Author Topic: SP-SA Carbon Round 2  (Read 77976 times)

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Offline zslane

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 01 June 2017, 14:43:16 »
Engaging the community is not a process that lasts forever. Nor is every bit of feedback going to be found in the final product. Once a keyset is out of the IC phase, the time for offering feedback (and complaining that you aren't getting the kits you want at the price that suits you) is over. At that point, the designer has to step back and just let the GB run its course, having made all he decisions that are going to be made, knowing full well that some folks will be disappointed.

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote." --Kosh Naranek

Offline OracleKev

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 01 June 2017, 15:23:05 »
Engaging the community is not a process that lasts forever. Nor is every bit of feedback going to be found in the final product. Once a keyset is out of the IC phase, the time for offering feedback (and complaining that you aren't getting the kits you want at the price that suits you) is over. At that point, the designer has to step back and just let the GB run its course, having made all he decisions that are going to be made, knowing full well that some folks will be disappointed.

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote." --Kosh Naranek

Fair on the process and that everyone can't be satisfied.

I've done my part in raising awareness with the unsatisfactory IC phase and hand-wavy/lack of responses.
So, I'm willing to give this a rest if name calling and bodyguarding stop.

I want to note that this is not just me speaking out.  Multiple members indicated offline their feedback was ignored.
I just happen to be the guy [with 2 posts as of yesterday, so what] channeling / aggregating them.

Offline zslane

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 01 June 2017, 15:36:11 »
Why are people feeling ignored? Assuming they realize that:

1. Not every concern or "gripe" that is heard and considered will affect the final product.

2. Not every concern or "gripe" is going to elicit a direct response in a forum IC thread.

And there is a logical fallacy that lends false weight to an opinion just because many people have expressed it. Chances are a suggestion or idea was rejected for valid reasons, and since those reasons have not become invalid the suggestion or idea continues to get rejected no matter how many people (continually) offer it up.

BTW, I've found that if designers aren't making the sets you'd like to see (particularly with regard to kit composition), then a highly effective solution is to design sets yourself and solve the problem directly and decisively.

Offline blighty

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 01 June 2017, 22:10:49 »
Is the rolling bones kit the only kit with a beige on grey R4 1.5U novelty key?  I'm looking for something to use for a bottom row 1.5U function key that matches the bone mods. 
LZ ergo (MX silent red) | JER - A06 (MX silent black-red springs) | Duck Lightsaver V2 (MX red) | Duck Octagon V2 (gateron clear) (lifted pads) | Duck Orion V2 (gateron red) | TKC 1800 (gateron silent reds) | Mistel MD770 (MX red with GMK silencing clips) | Realforce R2TSLA-US4-IV | Realforce R2TLSA-US4-BK | TX 75 (gateron clear) | KBDFANS 75 ("vintage" MX blues) | Kinesis Freestyle Pro (MX red) | MS Surface Ergonomic | MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL (MX black) | Phantom (Filco case) ("vintage" MX blacks | Spr1t 75% PCB x 2 (MX black and gateron clear) | Cherry G80-1865 (MX browns with black springs)

Offline a_ak57

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 07:51:33 »
I don't really understand getting upset about kit setup at this point.  There was an IC that was a few months long, so there was plenty of time to argue with t0mb3ry about kit setups and gather support to prove your side right or whatever.  It's not like this is Originative and their sudden preorders (for Penumbra and such) where there is zero chance for community feedback before the chance to purchase, nor did t0m refuse to listen to any requests.


If there's any complaint it'd be about the lead time since we were originally given a different impression on how long that'd be, but I personally don't mind too much since I like this set enough I'll deal with it.

Offline OracleKev

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 09:20:40 »
Let me just throw in another reference of comparison
/dev/tty https://www.massdrop.com/buy/37451

Look at the kit structure--gradual ramp for layout changes
Changes were accommodated in the course of the drop
Listen to the tone of the discussion

That's it.  Pls see me as a messenger, don't shoot!

Offline zslane

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 11:07:33 »
I look forward to the day when there emerges a perfect way to run an IC, a perfect way to arrange kits, and a perfect way to run the group buy.

