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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: damorgue on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:02:34

Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:02:34: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/embeddedform?formkey=dGdBUDZSME10NHFDV09FYm96eXR4ZHc6MQ

More nfo below, but not that altogether relevant. Form above is where you want to click. :boink:

I don't know if I should post this in the classifieds or here. Anyways:

I happen to work for a company which makes 3D-printing machines. Simply put, they can print parts in metal from cad-files. I saw a thread about titanium keys which sold for quite a lot (50$) and there was some interest for other keys. If I am able to pull this through, even a small number of a keycaps is possible and we can make a large number of designs as well. The keys will probably be made from a medical grade titanium alloy. Perhaps we have some discarded material that can be used to make the keycaps cheaper.

A) Does anyone happen to have a 3d model of mx keycaps?

B) Does anyone happen to have a 3d model of the snap on keycaps of the Model M's?

C) Does anyone have access to an exact enough 3d scanner to be able to scan the differrent rows of mx keycaps or the small tabs on the model m covers? I have one which is probably not exact enough since it was made to scan larger details. Here is an example of the clay model i made of a mouse and scanned http://i.imgur.com/qxQZD.png
Some detail is lost and i believe that I won't be able to scan on the detail level required for this.

D) Is there any interest in this? What would you pay for a key of your own design?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Djuzuh on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:04:51: I'm interested, but it doesn't have to be titanium, as those are expensive.

I'm happy with cheaper materials too !

I'd love a 3D cthulhu keycap !
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:06:18: MAKE A SPACE BAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!??!??!?!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: metafour on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:08:13: How about working with these guys for a stepped capslock?

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?32423-Center-Stemmed-Stepped-Capslock-discussion
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:09:44: Why does everyone here get a boner for stepped caps locks? I have not problem with my un-stepped caps lock
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Djuzuh on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:10:46: Something about being old school I suppose.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:11:58: I would pay big bucks for both a spacebar and a center stemmed stepped caps lock.

I'm sorry I can't help with cad/3D scanning.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 14 June 2012, 16:17:46: I actually want a stepped caps lock myself, my current cherry boards annoy me with that. I'll test scanning a key this weekend. Once we have that, the surface of the key is fairly simple. A 2d extrusion up or downwards 0.5mm or so will do. An actual 3d shape on the surface of the key is possible as well (something like the skull which is fairly common)

There are three things needed:
Cadfiles, I can make a semi decent scan or measure it and model it but only the smallest of differences will probably be noticeable (I don't have a stepped caps lock but could probably make one out of a non-stepped one if i manage to get a model of that one)
Interest (seems to be some)
Approval to build them (will ask)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: dmbr on Thu, 14 June 2012, 17:15:16: Interested, but I imagine the price will be too steep for me ($50+?) :(
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: demik on Thu, 14 June 2012, 17:22:15: Wu tang "W" logo
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Loligagger on Thu, 14 June 2012, 17:24:01: How prohibitive would the price for a full titanium keycap set be? What about cheaper materials? Also could something crazy like an engraved design that goes across the whole board be done? Like this for example:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52910[/ATTACH]
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: minifridge on Thu, 14 June 2012, 19:43:58: Quote from: demik;613659
Wu tang "W" logo

my man. +1
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 14 June 2012, 20:07:44: Depending on price points. I would most like an ansi enter key, Cherry profile of course. If not enough interest in enter, perhaps a space bar or top row key.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Java Doc on Thu, 14 June 2012, 20:17:36: If you could make Topre caps, I think you'd get quite a bit of interest as well since we have very few other options.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 14 June 2012, 20:57:09: Quote from: Java Doc;613755
If you could make Topre caps, I think you'd get quite a bit of interest as well since we have very few other options.

IBM: It would be really easy to make the top of a two piece.

I would want about 5 spacebars (for cherry), but I'd only be able to afford 1. Any idea what pricing would be?

Can't go wrong with titanium modsifiers
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 15 June 2012, 13:53:34: I did a quick key based on some measurements I made. It was modeled after the H-key (I typed the letter M which was retarded since they don't have the same shape being on different rows and all). It does not seem that difficult to model them at this point. I will see how accurate thy are if I get one made.

