Infinity: A 60% Keyboard Designed by Haata now Available on Massdrop!

[jacobolus]

Does anyone have any experience with big drops like this one with lots of options? I don't know what kind of operation Massdrop is running, but I can't help but worry that a lot of folks are going to end up with the wrong plates/switches or something like that, just because there are so many different configurations and this has been a relatively popular drop.

MassDrop had some issues with sourcing/sorting/distribution like 2 years ago, and e.g. some Ergodox drops had a couple months extra delay in fulfillment as a result, but they’ve gotten a lot better as they figured **** out and scaled up. Also, in my experience and the experience of people I’ve talked to they're always happy to re-send missing parts, in cases something went wrong.

[njbair]

I just realized, I selected the bent plate option for the matias linear switches, does this mean I wouldn't be able to eventually transfer it to an aftermarket case? I hope I can contact support and switch to the flat plate option.  Also, the "standard" layout will work fine with the matias linears, right? I opted for the blank dsa caps to go along with it.

AFAIK they will match the caps and the plate to the layout you choose, so any switch will work with any layout.

Regarding the bent plate, you will not be able to fit it into an aftermarket case later, as-is. It may be possible with some rather involved metalworking to remove the "legs" and drill out some openings to get in there with a screwdriver. But yes, if you can get Massdrop to change your order that would be a better way to go.

EDIT: I said "any switch will work with any layout" but that's only true at the time of order. In other words, you'll likely not find an aftermarket keycap set with ALPS stems in an Infinity hacker layout, unless these boards become popular enough to sustain some kind of keycap set group buy.

[Flyersfan1]

I just realized, I selected the bent plate option for the matias linear switches, does this mean I wouldn't be able to eventually transfer it to an aftermarket case? I hope I can contact support and switch to the flat plate option.  Also, the "standard" layout will work fine with the matias linears, right? I opted for the blank dsa caps to go along with it.

AFAIK they will match the caps and the plate to the layout you choose, so any switch will work with any layout.

Regarding the bent plate, you will not be able to fit it into an aftermarket case later, as-is. It may be possible with some rather involved metalworking to remove the "legs" and drill out some openings to get in there with a screwdriver. But yes, if you can get Massdrop to change your order that would be a better way to go.

EDIT: I said "any switch will work with any layout" but that's only true at the time of order. In other words, you'll likely not find an aftermarket keycap set with ALPS stems in an Infinity hacker layout, unless these boards become popular enough to sustain some kind of keycap set group buy.

Thanks NJ! I'll shoot an email over to Massdrop, I can't imagine that being a tough thing to switch. I chose the "standard" layout for that very reason. I was mostly concerned about the spacebar.  Thanks for such a quick reply!

[KHAANNN]

Would be great if something like this happened at the infinity drop too: http://imgur.com/9FEHHft

I'm really having a hard time with not getting a chinese FC660M in the meantime, mainly the right cable setup is holding me back, left cable ftw

[njbair]

Would be great if something like this happened at the infinity drop too: http://imgur.com/9FEHHft

I'm really having a hard time with not getting a chinese FC660M in the meantime, mainly the right cable setup is holding me back, left cable ftw

Are you referring to this drop?

I just can't get behind the FC660M. It's those two keys on the top right. They drive me nuts.

[Willyc277]

Would be great if something like this happened at the infinity drop too: http://imgur.com/9FEHHft

I'm really having a hard time with not getting a chinese FC660M in the meantime, mainly the right cable setup is holding me back, left cable ftw

Are you referring to this drop?

I just can't get behind the FC660M. It's those two keys on the top right. They drive me nuts.

Those 2 keys are the only reason I'd ever pick that board up 

[KHAANNN]

I don't like massdrop that much honestly, although the early v60/80 shipments were nice, I would just buy the fc660m from aliexpress or ebay and get it instantly

Those two buttons are indeed beautiful, I generally use page up/down for text editor combos, they seem to be perfect for that job too

On different-note, I really really hope the infinity turns out to be ping-free, I really really want to just start enjoying the keyboards instead of obsessing over issues

[Smasher816]

I don't like massdrop that much honestly, although the early v60/80 shipments were nice, I would just buy the fc660m from aliexpress or ebay and get it instantly

Those two buttons are indeed beautiful, I generally use page up/down for text editor combos, they seem to be perfect for that job too

On different-note, I really really hope the infinity turns out to be ping-free, I really really want to just start enjoying the keyboards instead of obsessing over issues

Definitely don't hear anything like in this video.

