Author Topic: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)  (Read 20339 times)

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Offline Camineet

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Hey guys,

I’m excited to announce a new project :cool:  I’m going to do some mods so that I can play Overwatch, teh new game by Blizzard 

Like any gamer, I have been following the development of Overwatch and finally got a chance to try it about two weeks ago.  I paid for the basic version of the game for $40.

After one afternoon with the game, I was utterly enthralled.  All reviews for this game have mentioned how it’s fun to play because of how polished it is.  Saying so is a grand understatement.  I believe what we have here is the result of what is probably one of the top five game companies in the world taking multiple threats to the market space it occupies quite seriously and purposefully investing what I’m guessing is a great deal of the company’s resources to make sure they get this game right.  I have no doubt that this game and its team of designers’ work and budgets received top priority at Blizzard these past years.

The result is something I have only seen and experienced with one other franchise in all of my 35 years of gaming, league of legends of course.  That is to say, a truly competitive experience that is so compelling as to warrant legitimate sporting competition is achieved in the same way it is with league of legends with accessibility such that folks with limited patience and substantial time contraints can participate.  Bravo Blizzard, bravo :thumb:  And, thank you.

While I have enjoyed many games in my life, including numerous single player campaigns, in the last 15 years I have increasingly become less able to enjoy games, whether they be single player campaigns or multiplayer online, if they don’t have this particular X factor of presenting a legitimate competitive experience that can be learned and enjoyed given my gaming schedule limitations. 

This is not to say that anyone who finds enjoyment in other games is wrong.  It’s just that I have done a pretty extensive exploration on this matter for my own needs, trying and making investments into many of the major offerings out there including Guild Wars 2, Eve Online, and a number of the other multiplayer FPS’s.  For those who are interested in a pretty well informed opinion, I cannot more strongly recommend Overwatch in addition to League of Legends.

So, here’s what I found in getting started playing overwatch with the steam controller.  In most ways, using the steam controller achieves the greatest balance between hand health/safety and performance.  There are a few problems preventing me from being able to continue using the steam controller without modifications, one of which has to do with my physical limitations, and some of which have to do with… let’s just say design elements that I don’t agree with.

First of all, I injured my left thumb a few years ago by playing league of legends with an Xbox 360 controller in my left hand and a mouse in my right hand.  Using my thumb to hit the d-pad on the Xbox controller resulted in an injury to the base thumb joint which caused inflammation and mild frequent pain.  Discontinuing use of my left thumb for one full year allowed it to recover such that it no longer hurts at all on a daily basis.

However, I have found in bringing my left thumb out of retirement from gaming to use it on the left side trackpad of the steam controller with d-pad emulation (a particularly sloppy yet extremely low intensity method for WASD character movement – using the actual analog stick for WASD movement wasn’t even an option given the susceptability of my left thumb to probable reinjury), my injury will return.  After one afternoon of using the left side trackpad for WASD movement, I experienced pain that lasted more than 24 hours in the original injury location.  So, continuing to play the game in this way, despite how there is essentially zero actuation force required when just rubbing the left side trackpad around in a small area for WASD movement with my thumb, is simply not an option for me.

I therefore brainstormed and settled on a Sanwa JLF arcade stick with cherry switches for WASD movement which will distribute the workload over my entire left hand and wrist rather than having just my left thumb do all of that work.  My control scheme will be the arcade stick in left hand, and steam controller in right hand.

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(Arcade stick purchased from paradisearcade.com)
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/levers-sanwa/1108-sanwa-jlf-cherry-mod.html

I’m going to add 2 PS Vita analog sticks to the arcade stick.  One will be situated so that I may lift my thumb off the yellow ball top and reach a short distance down and to the right where I will position an analog giving me 4 available commands there.  The other analog will be positioned such that I may reach down with my middle finger to manipulate 4 additional commands.  Having the analog sticks and the eight possible commands available will be important because when moving from using the left side of the steam controller to using the arcade stick, several available command buttons are lost (you can no longer use the steam analog stick, the trigger, the bumper, the backside paddle, or the edge of the left side trackpad).  The placements for the analog sticks are depicted in the pic above with those red circles.

In my previous project, I already established that, for at least my usage, when using thumbs for action commands, PS Vita analog sticks are superior to using buttons such as on the steam controller or any other controller for that matter.  Unless we’re talking about old-school beat-‘em-ups or fighters which sometimes require button combos wherein its necessary to hit two buttons at once with your thumb, PS Vita sticks are simply more comfortable and easier to actuate then buttons (actuation force required is super-low). 

