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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: DuckNorris on Sun, 30 June 2013, 23:28:24

Title: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Sun, 30 June 2013, 23:28:24
Hello Again,

   I currently purchased a Model M from ebay (IBM 1989) and from the pictures it looks like I may have to do some deep restoring/cleaning just in case.I purchased the tool to open the keyboard and such (excited).  Also, I was looking around for capability for the keycaps.

I found the unicomp ones and I was wanting to know if the ones listed for buckling springs are compatible with the Model M. Say these.

http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/PRGB
and
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/WASD

Does anything that work with the Unicomp 101 work with Model M?
Thank you for your time and help!
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: 1391406 on Sun, 30 June 2013, 23:38:58
They're interchangeable.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 30 June 2013, 23:39:56
Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps (http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/SBLE) while you're buying too. :D
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Sun, 30 June 2013, 23:50:45
Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps (http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/SBLE) while you're buying too. :D

Oh wow, and those are all for Model M ? (all the geek hack ones you directed me to?) That is so awesome ^_^ . Thanks for showing me that. I may be giving this model M some little change but keep most of the vintage there :) .
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 30 June 2013, 23:57:22
Yup, they're for a Model Ms. I'm going to order some for my SSK.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Mon, 01 July 2013, 00:05:07
For the tux, you only get 4 keys? Where do the little linux penguins go then? o.O Model M doesn't have windows keys, I guess just anywhere?
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: neoezekiel on Mon, 01 July 2013, 00:14:18

Be careful not all Model Ms have the same sized modifiers, and some have the post in a different position. It is a good idea to email them to confirm compatibility before you buy. I got bitten by different sized mods the last time I bought some.

For the tux, you only get 4 keys? Where do the little linux penguins go then? o.O Model M doesn't have windows keys, I guess just anywhere?

Some of the later Model Ms do have meta (windows) keys, and so do some of the Unicomp models
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 01 July 2013, 02:51:46

Be careful not all Model Ms have the same sized modifiers, and some have the post in a different position. It is a good idea to email them to confirm compatibility before you buy. I got bitten by different sized mods the last time I bought some.

For the tux, you only get 4 keys? Where do the little linux penguins go then? o.O Model M doesn't have windows keys, I guess just anywhere?

Some of the later Model Ms do have meta (windows) keys, and so do some of the Unicomp models

No actual IBM Model M ever shipped with a Windows key. Not a single one. The Windows key didn't become commonplace until 1997 - and IBM never made the necessary revisions to the original M. The M2 didn't have it. The M15 didn't have it. Not a single Model M ever came in the 104/105 Windows key layout, not ever.
The only ones to ever have a Windows key were the Unicomps. And only models specifically with Windows keys. They made them work by removing the center block and narrowing the other keys slightly. The details are basically irrelevant because either way they don't work on an original M. (Which is why Unicomp differentiates.)

All Unicomp keys excepting Alt/Ctrl for 105 layouts are 100% direct swap. Exact same molds. The RGB modifier set you linked is correct for all model Ms excepting JIS and one other layout that escapes me at the moment. Unless dealing with an M13, all letter/numeric/numpad are direct swap.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 July 2013, 08:41:10
I have had Model M/Fs from the mid-1980s-2010 and I can tell you that there are significant differences in the appearance of the legends throughout that run. I have personally only seen 1-piece keys on some old F-XTs and F-ATs.

The most common of the legends (what I would consider the "standard") are moderately bold and set in from the top left corner of the edge of the key cap by about 2mm.

There are legends that are significantly more bold ("darker") and some that are less bold ("thinner") which turn up occasionally.

There are legends that I call "high" that seem crammed up into the upper left corner, perhaps only 1mm in from each edge.

As far as the secondary legends on the numpad, there are light and dark brown, light and dark gray, and black. You can rarely find others, such as orange and blue. (I have a blue set but have never seen orange in real life.)

Clickykeyboards will accommodate replacement number keys if you tell them something like "light brown" they know what you are talking about.

