heat shrink tubing around model M springs

[wellington1869]

So what would happen if you put heat shrink tubing around the buckling springs in a model M. (dont apply any heat, just leave it loose and soft).

Would that reduce the noise enough to make it livable? (For those of us who have noise concerns)?

Any thoughts on this wacky idea? Anyone want to try it out?

[lam47]

I think you would get inconsistent feeling and sound from key to key.
Interesting idea though.
I have loads of heat shrink but no model M. If anyone wants to send me one...  

[wellington1869]

Here's a question: what specifically is the main source of noise on the buckling spring? I'm thinking specifically it is the spring, buckling, and the buckled part physically "clack" hitting the side of the plastic as it buckles.

If thats so, coating the inside of the keycap with grease (as some suggested) should dampen that "clack!" hit.  I believe that is basically what unicomp does with their 60 dollar quietkey "service", though since I havent heard a quietkey keyboard I dont know how effective or ineffective that is.

Alternately, covering the spring with rubber condom (like heatshrink stuff that is flexible) might do it.

or, to do both. A condom as well as grease lubricant. Like an well-planned orgy.

[wellington1869]

incidentally, here's a "soft touch model M" with the "grease injected into the springs" thing. it was actually an official model M model, apparently.  I still think grease plus condom opens up real possibilities for anyone to get a live-able model M in their home and not terrify the cat and annoy the wife.

[bigpook]

I would think the heat shrink would degrade over time. The constant action would break it down and the pieces would fall to the bottom, possibly hosing up the key.

[lam47]

I would think the heat shrink would degrade over time. The constant action would break it down and the pieces would fall to the bottom, possibly hosing up the key.

I agree with this for sure.
The springs are pretty abrasive and would cut through almost anything.

[wellington1869]

I would think the heat shrink would degrade over time. The constant action would break it down and the pieces would fall to the bottom, possibly hosing up the key.

good point, and a bummer. maybe flexible plastic tubing would be more durable. On the other hand, arent rubber membranes just that, rubber membranes? They seem to last long enough.

[lowpoly]

Good one, wellington. Rubber domes are made from silicone. Maybe not all but I have some that have "silicone" printed on them. That could last.

[wellington1869]

Good one, wellington. Rubber domes are made from silicone. Maybe not all but I have some that have "silicone" printed on them. That could last.

so some kind of silicon tubing. Maybe from the plumbers/bathroom section in home depot.

[wellington1869]

more deets on how the greased springs work.
tho i'm still thinking some kind of condom would help or be better.

unicomp's "quiet touch" buckling spring usb keyboard is 69 bucks.

[lowpoly]

This silicone tubing must be thin though. Maybe medical supply.

[alpslover]

i think it would interfere with the action of the buckling spring mechanism.

[wellington1869]

This silicone tubing must be thin though. Maybe medical supply.

good idea, thats a possibility.
I'd love to experiment with this condom idea.

[iMav]

I say type loud and proud or go home!!  

Seriously, I think this would adversely effect the feel of the keys.  If you want a quieter keyboard, I'd simply go with a Cherry brown or Topre switch.

[wellington1869]

I say type loud and proud or go home!!  

problem is they wont let me type loud and proud AT home!!!

Seriously, I think this would adversely effect the feel of the keys.  

you're prolly right. something to fool around with and experiment tho. sometime when i have the time I guess. I'll put it up in the keyboard mod section

[itlnstln]

problem is they wont let me type loud and proud AT home!!!

I think that's a situation you are going to have to handle.  I can see, maybe, that you might not want to type loud at work (I do, but I don't give a damn), but at home???  I think you need to put your foot down.

[wellington1869]

I think that's a situation you are going to have to handle.  I can see, maybe, that you might not want to type loud at work (I do, but I don't give a damn), but at home???  I think you need to put your foot down.

well, what I really need to do is move into a bigger place. More space would likely solve this problem. A nice private office or work area.

But until then...

[philodox]

I think some form of lubricant for the springs is your best bet.  I'm going to play around with this when my Model M's come in.

[wellington1869]

I think some form of lubricant for the springs is your best bet.  I'm going to play around with this when my Model M's come in.

I'd love to hear your results, especially audio clips showing the difference in sound. I've been meaning to experiment with this for a while.

[lowpoly]

Like this, 3mm might be too small though:

silicone tube 3x0.4mm (site in german)

[zwmalone]

unicomp's "quiet touch" buckling spring usb keyboard is 69 bucks.

If I remember, Unicomp's quiet touch is a rubber dome board, but for $40 they'll grease the springs for you.

