Author Topic: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?  (Read 10920 times)

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Offline hwood34

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 09 March 2016, 14:13:43 »
Although I would be quite happy to see him as Secretary of the Treasury, and she would owe him that at the minimum.

Why again does she owe him that? I'd like to see her select a cabinet of people experienced, or at least half-knowledgeable, in the respective areas.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 March 2016, 14:16:25 by hwood34 »
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 09 March 2016, 14:26:09 »
select a cabinet of people experienced

Well, Elizabeth Warren would probably be better, if she were willing to accept it.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline mastermachetier

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 09 March 2016, 21:09:20 »
I honestly think Hillary will win it all anyways.

I hope not.  Last thing we need Slick Willy Part 2.

This x Infinity

I mean she's almost definitely going to...

At least in polls Kasich looks like the only one that would win over her and we all now what sort of chance Kasich has...

Kasich is the only person that looks somewhat reasonable and I can actually agree with some of his points. He seems to consider things reasonably before speaking. The other candidates look like children bickering compared to him. On a side not run drinking game if you want to die, take a shot every time Ronald Reagan is mentioned in a republican debate.

You could do that just watching the ads that Marco Rubio is running.

Otherwise, I am for once really proud of Michigan and our choice of Sanders yesterday, especially given the fact that he was down by over 20 points to Clinton in the last poll.  It also looks to be the biggest upset in US primaries polling since they started running them, as he made up almost 25 points to take it away from Hillary!

I am a huge Bernie fan to be honest. He seems like refreshing change from the "establishment' and he has a record to back it.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 10 March 2016, 12:26:11 »
Wait a moment JD, I haven't heard from you in a long time, but you support Ted Cruz? He's ultra religious and has been bringing religion into affairs of state. It's terribly worrying to anyone not of his religious persuasion.

Actually, he isn't ultra religious. His message has been tailored to reach a certain demographic (evangelical Christians), to try and reach voters who didn't vote in the last election. Cruz is a staunch defender of the US Constitution, which is why I support him over any other candidate.

FYI, I'm not a Republican. I don't identify with any current political party. I am a libertarian conservative, which means I usually vote for the Republican candidate in elections over the Democrat nominee, because the Republican Party more closely identifies with my ideals than does the Democrat Party. However, I will not vote for Donald Trump in any case. If he is the Republican nominee, I will either write in my choice, or not vote at all. Trump supporters hate this, because they are sure that people NOT voting for Trump will ensure the Democrat will be elected. But I cannot in good conscience vote for Donald J. Trump. I would rather Hillary/Bernie get elected, and have a chance for a real conservative/libertarian candidate in 2020, than put Trump into office, and eliminate any chance that anyone other than him or a liberal/progressive get elected until 2024.
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Offline Waateva

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 10 March 2016, 13:31:44 »
Wait a moment JD, I haven't heard from you in a long time, but you support Ted Cruz? He's ultra religious and has been bringing religion into affairs of state. It's terribly worrying to anyone not of his religious persuasion.

Actually, he isn't ultra religious. His message has been tailored to reach a certain demographic (evangelical Christians), to try and reach voters who didn't vote in the last election. Cruz is a staunch defender of the US Constitution, which is why I support him over any other candidate.

FYI, I'm not a Republican. I don't identify with any current political party. I am a libertarian conservative, which means I usually vote for the Republican candidate in elections over the Democrat nominee, because the Republican Party more closely identifies with my ideals than does the Democrat Party. However, I will not vote for Donald Trump in any case. If he is the Republican nominee, I will either write in my choice, or not vote at all. Trump supporters hate this, because they are sure that people NOT voting for Trump will ensure the Democrat will be elected. But I cannot in good conscience vote for Donald J. Trump. I would rather Hillary/Bernie get elected, and have a chance for a real conservative/libertarian candidate in 2020, than put Trump into office, and eliminate any chance that anyone other than him or a liberal/progressive get elected until 2024.

