Author Topic: Wooting One - First Impressions  (Read 10153 times)

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Offline Findecanor

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Wooting One - First Impressions
« on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 22:53:11 »
When I first saw Adomax Flaretech switches in videos from Computex 2015, and they said that they could detect how far each press was like an analogue way, I knew that was something that I wanted to get.
When Wooting announced that they were going to make keyboards with these switches, I was really excited and when the Kickstarter for the Wooting One started, I jumped on it instantly and managed to join the "Early bird" special for one with linear switches. The other alternative was clicky.
This, despite me not being much of a gamer, really not a fan of linear switches at all (I joined the church of Cherry MX Clear, years ago) and also despite that I often lambaste every keyboard with backlighting and/or "floating keys" designs.
The keyboard was delivered this Monday and I have been using it exclusively since then for typing and programming for a few hours.

I'm using Linux exclusively, and there is no "Wootilty" configuration program for Linux yet, so I have not yet been able to test any of the analogue features such as gamepad, adjustable actuation distance or double-action key presses (multiple key codes at the same key at different actuation distances).
But I have not seen that anyone else has posted a post-release thread about it, so I guess I might just as well be the first.

174227-0

Switch feel
The linear one is almost indistinguishable from Cherry MX Red in feel, in my opinion.
Just a little friction, I can't determine whether it is more or less than modern MX Red. I pressed a loose MX Red and a loose Flaretech together slider-to-slider and they were practically evenly matched in force throughout the press.
The 1.75u Caps Lock key has a little bit more friction if you press it at the tip but that is not noticeable unless you really press it slowly. (Alps is magnitudes worse.)
I notice friction most on right-arrow, that I usually press a little sideways and that is more sound than feel.

The switches are detachable, using an included combined keycaps/switch puller. The mounting hole is notched to allow insertion in only the correct orientation.

174229-1

Four additional clicky switches were included with my basic keyboard. If you would order the "Premium" package you would get a full sets of both switch types.
The clicky switches use an internal secondary slider and a click leaf situated next to the light guide.
The tactile bump is a bit earlier than Cherry MX Blue and it is a less tactile on press. The rebound is more tactile than the press. There are better-feeling clicky switches than this.

Wooting calls the linear switch "Red" and the clicky "Blue", but both have black housings and transparent sliders.
The clicky one has an internal secondary slider and click leaf like genuine clicky Cherry MX -- and the internal slider is orange, which you can glance through the top of the clear primary slider.
BTW. The prototype renders seen as Computex 2015 did instead have differently coloured top housings.

Keycaps and Backlighting
The Flaretech switch has a black housing with a light-pipe of transparent plastic from a surface-mounted LED at the PCB up to a small pinprick at the very top and slightly to the right.
Where as Cherry MX and Gateron use transparent switches for RGB and light-bleed EVERYWHERE, the light pipe means that the Wooting One has very little at medium brightness. Not quite as good as Logitech Orion Spectrum's Romer-G switches, but much less than anything else I have seen with Cherry MX key mount.
However, the light emitter is small and slightly to the right, and the keycaps have supporting interior walls in the top, the light gets divided. The top/right compartment inside the key is brighter than the top/left. When you press a key, the right part brightens and the left part dims.

The font is neutral and not gamery. The arrows are maybe a little thick. Even secondary and tertiary legends are somewhat illuminated. What stands out most is the thick Wooting logo on the OS keys.
I had ordered "Swedish/Finnish" ISO layout, but what was delivered was "Pan-Nordic", which is a combination of Swedish/Finnish, Norwegian and Danish. This means that five keys have multiple symbols - some of which do not apply to what is selected in the OS. Instead of cramming in all combinations side by side, Wooting has each symbol at most once on a key. This looks much better than many other manufacturer's "Nordic" layouts but can be confusing when you need to use them, as the position of a symbol does not always correspond to the modifier you need to press to get it.

What is not so good is the keycap feel. They are thin, translucent and with a layer of paint that feels rubbery to the touch. I got to try out Razer's and Xtrfy's backlit keys in a store yesterday - that are supposedly made in a similar way and those did not feel like this at all.
The keys are not easy to read with backlighting off - even with good light.

Key combos and firmware bugs
There is supposedly a firmware update that I have not been able to install because I am using Linux, so what I mention might have been fixed already.

The three keys above the nav cluster say "Prt Sc", "Pause" and "Mode".
However ... my "Pause" key emits Scroll Lock.

