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Author Topic: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%  (Read 44673 times)

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Offline bueller

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 08 June 2013, 23:24:46 »
OMG this keyboard with the left hand function row will be my holy grail. You sir are a god amongst men.
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Quote from: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 20 January 2015, 19:52:41
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline litster

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #101 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:09:32 »
Quote from: bueller on Sat, 08 June 2013, 23:24:46
OMG this keyboard with the left hand function row will be my holy grail. You sir are a god amongst men.

This?
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Offline bueller

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #102 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 00:32:08 »
<3 KMAC Mini

Just wish it had 1.25 mods on the left of the arrow keys to kill the dead space. That and a Dolch set would see me happy as a pig in #@$.
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Quote from: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 20 January 2015, 19:52:41
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline bueller

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 10:39:28 »
After careful consideration today this is my dream 75% layout. This should fit in with the layout of the PCB yeah?

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Quote from: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 20 January 2015, 19:52:41
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #104 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 12:06:40 »
Quote from: bueller on Sun, 09 June 2013, 10:39:28
After careful consideration today this is my dream 75% layout. This should fit in with the layout of the PCB yeah?

Show Image


1.5 - 1 - 1.5 - 6.25 - 1.25 - 1.5 - 1 - 1 - 1

I think so, but I am not sure.  It wasn't one of my test cases.  I'll have to verify that bottom row.  For sure the rest of the layout is supported.  Also, I am sure you can get that key order on the bottom row; it is the key sizes that might be an issue.

I'll let you know.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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Offline bueller

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #105 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 12:16:41 »
Cheers, happy to swap the sizes of the right hand CTRL and FN if that helps.

EDIT: Couldn't sleep last night so I knocked up some CAD drawings of the plate for my proposed layout.



« Last Edit: Sun, 09 June 2013, 20:15:36 by bueller »
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Quote from: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 20 January 2015, 19:52:41
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline amzee

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 20:10:54 »
Has anything happened to this since the last update?
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 25 June 2013, 20:46:08 »
Quote from: amzee on Tue, 25 June 2013, 20:10:54
Has anything happened to this since the last update?

Yes.  The alpha version is done except for the fiddly bits around the ISO-ANSI Enter key area.  Also I received both my Phantom PCB and an MX Mini PCB, so I am looking at those for ideas.  After alpha comes the beta version with full LED support, so I have about 300 LEDs and some LED circuit components sitting in Mouser boxes in my office to breadboard.

But as well as that, Phantom is out and GH60 is coming, so I don't want to step on those projects!

 - Ron I samwisekoi
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 June 2013, 09:49:15 by samwisekoi »
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Offline rDuck

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #108 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 09:16:11 »
But the world needs an amazing 75% board! and by the world i mean me :P
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #109 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 09:42:17 »
Here you go.  I much prefer these traces.

26568-0
GH75 Alpha v529H by samwisekoi

Real Soon Now...

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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Offline gimpster

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #110 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 14:53:42 »
That's an interesting choice for the Teensy...mostly because it's going to be completely impossible to solder...either you do the Teensy first and you can't solder the switches or you solder the switches first and you can't solder the Teensy. Can we change the design to a smaller form factor chip that could be fit into the area under the space bar? Preferably on the top of the PCB to avoid interference issues with the case on the bottom of the PCB?
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #111 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 15:47:18 »
The socketed daughterboard is not shown in this view.  Also, please note the complete lack of a blank space between the number row and the function key row.

No SMD on this version, which is just the Alpha.  Beta with LED support, and PROD beyond that?  Could be.

Diodes, resistors, transistors and the connectors go on the backside first (solder on top side.)  Then the keyswitches are soldered onto the front in whichever layout is chosen. This way none of the passives or other non-switch components have to be moved if the layout is changed.  And like the liberated Filco, a socketed daughterboard doesn't preclude use of a better controller.

But as I said, this is just Alpha, which by definition means it isn't feature-complete.

Does that answer your question for now?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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Offline gimpster

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #112 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 23:01:29 »
I think I was confusing when I said "top" and "bottom" of the PCB, sorry about that. I meant the top side of the PCB, like the side the switches are mounted to, not the top of the PCB, like near the function row. :) The way the MX Mini mounts the SMD controller is what I had in mind when doing my poor job of describing it.

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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #113 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 07:44:26 »
Quote from: gimpster on Thu, 27 June 2013, 23:01:29
I think I was confusing when I said "top" and "bottom" of the PCB, sorry about that. I meant the top side of the PCB, like the side the switches are mounted to, not the top of the PCB, like near the function row. :) The way the MX Mini mounts the SMD controller is what I had in mind when doing my poor job of describing it.

