[GB (almost) CANCELLED] BSP DYE SUB

[meiosis]

Well, 3 emails later, and a big fat nothing.

I guess most people got their money back from paypal earlier. Those who held out like me, trusting the OP are SOL it seems.

I feel your pain sleepy :\

This and the Prof's GB is why I'm not going to do any more groupbuys anytime soon.

Oh well, what should I do then? I paid via bank transfer :/

We can be SOL together. 

You were in profs too? :\ I joined like during the time he decided to go silent

[sleepy916]

You were in profs too? :\ I joined like during the time he decided to go silent

Yes, thankfully I didnt have nearly as much put into the Prof's GB. A QFR and some assembly services. 

[The_Beast]

Note to self: Don't join GBs sleepy916 is also in...


hahha

[meiosis]

Note to self: Don't join GBs sleepy916 is also in...


hahha

What if he joins a group buy you are hosting

[sleepy916]

Note to self: Don't join GBs sleepy916 is also in...


hahha

What if he joins a group buy you are hosting

I am the groupbuy killer! My last GB was the DSA Dolch so whoever is on that beware!

[The_Beast]

Note to self: Don't join GBs sleepy916 is also in...


hahha

What if he joins a group buy you are hosting

Well, shiiiiii

[zenuty]

I hope earlly this g.b refund 

[alixinhzai]

I hope earlly this g.b refund 

lol, I hope too :3 let hope we lucky bro

[kaiserreich]

I paid using paypal but has not seen a cent being refunded.
How to do a chargeback?

[Lu_e]

You have to contact paypal.

Pretty funny this guy complains about people locking his account and getting it flagged.... Yet disappears with no updates or communication. (Thanks)

Like, what did you expect? Seeing as this is how you treat customers. (Thanks)

[berrymxblue]

Well, 3 emails later, and a big fat nothing.

I guess most people got their money back from paypal earlier. Those who held out like me, trusting the OP are SOL it seems.

I feel your pain sleepy :\

This and the Prof's GB is why I'm not going to do any more groupbuys anytime soon.

Oh well, what should I do then? I paid via bank transfer :/

We can be SOL together. 

What happened to the Prof's GB?

[demik]

Well, 3 emails later, and a big fat nothing.

I guess most people got their money back from paypal earlier. Those who held out like me, trusting the OP are SOL it seems.

I feel your pain sleepy :\

This and the Prof's GB is why I'm not going to do any more groupbuys anytime soon.

Oh well, what should I do then? I paid via bank transfer :/

We can be SOL together. 

What happened to the Prof's GB?

whole lot of nothing also.

dude basically vanished. and when people were asking for him in his thread he threw a hissy fit and said he wasn't going to reply to PMs/post in the thread.

IIRC.

[zenuty]

Please Start to Refund.

Time was passed a long time.
I was wait 4 month over.

No answer, No update
How i can refund from G.B organizer ?

[kaiserreich]

You have to contact paypal.

Pretty funny this guy complains about people locking his account and getting it flagged.... Yet disappears with no updates or communication. (Thanks)

Like, what did you expect? Seeing as this is how you treat customers. (Thanks)

The dispute has been closed as the time limit has passed.
Paypal will tell me to F-off.

If I do a chargeback, paypal is not going to like me.
Seeing how paypal is the more common way to pay for stuff around here, that's going to cause me more trouble.

[IPT]

your OP hasn't signed into GH since Fri, 05 July 2013, 06:39:49

Pretty much GG on getting your $$ back.

[feng]

More than $500 is just gone like that... ? Oh my....

[Photoelectric]

There has to be some way to deal with this.  Maybe combine the efforts of your financial institutions and PayPal?  Consult both on how it could be done.

[piraterice]

THERE IS NO WAY TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THE HOST OF THIS GB HAD RAN AWAY WITH ALL OUR MONEY.....

[sleepy916]

I've emailed him many times through his the email that is connected with his paypal. I've still have yet to receive a reply.

I think the time which you can go and file a dispute is 45 days. We are well over that so the chances of us getting our money back is nonexistent. I just think of it as a expensive lesson learned. 

[litster]

Well, there should be a policy here on GH that you can't start a group buy if you have less than 500 posts *AND* have not been a member for more than 6 months.

