Post by: morpheus on Thu, 04 July 2013, 10:56:05
Which Alps keyboards have you loved over the years?
Which ones do you use on a regular basis?
Which ones do you recommend for the community?
I can only wish to own as many Alps keyboards as this guy...
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 04 July 2013, 10:57:58
My favorite Alps type switch is the Matias Clicky Switch. It will be going into the future GH TKL Alps custom board (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44576.0). Otherwise, I would've snagged a Kingsaver :D
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 04 July 2013, 10:59:03
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 04 July 2013, 11:08:26
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 04 July 2013, 11:36:06
I do have a new SGI Granite 9500900. That is a beautiful piece of hardware for sure. Probably the best built Alps board of all time.
I'm planning to mod an abs M1 to better switches to have a modern full-size Alps board, and hopefully get the Alps TKL project board (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44576.0) when it's available. Not sure where to go from there. Maybe I'll close out my Alps collection at that point.
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 04 July 2013, 11:39:43
I'll barrage you guys with pics of all my alps board when i get home tonight.
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 04 July 2013, 15:07:37
Then I got a vintage Apple Standard Keyboard this week. It has Salmon pink Alps, and I love the feel of them with the Apple keycaps. They do feel a bit like "MX Ergo Clear" or "Panda Clear". Unfortunately, it is a M0118 with a bit of a weird layout. The M0116 has the Control key in the "correct" position (according to me), where this one has a latching Caps Lock.
I also have a Chicony keyboard with SMK "Montereys". They are not Alps, they merely have Alps-compatible keycaps. One of the best type of clicky switches, for sure. A bit like a more tactile, somewhat harder Cherry MX Blue.
Post by: GLaDOS on Thu, 04 July 2013, 17:36:29
(http://a.pomf.se/8Lz8.jpg)
Luckily I have an old broken AT102W with about 100 ALPS switches. I'd like to keep a few for when i need to perform surgery on mine (happened under the black caps), but if anyone needs one or two, I could perhaps take them off.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 04 July 2013, 20:18:48
My 1087XM with green ALPS, right when I got it in April. I hate a lot of things about it, but it's the best feeling keyboard I've ever used (at least, until I got my hhkb). I'm considering selling it, not because I don't like it, but because I don't have a use for it. I really do love it, though.
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 04 July 2013, 20:34:16
The most common "good" board you could find there was a Focus 2001, for somewhere between 1 and 5 USD if I recall right.
More recently, I got a DK1008XM with green switches; they're nice in their own way, but they aren't traditional old white ALPS. :/
Post by: jabar on Thu, 04 July 2013, 20:41:39
Post by: morpheus on Fri, 05 July 2013, 00:29:59
Post by: 1391406 on Fri, 05 July 2013, 03:51:13
Post by: nappi11 on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:09:04
The keyboard I'm using at the moment:
(http://i.imgur.com/zTCkYbTh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/sOuFNZeh.jpg)
PCB says it is Focus FK-747A, but there are no labels on the case. Switches are complicated & clicky blue alps, except WASD + L-Shift & L-Alt modded into linear/very little tactile and no clicky sound, because of gaming.
The fluffy layout can be seen from the pictures.
Post by: laffindude on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:31:31
Post by: jkercado on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:46:36
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/jkercado/temporary_zps715ffb01.jpg)
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 05 July 2013, 15:38:43
Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues)
(http://i.imgur.com/iEckdSj.jpg)
Dell AT101 (Black ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/mqAgclp.jpg)
Old Logo Dell AT101 (Pink ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/maWlhur.jpg)
Filco Zero (I modded this to orange ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZmeBSdm.jpg)
MTek-104 (Monterey Blues)
(http://i.imgur.com/TX9qU3D.jpg)
Northgate Omikey (This came stock with white ALPs....I modded it to blue ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/H1tLYLd.jpg)
SGI Granite (Dampened white ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/TbTydHW.jpg)
SGI White (Dampened cream ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/d6Ajaq3.jpg)
Siig Minitouch (Montery Blues)
(http://i.imgur.com/rhJcOjd.jpg)
Zenith ZKB2-AT (Linear Green ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/Qzw0SW6.jpg)
Zenith ZKB2-AT (Linear Yellow ALPs)
(http://i.imgur.com/bwcsrcR.jpg)
Wang 724 (Orange Omrons)
(http://i.imgur.com/qkrYDJE.jpg)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 July 2013, 15:43:55
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 05 July 2013, 17:27:25
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 July 2013, 19:16:00
Here are pics of some of the ALPs boards I've owned (many I've since sold).
I was wondering when you were going to put out.
Nothing for me to add except that I have an actual "Alps Electric" branded keyboard (ANSI, complicated white) in storage.
I hate to break it out for a photo, but this thread needs it. Also, somebody crack open some old Apple boards.
Post by: morpheus on Fri, 05 July 2013, 19:41:55
Post by: calavera on Fri, 05 July 2013, 21:33:26
I really look forward to all the custom alps projects that are happening. ;)
Post by: grips on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:06:14
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:55:02
Post by: calavera on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:56:19
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 05 July 2013, 22:56:58
Post by: TimIsABat on Fri, 05 July 2013, 23:40:18
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 06 July 2013, 00:37:57
Post by: hasu on Sat, 06 July 2013, 23:32:32
http://imgur.com/a/N1yMX
http://imgur.com/a/QyXhu
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 July 2013, 07:50:07
That's a shame - seems like there were a lot of different switches, and lots of love for them.
I think that Alps switches feel better than Cherries, I like click and Cherry has never gotten it right.
Post by: Halvar on Sun, 07 July 2013, 09:32:29
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 08 July 2013, 08:04:05
Sup
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 08 July 2013, 08:15:08
Link me some info on that LZ Sifo. I thought Kingsaver and Calavera's MX/Alps board were the only few Korean custom Alps boards out right now.
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 08 July 2013, 08:19:30
/me ruins his Filco with all his drooling
Link me some info on that LZ Sifo. I thought Kingsaver and Calavera's MX/Alps board were the only few Korean custom Alps boards out right now.
LZ himself just posted it today and it's literally like pasted together.
(http://i.imgur.com/30dW6sE.jpg)
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 10 July 2013, 10:51:02
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:32:38
1) Matias Clicky
2) Monterey Blues
3) Clicky Whites
4) Tactile Blacks
5) Matias Quiet
I still haven't tried Complicated Blue Alps but I heard they're sexy.
Top Alps boards:
1) Filco Zero
2) Filco Zero
3) Filco Zero
4) Filco Zero
5) Filco Zero
I love the Filco Zero :P; it's one of my dream boards along with the G80-5000. There's also apparently a modern TKL layout Alps board that Leopold put out but I forgot what it was called. The Apple AEK and AT101W are very nice. I'm getting a Siig Minitouch and Dauphin board soon so I'll comment on those soon.
I'm thinking that the Kingsaver, Calavera's Mini Alps/MX, and the future GH TKL Alps boards are gonna be awesome as well.
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:36:48
(http://i.imgur.com/Jmnqn4w.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)
sup
Post by: terrpn on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:45:56
What do you GH'ers think are the top 5 Alps Switches, and top 5 Alps keyboards?
akimbo is definitely a stud with those boards- wow!
my favorite alps [like] switch is monterey blues, but i think that is only because i do not have a complicated blue alps yet.
would definitely like to buy one if anybody has 1 they want to turn loose :-*
i hear the creamy alps are pretty creamy...........
i have more alps boards than i do cherry boards:)
Post by: pasph on Wed, 10 July 2013, 12:51:46
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Ywtkhmi.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Jmnqn4w.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)
sup
GIVE ME ONE OF THOSE
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:35:42
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:36:48
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 10 July 2013, 16:42:38
P.S. I'm awaiting delivery of my Chicony 5160AT so I can try out and harvest some complicated blues. My order of Matias click switches is delayed by like a month too, so it's going to be a while before I answer the question about my favorite switches. I'm impatient!
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:22:57
Sifo doesn't actually have or own those boards lmao. He's just posting stuff he sees on KBD.
Those guys at KBD are ballers. I don't know how they get all this stuff.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:23:56
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:31:24
Get? They MAKE :P
Daaaamn..... :blank:
Post by: AKIMbO on Wed, 10 July 2013, 19:20:18
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Ywtkhmi.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Jmnqn4w.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)
sup
OMG want....do want!
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 10 July 2013, 22:32:27
but I'll see about getting one or two of these. There's been a sudden influx of "custom" alps boards.
And then sell it or give it away to one of you alps lovers.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 10 July 2013, 23:56:43
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 07:49:24
SIFO, HOOK ME UP.
Post by: DamnDan on Thu, 11 July 2013, 09:42:08
I am currently typing on AT101W which I loooove (tested some MX boards and really don't like them as much).
Recently my collegue bought Monterey board with white alps (we thought it will have monterey switches, but it turned out for the better) and boy do I want me some of these as well :P
Sifo...i must say that want level is high within me right now...ALPS mini board....mmmm...
Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre. But I will wait patiently and maybe one day some will show up :)
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 11 July 2013, 09:54:16
Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre.
That's not a problem, it just means you'll have fewer distractions from the great typing experience!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 09:58:55
Post by: DamnDan on Thu, 11 July 2013, 10:17:46
Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre.
That's not a problem, it just means you'll have fewer distractions from the great typing experience!
Well, that might be true ;) but what i dream about is having a red line of keys going from "tilde" to numpad "-". But you are right, typing experience was never sooo goood :)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 10:20:21
Post by: GLaDOS on Thu, 11 July 2013, 12:14:31
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 11 July 2013, 12:43:05
Novelty caps distract you? Interesting.
Just trying to make him feel better about the lack of Alps caps. But who knows? If enough interest can be generated in an Alps revival, maybe cap makers will follow.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 July 2013, 12:46:29
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 13 July 2013, 20:55:11
Here's a reference for lubing alps switches, courtesy of finkl over at KBD.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 14 July 2013, 01:33:16
Post by: hasu on Sun, 14 July 2013, 07:50:23
Without lubing every old Alps boards I got didn't works decently except for NIB one.
Alps tends to go rotten quickly comparing with Cherry? Fortunately lubing Alps is not difficult and it works well with good care.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 July 2013, 08:29:33
Alps tends to go rotten quickly comparing with Cherry?
I don't know. I have gotten old worn Alps that looked terrible but felt great, and virtually new ones that were awful. It is not just age or wear.
Post by: GLaDOS on Sun, 14 July 2013, 08:42:04
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 14 July 2013, 09:37:44
Post by: MTManiac on Mon, 26 August 2013, 15:14:05
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.
Post by: Grimey on Mon, 26 August 2013, 19:30:21
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.
The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest. Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches.
That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.
Post by: Niomosy on Mon, 26 August 2013, 20:22:21
(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 26 August 2013, 20:45:41
Not the greatest picture but here's my SGI Granite.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)
That's interesting - white and gray (whatever), but the function keys are all white.
There was a discussion about this somewhere here recently.
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 26 August 2013, 22:20:28
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.
The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest. Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches.
That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.
Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?
I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.
Post by: Burz on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:21:53
1. Blue CM
2. Matias Quiet
3. Fukka Clicky (haven't tried Matias clicky yet)
4. Monterery blue
5. Black CM
Compared with other switch types, I'd say that buckling spring are about 2.5 and the more popular Cherry MX are about on par with #5. As for RD, I've never tried Topre but I'd rate ThinkPad RD somewhere in the middle of that list (though the new keycaps are A+ in my opinion... very easy to hit quickly and properly).
After just a couple weeks, I love my Mini Quiet Pro; It's spoiling me. It and its siblings (Mini Tactile Pro and Laptop Pro) are the only compact ALPS keyboards you can buy new today, and they've got great switches.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:32:17
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.
The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest. Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches.
That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.
Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?
I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.
Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed. Plus, all reviews are that the Ducky Alps board are ducking awful.
I got hold of a couple of Dell AT101Ws, and an Abs M1 for my own future switch transplant boards. Neither is TKL, but the M1 is a modern 104 chassis, at least, and the Dell boards are nice quality, key caps excepted.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 26 August 2013, 23:54:54
Show Image(http://f1nkl.iptime.org:1090/files/ks/DSCF0002yp.JPG)
Here's a reference for lubing alps switches, courtesy of finkl over at KBD.
So I saw this post and I realized I had no idea how to actually open up an Alps switch so I did a little digging. For anyone curious as to how to open the switches to be able to lube them, thought I'd post some info:
- Ripster's guide on how to remove keycaps and stabilizers: http://imgur.com/a/NRpIn#0
- Ripster's guide on how to disassemble the switches: http://imgur.com/a/elAFF#0
- From this achieved thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=7121.0), Wellington1869's videos on disassembly with 2 screwdrivers:
disassembly with forcep tweezers:
and assembly: - And for posterity the threads that Wellington1869 made about modding an Alps board (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=4901.0)
Post by: nappi11 on Tue, 27 August 2013, 09:19:16
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 27 August 2013, 09:35:51
Love Orange Alps and Monterey Blue. Never tried Blue Alps but all I have heard are good things.
I just purchased some Matias clicky. We'll see how those work out.
Alps weened me off Cherry switches. I prefer the higher actuation point. Actually the only Cherry board that I will buy are ergo boards. Buckling spring, Topre, and Alps for everything else.
Post by: Grimey on Tue, 27 August 2013, 11:03:32
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.
The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest. Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches.
That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.
Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?
I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.
Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed. Plus, all reviews are that the Ducky Alps board are ducking awful.
I got hold of a couple of Dell AT101Ws, and an Abs M1 for my own future switch transplant boards. Neither is TKL, but the M1 is a modern 104 chassis, at least, and the Dell boards are nice quality, key caps excepted.
The swapping worked fine for me. I have a Dell AT101W with green XM switches from as Ducky, and a Ducky 1008XM with black ALPS switches from said AT101W.
I also have a 1087XM board sitting around, I just really would prefer a gh-60 ALPS variant for layout options and size than the typical TKL.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Tue, 27 August 2013, 15:05:59
I wanted to try out alps switches vs cherry and picked up two chicony boards, one with complicated white one with monterey blue
I am not a fan of the layout and was hoping there was an easy way to make a TKL or smaller form factor keyboard with alps switches.
The ones Sifo posted a while back were sick looking, and finding a case and pcb would be all I need since I can harvest switches.
The difficulty is annoying one sided in your quest. Getting a TKL ANSI pcb for ALPS switches is appears to me to be exponentially more difficult that getting switches.
That said I will always appreciated my ALPS, I just sit patiently with bags of switches for one of the projects to take off.
Can you find someone with a Ducky 1087XM that's willing to scrap it?
I'm thinking of doing some switch-swaps on my 1008XM because it otherwise fits my needs for a modern board.
Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed. Plus, all reviews are that the Ducky Alps board are ducking awful.
I got hold of a couple of Dell AT101Ws, and an Abs M1 for my own future switch transplant boards. Neither is TKL, but the M1 is a modern 104 chassis, at least, and the Dell boards are nice quality, key caps excepted.
The swapping worked fine for me. I have a Dell AT101W with green XM switches from as Ducky, and a Ducky 1008XM with black ALPS switches from said AT101W.
I also have a 1087XM board sitting around, I just really would prefer a gh-60 ALPS variant for layout options and size than the typical TKL.
Thanks for the correction. I'm really glad that's the case.
Post by: Binge on Tue, 27 August 2013, 15:19:16
Post by: N8N on Tue, 27 August 2013, 16:16:35
I'm using an SGI Granite board with cream Alps at work (silent tactical Alps), and while the switches could be lighter for me, it has a very nice feel and is nicely silent.
This. I don't like the AT101W because I can't help but bottom out on it, but with the dampers on the creams I can bottom out all day without stress or noise. Love my Granite, if I had to sell all but one of my keyboards, it'd be in the final three. (the other two being a Wyse terminal with blacks and a Filco with clears and imsto PBTs.)
Post by: abdulmuhsee on Tue, 27 August 2013, 16:52:36
After just a couple weeks, I love my Mini Quiet Pro; It's spoiling me. It and its siblings (Mini Tactile Pro and Laptop Pro) are the only compact ALPS keyboards you can buy new today, and they've got great switches.
Speaking of new compact ALPS, I just paid for a "new old stock" SIIG MiniTouch on eBay, which solved my Mini Quiet Pro vs. whatever dilemma. Otherwise, yeah, one is pretty much limited to Matias if they want a new, compact (or any size) ALPS board.
I'm hoping the Monterey Blues are just as solid as regular ALPS, since I'm probably never going to find a new MiniTouch again (unless the seller has more up his sleeve), and I plan to use it plenty.
Post by: Niomosy on Tue, 27 August 2013, 17:11:54
Not the greatest picture but here's my SGI Granite.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)
That's interesting - white and gray (whatever), but the function keys are all white.
There was a discussion about this somewhere here recently.
Really? That's the normal color combination I've seen for SGI granite keyboards. Deskthority and Ripster had that same color combination up on their SGI granite info pages.
It's the combo I vaguely remember from supporting a load of SGI's back in the 90s as well.
Post by: N8N on Tue, 27 August 2013, 17:25:18
Not the greatest picture but here's my SGI Granite.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ehG0JrW.jpg)
That's interesting - white and gray (whatever), but the function keys are all white.
There was a discussion about this somewhere here recently.
Really? That's the normal color combination I've seen for SGI granite keyboards. Deskthority and Ripster had that same color combination up on their SGI granite info pages.
It's the combo I vaguely remember from supporting a load of SGI's back in the 90s as well.
I think the point was that the Model M (which pretty much defined the standard 101 key layout, and was subsequently modified for the 104-key layout) had the function keys alternating in blocks of four. So it's odd that the Granite used such a bog-standard layout but deviated from the standard color scheme. But those keycaps are nice aren't they?
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 27 August 2013, 18:36:44
Careful--I've read that Alps XM switches are not pin compatible with original/Fuhua/Matias Alps. XM are supposed to be their own breed.
"Own breed"? I am not sure anyone will solve the Alps Vortex. I did come across a patent for an Alps clone switch last night, but, frigging typical, it told me nothing — it's too late in time to be of any use (1991) and it's not even assigned to a company!
The "Common Alps Clone" design has been sold by various companies since the 80s, including Xiang Min (XM), HiMAKE (now part of the Hua-Jie Group), and Taiwan Tai-Hao. By far and above the most common Alps clone is the HiMAKE/Hua-Jie AK-CN2. They also sold AK-C2/D2, which has been superseded by AK-CN2 (2), which is internally identical to the Xiang Min KSB-C, the clicky switch that Diatec and Ducky use. (Ducky also used KSB-N in the linear Ducky 1000-series keyboards.)
They're all pin compatible with original Alps/Fuhua switches. The Alps-style switches that are keycap compatible but not pin compatible include Taiwan Tai-Hao Aruz, KPT/TEC, Omron B3G-S, Omron Alps-style and SMK second generation Alps mount ("Monterey", if clicky).
Post by: bueller on Sat, 07 September 2013, 23:29:15
(http://i.imgur.com/Vt8oxgX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iNuKxdQ.jpg)
Post by: daerid on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:11:23
Post by: daerid on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:12:02
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 10 January 2014, 06:02:18
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 10 January 2014, 08:10:02
I have had 3-4 of them in the past, all with some defect, usually one or more dead keys. Now that I have a bag of orange Alps switches, I figured that I could repair one if I needed to get it back to proper condition.
I tested this one (it was dirty and yellowed, but I needed to see whether it was OK electrically) and all worked properly.
When I took it apart, I realized that it has pink Alps. I used to be confused between orange and salmon, since the orange is not particularly bright and I have bought actual salmon that was very colorful (I suppose that wild salmon tends toward red while farmed salmon tends to orange).
Anyway, here it is, open and still dirty, with blue and orange switches for comparison, with and without flash, since lighting always seems hard for me.
My dilemma is whether to clean it up, put it back together and keep it, clean it and sell it, or to harvest the switches and keep them or sell them.
If anybody is interested in buying the complete board or the switches, please send me a private message in the next couple of days. I will think about it through the weekend and decide by the beginning of the week.
Post by: terrpn on Fri, 10 January 2014, 12:01:42
Recently, I acquired an Apple Extended Keyboard with the intent of adding it to my personal collection.
I have had 3-4 of them in the past, all with some defect, usually one or more dead keys. Now that I have a bag of orange Alps switches, I figured that I could repair one if I needed to get it back to proper condition.
I tested this one (it was dirty and yellowed, but I needed to see whether it was OK electrically) and all worked properly.
When I took it apart, I realized that it has pink Alps. I used to be confused between orange and salmon, since the orange is not particularly bright and I have bought actual salmon that was very colorful (I suppose that wild salmon tends toward red while farmed salmon tends to orange).
Anyway, here it is, open and still dirty, with blue and orange switches for comparison, with and without flash, since lighting always seems hard for me.
My dilemma is whether to clean it up, put it back together and keep it, clean it and sell it, or to harvest the switches and keep them or sell them.
If anybody is interested in buying the complete board or the switches, please send me a private message in the next couple of days. I will think about it through the weekend and decide by the beginning of the week.
i actually prefer and am very fond of the aek, aek II's, etc.
you can still pick up fairly reasonable and are real tanks.
if i did not already own a salmon alps i would offer to buy- maybe somebody else that does not have a salmon alps would like?
seeing all the various alps you have why not mod into a hybrid alps board?
orange, salmon, blue and cream? how cool would that be...........
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 10 January 2014, 22:00:30
Recently, I acquired an Apple Extended Keyboard with the intent of adding it to my personal collection. [...] When I took it apart, I realized that it has pink Alps. I used to be confused between orange and salmon, since the orange is not particularly bright and I have bought actual salmon that was very colorful.I’m pretty sure the kind you have there is what gets called “salmon” (and I agree that’s a confusing name).
How does the feel compare to orange alps switches? I like the orange ones in some M0116/AEKs much better than the “cream” kind found in the AEK2. And since you seem to have a number of different types there, how does the feel compare to the blue ones?
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 10 January 2014, 22:10:23
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0ZjIV-q7Yj0/UpwzfAHFBvI/AAAAAAAAAKA/YX4paLGhj3Q/s1600/20131202_001.jpg)
SiiG Minitouch (with Chinese legends): No photos yet...
APC Clicker F-21 (ok it is not exactly proper Alps but it looks like Alps and also this photo was before it was refurbished) :p :
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AcuMvfW1kMU/UpwzwLcuavI/AAAAAAAAALU/mvfbhyDdQNw/s1600/20131202_022.jpg)
Which Alps keyboards have you loved over the years?None! I have tried very little Alps based. Maybe the Northgate Omnikey 101 would come close to feeling nice but she is broken (sadly).
Which ones do you use on a regular basis?APC Clicker F-21... because SiiG Minitouch is somewhat on a permanent borrow basis and Northgate Omnikey 101 needs repairs.
Which ones do you recommend for the community?Depending on size. Definitely would not really recommend APC Clicker because the feel as described by some members on the deskthority forums as inconsistent feel. Some keys would feel stiff and other keys would feel soft. It is not like Realforce's variable weight, it is much worse than that. Even after lubing the switches (via leaf springs) the feel is still inconsistent.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 11 January 2014, 18:51:05
How does the feel compare to orange alps switches? I like the orange ones in some M0116/AEKs much better than the “cream” kind found in the AEK2. And since you seem to have a number of different types there, how does the feel compare to the blue ones?
I do not use these regularly, from a cursory test there seems to be little difference between orange and pink. Currently I only have loose orange switches from a non-working AEK, and have not used a working orange AEK in a couple of years. I can't really tell you without doing a side-by-side comparison. Both types have their champions.
The dampened creams are very different. I like them pretty well, for what they are, but I like the "undampened" style better and prefer tactile switches overall.
Blue Alps are clicky and tactile, but lighter and smoother than whites. All the good Alps boards (with the exception of a very few early Northgates) are white, but they are just too heavy for me.
Post by: ricercar on Sat, 11 January 2014, 19:36:42
Can anyone say whether this might be XT or did Sun boxes use a special DIN5 connector? Bottom line: is there a converter somewhere for SunTouch to USB, or is this likely to be useful only for harvesting the switches and keycaps?
Post by: hasu on Sat, 11 January 2014, 20:31:56
If it is Sun(Type3/4/5) it will works with my converter. If you have Teensy around try it.
Type3/4/5 has same SUN serial protocol at least. I don't know about Type1/2.
Post by: lilky on Sun, 12 January 2014, 16:42:12
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:03:34
What converter are you using? If it's a passive converter, that might be your problem, otherwise chances are it's XT.
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to...what switch would you guys recommend to start off with?
Depends on what kinds of switches you like. I've only tried three, Creams, Whites, and Blacks, but of the three, Creams were my preferred. I've heard good things about Blue and Green Alps though. There needs to be an Alps switch try, but it's so hard to find different Alps it feels like.
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:05:16
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:09:45
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to.
The best are the hardest to find, and vice versa.
The 2 keyboards that are common and cheap are the Dell AT101 (black, tactile) and the Apple Extended Keyboard II (dampened cream, tactile but attenuated). These can be bought on ebay for $10-20 + shipping or found at salvage stores, yard sales, or thrift stores from time to time.
The Dell does not enjoy a very high reputation, but a good fresh one can be pretty nice. I have had several, and recently I got one that was horrible, far worse than ever before, and so don't give up immediately.
The Apple AEK2 is well thought-of by many people, but will require an ADB adapter which will cost $20 on ebay. They are also very prone to yellowing.
The first Apple Extended Keyboard has orange or pink aka salmon Alps which are more tactile and nicer, in my opinion.
I have never had any of the more exotic Alps such as yellow or green, and you are less likely to find them, anyway.
The clicky ones are what I like. White is relatively easy to find (look for a Focus 2001), but too stiff for my tastes. Blue reigns supreme but is not available in any modern board (except for a very few early Northgate Omnikeys) and will likely be pricey.
Post by: tuxsavvy on Sun, 12 January 2014, 19:21:21
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to...what switch would you guys recommend to start off with?
Definitely not APC Clicker based keyboards. I somewhat have noted most (if not all) of the APC Clicker that are floating out there on the Deskthority wiki. Cheap, yes they are (if you paid anything around or over USD$50 for one you are getting ripped off) but they are not the best examples of Alps switches. APC Clicker feel is definitely inconsistent and so it is hard to make very good use of fast(er) typing speeds and cleaning them can be a real pain along with some of the maintanenance that goes along with them.
Despite having touched very few Alps switches, I think the Northgate Omnikey series are formidable. At least for the majority of them the switches are more discrete than APC membrane, uses proper PCB backend (and not membrane sheet) therefore the feel maybe more consistent.
If you are looking for a more modern Alps keyboard. Matias produces some mechanical keyboards with Matias based (which is essentially similar to Alps) switches. I have no idea what typing on Matias switches would be like but at least there will be a vendor/manufacturer backing your keyboard should you have issues with Matias mechanical keyboards.
Post by: lilky on Mon, 13 January 2014, 12:17:44
Never tried an alps board before but I really want to.
The best are the hardest to find, and vice versa.
The 2 keyboards that are common and cheap are the Dell AT101 (black, tactile) and the Apple Extended Keyboard II (dampened cream, tactile but attenuated). These can be bought on ebay for $10-20 + shipping or found at salvage stores, yard sales, or thrift stores from time to time.
The Dell does not enjoy a very high reputation, but a good fresh one can be pretty nice. I have had several, and recently I got one that was horrible, far worse than ever before, and so don't give up immediately.
The Apple AEK2 is well thought-of by many people, but will require an ADB adapter which will cost $20 on ebay. They are also very prone to yellowing.
The first Apple Extended Keyboard has orange or pink aka salmon Alps which are more tactile and nicer, in my opinion.
I have never had any of the more exotic Alps such as yellow or green, and you are less likely to find them, anyway.
The clicky ones are what I like. White is relatively easy to find (look for a Focus 2001), but too stiff for my tastes. Blue reigns supreme but is not available in any modern board (except for a very few early Northgate Omnikeys) and will likely be pricey.
Oh wow, so many types of switches! It's a whole new world out here separate from MX or Topre...
Well, I guess I know what I'll be doing this year for mechanical keyboards...
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 13 January 2014, 13:31:01
Oh wow, so many types of switches! It's a whole new world out here separate from MX or Topre.
Alps lovers think that Cherries feel cheap and plasitcky.
Cherry lovers think that Alps feel wobbly.
For me, one of the most endearing traits of Alps is their high actuation point.
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 13 January 2014, 15:46:58
Oh wow, so many types of switches! It's a whole new world out here separate from MX or Topre.
Alps lovers think that Cherries feel cheap and plasitcky.
Cherry lovers think that Alps feel wobbly.
For me, one of the most endearing traits of Alps is their high actuation point.
exactly........
i love'em all, but for some reason am still more fond of alps- to each his/her own
alps are not real sexy like mx- keycaps, cases, alps no longer available (complicated unless you want simplified matias), those who prefer a smaller footprint i get it
am hopeful the IC on alps keycaps makes it over to a GB, but that one is still hanging- so we'll just wait and see
i'm not real technical- am more of a user, when you can go out and buy orange, salmon (pink), cream, white mechanical boards all day long if you shop for around 25 bux for those who are starting out that want the switch more than the bling it's a no brainer
of course i respect those who agree to disagree, but i know what works for me
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 13 January 2014, 15:52:18
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45879.0
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 15 January 2014, 19:56:01
I found a SiiG SunTouch, a MiniTouch wired for Sun boxes with some sort of blue ALPs (doesn't feel like my Chicony Montereys). It has a DIN5 connector, which is not apparently AT, since it doesn't convert to PS2 with my normal AT-PS2 adapter.
Can anyone say whether this might be XT or did Sun boxes use a special DIN5 connector? Bottom line: is there a converter somewhere for SunTouch to USB, or is this likely to be useful only for harvesting the switches and keycaps?
It would be interesting to know for certain — I didn't realise that was why it was called SunTouch Jr (and likewise the Chicony KB-5181/2 rebadged as the SunTouch K101).
Post by: illy865 on Sat, 18 January 2014, 13:30:51
The first Apple Extended Keyboard has orange or pink aka salmon Alps which are more tactile and nicer, in my opinion.
I've recently gone back into mechanical keyboards and I brought out my old AEK from the garage, got a ADB to USB adapter and it's working perfectly now. Going back to these Alps switches, the tactile response is awesome. I cleaned out the inside and bent back the switch actuators and the response is pretty much back to new. I'm typing better as a result and I feel like the response of the orange Alps even works well for my gaming purposes. Just glad this wasn't a victim of many years of spring cleaning.
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 14:11:11
[attachimg=1]
The switches, my camera has a dust detection system^^ :
[attachimg=2]
The ALPS PCB :
[attachimg=3]
Under a keycap :
[attach=5]
Sticker :
[attachimg=4]
It's not the best typing feeling I had, but in second place, just after BS model M, I would surely have prefered blue ALPS, but for 10 euro, not a so bad deal :)
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 15:06:58
Original black Alps switches (with slits) are pretty uncommon.
Post by: bcg on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:03:37
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
EDIT: PS - I got this board off of Craigslist, I was actually buying a IBM PC 5170 hoping to get a AT Model F (it had a silver label model M tho) and the guy threw in the Chicony board for $5 more :)
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:11:26
Post by: bcg on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:20:39
That's a 5161A. The 'A' was the NKRO series with blue Alps, Omron B3G-S and Mitsumi switch versions.
I stand corrected; as does my previous post :)
In other news I just check the board I'm typing on right now and it has black Alps with slits... they are rare you say?
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 16:27:17
That's why I'm so curious about kilogeek's keyboard. Most of those were salmon Alps, which for several years was sold as an alternative along with orange. I don't know what the difference is between the three tactile series. We now know that there are two more tactile Alps switches: grey or ivory (SKCMAF, contemporary with blue (SKCMAG) — not 100% sure on the colour from the photo alps.tw posted), and green (listed in a 1994 catalogue with a different force curve).
Post by: daerid on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:22:35
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
I'm soooooo excited for this (ErgoDox + Alps)
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:43:07
So that's got no model number, FCC ID, serial, anything? Any year on the PCB?
Original black Alps switches (with slits) are pretty uncommon.
Yes it does, but did not found any information on the web :
TYPE : KBU 1971
XPU LAR 43667
SKB 1971A-001
I believe this keyboard to be uncommon because the Bull company did not sell PCs for long (86 to 89) and mainly (or only ?) on french market, they were expensive and mainly government or big companies could afford these. They then bought Zenith Data Systems company thus no longer selling 'Bull Micral' PCs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith_Data_Systems ).
Did not see the year on the PCB, only could see one side, and switches are solded on the PCB and fixed on a thick metal plate in between... Also this PCB seems to have more ICs than on DELL 101 pics I've seen, making me think it could be one of the first series of this kind. Does someone knows which company designed these keyboards ? Not Dell, not SGI, not Bull, so who, ALPS ? Bull could not have bought these to Dell, it's made in Japan and it's a ALPS branded PCB...
[attachimg=1]
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:51:00
Built before 1989 and after 1988 (SKCMAP started in 1988).
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 17:51:01
Looks like yours would be 88 or 89, when combining the switch and PC date ranges.
I have a similar curiosity about the SMK second generation platform — a design similarly used by several companies, with no clear history.
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 18:13:26
This is the computer it was sold with : Bull Micral 200 - 1989
But as internet came to life in 1990 (I mean out of U.S. DOD) it's hard to find informations, although Deskauthority deals with Dell brand but they don't say Dell designed them, when you see many brands having the exact same plastic case models (rear of mine is 100% like SGI granite or DELL 101), IMO this model was made by another company and sold to DELL, SGI, Bull, ... but who and where ? IDK :p
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 18:53:10
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/dell_29858.html
(the steel plate shown here is just there to add weight)
My keycaps use 2 or 3 tinted plastics and they are reinforced, all the alt graph symbols are on front of keys, not top.
sorry for blured pics :
[attachimg=1][attach=2]
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 18:57:05
SMK second generation platform (http://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_second_generation_platform)
I am assuming that SMK made them all.
Dell AT101 keyboards were made by Alps USA and Silitek. Here's an early AT101:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/dell_43197.html
Label confirms US manufacture. The FCC grantee (GYI) is Alps Electric (USA) Inc.
I am guessing that Alps designed the keyboard themselves for someone (Bull maybe), and when other companies approached Alps for a keyboard, they decided to purchase an existing product to save the expense of having a new keyboard designed and tooled. It's cheaper to just have your company's logo placed onto an existing product than to have a whole new keyboard designed. It's only with designs such as the banana keyboard (Micral 200/AT101/Granite) that companies don't seem to care that they're shipping a distinctive keyboard that was not their design. Apple always had custom-designed keyboard made.
I don't know how the design got moved to Silitek though — did they sell the tooling, or did Silitek retool from scratch? I know that, with the AppleDesign keyboard, the Alps and NMB versions were very similar yet clearly different, so each company had tooled up independently with separate production lines.
Also, it looks like Alps USA used salmon Alps, while Silitek used black Alps, which is curious.
Silitek's FCC IDs are weird:
GYUM90SK 06/13/1997
GYUM91SK 10/11/1995
GYUM92SK 06/26/1995
GYUM93SK 10/28/1994
GYUM95SK 02/01/1994
GYUM96SK 09/09/1993
GYUM97SK 01/09/1992
GYUM98SK 11/06/1991
GYUM99SK 04/02/1991
Looks like M for mechanical, R for rubber dome.
The earliest one used for the Dell keyboard was the GYUM97SK, from 1992, which is exactly when orange and salmon Alps were last seen. I don't know if Alps forced the decision to move production to Silitek Taiwan, or whether some decision relating to this move led to the discontinuation of salmon and orange Alps. Tactile Alps were not that common, and by 1992 Apple had moved over to the damped switches. I don't know what GYUM99SK and GYUM98SK were; Google suggests GYUM98SK does not exist, and GYUM99SK is mentioned as a "SILITED" keyboard in some motherboard manual.
By the way, I've only used bamboo blacks (no slits) in my AT102W and they suck, but it may be that pine blacks (early, with slits) are OK.
As for the double-shot keycaps — that's another mystery: who made them? The moulding style is very distinctive.
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 19:40:34
I really have a tactile feedback and a firm shock when key is fully down (not like on rubber domes).
You may not see it on pics but they also added small black rubber pads under space bar and enter keys to make them a bit less noisy (I guess), you can see one of these on my 1st post, the black switches pic. Also, keycaps feel like heavy, even if they are not, exactly the feeling I had with my IBM model M. Forgot to say it's a 5 pins big DIN connector and a curled cable.
But taking a look at the PCB, for sure it's not NKRO.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 18 January 2014, 19:54:49
Keycaps may have been made anywhere following Bull requirements, even in France...
Those keycaps are fairly common, and the moulding technique is very distinctive. I've just checked MouseFan's site, and the only examples I could find were from the same keyboard:
Mitsubishi version: http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/sharpax.htm
HP version: http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/c1414a.htm
Toshiba examples:
http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/toshiba-t3100-t5200-t4711.html
Instead of stripes, the whole inside is the legend colour, with a row of square holes down each side. A single company is likely to have been responsible, but I have no idea who.
Most doubleshots seem to have been made by Tai-Hao, and they're still made to this day exactly as they were over 20 years ago.
The only thing I can say ATM is typing is a bit less clicky than on model M
They're not clicky switches, but you're right that they're loud. I've replaced most of the black Alps uppers in my AT102W with the uppers of blue Alps from an old Monterey keyboard.
I really have a tactile feedback and a firm shock when key is fully down (not like on rubber domes).
That sounds like pine blacks were superior, then. My AT102W is actually less tactile than a typical rubber dome. The switches really are horrible. The keyboard sounds nice, but feels bad.
I don't understand what MouseFan thinks changed when the slits disappeared (Google Translate can't deal with Chinese and Japanese to English), but something necessitated creating new moulds. Also, a lot of later white switches had the mould numbering hand-carved into the moulds, indicating cheaper production values; I've never seen this with blank switches though. I'm guessing that whatever they did, also destroyed the feel of the switches. It's possible that production was moved to Forward Electronics in Taiwan at this time, who were Alps's manufacturing partner for 30 years, and the company responsible for simplified Alps. This could have resulted in retooling and therefore new moulds.
It's all speculation though.
Post by: kilogeek on Sat, 18 January 2014, 22:53:26
So that's good news, meaning I could replace my keyset, even if this type of keycap is not the most common.
These black switches are definitely better than any even good dome I've tried, so as you said there may be 2 quality level. But maybe if you make me try blue switch I'll tell you black sucks. The only thing I can say is I like these 100x more than cherry linear switches (black or red) where you just have 0 feedback, only the spring force when you have to hold on a key for a while...
I must receive an almost new Compaq soon (10 euro, good deal), the one with trackball and cherry brown, will then know if I'm ALPS for ever or not^^
thanks :)
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sun, 19 January 2014, 07:11:56
I still believe that those keycaps all come from a single company, quite possibly Alps themselves.
At the moment, I am not aware that anyone has been keeping track of keycap style per keyboard; I just happen to recognise that style as I've seen it so many times before, but I don't have a list of where I've seen it, and likely companies to have made the keyboards, or whether any of the keyboards had switches that were not made by Alps.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Fri, 24 January 2014, 18:14:17
We're uncertain as to what happened with the Dell keyboards. There is a possibility that Silitek cloned it and Dell took their business away from Alps. It appears that the Silitek AT101 keyboards were on sale before Alps discontinued the KFCMEA/KFCLEA keyboard series. This is speculation; it's also possible that Alps licensed the design rights to Silitek, and that everything was conducted above board. All we know is that Silitek started selling keyboards that seemingly look identical to Alps "Big Foot" keyboards, but with reduced quality. I don't think I've ever taken mine apart to check the PCB.
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:26:47
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 27 February 2014, 18:41:30
Post by: niubio on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:06:32
I've read the whole thread. You guys have some fantastic units or even collections! Now I must try blue Alps :)
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:24:39
So in picked up an apple AEK with what appears to be white alps. My question is this, are the supposed to be clicky or just tactile?AEK or AEK II? I don’t know any AEKs with clicky switches, but it’s possible.
Most AEKs used orange tactile switches. Most AEK IIs used cream dampened tactile switches.
The “cream” color is pretty light, but cream sliders distinctly different from the white sliders.
It’s of course also possible that someone swapped the switches. :)
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:13:21
So in picked up an apple AEK with what appears to be white alps. My question is this, are the supposed to be clicky or just tactile?AEK or AEK II? I don’t know any AEKs with clicky switches, but it’s possible.
Most AEKs used orange tactile switches. Most AEK IIs used cream dampened tactile switches.
The “cream” color is pretty light, but cream sliders distinctly different from the white sliders.
It’s of course also possible that someone swapped the switches. :)
Well I just looked at it again and it is an AEKII. I have pulled a couple switches apart. I didn't take that close of a look at them. I just followed a link from Simple Q&A thread then to Ripsters guide. It is complicated I just don't remember if it had the 2 or the 4 legs on the leaf. Modifying this post as soon as it is posted to add a pic from my phone. To lazy to get the cord and move the file over.
[attach=1]
Here is a shot of it from the top before I tore into it.
[attach=2]
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 27 February 2014, 22:58:41
Well I just looked at it again and it is an AEKII. I have pulled a couple switches apart. I didn't take that close of a look at them.Okay, well the dampened switches are relatively quiet to type on, because the slider has a little piece of black rubber stuck in each side, which is what hits the plastic at the bottom or top of the switch housing (dampening the sound).
By contrast, clicky switches will have a metal leaf which makes a loud click when it springs back, after being released when the slider passes the actuation point (tactile switches have a similar leaf, but it doesn’t do the same kind of clicky snapping).
They’re pretty hard to get confused for one another, once you try typing on them.
Apparently later versions (~1995) of the dampened tactile switches have white colored sliders instead of cream (“ivory”) color: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_White_Damped
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Fri, 28 February 2014, 02:50:55
Post by: qnaal on Fri, 28 February 2014, 23:49:46
For parts or something- missing tilde and f2 keycaps, and the tilde's mount post is chipped.
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 28 February 2014, 23:54:59
I've got a beat-up focus 2001 keyboard, which I guess has alps-clone switches- could anyone tell me what it might be worth?
For parts or something- missing tilde and f2 keycaps, and the tilde's mount post is chipped.
Hit up the price check thread in classifieds. The fact that it's missing caps and is an Alps clone, however, will make a cheap board even cheaper.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 01 March 2014, 09:06:52
I've got a beat-up focus 2001 keyboard, which I guess has alps-clone switches
Does it have Windows keys? The later ones are OK but less desirable, the earlier ones have really nice multi-color keys.
Post by: qnaal on Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:31:11
I've got a beat-up focus 2001 keyboard, which I guess has alps-clone switches
Does it have Windows keys? The later ones are OK but less desirable, the earlier ones have really nice multi-color keys.
It has windows keys- no colors or anything just black doubleshot.
And the switches are white.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:40:06
That's from my assumption that they're Tai-Hao doubleshots, and from Tai-Hao only being able to pad print those keys presently.
The switches will presumably be the T1 type shown here (compare the numbering):
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001
Post by: qnaal on Sat, 01 March 2014, 14:12:26
You should find that the Windows and menu keys are pad printed, while the rest are doubleshot.Correct- I couldn't tell at first, because of the lack of a decal-like splotch, but the printing on those has a different texture from the rest of the board.
That's from my assumption that they're Tai-Hao doubleshots, and from Tai-Hao only being able to pad print those keys presently.
The switches will presumably be the T1 type shown here (compare the numbering):Yup- they each have four characters printed on them like that t1 picture.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001
"2F76" and "1H37" and whatnot.
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 01 March 2014, 14:55:11
And yes, Alps clones.
Post by: kilogeek on Sun, 02 March 2014, 19:28:02
I find it now much more a pleasure to use than the model M !
[attachimg=1]
Post by: simon_C on Sun, 02 March 2014, 22:34:09
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 02 March 2014, 22:38:44
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:02:34
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:06:37
I have a bowling ball with texture like that. It's funny because last week I just switched from a Model M to a Dell AT101W at work. I wouldn't say I prefer it to the Model M, but I like to change things up from time to time for variety.
did you lubbed your AT101 switches ? I recommand, you'll get 2x the pleasure to type !
(mine has the 1st gen complicated ALPS and was all lubbed silicon, awesome result)
None of my collection KBs have such a nice typing feeling, even my compaq g80-11800 (brown MX) sucks compare to this one !
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:39:50
what kind is best?
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:50:50
But I know RO-59 to be the best and I can't get it in France, maybe online shop...
I'll post here an ALPS lubbing guide because the one you may find on Deskthaurity is not top IMO,
need to take pics again to show exactly which parts must be lubbed for best result.
++
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 03 March 2014, 00:54:37
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 03 March 2014, 04:23:42
Here's one Deskthority post: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/pink-vs-orange-alps-t1181-30.html#p57053
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:29:44
[attachimg=1]
The guide is coming, I will start a thread just for it.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:38:15
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:53:54
Yours has certainly beat mine out of the park.
Great one too^^
But the best is to come : Desert Storm with epoxy and sand on a Model M , haha
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 09:56:36
enjoy !
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 03 March 2014, 10:04:49
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 10:52:25
FYI, it's lubing, not lubbing and lube, not lub.
Viens me parler en français tu fera moins le malin XD
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 03 March 2014, 12:55:56
Post by: kilogeek on Mon, 03 March 2014, 14:16:05
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 03 March 2014, 14:32:38
I did not mean you were hostile, but english is not my mother tongue so it always takes me more time to post things, mainly when using words I only recently learned : to lube = lubrifier, so you lube with lube ? correct ?In English, the the noun is ‘lubricant’ and the verb is ‘to lubricate’. These get shortened to ‘lube’ and ‘to lube’. The other forms would be ‘lubed’, ‘lubing’, etc.
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 03 March 2014, 14:35:19
I did not mean you were hostile, but english is not my mother tongue so it always takes me more time to post things, mainly when using words I only recently learned : to lube = lubrifier, so you lube with lube ? correct ?
Ah, ok. I haven't done much French anything in years, so I misread the tone of your comment. The language issue plus the fact that it's the impersonal internet can make things come off differently.
Yes, you lube with lube. So you will lube your keyboard, you are lubing your keyboard, you lubed your keyboard. It's one of those verbs where you don't add a second letter of the ending consonant when you conjugate.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 03 March 2014, 21:44:24
Post by: simon_C on Sat, 15 March 2014, 05:07:19
Post by: Shayde on Sat, 15 March 2014, 14:08:37
I'm now starting to get a bit of an itch to design an 84 key board with alps switches... i forgot how much i like typing on alps. They have a nice mechanical pop to them.
I'm the same, I've been day-dreaming about doing this, but have yet to make the commitment to start. The main thing for me is I love my back-lighting, and this makes the project considerably more complicated. So I'm not sure I would get enough enjoyment out of the board for the investment in time and money.
Post by: blackbox on Sat, 15 March 2014, 14:30:15
AT102W owner here. The ISO (102) layout seems very rare. Black complicated tactile ALPS. Currently looking for a complete ISO set of blank ALPS caps.Show Image(http://a.pomf.se/8Lz8.jpg)
Luckily I have an old broken AT102W with about 100 ALPS switches. I'd like to keep a few for when i need to perform surgery on mine (happened under the black caps), but if anyone needs one or two, I could perhaps take them off.
I have an AT102w too. What kind paint did you use to paint it?
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 15 March 2014, 14:51:30
I have an AT102w too. What kind paint did you use to paint it?
AT101Ws came in black, presumably 102s did also.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 20 May 2014, 19:48:22
I'm now starting to get a bit of an itch to design an 84 key board with alps switches... i forgot how much i like typing on alps. They have a nice mechanical pop to them.
About time to necro this thread.
My Filco Zero (thanks Moose!) now has blue Alps.
Post by: blackbox on Wed, 21 May 2014, 02:52:35
I'm now starting to get a bit of an itch to design an 84 key board with alps switches... i forgot how much i like typing on alps. They have a nice mechanical pop to them.
About time to necro this thread.
My Filco Zero (thanks Moose!) now has blue Alps.
Nice! How long did it take to switch it(question for Moose)?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:02:11
Nice! How long did it take to switch it?
I did the switch transplant. Removing the old ones is much harder than installing the new ones.
Depending on how efficient you are, I would suggest allowing an hour each for removing switches from the 2 boards and another hour for installing the new ones. If you are good and have good tools you might cut those times in half.
For me, when I have the thing completely apart, I use the opportunity to do a thorough cleaning, and often paint the plate, too.
Post by: blackbox on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:13:35
Nice! How long did it take to switch it?
I did the switch transplant. Removing the old ones is much harder than installing the new ones.
Depending on how efficient you are, I would suggest allowing an hour each for removing switches from the 2 boards and another hour for installing the new ones. If you are good and have good tools you might cut those times in half.
For me, when I have the thing completely apart, I use the opportunity to do a thorough cleaning, and often paint the plate, too.
nice. I switch swapped on two of my keyboards. one alps (dell at102w) and one cherry mx (CM QF XT). I have used a weller desoldering iron and I find it to be very easy to do with that tool.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:18:17
I switch swapped on two of my keyboards. one alps (dell at102w)
My tools are the cheapest possible crap, but they do OK.
I filled a Dell AT101W with orange Alps from an old Apple, and whoever had built the Dell had bent over *every single leg* of every switch and I am not kidding.
Afterwards it is a fantastically sweet board, however!
Post by: Grimey on Wed, 21 May 2014, 08:37:41
I filled a Dell AT101W with orange Alps from an old Apple, and whoever had built the Dell had bent over *every single leg* of every switch and I am not kidding.
This is also my experience with all 4 of the AT101Ws I have taken apart. It is quite annoying when you compare the work required to get these bent legged switches out compared to straight legged ones.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 21 May 2014, 09:36:54
I filled a Dell AT101W with orange Alps from an old Apple, and whoever had built the Dell had bent over *every single leg* of every switch and I am not kidding.
This is also my experience with all 4 of the AT101Ws I have taken apart. It is quite annoying when you compare the work required to get these bent legged switches out compared to straight legged ones.
I have done a few as well. Usually I find only 5%-10% bent over, randomly around the board.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 21 May 2014, 14:28:07
(1) Remove the solder as with any unbent lead; I use a soldapullt. Do this for the whole board.
(2) Stick the pointy bent end of a little bent dental pick under a bent-over lead, apply a soldering iron to the lead/pad, and pry upward a bit until the lead unsticks from the pad/hole. At this point the lead is detached from the pad but still bent over. Do this for all bent leads. Usually it doesn’t take much pressure to unstick the lead from the pad and this is very easy; sometimes it’s tricky when the pad wants to lift up off the board. Don’t let it.
(3) Use a pair of small snipe-nosed pliers to unbend each bent lead.
(4) Verify that all leads are properly unstuck from the circuit board, and remove any screws holding the circuit board to the plate, etc., then just pick the circuit board up, as it should be completely loose now.
(5) Carefully remove the switches from the plate. If the plate is tight, then for Alps switches try to push the little plastic "wings" in on one side and then on the other while pulling the switch out of the plate, as otherwise they have a tendency to break.
On average, a switch with bent-over leads takes about twice as much effort to remove as one where the leads are straight. This is annoying, but not impossibly bad.
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 12 August 2014, 04:00:34
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
Some high resolution pictures updated！！！
http://xiangce.baidu.com/picture/album/list/5a6c7908687be23f1d2ef80de074fe040d81c660?isscore=1#pic
[attach=1]
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:20:51
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
Pictures, or it didn't happen.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:23:50
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:03:02
Agreed, please show us some pictures :D
It's coming! ;D
Post by: calavera on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:06:52
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:21:04
The 1390131 always was my favorite, I am astonished that this did not get a different model number.
Are those keycaps all the same profile? Even more implausible!
Now we can start dreaming about 2-piece Alps keys with interchangeable caps!
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:30:25
ALPS fans :D IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86You have me pretty confused about how you made this picture. Could you please take a picture of one keycap from each row from the side and one keycap from each row from the bottom? (i.e. just pull them off and set them next to each other on a table)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:30:41
Post by: Parak on Tue, 12 August 2014, 20:42:55
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 12 August 2014, 21:24:30
That's definitely a mod. A nice mod, though.
That or they stuck a different keyboard into the case.
My thought too. Not the video, but the fakeness of it.
Post by: Jotokun on Tue, 12 August 2014, 22:34:53
Post by: Hak Foo on Wed, 13 August 2014, 00:18:51
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 00:49:42
The donor board is sort of interesting though... Costar-style stabilizers, and matching the 1390131 layout exactly.I’m also curious about that. Most of the Alps boards I’ve seen with costar-style stabilizers had a “bigass enter” key.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 01:07:59
The logo gives it away. It's not set into the plastic, but on top of it. Seems to be little more than one of those Model M case look-alikes with the IBM badge glued on top. The keycaps likely came from an IBM PS/2 luggable, since they often used ALPS or ALPS mount switches.No, the keycaps are definitely not the same as the ones on a P70/P75 luggable.
Post by: Grim Fandango on Wed, 13 August 2014, 01:46:38
They are however very heavy in my opinion. Because of this they are probably not for everyone. I still really like them, but eventually decided against using them as my daily driver. Some people on this forum described them as though they feel like browns. In my own opinion, this is very inaccurate.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 01:58:47
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 13 August 2014, 02:40:28
The top row keycaps are too tall, presumably to compensate for not having a curved PCB and plate. The legends are spot on, though.
Do want.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 03:20:19
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 13 August 2014, 03:24:30
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 13 August 2014, 18:13:00
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 13 August 2014, 20:07:15
So, is it agreed that this is a hoax?
The photo show inconsistencies in heights and fit, but it was pretty clever anyway!
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Wed, 13 August 2014, 21:33:59
Had me going, there for a while.Please be patient...
So, is it agreed that this is a hoax?
The photo show inconsistencies in heights and fit, but it was pretty clever anyway!
I will take pictures and upload all pictures, including key caps, circuit boards and case
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 21 August 2014, 14:31:16
Please be patient...Uh huh...
I will take pictures and upload all pictures, including key caps, circuit boards and case
Cute prank though. Kudos.
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Sun, 24 August 2014, 23:07:30
It's faked IBM M Keyboard that is made in by Taiwan
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Mon, 25 August 2014, 06:14:49
Post by: jadoob on Thu, 28 August 2014, 23:12:14
I recently bought an Omnikey 102 locally and decided to restore it. All the switches are good except one. So I decide why not try the only company that still makes Alps switches, Matias (seemed alot easier than finding a used parts-only board.)
The results are not even close. I had read someone on this forum that mentioned a hollow sound from the Matias clickies that thought maybe it was because the Matias boards were all PCB mounted. This is not the case, this keyboard the keys are mounted on a thick plate of steel. I'm sure they are great to type on but they are not drop-in replacements for complicated white alps for anyone doing restorations on those type of boards.
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 28 August 2014, 23:37:14
The same Matias switches sounded very different in a Dell AT101W (super-thick steel plate) and a Ducky 1008XM (thin plate and PCB). Neither sounded quite like the Simplified Whites on a like-new Focus 2001.
I will also suggest wear and dirt and age-- if one switch is fully defunct, others may have a fair bit of mileage on them.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 29 August 2014, 00:26:29
The results are not even close. I had read someone on this forum that mentioned a hollow sound from the Matias clickies that thought maybe it was because the Matias boards were all PCB mounted. This is not the case, this keyboard the keys are mounted on a thick plate of steel. I'm sure they are great to type on but they are not drop-in replacements for complicated white alps for anyone doing restorations on those type of boards.Matias clicky switches feel somewhat similar to complicated Alps switches, but they definitely don’t sound the same. This is because they have only two little pieces of metal for the actual switch contact, instead of a very complicated switchplate assembly. I still like them though.
Post by: absyrd on Sat, 30 August 2014, 07:11:42
Chicony KB 7000. Complicated whites. Used and loved it for many years!
Don't ask me how, but I lost the top part of the case when I moved. :'(
Probably just going to snatch all the switches out of it and grab the doubleshots as I don't use it anymore due to sheer size.
Post by: jameslr on Sat, 30 August 2014, 12:59:21
(http://i.imgur.com/IakiNUZ.jpg)
Full album:
http://imgur.com/a/sYdzk/all
Post by: dustinhxc on Mon, 01 September 2014, 09:39:58
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6bYBr3L.jpg)
sup
Damn, love this orange.. :thumb: Do you still have it?
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Mon, 08 September 2014, 19:14:46
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 08 September 2014, 19:18:54
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p
That is one wonky looking board. Love it. How do you like the Yellow Alps?
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Mon, 08 September 2014, 19:35:20
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p
That is one wonky looking board. Love it. How do you like the Yellow Alps?
New Alps board is trustworthy, this yellow board is very very smooth.
I want to get a ALPS blue board, but it's a pity that I couldn't find it. :(
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 09 September 2014, 04:26:35
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :pOMG, I would love to have one of these. Lucky Japanese people get all the good stuff. In the west the people making decisions about keyboard design for big computer companies are lazy and cheap.
If you know of any others, I’m sure Jesse (Obra) of keyboard.io would love to buy one.
Post by: yasuo on Tue, 14 October 2014, 02:28:47
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :p:eek: magnefecent, i interest get one sym sgg vers. like hasu have :p
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 23 December 2014, 22:21:39
All swithes are ALPS SKCL grey with LED in entire PCB
^-^
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 23 December 2014, 22:28:32
New ALPS board!!!
All swithes are ALPS SKCL grey with LED in entire PCB
^-^
Not gonna lie, that's badass and I'm jealous. What board is that? And how do the Greys compare to Green and Yellow Alps?
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 23 December 2014, 22:59:07
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 23 December 2014, 23:20:41
short white switchplate,no logo,slits
The board on the back of was printed "ALPS 56AAA1165F SP-80"
=====
sry, I made a mistake. All switches have a logo
Post by: hasu on Tue, 23 December 2014, 23:43:40
Looks really nice.
Post by: mr.squishy on Wed, 24 December 2014, 00:05:04
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 24 December 2014, 10:42:59
Slightly heavier than the Yellow switch
When you say "slightly heavier", it should be 50% heavier (88 cN vs 59 cN according to the 1994 catalogue) — does that seem correct to you?
I've yet to see anyone report that the grey one feels as heavy as the catalogue says that it should, but I don't think anyone's even estimated the weight yet (stacking coins is enough to get a ball park estimate). I don't know that there isn't more than one linear grey, either :-)
Also, you say "no logo" — some definitely have a logo. Are the some with a logo and some without? I can't tell from the photos.
Post by: Zoli on Sun, 13 September 2015, 06:21:47
Had it around, took it out , cleaned it, now it is back serving, fully functioning. All keys working. It feels good to type on it :)
The only problem seemed to be the Space key sometimes not working, took a look and found out that it was actually a fabrication defect. One pin was superficially flooded with solder, it loosened (center of image, pin on the right).
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
[attach=4][attach=5][attach=6]
Soldered it, now it is perfect.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 13 September 2015, 08:21:07
Well, here is my new-old Dell
The yellowed space bar leads me to believe that you probably have the PBT caps. If so, they are quite desirable by themselves.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 13 September 2015, 08:39:24
Post by: Zoli on Sun, 13 September 2015, 08:58:36
Well, here is my new-old Dell
The yellowed space bar leads me to believe that you probably have the PBT caps. If so, they are quite desirable by themselves.
They are PBT caps indeed :) The whole thing feels massive as a tank and works just fine.
The layout is unusual though, I can not make it work. Not much of annoyance, Dvorak layout works as expected. If anyone of you have an idea about the layout settings needed for English on Debian (I'm on Wheezy), let me know please, thanks!
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 15 September 2015, 01:45:47
were so few made? or are they just so unpopular? because boards with tactile alps pop up everywhere..
Post by: Zoli on Tue, 15 September 2015, 02:20:32
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 15 September 2015, 08:03:46
been searching the webs for hours searching a linear complicated alps board,
Searches for ancient obscure Alps boards take weeks or months, not hours.
I think that a lot of early Zeniths had linear greens, which are highly prized.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 15 September 2015, 16:46:45
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121747977710
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111761904156
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 17:32:59
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 17:40:07
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 15 September 2015, 17:48:44
There are a at least a couple of green Alps boards currently on US ebay, but they’re pretty steep in price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121747977710
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111761904156
ZKB-5s came in Yellow and Green Alps (I've only seen Yellow). Did they pull a key for you? It would suck for someone to buy it and get Yellow instead of Green, especially at that price.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:36:33
This may be a dumb question, but what makes a linear switch better/worse than the others? I mean, it's linear. Smoothness, maybe?
As a huge broad oversimplification, typists like tactility so that they know when they have activated their character.
Gamers like linear switches because they can be faster when pressing multiple times in quick succession.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 19:38:05
This may be a dumb question, but what makes a linear switch better/worse than the others? I mean, it's linear. Smoothness, maybe?
As a huge broad oversimplification, typists like tactility so that they know when they have activated their character.
Gamers like linear switches because they can be faster when pressing multiple times in quick succession.
Sorry, my question wasn't clear. What makes one type of linear switch (say, green Alps) better than another linear switch (e.g., MX Blacks)?
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:10:24
This may be a dumb question, but what makes a linear switch better/worse than the others? I mean, it's linear. Smoothness, maybe?
As a huge broad oversimplification, typists like tactility so that they know when they have activated their character.
Gamers like linear switches because they can be faster when pressing multiple times in quick succession.
Sorry, my question wasn't clear. What makes one type of linear switch (say, green Alps) better than another linear switch (e.g., MX Blacks)?
Green Alps, to me at least, are smoother and are less wobbly through the throw than MX Black. They also have a more pleasant weight.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:41:09
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:49:59
Totally agree with nubbinator. I'd rather have Green Alps over any MX-mount switch. Although Gateron Blacks is making me think twice before saying that
I've got a board arriving tomorrow with Gateron Blacks. If I don't like them, I'm writing off linears for good.
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:56:56
Green Alps, to me at least, are smoother and are less wobbly through the throw than MX Black. They also have a more pleasant weight.
right!
i used to own a zenith with green alps, and cherry mx switches have never felt as satisfying to me. they feel somewhat scratchy and plastic-y, in comparison.
One of these days I'm going to decide if I want to sell, cannibalize, or keep my three green alps boards. It is hard to pin down a fair price on the ZKB-2.
are all three ZKB2 boards? :-X
if you ever decide to sell one, i'd like to know! :p
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:15:20
Green Alps, to me at least, are smoother and are less wobbly through the throw than MX Black. They also have a more pleasant weight.
right!
i used to own a zenith with green alps, and cherry mx switches have never felt as satisfying to me. they feel somewhat scratchy and plastic-y, in comparison.One of these days I'm going to decide if I want to sell, cannibalize, or keep my three green alps boards. It is hard to pin down a fair price on the ZKB-2.
are all three ZKB2 boards? :-X
if you ever decide to sell one, i'd like to know! :p
Yeah. They were used by some old equipment that my lab was throwing away, so they sort of disappeared on the way to the dumpster. Funny how that happens.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:16:37
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 15 September 2015, 22:33:01
I think I am about to begin my journey into the world of Alps. I'll be sure to bug you experts with all of my questions in the future. For now, it's time to start up the research.
We discussed switch comparisons in the Alps 60% thread the other day if you want to know more. I compiled a list of Chyros' Alps reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854189#msg1854189), CPTBadass linked his reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854207#msg1854207), and Chyros himself offered some succinct opinions (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854281#msg1854281). You might find it interesting/useful.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 16 September 2015, 03:53:40
Thanks man. I'll check it out.I think I am about to begin my journey into the world of Alps. I'll be sure to bug you experts with all of my questions in the future. For now, it's time to start up the research.
We discussed switch comparisons in the Alps 60% thread the other day if you want to know more. I compiled a list of Chyros' Alps reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854189#msg1854189), CPTBadass linked his reviews (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854207#msg1854207), and Chyros himself offered some succinct opinions (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74524.msg1854281#msg1854281). You might find it interesting/useful.
Post by: nuclearsandwich on Sat, 21 November 2015, 15:19:31
Post by: ctm on Sat, 21 November 2015, 15:34:46
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 21 November 2015, 16:01:18
I've been afk for like six months, what Alps projects have rolled out recently?The Alps Party 60% GB by BlueNalgene with hasu's PCBs, Matias switches and stabilizers, plates designed by Blue and me.
njbair's Alpine Winter DCS keycap group buy.
I entered the world of ALPS with KBP V60 with Matias quiet switches. I totally love it! I find its tactile feedback more appealing to me than Cherry. It's my favorite switch so far. I might try some vintage ALPS in the future but I feel ambivalent on that. Original ALPS are about 20 years old in average and switches do wear out over time. If my favorite switches die and I can't find replacement for it, that will be very sad...I'm right there with you. I've tried several kinds of vintage Alps, and I like my Quiet Clicks as much or more than any of them.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 21 November 2015, 19:29:09
I entered the world of ALPS with KBP V60 with Matias quiet switches. I totally love it! I find its tactile feedback more appealing to me than Cherry. It's my favorite switch so far. I might try some vintage ALPS in the future but I feel ambivalent on that. Original ALPS are about 20 years old in average and switches do wear out over time. If my favorite switches die and I can't find replacement for it, that will be very sad...In addition to what's been mentioned, check out badwrench's Infinity modifier set (the first ever successful Alps GB, and my inspiration for Alpine Winter) and koalapear's Monarch LHTK custom. And Massdrop has had two successful buys for Tai Hao Alps keycaps in WoB, Dolch, and Olivetti colorways. Also, Matias is very close to offering thick PBT dyesub replacement sets.
So lots, really.
Post by: ctm on Sat, 21 November 2015, 20:07:08
I am really excited about Matias's PBT. I check that thread like once a day :cool:I entered the world of ALPS with KBP V60 with Matias quiet switches. I totally love it! I find its tactile feedback more appealing to me than Cherry. It's my favorite switch so far. I might try some vintage ALPS in the future but I feel ambivalent on that. Original ALPS are about 20 years old in average and switches do wear out over time. If my favorite switches die and I can't find replacement for it, that will be very sad...In addition to what's been mentioned, check out badwrench's Infinity modifier set (the first ever successful Alps GB, and my inspiration for Alpine Winter) and koalapear's Monarch LHTK custom. And Massdrop has had two successful buys for Tai Hao Alps keycaps in WoB, Dolch, and Olivetti colorways. Also, Matias is very close to offering thick PBT dyesub replacement sets.
So lots, really.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 22 November 2015, 04:07:07
Post by: Jokrik on Sun, 22 November 2015, 04:43:37
Hello brother can i ask you what custom tkl that support alps other than kingsaver and orion v2?. Gonna sell my hhkb and 55g topre because that great SKCM Blue
Give this a check
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77084.0
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 22 November 2015, 05:13:25
nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply manHello brother can i ask you what custom tkl that support alps other than kingsaver and orion v2?. Gonna sell my hhkb and 55g topre because that great SKCM Blue
Give this a check
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77084.0
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 22 November 2015, 07:42:57
I've also got an IBM with SKCC Greens and an Apple M0110 with SKCC Cream.
nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply man
You're probably looking for the KBP V80.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 22 November 2015, 10:07:04
Can't believe I only just now found this thread. Nearly all of my keyboards use Alps, including a new-old French ANSI layout NeXT, KBP V60, Apple M0116, another M0116...He's looking for an Aluminum custom. I can't think of any others, but I've heard murmurs about an Orion v3 coming soon.
I've also got an IBM with SKCC Greens and an Apple M0110 with SKCC Cream.nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply man
You're probably looking for the KBP V80.
Post by: grav3serker on Mon, 23 November 2015, 01:06:43
Can't believe I only just now found this thread. Nearly all of my keyboards use Alps, including a new-old French ANSI layout NeXT, KBP V60, Apple M0116, another M0116...I came across your eBay store looking for Alps boards. You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you? I'm looking for one so I can test out my M0116! :thumb:
I've also got an IBM with SKCC Greens and an Apple M0110 with SKCC Cream.nah man not so interested in that style but thanks for the reply man
You're probably looking for the KBP V80.
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 23 November 2015, 02:05:17
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 23 November 2015, 07:01:31
I came across your eBay store looking for Alps boards. You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you? I'm looking for one so I can test out my M0116! :thumb:
I do have one that I'm not really looking to part with, though I'll probably be making some arduino based converters soon. I already have one flashed, I just have to cut down one of my ADB cables or solder on an ADB port.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 23 November 2015, 07:55:42
You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you?
If you like old Apple gear, you should have one of these lying around for testing purposes:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-ADB-to-USB-adapter-for-Apple-Mac-/181936558619?hash=item2a5c43921b:g:t78AAOSwLzdWTfWa
Post by: grav3serker on Mon, 23 November 2015, 13:34:30
Thanks! I must've missed this one. I've been looking for a used one.You wouldn't happen to have any spare ADB to USB cables, would you?
If you like old Apple gear, you should have one of these lying around for testing purposes:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-ADB-to-USB-adapter-for-Apple-Mac-/181936558619?hash=item2a5c43921b:g:t78AAOSwLzdWTfWa
Post by: jonathanyu on Mon, 23 November 2015, 22:27:27
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 02:55:42
Post by: chyros on Wed, 25 November 2015, 03:14:44
how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps gameIf you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 03:18:38
thats the problem im searching for the best and that is the blue alps how much do you think for a donor board?how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps gameIf you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 25 November 2015, 03:39:16
At least $100. Blue Alps don't come cheap because everyone knows their reputation. You might want to consider a more entry-level Alps board to see if you even like them at all.thats the problem im searching for the best and that is the blue alps how much do you think for a donor board?how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps gameIf you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 25 November 2015, 05:08:22
At least $100. Blue Alps don't come cheap because everyone knows their reputation. You might want to consider a more entry-level Alps board to see if you even like them at all.thats the problem im searching for the best and that is the blue alps how much do you think for a donor board?how do i start searching for alps? im new to this alps gameIf you like clicky switches, start with a board with white Alps in it, they're pretty good and easy to get. Just make sure to ask for a shot with a cap off because many Alps boards could come with several types of switch.
Yes, and they are notoriously hard to find, at any price. My recommendation would be to buy a Focus FK-2001, which will have white Alps. White aren't quite as nice as blue, but still much better than black Alps to most people. Buying a Dell AT-101W is good, too, but it will come with the less desirable black Alps.
Or you could get a KBParadise V60MTS (60%) or V80MTS (TKL), with your choice of Matias switches - Click, Quiet Click (tactile), or Linear.
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:40:37
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:44:14
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:51:41
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:53:53
I'm on the hunt for those Matias Quiet Clicks :cool:You can buy it on their website right?
Post by: njbair on Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:59:18
I believe so. I've bought them from mechanicalkeyboards.com before as well.I'm on the hunt for those Matias Quiet Clicks :cool:You can buy it on their website right?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 25 November 2015, 09:08:37
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 25 November 2015, 09:11:46
But what board do I put them in? :eek:Buy a new one :p :p
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 25 November 2015, 09:16:46
But what board do I put them in? :eek:
You can help me with this one again https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44576.msg1947363#msg1947363
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 26 November 2015, 03:38:26
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 26 November 2015, 09:39:38
I would like to appreciate Alps.
Good ones are really good and bad ones are really bad.
Stated another way: good Alps are better than good Cherries but bad Cherries are better than bad Alps.
Post by: Lepidus on Thu, 26 November 2015, 10:50:08
Desoldered all of them, cleaned, lubed and the feel improved a lot, but the tactile bump and clickyness were still underwhelming.
Then I took the clicky leaf and bent it. Now it feels pretty good, very tactile and very clicky, a little bit heavier tho.
Hope it lasts.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 November 2015, 05:00:40
Stated another way: good Alps are better than good Cherries but bad Cherries are better than bad Alps.I can’t support this. I’ve seen Cherry boards that were just as unusable as the worst Alps board.
30-year-old Alps boards seem to more often be in extremely poor condition than 30-year-old MX boards, but take any keyboard, throw the box away, put it in a pile with 50 other keyboards, pour a bucket of dirt on it, and then wait 20 years, and you can get truly horrible results.
Post by: wakko on Sun, 29 November 2015, 18:08:16
Post by: Yoe on Tue, 01 December 2015, 06:53:38
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...
Nice dye job! What kind/color dye did you use?
Post by: grav3serker on Wed, 02 December 2015, 00:03:09
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...That's sexy. I would love to have a board like that!
Post by: wakko on Wed, 02 December 2015, 00:30:13
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...
Nice dye job! What kind/color dye did you use?
It's iDye Poly turqoise. Dye did come out quiet nice.
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...That's sexy. I would love to have a board like that!
I do enjoy this board :)
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 02 December 2015, 01:29:25
[attach=1]
Need to get a better picture... Anyway, I'll be removing the board at some point and making a case for it (with a Teensy), but will keep it intact so I can swap it back into the machine. I may even make a ribbon cable extension so I can plug it into the mainboard, but keep it in my custom case. It feels very nice to type on, even the "tophat" caps feel good.
I also have an Alpsulator, but the clones in that feel very poor in comparison.
Post by: sean on Wed, 02 December 2015, 21:38:43
Alps64 with salmon and white/orange hybrid switches ...
Nice dye job! What kind/color dye did you use?
It's iDye Poly turqoise. Dye did come out quiet nice.
What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 03 December 2015, 07:24:57
What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453
Post by: sean on Thu, 03 December 2015, 12:11:34
What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453
Just what I needed, thanks. I'll probably end up really screwing the caps up but it's worth a try.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 03 December 2015, 12:21:36
What's the process of dying the caps with iDye?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453
That is probably one of my favorite threads on this site. It came from a user that never really posted much, but the quality and rigor are just amazing.
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 05:51:50
Here's some of my works.
1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
[attachimg=1]
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.
2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
[attachimg=2]
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)
3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
[attachimg=3]
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.
Post by: Lepidus on Mon, 07 December 2015, 06:06:13
3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.
Wow, that split one looks really awsome. Please post more pics.
Post by: zombimuncha on Mon, 07 December 2015, 06:13:29
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.
Here's some of my works.
1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.
2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)
3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.
Dammit, now I need to change my pants!
But seriously, those are some spectacular keyboards you have there. Thanks for sharing!
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 06:24:07
Dammit, now I need to change my pants!
But seriously, those are some spectacular keyboards you have there. Thanks for sharing!
Wow, that split one looks really awsome. Please post more pics.
Thanks guys, here's some more pics I just took.
Here's more on kbdlab gallery, It's built with Cherry MX Black with 60g customized spring.
http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205&mid=board_Lsno50
Post by: Jokrik on Mon, 07 December 2015, 10:16:49
So sexy...Dammit, now I need to change my pants!
But seriously, those are some spectacular keyboards you have there. Thanks for sharing!Wow, that split one looks really awsome. Please post more pics.
Thanks guys, here's some more pics I just took.
Here's more on kbdlab gallery, It's built with Cherry MX Black with 60g customized spring.
http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?document_srl=3152205&mid=board_Lsno50
Too sexy....
Pants wet.........
So wet.....
Post by: jerue on Mon, 07 December 2015, 10:52:08
3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.
dam son.jpg
because DAMN SON
Post by: E3E on Mon, 07 December 2015, 11:14:15
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.
Here's some of my works.
1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.
2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)
3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.
Are you the one who created that split keyboard, the VE.A?
Jeez, and now I find out that it is Alps compatible. Simply amazing and I'm incredibly jelly! That's such a cool custom!
Might finally have another custom aside from the Octagon I'm lusting for now. :P
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 11:22:46
I use broken vintage alps keyboards for my custom keyboard.
Here's some of my works.
1. alpetit II : Alps Salmon Pink Switch from Dell AT101
acrylic housing + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
It's no good for me. I don't use it. Switches are too damaged, I just assembled this for sample shots. What a waste.
2. alpetit II : Alps Plate Spring Switch from IBM 5576-001 and Keycaps from Apple M0115 + M0116
acrylic housing + 1.2T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
One of my favorite. The clicky sounds and tactile feeling are so addictive. (I replaced housing with red one after took youtube video stream.)
3. VE.A : Alps Green Linear Switch from Zenith ZKB-2 and Keycaps from Apple M3501 + M0116
CNC aluminium Armor + CNC Poly Carbonate Frame + 1.5T STS mounting plate.
(Attachment Link)
This is my weapon of choice. Just perfect for my taste.
Alps green linear switch is my favorite.
It has subtle tactile feeling even it's designed as a linear mechanism.
Pressure is not that light, but bouncy.
I coated its slider with krytox lubs, feels a little soaked but smooth.
Are you the one who created that split keyboard, the VE.A?
Jeez, and now I find out that it is Alps compatible. Simply amazing and I'm incredibly jelly! That's such a cool custom!
Might finally have another custom aside from the Octagon I'm lusting for now. :P
Yes I am.
I heard that my works is posted sometimes here at GH, So I wondered how do you guys think about it.
I got really good feedback from you.
Now I regret why I didn't joined GH a year and half ago when I started custom keyboard hobby.
You know late is way better than never. :)
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 07 December 2015, 11:53:15
Post by: E3E on Mon, 07 December 2015, 12:02:33
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.
Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.
Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?
Sorry for all the questions. :)
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 19:18:26
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.
Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.
Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?
Sorry for all the questions. :)
Not at all E3E. :)
My new PCB (Vergo type.T-II) is Cherry MX / Alps compatible and in-switch backlighting is all available also.
But because of backlighting, when it comes to alps there is one critical point.
Old stepped style Alps capslock is not fit on VTT2, I couldn't place switch pads for alps for that damn stem position. It's not at cherry's vintage, nor oem's centered position, it's between them and alps pads cannot be placed... I tried to flip upside-down thing but no luck, LED pads is all over the positions.
My other PCB for example alpetit, is certainly fit all of AT101, AT101W, AEK M3501(M0115 also).
I'm trying to solve this problem on my next PCB, but well... :)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 07 December 2015, 20:41:50
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.
Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.
Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?
Sorry for all the questions. :)
Not at all E3E. :)
My new PCB (Vergo type.T-II) is Cherry MX / Alps compatible and in-switch backlighting is all available also.
But because of backlighting, when it comes to alps there is one critical point.
Old stepped style Alps capslock is not fit on VTT2, I couldn't place switch pads for alps for that damn stem position. It's not at cherry's vintage, nor oem's centered position, it's between them and alps pads cannot be placed... I tried to flip upside-down thing but no luck, LED pads is all over the positions.
My other PCB for example alpetit, is certainly fit all of AT101, AT101W, AEK M3501(M0115 also).
I'm trying to solve this problem on my next PCB, but well... :)
Thank you, zefyr. :)
That sounds great! I love MX + Alps PCB designs. Yes, I have noticed this too. It seems that stepped Caps Lock keys on Alps keyboards are between the Cherry style and Non-stepped. I found this out when I was working on my project for a hotswappable backlit Alps keyboard (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.msg1952047#msg1952047). Though designing a custom PCB is infinitely more awesome.
I can't quite recall how it was done on the Eagle's PCB, but I will say that the pads for the Alps-stepped Caps lock position were so strange, that I didn't notice them. They just looked like PCB-mount leg holes for Cherry MX, but then I realized it was for Alps. I know this doesn't help much!
Here is an image of the position (I missed it, so I didn't add sockets to it at this point), it's circled in green on the right side of the picture. My camera isn't that great so it's a bit fuzzy. :(
(http://puu.sh/lNqRR/942e7c1ec6.jpg)
Not sure if it can spark any ideas, but I do hope you can get that position figured out! If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Your board is great as is, but if you can solve this problem, that'd be even better. :D
Post by: zefyr on Mon, 07 December 2015, 22:35:14
I love it. I'd be interested in one if they were sold.
Likewise! Though with the Octagon v2 coming around, I'd explode if the two buys were close together.
Zefyr, are the PCBs Alps and Cherry MX compatible by default, or do you have separate PCBs for Alps and Cherry? If the Alps PCB is separate, does it allow for in-switch backlighting?
Sorry for all the questions. :)
Not at all E3E. :)
My new PCB (Vergo type.T-II) is Cherry MX / Alps compatible and in-switch backlighting is all available also.
But because of backlighting, when it comes to alps there is one critical point.
Old stepped style Alps capslock is not fit on VTT2, I couldn't place switch pads for alps for that damn stem position. It's not at cherry's vintage, nor oem's centered position, it's between them and alps pads cannot be placed... I tried to flip upside-down thing but no luck, LED pads is all over the positions.
My other PCB for example alpetit, is certainly fit all of AT101, AT101W, AEK M3501(M0115 also).
I'm trying to solve this problem on my next PCB, but well... :)
Thank you, zefyr. :)
That sounds great! I love MX + Alps PCB designs. Yes, I have noticed this too. It seems that stepped Caps Lock keys on Alps keyboards are between the Cherry style and Non-stepped. I found this out when I was working on my project for a hotswappable backlit Alps keyboard (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.msg1952047#msg1952047). Though designing a custom PCB is infinitely more awesome.
I can't quite recall how it was done on the Eagle's PCB, but I will say that the pads for the Alps-stepped Caps lock position were so strange, that I didn't notice them. They just looked like PCB-mount leg holes for Cherry MX, but then I realized it was for Alps. I know this doesn't help much!
Here is an image of the position (I missed it, so I didn't add sockets to it at this point), it's circled in green on the right side of the picture. My camera isn't that great so it's a bit fuzzy. :(Show Image(http://puu.sh/lNqRR/942e7c1ec6.jpg)
Not sure if it can spark any ideas, but I do hope you can get that position figured out! If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Your board is great as is, but if you can solve this problem, that'd be even better. :D
Thanks man, I saw your job. Really impressive!
Here's the problem with caps that I remember.
Old alps caps position is about center between cherry OEM position (center of 1.75) and cherry stepped position (center of 1.25); yeh - 1.5 position.
It's no problem when switch is cherry, two reeds of switch is far enough (Y axis). but alps is not, it's damn right there. Gap between reeds is only 0.5mm. it cannot be placed 1.25/1.5/1.75 at the same time.
I designed another PCB series named alpetit - 60% only for alps switches, no pads for Cherry MX.
And same problem 1.25/1.5/1.75 happen's here too. but it can be done by placing 1.5 position pads upside-down, since it has no in-switch LED pads.
But your work is so encouraging! I'm gonna work on breaking that damn problem. I wish I can solve it.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 08 December 2015, 01:23:10
Thanks man, I saw your job. Really impressive!
Here's the problem with caps that I remember.
Old alps caps position is about center between cherry OEM position (center of 1.75) and cherry stepped position (center of 1.25); yeh - 1.5 position.
It's no problem when switch is cherry, two reeds of switch is far enough (Y axis). but alps is not, it's damn right there. Gap between reeds is only 0.5mm. it cannot be placed 1.25/1.5/1.75 at the same time.
I designed another PCB series named alpetit - 60% only for alps switches, no pads for Cherry MX.
And same problem 1.25/1.5/1.75 happen's here too. but it can be done by placing 1.5 position pads upside-down, since it has no in-switch LED pads.
But your work is so encouraging! I'm gonna work on breaking that damn problem. I wish I can solve it.
Aww, I am glad I could help encourage you! I really hope that you find a solution to the Caps Lock issue and figure out how to implement it in your PCB designs. Your work is fantastic. I had never known of it before now. :)
Could it possibly work if the pad holes are reduced for the 1.5 stepped Caps Lock position? From what it sounds like you're saying, it's that the pads start running into each other because of their diameter.
Hopefully someone more adept than I am at understanding PCB design can assist you in sorting this issue so that your boards have as much cap compatibility as possible. :D Good luck, zefyr, and thanks for deciding to join GeekHack.
We definitely all appreciate another talented Korean custom maker joining our forum.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 08 December 2015, 01:53:05
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:03:46
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?
That would be to put those beauties onto something
(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)
Post by: njbair on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:11:03
So Alps people can you guide me?Are you looking for a full-size?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?
That would be to put those beauties onto somethingShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:11:17
So Alps people can you guide me?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?
That would be to put those beauties onto somethingShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)
A Hasu 60% Alps PCB would be your best bet! It supports pretty much every layout you could ever desire.
If you can't find one of those, I know the V60-MTS allows an ISO layout though you would be SOL for the bottom row, as it only supports the modern standard 6.25u layout.
Getting a bit more into the limited territory, you have the Leeku MXAlps 3000 board meant as a G80-3000 replacement PCB, I think? Only the earlier versions had support for Alps.
Then there's the Duck Eagle and Viper. No ISO support. I don't think Leeku's had ISO support either.
There's another Leeku Alps PCB that's more recent, but I forget the name of it. L3 Alps? or Alphas? I dunno.
Into even less compatible territories, you have the Infinity ErgoDox and the Infinity keyboard that also take Alps.
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:12:28
So Alps people can you guide me?Are you looking for a full-size?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?
That would be to put those beauties onto somethingShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)
Nope, just somewhere I could put those on, like a WKL TKL, a 60% with 1.5|1|1.5 bottom row ...
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:24:26
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:30:58
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69740.0
with a 1.5+1+1.5 spc7 1.5+1+1.5 bottom row.
Hopefully there's extras :o
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:40:35
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:41:05
If you can wait a couple months, the JD45 will be Alps compatible, too.
But not iso compatible iirc ;)
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:43:36
Well, the Enter is only 1.75u, so it should be equally bad/good for both ANSI and ISO users. :-*If you can wait a couple months, the JD45 will be Alps compatible, too.
But not iso compatible iirc ;)
Post by: Nawit on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:35:54
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:38:59
Well. I looked in my basement today and found this from my grandparent's old computer.
A year ago I'd probably think nothing of it but now I know how lucky I am to find this. How much is something like this worth? I have never experienced ALPS until now and I gotta say it ain't half bad.
Not Alps, those are slider over rubber dome.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:39:16
Well. I looked in my basement today and found this from my grandparent's old computer.
A year ago I'd probably think nothing of it but now I know how lucky I am to find this. How much is something like this worth? I have never experienced ALPS until now and I gotta say it ain't half bad.
Thats not Alps. Its slider over rubber dome.
Post by: Nawit on Mon, 21 December 2015, 19:48:21
Well. I looked in my basement today and found this from my grandparent's old computer.
A year ago I'd probably think nothing of it but now I know how lucky I am to find this. How much is something like this worth? I have never experienced ALPS until now and I gotta say it ain't half bad.
Thats not Alps. Its slider over rubber dome.
Oopsie. The switch looked so similar. My bad. I'll remove the post.
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 22 December 2015, 00:01:10
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 01:10:23
SKCL green are probably the nicest linears i've ever tried
I haven't been able to try them yet, but I just bought a SHARP X68000 so I should be able to soon. :D
(http://i.imgur.com/tEjPtD9.jpg)
Post by: Magna224 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 01:13:13
Post by: E3E on Tue, 22 December 2015, 03:29:58
I'm pretty sure the automated stocking system at work has Green ALPS. Its ungodly smooth. Much more smooth than even the like new vintage MX Blacks I got or my gaterons. Thats the only thing I could think of that it might be.
I friggin' LOVE green Alps. If you can ever find the unicorn of a switch, brown linear Alps, they are closer in feel to vintage MX blacks due to their weight (60-65g actuation). Greens are very much like reds (45-50g actuation), but oh god are they nice!
*
Little cross post from "what did you add to your keyboard today":
I made an MX-to-Alps adapter out of a styrene rod for something special
(http://i.imgur.com/7uLSLid.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pKpaiAM.jpg)
I also cut a 60% AEK plate for axtran
(http://i.imgur.com/9WiQ4zy.jpg)
This is what a magnetized screw driver looks like when it meets a **** ton of ground steel dust
(http://i.imgur.com/YfAMUBF.jpg)
If anyone might want an adapter so they can mount their favorite artisan on their Alps board, just hit me up. I can't promise that I'll make a ton of these, as I do make them by hand using high quality styrene rod (made for boat scale models, sourced from the UK, and only one store I know of that sells them) and a dremel.
Since they aren't the easiest thing to make, I could do them for about $10 a pop. It might be more practical to go the 3D printed route ^^;
Post by: calavera on Tue, 22 December 2015, 04:35:47
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 09:08:45
Post by: E3E on Tue, 22 December 2015, 12:08:57
Over on Deskthority there is a major thread and they are nearing completion. They have several models of it already and it looks really good. ;D
Is that so? Haha. I made mine because I thought that all hopes of ever owning one of the fabled converters from that thread was nigh impossible. I thought things were starting to stagnate on that end.
I was even more motivated when I saw BlueNalgene's 3D printed batch for Alps Party. Since I had to skip over that GB, I wouldn't be getting any of those, so I did the next best thing! It's actually really solid! "Milling" it out of a solid rod worked out well, haha.
I just need it for one cap anyways!
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 24 December 2015, 10:15:27
Very exciting! The layout looks surprisingly usable, so I can't wait to show it off at work. There is an Alps fan there with a Matias Quiet Click and AEKII that will be very jealous :p
Post by: Bucake on Thu, 24 December 2015, 12:17:38
Just pulled the trigger on a Christmas gift for myself: a refurbished Zenith 1860 84-key with Green SKCL's, based on E3E's constant praise and my love for linears :)
Very exciting! The layout looks surprisingly usable, so I can't wait to show it off at work. There is an Alps fan there with a Matias Quiet Click and AEKII that will be very jealous :p
sweet gift! :D
i have its brother (the 1886). real nice PBT dyesub caps. spacebar is abs, LED-caps are pad printed ABS double-shots. you can turn the noise-thing on-off with alt + esc
really, really nice linear switches, cherry mx linears are absolutely no match :cool:
it's quite pingy, but other than that it sounds and feels real nice. i think it would suit the board if some noise-dampening material is applied inside the case. still have to try it myself ^-^
my only gripes are that the Return key isn't very smooth (weirdly 'stabilized'), and the spacebar is a bit rattly. i guess i'll apply some lube to both to see if that improves things :)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 24 December 2015, 14:26:07
Just pulled the trigger on a Christmas gift for myself: a refurbished Zenith 1860 84-key with Green SKCL's, based on E3E's constant praise and my love for linears :)
Very exciting! The layout looks surprisingly usable, so I can't wait to show it off at work. There is an Alps fan there with a Matias Quiet Click and AEKII that will be very jealous :p
sweet gift! :D
i have its brother (the 1886). real nice PBT dyesub caps. spacebar is abs, LED-caps are pad printed ABS double-shots. you can turn the noise-thing on-off with alt + esc
really, really nice linear switches, cherry mx linears are absolutely no match :cool:
it's quite pingy, but other than that it sounds and feels real nice. i think it would suit the board if some noise-dampening material is applied inside the case. still have to try it myself ^-^
my only gripes are that the Return key isn't very smooth (weirdly 'stabilized'), and the spacebar is a bit rattly. i guess i'll apply some lube to both to see if that improves things :)
Hey, congrats, pr0xy! Glad to see my proselytizing has made a few converts. MX truly doesn't compare. ;) Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the board! I had originally taken a gamble on a Z-150 model, but it ended up having yellow Alps and was in kind of a deplorable condition. So gritty linears. Ew. :/
Yeah, the spring ping is pretty bad with Alps, especially the older ones! It can be fixed right up with lube applied to the springs themselves, but your idea of putting dampening under the board also works as a shortcut. Though it doesn't eliminate all of the ping, it definitely diminishes it significantly if you have good dampening. I lubed all of my Green Alps springs, but I didn't bother with any other switches I've tried in my Hammer board, and the sorbothane sheet I use (not too expensive!) for dampening really killed a lot of the ping with blues and brown linears!
EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized I lubed the brown linear springs too. BUT. It definitely reduces ping on the blues!
Zenith's are incredibly well-built. They're such solid boards with a thick and ridiculously textured plastic top housing and a solid metal bottom panel. It's really crazy how much they've put into the build quality. Bonus for NKRO if you're into that. :thumb:
I still consider the XT layout (I call it that, please correct me if I'm wrong, haha) with the F keys to the side is pretty compact for the era!
I think lubing would hush up rattly stab wire, but you can also try shimming it with paper or, as I've heard recently, bandaids, lol. That might cut even more rattle.
Post by: Bucake on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:05:17
how do they compare to greens?
i actually prefer the F-section of the XT boards over the standard F-row of today.
when i switch from an XT board to a 'classic' board, i'm quickly annoyed by the F-row.
clustered together on the left side makes so much more sense for my left arm/hand. i wish it was common practise!
cheers for the tip, i think i'll try the paper/bandaid trick!
edit: is NKRO that much more expensive to make, or something?
i mean.. so many huge names/brands have 6KRO or even lower. why? super old boards prove that NKRO has always been an option.
and for example hasu's controller shows that NKRO is possible over USB.
why is NKRO not the standard?
not that i need more than 6KRO, but i just don't understand why we went from NKRO to 6KRO
Post by: E3E on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:21:29
brown linears? aren't those extremely rare?
how do they compare to greens?
i actually prefer the F-section of the XT boards over the standard F-row of today.
when i switch from an XT board to a 'classic' board, i'm quickly annoyed by the F-row.
clustered together on the left side makes so much more sense for my left arm/hand. i wish it was common practise!
cheers for the tip, i think i'll try the paper/bandaid trick!
edit: is NKRO that much more expensive to make, or something?
i mean.. so many huge names/brands have 6KRO or even lower. why? super old boards prove that NKRO has always been an option.
and for example hasu's controller shows that NKRO is possible over USB.
why is NKRO not the standard?
not that i need more than 6KRO, but i just don't understand why we went from NKRO to 6KRO
Linear brown Alps are indeed quite rare. The best bet is in old Texas Instruments Low-Profile Keyboard models. Which don't turn up often. They aren't all THAT special. They feel like the MX black of the Alps world, where linear greens feel like MX reds, imo. They actuate at around 65g of force. They are both very smooth, but I prefer greens more myself. I'll have to give the browns more attention though. :)
Hehe, I like the XT layout for its looks, but I couldn't get used to the layout myself--granted, I only had XT protocol boards with that layout, so I couldn't even TRY to get used to them.
Yes, NKRO was very uncommon back in the day, aside from the technologies that had it by default, ie capacitive keyboards.
The only NKRO boards I know of in the vintage Alps world are the Z-150, the ZKB-2, the Omnikey, the Leading Edge DC-2014, the Leading Edge DC-3014, and the Chicony 5161A. That might sound like a lot, but it's pretty tiny compared to the plethora of Alps boards out there. The blue Alps variants with NKRO... Well, there's only the DC-3014, the gold label Omnikey 102, and then the Chicony 5161A. None of which are absolutely guaranteed to have blue Alps (much less so the Chicony).
NKRO is more standard today on high priced boards, but yeah... I dunno. I guess the extra couple of cents of expenses for diodes adds up over designing a labyrinth of a matrix and adding blocking (?). Though I have a few old boards that have no diodes OR blocking, and it's pretty amusing. I can do the whole "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" test just fine, albeit with some random tildes and Ms thrown in, haha.
I'm not sure what the 6KRO thing is about. I always thought that was more of a limitation with USB tech. Only my Infinity and the DIN5-to-USB Soarer's converter DIN5-to-USB I bought from orihalcon allow full NKRO over USB. Someone more technical than I am could probably give you a far better answer! My Duck boards all have diodes, but only get 6KRO over USB. I'm not sure if that would change with an active PS/2 converter or not.
I'm fine with 6KRO, but I really wanted a vintage blue Alps board with NKRO. I FINALLY found a DC-3014, and that's my Christmas gift to myself, haha. I can live with 2KRO or ... a willy nilly unblocked matrix, but having the freedom is nice.
I use a DTR laptop, so I don't have the option of PS/2 alone, I should say.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:24:13
Post by: chyros on Thu, 24 December 2015, 17:28:56
The only NKRO boards I know of in the vintage Alps world are the Z-150, the ZKB-2, the Omnikey, the Leading Edge DC-2014, the Leading Edge DC-3014, and the Chicony 5161A.Ironically, my Omnikey Ultra doesn't even have NKRO, it seems to be broken somehow xD .
Post by: SamirD on Tue, 29 December 2015, 14:35:29
NEC PK-KB015 ALPS SKCL yellow switch[NIB] :pThis board is wild! I've never seen anything like it!
Post by: axtran on Wed, 30 December 2015, 06:38:52
So Alps people can you guide me?
What are the current options for pcb to put alps on ?
That would be to put those beauties onto somethingShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/vLd3YHc.jpg)
Sigh... I want AZERTY board like yours :(
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 30 December 2015, 07:25:06
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 30 December 2015, 07:25:37
awjio4fwjiowatjwt04239oops! Was testing xRKO on my M since it's going through a kvm switch--seems to be limited to 6. :(
Post by: smarmar on Wed, 30 December 2015, 12:01:37
No they went down under a long time ago. Matias is the only company that makes alps switches/boards now.
I got a Matias Tactile Pro 3 with white alps a couple of years ago for my 2006 iMac. My gf hates the absurdly loud, plasic-y clicks. When I get goin' on that thing it sounds like someone pouring tic-tacs on a tile floor.
Sadly, I don't use the Mac as often as I used to; it's getting up there in age and losing its usefulness.
Post by: KRKS on Thu, 31 December 2015, 03:47:18
the whole "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" test
Am I really seeing these words from someone with 900+ posts?
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 31 December 2015, 07:22:01
the whole "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" test
Am I really seeing these words from someone with 900+ posts?
What's wrong with it?
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:06:16
I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.
Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though! :))
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:35:39
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy. I like to hope it's because there's something in them that needs cleaning out (Alps seem very temperamental) because these have a LONG way to go before they're as smooth as either my vintage MX or Gateron Blacks. Love the form factor and build quality of the board for the most part, though the caps feel way thinner than they look.
I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.
Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though! :))
Bad Alps feel as bad as any other bad switch, but if they are in good condition I think they are the best of the switch types.
Post by: pr0ximity on Thu, 31 December 2015, 14:59:00
That's what's keeping me going with this board :) By "bad Alps" do you mean ones that need cleaning, or is there some other way Alps go "bad"?Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy. I like to hope it's because there's something in them that needs cleaning out (Alps seem very temperamental) because these have a LONG way to go before they're as smooth as either my vintage MX or Gateron Blacks. Love the form factor and build quality of the board for the most part, though the caps feel way thinner than they look.
I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.
Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though! :))
Bad Alps feel as bad as any other bad switch, but if they are in good condition I think they are the best of the switch types.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Thu, 31 December 2015, 15:22:01
https://www.etsy.com/listing/216916871/molybdenum-disulfide-1-ounce-15-micron?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=molybdenum%20disulfide&ref=sr_gallery_2
Post by: sean on Thu, 31 December 2015, 20:59:42
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy. I like to hope it's because there's something in them that needs cleaning out (Alps seem very temperamental) because these have a LONG way to go before they're as smooth as either my vintage MX or Gateron Blacks. Love the form factor and build quality of the board for the most part, though the caps feel way thinner than they look.
I'm thinking I'll have to disassemble the entire thing and wash it all out, switch housings and sliders included? The plate has some corrosion and could use a sanding, so I think this will be my next restoration job. It's either that or building an Alps 60%, but I'm really not convinced Alps are for me yet so I think I'll keep the board and try not to sink too much money into it. I have everything I need to clean it up so it's just a matter of finding the time.
Neat that you can open Alps while they're on the plate though! :))
When I disassembled my blue alps switches I washed the top housings. I suppose you can also wash the sliders if they did not come with lube, or are going to put your own dry lube on them.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 31 December 2015, 22:58:15
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFgxMDgw/z/kxIAAOSwFqJWhVZq/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
the seller said that the board have no click and feel similar with cherry mx brown
the board is ortek one and I'm in a deal with him can somone confirmed that this is a SKCL green alps?
Post by: itzmeluigi on Thu, 31 December 2015, 23:29:44
Either way its very interesting and worth picking up. Try to ask the seller to take a clearer picture of the top of the switch.
Post by: sean on Thu, 31 December 2015, 23:31:11
Is this SKCL green alps?Does it have a hole for an LED? If yes then it's absolutely SKCL green.Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFgxMDgw/z/kxIAAOSwFqJWhVZq/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
the seller said that the board have no click and feel similar with cherry mx brown
the board is ortek one and I'm in a deal with him can somone confirmed that this is a SKCL green alps?
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:02:02
Zenith board with Green SKCL Alps came in yesterday. Gotta say, so far I am vastly underwhelmed. I opened a couple switches and lubed them with Krytox 203, still scratchy.When brand new, green Alps are definitely not scratchy. Smoother than any linear MX switch you’ll ever find, except those with lube added by an enthusiast.
If it’s scratchy, that means it sat on a shelf for 2 to 3 decades without a box, and got filled with dust and grit.
Cleaning scratchy Alps switches is nontrivial. I think the best tool is probably an ultrasonic cleaner, but if you don’t have one of those and still want to clean up the switches, I’d recommend desoldering everything, taking all the switches apart, carefully swabbing out the housings and sliders with an alcohol-soaked q-tip or similar, and then adding some Krytox to all the contact points before reassembling. It’s going to take a considerable amount of effort though; just finding better condition switches is probably easier/cheaper if you value your time.
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:14:26
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:16:30
Waiting for the seller to get a clearer picture
Which Ortek is it if you don't mind me asking?
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 01 January 2016, 00:19:31
Ortek mck 101FTNWaiting for the seller to get a clearer picture
Which Ortek is it if you don't mind me asking?
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 01 January 2016, 02:03:01
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 01 January 2016, 02:15:46
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 02 January 2016, 14:25:07
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 03 January 2016, 00:15:59
I have some sideways-Alps-mount relegendable keys listed in the free stuff thread if anyone is interested.Have any pictures of those?
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 03 January 2016, 00:33:01
Have any pictures of those?
Here's a picture that I took earlier.
(http://i.imgur.com/wjktwPc.jpg)
Post by: Altis on Sun, 03 January 2016, 11:34:16
They're certainly smoother overall than Monterey Blue alps, but I don't think it comes down to the slider smoothness. I think the reason they feel so good is that they have the very long tactile bump that's similar in stroke to Black Alps or Topre, with a soft click at actuation. The actuation point doesn't itself interfere with the downstroke, though, so while they sound clicky, they don't really feel clicky but certainly tactile.
It's like how Topre is very tactile but not clicky at all. If you added a soft clicker in 45g Topre that didn't resist too much, it would probably feel pretty similar overall.
Contrast that with Monterey Blue alps which have a more resistant click in the keystroke: you push down until you reach a point where the resistance builds up and you have to overcome that sudden tactile click. The click is very harsh and pronounced by comparison with the Blue Alps, which you could slowly push through without really feeling any sudden buildup of pressure at the click/actuation point.
Just some thoughts. I'll probably post a review of the keyboard and switches when I've had a chance to really get to know it and collect my thoughts.
I definitely do like the Blue Alps feel and sound, though.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 03 January 2016, 17:47:23
Part of the quality of the keyfeel is definitely due to the tactile leaf Alps used, yeah. It's IMO why Type OA2 clones feel better than most others too, as it's fairly close to the construction to actual complicated Alps. However, just the click leaf doesn't explain why blue Alps feel nicer than white ones though, as they appear to be identical. I would also say that Montereys do feel nicer than white Alps (but not blue Alps). That's just my opinion though. I think it's a combination of factors, materials, and design decisions, really.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 05 January 2016, 01:15:26
However, just the click leaf doesn't explain why blue Alps feel nicer than white ones though, as they appear to be identical.Quite noticeably different spring, different click leaf, different contact assembly (this accounts for some of the sound difference), factory-applied lubricant, different switch housing, slightly different slider shape. There actually isn’t a single identical part, though they’re mostly pretty similar.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 05 January 2016, 18:31:36
huft too bad the board is simplified green alpsShow Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Are you sure? Those look like the rare tactile green Alps to me.
Nevermind. I see the tabs now. Taking 6 days away from the keyboard game and already I'm getting rusty, haha.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 05 January 2016, 18:43:22
The markings also show it's not a genuine Alps switch ;) . Besides, SKCM Green has a really weird shade of almost luminescent green.huft too bad the board is simplified green alpsShow Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Are you sure? Those look like the rare tactile green Alps to me.
Nevermind. I see the tabs now. Taking 6 days away from the keyboard game and already I'm getting rusty, haha.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:18:40
Post by: E3E on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:24:33
Do you guys think 70 dollar for a board with blue alps is worth it? Trying to snatch my first blue alps :p
YES. Buy it! NOW!
That's a fantastic price for blue Alps if you're buying online. Don't pass it up!
What board are you getting? Is it an 84 key or a 101?
The markings also show it's not a genuine Alps switch ;) . Besides, SKCM Green has a really weird shade of almost luminescent green.huft too bad the board is simplified green alpsShow Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4OVgxMDgw/z/8iwAAOSwKtlWhi1B/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Are you sure? Those look like the rare tactile green Alps to me.
Nevermind. I see the tabs now. Taking 6 days away from the keyboard game and already I'm getting rusty, haha.
Yeah, the markings on Alps switches are pretty distinctive! I did think this shade of green was pretty vivid compared to the linear green slider, though.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:28:14
Do you guys think 70 dollar for a board with blue alps is worth it? Trying to snatch my first blue alps :p
YES. Buy it! NOW!
That's a fantastic price for blue Alps if you're buying online. Don't pass it up!
What board are you getting? Is it an 84 key or a 101?
I think a 101 I'm waiting for the pic. The one that sell this are fellow member here wanting to sell his board :p
Post by: sean on Tue, 05 January 2016, 20:36:43
Do you guys think 70 dollar for a board with blue alps is worth it? Trying to snatch my first blue alps :p
YES. Buy it! NOW!
That's a fantastic price for blue Alps if you're buying online. Don't pass it up!
What board are you getting? Is it an 84 key or a 101?
I think a 101 I'm waiting for the pic. The one that sell this are fellow member here wanting to sell his board :p
Lucky you!
Edit: What is happening, I don't deserve this!
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 05 January 2016, 21:20:56
(http://m.imgur.com/HPv615t.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QMjBeR1h.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 06 January 2016, 00:40:56
Yep I got chicony 5161c with indeed a genuine complicated blue alps ;DShow Image(http://m.imgur.com/HPv615t.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QMjBeR1h.jpg)
Looks to be in fantastic condition! Is that the 5161A model with NKRO? I haven't heard of the Chicony having a 5161C designation Owo
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 00:47:13
Nah its the 5161c from 1987Yep I got chicony 5161c with indeed a genuine complicated blue alps ;DShow Image(http://m.imgur.com/HPv615t.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QMjBeR1h.jpg)
Looks to be in fantastic condition! Is that the 5161A model with NKRO? I haven't heard of the Chicony having a 5161C designation Owo
like in deskthority wiki http://deskthority.net/wiki/Chicony_KB-5161
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 01:05:26
You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?
(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 01:30:36
Congrats on finding one :thumb: I wish i could tell if mine is a 5161C or a 5161A but it has no labels :))use it as it is but when I do find kingsaver I would swap the switch to the custom :p
You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 01:58:03
Congrats on finding one :thumb: I wish i could tell if mine is a 5161C or a 5161A but it has no labels :))use it as it is but when I do find kingsaver I would swap the switch to the custom :p
You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)
Nice im trying to restore my 5161 with SKCL greens, just need to get the proper lights for an indoor retrobright setup. The Kingsaver is my dream board, IMO i think its the best looking custom ever. I should probably start to look for one, i havent tried yet because i dont think i would ever find one lol.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:43:15
If you want to know the exact model; it should say so on the PCB :) .
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:48:30
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:52:12
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 02:53:07
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?yep
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 03:17:40
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?yep
Ah i was hoping MCK-101- "A" might have meant NKRO. Oh well standard KRO is enough, but NKRO would have been nice.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 03:43:04
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 04:04:59
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
:eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970
Picture of front and back of the PCB:
(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)
Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490
Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 04:21:50
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 06:10:29
The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
:eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970
Picture of front and back of the PCB:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)
Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490
Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?
Oh yeah guys I want to ask what board that usually have skcl green? :thumb:Old Zeniths are generally your best bet, look for a Z-150 or ZKB-2 (both could also come with yellows though). They're very good looking boards, not that rare and also come with NKRO.
Post by: Bucake on Wed, 06 January 2016, 08:09:03
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 06 January 2016, 08:15:35
wow, nice catch bocahgundulThank you I've been searching for 1 for about 1 month and suddenly someone want to sells theirs haha now for the skcl green
Post by: Eugene45 on Wed, 06 January 2016, 09:46:38
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 11:23:50
The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
:eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970
Picture of front and back of the PCB:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)
Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490
Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?
Ah i understand, i thought it was a Chicony the whole time :)) Do you know which adapter i should buy to use to test if it supports NKRO?
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 06 January 2016, 11:26:12
Congrats! I'd keep it original. That looks like it's in fantastic condition and you won't find many like that in the next few years.Congrats on finding one :thumb: I wish i could tell if mine is a 5161C or a 5161A but it has no labels :))use it as it is but when I do find kingsaver I would swap the switch to the custom :p
You going to use the board how it is or swap the switches into something else?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ausYzBO.gif)
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 January 2016, 12:53:40
More than understandable, they look virtually identical xD . I think it's AT/XT compatible so a simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should suffice if you have a PS/2 port which is fully compatible with NKRO, if you don't you'll need a converter :) . Most NKRO systems don't persist past 6KRO over USB as far as I know but it's certainly not impossible.The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
:eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970
Picture of front and back of the PCB:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)
Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490
Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?
Ah i understand, i thought it was a Chicony the whole time :)) Do you know which adapter i should buy to use to test if it supports NKRO?
Post by: E3E on Wed, 06 January 2016, 13:01:01
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
:eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970
Picture of front and back of the PCB:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)
Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490
Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?
Judging by the PCB, it looks like it doesn't use diodes in the keyboard matrix, so I'd say it likely does not have NKRO. I like the case design of the Ortek MCK-101. It's the only one of the bigfoot-style boards I know of that come very close to matching the exact look of the FAME TH-5539 I have, with some slight and significant differences.
One big one being the plastic bottom as opposed to the metal one on the FAME, and also the four indicator lights as opposed to the more conventional three lights that the FAME uses. The styling of the top bezel aside from that and from what I can make out from pictures show it to be very close to the FAME's. Both the Chicony 5161 and AT101 that I have are a bit different and have bezels that are less wide and thick as the FAME. I could always be wrong about the scale of the MCK, since pictures can be a bit deceiving, hehe.
The bottom of the MCK-101 is heavily reminiscent to the Dell AT101 in terms of screw mounting points and the tabs, though the AT-XT switch is obviously not found on the AT101!
I've been wanting one of these to have a plastic cousin to the FAME, but every time I see one, it goes for far too much than I'm willing to pay.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 06 January 2016, 13:35:42
More than understandable, they look virtually identical xD . I think it's AT/XT compatible so a simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should suffice if you have a PS/2 port which is fully compatible with NKRO, if you don't you'll need a converter :) . Most NKRO systems don't persist past 6KRO over USB as far as I know but it's certainly not impossible.The OEMMAX is definitely not a Chicony 5161, it's a branded keyboard with Ortek as OEM. Many keyboards resemble the 5161 but they're certainly not all the same. As far as I know the OEMMAX is always blue Alps, too. No idea about rollover, though.Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
:eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970
Picture of front and back of the PCB:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)
Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490
Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?
Ah i understand, i thought it was a Chicony the whole time :)) Do you know which adapter i should buy to use to test if it supports NKRO?
Awesome thanks, luckily i have a PS/2 port, im going to buy this adapter, it looks like it should work well http://www.ebay.com/itm/231664941582 If the keyboard doesnt support NKRO ill buy this to use it over USB http://www.ebay.com/itm/381276560855
Mine doesnt say 5161C or 5161A but it does say MCK-101-A 1987, that means its a 5161C right?The MCK-101 is an Ortek board, not a Chicony Oo .
:eek: Hahaha it was the one from here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76927.msg1931900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171994965970
Picture of front and back of the PCB:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BykloKo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WncJ0u8.jpg)
Akimbo said it was a rebranded 5161 though
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58598.msg1339490#msg1339490
Do the Ortek versions have NKRO?
Judging by the PCB, it looks like it doesn't use diodes in the keyboard matrix, so I'd say it likely does not have NKRO. I like the case design of the Ortek MCK-101. It's the only one of the bigfoot-style boards I know of that come very close to matching the exact look of the FAME TH-5539 I have, with some slight and significant differences.
One big one being the plastic bottom as opposed to the metal one on the FAME, and also the four indicator lights as opposed to the more conventional three lights that the FAME uses. The styling of the top bezel aside from that and from what I can make out from pictures show it to be very close to the FAME's. Both the Chicony 5161 and AT101 that I have are a bit different and have bezels that are less wide and thick as the FAME. I could always be wrong about the scale of the MCK, since pictures can be a bit deceiving, hehe.
The bottom of the MCK-101 is heavily reminiscent to the Dell AT101 in terms of screw mounting points and the tabs, though the AT-XT switch is obviously not found on the AT101!
I've been wanting one of these to have a plastic cousin to the FAME, but every time I see one, it goes for far too much than I'm willing to pay.
Your right there doesnt seem to be any diodes, i guess no NKRO then. The FAME is awesome though, metal all the way. I like how the Ortek looks also but mine is so yellowed now that its almost orange, once i find some good lights to make an indoor retrobright setup i hope it will be looking brand new. Im most likely going to put SKCL greens in it, but might put SKCM Oranges, SKCM Whites, or Matias Clicks in it, might try to get a non coiled cable for it also since those coiled cables are so bulky.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 08 January 2016, 15:04:10
JANUARY 2016 GEEK HACK DOUBLE SHOT GROUP BUY (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78489.0)
Post by: njbair on Fri, 08 January 2016, 15:28:39
Pssst, hey Alps fans:Do you know something we don't???
JANUARY 2016 GEEK HACK DOUBLE SHOT GROUP BUY (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78489.0)
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 01:04:47
I really want to appreciate alps :thumb:
Post by: nickheller on Sat, 09 January 2016, 01:07:45
(http://i.imgur.com/xkG2GUa.jpg)
I also soldered the diodes for my alps infinity today, soon these switches will be going in that.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 01:21:07
Just got done desoldering these blue alps ;DYummy blue alps waiting for mine soon :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/xkG2GUa.jpg)
I also soldered the diodes for my alps infinity today, soon these switches will be going in that.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 06:11:51
IN AN AGREEMENT FOR KINGSAVER BOIS :p :p
yes my dream board :cool: :cool:
Post by: chyros on Sat, 09 January 2016, 06:19:20
Just got done desoldering these blue alps ;DMurder most foul and unnatural, my lord. >_>Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xkG2GUa.jpg)
I also soldered the diodes for my alps infinity today, soon these switches will be going in that.
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 09 January 2016, 11:39:39
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 09 January 2016, 11:54:25
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them. Alps appreciated!White Alps, and they are usually really nice. Focus keyboards are great! Hope you enjoy it.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 09 January 2016, 13:04:31
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them. Alps appreciated!The FK-2001 and Chicony KB-5161 are probably the two main contestants for board with most different types of switch in it xD . If it's white and specifically says "Alps" on it, it's white Alps, otherwise it's almost certainly a clone (although some clones were really good too). The FK-2001 is one of the best-looking boards I know, certainly the best-looking one I own. Congrats on the find! :)
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 09 January 2016, 14:14:04
It's quite nice. Initially x and b both weren't working, mainly because I think the keyboard literally had been sitting in a storage unit for the last 10 years, but after a few repeated presses, both started working. :thumb: I basically rescued that board and I'm sure it will clean up really nice. The switches are scratchy so that's going to have to be remedied too, but I think cleaning will go a long way too.Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them. Alps appreciated!White Alps, and they are usually really nice. Focus keyboards are great! Hope you enjoy it.
What's funny is that right before I used the Focus, I used the 5161 and an NMB space invaders--and all of these for the first time! It was really nice to feel all these very cool switches. Now coming back to an M, I see where the inspiration came from and even how they have certain qualities I even like better. :cool:Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them. Alps appreciated!The FK-2001 and Chicony KB-5161 are probably the two main contestants for board with most different types of switch in it xD . If it's white and specifically says "Alps" on it, it's white Alps, otherwise it's almost certainly a clone (although some clones were really good too). The FK-2001 is one of the best-looking boards I know, certainly the best-looking one I own. Congrats on the find! :)
I guess I'm not going to know what's in my Focus until I start to clean it, but the Chicony was Badwrench's and in his words "White alps - switches are super crispy - best whites I have felt.". What's interesting to me is that the Focus feels a little more crisp than the Chicony, but they're not as smooth because they're scratchy.
Overall, I really like the Alps switch even moreso than the Cherrys that I have and have felt. I can see why Alps are a bit like the Mopar of the keyboard world. :cool:
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 09 January 2016, 14:57:19
Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them. Alps appreciated!If you post a picture of the outside of the board (or just describe it), we can guess pretty well.
Do you have one with the translucent plastic cover included?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 09 January 2016, 16:54:18
(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)
MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.
But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.
Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sat, 09 January 2016, 17:18:27
So this is definitely going to be a cross post, I know it. Sorry for being AWOL by the way guys, just been keeping busy with other things. I'm trying not to focus TOO hard on keyboards right now to stave off wallet hack and try and reprioritize things in life. I won't ever leave this lovely scene though, but I might be a little more low key here and there. ^^Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)
MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.
But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.
Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.
Woooow that looks awwsome!, never actually seen Hebrew caps before, excellent work man that definitely looks like a completed board :thumb: All the work put into that board certainly shows.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 09 January 2016, 17:29:56
So this is definitely going to be a cross post, I know it. Sorry for being AWOL by the way guys, just been keeping busy with other things. I'm trying not to focus TOO hard on keyboards right now to stave off wallet hack and try and reprioritize things in life. I won't ever leave this lovely scene though, but I might be a little more low key here and there. ^^Is it double shot hebrew bro?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)
MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.
But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.
Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 09 January 2016, 17:39:29
So this is definitely going to be a cross post, I know it. Sorry for being AWOL by the way guys, just been keeping busy with other things. I'm trying not to focus TOO hard on keyboards right now to stave off wallet hack and try and reprioritize things in life. I won't ever leave this lovely scene though, but I might be a little more low key here and there. ^^Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/P5h97an.jpg)
MEGA THANKS to Bromono and Alienman82 for this. Well, for the Hebrew caps anyway. Got them off of a distant cousin of my FAME, the APC TH-5539, which is just soooo much less of a board than the FAME.
But the caps were in amazing condition. So thanks Bro for shipping me the board free of charge, and thanks to you Alienman82 for passing on your first dibs to me.
Finally, my FAME is complete, and it will probably always be my favorite vintage Alps board.
(https://i.imgur.com/MIj6o.gif)
Post by: SamirD on Sat, 09 January 2016, 21:34:31
Here's a twin of mine I found online. Surprisingly, mine is only slightly dirtier than this one:Just got an FK-2001 yesterday for cheap and although I don't know which alps they are, it seems that they must be alps from everything I've read--and what's more important is that I like them. Alps appreciated!If you post a picture of the outside of the board (or just describe it), we can guess pretty well.
Do you have one with the translucent plastic cover included?
(http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/fk2001/all1.jpg)
I didn't get the cover (owner didn't have it). But I knocked the price down because of it. :D
Post by: axtran on Sun, 10 January 2016, 01:45:11
My new Duck Orion V2 with SKCM Blue ALPS... I suppose I appreciate ALPS too!
Post by: sean on Sun, 10 January 2016, 02:59:37
http://imgur.com/ocpYhTuThat's quite the board to own! I think I just missed the Orion V2 gb when I joined GeekHack otherwise I'd have my own.
My new Duck Orion V2 with SKCM Blue ALPS... I suppose I appreciate ALPS too!
Post by: E3E on Sun, 10 January 2016, 04:07:24
Is it double shot hebrew bro?
Yep, double shots with pad printed Hebrew legends. No shine whatsoever, which is incredibly rare with ABS caps on vintages. So happy with them!
Woooow that looks awwsome!, never actually seen Hebrew caps before, excellent work man that definitely looks like a completed board :thumb: All the work put into that board certainly shows.
Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha. I'm super happy with the look now. My FAME is complete, but that also sadly means that I probably will just keep it stowed away as a collection piece now. I have a fair amount of other blue Alps vintages to love on now, so the fame will just be my mantle piece now. :D
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/MIj6o.gif)
:D
Thanks for all the props, guys. It's definitely been christened my endgame blue Alps board, even after finding the Leading Edge DC-3014 and Focus FK-555 (soon), the FAME is actually a lot more rare than either of those two; this particular kind anyway! So it's nice to have something really unique and well-built as well as personalized. :D
Post by: umeboshi on Wed, 13 January 2016, 01:05:33
I just installed some modified clicky orange Alps into a minitouch, pretty much exactly like CPTBadAss did: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71855.0, and it feels quite nice :D
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 January 2016, 02:14:19
Question for any Alps folks who may have compared modified clicky orange Alps with blue alps? Do they feel close enough to be a poor man's blue alps?They’re definitely different. Different spring and noticeably different click leaf. Same “switchplate” assembly and housing though.
I dunno about “poor man’s” – very good condition orange Alps switches are also very nice, and not all that easy to find.
Post by: richfiles on Wed, 13 January 2016, 03:12:59
I am in LOVE with my Apple //c Extended Memory keyboard. It uses Alps Amber switches, and I want to build it into a 60%-ish bluetooth keyboard, after I finish my Danger Zone 75%+1 custom keyboard. I have NEVER found a switch that feels better. I like Cherry/Gateron Blues... But WOW... Alps Ambers are a DREAM. If the Danger Zone keycap set were available as Alps compatible, I'd have ordered it that way, and splurged for a second Apple //c to salvage enough switches to use those. Alas... That keycap set requires MX compatible posts, and the //c is quite spendy these days. I'll be more than happy with a nice portable mechanical keyboard. I'll have the two push to toggle switches at the top act as power and a Number row/F row switch. I'll steal another Apple key so I can move [Esc] to where Reset is, and the [~`] key to where [Esc] is, so I have a proper modifier row. I can also steal an [Option] from another Apple keyboard with the same cap style. I know some would call it sacrilege, but I play Kerbal Space Program... [Control] is Throttle Down, and [Left Shift] is Throttle Up. I NEED to get [Caps Lock] and [Control] swapped, somehow. Maybe I'll just say screw it. [Caps Lock] is a toggle switch as well.
[attachimg=2]
My 75%+1 plates sitting on top of my Apple Extended Keyboard II. It's sooooooo yellow... I WANT an AEKII stuffed with Alps Ambers... Bestest switch ever! :p :thumb:
Post by: chyros on Wed, 13 January 2016, 03:31:00
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 13 January 2016, 03:34:14
(Attachment Link)Awesome where do you make that plates?
I am in LOVE with my Apple //c Extended Memory keyboard. It uses Alps Amber switches, and I want to build it into a 60%-ish bluetooth keyboard, after I finish my Danger Zone 75%+1 custom keyboard. I have NEVER found a switch that feels better. I like Cherry/Gateron Blues... But WOW... Alps Ambers are a DREAM. If the Danger Zone keycap set were available as Alps compatible, I'd have ordered it that way, and splurged for a second Apple //c to salvage enough switches to use those. Alas... That keycap set requires MX compatible posts, and the //c is quite spendy these days. I'll be more than happy with a nice portable mechanical keyboard. I'll have the two push to toggle switches at the top act as power and a Number row/F row switch. I'll steal another Apple key so I can move [Esc] to where Reset is, and the [~`] key to where [Esc] is, so I have a proper modifier row. I can also steal an [Option] from another Apple keyboard with the same cap style. I know some would call it sacrilege, but I play Kerbal Space Program... [Control] is Throttle Down, and [Left Shift] is Throttle Up. I NEED to get [Caps Lock] and [Control] swapped, somehow. Maybe I'll just say screw it. [Caps Lock] is a toggle switch as well.
(Attachment Link)
My 75%+1 plates sitting on top of my Apple Extended Keyboard II. It's sooooooo yellow... I WANT an AEKII stuffed with Alps Ambers... Bestest switch ever! :p :thumb:
never heard of alps amber at all bro is it that "good" and do you ever use alps blue switch?
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 January 2016, 04:27:59
Amber Alps are a bit of an enigma, we still have no idea where they sit in the timeline. It's quite possible, but wholly unknown at the time, that they were Alps' first ever clicky switch. Have you tried blue Alps as well, and if so, how do they compare?I think SKCL predate SKCM a bit. That is, linear green Alps. Some of these have a black switchplate, same as tee mount Alps switches.
First SKCM switches were blue and "ivory". Someone dug up an early Alps catalog listing those two. Ivory = the tactile switch before orange Alps. The only source I know for them is certain Canon typewriters, and I’ve never seen them in especially pristine condition. Gray double-actuating linear switches are from the same era.
After that I’m not sure of the precise timeline, but among SKCM/SKCL switches with "tall" switchplate assemblies, there are brown and orange tactile switches, cream heavy linear switches, and amber clicky switches.
Perhaps amber switches were first intended for spacebars but nobody was buying them for that, so Apple bought a batch on the cheap?
Omron clicky switches came in amber and blue variants, roughly corresponding to amber and blue Alps, so presumably there was a point where Alps had both of those available. Soft clicky switches from Cherry, SMK, and NEC all also copied the blue color.
(http://i.imgur.com/BlUKXmg.jpg)
Then later Alps switched to short switchplates, in a generation including white clicky, salmon (and later black) tactile, green tactile, yellow linear, and cream quiet tactile switches.
Quote
how do they compare?Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.
People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 13 January 2016, 04:58:30
SKCL Green were first yeah, but they're not clicky ;) . I've done a fair amount of research into the Alps timeline for several upcoming videos, including correspondence with Daniel B. Truth is we have a pretty good idea now, but rare/obscure switches like SKCM Amber and SKCM Cream are simply not well known enough to place properly into the main timeline yet. We need a lot more data before we can place them, and it's unlikely we'll ever get it.Amber Alps are a bit of an enigma, we still have no idea where they sit in the timeline. It's quite possible, but wholly unknown at the time, that they were Alps' first ever clicky switch. Have you tried blue Alps as well, and if so, how do they compare?I think SKCL predate SKCM a bit. That is, linear green Alps. Some of these have a black switchplate, same as tee mount Alps switches.
First SKCM switches were blue and "ivory". Someone dug up an early Alps catalog listing those two. Ivory = the tactile switch before orange Alps. The only source I know for them is certain Canon typewriters, and I’ve never seen them in especially pristine condition. Gray double-actuating linear switches are from the same era.
After that I’m not sure of the precise timeline, but among SKCM/SKCL switches with "tall" switchplate assemblies, there are brown and orange tactile switches, cream heavy linear switches, and amber clicky switches.
Perhaps amber switches were first intended for spacebars but nobody was buying them for that, so Apple bought a batch on the cheap?
Omron clicky switches came in amber and blue variants, roughly corresponding to amber and blue Alps, so presumably there was a point where Alps had both of those available. Soft clicky switches from Cherry, SMK, and NEC all also copied the blue color.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BlUKXmg.jpg)
Then later Alps switched to short switchplates, in a generation including white clicky, salmon (and later black) tactile, green tactile, yellow linear, and cream quiet tactile switches.Quotehow do they compare?Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.
People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.
Amber Alps sound intriguing though. Much louder than blue and white Alps? Colour me intrigued :) .
Post by: Yoe on Wed, 13 January 2016, 08:10:10
(Attachment Link)
I am in LOVE with my Apple //c Extended Memory keyboard. It uses Alps Amber switches, and I want to build it into a 60%-ish bluetooth keyboard, after I finish my Danger Zone 75%+1 custom keyboard. I have NEVER found a switch that feels better. I like Cherry/Gateron Blues... But WOW... Alps Ambers are a DREAM. If the Danger Zone keycap set were available as Alps compatible, I'd have ordered it that way, and splurged for a second Apple //c to salvage enough switches to use those. Alas... That keycap set requires MX compatible posts, and the //c is quite spendy these days. I'll be more than happy with a nice portable mechanical keyboard. I'll have the two push to toggle switches at the top act as power and a Number row/F row switch. I'll steal another Apple key so I can move [Esc] to where Reset is, and the [~`] key to where [Esc] is, so I have a proper modifier row. I can also steal an [Option] from another Apple keyboard with the same cap style. I know some would call it sacrilege, but I play Kerbal Space Program... [Control] is Throttle Down, and [Left Shift] is Throttle Up. I NEED to get [Caps Lock] and [Control] swapped, somehow. Maybe I'll just say screw it. [Caps Lock] is a toggle switch as well.
Have you seen this? http://retroconnector.com/products/apple-ii/keyboard-shield-for-apple-iic-or-iic/
I made one on an experiment board and just used his firmware on a Teensy++, worked like a charm.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 13 January 2016, 09:07:17
Amber Alps are a bit of an enigma, we still have no idea where they sit in the timeline. It's quite possible, but wholly unknown at the time, that they were Alps' first ever clicky switch. Have you tried blue Alps as well, and if so, how do they compare?
They Actuate at around 80 g whereas Blues are around 65 g, they are much sharper in tactility. I don't know if I'd call them "louder" per se, but their click is certainly not as refined as the click that emanates from a blue SKCM switch. :P
The Ambers kind of reminded me of a socket wrench, that ratcheting action. I suppose they were a -tad- bit louder, but their click in general was just kind of underwhelming to me.
I wouldn't be surprised if they came before blues.
The fact that the Apple IIc had both SKCM Amber and SKCM Blue (in replacement boards) and that it is so far the only documented source of blues with the ALPS stamping on the top housing... Is very intriguing.
Could ambers have come before blues? Possibly, but they possibly might not have just the same. The strange lack of a bottom lip on the amber's click leaf is a little suspicious, but could it mean that it was a first attempt, or just a revision or experimentation?
Post by: richfiles on Wed, 13 January 2016, 18:25:01
Awesome where do you make that plates?
never heard of alps amber at all bro is it that "good" and do you ever use alps blue switch?
LeandreN ran a plate prototyper/group purchase back in... I think it was around October. Used the keyboard layout editor and plate builder online tools to create the layout and the files for the manufacturer. I've got a thread here showing all the details.
Have you seen this? http://retroconnector.com/products/apple-ii/keyboard-shield-for-apple-iic-or-iic/
I made one on an experiment board and just used his firmware on a Teensy++, worked like a charm.
I saw that a while back. I'm an electronics guy, so I'll just save some cash and do my own wiring. Schematic to the keyboard is out there, but honestly, It can probably only manage 1-2KRO, as the matrix has no diodes. I'll cut traces and solder in diodes to each switch and take the matrix directly to a Teensy or equivalent controller.
Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.
People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.
Ambers are indeed "up in your face". They have a bold click that's pretty noticeable. I've never had a keyboard with Alps Blue switches. I have keyboards with other Alps (Other Apple keyboards), but those are not clicky switches. What I did do, was make a comparison video between my Danger Zone custom 75% + 1 keyboard project with Gateron Blue switches, and my Apple //c keyboard with the Alps Amber switches. The Alps Amber definitely take more force to press passed the click. I personally like it. I used some Shapeways C64 to MX stem adapters and threw some Commodore 64 keys on my Danger Zone keyboard (since the Danger Zone key caps won't show up till next month).
Post by: chyros on Wed, 13 January 2016, 18:50:23
As for the Ambers, they sound pretty good! :) Hard to say if they're louder of course, but they definitely don't sound any softer! xD
Post by: richfiles on Wed, 13 January 2016, 19:01:39
When I first got the Gaterons, I was actually disappointed in the click, cause I thought it sounded too soft, but discovered that seem to be amplified by having a keycap attached to them. The sound is almost more pronounced by the keycap, than the switch with the Gaterons. I don't actually have any other switch types, or keycaps (I'm VERY new to this keyboard stuff), so I really have no other comparisons. The Alps Ambers... The pitch slightly increases, but the volume barely drops with the keycap removed. It's QUITE different from how the Gateron Blues are. It's like they need a keycap to act like a "speaker", while the Ambers speak in "caps lock" all the time! ;D
Post by: umeboshi on Thu, 14 January 2016, 04:51:44
Question for any Alps folks who may have compared modified clicky orange Alps with blue alps? Do they feel close enough to be a poor man's blue alps?They’re definitely different. Different spring and noticeably different click leaf. Same “switchplate” assembly and housing though.
Thanks! Was hard to tell there were differences from the pics that I could find.
I dunno about “poor man’s” – very good condition orange Alps switches are also very nice, and not all that easy to find.
That's true. Was hoping if the clicky oranges were close enough then that might save me from entering the crazy bidding wars that go on for blue alps nowadays... :))
Post by: phosphoric on Tue, 19 January 2016, 16:45:57
if you haven't used stock cream damped switches, they feel kind of mushy and this modification makes them much more pleasant to use. if somebody wants to try it out themself, i have a couple more switches at home and can make a quick guide
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 19 January 2016, 19:11:33
Post by: phosphoric on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:50:48
I believe cream switches without the dampers have basically the same spring, click leaf, and switchplate as salmon switches. I haven’t done a detailed part comparison though, so there might be minor differences.
oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switch
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:58:31
Question for any Alps folks who may have compared modified clicky orange Alps with blue alps? Do they feel close enough to be a poor man's blue alps?
I just installed some modified clicky orange Alps into a minitouch, pretty much exactly like CPTBadAss did: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71855.0, and it feels quite nice :D
Click modded Orange are far more pleasant both in auditory and tactile feedback than Blue Alps to me, but it's all personal preference.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:13:59
It's tricky. Even Alps switches that appear to have exactly or almost exactly the same parts can sound and perform quite radically different. Nowhere near as much as we'd want is know about this family.I believe cream switches without the dampers have basically the same spring, click leaf, and switchplate as salmon switches. I haven’t done a detailed part comparison though, so there might be minor differences.
oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switch
Regardless, I don't think they would skyrocket. AEKs show up often enough, and are not really much more expensive than AEKIIs from what I've seen.
Post by: phosphoric on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:15:16
It's tricky. Even Alps switches that appear to have exactly or almost exactly the same parts can sound and perform quite radically different. Nowhere near as much as we'd want is know about this family.I believe cream switches without the dampers have basically the same spring, click leaf, and switchplate as salmon switches. I haven’t done a detailed part comparison though, so there might be minor differences.
oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switch
Regardless, I don't think they would skyrocket. AEKs show up often enough, and are not really much more expensive than AEKIIs from what I've seen.
i was referring to the price of cream damped alps in general - they generally don't go for much. alps are a tricky switch and i still have so much to learn so youre probably right
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 20 January 2016, 19:35:05
oh really? this is quite intriguing - if it were, true, however, i'd imagine that the price of cream damped switches would skyrocket because taking out the rubber dampeners is not especially challenging or tedious when considering the simplicity of taking apart an alps switchThe prices are more about availability and weird herd behavior, not switch feel.
Salmon switches aren’t anything special, they’re just the tactile (non-clicky) version of early white Alps switches. Early white, salmon, and cream switches are all quite nice, but nothing anyone should be paying out the nose for.
There are a lot of old Apple AEK IIs out there, so pretty much anyone who wants one can have one, so the price is very cheap for what you get. Orange Alps boards are are harder to find, and blue Alps boards harder still, so the prices are steeper.
But anyway, I quite like cream switches, except I think they’re slightly too stiff. If you swap the spring for something a bit lighter, they’re really nice feeling.
The dampeners are a nice bonus feature, especially the top side that cuts the sound of the upstroke.
If you want a nice tactile switch and all you can find is Apple AEK IIs, I wouldn’t recommend removing the dampeners, that’s a waste. Instead, find a white Alps board (great condition white Alps boards are all over eBay), and swap the click leaves into the cream-slider switches, and the tactile leaves into the white-slider switches. You’ll end up with two nice sets of switches, and the dampened clicky ones are pretty unique and interesting.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 21 January 2016, 03:55:01
Did you like the gateron better?Awesome where do you make that plates?
never heard of alps amber at all bro is it that "good" and do you ever use alps blue switch?
LeandreN ran a plate prototyper/group purchase back in... I think it was around October. Used the keyboard layout editor and plate builder online tools to create the layout and the files for the manufacturer. I've got a thread here showing all the details.Have you seen this? http://retroconnector.com/products/apple-ii/keyboard-shield-for-apple-iic-or-iic/
I made one on an experiment board and just used his firmware on a Teensy++, worked like a charm.
I saw that a while back. I'm an electronics guy, so I'll just save some cash and do my own wiring. Schematic to the keyboard is out there, but honestly, It can probably only manage 1-2KRO, as the matrix has no diodes. I'll cut traces and solder in diodes to each switch and take the matrix directly to a Teensy or equivalent controller.Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.
People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.
Ambers are indeed "up in your face". They have a bold click that's pretty noticeable. I've never had a keyboard with Alps Blue switches. I have keyboards with other Alps (Other Apple keyboards), but those are not clicky switches. What I did do, was make a comparison video between my Danger Zone custom 75% + 1 keyboard project with Gateron Blue switches, and my Apple //c keyboard with the Alps Amber switches. The Alps Amber definitely take more force to press passed the click. I personally like it. I used some Shapeways C64 to MX stem adapters and threw some Commodore 64 keys on my Danger Zone keyboard (since the Danger Zone key caps won't show up till next month).
Post by: richfiles on Thu, 21 January 2016, 08:38:16
Quote
Did you like the gateron better?
The Gaterons are nice and they are certainly very smooth.
For that, I like them, but I absolutely LOVE the Alps Amber click.
The Gaterons feel downright weak in comparison.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 21 January 2016, 17:19:58
So you like big phat click eh :))QuoteDid you like the gateron better?
The Gaterons are nice and they are certainly very smooth.
For that, I like them, but I absolutely LOVE the Alps Amber click.
The Gaterons feel downright weak in comparison.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 21 January 2016, 18:41:40
Who could possibly resist the sound of clicky Alps? (http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp129/JonThePon/Smilies/I.png)So you like big phat click eh :))QuoteDid you like the gateron better?
The Gaterons are nice and they are certainly very smooth.
For that, I like them, but I absolutely LOVE the Alps Amber click.
The Gaterons feel downright weak in comparison.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 21 January 2016, 19:19:47
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 21 January 2016, 20:21:14
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!
Exactly what I thought! I bought some switches from a guy on eBay that is supposed to come from an Apple IIc so we'll see once it arrives. :))
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 21 January 2016, 21:04:27
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!CPT you like big phat click too eh? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 21 January 2016, 23:40:48
****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!
Exactly what I thought! I bought some switches from a guy on eBay that is supposed to come from an Apple IIc so we'll see once it arrives. :))
I'm probably one of the few who does not like Amber Alps. I tried them on one of my hotswap Eagle builds not too long ago, and they just weren't for me. I ended up trading them for more SKCM blues.
Here's a typing video of them in the Hammer.
They were incredibly tactile, but I think the carbon fiber plate and really solid case had more to do with it, perhaps. I just didn't like the click sound compared to blues. It's not as refined, but it might be a bit louder, indeed. :)
I might have been influenced by the fact I only had 26-27 loose SKCM blues at the time and desperately wanted to fill by Hammer Alps board with them, but only had enough for the alphas. Using them on the same board together, with Ambers placed everywhere other than the alphas and mods (SKCL browns there), I really did not like them side by side against blues.
Post by: n__dles on Thu, 21 January 2016, 23:41:01
Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.
I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 22 January 2016, 01:05:31
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 02:36:22
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.
Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.
I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 22 January 2016, 02:43:43
If the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :pWhat about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.
I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:07:17
If the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :pWhat about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.
I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
Oooh, yeah. You'd have to look to Acer keyboards, or the original Dells (very annoying to track down outside TaoBao, and then you have stupid shipping costs) or SGI granites for that, if you want standard profile that is. I like AEK caps, but I'm also kinda meh about them due to their odd profile. It's nice, but it doesn't fit the other vintages, literally and aesthetically.
These Tai Hao caps are nice though, mainly because the FAME has a short right shift, and so it fits (I also ANSI-modded mine and eliminated the BAE because I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted and the top of the BAE had no stabilization :P).
The only short shift PBT caps I know of for sure are from the IBM 5140. This one might also be PBT, judging by the case's yellowing. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RB-2001-Clicky-Keyboard-BLUE-Sliders-XT-AT-5-Pin-RARE-MODEL-/181846396766?hash=item2a56e3cf5e:g:bf4AAOSwMmBV3MIY) Not gonna lie, I'd love the 1u key beside the short shift to say "Turbo," that would be sick.
I hear the pad printing on these is very resilient though, and hell, people really like GMK's alt legend keys like Cyrillic, and they are pad printed.
I do agree though, dye subbed PBT would be the best set up for this, and I would also be less scared of shining them. Would be really hard to find though. This one is scarce enough!
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:25:59
All alps caps profile are OEM right? and nope I would not get those ugly AEK capsIf the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :pWhat about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.
I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
Oooh, yeah. You'd have to look to Acer keyboards, or the original Dells (very annoying to track down outside TaoBao, and then you have stupid shipping costs) or SGI granites for that, if you want standard profile that is. I like AEK caps, but I'm also kinda meh about them due to their odd profile. It's nice, but it doesn't fit the other vintages, literally and aesthetically.
These Tai Hao caps are nice though, mainly because the FAME has a short right shift, and so it fits (I also ANSI-modded mine and eliminated the BAE because I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted and the top of the BAE had no stabilization :P).
The only short shift PBT caps I know of for sure are from the IBM 5140. This one might also be PBT, judging by the case's yellowing. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RB-2001-Clicky-Keyboard-BLUE-Sliders-XT-AT-5-Pin-RARE-MODEL-/181846396766?hash=item2a56e3cf5e:g:bf4AAOSwMmBV3MIY) Not gonna lie, I'd love the 1u key beside the short shift to say "Turbo," that would be sick.
I hear the pad printing on these is very resilient though, and hell, people really like GMK's alt legend keys like Cyrillic, and they are pad printed.
I do agree though, dye subbed PBT would be the best set up for this, and I would also be less scared of shining them. Would be really hard to find though. This one is scarce enough!
Post by: henz on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:31:29
(http://i.imgur.com/MlSZEtG.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 03:53:02
All alps caps profile are OEM right? and nope I would not get those ugly AEK capsReally I think it should be called “Alps cylindrical profile”, rather than “OEM profile”. It was copied by Tai Hao and others who were making Alps-compatible keycaps, and only later used for MX-compatible caps.
The Apple/AEK keycaps are a fantastic shape. People have mixed feelings about the legends, but I like them. They’d also be great dyed solid black though.
I also like the keycap shape from the Apple IIGS keyboards, which is even more aggressively stepped.
Standard Alps cylindrical dyesubs:
(http://i.imgur.com/iYZOH5P.jpg)
Tai Hao MX-compatible doubleshots:
(http://i.imgur.com/ruyFmy7.jpg)
“OEM” backlit caps from a gimmicky “gamer” board:
(http://i.imgur.com/Skd3ZQB.jpg)
AEK II:
(http://i.imgur.com/Pg2kjPE.jpg)
Apple IIGS keyboard:
(http://i.imgur.com/xba9vZW.jpg)
(compare to various other profiles at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550)
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 22 January 2016, 04:14:04
Post by: n__dles on Fri, 22 January 2016, 05:11:02
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!I don't think I could resist using them, but would regret it later.
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.I've seen more IBM's than anything else. I actually went with knock of IBM Hebrew caps from Unicomp. I'm glad I couldn't find a set of Imsto's or OG Alps and ended up with the Unicomp, because I'm really happy with this board, but wrong appreciation thread.
True storey, while looking for Hebrew Alps kbds I found this Alps touch-tone keypad from a vendor in Israel.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XmQAAOxySy9STB~W/s-l1600.jpg)
Coincedentally, I needed a touchtone keypad for a project :cool:
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 05:22:16
All alps caps profile are OEM right? and nope I would not get those ugly AEK caps
They are closer and closest to DCS, i'd say. Tai Hao is a little different. They are not 1:1 with either at all. The cap "walls" are much lower on the switch than DCS, which "float" more as they are a bit more shallow.
There was that odd instance of some Alps caps on the Keytrak keyboard that seemed very similar to Cherry doubleshots because of its profile and legend. Now I have seen boards with cherry profile caps, notably the Monterey K101 and NTC 6151N, and I do see them on others, but the legends are different. The lower profile actually gives an incredibly smooth type-feel to Alps, smoother than Alps OG or Tai Hao, though I think those look nicer.
This is also true for AEK caps, I'd say. They are lower profile and the angle makes the type feel very smooth.
I really want to try some spherical Hipro-style Alps caps from the IBM Multistation, but those are rather hard to find. They do come up every so often though.
There's also DSA-like sphericals on certain laptops and I think the TRS-80 as well. Bondwell 8T laptop has them, as well as a certain Toshiba I think.
Overall, I really like OG Alps as it stands. It's my favorite overall, even if the weird Cherry profile ones and AEK add a really nice smoothness.
here is my humble alps64 with matias clickers. It needs a new case(need more angle because im not able to flip the space), hopefully something beefy :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MlSZEtG.jpg)
I like this! Nice SGI caps. :D
Apple IIGS keyboard:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xba9vZW.jpg)
(compare to various other profiles at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550)
Still have my caps from the Apple IIc. I call them top hat caps, haha. I don't like their appearance, but that sculpt is insane!
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 05:26:06
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!I don't think I could resist using them, but would regret it later.I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.I've seen more IBM's than anything else. I actually went with knock of IBM Hebrew caps from Unicomp. I'm glad I couldn't find a set of Imsto's or OG Alps and ended up with the Unicomp, because I'm really happy with this board, but wrong appreciation thread.
True storey, while looking for Hebrew Alps kbds I found this Alps touch-tone keypad from a vendor in Israel.Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XmQAAOxySy9STB~W/s-l1600.jpg)
Coincedentally, I needed a touchtone keypad for a project :cool:
That keypad is brilliant! I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it!
Glad to hear about the Unicomp. I hate using any boards I'm not totally satisfied with.
Hey, I just tried cleaning a couple of my switchs (complicated whites) on my FK-2001, when I put them back together they are completely linear, does anyone know why this is? I put it back together perfectly.
Did you make sure the slider is facing the right way (this shouldn't matter much)? Did you put the click leaves in correctly? D:
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:08:40
Hey, I just tried cleaning a couple of my switchs (complicated whites) on my FK-2001, when I put them back together they are completely linear, does anyone know why this is? I put it back together perfectly.You might have bent the click leaf out of its normal shape, or put the switch back together incorrectly.
If you carefully take apart one of the altered switches and one of the still normal switches, you might be able to figure out the difference between them.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:13:19
MoreIf the hebrew printing is dyesubs it will be perfect :pWhat about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.
I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
Oooh, yeah. You'd have to look to Acer keyboards, or the original Dells (very annoying to track down outside TaoBao, and then you have stupid shipping costs) or SGI granites for that, if you want standard profile that is. I like AEK caps, but I'm also kinda meh about them due to their odd profile. It's nice, but it doesn't fit the other vintages, literally and aesthetically.
These Tai Hao caps are nice though, mainly because the FAME has a short right shift, and so it fits (I also ANSI-modded mine and eliminated the BAE because I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted and the top of the BAE had no stabilization :P).
The only short shift PBT caps I know of for sure are from the IBM 5140. This one might also be PBT, judging by the case's yellowing. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RB-2001-Clicky-Keyboard-BLUE-Sliders-XT-AT-5-Pin-RARE-MODEL-/181846396766?hash=item2a56e3cf5e:g:bf4AAOSwMmBV3MIY) Not gonna lie, I'd love the 1u key beside the short shift to say "Turbo," that would be sick.
I hear the pad printing on these is very resilient though, and hell, people really like GMK's alt legend keys like Cyrillic, and they are pad printed.
I do agree though, dye subbed PBT would be the best set up for this, and I would also be less scared of shining them. Would be really hard to find though. This one is scarce enough!
The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
More****.....all this talk about Amber Alps. I gotta get my hands on some!
Exactly what I thought! I bought some switches from a guy on eBay that is supposed to come from an Apple IIc so we'll see once it arrives. :))
I'm probably one of the few who does not like Amber Alps. I tried them on one of my hotswap Eagle builds not too long ago, and they just weren't for me. I ended up trading them for more SKCM blues.
Here's a typing video of them in the Hammer.
They were incredibly tactile, but I think the carbon fiber plate and really solid case had more to do with it, perhaps. I just didn't like the click sound compared to blues. It's not as refined, but it might be a bit louder, indeed. :)
I might have been influenced by the fact I only had 26-27 loose SKCM blues at the time and desperately wanted to fill by Hammer Alps board with them, but only had enough for the alphas. Using them on the same board together, with Ambers placed everywhere other than the alphas and mods (SKCL browns there), I really did not like them side by side against blues.
I love all things Alps and since I've never tried the Amber switches, I really really want to. Really glad that even after being into Alps switches for years there's still so much more to discover. :D
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:23:50
(http://i.imgur.com/Zt21NKc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TyCd1VK.jpg)
For $38 shipped I couldn’t pass it up; I haven’t seen many multilingual old Apple boards. It should arrive middle of next week.
Also, itzmeluigi bought:
(http://i.imgur.com/nBn4Iew.jpg)
Hopefully he’ll take some more pictures when he gets it.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:27:27
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:29:48
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:30:33
Can pit it in a head-to-head fight against your Taiwanese Acer 6311. The AEK II is definitely heavier though, so maybe not a fair fight.
But the 6311 was slim and had a metal backplate. Might fit better in hand and be a better weapon.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:44:34
The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD
The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 07:47:14
The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD
The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 22 January 2016, 09:43:44
CBA: did you see this thing (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78886)?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zt21NKc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TyCd1VK.jpg)
For $38 shipped I couldn’t pass it up; I haven’t seen many multilingual old Apple boards. It should arrive middle of next week.