The "Mode" keys switches between keyboard mode and gamepad mode. Fn+Mode locks the nav cluster as media keys.
Fn+Prt Sc and Fn+Pause change the intensity of the backlighting ... but it appears to me that presses do not represent distinct presses that start repeating after a delay but that they ramp up/down with tiny increments depending on how long my presses are - in microseconds. This means that every press does not represents the same amount of change. I could press twice to enable backlighting to a medium intensity but if I press twice to reduce intensity, I would be left with a very low glow instead of them being off. This is a bit annoying.

The default backlight is a static rainbow which can't be changed directly on the keyboard.
Fn+Left, Fn+Down and Fn+Right swap between the three analogue profiles, with red, none and blue backlighting. That's it.
All configuration except backlight intensity requires the Wootility program.
According to other reviews, there are no fancy backlighting effects but that is planned .. for Wootility.

Misc
It is not my most quiet keyboard, partly because of the floating designs and the thin keycaps.
I suppose that O-rings can be installed, but rebound rattle is almost worse than the sound of bottoming out.

Zealencio silencing clips can not be installed. The shape of the top housing is relatively close to Cherry MX but it bugles out near the light guide - because that is where the leaf spring for clicky/tactile switches are.
A part of the bottom housing is also in the way. You would have to cut both in the switch and in the silencing clip to make them work and then the clip would still be backwards- which would limit you to thin keys or OEM profile with additional O-rings ...
If only Adomax/Wooting would make a silenced clone of Cherry MX Clear, that would be perfect. ;)

Apart from the rubbery thin keycaps, the build quality appears to be quite good. (I have not looked inside yet.)
The finish of the metal plate on the top is very similar to the finish of the plastic sides. There are no less than seven rubber feet on the bottom and the flip-out feet are also rubberised.
It comes with a fairly thin braided cable with a micro-USB plug that plugs underneath and it has Wooting-branded velcro strap. The cable gutter is well designed with exits centre, left and right - all facing back and with clips to fasten the cable into.
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The people who pre-ordered the Premium package on Kickstarter got an additional top plate with a brushed finish.
I can't find that in the current specs for the Premium package on Wooting's web site.
However, the standard still come with additional screws just in case you would have lost the old ones when changing plate ...

Edits, corrections:
* Took new images and added them.
* Backlighting split
* Kickstarter Premium package did have an additional plate.
* Fn+{left,down,right} selects analogue profile.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 July 2017, 09:22:16 by Findecanor »

Offline ArchDill

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Re: Wooting One - First Look
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 23:06:28 »
"First Look"  and no pics haha

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 23:12:17 »
Yeah, I don't have any good DSLR or anything, only a cheap point-and-shoot.
I had taken some pictures on Monday noon, but they were too dark and blurry.

Edit: Pictures added. I posted this first quite early in the morning and I wanted to wait for good light so that I could take new ones, but apparently that was not enough. My camera is crapping out, it seems...
I apologise for the low quality of these pics.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 July 2017, 03:00:19 by Findecanor »

Offline Jae-3soteric

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 04:24:20 »
I've also just taken delivery of my Wooting one and have the Wootility and latest firmware version so happy to address any questions on that front



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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 05:13:02 »
I do have a two year-old Windows 10 tablet, and tried to run Wootility to that, but Wootility requires a 64-bit install of Windows, which the tablet has never had.

Offline Auk

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 05:59:17 »
Thank for the detailed impressions  :)

I looked at these briefly and read the Tom's Hardware review.

The idea is intriguing and something that I would like to try, but I always worried about the software and firmware e.g. if I want to go and play and older game like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. would it possible to flawlessly configure the movement modifiers to operate within steps on the analogue keys?

The linear force on Red is not something I'm particularly enamored with either, I much prefer Black. However, imho analogue game controllers are best served with low force (mitigates against RSI, better for weak hands etc.) So probably Adomax/Wooting made the right choice for the first pass at this.

I am a gamer, and have my own ideas about how a gaming keyboard should be. Wooting One isn't it, but I will keep an eye out for more Wooting products and other projects that utilize the analogue switches.


EDIT: low profile Flaretech switch is also in the pipeline, but there is no confirmation that it will be analogue: report[/url
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:31:22 by Auk »

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:30:41 »
The keyboard is supposed to not use a new protocol but to emulate a XBox 360 controller*. This means that any game on the PC that supports XInput gamepads should -- in theory -- work with the keyboard.

