[IC] Sagittarius (dates, proxies and US prices announced)

[Ciantha]

As such, even if no trade deal is agreed (which is still to be determined) VAT should not be charged again. On the off chance it is, you will be able to reclaim that with the original purchase order as proof following the rules and process in your country.

I would like to urge everyone who lives in an EU country to verify the above with their local customs and tax agencies.

If we use Sweden as an example the Swedish customs agency states explicitly that if the goods are shipped after 31st of December you will have to pay Swedish VAT even if the goods were ordered and paid for before the 31st^1,2.


So you'd pay Swedish VAT (25%) on:
the price of the keyboard (though presumable excluding the previously paid VAT) + shipping + duties (though there shouldn't be any duties assuming it's classified either under hs-code 847160 or 847330)


¹In Swedish: https://www.tullverket.se/sv/privat/brexitforprivatpersoner.4.2894757916870c7915c2.html
²In English:
https://www.tullverket.se/en/private/brexitwhatdoesitmeanforprivateindividuals.4.311bf4f016e69d6ea0d8f3.html

[FlitzDeelman]

A new member here in GH. I have been eying for an ergo mech and would really, really love this Sagittarius. Before moving to mech, I used Microsoft ergo keeb as my daily, so I am really digging this Sagittarius since I dont see ergo keebs that often. I checked on Prototypist.net since I am in Europe, but could not see this Sagittarius anymore. Is it really impossible for me to get one? TIA.

I believe that the different proxies / vendors will add pages for these group buy keyboards quite late, sometimes a day beforehand. Am I right Upas / Jae? I don't see a page on CannonKeys for the Sagittarius either.

I don't believe this is out of the ordinary.

Welcome to the community! (From a relative n00b such as myself.)

[Gondolindrim]

Ok guys, CannonKeys will open their GB at 11AM EST. Other proxies might vary their times to better attend their regions. I'll post their times here once I have the information.

The proxies will region lock their GBs.

[Gondolindrim]

A new member here in GH. I have been eying for an ergo mech and would really, really love this Sagittarius. Before moving to mech, I used Microsoft ergo keeb as my daily, so I am really digging this Sagittarius since I dont see ergo keebs that often. I checked on Prototypist.net since I am in Europe, but could not see this Sagittarius anymore. Is it really impossible for me to get one? TIA.

I believe that the different proxies / vendors will add pages for these group buy keyboards quite late, sometimes a day beforehand. Am I right Upas / Jae? I don't see a page on CannonKeys for the Sagittarius either.

I don't believe this is out of the ordinary.

Welcome to the community! (From a relative n00b such as myself.)

Indeed, thei haven't added the pages yet and prolly will a cople days in advance

[Bamboo238]

Haven't checked this IC for a while, but pleasantly surprised that the GB is around the corner now. Will definitely try to hop on board - been looking forward to this from the beginning!

[SirKhamenman]

Is there still a spot for this?

[dmatx1]

Is there still a spot for this?

The GB hasn't run yet.

The Sagittarius keyboard Group Buy will start in Sagittarius season, of course! Beggining in november 21 until november 27 at 11:59 PM EST.

Ok guys, CannonKeys will open their GB at 11AM EST. Other proxies might vary their times to better attend their regions. I'll post their times here once I have the information.

[SirKhamenman]

Awesome! Thanks for the reply. Definitely I will keep an eye on this thread

Is there still a spot for this?

The GB hasn't run yet.

The Sagittarius keyboard Group Buy will start in Sagittarius season, of course! Beggining in november 21 until november 27 at 11:59 PM EST.

Ok guys, CannonKeys will open their GB at 11AM EST. Other proxies might vary their times to better attend their regions. I'll post their times here once I have the information.

[CGreat]

The Sagittarius keyboard Group Buy will start in Sagittarius season, of course! Beggining in november 21 until november 27 at 11:59 PM EST.