Offline Arallu

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 11:10:06 »
All in for all the Bones! They'll make a nice pairing with Oblivion :thumb:

Offline ChitownM2

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 13:14:52 »
Let me just throw in another reference of comparison
/dev/tty https://www.massdrop.com/buy/37451

Look at the kit structure--gradual ramp for layout changes
Changes were accommodated in the course of the drop
Listen to the tone of the discussion

That's it.  Pls see me as a messenger, don't shoot!

Changes were accommodated during the drop because of the structure and circumstances of that specific drop. That was a completely new profile and is using a different manufacturer. The molds for that set don't even exist yet so the lead time on what is going to be produced is greater. For SA carbon, they have already locked in the pricing for the current kits and need to submit the order to get into the queue or my guess is they risk losing their production slot.

Offline chuckdee

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 13:47:17 »
I look forward to the day when there emerges a perfect way to run an IC, a perfect way to arrange kits, and a perfect way to run the group buy.

There isn't.  And even if one was found... people would complain.  :))

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 16:21:07 »
Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:



Offline bciamny

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 16:56:13 »
Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


do you happen to know if the drop will occur before the end of the carbon drop?

Offline ChitownM2

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 17:19:21 »
Spacebar looks amazing. I'll definitely be in for that.

On another note, how common is the 2-3-4-4 profile that carbon uses?  Seems like every other SA sweet uses 2-3-4-3.

Offline Arallu

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 17:21:02 »
Spacebar looks amazing. I'll definitely be in for that.

On another note, how common is the 2-3-4-4 profile that carbon uses?  Seems like every other SA sweet uses 2-3-4-3.

Both are pretty popular: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5q4ua5/sa_keysets_and_their_profiles/

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 18:13:53 »
Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


do you happen to know if the drop will occur before the end of the carbon drop?

Dont have any data on this right now. I asume it may start during Carbon drop or after.

Offline a_ak57

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 20:42:04 »
Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Matching artisan spacebar, that's pretty neat, I----

Quote
there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Quote
SA Spacebars for topre




As if I needed to be more excited about this set.
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 June 2017, 20:45:24 by a_ak57 »

Offline bun

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 23:29:42 »
Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


WANT!

Offline khairolnizam

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 00:21:27 »
Yes for the hammer spacebar!!!!

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk


Offline xantiema

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #68 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 13:18:44 »
Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


Will it be made from perfect same color, and can you tell me what that layer ontop of the spacebar is on the rendering? Some sort of see-through plastic? Or is that just for the rendering and not on the key itself

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #69 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 15:01:15 »
Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


Will it be made from perfect same color, and can you tell me what that layer ontop of the spacebar is on the rendering? Some sort of see-through plastic? Or is that just for the rendering and not on the key itself

The colors will be matched to Carbon colors. The top layer will transparent like displayed below:
https://instagram.com/p/BNdid5XB6PA/

Offline Arallu

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #70 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 15:39:33 »
New update to order counts, lots of kits dopped in price (Rolling Bones for 49!) just need a few more Bones mods/numpads too
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 June 2017, 16:44:19 by Arallu »

Offline xantiema

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #71 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 18:50:35 »
Interesting to hear more about this artisan spacebar - I wonder if it'll be cold to the touch compared to key caps

Offline superpiya

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 02:04:15 »
I have questions regarding the Blank Alphas. Per kit, we only receive 5 keycaps for each profile (R1-R2-R3-R4) with an extra R3 as Homing Key.

If I want to cover my alphas with Blank Alphas, I have to purchase three kits? Because R1 and R2 need at least 12 keycaps.

Why not make 6 keycaps for R1 and R2, 5 keycaps for R3 and R4, plus extra R3 Homing Key per kit?

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 02:28:18 »
I have questions regarding the Blank Alphas. Per kit, we only receive 5 keycaps for each profile (R1-R2-R3-R4) with an extra R3 as Homing Key.

If I want to cover my alphas with Blank Alphas, I have to purchase three kits? Because R1 and R2 need at least 12 keycaps.

Why not make 6 keycaps for R1 and R2, 5 keycaps for R3 and R4, plus extra R3 Homing Key per kit?

Hmm you are right. I will note this for the next possible drop. Keep in mind once drop have started i do no changes. For the time beign i'd like to suggest to use lambda keys or if possible to order some blancks from Pimp my Keyboard store (afaik they do sell blancks). The color code for alphas is WBO.