[ideus]

The USB cable, that was originally missing in the Infinity package, was delivered this morning. With it the order is completed. 

[KHAANNN]

Definitely don't hear anything like in this video.

I couldn't isolate the ping in that video, but the easiest way to test is to hit/nudge the case instead of the switches, if the keyboard is pingy you should hear a resonation, like a bell

The infinity's plate looks very thick from the photos, so I hope the bottom out forces would be lower than it's pinging edge

[KHAANNN]

By the way, are the cherry infinity switches PCB mounts? I needed to ask as I see the holes and I'm considering buying some switches to pre-mod before the kb arrives, yet I'm guessing they are plate mounts with the holes unused or for matias's etc

[jdcarpe]

By the way, are the cherry infinity switches PCB mounts? I needed to ask as I see the holes and I'm considering buying some switches to pre-mod before the kb arrives, yet I'm guessing they are plate mounts with the holes unused or for matias's etc

The PCB supports PCB mount switches. If you choose to use a plate, you can use either plate mount or PCB mount switches.

[KHAANNN]

By the way, are the cherry infinity switches PCB mounts? I needed to ask as I see the holes and I'm considering buying some switches to pre-mod before the kb arrives, yet I'm guessing they are plate mounts with the holes unused or for matias's etc

The PCB supports PCB mount switches. If you choose to use a plate, you can use either plate mount or PCB mount switches.

I've never seen a PCB mount switch irl, do they also have the plate holder parts?

I mean, if {PCB == Plate mount + 2 plastic feet} - I would definitely try to get PCB mounted switches although I'm going to utilize the plate too

[jdcarpe]

I mean, if {PCB == Plate mount + 2 plastic feet} - I would definitely try to get PCB mounted switches although I'm going to utilize the plate too

Yep.



Plate mount ^




PCB mount ^



Those two little plastic bits are the only difference.

[njbair]

I mean, if {PCB == Plate mount + 2 plastic feet} - I would definitely try to get PCB mounted switches although I'm going to utilize the plate too

Yep.

Show Image

Plate mount ^

Show Image

PCB mount ^



Those two little plastic bits are the only difference.

Umm, I'm not quite sure how to say this but...your two little plastic bits are showing.

[KHAANNN]

yummy, thanks a lot for the info, I should try to get some pcb mounted switches, It seems they would add to the sturdiness significantly, yet they are not sold on mainstream sites it seems

do they send pcb mounted switches with infinities?

[HaaTa]

So, getting pcb mount switches are a lot more difficult to snap in once the switches are in the plate.

If 1 switch is 1x switch insertion force, 60 switches is 60x insertion force. It's a lot easier to put in a few switches, then insert the switches into the plate and the pcb at the same time.

But yeah, they'll work, but you might not be able to push down the pcb all the way...
Gateron switches have higher insertion force than Cherry MX I find.

[jdcarpe]

So, getting pcb mount switches are a lot more difficult to snap in once the switches are in the plate.

If 1 switch is 1x switch insertion force, 60 switches is 60x insertion force. It's a lot easier to put in a few switches, then insert the switches into the plate and the pcb at the same time.

This is how I do it, as well. I place four switches in the corner positions in the plate, then fit those to the PCB, then solder those in. Then I fill the rest of the holes in the plate with switches, while simultaneously pressing them into the PCB.

But yeah, they'll work, but you might not be able to push down the pcb all the way...
Gateron switches have higher insertion force than Cherry MX I find.

This is true. Gateron switches have three "micro-fins" on each PCB mounting leg, which makes them fit more tightly into the holes.