But there isn't such policy here.  And this has happened multiple times.

[phetto]

As you say, there have to be some sort of rules here. Post count doesnt work, I have seen way to many spammers lately.

[TLSC.wipeOut]

Well, there should be a policy here on GH that you can't start a group buy if you have less than 500 posts *AND* have not been a member for more than 6 months.

But there isn't such policy here.  And this has happened multiple times.

I second this motion!

[litster]

As you say, there have to be some sort of rules here. Post count doesnt work, I have seen way to many spammers lately.

Look for the "AND" in my post.

[Photoelectric]

Well, there should be a policy here on GH that you can't start a group buy if you have less than 500 posts *AND* have not been a member for more than 6 months.

But there isn't such policy here.  And this has happened multiple times.

Nothing is stopping people from realizing that they can't handle a group buy they got themselves into running.  That can happen at any number of posts.  Look at the Prof's situation or recently Bavman's (Phantom PCB GB).  There've been plenty of successful group buys by people with fewer posts than you've listed.  It's all on a case-by-case basis.  We can exclude the team Red Line subforum and Keypop, then if we want 500-post minimum, etc.  Many vendors and people running group buys don't post that much otherwise.  Some are generally quiet but still reliable. 

There's no easy solution to this problem, other than exercising caution and making personal judgements whether to get involved and how much money you're prepared to lose.  Risk vs. Benefit.

[phetto]

Yes I saw that, litster. I just wanted to point out that I think the same.

[BunnyLake]

Well, there should be a policy here on GH that you can't start a group buy if you have less than 500 posts *AND* have not been a member for more than 6 months.

But there isn't such policy here.  And this has happened multiple times.

Nothing is stopping people from realizing that they can't handle a group buy they got themselves into running.  That can happen at any number of posts.  Look at the Prof's situation or recently Bavman's (Phantom PCB GB).  There've been plenty of successful group buys by people with fewer posts than you've listed.  It's all on a case-by-case basis.  We can exclude the team Red Line subforum and Keypop, then if we want 500-post minimum, etc.  Many vendors and people running group buys don't post that much otherwise.  Some are generally quiet but still reliable. 

There's no easy solution to this problem, other than exercising caution and making personal judgements whether to get involved and how much money you're prepared to lose.  Risk vs. Benefit.

+ 1

[litster]

For people who has a vendor subforum, GH's admins explicitly approve them to have a subforum.  And vendors are vendors, they are for profit.  GBs are not supposed to be for profit. 

If you are new and you want to start a group buy, the policy should require the GB to have another member who qualifies to be part of the GB, to cosign it.  It is true that you can't stop someone who is really set out to scam.  A set policies do weed out jerks like this so-called group buy organizer, people who think they could run a group buy but run away when something goes wrong.

[IPT]

Well, there should be a policy here on GH that you can't start a group buy if you have less than 500 posts *AND* have not been a member for more than 6 months.

But there isn't such policy here.  And this has happened multiple times.

Nothing is stopping people from realizing that they can't handle a group buy they got themselves into running.  That can happen at any number of posts.  Look at the Prof's situation or recently Bavman's (Phantom PCB GB).  There've been plenty of successful group buys by people with fewer posts than you've listed.  It's all on a case-by-case basis.  We can exclude the team Red Line subforum and Keypop, then if we want 500-post minimum, etc.  Many vendors and people running group buys don't post that much otherwise.  Some are generally quiet but still reliable. 

There's no easy solution to this problem, other than exercising caution and making personal judgements whether to get involved and how much money you're prepared to lose.  Risk vs. Benefit.

+ 1

lets just be honest, we'll make Bunny do all GBs =)

[piraterice]

I think we all would like to get ur caps rather than get ur money back,but the disapearance of the GB host was a great attack on me.i have took part in 2 gbs,one is the diablo 3 caps started by sherryton who have also been disaprearing for months and finally come to send ur caps,the other one is this bsp gb,and the starter of it just disapeared again.....Is there anybody of gh could ask the starters of gb to pay some money for insurance and when their gbs ended succesfully,the money they have paid will be back to the starters...i think it a good rule for them.

