Author Topic: Sound Card?  (Read 8126 times)

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Offline BlueRain

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Sound Card?
« on: Thu, 30 December 2010, 17:20:50 »
All these discussion about headphones... just curious what do people use for sound card? I'm using the onboard Realtek audio and it has an optical output (TOSLINK) along with line out/mic in front panel and 5.1 back panel. I don't know if the onboard sound is good enough to even warrant a good set of headphones.
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 December 2010, 18:51:25 by BlueRain »

Offline BlueRain

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Soundcard?
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 30 December 2010, 20:23:16 »
bump? guess no one uses a sound card nowadays.

Offline Crypt

  • Posts: 65
Soundcard?
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 30 December 2010, 22:47:38 »
I just ordered an X-Fi prelude to replace my X-Fi plat w/ front panel (FS if you're interested.)

If I were primarily a headphones listener, I'd get nice headphones regardless.  They're more comfortable if nothing else, and if you're still unhappy, you can get a sound card afterwards.  X-Fi Xtreme Musics are pretty cheap on eBay (a fraction of the headphone cost.)  If you get *really* nice headphones, then maybe you'd want a sound card w/ headphone amp or a discrete amp, anyway.

Offline Arc'xer

  • Posts: 482
Soundcard?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 03:07:08 »
Quote from: BlueRain;270907
bump? guess no one uses a sound card nowadays.


I'm not sure were this notion of "there is no point to sound cards" came from. People are spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on their rig and are still using onboard audio. Onboard audio has changed it's very respectable but your dealing with a few chips and transistors here and there on the motherboard, instead of a dedicated PCB with much more hardware processing.

It's very strange how people completely ignore audio since it's an important factor of the game not just ambiance as in say enjoyment of the game(and or single player) itself both speakers and headphones but providing directionality and advantages, hell there's some who's audio equipment is good enough to in multiplayer kill just by sound alone or prepare for any conflict with sound. Stories of people being banned from servers because of the use of sound, thinking they were using an aimbot or a hack.  

Hell there's people spending money on good headphones and speakers still using onboard audio or extracting the source to an external equipment from onboard. The sheer fact is a sound card provides you with a better source of audio.

A good example is the xonar st/stx/xense although the ST(if you have PCI bus or PCIe to PCI) ranks as the best, all three cards are built out of components that would probably fit the bill for entry level external amplifier/DAC equipment, from the reviews done on it

People complain about why do games sound so bad or why do they have such ****ty sound effects. Well when no one gives a **** about the sound quality cause most people view audio equipment as a waste of money, well there you go. And in reality most people do view audio equipment as a waste even so far as to take a completely staunch denial on it.

But then there is the other camp who got burned by creative and I think going further back since many of the older computer generation sets the tone for the future, the aureal 3D(wavetracing) buy out by creative. There's still a big crowd who got burned by sound card companies and also the API changes from XP to vista, yeah there's openAL but to some it's more of "Oh look more software to download, more bloatware". Hell even some downgrading back to XP just for better audio support with the whole decoupling the windows sound properties from creative properties to get better surround sound.

Either way your still getting audio enhancement whichever route you take internal/external/both.
« Last Edit: Fri, 31 December 2010, 03:09:23 by Arc'xer »

Offline BlueRain

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Soundcard?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 03:16:15 »
@Arc'xer so any particular recommendations? Or you're slipping in the Xonars in the middle of your message?

Offline Arc'xer

  • Posts: 482
Soundcard?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 03:40:04 »
Quote from: BlueRain;271055
@Arc'xer so any particular recommendations? Or you're slipping in the Xonars in the middle of your message?


A lot of people and a lot of reviews do recommend the xonar line the ST being the best of the 3 due to lower jitter and the sound it produces is different than the STX, even some returning their STX and exchanging it for the ST albeit the ST does have a PCI connector and unfortunately PCI seems to be going out for some I think they would need a PCIe to PCI adapter.

I went with the x-fi forte, seems like they don't make the forte anymore or they made such a small run it's always out of stock.

