Das Keyboard III vs FILCO

[joneslee85]

The question is why FILCO is better than Das? I read that Das has some controller problems, but is there any other things that Filco surpass Das?

[leos]

its your opinion if you forget the controller issues.The das case looks better for me and the filco keys are far better then the das keys. Also the klicky sound is differed for me.

das

filco

[ch_123]

Build quality is meant to be better on the Filcos. Ive seen more than one bashed up Das

[leos]

Build quality is meant to be better on the Filcos. Ive seen more than one bashed up Das

meant??? i have the most of the filcos and all the das until version 3 without S.
So i can compare. Just i say each one has a differed opinion.

I am not a das funboy but it is not so bad as you think.


If i chose between das or filco then i take TOPRE.

I know this going to flame war............................

[timw4mail]

The Das is designed by a marketing company, the Filco is designed by a keyboard company, therein lies the issues of quality control on the Das side.

[ch_123]

meant??? i have the most of the filcos and all the das until version 3 without S.
So i can compare. Just i say each one has a differed opinion.

I am not a das funboy but it is not so bad as you think.

Based my opinion on a number of bashed up Das 3s I have seen. Filcos don't have that problem.

Also, are you saying that you have all of them up to and including the Das 3, or do you not have one?

If i chose between das or filco then i take TOPRE.

I know this going to flame war............................

Topres are well built alright, but that doesn't have much to do with what the OP asked.

[AndrewZorn]

if the people behind the Das admit problems, how can you say it is better than a filco

[leos]

Based my opinion on a number of bashed up Das 3s I have seen. Filcos don't have that problem.

Also, are you saying that you have all of them up to and including the Das 3, or do you not have one?

yea i know the das3 has the controler issue. and yes i have all the das except the das "s". I just say that the build quality is not so bad as you think.

[leos]

The Das is designed by a marketing company, the Filco is designed by a keyboard company, therein lies the issues of quality control on the Das side.

dont think so, because both of them they are come from a real keyboard company...
both are oem boards

costar

[timw4mail]

dont think so, because both of them they are come from a real keyboard company...
both are oem boards

costar

There's a difference between design and manufacturing. I almost think Diatech designed their own controllers, considering how almost every other branded costar keyboard seems to have some issue or another.

[leos]

if the people behind the Das admit problems, how can you say it is better than a filco

i dont say its better i say that some things on das like better then on the filco.

1, the case
2, the leds

due the controller issues its no comperable to a filco.

i would like to have one keyboard with the look of das and the keys of a filco. Without controller problems.

[leos]

There's a difference between design and manufacturing. I almost think Diatech designed their own controllers, considering how almost every other branded costar keyboard seems to have some issue or another.

any proof that Diatec designed their own controllers? they have also problems.

filco test


filco another test

filco again

nobody is perfect even diatec!!!!!

[AndrewZorn]

yes but das is a lot less perfect!!!!!!

EDIT arent those all Zero boards?  filco = majestouch around here

[1839cc]

Wasn't it the ALPS based Filcos that had that issue, and not the ones with Cherry switches?

[bigpook]

I have both but would go with the filco.

The filco has better keys, the letters are wearing  off on the Das after about a year of use.The filco is still going strong.

The Das is all shiny which may be a plus for some users. For me it looks cheap and shows smudges and finger prints to easily.

I  don't have the issue with the controller that some do, but maybe thats because I don't type over 100 wpm.

[leos]

yes but das is a lot less perfect!!!!!!

EDIT arent those all Zero boards?  filco = majestouch around here

onother filco link

not all of them



youtube user is wellington1869....maybe a geekhack member??

[ch_123]

onother filco link

not all of them



youtube user is wellington1869....maybe a geekhack member??

Yes, that's a Filco Zero he's using. The Majestouch ones don't have those problems.

[leos]

I have both but would go with the filco.

The filco has better keys, the letters are wearing  off on the Das after about a year of use.The filco is still going strong.

yes the keys are superior

The Das is all shiny which may be a plus for some users. For me it looks cheap and shows smudges and finger prints to easily.

its your point of view. i like shiny. Like the ps3

I  don't have the issue with the controller that some do, but maybe thats because I don't type over 100 wpm.

btw, i can reproduce the issues on das because i write lot in bursts.
words like.... the , das, data, klären, nockenwelle, and many others.

[bigpook]

Sounds like you may like the Das then, but the controller issue will hose you.