Additionally, finding a PS Vita stick with your thumb when it’s coming from performing some other task elsewhere, and then executing some command or commands with it, is easier simply because whether or not the user has found the stick is unmistakable as opposed to finding buttons (maybe your thumb has found a button amongst the four in the cluster, but it isn’t the one you thought it was).  This is a pretty big issue for the steam controller button cluster because, as described in one of the YouTube reviews for that controller, the button cluster is in an unnatural feeling location requiring a lot of reaching, and in my experience, it is certainly a problem.  Coming from the right side trackpad, the thumb has a pretty difficult time on its own determining which of the four buttons it has found in its tactile search for positioning on the cluster.

I will therefore add a PS Vita analog stick to the steam controller in the place of the button cluster and have conceived of adding a second analog stick as well (again, both depicted in the pic above with the red circles).

I have already opened the arcade stick and cut off about 30% of the spring in order to make it nice and easy to move.  I have also ordered a mod that reduces the null zone down to practically nothing.  As with all things control wise, I want to make this one effortless to use.

the nullzone mod:

https://www.focusattack.com/kowal-1mm-oversize-actuator-for-sanwa-jlf-series-joystick/

A major piece of this project will be to figure out how to house the arcade stick in something that will allow it to be used sitting on the bed or my leg, depending on whether I am bed-gaming or zero gravity chair-gaming.

With a lot of brainstorming, I figured out the platform housing that I need to have made.  And I’ve reached the point of needing to ask my friends here for guidance on what to use.  I’ll need to have the platform made with a 3-D printer, and I need to ask you guys what program I should use to draw it. 

An engineer friend of mine suggested a year or two back that I learn Autodesk for when I need these kinds of parts made.  I have since heard that there are software applications that are likely much easier to use on tablets for non-design professionals like myself.  Can somebody please suggest what I might use to get together a drawing without having to learn something as difficult as Autodesk?  I don’t mean that I want to try to get this job done on my tablet - God no :-X  But I’m really hoping there’s something you guys might know of on PC that is easier than Autodesk

Offline pr0ximity

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Looks like a pretty damn awesome setup. I have a Steam Controller I love quite a lot, super interested in all of the versatility it affords in of itself. Using it in conjunction with another controller is something I've never considered but sounds extremely promising for your use case. I have really small hands and the Steam Controller is a bit oversized as it comes. I'm wondering if the CAD files Valve released for the controller might help as a starting point for you rather than starting from scratch? If your platform will allow for the controller to rest in it some way surely those will at least give a starting point for what that cradle might look like.

Personally I'd love to eventually experiment with making the bulbous grips a bit slimmer, but I also have zero experience with CAD software.
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Offline Camineet

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Looks like a pretty damn awesome setup. I have a Steam Controller I love quite a lot, super interested in all of the versatility it affords in of itself. Using it in conjunction with another controller is something I've never considered but sounds extremely promising for your use case. I have really small hands and the Steam Controller is a bit oversized as it comes. I'm wondering if the CAD files Valve released for the controller might help as a starting point for you rather than starting from scratch? If your platform will allow for the controller to rest in it some way surely those will at least give a starting point for what that cradle might look like.

Personally I'd love to eventually experiment with making the bulbous grips a bit slimmer, but I also have zero experience with CAD software.

Hey, thanks for the first reply to my thread :-*

This project is going to require quite a lot of work.  I plan to make the best possible overwatch control scheme in terms of a balance between performance and injury avoidance/ergonomics given what's currently available on the market in parts and maker tools.  I think I achieved that with league of legends (play every damned night and have no injuries on the horizon), and overwatch deserves the same attention with how great of a game it is.  Luckily, I already have all of the experience and skills needed to do this kind of work with the help of geekhack friends and an absolute devotion to LoL.  So, it won't take nearly a year like it did for my LoL controller.  And overwatch is so damned fun, I really feel the need to get the first version together quickly.



This is actually how I find it necessary to get optimal control for FPS with the steam controller. 


