[GB] 16ga metal ergodox cases -- Shipping R2 recommencing

[AKmalamute]

Hi! I live near a shop that is totally metal! I have quotes to make ergodox cases!

Sort of.
Edit, June 1st 2014
Waterjet shop was a miscommunication and will not be pursued further. Instead, I will use the same shop used in round one -- good workmanship, and switchtop removal cutouts are a given.

I still have all the orders added to the form while I was investigating the waterjet shop; feel free to PM if using this laser shop changes anything.
End Edit May 2014

This is a group buy for 1.5mm (16 gauge, 6061) aluminum or stainless steel (304) laser cut cases using Litster's layered-ergodox design. This is the expected thickness proscribed by Cherry for use as a plate, and that was the primary reason for my pursuing this particular thickness for the entire case.

 Except upon further reflection (thanks to tbc for finding that) I've seen that, alone, these almost certainly won't be enough to make a complete case -- you'll need something to use as standoffs. Extra M3 nuts, or a gasket made of silicone -- your choice but I'm keeping my GB simple, which means:

I won't be including standoffs or even screws. Since this is about minimalism, and since I personally was inspired by swill's 'minimalist' case thread, I will also be collecting for / creating a two-layer form. Just layer '5', which is the bottom that sits on the desk, and the plate, known as layer three.

I don't have any pictures linked because I'm at work and also lazy. See thread though. Also I don't have a camera worthy of the name. But I've seen things online that have the texture and color of what I saw. Gentleman, behold! MACHINED ALUMINUM!!

So, yeah. I'm going ahead with this.
Prices:
These are after local taxes but before paypal or shipping.

Aluminum: Classic, $35.50, or $39 full-hand.
Feeling inspired by swill's "minimalist case" I'm offering a minimal case: base, and switch plate only. $14.25 ($20.50 to include the top cover -- consider JD's 'spacer') -- that's in classic, or  $16 for full-hand style, $23 for the 'extended minimalst' that includes the top cover.

Spacer kit: same 16 gauge metal, just enough to help keep electronics from touching anything. Seven or eight will be needed per keyboard: $30.50 / $34.85

And on to the ever popular stainless steel:
Classic, $61, Full hand $66.50.
minimalist classic, $28 or $40 with top-cover
minimalst full-hand, $30 or $45 with top-cover

Spacer kits in stainless steel, $61 for seven, or $70 for eight.

Shipping: I'll be using my own boxes preferentially, rather than 'flat rate' boxes -- eventually costs will catch up with the latter, but until then, costs should be close to the following:
$12 base price: CONUS, one case, aluminum
add $2 per extra case, and $2 if you're getting stainless steel.

for many countries, same math but double the numbers. I'll get an estimate from USPS' site before billing you, as farther countries do indeed cost more.
I'm using .dxf files from MOZ that have both the switchtop-removal cutouts as well as the universal stab-holes. At this time I do not have[E*] full-hand .dxf layer-3 files that have universal stab holes so if someone wants to update that before whichever followup round includes the fullhand form of everything above, I'd really appreciate it.

• EDIT: found & saved. When I include Full-Hand, they'll have universal stab holes.

This is, indeed, my first GB, but my second round of providing cases. PM your questions, or post them in this thread.

Order form   here
Any questions, ask them here or PM me.

* I'm not saying I'm making money, but I won't say I'm not making any money. I have a quote, but sometimes stuff happens. Nobody wants to lose their shirt so my first priority is to be fair to everyone -- including me. As it says on my order form, if these prices are wildly inaccurate, something will have to be done about that. I'm only saying this because of my 1st-gb-jitters but I want to say it anyway.

edit on timing: I think I'd rather have shorter cycles repeated, rather than make everybody wait until Christmas for their cases.

Edit for June 15th: Round two closing tonight. Invoices seem caught up, most (but not all) have paid. I'll be back soon to edit the list of who's getting what.

More

Historical content from the 1st GB

First edit: we've hit she shop's MOQ, and as I plan to do at least one more round, we have the option of calling end-of-orders by 3/16, payment due by then too. Hasn't been called that way, but I'm leaning toward it.

second edit While not everyone wants to go ahead with the "needs standoffs" design, enough have contacted me that I'm invoicing now. About three cases at most I think -- PM me if you want in on what we got, now!! and of course I will update OP when JD finishes his work on this design.

third edit THANK YOU JD we have spacers. It'll probably work. 
folks who have paid are in on round one, and I've ordered exactly one copy (well, seven copies but that's one kit) in aluminum, of JD's spacer. Don't know what it'll cost yet. Current estimates are, that she shop will be done on Monday; that might delay shipping 'til the following weekend but I'll keep you all in the loop.

