[IC] GMK Paperwork

[kiwi99]

I've read people "" cutting MiniVan coverage out of their set, for some pretty personal reasons. That post was still up a month ago. If this is what Evan wants to do, good for him. If GH is only for those with 60's and up, put it in the name. Sez qed

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  )

[Lbibass]

Will these caps clear a 1u rack shelf with my rack mount minivan?

Do you have it yet? Measure the height of the stems.. that would be great

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He was making a joke about the $500 "rack mount" low profile brass case.

[ykill]

Will these caps clear a 1u rack shelf with my rack mount minivan?

Do you have it yet? Measure the height of the stems.. that would be great

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

He was making a joke about the $500 "rack mount" low profile brass case.

It's only a joke because 1U is 44mm.

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[OtherAndrew]

this aint it chief

[leexy]

lol it's evangs

anyway in b4 miketiger

[_GMK_]

I can see a bright future for this set if it includes some additional keycaps to make it a generally usable alphas set. It woud be enough to add:

one R4 1unit <> key near the shift, for ISO and modified ANSI
three R3 1 unit keys
three R2 keys (two 1 unit key, one 1.25 units key)

I could live with that, also if you still have a different number row. Or if you want you can add a number row, but that way the price will increas of about 10 USD  in total (and I'd still like this).

[futurecrime]

I've read people "" cutting MiniVan coverage out of their set, for some pretty personal reasons. That post was still up a month ago. If this is what Evan wants to do, good for him. If GH is only for those with 60's and up, put it in the name. Sez qed

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

There's plenty of boards smaller than 60's that this doesn't support. But again, whatever, it's not like Evan doesn't know this already. He's obviously made a conscious decision to cut other 40's compat out. Still interested to hear his reasoning.

[Jae-3soteric]

I can see a bright future for this set if it includes some additional keycaps to make it a generally usable alphas set. It woud be enough to add:

one R4 1unit <> key near the shift, for ISO and modified ANSI
three R3 1 unit keys
three R2 keys (two 1 unit key, one 1.25 units key)

I could live with that, also if you still have a different number row. Or if you want you can add a number row, but that way the price will increas of about 10 USD  in total (and I'd still like this).

I think the kit needs to expand much further to really intrigue buyers than just a few keys to use it as an alphas set. Not sure that would tempt me over.

In terms of Your pricing estimate - lots of things can affect that, and the figure you have quoted may be misleading - after all we have no base idea of what evangs was intending to charge for the set.

[_GMK_]

I can see a bright future for this set if it includes some additional keycaps to make it a generally usable alphas set. It woud be enough to add:

one R4 1unit <> key near the shift, for ISO and modified ANSI
three R3 1 unit keys
three R2 keys (two 1 unit key, one 1.25 units key)

I could live with that, also if you still have a different number row. Or if you want you can add a number row, but that way the price will increas of about 10 USD  in total (and I'd still like this).

I think the kit needs to expand much further to really intrigue buyers than just a few keys to use it as an alphas set. Not sure that would tempt me over.

In terms of Your pricing estimate - lots of things can affect that, and the figure you have quoted may be misleading - after all we have no base idea of what evangs was intending to charge for the set.

In my 60% the number row is made of ESC and artisans and GMK samples, but beside that, if you've got a set with uniform colors (BOW, WOB, PHANTOM, MONKEY, TERMINAL, SKIDATA etc), having these new alphas (without number row) will surely be and  interesting addition. And at what cost? 6 caps more than the suggested layout? that's very affordable, while giving you a much wider audience.

skidata with paperwork alphas



terminal with paperwork alphas


phantom with paperwork alphas

[Abec13]

Is there any reason why this is only supporting small form factor boards and not a traditional base set accommodating the more common layouts such as 60/65/75/1800 etc?

The reason I ask is custom colours increases the MOQ, so limiting yourself to just smaller form factors will limit your potential participants.