I started using this control scheme with Paragon, which is just too early and needs a lot of work in my opinion but will probably be a great game in 2017.  Anyway, the point is, this control scheme uses the Gyro in concert with the right trackpad for pointer control.  Therefore, although I may have given the impression that I was going to be somehow combining the Sanwa JLF and the steam controller together in some kind of housing, that is not the case.  They will actually remain separate, one in each hand.  That's necessary in order for the steam controller Gyro to be used for fine pointer control (the steam controller can't be fixed or bolted down, you need to be able to wiggle the entire housing).

For bed gaming, the steam controller will sit on my leg or belly in essentially the same location it would be were I to use it normally with both hands.  And the Sanwa JLF will sit on this platform I've designed and will purchase soon. 

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I've probably made the angles too severe on this first mockup, but I'll refine it and probably order two or three versions with different angles.

The idea is, the Sanwa will be attached to the raised arms with the arcade stick pointed at a certain angle downward towards my feet.  I've done some experimenting while laying in bed and positioning the sanwa on my left side.  It turns out that the most effortless way to manipulate the arcade stick can be achieved by angling it downward in this way.  It's strange, but that's just what my numerous evenings of fiddling around and experimenting revealed.  Angled like that, the wrist and hand are able to up down left right with a level of ease that is truly remarkable.

This kind of set up can likely be fairly easily transitioned to zero gravity chair or sofa gaming which is a possibility for me depending on where I'm living and how much gear I've got in tow (hotel rooms where I have nothing but my checked baggage require bed gaming using my newly purchased awesome-as-hell and economical asus g751 gaming notebook on the lapdawg while rented apartments open up other possibilities).

The stupid handles of the steam controller have obviously got to be altered quite a bit.  For my set up, only the right side needs to be dealt with.  I've already disassembled the controller to look at what kind of cutting, filling, and reshaping will be needed.  Using the CAD file that steam released isn't part of my skill set, and anyway, I find the need to use Clay in order to get the absolute perfect dead-on-balls shaping needed for my applications.  Of course, it would be nice if there were more interest in my projects such that some kind of production run were desired.  In that case, I would love to coordinate with others on using CAD files and 3-D printing. 

At any rate, the stupid bulbous handles of the steam controller are most certainly too large and press into the fleshy part of the users palms.  That's fine when you're 22 years old, but it just doesn't work for those of us who are not only older but are also prone to overuse injuries.  Those kinds of injuries can happen not just from using parts of the body to frequently in certain ways but also can occur just from having certain things pressed on in certain ways on a daily basis.  Therefore, I will be hacking off the handle of the steam controller and have already taken note of the line on which I will be cutting :thumb:

Offline Camineet

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tinkercad is ****ing amazing :))
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https://tinkercad.com/things/1W1mRN8l0v2

and it will only cost me like $15 to have this made and shipped to my house.  this is just crazy to me :confused:

Offline Camineet

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tons of work

ordered this for $72 after finishing it this weekend.  seems i underestimated the cost of it ;D

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https://tinkercad.com/things/4q6Mh0NZSc1

the platform started out super easy and then became some challenging work when it came time to marry pieces of a drawing to objects that already exist in real life.  lots of measuring and hoping i got things at least close enough to be able to make any necessary adjustments with a rotary tool or other such cutting methods, and make this thing work :cool:

I have just now wired up the sanwa jlf and teensy, and they work perfectly together.
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[ Specified attachment is not available ]

Now I need to do some research or get some help finding a piece I discovered I will need.

I need to be able to disassemble the device for cleaning and maintenance, and need to find a small plug like the one W11cE used to make the 1st ps vita analog mod here:

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

I need some of these black plugs, otherwise the device will be locked together and arcade sticks need lubrication and parts replacement now and again. 

Can anybody tell me where I can buy these things?
« Last Edit: Tue, 12 July 2016, 17:51:23 by Camineet »


Offline suicidal_orange

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Yeah they look like normal breadboard pins and headers, should be available anywhere that sells anything electronic project related in either blocks (if you need two rows perfectly alligned) or snap off strips.

I'm struggling to visualise this project but I'm watching...
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Offline vextanys

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Quote
I'm struggling to visualise this project but I'm watching...
Same here... though this project and the LoL controller one are giving me ideas for my own keyboard-replacement-controller.

