NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]

[phishy]

I'm gonna try to do a full write-up on hand wiring a matrix since I've had so much trouble finding one.

[jdcarpe]

I'm gonna try to do a full write-up on hand wiring a matrix since I've had so much trouble finding one.

Hard-Wiring_How-To

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68818.msg1668916#msg1668916

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40567.0

* jdcarpe tries to be a good librarian. Go ahead, ask me a question!

[phishy]

I'm gonna try to do a full write-up on hand wiring a matrix since I've had so much trouble finding one.

Hard-Wiring_How-To

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68818.msg1668916#msg1668916

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40567.0

* jdcarpe tries to be a good librarian. Go ahead, ask me a question!

Haha thanks I wish I would have been able to find these before.  A simple google search only brings up really basic how tos with really no solid info.

[jdcarpe]

Haha thanks I wish I would have been able to find these before.  A simple google search only brings up really basic how tos with really no solid info.

Now with their own section in my stickied Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users!

[cmadrid]

We should sticky this

Not actually a bad idea.  I don't have the ability to do that though...

PM a mod?

I'm actually cleaning up all those stickies. But you made the list!

Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users!

Awesome, sticky index! Even better than individual posts.

[StinkyTheDonut]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

Well, I was really just hoping there would be some advice on how to cut corners on the plate and make it cheaper, and some persuasion tactics to make shops willing to make smaller volumes.
The rest was just me venting 'cause a lot happened in one day. Didn't expect to get help on everything here or I would have listed everything, and don't really think any of that is worth a thread anyway.
I do understand this is expensive, but I would think it's normal when somebody doesn't want to buy ten sets of something only to use one...

For some prototypes I was planning to do some stuff with a coping saw.  Once you get fancy machines involved the price is bound to go up.  Check with BBS directly.  They may be able to point you towards a material and process that can bring down costs for prototyping.

What price point are you trying to hit?

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

[phishy]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

Well, I was really just hoping there would be some advice on how to cut corners on the plate and make it cheaper, and some persuasion tactics to make shops willing to make smaller volumes.
The rest was just me venting 'cause a lot happened in one day. Didn't expect to get help on everything here or I would have listed everything, and don't really think any of that is worth a thread anyway.
I do understand this is expensive, but I would think it's normal when somebody doesn't want to buy ten sets of something only to use one...

For some prototypes I was planning to do some stuff with a coping saw.  Once you get fancy machines involved the price is bound to go up.  Check with BBS directly.  They may be able to point you towards a material and process that can bring down costs for prototyping.

What price point are you trying to hit?

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Are you in the states?  Are you just cutting a 60% plate?  Even for a 1 off it should only be around 90 bucks plus shipping.

[swill]

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Here is a basic idea of how the different switch shapes compare with each other in terms of cost to produce.  The numbers are only relational to each other, they do not reflect actual pricing of any kind...

[Dihedral]

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Just more evidance that cutout 4 is terrible

Here is a basic idea of how the different switch shapes compare with each other in terms of cost to produce.  The numbers are only relational to each other, they do not reflect actual pricing of any kind...

(Attachment Link)

[swill]

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Just more evidance that cutout 4 is terrible

Here is a basic idea of how the different switch shapes compare with each other in terms of cost to produce.  The numbers are only relational to each other, they do not reflect actual pricing of any kind...

(Attachment Link)

Ya. I removed it from the ui a while ago because of that. 

[jdcarpe]

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Just more evidance that cutout 4 is terrible

Here is a basic idea of how the different switch shapes compare with each other in terms of cost to produce.  The numbers are only relational to each other, they do not reflect actual pricing of any kind...

(Attachment Link)

Ya. I removed it from the ui a while ago because of that. 

It was just a design I played with when the GH60 Rev.A proto was made with those 90-degree rotated switches. I made some test plates, did some fit testing, and promptly recommended that no one use that design, ever.

[swill]

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Just more evidance that cutout 4 is terrible

Here is a basic idea of how the different switch shapes compare with each other in terms of cost to produce.  The numbers are only relational to each other, they do not reflect actual pricing of any kind...

(Attachment Link)

Ya. I removed it from the ui a while ago because of that. 

It was just a design I played with when the GH60 Rev.A proto was made with those 90-degree rotated switches. I made some test plates, did some fit testing, and promptly recommended that no one use that design, ever.

Haha. Ya. I have added the ability for the switch openings to be rotated, so its really not needed.