Gondo, I'm pretty confident this beautiful board won't need 6 days to sell 175 units . Hoping i can be one of the lucky ones!

[Gondolindrim]

The Sagittarius keyboard Group Buy will start in Sagittarius season, of course! Beggining in november 21 until november 27 at 11:59 PM EST.

Gondo, I'm pretty confident this beautiful board won't need 6 days to sell 175 units . Hoping i can be one of the lucky ones!

You people keep telling me that, yet I persist not to believe this board got so much traction

[paperassgasket]

so what are you gonna do with the other 5.99 days after this sells out?

[FlitzDeelman]

so what are you gonna do with the other 5.99 days after this sells out?

Convince Upas for round 2..?!

[Jo_hannes]

I would like to urge everyone who lives in an EU country to verify the above with their local customs and tax agencies.

If we use Sweden as an example the Swedish customs agency states explicitly that if the goods are shipped after 31st of December you will have to pay Swedish VAT even if the goods were ordered and paid for before the 31st^1,2.

So you'd pay Swedish VAT (25%) on:
the price of the keyboard (though presumable excluding the previously paid VAT) + shipping + duties

Hi again, Gondo,

Sorry to bother you about this crap again.
With this info (I am located in Sweden), this actually means I would get the double taxation - as even if a trade deal is agreed, as GB does not want to be part of the common market any more, a private person would likely still pay VAT on import, already having paid 20% VAT in GB at the time of the buy. Overall, considering extras (PCB, plate), the loss would be around 130 USD - that is a lot of money, TBH.
As a result, I would much rather buy from Ilum, then I know I pay 25% on import, but only on the original price. Due to region locking, that is not a possibility. With the coming political changes, GB is essentially a region of one and EU seems to be effectively locked out as a result. It's the result of ill-informed populist-fueled political decisions (I know Brazil has its share of those), but they impact people in a very real way.
I know this is not Jae's fault, but I am really at a loss as to how to handle this. Would there be a way to soften the region-locking, as I assume, with this situation, Jae may not sell the assigned units (or there will be lots of salt when people are unknowingly hit with the double tax next year)?

Again, sorry that I couldn't contribute to this in a more meaningful way. So, here goes some feedback: This is an excellent and very interesting project and I admire your dedication to it, and your perseverance. I am also very sorry for your loss, this is a beautiful tribute to a beloved friend.

Have a good one!
Johannes

[lush_bunny]

wait a minute... did the gb date span change? could've sworn I saw this stretch into December

[dmatx1]

wait a minute... did the gb date span change? could've sworn I saw this stretch into December

Sagittarius sign: November 21 – December 21
Group buy: November 21 - November 27

But tbh the GB end date doesn't matter at all, it will sell out in minutes.

[titisee5]

As such, even if no trade deal is agreed (which is still to be determined) VAT should not be charged again. On the off chance it is, you will be able to reclaim that with the original purchase order as proof following the rules and process in your country.

I would like to urge everyone who lives in an EU country to verify the above with their local customs and tax agencies.

If we use Sweden as an example the Swedish customs agency states explicitly that if the goods are shipped after 31st of December you will have to pay Swedish VAT even if the goods were ordered and paid for before the 31st^1,2.


So you'd pay Swedish VAT (25%) on:
the price of the keyboard (though presumable excluding the previously paid VAT) + shipping + duties (though there shouldn't be any duties assuming it's classified either under hs-code 847160 or 847330)


¹In Swedish: https://www.tullverket.se/sv/privat/brexitforprivatpersoner.4.2894757916870c7915c2.html
²In English:
https://www.tullverket.se/en/private/brexitwhatdoesitmeanforprivateindividuals.4.311bf4f016e69d6ea0d8f3.html

I suspect that this is true for all EU countries.
However, even after searching for some time, I was unable to find an official source.