Offline Camineet

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I'm struggling to visualise this project but I'm watching...

could not be more pleased you are watching my work friend :D  oh, there's magic happening.  be entertained by it in coming weeks ;D


Offline Camineet

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I cannot believe this sh*t works :))

We got pretty lucky here.  Somehow I managed to not **** up any of the measurements, which is amazing because I was half awake when doing a lot of the cad work :rolleyes:

So, here's pics of the platform followed by a travel disassembly video

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here is how the arcade stick sits in it.  i just have to affix it by drilling holes and fastening it down with some screws i've prepared

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and here's an action video of the device in use


and here's a video of how the whole setup will be used for gaming in zero gravity chair (or sofa).  bed gaming is similar but with the platform on teh side of the body instead of sitting on it



here's another video of the actual stick sitting on my lap rather than the mimicry in the last video.  it shows that setup is a lot more relaxed and not as awkward for the hand as the last video looks

« Last Edit: Wed, 20 July 2016, 21:17:12 by Camineet »

Offline Camineet

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this weekend i made my 2nd V3 ps vita mod.  my technique got a lot better with the solder, glue, solder, glue progression and got teh whole package a lot tighter.  haven't tested this one yet, but i'm fairly confident it will work :cool:

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i'll be making something like 4 more of these to outfit the overwatch setup in its complete form.

2 will go on the arcade stick close enough for my thumb to drop down and activate them.  that gives me 8 commands on my left hand in addition to WASD

Offline Camineet

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new toy gets a new pelican box, and our mobile workshop is complete and ready for departure :cool:

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Offline suicidal_orange

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That platform looks great, and the joystick very cozy in that case.  I hope you aren't going far though, those tool boxes look like luggage allowance eaters!
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Offline Camineet

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i'm going to be spending upwards of $800 for extra baggage fees according to my ongoing calculations :))


Offline suicidal_orange

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Offline Camineet

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designed and ordered an extension piece for needed stability when pulling back on teh stick.

some steel rod work will be needed to couple this new piece to the main platform

https://tinkercad.com/things/ef1MeTGDGYU

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Offline Camineet

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Offline Camineet

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hey  guys, the results are in.  the setup works very well :cool:


« Last Edit: Fri, 29 July 2016, 19:34:15 by Camineet »

Offline Camineet

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build quality.  solid as ya like ;D


Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 01 August 2016, 15:37:46 »
A grueling weekend of work followed by extensive serious play testing near to the point of psychosis :-X

Late last week after brief proof of concept was achieved, I set out to attempt to complete a late stage version of the device which would allow me to play the complete overwatch experience by Sunday evening. The complete overwatch experience meaning to have all of the most basic functionality available. 

The proof of concept playtest went so well, revealing performance that's as good as i hoped for, that i became highly motivated to do the work to get fleshed out functionality.

Once again, when moving away from using the left side of the steam controller, several buttons are lost. So many buttons are lost, that I actually was not able to use the full set of basic character abilities when using the bare-bones sanwa jlf arcade fighter stick.

The first job was to do a major cutting operation, actually cutting the base plate of the arcade stick. Pretty unpleasant cutting work, but the corner of the stick and the plastic housing were touching the inside of my hand, and we can't have that :mad:

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added alien womb bumper

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Next I had to install a steel rod foundation post and cut a wiring slot for the vita analog installation

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next, several hours of hard a** work and setting up this temporary work-station for the 2nd time in one weekend

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got lucky with the ergonomics.  much of this kind of work is a lot of eyeing and guess work until stuff is actually installed.  there's just no practical way to measure and test the real final positioning of stuff beforehand, especially the steel rod foundation posts.  those always require a lot of envisioning work.

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Action video showing basic performance. I've got the analog stick mapped to one ability, the radial comms picker, and switching between the first and second weapons


The only actions that would be considered required for competitive play that I'm missing at this point is Crouch and check score.

I have plans to add more vita sticks, so i'll get those commands taken care of later.  for now, i have what most would consider to be the ability to play the complete version of the game :thumb:


The video below shows one of the most important design principles from my work in action.

The newer competitive games including league of legends and these arena style class-based shooters like overwatch and paragon are requiring more and more commands be available on-demand in-combat for the user. Competitive play often requires activating these various commands while continuing to move. Having to remove an appendage from its job of moving a character or camera, whether that be a top-down viewpoint camera or whether the camera be a reticule as in an FPS, in order to actuate these commands, can be a serious performance limitation. 