I can't help but believe that Ted Cruz would turn this country into a Christian version of Iran if he is given the chance.  With as much as I dislike Trump the only thing that doesn't unsettle me about him is that he has historically been very secular, however, Cruz has always pushed a very specific brand of Evangelical Conservatism that frankly scares the **** out of me.  I was born and raised in it and still live in an area saturated in it, so imagining the people that I interact with on a daily basis becoming the majority in this country and being able to make their wedge issues into law is more scary to me than Trump's idiocy.
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Offline hwood34

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 11 March 2016, 14:40:08 »
Imagine if I had a religion that stated that all people with physical deformities or disabilities have those disabilities because they have been touched by the devil or did some great evil in their life.  Should I be able to refuse service to them at my business based upon their disability because I believe that they are evil?   

Unless you have a literal monopoly and those people have no other options where to take their business, yes. It's stupid and ****ty and honestly I can't believe we still live in an age where a decent amount of the population would refuse service to people like gays, but it's their right as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason, including ones you may not agree with.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 12:44:51 »
Cruz is a staunch defender of the US Constitution, which is why I support him over any other candidate.

FYI, I'm not a Republican. I don't identify with any current political party. I am a libertarian conservative, which means I usually vote for the Republican candidate in elections over the Democrat nominee, because the Republican Party more closely identifies with my ideals than does the Democrat Party.

JD, I don't even know how to respond, but at least I like the fact that you have your own mind.

I was wondering about my own politics not so long ago.

My views on immigration/ migration are what the usual Euro-PC-folks would call far right.

My views on income redistribution, social safety nets, social levelling, women and gay rights are what conservatives would call far left.

The result is that I fit in nowhere and have political disputes with nearly everyone.

And the more the mainstream media hates on Trump, the more attractive he comes across to me.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:03:10 »
it's their right as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason, including ones you may not agree with.

That is absolutely disgusting.  It makes me want to vomit to think that any American citizen could actually feel that way.

It is absolutely your right to refuse to invite anyone into your home, for any reason, but when you open your doors to do business with the public you have a duty to society to obey the laws of the land.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline hwood34

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:08:39 »
it's their right as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason, including ones you may not agree with.

That is absolutely disgusting.  It makes me want to vomit to think that any American citizen could actually feel that way.

Tell us how you really feel.

Oh and thanks for taking out the context of my wholeheartedly disagreeing with the views of people who would do that.
« Last Edit: Sat, 12 March 2016, 13:25:21 by hwood34 »
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:00:38 »
it's their right as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason, including ones you may not agree with.

That is absolutely disgusting.  It makes me want to vomit to think that any American citizen could actually feel that way.

It is absolutely your right to refuse to invite anyone into your home, for any reason, but when you open your doors to do business with the public you have a duty to society to obey the laws of the land.

Fohat, I am surprised that you can take hwood's words out of context given that there was only one short paragraph.

As hwood stressed, he did not agree with many people's opinions. But that he also believes in the freedom of business owners to decide who to sell to.

business owners discriminate all the time, every day. They make decisions on what is more likely to be a good customer, or who has money to pay, or who looks better in their shop and who would make their store look disreputable.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If David Duke walked into a kosher confectionary and said: "hey kikes, I want to buy a cake in the shape of a pig. Don't forget to put a swastika on it and a message that says Hitler Rules. I'll pay you twice your stated price, and all that money comes from my fellow Klansmen who just robbed a yid."

Now do you want to force the Jewish shopowner to make a cake for David Duke?

I won't even accept legislation that forces the Jewish shopowner to put up with David Duke in his shop for one nanosecond. He should be able to order David Duke or Dieudonne M'bala (France's version of David Duke) to get out right away, regardless of whether anything offensive was said or ordered.

The Hong Kong government just barred and deported Dieudonne M'bala at the airport without him having said anything against Jews on HK soil. I think that's a good move. Business people should be able to make the same decisions on their own. I should be able to bar David Duke from bringing his stinking ways into my hotel, ruining the ambience of my restaurant, soiling the rental cars I have for hire, etc.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:32:59 »
Oh and thanks for taking out the context of my wholeheartedly disagreeing with the views of people who would do that.