[KHAANNN]

I had a chance to convert a pcb switch to a plate one recently, until I tried to mount it, I didn't even realise that all my mx blacks were pcb mounts, it was strangely satisfying to first rip the pcb mounts and then dremel the remaining parts

Anyway, I actually wanted to check for updates on the infinity, just can't wait, so excited

Going to order a pexon cable beforehand, I would appreciate some advice on that if you guys have any, I want the cable to start leaning left directly when connected to a low profile 60% case, by cording it just the right way, starting right after the mini-usb, but I'm not sure how to describe it / ensure the result, I also couldn't decide on the colors, galaxy+carbon-techflex seems cool tho

A guy reported that the usb-port is on the edge, so this seems like a good/simple/cool solution for me

Tho, this is probably the best solution, if coolness isn't an issue: http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Mini-USB-Cable-USB2HABM6RA/dp/B004NO0L4O/ - I ordered one just in case

(Edit: I just received a reply to my email from Pexon, he says he can cord the cable just right, I would suggest this approach if anyone else has a monitor that obstructs with the cable path, I like my keyboard far away as I usually have a paper journal open on the desk)

[SpAmRaY]

I had a chance to convert a pcb switch to a plate one recently, until I tried to mount it, I didn't even realise that all my mx blacks were pcb mounts, it was strangely satisfying to first rip the pcb mounts and then dremel the remaining parts

Typically you just take a pair of small sharp cutters and snip those plastic legs off flush.

What you describe makes it sound difficult.

[ideus]

Does someone know if the configurator is working yet?

[njbair]

I had a chance to convert a pcb switch to a plate one recently, until I tried to mount it, I didn't even realise that all my mx blacks were pcb mounts, it was strangely satisfying to first rip the pcb mounts and then dremel the remaining parts

Typically you just take a pair of small sharp cutters and snip those plastic legs off flush.

What you describe makes it sound difficult.

I think a lot of people see flush cutters and they think diagonal cutters will do the job. But diagonals leave a good bit of material, depending on their size.

Also, most toolbox starter kits come with a set of diagonals, whereas flush cutters are a special-purpose tool.

[HaaTa]

Does someone know if the configurator is working yet?

Very soon I hope to make an announcement about this

[ideus]

Does someone know if the configurator is working yet?

Very soon I hope to make an announcement about this

Awesome; then, it would see some use.

[Badwrench]

Hey guys, let me know what you think:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68887.0

[KHAANNN]

Just checked the infinity's on /r/mk - this one stood out: http://i.imgur.com/dAgRjfn.jpg

It would probably look much better with a black painted plate, but on the other hand, my plates always get lubed, so there's the lube stains to add to the equation, naked steel would probably hide the lube waves well

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/search?q=infinity&restrict_sr=on

The aluminium slim vortex cased one is a beauty: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2vos2q/photos_infinity_keyboard_in_hands/

EDIT: I see now that this is the case to buy: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1001 - I guess I'm going to try my chances at painting instead, although this seems to be the perfect case for the infinity plate, I guess I enjoy black items more. I should start looking for a steel plate/item to paint and test

[njbair]

Just checked the infinity's on /r/mk - this one stood out: http://i.imgur.com/dAgRjfn.jpg

It would probably look much better with a black painted plate, but on the other hand, my plates always get lubed, so there's the lube stains to add to the equation, naked steel would probably hide the lube waves well

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/search?q=infinity&restrict_sr=on

The aluminium slim vortex cased one is a beauty: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2vos2q/photos_infinity_keyboard_in_hands/

EDIT: I see now that this is the case to buy: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1001 - I guess I'm going to try my chances at painting instead, although this seems to be the perfect case for the infinity plate, I guess I enjoy black items more. I should start looking for a steel plate/item to paint and test

Do you not care for the black anodized TEX plate? They look very similar to me, but you wouldn't have to paint it.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=630

[KHAANNN]

The stainless steel plate color is the issue :) Otherwise I really like the black tex case, in fact I ordered 2 of them, as, at that time I was intending to build 2 infinities with different switches for different moods

The stainless steel plate doesn't look too good in the black case, as seen from the first picture, I'm not sure whether it really looks bad or it's the potato picture that enhances the color incompatibility that much

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered matte black spray paint and matte varnishes to test them on steel surfaces, I previously perfected my spray painting method on flexible plastic surfaces, I have a feeling stainless steel will be more forgiving

----

After refreshing my memory, I re-checked ideus's infinity: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64198.msg1666451#msg1666451 - same keycaps/case, yet in his picture's (or in these picture's) the plate actually looks pretty good, so I guess I will have to re-asses the situation when I actually have access to the components (in 2 months maybe?)