[tankfulloffoxes]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

[p3lim]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

Last time it was an error on the server, too many instances or something, probably still an issue.

[derezzed]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

I get that error when I try to make a case with screw holes and zero bezel or when the size of the screw holes exceeds the size of the bezel.  I was hoping to make a case with no bezel or possibly a plate that will fit a universal 60% case but I will have to figure out how and where to add the screw holes in LibreCAD after swill's plate builder generates the dxf.

[tankfulloffoxes]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

I get that error when I try to make a case with screw holes and zero bezel or when the size of the screw holes exceeds the size of the bezel.  I was hoping to make a case with no bezel or possibly a plate that will fit a universal 60% case but I will have to figure out how and where to add the screw holes in LibreCAD after swill's plate builder generates the dxf.

Tried that, making a plate with no housing, nothing special, all default and still got the error.  I don't know what is wrong, is anyone else having any problems just trying to make simple plates?

[swill]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

I will check it tonight. Yes. To many instances running is likely the cause. I will implement a cleanup job to clean up instances that are older than 2 hours to resolve this for good.

Thanks for matting me know.

[swill]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

I get that error when I try to make a case with screw holes and zero bezel or when the size of the screw holes exceeds the size of the bezel.  I was hoping to make a case with no bezel or possibly a plate that will fit a universal 60% case but I will have to figure out how and where to add the screw holes in LibreCAD after swill's plate builder generates the dxf.

What would you expect if you have a sandwich case with no bezel and screw holes specified?

You can use None for the case and still specify some padding if you want and then add the holes you want after. Will that solve your current problem?

[swill]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

I get that error when I try to make a case with screw holes and zero bezel or when the size of the screw holes exceeds the size of the bezel.  I was hoping to make a case with no bezel or possibly a plate that will fit a universal 60% case but I will have to figure out how and where to add the screw holes in LibreCAD after swill's plate builder generates the dxf.

Tried that, making a plate with no housing, nothing special, all default and still got the error.  I don't know what is wrong, is anyone else having any problems just trying to make simple plates?

Everyone will get errors till I fix it. I will fix it in a couple hours when I am out from under a baby.

[derezzed]

Everyone will get errors till I fix it. I will fix it in a couple hours when I am out from under a baby.

[tankfulloffoxes]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

I get that error when I try to make a case with screw holes and zero bezel or when the size of the screw holes exceeds the size of the bezel.  I was hoping to make a case with no bezel or possibly a plate that will fit a universal 60% case but I will have to figure out how and where to add the screw holes in LibreCAD after swill's plate builder generates the dxf.

Tried that, making a plate with no housing, nothing special, all default and still got the error.  I don't know what is wrong, is anyone else having any problems just trying to make simple plates?

Everyone will get errors till I fix it. I will fix it in a couple hours when I am out from under a baby.

Ha no hurry here.  It's more important for you to keep that baby happy than us   

[swill]

Everyone will get errors till I fix it. I will fix it in a couple hours when I am out from under a baby.

(Attachment Link)

Haha.  This gave me a little chuckle. 

[swill]

Everyone will get errors till I fix it. I will fix it in a couple hours when I am out from under a baby.

Ha no hurry here.  It's more important for you to keep that baby happy than us   

Alright, it should be fixed for now.  I will implement the cleanup this weekend so this does not happen again.  Thanks again for letting me know...

[phishy]

Hey swill, I noticed a few pages back somebody was having an issue with the error message "The build process has encountered the following error.  Internal Server Error".  I saw that you were also able to fix the problem.  However, I'm still getting that same error message with any layouts I try to generate a plate for.  I'm trying to do a custom plate, but I also tried using a tkl preset from keyboardlayouteditor, and it still isn't working.  I'm currently on a public computer since mine at home doesn't have internet, but I tried tethering with my phone as well, and it still wasn't working for me.  Here is the raw data for the custom layout.  Maybe it has something to do with the design? 

[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"","","","","","","","","","",{w2:1.25},""],
[{x:0.5,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:2.25},"",{x:1.25,w2:1.25},"",{x:0.25},"",{w2:1.25},""]

I get that error when I try to make a case with screw holes and zero bezel or when the size of the screw holes exceeds the size of the bezel.  I was hoping to make a case with no bezel or possibly a plate that will fit a universal 60% case but I will have to figure out how and where to add the screw holes in LibreCAD after swill's plate builder generates the dxf.