Honestly if I had to go back and buy a sound card I would buy the Xonar. It's not that the forte is a bad sound card but it just doesn't wow me anymore and to be honest at times it was a pain to install or reinstall. Hell I even uninstalled it and used onboard because I kept getting noise from the GPU. mouse scrolling and window minimizing and maximizing(and still do guess the lack of shielding was shortsighted) seems like a common problem for it picking up noise. Although my forte doesn't seem to be as bad as others who've had worse problems(seems like a well-built version) it does pick up noise, when near the GPU but away it's dead silent, though as strange as this sounds I kinda feel a sort of electrical background field but that could just the isolation factor of my own self.

It's nice and all but it's kinda disappointing. I should have spent the extra money on the ST. Maybe dolby is better for gaming than considered by some(some have said dolby is not on par with CMSS). Using CMSS-3D sure it's nice and all but never really like "WHOA"(at first yes but then I noticed the issues). And weird things would happen when I'd be gaming like losing track of sounds even in front of me(they would disappear as if the sound didn't exist). Or focusing too much on were the sound will be. I guess it could be a limit of the AD700s, lack of clarity at times and I often looking back spent a bit of mental processing trying to locate people or tell which direction things were. I always noticed directional clues were blurred and or misconstrued.

I've been so disappointed I even at one point considered buying the astro mixamp just to see if I could get better sound and whatnot from dolby though I never did buy it.

I rarely if ever felt secure of locating my enemies the instant I needed so(I'm exaggerating just a little bit but sometimes it made me wonder like what's going on here). Maybe it's the AD700s, I have read a few accounts of the AD700s lacking a bit in detail and clarity of the stereoscopic field(very wide but lacking in detail). But I guess at the same time it could have been the card and the creative 3D system or whatever. I tried a lot of combination pure stereo upmix, 5.1/7.1 downmix etc.etc. through windows properties like it mattered anyways since the card ignores it or so it's said.

There's also the titanium HD which was released a few months back. I didn't bother reading much of it. Some are happy with it but I want to get away from the whole creative thing.

But don't just go out and buy the card. From what I read the dac/amp systems in the xonar are the best bang for buck compared  to an entry level external equipment. At least what they mean is that for something that costs that much it sure does offer a surprising closeness.

Here's two posts I posted with issues involving my audio setup:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=232454&postcount=40

and....

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=232626&postcount=44

Like I said take your time to decide. To be honest I stopped suggesting things to people because I always worry that person will come back and be like "Dude WTF I wasted my money, thanks asshat". And really my recommendations stink anyways, in terms of typing them out. Sounds all random and whatnot; very unprofessional. There's a lot of versus posts and stickies around the internet on onboard vs add-on card out there.
« Last Edit: Fri, 31 December 2010, 04:01:03 by Arc'xer »

Offline godly_music

  • Posts: 255
Soundcard?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 04:37:49 »
I'm happy with my old Creative X-Fi. They had some growing up problems on earlier NForce boards, but I've never had any problems with mine. It's great for all kinds of sound and to work with low latency ASIO. Assuming the X-Fis by other vendors have the same functionality, you can't go wrong with one.

If you're a gamer at all and use Windows Vista / 7, you will want the Creative Alchemy progam which enables hardware acceleration for titles not using OpenAL. (there is no DirectSound from Vista onwards)

Offline EverythingIBM

  • Posts: 1269
Soundcard?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 11:34:26 »
Quote from: Arc'xer;271064
A lot of people and a lot of reviews do recommend the xonar line the ST being the best of the 3 due to lower jitter and the sound it produces is different than the STX, even some returning their STX and exchanging it for the ST albeit the ST does have a PCI connector and unfortunately PCI seems to be going out for some I think they would need a PCIe to PCI adapter.

I went with the x-fi forte, seems like they don't make the forte anymore or they made such a small run it's always out of stock.