Show Image


Sorry, I was replying in a hurry.  I understood your suggestion, and have an MX Mini PCB for reference.  In that form factor the spacebar is pretty much the only place to mount an SMD controller.  And the top side of the PCB could work, but I have not thought about that because SMD isn't in this version at all.

The reason I mentioned the top row was because that is where the Phantom mounts the Teensy, and properly so to reduce the interference of the larger form factor controller.  Filco mounts it above the arrow cluster, but the Phantom has switches there.  And the GH75 doesn't even have a "there" there.

So I wanted to put the controller as close to the top row as possible to provide the maximum amount of room when the keyboard is at a normal angle.  But because of the slicing that the PCB supports, I had to keep it one row away from anywhere someone might cut.  And if you look at the latest version, there are now cut lines on three edges of the PCB!  That placed the controller under the QWERTY row, just to the right of center so the USB cable can exit either top center or top left.

So that is that.  FWIW, I think the MX Mini is a beautiful PCB.  But it is missing many features the GH75 has or will have, all of which take up real estate.  Holes for PCB-mount switches, holes for PCB-mount stabilizers, and extra mounts for different layout options are three that leap to mind, and all of them make the bottom row very crowded.  Also, the top-mounted passives on the MX Mini make the plate have a gap under CV that looks ugly to me, must weaken the mounting for those two switches and probably the space bar switch as well.

Anyhow, the short answer remains "not for Alpha", but hopefully the long version above gives you a better explanation.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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Offline Poom

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #114 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 07:50:05 »
would be nice if there is bluetooth also. but as it is, im still in for one!
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Offline damorgue

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #115 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 07:52:24 »
Quote from: gimpster on Thu, 27 June 2013, 14:53:42
That's an interesting choice for the Teensy...mostly because it's going to be completely impossible to solder...either you do the Teensy first and you can't solder the switches or you solder the switches first and you can't solder the Teensy.

You just can't solder the legs of the teensy to the teensy the first thing you do. You solder the legs of the teensy to the back of the pcb, then the switches on the front, and then the teensy to the legs which you soldered first. Or did I miss something?
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Offline samwisekoi

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #116 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 08:01:16 »
Quote from: damorgue on Fri, 28 June 2013, 07:52:24
Quote from: gimpster on Thu, 27 June 2013, 14:53:42
That's an interesting choice for the Teensy...mostly because it's going to be completely impossible to solder...either you do the Teensy first and you can't solder the switches or you solder the switches first and you can't solder the Teensy.

You just can't solder the legs of the teensy to the teensy the first thing you do. You solder the legs of the teensy to the back of the pcb, then the switches on the front, and then the teensy to the legs which you soldered first. Or did I miss something?

That would work as well.  Test the trapped switch(es) first!

I'm going for socket mounting myself.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
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Offline gimpster

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #117 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 12:39:14 »
Quote from: samwisekoi on Fri, 28 June 2013, 07:44:26
Sorry, I was replying in a hurry.  I understood your suggestion, and have an MX Mini PCB for reference.  In that form factor the spacebar is pretty much the only place to mount an SMD controller.  And the top side of the PCB could work, but I have not thought about that because SMD isn't in this version at all.

The reason I mentioned the top row was because that is where the Phantom mounts the Teensy, and properly so to reduce the interference of the larger form factor controller.  Filco mounts it above the arrow cluster, but the Phantom has switches there.  And the GH75 doesn't even have a "there" there.

So I wanted to put the controller as close to the top row as possible to provide the maximum amount of room when the keyboard is at a normal angle.  But because of the slicing that the PCB supports, I had to keep it one row away from anywhere someone might cut.  And if you look at the latest version, there are now cut lines on three edges of the PCB!  That placed the controller under the QWERTY row, just to the right of center so the USB cable can exit either top center or top left.

So that is that.  FWIW, I think the MX Mini is a beautiful PCB.  But it is missing many features the GH75 has or will have, all of which take up real estate.  Holes for PCB-mount switches, holes for PCB-mount stabilizers, and extra mounts for different layout options are three that leap to mind, and all of them make the bottom row very crowded.  Also, the top-mounted passives on the MX Mini make the plate have a gap under CV that looks ugly to me, must weaken the mounting for those two switches and probably the space bar switch as well.

Anyhow, the short answer remains "not for Alpha", but hopefully the long version above gives you a better explanation.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

The long explanation does help, thank you. Also, I agree with you about missing features on the MX Mini. I love my Mini but there are key features missing that keep it from being "perfect", that's why I'm so interested in your project. ;) Honestly, I'll probably end up buying several kits when this is ready for production, because I honestly can't see myself wanting any other layout. Only thing better would be a Topre silenced model in a 75% layout like this. :)
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Offline Arcturus

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #118 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:41:37 »
I still can't get over how phenomenal this PCB is looking. I can see myself splashing out on several if you manage to get to the production stage.