[ideus]

The stainless steel plate color is the issue Otherwise I really like the black tex case, in fact I ordered 2 of them, as, at that time I was intending to build 2 infinities with different switches for different moods

The stainless steel plate doesn't look too good in the black case, as seen from the first picture, I'm not sure whether it really looks bad or it's the potato picture that enhances the color incompatibility that much

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered matte black spray paint and matte varnishes to test them on steel surfaces, I previously perfected my spray painting method on flexible plastic surfaces, I have a feeling stainless steel will be more forgiving

----

After refreshing my memory, I re-checked ideus's infinity: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64198.msg1666451#msg1666451 - same keycaps/case, yet in his picture's (or in these picture's) the plate actually looks pretty good, so I guess I will have to re-asses the situation when I actually have access to the components (in 2 months maybe?)

It looks good; besides, you can always desolder the switches and paint the plate if you do not like the plate aesthetics anymore, or if it get some rusty spots.

[KHAANNN]

The re-solder + paint idea is pretty logical, but I have a hunch I will just paint it black, especially since I have a spare plate if things go bad

The worst case scenario is switches chipping the paint during mounting/entry, or the paint getting chipped in the long run, chipped spray paint is a nightmare

I'm also tempted to paint the parts of the pcb that is visible, especially to improve the looks of the empty space balancers

(I haven't seen an 60% up close yet, if the screws put pressure on the plate, I guess I won't attempt these)

----

On the controller side, this is great news: https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/issues/4

I really like the idea of controlling the mouse with the keyboard, although I will likely never use it

[njbair]

The stainless steel plate color is the issue Otherwise I really like the black tex case, in fact I ordered 2 of them, as, at that time I was intending to build 2 infinities with different switches for different moods

The stainless steel plate doesn't look too good in the black case, as seen from the first picture, I'm not sure whether it really looks bad or it's the potato picture that enhances the color incompatibility that much

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered matte black spray paint and matte varnishes to test them on steel surfaces, I previously perfected my spray painting method on flexible plastic surfaces, I have a feeling stainless steel will be more forgiving

----

After refreshing my memory, I re-checked ideus's infinity: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64198.msg1666451#msg1666451 - same keycaps/case, yet in his picture's (or in these picture's) the plate actually looks pretty good, so I guess I will have to re-asses the situation when I actually have access to the components (in 2 months maybe?)

You need need need (!) a good coat of metal primer before you paint the plate. And follow all the instructions carefully (pre-cleaning the metal, etc.). Primer will bond to the metal and help prevent chipping.

My other key piece of advice, don't rush the paint job. Take your time and do it right. Paint not only has to dry, it has to cure as well.

[KHAANNN]

I found a steel spaghetti bowl to test various paint methods on, but not painting starts to make sense, stainless steel seems very forgiving with dust, various particles and stablube stains, it's probably a huge plus over black paint, which would most probably amplify these issues
I also couldn't found a primer that's available locally, just various paints from motip/dupli germany that claim performance on all surfaces, including metal, bought the matte ones for testing, the seasoning is good advice, I will likely test various coat/application methods beforehand if I decide to paint

I generally use old pc's/mac's for hardware programming tasks, but I'm considering using my main macbook to program the infinity when it arrives, especially since the dfu-util is available via brew, which makes it less risky
It seems I might play a lot with the layout, I'm especially excited about the forthcoming mouse control capabilities, the caps lock button + asd for mouse clicks and arrows for movements makes a lot of sense, maybe +w to increase the cursor speed while held-on

Any non-announced update on the availability of the new batch? I just can't wait
At least the default May 8 date is closer now

[Badwrench]

For those of you that went the alps/matias route, my GB is now live   

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70817.0

[KHAANNN]

It's so hard to wait

HaaTa plx leak the manufacturing status



My keycap sets are ready, switches are ready, anxiously waiting the infinity's

[ideus]

Is the configurator working yet?