Honestly if I had to go back and buy a sound card I would buy the Xonar. It's not that the forte is a bad sound card but it just doesn't wow me anymore and to be honest at times it was a pain to install or reinstall. Hell I even uninstalled it and used onboard because I kept getting noise from the GPU. mouse scrolling and window minimizing and maximizing(and still do guess the lack of shielding was shortsighted) seems like a common problem for it picking up noise. Although my forte doesn't seem to be as bad as others who've had worse problems(seems like a well-built version) it does pick up noise, when near the GPU but away it's dead silent, though as strange as this sounds I kinda feel a sort of electrical background field but that could just the isolation factor of my own self.

It's nice and all but it's kinda disappointing. I should have spent the extra money on the ST. Maybe dolby is better for gaming than considered by some(some have said dolby is not on par with CMSS). Using CMSS-3D sure it's nice and all but never really like "WHOA"(at first yes but then I noticed the issues). And weird things would happen when I'd be gaming like losing track of sounds even in front of me(they would disappear as if the sound didn't exist). Or focusing too much on were the sound will be. I guess it could be a limit of the AD700s, lack of clarity at times and I often looking back spent a bit of mental processing trying to locate people or tell which direction things were. I always noticed directional clues were blurred and or misconstrued.

I've been so disappointed I even at one point considered buying the astro mixamp just to see if I could get better sound and whatnot from dolby though I never did buy it.

I rarely if ever felt secure of locating my enemies the instant I needed so(I'm exaggerating just a little bit but sometimes it made me wonder like what's going on here). Maybe it's the AD700s, I have read a few accounts of the AD700s lacking a bit in detail and clarity of the stereoscopic field(very wide but lacking in detail). But I guess at the same time it could have been the card and the creative 3D system or whatever. I tried a lot of combination pure stereo upmix, 5.1/7.1 downmix etc.etc. through windows properties like it mattered anyways since the card ignores it or so it's said.

There's also the titanium HD which was released a few months back. I didn't bother reading much of it. Some are happy with it but I want to get away from the whole creative thing.

But don't just go out and buy the card. From what I read the dac/amp systems in the xonar are the best bang for buck compared  to an entry level external equipment. At least what they mean is that for something that costs that much it sure does offer a surprising closeness.

Here's two posts I posted with issues involving my audio setup:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=232454&postcount=40

and....

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=232626&postcount=44

Like I said take your time to decide. To be honest I stopped suggesting things to people because I always worry that person will come back and be like "Dude WTF I wasted my money, thanks asshat". And really my recommendations stink anyways, in terms of typing them out. Sounds all random and whatnot; very unprofessional. There's a lot of versus posts and stickies around the internet on onboard vs add-on card out there.


It's a little disappointing PCI is leaning towards being phased out (my new[er] tower had two PCI-e and only one PCI!)
There's still some nice ISA soundcards... gravis ultrasound, Sound blaster 16, AWE64, etc.

Creative has a lot of nice audio products; some people can be so anti-creative (heh), but I don't see why. Their soundcards are some of the better ones out there, and they have some nice audio hardware. I've never been disappointed by their speakers. And I'm fairly picky with audio stuff too.
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Offline bladamson

  • Posts: 161
Soundcard?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 13:23:18 »
The "sound card" in my desktop is a USB audio dongle that came with a headset.  >_>  I had to disable the onboard sound because it was causing a PCI video card to flake out when enabled.  Darn cheapo motherboard. -_-'

It's actually less noisy than the onboard sound was...  No surround sound, but it's just plugged into a $7.50 pair of powered speakers anyway...

Offline NAVIWORLDINC

  • Posts: 81
Soundcard?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 17:05:42 »
I use onboard toslink. **** the police.

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Offline Keymonger

  • Posts: 166
Soundcard?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 19:42:52 »
I use a USB DAC. Great sound, and a dedicated volume knob. Adjusting the volume through software seems so silly and unworkable now.

Offline NAVIWORLDINC

  • Posts: 81
Soundcard?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 31 December 2010, 19:53:25 »
Quote from: ripster;271368
You can listen to YouTube with the crappiest of sound cards


LOL I can listen to it on youtube, but I can also listen to it on FLAC with WMP.