But there is a guy on r/brexit who seems to be sure about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comments/jv7lwa/selling_into_europe_this_year_but_not_shipping/gci3l0j/

Sent from my POCO F2 Pro using Tapatalk

[LucaLo_]

Great work Gondo, as always. Look forward to seeing these in people's hands.

[ellw]

I would like to urge everyone who lives in an EU country to verify the above with their local customs and tax agencies.

If we use Sweden as an example the Swedish customs agency states explicitly that if the goods are shipped after 31st of December you will have to pay Swedish VAT even if the goods were ordered and paid for before the 31st^1,2.

So you'd pay Swedish VAT (25%) on:
the price of the keyboard (though presumable excluding the previously paid VAT) + shipping + duties

Hi again, Gondo,

Sorry to bother you about this crap again.
With this info (I am located in Sweden), this actually means I would get the double taxation - as even if a trade deal is agreed, as GB does not want to be part of the common market any more, a private person would likely still pay VAT on import, already having paid 20% VAT in GB at the time of the buy. Overall, considering extras (PCB, plate), the loss would be around 130 USD - that is a lot of money, TBH.
As a result, I would much rather buy from Ilum, then I know I pay 25% on import, but only on the original price. Due to region locking, that is not a possibility. With the coming political changes, GB is essentially a region of one and EU seems to be effectively locked out as a result. It's the result of ill-informed populist-fueled political decisions (I know Brazil has its share of those), but they impact people in a very real way.
I know this is not Jae's fault, but I am really at a loss as to how to handle this. Would there be a way to soften the region-locking, as I assume, with this situation, Jae may not sell the assigned units (or there will be lots of salt when people are unknowingly hit with the double tax next year)?

Again, sorry that I couldn't contribute to this in a more meaningful way. So, here goes some feedback: This is an excellent and very interesting project and I admire your dedication to it, and your perseverance. I am also very sorry for your loss, this is a beautiful tribute to a beloved friend.

Have a good one!
Johannes

I have nothing to contribute to the VAT discussion but from past drops (Iron180) Louis (from IlumKB) did say that the region lock was only for the first 5 minutes, and thereafter anyone in the world could purchase. Of course Iron didn't last all of 90 seconds so this was irrelevant, so if Sagittarius makes it in stock past 5 minutes you could probably pick one up from IlumKB.

[WhitePlate]

I liked the previous design more.  But I can see the appeal of the newer design. 

 

[paulgali]

I'm a bit concerned that us in the middle east are going to find it hard to buy. We often use shipping proxies globally, is that not an option for the MENA buy?

[dmatx1]

I'm a bit concerned that us in the middle east are going to find it hard to buy. We often use shipping proxies globally, is that not an option for the MENA buy?

prototypist.net:

The Sagittarius Group Buy will go live at 4pm UK time - in alignment with Cannon Keys and will be region locked for Day 1 to Europe and MENA. From Day 2 it will be worldwide if any units remain. Limited to 50 units.

[musdem]

Is CannonKeys locked to the US only or all of North America. I'm in Canada and am interested in trying to snag a board.

[SirKhamenman]

So the GB will start on Prototypist.net on Saturday 21 Nov at 4pm UK time which is 5pm CET time? Perfect, will be waiting in front of my laptop for the GB

I'm a bit concerned that us in the middle east are going to find it hard to buy. We often use shipping proxies globally, is that not an option for the MENA buy?

prototypist.net:

The Sagittarius Group Buy will go live at 4pm UK time - in alignment with Cannon Keys and will be region locked for Day 1 to Europe and MENA. From Day 2 it will be worldwide if any units remain. Limited to 50 units.

[kidpid]

Is the navy color of the revised version shown in Taeha's stream the same navy color as the prototype he built?

[tryhardicious]

Is the navy color of the revised version shown in Taeha's stream the same navy color as the prototype he built?

Yes, see updated initial post.

[dmatx1]

Gray / Lilac

Will gray and lilac be the same as on this Chimera 65?