[KHAANNN]

Is the configurator working yet?

Since I don't have the board yet, I've only checked some basic firmware things, is the configurator a basic tool that outputs kll, haata's keyboard layout language/format?

By the way, If anyone is selling their standard layout cherry's with the flat plate, I would like to buy, I was at a minimalistic mindset when I was purchasing the infinity, if I was doing it now, I would get 2 more additional naked pcb/plate's to populate them with stuff, I guess I didn't do it at the time, as I was also considering the possibility of improved pcb's, in that case the excessive builds would have been wasted, similar to the v1 pcb's, which got improved, same can happen to v2

[HaaTa]

Not yet. I've seen matt3o's demo of the admin tools (look amazing). I don't get to chat with him much (Italy vs. California timezone stuffs).

[KHAANNN]

To ease my quest for another infinitykb, what's the difference between the first revision and the second?
I remember reading about minor pcb changes, but don't remember the details

[HaaTa]

Pretty minor.
Extra debug pins on the pcb (could be used to add a bluetooth mod).
Moved a few diodes (potential issue with some 60% cases).

[ideus]

Pretty minor.
Extra debug pins on the pcb (could be used to add a bluetooth mod).
Moved a few diodes (potential issue with some 60% cases).

Just to confirm: If my Infinity has the pins  is a second revision version?

[HaaTa]

Yes.

[KHAANNN]

Thanks for the quick reply, it's good to hear, as long as there is no consistency improvements the two are ~=

I'm guessing the drop1 had rev1/rev2 mixed, probably the bent ones had rev1's, since the changes are minor

[KHAANNN]

I've found 1-2 rev1/2 infinities to buy, from the first drop, I can't decide whether I should wait for the drop2 to be launched, which could be months, or just buy one of those that are open to sale

As I inspect the pictures from drop 1, I'm wondering why everyone soldered the switches in a crooked manner, could it be because the plate is too loose on the switches?

Here is what I'm talking about:

(Last-1)th picture: http://imgur.com/a/Y4oBU - almost all alphas are crooked

http://imgur.com/dAgRjfn - I O - K L - H J are crooked, the distances are not even

I'm going to re-solder the board that I buy, but I'm wondering what the cause of these issues are (It could be that the users didn't stress the switches during soldering, which left them crooked, but from the scale of the issue, I suspect plate/pcb issues as well) Would love some input

[Smasher816]

Afaik because the pcb has holes for both cherry and matias switches the pin holes are more oval shapped. With pcb mount switches the center plastic piece keeps it in place, but it could still rotate a little bit due to the pins holes not being round. I would try to make sure that you push each switch the same direction before (re)soldering it. Personally I do not see a huge issue in the supplied picture but I guess I am not quite as picky.

[KHAANNN]

I've finally acquired an infinity, couldn't wait for the drop2 launch, it will probably take 2-3 weeks for it to reach me at best

Decided to check the KLL spec, it seems no one is using their infinity's as the configurator isn't live, and KLL/firmware operations are an annoyance for many

I'm wondering whether it's a good idea to start a technical discussion thread here on geekhack, or use github issues to discuss issues, ask noob questions etc.

Basic things look simple, I'm sure I won't have any issues with replicating a regular 60% layout, however there are non-simple things too

1) For example, is it possible/logical to use Alt key as a modifier and fall back to the regular alt behaviour when there are no mapped keys etc.
2) Is it technically possible to send non-english characters on a regular ANSI setup (I'm guessing technically impossible on just the keyboard)
(Edit: it seems like a good idea to insert and use a combo that will instantly change the os language to the preferred language, press the desired key, change it back to US ANSI later on, so it's possible on the macgywer level, just noticed this possibility)
3) Is the power/eject mappings working, as I see from the example comments, they are not supported yet

These are just the questions I could come up with now, I'm sure when I receive the unit, there will be many more

[Smasher816]

1) I'm not sure what you mean. I do know dual role keys are planned but not implemented yet.