They have stated that support for "DirectInput" and later "HID gamepads" protocols are planned. From what I have learned of the USB protocol, a "DirectInput gamepad" and "HID gamepad" should be exactly the same though, so I am not sure what exactly they are referring to.

I just put a spring from a Cherry MX Black into a Flaretech switch and it works fine. :)
Wooting had stated earlier that the switch on the Wooting One would be in-between Cherry MX Red and Black, but maybe they changed their mind because they do call it "Red". I don't have any fancy measurement equipment so I can't tell for sure, but the pressing-two-switches-together test to compare tells me it is like the Cherry MX Red.

*:  of course without Microsoft's authentication shenanigans, so it should work only on Windows PCs and Linux and not the XBox 360 itself.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:36:42 by Findecanor »

Offline Jae-3soteric

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 06:32:55 »
Can confirm on the controller function. Playing PUBG and it comes up with Xbox button logos for parachute etc even though keyboard commands work fine.

I am using the blue clickers at the moment tho so prob not the best for the gaming experience but I am thoroughly impressed. Better caps are a must though.


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Offline Auk

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 07:31:39 »
I know the keyboard mimics a controller, but I was thinking about the games that don't support controllers. So say you want to emulate a digital control with modifiers. Using an FPS type example:
  • control+W = walk slowly forward
  • W = run forward
  • shift+W = sprint forward
Assuming 256 analogue steps, can you bind the analogue key so that it operates:
  • 0-64 = control+W
  • 33-192 = W
  • 193-256 = shift+W
Then what happens if if you need to add another modifier, say:
  • alt = crouch
can you still give the full range of movement, so
  • alt+control+W = creep slowly forward while crouched
  • or rather: alt+0-64 analogue W = creep slowly forward while crouched
  • then: alt+33-192 analogue W = walk while crouched
  • then: alt+193-256 analogue W = run while crouched

That should all work seamlessly, but whether it does is something I haven't seen confirmed.

I just put a spring from a Cherry MX Black into a Flaretech switch and it works fine. :)

That's useful to know, simple and straightforward way to tweak the feel.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 July 2017, 08:52:02 by Auk »

Offline chyros

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 08:03:40 »
Thanks, interesting write-up. They were originally very interested in me doing a review for them as well as a switch teardown, but after a while they said it was delayed and then stopped answering my emails and weren't returning my phone calls, unfortunately.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline Findecanor

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 08:10:23 »
Assuming 256 analogue steps, can you bind the analogue key so that it operates:
  • 0-64 = control+W
  • 33-192 = W
  • 193-256 = shift+W
Yes, there is supposed to be support for two levels. It is called "DKS" ("Double Key Stroke") in Wootility.
There are some vintage types that work that way. Apparently, some vintage systems repeated the key only if you pressed it to the bottom.
Edit: There is a video in the review you posted a link to. ;)
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 July 2017, 08:43:27 by Findecanor »

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 08:46:26 »
I am a gamer, and have my own ideas about how a gaming keyboard should be.
Maybe off topic, but I'm curious. What do you find lacking?

Offline Auk

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 09:59:59 »
Yes...
...video in the review you posted a link to. ;)

Thanks. Juggling too many things at the moment, but I will look at the reviews and demos in more detail.


Maybe off topic, but I'm curious. What do you find lacking?

Without trying to be flippant, I guess the TLDR answer would be everything. Most gaming keyboards are just keyboards with lights and (usually) 1000hz.

The lights I will say, yes they are useful if you can program them, and e.g. light a handful of important controls that you might find then more easily in the dark, but so far Logitech is the only one I like for that, but of course they have the luxury of building a keyswitch with LED centered within the stem so there is no bleed. I haven't tested it myself, but there seems to be quite a lot of Romer-G hate. I don't want a TKL, but if they do release a gamepad maybe I may try it with an open mind.

Latency is the devil for gaming. 250Hz-1000hz polling is the minimum requirement, but from what I've seen on other forums, click latency is actually being increased on some mice - I guess because of all the processing now being used for effects and macros. I don't know, but I would expect the same to be happening on keyboards that have processing for macros and lighting effects. Minimizing latency should be a core feature, and I recently learned that because of the way the USB protocol works, Windows can queue the devices such that you get a 40ms delay anyway.

Beyond the lighting, and polling rates, usually not much is offered. You get some extra keys occasionally (see Roccat for an example) and now we have some experiments with split keyboards being adapted for gamers. It's mostly pretty half-hearted stuff from the big brands, and some of the community projects I think are limiting the inputs in other ways. There are more interesting keypad/gamepads from years ago, but they're all membrane based and I guess few makers are willing to experiment to this extent with mechanical due to cost.