[orpheo]

12. GB announcement

After yesterday's Minterly stream you guys were able to see the new iteration of the case in action with the glorious RGB constellation!

Stream link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/792335918

Dates

The Sagittarius keyboard Group Buy will start in Sagittarius season, of course! Beggining in november 21 until november 27 at 11:59 PM EST.

[Gondolindrim]

I would like to urge everyone who lives in an EU country to verify the above with their local customs and tax agencies.

If we use Sweden as an example the Swedish customs agency states explicitly that if the goods are shipped after 31st of December you will have to pay Swedish VAT even if the goods were ordered and paid for before the 31st^1,2.

So you'd pay Swedish VAT (25%) on:
the price of the keyboard (though presumable excluding the previously paid VAT) + shipping + duties

Hi again, Gondo,

Sorry to bother you about this crap again.
With this info (I am located in Sweden), this actually means I would get the double taxation - as even if a trade deal is agreed, as GB does not want to be part of the common market any more, a private person would likely still pay VAT on import, already having paid 20% VAT in GB at the time of the buy. Overall, considering extras (PCB, plate), the loss would be around 130 USD - that is a lot of money, TBH.
As a result, I would much rather buy from Ilum, then I know I pay 25% on import, but only on the original price. Due to region locking, that is not a possibility. With the coming political changes, GB is essentially a region of one and EU seems to be effectively locked out as a result. It's the result of ill-informed populist-fueled political decisions (I know Brazil has its share of those), but they impact people in a very real way.
I know this is not Jae's fault, but I am really at a loss as to how to handle this. Would there be a way to soften the region-locking, as I assume, with this situation, Jae may not sell the assigned units (or there will be lots of salt when people are unknowingly hit with the double tax next year)?

Again, sorry that I couldn't contribute to this in a more meaningful way. So, here goes some feedback: This is an excellent and very interesting project and I admire your dedication to it, and your perseverance. I am also very sorry for your loss, this is a beautiful tribute to a beloved friend.

Have a good one!
Johannes

First of all, I am really sorry about this whole thing and I want to ask you that you be patient with me as I have stumbled upon it just now and honestly I don't know what to make of it.

I will ask Jae to get in here and respond this. No matter what research I do I still can't decisively answer if you will be hit with a double taxation or not. I recommend you reach out to him and ask those things too.

[geewiz]

I will ask Jae to get in here and respond this.

That's probably for the best. At this opportunity, Jae could also announce his pricing, or did I miss something?

[Gondolindrim]

Gray / Lilac

Will gray and lilac be the same as on this Chimera 65?

IIRC the lilac will be the same, the gray will be a slightly lighter shade

[Gondolindrim]

Is CannonKeys locked to the US only or all of North America. I'm in Canada and am interested in trying to snag a board.

CK will deal with the Americas and US territories

[Mistah]

Will there be pics of the updated boards before we make our purchase (either here or on the purchase page)?

[Gondolindrim]

Will there be pics of the updated boards before we make our purchase (either here or on the purchase page)?

Yes! GB page should be up soon

[kidpid]

Is the navy color of the revised version shown in Taeha's stream the same navy color as the prototype he built?

Yes, see updated initial post.

Yes, I saw that. The reason I ask that question is because the navy on the pictured revised version of the case looks very different from the navy of the original prototype. I'm curious if the navy colors are the same and it's just a lighting difference, or if they are legitimately different.

[tryhardicious]

Is the navy color of the revised version shown in Taeha's stream the same navy color as the prototype he built?

Yes, see updated initial post.

Yes, I saw that. The reason I ask that question is because the navy on the pictured revised version of the case looks very different from the navy of the original prototype. I'm curious if the navy colors are the same and it's just a lighting difference, or if they are legitimately different.

Didn't want to be mean, just thought you didn't read the thread

[kidpid]

Didn't want to be mean, just thought you didn't read the thread

Haha, no worries. That wouldn't actually be out of character for me. I should have elaborated on my original question.