I don't really care about anyone's "views" since they will surely cover the entire spectrum and cannot be reconciled.

But personal views cannot be allowed to dictate public behavior. If you are doing business in and with the public, then you are bound to follow society's mandates. It is my belief that "real" Americans are people who stand up for "liberty and justice for all" and that people who don't shouldn't pretend that waving a flag makes them good citizens.

My quarrel with hwood34 was his defense of the "right" of a hateful businessperson to inappropriate and unacceptable behavior towards the public. Defending the behavior is as bad, or worse, than defending the attitude. Even I will agree that the businessperson has the right to any personal feeling, as long as it remains internal.

Berserkfan's example was irrelevant because it was really about hate speech, already out of bounds, not business. The lesbian couple denied the wedding cake were not denied because of any untoward behavior or insult, real or perceived, to the baker.

How many of you can remember "colored" bathrooms, drinking fountains, and schools? I can.

Don't imagine that a "Straights Only" sign is any different from a "Whites Only" sign.

« Last Edit: Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:44:05 by fohat.digs »
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:43:29 »
Put the shoe on the other foot. If David Duke walked into a kosher confectionary and said: "hey kikes, I want to buy a cake in the shape of a pig. Don't forget to put a swastika on it and a message that says Hitler Rules. I'll pay you twice your stated price, and all that money comes from my fellow Klansmen who just robbed a yid."

Now do you want to force the Jewish shopowner to make a cake for David Duke?

I won't even accept legislation that forces the Jewish shopowner to put up with David Duke in his shop for one nanosecond. He should be able to order David Duke or Dieudonne M'bala (France's version of David Duke) to get out right away, regardless of whether anything offensive was said or ordered.

The Hong Kong government just barred and deported Dieudonne M'bala at the airport without him having said anything against Jews on HK soil. I think that's a good move. Business people should be able to make the same decisions on their own. I should be able to bar David Duke from bringing his stinking ways into my hotel, ruining the ambience of my restaurant, soiling the rental cars I have for hire, etc.

This is histrionic nonsense.

The comparison you're making seems to imply a pair of flamboyant drag queens sashaying into a bakery dripping with crosses and manned by nuns, demanding a cake covered in rainbows and 'Sodomy rules'. This is ridiculous.

Here's the actual scenario for most gay marriages:

David and Duke are getting married. They walk into a nice bakery they've heard makes great wedding cakes. They want to order a lovely traditional cake with flower accents I their wedding color of light blue. The only deviation from any other wedding cake is they need two groom figures on the top rather than a bride and a groom. That's it. Just a cake.

Now the baker might still be anti-gay and refuse them, but they aren't doing anything even remotely like your appeal to outrage.
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Offline kurplop

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 18:30:21 »
I know some will have a hard time understanding how another can disapprove of a person's choices and still care about them. Some will assume that a businessman has to be "hateful"', if they are offended by what they are asked to do. While I'm sure that is sometimes the case, I think more often than not it is not.

I've owned a construction business for most of my working life and have probably turned down 90% of the work I've been offered. I've worked for blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, and gays, as well as people of various religions and class. I have never turned down a job because of any of those classifications. I've had the privilege to be selective about the jobs I would pick. Usually, the deciding factors are how interesting the project is and whether I think my personality and my clients will work well together. My jobs can last up to a year and I aim to make the process, as well as the end product, something my customers will rave about for years. I've learned over the years that I work better with some personality types than others and that some types of projects are better suited for my skills. Because of this, I get a knee jerk reaction when I hear about businesses having their freedoms stripped from them because of still another regulation that they have to comply with.

I don't understand why the government is even involved in such minor squabbles. It would be different if the couple was denied buying a cake off the shelf, but requiring the baker to make something that they don't normally do is like forcing a motorcycle repair shop to fix your toaster. You might be able to make a case if there wasn't another local bakery, but that wasn't the case. If the baker refused to serve the couple simply because the are gay, now that is something legitimate, but to force the baker to make something he's uncomfortable doing is a violation of his liberties.