[damorgue]

Is there anybody of gh could ask the starters of gb to pay some money for insurance and when their gbs ended succesfully,the money they have paid will be back to the starters...i think it a good rule for them.

How much money were you thinking of as insurance? I don't think that solution would work at all either way.

-If you did it to ensure that there was enough money to cover everyone, the GB organizer would be required to have a LARGE amount of money at hand to deposit for this. They would be taking the entire risk on themselves and essentially become a Vendor rather than a GB organizer.

-One could do it with a smaller amount of money that that of the entire GB. It is a bit naive to think that this would discourage a GB organizer from walking away with everyone's investments since they will still benefit from this transaction because the amount they put up as insurance is less than the total cost of the GB.

Both of these solutions negates the point of having a GB. People are allowed to get things without one person having to take all the risk and no one needs to have the investment required to begin with since everyone contributes. With this, you would essentially turn every GB into a sale where the GB organizer takes the entire risk etc.

[zenuty]

When is it strat refund.

How i can resolve this problems..
I just want to refund.
I wish get back my money.

Where are you ? ?
Why still not update ? ?

[mattics]

Snip

Snip

I think rather than a deposit, a holding middle man would work (slightly) better, but also has it's flaws... lots of them...

This approach would see the user paying an intermediary who holds onto the money until it comes to paying the supplier. The first problem would be who would be that intermediary, if they were a commercial entity would this even be financially viable? If it was "Geekhack" as an entity how could they collect the money? The potential extra transfer through PayPal would introduce fees and lots of group buys would possibly trigger blocks and freezes from PP.

The second issue is introduced as the supplier needs playing as either the intermediary would need to pay the supplier directly (which could become a logistical problem and see the intermediary becoming a co organiser) or it is an opportunity for the organiser to take the money and run before paying the supplier.

I am really selling this approach aren't I?  )

There is always the possibility that the organiser runs away with the goods which is impossible to protect against.

I think the bottom line is just reiterating what others have said - Group buys are a risk. They are a risk to the organiser who may get in over their head, they may end up forking out cash because MOQs weren't met and they didn't correctly account for this. They are a risk to the buyer as this thread is a good example of. I think most of the time the risk pays off for the majority involved as you get goods that would never otherwise reach the market and you get them for a reasonable price most times.

[Rabbit]

Asking For refund.......

[SpAmRaY]

Since the OP hasn't even logged in in almost 3 months, sadly I'm thinking you all might be out of luck

[elton5354]

If you used your credit card to purchase these, you can dispute this through your CC given it hasn't been over 6 months.

[The_Beast]

Is there anybody of gh could ask the starters of gb to pay some money for insurance and when their gbs ended succesfully,the money they have paid will be back to the starters...i think it a good rule for them.

How much money were you thinking of as insurance? I don't think that solution would work at all either way.

-If you did it to ensure that there was enough money to cover everyone, the GB organizer would be required to have a LARGE amount of money at hand to deposit for this. They would be taking the entire risk on themselves and essentially become a Vendor rather than a GB organizer.

-One could do it with a smaller amount of money that that of the entire GB. It is a bit naive to think that this would discourage a GB organizer from walking away with everyone's investments since they will still benefit from this transaction because the amount they put up as insurance is less than the total cost of the GB.

Both of these solutions negates the point of having a GB. People are allowed to get things without one person having to take all the risk and no one needs to have the investment required to begin with since everyone contributes. With this, you would essentially turn every GB into a sale where the GB organizer takes the entire risk etc.

This is correct. Everyone takes a risk when entering a GB. It really sucks that your money is gone, but you should have known this before entering the GB.

[pasph]

Is there anybody of gh could ask the starters of gb to pay some money for insurance and when their gbs ended succesfully,the money they have paid will be back to the starters...i think it a good rule for them.

How much money were you thinking of as insurance? I don't think that solution would work at all either way.

-If you did it to ensure that there was enough money to cover everyone, the GB organizer would be required to have a LARGE amount of money at hand to deposit for this. They would be taking the entire risk on themselves and essentially become a Vendor rather than a GB organizer.

-One could do it with a smaller amount of money that that of the entire GB. It is a bit naive to think that this would discourage a GB organizer from walking away with everyone's investments since they will still benefit from this transaction because the amount they put up as insurance is less than the total cost of the GB.