(This might be a moot point if this is your intention further down the line)

But I do love the concept


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Sets like these that are kinda specific to small boards are usually cheaper. GMK N6TUyadayada was 100 on release and can now be bought for 80 which if you compare to like GMK DMG to cover a minivan (Or any 40 for that matter, you were looking at about 210) because you had to buy the base kit as well as the pocket kit. Yes it can cover more boards but this give you an opportunity to cover a smaller board for much less if that's your only intended purpose of it. This set has a target audience for sure.

I mean, you're arguing for smaller boards but this doesn't actually cover any other staggered 40%, just the minivan. Expanding it to do so would be trivial and would expand the user base substantially.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Is there any reason why this is only supporting small form factor boards and not a traditional base set accommodating the more common layouts such as 60/65/75/1800 etc?

The reason I ask is custom colours increases the MOQ, so limiting yourself to just smaller form factors will limit your potential participants.

(This might be a moot point if this is your intention further down the line)

But I do love the concept


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sets like these that are kinda specific to small boards are usually cheaper. GMK N6TUyadayada was 100 on release and can now be bought for 80 which if you compare to like GMK DMG to cover a minivan (Or any 40 for that matter, you were looking at about 210) because you had to buy the base kit as well as the pocket kit. Yes it can cover more boards but this give you an opportunity to cover a smaller board for much less if that's your only intended purpose of it. This set has a target audience for sure.

I mean, you're arguing for smaller boards but this doesn't actually cover any other staggered 40%, just the minivan. Expanding it to do so would be trivial and would expand the user base substantially.

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Looking at it, it looks like it supports OLKB and therefore also the zlant.

[smurkcity12]

> Gets annoyed certain keysets exclude support for his layout from their 40% kits
> Proceeds to make 40% kit that excludes support of various other 40% layouts

Show Image

This is the second best thing I could have seen this morning from Oblotzky lol. First being a thread for gmk oblivion R2 ofc.

On a note related to the topic at hand...if this somehow manages to be cheap enough to be considered just for alphas I'd likely buy a set. I can't see that being remotely possible with all of the custom colors though. And IMO you're going to need support from a wide audience here, and currently the target group is miniscule relative to the #s that'll be needed. GL with the GB though.

[megaforce]

this aint it chief

you hate to see it

[mnpq.raven]

First being a thread for gmk oblivion R2 ofc.

Where is that monkaS

[Jaxxstatic]

So Evan is from Nebraska. Me too (living in CA now, though). I'd like to support him and his products.
But I'm SO confused about the backhand comments about minivans I see posted on rmk, and the pretty nasty comments on gh from creators whose products I respect.

Any clarification?

I'd just like to not get burned on a keyset purchase. I almost jumped on GMK Necro, but luckily saw the GH thread and saved myself $200. That's not an insignificant amount.

[hineybush]

So Evan is from Nebraska. Me too (living in CA now, though). I'd like to support him and his products.
But I'm SO confused about the backhand comments about minivans I see posted on rmk, and the pretty nasty comments on gh from creators whose products I respect.

Any clarification?

I'd just like to not get burned on a keyset purchase. I almost jumped on GMK Necro, but luckily saw the GH thread and saved myself $200. That's not an insignificant amount.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=95882.msg2695276#msg2695276

[The_Royal]

While everyone else is giving some mad hate on this...

I love it and will be buying it.

I solely use a minivan and Planck as my daily drivers and I always look to you guys to provide great compatibility sets for these boards.  It may not cover EVERY board layout possible, or even most 40%'s but that's not the point.  He did the same thing with His other GMK set for the minivan and it doesn't even have Planck compatibility.   If he can give us this for the same as the last set, or a little more most likely, then that's fine with me.

Keep up the awesome work Evan!

[zekkin]

So Evan is from Nebraska. Me too (living in CA now, though). I'd like to support him and his products.
But I'm SO confused about the backhand comments about minivans I see posted on rmk, and the pretty nasty comments on gh from creators whose products I respect.

Any clarification?