Filco?

I have a PS3 too. Its on the shelf and I  don't actually touch the shiny parts. I dust it occasionaly.
Shiny is personal pref., its all good.

All in all, I like the filco better mostly because its not shiny. The letters wearing off of the keys can be a show stopper for some people, I don't really care so much.
The filco is also cleaner looking to me. But all of that is just my personal opinion.

[leos]

Yes, that's a Filco Zero he's using. The Majestouch ones don't have those problems.

you are right, i found this link
geekhack

i asume because i collect the boards and dont use them, going to this mistake.

seems only the fukka filco has this problems.

[leos]

Sounds like you may like the Das then, but the controller issue will hose you.

Filco?

I have a PS3 too. Its on the shelf and I  don't actually touch the shiny parts. I dust it occasionaly.
Shiny is personal pref., its all good.

like the das shiny look ....yes alot, not the errors.
btw, here in germany we have only the choice to go das, because we dont have a distri company for filco or topre.

i use @work and @home only topre. I collect every mechanical keyboard i found on ebay or lokal markts here.

[leos]

Old Das versus Filco review here.  In terms of the most important thing, key feel, the two are almost identical.   Haven't seen the new one yet.  They are taking preorders (again.)

we must wait until early 2010 to take a look to the new das ssss.
http://www.getdigital.de/products/Das_Keyboard_Model_S

[leos]

And remember even on that Fukka Filco the problem was not felt to be as bad as the Das's.   So in other words, plenty of people have used the Filco Fukka and never seen the problem.

same with the das if you dont write above 100WPM

how much is 100 wpm in charakters per min???
---edit---
google helps us wikipedia

i think i am under 100wpm. if i use this open source trainer i ll make 470+ keystrokes per min. If i use tprx i make 132 wpm.
who has right?

Das has superior distribution and (usually) marketing.   The stupid Japanese keep cranking out keyboards like this.

Not in europe

look at the big shops and you find nothing about a "das"

[erricrice]

same with the das if you dont write above 100WPM

how much is 100 wpm in charakters per min???



Not in europe

look at the big shops and you find nothing about a "das"

100 wpm is 500 cpm.

But it is not the sustained speed that is the problem it is the bursts, like you said before on words like the, and , .com stuff like that it might cause a problem.  The first review I saw of the zero fukka the problem was with notepad becoming ntoepad because he bursts that word very very quickly.

But I'm typing on a zero fukka right now, and have been for about a week and have only had it transpose a few times, and it was on very very fast roll.  I type regularly at about 80 wpm and get up to 100 if I'm trying to type for speed.

[bigpook]

FWIW, I have the fukka filco and don't have a problem with transposition errors.
It's a nice keyboard too.

[erricrice]

FWIW, I have the fukka filco and don't have a problem with transposition errors.
It's a nice keyboard too.

Yeah I'm loving it!  Definitely a good purchase.

[elbowglue]

I find the das great for typing, I never hit the transposition problem, although I have had to modify my pattern of typing just for this keyboard.

This is how I type now:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik5MgEas3VY

It's awesome because I never transpose letters anymore.  Thank you das keyboard you have changed my life.

[ch_123]

like the das shiny look ....yes alot, not the errors.
btw, here in germany we have only the choice to go das, because we dont have a distri company for filco or topre.

i use @work and @home only topre. I collect every mechanical keyboard i found on ebay or lokal markts here.

There's a company in the UK that sells them. They ship to Europe too. Some company in Finland sells Topres too.

[leos]

There's a company in the UK that sells them. They ship to Europe too. Some company in Finland sells Topres too.

keyboardco.com??? ...they dont have differed filcos until mid Januar.
and www.verkkokauppa.com in finland ....sells only the 105keys Realforce.

if you know another company who sells the HHKB and the realfonce ansi layout plz tell us.

[ch_123]

Keyboardco sells the ANSI Filcos already.

[leos]

Keyboardco sells the ANSI Filcos already.