What I would prefer to do is acknowledge that while a typists' keyboard is useful for games, what we want is a gaming input device that is for gaming first and inputting text second, built around the range of finger and thumb movement that is most relevant to playing games. Gaming only would be best served with something more akin to the split boards and gamepads you see from Logitech & Razer, but with features I've not seen implemented anywhere. A gaming keyboard would share some features with those, still be smaller than TKL and potentially something that a lot of keyboard purists in the mech community would find objectionable.

Offline algernon

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 10:21:50 »
What I would prefer to do is acknowledge that while a typists' keyboard is useful for games, what we want is a gaming input device that is for gaming first and inputting text second, built around the range of finger and thumb movement that is most relevant to playing games. Gaming only would be best served with something more akin to the split boards and gamepads you see from Logitech & Razer, but with features I've not seen implemented anywhere. A gaming keyboard would share some features with those, still be smaller than TKL and potentially something that a lot of keyboard purists in the mech community would find objectionable.

You should probably have a look at the Shortcut, which has exactly this aim, and it is being designed by people who do know a thing or two about gaming.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 12:56:32 »
[Logitech has] the luxury of building a keyswitch with LED centered within the stem so there is no bleed. I haven't tested it myself, but there seems to be quite a lot of Romer-G hate.
I think other companies could license the Romer-G switch from Omron but they would have to call it something else. Das Keyboard licenses a variation of it with 0.5 mm more key travel, which they market as "Gamma Zulu".
Kailh also has several switches in its catalogue with the LED in the centre; one which is licensed by SteelSeries as the QS1.
But I suspect that if a company would choose to use those switches, they would have to manufacture their keycaps themselves - which they would not have to do if they had chosen switches with Cherry MX-style cross-mount.

BTW. To me, the Romer-G feels like a Cherry MX Brown with less key travel. Not my cup of tea.

Minimizing latency should be a core feature, and I recently learned that because of the way the USB protocol works, Windows can queue the devices such that you get a 40ms delay anyway.
MSI motherboards sometimes have a special low-latency USB port, of course coloured MSI red. I dunno if it makes any difference in practice though.

There are more interesting keypad/gamepads from years ago, but they're all membrane based and I guess few makers are willing to experiment to this extent with mechanical due to cost.
Well, there is the Razer Orbweaver but it lacks the mousewheel that the Nostromo had. And then the HORI TAC Pro for the PS3 and PS4.
There have also been the Aimpad guys who dabbled in analog-conversions of Cherry MX switches but I can't figure out from their web site what kind of device that they are actually trying to do. (I read somewhere that they are quite annoyed about the Wooting beating them to market ... )

I have done some designing and layout on a keyboard, as well as non-functional prototypes, much inspired by the Nostromo and others in its class, but more intended as an ergonomic keyboard for typing. Maybe I should resume work on that now that I have upgraded my PC so I can run the latest version of KiCad ...

Offline Auk

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 26 July 2017, 14:07:25 »
Aimpad, did they ever release anything? I thought it was a TKL keyboard with analogue WASD, but it seems to be vaporware...

Shortcut is somewhat interesting, but the focus is apparently very narrow, so it may be the perfect tool for some of the esport FPS games, but is it flexible enough for all gamers? I'm not sure, I'd miss the num row and F row keys, and I'm struggling to imagine some combos of modifiers together on that thumbstick, but at least they have tried to do something different and not rely on MX type switches for everything. It's on my bookmarks and upcoming products to watch list anyway.


BTW. To me, the Romer-G feels like a Cherry MX Brown with less key travel.

With less bump than brown? either way, browns don't really do it for me. I prefer Topre/Novatouch for a silent tactile feel, but the Novatouch is also a bit too light. Some people say the Leopold 660c is little heavier, so I'd quite like to try that with Hasu's controller, but I think other things are probably above it on my wishlist.


MSI... ...low-latency USB port...

The partial solution I was reading about was getting an expansion slot breakout bracket for the motherboard USB header. The theory goes that the mouse and/or keyboard is then plugged into a dedicated host so will not be part of the Windows long queue for all USB devices. Maybe MSI saw people doing that and just integrated it into the dedicated port?


...much inspired by the Nostromo and others...

