[IC] DCS Solarized Dark - Starts 11/11 - Pricing is Live (for all vendors)

[ahpeace112]

Yes

[Starston3]

Any possibility that two 1.5u #! would be added for those that use mac/*nix and tsagan bottom row?

[Ensaum]

i haven't found a switch i don't like with DCS yet

So, I picked up a set of DCS wob from pmk and.. it's not for me

I really gave it a chance across 3 very different setups, but I just couldn't get into it. Way to harsh and metallic sounding and I don't like the texture. I'm extremely disappointed because I really wanted to like this profile with all the sets coming out, but oh well. Glad I tried it out first I guess.

[konstantin]

I have updated the kitting images as well as provided some notes on the changes.  I would love to get feedback, and I will also be posting a new IC form in the next few days about these kits.

I have some feedback on the new kits. Since the new IC form isn't up yet, I'll post my thoughts here.

:Base Kit

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First off, I'm glad to see that R2 1.5u Delete is gone and that you've kept some of the #! keys. 😄

Your base kit still seems to be missing R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn keys for 65% boards, though. This is bad, because 65% is a popular layout, and R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn are statistically among the most popular keys for that layout (see this breakdown).
In theory, there are a lot more users who need these 2 keys than there are users who need the 6 keys for ISO-UK, which you chose to include after all. Details:

More

According to the results of the last MK Megasurvey (conducted in March 2020), some 489 out of 1899 participants, or 25.75%, said that 65% was their preferred layout. Combining this with the right column stats from QMK gives us a number of around 12.4% of all users who use R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn. Compare this to only 2.6% for ISO-UK.
Obviously, these stats aren't exact, and user preferences will have changed since March 2020, but I would argue that 65% layouts could only have grown in popularity since then due to so many new 65% boards being released during that time (both entry-level as well as high-end).

That being said, even if you keep the UK keys (which is totally cool and would be appreciated by UK buyers), it would still be great to see R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn included.
An alternative option would be to add R3 Prev, R4 Next, which are more generic alternatives that cover a few other use cases in addition to 65%. However, I'm not sure if SP has the molds for those in DCS; only SA is confirmed.

Regarding R2 1.75u Backspace, R3 1.25u Tab, R3 1.5u Enter (aka. 3-key 40s support):
The consensus in the 40% community is that including this kind of support in the base kit only makes sense for GMK sets, due to how GMK's pricing structure works. The idea is that if you include these 3 keys in base, you don't need to run a separate 40% kit (which is unlikely to meet MOQ with GMK pricing). However, with other profiles/manus, there are no benefits to having these keys in base vs the 40% kit. Therefore, you are advised to move these keys to the 40% kit.

:Whitespace (Spacebars)

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You don't need a second copy of 1u and 2u space in this kit. Those keys can be removed, keeping only one instance of each.

Generally speaking, spacekeys for 40% layouts and spacekeys for larger layouts should not be combined/mixed. It's almost always a bad idea to force 40% users to also have to buy a spacebars kit. Just put the spaces needed for 40% boards in the 40% kit. There are no drawbacks to doing this, especially with SP's pricing structure.

:Ortho + Expanded40s

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As previously mentioned, R2 1.75u Backspace, R3 1.25u Tab, R3 1.5u Enter should be moved from base to this kit, and the following spacekeys should be added: 2× 1u, 2× 2u, 2.25u, 2.75u.

The R3 1.25u Code key should be changed to the same grayish legend color as the other R3 keys.
Additionally, a R3 1u Code key should be added to the kit, because a lot of 40% users prefer to put something other than Tab on the left side of R3 (the aforementioned 1.25u Code is included in the kit for the same reason).
One more consideration regarding these two multipurpose keys is that you may want to use something other than Code as their legend, because you're already using Code for the OS keys in the base kit. Meta or Super could work.

:NorDe++

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This kit is missing a R3 \| key for US ISO and generic ISO support.

I also find it odd that you named this kit “NorDe+++” and included keys for Estonian, as well as Ñ (which on its own is pretty useless for covering Spanish layouts), but didn't include keys for Icelandic and Faroese, which are “truer” NorDe layouts.