Both of these solutions negates the point of having a GB. People are allowed to get things without one person having to take all the risk and no one needs to have the investment required to begin with since everyone contributes. With this, you would essentially turn every GB into a sale where the GB organizer takes the entire risk etc.

This is correct. Everyone takes a risk when entering a GB. It really sucks that your money is gone, but you should have known this before entering the GB.

Yes but can't be "Geekhack: a great place for scammers!" and you know the more the users the more the risk.

[piraterice]

The host of this gb just dissappeared without any explanation or message left for us.After so many words we talked about him,i just want to know is here anybody can contact with him or make him say something about this gb?He just said that the gb is stopped by sherryton,and the bsper keeped all our money,then ,the end?

[Photoelectric]

Perhaps someone should contact BSP and see where they stand on the refund part--if they were paid.  See if they can return the money to someone else from the group buy, to be distributed among those who paid.

[IPT]

BSP can't authorize a return to someone else except for the person they did business with
think about it, how can you as a business owner take money that was paid by 1 individual and give it to another?

[Photoelectric]

BSP can't authorize a return to someone else except for the person they did business with
think about it, how can you as a business owner take money that was paid by 1 individual and give it to another?

You can still contact them and ask for the status.  Better than posting here, because nothing will get done here. 

In this case the person went MIA due to the situation I am sure they are aware of.  So they are still responsible for that money and can still be asked to give information about it.  He collected other people's money--not his own, so you have a right to ask.

[IPT]

Bsp has no clue who we(members) are. How can they give out information someone else ordered? I'd be pissed if a company gave out information. There's nothing that can be done, chalk it up to a learning experience. Not the 1st time a GB gone bad, and won't be the last time. Ive been in some as well that's gone bad (changdrew for example)

[Rabbit]

Bsp has no clue who we(members) are. How can they give out information someone else ordered? I'd be pissed if a company gave out information. There's nothing that can be done, chalk it up to a learning experience. Not the 1st time a GB gone bad, and won't be the last time. Ive been in some as well that's gone bad (changdrew for example)

It's not your money, it's not your ass which was on fire, so you don't give a ****.

But some of us did spent money on this GB, what do you think we should do ?

[Tym]

Any evidence of OP's address anywhere? Mods must have his IP? Worth tracing ? Demand Letter/Law suit? Even if its not worth it individually, pool a small amount of money together? Stop him doing it again?

[mattics]

Any evidence of OP's address anywhere? Mods must have his IP? Worth tracing ? Demand Letter/Law suit? Even if its not worth it individually, pool a small amount of money together? Stop him doing it again?

After a little bit of Googling around the username, location and subject matter. It is relatively easy to find a 'business' which deals with keyboard items which I believe is related to the user. I have also found a similar domain name to the username, the who-is data shows the same address as a few local business listing sites as mentioned above but also with a name and number.

I won't post any info till I am off my phone and have PMd a mod, as while this info is in the public domain it is still personally identifiable info. But it was incredibly easy to find and most of it is probably already known to users here.

[tinlong117]

After some googling, I know where he lives and I know a guy who lives pretty close to kbdvintage.

P.S. Suppose the address on whois is correct.

[mattics]

...But it was incredibly easy to find...

After some googling, I know where he lives and I know a guy who lives pretty close to kbdvintage.

P.S. Suppose the address on whois is correct.

Told you

The address on the who-is is the same as the address which shows on some listing sites if you just Google the username, and the country at least matches that on his profile here.

I think a simple letter stating the money owed is the first, correct step. Any attempt at threatening (not suggesting that anyone here would) would likely cause him to run and if it got to a legal setting in which the money was retrieved would be a mark in his favour.

[IPT]

Bsp has no clue who we(members) are. How can they give out information someone else ordered? I'd be pissed if a company gave out information. There's nothing that can be done, chalk it up to a learning experience. Not the 1st time a GB gone bad, and won't be the last time. Ive been in some as well that's gone bad (changdrew for example)

It's not your money, it's not your ass which was on fire, so you don't give a ****.

But some of us did spent money on this GB, what do you think we should do ?

im talking from a business standpoint.  Stop thinking with your emotions and consider this:  Would you want your supplier to randomly give money you paid them to someone else?
come on man, think rationally for a moment.