Sidenote: Is there a code-tag in this forum to hide stuff in a expandable square?

(http://i.imgur.com/5d3Rp.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/SAsvm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/9tP8e.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/M5TAg.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/wkG8dh.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/6YdWSh.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Djuzuh on Fri, 15 June 2012, 14:26:41: I don't think anybody will protest if you make the walls thicker (unless it rises up costs by a huge number, or they get too heavy).
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 15 June 2012, 14:30:36: Quote from: Djuzuh;614216
I don't think anybody will protest if you make the walls thicker (unless it rises up costs by a huge number, or they get too heavy).

I was a bit afraid that they would interfere with the switch itself. I might have to model the switch too. The cylindrical piece with the cross sinks into the switch and there has to be some space there. I will increase them to whatever is possible with the switch, thx for the suggestion. I did attempt to increase the thickness of the top surface.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: OrangeJewce on Fri, 15 June 2012, 14:37:23: Quote from: Djuzuh;614216
I don't think anybody will protest if you make the walls thicker (unless it rises up costs by a huge number, or they get too heavy).

Wait you don't want the loudest keycaps possible?! Come on mang! Put these on some cherry greens and clicky clacky away :wink:

Cheers,
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 15 June 2012, 14:57:03: Thicker as requested. Looking at it now, it sort of looked way to thin earlier. I am thinking of redoing the stem as seen below too.

(http://i.imgur.com/06DGM.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/FTlEo.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/XKS3r.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: inlikeflynn on Fri, 15 June 2012, 15:06:53: Quote from: damorgue;613603
I happen to work for a company which makes 3D-printing machines.

Stratasys? or somewhere else?

That render you did is looking nice!

It needs some clearance for the switch, but not a whole lot depth wise. The ClickClack custom skull keys have only a tiny stem visible....although they do sit a little bit higher than other keys too
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: digitalleftovers on Fri, 15 June 2012, 16:17:34: That is a really interesting idea for the stem. I don't own any metal caps, but I have read complaints from others about their fit on cherry stems. Some people end up putting a thin sheet of plastic over the stem and squishing the cap over it to give a tighter fit, since the metal fitting must be slightly larger and is sometimes a little too large for the stem. I'm curious if your design would allow for a tighter fit, and reduce friction from taking the cap on and off.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Fri, 15 June 2012, 16:24:34: Quote from: digitalleftovers;614288
That is a really interesting idea for the stem. I don't own any metal caps, but I have read complaints from others about their fit on cherry stems. Some people end up putting a thin sheet of plastic over the stem and squishing the cap over it to give a tighter fit, since the metal fitting must be slightly larger and is sometimes a little too large for the stem. I'm curious if your design would allow for a tighter fit, and reduce friction from taking the cap on and off.

Yea feng's aluminum keys were like this, and some fit perfect and some where loose and some where too tight. I'm not sure what the tolerance is on damorgue's machine, but I would rather them all be a little lose and go with the plastic approach than too tight. But if the tooling is precise enough to make a perfect fit that would me awesome!
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 15 June 2012, 16:27:28: I like my women the opposite I like my metal keycaps; I'd rather the keycap be too lose than to tight

;)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Djuzuh on Fri, 15 June 2012, 16:38:49: Quote from: i3oilermaker;614293
Yea feng's aluminum keys were like this, and some fit perfect and some where loose and some where too tight. I'm not sure what the tolerance is on damorgue's machine, but I would rather them all be a little lose and go with the plastic approach than too tight. But if the tooling is precise enough to make a perfect fit that would me awesome!

I hade one who was too tight, to the point It didn't fit.

I simply pushed the 4 stems appart with some sort of conical metal thingie (think, the end of a pen). I just inserted it and pushed hard.

Now it fits perfectly.

It's a bit harder however if the key fits too lose :/.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 15 June 2012, 17:16:52: Quote from: Djuzuh;614305
I hade one who was too tight, to the point It didn't fit.

I simply pushed the 4 stems appart with some sort of conical metal thingie (think, the end of a pen). I just inserted it and pushed hard.

Now it fits perfectly.

It's a bit harder however if the key fits too lose :/.

A pair of pliers would probably do, just push them together.