FKB104M/EP      Pink Filco Majestouch, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKB104MC/EP      Pink Filco Majestouch, Click Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKB22MB      Filco Majestouch Ten Key Keypad, Tactile Action - New      £40.00     In Stock   

FKBN104M/EB      Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard - New      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN104MC/EB      Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Click Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN104ML/EB      Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Linear Action, USA Keyboard - New      £95.00     In Stock   

FKBN105M/UKB      UK Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Tactile Action - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN105MC/UKB      UK Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Click Action - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN105ML/UKB      UK Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Linear Action - ETA Mid Jan     £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN87M/EB      Filco Tenkeyless N-Key rollover, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £90.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN87MC/EB      Filco Tenkeyless N-Key rollover, Click Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan  



lot of them are out of stock. Not very good for christmas business

[ch_123]

Indeed so. I guess you'll just have to wait a month.

[leos]

No need to wait anymore. I have all the filcos except the pinky one.

[leos]

NO Pinky ONE for Xmas!!!

nö this christmas nikolaus brought to me as gift lam47 otaku.

[joneslee85]

Geezuss, I could not believe this topic is DAS ('that') HOT!! What about N-Key rollover? It's seems to me Das doesn't support NKey. But Das surely looks stylish.

[leos]

Geezuss, I could not believe this topic is DAS ('that') HOT!! What about N-Key rollover? It's seems to me Das doesn't support NKey. But Das surely looks stylish.

N-Key rollover?

the old Das 3 has N-Key ?12? over usb but has controller issues if you writte faster then 100wpm or in bursts.

Filco has N-Key 6 over usb and full N-Key over PS2.

the new das Model S was recalling due to a manufacturing defect. We must wait until januar to see how good or not the new re-relauncht model s is.

btw i find the old das 3 if you writte in a speed about 40-50 wpm (200-250 keystrokes per min) is better then a filco. I had also the usb connect problems that other people here have not.

[AndrewZorn]

12 keys over USB!  Das is a true innovation!


seriously, we're still going on about this?

[erricrice]

12 keys over USB!  Das is a true innovation!


seriously, we're still going on about this?

Hey leave them alone, they're new lol.

Guys, USB can only support 6 keys due to it's spec, so DAS may claim more than that, but it is really impossible.

(Although I do remember hearing something about it sending the characters in more than one burst to achieve more than 6 but still)

[itlnstln]

Hey leave them alone, they're new lol.
 
Guys, USB can only support 6 keys due to it's spec, so DAS may claim more than that, but it is really impossible.
 
(Although I do remember hearing something about it sending the characters in more than one burst to achieve more than 6 but still)

They (Costar, really) were doing some firmware finagling to make the 12KRO work.  Unfortunately, it didn't.  It's not impossible, it's just not standard (using the HID driver, that is).  If you use a custom driver, you can do NKRO, but that would be limited to the OSs the drivers were written for, of course, and you might lose some PnP capability.

[erricrice]

They (Costar, really) were doing some firmware finagling to make the 12KRO work.  Unfortunately, it didn't.  It's not impossible, it's just not standard (using the HID driver, that is).  If you use a custom driver, you can do NKRO, but that would be limited to the OSs the drivers were written for, of course, and you might lose some PnP capability.

Yeah, that's what it was, I just didn't feel like finding the post that explained it lol...

[Mnemonix]

Guys, USB can only support 6 keys due to it's spec, so DAS may claim more than that, but it is really impossible.

Unless, of course, you are counting in the modifier keys; then it's 14KRO using the standard USB HID driver. :wink:

"Real" 12KRO might be possible by registering as two USB keyboards, but that would be like begging for trouble.
FWIW, no, it's impossible to do better than 6KRO over USB w/o special drivers.

[leos]

12 keys over USB!  Das is a true innovation!


seriously, we're still going on about this?

http://www.daskeyboard.com/

"Fast typists and gamers will be glad to hear Das Keyboard has an n-key rollover function allowing up to 12 keys to be pressed simultaneously. Finally, the new Das Keyboard has an extra long USB cable that fits through your desk grommet and keeps your workspace neat and tidy."

the earlier das 3 could register more then 6 keys over usb (perhaps they tune the controller firmware). The connect errors come after:becky:

[AndrewZorn]

OH ****, nevermind, guess i was wrong

EDIT anyone want to trade their Das III for this puny ""*NKRO*"" filco that can only do 6KRO on USB?

[Mnemonix]

Fast typists and gamers will be glad to hear Das Keyboard has an n-key rollover function allowing up to 12 keys to be pressed simultaneously.

Clicking on "Learn more":

Das Keyboard allows up to 6 keys to be pressed simultaneously. Great for fast typists and gamers alike.