Offline gun_sl1nger

  • Posts: 38
Soundcard?
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 01 January 2011, 05:06:41 »
Quote from: BlueRain;270907
bump? guess no one uses a sound card nowadays.

ASUS STX here

Loooooove the dedicated headphone amp.
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Offline urlwolf

  • Posts: 107
Soundcard?
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 01 January 2011, 09:26:11 »
asus xonar XT too. Plugged to a double-monophonic solid state amp by electroacustic innovations (great company, now extinct), and two Dali Ikon 6 speakers.

I like music :)
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Offline BlueRain

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Soundcard?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 02 January 2011, 02:48:46 »
$50 AR for the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1Ty @ Fry's. Just in time for a sound card upgrade. http://www.frys.com/product/5614511

Offline db_Iodine

  • Posts: 656
Soundcard?
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 02 January 2011, 04:47:24 »
Fubar IV for the headphones and integrated X-Fi for the crappy speakers. Sometime next year I'll upgrade my speakers and probably change the Fubar to some better preamp/headphone amp.
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Offline panda-R

  • Posts: 721
Soundcard?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 02 January 2011, 11:23:19 »
External DAC for all HI Fidelity related chores.
Integrated soundcard on mobo for games.

All those fancy soundblasters look nice though.
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Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Soundcard?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 03 January 2011, 07:46:22 »
What's the best sound card manufacturer to go with these days for open source compatibility?
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Offline bladamson

  • Posts: 161
Soundcard?
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 04 January 2011, 05:16:40 »
Any USB audio device should work smashingly well in Linux.  I've also had good luck with Ensoniq AudioPCI cards, but that was before PulseAudio came along, so I dunno if they still behave or not. -_-'

Though the linux sound situation will remain a mess.  I really hope it settles down a bit soon. -_-'

Offline D-EJ915

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Soundcard?
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 04 January 2011, 19:44:28 »
Quote from: instantkamera;272301
What's the best sound card manufacturer to go with these days for open source compatibility?
The cheapest Asus Xonar PCI-E works fine with Ubuntu 10.10, haven't tried anything fancy with it though.

Offline gun_sl1nger

  • Posts: 38
Soundcard?
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 05 January 2011, 05:17:45 »
Quote from: instantkamera;272301
What's the best sound card manufacturer to go with these days for open source compatibility?

My STX works fine In 10.10 ubuntu
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Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Soundcard?
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 05 January 2011, 07:26:44 »
Sorry, I should clarify, I dont take working in ubuntu to mean much, as they are far more likely to have proprietary drivers available than just about any distro. Does asus actually supply F/OSS drivers?
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Offline godly_music

  • Posts: 255
Soundcard?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 05 January 2011, 07:54:15 »
What I know about sound on Linux is that it is pretty basic. It works, but there's no candy. Having a card with great components always pays off, but all the extra hardware enhancements that require a driver for them to function are most likely not accessed on Linux. An X-Fi under Linux is just as good as an onboard chip. Sure, you may have lower distortion values and if you're real lucky the driver can make the card upsample without glitches, but if I hadn't already bought one I would probably stick to something of decent quality, cheap, and with technology that's been around for a few years. Like an Audigy, or something comparable from the "more music and less games" camp. I only know Creative's.

Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Soundcard?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 05 January 2011, 08:14:27 »
Quote from: godly_music;273445
What I know about sound on Linux is that it is pretty basic. It works, but there's no candy. Having a card with great components always pays off, but all the extra hardware enhancements that require a driver for them to function are most likely not accessed on Linux. An X-Fi under Linux is just as good as an onboard chip. Sure, you may have lower distortion values and if you're real lucky the driver can make the card upsample without glitches, but if I hadn't already bought one I would probably stick to something of decent quality, cheap, and with technology that's been around for a few years. Like an Audigy, or something comparable from the "more music and less games" camp. I only know Creative's.