Also, itzmeluigi bought:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nBn4Iew.jpg)
Hopefully he’ll take some more pictures when he gets it.
Let us know if those secondary/tertiary legend are pad print or dye sub. If dye sub I might be looking for my own Chinese AEK II!
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 10:18:54
Shine is a really unreliable way to determine ABS tbh. Some ABS shines up quite slowly and some PBT shines up pretty quickly. It also depends on environmental conditions, inherent texture, plastic formulation, etc. You're way better off with an acetone test, it's the only real way to determine it.The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD
The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 12:49:31
Shine is a really unreliable way to determine ABS tbh. Some ABS shines up quite slowly and some PBT shines up pretty quickly. It also depends on environmental conditions, inherent texture, plastic formulation, etc. You're way better off with an acetone test, it's the only real way to determine it.The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD
The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
This might be slightly unrelated, but in my opinion, shine is almost a misnomer of sorts. At least when it comes to vintages. Most of the reason caps shine is due to a loss of texture, and so I'd imagine more surface area that your fingers can polish up upon brushing past them with an innumerable amount of keystrokes. Otherwise, in caps that are still mint, you might see some shine, but only on the raised areas of the textured surface that are actually making contact with your fingers.
Another case in point being that I can use a polishing cloth to remove shine from caps, only to have the shine come back in a few hours because the texture is already worn on the keys.
Both can shine up very quick if the texture is lost. I've got both PBT and ABS examples of this.
I agree, an Acetone test would be best.
Speaking of which, did the guy on Deskthority who ran that mini GB for those small Greek Nan Tan 6581 keyboards ever get back to anyone on whether or not the MCK-101FX he had was actually doubleshot PBT? chzel I think his name was.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 22 January 2016, 12:51:52
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 January 2016, 13:02:44
Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))
Love the PBT life, live the PBT life, no matter what you type on! :thumb:
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 15:48:37
No, as far as I know this is still a mystery...Shine is a really unreliable way to determine ABS tbh. Some ABS shines up quite slowly and some PBT shines up pretty quickly. It also depends on environmental conditions, inherent texture, plastic formulation, etc. You're way better off with an acetone test, it's the only real way to determine it.The caps on western 6311s were thin dyesub ABS, are you sure those are PBT? XD
The Acer 6311 caps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1471182#msg1471182) I have are some of the nicest PBT dyesub caps I've ever used. I usually shy away from PBT too. Highly recommended.
Pretty sure. I shine ABS caps up really fast. These don't have any shine on them yet.
This might be slightly unrelated, but in my opinion, shine is almost a misnomer of sorts. At least when it comes to vintages. Most of the reason caps shine is due to a loss of texture, and so I'd imagine more surface area that your fingers can polish up upon brushing past them with an innumerable amount of keystrokes. Otherwise, in caps that are still mint, you might see some shine, but only on the raised areas of the textured surface that are actually making contact with your fingers.
Another case in point being that I can use a polishing cloth to remove shine from caps, only to have the shine come back in a few hours because the texture is already worn on the keys.
Both can shine up very quick if the texture is lost. I've got both PBT and ABS examples of this.
I agree, an Acetone test would be best.
Speaking of which, did the guy on Deskthority who ran that mini GB for those small Greek Nan Tan 6581 keyboards ever get back to anyone on whether or not the MCK-101FX he had was actually doubleshot PBT? chzel I think his name was.
Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))xD
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Fri, 22 January 2016, 17:27:09
Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))
I was under the impression that only PBT could be dyesubbed am I misinformed?
Post by: FrostyToast on Fri, 22 January 2016, 17:30:15
I mean... that's the oldest trick in the GH book.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 18:53:49
Have people forgot that ABS floats in water and PBT sinks?Yup, and it doesn't work! :P My first ever youtube erratum was because I believed in that nonsense :p .
I mean... that's the oldest trick in the GH book.
It's still not completely sure. I did cut open an ABS cap from a 6312 once though and I showed a picture of how the printing was below-skin, strongly suggesting it was dye-sublimed.Seems like a lot of work to answer a question that won't change much. I'll just keep calling it dyesubbed PBT because there's no shine and it feels rough like all the other PBT caps I've used. I'm ok with being wrong :))
I was under the impression that only PBT could be dyesubbed am I misinformed?
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 19:20:32
Those dyesub Acer caps might not be PBT, but if not I’m not sure what plastic mix they are. Maybe something unique.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 January 2016, 19:58:55
I don’t think regular ABS can handle the dye-sublimation printing process, its melting temperature is too low. If you try to heat ABS to 400 °F or whatever, you’ll end up with a little plastic puddle.ABS is available in many mixtures, maybe it's something related to that. If I still had access to the DSC and TGA I cold find out easily xD .
Those dyesub Acer caps might not be PBT, but if not I’m not sure what plastic mix they are. Maybe something unique.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 01:37:35
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.Haha, thanks man! I thought I saw another Hebrew set, but it ended up being this exact same board, haha.I've seen 2 Hebrew Alps sets, one being your set, in multiple places :)). I regularly search ebay with location set to Israel for 'keyboard' and מקלדת. Mechanical boards are very scarce, in a live auction I've only seen Model Ms. However, there are quite a few Quantum branded rubber domes from that time period.
I'm not sure if not many were made or if they just don't make it onto the interwebs. If anyone has anymore pics or info, please share.
Haha, I know! I am spreading the love for my FAME quite a bit, and then of course, there is the board that they came from, an APC Th-5539, which is a relative of the FAME itself. The board was ridiculously flimsy, but the caps were ace.
Hebrew does seem really hard to find OG, so that's why I'm staying off the FAME and just keeping it as a mantle piece. If I could find a way to display it, I would!
I have seen Hebrew Alps caps one other time on an F XT or F AT layout 83-84 key keyboard.
A great idea actually. SKCM Amber to me is a SKCM Blue with higher tactility. Otherwise they are just as smooooth as SKCM Blues.
Trust me, the FAME is adored :) SKCM Blue with a metal backplate is a great combo imo. Still cant belive that Datatech keyboard sold for $350 although :eek:
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 23 January 2016, 01:54:47
What about we use the amber alps for modifier and blue alps for alpha?
This is not a bad idea actually.
A great idea actually.I don’t get it. For the most part the modifier keys are pressed by weaker fingers. There’s IMO no reason to use extra stiff switches for them.
Maybe use a stiffer switch for a particularly long spacebar, or “big-ass” return key? Otherwise, putting stiff switches on shift, return, tab, etc. seems totally backwards.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 09:20:37
Post by: Pdub on Sat, 23 January 2016, 10:32:53
I don’t think regular ABS can handle the dye-sublimation printing process, its melting temperature is too low. If you try to heat ABS to 400 °F or whatever, you’ll end up with a little plastic puddle.
Those dyesub Acer caps might not be PBT, but if not I’m not sure what plastic mix they are. Maybe something unique.
Correct! And I am not sure what plastic they are either.
Post by: n__dles on Sat, 23 January 2016, 10:50:40
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.Didn't Tai-Hao require that all caps be the same language to reach MOQ? I'd support this regardless, but I'd prefer another manufacturer.
Approximately how much would double shot latin legend and pad printed second legend be at SP be?
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 January 2016, 11:06:13
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.Didn't Tai-Hao require that all caps be the same language to reach MOQ? I'd support this regardless, but I'd prefer another manufacturer.
Approximately how much would double shot latin legend and pad printed second legend be at SP be?
When badwrench got the first Alps set to SP, the full set for latin legends and blue mods was around $150, so DO would likely be even more than that for secondaries.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:16:50
I just wish that SP DCS caps would be thicker cause SP DCS feels like a cheap smaller profile tai hoa keycapsWhen badwrench got the first Alps set to SP, the full set for latin legends and blue mods was around $150, so DO would likely be even more than that for secondaries.I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.Didn't Tai-Hao require that all caps be the same language to reach MOQ? I'd support this regardless, but I'd prefer another manufacturer.
Approximately how much would double shot latin legend and pad printed second legend be at SP be?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 23 January 2016, 17:18:10
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.
Very very interested in Chinese layout caps.
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 25 January 2016, 06:13:50
Wish I know alps before so I can join for the alps pcb GB
Still waiting for my blue alps tho :thumb:
Post by: itzmeluigi on Mon, 25 January 2016, 06:20:07
I am considering contacting Tai Hao about making secondary legends on their Alps keycaps (Chinese, Cyrillic, Hebrew, etc). Is this something that people would be interested in? Tai Hao already has the molds so it would be much cheaper than going with a company like SP.I contacted them a few weeks ago, the MOQ is 500 at $15 per set. Additional languages would each need there own MOQ.
Post by: n__dles on Mon, 25 January 2016, 10:55:48
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 25 January 2016, 20:29:01
(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)
The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp. :confused:
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 25 January 2016, 21:21:36
Or you could probably swap out the inserts for those from another keyboard.
The bigger problem is that those Zenith boards just have stupidly long spacebars.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 00:20:32
(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)
Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.
The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 26 January 2016, 00:32:17
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 26 January 2016, 00:59:13
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tC8MPLs.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)
Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.
The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.
I am more than a little jealous. Caps look like an AEK or AEKII (and the spacebar and mods look right for one of those), but I've only seen black Japanese characters on those.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 02:08:13
Anyone familiar with the stabilizers on Zeniths? This board is really feeling great to type on, but the spacebar stabilizer inserts look to be made of a different material than the other stabilized keys. It has a really jarring, high-pitched, super unpleasant sound when they make contact with the plate. The other stabilized keys make a nice "thock" that sounds like all of the unstabilized keys, but the spacebar sounds like it's just plain mounted wrong or something. I think it's actually the inserts that are the problem? I've double and triple checked the way the stab and inserts sit and the key is definitely mounted and setup correctly, unless there is some fine minutiae that I'm missing with Alps stabs. When the inserts make contact with the plate it sounds like death. Here's a pic of the different materials:I've had something similar on another board. Get one of those spongy square minicloths for in your kitchen. Cut out a small square (<1 cm^2) and cut down its thickness to 1 mm or less. Stick that under the stabs with some double sided tape, should fix it.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)
The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp. :confused:
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:15:19
Caps look like an AEK or AEKII (and the spacebar and mods look right for one of those), but I've only seen black Japanese characters on those.Yes, it’s an AEK II with Taiwanese legends.
I also found (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78886) a Russian one last week, which itzmeluigi bought. Here’s the pic from the ebay auction:
(http://i.imgur.com/nBn4Iew.jpg)
Hopefully he’ll take some closer pictures when he gets it.
Post by: Den441 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:18:39
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tC8MPLs.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)
Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.
The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.
Wow, those caps are amazing! The shade of blue is great. Do you know the model # on that board? I've only seen the ones with black legends as well.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:20:27
(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)
Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition. Some yellowing on spacebar and case. A fair bit of shine on the spacebar, and oddly quite a bit on the left command key. The rest of the keycaps are in good but not perfect condition.
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 26 January 2016, 03:31:00
On the back it looks like any AEK II. Made in USA, FCC ID BCGM3501, bar code *AP15401C%M0312TA*
(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)
Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition.
Apple hardware made in the US - rare these days!
Post by: Den441 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 04:01:33
On the back it looks like any AEK II. Made in USA, FCC ID BCGM3501, bar code *AP15401C%M0312TA*
(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)
Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition. Some yellowing on spacebar and case. A fair bit of shine on the spacebar, and oddly quite a bit on the left command key. The rest of the keycaps are in good but not perfect condition.
Thanks, I love it. The japanese layout on it seems different from the AEKs I have seen with black legends. Can't find anymore info about it though.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 04:05:43
Still made by Asians though :p .On the back it looks like any AEK II. Made in USA, FCC ID BCGM3501, bar code *AP15401C%M0312TA*
(Usually the end bit of the bar code on these is just M3501 or M0312, without the TA. I think M0312)
Cream Alps switches, okay but not amazing condition.
Apple hardware made in the US - rare these days!
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 05:30:27
Anyone familiar with the stabilizers on Zeniths? This board is really feeling great to type on, but the spacebar stabilizer inserts look to be made of a different material than the other stabilized keys. It has a really jarring, high-pitched, super unpleasant sound when they make contact with the plate. The other stabilized keys make a nice "thock" that sounds like all of the unstabilized keys, but the spacebar sounds like it's just plain mounted wrong or something. I think it's actually the inserts that are the problem? I've double and triple checked the way the stab and inserts sit and the key is definitely mounted and setup correctly, unless there is some fine minutiae that I'm missing with Alps stabs. When the inserts make contact with the plate it sounds like death. Here's a pic of the different materials:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)
The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp. :confused:
I would say this is usually a case of a rickety space bar and not so much the stab inserts. In my experience, the brown and black and even translucent white ones have no differences between them, no significant differences anyway. What I would do in your situation if I were you, is lube the wire and stabs. This usually quiets up the sound very well. It was like this on my Focus FK-555. I hated the space bar sound, but after I lubed the stabs (this one had plate-mounted Cherry stabs), it sounded fine again (lubing costar and Alps-style stabs really quiets them too, so I recommend this to everyone). It is true that many with Alps stabs all around use little rubber or foam pads to combat spacebar thwack, so you could look into that too if the lube does not help.
Yeah, space bar inserts are usually different on Alps boards, and they more so have, like, closed in slots where as normal stabs are open-ended. Combined with the cylindrical peg that also helps stabilize the space bar, and it makes putting the space bar on a real PITA.
Haha. Good luck nonetheless, man!
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 05:56:06
So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.
(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)
That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.
BEFORE
(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)
AFTER
(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.
Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P
Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.
(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)
Clockwise, starting from the bottom.
Alps Electric Dell AT101
Tai Hao FAME TH-5539
Focus FK-555
Monterey K101
The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 05:56:29
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 January 2016, 06:28:42
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tC8MPLs.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yxWRBpe.jpg)
Kinda dusty, and definitely not mint condition, but overall in pretty good shape. PBT in general is pretty hard wearing.
The red dye in particular is impressively crisp with very even color. The blue is slightly less even, but it’s not really too noticeable unless you put your eyeball a few inches away.
So I've finally acquired one of my last dream boards, and this one really is a gem. Not only is it very seldomly seen, but I have never seen one in this mint of a condition. Not on Sandy's website, and not in the instances I've seen these on Deskthority and Geekhack (one with Mandolin, the other with Nuum, and before that, fossala). All of those except the ones on Sandy's site also had black cables and what I'd call more simplified FCC stickers and such. Also, some of those examples lacked the Caps Lock/Ctrl swapping swtch (weird quirk, I know) and rubberized flip out feet.
So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)
That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.
BEFOREShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)
AFTERShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.
Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P
Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)
Clockwise, starting from the bottom.
Alps Electric Dell AT101
Tai Hao FAME TH-5539
Focus FK-555
Monterey K101
The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.
So much Alps porn in these two posts. Those AEK caps look so good and I can't believe you found three Blue SKCM boards so quickly E3E!
Post by: henz on Tue, 26 January 2016, 06:34:06
So I've finally acquired one of my last dream boards, and this one really is a gem. Not only is it very seldomly seen, but I have never seen one in this mint of a condition. Not on Sandy's website, and not in the instances I've seen these on Deskthority and Geekhack (one with Mandolin, the other with Nuum, and before that, fossala). All of those except the ones on Sandy's site also had black cables and what I'd call more simplified FCC stickers and such. Also, some of those examples lacked the Caps Lock/Ctrl swapping swtch (weird quirk, I know) and rubberized flip out feet.
So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)
That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.
BEFOREShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)
AFTERShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.
Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P
Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)
Clockwise, starting from the bottom.
Alps Electric Dell AT101
Tai Hao FAME TH-5539
Focus FK-555
Monterey K101
The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.
Sweeet
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 07:07:14
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:49:41
Anyone familiar with the stabilizers on Zeniths? This board is really feeling great to type on, but the spacebar stabilizer inserts look to be made of a different material than the other stabilized keys. It has a really jarring, high-pitched, super unpleasant sound when they make contact with the plate. The other stabilized keys make a nice "thock" that sounds like all of the unstabilized keys, but the spacebar sounds like it's just plain mounted wrong or something. I think it's actually the inserts that are the problem? I've double and triple checked the way the stab and inserts sit and the key is definitely mounted and setup correctly, unless there is some fine minutiae that I'm missing with Alps stabs. When the inserts make contact with the plate it sounds like death. Here's a pic of the different materials:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mWwNYQ7.jpg)
The brown insert on the right is in the caps lock key, sounds excellent. The black insert on the left is the spacebar one, and is unfortunately not interchangeable because of its length. It's seriously the only thing stopping me from making this my daily work board. Send halp. :confused:
I would say this is usually a case of a rickety space bar and not so much the stab inserts. In my experience, the brown and black and even translucent white ones have no differences between them, no significant differences anyway. What I would do in your situation if I were you, is lube the wire and stabs. This usually quiets up the sound very well. It was like this on my Focus FK-555. I hated the space bar sound, but after I lubed the stabs (this one had plate-mounted Cherry stabs), it sounded fine again (lubing costar and Alps-style stabs really quiets them too, so I recommend this to everyone). It is true that many with Alps stabs all around use little rubber or foam pads to combat spacebar thwack, so you could look into that too if the lube does not help.
Yeah, space bar inserts are usually different on Alps boards, and they more so have, like, closed in slots where as normal stabs are open-ended. Combined with the cylindrical peg that also helps stabilize the space bar, and it makes putting the space bar on a real PITA.
Haha. Good luck nonetheless, man!
I'm now an expert at putting on and taking off this gigantic Zenith spacebar! Right now I have some pieces of plastic cut from the backplate (there's a sheet of thick, stiff plastic between the PCB and the metal backplate) taped to the plate with painter's tape and it seems to be working pretty well. Still some tweaking to be done to get it feeling like the other keys on the board, but it's at least usable now :) I also put some of the foam I used on my Model F restoration under the spacebar where the stabilizing peg meets the cap, and where the stem meets the cap, kind of like soft, thin o-rings. I think the peg was slamming down onto the top of the plastic insert that it sits in and that was also pretty jarring.
Great board though, pretty fun to type on for sure. I think the Greens are close to my lubed Gateron Blacks in smoothness, but they're much more snappy. I think a wet lube tests to slow switches down a tad, and the Greens are nice because they feel completely unencumbered. Off-center presses definitely rub a little oddly on some keys, I attribute it to the sprue marks on the side of the stems that makes contact with the switch housing. Not very noticeable unless you're really pressing the key slowly and trying your hardest to pay attention. There's also some brief resistance when the stem meets the contact leaf as it bends out of the way which I find interesting, but that's also not noticeable during regular use.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 14:56:43
There's also some brief resistance when the stem meets the contact leaf as it bends out of the way which I find interesting, but that's also not noticeable during regular use.
Glad to hear that you're really enjoying the Zenith, since I remember your initial impressions weren't the best, haha. That's kind of how I felt with my Focus FK-555, a board I have been hunting for a relatively long time, only to feel that the space bar was cheap-feeling and really icky and plasticy. I popped it off only to see plate-mounted Cherry stabs in WHITE housings of all colors. Just added some lube to the stab wire and now it's A-okay!
Also, I'm loving your ingenuity and resourcefulness with this one too, in using the foam to add dampening and bits of the plastic "shield" between the case and PCB for the space bar thwack, if I understood that correctly.
About the contact leaf remark though, I find that greens and indeed any linear Alps switch has a very minute bit of tactility you can only feel if you really look out for it or push the switch down very slowly. This is just because of how the contact leaf works, I'd say.
A good example is how, in tactile brown switches, they used a dummy plate with a spring leaf clipped onto it (much like the contact leaf) that is very similar to the contact leaf itself. It gives brown tactile switches a really odd sense of tactility. I couldn't feel much of it when I tried the individual switches, but mounted in my board, the story was far different. Very tactile! Not the biggest fan of tactile Alps though, I must admit.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:17:58
And what is the difference between orange and salmon alps?
There is just too much type of alps!
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:20:18
And what is the difference between orange and salmon alps?
In my experience, very little difference. Orange is earlier and preferable, to me.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:22:01
Hows brown tactile compared to orange alps?
And what is the difference between orange and salmon alps?
There is just too much type of alps!
Salmon is stiffer and uses a short contact plate. Orange Alps uses a long contact plate and is quite a bit lighter. Lighter than even blue Alps, but not as light as green linear Alps.
Salmons feel a bit clunky in comparison, though they have a bit more tactility, though not as much as SKCM browns or SKCM ambers.
To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home. By itself, it's pretty tactile, but the bottom out really seems to amplify the feeling, if you ask me. The weight is around 65g I'd say. Orange is around 60g.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:33:19
To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home.Interesting. When you say "rounded", does it feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.
They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.
I'd love to try out brown Alps someday. And amber ones. I've had so many types already, but it's like a Hydra, the more you tick off the list, the more keep popping up for you to try! xD
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:35:05
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:36:32
Are alps really that wobbly? Doesn't have a keycaps to compare the wobblinessCompared to my MX Reds, my complicated white alps do wobble more, but not a huge amount.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:37:25
When you say "rounded", does [brown Alps] feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.Yes, they are quite similar, but the brown ones are substantially stiffer with bigger drop in force after the tactile leaf gives way. This makes it hard to avoid bottoming out pretty hard, and I find them tiring to type on.
Quote
They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.Can you explain what you mean?
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:42:01
I think I'm going to try a Matias board next, either a KBParadise V80 or possibly a Matias board, from what people have told me, Matias switches feel smoother and lighter than Complicated Whites. I'm also thinking of picking up a Dell AT-101 since they are dirt cheap, but the keyboard is too damn huge!
Also thinking of picking up a SGI Graphite keyboard with dampened white alps, love the dye-sub thick PBT keycaps, but it's really yellowed and turned the case green!
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:44:43
To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home.Interesting. When you say "rounded", does it feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.
They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.
I'd love to try out brown Alps someday. And amber ones. I've had so many types already, but it's like a Hydra, the more you tick off the list, the more keep popping up for you to try! xD
Sounds like you've been been having some fun, Chyros! Do you have a Xerox you're wanting to tell us about? Yep, the brown tactiles are related to the SKCM green switches and the tactile design is very similar, though simplified in the SKCM green switch (leaf spring instead of the whole dummy plate assembly). I'd say that SKCM green is to SKCM brown, what SKCM Salmon is to SKCM orange, as they both have short contact plates.
Yes, it definitely has a more solid feel, but really, I only feel it strongly on the bottom out. Without that, the tactility is really just roundeed out and subtle. I don't know why the bottom out seems to create a greater sense of tactility on these, but I can imagine that's why they're always compared to Topre, because of that and the rounded tactility.
Are you saying that Omron used a dummy plate for tactility too? I haven't ever looked into them!
You're so right when it comes to the endless varieties of Alps to try, man. It's hard to catch 'em all! Amber Alps really remind me of how tactile brown Alps feel. It also had a click leaf that was unique from the others I've seen, but it wasn't so much in the same shape as SKCM green or brown. It didn't have a bottom lip and the two forks, if you will, were bent at a sharp right angle compared to other leaves.
It DID feel similar to the feel of switches I've played with whose tactile leaves I bent a bit too sharply, actually.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:48:48
Are alps really that wobbly? Doesn't have a keycaps to compare the wobbliness
Linear alps switches with long contact plates like SKCL green and SKCL brown are less wobbly, I think, because of their symmetrical slider design. It's almost silly to imagine that this contributes to less wobble, but compare to non-symmetrical sliders like on blue and orange Alps, the greens and browns are very stable.
I wouldn't say that Alps are more wobbly than MX though, but my MX memory might be fuzzy.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 20:58:08
I'm quite upset I messed up my FK-2001, still works but I would rather use my completely functional Keycool with MX Reds than a messed up FK-2001. It's all my fault, live and learn I guess. At least I got to try a new switch type.I looked at your post history, and it seems you disassembled one of the switches, cleaned it, and put it back, and now it doesn’t click?
The way a clicky Alps switch works is that when you press down on the slider, the corner of the click leaf gets bent toward the slider, and then when the slider gets past the little legs, the click leaf snaps back against the plastic housing, causing the sound.
(http://i.imgur.com/upQWT.gif)
(This gif exaggerates the amount of twisting the slider will do, because the little groove that it usually tracks has been cut away from the near side. It also doesn’t show the switch being pressed all the way.)
If it’s not clicking, that means either the switch isn’t assembled correctly (e.g. the click leaf isn’t seated properly, the slider is flipped backwards, or similar), something else is inside the switch preventing the leaf from bending away from the wall or snapping back, or the click leaf is bent out of its correct shape.
How are you reassembling the switch? I find that the easiest way when the bottom of the switch is soldered down is to put all the loose parts (slider, click leaf, spring) into the top housing, with the slider pushed in so that the click leaf stays in snugly, flip the whole keyboard upside down, carefully get the spring aligned with the central peg, and then snap the top housing back into the bottom housing with the slider held in with my finger.
(But actually I reassemble these quite a bit faster when they’re not soldered down at all)
If the switch is assembled properly but still not clicking, that means either there’s something else inside there, or the click leaf has been bent out of shape. If you disassemble two switches you can compare their click leaves to see if there’s any obvious difference. If you’re careful you can make subtle changes to the feel of a switch by slightly bending the click leaf one way or another.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 January 2016, 21:00:33
Thank you broAre alps really that wobbly? Doesn't have a keycaps to compare the wobbliness
Linear alps switches with long contact plates like SKCL green and SKCL brown are less wobbly, I think, because of their symmetrical slider design. It's almost silly to imagine that this contributes to less wobble, but compare to non-symmetrical sliders like on blue and orange Alps, the greens and browns are very stable.
I wouldn't say that Alps are more wobbly than MX though, but my MX memory might be fuzzy.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:39:16
I'm quite upset I messed up my FK-2001, still works but I would rather use my completely functional Keycool with MX Reds than a messed up FK-2001. It's all my fault, live and learn I guess. At least I got to try a new switch type.I looked at your post history, and it seems you disassembled one of the switches, cleaned it, and put it back, and now it doesn’t click?
The way a clicky Alps switch works is that when you press down on the slider, the corner of the click leaf gets bent toward the slider, and then when the slider gets past the little legs, the click leaf snaps back against the plastic housing, causing the sound.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/upQWT.gif)
(This gif exaggerates the amount of twisting the slider will do, because the little groove that it usually tracks has been cut away from the near side. It also doesn’t show the switch being pressed all the way.)
If it’s not clicking, that means either the switch isn’t assembled correctly (e.g. the click leaf isn’t seated properly, the slider is flipped backwards, or similar), something else is inside the switch preventing the leaf from bending away from the wall or snapping back, or the click leaf is bent out of its correct shape.
How are you reassembling the switch? I find that the easiest way when the bottom of the switch is soldered down is to put all the loose parts (slider, click leaf, spring) into the top housing, with the slider pushed in so that the click leaf stays in snugly, flip the whole keyboard upside down, carefully get the spring aligned with the central peg, and then snap the top housing back into the bottom housing with the slider held in with my finger.
(But actually I reassemble these quite a bit faster when they’re not soldered down at all)
If the switch is assembled properly but still not clicking, that means either there’s something else inside there, or the click leaf has been bent out of shape. If you disassemble two switches you can compare their click leaves to see if there’s any obvious difference. If you’re careful you can make subtle changes to the feel of a switch by slightly bending the click leaf one way or another.
Thanks, but I have tried swapping click leaves and sliders from other switches but nothing seems to help, I should also mention there is no tactility at all either, completely linear. sometimes with a very weak click, tried reversing the sliders, nothing.
I've done it to multiple switches, if it was just one I wouldn't feel so bad :L, thankfully none of the alphabetical keys.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:41:11
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 23:48:04
So I've finally acquired one of my last dream boards, and this one really is a gem. Not only is it very seldomly seen, but I have never seen one in this mint of a condition. Not on Sandy's website, and not in the instances I've seen these on Deskthority and Geekhack (one with Mandolin, the other with Nuum, and before that, fossala). All of those except the ones on Sandy's site also had black cables and what I'd call more simplified FCC stickers and such. Also, some of those examples lacked the Caps Lock/Ctrl swapping swtch (weird quirk, I know) and rubberized flip out feet.
So this one is flawless, and the only Alps board I've gotten to date that needs no sort of restoration whatsoever. No rust, no scratches, and no yellowing and a the cable's coil are in perfect condition. Of course, now I don't want to type on it because of this. Lol. I retired my FAME because of its Hebrew caps, and now I don't want to use this because it's too clean. Sooo both of my metal backed boards are retired.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)
That said, I also picked up a Leading Edge DC-3014 which needed some TLC on the plastics, though its plate was fine, and I don't mind using it! So it's definitely my daily driver in the vintage world now. Blue Alps, NKRO, made in Korea, and using my Dell AT101's PBT caps. Feels nice, man.
BEFOREShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/9GhHZpI.jpg)
AFTERShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Use parts from the DC-2014 to fix things up--the cable and the logo mainly, since the logo on the DC-3014 started to fade after retrobrighting.
Yep! I hear that retrobrighting only lasts for around half a decade before the yellowing returns--I'm hoping not to see this in the boards I've restored, but it's one reason I don't mind using them either. Since the FK-555 has never been yellowed, I don't want to expose it. Plus, the case is amazingly texture. I don't want my palms rubbing up against it and shining it up. :P
Finally, a group shot of all my like-cased keyboards. All big-foot reminiscent. All but the AT101 have blue Alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LJuF0NG.jpg)
Clockwise, starting from the bottom.
Alps Electric Dell AT101
Tai Hao FAME TH-5539
Focus FK-555
Monterey K101
The AT101's cable is phenomenal. Just ridiculously long, even in the coils alone.
The ultimate Alps porn lol. Nice man! Just finished my SKCM Orange SGI AT101 swap. Still needs some retrobrite.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 January 2016, 02:40:21
Haha, I wish I had a Xerox like that! No, I just have loose SKCM neon green (got a whole bunch of switches recently). No SKCM brown though xD .To me, brown tactiles are a little hard to describe. The tactility has a rounded feel and the bottom out brings it home.Interesting. When you say "rounded", does it feel a little bit like SKCM neon green perhaps? Although I'd imagine with stronger tactility.
They're a very interesting switch design. Although Alps gave it up as soon as they could, Omron stuck with it. It's interesting to see how the two families diverged from a common ancestor.
I'd love to try out brown Alps someday. And amber ones. I've had so many types already, but it's like a Hydra, the more you tick off the list, the more keep popping up for you to try! xD
Sounds like you've been been having some fun, Chyros! Do you have a Xerox you're wanting to tell us about? Yep, the brown tactiles are related to the SKCM green switches and the tactile design is very similar, though simplified in the SKCM green switch (leaf spring instead of the whole dummy plate assembly). I'd say that SKCM green is to SKCM brown, what SKCM Salmon is to SKCM orange, as they both have short contact plates.
Yes, it definitely has a more solid feel, but really, I only feel it strongly on the bottom out. Without that, the tactility is really just roundeed out and subtle. I don't know why the bottom out seems to create a greater sense of tactility on these, but I can imagine that's why they're always compared to Topre, because of that and the rounded tactility.
Are you saying that Omron used a dummy plate for tactility too? I haven't ever looked into them!
You're so right when it comes to the endless varieties of Alps to try, man. It's hard to catch 'em all! Amber Alps really remind me of how tactile brown Alps feel. It also had a click leaf that was unique from the others I've seen, but it wasn't so much in the same shape as SKCM green or brown. It didn't have a bottom lip and the two forks, if you will, were bent at a sharp right angle compared to other leaves.
It DID feel similar to the feel of switches I've played with whose tactile leaves I bent a bit too sharply, actually.
Omron used a similar design with a tactile contact leaf, yes, but the dummy plate is part of the housing.
Post by: venyv on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:02:04
Post by: Lepidus on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:04:27
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.
Plate holes and pin positions on the PCB are different. :(
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:34:08
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 January 2016, 08:40:43
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 January 2016, 09:13:51
Will a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.
There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.
Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.
In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.
Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.
I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.
I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:02:16
It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switchesWill a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.
Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.
In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.
Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.
I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.
I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
Post by: njbair on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:41:55
It's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switchesWill a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.
Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.
In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.
Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.
I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.
I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:02:30
Now thats cool! We need a GB for case and this AlpsMX pcb and plate and that would be awesomeIt's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switchesWill a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.
Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.
In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.
Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.
I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.
I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:02:09
More
Now thats cool! We need a GB for case and this AlpsMX pcb and plate and that would be awesomeIt's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switchesWill a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.
Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.
In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.
Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.
I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.
I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
Alps/MX plates work great, but I’d recommend only using them with a PCB that you can firmly solder switches down to. For hand wiring, go for the standard square / rectangular switch holes.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:14:50
It's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.
Yep, JD's typical plate design for MX switches includes notches that also allow Alps switches as seen in LeandereN's universal 60% plates, of which I'm using two carbon fiber variants for my Duck Eagle builds w/ Alps. The only reason they work for me is because the Alps DCS modifiers from Badwrench fit perfectly with Cherry stabs, and because I stem-swapped a Gateron 7u PBT space bar. The Tai Hao Alps caps with the 6.25u space bars fit flawlessly though.
It's also in my experience that Alps keys require less stabilization than MX keys, imo. I've used every key except the space bar, of course, without stabilization (I don't think I've used the long right shift this way thought) on my Infinity and when I experimented on one of my Eagle builds with no negative result. A marginal loss in smoothness, but the keys worked fine and there was no seesawing or anything like that.
-
As to the plates that have this design. JDCarpe's designs have them typically AFAIK, the Infinity keyboard has this design, the landmark titanium plates that were sold a year and some time ago have them, and the plates on the LZ/LifeZone's custom boards seem to all have this style of notched plate design.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 27 January 2016, 22:33:21
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 28 January 2016, 02:44:55
[Just a side note: you guys don’t need to quote the full context of 4–5 messages that everyone can already see immediately above in order to make a short response. Or if you want you can use a 'more' tag if you really think a large amount of context is necessary. :-) For example:Thank you for the suggestion bro I will use the trick :thumb:More]Now thats cool! We need a GB for case and this AlpsMX pcb and plate and that would be awesomeIt's been done. And this has the added benefit of allowing MX switch tops to be removed. But it's not done often.It's cool if someone could make a plate that support both switchesWill a Alps switch fit in a MX board or is that to broad of a question? Sorry for the newbie question I have never used Alps.There are PCBs that were made to specifically accomodate both, both vintage and current, but discounting these specialised plates they are not compatible, no.
Yep, in terms of vintages, my FAME TH-5539 keyboard and NTC 6151N keyboards both support MX, obviously not when it comes to the plate, but the PCB supports plate-mounted MX switches.
In terms of modern, my Duck Eagle PCBs support MX and Alps, plate or PCB mounted on the MX side, and there's also the Infinity keyboard which supports both as does its cousin, the Infinity ErgoDox.
Leeku made a fullsize MXAlps PCB for Cherry 3000 boards, I think? My OG Cherry knowledge is kind of limited, but I know he made one that supported both and it wasn't the Alphas PCB.
I'm thinking the new VE.A will have both MX and Alps in the same board, but I could be wrong.
I like calling boards that support Cherry MX and Alps SKCM/SKCL "MXAlps" boards, just FYI. It's got a nice ring to it~
Alps/MX plates work great, but I’d recommend only using them with a PCB that you can firmly solder switches down to. For hand wiring, go for the standard square / rectangular switch holes.
Also, the upcoming JD45 and revised JD40 PCBs will support both Alps and MX switches. :)Yay, Can you make some TKL or 60% board bro? :p
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 30 January 2016, 00:37:06
I've been told Matias switches are quite smoother and a bit lighter so I might give them a try in the future.
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 30 January 2016, 01:14:48
I've determined I don't really like Complicated White ALPS that much, [...] I've been told Matias switches are quite smoother and a bit lighterClicky Matias switches and white Alps switches are pretty similar.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 08:20:15
I agree. I didn't realize how similar they were until I built my Alps Party HHKB with Matias Clicks.I've determined I don't really like Complicated White ALPS that much, [...] I've been told Matias switches are quite smoother and a bit lighterClicky Matias switches and white Alps switches are pretty similar.
My first Alps experience was a new old stock Unitek white Alps board I bought here on GH. I didn't like them at first, either. I thought they were too wobbly and I didn't like the tactile feel. I thought the actuation force was too hard--not the spring weight, mind you, but the force required to push past the bump. So I set the board aside.
My next Alps board was the alps64 AEKII I built from Nubbinator's plate buy. I used orange Alps from an Apple IIGS keyboard. I fell in love right away. The action was so smooth on those switches that I didn't mind the Alps wobble at all. In fact, I came to appreciate it. Thanks to their wobbliness, Alps have a much more forgiving "angle of attack," so that if you strike a key off-center it's less likely to bind. This makes for, I think, a much more fluid stock typing experience than all but the most meticulously-lubed MX switches.
After a while with the orange Alps I decided to give that old white Alps board another try, and this go around I liked white Alps a lot more. They have an almost "crunchy" feel unlike any other switch I've tried. Not scratchy, but crunchy. The up-down motion is smooth but the push past the bump feels like it actually comprises multiple small bumps. This unique action, combined with the higher actuation point, makes clicky Alps pretty much the only switches where I don't have to bottom out as I type.
The other thing I've noticed about Alps is that they don't need super thick keycaps to feel good. Their smoothness makes up for the lower overall weight. We obviously don't have a GMK class of keycaps for Alps, but I don't really think we need one. The Tai Hao OEM keycaps feel just fine on the Alps boards I've tried, as do SP DCS.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:08:32
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:25:52
I am the original owner of an old Dell from the late-1990s with blacks and it still feels fine.
Whites seem stiff to me, but "Mr Northgate" Bob Tibbetts thinks that white and blue are pretty much the same and that lust for blue is pure hype ....
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:31:37
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:43:29
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now
I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.
Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:51:02
Alps are all different, and dirt, wear, etc, can all effect them.I've never heard of anyone equating whites and blues. I mean, other than the fact that they both click. But I will say I have noticed a difference among whites on different boards, so maybe some of them are closer to blues than others.
I am the original owner of an old Dell from the late-1990s with blacks and it still feels fine.
Whites seem stiff to me, but "Mr Northgate" Bob Tibbetts thinks that white and blue are pretty much the same and that lust for blue is pure hype ....
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:55:16
Sure thing bro!I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now
I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.
Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR
Here is the mod : http://imgur.com/a/pgWh2/embed
Post by: E3E on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:57:41
I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now
I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.
Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR
Alps modding is a joy! No need to feel shy about it. Pop those puppies open! I've not click modded my oranges, but I do hear that they're quite good. :D
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:02:39
Great, now I've got to decide whether I want to do this on my next orange Alps build. Maybe I'll do one or two and try to compare them to my blues before committing to the whole batch.I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now
I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.
Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR
Alps modding is a joy! No need to feel shy about it. Pop those puppies open! I've not click modded my oranges, but I do hear that they're quite good. :D
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:07:43
They are really good!I mod an orange alps into clicky and I ****in love the switch even better now
I have always resisted opening up Alps switches but I have a least a keyboard's worth of orange that I have been thinking of modding like that.
I would love to have a source for something equal to or better than blues, since they are so expensive and are not always in perfect condition, either.
Would you mind pointing me to the instructions for that mod? This thread has gotten to be a wall of TL;DR
Alps modding is a joy! No need to feel shy about it. Pop those puppies open! I've not click modded my oranges, but I do hear that they're quite good. :D
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 11:23:31
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 January 2016, 12:12:26
In fact I prefer my NeXT with Blacks as opposed to several boards with Whites.Late or early black Alps? The difference is night and day, I've found.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 12:12:42
In fact I prefer my NeXT with Blacks as opposed to several boards with Whites.
Avatar doesn't check out.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 January 2016, 12:31:42
That's not an Alps switch though ;) .In fact I prefer my NeXT with Blacks as opposed to several boards with Whites.
Avatar doesn't check out.
Post by: n__dles on Sat, 30 January 2016, 18:44:22
Avatar doesn't check out.Yours doesn't either. (http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/SomsSUBDirectory/offenderDetails.jsp?offenderid=20653)
Post by: njbair on Sat, 30 January 2016, 18:49:22
Wow. I had no idea.Avatar doesn't check out.Yours doesn't either. (http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/SomsSUBDirectory/offenderDetails.jsp?offenderid=20653)
Now I'm thinking about changing my avatar. Thanks a lot...
Post by: sean on Sat, 30 January 2016, 23:37:46
Powerglove, not even once.Wow. I had no idea.Avatar doesn't check out.Yours doesn't either. (http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/SomsSUBDirectory/offenderDetails.jsp?offenderid=20653)
Now I'm thinking about changing my avatar. Thanks a lot...
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 16:15:00
I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.
I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.
Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 16:41:58
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?
I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.
I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.
Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?
The board I got my Hebrew caps for my FAME (also a Tai Hao board but so much better built) was a Tai Hao APC TH-5539 and was flimsy as all hell with a plastic plate and a deceptive black back that looked metallic to me, in pictures, but turned out to just be plastic. The switches don't seem bad, but I just am quite bleh about that board because of its quality.
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 16:50:18
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?
I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.
I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.
Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?
The board I got my Hebrew caps for my FAME (also a Tai Hao board but so much better built) was a Tai Hao APC TH-5539 and was flimsy as all hell with a plastic plate and a deceptive black back that looked metallic to me, in pictures, but turned out to just be plastic. The switches don't seem bad, but I just am quite bleh about that board because of its quality.
That's the thing. the board they came from was complete trash. the plastic plate, the crap case, the key caps, the PCB, the stabilizers were all garbage.
But looking at the switches, other than not being the smoothest or perfectly built, the switches don't seem that bad once I fix them.
I just hope its not in vain and they stay this way after some use
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 31 January 2016, 17:10:29
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps? [...] Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent. ¶ I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place. ¶ Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels?
What do you mean by “worth”? If you like them, go for it! They shouldn’t change rapidly. On the other hand, I find these switches are often not the most reliable electrically. The contact mechanism is simple, and the cheaper of these types of switches can corrode and your signal will get bouncy.
If you overall like the general switch concept, but you want something more consistent, a bit more solid feeling, and more reliable, you could get a cheap early white Alps board from ~1990–1994 (often can find them in good condition for ~$30 shipped on eBay, or cheaper if you visit an e-cycler or similar).
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 17:13:17
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?
I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent.
I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place.
Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels? or was the wierdness just from bad manufacturing?
The board I got my Hebrew caps for my FAME (also a Tai Hao board but so much better built) was a Tai Hao APC TH-5539 and was flimsy as all hell with a plastic plate and a deceptive black back that looked metallic to me, in pictures, but turned out to just be plastic. The switches don't seem bad, but I just am quite bleh about that board because of its quality.
That's the thing. the board they came from was complete trash. the plastic plate, the crap case, the key caps, the PCB, the stabilizers were all garbage.
But looking at the switches, other than not being the smoothest or perfectly built, the switches don't seem that bad once I fix them.
I just hope its not in vain and they stay this way after some use
Man, all the power to you if you end up making them feel awesome and they end up more consistent. I love seeing appreciation toward the less appreciated switches.
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 17:15:47
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps? [...] Ive found that the clickyness and force to actuate is far from consistent. ¶ I have opened a few, bent the leafs, reassembled, and found a happy place. ¶ Are these worth modifying each individual leaf? Will they slowly return to their weak and inconsistent levels?
What do you mean by “worth”? If you like them, go for it! They shouldn’t change rapidly. On the other hand, I find these switches are often not the most reliable electrically. The contact mechanism is simple, and the cheaper of these types of switches can corrode and your signal will get bouncy.
If you overall like the general idea, but you want something more consistent, a bit more solid feeling, and more reliable, you could get a cheap early white Alps board (often can find them in good condition for ~$30 shipped on eBay, or cheaper if you visit an e-cycler or similar).
By worth it, I meant, would my effort be wasted on a rapidly degrading shoddy switch mechanism.
I feel a little silly for not just buying known quality switches, but I don't make a lot of money and its not going to be cheap to get another case, plate, pcb, and keycaps.
On the other hand, if I do buy all the other components and end up with a ghosting mess of a keyboard, I will be upset at myself for using those bad switches in the first place.
Post by: frogthejam19 on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:13:30
someone must have really wanted orange alps really badly lol.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:16:36
Post by: frogthejam19 on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:23:21
Whoa, what? I was watching that one and expecting it to go for like $50–70. It is a really nice keyboard, but two bidders throwing $500 at it seems quite extreme.
I guess the person really wanted orange alps
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:33:06
expecting it to go for like $50–70. It is a really nice keyboard, but two bidders throwing $500 at it seems quite extreme.
I would have said that $50-$70 was the going rate for a nice not-too-yellowed one with low serial number and sure orange. And perhaps twice that for new-in-box.
If somebody had said that it had cracked $200 I would have been very surprised.
Anybody who wants my immaculate M0115 (with original cable) for $500 is quite welcome to send me a PM. I will ship it for free.
Co-incidentally, this morning I decided to swim in Alps waters for a while and pulled down my black Dell AT101W with orange Alps and PBT caps (with a weight bar from an early one cobbled in, along with case padding). This is a very nice keyboard and true-ANSI to boot.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 January 2016, 18:42:39
Have any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?I've tried Type OA2, Type T4, Type T5, and Xiang Min KSB-C, as well as Matiases (only the first three in a board). From my experience, the clones with the copper leaves are considerably inferior to those that use the full-size steel leaves; Type OA2s in particular do relatively well and aren't bad switches. The large contacts seem to feel better than simplified-style ones, too (which have a second tactile point).
I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
I also recently got some of the red-and-black, mysterious LARB01 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/USw_LARB01) switches. They have a bizarre feel where any and all resistance seem to completely vanish after the tactile bump, almost as if there isn't a coil spring in the board at all. Although I don't think these have been found in any keyboard at all, I'd very much like to try these out properly sometime.
Do your switches have the copper leaf or the steel type?
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:11:09
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231821687788?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
someone must have really wanted orange alps really badly lol.
Oh my goodness.
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:14:25
It uses 2 individual contact plates and 1 copper leafHave any of you beautiful people used any fake Alps?I've tried Type OA2, Type T4, Type T5, and Xiang Min KSB-C, as well as Matiases (only the first three in a board). From my experience, the clones with the copper leaves are considerably inferior to those that use the full-size steel leaves; Type OA2s in particular do relatively well and aren't bad switches. The large contacts seem to feel better than simplified-style ones, too (which have a second tactile point).
I got a crappy Levetron keyboard from a friend to disassemble and learn soldering basics.
This board has these specific knock offs. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_APC_series)
I also recently got some of the red-and-black, mysterious LARB01 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/USw_LARB01) switches. They have a bizarre feel where any and all resistance seem to completely vanish after the tactile bump, almost as if there isn't a coil spring in the board at all. Although I don't think these have been found in any keyboard at all, I'd very much like to try these out properly sometime.
Do your switches have the copper leaf or the steel type?
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:14:34
I would have said that $50-$70 was the going rate for a nice not-too-yellowed one with low serial number and sure orange. And perhaps twice that for new-in-box.This is “I doubt it was ever used”, loose in “not the original” box, with no cord. If it was really NIB I also wouldn’t be surprised at $150.
Post by: venyv on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:15:41
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:19:41
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231821687788?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
someone must have really wanted orange alps really badly lol.
Oh my goodness.
Please let this be shenanigans, because if it's not, it's just utter insanity.
What is going on in the keyboard world lately. Let me list my Focus FK-555 for
-
No, I could never sell any of my keyboards.
How well do the alps to mx adapter work? Do they make the key stick up any higher or wobbly?
They will always cause the key cap to sit higher up due to the nature of Alps sliders vs MX caps.
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:23:35
Make this a handwiring project. you know for the fun of it.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:37:53
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:57:16
(http://i.imgur.com/HSLZs7f.jpg)
Very curious to see if the winner pays.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:58:33
I messaged the seller asking if the winner has paid yet and got this response:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HSLZs7f.jpg)
Very curious to see if the winner pays.
The Alps game is getting Cherry cray cray.
It's like the bidders are piranhas lost in a feeding frenzy.
This reminds me of that AT101W that went for, what, >$130 or something? xD
Not to get too off topic, but on the subject of Alps appreciation, did you manage to nab that black FK-2001, Chyros? D:
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 19:59:21
I messaged the seller asking if the winner has paid yet and got this response:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HSLZs7f.jpg)
Very curious to see if the winner pays.
That keyboard is almost more than my computer.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 January 2016, 20:15:52
Not to get too off topic, but on the subject of Alps appreciation, did you manage to nab that black FK-2001, Chyros? D:Urgh, no, unfortunately D: . It didn't even go for that much in the end, ironically enough. Shame, probably the best-looking keyboard I've ever seen :( .
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:07:38
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:10:16
Post by: njbair on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:24:34
LOL $510? I don't even pay $40 for one hahahaI think I bought two for $40 in a GB on here a while back? No more than $50 IIRC.
Can someone contact the buyer and let them know I have a red OG Cherry ESC key I'd like to sell them...
Post by: Moistgun on Sun, 31 January 2016, 21:43:32
You might need to open an offshore accountLOL $510? I don't even pay $40 for one hahahaI think I bought two for $40 in a GB on here a while back? No more than $50 IIRC.
Can someone contact the buyer and let them know I have a red OG Cherry ESC key I'd like to sell them...
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 02:29:31
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 05:48:22
I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal? :))No :P .
But maybe you like lighter switches ;) .
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 05:59:52
Can you tell me what a good converter for this chicony 5161?I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal? :))No :P .
But maybe you like lighter switches ;) .
it have xt/at cable
I don't know man but the more I type on it it feels better :eek:
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:13:38
If you have a PS/2 port a cheap, simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should work fine, if not you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards. Orihalcon's are not cheap, but they're very good.Can you tell me what a good converter for this chicony 5161?I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal? :))No :P .
But maybe you like lighter switches ;) .
it have xt/at cable
I don't know man but the more I type on it it feels better :eek:
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:15:35
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:18:54
you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards.
Or get seriously serious and build yourself one of these:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717
(and while you are in there, hook up the 5th wire from the AT socket to PD7 on the Teensy for the "reset" connection for DC-2014s and the like)
Post by: njbair on Mon, 01 February 2016, 08:11:46
This is still on my to-do list. One day...you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards.
Or get seriously serious and build yourself one of these:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717
(and while you are in there, hook up the 5th wire from the AT socket to PD7 on the Teensy for the "reset" connection for DC-2014s and the like)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 09:30:43
I like orange alps but I hate blue alps am I normal? :))
Give your self some time, man! They are the kinds of switches that grow on ya!
If you have a PS/2 port a cheap, simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter should work fine, if not you might want to invest in a proper converter, especially if you plan on getting more old boards. Orihalcon's are not cheap, but they're very good.
Orihalcon's are amazing. I bought one for the expressed purpose of using NKRO with the DC-3014.
I'm not sure if all the steps in the conversion process or what create some sort of delay or if it's just in the polling rate of these vintage keyboards, but none of my vintage keyboards seem as snappily responsive as my modern keyboards. Press a key and there's a tiny fraction of a second delay (noticeable in rhythm games).On my Hammer Alps board for instance, it's more perceivable as instantaneous. :B
I do go straight to USB as I use a DTR laptop so I have no PS/2. :P
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 10:50:10
Using the terminology that Platy originated I'm calling the process of mixing in matias qc components as "smoking" (due to the gray color of the slider).
I used Orange, Salmon and Damped Cream switches in two different configurations:
- Partial Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf with a quiet click tactile leaf.
- Full Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf and spring with the quiet click tactile leaf and spring
Overall I was actually really impressed with the results, with my three favorites being: Partially Smoked Orange, Fully Smoked Salmon, and the Complicated Quiet Click.
Partially Smoked Orange - The slightly lighter spring along with the older model switchplate in the oranges made for a very nice compliment to the newer and crisper tactile leaf from the quiet click.
Fully Smoked Salmon - This was a super crisp and slightly aggressive switch. The combination of later model complicated switchplate, the quiet click's tactile leaf and the undamped slider makes for a super crisp and crunchy feel. I think in the long term it would actually be easier (and cheaper) to use SKCM Whites as the donor. I'll have to look into it.
Complicated Quiet Click - This and the fully smoked cream were pretty similar, but I prefer the dampeners on the quiet clicks (could be age related). The end result is a slightly less wobbly (the switchplate on a qc has only one touch point on the slider) and more consistent feeling quiet click.
I'm going to build my first Alps Party board with Complicated Quiet Clicks and see how I like it vs. my v60 with quiet clicks.
Action pic!
(http://i.imgur.com/EAAaViw.jpg)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:36:49
Post by: mseaworthy on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:38:02
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:44:18
I spent a bunch of time this weekend making a number of different franken-alps switches by mixing in parts from newer matias switches (right now only quiet clicks, but I'm tempted to get some clicky switches and mess with those too).
Using the terminology that Platy originated I'm calling the process of mixing in matias qc components as "smoking" (due to the gray color of the slider).
I used Orange, Salmon and Damped Cream switches in two different configurations:Additionally I make what I'll refer to as the "complicated quiet click" which swaps the entire guts of a quiet click into a damped cream saving only the complicated switchplate.
- Partial Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf with a quiet click tactile leaf.
- Full Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf and spring with the quiet click tactile leaf and spring
Overall I was actually really impressed with the results, with my three favorites being: Partially Smoked Orange, Fully Smoked Salmon, and the Complicated Quiet Click.
Partially Smoked Orange - The slightly lighter spring along with the older model switchplate in the oranges made for a very nice compliment to the newer and crisper tactile leaf from the quiet click.
Fully Smoked Salmon - This was a super crisp and slightly aggressive switch. The combination of later model complicated switchplate, the quiet click's tactile leaf and the undamped slider makes for a super crisp and crunchy feel. I think in the long term it would actually be easier (and cheaper) to use SKCM Whites as the donor. I'll have to look into it.
Complicated Quiet Click - This and the fully smoked cream were pretty similar, but I prefer the dampeners on the quiet clicks (could be age related). The end result is a slightly less wobbly (the switchplate on a qc has only one touch point on the slider) and more consistent feeling quiet click.
I'm going to build my first Alps Party board with Complicated Quiet Clicks and see how I like it vs. my v60 with quiet clicks.
Action pic!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EAAaViw.jpg)
I love your experimentation here. I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends. I should consider whittling down some chopsticks or something.
Fully smoked salmon sounds both delicious and pretty awesome as do the complicated quiet clicks.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:58:05
I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends.Flatten the ends of some cocktail sticks and you don't need to use the toothpicks (and you don't bend them out as far as you do with normal cocktail sticks - don't worry too much about that though, Alps can definitely take it ;) ). You can just stick them in and pull them out quickly again, takes the top housing with it. You can open switches in half a second like that.
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:08:33
I love your experimentation here. I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends. I should consider whittling down some chopsticks or something.
Fully smoked salmon sounds both delicious and pretty awesome as do the complicated quiet clicks.
I open them all up by hand with my fingernails. After a few hundred it does hurt a little :D
Post by: njbair on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:26:39
For switch opening, it would be cool to have some kind of flat pliers that could simultaneously wedge open the clips and grip on the upper housing to aid in removal. Maybe something made out of a flat piece of spring steel.
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:39:32
I love your experimentation here. I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends. I should consider whittling down some chopsticks or something.
Fully smoked salmon sounds both delicious and pretty awesome as do the complicated quiet clicks.
I open them all up by hand with my fingernails. After a few hundred it does hurt a little :D
Just use tweezers lol
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:45:46
Awesome mods, jbondeson. Thanks for sharing the info. I agree it would be cheaper to use whites instead of salmon, but "smoked whites" doesn't sound as cool.
For switch opening, it would be cool to have some kind of flat pliers that could simultaneously wedge open the clips and grip on the upper housing to aid in removal. Maybe something made out of a flat piece of spring steel.
Toasted marshmallows!
I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends.Flatten the ends of some cocktail sticks and you don't need to use the toothpicks (and you don't bend them out as far as you do with normal cocktail sticks - don't worry too much about that though, Alps can definitely take it ;) ). You can just stick them in and pull them out quickly again, takes the top housing with it. You can open switches in half a second like that.
Yes, I recall seeing this mentioned in another thread, haha. Yeah, I'll have to find an equivalent in using shaved down chopsticks or just go find some cocktail sticks. I've got quite a few chopsticks.
Post by: frogthejam19 on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:27:49
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:34:26
I want a blue alps board that I can harvest for the switches.
Me too
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:49:10
Mechmarket is a little dry for alps plates.
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 13:55:27
Additionally, the matias switches has a nasty (and very thick) grease applied unevenly through the switches. So if you're going to do any of these frankenalps I'd suggest a very thorough cleaning of both switches and re-lubricating with a more alps-friendly lubricant.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 14:10:32
I want a blue alps board that I can harvest for the switches.
Me too
You MONSTERS!
>:D >:D >:D
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:00:07
What have these poor boards ever done to these people? D:I want a blue alps board that I can harvest for the switches.Me too
You MONSTERS!
>:D >:D >:D
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:04:27
What have these poor boards ever done to these people?
They have frustrated us by attempting to force us to use impossibly annoying layouts while monopolizing precious switches.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:05:22
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:13:18
decide whether or not I cannibalize them
I am starting to wonder whether click-modded orange might be as good or better, based on numerous comments.
After taking them apart, where they could be thoroughly examined for top specimens, then cleaned and lubed, I could easily see them being superior to raw blues in a questionable state.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:20:24
decide whether or not I cannibalize them
I am starting to wonder whether click-modded orange might be as good or better, based on numerous comments.
After taking them apart, where they could be thoroughly examined for top specimens, then cleaned and lubed, I could easily see them being superior to raw blues in a questionable state.
Subjectivity is something that should be taken into consideration. Better is just a matter of perception. This is how hype trains get started.
Also take into account that the likelyhood for people to think positively of click modded oranges is high considering the high prices and scarcity of blues compared to orange Alps.
So it's easy to be biased and say "yep, these are much better! Screw trying to find blue Alps!'
That said, orange alps are quite good. :P
Post by: njbair on Mon, 01 February 2016, 16:58:41
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 01 February 2016, 17:05:10
I love orange Alps. I click modded a couple loose ones during my lunch hour today and, at least loose, they feel pretty similar to blues. It's not really a loud click, just enough to reinforce the tactile bump. I'm convinced enough that I'm probably going to build my Alps Party ANSI board with click-modded oranges.
Completely agree. Blue Alps make a harsher click while click modded Orange Alps have a noticeable but less severe click. They're almost like a smoother, more tactile, and more consistent MX white.
I've not been impressed with White Alps. Then again, I don't like clicky switches.
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 18:00:30
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 01 February 2016, 19:24:36
One interesting note (which i would show if I actually had a macro lens :rolleyes:) is that you cannot put a leaf from a complicated switch into a matias housing as the legs are ever so slightly longer on a complicated leaf.Why would you want to do that? The click/tactile leaves on Matias switches are great. The piece of complicated Alps switches which is unquestionably better than Matias switches is the switchplate, which is much expensive to produce but much more reliable electrically.
[Note, you can swap Matias click/tactile leaves into old Alps switches if you want.]
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 01 February 2016, 19:32:03
One interesting note (which i would show if I actually had a macro lens :rolleyes:) is that you cannot put a leaf from a complicated switch into a matias housing as the legs are ever so slightly longer on a complicated leaf.Why would you want to do that? The click/tactile leaves on Matias switches are great.
There was no desire on my part other than at the time having a safe place to have the complicated alp leaf. I just thought it was an interesting difference that I wasn't suspecting.
The piece of complicated Alps switches which is unquestionably better than Matias switches is the switch plate, which is much expensive to produce but much more reliable electrically.
[Note, you can swap Matias click/tactile leaves into old Alps switches if you want.]
Scroll up a few more to my post before that one ;)
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 02 February 2016, 12:51:58
Post by: E3E on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:14:18
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.
Yeah, pretty much confirmed that blue Alps are the work of voodoo priests working at Alps in the mid 80s.
Just don't make em like that anymore!
-
On that note, see if orange or any other Alps-made sliders retain the feel of blue Alps if swapped in. If so, then it's likely just the plastic being different between Matias and Alps, with Alps likely just being higher quality.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:40:25
First-generation Alps switches like Blues and Oranges appear to use a different plastic from all others afterwards. Originally they came lubed but of course that's quite expensive so it appears they moved to a different, low-friction plastic (POM?) for the second generation. As such, it would make sense that clicky Oranges feel much like Blues (except a little lighter) :) .I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.
Yeah, pretty much confirmed that blue Alps are the work of voodoo priests working at Alps in the mid 80s.
Just don't make em like that anymore!
-
On that note, see if orange or any other Alps-made sliders retain the feel of blue Alps if swapped in. If so, then it's likely just the plastic being different between Matias and Alps, with Alps likely just being higher quality.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:49:08
Post by: chyros on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:53:48
All the Alps sliders seem like POM to me, though I’m not an expert on plastics. I don’t think there’s any substantial difference in the material or slider quality between blue/salmon/white/orange/brown/green/yellow/etc. sliders. There are subtly different slider shapes between different switch types though.That could be the case too, in that case they simply didn't bother lubing anymore at some point xD . Wish I had a TGA/DSC xD .
Post by: E3E on Tue, 02 February 2016, 13:56:41
All the Alps sliders seem like POM to me, though I’m not an expert on plastics. I don’t think there’s any substantial difference in the material or slider quality between blue/salmon/white/orange/brown/green/yellow/etc. sliders. There are subtly different slider shapes between different switch types though.That could be the case too, in that case they simply didn't bother lubing anymore at some point xD . Wish I had a TGA/DSC xD .
Yeah, that dry film lube surely is interesting! My measurements for orange Alps were pretty much around 60g of force for actuation, where blues needed 65g. I've always thought of oranges as blues without the click, which makes them a bit more boring in my eyes. Click-modded ones would be fun for sure. :3
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:33:22
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.Do they use some watermelon and kfc to it? :p
Post by: Eugene45 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 02:37:47
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 February 2016, 07:17:24
Do we use dry lube ? Or have someone a special mix ?
I would like to hear the answer to this, also. I think that I may have to crack open and click mod my baggie of oranges for my next Alps project.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 03 February 2016, 09:51:13
Well I can tell you first hand that the standard Krytox wet lube we're all used to for MX switches, does not feel very nice on click-modded oranges. It just makes it feel muffled. So it's gonna have to be some kind of dry lube, I just don't know enough about that stuff to weigh in.Do we use dry lube ? Or have someone a special mix ?
I would like to hear the answer to this, also. I think that I may have to crack open and click mod my baggie of oranges for my next Alps project.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 03 February 2016, 09:59:46
I'm thoroughly convinced that Blues use some kind of black magic. Swapping the blue slider into a Matias Click feels the same as the original slider, but swapping the Matias into Blue housing does not feel the same. Yet the sliders look identical.
Yeah, pretty much confirmed that blue Alps are the work of voodoo priests working at Alps in the mid 80s.
Just don't make em like that anymore!
Definitely magic. And my fingers are happy for said voodoo. I lub SKCM Blues :-X
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:52:34
Do we use dry lube ? Or have someone a special mix ?
Molybdenum disulfide powder is pretty good. I think a dry-film lube would work well too.
I agree with the notion that Alps switches do not need lubing unless they are scratchy to begin with. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.
That ol' Molly "B" Denim, though. :thumb:
Post by: frogthejam19 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 12:54:09
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:02:47
seems like everyone is now hoarding their blue alps boards.
People have always hoarded them, but now that they are ultra-hyped you have people buying them at ridiculous prices.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:09:09
seems like everyone is now hoarding their blue alps boards.
People have always hoarded them, but now that they are ultra-hyped you have people buying them at ridiculous prices.
Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:05:11
Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.
I spent too much on mine at $120, but mine also came with a whole computer! I ended up selling the computer for about $60 though. :)
Post by: frogthejam19 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:02:34
Sad thing is that they aren't even worth the premium they're sold for.
I spent too much on mine at $120, but mine also came with a whole computer! I ended up selling the computer for about $60 though. :)
are you the person who bought the leading edge computer ?
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:30:39
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:34:48
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.
I started hunting Alps because I was curious and there wasn't much popularity with them. It felt like I was digging through new territory. Plus I wanted to get into vintage boards and $2-30 a board was a great price point for me. I fell in love with how they feel too.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:35:50
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.
Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.
1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:52:11
Curious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.
Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.
1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
Mmm interesting.. should try it once. But my wallet forbids me for now... this hobby is expensive!
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:54:56
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 03 February 2016, 15:55:42
I like Alps because I think overall they all feel nicer than most other mechanical switches. The price point is a definite plus as you can get the more common Alps boards like an AEK II for around $30. Alps also seem to be smoother overall, even the Blue SKCM I'm typing on now seem much better than any of Cherry's clicky switches. Plus I think I kind of like Alps being a little less common than Cherry, as the selection is better for those of us who are always looking for Alps.
Smoother even than topre?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:00:45
should try it once. But my wallet forbids me
If you are comfortable with a soldering iron and transplanting a set of switches from one keyboard to another, the easiest and cheapest way to get a really good, straight-ANSI keyboard is to buy a Dell AT101(W) (they even come in black if that turns you on) and an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK2 is even cheaper and more common) and transplant the switches from the Apple into the Dell. The Apple caps are also far superior but they don't have all the correct pieces to make a complete set.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 February 2016, 16:18:04
1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
1: I agree. Even in similarly weighted switches between the two switch families, the feel is always quite distinct. The reduced travel is another huge factor here, even if it's only a .5 mm difference. It's that extra bit of travel that the stem well in a Cherry MX switch provides versus what we have with Alps. I think this is what makes Alps SKCL Greens so unique when tried side by side with incredibly smooth vintage MX blacks. SKCL browns feel more like blacks, but that lack of that extra bit of travel still makes them hard to really compare.
2: I've heard mixed opinions here. Some say that MX are far more forgiving to off-center presses while Alps bind like crazy. I'm unsure. I've had some boards that have had switches that wouldn't play nice with off-center presses, and others like my Hammer that are just fine regardless of where they are pressed. If I had to give my opinion though, I agree with you. They aren't that sensitive to binding, and I also feel that they are not as wobbly as MX in terms of stem wobble.
Ironic, because my Hammer Alps build uses an MXAlps plate and the switches are incredibly solid, but in some native Alps boards, ie with straight up Alps plates, I've had switches "rock". With how they're mounted, they can sometimes have the tendency to rock back, but this isn't much of an issue.
3: So true. Alps are super smooth switches and their hefty design with that monster of a slider and the dry film lube makes them really robust and solid switches compared to the dainty Cherry MX.
4: I need to try these. This is the key to more Alps love though. If only Matias could get a foothold, but it'd take a revolution in the keyboard scene and consumer market for that to happen.
5: Yep, and I don't think the hype trains we're seeing are going to persist. That is, I think prices will equalize again in time. The fact Alps is more obscure than Cherry and is cheaper was a huge incentive to me.
6: Totally this. I love discovering new things about the Alps world every day! :D
Post by: chyros on Wed, 03 February 2016, 17:55:57
The sound, you're forgetting the sound! :DCurious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.
Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.
1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:39:08
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.
Post by: sean on Wed, 03 February 2016, 18:41:29
The sound, you're forgetting the sound! :DCurious.. what's to love about alps? What sets it apart from other switches? Only alps I've ever felt was an apple keyboard like 15 years ago, so can't really remember it. Was the quietest keyboard I've ever typed on back in the day.
Here are some of the things that got me into Alps, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.
1. The higher actuation point gives them a feel that's completely distinct from Cherry, although I suppose you either like this or dislike it.
2. They seem to be a more "forgiving" switch than Cherry, in that they tend not to bind if you strike them off-center.
3. When found clean and in good shape, vintage Alps are incredibly smooth.
4. Matias' modern Alps clones are widely available, relatively cheap, and although different from old complicated Alps, very good switches in their own right.
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).
6. It's something new and different, which is alluring for a lot of folks.
Or for me, the lack of sound while still maintaining a nice crisp tactile feel (matias quiet click)
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 03 February 2016, 19:05:52
If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.
However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.
Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 03 February 2016, 20:11:43
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.I love this description, and the historical background you provided. I never paid attention to the force curve that closely, but Alps really do have a totally different feel after the click. Thanks for sharing this.
If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.
However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.
Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
Post by: flabbergast on Thu, 04 February 2016, 02:04:45
Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).
Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 06:21:48
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)This guys know what his talking about :thumb:
Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).
Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch :thumb:
If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.
However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.
Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:01:01
should try it once. But my wallet forbids me
If you are comfortable with a soldering iron and transplanting a set of switches from one keyboard to another, the easiest and cheapest way to get a really good, straight-ANSI keyboard is to buy a Dell AT101(W) (they even come in black if that turns you on) and an Apple Extended Keyboard (AEK2 is even cheaper and more common) and transplant the switches from the Apple into the Dell. The Apple caps are also far superior but they don't have all the correct pieces to make a complete set.
AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB? I guess I'll try to buy an AEK/2 first to see whether I like it. I already have the kb from the original macintosh (well, the 512K version; have the mac itself as well). So I guess I will end up with a small collection of them in the end...
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:04:00
5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.
Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:05:54
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.
If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.
However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.
Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
Sounds a bit like how Topre works? Up until the actuation point, relatively large amount of force is required. But after the rubber collapses, you almost instantly bottom out?
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:08:27
Nice explanation! I was wondering about this. I've recently tried all three types of Matias switches and I find all three much better than the respective categories of Cherry MX. (The linear Cherries are possible to get to an acceptable state by tuning the springs and lubing, but Matias linears are already smooth from the factory.)
Now I'm trying the some ALPS and they are indeed very nice and smooth (so far have tried white clicky, and while stiffer than matias clicks, the sound and feel is indeed superior).
Comparison to Topre? Topre only exists in the "quiet click = tactile" category, and I do like them better than the respective switches in the matias world (I've yet to try a complicated tactile ALPS).
Damn it really got me curious... back in the day (15-20 years ago), I had a Mac Performa with a AEK/AEK2 and a BS. And I can remember that the AEK was SO SICK. It was quiet, comfortable, precise. It felt like they perfected typing. Whereas my BS keyboard (I think it was a Tulip or C64 board, not sure) was.. well.. the sound was nice, but nowhere near the feel of the AEK in my opinion.
But then I did the Mac away with the KB not knowing what I had in my hands :(
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:15:29
Thats right bro! a really good switches or boardThe main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.
If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.
However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.
Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
Sounds a bit like how Topre works? Up until the actuation point, relatively large amount of force is required. But after the rubber collapses, you almost instantly bottom out?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:29:47
AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).
This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 07:31:34
AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).
This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw
Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:16:46
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)
This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter.
Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps.
The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.
I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch :thumb:
Brown tactile Alps has more of a rounded tactility, but you're right. Despite the roundedness, it still feels like it's plastic. I like to say that if Topre made switches instead of cup rubber, brown tac Alps would be the closest approximation.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:24:56
This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter.
The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.
I was speaking from my own experience. I have had approximately 4 of each and, of those, serial numbers <500K were all orange and >500K were all salmon. As with Model M components such as heavy back plates, it seems that different plants switched from older to newer components at significantly different times, probably depending on what stock they and their upstream suppliers had on hand.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:27:32
AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).
This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw
Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.
The ADB NeXT keyboards are rubber dome, non-ADB are Alps SKCM Black.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:27:51
Listen to this guy he is an expert at alps! :thumb:I have tried blue alps and orange alps and I think the closest one with topre is the orange alps but its a little bit different the bump of topre feels like a rounded bump as opposed to the orange alps which feels like a plastic hitting. I personally like topre better but Orange alps is really a good switch :thumb:
Brown tactile Alps has more of a rounded tactility, but you're right. Despite the roundedness, it still feels like it's plastic. I like to say that if Topre made switches instead of cup rubber, brown tac Alps would be the closest approximation.
thats why people loves topre the feel is unique to itself and no other board come close with the feels of topre. don't hear the crazy modders that says ergo clear or anything that they mod feels like topre
Its crazy that you think tomato is the same as steak :p. but its a matter of taste you need to try both to know the feels and choose what you like!
Post by: chyros on Thu, 04 February 2016, 09:12:53
Come to the UK. I've been charged as much as the full value of the board PLUS the entire cost of the shipping as tax on top of what I've already paid before :p . You can even be charged tax on duties, and duties on tax on top of that!5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.
Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
Post by: blk on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:43:51
Show me your love for Alps keyboards!
Which Alps keyboards have you loved over the years?
Which ones do you use on a regular basis?
Which ones do you recommend for the community?
I can only wish to own as many Alps keyboards as this guy...
Pictures incoming later today. I have recently purchased and disembodied an Apple Extended Keyboard II, with plans to eventually cut it down to 60%, wire it to a teensy and use it as a portable keyboard. Sadly, even with the guides out there, I'm having difficulty getting it to work. I'm thinking of putting it in a wooden case to lower weight and increase style. Typing is very enjoyable after clickifying them and slightly modifying their actuation force.
I also have a Dell AT101W that I've clickified and lubed. I use it in the lab at school. Surprisingly, no one cares about the noise it makes. Possibly because we work around whirring instruments all day.
Unfortunately, I think I've bought a bunk AT101W because the keys bind frequently, even with lubing. Pressing the keys off center causes some nasty binding.
Still, the feel of the board is better than any Cherry offerings that I've tried. My AT101W gives a pleasing typing experience, with medium-loud click-clacks and sharp tactility. I just need to type accurately!
My only complaint is that is comes with ABS caps, and I would greatly prefer PBT as seen in my AEKII. I have heard people say that ABS is best for ALPS, but I just don't agree. Gotta have PBT for thocks and deep vibrations.
IBM BS is still the best in my opinion, but ALPS are leaps and bounds better than Cherry. Maybe Matias will reclaim the ALPS throne?
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:50:22
Come to the UK. I've been charged as much as the full value of the board PLUS the entire cost of the shipping as tax on top of what I've already paid before :p . You can even be charged tax on duties, and duties on tax on top of that!5. Vintage Alps boards are still pretty affordable and easy to find (as opposed to Cherry).Old MX keyboards are also pretty affordable. At any given time there are a bunch on ebay for ~$20–30.
Problem for me is, I live in the EU (Netherlands), so I have to pay a lot more to get it into my country (shipping, after-tax, and sometimes import tax). My ~300 USD 87UB has an extra tax of around 60 USD once it passes the border. That's 20% "extra"!
I'm not even mad, that's amazing! Man, that sucks..
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:46:07
(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)
I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?
album:
http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7
dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)
dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:46:25
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)
This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter. Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps. The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.What were the two serial numbers you got? You’re probably right that there was a bit of overlap in production, but fohat is also 100% right that low-serial AEKs are all orange Alps, while the highest serial AEKs are all salmon Alps (those with lowest serials have orange Alps with a tall gray switchplate and no logo; later ones have orange Alps with the tall white switchplates, some with logos; the latest ones have salmon Alps). I’ve seen pictures of pulled caps on at least 30 of these, and the general pattern is clear.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:51:11
The ADB NeXT keyboards are rubber dome, non-ADB are Alps SKCM Black.This is incorrect. There are both ADB and non-ADB NeXT boards with Alps switches, and I’m pretty sure there are also both ADB and non-ADB NeXT boards with rubber domes.
Post by: Touch_It on Thu, 04 February 2016, 16:52:57
AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).
This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw
Thanks! I'm wondering what kind of switch NEXT-keyboards use. Since Jobs moved from Apple to NEXT and took most of the top engineers with him, NEXT-boards may be Alps as well.
AEK2 / AEK is ADB-bus right? Are there converts from ADB to USB?
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange) is a different and significantly better (in my opinion, others disagree) keyboard than AEK2 (1989 copyright might still have salmon, 1990 copyright probably has dampened cream, and 1995 copyright probably has dampened white).
This guy must have bought a truckload of these, he has been selling them on ebay for years:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-/321997360191?hash=item4af889cc3f:m:m56yBREdTTlOZpBnHKSRSvw
I asked for one of these for christmas (and got it). I love mine as it is simply plug and play. Great if you are lazy lol. He does seem to have a trillion of them. At a good price I think as well.
Post by: axtran on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:00:13
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:12:21
I'm almost scared of appreciating ALPS too hard since lately it's been driving prices to astronomical rates. There's no way SKCM Blue ALPS are driving the ridiculous prices as they are on eBay without the hype machine ruining things. They're not as rare as people think!
Super true. They're just the most desireable. It's kind of how like the general vibe of everyone who gets into Cherry MX (ie steps into the mechanical keyboard market for the first time) falls in love with Cherry MX blue.
I started with linears and hated clickies in the MX world myself, but you know.
Just like so many people seem all about blues, well... The newbies to the Alps world are all about blues too. :P With good reason, because they are awesome, but it feels like the same kind of drive, that hype train.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:12:40
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubsthats a beauty yo!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)
I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?
album:
http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7
dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)
dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:23:35
Apple Extended Keyboard with orange or salmon Alps (generally, serial number lower than 500K is probably orange)This is not true. Salmon and Orange Alps production ran concurrently and serial number range does not matter. Speaking as someone who has owned an AEK with orange Alps and seen one with a LOWER serial number containing salmon Alps. The only way you'll ever be sure if you're getting orange or salmon is to have the seller pop a cap.What were the two serial numbers you got? You’re probably right that there was a bit of overlap in production, but fohat is also 100% right that low-serial AEKs are all orange Alps, while the highest serial AEKs are all salmon Alps (those with lowest serials have orange Alps with a tall gray switchplate and no logo; later ones have orange Alps with the tall white switchplates, some with logos; the latest ones have salmon Alps). I’ve seen pictures of pulled caps on at least 30 of these, and the general pattern is clear.
Time for me to eat my humble pie.
I apologize if I came off as brash, fohat! I glanced the serial number for a salmon Alps AEK I was working on for a customer of mine, and I thought it was in the range of "75000' which was lower than my orange Alps AEK which had one that was high in the five digit range. Turns out the salmon Alps AEK was around 750000, not 75000.
I forget what my orange AEK was, since I tossed the parts after desoldering the switches for a scammer who nearly got them from me (offered me a "great" deal on SKCM blues, but right when I was about to send these switches as a token of my gratitude, I realized he was pulling one on me).
I wish I had kept that case, but the orange Alps have ALPS-branded top housings, so they are a bit later down the line. What was the highest serial range you saw the grey-contact plate Alps in, jacob?
So I'll admit, I might be entirely wrong here. :-X
Post by: iLLucionist on Thu, 04 February 2016, 17:24:24
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubsthats a beauty yo!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)
I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?
album:
http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7
dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)
dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
Azerty is too much for me. Nice board!
Post by: Karura on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:44:41
I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.
Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
Post by: chyros on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:51:50
How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?There are loads of tactile Alps, with considerably different characteristics. The earliest types (salmon, orange) are generally considered the best. As always with Alps; be mindful of the condition they're in!
I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.
Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Post by: sean on Thu, 04 February 2016, 20:57:56
It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.How limited are we on ALPS tactile switch options? I only know of Matias Quiet Click. Does anything else come close?There are loads of tactile Alps, with considerably different characteristics. The earliest types (salmon, orange) are generally considered the best. As always with Alps; be mindful of the condition they're in!
I quite like Complicated Blues and Greens, but never knew of a Tactile equivalent.
Also, just ordered a V60 ALPS, so quite excited. :)
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:25:38
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.Both Matias clicky switches and Matias tactile “quiet click” switches feel very similar to white Alps, in my opinion. They don’t feel remotely like any Cherry switch.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:41:47
If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.
I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.
I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 04 February 2016, 21:45:59
So today I received this NIB beauty with azerty dyesubsShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/DiiagWX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rqpQ8WZ.jpg)
I have a hasu pcb lined up but I need to figure plate and stabilizers to make it work.
Maybe alps expert can help me out?
album:
http://imgur.com/a/sTFQ7
dt picture showing how the stabs are mounted to the board.Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/0/08/Jvp6311_front.jpg)
dt page about this keyboard serie : https://deskthority.net/wiki/Acer_6310_series
The bad news is that the Acer 63xx and 65xx boards use a nonconventional stabilizer. In most ALPS boards, the wire is fixed on the plate, and moves back and forth in a slide inside the keycap. The Acers, have a fixed point in the cap, and the sliding element is that raised lug on the board.
The mediocre news: you could probably fake it by attacing a little piece of bent metal or plastic at the right locations of the plate to capture the sliding stabilizer.
The good news: It's not the stupidest stabilizer design in the world, in that it's pretty easy to get assembled correctly. It's actually somewhat reminiscent of the way old Model Ms worked.
Post by: sean on Thu, 04 February 2016, 22:43:13
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.
If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.
I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.
I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.
I click modded and linear modded some of my cream switches. They definitely feel completely different but I wouldn't be able to give a good opinion on them unless I could slap them on a keyboard and try them out. My 40%/45% keyboard will probably use modded cream switches in some capacity (which probably means click modding). Honestly though the keyboard I got was in such bad condition a lot of the switches magically click modded themselves. :rolleyes:
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:04:47
The main thing is that Cherry MX was designed to be a linear switch, and the other variants are done via a hacky and not-very-effective method of adding a little bump to the slider which briefly adds some extra plastic-on-plastic resistance.I love this description, and the historical background you provided. I never paid attention to the force curve that closely, but Alps really do have a totally different feel after the click. Thanks for sharing this.
If you like linear switches, then early (i.e. from the 1980s) MX black switches are an okay but not spectacular switch. If you add lubricant and swap the springs for lighter ones, and put them into a very sturdy case, they can be quite nice, even. As linear switches they don’t live up to e.g. Honeywell hall effect switches or various other fancy switches from the 1960s–1970s, but they’re widely available and don’t need any electrical engineering work to use with modern machines.
However, if you want a switch with some tactile response, then no Cherry MX switch is particularly effective. What you get instead is a linear switch with a little “speed bump” about halfway down the keypress, but which goes back to being linear afterward. Even in the two-piece slider design of MX blue, the overall feel (try with earplugs sometime) is a linear switch with a little speedbump halfway down.
Alps switches by contrast have a metal leaf spring providing resistance, which suddenly gives way once the slider passes a particular point, so you get a force curve which grows somewhat smoothly and then drops suddenly after the tactile point. There’s much more snap to it, sort of like plucking a string or something.
Great description! There is a wonderful rebound with Alps switches...vaguely similar to Topre but distinct still.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:06:01
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps?One variant I really like is to take the housing/slider/dampers/spring from cream Alps with the click leaf from white Alps, snip all of the inactive coils off one end of the spring to make it shorter, reducing overall switch stiffness, and then bend the click leaf outward a bit to be a bit clickier. Kind of tedious to make a bunch of them though (in particular getting the stronger click semi-consistent isn’t trivial), and you need some really hard snippers to cut through spring wire without being damaged. The resulting switch is very snappy and loud at the click point but makes no sound at the bottom or top of the stroke.
The tactile leaf can then be swapped into the white Alps switch, and you basically get salmon switches.
The click-modded cream switches I made that way are very different from blue Alps though. I think you’ll have a tough time making any modded short-switchplate complicated Alps switch sound or feel like a blue switch. Not sure it’s that useful a goal; with the amount of fiddly work you’ll have to do to make a bunch of consistently modded switches of any type, you should just buy the blue switches directly if those are what you want.
I do wish there were a few options for after-market Alps/Alps clone/Omron/SMK/TEC/Matias springs (these are all close enough in diameter to have mostly interchangeable springs). It would be great to have a choice of 2 or 3 lengths, each with 2–3 different stiffnesses. Swapping the springs makes some of these switches much nicer IMO.
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 00:38:26
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.
If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.
I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.
I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.
This is an excellent experiment. As you say, the AEK IIs are in great supply and affordably priced. I’ve got a couple AEKs and AEK IIs but I’ve got them all disassembled for retrobriting right now. Should have them back together in a week, and I’m very interested to if you’ve discovered a poor man’s Porsche.
Post by: flabbergast on Fri, 05 February 2016, 01:40:07
EDIT: Forgot to advertise that the same converter can be used as a PS/2, NeXT, ... (and a bunch of other protocols - pretty much everything that uses mini-DIN connector) just by flashing a different firmware. EDIT2: changing the type also involves re-soldering SMT jumpers. Ah well.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 05 February 2016, 02:20:00
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.Both Matias clicky switches and Matias tactile “quiet click” switches feel very similar to white Alps, in my opinion. They don’t feel remotely like any Cherry switch.
Post by: flabbergast on Fri, 05 February 2016, 02:30:10
I like both Matias and ALPS - but I have to side with chyros here: the white clicky ALPS sound much more "mature" than matias clicks. (Though the quality of the feel&sound of both is way removed from anything Cherry switches can produce.)Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.Both Matias clicky switches and Matias tactile “quiet click” switches feel very similar to white Alps, in my opinion. They don’t feel remotely like any Cherry switch.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:50:03
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.Find some NIB white Alps keyboard, put on some earplugs, and try it back to back with a Matias clicky keyboard. Very similar IMO, though the Matias switch has quite a bit more front-to-back wobble. (Not identical by any means, but pretty close. In general the Matias boards are “much more tactile” than white Alps boards because they’re new instead of 25 years old.) As you say, the sound is somewhat different, though that’s also greatly affected by context. Try soldering some clicky Matias switches next to some white Alps switches into the same board if you want a fair sound comparison.
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:25:08
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.Find some NIB white Alps keyboard, put on some earplugs, and try it back to back with a Matias clicky keyboard. Very similar IMO, though the Matias switch has quite a bit more front-to-back wobble. (Not identical by any means, but pretty close. In general the Matias boards are “much more tactile” than white Alps boards because they’re new instead of 25 years old.) As you say, the sound is somewhat different, though that’s also greatly affected by context. Try soldering some clicky Matias switches next to some white Alps switches into the same board if you want a fair sound comparison.
How bad IS the wobble actually with matias? I've heard mixes stories.
Post by: umeboshi on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:32:45
Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.
If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.
I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.
I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.
I did the same thing (click-mod + remove bumpers) on an AEK-II, and also click modded some oranges into a minitouch. They are very similar, but the oranges seem to be just a tad heavier. Since I had them out, I took a switch apart on each to compare.
Didn't know that the legs on the click leaves were different:
[attach=1]
I guess this explains why the oranges were a tad heavier... :))
[attach=2]
I've never tried blues so I can't compare against those though. Was hoping for a poor man's version of them with these mods though... :p
Post by: njbair on Fri, 05 February 2016, 06:53:58
Those are some cool comparison shots. Interesting what you said about oranges being heavier. I thought the creams were ever so slightly heavier.Has anyone ever tried click modding dampened cream Alps? There are so many of these switches lying around from old AEKII boards that have been harvested for caps. I decided to give it a try on my lunch break today. I desoldered a handful, opened them up and bent back the tabs. This completely changed the feel! I couldn't believe how similar they felt to the click modded oranges I made the other day. I tried removing the rubber bumpers on a couple of the click modded ones but I couldn't tell a difference with or without the bumpers.
If anyone else has some orange and/or cream Alps lying around, I would love some other opinions on the click mod.
I can only tell so much from a loose switch versus mounting in a board. So once I get more free time (read: when AW is done shipping) I'll probably load up one of my Alps Party plates with switches and caps and actually do some typing tests, comparing to my white Alps boards.
I think what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not click modded tactile Alps are an adequate substitute for the increasingly harder to find blue Alps.
I did the same thing (click-mod + remove bumpers) on an AEK-II, and also click modded some oranges into a minitouch. They are very similar, but the oranges seem to be just a tad heavier. Since I had them out, I took a switch apart on each to compare.
Didn't know that the legs on the click leaves were different:
(Attachment Link)
I guess this explains why the oranges were a tad heavier... :))
(Attachment Link)
I've never tried blues so I can't compare against those though. Was hoping for a poor man's version of them with these mods though...
Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but those longer legs on the click leaf look like they wouldn't really matter much since the extra length is after the bump. That should all just be clearance, I would think.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 February 2016, 07:44:51
I really need a tactile switch, but I have no need or desire for noise. In fact I consider the sound to be a disadvantage, but the feel is essential. A lighter force would be great but I will not be cutting any springs - too much too precise work to get real consistency. I have loads of spare switches, especially black, which I would rob for springs if I thought that they were significantly lighter, but I don't think they are.
Lubing seems to be the answer, and dry is clearly the way to go.
The other thing that I like about Alps is the high actuation point, but I don't think that will change in any case, will it?
While I am generally indifferent to the stock dampened cream style, I do appreciate that they seem to have the upstroke dampened, which is a good thing, but otherwise I plan to not get involved with them at this point.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:51:48
For me, the bottom-line question is whether the "blue mystique" can be reproduced by modding more common switches. Specifically, I have a bag full of nice oranges that I am considering taking apart and rebuilding. I have never messed with Alps switches internally before.Taking apart Alps switches is easy, for sure you should give it a go :) .
I really need a tactile switch, but I have no need or desire for noise. In fact I consider the sound to be a disadvantage, but the feel is essential. A lighter force would be great but I will not be cutting any springs - too much too precise work to get real consistency. I have loads of spare switches, especially black, which I would rob for springs if I thought that they were significantly lighter, but I don't think they are.
Lubing seems to be the answer, and dry is clearly the way to go.
The other thing that I like about Alps is the high actuation point, but I don't think that will change in any case, will it?
While I am generally indifferent to the stock dampened cream style, I do appreciate that they seem to have the upstroke dampened, which is a good thing, but otherwise I plan to not get involved with them at this point.
The actuation point shouldn't change because that's a factor of the contact leaf, so if you don't change that, there's no reason it would be different.
Oranges themselves are lighter than other Alps switches (which tend to be ~70 gf). Whether this is due to a looser spring or a looser tactile leaf, I don't know.
I wouldn't advise substituting in springs from later Alps switches. Early Alps have gold-coloured springs with fewer windings than the later ones like blacks. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they make a difference in keyfeel.
I've looked for dry lubricants for Alps switches but frankly I'm stumped, I have no idea at all what they could've used, and dry lubricants are expensive.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:55:08
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.
Yeah Matias are definitely Alps-mount switches but not exactly Alps SKCM/SKCL. Still, I don't think thats a detractor. Just semantics.
Really? I've found Matiases to be much more tactile and quite clunky, and they have a second tactile point near the bottom where the slider clears the contact figure. They also don't sound anything like Alps, much hollower, and the clicker isn't as loud or as bassy Oo. That's just my opinion though.
I agree with you mr Chyros
Post by: njbair on Fri, 05 February 2016, 09:30:02
It seems like the click-modded dampened cream Alps are much closer to blues than the click-modded oranges. Orange Alps have a stiffer bump, which makes them feel more like whites when click-modded. It doesn't feel like oranges have a heavier spring (at least not by much), but the stiffer bump makes them feel heavier. Not bad, but different.
Meanwhile, I had an incredibly difficult time telling apart the blues and creams. The blues have an ever so slightly deeper click sound, and when I plug my ears I perceive that blues are slightly heavier than creams. But other than that I can't tell them apart.
Next, I broke out a stack of nickels for a good old-fashioned actuation force test. I discovered that both the cream and blue switches require about 60g actuation force. Oranges were about 70g. Interestingly, non-click-modded cream Alps were also about 70g, so it's true that the click mod substantially affects the feel. White Alps are about 60g, but they feel much stiffer than blues or click-modded creams. I believe this is due to the combination of a lighter spring and a more pronounced bump on the leaf.
Summary: Click-modded oranges are closer to white Alps, and click-modded creams are closer to blue Alps.
I'm glad I did this because it's helped me make a decision on which switches to use for my next builds. I was going to click mod my remaining oranges and use those on my ANSI 60% build, but I already have some white Alps boards and I believe a board full of click-modded oranges would be too similar. Besides, I really like tactile oranges as-is, and if it ain't broke...
Instead, I'm going to click mod some cream Alps and use those for my next 60% build. I'm saving my bag of blues for my Monarch build, but after this experiment I truly believe that click-modded creams are a solid substitute for hard-to-find blues. The best part is, this simple mod takes an otherwise forgotten switch (dampened cream Alps) and turns it into something very desirable.
Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 09:31:23
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:03:35
I did some blind testing this morning with blue Alps, click-modded orange, and click-modded dampened cream. I wanted to see if I could tell the difference by sound and feel alone.why does my click modded orange have a soft bump instead the overpowered bump in blue alps?
It seems like the click-modded dampened cream Alps are much closer to blues than the click-modded oranges. Orange Alps have a stiffer bump, which makes them feel more like whites when click-modded. It doesn't feel like oranges have a heavier spring (at least not by much), but the stiffer bump makes them feel heavier. Not bad, but different.
Meanwhile, I had an incredibly difficult time telling apart the blues and creams. The blues have an ever so slightly deeper click sound, and when I plug my ears I perceive that blues are slightly heavier than creams. But other than that I can't tell them apart.
Next, I broke out a stack of nickels for a good old-fashioned actuation force test. I discovered that both the cream and blue switches require about 60g actuation force. Oranges were about 70g. Interestingly, non-click-modded cream Alps were also about 70g, so it's true that the click mod substantially affects the feel. White Alps are about 60g, but they feel much stiffer than blues or click-modded creams. I believe this is due to the combination of a lighter spring and a more pronounced bump on the leaf.
Summary: Click-modded oranges are closer to white Alps, and click-modded creams are closer to blue Alps.
I'm glad I did this because it's helped me make a decision on which switches to use for my next builds. I was going to click mod my remaining oranges and use those on my ANSI 60% build, but I already have some white Alps boards and I believe a board full of click-modded oranges would be too similar. Besides, I really like tactile oranges as-is, and if it ain't broke...
Instead, I'm going to click mod some cream Alps and use those for my next 60% build. I'm saving my bag of blues for my Monarch build, but after this experiment I truly believe that click-modded creams are a solid substitute for hard-to-find blues. The best part is, this simple mod takes an otherwise forgotten switch (dampened cream Alps) and turns it into something very desirable.
Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:09:44
Can I borrow a few of those switches to play with njbair? I'm really curious about the click-modding stuff. Just haven't had the time to test it out myself. And yeah, I think click-modded creams is fine. The naming has gotten crazy.
No problem. I'll send you my mini test platform I built for this from an old IIGS plate, along with one of each switch type:
1. Stock orange
2. Click-modded orange
3. Stock white
4. Stock cream
5. Click-modded cream
6. Stock blue
(http://i.imgur.com/gSZZ0SO.jpg)
I'll toss in in a bubble mailer and get it out to you today.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:10:19
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:31:31
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:14:22
I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500
That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:39:57
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.
Yeah Matias are definitely Alps-mount switches but not exactly Alps SKCM/SKCL. Still, I don't think thats a detractor. Just semantics.
I think that's a factor of Matias switches being clones of the simplified SKBM/SKBL series instead of the complicated. Since Matias used to get their switches from Forward, it would make sense for Matias to have copied the switches from Forward.
I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
So YOU'RE the one who outbid me on that! I would've bid more but shipping is RIDICULOUS on Goodwill's website.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:43:47
I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500Note that this is one with salmon switches and no (pretend) claim to being NIB. Still a nice keyboard though. :)
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 05 February 2016, 13:57:43
Matias switches aren't really Alps switches. They might look the same, and are advertised as pretty much the same, but in practice, they're not much further off Cherry MX than they are off Alps, really.It doesn't help that KBP advertises on the box that it has Alps switches.
Yeah Matias are definitely Alps-mount switches but not exactly Alps SKCM/SKCL. Still, I don't think thats a detractor. Just semantics.
I think that's a factor of Matias switches being clones of the simplified SKBM/SKBL series instead of the complicated. Since Matias used to get their switches from Forward, it would make sense for Matias to have copied the switches from Forward.I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
So YOU'RE the one who outbid me on that! I would've bid more but shipping is RIDICULOUS on Goodwill's website.
Shipping is a bit ridiculous. Still, I figured @ under 30 shipped, it was a good deal, even though its salmon vs orange. This was right at the top of my budget. I was assuming I would have got out bid at the last second. Had I known I probably wouldn't have bid on it. I never posted about it, in hopes that keeping it on the low down would keep the price low.
@jacobolus :D Yeah, just making light of the crazy $500 auction, and the recent price hike in ALPS in general. My collection is slowly growing. Still have never tried Blue orange or amber alps. I'm hoping salmon trumps dampened cream. I quite enjoy them.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 14:13:04
I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500Note that this is one with salmon switches and no (pretend) claim to being NIB. Still a nice keyboard though. :)
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Apple-M0115-ADB-Keyboard-with-Cord-27353042.html
Haha, a good price! I got my original orange Alps AEK for $16 before shipping, $30 shipped. There will always be some that fly under the radar, but with everyone's antennae up because of the Alps love in the community atm, it might not happen too often.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 14:20:03
Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.
Bleu Cheese Alps
Bleu Alps
Blueberry Cream Cheese Alps
Fat Lady Alps
Singing Cream Alps
Blues and Jazz Alps
Exonerated Creams
Transcendental Cream Alps
T-Pain Creams
Ice Cream Alps
THEY SOUND FANTASTIC.
You know, I have STILL never tried white Alps yet.
On my haven't tried list, I have only but the most common switches - dampened cream, SKCM black, SKCM white, and the odd NeXT SKCM cream (non-dampened).
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 14:46:32
Shipping is a bit ridiculous. Still, I figured @ under 30 shipped, it was a good deal, even though its salmon vs orange. This was right at the top of my budget. I was assuming I would have got out bid at the last second. Had I known I probably wouldn't have bid on it. I never posted about it, in hopes that keeping it on the low down would keep the price low.
@jacobolus :D Yeah, just making light of the crazy $500 auction, and the recent price hike in ALPS in general. My collection is slowly growing. Still have never tried Blue orange or amber alps. I'm hoping salmon trumps dampened cream. I quite enjoy them.
I'm glad to see that someone bought it who has never tried Salmons before, I prefer them to Cream Damped Alps myself. I'd also much rather someone in the keyboard community buy it instead of some Apple collector who will just let it sit on a shelf in the box.
You know, I have STILL never tried white Alps yet.
On my haven't tried list, I have only but the most common switches - dampened cream, SKCM black, SKCM white, and the odd NeXT SKCM cream (non-dampened).
How strange! I've tried most of the common switches such as Cream Damped, Black, and White. I still need to find some Greens, Yellows, Grays, etc. though. Hopefully when I buy another SHARP X68K it actually has Green Alps. :confused:
P.S. Does anyone know where I can find some Alps clones that have the LED cutout? I'd love to get some of the green Xiang Min switches but I don't know where one would find those. I need to replace some switches in my Focus but I need switches that support an LED.
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 05 February 2016, 15:24:48
I did some blind testing this morning with blue Alps, click-modded orange, and click-modded dampened cream. I wanted to see if I could tell the difference by sound and feel alone.
It seems like the click-modded dampened cream Alps are much closer to blues than the click-modded oranges. Orange Alps have a stiffer bump, which makes them feel more like whites when click-modded. It doesn't feel like oranges have a heavier spring (at least not by much), but the stiffer bump makes them feel heavier. Not bad, but different.
Meanwhile, I had an incredibly difficult time telling apart the blues and creams. The blues have an ever so slightly deeper click sound, and when I plug my ears I perceive that blues are slightly heavier than creams. But other than that I can't tell them apart.
Next, I broke out a stack of nickels for a good old-fashioned actuation force test. I discovered that both the cream and blue switches require about 60g actuation force. Oranges were about 70g. Interestingly, non-click-modded cream Alps were also about 70g, so it's true that the click mod substantially affects the feel. White Alps are about 60g, but they feel much stiffer than blues or click-modded creams. I believe this is due to the combination of a lighter spring and a more pronounced bump on the leaf.
Summary: Click-modded oranges are closer to white Alps, and click-modded creams are closer to blue Alps.
I'm glad I did this because it's helped me make a decision on which switches to use for my next builds. I was going to click mod my remaining oranges and use those on my ANSI 60% build, but I already have some white Alps boards and I believe a board full of click-modded oranges would be too similar. Besides, I really like tactile oranges as-is, and if it ain't broke...
Instead, I'm going to click mod some cream Alps and use those for my next 60% build. I'm saving my bag of blues for my Monarch build, but after this experiment I truly believe that click-modded creams are a solid substitute for hard-to-find blues. The best part is, this simple mod takes an otherwise forgotten switch (dampened cream Alps) and turns it into something very desirable.
Now I'm just trying to figure out what to call this cream alps click mod. I was thinking about Ghetto Blues, because they're so similar to blues. But they're not blue, so that's confusing. I really like the fact that this mod has the potential to save cream alps from obscurity, so I was thinking of calling them Rescue Alps, kind of like a rescue dog that you save from the pound. Then again, the last thing this hobby needs is more jargon, so maybe just Click-modded Creams.
[/
quote]
Thanks for sharing this--great comparison, and so good to elevate creams.
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:18:09
I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500
That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.
Wait what? So if I were out to buy an AEK I need at least 500$? I thought they were cheap, more like 50-80 USD? All hope is lost..
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:19:00
I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500
That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.
Wait what? So if I were out to buy an AEK I need at least 500$? I thought they were cheap, more like 50-80 USD? All hope is lost..
It's a joke lol. They're about $30 USD. Someone paid $500 in an earlier post in this thread.
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 05 February 2016, 18:20:36
I did the impossible. Bought a AEK for under $500
That looks like a very nice one. Usually they are seriously yellowed. With a high serial number it is very likely salmons.
The relieve is real. I cannot wait to get my hands on an AEK. It will be my first vintage board. And it will bring me great nostalgia feels.
Wait what? So if I were out to buy an AEK I need at least 500$? I thought they were cheap, more like 50-80 USD? All hope is lost..
It's a joke lol. They're about $30 USD. Someone paid $500 in an earlier post in this thread.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 05 February 2016, 19:17:37
They're about $30 USD.
That is a very good price and you would have to be patient.
Twice that would be more common.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 19:33:25
They're about $30 USD.
That is a very good price and you would have to be patient.
Twice that would be more common.
Especially now, but that is what I paid for mine.
Post by: ShawnMeg on Fri, 05 February 2016, 21:56:05
At the present time, the oranges are my second favorite switch after Model F buckling springs (or maybe a tie with the Model M buckling springs). I haven't had the opportunity to try out SKCM Blues and cannot comment on how the oranges compare to them.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 22:27:49
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 February 2016, 22:35:30
Just bought an AEK with Oranges for $30, and I have another one on offer that was accepted.
Dang Blaise. Do you mind my asking of where you got the boards?
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 February 2016, 23:59:31
Dang Blaise. Do you mind my asking of where you got the boards?
Ebay. I just make offers and sellers are usually willing to accept them.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 06 February 2016, 06:30:34
They're about $30 USD.
That is a very good price and you would have to be patient.
Twice that would be more common.
I'm used to Realforce/HHKB-prices with import customs / import tax prices on top of that. So 60$ still sounds like "free".
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:31:04
ALPS fans :D
IBM M 1390131 ALPS SKCM blue switches,Nov 86
Some high resolution pictures updated！！！
http://xiangce.baidu.com/picture/album/list/5a6c7908687be23f1d2ef80de074fe040d81c660?isscore=1#pic
I take back my doubts, xixihaha. Seems this is real. Amazing find!
Looks like another one turned up on Deskthority, https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-blue-alps-t12798.html
And holy **** those F row keycaps are tall:
(http://i.imgur.com/NcHcNII.jpg)
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 02:56:59
Its like cherry is a good beef with lots of exotic ingredients
And alps is like a good beef but with mediocre herbs
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 03:03:04
After I tried old cherry mx black with thick og caps its just feels that alps is cheap. well I've yet to try all the alps
Its like cherry is a good beef with lots of exotic ingredients; And alps is like a good beef but with mediocre herbs
If a rubber dome is like a bowl of sugar cereal in a bowl of non-dairy milk substitute...
Cherry MX is like cheap macaroni with american cheese and chunks of mystery-meat hot dogs tossed in. You can pick whichever color of food coloring you want to have mixed in with the cheese. It won’t give you instant diabetes but it’s hardly a healthy lifestyle.
Alps from the 80s–early 90s gives you the choice of well-made sandwich at the corner sandwich shop: pastrami on rye, BLT, Italian sub, maybe even a burger.
All those sexy switches and keycaps from the 60s–70s are the real gourmet stuff.
You want OG? These Alps switches and keycaps make Cherry MX black feel like a toy:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3801/9764673284_9d439906b9_h.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3768/9764607194_484cad3d5d_h.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3780/9764721863_4f7c4c3952_h.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5514/9764868922_61f171407c_h.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2807/9765734984_b51be45879_h.jpg)
For more see:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/alps-cb14182b-scb1a163-aka-super-alps-t6525.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/albums/72157635545864692/page2
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 03:31:03
I have to say that board is a beauty :thumb:After I tried old cherry mx black with thick og caps its just feels that alps is cheap. well I've yet to try all the alps
Its like cherry is a good beef with lots of exotic ingredients; And alps is like a good beef but with mediocre herbs
If a rubber dome is like a bowl of sugar cereal in a bowl of non-dairy milk substitute...
Cherry MX is like cheap macaroni with american cheese and chunks of mystery-meat hot dogs tossed in. You can pick whichever color of food coloring you want to have mixed in with the cheese. It won’t give you instant diabetes but it’s hardly a healthy lifestyle.
Alps from the 80s–early 90s gives you the choice of well-made sandwich at the corner sandwich shop: pastrami on rye, BLT, Italian sub, maybe even a burger.
All those sexy switches and keycaps from the 60s–70s are the real gourmet stuff.
You want OG? These Alps switches and keycaps make Cherry MX black feel like a toy:Show Image(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3801/9764673284_9d439906b9_h.jpg)Show Image(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3768/9764607194_484cad3d5d_h.jpg)Show Image(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3780/9764721863_4f7c4c3952_h.jpg)Show Image(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5514/9764868922_61f171407c_h.jpg)Show Image(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2807/9765734984_b51be45879_h.jpg)
For more see:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/alps-cb14182b-scb1a163-aka-super-alps-t6525.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/albums/72157635545864692/page2
I've heard about that board and haata said that its his favourite right?
The problem with the real gourmet stuff is just that they are hard to find, hard to maintain, and hard to use, and even hard to ship to another country which is sucks
Well I need to try find a good caps for alps and some custom that could use alps so I could call my final verdict of alps
Post by: mastermachetier on Sun, 07 February 2016, 03:33:06
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:42:51
You want OG? These Alps switches and keycaps make Cherry MX black feel like a toy:Show Image(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3801/9764673284_9d439906b9_h.jpg)
MMMMmmm those caps... nice.
Post by: Bucake on Sun, 07 February 2016, 05:28:15
- finding one
- paying for one
- restoring one
- getting one to work with modern hardware
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 05:29:35
problem with fancy oldskool boards like that is
- finding one
- paying for one
- restoring one
- getting one to work with modern hardware
But the dopamine / adrenaline rush when you get it to work... mmmm
Post by: ctm on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:08:25
I've only been fortunate enough to have an orange alps m0116 my favorite switch, but I hate the layout. I really want to get my hands on a m0115 but haven't been able to find one at a good price. Also wish I had access to other alps and mantis keys to try for comparison I don't want to buy them in bulk in case I don't like one but if any of you guys have a sampler pack or one of each you like to sell I'd pay for shipping that would be awesome. :) Also where the heck do you find blues for sale?I am also interested in a sampler pack :)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:26:25
I am also interested in a sampler pack
At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:30:18
I am also interested in a sampler pack
At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"
Too bad :-(
Post by: henz on Sun, 07 February 2016, 17:34:33
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:04:40
Too bad
Or, you could do like us old-timers: just buy a whole bunch of junk keyboards and keep using them until you figure out what you like.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:18:02
(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
Post by: ctm on Sun, 07 February 2016, 18:45:42
Actually I hesitate whether I want to jump into world of vintage Alps. (some of) They are hard to find and the condition varies. Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches. It will be very sad if I fall in love with some vintage Alps and can't find any replacement when my old switches fail. I am quite happy with Matias switch now. Maybe I should just stick with Matias switches.I am also interested in a sampler pack
At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"
Post by: mastermachetier on Sun, 07 February 2016, 19:00:21
Actually I hesitate whether I want to jump into world of vintage Alps. (some of) They are hard to find and the condition varies. Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches. It will be very sad if I fall in love with some vintage Alps and can't find any replacement when my old switches fail. I am quite happy with Matias switch now. Maybe I should just stick with Matias switches.I am also interested in a sampler pack
At one point I think that Orihalcon was planning to put together some samplers. There is a problem that they (with the exception of Matias) are old and out of production. A company like Cherry has real incentive to help you evaluate before you decide which one of their products to purchase. There is little incentive for anyone to buy, process, sell, and ship scavenged Reagan-era gear "just to be nice"
I was happy with my brown until I found my blue. Then I tried alps orange and,yes life changed now I spend all my time on craigslist searching for old keyboards :(. That being said never tried mantias switches so who knows I could like those better. Oh and I have Zealious and gateron reds from a group buy coming in... What am I doing with my life.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 19:15:43
Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches.Electrically, complicated Alps switches are very sturdy and reliable. The “switchplate” part where the electrical contacts are is well sealed and makes a very clean electrical signal, switching from on to off with almost no bouncing. The design is much more effective than Cherry MX switches, or simplified Alps switches or other clones (e.g. Matias switches).
Time alone isn’t going to do any damage to complicated Alps switches stored properly in a box or under a dust cover. The main threats are metal leaf springs bent out of shape (if the ones which push the electrical contacts together get bent out of shape, the switch can stop actuating reliably), and dust/dirt getting into the switch internals where it adds a “scratchy” feeling to the switch. Bending of the leaf springs only happens if the keyboards are stored with the keys held down for years at a time (not a danger if you store your keyboard properly), or if they are used for full time typing for decades. Even then, the switches are easy to disassemble and with some finesse it’s usually possible to bend the metal leaves back into shape.
Obviously if you dump your keyboard in a lake, drop it 10m onto concrete, bury it in the dirt, etc. you can wreck Alps switches pretty easily. Under regular use and storage, however, one that is in good condition today should still be in pretty good condition in another 10–20 years.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 07 February 2016, 20:41:48
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
I wonder what kind of printing those keys use. :cool:
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 07 February 2016, 20:59:48
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 07 February 2016, 21:34:23
Post by: mseaworthy on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:17:57
For me, the bottom-line question is whether the "blue mystique" can be reproduced by modding more common switches. Specifically, I have a bag full of nice oranges that I am considering taking apart and rebuilding. I have never messed with Alps switches internally before.
I really need a tactile switch, but I have no need or desire for noise. In fact I consider the sound to be a disadvantage, but the feel is essential. A lighter force would be great but I will not be cutting any springs - too much too precise work to get real consistency. I have loads of spare switches, especially black, which I would rob for springs if I thought that they were significantly lighter, but I don't think they are.
Lubing seems to be the answer, and dry is clearly the way to go.
The other thing that I like about Alps is the high actuation point, but I don't think that will change in any case, will it?
While I am generally indifferent to the stock dampened cream style, I do appreciate that they seem to have the upstroke dampened, which is a good thing, but otherwise I plan to not get involved with them at this point.
@ fohat I recall in one of your recent posts you said you really like the tactile feel of Alps but don’t need or want much sound (or perhaps as little of it as possible).
I thought of those comments today when I finished restoring an AEK II with dampened white switches. I have cream damped, salmon, and orange alps but never tried damped whites prior to this. While they were quiet, I wasn’t sure they were damped until I opened up a switch to confirm it.
But they are a wonderful feeling and sounding switch—perhaps you have already sampled them, but I’d describe them as maybe 35% of the noise of an orange or salmon switch but not as crisp feeling. I know that’s really imprecise and it’s all personal, but I was really surprised great accomplishment of precision and feel for the comparatively low level lack of clack (not that I mind the clack, but there are times when less clack is desirable). I have a Matais Laptop Pro, and the white damped Alps are more quiet and offer a more satisfying feel.
It’s an odd comparison, but they feel vaguely similar to silenced HHKB switches—sound similar too but the sound is more of a is higher pitched “thock.” I still prefer a salmon switch, but this is a great quiet-time switch.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:39:58
Post by: chyros on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:57:49
Mitsumi Hybrid today. :'(Oh ****, I didn't even know they could come with that :( . Good to know, should be wikified...
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 February 2016, 16:59:03
Received my AEK with Oranges and the Magnavox VideoWriter withBrown AlpsMitsumi Hybrid today. :'(
Were you hoping for brown linears or brown tactiles?
Brown SKCL, those slippery dogs!
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:20:47
Received my AEK with Oranges and the Magnavox VideoWriter withDamn bro this one need to be wikified!Brown AlpsMitsumi Hybrid today. :'(
Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki too
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:21:59
@ fohat I recall in one of your recent posts you said you really like the tactile feel of Alps but don’t need or want much sound [...] I thought of those comments today when I finished restoring an AEK II with dampened white switches. [...] But they are a wonderful feeling and sounding switch
Personally I don’t like the feel of dampened white switches. They feel lumpy and mushy, noticeably less pleasant than the cream switches (which are already not my favorite). YMMV though.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:22:32
Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki tooJust add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:24:42
can we rebuilt our GH wiki?
I think everyone here is gun shy that r00tw0rm will swoop in and erase it again.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 08 February 2016, 17:54:21
Exactly, it makes no sense to spend a lot of effort to rebuild something that already exists somewhere else :p . Better to work together to make something big and singular :) .Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki tooJust add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 08 February 2016, 18:31:31
Post by: njbair on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:02:34
Even though it is nice to have a wiki for GH, it is redundant to have multiple. I'd much prefer having only one wiki and contributing to it so that we don't have misinformation between wikis, etc. It just wouldn't make sense for someone to make a new wikipedia2 to compete with wikipedia, you know?(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160209/2f2611e181c113e9de1b932ea9128fc7.jpg)
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:06:43
Post by: axtran on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:21:32
Actually I hesitate whether I want to jump into world of vintage Alps. (some of) They are hard to find and the condition varies. Even in good condition, they are around 20 years old. Not sure how long they will last, but probably shorter than new switches. It will be very sad if I fall in love with some vintage Alps and can't find any replacement when my old switches fail. I am quite happy with Matias switch now. Maybe I should just stick with Matias switches.
I support this. Leave Vintage ALPS for the rest of us. ;)
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:26:21
Who said that the GH wiki has to be the same as the DT wiki?Exactly, it makes no sense to spend a lot of effort to rebuild something that already exists somewhere else :p . Better to work together to make something big and singular :) .Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki tooJust add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
We just need to find some sort of feature for the GH wiki to have that the DT wiki won't.
Last year there was a movement to have the wiki started back up but that died. I would totally be in for helping recreate our wiki if we had the carte blanche.
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:53:10
Yes a wiki about custom and tricks and all caps info!Who said that the GH wiki has to be the same as the DT wiki?Exactly, it makes no sense to spend a lot of effort to rebuild something that already exists somewhere else :p . Better to work together to make something big and singular :) .Btw can we rebuilt our GH wiki? I'm thinking on helping to rebuilt it so we get a good wiki tooJust add stuff to the Deskthority wiki.
We just need to find some sort of feature for the GH wiki to have that the DT wiki won't.
Last year there was a movement to have the wiki started back up but that died. I would totally be in for helping recreate our wiki if we had the carte blanche.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:55:47
Who said that the GH wiki has to be the same as the DT wiki?Well, the discussion here in particular was adding to existing lists of keyboards known to have particular types of switches. Seems stupid to put that anywhere but the existing Deskthority wiki.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 02:08:31
(http://i.imgur.com/i292x7S.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 09 February 2016, 02:12:42
How much are you going to remake on that M0116? Whole new case? Cut down the PCB/plate or keep the same layout?
Are you keeping the springs as they are on the linear Matias switches? (I recommend swapping in some stiffer springs, e.g. from those other Alps switches in your pic.)
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 09 February 2016, 04:44:10
Can anyone guess what my latest project is?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i292x7S.jpg)
Nice!
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 07:58:07
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 09 February 2016, 08:49:05
Post by: flabbergast on Tue, 09 February 2016, 08:56:08
Since I have the M0116.. is here an ADB-USB adapter that anybody is aware of?Yes, you can get one from hasu: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72052.0 (support the development of TMK and hardware!)
And someone from France is selling a 'commercial one' over on DT: https://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/alps-keyboards-logitech-g500-and-steelseries-keycap-t12865.html
EDIT: Or you can wire one yourself, there's a link to 'instructions' thread on hasu's page linked above.
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 09 February 2016, 08:56:51
Since I have the M0116.. is here an ADB-USB adapter that anybody is aware of?Yes, you can get one from hasu: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72052.0 (support the development of TMK and hardware!)
And someone from France is selling a 'commercial one' over on DT: https://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/alps-keyboards-logitech-g500-and-steelseries-keycap-t12865.html
Thanks!
Post by: piemancoder on Tue, 09 February 2016, 17:51:44
Post by: E3E on Tue, 09 February 2016, 18:09:05
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 09 February 2016, 18:41:19
Yeah I like a full pbt sets also!Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:44:13
(http://i.imgur.com/3iFsMp2.gif)
Here's a link to the thread for anyone who's interested: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79539.0
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:45:14
I just did a writeup in the Making Stuff Together forum, explaining how an Alps click mod works. I even made a cutaway Alps switch for illustration:Really nice mods njbair!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3iFsMp2.gif)
Here's a link to the thread for anyone who's interested: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79539.0
Edit: I have to say again really nice write!
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:54:18
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though! :)
Post by: romevi on Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:22:30
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:48:06
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:17:11
Post by: piemancoder on Wed, 10 February 2016, 06:40:34
Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though! :)
How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
Post by: flabbergast on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:13:07
I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though! :)
How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:28:29
Yeah that would be awesome!I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though! :)
How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:28:37
Yeah that would be awesome!I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though! :)
How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:32:24
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:33:42
100ish orange alpsAll righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
And mint blue apls board?
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:47:52
100ish orange alpsAll righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
And mint blue apls board?
<SNIP>
MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:51:19
Wat100ish orange alpsAll righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
And mint blue apls board?
<SNIP>
MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:01:47
Yeah that would be awesome!I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though! :)
How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
Always more PBT. Need PBT. Much.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:05:58
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
Salmon Alps in AEK2 are very rare. They only made a very few at the beginning of the run. A late-run AEK (1) would be much easier to find.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:19:02
All righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
Salmon Alps in AEK2 are very rare. They only made a very few at the beginning of the run. A late-run AEK (1) would be much easier to find.
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:20:30
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:21:23
Wat100ish orange alpsAll righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
And mint blue apls board?
<SNIP>
MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Like romevi trying to get into the Alps world, so I would be interested in what you are trying to sell... It is hard to find cheap boards, and know the quality of the switches, so having someone who knows about them and already has looked them over really helps.
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 10 February 2016, 09:43:09
Wat100ish orange alpsAll righty, I think I'm ready to dip my toes in the world of Alps. I think I've decided on the AEK II, and hopefully Salmon.I can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
Any other suggestions or is that a good place to start? At what price range should I consider searching on eBay or elsewhere? I've noticed that the prices are usually ~$50, so that seems do-able.
What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
And mint blue apls board?
Sold, just let me know where to send my pp address... :)
Like romevi trying to get into the Alps world, so I would be interested in what you are trying to sell... It is hard to find cheap boards, and know the quality of the switches, so having someone who knows about them and already has looked them over really helps.
He never even said a price lol
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:00:22
I am not aware of any manufacturer that would make PBT ALPS keycaps. It would be awesome... but the only source that I know of for PBT ALPS keycaps are old Apple keyboards. And still no PBT spacebar.Can SP make PBT Alps spacebars? And woul anyone be interested in those?
The stem spacing on Alps is strange, so if this is for the idea of backwards compatibility, then I don't know how well that'd work. Old 7u Alps space bars with cruciform mounts do not have the same stem spacing as modern 7u space bars.
I'd like a full PBT Alps set in general though for sure.
Same, I'd appreciate a full PBT set. I still like the idea of a set with secondary and maybe even tertiary legends though! :)
How hard would it be to run the GB by myself? That's kind of the main thing keeping me from making an interest check. Or maybe I could run it through massdrop.
Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:00:42
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:07:41
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Orange Alps are pretty easy to find. I would consider them a very good tactile switch.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:10:53
Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Orange Alps are pretty easy to find. I would consider them a very good tactile switch.
And those are usually in the AEK I, yes?
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:13:23
Wat100ish orange alpsI can help you get your toes into the alps world!. I got some alps that I'm about to sell hehe
What are you putting up for sale my good sir.
And mint blue apls board?
<SNIP>
MODERATION NOTE: Do not circumvent the Classifieds Rules (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56284.0) by posting outside of the Classifieds subforum.
Like romevi trying to get into the Alps world, so I would be interested in what you are trying to sell... It is hard to find cheap boards, and know the quality of the switches, so having someone who knows about them and already has looked them over really helps.
He never even said a price lol
True, I guess I expect that the prices to be fair... But I was just trying to tip him over to selling them as they are multiple interested members.
I blame the guy that asked him what he was selling! ;)
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:15:17
Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:18:41
maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:32:17
The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.
Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:32:41
Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.Ah, gotcha. Would it be better to get an AEK I with Salmon or AEK II with dampened Cream?
Sorry, don't know much about this and trying to bolster my knowledge of Alps.
Depends on what you're going for. And dampened Cream Alps have an odd bottom out that no other switch other than Matias Quiet has. There's dampeners (I think rubber) in the switches so when you bottom out it's feels cushiony and a bit bouncy. The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
I'm so conflicted! :-\
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:34:23
The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.
Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.
How significant were the changes? I know there is a lot of debate over whether blues and whites are really that different. But to me there seems to be a clear difference.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:41:05
maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.
The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.
Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.
Okay, neat. Looks like I'll be on the lookout for an AEK with orange or AEK II with Salmon. :thumb:
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:46:14
Or a IIGS. Some of those have orange.maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.
Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.
Okay, neat. Looks like I'll be on the lookout for an AEK with orange or AEK II with Salmon. :thumb:
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:48:43
It's hard to truly show any material differences between the two, but as far as I know, the vast majority of people agree blues are noticeably better than whites. The noise is also unmistakably different.The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.
Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.
How significant were the changes? I know there is a lot of debate over whether blues and whites are really that different. But to me there seems to be a clear difference.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:49:47
Or a IIGS. Some of those have orange.maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Salmon was the replacement for orange and extremely similar. They are the best tactile (but non-clicky) switches of all, in my opinion.The Salmon Alps kinda remind me of MX Browns. A light Tactile switch.Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?They’re not very much like MX brown, IMO.
Orange and salmon Alps switches are very similar. They just changed the slider colors when they changed the generation of switch design in ~1990. Blue -> white, orange -> salmon, and green -> yellow.
Okay, neat. Looks like I'll be on the lookout for an AEK with orange or AEK II with Salmon. :thumb:
Oh, sweet. I'm also looking to get a board I can use the keycaps for if I ever decide to get a custom Alps board later down the road.
All I'd need to use it with modern computers is hasu's ADB-USB converter, yes?
Post by: flabbergast on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:53:38
Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
Post by: njbair on Wed, 10 February 2016, 10:58:52
I'm kind of worried that they missed their window of opportunity. When that GB started there was no such thing as a V60 MTS, or even a hasu Alps64 PCB.Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:17:45
I'm kind of worried that they missed their window of opportunity. When that GB started there was no such thing as a V60 MTS, or even a hasu Alps64 PCB.Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
It still irks me to no end whenever I see the fat and skinny keys at the bottom row. That bottom row also makes all the current aftermarket 60% cases useless.
I really hope Matias 60% to be either extremely successful or massively failed, no middle ground life support bull****. Either it would be so revolutionary that the mass will adapt to it slowly, like HHKB, or it is utterly terrible that Matias has to rethink their direction. I would like the success route of course, since I already partook in it :-]
Post by: flabbergast on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:19:56
There will be two things working for them: the arrow cluster on the KB, and the PBT keyset. And also I think they've already funded the whole enterprise, so (at least the GB bit) should not be a completely losing proposition. Also once they'll have the molds (which should be funded essentially from the GB), they can start churning ALPS PBT sets and charging a relatively high price for them - regardless of success(hopefully) or failure of the 60% GB.I'm kind of worried that they missed their window of opportunity. When that GB started there was no such thing as a V60 MTS, or even a hasu Alps64 PCB.Matias has been making progress on aftermarket keycaps, including PBT dyesubs. No word yet on when they'll be available, though. See this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.0).True! Forgot about the Matias 60% GB. Oh, when that hits the market, it will hit pretty hard :)
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:26:34
It still irks me to no end whenever I see the fat and skinny keys at the bottom row. That bottom row also makes all the current aftermarket 60% cases useless.The fat bottom row is really the only thing that distinguishes it from any other keyboard though.. without that there wouldn’t be much point IMO.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 February 2016, 14:15:37
Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.
Yes, they are quite nice! I find them to feel the most similar to MX Clear or Ergo Clear switches than all the other tactile varieties. I've actually never tried MX brown, so I can't leave an opinion there.
Orange Alps are fantastic, but since they feel so much like blues to me, except a hair lighter and without the click, they tend to bore me these days.
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:02:59
2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 07292.html
4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 06370.html
TRS 80 - $11 1 day left no bids so far
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VT ... 99911.html
F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IB ... 98022.html
Post by: sean on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:26:55
Found some interesting stuff over on goodwill although a lot of you have probably already discovered this .
2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 07292.html
4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 06370.html
TRS 80 - $11 1 day left no bids so far
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VT ... 99911.html
F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IB ... 98022.html
Something happened to your links
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:29:24
Found some interesting stuff over on goodwill although a lot of you have probably already discovered this .
2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 07292.html
4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lo ... 06370.html
TRS 80 - $11 1 day left no bids so far
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VT ... 99911.html
F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IB ... 98022.html
Something happened to your links
you are right the correct links are below
2 Apple m0110A - currently at $10 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lot-of-2-Apple-Macintosh-Keyboards-M0110A-1-27607292.html
4 m0115 - currently at $11 5 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Lot-of-4-Apple-ADB-Extended-Keyboards-M0115-1-27606370.html
TRS 80 - $11 1 day left no bids so far
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/VTG-Radio-Shack-TRS-80-Color-Computer-2-Keyboard-27499911.html
F122 27598022(1986) $5 6 days left
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/IBM-Model-F-Computer-Keyboard-ID-No-R9726---1986-27598022.html
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:47:51
Thanks!
Post by: mastermachetier on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:14:45
Any more discussion related to buying and selling will be removed. Please maintain these types of discussion within the Classifieds subforum.
Thanks!
Sorry figured it was allowed since alps !
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:16:12
Edit: if you need to use a color, orange is okay. Not ideal on a light background, but still readable on the common themes. Pink is a bit worse but still barely readable. (The rest of the colors are all completely worthless.) Just sticking to the default color is best overall though.
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:17:50
Note: don’ use purple text on Geekhack. It’s entirely unreadable for anyone who uses the default black-background style.
Or one of the ~60 people using the orange theme. :))
(http://i.imgur.com/EqBUjQE.png)
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:05:23
Was not directed at you, sorry for the confusion.Any more discussion related to buying and selling will be removed. Please maintain these types of discussion within the Classifieds subforum.
Thanks!
Sorry figured it was allowed since alps !
Sorry about my purple text, I'll make sure to choose something else next time :)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:08:48
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.
Salmon Alps are NOTHING like MX browns xD . They're very nice switches, to date possibly the ones I type on fastest.
I don't know, I got rid of mine pretty quickly. I apparently didn't have the same experience with them as others have so I wonder if my board was in bad condition. More testing is needed but I stick by my opinion until then XD.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:12:00
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.
I considered that too, but wasn't sure if I should get vintage Alps or Matias first.
Plus, the Vintage boards seem to be better on my wallet, but I have been itching to try a 60% Alps...
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:20:30
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.
I considered that too, but wasn't sure if I should get vintage Alps or Matias first.
Plus, the Vintage boards seem to be better on my wallet, but I have been itching to try a 60% Alps...
Romevi,
I second the V60 or V80, idea. I used the V80 today, so it is fresh in my mind.
Why didn't you like Browns?
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:32:01
Hmm... Not a fan of Browns, so maybe Salmon wouldn't be for me. Any tactile switches you recommend that are easy to obtain for a beginner like me?
Romevi, you should also consider the V60 or V80 with Matias quiet click. I really think that switch is underrated.
I considered that too, but wasn't sure if I should get vintage Alps or Matias first.
Plus, the Vintage boards seem to be better on my wallet, but I have been itching to try a 60% Alps...
Romevi,
I second the V60 or V80, idea. I used the V80 today, so it is fresh in my mind.
Why didn't you like Browns?
WAY too light. Almost linear, and I prefer heavier switches for linear.
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:43:41
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter :P
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:44:55
Hasu really are awesome!Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:48:17
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter :P
Yeah not with the stock controller. If you use Hasu's USB to USB then you have to find a different key to act as the fn key as the fn key will not register..
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:49:01
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter
That's right! I keep forgetting about about that. God bless hasu.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:50:07
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter
Yeah not with the stock controller. If you use Hasu's USB to USB then you have to find a different key to act as the fn key as the fn key will not register..
And...crap. The Fn key was vital. Don't suppose I can bypass this some other way?
Eh. Maybe I'll just see if I can get a custom Alps TKL and put Matias Quiet Click.
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:52:55
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter
That's right! I keep forgetting about about that. God bless hasu.
Also on the brown comparison to Matias QC switch.
The brown actuates in the upper middle of the travel, so the light feeling you talk about is probably all the travel prior to the actuation point, once you cross it, it also seems light.
The Matias QC actuates at almost the top of the travel so it feels heavier due to that and then the rest of the travel feels slightly lighter with a cushioned bottom out feeling..
That is my opinion on clicking both at the same time with different hands same finger. So it would depend on exactly what about the light feeling you did not like.
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 19:54:44
Is the V80 programmable? Meaning Can I program a numpad in there like how the Realforce has one?
Don't think so but you can get hasu's USB to USB converter and then it won't matter
Yeah not with the stock controller. If you use Hasu's USB to USB then you have to find a different key to act as the fn key as the fn key will not register..
And...crap. The Fn key was vital. Don't suppose I can bypass this some other way?
Eh. Maybe I'll just see if I can get a custom Alps TKL and put Matias Quiet Click.
Well the fn key will still work to switch the stock alternate layer, but if you program a numpad you would have to map a different one for that.
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:33:00
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:37:12
I think I saw a post about the clueboard store opening. Does anyone have experience with the clueboard pcbs?
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.
Yes, it just opened. He already sold out of stock in hand for the pcb. What are you wanting to know about it?
I may or may not know as I asked a few questions before ordering..
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:38:34
Just overall quality, and is it programmable?I think I saw a post about the clueboard store opening. Does anyone have experience with the clueboard pcbs?
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.
Yes, it just opened. He already sold out of stock in hand for the pcb. What are you wanting to know about it?
I may or may not know as I asked a few questions before ordering..
Post by: toidbb on Wed, 10 February 2016, 20:41:38
Just overall quality, and is it programmable?I think I saw a post about the clueboard store opening. Does anyone have experience with the clueboard pcbs?
I like the form factor, but I honestly wanted my alps project to be hand wired.
Yes, it just opened. He already sold out of stock in hand for the pcb. What are you wanting to know about it?
I may or may not know as I asked a few questions before ordering..
From the accounts I have seen, it is of good quality. But this is second hand, I can report back once I receive mine. The board is programmable it uses TMK firmware.
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 00:06:15
Post by: romevi on Thu, 11 February 2016, 00:14:57
Skullydazed has a great looking PCB and compatibility with aftermarket FC660M cases. I'd try one if I didn't already buy three Alps64 boards...
Link? Is that the Clue board mentioned above?
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 07:04:54
Skullydazed has a great looking PCB and compatibility with aftermarket FC660M cases. I'd try one if I didn't already buy three Alps64 boards...
Link? Is that the Clue board mentioned above?
Yeah sorry. shop.clueboard.co
Post by: ctm on Thu, 11 February 2016, 07:39:52
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?Skullydazed has a great looking PCB and compatibility with aftermarket FC660M cases. I'd try one if I didn't already buy three Alps64 boards...
Link? Is that the Clue board mentioned above?
Yeah sorry. shop.clueboard.co
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 07:55:14
This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
Post by: ctm on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:31:27
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:40:03
Damn this is awesome!This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
Post by: romevi on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:40:12
Is it new? Any news on a restock?
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:41:43
That Clueboard looks perfect! I finally have a reason to get a Leopold-type board for a type of switch I haven't tried. Will probably get Matias Quiet.
Is it new? Any news on a restock?
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.
Not really sure about their stock and incoming stock but they've got a subforum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=183.0) where I'm sure the answer you'd get would be accurate.
Post by: romevi on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:42:31
That Clueboard looks perfect! I finally have a reason to get a Leopold-type board for a type of switch I haven't tried. Will probably get Matias Quiet.
Is it new? Any news on a restock?
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.
Not really sure about their stock and incoming stock but they've got a subforum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=183.0) where I'm sure the answer you'd get would be accurate.
Ah, thanks!
Sorry to derail. :D
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 11 February 2016, 08:44:20
Ah, thanks!
Sorry to derail. :D
It's not a derailment as much as trying to get you accurate information from the vendor himself :)
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:02:06
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
What? Justification to get another keyboard? 😉
Post by: Moistgun on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:02:16
It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
You stop!
Find a way to justify, there is always room for... one more.
I want to build another, and the only way for me to justify is alps.
I have none, and need one.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:03:12
I have one or more. I need one more.It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
You stop!
Find a way to justify, there is always room for... one more.
I want to build another, and the only way for me to justify is alps.
I have none, and need one.
Post by: axtran on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:04:50
That Clueboard looks perfect! I finally have a reason to get a Leopold-type board for a type of switch I haven't tried. Will probably get Matias Quiet.
Is it new? Any news on a restock?
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask.
Not really sure about their stock and incoming stock but they've got a subforum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=183.0) where I'm sure the answer you'd get would be accurate.
Ah, thanks!
Sorry to derail. :D
You could also hop on IRC and look for skullY ;) you know, talk keyboards, talk Clueboards, etc.
Post by: JonnyPolygon on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:09:41
Post by: njbair on Thu, 11 February 2016, 10:11:34
(http://i.imgur.com/R1F9rAo.jpg)
It's also got a surprisingly usable primary cluster layout. Notice the split right shift, Esc in the alpha cluster, Ctrl in the Caps Lock position.
If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 11 February 2016, 10:34:04
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.The back panel on one weighs more than a frying pan, I found out when I did the video on mine. You can kill intruders with just the backpanel xD .
[/quote]If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
[/quote]Ugh, what is everyone's aversion to classic boards nowadays? :p Even though these Omnikeys are not exactly lookers, surely they deserve better than that xD .
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 11 February 2016, 12:03:30
The back panel on one weighs more than a frying pan, I found out when I did the video on mine. You can kill intruders with just the backpanel xD .
Or maybe fry an egg on it?
Post by: ctm on Thu, 11 February 2016, 13:02:52
This does not work in my case. I already have an alps board. But… I don't have any linear alps board and Matias linear feels really nice. This is a good justification but I am already broke aafter buying F62 :(It's definitely on my list to consider when I find a reason to build another keyboard next time ;D For now it's hard to justify getting another keyboard cos I have one desk and two keyboards, plus an incoming one. I really have more than I need.This is awesome! I didn't know about this PCB before. Did it just come out recently or has been around for a while?
It's been around under-wraps for a bit, but it's currently just hit general availability (well, not considering they're all sold out I think since people snagged them up super quick). :) PCB compatibility with both ALPS and MX, pretty cool cases, highly recommend it.
You stop!
Find a way to justify, there is always room for... one more.
I want to build another, and the only way for me to justify is alps.
I have none, and need one.
Post by: Yoe on Thu, 11 February 2016, 13:40:20
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/R1F9rAo.jpg)
It's also got a surprisingly usable primary cluster layout. Notice the split right shift, Esc in the alpha cluster, Ctrl in the Caps Lock position.
If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
It doesn't have to go to waste! You can just.. "borrow" the caps and stabs for a while and make a 60% board. Then, if you don't like it, just put the caps back and enjoy the Omnikey in its vintage glory. I know I would. These random "don't use very often" keys among the modifiers are just screaming TAP KEY FUNCTION LAYER!! :)
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 11 February 2016, 16:02:56
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 16:18:19
part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard,
a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
You would be hard-pressed to find a better keyboard than an Omnikey, only the Model F comes to mind for solidity. If you can live with the split Right Shift, then just use it. Bigass Enter does not bother me, but it usually comes with 1x Backspace and I cannot tolerate that.
Unfortunately, I have had little success Retro-briting Northgate keys, although I have gotten the cases to lighten up pretty well.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:26:09
Inn trying to put my M0116 back together and the spacebar keeps binding. I figured out that the stab wire is causing it. Any suggestions?I broke my enter keys on my board I don't know how to remove the stabilized keys its tarder than costar stabs
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.What switch bro?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/R1F9rAo.jpg)
It's also got a surprisingly usable primary cluster layout. Notice the split right shift, Esc in the alpha cluster, Ctrl in the Caps Lock position.
If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.
Its really that solid? How much does it weight?
I recently found an old alps keyboard in some of my old stuff, going to give it a good cleaning and post some picsCmon snap some pic already!
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:34:33
What switch bro?
Pretty much all Northgate Omnikeys are complicated white Alps except for the very earliest ones with gold foil label, which are blues.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 11 February 2016, 17:35:37
Blue alps on those case must be really geod!
What switch bro?
Pretty much all Northgate Omnikeys are complicated white Alps except for the very earliest ones with gold foil label, which are blues.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 18:23:48
Blue alps on those case must be really geod!
What switch bro?
Pretty much all Northgate Omnikeys are complicated white Alps except for the very earliest ones with gold foil label, which are blues.
The old layout with 10 function keys left and bigass Enter is far less than optimal. And that particular variant is rare and expensive.
I bought a 101 and transplanted blue Alps into it to replace the whites for my top-shelf Northgate.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 11 February 2016, 18:56:56
If I'm going to restore this thing it's going to require a lot of elbow grease. I'll eventually make the time for it, but part of me wants to turn this into a frankenboard, like an oversized 60% with the F-keys on the left. Can someone talk me out of it? It would be a cool board, but a real shame to let such a rock-solid chassis go to waste.I think you’d be better off figuring out the precise layout you want and contracting someone to waterjet a plate in that shape, instead of cutting this board down, since you’ll need a custom case, controller, etc. anyway.
If you really want to “frankenboard” an existing plate/pcb, you can probably find one in a similar layout in a ****ty case, though finding one with F keys on the left might present a challenge. Do ebay searches for "AT keyboard" or similar.
But anyway, I say do whatever you want. There are enough Omnikeys in the world that butchering one up isn’t like destroying some priceless relic. You could probably resell the case to someone who wants to use it for their own project.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 19:09:37
You could probably resell the case to someone who wants to use it for their own project.
True this. I probably have 2 101 case/PCBs from failed experiments that I would sell for cheap.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 11 February 2016, 21:03:31
I didn't look that closely at the cable, is it just a normal PS2 connection?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 February 2016, 21:15:50
is it just a normal PS2 connection?
Original is a male PS/2-to-male-AT but a male-male PS/2 should work OK and avoid the AT-to-PS/2 adapter on the computer side.
My original male-male PS/2 cable was bad so I developed a straight fixed PS/2 cable guide.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 11 February 2016, 23:50:13
I recently picked up a Northgate OmniKey on Ebay. It's very yellow and very dirty. But it's an absolute tank! I'm thinking about leaning it against my bedpost as a weapon to swing at intruders.
I keep most of my vintages in those USPS flat rate board game boxes or whatever beside my bed. I too have thought of how they'd be great weapons against intruders, though I would be upset in having to wreck my beloved keyboards over some jerk's face. Lol.
The AT101 has such a long cable, it'd make a fantastic flail, hahahaha. I also have the bottom metal panel from my poor NTC 6151N that'd make an excellent death frisbee.
Post by: khronokrator on Fri, 12 February 2016, 02:37:53
Pretty much all Northgate Omnikeys are complicated white Alps except for the very earliest ones with gold foil label, which are blues.
If my experience with the Ultra TP is any indication, I'm willing to bet that any later-generation Omnikeys made with Windows keys have simplified Alps and/or clones, sadly. :(
Avant almost certainly used clones.
Post by: ctm on Fri, 12 February 2016, 07:39:16
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 12 February 2016, 07:57:05
If my experience with the Ultra TP is any indication, I'm willing to bet that any later-generation Omnikeys made with Windows keys have simplified Alps and/or clones, sadly.
Avant almost certainly used clones.
That is probably right. I have never seen an Omnikey with Windows keys.
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 12 February 2016, 12:26:58
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 12 February 2016, 12:36:06
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 12 February 2016, 14:56:10
Coming soon I'll be posting my AEK which I just fully restored and it is looking great. :)
Pics! Could you make a sound video? I'm so curious how it sounds.. For nostalgia purposes..
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Fri, 12 February 2016, 16:06:18
^ ThisComing soon I'll be posting my AEK which I just fully restored and it is looking great. :)
Pics! Could you make a sound video? I'm so curious how it sounds.. For nostalgia purposes..
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 12 February 2016, 16:08:16
Coming soon I'll be posting my AEK which I just fully restored and it is looking great. :)Loookin good mane! Pics and vids plesase
Post by: khronokrator on Fri, 12 February 2016, 17:14:58
That is probably right. I have never seen an Omnikey with Windows keys.
They are strangely rare, yes. All I can guesstimate is that they hail from the final years of Northgate and they may have only made a relatively small number of them before vanishing from the market (there's an unknown amount of time before Avant picked up their designs and started selling them again).
They have a few curious features: every model with a Windows key had a P appended to its model number (e.g. 101P, Ultra TP, etc.) and to accommodate the Windows key and right-click keys onthe bottom row they took the unusual design decision of making every key there single-width.
The build quality seems to be the same as the earlier models, but the Ps were (again) apparently made with Alps clones instead of genuine complicated switches. They also lacked DIP switches (the bay under the badge is just empty space) and don't have removable cables, but otherwise seem to use the same chassis.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northgate-Omni-Key-101-Windows-ALPS-AT-Keyboard-P-N-KYBD101P-tested-/361084198037?hash=item54124b9c95:g:3ZIAAOSwq7JULD6V
This has been on eBay for months. I actually bought the other one this guy is selling, at what I think was too high a price (I was much dumber in the world of Alps last year). The switches were in awful condition (sticky and refused to actuate unless pressed down directly on the center) and the backplate has a lot of rust spots, so I ended up using my horrible soldering skills to swap out the switches for Matias Clicky ones.
This was how I knew the expensive NOS Ultra TP I bought from Robert Tibbets had simplified/clone Alps... they sound and feel nearly identical to the Matias switches I put into the 101P, and nothing like the Chicony or Focus I own with genuine complicated Alps. :(
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 12 February 2016, 17:54:01
switches I put into the 101P,
Holy Cow !
An Omnikey 101 exists with Windows keys? And without that stupid detachable coiled cable?
Now that really is a unicorn and a Holy Grail chassis for somebody like me.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 12 February 2016, 18:12:46
If you Google Image "Northgate Omnikey" you can see several different ones, actually :) . Don't know about the cables on them, though.
If my experience with the Ultra TP is any indication, I'm willing to bet that any later-generation Omnikeys made with Windows keys have simplified Alps and/or clones, sadly.
Avant almost certainly used clones.
That is probably right. I have never seen an Omnikey with Windows keys.
Post by: khronokrator on Fri, 12 February 2016, 18:59:31
Fohat, that board I linked is currently the only 101P on eBay. I'm sure there are more, but as I said, they don't seem to turn up very often, which leads me to believe they had a brief or limited production run.
They do make great chassis for Alps keyboards, however, which is why I plan to harvest and transplant the switches out of NOS complicated Alps keyboards as I can get my hands on them. If I trust my soldering skills, which I'm not sure that I do... I apparently killed the Home and End keys during the 101P's transplant, at any rate.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 12 February 2016, 19:12:46
that board I linked is currently the only 101P on eBay.
What? 101 was the designation for the straight-ANSI layout in the original series. I did not bother to count the keys on your ebay listing but I dare say that it was several more than 101.
Unless it has ANSI Enter, 2x Backspace, and conventional shift keys, I don't give a damn about it. Frankly, I am relieved that I do not have to go on another quest.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 12 February 2016, 19:17:58
An Omnikey 101 exists with Windows keys? And without that stupid detachable coiled cable?Note the “bigass” enter though.
Now that really is a unicorn and a Holy Grail chassis for somebody like me.
Post by: khronokrator on Fri, 12 February 2016, 19:58:48
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 12 February 2016, 20:07:04
just has a few more keys smashed into the bottom row.
That would be just peachy if they had smashed the Windows keys into the bottom row of the 101 instead of one (or more) their goofball layouts.
Better yet, if they enhanced the bottom row and added back the left function keys while keeping the top functions as well.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 12 February 2016, 20:32:41
Alps forever.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 12 February 2016, 20:39:42
(http://i.imgur.com/il1exWK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dEUZsOO.jpg)
Post by: khronokrator on Fri, 12 February 2016, 21:05:34
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 12 February 2016, 21:42:10
That's polished up into an incredible keyboard. What would one use to get the yellow out of the plastic, short of dyeing?
Retr0bright. If you search the forums or even google, there is a fair amount of information out there on it.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 12 February 2016, 22:50:00
You know you're dedicated to Alps when your desoldering gun has a tip just for em. The legs on Alps are slightly bigger than MX switches.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 12 February 2016, 22:53:19
I need a real desoldering gun. Harvesting an entire AEKII worth of SKCM creams the other day was simply exhausting.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/cfda5f80d0ce4d8a246f898b7fa59ebd.jpg)
You know you're dedicated to Alps when your desoldering gun has a tip just for em. The legs on Alps are slightly bigger than MX switches.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Fri, 12 February 2016, 22:59:59
Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/cfda5f80d0ce4d8a246f898b7fa59ebd.jpg)
You know you're dedicated to Alps when your desoldering gun has a tip just for em. The legs on Alps are slightly bigger than MX switches.
Haha when i first got my desoldering gun i wasnt able to use it on Alps right away because of that, had to order a 1.2mm tip for them, is that what you use also?
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 13 February 2016, 00:17:43
I didn't think to take a picture before restoration, but I at least have a couple from after. The board was covered in grime and dirt and the plastic was badly yellowed except for a spot in the corner when a sticker had been which was still nice and white. :)) I also took a photo of the full keyboard but it turns out to be all blurry and it's late here so all I have are these two. :rolleyes:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/il1exWK.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dEUZsOO.jpg)
That looks great! AEK's really do come out nicely. The only reason I swapped SKCM Orange into my SGI Granite rather than just buy a AEK is because moving the bumps to D/K kill my typist speed, and swapping the caps looks awful imo.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 13 February 2016, 00:25:45
Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/cfda5f80d0ce4d8a246f898b7fa59ebd.jpg)
You know you're dedicated to Alps when your desoldering gun has a tip just for em. The legs on Alps are slightly bigger than MX switches.
Haha when i first got my desoldering gun i wasnt able to use it on Alps right away because of that, had to order a 1.2mm tip for them, is that what you use also?
Using a Hakko A1006, 1.3mm tip.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:07:32
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:22:11
Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver. Oh, and Leeku made an MXAlps PCB for the G80-3000 too. It supported it under one revision at least, then cut support for Alps after the next revision, I think.
Right, and lastly the upcoming VE.A will support both MX and Alps.
If you want to go further, there's the Infinity, Infinity Ergodox, Alps Party, and Clueboard that all support Alps too, aaaand the Monarch.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:26:01
Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Post by: axtran on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:37:28
Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:40:34
Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?
You can certainly try. :thumb:
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 02:11:45
Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Post by: henz on Sat, 13 February 2016, 03:06:37
Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 03:13:56
Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Post by: henz on Sat, 13 February 2016, 03:42:36
Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Goes wothout saying i want it :)
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 03:57:33
Bruh.Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Goes wothout saying i want it :)
If we could gather some interest we could easily get the pcb and plate!
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 13 February 2016, 05:30:34
That's polished up into an incredible keyboard. What would one use to get the yellow out of the plastic, short of dyeing?
I have a Retrobright setup in my closet, the bulb is about a foot from the shelf so I exchange the bulb with my CFL blacklight and place the boards on the shelf wrapped in plastic with 40% hydrogen peroxide gel.
That looks great! AEK's really do come out nicely. The only reason I swapped SKCM Orange into my SGI Granite rather than just buy a AEK is because moving the bumps to D/K kill my typist speed, and swapping the caps looks awful imo.
Yeah the dots on DK are an oddity but not enough for me not to use it. I barely use them anyways.
Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/cfda5f80d0ce4d8a246f898b7fa59ebd.jpg)
You know you're dedicated to Alps when your desoldering gun has a tip just for em. The legs on Alps are slightly bigger than MX switches.
Really? The tip included on my Aoyue fits Alps just fine.
I need a real desoldering gun. Harvesting an entire AEKII worth of SKCM creams the other day was simply exhausting.
I'd suggest getting an Aoyue if you can, they aren't quite as nice as Hakko but I'm loving my rework station.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 06:13:29
So the only tkl is kingsaver,lz fe and orion v2 right? Korean custom doesn't have much option on alps eh?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver. Oh, and Leeku made an MXAlps PCB for the G80-3000 too. It supported it under one revision at least, then cut support for Alps after the next revision, I think.
Right, and lastly the upcoming VE.A will support both MX and Alps.