2) keyboards output scancodes, it is up to the OS to determine what letter appears (all language is on OS side). There is no way to output Unicode or anything like that. At best you could try alt-codes but they may not be universal for all programs.

3) Not sure. The comments are probably accurate.

You can always hop on IRC and talk to Haata http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#geekhack

[KHAANNN]

At the simplest form, many 60%'s have Shift+Esc -> ~ conversion

Is it easily doable with the kll/infinity? (While also preserving the regular shift-holding behaviour)

(Alternatively, one could have Alt+T do different things, while Alt+S would output ß as usual etc.)

[KHAANNN]

Hi

I received a second hand infinity keyboard from drop1 today

It's unused but pretty damaged

1) Initially the D1 is probably dislodged from touching the aluminium slides of the aluminium 60% cases, I guess re-soldering it might fix it, I verified that one end moves freely, the Esc doesn't work, I'm hoping re-soldering will fix it
1a) The D1 and D2 diodes are 2cm below the pcb, similarly the aluminium holder is 2mm below too, I guess I should remove parts of the case to make way for the diodes
1b) If the D1 diode falls off, can I replace it with a similar diode that I have lying around, I should have several type of normal diodes, and maybe some SMD diodes too

2) The USB connector is about to fall off, but the terminals are still holding, front solders fell off, the ones that are close to the terminals are holding, yet they weren't soldered strongly, any advice?

[HaaTa]

Yeah, we found out about the issue with right when they started getting to people.
Basically, the problem was, these cases are different than all the other 60% poker cases and we didn't anticipate this (this case was added near the end of the drop).

Rev 2 of the Infinity 60% has the diode issue fixed (which should deal with the usb problem as well).

The original buyer had the option of contacting support and getting one of the newer rev 2 pcbs (I think there were only 10 people who bought this case, everyone else shouldn't have any issues). You might be able to contact the original buyer and have them request a new pcb from Massdrop support (rev 2 should be shipping in the next couple weeks).
Personally, I can't really handle any of these issues.

You could also try soldering different diodes and repairing the USB connector, but that's up to your own soldering skills.

[KHAANNN]

Yeah, we found out about the issue with right when they started getting to people.
Basically, the problem was, these cases are different than all the other 60% poker cases and we didn't anticipate this (this case was added near the end of the drop).

Rev 2 of the Infinity 60% has the diode issue fixed (which should deal with the usb problem as well).

The original buyer had the option of contacting support and getting one of the newer rev 2 pcbs (I think there were only 10 people who bought this case, everyone else shouldn't have any issues). You might be able to contact the original buyer and have them request a new pcb from Massdrop support (rev 2 should be shipping in the next couple weeks).
Personally, I can't really handle any of these issues.

You could also try soldering different diodes and repairing the USB connector, but that's up to your own soldering skills.

Thanks a lot for the reply, this issue frustrated me a lot, I had really high hopes for the infinity, getting them crushed wasn't easy

I will contact the original buyer to explore that option, yet I'm not too optimistic, the main issue in my personal case is the import process, it takes long and it's risky, there are also limited chances for imports, after a while they start halting everything at customs, apart from this issue, the 60% case I ordered was missing screws, which amplified the sadness (I managed to find compatible screws, yet it's unclear whether the thread count is really compatible, if it's not, it will likely render the case unusable)

The PCB has a lot of wiggle room, the plate mount is also very loose, probably to let the switches to be opened, with this 2 combined, using plate mounted switches is madness, I sincerely hope massdrop is going to send PCB-mount switches this time, but I don't think that will be the case, this is why all the assembles infinities online have skewed switches/keycaps

I will probably reflow the problematic diodes now, de-solder all the switches, put PCB-mount ones and hope no more issues pops up

The plate also seems to be missing the left-hole for the leftmost 60% case screw, why is this?

Edit: Finally purchased a desoldering station, can't go on with the pumps any more