[bigpook]

Thats too bad though, part of a BS keyboard is the noise they generate. I read your posts and understand your concern, but it seems like a lot of trouble to quiet the springs. I read somewhere that you can grease the springs like you are thinking but it may take some years off of the serviceability of the keyboard.
Besides are the BS keys really that loud? Maybe in a library, but most places have enough back ground noise going on anways.......

[wellington1869]

Thats too bad though, part of a BS keyboard is the noise they generate. I read your posts and understand your concern, but it seems like a lot of trouble to quiet the springs. I read somewhere that you can grease the springs like you are thinking but it may take some years off of the serviceability of the keyboard.
Besides are the BS keys really that loud? Maybe in a library, but most places have enough back ground noise going on anways.......

well, my perpetual quest has been to find the right volume level. It sounds silly but in large degree thats what my search for the perfect keyboard has come down to!

If it were up to me I'd be on white alps and buckling springs.

The right volume level (until my current situation at home changes anyway) is something just lower than blue cherries. (blue cherries have been just borderline in terms of noise).  So actually I'm hopeful black alps will be "just right".  I've got a dell at101w coming.

Greased buckling springs might work for me, I dont need them to be totally silent (else I'd just be on membranes, blech), but the volume does need to be below a certain threshold.  Greased BS might do that, I'd like to find out.  If that works out, I'd still enjoy the tactile feel of them, plus a slight click would be fine.

[wellington1869]

If I remember, Unicomp's quiet touch is a rubber dome board, but for $40 they'll grease the springs for you.

I believe unicomp quiet touch is greased buckling springs...

[wellington1869]

Like this, 3mm might be too small though:

silicone tube 3x0.4mm (site in german)

yes so long as its flexible enough, it would be interesting to stick the springs into tubing like this to see what effect it has.

[bigpook]

Greased buckling springs might work for me, I dont need them to be totally silent (else I'd just be on membranes, blech), but the volume does need to be below a certain threshold.  Greased BS might do that, I'd like to find out.  If that works out, I'd still enjoy the tactile feel of them, plus a slight click would be fine.

I suppose the grease would calm some of the noise, but the keys would still be tactile, after all there is still a spring in there.  So I wouldn't worry about somehow making it into a membrane keyboard or something.

I am lucky I guess, I can make all the keyboard noise I want at home or at work.

[zwmalone]

I believe unicomp quiet touch is greased buckling springs...

Quiet Touch is rubber dome, Soft Touch is a factory-greased model m.

[wellington1869]

Quiet Touch is rubber dome, Soft Touch is a factory-greased model m.

well they have this model which they're calling "Enhanced Quiet Touch" (just to make things even more complicated) which is apparently greased buckling springs on a spacesaver model. I guess thats the one I was referring to.

Or is that membrane? If so they really shouldnt be advertising it on the same pulldown menu with buckling spring models!

I sent them an email asking them to clarify. If they say its membrane, I'm going to tell them that that is some of the worst false advertizing I've ever seen.

[wellington1869]

I suppose the grease would calm some of the noise, but the keys would still be tactile, after all there is still a spring in there.  So I wouldn't worry about somehow making it into a membrane keyboard or something.

thats what i'm hopin'

I am lucky I guess, I can make all the keyboard noise I want at home or at work.

a real luxury. count your blessings

[wellington1869]

I sent them an email asking them to clarify. If they say its membrane, I'm going to tell them that that is some of the worst false advertizing I've ever seen.

They replied, straight from the horses mouth:

The Enhanced Quiet Touch model is a heavy rubber dome model, the same as when IBM made them 25 years ago, Our web site is being renovated so about the only thing currently available is the ability to order our keyboards. I am sorry for the confusion

To which I say, Gah.

[xsphat]

I type loud and proud like iMav says, even on the Topre switch or the membrane I have at work. But, like Wellington, there is a time to be considerate.

[bhtooefr]

Their website has been being renovated for over a year now.

Anyway, if it says "quiet," it's rubber dome. "Soft" is greased BS.

[wellington1869]

Their website has been being renovated for over a year now.

Anyway, if it says "quiet," it's rubber dome. "Soft" is greased BS.

good to know, thanks

[fkeidjn]

One manufacturing idea would be instead of using buckling springs made of metal, buckling springs made of high-memory plastic (maybe fiberglass or carbon fiber?) would be used.  I'm predicting with that, the touch would be lighter and quieter, but there would still be a tactile feel.

[wellington1869]

One manufacturing idea would be instead of using buckling springs made of metal, buckling springs made of high-memory plastic (maybe fiberglass or carbon fiber?) would be used.  I'm predicting with that, the touch would be lighter and quieter, but there would still be a tactile feel.