If you want to go further, there's the Infinity, Infinity Ergodox, Alps Party, and Clueboard that all support Alps too, aaaand the Monarch.
Uh I wish that every custom have an option for alps plate and a pcb that supports both like the clueboard!
Post by: henz on Sat, 13 February 2016, 06:43:17
Bruh.Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Goes wothout saying i want it :)
If we could gather some interest we could easily get the pcb and plate!
Do an IC, I can help out to some extent.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 07:03:20
Sure bro! I'll make an IC when leeku replied to my MessageBruh.Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Goes wothout saying i want it :)
If we could gather some interest we could easily get the pcb and plate!
Do an IC, I can help out to some extent.
Post by: mastermachetier on Sat, 13 February 2016, 11:36:51
Thanks !!
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 13 February 2016, 11:58:50
Does anyone have a few different common alps switches they can send my way for me to try I am willing to pay ? Interested in alps green, white , cream, cream dampened , salmon , white dampened, and matias as well . :) Also if you have the more rare ones you don't mind letting me try . I am also willing to pay for shipping here and back if someone wants to lend me some .
Thanks !!
Green, Cream, and White Damped aren't common. ;)
Post by: mastermachetier on Sat, 13 February 2016, 12:01:09
Does anyone have a few different common alps switches they can send my way for me to try I am willing to pay ? Interested in alps green, white , cream, cream dampened , salmon , white dampened, and matias as well . :) Also if you have the more rare ones you don't mind letting me try . I am also willing to pay for shipping here and back if someone wants to lend me some .
Thanks !!
Green, Cream, and White Damped aren't common. ;)
Good to know :(
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 13 February 2016, 12:05:12
Orihalcon is selling some fine test kits on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281933137057?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281933137057?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 13 February 2016, 14:38:36
Example:
More
Sure bro! I'll make an IC when leeku replied to my MessageBruh.Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Goes wothout saying i want it :)
If we could gather some interest we could easily get the pcb and plate!
Do an IC, I can help out to some extent.
Post by: henz on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:41:26
Hey bocahgundul and henz (and others): can you guys stop quoting whole nested comment chains? Just delete the part that’s not immediately relevant context for your comment. Nobody wants to look at the same giant blob of nested chitchat ten times in a row.
Example:MoreSure bro! I'll make an IC when leeku replied to my MessageBruh.Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Goes wothout saying i want it :)
If we could gather some interest we could easily get the pcb and plate!
Do an IC, I can help out to some extent.
Thank you for your input :-*. I wouldn't normally do that, but its not easy to edit forum quotes on my nexus phone(having a newbie taking upp all my spare time). I know you're going to say something in the lines of: "stop quoting then". This was important, just wanted to make sure it reached the recipient.
Post by: romevi on Sat, 13 February 2016, 18:56:05
white dampened are common, look for end-run AEK2s copyright 1995
Orihalcon is selling some fine test kits on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281933137057?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281933137057?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
I saw that, but the price seemed a bit steep. Is it reasonable?
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 13 February 2016, 19:01:58
Is it reasonable?
It would take several hundred dollars and several months, minimum, to do it the old-fashioned way: find and purchase 1 each of keyboards bearing those switches and try them yourself.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 February 2016, 19:12:31
Is it reasonable?
It would take several hundred dollars and several months, minimum, to do it the old-fashioned way: find and purchase 1 each of keyboards bearing those switches and try them yourself.
Yeah, but then he could fashion testers himself and make a little profit :P
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 13 February 2016, 19:33:49
Hey bocahgundul and henz (and others): can you guys stop quoting whole nested comment chains? Just delete the part that’s not immediately relevant context for your comment. Nobody wants to look at the same giant blob of nested chitchat ten times in a row.Good to know jacob, ah forgot to use @ cause editing post is hard on phone
Example:MoreSure bro! I'll make an IC when leeku replied to my MessageBruh.Ok bro. Anybody that haves LZ that wants the pcb and plate too?Thank you!Can I pm leeku for that plate and pcb for lz fe?Can I ask you guys what is the other custom board that can accept alps beside kingsaver and the alps party keyboard?
As far as I know (thanks to itzmeluigi), there's the LZ-FE and Orion v2 (both need the Leeku Alphas PCB and plate) and then that's it.
Well, the Duck Mini and Duck Viper/Eagle can too. As well as the Duck Lightpad, which is a number pad.
And then yes, of course, the Kingsaver.
Why don't you just try? ;)
He's pretty busy fulfilling Compact SQ GB orders right now, but he's answered all of my questions via PM.
Please let me know hos this goes.
Goes wothout saying i want it :)
If we could gather some interest we could easily get the pcb and plate!
Do an IC, I can help out to some extent.
This is the second time so I'm sorry
Post by: khronokrator on Sat, 13 February 2016, 23:58:49
I'd suggest getting an Aoyue if you can, they aren't quite as nice as Hakko but I'm loving my rework station.
I looked up that Aoyue rework station just now on Amazon. Wow, talk about extensive. :eek:
A bit out of my budget at the moment, so I'll have to make do with my cheap $30 soldering iron. I'm not really sure what I'd use the heat gun for, though.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 14 February 2016, 05:34:20
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 14 February 2016, 07:20:23
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 February 2016, 07:43:37
Post by: romevi on Sun, 14 February 2016, 07:57:59
after a week of using blue alps I have to say that I can't appreciate blue alps at all!. I'm sorry alps god but I have to sell this board and next is green alps!I'll take it. ;)
Post by: njbair on Sun, 14 February 2016, 08:05:05
Desoldering is not too bad if the tech who assembled it originally did not bend the legs over before soldering them!Why do they do this? Most of the Apple boards I've harvested, had a mix of bent and unbent.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 February 2016, 08:09:57
Why do they do this? Most of the Apple boards I've harvested, had a mix of bent and unbent.
If you put a few around "dry" and crimp them down, then they hold the plates together while you solder in the rest.
Otherwise, there could be some lift somewhere in between and the switch body would not be held tight against the plate.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 14 February 2016, 08:17:11
That would explain why they usually seem to be the ones on the outside of each key cluster. I always start in the corners when I build a board.
Why do they do this? Most of the Apple boards I've harvested, had a mix of bent and unbent.
If you put a few around "dry" and crimp them down, then they hold the plates together while you solder in the rest.
Otherwise, there could be some lift somewhere in between and the switch body would not be held tight against the plate.
Thanks for the sensible explanation.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:14:42
On the other hand, there are some OEMs / workers who just love bending the leads down, and sometimes you’ll get a board with most or all of the leads bent.
The trick to desoldering switches with bent leads is:
(1) Pull all the solder out that you can, as you would otherwise.
(2) Use some kind of pointy metal thing to apply upward pressure to the bent lead while you apply heat to the lead with your soldering iron tip. The lead should in general just “pop” free of the pad, without lifting the pad off the board.
(3) Unbend the lead using some small snipe-nose pliers.
If many of the switches have bent leads, it’s fastest to do these with a batch process: first remove the solder from all the joints, then unstick all the leads from the pads, then unbend all the leads, then remove the PCB. (With Alps switches in particular, it’s better to pull the PCB off the back and then carefully remove switches from the plate from the back side, to avoid breaking the little plastic “wings” on the sides of the switch housing.)
Once you get the hang of it and get into a nice flow, desoldering a lead with bent leads takes about 2x the time of desoldering any other switch. (Amortized time, after batching different steps.)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:32:13
Why do they do this? Most of the Apple boards I've harvested, had a mix of bent and unbent.
If you put a few around "dry" and crimp them down, then they hold the plates together while you solder in the rest.
Otherwise, there could be some lift somewhere in between and the switch body would not be held tight against the plate.
I guess they never heard of just keeping the PCB upside down and soldering the switches at the corners and any points that would help anchor the two parts together before working on the rest, eh?
We all know that it's possible to have a tight fit without crimping the legs.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 14 February 2016, 15:30:13
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 February 2016, 15:49:15
Bending the leads down at the corners of the PCB is an entirely reasonable thing to do.
Plus, they never anticipated anything more than a very rare single switch replacement repair job.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 February 2016, 16:12:15
If you’re running an assembly line which needs to produce X keyboards per hour with a mixed-skill workforce doing the soldering, you want to have a well-defined process which cuts the defect rate to the extent possible while keeping throughput up. Bending the leads down at the corners of the PCB is an entirely reasonable thing to do.
Oh, it's not unreasonable at all. I'm sure there was no anticipation that their keyboards would reach enthusiast level in 20 + years time with people making efforts to remove the switches for their own projects or swapping in different switches which were never commonly available to the public outside of other keyboards. Even so, that wasn't their intended purpose anyway. :P It's just fun to nitpick, though I have seen a few (but not many) boards with no bent pins at all.
To do something quick and efficiently and with good repeatability, yeah, bending the pins over would be a great way to handle it. It's hard to believe that someone manually put these together by hand. I have no idea how assembly lines worked back in the day, but it kind of boggles my mind if that was the case.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 14 February 2016, 16:17:32
California. Lots of cheap migrant labor.If you’re running an assembly line which needs to produce X keyboards per hour with a mixed-skill workforce doing the soldering, you want to have a well-defined process which cuts the defect rate to the extent possible while keeping throughput up. Bending the leads down at the corners of the PCB is an entirely reasonable thing to do.
Oh, it's not unreasonable at all. I'm sure there was no anticipation that their keyboards would reach enthusiast level in 20 + years time with people making efforts to remove the switches for their own projects or swapping in different switches which were never commonly available to the public outside of other keyboards. Even so, that wasn't their intended purpose anyway.It's just fun to nitpick, though I have seen a few (but not many) boards with no bent pins at all.
To do something quick and efficiently and with good repeatability, yeah, bending the pins over would be a great way to handle it. It's hard to believe that someone manually put these together by hand. I have no idea how assembly lines worked back in the day, but it kind of boggles my mind if that was the case.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 14 February 2016, 17:00:31
In general, there’s a huge amount of manual assembly still involved in making electronic gadgets.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 February 2016, 18:55:59
I’m think keyboard switches are still mostly soldered down by hand.One of the guys at the recycling centre made PCBs, among others for keyboards. Apparently it's all done by machines. The solder is put on the contacts and is melted in a kind of oven. This would also explain why the contacts are bent on some or all of them, it simply uses that to keep the two together beforehand. He even mentioned that unlike the older boards, the new membrane ones can't be automated as easily because the membranes melt in the heat - so in a way it's more complicated to make rubber dome keyboards than the hi-tech ones before them :p .
In general, there’s a huge amount of manual assembly still involved in making electronic gadgets.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 14 February 2016, 19:28:25
Complicated, maybe, but I guess the material costs must be vastly lower than discrete switches or else rubber domes would have never become the standard for free/low cost keyboards.I’m think keyboard switches are still mostly soldered down by hand.One of the guys at the recycling centre made PCBs, among others for keyboards. Apparently it's all done by machines. The solder is put on the contacts and is melted in a kind of oven. This would also explain why the contacts are bent on some or all of them, it simply uses that to keep the two together beforehand. He even mentioned that unlike the older boards, the new membrane ones can't be automated as easily because the membranes melt in the heat - so in a way it's more complicated to make rubber dome keyboards than the hi-tech ones before them
In general, there’s a huge amount of manual assembly still involved in making electronic gadgets.
Then again, had switches remained the standard past the early '90s, and thus has been produced at the scale of the dot com boom, I wonder how cheap they would be today.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 14 February 2016, 19:29:00
[...] made PCBs, among others for keyboards. Apparently it's all done by machines. The solder is put on the contacts and is melted in a kind of oven.I’m sure that’s the case for surface-mount components (microcontroller, resistors, diodes, etc.). We’re talking about the keyswitches themselves though. They can apparently do it with robots these days though:
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 February 2016, 19:55:24
Hmmm, could well be. Next time I see him I'll ask him in more detail :) .[...] made PCBs, among others for keyboards. Apparently it's all done by machines. The solder is put on the contacts and is melted in a kind of oven.I’m sure that’s the case for surface-mount components (microcontroller, resistors, diodes, etc.). We’re talking about the keyswitches themselves though. They can apparently do it with robots these days though:
Post by: njbair on Sun, 14 February 2016, 19:59:17
Anything can be automated. It's just a question of whether the scale of production is large enough to amortize the substantial initial investment. Again, I'd bet if the Ergodox was sold by the hundred thousand, there would be a fully automated robotic assembly line pick-and-placing those switches prior to the robotic soldering.[...] made PCBs, among others for keyboards. Apparently it's all done by machines. The solder is put on the contacts and is melted in a kind of oven.I’m sure that’s the case for surface-mount components (microcontroller, resistors, diodes, etc.). We’re talking about the keyswitches themselves though. They can apparently do it with robots these days though:
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 14 February 2016, 20:06:14
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Mon, 15 February 2016, 19:36:52
Finally got around to replacing the D07-135 I took apart forever ago as part of a failed project. The only color left at this point is the pink ("strawberry"), but in the dim perpetual half-light of my apartment, it's almost red, and thus surprisingly inoffensive. Reckon they've still got a few left, if anyone wants to try tactile ALPS on the cheap.
Post by: frogthejam19 on Tue, 16 February 2016, 09:15:28
Prices are really getting out of hand. I hope no one buys this so the prices of these boards can fall back down to earth where they belong. If this continues I guess I'll never get to type on a blue Alps board. :( :( :(
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 16 February 2016, 09:32:02
so the prices of these boards can fall back down to earth where they belong.
Prices "belong" at whatever point at least 1 person is willing to pay.
Just because every buyer always wants prices to be low is irrelevant.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 16 February 2016, 09:33:41
I wish more people understood this. At least they all seem to understand it when it's time to sell their stuff.
so the prices of these boards can fall back down to earth where they belong.
Prices "belong" at whatever point at least 1 person is willing to pay.
Just because every buyer always wants prices to be low is irrelevant.
Post by: frogthejam19 on Tue, 16 February 2016, 09:42:57
so the prices of these boards can fall back down to earth where they belong.
Prices "belong" at whatever point at least 1 person is willing to pay.
Just because every buyer always wants prices to be low is irrelevant.
:)) :)) True. I'm but I wonder if this will sell. I don't doubt it though. If that Apple Keyboard with Sold for more than 300 I dont doubt that these will sell as well.
I wish more people understood this. At least they all seem to understand it when it's time to sell their stuff.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 16 February 2016, 13:06:53
so the prices of these boards can fall back down to earth where they belong.
Prices "belong" at whatever point at least 1 person is willing to pay.
Just because every buyer always wants prices to be low is irrelevant.
:)) :)) True. I'm but I wonder if this will sell. I don't doubt it though. If that Apple Keyboard with Sold for more than 300 I dont doubt that these will sell as well.
I wish more people understood this. At least they all seem to understand it when it's time to sell their stuff.
The AEK sold for more than $500.
This keyboard is actually a lot more rare as it is the double shot version of the Acer KB101, whereas normally the caps are dye sublimed ABS.
You seldom ever see these, to be honest. I think the price is fair IF there's someone crazy enough to pay for it, and there was someone from Japan crazy enough to pay $500 for a common board, not to mention one that was manufactured in Japan. I'm not sure of the AEK's distribution, but I'd imagine it'd be a bit more common seeing as other Japanese companies like NEC and Sharp and Alps itself seem to have oddles of noodles of boards over there in Sunrise Land.
Though it is an Apple board, so I don't know, maybe they weren't so common there despite being manufactured there. Perhaps that was just the PCB and not the housing. :P
Post by: engicoder on Tue, 16 February 2016, 14:08:37
Most keyboards are done in solder pools these days, just look at a Keycool or Rapoo PCB. On both I've found random bits of solder from the process.
Through hole stuff has generally been done with wave soldering where the board with the leads pointing down is passed over a standing wave of solder.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 16 February 2016, 16:13:16
Most keyboards are done in solder pools these days, just look at a Keycool or Rapoo PCB. On both I've found random bits of solder from the process.
Through hole stuff has generally been done with wave soldering where the board with the leads pointing down is passed over a standing wave of solder.
Not sure if you are agreeing with me but we are talking about the same thing. ;)
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 17 February 2016, 21:06:56
Post by: sean on Wed, 17 February 2016, 22:00:29
PCB of a Microterm board I harvested the switches off of.
Cool! Do you plan on making use of the LED cutouts?
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 17 February 2016, 23:01:23
Cool! Do you plan on making use of the LED cutouts?
I really don't know how to be honest. Can you install custom ones with the soarer converter?
Post by: sean on Wed, 17 February 2016, 23:14:26
Cool! Do you plan on making use of the LED cutouts?
I really don't know how to be honest. Can you install custom ones with the soarer converter?
I've never done it before so I'm unaware of the process myself. E3E probably has a write up about his LED mod somewhere.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 February 2016, 00:31:51
Cool! Do you plan on making use of the LED cutouts?
I really don't know how to be honest. Can you install custom ones with the soarer converter?
tl;dr: Many Alps PCBs don't allow for LED compatibility. If you do find one of the few that do (or are a wizard), then you'll still have to drill LED holes for each housing because only switches with LEDs inserted from the factory have holes in the bottom housing for the LED legs.
I went the "easy" route for LEDs since I'm far from an electrical wizard. I chose the Duck Eagle PCBs since they were, at the time, the only PCBs (aside from a particular Leeku full-size PCB and the Duck Mini, and possibly the V60, although that would require a bit more work to get fully operational LEDs) that had options for LEDs.
This is primarily because the PCB was designed for MX or Alps switches, and by virtue of accepting Cherry MX, it also had LED pads.
That said, you'll have to take a drill to each one of the housings to allow the LED legs to actually pass through the housing because, unless the switches came pre-installed with LEDs, then there are no holes on the bottoms of those housings.
The new Infinity model also has LED compatibility now, so if you want to make some backlit Alps boards like mine, you can go for that! Might take a few months though.
The V60MTS (and V80MTS, I think) is supposedly compatible, but no one has documented using it with backlighting yet. You'll need resistors for that one.
EDIT:
Post by: njbair on Fri, 19 February 2016, 10:10:37
(http://i.imgur.com/Pa9cZKO.jpg)
It's an Alps Party ANSI with blue Alps switches, Tai Hao Olivetti keycaps, and a blue-gray 3D printed Z-case from Ziptyze's recent buy.
Although I'm generally a fan of the Infinity/HHKB layout for 60% boards, I bought this ANSI plate during Alps Party with the specific intention of using one of my Tai Hao Alps sets. I've already got the Tai Hao Dolch caps on my Filco Zero, and I had the Olivetti and WoB sets just sitting around. This board gives them something to do. And I have to say, these caps feel wonderful on the blue Alps switches.
(http://i.imgur.com/PevYibF.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/jcThKNM.jpg)
This build was pretty straightforward, as the Tai Hao keycaps accept Alps stabilizer clips, so getting this to work with the Matias stabilizer set was pretty painless. I did have to bend new wires for the spacebar and right shift, and I'm still trying to think of a way to laterally stabilize Alps spacebars that don't have a spot for the little cylindrical plunger. If we had it all to do over again, I think the plates for Alps Party should have all had cutouts for Costar stabs as well as Alps. But live and learn, right? I'll come up with something.
The Tai Hao keycaps, like Alpine Winter, are very tight fitting into the switches. Too tight, I think. So I used the same trick on these caps as I first tried on Alpine Winter, shaving down two adjacent corners of the stem.
(http://i.imgur.com/YsWQLX6.jpg)
The rectangle shape, while very secure, is much less forgiving to tiny size differences than the Cherry MX stem. So if you have a cap that's too tight, you can relieve a lot of pressure by taking a utility knife and shaving a slice off of two corners. I usually do the two rear corners because they are the easiest to get to.
Note that the cap is still not loose by any means. It's plenty tight enough for heavy use. But it's much easier and safer to pull caps with this modification. So if you consider yourself a frequent keycap puller, it's definitely worth the extra time to perform this simple mod.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 19 February 2016, 13:31:43
(http://i.imgur.com/TR1aCit.jpg)
They are his and hers boards I made for my girlfriend and I for Christmas.
(http://i.imgur.com/Nvhl34f.jpg)
There is so much more room on my desk now that the AT101W has been replaced.
(http://i.imgur.com/ww7iAFA.jpg)
Edit: A longer explanation of the gift in the context of the GB can be found here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75491.msg2059349#msg2059349).
Post by: mastermachetier on Fri, 19 February 2016, 13:50:33
I demand appreciation of these glorious Alps boards.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TR1aCit.jpg)
They are his and hers boards I made for my girlfriend and I for Christmas.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Nvhl34f.jpg)
There is so much more room on my desk now that the AT101W has been replaced.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ww7iAFA.jpg)
Edit: A longer explanation of the gift in the context of the GB can be found here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75491.msg2059349#msg2059349).
What board is that and how can I get them !! I have been wanting to transplant the orange alps from this m0116 onto something awesome.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 19 February 2016, 14:20:20
Post by: pwade3 on Fri, 19 February 2016, 14:51:05
I have access to an old board with white alps, I'm not sure what it is offhand, but it's old enough that it's a 5 pin DIN cable. The problem is that it's yellowed from smoke/age and one keycap is missing and the stem of the switch is broken, the switches themselves felt pretty nice though. Someone suggested I harvest the switches and get something like the Infinity board on massdrop right now.
I thought this sounded like a fun little project, but I'm not sure about the costs since I have no soldering iron, etc. I've got a Shine 5 so this wouldn't be for my main board, it'd just be to maybe take to work or trade off/sell in the future. I mentioned it to my friend but he just asked why I'd use old switches instead of just buying new (plus if I went new, I could just go MX, so I'd have more keycap compatibility). Which is a pretty solid point, so here I am.
So what I'm wondering is would these old switches have any advantage over just buying new ones?
Post by: axtran on Fri, 19 February 2016, 14:54:56
If you want a 60% then I'd suggest getting a V60 and a 60% case from TEX or similar. I might actually get rid of my V60 soon, it's nice for typing but it's a pain without having dedicated Home, End, Del, etc.
I actually recommend a custom with TMK. It really turned 60% into something super awesome since you can customize the daylights out of the board I'm going to be making one of my ALPS64 boards into an AEK with Blue ALPS, can't wait!
Post by: mastermachetier on Fri, 19 February 2016, 15:08:34
If you want a 60% then I'd suggest getting a V60 and a 60% case from TEX or similar. I might actually get rid of my V60 soon, it's nice for typing but it's a pain without having dedicated Home, End, Del, etc.
I actually recommend a custom with TMK. It really turned 60% into something super awesome since you can customize the daylights out of the board I'm going to be making one of my ALPS64 boards into an AEK with Blue ALPS, can't wait!
did you end up making your own pcb from the files or did you purchase one ?
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 19 February 2016, 16:26:36
Post by: romevi on Fri, 19 February 2016, 16:28:35
Wish there was a custom alps TKL PCB...
The Clueboard comes close enough. Not exactly TKL, but there are still the arrows and you can program the two other buttons to whatever you wish.
Post by: axtran on Fri, 19 February 2016, 16:57:16
Wish there was a custom alps TKL PCB...
There is one. I have it in my Orion v2.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:27:05
Wish there was a custom alps TKL PCB...If all you want is an Alps TKL, try to snag a used Filco Zero. Rock solid chassis, should be easy enough to swap out switches, becomes programmable with a Pegasus Hoof, and it's compatible with the Aluminum TKL case tops for sale on mechanicalkeyboards.com.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:27:59
If all you want is an Alps TKL, try to snag a used Filco Zero. Rock solid chassis, should be easy enough to swap out switches, becomes programmable with a Pegasus Hoof, and it's compatible with the Aluminum TKL case tops for sale on mechanicalkeyboards.com.
The V80 with a Hasu to Hasu converter might be a viable option too.
Post by: romevi on Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:35:03
Wish there was a custom alps TKL PCB...If all you want is an Alps TKL, try to snag a used Filco Zero. Rock solid chassis, should be easy enough to swap out switches, becomes programmable with a Pegasus Hoof, and it's compatible with the Aluminum TKL case tops for sale on mechanicalkeyboards.com.
Dang. Nice. May try this route.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:35:23
Very much so. I just looked into it, and I didn't even realize there was a V80 version with Fuhua white Alps clone switches, in addition to the V80 MTS models. I have those switches in my Filco Zero and I like them a lot.If all you want is an Alps TKL, try to snag a used Filco Zero. Rock solid chassis, should be easy enough to swap out switches, becomes programmable with a Pegasus Hoof, and it's compatible with the Aluminum TKL case tops for sale on mechanicalkeyboards.com.
The V80 with a Hasu to Hasu converter might be a viable option too.
I would love for someone with a V80 to crack it open and get a look at the controller. Since the board is made by Costar, could it be compatible with the existing replacement controllers?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:40:08
Very much so. I just looked into it, and I didn't even realize there was a V80 version with Fuhua white Alps clone switches, in addition to the V80 MTS models. I have those switches in my Filco Zero and I like them a lot.If all you want is an Alps TKL, try to snag a used Filco Zero. Rock solid chassis, should be easy enough to swap out switches, becomes programmable with a Pegasus Hoof, and it's compatible with the Aluminum TKL case tops for sale on mechanicalkeyboards.com.
The V80 with a Hasu to Hasu converter might be a viable option too.
I would love for someone with a V80 to crack it open and get a look at the controller. Since the board is made by Costar, could it be compatible with the existing replacement controllers?
I believe itzmeluigi has checked this out and found that they are not. KBP says that they will look into adding a more traditional controller as is found on the Filco Zero itself. He said that V80MTS is manufactured in the same factory as the Zero was, which is super intriguing. They are very similar.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:56:47
Also the Filco Zero does fit in the Vortex TKL Alu case, but the plate needs to be sanded 0.5mm to fit, and the Vortex case has clearance issues when using a custom controller, depending on what controller your using you might have to cut away at some of the aluminum near the controller area. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=212 Its out of stock now though.
The TEX TKL Alu cases that mk.com will receive soon should have all of the issues mentioned above fixed and has much better design that will make any keyboard also have a removable cable which is really nice. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=280
Post by: njbair on Fri, 19 February 2016, 18:07:29
Yup KBP told me that the V80 controller is not removable, they said they would look into it, but that would probably be a while.That's a nice case. Looks like it comes in black, red, and dark gray. I would probably get the dark gray. I love the removable USB option as well.
Also the Filco Zero does fit in the Vortex TKL Alu case, but the plate needs to be sanded 0.5mm to fit, and the Vortex case has clearance issues when using a custom controller, depending on what controller your using you might have to cut away at some of the aluminum near the controller area. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=212 Its out of stock now though.
The TEX TKL Alu cases that mk.com will receive soon should have all of the issues mentioned above fixed and has much better design that will make any keyboard also have a removable cable which is really nice. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=280
Post by: Magna224 on Fri, 19 February 2016, 18:57:43
Post by: shareandenjoy on Fri, 19 February 2016, 20:09:50
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 19 February 2016, 20:21:34
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
Right Shift = Denied
This man knows his keyboard. Mad props!!
Post by: romevi on Fri, 19 February 2016, 20:29:35
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
Ow, my eyeballs.
Post by: khronokrator on Fri, 19 February 2016, 22:36:20
I don't know much about Alps at all, but I got suggested an idea over on /r/mk.
I have access to an old board with white alps, I'm not sure what it is offhand, but it's old enough that it's a 5 pin DIN cable. The problem is that it's yellowed from smoke/age and one keycap is missing and the stem of the switch is broken, the switches themselves felt pretty nice though. Someone suggested I harvest the switches and get something like the Infinity board on massdrop right now.
I thought this sounded like a fun little project, but I'm not sure about the costs since I have no soldering iron, etc. I've got a Shine 5 so this wouldn't be for my main board, it'd just be to maybe take to work or trade off/sell in the future. I mentioned it to my friend but he just asked why I'd use old switches instead of just buying new (plus if I went new, I could just go MX, so I'd have more keycap compatibility). Which is a pretty solid point, so here I am.
So what I'm wondering is would these old switches have any advantage over just buying new ones?
It really depends. Based on your description of the board, I'd imagine the switches may not be in the best condition, but if you say they still feel pretty nice, then maybe?
It also really depends on precisely what kind of white Alps are actually in the board. White Alps are probably the most common Alps switch (and the one that had the largest variety of clones), and come in a huge amount of varieties--but IMO the only ones that are really desirable from a collector's standpoint are the original SKCM White Alps, the ones which have little "pine slits" on the sides. Any other switch is likely to be simplified, if not a clone, and therefore not nearly as good, IMO. (Though I've heard the OA2 type clones feel pretty nice, I can't comment on them specifically.)
If it has simplified switches, you might as well just buy a brand new set of 150 Matias Clicky switches for about $60 and use those instead. IMO, there isn't much difference in key feel between Simplified Alps and Matias Clicky, so you might as well go with something that's guaranteed new from the factory for such a project. Or, as you said, you might as well go with Cherries since Alps aren't really made anymore and don't have an 'after-market' niche to nearly the same degree.
All of that is just IMO, of course. There's a lot of Alps experts on GH who might advise you differently.
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 20 February 2016, 00:19:53
Yup KBP told me that the V80 controller is not removable, they said they would look into it, but that would probably be a while.That's a nice case. Looks like it comes in black, red, and dark gray. I would probably get the dark gray. I love the removable USB option as well.
Also the Filco Zero does fit in the Vortex TKL Alu case, but the plate needs to be sanded 0.5mm to fit, and the Vortex case has clearance issues when using a custom controller, depending on what controller your using you might have to cut away at some of the aluminum near the controller area. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=212 Its out of stock now though.
The TEX TKL Alu cases that mk.com will receive soon should have all of the issues mentioned above fixed and has much better design that will make any keyboard also have a removable cable which is really nice. https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=280
Silver, Green, and Blue as well for the TEX. All 6 showing on incoming stock. Will have to keep this Filco Zero / V80 info in mind.
Post by: deductivemonkee on Sat, 20 February 2016, 00:40:14
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
Right Shift = Denied
This man knows his keyboard. Mad props!!
And here I am only using right shift, never left.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 20 February 2016, 07:54:19
And here I am only using right shift, never left.
I do use left but it is probably 70/30 right. It may be close to 50/50 with the alphas but almost exclusively right for the mods.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 20 February 2016, 07:58:51
And here I am only using right shift, never left.
I do use left but it is probably 70/30 right. It may be close to 50/50 with the alphas but almost exclusively right for the mods.
In high school keyboarding class, they taught us to use the Shift key on the opposite hand as the key you want to shift. I've done it this way without thinking for about 20 years.
I recently built a Planck keyboard, which only has one Shift key (left) in the default layout. I can do that, but I have to think hard about what I'm doing. Then again, I have to think hard about everything I do on a Planck at this point.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 20 February 2016, 08:01:30
Post by: romevi on Sat, 20 February 2016, 08:02:19
And here I am only using right shift, never left.
I do use left but it is probably 70/30 right. It may be close to 50/50 with the alphas but almost exclusively right for the mods.
In high school keyboarding class, they taught us to use the Shift key on the opposite hand as the key you want to shift. I've done it this way without thinking for about 20 years.
This is exactly what I do.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 20 February 2016, 08:04:00
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 20 February 2016, 10:30:48
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 20 February 2016, 10:58:35
It would drive me bonkers if I had to use only one shift
Yes, the 1-shift users are not likely to be people who regularly type proper sentences and standard text.
Post by: mastermachetier on Sat, 20 February 2016, 11:11:28
It would drive me bonkers if I had to use only one shift
Yes, the 1-shift users are not likely to be people who regularly type proper sentences and standard text.
Strange thing is I type like 90wpm using one shift. The way i do it is the left pinky hits the shift when I have to shift everything else stays on the home row. Now that I am thinking about it I really don't capitalize the letters q or z often, a occasionally and i just hit it when my left hand ring finger if I am holding shift.
Post by: deductivemonkee on Sat, 20 February 2016, 11:14:14
And here I am only using right shift, never left.
I do use left but it is probably 70/30 right. It may be close to 50/50 with the alphas but almost exclusively right for the mods.
In high school keyboarding class, they taught us to use the Shift key on the opposite hand as the key you want to shift. I've done it this way without thinking for about 20 years.
This is exactly what I do.
Yeah well I type with like 4 fingers. Bad habits hard to break.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 20 February 2016, 11:30:53
Strange thing is I type like 90wpm using one shift. The way i do it is the left pinky hits the shift when I have to shift everything else stays on the home row. Now that I am thinking about it I really don't capitalize the letters q or z often, a occasionally and i just hit it when my left hand ring finger if I am holding shift.What about capitalizing W,E,R,T? I'm just curious.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 20 February 2016, 11:51:05
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 20 February 2016, 12:36:57
so maybe if I properly typed I could do 100+
I really think that it is a matter of what you get used to. I bet my brother-in-law can do 60+ wpm using only 2 index fingers. It is crazy to watch.
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 20 February 2016, 16:05:20
Strange thing is I type like 90wpm using one shift. The way i do it is the left pinky hits the shift when I have to shift everything else stays on the home row. Now that I am thinking about it I really don't capitalize the letters q or z often, a occasionally and i just hit it when my left hand ring finger if I am holding shift.What about capitalizing W,E,R,T? I'm just curious.
The "Q" would be the weird one, I have super stretch my ring finger to press "q" while holding down left shift with pinky. W, E, R, and T are easy: just use left hand exclusively. With enough training it's pretty easy, I guess my fingers are long and skinny enough to afford doing so effortlessly. To overcompensate over-usage of left pinky I use my right thumb exclusively to hit the spacebar.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 20 February 2016, 17:15:09
Thanks! I guess it's not as cumbersome as I thought it would be. I'm an old timer who was taught the cross-shifting method too, so using a single shift sounded like it would be extra work. I guess it could even be faster when YELLING a couple of short words.Strange thing is I type like 90wpm using one shift. The way i do it is the left pinky hits the shift when I have to shift everything else stays on the home row. Now that I am thinking about it I really don't capitalize the letters q or z often, a occasionally and i just hit it when my left hand ring finger if I am holding shift.What about capitalizing W,E,R,T? I'm just curious.
The "Q" would be the weird one, I have super stretch my ring finger to press "q" while holding down left shift with pinky. W, E, R, and T are easy: just use left hand exclusively. With enough training it's pretty easy, I guess my fingers are long and skinny enough to afford doing so effortlessly. To overcompensate over-usage of left pinky I use my right thumb exclusively to hit the spacebar.
Post by: mastermachetier on Sat, 20 February 2016, 17:40:27
Strange thing is I type like 90wpm using one shift. The way i do it is the left pinky hits the shift when I have to shift everything else stays on the home row. Now that I am thinking about it I really don't capitalize the letters q or z often, a occasionally and i just hit it when my left hand ring finger if I am holding shift.What about capitalizing W,E,R,T? I'm just curious.
So I just type using the recommended fingers in all the other keys.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: mastermachetier on Sat, 20 February 2016, 17:43:12
[/quote]
The "Q" would be the weird one, I have super stretch my ring finger to press "q" while holding down left shift with pinky. W, E, R, and T are easy: just use left hand exclusively. With enough training it's pretty easy, I guess my fingers are long and skinny enough to afford doing so effortlessly. To overcompensate over-usage of left pinky I use my right thumb exclusively to hit the spacebar.
[/quote]
I also exclusively use my right thumb on the space bar!
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 21 February 2016, 15:19:03
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
And I thought the TEX Beetle was bad...
Post by: E3E on Sun, 21 February 2016, 18:16:42
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
And I thought the TEX Beetle was bad...
I think his custom is actually quite charming and personal! Good work, shareandenjoy. :)
Post by: shareandenjoy on Sun, 21 February 2016, 18:24:59
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
And I thought the TEX Beetle was bad...
I think his custom is actually quite charming and personal! Good work, shareandenjoy. :)
Thanks! I realize the layout is not for everyone, but it works for me. I simply never use the right side modifiers and always use the arrows. It was a no brainier from my perspective.
One of the cool things about this hobby is if you don't like something or want to try a different approach you can always roll your own!
Post by: njbair on Sun, 21 February 2016, 18:43:04
Exactly. What that guy doesn't realize is that nobody cares that he doesn't like your keyboard.I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
And I thought the TEX Beetle was bad...
I think his custom is actually quite charming and personal! Good work, shareandenjoy. :)
Thanks! I realize the layout is not for everyone, but it works for me. I simply never use the right side modifiers and always use the arrows. It was a no brainier from my perspective.
One of the cool things about this hobby is if you don't like something or want to try a different approach you can always roll your own!
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 22 February 2016, 07:42:42
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
I'm really digging this layout. Definitely suits my typing style. Got any pictures of the the bottom? Did you make your own PCB or handwire the switches?
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 22 February 2016, 16:16:42
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
I don't think I could function without a right shift, and that is all everyone is talking about on this board. You should get some love for the DIY aesthetics. I may have to use hardboard panels on my next project.
Post by: sean on Mon, 22 February 2016, 16:36:43
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
I don't think I could function without a right shift, and that is all everyone is talking about on this board. You should get some love for the DIY aesthetics. I may have to use hardboard panels on my next project.
It makes me wish I didn't use right shift so I can do stuff like that. As it turns out I use right shift exclusively just like shareandenjoy uses left shift exclusively :S
Post by: piemancoder on Mon, 22 February 2016, 16:38:41
Post by: mseaworthy on Mon, 22 February 2016, 16:51:15
As some of you may have done, I noticed some postings of an artisan on instagram, and asked to learn about his work. When the chance came to commission something from him, I took it.
The PCB is remarkably a DIY effort in rich terra cotta tones with reflective copper traces etched by toner-transfer paper ironed on with individual holes meticulously drilled. The Teensy is soldered directly to the PCB, and I kept the bottom convertible style to admire the workmanship. The wood frame is made from white oak and allows the switch actuation to resonate without reverberation. It’s also decidedly craftsman, hand-made, and befitting of the 30-year-old switches and caps.
The key caps are from an Apple M0116 and dyed with Dylon multipurpose dye in kingfisher blue, tangerine orange, and emerald green. I was torn between accenting the HHKB arrow cluster or my home row IJKL arrows, but the homing dots being on the old school D and K keys swayed me to focus on highlighting the home row.
Comparing this custom 60% with an HHKB is somewhat incongruent as they have such different construction, but since I want to use both boards in a rotation, it’s an interesting juxtaposition. The salmon Alps switches mounted on a metal plate are a good deal more percussive than topre switches. But the feeling of plastic on steel is a lot more crisp and offers greater auditory feedback than the topre’s plastic-on-plastic pairing. When more subtle feedback is targeted, there’s no beating an HHKB with Hypersphere’s silencing rings. They’re the clear choice when working on the phone, but when you want a rapturous racket, salmon or orange Alps get it done.
The robustness of the USB connection on this custom is great. While I’ve read the HHKB USB port may be rated for only 500 connections (no idea if that’s accurate), this connection is stress relieved by being fastened to a connector secured to the frame and cable tethered to the teensy. It will still be strong to handle my fumbling fingers if/when I get Parkinson’s and can’t manage a steady mount…doctors say all of us dudes are headed for Parkinson’s or prostrate issues if we live long enough, so might as well enjoy great keyboards along the way.
The Teensy is TMK formatted, and I’m able to preserve all my Karabiner shortcuts and more. We have momentary Fn keys bound to keys on each side of the spacebar ( `~ and \| ) and the Esc key so any chording is flexible and convenient. Also mouse keys, media keys, Apple-specific keys, and navigational keys (home, end, page up/down, scrolling) are all incorporated.
This craftsman lives in Sweden and his handle on GH is Yoe. Selfish bugger that I am, I’d prefer keeping him a secret (as if I had such magical powers) and hoard his skills, but he deserves the recognition. And ironically, it’s a strikingly Swedish characteristic to humbly shun such accolades. I’m in line to have him make a custom “Happy Alps” board (unfortunately it requires sacrificing both an M0116 and an AEK to approximate an HHKB layout), but he’s ready to start taking on a few more projects.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Post by: njbair on Mon, 22 February 2016, 17:23:16
I’d love to share a custom Alps board I just made…only I didn’t make it. I merely harvested the switches and had the good sense to let a maestro do the rest. I did choose the color way, but that’s about as significant as a fifth grader finally coloring within the lines for the first time.Awesome board. Honestly, it's just as well you chose not to withhold the builder. To anyone who's been around GH for the last year, that case and quality dye job scream Yoe.
As some of you may have done, I noticed some postings of an artisan on instagram, and asked to learn about his work. When the chance came to commission something from him, I took it.
The PCB is remarkably a DIY effort in rich terra cotta tones with reflective copper traces etched by toner-transfer paper ironed on with individual holes meticulously drilled. The Teensy is soldered directly to the PCB, and I kept the bottom convertible style to admire the workmanship. The wood frame is made from white oak and allows the switch actuation to resonate without reverberation. It’s also decidedly craftsman, hand-made, and befitting of the 30-year-old switches and caps.
The key caps are from an Apple M0116 and dyed with Dylon multipurpose dye in kingfisher blue, tangerine orange, and emerald green. I was torn between accenting the HHKB arrow cluster or my home row IJKL arrows, but the homing dots being on the old school D and K keys swayed me to focus on highlighting the home row.
Comparing this custom 60% with an HHKB is somewhat incongruent as they have such different construction, but since I want to use both boards in a rotation, it’s an interesting juxtaposition. The salmon Alps switches mounted on a metal plate are a good deal more percussive than topre switches. But the feeling of plastic on steel is a lot more crisp and offers greater auditory feedback than the topre’s plastic-on-plastic pairing. When more subtle feedback is targeted, there’s no beating an HHKB with Hypersphere’s silencing rings. They’re the clear choice when working on the phone, but when you want a rapturous racket, salmon or orange Alps get it done.
The robustness of the USB connection on this custom is great. While I’ve read the HHKB USB port may be rated for only 500 connections (no idea if that’s accurate), this connection is stress relieved by being fastened to a connector secured to the frame and cable tethered to the teensy. It will still be strong to handle my fumbling fingers if/when I get Parkinson’s and can’t manage a steady mount…doctors say all of us dudes are headed for Parkinson’s or prostrate issues if we live long enough, so might as well enjoy great keyboards along the way.
The Teensy is TMK formatted, and I’m able to preserve all my Karabiner shortcuts and more. We have momentary Fn keys bound to keys on each side of the spacebar ( `~ and \| ) and the Esc key so any chording is flexible and convenient. Also mouse keys, media keys, Apple-specific keys, and navigational keys (home, end, page up/down, scrolling) are all incorporated.
This craftsman lives in Sweden and his handle on GH is Yoe. Selfish bugger that I am, I’d prefer keeping him a secret (as if I had such magical powers) and hoard his skills, but he deserves the recognition. And ironically, it’s a strikingly Swedish characteristic to humbly shun such accolades. I’m in line to have him make a custom “Happy Alps” board (unfortunately it requires sacrificing both an M0116 and an AEK to approximate an HHKB layout), but he’s ready to start taking on a few more projects.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 22 February 2016, 17:54:52
The whole idea of making a custom PCB sounds sweet.
Is there another guide on it somewhere?
Post by: mseaworthy on Mon, 22 February 2016, 18:05:37
Is there another guide on it somewhere?
I’m sure there are numerous guides around. It’s not that “complicated” to build from scratch with a kit, but it is massively comprehensive (and creating your own PCB as Yoe has done is numerous levels above “comprehensive”). Starting out with a kit is probably the way to go. The Atreus is a kit with a lot of great instructions and all the pieces sourced in one place. The Infinity 60% kit is another. There’s a list of workshop guides on Deskthority and I’m sure there’s numerous threads here as well.
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html
Post by: shareandenjoy on Mon, 22 February 2016, 19:04:00
I made a Matais custom and have been super happy with it!
(Attachment Link)
I'm really digging this layout. Definitely suits my typing style. Got any pictures of the the bottom? Did you make your own PCB or handwire the switches?
It was handwired, I have put a little build log here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79741.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79741.0).
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 22 February 2016, 19:19:35
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-A2M4100-IIc-ROM-3-computer-in-excellent-shape-no-yellowing-/222025013571?hash=item33b1b8d943:g:XpkAAOSwG-1WwiK~
Post by: sean on Mon, 22 February 2016, 20:46:08
Thanks guys. I hope to wire this guy with all its caps into its own little board with custom PCB:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-A2M4100-IIc-ROM-3-computer-in-excellent-shape-no-yellowing-/222025013571?hash=item33b1b8d943:g:XpkAAOSwG-1WwiK~
YOU bought that? grrrrrrrr it was in my grasp! :))
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 22 February 2016, 22:02:09
When I got home turns out I had won. I was really happy. Not only can I try amber alps, but the caps are spectacular. I need to know how to keep the spacebar white though. I don't want light gray caps with a piss yellow spacebar.
But I hope you can win a different one.
Here are a few that are still possible:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Vintage-Apple-IIC-Computer-with-external-drive-and-software-/111906112017?hash=item1a0e1fc211:g:zIMAAOSwPc9Wwj3L
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-APPLE-IIC-COMPUTER-WITH-POWER-SUPPLY-3-5-EXTERNAL-DRIVE-COLLECT-VINTAGE-/272122023510?hash=item3f5bbc8e56:g:Nb4AAOSwa-dWr~Ip
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-2c-iic-Computer-Tested-and-turns-on-no-cords-/231832876944?hash=item35fa50f790:g:ArcAAOSw5IJWguHb
Keep in mind you want the ones with grayish keys and a plate that you can see. If the space between the keys is shiny like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-IIc-computer-c-no-PS-marked-case-some-yellowing-Vintage-Hardware-/181795738857?hash=item2a53ded4e9:g:dm8AAOSw3ydVnKE~ (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-IIc-computer-c-no-PS-marked-case-some-yellowing-Vintage-Hardware-/181795738857?hash=item2a53ded4e9:g:dm8AAOSw3ydVnKE~)
Then it is the older variant that does not have amber alps or even have alps compatible caps. Best of luck! :thumb:
Post by: sean on Mon, 22 February 2016, 22:12:59
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 22 February 2016, 23:08:25
The seller is in Florida, I might even get it tomorrow. I don't think any of these are gonna sell for that cheap anymore unfortunately. I kinda caught on the prices when I looked up the sold listings. I am quite surprised that I won. I thought for sure someone would go just barely above my bid and snipe it out of my hands.
Also, why are the ROM 3's so desirable?
Post by: sean on Mon, 22 February 2016, 23:10:12
Oh lol okay then :))
The seller is in Florida, I might even get it tomorrow. I don't think any of these are gonna sell for that cheap anymore unfortunately. I kinda caught on the prices when I looked up the sold listings. I am quite surprised that I won. I thought for sure someone would go just barely above my bid and snipe it out of my hands.
Also, why are the ROM 3's so desirable?
They're the ones with amber Alps.
Edit: Memory Expansion models have them too according to DT
Edit 2: Memory Expansion is ROM 3 :confused:
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 22 February 2016, 23:26:39
Grey Plate Oranges as well :)
(http://i.imgur.com/9n4FKlI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/s2YWiDd.jpg?)
(http://i.imgur.com/aH6Apb0.jpg)
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 22 February 2016, 23:33:37
Made my own thread a while back but I thought I share it here, my SGI Granite swapped with SKCM Orange and SKCL Greens. The SKCL Greens were some extras laying around from my V60 MTS Backlight project. That will be for another day though. Still need proper resistors for the backlight. Otherwise the V60 right now works besides the Windows keys.
Grey Plate Oranges as well :)
Very nice. Orange alps are always very photogenic. How are the caps on the SGI? I have never tried them before. How do they hold up to say, Dell AT101W caps?
Good luck with the greens project :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 23 February 2016, 00:02:16
Made my own thread a while back but I thought I share it here, my SGI Granite swapped with SKCM Orange and SKCL Greens. The SKCL Greens were some extras laying around from my V60 MTS Backlight project. That will be for another day though. Still need proper resistors for the backlight. Otherwise the V60 right now works besides the Windows keys.
Grey Plate Oranges as well :)
Very nice. Orange alps are always very photogenic. How are the caps on the SGI? I have never tried them before. How do they hold up to say, Dell AT101W caps?
Good luck with the greens project :)
Basically no comparison. AT101W's are thin lazered ABS that yellow quiet badly. With the SGI you get Alps Electric produced thick dye sub PBT. It really makes the SKCM Oranges pop. Early SKCM Salmon Dell AT101's are the same - made by Alps Electric not Slitek.
The Green Alps V60 has been going on for some time actually :D The keyboard works (mostly), the holes have been cut in the Greens and the LEDs have been installed and soldered in! All I need now is to install resistors, run a bit of wire to fix some lifted LED pads and im good!
I have the bolts and nuts on the way for my Model M that needs a bolt mod very badly. Basically the right half of the QWERTY section of the board is **** and loose. The V60 is on hold until then. At least ive gotten to the point where the board is functional!
Post by: E3E on Tue, 23 February 2016, 05:45:30
The Green Alps V60 has been going on for some time actually :D The keyboard works (mostly), the holes have been cut in the Greens and the LEDs have been installed and soldered in! All I need now is to install resistors, run a bit of wire to fix some lifted LED pads and im good!
(http://i.imgur.com/OZhaa1V.jpg)
Soon...
(http://i.imgur.com/IQwYt0g.jpg)
Your Alps shall shine!
Can't wait to see them light up, man. What color LEDs are you using? I LOVE Alps keyboards that are deceiving and look like they might be MX boards at first glance. Backlighting is so atypical for Alps, that such a thing contributes a ton to that "sleeper" look, imo.
With the new Infinity PCB also allowing for LEDs, a lot of backlit Alps builds are possible now, whether simply using Matias switches and soldering the LEDs on the rear of the PCB and bending them to shine through the MX switch wells, or doing what Mattr and I are doing and drilling holes in each Linear Complicated Alps housing in order to use 2x5x7mm LEDs.
For me, I went with Duck Eagle PCBs as they were the only option I thought of at the time. I had no idea the V60MTS was possible to set up for backlighting until Mattr and Itzmeluigi figured it out.
The customizability of a Duck PCB though, is a nice benefit, regardless. :)
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 23 February 2016, 06:07:38
and he said I need to contact LZ for more info
Post by: henz on Tue, 23 February 2016, 06:16:24
Man I need me an alps pcb for my lz. I don't know how to contact LZ and leeku said that he don't know who makes the plate and he don't have stock for the pcb
and he said I need to contact LZ for more info
He is here as well.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 23 February 2016, 06:18:31
Ok i'm gonna try pming him!Man I need me an alps pcb for my lz. I don't know how to contact LZ and leeku said that he don't know who makes the plate and he don't have stock for the pcb
and he said I need to contact LZ for more info
He is here as well.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 23 February 2016, 06:24:01
Ok i'm gonna try pming him!Man I need me an alps pcb for my lz. I don't know how to contact LZ and leeku said that he don't know who makes the plate and he don't have stock for the pcb
and he said I need to contact LZ for more info
He is here as well.
Good luck dude. Looking forward to hearing if you get one!
Henz, did you manage to get yourself a PCB and plate for your LZ?
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 23 February 2016, 06:25:46
E3E reply to me pm ples!Ok i'm gonna try pming him!Man I need me an alps pcb for my lz. I don't know how to contact LZ and leeku said that he don't know who makes the plate and he don't have stock for the pcb
and he said I need to contact LZ for more info
He is here as well.
Good luck dude. Looking forward to hearing if you get one!
Henz, did you manage to get yourself a PCB and plate for your LZ?
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 23 February 2016, 07:24:42
(http://cdn.overclock.net/3/3b/3b336a2d_YEQbTNE.png)
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 23 February 2016, 07:27:48
I may have bought one too many boards from Japan. Prices not including international shipping... :))so you're the one who outbid my bidding on the sharp x68kShow Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/3/3b/3b336a2d_YEQbTNE.png)
I think that you westerners are asleep and i won the bidding
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 23 February 2016, 07:30:19
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 23 February 2016, 07:31:09
I may have bought one too many boards from Japan. Prices not including international shipping... :))Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/3/3b/3b336a2d_YEQbTNE.png)
Uh....meetup again so I can play with all these? What a haul!
Made my own thread a while back but I thought I share it here, my SGI Granite swapped with SKCM Orange and SKCL Greens. The SKCL Greens were some extras laying around from my V60 MTS Backlight project. That will be for another day though. Still need proper resistors for the backlight. Otherwise the V60 right now works besides the Windows keys.
Grey Plate Oranges as well :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9n4FKlI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/s2YWiDd.jpg?)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aH6Apb0.jpg)
That's a lovely board :D
Post by: njbair on Tue, 23 February 2016, 07:32:53
I may have bought one too many boards from Japan. Prices not including international shipping... :))Google tells me that's about $850 USD. Not bad for such a large quantity. Do you plan on selling any of them?Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/3/3b/3b336a2d_YEQbTNE.png)
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 23 February 2016, 07:34:43
Google tells me that's about $850 USD. Not bad for such a large quantity. Do you plan on selling any of them?
I'll probably end up selling a large portion of it since I need to recoup some of the costs. Shipping to the US will probably end up costing me another ¥35.000 or so and I can't afford to hold onto all of them. Don't have space now and I'll have even less in a Boston apartment. :))
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 23 February 2016, 07:35:20
Which one? ;Dthat sharp x68000 with green alps
Post by: Venatorious on Tue, 23 February 2016, 08:03:09
Haha I was actually thinking about getting one setup for March sometime. Probably one of the last times I'll be available before I move to Boston for awhile. :eek:Google tells me that's about $850 USD. Not bad for such a large quantity. Do you plan on selling any of them?
I'll probably end up selling a large portion of it since I need to recoup some of the costs. Shipping to the US will probably end up costing me another ¥35.000 or so and I can't afford to hold onto all of them. Don't have space now and I'll have even less in a Boston apartment. :))
Dude I'll take some white dampened, blue and salmon alps off your hands :p
Post by: Yoe on Tue, 23 February 2016, 09:43:34
Haha I was actually thinking about getting one setup for March sometime. Probably one of the last times I'll be available before I move to Boston for awhile. :eek:Google tells me that's about $850 USD. Not bad for such a large quantity. Do you plan on selling any of them?
I'll probably end up selling a large portion of it since I need to recoup some of the costs. Shipping to the US will probably end up costing me another ¥35.000 or so and I can't afford to hold onto all of them. Don't have space now and I'll have even less in a Boston apartment. :))
Dude I'll take some white dampened, blue and salmon alps off your hands :p
I want white dampened Alps too! I'll take the leftovers, Venatorious :) Only need thirty or so of them I think... (switches, that is. not boards... )
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 23 February 2016, 11:39:56
(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Post by: romevi on Tue, 23 February 2016, 11:43:11
I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Cool, I'll take some. ;D
Post by: chyros on Tue, 23 February 2016, 13:04:32
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 23 February 2016, 13:06:33
I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Such greenery <3
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 23 February 2016, 13:37:10
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .I received the boards this way, i actually didnt take them apart. Im going to restore the boards in the picture to working order. I already have a bag full of SKCL Greens so i dont need to desolder these boards.
I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Such greenery <3
Greenery level is over 9000, i have so many of them that its impossible to use them all :))
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 23 February 2016, 13:53:42
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .I received the boards this way, i actually didnt take them apart. Im going to restore the boards in the picture to working order. I already have a bag full of SKCL Greens so i dont need to desoler these boards.I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Such greenery <3
Greenery level is over 9000, i have so many of them that its impossible to use them all :))
I can take some of those greens off your hands. You need some orange, right?
Post by: jbondeson on Tue, 23 February 2016, 13:59:54
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .I received the boards this way, i actually didnt take them apart. Im going to restore the boards in the picture to working order. I already have a bag full of SKCL Greens so i dont need to desoler these boards.I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Such greenery <3
Greenery level is over 9000, i have so many of them that its impossible to use them all :))
I can take some of those greens off your hands. You need some orange, right?
haha, That's exactly what I was thinking. WTT M0115's for Zeniths :D
Post by: harlw on Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:10:16
I’d love to share a custom Alps board I just made…only I didn’t make it. I merely harvested the switches and had the good sense to let a maestro do the rest. I did choose the color way, but that’s about as significant as a fifth grader finally coloring within the lines for the first time.
As some of you may have done, I noticed some postings of an artisan on instagram, and asked to learn about his work. When the chance came to commission something from him, I took it.
The PCB is remarkably a DIY effort in rich terra cotta tones with reflective copper traces etched by toner-transfer paper ironed on with individual holes meticulously drilled. The Teensy is soldered directly to the PCB, and I kept the bottom convertible style to admire the workmanship. The wood frame is made from white oak and allows the switch actuation to resonate without reverberation. It’s also decidedly craftsman, hand-made, and befitting of the 30-year-old switches and caps.
The key caps are from an Apple M0116 and dyed with Dylon multipurpose dye in kingfisher blue, tangerine orange, and emerald green. I was torn between accenting the HHKB arrow cluster or my home row IJKL arrows, but the homing dots being on the old school D and K keys swayed me to focus on highlighting the home row.
Comparing this custom 60% with an HHKB is somewhat incongruent as they have such different construction, but since I want to use both boards in a rotation, it’s an interesting juxtaposition. The salmon Alps switches mounted on a metal plate are a good deal more percussive than topre switches. But the feeling of plastic on steel is a lot more crisp and offers greater auditory feedback than the topre’s plastic-on-plastic pairing. When more subtle feedback is targeted, there’s no beating an HHKB with Hypersphere’s silencing rings. They’re the clear choice when working on the phone, but when you want a rapturous racket, salmon or orange Alps get it done.
The robustness of the USB connection on this custom is great. While I’ve read the HHKB USB port may be rated for only 500 connections (no idea if that’s accurate), this connection is stress relieved by being fastened to a connector secured to the frame and cable tethered to the teensy. It will still be strong to handle my fumbling fingers if/when I get Parkinson’s and can’t manage a steady mount…doctors say all of us dudes are headed for Parkinson’s or prostrate issues if we live long enough, so might as well enjoy great keyboards along the way.
The Teensy is TMK formatted, and I’m able to preserve all my Karabiner shortcuts and more. We have momentary Fn keys bound to keys on each side of the spacebar ( `~ and \| ) and the Esc key so any chording is flexible and convenient. Also mouse keys, media keys, Apple-specific keys, and navigational keys (home, end, page up/down, scrolling) are all incorporated.
This craftsman lives in Sweden and his handle on GH is Yoe. Selfish bugger that I am, I’d prefer keeping him a secret (as if I had such magical powers) and hoard his skills, but he deserves the recognition. And ironically, it’s a strikingly Swedish characteristic to humbly shun such accolades. I’m in line to have him make a custom “Happy Alps” board (unfortunately it requires sacrificing both an M0116 and an AEK to approximate an HHKB layout), but he’s ready to start taking on a few more projects.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Hey, you made the PCB and case, that's building a keyboard by my definition :D
I enjoy seeing your work on Instagram, keep it up!. Mind sharing your PCB mask?
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:19:55
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .I received the boards this way, i actually didnt take them apart. Im going to restore the boards in the picture to working order. I already have a bag full of SKCL Greens so i dont need to desoler these boards.I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Such greenery <3
Greenery level is over 9000, i have so many of them that its impossible to use them all :))
I can take some of those greens off your hands. You need some orange, right?
I have plenty of Oranges, i have three M0116's with Oranges, a bag of 60 Oranges, and a ABS M1 full of Oranges :)
Post by: romevi on Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:34:34
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .I received the boards this way, i actually didnt take them apart. Im going to restore the boards in the picture to working order. I already have a bag full of SKCL Greens so i dont need to desoler these boards.I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
Such greenery <3
Greenery level is over 9000, i have so many of them that its impossible to use them all :))
I can take some of those greens off your hands. You need some orange, right?
I have plenty of Oranges, i have three M0116's with Oranges, a bag of 60 Oranges, and a ABS M1 full of Oranges :)
I'm looking for oranges, too... :'(
Post by: Yoe on Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:48:56
I’d love to share a custom Alps board I just made…only I didn’t make it. I merely harvested the switches and had the good sense to let a maestro do the rest. I did choose the color way, but that’s about as significant as a fifth grader finally coloring within the lines for the first time.
As some of you may have done, I noticed some postings of an artisan on instagram, and asked to learn about his work. When the chance came to commission something from him, I took it.
The PCB is remarkably a DIY effort in rich terra cotta tones with reflective copper traces etched by toner-transfer paper ironed on with individual holes meticulously drilled. The Teensy is soldered directly to the PCB, and I kept the bottom convertible style to admire the workmanship. The wood frame is made from white oak and allows the switch actuation to resonate without reverberation. It’s also decidedly craftsman, hand-made, and befitting of the 30-year-old switches and caps.
The key caps are from an Apple M0116 and dyed with Dylon multipurpose dye in kingfisher blue, tangerine orange, and emerald green. I was torn between accenting the HHKB arrow cluster or my home row IJKL arrows, but the homing dots being on the old school D and K keys swayed me to focus on highlighting the home row.
Comparing this custom 60% with an HHKB is somewhat incongruent as they have such different construction, but since I want to use both boards in a rotation, it’s an interesting juxtaposition. The salmon Alps switches mounted on a metal plate are a good deal more percussive than topre switches. But the feeling of plastic on steel is a lot more crisp and offers greater auditory feedback than the topre’s plastic-on-plastic pairing. When more subtle feedback is targeted, there’s no beating an HHKB with Hypersphere’s silencing rings. They’re the clear choice when working on the phone, but when you want a rapturous racket, salmon or orange Alps get it done.
The robustness of the USB connection on this custom is great. While I’ve read the HHKB USB port may be rated for only 500 connections (no idea if that’s accurate), this connection is stress relieved by being fastened to a connector secured to the frame and cable tethered to the teensy. It will still be strong to handle my fumbling fingers if/when I get Parkinson’s and can’t manage a steady mount…doctors say all of us dudes are headed for Parkinson’s or prostrate issues if we live long enough, so might as well enjoy great keyboards along the way.
The Teensy is TMK formatted, and I’m able to preserve all my Karabiner shortcuts and more. We have momentary Fn keys bound to keys on each side of the spacebar ( `~ and \| ) and the Esc key so any chording is flexible and convenient. Also mouse keys, media keys, Apple-specific keys, and navigational keys (home, end, page up/down, scrolling) are all incorporated.
This craftsman lives in Sweden and his handle on GH is Yoe. Selfish bugger that I am, I’d prefer keeping him a secret (as if I had such magical powers) and hoard his skills, but he deserves the recognition. And ironically, it’s a strikingly Swedish characteristic to humbly shun such accolades. I’m in line to have him make a custom “Happy Alps” board (unfortunately it requires sacrificing both an M0116 and an AEK to approximate an HHKB layout), but he’s ready to start taking on a few more projects.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Hey, you made the PCB and case, that's building a keyboard by my definition :D
I enjoy seeing your work on Instagram, keep it up!. Mind sharing your PCB mask?
Mixing us up? ;) No worries! The pcb mask as either pdf or expresspcb file is available here, along with cads for the plate if you want to laser cut instead of dremel cutting the original plate. For M0116, go with the Y62 files.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76738.0
Thanks! And, yeh I would consider this a joint effort with seaworthy, but he keeps giving me all the credit. Don't let him! :D That color way is all his. I'm the one coloring within the lines :)
Post by: Venatorious on Tue, 23 February 2016, 15:15:07
I just hit the green Alps jackpot omg haha, thats not including Z-150 i got yesterday also.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/k2Jx1Fm.jpg)
I want some too but you love green alps more than anything so I don't think that will happen. May I ask where you got them?
Your ABS M1 is something I am interested in too. A modern fullsize alps keyboard is hard to come by.
Post by: mseaworthy on Tue, 23 February 2016, 15:23:54
Mixing us up? ;) No worries! The pcb mask as either pdf or expresspcb file is available here, along with cads for the plate if you want to laser cut instead of dremel cutting the original plate. For M0116, go with the Y62 files.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76738.0
Thanks! And, yeh I would consider this a joint effort with seaworthy, but he keeps giving me all the credit. Don't let him! :D That color way is all his. I'm the one coloring within the lines :)
Yes…we’re "pretty much" equals. We’re Chippendales. He’s Adrian. I’m Barney.
Post by: henz on Tue, 23 February 2016, 15:35:14
Ok i'm gonna try pming him!Man I need me an alps pcb for my lz. I don't know how to contact LZ and leeku said that he don't know who makes the plate and he don't have stock for the pcb
and he said I need to contact LZ for more info
He is here as well.
Good luck dude. Looking forward to hearing if you get one!
Henz, did you manage to get yourself a PCB and plate for your LZ?
Bocu is my pimp, I'm counting on him. I have a sgi board waiting to be salvaged for this :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 23 February 2016, 18:26:36
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .
Sorry Chryos :'( I traded the rest of my Zenith guts to Blaise, so maybe their is some hope for mine. I know people who simply threw away their bodies!
The Green Alps V60 has been going on for some time actually :D The keyboard works (mostly), the holes have been cut in the Greens and the LEDs have been installed and soldered in! All I need now is to install resistors, run a bit of wire to fix some lifted LED pads and im good!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/OZhaa1V.jpg)
Soon...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/IQwYt0g.jpg)
Your Alps shall shine!
Can't wait to see them light up, man. What color LEDs are you using? I LOVE Alps keyboards that are deceiving and look like they might be MX boards at first glance. Backlighting is so atypical for Alps, that such a thing contributes a ton to that "sleeper" look, imo.
With the new Infinity PCB also allowing for LEDs, a lot of backlit Alps builds are possible now, whether simply using Matias switches and soldering the LEDs on the rear of the PCB and bending them to shine through the MX switch wells, or doing what Mattr and I are doing and drilling holes in each Linear Complicated Alps housing in order to use 2x5x7mm LEDs.
For me, I went with Duck Eagle PCBs as they were the only option I thought of at the time. I had no idea the V60MTS was possible to set up for backlighting until Mattr and Itzmeluigi figured it out.
The customizability of a Duck PCB though, is a nice benefit, regardless. :)
Yep! After I bolt mod my Model M ill order the correct resistors Itzmeluigi found out from KBP and make them shine! The V60 works well enough. Win keys are for losers right! /s
I may have bought one too many boards from Japan. Prices not including international shipping... :))Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/3/3b/3b336a2d_YEQbTNE.png)
Uh....meetup again so I can play with all these? What a haul!Made my own thread a while back but I thought I share it here, my SGI Granite swapped with SKCM Orange and SKCL Greens. The SKCL Greens were some extras laying around from my V60 MTS Backlight project. That will be for another day though. Still need proper resistors for the backlight. Otherwise the V60 right now works besides the Windows keys.
Grey Plate Oranges as well :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9n4FKlI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/s2YWiDd.jpg?)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aH6Apb0.jpg)
That's a lovely board :D
The SGI Granite is such a great board, just ruined with Dampened switches. I fixed that ;D In a sense made my own OG Dell AT101 but better. You can get a Granite for half what a AT101 goes for. Now I wonder what to do with all the White Dampened I have lying around. Currently they are undampened.
Funny how 3/4 of my boards have switch swaps in them. Just have to make them perfect!
EDIT: I'm #1000, Yay!
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 23 February 2016, 18:50:07
The SGI Granite is such a great board, just ruined with Dampened switches.“Ruined” seems a bit strong. These things were meant to be used in offices, and I assume the damped switches were at least in part a competitive answer to rubber dome keyboards, whose quietness was advertised as a major feature (though the biggest major feature was surely the lower production costs). The Alps switches with rubber dampers are supposed to be a “best of both worlds” compromise.
In practice I’m also not the biggest fan though. I think Matias quiet switches do a better job than Alps quiet (“cream”) switches.
Quote
You can get a Granite for half what a AT101 goes for.That’s because the Dell AT101 is overpriced, bid up by folks who care about the Dell logo.
The SGI AT101s also seem cheaper recently than they were a year or two ago. Not sure why.
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 23 February 2016, 18:52:22
I think its because people doesn't like the caps legend? But I personally really likes the caps legend!QuoteYou can get a Granite for half what a AT101 goes for.That’s because the Dell AT101 is overpriced, bid up by folks who care about the Dell logo.
The SGI AT101s also seem cheaper recently than they were a year or two ago. Not sure why.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 23 February 2016, 18:55:13
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .
Sorry Chryos :'( I traded the rest of my Zenith guts to Blaise, so maybe their is some hope for mine. I know people who simply threw away their bodies!
I bought your Zenith Z-150 from Blaise, im going restore it and convert it to USB :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 23 February 2016, 20:13:25
The SGI Granite is such a great board, just ruined with Dampened switches.“Ruined” seems a bit strong. These things were meant to be used in offices, and I assume the damped switches were at least in part a competitive answer to rubber dome keyboards, whose quietness was advertised as a major feature (though the biggest major feature was surely the lower production costs). The Alps switches with rubber dampers are supposed to be a “best of both worlds” compromise.
In practice I’m also not the biggest fan though. I think Matias quiet switches do a better job than Alps quiet (“cream”) switches.QuoteYou can get a Granite for half what a AT101 goes for.That’s because the Dell AT101 is overpriced, bid up by folks who care about the Dell logo.
The SGI AT101s also seem cheaper recently than they were a year or two ago. Not sure why.
It is a bit strong, but not a lot of people like them :-\ Some people think they feel like rubber domes, (which they don't) but the way they travel just is discouraging to type on.
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .
Sorry Chryos :'( I traded the rest of my Zenith guts to Blaise, so maybe their is some hope for mine. I know people who simply threw away their bodies!
I bought your Zenith Z-150 from Blaise, im going restore it and convert it to USB :)
Great! It is a AT, so it works with modern PC's but it was weird about the F7 key not working on USB converters. I lifted a few pads but thank **** it is much simpler than the V60 :) It was pretty clean when I got it.
Here is some pics of the original cleanup I did on it.
(http://i.imgur.com/w8SFCn7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pRiCcXj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/v63yUO9.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 23 February 2016, 20:15:04
It is a bit strong, but not a lot of people like themThe Apple Extended Keyboard II, with quiet switches, has a huge following still, 20+ years after production.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 23 February 2016, 21:20:38
It is a bit strong, but not a lot of people like themThe Apple Extended Keyboard II, with quiet switches, has a huge following still, 20+ years after production.
Great example of people who do like them. Im not saying nobody likes them, or I hate them. I just dont prefer them. Its more of the board than the switches I think, used to have one. It could also come with Salmons.
Post by: Yoe on Wed, 24 February 2016, 01:16:30
Mixing us up? ;) No worries! The pcb mask as either pdf or expresspcb file is available here, along with cads for the plate if you want to laser cut instead of dremel cutting the original plate. For M0116, go with the Y62 files.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76738.0
Thanks! And, yeh I would consider this a joint effort with seaworthy, but he keeps giving me all the credit. Don't let him! :D That color way is all his. I'm the one coloring within the lines :)
Yes…we’re "pretty much" equals. We’re Chippendales. He’s Adrian. I’m Barney.
LOL! Hadn't seen that one :D I want to be Chris Farley though! It's a shame both he and Swayze died too young, but I really really miss Farley the most. He was brilliant!
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 24 February 2016, 04:02:37
Kind of in a lame spot here since I do 50/50 typing and gaming, maybe I should get an ergonomic gaming keypad for gaming and get a KBParadise V80 with the smoother and lighter Matias switches?
Post by: henz on Wed, 24 February 2016, 06:51:34
(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 24 February 2016, 06:52:41
Ill leave this here:Bruh that boards looks sexy!. WHAT SWITCHES?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
Post by: henz on Wed, 24 February 2016, 06:55:21
Ill leave this here:Bruh that boards looks sexy!. WHAT SWITCHES?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
Some Matias clickers, they sound so nice, not sure about the feel though, ill give it some more time. my colleagues does not seem to mind, these are by far the most sounding switches ive ever tried :D
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 24 February 2016, 06:56:07
ooooh nice board!Ill leave this here:Bruh that boards looks sexy!. WHAT SWITCHES?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
Some Matias clickers, they sound so nice, not sure about the feel though, ill give it some more time. my colleagues does not seem to mind, these are by far the most sounding switches ive ever tried :D
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 24 February 2016, 07:02:07
Ill leave this here:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
SHEEEUUUT
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 February 2016, 07:57:40
If you like the sound of Matiases you should try some Alps switches if you haven't ;) . They make Matias sound like embarrassing pieces of plastic ;) .Ill leave this here:Bruh that boards looks sexy!. WHAT SWITCHES?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
Some Matias clickers, they sound so nice, not sure about the feel though, ill give it some more time. my colleagues does not seem to mind, these are by far the most sounding switches ive ever tried :D
Post by: henz on Wed, 24 February 2016, 08:07:13
If you like the sound of Matiases you should try some Alps switches if you haven't ;) . They make Matias sound like embarrassing pieces of plastic ;) .Ill leave this here:Bruh that boards looks sexy!. WHAT SWITCHES?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
Some Matias clickers, they sound so nice, not sure about the feel though, ill give it some more time. my colleagues does not seem to mind, these are by far the most sounding switches ive ever tried :D
I have, got a handwired m0116, had a alps64 previously to this with cream dampened alps, which i sold, got a lil big with fake alps,also tried black alps on a an at101W. Got a sgi granite which these caps are from.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 24 February 2016, 08:24:16
They make Matias sound like embarrassing pieces of plastic .
I don't know, sometimes these Alps/Matias polemics sound like the IBM/Unicomp ones.
Yes, there are (mostly qualitative) differences, but no, they are still essentially the same thing.
And, of course - anyone who does not want to type on an embarrassing piece of plastic is using a Model F
Post by: njbair on Wed, 24 February 2016, 08:34:44
Ill leave this here:Bruh that boards looks sexy!. WHAT SWITCHES?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0izeAof.jpg)
i need gold caps as well.
Some Matias clickers, they sound so nice, not sure about the feel though, ill give it some more time. my colleagues does not seem to mind, these are by far the most sounding switches ive ever tried :D
Do give them time. Just like Simplified Alps, they are stiff and that takes some getting used to, but they also seem to "break in" a bit over time, and once that happens they are an absolute joy to type on.
And, of course - anyone who does not want to type on an embarrassing piece of plastic is using a Model F
Shots fired!
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 24 February 2016, 12:58:29
And, of course - anyone who does not want to type on an embarrassing piece of plastic is using a Model FPew pew wutchu gonna do alps and cherry users
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 24 February 2016, 13:12:28
Pew pew wutchu gonna do alps and cherry users
Alps buckling spring! Besides, switches are still metal, they just have plastic housing. :p
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 24 February 2016, 22:58:01
But the beeps. Oh god the beeps are amazing.
Post by: grav3serker on Wed, 24 February 2016, 23:28:59
As of today, I have used both Green and Yellow Linear Alps on my ZKB-2's. I've gotta say, linear switches are not my thing, but I can see the appeal. I feel like the Yellows are underrated.
But the beeps. Oh god the beeps are amazing.
Let me know if you want to get rid of the Greens! :cool:
Post by: henz on Thu, 25 February 2016, 01:32:46
As of today, I have used both Green and Yellow Linear Alps on my ZKB-2's. I've gotta say, linear switches are not my thing, but I can see the appeal. I feel like the Yellows are underrated.
But the beeps. Oh god the beeps are amazing.
im not a linear fan either.
Post by: mastermachetier on Thu, 25 February 2016, 09:12:06
Haha I was actually thinking about getting one setup for March sometime. Probably one of the last times I'll be available before I move to Boston for awhile. :eek:Google tells me that's about $850 USD. Not bad for such a large quantity. Do you plan on selling any of them?
I'll probably end up selling a large portion of it since I need to recoup some of the costs. Shipping to the US will probably end up costing me another ¥35.000 or so and I can't afford to hold onto all of them. Don't have space now and I'll have even less in a Boston apartment. :))
Hey if you end up in Boston which is where I am at we should have a Boston meetup Just saying ;)
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 26 February 2016, 02:32:54
Post by: E3E on Fri, 26 February 2016, 02:59:22
So I get the confirmation of LZ for alps plate + pcb and a RGB diffuser for LZ FE.so I'm going to make a GB for it but I don't know anything about alps stabs so he said that we need to choose either the AEK 2 Type, SGI and Dell old type, DELL new type. what is the difference in all this? and do you guys know anything about L3 ALPhaS pcb?
Essentially, you're going to want to use caps from one of those boards. You can use a set like Alpine winter though, but you need to bend custom wire, or (I think) use the Matias stabilizer wire. I am not familiar with Matias stab wire, but I've heard it's meant to work with costar caps mounted on alps plate stabs.
What caps did you plan on using with that? Anything with Cherry stab mounts will need the custom wire or Matias wire option. Otherwise, you'll need those cap sets.
Dell AT101 and SGI Granite are your standard 7u. It's really the space bars that he's talking about here, as those are more unique and tricky than anything else because of the stabilizing shafts. Some other 7u boards also came with Cherry mount stabilzers. Notably Tai Hao.
Generally speaking, as long as the stabs are the traditional alps plate mount type stab, then you will be fine everywhere else (there were also costar plate stabs on some Alps boards).
Dell new style means Dell AT101W, which has a 6.25u bottom row. Seeing all the positions on the PCB, it is indeed compatible with all of those unique bottom rows. The AEK II space bar is not the same as the AEK I space bar, but I forget what the difference is. I think the stabilizing shaft is flipped.
Can anyone clarify that bit?
Post by: henz on Fri, 26 February 2016, 03:00:45
So I get the confirmation of LZ for alps plate + pcb and a RGB diffuser for LZ FE.so I'm going to make a GB for it but I don't know anything about alps stabs so he said that we need to choose either the AEK 2 Type, SGI and Dell old type, DELL new type. what is the difference in all this? and do you guys know anything about L3 ALPhaS pcb?
Check Skype! :)
Post by: henz on Fri, 26 February 2016, 03:07:02
So I get the confirmation of LZ for alps plate + pcb and a RGB diffuser for LZ FE.so I'm going to make a GB for it but I don't know anything about alps stabs so he said that we need to choose either the AEK 2 Type, SGI and Dell old type, DELL new type. what is the difference in all this? and do you guys know anything about L3 ALPhaS pcb?
Essentially, you're going to want to use caps from one of those boards. You can use a set like Alpine winter though, but you need to bend custom wire, or (I think) use the Matias stabilizer wire. I am not familiar with Matias stab wire, but I've heard it's meant to work with costar caps mounted on alps plate stabs.
What caps did you plan on using with that? Anything with Cherry stab mounts will need the custom wire or Matias wire option. Otherwise, you'll need those cap sets.
Dell AT101 and SGI Granite are your standard 7u. It's really the space bars that he's talking about here, as those are more unique and tricky than anything else because of the stabilizing shafts. Some other 7u boards also came with Cherry mount stabilzers. Notably Tai Hao.
Generally speaking, as long as the stabs are the traditional alps plate mount type stab, then you will be fine everywhere else (there were also costar plate stabs on some Alps boards).
Dell new style means Dell AT101W, which has a 6.25u bottom row. Seeing all the positions on the PCB, it is indeed compatible with all of those unique bottom rows. The AEK II space bar is not the same as the AEK I space bar, but I forget what the difference is. I think the stabilizing shaft is flipped.
Can anyone clarify that bit?
Basically we will offer
Dell at101, Dell at101W and AEKII layouts. Youd have to choose similar to alps party.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 26 February 2016, 03:28:19
Basically we will offer
Dell at101, Dell at101W and AEKII layouts. Youd have to choose similar to alps party.
These plates won't match the mounts for the Orion v2 will they?
Post by: henz on Fri, 26 February 2016, 04:01:38
Basically we will offer
Dell at101, Dell at101W and AEKII layouts. Youd have to choose similar to alps party.
These plates won't match the mounts for the Orion v2 will they?
Only for LZ-FE for now. the orion plate has been made before so there should be some drawings somewhere, so maybe we can run it in the future.
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 26 February 2016, 14:42:43
Key caps are the original lovely PBTs dyed with Dylon multipurpose dye.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 26 February 2016, 15:48:40
Post by: E3E on Fri, 26 February 2016, 16:23:28
Finished restoring an AEK I today. To cloak Apple's boring beige, I used black matte plastidip on the case. To reduce abrasions and scuffs to the plastic finish, I applied a few coats of Turtle Wax Ice--supposedly works great for dipped cars...
Key caps are the original lovely PBTs dyed with Dylon multipurpose dye.
I love it! Looks very different and unique. Nice work! How did the dye job work out? Was it tedious? I just bought a stainless steel 3 quart pot, staineless sieves, and a digital thermometer for a project I have in mind soon.
I just hope it's not too tricky!
Post by: n__dles on Fri, 26 February 2016, 16:41:45
I've thought about doing the exact same to one of my boards. What color gray did you use on the keys? If I do it I'll definitely tape the Apple logo so that it still shows.I've got an AEKII case in decent condtion if you or anyone else wants it. Not sure if it's worth the price of shipping, I'll probably just recycle it.
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 26 February 2016, 18:09:26
Quote
I love it! Looks very different and unique. Nice work! How did the dye job work out? Was it tedious? I just bought a stainless steel 3 quart pot, staineless sieves, and a digital thermometer for a project I have in mind soon.
I just hope it's not too tricky!
The grey is iDye Poly Gun Metal.
It is pretty tedious, but most of that for me is in making all the mistakes. Originally I used small thrift store pans for dying. I know some people have no problem with this, but I kept getting splotchy results and edges that looked “burned”—even though I was stirring the entire time with a plastic cooking spoon. I started getting a little success when I switched to using a canning preserves system (mason jars suspended off the bottom of a large pot with a wire frame—like putting up fruit or using a double boiler.
I bought a candy thermometer but didn’t use it. Just keep the dye baths at or just under boiling and check a cap for the desired penetration / hue every few minutes. Heat is clearly a catalyst for dye—and even more so when in a pan verses a mason jar suspended in hot water. I’ve had four different colored dye baths going simultaneously; smarter to do just one at time. You have two time elements to contend with: 1) taking them out of the dye bath at the right time 2) scrubbing all the remaining residue of dye off once you remove them. You really have to vigorously scrub the caps (I used my hands in rubber gloves followed by a soapy toothbrush) to prevent the dye from drying unevenly …even if you are stirring the entire time.
Lighter colors like orange and yellow will take four times as long as gray, green and blue. Obviously you can’t dye from a darker color to a higher color with plastics—only the inverse.
Cool thing about Plastidip is that when you screw it up you can peel it off and start over again. Bad thing is it spits chunks when you get about 3/4 the way through the can. I found warming the cans with a blow dryer or hot water gives a much smoother spray pattern.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 26 February 2016, 18:21:34
QuoteI love it! Looks very different and unique. Nice work! How did the dye job work out? Was it tedious? I just bought a stainless steel 3 quart pot, staineless sieves, and a digital thermometer for a project I have in mind soon.
I just hope it's not too tricky!
The grey is iDye Poly Gun Metal.
It is pretty tedious, but most of that for me is in making all the mistakes. Originally I used small thrift store pans for dying. I know some people have no problem with this, but I kept getting splotchy results and edges that looked “burned”—even though I was stirring the entire time with a plastic cooking spoon. I started getting a little success when I switched to using a canning preserves system (mason jars suspended off the bottom of a large pot with a wire frame—like putting up fruit or using a double boiler.
I bought a candy thermometer but didn’t use it. Just keep the dye baths at or just under boiling and check a cap for the desired penetration / hue every few minutes. Heat is clearly a catalyst for dye—and even more so when in a pan verses a mason jar suspended in hot water. I’ve had four different colored dye baths going simultaneously; smarter to do just one at time. You have two time elements to contend with: 1) taking them out of the dye bath at the right time 2) scrubbing all the remaining residue of dye off once you remove them. You really have to vigorously scrub the caps (I used my hands in rubber gloves followed by a soapy toothbrush) to prevent the dye from drying unevenly …even if you are stirring the entire time.
Lighter colors like orange and yellow will take four times as long as gray, green and blue. Obviously you can’t dye from a darker color to a higher color with plastics—only the inverse.
Cool thing about Plastidip is that when you screw it up you can peel it off and start over again. Bad thing is it spits chunks when you get about 3/4 the way through the can. I found warming the cans with a blow dryer or hot water gives a much smoother spray pattern.
Noted. Thanks for the tips! I hope the stainless steel setup works well. I only plan on using one color, which is grey/black, so I'm grateful. I'll have to make sure and really wash the dye off and get scrubbing tools ready. I'll definitely have to practice on some junker caps before I go the whole 9 yards. I'm using RIT Dyemore, which comes in liquid form, so that should get over a lot of the hassle of ensuring the dye is properly dissolved and mixed.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 February 2016, 18:52:34
Post by: mseaworthy on Fri, 26 February 2016, 18:58:16
QuoteI'm using RIT Dyemore, which comes in liquid form, so that should get over a lot of the hassle of ensuring the dye is properly dissolved and mixed.
Some have said the formula for RIT has changed and no longer works on PBT. No idea if that's the case or not.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 26 February 2016, 19:20:43
My understanding is that liquid RIT never worked, and that powdered RIT has not worked properly since they changed the formula about 2012.
Fortunately for me, all my powdered RIT is old. I found it very forgiving - if I wanted a dark color I just boiled the ancient IBM PBT for many minutes and it was even and good. About residue - I never had any. After the dye bath, I rinsed them briefly and I was done. I may have shaken them in soapy water for a minute but probably didn't have to.
Last, I filtered my dye water to get out any particles and have re-used darker colors like red or black more than once and still gotten good results.
"They just don't make stuff like they used to."
Post by: E3E on Fri, 26 February 2016, 19:29:49
Please let us know about the liquid dye.
My understanding is that liquid RIT never worked, and that powdered RIT has not worked properly since they changed the formula about 2012.
Fortunately for me, all my powdered RIT is old. I found it very forgiving - if I wanted a dark color I just boiled the ancient IBM PBT for many minutes and it was even and good. About residue - I never had any. After the dye bath, I rinsed them briefly and I was done. I may have shaken them in soapy water for a minute but probably didn't have to.
Last, I filtered my dye water to get out any particles and have re-used darker colors like red or black more than once and still gotten good results.
"They just don't make stuff like they used to."
I know what you mean. This is RIT dyemore which IIRC, is what JDCarpe used for his AEKII caps with great effect. Essentially, it's like an answer to the changed formula of the standard RIT dye. There's even an article showing that dyemore can dye ABS if supervised properly.
https://www.ritstudio.com/2015/04/09/how-to-dye-legos-with-new-rit-dye-more/#!
The dye more name is reference to its wider range of dyeing capabilities.
Thank you for the information on your experiences with RIT. I'm definitely eager to see how this all comes out, and I will report the results as I go along. This will all be part of another extensive build log.
Good to hear about reusing the colors as well. Do you just save the dye mixture in a jar or a bottle after you're done? I was wondering about multiple dye jobs with one batch of dye.
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 26 February 2016, 20:00:05
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .
Give me about a week. I need to take pictures of my Zenith, I've been using it at work exclusively for the past week since finishing my restoration. Think you'd like it, though I wish I had a black label.
Gotta say, SKCL Greens *really* grew on me. Something about the incredibly subtle tactility and the force curve of the springs. It sometimes almost feels like the keys are being suspended by rubber bands that are being stretched, rather than a spring being compressed. The keys wobble, but I kind of like it. No lube on the sliders, just the spring to muffle the insane amount of ping. Also, the way the assembly is mounted to the top case gives it an interesting flex which works well. I kind of wish the buzzer (really it's more of a beeper) had an adjustable volume like my Model F though, but it's still fun. Alt + Esc to toggle it easily.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 26 February 2016, 20:13:51
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .
Give me about a week. I need to take pictures of my Zenith, I've been using it at work exclusively for the past week since finishing my restoration. Think you'd like it, though I wish I had a black label.
Gotta say, SKCL Greens *really* grew on me. Something about the incredibly subtle tactility and the force curve of the springs. It sometimes almost feels like the keys are being suspended by rubber bands that are being stretched, rather than a spring being compressed. The keys wobble, but I kind of like it. No lube on the sliders, just the spring to muffle the insane amount of ping. Also, the way the assembly is mounted to the top case gives it an interesting flex which works well. I kind of wish the buzzer (really it's more of a beeper) had an adjustable volume like my Model F though, but it's still fun. Alt + Esc to toggle it easily.
I've got an old housing from a Z-150 I had that was XT. It had scratchy SKCL Yellows in it. If you want the black badge, I could see about removing it and mailing it to you. It's true, they look so much nicer than the beige badges.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 26 February 2016, 20:44:02
Good to hear about reusing the colors as well. Do you just save the dye mixture in a jar or a bottle after you're done? I was wondering about multiple dye jobs with one batch of dye.
Very good to know. Please report on your success or failure.
Yes, I strained the dye water and kept it in a glass jar until I needed it again. I think that I used black 3 times and red twice, at the minimum.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 26 February 2016, 21:21:42
Very good to know. Please report on your success or failure.
Yes, I strained the dye water and kept it in a glass jar until I needed it again. I think that I used black 3 times and red twice, at the minimum.
Will do! I've got a few PBT sets I don't care much about like some Cherry thin PBT and some Apple top hat caps (Apple IIc) and some spare AEK caps. So I think I should have enough trial and error before I move onto the main event.
I found what seems to be a mint AT101 with thick PBT caps (I have an AT101, but its alphas are shined). These are what I plan on dyeing. I was also considering dyeing an IBM 5140 set, but we shall see.
This will be for the Orion v2 I'm getting in. Having a Grey/Dark Grey PBT set would be really nice, but IBM's 5140 caps are nice and bright compared to the pebble tone of the AT101 caps, so I figure they might be nice to hang onto for maybe a Piano Black and White look. I'll dye the modifiers first to see.
Good to hear about reusing dye mixtures. I have a lot of masonry jars I could funnel the left over dye into. Sounds good!
Oh, and you said in the past that you've got a custom AT101 with blue Alps and PBT caps? Where did you source those? I remember you mentioned that barely any of the AT101s you've dealt with had the thick PBT caps everyone wants. I find them on the Salmon Alps US-made boards. Were they in mint condition as well?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 27 February 2016, 00:48:32
I made my own.
I have no idea what these blue DREMEL branded things went to, but they're now DREMEL-brand Alps switch openers.
Inspired by Sandy's tool, but improved upon, I think. I noticed switches that have never been opened before are usually very stubborn and tend to stick. Need to wobble them a bit before they come loose.
This thing, with the stem added in the center, does all the dirty work for you.
These are a very flexible plastic which makes them PERFECT for this.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 27 February 2016, 06:19:56
Sorry for the ads
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 27 February 2016, 06:23:14
So, I made this today. Inspired by Sandy's switch tool opener, and having already ordered golf scoring pens, BUT too impatient to wait with these darn Neon Greens here.
I made my own.
I have no idea what these blue DREMEL branded things went to, but they're now DREMEL-brand Alps switch openers.
Inspired by Sandy's tool, but improved upon, I think. I noticed switches that have never been opened before are usually very stubborn and tend to stick. Need to wobble them a bit before they come loose.
This thing, with the stem added in the center, does all the dirty work for you.
These are a very flexible plastic which makes them PERFECT for this.
Hehe, I like that video. Nice DIY tool!
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 27 February 2016, 08:29:03
you said in the past that you've got a custom AT101 with blue Alps and PBT caps? Where did you source those?
My blue switches came from a couple of LE-2014s that I bought a couple of years ago. The AT101W actually has orange in it.
I have been through a load of AT101s and only ever found one with a set of the PBT caps in "OK" condition.
Personally, I drool at the thought of a really nice set and would never dream of defiling them if I got them.
If you have an extra set I might be willing to trade you for them.
Post by: mseaworthy on Sat, 27 February 2016, 09:16:47
Inspired by Sandy's tool, but improved upon, I think. I noticed switches that have never been opened before are usually very stubborn and tend to stick. Need to wobble them a bit before they come loose.
This thing, with the stem added in the center, does all the dirty work for you.
These are a very flexible plastic which makes them PERFECT for this.
Very cool, useful tool. Would you consider posting the dimensions of the tines and especially the stem extension?
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 27 February 2016, 09:33:27
Would you consider posting the dimensions of the tines and especially the stem extension?
And what is it and where did you find it?
Post by: Moistgun on Sat, 27 February 2016, 10:41:53
Opinions on reconstruction? I doubt i'd ever buy a converter to use it anyways.
I'd like a 60% or a TKL.
IDK how to create a teensy tkl doe.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 27 February 2016, 10:57:41
Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill? cream, so... meh.
Opinions on reconstruction? I doubt i'd ever buy a converter to use it anyways.
I'd like a 60% or a TKL.
IDK how to create a teensy tkl doe.
Do it. (but I am a keyboard butcher)
I don't recall anyone using an AEK2 for this, but way back when, there were AT101 chop jobs that were be similar.
Post by: mrbishop on Sat, 27 February 2016, 12:21:41
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79766.new#new (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79766.new#new)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 27 February 2016, 12:43:11
you said in the past that you've got a custom AT101 with blue Alps and PBT caps? Where did you source those?
My blue switches came from a couple of LE-2014s that I bought a couple of years ago. The AT101W actually has orange in it.
I have been through a load of AT101s and only ever found one with a set of the PBT caps in "OK" condition.
Personally, I drool at the thought of a really nice set and would never dream of defiling them if I got them.
If you have an extra set I might be willing to trade you for them.
Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I know what you mean. They are not easy to come by, but if everything works out, they will look very nice on the Orion v2 I have coming in. We shall see! If I do dye them, I will be sure to test the dye on lesser PBT caps before hand. I do have another set, but I'm not sure what I want to do with it right now. The alphas on that one are shined anyway though.
If you have a media/sandblaster, you could always try giving the caps their texture back. It's now just starting to become something people are documenting (on Deskthority and Reddit, I've seen), but I've always considered this myself. I just don't have a blaster.
Very cool, useful tool. Would you consider posting the dimensions of the tines and especially the stem extension?
Oh yeah, since I plan on doing a lot of switch swapping since I haven't yet come to terms with desoldering the SKCM Neon Green in my Xerox keyboards, it will be very helpful.
Sure, I'll take them now with a set of calipers.
10.88mm Outer Diameter for the tines 11mm should be fine
2.45mm width at shortest point on stem
Tapering up to 2.92mm
The taper helps guide the slider onto the stem more easily before catching on, but I don't know if it's necessary.
I have two more design ideas for this. One with some kind of retaining tabs to latch onto the bottom of the top housings. The other design is the same but with a stem extension. I'm thinking that these will be nice for any really stubborn switches.
And what is it and where did you find it?
I'm not sure what they are to be honest. I know that sounds dumb, but they came with one kit or another I had for my Dremel, but I've never used them. I don't think I'll regret using them seeing as I've had them for years without any need, hehe.
Any flexible piece of plastic should do though. I'd definitely recommend that quality over any hard material.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 27 February 2016, 18:48:04
So I refined it and increased the depth of the legs while moving the stem back just so so it could grab the slider at the right depth so that the legs would hold open the taps and allow the top housing to lift up.
My design before was shorter and sometimes the tabs would close onto the top housing slightly as the stem caught onto the switch because the legs were not long enough.
Now it's a flawless pull every time. You could do it with one hand. It takes less than 5 seconds to open a switch.
The tool on the right was the original I've made. It's not so efficient. It was directly inspired by Sandy's golf scoring pencil tool.
(http://i.imgur.com/W8feREJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xh15cf2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ERbl9Ez.jpg)
The switch top literally springs up on its own thanks to the legs holding the tabs open and the stem grabbing the slider. It's fantastic.
I don't know what material this plastic is, but an acetone test confirms that it's not ABS. It's also difficult to remove the stringy flashing marks from the dremel work I did to the plastic. It's more of an appearance thing. It won't fall into the switch at all.
I need to get more of these mysterious blue Dremel things.
The only variation that I feel I can make for more efficiency is one designed for linear Alps; due to the LED cutout, these do not operate as smoothly on linears, though they still work well.
They don't have that one shot every time awesomeness that this tool has for other switch types.
So I just need to make a tool with one end that's widened to insert into the LED recess and yet still push the tab away.
Hmm, perhaps I should crosspost this in the Making Stuff Together forum.
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 27 February 2016, 21:26:00
Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill?There were millions of AEK IIs made, and anyone who wants one can get one on ebay for $20–30 any time. Chop away.
Post by: Moistgun on Sat, 27 February 2016, 21:36:25
Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill?There were millions of AEK IIs made, and anyone who wants one can get one on ebay for $20–30 any time. Chop away.
Tis Chopped
Post by: E3E on Sat, 27 February 2016, 22:14:06
(http://i.imgur.com/tX0vGYX.jpg)
Crappier shot with some more switch types:
(http://i.imgur.com/70ZBxak.jpg)
More shots below:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/2rjlXgZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Y8lkHxN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GCiSVOB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Sq0Tyam.jpg)
If I could find out what kind of plastic this is, I could order some sheets of it and start making tools for people that would like one! :D
These are seriously amazing. I used to HATE opening Alps switches. I'd use toothpicks and it was just so tedious and the picks would eventually wear out or break, the tips would splinter...
This is just so quick and simple. I can see a lot more spring, tactile leaf/click leaf, housing, and slider experimentation with these.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 27 February 2016, 22:17:20
Finished my purposed Linear Alps switch opening tool. Had to revise it once, but now it's a one-handed one press switch opener. You can seriously open dozens of switches in seconds this way.Awesome work. I can't wait to try and make one myself.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tX0vGYX.jpg)
Crappier shot with some more switch types:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/70ZBxak.jpg)
More shots below:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/2rjlXgZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Y8lkHxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GCiSVOB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Sq0Tyam.jpg)
If I could find out what kind of plastic this is, I could order some sheets of it and start making tools for people that would like one! :D
These are seriously amazing. I used to HATE opening Alps switches. I'd use toothpicks and it was just so tedious and the picks would eventually wear out or break, the tips would splinter...
This is just so quick and simple. I can see a lot more spring, tactile leaf/click leaf, housing, and slider experimentation with these.
Somewhat unrelated, but that brown Alps click leaf, is it two-piece? I've never seen that before.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sat, 27 February 2016, 22:18:38
It was directly inspired by Sandy's golf scoring pencil tool.
Lol I knew they looked familiar. Just a ball mark repair tool :P
Post by: E3E on Sat, 27 February 2016, 22:26:13
Finished my purposed Linear Alps switch opening tool. Had to revise it once, but now it's a one-handed one press switch opener. You can seriously open dozens of switches in seconds this way.Awesome work. I can't wait to try and make one myself.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tX0vGYX.jpg)
Crappier shot with some more switch types:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/70ZBxak.jpg)
More shots below:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/2rjlXgZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Y8lkHxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GCiSVOB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Sq0Tyam.jpg)
If I could find out what kind of plastic this is, I could order some sheets of it and start making tools for people that would like one! :D
These are seriously amazing. I used to HATE opening Alps switches. I'd use toothpicks and it was just so tedious and the picks would eventually wear out or break, the tips would splinter...
This is just so quick and simple. I can see a lot more spring, tactile leaf/click leaf, housing, and slider experimentation with these.
Somewhat unrelated, but that brown Alps click leaf, is it two-piece? I've never seen that before.
Yep, it's actually highly reminiscent of the contact plates inside of Alps switches, except without any contacts (the molding is not exactly the same either), and a leaf clipped onto the top just like the contact plates.
Brown Tactile Alps actually had symmetrical top housings. If you look inside the housing, there's this sort of raised pattern on the outward facing walls. On every other switch, this is only on the side with the contact plate whereas the other side is smooth.
I tried taking apart a junked switch and salvaging its contact plate to see if I could make a "ghetto SKCM brown" this way. I took it apart and tried to put it into an orange Alps housing, but it didn't fit.
It did, however, fit just perfectly in a brown Alps top housing and felt very similar to how brown tactile Alps feels (the contact and tactile leaves are not 100% the same, they are far more pronounced on the actual tactile leaves, but they are actually very similarly shaped nonetheless).
Yep, it was a weird way to do it. The successor to brown SKCM is neon green SKCM and it has a simple tactile leaf like most other switches, but its shape is reminiscent of the brown tactile Alps leaf.
They're certainly from the same lineage. Cream tactile were probably the first more typical tactile switch before Orange and then Salmon and Black, but you can just look at the leaves in most switches, clicky or tactile, and see that the browns and neons deviate a lot further than the difference between typical clicky and tactile leaves.
WHEW that was long-winded. My bad. :)
Lol I knew they looked familiar. Just a ball mark repair tool :P
Yep, it heavily inspired me to do this. The stem idea was just a "heeeey, wait" moment when I tried out the original design, haha. "Something's missing here, what can I do to make this even more simple?"
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 28 February 2016, 00:33:36
Bent my own stabilizer for the right shift XD. Made from a paper clip and a bit of patience with needle nose pliers.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 28 February 2016, 01:14:37
Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill?There were millions of AEK IIs made, and anyone who wants one can get one on ebay for $20–30 any time. Chop away.
Not in this country, unfortunately :(
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 28 February 2016, 05:15:13
Is that your new project bro? I see in the last picture that it supposed to use blue alps right? :pShow Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/897848a4fee3e77a4da70060a7a55c3e.jpg)
Bent my own stabilizer for the right shift XD. Made from a paper clip and a bit of patience with needle nose pliers.
I have a question about alps stabilizer, Where can you buy them?
Post by: henz on Sun, 28 February 2016, 06:36:39
You should try piano wire, bends perfectly.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/897848a4fee3e77a4da70060a7a55c3e.jpg)
Bent my own stabilizer for the right shift XD. Made from a paper clip and a bit of patience with needle nose pliers.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 28 February 2016, 09:32:22
Is that your new project bro? I see in the last picture that it supposed to use blue alps right? :p
I have a question about alps stabilizer, Where can you buy them?
Yeah this is the board I'm slowly building and it's definitely Brown SKCM.
Stabilizers I have are from Matias.
You should try piano wire, bends perfectly.
Huh that's good to know. Too bad I didn't have any in hand last night.
Post by: axtran on Sun, 28 February 2016, 09:37:14
Post by: njbair on Sun, 28 February 2016, 09:49:57
Any recommended sources for piano wire? Amazon?I found some at HobbyTown USA.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 28 February 2016, 17:44:44
Any recommended sources for piano wire? Amazon?
The local mafia
Post by: E3E on Sun, 28 February 2016, 18:39:39
Any recommended sources for piano wire? Amazon?
The local mafia
^
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 28 February 2016, 21:15:55
My fingers no longer get as tired as I did before, but I'm starting to feel it more in my wrists even though I have quite good posture when typing for extended periods.
That being said, I still cannot stand them for any sort of gaming, I even prefer my $10 Logitech keyboard for that. Alo the FK-2001 is just all around flimsy, nice keycaps though.
To resolve this, I put my FK-2001 on my keyboard tray, which also puts it in a more comfortable position to type in, and I put my mouse and Keycool 87 with Kailh Reds up top for gaming purposes.
I'd like to get a PBT set eventually from somewhere, but the shine from ABS is actually not as bad on white keycaps as it is on black keycaps
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 28 February 2016, 22:26:21
My fingers no longer get as tired as I did before, but I'm starting to feel it more in my wrists even though I have quite good posture when typing for extended periods.How long is an “extended period”? You shouldn’t be feeling anything in your wrists from typing.
Maybe take a picture/video of yourself typing?
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 28 February 2016, 22:52:38
My fingers no longer get as tired as I did before, but I'm starting to feel it more in my wrists even though I have quite good posture when typing for extended periods.How long is an “extended period”? You shouldn’t be feeling anything in your wrists from typing.
Maybe take a picture/video of yourself typing?
I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.
I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 28 February 2016, 23:44:37
I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.
I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.
I finally tried SKCM White in an Acer 6011 the other day thanks to a trade I'm doing for some assembly services (along with some brown tactile Alps).
Since I've had 6 or so blue Alps boards before this, I have to say that I was spoiled. White Alps are okay. Not bad, but they just aren't as smooth as blue Alps, and that's down to the click leaf itself. It is more tactile than the blue Alps leaf, which is the main difference when it comes to feel. Blue Alps are smoother because of that.
I tried putting an SKCM white slider and click leaf into an SKCM orange housing with an orange spring and it felt very much like blues, but the click leaf was keeping it from being as smooth as blues.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 29 February 2016, 00:14:42
I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.
I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.
I finally tried SKCM White in an Acer 6011 the other day thanks to a trade I'm doing for some assembly services (along with some brown tactile Alps).
Since I've had 6 or so blue Alps boards before this, I have to say that I was spoiled. White Alps are okay. Not bad, but they just aren't as smooth as blue Alps, and that's down to the click leaf itself. It is more tactile than the blue Alps leaf, which is the main difference when it comes to feel. Blue Alps are smoother because of that.
I tried putting an SKCM white slider and click leaf into an SKCM orange housing with an orange spring and it felt very much like blues, but the click leaf was keeping it from being as smooth as blues.
Is the click leaf the same? Could you just bend the tactile leaf back so it's not as tactile?
Post by: E3E on Mon, 29 February 2016, 00:18:36
I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.
I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.
I finally tried SKCM White in an Acer 6011 the other day thanks to a trade I'm doing for some assembly services (along with some brown tactile Alps).
Since I've had 6 or so blue Alps boards before this, I have to say that I was spoiled. White Alps are okay. Not bad, but they just aren't as smooth as blue Alps, and that's down to the click leaf itself. It is more tactile than the blue Alps leaf, which is the main difference when it comes to feel. Blue Alps are smoother because of that.
I tried putting an SKCM white slider and click leaf into an SKCM orange housing with an orange spring and it felt very much like blues, but the click leaf was keeping it from being as smooth as blues.
Is the click leaf the same? Could you just bend the tactile leaf back so it's not as tactile?
I think it's magrinally different, but that small margin does affect feel. It's probably bent at a bit of a steeper angle for the whites (as well as the salmon in relation to orange).
It's possible, but you'd have to be very careful to ensure consistency.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 00:29:01
Post by: E3E on Mon, 29 February 2016, 00:42:12
Is the click leaf the same? Could you just bend the tactile leaf back so it's not as tactile?
Thanks to those switch tools making Alps switch opening fun, I didn't mind taking a white and blue apart for you to do some analysis. The difference is indeed very subtle, but it's there.
(http://i.imgur.com/BlfzkWD.jpg)
LEFT is White, RIGHT is Blue
(http://i.imgur.com/ftCh8aQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2BiW0GA.jpg)
Blue
(http://i.imgur.com/kcJO4gr.jpg)
White
If you study the silhouette of the lines made by the leaf in the final two comparisons, you can see that there is more of a curve (overall lower slope it seems too) with the blue leaf and a bit more steepness and height with white.
For consistency, if you want to try rebending white leaves, I would bend the legs of the click leaf straight out (upwards) first and then find a small round tool like a tooth pick to crimp the legs around to ensure repeatability with every leaf. That should actually work out pretty okay if you can manage!
By legs, I mean the tiny bits at the end that are bent into that L-like shape, not the entire leaf, just to clarify. :)
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 29 February 2016, 01:45:15
I have bad luck opening ALPS switches, even when I put them back together properly I keep killing the tactility and click, four are completely linear and I magically morphed one into what feels like a Topre switch.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 29 February 2016, 01:46:58
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 29 February 2016, 01:48:45
I have bad luck opening ALPS switches, even when I put them back together properly I keep killing the tactility and click,You’re not putting them back together properly, in that case. (Edit: or I suppose you could have bent the leaf out of shape while it was outside of the switch. You have to be careful with these little metal leaf springs.)
I suspect you’re either putting the slider in backwards, not getting the click leaf where it’s supposed to be, somehow got the switchplate leaf out of position, or possibly have the spring not seated on its peg.
They’re definitely easier to reassemble when desoldered from the board.
If you have them soldered down though, I find the easiest way to put soldered Alps switches back together is to put the click leaf, slider, and spring into the top housing, with the slider pushed flush with the housing, have the board held upside-down (i.e. with the open switch housing facing downward), get the other end of the spring onto the peg in the bottom housing, and then press the housing halves together. When you let your finger up the slider should spring up, and the switch should be working as usual. Be careful that the slider is facing the right direction.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 29 February 2016, 02:18:09
In the mean time, I'll just take out all of the click leafs on the numeric keys (above the alphabetical keys) and make them all linear, It's a feature!
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 09:12:24
- New old stock
- Alps SKCL Green
- Alps SKCL Cream
- Dyesub(?) PBT keycaps
- PBT Alps-mount Blanks
Post by: henz on Mon, 29 February 2016, 09:15:50
what i got so far:
acer 6311
sgi granite/iris
some dell at101
i also want some browns,clicky greens, clicky whites or clicky blues.
If my preference and keycaps could be included in 1 keyboard, id be a happy panda.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 09:47:38
As for keycaps, about the only board guaranteed to have dyesubs in a near-ANSI layout is the AEK and AEK II.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 12:03:42
Acer 6311 isn't Alps, it's Acer switch. No such thing as clicky greens. Browns are extremely hard to find, much less in an ANSI layout. Blues are also hard to find and very expensive, with very few keyboards (e.g. Leading Edge DC-3014) having an ANSI layout. Whites are very common and so would be your best bet, you could get them ANSI in boards like the Focus FK series.
As for keycaps, about the only board guaranteed to have dyesubs in a near-ANSI layout is the AEK and AEK II.
The SGI AT101s always have lovely dyesubs, unlike the Dells. Otherwise yea, if he wanted Browns or something the only way would be to switch swap a AT101 like I did.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 29 February 2016, 12:24:00
That Microterm [...]Two cream switches under the spacebar? People used to have ridiculous thumbs.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/urQjV7f.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Mon, 29 February 2016, 12:58:01
Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!Acer 6311 isn't Alps, it's Acer switch. No such thing as clicky greens. Browns are extremely hard to find, much less in an ANSI layout. Blues are also hard to find and very expensive, with very few keyboards (e.g. Leading Edge DC-3014) having an ANSI layout. Whites are very common and so would be your best bet, you could get them ANSI in boards like the Focus FK series.
As for keycaps, about the only board guaranteed to have dyesubs in a near-ANSI layout is the AEK and AEK II.
The SGI AT101s always have lovely dyesubs, unlike the Dells.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 29 February 2016, 13:04:46
Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!
Only a small number of the very very earliest ones, alas.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 13:51:24
Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!
I think he meant to imply that SGI keys are always dye sub while Dells are not always dyesub, not that one is better than another. ;)
Post by: chyros on Mon, 29 February 2016, 13:53:16
Haha yeah the Silitek-made lasered ones aren't quite as nice xD .Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!
I think he meant to imply that SGI keys are always dye sub while Dells are not always dyesub, not that one is better than another. ;)
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 29 February 2016, 15:17:18
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 18:38:45
Among Alps dyesubs, the ones on the Dell AT101 are pretty much the most mediocre. The keycaps themselves are nice though.
The legends? Their pretty standard, nothing wrong with that. The SGI's are fun.
Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!
I think he meant to imply that SGI keys are always dye sub while Dells are not always dyesub, not that one is better than another. ;)
Exactly. Both are made by Alps Electric :P
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 29 February 2016, 23:02:24
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 29 February 2016, 23:08:22
i want a keyboard with Dyesubs and a at101 layout, what options do i have?
what i got so far:
acer 6311
sgi granite/iris
some dell at101
i also want some browns,clicky greens, clicky whites or clicky blues.
If my preference and keycaps could be included in 1 keyboard, id be a happy panda.
Matias Tactile Pro is a 103-layout which is 101-layout plus an extra Fn and Windows key.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 01 March 2016, 02:31:21
Are buckling springs and White Complicated ALPS comparable at all?No.
Post by: henz on Tue, 01 March 2016, 02:36:29
i want a keyboard with Dyesubs and a at101 layout, what options do i have?
what i got so far:
acer 6311
sgi granite/iris
some dell at101
i also want some browns,clicky greens, clicky whites or clicky blues.
If my preference and keycaps could be included in 1 keyboard, id be a happy panda.
Matias Tactile Pro is a 103-layout which is 101-layout plus an extra Fn and Windows key.
ive actually thought of getting the black blanks from the matias site. but i want sexy dyesubs, i already have a set of sgi so ideally i would like to get something else, i might settle for nice northgatedoubleshots.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 01 March 2016, 03:07:18
Are buckling springs and White Complicated ALPS comparable at all?Well... what’s the frame of reference?
They’re both keyboard switches, they’re both rather loud, they both have significant tactile feedback, etc.
They’re much closer to each other than either is to a Cherry MX switch. That’s not saying much though.
You should just find one of each and try them.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 01 March 2016, 22:16:20
(http://i.imgur.com/FmfumAJ.jpg)
Bonus:
(http://i.imgur.com/eS4AvPF.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 01 March 2016, 22:41:30
A taste of what is to come :D The lights shall shine!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FmfumAJ.jpg)
Bonus:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/eS4AvPF.jpg)
Wow, keeping it classy with the old school red LED look? Sick man. You know, the Xerox boards actually have green LEDs. I wonder how many variations there were. I've mainly seen red ones.
Very nice. Can't wait to see it. Good cap choice as well for that retro look. :D Switch tester is looking mighty fine too! :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 01 March 2016, 23:47:23
A taste of what is to come :D The lights shall shine!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FmfumAJ.jpg)
Bonus:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/eS4AvPF.jpg)
Wow, keeping it classy with the old school red LED look? Sick man. You know, the Xerox boards actually have green LEDs. I wonder how many variations there were. I've mainly seen red ones.
Very nice. Can't wait to see it. Good cap choice as well for that retro look. :D Switch tester is looking mighty fine too! :thumb:
I believe there was only red and green as options. Compared to the original leds the new one defiantly look darker.
Hit the nail on the head, wanted to keep it looking classic alps plus I think a red glow goes nice with Dolch. The caps look darker irl.
The tester is good but needs a couple more switches to make it great. Particularly both those whites are dampened :p Haven't actually tried bog standard SKCM Whites.
What linear switches came with the Xerox?
Post by: E3E on Wed, 02 March 2016, 00:29:21
A taste of what is to come :D The lights shall shine!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FmfumAJ.jpg)
Bonus:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/eS4AvPF.jpg)
Wow, keeping it classy with the old school red LED look? Sick man. You know, the Xerox boards actually have green LEDs. I wonder how many variations there were. I've mainly seen red ones.
Very nice. Can't wait to see it. Good cap choice as well for that retro look. :D Switch tester is looking mighty fine too! :thumb:
I believe there was only red and green as options. Compared to the original leds the new one defiantly look darker.
Hit the nail on the head, wanted to keep it looking classic alps plus I think a red glow goes nice with Dolch. The caps look darker irl.
The tester is good but needs a couple more switches to make it great. Particularly both those whites are dampened :p Haven't actually tried bog standard SKCM Whites.
What linear switches came with the Xerox?
I would not be surprised if only red and green were available, actually. Yep, that's a n ice look man. Sounds good to me.
I might be able to spare some whites if I desolder this Acer 6011 I have, but I'm not sure ATM. After so many blue Alps boards, it was my first white SKCM, so of course I didn't think it was so spectacular. Not bad, but I'm probably just spoiled on blues.
For the Docutech boards, they came around in 1990, which is a bit past the last years of Alps SKCL Green, so the switches used are actually SKCL Yellows. Even on the later bamboo models, the yellow switch housings have slits (pine).
I think their predecessor, the look-alike 6085 keyboards probably used green SKCL for the caps (with brown SKCM on alphas). Of course the half-switches at top are Alps SKCL :)
So what's your favorite switch so far?
Post by: henz on Wed, 02 March 2016, 05:02:58
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 March 2016, 07:51:34
Post by: E3E on Wed, 02 March 2016, 09:50:54
It would be interesting if the 6085s had browns. Would be the start of some evidence that green actually succeeded brown, for which there is no clear evidence atm.
There is one! By a stroke of amazing coincidence, MAR82 found a 6085 board and it indeed had brown taciles. Let me dig up the post. This definitely lends to evidence that Brown SKCM and Neon Green SKCM are indeed related. Though with their very similar tactile leaf shape, it's hard to imagine how they could not be related.
Someone has speculated that the Neon Green switch was specially commissioned by Xerox since it has been yet to be found in any other board.
So here's MAR82's board:
I'm getting the Browns from a board that's almost identical to the board that Nubbinator has
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/xerox-with-tactile-green-alps-t8461.html
I better start desoldering, cleaning and lubing them up
[IMAGE BELOW]
The board also has these funky half sized switches too
[IMAGE BELOW]
(http://i.imgur.com/DGB19WH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GrV1BOb.jpg)
Additional images:
(http://i.imgur.com/68m7a9i.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cdb30nh.jpg)
One interesting difference between the Docutech and 6085 keyboard aside from switches and the graphics above the top function keys on the Docutech is that the Caps Lock key on the 6085 seems to be a doubleshot key whereas on the key on the Docutech is PBT with a clear window held in place by plastic rivets.
Post by: jbondeson on Wed, 02 March 2016, 10:04:26
And it's on both boards so it's not like this was a maintenance thing. Very strange.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 March 2016, 12:01:20
I sometimes wonder about the sanity of early Alps board manufacturers. I received two Texas Instruments boards with SKCL Greens, but randomly there are two switches with SKCM Browns. :confused:Hahahaha wat xD .
And it's on both boards so it's not like this was a maintenance thing. Very strange.
One of my Focus boards had as many as five different switches in it in random places xD . Genuine Alps, three different types of Alps clones and a Futaba lock switch. These guys must've just been using what was at hand :p .
Post by: mseaworthy on Wed, 02 March 2016, 12:18:15
Function keys are ABS double shots from a Northgate (they took color about as well as ABS caps will—not great). Spacebar and 1U Option keys are stock ABS caps. Balance of caps are from an Apple M0116 and AEK II.
I’m not ecstatic with the final colors. Wish it was easier to control dye colors, and wish I would have waited to paint the case after I saw how the caps turned out, but the feel of the caps is radically improved. Aim was to have the modifiers and numbers come out grey, but Dylon Elephant Grey often takes a blue/grey hue instead of a putty grey. Remaining colors are all from iDye Poly.
This is a great wireless mech. And now the spartan stock aesthetics of the case and caps are gone.
Post by: spanyam on Wed, 02 March 2016, 12:19:35
Post by: njbair on Wed, 02 March 2016, 12:34:06
Question regarding keycaps: What's the best way to shave keycap stems to make them easier to fit and remove from ALPS switches? Or should I not do that and just stick to wiggling (for hours)?
DO NOT wiggle your caps. You will break a stem and then you will be sad.
IME, most of the holding power on an Alps stem comes from the corners. I've found that shaving a bit of material off of two adjacent corners is all it takes to make Alps a little easier to work with. I usually shave the two rear corners, as shown below:
(http://i.imgur.com/YsWQLX6.jpg)
I use a utility knife, but an X-acto might be easier to work with if you have one handy. I've done this on entire sets of Tai Hao and SP Alps caps, and so far I haven't had any trouble with caps being too loose or anything, so I would recommend going through the effort.
Post by: jbondeson on Wed, 02 March 2016, 12:37:34
Question regarding keycaps: What's the best way to shave keycap stems to make them easier to fit and remove from ALPS switches? Or should I not do that and just stick to wiggling (for hours)?
DO NOT wiggle your caps. You will break a stem and then you will be sad.
IME, most of the holding power on an Alps stem comes from the corners. I've found that shaving a bit of material off of two adjacent corners is all it takes to make Alps a little easier to work with. I usually shave the two rear corners, as shown below:
[...]
Can confirm the njbair-method* is the way to go! I have an x-acto knife with a staight chisel end and it's super easy to trim up the corners, provided you haven't had too much coffee to drink.
*that sounds dirty... :rolleyes:
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 02 March 2016, 15:24:24
Will this $13 solder gun and a solder sucker I bought on Amazon work good enough?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 02 March 2016, 16:07:35
I'm thinking of dissecting my FK-2001 and moving the switches to TKL, but need to get some soldering equipment.
Will this $13 solder gun and a solder sucker I bought on Amazon work good enough?
You did not show a link but the answer is probably "yes"
Better equipment always makes for faster and easier work, but I have done several transplants with shabby cheap old soldering tools. Now I have marginally better but still decidedly low-end gear.
You should leave the Focus alone, those are decent enough boards. If you are going to the trouble to transplant many dozens of switches, you should make a proper project of it and take really good switches from a really bad board and put them into something worthwhile.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 02 March 2016, 16:30:57
I'm going to start calling you Fohat the Intercessor--always pleading for the survival of vintage boards.I'm thinking of dissecting my FK-2001 and moving the switches to TKL, but need to get some soldering equipment.
Will this $13 solder gun and a solder sucker I bought on Amazon work good enough?
You did not show a link but the answer is probably "yes"
Better equipment always makes for faster and easier work, but I have done several transplants with shabby cheap old soldering tools. Now I have marginally better but still decidedly low-end gear.
You should leave the Focus alone, those are decent enough boards. If you are going to the trouble to transplant many dozens of switches, you should make a proper project of it and take really good switches from a really bad board and put them into something worthwhile.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 02 March 2016, 17:28:26
I'm going to start calling you Fohat the Intercessor--always pleading for the survival of vintage boards.I'm thinking of dissecting my FK-2001 and moving the switches to TKL, but need to get some soldering equipment.
Will this $13 solder gun and a solder sucker I bought on Amazon work good enough?
You did not show a link but the answer is probably "yes"
Better equipment always makes for faster and easier work, but I have done several transplants with shabby cheap old soldering tools. Now I have marginally better but still decidedly low-end gear.
You should leave the Focus alone, those are decent enough boards. If you are going to the trouble to transplant many dozens of switches, you should make a proper project of it and take really good switches from a really bad board and put them into something worthwhile.
I think that would be Chryos
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 March 2016, 17:46:10
Yes, I think that would probably be me :p . And ripping up a 2001 is heresy! :pI'm going to start calling you Fohat the Intercessor--always pleading for the survival of vintage boards.I'm thinking of dissecting my FK-2001 and moving the switches to TKL, but need to get some soldering equipment.
Will this $13 solder gun and a solder sucker I bought on Amazon work good enough?
You did not show a link but the answer is probably "yes"
Better equipment always makes for faster and easier work, but I have done several transplants with shabby cheap old soldering tools. Now I have marginally better but still decidedly low-end gear.
You should leave the Focus alone, those are decent enough boards. If you are going to the trouble to transplant many dozens of switches, you should make a proper project of it and take really good switches from a really bad board and put them into something worthwhile.
I think that would be Chryos
Post by: jbondeson on Wed, 02 March 2016, 17:54:08
Yes, I think that would probably be me :p . And ripping up a 2001 is heresy! :pI'm going to start calling you Fohat the Intercessor--always pleading for the survival of vintage boards.I'm thinking of dissecting my FK-2001 and moving the switches to TKL, but need to get some soldering equipment.
Will this $13 solder gun and a solder sucker I bought on Amazon work good enough?
You did not show a link but the answer is probably "yes"
Better equipment always makes for faster and easier work, but I have done several transplants with shabby cheap old soldering tools. Now I have marginally better but still decidedly low-end gear.
You should leave the Focus alone, those are decent enough boards. If you are going to the trouble to transplant many dozens of switches, you should make a proper project of it and take really good switches from a really bad board and put them into something worthwhile.
I think that would be Chryos
Chyros is the big softie.
Fohat is the eternal pragmatist.
Yoe is the retro artist.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 02 March 2016, 17:58:44
Chyros is the big softie.
Fohat is the eternal pragmatist.
Yoe is the retro artist.
So where does that leave me? :P
Post by: jbondeson on Wed, 02 March 2016, 18:05:44
Chyros is the big softie.
Fohat is the eternal pragmatist.
Yoe is the retro artist.
So where does that leave me? :P
Maker and Compulsive Buyer/Hoarder!
You tow the line, you'll strip down a board, but you've shown your soft side with those Xerox boards!
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 02 March 2016, 18:06:37
Chyros is the big softie.
Fohat is the eternal pragmatist.
Yoe is the retro artist.
The seeker of Alps
So where does that leave me? :P
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 02 March 2016, 18:19:34
Chyros is the big softie.
Fohat is the eternal pragmatist.
Yoe is the retro artist.
So where does that leave me? :P
Right in the middle, you are willing to tear apart a board for its guts and glory, yet you sometimes have sympathy.
A taste of what is to come :D The lights shall shine!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FmfumAJ.jpg)
Bonus:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/eS4AvPF.jpg)
Wow, keeping it classy with the old school red LED look? Sick man. You know, the Xerox boards actually have green LEDs. I wonder how many variations there were. I've mainly seen red ones.
Very nice. Can't wait to see it. Good cap choice as well for that retro look. :D Switch tester is looking mighty fine too! :thumb:
I believe there was only red and green as options. Compared to the original leds the new one defiantly look darker.
Hit the nail on the head, wanted to keep it looking classic alps plus I think a red glow goes nice with Dolch. The caps look darker irl.
The tester is good but needs a couple more switches to make it great. Particularly both those whites are dampened :p Haven't actually tried bog standard SKCM Whites.
What linear switches came with the Xerox?
I would not be surprised if only red and green were available, actually. Yep, that's a n ice look man. Sounds good to me.
I might be able to spare some whites if I desolder this Acer 6011 I have, but I'm not sure ATM. After so many blue Alps boards, it was my first white SKCM, so of course I didn't think it was so spectacular. Not bad, but I'm probably just spoiled on blues.
For the Docutech boards, they came around in 1990, which is a bit past the last years of Alps SKCL Green, so the switches used are actually SKCL Yellows. Even on the later bamboo models, the yellow switch housings have slits (pine).
I think their predecessor, the look-alike 6085 keyboards probably used green SKCL for the caps (with brown SKCM on alphas). Of course the half-switches at top are Alps SKCL :)
So what's your favorite switch so far?
That would be amazing if you could get a SKCM White.
Ah, SKCL Yellow makes sense. Favorite would be SKCM Blue but for budget reasons SKCM Orange is my daily. Orange is a seriously underrated switch imo. Next to the best!
My idea with the switch tester is that once I get enough switches I would send it on a tour. I think it would be a great for the community. The more interest there is in Alps the better. I mean, you are one of the very few who has tried SKCL Brown. If we (the community/people in this thread) worked together we could create the ultimate Alps switch tester. Just a thought.
It would be interesting if the 6085s had browns. Would be the start of some evidence that green actually succeeded brown, for which there is no clear evidence atm.
There is one! By a stroke of amazing coincidence, MAR82 found a 6085 board and it indeed had brown taciles. Let me dig up the post. This definitely lends to evidence that Brown SKCM and Neon Green SKCM are indeed related. Though with their very similar tactile leaf shape, it's hard to imagine how they could not be related.
Someone has speculated that the Neon Green switch was specially commissioned by Xerox since it has been yet to be found in any other board.
So here's MAR82's board:I'm getting the Browns from a board that's almost identical to the board that Nubbinator has
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/xerox-with-tactile-green-alps-t8461.html
I better start desoldering, cleaning and lubing them up
[IMAGE BELOW]
The board also has these funky half sized switches too
[IMAGE BELOW]Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DGB19WH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GrV1BOb.jpg)
Additional images:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/68m7a9i.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cdb30nh.jpg)
One interesting difference between the Docutech and 6085 keyboard aside from switches and the graphics above the top function keys on the Docutech is that the Caps Lock key on the 6085 seems to be a doubleshot key whereas on the key on the Docutech is PBT with a clear window held in place by plastic rivets.
That looks like pretty good evidence to me. SKCM Neon Green is what SKCM Black is to Salmon expect with SKCM Browns. And like SKCM Black there is a 'early' version with slits.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 March 2016, 18:41:41
That looks like pretty good evidence to me. SKCM Neon Green is what SKCM Black is to Salmon expect with SKCM Browns. And like SKCM Black there is a 'early' version with slits.Yeah, not really :p . But it's a tiny, tiny start :p .
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 02 March 2016, 19:04:25
That looks like pretty good evidence to me. SKCM Neon Green is what SKCM Black is to Salmon expect with SKCM Browns. And like SKCM Black there is a 'early' version with slits.The earliest tactile green switches date from the salmon-slider era. Brown switches are earlier, from the blue/orange/green “tall switchplate” era.
I think you’re right though that they are the same concept.
Practically, however, there is a much larger difference between brown and green tactile switches than there is between orange/salmon/black switches. The brown switches are significantly stiffer.
Overall the timeline goes roughly like:
green
green – blue – ivory
green – blue – orange – brown
yellow – white – salmon – green
yellow – white – black – green – cream (all with slits)
yellow – white – black – green – white (no slits)
I’m leaving brown/cream/gray linear, amber clicky, and gray/cream locking switches out of the list, for simplicity.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 02 March 2016, 19:12:30
Right in the middle, you are willing to tear apart a board for its guts and glory, yet you sometimes have sympathy.
I guess this is sort of true. I am rather ruthless to some keyboards while very sympathetic toward others, like most blue Alps boards and the Xeroxes. I also spare the AT101 because I find it to be a very nice board despite it boring me. :))
My Monterey K101 103 (as it says on the label) is the closest 101 Alps board that I feel like I could desolder, though I still wouldn't want to. It's just my least favorite.
That would be amazing if you could get a SKCM White.
Ah, SKCL Yellow makes sense. Favorite would be SKCM Blue but for budget reasons SKCM Orange is my daily. Orange is a seriously underrated switch imo. Next to the best!
My idea with the switch tester is that once I get enough switches I would send it on a tour. I think it would be a great for the community. The more interest their is in Alps the better. I mean, you are one of the very few who has tried SKCL Brown. If we (the community/people in this thread) worked together we could create the ultimate Alps switch tester. Just a thought.
I'd have to desolder the Acer 6011 I have. I'm not sure if I'd want to. On the other hand, I could just swap housings with a Salmon or something. We'll see. I'm not sure at this point, haha.
Yeah, SKCL Yellow indeed. My favorite is SKCM Blue, SKCM Neon Green, and SKCL Green in each respective category, that's for sure. Barring Neons, I'd pick SKCM Orange as my favorite tactile. Orange is very similar to feel, imo, to blue Alps, which makes it pretty amazing.
Yeah, I hear you on the switch tester bit, that's true. Yeah, SKCL browns and SKCM Neons are really really hard to find. Brown SKCL is just a random shot. Texas Instruments Low Profile boards have them, but they can also have SKCM Brown. I think they started with SKCL Brown though. Then there's a Packard Bell 84 key that seemed more common in Japan. SKCL Browns had a limited production that began AFTER SKCL Green but ended before production for SKCL Green ended. It's really strange. I guess they just wanted to test an alternative weight but it was likely unpopular compared to SKCL Green.
That looks like pretty good evidence to me. SKCM Neon Green is what SKCM Black is to Salmon expect with SKCM Browns. And like SKCM Black there is a 'early' version with slits.
Yeah, I really cannot see how they aren't related. If the SKCM Brown debuted in 1985 with the 6085, then I would not doubt if Xerox had a hand in it then as well, or maybe they just had such positive feedback toward it, that they asked Alps to make an equivalent or something as Alps began moving to short contact plates and more simple one-piece leaf springs. Who knows.
(http://i.imgur.com/dfTdAy0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QuTpZdV.jpg)
Seeing these, how could they not be related? No other tactile or click leaf for that matter, looks like these.
Notice the weird grey paint on the brown tactile leaf? Strange.
I think you’re right though that they are the same concept.
Practically, however, there is a much larger difference between brown and green tactile switches than there is between orange/salmon/black switches. The brown switches are significantly stiffer.
I don't find much of a difference between pine SKCM Neon Greens and SKCM Brown. Brown ARE stiffer, but it is similar to how SKCM Salmon are stiffer than Orange, though a little ironic since they moved into a lighter switch. Most other switch relations are the other way around.
The thick plastic part of that SKCM Brown leaf is obviously a big reason why it feels so rigid. SKCM Neon Greens are a simplified and much more practical design.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 02 March 2016, 19:17:19
The thick plastic part of that SKCM Brown leaf is obviously a big reason why it feels so rigid. SKCM Neon Greens are a simplified and much more practical design.Nah, it’s not the plastic. The difference is that the brown leaf is a stiffer piece of metal. It’s been a while since I opened one, I can’t remember if the material seems different, or if it’s just thicker.
IIRC the spring is also pretty stiff, but I tried swapping in a lighter spring and it didn’t make as much difference as I hoped.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 02 March 2016, 19:20:34
Nah, it’s not the plastic. The difference is that the brown leaf is a stiffer piece of metal. It’s been a while since I opened one, I can’t remember if the material seems different, or if it’s just thicker.
IIRC the spring is also pretty stiff, but I tried swapping in a lighter spring and it didn’t make as much difference as I hoped.
You're right, it does look thicker. Yeah, the spring weighting is actually not too far off from Alps SKCL Brown, I noticed. It's something I thought when I first tried tactile browns because I was not used to their strange rounded tactility; they almost felt linear to me.
It feels very smooth if you press a switch gently, but bottoming out on those switches makes the typing experience feel like a rocky road.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 02 March 2016, 20:30:35
Post by: njbair on Wed, 02 March 2016, 20:35:41
Could I fix the switches that don't click with internals from Matias switches? (complicated whites)No. Matias switch insides are more like SKBM (simplified) Alps. Not sure if they're directly interchangeable with SKBM or not, but they are definitely not compatible with SKCM/SKCL switches. Even the upper housings are different on the inside.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 02 March 2016, 20:39:55
i want a keyboard with Dyesubs and a at101 layout, what options do i have?
what i got so far:
acer 6311
sgi granite/iris
some dell at101
i also want some browns,clicky greens, clicky whites or clicky blues.
If my preference and keycaps could be included in 1 keyboard, id be a happy panda.
Some of my favorite Alps compatible caps came from an Acer 6311. Don't count it out.
Are buckling springs and White Complicated ALPS comparable at all?Nah. BS imo is the best click switch hands down and I adore my Blue Alps
A taste of what is to come :D The lights shall shine!Wow those LEDs look cray. Can't wait to see the whole build.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FmfumAJ.jpg)
Bonus:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/eS4AvPF.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 02 March 2016, 22:23:23
Could I fix the switches that don't click with internals from Matias switches? (complicated whites)
Like Jacobolus mentioned, you probably just reassembled the Alps switch wrong. I've done this with my first Alps board, which was blue Alps and not the cheapest thing. So I was horrified when a switch I put back together did not click.
Just make sure you have inserted the leaves properly. You didn't put any parts in backwards did you? Usually, in switches that say ALPS on the top housing, the ALPS stamp goes on the side opposite of the contacts. There's also round mold markings that go on the side that the contacts are on.
If you look on the inside of the switch, there one side of the top housing that is smooth and flat--this is where the click or tactile leaf goes. There is another side which has a grid-like pattern; this is where the contacts go. Please make sure you simply did not reassemble the switches incorrectly before you try and jump to something drastic, haha. If all you did was take them apart and then they stopped clicking, then I 90% guarantee that you just made a misstep in the reassembly.
Since I don't like holding a 4-5 lb keyboard above my face when I'm reassembling switches, I usually hold them perpendicular to the table, like sideways, which usually is enough to align the top housing with the bottom and reassemble the switch with all the internals lining up properly.
Post by: spanyam on Thu, 03 March 2016, 00:29:09
Question regarding keycaps: What's the best way to shave keycap stems to make them easier to fit and remove from ALPS switches? Or should I not do that and just stick to wiggling (for hours)?
DO NOT wiggle your caps. You will break a stem and then you will be sad.
IME, most of the holding power on an Alps stem comes from the corners. I've found that shaving a bit of material off of two adjacent corners is all it takes to make Alps a little easier to work with. I usually shave the two rear corners, as shown below:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YsWQLX6.jpg)
I use a utility knife, but an X-acto might be easier to work with if you have one handy. I've done this on entire sets of Tai Hao and SP Alps caps, and so far I haven't had any trouble with caps being too loose or anything, so I would recommend going through the effort.
Okay that sounds perfect :)
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 03 March 2016, 00:31:11
Could I fix the switches that don't click with internals from Matias switches? (complicated whites)No. Matias switch insides are more like SKBM (simplified) Alps. Not sure if they're directly interchangeable with SKBM or not, but they are definitely not compatible with SKCM/SKCL switches. Even the upper housings are different on the inside.
Yes, you can use a click leaf from a Matias clicky switch in a complicated white Alps switch. It’s not quite identical, but it will work.
You can’t however use the click leaf from a white Alps switch in a Matias switch. It won’t fit.
Quote
I have bad luck opening ALPS switches, even when I put them back together properly I keep killing the tactility and click, four are completely linear and I magically morphed one into what feels like a Topre switch.This is almost certainly just a case of improper reassembly. If you take the switches back apart you can very likely get them back to normal by putting them back together the way they were originally, instead of whatever weird way they’re currently assembled.
I doubt you need to poach parts from Matias switches to fix them.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 03 March 2016, 01:55:54
This is becuase my cat pulled the cable and the entire keyboard fell with some of the switches opened.
I took apart a healthy switch and swappd the click leaf with one of the linear ones, it seemed to fix it, I must have been damaging the click leaves somehow.
I just need some replacement click leafs and springs, are there any really crappy cheap boards that use complicated alps?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 03 March 2016, 03:32:49
This is becuase my cat pulled the cable and the entire keyboard fell with some of the switches opened.Okay, fair enough...
Quote
I just need some replacement click leafs and springs, are there any really crappy cheap boards that use complicated alps?There are usually a few white Alps boards on ebay in the $15–20 range.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 03 March 2016, 06:04:13
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/99f2ba29698563f5f1e8fd15f2202724.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/649674861950f9219ea8cd5f52c89f14.jpg)
Post by: njbair on Thu, 03 March 2016, 06:58:21
That's awesome. Are those holes just for machine setup or do they serve a purpose on the tool?Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/60afeb45c494f7341bb8f02388f534bc.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/99f2ba29698563f5f1e8fd15f2202724.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/649674861950f9219ea8cd5f52c89f14.jpg)
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 03 March 2016, 06:59:54
Just for holding the part during machining. But they could be used for a string to hang it or something.That's awesome. Are those holes just for machine setup or do they serve a purpose on the tool?Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/60afeb45c494f7341bb8f02388f534bc.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/99f2ba29698563f5f1e8fd15f2202724.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160303/649674861950f9219ea8cd5f52c89f14.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 March 2016, 07:58:43
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 03 March 2016, 08:01:56
**** me, that looks good. Do they work well and how did you make it?
not trying to detour the thread but i have a build log in my signature.
however to answer the question. yes they work. :D I own a small hobby CNC, i designed and machined them. i am making 5 in this batch and they will be sold with a percentage going to GH. i also have acrylic ones.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 March 2016, 08:57:10
I'd definitely be in for one, preferably acrylic :D .**** me, that looks good. Do they work well and how did you make it?
not trying to detour the thread but i have a build log in my signature.
however to answer the question. yes they work. :D I own a small hobby CNC, i designed and machined them. i am making 5 in this batch and they will be sold with a percentage going to GH. i also have acrylic ones.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 03 March 2016, 09:03:19
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vhPoD6fx5AI/UyGxb84h8TI/AAAAAAAABmE/M-YkyWaf5mA/s1600/IMG_2928.jpg)
Post by: jerue on Thu, 03 March 2016, 09:05:04
Just won one of these in a Japan auction. Could be linear SKCL Greens or Grays... And look at those caps. :))Show Image(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vhPoD6fx5AI/UyGxb84h8TI/AAAAAAAABmE/M-YkyWaf5mA/s1600/IMG_2928.jpg)
That looks like it belongs in Dubai.
Nice get, and yes those caps...wow
Post by: E3E on Thu, 03 March 2016, 09:07:08
Just won one of these in a Japan auction. Could be linear SKCL Greens or Grays... And look at those caps. :))Show Image(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vhPoD6fx5AI/UyGxb84h8TI/AAAAAAAABmE/M-YkyWaf5mA/s1600/IMG_2928.jpg)
The Japanese loved their linears!
Is this even a real keyboard? It looks like it could be a lapel pin. :confused:
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Thu, 03 March 2016, 09:07:14
Post by: E3E on Thu, 03 March 2016, 09:08:06
Just won one of these in a Japan auction. Could be linear SKCL Greens or Grays... And look at those caps. :))Show Image(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vhPoD6fx5AI/UyGxb84h8TI/AAAAAAAABmE/M-YkyWaf5mA/s1600/IMG_2928.jpg)
The Japanese loved their linears!
Is this even a real keyboard? It looks like it could be a lapel pin. :confused:
If so, then those key caps would make for a hilariously tacky custom, or just give them to henz with their gold FMJ case. It'd fit well. :P
Lol, whoops. I quoted myself instead of editing. :P
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 03 March 2016, 09:11:33
Just won one of these in a Japan auction. Could be linear SKCL Greens or Grays... And look at those caps. :))Show Image(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vhPoD6fx5AI/UyGxb84h8TI/AAAAAAAABmE/M-YkyWaf5mA/s1600/IMG_2928.jpg)
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 03 March 2016, 09:13:11
(http://i.imgur.com/zejAv7c.jpg)
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 03 March 2016, 13:02:05
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 03 March 2016, 13:07:50
i need some double shot kanji/en caps in my life
I dunno about doubleshots by I'll have a bunch of dyesub JIS/EN coming my way soon.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 03 March 2016, 13:09:31
i need some double shot kanji/en caps in my life
I dunno about doubleshots by I'll have a bunch of dyesub JIS/EN coming my way soon.
:eek:
sweet
all i have is Cherry MX boards right now. i'm kinda liking alps tho now that ive had a chance to play with them. i need to find a retailer for the switches.
where do you get your JIS/EN caps from?
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 03 March 2016, 13:22:05
:eek:
sweet
all i have is Cherry MX boards right now. i'm kinda liking alps tho now that ive had a chance to play with them. i need to find a retailer for the switches.
where do you get your JIS/EN caps from?
http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9C%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89+apple+extended&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&ei=UTF-8&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=&slider=0
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 03 March 2016, 13:52:40
:eek:
sweet
all i have is Cherry MX boards right now. i'm kinda liking alps tho now that ive had a chance to play with them. i need to find a retailer for the switches.
where do you get your JIS/EN caps from?
http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9C%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89+apple+extended&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&ei=UTF-8&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=&slider=0
awesome! thanks
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 03 March 2016, 14:09:14
Comparing to dampened cream, I am not impressed at all. Orange has a harsher landing sound than Cream, it also feels a bit wobbly as it bounces back up. The Oranges were also in pretty bad shapes compared to the Creams. I wonder if anyone else has the same experience or my Oranges are just terrible beyond repair. I also have yet to experience any Salmon, I would love to hear some thought on Salmon vs. Cream.
Post by: hoggy on Thu, 03 March 2016, 14:33:25
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 03 March 2016, 14:35:48
And thanks Hoggy!
P.S. Anyone who is interested in my incoming packages from Japan due to wanting keycaps, boards, etc., you can view it in my sig. :thumb:
Post by: sean on Thu, 03 March 2016, 15:14:36
So I finally got a chance to play with some Orange Alps today. I took everything apart, dusted, and finally lubed springs and contact points with Krytox 106.
Comparing to dampened cream, I am not impressed at all. Orange has a harsher landing sound than Cream, it also feels a bit wobbly as it bounces back up. The Oranges were also in pretty bad shapes compared to the Creams. I wonder if anyone else has the same experience or my Oranges are just terrible beyond repair. I also have yet to experience any Salmon, I would love to hear some thought on Salmon vs. Cream.
As far as I know you aren't supposed to lube the springs and you aren't supposed to use oil lube. Could that be causing your problems? I can't imagine anything worse than creams.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 03 March 2016, 15:50:40
So I finally got a chance to play with some Orange Alps today. I took everything apart, dusted, and finally lubed springs and contact points with Krytox 106.
Comparing to dampened cream, I am not impressed at all. Orange has a harsher landing sound than Cream, it also feels a bit wobbly as it bounces back up. The Oranges were also in pretty bad shapes compared to the Creams. I wonder if anyone else has the same experience or my Oranges are just terrible beyond repair. I also have yet to experience any Salmon, I would love to hear some thought on Salmon vs. Cream.
As far as I know you aren't supposed to lube the springs and you aren't supposed to use oil lube. Could that be causing your problems? I can't imagine anything worse than creams.
Agree with this. My SKCM Oranges aren't like that at all.
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 03 March 2016, 17:52:47
Post by: sean on Thu, 03 March 2016, 18:23:45
So after poking around a bit more I found that my Oranges were so terrible in condition that my initial cleaning wasn't good enough. About 60% of them were inconsistent and sandy when press. The good ones are definitely better than Cream. I am currently soaking the housings in water. For the metal contacts and springs I will brush them with isopropyl alcohol. Hopefully that will be good enough to restore these Orange switches to their original glory.
You might want to soak the sliders too and apply some dry lube to them. Good luck on the restoration!
Post by: E3E on Thu, 03 March 2016, 18:57:02
I would definitely try using a dry film lube on the sliders if you strip the switches using isopropyl alcohol. Nubbinator suggests molybdenum disulfide powder, but to be honest, something that goes on wet but leaves a dry film behind is likely more effective.
I've never had the displeasure of using switches that were super unpleasantly scratchy. The closest were some SKCL yellows from a Z-150. I might not be as sensitive to scratchiness as some people are (I am, on the other hand, very sensitive to spring ping, which I dislike to the nth degree), but even on perfectly good NOS switches I've had, you can hear friction if you place the switch right next to your ear.
To be honest though, this sound is likely from the spring and not the slider.
Good luck with the SKCM Orange switches. They are one of the best tactile Alps switch types.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 03 March 2016, 22:13:58
So after poking around a bit more I found that my Oranges were so terrible in condition that my initial cleaning wasn't good enough. About 60% of them were inconsistent and sandy when press.
The problem is dust/grit stuck between the slider and the top housing. If the dust was there while the keyboard sat unused, then you might be able to fix it by getting the dust all back out. Start by blasting compressed air into the top housing, before getting anything wet. After that, the best tool is probably an ultrasonic cleaner, but you could maybe get a reasonable improvement with a q-tip (maybe soaked in alcohol?).
If the keyboard was used much while being full of grit, then there will be physical abrasion to the plastic, and I don’t think there’s too much you can do. I had some scratchy Alps switches that I couldn’t figure out any way to fix.
* * *
It’s much easier to just find keyswitches which are in good condition to begin with.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 03 March 2016, 22:55:49
So after poking around a bit more I found that my Oranges were so terrible in condition that my initial cleaning wasn't good enough. About 60% of them were inconsistent and sandy when press.
The problem is dust/grit stuck between the slider and the top housing. If the dust was there while the keyboard sat unused, then you might be able to fix it by getting the dust all back out. Start by blasting compressed air into the top housing, before getting anything wet. After that, the best tool is probably an ultrasonic cleaner, but you could maybe get a reasonable improvement with a q-tip (maybe soaked in alcohol?).
If the keyboard was used much while being full of grit, then there will be physical abrasion to the plastic, and I don’t think there’s too much you can do. I had some scratchy Alps switches that I couldn’t figure out any way to fix.
* * *
It’s much easier to just find keyswitches which are in good condition to begin with.
True. Well at least you got some good ones. Typing right now on first gen grey plate SKCM Orange and they are great. A tiny gritty, I know there is a bit of dust in them but I dont care enough to open all of them, plus risk crushing the tactile leaf putting it back together.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 06 March 2016, 03:13:14
What are some specific models of keyboards that are good for using for parts that don't usually go for much on ebay? Otherwise I'm just going to order Matias switches and use the click leafs and springs (the springs are compatible too right?)
I have to replace the springs and click leafs on nine switches, and the contact/tactile leaf is missing from two switches as well, rendering them unusable at the time. I don't believe I can salvage parts from the Matias for this.
I'm also planning to get a nice double-shot keycap set for it, nothing too flashy to ruin the classy appearance of the board (two of the keycaps vanished)
Lastly, I have to deal with the broken clamps, I used this glue (that was way stronger than I thought) to hold the bottom shell to the top shell on the bottom right corner, but I don't believe I'm going to need to open up the keyboard any time soon in the first place so this shouldn't be a huge problem.
Post by: mastermachetier on Sun, 06 March 2016, 10:12:29
In my experience, Orange > Salmon > Cream Damped. I've never tried non-damped tactile Creams but I do like linear Creams (if a bit heavy).
And thanks Hoggy!
P.S. Anyone who is interested in my incoming packages from Japan due to wanting keycaps, boards, etc., you can view it in my sig. :thumb:
I am too excited for this haul haha.
Post by: bcredbottle on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:30:11
Please use this Google order form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_-1jtE8Qo-h4jp8IVNdlYgxGpWqmTgtvAv1f-Bu3Nog/viewform).
Post by: chyros on Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:41:09
For anyone with an Alps board, would you mind just letting me know what caps are on your board so I can make a mod set?I have over 20 Alps boards and additional Alps-mount ones but I constantly rotate boards so the only one I use at least once a week is my old-logo AT101 with dyesub ABS caps, which is my office board. Most of my other Alps boards have doubleshot ABS caps, although I also have dyesub PBT, dyesub ABS, lasered ABS, rimless pad-printed ABS and rimmed pad-printed ABS.
Please use this Google order form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_-1jtE8Qo-h4jp8IVNdlYgxGpWqmTgtvAv1f-Bu3Nog/viewform).
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:34:11
(http://i.imgur.com/v5AtfQ9.png)
Post by: njbair on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:39:28
"I have no proof it works, so I just want to sit it on my desk."This is why I hate eBay.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/v5AtfQ9.png)
Post by: romevi on Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:31:35
"I have no proof it works, so I just want to sit it on my desk."Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/v5AtfQ9.png)
If you didn't get the option before, you can now set an automatic decline option.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:39:59
If you didn't get the option before, you can now set an automatic decline option.