Unicomp keys are interchangeable and I have never had any problems with them, although some people think that their quality control is lower because of imperfections such as larger sprues and lack of trimming. I would not be concerned with Unicomp keys not matching your set if you buy replacements, unless you have a less common set such as the "high" legends.

Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 01 July 2013, 09:35:11

All Unicomp keys excepting Alt/Ctrl for 105 layouts are 100% direct swap.

Ctrls are the same size, it's only the Alts that were shrunk (they are the same size as the Windows keys)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 01 July 2013, 11:57:24
One thing to note with older IBM boards is that they switched stabilizer designs in the 1980's, so you'll need an insert if you want to use new unicomp keys with them. Unicomp sells these inserts, I do believe.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 01 July 2013, 22:06:57
One thing to note with older IBM boards is that they switched stabilizer designs in the 1980's, so you'll need an insert if you want to use new unicomp keys with them. Unicomp sells these inserts, I do believe.

Oh yes! Almost forgot that! They do sell the inserts - you have to order them through customer service still though.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Mon, 01 July 2013, 22:24:12
One thing to note with older IBM boards is that they switched stabilizer designs in the 1980's, so you'll need an insert if you want to use new unicomp keys with them. Unicomp sells these inserts, I do believe.

Oh yes! Almost forgot that! They do sell the inserts - you have to order them through customer service still though.

What is an insert? Will I need it for this keyboard? It is a 1391401 , March 1989.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 11:21:46
March 1989 is about when the change took place.

Take off a long key such as numpad Enter or Backspace. Either you will find a "U-shaped" wire that fits in slots below, or there will be a peg (instead of a second chimney and spring) that fits into a colored plastic insert sleeve in the second chimney.

If you take off a wire and buy a replacement without a wire, you will need the insert sleeve. the vertical keys have off-centered sleeves, and the horizontal ones are centered.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 02 July 2013, 15:18:46
March 1989 is about when the change took place.

Take off a long key such as numpad Enter or Backspace. Either you will find a "U-shaped" wire that fits in slots below, or there will be a peg (instead of a second chimney and spring) that fits into a colored plastic insert sleeve in the second chimney.

If you take off a wire and buy a replacement without a wire, you will need the insert sleeve. the vertical keys have off-centered sleeves, and the horizontal ones are centered.


And don't forget the really, really obnoxious double-stabilized keys. I have an example of those in my closet right now. Anything '91 on though should be using the universal 'narrow' insert sleeve. No offset on those at all, and I believe those are what Unicomp has. They're much easier to deal with, but some form of lube is not optional. (I recommend WD40 prior to installation but there's lots of room for debate and preference there.)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: bazemk1979 on Tue, 02 July 2013, 16:01:21
Hello Again,

   I currently purchased a Model M from ebay (IBM 1989) and from the pictures it looks like I may have to do some deep restoring/cleaning just in case.I purchased the tool to open the keyboard and such (excited).  Also, I was looking around for capability for the keycaps.

I found the unicomp ones and I was wanting to know if the ones listed for buckling springs are compatible with the Model M. Say these.

http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/PRGB
and
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/WASD

Does anything that work with the Unicomp 101 work with Model M?
Thank you for your time and help!

will work
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:08:35
March 1989 is about when the change took place.

Take off a long key such as numpad Enter or Backspace. Either you will find a "U-shaped" wire that fits in slots below, or there will be a peg (instead of a second chimney and spring) that fits into a colored plastic insert sleeve in the second chimney.

If you take off a wire and buy a replacement without a wire, you will need the insert sleeve. the vertical keys have off-centered sleeves, and the horizontal ones are centered.

I thought I only needed like the cap, not the entire key? Since IBM Model M is a two piece key.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:23:49
I thought I only needed like the cap, not the entire key? Since IBM Model M is a two piece key.

I was referring to the oversize keys. I pulled my Enter key to show the insert (this one is green, most are white or blue).

If your keyboard came with wire stabilizers, those inserts will not be in place and you will need to get them.