I thought about this, I think I've seen "plastic springs" somewhere, I'm pretty sure they make them. If they're durable enough, I think that would be a great idea. You'd get a soft click instead of a bell-ringing clang.

[bhtooefr]

Not so sure you would, as it'd still hit the key towers with every keystroke, because buckling spring relies upon a violent buckling. It'll be a different sound, but I think it'll be nearly as loud, unless you soften up your springs a lot, which will make the keyboard quite mushy.

What you really need to do is make what's currently the key towers out of rubber, and then create another structure around the towers to let the keys slide (because rubber key towers won't be stable.)

That way, the springs will hit something flexible, and won't make nearly as loud of a sound. Unfortunately, it'll require completely re-engineering the keyboard, but it'll probably still be cheaper and have better feel than carbon fiber springs.

[Chloe]

Another idea would be to make the casing that the spring hits out of a denser material so that it better absorbed the sound.

[wellington1869]

I guess the other approach then is to paint or coat the inside of the keycap with something rubbery.  I'm sure there must be some kind of rubber coating paint out there. A rubber/silicone boot on the spring sounds easier though.

I wonder why the folks at IBM didnt look into  modifications to the basic buckling design once they realized that the mass market was preferring quieter keyboards. They just jumped from this awesome design straight into membranes. Seems like there should have been a transition design.

[itlnstln]

Price.

Rubber domes are cheaper.  Any modifications IBM could have made to make keyboards quieter would not have made up for the price difference.  Model Ms were very expensive keyboards in their time ($150, or so, I think).  The M15, I think, was over $200.  You pay for quality; most people would rather not pay.

[Chloe]

I'm sure there must be some kind of rubber coating paint out there.

There's Plasti Dip:
http://www.plastidip.co.uk/

[wellington1869]

There's Plasti Dip:
http://www.plastidip.co.uk/

this opens up possiblities too.


I'll bet tho that the combination of silicone boot and grease would produce real results.  I hope to try this out at some point. Would really love to have a quieter buckling spring.

I'm tempted to buy the regular space saver unicomp model for 70 (the BS one, not the membrane one, obviously) just to try this out. (I kind of need the space saver model cuz I need the  shorter spacebar cuz I use the two alt keys with my thumbs for autohotkey shortcuts... with a longer spacebar my thumbs dont reach them). So I cant just get any model M (most classic model M layouts have a spacebar that isnt comfortable for this purpose for me, the thumb reach is too long).

If i'm going to drop 70 bucks tho I need to wait a little while, since I just spent nearly 200 experimenting with keyboards  already this month.

[alpslover]

I wonder why the folks at IBM didnt look into  modifications to the basic buckling design once they realized that the mass market was preferring quieter keyboards. They just jumped from this awesome design straight into membranes. Seems like there should have been a transition design.

there was.  they put grease on the springs.

[lowpoly]

Maybe use a tiny strip of Velcro as a dampener? It's available as self-adhesive tape.

[bhtooefr]

However, they only did that on a few keyboards sold with the RS/6000 workstations, and Unicomp won't provide a warranty on keyboards that they grease (citing possible grease migration problems.)

It's a very labor intensive procedure, too, and IBM is all about lowering manufacturing costs. I'm going to guess that the buckling spring mechanisms can be robotically assembled, and everything just drops in - they could probably make a complete Model M from the component parts in five minutes or so.

(The IBM Proprinter, which was released in 1985, could be assembled by a human in three minutes, IIRC, but it was designed from the ground up for robotic assembly, and used no screws whatsoever.)

Anything you can do to make a BS keyboard quieter also makes it more expensive to manufacture, and that's the last thing you want. Even a late IBM UK-built keyboard cost about $99 from IBM. The M15 cost $149, IIRC, or $179 for a version with a numpad. (And now the damned things are worth almost a kilobuck.)

[wellington1869]

there was.  they put grease on the springs.

true. I meant a change to the components themselves though. But I guess it was too expensive.

[wellington1869]

Maybe use a tiny strip of Velcro as a dampener? It's available as self-adhesive tape.

If there's enough room on the inside of the keycap, sticking something in there could work. That way the spring would thwack against the tape. Velcro may be too thick  but I've seen rubber tape (thicker than electrical tape). Grippy tape or handlebar tape might work too. ALso there's vinyl tape which I've used before. Hmmmmm.

For that matter, a regular drinking straw might work too, a wide one so the spring still has room to 'buckle' inside it. And just hits the straw when it buckles.

[itlnstln]

kilobuck

WIN!!!  This had me rolling!