I'd just like to not get burned on a keyset purchase. I almost jumped on GMK Necro, but luckily saw the GH thread and saved myself $200. That's not an insignificant amount.

I'm pretty sure the whole thing can be summarized as follows:

Awhile back, at the beginning of 2018, Evan started gathering feedback/interest in his new keycap profile, called Hub. It was a neat deal where you get a good number of keysets for a very reasonable price (forgetting the whole need to fund doubleshot molds and machines). At some point during this IC phase renders/mock-ups of Hub in various popular colorways such as Hyperfuse, Royal Alpha, Jukebox, Hack'd by Geeks, Troubled Minds/Noctilucous, Nuclear Data, Muted, Sky Dolch appeared (if they were not already on there) on the Kickstarter page.

Since then mock-ups of colorways like Zambumon's Jamon, and Calm Depths can be seen on The Van Keyboards instagram page. I believe during the Kickstarter many popular designers expressed their disappointment in Evan not reaching out to them prior to featuring these popular colorways (some adaptations of old sets, some direct copies of original ideas) as something he could be making money from.

From what I understand, the lack of Minivan support is a direct response to this and this set seems to be a response to that in so far as if no one will feature Minivan series support, Evan will not feature support for literally any layout other than the Minivan family.

Beyond the keycap designer quarrels, in my opinion this is a bad move purely just due to the fact that these are custom colors and unless Evan will be willing to pick up whatever remainder of the MoQ is left, it very likely won't hit MoQ. More well thought out and planned sets with more compatibility have failed to hit MoQ at the non-custom color mark.

TL;DR:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=95882.msg2695276#msg2695276

[Vigrith]

Mikethetiger waiting room

[Jaxxstatic]

Seems like Evan is a programmer, and Steven is a designer, from reading thevankeyboards.com about page.
The instagram posts seem to be from Steven. The reddit posts from Evan.
I see the disconnect.

This community is pretty small. Lack of support between creators imho hurts end-users more than anybody.
I hope it all gets worked out. I've got a Pearl that is always a mixup of different keysets with the wrong profiles.
I'd like to get more 40% boards and have more options.

[tex_live_utility]

I've read people "" cutting MiniVan coverage out of their set, for some pretty personal reasons. That post was still up a month ago. If this is what Evan wants to do, good for him. If GH is only for those with 60's and up, put it in the name. Sez qed

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

There's plenty of boards smaller than 60's that this doesn't support. But again, whatever, it's not like Evan doesn't know this already. He's obviously made a conscious decision to cut other 40's compat out. Still interested to hear his reasoning.

Here's a summary of his reaction in Discord:

"My target customer is the Minivan user, and I want to make sure they get the best price possible, especially since this set has custom colors. It's hard to know what to put in a 40s kit because I keep hearing different things from different people and I only use Minivan myself. I don't want to make the kit too big and expensive trying to please everyone. I don't think it's wrong to make a keyset targeted specifically for the Minivan."

[evangs]

I've read people "" cutting MiniVan coverage out of their set, for some pretty personal reasons. That post was still up a month ago. If this is what Evan wants to do, good for him. If GH is only for those with 60's and up, put it in the name. Sez qed

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

There's plenty of boards smaller than 60's that this doesn't support. But again, whatever, it's not like Evan doesn't know this already. He's obviously made a conscious decision to cut other 40's compat out. Still interested to hear his reasoning.

Here's a summary of his reaction in Discord:

"My target customer is the Minivan user, and I want to make sure they get the best price possible, especially since this set has custom colors. It's hard to know what to put in a 40s kit because I keep hearing different things from different people and I only use Minivan myself. I don't want to make the kit too big and expensive trying to please everyone. I don't think it's wrong to make a keyset targeted specifically for the Minivan."