Excellent points, thanks. I really just want something that will get me off onboard, and if I understand correctly creative cards have great support under linux.
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Offline D-EJ915

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Soundcard?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 05 January 2011, 21:12:09 »
Quote from: instantkamera;273443
Sorry, I should clarify, I dont take working in ubuntu to mean much, as they are far more likely to have proprietary drivers available than just about any distro. Does asus actually supply F/OSS drivers?
I didn't have to click on any weird buttons for it to work, I think the chip in it has an open driver

Offline nowsharing

  • Posts: 247
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Soundcard?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 05 January 2011, 21:30:15 »
Any suggestions for a music-only situation?

I'm using an old M-audio Delta 44, and could probably use an upgrade. Is there anything at/under $50 that would be a step up from what I have?

I connect the Delta 44 to an amp (PA2V2) and Grado SR80s.

Offline fssbzz

  • Posts: 430
Soundcard?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 05 January 2011, 22:44:44 »
asus Xonar DX 7.1 ftw.

Offline nowsharing

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Soundcard?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 06 January 2011, 16:12:07 »
I think that I'll be tracking down a Xonar DS. It's right at my $50 price point and has a replaceable (without soldering) Opamp. I'm a sucker for stuff like that.

Offline phillip

  • Posts: 199
Soundcard?
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 08 January 2011, 21:48:20 »
optical out of onboard sound to a decade old yamaha receiver

Offline Jerri

  • Posts: 77
Soundcard?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 10 January 2011, 17:18:23 »
Got a X-Fi Elite Pro Soundcard, has all i need. Got the last EAX (ok nowadays almost dead), Midi in/Out for my Roland SC-55 II Synthesizer (playing DOS games with the correct sound), a Hi-Z/guitar in, that i can use for Guitarrig 4.
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Offline Apocrypha

  • Posts: 21
Soundcard?
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 13 January 2011, 02:09:12 »
Auzentech Bravura 7.1

7.1 + headphone amp + mic (w/ pre-amp) + optical in(add in board) all in one card. On PCIe. With X-Fi crap as well. And (easily) replaceable OPAMPs.

And since I didn't post in the headphone thread:

Using 7.1 for my 5.1 Logitech X-540s, which will be upgraded eventually.
Headphone + mic for Sennheiser PC350.
And Optical In for my PS3.

As for Linux, I wouldn't bother with trying to find a decent sound card. I've been lucky to get sound to work with past cards at all let alone trying to get good features on one.
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Offline Scarzy

  • Posts: 85
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Soundcard?
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 13 January 2011, 09:19:55 »
I have realtek onboard (standard really) and a creative SB Live! which is still going strong. Need a new one but I'm trying to find something that has optical out as well as pre-amping it to decrease delay but increase quality. It will be going to an old Sony Stacker after that which will have my headphones (HD555).

Anyone have any ideas for an amp like this? I don't really know what I'm looking for apart from one of the asus ones but I dont fancy forking out so much cash for it.

Later I hope to switch to a pair of DT770s and switch to a headphone amp for space issues. I'll get a model number of the stacker when I get home!

Offline Ekaros

  • Posts: 942
Soundcard?
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 13 January 2011, 19:05:45 »
Hmm, now that I got my new headphones this is next wast... "investment", atleast in some time in future...
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
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Offline typo

  • Posts: 1676
Soundcard?
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 13 January 2011, 21:26:54 »
i am using a lynx l22 into a lavry da924. i'll stop there lol. it depends how important listening to music is to you.

Offline FrittenFett

  • Posts: 39
Soundcard?
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 14 January 2011, 09:46:52 »
Xonar D1 ftw!
(= Xonar DX PCI-Version)

Offline Voyager

  • Posts: 14
Soundcard?
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 14 January 2011, 13:09:49 »
Not really a card, but a FireWire audio interface - Terratec PHASE 24FW. I use it as a combined DAC/headphone amp. A little finicky but sounds fantastic.

Offline George7

  • Posts: 57
Soundcard?
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 15 January 2011, 07:46:07 »
I bought an X-Fi Platinum about 6 months ago now. The difference was incredible with my DT770s.