Somewhat inconsistent marketing. Their 12KRO claim may refer to PS/2 mode, if there is anything like that on the Das.

the earlier das 3 could register more then 6 keys over usb (perhaps they tune the controller firmware). The connect errors come after:becky:

Maybe they managed to do this using some dirty tricks--definitely non-standard and troublesome.
I'll say that the Das is not a proper USB HID device, even though a beautiful one.

[itlnstln]

12 KRO via USB was for the Das III.  The Das S "follows the rules" and does 6 KRO over USB and NKRO over PS2 like the Filco.  Unfortunately, Costar jacked that up, too.  I guess it was too hard to grab some Filco controllers, and slap those in.  It must be the volume controls.

[leos]

Das Keyboard allows up to 6 keys to be pressed simultaneously. Great for fast typists and gamers alike.

The site "lern more" and "Slide show" refers to new das s

[leos]

12 KRO via USB was for the Das III.  The Das S "follows the rules" and does 6 KRO over USB and NKRO over PS2 like the Filco.  Unfortunately, Costar jacked that up, too.  I guess it was too hard to grab some Filco controllers, and slap those in.  It must be the volume controls.

Exact my Words. Das 3 was/(is for those who write unter 100wpm or not in burst) a good keyboard but Costar jacked/tuned the controller up.

[Chao]

Some keyboards will report up to 16keys OK but then you hit QWA and KABOOM!

That gets at a big question in terminology that I have been pondering...

For the record, I have read the "Do I need NKRO" guide on the Wiki. But from various threads and the wiki, summarized well in your post, tell there's a difference between N-key rollover and a sort of "matrix"-based blocking. The latter seems more important/practical to take note of. I'm not bothered if I can't mash my fingers and get QWASDTYIO at the same time, but it would bother me if a keyboard claimed to be X-keys but excluded certain combinations.

Is there a term to differentiate between the proper acceptance of all X-key combinations (whatever x may be) and not? Is there a term for it or do people who care that much just go for NKRO to begin with?

[AndrewZorn]

Is there a term to differentiate between the proper acceptance of all X-key combinations (whatever x may be) and not? Is there a term for it or do people who care that much just go for NKRO to begin with?

N-Key Rollover vs Logitech "Up to 6" N-Key Rollover: Gamer Edition

[ch_123]

Exact my Words. Das 3 was/(is for those who write unter 100wpm or not in burst) a good keyboard but Costar jacked/tuned the controller up.

Yes, but there's a keyboard (i.e. Filco) that's pretty much the same, except it works, and is the same price. So that kind of makes the Das an inherently bad choice. I mean, it's not like the Scorpius where there's a case to be made for risking dodgy soldering to get a blue Cherry keyboard for $60.

the earlier das 3 could register more then 6 keys over usb

It was advertised so, but I'm not sure it actually could... As AndrewZorn said, why are we still talking about the Das when there's a much better keyboard there for the same money?

[AndrewZorn]

yeah, if it were cheaper there might be more gray area... but when it has the same premium price and bold marketing (THE BEST KEYBOARD EVER MADE... PERIOD.  EVEN THOUGH IT IS AN INFERIOR COPY.) it is hard to not suggest the filco.

[timw4mail]

I mean, it's not like the Scorpius where there's a case to be made for risking dodgy soldering to get a blue Cherry keyboard for $60.

I'd like to note that I still have not had a single issue with my Scorpius.

[Chao]

N-Key Rollover vs Logitech "Up to 6" N-Key Rollover: Gamer Edition

Lolmarketing. Fair enough.
Real question is whether the FILCO boards which are not labeled NKRO on elitekeyboards possess the described quality of restricted combinations or not.

Edit: Given that the site has direct community involvement here, I would assume not, I just like to be safe.

[ch_123]

I'd like to note that I still have not had a single issue with my Scorpius.

I know. But some people have had, even relatively recently. Compare 'risk' with 'defective design'...

[AndrewZorn]

the non NKRO filcos vary in the amount of keys they can take at once, if that is what you are asking

i got as high as 4, as low as 2.

[Chao]

Thanks. That's precisely what I was asking.

[AndrewZorn]

the non NKRO filcos vary in the amount of keys they can take at once, if that is what you are asking

i got as high as 4, as low as 2.

Thanks. That's precisely what I was asking.

which makes it 2-key rollover, to further clarify "the rules"
in other words, i could not find a 2-key combination that did not work.  there are 4 key combinations (+modifiers even, sometimes, something i think should count toward the total, especially considering the gaming implications of NKRO) that worked, but not every 4 key combination worked, so 2KRO.