Any reason why you didn’t just quote what I wrote over ther? It wasn’t much longer

[dimo]

I've read people "" cutting MiniVan coverage out of their set, for some pretty personal reasons. That post was still up a month ago. If this is what Evan wants to do, good for him. If GH is only for those with 60's and up, put it in the name. Sez qed

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

There’s a clear difference between cutting the compatibility for an obscure 40% and cutting compatibility for 97% of the boards in the community

[futurecrime]

I've read people "" cutting MiniVan coverage out of their set, for some pretty personal reasons. That post was still up a month ago. If this is what Evan wants to do, good for him. If GH is only for those with 60's and up, put it in the name. Sez qed

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

There's plenty of boards smaller than 60's that this doesn't support. But again, whatever, it's not like Evan doesn't know this already. He's obviously made a conscious decision to cut other 40's compat out. Still interested to hear his reasoning.

Here's a summary of his reaction in Discord:

"My target customer is the Minivan user, and I want to make sure they get the best price possible, especially since this set has custom colors. It's hard to know what to put in a 40s kit because I keep hearing different things from different people and I only use Minivan myself. I don't want to make the kit too big and expensive trying to please everyone. I don't think it's wrong to make a keyset targeted specifically for the Minivan."

Any reason why you didn’t just quote what I wrote over ther? It wasn’t much longer

Any reason you didn't respond in your own thread yourself? Anyway, I see your reasoning but I think you could use this thread - which is an interest check thread - to figure out the few extra keys to include which would bump the price up a tiny bit but greatly expand the pool of potential buyers. I think someone has already figured those keys out in fact. It's not 'wrong' to make a kit targetted specifically for your keyboard, but it also doesn't seem like good business sense.

[Oblotzky]

Keeping a kit small to have an attractive price is a very good reason, no doubt. However you are risking failing MOQ, so having a kit cost 10$ more and attracting more people is better than having no kit at all.

[livingspeedbump]

Keeping a kit small to have an attractive price is a very good reason, no doubt. However you are risking failing MOQ, so having a kit cost 10$ more and attracting more people is better than having no kit at all.

Giving buyers the best bang for buck seems to be something most people designing keycaps really strive for.

In this case I could understand the logic - smaller kit = less money = best value for MiniVan users.

I don't think the logic, if this was the way of thinking, is accurate though. Out of the majority of MiniVan users, I would just assume most have additional keyboards, and that a large number also don't use the MiniVan exclusively. So by providing a bigger kit, even a traditional "base kit" it the sense of 104+Tsangan+40's, etc still provides the best bang-for-buck that you can get from GMK. You also get way more buyers which brings the overall cost of the caps down significantly.

You could also get creative, try something like splitting off alphas, adding a 40's mod kit and a Standard Mod's kit and see what interest in something like that would be.

 

[_GMK_]

There's some real drama in this hobby. I think that some of these posts will be studied in marketing courses: how to win people and influence your bank account.

[tex_live_utility]

I've read people "" cutting MiniVan coverage out of their set, for some pretty personal reasons. That post was still up a month ago. If this is what Evan wants to do, good for him. If GH is only for those with 60's and up, put it in the name. Sez qed

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

There's plenty of boards smaller than 60's that this doesn't support. But again, whatever, it's not like Evan doesn't know this already. He's obviously made a conscious decision to cut other 40's compat out. Still interested to hear his reasoning.

Here's a summary of his reaction in Discord:

"My target customer is the Minivan user, and I want to make sure they get the best price possible, especially since this set has custom colors. It's hard to know what to put in a 40s kit because I keep hearing different things from different people and I only use Minivan myself. I don't want to make the kit too big and expensive trying to please everyone. I don't think it's wrong to make a keyset targeted specifically for the Minivan."

Any reason why you didn’t just quote what I wrote over ther? It wasn’t much longer

My apologies, I felt uncomfortable quoting it verbatim. I can post it if you'd like, or you can do that yourself. I hope I captured the intent of your response correctly.

[fireworm]

Having a 40's core set is fine, I guess.  But I'd add an extra 'weirdo' layouts ('Other 40's, TKL, Dox) in a few kits.  This way you can maximize 'minivan / plank' users buying a core kit, and letting everyone else who likes the colors spend money to get them for their bigger boards.