If they are already there, the new set from Unicomp will drop in directly.

Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:26:38
I was referring to the oversize keys. I pulled my Enter key to show the insert (this one is green, most are white or blue).

Wait what?

Most common is white, yes. Blue isn't quite as common. I've never seen green. I have however, seen a large quantity of gray - dark gray for vertical oriented offset, light gray for centered. O.o

(BTW, yes, they are all color coded. But the color coding is inconsistent except within a single keyboard. HOORAY!)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:47:49
Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Wed, 03 July 2013, 00:30:30
I thought I only needed like the cap, not the entire key? Since IBM Model M is a two piece key.

I was referring to the oversize keys. I pulled my Enter key to show the insert (this one is green, most are white or blue).

If your keyboard came with wire stabilizers, those inserts will not be in place and you will need to get them.

If they are already there, the new set from Unicomp will drop in directly.

Thank you so much for that explanation and now I know. For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

I am sorry for all the questions. I just heard about the Model M and I have always had Cherry MX, so I am pretty clueless on the Model M but it sounds nice so I want to restore one and bring it back to action. Thanks!
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 03 July 2013, 03:11:30
Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.


... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 July 2013, 07:40:54
For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

As soon as you open one up, this will all become obvious in one second.



Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 July 2013, 08:02:50
For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

All the oversize keys are one-piece. They all have 2 "holes" and the switch (barrel with spring) is in one. The second hole does nothing if a wire stabilizer is used, but if there is no wire, then the peg in the dummy side slips into the insert.

The long horizontal keys use the centered inserts, and the long vertical keys use the off-center inserts. Remember the orientation when you remove the key.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: 0100010 on Wed, 03 July 2013, 08:13:26
How interesting.  My Unicomp has gray off center inserts on the vertical oversize keys, and white centered inserts on the horizontal oversize keys.  Never knew there were different types (or colors) before.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 July 2013, 08:21:09
How interesting.  My Unicomp has gray off center inserts on the vertical oversize keys, and white centered inserts on the horizontal oversize keys.  Never knew there were different types (or colors) before.

I think that the colors are random. I have gotten factory stems in half a dozen colors, sometimes 3 different colors on the same board. I have gotten both on-center and off-center blue inserts, but think that all the white ones have been on-center. I seem to remember that the dark gray and black ones are all off-center, but not sure. Easy enough just to look at them!
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Thu, 04 July 2013, 17:22:01
For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

All the oversize keys are one-piece. They all have 2 "holes" and the switch (barrel with spring) is in one. The second hole does nothing if a wire stabilizer is used, but if there is no wire, then the peg in the dummy side slips into the insert.

The long horizontal keys use the centered inserts, and the long vertical keys use the off-center inserts. Remember the orientation when you remove the key.

Thank you so much for educating me on the Model M , I now have a much better knowledge and feel more confident about it. If I even come up with a little issue later on can I message you regarding it? You have been very helpful.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 04 July 2013, 17:26:44
For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

All the oversize keys are one-piece. They all have 2 "holes" and the switch (barrel with spring) is in one. The second hole does nothing if a wire stabilizer is used, but if there is no wire, then the peg in the dummy side slips into the insert.

The long horizontal keys use the centered inserts, and the long vertical keys use the off-center inserts. Remember the orientation when you remove the key.

Thank you so much for educating me on the Model M , I now have a much better knowledge and feel more confident about it. If I even come up with a little issue later on can I message you regarding it? You have been very helpful.

There is a lot of passion here for ancient IBM iron.

There is something satisfying about a piece of craftsmanship that isn't made to be an appliance.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: neoezekiel on Fri, 05 July 2013, 11:51:48
Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.


... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind :))
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 05 July 2013, 14:18:00
Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.


... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind :))

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: neoezekiel on Sat, 06 July 2013, 02:22:17
Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.


... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind :))

(Attachment Link)

Holy carp! I'm colorblind too, I did not know that about myself...  ;D
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 06 July 2013, 03:22:18
Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.


... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind :))

(Attachment Link)

Holy carp! I'm colorblind too, I did not know that about myself...  ;D

You must be. Those are Lexmark M13. And pretty sure M13's the only place I've ever seen them. :P
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: terrpn on Sat, 06 July 2013, 15:36:20
Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps (http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/SBLE) while you're buying too. :D

Oh wow, and those are all for Model M ? (all the geek hack ones you directed me to?) That is so awesome ^_^ . Thanks for showing me that. I may be giving this model M some little change but keep most of the vintage there :) .

Here's a shot of my model M (1397599) with some GH, etc. keys.........painted black background.

Lid is (black label) from a junk terminal board I swapped out with orig "blue label." Drilled out the holes and put a new LED Overlay I ordered from Unicomp. Remapped a F9-F12 keys and stuck on some multimedia keys since I do a lot of video and audio.

Crappy picture, but paint turned out nice...........I like the contrast.

Unicomp is awesome to deal with. Great customer service and quick shipping.


Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Sun, 07 July 2013, 19:02:19
Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps (http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/SBLE) while you're buying too. :D

Oh wow, and those are all for Model M ? (all the geek hack ones you directed me to?) That is so awesome ^_^ . Thanks for showing me that. I may be giving this model M some little change but keep most of the vintage there :) .

Here's a shot of my model M (1397599) with some GH, etc. keys.........painted black background.

Lid is (black label) from a junk terminal board I swapped out with orig "blue label." Drilled out the holes and put a new LED Overlay I ordered from Unicomp. Remapped a F9-F12 keys and stuck on some multimedia keys since I do a lot of video and audio.

Crappy picture, but paint turned out nice...........I like the contrast.

Unicomp is awesome to deal with. Great customer service and quick shipping.

What kind of paint did you use to paint that keyboard? Also, I thought you didn't need to drill out new holes for a replacement LED Overlay. I really like that modification on yours btw, looks amazing :D
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 07 July 2013, 20:04:28
What kind of paint did you use to paint that keyboard? Also, I thought you didn't need to drill out new holes for a replacement LED Overlay. I really like that modification on yours btw, looks amazing :D

You do, if the board didn't originally have the windows. The non-LED terminal boards come in two varieties I've seen. One with no cutouts and no window sticker, and the standard M upper with cutouts and a blanking window sticker (only found on later ones.)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 08 July 2013, 16:47:05
Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: 0100010 on Mon, 08 July 2013, 17:51:26
Rowdy - it depends.  Blank black keys are one piece only, most of the other colors are two peice.  Always best to open a support ticket with them to ask your questions, get the specifics settled, then place your order referencing the ticket number.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 08 July 2013, 19:15:32
This particular cover I cannibalized off a an old RJ-45 board that was in bad shape and did not have the windowed LED, so I just drilled and flipped an overlay on it.

I used Krylon Fusion Satin Black for PLASTIC.

I did not want to spray the original blue label lid that came with it as it is in good shape, the one you see I painted black had a scuff or 2 on it so I said what the heck. Definitely mask with "frog" tape if you paint.

I have collected fountain pens for years as well, so I took some silicone grease I use sometimes for them.............shoved a bunch in the space bar spring barrel just to see if there would be a difference and can you believe it (the space bar only)........it is more or less only tactile now without the click.

Of course I like clack when bangin the keys, so the reason why I only did the space bar.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 08 July 2013, 19:28:36
Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

The keycaps I ordered from Unicomp are the 1 piece variety (plunger/stem and cap are 1 unit)........verses the older 2 piece cap and stem.

Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: wcass on Mon, 08 July 2013, 19:34:53
When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?
i have ordered caps probably 5 or 6 times from Unicomp and received a key stem for every key cap every time.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 08 July 2013, 19:51:19
Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

The keycaps I ordered from Unicomp are the 1 piece variety (plunger/stem and cap are 1 unit)........verses the older 2 piece cap and stem.


This sounds like a better idea.  The caps I have I noticed come off very easily - no wonder a few have gone missing.

