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Author Topic: White ALPS or Blue Cherries  (Read 3682 times)

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Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 13:34:50 »
Hello All - been lurking here for a few days in the hope of educating myself somewhat - but I think I've managed to confuse myself instead!

I've been looking for a new board for the last few months since I made the almighty mistake of choosing form-over-function by buying one of the new-ish apple boards. A few weeks later, after digging around in the attic looking for something completely unrelated I came across an old Dell board from years ago and hooked it up to my computer.

I'm sure you all know what comes next...

It would seem that I'm hooked again. Clicky is for me and I'm not going back

So. Now I think I know what I'm looking for. A spot of googling originally had me considering the Das and the M-10, as those blue cherries sound pretty tasty.

A few more carefully chosen keywords later and some funny geeky forum has me reading about HHKB pro 2, The old IBM Model Ms (I never realised they did a space saver in buckling springs!) and such exotic fare as Topre capacitance switches and...

My god that's it! Filco Tenless you say? Let me find my nearest distribut... oh. I see... :rolleyes:

So I can see this is not going to be either:

a) Cheap
b) Easy
c) Quick

I've just about convinced myself to spend the cash, but whatever I get has to be right pretty much first time. I may choose to buy a selection of these in future, but it's the first I think has to prove it's worth.

So my question is (and didn't he take forever getting there...:)) do you think Blue Cherries are the choice for me, or the white ALPS(ish). I had pretty much settled on the idea of the ALPS (and had just opened a new tab for BeNippon) when I came back to bigpook's review and saw the two comments on the board registering keypresses with only light touches - something I never experienced before when using old boards.

I spend a fair bit of time with my hands on the keyboard so this concerns me. It was also suggested by sashomasho that the cherry blues might be a better choice for click fans as the actuation of the key is more tightly linked to the audible feedback. Having never used cherry blues before I'm wary of taking a risk on them, especially as the board works out more expensive than the white alps to get it delivered.

Or should I turn my back on these tempting bits of modern eye candy and just wait my turn on ebay for that Model M Space Saver I'm inevitably going to buy anyway!

Speaking of which I don't suppose... ;)
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Offline iMav

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 14:09:52 »
Personally, I REALLY like the blue Cherrys.  And there is a strong base of Das fans out there that seem to like them as well.  There are several folks here that like white Alps and I can't argue...they are nice as well.

But if you were spending my money, it would be the blue Cherrys.
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Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 14:26:12 »
Thanks iMav - appreciate the advice!

In that case, I reckon I'll have to track down a blue cherry Cherry board somewhere in the UK and smack a few keys around before I part with my hard earned. Which will be a job in itself I imagine...
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Offline bhtooefr

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 14:49:29 »
Ione does sell their products in Europe, so it won't be THAT hard - I'd contact their European headquarters, to find where to buy their stuff in the UK: http://www.ione-europe.com/?option=com_contact&catid=12&Itemid=3
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Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 15:08:22 »
Quote
...I'm inevitably going to buy anyway!

I see a keyboard collection in your future. :)
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Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 15:36:28 »
I think you might have a point ;)

When I first started looking I thought this would be a simple, logical decision, made rationally and quickly.

How wrong I was. After using the Dell again I don't know why I ever packed it away. Got distracted by shiny things i suppose.

I know I want a Tenless, but the Topre stuff sounds intriguing too, and the buckling springs literally speak for themselves.

And why can't unicomp make something that doesn't look like crap? I mean the design hasn't changed for years? I'm sure they don't employ, like, a real designer or anything, but hasn't one of the factory guys ever just got bored one day and thought, 'There is more to life than injection moulding!'?
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Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 15:40:19 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;17144
Ione does sell their products in Europe, so it won't be THAT hard...


True enough, and much as I'd like to own one of their boards, I'm in the market for a Filco Tenless right now - I love the form factor, and the comments from all those here that own them seem universally positive. So I'm hoping I can road-test a blue cherry board, as I'm pretty sure I know what I'm in for with the ALPS.
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Offline sashomasho

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 16:12:43 »
Quote from: Repoman;17149
I think you might have a point ;)

When I first started looking I thought this would be a simple, logical decision, made rationally and quickly.


It's not so hard if you accept the fact that you can't go wrong with either of the clicky key switches. Today I took my  tenkeyless with ALPS to my work replacing my precious macally mk96, this was my first comparison between them. Knowing that the switches are same I was quite surprised by the mk96, it has loosen up with the time and the keys are really really pleasant to type on, I can't wait my tenkeyless filco to get there (I haven't used my mk96 that much, one or two days in a week in the past 3 months). At home I tried my scorpius with blue cherries and all I can say that it's extremely soft, my girlfriend's favorite keyboard, she uses is despite the fact that "*", "9", "6", "3" and "." keys from the numpad stopped working a week ago. The alps are closer to IBM buckling spring, although this may be subjective. I spend most of my time on hhkb pro, white alps and the brown cherries, and I think I need all of them. The blue cherries are no longer mine so I suppose one day I'll end buying one of those clicky filcos, but for now I have almost everything I want. Good luck deciding what will be the best key switch for you :)
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Offline andb

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 16:35:20 »
Quote from: sashomasho;17154
...she uses is despite the fact that "*", "9", "6", "3" and "." keys from the numpad stopped working a week ago.