GMK sorts and packs the sets anyway, so I don't see why this is a big deal?

[kiwi99]

so I don't see why this is a big deal?

Ego

[tex_live_utility]

Having a 40's core set is fine, I guess.  But I'd add an extra 'weirdo' layouts ('Other 40's, TKL, Dox) in a few kits.  This way you can maximize 'minivan / plank' users buying a core kit, and letting everyone else who likes the colors spend money to get them for their bigger boards.

GMK sorts and packs the sets anyway, so I don't see why this is a big deal?

Yup. I wouldn't buy a Minivan-only set for $80, but I would certainly buy a general 40s/ergo set for $95 or $100.

[japanesehorrorwriter]

This is brilliant.

[_GMK_]

Did GMK add some standard colors that we don't know of?

This hyperfuse set uses the grey GR11

I don't know if this sets relies so much on custom colors, but chosing some standard ones could make it cheaper and more inviting?

The price increase for 13 custom colors (13??), could be about 15-20 USD.

[Oblotzky]

Did GMK add some standard colors that we don't know of?

This hyperfuse set uses the grey GR11

I don't know if this sets relies so much on custom colors, but chosing some standard ones could make it cheaper and more inviting?

The price increase for 13 custom colors (13??), could be about 15-20 USD.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Custom colors receive a 'standard' code once they are finalized by the designer, but they remain custom colors with a MOQ of 250. So for example the dark blue for the GMK Yuri modifiers was matched back in 2016, t0mb3ry received a sample one day called '16-08110' (August 2016, 110th custom sampled colored I believe), and since he approved this exact one for production of GMK Yuri, they gave it the name BL3 (Blau #3, German for blue). So Hyperfuses GR11 is the eleventh Grau (gray) in their lineup, GMK Space Cadet has GR9 and BL15 for example.

[Hedgey]

...

[hineybush]

Did GMK add some standard colors that we don't know of?

This hyperfuse set uses the grey GR11

I don't know if this sets relies so much on custom colors, but chosing some standard ones could make it cheaper and more inviting?

The price increase for 13 custom colors (13??), could be about 15-20 USD.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

They usually keep internal codes (GR11 in this case) for custom colors, to easily be referred to in the future vs. a hex or RAL number

[Puddsy]

Did GMK add some standard colors that we don't know of?

This hyperfuse set uses the grey GR11

I don't know if this sets relies so much on custom colors, but chosing some standard ones could make it cheaper and more inviting?

The price increase for 13 custom colors (13??), could be about 15-20 USD.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

don't play the gmk price guessing game, it always ends up badly

[mdlt97]

This ain't it chief

[Hedgey]

...

[megaforce]

Man....Evan I don't even know you personally but in the year+ I've been in this hobby, I never understood the lack of support for other boards.  Especially when yours is incredibly niche compared to the other 40's out there. 

Like, I get that it's your baby and stuff, but at the same time, you are so focused on only your board, that nothing ever hits MOQ, or nothing seems to go right for you, and you can't seem to figure that out.

I think the HuB stuff really pushed people over the edge on you, and now you're facing the backlash, and rightfully so. 

Btw, what do you do for a day job?  All I see are render after render and nothing more than that.  Are you going to make half the boards you render, or are you just bored???

https://ameriburn.org/public-resources/find-a-burn-center/

[thearctican]

Will these caps clear a 1u rack shelf with my rack mount minivan?

You should measure to be sure. I can say that my Planck with Cherry profile caps would fit in a 1u rack shelf.

[Hedgey]

...

[Jae-3soteric]

Did GMK add some standard colors that we don't know of?

This hyperfuse set uses the grey GR11

I don't know if this sets relies so much on custom colors, but chosing some standard ones could make it cheaper and more inviting?