Tried that, making a plate with no housing, nothing special, all default and still got the error.  I don't know what is wrong, is anyone else having any problems just trying to make simple plates?

Everyone will get errors till I fix it. I will fix it in a couple hours when I am out from under a baby.

Nothing like waiting for babies bed-time.

[StinkyTheDonut]

Are you in the states?  Are you just cutting a 60% plate?  Even for a 1 off it should only be around 90 bucks plus shipping.

I'm in Canada, and I'm trying to make a full 108 case. I'm trying to keep the extra cost like shipping, import tax, conversion, etc to a minimal.
If things go well with my local shop, although it probably won't, I could at least skip out on shipping lol.

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Here is a basic idea of how the different switch shapes compare with each other in terms of cost to produce.  The numbers are only relational to each other, they do not reflect actual pricing of any kind...

(Attachment Link)

Thanks.
Maybe I'll ask them to get another quote for cutout 1 after they give me an actual number for cutout 2 just to see how much of a difference it makes.
This is a handy reference, maybe you should add it to the help box for the switch type.

[jarz]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

Well, I was really just hoping there would be some advice on how to cut corners on the plate and make it cheaper, and some persuasion tactics to make shops willing to make smaller volumes.
The rest was just me venting 'cause a lot happened in one day. Didn't expect to get help on everything here or I would have listed everything, and don't really think any of that is worth a thread anyway.
I do understand this is expensive, but I would think it's normal when somebody doesn't want to buy ten sets of something only to use one...

For some prototypes I was planning to do some stuff with a coping saw.  Once you get fancy machines involved the price is bound to go up.  Check with BBS directly.  They may be able to point you towards a material and process that can bring down costs for prototyping.

What price point are you trying to hit?

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Are you in the states?  Are you just cutting a 60% plate?  Even for a 1 off it should only be around 90 bucks plus shipping.

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

[phishy]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

Well, I was really just hoping there would be some advice on how to cut corners on the plate and make it cheaper, and some persuasion tactics to make shops willing to make smaller volumes.
The rest was just me venting 'cause a lot happened in one day. Didn't expect to get help on everything here or I would have listed everything, and don't really think any of that is worth a thread anyway.
I do understand this is expensive, but I would think it's normal when somebody doesn't want to buy ten sets of something only to use one...

For some prototypes I was planning to do some stuff with a coping saw.  Once you get fancy machines involved the price is bound to go up.  Check with BBS directly.  They may be able to point you towards a material and process that can bring down costs for prototyping.

What price point are you trying to hit?

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Are you in the states?  Are you just cutting a 60% plate?  Even for a 1 off it should only be around 90 bucks plus shipping.

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

Basically with BBS they have a baseline price of like 90 bucks for a 1 off.  I've loaded multiple designs and 1 offs all cost the same initial price.  To get the cost down you have to order more than 1 to offset the setup costs.

[jarz]

My project is getting buzzkilled left and right.
With the current state of Gon, I'm not sure I should space my plate for his PCB.

Anybody got some magic or wisdom for me? I feel like this is gonna end up dead in the water.

I'd start a separate thread from swill's to ask these questions in. Also, come to accept that this may not be a cheap solution or hobby.

Well, I was really just hoping there would be some advice on how to cut corners on the plate and make it cheaper, and some persuasion tactics to make shops willing to make smaller volumes.
The rest was just me venting 'cause a lot happened in one day. Didn't expect to get help on everything here or I would have listed everything, and don't really think any of that is worth a thread anyway.
I do understand this is expensive, but I would think it's normal when somebody doesn't want to buy ten sets of something only to use one...

For some prototypes I was planning to do some stuff with a coping saw.  Once you get fancy machines involved the price is bound to go up.  Check with BBS directly.  They may be able to point you towards a material and process that can bring down costs for prototyping.

What price point are you trying to hit?

Initially I was expecting 100ish for the plate. The shop even made a random ballpark of $50, which i doubted. At this point, it may hold true per piece lol. At the moment, I'm still waiting for the final quote.
I'll see how things turn out before I consider more manufacturing options. Maybe I should just become a vendor to sell my surplus lol.

Meanwhile I've been considering downgrading my plate to cutout 1. The good old squares.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of cuts are halved?

Are you in the states?  Are you just cutting a 60% plate?  Even for a 1 off it should only be around 90 bucks plus shipping.