A competition esports gamer must be able to continue moving without interruption when hooking an enemy, damaging an enemy, shielding oneself, healing and ally, or even tossing a ward in the Bush. Kiting and chasing demand this kind of performance for nearly all abilities to the absolute extent possible (there are so many damned commands in these new competitive games that invariably, some of them just can't be activated while continuing to move no matter how sophisticated or well thought out the control scheme).

My league of legends controller achieves this for essentially all important gameplay activities, and so does this new device so far :cool:



It actually looks like I'm not even actuating the vita stick for commands because of how soft the touch looks. That's just the magic of PS vita analog performance. You hardly have to exert any force and the buttery soft yet responsive hardware accommodates ;)
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 August 2016, 15:52:58 by Camineet »

Offline Lpwl

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 01 August 2016, 16:51:06 »
At first you had my curiosity with your sugru controller, but now you have my attention !

Please continue.

This is awesome  :p

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 01 August 2016, 18:14:27 »
 :thumb:

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 01 August 2016, 18:19:31 »
I really must remember to look at this thread on a proper monitor, it's certainly coming on a lot quicker than the last one!
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Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 01 August 2016, 18:59:03 »
ya, we can blame vainglory for android on that slow process.

oh, and i had no skills back then.  everything little technique and method had to be learned. that was a whoooooooole thing :))

Offline vextanys

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 02 August 2016, 03:26:20 »
This does look amazing :)

*Must resist the urge to buy the parts to (try and probably fail to) make my own...*

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 02 August 2016, 08:07:06 »
lol, glad you like it  :)

Offline brighenne

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 02 August 2016, 12:35:52 »
Very cool build, I used to be really into custom joysticks, but haven't kept up in recent years so that null zone add on for the JLF is interesting.

Have you thought about checking out seimitsu joysticks? They're typically preferred by shmup players for their precision and think they would suit this use case quite nicely.

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 03 August 2016, 12:23:27 »


Have you thought about checking out seimitsu joysticks? They're typically preferred by shmup players for their precision and think they would suit this use case quite nicely.

ty for support and for letting me know about the seimitsus.  A performance improvement that I can see as desirable would be to reduce the null zone even further along with required actuation force so that the stick can be actuated after having a stroke, suffering from sleep deprivation, accidentally ingesting sedatives, or just being old AF :))

the setup already achieves this performance fairly well.  but i still have to move the stick quite a bit to actuate it.  i'd really like to be able to actuate the stick by only brushign up against it rather than having to actually move teh damned thing >:D

If the seimitsu might offer this kind of performance improvement, I might like to try to do another build using that. However, I would also probably have to become rich in order to be able to justify putting in the time to do it. I'm kind of passed the point of no return after sinking several workdays already into this platform...

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 03 August 2016, 12:25:36 »
Another video, this time with a different silhouetted kind of viewpoint that I thought looked pretty cool


Offline brighenne

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 03 August 2016, 12:43:11 »
The seimitsu sticks are available with mounting plates in the same dimensions as the JLF so I don't think they'd be terribly difficult to use with your current setup. You may find this useful: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46489

Another option would be to use an optical PCB for the JLF: https://www.focusattack.com/gamerfinger-optical-joystick-pcb-for-sanwa-jlf-joystick/
These end up being quite a bit lighter as there is no resistance from the switches themselves, just the spring under the actuator.

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 03 August 2016, 13:05:41 »
Very nice, thank you. These kinds of refinements are something to look forward to.

It would be nice if a market for these kinds of innovations would come about and present enough demand to draw the interest of manufacturers like seimitsu, sanwa, Logitech, razor, etc., such that they would send me samples to try in these kinds of applications. We see these kinds of customer interactions and blurring of customer roles already with the millions of YouTube videos of guys putting to test various products received for free and showing the installation of them.

This project along with my league of legends controller have run in parallel with the new direction my career is taking wherein I am partnering with David Passiak, author of Disruption REvolution

https://www.disruptrev.com/

on development of a consultancy that, among other things, helps companies engage with their customers in this kind of more collaborative fashion.

David's new book that I'm helping to edit is on the collaborative economy. I'm seeing numerous examples of how companies are either fundamentally leveraging the crowd from inception by way of the very way they are formed and how they operate, the common examples being Uber and airbnb, or older companies attempting to better engage their customer base by involving them in ways like mentioned above.