As this thread is discussing cases too, can I ask about cables?

One of my Model Ms has a detachable cable, which is missing.  I can just get a "detachable PS/2 cable" from Unicomp - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/1395110 - should be ok.

The other one does not have a removable cable, but someone has cut the cable off about 5cm (2") from the keyboard.  Unicomp list an "attached cable" - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/ACable - would this be a replacement for the cut cable?  Or am I up for cutting and joining a detachable cable to this one?
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 08 July 2013, 20:02:59
Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

The keycaps I ordered from Unicomp are the 1 piece variety (plunger/stem and cap are 1 unit)........verses the older 2 piece cap and stem.


This sounds like a better idea.  The caps I have I noticed come off very easily - no wonder a few have gone missing.

As this thread is discussing cases too, can I ask about cables?

One of my Model Ms has a detachable cable, which is missing.  I can just get a "detachable PS/2 cable" from Unicomp - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/1395110 - should be ok.

The other one does not have a removable cable, but someone has cut the cable off about 5cm (2") from the keyboard.  Unicomp list an "attached cable" - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/ACable - would this be a replacement for the cut cable?  Or am I up for cutting and joining a detachable cable to this one?

I ordered my (detatchable) cable from Unicomp.............it was faster than ebay, etc.

As far as your cut cable (attached to keyboard) I would just buy from Unicomp, pop the lid and get your soldering iron out. I have never changed an attached cable, but I guarentee there are enough people here who would gladly walk you through it. Unicomp to my knowledge has everything you need to rebuild your M.

Just remember to get you a long shaft 7/32 socket as a regular socket will not reach when opening the case.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 08 July 2013, 20:06:37
sorry..............should have included

7/32= 5.5mm
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 08 July 2013, 20:22:54
Cool, thanks for that!

I only collected them late yesterday evening, posted a couple of pictures, and left it at that.  Thought I'd start asking questions now rather than later - might give me something to do this weekend.  Or at least to start.

Unicomp cables are cheaper than those I have seen on eBay, delivery times would vary (to Australia), but their estimate of $24 shipping for a single cable had me going :eek:

I might have to get an idea of everything I need and buy it all at once to avoid multiple large shipping costs for many small packages.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 08 July 2013, 21:25:55
Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

I actually asked them this and didn't receive a very clear answer. What I received was either a one piece keycap or both parts of a two piece. Sometimes the bottom part of a two piece had some colour discontinuities, but were otherwise excellent.

I have a wiha 5.5mm thinwall "picofinish" nutdriver and it works quite well for my model M's.

If you like, I'll happily mail forward you anything you need to buy.

Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 08 July 2013, 21:40:17
I actually asked them this and didn't receive a very clear answer. What I received was either a one piece keycap or both parts of a two piece. Sometimes the bottom part of a two piece had some colour discontinuities, but were otherwise excellent.

I have a wiha 5.5mm thinwall "picofinish" nutdriver and it works quite well for my model M's.

If you like, I'll happily mail forward you anything you need to buy.

Thanks for the input.  Lots to learn about the Model M, but they are simply and strongly made, and all I need is a little time.

I have a variety of tools, mostly smaller, so I would be surprised if I don't have something to fit those nuts.  Hopefully I will have a chance to look this weekend.

If you get either a single piece, or both parts of a two piece, keycaps that would suit me fine.  The RGB keycaps, as I understand it, are single part keycaps anyway.

I might take you up on that forwarding offer, once I work out what I need.  Their estimate of shipping for just one cable was about $24 :eek:
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 08 July 2013, 22:37:13
OK............I just pulled a few keycaps I purchased from Unicomp including 1 x1, rgb mods, GH keys.

They are for the most part "2 piece", however they do sell both the cap and stem/plunger together as "1 unit"- so my bad as I thought they were mostly 1 piece. The GH short and long shift are "1 piece."

If stateside I got my 7/32 or 5.5mm deep socket from Home Depot for $2.99.