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

Basically with BBS they have a baseline price of like 90 bucks for a 1 off.  I've loaded multiple designs and 1 offs all cost the same initial price.  To get the cost down you have to order more than 1 to offset the setup costs.

Yeah, the price drops significantly when you order more than 4 batches.  Which if you are just talking about the switch plate can come down to almost ~$25 per switch plate of aluminum.  Assuming ~$100 per batch discounted (4 60% plates with square holes in each batch).

It's definitely a lot cheaper if you can find 10-20 others who want to go in on it together.  I am new to this forum, are there many group buys for plates?

[jarz]

BTW, awesome job Swill.  The less time I have to spend in CAD the better.    

Now I just need to decide on the thickness of my sandwiched layers...

[heedpantsnow]

I'm going to get some universal ANSI 60% CF plates cut.  Don't want to go through the IC, GB process, etc.  But if anyone is interested send me a PM.

[StinkyTheDonut]

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

Do you mean having two sheets of metal on top of each other being cut at the same time?
or are you talking about lining the drawings up side by side closely, so more parts can be cut out of the same sheet?

[jarz]

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

Do you mean having two sheets of metal on top of each other being cut at the same time?
or are you talking about lining the drawings up side by side closely, so more parts can be cut out of the same sheet?

Yes, sorry the latter. Which is to say place the switch plate and the back plate in the same CAD file as close to each other as possible. It requires you to cut and paste from the two different CAD diagrams swill's nifty app generates.  The price I stated above had 4 plates lined up vertically.

[cmadrid]

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

Do you mean having two sheets of metal on top of each other being cut at the same time?
or are you talking about lining the drawings up side by side closely, so more parts can be cut out of the same sheet?

Yes, sorry the latter. Which is to say place the switch plate and the back plate in the same CAD file as close to each other as possible. It requires you to cut and paste from the two different CAD diagrams swill's nifty app generates.  The price I stated above had 4 plates lined up vertically.

Brilliant!  I wonder how much you could get a sandwich case + plate group buy going for with that method.

[derezzed]

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

Do you mean having two sheets of metal on top of each other being cut at the same time?
or are you talking about lining the drawings up side by side closely, so more parts can be cut out of the same sheet?

Yes, sorry the latter. Which is to say place the switch plate and the back plate in the same CAD file as close to each other as possible. It requires you to cut and paste from the two different CAD diagrams swill's nifty app generates.  The price I stated above had 4 plates lined up vertically.

Brilliant!  I wonder how much you could get a sandwich case + plate group buy going for with that method.

F***ing brilliant!  Is 1.5 mm thick enough for a bottom plate?  Maybe it's best to double up the same layers and get 2 switch plates at 1.5 mm and 2 bottom plates at 3 or 4 mm.  What are ideal thicknesses for switch plates and bottom plates?

[swill]

If you stack your plates close enough together in CAD you can essentially get two switch plates and two back plates for the same price or within a couple dollars of each other (~$95 US).  At least with blue saw it seems like you can.  Make sure you use as much of the base material as you can.

Do you mean having two sheets of metal on top of each other being cut at the same time?
or are you talking about lining the drawings up side by side closely, so more parts can be cut out of the same sheet?

Yes, sorry the latter. Which is to say place the switch plate and the back plate in the same CAD file as close to each other as possible. It requires you to cut and paste from the two different CAD diagrams swill's nifty app generates.  The price I stated above had 4 plates lined up vertically.

Brilliant!  I wonder how much you could get a sandwich case + plate group buy going for with that method.

F***ing brilliant!  Is 1.5 mm thick enough for a bottom plate?  Maybe it's best to double up the same layers and get 2 switch plates at 1.5 mm and 2 bottom plates at 3 or 4 mm.  What are ideal thicknesses for switch plates and bottom plates?

You need the switch plate to be 1.5-1.6mm thick if you want the switches to clip in.

The case I am having cut right now has 1.5mm top and 3mm bottom. I got all my holes cut small and I will thread (tap) them to the correct size. I will be bolting all of my layers together without nuts on the bottom.

[derezzed]

I'm experimenting with different combinations of multi-plate layouts.  So far, the most cost-effective layout I've found is 2 plates.  I'm currently trying 3 plates stacked vertically with 1 plate rotated 90 degrees next to the 3 plates.  In LibreCAD, the plates do not appear to overlap.  When I upload to Big Blue Saw, the 90 degree rotated plate is not rotated and overlaps two of the other plates.  Does anyone have any suggestions? 