Unfortunately, when it comes to PC input peripheral manufacturers or game companies like Riot, Blizzard, or Tencent, I'm seeing essentially zero collaboration with the user base on controls. Despite thus far a full year of pretty serious work we've done together here just for league of legends and overwatch, we've heard absolutely nothing from razor, Logitech, anyone with corporate resources, financial muscle. 

as far as next efforts on this project, the squeakiest wheel has to be dealt with first. So, the next major campaign of work will be to address the numerous issues with the steam controller. I expect something like 90 days or more for significant progress on that major piece of work

Offline vextanys

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 04 August 2016, 03:26:45 »
This project is the sort of tinkering existing manufacturers should take notice of...

I used to work for a smallish, but fairly well known input device manufacturer. Some people wanted feedback from the community, but too many (other) people would ignore good feedback on "common" products. To the point that a mouse and keyboard are set in stone, and nothing should change except the fluff appearance (what colour should the LEDs be? why Blue of-course, thats a "gaming" colour) or "technology" (lets go for 10000dpi sensor and 16bit axes on a mouse - which makes very little difference at a 1ms polling rate). Products had target costs and retail prices (which were wildly different) and expensive meant more LEDs and gimicks rather than significantly better parts/firmware.

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:09:08 »
This project is the sort of tinkering existing manufacturers should take notice of...

I used to work for a smallish, but fairly well known input device manufacturer. Some people wanted feedback from the community, but too many (other) people would ignore good feedback on "common" products. To the point that a mouse and keyboard are set in stone, and nothing should change except the fluff appearance (what colour should the LEDs be? why Blue of-course, thats a "gaming" colour) or "technology" (lets go for 10000dpi sensor and 16bit axes on a mouse - which makes very little difference at a 1ms polling rate). Products had target costs and retail prices (which were wildly different) and expensive meant more LEDs and gimicks rather than significantly better parts/firmware.

This is a good example of what Rita McGrath talks about with companies good at the exploitation phase of market opportunities but not strong in other areas such as disengagement for pivoting. Companies have historically also been weak in developing innovation proficiency to the extent that it is baked-in to operations.

It sounds like we both experienced some frustration with this, but surely in the nearish future we're going to see more collaboration between companies and the crowd along with an expansion of the meaning we associate with the idea of a company away from the we versus them kind of thinking that draws lines of differentiation amongst companies and between companies and their customers.

The future is going to see agents of manufacturers joining us in these kinds of projects right here in the forum with us as they are doing so already in other product categories. The category of PC input peripheral however is unfortunately going to apparently be joining the fun later than others. Most of the work on GH seems to be simply ahead of its time.


Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 13 August 2016, 14:55:08 »
Had a distraction for well over a week. Had to do a car audio mod to put some of my old gear into use for home audio that I can travel with little more easily…


Had to quit playing overwatch a week or so back due to not having optimal jump control. Using my set up, the options for jump control was limited to the paddle on the back of the steam controller or one buttons in the ABXY cluster, None of which provided adequate control responsiveness or accessibility.

I've gotten to the point in overwatch that everyone gets to eventually where you move on from the heroes that don't need frequent and responsive access to the jump button. There are heroes in this game that essentially require constant jumping. One of them has a wall jump as a special ability. One of them has a double jump and wall-run. And one of them even has a jet pack that utilizes the jump button as the fuel which allows you to hover. Jump therefore becomes an in-combat command that requires the absolute highest performing control similar to primary fire. It's nearly that important

The paddle is in the right place, but it requires so much goddamned force to actuate that you have to conjure the soul of Lee Xiao Long (Bruce Lee) so that he may perform his 1 inch punch on it :'(   Doing so is not viable when using the Gyrometer for fine pointer control because it basically causes you to pull your reticule away from whatever you're aiming at. Jesus Valve :(

So...

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yet another saturday doing the job of some full-time salaried design engineer with a cadillac health plan while i'm here on a crappy obamacare plan as a self-employed.  you guys are really getting on my nerves.  i just wanna play the damned games.  can you please do your jobs?

The top button is for jump, and the bottom for crouch or maybe something else. I'm guessing the pro players actually use crouch but I have yet to Google that.

In other news, I've begun stockpiling the world supply of PS vita analogs :p

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« Last Edit: Sat, 13 August 2016, 20:51:47 by Camineet »

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 29 August 2016, 16:07:40 »
Hey guys, pretty snazzy update for us :D

got sidetracked for a few weeks thinking i could repair a car audio amp from just after highschool by myself:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/old-school-car-audio-discussion/294810-soundstream-reference-500-repair-help.html

WROOOOONG   :))

much too hard.  so, back to this ;D

i've upped my soldering game with these toys :cool:

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I have gone about adding a pinky key to the backside of the steam controller which I have assigned to melee attack.

