Getting the most out of Buckling Springs

[swill]

Thanks to the amazingly generous nubbinator, I am currently typing on a beautiful Unicomp.  This is the first time I have ever typed on a BS board, so it is an interesting experience.  I have to say that I am enjoying it, but I also feel like I am not getting most out of this switch type.  Here are a couple things I have noticed...

- There is a bit of a spring sounding twang that is a bit annoying.  It was more noticeable right away, but this is not really bothering me anymore.  Is there a way to cut down on that twang?  I was thinking that lubing the springs a bit would probably dampen the spring vibration and would probably reduce that twange.

- More importantly, I am finding that some keys are not quite as consistent as others in terms of key weight.  I am attributing this to friction in the stems as that is what it feels like when I am typing.  I suspect that lubing BS boards is probably pretty easy and I suspect that It would make a pretty big difference since there is a lot of plastic on plastic contact.  Is there anything I need to pay attention to and be careful of when lubing a BS keyboard?  I did a quick search and saw that some people had done it, but I have not seen any guides on the topic.

Is there anything else I should be looking into to really get the best out of this beautiful beast?

[fohat.digs]

The floss mod takes away a lot of the overtones, but it is not as satisfying on an M as on an F.

I have not tried lubing them.

[swill]

The floss mod takes away a lot of the overtones, but it is not as satisfying on an M as on an F.

I have not tried lubing them.

Interesting, thanks.  I will look up what that mod is and how to do it.  Why would it be more satisfying on an M than an F?  I was under the impression that they had the same switch type.  2400 posts and still a n00b. 

[FreeCopy]

About lubing, it seems more effort than it's worth. I have not done lubing at all on any BS boards and they feel smooth and uniform.

Here's a small bit on lubing or "greasing" an M: http://www.knizefamily.net/russ/computing/keyboards/ibm-model-m-grease-mod/

[nubbinator]

I started to floss mod that board (check the num pad) since it was really pingy, like really obnoxiously so.  The floss helped, but seemed to dampen a little of the tactility as well.

I'd be afraid to lube the spring unless it's a non-capacitive dry lube.   I know some people have greased the spring to reduce noise as well.

The variation in feel could be a couple of factors.  It could be friction, but it could also be something like the springs losing strength due to age and use.  It could also be something like some of the rivets starting to go and the board needing to be bolt modded.  It could also be how the plate is in the case.  I'm not a huge Model M fan since they do feel more inconsistent and, IMO, they're just not as nice as a Model F.

[fohat.digs]

Why would it be more satisfying on an M than an F? 

A Model F is mostly metal with a lot of parts and has a lot of ringing overtones.

A Model M is mostly plastic and the barrel plate in particular is all one piece, so there are a lot less overtones in any case.

The Model F is much more "live" feeling so a little deadening does not hurt so much. An M is kind of lifeless in comparison, relative to sound and feel, so losing some ping is more noticeable.

[FreeCopy]

It could also be something like some of the rivets starting to go and the board needing to be bolt modded.

I had assumed this might be something you already did to the board. In that case I should have mentioned mine are bolted with new hammers and springs from unicomp. Noticeable difference in my first one where I left the originals in. Has an inconsistent and worn feeling.

[swill]

Very interesting. Thanks for the feedback guys, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I will check the floss mod on the numpad so I understand what that mod is. Thanks nubs.

I will also take it apart and have a look at the barrel. The board does not feel too inconsistent in that way. The same key can feel different depending on the angle I hit it from which makes me think lube would help.

I will avoid lubing the springs for now as there seems to be more going on there. I will work my way to that if need be, but the floss mod seems like the known solution to the problem, so I will check that out.

[Snowdog993]

Which Unicomp keyboard did you obtain?  Was it a 101 or a 122 key model?  My Unicomp 103 feels very consistent.  I have heard tales of the 122 key model not being very consistent at all.  I've never had the 122 key model myself, but that would answer some of the questions you are talking about I think.
I believe there is a serious difference between the 101 and 122 models.

Edit: I have that 103 key model!  Errrgh!