[AKmalamute]

Edit May 9th:
I've spoken with the project manager; flu is going through the office so that's part of the delays. The fact their 6KW laser broke is another part.

The project manager would like to pass along, that the laser can cause "case hardening" or bluing, of the stainless steel -- so if you try to paint it, it won't stick to that surface unless treated with very fine sandpaper first, to ever laser-cut edge.

I really am in the list, he assures me. Spacer kit from R-1 should be done soon and he's taking orders for laser cutting again. Thank you everyone, for your patience.

Because the ergodox is metal.

More

Older, less-relevant edits:
April 4th EDIT Cleaned, boxed, and in my car. Really. USD$368 to the shop for everything -- including my SS-classic order. I'll be spending some time after stuff is mailed, to closely examine my guesses, and adjust things accordingly. I think I was a little low, but pretty close overall.

_--^^--_

we're having a small "round one" whose parts have been finished. Keep your eyes on this, and the above post, for information about round two. To quote Spamaray, "This could be epic!

JD's spacer has been included, sans quote, but I have high hopes. If you have ordered, and want me to wait to ship your case until you've seen what pictures I can provide of the case with spacers, PM me or comment in-thread.

[AKmalamute]

Entered info but weren't right at their keyboard for "a small round one" :
Tarzan SS-classic, x1
ShrapneL SS-minimalist x1
pd_snipe SS-classic
 - | - | - | -
also: JDcarpe, The_Chemist waiting on spacers
and also: Mashby cancelled but I still have your info if you change your mind 
agodinhost Alum-classic x2 + SS-minimalist x3
latin00032 SS-minimalist x1
Lugoues   SS-classic x1
steam_bread  SS-minimalist
lkong  classic, aluminum (spacer kit specified)
slickmamba  aluminum-minimalist (spacer kit specified)
YUIOP full-hand-SS
geniekid classic, spacers, stainless steel
eviltobz aluminum classic (spacer kit specified)
witbliz aluminum classic (spacer kit specified)
imamofothief aluminum classic
ClickClack123 Aluminum Minimalist

[SpAmRaY]

I don't even have an ergodox now I want one so can buy an aluminum case for it

[Tarzan]

Ordered.

 

[witbliz]

I will wait for this to be available for international buyers

[AKmalamute]

I will wait for this to be available for international buyers

understood.

What country are you in? I'll ask, when it rolls around that I'm at the post office, "what would it take to send this to X, instead?"

Same for other interested buyers ... let me know where you are so I can get accurate shipping numbers.

[justnits]

is there any picture of drawings for this?

10 layers is 5 layers each hand and 4 layers is 2 layers each hand?

i'm from Malaysia.

[jdcarpe]

Ordered. Thanks for this!

[elllit]

[...]

Because of a few reasons, this GB, I ask, be CONUS only. Now, I'm not going to strictly enforce that, but what will have to happen for international buyers is I'll have to wait to get a real-world shipping quote, and then I'll have to invoice you a 2nd time for the difference.

[...]

 

Well... I'll be patient then! Also, we non-CONUS-ers could leverage from the early adopter by seeing their pictures

So, someone... please get a stainless steel one and make pics! 

[Glod]

so essentially the 2 layer per hand case is a skeleton case with a plate, base, and standoffs(not provided) between the two layers? am i understanding that correctly? not bad though

will probably order at these prices, cant really resist as an ergodox enthusiast, love building these things.

[AKmalamute]

10 layers is 5 layers each hand and 4 layers is 2 layers each hand?

so essentially the 2 layer per hand case is a skeleton case with a plate, base, and standoffs(not provided) between the two layers?

Yes, that's correct. All things considered I'm a fan of plate mounted, hard clicky keyswitches so all the designs assume a plate. I'll probably put green MX's into mine.

Y'know, just to be contrary.

Ellit, you're in GERmany ? Deutchland? Okay, EU countries it is ... I hope to get to you in round 2.

And there is a SS case ordered, so pictures should be possible.

[elllit]

[...]

Elllit, you're in GERmany ? Deutchland? Okay, EU countries it is ... I hope to get to you in round 2.

Yes, Deutschland.