I can almost hear the other ISO users weeping for joy!
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Offline tjweir

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #119 on: Mon, 22 July 2013, 09:55:10 »
I just bought an MX-MINI and I see the way of the 75%!

I'll be happy to trade the 2 GH60s I have coming for GH75s. 

Consider me interested!
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Offline JPG

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #120 on: Fri, 26 July 2013, 00:25:03 »
Any update on the planning for this? I just received my vintage switches and I can't wait to get something that badass to put them on!  :rolleyes:

I know it won't be soon, but any idea when you would "like" to make it happen?
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Offline bueller

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #121 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 06:16:15 »
Dead keen on this too! I've just about finished my GH65 with lowpoly wiring and the thought of doing it all without a PCB again seems like too much hard work.
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Quote from: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 20 January 2015, 19:52:41
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline Marabello

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #122 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 08:53:24 »
I'll fully support this if you manage to do a 75% keyboard with ISO layout, which for some reason doesn't already exist.
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Offline bueller

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #123 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 09:00:08 »
Anything I can help with to move this forward? More than happy to chip in for prototyping costs if I get a unit to play with  :thumb:
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Quote from: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 20 January 2015, 19:52:41
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline Moosecraft

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #124 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 09:02:31 »
The bottom row I would really want for this is

1,5 - 1.5 - 7 - 1.5 - 1.5 - 1 - 1 - 1
Also without any F-keys.
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Offline bueller

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #125 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 09:38:46 »
Quote from: Moosecraft on Sun, 01 September 2013, 09:02:31
The bottom row I would really want for this is

1,5 - 1.5 - 7 - 1.5 - 1.5 - 1 - 1 - 1
Also without any F-keys.

That's what I'm going to use as well, probably going to keep the left hand function row though.
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Quote from: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 20 January 2015, 19:52:41
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline Fred

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #126 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 12:36:46 »
My body is still ready for this.
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Offline AndyCapets

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #127 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 12:56:04 »
Would love to have that GH75, and will the right functions keys be progammable ? That would be great!
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Offline MOZ

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #128 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 12:15:47 »
Interested in this.
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Offline divito

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #129 on: Thu, 19 September 2013, 21:01:28 »
Definitely interested in this. 75% is pretty much exactly what I want.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #130 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 14:01:31 »
Any updates sam?
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Offline genkidama

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #131 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 05:14:05 »
I'm also interested in this as a 75% keyboard should be optimal for transport.
Any updates so far?
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Offline danielucf

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #132 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 11:54:51 »
It would be pretty awesome if we could put a GH75 into an LZ-GH MX
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Offline mroverkill

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #133 on: Sun, 20 October 2013, 21:00:38 »
I registered just to say that I'm almost definitely in (As long as I don't go broke).

The amount of work you're doing on this PCB is phenomenal Samwise, keep it up.
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Offline ellis2323

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #134 on: Wed, 30 October 2013, 17:00:04 »
I was studying the GH60 but the GH75 looks so great.

Consider me interested too!

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Offline exitface

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #135 on: Sat, 02 November 2013, 16:59:20 »
Also interested in this. As a programmer the GH60 would just be a PITA for me, this on the other hand, looks perfect!
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Offline reggalicious

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #136 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:06:17 »
Also interested.  Love the layout!
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Offline JPG

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #137 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:19:39 »
Just for those interested in the 75%, since this thread is quite dead anyway, there is a GB for a 75% pcb and case by sprit right now. So if you are really interested in a 75%, that's probably the best occasion you will have to get one in the near future.
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Offline reggalicious

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #138 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:44:52 »
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:19:39
Just for those interested in the 75%, since this thread is quite dead anyway, there is a GB for a 75% pcb and case by sprit right now. So if you are really interested in a 75%, that's probably the best occasion you will have to get one in the near future.

Link?
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Offline rDuck

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #139 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:00:25 »
Would be nice with an update from samwise, or i might jumo on that
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Offline regack

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #140 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:09:28 »
Quote from: reggalicious on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:44:52
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:19:39
Just for those interested in the 75%, since this thread is quite dead anyway, there is a GB for a 75% pcb and case by sprit right now. So if you are really interested in a 75%, that's probably the best occasion you will have to get one in the near future.

Link?


Probably this one : http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49902.0



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Offline JPG

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #141 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:10:19 »
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Offline swill

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #142 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:34:19 »
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:10:19
This one:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50579.0

Its actually this one: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50580.0

You linked the case thread.  Both are relevant though.  If you buy a PCB you probably want a case...
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Offline JPG

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Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #143 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:38:55 »
Quote from: swill on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:34:19
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:10:19
This one:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50579.0

Its actually this one: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50580.0

You linked the case thread.  Both are relevant though.  If you buy a PCB you probably want a case...