Did a quick stepped caps lock, didn't quite like how it turned out. I have no stepped caps lock for cherry keys so I took some inspiration from the caps lock of a model m.

(http://i.imgur.com/tzdUw.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/COSiD.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/UyFzP.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/P878N.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 15 June 2012, 19:18:31: Quote from: Djuzuh;613604
I'm interested, but it doesn't have to be titanium, as those are expensive.

I'm happy with cheaper materials too !

I'd love a 3D cthulhu keycap !

I suppose it would look something like the image below. I found a model already made which I suppose is the one you were looking for.
(http://i.imgur.com/Iau5S.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 15 June 2012, 19:28:07: Quote from: dmbr;613654
Interested, but I imagine the price will be too steep for me ($50+?) :(
I suppose they could be made cheaper than 50, depends on several factors. How many do you think could be sold if they cost $30-40?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: megnin on Fri, 15 June 2012, 19:32:06: Dude! Those are awesome. I have a few questions.

1. Can you make them fit properly? (there was some issue of some aluminum keys being too tight)
2. What kind of volume can you produce? (1 per week, a thousand a day?)
3. What price range would make it feasable for you? From a simple blank 1x1, modifiers, space bar, to something like that 3D cthulhu keycap thing in the picture above. That's weird, but it's cool.
4. What sort of finishes can you produce? Your models have from a smooth to pebbled finishes.

Thanks!
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 15 June 2012, 20:09:47: Quote from: megnin;614410
Dude! Those are awesome. I have a few questions.

1. Can you make them fit properly? (there was some issue of some aluminum keys being too tight)
2. What kind of volume can you produce? (1 per week, a thousand a day?)
3. What price range would make it feasable for you? From a simple blank 1x1, modifiers, space bar, to something like that 3D cthulhu keycap thing in the picture above. That's weird, but it's cool.
4. What sort of finishes can you produce? Your models have from a smooth to pebbled finishes.

Thanks!

This is highly speculative.
1) Not sure, I will have to test this. Here in lies the problem, I may have to make a couple to get them right. If I do, it will be rather easy to reproduce.
2) If the quantities are large and there is enough profit, the company might get interested. The market is unfortunately small and as such, I am quite certain that this will be more of a small project by me. I may get to throw in a couple to be made and be done with it. One machine could make, say 1000 a day, if it really comes to that. If it does, I may be able to get support from the company. Do you really believe the market to be that large?
3) I don't really know, but I thought I would check interest for $50 per 1x1key, see how many that are interested at different price points to estimate if the project is feasible.
4) People called some of my earlier print screens 'renderings' even though they were straight from modeling. I decided to make a more representative image with cthulhu. Unless polished, they will most likely look sandblasted, a bit more matte than the cthulhu image. I will prepare a key and see if I can't get it printed as a reference.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Fri, 15 June 2012, 20:39:28: I love the stepped caps!!! I think you will get lots of interest with these!
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: suprsmo on Fri, 15 June 2012, 21:23:16: Someone post a universal space bar and one of the titanium ones

I find it odd that there I was only a week or 2 before wondering how I can get my hands on one of Feng's sourced titanium space bars..

And then bam.. two different threads open up on the same day.

I think I got a bit carried away, as I saw this one first.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 16 June 2012, 04:27:34: Quote from: suprsmo;614467
Someone post a universal space bar and one of the titanium ones

I'd buy atleast three!

Spacebar
I'd need some measurements to make it compatible with others.
(http://i.imgur.com/uXdIIh.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/kCbYM.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/kNwT6.png)

(http://gyazo.com/5349c4a389655be0da0192ef4fd93607.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 16 June 2012, 09:23:19: A space bar supported by a larger number of boards.
6.25 units (118mm wide, 3 mounts, no center mount)
6.25 units (118mm wide, 3 mounts, 50mm apart)
6.25 units (118mm wide, 3 mounts, 40mm apart)
The rest of the 6.25 units wide designs interfere with these. I don't see how a universal one could be made.
(http://i.imgur.com/T1KaWh.png)

Saw another variation on the caps lock
(http://i.imgur.com/53cGo.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 16 June 2012, 09:24:13: A space bar supported by a larger number of boards.
6.25 units (118mm wide, 3 mounts, no center mount)
6.25 units (118mm wide, 3 mounts, 50mm apart)
6.25 units (118mm wide, 3 mounts, 40mm apart)
The rest of the 6.25 units wide designs interfere with these. I don't see how a universal one could be made.
(http://i.imgur.com/T1KaWh.png)

Saw another variation on the caps lock
(http://i.imgur.com/53cGo.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 16 June 2012, 10:09:04: I like stem #1, though proposal #2 looks nice and may be more practical. The reason I like #1 is that it's cot a bit of a bevel surrounding the stem, which helps to eliminate probably the most important stress raiser on the keycap.