And there is a SS case ordered, so pictures should be possible.

Cool! I'm hoping on awesomeness with the stainless steel 

[eviltobz]

What country are you in? I'll ask, when it rolls around that I'm at the post office, "what would it take to send this to X, instead?"

Same for other interested buyers ... let me know where you are so I can get accurate shipping numbers.

i'm potentially interested in the complete classic case in aluminium and i'm based in the U.K. if you get a chance to find out accurate pricing, but i'm pretty happy to wait for a second round if you're not able to

[Thechemist]

Ok I am little confused here. In the OP you put

6061 aluminum, 4 layers, same files as the whole classic case, $23 shipped*

so that means 2 layers per hand this would cover left and right hand. In the order form

Minamalist case -- bottom and plate layer only ($23/ea)

is that each per side or per left and right hand? I ask because in the SS portion you specify

Minimalist; base and plate, left and right. $32

but don't in the Aluminum version.

[mashby]

The steel version sounded really cool, but since this is my first ErgoDox, I opted for the less expensive aluminum one.

You mention in the OP that this GB won't include standoffs. For newbs like me, where does that fit into the design/build of the case?

[Glod]

the standoffs would only be for the skeleton 2 layer case to go in between the plate the the bottom , If he used MOZ litster revision the 10 layer case will just require some M3 thread bolts and nuts.

i was thinking, you know for the 2 layer case you could potentially have an acrylic layer cut (for each hand) to go on the top covering the electrics, with another standoff between the plate and the top. Smoke would look awesome. just saying....

[AKmalamute]

I ask because in the SS portion you specify

Minimalist; base and plate, left and right. $32

but don't in the Aluminum version.

Both metals are the same combination of pieces, just different metals. Sorry to confuse. Left and right for both 304 and 6061, yes.

You mention in the OP that this GB won't include standoffs. For newbs like me, where does that fit into the design/build of the case?

 In my case, I plan on buying a few sheets of 1/16th inch silicone rubber and cutting it to shape with a razor, then jamming the M3 screws through it.

Another form that would work, is going to a local hardware store that carries computer class of screws (so, small metal bolts, not wood screws or sheet metal screws, though they probably carry those too) and seeing if they have standoffs ... either hollow tubes with an inside diameter to let the M3 sit inside, and the PCB, or other layers, would rest against that tube. Or like how motherboards are held off the case, with double ended screws ... just stack those until all the parts are both attached, and not touching.

the standoffs would only be for the skeleton 2 layer case to go in between the plate the the bottom , If he used MOZ litster revision the 10 layer case will just require some M3 thread bolts and nuts.

i was thinking, you know for the 2 layer case you could potentially have an acrylic layer cut (for each hand) to go on the top covering the electrics, with another standoff between the plate and the top. Smoke would look awesome. just saying....

 As to not using standoffs ... considering the difficulty that one guy had using layers twice this thick, I'm betting it won't quite fit without some real hoop jumping.

But adding acrylic of the "expected" thickness, to flesh out the minimalist case into a full case would be almost effective, and very handsome in smoke-gray. But I've had exactly zero luck finding places that will cut acrylic, and also you might consider that between the plate and the PCB, there will be an air gap, exposing the lower half of the switches. You might want to fill that with something -- again, I'm going for thin silicone sheets but I'm sure there are other ways to achieve that.

[Thechemist]

I just put in for an order of 2x Aluminum minimalist sets but when I was checking out a required field on the SS portion wanted me to put a number ( More than one? ) even though I didn't  order an SS case. Also there isn't an option for 0 in the drop down ( and you can't leave it blank either ) only 1,2,3,4, so I had to put 1 in that field even tough I didn't order one.

[AKmalamute]

I just put in for an order of 2x Aluminum minimalist sets but when I was checking out a required field on the SS portion wanted me to put a number ( More than one? ) even though I didn't  order an SS case. Also there isn't an option for 0 in the drop down ( and you can't leave it blank either ) only 1,2,3,4, so I had to put 1 in that field even tough I didn't order one.

Don't worry it isn't as confusing to me as it sounds. There's nothing in the "what kind of case" field, so it shows you're ordering one of nothing, which is what you wanted.

Alternately, someone else added into the "complex numbers" a note that, actually, that was a zero.

