Will the Topre Realforce 45g solve my problem?

[naviman]

Hey all

I've had my first mech keyboard for a little bit, a Matias Quiet Pro and so far I'm loving it, except for one thing. My left pinky which I only use for pressing shift and 'A' starts to hurt a little when I'm typing. I've tried all the usual ergonomic fixes, but I'm pretty sure the reason is because the force required to press the keys is a little too much for my poor pinky.

So I'm thinking of buying a lower force switch. It also needs to be quiet because I'll be doing a lot of typing in a relatively quiet office. Since I'm in the UK, I'm looking at keyboardco and I'm currently looking at the only two Topres they have in a UK layout:

UK Topre Realforce 105UB 45g Light Gold on Black Keyboard
UK Topre Realforce 88UB 45g Key Black on Black Mini Keyboard

The 45g force is what I'm drawn to, and it's also quieter than Cherry Browns and Reds. I'm also in love with the sound it makes from watching Youtube videos. So my question is, do you think the lower force will solve my pinky problem? And just in case someone has both, how much louder/quieter is it than the Matias?

Thanks!!

[MJ45]

Maybe the variable weighted model might be a better choice for you. http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se07t0#

[SpikeBolt]

I own the Realforce 88UB and it's a quality keyboard for sure. I like light boards, though, and I think the Realforce is still a bit too stiff for my right pinky (enter+backspace keys). The variable weighted Realforce is a neat concept which I haven't tried yet, but the fact that the modifier keys are all 45g really puts me off.

I'd say the Realforce is definitely lighter than the Matias though it's impossible to tell if it's enough for you or not.

EDIT: derp

[Zensuji]

I own the Realforce 88UB and it's a quality keyboard for sure. I like light boards, though, and I think the Realforce is still a bit too stiff for my right pinky (enter+backspace keys). The variable weighted Realforce is a neat concept which I haven't tried yet, but the fact that the modifier keys are all 55g really puts me off.

I'd say the Realforce is definitely lighter than the Matias though it's impossible to tell if it's enough for you or not.

The only key that's 55g on the variable is the ESC. the rest are 45g and 30g

[SpikeBolt]

You're absolutely right, major typo.

[naviman]

Thanks for the replies. I looked into the variable force Topre but decided to go for the uniform 45g because of the UK layout. It's a bit of a gamble because I'm gonna regret not going for the variable if my pinky still hurts!

[nubbinator]

Hopefully it helps, but I actually had more finger pain from Topre boards with metal plates than any other keyboard.  You might be better off trying to get a lighter spring from another Alps switch for your Shift key or getting a Cherry keyboard that you can swap lighter springs into those keys so you have less pain.

[Findecanor]

I have got pain in my index finger after having typed extensively on variable Topre, where the hardest keys are 45g.
The pinkies should be fine though.

All switches with "45g of force" are not equal. It is the total energy needed that is significant.
If you plot the force-displacement graph of a switch, it might have the actuation point at 45g on one axis and the actuation distance on the other... but it is more the area under the graph that determines how stiff a switch feels.

[keyhopper]

Thanks for the replies. I looked into the variable force Topre but decided to go for the uniform 45g because of the UK layout. It's a bit of a gamble because I'm gonna regret not going for the variable if my pinky still hurts!

Topre is great, you won't regret it.

But, if the pain remains, keep in mind that you can learn to type in a new keyboard disposition, such as Dvorak or Colemak.
Dvorak is ergonomic and redistributes most used letters inside the home row, and keeping in mind which are the stronger fingers.

Ten years ago, I had quite a bit of pain in my left hand and fingers. I learned to type with Dvorak layout because of this, and the pain has never returned. I do type a lot, and the week or two it took me to get to my previous speed I considered as a good investment. Also, I don't reorder the keys in my keyboards, since I touch type. It's easier to touch type in a layout other than Qwerty since they do make sense, and the home row (middle row) is actually useful.

The dvorak layout is more balanced than the Qwerty layout, though the right hand does a bit more work than the left hand. With Qwerty, the left hand does much more work than the right hand in my opinion. I haven't tried Colemak though I hear it is more balanced between both hands (I like dvorak more).

I remember I learned Dvorak using a free program called 'gtypist' which has typing lessons specifically tuned for Dvorak, and printed a small dvorak keyboard image and sticked it to the front of my CRT monitor at the time.

Windows has a shortcut to switch between layouts easily (ALT+SHIFT), so that guests can use your computer too.

Links:
          http://www.dvzine.org/zine/01-toc.html

          http://dvorak-keyboard.com/

          http://learn.dvorak.nl/


Hope it was helpful,
Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

[Polymer]

Hey all

I've had my first mech keyboard for a little bit, a Matias Quiet Pro and so far I'm loving it, except for one thing. My left pinky which I only use for pressing shift and 'A' starts to hurt a little when I'm typing. I've tried all the usual ergonomic fixes, but I'm pretty sure the reason is because the force required to press the keys is a little too much for my poor pinky.

So I'm thinking of buying a lower force switch. It also needs to be quiet because I'll be doing a lot of typing in a relatively quiet office. Since I'm in the UK, I'm looking at keyboardco and I'm currently looking at the only two Topres they have in a UK layout:

UK Topre Realforce 105UB 45g Light Gold on Black Keyboard
UK Topre Realforce 88UB 45g Key Black on Black Mini Keyboard

The 45g force is what I'm drawn to, and it's also quieter than Cherry Browns and Reds. I'm also in love with the sound it makes from watching Youtube videos. So my question is, do you think the lower force will solve my pinky problem? And just in case someone has both, how much louder/quieter is it than the Matias?