[swill]

I'm experimenting with different combinations of multi-plate layouts.  So far, the most cost-effective layout I've found is 2 plates.  I'm currently trying 3 plates stacked vertically with 1 plate rotated 90 degrees next to the 3 plates.  In LibreCAD, the plates do not appear to overlap.  When I upload to Big Blue Saw, the 90 degree rotated plate is not rotated and overlaps two of the other plates.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

post pictures, i can't visualize what you are saying. 

[derezzed]

I'm experimenting with different combinations of multi-plate layouts.  So far, the most cost-effective layout I've found is 2 plates.  I'm currently trying 3 plates stacked vertically with 1 plate rotated 90 degrees next to the 3 plates.  In LibreCAD, the plates do not appear to overlap.  When I upload to Big Blue Saw, the 90 degree rotated plate is not rotated and overlaps two of the other plates.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

post pictures, i can't visualize what you are saying. 

What I see in LibreCAD:


What BBS sees:


What I see in LibreCAD:


What BBS sees:

[StinkyTheDonut]

I just got my quote for all the parts in 18ga stainless steel. Not that I even asked for all the layers in steel.
I assume the cutters know to arrange everything on the same sheet of material since all the drawings were submitted together.
It seems I was able to get quoted for one offs lol

108 cutout 2 costar only top plate is $159.86 CAD.
both the open and closed layers are $96.09 each
the bottom layer is $95.62.
I hope not making the other layers doesn't affect the top plate's price too much...
The top plate is noted that "part may not be perfectly flat". Is this warping normal?

Meanwhile, gonna wait for plastic quote. Maybe the shop forgot to submit it...
Also gonna revise my design for a teensy++2.0. Gonna give up my idea of using Gon's pcb. With the state he and his board is in, I don't want to think about it anymore.
Just want to know, how much thickness do I need to fit a teensy? Not even sure how to orient it for the usb.

[derezzed]

I just got my quote for all the parts in 18ga stainless steel. Not that I even asked for all the layers in steel.
I assume the cutters know to arrange everything on the same sheet of material since all the drawings were submitted together.
It seems I was able to get quoted for one offs lol

108 cutout 2 costar only top plate is $159.86 CAD.
both the open and closed layers are $96.09 each
the bottom layer is $95.62.
I hope not making the other layers doesn't affect the top plate's price too much...
The top plate is noted that "part may not be perfectly flat". Is this warping normal?

Meanwhile, gonna wait for plastic quote. Maybe the shop forgot to submit it...
Also gonna revise my design for a teensy++2.0. Gonna give up my idea of using Gon's pcb. With the state he and his board is in, I don't want to think about it anymore.
Just want to know, how much thickness do I need to fit a teensy? Not even sure how to orient it for the usb.

I wondered about that too.  Am I SOL if the plates get bent during shipping?  How well does BBS package their products and has anyone ever received a bent plate from BBS?  Also wondering about ideal thickness for a case.  What about a case that is hand-wired?  And regarding switch cutouts -- I've seen someone suggest gluing switches to the switch plate for hand-wired boards to keep the switches from getting pulled out of the plate when keycaps are removed.  Is this necessary?  If I use the recommended switch cutout that allows switches to be opened, will putting a dab of epoxy on the top or bottom of the switch (on the underside of the plate) prevent me from opening the switch when it's in the plate?

[swill]

I'm experimenting with different combinations of multi-plate layouts.  So far, the most cost-effective layout I've found is 2 plates.  I'm currently trying 3 plates stacked vertically with 1 plate rotated 90 degrees next to the 3 plates.  In LibreCAD, the plates do not appear to overlap.  When I upload to Big Blue Saw, the 90 degree rotated plate is not rotated and overlaps two of the other plates.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

post pictures, i can't visualize what you are saying. 

What I see in LibreCAD:
(Attachment Link)

What BBS sees:
(Attachment Link)

What I see in LibreCAD:
(Attachment Link)

What BBS sees:
(Attachment Link)

Not sure.  How are you rotating and flipping the parts?  Apparently the way you are doing it is getting undone when you submit it.