As for me, I'm just going to lay low for a couple more years until I retire so that I'm not forced to build somebody a geodesic dome

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 18:54:40 »

businesses having their freedoms stripped from them because of still another regulation that they have to comply with.


Having to show basic fundamental respect for your fellow man is defined as complying with a regulation that strips your freedom from you?

It seems inherent in: " .... establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, .... promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty .... "

I, too, am in construction, and I, too, turn down 90% of potential work if it is not a proper fit all around, but that is nothing even remotely like refusing service in an eating establishment.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline kurplop

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 19:16:32 »
I don't know how forcing a business to do something that offends them is a good fit.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #65 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 19:33:44 »
I don't know how forcing a business to do something that offends them is a good fit.

A business cannot be "offended" because it does not have a consciousness, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad_Co. notwithstanding.

The notion of corporate personhood is a vile perversion and needs to be eradicated.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline kurplop

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 20:42:05 »
fohat–  Being a sole proprietorship, I, personally, have the distinction of not only carrying the full risk of my business but am also denied the rights that an employee is guaranteed. I thought it was me who invested in tools, training, licensing, getting up early and working late. I thought I was the one who sacrificed weekends to protect my businesses reputation. My name is even on by business. My crew was trained by me and were paid even if I wasn't. If I wasn't around the business wouldn't even exist but I'm supposed to ignore my gut intuition and believe a Wikipedia article you produce. 

A business is not a person but its owner is. I don't know what kind of an operation you ran but I cared about every aspect of my business because it represented me, my ethics, my skill, my role in the community, and my commitment to my clients and employees. Maybe if people would see that businesses have identities, in the figurative sense, and that they have a responsibility to be an asset to the community rather than just a money making machine, some of the ills that Bernie Sanders is always railing about would disappear.

Also, in case you missed it, I agreed that denying similar services to some and refusing others is wrong.  You might want to reread what I said. Some people just seem to look for the bad in others and filter out the good. 

   

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 20:44:15 »


A business cannot be "offended" because it does not have a consciousness

What about a sole proprietorship? According to the IRS, I am a business.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #68 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 20:58:07 »

A business is not a person but its owner is.
   

I did read your post and I sympathize entirely. But it is difficult to paint each piece with a different brush, so rules usually end up heavy-handed.

The underlying problem is that you cannot have it both ways. A small business with a conscientious owner will be 180 degrees different from the Koch brothers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil

What I can't understand is why small business owners are so determined to side with the big bad guys. Universal health care would be an monumental boon to small business owners (real reform, that is, a single-payer system like almost every other developed nation on the planet enjoys, not the cobbled-together rondolay of giveaways, "incentives" and punishments that masquerade as a "system" in the US (both before and after the Affordable Healthcare Act, which was really important but also a gargantuan giveaway to Big Pharma and the insurance industry)).

Bernie Sanders would level the playing field and make life far better for everyone who is not making over a million dollars a year. And even the impact on them would be all but insignificant, in the grand scheme of things.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline kurplop

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 13 March 2016, 08:21:13 »
Fohat– thanks for your response. There are several things at the core of my resistance to big government, and I'm willing to sacrifice many personal conveniences to protect the individual from the abuse of a too-far reaching central body.

Before stating my concerns, I'd rather identify where I believe we share common ground.
 I think, foremost, we are both concerned about people and how we can best relieve them of unnecessary troubles when we have the power to do so. I suspect that you, like I, not only theorize about this but tangibly act on this by doing various things like donating money and goods, volunteering at school and community events, helping at shelters, etc.
 I think we both have a strong sense of justice and fairness, and actively get involves to help balance the scales when possible.
 I think we are both passionate about ideas and we have to be mindful not to attack the individual when we really mean to only challenge their views.
 