If you persevere during the original listing, you can defeat the "entertain offers" button - but it is not easy.
Sometimes, after clicking on it 10-20 times, it will go away. Other times, you have to leave it, go fiddle with some later settings, and come back to it. As a last resort, list it, then go back to "edit" your listing and you can probably turn it off then.
It will go away, but you really have to work at it. And you should, because if you decline offers near the selling price then some ignorant buyers will be irritated to think that you are teasing them.
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:41:22
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:54:38
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 08 March 2016, 17:59:18
Post by: romevi on Tue, 08 March 2016, 18:07:13
If you didn't get the option before, you can now set an automatic decline option.
If you persevere during the original listing, you can defeat the "entertain offers" button - but it is not easy.
Sometimes, after clicking on it 10-20 times, it will go away. Other times, you have to leave it, go fiddle with some later settings, and come back to it. As a last resort, list it, then go back to "edit" your listing and you can probably turn it off then.
It will go away, but you really have to work at it. And you should, because if you decline offers near the selling price then some ignorant buyers will be irritated to think that you are teasing them.
I set automatic declines at half the BIN price. Saves me the hassle of declining it (I could ignore it, but I'd rather not).
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 08 March 2016, 19:00:06
If you persevere during the original listing, you can defeat the "entertain offers" button - but it is not easy.
Sometimes, after clicking on it 10-20 times, it will go away. Other times, you have to leave it, go fiddle with some later settings, and come back to it. As a last resort, list it, then go back to "edit" your listing and you can probably turn it off then.
It will go away, but you really have to work at it. And you should, because if you decline offers near the selling price then some ignorant buyers will be irritated to think that you are teasing them.
I usually list my items at 10-15% more than I expect to get, because I expect to get 10-15% less with a make best offer button. It makes the buyer feel like they are getting a good deal and me a good price. I don't mind people who make offers lower than I want, I'll counter with an offer near my lowest sell price. On the other hand, when you offer me $20 for a mechanical keyboard with a (cheap) keyset worth more than that, hell no am I going to entertain your haggling.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 08 March 2016, 20:55:58
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:49:48
I'm going to take all of the healthy click leafs from the numpad cluster and swap them to the numeric keys above the alphabetical keys, for consistency sake.
If I have no luck replacing the parts, I'll go all out and solder in Matias switches on the numpad area. Only problem is the top shell of the case is partially super-glued but some goof-off and a butter knife should do the trick.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 09 March 2016, 00:58:14
But the problem is I want to make an alps ergodox cause I love alps switches.
I see that falbatech.pl is offering to sell a litster style ergodox case with an alps compatible plate! so the problem is how does alps switches feels in acrylic plate? or can someone that haves a cnc or waterjet cutter make me a SS or Alu plate?
and the second problems is keycaps issues cause the only keycaps that supports alps in ergodox layout is in DSA profile which I don't like. so how many AEK 2 keyboard that I need to scrap to get a full ergodox keycaps?
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Wed, 09 March 2016, 04:12:43
So uh I've been wondering to switche from standard layout to ergodox cause my fingers are starting to hurt when using a standard layout keyboard :'
But the problem is I want to make an alps ergodox cause I love alps switches.
Why wouldn't you order an Infinity Ergodox without switches so you can use your favorite ones?
I ordered one with Matias Quiet Click and DSA blank keycaps. I don't like DSA profile but I am waiting for Matias to release their forthcoming colorful keysets so I can fully enjoy the experience.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 09 March 2016, 07:39:39
The problem is I missed the buy :'(So uh I've been wondering to switche from standard layout to ergodox cause my fingers are starting to hurt when using a standard layout keyboard :'
But the problem is I want to make an alps ergodox cause I love alps switches.
Why wouldn't you order an Infinity Ergodox without switches so you can use your favorite ones?
I ordered one with Matias Quiet Click and DSA blank keycaps. I don't like DSA profile but I am waiting for Matias to release their forthcoming colorful keysets so I can fully enjoy the experience.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 09 March 2016, 07:40:16
Edit : sorry for double post
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Wed, 09 March 2016, 10:23:52
The problem is I missed the buy :'(
I know how hard it is to be patient when it involves one of your favorite hobby. My wallet concurs.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 09 March 2016, 12:21:03
Alps bottom housing and contact leaf are changeable right?
Edit : sorry for double post
No, not all of them are. You cannot put a long contact plate into a housing meant for short contact plates like from SKCM Orange to SKCM Salmon. Vise versa, and the short plate would not be properly stabilized as the newer housings have pegs to make up for the shorter length.
Now, yes, you could, say, put a blue Alps top housing in a salmon bottom housing. No idea how that would change the feel though. I'll have to check right now. :P
Okay, so I swapped a blue Alps top housing, slider, and click leaf into a salmon bottom housing. I then scrambled it between three other blue Alps switches. I was able to pick the salmon one out.
Its click was a bit louder but the feel is otherwise the same, I'd say. Kind of makes sense, considering the space is more open in the housing of a salmon switch thanks to having a short contact plate. Actually, the switch felt a slight bit stiffer, almost like white Alps.
Now, I swapped SKCM Blue into an SKCM Orange housing and the feel was exactly the same. Contact plate length seems to certainly affect feel.
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 09 March 2016, 17:13:48
Yeah thank you E3E so I can swap SKCM Blue bottom housing to SKCM Orange right?Alps bottom housing and contact leaf are changeable right?
Edit : sorry for double post
No, not all of them are. You cannot put a long contact plate into a housing meant for short contact plates like from SKCM Orange to SKCM Salmon. Vise versa, and the short plate would not be properly stabilized as the newer housings have pegs to make up for the shorter length.
Now, yes, you could, say, put a blue Alps top housing in a salmon bottom housing. No idea how that would change the feel though. I'll have to check right now. :P
Okay, so I swapped a blue Alps top housing, slider, and click leaf into a salmon bottom housing. I then scrambled it between three other blue Alps switches. I was able to pick the salmon one out.
Its click was a bit louder but the feel is otherwise the same, I'd say. Kind of makes sense, considering the space is more open in the housing of a salmon switch thanks to having a short contact plate. Actually, the switch felt a slight bit stiffer, almost like white Alps.
Now, I swapped SKCM Blue into an SKCM Orange housing and the feel was exactly the same. Contact plate length seems to certainly affect feel.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 09 March 2016, 18:06:37
Yeah thank you E3E so I can swap SKCM Blue bottom housing to SKCM Orange right?Alps bottom housing and contact leaf are changeable right?
Edit : sorry for double post
No, not all of them are. You cannot put a long contact plate into a housing meant for short contact plates like from SKCM Orange to SKCM Salmon. Vise versa, and the short plate would not be properly stabilized as the newer housings have pegs to make up for the shorter length.
Now, yes, you could, say, put a blue Alps top housing in a salmon bottom housing. No idea how that would change the feel though. I'll have to check right now. :P
Okay, so I swapped a blue Alps top housing, slider, and click leaf into a salmon bottom housing. I then scrambled it between three other blue Alps switches. I was able to pick the salmon one out.
Its click was a bit louder but the feel is otherwise the same, I'd say. Kind of makes sense, considering the space is more open in the housing of a salmon switch thanks to having a short contact plate. Actually, the switch felt a slight bit stiffer, almost like white Alps.
Now, I swapped SKCM Blue into an SKCM Orange housing and the feel was exactly the same. Contact plate length seems to certainly affect feel.
Yes. There's no change in feel if you do that, so long as you keep the springs intact. SKCM Orange is 5g lighter than SKCM Blue, so if you want an even lighter blue, you could just swap in the slider and click leaf.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 10 March 2016, 04:44:00
I stuffed all of the empty room in the keyboard with rolls of dense paper towels, the result is that the keyboard feels a little heavier, and the typing sound is marginally more deep and sounds more "click clunk"
Post by: Webserfer on Thu, 10 March 2016, 06:05:45
(http://i.imgur.com/PdYmNsk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WCVZulK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rWBM01e.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AsByjk1.jpg)
I may of accidentally fried this board or at least the ships on it as while trying to repair the desktop its paired with I put voltage into some wires it shouldn't go and now throws up an error and doesn't respond.
So if I did kill it my question is, is it worth trying to repair? The circuit board looks like I can just cut the traces and solder to the switches. I saw some cheap keyboard controllers around.
Is it worth my time or are the switches weak, old or cheap to be worth it?
Also as a side question, has anyone heard of that pc brand? the desktop is the same brand but google says it doesn't exist, I can't find info on it anywhere.
Also signed up just to post this so hello people :D
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 10 March 2016, 07:06:32
I stuffed all of the empty room in the keyboard with rolls of dense paper towels, the result is that the keyboard feels a little heavier, and the typing sound is marginally more deep and sounds more "click clunk"
I pad all my cases. I use waffle rubber drawer liner and/or felt, often both. I lay down as many flat sheets as possible, fold rectangles to fill rectangular voids, and cut strips and roll cylinders to fit the odd-shaped spaces.
In certain cases I have even used flexible caulk to glue pieces of my EPDM in place.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 10 March 2016, 07:13:15
Also as a side question, has anyone heard of that pc brand? the desktop is the same brand but google says it doesn't exist, I can't find info on it anywhere.
PC Direct was a US "economy clone" maker in the mid-late 1980s. There were several companies that followed Michael Dell (aka PC's LTD back then) into the IBM-PC-clone market - including the delightfully-named "Famous Maker" brand:
- "Hey, I know where you can buy a famous maker PC for cheap!"
My first computer was a PC's LTD 80286 that cost just under $3K and did not include a printer. At that point the keyboard was one of the peripherals that you bought as a separate component to complete your rig.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:17:22
however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 March 2016, 17:35:38
I got the Matias switches today, just from testing the switches individually I kind of like them more than the actual alps, they feel snappier, lighter, and smoother.
however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.
How about swapping them into genuine complicated Alps housings? That'll likely eliminate the hollowness. Well, if you put them in a switch with a long switchplate like SKCM Orange. The short switch plate varieties also feel and sound a bit more hollow.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 21:38:38
I got the Matias switches today, just from testing the switches individually I kind of like them more than the actual alps, they feel snappier, lighter, and smoother.
however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.
Not in my case at least. Matias click switches from my now desoldred V60 are good switches, but felt almost of a MX Clear equivalent in the Alps world. Comparing the Matias's tactile bump it is in-between SKCM Amber and SKCM Blue. With SKCM Blue being a MX Blue equivalent and the SKCM Amber being MX Grey. Matias is MX Clear as I said, right in the middle.
Hollow AF, I agree for sure. Still smooth, but doesn't touch SKCM Orange or Blue. Can't comment on SKCM White since for a very strange reason I've never tried them yet being one of the most common Alps switches ever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I got the Matias switches today, just from testing the switches individually I kind of like them more than the actual alps, they feel snappier, lighter, and smoother.
however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.
How about swapping them into genuine complicated Alps housings? That'll likely eliminate the hollowness. Well, if you put them in a switch with a long switchplate like SKCM Orange. The short switch plate varieties also feel and sound a bit more hollow.
I tried this, but the other way around. It seems Matias switch parts are slightly bigger than Alps SKCM/SKCL. Couldn't even swap a SKCM Orange slider into a Matias housing if I recall. So there is no way any bigger Matias parts (expect for the tactile leaf?) that will fit into any OG Alps stuff. Sorry to break the bubble.
I also tried to swap a complete complicated tactile leaf into a Matias housing. Used a screwdriver to cut down some plastic inside the housing and got the contact leaf in. Never got the switch properly together but for a few moments a SKCM Orange switch inside a clear housing looked badass :D
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 11 March 2016, 00:52:57
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 11 March 2016, 03:56:44
I just need to order a couple more matias switches and a new keycap set and this baby will be good to go,
Post by: Webserfer on Fri, 11 March 2016, 04:27:51
Also as a side question, has anyone heard of that pc brand? the desktop is the same brand but google says it doesn't exist, I can't find info on it anywhere.
PC Direct was a US "economy clone" maker in the mid-late 1980s. There were several companies that followed Michael Dell (aka PC's LTD back then) into the IBM-PC-clone market - including the delightfully-named "Famous Maker" brand:
- "Hey, I know where you can buy a famous maker PC for cheap!"
My first computer was a PC's LTD 80286 that cost just under $3K and did not include a printer. At that point the keyboard was one of the peripherals that you bought as a separate component to complete your rig.
Apparently they went on into the 90s as this machine was around 1994 as that seems to be the latest date I could find on it.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 11 March 2016, 09:17:46
Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)
(http://i.imgur.com/TMQLI0C.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
Don't have to use her like this anymore:
(http://i.imgur.com/0xcXuSS.jpg)
Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 11 March 2016, 09:20:31
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/g6VCflD.jpg)
Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TMQLI0C.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
Don't have to use her like this anymore:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xcXuSS.jpg)
Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.
I'm placing a new vote for KeyCon 2016 in The Big Easy so I can infiltrate Chez E3E and play with all the alps goodness :cool:
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 11 March 2016, 18:03:45
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 20:04:23
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/g6VCflD.jpg)
Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TMQLI0C.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
Don't have to use her like this anymore:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xcXuSS.jpg)
Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.
Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?
Post by: sean on Fri, 11 March 2016, 20:26:31
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/g6VCflD.jpg)
Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TMQLI0C.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
Don't have to use her like this anymore:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xcXuSS.jpg)
Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.
Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/g6VCflD.jpg)
Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TMQLI0C.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
Don't have to use her like this anymore:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xcXuSS.jpg)
Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.
Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?
That's like asking a woman if they're pregnant!
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 11 March 2016, 20:42:24
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 21:12:02
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/g6VCflD.jpg)
Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TMQLI0C.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
Don't have to use her like this anymore:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xcXuSS.jpg)
Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.
Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?
That's like asking a woman if they're pregnant!
So Eve is equatable is a fat woman? Lol. Wonder how many keyboards he will
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 11 March 2016, 21:13:04
Post by: Webserfer on Fri, 11 March 2016, 21:28:59
I may of accidentally fried this board or at least the ships on it as while trying to repair the desktop its paired with I put voltage into some wires it shouldn't go and now throws up an error and doesn't respond.
So if I did kill it my question is, is it worth trying to repair? The circuit board looks like I can just cut the traces and solder to the switches. I saw some cheap keyboard controllers around.
Is it worth my time or are the switches weak, old or cheap to be worth it?
Anyone?
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 21:37:14
Post by: E3E on Sat, 12 March 2016, 00:20:40
Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?
It took me a while to get them, but I worked smart, not stupidly expensive. The most expensive blue Alps board I got was $123 for a dinky Monterey K101 103, and it's not even that great. The price was thanks to the EMS shipping rate from China.
The cheapest boards have been $85 for a Leading Edge DC-2014 and $89 for the Leading Edge DC-3014 and $89 again for the Datapoint Acer KB101A. Otherwise, it's been $100 on average for every blue Alps board I own. So kind of pricy, but not ridiculously so.
Started with the NTC 6151N, then got the DC-2014, then got the FAME TH-5539, then the Monterey K101 103 (the back label is confusing), then the Leading Edge DC-3014, then the Focus FK-555, and finally the Acer KB101A. I'm also getting a Focus FK-2001, but it's going to be scrapped (it's just the PCB and plate and has missing caps-got it for $25) and is going to go into the Orion v2. My Orion v2 will likely go between Alps SKCM Blues and Alps SKCL (linear) Browns.
I wanted to put my Alps SKCM Neon Greens (or Lime, or Tactile Greens) in the Orion v2, but after restoring the keyboards, I just couldn't.
I've spent at least $2000 in this hobby so far; I'm not sure how much exactly. I try to be as frugal as possible.
Here's some typing videos of the Xerox keyboard with SKCM Green:
They are definitely my favorite Alps boards right now. Such nice caps, the switches feel nice on both early and old models, and the look is just so sleek and it's more slimline than any other vintage I've dealt with which is just so cool.
My FAME keyboard is my favorite, but that is because I personalized it and that made it very dear to me. If we're talking stock, then these take the cake.
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 12 March 2016, 00:37:48
Post by: E3E on Sat, 12 March 2016, 00:45:17
@E3E could you also post the sounds of skcm browns and skcl browns? I'm really interested on those 2 switches
I have no SKCM Browns in a board right now, but I can throw them in my other hotswappable Duck Eagle and record that for you with their original PBT caps if you want. I still have the terminal board the SKCL browns came in. They sound amazing in the plastic-cased board they came in. I don't know if they'll sound as pleasing in the Orion v2, but if they sound anything like that at all, then I will be very pleased to use them.
Like almost all Alps linears though, they ping like mad. Spring lubing is a good idea.
SKCM Brown and pine SKCM Neon Green are very similar but Brown is a bit more firm and rigid. I like Neons more, but SKCM Browns are nice.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 12 March 2016, 02:34:19
Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?
It took me a while to get them, but I worked smart, not stupidly expensive. The most expensive blue Alps board I got was $123 for a dinky Monterey K101 103, and it's not even that great. The price was thanks to the EMS shipping rate from China.
The cheapest boards have been $85 for a Leading Edge DC-2014 and $89 for the Leading Edge DC-3014 and $89 again for the Datapoint Acer KB101A. Otherwise, it's been $100 on average for every blue Alps board I own. So kind of pricy, but not ridiculously so.
Started with the NTC 6151N, then got the DC-2014, then got the FAME TH-5539, then the Monterey K101 103 (the back label is confusing), then the Leading Edge DC-3014, then the Focus FK-555, and finally the Acer KB101A. I'm also getting a Focus FK-2001, but it's going to be scrapped (it's just the PCB and plate and has missing caps-got it for $25) and is going to go into the Orion v2. My Orion v2 will likely go between Alps SKCM Blues and Alps SKCL (linear) Browns.
I wanted to put my Alps SKCM Neon Greens (or Lime, or Tactile Greens) in the Orion v2, but after restoring the keyboards, I just couldn't.
I've spent at least $2000 in this hobby so far; I'm not sure how much exactly. I try to be as frugal as possible.
Here's some typing videos of the Xerox keyboard with SKCM Green:
They are definitely my favorite Alps boards right now. Such nice caps, the switches feel nice on both early and old models, and the look is just so sleek and it's more slimline than any other vintage I've dealt with which is just so cool.
My FAME keyboard is my favorite, but that is because I personalized it and that made it very dear to me. If we're talking stock, then these take the cake.
Those are some amazing prices! Right now there is a DC-3014 bidding near $180. You sniped the **** out of those.
If you love the Xerox's so much then convert one! Those sounds really nice. The pine sounds like somewhat scratchier SKCM Orange while the bamboo's sound like SKCM Salmons. There is definitely a generational difference that can be heard in the tone. Sleek looking boards indeed. Hows the layout, could you get used to it from standard ANSI?
I've probaley spent less than 1k. Its not like I have a crazy budget. Avg board I buy is around 60-70. The Zenith was $70, the SGI was $60, G80 $40, Model M $40, and the most expensive I own right now is the V60 at $120. The most I ever spent on my former K70 RGB at $170. Not doing too bad at all. Plus when I buy switches to swap I always can sell the old switches and break even on those. Still need to sell some MX Clears and modded SKCM White Damp.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 12 March 2016, 03:23:22
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 12 March 2016, 08:47:46
The total net amount of money I've spent on keyboards, converters, boxes, switches, pullers, soldering gear, tools, etc. is about £60, although I should be in the black again soon. I simply can't afford any more xD .
Lucky dog.
I can never find enough buy-low/sell-high gear to make a dent.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 12 March 2016, 08:52:26
So if I did kill it my question is, is it worth trying to repair? The circuit board looks like I can just cut the traces and solder to the switches. I saw some cheap keyboard controllers around.
Is it worth my time or are the switches weak, old or cheap to be worth it?
That is not a lot of info to go on. Are you talking about the old white Alps keyboard?
There are possibilities, but it may not be worth investing the time and effort unless you know that you really like that particular board.
Controllers are very different, and that thing is probably 25 years old or more.
If you can see what appears to be a localized problem, then maybe you can replace just that area.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 12 March 2016, 09:18:42
Post by: E3E on Sat, 12 March 2016, 14:45:23
Speaking of Blue Alps, I remember back when they were even cheaper than $85. I got my Samsung branded Chicony 5161 from a Goodwill auction (by accident!) and later sold it for the market price at the time... $60! And that board was in almost perfect condition!
EXCEPT FOR THE CRACKED CASE (twas just a tiny thing). Haha, just teasing. I actually have that bezel too, as it's where I sourced the super cool Samsung sticker for my FAME keyboard. It shall forever live on!
Yeah, Chyros has some good hook ups with universities and e-cyclers. In New Orleans, we don't have much, at least nothing close enough to just go out and nab. ComradeSniper (not in New Orleans), for instance, drives out 7 hours to his e-cycling contact. I wouldn't and can't do that.
Oh how I would love dirt cheap finds, but I'm comfy with $70-100 for a good vintage. The x4 Xerox find for $99 (they are individually worth SO much more than that, imo), and the $80-range blue Alps finds like this Datapoint branded Acer KB101A and the Leading Edge DC-3014 are some of my favorites and feel like real deals to me.
The Focus FK-555 I got in immaculate condition is also something that's very prized because of how rare they are and how much more so it is rare to see any old Alps board in perfect condition. Score, especially for being such a hefty and well-built board! That one has one of my favorite typing sounds for blue Alps along with my FAME. I guess the metal-backed ones really are some of the nicest acoustically.
Post by: Webserfer on Sun, 13 March 2016, 09:51:42
So if I did kill it my question is, is it worth trying to repair? The circuit board looks like I can just cut the traces and solder to the switches. I saw some cheap keyboard controllers around.
Is it worth my time or are the switches weak, old or cheap to be worth it?
That is not a lot of info to go on. Are you talking about the old white Alps keyboard?
There are possibilities, but it may not be worth investing the time and effort unless you know that you really like that particular board.
Controllers are very different, and that thing is probably 25 years old or more.
If you can see what appears to be a localized problem, then maybe you can replace just that area.
Oh right sorry I removed the images as to not clutter, Its the PcDirect old board on the last page, here's the album link if you need it http://imgur.com/a/iKZVX
I actually (somehow) got it to work again on my main PC :D So I guess ignore the part about the keyboard controller :P
Its from about 93 so at least 22 years.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 13 March 2016, 10:02:10
I actually (somehow) got it to work again on my main PC
Sometimes we forget that not everything can be hot-plugged like USB.
A PS/2 or older keyboard must be discovered at boot-up.
Post by: pr0ximity on Sun, 13 March 2016, 16:33:13
Please guys, stop killing off these old Zeniths D: . They've got looks, character, beautiful badges, NKRO and are built infinitely better than anything you could possibly transplant the switches into D: . They really don't deserve such a cruel fate :'( .
:cool: crossposting: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76021.msg2098103#msg2098103
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 13 March 2016, 18:19:08
The clamps on the bottom are broken, so the bottom half of the top shell just kind of hovers and is floppy.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 13 March 2016, 19:10:25
Anybody have any idea how I could fix the casing on my Focus?
The clamps on the bottom are broken, so the bottom half of the top shell just kind of hovers and is floppy.
If you have any scrap ABS around that matches the color, you could weld the plastic and fill any gaps that way. That's the only way you'll get a bond that's strong enough to withstand the kind of stress that tabs handle, I'd say. There are some plastic bonding glues and pastes, but I'm not so sure on their durability.
I fixed some broken tabs on a board by using some ABS sheet, plast-aid pool repair paste that bonds to anything acrylic-based, and plastic welding. It held up okay, but I still never plan on opening the board ever again after that.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 13 March 2016, 19:19:27
Anybody have any idea how I could fix the casing on my Focus?
The clamps on the bottom are broken, so the bottom half of the top shell just kind of hovers and is floppy.
If you have any scrap ABS around that matches the color, you could weld the plastic and fill any gaps that way. That's the only way you'll get a bond that's strong enough to withstand the kind of stress that tabs handle, I'd say. There are some plastic bonding glues and pastes, but I'm not so sure on their durability.
I fixed some broken tabs on a board by using some ABS sheet, plast-aid pool repair paste that bonds to anything acrylic-based, and plastic welding. It held up okay, but I still never plan on opening the board ever again after that.
I actually found some super glue lying around, i could just use three small dabs of it on the corner and the middle, then if I need to open it I could just use a butter knife and some goo gone.
I'll be sure to finish up tinkering with the insides before I do this. I've been using tape to keep it closed in the mean time but it does not grip well to the plastic and peels off in an hour, even if I don't touch it at all.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 13 March 2016, 21:46:47
1. Drill a hole through both parts of the keyboard
2. Put a bolt through the keyboard and use some super glue to hold the head of the bolt to the keyboard
3. Put a nut/washer on the part of the bolt sticking through the bottom of the keyboard
(http://i.imgur.com/lfgFquf.png)
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:25:38
I actually have a new idea. It won't look as pretty but it's much easier to work with.This is a mightily ugly fix !
1. Drill a hole through both parts of the keyboard
2. Put a bolt through the keyboard and use some super glue to hold the head of the bolt to the keyboard
3. Put a nut/washer on the part of the bolt sticking through the bottom of the keyboardShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/lfgFquf.png)
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 14 March 2016, 02:32:01
I actually have a new idea. It won't look as pretty but it's much easier to work with.This is a mightily ugly fix !
1. Drill a hole through both parts of the keyboard
2. Put a bolt through the keyboard and use some super glue to hold the head of the bolt to the keyboard
3. Put a nut/washer on the part of the bolt sticking through the bottom of the keyboardShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/lfgFquf.png)
I could also put the top of the bolt inside of the case, glued to the inner shell, so the only thing protruding is the bottom
Post by: Webserfer on Mon, 14 March 2016, 10:39:23
I actually (somehow) got it to work again on my main PC
Sometimes we forget that not everything can be hot-plugged like USB.
A PS/2 or older keyboard must be discovered at boot-up.
Dont worry I used to use this thing with its original machine I know all about the reboot needed stuff
. The amount of times ive had to reboot my machine recently for testing this KB is to many.
I actually have a new idea. It won't look as pretty but it's much easier to work with.
1. Drill a hole through both parts of the keyboard
2. Put a bolt through the keyboard and use some super glue to hold the head of the bolt to the keyboard
3. Put a nut/washer on the part of the bolt sticking through the bottom of the keyboardShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/lfgFquf.png)
Why not just roll with it and give the board an industrial theme? Bolts, metal, worn pain ect? then you could say no one owns a board like yours :D
Post by: E3E on Mon, 14 March 2016, 12:47:23
I actually have a new idea. It won't look as pretty but it's much easier to work with.
1. Drill a hole through both parts of the keyboard
2. Put a bolt through the keyboard and use some super glue to hold the head of the bolt to the keyboard
3. Put a nut/washer on the part of the bolt sticking through the bottom of the keyboardShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/lfgFquf.png)
Depending on how the tabs lock into the case, I bet there are some ways you can do this pretty seamlessly. Because of how the Xerox Docutech's tabs locked in, there was no easy way to fix the tabs without it looking unsightly, which I felt was NOT an option for those boards.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 15 March 2016, 19:06:42
Post by: chyros on Tue, 15 March 2016, 20:06:08
So I have demik's HHKB with me here and I don't get the "SKCM Orange is the closet switch to Topre" thing at all. There barely similar. By far the closet is SKCM Cream Damp or White Damp. They are 85% Topre. I think the reason I was so harsh toward Damp Alps switches previously is the weight, a 70g Damp switch feels mushy. If Alps had a faster return rate as well then it would be very close to Topre.SKCM Neon Green are closer yet than SKCM Cream Damp. They don't even feel like other Alps switches.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 15 March 2016, 20:07:03
So I have demik's HHKB with me here and I don't get the "SKCM Orange is the closet switch to Topre" thing at all. There barely similar. By far the closet is SKCM Cream Damp or White Damp. They are 85% Topre. I think the reason I was so harsh toward Damp Alps switches previously is the weight, a 70g Damp switch feels mushy. If Alps had a faster return rate as well then it would be very close to Topre.
I tried both Damped (I call them Dampened, but hey) Cream yesterday as well as Topre, and I personally think that a damped cream slider in a tactile brown or tactile green housing feels most like Topre.
Though I prefer the feeling of Alps to Topre, to be honest, so I'd never make a board with the intent to simulate Topre. The main difference, I think, between the feel Topre and Alps is the bottom out. Hard clacks from bottoming out on Alps, but being rubber, of course Topre has a gentle bottom out. This is why damped Alps switches are part of the equation.
I was also looking at damped cream's tactile leaves, and it looks far sharper than even Alps SKCM Salmon. It's got a lot more tactility. Soon, I'll have a bamboo Black Alps Dell AT101W to compare leaves with to see if damped has its own unique leaf or if it's shared with blacks.
I find damped switches alone to feel like uncoordinated Topre, or what you'd get if you crossed Alps with a rubber dome (Acer switch?). It's not very smooth, it's wobbly because it's Alps.
Mattr, you talk about the return rate. Would this mean an even higher weighted spring would be needed?
EDIT: Just adding a disclaimer that I'm new to both Topre and SKCM Damped Cream, so these are just initial impressions!
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 15 March 2016, 20:39:38
So I have demik's HHKB with me here and I don't get the "SKCM Orange is the closet switch to Topre" thing at all. There barely similar. By far the closet is SKCM Cream Damp or White Damp. They are 85% Topre. I think the reason I was so harsh toward Damp Alps switches previously is the weight, a 70g Damp switch feels mushy. If Alps had a faster return rate as well then it would be very close to Topre.
I tried both Damped (I call them Dampened, but hey) Cream yesterday as well as Topre, and I personally think that a damped cream slider in a tactile brown or tactile green housing feels most like Topre.
Though I prefer the feeling of Alps to Topre, to be honest, so I'd never make a board with the intent to simulate Topre. The main difference, I think, between the feel Topre and Alps is the bottom out. Hard clacks from bottoming out on Alps, but being rubber, of course Topre has a gentle bottom out. This is why damped Alps switches are part of the equation.
I was also looking at damped cream's tactile leaves, and it looks far sharper than even Alps SKCM Salmon. It's got a lot more tactility. Soon, I'll have a bamboo Black Alps Dell AT101W to compare leaves with to see if damped has its own unique leaf or if it's shared with blacks.
I find damped switches alone to feel like uncoordinated Topre, or what you'd get if you crossed Alps with a rubber dome (Acer switch?). It's not very smooth, it's wobbly because it's Alps.
Mattr, you talk about the return rate. Would this mean an even higher weighted spring would be needed?
EDIT: Just adding a disclaimer that I'm new to both Topre and SKCM Damped Cream, so these are just initial impressions!
Yea. I used to daily a AEKII with almost NIB level Cream Damp Alps and I agree with you. I just dont get the notion that SKCM Orange is the closet. Doesn't make much sense to me.
Kinda. By return rate I mean how fast the switch goes back to its normal position. Cherry MX goes back very quickly while Topre is in the middle and Alps is last. Alps being slow kinda bugs me on longer unit spacebars. For Alps I guess a heavier weighted spring would be needed. To compensate for the design making it slow? Since Cherry MX can be quite light yet have a faster return rate.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 15 March 2016, 21:05:03
Yeah, I get you with return rate. Alps does use a tiny spring compared to Cherry. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
Post by: Venatorious on Tue, 15 March 2016, 21:53:59
The "thud" is quite noticeable on browns.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 15 March 2016, 22:29:05
I'm dead serious, I will post pics when I get the chance. I will fix the clamps and paint it grey.
EDIT:
Instead I might buy a beat up yellowed FK-2001 on Ebay and paint over it instead, so I don't have to fix the damned clamps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 15 March 2016, 22:50:02
Industrial FK-2001!
I'm dead serious, I will post pics when I get the chance. I will fix the clamps and paint it grey.
EDIT:
Instead I might buy a beat up yellowed FK-2001 on Ebay and paint over it instead, so I don't have to fix the damned clamps.
Focus beat ya to it, a completely black FK-2001 exists. See this thread from 5 years ago https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 15 March 2016, 23:23:50
Focus beat ya to it, a completely black FK-2001 exists. See this thread from 5 years ago https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0)
One went on eBay not too long ago, actually, and for hardly anything.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SbYAAOSwoydWjq3o/s-l1600.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Black-FOCUS-FK-2001-type-Clicky-Keyboard-AT-XT-Mold-Injected-keys-/252241606418?hash=item3abac57712%3Ag%3ASbYAAOSwoydWjq3o&nma=true&si=9Ba%252FCfHEbEBqYK8fClKFuHZquqs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 16 March 2016, 00:02:47
Focus beat ya to it, a completely black FK-2001 exists. See this thread from 5 years ago https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0)
One went on eBay not too long ago, actually, and for hardly anything.Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SbYAAOSwoydWjq3o/s-l1600.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Black-FOCUS-FK-2001-type-Clicky-Keyboard-AT-XT-Mold-Injected-keys-/252241606418?hash=item3abac57712%3Ag%3ASbYAAOSwoydWjq3o&nma=true&si=9Ba%252FCfHEbEBqYK8fClKFuHZquqs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Oh yea, I saw that a while back. It was probably for some special/specific system or something.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 16 March 2016, 02:35:23
Industrial FK-2001!
I'm dead serious, I will post pics when I get the chance. I will fix the clamps and paint it grey.
EDIT:
Instead I might buy a beat up yellowed FK-2001 on Ebay and paint over it instead, so I don't have to fix the damned clamps.
Nice, but it's black, I'm talking grey like an Industrial Model M.
Focus beat ya to it, a completely black FK-2001 exists. See this thread from 5 years ago https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21106.0)
Post by: spanyam on Thu, 24 March 2016, 02:05:54
(http://i.imgur.com/ptTH6yq.jpg)
Unfortunately, the second-hand keycap set I bought is missing one 1.5u, but PMK will be shipping me a 4 pack soon :D Loving these switches already, especially the sound.
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 24 March 2016, 05:24:40
After enjoying a KBP V60 with Matias Linears for a couple of months, I just built a 60% Infinity (using Hasu's ALPS64 PCB) with SKCM Orange Alps. It's an absolute joy to type on, and I'm really liking the DSA keycap profile. Here's a pic:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ptTH6yq.jpg)
Unfortunately, the second-hand keycap set I bought is missing one 1.5u, but PMK will be shipping me a 4 pack soon :D Loving these switches already, especially the sound.
I didn't know SP made Alps DSA keycaps!
Post by: njbair on Thu, 24 March 2016, 07:37:51
Yep, they've been a part of the Infinity kit on Massdrop since the beginning. However I don't think they are a stock item in the PMK store, at least not as a full set.After enjoying a KBP V60 with Matias Linears for a couple of months, I just built a 60% Infinity (using Hasu's ALPS64 PCB) with SKCM Orange Alps. It's an absolute joy to type on, and I'm really liking the DSA keycap profile. Here's a pic:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ptTH6yq.jpg)
Unfortunately, the second-hand keycap set I bought is missing one 1.5u, but PMK will be shipping me a 4 pack soon :D Loving these switches already, especially the sound.
I didn't know SP made Alps DSA keycaps!
Post by: spanyam on Thu, 24 March 2016, 07:44:32
Yep, they've been a part of the Infinity kit on Massdrop since the beginning. However I don't think they are a stock item in the PMK store, at least not as a full set.
Yeah not as a full set unfortunately. But if all you're going for is the Infinity hacker layout, you can build the full set by buying blank key packs from them. If you want a more standard layout though (namely 1.25u and 2.25u keys), then you will be missing pieces.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 24 March 2016, 07:51:00
What about the 6U spacebar? That's not in stock, is it?Yep, they've been a part of the Infinity kit on Massdrop since the beginning. However I don't think they are a stock item in the PMK store, at least not as a full set.
Yeah not as a full set unfortunately. But if all you're going for is the Infinity hacker layout, you can build the full set by buying blank key packs from them. If you want a more standard layout though (namely 1.25u and 2.25u keys), then you will be missing pieces.
Post by: spanyam on Thu, 24 March 2016, 09:37:00
What about the 6U spacebar? That's not in stock, is it?Yep, they've been a part of the Infinity kit on Massdrop since the beginning. However I don't think they are a stock item in the PMK store, at least not as a full set.
Yeah not as a full set unfortunately. But if all you're going for is the Infinity hacker layout, you can build the full set by buying blank key packs from them. If you want a more standard layout though (namely 1.25u and 2.25u keys), then you will be missing pieces.
Oh yeah, that too. So I guess with the provided pieces in stock, it's not possible to build any full alps set.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 24 March 2016, 19:50:34
What about the 6U spacebar? That's not in stock, is it?Yep, they've been a part of the Infinity kit on Massdrop since the beginning. However I don't think they are a stock item in the PMK store, at least not as a full set.
Yeah not as a full set unfortunately. But if all you're going for is the Infinity hacker layout, you can build the full set by buying blank key packs from them. If you want a more standard layout though (namely 1.25u and 2.25u keys), then you will be missing pieces.
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/
Post by: spanyam on Thu, 24 March 2016, 20:32:30
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/
Oooh, I didn't realize they had multiple size options on the DCS spacebar, or that 6u was the size of their DSA spacebar! So, given all this, one can construct a full ALPS DSA set (infinity hacker layout or hhkb layout) with these:
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-1-75-space-pack-of-4/
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-1-5-space-pack-of-4/
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-1-space-pack-of-10/
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-2-space-pack-of-4/
You'll be limited to black for a few of them, but overall not bad, given that they're decent PBT.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 25 March 2016, 15:49:06
Post by: sean on Fri, 25 March 2016, 16:38:57
I know some people were asking about the stuff I was preparing to sell, including group 1 of my Japanese stuff. If interested, look here: http://www.ebay.com/sch/blaise170/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
That Lucky Board 7 looks awesome. glws!
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 25 March 2016, 22:07:09
(http://i.imgur.com/gYTSm90.jpg)
It is super banana edition, although the flash might hide it a little.
(http://imgur.com/CFUccCM.jpg)
I like the LE logo very much, although I wish it were the more blueish one.
(http://imgur.com/LMaEG7c.jpg)
The caps were really dirty, and you can really feel the difference when blue alps is dirty and when its clean.
(http://imgur.com/GGOwlD3.jpg)
Should I have used a NSFW tag on that one?
(http://imgur.com/76YHmFT.jpg)
After cleaning, you can really see the yellowing on the caps in this picture.
(http://imgur.com/haUkAAU.jpg)
All done! I also cleaned some of the switches and they feel much better now.
Post by: spanyam on Fri, 25 March 2016, 22:10:12
All done! I also cleaned some of the switches and they feel much better now.
Awesome! Any special procedure involved in cleaning ALPS switches?
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 25 March 2016, 22:16:34
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 25 March 2016, 22:25:58
Would look cool on a AEK.
Post by: spanyam on Fri, 25 March 2016, 22:45:11
Just make sure you clean every part of the switch really. The slider and inner housing is the most important part.
Ahh ok thanks
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 25 March 2016, 23:11:50
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 25 March 2016, 23:23:53
Ha yeah that's one of the ones I just posted a few replies ago. :p I don't know what kind of switches they are but it's clicky which is surprising. I think they might be SKBM Cream which is currently undocumented in the DT wiki. I'm pretty sure they are Alps though. It's an older Alps SKCL Lock switch, as the newer ones used a gray slider. So I'm not really sure what I'm looking at. Don't want to open it up either since it is in such good condition. I thought about keeping it for myself but I went ahead and listed it to see what I'd get.
Yea, from the pic they look to be SKCM, not anything that makes it obviously look like a clone.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 26 March 2016, 15:58:42
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 27 March 2016, 00:04:10
Ha yeah that's one of the ones I just posted a few replies ago. :p I don't know what kind of switches they are but it's clicky which is surprising. I think they might be SKBM Cream which is currently undocumented in the DT wiki. I'm pretty sure they are Alps though. It's an older Alps SKCL Lock switch, as the newer ones used a gray slider. So I'm not really sure what I'm looking at. Don't want to open it up either since it is in such good condition. I thought about keeping it for myself but I went ahead and listed it to see what I'd get.
Yea, from the pic they look to be SKCM, not anything that makes it obviously look like a clone.
Neat, Focus keyboards always have an interesting quirk.
I'd do some retr0bright on that thing,
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:18:45
I was expecting SKCM "ivory" switches (earliest tactile SKCM switches, about the same stiffness as salmon switches), as that’s what the ~1986–1987 versions of these typewriters had, but this version turns out to have plate-mounted Alps plate spring (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_plate_spring) switches throughout the main section, with double-acting plate spring switches on the spacebar, return, and back space keys, and a mix of SKCL green and double-acting SKCL switches on the lock key and on the side function keys.
That explains why the later typewriters used a mix of SKCM and double-acting plate spring switches. I assume the switch from plate spring to SKCM was for cost cutting, but maybe someone at Canon or Alps just preferred them.
Keycaps are spherical, mostly doubleshot, with pad printed legends on all the window keys (except the lock key). They were originally white on gray, but now are yellow on brown.
Anyhow, pictures:
(http://i.imgur.com/5iWnS7d.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hgQLP9F.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/S5MIcOW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/V4uX2jQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/mrhSy63.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CyzssSK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RGBpdGE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6K07r9n.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/wTkkr0B.jpg)
Bonus keycap profile pic (for more of these, see https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550):
(http://i.imgur.com/ivgULup.jpg)
Unfortunately during shipping, a bunch of the internal typewriter mechanism parts broke. I’m hoping to someday make some custom Alps plate spring keyboards though, so maybe the keyboard bits at least can eventually find a good home.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:26:51
Canon AP500-II typewriter, 1985.
I was expecting SKCM "ivory" switches (earliest tactile SKCM switches, about the same stiffness as salmon switches), as that’s what the ~1986–1987 versions of these typewriters had, but this version turns out to have plate-mounted Alps plate spring (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_plate_spring) switches throughout the main section, with double-acting plate spring switches on the spacebar, return, and back space keys, and a mix of SKCL green and double-acting SKCL switches on the lock key and on the side function keys.
That explains why the later typewriters used a mix of SKCM and double-acting plate spring switches. I assume the switch from plate spring to SKCM was for cost cutting, but maybe someone at Canon or Alps just preferred them.
Keycaps are spherical, mostly doubleshot, with pad printed legends on all the window keys (except the lock key). They were originally white on gray, but now are yellow on brown.
Anyhow, pictures:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5iWnS7d.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hgQLP9F.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/S5MIcOW.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V4uX2jQ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mrhSy63.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/CyzssSK.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wTkkr0B.jpg)
Bonus keycap profile pic (for more of these, see https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550):Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ivgULup.jpg)
Unfortunately during shipping, a bunch of the internal typewriter mechanism parts broke. I’m hoping to someday make some custom Alps plate spring keyboards though, so maybe the keyboard bits at least can eventually find a good home.
Where did you get that! :eek: I have been searching for those forever on craigslist, but I haven't found one yet, the closet I got was with Green SKCC switches.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:27:49
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:35:56
Quite an exotic mix of switches on that board
Indeed!
You can only wonder: "Why?"
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:36:13
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 27 March 2016, 17:55:11
You can only wonder: "Why?"This typewriter has a ~170 page manual. It can store several typed pages in memory so you can quickly type out form letters, stores the whole current page so you can go back and correct mistakes, it supports find/replace. You can type e.g. superscripts and subscripts and a variety of exotic characters. Supports spell-check with a 90,000 word dictionary. There are sophisticated table layout tools. The typewriter can be connected to a floppy disk drive or to a computer. And so on.
Here’s an ad: https://books.google.com/books?id=0gv4b-LFdWQC&pg=PA55
They needed all the double-click and LED keys to support various advanced functionality. Keep in mind, in the early 1980s, there was a competitive market for typewriters at many price points, trained professional office workers used them full-time for work, and these top-end business machines were competing on features, and cost thousands of dollars.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 27 March 2016, 18:16:47
Eventually I wanna get a Sega Teradrive board. Nice keys and Alps plate spring.Thought that was Alps buckling spring? Oo
Very nice-looking keyboard though, I definitely want one too eventually :D .
Post by: StormyMonday on Sun, 27 March 2016, 18:20:39
You can only wonder: "Why?"This typewriter has a ~170 page manual. It can store several typed pages in memory so you can quickly type out form letters, stores the whole current page so you can go back and correct mistakes, it supports find/replace. You can type e.g. superscripts and subscripts and a variety of exotic characters. Supports spell-check with a 90,000 word dictionary. There are sophisticated table layout tools. The typewriter can be connected to a floppy disk drive or to a computer. And so on.
Here’s an ad: https://books.google.com/books?id=0gv4b-LFdWQC&pg=PA55
They needed all the double-click and LED keys to support various advanced functionality. Keep in mind, in the early 1980s, there was a competitive market for typewriters at many price points, trained professional office workers used them full-time for work, and these top-end business machines were competing on features, and cost thousands of dollars.
And while PCs weren't exactly ubiquitous yet, the handwriting was already on the wall. The typewriter manufacturers had to significantly up their game until new business models could be implemented.
That is a VERY impressive feature set, indeed!
Post by: beehatch on Thu, 31 March 2016, 18:38:45
Post by: Venatorious on Thu, 31 March 2016, 18:41:28
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 31 March 2016, 18:41:52
Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?
Looking for Matias? PM me.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 31 March 2016, 18:44:43
Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?I built a sample plate with a few different Alps switches. It's got White, Blue, Cream, Click modded Cream, Orange, and Click-modded Orange.
CPTBadAss has it right now. Get in touch with him and tell him I told him to send it your way when he's done with it.
Post by: beehatch on Thu, 31 March 2016, 18:49:53
What kind do you want to try out?
Not sure really, but I've been wanting to for awhile now.
Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?
Looking for Matias? PM me.
done!
Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?I built a sample plate with a few different Alps switches. It's got White, Blue, Cream, Click modded Cream, Orange, and Click-modded Orange.
CPTBadAss has it right now. Get in touch with him and tell him I told him to send it your way when he's done with it.
Sounds like a good idea. Alp Sampler OuO
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 31 March 2016, 18:52:39
Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?u want to buy my alps bord? its on classified
i gib good price :p
Post by: demik on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:11:01
Post by: njbair on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:11:05
Does your HHKB know?What kind do you want to try out?
Not sure really, but I've been wanting to for awhile now.Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?
Looking for Matias? PM me.
done!Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?I built a sample plate with a few different Alps switches. It's got White, Blue, Cream, Click modded Cream, Orange, and Click-modded Orange.
CPTBadAss has it right now. Get in touch with him and tell him I told him to send it your way when he's done with it.
Sounds like a good idea. Alp Sampler OuO
Post by: beehatch on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:12:31
don't tell my hhkb babies, they are my preciouses
Post by: demik on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:14:08
Post by: Venatorious on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:24:10
i gib good price :p
lies ;)
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:39:11
The keycaps are amazing though. Thick PBT with nice dyesub legends. Similarish overall shape to Canon typewriter caps, but not quite as tilted on the number row, and overall not quite as deep a scoop on the typical key. Spherical shape, but with a rectangular top (unlike most other spherical caps like e.g. DSA which have squarish tops). Scoops on F, J, and 5. Interesting narrow keycap shape on the F keys (these would just barely work with an Alps SKCM switch), I guess as a copy of the original LK201. The right and left arrow keycaps are totally stupid, but whatever.
Unfortunately the one I got has a broken stem on the "R" keycap (also a missing "back space" cap). The dyesub printing is nice, but I might have to just dye the lot solid black, and use them with a custom logical letter layout.
HaaTa has a bunch of nice pictures on Flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157663966300963/
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1446/25979549595_b6b1c07ca8_k.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1528/25953652636_8c47cec6fa_k.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1456/25979378695_eded8200dd_k.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1720/25858597022_90c067b7e5_k.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:56:13
Some of the best Alps keycaps have to be on C.Itoh LK201-layout terminal boards [...]
Nice, you just snagged the one off of eBay, eh? Looks good.
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 31 March 2016, 19:59:29
I want to try plate spring so badSome of the best Alps keycaps have to be on C.Itoh LK201-layout terminal boards [...]
Nice, you just snagged the one off of eBay, eh? Looks good.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 31 March 2016, 20:02:55
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 31 March 2016, 20:13:37
Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?I built a sample plate with a few different Alps switches. It's got White, Blue, Cream, Click modded Cream, Orange, and Click-modded Orange.
CPTBadAss has it right now. Get in touch with him and tell him I told him to send it your way when he's done with it.
Sorry I held on to it for so long. I was going to write a quick review and then I can pass it on to beehatch. I didn't mean to not give you any updates about it!
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 31 March 2016, 20:14:14
Nice, you just snagged the one off of eBay, eh? Looks good.Yes, I just bought the recent one. But the pics here are from HaaTa’s. (Which, I should note, I pointed out to him on eBay like a year ago or something. To be specific, I made the mistake of asking him if he knew what type of switch it had, and he immediately bought it. :P)
I want to try plate spring so badThis isn’t plate spring.
I have a Microterm 5510 terminal keyboard with the same LK201 layout. Nice dyesubs, Green Alps, pretty okayish layout. Best part was the new old stock condition! Don't know whether to sell or try to convert with Soarer (don't know what protocol it uses though).Also a fun looking keyboard. Very different keycaps though (I think standard cylindrical Alps profile). There are also green/yellow Alps Texas Instruments and Tektronix keyboards with somewhat similar layouts, again with regular cylindrical caps.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 31 March 2016, 20:21:25
No worries. Never thought twice about it until I saw someone else who could use it.Does anyone have like a couple of diff alps switches I could try out?I built a sample plate with a few different Alps switches. It's got White, Blue, Cream, Click modded Cream, Orange, and Click-modded Orange.
CPTBadAss has it right now. Get in touch with him and tell him I told him to send it your way when he's done with it.
Sorry I held on to it for so long. I was going to write a quick review and then I can pass it on to beehatch. I didn't mean to not give you any updates about it!
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 03 April 2016, 19:35:43
khronokrator and Chryos and I have been chatting about this board among other things like khronokrator's FK-9000 in my Great Finds thread for it. Ended up getting the keyboard I posted :D
(http://i.imgur.com/mHU2uP5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dJGkiqB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NoTylKn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8yYlHGm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ExgaXtX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xZJP11o.jpg)
Post by: njbair on Sun, 03 April 2016, 20:19:21
Clean up this puppy this weekend: Focus FK-3001, SKCM WhiteThat's a cool board, with a built in calculator.
khronokrator and Chryos and I have been chatting about this board among other things like khronokrator's FK-9000 in my Great Finds thread for it. Ended up getting the keyboard I posted :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/mHU2uP5.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dJGkiqB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NoTylKn.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8yYlHGm.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExgaXtX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xZJP11o.jpg)
I think old Alps boards generally have a lot more personality than old Cherry boards, and I think it's where a lot of the innovation happened. The only old Cherry boards with similar personality are the 1800 variants (Dolch, SkiData).
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 03 April 2016, 20:29:32
Clean up this puppy this weekend: Focus FK-3001, SKCM WhiteThat's a cool board, with a built in calculator.
khronokrator and Chryos and I have been chatting about this board among other things like khronokrator's FK-9000 in my Great Finds thread for it. Ended up getting the keyboard I posted :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/mHU2uP5.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dJGkiqB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NoTylKn.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8yYlHGm.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExgaXtX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xZJP11o.jpg)
I think old Alps boards generally have a lot more personality than old Cherry boards, and I think it's where a lot of the innovation happened. The only old Cherry boards with similar personality are the 1800 variants (Dolch, SkiData).
Agreed. The solar panel on the 3001 really makes it unique. Cherry never really tried to innovate or experiment.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sun, 03 April 2016, 20:50:40
Really happy with these caps, for $10 cant go wrong. They make using the KBP V60 so much better. Going to mod the plate so i can use ISO left shift and HHKB right shift since the PCB has support for them both.
(http://i.imgur.com/qKdBL8G.jpg)
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 04 April 2016, 02:09:28
Also does the calculator work on that board Mattr?
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:24:07
Alps + PBT = :D
Really happy with these caps, for $10 cant go wrong. They make using the KBP V60 so much better. Going to mod the plate so i can use ISO left shift and HHKB right shift since the PCB has support for them both.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qKdBL8G.jpg)
Is that the Alps Party board? That is an interesting one.
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:26:49
(http://i.imgur.com/V6XfilS.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:39:34
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:41:22
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:42:28
Where are those caps from itzmeluigi?
Also does the calculator work on that board Mattr?
Yep. The screen doesn't fully display digits, but that can be diy fixed. The point is that it functions, funnily enough so does the solar panel!
Now we have proof that the hype is not realShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/V6XfilS.jpg)
Finally, things are starting to get back to normal.
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:49:39
Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:56:28
I didn't mean to chase after it but after seeing it was hovering around $77 with 10 minutes on the clock I decided to put down $130 to "help out" the seller. At last, I can finally decide what to put into my Monarch - orange, blue, or green. Whatever not making it will go into future KBP with Tex aluminum case ^-^Just wait until you feel them...
Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 04 April 2016, 20:57:51
Not to mention the fact they are made a long time ago means they are far more rare than anything today.
The stuff made a long time ago was built to last :cool:
Post by: E3E on Mon, 04 April 2016, 21:00:27
Whoops, it was accidentally set to private. Should be good now.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 April 2016, 21:07:18
Post by: E3E on Mon, 04 April 2016, 21:12:02
Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Tell that to the people who pay loads for Cherry stuff. :P
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 04 April 2016, 21:58:57
Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Tell that to the people who pay loads for Cherry stuff. :P
I mean, everyone can appreciate a nice set of OG Cherry doubleshots. I would love to have Cherry profile for Alps - its my favorite. I know it exist on a certain fame board, but otherwise no.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 04 April 2016, 22:21:09
Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Tell that to the people who pay loads for Cherry stuff. :P
I mean, everyone can appreciate a nice set of OG Cherry doubleshots. I would love to have Cherry profile for Alps - its my favorite. I know it exist on a certain fame board, but otherwise no.
I actually prefer the Alps Electric profile, but I'm biased.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 04 April 2016, 22:24:12
Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Tell that to the people who pay loads for Cherry stuff. :P
I mean, everyone can appreciate a nice set of OG Cherry doubleshots. I would love to have Cherry profile for Alps - its my favorite. I know it exist on a certain fame board, but otherwise no.
I actually prefer the Alps Electric profile, but I'm biased.
Next best. Isn't that just 'OEM profile?'
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 April 2016, 22:25:15
No. Cf. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550
Post by: E3E on Mon, 04 April 2016, 22:49:12
> Isn't that just 'OEM profile?
No. Cf. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550
I've seen these a bunch, but I had no idea you created them yourself. Did you get the acrylic mounts made somewhere or do you have a workshop for all that kind of stuff? Looks really well-made.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 04 April 2016, 22:51:46
Post by: chyros on Tue, 05 April 2016, 02:41:01
If not exactly the it is very close. I prefer it too actually.Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Tell that to the people who pay loads for Cherry stuff. :P
I mean, everyone can appreciate a nice set of OG Cherry doubleshots. I would love to have Cherry profile for Alps - its my favorite. I know it exist on a certain fame board, but otherwise no.
I actually prefer the Alps Electric profile, but I'm biased.
Next best. Isn't that just 'OEM profile?'
MX blue and SKCM blue isn't even a comparison, the Alps are so much better in so many ways it's no wonder Cherry sold comparatively **** all in the late 80s :P .
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 15 April 2016, 07:53:44
Alps + PBT = :D
Really happy with these caps, for $10 cant go wrong. They make using the KBP V60 so much better. Going to mod the plate so i can use ISO left shift and HHKB right shift since the PCB has support for them both.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qKdBL8G.jpg)
i'm in love with those caps!!! i need more of this in my life!
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 15 April 2016, 13:22:10
If not exactly the it is very close. I prefer it too actually.Now we can finally see the real value of these switches. For something that is roughly 3 decades old the price has been ridiculous.
Tell that to the people who pay loads for Cherry stuff. :P
I mean, everyone can appreciate a nice set of OG Cherry doubleshots. I would love to have Cherry profile for Alps - its my favorite. I know it exist on a certain fame board, but otherwise no.
I actually prefer the Alps Electric profile, but I'm biased.
Next best. Isn't that just 'OEM profile?'
MX blue and SKCM blue isn't even a comparison, the Alps are so much better in so many ways it's no wonder Cherry sold comparatively **** all in the late 80s :P .
Yea. I even prefer SKCM White to MX Blue. I just wish the SKCM Blue prices were a bit lower of course.
Post by: GooNyang on Sun, 17 April 2016, 17:06:32
Could you help me identify this alps (not sure if its clone or alps) switch?
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1563/26490667905_4334dab292_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GmTADx)IMG_1220 (https://flic.kr/p/GmTADx) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1483/26490670735_b955e18397_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GmTBuk)IMG_1209 (https://flic.kr/p/GmTBuk) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1524/26217828540_38f84c7c54_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FWMe1y)IMG_1215 (https://flic.kr/p/FWMe1y) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/26464744776_eb44b698c6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GjAJB3)IMG_1219 (https://flic.kr/p/GjAJB3) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1717/26217828090_88ccba7295_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FWMdSN)IMG_1217 (https://flic.kr/p/FWMdSN) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
Seems like white alps but it doesnt feel clicky. It feels linear and there was no tactile/clicky leaf. HELPPP and Thanks!
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1483/26490670735_b955e18397_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GmTBuk)IMG_1209 (https://flic.kr/p/GmTBuk) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1524/26217828540_38f84c7c54_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FWMe1y)IMG_1215 (https://flic.kr/p/FWMe1y) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/26464744776_eb44b698c6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GjAJB3)IMG_1219 (https://flic.kr/p/GjAJB3) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1717/26217828090_88ccba7295_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FWMdSN)IMG_1217 (https://flic.kr/p/FWMdSN) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
Seems like white alps but it doesnt feel clicky. It feels linear and there was no tactile/clicky leaf. HELPPP and Thanks!
Post by: chyros on Sun, 17 April 2016, 17:58:18
If there is no tactile or click leaf it must indeed be linear, however the upper shell is missing the LED hole. That's unprecedented for Alps.
Could you make a clear shot showing the lettering and numbering on the top shell? That should help quite a lot in determining if it's genuine. Some Alps clones were actually made using discarded, genuine Alps shells, but had incomplete numbering.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 17 April 2016, 18:00:55
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image
Not sure if this is the right thread but I just got a MacKey SKB-102MJ from Blaise170's ebay and I cannot identify the switch :eek:
Could you help me identify this alps (not sure if its clone or alps) switch?(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1563/26490667905_4334dab292_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GmTADx)IMG_1220 (https://flic.kr/p/GmTADx) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1483/26490670735_b955e18397_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GmTBuk)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1524/26217828540_38f84c7c54_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FWMe1y)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1568/26464744776_eb44b698c6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GjAJB3)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1717/26217828090_88ccba7295_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FWMdSN)
Seems like white alps but it doesnt feel clicky. It feels linear and there was no tactile/clicky leaf. HELPPP and Thanks!
Cool board. Those are genuine Alps. SKCL Cream then? It should have a cut out like this: http://i.imgur.com/Q7wvXUm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Q7wvXUm.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 17 April 2016, 18:01:40
Cool board. Those are genuine Alps. SKCL Cream then? Does it have a cut out in the case? Like this: http://i.imgur.com/Q7wvXUm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Q7wvXUm.jpg)
Nah, linear cream has LED cut-outs.
I think it's possible that the previous (before Blaise) owner linear modded the keyboard and removed the leaves before it was sold. I wouldn't be surprised.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 17 April 2016, 18:03:06
Look genuine to me - proper complicated switchplate, slits and long tabs.
If there is no tactile or click leaf it must indeed be linear, however the upper shell is missing the LED hole. That's unprecedented for Alps.
Could you make a clear shot showing the lettering and numbering on the top shell? That should help quite a lot in determining if it's genuine. Some Alps clones were actually made using discarded, genuine Alps shells, but had incomplete numbering.
Wow, didn't know about clones doing that! It also has a complicated switch plate.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 17 April 2016, 18:03:52
Cool board. Those are genuine Alps. SKCL Cream then? Does it have a cut out in the case? Like this: http://i.imgur.com/Q7wvXUm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Q7wvXUm.jpg)
Nah, linear cream has LED cut-outs.
I think it's possible that the previous (before Blaise) owner linear modded the keyboard and removed the leaves before it was sold. I wouldn't be surprised.
Looks that way. Or weird ass clones like what Chyros said.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 17 April 2016, 18:23:35
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 17 April 2016, 19:24:17
Then again, StrongMan (almost certainly that keyboard's OEM) did sometimes like to change between ALPS variants for no obvious reason...
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 17 April 2016, 22:50:31
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 17 April 2016, 23:02:47
Hi, sorry I haven't had a chance to reply to your eBay message yet. I honestly have no idea what switches they are. It's possible that it might be a simplified Alps switch that hasn't been documented, since Strong Man typically used Alps SKBL/SKBM. As far as I know, Alps SKBL didn't have the LED cutouts, which also fits the description.
Well this stirs the pot. SKBM/SKBL isn't talked about much. One thing I noticed is that the slider (maybe its the pic but) looks like a off white, but not a cream either. That's points to SKBL a bit. The other thing is that it uses a complicated switchplate so wouldn't it make it a SKCM/SKCL?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 18 April 2016, 02:33:16
Post by: GooNyang on Mon, 18 April 2016, 17:56:02
Look genuine to me - proper complicated switchplate, slits and long tabs.
If there is no tactile or click leaf it must indeed be linear, however the upper shell is missing the LED hole. That's unprecedented for Alps.
Could you make a clear shot showing the lettering and numbering on the top shell? That should help quite a lot in determining if it's genuine. Some Alps clones were actually made using discarded, genuine Alps shells, but had incomplete numbering.
Yes. Sorry for the late reply. Here are some images. Not sure if they are clear enough to see but here they are :)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1679/26419906762_53fa63a119_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GfCVPQ)IMG_1225 (https://flic.kr/p/GfCVPQ) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1513/26446136021_985a6ffe95_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GhXmSr)IMG_1226 (https://flic.kr/p/GhXmSr) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1513/26446136021_985a6ffe95_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GhXmSr)IMG_1226 (https://flic.kr/p/GhXmSr) by GooNyang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141181257@N06/), on Flickr
There are no ALPS logo but there seems to be weird one digit number with a letter upside-down on the bottom left.
Also, the keyboard chatters like crazy with my imate adb converter while my apple standard keyboard has no issue.
Hi, sorry I haven't had a chance to reply to your eBay message yet. I honestly have no idea what switches they are. It's possible that it might be a simplified Alps switch that hasn't been documented, since Strong Man typically used Alps SKBL/SKBM. As far as I know, Alps SKBL didn't have the LED cutouts, which also fits the description.
Well this stirs the pot. SKBM/SKBL isn't talked about much. One thing I noticed is that the slider (maybe its the pic but) looks like a off white, but not a cream either. That's points to SKBL a bit. The other thing is that it uses a complicated switchplate so wouldn't it make it a SKCM/SKCL?
Yes you are correct, the sliders do not appear to be cream color; they are more white.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 18 April 2016, 18:43:08
Post by: romevi on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:10:01
Post by: chyros on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:14:49
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!Haha yeah they're my two favourite types of tactile switches too xD . Welcome to the club ;) .
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:16:30
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
Welcome my friend! There are many more tasty Alps switches like SKCL Green or SKCM Blue. SKCM Orange is a great first switch. My first was SKCM Black :confused: Plus you have some of the best Alps caps on that M0116. I wonder if we could convert Demik lol. He has never tried Alps in any shape or form.
Post by: romevi on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:18:40
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
Welcome my friend! There are many more tasty Alps switches like SKCL Green or SKCM Blue. SKCM Orange is a great first switch. My first was SKCM Black :confused: Plus you have some of the best Alps caps on that M0116. I wonder if we could convert Demik lol. He has never tried Alps in any shape or form.
Green and Blue are next on my hit list!
The M0116 I chose for the cap selection as well. Mad thanks to xveamvx.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:43:31
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
Welcome my friend! There are many more tasty Alps switches like SKCL Green or SKCM Blue. SKCM Orange is a great first switch. My first was SKCM Black :confused: Plus you have some of the best Alps caps on that M0116. I wonder if we could convert Demik lol. He has never tried Alps in any shape or form.
Green and Blue are next on my hit list!
The M0116 I chose for the cap selection as well. Mad thanks to xveamvx.
I have a switch tester I could do a tour of soon with a TON of Alps. SKCM White, Blue, Cream Damp, White Damp, Orange, Salmon, Amber, SKCL Green and Yellow, Matias Click, and a XM Clone.
I'd be happy to send it around sometime soon. I have some Tai Hao Dolch doubleshots on it, so the caps aren't crap.
Post by: StormyMonday on Mon, 18 April 2016, 21:13:17
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
No squishy boobs, but satisfying, none the less, eh? ;D
Post by: GooNyang on Mon, 18 April 2016, 22:18:20
The mould numbering appears to be incomplete on those. In fact, they look just like those from Type III Alps clones. Those have a simplified contact design, though. That said, I'm doubting these are genuine Alps.
damn. Thank you for answering my question (btw I love watching you review videos with vintage alps keyboard!) :thumb:
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
I love my orange alps. My personal favorite all time (prefer them over green and yellow alps), I love tactile switches! My next goal is to find brown alps board (which is almost impossible I heard. :confused:)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 18 April 2016, 22:26:22
The mould numbering appears to be incomplete on those. In fact, they look just like those from Type III Alps clones. Those have a simplified contact design, though. That said, I'm doubting these are genuine Alps.
Yeah, but these have actual complicated contact plates, which is strange! I don't think I've seen clones with that, but I might not have been to thorough in reading up on the different clones.
I love my orange alps. My personal favorite all time (prefer them over green and yellow alps), I love tactile switches! My next goal is to find brown alps board (which is almost impossible I heard. :confused:)
Orange Alps are pretty nice. Out of the most common switches, my favorites are SKCM Blue, SKCL Green, and SKCM Orange. Brown tactile Alps are not hard to find (remember there is brown linear as well, which are a lot harder to find), but only because of the seeming abundance of IBM 5140 luggable computers that ALWAYS have them. Otherwise, they would be almost as rare as tactile green and linear brown, I'd say.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 18 April 2016, 22:54:31
The mould numbering appears to be incomplete on those. In fact, they look just like those from Type III Alps clones. Those have a simplified contact design, though. That said, I'm doubting these are genuine Alps.
Yeah, but these have actual complicated contact plates, which is strange! I don't think I've seen clones with that, but I might not have been to thorough in reading up on the different clones.I love my orange alps. My personal favorite all time (prefer them over green and yellow alps), I love tactile switches! My next goal is to find brown alps board (which is almost impossible I heard. :confused:)
Yea, those don't look simple to me! Who knows with clones, there are so many :confused:
Orange Alps are pretty nice. Out of the most common switches, my favorites are SKCM Blue, SKCL Green, and SKCM Orange. Brown tactile Alps are not hard to find (remember there is brown linear as well, which are a lot harder to find), but only because of the seeming abundance of IBM 5140 luggable computers that ALWAYS have them. Otherwise, they would be almost as rare as tactile green and linear brown, I'd say.
Yea, those don't look simple to me! I still have my money on them being genuine Alps at least, I have never heard of a clone replicating a complicated switch plate :confused:
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 18 April 2016, 23:10:12
Started from the SKCL Lock patent (https://goo.gl/ikq4pY) and followed the trail.
Findings:
Clicky SKCM: https://goo.gl/NGbOzq
Simplified/clone: https://goo.gl/mNXLlr
SKFR? https://goo.gl/0MXf3R
Acer's Alps clone: https://goo.gl/j6P0Yp
And for fun Key Tronic's early capacitive switch: https://goo.gl/q9Hz4g
(http://i.imgur.com/sEoVO30.png)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 19 April 2016, 00:43:15
So I went patent hunting.
Started from the SKCL Lock patent (https://goo.gl/ikq4pY) and followed the trail.
Findings:
Clicky SKCM: https://goo.gl/NGbOzq
Simplified/clone: https://goo.gl/mNXLlr
SKFR? https://goo.gl/0MXf3R
Acer's Alps clone: https://goo.gl/j6P0Yp
And for fun Key Tronic's early capacitive switch: https://goo.gl/q9Hz4gShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/sEoVO30.png)
Wow this looks so good. I love seeing patent drawings.
EDIT: Should've just read the patent, lol.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 19 April 2016, 03:06:44
https://www.google.com/patents/US4613737A
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 04:19:43
So I went patent hunting.
Started from the SKCL Lock patent (https://goo.gl/ikq4pY) and followed the trail.
Findings:
Clicky SKCM: https://goo.gl/NGbOzq
Simplified/clone: https://goo.gl/mNXLlr
SKFR? https://goo.gl/0MXf3R
Acer's Alps clone: https://goo.gl/j6P0Yp
And for fun Key Tronic's early capacitive switch: https://goo.gl/q9Hz4gShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/sEoVO30.png)
Nice drawing. So old already! (1992)
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 April 2016, 08:22:31
So I went patent hunting.
Started from the SKCL Lock patent (https://goo.gl/ikq4pY) and followed the trail.
Findings:
Clicky SKCM: https://goo.gl/NGbOzq
Simplified/clone: https://goo.gl/mNXLlr
SKFR? https://goo.gl/0MXf3R
Acer's Alps clone: https://goo.gl/j6P0Yp
And for fun Key Tronic's early capacitive switch: https://goo.gl/q9Hz4gShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/sEoVO30.png)
Nice drawing. So old already! (1992)
>1992
>old
;_;
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 08:55:09
So I went patent hunting.
Started from the SKCL Lock patent (https://goo.gl/ikq4pY) and followed the trail.
Findings:
Clicky SKCM: https://goo.gl/NGbOzq
Simplified/clone: https://goo.gl/mNXLlr
SKFR? https://goo.gl/0MXf3R
Acer's Alps clone: https://goo.gl/j6P0Yp
And for fun Key Tronic's early capacitive switch: https://goo.gl/q9Hz4gShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/sEoVO30.png)
Nice drawing. So old already! (1992)
>1992
>old
;_;
For me, it's old. I'm from 1988. What do you consider old then? Altair 8800 with NO keyboard?
Post by: pwade3 on Tue, 19 April 2016, 12:37:21
Post by: GooNyang on Tue, 19 April 2016, 12:47:19
The mould numbering appears to be incomplete on those. In fact, they look just like those from Type III Alps clones. Those have a simplified contact design, though. That said, I'm doubting these are genuine Alps.
Yeah, but these have actual complicated contact plates, which is strange! I don't think I've seen clones with that, but I might not have been to thorough in reading up on the different clones.I love my orange alps. My personal favorite all time (prefer them over green and yellow alps), I love tactile switches! My next goal is to find brown alps board (which is almost impossible I heard. :confused:)
Orange Alps are pretty nice. Out of the most common switches, my favorites are SKCM Blue, SKCL Green, and SKCM Orange. Brown tactile Alps are not hard to find (remember there is brown linear as well, which are a lot harder to find), but only because of the seeming abundance of IBM 5140 luggable computers that ALWAYS have them. Otherwise, they would be almost as rare as tactile green and linear brown, I'd say.
Is it this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AS-IS-Vintage-1986-IBM-PC-Convertible-Model-5140-Luggable-Laptop-Parts-Repair-/291729528659?hash=item43ec6f5753%3Ag%3A9soAAOSwsN9XAxRl&nma=true&si=CkNQnPv3ZaynL5%252Fg5CHDj3E2GZQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Are there any ways to get it working on normal pc??
So I went patent hunting.
Started from the SKCL Lock patent (https://goo.gl/ikq4pY) and followed the trail.
Findings:
Clicky SKCM: https://goo.gl/NGbOzq
Simplified/clone: https://goo.gl/mNXLlr
SKFR? https://goo.gl/0MXf3R
Acer's Alps clone: https://goo.gl/j6P0Yp
And for fun Key Tronic's early capacitive switch: https://goo.gl/q9Hz4gShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/sEoVO30.png)
Please someone make a poster of the patent!! :))
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 19 April 2016, 12:51:27
My alps game isn't very strong, but I've got a board missing some keys. Are there any replacement sets out there that have a bigass enter?
Unfortunately there aren't. You'd have to find a board with a similar layout to swap caps.
The mould numbering appears to be incomplete on those. In fact, they look just like those from Type III Alps clones. Those have a simplified contact design, though. That said, I'm doubting these are genuine Alps.
Yeah, but these have actual complicated contact plates, which is strange! I don't think I've seen clones with that, but I might not have been to thorough in reading up on the different clones.I love my orange alps. My personal favorite all time (prefer them over green and yellow alps), I love tactile switches! My next goal is to find brown alps board (which is almost impossible I heard. :confused:)
Orange Alps are pretty nice. Out of the most common switches, my favorites are SKCM Blue, SKCL Green, and SKCM Orange. Brown tactile Alps are not hard to find (remember there is brown linear as well, which are a lot harder to find), but only because of the seeming abundance of IBM 5140 luggable computers that ALWAYS have them. Otherwise, they would be almost as rare as tactile green and linear brown, I'd say.
Is it this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AS-IS-Vintage-1986-IBM-PC-Convertible-Model-5140-Luggable-Laptop-Parts-Repair-/291729528659?hash=item43ec6f5753%3Ag%3A9soAAOSwsN9XAxRl&nma=true&si=CkNQnPv3ZaynL5%252Fg5CHDj3E2GZQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Are there any ways to get it working on normal pc??
Yes that's the 5140 with SKCM Brown Alps. Unless you get the laptop working again, I don't think it's a good candidate for a standalone keyboard. Either you transplant the switches or you get the PC working. Otherwise it's just a PCB with a plate and switches.
Post by: pwade3 on Tue, 19 April 2016, 12:56:59
My alps game isn't very strong, but I've got a board missing some keys. Are there any replacement sets out there that have a bigass enter?
Unfortunately there aren't. You'd have to find a board with a similar layout to swap caps.
Thanks. That's a bummer though, looks like this guy will require significantly more elbow grease as well too then. :-\
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 19 April 2016, 13:17:55
Post by: pwade3 on Tue, 19 April 2016, 13:19:52
Alps bigass Enter shouldn't be hard to find. Many (most?) of the mid-late-1980s-early-1990s boards had them. Modern Enters are the difficult ones.
I've got the enter key, it's the fact that the keys are a bit yellowed that complicates things.
Post by: Khers on Tue, 19 April 2016, 13:21:46
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 14:17:39
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
Can you compare the Alps with the Topre? What's so nice about Alps compared to the One True Cup Rubber SwitchTM :P (just joking)
Post by: Keycap on Tue, 19 April 2016, 14:26:37
Welcome my friend! There are many more tasty Alps switches like SKCL Green or SKCM Blue. SKCM Orange is a great first switch. My first was SKCM Black :confused: Plus you have some of the best Alps caps on that M0116. I wonder if we could convert Demik lol. He has never tried Alps in any shape or form.Come on man, Black Alps aren't that bad. I prefer them to White Alps, strangely enough. I guess I'm a linear and tactile switch fan, but I do like clicky switches.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 19 April 2016, 14:36:15
Welcome my friend! There are many more tasty Alps switches like SKCL Green or SKCM Blue. SKCM Orange is a great first switch. My first was SKCM Black :confused: Plus you have some of the best Alps caps on that M0116. I wonder if we could convert Demik lol. He has never tried Alps in any shape or form.Come on man, Black Alps aren't that bad. I prefer them to White Alps, strangely enough. I guess I'm a linear and tactile switch fan, but I do like clicky switches.
They aren't terrible, but not a great representation of Alps for a first impression.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 April 2016, 14:41:52
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
Can you compare the Alps with the Topre? What's so nice about Alps compared to the One True Cup Rubber SwitchTM :P (just joking)
I'll have to give a more thorough review some time, but for now the M0116 can't be used as I don't have the converter. I can pretend to type on it (all the switches are exceptionally sturdy and smooth), but I plan on harvesting them for a Clueboard, so that's when I'll do my final thoughts! :p
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 14:46:08
I'm an Alps convert. Got my first Alps board today, an M0116 with Orange, and I'm in love. I thought before today Topre was the pinnacle of tactile switched; now I don't know which I like more!
Can you compare the Alps with the Topre? What's so nice about Alps compared to the One True Cup Rubber SwitchTM :P (just joking)
I'll have to give a more thorough review some time, but for now the M0116 can't be used as I don't have the converter. I can pretend to type on it (all the switches are exceptionally sturdy and smooth), but I plan on harvesting them for a Clueboard, so that's when I'll do my final thoughts! :p
Cool! Clueboard sounds promising though I'd probably get a FC660(C).
Post by: E3E on Tue, 19 April 2016, 16:44:56
I'll have to give a more thorough review some time, but for now the M0116 can't be used as I don't have the converter. I can pretend to type on it (all the switches are exceptionally sturdy and smooth), but I plan on harvesting them for a Clueboard, so that's when I'll do my final thoughts! :p
I think a Clueboard sounds like an excellent candidate to start your Alps journey (and a fantastic endgame choice as well; I know a lot of people like FC660s).
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 16:59:59
I'll have to give a more thorough review some time, but for now the M0116 can't be used as I don't have the converter. I can pretend to type on it (all the switches are exceptionally sturdy and smooth), but I plan on harvesting them for a Clueboard, so that's when I'll do my final thoughts! :p
I think a Clueboard sounds like an excellent candidate to start your Alps journey (and a fantastic endgame choice as well; I know a lot of people like FC660s).
The S doesn't come with Alps, or does it?
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:02:28
I'll have to give a more thorough review some time, but for now the M0116 can't be used as I don't have the converter. I can pretend to type on it (all the switches are exceptionally sturdy and smooth), but I plan on harvesting them for a Clueboard, so that's when I'll do my final thoughts! :p
I think a Clueboard sounds like an excellent candidate to start your Alps journey (and a fantastic endgame choice as well; I know a lot of people like FC660s).
The S doesn't come with Alps, or does it?
I think the FC660 is Cherry MX and Topre only, but with skully's Clueboard PCB you can use Alps. Plus, fully programmable!
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:03:56
I'll have to give a more thorough review some time, but for now the M0116 can't be used as I don't have the converter. I can pretend to type on it (all the switches are exceptionally sturdy and smooth), but I plan on harvesting them for a Clueboard, so that's when I'll do my final thoughts! :p
I think a Clueboard sounds like an excellent candidate to start your Alps journey (and a fantastic endgame choice as well; I know a lot of people like FC660s).
The S doesn't come with Alps, or does it?
I think the FC660 is Cherry MX and Topre only, but with skully's Clueboard PCB you can use Alps. Plus, fully programmable!
That's cool, didn't knew that.
So much to find out and to try still... I've only scratched the surface or so it seems.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:15:22
I'll have to give a more thorough review some time, but for now the M0116 can't be used as I don't have the converter. I can pretend to type on it (all the switches are exceptionally sturdy and smooth), but I plan on harvesting them for a Clueboard, so that's when I'll do my final thoughts! :p
I think a Clueboard sounds like an excellent candidate to start your Alps journey (and a fantastic endgame choice as well; I know a lot of people like FC660s).
The S doesn't come with Alps, or does it?
I think the FC660 is Cherry MX and Topre only, but with skully's Clueboard PCB you can use Alps. Plus, fully programmable!
That's cool, didn't knew that.
So much to find out and to try still... I've only scratched the surface or so it seems.
Leave before it's too late! :))
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:17:48
That's cool, didn't knew that.
So much to find out and to try still... I've only scratched the surface or so it seems.
Leave before it's too late! :))
It's too late already. I'm already browsing on classifieds, waiting for a nice deal. I'M LOST! Y U DO THIS GH
Post by: E3E on Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:30:31
As people on DT call it, the Alps Vortex is ferocious and unforgiving! Beware!
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:33:13
I started with blue Alps, and then the second switch I tried was Alps SKCM Orange on an AEK. I've always run along the more difficult to find switches and have stayed away from the most common ones, like SKCM White, Black, and Damped, though I do have those now. The only board-wide switch (switches that aren't just space bar switches) that I don't have is SKCM Cream, and I'm not all that interested in them, but I might go through some NeXT boards to find some eventually.
As people on DT call it, the Alps Vortex is ferocious and unforgiving! Beware!
So Alps is your end-game I suppose? Never into MX / Topre?
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 19 April 2016, 18:37:16
I started with blue Alps, and then the second switch I tried was Alps SKCM Orange on an AEK. I've always run along the more difficult to find switches and have stayed away from the most common ones, like SKCM White, Black, and Damped, though I do have those now. The only board-wide switch (switches that aren't just space bar switches) that I don't have is SKCM Cream, and I'm not all that interested in them, but I might go through some NeXT boards to find some eventually.
As people on DT call it, the Alps Vortex is ferocious and unforgiving! Beware!
I have always found the NeXT boards cool. Black Alps-made Doubleshots. Thicker than their dyesubs I believe.
I started with SKCM Black on a Alps MCL-101, then a V60 Matias Click, AEKII, Zenith Z-150, SGI Granite, then finally my FK-3001. I bought SKCM Oranges to swap my SGI. Kinda of a unique path, but done at the cheaply as possible. Never spent more than $70 on a vintage board. Not bad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 19 April 2016, 19:24:13
They really are just so smooth and have such a pleasant force curve and travel distance. I think my new lust is a brass-bottomed 60% with GMK-thickness ABS caps, SKCL Greens, and an acrylic plate. Sounds like I need to learn CAD...
Are there any really thick ABS ALPs-compatible caps out there? The ones on my Zenith are horribly thin.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 19 April 2016, 19:28:28
It took a while for them to grow on me, but I think SKCL Greens are becoming a top contender for my favorite linear, and I rarely even type on them. My Zenith is sitting to the right of my desk while I've been IBM'ing it up since my USB adapter is at work on my Mini. Every once and a while I reach over and think to myself "damn, probably about time to bring the Mini home and the Zenith to work"Alps themselves made some fairly thick ABS doubleshots. However, Honeywell-calibre Alps caps don't exist AFAIK.
They really are just so smooth and have such a pleasant force curve and travel distance. I think my new lust is a brass-bottomed 60% with GMK-thickness ABS caps, SKCL Greens, and an acrylic plate. Sounds like I need to learn CAD...
Are there any really thick ABS ALPs-compatible caps out there? The ones on my Zenith are horribly thin.
I use my ZKB-2R at work, it's a great work keyboard even despite being linear :D .
Post by: pr0ximity on Tue, 19 April 2016, 19:39:19
Alps themselves made some fairly thick ABS doubleshots. However, Honeywell-calibre Alps caps don't exist AFAIK.
I use my ZKB-2R at work, it's a great work keyboard even despite being linear :D .
Yeah Honeywell-thickness would be extreme, GMK is a nice weight to me. I suppose SP's DCS is the modern standard then. Pity, maybe JTK will venture into ANSI ALPs territory in the future.
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 19 April 2016, 19:47:16
(http://i.imgur.com/ivgULup.jpg)
Some pics of the bottoms from Parak:
(http://i.imgur.com/nuYxKh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/R8dHw.jpg)
Definitely not as thick as Honeywell caps, or even Alps tee-mount caps, but pretty sturdy.
In general, Alps dyesubs are pretty thick. My favorites are the ones from a couple C.Itoh keyboards.
Here are some pics from HaaTa: https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157663966300963/
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1575/25953518176_08af264e96_h.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1530/25979377625_162e9c4995_h.jpg)
The ones from Apple keyboards are also great though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 19 April 2016, 20:44:11
The thickest ABS “standard mount” Alps keycaps are the sculpted spherical ones from the mid-80s.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ivgULup.jpg)
Some pics of the bottoms from Parak:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nuYxKh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/R8dHw.jpg)
Definitely not as thick as Honeywell caps, or even Alps tee-mount caps, but pretty sturdy.
In general, Alps dyesubs are pretty thick. My favorites are the ones from a couple C.Itoh keyboards.
Here are some pics from HaaTa: https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157663966300963/Show Image(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1575/25953518176_08af264e96_h.jpg)Show Image(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1530/25979377625_162e9c4995_h.jpg)
The ones from Apple keyboards are also great though.
Ah, from old Canon typewriters. Those are cool :)
Here is a NeXT key
(http://i.imgur.com/16LJU.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 19 April 2016, 23:36:54
It took a while for them to grow on me, but I think SKCL Greens are becoming a top contender for my favorite linear, and I rarely even type on them. My Zenith is sitting to the right of my desk while I've been IBM'ing it up since my USB adapter is at work on my Mini. Every once and a while I reach over and think to myself "damn, probably about time to bring the Mini home and the Zenith to work"
They really are just so smooth and have such a pleasant force curve and travel distance. I think my new lust is a brass-bottomed 60% with GMK-thickness ABS caps, SKCL Greens, and an acrylic plate. Sounds like I need to learn CAD...
Are there any really thick ABS ALPs-compatible caps out there? The ones on my Zenith are horribly thin.
If you want the closest equivalent to GMK caps in the Alps world, try to find a later model FAME TH-5539, as these have some very convincing Cherry profile/clone key caps that look pretty much just like Cherry doubleshots. Only thing is that they come with a BAE and short right shift, so you might have to work some magic if you want to use ANSI with those caps.
Alps-made doubleshots and PBT are fine caps though, and I really enjoy typing on either example. As Mattr shows, they actually are quite thick, it's just that they do not have uniform thicknesses for each side so some sides can be somewhat thin while others are quite thick. I measured the DS caps with a caliper and compared them to GMK and they're very close aside from the thin side of the cap.
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 20 April 2016, 04:34:30
Here is a NeXT keyShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/16LJU.jpg)
Now THAT is a VERY Thick key! It must sound dead quiet or low pitched. Do you have a board with the whole set or the original NeXT keyboard?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 20 April 2016, 04:45:45
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 20 April 2016, 06:32:20
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 20 April 2016, 06:49:45
Party On!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798?)
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 13:35:23
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 13:43:36
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 18:59:12
Bought 4x IBM 5140's. I will be building up a Leeku ALPhas L3 pcb in AEK layout for my LZ-GH soon. Can't wait to get in the PCB's :thumb:
How? Did you just buy the boards? How much was it?
It had to happen.
Party On!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798?)
Oh, here we go. This is gonna be a fun ride ;)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 19:08:13
Post by: E3E on Wed, 20 April 2016, 20:29:31
It had to happen.
Party On!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798?)
Oh, here we go. This is gonna be a fun ride ;)
Yeeeeah, noooo.
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 20 April 2016, 20:41:58
Bought 4x IBM 5140's. I will be building up a Leeku ALPhas L3 pcb in AEK layout for my LZ-GH soon. Can't wait to get in the PCB's :thumb:How? Did you just buy the boards? How much was it?
all from eBay seller. Prices ranged from $20-65 each :) :thumb:
I saw on reddit you recently picked up a Sharp typewriter. How did it turn out? Delicious Green Alps or no?
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 20:43:15
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 20:46:52
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 20 April 2016, 21:57:20
I love the texture and feel of them. They are also dyesub too! I recommend these as a great cheap set of ANSI alps caps.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 22:01:55
Post by: Hak Foo on Wed, 20 April 2016, 22:59:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 21 April 2016, 00:30:29
It had to happen.
Party On!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/leading-edge-keyboard-dc-2014-In-Original-Box-/301934966798?)
Oh, here we go. This is gonna be a fun ride ;)
Yeeeeah, noooo.
:))
Funny thing too, I was watching Scream last night, and noticed the same typewriter at the school just before this guy gets slayed :thumb:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pLrJ5eq.png)
Nice find. Not all those use SKCM's btw. I've searched craigslist for these and have come across Green SKCC's and Tactile SMK's (inverse cross mount).
Bought 4x IBM 5140's. I will be building up a Leeku ALPhas L3 pcb in AEK layout for my LZ-GH soon. Can't wait to get in the PCB's :thumb:How? Did you just buy the boards? How much was it?
all from eBay seller. Prices ranged from $20-65 each :) :thumb:
Nice!
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 21 April 2016, 00:34:18
(http://i.imgur.com/9hAYMSH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CSSqHBn.jpg)
Bonus PC picture:
(http://i.imgur.com/f4f2jod.jpg)
Post by: frogthejam19 on Thu, 21 April 2016, 20:38:10
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 21 April 2016, 20:58:40
Post by: rand77 on Fri, 22 April 2016, 02:49:48
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 April 2016, 03:18:54
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 22 April 2016, 09:22:07
Post by: njbair on Fri, 22 April 2016, 09:43:07
Are they salmons? The white balance seems a bit off in the picture? Nice board though :) .
Looks like they might be Amber.They're salmon. He cross-posted this from the Alps Party thread. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75491.msg2148260.msg#2148260
Post by: rand77 on Fri, 22 April 2016, 09:59:27
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 April 2016, 10:04:09
Post by: Touch_It on Fri, 22 April 2016, 12:24:36
Post by: guster11 on Fri, 22 April 2016, 13:10:48
Bought 4x IBM 5140's. I will be building up a Leeku ALPhas L3 pcb in AEK layout for my LZ-GH soon. Can't wait to get in the PCB's :thumb:How? Did you just buy the boards? How much was it?
all from eBay seller. Prices ranged from $20-65 each :) :thumb:
I saw on reddit you recently picked up a Sharp typewriter. How did it turn out? Delicious Green Alps or no?
I asked the seller first to confirm, but yes. 67 green alps for $25 shipped :)
Will need more parts to make a 60%
What type of old typewritters have alps switches? I'll have to keep an eye out for them clearly at that price. Dying to get some green alps too, that's a great buy
Post by: sacratoy on Fri, 22 April 2016, 14:36:04
I love my Omnikey 102.
Post by: guster11 on Fri, 22 April 2016, 17:11:58
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HyQRft8l.jpg)
I love my Omnikey 102.
Northgate keyboards are honestly the best keyboards I ever owned, I really regret selling my mint omnikey ultra. I've never has a 102 though, what's that touch button fucntion row like?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 April 2016, 17:16:00
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HyQRft8l.jpg)
I love my Omnikey 102.
Northgate keyboards are honestly the best keyboards I ever owned, I really regret selling my mint omnikey ultra. I've never has a 102 though, what's that touch button fucntion row like?
I think that is just a label for people who need to jot down what the function keys do for particular programs or something.
Post by: guster11 on Fri, 22 April 2016, 17:21:43
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HyQRft8l.jpg)
I love my Omnikey 102.
Northgate keyboards are honestly the best keyboards I ever owned, I really regret selling my mint omnikey ultra. I've never has a 102 though, what's that touch button fucntion row like?
I think that is just a label for people who need to jot down what the function keys do for particular programs or something.
haha wow I always though those were the old school plastic cover push buttons....couldn't have been more wrong
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 April 2016, 17:23:45
haha wow I always though those were the old school plastic cover push buttons....couldn't have been more wrong
Yeah, you made me have to do a double-take on that and look up some info, haha. It does seem that it's just a label though, but I totally see how you might think that.
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 22 April 2016, 18:05:20
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 24 April 2016, 00:19:50
BTW the reason I didn't just buy a AEK is because of the changing of the home row bumps to D/K. It always screwed me up on my old AEKII. Moving the keycaps around just aggravated me for whatever reason.
Post by: romevi on Sun, 24 April 2016, 00:27:32
All this talk of SKCM Orange made me bring out my SGI Granite, which I swapped w/ SKCM Orange jacked from a AEK a while back. Forgot how good these were. As a result I cleaned all the switches today. Very tedious but worth it. Thinking about it, I have cleaned about 400 Alps switches at this point :eek:
BTW the reason I didn't just buy a AEK is because of the changing of the home row bumps to D/K. It always screwed me up on my old AEKII. Moving the keycaps around just aggravated me for whatever reason.
My M0116 was the first time I had homing bumps on D and K. Had no idea that was a thing, and took me a while to get adjusted.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 24 April 2016, 01:11:01
All this talk of SKCM Orange made me bring out my SGI Granite, which I swapped w/ SKCM Orange jacked from a AEK a while back. Forgot how good these were. As a result I cleaned all the switches today. Very tedious but worth it. Thinking about it, I have cleaned about 400 Alps switches at this point :eek:
BTW the reason I didn't just buy a AEK is because of the changing of the home row bumps to D/K. It always screwed me up on my old AEKII. Moving the keycaps around just aggravated me for whatever reason.
My M0116 was the first time I had homing bumps on D and K. Had no idea that was a thing, and took me a while to get adjusted.
I eventually got adjusted to my old AEKII as well, but my typing speed was still affected.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 24 April 2016, 15:29:22
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 24 April 2016, 17:56:49
Btw you guys are going to see something pretty cool in two weeks or so, I think :D .
Yay! Always look forward to your videos.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 24 April 2016, 17:58:24
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 24 April 2016, 17:59:43
Post by: chyros on Sun, 24 April 2016, 19:03:59
Haha no, way more unique than that xD ;) .Btw you guys are going to see something pretty cool in two weeks or so, I think :D .
is is a blue alps model m clone? I want one.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 24 April 2016, 19:18:34
Haha no, way more unique than that xD ;) .Btw you guys are going to see something pretty cool in two weeks or so, I think :D .
is is a blue alps model m clone? I want one.
Ooo More than the Zenith SWA? That was was hella weird.
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 24 April 2016, 19:33:28
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 24 April 2016, 21:00:29
It's rumored that the interior shell of the keyboard is stuffed with artisans and clacks.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 24 April 2016, 21:33:33
MX Compatible IBM Buckling ALPS.
It's rumored that the interior shell of the keyboard is stuffed with artisans and clacks.
Hahaha. Too good.
I think this board might have a little fame behind it, if you ask me.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 24 April 2016, 22:34:05
Post by: chyros on Sun, 24 April 2016, 23:47:35
Oh man, you gotta show us the video now chyros if its way more unique than a blue alps IBM clone.Well you'll see it in two weeks ;) . Though next week's video will also be Alps-oriented :) .
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 24 April 2016, 23:52:26
I am still salty that I got outbid on the P70 auction :mad:
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 24 April 2016, 23:56:03
Better not be plate spring alps....
I am still salty that I got outbid on the P70 auction :mad:
All of these flavors, and you chose not to be Cherry.
Post by: frogthejam19 on Mon, 25 April 2016, 15:28:56
First blue alps board just came. I never really typed with the white alps board i sold so this feels a little weird. Will take some time to get an impression. Now i need to find some replacement caps cause stock is horrid. Anyone have some Aek caps i can buy or willing to give away?
Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:14:37
Post by: romevi on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:34:26
Post by: Moistgun on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:41:40
How hard would it be to cut a Focus plate? Thinking of using Focus or Monterrey caps on my hasu 64, and I guess I'd have to cut the original plate.
I don't know if it would be any more difficult than the AEK I cut down.
Just use a combo square to make a straight line and measure what you wan to cut.
Try your best to cut straight. Use a dremel, some safety glasses, maybe respiration.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 25 April 2016, 22:45:24
IC is now live (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81608.0)
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:24:45
Post by: need on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:35:17
Got this for the key caps, but I might get a Hasu ADB converter to actually use the thing :thumb: First time trying salmon alps :-*Really great condition you got right there :thumb:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/z4SSJki.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/OCEe2g9.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:38:05
First time trying salmon alps
Those are probably orange. "Salmon" has a distinct pink cast to it. What is the serial number?
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:46:33
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 April 2016, 16:21:55
They aren't what google tells me are orange alps.
None of the ones I have had are particularly vivid, in fact they have generally been rather dull, but there has always been a distinct pinkish tone in the salmons.
But, of course, consistency was never a top priority there ....
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 26 April 2016, 18:24:37
They aren't what google tells me are orange alps.
None of the ones I have had are particularly vivid, in fact they have generally been rather dull, but there has always been a distinct pinkish tone in the salmons.
But, of course, consistency was never a top priority there ....
Those are SKCM Salmon for sure.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 26 April 2016, 18:26:13
They aren't what google tells me are orange alps.
None of the ones I have had are particularly vivid, in fact they have generally been rather dull, but there has always been a distinct pinkish tone in the salmons.
But, of course, consistency was never a top priority there ....
Those are SKCM Salmon for sure.
Does the Orange have a little fade? I guess what I'm wondering if there's any way to confuse the two stems based on eyes alone. I have Orange, but in some lights it comes off a bit faded.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 26 April 2016, 18:27:05
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 26 April 2016, 21:27:46
Agreed. Here is a SKCM Orange from my swapped SGI. Much darker.
They aren't what google tells me are orange alps.
None of the ones I have had are particularly vivid, in fact they have generally been rather dull, but there has always been a distinct pinkish tone in the salmons.
But, of course, consistency was never a top priority there ....
Those are SKCM Salmon for sure.
Does the Orange have a little fade? I guess what I'm wondering if there's any way to confuse the two stems based on eyes alone. I have Orange, but in some lights it comes off a bit faded.
When I saw orange in real life before, they were much darker than the salmons that I have. Even if they were faded, I think the difference would be obvious.
(http://i.imgur.com/rEmpGi7.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 27 April 2016, 03:24:25
First time trying salmon alps
Those are probably orange. "Salmon" has a distinct pink cast to it. What is the serial number?Definitely “salmon”.
If you take a switch apart, you’ll find a short white switchplate inside.
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 27 April 2016, 14:52:47
Got this for the key caps, but I might get a Hasu ADB converter to actually use the thing :thumb: First time trying salmon alps :-*Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/z4SSJki.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/OCEe2g9.jpg)
Man, that is in killer shape, plus it has something other than creams.
Mind sharing where you got it and what you paid?
Post by: romevi on Wed, 27 April 2016, 14:54:15
Agreed. Here is a SKCM Orange from my swapped SGI. Much darker.
They aren't what google tells me are orange alps.
None of the ones I have had are particularly vivid, in fact they have generally been rather dull, but there has always been a distinct pinkish tone in the salmons.
But, of course, consistency was never a top priority there ....
Those are SKCM Salmon for sure.
Does the Orange have a little fade? I guess what I'm wondering if there's any way to confuse the two stems based on eyes alone. I have Orange, but in some lights it comes off a bit faded.
When I saw orange in real life before, they were much darker than the salmons that I have. Even if they were faded, I think the difference would be obvious.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rEmpGi7.jpg)
Yeah, I guess in the pic mine totally comes out dark. :))
[attach=1]
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 27 April 2016, 14:55:24
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 27 April 2016, 15:53:30
(http://i.imgur.com/jwfJr98.jpg)
Post by: rpeterclark on Wed, 27 April 2016, 16:58:12
Older than most members here I'd think, yet nary a scratch to be found. Someone loved this board.
(http://i.imgur.com/qGhJbKh.jpg)
SKCM Orange
(http://i.imgur.com/FrHeYCQ.jpg)
Beautiful cable, and dat low serial.
(http://i.imgur.com/WRsPJrm.jpg)
Wish I had an old Mac around for a proper photo shoot!
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 27 April 2016, 17:13:02
Where could I find replacement caps for this thing?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jwfJr98.jpg)
It will probably be really difficult to find replacement Alps JIS caps that fit perfectly on that board.
If your able to find some Alps JIS boards you could mod your Zero like this person has done.
http://www.geocities.jp/wp_gopher/keyboard/filcoxmo.html
http://www.geocities.jp/wp_gopher/keyboard/filcoxmgi.html
http://www.geocities.jp/wp_gopher/keyboard/filcoxmw.html
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 27 April 2016, 18:12:05
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 April 2016, 13:02:58
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 30 April 2016, 15:44:18
I'll just leave this here...are those neon green ALPS you talked about in your topre video?Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 April 2016, 17:33:55
Yes :D .I'll just leave this here...are those neon green ALPS you talked about in your topre video?Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 30 April 2016, 18:06:50
Yes :D .I'll just leave this here...are those neon green ALPS you talked about in your topre video?Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
Eve is going to love this. All his Xerox's.
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 01 May 2016, 10:26:34
Looking forward to the video!
Post by: demik on Sun, 01 May 2016, 11:56:42
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 01 May 2016, 12:05:43
Sooooo how does one go about trying out some alps boards OuO
Buy my keyboards
Post by: demik on Sun, 01 May 2016, 12:12:25
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 01 May 2016, 12:15:02
:fingerscrossed:
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 May 2016, 15:45:51
Sooooo how does one go about trying out some alps boards OuO
Ebay is your friend. Look for cheap nice boards like a FK-2001 or AEK. And make sure they are genuine Alps and not clones.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sun, 01 May 2016, 16:05:07
Sooooo how does one go about trying out some alps boards OuO
I think CPTBadass had a tester board. Beehatch also has some Matias switches, since you two are penpals it might be easy to have her borrow you a few.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 01 May 2016, 16:15:00
CPT has/had a little switch tester I built. I have him permission to resend it to beehatch when he was done with it, not sure where it's at ATM.Sooooo how does one go about trying out some alps boards OuO
I think CPTBadass had a tester board. Beehatch also has some Matias switches, since you two are penpals it might be easy to have her borrow you a few.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 May 2016, 20:34:49
CPT has/had a little switch tester I built. I have him permission to resend it to beehatch when he was done with it, not sure where it's at ATM.Sooooo how does one go about trying out some alps boards OuO
I think CPTBadass had a tester board. Beehatch also has some Matias switches, since you two are penpals it might be easy to have her borrow you a few.
I also have a switch tester.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sun, 01 May 2016, 20:48:35
CPT has/had a little switch tester I built. I have him permission to resend it to beehatch when he was done with it, not sure where it's at ATM.
Still at my place. Keep forgetting to send it to beehatch who asked me like 2 weeks ago. I'm the worst. I'll update you when she has it :(.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 01 May 2016, 21:01:48
NP. I'm not in a hurry.CPT has/had a little switch tester I built. I have him permission to resend it to beehatch when he was done with it, not sure where it's at ATM.
Still at my place. Keep forgetting to send it to beehatch who asked me like 2 weeks ago. I'm the worst. I'll update you when she has it :(.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 02 May 2016, 00:46:16
I'll just leave this here...Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
I counted 146 in this video and they look like bamboo SKCM Green to me, but I can't wait to see how many you really have and if they are pine or not or even perhaps a mix.
I know several parts vendors have SKCMAT and that seems to be one of the only Alps switches that can be found in such a manner, which is weird considering how rare they are. They aren't cheap though.
I wonder if this was a donation! Chyros, you're usually very very frugal with spending, so if you shelled out, like $200+ for these, I'd be VERY surprised, haha.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 02 May 2016, 00:50:30
I'll just leave this here...Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
I counted 146 in this video and they look like bamboo SKCM Green to me, but I can't wait to see how many you really have and if they are pine or not or even perhaps a mix.
I know several parts vendors have SKCMAT and that seems to be one of the only Alps switches that can be found in such a manner, which is weird considering how rare they are. They aren't cheap though.
I wonder if this was a donation! Chyros, you're usually very very frugal with spending, so if you shelled out, like $200+ for these, I'd be VERY surprised, haha.
Really? Do you have a link?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 02 May 2016, 01:53:31
All shall be revealed soon! That said, I had to raise some money for this project xD . I'm nearly in the black again now though :) .I'll just leave this here...Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
I counted 146 in this video and they look like bamboo SKCM Green to me, but I can't wait to see how many you really have and if they are pine or not or even perhaps a mix.
I know several parts vendors have SKCMAT and that seems to be one of the only Alps switches that can be found in such a manner, which is weird considering how rare they are. They aren't cheap though.
I wonder if this was a donation! Chyros, you're usually very very frugal with spending, so if you shelled out, like $200+ for these, I'd be VERY surprised, haha.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 02 May 2016, 02:38:48
I'll just leave this here...Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
I counted 146 in this video and they look like bamboo SKCM Green to me, but I can't wait to see how many you really have and if they are pine or not or even perhaps a mix.
I know several parts vendors have SKCMAT and that seems to be one of the only Alps switches that can be found in such a manner, which is weird considering how rare they are. They aren't cheap though.
I wonder if this was a donation! Chyros, you're usually very very frugal with spending, so if you shelled out, like $200+ for these, I'd be VERY surprised, haha.
Really? Do you have a link?
A search for SKCMAT on google will turn up some results. Go down that rabbit hole and I'm pretty sure you'll find some. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 02 May 2016, 23:35:53
I'll just leave this here...Show Image(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/Chyrosran/8I%20smileys/I8_zpsmkdo4cj9.gif)
I counted 146 in this video and they look like bamboo SKCM Green to me, but I can't wait to see how many you really have and if they are pine or not or even perhaps a mix.
I know several parts vendors have SKCMAT and that seems to be one of the only Alps switches that can be found in such a manner, which is weird considering how rare they are. They aren't cheap though.
I wonder if this was a donation! Chyros, you're usually very very frugal with spending, so if you shelled out, like $200+ for these, I'd be VERY surprised, haha.
Really? Do you have a link?
A search for SKCMAT on google will turn up some results. Go down that rabbit hole and I'm pretty sure you'll find some. :)
Found a site, sent them a request for 5 of 'em ;D
Also ordering from Taobao: 5 SKCL Grey's + some weird blank Alps Electric caps? and 5 White Omron B3G-S's. Was originally going for some more but the shipping got too expensive. Stuff like SKFR or SMK MX Mount's, but I don't care about those nearly as much.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 02 May 2016, 23:37:56
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 02 May 2016, 23:43:57
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 02 May 2016, 23:45:36
All the places I contacted had them out of stock. Looks like I was too late :'(
Huh, my place says they have 45, a different site (that requires a company or something) has like 240 or something. We'll see.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 01:56:56
Post by: chyros on Tue, 03 May 2016, 02:13:16
Post by: Venatorious on Tue, 03 May 2016, 09:44:48
Sent from my ONE E1005 using Tapatalk
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 03 May 2016, 11:35:41
They all come from the same source, which is dry now.
You know they gotta be wondering why they got a bunch of separate orders for those switches.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 03 May 2016, 11:43:12
I actually mentioned to several vendors that there might be a considerable demand for these switches after I'd buy them in order to try and negotiate a better price for them. Then it turned out all the stock figures the vendors list are made-up and in truth only one supplier stocks these.They all come from the same source, which is dry now.
You know they gotta be wondering why they got a bunch of separate orders for those switches.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:26:34
I actually mentioned to several vendors that there might be a considerable demand for these switches after I'd buy them in order to try and negotiate a better price for them. Then it turned out all the stock figures the vendors list are made-up and in truth only one supplier stocks these.They all come from the same source, which is dry now.
You know they gotta be wondering why they got a bunch of separate orders for those switches.
If you find a source, let me know.
Post by: Venatorious on Tue, 03 May 2016, 13:55:15
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 14:00:06
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 18:23:18
I actually mentioned to several vendors that there might be a considerable demand for these switches after I'd buy them in order to try and negotiate a better price for them. Then it turned out all the stock figures the vendors list are made-up and in truth only one supplier stocks these.They all come from the same source, which is dry now.
You know they gotta be wondering why they got a bunch of separate orders for those switches.
I think I found the supplier, that have 59 left from the invoice they sent back. They also want $20 A SWITCH Can you help? I only want 5 of 'em :(
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 20:14:20
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4]
It look the same as Leading Edge DC-3014,especially Caps Lock key.
DC-3014 http://zonam.egloos.com/3413724
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 20:22:01
Does anyone know this board?
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
All I know is I want it :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 20:29:06
Does anyone know this board?
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Nice M8. Alps DS caps and SKCM Blue :thumb:
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 20:46:46
Does anyone know this board?
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
It look the same as Leading Edge DC-3014,especially Caps Lock key.
DC-3014 http://zonam.egloos.com/3413724
Well it appears to be a well engineered product
Post by: StormyMonday on Tue, 03 May 2016, 21:47:08
Does anyone know this board?Well it appears to be a well engineered product
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
It look the same as Leading Edge DC-3014,especially Caps Lock key.
DC-3014 http://zonam.egloos.com/3413724
I second that; it's definitely well engineered! :p
In all seriousness (takes all my strength!), that's a very sweet looking board.
Post by: guster11 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 22:17:30
I liked the orange switches I used a lot in the past but this board felt off, some switches felt sorta sticky like a dirty old rubber dome board. I opened up a few that felt sorta off and they were mostly clean and once reassembled felt the same as before. I noticed however, some switches almost have a click to them, I can't silently actuate them. I haven't opened up those switches yet, but the video below shows the difference in sound. Any ideas on what's going on here?
Post by: E3E on Wed, 04 May 2016, 00:21:13
Does anyone know this board?
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
It look the same as Leading Edge DC-3014,especially Caps Lock key.
DC-3014 http://zonam.egloos.com/3413724
The top and layout remind me of the NTC 6151N, but the bottom is beyond me. Definitely not a DC-3014 though.
Post by: xixihaha2008 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 03:01:44
Does anyone know this board?
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
It look the same as Leading Edge DC-3014,especially Caps Lock key.
DC-3014 http://zonam.egloos.com/3413724
The top and layout remind me of the NTC 6151N, but the bottom is beyond me. Definitely not a DC-3014 though.
The bottom is like IBM Model M style.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 19:23:13
Your going to love it Chyros, knowing your love for Focus stuff :p
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 19:42:38
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 20:24:19
Just won 2 white alps boards off ebay with doubleshot caps for ~25$ each. There is a omnikey 101 and a fk-2001.
Nice mate! That Omnikey is a keeper for sure! Some of the best built Alps boards known to man.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 04 May 2016, 23:52:02
Just won 2 white alps boards off ebay with doubleshot caps for ~25$ each. There is a omnikey 104 and a fk-2001.$25 for an OmniKey is an absolute steal. Congrats!
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 23:56:48
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 00:23:57
got this for 425 shipped with green alps and double shot caps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xCKQLIg.jpg)
$425 or 4.25!?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 05 May 2016, 02:17:06
I have a surprise of my own. (E3E don't spoil it) A rare Focus board is coming in off craigslist ;DOooh, colour me excited :D . I love Focus stuff!
Your going to love it Chyros, knowing your love for Focus stuff :p
Post by: Ogischer on Thu, 05 May 2016, 05:06:21
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81879.0
Post by: qazeqaz on Thu, 05 May 2016, 12:09:40
Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 12:16:06
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 05 May 2016, 12:17:12
I actually mentioned to several vendors that there might be a considerable demand for these switches after I'd buy them in order to try and negotiate a better price for them. Then it turned out all the stock figures the vendors list are made-up and in truth only one supplier stocks these.
MFW the hunt for Neon Green Alps turns into the hunt for IBM 6019284s :))
So I am considering getting an Alps KB in a 60% form factor for the Datamancer wood case. Are there any keysets that are available to purchase? I was thinking of buying a Pok3r for the case but I do not have an Alps KB and I thought it would be neat since I like different switches for different purposes.
Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated.
For modern layouts? The easiest available board to get in that layout is a V60. I think MK.com still stocks it. Otherwise you'll have to hunt around or wait for a sale of like Tai Hao caps or njbair's SP GB. Matias has caps too.
Or if you're really adventurous, harvest vintage boards for caps. Say an AEK or AT101W.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 12:24:54
Post by: StormyMonday on Thu, 05 May 2016, 16:47:34
I actually mentioned to several vendors that there might be a considerable demand for these switches after I'd buy them in order to try and negotiate a better price for them. Then it turned out all the stock figures the vendors list are made-up and in truth only one supplier stocks these.
MFW the hunt for Neon Green Alps turns into the hunt for IBM 6019284s :))So I am considering getting an Alps KB in a 60% form factor for the Datamancer wood case. Are there any keysets that are available to purchase? I was thinking of buying a Pok3r for the case but I do not have an Alps KB and I thought it would be neat since I like different switches for different purposes.
Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated.
For modern layouts? The easiest available board to get in that layout is a V60. I think MK.com still stocks it. Otherwise you'll have to hunt around or wait for a sale of like Tai Hao caps or njbair's SP GB. Matias has caps too.
Or if you're really adventurous, harvest vintage boards for caps. Say an AEK or AT101W.
gimme dat kish. Or at least help me find one LOL
If all three of us pool out resources, perhaps we could afford a nice one ...
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 16:48:24
Post by: njbair on Thu, 05 May 2016, 17:07:08
Wow, $25 makes more sense, and a great deal! Nice photography, too.got this for 425 shipped with green alps and double shot caps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xCKQLIg.jpg)
$425 or 4.25!?
I was braindead last night :confused: It was $25 shipped actually. I took some pictures of the taking apart:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/A8k5PdX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uBAqcWr.jpg)
Some rework was done I guess:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZkRkQXX.jpg)
Motherboard:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/eWIOpyr.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/IIrGDsD.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YU3BUo7.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/w0ipRqP.jpg)
Post by: StormyMonday on Thu, 05 May 2016, 20:14:30
Been cutting this plate all dayShow Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160505/ae66adfb3a140f0b6eb5ea4499d9cfca.jpg)
That's too much like work!
Don't do yourself a mischief on those sharp edges!!!
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 20:15:35
Post by: StormyMonday on Thu, 05 May 2016, 20:20:23
Been cutting this plate all dayShow Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160505/ae66adfb3a140f0b6eb5ea4499d9cfca.jpg)
That's too much like work!
Don't do yourself a mischief on those sharp edges!!!
it is a lot of work. I got it down to a science though. Gonna cut down an AEK plate and two Acer 6011 plates. Hopefully those turn out alright. Need to pickup some paint.
A guy who restored a Model F used Krylon Hammer-Finished paint. Check it out, the pics looked pretty cool!
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 22:35:43
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 05 May 2016, 23:35:26
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 06 May 2016, 00:11:10
Post by: lootbag on Fri, 06 May 2016, 20:36:29
My V60 w/ SKCL Green's has the most ping of any keyboard in the world, more than the Pingmaster! Want to do a typing test but my phone has trouble picking it up. The whole damn thing resonate's like crazy, it has 3 levels of ping. I have a couple SKCL Green's in my SGI AT101 and they don't sound like the same switches at all.
Interesting, the SKCL Greens in my Z-150 sounded a bit more thocky before I desoldered them.
But this was typing on the bare plate without the case because it was destroyed in shipping.
Still very pleasant to me.
I think I will have to be very careful with case choice in my 60% build.
Maybe go with a thick acrylic/plastic case (with a decent sized cavity under the PCB) and acrylic plate to get max resonance and thock lol.
Probably put some dampening material inside as well.
Any suggestions?
Post by: chyros on Fri, 06 May 2016, 22:11:01
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 06 May 2016, 23:43:08
I actually prefer the sound of tactile ALPS over clicky ALPS. It sounds like "generictypingsound.mp4" stock sounds you'd find on the internet. In a good way.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 May 2016, 01:17:20
My V60 w/ SKCL Green's has the most ping of any keyboard in the world, more than the Pingmaster! Want to do a typing test but my phone has trouble picking it up. The whole damn thing resonate's like crazy, it has 3 levels of ping. I have a couple SKCL Green's in my SGI AT101 and they don't sound like the same switches at all.
Interesting, the SKCL Greens in my Z-150 sounded a bit more thocky before I desoldered them.
But this was typing on the bare plate without the case because it was destroyed in shipping.
Still very pleasant to me.
I think I will have to be very careful with case choice in my 60% build.
Maybe go with a thick acrylic/plastic case (with a decent sized cavity under the PCB) and acrylic plate to get max resonance and thock lol.
Probably put some dampening material inside as well.
Any suggestions?
Oh trust me the V60 does very strange things to the sound. The same SKCL Green's in my Z-150 (when I had it, traded the guts away) were the same as you described it.
Mmmm, Alps typing sounds. Can listen to that all day ^^ .
Alps do have the best sound. IMHO thick PBT Alps caps belong on tactile switches, thinner DS caps belong on clicky switches and linear can go either way. The DS ABS accentuates the click.
Those orange ALPS sound lovely.
I actually prefer the sound of tactile ALPS over clicky ALPS. It sounds like "generictypingsound.mp4" stock sounds you'd find on the internet. In a good way.
Agreed. That SGI is my daily right now, the combo of Alps dyesubs and cleaned, great condiction grey plate SKCM Orange is amazing. I never got to appreciate this board since I had an issue with it not registering ASDFJKL keys, all worked or none. Cleaning the PCB did the trick :thumb: Now that I trust the thing to do what I tell it its great :D
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 07 May 2016, 01:26:34
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 07 May 2016, 01:38:50
I'd say to look for a salvage board-- the Filco Zero, Ducky 1087XM, or KBParadise V80MTS are your best bets for a modern-style TKL-- and find someone to switch-swap it with you.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 May 2016, 21:24:41
Post by: E3E on Sat, 07 May 2016, 21:50:55
Love the video Chyros. SKCM Lime/green is very :cool: Now that all the supply has done, it seems you and Docutech's are the only source now for these switches. They sound lovely with Alps dyesubs, similar to my SGI w/ SKCM Orange but you can notice a distinct difference. I have always wanted a Wang but they seem to be far and few between on ebay, and normally the prices are quite high.
And to continue the Alps SKCM Lime love, here are the two typing videos I've made for two of my Docutechs (the earliest and latest model):
The sound is a little low. D:
They've got great dyesub caps and the case is one of my favorites. It's also very slim for a vintage Alps keyboard, aside from its wide bezel.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 May 2016, 21:57:27
I have a surprise of my own. (E3E don't spoil it) A rare Focus board is coming in off craigslist ;DOooh, colour me excited :D . I love Focus stuff!
Your going to love it Chyros, knowing your love for Focus stuff :p
Well here we are Chryos, the unveil. The board that surprised even me! This board is the Focus FK-727, the 747's brother. Both to my knowledge extremely rare. 84 key AT/XT, 9 NKRO. Now, this board isn't SKCM Blue like I expected, or Alps at all. Its Omron B3G-S. Cyan to be exact. The date on the PCB is 11/2/87, my oldest by far. My Zenith Z-150 might have been older but idk the date on it, didn't say anywhere. Keycaps arent DS, but amazing pad printed ones, have a very similar feel to Alps dyesubs. The board itself is pretty small actually.
The switches are light, on par with SKCL Green if not a little heavier. They feel more hollow than SKCM Blue, and are on par with SKCM White in that regard. They remind me a ton of the Model M. The way they go down, with that distinct 'two step' procedure if you will. Unique AF :thumb: It uses Alps stabs for everything but the spacebar which uses a clone of Cherry's style. Top notch stability especially for a 10U. Take away: A shorter travel and lighter Buckling Spring like switch that is pretty awesome! To me Omron copied SKCM Amber and SKCM Blue, the colors match and does the type of switch. Both Ambers have a big bump + click, and both Blue/Cyan are light, smooth and clicky. This add's to the mystery of SKCM Amber a bit.
The FK-555 could come with Cyan's as well, but only source I see for it is Sandy, whose site is in Japanese. Nobody here own's a Omron Focus from my research. The FK-747 is mentioned once in a 'identify the keyboard' thread' on Deskthority and the 727 has literally nothing on it. Wonder how many of these are left in the world.
The guy on craigslist never cleaned it even though it looks like it was cleaned. There is some gunk on the sides of the keycaps as evidence. So to me this board was barely used. Absolutely no dirt on the plate or inside. It does need a retrobright but for being so old its not bad at all. At first it didn't work with the lights flashing, but after replugging it a couple times and using a different 5 PIN < PS/2 adapter it worked.
The U key doesn't work, and Num 1 and 2 chatter. Chryos, since you have some experience with B3G-S, can you help out with repairing the switches?
And here are the pic's:
(http://i.imgur.com/F2OQAKE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/abEv7Sh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LUawvDV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hQs5jde.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/i47H2F8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HMa09Ey.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/d7DvXse.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kZS5UvX.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/xBZ2Apu.jpg)
Post by: StormyMonday on Sun, 08 May 2016, 02:50:51
I like it! :thumb:
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 08 May 2016, 04:35:33
Typing Sound demonstration: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ERUZpaM6V6MGN4akMzbHROa
Sound Demonstration: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ERUZpaM6V6SzhGODIwZHQ1UVE
Comparison with a Model M, just for fun: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ERUZpaM6V6enBMMFJ6QzRENjQ
You may still hear some clicking in the video, as I haven't done all of the keys (like period, comma, shift, etc).
BTW that's dried blood on my fingers, not cheetos.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 08 May 2016, 06:09:05
The U key doesn't work, and Num 1 and 2 chatter.Your best bet is to just desolder those switches and swap them with some from a less important part of the board. While doing the swap you can try to disassemble, clean, and reassemble them, but it might not fix the problem.
Omrons aren’t too hard to take apart and put back together (you might have to desolder first), but they’re somewhat chattery out of the box. Not as effective a contact design as SKCM switches.
Omron wasn’t the only company to copy the blue color for light clicky switches: NEC, SMK, and Cherry also all made blue-slider light clicky switches after Alps had.
How do you like the switches? Jesse Vincent (aka obra, of keyboard.io) thought cyan B3G-S switches felt “almost like clicky linears”. They’re loud, but not very tactile at all. Personally I found them sorta interesting, but I don’t think I’d want to type on them for extended periods.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 08 May 2016, 06:16:53
I have always wanted a Wang but they seem to be far and few between on ebay, and normally the prices are quite high.Bob Tibbets will sell you a new one with “bamboo” black switches for $125 + shipping, if you really want one. http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com
Post by: chyros on Sun, 08 May 2016, 06:29:21
Love the video Chyros. SKCM Lime/green is very :cool: Now that all the supply has done, it seems you and Docutech's are the only source now for these switches. They sound lovely with Alps dyesubs, similar to my SGI w/ SKCM Orange but you can notice a distinct difference. I have always wanted a Wang but they seem to be far and few between on ebay, and normally the prices are quite high.Thanks for posting that link, I completely forgot to myself xD .
Here's another two pictures I made along the way:
(http://imgur.com/JkFRqun.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/mvrzm0F.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 08 May 2016, 06:35:44
Awesome! A very nice board indeed :D . It's definitely a looker - did Focus ever make a board that wasn't just gorgeous?! It looks just like the 747 btw, do you know of any discrete differences yet?I have a surprise of my own. (E3E don't spoil it) A rare Focus board is coming in off craigslist ;DOooh, colour me excited :D . I love Focus stuff!
Your going to love it Chyros, knowing your love for Focus stuff :p
Well here we are Chryos, the unveil. The board that surprised even me! This board is the Focus FK-727, the 747's brother. Both to my knowledge extremely rare. 84 key AT/XT, 9 NKRO. Now, this board isn't SKCM Blue like I expected, or Alps at all. Its Omron B3G-S. Cyan to be exact. The date on the PCB is 11/2/87, my oldest by far. My Zenith Z-150 might have been older but idk the date on it, didn't say anywhere. Keycaps arent DS, but amazing pad printed ones, have a very similar feel to Alps dyesubs. The board itself is pretty small actually.
The switches are light, on par with SKCL Green if not a little heavier. They feel more hollow than SKCM Blue, and are on par with SKCM White in that regard. They remind me a ton of the Model M. The way they go down, with that distinct 'two step' procedure if you will. Unique AF :thumb: It uses Alps stabs for everything but the spacebar which uses a clone of Cherry's style. Top notch stability especially for a 10U. Take away: A shorter travel and lighter Buckling Spring like switch that is pretty awesome! To me Omron copied SKCM Amber and SKCM Blue, the colors match and does the type of switch. Both Ambers have a big bump + click, and both Blue/Cyan are light, smooth and clicky. This add's to the mystery of SKCM Amber a bit.
The FK-555 could come with Cyan's as well, but only source I see for it is Sandy, whose site is in Japanese. Nobody here own's a Omron Focus from my research. The FK-747 is mentioned once in a 'identify the keyboard' thread' on Deskthority and the 727 has literally nothing on it. Wonder how many of these are left in the world.
The guy on craigslist never cleaned it even though it looks like it was cleaned. There is some gunk on the sides of the keycaps as evidence. So to me this board was barely used. Absolutely no dirt on the plate or inside. It does need a retrobright but for being so old its not bad at all. At first it didn't work with the lights flashing, but after replugging it a couple times and using a different 5 PIN < PS/2 adapter it worked.
The U key doesn't work, and Num 1 and 2 chatter. Chryos, since you have some experience with B3G-S, can you help out with repairing the switches?
And here are the pic's:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/F2OQAKE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/abEv7Sh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LUawvDV.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hQs5jde.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i47H2F8.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HMa09Ey.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/d7DvXse.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kZS5UvX.jpg?1)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xBZ2Apu.jpg)
As for the switches, we all know from Sandy's report of course that zero-gen Focus boards like the 555 appeared to come with either blue Alps or cyan Omnoms, but it's nice to see another one pop up because the switches are so rare... I'd love to give them a god sometime :D . Could you make a typing video of them? Apparently they sound different from ambers.
As for repairing them; I really don't know what's WRONG with these switches that they are so low-fidelity. Other people have reported their failing too, and since I made that review, a few more switches on my Chicony have died without even using them.
I shipped a whole bunch of faulty ones to Orihalcon who seemed to have found a way to fix them, ask him :) .
Post by: Keycap on Sun, 08 May 2016, 10:18:00
I need to desolder all of the switches and work on the mounting plate. It's really rusted up. And the White Alps aren't terribly happy either. A few of the keycaps snapped off too, I hope superglue can save the day :(
Post by: E3E on Sun, 08 May 2016, 10:30:18
So, the first board I displayed was my Hebrew-capped Tai Hao Fame TH-5539, but I didn't take any pictures of that.
I did take pictures of another favorite of mine:
(http://i.imgur.com/d1voNct.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JTdya6j.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/M6Ja9CP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Sck8DO6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5sFG2xP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8qpbfeL.jpg)
It's my 1997 model, which I'd say is probably incredibly rare inside an already super small spectrum. It's got a US ISO layout. All of my others have long left shifts, but this one has a short one. I didn't even notice that detail until itzmeluigi pointed it out to me. :)
I just had to snag that little Docutech pin off of eBay in order to rep what is pretty much my favorite keyboard other than my FAME.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 08 May 2016, 12:00:33
Post by: E3E on Sun, 08 May 2016, 12:03:50
credit to me for finding the pin <3
100%! :-*
I love this pin. <3 Thank you, my good aliensir!
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 08 May 2016, 12:04:40
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 08 May 2016, 12:36:30
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 08 May 2016, 14:02:14
Post by: chyros on Sun, 08 May 2016, 15:05:14
I just found my first Alps board, a variant of the NTC KB-6251 to be exact. It feels pretty good, despite being one big pile of dust(and I think even a bit of mold). The only thing I don't like about it is that the caps are insanely tight. I really am afraid of breaking at least half of them while disassembling it for a nice clean up.It's OK, just use wire pullers and pull straight up, should be fine :) .
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 08 May 2016, 23:22:07
The U key doesn't work, and Num 1 and 2 chatter.Your best bet is to just desolder those switches and swap them with some from a less important part of the board. While doing the swap you can try to disassemble, clean, and reassemble them, but it might not fix the problem.
Omrons aren’t too hard to take apart and put back together (you might have to desolder first), but they’re somewhat chattery out of the box. Not as effective a contact design as SKCM switches.
Omron wasn’t the only company to copy the blue color for light clicky switches: NEC, SMK, and Cherry also all made blue-slider light clicky switches after Alps had.
How do you like the switches? Jesse Vincent (aka obra, of keyboard.io) thought cyan B3G-S switches felt “almost like clicky linears”. They’re loud, but not very tactile at all. Personally I found them sorta interesting, but I don’t think I’d want to type on them for extended periods.
I do agree with his eval, they aren't very tactile indeed. You can still tell they are a tactile switch, but in comparison to others I can see what he is saying. Definitely don't type very fast on them. I am right now. I moved the dead U key to F9 (which sometimes registers) and the chatter keys to Scroll and F10. So now the board is usable! I will try to use it for a week.
Awesome! A very nice board indeed :D . It's definitely a looker - did Focus ever make a board that wasn't just gorgeous?! It looks just like the 747 btw, do you know of any discrete differences yet?I have a surprise of my own. (E3E don't spoil it) A rare Focus board is coming in off craigslist ;DOooh, colour me excited :D . I love Focus stuff!
Your going to love it Chyros, knowing your love for Focus stuff :p
Well here we are Chryos, the unveil. The board that surprised even me! This board is the Focus FK-727, the 747's brother. Both to my knowledge extremely rare. 84 key AT/XT, 9 NKRO. Now, this board isn't SKCM Blue like I expected, or Alps at all. Its Omron B3G-S. Cyan to be exact. The date on the PCB is 11/2/87, my oldest by far. My Zenith Z-150 might have been older but idk the date on it, didn't say anywhere. Keycaps arent DS, but amazing pad printed ones, have a very similar feel to Alps dyesubs. The board itself is pretty small actually.
The switches are light, on par with SKCL Green if not a little heavier. They feel more hollow than SKCM Blue, and are on par with SKCM White in that regard. They remind me a ton of the Model M. The way they go down, with that distinct 'two step' procedure if you will. Unique AF :thumb: It uses Alps stabs for everything but the spacebar which uses a clone of Cherry's style. Top notch stability especially for a 10U. Take away: A shorter travel and lighter Buckling Spring like switch that is pretty awesome! To me Omron copied SKCM Amber and SKCM Blue, the colors match and does the type of switch. Both Ambers have a big bump + click, and both Blue/Cyan are light, smooth and clicky. This add's to the mystery of SKCM Amber a bit.
The FK-555 could come with Cyan's as well, but only source I see for it is Sandy, whose site is in Japanese. Nobody here own's a Omron Focus from my research. The FK-747 is mentioned once in a 'identify the keyboard' thread' on Deskthority and the 727 has literally nothing on it. Wonder how many of these are left in the world.
The guy on craigslist never cleaned it even though it looks like it was cleaned. There is some gunk on the sides of the keycaps as evidence. So to me this board was barely used. Absolutely no dirt on the plate or inside. It does need a retrobright but for being so old its not bad at all. At first it didn't work with the lights flashing, but after replugging it a couple times and using a different 5 PIN < PS/2 adapter it worked.
The U key doesn't work, and Num 1 and 2 chatter. Chryos, since you have some experience with B3G-S, can you help out with repairing the switches?
And here are the pic's:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/F2OQAKE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/abEv7Sh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LUawvDV.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hQs5jde.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i47H2F8.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HMa09Ey.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/d7DvXse.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kZS5UvX.jpg?1)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xBZ2Apu.jpg)
As for the switches, we all know from Sandy's report of course that zero-gen Focus boards like the 555 appeared to come with either blue Alps or cyan Omnoms, but it's nice to see another one pop up because the switches are so rare... I'd love to give them a god sometime :D . Could you make a typing video of them? Apparently they sound different from ambers.
As for repairing them; I really don't know what's WRONG with these switches that they are so low-fidelity. Other people have reported their failing too, and since I made that review, a few more switches on my Chicony have died without even using them.
I shipped a whole bunch of faulty ones to Orihalcon who seemed to have found a way to fix them, ask him :) .
Yea, it really is a pretty board. Small for what it is as well compared to a Zenith. I don't know of any differences as of yet. We don't know much about the 747 so it's kinda hard to tell. I figure 727 = Omron and 747 = Alps though. Do you think I should keep this board? I am going to use for a week and see how it goes.
Here ya go! They are a bit deeper than what is depicted in the video but it is pretty accurate.
Post by: ipreferpie on Tue, 10 May 2016, 13:18:44
Post by: need on Tue, 10 May 2016, 13:36:14
So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. I'm new to ALPS but have been doing some research and looking to put together a custom build with the upcoming VE.A, some ALPS to MX adapters and DSA PBT caps. If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead? Thanks very much! :thumb:If you've scored them, can't you just try them out yourself and see how it feels??
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 14:01:07
Post by: E3E on Tue, 10 May 2016, 14:13:19
So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. I'm new to ALPS but have been doing some research and looking to put together a custom build with the upcoming VE.A, some ALPS to MX adapters and DSA PBT caps. If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead? Thanks very much! :thumb:
Like others have said,I think it's best to try them yourself, good sir. Our perspectives can only offer so much insight. Zealios and SKCM Brown or SKCM Lime/Tactile Green feel nothing alike. They feel more like Topre. Salmon Alps feel more like Zealios and Orange Alps are cut from the same tree.
Post by: ipreferpie on Tue, 10 May 2016, 14:18:35
So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. I'm new to ALPS but have been doing some research and looking to put together a custom build with the upcoming VE.A, some ALPS to MX adapters and DSA PBT caps. If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead? Thanks very much! :thumb:
Like others have said,I think it's best to try them yourself, good sir. Our perspectives can only offer so much insight. Zealios and SKCM Brown or SKCM Lime/Tactile Green feel nothing alike. They feel more like Topre. Salmon Alps feel more like Zealios and Orange Alps are cut from the same tree.
Thanks very much! I guess I'll place them on some test boards and see how they feel before I make a decision. The feel on a board would be much more accurate than testing them standalone. For the SKCM Brown, do you feel they're more like 45g or 55g Topre to you?
Post by: guster11 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 16:38:14
Both of my AEK2's have issues with the sliding tab that adjusts height. They both only move a click or two til no amount of force can get them to move. Everything else about the mechanism seems to work, I just have no idea how to get the slider to work as it should.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 10 May 2016, 16:50:52
I just have no idea how to get the slider to work as it should.
Open the case and help the piece along from the inside?
Apple is the poster child for the good, the bad, and the ugly. That mechanism is *really* bad.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 10 May 2016, 16:58:48
Just got a floating shelf to display keyboards on rotation in my room. Might add more of these sometime since I LOVE the look. I just wish there were more studs in the only wall where this works for my room.
So, the first board I displayed was my Hebrew-capped Tai Hao Fame TH-5539, but I didn't take any pictures of that.
I did take pictures of another favorite of mine:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/d1voNct.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JTdya6j.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/M6Ja9CP.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Sck8DO6.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5sFG2xP.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8qpbfeL.jpg)
It's my 1997 model, which I'd say is probably incredibly rare inside an already super small spectrum. It's got a US ISO layout. All of my others have long left shifts, but this one has a short one. I didn't even notice that detail until itzmeluigi pointed it out to me. :)
I just had to snag that little Docutech pin off of eBay in order to rep what is pretty much my favorite keyboard other than my FAME.
**** THAT BOARD AND THE PIN IS SO HOT.
I'm building a brown skcm board soon. I think they feel more poppy then oranges. Stiffness isn't an issue for me but it may make your hands tired
I'm still settling for tactile brown alps :D
bbrown alps bb
Dude....we get it. You post 3 times a page you're building a board with SKCM Browns.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 17:00:07
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 17:32:29
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 10 May 2016, 18:10:57
Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160510/b9d19c99b619ee04b5e19163b32af362.jpg)
Woah that is awesome, those gray caps look so good. Did the plate/switches align with the default PCB positions or did you have to drill out new ones?
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 18:14:21
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 19:32:07
The pcb hasn't arrived yet, but I suspect I'll need to mod it for the spacebar at leastShow Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160510/b9d19c99b619ee04b5e19163b32af362.jpg)
Woah that is awesome, those gray caps look so good. Did the plate/switches align with the default PCB positions or did you have to drill out new ones?
Where are you getting the pcb? My typewriter has the same layout and I want to do the same with it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 19:41:32
Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160510/b9d19c99b619ee04b5e19163b32af362.jpg)
Are those caps and plate from that Sharp typewriter? Wow that looks great! Gotta get myself a Sharp typewriter like yours and make one myself! Must be pretty cheap too compared to other customs.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 19:46:17
Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160510/b9d19c99b619ee04b5e19163b32af362.jpg)
Are those caps and plate from that Sharp typewriter? Wow that looks great! Gotta get myself a Sharp typewriter like yours and make one myself! Must be pretty cheap too compared to other customs.
yeah those are the original caps, just like mine. They are really nice alps doubleshots
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 20:18:49
Post by: guster11 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 20:52:34
I just have no idea how to get the slider to work as it should.
Open the case and help the piece along from the inside?
Apple is the poster child for the good, the bad, and the ugly. That mechanism is *really* bad.
Haha that's the only way I can get it to work currently. Its a really stupid design, but its typical 90's apple product. It's only a single screw to open it so I nay just leave it at that
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 10 May 2016, 21:04:44
I'd love a TKL board with Orange ALPS. I can't stand to game on clicky switches but don't like to type on linear switches.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 10 May 2016, 22:11:42
(http://i.imgur.com/bw9l6Yw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VsKudCh.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 22:21:46
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 10 May 2016, 22:59:36
Just got my IBM 5576-002 today, its in perfect condition. Alps plate spring is awesome :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/bw9l6Yw.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VsKudCh.jpg)
Wow nice!
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 11 May 2016, 02:25:37
I'll have to see if the Matias slider works with the original ALPS springs, but it does at least work the other way around.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 11 May 2016, 07:05:54
I'd love a TKL board with Orange ALPS. I can't stand to game on clicky switches but don't like to type on linear switches.
I thought that somebody was selling a Ducky 1087XM here recently. I got one of those and an Apple AEK and built what you described. I used as many of the Apple keycaps as possible, which was about 80% of the board.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 11 May 2016, 09:51:51
**** THAT BOARD AND THE PIN IS SO HOT.
Firstly, let me just say thanks. :-* They're my favorite Alps boards along with my FAME.
Secondly,
Since we're all throwing in typing videos, I wanted to play too. Here's a really old video (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58776.0).
This typing video of blue Alps on your Kingsaver is what inspired me to get into Alps in the first place. After this, I looked into Alps and was really intrigued by their design and look, so thus my quest began!
So, coming full-circle now, here's my typing video on the Kingsaver's spiritual successor:
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 11 May 2016, 10:33:08
Post by: chyros on Wed, 11 May 2016, 10:53:56
Here ya go! They are a bit deeper than what is depicted in the video but it is pretty accurate.Interesting! They sound like ambers, but distinctly different from what I can tell, too - the amber Omnoms have a more "leafy" sound if that makes sense. And the cyans sound like they're quieter, too.
Just got my IBM 5576-002 today, its in perfect condition. Alps plate spring is awesome :DGorgeous. Beautiful board, and in amazing condition! Looking forward to trying Alps plate spring myself! 8)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/bw9l6Yw.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VsKudCh.jpg)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 11 May 2016, 10:56:04
Just got my IBM 5576-002 today, its in perfect condition. Alps plate spring is awesome :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/bw9l6Yw.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VsKudCh.jpg)
Stupid thread....my list of things that are Alps related to try is growing bigger and bigger these days :(.
SKCM Neon Green, SKCM Amber, and this are now at the top.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 11 May 2016, 10:57:53
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 11 May 2016, 11:34:22
Lookout for the IBM P70 if you want to try plate mount. I'm not sure about the interface, as it was part of a laptop or PC, but they're ansi plate mount alps nonetheless.P70 / P75 are PCB-mounted “plate spring” switches, not plate-mounted switches.
The problem with the IBM luggables is that they have the flimsiest case construction imaginable for the keyboard, because they were trying to save space and weight. The switches are PCB-mounted, and then a tiny bit of rigidity is provided by some metal strips running lengthwise across the board. The flimsy plastic case is held together by plastic clips in a really-annoying-to-take-apart way, that encourages you to just break the case off if you want to open it up.
They also have very thin PBT keycaps on all the 1u keys and ctrl/alt keys that in my opinion aren’t very pleasant (the larger modifier keys are nice thick PBT).
On the upside, because these keyboards were part of a luggable, which became mostly obsolete within a few years after production, the switches are typically in great condition, because they often weren’t ever exposed to the air. You can sometimes find one with a broken computer part selling relatively cheap on ebay or wherever. For example, http://www.ebay.com/itm/131799992685?orig_cvip=true ($75 shipped) http://www.ebay.com/itm/252312593142?orig_cvip=true ($50 shipped)
If you replace the keycaps with some thicker ones, and take the case entirely off and just set the bare PCB on top of a wooden board, the whole thing feels and sounds a lot nicer to type on.
Desoldering the switches from these is incredibly annoying. Each switch has 4 leads (as you might expect for a PCB-mounted switch), and all four are bent down hard on the back of the PCB. To desolder requires sucking the solder out and then carefully unbending each lead. Takes about 4–5x longer than desoldering a typical SKCM keyboard.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 11 May 2016, 11:42:46
So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. [...] If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead?55g Topre is also a very stiff switch. Personally I find brown Alps, 55g Topre, and MX clear to all be too stiff for my taste, and I don’t particularly enjoy the “rounded” force curve of Topre, brown/lime Alps, or Burroughs torsion spring switches. YMMV.
Good condition orange and blue Alps switches are both really fantastic switches if you want something lightly–crisply tactile, two of the most enjoyable typing experiences. You can’t go wrong with either of those. The blue ones in particular are IMO the most “elegant” sounding clicky switch you can find. If you want something a bit snappier, then white Alps switches and SMK clicky switches are also great.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 11 May 2016, 11:59:37
Slightly off topic, but if I find the above true and think that 65g Zealios are way too light, will 78g Zealios be too much?
Also, Orange Alps are just about perfect; what's the bottoming out force on those?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 11 May 2016, 12:08:41
Post by: smarmar on Wed, 11 May 2016, 12:10:14
Just got a floating shelf to display keyboards on rotation in my room. Might add more of these sometime since I LOVE the look. I just wish there were more studs in the only wall where this works for my room.Gods, that is one beauty of a keyboard! And that matching mouse! :thumb: There's something about vintage electronics that makes me absolutely swoon!
So, the first board I displayed was my Hebrew-capped Tai Hao Fame TH-5539, but I didn't take any pictures of that.
I did take pictures of another favorite of mine:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/d1voNct.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JTdya6j.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/M6Ja9CP.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Sck8DO6.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5sFG2xP.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8qpbfeL.jpg)
It's my 1997 model, which I'd say is probably incredibly rare inside an already super small spectrum. It's got a US ISO layout. All of my others have long left shifts, but this one has a short one. I didn't even notice that detail until itzmeluigi pointed it out to me. :)
I just had to snag that little Docutech pin off of eBay in order to rep what is pretty much my favorite keyboard other than my FAME.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 11 May 2016, 12:11:20
Dang. I think 55g Topre is actually too light. :eek:
Slightly off topic, but if I find the above true and think that 65g Zealios are way too light, will 78g Zealios be too much?
Also, Orange Alps are just about perfect; what's the bottoming out force on those?
55 g on a relative scale is not stiff at all xD . Sure it might be too stiff for some people, but many switches are stiffer than that, sometimes considerably more so :) . Most Alps switches are fairly stiff.These “grams” numbers are misleading. 55g Topre feels about as stiff in practice as MX clear, brown Alps, or a Model M, in my abstract mental image of these switches. The Model M is higher peak force, but the catastrophic buckling of the spring changes the subjective feel dramatically.
Once there are reliable force curve measurements taken of real switches on HaaTa’s machine, we can try to come up with some better metric for “how much work does the switch take to actuate/fully press”, “how tactile is it”, “how painful is it to mash to bottom-out”, etc.
In practice, orange Alps is pretty comparable to 45g Topre IMO, though I don’t own any Topre keyboards, so that’s just going off vague memory.
65g Zealios (that number is based on bottom-out force, right?) are probably fairly comparable to orange Alps. 78g Zealios is going to be closer to black Alps switches or MX clear, I’m guessing. [I haven’t tried Zealios, I could be off base.]
Post by: ipreferpie on Wed, 11 May 2016, 12:30:13
So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. [...] If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead?55g Topre is also a very stiff switch. Personally I find brown Alps, 55g Topre, and MX clear to all be too stiff for my taste, and I don’t particularly enjoy the “rounded” force curve of Topre, brown/lime Alps, or Burroughs torsion spring switches. YMMV.
Good condition orange and blue Alps switches are both really fantastic switches if you want something lightly–crisply tactile, two of the most enjoyable typing experiences. You can’t go wrong with either of those. The blue ones in particular are IMO the most “elegant” sounding clicky switch you can find. If you want something a bit snappier, then white Alps switches and SMK clicky switches are also great.
Looks like I might have to build 2 alps boards in that case! For me, the topre 55g feels wonderful to type on but it does get tiring for long sessions.
In terms of sound is the Matias Quiet Click or SKCM Orange quieter than the Browns?
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 11 May 2016, 13:42:15
Matias quiet switches are much quieter.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 11 May 2016, 14:31:03
ALPS in general are really loud, even their non-clicky switches can be louder than some clicky switches.
Post by: eohmiller on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:24:50
So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. [...] If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead?55g Topre is also a very stiff switch. Personally I find brown Alps, 55g Topre, and MX clear to all be too stiff for my taste, and I don’t particularly enjoy the “rounded” force curve of Topre, brown/lime Alps, or Burroughs torsion spring switches. YMMV.
Good condition orange and blue Alps switches are both really fantastic switches if you want something lightly–crisply tactile, two of the most enjoyable typing experiences. You can’t go wrong with either of those. The blue ones in particular are IMO the most “elegant” sounding clicky switch you can find. If you want something a bit snappier, then white Alps switches and SMK clicky switches are also great.
Looks like I might have to build 2 alps boards in that case! For me, the topre 55g feels wonderful to type on but it does get tiring for long sessions.
In terms of sound is the Matias Quiet Click or SKCM Orange quieter than the Browns?
The QCs seem to be the quietest in my opinion. They have a pretty hefty tactile feedback too.
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:53:45
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sat, 14 May 2016, 08:50:12
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 14 May 2016, 09:40:03
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 11:51:10
Some time ago my best pal asked if I didn't have a spare keyboard, as he urgently needed something for his mum, a retired GP doctor. So I said LOL, okay, but it's gonna be oooold. There's a whole box of them old Dells, if a key doesn't work or something like that just come back and pick another one, just can't guarantee it won't be a particularly bad shade of yellow. He didn't come back, and the 'board supposedly is great. Also gave one of them to a Ph.D. student in literature and another to a coder. That means I should still have seven left. Ironically, while I appreciate the uncommon speed you can type on them with (compared to anything else, include blue Majestouch), I somehow can't use one myself. I worry about missing characters if I don't realize something's odd with them, and as a professional translator I would face a lot of disproportionate hate over a typo or missing plural or something else like that.
Thats cool. Dell AT101/W's I assume? If they love SKCM Black just wait until they try SKCM Blue or Orange.
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sat, 14 May 2016, 17:02:45
Some time ago my best pal asked if I didn't have a spare keyboard, as he urgently needed something for his mum, a retired GP doctor. So I said LOL, okay, but it's gonna be oooold. There's a whole box of them old Dells, if a key doesn't work or something like that just come back and pick another one, just can't guarantee it won't be a particularly bad shade of yellow. He didn't come back, and the 'board supposedly is great. Also gave one of them to a Ph.D. student in literature and another to a coder. That means I should still have seven left. Ironically, while I appreciate the uncommon speed you can type on them with (compared to anything else, include blue Majestouch), I somehow can't use one myself. I worry about missing characters if I don't realize something's odd with them, and as a professional translator I would face a lot of disproportionate hate over a typo or missing plural or something else like that.
Thats cool. Dell AT101/W's I assume? If they love SKCM Black just wait until they try SKCM Blue or Orange.
Plain old black 101/202W's, yeah. Some preceding Win 95 (no Win key), some not, probably all of them at least 20 years old. I bought like 10 of them for 75 bucks or something, in Polish currency. I don't think I've literally tested them all, but some probably still have all keys in order. I once ordered blue Alps, from a fellow Geekhacker, but they didn't arrive. What a massive pity.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 18:08:10
Some time ago my best pal asked if I didn't have a spare keyboard, as he urgently needed something for his mum, a retired GP doctor. So I said LOL, okay, but it's gonna be oooold. There's a whole box of them old Dells, if a key doesn't work or something like that just come back and pick another one, just can't guarantee it won't be a particularly bad shade of yellow. He didn't come back, and the 'board supposedly is great. Also gave one of them to a Ph.D. student in literature and another to a coder. That means I should still have seven left. Ironically, while I appreciate the uncommon speed you can type on them with (compared to anything else, include blue Majestouch), I somehow can't use one myself. I worry about missing characters if I don't realize something's odd with them, and as a professional translator I would face a lot of disproportionate hate over a typo or missing plural or something else like that.
Thats cool. Dell AT101/W's I assume? If they love SKCM Black just wait until they try SKCM Blue or Orange.
Plain old black 101/202W's, yeah. Some preceding Win 95 (no Win key), some not, probably all of them at least 20 years old. I bought like 10 of them for 75 bucks or something, in Polish currency. I don't think I've literally tested them all, but some probably still have all keys in order. I once ordered blue Alps, from a fellow Geekhacker, but they didn't arrive. What a massive pity.
Do any of them use SKCM Salmon?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 May 2016, 18:16:27
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 19:20:14
(http://i.imgur.com/NVREPYn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/C7JSv3r.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JfD2dRK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/b2JNRSy.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 14 May 2016, 19:39:36
Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.These are both from the Gold Star factory in Korea, right?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 May 2016, 19:46:35
Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.These are both from the Gold Star factory in Korea, right?
Yes.
Post by: Venatorious on Sat, 14 May 2016, 20:56:39
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 21:42:17
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 14 May 2016, 22:39:10
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 14 May 2016, 22:43:30
Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NVREPYn.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C7JSv3r.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JfD2dRK.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b2JNRSy.jpg)
What do they feel like?! So exciting :D. I would love to just try those switches out!!
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 23:05:17
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 14 May 2016, 23:46:04
What do they feel like?! So exciting :D. I would love to just try those switches out!!Seems like the linear ones should be like other linear Alps switches (are the springs similar to green SKCLs?) and the locking ones should be pretty much the same as other Alps lock switches.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 15 May 2016, 10:54:40
Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NVREPYn.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C7JSv3r.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JfD2dRK.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b2JNRSy.jpg)
What do they feel like?! So exciting :D. I would love to just try those switches out!!
Well, the sliders for these switches have symmetrical notches on each side like all of the older linear switches and unlike SKCL Grey and SKCL Yellow.