[Glod]

i just realized i have the parts to make a sample "skeleton" case i put it , im one of the few people who has a round one aluminium case, the case was crap but the plate layer was still good. When i have a chance ill try it out and take pictures

[mashby]

i just realized i have the parts to make a sample "skeleton" case i put it , im one of the few people who has a round one aluminium case, the case was crap but the plate layer was still good. When i have a chance ill try it out and take pictures

Thanks Glod! I think that would help all of us making decisions about which case to get.

[Glod]

ok i built the skeleton case with the 4 aluminium layers and it looks really good, and looks even better with a acrylic top layer i had spare (which could be any thickness if somehow another buy popped up like MOZ for just the tops only)

having to work right now and cant take a picture but ill have pictures later of my visualization of it, hopefully it matches what AKmalamute is thinking.

[OldDataHands]

One simple approach to spacing each 1.5mm plate
would be to use some nuts which match the bolts
being used to hold the thing together. If this is sized
for M3 bolts (like MassDrop case) then a plain M3 nut
has a height of 2.4mm. 1.5mm plate + 2.4mm nut = 3.9mm.
Two nuts = 4.8mm. Seems like it should be fine-grained
enough to allow clearances to be maintained without
wasting a lot of space.

[Glod]

yeah, thats correct, i used 2 nuts between the layers

[shrapneL]

Hey, JD, where do you get your standoffs from for your 40% case? Would that work for this?

[dorkvader]

can I order 1.5 of these (three hands worth)? I want an extra RH for my gamepad.

[jdcarpe]

Hey, JD, where do you get your standoffs from for your 40% case? Would that work for this?

Yes, they should work. I just need to measure how much space there needs to be between the top and bottom plates. I get mine from McMaster-Carr.

[shrapneL]

Hey, JD, where do you get your standoffs from for your 40% case? Would that work for this?

Yes, they should work. I just need to measure how much space there needs to be between the top and bottom plates. I get mine from McMaster-Carr.

Thanks! 

[Glod]

ok the pictures i promised of the skeleton case which i am hoping represents AKmalamute idea of 4 layers. 2 nuts work find you shouldnt need to buy standoffs unless you really wanted to.




going to have to ignore the spikes coming out because its holding a acrylic layer on top, i really like this look, the combo



a full album of the skeleton case is here, i took plenty of pictures

http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/sets/72157642076917945/

[shrapneL]

Looks awesome Glod!

Edit: Just ordered! Left a little note haha -_-

[tbc]

damn looks awesome glod.  thanks for the pics.

Seeing everything in pics makes me wonder why the original litster even had anything above the plate layer in the first place.  originally, i thought it might have been a structural issue, but now it seems like it was just an aesthetic thing.

from now on, i'm thinking that I will just use the switch plate(stock acrylic), add in the two nuts and just stack all the other layers underneath for both my stock acyrlic case and the metal case

[Sniping]

Doubt I'm going to get my case anodized, so I'll be going for the stainless steel version. Anyone else in with me as well?

[AKmalamute]

Doubt I'm going to get my case anodized, so I'll be going for the stainless steel version. Anyone else in with me as well?

I'd rather have the mass of SS myself, so ... yes. I just have to remember to order an "extra" set when I place the orders.

Thanks for your pictures, Glod. Yes, I think that does mostly look like what I was expecting it to look like. Kind of. You're using a thicker metal, so this would be a bit like a phantom with plate, and with another plate below it.

I think.

[Glod]

If it's that thin how is the 5 layers going to add up for the complete case? The litster case uses a plate thick enough to be flush with the pcb. Should work fine for the skeleton case though (sorry can't stop using the term lol).

[shrapneL]

If it's that thin how is the 5 layers going to add up for the complete case? The litster case uses a plate thick enough to be flush with the pcb. Should work fine for the skeleton case though (sorry can't stop using the term lol).

I think using nuts between the layers might do it, but it might look kinda weird.

[tbc]

it doesn't add up.

everyone is going to need to add bumpers between the layers.

something i noticed when i read about someone sourcing their own case to be thinner than the litster case.

[Sniping]

Is it possible to order 2 sets and just combine the same 1.5mm layers to create 5x 3mm layers?

[AKmalamute]

Is it possible to order 2 sets and just combine the same 1.5mm layers to create 5x 3mm layers?

I have pretty high confidence in this shop's laser -- as I said in the interest check thread, I was shown a block of quarter inch aluminum with a single hole in the middle, made as a demonstration to a potential customer that they could save drilling time and get straight to threading the lasered bolt hole.