Offline kikan

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #74 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 07:47:19 »
I have questions regarding the Blank Alphas. Per kit, we only receive 5 keycaps for each profile (R1-R2-R3-R4) with an extra R3 as Homing Key.

If I want to cover my alphas with Blank Alphas, I have to purchase three kits? Because R1 and R2 need at least 12 keycaps.

Why not make 6 keycaps for R1 and R2, 5 keycaps for R3 and R4, plus extra R3 Homing Key per kit?

Hmm you are right. I will note this for the next possible drop. Keep in mind once drop have started i do no changes. For the time beign i'd like to suggest to use lambda keys or if possible to order some blancks from Pimp my Keyboard store (afaik they do sell blancks). The color code for alphas is WBO.

Hi guys,

When I asked T0mb3ry about blanks alpha, it was for the Ergodox layout, so this might explain that ;-)

G


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Offline dsaf

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #75 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 09:12:32 »

Given the numbers, would you consider a follow-up honeycomb novelty kit drop in 1-2 months with a further delivery date?


Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 12:51:44 »

Given the numbers, would you consider a follow-up honeycomb novelty kit drop in 1-2 months with a further delivery date?

Show Image


Sorry i have no plans for follow-up drops. Also i've already discarded the idea of graphene mods.

Offline xantiema

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 05 June 2017, 17:37:46 »
Any reason there is no Honey Comb ISO Enter-key? Seems like we are missing out again on some perfect design :/

Offline dead_pixel_design

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #78 on: Tue, 06 June 2017, 00:52:55 »
Are we going to see a R2 for GMK Carbon?

Offline ChitownM2

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #79 on: Tue, 06 June 2017, 06:46:56 »
Are we going to see a R2 for GMK Carbon?

Believe it was stated in the IC thread the answer is yes. Probably not until next year though

Offline Theconejo

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 06 June 2017, 18:10:55 »
heads up to anyone not paying attention, drop was extended until june 29, and pushed back until april 5th

Offline a_ak57

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 06 June 2017, 20:57:40 »
Wow, almost a month for the drop?  I guess that's good for people who wouldn't have the money in time, but not thrilled that this probably pushes back the other MD keycap drops.

Offline ChitownM2

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 06 June 2017, 21:10:26 »
heads up to anyone not paying attention, drop was extended until june 29, and pushed back until april 5th

Yes, I loved how they specifically stated that extending the drop (by two weeks) wouldn't delay the shipping date...and then within minutes they updated the shipping date to two weeks later.  It's good for people who don't have the cash right now, but in the end it's going to result in very few extra sales. Nearly everyone in these keycap drops buys in the first 4 or 5 days or in the last 24 hours. All of the days in between are super slow with single digit increases in the # of kits sold.

Offline dsaf

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 07 June 2017, 07:13:22 »
They also hinted it might take more than usual two years until the next drop. Thus making the quest for R2 perfection ever more important henceforth justifying top-up kit drops  ;).

Offline bciamny

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #84 on: Wed, 07 June 2017, 18:35:38 »
heads up to anyone not paying attention, drop was extended until june 29, and pushed back until april 5th

Yes, I loved how they specifically stated that extending the drop (by two weeks) wouldn't delay the shipping date...and then within minutes they updated the shipping date to two weeks later.  It's good for people who don't have the cash right now, but in the end it's going to result in very few extra sales. Nearly everyone in these keycap drops buys in the first 4 or 5 days or in the last 24 hours. All of the days in between are super slow with single digit increases in the # of kits sold.

kunal said that ship date push back was inadvertent and that the original ship date is still the target. so it seems like everyone wins here :)

Offline superpiya

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 08 June 2017, 02:16:48 »
Quick question for the Hammer SA artisan spacebar.

I know the 6u (Topre) is centered stem, but is the 6u (Cherry MX) centered stem or offset stem?

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 08 June 2017, 10:52:06 »
Quick question for the Hammer SA artisan spacebar.

I know the 6u (Topre) is centered stem, but is the 6u (Cherry MX) centered stem or offset stem?

Unfortunately the 6u spacebar is available only for topre. The mx spacebar was just an error.

Offline superpiya

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #87 on: Fri, 09 June 2017, 03:36:33 »
Quick question for the Hammer SA artisan spacebar.

I know the 6u (Topre) is centered stem, but is the 6u (Cherry MX) centered stem or offset stem?