Based on what I've tried, I'd say the switches weights go like this:
Green > Yellow > Brown & Cream (practically identical feel) > SKCL Grey & SKCL Amber.
There's also SKCL Heavy Green, which I just tried out and compared to the others. It seems to be around the same weight of Alps SKCL Brown and Cream. Like Jacobolus said, the Brown SKCL Lock is pretty much just a normal SKCL Lock with a different colored slider. They feel the same. :)
I think SKCL Amber (formerly known as taxi yellow) was known about though. I believe it can be found in some old SKCL Green boards as well.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 15 May 2016, 11:36:38
Based on what I've tried, I'd say the switches weights go like this:Uhhh, I'm assuming you mean it the other way around? xD
Green > Yellow > Brown & Cream (practically identical feel) > SKCL Grey & SKCL Amber.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:36:58
Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NVREPYn.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C7JSv3r.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JfD2dRK.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b2JNRSy.jpg)
What do they feel like?! So exciting :D. I would love to just try those switches out!!
Well, the sliders for these switches have symmetrical notches on each side like all of the older linear switches and unlike SKCL Grey and SKCL Yellow.
Based on what I've tried, I'd say the switches weights go like this:
Green > Yellow > Brown & Cream (practically identical feel) > SKCL Grey & SKCL Amber.
There's also SKCL Heavy Green, which I just tried out and compared to the others. It seems to be around the same weight of Alps SKCL Brown and Cream. Like Jacobolus said, the Brown SKCL Lock is pretty much just a normal SKCL Lock with a different colored slider. They feel the same. :)
I think SKCL Amber (formerly known as taxi yellow) was known about though. I believe it can be found in some old SKCL Green boards as well.
Where did you get the SKCL Heavy Grey from?
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:21:12
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sun, 15 May 2016, 14:16:02
Do any of them use SKCM Salmon?Hmmm… this is going to make me like a n00b (and for good reason), but I didn't actually check all of them. I simply assumed all of them would be blacks, as coming from the same source at the same price (post-leasing boards), and they felt exactly the same in touch all of them, but if they have different production years and slightly different layouts, they might as well use different switches too. Gotta check.
For now, as I recall, all of them have the new logo, while salmons should have the old.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 15 May 2016, 14:27:51
Where did you get the SKCL Heavy Grey from?
It came from a practically new ADDS 1010 terminal keyboard, but I received only individual switches as I made a trade for them, trading some SKCM Blues out of a DC-2014 for them.
The SKCL Heavy Green had "lipstick" on the rim of its slider, I suppose to denote that it was different. It was some sort of waxy pigment and has since rubbed off.
Here's the album from the original owner of the ADDS keyboard: http://imgur.com/a/vq9iQ
Uhhh, I'm assuming you mean it the other way around? xD
I meant from lightest to heaviest. :D These are from what I've tried, but I know there a few more esoteric linears that have very heavy weighting like the double action and the heavy grey.
Hmmm… this is going to make me like a n00b (and for good reason), but I didn't actually check all of them. I simply assumed all of them would be blacks, as coming from the same source at the same price (post-leasing boards), and they felt exactly the same in touch all of them, but if they have different production years and slightly different layouts, they might as well use different switches too. Gotta check.
To make it easier on yourself, just look out for the beige-cased ones with the OLD Dell logo on them. Out of these, only the ones made in the USA will have Salmon Alps. You can check this by looking at the FCC ID label on the back of the keyboard. :thumb:
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:27:08
Just finished my 60% with custom cut and painted plate. Had to do some rework with hasu's pcb as the spacebar isn't supported. Luckily it all worked out nicely:Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160515/863b2b5b761cac458f8aa459ee7f835a.jpg)
I like those caps. What case is that?
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:27:46
Post by: E3E on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:34:14
ziptyze plastic 3d printed caseJust finished my 60% with custom cut and painted plate. Had to do some rework with hasu's pcb as the spacebar isn't supported. Luckily it all worked out nicely:Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160515/863b2b5b761cac458f8aa459ee7f835a.jpg)
I like those caps. What case is that?
Now that I think about it, dude... If you could get a high profile case that's the same height of the blockers and colored in the same shade of grey, it'd give your keyboard a very sick retromodern aesthetic.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:35:08
Post by: NightCabbage on Mon, 16 May 2016, 02:40:06
I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.
I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.
How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?
Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?
Post by: need on Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:29:08
Quick question...It definitely feel less tactile than vintage ones, say salmons and blacks which are basically the maximum tactility I can bear. Quiet clicks feels shallower and softer to type, which is pleasant in its own right. It feels bouncy to type on.
I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.
I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.
How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?
Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?
You really have to try them out for first hand experience, and vintage keyboards are a good way to do that, as you can sell them without losing much or even any money at all. It will takes more time than buying things off the shelf though.
Post by: zombimuncha on Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:48:02
Quick question...
I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.
I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.
How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?
Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?
keyboardco.com will sell you individual Matias switches, with somewhat reasonable shipping from the UK. Then you'd just need to find a keycap or two from somewhere.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 16 May 2016, 06:46:39
Quick question...Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.
I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.
I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.
How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?
Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Mon, 16 May 2016, 09:53:59
To make it easier on yourself, just look out for the beige-cased ones with the OLD Dell logo on them. Out of these, only the ones made in the USA will have Salmon Alps. You can check this by looking at the FCC ID label on the back of the keyboard. :thumb:
I wasn't able to remove a keycap safely, but all of them had the new logo and GYU numbers (not GYI), so according to this (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Dell_AT101), they should all be blacks. There is some difference in feel between older and newer ones. Newer ones are crisper but rougher, older ones more similar to newer Model M's and a bit thocky — or was it the other way round? Probably not enough to feel like a separate type of switch but not entirely the same either.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 16 May 2016, 10:09:48
The '97SK version came with pine black Alps which are MUCH better than the later bamboo ones used in the '95SK and '90SK. They're really nice switches, much closer to salmon and orange Alps than to bamboo blacks. It even includes a steel weight to make it heavier, which wasn't present on GYI Bigfoots nor on the '90SK.To make it easier on yourself, just look out for the beige-cased ones with the OLD Dell logo on them. Out of these, only the ones made in the USA will have Salmon Alps. You can check this by looking at the FCC ID label on the back of the keyboard. :thumb:
I wasn't able to remove a keycap safely, but all of them had the new logo and GYU numbers (not GYI), so according to this (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Dell_AT101), they should all be blacks. There is some difference in feel between older and newer ones. Newer ones are crisper but rougher, older ones more similar to newer Model M's and a bit thocky — or was it the other way round? Probably not enough to feel like a separate type of switch but not entirely the same either.
Here's a video review I made on it:
Post by: NightCabbage on Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:58:33
Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.
Oh that's interesting to hear!
So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:23:18
They make no click as they're actually tactile switches; the Quiet Click name is a poorly chosen, misleading name. Due to the way Alps tactile and click leaves work, tactile switches are less tactile than clicky ones. Matias appears to have slightly compensated for this, though.Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.
Oh that's interesting to hear!
So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:36:55
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:37:38
They make no click as they're actually tactile switches; the Quiet Click name is a poorly chosen, misleading name. Due to the way Alps tactile and click leaves work, tactile switches are less tactile than clicky ones. Matias appears to have slightly compensated for this, though.Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.
Oh that's interesting to hear!
So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?
Am I right in recalling that the Quiet Click switches are (more or less) a descendant of the old simplified black ALPS?
If so, I may have to pick up a keyboard with them sometime. Heard a few too many complaints about MQP quality relative to the price, though, and as someone who uses a lot of rollover, being limited to 6KRO is a pretty big turnoff. Ah well-- hopefully more manufacturers will adopt them in the future.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 17 May 2016, 02:29:20
they're closer to dampened Alps than black ones. Dampened Alps aren't for everyone, but many still enjoy them.They make no click as they're actually tactile switches; the Quiet Click name is a poorly chosen, misleading name. Due to the way Alps tactile and click leaves work, tactile switches are less tactile than clicky ones. Matias appears to have slightly compensated for this, though.Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.
Oh that's interesting to hear!
So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?
Am I right in recalling that the Quiet Click switches are (more or less) a descendant of the old simplified black ALPS?
If so, I may have to pick up a keyboard with them sometime. Heard a few too many complaints about MQP quality relative to the price, though, and as someone who uses a lot of rollover, being limited to 6KRO is a pretty big turnoff. Ah well-- hopefully more manufacturers will adopt them in the future.
Got my fk-2001 with alps.tw Type T1 white alps clones. Holy crap they are nice! Not quite buckling spring nice but still even better than I was expecting.Some clone types are much better than others, T1 and OA2 are much closer in construction to real Alps than others, making them feel quite like Alps, just a bit lighter. I've found them to be pretty good :) .
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 22:46:10
Thin PBT makes the switches feel nice and light and lively, in a good way. I had to put in a couple new switches to fill a couple gaps (ended up putting them in the insert/end/pgupdown/ area so I will almost never use them) The difference is real, and I mean it. No 'vintage' black bull****. The new stems are quieter and feel much more dampened. Worse imho.
Or maybe Cherry's quality has gone down in the last couple years, who knows :p All I know is that this board feels amazing coming from what the normal expectation for MX is.
Post by: KRKS on Wed, 18 May 2016, 01:44:13
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 18 May 2016, 09:35:08
Burn the heretic ;D
Lol. But it is great. Funny how you have to go to such great lengths to properly enjoy MX. ALPS is always good!
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 18 May 2016, 12:52:57
Post by: E3E on Wed, 18 May 2016, 14:00:22
(http://i.imgur.com/W1Sdx7Z.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/49Nj7WK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gQJX1ia.jpg)
Put some interesting non-sculpted cylindrical caps from a typewriter onto my Hammer Alps Eagle. They're actually pretty pleasant to type on since the case has a natural incline, but it's just a shame that the mods don't fit with the profile.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 18 May 2016, 14:06:46
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Thu, 19 May 2016, 00:42:38
Yes !
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160519/751688b4ac4fe5afa4dedd0044298e03.jpg)
Yes yes !
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160519/865e7a26b7f0c92a5bfe052f645913c8.jpg)
Yes ! Yes ! Yes !
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Post by: drevyek on Thu, 19 May 2016, 06:55:40
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7tlOnyH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/W1Sdx7Z.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/49Nj7WK.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gQJX1ia.jpg)
Put some interesting non-sculpted cylindrical caps from a typewriter onto my Hammer Alps Eagle. They're actually pretty pleasant to type on since the case has a natural incline, but it's just a shame that the mods don't fit with the profile.
I've been looking around for the different typewriters that used alps caps- which one did you harvest from? those caps are really attractive!
I've got an SGI case and plate and PCB, but no switches or caps :( I think it has an offset capslock, so I need to get a set with one, or else it'll be wonky as all hell.
I love the Orange Alps on my M0116, but sorta wish they were a bit heavier- are there any springs available for alps to make them a bit heavier?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 19 May 2016, 06:59:38
Try salmons. Though other springs like blacks or white should work as well I guess.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7tlOnyH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/W1Sdx7Z.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/49Nj7WK.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gQJX1ia.jpg)
Put some interesting non-sculpted cylindrical caps from a typewriter onto my Hammer Alps Eagle. They're actually pretty pleasant to type on since the case has a natural incline, but it's just a shame that the mods don't fit with the profile.
I've been looking around for the different typewriters that used alps caps- which one did you harvest from? those caps are really attractive!
I've got an SGI case and plate and PCB, but no switches or caps :( I think it has an offset capslock, so I need to get a set with one, or else it'll be wonky as all hell.
I love the Orange Alps on my M0116, but sorta wish they were a bit heavier- are there any springs available for alps to make them a bit heavier?
Post by: dante on Thu, 19 May 2016, 08:34:15
https://uccu.cool3c.com/projects/266
It looks like i-Rocks is working with alps.tw to develop a Alps switch with optional sound dampening AND MX keycap compatibility.
Post by: zombimuncha on Thu, 19 May 2016, 10:14:19
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Thu, 19 May 2016, 10:21:33
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Post by: need on Thu, 19 May 2016, 10:53:28
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 19 May 2016, 12:20:51
It looks like i-Rocks is working with alps.tw to develop a Alps switch with optional sound dampening AND MX keycap compatibility.Where by “Alps switch” you mean new type of tactile leaf we haven’t seen before, non-Alps-compatible spring, non-Alps compatible pinout with a big plastic blob sticking out the bottom, totally new type of slider with MX keycap mount, roughly APC / "type OA1" style contact, and big square housing shell.
Could be a nice switch (probably better than any tactile MX switch, but that’s a very low bar), but it doesn’t have much to do with Alps beyond possibly the original inspiration for the click/tactile leaf.
What I want to see remade are clicky SMK switches, and something similar to Alps or Marquardt plate spring switches.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 19 May 2016, 12:23:30
Yeah, I agree completely, this isn't really that Alpsy at all when you think about it. And tbh the idea of a tactile leaf wasn't even invented by Alps, so it could have been based on anything xD .It looks like i-Rocks is working with alps.tw to develop a Alps switch with optional sound dampening AND MX keycap compatibility.Where by “Alps switch” you mean new type of tactile leaf we haven’t seen before, non-Alps-compatible spring, non-Alps compatible pinout with a big plastic blob sticking out the bottom, totally new type of slider with MX keycap mount, roughly APC / "type OA1" style contact, and big square housing shell.
Could be a nice switch (probably better than any tactile MX switch, but that’s a very low bar), but it doesn’t have much to do with Alps beyond possibly the original inspiration for the click/tactile leaf.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 19 May 2016, 12:29:33
Marquardt plate spring switches.
If these are what I've been calling Marquardt butterfly switches....all of the yes. Do plate Alps feel like the Marquardt butterfly switches you showed me in SF?
Post by: quasistellar on Thu, 19 May 2016, 12:30:02
Between Zealios and their upcoming silent mods and now this Matias is going to have a very tough time...
https://uccu.cool3c.com/projects/266
It looks like i-Rocks is working with alps.tw to develop a Alps switch with optional sound dampening AND MX keycap compatibility.
I can't read that very well, but just looking at the pictures, it looks pretty cool. Only problem for me is that they've kept one of the things I don't love about Cherry MX, which is the 4mm stroke. Those force curves look pretty nice, though--very flat after the tactile point (which I like).
Is there any info on how to get these or how much they cost? I saw some prices listed in YUAN but that seems reeeaaaallly high when converted to USD
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 19 May 2016, 12:38:30
Marquardt plate spring switches.
If these are what I've been calling Marquardt butterfly switches....all of the yes. Do plate Alps feel like the Marquardt butterfly switches you showed me in SF?
Not sure about Marquardt but Alps plate spring feel very similar to IBM buckling springs to me.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:34:19
If these are what I've been calling Marquardt butterfly switches....all of the yes. Do plate Alps feel like the Marquardt butterfly switches you showed me in SF?IBM (“beam spring”), Marquardt, and Alps plate spring have a similar concept (coil spring + buckling metal "plate" spring), but all three feel quite different from each other. I personally find Alps plate spring to be a bit less tactile than my preference, and find IBM and Marquardt versions to be a bit too stiff. If designing a remake, I think a new switch could potentially be better than any of these.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:35:56
If these are what I've been calling Marquardt butterfly switches....all of the yes. Do plate Alps feel like the Marquardt butterfly switches you showed me in SF?IBM (“beam spring”), Marquardt, and Alps plate spring have a similar concept (spring + buckling metal "plate"), but all three feel quite different from each other.
Stupid jacobolus...NOW I HAVE TO TRY ALPS PLATE SPRING TOO.
jk, thank you for teaching me about all these different switches
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:37:26
Unfortunately the main source of Alps plate spring (outside rare Japanese IBM boards which I have no idea how to obtain, and this model of Canon typewriter which I don’t know any other instances of) is IBM P70/P75 luggables. On those, the switches are great, but the keyboard itself is the flimsiest crap imaginable, and the keycaps are super thin PBT, also not my favorite.
I have about 3 IBM P70 keyboards (I got them cheap on ebay, because the computer part was broken), and I hope to make a custom plate spring keyboard or two Someday™ (don’t hold your breath, I’m **** at actually getting projects done).
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:39:44
CPT: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2116911#msg2116911
So cool....maybe I'll run into one of these beasts at the e-cycler or thrift.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 21 May 2016, 19:45:44
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 21 May 2016, 19:46:48
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 22 May 2016, 20:51:19
Also as a update I didn't end up getting NIB SKCL Grey off Taobao :( Turns out he ran out of stock on the switches and was just selling some random blank alps caps. Still watching the listing to see if he bumps the price back up as a sign he has more. Its not over yet!
Post by: quasistellar on Mon, 23 May 2016, 15:16:35
Post by: kiwi99 on Mon, 23 May 2016, 16:17:34
http://imgur.com/a/vdiAj more here
Post by: chyros on Mon, 23 May 2016, 18:56:52
Chyros, have you every tried out a full keyboard of Matias switches? I know you've looked at them some, but I've found typing on a switch is much different than just actuating a loose switch. For example, I thought I'd love stock MX Clears after playing with them on a switch tester, but after getting a keyboard with them, it turns out I absolutely ****ing hate them, lol!I agree, and no, unfortunately I haven't!
I asked Matias for a Matias board to review, but he didn't respond - but maybe he's afraid his product won't stand up to my rigorous testing or high standards xD .
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 23 May 2016, 19:00:56
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 23 May 2016, 19:21:34
So I bought a NeXT Non ADB board w/ SKCM Cream....What do you think? These switches are very very similar to “salmon” switches, but (assuming good condition) a bit smoother.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 23 May 2016, 19:58:04
So I bought a NeXT Non ADB board w/ SKCM Cream....What do you think? These switches are very very similar to “salmon” switches, but (assuming good condition) a bit smoother.
Hmm, have you tried them? Ordered the board last night so I haven't gotten my hands on it. Was kinda hoping they would be a bit more unique than that, but whatever. Cool to own the board the internet was created on. Aren't these related to SKCM Blue as well, from the wiki they look to be directly non clicky blues.
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/a/aa/Alps_SKCMAF_and_SKCMAG_specifications.jpg)
One thing I'd like to point out is that I think this board is somewhat rarer than we think. Another reason I picked one up now, as well as having the fun of converting it :)
Although there are plenty on ebay for whatever reason, it looks like the market is controlled by one seller, who had about 20-30ish originally? Now he is at 8-14 comparing his listings. That's for both versions btw. Besides him there are a couple others but a majority are the late SKCM Black variant and are selling for much higher prices. When that seller dries up, this board is going to be quite rare imo. Not many NeXT systems were sold let alone non-adb and also let alone the early Cream ones so it makes sense. Get them while their hot I guess. Mine was only $25. Kinda like that ebay guy with the Green SKCC IBM board.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 23 May 2016, 20:24:53
Now I just bought one before "it's too late," myself. Haha. Well, I just had to try one of the very last switches I've yet to experience in the Alps world. Now the only other ones I've got to try are the esoteric ones found in the Canon typewriter and the NEC Heavy Grey Alps switches.
And then I've tried every known-ish Alps switch.
Though there is that weird brown tactile switch with the more standard tactile leaves that one Korean site documented. No idea what's up with those, but eh.
The Alps Vortex™ is real, but I'm pretty satisfied with what I have now.
Post by: phoible on Mon, 23 May 2016, 20:39:52
All black clueboard I've been working on that uses quiet clicks, still needs a bit of work but took some pics of the progress.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oJ1hbCQ.jpg)
http://imgur.com/a/vdiAj more here
Did you leave off the top plate? Looks pretty awesome with the black bolts.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 23 May 2016, 20:50:17
Hmm, have you tried them? Ordered the board last night so I haven't gotten my hands on it. Was kinda hoping they would be a bit more unique than that, but whatever. Cool to own the board the internet was created on. Aren't these related to SKCM Blue as well, from the wiki they look to be directly non clicky blues.Actually I believe that picture in the wiki is from a few years earlier (1986–7?), showing the type of SKCM switch found in certain Canon typewriters, which uses a different slider shape and slightly stiffer spring than the “cream” switches in NeXT keyboards; it’s also a slightly different slider color. I could be wrong about that though; we don’t know too much else about that catalog picture.
The ones in early (~1989?) NeXT keyboards are nearly identical stiffness to salmon switches, but with tall switchplate and the same kind of plastics and lubricant as blue/orange/green Alps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 23 May 2016, 21:34:42
Thanks for driving up the hype, MattR! >:D
Now I just bought one before "it's too late," myself. Haha. Well, I just had to try one of the very last switches I've yet to experience in the Alps world. Now the only other ones I've got to try are the esoteric ones found in the Canon typewriter and the NEC Heavy Grey Alps switches.
And then I've tried every known-ish Alps switch.
Though there is that weird brown tactile switch with the more standard tactile leaves that one Korean site documented. No idea what's up with those, but eh.
The Alps Vortex™ is real, but I'm pretty satisfied with what I have now.
Hah, unexpected side effect. Did you get it from the ebay seller computerpowwow? (the seller I was talking about) b/c he has both and if you don't specify (like I did) you could get either version.
Yea man, you got it all. Still want to try SKCL Brown, SKCM Green, SKCL Grey. Maybe SKCL Amber and SKCL Heavy Grey, although the chances of me ever getting these last two are almost impossible since you are the only one w/ them and its the only ones but I care less about one off spacebar switches. Getting there. Want SKCL Brown and SKCM Green before I do a tour of my switch tester.
Excited to try SKCM Brown and SKCL Cream that are coming from alienman ;D
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 23 May 2016, 21:42:20
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 25 May 2016, 03:21:37
Post by: S1llyC0ne on Wed, 25 May 2016, 03:34:07
Has anyone tried removing the dampers on Matias Quiet Click? I'm in the market for a good tactile ALPS board but don't care for dampened alps much.So much cruelty in one post ! :-[
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 25 May 2016, 03:55:43
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 25 May 2016, 04:49:35
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 25 May 2016, 17:04:26
These are just ideas, I might end up liking the more cushioned feeling for all I know. I'll be getting the KBParadise V80.
Post by: NightCabbage on Wed, 25 May 2016, 19:15:11
With the Matias Clicky switch, can someone tell me where the activation and reset points are, relative to...
Top
Start of "bump"
End of "bump"
Bottom-out
Post by: mseaworthy on Wed, 25 May 2016, 19:27:19
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 25 May 2016, 20:50:34
I really love this board. SKCM Cream is hands down my favorite switch outside SKCM Blue, and that's saying a lot. SKCM Orange or Salmon has got nothing on this. They are extremely smooth and the way they actuate and pop up is glorious. I don't know what weight they are but they feel lighter than SKCM White, which is the standard Alps 70g I think? The caps are some of the best, better than Alps dyesubs? They are thicker and heavier. Text is extremely sharp. No shine at all.
Some of the caps have hand written numbers and symbols, I vaguely remember this on a another board I saw, rare I think? Chryos can you help?
My specimen is almost NIB level clean. No rust, one very minor scuff on the case and underneath the caps only a light amt of dust I removed with a air can is 5 minutes. No need to clean the caps by hand or even remove them all. Funny thing is the seller has two listings, one for nicer specimens and one that are worse that had a issue with a side that was coming apart. I bought the latter since it was cheaper, looks like I got the better one by mistake lol.
Can't wait to build a converter and use this thing :thumb:
Pics ahead.
(http://i.imgur.com/ypcz40N.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VcX86Yi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BDO5f9N.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eeg03Jc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GqD4YYj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CIL0sjU.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/T7WEgUV.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/I90uOGU.jpg)
The only grime underneath
(http://i.imgur.com/YhaBKdX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cKDVV1V.jpg?1)
PCB
(http://i.imgur.com/8KhT3Un.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/g9Rbt4V.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/kzIFGvK.jpg?1)
No shine whatsoever
(http://i.imgur.com/nUxQJDV.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 25 May 2016, 20:54:26
(http://i.imgur.com/CQ0hMsW.jpg)
edit: 13th week of 1989 it looks like.
Post by: quasistellar on Wed, 25 May 2016, 21:35:44
Has anyone tried removing the dampers on Matias Quiet Click? I'm in the market for a good tactile ALPS board but don't care for dampened alps much.
It's possible. You can also swap the sliders with Click switches
Post by: ipreferpie on Wed, 25 May 2016, 22:13:20
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 25 May 2016, 22:28:51
Matt, Thanks for that review and the heads up! Now I'm very excited to get my board. Hope I get a good copy like yours. Didn't expect the keycaps to be so nice also. How to you compare these cream switches to SKCM Browns?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You bought a NeXT as well? Lol, ever since I bought one I have seemed to bring up the hype, E3E and you.
Haven't tried SKCM Brown, but will on Saturday. Getting one sent to me.
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 25 May 2016, 23:28:50
I really love this board. SKCM Cream is hands down my favorite switch outside SKCM Blue, and that's saying a lot. SKCM Orange or Salmon has got nothing on this. They are extremely smooth and the way they actuate and pop up is glorious.These feel very similar to salmon switches IMO. Orange switches are also pretty similar, but a bit less stiff. Maybe the orange/salmon switches you tried weren’t in as nice condition?
I’m a bit jealous, because I asked the same seller to send me his two best-condition $25 boards a couple months ago, and yours seems to be in better shape than either of the them. :-)
Quote
The caps are some of the best, better than Alps dyesubs?Alps-made cylindrical doubleshot keycaps are nice, but not as nice as Alps-made dyesubs IMO. With clicky switches, I can imagine some people preferring the ABS caps for the louder sound.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 00:06:19
You bought a NeXT as well? Lol, ever since I bought one I have seemed to bring up the hype, E3E and you.
Haven't tried SKCM Brown, but will on Saturday. Getting one sent to me.
Well, it's one of the last switches I've yet to try, so I figured why not. Seeing as they are seemingly closely related to blue Alps, I can imagine them feeling similar. You might've just started a scramble for these boards though. Try not to create another bubble, a creamy tactile alps bubble. :P And yeah, I did make sure NeXT board was an "AAE" model, Mattr.
I paid for a "Nice" condition version, and so I paid $11 more plus shipping. No idea if the shipping is higher or lower for me down here, but I suspect it might be. I'm just really looking for the board to complete my main switch collection. My 2nd hotswappable Eagle is probably going to be host to mainly tactile switches. Have SKCM Brown in there now, but I'll likely swap to Salmons and Creams and Oranges, etc as time passes. Neon Greens are staying in my Docutechs though. :P
That said, I so have another backlit Alps board that I used switches that are very much on par with the SKCM Green's rarity, or close enough anyway. :P
(http://i.imgur.com/LH7VZ8s.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/D84I9O3.jpg)
This was a lot of work and I hardly took any pictures. :) IT WAS A HELL OF A LOT OF WORK, haha. These caps are fantastic for linears, but I do prefer PBT for tactile and clicky. Very quiet though.
(http://puu.sh/p31Vr/899d105111.jpg)
This is the only non-hotswappable Alps build I've made. The indicators LEDs are hotswappable though--used holtites for them.
The coiled cable is a mock up a the moment; I'm still waiting for the connectors to come in. I'm just using a throwaway USB cable at the moment, but I plan to keep the board USB and I'm not going to hardwire a cable to it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 26 May 2016, 00:36:40
I really love this board. SKCM Cream is hands down my favorite switch outside SKCM Blue, and that's saying a lot. SKCM Orange or Salmon has got nothing on this. They are extremely smooth and the way they actuate and pop up is glorious.These feel very similar to salmon switches IMO. Orange switches are also pretty similar, but a bit less stiff. Maybe the orange/salmon switches you tried weren’t in as nice condition?
I’m a bit jealous, because I asked the same seller to send me his two best-condition $25 boards a couple months ago, and yours seems to be in better shape than either of the them. :-)QuoteThe caps are some of the best, better than Alps dyesubs?Alps-made cylindrical doubleshot keycaps are nice, but not as nice as Alps-made dyesubs IMO. With clicky switches, I can imagine some people preferring the ABS caps for the louder sound.
Comparing my SGI caps I'd call them equal.
The switches do seem to be in better condition. My SKCM Oranges and Salmons are still great imo but these but I think there is another reason. I found a new variant of SKCM Cream. The wiki says SKCM Cream switches lack the Alps logo on the top, while SKCM Cream Damped switches all appear to have the Alps logo, so this may be a good visual indicator for differentiating the two switches
Well mine do have the logo up top! As seen here:
(http://i.imgur.com/UfWEcTB.jpg)
Doing some rough comparisons my SKCM Cream's seem to be heavier than Orange but lighter than Salmon. While my examples of SKCM Orange and Salmon are scratchier I blame that to condition. Need to do more testing but for sure its not 70g like Salmon or White.
You bought a NeXT as well? Lol, ever since I bought one I have seemed to bring up the hype, E3E and you.
Haven't tried SKCM Brown, but will on Saturday. Getting one sent to me.
Well, it's one of the last switches I've yet to try, so I figured why not. Seeing as they are seemingly closely related to blue Alps, I can imagine them feeling similar. You might've just started a scramble for these boards though. Try not to create another bubble, a creamy tactile alps bubble. :P And yeah, I did make sure NeXT board was an "AAE" model, Mattr.
I paid for a "Nice" condition version, and so I paid $11 more plus shipping. No idea if the shipping is higher or lower for me down here, but I suspect it might be. I'm just really looking for the board to complete my main switch collection. My 2nd hotswappable Eagle is probably going to be host to mainly tactile switches. Have SKCM Brown in there now, but I'll likely swap to Salmons and Creams and Oranges, etc as time passes. Neon Greens are staying in my Docutechs though. :P
That said, I so have another backlit Alps board that I used switches that are very much on par with the SKCM Green's rarity, or close enough anyway. :PShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/LH7VZ8s.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/D84I9O3.jpg)
This was a lot of work and I hardly took any pictures. :) IT WAS A HELL OF A LOT OF WORK, haha. These caps are fantastic for linears, but I do prefer PBT for tactile and clicky. Very quiet though.Show Image(http://puu.sh/p31Vr/899d105111.jpg)
This is the only non-hotswappable Alps build I've made. The indicators LEDs are hotswappable though--used holtites for them.
The coiled cable is a mock up a the moment; I'm still waiting for the connectors to come in. I'm just using a throwaway USB cable at the moment, but I plan to keep the board USB and I'm not going to hardwire a cable to it.
Ok good, didn't want ya to end up with SKCM Black by mistake. I think I may have started a scramble lol. People forgot all about these boards with their rare switches and awesome Alps black DS caps. All I know is that I made that sellers day! Can't wait to hear your opinions on SKCM Cream. IMHO its a great switch.
I'm not sure why but I really enjoy the NeXT itself. Think you will too. Its such a nice thing, idk how to describe it. Maybe its finally getting away from all the beige lol. The logo is amazing. The green accents also make it unique :thumb: Will you be converting it or just having it for the switches? Either way it makes a great display piece like you did w/ the Docutech's.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 00:56:43
Ok good, didn't want ya to end up with SKCM Black by mistake. I think I may have started a scramble lol. People forgot all about these boards with their rare switches and awesome Alps black DS caps. All I know is that I made that sellers day! Can't wait to hear your opinions on SKCM Cream. IMHO its a great switch.
I'm not sure why but I really enjoy the NeXT itself. Think you will too. Its such a nice thing, idk how to describe it. Maybe its finally getting away from all the beige lol. The logo is amazing. The green accents also make it unique :thumb: Will you be converting it or just having it for the switches? Either way it makes a great display piece like you did w/ the Docutech's.
I'd say Alps doubleshots and Alps dyesubs of the same profile are equals. Beyond that, it's a matter of preference. I prefer ABS for linear switches and PBT for everything else. SGI, Wang, AT101, Heath Zenith, IBM 5140, Xerox 6085 and Docutech--all of these have PBT caps from Alps Electric and they're all the same in terms of build quality and thickness. Differences being the homing area and legends and such.
Being that NeXT boards have Alps doubleshots, I'm sure they're nice. They are one of the few Alps boards I can think of with WoBish doubleshots. I've got a set of IBM Multistation spherical caps coming my way from a friend. I would love to see how the spherical dyesubs on the C.Itoh LK201 clone board are.
If the NeXT is in great condition, I'll have to consider whether or not I'd want to use it for its switches. I'll have to figure out if it beats out SKCM Brown in terms of my favorite tactile that isn't Neon Green, haha. Yeah, my 1997 model Docutech and its mouse are always on display. With that pin, it's just the nicest vintage to display, I think, plus with it's unique short left shift US layout. It's fun. :D
I wouldn't have really minded a NeXT with pine SKCM Blacks as those seem quite nice, but of course I wouldn't want to pay $53 for that. I'd settle on the $25er version for pine Blacks, haha. I've noticed these ever since you brought up SKCM Cream waaay back and I looked into it, but I was never so interested since the NeXT boards were always just sitting on eBay. Didn't care much, but after amassing a bit of a collection and with your hype, I guess now is the time. :P
I don't know if you realized up there, but that NCR keyboard is usually used with Cherry switches and caps. :P
(http://puu.sh/p1T7X/0070b9f80d.JPG)
I don't know if anyone else built something Alps-based with their Leeku 3000 PCBs back when they had Alps compatibility. I'm not even sure how many of those sold, but since, like the Duck Eagle and Lightpad and Infinity v2 PCB, it can use MX and Alps, that means it was also suitable for backlighting. Right now I've technically got four key-things suitable for backlighting, but only two actively using it.
My Lightpad, the Eagles, and the NCR build, with only the first Eagle actively using linears as well as the NCR using the brown Alps linears. The others are hotswapped so I could make them all 100% backlit, but I didn't want ALL linear builds. I used to have backlit brown linear mods on my 2nd Eagle, but I decided to go all SKCM Brown at the moment. Still need a case for that one though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 26 May 2016, 01:19:33
Ok good, didn't want ya to end up with SKCM Black by mistake. I think I may have started a scramble lol. People forgot all about these boards with their rare switches and awesome Alps black DS caps. All I know is that I made that sellers day! Can't wait to hear your opinions on SKCM Cream. IMHO its a great switch.I'd say Alps doubleshots and Alps dyesubs of the same profile are equals. Beyond that, it's a matter of preference. I prefer ABS for linear switches and PBT for everything else. SGI, Wang, AT101, Heath Zenith, IBM 5140, Xerox 6085 and Docutech--all of these have PBT caps from Alps Electric and they're all the same in terms of build quality and thickness. Differences being the homing area and legends and such.
I'm not sure why but I really enjoy the NeXT itself. Think you will too. Its such a nice thing, idk how to describe it. Maybe its finally getting away from all the beige lol. The logo is amazing. The green accents also make it unique :thumb: Will you be converting it or just having it for the switches? Either way it makes a great display piece like you did w/ the Docutech's.
Being that NeXT boards have Alps doubleshots, I'm sure they're nice. They are one of the few Alps boards I can think of with WoBish doubleshots. I've got a set of IBM Multistation spherical caps coming my way from a friend. I would love to see how the spherical dyesubs on the C.Itoh LK201 clone board are.
If the NeXT is in great condition, I'll have to consider whether or not I'd want to use it for its switches. I'll have to figure out if it beats out SKCM Brown in terms of my favorite tactile that isn't Neon Green, haha. Yeah, my 1997 model Docutech and its mouse are always on display. With that pin, it's just the nicest vintage to display, I think, plus with it's unique short left shift US layout. It's fun. :D
I wouldn't have really minded a NeXT with pine SKCM Blacks as those seem quite nice, but of course I wouldn't want to pay $53 for that. I'd settle on the $25er version for pine Blacks, haha. I've noticed these ever since you brought up SKCM Cream waaay back and I looked into it, but I was never so interested since the NeXT boards were always just sitting on eBay. Didn't care much, but after amassing a bit of a collection and with your hype, I guess now is the time. :P
I don't know if you realized up there, but that NCR keyboard is usually used with Cherry switches and caps. :PShow Image(http://puu.sh/p1T7X/0070b9f80d.JPG)
I don't know if anyone else built something Alps-based with their Leeku 3000 PCBs back when they had Alps compatibility. I'm not even sure how many of those sold, but since, like the Duck Eagle and Lightpad and Infinity v2 PCB, it can use MX and Alps, that means it was also suitable for backlighting. Right now I've technically got four key-things suitable for backlighting, but only two actively using it.
My Lightpad, the Eagles, and the NCR build, with only the first Eagle actively using linears as well as the NCR using the brown Alps linears. The others are hotswapped so I could make them all 100% backlit, but I didn't want ALL linear builds. I used to have backlit brown linear mods on my 2nd Eagle, but I decided to go all SKCM Brown at the moment. Still need a case for that one though.
That NCR uses Alps? That's trippy. What caps are those?! Cherry profile Alps?! Thats really cool.
Since I have SKCM Brown coming on Saturday from alien I will have to do the same but the other way around lol. Yea as I said earlier Alps dyesubs and DS caps are equal to me as well. I plan to build a converter with TMK and make it a daily possibly. It has almost everything there, it just needs some software to add F keys and such. Don't want to shine those like new caps however.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 01:31:53
That NCR uses Alps? That's trippy. What caps are those?! Cherry profile Alps?! Thats really cool.
Since I have SKCM Brown coming on Saturday from alien I will have to do the same but the other way around lol. Yea as I said earlier Alps dyesubs and DS caps are equal to me as well. I plan to build a converter with TMK and make it a daily possibly. It has almost everything there, it just needs some software to add F keys and such. Don't want to shine those like new caps however.
Haha, yes! It just so happens that a later variant of the FAME has Cherry profile caps that look nearly identical. There's a few legend differences, but the legend font and the thickness is practically identical. I had to stem swap the Enter, Pipe, and Right Shift keys because the FAME caps were very much BAE layout with a short shift. I also decided to stem swap Caps Lock to give it a more authentic Cherry look. Using the Brown SKCL Lock on that position even though it doesn't operate correctly. I never use Caps Lock anyway, heh. I've seen people build a circuit to handle latching switches, but a hardware wizard I am not. :P
It started as a joke. I originally wanted a 3000 PCB just to use in a vintage Alps case way back before I had my Leading Edge DC-3014 (I wanted it for the NKRO, haha), but when one finally became available for me, I really didn't have interest in doing that anymore. I noticed the Cherry profile FAME Caps and I had all the SKCL Brown switches to use (really remind me of Cherry MX Black), so I figured I might as well do something ridiculous.
THAT SAID. Jeez, I can go on forever, sorry. :P
Adafruit seems to have made a converter for the NeXT protocol from what I remember seeing a while back, so you can probably work off that if their work is openly available. The NeXT is a super cool and different board. It's like a more ambitious 65% with its lack of F row keys but with everything else. It's a very sleek and slim keyboard for the day by the look of it. I'd totally use it if it was just plug and play.
What caps are you going to use on the board? I've got some unshined AT101 caps and I threw them on my Orion v2 and pretty much immediately took them off because I didn't want to shine them, haha.
These FAME caps though, they're completely NOS, but I've pretty much decided that this board will be a very utilitarian build for me because I love using these switches and the board is light to boot. I actually don't like the look of the NCR as much as I do my other Alps boards, but due to the work put into it and the concept of it all, it's still a favorite.
Post by: NightCabbage on Thu, 26 May 2016, 02:19:28
With the Matias Clicky switch, can someone tell me where the activation and reset points are, relative to...I'd estimate it to be about 35% down from the top with a nice cushioned spring back at the bottom. It's pretty nice.
Top
Start of "bump"
End of "bump"
Bottom-out
Is the reset point the same as the activation point?
I'm just worried about too much hysteresis (like Cherry Blues, eww)
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 26 May 2016, 02:24:46
With the Matias Clicky switch, can someone tell me where the activation and reset points are, relative to...I'd estimate it to be about 35% down from the top with a nice cushioned spring back at the bottom. It's pretty nice.
Top
Start of "bump"
End of "bump"
Bottom-out
Is the reset point the same as the activation point?
I'm just worried about too much hysteresis (like Cherry Blues, eww)
Most clicky switches have some hysteresis. Matias actuate higher up than MX Blues and have shorter travel overall so there is still hysteresis but less than with MX Blues.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 02:27:49
Is the reset point the same as the activation point?
I'm just worried about too much hysteresis (like Cherry Blues, eww)
You shouldn't ever have to worry about hysteresis with Alps, though I'm not very familiar with Matias. With Alps, the actuation is high and the reset point is pretty balanced. Tactile leaves don't impede this at all.
Ultimately though, Alps are pretty impossible to not bottom out on though, so feathering keys like you can on Cherry MX switches won't work very well unless your touch is absurdly delicate. But yeah, you shouldn't notice any hysteresis at all with an Alps switch.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 26 May 2016, 02:50:21
I’ve never heard of anyone having problems with the actuation or reset point on a complicated Alps switch. Watch out for Omron, NEC, and Hi Tek switches though, which actuate a bit before the click point.
If you need control for playing a game where you need to hover superprecisely near the actuation point or where you need to mash a key as fast as possible or something, a tactile Alps switch might not be ideal; a light linear switch and an external beeper/clicker which makes a sound at the actuation point probably works better. As far as I can tell this only really applies to a tiny handful of elite videogame players on a few particular types of games though.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 26 May 2016, 03:03:00
I found a new variant of SKCM Cream. The wiki says SKCM Cream switches lack the Alps logo on the top, while SKCM Cream Damped switches all appear to have the Alps logo, so this may be a good visual indicator for differentiating the two switchesYou are talking about a different switch than the wiki is talking about. If yours have the logo on top, do they also have a tall white switchplate inside? There are also some orange and blue Alps switches with a logo on top and a tall white switchplate, I believe. The last generation before the switchover to short switchplates and new slider colors. I believe some of the NeXT keyboards still have no-logo switches with tall gray switchplates (but should be otherwise about the same as yours).
To quote myself from a few posts upthread,
Hmm, have you tried them? Ordered the board last night so I haven't gotten my hands on it. Was kinda hoping they would be a bit more unique than that, but whatever. Cool to own the board the internet was created on. Aren't these related to SKCM Blue as well, from the wiki they look to be directly non clicky blues.Actually I believe that [catalog] picture in the wiki is from a few years earlier (1986–7?), showing the type of SKCM switch found in certain Canon typewriters, which uses a different slider shape and slightly stiffer spring than the “cream” switches in NeXT keyboards; it’s also a slightly different slider color. I could be wrong about that though; we don’t know too much else about that catalog picture.
The ones in early (~1989?) NeXT keyboards are nearly identical stiffness to salmon switches, but with tall switchplate and the same kind of plastics and lubricant as blue/orange/green Alps.
Quote
Doing some rough comparisons my SKCM Cream's seem to be heavier than Orange but lighter than Salmon.That’s about right. They’re very close to salmon switches though. If you handed someone a pair of keyboards with the two switch types to try back to back, they’d have a very difficult time distinguishing the two.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 03:18:19
I haven't seen much evidence to the contrary as of yet.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 26 May 2016, 03:28:51
Snuci’s example and Mattr567’s example have almost identical switches, just produced a few months apart, one with logo on the housing and one without. Comparable to the orange or blue Alps switches with/without logos.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 03:47:09
Mattr's here is very pale: (http://i.imgur.com/UfWEcTB.jpg)
Meanwhile, the wiki's example seems a slight bit more "cream": (https://deskthority.net/w/images/5/55/Alps_SKCM_Cream_--_upper_components.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 26 May 2016, 03:52:18
http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/c1414a.htm
Seems to have no logo but a tall white switchplate. So the minor variant immediately prior to Matt’s.
So I guess what I should have said is, “the DT wiki is combining two different switches into one page.” Which is probably fine, but should be clarified. Someone should also add snuci’s or Matt’s NeXT keyboard pics to that page.
I’ll try to remember to take some pictures of the inside of a typewriter switch tomorrow.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 26 May 2016, 19:45:29
Adafruit seems to have made a converter for the NeXT protocol from what I remember seeing a while back, so you can probably work off that if their work is openly available. The NeXT is a super cool and different board. It's like a more ambitious 65% with its lack of F row keys but with everything else. It's a very sleek and slim keyboard for the day by the look of it. I'd totally use it if it was just plug and play.
What caps are you going to use on the board? I've got some unshined AT101 caps and I threw them on my Orion v2 and pretty much immediately took them off because I didn't want to shine them, haha.
These FAME caps though, they're completely NOS, but I've pretty much decided that this board will be a very utilitarian build for me because I love using these switches and the board is light to boot. I actually don't like the look of the NCR as much as I do my other Alps boards, but due to the work put into it and the concept of it all, it's still a favorite.
Hasu has TMK software for it so ill do that. With that I have the ability to fully reprogram the board and control the LEDs, for example I could have the right shift one breathe when the computers asleep. Left could be for Caps lock.
I do remember you mentioning those on DT, but I don't recall any pictures detailing those differences. Not trying to deny that though, but it's hard to say which is -the- example in the wiki article on the switches, since it could be a white balance or exposure issue that makes the switches appear that way in photos. Can you take any detailed photos showing the differences between the two top housings and perhaps the springs?
Mattr's here is very pale:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UfWEcTB.jpg)
Meanwhile, the wiki's example seems a slight bit more "cream":Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/5/55/Alps_SKCM_Cream_--_upper_components.jpg)
Here is a accurate picture SKCM Cream next to SKCM Cream Damp. SKCM Cream has a much darker slider than Dampened switches actually. My earlier pics were very blown out.
(http://i.imgur.com/YZOHEFi.jpg)
Actually, the Mousefan pictures looks like the same type of switch as the NeXT switches:
http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/c1414a.htm
Seems to have no logo but a tall white switchplate. So the minor variant immediately prior to Matt’s.
So I guess what I should have said is, “the DT wiki is combining two different switches into one page.” Which is probably fine, but should be clarified. Someone should also add snuci’s or Matt’s NeXT keyboard pics to that page.
I’ll try to remember to take some pictures of the inside of a typewriter switch tomorrow.
So it seems there are 4 versions of SKCM Cream. One is heavier from the Canon. NeXT wise there is A no logo grey plate, B no logo tall white plate or C logo tall white plate. In my case I am C w/ the tall white plate. Comparing tactile leaves SKCM Orange and Cream they look very similar. So in the Alps line up in general SKCM Cream is between Orange and Salmon in terms of weight. Now all this needs to be wikified lol.
Actually for custom Alps builds NeXT's are a very good source for switches and caps if you think about it. The switches a lot of the time are in much better condition and the weighting is perfect for a lot of users. I find SKCM Cream's weighting to be perfect. That's probably why I like them more than Orange and Salmon.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 20:41:16
(http://i.imgur.com/sAhfI3l.jpg?1)
The board was unharmed.
(http://i.imgur.com/b3PTiHb.jpg)
Here it is with is Cherry look-alike Alps brother. Alps: The Masquerade.
(http://i.imgur.com/m85UltW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BrVtNrq.jpg)
Cleaned it up a bit, but it is in good condition. Probably should've gone for a $25 model, but hey. I love the look though; very sleek design.
The rubber strip around the board is very odd, though I do like it too. The switches are really interesting. They feel around the same weight as Alps SKCM Blue, if not a wee bit stiffer. They don't feel as stiff as Salmons, in my opinion. They're pretty nice, actually. I think I'd pick them over Salmon and Orange, though it would be a close call between these and Orange Alps.
Might need to pick up a NeXT with pine blacks so that I can compare those to the rest of the tactile family. In my tests with Neon Green, you could get the same exact feel as pines or bamboos simply by switching their tops; there was no difference otherwise, so the same is probably true of pine black vs bamboo.
(http://i.imgur.com/fTS7oNC.jpg)
NEXT! :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 26 May 2016, 21:09:40
Despite coming in a "box" that looked like this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/sAhfI3l.jpg?1)
The board was unharmed.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b3PTiHb.jpg)
Here it is with is Cherry look-alike Alps brother. Alps: The Masquerade.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/m85UltW.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BrVtNrq.jpg)
Cleaned it up a bit, but it is in good condition. Probably should've gone for a $25 model, but hey. I love the look though; very sleek design.
The rubber strip around the board is very odd, though I do like it too. The switches are really interesting. They feel around the same weight as Alps SKCM Blue, if not a wee bit stiffer. They don't feel as stiff as Salmons, in my opinion. They're pretty nice, actually. I think I'd pick them over Salmon and Orange, though it would be a close call between these and Orange Alps.
Might need to pick up a NeXT with pine blacks so that I can compare those to the rest of the tactile family. In my tests with Neon Green, you could get the same exact feel as pines or bamboos simply by switching their tops; there was no difference otherwise, so the same is probably true of pine black vs bamboo.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fTS7oNC.jpg)
NEXT! :thumb:
I knew you'd like the design lol. Its so sleek. Yours looks to be in a very similar condition to mine. Whats the date on your controller? Also do your SKCM Cream's have logos?
SKCM Cream is the perfect blend of Orange and Salmon imo. So besides SKCM Neon Green this is your favorite tactile switch then? How can you get away from that logo :eek:
(http://i.imgur.com/ypcz40N.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 May 2016, 21:30:47
I knew you'd like the design lol. Its so sleek. Yours looks to be in a very similar condition to mine. Whats the date on your controller? Also do your SKCM Cream's have logos?
SKCM Cream is the perfect blend of Orange and Salmon imo. So besides SKCM Neon Green this is your favorite tactile switch then? How can you get away from that logo :eek:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ypcz40N.jpg)
I haven't opened it up yet, but I'd suspect the dates are either the same or similar enough because my switches also have Alps logos on their tops. :)
It's definitely sleek, haha. Yeah, SKCM Cream is very much an in-between and reminds me a lot of SKCM Blue, but then so does SKCM Orange. Orange is lighter where Cream might be a touch heavier.
SKCM Brown and SKCM Green are both my favorite tactile switches. If I had to pick any outside those, I'd say probably SKCM Cream and Orange. I have a feeling I'd like pine SKCM Black a lot too.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 26 May 2016, 21:32:54
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 26 May 2016, 22:40:39
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 00:15:34
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 00:17:15
Post by: need on Fri, 27 May 2016, 06:45:31
Should I build my own NeXT converter or buy one off Hasu? Both would use TMK.
Buy
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 08:12:39
Post by: dante on Fri, 27 May 2016, 10:28:16
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 May 2016, 12:17:44
So what are you going to do with it now? Convert it or showcase it?
I'm not too sure. I'm not deeply infatuated with it to the point of wanting to use the board as a daily or anything. :P
Then again, my Xerox boards, being my favorites, use a proprietary protocol and I haven't bothered with that either. I might put the NeXT on display rotation. :)
Should I build my own NeXT converter or buy one off Hasu? Both would use TMK.
It depends on whether or not you're up to the task of putting together a converter yourself. If you can build one more cheaply and have confidence in your abilities, then why not give it a shot? If, however, you want the convenience of buying a ready made converter or think that you'll screw up making one yourself, then Hasu's would be the way to go.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 18:11:22
SKCM Brown is very interesting. A tad heavier than SKCM Salmon but with a much bugger bump outside of Amber. Very snappy, reminds me of SKCM Cream in that regard but even better. Its a tossup between this and SKCM Cream. Brown is a little too heavy but I love the snappiness. Would love to use both.
SKCL Cream is a nice rarity ;D Heavier than SKCL Yellow but smoother, not SKCL Green smooth however.
Now on my list:
SKCL Grey
SKCL Brown
SKCM Black (tried but need a switch)
SKCM Green
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 May 2016, 18:23:44
Got the switches in, they make a great addition to my tester!
SKCM Brown is very interesting. A tad heavier than SKCM Salmon but with a much bugger bump outside of Amber. Very snappy, reminds me of SKCM Cream in that regard but even better. Its a tossup between this and SKCM Cream. Brown is a little too heavy but I love the snappiness. Would love to use both.
SKCL Cream is a nice rarity ;D Heavier than SKCL Yellow but smoother, not SKCL Green smooth however.
Now on my list:
SKCL Grey
SKCL Brown
SKCM Black (tried but need a switch)
SKCM Green
I'm weird with how I feel in regards to the more "standard" tactile switches that just have the bump. There's something about that rounded ramp up and drop of the Green and Brown tactile switches that I really enjoy. Pine SKCM Green feels sooo similar to SKCM Brown to me, but Brown is a bit stiffer. Still, I think if you had people sit down with both Xerox boards, the 6085 (with brown) and the Docutech (with pine), I think that they wouldn't even be able to tell the difference. They are that similar, imo.
Cream and Orange (Creamsicle!) are my favorite "standard" tactile switches, but I'm not as intrigued by them nor do I feel them as fun to type on as say, SKCM Blue or linears (or the aforementioned tactiles).
SKCM Amber is definitely THE most tactile clicky switch. Perhaps the most tactile Alps switch in general, but I'm not that sure. Definitely between that one and SKCM Brown, I'd say.
I don't see why SKCL Cream would be any less smooth than SKCL Green though, that's odd. Perhaps it's just not a switch in good condition? I find my Creams and Browns to be just as smooth, but just heavier. I've said it before, but Creams and Browns are pretty much the same weight and both have long switch plates and symmetrical sliders too.
With my thumb RSI issues, I can't type on my NCR with browns and the amber space bar switch without the thumb acting up. Hope it heals someday, ugh.
The Hammer Alps Eagle with greens and the heavy green is like a whole level lighter than the SKCL Brown and Amber NCR, The heavy green is about as heavy as a brown or just a touch lighter.
The amber is heavier than a brown, sooo... Yep, heavy. Fun, but heavy. If my thumb didn't have this issue, I'd be typing on the NCR all day. It's back to SKCL Greens for me atm, trying to stay off the thumb too.
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 27 May 2016, 19:40:48
(http://i.imgur.com/9gc9prF.jpg)
The two slider colors look slightly different from each-other in person, though they’re not too different.
Personally I’d recommend renaming the Deskthority wiki page for both of these switches to “Alps SKCM Ivory”.
I believe the top housings for the typewriter switches here and SKCM brown switches are the same, though it’s been a while since I took apart a brown switch, so I could be misremembering.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 May 2016, 20:27:20
I believe the top housings for the typewriter switches here and SKCM brown switches are the same, though it’s been a while since I took apart a brown switch, so I could be misremembering.
Great to finally see a picture of the differences between these two! :thumb:
I was going to mention the same thing about SKCM Brown tops also being symmetrical. It's very likely that they are the same, in my opinion.
What was your take on the older Ivory switch from the typewriter again? I forget how you've described it.
Also, how many of those switches were part of that typewriter? I ask because I know it has several odd switches in it, but it seems like the majority of the board used something that wasn't Alps SKCM/SKCL if I remember the pictures correctly.
Have you ever gotten yourself an Alps SKCL Brown board by the way, Jacbolous? I know you were looking for that switch from what I saw in a WTB thread a while back.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 22:55:11
Post by: ipreferpie on Sat, 28 May 2016, 07:27:40
I'm also planning my build for my upcoming VE.A board. Does anyone have comparisons of SKCM blues vs. Aristotles? Looking to find my favorite clicky :)
Post by: chyros on Sat, 28 May 2016, 10:21:39
Post by: E3E on Sat, 28 May 2016, 14:00:28
Thanks to this thread I'm becoming a true convert. And Matt, thanks for the heads up on the Next board -- can't wait to try them! Not only are SKCM browns making me rethink Zealios being my default, but the SKCL browns are reintroducing me the love of linears. If somehow I can get my hands on a neon green board, it'll complete my journey into the rabbit hole ;) Unfortunately, I won't be able to compare the SKCM ivories against the browns yet since I'm travelling. But all indications that the apparent roundedness of the browns will make me stay.
I'm also planning my build for my upcoming VE.A board. Does anyone have comparisons of SKCM blues vs. Aristotles? Looking to find my favorite clicky :)
I put vintage Cherry MX Whites in Zealio housings much like Zeal proposed an Aristotle-like clone Zealio switch. They sound is pleasant but varies heavily depending on key cap choice. Personally, I don't think either can hold a candle to SKCM Blue, and I also have to say that there isn't any other Alps clicky switch that really comes close to blues.
Alps SKCM Amber is stiff and very tactile but its click is very lackluster.
Alps SKCM White is somewhat stiff and a bit more tactile than SKCM Blue, but the click is no where near as satisfying.
Neither of these are as smooth.
I understand taking apart a Docutech for the Neon Greens if the board is absolutely tattered, but if you find one that's in decent shape and tear it apart, that'd be an injustice. :P
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 28 May 2016, 14:29:08
Post by: ipreferpie on Sun, 29 May 2016, 05:32:47
Thanks to this thread I'm becoming a true convert. And Matt, thanks for the heads up on the Next board -- can't wait to try them! Not only are SKCM browns making me rethink Zealios being my default, but the SKCL browns are reintroducing me the love of linears. If somehow I can get my hands on a neon green board, it'll complete my journey into the rabbit hole ;) Unfortunately, I won't be able to compare the SKCM ivories against the browns yet since I'm travelling. But all indications that the apparent roundedness of the browns will make me stay.
I'm also planning my build for my upcoming VE.A board. Does anyone have comparisons of SKCM blues vs. Aristotles? Looking to find my favorite clicky :)
I put vintage Cherry MX Whites in Zealio housings much like Zeal proposed an Aristotle-like clone Zealio switch. They sound is pleasant but varies heavily depending on key cap choice. Personally, I don't think either can hold a candle to SKCM Blue, and I also have to say that there isn't any other Alps clicky switch that really comes close to blues.
Alps SKCM Amber is stiff and very tactile but its click is very lackluster.
Alps SKCM White is somewhat stiff and a bit more tactile than SKCM Blue, but the click is no where near as satisfying.
Neither of these are as smooth.
I understand taking apart a Docutech for the Neon Greens if the board is absolutely tattered, but if you find one that's in decent shape and tear it apart, that'd be an injustice. :p
Thanks for that :) Likely, I'll be putting in Aristotles in my ZZ96 (since it has no ALPS support) and go for either SKCM Blues or Browns in my incoming VE.A. I guess, I've narrowed it down to these 2 and it'll be a subjective decision. But to avoid desoldering, I've ordered 2 PCBs. For the plates, do you guys suggest steel, aluminum or polycarb for the SKCMs?
And if I ever get a beautiful Docutech like yours, there will definitely be no harvesting ;)
Here's a photo of the ALPS to MX adapters that I mentioned in r/mk.
(http://i.imgur.com/9QOZV6Dl.jpg)
Gives you a general sense of the height difference. I'll kill to have a proper injection molded ones though.
Post by: Badwrench on Sun, 29 May 2016, 11:25:45
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160529/2cebb84356019939ccd84c30f1cfbbcc.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160529/a0e9ac6d12212576735164b6d8dc4544.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 29 May 2016, 11:29:22
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 29 May 2016, 14:17:03
Post by: chyros on Sun, 29 May 2016, 14:22:49
Would anyone be interested in my FK-727 w/ Cyan Omron B3G-S?Yes! :D
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 29 May 2016, 20:15:18
Model F > MX Blue > Blue Alps > every other clicky switch.(a) I assume you haven’t tried very many types of clicky switches, and (b) MX blue is a weird preference, regardless.
Anyway, if you have some good condition blue Alps switches, I’m happy to trade you some MX blue switches 1-for-1.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 29 May 2016, 20:32:31
Model F > MX Blue > Blue Alps > every other clicky switch.
(a) I assume you haven’t tried very many types of clicky switches, and (b) MX blue is a weird preference, regardless.
True that. Blue Cherry is about the worst clicky switch I have ever tried, perhaps partly because of the annoying tinny sound. Landing pads help some.
Black NMB Hi-Teks are on the heavy side but have a great solid feel.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 29 May 2016, 20:56:28
Post by: E3E on Sun, 29 May 2016, 21:51:37
I'm sure you and anyone really would. Blue alps are worth more. Maybe I'm the odd man out, but blue alps are some of the most overrated switches I've ever had the misfortune to use.
You're not alone, my man. I think Bocah and Photek would both agree with you.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 29 May 2016, 22:30:52
Overrated and overpriced? **** yes, the prices I've seen them go for is insane. Hence why i don't own one.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 29 May 2016, 22:48:38
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 29 May 2016, 23:25:06
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 29 May 2016, 23:43:15
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 29 May 2016, 23:55:03
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 30 May 2016, 00:15:17
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 30 May 2016, 00:26:32
I've looked at it, HHKB won't do it for me. It has to be TKLVery heavily debating between a Matias Quiet Click or a NovaTouch, battle of the tactiles!
hhkb
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 30 May 2016, 00:30:01
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 30 May 2016, 00:59:17
I've looked at it, HHKB won't do it for me. It has to be TKLVery heavily debating between a Matias Quiet Click or a NovaTouch, battle of the tactiles!
hhkb
Money is a little tight, which is why I'm looking at the NovaTouch.
hmm, get a hhkb? I'd gat a 55g Realforce over novatouch
Post by: E3E on Mon, 30 May 2016, 13:21:55
price is relative at this point. I have paid a lot for many things now, and if it's great , it's worth it. Just not a fan of blue alps
:thumb:
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 30 May 2016, 15:06:31
Now I just have to choose whether I want the Matias Quiet Mini or the KBParadise V80, first world problem.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 30 May 2016, 16:06:19
I feel calling SKCM Blue prices "insane" is a bit hyperbolic at this point. Yes, they are still high, but it's not difficult to get a more common board like the DC-2014 for $100-$130.
Well earlier at least. I'm talking $200+
I'm going to just go for the Matias Quiet Click. I was just playing with a Matias Click switch and love how smooth and snappy it is and I love the ever so slightly shorter travel of ALPS in general.
Now I just have to choose whether I want the Matias Quiet Mini or the KBParadise V80, first world problem.
Beware that Matias Quiet Click does not click, and the travel will feel shorter and slightly softer since it is dampened.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 30 May 2016, 16:15:19
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 30 May 2016, 16:30:16
V80 since it has a standard bottom row.
+1
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 30 May 2016, 16:33:36
(thanks for the warning though :)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 30 May 2016, 17:18:54
Well earlier at least. I'm talking $200+
They were getting crazy at one point, but I feel like it was a combination of troll bidders and collectors, perhaps desperate and/or loaded folks needing there SKCM Blue fix sprinkled in.
I'm going to just go for the Matias Quiet Click. I was just playing with a Matias Click switch and love how smooth and snappy it is and I love the ever so slightly shorter travel of ALPS in general.
Now I just have to choose whether I want the Matias Quiet Mini or the KBParadise V80, first world problem.
I guess that's pretty much the choice you have if you want to go modern. I understand possibly not having the means to desolder boards, but I would recommend using an old SKCM tactile switch series of Matias.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 30 May 2016, 18:08:01
I suppose I could just get the V80 and then some day in the future I can buy an AEK 1 and do a switch swap.
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 30 May 2016, 23:43:03
I do too, I would really like a TKL board with orange alps.
I suppose I could just get the V80 and then some day in the future I can buy an AEK 1 and do a switch swap.
Cough cough (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81608.0)
Oh my, that certainly is an annoying cough.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 31 May 2016, 02:22:44
I do too, I would really like a TKL board with orange alps.
I suppose I could just get the V80 and then some day in the future I can buy an AEK 1 and do a switch swap.
Cough cough (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81608.0)
Oh my, that certainly is an annoying cough.
I've never been involved with one of those partys/massif, how do they work?
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 31 May 2016, 11:41:14
I do too, I would really like a TKL board with orange alps.
I suppose I could just get the V80 and then some day in the future I can buy an AEK 1 and do a switch swap.
Cough cough (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81608.0)
Oh my, that certainly is an annoying cough.
I've never been involved with one of those partys/massif, how do they work?
When the GB launches, people will tell me what they want. When it is closed, I invoice participants for the cost and order the things. By buying as a group, we get a better price. It will probably take a month or two for me to get everything sent to me, then I package the orders and mail them out.
There is definitely a degree of trust involved in this, and it is a much more delayed gratification. However, if you were looking for something which you would be interested in modding, this might be something to consider.
Post by: cheddarbek on Tue, 31 May 2016, 16:03:34
I do too, I would really like a TKL board with orange alps.
I suppose I could just get the V80 and then some day in the future I can buy an AEK 1 and do a switch swap.
Cough cough (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81608.0)
Oh my, that certainly is an annoying cough.
I've never been involved with one of those partys/massif, how do they work?
When the GB launches, people will tell me what they want. When it is closed, I invoice participants for the cost and order the things. By buying as a group, we get a better price. It will probably take a month or two for me to get everything sent to me, then I package the orders and mail them out.
There is definitely a degree of trust involved in this, and it is a much more delayed gratification. However, if you were looking for something which you would be interested in modding, this might be something to consider.
Not that it's really needed, considering what a smashing success Alps Party 3 was, but I'd certainly vouch for you Blue. The guy runs one top-notch buy. A++ would join a BlueNalgene GB again.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 01 June 2016, 22:12:35
Original APL key's my ass.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 01 June 2016, 22:18:11
And those next boards are awesome. I think I might have to break down and buy one. I love the layout and it'd be nice to swap in Matias Quiets.
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 02 June 2016, 00:31:39
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 02 June 2016, 03:54:47
Post by: E3E on Thu, 02 June 2016, 06:23:22
Just finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
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Is that the new version of the Infinity with backlighting? :eek: I should've bought a PCB, damn.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 02 June 2016, 06:39:12
As far as ALPS clones go, how are the "alps.tw Type T1" ?The copper leaf ones tend to not be as good as the steel leaf ones. Best clones that have actually been used in boards that I've tried so far are Type OA2s. Quite close to white Alps, but a little lighter. Noise isn't as good though.
Post by: merlin64 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 09:19:05
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 02 June 2016, 09:28:33
Just finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Nice looking board man!
Post by: romevi on Thu, 02 June 2016, 09:39:37
Just finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
That's a nice case. Do you know who makes it?
Post by: need on Thu, 02 June 2016, 09:55:47
it looks like either tex or zyptyzeJust finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
That's a nice case. Do you know who makes it?
Post by: Badwrench on Thu, 02 June 2016, 10:01:30
Just finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Is that the new version of the Infinity with backlighting? :eek: I should've bought a PCB, damn.
Nope, it is a V1 with the plate that is a bit too thick for alps to properly lock in. Tiny bit of filing to the lock tabs on the switches made it much better, but I still will have to be careful changing caps out.
Badwrench, those switches look good :)Thank you again. I am really looking forward to using this one once the replacement caps ship from the Alpine Winter GB.
Just finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
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Nice looking board man!
Thank you. I am really pleased with the way it turned out. I am quite stoked on the dampened whites. As much as I like the Matias Quiets Clicks, I really feel that this is really what they were going for. This quieter than a full clicky switch, but still very crisp feeling, while the QC have a slight bit of a soft or mushy feel.
Just finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
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That's a nice case. Do you know who makes it?
This is the original Tex case that was on Massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-acrylic-cnc-keyboard-case (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-acrylic-cnc-keyboard-case)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 11:46:44
(http://i.imgur.com/s90QMD9.jpg)
hasu Alps64 with bluenalgene's infinity plate (thanks skaloola!) with click modded alps skcl green. feels great. Really ghetto spacebar right now, and no case, but I have an enter key and case in the mail. The keyset is from a focus 2001 and has the windows keys and application key from an omnikey 104. Really loving the 60% layout.
My other new board:
(http://i.imgur.com/LasDSrA.jpg)
neXt non ADB board, Alps SKCM cream. Feels good man. Great WoB Doubleshot alps keycaps.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 02 June 2016, 14:47:12
My new baby:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/s90QMD9.jpg)
hasu Alps64 with bluenalgene's infinity plate (thanks skaloola!) with click modded alps skcl green. feels great. Really ghetto spacebar right now, and no case, but I have an enter key and case in the mail. The keyset is from a focus 2001 and has the windows keys and application key from an omnikey 104. Really loving the 60% layout.
How on earth do you click mod a linear switch? :eek: Did you just put a top and leaf from a clicky Alps switch onto the green sliders?
My other new board:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LasDSrA.jpg)
neXt non ADB board, Alps SKCM cream. Feels good man. Great WoB Doubleshot alps keycaps.
All aboard the NeXT train!
Nope, it is a V1 with the plate that is a bit too thick for alps to properly lock in. Tiny bit of filing to the lock tabs on the switches made it much better, but I still will have to be careful changing caps out.Just finished assembling the Infinity that vivalarevelucion sent me. Built with dampened white alps and cnc acrylic case. Can't wait to get some caps on it. Really liking the feel of these switches so far.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0f9feafb4f4b8afe5363b54ddd4f45b0.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/b78313861b39049736e1dc3407584cfd.jpg)
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Is that the new version of the Infinity with backlighting? :eek: I should've bought a PCB, damn.
Oh, the PCB looked more blue than I remember it being, but it has been a bit since I've really looked at the Infinity's PCB. :P Yeah, I remember Alps not locking in too tightly with the Infinity though it wasn't too bad imo.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 15:07:59
Post by: E3E on Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:13:10
Post by: chyros on Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:31:47
Nice man, you've made your own -clicky- SKCM Green switches. I love when people experiment in this hobby. :)Speaking of clicky SKCM Green switches, I don't know if you had noticed yet, but you can't actually click-mod the ACTUAL SKCM Green, i.e. Lime, switches.
I agree btw, I love experimenting with this hobby, and Alps are perfect for that :D .
Post by: E3E on Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:36:44
Nice man, you've made your own -clicky- SKCM Green switches. I love when people experiment in this hobby. :)Speaking of clicky SKCM Green switches, I don't know if you had noticed yet, but you can't actually click-mod the ACTUAL SKCM Green, i.e. Lime, switches.
I agree btw, I love experimenting with this hobby, and Alps are perfect for that :D .
Oh really? You know, I was wondering about that since they use individual leaves unlike SKCM Brown, but after thinking about it a bit more, it did seem more unlikely thanks to the force curve/shape of the leaf. Doesn't seem like it'd create as much of a click as a click-modded tactile leaf of a standard shape.
Or did you mean to say that you CAN click mod them? I wouldn't dare try it because of the fact my switches belong to those boards, but if I had loose switches, I'd have definitely played around with the mod. :)
Yep, Alps are soooo fantastic for tinkering and modding. Love that aspect about them They're a very charming family of switches with that and all the variety they have too. :)
Post by: chyros on Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:40:47
Nope, you can snip the top AND bottom tabs off and it will do jack. Of course you can stick in a white Alps leaf but that really isn't very interesting.Nice man, you've made your own -clicky- SKCM Green switches. I love when people experiment in this hobby. :)Speaking of clicky SKCM Green switches, I don't know if you had noticed yet, but you can't actually click-mod the ACTUAL SKCM Green, i.e. Lime, switches.
I agree btw, I love experimenting with this hobby, and Alps are perfect for that :D .
Oh really? You know, I was wondering about that since they use individual leaves unlike SKCM Brown, but after thinking about it a bit more, it did seem more unlikely thanks to the force curve/shape of the leaf. Doesn't seem like it'd create as much of a click as a click-modded tactile leaf of a standard shape.
Or did you mean to say that you CAN click mod them? I wouldn't dare try it because of the fact my switches belong to those boards, but if I had loose switches, I'd have definitely played around with the mod. :)
Yep, Alps are soooo fantastic for tinkering and modding. Love that aspect about them They're a very charming family of switches with that and all the variety they have too. :)
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:49:33
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:51:44
Tonight I'm going to order a V80 with Matias Quiet, any final suggestions before I pull the trigger?
I suggest that you should just do it 'cause I like that board and those switches.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 02 June 2016, 17:18:26
Tonight I'm going to order a V80 with Matias Quiet, any final suggestions before I pull the trigger?
Given what you have said about your "true" object of desire, that will get you very close.
Also, it will be brand new, fully warranted, and zero work straight out of the box.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 02 June 2016, 17:56:57
Tonight I'm going to order a V80 with Matias Quiet, any final suggestions before I pull the trigger?
Given what you have said about your "true" object of desire, that will get you very close.
Also, it will be brand new, fully warranted, and zero work straight out of the box.
Yeppers, plus I have a good TKL PCB I can stick any switches I want in and not have to do any programming.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 02 June 2016, 18:01:03
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 18:40:58
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 19:58:36
Lol who is this. It better be one of you :p http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/wan/5612840709.htmlLmao I dont think hes gonna get too many hits based on how rare those machines are, but I respect his plight for brown alps!
Post by: E3E on Thu, 02 June 2016, 21:17:26
Lol who is this. It better be one of you :p http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/wan/5612840709.html
It's clearly someone getting psyched about the LZ Alps PCBs and Plates being shipped soon. :P
I NEED ALL THE BROWN ALPS, STAT!
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 21:32:16
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 21:47:55
What other boards other than the pc convertible did brown alps come in?
Some Xerox and Texas Instrument keyboards. Both of those are much rarer to find however than the 5140. So the 5140 is still your best bet. Craigslist is the best place to find them since ebay prices for them are really high.
Just found a $35 5140 on craigslist on the east coast and contacted the guy. Little hope though as I remember contacting him a while back and getting no reply :( There was another guy w/ 2 of 'em who lives 5 minutes away but wanted 90 for a non working one and 150 for the other. Just wanted the keyboards man! Especially from the broken ones lol.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 22:03:02
Post by: emdude on Thu, 02 June 2016, 22:35:11
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?52554-Wanted-IBM-3277-78-79-and-5251-display-terminal-keyboars
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 22:38:29
The guys at these vintage computer forums don't seem to take kindly to "keyboard poachers." :PHaha theyre really nice guys over there, and I honestly cant blame them. I have a small collection of vintage pcs that they have helped me tremendously in the past with.
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?52554-Wanted-IBM-3277-78-79-and-5251-display-terminal-keyboars
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 22:40:46
Post by: emdude on Thu, 02 June 2016, 22:45:40
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 22:49:29
Post by: kiwi99 on Fri, 03 June 2016, 00:06:03
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 03 June 2016, 00:33:44
Post by: merlin64 on Fri, 03 June 2016, 09:36:35
Alps is like cocaine. once you try it youre terribly addicted. Atleast with BS there was only a few boards made, that kept the wallethacking to a manageable level. I just cant stop with these alps boards. Someone needs to get me an intervention.
For me, it started with looking for tactility which I could not find even on MX clears. I went from SKCM Black -> SKCM White Damped, then found a SKCM Brown, but settled on a SKCM Orange for daily driver at work, then found a SKCM blue just for the novelty and am currently gathering SKCL greens for another alps build.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 03 June 2016, 09:56:29
And the hole goes way deeper even than that xD .Alps is like cocaine. once you try it youre terribly addicted. Atleast with BS there was only a few boards made, that kept the wallethacking to a manageable level. I just cant stop with these alps boards. Someone needs to get me an intervention.
For me, it started with looking for tactility which I could not find even on MX clears. I went from SKCM Black -> SKCM White Damped, then found a SKCM Brown, but settled on a SKCM Orange for daily driver at work, then found a SKCM blue just for the novelty and am currently gathering SKCL greens for another alps build.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 03 June 2016, 10:16:04
Have you gotten your hands on a skfl board yet? If so I would love to see it reviewed!And the hole goes way deeper even than that xD .Alps is like cocaine. once you try it youre terribly addicted. Atleast with BS there was only a few boards made, that kept the wallethacking to a manageable level. I just cant stop with these alps boards. Someone needs to get me an intervention.
For me, it started with looking for tactility which I could not find even on MX clears. I went from SKCM Black -> SKCM White Damped, then found a SKCM Brown, but settled on a SKCM Orange for daily driver at work, then found a SKCM blue just for the novelty and am currently gathering SKCL greens for another alps build.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 03 June 2016, 10:54:32
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 03 June 2016, 10:55:59
Personally, I find SKFL/SKFS to be very underwhelming compared to SKCL/SKCM.Ive never tried them, and any review by chyros is a good review. what are they like though? Ive heard theyre super smooth
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 03 June 2016, 11:43:10
Post by: chyros on Fri, 03 June 2016, 13:13:31
Nope, not yet!Have you gotten your hands on a skfl board yet? If so I would love to see it reviewed!And the hole goes way deeper even than that xD .Alps is like cocaine. once you try it youre terribly addicted. Atleast with BS there was only a few boards made, that kept the wallethacking to a manageable level. I just cant stop with these alps boards. Someone needs to get me an intervention.
For me, it started with looking for tactility which I could not find even on MX clears. I went from SKCM Black -> SKCM White Damped, then found a SKCM Brown, but settled on a SKCM Orange for daily driver at work, then found a SKCM blue just for the novelty and am currently gathering SKCL greens for another alps build.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 03 June 2016, 13:34:51
does anyone know what sized LEDs fit in the SKCL Greens? I'm tempted to pick up a few for some indicator switches and jerry rig something.
You're going to want some 2x5x7mm rectangular LEDs. (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.X2x5x7mm+led.TRS0&_nkw=2x5x7mm+led&_sacat=0) :)
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:21:13
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:21:30
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:25:20
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:25:42
Beautiful board. Nice job
Where did you get the PCB?
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:28:24
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:45:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:46:17
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/clt/5611418321.html
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 20:53:07
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 21:10:22
I didn't realize how crazy I'd gotten with Alps... Most of these are Alps boards.
(http://i.imgur.com/MiVwBRF.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 04 June 2016, 22:03:04
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 04 June 2016, 22:50:56
Does anyone know a way to buy a V60 MTS PCB? Need to replace my current one to finish my SKCL Green led swap. :(
I don't think there is a way to directly, you could try contacting them http://www.kbp.com.tw/ but no guarantees.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 01:22:17
Does anyone know a way to buy a V60 MTS PCB? Need to replace my current one to finish my SKCL Green led swap. :(
I don't think there is a way to directly, you could try contacting them http://www.kbp.com.tw/ but no guarantees.
Way ahead of you on that. The most promising email was that I would be added to the next production list, since they didn't have any on hand. They never responded after. I might just have to buy another V60, disassemble it and sell the switches caps and plate etc. Sucks but thats the only way I see it right now. the board works actually expect for the win keys, but the thing is a sea of wires anyway. Dont have the resistors in for the LED's.
The other option is to say fu to win keys, and add them anyway. However I think there might be some more damage, like a pulled resistor pad or led leg pad so I don't trust it. Rather start from scratch and have a clean build. At least I learned a hell of a lot about soldering, when I swapped my SGI w/ SKCM Orange it was perfect.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 05 June 2016, 01:48:57
I
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 16:32:54
That's kind of what I've done. I recently purchased a V80 so I could try Matias Quiet Clicks but also so I have a nice TKL ALPS PCB/Plate I can use in the future.How did you like the quiet clicks? personally I didnt like the ones I had at all. My alps64 kit came with them and I alreadyy traded them away.
I
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:06:37
(http://i.imgur.com/dnt6JYJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hdWOl92.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/392sg8m.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:20:00
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:25:46
Did this today :D SGI Granite finally got what it deserved. A proper retr0bright!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dnt6JYJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hdWOl92.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/392sg8m.jpg)
nice work matt!
Thanks. Now have to do my Focus FK-3001. Much bigger pain. All the caps and having to take apart the calculator a bit to get all the trim bits. Will look great when finished.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:28:47
That's kind of what I've done. I recently purchased a V80 so I could try Matias Quiet Clicks but also so I have a nice TKL ALPS PCB/Plate I can use in the future.How did you like the quiet clicks? personally I didnt like the ones I had at all. My alps64 kit came with them and I alreadyy traded them away.
I
They haven't arrived yet, they should hopefully come tomorrow, if not, probably Tuesday. I have heard them be compared to ergo modded MX Clears with O-Rings.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:36:50
Did this today :D SGI Granite finally got what it deserved. A proper retr0bright!Absolutely beautiful.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dnt6JYJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hdWOl92.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/392sg8m.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Mon, 06 June 2016, 02:24:25
Post by: need on Mon, 06 June 2016, 13:27:16
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 07 June 2016, 16:09:14
Here's a moneyshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZGmAGjR.jpg)
I replaced some keys with an incomplete set of thin ABS doubleshots I have from a butchered FK-2001. The stock keycaps are even thinner than the ones on the Focus's though they actually feel somewhat denser. I'm fond of the colored shift and escape key myself.
The build quality of the rest of the board is excellent though, it has a good amount of weight to it and doesn't flex at all. Furthermore the keyboard's finish is very slick matte black.
I really like these Matias, the tactility is stronger than I was expecting. I don't really care for the dampening though and I'll probably pop out the bumpers on the slider. The keycaps from the Focus give it a kind of neat sound I can't describe. They are really smooth and when I opened up a switch it felt like there was a very small amount of lubricant on the slider. Has Matias always done this?
The spacebar is also lovely, not rattly and doesn't sound much different than normal keys. The other stabilized keys are kind of rattly though.
Here's a close up of the keycaps, the Focus ones need a light wash and you can see some nicks too, scars of the past!
(http://i.imgur.com/dnsTmeT.jpg)
Overall I'm happy with this board and would gladly recommend it and it's switches to anyone.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:03:12
After all the work to get him to sell it separately and for that price it gets stolen right from under me. ****ing ****. What are the chances of that happening?! Now I have messaged the seller back after he told me this saying that this wasn't fair since I had made the whole thing even possible in the first place and that it is just rather unfortunate timing. Also said that I would match his price if need be.
I would of totally undestood if the whole pc got bought during that time since he would of gotten his full price, but just what I had done? ****kkk that! Hope that buyer enjoys his stinking keyboard if he gets it.
rant over
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:20:42
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:21:14
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:24:22
Keyfeel is much lighter.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:25:01
What you don't know is that the seller lied and it's a rare rubber dome variant.
Lol. It looks like this btw
(http://www.recycledgoods.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1000x/af097278c5db4767b0fe9bb92fe21690/p/h/philips-magnavox-pf7715be01-word-processor-videowriter-3.18.jpg)
I cannot believe I was completely ****ed out of a keyboard. I had convinced a ebay seller to sell me a Magnavox Videowriter keyboard (SKCM Brown) separate from the rest of the system for $14. He changed the listing to just the board and as we were getting the shipping and final details worked out some **** bought it right from under me in that very short timespan between changing the listing and correcting the final details of it. :mad: The final price wasn't worked out so it was bought for $25.
After all the work to get him to sell it separately and for that price it gets stolen right from under me. ****ing ****. What are the chances of that happening?! Now I have messaged the seller back after he told me this saying that this wasn't fair since I had made the whole thing even possible in the first place and that it is just rather unfortunate timing. Also said that I would match his price if need be.
I would of totally undestood if the whole pc got bought during that time since he would of gotten his full price, but just what I had done? ****kkk that! Hope that buyer enjoys his stinking keyboard if he gets it.
rant over
I usually just pay in full then ask for a shipping refund. I suppose that wasn't the case here. Sorry to hear this.
Yea. Maybe the seller has morals and will give it to me. We'll see. Otherwise someone takes the prize that all my hard work went into.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:29:00
He changed the listing to just the board and as we were getting the shipping and final details worked out some **** bought it right from under me in that very short timespan between changing the listing and correcting the final details of it.
I get very nervous whenever I am involved in a private side deal like this, especially when the back-and-forth is not happening in near real time. But - a deal is a deal. I would raise holy hell with ebay if the seller tried to give it to somebody else after I paid my money.
The better way to do it is to change the original listing to say "no longer available" and have the seller invoice the buyer. Ebay may have a mechanism to make that difficult, I have never done it as a seller on ebay.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:37:53
He changed the listing to just the board and as we were getting the shipping and final details worked out some **** bought it right from under me in that very short timespan between changing the listing and correcting the final details of it.
I get very nervous whenever I am involved in a private side deal like this, especially when the back-and-forth is not happening in near real time. But - a deal is a deal. I would raise holy hell with ebay if the seller tried to give it to somebody else after I paid my money.
The better way to do it is to change the original listing to say "no longer available" and have the seller invoice the buyer. Ebay may have a mechanism to make that difficult, I have never done it as a seller on ebay.
Yea, I was nervous as hell. Why would he change the listing before the shipping was worked out? Its still pretty amazing that someone searched and bought one in that 5-10min however. If you were the seller in this situation, what would you do?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 07 June 2016, 20:06:31
If you were the seller in this situation, what would you do?
I would honor the sale, of course. You were just unlucky.
People scour ebay looking for bargains, you never know whether it will sit there for 8 seconds or 8 weeks.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 09 June 2016, 00:17:28
Amber switches are quite a bit stiffer than blue switches, stiffness similar to early clicky white Alps or even slightly stiffer, with a much snappier and louder click. Blue switches are elegant and understated, amber switches get up in your face.
People who like white Alps, Matias clicky, Model F, amber Omrons, or Cherry MX green would probably like amber Alps. People who like blue Alps might or might not.
Ambers are indeed "up in your face". They have a bold click that's pretty noticeable. I've never had a keyboard with Alps Blue switches. I have keyboards with other Alps (Other Apple keyboards), but those are not clicky switches. What I did do, was make a comparison video between my Danger Zone custom 75% + 1 keyboard project with Gateron Blue switches, and my Apple //c keyboard with the Alps Amber switches. The Alps Amber definitely take more force to press passed the click. I personally like it. I used some Shapeways C64 to MX stem adapters and threw some Commodore 64 keys on my Danger Zone keyboard (since the Danger Zone key caps won't show up till next month).
I am quite curious, I saw your Apple IIc Bluetooth custom build in your signature and I was wondering how that was coming along for you? ;D
It looks really neat and it's super nice to see another SKCM Amber owner do something with their original board since it certainly is fun to use. Right now I have my IIc keyboard sitting around and I do not want to harvest the switches and give up using the neat key caps and layout in doing so! :-\
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 09 June 2016, 02:55:41
Post by: emdude on Thu, 09 June 2016, 03:10:42
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 09 June 2016, 03:22:24
I think it has to do with the dampening. ALPS bump and tactility is already higher up in the keystroke and since they are dampened upwards as well this means the switch is slightly more depressed in its resting position (kind of like dental banded Topre) so this makes the bump feel even higher up.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 June 2016, 10:32:26
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 June 2016, 22:18:40
Post by: emdude on Thu, 09 June 2016, 22:51:10
You'll have a very fun time trying to get an Apple IIc with SKCM Ambers though.. :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 June 2016, 23:08:05
They're an interesting switch, but as E3E pointed out when he tried them a while back, the click is somewhat hollow-sounding and not quite as satisfying as SKCM Blues; I don't dislike them myself though.
You'll have a very fun time trying to get an Apple IIc with SKCM Ambers though.. :p
Like getting a 5140 board is any easier lol, so many ebay idiots thinking their 5140 is worth $100+. Actually a good amt of beat up IIC's come though for super cheap with broken caps, so I can tell if they have Ambers without even asking lol.
They feel kinda hollow in my switch tester, but the plate is cheap and thin so not very representative. With the switch flat on my desk w/ a cap they feel really nice.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 09 June 2016, 23:12:08
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 09 June 2016, 23:32:59
(http://i.imgur.com/YnvrRZn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/49seMqb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/axCI5U9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/11MNBGz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vLVTYgA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iQx28Z8.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 10 June 2016, 05:56:01
Like getting a 5140 board is any easier lol, so many ebay idiots thinking their 5140 is worth $100+. Actually a good amt of beat up IIC's come though for super cheap with broken caps, so I can tell if they have Ambers without even asking lol.
They feel kinda hollow in my switch tester, but the plate is cheap and thin so not very representative. With the switch flat on my desk w/ a cap they feel really nice.
They are quite hollow in terms of sound and leave more to be desired, but I am eager to try them one more time with my IBM Multistation spherical hi pro caps and if they prove to be enjoyable, I'll likely make permanent build with them and those caps. If not, I'll sell them off again.
The 5140, IIc, P70, and most luggables or computer systems like that are always so crazy in their price ranges. They're rarely actually hard to find, but what is difficult is finding one for a reasonable price. The Bondwell 8T PRO with its cream linears is probably the rarest of the Alps-based systems, I think. I've barely seen them.
I'm also curious of what other Bondwells might have Alps. I saw another widescreen model with caps that seemed just like the 8T PRO's.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 09:10:04
Ill have to check out my 8088 compaq portable, Pretty sure it doesnt have alps though. I do agree that old portables are probably the best way to find these obscure alps switches. I can only hope to be as lucky as this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yndCXP0ZkOQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yndCXP0ZkOQ)
Like getting a 5140 board is any easier lol, so many ebay idiots thinking their 5140 is worth $100+. Actually a good amt of beat up IIC's come though for super cheap with broken caps, so I can tell if they have Ambers without even asking lol.
They feel kinda hollow in my switch tester, but the plate is cheap and thin so not very representative. With the switch flat on my desk w/ a cap they feel really nice.
They are quite hollow in terms of sound and leave more to be desired, but I am eager to try them one more time with my IBM Multistation spherical hi pro caps and if they prove to be enjoyable, I'll likely make permanent build with them and those caps. If not, I'll sell them off again.
The 5140, IIc, P70, and most luggables or computer systems like that are always so crazy in their price ranges. They're rarely actually hard to find, but what is difficult is finding one for a reasonable price. The Bondwell 8T PRO with its cream linears is probably the rarest of the Alps-based systems, I think. I've barely seen them.
I'm also curious of what other Bondwells might have Alps. I saw another widescreen model with caps that seemed just like the 8T PRO's.
Post by: lootbag on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:06:37
It has been a little difficult to find a HHKB layout 60% ALPS plate in metal and as you can see I really like my HHKB layout.
Should I go ahead and build my TMK ALPS64 with this 1.5mm acrylic plate?
I wonder how it will feel with the acrylic plate... will I regret it?
Will be using green alps!
(http://i.imgur.com/6w196h0.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:11:30
Sooo, I need an opinion.Bluenalgene ran a GB for aluminum plates for the alps64 awhile back. and I think there were hhkb layout plates available. Im sure there are some people that havent built their boards yet and will sell you their plate. I bought mine off of a member recently, but mine is the infinity hacker layout. Put a wanted ad in classifieds, maybe youll get lucky.
It has been a little difficult to find a HHKB layout 60% ALPS plate in metal and as you can see I really like my HHKB layout.
Should I go ahead and build my TMK ALPS64 with this 1.5mm acrylic plate?
I wonder how it will feel with the acrylic plate... will I regret it?
Will be using green alps!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6w196h0.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: lootbag on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:18:44
Bluenalgene ran a GB for aluminum plates for the alps64 awhile back. and I think there were hhkb layout plates available. Im sure there are some people that havent built their boards yet and will sell you their plate. I bought mine off of a member recently, but mine is the infinity hacker layout. Put a wanted ad in classifieds, maybe youll get lucky.
Yeah but I am not sure if he will run another GB anytime soon.
Guess I could post a WTB for a HHKB plate.
The infinity hacker plate uses the cherry stabilizers, 6x spacebar, etc. and makes it a little harder to source caps.
I am trying to stick to a more standard bottom row and want to use the spacebar stabilizer and bottom row caps from a AT101.
Maybe I will try Taobao and contact a sheet metal company in Shenzhen since I am in Hong Kong.
But back to the acrylic plate... I wonder how it'll feel haha.
I already know what to expect from using a steel plate with the green alps.
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:33:51
Bluenalgene ran a GB for aluminum plates for the alps64 awhile back. and I think there were hhkb layout plates available. Im sure there are some people that havent built their boards yet and will sell you their plate. I bought mine off of a member recently, but mine is the infinity hacker layout. Put a wanted ad in classifieds, maybe youll get lucky.
Yeah but I am not sure if he will run another GB anytime soon.
Guess I could post a WTB for a HHKB plate.
The infinity hacker plate uses the cherry stabilizers, 6x spacebar, etc. and makes it a little harder to source caps.
I am trying to stick to a more standard bottom row and want to use the spacebar stabilizer and bottom row caps from a AT101.
Maybe I will try Taobao and contact a sheet metal company in Shenzhen since I am in Hong Kong.
But back to the acrylic plate... I wonder how it'll feel haha.
I already know what to expect from using a steel plate with the green alps.
Just solder a few in and see how they feel. If you like it, continue. If not, pull them back out and see if someone will trade your acrylic for a steel one.
Post by: lootbag on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:40:44
Just solder a few in and see how they feel. If you like it, continue. If not, pull them back out and see if someone will trade your acrylic for a steel one.
Aha, good idea.
I just used scrap acrylic on the university's laser cutters to whip up the plate, so no loss for me.
But first, need to order that elcheapo $7 USD plastic case from Taobao so I can get the full effect of all the plastic thock/clack.
Maybe I will end up liking it over the traditional metal plate.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:41:44
no, the infinity uses alps stabs. I took most of the caps on mine from a avant prime omnikey 104. It has normal bottom row mods except for 1u windows keys and a 1u application key. Im working on cutting a custom 6u spacebar for mine. Ill post a pic when I get back home and on a computer.Bluenalgene ran a GB for aluminum plates for the alps64 awhile back. and I think there were hhkb layout plates available. Im sure there are some people that havent built their boards yet and will sell you their plate. I bought mine off of a member recently, but mine is the infinity hacker layout. Put a wanted ad in classifieds, maybe youll get lucky.
Yeah but I am not sure if he will run another GB anytime soon.
Guess I could post a WTB for a HHKB plate.
The infinity hacker plate uses the cherry stabilizers, 6x spacebar, etc. and makes it a little harder to source caps.
I am trying to stick to a more standard bottom row and want to use the spacebar stabilizer and bottom row caps from a AT101.
Maybe I will try Taobao and contact a sheet metal company in Shenzhen since I am in Hong Kong.
But back to the acrylic plate... I wonder how it'll feel haha.
I already know what to expect from using a steel plate with the green alps.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:59:35
(http://i.imgur.com/TMW9gZC.jpg)
Post by: lootbag on Fri, 10 June 2016, 19:13:04
As promised, heres a pic.
Looks good!
But I am still too lazy to work out the 6u spacebar.
Will post again once I have my build sorted out.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 21:12:34
(http://tr3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2008/10/16/aff872b8-c3b6-11e2-bc00-02911874f8c8/2ca031d1dfd9058e6991ac82126b566a/DSC_0041.jpg)
Post by: emdude on Fri, 10 June 2016, 21:19:43
(http://i.imgur.com/KfWE9TI.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 21:39:19
Probably not, here's the same image color-corrected. According to the DT Wiki, they only came in Cream and Gray variants.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KfWE9TI.jpg)
I don't think so, still looks amber to me. E3E found a SKCL Brown Lock, so I think there are more out there.
(http://i.imgur.com/eEKaBdL.jpg)
Post by: emdude on Fri, 10 June 2016, 21:45:29
EDIT: I will leave this direct comparison of the sliders here though. If someone like E3E or Jacobolus knows something about it, please correct me!
(http://i.imgur.com/PBevIUt.jpg)
Post by: losing_ctrl on Fri, 10 June 2016, 22:36:46
I received my V80 today with the Matias Quiet Clicks!
Here's a moneyshot:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZGmAGjR.jpg)
I replaced some keys with an incomplete set of thin ABS doubleshots I have from a butchered FK-2001. The stock keycaps are even thinner than the ones on the Focus's though they actually feel somewhat denser. I'm fond of the colored shift and escape key myself.
The build quality of the rest of the board is excellent though, it has a good amount of weight to it and doesn't flex at all. Furthermore the keyboard's finish is very slick matte black.
I really like these Matias, the tactility is stronger than I was expecting. I don't really care for the dampening though and I'll probably pop out the bumpers on the slider. The keycaps from the Focus give it a kind of neat sound I can't describe. They are really smooth and when I opened up a switch it felt like there was a very small amount of lubricant on the slider. Has Matias always done this?
The spacebar is also lovely, not rattly and doesn't sound much different than normal keys. The other stabilized keys are kind of rattly though.
Here's a close up of the keycaps, the Focus ones need a light wash and you can see some nicks too, scars of the past!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dnsTmeT.jpg)
Overall I'm happy with this board and would gladly recommend it and it's switches to anyone.
Great first impressions, thanks for sharing. Those keycaps look great, they really provide a lot of personality to an otherwise brand new board. I just received my own V80 with Quiet Clicks yesterday with the Tai-Hao psuedo-Dolch caps. I'm definitely agreeing with your positive first impressions. Like everybody else I wish there were much more Alps keycap choices.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 10 June 2016, 22:42:13
I really hope this is true, but we'll see I guess.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 10 June 2016, 23:17:13
Finally got a case for my second Alps Duck Eagle that I hotswap modded along with the original.
And it matches Alpine Winter very well! :D
Of course the cable or wrist rest doesn't match, but hey. :P I'll have to get some paracord again and a white rest or something.
(http://i.imgur.com/nOfBWwk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ue0rOXt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WGSRVBc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PRriGpZ.jpg)
It's an FMJ design #1. :D
Using SKCM Brown at the moment:
(http://puu.sh/pou5a/6f3ae349db.JPG)
I tried this with like three or four different cap OG Alps sets mixed with the Badwrench DCS mod pack and Alpine Winter mods before I decided to just put Alpine Winter on entirely. :-\
I tried the NeXT WoB for the Alphas, my dyed IBM 5140 PBT caps, Dell AT101 caps, but I wasn't entirely satisfied with any of them for the aesthetic.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 10 June 2016, 23:27:00
I'm curious, in what color(s) did you dye your 5140 key caps?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 10 June 2016, 23:32:06
Looks fantastic! Very jealous. ;D
I'm curious, in what color(s) did you dye your 5140 key caps?
Thanks emdude. I'm very happy to finally have a case for my other Eagle, and one that can rival the Hammer to boot (that one's still my favorite though :P)
Hey, you're the one who got all those beamsprings though, right? That's an amazing find in itself!
I just dyed them black. Kind of on impulse when I was dyeing another set of Dell AT101 caps black for my Orion v2. I wanted to see how the IBM 5140s compared. The Dell caps dye with a blueish hue. The 5140 caps have a more neutral greyish/black hue.
(http://i.imgur.com/xHDxThU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/S4p1EDJ.jpg)
The number pad you see uses dyed AT101 caps, but you really can't tell the difference unless you put them under bright white lighting. Very subtle.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 10 June 2016, 23:38:04
Probably not, here's the same image color-corrected. According to the DT Wiki, they only came in Cream and Gray variants.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KfWE9TI.jpg)
I don't think so, still looks amber to me. E3E found a SKCL Brown Lock, so I think there are more out there.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/eEKaBdL.jpg)
Hey, I apologize for the doublepost, but I had an Apple IIc A2S4100 and it had about three SKCL Lock switches, if I remember correctly. They were all cream! I think it's just color inaccuracies in the photo like emdude pointed out.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 10 June 2016, 23:42:39
Looks fantastic! Very jealous. ;D
I'm curious, in what color(s) did you dye your 5140 key caps?
Thanks emdude. I'm very happy to finally have a case for my other Eagle, and one that can rival the Hammer to boot (that one's still my favorite though :P)
Hey, you're the one who got all those beamsprings though, right? That's an amazing find in itself!
I just dyed them black. Kind of on impulse when I was dyeing another set of Dell AT101 caps black for my Orion v2. I wanted to see how the IBM 5140s compared. The Dell caps dye with a blueish hue. The 5140 caps have a more neutral greyish/black hue.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xHDxThU.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/S4p1EDJ.jpg)
The number pad you see uses dyed AT101 caps, but you really can't tell the difference unless you put them under bright white lighting. Very subtle.
Thanks for the extra pics. I have two Alps64s in the pipeline myself, both of which are to use cheap plastic cases, but to be honest, your Hammer and Duck Eagle is making me want to invest in nice aluminum cases.. :-[ I think I'll have to look into how those sort of cases affect sound and such first.
I definitely can't wait to work on my beam springs though, only a few more days..
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 11 June 2016, 00:11:51
sions, thanks for sharing. Those keycaps look great, they really provide a lot of personality to an otherwise brand new board. I just received my own V80 with Quiet Clicks yesterday with the Tai-Hao psuedo-Dolch caps. I'm definitely agreeing with your positive first impressions. Like everybody else I wish there were much more Alps keycap choices.
I don't actually like the dampening too much so I might do a switch swap with some other tactile ALPS switch in the future. Possibly an AEK I with SKCM Oranges.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 11 June 2016, 00:46:04
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 11 June 2016, 01:02:38
Post by: losing_ctrl on Sat, 11 June 2016, 10:31:53
sions, thanks for sharing. Those keycaps look great, they really provide a lot of personality to an otherwise brand new board. I just received my own V80 with Quiet Clicks yesterday with the Tai-Hao psuedo-Dolch caps. I'm definitely agreeing with your positive first impressions. Like everybody else I wish there were much more Alps keycap choices.
I don't actually like the dampening too much so I might do a switch swap with some other tactile ALPS switch in the future. Possibly an AEK I with SKCM Oranges.
I hear you, but wouldn't that make the switch louder, thereby taking the quiet out of the quiet clicks? Have you tried the normal tactile clicks? I chose the quiet clicks feeling like I was willing to give up a bit of tactility to get a quieter switch.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 11 June 2016, 12:24:14
Sooo, I need an opinion.Linear is not for everyone, so no guarantees.... But as for as linears go, it's hard to go wrong with Alps xD .
It has been a little difficult to find a HHKB layout 60% ALPS plate in metal and as you can see I really like my HHKB layout.
Should I go ahead and build my TMK ALPS64 with this 1.5mm acrylic plate?
I wonder how it will feel with the acrylic plate... will I regret it?
Will be using green alps!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6w196h0.jpg)
damn e3e why do you have to have all the brown alps! save some for me! :pI know right, he's a hoarder! He's holding all the Lime ones too :p .
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 18:56:59
(http://i.imgur.com/VNuUFh7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/C2LjQ7p.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8vkarju.jpg)
frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube]
Post by: chyros on Sun, 12 June 2016, 19:01:10
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 19:01:53
Ze ping and ze click, what a combo ;D .and youre gonna get to play with it in a few weeks, as promised.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 19:23:10
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 22:57:13
Just finished my alps64 today, complete with click modded SKCL greens. I couldnt find a spacebar that would work for the infinity layout, so I modded an OG Focus spacebar from the fk2001 I stiole the caps from. It doesnt look good, but maybe someday I will find a correctly colored 6u spacebar, Here is a few pics. I also have a sound recording of the switches.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VNuUFh7.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C2LjQ7p.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8vkarju.jpg)
frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube]
Wow, thats really interesting. Where did you get the clicky leaves from? SKCM White?
Post by: emdude on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:13:37
The ping is also interesting.. How exactly do you feel about it?
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:17:28
Yup, took the click leaves and top housings from a fk2001.Just finished my alps64 today, complete with click modded SKCL greens. I couldnt find a spacebar that would work for the infinity layout, so I modded an OG Focus spacebar from the fk2001 I stiole the caps from. It doesnt look good, but maybe someday I will find a correctly colored 6u spacebar, Here is a few pics. I also have a sound recording of the switches.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VNuUFh7.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C2LjQ7p.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/8vkarju.jpg)
frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/youtube]
Wow, thats really interesting. Where did you get the clicky leaves from? SKCM White?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:20:59
Looks great, mike! If Alpine Spring (or some other Alps GB) happens, perhaps you can get a proper 6u space bar (and nice new caps)!I love the ping. maybe thats why I love model f buckling spring too. I would like to get my hands on a new keyset, but I have a real soft spot for og multi colored focus doubleshots. theyre really sweet caps. the spacebar on the other hand, I would love to replace. but afaik there werent any vintage alps boards made with a 6u spacebar.
The ping is also interesting.. How exactly do you feel about it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:24:15
Post by: quasistellar on Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:37:47
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:45:07
Post by: quasistellar on Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:51:11
Post by: E3E on Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:53:03
Quick question: what's the lightest tactile Alps switch? Is it brown? I'm trying to think about another switch to try if I find that quiet clicks are too heavy.
SKCM Orange without a doubt if we're talking spring weight alone.
That's a little disappointing -- aren't orange around 60gf for actuation?
55-60g, but if you want lighter, you can pop in SKCL green springs which are 45-50g. I've heard Matias linears are even lighter so you might want to take a look at them, but I could be wrong. I don't know much about Matias at the moment.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 13 June 2016, 13:20:14
There are a lot of different Alps spacebar sizes. I’m sure I’ve seen 4.75u, 5u, 5.25u. Not 100% sure about 6u, but I suspect there’s probably one somewhere.
I know that Signature Plastics (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/) sells Alps spacebars in 6u in their various profiles, it would just be a matter of finding the color you are looking for @mike52787.
I've heard Matias linears are even lighter so you might want to take a look at them, but I could be wrong. I don't know much about Matias at the moment.
Matias accidentally sent me their linear switches awhile ago when I bought my QCs from them. Having tried them and SKCL greens I can attest to the fact that, at the very least, Matias Linear switches feel lighter. I am not sure if this is an aging related issue, but the linear switches were smooth like butter and very light, not unlike Gateron Clears (perhaps even lighter, if that's possible). I wish I would've saved a few so I could test 'em again.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 13 June 2016, 13:30:42
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 13 June 2016, 13:38:54
The Matias are all around 60g respectively.
I don't think the quiet linears are, Matias' website lists them as 35 +/- 5 gf. Like I said, they felt very comparable to Gateron Clears.
[attach=1]
Post by: quasistellar on Mon, 13 June 2016, 13:54:48
Once I build my infinity I'll have to give Orange a try to compare. I'm basically wanting a unicorn: tactile Alps at 45g.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 18:18:29
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 18:25:25
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 18:56:58
I miss my AEKII, think ill buy another one.
the switches in that are so bad :( at least to me.
I assume your talking about SKCM Cream Damp. Dirty ones feel bad but clean nice ones feel pretty good actually. Its also that I also miss the board itself. Since I sold it I have had the opportunity to try many more Alps switches so I think my opinion has shifted.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 18:58:43
Ive never personally tried them but I like regular cream. How do they stack up?I miss my AEKII, think ill buy another one.
the switches in that are so bad :( at least to me.
I assume your talking about SKCM Cream Damp. Dirty ones feel bad but clean nice ones feel pretty good actually. Its just that I also miss the board itself. Since I sold it I have had the opportunity to try many more Alps switches so I think my opinion has shifted.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:00:21
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:03:28
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:05:39
I read somewhere Matias only did that for a few batches of the quiet linears.The Matias are all around 60g respectively.
I don't think the quiet linears are, Matias' website lists them as 35 +/- 5 gf. Like I said, they felt very comparable to Gateron Clears.
(Attachment Link)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:39:22
Ive never personally tried them but I like regular cream. How do they stack up?I miss my AEKII, think ill buy another one.
the switches in that are so bad :( at least to me.
I assume your talking about SKCM Cream Damp. Dirty ones feel bad but clean nice ones feel pretty good actually. Its just that I also miss the board itself. Since I sold it I have had the opportunity to try many more Alps switches so I think my opinion has shifted.
I've never tried Matias Quiet Clicks, which seem like their closest relative to compare against, but they were essentially Alp's push against the move toward rubber domes, which were, of course, much quieter. They feel like rubber domes a bit.
I think mixing a damped slider with SKCM Brown or Green would give a near authentic Topre feel.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:46:57
Post by: emdude on Tue, 14 June 2016, 00:02:20
I'll definitely be harvesting these for a 60%, I really want to go with a layout that is like the one on the 5140 so I can use all of its original key caps.
(http://i.imgur.com/7FkykWc.jpg)
Also wondering, would it be safe to say that the SKCL Compacts are basically identical to SKCL Greens (aside from the weird mount)?
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 June 2016, 02:12:50
So I managed to net myself a 5140 for a pretty great price, practically new too; SKCM Browns are really interesting, these certainly have a thockiness to them. :))
I'll definitely be harvesting these for a 60%, I really want to go with a layout that is like the one on the 5140 so I can use all of its original key caps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7FkykWc.jpg)
Also wondering, would it be safe to say that the SKCL Compacts are basically identical to SKCL Greens (aside from the weird mount)?
I find them to be a pinch heavier than SKCL Green, actually. I've dealt with quite a few sets of them from different boards and this always seems to be the case. They're just as pingy though, that's for sure. :)
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:17:31
I read somewhere Matias only did that for a few batches of the quiet linears.
Hmm, so what your saying is there is a chance that if I buy a bag of QLs there's a chance they might be heavy enough for me to like them?
So I managed to net myself a 5140 for a pretty great price, practically new too; SKCM Browns are really interesting, these certainly have a thockiness to them. :))
Nice find! I am currently in the process of trying to find a good deal on one as well.
Anyway, I have two questions for you guys:
1) I recently bought this ALPS Wyse Keyboard (http://www.ebay.com/itm/222146867457?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) to harvest it for keycaps and switches. It is definitely a Wyse-compatible board since it has the same connector as the board I harvested vintage blacks from; however, it is not externally branded as a Wyse board. I have yet to open it up, but I am sure I will find that the PCB is labelled as a 'Wyse' since, holy cow, the keycaps on this board are pretty thick and double-shot (just like SP's for the other Wyse boards). Do you guys know anything about who made these keycaps? I can post pictures when I get back home later (if that would help).
2) Is click-modding greens any smoother than click-modding oranges? In an old thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81794.msg2159447#msg2159447), click-modding oranges was recommended over greens but I have to wonder because the greens I opened up on this board have dried lube on their sliders. My tinkering suggests that using the top case from a Salmon switch, click plate from a White and a spring, switch plate and base from a Green yields a pretty smooth switch, albeit a pingy one with a noticeable amount of hysteresis.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:19:56
So I managed to net myself a 5140 for a pretty great price, practically new too; SKCM Browns are really interesting, these certainly have a thockiness to them. :))absolutely not. SKCL Green compacts have a different spring, different switchplate and different keycap mount
I'll definitely be harvesting these for a 60%, I really want to go with a layout that is like the one on the 5140 so I can use all of its original key caps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7FkykWc.jpg)
Also wondering, would it be safe to say that the SKCL Compacts are basically identical to SKCL Greens (aside from the weird mount)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:22:10
My click modded greens are pretty smooth, they have a white top housing and click leaf though. still incredibly pingy though :))I read somewhere Matias only did that for a few batches of the quiet linears.
Hmm, so what your saying is there is a chance that if I buy a bag of QLs there's a chance they might be heavy enough for me to like them?So I managed to net myself a 5140 for a pretty great price, practically new too; SKCM Browns are really interesting, these certainly have a thockiness to them. :))
Nice find! I am currently in the process of trying to find a good deal on one as well.
Anyway, I have two questions for you guys:
1) I recently bought this ALPS Wyse Keyboard (http://www.ebay.com/itm/222146867457?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) to harvest it for keycaps and switches. It is definitely a Wyse-compatible board since it has the same connector as the board I harvested vintage blacks from; however, it is not externally branded as a Wyse board. I have yet to open it up, but I am sure I will find that the PCB is labelled as a 'Wyse' since, holy cow, the keycaps on this board are pretty thick and double-shot (just like SP's for the other Wyse boards). Do you guys know anything about who made these keycaps? I can post pictures when I get back home later (if that would help).
2) Is click-modding greens any smoother than click-modding oranges? In an old thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81794.msg2159447#msg2159447), click-modding oranges was recommended over greens but I have to wonder because the greens I opened up on this board have dried lube on their sliders. My tinkering suggests that using the top case from a Salmon switch, click plate from a White and a spring, switch plate and base from a Green yields a pretty smooth switch, albeit a pingy one with a noticeable amount of hysteresis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:28:29
My click modded greens are pretty smooth, they have a white top housing and click leaf though. still incredibly pingy though :))
For whatever reason, I could not get the top housing from a white switch to fit on the bottom housing for the SKCL greens (it wouldn't snap closed on one side). I suspected it was due to the longer gray plates inside of the greens so I just grabbed a salmon top housing and it fit.
And yes, I saw your video (https://youtu.be/eqLxrssqZOo), incredibly pingy indeed, haha.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:51:26
absolutely not. SKCL Green compacts have a different spring, different switchplate and different keycap mount
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is mostly true. Different spring, different mount, different slider, different housing, but the switch plate is in-fact the same, and I've used the plates to fix dead or chattery standard SKCL/SKCM switches before.
Never throw out your SKCL Compacts.
For whatever reason, I could not get the top housing from a white switch to fit on the bottom housing for the SKCL greens (it wouldn't snap closed on one side). I suspected it was due to the longer gray plates inside of the greens so I just grabbed a salmon top housing and it fit.
And yes, I saw your video (https://youtu.be/eqLxrssqZOo), incredibly pingy indeed, haha.
That doesn't make any sense though! The SKCM Salmon and SKCM White switches both have short switch plates. That said, the top housings do not have any bearing on the bottom and you should be able to use any SKCM top housing on almost every SKCM switch aside from Brown. SKCL switches too!
Are you sure you didn't just put the top on backwards? It's a really easy mistake to do until you get used to how the housings are oriented. That'd stop the top from going on.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 08:54:25
I think the problem youre having has to do with your click leaf placement. There is 2 little ridges on hte inside of the top of the housing on 1 side, make sure that is the side you put the click leaf in, and put the switch plate in the other side. That will prevent the switch from closing properly if you dont.My click modded greens are pretty smooth, they have a white top housing and click leaf though. still incredibly pingy though :))
For whatever reason, I could not get the top housing from a white switch to fit on the bottom housing for the SKCL greens (it wouldn't snap closed on one side). I suspected it was due to the longer gray plates inside of the greens so I just grabbed a salmon top housing and it fit.
And yes, I saw your video (https://youtu.be/eqLxrssqZOo), incredibly pingy indeed, haha.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 09:01:42
So I managed to net myself a 5140 for a pretty great price, practically new too; SKCM Browns are really interesting, these certainly have a thockiness to them. :))I think that you can use a infinity plate from Bluenalgene's GB, it might just be impossible to stabilize the big ass enter. Youll have to use a 6u spacebar also. Maybe you can utilize the original plate and try to retrofit a alps64 pcb, or hand wire it with a teensy.
I'll definitely be harvesting these for a 60%, I really want to go with a layout that is like the one on the 5140 so I can use all of its original key caps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7FkykWc.jpg)
Also wondering, would it be safe to say that the SKCL Compacts are basically identical to SKCL Greens (aside from the weird mount)?
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 14 June 2016, 09:45:54
That doesn't make any sense though! The SKCM Salmon and SKCM White switches both have short switch plates. That said, the top housings do not have any bearing on the bottom and you should be able to use any SKCM top housing on almost every SKCM switch aside from Brown. SKCL switches too!
Are you sure you didn't just put the top on backwards? It's a really easy mistake to do until you get used to how the housings are oriented. That'd stop the top from going on.
I think the problem youre having has to do with your click leaf placement. There is 2 little ridges on hte inside of the top of the housing on 1 side, make sure that is the side you put the click leaf in, and put the switch plate in the other side. That will prevent the switch from closing properly if you dont.
I knew that salmons and whites should have the same top housings it just seems like salmons have more "headroom;" I am willing to admit I could be an idiot about this, though. I usually put the click leaf in the side with the ALPS logo on it, is that a poor way to orient them? That is probably my problem if the logo doesn't always correspond to the side with the two little ridges (http://i.imgur.com/mGeU0Zt.jpg).
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 June 2016, 09:51:24
I knew that salmons and whites should have the same top housings it just seems like salmons have more "headroom;" I am willing to admit I could be an idiot about this, though. I usually put the click leaf in the side with the ALPS logo on it, is that a poor way to orient them? That is probably my problem if the logo doesn't always correspond to the side with the two little ridges (http://i.imgur.com/mGeU0Zt.jpg).
A really good way to know if you've got the leaf on the right side is to pay attention the asymmetry of the top housing on the inside walls. Notice how one side is flat and the other has a bit of a raised grid? The grid half is for the contact/switch plate, and the flat part is for the click or tactile leaf.
SKCM Brown and SKCM Ivory have symmetrical housings and so that trick doesn't work, but it also doesn't matter either, since they are symmetrical.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 09:51:45
Post by: emdude on Tue, 14 June 2016, 12:12:22
So I managed to net myself a 5140 for a pretty great price, practically new too; SKCM Browns are really interesting, these certainly have a thockiness to them. :))I think that you can use a infinity plate from Bluenalgene's GB, it might just be impossible to stabilize the big ass enter. Youll have to use a 6u spacebar also. Maybe you can utilize the original plate and try to retrofit a alps64 pcb, or hand wire it with a teensy.
I'll definitely be harvesting these for a 60%, I really want to go with a layout that is like the one on the 5140 so I can use all of its original key caps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7FkykWc.jpg)
Also wondering, would it be safe to say that the SKCL Compacts are basically identical to SKCL Greens (aside from the weird mount)?
The plate is so unusual that I think I'll just try to design one myself.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:11:43
So I managed to net myself a 5140 for a pretty great price, practically new too; SKCM Browns are really interesting, these certainly have a thockiness to them. :))Can you take a pic of the plate? I would love to see it.
I'll definitely be harvesting these for a 60%, I really want to go with a layout that is like the one on the 5140 so I can use all of its original key caps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7FkykWc.jpg)
Also wondering, would it be safe to say that the SKCL Compacts are basically identical to SKCL Greens (aside from the weird mount)?
I think that you can use a infinity plate from Bluenalgene's GB, it might just be impossible to stabilize the big ass enter. Youll have to use a 6u spacebar also. Maybe you can utilize the original plate and try to retrofit a alps64 pcb, or hand wire it with a teensy.
The plate is so unusual that I think I'll just try to design one myself.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:32:40
It's a shame that his designs aren't open source, I think I'll have to start with a design generated with Swill's plate creator and then go from there.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:44:01
Are you referring to the plate I'd like to design? Sorry if I was being confusing, I was referring to that one. I meant to say that since it's such a mish-mash of Big-Ass Enter layouts that I doubt someone like JDCarpe would have a design that matches it exactly..Yeah, I would like to see it, sounds interesting. Can you provide a pic of the original 5140 plate too?
It's a shame that his designs aren't open source, I think I'll have to start with a design generated with Swill's plate creator and then go from there.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:17:13
Here's a quick mock-up of the 60% plate, partly done in MSPaint, really wish Swill's plate creator supported Alps better. :confused:
(http://i.imgur.com/o6UuAy1.png)
The placement of the 5140's Big-Ass Enter is also different from the one generated by Swill's creator and I did not include the case holes since they overlap with the stabilizers.
EDIT: Edited the mock-up.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 June 2016, 17:36:33
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 18:30:04
A wire between K and L and the trace was back up and running! This has been a reoccurring issue for month's :confused:
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 18:32:08
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 18:36:43
Properly fixed my SGI's PCB today. Took a few hours but I figured out the issue. Between the K and L keys the trace that goes along linking them together (along w/ asdfj) had invisibly broken. This meant that upon random ASDF and JK keys would stop working together, either they all worked or none at all. G and H is on a separate trace so they were never effected.
A wire between K and L and the trace was back up and running! This has been a reoccurring issue for month's :confused:
hate when that happens
Lol yea. The trace looked perfectly fine. For a good bit I tried cleaning the PCB, connectors, and reflowing solder points etc but nothing worked.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 14 June 2016, 18:43:33
A really good way to know if you've got the leaf on the right side is to pay attention the asymmetry of the top housing on the inside walls. Notice how one side is flat and the other has a bit of a raised grid? The grid half is for the contact/switch plate, and the flat part is for the click or tactile leaf.
SKCM Brown and SKCM Ivory have symmetrical housings and so that trick doesn't work, but it also doesn't matter either, since they are symmetrical.
Duly noted, haha, thanks for the information! I got home and looked at my switches again and I was just being silly. Turned the top housing the other way around and it started fitting together.
Ahh, we all need to pick up CAD to make out own custom plate files for reasons like this. Swill's plate creator is really off with Alps a lot of the time.
That's what I am currently working on doing, I started working on an AEKII 60% CAD sketch based on Swill's output and adjusting the stabilizers accordingly. I'll test it at some point and if it works I'll probably open source it.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 18:45:17
Post by: emdude on Tue, 14 June 2016, 18:57:24
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 June 2016, 19:16:34
I know that JDCarpe has his own designs and you have to license them from him in order to use them for a GB or whatnot. Would there be any legal issues from basically recreating them and then open sourcing the files?
I have no idea how that'd work legally, but I'd find it a little unfair if no one else at all can create their own designs to use for a 60% Alps plate. There's not any real room for variation when it comes to a plate in certain layouts.
I'd personally say that if you made the plate design yourself, it should be fine, but that might not be the case legally. It's just that the plates are essentially what a full-sized plate would look like if it were cut down to 60% size, not so much different as it is just truncated. Not to disrespect JD's or anyone else's work though. His universal plates are fantastic. :thumb:
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 14 June 2016, 19:44:01
I know that JDCarpe has his own designs and you have to license them from him in order to use them for a GB or whatnot. Would there be any legal issues from basically recreating them and then open sourcing the files?
I am hoping there aren't, I think it would be covered by the same laws that protect reverse engineering. As long as you can prove you made them from scratch you should be ok. I hope it will be OK if I actually manage make a working design.
@E3E You mentioned the top housing shouldn't make any difference but can it affect the sound of a switch? The salmon top housings, being made of a different material, produce a louder click than the white housings do. I am not sure why... That being said, I think I'll just stick with white switch tops, I like the more subdued sound.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 20:40:14
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 June 2016, 20:49:13
Whats a good TaoBao agent that wont rip me off? Found something very cool....
Taobaoring will work with you to ensure the item is in stock. I use them a lot and they are quite helpful. TaoBaoFocus works quick and has live support, but they allow you to purchase items that might be out of stock and you'll have to wait to be refunded if that's the case.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 14 June 2016, 23:27:52
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 15 June 2016, 15:25:39
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 15:28:13
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 15:28:31
What have you people done to me? I'm starting to like these more than my Model M. Please help me.Ive already gone past my 1390131, which is the debatably best model m. I still love it though. alps is one hell of a drug.
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Post by: chyros on Wed, 15 June 2016, 17:19:42
They're gorgeous. I hope I run into the UK version of the '0131 someday ^^ . Preferably dated to my birthday!What have you people done to me? I'm starting to like these more than my Model M. Please help me.Ive already gone past my 1390131, which is the debatably best model m. I still love it though. alps is one hell of a drug.
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Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 15 June 2016, 19:34:46
These cream switches are not bad. I need to figure out where they fit in the spectrum and what would be the best use for them. I have a goodly number of various Alps switches now and I plan to mess around with swapping parts as soon as I feel comfortable that the appropriate lube has been discovered.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 19:58:44
Completely unexpected, I stumbled onto a Wang 724 today, my first. The keyboard is a wreck and I will not even attempt to restore it, but I am very excited about the caps in particular. Too bad that the top row function keys are double-printed - I would love to have a plain clean set. A few of the caps are cracked, broken, or have chunks missing out of them (it was (fortunately) upside-down in a beat-up gaylord outside) but luckily only "weird" ones around the perimeter were broken and not the important "core" ones.
These cream switches are not bad. I need to figure out where they fit in the spectrum and what would be the best use for them. I have a goodly number of various Alps switches now and I plan to mess around with swapping parts as soon as I feel comfortable that the appropriate lube has been discovered.
What creams? Dampened?
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 19:59:21
Completely unexpected, I stumbled onto a Wang 724 today, my first. The keyboard is a wreck and I will not even attempt to restore it, but I am very excited about the caps in particular. Too bad that the top row function keys are double-printed - I would love to have a plain clean set. A few of the caps are cracked, broken, or have chunks missing out of them (it was (fortunately) upside-down in a beat-up gaylord outside) but luckily only "weird" ones around the perimeter were broken and not the important "core" ones.Can we see some pics?
These cream switches are not bad. I need to figure out where they fit in the spectrum and what would be the best use for them. I have a goodly number of various Alps switches now and I plan to mess around with swapping parts as soon as I feel comfortable that the appropriate lube has been discovered.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 20:03:39
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 20:04:47
Welp, i've discovered a goldmine, and I mean a goldmine. Thanks Taobao! :thumb:You have to let us in on this
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Post by: Magna224 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 22:47:49
Completely unexpected, I stumbled onto a Wang 724 today, my first. The keyboard is a wreck and I will not even attempt to restore it, but I am very excited about the caps in particular. Too bad that the top row function keys are double-printed - I would love to have a plain clean set. A few of the caps are cracked, broken, or have chunks missing out of them (it was (fortunately) upside-down in a beat-up gaylord outside) but luckily only "weird" ones around the perimeter were broken and not the important "core" ones.
These cream switches are not bad. I need to figure out where they fit in the spectrum and what would be the best use for them. I have a goodly number of various Alps switches now and I plan to mess around with swapping parts as soon as I feel comfortable that the appropriate lube has been discovered.
I like the wang! I have one with black ALPS. Mine needs a cord. I've always been too lazy to make a cord. Its a nice hefty keyboard with ansi enter.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 16 June 2016, 02:59:20
Completely unexpected, I stumbled onto a Wang 724 today, my first. The keyboard is a wreck and I will not even attempt to restore it, but I am very excited about the caps in particular. Too bad that the top row function keys are double-printed - I would love to have a plain clean set. A few of the caps are cracked, broken, or have chunks missing out of them (it was (fortunately) upside-down in a beat-up gaylord outside) but luckily only "weird" ones around the perimeter were broken and not the important "core" ones.Nice! I always like it when I bump into a large Wang. How was your first experience?
These cream switches are not bad. I need to figure out where they fit in the spectrum and what would be the best use for them. I have a goodly number of various Alps switches now and I plan to mess around with swapping parts as soon as I feel comfortable that the appropriate lube has been discovered.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 14:46:40
Welp, i've discovered a goldmine, and I mean a goldmine. Thanks Taobao! :thumb:You have to let us in on this
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Hah. I will after my order gets to the proxy, don't want any interference. I'll give you a teaser though. $7 SKCM Blue boards
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 14:54:04
Well ****. remember me when they get in :))Welp, i've discovered a goldmine, and I mean a goldmine. Thanks Taobao! :thumb:You have to let us in on this
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Hah. I will after my order gets to the proxy, don't want any interference. I'll give you a teaser though. $7 SKCM Blue boards
Post by: emdude on Thu, 16 June 2016, 15:19:18
Post by: emdude on Thu, 16 June 2016, 16:07:53
I'm guessing there's a bunch of them, they're all really dirty and missing caps to various degrees. If they're not all ~7 dollars, then I probably have the wrong one. Honestly, I'm not expecting my order to go anywhere, but it'll be a pleasant surprise if it does.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 17:35:10
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 19:11:01
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 22:54:59
(http://i.imgur.com/VPZzj1m.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/izn5Gxr.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 22:56:28
I am now the proud owner of this!!! Minus the case. Also a pcb/plate full of SKCM Blue! Its actually from that strange Model M clone.was this the taobao jackpot?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VPZzj1m.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/izn5Gxr.jpg)
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 16 June 2016, 23:03:12
I am now the proud owner of this!!! Minus the case. Also a pcb/plate full of SKCM Blue! Its actually from that strange Model M clone.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VPZzj1m.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/izn5Gxr.jpg)
Super jealous of both of those finds, haha. What're your plans for them?
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 23:11:30
Plan is to build some sort of SKCM Blue board w/ those amazing high profile caps, at least thats what i'm thinking.
(http://i.imgur.com/6EFsCaa.jpg)
Post by: emdude on Thu, 16 June 2016, 23:19:50
I think I found another nice Alps board so I'll probably be passing on the SKCM Blues entirely.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 16 June 2016, 23:32:11
Yep! :D This one seller has a bunch of Cherry and Alps stuff. Various Alps clones, Cherry MX Yellow (legit), and what I bought. The SKCL Green listing had 2 IBM Multistations and a X6800 PCB. By the time I got to it one of the Multistations had already been sold, luckily the later variant with the lower profile caps. He has another listing with SKCM Blue, about 4 boards. All between $7-20. I bought the cheap one since I don't really care for how many caps aren't missing etc.
Plan is to build some sort of SKCM Blue board w/ those amazing high profile caps, at least thats what i'm thinking.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6EFsCaa.jpg)
Cherry MX Yellow? Wow, I hadn't heard of those before. Are those linear, tactile or clicky switches?
And yeah, those sphericals look fun! I have one of the older IBM boards with the Tall Green switches and it's fun to play around with every once in a while.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:07:10
Yep! :D This one seller has a bunch of Cherry and Alps stuff. Various Alps clones, Cherry MX Yellow (legit), and what I bought. The SKCL Green listing had 2 IBM Multistations and a X6800 PCB. By the time I got to it one of the Multistations had already been sold, luckily the later variant with the lower profile caps. He has another listing with SKCM Blue, about 4 boards. All between $7-20. I bought the cheap one since I don't really care for how many caps aren't missing etc.
Plan is to build some sort of SKCM Blue board w/ those amazing high profile caps, at least thats what i'm thinking.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6EFsCaa.jpg)
Cherry MX Yellow? Wow, I hadn't heard of those before. Are those linear, tactile or clicky switches?
And yeah, those sphericals look fun! I have one of the older IBM boards with the Tall Green switches and it's fun to play around with every once in a while.
They do exist, rare though. The guy is selling them out of a old PCB. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Yellow
Those sphericals are going to make for a really cool board, combined w/ SKCM Blue too!
(http://i.imgur.com/szBuJN5.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:16:20
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:26:23
(http://i.imgur.com/vH7x8iJ.png)
I left you guys the last blue alps board, Dont worry, all these switches have homes waiting for them, I wont be reselling them, and if I do it sure wont be for ebay prices on blue alps :P Im not that much of an ass :))
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:51:10
Just bought 3 blue alps boards, a board full of dolch alps keycaps and an assortment of alps switches off of taobao. Life can be good. lets hope taobaofocus comes through for me.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vH7x8iJ.png)
I left you guys the last blue alps board, Dont worry, all these switches have homes waiting for them, I wont be reselling them, and if I do it sure wont be for ebay prices on blue alps :P Im not that much of an ass :))
Ok, I see you left the most expensive one. Was about to PM you and Wingpad the link since you guys asked. Get ready to pay a decent amt. for shipping, the weight can really add up.
Lol I knew as soon as the link got out they would be snatched up real quick :P
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:53:13
haha 20$ us still isnt expensive fore blue alps, I just dont need a full set of caps :)) I think im going to throw some blue alps and the dolch caps on my v60 I just bought.Just bought 3 blue alps boards, a board full of dolch alps keycaps and an assortment of alps switches off of taobao. Life can be good. lets hope taobaofocus comes through for me.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vH7x8iJ.png)
I left you guys the last blue alps board, Dont worry, all these switches have homes waiting for them, I wont be reselling them, and if I do it sure wont be for ebay prices on blue alps :P Im not that much of an ass :))
Ok, I see you left the most expensive one. Was about to PM you and Wingpad the link since you guys asked. Get ready to pay a decent amt. for shipping, the weight can really add up.
Lol I knew as soon as the link got out they would be snatched up real quick :P
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Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:59:29
There is still a X6800 avaible here: https://world.taobao.com/item/520706952249.htm
Here is the sellers main page: https://shop69540952.world.taobao.com/ He has a bunch of Cherry stuff, vintage black etc. Some more alps like a cool compact TKL looking thing w/ SKCM White.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 01:06:15
be bothered to look since Im already in bed on my phone.
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Post by: E3E on Fri, 17 June 2016, 01:32:32
Yep! :D This one seller has a bunch of Cherry and Alps stuff. Various Alps clones, Cherry MX Yellow (legit), and what I bought. The SKCL Green listing had 2 IBM Multistations and a X6800 PCB. By the time I got to it one of the Multistations had already been sold, luckily the later variant with the lower profile caps. He has another listing with SKCM Blue, about 4 boards. All between $7-20. I bought the cheap one since I don't really care for how many caps aren't missing etc.
Plan is to build some sort of SKCM Blue board w/ those amazing high profile caps, at least thats what i'm thinking.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6EFsCaa.jpg)
I've got some IBM sphericals too, actually. I didn't really like them on blue alps, green Alps, or any light switches. I think they'd be best suited on a heavier switch (just my opinion). They felt good on SKCM Browns and I have a feeling they'll be amazing on SKCM Ambers. I'd reckon they'd feel good on SKCL Brown too, but I haven't tried them out on those.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 01:35:38
Well I guess thats not good news for me, because my agent hasnt placed the order yet. I guess im only getting 2 boards max. do you know which ones are left? I cant really
be bothered to look since Im already in bed on my phone.
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There not necessarily left but still showing, I wouldnt really be worrying that much. The seller must be really busy with all the orders at once, with mine being a hour or two before the flood. They are the two 95 yen ones.
I've got some IBM sphericals too, actually. I didn't really like them on blue alps, green Alps, or any light switches. I think they'd be best suited on a heavier switch (just my opinion). They felt good on SKCM Browns and I have a feeling they'll be amazing on SKCM Ambers. I'd reckon they'd feel good on SKCL Brown too, but I haven't tried them out on those.
Where did you get those from? Interesting. I think they will still be pretty good though.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 17 June 2016, 01:48:19
There not necessarily left but still showing, I wouldnt really be worrying that much. The seller must be really busy with all the orders at once, with mine being a hour or two before the flood. They are the two 95 yen ones.
Where did you get those from? Interesting. I think they will still be pretty good though.
I got them from Itzmeluigi. The Multistations are incredibly rare over here, but apparently they're about as common as AEKs over in China. I think, similarly, Alps SKCL Green is one of the most common switches used in the asian market. Linears seemed to be their thing. I believe Alps SKCM Orange, for as relatively common as it is here, was quite rare over there, for example.
The sphericals are still the less common ones of the bunch though, by far. The feel of them was just my opinion, I mean the sphericals do come on Alps SKCL Green boards, so someone decided that was a good idea. I just find them to be a bit unfulfilling with such a light weight. I love them with Alps profile cylindrical, but not with these sphericals.
They actually felt really good on my Tai Hao APC clone switches, which aare somewhere between SKCM White and SKCM Amber in how they sound and feel, which is why I'm thinking Ambers would be good despite my distaste for them. The caps gave the otherwise hollow sound of the APC switches a more satisfying feedback, if you ask me.
You'll love the way they grip your fingers though, man. They've got a really nice sculpt that is unlike SA and probably more like Topre Hi Pros. They're a bit scooped out and the homing keys have deep dish scoops. Fantastic caps.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 09:00:20
Was about to PM you and Wingpad the link since you guys asked. Get ready to pay a decent amt. for shipping, the weight can really add up.
Well I guess thats not good news for me, because my agent hasnt placed the order yet. I guess im only getting 2 boards max. do you know which ones are left? I cant really
be bothered to look since Im already in bed on my phone.
Thanks for the heads up about these, guys! I think I was able to get one of the blue alps boards, I just hope I didn't accidentally snatch one of Mike's... I would feel awful :(
Yeah, I ordered like 10 switches the other day from Taobao and paid $16 for shipping them to the states. It's just like when I was importing Gunpla from Japan, I guess.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 09:02:16
Post by: chyros on Fri, 17 June 2016, 09:02:44
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 09:05:25
I saw the blue Alps thing he had, but it was so dirty I mistook them for brown Alps at first xD . Hopefully whoever gets it will be able to restore it to a usable condition - dirty Alps can be worse than horrible.Its going to be a hell of alot of work, but totally worth it.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 09:53:41
which one was it? I bought the 3 cheapest ones left. The only one I didnt buy was the one with all the keycaps.
I bought the one with all of the keycaps. phew
[attach=1]
I saw the blue Alps thing he had, but it was so dirty I mistook them for brown Alps at first xD . Hopefully whoever gets it will be able to restore it to a usable condition - dirty Alps can be worse than horrible.Its going to be a hell of alot of work, but totally worth it.
Yeah, I am looking forward to it, this is one of the few boards that was described as "feeling good" but I'll still probably have do a bit of restoration/cleaning work to get 'em to be silky smooth again. I was tempted to buy that weird TKL board he had and put them in there but I will probably just put them into a 40/60% at some point.
The funniest part is that I passed over this seller like six times when I was searching the site. For whatever reason only his cherry options were showing and I never bothered to look at what else he had. I'm just grateful I got something anyway.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 10:00:29
awesome! Glad you got one. I guess you can disreagard my pm them :))which one was it? I bought the 3 cheapest ones left. The only one I didnt buy was the one with all the keycaps.
I bought the one with all of the keycaps. phew
(Attachment Link)
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 10:22:58
Awesome! Glad you got one. I guess you can disregard my pm them :))
I meant to send you a thank-you for that, it was a very kind offer!
Aside from that board, I also bought a set of their double-shot keycaps and I got these from another seller:
(http://i.imgur.com/jsN5k97.jpg)
Now I have no idea if they're the actual SKCL Grays or the keycaps, I guess I'll find out when they arrive. I'm really hoping to get the switches, though. I'd love to use them as a "proper" space bar on my next custom boards.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 17 June 2016, 11:07:25
The switches in the picture are almost certainly genuine. The caps look like they're Alps-made, too. I think I saw them but I didn't buy them probably because of the pricing or shipping or something.Awesome! Glad you got one. I guess you can disregard my pm them :))
I meant to send you a thank-you for that, it was a very kind offer!
Aside from that board, I also bought a set of their double-shot keycaps and I got these from another seller:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jsN5k97.jpg)
Now I have no idea if they're the actual SKCL Grays or the keycaps, I guess I'll find out when they arrive. I'm really hoping to get the switches, though. I'd love to use them as a "proper" space bar on my next custom boards.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 11:07:38
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 11:16:25
The switches in the picture are almost certainly genuine. The caps look like they're Alps-made, too. I think I saw them but I didn't buy them probably because of the pricing or shipping or something.
Yeah, I thought the same thing when I saw the LED cutout and the Alps logo on the bottom of the case; it's just that the description for the listing was vague. I wasn't sure if they are listing the caps themselves with the switches there for scale or the switches and the caps. They said "keyboard hats" (I think hats = caps) in the listing and since they didn't talk about the switches anywhere, I might be getting myself a fine set of "keyboard hats." I decided to buy 'em even though they cost me a bit to ship 'em.
I saw the same skcl greys, I was about to order them too, but I thought i was already wallethacking myself too much. what kind of doubleshots did you find?
I am at the height of my wallethacking atm, it's part of the whole starting a new obsession process. Fortunately, I am selling off a lot of the stuff from my previous obsession so I'm breaking even and trading one for the other. As for the double-shots they looked like pretty bog standard Focus/Northgate-style ones, nothing particularly exciting but they were like $4 so I figured I might as well throw them into my order while I am at it. It never hurts to have an extra set.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 11:17:54
As for the double-shots they looked like pretty bog standard Focus/Northgate-style ones, nothing particularly exciting but they were like $4 so I figured I might as well throw them into my order while I am at it. It never hurts to have an extra set.Are they big ass enter or ansi? if theyre ansi I might have to pick up a set.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 11:26:34
Are they big ass enter or ansi? if theyre ansi I might have to pick up a set.
It is a big ass enter with a winkeyless layout, 7u space bar, split shift and full-size backspace but I was more interested in the alphas, anyway. Regardless, I think I ordered their last one.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 11:33:42
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 12:27:01
My omnikey 104 is going to be blue alpsified and refurbished, it came with FILTHY white alps. Personally I think focus/northgate doubleshots are some of the bestlooking and feeling alps caps ever made. (other than sphericals of course lmao)
Lmao about the filthy white alps bit and I guess that means I should look forward to playing around with these new caps :thumb:
Hmmm, now that I have all of these switches I want to find something to put them in; maybe I'll get a Filco Zero or KBParadise V80 to house them. I was planning on building a planck and 60% AEKII-style keyboard (I have the PCB for the latter but not the plate and vice versa for the former) but now I kind of want a TKL. (and so the wallet hacking continues!)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 12:52:10
I have a hacked up and hand wired with a teensy tkl white alps board that im working on a custom hardwood case for. I used an aekii clone board called the power user 105 as a base. I might go about getting rid of this board somewhere down the line after I finish it, I have most of the tmk programming done but I cant bring myself to finish it. Ill post some pics when I get home. let me know if youre interested. swapping switches would be a ***** though since theyre glued in and hand wired. I had a thread about it in making stuff together if you can find it.My omnikey 104 is going to be blue alpsified and refurbished, it came with FILTHY white alps. Personally I think focus/northgate doubleshots are some of the bestlooking and feeling alps caps ever made. (other than sphericals of course lmao)
Lmao about the filthy white alps bit and I guess that means I should look forward to playing around with these new caps :thumb:
Hmmm, now that I have all of these switches I want to find something to put them in; maybe I'll get a Filco Zero or KBParadise V80 to house them. I was planning on building a planck and AEKII-style keyboard (I have the PCB for the latter but not the plate and vice versa for the former) but now I kind of want a TKL. (and so the wallet hacking continues!)
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Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 13:15:33
Awesome! Glad you got one. I guess you can disregard my pm them :))
I meant to send you a thank-you for that, it was a very kind offer!
Aside from that board, I also bought a set of their double-shot keycaps and I got these from another seller:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jsN5k97.jpg)
Now I have no idea if they're the actual SKCL Grays or the keycaps, I guess I'll find out when they arrive. I'm really hoping to get the switches, though. I'd love to use them as a "proper" space bar on my next custom boards.
Oh, I bought these a while back but he was out of the SKCL Gray's and just sent those blank caps. Ended up not keeping them since the shipping was really high for just caps. Did he come back in stock? You can know from the title of the listing, give me the link and I will know.
I saw the blue Alps thing he had, but it was so dirty I mistook them for brown Alps at first xD . Hopefully whoever gets it will be able to restore it to a usable condition - dirty Alps can be worse than horrible.
The one I bought was definitely dirtiest out of the bunch, but not super terrible. A good cleaning outside and inside will bring them back.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 15:27:35
I have a hacked up and hand wired with a teensy tkl white alps board that im working on a custom hardwood case for. I used an aekii clone board called the power user 105 as a base. I might go about getting rid of this board somewhere down the line after I finish it, I have most of the tmk programming done but I cant bring myself to finish it. Ill post some pics when I get home. let me know if youre interested. swapping switches would be a ***** though since theyre glued in and hand wired. I had a thread about it in making stuff together if you can find it.
I found your thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82002.msg2167410#msg2167410), it looks like it was coming along nicely. What were you trying to do in the firmware that was different/special? Apple purists forgive me for this but I have an AEKII plate I could cut in a similar manner, I wonder how tricky that would be...
Oh, I bought these a while back but he was out of the SKCL Gray's and just sent those blank caps. Ended up not keeping them since the shipping was really high for just caps. Did he come back in stock? You can know from the title of the listing, give me the link and I will know.
I would give you the link but it's too late, they've already taken down the listing since I purchased them. I think I ended up just getting the caps, lol :)) I don't mind that much I just hope I get more than ten for what I spent on shipping xD
The one I bought was definitely dirtiest out of the bunch, but not super terrible. A good cleaning outside and inside will bring them back.
How are you planning on cleaning yours, if you don't mind me asking? Compressed air? Ultrasonic cleaner? Good ol' fashioned elbow grease?
Post by: emdude on Fri, 17 June 2016, 15:42:26
Post by: emdude on Fri, 17 June 2016, 15:52:31
Does anyone have measurements for the space bar stabilizer insert holes or know a topic on GH where this is documented? I don't have the proper tools with which to make proper measurements.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 15:59:09
I'm also trying to help phoible get his 60% Alps plate GB going and since JDCarpe seems to have been away from GH for quite some time now, I think we're going to go ahead with redesigning his plates.
Does anyone have measurements for the space bar stabilizer insert holes or know a topic on GH where this is documented? I don't have the proper tools with which to make proper measurements.
I can give you JD's email if that would help (his policy is for people to contact him there about GBs). Also, are you talking about the pins on the bottom of the spacebar? I have the following from BlueNalgene (from a PM):
Quote from: BlueNalgene
Since you mention the spacebar pins, I could help you out with the spacing. I know that the pins for the Dell keycaps are 6.25 mm diameter holes spaced 69.25 mm apart, equidistant from the spacebar switch rectangle.
I think I am pretty close with my plate re-design but I don't have anyway to test it until I get a replacement PSU for my laser cutter. Once I am able to validate it I am planning on posting it; I just don't want to post it if it's wrong, haha.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 17 June 2016, 16:08:58
Post by: merlin64 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 16:18:43
So far I've got a clueboard with SKCM Brown, a Alps Party with SKCM Brown, a Leading Edge with SKCM Blue, and a typewriter with SKCL Greens. I'd be interested in this upcoming plate so I can build a 60% Green Alps board!
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 16:21:25
I added a Matias Mini Tactile Pro to my Alps collection today. I went home and promptly broke a few switches when swapping in Apple AEKII PBT keycaps. =(. Anyone know a good source for 6 instock Matias Clicks.
I have 6 quiet click switches I could send/sell you that are leftover from the Dell I built.
EDIT: Otherwise, MK has Matias QCs. (https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=480)
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 16:22:56
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 16:27:07
I have 6 quiet click switches I could send/sell you that are leftover from the Dell I built.
Whoops, I didn't realize you wanted Clicks, in that case I can't help you.
Post by: merlin64 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 16:29:44
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 18:35:38
I imagine those blue alps will need some work indeed. I hope you will not have to resort to washing the sliders, since that will probably end up removing the lubricant on them. I have read that dirty Alps can often be shot beyond repair, so that was part of the reason why I decided not to get those boards; hopefully yours turn out all right with some cleaning.
Nah, that won't be needed. I'll clean the plate and switches then blow out dust inside them. You can look for yourself, the picture of mine is still up https://world.taobao.com/item/529535754025.htm
By F12 its pretty dirty but if you look elsewhere its surprisingly alright actually. I count about 95 good switches that don't have their insides missing. Another advantage of that one is that its a perfect ANSI Alps plate. Good for later use.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 18:41:49
one of the ones I got were ansi, but the other 2 were big ass enter and 1u backspace. wingpad's board from the same listing is also 1u backspace and big ass enter. There was a focus 2001 on there with blue alps, but for some reason the switches looked fake to me.I imagine those blue alps will need some work indeed. I hope you will not have to resort to washing the sliders, since that will probably end up removing the lubricant on them. I have read that dirty Alps can often be shot beyond repair, so that was part of the reason why I decided not to get those boards; hopefully yours turn out all right with some cleaning.
Nah, that won't be needed. I'll clean the plate and switches then blow out dust inside them. You can look for yourself, the picture of mine is still up https://world.taobao.com/item/529535754025.htm
By F12 its pretty dirty but if you look elsewhere its surprisingly alright actually. I count about 95 good switches that don't have their insides missing. Another advantage of that one is that its a perfect ANSI Alps plate. Good for later use.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 17 June 2016, 19:08:29
one of the ones I got were ansi, but the other 2 were big ass enter and 1u backspace. wingpad's board from the same listing is also 1u backspace and big ass enter. There was a focus 2001 on there with blue alps, but for some reason the switches looked fake to me.
Yeah those switches looked like these switches (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Simplified_Alps_Type_III) to me, I can't remember if it had a windows key or not, though. Either way, they were just too blue to be real alps. The listing is gone otherwise I would have another look at it and try to figure out what they were.
I hope I don't need to clean my switches, either, given that my board has all of the keycaps and looked fairly clean I think I should be OK.
EDIT: I found a picture of the item in question, it looks like it could have had windows keys at one time since there are cutouts in the plate but they seem to narrow to have had actual keys there. IDK
(http://i.imgur.com/VC7T7bj.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 19:09:48
one of the ones I got were ansi, but the other 2 were big ass enter and 1u backspace. wingpad's board from the same listing is also 1u backspace and big ass enter. There was a focus 2001 on there with blue alps, but for some reason the switches looked fake to me.I imagine those blue alps will need some work indeed. I hope you will not have to resort to washing the sliders, since that will probably end up removing the lubricant on them. I have read that dirty Alps can often be shot beyond repair, so that was part of the reason why I decided not to get those boards; hopefully yours turn out all right with some cleaning.
Nah, that won't be needed. I'll clean the plate and switches then blow out dust inside them. You can look for yourself, the picture of mine is still up https://world.taobao.com/item/529535754025.htm
By F12 its pretty dirty but if you look elsewhere its surprisingly alright actually. I count about 95 good switches that don't have their insides missing. Another advantage of that one is that its a perfect ANSI Alps plate. Good for later use.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh nice. Maybe ill cut it down into a 80% for future use or something. My Multistation is very clean in fact, not planning to open those up.
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 17 June 2016, 19:18:47
This is what the agent sent me.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 19:24:44
I bought one of the green. I just want the dual legend alphas anyway.
This is what the agent sent me.
OH! You were the one who bought the low profile Multistation board.
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 17 June 2016, 19:30:34
I bought one of the green. I just want the dual legend alphas anyway.
This is what the agent sent me.
OH! You were the one who bought the low profile Multistation board.
Guilty as charge, now only if KBP could release a Pegasus Hoof-compatible V80 then my dream is complete.
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 17 June 2016, 19:43:32
I imagine those blue alps will need some work indeed. I hope you will not have to resort to washing the sliders, since that will probably end up removing the lubricant on them. I have read that dirty Alps can often be shot beyond repair, so that was part of the reason why I decided not to get those boards; hopefully yours turn out all right with some cleaning.
Nah, that won't be needed. I'll clean the plate and switches then blow out dust inside them. You can look for yourself, the picture of mine is still up https://world.taobao.com/item/529535754025.htm
By F12 its pretty dirty but if you look elsewhere its surprisingly alright actually. I count about 95 good switches that don't have their insides missing. Another advantage of that one is that its a perfect ANSI Alps plate. Good for later use.
THe unit illustrated is sort of interesting. The font on the keycaps, straight ANSI layout-- it looks a lot like the mysterious Blue Alps Model M clones as seen on Deskthority.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 19:45:16
I imagine those blue alps will need some work indeed. I hope you will not have to resort to washing the sliders, since that will probably end up removing the lubricant on them. I have read that dirty Alps can often be shot beyond repair, so that was part of the reason why I decided not to get those boards; hopefully yours turn out all right with some cleaning.