[ephemeral25]

Definitely supporting this project! I hope that it's gonna be a success in Europe 

[phxrbn]

Were pictures of the final colors ever posted?

[Chungle]

Were pictures of the final colors ever posted?

Gondo said they will be in the GB post which should be posted soon.

[fabijolo]

iLumkb actually just revealed them on their page, all of them look really great, but I especially love the Grey-Lilac one.

Were pictures of the final colors ever posted?

[Mistah]

iLumkb actually just revealed them on their page, all of them look really great, but I especially love the Grey-Lilac one.
(Attachment Link)

Were pictures of the final colors ever posted?

Could you provide a link? I can't seem to find the page for some reason. These pics are kind of rough. The black crush on the blue and black makes it really hard to see. Maybe it's due to how they were exported?

Edit: Daily clack posted here as well https://dailyclack.com/collections/group-buys/products/sagittarius-keyboard-kit?variant=32386931589175

It's the same photos though

[tryhardicious]

Hey Gondo, I just read that the included plate doesn't support iso enter. Are the plate files still going to be open sourced?

Generally I must say I really like this keyboard.
Both design and functionality!
Thanks for the effort you put in.

[vaf1en]

First of all, I am really sorry about this whole thing and I want to ask you that you be patient with me as I have stumbled upon it just now and honestly I don't know what to make of it.

I will ask Jae to get in here and respond this. No matter what research I do I still can't decisively answer if you will be hit with a double taxation or not. I recommend you reach out to him and ask those things too.

Being one of those asking about "double taxation" in the first place, I would like to apologize for the disturbances it has caused. My reply here is a bit long and as such not specific to the Sagittarius GB - I just do not know where else to post this. 

I would like to give a small update in regards to how this affects Danish customers.
(I know Denmark is a small country, but it is part of the European Union (EU) and at least the rules seem very similar to the Swedish rules on how brexit is handled from an import tax/customs point of view.)

# Double taxation trouble
Having spoken to the Danish authorities on the matter the following can be said:
 - Item ordered and paid for in 2020 -- you pay UK taxes to the vendor at time of purchase *
 - Item shipped on or after January 1st 2021 -- you pay import taxes to local authorities

# Shipping is key
The deciding factor in determining whether you will have to pay import taxes is the shipping date and that alone.
 - If the order is shipped before January 1st 2021 you will not pay import taxes because the UK is still part of the EU.
 - If the order is shipped on or after January 1st 2021 you will pay import taxes (and handling fees) because the UK is no-longer part of the EU.

Let me be clear that this holds true for any order between a UK vendor and an EU customer, it is not restricted in anyway to "our little hobby". But because of the GB nature of being largely a waiting game, this applies to any GB run in 2020 with an expected shipping date in 2021.

# Ease the pain a little?
TL;DR: Ask vendor to refund UK taxes collected at time of purchase.

From the Danish authorities' point of view, the rules are crystal clear on when and how to determine if import taxes must be payed. (They used the term of "goods entering the European Union" which leads me to believe the same rules apply across the EU as such and not just a Danish interpretation.)
It is up to the vendor to refund the UK taxes paid by the customer when placing the order. That is the official statement.
The specifics of how a UK vendor clears this with the UK authorities is unclear to me, but it is abundantly clear to me that the EU is going to collect import taxes based on shipping date and the rest is up to the UK to handle nationally.

* The vendor has to collect these taxes on behalf of the UK/EU authorities and is in no way doing this to annoy anyone - just obeying the rules of trade.

[Gondolindrim]

Hey Gondo, I just read that the included plate doesn't support iso enter. Are the plate files still going to be open sourced?

Generally I must say I really like this keyboard.
Both design and functionality!
Thanks for the effort you put in.

Yes, plate files will be open-sourced!

[Gondolindrim]

GB thread up, waiting for mod approval: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=109701

Locking this IC thread. Good luck guys!