How are these made? SLS?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 16 June 2012, 10:15:28: ofc, those can be added to stem#2 as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/d6LOC.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Djuzuh on Sat, 16 June 2012, 10:16:34: Very interested by a price quote for a spacebar.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 16 June 2012, 10:20:13: I decided to make a model m key cap cover.
(http://i.imgur.com/0OCZE.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 19 June 2012, 05:16:07: Quote from: damorgue;614723
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/T1KaWh.png)

A universal titanium spacebar to go on my 3494... I NEEDS THE PRECIOUS!... Please?...

None of the other ones have the shafts in the right places, but it looks like this one does.

What would the price be, and what finishes can you do?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: dko2o on Tue, 19 June 2012, 05:58:01: space bar really looks really nice and step caps, would be interested in this. what would be the prices?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 19 June 2012, 08:18:28: i like where this is going. can you get enough time on the machine to make a prototype? :)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: fantus on Tue, 19 June 2012, 12:38:48: If you could do a topre space bar made of metal, that would be awesome :D
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: imersa on Tue, 19 June 2012, 15:05:55: defo interested in a space bar!
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 21 June 2012, 13:29:57: Quote from: imersa;617167
defo interested in a space bar!

I will definitely make a couple. I have gotten permission to print a couple. Unfortunately there is a holiday atm, and I made an error in a file conversion. which resulted in an inaccurate mesh. I will most likely have some prototypes by Tuesday.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Djuzuh on Thu, 21 June 2012, 13:31:52: Quote from: damorgue;618753
I will definitely make a couple. I have gotten permission to print a couple. Unfortunately there is a holiday atm, and I made an error in a file conversion. which resulted in an inaccurate mesh. I will most likely have some prototypes by Tuesday.

HOORAY \o/
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 21 June 2012, 13:33:12: want dat space
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Thu, 21 June 2012, 13:44:36: I want dat stepped caps!

Any updates on this effort?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 21 June 2012, 14:01:26: Quote from: i3oilermaker;618775
I want dat stepped caps!

Any updates on this effort?

I have made meshes of them. Do you prefer the logo, one row text or two row text? Also, size and font?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Thu, 21 June 2012, 14:04:36: Quote from: damorgue;618787
I have made meshes of them. Do you prefer the logo, one row text or two row text? Also, size and font?

I think the two row text (like real cherry mx keys) is the best, but I'll take what I can get my greasy fingers on.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Netdewt on Thu, 21 June 2012, 14:22:24: Quote from: damorgue;614635
universal spacebar picture.

This.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Thu, 21 June 2012, 14:26:43: HE MEANT THIS

(http://i.imgur.com/T1KaWh.png)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Netdewt on Thu, 21 June 2012, 14:32:11: I actually did. Sorry.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Thu, 21 June 2012, 14:48:42: No problem.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: silat on Thu, 21 June 2012, 15:34:57: Quote from: damorgue;614429
This is highly speculative.
2) If the quantities are large and there is enough profit, the company might get interested. The market is unfortunately small and as such, I am quite certain that this will be more of a small project by me. I may get to throw in a couple to be made and be done with it. One machine could make, say 1000 a day, if it really comes to that. If it does, I may be able to get support from the company. Do you really believe the market to be that large?

I would bet that the market for these will be relatively small. But you can count me in:)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Thu, 21 June 2012, 16:00:30: Can you do the finish that came on the titanium spacebars that were sold a long time ago? Those were super shiny and awesome.

Universal on the bottom.

(http://i.imgur.com/T1KaWh.png)

Super shiny on top.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40730&d=1329373284)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 21 June 2012, 17:17:29: Quote from: The_Ed;618878
Can you do the finish that came on the titanium spacebars that were sold a long time ago? Those were super shiny and awesome.