Hope this helps.........151`

Just wanted to make sure I set the record straight since we are here
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 08 July 2013, 22:39:00
I actually asked them this and didn't receive a very clear answer. What I received was either a one piece keycap or both parts of a two piece. Sometimes the bottom part of a two piece had some colour discontinuities, but were otherwise excellent.

I have a wiha 5.5mm thinwall "picofinish" nutdriver and it works quite well for my model M's.

If you like, I'll happily mail forward you anything you need to buy.

Thanks for the input.  Lots to learn about the Model M, but they are simply and strongly made, and all I need is a little time.

I have a variety of tools, mostly smaller, so I would be surprised if I don't have something to fit those nuts.  Hopefully I will have a chance to look this weekend.

If you get either a single piece, or both parts of a two piece, keycaps that would suit me fine.  The RGB keycaps, as I understand it, are single part keycaps anyway.

I might take you up on that forwarding offer, once I work out what I need.  Their estimate of shipping for just one cable was about $24 :eek:
Shipping to Australia is always expensive, but it becomes better if you are getting a lot of stuff sent all at once. I'm ok with holding stuff for you for a few months.

IBM used odd sizes for their bolts in model M's and F's. I had to special order a 9/32 for my F's. For the M's I have a cheap chinese set of screwdrivers and tips that the 5.5mm from also work well.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 08 July 2013, 22:40:10
OK............I just pulled a few keycaps I purchased from Unicomp including 1 x1, rgb mods, GH keys.

They are for the most part "2 piece", however they do sell both the cap and stem/plunger together as "1 unit"- so my bad as I thought they were mostly 1 piece. The GH short and long shift are "1 piece."

If stateside I got my 7/32 or 5.5mm deep socket from Home Depot for $2.99.

Hope this helps.........151`

Just wanted to make sure I set the record straight since we are here

Definitely sounds encouraging.  I would have hoped they would sell the top and bottom parts of the keycap together, and it seems they do.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Mon, 08 July 2013, 23:31:22
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z342/oscarreyes1/5a9fb475-138b-4dd4-a827-7db7355fc7e3.jpg)

After hours and extensive cleaning I remember to ask this. See those blue and white inserts for my keys? Does that mean I have inserts and can just drop in Unicomp keys for the larger ones? :)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: terrpn on Tue, 09 July 2013, 08:51:36
Show Image
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z342/oscarreyes1/5a9fb475-138b-4dd4-a827-7db7355fc7e3.jpg)


After hours and extensive cleaning I remember to ask this. See those blue and white inserts for my keys? Does that mean I have inserts and can just drop in Unicomp keys for the larger ones? :)

I am assuming you are referring to the "+" and "enter" on the num pad?

Yes...........they (Unicomp keys) will drop right in with no problem.

Good job on the cleaning! Which model number did you say you have?
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: Thimplum on Tue, 09 July 2013, 11:29:26
Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps (http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/SBLE) while you're buying too. :D

LOL. I hadn't seen those before.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: DuckNorris on Tue, 09 July 2013, 12:26:07
Show Image
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z342/oscarreyes1/5a9fb475-138b-4dd4-a827-7db7355fc7e3.jpg)


After hours and extensive cleaning I remember to ask this. See those blue and white inserts for my keys? Does that mean I have inserts and can just drop in Unicomp keys for the larger ones? :)

I am assuming you are referring to the "+" and "enter" on the num pad?

Yes...........they (Unicomp keys) will drop right in with no problem.

Good job on the cleaning! Which model number did you say you have?

1989 one I think.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 13 July 2013, 03:17:46
I pulled all keycaps off both keyboards today for cleaning, and discovered that one of the space bars is damaged - one of the pins that holds the stabiliser bar is broken, so I need a new space bar.  The other one seems fine.  The space bar is the "large" one from Unicomp, right?

Second question is colour.  They list black, pearl and white.  The space bars I have are not as white as a piece of paper, but almost the same as the HHKB keys.  Would that be Unicomp's white or pearl?