If BSP did this, how the hell can anyone in good faith do business with them in the future?
If they're willing to refund $$ to people based on hearsay?

Besides just read rule #1 in the forum:

1) Conflict resolution: CAVEAT EMPTOR. Moderators will not step in to mediate buys gone bad. BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING/SELLING ON THIS FORUM! We accept no liability and will provide no services to buyers or sellers short of providing a forum for organizing group buys. We highly encourage buyers and sellers to reference their own feedback ratings (heatware, ebay, etc), and we highly encourage users to refrain from joining buys organized by anyone but senior members with a proven track record of organizing large group buys. CAVEAT EMPTOR: WE ACCEPT NO LIABILITY FOR LOSSES RELATED TO OR RESULTING FROM POSTING IN THIS FORUM OR FOR ANY TRANSACTION RESULTING FROM A POSTING IN THIS FORUM.

...But it was incredibly easy to find...

After some googling, I know where he lives and I know a guy who lives pretty close to kbdvintage.

P.S. Suppose the address on whois is correct.

Told you

The address on the who-is is the same as the address which shows on some listing sites if you just Google the username, and the country at least matches that on his profile here.

I think a simple letter stating the money owed is the first, correct step. Any attempt at threatening (not suggesting that anyone here would) would likely cause him to run and if it got to a legal setting in which the money was retrieved would be a mark in his favour.

Do you really think GH will condone vigilantism?  Or threats against bodily harm? lol
What if you guys are wrong about the address?  Are you willing to take responsibility for something that happens to an innocent party?

[Photoelectric]

stuff

What are you trying to say, in essence?  Don't do anything at all?  I don't see anyone talking about sending threats or anything like that--quite the opposite.  Why are you so against people getting a resolution to this situation?  Trying to get in touch with different parties to get information is a step toward resolving this.  Posting long negative replies here and doing nothing is not going to help in any way.

[Rabbit]

Bsp has no clue who we(members) are. How can they give out information someone else ordered? I'd be pissed if a company gave out information. There's nothing that can be done, chalk it up to a learning experience. Not the 1st time a GB gone bad, and won't be the last time. Ive been in some as well that's gone bad (changdrew for example)

It's not your money, it's not your ass which was on fire, so you don't give a ****.

But some of us did spent money on this GB, what do you think we should do ?

im talking from a business standpoint.  Stop thinking with your emotions and consider this:  Would you want your supplier to randomly give money you paid them to someone else?
come on man, think rationally for a moment.

If BSP did this, how the hell can anyone in good faith do business with them in the future?
If they're willing to refund $$ to people based on hearsay?

Besides just read rule #1 in the forum:

1) Conflict resolution: CAVEAT EMPTOR. Moderators will not step in to mediate buys gone bad. BE CAREFUL WHEN BUYING/SELLING ON THIS FORUM! We accept no liability and will provide no services to buyers or sellers short of providing a forum for organizing group buys. We highly encourage buyers and sellers to reference their own feedback ratings (heatware, ebay, etc), and we highly encourage users to refrain from joining buys organized by anyone but senior members with a proven track record of organizing large group buys. CAVEAT EMPTOR: WE ACCEPT NO LIABILITY FOR LOSSES RELATED TO OR RESULTING FROM POSTING IN THIS FORUM OR FOR ANY TRANSACTION RESULTING FROM A POSTING IN THIS FORUM.

...But it was incredibly easy to find...

After some googling, I know where he lives and I know a guy who lives pretty close to kbdvintage.

P.S. Suppose the address on whois is correct.

Told you

The address on the who-is is the same as the address which shows on some listing sites if you just Google the username, and the country at least matches that on his profile here.

I think a simple letter stating the money owed is the first, correct step. Any attempt at threatening (not suggesting that anyone here would) would likely cause him to run and if it got to a legal setting in which the money was retrieved would be a mark in his favour.

Do you really think GH will condone vigilantism?  Or threats against bodily harm? lol
What if you guys are wrong about the address?  Are you willing to take responsibility for something that happens to an innocent party?

We are not asking any help from GH, we are just a bunch people who paid money for this GB , looking for a solution

Then,what are you doing? We can't even talk about this thing?