The price increase for 13 custom colors (13??), could be about 15-20 USD.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Custom colors receive a 'standard' code once they are finalized by the designer, but they remain custom colors with a MOQ of 250. So for example the dark blue for the GMK Yuri modifiers was matched back in 2016, t0mb3ry received a sample one day called '16-08110' (August 2016, 110th custom sampled colored I believe), and since he approved this exact one for production of GMK Yuri, they gave it the name BL3 (Blau #3, German for blue). So Hyperfuses GR11 is the eleventh Grau (gray) in their lineup, GMK Space Cadet has GR9 and BL15 for example.

That’s really interesting actually - I didn’t realise that’s how the numbers came about. Makes me wonder about all the other numbers we don’t see on GMKs colour wheel...

[Jaxxstatic]

https://ameriburn.org/public-resources/find-a-burn-center/

I wasn’t trying to burn him.  I was genuinely curious.  I see all of these renders and nothing ever comes from them.  But again, he’s so focused on his board and his only, no wonder nothing works out.

I’m pretty sure it’s not Evan doing the renders. And they’re probably for marketing, not a representation of any real products.
I think Steven is the designer on the team, and he’s pretty prolific, but doesn’t really post on GH from what I can tell.
I wish the team would put that stuff out in IC more often. Maybe even just assign a 3rd person to be a community liaison for GH, rmk, discord, and keebtalk... if anyone’s using that.
I’d love to see a Van KB Tachikoma set

[clasicks]

https://ameriburn.org/public-resources/find-a-burn-center/

I wasn’t trying to burn him.  I was genuinely curious.  I see all of these renders and nothing ever comes from them.  But again, he’s so focused on his board and his only, no wonder nothing works out.

I’m pretty sure it’s not Evan doing the renders. And they’re probably for marketing, not a representation of any real products.
I think Steven is the designer on the team, and he’s pretty prolific, but doesn’t really post on GH from what I can tell.
I wish the team would put that stuff out in IC more often. Maybe even just assign a 3rd person to be a community liaison for GH, rmk, discord, and keebtalk... if anyone’s using that.
I’d love to see a Van KB Tachikoma set

He should be able to communicate with his partner.

Why are you singling out your niche product even more Evang? Shouldn't you be embracing the other under 60% boards? You areonly contributing in furthering the gap between traditional layouts and your special one.

[Zeimus]

looks like slate

0 compatibility nty

pretty much this   

[tskiller]

is this an overwatch match? I've never seen so much salt in one place. I have a minivan, I'm interested in this set. If there aren't enough people with minivans, then we wont hit MOQ and the GB doesn't happen.

Isn't that why you have interest checks in the first place? No need to be slinging shade all over the place.

[Hedgey]

...

[tskiller]

I tried to figure out whats going on but multiple people seem to be butthurt at the each other for various petty reasons. In the end, the community as a whole loses.

If this set hits MOQ, great! I have a set ready for the catalyst when it hits. If not, well, I'll have an easier time rationalizing the next set that catches my eye!

[mnpq.raven]

is this an overwatch match? I've never seen so much salt in one place. I have a minivan, I'm interested in this set. If there aren't enough people with minivans, then we wont hit MOQ and the GB doesn't happen.

Isn't that why you have interest checks in the first place? No need to be slinging shade all over the place.

>being an egoistic block and rips off other people's colorway and gets called out for that
>now self-alienating from the community cause muh board muh choice and gets called out for that too
>plays the "you guys must be so salty because you disagree with his ideas" card
lmao the salt card, everytime man

[livingspeedbump]

I tried to figure out whats going on but multiple people seem to be butthurt at the each other for various petty reasons. In the end, the community as a whole loses.

If this set hits MOQ, great! I have a set ready for the catalyst when it hits. If not, well, I'll have an easier time rationalizing the next set that catches my eye!

A large part of an IC is listening to the feedback "I wouldn't but this, because...", with because being the key word there. There is some complaints here that don't offer any suggestions, but a lot of people do offer suggestions that would help out.