[derezzed]

I'm experimenting with different combinations of multi-plate layouts.  So far, the most cost-effective layout I've found is 2 plates.  I'm currently trying 3 plates stacked vertically with 1 plate rotated 90 degrees next to the 3 plates.  In LibreCAD, the plates do not appear to overlap.  When I upload to Big Blue Saw, the 90 degree rotated plate is not rotated and overlaps two of the other plates.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

post pictures, i can't visualize what you are saying. 

What I see in LibreCAD:
(Attachment Link)

What BBS sees:
(Attachment Link)

What I see in LibreCAD:
(Attachment Link)

What BBS sees:
(Attachment Link)

Not sure.  How are you rotating and flipping the parts?  Apparently the way you are doing it is getting undone when you submit it.

click shape to select it > Modify > Rotate > Continue button > set red marker > click mouse > set angle of rotation in dialog box and click OK. 

click shape to select it > Modify > Move/Copy > set red marker > move shape to desired location and click mouse. 

Save as dxf 2007.

[derezzed]

I don't know how Big Blue Saw's application is rotating my plates.  The history has to exist somewhere in the file.  Figuring out that issue could really help save on cutting multiple open layers for cases.   But more importantly, I've been experimenting with various numbers of plates in a single dxf file in LibreCAD.  I used my custom 60% keyboard design with swill's recommended switch cutout and 6 screw holes.  Obviously, costs will rise for larger boards or might decrease for a standard 60% layout.  Here are my findings.

Big Blue Saw's quoted prices (generated 3/12/2015) for custom 60% keyboard plates, cut with standard water jet and raw finish:

1 1.5 mm stainless T-304 switch plates for $92.10 = $92.10 per unit
1 3 mm stainless T-304 bottom plates for $92.80 = $92.80 per unit
total = $184.90

2 1.5 mm stainless T-304 switch plates for $122.70 = $61.35 per unit
2 3 mm stainless T-304 bottom plates for $102.30 = $51.15 per unit
total = $225

3 1.5 mm stainless T-304 switch plates for $164.30 = $54.77 per unit   
3 3 mm stainless T-304 bottom plates for $111.90 = $37.30 per unit
total = $276.20


4 1.5 mm stainless T-304 switch plates for $205.90 = $51.48 per unit   
4 3 mm stainless T-304 bottom plates for $121.40 = $30.35 per unit
total = $327.30

6 1.5 mm stainless T-304 switch plates for $289.20  = $48.21 per unit
6 3 mm stainless T-304 bottom plates for $140.40 = $23.40 per unit
total = $429.60



8 3 mm stainless T-304 bottom plates for $168.80 = $21.10 per unit

A file with 8 switch plates was 1.3MB, which is too large for BBS's website to handle.

Prices listed are per set.  That means if you order 5 sets of plates, you get to the next price tier and the price drops even further --  $43.63 per unit for 20 switch plates versus $51.48 per unit for 4 switch plates, and $42.97 per unit for 30 switch plates versus $48.21 per unit for 6 switch plates.

You can see diminishing returns quickly set in for my experiment but it is still obvious that, if you can find 1 or more other people to buy plates, the price quickly approaches impulse buy territory.   

[BigBlueSaw]

I don't know how Big Blue Saw's application is rotating my plates.

E-mail me the files so I can figure out what's going on.

[BigBlueSaw]

This may be relevant, an article on nesting for the best price which I just put up on the website this week:
https://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw-blog/general-updates/nesting-files-for-optimum-pricing-with-big-blue-saw.html

And here's the other secret for getting good prices, which I think you've already discovered:
http://www.bigbluesaw.com/saw/big-blue-saw-blog/general-updates/the-best-tip-for-saving-money-with-big-blue-saw.html

[evangs]

I'm getting an internal server error trying to generate a plate.

[BigBlueSaw]

The site looks OK at the moment. E-mail me the file and I'll take a look
info@bigbluesaw.com

[evangs]

The site looks OK at the moment. E-mail me the file and I'll take a look
info@bigbluesaw.com

ahh I was referencing Swill's Plate building tool http://builder.swillkb.com/

[swill]

The site looks OK at the moment. E-mail me the file and I'll take a look
info@bigbluesaw.com

ahh I was referencing Swill's Plate building tool http://builder.swillkb.com/

Sorry, fixed...

[evangs]

The site looks OK at the moment. E-mail me the file and I'll take a look
info@bigbluesaw.com

ahh I was referencing Swill's Plate building tool http://builder.swillkb.com/

Sorry, fixed...

thanks! love the tool btw.