[swill]

Which Unicomp keyboard did you obtain?  Was it a 101 or a 122 key model?  My Unicomp 101 feels very consistent.  I have heard tales of the 122 key model not being very consistent at all.  I've never had the 122 key model myself, but that would answer some of the questions you are talking about I think.
I believe there is a serious difference between the 101 and 122 models.

Its a 101.  It does not feel bad.  I am just trying to see how good I can make it feel.  Given how many people love BS on here, I figured there must be some tricks.    I have not taken it apart to know if the rivets are loose on the barrel or anything like that, but I suspect is is probably pretty solid because it does not feel too lively (which I would expect if it was loose).

[Melvang]

I tried sourcing some of the preferred floss for a floss mod for myself locally.  I guess the preferred stuff is Oral B Super Floss.  I didn't feel like paying online prices plus shipping so I started digging around the house for a suitable alternative.  I believe I have found one.  The interior core threads from Paracord.  Best part is you get 7 times the length of the parent material, plus you can use the outer sheath form many things (though it is the interior core strands that give the strength).

I will be assembling my XT post plastidip on the top plate and will be doing a before and after video using that stuff for it.  Initial impressions when done in the numpad area were good.

[Snowdog993]

Its a 101.  It does not feel bad.  I am just trying to see how good I can make it feel.  Given how many people love BS on here, I figured there must be some tricks.    I have not taken it apart to know if the rivets are loose on the barrel or anything like that, but I suspect is is probably pretty solid because it does not feel too lively (which I would expect if it was loose).

That's interesting.  I suppose I have been very lucky with what I have.  A buckling spring board should feel relatively consistent.  There is one exception.  The M13.  That one feels "tighter" than all the other ones.  I think that is an accurate description of it.  The spacebar of the M13 drove me INSANE.  I broke down and ordered a new black spacebar for it from Unicomp.  The new one feels and sounds right.  Odd.

Maybe there is some issue with that keyboard you have.  I really couldn't tell you without actually using it myself!

[rowdy]

If you shake the keyboard gently, can you hear little plastic things rattling loosely around inside?

If so, probably rivets.  Start thinking bolt mod.

If/when you do open it, make sure you catch any rivets that fall out.  More than a dozen or two, you'll almost certainly need a bolt mod.

One of my Model Ms lost at least a dozen rivets.  One side of the board feels tight and crisp, the other wise feels loose and clunky.

[swill]

Its a 101.  It does not feel bad.  I am just trying to see how good I can make it feel.  Given how many people love BS on here, I figured there must be some tricks.    I have not taken it apart to know if the rivets are loose on the barrel or anything like that, but I suspect is is probably pretty solid because it does not feel too lively (which I would expect if it was loose).

That's interesting.  I suppose I have been very lucky with what I have.  A buckling spring board should feel relatively consistent.  There is one exception.  The M13.  That one feels "tighter" than all the other ones.  I think that is an accurate description of it.  The spacebar of the M13 drove me INSANE.  I broke down and ordered a new black spacebar for it from Unicomp.  The new one feels and sounds right.  Odd.

Maybe there is some issue with that keyboard you have.  I really couldn't tell you without actually using it myself!

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with it. I am just being super picky.   just trying to get the best experience I can from it and understand what the contributing factors could be since this is all new to me.

[nubbinator]

If you shake the keyboard gently, can you hear little plastic things rattling loosely around inside?

If so, probably rivets.  Start thinking bolt mod.

If/when you do open it, make sure you catch any rivets that fall out.  More than a dozen or two, you'll almost certainly need a bolt mod.

One of my Model Ms lost at least a dozen rivets.  One side of the board feels tight and crisp, the other wise feels loose and clunky.

No rivets were popped when I opened it to dye it.  Unless some popped during shipping, it shouldn't be an issue.  A bolt mod might still make it tighter though.

[fohat.digs]

I tried sourcing some of the preferred floss for a floss mod for myself locally.  I guess the preferred stuff is Oral B Super Floss.

A box is $5 at Walgreens or almost any drug store and has enough to do several keyboards.

[Snowdog993]

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with it. I am just being super picky.

