Avatar size

[Jocelyn]

Oh yeah, fake accounts. It's the only explanation why anyone would vote 100x100 

Perhaps it's just becoming more representative as more votes come in overall.

Can the thread title be changed to "Avatar size - vote here" please?

Soarer! I was soooo kidding lol. Anyway, I do agree with your thread title request

[Soarer]

Soarer! I was soooo kidding lol. Anyway, I do agree with your thread title request

I know you were when you called me out, but then you seem sad...

Someone is definitely recruiting voters )

Or making multiple accounts lol

More of this is happening

[Jocelyn]

Just more facetiousness

[Soarer]

Good. I wan't joking about The_Ed's avatar though - it should count as a minus vote for 150x150 

[mkawa]

bwahahaha

poor ed.

have to say though, i see soarer's point.

[E TwentyNine]

Just more facetiousness

"Just a joke folks"

I would think with this polling system the mods could track IP addresses.

[Jocelyn]

Just more facetiousness

"Just a joke folks"

I would think with this polling system the mods could track IP addresses.

I was referring to the sad face Soarer mentioned, but yeah mods could probably do that. Only problem is proxies and people doing airplane mode with their phones, in order to change their IP.

[E TwentyNine]

I was referring to the sad face Soarer mentioned, but yeah mods could probably do that. Only problem is proxies and people doing airplane mode with their phones, in order to change their IP.

This response indicates Soarer was correct in his interpretation. 

[E TwentyNine]

Currently 150 and larger have 38 votes, 120 and smaller have 30 votes. So 150 is STILL the voted for maximum size. If you want 184, then keep your vote at 184, don't change it to 150 as it will do nothing. Everything is aggregated so as to appease the majority.

120 and larger have 42 votes now, while 100 and smaller have 30.  So by your logic it should be 120.

[Jocelyn]

I was referring to the sad face Soarer mentioned, but yeah mods could probably do that. Only problem is proxies and people doing airplane mode with their phones, in order to change their IP.

This response indicates Soarer was correct in his interpretation.

lol wut

Currently 150 and larger have 38 votes, 120 and smaller have 30 votes. So 150 is STILL the voted for maximum size. If you want 184, then keep your vote at 184, don't change it to 150 as it will do nothing. Everything is aggregated so as to appease the majority.

120 and larger have 42 votes now, while 100 and smaller have 30.  So by your logic it should be 120.

Oh I see what you mean now. Problem is that there are different ways to calculate averages.

[Soarer]

Currently 150 and larger have 38 votes, 120 and smaller have 30 votes. So 150 is STILL the voted for maximum size. If you want 184, then keep your vote at 184, don't change it to 150 as it will do nothing. Everything is aggregated so as to appease the majority.

120 and larger have 42 votes now, while 100 and smaller have 30.  So by your logic it should be 120.

No. 'Even smaller' and larger have all the votes, so it should be 1x1. Pick a colour.

[E TwentyNine]

No. 'Even smaller' and larger have all the votes, so it should be 1x1. Pick a colour.

 )  Dammit.  I was working up to something like that, wanted to see the response first.

*shakes tiny fist*

[thegunner100]

Sock puppets anyone? Voted 100x100.

[Soarer]

No. 'Even smaller' and larger have all the votes, so it should be 1x1. Pick a colour.

 )  Dammit.  I was working up to something like that, wanted to see the response first.

*shakes tiny fist*

Bwahaha.

Trying to work out an 'average' would result in all kinds of arguments, so may be it's best not to go there. But... even calculating it to get the largest weighted average currently (at 71 total votes) only gives 134.8 - that's counting the 'even larger' joke votes as 184. If those fools are simply ignored, it comes to 121.8. Either way it's notably less than 150, so ed will argue against such an approach.

Taking it as a contest between the two highest polling candidates and grouping the remaining votes inwards (and downwards, for those in between, i.e. 120 currently) is probably as 'fair' as it can get.

Voted 100x100.

Good taste, Sir/Madam!

[rknize]

I went through the 100x100 votes last night and they look legit.  It's probably folks noticing the change and coming here to leave their vote.

Deciding how to weight them is debatable.  For now, we'll just keep collecting votes and then decide what to do later.   

[VesperSAINT]

Whoa. Lots of discussion in here while I was asleep. Won't be able to read all of it on my phone so will have to wait until tomorrow but this seems to be getting more interesting as time goes on.

[SpAmRaY]

Whoa. Lots of discussion in here while I was asleep. Won't be able to read all of it on my phone so will have to wait until tomorrow but this seems to be getting more interesting as time goes on.