Unfortunately the 6u spacebar is available only for topre. The mx spacebar was just an error.

Yes, I've made up my mind when I saw the 'Sold Out' on 6u (Cherry MX) spacebar. Joined the drop for both 6u and 6.25u  :thumb:

Offline Marvellion

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #88 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 07:21:30 »
Hey T0mb3ry, could you do anything about Warning Kits being sold out? Its a pathetic move tbh.

Offline xantiema

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 07:47:13 »
Hey T0mb3ry, could you do anything about Warning Kits being sold out? Its a pathetic move tbh.

It isn't sold out, but the price for everyone else will increase soon, whilst the other gets it for 13$.

This is making me consider dropping the set entirely.

You don't leave a mistake there since Day 1, Extend the drop so people can get another paycheck and then in the middle of the drop (weeks in) decide WITHOUT any warning, that you'll remove instantaneously and shaft the customer.

Guess GMK Laser will have an increased budget from me, unless this decision is either reverted (everyone pays the same), or entirely dishonored (everyone pays legitimate price).

Offline Marvellion

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #90 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 09:46:07 »
Hey T0mb3ry, could you do anything about Warning Kits being sold out? Its a pathetic move tbh.

It isn't sold out, but the price for everyone else will increase soon, whilst the other gets it for 13$.

This is making me consider dropping the set entirely.

You don't leave a mistake there since Day 1, Extend the drop so people can get another paycheck and then in the middle of the drop (weeks in) decide WITHOUT any warning, that you'll remove instantaneously and shaft the customer.

Guess GMK Laser will have an increased budget from me, unless this decision is either reverted (everyone pays the same), or entirely dishonored (everyone pays legitimate price).

Thats what I plan to do too, I could get Laser novelties. It would be %100 fine to change the price at the start, I'm even fine with a notice 1 day before changing it. But they waited for it to hit 1k then instantly told people to p**s off.

Offline xantiema

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 09:53:24 »
Yep, sad they pull this type of shenanigans on a T0mb3ry drop, wanted to support the awesome design, but ultimately my total budget remains the same, just spent differently.

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #92 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 18:36:45 »
Warning signs are available again. Just check the drop page again. There are now 4 warning signs kits. It took some time to work out the pricings for the new kits and it was not intentional to exasperate you in this regard. I hope you can understand.

Offline xantiema

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #93 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 18:54:38 »
Warning signs are available again. Just check the drop page again. There are now 4 warning signs kits. It took some time to work out the pricings for the new kits and it was not intentional to exasperate you in this regard. I hope you can understand.

It is nice to see that they'll be available for people that ultimate were late to the drop, however pulling them away from people without a warning is bad business. People who were there from day 1 should've had them at the original pricing with a 12hour warning or so. Ultimately isn't their fault for waiting in an unlimited and extended drop. This is a mess created by MD and their silence over weeks. Man up for their mistakes is all I say.

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #94 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 19:23:23 »
Man up for their mistakes is all I say.

That is basically what they did. Mistakes happen, this one was handled well.
<- My Collection (so far)

Offline chuckdee

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #95 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 20:44:32 »
Agreed.  They kept the pricing for those whom had already joined (which was a big hit that they shared with SP) and are putting them back up with corrected pricing.  Your '12-hour window' would have resulted in a rush at the wrong prices.

Offline potatowire

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #96 on: Mon, 26 June 2017, 13:31:11 »
If there are any Vim fans here, with T0mb3ry's support, I am doing a small sale of Carbon Vimcaps on my site. I don't want to hijack this thread, but I've got one here, if you have any questions.

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 30 June 2017, 02:34:27 »
This month was very long :) Guess never had two drops in the rows.

Anyway thanks everybody for participation. And i am glad round 2 could set up new records again. Summing up all sold kits on spreadsheet and adding taobao orders - SP SA Carbon R2 sold more than 18320 kit units, which is really impressive :)

Thank you!

Offline potatowire

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 30 June 2017, 07:13:07 »
Very, very impressive! That is amazing!

Offline drakeonyou

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Re: SP-SA Carbon Round 2
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 30 June 2017, 12:30:08 »
Summing up all sold kits on spreadsheet and adding taobao orders - SP SA Carbon R2 sold more than 18320 kit units, which is really impressive :)

Thank you!

[/quote

I can hardly remember the cries of the people who said that this is too expensive.