I believe that people can share many core values, and yet their backgrounds can lead them to radically different solutions. One area that you and I differ on is the role of the central government in providing assistance to the underprivileged. It's not that I'm against providing help to those who need it; I can even see some advantages in having it managed on the federal level. Some of my concerns have to do with the inefficiencies of multi-layered bureaucracy and the increased opportunity for fraud (both by the recipient and the agency). My greatest concern, however, is that this  process breeds, on one side a feeling of resentment , and on the other side a sense of entitlement. When the haves voluntarily give to the have nots, it fosters a contagious sense of charity and generosity in the giver and gratitude in the recipient. These traits are reduced when possessions are confiscated and redistributed by a central authority and the farther the authority is away the more the desired traits are diminished.

Closely related to public assistance is the governments role in assuring healthcare for all. I don't think a single payer universal healthcare plan is ideal but given the absolute mess we've made of the current system by obstructionists on both sides, I think it is probably the logical and inevitable solution. My concerns include further increases to the national debt, an ever-increasing dependence on the government, reduced availability of services for those who can afford more, and a shrinking sense of personal responsibility but I see no reasonable alternative.

Like you, I don't trust big business. I do agree with Adam Smith believing that self-interest drives a prosperous economy but won't go as far as Ayn Rand by calling selfishness a virtue. We have to have reasonable safeguards against powerful interests whether they be business, labor, or government. All entities want to say "mine" and the government is no exception. This is an area many of my progressive friends seem to ignore. Much like a lovestruck suitor believing his bride-to-be is perfect, I fear the honeymoon won't last long if the liberals get their wish and give even more power to the central government. We're all a bunch of dreamers at heart, believing that the changes we think we're instituting will be the ones we actually get. Even if we assume the governments motives are pure, the larger a central power is, the more its concerns have to be generalized and the less it can adapt to individual concerns forcing clumsy one size fits all solution to problems.   

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« Last Edit: Sun, 13 March 2016, 08:23:02 by kurplop »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 13 March 2016, 09:41:47 »
The human race has grown huge (I would say that the population of the planet is an order of magnitude too large already, and continuing to grow exponentially) and the problems arising from increased consumption and dwindling resources across the board have brought the world to a crisis point. The systemic problems we as a race are facing are already light-years beyond the scope of private charities and volunteerism working at community services to even slightly mitigate, much less actually manage.

Unfortunately, the problem-solving process has been commandeered and short-circuited. First, a problem must be identified and agreed upon. You can't even consider a solution without a properly-defined problem. No better example exists than climate change. There are still, to this day, deniers out there, completely duped by the fake science of the fossil-fuel industry (or completely bought off).

It seems to me that there are only 3 agencies with the scope and power to even attempt remedies on this scale: Church, State, and "Big Business" (here defined as multi-million dollar annual corporations and people - everything else is insignificant for this task). "Church" has opted out (although some of the extreme Muslim terror organizations have actually made significant social efforts toward the welfare of their people) all along, although Pope Francis (a professionally-trained chemist before changing careers) is seriously rattling chains. (and every person on the planet needs to read Laudato Si (it's only 80 pages) because it is logical and beautiful and hits every nail directly on the head (except for the "God" part, but that is another conversation) in clear and easy-to-understand language)

So we are left with a choice of whether to *trust* Government or "Big Business" to solve the world's problems. Governments, implicitly charged with promoting the general welfare (explicitly, in the US, under our Constitution) are at the least a "responsible party" while "Big Business" has always and forever been about profit for its owners, first and foremost. So while "Government" can and should struggle to accomplish its tasks, social responsibility has never even been in the game plan for "Big Business"

However much or little *trust* I have in the Government, I can *TRUST* with absolute certainty that "Big Business" will not have the public good at heart.

In the end, if 20 cents of my dollar paid for services (say health care, for example) actually makes it back to me, I would 1000 times rather the other 80 cents go to "government waste" than to "corporate profit"

Clearly you feel differently.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline tullyvivi

  • Posts: 30
Re: Cruz just beat Trump in 2 primaries... is that good?
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 13 March 2016, 12:48:39 »
Went to chicago for trump just to see what will happen, turns out fights everywhere. Wow is all i can say.