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I've also reduced the actuation force of the right trigger by snipping around 30% off the spring. Doing so has reduced the required actuation force by what feels like much more than 30%. The trigger can be pulled with a ridiculously light touch.

You may notice in some of the pics a yellow string looped around my index finger. I found a pretty big problem came about as a result of adding backside keys. Anyone with some foresight would anticipate a problem.  It escaped me until I experienced it.

Obviously, by having keys on the backside, the user is no longer able to grip the control pad with the right hand. You're really only able to lightly hold it in a most ginger fashion.  It's fine for a minute, but after just a few moments of intense combat, the controller will essentially just want to fall out of your hand.  It took me quite a while to figure out the solution to this problem. I was actually planning to build in some kind of arm from the front of the device that would reach out and rest upon the crotch of the hand in between the index finger and thumb. That idea turned out to be foolishness when I realized that absolutely nothing can exist in that space because it would retard thumb movements terribly.

Further brainstorming revealed that a simple finger loop was the solution. Having the finger loop essentially hooks me into the device and allows me to move it about sitting upon the pedestal foot I added as seen here

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The improvement in how well the device is able to be manipulated with the addition of the finger loop is huge. Fingers are able to dance freely upon the backside keys as needed wihout any need to be responsible for holding the device


At this point in the project, quality of control is superb. The three keys on the back are jump, crouch, and melee attack.  As I mentioned in a prior post, some characters use jump almost continuously. I also found that other ground base heroes benefit from near constant use of crouch as in any FPS. I am essentially holding crouch on Soldier 76 throughout every brief bullet spray.

Having such a critical function in such an ergonomically and easily depressable location creates a natural and effective control experience which results in nice immersion along with sheer competitive advantage due to just how well it works.

same deal with melee attack.  i'ts just right there ready to be activated by pinky without any reaching or repositioning of digits.

using the jump key on the backside (the 1st one) for pharah's fuel feather hovering?  soooo natural :cool:

Really, backside keys that aren't hard to depress paddles but rather are lauded cherry switches is a massive improvement in quality of control. Suck it Valve. and suck it Microsoft xbox one elite controller and suck it Scud controller.  You have been weighed, and you have been found wanting ;)

More on the finger loop. I have a great distaste for being hooked into any control device. And I would hope to upgrade the string to some kind of rigid but somewhat soft and flexible rubber appendage of some sort that would allow me to slip my index finger in and out quickly.

The process of slithering my finger up into this string takes a good two or three seconds and often eliminates the possibility of sipping a drink or scratching myself during numerous brief gameplay lulls that would otherwise offer such opportunities :))

At least the words wrist strap haven't entered into the equation here. That would just be…blech :mad:

Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 07 September 2016, 18:49:03 »
Hey guys,

Switching to video, somewhat reluctantly. As I mentioned before, I'm working with some guys who are at the forefront of modern marketing, namely David Passiak, and I need to start becoming immersed in creating an audience, influencer marketing, etc. by actually putting my hands on some of the tools and living it.

Here's my first terrible video where I'm actually talking. Pretty ridiculous, the video cuts off unintentionally, I'm shining my headlamp at the camera repeatedly. At any rate, hopefully I'm still able to entertain. And really, according to everything that's happening in the world as evidence, this is the way to go in order to selfishly create a movement that helps me (and perhaps others as a byproduct) to be able to continue gaming well into our senior years.

I remember there was a thread on this forum about a guy who had reached the end of his gaming life due to some pretty nasty RSIs. That thread essentially ended with no resolution or positive outlook that included the possibility of future gaming for this gentleman. After experiencing the joy and competitive thrill of some of the new offerings in the gaming sphere, I found that thread to be saddening.

I hope to create a movement that helps other guys to avoid wrecking their hands. I didn't want to do this as I've mentioned many times. I just want to play the games. But since nobody else including the manufacturers are really looking forward to dealing with this issue effectively, I'm going to do so for as long as I can :thumb:


Offline Camineet

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Re: Overwatch game controller build thread (Sanwa JLF, Teensy, PS Vita analog)
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 07 December 2019, 19:52:35 »
big update