:Accents

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This is a very minor thing, but the Esc and ISO Enter keys should be moved to the correct rows in the kit render: ISO Enter spans R2–R3, not R1–R3 as is currently shown.

:VIM Arrows

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Another labeling detail. These should be R3, not R1.


I think that just about covers everything that caught my eye with the new kitting. Happy to hear your thoughts!


Edit: additional notes/suggestions

[DrHigsby]

Hey there, great lookin set!

I wanted to offer a comment about your inclusion of R2 1.75u Backspace, R3 1.25u Tab, and R3 1.5u Enter (3-key 40s support). This solution is intended to be a base kit solution only.

The purpose of the 3-key solution is to increase support for 40% keyboards in the base kit without needing or requiring a child kit purchase. The 3-key solution is also a compromise, first and foremost. It's the answer to the question, "What are the least number of keys 40s users would need for physical coverage that covers the largest swath of 40s boards possible." This solution affords 40s users physical compatibility for 12u, 13u, and 12.75u wide keyboards (Such as Prime_e, Daisy, Oceaongrapher, etc).

However, since you are offering a 40s child kit, those three aforementioned keys belong in the 40s kit and not the base kit, in my opinion.

GLWIC!

[Aiwanei]

I have updated the kitting images as well as provided some notes on the changes.  I would love to get feedback, and I will also be posting a new IC form in the next few days about these kits.

I have some feedback on the new kits. Since the new IC form isn't up yet, I'll post my thoughts here.

:Base Kit

Show Image

First off, I'm glad to see that R2 1.5u Delete is gone and that you've kept some of the #! keys. 😄

Your base kit still seems to be missing R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn keys for 65% boards, though. This is bad, because 65% is a popular layout, and R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn are statistically among the most popular keys for that layout (see this breakdown).
In theory, there are a lot more users who need these 2 keys than there are users who need the 6 keys for ISO-UK, which you chose to include after all. Details:

More

According to the results of the last MK Megasurvey (conducted in March 2020), some 489 out of 1899 participants, or 25.75%, said that 65% was their preferred layout. Combining this with the right column stats from QMK gives us a number of around 12.4% of all users who use R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn. Compare this to only 2.6% for ISO-UK.
Obviously, these stats aren't exact, and user preferences will have changed since March 2020, but I would argue that 65% layouts could only have grown in popularity since then due to so many new 65% boards being released during that time (both entry-level as well as high-end).

That being said, even if you keep the UK keys (which is totally cool and would be appreciated by UK buyers), it would still be great to see R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn included.
An alternative option would be to add R3 Prev, R4 Next, which are more generic alternatives that cover a few other use cases in addition to 65%. However, I'm not sure if SP has the molds for those in DCS; only SA is confirmed.

Regarding R2 1.75u Backspace, R3 1.25u Tab, R3 1.5u Enter (aka. 3-key 40s support):
The consensus in the 40% community is that including this kind of support in the base kit only makes sense for GMK sets, due to how GMK's pricing structure works. The idea is that if you include these 3 keys in base, you don't need to run a separate 40% kit (which is unlikely to meet MOQ with GMK pricing). However, with other profiles/manus, there are no benefits to having these keys in base vs the 40% kit. Therefore, you are advised to move these keys to the 40% kit.

:Whitespace (Spacebars)

Show Image

You don't need a second copy of 1u and 2u space in this kit. Those keys can be removed, keeping only one instance of each.

Generally speaking, spacekeys for 40% layouts and spacekeys for larger layouts should not be combined/mixed. It's almost always a bad idea to force 40% users to also have to buy a spacebars kit. Just put the spaces needed for 40% boards in the 40% kit. There are no drawbacks to doing this, especially with SP's pricing structure.

:Ortho + Expanded40s

Show Image

As previously mentioned, R2 1.75u Backspace, R3 1.25u Tab, R3 1.5u Enter should be moved from base to this kit, and the following spacekeys should be added: 2× 1u, 2× 2u, 2.25u, 2.75u.

The R3 1.25u Code key should be changed to the same grayish legend color as the other R3 keys.
Additionally, a R3 1u Code key should be added to the kit, because a lot of 40% users prefer to put something other than Tab on the left side of R3 (the aforementioned 1.25u Code is included in the kit for the same reason).
One more consideration regarding these two multipurpose keys is that you may want to use something other than Code as their legend, because you're already using Code for the OS keys in the base kit. Meta or Super could work.