Universal on the bottom.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/T1KaWh.png)

Super shiny on top.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40730&d=1329373284)

That finish looks like it would take some fine sanding and then buffing to receive. Of course it could be done, but mirror finish is labor intensive. How much did the space bars like the one in your image cost?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Djuzuh on Thu, 21 June 2012, 17:19:49: Quote from: damorgue;618948
That finish looks like it would take some fine sanding and then buffing to receive. Of course it could be done, but mirror finish is labor intensive. How much did the space bars like the one in your image cost?

Don't ask don't tell xD.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: imersa on Thu, 21 June 2012, 17:47:11: Could be my best option with the titanium ones being impossible to get :R
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Thu, 21 June 2012, 17:58:53: If I remember correctly - They were originally cheaper (75-85?), but the final batch sold for $100.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: imersa on Thu, 21 June 2012, 18:24:53: Yesir
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: graboy on Thu, 21 June 2012, 23:45:18: Sweet, probably not going to order any, but I'm also probably going to wish I did. I think most people are more interested in a material like aluminum, titanium truly is unnessicarry. Also, aluminum has a much larger spectrum of anodization colors, if anyone was going to anodize theirs afterwards.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 21 June 2012, 23:47:08: i'm perfectly happy doing the finishing myself by hand. i suspect it's easier for me to put a bunch of elbow grease and some sandpaper to it than it would be for you to quickly finish a batch of them without a dedicated shop.

aluminum is certainly much easier to finish, but the advantage of titanium is 1) cool 2) takes much better advantage of the 3d printing process. you can just mill aluminum spacebars all day long. 3d printing titanium otoh is the only way you're going to be able to make more than a few at a time.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 22 June 2012, 00:05:37: Aluminum is excellent, don't get me wrong but I'd rather have something more unique like titanium
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 22 June 2012, 00:34:44: Titanium spacebars are in this thread. Go to the other thread for aluminum or stainless steel spacebars -> http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?32486-IC-Stainless-Steel-or-Aluminum-SpaceBar (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?32486-IC-Stainless-Steel-or-Aluminum-SpaceBar)

Titanium, universal, AND shiny like the previous ones will make me spend a lot of money.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 22 June 2012, 07:29:00: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?28983-Make-a-Topre-CherryMX-dual-use-keycap&highlight=CherryMX
Just going to post that here as a reminder. It may be possible.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 22 June 2012, 07:38:42: MX and topre compatible? I think it's impossible to do both without it being loose for both as well. Prove me wrong and your sales/profits will increase. Otherwise if there's enough interest you could do a universal topre spacebar. After the universal MX spacebar of course.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 22 June 2012, 08:36:38: it seems pretty possible actually. the trick is that even though the MX key shaft is specc'd at a certain diameter, the keys will happily accept larger diameter shafts, as long as the cross shaped notches have the right width. to try, i'd start with a topre shaft, then fill in enough of the circle to allow mounting on the horizontal bit of the MX switch stem. it might be a little loose on one axis on an MX stem, but it should still perfectly fit a topre slider.

edit: also, this is probably why nothing really came of the dremel experiment in the linked thread. you can't just remove bits from an MX key shaft. you have to add bits to a topre shaft, which means a new mold/model.

thankfully, this fellow has exactly the tool for quickly prototyping such a thing :)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: OPTiK on Fri, 22 June 2012, 09:23:32: I want that chulu key!! (the first one with like the whole model as opposed to just the one with his head poking up alittle)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 22 June 2012, 18:39:14: I'm also in agreement with the get the size and mounting right, end user can deal with finish if it keeps the price down by a considerable amount. I also have no problem with doing some fine sanding / buffing work. I don't want to be doing things like taking random tools to the stem mount to make it fit work though. I've seen too many complaints about some metal caps either not fitting on, or falling off constantly. Getting that right is much more important.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 22 June 2012, 20:22:00: What about a premium for the people who want it polished to a shine like the last batch?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: RotaryFist on Fri, 22 June 2012, 21:36:51: That cthulhu key is so cute! I didn't even know that could be done! I had never imagined the possibilities with creating keys. I would be interested in a stepped caps lock key and if possible the cthulhu. But is titanium the only option you have?
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 22 June 2012, 22:17:56: Quote from: The_Ed;619954
What about a premium for the people who want it polished to a shine like the last batch?