Nah, that won't be needed. I'll clean the plate and switches then blow out dust inside them. You can look for yourself, the picture of mine is still up https://world.taobao.com/item/529535754025.htm
By F12 its pretty dirty but if you look elsewhere its surprisingly alright actually. I count about 95 good switches that don't have their insides missing. Another advantage of that one is that its a perfect ANSI Alps plate. Good for later use.
THe unit illustrated is sort of interesting. The font on the keycaps, straight ANSI layout-- it looks a lot like the mysterious Blue Alps Model M clones as seen on Deskthority.
Yep, I posted this earlier. It is the internal of one of those! At least I think it is, same layout, caps etc.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 17 June 2016, 20:05:25
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 20:56:01
Really wish I trusted taobao enough to join yall on this Alps adventure. Everyone got a great/interesting haul
Personally I think its pretty safe, we have multiple members who have gotten stuff from there without any issues :) Its all about choosing the right proxy imo. Bhiner is ok but rips you off and Taobaoring is pretty fair and has a good rep around here.
Lol yea everyone got somthing cool. SKCM Blue, SKCL Green, cool caps and more! Really glad I spent the time Taobao-fuing to find the goldmine of a Taobao seller. Navigating the site is quite hard.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 21:08:00
Really wish I trusted taobao enough to join yall on this Alps adventure. Everyone got a great/interesting haulI dont trust it at all, but at the most ill be out 85$ right now. Im hoping it will come through for me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: emdude on Fri, 17 June 2016, 21:56:33
one of the ones I got were ansi, but the other 2 were big ass enter and 1u backspace. wingpad's board from the same listing is also 1u backspace and big ass enter. There was a focus 2001 on there with blue alps, but for some reason the switches looked fake to me.
Yeah those switches looked like these switches (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Simplified_Alps_Type_III) to me, I can't remember if it had a windows key or not, though. Either way, they were just too blue to be real alps. The listing is gone otherwise I would have another look at it and try to figure out what they were.
I hope I don't need to clean my switches, either, given that my board has all of the keycaps and looked fairly clean I think I should be OK.
EDIT: I found a picture of the item in question, it looks like it could have had windows keys at one time since there are cutouts in the plate but they seem to narrow to have had actual keys there. IDKShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/VC7T7bj.jpg)
Yeah, I was very suspicious of the other blue alps boards in the listing, the $7 one was the only board I was certain had SKCM Blues because of the grey switches in the exposed switches. With the horrible pictures, it was pretty much impossible for me to tell whether they were the real deal or the Simplified Alps Type III clone switches, which appear almost identical apart from the slightly different top shells and the slider color, which is more vivid blue.
I am not sure how common these clone switches are; my impression is that they appeared only for a very brief time in FK-2001s. Still, that possibility, however minute, their conditions, and my general distrust of Taobao made me just pass on the whole thing entirely. I should have more SKCM Browns on my way to me anyway, so I don't mind. :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 22:04:59
Yeah, I was very suspicious of the other blue alps boards in the listing, the $7 one was the only board I was certain had SKCM Blues because of the grey switches in the exposed switches. With the horrible pictures, it was pretty much impossible for me to tell whether they were the real deal or the Simplified Alps Type III clone switches, which appear almost identical apart from the slightly different top shells and the slider color, which is more vivid blue.
I am not sure how common these clone switches are; my impression is that they appeared only for a very brief time in FK-2001s. Still, that possibility, however minute, their conditions, and my general distrust of Taobao made me just pass on the whole thing entirely. I should have more SKCM Browns on my way to me anyway, so I don't mind. :p
Another reason I bought that one also, didn't want to risk getting screwed after all the shipping fee's etc. At first I thought that one board Wingpad mentioned was a KPT switch b/c of the bright slider and bad quality of pics. The other boards look legit however :thumb:
Post by: emdude on Fri, 17 June 2016, 22:10:20
And I've already got three Alps builds that I have yet to complete, I don't want to make that four by getting yet more Alps. :))
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 22:19:31
They probably all have a pretty good chance of being genuine, the one board Wingpad was referring to appears to not have switches with the four mounting tabs typical of KPT switches and most other clones. I am just a scaredy-cat, I've heard many horror stories about dirty alps.. :-[
Yea, the slider color made me think they were KPT at first, then remembered about those weird type 3 clones with real shells. Tricky switch to identify for sure. I'm confident about my switches coming out well. IMO its only dust, it can be removed. The internals themselves arent broken or anything. Switches that have a ton of grime also are probably well used, so I think that contributes more to the "shot" switches I keep hearing about.
one of the ones I got were ansi, but the other 2 were big ass enter and 1u backspace. wingpad's board from the same listing is also 1u backspace and big ass enter. There was a focus 2001 on there with blue alps, but for some reason the switches looked fake to me.
Yeah those switches looked like these switches (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Simplified_Alps_Type_III) to me, I can't remember if it had a windows key or not, though. Either way, they were just too blue to be real alps. The listing is gone otherwise I would have another look at it and try to figure out what they were.
I hope I don't need to clean my switches, either, given that my board has all of the keycaps and looked fairly clean I think I should be OK.
EDIT: I found a picture of the item in question, it looks like it could have had windows keys at one time since there are cutouts in the plate but they seem to narrow to have had actual keys there. IDKShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/VC7T7bj.jpg)
Hopefully! Yours looks very clean. I don't mind cleaning Alps switches anymore, i've done it enough times lol. About 230 in switches total :confused:
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 00:24:33
Post by: E3E on Sat, 18 June 2016, 00:53:41
THe unit illustrated is sort of interesting. The font on the keycaps, straight ANSI layout-- it looks a lot like the mysterious Blue Alps Model M clones as seen on Deskthority.
Yep, I saw this board, or this batch of boards on TaoBao ages ago, and I considered it when thinking of plates I could use for my NCR Alps project without needing to get one made myself (which I had planned on doing initially, but hey).
The costar-style stabilization and ANSI layout gives it away, in my opinion. I hear that one of them was had from TaoBao, so I wouldn't be surprised. They probably show up every now and then, though of course hopefully not always as beat up as this one.
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 18 June 2016, 01:00:32
Really wish I trusted taobao enough to join yall on this Alps adventure. Everyone got a great/interesting haul
Personally I think its pretty safe, we have multiple members who have gotten stuff from there without any issues :) Its all about choosing the right proxy imo. Bhiner is ok but rips you off and Taobaoring is pretty fair and has a good rep around here.
Lol yea everyone got somthing cool. SKCM Blue, SKCL Green, cool caps and more! Really glad I spent the time Taobao-fuing to find the goldmine of a Taobao seller. Navigating the site is quite hard.
Yeah, navigating the site is quite hard, I'm just glad I did all the heavy lifting of the account creation process before these boards came up. I already had my address entered and lord knows that took me a good 15-20 minutes to figure out how to enter the first time. I didn't end up going through a proxy just because I don't necessarily trust them. I don't trust Taobao either, to be fair, but I was willing to take a risk with these boards because in the chance I get a good, clean alps blue keyboard I'll be one of the happiest guys around.
They probably all have a pretty good chance of being genuine, the one board Wingpad was referring to appears to not have switches with the four mounting tabs typical of KPT switches and most other clones. I am just a scaredy-cat, I've heard many horror stories about dirty alps.. :-[
Ahhh, now you're starting to scare me a bit, too. crosses fingers please be genuine and not super dirty, taobao blue switches.
Yea, the slider color made me think they were KPT at first, then remembered about those weird type 3 clones with real shells. Tricky switch to identify for sure. I'm confident about my switches coming out well. IMO its only dust, it can be removed. The internals themselves arent broken or anything. Switches that have a ton of grime also are probably well used, so I think that contributes more to the "shot" switches I keep hearing about.
...
Hopefully! Yours looks very clean. I don't mind cleaning Alps switches anymore, i've done it enough times lol. About 230 in switches total :confused:
That listing is the only one I suspected mostly because of the sliders' color. The other listings looked more consistent with the blue switches we know and love.
Yeah, Alps switches aren't that bad to clean, at least from my experience. I just wonder if the lube used in the SKCM Blues will complicate the process but I am optimistic that it won't after working on some SKCL greens.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 01:12:53
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 18 June 2016, 01:27:23
Holy **** guys, they dude has a new batch of SKCM Blue boards on the listing! :eek:
Daaang, he must be sitting on a pile of these things.
Post by: emdude on Sat, 18 June 2016, 01:34:25
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 01:36:43
Haha, maybe I will pick up a few for myself, wallet forgive me. :pmy wallet is already too hacked, plus I have 3 on the way, hopefully.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 01:46:53
He also refreshed the SKCL Green listing w/ this odd looking 84 key thing.
Post by: emdude on Sat, 18 June 2016, 03:30:17
I am also working on an AT101/SGI plate, I need measurements for the space bar stabilizers, including the circular clips and the bottom two stabs. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could contribute those as well.
EDIT: As I suspected, I screwed up with the stepped Caps Lock, I will fix this in a bit.
EDIT 2: Fixed Caps Lock issue, the plate seems to be off based on a test print. Hope it isn't an issue.
EDIT 3: Double-checked, should be okay actually.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 18 June 2016, 09:01:16
It is hard for me to find pre-r00tw0rm stuff, my "-fu" is not the greatest, but it may be here somewhere.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 18 June 2016, 09:20:13
I know that it is mostly off-topic, but did you see the AT101 chop job that grimey did a few years ago?
It is hard for me to find pre-r00tw0rm stuff, my "-fu" is not the greatest, but it may be here somewhere.
My fufu skills are pretty okay. :P
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9542.0
I remember another one without the broken picture links though.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=16754
This isn't it either. Huh.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 18 June 2016, 13:23:27
This one's interesting for the lettering on the caps: https://world.taobao.com/item/533916632442.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-2302559237.37.IvJCRd
Honestly, though, I threw $144 at that i-Rocks "new Alps but sort of MX" board crowdfunding fiasco so my budget is shot for a while.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 18 June 2016, 16:57:11
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 18 June 2016, 20:04:15
Here is a render of what it will (should?) look like:
[attach=1]
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 20:18:58
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 23:35:09
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-lot-SKBM-Keyboard-switch-grey-axis/32601728123.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_1_10017_507,searchweb201603_11&btsid=1f0cbe65-349c-48bf-ad16-e60355e4612b
Also some cool Plate Springs and caps. Those doubleshots remind me of 2 piece BS caps, look similar in a way.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-lot-alp-Keypads-Keyboards-switch-white/32653375208.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_1_10017_507,searchweb201603_11&btsid=1f0cbe65-349c-48bf-ad16-e60355e4612b
Post by: deductivemonkee on Sun, 19 June 2016, 00:28:20
https://matias.store/products/keycap-set-black-blank (https://matias.store/products/keycap-set-black-blank)
Or does someone have a set of AW they can part with?
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 19 June 2016, 01:35:19
I have a TP4. The stock caps are okay, OEM profile. Stabilizers are ALPS-mount except the spacebar which is Costar-style IIRC.` It's nice that they seem to rpovide an abundance of caps to handle different layout choices.
What board do you want to fit? The Tai Hao sets are nice for some boards, but limited in what they fit well-- mostly the new KBParadise boards.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 19 June 2016, 04:26:48
[attach=1]
Should be more or less done now, barring major screw-ups. Anyone with an AT101W is more than welcome to try this out with a test print; I don't have one so I cannot do it myself, unfortunately.
EDIT: Updated with more accurate measurements thanks to alh84001, I am more confident about this one.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 19 June 2016, 05:01:47
Post by: deductivemonkee on Sun, 19 June 2016, 15:32:47
Well, I'd assume theyr're the same as the stock Tactile Pro 4 ones but blank.I was looking for something to replace my tai-hao dolch on my alps64, colors are horrible with the rest of my desk.
I have a TP4. The stock caps are okay, OEM profile. Stabilizers are ALPS-mount except the spacebar which is Costar-style IIRC.` It's nice that they seem to rpovide an abundance of caps to handle different layout choices.
What board do you want to fit? The Tai Hao sets are nice for some boards, but limited in what they fit well-- mostly the new KBParadise boards.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 19 June 2016, 21:32:53
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 00:07:26
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 20 June 2016, 01:31:23
Retrobrighting and repairing my FK-3001. What a pain. Had to completely take apart the calculator mechanism and desolder it. At least now when i'm done the screen will be like new.Focus boards are lovely, it will be worth it I'm sure.
The FK-2001 I had was a huge PTO to disassemble because the tabs would break easily if you weren't careful opening it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 12:00:06
Retrobrighting and repairing my FK-3001. What a pain. Had to completely take apart the calculator mechanism and desolder it. At least now when i'm done the screen will be like new.Focus boards are lovely, it will be worth it I'm sure.
The FK-2001 I had was a huge PTO to disassemble because the tabs would break easily if you weren't careful opening it.
It will be great when its done. Funny, with the display and everything is desoldered the numpad doesn't work in any mode. Num lock and the buttons to switch between calc and keyboard mode still do however.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 20 June 2016, 13:25:10
[attach=1]
Any thoughts, guys? Do any of you know if anyone has done something like this before? This could potentially be endgame material for me and should be feasible by harvesting caps from an Apple Standard Keyboard and an Apple Extended Keyboard. The only things I would have to worry about are the stupid rotated stems of the Apple F-keys but I should be able to account for that with some clever plate engineering. In addition, I have an old Apple Design Keyboard with Alps-compatible stems that has correctly rotated F-keys that I could use if worse comes to worst. Regardless, in my opinion, this is an interesting layout that warrants further thought.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 14:22:36
I was tinkering with KLE this afternoon after I looked at the new Redscarf GB on Massdrop and thought to myself "I want that, but with Alps switches!" So began a quest to create something similar and here is what I came up with:You have no idea how excited I am about this. I would be soooo in on this gb
(Attachment Link)
Any thoughts, guys? Do any of you know if anyone has done something like this before? This could potentially be endgame material for me and should be feasible by harvesting an Apple Standard Keyboard and an Apple Extended Keyboard. The only things I would have to worry about are the stupid rotated stems of the Apple F-keys but I should be able to account for that with some clever plate engineering. In addition, I have an old Apple Design Keyboard with Alps-compatible stems that has correctly rotated F-keys that I could use if worse comes to worst. Regardless, in my opinion, this was an interesting layout that warrants further thought.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: emdude on Mon, 20 June 2016, 15:24:25
I was tinkering with KLE this afternoon after I looked at the new Redscarf GB on Massdrop and thought to myself "I want that, but with Alps switches!" So began a quest to create something similar and here is what I came up with:
(Attachment Link)
Any thoughts, guys? Do any of you know if anyone has done something like this before? This could potentially be endgame material for me and should be feasible by harvesting caps from an Apple Standard Keyboard and an Apple Extended Keyboard. The only things I would have to worry about are the stupid rotated stems of the Apple F-keys but I should be able to account for that with some clever plate engineering. In addition, I have an old Apple Design Keyboard with Alps-compatible stems that has correctly rotated F-keys that I could use if worse comes to worst. Regardless, in my opinion, this is an interesting layout that warrants further thought.
This looks neat, but I personally would not like the mismatching profiles of the function row and the other non-alphanumeric keys. It does not help that Apple also made their own profile with extra-tall function key stems so I imagine those would stick out like a sore thumb.
Maybe if there were DSA-profile Alps key caps.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 20 June 2016, 15:50:09
This looks neat, but I personally would not like the mismatching profiles of the function row and the other non-alphanumeric keys. It does not help that Apple also made their own profile with extra-tall function key stems so I imagine those would stick out like a sore thumb.
Maybe if there were DSA-profile Alps key caps.
Hmmm, I wonder if there is a way to clear off the dye-sublimated labels from original apple caps and use them as blanks which would solve this issue. Something like this:
[attach=1]
Worse comes to worst, there are always DSA-profile Alps Key Caps (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-1-space-pack-of-10/) ;)
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 16:30:37
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:30:55
When (and if) you do the GB, Could you offer options on the plate? I love the split backspace and split right shift layout on my alps64. If you havent tried backspace on the 2nd row (hhkb style), give it a shot. I like it alot more than backspace on the first row.
It's definitely an if at this point, haha. I am going to look into the case design for it later and how viable this could be. While I am doing that, I can look into the option of being able to split those keys. It would once again come back to a matter of finding appropriate keycaps, though... hmmm
I have tried it on the home row (colemak) and I just kept forgetting it was there, haha, definitely would have to disable it in its "natural" position to get used to it more. I am getting an HHKB at some point in the near future, though, and I'm looking forward to experimenting with that.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:35:19
well ****. looks like im only getting 1 blue alps board. Hopeffully noone snags the other one I ordered out from under me.
Post by: need on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:42:10
That one has blue Alps clones if you look closer.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i4yEvcs.png)
well ****. looks like im only getting 1 blue alps board. Hopeffully noone snags the other one I ordered out from under me.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:42:50
Post by: emdude on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:46:46
@need, how do you know they are clones? The pictures were pretty horrible to begin with but I could not tell if they were genuine SKCM Blues or Simplified Type IIIs when I was viewing the listing.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:47:12
Wait, are these the same boards you were trying to get last week? Shame if they are. :confused:yup.
Post by: emdude on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:49:13
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:50:37
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i4yEvcs.png)
well ****. looks like im only getting 1 blue alps board. Hopeffully noone snags the other one I ordered out from under me.
I am really sorry to hear that man :(
@need, how do you know they are clones? The pictures were pretty horrible to begin with but I could not tell if they were genuine SKCM Blues or Simplified Type IIIs when I was viewing the listing.
Here is a higher res image of one of them that I saved since it matched the board I bought, these look genuine to me:
[attach=1]
Post by: emdude on Mon, 20 June 2016, 18:55:52
Post by: chyros on Mon, 20 June 2016, 19:09:12
Post by: need on Mon, 20 June 2016, 19:55:31
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 20 June 2016, 21:25:41
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 20 June 2016, 21:51:33
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i4yEvcs.png)
well ****. looks like im only getting 1 blue alps board. Hopeffully noone snags the other one I ordered out from under me.
I am really sorry to hear that man :(@need, how do you know they are clones? The pictures were pretty horrible to begin with but I could not tell if they were genuine SKCM Blues or Simplified Type IIIs when I was viewing the listing.
Here is a higher res image of one of them that I saved since it matched the board I bought, these look genuine to me:
[attach=1]
Bottom rows are sometimes creative on older keyboards.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 21:54:53
Bottom rows are sometimes creative on older keyboards.I dont know why they would go out if their way to put real alps switches on the bottom row if the rest is all clones, that doesnt really make sense from a buisness standpoint. Stop making me doubt my purchase :))
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 22:08:52
Well ****, that sucks. Where did you get that message? What proxy did you use? I hope I don't get the same. I did order before anyone else so I think i'm ok.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i4yEvcs.png)
well ****. looks like im only getting 1 blue alps board. Hopeffully noone snags the other one I ordered out from under me.
I believe I saw somewhere said that IBM blue Alps are counterfeit boards made in Hong Kong, and have clones for that reason.
Nah man, nah. Those Model M clones are genuine, the one on deskthority is legit and from the pic of the one I ordered on the listing you can see multiple switchplates.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 22:10:38
I used taobaofocus, im not worried about getting my money back for what I did t get to order, Ive heard good things about them.Well ****, that sucks. Where did you get that message? What proxy did you use? I hope I don't get the same. I did order before anyone else so I think i'm ok.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i4yEvcs.png)
well ****. looks like im only getting 1 blue alps board. Hopeffully noone snags the other one I ordered out from under me.I believe I saw somewhere said that IBM blue Alps are counterfeit boards made in Hong Kong, and have clones for that reason.
Nah man, nah. Those Model M clones are genuine, the one on deskthority is legit and from the pic of the one I ordered on the listing you can see multiple switchplates.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 22:15:44
(http://i.imgur.com/3YcnQq2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qreJiLf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Hs02lrG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KQfC2RV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1NB9tcB.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 22:20:41
Well, here it is. I present a restored FK-3001. Nice and white! :D I couldn't totally fix the screen but whatever. Still displays something legible.That looks really good. I couldnt be bothered to try retrobriting my omnikey, so I painted it. I found a real "90s Beige" color, and I think it turned out good. Paint is still drying, Will update thread with pics tomorrow. Im gonna be a few switches short of blue alpsifying it, so if anyone out of the kindness of their heart wants to offload ~5 skcm blues, they know where to ship em to :)) (this is all contingent on taobao coming through for me of course)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3YcnQq2.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qreJiLf.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Hs02lrG.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KQfC2RV.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1NB9tcB.jpg)
Post by: romevi on Mon, 20 June 2016, 22:36:26
Well, here it is. I present a restored FK-3001. Nice and white! :D I couldn't totally fix the screen but whatever. Still displays something legible.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3YcnQq2.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qreJiLf.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Hs02lrG.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KQfC2RV.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1NB9tcB.jpg)
Very pristine. For a while I contemplated getting one of the Focus boards and the cut the plate for an Alps64, but now I'm leaning toward something simpler.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 June 2016, 23:22:37
Well, here it is. I present a restored FK-3001. Nice and white! :D I couldn't totally fix the screen but whatever. Still displays something legible.That looks really good. I couldnt be bothered to try retrobriting my omnikey, so I painted it. I found a real "90s Beige" color, and I think it turned out good. Paint is still drying, Will update thread with pics tomorrow. Im gonna be a few switches short of blue alpsifying it, so if anyone out of the kindness of their heart wants to offload ~5 skcm blues, they know where to ship em to :)) (this is all contingent on taobao coming through for me of course)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3YcnQq2.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qreJiLf.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Hs02lrG.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KQfC2RV.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1NB9tcB.jpg)
Thanks. Retrobrighting is a bit of a pain but its worth it. Its cool imo to have (in this case) a 27 year old keyboard that looks and feels brand new :) Total I have done 3 so far, a AEKII, SGI Granite and the Focus. This is the first time doing all the caps since I have lucked out w/ PBT caps till now. May or may not do the IBM sphericals.
I only have 1 SKCM Blue right now for my tester so I can't help ya :(
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 21 June 2016, 01:53:56
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 02:31:42
That focus is absolutely stunning. 10/10
Thanks. Here are some extra pics. Love the popup display. The biggest change that stood out to me was the caps, they look so sharp and pristinely white. I had gotten used to their yellow haze. Date on PCB is 10/24/1989.
(http://i.imgur.com/Shd1fd4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/a3BJtIs.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 21 June 2016, 03:08:12
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 21 June 2016, 03:27:31
Noice! That 3001 is looking really good :) . I never noticed how similar it is to the 2001 if you don't look at the right side of the keyboard.It's hard to make an old Focus look bad.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 21 June 2016, 05:16:47
This is very true... I'll probably never forgive myself for missing out on that black FK-2001 a while ago xD .Noice! That 3001 is looking really good :) . I never noticed how similar it is to the 2001 if you don't look at the right side of the keyboard.It's hard to make an old Focus look bad.
Post by: Magna224 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 08:46:29
Well, here it is. I present a restored FK-3001. Nice and white! :D I couldn't totally fix the screen but whatever. Still displays something legible.
Looking spiffy!
Here's a picture of mine and a few others I had laid out for someone to try out. (Ironically out of Focus)
(http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww18/y3ma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/CCB36542-6AD2-4F6F-A1D6-A5DE34505540_zpso58q6wrz.jpg) (http://s701.photobucket.com/user/y3ma/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/CCB36542-6AD2-4F6F-A1D6-A5DE34505540_zpso58q6wrz.jpg.html)
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 09:23:59
Nice wang! what is that numpad?Well, here it is. I present a restored FK-3001. Nice and white! :D I couldn't totally fix the screen but whatever. Still displays something legible.
Looking spiffy!
Here's a picture of mine and a few others I had laid out for someone to try out. (Ironically out of Focus)
(http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww18/y3ma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/CCB36542-6AD2-4F6F-A1D6-A5DE34505540_zpso58q6wrz.jpg) (http://s701.photobucket.com/user/y3ma/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/CCB36542-6AD2-4F6F-A1D6-A5DE34505540_zpso58q6wrz.jpg.html)
Post by: Magna224 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 10:59:25
Nice wang! what is that numpad?
Thanks! I've never used it's just disassembled in my closet. It's a really nice keyboard though. Some day when I have less keyboards that need attention I'll make a cord for it and put it back together.
As for the number pad... Its one of these (http://launchpadoffice.com/wordpress/?tag=keypad). It has a wrist wrest too and I got it for $3 in what seemed like new condition in the box. I have a green mitsumi switch one too that works and I use with the wrist wrest when I need a keypad. If anyone used it they didn't use it very long. The plate was CLEAN and the pad printed keycaps had no signs of wear. This guy (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-KeyPad-Keyboard-Numerical-Brand-New-/282067214199?hash=item41ac841f77:g:~bYAAMXQUmFSk9vd) took my $10 offer and the keypad is very similar but with a different connection but has very similar parts. If I see cheap mechanical keyboards like that I just buy them for parts/projects.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:18:38
(http://i.imgur.com/WOwdTJ9.jpg)
Very yellowed, pretty nasty too.
(http://i.imgur.com/PF0UtD9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oufM4hE.jpg)
Looks good to me!
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:28:01
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:39:51
The SKCM Blues look alright and restorable but that top row is filthy! :eek: Going to have to do some more in depth cleaning for those. The rest only need a good dusting.
(http://i.imgur.com/FAvxr01.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qH1nfjv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o77zbjw.jpg)
The Multistation looks great!
(http://i.imgur.com/udoSypt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pXipDem.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 21 June 2016, 14:04:43
Is the one with the blue Alps from an Alps M by any chance? The super tall F keys really remind me of that.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 14:30:23
It looks soooo dirtyyyyy xD . Hopefully they clean up well! Don't forget to clean the inside of the top housing and the slider well too, that's where most of the friction is!
Is the one with the blue Alps from an Alps M by any chance? The super tall F keys really remind me of that.
Will do. Yea its that Model M clone. It will clean up well ;)
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 14:33:46
(http://i.imgur.com/0ap4IIm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hdmQqJ1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KsoiLE7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CSw4PCc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uiaiCUy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9nD9RaC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Cv8s5A6.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 15:40:21
I bought several from that guy too. My favorite is the SHARP X68000 that I got for like $40, I can use it to restore my (near) mint beige X68000 and maybe swap switches into my black X68000. Here's what I got from him:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0ap4IIm.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hdmQqJ1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KsoiLE7.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/CSw4PCc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uiaiCUy.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9nD9RaC.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Cv8s5A6.jpg)
Ah, you were the one who bought the X68000, that came from the same listing as my Multistation. Both were $30 each :) See you grabbed a couple SKCM Blue boards as well.
How much was shipping for you? Mine is $70 for both boards and they apparently weigh 7.2 pounds. Yours must be more since you have 3?
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 21 June 2016, 15:42:11
How much was shipping for you? Mine is $70, and both boards, and they apparently weigh 7.2 pounds. Yours must be more since you have 3?
I paid $40 to ship two boards and a set of caps. No clue how much it all weighs, haha.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 15:44:12
How much was shipping for you? Mine is $70, and both boards, and they apparently weigh 7.2 pounds. Yours must be more since you have 3?
I paid $40 to ship two boards and a set of caps. No clue how much it all weighs, haha.
Hmm. That Multistation must be heavy or something then.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 21 June 2016, 17:19:00
Hmm. That Multistation must be heavy or something then.
That's actually a very low shipping rate for two keyboards from TaoBao. Sounds about right to me. You can't expect to pay anything less than $20 on shipping from TaoBao. My Monterey K103 101 was $63 + $57 to ship.
Which is why I really hate ordering from TaoBao.
You could choose the cheaper options of shipping though, but it will take considerably longer.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 21 June 2016, 17:23:10
As promised some pics of my painted omnikey. looks pretty good to me! The only before pics I have are the pics from the ebay listing I bought it from.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WOwdTJ9.jpg)
Very yellowed, pretty nasty too.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PF0UtD9.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oufM4hE.jpg)
Looks good to me!
Looks good! Personally, I'd always relent when it comes to painting vintage keyboard cases as it kills the natural translucence of the plastic and is also more vulnerable to scratches. I'd rather retrobright or dye. Wingpad made me aware of a VHT Vinyl dye that does actually dye plastics as advertised (not just a coating), which I totally would've used for my Orion v2's space bar if I had known.
It seems like it'd work very well on cases.
I should have also said that I HAVE tried painting an old case, my original NTC 6151N. I was just really unsatisfied with how the paint ruined the kind of natural look of the plastic, and I tried like three different kinds of off-white to get what I wanted; it just never looked right to my eyes.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 18:40:53
Hmm. That Multistation must be heavy or something then.
That's actually a very low shipping rate for two keyboards from TaoBao. Sounds about right to me. You can't expect to pay anything less than $20 on shipping from TaoBao. My Monterey K103 101 was $63 + $57 to ship.
Which is why I really hate ordering from TaoBao.
You could choose the cheaper options of shipping though, but it will take considerably longer.
I guess it depends, didn't expect 7 pounds though. Wingpad got 2 boards and some caps shipped for $40. I would do Airmail over EMS but i'm over the weight limit.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 21 June 2016, 19:18:22
(http://i.imgur.com/WVzSfRt.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 13:16:37
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 22 June 2016, 15:26:12
My stuff has shipped :)
Cool beans, my stuff currently appears to be state-side, woohoo!
(http://i.imgur.com/IsPgCRz.png)
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 15:52:39
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 16:13:19
I am off to go through some thrift stores in my city to find something of value. Please pray for me to keep the rubber domes far and few!Good luck buddy, I have found an AEKII clone, A KB-5161 with monterey blues, some ****ty foam and foil board, and my sharp SKCL green typewriter, whose switches are in my alps64.
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 16:18:01
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 16:22:26
I think I've been to every flea market and Goodwill in the state of Kentucky and the only thing I've found are a few HP and a few Dell rubber domes.Now that is some ****ty luck. I guess florida has better thrift stores.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 22 June 2016, 16:31:15
I think I've been to every flea market and Goodwill in the state of Kentucky and the only thing I've found are a few HP and a few Dell rubber domes.
I'm surprised, I would think you'd be able to find IBMs at least, with their old manufacturing operation in Lexington (then Lexmark's, now Unicomp's). :P
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 16:32:50
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 18:52:07
Sorry for potato pics:
(http://i.imgur.com/goswbJBr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/waKrhqw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/U4KYQ2A.jpg)
I cant use it because the pins in the PS/2 port are bent to hell. Shame because I actually quite like the keyfeel. I have a full set of somewhat decent laser etched ALPS caps in a "Focus" layout at least. They also "fart" a little if you press them right xD
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 19:02:54
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 19:10:25
Those are btc dome with sliders, the oversized esc is a telltale sign of a btc board. Theyre said to be some of the best dome with slider boards made.Strange. They don't look at all like BTC Dome With Sliders switches though and are ALPS mount.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 22 June 2016, 19:17:14
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 19:58:15
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 21:19:26
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 21:27:08
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 22:11:14
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 23:22:17
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 23:24:09
Not sure what you mean by oversized escape but it's possible that the one you are thinking of was a BTC branded Silitek.The escape key is 1.25u on that board, that definitely is oversized, most btc boards have 1.25u esc keys
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 22 June 2016, 23:51:26
Not sure what you mean by oversized escape but it's possible that the one you are thinking of was a BTC branded Silitek.The escape key is 1.25u on that board, that definitely is oversized, most btc boards have 1.25u esc keys
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah, well the Focus FK-8000 I had, had a giant (1.5U?) Esc so it's not limited to just BTC.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 23:59:27
Post by: chyros on Thu, 23 June 2016, 02:56:47
Companies other than BTC did use 1.25 u escape keys, but not nearly as prevalently. As Blaise pointed out, Focus started doing this during their second generation of keyboards and kept on doing it until the end as far as I'm aware. They're easy to distinguish however as BTC used lasered keycaps and very recognisable fonts, whereas Focus used doubleshots with what I think is standard Helvetica (or some other standard font).
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 08:08:45
It's a Fujitsu dome with slider board, but not the more typical Fujitsu dome with slider switch observed in for example the Type 5c.Didnt wang use large esc keys on some of their terminal boards?
Companies other than BTC did use 1.25 u escape keys, but not nearly as prevalently. As Blaise pointed out, Focus started doing this during their second generation of keyboards and kept on doing it until the end as far as I'm aware. They're easy to distinguish however as BTC used lasered keycaps and very recognisable fonts, whereas Focus used doubleshots with what I think is standard Helvetica (or some other standard font).
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 08:25:13
http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087 (http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087)
I asked for a better, clearer photo of the switch also, The markings on the top housing seem to be a good sign.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 23 June 2016, 08:41:51
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 09:15:50
http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421 (http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421)
Post by: chyros on Thu, 23 June 2016, 10:15:35
Didnt wang use large esc keys on some of their terminal boards?If you mean the 3771; no, but the confusion is understandable; there is a 1.25 u Help key where the Esc key should normally be xD .
Got photos from my proxy, what do you guys think? They look real to me. apparently the board I got was focus layout, score!I can't see those pics, need to log in. Can you host them somewhere else perhaps?
http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087 (http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087)
I asked for a better, clearer photo of the switch also, The markings on the top housing seem to be a good sign.
In my experience with yellow alps, which is very limited, I have never seen yellow sliders this "vibrant". The plate on that board is so incredibly rusted I think the switches would be trashed anyway.Yellow Alps are always very desaturated AFAIK. Some linear Alps clones do have very intense yellow sliders though, including ones I found on a Focus board as lock light switches.
http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421 (http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 10:47:05
Here, I put together an imgur album of all the pictures my proxy sent me.Didnt wang use large esc keys on some of their terminal boards?If you mean the 3771; no, but the confusion is understandable; there is a 1.25 u Help key where the Esc key should normally be xD .Got photos from my proxy, what do you guys think? They look real to me. apparently the board I got was focus layout, score!I can't see those pics, need to log in. Can you host them somewhere else perhaps?
http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087 (http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087)
I asked for a better, clearer photo of the switch also, The markings on the top housing seem to be a good sign.In my experience with yellow alps, which is very limited, I have never seen yellow sliders this "vibrant". The plate on that board is so incredibly rusted I think the switches would be trashed anyway.Yellow Alps are always very desaturated AFAIK. Some linear Alps clones do have very intense yellow sliders though, including ones I found on a Focus board as lock light switches.
http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421 (http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421)
http://imgur.com/a/aFZFu (http://imgur.com/a/aFZFu)
As for the wang help key, what does it do when plugged into a normal pc? does it send scan codes?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 23 June 2016, 11:30:02
On my converter I think it sent some kind of modifier + F key combo. Most of the weird keys on the board did that.Here, I put together an imgur album of all the pictures my proxy sent me.Didnt wang use large esc keys on some of their terminal boards?If you mean the 3771; no, but the confusion is understandable; there is a 1.25 u Help key where the Esc key should normally be xD .Got photos from my proxy, what do you guys think? They look real to me. apparently the board I got was focus layout, score!I can't see those pics, need to log in. Can you host them somewhere else perhaps?
http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087 (http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087)
I asked for a better, clearer photo of the switch also, The markings on the top housing seem to be a good sign.In my experience with yellow alps, which is very limited, I have never seen yellow sliders this "vibrant". The plate on that board is so incredibly rusted I think the switches would be trashed anyway.Yellow Alps are always very desaturated AFAIK. Some linear Alps clones do have very intense yellow sliders though, including ones I found on a Focus board as lock light switches.
http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421 (http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421)
http://imgur.com/a/aFZFu (http://imgur.com/a/aFZFu)
As for the wang help key, what does it do when plugged into a normal pc? does it send scan codes?
As for the board, does that have one of those EEPROM chips on it? Oo
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 11:33:40
Yup, that ceramic EEPROM seems really strange. Im hoping its a sign that the board is early enough NOT to have simplified type 3 blue alps. Could you check the switches for me? they look real enough.On my converter I think it sent some kind of modifier + F key combo. Most of the weird keys on the board did that.Here, I put together an imgur album of all the pictures my proxy sent me.Didnt wang use large esc keys on some of their terminal boards?If you mean the 3771; no, but the confusion is understandable; there is a 1.25 u Help key where the Esc key should normally be xD .Got photos from my proxy, what do you guys think? They look real to me. apparently the board I got was focus layout, score!I can't see those pics, need to log in. Can you host them somewhere else perhaps?
http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087 (http://taobaofocus.com/orders/photos.en.php?id=89087)
I asked for a better, clearer photo of the switch also, The markings on the top housing seem to be a good sign.In my experience with yellow alps, which is very limited, I have never seen yellow sliders this "vibrant". The plate on that board is so incredibly rusted I think the switches would be trashed anyway.Yellow Alps are always very desaturated AFAIK. Some linear Alps clones do have very intense yellow sliders though, including ones I found on a Focus board as lock light switches.
http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421 (http://shop.taobaofocus.com/item.php?id=40786928421)
http://imgur.com/a/aFZFu (http://imgur.com/a/aFZFu)
As for the wang help key, what does it do when plugged into a normal pc? does it send scan codes?
As for the board, does that have one of those EEPROM chips on it? Oo
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 13:04:54
They look legit to me. That chip looks like a good indication also. Plus those are quite rare so I would think there would be a higher chance of SKCM Blues than the type 3's since the seller had so much SKCM Blue on hand.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 23 June 2016, 13:30:50
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 13:48:27
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 15:39:58
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:47:26
Nothing again. typical.When go to a thrift shop you must go with a clear mind with no expectations. That is the only time you will find anything of value.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:52:17
I never really expect much, most of my items ive gotten at thrift shops came from times I just went on a whim, or times I went looking for something else.Nothing again. typical.When go to a thrift shop you must go with a clear mind with no expectations. That is the only time you will find anything of value.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:18:26
(http://i.imgur.com/O7hfk9B.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tLVNXld.jpg)
Have one more spot, wish it to be SKCL Brown.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:21:00
Post by: chyros on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:24:21
Post by: E3E on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:31:01
:DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/O7hfk9B.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tLVNXld.jpg)
Have one more spot, wish it to be SKCL Brown.
Ahh finally, the mythical, comprehensive Alps switch tester you've been putting together. I remember that number pad. Very nice, Mattr. :)
I'm keeping my SKCL Browns as spares if I ever need a replacement for my NCR, though I could always just use the switch plates from SKCL compact to repair broken switches (and I have), but I don't know.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:41:59
looks like fun! what numpad did you use as the base?This unbranded Chinese numpad. It had some nasty clones. There are two versions, one is a standard numpad and the other is mine, rows of 1U's. Perfect.
Ahh finally, the mythical, comprehensive Alps switch tester you've been putting together. I remember that number pad. Very nice, Mattr. :)
I'm keeping my SKCL Browns as spares if I ever need a replacement for my NCR, though I could always just use the switch plates from SKCL compact to repair broken switches (and I have), but I don't know.
Thanks. Been slowly amassing switches from various sources. How many extras do you have? Not going to bager you or anything but it would really top it off. After I get a SKCL Brown im going to send this along with my MX/Gat/Kailh tester for a tour. I'm sure the people would love to see it.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 20:50:42
(http://i.imgur.com/ZOdBAdu.png)
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 23:35:47
Post by: romevi on Fri, 24 June 2016, 10:56:56
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 24 June 2016, 10:59:33
Okay, been following this thread and can't put it off anymore. Might bite the bullet and order SKCM Blue and SKCL Green boards that TB seller has. They look pretty beat up; how much of a risk is everyone taking just for the switches?if you order the skcl green board he has up right now Ill buy all the keycaps off of you
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: romevi on Fri, 24 June 2016, 11:23:41
Anyone able to tell what the main difference is?
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 24 June 2016, 22:00:52
On the Green listing there are selections for "Green Big" and "Green Small." When I click either there's no difference other than price.
Anyone able to tell what the main difference is?
I would be interested to know as well, I was trying to figure that out earlier. Order both and find out? :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 12:34:16
The switches are dirtier than I expected. Even the greens are quite scratchy. Some of them stick down too. Will have to clean both.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 13:27:20
(http://i.imgur.com/CZK9RDd.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/zpJ0Uik.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/r4msq8E.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/muW3a54.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o6Asyyh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1m0EaFi.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Sat, 25 June 2016, 14:12:35
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 14:52:53
Hmmm, do those greens have black switchplates then? =oYep!
(http://i.imgur.com/FBmQSWt.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Sat, 25 June 2016, 15:58:20
Post by: emdude on Sat, 25 June 2016, 16:56:02
(http://i.imgur.com/jbumj2h.jpg)
Post by: Moistgun on Sat, 25 June 2016, 17:43:24
Woohoo, looks like I'll be able to get my hands on another IBM 5140 keyboard! Quite excited. ;DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/jbumj2h.jpg)
Which Alps come in a 5140?
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 17:47:35
Woohoo, looks like I'll be able to get my hands on another IBM 5140 keyboard! Quite excited. ;Ddamnit man why do you have to get all the brown alpsShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/jbumj2h.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: emdude on Sat, 25 June 2016, 17:59:37
Woohoo, looks like I'll be able to get my hands on another IBM 5140 keyboard! Quite excited. ;DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/jbumj2h.jpg)
Which Alps come in a 5140?
Always brown Alps, this is probably the best way to get them too.
Post by: wsxdr on Sat, 25 June 2016, 18:10:40
Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 18:14:35
What sort of Alps switch exist? (like cherry's blue, red,,,)
Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.
The genuine Alps SKCM switches ceased production back in the 90s, when they sold their production equipment to Forward who then made the simplified switches into the mid 2000s. After Forward ceased production, no new Alps switches are made, only clones such as Matias, Hua Jie, and Xiang Min. As for which switches there are, here is the wiki page with all of the (known/documented) types on there.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Variants
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 18:49:48
What sort of Alps switch exist? (like cherry's blue, red,,,)Wow, what perefect timing ! Chyros Just uploaded a video detailing types and colors of alps switches. Give it a watch.
Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 25 June 2016, 20:06:26
What sort of Alps switch exist? (like cherry's blue, red,,,)
Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.
They are not manufactured anymore unfortunately. The only new "ALPS" switches made today are Matias switches. They are not as good as the originals but they're still good switches and are readily available. They come in clicky, linear, and tactile. (Matias Click, Matias Quiet Linear, and Matias Quiet Click respectively)
ALPS made a large variety of switches and there is also an ungodly amount of clones. Typically the most common ones are Clicky White ALPS and Tactile Black ALPS and the most valued switches are Clicky SKCM Blue ALPS and Linear SKCL Green. Check out Chyros's videos, they're extremely informative.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 20:08:35
the most valued switches are Clicky SKCM Blue ALPS and Linear SKCL Green.I personally think skcm brown is more valuable and alot more rare than skcl green
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 20:19:39
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 21:48:09
I'm about half way through processing everything. I have removed all the caps, cleaned the plates, de-soldered the SKCM Blue's and taken apart the SKCL Greens. The blues were so dirty i'm going to have to clean the bottoms separably etc. The greens were bad but not enough so I cleaned them still soldered in. I ran into a issue though, even after cleaning the greens still felt bad.
So I did some experimenting to find out why the greens were so scratchy after cleaning. I took a extra good switch from my former Zenith and started swapping parts one at a time to find out what was causing it. Turns out the slider isn't the cause, which is great so I don't need to risk losing the lubricant by washing them. The causes were the top housing and the switch plate contact. So I took all the insides out of them and am going to wash all the tops in soap + water, and then thoroughly clean the switch plates. They should be good again :thumb:
A similar thing should apply to the Blues too I just need to pay some more attention to other places since they are so dirty. Lol a lot of them were sticking they were so dirty.
Pics!
(http://i.imgur.com/M0rnolO.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/JNzEZkB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zFPAD0i.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2saYx2I.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pbdSFXK.jpg)
Also does anyone know why on the SKCM Blues the bottom says "FD" rather than the Alps logo?
(http://i.imgur.com/S9cwyn7.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 21:50:22
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 25 June 2016, 22:31:58
Does this look like the same profile?
(http://i.imgur.com/ivgULup.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 23:43:07
Those spherical japanese doubleshots look lovely, Mattr567. I think the molds are the same as same-era Canon typewriter caps. Maybe 1985–86ish?
Does this look like the same profile?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ivgULup.jpg)
Yea they do, holding some caps up to my screen they look like the same molds. Shame they didn't use them more often. Date on the controller of the Multistation's PCB is week 14 of 1984, or April 2-8th 1984. So i'd say '83-85, since 83 is when SKCL/SKCM was introduced and the multistations switched to normal dyesubs not too long after 1984.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 26 June 2016, 00:21:27
the most valued switches are Clicky SKCM Blue ALPS and Linear SKCL Green.I personally think skcm brown is more valuable and alot more rare than skcl green
The most popular, I'd say, are SKCM Blue and SKCL Green. They're generally what people are looking for. People are pretty intrigued by SKCM Brown though, too.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 26 June 2016, 00:24:04
Those spherical japanese doubleshots look lovely, Mattr567. I think the molds are the same as same-era Canon typewriter caps. Maybe 1985–86ish?
Does this look like the same profile?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ivgULup.jpg)
Are the spherical tops of the Canon caps sculpted with a significant dip, or are they flatter like SA profile caps? The caps of the Multistation practically hug your fingers, much like Topre Hi Pro caps. I couldn't tell from pictures of the Canon, but it didn't look to have the same kind of spherical sculpt. The bottom row is also convex on the Multistation as opposed to concave.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 26 June 2016, 00:57:58
Also does anyone know why on the SKCM Blues the bottom says "FD" rather than the Alps logo?
That appears to be the branding of Forward Electronics, which is pretty unusual, since I thought this was only seen on the SKBM/SKBL line of switches.
According to the DT wiki, they produced SKCM Whites for Alps as well so I guess this makes sense.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 26 June 2016, 01:11:08
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 01:14:24
Also does anyone know why on the SKCM Blues the bottom says "FD" rather than the Alps logo?
That appears to be the branding of Forward Electronics, which is pretty unusual, since I thought this was only seen on the SKBM/SKBL line of switches.
According to the DT wiki, they produced SKCM Whites for Alps as well so I guess this makes sense.
Huh, thats really weird considering these arent even late SKCM Blues, they don't have any top side Alps branding and they have grey plates rather than late long white ones :confused: Maybe they were just some extra shells they had laying around.
Those Multistation caps are gorgeous, but I know there's no way to get anything resembling an ANSI layout out of them
Oh trust me, there will be a 60% coming out of this ;)
Post by: emdude on Sun, 26 June 2016, 01:19:12
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 01:28:47
Yeah, the DT wiki says that Forward Electronics-made SKCM Whites were likely sourced as overflow capacity or for cost reduction so that may be the case here.
So in your mind there wouldn't a quality difference? They just used random shells since they were over capacity? I don't think Foward would make SKCM Blues (or at least at a lower quality) considering it was still their original switch and quality was of still upmost importance. Looking at the PCB and controller the board was made sometime in 1987..
Post by: emdude on Sun, 26 June 2016, 01:32:47
EDIT: A bit more info, starting at this post: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68319.msg1628396#msg1628396
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 01:51:23
- Blue Alps were actually in production later than we previously thought.
- Forward was helping Alps produce them when Alps was over capacity, which would be additional to Alps' other factories.
- Forward produced simplified versions of Blue Alps, which would be SKBM Blue.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 26 June 2016, 02:07:06
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 02:24:13
I'm quite surprised to see that Forward made SKCM Blues at all. It's pretty widely believed that White Alps took the place of Blue Alps but to see that Forward also made some could imply that:
- Blue Alps were actually in production later than we previously thought.
- Forward was helping Alps produce them when Alps was over capacity, which would be additional to Alps' other factories.
- Forward produced simplified versions of Blue Alps, which would be SKBM Blue.
What is the SKCM Blue timeline exactly? 1987 seems to be well within it.
Just took apart a Alps and FD specimen and they are exactly the same inside. So I wonder if Alps made parts and gave them to Foward and said "build this" since they couldn't make them fast enough. As Matias said in the thread em linked moving tooling between countries is very expensive.
Wow, the possibility of there being SKBM Blues is really something to think about, but I would be quite surprised if there were such a thing, given the number of years between the SKCM Blue and SKBM/SKCM switch production! :eek:
Agreed, SKBM Blue is unlikely. Foward was likely a overflow company originally and when Alps got tired of making switches they handed total production over to Foward since they had the means to given previous experience.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 02:57:40
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 26 June 2016, 07:44:15
Are the spherical tops of the Canon caps sculpted with a significant dip, or are they flatter like SA profile caps? The caps of the Multistation practically hug your fingers, much like Topre Hi Pro caps. I couldn't tell from pictures of the Canon, but it didn't look to have the same kind of spherical sculpt. The bottom row is also convex on the Multistation as opposed to concave.They are almost certainly the same top scoop as the spherical Multistation keycaps; both seem to be substantially more scooped than the Alps “phoneboard” caps, or the various nearly flat spherical-ish and uniform profile keycaps used with SKFL boards. But not as scooped as some other keycaps I’ve seen.
The bottom row on the relevant Canon typewriters only has a spacebar plus 1 or 2 1u keys, which use the home row profile. The 1u keys are concave.
You can see the profile of the Canon typewriter caps pretty well in this picture:
(http://i.imgur.com/puH1Ge4.jpg)
Alps phoneboard pic, for comparison, via https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81879.0
(http://i.imgur.com/b0Fs595.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 26 June 2016, 10:28:05
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cl9sUmCRC_0/maxresdefault.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 26 June 2016, 10:32:52
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 26 June 2016, 10:36:53
I have a Kailh red switch, a loose one, but I don't have a board so I don't know too much about them. What's so bad about them?They feel super scratchy , there is a quite audible "sandy" noise if you slowly press the key. This is after 4+ months of heavy daily usage. Like a combination of MX Red and MX Black. Their one saving grace is that their weighting isn't bad, its right between MX Reds and MX Blacks at 50g.
I have heard that some peoples Kailhs are smoother than their MX so it could just be I got a bad batch.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 12:09:14
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sun, 26 June 2016, 14:12:02
Am i crazy, or am i seeing that you guys have found a constant source of Green and Blue alps?
Also, does anyone know a good source of 5140s? I could use two :) At least 1 set of caps and some extra brown switches.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 26 June 2016, 15:12:14
I'd love to try a good clean Blue ALPS board at some point. I've only tried White ALPS that were dirty and they felt like crap.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 26 June 2016, 16:38:50
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 June 2016, 10:06:45
As for what I've been up to, I got an SMK Blue Alps-mount board yesterday and I'm looking forward to playing with that. I might try and design my own plate to make a 60% keyboard with them just for fun. I also have a Blue Alps board coming in today (DC-2014) and I'm going to start harvesting switches from it so I can build my alps64 board (I really hope my plate design works, it is still en route from Greece but it should be here this week. If it doesn't work I'm going to be a bit peeved with myself).
In a stroke of pure luck, I found a SIIG Minitouch in my dad's pile of stuff. I've been wanting one of these for a while so I got lucky here. Unfortunately, it isn't one with the "cool" switches because it has white alps clones for the alphas/numbers and clicky, yellow-slider alps clones for the function-key row. They seem to be pretty decent switches, although some of them have worn rather poorly. I'll post some pictures later if people want 'em. I might pull a couple of them out so we can look at the bottom of the switch housings, too.
All in all, I am committing to un-hack my wallet so I'm going to reduce my spending going forward. I tend to get obsessed with a hobby over a summer and go all out but I've already spent quite a bit on this one sooooo it's time for me to cut back.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 27 June 2016, 11:02:19
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 June 2016, 11:26:53
Unless you just want to build your own, BlueNalgene is working on a combination SMK/Alps keyboard that will come in full size and TKL, plus you can use Alps keycaps from an AEK or similar.
Is that the Rosa (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81608.0)? I am not married to the idea of building my own, I just thought it could be a fun thing to do. Guess that would be a helluva' a lot easier so I'd probably be in for an Infinity-esque Rosa PCB + Plate... I'll have to keep an eye on that.
Post by: emdude on Mon, 27 June 2016, 12:52:40
As for what I've been up to, I got an SMK Blue Alps-mount board yesterday and I'm looking forward to playing with that. I might try and design my own plate to make a 60% keyboard with them just for fun.
Ooh, I'm very interested in seeing where you take this; guessing you plan to hand-wire this!
All in all, I am committing to un-hack my wallet so I'm going to reduce my spending going forward. I tend to get obsessed with a hobby over a summer and go all out but I've already spent quite a bit on this one sooooo it's time for me to cut back.
Haha, I feel the same way, I've only been in this hobby for a couple of months and already I've spent way way more than I probably should have. :))
Once I finish up my current Alps builds, that will probably be it for me for a long while..
(Although I said the same thing before I got into Alps :-X)
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 June 2016, 13:03:08
Ooh, I'm very interested in seeing where you take this; guessing you plan to hand-wire this!
That's what I was planning on doing, haha. That being said, I don't even know if I like the switches yet.
Haha, I feel the same way, I've only been in this hobby for a couple of months and already I've spent way way more than I probably should have. :))
Once I finish up my current Alps builds, that will probably be it for me for a long while..
(Although I said the same thing before I got into Alps :-X)
Well I've already had my Cherry phase and I'm on the tail-end of my Alps phase with a Topre board on the way so the only thing that's left is Buckling Springs. Aside from parts (keycaps, switches, plates, etc), I might get that i-Rocks Fun board just so I have a convenient way to put Artisans on Alps boards. Speaking of which, I guess I could get really into Artisans but I don't foresee that being a problem; I am more interested in usefulness/feels than aesthetics.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 27 June 2016, 17:08:01
I'm quite surprised to see that Forward made SKCM Blues at all. It's pretty widely believed that White Alps took the place of Blue Alps but to see that Forward also made some could imply that:
- Blue Alps were actually in production later than we previously thought.
- Forward was helping Alps produce them when Alps was over capacity, which would be additional to Alps' other factories.
- Forward produced simplified versions of Blue Alps, which would be SKBM Blue.
Well, I can tell you that I've had two keyboards made in late 1989, my DC-3014 and KB101A, that have SKCM Blues. I haven't desoldered any switches to check if they have an FD branding on them, but I have seen a lot of variation on SKCM Blues in terms of spring color (goldish, stainless, dull) and switch plate color (grey, white), so I'm personally not all that surprised to see this, though it is nonetheless interesting.
Those Multistation caps are gorgeous, but I know there's no way to get anything resembling an ANSI layout out of them
You could make a pretty nice HHKB style set-up with a little modding, or you could stem swap some SA caps to fill out the mods to have a similar-ish profile.
They are almost certainly the same top scoop as the spherical Multistation keycaps; both seem to be substantially more scooped than the Alps “phoneboard” caps, or the various nearly flat spherical-ish and uniform profile keycaps used with SKFL boards. But not as scooped as some other keycaps I’ve seen.
The bottom row on the relevant Canon typewriters only has a spacebar plus 1 or 2 1u keys, which use the home row profile. The 1u keys are concave.
You can see the profile of the Canon typewriter caps pretty well in this picture:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/puH1Ge4.jpg)
Alps phoneboard pic, for comparison, via https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81879.0Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/b0Fs595.jpg)
Ahh yeah, I see what you mean. They certainly look to have a nice dip in the scoops. Where are the rest of those caps sourced from for your ergo build? Very nice. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 27 June 2016, 22:13:53
It's awesome you got your stuff in, @Mattr. I'm a little bit worried about this whole Forward Electronics thing but I think it should be alright.I mean the insides are exactly the same so I don't think they are going to feel any worse than Alps made ones. When I clean them if they feel any worse than the couple Alps ones I have laying around thats likely due to condition, they are absolutely disgusting. Today I did finish restoring and desoldering the SKCL Green's, squeaky clean! :D Now onto the SKCM Blues.
(http://i.imgur.com/X2JLqEw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/26jX7uF.jpg)
Plan is to cut the original Multistation plate and make a 60%. Dark wood case, SKCM Blues and handwire + teensy using TMK. Like what Yoe did with a M0118. The plate will be painted blue too :)Those Multistation caps are gorgeous, but I know there's no way to get anything resembling an ANSI layout out of themYou could make a pretty nice HHKB style set-up with a little modding, or you could stem swap some SA caps to fill out the mods to have a similar-ish profile.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 June 2016, 22:28:16
I mean the insides are exactly the same so I don't think they are going to feel any worse than Alps made ones. When I clean them if they feel any worse than the couple Alps ones I have laying around thats likely due to condition, they are absolutely disgusting. Today I did finish restoring and desoldering the SKCL Green's, squeaky clean! :D Now onto the SKCM Blues.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/X2JLqEw.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/26jX7uF.jpg)
Fair enough, and ick, dirty alps are the worst.
Your greens look lovely, though. Those sliders are so vivid, it's awesome. For comparison, here are some of the ones I pulled from an old Wyse board (I still have no idea what I'm going to do with them):
(http://i.imgur.com/hdVtQ7G.png)
(Sorry about the poor image quality)
Just out of curiousity, how pingy are those SKCL greens now that you've cleaned 'em? Even after cleaning all of mine are pingy, I'll probably have to lube the springs at some point or another...
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 27 June 2016, 22:46:27
Fair enough, and ick, dirty alps are the worst.
Your greens look lovely, though. Those sliders are so vivid, it's awesome. For comparison, here are some of the ones I pulled from an old Wyse board (I still have no idea what I'm going to do with them):Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hdVtQ7G.png)
(Sorry about the poor image quality)
Just out of curiousity, how pingy are those SKCL greens now that you've cleaned 'em? Even after cleaning all of mine are pingy, I'll probably have to lube the springs at some point or another...
SKCL Greens are just pingy, its their nature. It was hard to tell ping beforehand since a lot of them would get stuck in the down position. Never seen a Alps switch so dirty it stops working XD The ones that did work were effectively dampened by the dust so they got more pingy after cleaning I guess.
The SKCM Blues are in even worse condition but they will turn out well also. Just takes a lot of elbow grease.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 27 June 2016, 22:49:49
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 28 June 2016, 00:28:28
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 28 June 2016, 00:58:02
Would be great to measure the detailed contribution of each component though.
Post by: y11971alex on Tue, 28 June 2016, 02:09:25
Post by: chyros on Tue, 28 June 2016, 03:19:14
Does the rough feeling of the later Black ALPS just have to do with the tactile leaf or are there other factors at play?I suspect the main factor is the tactile leaf tbh. Linear-modded black Alps are super smooth, as good as any Greens.
Post by: henz on Tue, 28 June 2016, 03:38:19
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 28 June 2016, 08:01:50
I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along:
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 28 June 2016, 08:10:44
SKCL Greens are just pingy, its their nature. It was hard to tell ping beforehand since a lot of them would get stuck in the down position. Never seen a Alps switch so dirty it stops working XD The ones that did work were effectively dampened by the dust so they got more pingy after cleaning I guess.
Ah, duly noted. I guess I just never realized that's how they're "supposed" to sound. Unfortunately, I have seen Alps switches in that condition before. I have a bag of orange switches in a similarly disgusting condition.
Have any of you discovered the right lube for Alps after you clean and refurbish them?
I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along
I am curious about this as well, I bought some DuPont and I am planning on experimenting with it. It seems like not many people lube Alps switches but when you're doing restoration work on them you kind of have to, unfortunately (as I discovered with the aforementioned orange alps).
Post by: E3E on Tue, 28 June 2016, 08:14:46
I have about 100 brand new green switches that I desoldered. I originally put it in my brand new NeXT with Portuguese caps but for whatever reason the controller stopped working after swapping switches, so now I guess I might wait for BlueNalgene's GB or maybe put them in a different board. I've also had some really bad Alps clones, where there were 5-6 that would get stuck in the down position and not pop back up (they were clicky switches too). I have them in a bag, maybe I should see how bad they are internally.
Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?
Also, I think I found my favorite cap combination for my FMJ Alps Eagle:
(http://puu.sh/pIq3i/4ea2249b00.JPG)
(http://puu.sh/pIpdJ/effa8b32fc.JPG)
Completely unshined and bold-faced -black- legend (I've seen blueish black and more faint legends on another set) SGI caps with Alpine Winter mods. Due to the Cherry stabilization, I've got to use caps with compatible stab mounts. I do have an idea for creating PCB-mount Alps stabs, but I haven't tried it yet since I don't really have the opportunity for it.
Next time I swap out all the switches on one of my Eagles, I'll try that idea. :)
But yeah, I think this fits the board better than the AT101 caps have:
(http://puu.sh/pou5a/6f3ae349db.JPG)
Mattr, are the SKCL Greens actually that vivid chartreuse color or is that just a color inaccuracy with your camera?
Post by: Magna224 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 09:16:35
Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?
There's a NeXT that uses ADB? I thought that they were some other protocol?
Post by: E3E on Tue, 28 June 2016, 11:03:23
Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?
There's a NeXT that uses ADB? I thought that they were some other protocol?
Nevermind, I think the next generation of NeXT boards (that seem to also be rubber domes) were ADB. :confused:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KANJI-NeXT-ADB-Keyboard-RARE-NeXT-Turbo-Cube-Nextstation-Mono-Turbo-Color-NEW-/272279866799?hash=item3f65250daf:g:NjsAAOSwYGFUsQZF
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NjsAAOSwYGFUsQZF/s-l1600.jpg)
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 13:58:43
Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?
There's a NeXT that uses ADB? I thought that they were some other protocol?
I bought Hasu's prebuilt NeXT converter. The converter was still working but the keyboard wasn't so I'm guessing the controller got messed up in some way.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 17:48:29
What lubes would be recommended?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 28 June 2016, 17:57:50
What lubes would be recommended?
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
I have been asking that question both here and on DT for years.
Probably the reason people are reluctant to speak out is because while almost any lubricant feels great initially, the long term effects might not show up for years.
My 2 personal bugbears are dust sticking to wet lubricants, and vehicles or solvents deteriorating plastic in the long-term.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 28 June 2016, 18:09:54
What lubes would be recommended?
Spit.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 28 June 2016, 18:37:28
What lubes would be recommended?
Spit.while almost any lubricant feels great initially, the long term effects might not show up for years.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 22:10:31
Honestly they can be a pretty standard layout if you try.
(http://i.imgur.com/KdpHPW5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/etTucQq.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 22:24:34
Post by: Purp on Tue, 28 June 2016, 22:33:55
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 28 June 2016, 22:35:38
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 22:40:12
Test driving the Multistation caps on my SGI Granite. So far liking them a lot! Very interesting to type on these. Can't wait to have them in a 60% w/ SKCM Blue. Right now on SKCM Orange they still feel great. Scopped homing keys > Line or dots.
Honestly they can be a pretty standard layout if you try.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KdpHPW5.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/etTucQq.jpg)
this makes me wet.
Here you go:
(http://i.imgur.com/lkmbyd5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WymRQTU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FuRuvH6.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 22:46:37
I wonder how those multistation keycaps look when retrobrited.
Same. May or not do it. Think I will though.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 28 June 2016, 23:21:06
(http://i.imgur.com/VS0y83P.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/X7WzZ7q.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/A6LEFm0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/E7j1ntj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Tv0htoE.jpg)
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 29 June 2016, 23:04:21
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 29 June 2016, 23:29:57
I got in my SKCM Blue boards today, the good news is that all of my switches are genuine, Alps-branded switches! The bad news is that none of them feel "excellent." While none of them feel particularly awful, when compared to well-preserved Blue Alps the difference is incredible. I isolated a bunch of them that I thought felt good to great; however, as soon as I compared them to my Leading Edge board, I realized even the ones that felt "good" were still scratchy as heck. I have done a bit of testing and sadly, most seem to have sliders-related roughness which might be "uncurable." In addition, the colors of the sliders have faded rather noticeably, with some bordering on an off-white and bluish color. I am going to continue experimenting with these and I'll post the results. I have some DuPont lube coming in and while I wouldn't want to do the injustice of ruining these switches with lube, it may have to be done for keyboard science.
They look good compared to mine lol
(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)
Cleaning will do wonders for them. Mine feel so much better after cleaning. They just need a bit of lube on the sliders to make them as good as some mint ones I have laying around. Very curious about your results about the lube. Mine need them one way or another.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 29 June 2016, 23:44:23
They look good compared to mine lolShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)
That was pretty much just a picture of the "good" ones I selected, the others look like yours.
So I did some experimenting to find out why the greens were so scratchy after cleaning. I took a extra good switch from my former Zenith and started swapping parts one at a time to find out what was causing it. Turns out the slider isn't the cause, which is great so I don't need to risk losing the lubricant by washing them. The causes were the top housing and the switch plate contact. So I took all the insides out of them and am going to wash all the tops in soap + water, and then thoroughly clean the switch plates. They should be good again :thumb:
Cleaning will do wonders for them. Mine feel so much better after cleaning. They just need a bit of lube on the sliders to make them as good as some mint ones I have laying around. Very curious about your results about the lube. Mine need them one way or another.
You've probably already posted about this somewhere but I'm just asking again because I am lazy, did you end up cleaning the sliders or not? Also, potentially stupid question but do you have any tips about drying parts after you've cleaned them? I used my ultrasonic cleaner to clean some Orange Alps switches the other day and while it did a good job of cleaning most of the dust off, after the parts dried there were still little water/drying marks on them (most noticeably on the switch plates). I used distilled water so it is not like they are from a cleaning solution, it's just how the water dried. In any case, I'll definitely post back with lubing results when I get there.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 30 June 2016, 00:15:29
They look good compared to mine lolShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)
That was pretty much just a picture of the "good" ones I selected, the others look like yours.So I did some experimenting to find out why the greens were so scratchy after cleaning. I took a extra good switch from my former Zenith and started swapping parts one at a time to find out what was causing it. Turns out the slider isn't the cause, which is great so I don't need to risk losing the lubricant by washing them. The causes were the top housing and the switch plate contact. So I took all the insides out of them and am going to wash all the tops in soap + water, and then thoroughly clean the switch plates. They should be good again :thumb:Cleaning will do wonders for them. Mine feel so much better after cleaning. They just need a bit of lube on the sliders to make them as good as some mint ones I have laying around. Very curious about your results about the lube. Mine need them one way or another.
You've probably already posted about this somewhere but I'm just asking again because I am lazy, did you end up cleaning the sliders or not? Also, potentially stupid question but do you have any tips about drying parts after you've cleaned them? I used my ultrasonic cleaner to clean some Orange Alps switches the other day and while it did a good job of cleaning most of the dust off, after the parts dried there were still little water/drying marks on them (most noticeably on the switch plates). I used distilled water so it is not like they are from a cleaning solution, it's just how the water dried. In any case, I'll definitely post back with lubing results when I get there.
The green sliders were perfect it was the switch tops causing the friction there. The SKCM Blues is definitely the slider. I bet if I combined the SKCM Blues with the green sliders they would make for some amazing switches. I cleaned the sides of the sliders w/ rubbing alcohol but didnt wash the whole thing to preserve what lube it had left. I had to wash both top and bottom housings and also clean the switch plate w/ rubbing alcohol.
Even so the blue sliders still need lube, not much but a bit. I am thinking of some low viscosity lube that wont gum up and barley apply it to the sliders with a small paint brush or something. Kinda like what the factory did.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 30 June 2016, 03:32:11
In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches :) .
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 30 June 2016, 07:27:09
In addition, the colors of the sliders have faded rather noticeably, with some bordering on an off-white and bluish color.
I wonder whether the color was not always inconsistent. Here is a Leading Edge 2014 (in decent condition) when I first opened it up:
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 30 June 2016, 08:04:00
I refrained from buying any of these boards because I was confident there was absolutely no turning back from this amount of dust and dirt. I have a single blue Alps switch, and while it looks very clean, the difference between it and my KB-101A is night and day. I don't know why.I am doubtful as well but these boards were kind of an "eh, what the heck" kind of purchase for me. I figured I might as well get them to play around with them and see if I could discover anything interesting in the process.
In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches :) .
I wonder whether the color was not always inconsistent. Here is a Leading Edge 2014 (in decent condition) when I first opened it up:
Hmmm, that could be the case; when I pull all of the keycaps off of my DC2014 I'll have to take a pic and do a comparison. The color variation in those sliders appears to be very similar to the color variation exhibited by these boards.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 30 June 2016, 08:52:42
I wonder though if it's time to get people at least trying out Orange SKCM, Salmon SKCM, and Dampened Cream SKCM. I really like Orange and Dampened Cream...and Click-modded Orange are nice. And they're a bit easier to find if you still want that vintage vibe. Diversity is always nice.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 30 June 2016, 09:16:54
I refrained from buying any of these boards because I was confident there was absolutely no turning back from this amount of dust and dirt. I have a single blue Alps switch, and while it looks very clean, the difference between it and my KB-101A is night and day. I don't know why.
In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches :) .
I'd never buy boards so dirty in hopes of using their switches in a project, haha. I once saw a board from TaoBao which showed a picture of the switch housing and it was caked with dust on every wall of the housing. No coming back from that unless you just take the major components of the switch type and swap them into better condition housings, say from an SKCM Orange board.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 30 June 2016, 09:54:40
I wonder though if it's time to get people at least trying out Orange SKCM, Salmon SKCM, and Dampened Cream SKCM. I really like Orange and Dampened Cream...and Click-modded Orange are nice. And they're a bit easier to find if you still want that vintage vibe. Diversity is always nice.
Considering the skyrocketing prices of SKCM Blues we might be nearing such a point; however, I wouldn't say we're quite there, yet. That being said, I have been extensively experimenting with "diverse" switches lately. Linearised Blacks, Linearised Damped Creams, Click-modded Greens, Click-modded Oranges, Click-modded Damped Creams, Click-modded Salmons. Out of those, the Click-modded greens feel the best (they're so pingy, though) and the damped creams feel "squishy," almost like the spring doesn't bring the cap back up as quickly as it needs to. The others are OK, Click-modded oranges and salmons feeling pretty comparable and inferior to their orange counterparts; they are almost like Ambers. Nothing really competes with the feeling of my mint Blues, though, which is rather disappointing. I am still holding out hope that some TLC will restore these Taobao switches to such levels of greatness :thumb:
Post by: E3E on Thu, 30 June 2016, 10:01:13
Considering the skyrocketing prices of SKCM Blues we might be nearing such a point; however, I wouldn't say we're quite there, yet. That being said, I have been extensively experimenting with "diverse" switches lately. Linearised Blacks, Linearised Damped Creams, Click-modded Greens, Click-modded Oranges, Click-modded Damped Creams, Click-modded Salmons. Out of those, the Click-modded greens feel the best (they're so pingy, though) and the damped creams feel "squishy," almost like the spring doesn't bring the cap back up as quickly as it needs to. The others are OK, Click-modded oranges and salmons feeling pretty comparable and inferior to their orange counterparts; they are almost like Ambers. Nothing really competes with the feeling of my mint Blues, though, which is rather disappointing. I am still holding out hope that some TLC will restore these Taobao switches to such levels of greatness :thumb:
Oh, Wingpad, you must've missed the peak of the Alps hype. It's already tanked quite a bit since then, but boards were regularly going for over $200 with peaks at $400 or so. We're not seeing those prices at the moment, but I'm sure something in the community will flare up Alps prices again. Maybe SPRiT's Alps spring release.
I don't see that really doing much to drive prices up for blues alone, but it might bring more attention to Alps as a whole. BlueNalgene's Alps TKL is likely going to bring more heat onto blue Alps again though, no doubt. People are also going to need switch opening tools as well.
Ahh the economy that revolves around this community. :P
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 30 June 2016, 11:28:33
Post by: emdude on Thu, 30 June 2016, 11:55:28
I refrained from buying any of these boards because I was confident there was absolutely no turning back from this amount of dust and dirt. I have a single blue Alps switch, and while it looks very clean, the difference between it and my KB-101A is night and day. I don't know why.
In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches :) .
Yes, this is by far the biggest caveat of Alps, and perhaps also that there is no modern source of SKCM/SKCL switches if you need replacement switches or parts. And so the butchering of boards must continue.. :-\
@Mattr, Wingpad, you guys are doing great work, pleases do experiment with dry lubricant and whatnot; so far I have only heard of mixed results with using lubricant on Alps switches, but anything to advance our knowledge is helpful.
Post by: dante on Thu, 30 June 2016, 12:33:24
Post by: jbondeson on Thu, 30 June 2016, 12:39:22
Has anyone ever posed the question that if Zeal can get Gateron to make Zealios - maybe Matias could make Blue Alps? I'm sure it's not a fair comparison.
Unfortunately no one wants to touch complex alps with a 10' pole due to the number of pieces in the switch plate (6 i believe).
Post by: emdude on Thu, 30 June 2016, 12:40:12
The first step to replicating the SKCM/SKCL series would be to recreate the complicated switchplate, which would be a huge, huge hurdle in and of itself..
Post by: dante on Thu, 30 June 2016, 12:40:28
Has anyone ever posed the question that if Zeal can get Gateron to make Zealios - maybe Matias could make Blue Alps? I'm sure it's not a fair comparison.
Unfortunately no one wants to touch complex alps with a 10' pole due to the number of pieces in the switch plate (6 i believe).
What about making the pieces separately and let the individual assemble the switch themselves? Granted it's probably a tremendous pain in the ass but would give access to brand new Blue Alps...
Post by: emdude on Thu, 30 June 2016, 12:52:25
IIRC, all of these things were different even from the switch that superseded it, SKCM White. I personally would not care about some variation in a new SKCM/SKCL line as long as the switchplate and lubricant were reasonably reproduced.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 30 June 2016, 12:53:52
The Leading Edge that I just sold has wildly inconsistent coloring. Some of them are closer to a teal color while others are closer to a navy color.
My Acer KB101A has that as well. Some really pale sliders and some vivid ones and some in between. My Focus FK-555 and FAME TH-5539 both have very vivid sliders though. When SKCM Blue switches are nice and vivid like that, they're quite pretty. <3
There are some colors I've never seen faded like either brown slider color (SKCL and SKCM are the same shade), and SKCL Green.
If I were to rate the switch sliders in terms of the prettiest looking ones. It'd be SKCM Green (pine), vivid SKCM Blue, and then I think SKCM Orange. Beyond that, it's a toss-up. :P Maybe SKCM Amber would be next.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 30 June 2016, 13:06:01
Post by: emdude on Thu, 30 June 2016, 13:11:26
Post by: jbondeson on Thu, 30 June 2016, 13:12:00
After investing what was necessary (molds, stamps, etc.) to revive SKC[M\L] switches the price per switch would make Zealios look like a bargain. :))
Post by: emdude on Thu, 30 June 2016, 13:15:58
Post by: E3E on Thu, 30 June 2016, 13:19:40
The reason for starting with simplified was almost certainly because the tooling already existed and could be utilized.
After investing what was necessary (molds, stamps, etc.) to revive SKC[M\L] switches the price per switch would make Zealios look like a bargain. :))
I also agree that a full blown SKCM/L reproduction would be very unlikely. You can easily restore old switches with switch plates from other less desirable or even incompatible switches (SKCL Compact, SKCC) if you're so inclined. I have quite a bit of spare switch plates thanks to the SCKL Compacts I have.
Top housings can easily be replaced by using any pine top housing, SKCM White, SKCM Salmon, SKCM Orange, are all good choices. Finding replacements for SKCL tops would be more difficult since they're so specific and I can't say that any SKCL switch is worth scrapping for another, except maybe to replace housings on SKCL Brown or Cream.
If more people found that Alps switches are far superior to Cherries, then the cost of new tooling could be recouped and they would become the new king of mechanical keyboards (if only)! :rolleyes: :p :'(
I don't think this is ever going to happen because the market is already heavily geared towards Cherry and Cherry compatible clones. It'd take something I couldn't even imagine to bring Alps back to life. Matias is the only one out there that's really hanging onto the switch design at all.
Plus, it's a very subjective thing. Not everyone thinks Alps is better than Cherry.
I will say that most people here are far more knowledgeable on Cherry MX related topics than they are on Alps. The amount of misinformation I've seen spread in the past has been ridiculous considering how many people fact check things with Cherry MX.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 30 June 2016, 13:33:18
Well, I think this discussion really highlights the relative inaccessibility of Alps, with the rarity of the better switches, their vulnerability to dust, the difficulty of sourcing things like key caps, etc. The dominance of Cherry is very understandable, if a bit unfortunate.
Some days I am half tempted to give up on Alps completely, but they are just so darn wonderful; nothing like them today, in my opinion. I don't mean any disrespect to Matias either, what he is doing is very commendable.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 30 June 2016, 15:07:09
Mattr it's awesome seeing you clean up the switches because like chyros, the prospect of trying to get boards from TaoBao AND cleaning these switches up is insane to me lol. Glad you guys have been able to scoop so much SKCM/SKCL goodness.
I wonder though if it's time to get people at least trying out Orange SKCM, Salmon SKCM, and Dampened Cream SKCM. I really like Orange and Dampened Cream...and Click-modded Orange are nice. And they're a bit easier to find if you still want that vintage vibe. Diversity is always nice.
Lol it is a lot of work but i'm saving so much money instead of just paying the SKCM Blue price. Here is the current state of my SKCM Blues. I had to go the extra mile by removing all the switch plates and soaking/washing the case tops and bottoms. Now all the other parts are waiting until I get some lube. With the few I put together fully cleaned w/ the parched sliders they don't feel that horrible imo. Its lacking that snappy feel somewhat but comparable to SKCM White for sure. A light lube will make them perfectly snappy and smooth :D
(http://i.imgur.com/rANljiw.jpg)
They will get a chance soon to try those plus more w/ my switch tester. Have a lot of Alps and others as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/tLVNXld.jpg)
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 30 June 2016, 15:48:16
Post by: Dokyun on Thu, 30 June 2016, 21:23:47
I don't think this is ever going to happen because the market is already heavily geared towards Cherry and Cherry compatible clones.
Yeah, basically this. I feel like even a conceited effort by the community to do a short run of faithful SKCM clones would run into the issue of justifying the cost vs interest. Nothing's going to turn back Cherry being in the right place at the right time to take advantage of the exploding interest in mechanical keyboards.
As it stands, the subjective "feel" of a switch is not much of a marketable asset. OEMs are generally only interested in something that's not Cherry or a Cherry clone if there's some sort of numbers game they can play. True, these aren't Cherry switches, but they last 10 TRILLION keystrokes!!!!! And even then they've probably got Cherry comparable stems. If anyone major was ever going to make a run with say, Matias switches, it would've happened already.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 30 June 2016, 21:35:54
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 30 June 2016, 21:46:27
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 30 June 2016, 21:58:49
Post by: emdude on Thu, 30 June 2016, 22:10:45
Post by: need on Fri, 01 July 2016, 00:45:34
Post by: emdude on Fri, 01 July 2016, 01:09:35
I hope they will fit into existing Alps PCBs, the switches appear to have two extra pins that seem to be for PCB mounting? I hope they are removable if that's the case.
If they really end up being great, I will definitely throw my money in for some switches. We'll see.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 01 July 2016, 03:49:30
Were ALPS boards generally cheaper or more expensive when they were being sold?
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 01 July 2016, 03:58:47
Post by: chyros on Fri, 01 July 2016, 04:03:54
how expensive were the original ALPS switches compared to Cherry at the time?Cheaper.
Were ALPS boards generally cheaper or more expensive when they were being sold?
1992:
G80-1000: $110
G80-3000: $105
Alps MDS-101: $85
Chicony 5181: $50
OmniKey 101: $89
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 01 July 2016, 04:10:43
For a better price comparison, I think you should in the ~1988 range. By early 90s lots of vendors were already cutting costs aggressively.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 01 July 2016, 04:53:45
Was Alps MDS-101 a bigfoot keyboard, or some crap flimsy thing?It's a wave board actually, so not a great comparison come to think of it.
For a better price comparison, I think you should in the ~1988 range. By early 90s lots of vendors were already cutting costs aggressively.
These are just what I found in a catalog. I don't have a 1988 catalog unfortunately xD .
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 01 July 2016, 05:31:51
Neato, are those prices adjusted or were those the prices at the time?how expensive were the original ALPS switches compared to Cherry at the time?Cheaper.
Were ALPS boards generally cheaper or more expensive when they were being sold?
1992:
G80-1000: $110
G80-3000: $105
Alps MDS-101: $85
Chicony 5181: $50
OmniKey 101: $89
Post by: zombimuncha on Fri, 01 July 2016, 05:56:18
Assume for a second that I have no earthly clue about 3D printing, or about complicated Alps switch plates (a safe assumption!) Is there enough precision in 3D printing yet to make the plastic bits of those switch plates? What about smoothness and durability? Do they matter in a switch plate? Is the slider the only moving non-metal part? If you use an existing Matias slider, and 3D print your own switch plate, and a switch top housing that it will fit in. Sounds like a fun project but I have no idea if any of it is even feasible.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 01 July 2016, 07:31:03
At the time. By today's values it would be ca. 1.7 times that.Neato, are those prices adjusted or were those the prices at the time?how expensive were the original ALPS switches compared to Cherry at the time?Cheaper.
Were ALPS boards generally cheaper or more expensive when they were being sold?
1992:
G80-1000: $110
G80-3000: $105
Alps MDS-101: $85
Chicony 5181: $50
OmniKey 101: $89
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 01 July 2016, 23:02:13
Quote from: Wingpad
The other day I got an Orange Alps keyboard like this one but yours is in far better condition, the plate from mine is so rusty and all the sliders have pretty severe wear marks on them. I was really hoping they'd be smoother than salmon/pink Alps but they're in such poor condition that the salmon/pink alps are actually smoother :p I would have to do a lot of work if I wanted to make them viable for a project.
I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along:
So I finally got around to revisiting the messed up Orange switches and testing the DuPont lubrication. Lubing the sliders, top housing, click plates and the switch plates of cleaned switches seems to yield the best results. The switches are much smoother and no longer feel as scratchy, some of these formerly-tactile switches are now quasi-clicky, though, simply because the click plates have been bent out of shape over time. Sometime over the weekend I will try cleaning a few of the dirty Taobao blues and I will report back on what happens when I lube them in a similar fashion.
Oh, Wingpad, you must've missed the peak of the Alps hype. It's already tanked quite a bit since then, but boards were regularly going for over $200 with peaks at $400 or so. We're not seeing those prices at the moment, but I'm sure something in the community will flare up Alps prices again. Maybe SPRiT's Alps spring release.
I guess Matias is busy finishing off his thick PBT caps, and his matching 60% keyboard, but once (if?) those hit the market I think we might see another resurgence in interest in Alps in general. And probably another peak-blue-alps scenario.
Dang, I was basing my statement on a board that recently sold for over $300 on eBay but I guess that's another matter entirely. I hope we don't hit another peak-blue-alps scenario anytime soon... I just finished building my first board with them today. I guess I really didn't realize the difference between blue alps and mx greens til' I did a side-by-side comparison. Goodness gracious, these things make my mx greens feel like children's toys and it's hilarious :p
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 02 July 2016, 00:06:57
some of these formerly-tactile switches are now quasi-clicky
Is the click happening on the up stroke? At my limited time doing reassembly of orange alps, I found that sometimes the switch would exhibit this kind of click, and if I reassembled it again (or five more times sometimes :)), everything would fall in place, and it would go back to being just tactile.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 02 July 2016, 00:35:36
I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along:
So I finally got around to revisiting the messed up Orange switches and testing the DuPont lubrication. Lubing the sliders, top housing, click plates and the switch plates of cleaned switches seems to yield the best results. The switches are much smoother and no longer feel as scratchy, some of these formerly-tactile switches are now quasi-clicky, though, simply because the click plates have been bent out of shape over time. Sometime over the weekend I will try cleaning a few of the dirty Taobao blues and I will report back on what happens when I lube them in a similar fashion.
Interesting. I was only planning to do the sliders like the factory. Too much lube might remove the click. Plus using that much could affect the switch more over time. What DuPont lube did you use?
Post by: chyros on Sat, 02 July 2016, 06:21:16
I guess I really didn't realize the difference between blue alps and mx greens til' I did a side-by-side comparison. Goodness gracious, these things make my mx greens feel like children's toys and it's hilarious :pHaha yeah the contrast it pretty stark xD . Welcome to the brotherhood! ;p
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 02 July 2016, 08:19:42
So I finally got around to revisiting the messed up Orange switches and testing the DuPont lubrication.
What DuPont lube did you use?
This thread fills up quickly. Are we still talking about the one I showed in #2118? I was going to squirt it in a little dish and paint it on.
Post by: dante on Sat, 02 July 2016, 08:24:09
Post by: mrbishop on Sat, 02 July 2016, 12:01:05
:cool:
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 02 July 2016, 12:38:41
Is the click happening on the up stroke? At my limited time doing reassembly of orange alps, I found that sometimes the switch would exhibit this kind of click, and if I reassembled it again (or five more times sometimes :)), everything would fall in place, and it would go back to being just tactile.Yeah, it's on the upstroke OK so I will look into this. Thanks for the advice!
Interesting. I was only planning to do the sliders like the factory. Too much lube might remove the click. Plus using that much could affect the switch more over time.I only hit the areas where the slider touches the various parts of the switch and lightly painted it on at that. My orange switches are still "clicky" (when they shouldn't be) so I would imagine that means that the Blues will remain clicky (like they should be) after lubing/cleaning. I am not sure of the long-term effects of this lube on the switch, it worries me a bit too but I will have to keep an eye on them. Letting them sit for a day has had positive results and they feel smoother already.
This thread fills up quickly. Are we still talking about the one I showed in #2118? I was going to squirt it in a little dish and paint it on.Yeah it was the lube you showed in #2118, that's what I did as well.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 02 July 2016, 12:44:00
I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along:
So I finally got around to revisiting the messed up Orange switches and testing the DuPont lubrication. Lubing the sliders, top housing, click plates and the switch plates of cleaned switches seems to yield the best results. The switches are much smoother and no longer feel as scratchy, some of these formerly-tactile switches are now quasi-clicky, though, simply because the click plates have been bent out of shape over time. Sometime over the weekend I will try cleaning a few of the dirty Taobao blues and I will report back on what happens when I lube them in a similar fashion.
Interesting. I was only planning to do the sliders like the factory. Too much lube might remove the click. Plus using that much could affect the switch more over time. What DuPont lube did you use?
I certainly wouldn't lube the leaves, or if so, maybe only the arc of the leaf that contacts the slider for tactility, and that's only if one would want reduced tactility. I'd just lube the slider tabs that are typically lubed by Alps and the top housing since as we've found, the top housing is very essential to the feel of an Alps switch, creating huge differences between pine and bamboo housings, and given the fact that a bamboo switch with a pine housing will feel exactly like its pine counterparts.
I wouldn't lube the contact leaf spring (but it wouldn't hurt, since the contacts are contained) or the leaves, myself. Maybe an SKCM Brown leaf to see if it'd lighten the resistance at all, but eh.
In general, I don't like lubing Alps if they're in good condition. Sure, if you're restoring them, by all means; f they're that bad, do all you can to bring them back up to snuff, but I wouldn't touch switches that are in good condition. I would, however, lube the return springs on pingy linear switches though. I don't like Alps spring ping very much for the most part, so I've done that for every linear build I've made. Blues ping as well, but it's much less noticeable.
One interesting effect I had happen when I was cleaning and restoring my Acer KB101A, was that the click leaves in the SKCM Blues became mute after using a bit of alcohol to clean the grime between the rows and columns on the plate. Switches weren't dirty at all, I should add.
The isopropanol must've seeped into the switches and caused that effect. However, once it evaporated, everything was all good. It was 99% so it didn't take too long nor have too much risk of corroding anything, I think.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 02 July 2016, 12:57:33
Do you think Matias ever reads a thread like this and says to himself ****!!! My plan was for everyone to abandon vintage and buy MY stuff. :D
Personally, I'd still recommend Matias switches as the no-drama alternative. There's no "Attempt to scavenge together sufficient switches and find a few broken or unfixable". There's no "layout which was great in 1988 but not today" issue if you buy a whole board.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 02 July 2016, 13:16:50
I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along:
So I finally got around to revisiting the messed up Orange switches and testing the DuPont lubrication. Lubing the sliders, top housing, click plates and the switch plates of cleaned switches seems to yield the best results. The switches are much smoother and no longer feel as scratchy, some of these formerly-tactile switches are now quasi-clicky, though, simply because the click plates have been bent out of shape over time. Sometime over the weekend I will try cleaning a few of the dirty Taobao blues and I will report back on what happens when I lube them in a similar fashion.
Interesting. I was only planning to do the sliders like the factory. Too much lube might remove the click. Plus using that much could affect the switch more over time. What DuPont lube did you use?
I certainly wouldn't lube the leaves, or if so, maybe only the arc of the leaf that contacts the slider for tactility, and that's only if one would want reduced tactility. I'd just lube the slider tabs that are typically lubed by Alps and the top housing since as we've found, the top housing is very essential to the feel of an Alps switch, creating huge differences between pine and bamboo housings, and given the fact that a bamboo switch with a pine housing will feel exactly like its pine counterparts.
I wouldn't lube the contact leaf spring (but it wouldn't hurt, since the contacts are contained) or the leaves, myself. Maybe an SKCM Brown leaf to see if it'd lighten the resistance at all, but eh.
In general, I don't like lubing Alps if they're in good condition. Sure, if you're restoring them, by all means; f they're that bad, do all you can to bring them back up to snuff, but I wouldn't touch switches that are in good condition. I would, however, lube the return springs on pingy linear switches though. I don't like Alps spring ping very much for the most part, so I've done that for every linear build I've made. Blues ping as well, but it's much less noticeable.
One interesting effect I had happen when I was cleaning and restoring my Acer KB101A, was that the click leaves in the SKCM Blues became mute after using a bit of alcohol to clean the grime between the rows and columns on the plate. Switches weren't dirty at all, I should add.
The isopropanol must've seeped into the switches and caused that effect. However, once it evaporated, everything was all good. It was 99% so it didn't take too long nor have too much risk of corroding anything, I think.
I'll do the top housing and the sliders then :thumb: That should make them good again. Need to do the top housings on my SKCL Greens too actually. Will use that Dupont lube.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 02 July 2016, 23:12:04
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 02 July 2016, 23:27:21
I certainly wouldn't lube the leaves, or if so, maybe only the arc of the leaf that contacts the slider for tactility, and that's only if one would want reduced tactility. I'd just lube the slider tabs that are typically lubed by Alps and the top housing since as we've found, the top housing is very essential to the feel of an Alps switch, creating huge differences between pine and bamboo housings, and given the fact that a bamboo switch with a pine housing will feel exactly like its pine counterparts.I don't think that I'll do it for my actual blue alps, I am considering these orange alps to be a "practice round" of sorts more than anything else. And, yeah, I only lubed where the arcs touch the slider. Noob question but what are you referring to as the slider tabs? I thought I knew but now I am a bit confused, haha.
I wouldn't lube the contact leaf spring (but it wouldn't hurt, since the contacts are contained) or the leaves, myself. Maybe an SKCM Brown leaf to see if it'd lighten the resistance at all, but eh.
Would swapping my NeXT w/ SKCM Blue be a good idea you think?I think it would certainly be an interesting idea, the layout of the NeXT boards would give you just about all of the modern keys you would want, albeit in strange places. Would you be keeping the stock PCB or hand wiring it?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 02 July 2016, 23:28:25
Would swapping my NeXT w/ SKCM Blue be a good idea you think?
If you get a NeXT converter, then definitely. Use the neat tactile creams for a custom build or sell them. :thumb:
Not only would it fit well with the board because of its doubleshots, but the switches would fit the all black aesthetic quite nicely too. :) The build of the case would also likely have some nice acoustics with SKCM Blues.
I don't think that I'll do it for my actual blue alps, I am considering these orange alps to be a "practice round" of sorts more than anything else. As for the bit about the pine/bamboo switches I really need to get my hands on a few to try them. Sounds like I am missing an awesome switch. And, yeah, all that I lubed were the arcs touching the slider. Noob question but what are you referring to as the slider tabs?
Oh, the little part on the slider where the square cut out is, on the bottom side--it's the part that meets the contact.
Here's the picture:
(http://i.imgur.com/i8WglQb.jpg)
On factory-lubed switches, you usually see two streaks on either side of that cut out. I'm thinking that's where the original lube was applied.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 00:17:20
Stock PCB + Hasu's converterWould swapping my NeXT w/ SKCM Blue be a good idea you think?I think it would certainly be an interesting idea, the layout of the NeXT boards would give you just about all of the modern keys you would want, albeit in strange places. Would you be keeping the stock PCB or hand wiring it?
Would swapping my NeXT w/ SKCM Blue be a good idea you think?
If you get a NeXT converter, then definitely. Use the neat tactile creams for a custom build or sell them. :thumb:
Not only would it fit well with the board because of its doubleshots, but the switches would fit the all black aesthetic quite nicely too. :) The build of the case would also likely have some nice acoustics with SKCM Blues.I don't think that I'll do it for my actual blue alps, I am considering these orange alps to be a "practice round" of sorts more than anything else. As for the bit about the pine/bamboo switches I really need to get my hands on a few to try them. Sounds like I am missing an awesome switch. And, yeah, all that I lubed were the arcs touching the slider. Noob question but what are you referring to as the slider tabs?
Oh, the little part on the slider where the square cut out is, on the bottom side--it's the part that meets the contact.
Here's the picture:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/i8WglQb.jpg)
On factory-lubed switches, you usually see two streaks on either side of that cut out. I'm thinking that's where the original lube was applied.
Cool, I will after I get a converter. I do like the appeal of a blacked out SKCM Blue board. Also I think i'll throw the sphericals onto the V60.
The SKCL Greens from the Mutistation have been lubed in the same fashion. The ones from my former Zenith were still lubed but missing the streaks.
(http://i.imgur.com/FS9feFX.jpg)
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 00:41:25
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 01:06:14
If you do swap your NeXT be careful since mine somehow stopped working after the fact.Oh yea I remember you said that earlier. That's really weird, maybe a fluke or a solder mistake. Will do :thumb:
Post by: henz on Sun, 03 July 2016, 07:23:06
LZ-FE with blue alps.
(http://i.imgur.com/vfQoWpI.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 03 July 2016, 10:29:59
Took a while, but here it is:
LZ-FE with blue alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQoWpI.jpg)
Interesting blue and yellow colors. Where'd you get the space bar from, henz?
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 03 July 2016, 10:35:17
Took a while, but here it is:
LZ-FE with blue alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQoWpI.jpg)
Interesting blue and yellow colors. Where'd you get the space bar from, henz?
You can make your own, let a spacebar sit in a tanning bed for a few hours.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 03 July 2016, 11:53:37
Took a while, but here it is:
LZ-FE with blue alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQoWpI.jpg)
Interesting blue and yellow colors. Where'd you get the space bar from, henz?
You can make your own, let a spacebar sit in a tanning bed for a few hours.
Hahaha, wow. I didn't even think of that! Henz, you incorporated yellowing into your color coordination? YOU SLY DOG though it probably wasn't exactly intentional
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 12:20:37
I imagine a lot of nice combinations could be done there :)
Post by: duhhey on Sun, 03 July 2016, 12:48:01
Took a while, but here it is:
LZ-FE with blue alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQoWpI.jpg)
Wow beautiful board!
Post by: henz on Sun, 03 July 2016, 13:13:30
Took a while, but here it is:
LZ-FE with blue alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQoWpI.jpg)
Interesting blue and yellow colors. Where'd you get the space bar from, henz?
You can make your own, let a spacebar sit in a tanning bed for a few hours.
Hahaha, wow. I didn't even think of that! Henz, you incorporated yellowing into your color coordination? YOU SLY DOG though it probably wasn't exactly intentional
I like yellowed stuff, dont know why people keep insisting on retrobrighting. Cant say it was intentional, that spacebar and caps were the only things that i own that would fit :) the spacebar is cool, but i wouldn't mind switching the caps lock.
There was a yellowed (browned?) M0116J on auction earlier today. http://page24.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q121728290#enlargeimg
I imagine a lot of nice combinations could be done there :)
I also have a similar one =)
(http://i.imgur.com/d1GtrdV.jpg)
Took a while, but here it is:
LZ-FE with blue alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQoWpI.jpg)
Wow beautiful board!
Thanks, had to run a gb to get it the way i wanted =)
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 19:29:37
https://world.taobao.com/item/529535754025.htm?fromSite=main (https://world.taobao.com/item/529535754025.htm?fromSite=main)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 03 July 2016, 19:33:52
SKCL Green are also incredibly common in Asia, they were pretty much the preferred switch type of most of East Asia's Alps boards.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 03 July 2016, 19:45:09
We got "stuck" with the Model M's xD
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 19:53:50
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 03 July 2016, 20:29:21
o.O reen Alps in a Sun layout with some gorgeous Futura cap lettering. I wonder what it originally was-- there weren't that many aftermarket Sun boards.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 20:42:03
Post by: E3E on Sun, 03 July 2016, 21:14:36
https://world.taobao.com/item/520706952249.htm?spm=a312a.7728556.2015080705.13.ZK7dtJ&id=520706952249&scm=1007.12006.12548.i37835460918&pvid=cfd1824e-112f-42cf-a444-a3eb42a06a1a
o.O reen Alps in a Sun layout with some gorgeous Futura cap lettering. I wonder what it originally was-- there weren't that many aftermarket Sun boards.
That's an amazing layout, wow! Haha. I really like it; I wonder if this one is functional, given its state. Definitely a cool board for someone to grab. :D
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 21:44:40
Post by: E3E on Sun, 03 July 2016, 22:34:14
(http://puu.sh/pPtTk/2a5f61c2c9.JPG)
My heavyweight Alps TKL with its tenkey Alps companion. Blue Alps + Brown Linear Alps for indicators. Hot swap modded. The Lightpad has a carbon fiber plate. Dyed Dell AT101 PBT key caps.
(http://i.imgur.com/y68ZZnm.jpg)
The Retro-Modern: My NCR with a Leeku 3000 PCB with Alps compatibility. Using a modified Acer 6011 plate for mounting the switches. Brown Linear Alps. Full backlighting. FAME Cherry-profile Alps caps.
(http://i.imgur.com/ue0rOXt.jpg)
One of my Duck Eagles in an FMJ design #1 case. Alpine Winter. SKCM (tactile) Brown. Hot swap modded. Carbon fiber plate. Gold plated Cherry stabs.
(http://i.imgur.com/j0C2igQ.jpg)
The Duck Eagle I built first: Genuine Hammer case, caps from a korean-made Visual board and Badwrench's Alps DCS mod. Same mods as above, carbon fiber plate. SKCL Green, backlit.
(http://i.imgur.com/Pplfkut.jpg)
And my first Alps custom-ish board, the Infinity whose case I painted up. This one can actually take Alps switches without soldering, which was one of the inspirations for hot swap modding my other boards (used holtite sockets).
Sold though. This board gave me RSI when I was using it with SKCM Orange. Case was way too stiff.
Anyway, that's my Alps custom collection. Just felt like posting it. I mainly did the hot swap mod was for longevity of my boards and so I could always swap switches if I got bored of a certain type. Also, it was just a cool mod to do, really. Also, making a complicated Alps bid with backlighting was just a neat concept to me.
The NCR is the only custom Alps board that's soldered, all the rest are solderless because of the socket mods.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 04 July 2016, 01:37:10
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 04 July 2016, 15:28:01
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 05 July 2016, 10:10:15
Just found a Wang 725-3770 on Texas craigslist. That would be a even better candidate for a SKCM Blue swap...Will contact him.
Good luck with getting that! All I've ever found on craigslist were a bunch of old rubber dome Triad Systems keyboards... so you got lucky :p
How goes your restoration work with the SKCM Blues? With minimal lubing mine feel pretty decent and rather smooth; however, they feel heavier than the mint SKCM Blues I pulled from a Leading Edge board and closer to Montery Blues than SKCM Blues (in other words, better than SKCM Whites but you don't feel like you're typing on a cloud of clicky, smooth air).
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 05 July 2016, 13:47:37
Just found a Wang 725-3770 on Texas craigslist. That would be a even better candidate for a SKCM Blue swap...Will contact him.
Good luck with getting that! All I've ever found on craigslist were a bunch of old rubber dome Triad Systems keyboards... so you guy lucky :p
How goes your restoration work with the SKCM Blues? With minimal lubing mine feel pretty decent and rather smooth; however, they feel heavier than the mint SKCM Blues I pulled from a Leading Edge board and closer to Montery Blues than SKCM Blues (in other words, better than SKCM Whites but you don't feel like you're typing on a cloud of clicky, smooth air).
Well I got the guy down to $40 for it and he seems willing to ship it so I think I got it! Hoping for SKCM Salmons/SKCL Yellow's since I already have a Orange board and pine SKCM Black is meh. Although I won't have enough SKCM Blue switches for it. About 15 short. Either way excited for it. Cool design, in cap lock lights, Alps dyesubs with blue double dyesub printing, deep dish homing keys and a speaker beeper? Hell yea! ;D
Its been on hold since I need to go get the lube lol, after that I need to lube the top housings of the SKCL Greens and lube the Blues.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 05 July 2016, 15:25:59
Good luck with getting that! All I've ever found on craigslist were a bunch of old rubber dome Triad Systems keyboards... so you guy lucky :p
How goes your restoration work with the SKCM Blues? With minimal lubing mine feel pretty decent and rather smooth; however, they feel heavier than the mint SKCM Blues I pulled from a Leading Edge board and closer to Montery Blues than SKCM Blues (in other words, better than SKCM Whites but you don't feel like you're typing on a cloud of clicky, smooth air).
Well, I believe that there are some batches of SKCM Blues that are slightly heavier/lighter than others. I've typed on batches that have felt very airy and others that are a bit more stiff. Perhaps spring wear contributes to a lightening up of the switches? Either way, I've always felt like there was a bit of variation when it comes to SKCM Blues. I've never had any dirty batches either, so it's not that.
One interesting little thing to mention is that I use a SKCL Brown spring for the space bar on my Orion. Now, I'm fine with using the typical standard blue Alps weighting for a space bar on all of my vintages, and even some other customs I used SKCM Blue in, but after getting used to the weighting with my Orion, anything less just feels awkward.
I tried a spring from SKCM Salmon, which are about 10 g lighter than the SKCL Brown spring, but it still felt off. :P
Post by: E3E on Tue, 05 July 2016, 17:30:53
(http://i.imgur.com/hb5IWDi.jpg)
On the left is a Multistation spherical, on the right is a spherical key cap from an unknown board. This came with my set of Multistation caps, but it is certainly not from the IBM Multistation.
(http://i.imgur.com/GOmUPQ1.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 05 July 2016, 17:34:42
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 05 July 2016, 18:53:13
pay a handsome sum for a set like that
No way to piece together a proper set of those. At best the alphas and a handful of random odd matches.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 05 July 2016, 19:01:11
Maybe enough for a 60%? That's what everyone seems to use nowadays anyway xD .
pay a handsome sum for a set like that
No way to piece together a proper set of those. At best the alphas and a handful of random odd matches.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 05 July 2016, 19:04:15
Maybe enough for a 60%? That's what everyone seems to use nowadays anyway xD .
pay a handsome sum for a set like that
No way to piece together a proper set of those. At best the alphas and a handful of random odd matches.
Hold on there, my fellows!
We'd have to identify what BOARD they come from first. That cap did not come from the IBM Multistation.
The key itself is a . Del key from a number pad.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 05 July 2016, 22:54:16
Post by: emdude on Wed, 06 July 2016, 22:49:18
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 07 July 2016, 07:38:51
Well, I went ahead and bought another SGI Granite, bit of an impulse buy, but I guess I can use it for a project like a switch swap or something. At the very least I'll have an extra set of them nice SGI caps. :P
If you don't mind me asking, where did you find yours? I saw one on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicon-Graphics-AT-101-Granite-PS-2-Keyboard-9500900-White-Alps-switches-/311651264083?hash=item488fdce653:g:RogAAOSwXeJXfVdd) and that one is gone now so that would be my guess. I am looking for one for similar purposes. In any case, nice find!
Post by: emdude on Thu, 07 July 2016, 12:39:02
I actually only have the set of SGI key caps so I'm getting the keyboard to also experiment with swapping the dampened sliders with the ones in my brown Alps. I recall reading that the force curve of brown Alps is rounded like that of Topre switches; I have not tried Topre at all, but I wonder if using dampened sliders will produce something that feels similar.
I imagine E3E or Jacobolus has performed such an experiment already so I'd be curious to hear their thoughts on it.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 07 July 2016, 14:15:17
Thanks! Yes, that's the one, it seemed to be reasonably priced so I thought I might as well.
I actually only have the set of SGI key caps so I'm getting the keyboard to also experiment with swapping the dampened sliders with the ones in my brown Alps. I recall reading that the force curve of brown Alps is rounded like that of Topre switches; I have not tried Topre at all, but I wonder if using dampened sliders will produce something that feels similar.
I imagine E3E or Jacobolus has performed such an experiment already so I'd be curious to hear their thoughts on it.
I have tried Topre and I can say that SKCM Green and SKCM Brown are very much what I'd imagine Topre making if they used discrete mechanical switches. :)
I have tried putting a dampened slider into an SKCM Brown housing, and the effect is feel that is VERY similar to Topre. I know many would kind of avoid this since the SKCM Damped switches don't have the best rep or even that nice of a color (imo), but combining them with tactile browns is great.
Here's a video of someone who tested this exact thing:
:D
Post by: emdude on Thu, 07 July 2016, 18:53:56
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 07 July 2016, 23:44:27
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 08 July 2016, 11:40:51
Post by: chyros on Fri, 08 July 2016, 12:57:01
The Wang 725-3770 is mine :D $40 Looks to have SKCM Orange/SKCL Green from the rear label since it mentions IBM XT, AT and PS/2 compatibility.I think only very early ones had oranges and greens tbh, but who knows :) .
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 13:49:12
The Wang 725-3770 is mine :D $40 Looks to have SKCM Orange/SKCL Green from the rear label since it mentions IBM XT, AT and PS/2 compatibility.I think only very early ones had oranges and greens tbh, but who knows :) .
Who knows :p Kinda hoping for a salmon/yellow board since I already have a orange board. Looking at pics of salmon and black boards they don't mention XT while the orange boards I found online do mention it so at least it's not a late one. Maybe a early salmon/green board perhaps.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 13:50:39
yall are making me want a wang so bad (no homo lmao)The Wang 725-3770 is mine :D $40 Looks to have SKCM Orange/SKCL Green from the rear label since it mentions IBM XT, AT and PS/2 compatibility.I think only very early ones had oranges and greens tbh, but who knows :) .
Who knows :p Kinda hoping for a salmon/yellow board since I already have a orange board. Looking at pics of salmon and black boards they don't mention XT while the orange boards I found online do mention it so at least it's not a late one. Maybe a early salmon/green board perhaps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 14:33:27
yall are making me want a wang so bad (no homo lmao)The Wang 725-3770 is mine :D $40 Looks to have SKCM Orange/SKCL Green from the rear label since it mentions IBM XT, AT and PS/2 compatibility.I think only very early ones had oranges and greens tbh, but who knows :) .
Who knows :p Kinda hoping for a salmon/yellow board since I already have a orange board. Looking at pics of salmon and black boards they don't mention XT while the orange boards I found online do mention it so at least it's not a late one. Maybe a early salmon/green board perhaps.
Cool design and layout, in cap lock lights, Alps dyesubs with blue double dyesub printing, deep dish homing keys and a speaker :p
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 14:34:29
now youre just rubbing it in. whats not to love?yall are making me want a wang so bad (no homo lmao)The Wang 725-3770 is mine :D $40 Looks to have SKCM Orange/SKCL Green from the rear label since it mentions IBM XT, AT and PS/2 compatibility.I think only very early ones had oranges and greens tbh, but who knows :) .
Who knows :p Kinda hoping for a salmon/yellow board since I already have a orange board. Looking at pics of salmon and black boards they don't mention XT while the orange boards I found online do mention it so at least it's not a late one. Maybe a early salmon/green board perhaps.
Cool design and layout, in cap lock lights, Alps dyesubs with blue double dyesub printing, deep dish homing keys and a speaker :p
Post by: E3E on Fri, 08 July 2016, 14:50:25
Cool design and layout, in cap lock lights, Alps dyesubs with blue double dyesub printing, deep dish homing keys and a speaker :p
Deep dish? That's for sphericals man, cylindrical caps have SCOOPS. GET IT RIGHT. :cool:
Congrats though. People pay a lot of money for their Wangs more often than not. You've skated by with your Wang. People dream of Wangs for $40 shipped.
I don't know though, it might just be me, but I find Wangs to look a little weird.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 08 July 2016, 14:58:17
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 15:00:12
I think they are pretty nice-looking boards, marred only by their extra-long right modifiers. :rolleyes:I am very used to non standard modifiers now thanks to my f xt, so a layout like the wang has would feel refreshingly normal.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 08 July 2016, 15:26:29
I think they are pretty nice-looking boards, marred only by their extra-long right modifiers. :rolleyes:
The layout is a little eccentric, and I'm not sure why, but they are certainly usable, but then that's subjective. :P I mean, Model F pattern boards are usable too. At least the Wang is closer to ANSI.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 15:42:15
Lol didn't know the difference. Yea I was surprised to find one. Took so much craigslist-fu to find it. Originally wanted 60 but got him down and willing to ship :thumb: The same guy is also selling a '95 Model M.Cool design and layout, in cap lock lights, Alps dyesubs with blue double dyesub printing, deep dish homing keys and a speaker :p
Deep dish? That's for sphericals man, cylindrical caps have SCOOPS. GET IT RIGHT. :cool:
Congrats though. People pay a lot of money for their Wangs more often than not. You've skated by with your Wang. People dream of Wangs for $40 shipped.
I don't know though, it might just be me, but I find Wangs to look a little weird.
It's pretty ANSI imo. Just some extra keys and a couple movements like prtsrc and pause/breakI think they are pretty nice-looking boards, marred only by their extra-long right modifiers. :rolleyes:
The layout is a little eccentric, and I'm not sure why, but they are certainly usable, but then that's subjective. :P I mean, Model F pattern boards are usable too. At least the Wang is closer to ANSI.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 08 July 2016, 15:54:57
Post by: emdude on Fri, 08 July 2016, 16:25:31
I think they are pretty nice-looking boards, marred only by their extra-long right modifiers. :rolleyes:
The layout is a little eccentric, and I'm not sure why, but they are certainly usable, but then that's subjective. :P I mean, Model F pattern boards are usable too. At least the Wang is closer to ANSI.
It kinda pains me to look at the layout of the Model F XT, but that's just me.
I generally lean towards more standardized layouts for pragmatic reasons, especially for rarer keyboards. If you have a favorite board that for whatever reason irreparably breaks, you can just throw the key caps and/or switches on another board or a custom.
That said, I do use boards with silly layouts (*coughapplecough*), but I'd take the good ol' Enhanced 101 (or 103) or 104-key layouts any day.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 08 July 2016, 16:32:58
What do you guys recommend I swap the switches for if I like the Matias?
Post by: emdude on Fri, 08 July 2016, 16:37:19
Otherwise, SKCM Oranges or Salmons if you want something that isn't dampened.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:02:13
Well, if you like both the sound and feel of the Matias QCs then SKCM Cream Damped or White Damped switches would be the obvious choice here. :Dregular skcm cream kicks ass, I cant see how you didnt put that on your non damped list
Otherwise, SKCM Oranges or Salmons if you want something that isn't dampened.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:06:59
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:08:14
Ah, perhaps I should have mentioned it, but I only included switches that can be found on relatively common boards that one wouldn't feel bad about tearing apart. I wouldn't put something like the Next keyboard on that list. :PneXt boards can be had for <40$ on ebay, I would call them common. I still need to build a converter for mine though.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:15:37
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:18:32
Isn't that just one guy selling a stash of boards that's slowly drying up though? Looks like he has one more of the okay condition ones left. If klennkellon wants one, he'd better grab one now. :Pyeah, I think its just that one guy but there was like 25+ boards that he had
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:25:43
Lol didn't know the difference. Yea I was surprised to find one. Took so much craigslist-fu to find it. Originally wanted 60 but got him down and willing to ship :thumb: The same guy is also selling a '95 Model M.
I actually found it really quickly, that exact listing too no less, haha. He has a model 724 wang up there now, sent him an email about it (yours was a model 725, right?). There are sites that will let you do a national craigslist search and typing in "Wang keyboard" brought it up in seconds.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:28:24
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:29:09
Lol didn't know the difference. Yea I was surprised to find one. Took so much craigslist-fu to find it. Originally wanted 60 but got him down and willing to ship :thumb: The same guy is also selling a '95 Model M.
I actually found it really quickly, that exact listing too no less, haha. He has a model 724 wang up there now, sent him an email about it (yours was a model 725, right?). There are sites that will let you do a national craigslist search and typing in "Wang keyboard" brought it up in seconds.
Wait dude! 724=725! Don't mess things up. I got him lower so don't want him to sell it to you for full price!
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:30:12
Wait dude! 724=725! Don't mess things up. I got him lower so don't want him to sell it to you for full price!
Whoops, nevermind, just sent him an email saying I bought one for less on eBay. Wouldn't want to swipe that out from under you.
EDIT: I actually found it a few days ago and emailed him then. Never heard back from him so I think you're safe.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:34:41
Oh ok, whew. Don't want to lose it at the last minute like previous deals lol. He's supposed to send me a PayPal invoice today.Wait dude! 724=725! Don't mess things up. I got him lower so don't want him to sell it to you for full price!
Whoops, nevermind, just sent him an email saying I bought one for less on eBay. Wouldn't want to swipe that out from under you.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:43:29
EDIT: I actually found it a few days ago and emailed him then. Never heard back from him so I think you're safe.Huh. Well ok then. First sent an email about it on the fourth.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:56:40
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 08 July 2016, 18:00:14
do any of you guys know if the keycaps on the clone model ms with blue alps are dyesubbed pbt like the real deal?
Did we ever determine if the boards from Taobao were clone model ms or not? If they are then the answer is no, these were double-shot ABS for the alphas/mods and some sort of printing for the F-keys. My board is labelled as JKB-6151M/OEM.
EDIT: Looking at the one example on Deskthority I am going to go ahead and say this board was definitely not a clone model m in a past life. The stabilizers and the plate's shape are wrong.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 18:06:59
These boards?do any of you guys know if the keycaps on the clone model ms with blue alps are dyesubbed pbt like the real deal?
Did we ever determine if the boards from Taobao were clone model ms or not? If they are then the answer is no, these were double-shot ABS for the alphas/mods and some sort of printing for the F-keys. My board is labelled as JKB-6151M/OEM.
EDIT: Looking at the one example on Deskthority I am going to go ahead and say this board was definitely not a clone model m in a past life. The stabilizers and the plate's shape are wrong.
(http://i.imgur.com/3gV4GtP.jpg)
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 08 July 2016, 18:10:32
These boards?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3gV4GtP.jpg)
I was talking about these:
(http://i.imgur.com/VC7T7bj.jpg)
I thought that someone suspected that they were model m's or something.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 18:16:24
thats no model m, thats an early focus board, like one of the ones I ordered. the supposed model m clone is the one in my pic.These boards?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3gV4GtP.jpg)
I was talking about these:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VC7T7bj.jpg)
I thought that someone suspected that they were model m's or something.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:11:56
thats no model m, thats an early focus board, like one of the ones I ordered. the supposed model m clone is the one in my pic.
Yeah, I figured that out, haha. Regardless, I don't think that's a model m either since the model m clones don't have their lock lights on the PCB. Like in this image:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZrYxBHp.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:17:19
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:20:15
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:26:49
I was thinking of using an AEK1 or one of those m011a for caps and switches. But I would replace the switches with these Matias and also replace the caps.why trade skcm salmon or orange for anything matias? I do know the matias caps are **** though.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:32:03
very interesting. I wonder what board the plate and pcb I got came from. it has those long stemmed f row caps, the stepped caps lock and the green legends on the alt keys.
Mysteries abound, does your PCB have any markings on it?
I was thinking of using an AEK1 or one of those m011a for caps and switches. But I would replace the switches with these Matias and also replace the caps.why trade skcm salmon or orange for anything matias? I do know the matias caps are **** though.
I am confused by this... getting an AEKI for switches and caps then replacing the switches and caps? Heh?
That being said, I second mike's logic here... unless you wanted damped switches, I guess. Why are Matias' keycaps ****, though?
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:38:14
For the first part, I dont know, those are just the photos the taobao agent sent me.very interesting. I wonder what board the plate and pcb I got came from. it has those long stemmed f row caps, the stepped caps lock and the green legends on the alt keys.
Mysteries abound, does your PCB have any markings on it?I was thinking of using an AEK1 or one of those m011a for caps and switches. But I would replace the switches with these Matias and also replace the caps.
why trade skcm salmon or orange for anything matias? I do know the matias caps are **** though.
I am confused by this... getting an AEKI for switches and caps then replacing the switches and caps? Heh?
That being said, I second mike's logic here... unless you wanted damped switches, I guess. Why are Matias' keycaps ****, though?
as for the caps, theyre thin abs with pad printed legends. theyre not the best, atleast the caps that came on my kbp v60. I heard matias actually is working on really nice thick pbt dyesubs.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:41:14
The caps the V80 has are front print laser etched/filled
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:43:29
I already have a board with Matias QCs. I was going to harvest switches from an AEK and replace them with the Matias I have because I don't want to ruin a nice board like the AEK.haha thats what you meant. that actually makes sense.
The caps the V80 has are front print laser etched/filled
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 20:52:54
My Taobao board is that.thats no model m, thats an early focus board, like one of the ones I ordered. the supposed model m clone is the one in my pic.
Yeah, I figured that out, haha. Regardless, I don't think that's a model m either since the model m clones don't have their lock lights on the PCB. Like in this image:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZrYxBHp.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 08 July 2016, 20:55:43
thats no model m, thats an early focus board, like one of the ones I ordered. the supposed model m clone is the one in my pic.
Yeah, I figured that out, haha. Regardless, I don't think that's a model m either since the model m clones don't have their lock lights on the PCB. Like in this image:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZrYxBHp.jpg)
Perhaps it's a later model Model M clone after they cut corners? I say this because of the distinctive arrow legends on the cluster and numpad as well as the F and J keys homing bars. That's what I think it is, personally.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 09 July 2016, 14:07:58
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 09 July 2016, 14:09:40
Post by: E3E on Sat, 09 July 2016, 22:44:05
I got a few of those boards and based on the pictures I got from the proxy I'm gong to guess doubleshots. The only PBT dyesubs I know of with sub-legends are those from Apple boards.
The only other one I can think of is the IBM P70, which is alps plate spring.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 10 July 2016, 14:47:07
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 11 July 2016, 16:05:01
edit: My phone cable! totally forgot! Will still need to buy a cable though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 11 July 2016, 16:15:06
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 11 July 2016, 17:28:11
I am typing to you now on the NeXT! SKCM Cream is gud :p
I have been staving off buying one of these because of the whole "unhacking my wallet thing" (which has been met with varying degrees of success, haha) but this makes me tempted again. Are SKCM Cream switches lubed like Oranges?
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 11 July 2016, 17:51:44
when we meet up Ill bring my neXt and you can try the skcm creams for yourself.I am typing to you now on the NeXT! SKCM Cream is gud :p
I have been staving off buying one of these because of the whole "unhacking my wallet thing" (which has been met with varying degrees of success, haha) but this makes me tempted again. Are SKCM Cream switches lubed like Oranges?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 11 July 2016, 18:28:05
Should be I guess, they're first-gen =o .I am typing to you now on the NeXT! SKCM Cream is gud :p
I have been staving off buying one of these because of the whole "unhacking my wallet thing" (which has been met with varying degrees of success, haha) but this makes me tempted again. Are SKCM Cream switches lubed like Oranges?
Post by: E3E on Mon, 11 July 2016, 18:38:26
Got Hasu's NeXT converter! Although I can't use it since I don't have a usb2 micro b to usb a cable. :(
edit: My phone cable! totally forgot! Will still need to buy a cable though.
I am typing to you now on the NeXT! SKCM Cream is gud :p
The time it took to go from post #1 to #2 makes me laugh, lol.
Where did you pick up your converter? How much was it? It's very tempting, since I do like the NeXT.
Post by: Carnage on Mon, 11 July 2016, 20:38:52
Post by: chyros on Mon, 11 July 2016, 20:55:31
Post by: Carnage on Mon, 11 July 2016, 21:08:52
Futaba lock. common on old Focus calculator boards.Thanks cool to know I learned something new.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 11 July 2016, 21:15:21
Lol yea.Got Hasu's NeXT converter! Although I can't use it since I don't have a usb2 micro b to usb a cable. :(
edit: My phone cable! totally forgot! Will still need to buy a cable though.I am typing to you now on the NeXT! SKCM Cream is gud :p
The time it took to go from post #1 to #2 makes me laugh, lol.
Where did you pick up your converter? How much was it? It's very tempting, since I do like the NeXT.
Got it from Hasu for $40, expensive but its great. Has a LED indicator and a reset button. Small and very well made. Looks like also with a bit of soldering and a reflash it could adapt a lot of other things like ADB, X68K, Sun and others.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 11 July 2016, 22:27:18
Should be I guess, they're first-gen =o .Ah, so they are considered to be first gen switches. I didn't know if it had been placed on the Alps timeline. The last post I read about them implied that we (the keyboard community) didn't know when they were produced/which generation they were in.
when we meet up Ill bring my neXt and you can try the skcm creams for yourself.Awesome, thanks man!
In other news, I got a Leading Edge DC-2014 keyboard for like $15 today. I am optimistic it has Blue Alps *crosses fingers*
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 11 July 2016, 22:28:43
what else can a dc-2014 come with? btw, one of my taobao boards will be coming tomorrow.Should be I guess, they're first-gen =o .Ah, so they are considered to be first gen switches. I didn't know if it had been placed on the Alps timeline. The last post I read about them implied that we (the keyboard community) didn't know when they were produced/which generation they were in.when we meet up Ill bring my neXt and you can try the skcm creams for yourself.Awesome, thanks man!
In other news, I got a Leading Edge DC-2014 keyboard for like $15 today. I am optimistic it has Blue Alps *crosses fingers*
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 11 July 2016, 22:36:21
what else can a dc-2014 come with? btw, one of my taobao boards will be coming tomorrow.I don't think a DC-2014 can come with anything else, I am just worried since the seller isn't the most technical and I didn't get the actual model number from it. I should have said "DC-2014" in quotes since that would be more accurate. From the pictures I have seen of it, it looks like a DC-2014; I don't think any other Leading Edge boards came with its signature layout.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 06:03:01
Post by: chyros on Tue, 12 July 2016, 06:32:55
It'd be a pretty good guess though xD .
Post by: E3E on Tue, 12 July 2016, 08:27:19
Nothing's ever for sure in Alps land, we thought the same about the KB-101A and there are white Alps ones of that, too :p .
It'd be a pretty good guess though xD .
Though those are very specific Texas Instruments rebrands that are pretty different from standard KB101As or even minor rebrands like my Datapoint and a Fujitsu one I've seen.
I've seen a 6011 with a KB101A style case with Alps SKCM White, though its label did indeed say "6011." It's true though; nothing is for certain. A big thing we thought we had down for a while was the idea that KB101AS meant that the model had doubleshots, but this is untrue. A model found on reddit had the UV printed Acer caps.
So who knows! What would be cool would be if there are actually more models than just the Xerox Docutechs that have SKCM Green. :)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 12 July 2016, 08:29:02
Something to consider is that some DC-2014 might be resold with switches swapped out. Any untouched DC-2014 will be blue Alps for sure though.
This is a possibility I've wondered before too, because I've considered selling boards after switch swapping (I've never actually swapped switch types in my vintages though), though it'd be in poor taste to sell it without mentioning that aspect.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 08:34:16
Ive thought about this too, but make sure you mention it is for a collector only, and it doesnt have the original switches. we dont want to **** over any of our keyboarding buddies :))Something to consider is that some DC-2014 might be resold with switches swapped out. Any untouched DC-2014 will be blue Alps for sure though.
This is a possibility I've wondered before too, because I've considered selling boards after switch swapping (I've never actually swapped switch types in my vintages though), though it'd be in poor taste to sell it without mentioning that aspect.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 12 July 2016, 08:43:37
Something to consider is that some DC-2014 might be resold with switches swapped out.Like I said, the seller is not that technical so I have am willing to gander that is not the case.
Nothing's ever for sure in Alps land, we thought the same about the KB-101A and there are white Alps ones of that, too :pLol, therein lies the root of my concerns. It's good, though, we'll always be learning things :p
I have sold a bare AEK with black bamboo switches swapped into it before. Since it was bare it was easy to see it didn't have the original switches and I made sure to mention that someone had swapped its switches.Ive thought about this too, but make sure you mention it is for a collector only, and it doesnt have the original switches. we dont want to **** over any of our keyboarding buddies :))Something to consider is that some DC-2014 might be resold with switches swapped out. Any untouched DC-2014 will be blue Alps for sure though.
This is a possibility I've wondered before too, because I've considered selling boards after switch swapping (I've never actually swapped switch types in my vintages though), though it'd be in poor taste to sell it without mentioning that aspect.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 08:46:01
I have sold a bare AEK with black bamboo switches swapped into it before. Since it was bare it was easy to see it didn't have the original switches and I made sure to mention that someone had swapped its switches.I saw that board on ebay awhile back, small world.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 12 July 2016, 08:50:40
Something to consider is that some DC-2014 might be resold with switches swapped out.Like I said, the seller is not that technical so I have am willing to gander that is not the case.
Do you happen to have a picture? I've seen a BTC (I think) Leading Edge board that looked awfully similar but was not a DC-2014. In all likelyhood, it's a DC-2014. That BTC model is actually harder to find, I'd say.
EDIT: Here's the one I'm speaking of. I don't think it's BTC. I don't know actually.
(http://puu.sh/pZ4q9/1b05b77a11.jpg)
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 12 July 2016, 08:55:25
Do you happen to have a picture? I've seen a BTC (I think) Leading Edge board that looked awfully similar but was not a DC-2014. In all likelyhood, it's a DC-2014. That BTC model is actually harder to find, I'd say.
You mean one like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leading-Edge-AT-Style-Unusual-Keyboard-/151065549650?hash=item232c355b52:g:bSQAAOxy7MtRv0cM)? Mine doesn't have a lock light like the one in this picture so I think I am safe :D
EDIT: I didn't see your edit, my conclusion is unchanged. That's a weird enter key, too...
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 09:04:09
Post by: E3E on Tue, 12 July 2016, 10:02:05
Do you happen to have a picture? I've seen a BTC (I think) Leading Edge board that looked awfully similar but was not a DC-2014. In all likelyhood, it's a DC-2014. That BTC model is actually harder to find, I'd say.
You mean one like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leading-Edge-AT-Style-Unusual-Keyboard-/151065549650?hash=item232c355b52:g:bSQAAOxy7MtRv0cM)? Mine doesn't have a lock light like the one in this picture so I think I am safe :D
EDIT: I didn't see your edit, my conclusion is unchanged. That's a weird enter key, too...
Haha yeah, right? A completely vertical enter key. I've never seen that before. Yeah, the odds are in your favor, my friend! :D
Also, did anyone see this crazy Xerox Daybreak system?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XEROX-60852-XPIW-XDE-FUNCTIONING-WORKSTATION-SYSTEM-WITH-VIEWPOINT-2-LOADED-/302011051208
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vggAAOSwv9FXgxtN/s-l1600.jpg)
The tower looks so cool. I've only ever seen the 6085 boards with SKCM Brown. I really love the sleekness of the Xerox keyboards with this design. It's one of my favorites despite the XT ish layout. The 10 function keys at the top just do it for me. I think Alps boards with those like the IBM JX from Japan look really classy. It's a classy way to do compact keys.
(http://computers.popcorn.cx/ibm/jx/ibm-jx-09.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 12 July 2016, 10:08:29
Haha yeah, right? A completely vertical enter key. I've never seen that before. Yeah, the odds are in your favor, my friend! :DIt was standard for many XT keyboards ;) .
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/IBM_Model_F_XT.png)
Boards before that sometimes had vertical enter keys too, like my ITT Courier board. If not vertical, it was often a square enter key.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 10:09:46
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 10:10:48
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 11:15:21
Post by: y11971alex on Tue, 12 July 2016, 17:45:31
Vertical enter is pretty bad, but ive gotten used to the xt layout. normal ansi feels weird to me after using an xt board for a few weeks.I think the XT return key is especially heinous because 1) it's narrow and 2) it's stepped, forcing you to hit the key's plateau situated between the second and third rows.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:32:06
How come the XT version got all stepped keys and the AT version used mostly stabed keys? Is there a reason for this?
Post by: chyros on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:38:37
Whats up with all of the stepped keys on the XT Model F.They didn't like using stabs at the time.
How come the XT version got all stepped keys and the AT version used mostly stabed keys? Is there a reason for this?
Post by: y11971alex on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:43:07
Whats up with all of the stepped keys on the XT Model F.:p
Quote
How come the XT version got all stepped keys and the AT version used mostly stabed keys? Is there a reason for this?My guess is that it's a holdover from beam spring. The two keys on the bottom edges of my 3101, RESET and SEND respectively, have off-centre stems off to the sides, so the bit towards the centre is stepped off; however, I found that they didn't really need to step the keys, as they push just as smoothly on the stepped off bits. The 3101 also shares the XT's propensity for small SHIFT keys and a vertical return key, though on the beam spring the SHIFT, LOCK (third row leftmost), RETURN (vertical, third to fourth row), BACKSPACE, are not stepped either. Perhaps IBM recognized this quaint shortcoming of buckling springs but didn't care about it...?
Of course these are only guesses.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:43:48
Correct me if I am wrong on this, but the real crime here is that even after IBM introduced the 101-key layout with the PS/2, manufacturers continued to copy the BAE and 1u Backspace of the AT *coughalpscough*. >:D
Post by: y11971alex on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:46:23
The PC-AT succeeded the PC-XT, so the AT layout was just another iterative step towards the modern 104-key layout.Isn't the BAE just a merger of the ISO and ANSI return keys? Focus does a good job preserving a usable BACKSPACE by placing the BACKSLASH to the right of the right SHIFT, which is quite reasonable in my opinion. I don't strike the right SHIFT on its right side, at all; perhaps my pinky is too short. :rolleyes:
Correct me if I am wrong on this, but the real crime here is that even after IBM introduced the 101-key layout with the PS/2, manufacturers continued to copy the BAE and 1u Backspace of the AT *coughalpscough*. >:D
Post by: emdude on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:53:40
The 1u Backspace was such a bad, bad idea though. :-\
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:58:54
(http://i.imgur.com/5vpbLJa.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 19:03:39
Diamonds in the (very) roughShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/5vpbLJa.jpg)
Same here. Hope yours come out well too! Need to get that Dupont lube and I should be ready for reassembly.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 19:08:18
Could you link me the lube you found?Diamonds in the (very) roughShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/5vpbLJa.jpg)
Same here. Hope yours come out well too! Need to get that Dupont lube and I should be ready for reassembly.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 12 July 2016, 19:12:30
Could you link me the lube you found?
I have been experimenting with this lube (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BCVXUVM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), it seems to work reasonably well.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 19:21:18
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 13 July 2016, 13:41:57
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 13 July 2016, 20:35:43
SKCM Orange feel lovely, very smooth and the tactility is sharp but feels less harsh than the Matias QC.
SKCM Black feel really weird. They have an audible but soft "click" and it feels like there's 2 bumps, they sound like they were "half click modded" like Chyros demonstrated.
Dampened Cream: They're like stiffer Matias QC but a little louder and less mushy feeling.
I think I'll solder all of these switches under the print screen, scroll lock, and pause/break key so I have a little tester built into the board. Definitely going to invest in some SKCM orange to replace the alphas. If I collect some more switches I'll replace the nav cluster as well.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 13 July 2016, 22:07:01
Fujitsu Peerless is just as worthless as rubber domes.
I know, but at least its different and interesting.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 14 July 2016, 03:50:28
Some people REALLY like them. Personally I find them disappointing though, especially considering how good other Fujitsu switches are.Fujitsu Peerless is just as worthless as rubber domes.
I know, but at least its different and interesting.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 14 July 2016, 07:15:25
SKCM Black feel really weird. They have an audible but soft "click" and it feels like there's 2 bumps, they sound like they were "half click modded" like Chyros demonstrated.
Every SKCM (Bamboo) Black board I've played with has had that "problem;" I assure you those are stock, though.
I think I'll solder all of these switches under the print screen, scroll lock, and pause/break key so I have a little tester built into the board. Definitely going to invest in some SKCM orange to replace the alphas. If I collect some more switches I'll replace the nav cluster as well.
That's a pretty good idea, I would put them there too since I never use those keys :thumb: Which board are you working on, again?
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 14 July 2016, 07:36:10
Some people REALLY like them. Personally I find them disappointing though, especially considering how good other Fujitsu switches are.Fujitsu Peerless is just as worthless as rubber domes.
I know, but at least its different and interesting.
I bought about 12 Peerless boards to resell and it took me months to sell them all at $12 each.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:41:19
Got Wingpads switches today.
SKCM Orange feel lovely, very smooth and the tactility is sharp but feels less harsh than the Matias QC.
SKCM Black feel really weird. They have an audible but soft "click" and it feels like there's 2 bumps, they sound like they were "half click modded" like Chyros demonstrated.
Dampened Cream: They're like stiffer Matias QC but a little louder and less mushy feeling.
I think I'll solder all of these switches under the print screen, scroll lock, and pause/break key so I have a little tester built into the board. Definitely going to invest in some SKCM orange to replace the alphas. If I collect some more switches I'll replace the nav cluster as well.
I have not tried SKCM Blacks myself but looking at this force graph at least, your assessment of them sounds about right.
(http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/gif/alps22.gif)
How weird, there's two pretty distinct tactile points on an SKCM Black's force curve; it's no wonder people think they feel rough.
Interestingly, SKCM Creams (presumably Damped), have a similar force curve, but the second bump is a bit less pronounced.
It looks like that extra bump might be due to the switchplate leaf, would that assessment be a reasonable one?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 14 July 2016, 13:54:54
What I want to achieve is a light action and quiet but distinctly tactile switch. I have enough good clean orange to do the whole thing, plus tons of others (black, white, cream (old Wang creams, not the dampened Apple type), and a few blues).
My thought now is to use orange, either straight-up or click-modded, and I will take them apart, clean them thoroughly, and lightly lube them before I install them into the new switch bodies. As I understand it, the orange springs are among the lightest available, already, and lubing them should make them seem even lighter.
So I am left with whether to mod the leaves. Tactility is supremely important to me, and noise is more of a minus than a plus, but I will gladly lived with less-than-ideal sound to optimize the feel.
Does this sound like a plan, and/or do you have other suggestions? I have never seriously modded Alps switches before.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 14 July 2016, 14:00:11
I still may not actually get around to doing it for a month, but I got a great Northgate 101 on ebay with like new complicated white Alps, and I am going to upgrade them. I have had soldering problems with Northgates several times in the past, so now, with Mr Bishop's great tool, I want to leave the switch bodies intact and in place and do whatever I am going to do from the top.I would just go with stock creams or click modded creams. nice tactilty, smooth, snappy and a cool sound. whats not to love?
What I want to achieve is a light action and quiet but distinctly tactile switch. I have enough good clean orange to do the whole thing, plus tons of others (black, white, cream (old Wang creams, not the dampened Apple type), and a few blues).
My thought now is to use orange, either straight-up or click-modded, and I will take them apart, clean them thoroughly, and lightly lube them before I install them into the new switch bodies. As I understand it, the orange springs are among the lightest available, already, and lubing them should make them seem even lighter.
So I am left with whether to mod the leaves. Tactility is supremely important to me, and noise is more of a minus than a plus, but I will gladly lived with less-than-ideal sound to optimize the feel.
Does this sound like a plan, and/or do you have other suggestions? I have never seriously modded Alps switches before.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 14 July 2016, 14:09:35
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 14 July 2016, 14:25:39
I have one click-modded orange on my aek (the power button) and I think that if you don't mind the noise, nothing is lost with the mod. Those blacks you have, are their old-logo AT101 or new ones? I only have old ones, and while they are OK on their own, when directly comparing against other types, their weaknesses really show.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 14 July 2016, 15:19:18
I still may not actually get around to doing it for a month, but I got a great Northgate 101 on ebay with like new complicated white Alps, and I am going to upgrade them. I have had soldering problems with Northgates several times in the past, so now, with Mr Bishop's great tool, I want to leave the switch bodies intact and in place and do whatever I am going to do from the top.I'd advise against lubing Alps, especially when they're already in good condition. It's probably not worth it mate, they're great the way they are by default :) .
What I want to achieve is a light action and quiet but distinctly tactile switch. I have enough good clean orange to do the whole thing, plus tons of others (black, white, cream (old Wang creams, not the dampened Apple type), and a few blues).
My thought now is to use orange, either straight-up or click-modded, and I will take them apart, clean them thoroughly, and lightly lube them before I install them into the new switch bodies. As I understand it, the orange springs are among the lightest available, already, and lubing them should make them seem even lighter.
So I am left with whether to mod the leaves. Tactility is supremely important to me, and noise is more of a minus than a plus, but I will gladly lived with less-than-ideal sound to optimize the feel.
Does this sound like a plan, and/or do you have other suggestions? I have never seriously modded Alps switches before.
If you want tactile, you can just use the orange tactile leaf. Half-click modded you can also do they're a fair bit louder already though, probably not what you're looking for if you're after a quiet click board. Fully click-modded you might as well keep the white's click leaves I think :) .
Post by: emdude on Mon, 18 July 2016, 15:32:40
Hope the calculator works! Also, would a simple AT-PS/2 adapter be sufficient for the keyboard?
(http://i.imgur.com/7DHGX87.jpg)
EDIT: Added a pic from the listing.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 18 July 2016, 16:14:36
KBParadise V80 with Matias QCSKCM Black feel really weird. They have an audible but soft "click" and it feels like there's 2 bumps, they sound like they were "half click modded" like Chyros demonstrated.
Every SKCM (Bamboo) Black board I've played with has had that "problem;" I assure you those are stock, though.I think I'll solder all of these switches under the print screen, scroll lock, and pause/break key so I have a little tester built into the board. Definitely going to invest in some SKCM orange to replace the alphas. If I collect some more switches I'll replace the nav cluster as well.
That's a pretty good idea, I would put them there too since I never use those keys :thumb: Which board are you working on, again?
I just purchased a pretty cheap Focus FK-5001 (as well as a 2nd gen IBM PCjr keyboard that will be neat just to have) that appears to be in very good condition, as far as colouration goes. As someone prefers smaller keyboards, I find it delightfully excessive. :P
Hope the calculator works! Also, would a simple AT-PS/2 adapter be sufficient for the keyboard?
It should because AT -> PS/2 is just changing the pins really, I think you'll still need an active PS/2 -> USB adapter though.
Post by: quasistellar on Mon, 18 July 2016, 22:23:00
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 18 July 2016, 23:10:42
Post by: emdude on Mon, 18 July 2016, 23:26:45
The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 19 July 2016, 01:35:25
Looks like someone pulled the buttons from a fridge.The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
(http://www.brutman.com/PCjr/images/PCjr_Chiclet_keyboard_small.jpg)
Post by: emdude on Tue, 19 July 2016, 01:57:43
Post by: y11971alex on Tue, 19 July 2016, 01:59:40
What kind of fridge has buttons? :PLooks like someone pulled the buttons from a fridge.The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 19 July 2016, 14:14:50
(http://i.imgur.com/aDpdeWL.jpg)
More pictures:
More
You can tell where it has yellowed where exposed to light. Incoming retrobright treatment?
(http://i.imgur.com/p39dOJX.jpg)
Nice finish on the plate with double-shots too!
(http://i.imgur.com/EGfDGmw.jpg)
High quality connector.
(http://i.imgur.com/MLHqzv6.jpg)
I checked the FCC ID and its from 1986 so the switches should fit the period.
(http://i.imgur.com/EZVhjGg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/p39dOJX.jpg)
Nice finish on the plate with double-shots too!
(http://i.imgur.com/EGfDGmw.jpg)
High quality connector.
(http://i.imgur.com/MLHqzv6.jpg)
I checked the FCC ID and its from 1986 so the switches should fit the period.
(http://i.imgur.com/EZVhjGg.jpg)
Can anyone tell me more about it, could I use something like Soarer's to remap some keys?
There seems to be nothing on the Copam K-430 except this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60253.0) from a while ago.
What kind of fridge has buttons? :P
Also, my Kenmore fridge has buttons :cool:
Post by: quasistellar on Tue, 19 July 2016, 14:39:54
The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
Really bad.
The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty
Post by: chyros on Tue, 19 July 2016, 15:19:34
Just picked up this NOS keyboard off eBay with Blue Alps, they feel great! I like the inclusion of arrow keys, but its going to take some getting used to the backspace. Build quality is solid, and the plate/pcb combo almost give it a bouncy feeling. Its pretty amazing to me that it has just sat in a bag for 30 years.Ohhhh, NOS blue Alps. SO GOOOOOD. Great find, congrats! :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/aDpdeWL.jpg)
More pictures:MoreYou can tell where it has yellowed where exposed to light. Incoming retrobright treatment?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/p39dOJX.jpg)
Nice finish on the plate with double-shots too!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EGfDGmw.jpg)
High quality connector.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MLHqzv6.jpg)
I checked the FCC ID and its from 1986 so the switches should fit the period.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EZVhjGg.jpg)
Can anyone tell me more about it, could I use something like Soarer's to remap some keys?
There seems to be nothing on the Copam K-430 except this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60253.0) from a while ago.What kind of fridge has buttons? :P
Also, my Kenmore fridge has buttons :cool:
Post by: E3E on Tue, 19 July 2016, 19:06:02
Just picked up this NOS keyboard off eBay with Blue Alps, they feel great! I like the inclusion of arrow keys, but its going to take some getting used to the backspace. Build quality is solid, and the plate/pcb combo almost give it a bouncy feeling. Its pretty amazing to me that it has just sat in a bag for 30 years.
Ahh yeah, I saw this one on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-COPAM-K-430-KEYBOARD-NOS-CLICKY-IBM-PC-APPLE-BLUE-ALPS-SWITCH-KEYS-/182182795964?hash=item2a6af0dabc:g:6K8AAOSwsN9W~XQ3) a while back, but I wasn't really into the price they were asking for an 84 key.
To be fair though, Leading Edge DC-2014s were going for the same price or higher lately, so it's not a bad deal at all. Congrats!
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 19 July 2016, 22:47:27
Just picked up this NOS keyboard off eBay with Blue Alps, they feel great! I like the inclusion of arrow keys, but its going to take some getting used to the backspace. Build quality is solid, and the plate/pcb combo almost give it a bouncy feeling. Its pretty amazing to me that it has just sat in a bag for 30 years.
Ahh yeah, I saw this one on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-COPAM-K-430-KEYBOARD-NOS-CLICKY-IBM-PC-APPLE-BLUE-ALPS-SWITCH-KEYS-/182182795964?hash=item2a6af0dabc:g:6K8AAOSwsN9W~XQ3) a while back, but I wasn't really into the price they were asking for an 84 key.
To be fair though, Leading Edge DC-2014s were going for the same price or higher lately, so it's not a bad deal at all. Congrats!
Actually, that was the one I bought. I saw it sold for $180 to first time around, but I guess they didn't pay. Considering the condition my AEK with oranges was :'(, I didn't mind paying a small premium (and taking a risk) for a clean board. It was eventually relisted and I got a much better deal.
A big thanks to E3E and Chyros! Those videos and awesome projects are what really got me down this rabbit hole of Alps.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 20 July 2016, 01:09:17
Just picked up this NOS keyboard off eBay with Blue Alps, they feel great! I like the inclusion of arrow keys, but its going to take some getting used to the backspace. Build quality is solid, and the plate/pcb combo almost give it a bouncy feeling. Its pretty amazing to me that it has just sat in a bag for 30 years.
Ahh yeah, I saw this one on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-COPAM-K-430-KEYBOARD-NOS-CLICKY-IBM-PC-APPLE-BLUE-ALPS-SWITCH-KEYS-/182182795964?hash=item2a6af0dabc:g:6K8AAOSwsN9W~XQ3) a while back, but I wasn't really into the price they were asking for an 84 key.
To be fair though, Leading Edge DC-2014s were going for the same price or higher lately, so it's not a bad deal at all. Congrats!
Actually, that was the one I bought. I saw it sold for $180 to first time around, but I guess they didn't pay. Considering the condition my AEK with oranges was :'(, I didn't mind paying a small premium (and taking a risk) for a clean board. It was eventually relisted and I got a much better deal.
A big thanks to E3E and Chyros! Those videos and awesome projects are what really got me down this rabbit hole of Alps.
Oh, I love when that kind of thing happens. Like, when you've got your eyes set on something, but it gets bought, but then you see it reappear because of some issue or another and you get the opportunity to buy it yourself. Yeah, I definitely understand your incentive there. For something that's guaranteed NIB/NOS like that with SKCM Blue, that's is a fantastic price.
Aww, that means a lot! :D Always happy to help inspire someone; I seldom realize I do, to be honest. The world of Alps is really fun, and I've had a great time collecting the different kinds of switches and amassing a pretty cool collection of vintages. Alps is honestly what made me consider vintage keyboards as IBM Model Ms were never something that sparked with me, and before Alps, I just didn't get the appeal of owning an old keyboard.
Vintages are great though. <3 And getting an obscure board like your own is something I really like. Gives it a unique feel compared to boards people know well or are always after. Hope you've been liking it. :thumb:
Post by: pr0ximity on Wed, 20 July 2016, 06:59:17
Could you link me the lube you found?
I have been experimenting with this lube (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BCVXUVM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), it seems to work reasonably well.
There was a conversation a while back about wet vs. dry lube for Alps. Not to dig up old discussions, but are many people here using wet lubes, specifically on linears? I've been holding off lubing my SKCL Greens because they feel quite smooth after a thorough cleaning with no lube (aside from some wet lube on the springs to prevent ping) but now I'm curious if wet may be the way to go, and I need something to tinker with :P
Would wet or dry make a difference in terms of contamination in the switches? I suppose wet may have more of a tendency to retain contamination and possible attract it easier?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 20 July 2016, 07:19:10
The reason people try dry lube on Alps is because the factory lube applied by Alps appears to be a dry one.Could you link me the lube you found?
I have been experimenting with this lube (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BCVXUVM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), it seems to work reasonably well.
There was a conversation a while back about wet vs. dry lube for Alps. Not to dig up old discussions, but are many people here using wet lubes, specifically on linears? I've been holding off lubing my SKCL Greens because they feel quite smooth after a thorough cleaning with no lube (aside from some wet lube on the springs to prevent ping) but now I'm curious if wet may be the way to go, and I need something to tinker with :P
Would wet or dry make a difference in terms of contamination in the switches? I suppose wet may have more of a tendency to retain contamination and possible attract it easier?
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 20 July 2016, 09:17:45
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 20 July 2016, 09:21:24
I was actually disappointed when my like new Japanese AEK with Orange Alps only sold for $70.
I thought I'd get more from it
Don't sell at auction. Start at your highest realistic wish price and drop 10% every few days until it sells.
Post by: jbondeson on Wed, 20 July 2016, 09:28:11
There was a conversation a while back about wet vs. dry lube for Alps. Not to dig up old discussions, but are many people here using wet lubes, specifically on linears? I've been holding off lubing my SKCL Greens because they feel quite smooth after a thorough cleaning with no lube (aside from some wet lube on the springs to prevent ping) but now I'm curious if wet may be the way to go, and I need something to tinker with :P
Would wet or dry make a difference in terms of contamination in the switches? I suppose wet may have more of a tendency to retain contamination and possible attract it easier?
One of the biggest threats to the smooth operation of Alps switches is dust so that's why most of us try and use dry lubricants, since a wet lubricant will hold onto dust.
Now, for an enthusiast I don't know how big a concern it should necessarily be since we're already talking about disassembling the switches to re-lube, so doing it again in 5 years because of dust doesn't seem insurmountable.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 20 July 2016, 19:23:48
(http://i.imgur.com/PZ0oxeP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZvSztGN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/plNWioE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xFtyptH.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 20 July 2016, 19:24:35
Post by: jerue on Wed, 20 July 2016, 22:52:25
Actually, that was the one I bought. I saw it sold for $180 to first time around, but I guess they didn't pay. Considering the condition my AEK with oranges was :'(, I didn't mind paying a small premium (and taking a risk) for a clean board. It was eventually relisted and I got a much better deal.
A big thanks to E3E and Chyros! Those videos and awesome projects are what really got me down this rabbit hole of Alps.
Would you believe me if I said I paid $60 for that board then was told by the seller it wasn't available :rolleyes: (still mad about that lol)
Congrats on the purchase even if it's horribly yellowed, I should get my hands on some blue alps sometime. Maybe it will live up to my impressions of SKCM browns, which is my favorite of the lot. Even better than greens and oranges!
Post by: emdude on Wed, 20 July 2016, 22:58:01
I... I did a thing.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PZ0oxeP.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZvSztGN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/plNWioE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xFtyptH.jpg)
Very nice! :)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 20 July 2016, 23:03:59
(http://i.imgur.com/tHyEjMX.jpg)
Mattr reminded me of my other Duck Eagle that I rarely pull out with the newer version of IBM Multistation caps, the PBT cylindrical variety.