Thanks!!

Go with a variable...Your pinky will thank you...

I was pretty skeptical about variable because I thought, yeah, that'll suck, I'm used to approximately the same amount needed for every key...I mean, that is what my HHKB is...that is what my other keyboards are...of course it won't be as good..but the price was right, I love Topre for typing so I bought one...Great great investment IMO....It has become my main board as far as work is concerned.  Yes, I still use my HHKB but I'll be honest, my pinkies have gotten so used to the lighter keys that they get a bit tired when going back to my HHKB (which is often but just not often enough). 

The modifiers being 45g don't matter at all because you're not on them as much..but for the other keys, yeah, it really does make a difference and makes total sense...

Now, the hardest part for me was getting used to the fact that resting my hands on the keys ends up with a bunch of aaaaaaaaaa...and at first that was so annoying I thought, nope, not going to like this..but eventually you get used to not resting your hands on the keys or just doing it lighter than you were before (this is in between thoughts, to date I've had no issues with typing). 

I think Matias requires a bit more force so almost anything lighter will likely help..but the variable is very easy on the hands..

One thing with the variable is...I think it sucks for gaming...really badly....I generally don't like Topre for gaming anyways but the variable, in particular, is not good for that...

[naviman]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm typing on the Topre now and its fantastic The noise is just amazing I've read people who say it feels like rubber dome, but I have to disagree with them. The switch feels extremely light compared to the Matias so I don't think I'll regret not getting the variable.

My pinky seems fine, but I'll need to type on it a little longer to know for sure. Usually it would get tired after only 5 typeracer games on the Matias. I've easily beaten that record on the Topre, but I'll have to see.

Accuracy and speed have dropped but I'm certain that'll improve when I get used to it.

I seriously can't get enough of the noise so I'm going to write some more completely unnecessarily

[naviman]

Go with a variable...Your pinky will thank you...

I was pretty skeptical about variable because I thought, yeah, that'll suck, I'm used to approximately the same amount needed for every key...I mean, that is what my HHKB is...that is what my other keyboards are...of course it won't be as good..but the price was right, I love Topre for typing so I bought one...Great great investment IMO....It has become my main board as far as work is concerned.  Yes, I still use my HHKB but I'll be honest, my pinkies have gotten so used to the lighter keys that they get a bit tired when going back to my HHKB (which is often but just not often enough). 

The modifiers being 45g don't matter at all because you're not on them as much..but for the other keys, yeah, it really does make a difference and makes total sense...

Now, the hardest part for me was getting used to the fact that resting my hands on the keys ends up with a bunch of aaaaaaaaaa...and at first that was so annoying I thought, nope, not going to like this..but eventually you get used to not resting your hands on the keys or just doing it lighter than you were before (this is in between thoughts, to date I've had no issues with typing). 

I think Matias requires a bit more force so almost anything lighter will likely help..but the variable is very easy on the hands..

One thing with the variable is...I think it sucks for gaming...really badly....I generally don't like Topre for gaming anyways but the variable, in particular, is not good for that...

hmmm, that's interesting because I won't be gaming at all on this. I would have gone with the variable if I could have got it in a UK layout. Hopefully I won't regret it

[Polymer]

Well if you're enjoying the all 45g that's great too...

I just think for a long term typing thing, I don't know if I could ever go back to anything after using the variable...it just reminds me how much extra work my fingers are doing when they really don't need to.

From a typing standpoint, I don't even realize the keys are lighter than normal..It doesn't feel any different when using it normally...Now, if I press the keys slowly or one at a time, sure, you can easily feel they're different..but usage wise, it really just does make sense....

[ablooga]

Well if you're enjoying the all 45g that's great too...

I just think for a long term typing thing, I don't know if I could ever go back to anything after using the variable...it just reminds me how much extra work my fingers are doing when they really don't need to.

From a typing standpoint, I don't even realize the keys are lighter than normal..It doesn't feel any different when using it normally...Now, if I press the keys slowly or one at a time, sure, you can easily feel they're different..but usage wise, it really just does make sense....

l0l, you're so anal about your variable weight fetish, get over it already. The guy bought a 45g uniform.

[Novus]

Yes absolutely! RF 45g is a great board.

buy it!
I'll sell you mine

Also look into the HHKB Type-S because of it's layout it might save you from the pinky troubles

[Polymer]

Well if you're enjoying the all 45g that's great too...

I just think for a long term typing thing, I don't know if I could ever go back to anything after using the variable...it just reminds me how much extra work my fingers are doing when they really don't need to.

From a typing standpoint, I don't even realize the keys are lighter than normal..It doesn't feel any different when using it normally...Now, if I press the keys slowly or one at a time, sure, you can easily feel they're different..but usage wise, it really just does make sense....

l0l, you're so anal about your variable weight fetish, get over it already. The guy bought a 45g uniform.

I know he did.

Just commenting that the variable really does make sense and is great for people that touch type.

Here's more of my fetish..I really like my variable RF...I really like my HHKB as well...