[elbowglue]

I game perfectly well on non-nkro keyboards.  The main keys that I press simultaneously are AWSD, Shift, Spacebar, left control.  Typing on a NKRO keyboard also is 100% fine - as long as there is no transposition issue, typing words does not require NKRO.

I am sitting in front of my pink filco 105 key which does not have NKRO.  It can do many combinations of 4 letters at the same time, although occasionally blocks when you hit 4 letters at the same time, and only 2 letters come out.  I have gamed on this keyboard and using the AWSD, left shift, spacebar, left control, there are no issues at all of key blocking.

NKRO may be useful in some other games, but I can't think of which games would benefit from it.  I usually play CS:S, L4dD2, or warcraft / starcraft kinda games.  Long and short is you don't need NKRO to play today's games.  

(EDIT- Disclaimer, IMHO, you may not need NKRO to play the games I cited above, as it has been my experience that I play them fine with non NKRO boards.)

[ch_123]

Can't we just all get along and agree that it's a bad keyboard?

[AndrewZorn]

I game perfectly well on non-nkro keyboards.  The main keys that I press simultaneously are AWSD, Shift, Spacebar, left control.  Typing on a NKRO keyboard also is 100% fine - as long as there is no transposition issue, typing words does not require NKRO.

I am sitting in front of my pink filco 105 key which does not have NKRO.  It can do many combinations of 4 letters at the same time, although occasionally blocks when you hit 4 letters at the same time, and only 2 letters come out.  I have gamed on this keyboard and using the AWSD, left shift, spacebar, left control, there are no issues at all of key blocking.

NKRO may be useful in some other games, but I can't think of which games would benefit from it.  I usually play CS:S, L4dD2, or warcraft / starcraft kinda games.  Long and short is you don't need NKRO to play today's games.

and now that you have my brown cherry board and i have your blue cherry board, it is worth mentioning that NKRO isnt the end all be all for a GAYMEN keyboard either.  having to let the switch click UP to be able to register another downstroke consistently is a major downer for games.  good thing i still plan on using my HHKB for games, despite its perceived impropriety for them...

still love the new keyboard, adding blues to my collection which also has brown is making it that much more complete...

[Chao]

which makes it 2-key rollover, to further clarify "the rules"
in other words, i could not find a 2-key combination that did not work.  there are 4 key combinations (+modifiers even, sometimes, something i think should count toward the total, especially considering the gaming implications of NKRO) that worked, but not every 4 key combination worked, so 2KRO.

Got it and got it.

6KRO!!!   MORE DIODES!!!

Sorry to have derailed the thread from Das v. FILCO (I think the topic was well concluded anyway?) but one last question: The diode that, from what I gather, is used for NKRO is placed in the nice little nook that Cherries have optionally for an LED, correct?

[ch_123]

As far as I know, the diodes are on the circuit board itself.

[timw4mail]

for a GAYMEN keyboard

I'm very straight, thank you.

[Chao]

As far as I know, the diodes are on the circuit board itself.

Glorious. Simply glorious.

[itlnstln]

The diode that, from what I gather, is used for NKRO is placed in the nice little nook that Cherries have optionally for an LED, correct?

Some manufacturers use the slot in the switch, and others mount them elsewhere.  Ultimately, though, they are connected directly to the circuit board.

[AndrewZorn]

yeah but im sure $1 turns into $50 once you end up hiring more marketing people, redoing the box design for more zazz, increasing profits, etc... it is not as simple as $1.

[keyb_gr]

The diode that, from what I gather, is used for NKRO is placed in the nice little nook that Cherries have optionally for an LED, correct?

Depends. Seems like Filcos have the diodes seperately. I'd guess they prefer to stick with more easily available diodeless switches (the only ones commonly supplied with diode are blacks). No keyboard manufacturer would take the extra time to equip the switches with diodes.

[AndrewZorn]

Don't forget the stoopid gamers that pay the extra $50.