So, yes the holes should all line up even if you stack them like that -- and by all rights you should be able to save on shipping, but since I don't know how much these things will weigh yet, I don't know what shipping will end up looking like.

I'll figure something out. Go ahead and order two sets -- just don't try to combine aluminum and stainless  since having the layers rub against each other ... I don't know, I guess they're not energized but I thought you weren't supposed to do things like that since it encouraged oxidation, and would also produce small, random electrical charges or something.

[Loligagger]

For round 2, could this universal plate design be cut to allow for switching between classic and full hand cases?

[AKmalamute]

For round 2, could this universal plate design be cut to allow for switching between classic and full hand cases?

That post has the full-hand with-universal-stabs cutouts that I've been looking for. Of course .dwg doesn't have units so american machines want to print that thing out at nearly three meters across unless you know where to warn the device that's not true.

As to the adapter ... hmm. I might try it myself during round one or something. I'm not a fan of the full-hand design myself because of furniture choices available to me but maybe I could sell off the resulting keyboard in the classifieds. If I go that route I'll try to post something that look like pictures.

Anyway Loligagger thank you for finding the file I've been looking for since October. That is a very long thread to look through all of.

[oystein.krog]

I'm also interested in this.. will be keeping a lookout for an international round:)

[Loligagger]

That post has the full-hand with-universal-stabs cutouts that I've been looking for. Of course .dwg doesn't have units so american machines want to print that thing out at nearly three meters across unless you know where to warn the device that's not true.

As to the adapter ... hmm. I might try it myself during round one or something. I'm not a fan of the full-hand design myself because of furniture choices available to me but maybe I could sell off the resulting keyboard in the classifieds. If I go that route I'll try to post something that look like pictures.

Anyway Loligagger thank you for finding the file I've been looking for since October. That is a very long thread to look through all of.

No problem. Another question, since getting two sets to double the cases thickness has been brought up, what about extra spacer (or bottom/top) layers to make up the full 21mm thickness you'd get with the standard acrylic case?

Since a fullhand case would probably be quite heavy, perhaps hollow out the middle layers to save on weight?

[justnits]

i will be waiting patiently....haha!

[AKmalamute]

So, this "test round" hasn't exactly exploded, but we are above MOQ for the shop ... do the brave souls thusly committed want to start invoicing, and close a week early?

If we want to do this now, I'd start invoicing and leave orders open 'til my midnight of the 16th, call the order in on monday and hopefully have it done by friday the twenty first.

Or if you were all expecting this to hit your next paycheck let me know, I can let it percolate a time longer, too.

[Thechemist]

Could I also get a top layer on the 4 layer aluminum version? making it a 6 layer ( top | plate | bottom ) this way it has some rigidity? Let me know if that could be an option.

[AKmalamute]

Could I also get a top layer on the 4 layer aluminum version? making it a 6 layer ( top | plate | bottom ) this way it has some rigidity? Let me know if that could be an option.

I think so ... prorated by surface area, as I understand it, at least in this case. So half-again $$ at least for the production half.

Do you want that for both copies you've ordered?

[mashby]

Although I placed an order, I'm a little unsure how this case is supposed to work.

According to the link in the OP, "The design used in Massdrop’s kit uses 3mm sheets for the top and bottom and 5mm sheets for the middle 3 layers" With your design we have 5 sheets all at 1.5mm. Unless I'm mistaken, it sounds like the case is too small. Am I wrong?

[AKmalamute]

Although I placed an order, I'm a little unsure how this case is supposed to work.

According to the link in the OP, "The design used in Massdrop’s kit uses 3mm sheets for the top and bottom and 5mm sheets for the middle 3 layers" With your design we have 5 sheets all at 1.5mm. Unless I'm mistaken, it sounds like the case is too small. Am I wrong?

I also stated you'd need standoffs, of which Glod pictured an example using his MD alu. case and extra nuts on the M3 screws. I'd planned, for my part, to make silicone gaskets to act as those standoffs. But you're right, this would not be tall enough to make your ergodox a solid block of aluminum.

 My main consideration is the plate ... I insist it be 1.5mm. That means an air gap without some hoop jumping, ergo the silicone. I figured if I'm jumping hoops anyway, I'd keep the machining simple and just use the same metal all the way through.

 Now, for round two, once I have a better feel for this whole thing, I may open it up for more thicknesses but that will of course heighten both the material cost, probably laser time, and shipping cost because metal is heavy.

[mashby]

Totally missed the photos Glod posted, sorry about that.