I'm sure someone would offer polishing services much like the soldering service for the Poker DIY kits. I wouldn't mind polishing a spacebar for a small fee
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 25 June 2012, 12:32:38: I made a quickie spreadsheet. It is in the first post as well.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/embeddedform?formkey=dGdBUDZSME10NHFDV09FYm96eXR4ZHc6MQ
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Mon, 25 June 2012, 12:39:14: Filled Out Survey - Go team stepped caps lock!
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 25 June 2012, 12:42:49: Quote from: i3oilermaker;621649
Filled Out Survey - Go team stepped caps lock!
Oh, I forgot, you are totally anonymous (Unless you are the first and shout it out loud)
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: RotaryFist on Mon, 25 June 2012, 12:45:15: Whoa so you would do requests for custom keys? What programs would you use to make custom shapes? I am wondering if I could get a template and just mess with it on blender. I am not familiar with any cad software. I want to make a bunny esc key
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 25 June 2012, 12:48:38: Quote from: ikayama;621652
Whoa so you would do requests for custom keys? What programs would you use to make custom shapes? I am wondering if I could get a template and just mess with it on blender. I am not familiar with any cad software. I want to make a bunny esc key

I could give you a mesh to mess around with. I actually modeled an H-key, so I will need to change a couple of dimensions a bit but I was planning on making all the rows anyway.
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 25 June 2012, 19:40:23: survey filled out
Title: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 25 June 2012, 22:02:38: Form filled.

Does the smooth finish mean the shiny finish of the previous batch of spacebars?
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Fri, 20 July 2012, 13:40:57: Let's revive this conversation here since Deskthority archived it.

I am really hopeful this turns in to a GB soon!
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 21 July 2012, 13:51:44: I have selected the proper tolerances for the stem fitting etc:
(http://i.imgur.com/73pKJ.jpg)
I am experimenting with finishes although summer vacations have begun. Does anyone happen to work in electropolishing? Titanium is resistant, and there aren't many places that will treat it. Anodizing of titanium is a bit more common, but still not found everywhere.

Edit: The surface looks a bit ruffer than it is. Here is a shot compared to a round3 cap:
(http://i.imgur.com/PbczG.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 21 July 2012, 13:53:45: unfortunately the only people we know that work in titanium are in china. treble318 doesn't typically work in titanium, but he might have US contacts that will do finish work for it.

the rough surface just-post-extrusion is pretty durable, isn't it? honestly, that's enough for me. i'd be quite jazzed to have a roughly surfaced titanium spacebar for mx and topre.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 21 July 2012, 14:31:35: Anyone based in Chicago?
http://www.ableelectropolishing.com/titanium-anodizing.htm
http://www.ableelectropolishing.com/titanium-finishing

They seem to offer free samples, as in send in and get electropolished and/or anodized.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 21 July 2012, 15:12:56: Quote from: damorgue on Sat, 21 July 2012, 14:31:35
Anyone based in Chicago?
http://www.ableelectropolishing.com/titanium-anodizing.htm
http://www.ableelectropolishing.com/titanium-finishing

They seem to offer free samples, as in send in and get electropolished and/or anodized.

I'm pretty sure i3oilermaker is in Chicago
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: i3oilermaker on Sat, 21 July 2012, 16:59:25: I am in Chicago...that place is not really close to me, but if we make a deal with them I can do drop off/pickups.

I would think damorgue could just send them the keys directly. I would be happy to pick them up and then send them out to GBers

Also think the rough surface is kind of cool :)
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: fartq on Sat, 21 July 2012, 19:40:33: yah, i have to say i like the rough surface. how much to do a small run of filco spacebars damorgue? i'd really like a rough black one to go with my kbc pbt set and black acrylic phantom.. we could throw a GH logo on the top and make it a limited edition ;)
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Halverson on Sun, 22 July 2012, 00:39:15: Voting up Mkawa's idea. Sexy GH rough titanium space bar makes me drool.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 22 July 2012, 17:20:57: I'm really loving how rough it is. Like PBT but better. I think Ideally (for me) it'd be smooth/polished, like that Titanium spacebar china came out with a while ago (Tsangan has one, I think?) but this is a very close second.