Why not....no avatars taking up space on the phone

[Jocelyn]

Whoa. Lots of discussion in here while I was asleep. Won't be able to read all of it on my phone so will have to wait until tomorrow but this seems to be getting more interesting as time goes on.

Umm buy Tapatalk now! If you have a phone that can use Tapatalk, I'll buy it for you

[VesperSAINT]

Just saw this now. Makes sense why you asked what phone I have ) is it worth getting? I have no clue how it works but posting on browser thru phone is hard work )

[SpAmRaY]

Just saw this now. Makes sense why you asked what phone I have ) is it worth getting? I have no clue how it works but posting on browser thru phone is hard work )

tapatalk is full of awesome its just irritating at times

[Jocelyn]

Just saw this now. Makes sense why you asked what phone I have ) is it worth getting? I have no clue how it works but posting on browser thru phone is hard work )

tapatalk is full of awesome its just irritating at times

It's never irritating. Must be your phone
Regardless it's perfect for when you're not by a desktop/laptop and I'd say I use it 80-90% of the time.

[SpAmRaY]

Just saw this now. Makes sense why you asked what phone I have ) is it worth getting? I have no clue how it works but posting on browser thru phone is hard work )

tapatalk is full of awesome its just irritating at times

It's never irritating. Must be your phone
Regardless it's perfect for when you're not by a computer and I'd say I use it 80-90% of the time.

  sadly this is probably true but I didn't want to admit it 

[VesperSAINT]

Lol! Must investigate!

[The_Ed]

120 and smaller has 31 votes, 150 and larger has 40 votes. 150 is STILL the winner folks.

10 more votes for 120 or smaller would make 120 the winner. 14 more votes for 100 or smaller would make 100 the winner.

[baldgye]

120 and smaller has 31 votes, 150 and larger has 40 votes. 150 is STILL the winner folks.

10 more votes for 120 or smaller would make 120 the winner. 14 more votes for 100 or smaller would make 100 the winner.

How does that make sense when 150 won, it won without any subsequent re-votes, suggesting that the mods use a FPP system... which would currently make 100x100 the winner....

[keymaster]

120 and smaller has 31 votes, 150 and larger has 40 votes. 150 is STILL the winner folks.

10 more votes for 120 or smaller would make 120 the winner. 14 more votes for 100 or smaller would make 100 the winner.

Keep in mind that the way you're interpreting the winner is not the same way the admin/mod team is going to interpret the winner. I'm not even sure why the avatar size had been changed in the first place since the most single votes prefer the 100x100 size. It should have remained unchanged until it became clear after a lengthy period of time that a definite majority, such as 2/3rd of voters, want avatar size to be changed.

[E TwentyNine]

120 and smaller has 31 votes, 150 and larger has 40 votes. 150 is STILL the winner folks.

10 more votes for 120 or smaller would make 120 the winner. 14 more votes for 100 or smaller would make 100 the winner.

How does that make sense when 150 won, it won without any subsequent re-votes, suggesting that the mods use a FPP system... which would currently make 100x100 the winner....

It doesn't.  I and others have already explained how it doesn't.

Can we get the "banging head into brick wall" emoticon on here.

[Soarer]

LOL Ed - you don't get to decide how it gets counted, thankfully!

The trend is moving back towards smaller avatars than 150 for sure.

I went through the 100x100 votes last night and they look legit.  It's probably folks noticing the change and coming here to leave their vote.

Only the 100x100?! That's discrimination, mang!

[The_Ed]

What part of

I tend to agree that votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated.

do you not understand? The votes are AGGREGATED... Rknize is the Admin in charge of this poll, and he has agreed with me on the voting.

120 and smaller has 31 votes, 150 and larger has 40 votes. 150 is STILL the winner folks.

10 more votes for 120 or smaller would make 120 the winner. 14 more votes for 100 or smaller would make 100 the winner.

Of course I expect 100 to have the most SINGULAR votes, but the AGGREGATED votes come to a winner of 150 as of this time. People want an increase, but not necessarily the same amount of increase. Thus their votes are split.

With respect to the margin, it might interest you to know that we had an even larger left margin until I shrank it down on April 29th to recover some dead space.  I had to put some of it back to fit the larger avatars, but it is still slightly narrower than it was originally (by 1em).

AND the margin was DECREASED when the maximum avatar size was increased. So stop complaining already.