:NorDe++

Show Image

This kit is missing a R3 \| key for US ISO and generic ISO support.

I also find it odd that you named this kit “NorDe+++” and included keys for Estonian, as well as Ñ (which on its own is pretty useless for covering Spanish layouts), but didn't include keys for Icelandic and Faroese, which are “truer” NorDe layouts.

:Accents

Show Image

This is a very minor thing, but the Esc and ISO Enter keys should be moved to the correct rows in the kit render: ISO Enter spans R2–R3, not R1–R3 as is currently shown.

:VIM Arrows

Show Image

Another labeling detail. These should be R3, not R1.


I think that just about covers everything that caught my eye with the new kitting. Happy to hear your thoughts!


Edit: additional notes/suggestions

Fixing kitting so iso keys can be properly labeled(noticed it was incorrect in monomods kit as well). I'm also.adding in r3 pgup r4 pgdn.

Norde kit is being renamed to International, it was a hold over name from when I first started working on it and and international is more reflective of it's current status. I also was talking to members of the Mexican keyboard community and this partial support (the kit as it stands has 11 keys that are used by LATAM ISO with non-tertiary legends), goes a long way for many of them. This kit ended up being more expensive than expected, so while I wanted to extend support, I had to be a little bit creative that while not perfect, it is something.

I've been mulling it over for a while and I'm keeping 3 key 40s in base for a specific reason, and that is to provide some.basic 40s support to those who only want a base kit, the 40s/ortho kit is there to extend support, but the attempt is to be able to kit it a 40s in the base kit for those trying to save a bit. Is it the right move? Only time will tell.

I understand why you suggest moving the spacebar keys into the 40s but I don't plan on doing so, though I appreciate the suggestion.

[novelflyer]

This looks great and feels good to have a Mexican vendor 

[GrumioThaSpoonGod]

buying for the 10u

[Aiwanei]

I have posted an updated interest check form, it has updated KLEs for the mostly final kitting (small changes may still happen), renders are being made of the updated kitting.  It also has information about a couple collaborations including a tactile switch from gateron and a metal novelty in the DCS profile.

Check out the new IC

[HappyB0T]

Excited for DCS + 10u

[robotictomato]

Is there any chance of an Alps base kit for this set, similar to the recently closed DCS 9009 set?

I'm not sure what the MOQ would need to be to support that, but I would be very interested.

[Aiwanei]

I have updated the kitting renders, these should be the final kitting renders (pending any last minute mistakes found).  I also have some updates about the Gateron SolDark Switch, including prototype switch images as well as some force graphs:

[HungerMechanic]

I have updated the kitting renders, these should be the final kitting renders (pending any last minute mistakes found).  I also have some updates about the Gateron SolDark Switch, including prototype switch images as well as some force graphs:

It's a tactile! I'm not good at reading those graphs, but it looks like a snappy, top-mounted Ergo Clear?

I'd say it's like Durock Medium Tactile, in-between Ergo Clear and T1, but it's beating T1 at the start. What Gateron stem is this? Zealio?

EDIT: It seems to be a modern heavy tactile, like T1 or Zealio V2. Top-mounted bump, probably more intense than Ergo Clear, high activation weight [55 - 60 G]. Short travel, so it may be long-stem for thock.

[Aiwanei]

I have updated the kitting renders, these should be the final kitting renders (pending any last minute mistakes found).  I also have some updates about the Gateron SolDark Switch, including prototype switch images as well as some force graphs:

It's a tactile! I'm not good at reading those graphs, but it looks like a snappy, top-mounted Ergo Clear?

I'd say it's like Durock Medium Tactile, in-between Ergo Clear and T1, but it's beating T1 at the start. What Gateron stem is this? Zealio?

EDIT: It seems to be a modern heavy tactile, like T1 or Zealio V2. Top-mounted bump, probably more intense than Ergo Clear, high activation weight [55 - 60 G]. Short travel, so it may be long-stem for thock.

So it uses the same stem as the Gateron Silver Blizzard, which has a long pole (so shortened travel) and it has a good sized rounded bump with little to no pretravel.  I opted for a lighter spring weight than the Silver Blizzard, to compensate for the higher tactile feeling.