How much did your G9 cost again?

didnt expect me to say $20 did you
EDIT not that it isnt worth more
i liked my MX518 and all but this one is really nice
holding settings without special software (before jokes about DIP switches) is really nice in itself

i was joking (about the $50 thing), but right now they ARE getting people to pay extra for NKRO, because they can.  what i dont understand is the lack of NKRO keyboards in general... for instance, why cant you just take a 'normal' keyboard (that does not have a premium NKRO version right beside it) and diode it up, making it complete?  cherry finds a way to spend the extra few cents on POM keys, filco has the neat accessories and overall quality, but everyone forgets one really important thing.  if they just put diodes on stuff like the M10, without making two different VERSIONS, it would put the filco premium nonsense to shame.

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I told the iRocks rep that used to hang around here (before we got too obnoxious we DID have reps hang around here BTW) that he needs to have corporate make a $50 mechanical 6-Key keyboard. Do what the Taiwanese do best - undercut on price but keep the quality up.

That would have been gold, but they jacked up their $100 offering.  Granted, it was just the layout, but still.  Their Cherry brown 'board would have been a sure-buy if it weren't for that damn layout.

[ricercar]

Yeah, I told the iRocks rep that used to hang around here (before we got too obnoxious we DID have reps hang around here BTW)

iRocks Jeff gone away? Bummer. I still owe him a review of their glow-in-the-dark rubber dome.

[alpslover]

Long and short is you don't need NKRO to play today's games.

you're assuming that others play the same games, use the same key combinations, and have the same keyboards as you.

what you should have said is 'long and short is, i don't need nkro to play today's games'.

nkro isn't necessary for gaming, but it does guarantee that you'll never have to worry about key blocking because all key combinations work.

[elbowglue]

you're assuming that others play the same games, use the same key combinations, and have the same keyboards as you.

what you should have said is 'long and short is, i don't need nkro to play today's games'.

nkro isn't necessary for gaming, but it does guarantee that you'll never have to worry about key blocking because all key combinations work.

That's why I prefaced it with what games I play, what key combos I use.

Your mileage may vary, if you play different games, or if you use different key combos, or if you play at a whole different level of gaming than I do, you may find NKRO useful.

Anything I ever post is only the opinion of myself.  Any advice I give is only what I feel to be helpful to others here.

I have had NKRO filcos, non NKRO filcos, non NKRO Chicony and Dell AT101, non NKRO Cherry g86 board, a ton of rubber dome boards.  This is my prior experience.  The games I play are CS:S, TF2, Warcraft 3, starcraft, L4d2.

If you are playing other games or using other applications in the future that require multiple simltaneous keypressess, your experience may be different.

Just know that if a game maker releases a game which requires a keyboard with NKRO to play the game, the majority of the world with standard keyboards will not be able to play it well, and will probably complain.

I would also like a good example of a game that really benefits from NKRO keyboard.  Multiplayer Star Control comes to mind, but of course, that is a little on the old side.

[1839cc]

Occasionally even single player Star Control. Especially if you have to hold more than one key at a time, such as turn+thrust+shoot.

[AndrewZorn]

i mean, i tend to favor it only for "what if"s.  with as many people using gaymen boards, model Ms, etc... i cant imagine it has a huge impact on anything.  more or less a feature that i think should be the norm, something that just kind of reassures me.

even FPSs can get by fine because of the WASD placement and the modifiers not really counting towards the rollover limit.

[timw4mail]

I guess this makes the Model F the perfect keyboard for gaming too.

[Mental Hobbit]

If you are playing other games or using other applications in the future that require multiple simltaneous keypressess, your experience may be different.

Or if you're left-handed and can't use WASD without breaking your fingers.
Apparently this hasn't occurred to any manufacturer, as I haven't seen a standard keyboard that registers more that 2 keys on the numpad yet.

[AndrewZorn]

Q for smoke grenade?  Q isnt smoke grenade, it's lean, and you dont need to lean when...

oh wait...

thats right!  MW2 is a paradise for noobs, leaning was taken out, because it is too hard to do with a controller.

totally forgot.

[AndrewZorn]

the future is Halo 4: Part 3: Content Pack 2: $5.99
With the new H4P3CP2 add-on, you no longer take damage from your own grenades!  Buy now to have the gaymen ADVANTAGE!  Also unlocks two previously stashed-away-on-disc multiplayer levels.

i was thinking about the F.  i think it could work.

[itlnstln]

Plus I like Diodes. I like my electrons going only one way. This is not a sexual reference.

Exit only, right?

[timw4mail]

I find control in the place of Caps Lock to be superior for crouching. And I've yet to play a major game that has Alt as an important key.