I just don't like the super-rough metals as much for corrosion reasons (Much greater surface area). But they feel great, I'm sure.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 22 July 2012, 17:36:50: Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 22 July 2012, 17:20:57
I just don't like the super-rough metals as much for corrosion reasons (Much greater surface area). But they feel great, I'm sure.

This alloy won't corrode easily, or even at all under normal circumstances. Quote from wiki:
The most noted chemical property of titanium is its excellent resistance to corrosion; it is almost as resistant as platinum
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 23 July 2012, 04:23:43: If you can make a full 104 and/or 87 key-set for Filco's, then count me in.

I will buy just about anything, if it's good quality. Having real decent textured metallic keys would just be absolutely fantastic.

Even paying $500 for a set would be cheap.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 23 July 2012, 08:32:00: Quote from: Elrick on Mon, 23 July 2012, 04:23:43

Even paying $500 for a set would be cheap.

For that kind of money, you could probably get a full set which is electropolished and anodized as well.

Edit: I'll see what I can do about sending a couple of samples to that company in Chicago.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 23 July 2012, 16:13:24: I just looked at the caps of Topre, and since they are of the sliding kind, they will probably not be suitable either.
IBM (2 piece type) and MX caps are the ones which are possible to make without a lot of effort.

Someone should make a two piece type for Topre, a single mold for all the keys which you can the put covers on, much like some IBM boards.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 25 July 2012, 04:40:26: what would probably need to be done is to have the slider part be 3d printed out of a polymer with a very precise process and then a metal cap fitted. shapeways metal sintering method (although limited to silver and gold at this point) may also produce smooth enough parts...

anyway, the nice thing about model M keys is that they are single profile, and it would be quite easy to get you a full set of caps (although there are the stabilize sliders to deal with...). for the time being, a single small run of rough titanium spacebars for MX would be awesome
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: demik on Wed, 25 July 2012, 04:51:19: kawa go to sleep its 3am!
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: fartq on Wed, 25 July 2012, 04:52:51: :o
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 25 July 2012, 04:55:50: Quote from: mkawa on Wed, 25 July 2012, 04:40:26
what would probably need to be done is to have the slider part be 3d printed out of a polymer with a very precise process and then a metal cap fitted. shapeways metal sintering method (although limited to silver and gold at this point) may also produce smooth enough parts...
I am certain that their metalsintered surfaces are not smooth enough.
http://www.shapeways.com/materials
They are polished or treated after printing, as stated there. They label their metals "slightly pitted and rough". Unfortunately, getting the tolerances to be tight enough with some after treatment would be difficult, especially since the area in question is hard to reach. Sorry to break it to you, but theirs aren't slider-smooth either. Some of those jewelry you see there has been quite heavily machines and polished afterwards.

Their silver is actually cast in wax molds that are printed and the wax makes them smooth. Those molds are only usable one time, which is why they are only used for expensive silver which tends to be in lower series.

Quote from: mkawa on Wed, 25 July 2012, 04:40:26
anyway, the nice thing about model M keys is that they are single profile, and it would be quite easy to get you a full set of caps (although there are the stabilize sliders to deal with...). for the time being, a single small run of rough titanium spacebars for MX would be awesome

To make the Topre 2-piece, we would only need one single slider, and then have the cover caps be of different profile. THe fact that the model M caps all also ahve the same profile, not just the slider, is only helpful when molding.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 25 July 2012, 05:10:22: ok, fair enough. i'm curious whether shapeways could produce slider-smooth polymer parts though. if someone can put together a mesh i'll happily pay for production of some samples
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 25 July 2012, 05:29:34: They are not smooth either. The good thing is that even though their plastics aren't smooth, at last those won't scratch the outer tube and destroy it. Even though the plastic isn't smooth, it could still work to some extent.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: fartq on Wed, 25 July 2012, 12:38:12: well, i suspect it depends on the material used. the polymer with alum shavings embedded, for example, would probably be harder than the soft ABS/PBT they use for the outer slider
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 24 August 2012, 03:46:31: Cherry's engineers are deliberately trying to screw with me. I made the square stem design I made the same size as the cylinder that is normally used. That is, the diameter of the cylinder was used as the width of the square stem. One should expect it to fit into the hole then, yes?