[ephemeral25]

I would love to see my Pipe R3.
I love my big left shift with ISO enter.

Pretty lit will proly buy anyway, we need more DCS ! 

Love the 10U and the VIM makes a lot of sense to me

[Alessio]

i know gb has already been announced, but pls add an alps kit. I think there would be a lot of demand for it given how DCS 9009 went. This set would be sick with alps

[CosminOance]

Loving this, great colour combo.

[7empest]

i know gb has already been announced, but pls add an alps kit. I think there would be a lot of demand for it given how DCS 9009 went. This set would be sick with alps

I agree - this would make for an amazing Alps set!

[Phractals]

Most likely in on Base+International and possibly Accents. This would be my first set of DCS. Really excited to try it out, especially with the colors of this theme.
Hoping International will make MOQ as well! I’m probably a little late to the party, but I’d also be interested in a deskmat to go with this.

[Aiwanei]

I have updated the thread with the pricing, but I have also announced that at ThocKeys (and some of the regional vendors) if you buy the base kit you will get the VIM kit for free if purchased during the early bird window (this window may vary between vendors that participate, for ThocKeys it is 11/11-11/14). 

As a side note, I am looking into a last minute kit addition that would give physical support for Mac OS (2x 1.5u #! keys) but will see if we get the quote to add that in time.

Edit: Looked into a separate kit for the Mac OS keys, even though it is just two keys, the price was higher than the VIM kit and 10u spacebar kit at similar MOQ and would have had to be priced higher than I would have liked.

[azzipa]

this is fire but def bummer that macos/hhkb support was ignored. was first mentioned as early as aug 12 but ignored each time. makes for an auto-boycott from me but you’ll hit #’s so no big deal. glwgb 

As a side note, I am looking into a last minute kit addition that would give physical support for Mac OS (2x 1.5u #! keys) but will see if we get the quote to add that in time.

Edit: Looked into a separate kit for the Mac OS keys, even though it is just two keys, the price was higher than the VIM kit and 10u spacebar kit at similar MOQ and would have had to be priced higher than I would have liked.

[Aiwanei]

this is fire but def bummer that macos/hhkb support was ignored. was first mentioned as early as aug 12 but ignored each time. makes for an auto-boycott from me but you’ll hit #’s so no big deal. glwgb 

As a side note, I am looking into a last minute kit addition that would give physical support for Mac OS (2x 1.5u #! keys) but will see if we get the quote to add that in time.

Edit: Looked into a separate kit for the Mac OS keys, even though it is just two keys, the price was higher than the VIM kit and 10u spacebar kit at similar MOQ and would have had to be priced higher than I would have liked.

I actually looked into having the two 1.5u #! (or code) keys added as a separate kit, but the pricing for those was more quite a bit more expensive than the VIM kit or 10u spacebar kit at the same MOQs, so it seemed cost prohibitive(kit would have been had to be sold at $8-10 for just those two keys).  Though if the base kit exceeds expected sales by a wide enough margin, I may look into adding those two keys into base as a gift, but please don't buy the set on the "hope" that those get added.

[Fooblitzky]

Point/counter point:
There are two 1.25u #! in the base kit now. Swap them out for 1.5u #! since most people (me) are using WKL nowadays anyways.
Problem solved (in my favor).

[azzipa]

I actually looked into having the two 1.5u #! (or code) keys added as a separate kit, but the pricing for those was more quite a bit more expensive than the VIM kit or 10u spacebar kit at the same MOQs, so it seemed cost prohibitive(kit would have been had to be sold at $8-10 for just those two keys). 

dude, i get it and it’s ok. just know, as a macos user i'm numb to the "apple tax" imposed on us unthinking fanbois. you could charge $25 for two R4 1.5u Super, another 1u Alt, and R3 keys for Control and Function and i'd buy it. pretty sure i'm not alone, but this is just chit chat at this point since gb launches tomorrow. you're gonna crush it, which is awesome, because this set looks really good. 

[syberghost]

Copped

[Gondolindrim]

There, you have my money.

Now give me my 10u spacebar.

[dvorcol]

GROUP BUY THREAD IS LIVE!