I think a few people here have asked cherry for replacement switches and have received a few free of charge. If you cant get replacements through them, let me know via PM, I think I can find 5 working blacks from a donor board.

I haven't ever taken apart the cherry switches, but I'd assume its like the alps that the main failure point is the lower switch and you these lowers are the same for all stem colors. So in Alps land, I have a ton of greens that I've used to replace the bottoms of whites and yellows, I expect its much the same with the Cherry design.

I've used Alps whites a bit, scavenged off of an ond Nan Tan board and put onto a Zenith ZKB-2 (which is a great, solid keyboard btw) and don't really like them. Maybe they are worn and the action is bad, but the click is too low so I'm bottoming out and the click and the activation seem at slightly different points on some keys. Based on this single experience with Alps clicky switches I can say I don't really like them and prefer their linears. I'm happy to use a clicky board, I''ve used Ms most my life. Id like to try a good condition Northgate or filco alps white to confirm my opinion, since I can't be sure that mine is really representative of the switch type.
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Offline lam47

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 16:38:46 »
The thing about the white alps is that the click sound has nothing to do with the switch actuation. Its a separate bent metal spring that can be removed that makes the click.
In a cherry the click is the switch actuating and in a BS the snap is at the exact time of the hammer hitting the membrane.
This could be why they don't appeal to you so much.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 16:50:26 »
You've hit the nail on the head there lam. I've used white ALPS in the past, and admittedly have never had any real trouble, but when bigppook and sashomasho mentioned key actuations with light keytouches registering without any feedback I found that a bit concerning.

shaso - when you say light touch, how light do you mean? Bearing in mind it's all subjective!
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Offline bigpook

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 17:34:47 »
Hmm. Yes, there are key actuations with light touches. I can duplicate it at will, but have to work at it to make it happen. Its not like my fingers resting on the keys will set it off. YMMV of course. I am still waffling on getting the filco tenless with blue cherries but will probably get one in the end. Whats holding me off right now is that I am really liking the white mx switches. They are the closest to BS keys that I have yet to try. But the blue cherries are very nice too, as are the browns, as is the topre....You can see where I am going with this. : ) The simple answer is to get both : )
If I had to choose one, I would go with the white mx.
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HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 05 January 2009, 17:41:39 »
Thanks - you have helped convince me ;)

From the initial posting I worried the keys fired at the slightest touch. If you can squish them a good bit pre-click I can live with that!

Which doesn't mean I won't get the blues next time. Bada-boom-tish!

...damn joke doesn't work with Topres...
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Offline sashomasho

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 08:40:27 »
Quote from: andb;17157
I think a few people here have asked cherry for replacement switches and have received a few free of charge. If you cant get replacements through them, let me know via PM, I think I can find 5 working blacks from a donor board.


 Thanks, but I don't think the problem is in the switches themselves, i suppose they are connected by same soldering path which has failed (let's not forget - we are talking about scorpius pcb here), so I will just need to find which one it is and fix it, at least I hope for something like that.
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Offline lam47

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 11:44:58 »
It would be strange for a trace to go without the board suffering some kind of physical trauma? If you need help just get a pic of the base of the PCB.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline sashomasho

  • Posts: 95
White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 16:44:23 »
Quote from: lam47;17218
It would be strange for a trace to go without the board suffering some kind of physical trauma? If you need help just get a pic of the base of the PCB.


There was no physical abuse afaik, but you can never trust a woman :)  I'm the only engineer without a multimeter (mine died a month ago) so for now i'm suffering from criticism for being lazy and refusing to repair HER keyboard :) I'll inspect it in the near future and if there is a problem I'll seek for your help guys...
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Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 16:58:12 »
Any chance there has been some liquid spilled on it lately?
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Offline sashomasho

  • Posts: 95
White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 17:06:19 »
Quote from: Repoman;17258
Any chance there has been some liquid spilled on it lately?


I don't think so, I know one should be extremely careful with their keyboards, and I  have passed this knowledge to my precious :)

Have you decided what would you get?
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Offline Repoman

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 17:36:33 »
Yep - gonna wait for the Filco with Topre switches ;)

...in all honesty I think I'm going for the white ALPS version. I feel as if I know how they'll feel in the Filco form-factor and - alliteration aside - the blue cherries are a complete unknown to me. Wee bit too much of a risk for my first $$board$$
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Offline sandy55

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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 21:43:01 »
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Offline bhtooefr

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  • this switch can tick sound of music
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White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 06 January 2009, 22:13:46 »
Not much cheaper than an M10 - for comparison, a new M10 would be $50.
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Offline lam47

  • Posts: 688
White ALPS or Blue Cherries
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 07 January 2009, 06:20:25 »
Quote from: sandy55;17273
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-AT-IONE-KEYBOARD-BLUE-CHERRY-SLIDERS-TRACKBALL_W0QQitemZ290286241137QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item290286241137&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1234|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

Is it pricey, or affordable?  
though it has win keys and ps/2 plug, blues on the board seems to be real MXs.


Those caps would fit my Qtronix perfectly :)
Too expensive to ship to the uk though.
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Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3
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