^^ my bad, half at least.
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IBM F122, IBM XT F X2, IBM AT F (all Soarer converted), Filco Camo TKL Browns

Offline reggalicious

  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #144 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:54:50 »
Quote from: regack on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:09:28
Quote from: reggalicious on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:44:52
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:19:39
Just for those interested in the 75%, since this thread is quite dead anyway, there is a GB for a 75% pcb and case by sprit right now. So if you are really interested in a 75%, that's probably the best occasion you will have to get one in the near future.

Link?


Probably this one : http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49902.0

Thanks for this.  I'm still a bit confused as to what I'll need for a full keyboard.  This is the first time I've considered doing a custom board, buying the individual pieces.  I'm not sure if there is a wiki somewhere that mentions everything.

Do i have to solder the switches on the PCB?
Are the switches sold separately?

Sorry for the rookie questions, any help is much appreciated.
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Offline JPG

  • Posts: 1124
  • Location: Canada (Beloeil, near Montreal)
  • Model F is my new passion!
Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #145 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 15:08:21 »
Quote from: reggalicious on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:54:50
Quote from: regack on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:09:28
Quote from: reggalicious on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:44:52
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:19:39
Just for those interested in the 75%, since this thread is quite dead anyway, there is a GB for a 75% pcb and case by sprit right now. So if you are really interested in a 75%, that's probably the best occasion you will have to get one in the near future.

Link?


Probably this one : http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49902.0

Thanks for this.  I'm still a bit confused as to what I'll need for a full keyboard.  This is the first time I've considered doing a custom board, buying the individual pieces.  I'm not sure if there is a wiki somewhere that mentions everything.

Do i have to solder the switches on the PCB?
Are the switches sold separately?

Sorry for the rookie questions, any help is much appreciated.

You can find all this information on the forum, but maybe not at the same place. Here's a list of what you will need in order to get a fully functional keyboard if you get this pcb:

- Case
- Switches (need to buy them elsewhere)
- plate if you use plate mounted switches
- stabilizers
- soldering tools to solder the switches
- usb cable
- keycaps
- optionaly leds

While not that hard from what I heard (it's gonna be my first one), getting all of this will not be cheap and will take some time to gather/build. But looks to be a super nice project and be able to get a quite unique a very advanced keyboard. I am telling you all of this out of my mind, may forget some things and if you search the forum you will find a lot of info, but it should give you a good idea.
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IBM F122, IBM XT F X2, IBM AT F (all Soarer converted), Filco Camo TKL Browns

Offline reggalicious

  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #146 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 15:33:17 »
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 15:08:21
Quote from: reggalicious on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:54:50
Quote from: regack on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:09:28
Quote from: reggalicious on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:44:52
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:19:39
Just for those interested in the 75%, since this thread is quite dead anyway, there is a GB for a 75% pcb and case by sprit right now. So if you are really interested in a 75%, that's probably the best occasion you will have to get one in the near future.

Link?


Probably this one : http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49902.0

Thanks for this.  I'm still a bit confused as to what I'll need for a full keyboard.  This is the first time I've considered doing a custom board, buying the individual pieces.  I'm not sure if there is a wiki somewhere that mentions everything.

Do i have to solder the switches on the PCB?
Are the switches sold separately?

Sorry for the rookie questions, any help is much appreciated.

You can find all this information on the forum, but maybe not at the same place. Here's a list of what you will need in order to get a fully functional keyboard if you get this pcb:

- Case
- Switches (need to buy them elsewhere)
- plate if you use plate mounted switches
- stabilizers
- soldering tools to solder the switches
- usb cable
- keycaps
- optionaly leds

While not that hard from what I heard (it's gonna be my first one), getting all of this will not be cheap and will take some time to gather/build. But looks to be a super nice project and be able to get a quite unique a very advanced keyboard. I am telling you all of this out of my mind, may forget some things and if you search the forum you will find a lot of info, but it should give you a good idea.

Thanks for this.  I had no idea I was missing so much... May have to hold off until the wallet beefs up a bit more.  Good luck with your build!
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Offline mroverkill

  • Posts: 9
Re: GH75 Extending the GH60 to 65% and 75%
« Reply #147 on: Tue, 12 November 2013, 18:43:12 »
Samwise, I'd just like to say that I'm still very keen to purchase one of your boards. I really like the idea of the dual removable f-key blocks while maintaining a pretty compact layout. The board Sprit had a group buy on didn't appeal to me on the grounds of not having those side f-keys.

I hope you still go through with this.
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