One handed typing and ergonomics do overlap nicely with the gaming pads. I tried to re-imagine some of my ideas being adapted for single hand typing, but I couldn't come up with a good way to make it equally adaptable for left or right hand.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 July 2017, 14:14:38 by Auk »

Offline Thagarr

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 29 July 2017, 11:32:38 »
Thanks for doing this quick review Findecanor, , I was hoping I would not be the first!

I have received my Wooting One also, though I haven’t had a lot of time to spend with it yet, but thought I would share some of my first impressions.



As just a bit of background on me, I learned how to type on an IBM Model M almost 40 years ago and would still be using one if it had back-lighting. I bottom out on every keystroke. I have tried many other keyboards but this is my first tenkeyless, and while I can appreciate the smaller form factor, I find myself constantly reaching for the number pad. A Wooting 2 is already on my wish list! The board comes with Flaretech Reds installed, and I will be swapping those out for the full set of Blues that came with my order just as soon as I finish typing this short review. To me, the Reds feel mushy and give me absolutely no feedback, until I bottom out of course. No surprise there, linear switches are not for me. I will also try out the other top-plate, and maybe have a more detailed look at the inside while I have it apart.



The first thing I noticed was the back-lighting came on the first time I plugged it in to a USB port, even though my computer was powered down, more on that later. The build  quality is excellent, the board feels solid to type on and does not move around on the desk unless I tell it to. A very good overall design. The boards back-lighting looks good at all brightness levels, and the legends are easily readable. They keycaps are not the best, but they are adequate for me so far. There is a lot of light bleed from under the keycaps at the highest brightness setting, but I usually keep mine under 50% so it is not an issue for me.

I have a MSI GT-72 Dominator laptop running Windows 10 64 bit. The Wootility loaded up without any issues, and I am able to configure my board easily. The Wootility does need a bit of polish, but overall the program is easy to use and it’s easy to find what you are looking for. I have not had a chance to do any gaming, or set up any profiles so I can’t really comment on that part of the experience with this board yet. Overall, so far I am very pleased with this keyboard and I am really glad to help support this kind of development. There are a couple of issues I would like to bring up though.

Most of the time I put my laptop to sleep instead of turning it off. I have it hooked up to an external monitor, and this allows me to wake it up with just a keypress, instead of having to open the lid every time. With the Wooting One plugged in however, my laptop does not respond to a keypress, and I have to open the lid to turn it on. The keyboard it’s self will light up on a keypress, and I can change modes manually on the keyboard, but I have to turn my laptop on manually.

When I put my laptop to sleep, the keyboard does not power down and the lights stay lit. They will dim and flash a couple of times as the laptop goes through it’s shutdown process, but once the computer is off, the board comes back on lit at the brightness I have it programmed for. When I do a full shutdown, the same thing happens and the board stays lit until I unplug it. These issues have not been present with any other keyboard I have tried on this laptop. I will take a look at my BIOS and see if there is a setting in there that might be affecting something and update this review when I get the chance.

Offline Auk

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 29 July 2017, 12:12:01 »
...the other top-plate...

Thanks for the comments :)

Other than color, is there a difference between top plates?

...BIOS...

It might be under ErP power settings, but there should be something there. USB power while shutdown is a bane for external USB disks also.

Offline Thagarr

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Re: Wooting One - First Impressions
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 30 July 2017, 10:58:39 »
Auk, thanks for your suggestion, I figured it would have something to do with the sleep power states as well. Unfortunately the MSI BIOS in this laptop is not very configurable at all. The only setting it offers for ErP is Enable/Disable the supercharger in S3/S4/S5 mode. The only other USB options are for legacy support, USB 3 Enable/Disable and response timings. I disabled the supercharger and now it does wake the laptop from sleep on a keypress!

The keyboard still does not power off, but now it is at least in low power mode and the LED’s are at about 10% brightness level while the laptop is sleeping. It does shut off completely when I actually shut the laptop down. It is certainly not ideal to have the board powered and the LED’s lit all the time, but I can live with just turning the lights off in the Wootility for now. The “wake on keypress” issue was much more annoying to me. I plan on building a new Threadripper based system at some point soon and getting off this laptop.

I did get the Blue switches swapped in, and I am much happier typing on those, although they are still not near heavy enough for me. Replacing the switches took about an hour, and being able to do that without a bit of solder is a much more enjoyable experience!

As for the color of the top-plates, both are actually black, the one that is originally shipped with the keyboard is a matte finish, the second one I received with the premium package has a brushed aluminum look. I didn’t have enough time to open up the board and do a thorough forensic exam on it, so I decided just to stay with the original top-plate for now.