Maybe that's all there is to it.  Some of us actually thought you had a serious issue with it.  It could be that you are just not used to a buckling spring keyboard.  They are very different.  They definitely don't feel like a rubberdome keyboard.  If you compare it to an IBM 92-M6 rubberdome keyboard, it's like night and day.  However, if you like the feeling of the 92-M6 more than a buckling spring keyboard, then I suppose it's not the kind of switch for you.

[E TwentyNine]

I've never lubed a Model M board.  I'd be worried about the aftermath if the lube gathered dirt/dust.

An easy step is putting the keyboard on a towel or something similar (couple of mouse mats).  Can deaden the sound.

[0100010]

I've never lubed a Model M board.  I'd be worried about the aftermath if the lube gathered dirt/dust.

An easy step is putting the keyboard on a towel or something similar (couple of mouse mats).  Can deaden the sound.

This.  No way would I lube a Model M, would be too worried about dust and grit collecting into the stem and the lube migrating to the membranes and  rendering it useless.

[Melvang]

I tried sourcing some of the preferred floss for a floss mod for myself locally.  I guess the preferred stuff is Oral B Super Floss.

A box is $5 at Walgreens or almost any drug store and has enough to do several keyboards.

None at any drug or department store in town.

[Snowdog993]

I've never lubed a Model M board.  I'd be worried about the aftermath if the lube gathered dirt/dust.

An easy step is putting the keyboard on a towel or something similar (couple of mouse mats).  Can deaden the sound.

This.  No way would I lube a Model M, would be too worried about dust and grit collecting into the stem and the lube migrating to the membranes and  rendering it useless.

I agree with both of you.  I would never lube any model M keyboard.  Bad idea.  It's just wrong.

[JPG]

I tried sourcing some of the preferred floss for a floss mod for myself locally.  I guess the preferred stuff is Oral B Super Floss.

A box is $5 at Walgreens or almost any drug store and has enough to do several keyboards.

That's what I used for my model F. Works perfectly. It's like 5-7$ if I remember correctly (at Jean Coutu) and I have been able to do 3 keyboards up to now and I can still make many more I suppose, so the cost should not be a real factor at 1-2$ per keyboard.


I didn't lube any of my BS keyboards (all model F). They all feel super nice, yet they all feel slightly different one from another. It suppose it's this way because they had different usage/wear and also because they are not all the same model (2 XT, 1 AT and 1 F122). As for the feel, my favorite is the F122, but it was in such a good condition and all wrapped when I got it that I suspect it was a "backup" that never seen much use at all, which could explain why it feels just perfect to type on. But my AT F is quite close and it's the one I use at job since the F122 is just WAY too large to use if you need to type and use the mouse most of the time.


As for lubing, if I remember, I have not seen so great success from it for the BS switch. Pretty sure someone killed at least one keyboard for overlubing it.


So stick with the floss mod and try the model F to skip directly to you next best keyboard

[swill]

Thanks for the tips guys. I think part of my issue is that I am most comfortable on light and smooth switches, so my first reaction to the key action was that it was a bit harsh. After using it a bunch I am getting more used to it. The spring sound doesn't really bother me anymore, it is actually growing on me a bit. Makes me feel like I am using something vintage.

I will just keep using it as is for a while and see if there is any specific keys I need to investigate. There is one key that I have noticed to feel a bit grittier than the others when I am typing fast. Its n or c, I can't remember, but I know its down under my home row. When I am typing quickly I notice that I make mistakes with it periodically. I am on my phone, so I can't check right now.

[Touch_It]

Reseating the keycap would probably fix that.    I know bs keys are pretty heavy but for whatever reason they feel really light.  Like more along the lines of Mx blue switches and certainly way lighter than space invaders.  Maybe I'm crazy lol.  I do think though that you should at least try a model f at some point in time.  The feel and sound are sublime.

[Melvang]

Just wanted to post my clip here

The first video is all before the floss mod using cores from paracord.  I did it in two separate clips as I didn't feel like editing.  I took the first clip, did the mod, did the second clip in one sitting.  Link for the second clip is in the description of the first clip.