[baldgye]

What part of

I tend to agree that votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated.

do you not understand? The votes are AGGREGATED... Rknize is the Admin in charge of this poll, and he has agreed with me on the voting.

Do you not understand?
How can you aggregate the votes for different sizes without another vote? If larger avatars won out-right then there would be another vote and another Poll trying to work out which of the larger size people want.
Instead the one that won for the moment was simply picked and made the current limit, that's not how aggregation works.

With respect to the margin, it might interest you to know that we had an even larger left margin until I shrank it down on April 29th to recover some dead space.  I had to put some of it back to fit the larger avatars, but it is still slightly narrower than it was originally (by 1em).

AND the margin was DECREASED when the maximum avatar size was increased. So stop complaining already.

Oh my mistake, you can't read.

[E TwentyNine]

What part of

I tend to agree that votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated.

do you not understand? The votes are AGGREGATED... Rknize is the Admin in charge of this poll, and he has agreed with me on the voting.

The current size is 150.   Using the guidelines "votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated":

Make it less than 150: 31

Keep it the same: 23

Make it greater than 150: 17

So by those guidelines we should go to something less than 150, as it has the most votes.

Using aggregation in this manner is a poor method and results in a constantly shifting vote count.

[baldgye]

I also like how ed's post makes it look like hes arguing with himself

[The_Ed]

The current size is 150.   Using the guidelines "votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated":

Make it less than 150: 31

Keep it the same: 23

Make it greater than 150: 17

So by those guidelines we should go to something less than 150, as it has the most votes.

Using aggregation in this manner is a poor method and results in a constantly shifting vote count.

By your logic it would go into an infinite loop because once changed to 120 the votes would turn to 29/2/40 and need to be changed back to 150... The votes are aggregated into 2 groups, not 3...

[Soarer]

Ed doesn't understand that rknize's comment about aggregation was ambiguous, and yeah, it's up to him so he could choose to slice it some other way.

Currently Ed is just trying to gerrymander the 120 votes into at least being 'not 100'... this is exactly what rknize's comment was unclear about.

I can't argue that when then change was made 150 was winning. I did argue that not enough votes had been cast to make it valid, and I'd still argue that that's the case. I say avatars should not have changed size so quickly, and by so much. In fact, the poll should still be interpreted as "should we increase the size from 100", IMO.

[E TwentyNine]

The current size is 150.   Using the guidelines "votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated":

Make it less than 150: 31

Keep it the same: 23

Make it greater than 150: 17

So by those guidelines we should go to something less than 150, as it has the most votes.

Using aggregation in this manner is a poor method and results in a constantly shifting vote count.

By your logic it would go into an infinite loop because once changed to 120 the votes would turn to 29/2/40 and need to be changed back to 150... The votes are aggregated into 2 groups, not 3...

Not my logic.  Your logic.    But that's exactly what I mean when I say "constantly shifting vote count".

OK, let's use two groups.  To achieve the best majority here, you'd need to find the point where the difference between the two higher/lower groups is the least. 

At 150:  Less: 31, More: 17, difference of 14.  Not bad.

Try it at 120: Less: 29, More: 40.  Difference of 11.  Even better

Try it at 100: Less: 3, More: 42.  Difference of 39.


120 wins.

[E TwentyNine]

Ed doesn't understand that rknize's comment about aggregation was ambiguous, and yeah, it's up to him so he could choose to slice it some other way.

Currently Ed is just trying to gerrymander the 120 votes into at least being 'not 100'... this is exactly what rknize's comment was unclear about.

I can't argue that when then change was made 150 was winning. I did argue that not enough votes had been cast to make it valid, and I'd still argue that that's the case. I say avatars should not have changed size so quickly, and by so much. In fact, the poll should still be interpreted as "should we increase the size from 100", IMO.

That's why I structured the hi/lo count in the way I did in my post above this one.    If you assume people will be most satisfied with the size closest to their vote, you simply find the voting point where the difference between the people who want it higher and want it smaller is the least and that's the winner.  It removes ambiguity.

[Soarer]

It is logical. So is a weighted average, which (ignoring debate about how it should be calculated) comes out to something in that ballpark (in any case, closer to 120 than 150). With enough votes, wouldn't they be equal?

[The_Ed]

The current size is 150.   Using the guidelines "votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated":

Make it less than 150: 31

Keep it the same: 23

Make it greater than 150: 17

So by those guidelines we should go to something less than 150, as it has the most votes.

Using aggregation in this manner is a poor method and results in a constantly shifting vote count.