This one uses SKCM Brown, which I do like, but the board is boring to me for some reason. Maybe I just feel it as redundant. It's hotswappable just like the original eagle, so I could thow in whatever switches, but eh.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 20 July 2016, 23:41:49
(http://puu.sh/q4ccD/36c0e1989c.JPG)
(http://i.imgur.com/yPIXTKm.jpg)
Repping my Alps love with Shadovv's awesome metal stickers. :thumb:
The NCR always had a pretty torn up back sticker, so I figured why not. I should probably take the protective plastic off of the Alps sticker. :-X
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 21 July 2016, 01:03:13
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 21 July 2016, 02:14:29
The oldest ALPS board is an odd Focus FK-2001 is from 95' made in China. It's kind of an oddity as it used SKCM Whites which is unusual for such a late Focus.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 21 July 2016, 02:21:34
Question for everyone, whats your oldest board? Technically mine is my Multistation from 1984 but complete boards mine is my FK-3001 from 1989.Alps-based? My Pingmaster from 1984. My oldest board of all is the Fujitsu N860-8282 from 1979 with tactile magnetic reeds.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 21 July 2016, 02:25:28
Question for everyone, whats your oldest board? Technically mine is my Multistation from 1984 but complete boards mine is my FK-3001 from 1989.
Out of complete boards, probably the blue Alps FAME board I have, but it's impossible to date. Maybe the FK-555 Focus board as well. I have no idea what the date is on the NTC boards. Leading Edge and Acer are from 1989.
The Bondwell and some old typewriters I have are probably the oldest. All of these have linears. Bondwell 8T PRO has cream linear, the typewriters have greens and I think they span from 1984-1986. The typewriters have black switch contact plates in them as well, signifying that they were some of the oldest SKCLs.
What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?
I totally derped when I originally typed this.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 21 July 2016, 03:57:30
What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?I have at least two from 1988, maybe even one from 1987, I need to check my spreadsheet at home xD .
Post by: Magna224 on Thu, 21 July 2016, 06:51:09
Post by: do_Og@n on Thu, 21 July 2016, 08:10:59
Cherry:
- Pretty much all of them except for modded blues
ALPS:
- Black, complicated & simplified whites, salmon/pink
Kailh blues
Fujistu Peerless
Futaba clicky and linear
Buckling Spring
Beam Spring (long time ago)
Topre 45g & 55g
Hi-Tek clicky (aka Space Invaders)
I'm most likely missing a few but that's all I can think of for now.
Out of all of them I'm at a tie between MX Greens, Simplified White ALPS, and the Space Invaders. I mostly use the greens since I can get it in a smaller format. Just waiting for a clicky matias tkl with PBT keycaps to come out and I'll hop on it.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 21 July 2016, 08:19:37
I've tried a LOT of mechanical switches so far. Here are a couple I've come across:try blue alps and never go back to cherry
Cherry:
- Pretty much all of them except for modded blues
ALPS:
- Black, complicated & simplified whites, salmon/pink
Kailh blues
Fujistu Peerless
Futaba clicky and linear
Buckling Spring
Beam Spring (long time ago)
Topre 45g & 55g
Hi-Tek clicky (aka Space Invaders)
I'm most likely missing a few but that's all I can think of for now.
Out of all of them I'm at a tie between MX Greens, Simplified White ALPS, and the Space Invaders. I mostly use the greens since I can get it in a smaller format. Just waiting for a clicky matias tkl with PBT keycaps to come out and I'll hop on it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 21 July 2016, 17:07:21
You have one of those Bondwell's? Cool! Never knew that.Question for everyone, whats your oldest board? Technically mine is my Multistation from 1984 but complete boards mine is my FK-3001 from 1989.
Out of complete boards, probably the blue Alps FAME board I have, but it's impossible to date. Maybe the FK-555 Focus board as well. I have no idea what the date is on the NTC boards. Leading Edge and Acer are from 1989.
The Bondwell and some old typewriters I have are probably the oldest. All of these have linears. Bondwell 8T PRO has cream linear, the typewriters have greens and I think they span from 1984-1986. The typewriters have black switch contact plates in them as well, signifying that they were some of the oldest SKCLs.
What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?
I totally derped when I originally typed this.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 21 July 2016, 17:57:22
Post by: emdude on Thu, 21 July 2016, 18:07:09
Post by: jbondeson on Thu, 21 July 2016, 18:08:54
I'll have to test it side by side with my Acer KB-101A, but first impressions clean whites compare very favorably to the SKCM Blues.
(Pics to come)
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 July 2016, 18:11:08
Several AEKs have been stripped for parts and the "best" one in my permanent collection is about serial number 200K, whatever that equates to IRL.
I have a couple of Northgate Omnikey 101s (I have sold all my other Northgates because I really can't stand layouts other than straight-ANSI (sorry Chyros)) into which I have done transplant operations.
I will admit to the murder of at least 2 - LE2014s for their ancillary parts, and I am not particularly remorseful (they were ugly and yellowed, if that mitigates my crime).
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 21 July 2016, 18:25:59
sent from my chess board
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 21 July 2016, 21:37:23
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 21 July 2016, 22:52:00
Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.
They are pretty comparable as far as I am concerned, I actually might like them better. Since they are unlubed it's a different kind of smoothness but they feel crisper IMO and rather nice.
I am forcing myself to love alps on a new level. Cleaning and restoring vintage alps clones.
Lol, you're forcing yourself to a level I wasn't willing to go with those switches. Are you planning on putting that board back together? If so, be wary of the controller, I have no idea if it works or not since I didn't have the cable to test it...
Addendum:
Just to update you guys, I did end up getting a DC-2014 with Blue Alps switches for $15. I have something like 400 of them now and no idea what to do with them. I am on the hunt for a board to transfer them into and I am looking for some creative suggestions. I want something with a layout that's close to ANSI, no BAE or the like. I am leaning towards a Northgate Omnikey currently but I am curious what other boards might be out there that I am not aware of. If I wanted to be really different, I would import an x68k keyboard and put them in there but then I would be left with Yellow/Green Alps that I wouldn't what to do with (and that's that I have quite a few of them sitting around as it stands). On that note, I guess an ideal board would be one with switches that I consider "disposable" or wouldn't feel guilty about having sit around :p An AT101W would be perfect if I could stomach the footprint of the Bigfoot.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 21 July 2016, 23:20:08
sent from my chess board
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 21 July 2016, 23:58:27
Not sure what I'm going to do with them yet. But I'm not rebuilding the board.
I know them feels, I used a bunch of my clone white alps to build a Planck board for a friend on the cheap. We built it all from parts at school except for the caps and the switches so it was done on the uber cheap. As for not rebuilding the board, that's probably a good idea :))
Just in case anyone was wondering, this is an excerpt of what "having a problem" looks like:
(http://i.imgur.com/RU5GZBW.png)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 00:04:52
Post by: chyros on Fri, 22 July 2016, 04:14:36
I find it pretty surprising that AT101Ws continued to use complicated Alps after the introduction of the SKBM/SKBL series years prior and even after Alps ended their partnership with Forward.Considering the scope on which these keyboards were made I'm pretty sure Alps made an ENORMOUS batch of these for Silitek, I suspect millions or even tens of millions.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 22 July 2016, 07:07:49
I am on the hunt for a board to transfer them into and I am looking for some creative suggestions.
I want something with a layout that's close to ANSI, no BAE or the like.
I am leaning towards a Northgate Omnikey currently but I am curious what other boards might be out there that I am not aware of.
An AT101W would be perfect if I could stomach the footprint of the Bigfoot.
Northgate Omnikeys are far and away the best full-size Alps boards. Nothing else is even close.
Dell AT101W is a very solid and well-made board that feels great to type on.
Get a black case and it looks a lot smaller sitting there on the desk.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 07:19:25
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 07:23:46
Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.
I have each in my two Sharp X68K boards and I prefer Greens since they are lighter but Yellows are pretty nice too.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 July 2016, 07:51:32
Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.
Here's a chart I made when testing the weights of switches out of curiosity. I used nickles and pennies to approximate the weight, so take it as you will, haha.
SKCM Brown - 75g (tactile leaf causes the stiffness)
SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
Salmon - 65g
White - 65g
Blue - 60g
Orange - 55g
SKCL Green - ~52g
As you can see, yellows are indeed a bit heavier than SKCL Greens, but they aren't all that much heavier. I'd say they'd make a good mid-ground linear switch for those who want something that isn't air light like the SKCL Greens or heavy like SKCL Browns. I always felt that creams were about as heavy as browns, but I tested the weight multiple times, and it was always 5g away.
I think SKCL Yellows are great though. I wouldn't mind using them if I had reason for building a bunch more boards. Right now, I just use what I have for spare parts for other linear switches.
I will echo fohat, my experience with omnikeys is very good. Even the avant prime I have is very solid even though it came with simplified alps. Im rebuilding mine with blue alps and a leeku pcb, ala e3e's ncr build. Hopefully someone will sell me a leeku sometime soon. Ive had an ad in classifeds for a few weeks.
That sounds great. I'd be happy to see more Alps builds come out of those Leeku PCBs. I'm sure you'll get one in time. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 12:57:36
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFg4MTA=/z/hnUAAOSwIgNXkko5/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTU3WDgxMQ==/z/ezQAAOSwsTxXkkpS/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 22 July 2016, 13:00:08
What switch is this? Came off a sharp typewriter on ebay, has nice Alps mount DS caps. Was hoping for SKCL Greens coming from other Sharp's.Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFg4MTA=/z/hnUAAOSwIgNXkko5/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTU3WDgxMQ==/z/ezQAAOSwsTxXkkpS/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Sleuthed for a little bit to find it, but it seems to be this:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_semi-integrated_dome
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 13:45:18
What switch is this? Came off a sharp typewriter on ebay, has nice Alps mount DS caps. Was hoping for SKCL Greens coming from other Sharp's.Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFg4MTA=/z/hnUAAOSwIgNXkko5/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTU3WDgxMQ==/z/ezQAAOSwsTxXkkpS/$_122.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Sleuthed for a little bit to find it, but it seems to be this:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_semi-integrated_dome
Huh, looking at that wiki page these aren't very common, that Sharp is a PA-3250. Maybe I can get the seller to just send me the caps.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 22 July 2016, 17:46:54
Northgate Omnikeys are far and away the best full-size Alps boards. Nothing else is even close.
Dell AT101W is a very solid and well-made board that feels great to type on.
Get a black case and it looks a lot smaller sitting there on the desk.
I will echo fohat, my experience with omnikeys is very good. Even the avant prime I have is very solid even though it came with simplified alps. Im rebuilding mine with blue alps and a leeku pcb, ala e3e's ncr build. Hopefully someone will sell me a leeku sometime soon. Ive had an ad in classifeds for a few weeks.
Duly noted as far as the AT101W/Omnikey stuff goes. Speaking of the AT101W/Bigfoot and Leeku PCBs, I was thinking about posting an IC to make an Alps equivalent for the Bigfoot boards. I threw together a draft and I've been debating about posting it for a while:
More
After hearing about the Leeku PCBs and how they are compatible with widely available Cherry cases, I began thinking about how a similar concept could be implemented for Alps boards. The ubiquitous Bigfoot reference design came to mind, known by most as the sturdy Dell AT101W keyboard. If such a PCB could be made available, it would offer members of the keyboard community curious about Alps switches a chance to get up and running with a custom keyboard on the cheap. As such, the primary goal of this GB would be to design and produce a PCB that could be dropped into Bigfoot-series Alps keyboards. The secondary goal would be produce Bigfoot-compatible plates that would offer a wider variety of layout options. A tertiary goal could be to add support for SMK Alps-mount switches since the keyboards that utilize those switches are typically "flimsy" (at least relative to a Bigfoot). Adding support for MX-compatible switches would not be outside of realm of possibilities as well.
FAQ:
Q: Which firmware would these boards support?
A: The goal would be to use hasu's TMK firmware.
Q: What would have to be done to get one of these boards up and running?
A: Disassemble the Bigfoot keyboard to get the plate, Attach all of the (new/old) switches to the plate, Solder in the diodes then the switches, Program the MCU, ???, Profit
Q: Why are you qualified to work on this project?
A: I am educated as a Computer Engineer which means I have experience working with PCB design tools and micro-controllers. I am by no means a professional but I am not an amateur, either.
Q: Do you have any schematics, designs, price estimates or the like?
A: Nope, this IC is simply to check if there would be any interest in this sort of thing in the first place. If it is able to garner enough interest, those things will begin to flow in.
Q: What is "enough" interest?
A: I am going to play it by ear.
FAQ:
Q: Which firmware would these boards support?
A: The goal would be to use hasu's TMK firmware.
Q: What would have to be done to get one of these boards up and running?
A: Disassemble the Bigfoot keyboard to get the plate, Attach all of the (new/old) switches to the plate, Solder in the diodes then the switches, Program the MCU, ???, Profit
Q: Why are you qualified to work on this project?
A: I am educated as a Computer Engineer which means I have experience working with PCB design tools and micro-controllers. I am by no means a professional but I am not an amateur, either.
Q: Do you have any schematics, designs, price estimates or the like?
A: Nope, this IC is simply to check if there would be any interest in this sort of thing in the first place. If it is able to garner enough interest, those things will begin to flow in.
Q: What is "enough" interest?
A: I am going to play it by ear.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 22 July 2016, 20:12:31
The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
Really bad.
The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty
OK, yup, you are right, dear lord. :-X
Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay. However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode. The lock lights flash every few seconds as well. Does anyone know what may be going on here?
Post by: emdude on Fri, 22 July 2016, 20:22:45
Northgate Omnikeys are far and away the best full-size Alps boards. Nothing else is even close.
Dell AT101W is a very solid and well-made board that feels great to type on.
Get a black case and it looks a lot smaller sitting there on the desk.I will echo fohat, my experience with omnikeys is very good. Even the avant prime I have is very solid even though it came with simplified alps. Im rebuilding mine with blue alps and a leeku pcb, ala e3e's ncr build. Hopefully someone will sell me a leeku sometime soon. Ive had an ad in classifeds for a few weeks.
Duly noted as far as the AT101W/Omnikey stuff goes. Speaking of the AT101W/Bigfoot and Leeku PCBs, I was thinking about posting an IC to make an Alps equivalent for the Bigfoot boards. I threw together a draft and I've been debating about posting it for a while:MoreAfter hearing about the Leeku PCBs and how they are compatible with widely available Cherry cases, I began thinking about how a similar concept could be implemented for Alps boards. The ubiquitous Bigfoot reference design came to mind, known by most as the sturdy Dell AT101W keyboard. If such a PCB could be made available, it would offer members of the keyboard community curious about Alps switches a chance to get up and running with a custom keyboard on the cheap. As such, the primary goal of this GB would be to design and produce a PCB that could be dropped into Bigfoot-series Alps keyboards. The secondary goal would be produce Bigfoot-compatible plates that would offer a wider variety of layout options. A tertiary goal could be to add support for SMK Alps-mount switches since the keyboards that utilize those switches are typically "flimsy" (at least relative to a Bigfoot). Adding support for MX-compatible switches would not be outside of realm of possibilities as well.
FAQ:
Q: Which firmware would these boards support?
A: The goal would be to use hasu's TMK firmware.
Q: What would have to be done to get one of these boards up and running?
A: Disassemble the Bigfoot keyboard to get the plate, Attach all of the (new/old) switches to the plate, Solder in the diodes then the switches, Program the MCU, ???, Profit
Q: Why are you qualified to work on this project?
A: I am educated as a Computer Engineer which means I have experience working with PCB design tools and micro-controllers. I am by no means a professional but I am not an amateur, either.
Q: Do you have any schematics, designs, price estimates or the like?
A: Nope, this IC is simply to check if there would be any interest in this sort of thing in the first place. If it is able to garner enough interest, those things will begin to flow in.
Q: What is "enough" interest?
A: I am going to play it by ear.
This sounds pretty neat, if you do open an official IC, I'd definitely watch it! :)
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 22 July 2016, 20:29:50
OTOH, if you intend to discard the stock switches, you could just split it off with a bandsaw.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 22 July 2016, 20:37:07
but I worry people will have a hard time dissecting Bigfoot PCBs with folded-over switches.
I have de-soldered them with as few as half a dozen bent over, and/or, most recently, EVERY SINGLE ONE !
It's like what Forrest Gump said
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 22 July 2016, 21:04:15
I totally forgot how much of a pain in the rear those folded-over leads were. When I swapped Matias QC's into a Dell AT101W (a board that I later tried to sell but gave up and just gave it to my dad instead) almost everyone of the leads were folded-over.but I worry people will have a hard time dissecting Bigfoot PCBs with folded-over switches.
I have de-soldered them with as few as half a dozen bent over, and/or, most recently, EVERY SINGLE ONE!
OTOH, if you intend to discard the stock switches, you could just split it off with a bandsaw.That being said, this is brilliant.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 21:23:41
I totally forgot how much of a pain in the rear those folded-over leads were. When I swapped Matias QC's into a Dell AT101W (a board that I later tried to sell but gave up and just gave it to my dad instead) almost everyone of the leads were folded-over.but I worry people will have a hard time dissecting Bigfoot PCBs with folded-over switches.
I have de-soldered them with as few as half a dozen bent over, and/or, most recently, EVERY SINGLE ONE!OTOH, if you intend to discard the stock switches, you could just split it off with a bandsaw.That being said, this is brilliant.
I hate when manufacturers bend the leads. My method is removing as much solder as possible, and then using the iron tip to bend the lead up enough to be straightened safely by a flat head screwdriver or somthing. If you just try to bend it up after desoldering you would very likely lift the pad with it.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 21:40:25
Post by: emdude on Fri, 22 July 2016, 21:45:24
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 22 July 2016, 21:47:39
Post by: chyros on Sat, 23 July 2016, 04:28:28
Are you using it straight or with a converter?The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
Really bad.
The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty
OK, yup, you are right, dear lord. :-X
Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay. However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode. The lock lights flash every few seconds as well. Does anyone know what may be going on here?
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 05:10:06
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 23 July 2016, 05:29:47
Steps I use and find highly effective:
1. Remove what solder you can from a number of switches (could be the whole board’s worth, or just a batch at a time) using a desoldering iron or a soldapullt
2. Touch the bent-over lead with the soldering iron (to get some heat to it) for a second or two while gently prying upward with a dental pick or other sturdy but pointy metal object. The lead should fairly easily “pop” free of whatever lingering solder is holding it to the pad/hole under the combination of light pressure plus heat. Unstick every lead in your batch.
3. Use some fine snipe nose pliers to unbend each lead, so it is approximately straight.
4. Once you have desoldered and unbent all the leads on the whole board, unscrew any screws and remove the PCB from all the switches, which will now be clipped into a bare plate.
5. (For Alps switches at least) Carefully push in the plastic tabs holding each switch into the plate to remove the switch without snapping the tabs off. If you do this carefully you’ll break almost none of the tabs.
Once you get the hang of this, it only takes about twice as long as a regular desoldering job.
* * *
If you don’t like desoldering bent-over leads, make sure to never desolder the Alps plate spring switches from an IBM P70. 4 bent-over leads per switch, all stuck down hard to the pads.
Post by: need on Sat, 23 July 2016, 08:58:43
I recently got some and they are surprisingly smooth, and when I opened them I saw lube inside.
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 23 July 2016, 09:51:21
Definitely don’t use your soldering iron to unbend leads.Thanks! I will definitely have to try this next time I am working on bent-over leads!
Steps I use and find highly effective:
1. Remove what solder you can from a number of switches (could be the whole board’s worth, or just a batch at a time) using a desoldering iron or a soldapullt
2. Touch the bent-over lead with the soldering iron (to get some heat to it) for a second or two while gently prying upward with a dental pick or other sturdy but pointy metal object. The lead should fairly easily “pop” free of whatever lingering solder is holding it to the pad/hole under the combination of light pressure plus heat. Unstick every lead in your batch.
3. Use some fine snipe nose pliers to unbend each lead, so it is approximately straight.
4. Once you have desoldered and unbent all the leads on the whole board, unscrew any screws and remove the PCB from all the switches, which will now be clipped into a bare plate.
5. (For Alps switches at least) Carefully push in the plastic tabs holding each switch into the plate to remove the switch without snapping the tabs off. If you do this carefully you’ll break almost none of the tabs.
Once you get the hang of this, it only takes about twice as long as a regular desoldering job.
* * *
If you don’t like desoldering bent-over leads, make sure to never desolder the Alps plate spring switches from an IBM P70. 4 bent-over leads per switch, all stuck down hard to the pads.
Does anyone know whether stock tactile matias switches are supposed to be lubed?All of the stock switches I have received are lubed, I think they're supposed to be that way.
I recently got some and they are surprisingly smooth, and when I opened them I saw lube inside.
Post by: emdude on Sat, 23 July 2016, 12:00:11
Are you using it straight or with a converter?The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
Really bad.
The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty
OK, yup, you are right, dear lord. :-X
Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay. However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode. The lock lights flash every few seconds as well. Does anyone know what may be going on here?
No converter, I suppose that's the issue here then? Guess I need to pick up a Soarer's or something..
Post by: chyros on Sat, 23 July 2016, 12:37:05
Your port is probably not supplying enough power to the keyboard, so yeah, some kind of converter would probably help. Regardless, a good converter is worth the investment, they're easily among my best tools.Are you using it straight or with a converter?The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.
If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.
Haha, thanks for the laugh. I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be?? :p
Really bad.
The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty
OK, yup, you are right, dear lord. :-X
Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay. However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode. The lock lights flash every few seconds as well. Does anyone know what may be going on here?
No converter, I suppose that's the issue here then? Guess I need to pick up a Soarer's or something..
Post by: emdude on Sat, 23 July 2016, 12:48:27
Post by: jbondeson on Sat, 23 July 2016, 13:12:08
(http://i.imgur.com/fW8qRP8.jpg) (http://imgur.com/fW8qRP8)
(http://i.imgur.com/vUnekzZ.jpg) (http://imgur.com/vUnekzZ)
This is all before even cleaning the caps. :D
What's also nice is that these seem to be the same manufacturer of caps that made the caps on my Acer KB-101A (which are yellowed pretty bad) so I can mix in some of the mods from the Acer with these pristine alphas and get a classic ANSI set.
Also after some side-by-side comparisons the whites are a touch heavier and more tactile than the blues, but you really need them side by side to tell the increased smoothness from the blues. I may just use them as is and not even bother trying to re-lube them.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 23 July 2016, 13:46:35
Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.
I had such a weird experience with SKCL Yellows. I once bought a cheap Zenith thinking it would have SKCL Greens and I wanted some extras. Didn't even realize that SKCL Yellows were a thing so I didn't bother checking anything from the seller. Got the board in hand and discovered Yellows existed. Every account I've read so far has put the SKCL Yellows as heavier than SKCL Greens. But from my very subjective testing, I found they were lighter. In my head, SKCL Greens were to MX Blacks as SKCL Yellows were to MX Reds. In fact they were so light I immediately sold the board. I'm not a fan of really light switches. Now I wonder if I should've tried cleaning the board up and testing it again before selling it off.
What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?
I'm terrible. I don't actually have any non-modded vintage Alps boards. I guess the oldest board I have is the Siig Minitouch I have. It had SKCM Whites in it originally but I swapped them to Orange SKCM. Not 100% sure on the date though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:06:33
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:09:22
Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me :( He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:14:59
Some other guy won for 64, I put in 63.Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me :( He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:20:07
us geekhackers need to communicate more about what were buying I guess. its a shame when youre bidding against someone else on here. if we do that, we can keep the prices low for everyone on the common stuffSome other guy won for 64, I put in 63.Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me :( He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:27:42
Yea, wonder who won it.us geekhackers need to communicate more about what were buying I guess. its a shame when youre bidding against someone else on here. if we do that, we can keep the prices low for everyone on the common stuffSome other guy won for 64, I put in 63.Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me :( He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.
So now I need a board and idk what to pick.
Right now its
ZKB-2/163-73
AEKII
Omnikey 101 ANSI
Wang 725
They all have have nice caps and an ansi layout and are built well. The AEKII is cheapest by far but isnt as special. Plus I had one previously.
Any other suggestions/thoughts ?
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:42:31
So now I need a board and idk what to pick.
Right now its
ZKB-2/163-73
AEKII
Omnikey 101 ANSI
Wang 725
They all have have nice caps and an ansi layout and are built well. The AEKII is cheapest by far but isnt as special. Plus I had one previously.
Any other suggestions/thoughts ?
I am in the same boat, leaning towards an Omnikey currently. If I could find a Wang it would be ideal but one of those probably won't pop up for a while. I have a Zenith 163-73's (like the one that went at auction) and putting in SKCM Blues with the speaker might be a little strange. As far as that one goes, I will probably keep it stock since I kind of like the Speaker + SKCL combination. sighs If I don't find something soon I'll probably start looking into building something from scratch.
It's a bummer the Wang guy bailed on you...
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 14:49:53
You can just turn off the buzzer for it, lol having two audible feedback's :PSo now I need a board and idk what to pick.
Right now its
ZKB-2/163-73
AEKII
Omnikey 101 ANSI
Wang 725
They all have have nice caps and an ansi layout and are built well. The AEKII is cheapest by far but isnt as special. Plus I had one previously.
Any other suggestions/thoughts ?
I am in the same boat, leaning towards an Omnikey currently. If I could find a Wang it would be ideal but one of those probably won't pop up for a while. I have a Zenith 163-73's (like the one that went at auction) and putting in SKCM Blues with the speaker might be a little strange. As far as that one goes, I will probably keep it stock since I kind of like the Speaker + SKCL combination. sighs If I don't find something soon I'll probably start looking into building something from scratch.
It's a bummer the Wang guy bailed on you...
Yea, he may still be there but he deleted his cl post so its not likely. Can't find a repost of it either. Sent another email inquiring about this so there is a small hope.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 15:53:37
Looks older and its not nearly as common as the AEKII. Should be a good candidate. Plus he already got all the caps off for me :P Shipping is expensive but I messaged him about it.
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 23 July 2016, 16:06:16
Ok, so I am going to go for this AEK I http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-extended-Keyboard-ADB-/222193387717?I've been eyeing that one for a while, it seemed like a good deal to me. I hope it works out for you 😊
Looks older and its not nearly as common as the AEKII. Should be a good candidate. Plus he already got all the caps off for me
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:29:42
As for me, I decided to stick my blues into Omnikey 101. Seems like the most logical candidate, being in such high regard, but having "only" SKCM White.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:32:54
Ok, so I am going to go for this AEK I http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-extended-Keyboard-ADB-/222193387717?Ill buy the oranges out of that after you strip it if you want to sell em
Looks older and its not nearly as common as the AEKII. Should be a good candidate. Plus he already got all the caps off for me :P Shipping is expensive but I messaged him about it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:36:11
Looks like a nice board. Although those orange switches in it might be fine and make you reluctant to do the switch :)Lol my SGI Granite is swapped with SKCM Oranges from a AEK :))
As for me, I decided to stick my blues into Omnikey 101. Seems like the most logical candidate, being in such high regard, but having "only" SKCM White.
Sure, was going to anyway.Ok, so I am going to go for this AEK I http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-extended-Keyboard-ADB-/222193387717?Ill buy the oranges out of that after you strip it if you want to sell em
Looks older and its not nearly as common as the AEKII. Should be a good candidate. Plus he already got all the caps off for me :P Shipping is expensive but I messaged him about it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:42:46
It seems the tactile line is:
SKCM Brown < SKCM Orange < Salmon < Cream < Black
Not sure where SKCM Green fits in though, its a branch off I feel. The keyboard from the Magnavox Videowriter comes w/ SKCM Brown but there have been some reports of SKCM Orange in those as well so that validates in some way that part of the timeline.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:44:45
Doing a bunch of wiki updating. SKCL Amber, SKCL Brown Lock and Wang 725's can come with SKCM Cream like the NeXT! :eek:skcm cream seems like its lubed though, so shouldnt it be first gen as well? is it possible it was produced alongside oranges or salmons? or am I just wrong.
It seems the tactile line is:
SKCM Brown < SKCM Orange < Salmon < Cream < Black
Not sure where SKCM Green fits in though, its a branch off I feel. The keyboard from the Magnavox Videowriter comes w/ SKCM Brown but there have been some reports of SKCM Orange in those as well so that validates in some way that part of the timeline.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:55:12
Lol my SGI Granite is swapped with SKCM Oranges from a AEK :))
Well SGI Bigfoot was my first candidate, and I still need to decide what to put in it. Probably oranges as well ;D
Post by: E3E on Sat, 23 July 2016, 18:28:00
Doing a bunch of wiki updating. SKCL Amber, SKCL Brown Lock and Wang 725's can come with SKCM Cream like the NeXT! :eek:
It seems the tactile line is:
SKCM Brown < SKCM Orange < Salmon < Cream < Black
Not sure where SKCM Green fits in though, its a branch off I feel. The keyboard from the Magnavox Videowriter comes w/ SKCM Brown but there have been some reports of SKCM Orange in those as well so that validates in some way that part of the timeline.
We have no way of truly knowing, but from what I've read in all my browsing amongst the forums is that there are separate chains for some of the switches.
What I've seen is:
____________________________________________
Alps SKCM Brown SKCM Green
_____________________________________________
SKCM Cream SKCM Black
_____________________________________________
SKCM Orange SKCM Salmon
Excuse the crude diagram, but I believe that SKCM Green and SKCM Salmon were the last NEW complicated Alps switch types.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 23 July 2016, 18:54:27
Yeah that's the one Beardsmore suggests. The evidence he has for this so far is hair-thin, though. Besides, it appears to be fairly irrelevant, as there isn't a particular obvious difference between any of them that I know of other than oranges being slightly lighter. Creams are definitely first-gen though.Doing a bunch of wiki updating. SKCL Amber, SKCL Brown Lock and Wang 725's can come with SKCM Cream like the NeXT! :eek:
It seems the tactile line is:
SKCM Brown < SKCM Orange < Salmon < Cream < Black
Not sure where SKCM Green fits in though, its a branch off I feel. The keyboard from the Magnavox Videowriter comes w/ SKCM Brown but there have been some reports of SKCM Orange in those as well so that validates in some way that part of the timeline.
We have no way of truly knowing, but from what I've read in all my browsing amongst the forums is that there are separate chains for some of the switches.
What I've seen is:
____________________________________________
Alps SKCM Brown SKCM Green
_____________________________________________
SKCM Cream SKCM Black
_____________________________________________
SKCM Orange SKCM Salmon
Excuse the crude diagram, but I believe that SKCM Green and SKCM Salmon were the last NEW complicated Alps switch types.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 23 July 2016, 22:08:42
Changelog:
Created SKCL Amber
Added SKCL Brown Lock
Added SKCM Cream Picture
Added keyboards to SKCM Cream - NeXT and Wang 725
Added keyboards to SKCM Black - NeXT
Added SGI Button box to SKCL Grey
Plus a couple other small things
The NeXT Non-ADB really needs a wiki page, we know a lot about it.
edit https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
Post by: E3E on Sun, 24 July 2016, 00:38:55
Yeah that's the one Beardsmore suggests. The evidence he has for this so far is hair-thin, though. Besides, it appears to be fairly irrelevant, as there isn't a particular obvious difference between any of them that I know of other than oranges being slightly lighter. Creams are definitely first-gen though.
It is definitely nothing that has much significance in terms defining much about the switches themselves. Just cool to try to piece them together, but that's really pretty impossible without any documentation from Alps Electric. The possible connection between Alps SKCM Brown and SKCM Green is definitely something I'm curious of.
Any of the switches seemingly used in only one keyboard model intrigue me, some examples being SKCM Green, SKCM Amber, and SKCL Cream. Makes me wonder if those were designed specifically for certain companies or what.
The wiki just got a sweet update :D
Changelog:
Created SKCL Amber
Added SKCL Brown Lock
Added SKCM Cream Picture
Added keyboards to SKCM Cream - NeXT and Wang 725
Added keyboards to SKCM Black - NeXT
Added SGI Button box to SKCL Grey
Plus a couple other small things
The NeXT Non-ADB really needs a wiki page, we know a lot about it.
edit https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
Where did you find that SKCM Creams can be found in Wang 725s? That's really interesting. :)
Also! Very nice work on the wiki page editing and creation, man. :thumb:
Post by: Quakemz on Sun, 24 July 2016, 07:15:42
It was noticeably smooth, with an incredible bump that puts Zealios to shame. To top it all off, the weighting quite literally could not have been better for me. That board belonged to Merlin64, and I really hope he brings it to the next meetup, until then, I will be drooling over that board while simultaneously looking for enough Brown Alps to fill a 60%, as well as the rest of the kit...
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 24 July 2016, 07:37:16
I recently hosted the Seattle, WA keyboard meetup and found love at first site with a custom 60% Brown Alps board. It lured me in with Winter Alpine keyset, and upon sampling, I was in disbelief. How could a switch be so perfect?Well, the best 2 soucrces of brown alps are Ibm pc convertible 5140 keyboards and Magnavox videowriter boards. as for the 60% kit, you could contact hasu and see ig he still has any alps64 pcbs, and you can cut an at101w plate to size. welcome to the wonderful world of alps!
It was noticeably smooth, with an incredible bump that puts Zealios to shame. To top it all off, the weighting quite literally could not have been better for me. That board belonged to Merlin64, and I really hope he brings it to the next meetup, until then, I will be drooling over that board while simultaneously looking for enough Brown Alps to fill a 60%, as well as the rest of the kit...
Post by: chyros on Sun, 24 July 2016, 07:42:09
You raise an interesting point, too — the weighting. I've found Alps switches, or at least first-gen ones, to be absolutely perfectly weighted. Even great other mechanical switches from the time usually didn't get it down as well as Alps did. For example Fujitsu leaf spring and magnetic reed are smoother than linear Alps, but either super stiff or incredibly light. Most Honeywell Hall effect are also very stiff which kinda mars an otherwise amazing switch design.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 24 July 2016, 12:29:42
Thanks. I found that out from Fohat. He PM'd me about a extra Wang 725 carcass he had and it had SKCM Creams! With SKCL Yellow for the lock lights. I do want to know the date on it for the wiki to better see how it fits into the timeline. It seems the Wang was around at just the right time to experience multiple generations of tactile Alps switches. From Orange, to Salmon, to Cream and to Black. Similar to the NeXT w/ early ones with Cream and later ones with Black.The wiki just got a sweet update :D
Changelog:
Created SKCL Amber
Added SKCL Brown Lock
Added SKCM Cream Picture
Added keyboards to SKCM Cream - NeXT and Wang 725
Added keyboards to SKCM Black - NeXT
Added SGI Button box to SKCL Grey
Plus a couple other small things
The NeXT Non-ADB really needs a wiki page, we know a lot about it.
edit https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
Where did you find that SKCM Creams can be found in Wang 725s? That's really interesting. :)
Also! Very nice work on the wiki page editing and creation, man. :thumb:
Post by: E3E on Sun, 24 July 2016, 13:01:49
Thanks. I found that out from Fohat. He PM'd me about a extra Wang 725 carcass he had and it had SKCM Creams! With SKCL Yellow for the lock lights. I do want to know the date on it for the wiki to better see how it fits into the timeline. It seems the Wang was around at just the right time to experience multiple generations of tactile Alps switches. From Orange, to Salmon, to Cream and to Black. Similar to the NeXT w/ early ones with Cream and later ones with Black.The wiki just got a sweet update :D
Changelog:
Created SKCL Amber
Added SKCL Brown Lock
Added SKCM Cream Picture
Added keyboards to SKCM Cream - NeXT and Wang 725
Added keyboards to SKCM Black - NeXT
Added SGI Button box to SKCL Grey
Plus a couple other small things
The NeXT Non-ADB really needs a wiki page, we know a lot about it.
edit https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
Where did you find that SKCM Creams can be found in Wang 725s? That's really interesting. :)
Also! Very nice work on the wiki page editing and creation, man. :thumb:
It seems like the Wang 725 might just be the ultimate tactile Alps keyboard, since it can come with all of the "common line" tactile varieties. Too bad it's not very easy to find. Also, PBT, in my experience really offers the best feel for tactile switches, so it's geared well for the kinds of switches it has.
How do you guys feel about caps for the variety of switch types?
For linear Alps, I prefer ABS, as I think it has a nice warm feel that kind of "fits like a glove" when it comes to the smoothness of linears. Perhaps the more malleable nature of the plastic is what gives it that feel. It's airy, but warm.
For clickies like blue Alps, I personally enjoy either ABS or PBT, so long as the caps have a certain amount of quality. I hated Acer's caps with SKCM Blue. Doubleshots and PBT are great though. I don't think I've tried any doubleshot sets that have felt bad on SKCM Blue. It's just that weird thin ABS that comes with Acer boards that I do not like very much.
Even the pad printed caps from the Focus FK-555 felt better than those--I actually enjoyed them!
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 24 July 2016, 13:12:12
My click modded greens feel best with thick abs doubeshots. with thin abs doubleshots(focus) they felt oddly hollow and strange. I stole my thick doubleshots from a sharp pc-7000 board and used focus rgb mods.Thanks. I found that out from Fohat. He PM'd me about a extra Wang 725 carcass he had and it had SKCM Creams! With SKCL Yellow for the lock lights. I do want to know the date on it for the wiki to better see how it fits into the timeline. It seems the Wang was around at just the right time to experience multiple generations of tactile Alps switches. From Orange, to Salmon, to Cream and to Black. Similar to the NeXT w/ early ones with Cream and later ones with Black.The wiki just got a sweet update :D
Changelog:
Created SKCL Amber
Added SKCL Brown Lock
Added SKCM Cream Picture
Added keyboards to SKCM Cream - NeXT and Wang 725
Added keyboards to SKCM Black - NeXT
Added SGI Button box to SKCL Grey
Plus a couple other small things
The NeXT Non-ADB really needs a wiki page, we know a lot about it.
edit https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
Where did you find that SKCM Creams can be found in Wang 725s? That's really interesting. :)
Also! Very nice work on the wiki page editing and creation, man. :thumb:
It seems like the Wang 725 might just be the ultimate tactile Alps keyboard, since it can come with all of the "common line" tactile varieties. Too bad it's not very easy to find. Also, PBT, in my experience really offers the best feel for tactile switches, so it's geared well for the kinds of switches it has.
How do you guys feel about caps for the variety of switch types?
For linear Alps, I prefer ABS, as I think it has a nice warm feel that kind of "fits like a glove" when it comes to the smoothness of linears. Perhaps the more malleable nature of the plastic is what gives it that feel. It's airy, but warm.
For clickies like blue Alps, I personally enjoy either ABS or PBT, so long as the caps have a certain amount of quality. I hated Acer's caps with SKCM Blue. Doubleshots and PBT are great though. I don't think I've tried any doubleshot sets that have felt bad on SKCM Blue. It's just that weird thin ABS that comes with Acer boards that I do not like very much.
Even the pad printed caps from the Focus FK-555 felt better than those--I actually enjoyed them!
Post by: emdude on Sun, 24 July 2016, 14:05:43
Not sure what is going on here, may be the USB 3.0 ports (but my computer only has one out of three I think?) or a power supply issue as Chyros suggested; a Model M with an SDL-AT cable seemed to work fine though, oh well. :-X
It seems like the Wang 725 might just be the ultimate tactile Alps keyboard, since it can come with all of the "common line" tactile varieties. Too bad it's not very easy to find. Also, PBT, in my experience really offers the best feel for tactile switches, so it's geared well for the kinds of switches it has.
How do you guys feel about caps for the variety of switch types?
For linear Alps, I prefer ABS, as I think it has a nice warm feel that kind of "fits like a glove" when it comes to the smoothness of linears. Perhaps the more malleable nature of the plastic is what gives it that feel. It's airy, but warm.
For clickies like blue Alps, I personally enjoy either ABS or PBT, so long as the caps have a certain amount of quality. I hated Acer's caps with SKCM Blue. Doubleshots and PBT are great though. I don't think I've tried any doubleshot sets that have felt bad on SKCM Blue. It's just that weird thin ABS that comes with Acer boards that I do not like very much.
Even the pad printed caps from the Focus FK-555 felt better than those--I actually enjoyed them!
I think I share your preferences, ABS is okay for clicky Alps, but I generally just try to avoid ABS in lieu of PBT.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 24 July 2016, 14:16:26
Brown Alps are one of the things I'm hoping to get my hands on in the future, I've heard nothing but good things about them.They’re too stiff. You might find them interesting (I’m pretty uninspired, YMMV) but they’ll be a chore to type on.
The folks who most like them are 55g Topre fans, as they have a vaguely similar feel.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 24 July 2016, 15:12:39
I like stiffer switches, and I cant wait to try brown alps. they sound so good.Brown Alps are one of the things I'm hoping to get my hands on in the future, I've heard nothing but good things about them.They’re too stiff. You might find them interesting (I’m pretty uninspired, YMMV) but they’ll be a chore to type on.
The folks who most like them are 55g Topre fans, as they have a vaguely similar feel.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 24 July 2016, 15:37:05
I've cleaned up my FK-5001 and spent some time trying to figure out what was wrong with it. After viewing this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78898.0), I tried hooking up the Focus to an old desktop via its PS/2 port and the keyboard actually worked just fine.I've had a similar issue with several PS/2 keyboards. When I enquired about it here, I was told that commonly PS/2 ports nowadays are actually emulated ports, not the same as the ports of old. They have power issues and don't expect to supply the same amount of power to keyboards or something. I've found that these boards run fine using a converter over USB, however.
Not sure what is going on here, may be the USB 3.0 ports (but my computer only has one out of three I think?) or a power supply issue as Chyros suggested; a Model M with an SDL-AT cable seemed to work fine though, oh well. :-X
Nowadays I just run everything through my Orihalcon's XT converter. I even neck up PS/2 boards to AT for it, having a hot-plug option is nice ^^ . Although I still test them over PS/2 for my reviews as well.
Post by: mrbishop on Sun, 24 July 2016, 18:43:48
I tell you what those alps clones I am cleaning are really feeling nice after their dissembly and bath.
sent from my chess board
Post by: mrbishop on Sun, 24 July 2016, 18:44:29
sent from my chess board
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 24 July 2016, 18:45:05
Using ketchup as lube as shown in picture.lmao
sent from my chess board
Post by: mrbishop on Sun, 24 July 2016, 22:00:58
sent from my chess board
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 25 July 2016, 01:20:04
(http://i.imgur.com/oFvMqKf.jpg)
Post by: BobBobFSGG on Mon, 25 July 2016, 02:03:18
1) Seems like KBParadise V60MTS is still the only Matias/ALPS 60% mass produced keyboard on the market? And the only 60% full custom keyboard with ALPS support was the Duck Eagle produced 2 years ago? There's also hasu's custom ALPS 60% PCB, but that's pretty much it when it comes to small custom ALPS keyboards?
2) Does the Matias Click and Quick Click switches have the same tactile feedback or one has greater/lesser? I just want to switch from linears (been using MX Reds for last 4 years) and i don't really like any switches Cherry, clones or Topre has to offer. If they both have the same tactile feedback, might as well get the Click one for a chance of having auditory feedback as well - provided they don't sound anything like MX Blues/Greens or Whites.
3) Are there still no recent news on aftermarket PBT keycaps from Matias or anyone else? How hard and expensive would it be to get vintage PBT keyset for the modern standard 60% layout/bottom row?
4) About Tai Hao ALPS ABS double shots - have there been only 3 color schemes produced? Black with White legends, Dolch, Olivette? And they are made from ABS, right? I believe i saw some Tai Hao PBT DS on Massdrop, probably for the MX-type mount though.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 25 July 2016, 02:20:45
Note that the Quiet Click and Linears are dampened, so they have slightly shorter throw and have a softer feel when you bottom out.
Post by: njbair on Mon, 25 July 2016, 06:00:10
This new app is pretty cool :)Nice, dude. Post it in the Prisma media thread.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oFvMqKf.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 25 July 2016, 08:21:33
I was told that commonly PS/2 ports nowadays are actually emulated ports, not the same as the ports of old.
They have power issues and don't expect to supply the same amount of power to keyboards or something.
I use a crude "dual-boot system" where I actually have a separate Linux Mint hard drive (primary OS is Windows 10) and go to it in BIOS (aka UEFI, I am an old curmudgeon) on a moderate but decent 2-year-old ASRock motherboard with a single PS/2 port.
My primary keyboards are Model Fs running through Teensies, and they are not recognized early enough in the boot process to get me into BIOS and change the boot order.
So I have to keep a real PS/2 keyboard on hand to get me into the boot order dialog.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 25 July 2016, 08:24:33
Ive never had any issue with my teensied f being able to get into the bios, but may e thats because my x79 board takes ~5 seconds to post. Soarer did a great job with bios support in his firmware though.
I was told that commonly PS/2 ports nowadays are actually emulated ports, not the same as the ports of old.
They have power issues and don't expect to supply the same amount of power to keyboards or something.
I use a crude "dual-boot system" where I actually have a separate Linux Mint hard drive (primary OS is Windows 10) and go to it in BIOS (aka UEFI, I am an old curmudgeon) on a moderate but decent 2-year-old ASRock motherboard with a single PS/2 port.
My primary keyboards are Model Fs running through Teensies, and they are not recognized early enough in the boot process to get me into BIOS and change the boot order.
So I have to keep a real PS/2 keyboard on hand to get me into the boot order dialog.
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 25 July 2016, 08:59:07
My primary keyboards are Model Fs running through Teensies, and they are not recognized early enough in the boot process to get me into BIOS and change the boot order.
Do you have legacy USB enabled in BIOS/UEFI?
Post by: Dokyun on Mon, 25 July 2016, 14:31:58
1) Seems like KBParadise V60MTS is still the only Matias/ALPS 60% mass produced keyboard on the market? And the only 60% full custom keyboard with ALPS support was the Duck Eagle produced 2 years ago? There's also hasu's custom ALPS 60% PCB, but that's pretty much it when it comes to small custom ALPS keyboards?
Basically. There's talk of custom ALPS TKLs in the future from a few people but nothing beyond the planning stage right now.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 25 July 2016, 14:55:27
1) Seems like KBParadise V60MTS is still the only Matias/ALPS 60% mass produced keyboard on the market? And the only 60% full custom keyboard with ALPS support was the Duck Eagle produced 2 years ago? There's also hasu's custom ALPS 60% PCB, but that's pretty much it when it comes to small custom ALPS keyboards?
That's about right unfortunately. There's not been a lot of custom Alps stuff out.
2) Does the Matias Click and Quick Click switches have the same tactile feedback or one has greater/lesser? I just want to switch from linears (been using MX Reds for last 4 years) and i don't really like any switches Cherry, clones or Topre has to offer. If they both have the same tactile feedback, might as well get the Click one for a chance of having auditory feedback as well - provided they don't sound anything like MX Blues/Greens or Whites.
They feel the same to me in terms of feedback.
3) Are there still no recent news on aftermarket PBT keycaps from Matias or anyone else? How hard and expensive would it be to get vintage PBT keyset for the modern standard 60% layout/bottom row?
It's gonna take a little work to get PBT keysets. I've got one but it's a mix of two vintage boards. The issue is that most vintage sets don't have the nice bottom row layout. So you either have to get a board that designed with a keyset in mind (Wang 724 and Kingsaver) or live with the bottom row caps being diff. Some people do that with their Filco Zeros.
Again the issue is that when caps are available, no one is interested in buying them. Regardless of the material and quality. Then since there's no interest, no one wants to risk making even more different things like PBT caps since there seems to be no market for them. A few SP Alps GBs have failed because people forget that it wasn't all GMK a few years ago. They're spoiled and forget that DCS is a perfectly good profile.
4) About Tai Hao ALPS ABS double shots - have there been only 3 color schemes produced? Black with White legends, Dolch, Olivette? And they are made from ABS, right? I believe i saw some Tai Hao PBT DS on Massdrop, probably for the MX-type mount though.
I thought there were a few more like red, blue, and green for Alps. They're ABS. And there's been no Tai Hao PBT DS for Alps. If they were on Massdrop they would be clearly marked as Alps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 25 July 2016, 19:07:14
Post by: Screwdriver on Mon, 25 July 2016, 21:51:28
Post by: Cerasis on Mon, 25 July 2016, 22:01:57
I'm kinda new when it comes to it, if i were to buy one as an entry what would you guys suggest?
Post by: Dokyun on Tue, 26 July 2016, 00:16:53
If I was looking to try a new ALPS board, would a Matias or Fuhua give an older ALPS feel?
Assuming clicky switch...then Fuhua. Matias switch is 10gf lighter while Fuhua is on par with SKCM white.
If you're thinking about a board with them I'd recommend Matias personally either way, outside the weighting difference they 'feel' essentially identical, difference being the Matias is built with better quality components and rated to last longer. In that regard, it's actually closer to SKCM than Fuhua.
The keyboard meet i went to previously didn't have any alps on display, though there was one keychain with an Alps switch on it.
I'm kinda new when it comes to it, if i were to buy one as an entry what would you guys suggest?
Lowest cost to ownership into the ALPS club is an AT101W which can be yours for a measly twenty five dollars. (https://www.elecshopper.com/index.php/input-devices/keyboards/dell-at101w-keyboard.html) Black alps are probably the least liked ALPS variant and with good reason, but they're easy to mod into something nicer and you can cut up the plate later for a 60% when you're ready for blues ;D
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 01:28:03
Post by: Cerasis on Tue, 26 July 2016, 01:53:14
Lowest cost to ownership into the ALPS club is an AT101W which can be yours for a measly twenty five dollars. (https://www.elecshopper.com/index.php/input-devices/keyboards/dell-at101w-keyboard.html) Black alps are probably the least liked ALPS variant and with good reason, but they're easy to mod into something nicer and you can cut up the plate later for a 60% when you're ready for blues ;D
I'm okay with splurging a little more, and maybe keep the vintage look if at all possible. Any other suggestions? I'm sorta into clicky switches, but don't mind linear ones as well.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 01:59:37
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 July 2016, 03:27:56
If I was looking to try a new ALPS board, would a Matias or Fuhua give an older ALPS feel?No. They're both quite different from complicated Alps.
Post by: quasistellar on Tue, 26 July 2016, 07:35:32
If you like smaller form factor you can try Apple's m0116. They usually have salmon but there are ones with oranges as well. Keep in mind you need a converter for it as well.
I just acquired an m0116 with orange Alps myself, and I must say they feel amazing.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:06:51
They're so ****ing good, especially when they're in great condition, most other tactile switches don't even come close :D .If you like smaller form factor you can try Apple's m0116. They usually have salmon but there are ones with oranges as well. Keep in mind you need a converter for it as well.
I just acquired an m0116 with orange Alps myself, and I must say they feel amazing.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:11:42
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:14:03
They're so ****ing good, especially when they're in great condition, most other tactile switches don't even come close :D .If you like smaller form factor you can try Apple's m0116. They usually have salmon but there are ones with oranges as well. Keep in mind you need a converter for it as well.
I just acquired an m0116 with orange Alps myself, and I must say they feel amazing.
^ This.
Orange Alps are really nice. I'd say the Cream Alps in NeXT boards are practically tied with them. At that point it's whether or not you like the weight a pinch heavier (Cream) or lighter (Orange), as the feel is pretty much the same.
The other big favorite is SKCM Brown, but they are quite different from SKCM Orange. SKCM Green pine feel incredibly similar to those (but at a lighter weight), and SKCM Green bamboo feel unique all together, almost linear with a rounded "soft" kind of tactility which I really like.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:19:44
The other big favorite is SKCM Brown, but they are quite different from SKCM Orange.
Argh. They are so elusive. There was a nice non-working IBM 5140 in US on ebay couple of weeks ago and seller was also super pleasant. But someone from Ukraine offered simply too much for the whole package with printer and everything. One of these days...
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:21:28
Post by: Cerasis on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:28:00
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:28:27
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:31:41
I guess orange or salmon switches are what i'll be after. Will definitely look into getting a m0116. Thanks for the suggestions :Da neXt non adb board is a really nice choice as well if youre looking for tactile alps. There is a seller on ebay letting them go relatively cheap (~55$), so get one while you can. cream alps are nicer than both salmon and orange imo
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 July 2016, 09:48:12
Have you gotten a converter for your NeXT yet, mike?
Post by: chyros on Tue, 26 July 2016, 10:01:40
Holy ****balls, browns are even HEAVIER than neon green? Oo They must be some of the stiffest Alps switches ever made then anoi? oOThey're so ****ing good, especially when they're in great condition, most other tactile switches don't even come close :D .If you like smaller form factor you can try Apple's m0116. They usually have salmon but there are ones with oranges as well. Keep in mind you need a converter for it as well.
I just acquired an m0116 with orange Alps myself, and I must say they feel amazing.
^ This.
Orange Alps are really nice. I'd say the Cream Alps in NeXT boards are practically tied with them. At that point it's whether or not you like the weight a pinch heavier (Cream) or lighter (Orange), as the feel is pretty much the same.
The other big favorite is SKCM Brown, but they are quite different from SKCM Orange. SKCM Green pine feel incredibly similar to those (but at a lighter weight), and SKCM Green bamboo feel unique all together, almost linear with a rounded "soft" kind of tactility which I really like.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 July 2016, 10:02:21
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 10:07:32
Yeah, I'd recommend Orange or Cream too as a tactile switch to go for. The NeXT boards are the best supply of Creams for now.I built one, but I havent compiled tmk and flashed it yet.
Have you gotten a converter for your NeXT yet, mike?
Post by: emdude on Tue, 26 July 2016, 11:27:13
Holy ****balls, browns are even HEAVIER than neon green? Oo They must be some of the stiffest Alps switches ever made then anoi? oO
Yeah, that is perhaps the only thing about SKCM Browns that I'm not sure I care for. I think I'd like SKCM Greens/Neon Greens/Limes/Mountain Dew? quite a bit. That said, it's still my favorite tactile Alps switch, with SKCM Oranges being a very close runner-up for its own distinct tactility and light feel.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 July 2016, 11:34:22
Holy ****balls, browns are even HEAVIER than neon green? Oo They must be some of the stiffest Alps switches ever made then anoi? oO
Yep! They were the heaviest Alps switch I weighed (using US nickles and pennies, so YMMV) at 75 grams. I don't have SKCM Amber switches anymore, but they might be a contender there. The next heaviest was SKCL Brown at 70 gf.
For reference, Salmon, White, and Yellow, were all 65 gf when I weighed them. Not sure if something was off, or if it was the added weight of a keycap (I see some sources saying 68 - 70 gf for these switches), but yep.
I know there are some esoteric Alps switches like the double action and heavy grey that are heavier, but none that will show up on a whole board like SKCM brown.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 July 2016, 11:35:56
Holy ****balls, browns are even HEAVIER than neon green? Oo They must be some of the stiffest Alps switches ever made then anoi? oO
Yeah, that is perhaps the only thing about SKCM Browns that I'm not sure I care for. I think I'd like SKCM Greens/Neon Greens/Limes/Mountain Dew? quite a bit. That said, it's still my favorite tactile Alps switch, with SKCM Oranges being a very close runner-up for its own distinct tactility and light feel.
The real bit that makes SKCM Green a better switch is that you can spring swap for lighter weights if you'd like, which is impossible for SKCM Brown because of its stiffer tactile leaf. That's actually why it's such a stiff switch.
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Tue, 26 July 2016, 11:40:16
Beautiful boards guys<drools>
I am currently typing on AT101W which I loooove (tested some MX boards and really don't like them as much).
Recently my collegue bought Monterey board with white alps (we thought it will have monterey switches, but it turned out for the better) and boy do I want me some of these as well :P
Sifo...i must say that want level is high within me right now...ALPS mini board....mmmm...
Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre. But I will wait patiently and maybe one day some will show up :)
I'm working on making some stuff for Alps. Far too little selection, in my opinion.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 26 July 2016, 11:40:59
Post by: emdude on Tue, 26 July 2016, 11:44:47
Beautiful boards guys<drools>
I am currently typing on AT101W which I loooove (tested some MX boards and really don't like them as much).
Recently my collegue bought Monterey board with white alps (we thought it will have monterey switches, but it turned out for the better) and boy do I want me some of these as well :P
Sifo...i must say that want level is high within me right now...ALPS mini board....mmmm...
Only problem i see with ALPS boards is the lack of novelty caps, or rather really small amount compared to MX and Topre. But I will wait patiently and maybe one day some will show up :)
I'm working on making some stuff for Alps. Far too little selection, in my opinion.
Booper's Alps mount artisans looked really nice, if I had known about her work sooner I would have tried to get in on her CMYKeydelic sale.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 26 July 2016, 11:57:18
I know there are some esoteric Alps switches like the double action and heavy grey that are heavier, but none that will show up on a whole board like SKCM brown.
EDIT: It looks like they're gone, sadly. I wonder if someone bought them or if he just decided to take them down...
Shame SKCM Greens are as rare as they are; if Matias made tactile switches like those or Browns I'd buy them in a heartbeat.I know, right? I would buy them in a heartbeat as well. I wonder how a Matias "Neon Green" switch would feel without the complicated switch plate. If he got the tactile plate's shape right would that be enough?
Anyway, I got to try a 5140 a while ago and I have been on the hunt to try/obtain SKCM Greens since.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:05:05
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:06:05
Aren't those compact SKCL greens and regular SKCM browns on 5140?
Yes
Post by: E3E on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:07:15
I know there are some esoteric Alps switches like the double action and heavy grey that are heavier, but none that will show up on a whole board like SKCM brown.Last I checked that guy on Alibaba is still selling NOS SKCL Grey (for way too much, unfortunately) and it seems like he has quite a few. In other words, someone might build a board of SKCL Heavy Greys yet.
EDIT: It looks like they're gone, sadly. I wonder if someone bought them or if he just decided to take them down...Shame SKCM Greens are as rare as they are; if Matias made tactile switches like those or Browns I'd buy them in a heartbeat.I know, right? I would buy them in a heartbeat as well. I wonder how a Matias "Neon Green" switch would feel without the complicated switch plate. If he got the tactile plate's shape right would that be enough?
Anyway, I got to try a 5140 a while ago and I have been on the hunt to try/obtain SKCM Greens since.
Well, if tactile leaves would fit into SKCM housings, then you could easily turn SKCM Salmon or White or even Black into SKCM "Pseudo Green" switches, haha. So as long as Matias were to design a switch around the unique tactile leaf shape, then I think that'd be all we'd need.
SKCL Heavy Grey is actually a different switch from SKCL Grey, which is a space bar switch. I forget what SKCL Grey is rated at for actuation force, but heavy grey is at 120 gf.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Heavy_Grey
It'd be pretty cool to build an entire board with normal greys though.
Edit: Wiki says grey is at around 90 gf. Still a hefty switch.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:20:08
Aren't those compact SKCL greens and regular SKCM browns on 5140?Yes, to clarify I liked the way the browns felt but they were a bit too stiff for me so I have been trying to find a board with SKCM Greens since.
Well, if tactile leaves would fit into SKCM housings, then you could easily turn SKCM Salmon or White or even Black into SKCM "Pseudo Green" switches, haha. So as long as Matias were to design a switch around the unique tactile leaf shape, then I think that'd be all we'd need.Matias, if you're reading this, you should try and this happen :p
SKCL Heavy Grey is actually a different switch from SKCL Grey, which is a space bar switch. I forget what SKCL Grey is rated at for actuation force, but heavy grey is at 120 gf.Interesting, I didn't know there was an even heavier alps switch. Dang... 120gf is hefty.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Heavy_Grey
It'd be pretty cool to build an entire board with normal greys though.
Edit: Wiki says grey is at around 90 gf. Still a hefty switch.
This is the first time I've seen an M-system keyboard (the board that Heavy Greys came in) as well, its rather nifty. It looks a helluva' lot like an Atreus.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 26 July 2016, 12:28:23
Still, I wonder if he'd be willing to even consider something like that. Seems like he's been having trouble trying to get his 60% keyboard and PBT key caps out the door too.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 26 July 2016, 14:00:32
Does Matias have a suggestion box or something? I'm just one person, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt. :PYea, he's still a small company. A Matias SKCM Brown/Green would be really cool.
Still, I wonder if he'd be willing to even consider something like that. Seems like he's been having trouble trying to get his 60% keyboard and PBT key caps out the door too.
Post by: quasistellar on Tue, 26 July 2016, 15:15:50
They're so ****ing good, especially when they're in great condition, most other tactile switches don't even come close :D .If you like smaller form factor you can try Apple's m0116. They usually have salmon but there are ones with oranges as well. Keep in mind you need a converter for it as well.
I just acquired an m0116 with orange Alps myself, and I must say they feel amazing.
I actually love their lightness compared to most other alps switches, and the excellent keycaps of the m0116 certainly help. They seem to have the perfect force curve to me--nice and tactile at the top with a linear, light throw the rest of the way down. I wouldn't mind them maybe being just a tiny bit lighter (I don't like heavy switches AT ALL). Some of my switches feel like they may be a teensy bit dirty though--I'm going to have to dig in and see.
Originally I bought this board to harvest the keycaps, but now I don't know. If I can get used to the layout or change it with a converter or software, I may try to restore it a bit and keep it together. I personally love having a numpad and function keys, but I love having a nav cluster even more. If I could make the numpad adjustable to be a nav cluster by default and then just numlock it when I want it to be a numpad, that would be ideal. I'm going to try the keycaps on my Infinity with Matias Quiet Pro switches and see how they compare.
I'm also tempted to get a Matias Mini Quiet/Tactile Pro keyboard, as I really like the layout on it. Might be interesting to swap orange alps onto it. . . :p
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 27 July 2016, 05:26:39
Seriously, Matias sound awful, theres a lot of clones that feel worse but most don't have the rattly high pitched sound Matias do, still better than Cherry imo though.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 July 2016, 06:14:02
Matias definitely has the capability to make almost anything. Though they'll never sound as nice as original ALPS unfortunately.I suspect it's the translucent plastic. Unlike other clones, Matias actually tried to at least mildly update the design for modern expectations. This comes at the cost of sound, I guess.
Seriously, Matias sound awful, theres a lot of clones that feel worse but most don't have the rattly high pitched sound Matias do, still better than Cherry imo though.
Matias must have thought about using a complicated mechanism for his switches, no way he wouldn't've. He consciously chose the simplified mechanism either out of cost-effectiveness or technical limitations or something. Either way, that more or less means he'll never make original-style Alps switches :p .
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 09:47:43
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 09:57:40
SGI or Dell AT101 PBT. What has the better legends? :blank:
That depends on your preferences on the font style as well as boldness.
Some SGI cap sets have legends that are pretty much on the same level as the AT101, but then there are bold versions with sharper printing that I've seen as well. I'm not sure which is more common, but I'm thinking bold printing.
I'm not a terribly big fan of the SGI's font. IMO, the AT101 wins out. I know some people dislike the AT101 because its printing isn't as sharp, but that's no problem to me.
Though, if you like japanese legends, you can always go with:
(http://i.imgur.com/tHyEjMX.jpg)
2nd gen IBM Multistation PBT caps (for the Alphas at least). They have scooped F and J keys as well. I don't have a full set, sadly. Waiting for a friend to help me out there.
They would blend well with AT101 caps.
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 27 July 2016, 10:29:01
Agreed with E3E. I really like Orange SKCM and Cream SKCM as well as Matias Quiet. I like the Matias switches but they don't feel as good as the vintage SKCM stuff.
i have some vintage Alps clones i need to test against my Matias Quiet clicks. man those vintage ones feel nice. (after i washed them and cleaned them)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 10:35:46
Agreed with E3E. I really like Orange SKCM and Cream SKCM as well as Matias Quiet. I like the Matias switches but they don't feel as good as the vintage SKCM stuff.
i have some vintage Alps clones i need to test against my Matias Quiet clicks. man those vintage ones feel nice. (after i washed them and cleaned them)
The clones are actually quite good compared to what I've tried from Matias so far. The Tai Hao APC white switches actually feel a whole lot better.
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 27 July 2016, 10:37:58
Agreed with E3E. I really like Orange SKCM and Cream SKCM as well as Matias Quiet. I like the Matias switches but they don't feel as good as the vintage SKCM stuff.
i have some vintage Alps clones i need to test against my Matias Quiet clicks. man those vintage ones feel nice. (after i washed them and cleaned them)
The clones are actually quite good compared to what I've tried from Matias so far. The Tai Hao APC white switches actually feel a whole lot better.
i'm going to have to put them next to each other and give them a try. i have a 2 key switch tester thats going to make this a perfect test. :)
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 July 2016, 11:18:41
SGI or Dell AT101 PBT. What has the better legends? :blank:The Dell IMO. I don't like italic fonts on keycaps. The SGI's are nowhere near as repulsive as those on old Apple boards, though.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 11:20:34
Finally, an opinion chyros and I differ on. I really like sgi caps, for the same reason I like the older apple caps, the funky font!SGI or Dell AT101 PBT. What has the better legends? :blank:The Dell IMO. I don't like italic fonts on keycaps. The SGI's are nowhere near as repulsive as those on old Apple boards, though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 12:42:20
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 13:16:33
TBH, the rounded legends of Cherry sometimes make me think it looks toyish, which is one reason it's not my favorite font.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 July 2016, 13:41:45
:))Finally, an opinion chyros and I differ on. I really like sgi caps, for the same reason I like the older apple caps, the funky font!SGI or Dell AT101 PBT. What has the better legends? :blank:The Dell IMO. I don't like italic fonts on keycaps. The SGI's are nowhere near as repulsive as those on old Apple boards, though.
Post by: digi on Wed, 27 July 2016, 14:11:42
(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 14:12:17
I'm using this ****ty DC-3014 with blue alps, this board sucks..Ill take it off your hands if you hate it so much :))Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 27 July 2016, 14:17:32
:thumb:
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 27 July 2016, 14:44:58
Post by: quasistellar on Wed, 27 July 2016, 15:39:57
Finally, an opinion chyros and I differ on. I really like sgi caps, for the same reason I like the older apple caps, the funky font!SGI or Dell AT101 PBT. What has the better legends? :blank:The Dell IMO. I don't like italic fonts on keycaps. The SGI's are nowhere near as repulsive as those on old Apple boards, though.
I was actually trying to find an SGI board for the caps but gave up and went for the m0116. It will work out better for me in the long run, I think, as now I have orange alps :D
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 27 July 2016, 15:43:00
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 15:45:18
I'm using this ****ty DC-3014 with blue alps, this board sucks..Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Yeah, I know what you mean, dude. ESPECIALLY with these ****ty PBT key caps.
Post by: digi on Wed, 27 July 2016, 15:46:03
I'm using this ****ty DC-3014 with blue alps, this board sucks..Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Yeah, I know what you mean, dude. ESPECIALLY with these ****ty PBT key caps.
Whoa..nice ****ty board you got there! Yours really sucks!! :D
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 15:49:05
I'm using this ****ty DC-3014 with blue alps, this board sucks..Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Yeah, I know what you mean, dude. ESPECIALLY with these ****ty PBT key caps.
Whoa..nice ****ty board you got there! Yours really sucks!! :D
You know my pain. :(
(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
These are the worst keyboards ever.
Post by: digi on Wed, 27 July 2016, 15:59:41
I'm using this ****ty DC-3014 with blue alps, this board sucks..Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Yeah, I know what you mean, dude. ESPECIALLY with these ****ty PBT key caps.
Whoa..nice ****ty board you got there! Yours really sucks!! :D
You know my pain. :(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
These are the worst keyboards ever.
How do you even get through your day knowing that you have type on those piles of trash?? You really need to save up and get a Corsair.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 July 2016, 16:17:28
Exactly! Just listen to that typing sound ffs, it's just awful.I'm using this ****ty DC-3014 with blue alps, this board sucks..Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Yeah, I know what you mean, dude. ESPECIALLY with these ****ty PBT key caps.
Whoa..nice ****ty board you got there! Yours really sucks!! :D
You know my pain. :(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
These are the worst keyboards ever.
How do you even get through your day knowing that you have type on those piles of trash?? You really need to save up and get a Corsair.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 16:18:39
I'm using this ****ty DC-3014 with blue alps, this board sucks..Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Zqs423A.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5S2d6PV.jpg)
Yeah, I know what you mean, dude. ESPECIALLY with these ****ty PBT key caps.
Whoa..nice ****ty board you got there! Yours really sucks!! :D
You know my pain. :(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0WPlIg.jpg)
These are the worst keyboards ever.
How do you even get through your day knowing that you have type on those piles of trash?? You really need to save up and get a Corsair.
Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
Post by: Aran.E99 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 17:24:29
:p
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:03:38
Post by: Dokyun on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:18:43
Post by: Aran.E99 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:22:11
Folks, not to backseat mod but can we please end this derail about bad keyboards? Let's get back on the thread topic here: our favorite switch, the mighty Cherry MX Brown.
At first I thought you were being serious but when you mentioned mx browns I knew you were joking :p
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:33:02
Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
Post by: Shikarikato on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:36:42
is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:50:57
is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
Hey man, I started with a Rapoo KX and souped it up much the same haha. I originally bought a mechanical keyboard as the last upgrade for my rig--originally wanting a wireless backlit board, but then seeing the KX and wondering what the mechanical hype was all about, bought it.
I ended up swapping in ergo clears at 62g with gold sprit springs, sip sockets, and an mx lock for the FN key.
The original Rapoo I bought got its stainless bezel powder coated black and, swapped to MX red at first, then Gateorn Clear, when the hype train for gats originally hit, sip socketed, lubed, stickered, and lock on the FN key.
Yeah, it was crazy spending that much time on the boards, but I say, if you dig something you have, why not show it some love?
(http://i.imgur.com/vXbFrAD.jpg)
That said, I sold the black one, and kept the white one just to use as backup these days (the ergo'd one) and barely use it. I kind of miss the black one.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:55:57
is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?I guess it could be likened as such although I have heard many complaints about the board itself, an issue that would persist even after changing the caps and switches. In my opinion, it feels sturdy but it's likely that I'm just an idiot... mostly for building it in the first place. I dubbed it "the Abomination" shortly after building it for a reason, haha. Thank goodness I didn't pay that much for the donor Wyse board ($5 from a local goodwill, score!!).
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:56:46
I would have just converted and used the wyse board lmaois that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?I guess it could be likened as such although I have heard many complaints about the board itself, an issue that would persist even after changing the caps and switches. In my opinion, it feels sturdy but it's likely that I'm just an idiot... mostly for building it in the first place. I dubbed it "the Abomination" shortly after building it. Thank goodness I didn't pay that much for the donor Wyse board ($5 from a local goodwill, score!!).
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 27 July 2016, 19:59:32
I would have just converted and used the wyse board lmaoThe Wyse board was rather beaten up and yellowed, in my defense. I don't think it was worth keeping together since cleaning it would have more effort than scrapping it, unfortunately.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 20:18:38
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 27 July 2016, 21:01:32
You cherry guys have almost unlimited options to go Dr. Frankenstein and unleash your monsters to the unsuspecting public. There should be a special thread to pay tribute to such abominations/pets.Lol, I just have a predilection for Linear MX-compatible switches, for my tactile and clicky needs I turn to other sources. I am kind of scared as to what might turn up in such a thread. Shivers, I dare not imagine what horrors have been produced over the years. That being said, there have to be a few Alps "Abominations" too. I don't know of any examples but I am sure at least one exists.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 27 July 2016, 21:04:25
speaking of alps abominations, somewhere on youtube there is a video of someone's linear modded skcm blues, what a waste.You cherry guys have almost unlimited options to go Dr. Frankenstein and unleash your monsters to the unsuspecting public. There should be a special thread to pay tribute to such abominations/pets.Lol, I just have a predilection for Linear MX-compatible switches, for my tactile and clicky needs I turn to other sources. I am kind of scared as to what might turn up in such a thread. Shivers, I dare not imagine what horrors have been produced over the years. That being said, there have to be a few Alps "Abominations" too. I don't know of any examples but I am sure at least one exists.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 27 July 2016, 22:16:13
This guy, huh?
Hey, if it's all ya got and you want linears, why not? Just keep the leaves and you can transplant that feel to another switch, or at least a significant portion.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 27 July 2016, 22:29:38
Post by: chyros on Thu, 28 July 2016, 03:17:02
Definitely not. Pretty sure you could show your friends a 1989 Honda Civic and not be embarassed :p .is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
I think it's much better to liken it to a Reliant Robin :p .
(http://pics.imcdb.org/0ge24/249820-Reliant_Robin_3.jpg)
In all fairness, they still sound amazing. But the originals are just unsurpassed.
This guy, huh?
Hey, if it's all ya got and you want linears, why not? Just keep the leaves and you can transplant that feel to another switch, or at least a significant portion.
That might also be the first ever mention of linear-modded Alps =o .
I found an AT101w locally and spent a few hours cleaning and modding it to be a linear board. After a few days of the parts drying, I put it together and although it felt much better than black alps, it didn't work :|Wait, what the hell did you clean it with?! xD
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 28 July 2016, 04:35:31
Haha, Top Gear did some great bits with them. I would rather have supercar parts in a Robin than the riced-out Civics people go nuts over.Definitely not. Pretty sure you could show your friends a 1989 Honda Civic and not be embarassed :p .is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
I think it's much better to liken it to a Reliant Robin :p .Show Image(http://pics.imcdb.org/0ge24/249820-Reliant_Robin_3.jpg)
In all fairness, they still sound amazing. But the originals are just unsurpassed.Morehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x2XugT50Ds
This guy, huh?
Hey, if it's all ya got and you want linears, why not? Just keep the leaves and you can transplant that feel to another switch, or at least a significant portion.
That might also be the first ever mention of linear-modded Alps =o .I found an AT101w locally and spent a few hours cleaning and modding it to be a linear board. After a few days of the parts drying, I put it together and although it felt much better than black alps, it didn't work :|Wait, what the hell did you clean it with?! xD
I never tested it beforehand. The switches were wildly inconsistent before modding and cleaning all the parts with denture tabs. Figured out why when I found a sticky, water-damaged pcb inside. Lesson learned.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 05:34:12
I found an AT101w locally and spent a few hours cleaning and modding it to be a linear board. After a few days of the parts drying, I put it together and although it felt much better than black alps, it didn't work :|
the exact thing happened to me. i don't know how i fixed it but i left it for about 2 weeks without plugging it in and i also swapped the green LEDs for red ones and it seemed to work. also turn your pc off at the wall when you plug it in as i don't think at101s are hotswappable like USB
Post by: digi on Thu, 28 July 2016, 09:12:14
Definitely not. Pretty sure you could show your friends a 1989 Honda Civic and not be embarassed :p .is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
I think it's much better to liken it to a Reliant Robin :p .Show Image(http://pics.imcdb.org/0ge24/249820-Reliant_Robin_3.jpg)In all fairness, they still sound amazing. But the originals are just unsurpassed.
This guy, huh?
Hey, if it's all ya got and you want linears, why not? Just keep the leaves and you can transplant that feel to another switch, or at least a significant portion.
That might also be the first ever mention of linear-modded Alps =o .
Why in the poop-stain would anyone remove the leaves from blues? I actually did your linear mod (chyros) to blacks on my Dell AT but on blues!?! :confused:
Post by: chyros on Thu, 28 July 2016, 11:09:06
I don't know, I'm now convinced there is a noticeable difference in feel or smoothness of ANY linear or linearised Alps switches, so doing this on blues seems wasteful xD .Definitely not. Pretty sure you could show your friends a 1989 Honda Civic and not be embarassed :p .is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
I think it's much better to liken it to a Reliant Robin :p .Show Image(http://pics.imcdb.org/0ge24/249820-Reliant_Robin_3.jpg)In all fairness, they still sound amazing. But the originals are just unsurpassed.
This guy, huh?
Hey, if it's all ya got and you want linears, why not? Just keep the leaves and you can transplant that feel to another switch, or at least a significant portion.
That might also be the first ever mention of linear-modded Alps =o .
Why in the poop-stain would anyone remove the leaves from blues? I actually did your linear mod (chyros) to blacks on my Dell AT but on blues!?! :confused:
Post by: E3E on Thu, 28 July 2016, 12:17:32
Why in the poop-stain would anyone remove the leaves from blues? I actually did your linear mod (chyros) to blacks on my Dell AT but on blues!?! :confused:
Probably out of straight up convenience. With the rest of the boards the guy has ($$), he could've sat and waited for a Zenith though. Some people just don't like clicky switches as well.
I myself have far more blue Alps boards than I do linear Green Alps ones. I got my first batch of greens (NOS too) from a trade for some SKCM Blues. Then from some assembly work I did for a friend, along with some other goodies.
Lastly, from a Sharp typewriter, which is the only actual -thing- I bought with SKCL Greens. The one Zenith I bought had SKCL Yellows, haha.
That said, yeah, he could've just bought something like an AEK II and linearized them instead. I considered linearizing some blues myself, but ultimately figured it wasn't worth it.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 12:19:26
That sounds interesting. linearized cream damped switches? sounds like a better solution than matias quiet linears. I might have to try that.Why in the poop-stain would anyone remove the leaves from blues? I actually did your linear mod (chyros) to blacks on my Dell AT but on blues!?! :confused:
Probably out of straight up convenience. With the rest of the boards the guy has ($$), he could've sat and waited for a Zenith though.
I myself have far more blue Alps boards than I do linear Green Alps ones. I got my first batch of greens (NOS too) from a trade for some SKCM Blues. Then from some assembly work I did for a friend, along with some other goodies.
Lastly, from a Sharp typewriter, which is the only actual -thing- I bought with SKCL Greens. The one Zenith I bought had SKCL Yellows, haha.
That said, yeah, he could've just bought something like an AEK II and linearized them instead. I considered linearizing some blues myself, but ultimately figured it wasn't worth it.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 28 July 2016, 12:36:56
is that not like putting supercar parts in a 1989 honda civic?Razer. Blackwidow. Chroma. ;)
For all the **** people give Razers, I enjoy my modded Tournament Edition. Vintage MX Blacks and thick, blank PBT caps make the Blackwidow Tournament Edition a rather pleasant typing experience. Why did I make such a thing? Well, I had two Razer boards from when I didn't care about quality and wanted to practice modding things :p
Hey man, I started with a Rapoo KX and souped it up much the same haha. I originally bought a mechanical keyboard as the last upgrade for my rig--originally wanting a wireless backlit board, but then seeing the KX and wondering what the mechanical hype was all about, bought it.
I ended up swapping in ergo clears at 62g with gold sprit springs, sip sockets, and an mx lock for the FN key.
The original Rapoo I bought got its stainless bezel powder coated black and, swapped to MX red at first, then Gateorn Clear, when the hype train for gats originally hit, sip socketed, lubed, stickered, and lock on the FN key.
Yeah, it was crazy spending that much time on the boards, but I say, if you dig something you have, why not show it some love?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vXbFrAD.jpg)
That said, I sold the black one, and kept the white one just to use as backup these days (the ergo'd one) and barely use it. I kind of miss the black one.
that switch profile is really sleek. damn. really really nice
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 14:34:07
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 14:35:34
I remember a few months ago I bought a board from eBay that was brand new with Green Alps and PBT keys. I ended up swapping out the Greens and selling the board though because I didn't much like the layout. My Greens are now in a broken NeXT until I get them desoldered and I have a SHARP X68K with them too. Greens are more common in Japan in my experience.what board was it? green alps and pbt caps are intriguing.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 14:36:47
I remember a few months ago I bought a board from eBay that was brand new with Green Alps and PBT keys. I ended up swapping out the Greens and selling the board though because I didn't much like the layout. My Greens are now in a broken NeXT until I get them desoldered and I have a SHARP X68K with them too. Greens are more common in Japan in my experience.what board was it? green alps and pbt caps are intriguing.
Microterm 5510.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 14:44:05
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 14:47:45
eww I can see why you didnt like the layout. Even I dont think I could get used to that.I remember a few months ago I bought a board from eBay that was brand new with Green Alps and PBT keys. I ended up swapping out the Greens and selling the board though because I didn't much like the layout. My Greens are now in a broken NeXT until I get them desoldered and I have a SHARP X68K with them too. Greens are more common in Japan in my experience.what board was it? green alps and pbt caps are intriguing.
Microterm 5510.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 28 July 2016, 15:30:44
I finally tried doing some spring swaps, and I took a linear green spring, the lightest from the complicated Alps family, and swapped it into the SKCM Green housing.
Unfortunately, much like the SKCM Brown, the actuation force was not significantly reduced.
Note that this was done with pine SKCM Green, which is very similar to SKCM Brown.
• SKCM Greens were around 70 g to bottom out, and 75g to consistently bottom out.
• SKCM Brown and pine SKCM Green have the same consistent bottom out force, at 80g. Retested to be sure. 75g gets them down at times, and even 70g for Greens, but 80g always gets them both down.
• With the SKCL Green spring, which is around 50g, the total force to bottom out the SKCM Green switch was not reduced.
With that said, I think that it's the leaf shape itself that makes the weight stiffer. Like SKCM Brown, lighter springs had no real effect.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 28 July 2016, 17:36:00
https://www.elecshopper.com/index.php/input-devices/keyboards.html?p=1
Missed out on the $150 SSK but whatever.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 17:39:02
I found this for you guys.yeah, thats cindy from deskthority's store. instead of selling things by list, she made it all first come first serve. keep an eye out on there. she always finds cool stuff.
https://www.elecshopper.com/index.php/input-devices/keyboards.html?p=1
Missed out on the $150 SSK but whatever.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 22:57:11
Post by: E3E on Fri, 29 July 2016, 00:07:21
What do you guys think of the idea of just swapping my FK-3001 w/ SKCM Blue? Doesn't cost anything...
Go for it if it's what you're itching for. Really not sure what I'd swap blues into on a vintage level. AEK, Wang, Zenith ZKB-2... Ehhh, nothing really comes to mind. I'd say Omnikey, but I'm personally not a big fan of those boards, design wise (nor am I a fan of the Wang, but I think it's more unique and likeable :P).
Anything with a metal back, like the NTC 6151, so on the off chance you have one with white Alps, haha... Nah.
The 3001 works :)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 29 July 2016, 00:25:00
I found this for you guys.
https://www.elecshopper.com/index.php/input-devices/keyboards.html?p=1
Missed out on the $150 SSK but whatever.
I've been eyeing one of the Wyse terminal boards on there with green alps. Nubbinator looked at a while back (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56549.0). Pretty nice blue an beige doubleshots, but I wouldn't know what to do with that 10 pin connector :(
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 29 July 2016, 00:53:43
What do you guys think of the idea of just swapping my FK-3001 w/ SKCM Blue? Doesn't cost anything...
Guess it wouldn't hurt, just don't hurt the board cause old Focus's are lovely.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 01:49:52
I won't hurt it ;) Looks too damn good. That board overall came out the best out of any of my keyboard restorations. And ive done it, my Model M, My SGI and my old AEKII and my Compaq G80.What do you guys think of the idea of just swapping my FK-3001 w/ SKCM Blue? Doesn't cost anything...
Guess it wouldn't hurt, just don't hurt the board cause old Focus's are lovely.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 29 July 2016, 11:34:11
Post by: E3E on Fri, 29 July 2016, 11:46:28
I've been eyeing one of the Wyse terminal boards on there with green alps. Nubbinator looked at a while back (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56549.0). Pretty nice blue an beige doubleshots, but I wouldn't know what to do with that 10 pin connector :(
I wonder what the protocol is. It might take more work than it's worth. Not sure if that's blue on the caps though.
I used to want one of these but then lost interest.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 11:48:00
Im gonna be picking one up from wingpad, sans switches. Ill post pics and try and update you guys.I've been eyeing one of the Wyse terminal boards on there with green alps. Nubbinator looked at a while back (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56549.0). Pretty nice blue an beige doubleshots, but I wouldn't know what to do with that 10 pin connector :(
I wonder what the protocol is. It might take more work than it's worth. Not sure if that's blue on the caps though.
I used to want one of these but then lost interest.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 29 July 2016, 13:03:56
I don't know why people think that Focus vintage keyboards are handsome. I think that they are kind of goofy-looking. If I didn't want to use an Omnikey, I would use a black Dell AT101W case and put pearl/pebble keys on it. In fact, I have done that, twice.Matter of taste, I guess :p . I genuinely think they look fantastic, so elegant and stylish.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 29 July 2016, 13:30:04
It is a proprietary Wyse protocol and it is blue on the switches:I've been eyeing one of the Wyse terminal boards on there with green alps. Nubbinator looked at a while back (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56549.0). Pretty nice blue an beige doubleshots, but I wouldn't know what to do with that 10 pin connector :(
I wonder what the protocol is. It might take more work than it's worth. Not sure if that's blue on the caps though.
I used to want one of these but then lost interest.
(http://i.imgur.com/iumGrHe.jpg)
There are a bunch of pictures of the board Mike is getting here (http://imgur.com/a/Hs7qr).
All in all it's an interesting key board, just not my style.
I would use a black Dell AT101W case and put pearl/pebble keys on it. In fact, I have done that, twice.This, on the other hand, sounds interesting. Do you have any pictures?
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 13:31:10
Later ones are simply too noisy, and bulky looking. Volvo could pull it off, but not Focus :) And the ones with the calculator......shudder!
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 29 July 2016, 13:35:55
Post by: E3E on Fri, 29 July 2016, 13:44:13
It is a proprietary Wyse protocol and it is blue on the switches:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iumGrHe.jpg)
There are a bunch of pictures of the board Mike is getting here (http://imgur.com/a/Hs7qr).
All in all it's an interesting key board, just not my style.
On the caps? Yeah, that is really strange. Seeing just the legends alone, I would've never imagined that they were blue. Can you see the color vividly in person? Maybe better lighting there would help illustrate the color and contrast more clearly.
I agree, but only for the early....foci? :) They are sleek and clean, with just enough of eccentricity with that strip on the top.
Later ones are simply too noisy, and bulky looking. Volvo could pull it off, but not Focus :) And the ones with the calculator......shudder!
I certainly like the Focus FK-555's style at least.
But the black FK-2001 is pretty amazing, to be honest.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 29 July 2016, 13:48:27
On the caps? Yeah, that is really strange. Seeing just the legends alone, I would've never imagined that they were blue. Can you see the color vividly in person? Maybe better lighting there would help illustrate the color and contrast more clearly.It's hard to tell in person although that might be just because these caps are very yellowed :(
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 14:53:21
Let me be more specific. I have a board with SKCM white switches, and they were scratchy and binded. So I decided to clean it. I opened up all the switches, blew air in them, cleaned them with isopropanol, and finally lubed the slider and top switch casing with PTFE. Now there are a couple of switches not working consistently. Most irritating is the T key, which didn't work at all. I opened it up, and I can get it to actuate when pressing the contact leaf, but I have a feeling that it is not always (I'll need to compare with a fully working switch). I think that pressing the contact tab "up" also helps. So I'd guess it's something mechanical and not chemical in nature. But I don't know what - is it the solder joints, the contact leaf at the top, something else? Did anyone experience anything similar?
Post by: chyros on Fri, 29 July 2016, 14:57:05
But the black FK-2001 is pretty amazing, to be honest.I'm SO ANGRY I let that one slip, I should've taken out a loan for it, I think I wouldn't've regretted it xD .
Does anyone know why an Alps switch wouldn't actuate?Have you tried a continuity test with a multimeter?
Also, how much lube did you use?
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 15:12:24
In any case, I reassembled the switch five times right now, and it seems that after some persuasion of the contact tab with a finger, I got it working consistently. I shook the board hard, and still works. Four more switches left - F4, Caps lock, ;: and /?. Only the last one of these consistently doesn't actuate.
Edit: It seems that slider is too far from the contact tab. I get consistently more success pressing keys from bottom side and pushing them up, as opposed to just pressing them down directly. The exception is the F4 key, where i need to press it from the top side down, but it only makes sense, since F keys on the board have contact leafs on the bottom side of the switch.
Post by: henz on Fri, 29 July 2016, 15:40:03
(http://i.imgur.com/aX69GIe.jpg)
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 29 July 2016, 15:43:33
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 16:15:27
just tried this thing out, the feel on this thing!what keyboard is that if you don't mind me asking?
Post by: henz on Fri, 29 July 2016, 16:23:44
just tried this thing out, the feel on this thing!what keyboard is that if you don't mind me asking?
its a monterey k108 with blue smks
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 16:33:50
Post by: emdude on Fri, 29 July 2016, 16:36:16
Post by: henz on Fri, 29 July 2016, 16:40:31
I still would like to try Monterey SMK Alps mount switches at some point, the impression I get of them is that they are better Alps switches than even SKCM Whites or later simplified clicky Alps/clones.
Tbh i like them more that skcm blues=)
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 16:42:52
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 17:01:34
Post by: emdude on Fri, 29 July 2016, 17:02:31
Post by: chyros on Fri, 29 July 2016, 17:10:50
They are better than SKCM White but not Blue imo. The click and action isnt quite as deep/thick. Still good switches though. Wish they were more common. I don't think anyone has ever built a custom w/ them.Yeah, that's what I would say as well. They're excellent switches, with a few small design imperfections but they're so nice to use. THE go-to light clicky switches IMO.
just tried this thing out, the feel on this thing!Cool what switches does it have?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aX69GIe.jpg)
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 17:30:37
Blue Alps > SMK Blue > Gateron Green > White Alps > Cherry Blue
There's several I'm leaving off but I either don't remember them right now or don't remember how much I like them.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 17:31:17
Post by: emdude on Fri, 29 July 2016, 17:33:57
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 17:44:05
just tried this thing out, the feel on this thing!Cool what switches does it have?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aX69GIe.jpg)
[/quote]
Think he said SMKs (started the whole SMK discussion)
My clicky switch preferences:
Blue Alps > SMK Blue > Gateron Green > White Alps > Cherry Blue
There's several I'm leaving off but I either don't remember them right now or don't remember how much I like them.
Still yet to try blue alps. Never see any boards with them in.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 29 July 2016, 20:49:42
WATMy clicky switch preferences:
Blue Alps > SMK Blue > Gateron Green > White Alps > Cherry Blue
There's several I'm leaving off but I either don't remember them right now or don't remember how much I like them.
Model F BS > Cherry Blue >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue Alps
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 20:54:40
Post by: digi on Fri, 29 July 2016, 20:55:20
I just can't get into the Alps key caps. They don't feel very good. I've tried all the best ones.
LIES!!!
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 20:55:52
Post by: digi on Fri, 29 July 2016, 20:56:10
I just can't get into the Alps key caps. They don't feel very good. I've tried all the best ones.
LIES!!!
false
false=truth
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:02:28
Post by: digi on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:05:24
I just can't get into the Alps key caps. They don't feel very good. I've tried all the best ones.
LIES!!!
false
false=truth
you're the reason I stick around :D
You're the stick I reason with? ....sorry that's all I got... you win.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:09:15
I just can't get into the Alps key caps. They don't feel very good. I've tried all the best ones.
The best ones are the wretched-looking ones on the old Apple AEK and AEK2. Nothing else comes close.
But they are butt-ugly and will not make a proper set.
Lack of top-shelf key caps is a major shortcoming of an otherwise excellent switch.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:09:28
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:17:23
mike52787
_________
_________
_________
:))
jk love you
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:18:24
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:19:50
petition to ban alienman from the alps appreciation thread
mike52787
Blaise170
_________
_________
:))
jk love you
Seconded :rolleyes:
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 21:27:06
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 23:57:06
(http://i.imgur.com/XMVEe2A.jpg)
The seller probably won't sell it separately though. Its all one bundle of 5140 stuff. Cool story behind it though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/162151324671
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 29 July 2016, 23:59:35
Huhyeah I saw that too. NOS brown alps. I want em. I wont pay whatever hes asking though. if I remember right it was something like 1000$.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XMVEe2A.jpg)
The seller probably won't sell it separately though. Its all one bundle of 5140 stuff. Cool story behind it though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/162151324671
Post by: Magna224 on Sat, 30 July 2016, 00:36:44
Post by: E3E on Sat, 30 July 2016, 01:28:34
I just can't get into the Alps key caps. They don't feel very good. I've tried all the best ones.
Except the Cherry profile key caps though. :P
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 30 July 2016, 01:36:13
On the topic of SMKs. Does anyone else think that the whites feel much worse than the blues?If your source for white SMK switches is an Apple IIGS keyboard, then the keycaps are preventing the switches from functioning properly.
Post by: Magna224 on Sat, 30 July 2016, 02:20:27
On the topic of SMKs. Does anyone else think that the whites feel much worse than the blues?If your source for white SMK switches is an Apple IIGS keyboard, then the keycaps are preventing the switches from functioning properly.
Yes that was the source. The blues didn't seem odd like the whites though after being transplanted. They might have suffered from it though I only used the keyboard for a little bit one night then threw it in the closet.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 July 2016, 04:27:52
On the topic of SMKs. Does anyone else think that the whites feel much worse than the blues? They are very very similar internally correct?You mean tactile white or clicky white?
Post by: Magna224 on Sat, 30 July 2016, 07:30:33
On the topic of SMKs. Does anyone else think that the whites feel much worse than the blues? They are very very similar internally correct?You mean tactile white or clicky white?
Tactile ALPS style mount. Sorry for confusion.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 July 2016, 08:38:56
The tactile and click leaves have quite different hooks to compensate for the loss of tactility inherent in Alps-style tactile leaves compared to their clicky counterparts. I only have an inverse-mount tactile SMK board but it's pretty good I'd say. Quite inconsistent though.On the topic of SMKs. Does anyone else think that the whites feel much worse than the blues? They are very very similar internally correct?You mean tactile white or clicky white?
Tactile ALPS style mount. Sorry for confusion.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 30 July 2016, 20:46:58
waiting patiently for the review of those smks.The tactile and click leaves have quite different hooks to compensate for the loss of tactility inherent in Alps-style tactile leaves compared to their clicky counterparts. I only have an inverse-mount tactile SMK board but it's pretty good I'd say. Quite inconsistent though.On the topic of SMKs. Does anyone else think that the whites feel much worse than the blues? They are very very similar internally correct?You mean tactile white or clicky white?
Tactile ALPS style mount. Sorry for confusion.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 30 July 2016, 21:37:27
It'll be a while, but it'll be there ;) .waiting patiently for the review of those smks.The tactile and click leaves have quite different hooks to compensate for the loss of tactility inherent in Alps-style tactile leaves compared to their clicky counterparts. I only have an inverse-mount tactile SMK board but it's pretty good I'd say. Quite inconsistent though.On the topic of SMKs. Does anyone else think that the whites feel much worse than the blues? They are very very similar internally correct?You mean tactile white or clicky white?
Tactile ALPS style mount. Sorry for confusion.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 31 July 2016, 03:40:14
I just can't get into the Alps key caps. They don't feel very good. I've tried all the best ones.
The best ones are the wretched-looking ones on the old Apple AEK and AEK2. Nothing else comes close.
But they are butt-ugly and will not make a proper set.
Lack of top-shelf key caps is a major shortcoming of an otherwise excellent switch.
There needs to be an Alps renaissance to encourage manufacturers to make Alps-compatible sets.
The biggest problem is that most of the legacy Alps keyboards have their own unique layout. Even modern Matias keyboards tend to have distinct layouts. Supporting all of those in a single set would be a nightmare!
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 31 July 2016, 08:14:34
The biggest problem is that most of the legacy Alps keyboards have their own unique layout.
I bought a set of the modern "Dolch-esque" doubleshots a few months ago, and they are very nice, but the bottom row is not compatible with the common vintage boards like Dell, Northgate, and Focus. Is is very sad.
Post by: ipreferpie on Sun, 31 July 2016, 09:10:05
(http://i.imgur.com/6cIYpXIm.jpg?1)
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 31 July 2016, 09:20:30
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 31 July 2016, 13:02:15
The biggest problem is that most of the legacy Alps keyboards have their own unique layout.
I bought a set of the modern "Dolch-esque" doubleshots a few months ago, and they are very nice, but the bottom row is not compatible with the common vintage boards like Dell, Northgate, and Focus. Is is very sad.
If you mean the Tai Hao set, it's compatible with the AT101W save for Caps Lock and perhaps the space bar.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 31 July 2016, 13:42:17
Does anyone have preferences on what type of ALPS switches are best used with stainless steel? Looking to build a Preonic with these thick ABS keys below but can't decide on which works best. I have a bunch of SKCM Blues, SKCM Browns, SKCM Ivories & SKCL Browns. Since it's my first ortholinear, I'm prioritizing key accuracy first with all keys being 1u. And it's portable so something quieter would be nice. And won't type for long stretches so a heavier but more accurate switch would be good. It looks to be a toss up between SKCM / SKCL Browns right now. Any suggestions? :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6cIYpXIm.jpg?1)
Ivories from the NeXT keyboards?
I favor SKCL Brown over SKCM Brown. It's got a nice weighty press that isn't too heavy (imo), but with enough weight that you have to be deliberate in your presses. Its smooth nature is something that wins me over.
It's a fun and rocky road with SKCM Brown, but for pure typing experience and probably as someone who's more of a linear lover at heart, I favor SKCL Brown.
Note that I also use Cherry profile doubleshots with the brown linears, which give it a very unique feel on top of all of that, so that might lead to more bias. :P
I should also say that you aren't going to get much quiet from SKCM Brown. Thick key caps and linear switches will give you the quietest experience.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 31 July 2016, 18:18:57
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 01 August 2016, 16:01:46
+1 those creams form NeXT's are so nice. So crisp and snappy. Much more than SKCM Orange but that might be down to condiction. Using mine right now. Same WPM as my Model M.Does anyone have preferences on what type of ALPS switches are best used with stainless steel? Looking to build a Preonic with these thick ABS keys below but can't decide on which works best. I have a bunch of SKCM Blues, SKCM Browns, SKCM Ivories & SKCL Browns. Since it's my first ortholinear, I'm prioritizing key accuracy first with all keys being 1u. And it's portable so something quieter would be nice. And won't type for long stretches so a heavier but more accurate switch would be good. It looks to be a toss up between SKCM / SKCL Browns right now. Any suggestions? :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6cIYpXIm.jpg?1)
Ivories from the NeXT keyboards?
I favor SKCL Brown over SKCM Brown. It's got a nice weighty press that isn't too heavy (imo), but with enough weight that you have to be deliberate in your presses. Its smooth nature is something that wins me over.
It's a fun and rocky road with SKCM Brown, but for pure typing experience and probably as someone who's more of a linear lover at heart, I favor SKCL Brown.
Note that I also use Cherry profile doubleshots with the brown linears, which give it a very unique feel on top of all of that, so that might lead to more bias. :P
I should also say that you aren't going to get much quiet from SKCM Brown. Thick key caps and linear switches will give you the quietest experience.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 01 August 2016, 19:53:06
Post by: E3E on Mon, 01 August 2016, 20:11:20
+1 those creams form NeXT's are so nice. So crisp and snappy. Much more than SKCM Orange but that might be down to condiction. Using mine right now. Same WPM as my Model M.
I just pulled out the NeXT again and, man, I really need to get a converter for it. It really is probably the most pleasant standard tactile switch out there, in my opinion. Not too light, not too heavy, and with a mellow tactility that's just right.
I also need to get a converter for those Docutechs too. Hasu posted about the protocol they most likely use in the Deskthority thread, but I have no idea what to do with that information.
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/xerox-docutech-keyboards-and-restoration-t13229.html
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 01 August 2016, 20:25:29
I know man, its perfect. The Wob ds caps are awesome too. Thicker than Tai Hao's. The aesthetic of the thing is great too. Small on my desk compared to my other battleships. The layout is pretty standard too. Still getting used to the ctrl key where caps usually is but other than that its pick up and go. Hasu will sell you one for $40. Pricey but it works great and is compact. Ordered a proper usb cable since right now i'm using a white usb cable from my phone.+1 those creams form NeXT's are so nice. So crisp and snappy. Much more than SKCM Orange but that might be down to condiction. Using mine right now. Same WPM as my Model M.
I just pulled out the NeXT again and, man, I really need to get a converter for it. It really is probably the most pleasant standard tactile switch out there, in my opinion. Not too light, not too heavy, and with a mellow tactility that's just right.
I also need to get a converter for those Docutechs too. Hasu posted about the protocol they most likely use in the Deskthority thread, but I have no idea what to do with that information.
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/xerox-docutech-keyboards-and-restoration-t13229.html
Using a Docutech would be badass.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 02 August 2016, 04:57:34
Got the dupont lube in. Lubed a couple of SKCM Blues. They are better but still don't feel as clean and snappy as the couple perfect condition ones I have. I'll let them sit for a bit and see how they do. It had less of an effect on the SKCL Greens. There is something up with the top housing causing friction. Lubed the slider wells.You might also want to lube the contact and slider leaves, some keyboard companies were known to specifically lube those.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 02 August 2016, 08:56:32
Got the dupont lube in. Lubed a couple of SKCM Blues. They are better but still don't feel as clean and snappy as the couple perfect condition ones I have. I'll let them sit for a bit and see how they do. It had less of an effect on the SKCL Greens. There is something up with the top housing causing friction. Lubed the slider wells.
You might also want to lube the contact and slider leaves, some keyboard companies were known to specifically lube those.
Based on my experience, here's what I can recommend:
- Soak the top housings and sliders in soapy water -or- use an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them
- Using a toothpick, clean the slots for the slider in the top housing. There is usually a lot of dust built up in them, even after soaking them. You'll want to scrape it away until they are smooth
- Using a brush, lightly brush lube on the tabs of the slider and the slots for the slider in the top housing
- Reassemble the switch, ensuring that the cutout on the slider is facing the switch plate and the two ridges on the top housing, exercising the usual caution when working on SKCM switches.
The switches are a bit mushy until you use them and/or they sit for a while, they begin to feel "regular" afterwards.
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 02 August 2016, 09:01:42
switches were completely disassembled i took the metal parts out before the water bath.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 02 August 2016, 09:04:44
the vintage switches i cleaned by using hot dish soapy water mixing them careful several times during the several hour soak. rinsing then adding water again and some denture cleaning tabs (the ones that bubble) letting that soak over night then ricing the next day (about 24hrs later) they came out really clean and minty ;DYeah, that is the right way to clean them, But the discussion were on is lubing the first gen switches, which came pre-lubed from the factory. I cleaned my skcm blues the same way, but I let them air dry.
switches were completely disassembled i took the metal parts out before the water bath.
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 02 August 2016, 09:29:57
the vintage switches i cleaned by using hot dish soapy water mixing them careful several times during the several hour soak. rinsing then adding water again and some denture cleaning tabs (the ones that bubble) letting that soak over night then ricing the next day (about 24hrs later) they came out really clean and minty ;DYeah, that is the right way to clean them, But the discussion were on is lubing the first gen switches, which came pre-lubed from the factory. I cleaned my skcm blues the same way, but I let them air dry.
switches were completely disassembled i took the metal parts out before the water bath.
i'm so sorry, kinda jumped in with my experiences in cleaning with out reading the entire ongoing at the moment. however i'll be interested in the lubing aspects as well.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 02 August 2016, 09:33:51
haha dont be sorry, you provided excellent advice as to how to clean switches. That way is perfect, and all you need to do for 2nd gen. Im not sure if lubing would affect the feel of later switches as much as the early ones.the vintage switches i cleaned by using hot dish soapy water mixing them careful several times during the several hour soak. rinsing then adding water again and some denture cleaning tabs (the ones that bubble) letting that soak over night then ricing the next day (about 24hrs later) they came out really clean and minty ;DYeah, that is the right way to clean them, But the discussion were on is lubing the first gen switches, which came pre-lubed from the factory. I cleaned my skcm blues the same way, but I let them air dry.
switches were completely disassembled i took the metal parts out before the water bath.
i'm so sorry, kinda jumped in with my experiences in cleaning with out reading the entire ongoing at the moment. however i'll be interested in the lubing aspects as well.
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 02 August 2016, 09:44:34
haha dont be sorry, you provided excellent advice as to how to clean switches. That way is perfect, and all you need to do for 2nd gen. Im not sure if lubing would affect the feel of later switches as much as the early ones.the vintage switches i cleaned by using hot dish soapy water mixing them careful several times during the several hour soak. rinsing then adding water again and some denture cleaning tabs (the ones that bubble) letting that soak over night then ricing the next day (about 24hrs later) they came out really clean and minty ;DYeah, that is the right way to clean them, But the discussion were on is lubing the first gen switches, which came pre-lubed from the factory. I cleaned my skcm blues the same way, but I let them air dry.
switches were completely disassembled i took the metal parts out before the water bath.
i'm so sorry, kinda jumped in with my experiences in cleaning with out reading the entire ongoing at the moment. however i'll be interested in the lubing aspects as well.
idk the ones i have are vintage alps clones i got from wingpad. the switches were dirty and felt scratchy. after cleaning they felt crisp and really really nice (daddy like) it was a salvage project from the start that went deeper by me deciding to clean the switches. super duper happy with the end result. now to build new things with them xD
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 02 August 2016, 09:56:58
Grabbed an Apple 658-4081 IIgs to test the switches out and see if Id want to salvage for a build at some point. But I was wondering if with a converter if id even be able to test it out on a windows machine? Even if just the alphas work it'd be fine to test.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 02 August 2016, 10:25:09
Hope this is a good place to ask, didnt wanna start another thread.
Grabbed an Apple 658-4081 IIgs to test the switches out and see if Id want to salvage for a build at some point. But I was wondering if with a converter if id even be able to test it out on a windows machine? Even if just the alphas work it'd be fine to test.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14290.0
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Tue, 02 August 2016, 10:28:08
Hope this is a good place to ask, didnt wanna start another thread.
Grabbed an Apple 658-4081 IIgs to test the switches out and see if Id want to salvage for a build at some point. But I was wondering if with a converter if id even be able to test it out on a windows machine? Even if just the alphas work it'd be fine to test.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14290.0
Thank you, saw this earlier but assumed it was for mac. I'm a dumbass, carry on! :thumb:
Post by: Aran.E99 on Tue, 02 August 2016, 10:52:34
Hope this is a good place to ask, didnt wanna start another thread.
Grabbed an Apple 658-4081 IIgs to test the switches out and see if Id want to salvage for a build at some point. But I was wondering if with a converter if id even be able to test it out on a windows machine? Even if just the alphas work it'd be fine to test.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14290.0
i can confirm it works as i did it with a IIgs. nice thing is that there is a hole in one of the rear feet where you can cut the teensy cable and feed it through then solder to the back of the ADB port on the pcb then you have a fully internal build without ruining the case etc. also, mine didn't have KRO so i sold it xD
Thank you, saw this earlier but assumed it was for mac. I'm a dumbass, carry on! :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 02 August 2016, 12:18:45
Thanks, ill follow your advice. I already soaked the SKCM Blue shells originally since they were so bad. After few hours they are feeling good. :thumb: A couple have too much lube and need to be redone. I'll take apart my best result one and see where I lubed it so I have a method. I was experimenting where to put the lube for best results.Got the dupont lube in. Lubed a couple of SKCM Blues. They are better but still don't feel as clean and snappy as the couple perfect condition ones I have. I'll let them sit for a bit and see how they do. It had less of an effect on the SKCL Greens. There is something up with the top housing causing friction. Lubed the slider wells.You might also want to lube the contact and slider leaves, some keyboard companies were known to specifically lube those.
Based on my experience, here's what I can recommend:
- Soak the top housings and sliders in soapy water -or- use an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them
- Using a toothpick, clean the slots for the slider in the top housing. There is usually a lot of dust built up in them, even after soaking them. You'll want to scrape it away until they are smooth
- Using a brush, lightly brush lube on the tabs of the slider and the slots for the slider in the top housing
- Reassemble the switch, ensuring that the cutout on the slider is facing the switch plate and the two ridges on the top housing, exercising the usual caution when working on SKCM switches.
The switches are a bit mushy until you use them and/or they sit for a while, they begin to feel "regular" afterwards.
I didn't do that for the SKCL Greens so i'll soak them. I noticed with them there seems to be some white stuff on the slider well in the top housing, its rough. Not coming off with alcohol and lube just barely masks it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 02 August 2016, 18:42:29
Thoughts? Maybe the denture tabs will do the trick, an active solvent to remove what ever is in the slider well. Damn China dirt :p The sliders themselves are perfect and require no lube.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 02 August 2016, 19:24:17
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 August 2016, 16:14:30
Matias Quiet Click switches (I had about 65 new on hand) for the primary, most used keys, with non-dampened (pine) cream Alps for the rest, with white (pine) complicateds for the half-dozen where I want to be notified by sound (Caps Lock, Num Lock, Escape, etc).
But - Damn You, Tai Ho!
Why can't you give us a space bar and Caps lock?
Post by: emdude on Wed, 03 August 2016, 16:23:41
Also, are there any currently-produced Alps key sets that DO have a stepped caps lock? AFAIK, neither Tai-Hao nor Matias make them.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 17:17:36
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 18:57:30
So I got my method down for lubing my SKCM Blues. Lube slider and switch plate with dupont lube using a q tip. Lubing the click leaf or top housing dampens the click. After a couple of hours sitting they feel snappy and nice. Not quite as perfect as my couple perfect condicton Blues but plenty better than SKCM White. It is a bit slow going though. Still dunno what to do with the SKCL Greens. Anyone have a ton of linear top housings laying around? Lol.
I don't know if it will help, but you can try cleaning the slider well walls with q-tips dipped in isopropanol as well.Been doing that. There's something up with those damn top housings. Maybe I can send a couple to Windpad for help lol.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 18:59:27
Thats a cool board!I can send you a few good condition top housings from my click modded greens, I have the original housings lying around. The greens I used were immaculate to begon with.
So I got my method down for lubing my SKCM Blues. Lube slider and switch plate with dupont lube using a q tip. Lubing the click leaf or top housing dampens the click. After a couple of hours sitting they feel snappy and nice. Not quite as perfect as my couple perfect condicton Blues but plenty better than SKCM White. It is a bit slow going though. Still dunno what to do with the SKCL Greens. Anyone have a ton of linear top housings laying around? Lol.I don't know if it will help, but you can try cleaning the slider well walls with q-tips dipped in isopropanol as well.Been doing that. There's something up with those damn top housings. Maybe I can send a couple to Windpad for help lol.
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 19:27:16
(http://i.imgur.com/OgYr5hs.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Wed, 03 August 2016, 19:30:54
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 19:32:59
Dayum son, I'm jealous, been wanting to give Ambers a go :D .
Thanks! I'm not sure what to do yet, only enough switches for a 60% but I don't have a 60% pcb atm.. I need another one of these things for a full board, lol.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 03 August 2016, 19:38:56
I'd like to take a Focus and put a set of Olivetti doubleshots on it, keep the retro look with a splash of color.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 August 2016, 19:39:47
Dayum son, I'm jealous, been wanting to give Ambers a go :D .
Thanks! I'm not sure what to do yet, only enough switches for a 60% but I don't have a 60% pcb atm.. I need another one of these things for a full board, lol.
I regret trading my Ambers for more SKCM Blue if only because I want to give them one more try after letting myself get into SKCM Brown, which I disliked initially too. One thing I didn't like about the Ambers that probably won't change is the sound of their clicks.
Digi, do you remember that one guy on reddit who had like three of these things and put his ambers in an AEK? Were you thinking of putting them into a custom or a vintage board?
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 19:50:44
Digi, do you remember that one guy on reddit who had like three of these things and put his ambers in an AEK? Were you thinking of putting them into a custom or a vintage board?
What is this "Reddit" you speak of?! :P I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. I kind of what to do a TKL but I need another 20+ switches or so...hmm.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 August 2016, 19:56:27
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:00:18
Post by: chyros on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:14:53
We don't mention that word in this thread.Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil!
no cherry?
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:16:44
We don't mention that word in this thread.Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil!
no cherry?
Can we add the word "cherry" to the foul language filter so every time someone types, it enters @(#&*! instead? =D
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:17:01
sent from my chess board
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:17:03
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:17:35
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:18:00
(*@&#! is so good
=D
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:18:16
Got this beauty in the mail today. Just need to get a cable for it.You have to tell me what that is, I want one!Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/84f0a56da64fa5e9a48a22e60a7a0f2e.jpg)
sent from my chess board
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:18:42
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:19:53
$&@"# are more better and smoother and superior tactility for gaming than ALPS which are old and not designed for gaming!1NO RAZER IS BEST !!!1!11
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:20:18
Got this beauty in the mail today. Just need to get a cable for it.You have to tell me what that is, I want one!Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/84f0a56da64fa5e9a48a22e60a7a0f2e.jpg)
sent from my chess board
IDOL Japan Corp Model KB-SMK-97
mac white alps vintage.
so heavy. so good. got to find a cable quick i'm dieing to try it out for realz
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:20:57
Where did you get it? are there more?Got this beauty in the mail today. Just need to get a cable for it.You have to tell me what that is, I want one!Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/84f0a56da64fa5e9a48a22e60a7a0f2e.jpg)
sent from my chess board
IDOL Japan Corp Model KB-SMK-97
mac white alps vintage.
so heavy. so good. got to find a cable quick i'm dieing to try it out for realz
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:21:13
$&@"# are more better and smoother and superior tactility for gaming than ALPS which are old and not designed for gaming!1NO RAZER IS BEST !!!1!11
razer is the best at marketing to gamers. i'll give them that. not a huge fan of their thin ABS caps or cherry clones.
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:21:34
Where did you get it? are there more?Got this beauty in the mail today. Just need to get a cable for it.You have to tell me what that is, I want one!Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/84f0a56da64fa5e9a48a22e60a7a0f2e.jpg)
sent from my chess board
IDOL Japan Corp Model KB-SMK-97
mac white alps vintage.
so heavy. so good. got to find a cable quick i'm dieing to try it out for realz
i bought it from Blaze
and i dont think so.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:21:53
Im not a fan of their anything$&@"# are more better and smoother and superior tactility for gaming than ALPS which are old and not designed for gaming!1NO RAZER IS BEST !!!1!11
razer is the best at marketing to gamers. i'll give them that. not a huge fan of their thin ABS caps or cherry clones.
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:22:26
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:23:27
on topic? :))
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:23:47
alps are the sh*t! :thumb:hell yeah
on topic? :))
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:23:56
ALPS is love and happiness.
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:24:50
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:25:43
are alps the hippy switches that sing koombi-ya and smoke weed? :eek:
No, thats Topre ;o
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:26:43
are alps the hippy switches that sing koombi-ya and smoke weed? :eek:
No, thats Topre ;o
oh ok. good info there. clarification is key.
all and all i have to say as much as i use cherry/clones i really do like alps. just wish i had a pile of alps caps i wasn't using like i do Cherry.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:27:02
are alps the hippy switches that sing koombi-ya and smoke weed? :eek:Alps are the curmudgeonly Comp. Sci. professor who always complains about how "they don't build them like they used to."
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:28:21
hell yeah
Just want to say that you have the manliest avatar on GH period...what to do what all that CPU power!?
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:28:27
are alps the hippy switches that sing koombi-ya and smoke weed? :eek:Alps are the curmudgeonly Comp. Sci. professor who always complains about how "they don't build them like they used to."
no wonder i like them so much. that guy was always cool as hell.
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:29:38
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:30:13
folding @ home to cure cancer obviouslyhell yeah
Just want to say that you have the manliest avatar on GH period...what to do what all that CPU power!?
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:31:32
folding @ home to cure cancer obviouslyhell yeah
Just want to say that you have the manliest avatar on GH period...what to do what all that CPU power!?
That was my 2nd guess!!
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:32:19
Cherry are more better and smoother and superior tactility for gaming than ALPS which are old and not designed for gaming!
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:33:10
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:35:13
Cherry are more better and smoother and superior tactility for gaming than ALPS which are old and not designed for gaming!
TELL HIM FOHAT!!!
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:40:21
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:41:23
i think this thread needs to be in a chat room not a forum LOLPetition to start an alps appreciation IRC
Mike52787
_________
_________
_________
_________
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:43:41
Mike52787
digi
_________
_________
_________
Rules of the irc channel, must say bad things about @#(*&!
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:45:14
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:46:04
can I join ?you were talking **** about blue alps, but you sent me a 6011 so yeah :p
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:48:55
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:49:25
Mike52787
digi
MrBishop
_________
_________
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:49:58
damn straighte3e can't have all the leeku alps fun!!can I join ?you were talking **** about blue alps, but you sent me a 6011 so yeah :p
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:51:07
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:51:57
Thanks man <3btw made a late night post office drop off since I had to ship four boxes. you should get that very soon my friend ^_^damn straighte3e can't have all the leeku alps fun!!can I join ?you were talking **** about blue alps, but you sent me a 6011 so yeah :p
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:54:44
I didn't know they were made in the US, I thought they were only made in China and Taiwan (or was it Thailand?)
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 20:55:18
Does anyone have experience with FK-2001s made in the US? I've just discovered one.Ill have to look at mine when I get home
I didn't know they were made in the US, I thought they were only made in China and Taiwan (or was it Thailand?)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 August 2016, 21:18:44
Petition to start an alps appreciation IRC
Mike52787
digi
MrBishop
E3E
_________
Added to the petition list. :P
That US made Focus sounds interesting.
damn straightyou were talking **** about blue alps, but you sent me a 6011 so yeah :pe3e can't have all the leeku alps fun!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mike, did you finally get yourself a full-sized Leeku PCB? Gimmie the deetz!
Speaking of which, if you guys wanna help an Alps brotha out, you can nominate my Alps NCR build in the Keyboard of the Month nomination thread for July. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83640.msg2233428#new
It's only nominations now, so you'd have to +1, but if you think it's worthy, then by all means. :)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 21:19:52
Post by: E3E on Wed, 03 August 2016, 21:24:18
I hope it'll fit together in the Avant Prime chassis. :thumb:
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 23:56:23
Sweet man, I can't wait to see Mike put his Leeku Alps build together. Someone else has to do it!Haha I cant wait either. Im sure it will fit in the avant prime just fine, probably minimal modding needed. Im thinking of hotswap modding it, just in case I want to swap switches later on. Since Im already pouring so much money and time in it why not go the extra mile.
I hope it'll fit together in the Avant Prime chassis. :thumb:
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:07:40
btw made a late night post office drop off since I had to ship four boxes. you should get that very soon my friend ^_^Moredamn straighte3e can't have all the leeku alps fun!!can I join ?you were talking **** about blue alps, but you sent me a 6011 so yeah :p
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looking forward to my package too, looking forward to trying greens.
Sweet man, I can't wait to see Mike put his Leeku Alps build together. Someone else has to do it!Haha I cant wait either. Im sure it will fit in the avant prime just fine, probably minimal modding needed. Im thinking of hotswap modding it, just in case I want to swap switches later on. Since Im already pouring so much money and time in it why not go the extra mile.
I hope it'll fit together in the Avant Prime chassis. :thumb:
Very ambitious! Is it be hard to unclip Alps even when hotswap modded? .
BTW, how has everyone in this thread let Mike get away with "BS is the BeSt" for this long?
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:10:56
shouldnt be too bad, the retaining clips on my blue alps are pretty ****ed up because the plate had been shifted down at one point apparently. And as for the BS is the BeSt I love capacitive bs, is that a crime? :)) :Dbtw made a late night post office drop off since I had to ship four boxes. you should get that very soon my friend ^_^Moredamn straighte3e can't have all the leeku alps fun!!can I join ?you were talking **** about blue alps, but you sent me a 6011 so yeah :p
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looking forward to my package too, looking forward to trying greens.Sweet man, I can't wait to see Mike put his Leeku Alps build together. Someone else has to do it!Haha I cant wait either. Im sure it will fit in the avant prime just fine, probably minimal modding needed. Im thinking of hotswap modding it, just in case I want to swap switches later on. Since Im already pouring so much money and time in it why not go the extra mile.
I hope it'll fit together in the Avant Prime chassis. :thumb:
Very ambitious! Is it be hard to unclip Alps even when hotswap modded? .
BTW, how has everyone in this thread let Mike get away with "BS is the BeSt" for this long?
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:16:33
Sweet man, I can't wait to see Mike put his Leeku Alps build together. Someone else has to do it!Haha I cant wait either. Im sure it will fit in the avant prime just fine, probably minimal modding needed. Im thinking of hotswap modding it, just in case I want to swap switches later on. Since Im already pouring so much money and time in it why not go the extra mile.
I hope it'll fit together in the Avant Prime chassis. :thumb:
Here's what you'll need:
For drilling, this is what I've used: https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-220-01-Rotary-Tool-Station/dp/B00068P48O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470287496&sr=8-1&keywords=dremel+drill+press
bits: https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-628-01-Piece-Drill-Bit/dp/B0000302Z3/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470287518&sr=8-1&keywords=dremel+drill+bits
Sockets:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/8134-HC-12P2/8134-HC-12P2-ND/2188089 for switches, though you might want to go tin to save some cash
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/6-1437514-6/A107431-ND/2135765 for the LEDs; same as above applies
In general, just check out my build log on my hotswap Eagle for a good idea of all that you'll be in for: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.msg1952047#msg1952047
Fair warning, it is a lot of work and you will need a heaping helping of patience to get it down. Buying a conductive ink pen for repairing traces is a good idea, because you will ruin some traces and pads. Make sure to not accidentally bridge the ground plane with any connections to the switches. This can be a huge pain in the ass, but I DID look at the Leeku PCB before I built it and I think it'd be easier than most to hotswap mod. The traces are out of the way, so you won't have any crazy repairs or reroutes to do. Not many at least.
Also, use a blunt soldering tip to insert the sockets with heat as it makes the PCB more malleable. I tested out the sockets on a vintage PCB first. It snapped it. Modern double-sided PCBs should be safe, but use caution; none of the korean PCBs I've done this on have had an issue where it seemed they'd break.
Some kind of glue like Loctite Ultra Control Gel is a good idea for securing sockets. I actually used Aves Apoxie Sculpt for this for the Eagles and Loctite for the Orion v2 and Lightpad. The epoxy will ensure a pretty much permanent hold. The glue works well, but this epoxy clay is good for building up more material for the sockets to adhere to, which is good for the MXAlps kinds of PCBs that have a bit of empty space in account for Cherry MX switches.
You can expect to pay ~ $130. I just added 220 of each socket type and it totalled $135 before shipping.
I decided against it for my NCR because this was a board I was damn sure of when I built it, haha. The Orion probably won't ever be anything but SKCM Blue, but admittedly, I hot swapped that one just because I thought the gold sockets would look really awesome with the acrylic bottom.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:18:22
shouldnt be too bad, the retaining clips on my blue alps are pretty ****ed up because the plate had been shifted down at one point apparently. And as for the BS is the BeSt I love capacitive bs, is that a crime? :)) :D
Once those tabs are loosened or broken off, it does make removing them a lot easier, but it will require quite a bit of wiggle work to remove them for the most part. It can be a real pain sometimes, but you truly cannot beat the convenience of replacing and changing out switches at will. :thumb:
I always have a huge grin on my face after swapping a switch. :)
Also.
Alps4lyfe
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:27:22
hold on, I just had a revelation. what is stopping me from just buying a cherry only leeku if Im gonna hot swap modshouldnt be too bad, the retaining clips on my blue alps are pretty ****ed up because the plate had been shifted down at one point apparently. And as for the BS is the BeSt I love capacitive bs, is that a crime? :)) :D
Once those tabs are loosened or broken off, it does make removing them a lot easier, but it will require quite a bit of wiggle work to remove them for the most part. It can be a real pain sometimes, but you truly cannot beat the convenience of replacing and changing out switches at will. :thumb:
I always have a huge grin on my face after swapping a switch. :)
Also.
Alps4lyfe
anyway? It would be alot more work, but it would be cheaper and easier to source.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:42:16
hold on, I just had a revelation. what is stopping me from just buying a cherry only leeku if Im gonna hot swap modshouldnt be too bad, the retaining clips on my blue alps are pretty ****ed up because the plate had been shifted down at one point apparently. And as for the BS is the BeSt I love capacitive bs, is that a crime? :)) :D
Once those tabs are loosened or broken off, it does make removing them a lot easier, but it will require quite a bit of wiggle work to remove them for the most part. It can be a real pain sometimes, but you truly cannot beat the convenience of replacing and changing out switches at will. :thumb:
I always have a huge grin on my face after swapping a switch. :)
Also.
Alps4lyfe
anyway? It would be alot more work, but it would be cheaper and easier to source.
A hotswap mod with Cherry would actually be a lot easier and not nearly as hard as an Alps-based hot swap mod since you would not need to do any drilling; the sockets for Cherry MX fit right into the vias. There's no need to bore them out. Alps pins are wider, and so they require that additional space to actually fit.
By just buying a Cherry MX Leeku PCB, you'd side-step a lot of pain and misery and also risk and the frustration of trying to find (and potentially ruin) the Alps compatible PCB, unused at that.
Here are the sockets for Cherry MX:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/8134-HC-8P3/A114359-ND/1151726 Switches
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/6-1437514-7/6-1437514-7-ND/2135766 LEDs
There are other socket options too, but these are flush sockets, which are nice to have.
If you did this, you'd pretty much be doing the opposite of what I was doing and you'd be putting Cherry in an Alps board. That'd be pretty funny. :P
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:46:01
Do you think the holes I would have to drill for the alps pins would affect any traces? Depending on how the board is made I may need to insulate the holes before inserting the sockets to advoid hitting the ground plane. would either of the cherry holes line up with one of the alps pins?hold on, I just had a revelation. what is stopping me from just buying a cherry only leeku if Im gonna hot swap modshouldnt be too bad, the retaining clips on my blue alps are pretty ****ed up because the plate had been shifted down at one point apparently. And as for the BS is the BeSt I love capacitive bs, is that a crime? :)) :D
Once those tabs are loosened or broken off, it does make removing them a lot easier, but it will require quite a bit of wiggle work to remove them for the most part. It can be a real pain sometimes, but you truly cannot beat the convenience of replacing and changing out switches at will. :thumb:
I always have a huge grin on my face after swapping a switch. :)
Also.
Alps4lyfe
anyway? It would be alot more work, but it would be cheaper and easier to source.
A hotswap mod with Cherry would actually be a lot easier and not nearly as hard as an Alps-based hot swap mod since you would not need to do any drilling; the sockets for Cherry MX fit right into the vias. There's no need to bore them out. Alps pins are wider, and so they require that additional space to actually fit.
By just buying a Cherry MX Leeku PCB, you'd side-step a lot of pain and misery and also risk and the frustration of trying to find the Alps compatible PCB, unused at that.
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 04 August 2016, 00:50:31
The biggest problem is that most of the legacy Alps keyboards have their own unique layout.
I bought a set of the modern "Dolch-esque" doubleshots a few months ago, and they are very nice, but the bottom row is not compatible with the common vintage boards like Dell, Northgate, and Focus. Is is very sad.
The Tai Hao set?
I bought one too (GB support!) and I don't even have an Alps keyboard :))
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 01:02:02
Do you think the holes I would have to drill for the alps pins would affect any traces? Depending on how the board is made I may need to insulate the holes before inserting the sockets to advoid hitting the ground plane. would either of the cherry holes line up with one of the alps pins?
Generally, they won't interfere with the ground plane as long as the drilling stays within the circumference of the pad. For entirely new positions I had to drill for my Eagles, as the Alps positions did not include the 6.25u bottom row, etc, I used a mill bit to grind away the mask and copper beneath so it was just the PCB substrate left behind, then inserted the sockets and created routes to them with the conductive ink.
You're probably going have at least one issue when doing the mod. I have with every single hot swap mod I've done, and it required troubleshooting but it all ultimately worked out. It's not a simple mod to do for Alps.
As far as messing with the traces goes, maybe, but way the traces were routed, they seemed out of the way from potential drilling issues. I'd still get the conductive ink to be safe.
Post by: Magna224 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 02:19:57
Does anyone have experience with FK-2001s made in the US? I've just discovered one.
I didn't know they were made in the US, I thought they were only made in China and Taiwan (or was it Thailand?)
Very interesting. I have had a few but they've all been Taiwan/China like you said. I wonder the quality of a US made one or what switches it would have. The ones from the late 80s with blue ALPS are pretty solid keyboards while the Chinese feel just as cheap as a Chicony (Maybe a little better ;)).
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 04 August 2016, 02:46:03
The Focus is really a wheel of fortune but its a forgiving one. You either get SKCM Blue or OA2 clones, which are pretty good as far as clones go! Or those Omrons but I could not find any information on them.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 03:00:44
It's from 93' but I had one made in China from 95'!that used SKCM White. It's totally a gamble!My FK-3001 was made in mid-late 89 and has SKCM White, made in Taiwain. Must have just missed the cutoff for SKCM Blue.
The Focus is really a wheel of fortune but its a forgiving one. You either get SKCM Blue or OA2 clones, which are pretty good as far as clones go! Or those Omrons but I could not find any information on them.
Oh, I had one of those Omron Focus's, sold it to Chyros. Its the same one as in his FK-727 video in fact. They came on early pre 2001 boards like the FK 555, 727, 747 etc. Most of those have SKCM Blues but of course I ended up with the rare one lol. Made in 87.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 04 August 2016, 03:17:07
ALPS is like the embodyment of the phrase "they don't build them like they used to"Yeah definitely xD . That's a perfect description in fact xD .
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 03:59:10
There was a Xerox 6085 on eBay available, but someone got it. It has more switches than IBM 5140, and is a keyboard in its own right. However, IBM could be made to work relatively easy, and for Xerox it would either need to be hand-wired or "scrapped" for switches. I hate choices like this.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 04:06:23
It's from 93' but I had one made in China from 95'!that used SKCM White. It's totally a gamble!My FK-3001 was made in mid-late 89 and has SKCM White, made in Taiwain. Must have just missed the cutoff for SKCM Blue.
The Focus is really a wheel of fortune but its a forgiving one. You either get SKCM Blue or OA2 clones, which are pretty good as far as clones go! Or those Omrons but I could not find any information on them.
Oh, I had one of those Omron Focus's, sold it to Chyros. Its the same one as in his FK-727 video in fact. They came on early pre 2001 boards like the FK 555, 727, 747 etc. Most of those have SKCM Blues but of course I ended up with the rare one lol. Made in 87.
I was tempted to buy this, but I decided against it. Alps only for me. :P
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 04 August 2016, 04:34:14
feature=youtu.be
Post by: bocahgundul on Thu, 04 August 2016, 05:35:12
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 15:10:06
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 15:45:01
(http://i.imgur.com/aPLPLpI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lPJlGPm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/anQF59K.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oJsCWTa.jpg)
As for the irc, Ill be working on it sometime soon. Everyone is welcome :D
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 15:52:24
Post by: digi on Thu, 04 August 2016, 15:53:59
Ooooh. Old focus boards. so delicious. This is the 2nd taobao board I received, but the first I ordered. Not sure how that works, but ok :)) It has some cool spherical-ish caps, but they are pad printed thick ABS. The legends are worn off on a few keys though unfortunately. Does anyone know how to remove pad printed legends? these could make cool spherical blanks.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aPLPLpI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lPJlGPm.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/anQF59K.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oJsCWTa.jpg)
As for the irc, Ill be working on it sometime soon. Everyone is welcome :D
Nice get! Blues in a Focus, you don't see many of those..
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 15:57:14
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:01:49
I'd like to see those spherical could-be blanks, good fellow. :)Here you go.
(http://i.imgur.com/IBcUref.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DN89Kz9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1BTcnDy.jpg)
These would be really sweet caps if the legends werent so worn.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:02:46
sent from my chess board
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:17:18
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:22:21
does it have cutouts for the 103 key layout? its normal ansi not split right shift right?Ooooh. Old focus boards. so delicious. This is the 2nd taobao board I received, but the first I ordered. Not sure how that works, but ok :)) It has some cool spherical-ish caps, but they are pad printed thick ABS. The legends are worn off on a few keys though unfortunately. Does anyone know how to remove pad printed legends? these could make cool spherical blanks.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aPLPLpI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lPJlGPm.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/anQF59K.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oJsCWTa.jpg)
As for the irc, Ill be working on it sometime soon. Everyone is welcome :D
looks to be the same plate as the acer I gave you, but the one I sent doesn't have rust ^-^
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:26:01
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:29:06
But does it have cutouts where the winkeys should go?does it have cutouts for the 103 key layout? its normal ansi not split right shift right?Ooooh. Old focus boards. so delicious. This is the 2nd taobao board I received, but the first I ordered. Not sure how that works, but ok :)) It has some cool spherical-ish caps, but they are pad printed thick ABS. The legends are worn off on a few keys though unfortunately. Does anyone know how to remove pad printed legends? these could make cool spherical blanks.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aPLPLpI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lPJlGPm.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/anQF59K.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oJsCWTa.jpg)
As for the irc, Ill be working on it sometime soon. Everyone is welcome :D
looks to be the same plate as the acer I gave you, but the one I sent doesn't have rust ^-^
ah didn't notice the shift. Yes it's normal ANSI WKL layout.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:30:11
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:37:23
yessweet
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 19:04:08
(http://i.imgur.com/doNLjBZ.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 19:18:01
They remind me of the profile Apple used for its AEK keyboards and the profile used for those old TI boards with SKCM Brown switches.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 19:21:03
Are you going to retrobrite them?Most likely, They are small enough I will probably just soak them in hydrogen peroxide instead of mixing up a paste.
They remind me of the profile Apple used for its AEK keyboards and the profile used for those old TI boards with SKCM Brown switches.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 04 August 2016, 20:43:37
More
(http://i.imgur.com/eV5Qhev.jpg)
More
(http://i.imgur.com/29L9lKi.jpg)
Anyhow, my initial impression is that SKCM Blues are just OK in a smaller layout like this. As I suspected, the sound of the switches are highly dependent on the chassis they are mounted in, so they don't sound as rich in tone as they did when they were in my DC-2014. Now, I just need to take care of my SKCM Brown build and then I should be pretty happy for a while.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 04 August 2016, 23:39:22
Well, after months of having the parts lying around in jars and boxes, I finally put together my Alps64 with SKCM Blues. It might have been more trouble than it was worth to be honest; I feel kinda gross thinking about it, haha.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/eV5Qhev.jpg)MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/29L9lKi.jpg)
Anyhow, my initial impression is that SKCM Blues are just OK in a smaller layout like this. As I suspected, the sound of the switches are highly dependent on the chassis they are mounted in, so they don't sound as rich in tone as they did when they were in my DC-2014. Now, I just need to take care of my SKCM Brown build and then I should be pretty happy for a while.
Yeah, I definitely agree with you here. I didn't really care for SKCM Blues in my 60% build. The acoustics just aren't as nice as they are in the large plastic case of a vintage board, though I think they sound pretty nice in the Orion. :D
They are most certainly dependent on the chasis they're in though. I remember having SKCM Blue in my bent case Infinity, and while nice, it was a much different sound. It lost that vintage allure. Let me know how that SKCM Brown build turns out!
Post by: emdude on Thu, 04 August 2016, 23:47:40
This board was kind of a mess (I might have perhaps rushed things), but I guess I'm happy it turned out just fine in the end. After using it for a little bit, I'll admit that the sound is still pretty nice, better than SKCM Whites and probably my Ambers too, and it definitely feels great.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 August 2016, 00:32:29
Post by: chyros on Fri, 05 August 2016, 03:48:01
I have removed the legends from some of the semi-spherical/sculpted caps, and it worked well. now to clean and whiten them. its like 5 minutes of scrubbing with a q tip and brake fluid on each cap. fun. looks like I know what im doing for the next week.It's probably just the picture, but they look just like normal cyclindrical caps from here Oo .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/doNLjBZ.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 05 August 2016, 04:05:48
I like them though. :thumb:
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 12:10:45
Where did you get it? are there more?Got this beauty in the mail today. Just need to get a cable for it.You have to tell me what that is, I want one!Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/84f0a56da64fa5e9a48a22e60a7a0f2e.jpg)
sent from my chess board
IDOL Japan Corp Model KB-SMK-97
mac white alps vintage.
so heavy. so good. got to find a cable quick i'm dieing to try it out for realz
Are there more? Somewhere, probably. I tried to sell mine for like 3 months because I didn't much like the switches. These were marketed in Japan though so it's unlikely that another one will turn up in the US. On the other hand, this board was based on the Strong Man SMK-97 design which many, many companies rebranded such as Filco, Datadesk, Pioneer, and ELSA (not as well known as they were 20 years ago). I first posted about this particular family of keyboards here: https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/pioneer-and-filco-oem-t12906.html
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 12:24:38
http://japamart.com/auctoolitem.php?url=http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t481380565 (http://japamart.com/auctoolitem.php?url=http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t481380565)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 15:50:39
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 15:52:53
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 16:11:27
Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.Your not the first ;) I have been doing the same thing for many month's (almost a year?) with the same numpad and now just need SKCL Brown. I have some extra Matias Clicky, SKCM Orange, Salmon, Cream damp and some SKCL Green and Yellow I believe.
(http://i.imgur.com/O7hfk9B.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 16:15:38
You are the reason I wanted to do it! I just couldnt remember if it was you or e3e that did it. I would love to have those switches. PM me so we can figure out a price and shipping.Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.Your not the first ;) I have been doing the same thing for many month's (almost a year?) with the same numpad and now just need SKCL Brown. I have some extra Matias Clicky, SKCM Orange, Salmon, Cream damp and some SKCL Green and Yellow I believe.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/O7hfk9B.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 05 August 2016, 16:17:12
(http://i.imgur.com/YMC6jRU.jpg)
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 13:44:55
The SKCM Blue restro is going well. Changed my method a bit to include lubing the part of the click leaf that comes into contact with the slider. Smoother and retains clickyness. Have done about 40 during my free time. I also found that lubing them and then leaving them overnight to let them sit and soak in a bit then lubing the slider again produces better results. The sliders are very parched so it takes some time for them. Housing and doing work on them using the metal plate from the IBM Multistation, makes for a good surface to work on that keeps them in place.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YMC6jRU.jpg)
is it weird that i think that picture is sexual? :p
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 13:58:31
[attach=1]
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 14:10:38
Post by: digi on Sat, 06 August 2016, 15:05:34
*@&$#! beats alps 4:1
Reported!
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 15:19:30
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 15:20:19
**** cherry*@&$#! beats alps 4:1
Reported!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: digi on Sat, 06 August 2016, 16:10:34
(http://i.imgur.com/Q3fg4Fk.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 06 August 2016, 16:30:15
But any tactile or clicky Cherry is beat by ALPS 10:1, tactile Cherry just sucks. Only one worth it is MX Clears because of their unique feel.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:29:58
I'd appreciate it if you appreciated some ambersShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/Q3fg4Fk.jpg)
i'd appreciate ambers if i could get some along with greens and blues :p
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:31:15
I'd appreciate it if you appreciated some ambersId appreciate it if you would let me buy one of those from you for my switch tester projectShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/Q3fg4Fk.jpg)
Post by: digi on Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:32:58
I'd appreciate it if you appreciated some ambersId appreciate it if you would let me buy one of those from you for my switch tester projectShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/Q3fg4Fk.jpg)
Once I get my hand on the other handful I need for my TKL, I'll give you one =)
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:36:48
Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.
what number pad is this? could you link me. i am trying a similar project but i want to make mine out of acrylic and noticed that you are getting one. it would save a lot of time :p
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:40:55
Damn my indecisiveness!Sorry to necro this but there was a 6085 on eBay? Darn. That's what I get for stepping away from the keyboard community for a week. And it went for only $129.00? Oh, woe is me.
There was a Xerox 6085 on eBay available, but someone got it. It has more switches than IBM 5140, and is a keyboard in its own right. However, IBM could be made to work relatively easy, and for Xerox it would either need to be hand-wired or "scrapped" for switches. I hate choices like this.
The SKCM Blue restro is going well. Changed my method a bit to include lubing the part of the click leaf that comes into contact with the slider. Smoother and retains clickyness. Have done about 40 during my free time. I also found that lubing them and then leaving them overnight to let them sit and soak in a bit then lubing the slider again produces better results. The sliders are very parched so it takes some time for them. Housing and doing work on them using the metal plate from the IBM Multistation, makes for a good surface to work on that keeps them in place.Interesting, I will have to try this when I get around to working on my switches again. I am glad to hear the restore is going well, though.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YMC6jRU.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:43:13
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.
what number pad is this? could you link me. i am trying a similar project but i want to make mine out of acrylic and noticed that you are getting one. it would save a lot of time :p
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 17:46:27
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.
what number pad is this? could you link me. i am trying a similar project but i want to make mine out of acrylic and noticed that you are getting one. it would save a lot of time :p
thank you, going to buy one as soon as possible considering its free shipping!
step 2: desolder one switch from each of my keyboards :p (i might try to get a couple greens, blues, oranges and even ambers and make it layered instead of individual switches)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:23:21
I can send a few blues your way once I get the lube in the mail and get them cleaned up.http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.
what number pad is this? could you link me. i am trying a similar project but i want to make mine out of acrylic and noticed that you are getting one. it would save a lot of time :p
thank you, going to buy one as soon as possible considering its free shipping!
step 2: desolder one switch from each of my keyboards :p (i might try to get a couple greens, blues, oranges and even ambers and make it layered instead of individual switches)
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:34:53
I can send a few blues your way once I get the lube in the mail and get them cleaned up.http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.
what number pad is this? could you link me. i am trying a similar project but i want to make mine out of acrylic and noticed that you are getting one. it would save a lot of time :p
thank you, going to buy one as soon as possible considering its free shipping!
step 2: desolder one switch from each of my keyboards :p (i might try to get a couple greens, blues, oranges and even ambers and make it layered instead of individual switches)
that would be great thanks but the shipping would be around the same price as before. if the shipping is less it would be fine but would you mind throwing in a couple whites so that i can use them on the number pad too. then it would mean i'm getting my moneys worth of shipping. :p
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:43:29
sure, Ill let you know when Im done with them.I can send a few blues your way once I get the lube in the mail and get them cleaned up.http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272305990001?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=571142535190&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)Hey guys, I have a huge favor to ask. I have one of those 20 key Alps Clone numpads coming in the mail, and I would like to make it into a switch tester. I am looking for 1 of each type of SKCM/SKCL switch sans white and blue. Pm me if you can help with this, and we can talk money. I figured this would be a better place to post this than classifieds.
what number pad is this? could you link me. i am trying a similar project but i want to make mine out of acrylic and noticed that you are getting one. it would save a lot of time :p
thank you, going to buy one as soon as possible considering its free shipping!
step 2: desolder one switch from each of my keyboards :p (i might try to get a couple greens, blues, oranges and even ambers and make it layered instead of individual switches)
that would be great thanks but the shipping would be around the same price as before. if the shipping is less it would be fine but would you mind throwing in a couple whites so that i can use them on the number pad too. then it would mean i'm getting my moneys worth of shipping. :p
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 19:42:52
nevermind I got one
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 19:48:49
Post by: E3E on Sat, 06 August 2016, 20:15:18
Damn my indecisiveness!Sorry to necro this but there was a 6085 on eBay? Darn. That's what I get for stepping away from the keyboard community for a week. And it went for only $129.00? Oh, woe is me.
There was a Xerox 6085 on eBay available, but someone got it. It has more switches than IBM 5140, and is a keyboard in its own right. However, IBM could be made to work relatively easy, and for Xerox it would either need to be hand-wired or "scrapped" for switches. I hate choices like this.
Dude, there were like four of them on eBay for nearly half a year. :P
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Xerox%20keyboard&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
Also, someone with reverse engineering skills could figure out the protocol. In fact, someone pretty much has, I think:
(http://i.imgur.com/UBG7hmy.png)
But no one has made a converter for it. :(
Additional notes from Hasu when he posted on my Docutech restoration thread on Deskthority:
Quote
Just skimed over bitsavers.org.
This keyboard looks very similar or identical to Xerox 6085 workstation keyboard. You can find tech references under here to make converter for it. http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www. ... erox/6085/
Seem like it spits out 3 bytes for keys and mouse on differential bus at 9600 baud.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 06 August 2016, 21:51:50
Anybody got a at101w keycap set you could sell me?
Pm me.
Post by: ED2914 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 04:10:34
I have bought a fake Model M at taobao recently, and it arrived yesterday.
At lease the blue alps is real :thumb: I will disassemble this board very soon.
(http://i.imgur.com/35w2icW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ESTwXHl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hoJhrQz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Tfd0fqk.jpg)
The label should be real.
(http://i.imgur.com/vnsPTvF.jpg)
Interesting keycaps.
(http://i.imgur.com/xOvu5MO.jpg)
Only mark on the PCB.
(http://i.imgur.com/25uZYO9.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 August 2016, 09:06:32
I have bought a fake Model M at taobao recently, and it arrived yesterday.
At lease the blue alps is real
Try to get it working and save the PCB if at all possible.
A true-ANSI blue alps keyboard is far more rare and desirable than a Model M, particularly in a solid case.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 09:45:03
Post by: ED2914 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 11:30:35
I have bought a fake Model M at taobao recently, and it arrived yesterday.
At lease the blue alps is real
Try to get it working and save the PCB if at all possible.
A true-ANSI blue alps keyboard is far more rare and desirable than a Model M, particularly in a solid case.
I may give it a try, but the PCB is slightly broken as you can see in the photo.
And I will need a Model M cable too.
Discussion about the board.
https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/no-joke-model-m-with-blue-alps-t3894.html (https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/no-joke-model-m-with-blue-alps-t3894.html)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 07 August 2016, 13:47:47
It is not a perfect solution, but I filled out an Alps-mount Tai-Hao Dolch set on a vintage Winkeyless board using a black 7.0x spacebar and blank black 1.5x bottom-row caps from Matias. It looks passably okay to me, because the color on the bottom row is consistent.
The biggest problem is that most of the legacy Alps keyboards have their own unique layout.
I bought a set of the modern "Dolch-esque" doubleshots a few months ago, and they are very nice, but the bottom row is not compatible with the common vintage boards like Dell, Northgate, and Focus. Is is very sad.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 13:49:09
If youre planning on fixing up the board I can send you some of the caps youre missing.Hi guys,
I have bought a fake Model M at taobao recently, and it arrived yesterday.
At lease the blue alps is real :thumb: I will disassemble this board very soon.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/35w2icW.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ESTwXHl.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hoJhrQz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Tfd0fqk.jpg)
The label should be real.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vnsPTvF.jpg)
Interesting keycaps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xOvu5MO.jpg)
Only mark on the PCB.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/25uZYO9.jpg)
that's very cool. I would like one of those if I could find it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 15:08:28
It is not a perfect solution, but I filled out an Alps-mount Tai-Hao Dolch set on a vintage Winkeyless board using a black 7.0x spacebar and blank black 1.5x bottom-row caps from Matias. It looks passably okay to me, because the color on the bottom row is consistent.
The biggest problem is that most of the legacy Alps keyboards have their own unique layout.
I bought a set of the modern "Dolch-esque" doubleshots a few months ago, and they are very nice, but the bottom row is not compatible with the common vintage boards like Dell, Northgate, and Focus. Is is very sad.
Does Matias' 7u space bar use traditional Alps stabs or Costar/cruciform mount?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 07 August 2016, 15:18:29
The other stabilized keys from Matias use the rectangular-mount Alps inserts.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 07 August 2016, 15:21:49
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 17:20:46
Reminds me of the SGI Button Box, and that had LED'd SKCL Gray's.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 07 August 2016, 17:39:03
Do you guys think this is Alps? http://www.ebay.com/itm/291119068552Never seen any Alps thing that looks like that Oo . Could be, though.
Reminds me of the SGI Button Box, and that had LED'd SKCL Gray's.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 17:45:53
Here is what the SGI looks likeDo you guys think this is Alps? http://www.ebay.com/itm/291119068552Never seen any Alps thing that looks like that Oo . Could be, though.
Reminds me of the SGI Button Box, and that had LED'd SKCL Gray's.
(http://www.macnetic.net/ebaypics7//DSC05138.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 07 August 2016, 17:52:31
So the 7u spacebar does use Costar-style stabilizers? It sounds like you can use it with a plate that uses Alps-style stab inserts though, which is good..Yes, luckily it worked for me on the Omnikey 101. However, I have seen all sorts of variations on spacebar sizes and stabilizer schemes in Alps-switch keyboards -- sort of like a box of chocolates. ;)
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 18:23:44
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sun, 07 August 2016, 18:27:19
where can I appreciate cherry?
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 18:41:37
Do you guys think this is Alps? http://www.ebay.com/itm/291119068552
Reminds me of the SGI Button Box, and that had LED'd SKCL Gray's.
I saw this one a while back, Mattr. I was wondering the same thing. The front-facing windows would imply a switch with a front-facing LED like Alps SKCL or Cherry MX. With that high price, it's too much of a gamble. The button box had SKCL Grey, but who knows what this might have, even if it was Alps.
So the 7u spacebar does use Costar-style stabilizers? It sounds like you can use it with a plate that uses Alps-style stab inserts though, which is good..Yes, luckily it worked for me on the Omnikey 101. However, I have seen all sorts of variations on spacebar sizes and stabilizer schemes in Alps-switch keyboards -- sort of like a box of chocolates. ;)
Yeah, it seems that some stabilizer inserts work alright with the cruciform mount. Does Matias have some kind of hybrid stab that can fit inside the cruciform indention? Traditional Alps stabs would have to be shaven, and Costar obviously does not have the clearance to work. This would've been a good option for my Orion space bar instead of the grueling attempts and eventual success I had in dyeing the ABS black.
I'll have to look into a set sometime.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 07 August 2016, 19:12:41
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 07 August 2016, 19:57:24
(http://i.imgur.com/pZIV09O.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/q6aG4OH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pykhAaW.jpg)
I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila!
It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:04:13
I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns? ;D ;DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/pZIV09O.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/q6aG4OH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pykhAaW.jpg)
I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila!
It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.
Amazing find, Klennkellon, you just found one of the few keyboards that have SKCL Brown! Very much an amazing find, thrift store find or not. Prepare for some people to be PMing you to buy the thing off of you, haha.