Mainly for my own records, my Ms are missing the following keys:

1993: Esc, F1, 1, Backspace, Tab, Caps Lock, left Shift, Z, X, left Ctrl, left Alt.
1995: Caps Lock, left Shift, left Ctrl, space bar.

Third question is also colours: I'd get the RGB sets, so that takes care of Shift/Ctrl/Alt.  What colour are the other modifiers on these?  Unicomp list pebble and gray for the colours, I'm guessing mine would be gray?  And including a bunch of single keys, Unicomp lists black, pebble (kinda light brown), gray and pearl.  Definitely not black or pebble or gray, so I guess the alpha keys are pearl?

Then I noticed the Complete Printed Buckling Spring Button Set for $25 - would that be better?  That seems cheap for a complete set (minus space bar) of keycaps.  Any comments?

http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/PSET

Slowly learning about these Model Ms.  Pics of mine are here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33130.msg953791#msg953791

Thanks for any suggestions :)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 13 July 2013, 09:00:39
The stock key colors for a Model M are pebble modifiers and pearl keys. White will look more like a pure white.

I'm planning to order some complete pebble/pearl sets for my Model F-122 ANSI-fication project, so I hope they will be high quality.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: snoopy on Sat, 13 July 2013, 09:33:24
It is the large spacebar that you need. As far as I know, the small spacebar is for their modern keyboards with winkey.

I ordered a complete set from them some time ago. It's very ok for it's price. But the legends seem to be a bit different (looks like their printing stuff weared out a bit) then on old original sets and also the color of the modifiers differ a bit (maybe due age).

So if you want a completly perfect matching set, I would go for the complete set.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: wcass on Sat, 13 July 2013, 10:30:21
it is true that there can be minor font and hue differences between "classic" caps and the new stuff, but i have to look for it - and sometimes i still can't see it.

Alt and Ctrl keys are not side specific, so you will be able to shift keys around to get one of your two boards mostly complete. if you want to get a complete set of classic keys, you might post a request in the "classifieds" section here. the caps lock, numbers, and letters are easy (i have a few about) but i use the left shifts, pipe\, and enters to convert my 122s to ANSI.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 13 July 2013, 18:54:10
@Techno Trousers - Pebble and pearl even sounds like it was made to last - thanks!

@snoopy - That's what I suspected, thanks for the confirmation.  Completely perfectly matching doesn't bother me that much, especially if the differences are only slight.

@wcass - My Alts are green, and one Ctrl is labelled Ctrl/Act (haven't seen that before!), but yeah, having removed all caps I can see the bilateral nature.  Makes things slightly easier.  Now why didn't I think of Classifieds!

At this stage I don't even know if either of them works, but I need to make or buy a cable for each to even find that.  Waiting on a 5.5mm socket driver to at least open the one with the snipped cable.  I have already found a PS/2 cable (beige!) with a ferrite bead attached, all I need to do is snip both plugs off and swap them over.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 14 July 2013, 20:43:21
Latest thoughts ...

If I get individual caps from Unicomp, the total comes to $42 plus postage, but excludes backspace and tab as they do not sell those separately.

If I get two complete sets plus space bars, the total comes to $56.

So I'd probably go for the two complete sets - it is easier, and might end up cheaper, if not around the same cost, as getting individual keys plus trying to find backspace and tab from somewhere else.

The question: The Unicomp complete set (http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/PSET) excludes space bar (fair enough, they are listed separately), and also excludes "the support frame shown in the photos".  There is no photo.  What is the support frame, and do I need one?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 14 July 2013, 20:51:32
The support frame they refer to is the barrel plate, no you don't need it.  Did you open a support ticket to ask if they can sell you just the backspace and tab?
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 14 July 2013, 21:00:36
Ah, no, but they do not list either of those separately, and in fact the listing for individual keycaps states: Single unit wide, alphanumeric size, 2-piece cap and stem assemblies only. Multi-wide keys not currently available.
Title: Re: Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 14 July 2013, 21:25:19
None of the blue modifiers on my board were listed either, but I was able to order them after detailing what I needed with a support ticket.