No!

(http://i43.tinypic.com/12214dy.jpg)
See that little notch in the housing above the stem in this picture. It allows for a cylindrical fitting of a cap to pass into the hole even though the fitting is larger than the stem. If you ask me, it looks like the entire key was designed and ready when they realized, oh crap, there is too little space for the stem attachment of the cap and then they added that small feature afterwards.

Ni biggie, but it means I have to decrease the size of the stem fitting a bit.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 24 August 2012, 08:53:30: well, one nice thing about using a much stronger material is that the whole stem business can be significantly thinner than an ABS cap and still end up being a heck of a lot stronger. i suspect what happened is actually that they increased the thickness of the stem rather late in the design game when they weren't getting the durability they wanted out of the original stem thickness.

girldc has a rather clever solution to this by the way. if you want pics, pm me. i suspect you'll end up figuring it out yourself though (or already have!)
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 24 August 2012, 09:12:57: I have decreased the size so that it is no longer square. It is now the same rectangular shape as the hole, although a bit smaller on each side ofc. I may make it square again by decreasing the width since the material on the sides is unnecessary, as you stated, there is no way in hell that these break.

To ensure countability with switches that are mounted upside down (I have seen it done to move the led to the top), or sideways (for whatever reason), I am going to make it so small that it fits in all directions. I see no reason why not. I originally made them as copies of Cherry's design but I don't need to make the fittings that large because of the strength of these.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 24 August 2012, 09:15:13: Quote from: damorgue on Fri, 24 August 2012, 09:12:57
I have decreased the size so that it is no longer square. It is now the same rectangular shape as the hole, although a bit smaller on each side ofc. I may make it square again by decreasing the width since the material on the sides is unnecessary, as you stated, there is no way in hell that these break.

To ensure countability with switches that are mounted upside down (I have seen it done to move the led to the top), or sideways (for whatever reason), I am going to make it so small that it fits in all directions. I see no reason why not. I originally made them as copies of Cherry's design but I don't need to make the fittings that large because of the strength of these.
yep! that's what girldc does as well. perfect!
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: __red__ on Mon, 27 August 2012, 14:55:00: Quote from: damorgue on Sat, 16 June 2012, 10:20:13
I decided to make a model m key cap cover.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/0OCZE.png)

Would you be willing to share the .stl for that IBM Model M cap? I have a reprap that I'd love to try printing it on.

Thanks,

__red__
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 27 August 2012, 16:49:21: Sure, but I didn't spend as much time on that one yet, as I have been focusing on the MX caps. As a matter in fact, I have pretty much only done the outside of that one and I will need to model the inside from the outside of the cap underneath, to make it fit better. If it is for testing purposes to see if your reprap would be capable of doing it, I can send you the one I have now.
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: Tristor on Sat, 29 September 2012, 11:33:13: I've just got a Ducky Shine II, and the one thing I really don't like about it is the keycaps... they seem significantly flimsier than the keycaps that are on my Deck Legend or the two-piece caps on my Unicomps and Model Ms. The problem with almost all the other keycap replacements available is that they're not designed with backlights in mind. If you were to make a set that optionally is laser cut with clear plastic of some kind inserted so that the backlight would shine through, I'd be interested in purchasing a full set. After you have samples, I'd be interested to see what the weight difference between a titanium key vs an ABS or PBT standard key is, and also what the impact resistance changes to (I believe a good mechanical keyboard should be able to double as a weapon in a pinch and still be functional afterwards without repair).

Thanks!
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: razorsharpgears on Tue, 18 December 2012, 23:49:27: What's the progress on this project?
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: The_Ed on Wed, 19 December 2012, 01:00:51: Titanium spacebars were already done by Feng/Hammer. I don't know if these 3D printed keys will ever go anywhere though.

(http://i.imgur.com/C01RS.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/CIKqp.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC]Titanium alloy 3D printed keys
Post by: razorsharpgears on Wed, 19 December 2012, 01:53:19: I see, well thanks ^_^