By your logic it would go into an infinite loop because once changed to 120 the votes would turn to 29/2/40 and need to be changed back to 150... The votes are aggregated into 2 groups, not 3...

Not my logic.  Your logic.    But that's exactly what I mean when I say "constantly shifting vote count".

OK, let's use two groups.  To achieve the best majority here, you'd need to find the point where the difference between the two higher/lower groups is the least. 

At 150:  Less: 31, More: 17, difference of 14.  Not bad.

Try it at 120: Less: 29, More: 40.  Difference of 11.  Even better

Try it at 100: Less: 3, More: 42.  Difference of 39.


120 wins.

That is STILL 3 groups, and ignores the votes for the "At" group. When broken into 2 groups (which includes the "At" votes) 150 wins.

[E TwentyNine]

That is STILL 3 groups, and ignores the votes for the "At" group. When broken into 2 groups (which includes the "At" votes) 150 wins.

Fine, let's include the at votes:

At 150:  Less: 31,  Same or higher: 40

At 120: Less: 29, Same or higher: 42. 

At 100: Less: 3, Same or higher: 68.

Both 120+ and 100+ have more votes than 150.  How does 150 win in this scenario?

Wouldn't 100 win in that case?  I've already made this point previously.

Edit: And it's not three groups, it's two: higher and lower.  I'm ignoring the sample point I'm on.  But note: "votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated" names three groups: larger, smaller, current.

[E TwentyNine]

It is logical. So is a weighted average, which (ignoring debate about how it should be calculated) comes out to something in that ballpark (in any case, closer to 120 than 150). With enough votes, wouldn't they be equal?

Because we're dealing with discrete values here, while I think the weighted average would approach the same value as my method, doubtful it would ever be equal.

Interesting that two different approaches come to nearly the same result though.

[The_Ed]

That is STILL 3 groups, and ignores the votes for the "At" group. When broken into 2 groups (which includes the "At" votes) 150 wins.

Fine, let's include the at votes:

At 150:  Less: 31,  Same or higher: 40

At 120: Less: 29, Same or higher: 42. 

At 100: Less: 3, Same or higher: 68.

Both 120+ and 100+ have more votes than 150.  How does 150 win in this scenario?

Wouldn't 100 win in that case?  I've already made this point previously.

Edit: And it's not three groups, it's two: higher and lower.  I'm ignoring the sample point I'm on.  But note: "votes for even larger or smaller sizes than the current size should be aggregated" names three groups: larger, smaller, current.

150 is the largest size that the majority wants. You could argue that 50 should win with your logic because 71 want 50 or larger... And yet NOBODY (well 3...) would be happy with 50...

[SmallFry]

So uh... How bout dem kehrberhds?

[Soarer]

150 is the largest size that the majority wants.

And 50 is the lowest size the majority wants  )

There is an asymmetry here, and it's not in the direction you'd like it to be. The fact is that nobody voting for 150 will be offended by anyone who chooses to use a smaller avatar, but the opposite is certainly not true.

[baldgye]

150 is the largest size that the majority wants.

And 50 is the lowest size the majority wants  )

There is an asymmetry here, and it's not in the direction you'd like it to be. The fact is that nobody voting for 150 will be offended by anyone who chooses to use a smaller avatar, but the opposite is certainly not true.

BUT YOUR RUINING MY CREATIVITY ?!!!!!!

[SmallFry]

Question, What is wrong with leaving the limit higher (margin permitting, so 150px) if people still can use 100px, or 50px avatars?

[baldgye]

Question, What is wrong with leaving the limit higher (margin permitting, so 150px) if people still can use 100px, or 50px avatars?

Because we want to suppress your ability to be creative, by FORCING smaller avatars on you.

[SmallFry]

Alrighty, let me change my question. Soarer and The_Ed, what is wrong with leaving the limit higher (margin permitting, so 150px) if people still can use 100px, or 50px avatars?

[baldgye]

Fair enough, I guess reading though the thread would be way too much hassle

[The_Ed]

I don't understand the whole thing myself. The margin is 1em smaller, and people can have 50 more pixels in their Avatars. I guess that some people just want to dictate that other people can't have larger avatars, even though it doesn't affect them in any way.

[E TwentyNine]

I don't understand the whole thing myself. The margin is 1em smaller, and people can have 50 more pixels in their Avatars. I guess that some people just want to dictate that other people can't have larger avatars, even though it doesn't affect them in any way.

Good lord.   Let's allow 500x500 avatars, because that certainly won't affect readers in any way.