How do you like the switches? It looks like the board is in great shape. Yep, more evidence that SKCL Brown is a Korean switch made by Goldstar Alps exclusively.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:11:49
My favorite thing about them so far is the sound, they are by far my favorite sounding switch, even more than my Model M or SKCM White.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:17:28
I haven't tried any other linear ALPS to compare them to but they feel great, the only other linear switch I have tried were MX and Kailh reds, neither of which are as smooth as these.
My favorite thing about them so far is the sound, they are by far my favorite sounding switch, even more than my Model M or SKCM White.
Awesome. SKCL Brown is, without a doubt, one of my favorite switches. Do you plan to keep it as is? It seems like it's in perfect shape as you've said. :D
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:21:25
What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?
edit: Should be SKCL Amber!!!!
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:24:05
Holy **** man :eek:
What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?
edit: The label says gold star alps
It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:25:00
I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns? ;D ;DIt doesn't have to be from '86, the serial number might just end in that. Still, 1986 is actually a reasonable estimate for SKCL brown :) . Indeed, it was very much a Goldstar thing, so it makes sense this one is too.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pZIV09O.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/q6aG4OH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pykhAaW.jpg)
I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila!
It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.
Congrats though, it's a fantastic find for sure. It looks quite a bit like the Focus FK-747, except subtly different. And it looks ****ing immaculate :D . And yeah, I bet they sound nice, it's not Alps if it doesn't have a great soundtrack!
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:28:09
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:28:55
I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?Looking at the model number it should be SKCL Amber. KCLEA907L. I'm nominating this for find of the year lol.Holy **** man :eek:
What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?
edit: The label says gold star alps
It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.
(http://kbd.rzw.jp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/PACKARD_BELL_KCLEA907L_05.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:31:12
It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.
My preferred method is to seat the key on the switch with the wire dangling, then use a small flat-head screwdriver to gently seat the wire into the slot on the plastic tab. It is easier if you remove the surrounding keys to gain some working space.
With the space bar that may mean taking off the top case shell.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:33:52
I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?Holy **** man :eek:
What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?
edit: The label says gold star alps
It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.
Yep, the space bar should be an SKCL Amber switch; it's been that way for every SKCL Brown board I have seen, from the Visual board, to the Tandem I owned (which was a banana compared to yours, though it had 101 keys), to others I've seen posted on korean forums (I believe). Any keyboard made in Korea has the chance of having SKCL Brown Alps.
IMO, it's like the same kind of chance game you get with SKCM Blue, in that the switch can come in many different boards, but those boards can come with several switches, except with SKCL Brown, you're on the next tier of difficulty, haha.
I took the SKCL Browns out of my Tandem keyboard because it was a dumb terminal board and wasn't usable off the bat. I made a project out of using them for my Alps NCR keyboard build, which used a Leeku 3000 Alps compatible PCB and an Acer 6011 plate (heavily modified to use Cherry PCB mount stabs) to mount the switches and use some Tai Hao FAME cherry profile caps.
(http://puu.sh/qtqK0/0a771bdcda.JPG)
Also drilled every switch so I could add backlighting to the keyboard, oh god.
Anyway, congrats on your find. It's probably the rarest Alps switch along with SKCM Green. People will be able to get a similar feel with SPRIT's spring GB coming up soon after swapping the approx weight into a linear switch. :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:34:19
Yea, thats what I do too. Also have a method for when those plastic tabs come out with the wire. Have to get them angled right to reseat them in the plate properly.
It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.
My preferred method is to seat the key on the switch with the wire dangling, then use a small flat-head screwdriver to gently seat the wire into the slot on the plastic tab. It is easier if you remove the surrounding keys to gain some working space.
With the space bar that may mean taking of the top case shell.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:42:13
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:42:33
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:44:55
why can't all the cherry threads be this active?
Because cherry is so boring.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:55:20
I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?
I forgot to comment on the comparison:
So I've pretty much tried and currently own all the major linear switches with Alps: Yellow, Cream, Brown and Green.
Green is the lightest. Very smooth, but very airy and light. I can see people wanting something a little bit heavier.
Yellow is a little bit heavier. It's around 5-10g heavier than SKCL Green but is a big underdog most people don't care for. It's a nice switch, but I'm happy with SKCL Green and Brown.
Cream is a jump up from Yellow and it's a bit heavier. It's cushiony and feels almost as heavy as SKCL Brown.
Brown is the heaviest linear switch that you can found across a keyboard's alphanumeric keys. It's probably my favorite linear, but I like green a lot too.
So yeah, you're dealing the the heaviest linears. I use a SKCL brown spring in an SKCM Blue switch for my space bar on my Orion TKL. I don't mind uniform springs on any other SKCM blue board I have, but on the Orion, I have to have a heavier space bar spring.
Here's the weights I noted for the different switches. Used a roll of coins. I don't have a fancy weight system. :P
SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
SKCL Green - 52g
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 07 August 2016, 20:57:52
They are at least lighter than my Model M, so at most they're 70g.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 21:02:32
Next time I get some nickels I'll do a proper weight test.
They are at least lighter than my Model M, so at most they're 70g.
Those are bottom out weights though. I just tested it on my NCR, and the switch actuates at 60g. It takes 75 to fully bottom out the switch. Using nickles. :P I've got bundles for 50g, 25g, 20g, 15g, and 10g, haha.
Perhaps we should compare!
Post by: emdude on Sun, 07 August 2016, 21:12:12
I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns? ;D ;DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/pZIV09O.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/q6aG4OH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pykhAaW.jpg)
I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila!
It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.
Awesome find! As another SoCal resident, perhaps there is still hope for a fun thrift store find for me. :p
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 07 August 2016, 21:14:01
why can't all the cherry threads be this active?
Because cherry is so boring.
The timeline, mystery and pursuit are part of what makes Alps so fun. Cherry lacks the vintage intrigue.
Does anyone have a reference for how comparable the springs in various switches are to those in SPRiT's GB?
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 21:15:42
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 07 August 2016, 21:50:40
Also, these keycaps are interesting, they look like medium thick ABS but they are incredibly dense. No matter how hard I try I can just barely start to get them to bend.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 07 August 2016, 21:55:15
I don't dare ever open these switches up, but I wonder how they would feel and sound if you put a Matias or SKCM White click leaf in them.
It'd just be like a heavier weighted version of those switches. You would need to swap an SKCM switch top onto it first though. My SKCM Blue with a SKCL Brown spring still sounds and feels like an SKCM Blue, but it's just heavier.
It's the tactile/click leaf that really effects the tactile feel and sound, so you'll pretty much just be changing weight. Keep in mind that that pleasant sound you get from the switches also comes from the key caps, case, and plate. :) It'd probably be a bit different in another case.
The key caps are Alps Electric double shot key caps. Yeah, they're pretty nice!
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 07 August 2016, 23:00:44
Post by: SBJ on Mon, 08 August 2016, 00:19:02
I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns? ;D ;D:eek:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pZIV09O.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/q6aG4OH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pykhAaW.jpg)
I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila!
It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.
Damn it our thrift stores suck here.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 08 August 2016, 00:57:50
feature=youtu.be
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 08 August 2016, 05:39:24
(http://i.imgur.com/GC9gFCP.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 06:33:48
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 06:34:46
Once I get my hand on the other handful I need for my TKL, I'll give you one =)
If you have anything left after that, PM me please ;)
Post by: chyros on Mon, 08 August 2016, 07:22:30
I think these rival the "Pingmasters" holy crud.Haha, yeah, earlier SKCL/SKCM switches, especially SKCL green, are known for their pinginess xD . That said, SKCCs are on a whole different level, everytime I try my Pingmaster or especially the M0110A I'm surprised by how loud it is xD . Apparently the Pingsaver is pretty bad as well.
feature=youtu.be
Post by: itzmeluigi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 09:17:24
(http://i.imgur.com/3nyp2JW.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 09:21:21
Post by: romevi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 09:27:40
Building my Alps64 in a few days, finally will be able to put these caps to good use(the alphas at least)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3nyp2JW.jpg)
Very cool. Which mods are you going to use?
Post by: itzmeluigi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 10:13:47
Building my Alps64 in a few days, finally will be able to put these caps to good use(the alphas at least)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3nyp2JW.jpg)
Very cool. Which mods are you going to use?
Going to use the mods from a ANSI AEKII to match it :)
Building my Alps64 in a few days, finally will be able to put these caps to good use(the alphas at least)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3nyp2JW.jpg)
very nice :D
Thanks been meaning to build something with it for such a long time :))
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 14:50:17
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83917.0|
My board also has those sweet SKCL Brown switches with backlighting. I really want to see someone else do some Alps SKCL backlighting across a board, haha. It's pretty cool to see a board with vintage switches that were never meant for that kind of thing kind of fit in with modern trends.
(http://i.imgur.com/CZeCBbN.jpg)
OK, stupid question time. Are SKCM brown and SKCL brown in any way "related"? I mean, if you take out tactile leaf from SKCM Brown, would you get (near) SKCL Brown? :p Or are the springs and/or contact leaves completely different?
Not a stupid question, my friend. In short, they are pretty different.
The slider color is EXACTLY the same between SKCL and SKCM Brown, however the slider is not the same. It is symmetrical on SKCL Brown (like SKCL Cream and SKCL Green, etc), but asymmetrical like most Alps switches on SKCM Brown.
I haven't measured the spring weight of SKCM Brown without a tactile leaf, but I think it is lighter than SKCL Brown. Most of the resistance from SKCM Brown comes from the leaf shape itself. The contact leaves are the same though.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:22:22
I measured actuation at ~47.5 (9 nickles and a penny). Bottom out was at 50.
See the weird thing with Alps that makes it so hard to figure out a proper bottom out weight is, well... Sometimes the balance of the weight on the cap lets more or less weight sit on top of the switch before bottoming. I guess because of the weight distribution?
I could get it to bottom with 50 though, every time. So it is much lighter than SKCL Brown.
So we've got a spring that's pretty much on par with SKCL Green in an otherwise heavy switch. The leaf spring really does take up all the resistance.
Testing SKCL Brown again, it bottoms at 70g. So actuation for brown is 60g and it bottoms at 70.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:31:50
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:32:45
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JNPfyg2.jpg)
time to buy :D
Did that PCB not come with RGB LEDs above the nav cluster? It seems like they're missing.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:33:15
Post by: digi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:33:33
I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?
I forgot to comment on the comparison:
So I've pretty much tried and currently own all the major linear switches with Alps: Yellow, Cream, Brown and Green.
Green is the lightest. Very smooth, but very airy and light. I can see people wanting something a little bit heavier.
Yellow is a little bit heavier. It's around 5-10g heavier than SKCL Green but is a big underdog most people don't care for. It's a nice switch, but I'm happy with SKCL Green and Brown.
Cream is a jump up from Yellow and it's a bit heavier. It's cushiony and feels almost as heavy as SKCL Brown.
Brown is the heaviest linear switch that you can found across a keyboard's alphanumeric keys. It's probably my favorite linear, but I like green a lot too.
So yeah, you're dealing the the heaviest linears. I use a SKCL brown spring in an SKCM Blue switch for my space bar on my Orion TKL. I don't mind uniform springs on any other SKCM blue board I have, but on the Orion, I have to have a heavier space bar spring.
Here's the weights I noted for the different switches. Used a roll of coins. I don't have a fancy weight system. :P
SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
SKCL Green - 52g
You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!
I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:35:11
Post by: digi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:36:22
I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?
I forgot to comment on the comparison:
So I've pretty much tried and currently own all the major linear switches with Alps: Yellow, Cream, Brown and Green.
Green is the lightest. Very smooth, but very airy and light. I can see people wanting something a little bit heavier.
Yellow is a little bit heavier. It's around 5-10g heavier than SKCL Green but is a big underdog most people don't care for. It's a nice switch, but I'm happy with SKCL Green and Brown.
Cream is a jump up from Yellow and it's a bit heavier. It's cushiony and feels almost as heavy as SKCL Brown.
Brown is the heaviest linear switch that you can found across a keyboard's alphanumeric keys. It's probably my favorite linear, but I like green a lot too.
So yeah, you're dealing the the heaviest linears. I use a SKCL brown spring in an SKCM Blue switch for my space bar on my Orion TKL. I don't mind uniform springs on any other SKCM blue board I have, but on the Orion, I have to have a heavier space bar spring.
Here's the weights I noted for the different switches. Used a roll of coins. I don't have a fancy weight system. :P
SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
SKCL Green - 52g
You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!
I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?
a NIB ambers board just sold for $100. I tried to get it for a friend in Canada, but someone beat me to it.
Damn, I need someone to sell me 25 amber switches so I can make a TKL when that GB goes live..I'm in no rush though..
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:40:27
You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!
I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?
I've tried pretty much everything haha. I haven't tried pine SKCM Black or OG SKCM Ivory/Cream from the Canon Typewriters, but those examples aren't very different from their counterparts from what I've read. Pine tops add more tactility and the Ivory switches are just a bit stiffer? Still want to try those though.
Ambers... I didn't like the click very much and it felt like I was typing on rocky road. I do want to buy an Apple IIc again and give them a second chance, but I traded all of mine for more blues lol.
I would say that the blacks in an AT101W aren't as heavy as SKCL Brown though, lemmie check, haha.
Edit: Nope, they're more like ghetto SKCL Yellows. All of those switches, SKCL Yellow, SKCM White, SKCM Salmon, SKCM Black and I think even SKCM Green, use the same weighting for the return spring.
I got my Apple IIc for $47. $100 is a nightmare. Ugh, damn the prices.
Post by: digi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:46:06
You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!
I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?
I've tried pretty much everything haha. I haven't tried pine SKCM Black or OG SKCM Ivory/Cream from the Canon Typewriters, but those examples aren't very different from their counterparts from what I've read. Pine tops add more tactility and the Ivory switches are just a bit stiffer? Still want to try those though.
Ambers... I didn't like the click very much and it felt like I was typing on rocky road. I do want to buy an Apple IIc again and give them a second chance, but I traded all of mine for more blues lol.
I would say that the blacks in an AT101W aren't as heavy as SKCL Brown though, lemmie check, haha.
Edit: Nope, they're more like ghetto SKCL Yellows. All of those switches, SKCL Yellow, SKCM White, SKCM Salmon, SKCM Black and I think even SKCM Green, use the same weighting for the return spring.
I got my Apple IIc for $47. $100 is a nightmare. Ugh, damn the prices.
I noticed there are at least two if not more model numbers on the Apple IIc keyboard p/n's themselves...I'm not sure if there is a difference between them and which ones carry Ambers, or do all of them have Ambers?
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:47:19
I noticed there are at least two if not more model numbers on the Apple IIc keyboard p/n's themselves...I'm not sure if there is a difference between them and which ones carry Ambers, or do all of them have Ambers?
The ones that always have ambers are the A2S4100 models.
That model number is correct though.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:50:25
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:52:24
I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?
These are pine blacks or bamboo blacks?
The slider color is EXACTLY the same between SKCL and SKCM Brown, however the slider is not the same. It is symmetrical on SKCL Brown (like SKCL Cream and SKCL Green, etc), but asymmetrical like most Alps switches on SKCM Brown.
The contact leaves are the same though.
And what is the exact purpose of the asymmetry that was introduced? Especially since contact leaves are the same.
a NIB ambers board just sold for $100. I tried to get it for a friend in Canada, but someone beat me to it.
So I've been looking for Ambers for some two months, and now this happens. Not to mention this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-Macintosh-IIc-Compact-Computer-w-case-disks-power-untested-/272327510559
And when I bid on one that was in my proxy's hometown so there would be no local shipping cost, and the package was just the untested machine, it went for some $70. Alps hunt can really get frustrating, especially for us across the Atlantic. Deep breaths :)
(Did I mention I'm looking for a proxy in Arizona? ;D )
Post by: digi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:52:29
I noticed there are at least two if not more model numbers on the Apple IIc keyboard p/n's themselves...I'm not sure if there is a difference between them and which ones carry Ambers, or do all of them have Ambers?
The ones that always have ambers are the A2S4100 models.I think they're also known as the platinum versions, but I'm not 100% sure on that last bit.Nope, nevermind. :P
That model number is correct though.
I'm guessing that's the p/n of the Apple IIC itself, the actualy keyboard number is like xxx-xxxx
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:53:35
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:55:27
I'm guessing that's the p/n of the Apple IIC itself, the actualy keyboard number is like xxx-xxxx
Trying to find the keyboard itself alone? I've seen a replacement model come with SKCM Blue. I threw mine out after desoldering so I have no idea what the keyboard model # would be. Didn't find anything on your Apple IIc when you got it in?
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 15:58:44
not to rub it in, but could have had the seller ship just the keyboard and saved on that $40 shipping. Well I am sure there will be more. It was a mass production in the USA, so I think you can find them later on. Are ambers clicky or no?
Well, I didn't get that one either, as I was away from computer this weekend. So it's not rubbing it in. Or it's rubbing it in even more, depending on how you look at it ;)
And Ambers are clicky. Heavy and clicky.
I've seen a replacement model come with SKCM Blue. I threw mine out after desoldering
That blue alps one was weird to see. And too bad for the assembly. It could have made some A2S4000 happy, just putting in blacks, creams, whites or whatever was laying around.....with retroconnector it could be used as a keyboard in it's own right :)
Post by: emdude on Mon, 08 August 2016, 16:02:15
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 16:05:51
Yeah, Ambers are quite tactile, like SKCM Browns, but the drop in resistance is sharp like other clicky SKCMs and not rounded like Browns. They feel quite nice and sound pretty decent.
Their tactility reminded me of the time when I got my first Alps keyboard, an NTC 6151N, ignorant of the world of Alps and skeptical of the authenticity of the SKCM Blues, opened one up and bent the click leaf by accident, making it far more tactile.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 16:22:43
My best find by far :D
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 16:37:07
Have a very great find like klennkellon's Packard Bell on its way off craigslist!!
My best find by far :D
One might even say that your find itself is...
A PACKARD BELL! :eek:
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 16:44:10
Yea lol all these deez Packard Bell's lately :))Have a very great find like klennkellon's Packard Bell on its way off craigslist!!
My best find by far :D
One might even say that your find itself is...
A PACKARD BELL! :eek:
Post by: emdude on Mon, 08 August 2016, 16:48:51
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 08 August 2016, 17:10:53
Have a very great find like klennkellon's Packard Bell on its way off craigslist!!Congrats! Is it the same type of board with SKCL Brown? We're lucky as hell xD
My best find by far :D
Coincidentally, the last thing of interest I found at the same thrift store was also a Packard Bell. I got excited and thought it used those excellent BTC domes but it turns out it's using some obscure but lame feeling Fujitsu domes with slider. I did at least get a Focus style split right shift and big-ass enter cap out of it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:08:23
Have a very great find like klennkellon's Packard Bell on its way off craigslist!!Congrats! Is it the same type of board with SKCL Brown? We're lucky as hell xD
My best find by far :D
Coincidentally, the last thing of interest I found at the same thrift store was also a Packard Bell. I got excited and thought it used those excellent BTC domes but it turns out it's using some obscure but lame feeling Fujitsu domes with slider. I did at least get a Focus style split right shift and big-ass enter cap out of it.
Even better. The T9201. SKCM Blue, Alps Electric doubleshot caps, completely normal ANSI layout and a heavy metal backplate to boot! Its combines everything l love about the ZKB-2, DC-3014 and the KB101A all in one package :D All for $25.
(http://kbd.rzw.jp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PACKARD_BELL_T8025_01.jpg)
(http://kbd.rzw.jp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PACKARD_BELL_T8025_06.jpg)
(http://kbd.rzw.jp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PACKARD_BELL_T8025_05.jpg)
Pics from kbd.rzw.jp
Post by: emdude on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:12:45
Out of curiosity, does it have the white or gold LED sticker?
Post by: chyros on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:13:16
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:19:26
Whoa, very nice find. :)White. That particular one is just yellowed. Here is the one I bought. Almost no yellowing whatsoever :eek:
Out of curiosity, does it have the white or gold LED sticker?
(http://www.vincent.tvcoast.net/prod/images/prod-1693-1.jpg)
Post by: emdude on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:23:00
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:33:58
Okay wow, that $25 price tag sounded familiar. I actually saw this listing a few weeks ago but I passed on it because I couldn't get the seller to pull a cap. Were you able to manage it?No. I'm guessing. SKCM Blue seems to be the most common, only one example has been found to have SKCM White. Otherwise there are many more examples I have found online so far with SKCM Blue. The reason I didn't ask is unique. There's actually quite the story behind this. E3E tried to get this for a while but the guy just went dead on him randomly. He never responded to me the first time. He just relisted it a couple days ago and he responded and I nabbed it. Lucky the seller even went through with it. Asking to pull a cap may have been suicide.
it very likely is.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:36:07
Yeah, the indicator labels can yellow on most boards. Was that material mylar or something? Either way, once they yellow, there's nothing that will restore them. Retrobrighting won't do it.
My Focus FK-555 is the only one of the FK-555s I've seen that doesn't have a yellowed function row strip. Most of them are beige.
Good find. These can be SKCM White and SKCM Orange from what I have seen, but by all likelihood, it's going to be SKCM Blue.
Post by: emdude on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:39:20
I was wondering because of the chance of it being SKCM White like you've mentioned. All other examples of the board with SKCM Blues had the gold LED sticker, including this one (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=18588.0).
Sandy's own documentation (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps.html) of the board had a version of it with a white/grey label and SKCM Whites. I was about to get this board but when I saw this I changed my mind. I'm not much of a risk-taker when it comes to poorly-documented boards. :P Didn't know the labels could yellow though. TIL!
Hopefully your board does end up having SKCM Blues though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:45:51
Yep, I was after that one too, but the seller went unresponsive. You win some, you lose some. Haha yeah, asking to pull of cap might've tipped the boat. Best to make things as simple as possible. I mean, it's a hell of a price any way you cut it.Sandy swapped SKCM Orange into that one I think. "Post products retrofit to all switches extraction ALPS orange for iron plate poor but save the state had been using the ALPS white axis switch also rust was awful"
Yeah, the indicator labels can yellow on most boards. Was that material mylar or something? Either way, once they yellow, there's nothing that will restore them. Retrobrighting won't do it.
My Focus FK-555 is the only one of the FK-555s I've seen that doesn't have a yellowed function row strip. Most of them are beige.
Good find. These can be SKCM White and SKCM Orange from what I have seen, but by all likelihood, it's going to be SKCM Blue.
Okay, I did not know that E3E was also pursuing this at one point.I'm pretty sure the sticker has nothing to do with it. Just age and condition. In general it seems the LED sticker yellows before the rest of the board does imo.
I was wondering because of the chance of it being SKCM White like you've mentioned. All other examples of the board with SKCM Blues have the gold LED sticker, including this one (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=18588.0).
Sandy's own documentation (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps.html) of the board has a version of it with a white/grey label and SKCM Whites. I was about to get this board but when I saw this I changed my mind. I'm not much of a risk-taker when it comes to poorly-documented boards. :P Didn't know they could yellow though. TIL!
Hopefully your board does end up having SKCM Blues though.
Post by: emdude on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:52:08
Post by: E3E on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:59:05
Yep, I was after that one too, but the seller went unresponsive. You win some, you lose some. Haha yeah, asking to pull of cap might've tipped the boat. Best to make things as simple as possible. I mean, it's a hell of a price any way you cut it.Sandy swapped SKCM Orange into that one I think. "Post products retrofit to all switches extraction ALPS orange for iron plate poor but save the state had been using the ALPS white axis switch also rust was awful"
Yeah, the indicator labels can yellow on most boards. Was that material mylar or something? Either way, once they yellow, there's nothing that will restore them. Retrobrighting won't do it.
My Focus FK-555 is the only one of the FK-555s I've seen that doesn't have a yellowed function row strip. Most of them are beige.
Good find. These can be SKCM White and SKCM Orange from what I have seen, but by all likelihood, it's going to be SKCM Blue.Okay, I did not know that E3E was also pursuing this at one point.I'm pretty sure the sticker has nothing to do with it. Just age and condition. In general it seems the LED sticker yellows before the rest of the board does imo.
I was wondering because of the chance of it being SKCM White like you've mentioned. All other examples of the board with SKCM Blues have the gold LED sticker, including this one (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=18588.0).
Sandy's own documentation (http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps.html) of the board has a version of it with a white/grey label and SKCM Whites. I was about to get this board but when I saw this I changed my mind. I'm not much of a risk-taker when it comes to poorly-documented boards. :P Didn't know they could yellow though. TIL!
Hopefully your board does end up having SKCM Blues though.
Oh, so he swapped. Gotcha. Then it's a board with white or blue switches. Yeah, I was pretty surprised to see orange. Even in the Wang, that's odd. It's pretty much an Apple exclusive switch.
Yeah the sticker is just something that yellows like the rest. Not sure if it's because of heat or sunlight, but yeah. It's pretty ew. LED windows can have this happen to and those don't seem to brighten with RB either.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 08 August 2016, 20:42:56
Post by: digi on Mon, 08 August 2016, 21:18:26
I'm guessing that's the p/n of the Apple IIC itself, the actualy keyboard number is like xxx-xxxx
Trying to find the keyboard itself alone? I've seen a replacement model come with SKCM Blue. I threw mine out after desoldering so I have no idea what the keyboard model # would be. Didn't find anything on your Apple IIc when you got it in?
p/n on the keyboard part on the back is 658-4087...probably useless on eBay though I guess, better off just grabbing another IIC and hoping it's Ambers?
Post by: Dokyun on Mon, 08 August 2016, 23:12:01
(http://i.imgur.com/w0iDCj0.jpg)
It's a Sharp CE-671NK numpad. Gorgeous 3-tone grey scheme and thick doubleshot caps. Mmm.
(http://i.imgur.com/J97nExQ.jpg)
...Pity about the actual switches. I'd never tried low-profile Alps before and they're really not great. They remind me of Cherry ML but with a better bump. It also uses something called a DHF-10 connector which disqualifies it from easy use. I'm not even sure what device this originally went to, there's nothing on the internet about it and the best I could find was the FCC ID being registered in 91. I figured there was no way this wouldn't be just using PS/2 internally but I'm not sure now I really care enough to try and make it work. The switches are PCB mount which rules out throwing in something nicer so...eh. The caps are keepers, at least.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 08 August 2016, 23:25:57
Post by: emdude on Mon, 08 August 2016, 23:26:59
Post by: emdude on Tue, 09 August 2016, 02:01:16
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 09 August 2016, 02:10:58
A quick question, please: Does anyone know if SKCM Browns are lubricated? I am prepping for my 60% 5140 build and want to clean the switches up a bit before I start it. It does not appear that they are.I'm pretty certain they use dry lubricant, I think ALPS did this until (SKCM Salmon I think?) and then they switched to a smoother plastic in exchange.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 09 August 2016, 02:54:49
A quick question, please: Does anyone know if SKCM Browns are lubricated? I am prepping for my 60% 5140 build and want to clean the switches up a bit before I start it. It does not appear that they are.I'm pretty certain they use dry lubricant, I think ALPS did this until (SKCM Salmon I think?) and then they switched to a smoother plastic in exchange.
Yeah, I'm aware of this. I don't think I've ever seen a lubricated SKCM Brown slider though, not with my own switches nor in photos. I've heard of some SKCL Greens not having any dry lubricant, at least in one instance. Rather strange. Perhaps the stuff has simply worn off or something.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 12:37:31
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/sys/5724039748.html
Post by: chyros on Tue, 09 August 2016, 12:46:08
Looks like a Acer KB101A, with SKCM White? Its with a whole system so no use getting it I suppose. My grandparents have a house up there in the Anza desert actually.Probably a 6011, they could come with the same case as the KB-101A. In fact, that case model made it into the 6300 series, even.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/sys/5724039748.html
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 14:49:15
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 14:55:27
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 14:56:17
Looks like a Acer KB101A, with SKCM White? Its with a whole system so no use getting it I suppose. My grandparents have a house up there in the Anza desert actually.Just looking through that same page I found a listing for 2 5140s for $250. Have you tried getting in touch with the seller?
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/sys/5724039748.html
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 15:09:26
Yea, tried that a while ago. He wanted too much for the broken one like $70. Tried to re contact him a couple weeks back and he never responded, probably recognized me. I was going to buy it but I backed out. He's actually like 5min from my house lol.Looks like a Acer KB101A, with SKCM White? Its with a whole system so no use getting it I suppose. My grandparents have a house up there in the Anza desert actually.Just looking through that same page I found a listing for 2 5140s for $250. Have you tried getting in touch with the seller?
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/sys/5724039748.html
You can tell the prices are too high since they have been on clist for like forever :p
Post by: E3E on Tue, 09 August 2016, 18:27:42
I've been told that GON took the original cherry pcb and make mods to it to work work alps. I am still not sure about the plate. obviously it's different by color and size. I think he might have had one custom cut or something. I was also told that it costs a very high fee.
I'd charge a lot for those mods too, haha. It's no walk through the park.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 21:59:52
Used to have one actually, was my first Alps board. SKCM Black.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 09 August 2016, 22:19:58
Well this is going real cheap, NIB http://www.ebay.com/itm/302032113407Neat, do you know if they came with the late blacks or the earlier ones?
Used to have one actually, was my first Alps board. SKCM Black.
The shipping kind of kills it for me, though so I'll pass.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 22:36:35
No slits, late. Mine felt like crap :(Well this is going real cheap, NIB http://www.ebay.com/itm/302032113407Neat, do you know if they came with the late blacks or the earlier ones?
Used to have one actually, was my first Alps board. SKCM Black.
The shipping kind of kills it for me, though so I'll pass.
Yea, shipping is ok but for the price no. The box is pretty cool though. For over 20 years, Alps has built the finest keyboards for some of the worlds largest computer companies. As the worlds largest manufacturer of keyswitches and one of the largest manufacturers of keyboards, we're proud to say that we have earned an industry-wide reputation for quality and reliability
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 09 August 2016, 22:41:00
If only alps had won the keyboard wars :(No slits, late. Mine felt like crap :(Well this is going real cheap, NIB http://www.ebay.com/itm/302032113407Neat, do you know if they came with the late blacks or the earlier ones?
Used to have one actually, was my first Alps board. SKCM Black.
The shipping kind of kills it for me, though so I'll pass.
Yea, shipping is ok but for the price no. The box is pretty cool though. For over 20 years, Alps has built the finest keyboards for some of the worlds largest computer companies. As the worlds largest manufacturer of keyswitches and one of the largest manufacturers of keyboards, we're proud to say that we have earned an industry-wide reputation for quality and reliability
Shipping to me is only 15$, but I m really wallethacked. This is not for me. Anyway, I dont really need another bigass enter and 1u backspace alps board.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 09 August 2016, 23:55:13
No slits, late. Mine felt like crap :(Well this is going real cheap, NIB http://www.ebay.com/itm/302032113407Neat, do you know if they came with the late blacks or the earlier ones?
Used to have one actually, was my first Alps board. SKCM Black.
The shipping kind of kills it for me, though so I'll pass.
Yea, shipping is ok but for the price no. The box is pretty cool though. For over 20 years, Alps has built the finest keyboards for some of the worlds largest computer companies. As the worlds largest manufacturer of keyswitches and one of the largest manufacturers of keyboards, we're proud to say that we have earned an industry-wide reputation for quality and reliability
That description warms my heart. It's a shame Alps couldn't keep it together. Another plus to this keyboard would be the double shots. They are ABS DS, right? It's a shame it's BAE, but you'd get some nice alphas out of it if it is typical Alps DS ABS.
Wait no, that asterisk on the num pad gives it away. That's usually seen on dyesubbed or pad printed sets from what I've seen. :-X
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 00:21:16
They're pad printed. Pretty thin and cheap caps, and bamboo SKCM Black aren't the best. My examples at least from that board felt like they were full of sand. Mine was made in 95-96 if I remember correctly. It was nearing the end :( Build quality was alright though.No slits, late. Mine felt like crap :(Well this is going real cheap, NIB http://www.ebay.com/itm/302032113407Neat, do you know if they came with the late blacks or the earlier ones?
Used to have one actually, was my first Alps board. SKCM Black.
The shipping kind of kills it for me, though so I'll pass.
Yea, shipping is ok but for the price no. The box is pretty cool though. For over 20 years, Alps has built the finest keyboards for some of the worlds largest computer companies. As the worlds largest manufacturer of keyswitches and one of the largest manufacturers of keyboards, we're proud to say that we have earned an industry-wide reputation for quality and reliability
That description warms my heart. It's a shame Alps couldn't keep it together. Another plus to this keyboard would be the double shots. They are ABS DS, right? It's a shame it's BAE, but you'd get some nice alphas out of it if it is typical Alps DS ABS.
Wait no, that asterisk on the num pad gives it away. That's usually seen on dyesubbed or pad printed sets from what I've seen. :-X
That board is one of those you keep in its box and preserve. Wonder if you still could send in the card for the lifetime warranty lol :))
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 10 August 2016, 00:36:51
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 August 2016, 04:19:13
Yeah, definitely D: . Of course, the reason they couldn't is because they didn't have to. As soon as making keyswitches turned less lucrative, they just focused on different things. Alps is a massive company so in a way it wasn't much more than an inconvenience. Cherry never had that choice, so they had to stay in the market.No slits, late. Mine felt like crap :(Well this is going real cheap, NIB http://www.ebay.com/itm/302032113407Neat, do you know if they came with the late blacks or the earlier ones?
Used to have one actually, was my first Alps board. SKCM Black.
The shipping kind of kills it for me, though so I'll pass.
Yea, shipping is ok but for the price no. The box is pretty cool though. For over 20 years, Alps has built the finest keyboards for some of the worlds largest computer companies. As the worlds largest manufacturer of keyswitches and one of the largest manufacturers of keyboards, we're proud to say that we have earned an industry-wide reputation for quality and reliability
That description warms my heart. It's a shame Alps couldn't keep it together.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 13:12:41
(https://i.imgur.com/WFXLP8E.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hu6scjU.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/iFZNPwJ.jpg)
More pics soon, need to crack this beast open and clean! Its all seems to be surface dirt and nothing serious. The Blues have Alps logos as well.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 13:16:16
Post by: emdude on Wed, 10 August 2016, 13:16:53
That the top housings have Alps logos is particularly interesting, late SKCM Blues it would seem.
EDIT: I am guessing they also have white switchplates too?
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 10 August 2016, 13:20:07
Post by: Dokyun on Wed, 10 August 2016, 13:33:19
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 18:13:52
Yeah, definitely D: . Of course, the reason they couldn't is because they didn't have to. As soon as making keyswitches turned less lucrative, they just focused on different things. Alps is a massive company so in a way it wasn't much more than an inconvenience. Cherry never had that choice, so they had to stay in the market.
That's true, Alps is a much larger company. It's easy to see them as the underdog when you're just looking at these to as if they were just keyboard switch companies, but Alps always had more going for it. It wasn't just a start-up that couldn't keep up with Cherry. :P
YES!!!!!!!!!! :D :eek:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WFXLP8E.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hu6scjU.jpg?1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/iFZNPwJ.jpg)
More pics soon, need to crack this beast open and clean! Its all seems to be surface dirt and nothing serious. The Blues have Alps logos as well.
Photek bought one off off hammergammeler and it also had blue Alps with logos. It seems to be a trend with this one. The only other I've seen that with was the Apple IIc replacement keyboard.
Nice! :eek:
That the top housings have Alps logos is particularly interesting, late SKCM Blues it would seem.
EDIT: I am guessing they also have white switchplates too?
If they didn't, I'd be surprised. I have some no logo blues with white switch plates. I wonder if these have long or short plates. I'm guessing they're still long though. Orange had long switch plates even with the logos on the housings.
Gotta wonder HOW late these are, because my Acer and Leading Edge are both from 1989 and don't have switches with the logos. One even has grey switch plates while the other has white. So those two probably used left over stock. I guess these were actually from batches made in the late late 80s.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 August 2016, 18:43:39
SKCM Blue is somewhat abysmally documented considering the amount we collectively know about them. It'd be cool if the community could pool resources to find out as much as we can about these lovely things :D .Yeah, definitely D: . Of course, the reason they couldn't is because they didn't have to. As soon as making keyswitches turned less lucrative, they just focused on different things. Alps is a massive company so in a way it wasn't much more than an inconvenience. Cherry never had that choice, so they had to stay in the market.
That's true, Alps is a much larger company. It's easy to see them as the underdog when you're just looking at these to as if they were just keyboard switch companies, but Alps always had more going for it. It wasn't just a start-up that couldn't keep up with Cherry. :PYES!!!!!!!!!! :D :eek:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/WFXLP8E.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hu6scjU.jpg?1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/iFZNPwJ.jpg)
More pics soon, need to crack this beast open and clean! Its all seems to be surface dirt and nothing serious. The Blues have Alps logos as well.
Photek bought one off off hammergammeler and it also had blue Alps with logos. It seems to be a trend with this one. The only other I've seen that with was the Apple IIc replacement keyboard.Nice! :eek:
That the top housings have Alps logos is particularly interesting, late SKCM Blues it would seem.
EDIT: I am guessing they also have white switchplates too?
If they didn't, I'd be surprised. I have some no logo blues with white switch plates. I wonder if these have long or short plates. I'm guessing they're still long though. Orange had long switch plates even with the logos on the housings.
Gotta wonder HOW late these are, because my Acer and Leading Edge are both from 1989 and don't have switches with the logos. One even has grey switch plates while the other has white. So those two probably used left over stock. I guess these were actually from batches made in the late late 80s.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 18:54:54
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 10 August 2016, 19:13:13
"Case" in point, as it were: I recently acquired a Northgate 101 with white Alps and a Leading Edge DC-2014 with blue Alps. I find the typing experience with the Northgate superior to that of the Leading Edge.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 August 2016, 19:59:23
It's Alps' one defining weakness :'( .
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:17:14
the contrast between a used and an unused Alps board is just staggering. Once you go unused Alps, you never go back.
I don't know that "new" is actually the thing rather than "clean"
I still have an AT101W that I got with a Dell system in the late 1990s that still feels pretty good after *substantial* use (but not abuse), and I got one New-in-Box (but not hermetically sealed-in-plastic) a couple of years ago that was awful. There seemed to be some very fine dust that must have been atmospheric that had gotten all the way in.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:35:32
Post by: chyros on Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:42:15
Is there any way that the design of Alps could be changed so that they're not as susceptible to dust?Tbh I'm not sure what it is about Alps that makes them so susceptible in the first place xD .
You're right, a better term would be "like new" or just "clean and unused". Even NOS boards can be very dirty with some bad luck :/ .
the contrast between a used and an unused Alps board is just staggering. Once you go unused Alps, you never go back.
I don't know that "new" is actually the thing rather than "clean"
I still have an AT101W that I got with a Dell system in the late 1990s that still feels pretty good after *substantial* use (but not abuse), and I got one New-in-Box (but not hermetically sealed-in-plastic) a couple of years ago that was awful. There seemed to be some very fine dust that must have been atmospheric that had gotten all the way in.
Also, I've found that black Alps feel uncharacteristically stiff when completely unused. I've had three completely unused and sealed AT101s over time and they all felt a little rough at first. None of the other Alps switches I've tried had that, not even clones.
If I were a braver man I'd pull an Ellipse and make brand-new SKCM blue boards. But I'm not xD .
Post by: digi on Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:49:13
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:12:12
If I were a braver man I'd pull an Ellipse and make brand-new SKCM blue boards. But I'm not xD .
Yeah, I was going to make a joke about when you make it big on youtube and get rich in about a year or so, to come back to this, but the process of getting all that done and handled and working with factories itself is just really intimidating. You'd have tons to cover before any ground could be made, but we'd all be eternally grateful, haha.
Seriously though, your channel is starting to get a lot more attention these days, which is awesome, man. It's definitely going to blow up at some point.
Funny, I had a debounce issue on a alps switch, literally took it apart, blew some air through it and put it back together. It began to register perfectly...they definitely are more sensitive than all the other inferior switches ;D
I had one do this to me on my Acer. I opened the switch and messed with the contact leaf spring and got it working like a charm again with no issues. It's hard to really kill an Alps switch, but I have encountered some that no kind of shimming or contact bending could fix. Don't know what happens to the contacts that makes them just die, since they're so well-contained and use that spring to push the plates together. Hmm.
I also had an issue with the backspace and space bar not returning properly on one board, and it was the return springs seeming to have worn out or getting softer. The keys would stick at times and it was the most annoying thing. At first, I thought it was a stab issue. Nope. Lubing didn't do a thing. Then I realized it was the return spring and swapping them out worked like a charm.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:27:09
Once you go unused Alps, you never go back.
Quite literally too. :P
Is there any way that the design of Alps could be changed so that they're not as susceptible to dust?Tbh I'm not sure what it is about Alps that makes them so susceptible in the first place xD .
The wear comes from the friction between a dusty slider and the housing, right? Maybe simplifying the design of the slider, perhaps making it plainly rectangular like KPT switches, would help.
If I were a braver man I'd pull an Ellipse and make brand-new SKCM blue boards. But I'm not xD .
If you do ever go through with this, I think a partnership with Matias would be very appropriate and would expedite a number of things, I'd imagine.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:31:02
The bump down in weighting and that old familiar click was nice to return to. <3
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:33:02
tbh I almost don't want to use this SKCL brown board as my daily driver because It's in such pristine condition and I want to preserve it! Need to get a board with something slightly less obscure and rare like some SKCM Orange
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:33:05
Does this mean that you can never use them? ;)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:35:05
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:36:36
Do linear Alps typically hold up a little a little longer so long as they remain clean? You don't have to worry about the metal on the click leaf wearing out.
I think it's about the same for both. I'd say linear alps are a little more vulnerable ONLY because their entire feeling rides on that smooth linear travel. I'd say you don't have anything to worry about when it comes to the switches just suddenly changing feel on you. They won't!
Pretty much only keyboards stored in junk yards or in otherwise really dusty (especially fine dust) areas will have issues. I keep all my keyboards in boxes or cases when I'm not using except for the one Docutech I like to display and whatever keyboard is in the current rotation at my desk.
So yeah, unless your place is crazy dusty, you should be fine, especially if you store your boards away or keep them in rotation.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:38:39
Do linear Alps typically hold up a little a little longer so long as they remain clean? You don't have to worry about the metal on the click leaf wearing out.
I think it's about the same for both. I'd say linear alps are a little more vulnerable ONLY because their entire feeling rides on that smooth linear travel. I'd say you don't have anything to worry about when it comes to the switches just suddenly changing feel on you. They won't!
Pretty much only keyboards stored in junk yards or in otherwise really dusty (especially fine dust) areas will have issues. I keep all my keyboards in boxes or cases when I'm not using except for the one Docutech I like to display and whatever keyboard is in the current rotation at my desk.
So yeah, unless your place is crazy dusty, you should be fine, especially if you store your boards away or keep them in rotation.
I imagine that the lack of a tactile/clicky leaf also means one less contact point by which a slider can wear out.
That said, I don't think wear on the slider is an issue as long as you're only considering later SKCM switches. You can simply swap sliders if they are damaged, even for ones from Matias switches. It is the early SKCM switches that are lubricated that are irreplaceable, at this point.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:44:21
Post by: emdude on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:50:57
EDIT: Ah, according to the DT wiki, the sharper edge is to reduce drag, which makes sense.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:00:51
The SKCM Blue's use long white plates w/ logo's. Model number is T9102. I think in that other geekhack thread where it was T9201 was just a typo. 102 makes sense since the oem model number is FDA-102. The chip on it is from 1989.
Pics!
(http://i.imgur.com/8QaYIUp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/mcY4J51.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KuD2p5W.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bkoQQXG.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:11:39
I technically did it on my SKCL Browns in my NCR and SKCL Greens in my Hammer Alps board because I lubed the springs to get rid of that terrible ping, but yeah. Most blue Alps boards I've had, if not all of them, except for a really grimy FK-2001 from TaoBao, didn't really need any cleaning switch wise and they all felt great.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:25:29
You actually opened and cleaned every switch? It looked clean enough to not have to do that, haha. That's dedication. I only did that on my Docutechs because of the rarity of the switches.Yea. I've done my SGI twice (before and after switch swap) and FK-3001 as well. In the 3001 they made a huge difference and in the other three times more minor. I did it in this case since someone had spilled something on in the past and wanted to make sure it was all good.
I technically did it on my SKCL Browns in my NCR and SKCL Greens in my Hammer Alps board because I lubed the springs to get rid of that terrible ping, but yeah. Most blue Alps boards I've had, if not all of them, except for a really grimy FK-2001 from TaoBao, didn't really need any cleaning and they all felt great.
Specfially in this case it made them feel a bit more snappy and tactile. Minor imo, but do it once and your done. The only board I didn't do was my Greens from my Zenith since they felt perfect. Still a pain in the ass even though I've gotten quite quick at it. Total time for restro was around 4-5 hours straight. I'll put on twitch or a podcast so I don't get bored.
Total around 750 switches at least, with all that and the Taobao stuff i'm slowly restoring. Not counting either the couple times I've swapped my pcb mount cherry board. Some goddamn dedication alright :confused:
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:37:01
You actually opened and cleaned every switch? It looked clean enough to not have to do that, haha. That's dedication. I only did that on my Docutechs because of the rarity of the switches.Yea. I've done my SGI twice (before and after switch swap) and FK-3001 as well. In the 3001 they made a huge difference and in the other three times more minor. I did it in this case since someone had spilled something on in the past and wanted to make sure it was all good.
I technically did it on my SKCL Browns in my NCR and SKCL Greens in my Hammer Alps board because I lubed the springs to get rid of that terrible ping, but yeah. Most blue Alps boards I've had, if not all of them, except for a really grimy FK-2001 from TaoBao, didn't really need any cleaning and they all felt great.
Specfially in this case it made them feel a bit more snappy and tactile. Minor imo, but do it once and your done. The only board I didn't do was my Greens from my Zenith since they felt perfect. Still a pain in the ass even though I've gotten quite quick at it. Total time for restro was around 4-5 hours straight. I'll put on twitch or a podcast so I don't get bored.
Total around 750 switches at least, with all that and the Taobao stuff i'm slowly restoring. Not counting either the couple times I've swapped my pcb mount cherry board. Some goddamn dedication alright :confused:
Oh snap, someone didn't actually spill something in that Packard Bell, did they?
Yeah, that's definitely some dedication though. The Packard looks clean! :thumb: Only thing I always thought was funky on that board was the bottom plate and its feet.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:42:53
Not exactly sure if it was a spill but some white goo-y stuff on the bottom of the numpad. Under an Alt key also there was also some weird stuff that looked like a spider web. All cleaned up however :thumb:You actually opened and cleaned every switch? It looked clean enough to not have to do that, haha. That's dedication. I only did that on my Docutechs because of the rarity of the switches.Yea. I've done my SGI twice (before and after switch swap) and FK-3001 as well. In the 3001 they made a huge difference and in the other three times more minor. I did it in this case since someone had spilled something on in the past and wanted to make sure it was all good.
I technically did it on my SKCL Browns in my NCR and SKCL Greens in my Hammer Alps board because I lubed the springs to get rid of that terrible ping, but yeah. Most blue Alps boards I've had, if not all of them, except for a really grimy FK-2001 from TaoBao, didn't really need any cleaning and they all felt great.
Specfially in this case it made them feel a bit more snappy and tactile. Minor imo, but do it once and your done. The only board I didn't do was my Greens from my Zenith since they felt perfect. Still a pain in the ass even though I've gotten quite quick at it. Total time for restro was around 4-5 hours straight. I'll put on twitch or a podcast so I don't get bored.
Total around 750 switches at least, with all that and the Taobao stuff i'm slowly restoring. Not counting either the couple times I've swapped my pcb mount cherry board. Some goddamn dedication alright :confused:
Oh snap, someone didn't actually spill something in that Packard Bell, did they?
Yeah, that's definitely some dedication though. The Packard looks clean! :thumb: Only thing I always thought was funky on that board was the bottom plate and its feet.
Yea, to remove the metal plate you have to put up the rubber feet. Its not attached to the plate at all unlike other boards. Overall a good build.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:47:34
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371704655117?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/371704655117?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:51:31
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:52:37
doubtless that it was a good deal though.Bought this, what do you guys think? couldnt really pass up this deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371704655117?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/371704655117?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
tempted me the other day, but I don't like clicky boards too much hahah
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:54:04
(http://i.imgur.com/7XHMcQN.jpg?2)
Bought this, what do you guys think? couldnt really pass up this deal.Great deal. Those ANSI ones always go for a lot more than the BAE's.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371704655117?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/371704655117?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 10 August 2016, 23:04:00
The Acer KB101A definitely has screws to keep the PCB pinned to the plate. I forget if the LE DC-3014 does. Definitely cool though and it's a good way to kill flex indeed.
Did you know the Docutechs had no screws at all? Aside from a screw or two to pin the PCB and plate together. Taking the case apart is all a matter of releasing tabs, which is how a lot of Cherry cases are, actually. The NCR case just uses tabs too.
All metal bottom boards are top mounted too when it comes to the plate, which is neat. Gives things a bit more of a cushioned feel with some natural give.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 10 August 2016, 23:05:23
I think I've seen a lot of my boards with screws in the PCB to keep them together. Ugh, it's been so long since I've taken apart the FAME, but I think it did as well. For a board whose descendants almost all had shoddy build quality, the FAME I have was pretty well built.I know that omnikeys have their pcbs bolted to their plates.
The Acer KB101A definitely has screws to keep the PCB pinned to the plate. I forget if the LE DC-3014 does. Definitely cool though and it's a good way to kill flex indeed.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 11 August 2016, 03:17:49
Post by: chyros on Thu, 11 August 2016, 03:45:01
I dunno, frankly I doubt it, because I'd be marketing a product specifically to out-perform his own xD .If I were a braver man I'd pull an Ellipse and make brand-new SKCM blue boards. But I'm not xD .
If you do ever go through with this, I think a partnership with Matias would be very appropriate and would expedite a number of things, I'd imagine.
Yeah, I was going to make a joke about when you make it big on youtube and get rich in about a year or so, to come back to this, but the process of getting all that done and handled and working with factories itself is just really intimidating. You'd have tons to cover before any ground could be made, but we'd all be eternally grateful, haha.Haha I seriously doubt that, vintage mechanical keyboards aren't exactly mainstream xD .
Seriously though, your channel is starting to get a lot more attention these days, which is awesome, man. It's definitely going to blow up at some point.
Funny, I had a debounce issue on a alps switch, literally took it apart, blew some air through it and put it back together. It began to register perfectly...they definitely are more sensitive than all the other inferior switches ;DI'm actually typing on the only Alps keyboard with a chattering switch that I have. The 0 key doesn't register properly, and chatters. I've tried to clean it out but it only relieved it momentarily. In truth, Alps switches are quite resilient against chatter, much more than Cherry, due to the design of the switchplate, which is quite durable. Fortunately I have hundreds of spares xD .
@Chyros: To quote your words above, "Once you go unused Alps, you never go back."Well, yes, ironically xD . I almost never use my Acer because I'm afraid of somehow damaging it xD .
Does this mean that you can never use them? ;)
$70 for an Omnikey seems like a reasonable deal, you are dealing with a board that is arguably more durable than the Model M.I'd say it's built more like a Model F than an M xD .
Post by: jaffers on Thu, 11 August 2016, 04:35:11
Post by: chyros on Thu, 11 August 2016, 06:57:22
I've got more alps boards than cherry now and I didn't even have alps boards last week. What the ****It's a deep, spiraling vortex from which there is no escaping :p .
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 11 August 2016, 07:12:30
I know that omnikeys have their pcbs bolted to their plates.
Makes for a problem when you have a rusty plate that you want to clean and paint. The only realistic way to do it is to remove all the stabilizer clips, clean off the rust, and slip strips of paper in between the PCB and the plate to mask from spray and over-spray. Then re-insert the clips and away you go.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 09:23:18
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 10:15:40
On my avant prime I removed the bolts with a soldering iron and alot of patience. I dont know what possessed them to make them want to solder the bolts to the pcb, but it sure is ****ty to remove.
I know that omnikeys have their pcbs bolted to their plates.
Makes for a problem when you have a rusty plate that you want to clean and paint. The only realistic way to do it is to remove all the stabilizer clips, clean off the rust, and slip strips of paper in between the PCB and the plate to mask from spray and over-spray. Then re-insert the clips and away you go.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 15:59:07
I guess these things really are susceptible to dust lol.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 16:22:10
Post by: emdude on Thu, 11 August 2016, 16:30:55
EDIT: I think I know which laptop-less keyboard you are talking about. Hope you can nab it!
(http://i.imgur.com/JLaN0Kc.gif)
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 16:37:34
Therefore I present just a simple ascii cat :D
Code: [Select]
/\_/\
( o.o )
> ^ <
Post by: E3E on Thu, 11 August 2016, 16:46:13
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 17:04:22
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 18:14:23
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 11 August 2016, 18:20:28
One seller even reduced the price still further after he damaged the ribbon connector.
Of course, you also get sellers who do not want to break up the system.
Either way, with patience and luck, I have managed to get several of these at fairly reasonable prices. However, 5140s seem to be becoming less plentiful and prices are escalating.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 11 August 2016, 18:36:15
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 19:00:36
I don't know if it's that they're less plentiful; they seem just as common as they've been in the past year, but it's as it always has been: you get some sellers that list them very painfully high prices and others that list them for scrap prices. It's like this for the Apple IIc A2S4100 systems as well. :-XYea. Its either super expensive or dirt cheap. More with the IIC's than the 5140's I feel. Seen more beat up ones with missing caps go for $30-40
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 11 August 2016, 20:36:36
I would bid on that, but I hate bidding against other geekhackers. all yours pal
The seller was initially going to sell it to me last night once he dropped the price, even talked and requested an invoice for lower shipping. Pretty disappointing to see a message this morning about listing it for auction.
Anyway, I am impatient to try brown alps, plz don't bid against me.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 11 August 2016, 20:52:39
I would bid on that, but I hate bidding against other geekhackers. all yours pal
The seller was initially going to sell it to me last night once he dropped the price, even talked and requested an invoice for lower shipping. Pretty disappointing to see a message this morning about listing it for auction.
Anyway, I am impatient to try brown alps, plz don't bid against me.
I've had this happen to me too many times just the same, brother.
It sucks.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 21:14:49
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 12 August 2016, 04:47:43
Post by: chyros on Fri, 12 August 2016, 04:55:32
Did anyone here ever try those clicky green Alps clones on those XM Ducky's awhile back? I've heard the build quality of the board itself was complete trash but interested in the switches, they had a neat sound.I own a loose switch, it's one of the copper leaf-based clones, which I've found lacking, personally. Of course it's hard to say without a whole board though. Tbh of all the Alps clones I've found, there were only few I considered interesting, and this was not one of them :p .
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 12 August 2016, 07:27:57
Did anyone here ever try those clicky green Alps clones on those XM Ducky's awhile back? I've heard the build quality of the board itself was complete trash but interested in the switches, they had a neat sound.
The board is not bad, people are quick to criticize anything, look at the relentless trashing that Unicomp receives.
Personally, I don't feel all that much difference between most modern plastic keyboards, although Filco is better.
I have one that I put orange Alps into and populated it mostly with Apple caps, and it is a pretty nice little board.
But those XM switches were not to my taste at all, Matias are much better.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 12 August 2016, 12:35:28
Did anyone here ever try those clicky green Alps clones on those XM Ducky's awhile back? I've heard the build quality of the board itself was complete trash but interested in the switches, they had a neat sound.I too have a loose switch, not very interesting. feels like skbm switches to me. I can send you the loose switch if you want
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 12 August 2016, 13:00:32
Did anyone here ever try those clicky green Alps clones on those XM Ducky's awhile back? I've heard the build quality of the board itself was complete trash but interested in the switches, they had a neat sound.When I first got into mechanical keyboards, before I really knew anything that was the first board I wanted. Had a neat sound like you said.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 12 August 2016, 15:22:24
Did anyone here ever try those clicky green Alps clones on those XM Ducky's awhile back? I've heard the build quality of the board itself was complete trash but interested in the switches, they had a neat sound.When I first got into mechanical keyboards, before I really knew anything that was the first board I wanted. Had a neat sound like you said.
It was almost my first mechanical board, but I was exactly a dollar short, so I had to get a Blackwidow with MX Blues.
There was a video of a guy who used the linear black XM clones and he really didn't like them, apparently the actuation point on them was super-duper high so even the slightest bump would activate the key.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 12 August 2016, 15:36:27
There was a video of a guy who used the linear black XM clones and he really didn't like them, apparently the actuation point on them was super-duper high so even the slightest bump would activate the key.
High actuation is one of the greatest advantages of Alps and similar.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 12 August 2016, 16:40:43
I'm aware of this, but it was even higher.
There was a video of a guy who used the linear black XM clones and he really didn't like them, apparently the actuation point on them was super-duper high so even the slightest bump would activate the key.
High actuation is one of the greatest advantages of Alps and similar.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 12 August 2016, 21:31:05
(http://i.imgur.com/Z0y6b3p.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qTybEhj.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 12 August 2016, 21:47:46
Alps SKCM Green (pine) is my favorite switch aesthetically. I like the kind of off white, but bright color of SKCM Cream a lot too.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 12 August 2016, 21:49:09
Post by: E3E on Fri, 12 August 2016, 21:54:17
This also makes me wonder if some ambitious soul would ever try and produce replacement sliders for SKCM/SKCL switches that are MX compatible. I feel like someone might try it within the next three years. :-X
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 12 August 2016, 22:07:37
There is a 3D model floating around somewhere so I suppose anyone could go and make one.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 12 August 2016, 22:12:30
Those MX to Alps adapters exist but they're damn expensive and not flawless, if I recall they make the keys sit slightly higher up and it makes them look like they're wobblier. I haven't been able to find them.
There is a 3D model floating around somewhere so I suppose anyone could go and make one.
I made my own adapter out of styrene tubing + a rod (and some dremel work) to mount my wingnut cap on my Hammer Alps keyboard, but that was a special thing.
It is true that they cause the caps to sit quite a bit higher, and it's just not a natural look, in my opinion. I don't like the adapters because of that, which is why I was thinking slider swaps, kind of like Topre.
Wait, nevermind. I severely overestimated the size of MX cap stems. The Alps slider dwarfs it. So full slider swaps with MX mounts are feasible.
Post by: unoab on Fri, 12 August 2016, 23:27:16
One issue I see happening is that the mounting stem on the cap might be too wide and mess with the slider's travel into the housing.
Wait, nevermind. I severely overestimated the size of MX cap stems. The Alps slider dwarfs it. So full slider swaps with MX mounts are feasible.
Not too sure what alps switchtops you checked, but the openings on some SKCM oranges I have are about 5.4mm for the smaller dimension of the opening, which is about 0.1mm less than the stems on SA caps which I measured at about 5.5mm, and 0.2mm smaller than some cherry double shots I had around where the stems measure about 5.6mm wide.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 12 August 2016, 23:41:47
Damn, Alps switches are so prettyShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/Z0y6b3p.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qTybEhj.jpg)
Yeah! I love the color of Amber Alps sliders. :-*
As pretty as they are, if they had an MX mount my life would be complete.
Well, there's alps.tw's upcoming i-Rocks switches; granted, they're still clones essentially, but a step in the right direction perhaps?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 12 August 2016, 23:57:10
Not too sure what alps switchtops you checked, but the openings on some SKCM oranges I have are about 5.4mm for the smaller dimension of the opening, which is about 0.1mm less than the stems on SA caps which I measured at about 5.5mm, and 0.2mm smaller than some cherry double shots I had around where the stems measure about 5.6mm wide.
Yeah, it was a quick eyeing. I noticed that the clearance might be too wide vertically, but I didn't want to keep editing my posts and seem like a know-it-all or make the message convoluted.
Yeah, the stems are a hair too wide on OG Cherry doubleshots for vertical clearance. I get a 5.62mm measurment on the stem with my calipers, indeed.
Alps vertical clearance is 5.54mm. Used an SKCL top housing, but they're obviously all the same in that regard, at least with Alps SKCL/SKCM.
I managed to get the stem through a housing with a bit of force, but obviously, this kills the proposition. You'd either have to shave the stems on the caps or the housing opening, which would then just become even more of a dust hazard.
I guess the best solution would be modified top housings AND modified stems withe a Cherry MX mount that still used the same internal dimensions of the original Alps sliders on the bottom end so it wouldn't alter the feel of the stem acting on the tactile or clicky leaves, but then that'd already be too complicated. I don't think anyone makes housings with slits anymore, so it'd probably already be quite an investment. If we use housings without the slits, then that'd alter the feel of almost every popular switch. The only switch it wouldn't effect that people like are bamboo SKCM Green. Some like bamboo SKCM Black, but still.
All to use your favorite Cherry caps. Eh.
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 13 August 2016, 00:05:35
Post by: unoab on Sat, 13 August 2016, 00:10:20
I managed to get the stem through a housing with a bit of force, but obviously, this kills the proposition. You'd either have to shave the stems on the caps or the housing opening, which would then just become even more of a dust hazard.
I guess the best solution would be modified top housings AND modified stems withe a Cherry MX mount that still used the same internal dimensions of the original Alps sliders on the bottom end so it wouldn't alter the feel of the stem acting on the tactile or clicky leaves, but then that'd already be too complicated. I don't think anyone makes housings with slits anymore, so it'd probably already be quite an investment. If we use housings without the slits, then that'd alter the feel of almost every popular switch. The only switch it wouldn't effect that people like are bamboo SKCM Green. Some like bamboo SKCM Black, but still.
All to use your favorite Cherry caps. Eh.
Yea, that's about the same I noticed, cherry caps were a no go without force, SA caps were snug but would go through with a slight interference fit.
And as for the dust, I wonder if someone made a QMX-ish like rubber/silicone top to prevent things from getting around the keycap stem if that could help with some of that, though just like all the other options, it would affect the switch feel too.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 August 2016, 00:27:08
This is going to sound weird, but the skcl brown board still has a very noticable "New Plastic/Electronic" smell to it.
I love that smell! My Docutechs still have it for whatever reason after being used in a print shop like that and even after retrobrighting, lol. My NeXT keyboard also has it.
Now I need to go smell all of my keyboards, dammit. Wow, the smell of electronics is weird and pleasant and probably toxic :P.
I managed to get the stem through a housing with a bit of force, but obviously, this kills the proposition. You'd either have to shave the stems on the caps or the housing opening, which would then just become even more of a dust hazard.
I guess the best solution would be modified top housings AND modified stems withe a Cherry MX mount that still used the same internal dimensions of the original Alps sliders on the bottom end so it wouldn't alter the feel of the stem acting on the tactile or clicky leaves, but then that'd already be too complicated. I don't think anyone makes housings with slits anymore, so it'd probably already be quite an investment. If we use housings without the slits, then that'd alter the feel of almost every popular switch. The only switch it wouldn't effect that people like are bamboo SKCM Green. Some like bamboo SKCM Black, but still.
All to use your favorite Cherry caps. Eh.
Yea, that's about the same I noticed, cherry caps were a no go without force, SA caps were snug but would go through with a slight interference fit.
And as for the dust, I wonder if someone made a QMX-ish like rubber/silicone top to prevent things from getting around the keycap stem if that could help with some of that, though just like all the other options, it would affect the switch feel too.
Yeah, Alps seem so sensitive to any addition or subtraction to the switch, that it would be hard not to really just end up with something that's not quite right. I think part of the appeal to Alps is FINDING your favorite key caps, though the hardcore Cherry collectors do the same with the OG cap sets and such, but it's almost your only option for Alps.
Cobbling together boards from parts is fun, as well as finding boards with cool switches and documenting them. From hoping your get SKCM Blues in a vintage board that can have a dozen different switches, to trying to track down and find some of the rarer switches. It's an awesome if not frustrating at times aspect to Alps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 01:19:59
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 13 August 2016, 02:01:55
Geekhack 2016
Post by: romevi on Sat, 13 August 2016, 08:03:16
"Now I need to go smell all of my keyboards, dammit. "
Geekhack 2016
You didn't before?
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 12:55:05
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 13:23:22
More
(http://i.imgur.com/z24HG4y.jpg)
Any ideas how to proceed from here? It's not as flat as it looks in the pic. It's not enough that switch pins are bent, but they also went and did this with the screws, just so that they could mess with people some 20 years later :). I tried cutting the solder too, but only managed to cut some traces. Luckily, the pins that are connected through them still have continuity.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 13 August 2016, 13:32:39
Just got my omnikey in the mail, the board is dirty but the switches feel nice and clean. I was wondering, do any of you have the alternate ctrl and caps lock keycaps? I would love to get them.I only have the one where the ctrl sits on the caps lock space and vice versa. I never use that layout though.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 13:33:53
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 14:03:07
ooh those are the caps I want! I can send you the normal caps lock key and the normal ctrl and you can send me your caps. how does that sound?Just got my omnikey in the mail, the board is dirty but the switches feel nice and clean. I was wondering, do any of you have the alternate ctrl and caps lock keycaps? I would love to get them.I only have the one where the ctrl sits on the caps lock space and vice versa. I never use that layout though.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 13 August 2016, 14:08:37
@mike52787: You can purchase the extra Ctrl and CapsLock keys from "Northgate Bob":
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/
They are somewhat expensive ($10 plus shipping for the set of two plus a wire key puller), but they are the genuine article and I believe they are unused.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 14:12:14
@alh84001: Do you need to separate the plate from the PCB? I've heard that this is to be avoided if at all possible on the Northgate Omnikey 101 keyboards. However, if you are going ahead anyway, did you use some form of a "solder sucker" when desoldering?Thanks! I will look into that and give him a call. Do you know what he sells ultras for? I may sell this 101 and buy an ultra from him. Were ultras ever made with gold labels/blue alps?
@mike52787: You can purchase the extra Ctrl and CapsLock keys from "Northgate Bob":
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/
They are somewhat expensive ($10 plus shipping for the set of two plus a wire key puller), but they are the genuine article and I believe they are unused.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 14:25:42
@alh84001: Do you need to separate the plate from the PCB? I've heard that this is to be avoided if at all possible on the Northgate Omnikey 101 keyboards. However, if you are going ahead anyway, did you use some form of a "solder sucker" when desoldering?
Yes. At first I used a solder sucker, and then I tried with wick. However, it seems that the issue is that there is so much soldering tin, that it can't get liquified. At least that's what I think it is.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 13 August 2016, 14:29:43
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 14:38:30
@mike52787: You can call or email Bob for availability and prices. I think that the Omni 101 is $150 plus shipping, but I don't know the prices for his various others, except a gold label Ultra 102 with blue Alps that I bought for $225 plus shipping. Some time ago, I also bought a NIB Wang 725-3770 from him for $125 plus shipping, but prices may have gone up since then. If you buy a Northgate from him, I think he might throw in the Caps/Ctrl keys for free. He also does repair, cleaning, and refurbishing of Nothgate and some other keyboards.Sounds a bit expensive, but from what ive gathered they are professionally refurbished and cleaned.My 101 needs a good cleaning, but I believe my endgame board would be an omnikey ultra with new old stock blue alps.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 13 August 2016, 15:41:05
I doubt they'd have the same texture and level of yellowing tbh xD .ooh those are the caps I want! I can send you the normal caps lock key and the normal ctrl and you can send me your caps. how does that sound?Just got my omnikey in the mail, the board is dirty but the switches feel nice and clean. I was wondering, do any of you have the alternate ctrl and caps lock keycaps? I would love to get them.I only have the one where the ctrl sits on the caps lock space and vice versa. I never use that layout though.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 August 2016, 16:57:37
I received mine yesterday. Omnikey 101. I tried to do full disassembly today and got stuck on the last bolts. Out of all the bolts that hold the PCB and plate together all but one were clean and were easy to unscrew. The last one was soldered (I guess) and I went gung-ho with the soldering iron expecting to quickly desolder the tin and get to the bolt. Alas, it was not meant to be. Here's the resultMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/z24HG4y.jpg)
Any ideas how to proceed from here? It's not as flat as it looks in the pic. It's not enough that switch pins are bent, but they also went and did this with the screws, just so that they could mess with people some 20 years later :). I tried cutting the solder too, but only managed to cut some traces. Luckily, the pins that are connected through them still have continuity.
Make sure to use flux on this giant joint and use a tip that has more surface area. A desoldering gun would likely work well, at least with a larger nozzle to cover that bit. Try adding new solder to the joint too.
Old joints are usually really stubborn because of the oxidation, so using flux or adding in fresh solder should help. Going at it cold is an uphill battle, really.
@mike52787: You can call or email Bob for availability and prices. I think that the Omni 101 is $150 plus shipping, but I don't know the prices for his various others, except a gold label Ultra 102 with blue Alps that I bought for $225 plus shipping. Some time ago, I also bought a NIB Wang 725-3770 from him for $125 plus shipping, but prices may have gone up since then. If you buy a Northgate from him, I think he might throw in the Caps/Ctrl keys for free. He also does repair, cleaning, and refurbishing of Nothgate and some other keyboards.Sounds a bit expensive, but from what ive gathered they are professionally refurbished and cleaned.My 101 needs a good cleaning, but I believe my endgame board would be an omnikey ultra with new old stock blue alps.
If it doesn't need a complete plate refurbishing (ie, rusted out plate), then it shouldn't be that expensive at all (as in, that guy is heavily overpriced). You should be able to clean it yourself though. What's the extent of the cleaning and restoration you need done? Any retrobright work?
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 17:58:28
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 August 2016, 18:03:35
I wasnt talking about sending mine in for refurbishment, I was thinking about buying an omnikey ultra from him. He charges 200$ for an omnikey ultra, completely refurbished.
If that's blue Alps, that's fine. If that's white, then that's terrible.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 18:05:46
Post by: chyros on Sat, 13 August 2016, 18:10:48
I know its high. I probably wont do it. Omnikey ultras never came with blues afaikNo, they seem to have phased out by the time they came up with the Ultra. Which is why I'm looking for a blue Alps 102 rather than an Ultra :D .
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 August 2016, 18:22:14
The Omnikey 102 has a strange layout though. Fohat's Omnikey 101s with blue Alps swapped in sound great, though I know Chyros isn't an ANSI fan.
What do you guys think of that strange Mac-oriented Omnikey that came around on eBay a while back?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Northgate-OmniKey-Omnimac-Ultra-Keyboard-/252404831624?hash=item3ac4801588%3Ag%3A~~EAAOSwintXSKJl&nma=true&si=9Ba%252FCfHEbEBqYK8fClKFuHZquqs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 18:46:24
(http://i.imgur.com/lybqEvo.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 13 August 2016, 19:27:20
Post by: E3E on Sat, 13 August 2016, 19:48:59
Forgot to post this pic I took when I was restoring the Packard Bell. No rust :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lybqEvo.jpg)
Shiny~ I'm still jealous. :P
Post by: chyros on Sat, 13 August 2016, 21:12:18
Forgot to post this pic I took when I was restoring the Packard Bell. No rust :)Aw man, doesn't that look smexy? :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/lybqEvo.jpg)
Yep, only those gold label 102s, though they can also have white Alps in rare circumstances, kind of like that DC-3014 that just sold on eBay recently. That's the only one I've ever heard of with white Alps.I can't see the picture anymore, but I remember the board vaguely. I'm not too surprised actually, Northgate appeared to be obsessed with making the keyboard compatible with everyone and their dog xd . Probably why their keyboards outlived them as a company :p .
The Omnikey 102 has a strange layout though. Fohat's Omnikey 101s with blue Alps swapped in sound great, though I know Chyros isn't an ANSI fan.
What do you guys think of that strange Mac-oriented Omnikey that came around on eBay a while back?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Northgate-OmniKey-Omnimac-Ultra-Keyboard-/252404831624?hash=item3ac4801588%3Ag%3A~~EAAOSwintXSKJl&nma=true&si=9Ba%252FCfHEbEBqYK8fClKFuHZquqs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 13 August 2016, 22:20:51
I can see the picsForgot to post this pic I took when I was restoring the Packard Bell. No rust :)Aw man, doesn't that look smexy? :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/lybqEvo.jpg)Yep, only those gold label 102s, though they can also have white Alps in rare circumstances, kind of like that DC-3014 that just sold on eBay recently. That's the only one I've ever heard of with white Alps.I can't see the picture anymore, but I remember the board vaguely. I'm not too surprised actually, Northgate appeared to be obsessed with making the keyboard compatible with everyone and their dog xd . Probably why their keyboards outlived them as a company :p .
The Omnikey 102 has a strange layout though. Fohat's Omnikey 101s with blue Alps swapped in sound great, though I know Chyros isn't an ANSI fan.
What do you guys think of that strange Mac-oriented Omnikey that came around on eBay a while back?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Northgate-OmniKey-Omnimac-Ultra-Keyboard-/252404831624?hash=item3ac4801588%3Ag%3A~~EAAOSwintXSKJl&nma=true&si=9Ba%252FCfHEbEBqYK8fClKFuHZquqs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
(http://i.imgur.com/p41Tec8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1wGoYob.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GEa1hK6.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 14 August 2016, 03:56:13
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 August 2016, 04:53:05
I have a question, what are Alps Kingsavers? Is it just a name for any customized TKL alps board?
They are a specific custom aluminum-cased TKL made by Duck years back. It has a very specific layout and can only use key caps from a Wang 725.
It's a flat cased design with aluminum cone feet. Can't dig up pics atm.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 August 2016, 05:58:34
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/14069807139_5c247bbd1a.jpg)I have a question, what are Alps Kingsavers? Is it just a name for any customized TKL alps board?
They are a specific custom aluminum-cased TKL made by Duck years back. It has a very specific layout and can only use key caps from a Wang 725.
It's a flat cased design with aluminum cone feet. Can't dig up pics atm.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 14 August 2016, 06:10:58
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 08:49:18
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 August 2016, 08:51:17
most of us would kill to have one, they rarely come up for sale and when they do, theyre not cheap.
I kick myself for not buying one that Akimbo offered to sell me in the mid-$200s a few years ago, but I was broke.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 August 2016, 09:43:49
Holy ****balls, $200?! Can't you just make one yourself for less than that?! Oomost of us would kill to have one, they rarely come up for sale and when they do, theyre not cheap.
I kick myself for not buying one that Akimbo offered to sell me in the mid-$200s a few years ago, but I was broke.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:10:40
Holy ****balls, $200?! Can't you just make one yourself for less than that?! Oomost of us would kill to have one, they rarely come up for sale and when they do, theyre not cheap.
I kick myself for not buying one that Akimbo offered to sell me in the mid-$200s a few years ago, but I was broke.
Do you no how much they sell for these days? Like $700. :P I bought my Orion v2 with an Alps PCB and plate for $740 and invested over $1100~ total with the hotswap modding, buying mint AT101 caps, dyeing equipment, etc. The sockets for the hot swapping cost $100 alone (getting them from the UK was actually a lot cheaper than ordering them from digikey when I used a proxy).
I sold both of the MX plates that came with my Orion which took away $180 from the expenses, but I still spent around the $1000 mark on this keyboard, haha.
I invested $660-700~ in my Hammer Alps board that's in my display picture.
Yeah, the prices are crazy, dude.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:32:07
Do you no how much they sell for these days? Like $700. :P I bought my Orion v2 with an Alps PCB and plate for $740 and invested over $1100~ total with the hotswap modding, buying mint AT101 caps, dyeing equipment, etc. The sockets for the hot swapping cost $100 alone (getting them from the UK was actually a lot cheaper than ordering them from digikey when I used a proxy).What the actual ****, dude xD . That kind of money nets you an overpriced blue Alps board xD .
I sold both of the MX plates that came with my Orion which took away $180 from the expenses, but I still spent around the $1000 mark on this keyboard, haha.
I invested $660-700~ in my Hammer Alps board that's in my display picture.
Yeah, the prices are crazy, dude.
That said, I might have to start my own Alps build soon xD.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:37:03
What the actual ****, dude
I think that the kits were about $350+, in maybe 2012 dollars. Not including switches and caps.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 August 2016, 10:38:03
What the actual ****, dude xD . That kind of money nets you an overpriced blue Alps board xD .
That said, I might have to start my own Alps build soon xD.
That's essentially what the customs are, haha (that's a good joke though, lol; reminds me of the DC-3014 that just sold). I think the personalization (the weight is pretty nice too, but not everything) is what sells it for me though. I hot swapped most of my Alps board for even more variety, so they can be more than just a single switch board or whatever. I only actually switch up switches on one of my hotswap boards often. The rest kind of stay as they are, but it is super convenient.
ESPECIALLY when you're trying to put a switch back together on a nearly 8 lb keyboard after opening it and there's no good way to do so without seriously maiming yourself or the keyboard. Popping the switch out makes it so much easier, haha.
That said, where customs have that personalization value for me, there's something about the history that vintages have that charms me more than customs ever could. It's why I have a seriously hard time dismantling any vintages unless there's good reason to.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sun, 14 August 2016, 11:35:27
:)
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 11:37:49
****Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QcAQkc5.jpg)
:)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 August 2016, 12:38:30
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QcAQkc5.jpg)
:)
Luigi, at it again with the most Kingsavers this side of GeekHack.
(http://i.imgur.com/p2k31Sr.jpg)
Random pic of the Orion because pretty gold sockets.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 August 2016, 12:53:40
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 August 2016, 13:00:41
The space bar on the left one is a little yellow.
I'd say the left and right one both seem yellow, but then that's probably the lighting. Those Wang caps have a bit more of a cream tinge to them than I imagined. The closest PBT caps I've seen come to neutral grey have been the IBM Multistation newer caps, and the DocuTech/6085 key caps.
Not sure how warm or cold the SGI Granite (grey mod) alphas are. I only have the beige ones, and those alphas have a weird reddish tinge I dislike. The AT101 PBT set has a warm egg nog kind of hue not too dissimilar to how these Wangs appear, except these caps seem to have a uniform color with no differences between mods and alphas (except for the f row and the nav/arrow cluster).
Post by: emdude on Sun, 14 August 2016, 13:12:21
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 14 August 2016, 15:36:52
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 14 August 2016, 17:58:14
I have still been working on things in my spare time, most recently I began restoring a real (not painted like my previous one) Black Dell AT101W and swapping in Orange Alps. I painted the plate and began soldering in switches but I'm not done yet:
(http://i.imgur.com/LuL8OXg.png)
Also stole klennkellon's to put a mini "switch tester" under the print screen, scroll lock and pause cluster:
(http://i.imgur.com/tZZABJX.jpg)
Sorry for the potato quality :p
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 14 August 2016, 18:07:24
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 14 August 2016, 18:49:36
Black Dell AT101W and swapping in Orange Alps.
Pretty much what I did. Makes for a wonderful board with the PBT caps. I swapped in the weight bar from one of the old ones and padded the case.
Feels even better with the AEK style caps but they are goofy and don't make a realistic set.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 August 2016, 19:07:17
Someone is offering me an FK-2001 from 93' made in the USA for $40, it looks like it's in great condition, think it's worth it? I've never heard of one made in the US.Me neither Oo . All the ones I know were made in Asia Oo . By '93 it probably came with clones, but with one like this you never know. It's pretty hard to mistake it as well because it says clearly on the label normally.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 14 August 2016, 21:54:02
It says the types of switches on the label?Someone is offering me an FK-2001 from 93' made in the USA for $40, it looks like it's in great condition, think it's worth it? I've never heard of one made in the US.Me neither Oo . All the ones I know were made in Asia Oo . By '93 it probably came with clones, but with one like this you never know. It's pretty hard to mistake it as well because it says clearly on the label normally.
BTW, I did see a few other pictures of a 93' US made 2001 and though it was in /Japanese it looks like it may be using some clicky Alps style white Omron. But as we've said before the 2001 is a wheel of fortune.
http://hw001.spaaqs.ne.jp/kaineko2/album20120229.html
If anyone here reads Japanese and would translate it I would be grateful.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 August 2016, 22:08:53
The pictures aren't great, but I -think- I see the distinctive Alps tabs, so maybe they're real Alps. I also see slits, so they seem legit in this case.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 14 August 2016, 22:44:02
Huh, that doesn't look like an Omron to me.On the deskauthority site the style Omrons the slider looks just like the Alps slider.
The pictures aren't great, but I -think- I see the distinctive Alps tabs, so maybe they're real Alps. I also see slits, so they seem legit in this case.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Omron_Alps-style_switch
Post by: E3E on Sun, 14 August 2016, 23:46:11
Huh, that doesn't look like an Omron to me.On the deskauthority site the style Omrons the slider looks just like the Alps slider.
The pictures aren't great, but I -think- I see the distinctive Alps tabs, so maybe they're real Alps. I also see slits, so they seem legit in this case.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Omron_Alps-style_switch
These are definitely Alps though:
(http://puu.sh/qBN0l/3c92d0f5e3.jpg)
You can see the typical circular stamp mark on the bottom left that is typical of genuine Alps switches.
(http://puu.sh/qBN4f/d329823152.jpg)
And zoomed in as much as possible, you can faintly see the Alps logo on the top housing.
In the typing video, they compare with white Omrons, but at least in those pics, they're Alps.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 15 August 2016, 00:40:01
I was starting to become under the impression that maybe only the American ones used the Omrons for some reason.
I think I'm going to buy it, I'll report back here with pictures when it arrives for *gags* keyboard science.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 15 August 2016, 01:13:29
I think that's where the Avant Prime and that weird black Omnikey come from.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 15 August 2016, 01:17:37
Haha, good luck. It's interesting that Focus even had any US made keyboards, considering that they're speculated to have made the Omnikeys, and I think all of those were made in Taiwan afaik. I know Northgate sold the design off to some other companies though.Wait what? Wouldn't expect them to had made something like the Omnikey, which is built like carbon nanotudes compared Focus's usual "meh" build quality.
I think that's where the Avant Prime and that weird black Omnikey come from.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 15 August 2016, 01:33:20
Haha, good luck. It's interesting that Focus even had any US made keyboards, considering that they're speculated to have made the Omnikeys, and I think all of those were made in Taiwan afaik. I know Northgate sold the design off to some other companies though.Wait what? Wouldn't expect them to had made something like the Omnikey, which is built like carbon nanotudes compared Focus's usual "meh" build quality.
I think that's where the Avant Prime and that weird black Omnikey come from.
Have you ever seen the Focus FK-555? It bears striking similarities to the Northgate Omnikey. Some think that Focus just cloned the Omnikey, but I'm not sure. I feel like the 555 came out before the Omnikey.
Also, both the 555 and FK-747 have been spotted with Northgate Systems badges/stickers on their bezel.
Here's my FK-555:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/hGk0Cf1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7ATdY41.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LwSdgL3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9oudCQc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7ATdY41.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LwSdgL3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/b8FLvoa.jpg)
The Focus FK-747/727 and the 555 had really similar design cues. The back being powder coated white with those same feet that the Omnikey uses is very strange.
I do think there's a connection, especially because of the models with Northgate stickers.
But yeah, later Focuses were built pretty shoddily, I hear. I've never actually owned one. Well, unless you count the ruined PCB/Plate combo with scattered caps I got from TaoBao.
Also, the 555 is one of the heaviest metal backed boards I own.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 15 August 2016, 06:30:38
Northgate probably didn't make them themselves, as it'd be weird for an American company and distributor to operate solely out of Asia, but whether Focus made both or someone else did is not known yet. Regardless, Focus and Northgate have been intertwined from very early on.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 15 August 2016, 10:40:20
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 15 August 2016, 11:03:24
I have still been working on things in my spare time, most recently I began restoring a real (not painted like my previous one) Black Dell AT101W and swapping in Orange Alps. I painted the plate and began soldering in switches but I'm not done yet:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LuL8OXg.png)
This looks great. A nice little build right there.
I have a question, what are Alps Kingsavers? Is it just a name for any customized TKL alps board?
They are a specific custom aluminum-cased TKL made by Duck years back. It has a very specific layout and can only use key caps from a Wang 725.
It's a flat cased design with aluminum cone feet. Can't dig up pics atm.
I was fortunate enough to buy one off Akimbo by way of jdcarpe (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58776.0). Some thoughts and pics there if you're interested. Easily my second favorite keyboard.
Did anyone here ever try those clicky green Alps clones on those XM Ducky's awhile back? I've heard the build quality of the board itself was complete trash but interested in the switches, they had a neat sound.
I bought one of those with the white clones a while back at MK. It was easily the worst keyboard I've bought. And those Green XM Clones were horrible. They were gritty and plasticky. I really hated them and that board. Smelled awful too. Dunno why factory fresh smell was a good thing earlier in this thread lol.
Post by: lunas on Mon, 15 August 2016, 12:27:34
They feel pretty clean, but I don't have a point of reference for what a clean set feels like. Would it be pretty obvious (either feel or visually inside) if these had dust/contamination issues? The plate and keys were pretty bad, but the switch action seems pretty smooth to me.
I also lubed a few, and can hardly tell the difference. Still debating if I bother with lube, but if I'm going to open them all up, it's not much of an extra step.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 15 August 2016, 12:34:57
I just picked up an Apple M0116 off eBay, finally my first chance to try out Alps. On arrival I discovered the board was in pretty bad shape with nasty stuff all over the plate and keycaps. Lucky me though, the keycaps cleaned up very nicely, and surprisingly the switches (salmon) seem to be pretty clean. I've opened a few switches and found very little to worry about inside. I've desoldered and plan to put these on an Infinity board.Dont bother with lubing salmon alps. if theyre clean, they should be very smooth with a pronounced tactile bump. if they feels good, dont bother opening them up, its a long process that you wont enjoy.
They feel pretty clean, but I don't have a point of reference for what a clean set feels like. Would it be pretty obvious (either feel or visually inside) if these had dust/contamination issues? The plate and keys were pretty bad, but the switch action seems pretty smooth to me.
I also lubed a few, and can hardly tell the difference. Still debating if I bother with lube, but if I'm going to open them all up, it's not much of an extra step.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 15 August 2016, 13:32:14
Indeed! Worse, it might not even work, or make them worse D: .I just picked up an Apple M0116 off eBay, finally my first chance to try out Alps. On arrival I discovered the board was in pretty bad shape with nasty stuff all over the plate and keycaps. Lucky me though, the keycaps cleaned up very nicely, and surprisingly the switches (salmon) seem to be pretty clean. I've opened a few switches and found very little to worry about inside. I've desoldered and plan to put these on an Infinity board.Dont bother with lubing salmon alps. if theyre clean, they should be very smooth with a pronounced tactile bump. if they feels good, dont bother opening them up, its a long process that you wont enjoy.
They feel pretty clean, but I don't have a point of reference for what a clean set feels like. Would it be pretty obvious (either feel or visually inside) if these had dust/contamination issues? The plate and keys were pretty bad, but the switch action seems pretty smooth to me.
I also lubed a few, and can hardly tell the difference. Still debating if I bother with lube, but if I'm going to open them all up, it's not much of an extra step.
Post by: lunas on Mon, 15 August 2016, 15:00:07
Dont bother with lubing salmon alps. if theyre clean, they should be very smooth with a pronounced tactile bump. if they feels good, dont bother opening them up, its a long process that you wont enjoy.Indeed! Worse, it might not even work, or make them worse D: .
Thanks both of you for the feedback. I'll proceed without lubing. Opening the switches wasn't too bad, but it was tough applying dry lube on the couple I tested. I'll save the extra work for only problem switches if any. Looking forward to getting these soldered and tested on a clean board.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 15 August 2016, 16:34:06
Damn squeaky chair lol.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 15 August 2016, 19:27:14
Packard Bell typing test :)Hmmm, blue Alps typing, delicious ^^ .
Damn squeaky chair lol.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 15 August 2016, 23:11:19
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 15 August 2016, 23:54:46
Why would you buy a AEK from Taobao? There common enough on ebay.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 16 August 2016, 00:17:42
Post by: chyros on Tue, 16 August 2016, 05:41:15
watYea they can. The way to tell is to look at the back label and see if there is a S in a little box in the bottom right corner. 95's can have SKCM White Damp.
Why would you buy a AEK from Taobao? There common enough on ebay.
I have a huge order $2000 or so, and it was cheap enough.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 16 August 2016, 07:20:04
wasn't aware that an AEK2 could come with salmons.
The mark with the "S" is not reliable at all.
I believe that it is accurate to say that most but not all 1989 copyrights have salmon, most or all 1990 copyrights have dampened cream, and most or all 1995 copyrights have dampened white.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:00:58
This one:
(http://i.imgur.com/57rNe2i.jpg)
And this one
(http://i.imgur.com/ViE6d3u.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:09:49
Post by: E3E on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:10:47
I am interested in getting a magnavox videowriter board to harvest for switches. There seems to be 2 versions, but only 1 variant seems to have SKCM Browns.
This one:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/57rNe2i.jpg)
And this oneShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ViE6d3u.jpg)
From my observation and understanding: If you see LED windows/cut outs on any of the caps, stay away. Those are mitsumis.
The one without LEDs is SKCM Brown as far as I have seen.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:22:14
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:23:22
there is one of those on taobao not sure if in stock thoughyeh I saw it, its a bit much though with proxy fees and shipping and all that ****. I think the asking price is like 45$
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:26:11
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:27:50
I must knowthere is one of those on taobao not sure if in stock thoughyeh I saw it, its a bit much though with proxy fees and shipping and all that ****. I think the asking price is like 45$
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd have gotten it if i didn't have something better coming ^-^
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: E3E on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:29:51
I must know
Spolier: It's mainly Cherry.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:30:05
ewwI must know
Spolier: It's mainly Cherry.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 10:35:36
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 11:48:14
I am interested in getting a magnavox videowriter board to harvest for switches. There seems to be 2 versions, but only 1 variant seems to have SKCM Browns.
This one:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/57rNe2i.jpg)
And this oneShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ViE6d3u.jpg)
From my observation and understanding: If you see LED windows/cut outs on any of the caps, stay away. Those are mitsumis.
The one without LEDs is SKCM Brown as far as I have seen.
Mine came with Mitsumi but no LEDs.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 17 August 2016, 12:43:44
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 12:44:49
Post by: E3E on Wed, 17 August 2016, 14:31:33
Damn, I thought that was the tell. Looks like it's a game of chance then. :-\
always ask seller to remove key caps
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I never bought one of these, but I always do, unless I'm certain due to other criteria.
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 17 August 2016, 16:58:32
(http://i.imgur.com/o9ISSpX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MepP5K6.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 17 August 2016, 17:08:35
Just finished my Alps64, really happy with the end result. Sounds great in the TEX alu case.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/o9ISSpX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MepP5K6.jpg)
Wow dude, those alphas are sweet! What kind of plate and switches are you using?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 17 August 2016, 17:14:09
Post by: itzmeluigi on Wed, 17 August 2016, 18:48:31
Just finished my Alps64, really happy with the end result. Sounds great in the TEX alu case.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/o9ISSpX.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MepP5K6.jpg)
Wow dude, those alphas are sweet! What kind of plate and switches are you using?
Using SS AISI 316 1.0mm plate by Hasu with SKCM blues.
Typing vid or it didn't happen :D .
I have no tripod :)) All i have is my phone for photo and videos, might try and stack some books to get a typing video soon. What kind of setup do you use for your typing videos?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 17 August 2016, 19:03:07
I have no tripod :)) All i have is my phone for photo and videos, might try and stack some books to get a typing video soon. What kind of setup do you use for your typing videos?I use a webcam for the typing videos and a Nokia phone for the reviews.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 21:55:11
(http://i.imgur.com/XZVXar7.jpg)
Finally got this big bastard all cleaned up. For some reason the keycaps are virgin white, but the case is slightly yellowed. Usually it happens the other way around.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 17 August 2016, 22:38:50
(http://i.imgur.com/kIn9hNo.png)
Full steam ahead!
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aEH70xh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XZVXar7.jpg)
Finally got this big bastard all cleaned up. For some reason the keycaps are virgin white, but the case is slightly yellowed. Usually it happens the other way around.
Looks great! Kinda want an Omnikey now.. :p
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 22:46:51
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 17 August 2016, 23:20:30
Got my 60% 5140 plate in the mail, I am very very happy I did not screw up the measurements for the Big-Ass Enter stabilizer cutout!That plate looks great. Are you planning to use an alps64 pcb?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kIn9hNo.png)
Full steam ahead!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/aEH70xh.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XZVXar7.jpg)
Finally got this big bastard all cleaned up. For some reason the keycaps are virgin white, but the case is slightly yellowed. Usually it happens the other way around.
Looks great! Kinda want an Omnikey now.. :p
Also, The guy that I bough my omnikey from just listed another one, looks like its in even better shape than mine was. If you are serious about wanting one, here it is. good price for these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94)
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 17 August 2016, 23:25:17
How do they feel or sound?
Post by: emdude on Wed, 17 August 2016, 23:32:01
That plate looks great. Are you planning to use an alps64 pcb?
Yup. I hope to put it all together in the next few days.
Also, The guy that I bough my omnikey from just listed another one, looks like its in even better shape than mine was. If you are serious about wanting one, here it is. good price for these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94)
Thanks for the link! Dunno if I want to get one immediately, but it sure is tempting..
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 01:09:07
So pretty much, we know that the 6085 is directly connected to the DocuTech keyboard now. The DocuTech is pretty much a repurposed 6085. I mean, it's kind of obvious, but the PCBs are exactly the same and they can both come with SKCM Green (boards from 1990 on up).
(http://i.imgur.com/pyJyxnf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZwzzVgJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vS1Rmy4.jpg)
From what I've talked about with the seller whose brother worked at PARC, the 6085 systems saw continued use past the date they got taken off the consumer (is that the right word for a $15000 system?) market. So I'm thinking that the 6085 keyboards from the 90s were either replacements for customers or part of internal Xerox systems.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 18 August 2016, 03:42:12
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 04:29:55
I'm going to be getting some scrap parts of a 6085 someone desoldered for SKCM Brown and pop in something common like SKCM white and maybe get someone like Hasu to make a converter if possible, shipping it to them so they can work with a board directly.
Someone else mentioned that they might make a converter for these keyboards in the future, but it was only a possibility, nothing certain. Sad thing is, all the Xerox boards I have are in good enough condition where I don't want to scrap their switches, but I can't use any of them as an actual keyboard for now. :-X
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 18 August 2016, 07:54:34
<snip>That's where I got my Omnikey 101. It was in fairly good shape -- just some scattered spots of corrosion on the top plate and the usual ABS yellowing. The price on the current listing is certainly good, but it appears to me that the condition of the current one is not as good as the one before. For example, the rear DIN6 connector looks rather badly corroded, although it could probably be restored or replaced fairly easily.
<snip>
<snip>
Also, The guy that I bough my omnikey from just listed another one, looks like its in even better shape than mine was. If you are serious about wanting one, here it is. good price for these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 10:37:58
Mine has very nice virgin white keycaps, Im not sure about the other ones. The connector was a bit corroded on mine, but a bit of contact cleaner and toothpicks got it all cleaned up.<snip>That's where I got my Omnikey 101. It was in fairly good shape -- just some scattered spots of corrosion on the top plate and the usual ABS yellowing. The price on the current listing is certainly good, but it appears to me that the condition of the current one is not as good as the one before. For example, the rear DIN6 connector looks rather badly corroded, although it could probably be restored or replaced fairly easily.
<snip>
<snip>
Also, The guy that I bough my omnikey from just listed another one, looks like its in even better shape than mine was. If you are serious about wanting one, here it is. good price for these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-XT-Keyboard-w-5-pin-din-plug-Omnikey-101-Northgate-Computers-clicky-key-/371711732653?hash=item568bbeebad:g:BkkAAOSwU-pXsx94)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 18 August 2016, 10:45:06
Anyone have information about these KPT switches? https://deskthority.net/wiki/KPT_switch
How do they feel or sound?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58230.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41117.0#post_Other
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 12:40:52
The guy I was talking to said a bunch of people from the SF bay area want to buy his 6085 and Sun Microsystems equipment, including extra keyboards and all that junk. We had been talking a lot via email before I even got the SKCM Green 6085 and he showed me a NIB 6085 from 1985 (SKCM Brown). Made me drool, man.
I didn't plan on buying it, but since the other guys were moving in, he offered it to me again, and I couldn't refuse. So looks like I'm getting a pretty sick 6085 Keyboard from the internal Xerox offices at Palo Alto.
1985 was a good year.
http://imgur.com/a/aSyi8
(http://i.imgur.com/l6UhmYZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/C5AiscJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cWpARC1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Rok9cjc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IZj2qOZ.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/JqSBhKT.jpg?1)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 18 August 2016, 12:50:40
Christ, I'm making Xerox boards look like they're AEKs.The Alps Gods have truly smiled upon E3E, unused switches are such a treat! How many Xerox boards do you own now?
The guy I was talking to said a bunch of people from the SF bay area want to buy his 6085 and Sun Microsystems equipment, including extra keyboards and all that junk. We had been talking a lot via email before I even got the SKCM Green 6085 and he showed me a NIB 6085 from 1985 (SKCM Brown). Made me drool, man.
I didn't plan on buying it, but since the other guys were moving in, he offered it to me again, and I couldn't refuse. So looks like I'm getting a pretty sick 6085 Keyboard from the internal Xerox offices at Palo Alto.
1985 was a good year.
http://imgur.com/a/aSyi8MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/l6UhmYZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C5AiscJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cWpARC1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Rok9cjc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/IZj2qOZ.jpg?1)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JqSBhKT.jpg?1)
Post by: Dokyun on Thu, 18 August 2016, 12:51:21
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 12:56:35
Christ, I'm making Xerox boards look like they're AEKs.The Alps Gods have truly smiled upon E3E, unused switches are such a treat! How many Xerox boards do you own now?
The guy I was talking to said a bunch of people from the SF bay area want to buy his 6085 and Sun Microsystems equipment, including extra keyboards and all that junk. We had been talking a lot via email before I even got the SKCM Green 6085 and he showed me a NIB 6085 from 1985 (SKCM Brown). Made me drool, man.
I didn't plan on buying it, but since the other guys were moving in, he offered it to me again, and I couldn't refuse. So looks like I'm getting a pretty sick 6085 Keyboard from the internal Xerox offices at Palo Alto.
1985 was a good year.
http://imgur.com/a/aSyi8MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/l6UhmYZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C5AiscJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cWpARC1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Rok9cjc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/IZj2qOZ.jpg?1)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JqSBhKT.jpg?1)
Haha. :-[ Six of them now. 4 DocuTechs and 2 6085s. This is the only one that'll have browns. Damn, I didn't even think of the fact it'd have NIB switches. I definitely need to see how it compares!
Post by: Aran.E99 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:04:16
Christ, I'm making Xerox boards look like they're AEKs.The Alps Gods have truly smiled upon E3E, unused switches are such a treat! How many Xerox boards do you own now?
The guy I was talking to said a bunch of people from the SF bay area want to buy his 6085 and Sun Microsystems equipment, including extra keyboards and all that junk. We had been talking a lot via email before I even got the SKCM Green 6085 and he showed me a NIB 6085 from 1985 (SKCM Brown). Made me drool, man.
I didn't plan on buying it, but since the other guys were moving in, he offered it to me again, and I couldn't refuse. So looks like I'm getting a pretty sick 6085 Keyboard from the internal Xerox offices at Palo Alto.
1985 was a good year.
http://imgur.com/a/aSyi8MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/l6UhmYZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C5AiscJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cWpARC1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Rok9cjc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/IZj2qOZ.jpg?1)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JqSBhKT.jpg?1)
Haha. :-[ Six of them now. 4 DocuTechs and 2 6085s. This is the only one that'll have browns. Damn, I didn't even think of the fact it'd have NIB switches. I definitely need to see how it compares!
SIX?!. i only have 2 boards with genuine alps in, mind 6 of the same brand...
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:11:47
SIX?!. i only have 2 boards with genuine alps in, mind 6 of the same brand...
Definitely turning into a bit of a hoarder, I guess. :-X
I don't really want any more DocuTech keyboards. I'm happy with what I have. Two pine, two bamboo, one from 1990, the year they came out. One with a layout I haven't seen before on a DocuTech, even if it's only the left short shift.
I got the 6085 with SKCM Green because it seemed like an important board, to bridge the gap between the DocuTech and 6085 keyboards and show the connection of SKCM Brown to SKCM Green. They're the same exact keyboard, it turns out!
Then finally, the last 6085 is just really cool because it's NIB and one of the earliest models made and in such good condition. It seems like it'd be hard to ever find another like it. I wasn't going to buy it, but when the guys were showing interest in the seller's stuff, I was like... Nope, gotta do it.
So I have a 6085 when it came out in 1985 and a DocuTech when it came out in 1990 (also when I was born). Pretty happy with that. :D
Post by: Aran.E99 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:16:04
SIX?!. i only have 2 boards with genuine alps in, mind 6 of the same brand...
Definitely turning into a bit of a hoarder, I guess. :-X
I don't really want any more DocuTech keyboards. I'm happy with what I have. Two pine, two bamboo, one from 1990, the year they came out. One with a layout I haven't seen before on a DocuTech, even if it's only the left short shift.
I got the 6085 with SKCM Green because it seemed like an important board, to bridge the gap between the DocuTech and 6085 keyboards and show the connection of SKCM Brown to SKCM Green. They're the same exact keyboard, it turns out!
Then finally, the last 6085 is just really cool because it's NIB and one of the earliest models made and in such good condition. It seems like it'd be hard to ever find another like it. I wasn't going to buy it, but when the guys were showing interest in the seller's stuff, I was like... Nope, gotta do it.
So I have a 6085 when it came out in 1985 and a DocuTech when it came out in 1990 (also when I was born). Pretty happy with that. :D
then there is me: "uh, yeah, i got 2 dell AT101s. both got black alps." xD
for me, i want whites to be in my next board to show keyboard equality. just kidding, im fed up of clicky modding black alps... (and i'm not sure if i can handle the greatness of more expensive alps right now)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:27:01
I paid like $100 for my first Alps board, which was a Nan Tan/NTC 6151N with blue Alps that I got from someone off reddit. It was nice, but then I stupidly bricked it and ended up using its remains on the Infinity keyboard I had at the time.
I think Mattr is one of the luckiest in terms of finds online. $25 plus shipping is amazing for that Packard Bell. I might be pretty lucky too since I got my 4 DocuTechs for $80 plus shipping. They needed a good cleaning, but they were surprisingly not damaged in any way. If they were though, it would have given me a reason to desolder them. Instead, I just started becoming fascinated with them.
These last two Xerox boards though... :-\
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:33:41
If you dont want any more docutechs, you can direct the ones you find in the future to me :pSIX?!. i only have 2 boards with genuine alps in, mind 6 of the same brand...
Definitely turning into a bit of a hoarder, I guess. :-X
I don't really want any more DocuTech keyboards. I'm happy with what I have. Two pine, two bamboo, one from 1990, the year they came out. One with a layout I haven't seen before on a DocuTech, even if it's only the left short shift.
I got the 6085 with SKCM Green because it seemed like an important board, to bridge the gap between the DocuTech and 6085 keyboards and show the connection of SKCM Brown to SKCM Green. They're the same exact keyboard, it turns out!
Then finally, the last 6085 is just really cool because it's NIB and one of the earliest models made and in such good condition. It seems like it'd be hard to ever find another like it. I wasn't going to buy it, but when the guys were showing interest in the seller's stuff, I was like... Nope, gotta do it.
So I have a 6085 when it came out in 1985 and a DocuTech when it came out in 1990 (also when I was born). Pretty happy with that. :D
Post by: emdude on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:42:21
The Alps game isn't as brutal as Cherry can be, but if you're just trying to get by, it can still be pretty harsh. Especially when the piranhas start up a frenzy over blue alps.
I paid like $100 for my first Alps board, which was a Nan Tan/NTC 6151N with blue Alps that I got from someone off reddit. It was nice, but then I stupidly bricked it and ended up using its remains on the Infinity keyboard I had at the time.
I think Mattr is one of the luckiest in terms of finds online. $25 plus shipping is amazing for that Packard Bell. I might be pretty lucky too since I got my 4 DocuTechs for $80 plus shipping. They needed a good cleaning, but they were surprisingly not damaged in any way. If they were though, it would have given me a reason to desolder them. Instead, I just started becoming fascinated with them.
These last two Xerox boards though... :-\
Yes, persistence and knowing where to look is key here. Although... I will admit luck helps a lot too. :p
I think I paid about a total of $30 for my two 5140 boards, I think those have been my best Alps finds yet. My best best find has probably been those beam springs though.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:45:50
I wasnt aware you had a beamspring, got any pictures?The Alps game isn't as brutal as Cherry can be, but if you're just trying to get by, it can still be pretty harsh. Especially when the piranhas start up a frenzy over blue alps.
I paid like $100 for my first Alps board, which was a Nan Tan/NTC 6151N with blue Alps that I got from someone off reddit. It was nice, but then I stupidly bricked it and ended up using its remains on the Infinity keyboard I had at the time.
I think Mattr is one of the luckiest in terms of finds online. $25 plus shipping is amazing for that Packard Bell. I might be pretty lucky too since I got my 4 DocuTechs for $80 plus shipping. They needed a good cleaning, but they were surprisingly not damaged in any way. If they were though, it would have given me a reason to desolder them. Instead, I just started becoming fascinated with them.
These last two Xerox boards though... :-\
Yes, persistence and knowing where to look is key here. Although... I will admit luck helps a lot too. :p
I think I paid about a total of $30 for my two 5140 boards, I think those have been my best Alps finds yet. My best best find has probably been those beam springs though.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 13:50:46
Yes, persistence and knowing where to look is key here. Although... I will admit luck helps a lot too. :p
I think I paid about a total of $30 for my two 5140 boards, I think those have been my best Alps finds yet. My best best find has probably been those beam springs though.
That's a wonderful price for two 5140s, man. Yeah, it is about knowing where to look, either through flukes or finding untapped sources. Outside of my DocuTechs, the best finds I'd say I got was my Leading Edge DC-3014 for $75, my Acer KB101A for $89, and the NTC 6153EA, which I got for around $79 as a replacement for my bricked NTC 6151N. Blue Alps but QWERTZ with a short left shift but otherwise ANSI, er, BAE.
Those beamsprings though are deeeeefinitely your best find. I read up on some of the threads you posted in about them and it seems as though they can't easily be converted to PC, which sucks.
If so, then you're kind of in the same boat as I am with my Xerox boards. Rare, but unusable. I need to get a converter made for them. How many beamsprings did you end up with again?
If you dont want any more docutechs, you can direct the ones you find in the future to me :p
Well, more like I don't want to pay a ton for them after dropping so much on these. I think I was spoiled by the original find being so cheap. :)) I'd love to have more if I happened upon them or someone sold them way cheap. One with a broken case or missing caps would be perfect so I could actually not feel bad salvaging the switches.
I checked a part supplier for the part number of the DocuTechs and they quoted one for me at $960. :eek: The left short shift one's part number can't even be found online.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:02:26
The Alps game isn't as brutal as Cherry can be, but if you're just trying to get by, it can still be pretty harsh. Especially when the piranhas start up a frenzy over blue alps.
I paid like $100 for my first Alps board, which was a Nan Tan/NTC 6151N with blue Alps that I got from someone off reddit. It was nice, but then I stupidly bricked it and ended up using its remains on the Infinity keyboard I had at the time.
I think Mattr is one of the luckiest in terms of finds online. $25 plus shipping is amazing for that Packard Bell. I might be pretty lucky too since I got my 4 DocuTechs for $80 plus shipping. They needed a good cleaning, but they were surprisingly not damaged in any way. If they were though, it would have given me a reason to desolder them. Instead, I just started becoming fascinated with them.
These last two Xerox boards though... :-\
Yes, persistence and knowing where to look is key here. Although... I will admit luck helps a lot too. :p
I think I paid about a total of $30 for my two 5140 boards, I think those have been my best Alps finds yet. My best best find has probably been those beam springs though.
My best find was the Ebay NOS Copam K-430 with blues (http://i.imgur.com/s9UJUE4.jpg). For the money though, I think the brown alps board I just located may take the cake. Still bummed about the last 5140 I missed out on, really wanted to wire it up with a Teensy (https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/ibm-5140-convertible-conversion-t9666.html) to keep the function and arrow keys.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:05:33
I wasnt aware you had a beamspring, got any pictures?The Alps game isn't as brutal as Cherry can be, but if you're just trying to get by, it can still be pretty harsh. Especially when the piranhas start up a frenzy over blue alps.
I paid like $100 for my first Alps board, which was a Nan Tan/NTC 6151N with blue Alps that I got from someone off reddit. It was nice, but then I stupidly bricked it and ended up using its remains on the Infinity keyboard I had at the time.
I think Mattr is one of the luckiest in terms of finds online. $25 plus shipping is amazing for that Packard Bell. I might be pretty lucky too since I got my 4 DocuTechs for $80 plus shipping. They needed a good cleaning, but they were surprisingly not damaged in any way. If they were though, it would have given me a reason to desolder them. Instead, I just started becoming fascinated with them.
These last two Xerox boards though... :-\
Yes, persistence and knowing where to look is key here. Although... I will admit luck helps a lot too. :p
I think I paid about a total of $30 for my two 5140 boards, I think those have been my best Alps finds yet. My best best find has probably been those beam springs though.
Here (https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-3277-beam-spring-keyboard-t14016.html) and here (https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-3277-display-terminals-and-keyboards-t13852.html). Apologies for being off-topic here, though.
That's a wonderful price for two 5140s, man. Yeah, it is about knowing where to look, either through flukes or finding untapped sources. Outside of my DocuTechs, the best finds I'd say I got was my Leading Edge DC-3014 for $75, my Acer KB101A for $89, and the NTC 6153EA, which I got for around $79 as a replacement for my bricked NTC 6151N. Blue Alps but QWERTZ with a short left shift but otherwise ANSI.
Those beamsprings though are deeeeefinitely your best find. I read up on some of the threads you posted in about them and it seems as though they can't easily be converted to PC, which sucks.
If so, then you're kind of in the same boat as I am with my Xerox boards. Rare, but unusable. I need to get a converter made for them. How many beamsprings did you end up with again?
Three of them, this was a Craigslist find as well. I actually just went looking up stuff on the site on a whim and could not believe what I found under a really vague listing, "ibm computers" was literally what it was titled.
It was a local listing as well, which was fortunate, because no way the seller was going to ship the display terminals. Took a teeny bit of negotiating, I was away as well and had to convince the guy to drop off the display terminals at my house.
Yeah, it is a shame about them being pretty much unusable right now. At least the protocol for the Docutechs has been mapped out so I imagine you could get those up-and-running with a bit of know-how and effort.
Anyhow, I actually found what used to be my DC-2014 for about $60, so I am pretty happy about that too. And a kinda interesting story about the 5140s. That $30 was just for one actually. The other one I somehow ended up getting for free, I negotiated with a guy for a while, very friendly. He eventually mailed the board to me without requesting that I pay in advance, only afterwards if I found it satisfactory. So when it came, I asked him to invoice me, only, he never did. He seemed really nice though and was probably eager just to offload the thing.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:08:56
Post by: Aran.E99 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:10:17
I want one of those fake cherry looking alps boards. Only cause with a splash of cherry, all alps taste better :p :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :)) ^-^
alps > cherry
Post by: emdude on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:11:13
I want one of those fake cherry looking alps boards. Only cause with a splash of cherry, all alps taste better :p :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :)) ^-^
I'm actually looking forward to those i-Rocks switches, if there could be something that at least resembles Alps but with MX-mount sliders, that would be fantastic.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:12:24
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:14:21
but their stock is down:Its still trending higher than it was at the start of the day
https://www.google.com/search?q=alps&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=TYO:6770&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMQUOLSz9U3SM5OT4rPAgBPFWvGDgAAAAS
Post by: Aran.E99 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:14:56
but their stock is down:
https://www.google.com/search?q=alps&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=TYO:6770&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMQUOLSz9U3SM5OT4rPAgBPFWvGDgAAAAS
guess people don't like there current products xD
if you are reading this Alps electric - do the world a favour - make alps keyboard switches again :(
actually, if they do, the value of vintage alps switches will drop as they will be easier to get.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:16:04
but their stock is down:
https://www.google.com/search?q=alps&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=TYO:6770&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMQUOLSz9U3SM5OT4rPAgBPFWvGDgAAAAS
guess people don't like there current products xD
if you are reading this Alps electric - do the world a favour - make alps keyboard switches again :(
actually, if they do, the value of vintage alps switches will drop as they will be easier to get.
Only if they're the complicated kind! In any case, this will probably never happen, sadly. :(
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:18:09
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:22:31
I want one of those fake cherry looking alps boards. Only cause with a splash of cherry, all alps taste better :p :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :)) ^-^
You mean the iRocks or the FAME keyboards with Cherry profile caps? I thought the stock on eBay would never sell, but it did. Of course it would, haha.
Three of them, this was a Craigslist find as well. I actually just went looking up stuff on the site on a whim and could not believe what I found under a really vague listing, "ibm computers" was literally what it was titled.
It was a local listing as well, which was fortunate, because no way the seller was going to ship the display terminals. Took a teeny bit of negotiating, I was away as well and had to convince the guy to drop off the display terminals at my house.
Yeah, it is a shame about them being pretty much unusable right now. At least the protocol for the Docutechs has been mapped out so I imagine you could get those up-and-running with a bit of know-how and effort.
Anyhow, I actually found what used to be my DC-2014 for about $60, so I am pretty happy about that too. And a kinda interesting story about the 5140s. That $30 was just for one actually. The other one I somehow ended up getting for free, I negotiated with a guy for a while, very friendly. He eventually mailed the board to me without requesting that I pay in advance, only afterwards if I found it satisfactory. So when it came, I asked him to invoice me, only, he never did. He seemed really nice though and was probably eager just to offload the thing.
I love how this hobby is when it comes to finding good stuff like that. It was pretty crazy that the guy had the IBM beam springs and terminals too; I remember that. Real vintage stuff right there. :eek:
Yeah, I wish I was more of a software engineer; if I was, I'd already have the DocuTechs up and running, haha. That's cool though, about the 5140s. I got mine for $37 I think, but to get a free one like you did is just awesome. I want to try and find another IIc so I can give Amber Alps a second chance, but they seem battened down at the moment. Prices aren't friendly. :P
Post by: emdude on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:30:23
I want to try and find another IIc so I can give Amber Alps a second chance, but they seem battened down at the moment. Prices aren't friendly. :P
Yeah, the tough thing about the IIc (and probably the 5140 too) is that one is likely competing against vintage computer collectors. That you have to find one with that particular model number as well makes things trickier still.
I still find it pretty hilarious how a member of a vintage computer collecting forum called one of us a "keyboard poacher" in an inquiry about beam springs. :P
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:43:45
I want to try and find another IIc so I can give Amber Alps a second chance, but they seem battened down at the moment. Prices aren't friendly. :P
Yeah, the tough thing about the IIc (and probably the 5140 too) is that one is likely competing against vintage computer collectors. That you have to find one with that particular model number as well makes things trickier still.
I still find it pretty hilarious how a member of a vintage computer collecting forum called one of us a "keyboard poacher" in an inquiry about beam springs. :P
Oh god, I just glanced back at my keyboards that are on display at the moment and saw them as animal head mounts and ivory tusks for a second. WHAT HAVE WE DONE!? :'(
Yeah, good point. Both the IIc and 5140 vary in price by a wide amount all the time on eBay. There was a 5140 complete set for like $2000 on eBay recently. :eek: I can definitely understand collectors being upset over people who just want the keyboards, though it's more understandable to me toward people who just take any board regardless of significance and butcher it for a build.
I think keeping the board in good shape isn't bad, but then they want to actually USE their computers and I'm sure that upsets the ones who have systems without proper keyboards.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 18 August 2016, 15:09:20
I want to try and find another IIc so I can give Amber Alps a second chance, but they seem battened down at the moment. Prices aren't friendly. :P
Yeah, the tough thing about the IIc (and probably the 5140 too) is that one is likely competing against vintage computer collectors. That you have to find one with that particular model number as well makes things trickier still.
I still find it pretty hilarious how a member of a vintage computer collecting forum called one of us a "keyboard poacher" in an inquiry about beam springs. :P
Oh god, I just glanced back at my keyboards that are on display at the moment and saw them as animal head mounts and ivory tusks for a second. WHAT HAVE WE DONE!? :'(
Yeah, good point. Both the IIc and 5140 vary in price by a wide amount all the time on eBay. There was a 5140 complete set for like $2000 on eBay recently. :eek: I can definitely understand collectors being upset over people who just want the keyboards, though it's more understandable to me toward people who just take any board regardless of significance and butcher it for a build.
I think keeping the board in good shape isn't bad, but then they want to actually USE their computers and I'm sure that upsets the ones who have systems without proper keyboards.
I understand why they feel this way too, and I admit to sort of having the mentality of a vintage computer collector. I thought it would have been an absolute shame if I had let those IBM display terminals go to the scrap heap while I ran off with the keyboards (though of course now I've got these massive displays taking up space now :))). I would have also saved the DC-2014 if it wasn't already half-way gone; it was missing the cable and most of its key caps.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 15:14:16
On that note, NOS doesn't always make a difference though, since I've felt comparatively smooth switches from used boards (typewriters at least).
It's funny that I've found more blue Alps than SKCL Green Alps, but I stopped looking for SKCL Green after a while. I was satisfied with what I had and didn't feel like collecting SKCL Green boards, pretty much. They were hard for me to find at first though and my Zenith Z-150 ended up having SKCL Yellow. They weren't bad, just not what I wanted.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 15:17:09
I agree with you entirely there! I also had a DC-2014 that I didn't want to take apart either but eventually did since I was having no luck finding SKCL Greens for my backlit Alps board project in order to trade the blues for essentially NOS SKCL Greens out of a practically unused terminal board.
On that note, NOS doesn't always make a difference though, since I've felt comparatively smooth switches from used boards (typewriters at least).
It's funny that I've found more blue Alps than SKCL Green Alps, but I stopped looking for SKCL Green after a while. I was satisfied with what I had and didn't feel like collecting SKCL Green boards, pretty much. They were hard for me to find at first though and my Zenith Z-150 ended up having SKCL Yellow. They weren't bad, just not what I wanted.
i've had the dirtiest black alps board, awful condition. the switches were nicer feeling and smoother than my nearly new black alps...
you are lucky that you find blues, greens and yellows! i've never had any xD
Post by: itzmeluigi on Thu, 18 August 2016, 15:51:49
I use a webcam for the typing videos and a Nokia phone for the reviews.
Made a typing sound video, and ordered a cheap phone tripod :)
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 18:22:02
And completely unrelated, does any of you guys know if there are LEDs like those on Omnikey (101) available somewhere? I don't know anything about LEDs so I don't know if they are some standard ones, or are they custom with possibility of compatible ones existing.
More
(http://i.imgur.com/a2LniSb.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 18 August 2016, 19:03:11
does any of you guys know if there are LEDs like those on Omnikey (101) available somewhere? I don't know anything about LEDs so I don't know if they are some standard ones, or are they custom with possibility of compatible ones existing.
Tall flat green ones are on the IBM F AT, but those are even more rare than the Omnikey.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 19:06:42
The Alps game isn't as brutal as Cherry can be, but if you're just trying to get by, it can still be pretty harsh. Especially when the piranhas start up a frenzy over blue alps.Don't forget the Focus FK-727 with Cyan Omnom's I found! May not have been Alps but goddamn that thing was rare :eek: Also the Taobao goldmine I discovered :P
I paid like $100 for my first Alps board, which was a Nan Tan/NTC 6151N with blue Alps that I got from someone off reddit. It was nice, but then I stupidly bricked it and ended up using its remains on the Infinity keyboard I had at the time.
I think Mattr is one of the luckiest in terms of finds online. $25 plus shipping is amazing for that Packard Bell. I might be pretty lucky too since I got my 4 DocuTechs for $80 plus shipping. They needed a good cleaning, but they were surprisingly not damaged in any way. If they were though, it would have given me a reason to desolder them. Instead, I just started becoming fascinated with them.
These last two Xerox boards though... :-\
Your Docutech finds were great as well. Not common and usually go for $120+ each. You and that other guy are like the only ones who have 'em. The only way to get cheap 5140's is craigslist. Ebay people have sky high prices. The IIC less however.
I actually had a 5140 in my sights on craigslist a long time ago. Turned out I was too late, and the guy's friend threw the 5140 away :( He was going to give it away for free to me.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 19:23:19
Tall flat green ones are on the IBM F AT, but those are even more rare than the Omnikey.
I actually do have it. But I want a red and a blue LED to spruce things up a bit :)
Don't forget the Focus FK-727 with Cyan Omnom's I found! May not have been Alps but goddamn that thing was rare :eek:
That board, but with Alps switches and regular ANSI TKL layout would be my Alps endgame. Granted, these are significant modifications, but one can dream.
I actually had a 5140 in my sights on craigslist a long time ago. Turned out I was too late, and the guy's friend threw the 5140 away :( He was going to give it away for free to me.
You stumbled upon some much nicer sellers on craigslist than me then. I have one in my sights but it has a price tag twice for what they went recently on ebay (at least lowerpriced ones). Unfortunately, seller won't budge.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 18 August 2016, 19:44:56
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 18 August 2016, 19:47:25
I actually do have it. But I want a red and a blue LED to spruce things up a bit :)
There are probably hundreds on ebay for cheap if you just knew the proper search terms.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 18 August 2016, 23:19:39
Don't forget the Focus FK-727 with Cyan Omnom's I found! May not have been Alps but goddamn that thing was rare :eek: Also the Taobao goldmine I discovered :P
Yeah man, I've never seen another one of those. Even the Focus FK-555 had been seen more with cyan omrons have been seen more. I was considering buying that one off ya, but decided to let it go.
Your Docutech finds were great as well. Not common and usually go for $120+ each. You and that other guy are like the only ones who have 'em. The only way to get cheap 5140's is craigslist. Ebay people have sky high prices. The IIC less however.
I was lucky that none of my Xerox boards were broken or busted up, since it seems some of the people who've found them have gotten them in poor shape. Definitely happy I have a model from the first year of production, actually only a month after release. :)
I'd say the board I have that is probably the rarest is actually my FAME TH-5539. There are a LOT of variants of the TH-5539, but I still have yet to see another one like mine (and I don't mean the modding). Always keeping my eye out for one, but no one seems to have ever seen one. Even others with blue Alps were different.
(http://i.imgur.com/OIPpVn7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CrCFItM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/I9ReQPy.jpg)
The wiki on it even says "unknown model" haha.
I actually had a 5140 in my sights on craigslist a long time ago. Turned out I was too late, and the guy's friend threw the 5140 away :( He was going to give it away for free to me.
Ahh yeah, I remember that. :( My bombed finds were the Focus FK-2001 with blue alps from a local member, UnFocused (though, I understand his position too), and pretty much Packard Bell T9102 x2. Just missed getting it for $50 on eBay (but someone ended up bidding so the seller went back on it), and then the craigslist guy in your area that stopped responding to me.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 01:34:53
Wonder where this will go
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322230933575
And I wonder what switches this guy has's. Google found nothing in the model number.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282140231906
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 01:43:43
And I wonder what switches this guy has's. Google found nothing in the model number.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282140231906
Layout-wise it is very similar, but not identical, to this one
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Keyboard-PCB-white-ALPS-colored-keycaps-/182223058212
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 01:47:58
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 01:51:22
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 01:55:55
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 19 August 2016, 02:03:41
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 06:53:26
And ambers are not that heavy at all. Typing on them for a couple of minutes, I would say they are close to model M, and based on some comments, I was expecting something like space invaders or XT spacebar level of heaviness. And this only makes me want to get that 5140 even more :)
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 19 August 2016, 10:08:56
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 10:25:29
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 10:29:01
All of these blue Alps boards are making me cry from jealousy, please stop triggering me.
I'm sure there are some people who wouldn't mind trading one for your Packard Bell. ;)
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 19 August 2016, 10:46:11
Some day, I just like owning something so rare.All of these blue Alps boards are making me cry from jealousy, please stop triggering me.
I'm sure there are some people who wouldn't mind trading one for your Packard Bell. ;)
I personally want to just buy some SKCM Blues and solder them into the Alphas of my V80 and put the board in a good case. I'll call it the Queensaver.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:17:51
(yes, one is clicky and one is tactile so shhhhhhhhhhh)
i think this has been covered a lot here but i would like to know.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:22:46
eBay can have high prices, but I got all my 5140 (6) there for $40-75 eachTriggered! Plz hide anything about brown alps for a while.
Some day, I just like owning something so rare.All of these blue Alps boards are making me cry from jealousy, please stop triggering me.
I'm sure there are some people who wouldn't mind trading one for your Packard Bell. ;)
I personally want to just buy some SKCM Blues and solder them into the Alphas of my V80 and put the board in a good case. I'll call it the Queensaver.
IIRC, the V80 PCB is compatible with Tex alu cases, just not sure what keyset would be worth of a QUEENSAVER.
How are the stock caps?
Post by: chyros on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:25:14
out of SKCM Blue and SKCM Green, what do you guys recommend? i know its gonna be a pain to get a board with these to the UK but i would like to get some opinions.I still prefer blue, personally. The feeling is quite different, though. The greens have an unmistakable, unique "rounded" feeling.
(yes, one is clicky and one is tactile so shhhhhhhhhhh)
i think this has been covered a lot here but i would like to know.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:25:29
The caps on my v60 are ****ty, just pad printed abs. another issue with v60s and v80s is they have 1.25u mods, which are hard to find in alps.eBay can have high prices, but I got all my 5140 (6) there for $40-75 eachTriggered! Plz hide anything aboutMorebrown alpsfor a while.Some day, I just like owning something so rare.All of these blue Alps boards are making me cry from jealousy, please stop triggering me.
I'm sure there are some people who wouldn't mind trading one for your Packard Bell. ;)
I personally want to just buy some SKCM Blues and solder them into the Alphas of my V80 and put the board in a good case. I'll call it the Queensaver.
IIRC, the V80 PCB is compatible with Tex alu cases, just not sure what keyset would be worth of a QUEENSAVER.
How are the stock caps?
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:40:05
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:46:42
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:48:35
out of SKCM Blue and SKCM Green, what do you guys recommend? i know its gonna be a pain to get a board with these to the UK but i would like to get some opinions.
(yes, one is clicky and one is tactile so shhhhhhhhhhh)
i think this has been covered a lot here but i would like to know.
To be honest, SKCM Blue is just the most well-rounded switch that Alps has to offer. The others are just great selections in different areas, but blue owns the clicky side and is just overall very solid.
For typical tactiles, SKCM Cream or Orange is good. For the "topre" tactiles, both brown and green are similar, both are great, a bit stiff, but the bamboo ones are even more "rounded" and less tactile than the pines and SKCM Brown.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:56:49
Color comparison:(https://deskthority.net/resources/alps-keycaps/31916)
Thicknesses:
(https://deskthority.net/resources/alps-caps-back/31917)
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 19 August 2016, 11:57:41
They're still ABS though, if you're going to be putting together a board that nice, you gotta go PBT. :cool:
This is very true, but except for the spacebar the bottom row doesn't tend to get as shiny.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:07:48
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:33:55
Yeah, you're right. PBT alphanumerics with ABS modifiers would be a pretty good compromise, actually.This is what I have done on my contemporary V60 Matias boards and my Omnikey 101. IBM 5140 keyboards have excellent dye-sub PBT caps for alphanumerics, and I buy blank black ABS mods and spacebars from Matias. You can get 6.25x and 7.00x spacebars and 1.25x and 1.50x bottom-row caps from Matias in printed or blank black or white.
It would be great if someone would put together definitive information on sources of Alps-mount dye-sub PBT keycaps. Based on appearance and a pumice-like feel, I had thought that caps I had harvested from an old-logo Dell 101 and an Acer 6311 were dye-sub PBT, but the acetone test indicated that these caps were not PBT. Were any of these vintage caps made with some plastic other than ABS or PBT?
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:36:09
Old logo at101s are dyesub pbt. Other sources for dyesub pbt caps are SGI granite boards, Wang 724/725 series boards, and AEK/AEKII and some appledesign boards.Yeah, you're right. PBT alphanumerics with ABS modifiers would be a pretty good compromise, actually.This is what I have done on my contemporary V60 Matias boards and my Omnikey 101. IBM 5140 keyboards have excellent dye-sub PBT caps for alphanumerics, and I buy blank black ABS mods and spacebars from Matias. You can get 6.25x and 7.00x spacebars and 1.25x and 1.50x bottom-row caps from Matias in printed or blank black or white.
It would be great if someone would put together definitive information on sources of Alps-mount dye-sub PBT keycaps. Based on appearance and a pumice-like feel, I had thought that caps I had harvested from an old-logo Dell 101 and an Acer 6311 were dye-sub PBT, but the acetone test indicated that these caps were not PBT. Were any of these vintage caps made with some plastic other than ABS or PBT?
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:37:45
out of SKCM Blue and SKCM Green, what do you guys recommend? i know its gonna be a pain to get a board with these to the UK but i would like to get some opinions.
(yes, one is clicky and one is tactile so shhhhhhhhhhh)
i think this has been covered a lot here but i would like to know.
To be honest, SKCM Blue is just the most well-rounded switch that Alps has to offer. The others are just great selections in different areas, but blue owns the clicky side and is just overall very solid.
For typical tactiles, SKCM Cream or Orange is good. For the "topre" tactiles, both brown and green are similar, both are great, a bit stiff, but the bamboo ones are even more "rounded" and less tactile than the pines and SKCM Brown.
thanks, i really might consider getting blues when my Model M sells. some cheeky guy on ebay is begging me to sell it for £30 because he is, and i quote, a 'fellow /r/mechanicalkeyboards user'... the audacity of some people...
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:39:38
Old logo at101s are dyesub pbt. Other sources for dyesub pbt caps are SGI granite boards, Wang 724/725 series boards, and AEK/AEKII and some appledesign boards.Yeah, you're right. PBT alphanumerics with ABS modifiers would be a pretty good compromise, actually.This is what I have done on my contemporary V60 Matias boards and my Omnikey 101. IBM 5140 keyboards have excellent dye-sub PBT caps for alphanumerics, and I buy blank black ABS mods and spacebars from Matias. You can get 6.25x and 7.00x spacebars and 1.25x and 1.50x bottom-row caps from Matias in printed or blank black or white.
It would be great if someone would put together definitive information on sources of Alps-mount dye-sub PBT keycaps. Based on appearance and a pumice-like feel, I had thought that caps I had harvested from an old-logo Dell 101 and an Acer 6311 were dye-sub PBT, but the acetone test indicated that these caps were not PBT. Were any of these vintage caps made with some plastic other than ABS or PBT?
IIRC, not all old-logo AT101s are dyesubbed PBT. Only the first-gen Alps-manufactured ones are. Fortunately, they can be easily identified by their FCC ID.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 12:59:58
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 13:00:45
Old logo at101s are dyesub pbt. Other sources for dyesub pbt caps are SGI granite boards, Wang 724/725 series boards, and AEK/AEKII and some appledesign boards.Yeah, you're right. PBT alphanumerics with ABS modifiers would be a pretty good compromise, actually.This is what I have done on my contemporary V60 Matias boards and my Omnikey 101. IBM 5140 keyboards have excellent dye-sub PBT caps for alphanumerics, and I buy blank black ABS mods and spacebars from Matias. You can get 6.25x and 7.00x spacebars and 1.25x and 1.50x bottom-row caps from Matias in printed or blank black or white.
It would be great if someone would put together definitive information on sources of Alps-mount dye-sub PBT keycaps. Based on appearance and a pumice-like feel, I had thought that caps I had harvested from an old-logo Dell 101 and an Acer 6311 were dye-sub PBT, but the acetone test indicated that these caps were not PBT. Were any of these vintage caps made with some plastic other than ABS or PBT?
IIRC, not all old-logo AT101s are dyesubbed PBT. Only the first-gen Alps-manufactured ones are. Fortunately, they can be easily identified by their FCC ID.
Not even. You just need to look at the country of manufacture. If it's made in the USA, it's going to have salmon Alps and PBT caps. None of the Taiwanese AT101s have PBT and the one Japanese one I've seen with a US layout had doubleshot ABS and black switches.
The earliest serial numbers of the US made ones also had double shot Alps-made key caps, but those are incredibly unlikely to find. No idea what switches they used, but likely SKCM black, I bet.
-
IBM Multistation new style (cylindrical) - Japanese layout
Wang 725
US-made Dell AT101
SGI Granite/AT101
IBM 5140
IBM P70 (thin)
C. Itoh Terminal Keyboard (LK201 Clone) sphericals
Xerox 6085 and DocuTech keyboards
Heath-branded Zenith ZKB-2 (usually has SKCL Yellow)
Earlier models of Zenith Z-150 keyboards
and probably a bit more!
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 19 August 2016, 13:07:47
"The Dell AT101 series was introduced as an Alps Bigfoot keyboard, with Alps SKCM Salmon switches and thick dye-sublimated keycaps with dark blue legends."
"Around 1992, production transferred to Silitek. With this came thin keycaps and a move to Alps SKCM Black switches. The keycap printing method is not confirmed."
"The keys use plate-mounted tactile Alps SKCL/SKCM series switches (either salmon or black). The keycaps are reported to be ABS; while yellowed examples are very rare, an Alps-made AT101 has been found with all keycaps except space bar the original colour, suggesting the use of PBT for all keycaps except space bar."
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Dell_AT101
The printing on my Dell caps looks to me like dye-sub and the plastic has a pumice-like texture on the sides of the caps and has not yellowed, but the plastic softens in contact with acetone. Does anyone here know the printing method that was used on this generation of Dell AT101 caps?
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 13:14:03
Old logo at101s are dyesub pbt. Other sources for dyesub pbt caps are SGI granite boards, Wang 724/725 series boards, and AEK/AEKII and some appledesign boards.Yeah, you're right. PBT alphanumerics with ABS modifiers would be a pretty good compromise, actually.This is what I have done on my contemporary V60 Matias boards and my Omnikey 101. IBM 5140 keyboards have excellent dye-sub PBT caps for alphanumerics, and I buy blank black ABS mods and spacebars from Matias. You can get 6.25x and 7.00x spacebars and 1.25x and 1.50x bottom-row caps from Matias in printed or blank black or white.
It would be great if someone would put together definitive information on sources of Alps-mount dye-sub PBT keycaps. Based on appearance and a pumice-like feel, I had thought that caps I had harvested from an old-logo Dell 101 and an Acer 6311 were dye-sub PBT, but the acetone test indicated that these caps were not PBT. Were any of these vintage caps made with some plastic other than ABS or PBT?IIRC, not all old-logo AT101s are dyesubbed PBT. Only the first-gen Alps-manufactured ones are. Fortunately, they can be easily identified by their FCC ID.
Not even. You just need to look at the country of manufacture. If it's made in the USA, it's going to have salmon Alps and PBT caps. None of the Taiwanese AT101s have PBT and the one Japanese one I've seen with a US layout had doubleshot ABS and black switches.
The earliest serial numbers of the US made ones also had double shot Alps-made key caps, but those are incredibly unlikely to find. No idea what switches they used, but likely SKCM black, I bet.
Oh wow, thanks for the clarification then.
Hm, going by the DT wiki then, it is correct to assume that AT101s with FCC ID GYIAT101-102 also have PBT dye subs? The wiki does not specify this, but it does have Salmon Alps and is made in the US.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 13:49:01
Oh wow, thanks for the clarification then.
Hm, going by the DT wiki then, it is correct to assume that AT101s with FCC ID GYIAT101-102 also have PBT dye subs? The wiki does not specify this, but it does have Salmon Alps and is made in the US.
Yep, those have PBT dyesubs as well; they're pretty much identical to the ones without the -102 bit. :thumb:
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 19 August 2016, 14:29:05
BTW, I can also confirm that the 84-key black-label Zenith keyboards have dye-sub PBT caps. I just received one of these excellent keyboards this afternoon. It is very solidly built and the caps have that pumice-like feel that some PBT caps have. Usually I am not a fan of linear switches, but the green Alps in the Zenith are rather nice.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 14:50:49
They also have nice texture too, but they are ABS. A good identifier is if the F and J keys have bars or dots. The dots are the authentic Dell AT101 PBT caps.
I should also clarify on some of the models listed earlier in terms of their homing keys:
scoops -IBM Multistation new style (cylindrical) - Japanese layout
scoops -Wang 725
dots - US-made Dell AT101
dots - SGI Granite/AT101
none - IBM 5140
bars - IBM P70 (thin)
scoops/deep dish - C. Itoh Terminal Keyboard (LK201 Clone) sphericals
none -Xerox 6085 and DocuTech keyboards
dots - Heath-branded Zenith ZKB-2 (usually has SKCL Yellow)
none - Earlier models of Zenith Z-150 keyboards
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is correct.
Also not listed are the various Apple keyboards
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 14:52:55
none - IBM 5140
I noticed this myself cleaning up the key caps, quite odd.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 19 August 2016, 15:30:03
Yeah, that would be exactly my assessment as well. I think it's very hard to go wrong with blue. And orange is fantastic as well, under-appreciated compared to blue, but still, it's not clicky xD . Pine greens feel almost like salmons IMO, not quite the same, but not as distinctly different as the bamboo greens. Those guys are a whole different kettle of fish.out of SKCM Blue and SKCM Green, what do you guys recommend? i know its gonna be a pain to get a board with these to the UK but i would like to get some opinions.
(yes, one is clicky and one is tactile so shhhhhhhhhhh)
i think this has been covered a lot here but i would like to know.
To be honest, SKCM Blue is just the most well-rounded switch that Alps has to offer. The others are just great selections in different areas, but blue owns the clicky side and is just overall very solid.
For typical tactiles, SKCM Cream or Orange is good. For the "topre" tactiles, both brown and green are similar, both are great, a bit stiff, but the bamboo ones are even more "rounded" and less tactile than the pines and SKCM Brown.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 15:34:57
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 15:55:21
Yeah, that would be exactly my assessment as well. I think it's very hard to go wrong with blue. And orange is fantastic as well, under-appreciated compared to blue, but still, it's not clicky xD . Pine greens feel almost like salmons IMO, not quite the same, but not as distinctly different as the bamboo greens. Those guys are a whole different kettle of fish.out of SKCM Blue and SKCM Green, what do you guys recommend? i know its gonna be a pain to get a board with these to the UK but i would like to get some opinions.
(yes, one is clicky and one is tactile so shhhhhhhhhhh)
i think this has been covered a lot here but i would like to know.
To be honest, SKCM Blue is just the most well-rounded switch that Alps has to offer. The others are just great selections in different areas, but blue owns the clicky side and is just overall very solid.
For typical tactiles, SKCM Cream or Orange is good. For the "topre" tactiles, both brown and green are similar, both are great, a bit stiff, but the bamboo ones are even more "rounded" and less tactile than the pines and SKCM Brown.
The pine SKCM Green feel closest to SKCM Brown, in my opinion. When I get that NIB Xerox 6085 with browns, I can do a direct comparison against its younger brethren to see just how different they feel, but comparing my FMJ Alps board (aluminum-cased 60% w/ carbon fiber plate) and a DocuTech doesn't seem too balanced.
I can get what you're saying in terms of tactility. It's strong and similar to Salmon, but the Salmon reset immediately after the slider passes the tactile bump, while the leaves in both brown and green have more of a curve that extends far down into the travel. So it it feels like a chunkier switch because the tactile spring is pushing against that slider for most of the travel.
Salmons feel hollow in comparison, imo.
The top housings affecting tactility like that is really strange though. I put pines in bamboo housings and bamboo in pine housings and they felt identical to each other when swapped like that. The bamboos felt just like pines with pine tops from salmon Alps swapped on.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 19 August 2016, 16:26:47
Yeah, it makes sense what you're saying, reason I said salmon is probably because I don't have any brown boards yet xD . I only have three main colour Alps keyboards to go, I think xD.Yeah, that would be exactly my assessment as well. I think it's very hard to go wrong with blue. And orange is fantastic as well, under-appreciated compared to blue, but still, it's not clicky xD . Pine greens feel almost like salmons IMO, not quite the same, but not as distinctly different as the bamboo greens. Those guys are a whole different kettle of fish.out of SKCM Blue and SKCM Green, what do you guys recommend? i know its gonna be a pain to get a board with these to the UK but i would like to get some opinions.
(yes, one is clicky and one is tactile so shhhhhhhhhhh)
i think this has been covered a lot here but i would like to know.
To be honest, SKCM Blue is just the most well-rounded switch that Alps has to offer. The others are just great selections in different areas, but blue owns the clicky side and is just overall very solid.
For typical tactiles, SKCM Cream or Orange is good. For the "topre" tactiles, both brown and green are similar, both are great, a bit stiff, but the bamboo ones are even more "rounded" and less tactile than the pines and SKCM Brown.
The pine SKCM Green feel closest to SKCM Brown, in my opinion. When I get that NIB Xerox 6085 with browns, I can do a direct comparison against its younger brethren to see just how different they feel, but comparing my FMJ Alps board (aluminum-cased 60% w/ carbon fiber plate) and a DocuTech doesn't seem too balanced.
I can get what you're saying in terms of tactility. It's strong and similar to Salmon, but the Salmon reset immediately after the slider passes the tactile bump, while the leaves in both brown and green have more of a curve that extends far down into the travel. So it it feels like a chunkier switch because the tactile spring is pushing against that slider for most of the travel.
Salmons feel hollow in comparison, imo.
The top housings affecting tactility like that is really strange though. I put pines in bamboo housings and bamboo in pine housings and they felt identical to each other when swapped like that. The bamboos felt just like pines with pine tops from salmon Alps swapped on.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 17:00:23
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 17:33:22
Yeah, it makes sense what you're saying, reason I said salmon is probably because I don't have any brown boards yet xD . I only have three main colour Alps keyboards to go, I think xD.
Haha, yeah. I understand that. The lineage of SKCM brown is really strange to think about. It was what seems to be the first tactile Alps switch and then it went on up to 1989 and its unique force curve was continued on with SKCM green which continued into the late 90s at least. Still curious to see how long DocuTech keyboards were actually produced. 1998 is our latest date as of yet.
Sharp used scoops for the X68K
Those were ABS, right?
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 19 August 2016, 17:34:01
However, I also have a custom 60% board with SKCM brown Alps mounted in a stainless steel plate. The Alps browns in the custom board feel extremely heavy (uncomfortably so), and the tactility is even more pronounced than it is in the IBM or Videowriter boards.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 17:38:23
I think a softer or more flexible plate material would be better for more tactile switches. Either steel as in vintages or aluminum.
My Orion has a stainless steel plate, but it doesn't really seem to do much to the SKCM blues.
As for feeling heavier than normal, maybe because of less flex, it's more fatiguing to your joints to type? Hmm.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 17:40:43
thanks for the advice. i think i will try and get blues. only problem is that they are impossible to get in the UK.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 19 August 2016, 17:50:08
thanks for the advice. i think i will try and get blues. only problem is that they are impossible to get in the UK.
Some of us really like clicky switches. Personally, I think that the noise is generally irrelevant and actually more of a negative, but tactility is supremely important to me.
That said, I think that orange (or salmon) Alps are very very close to being "as good" as blue, and although lacking the click, they are still satisfyingly tactile.
An old Apple keyboard (AEK "1") is probably much easier and cheaper to acquire, and it is a very well-built keyboard with the best Alps key caps ever, in my opinion. If you can find an ADB converter, that is the easiest and best place to start.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 18:53:22
!. Made some profit
2. Needed the teensy
3. No rollover.
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 18:58:45
I used to have a IIgs with orange alps. I loved it but sold it because
!. Made some profit
2. Needed the teensy
3. No rollover.
The M0116 has really crappy rollover too. Unsuitable for stuff like gaming.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:05:39
to add onto this, my packard bell has really crappy rollover, barely any 3+ combinations work.I used to have a IIgs with orange alps. I loved it but sold it because
!. Made some profit
2. Needed the teensy
3. No rollover.
The M0116 has really crappy rollover too. Unsuitable for stuff like gaming.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:06:45
Thats a real shame, especially since its a linear board.to add onto this, my packard bell has really crappy rollover, barely any 3+ combinations work.I used to have a IIgs with orange alps. I loved it but sold it because
!. Made some profit
2. Needed the teensy
3. No rollover.
The M0116 has really crappy rollover too. Unsuitable for stuff like gaming.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:09:50
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:12:44
For me, key rollover is everything. As much as I loved orange alps, it made me hate the board. If I get round to my perfect alps build, I will specifically look for key rollover.Most customs have nkro capability, so youll be good there. are you interested in a 60% custom? if so hasu's alps64 pcb supports nkro and is fully programmable. The only readily available tkl pcb for alps/matias is the kbp v80, it also supports nkro.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:17:17
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:20:15
By custom, i mean putting switches of my choice in a vintage board. Also out of curiosity, what is plate compatibility like?. Lets say I solder my alps switch of choice into an AT101W plate, will the at101w plate fit any other cases? I could have it like a sleeper car (a really crappy car that has a very powerful engine in) (basically a stock at101w with blues)if I were you I wouldnt bother with an at101w. desoldering them is a real ***** because silitek had the great idea of bending over the legs of the switches. If I was to swap switches I would start with a northgate omnikey.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:23:16
By custom, i mean putting switches of my choice in a vintage board. Also out of curiosity, what is plate compatibility like?. Lets say I solder my alps switch of choice into an AT101W plate, will the at101w plate fit any other cases? I could have it like a sleeper car (a really crappy car that has a very powerful engine in) (basically a stock at101w with blues)if I were you I wouldnt bother with an at101w. desoldering them is a real ***** because silitek had the great idea of bending over the legs of the switches. If I was to swap switches I would start with a northgate omnikey.
If I could afford an omnikey :p
I think if I can get some white alps, I will do the fk2001 for my first custom.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:25:26
They shouldnt be all that out of reach, atleast across the pond they arent. I paid about 70$ for mine shipped to my door.By custom, i mean putting switches of my choice in a vintage board. Also out of curiosity, what is plate compatibility like?. Lets say I solder my alps switch of choice into an AT101W plate, will the at101w plate fit any other cases? I could have it like a sleeper car (a really crappy car that has a very powerful engine in) (basically a stock at101w with blues)if I were you I wouldnt bother with an at101w. desoldering them is a real ***** because silitek had the great idea of bending over the legs of the switches. If I was to swap switches I would start with a northgate omnikey.
If I could afford an omnikey :p
I think if I can get some white alps, I will do the fk2001 for my first custom.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:30:38
Post by: chyros on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:34:16
I used to have a IIgs with orange alps. I loved it but sold it becauseNO rollover! You mean it can't detect ANY keypresses simultaneously?! :p
!. Made some profit
2. Needed the teensy
3. No rollover.
Tbh there are precious few Alps boards with NKRO. Mostly it's the really heavy duty stuff, like OmniKeys and Zeniths.
If you lived in the good ol' ye olde England, you would feel our struggle.Not impossible mate, just be assertive, I'm sure you can do it :) .
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:36:29
Same with my Packard Bell. Can't press arrow up, shift and x at the same time for example on BeamNG for shifting. Other than gaming the rollover doesn't have an effect. Wonder if it would be possible to do a bit of extra hand wiring to bypass the issue actually. Don't want to touch this thing with a Soldering Iron at all though.to add onto this, my packard bell has really crappy rollover, barely any 3+ combinations work.I used to have a IIgs with orange alps. I loved it but sold it because
!. Made some profit
2. Needed the teensy
3. No rollover.
The M0116 has really crappy rollover too. Unsuitable for stuff like gaming.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:37:34
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:39:36
That would still be impossible unless you added a teensy to the equation. the original controller was only designed for 2kro.Same with my Packard Bell. Can't press arrow up, shift and x at the same time for example on BeamNG for shifting. Other than gaming the rollover doesn't have an effect. Wonder if it would be possible to do a bit of extra hand wiring to bypass the issue actually. Don't want to touch this thing with a Soldering Iron at all though.to add onto this, my packard bell has really crappy rollover, barely any 3+ combinations work.I used to have a IIgs with orange alps. I loved it but sold it because
!. Made some profit
2. Needed the teensy
3. No rollover.
The M0116 has really crappy rollover too. Unsuitable for stuff like gaming.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:48:20
But the shipping is ridiculous. Guess I gotta stick to my SMKs and black alps :pwow, you werent kidding. I just took a quick look through ebay.co.uk and I am even more thankful I live in the USA now.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:50:44
But yeah, I was looking for a while for the DC-3014 just because of its NKRO. Outside of blue alps, I know the Omnikey 101 has it, and the Zenith ZKB-2 has it. Those are the only ANSI or ANSI-like boards I can think of with NKRO.
Quite a few of the 84 key (modified XT layout) boards I've seen had NKRO though. The Z-150s, the DC-2014, and even the Xerox 6085/DocuTechs all have NKRO (ironically, I could not use any of these examples when I owned them). I know there's more.
Also, that IBM Model M clone seemed to have diodes in its matrix if I'm not mistaken.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:51:53
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:55:26
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:59:00
My model m clone that came from taobao had no diodes.
Snap, there we go. I was wondering that because it looked like it on the Deskthority thread, unless they had several versions.
I have tried to low ball sellers to get stuff for cheaper but it doesn't work. This is why I need to move to the USA. :p
I was blissfully hopeful when I first started my search for blue Alps boards, that I could find them for as low as $50, but I still haven't ever gotten one that cheap, and the average price I was paying was like, $100 for them.
I was happy to not pay $100 for the DC-2014 I bought. I feel that is too expensive for such a common model, but that's me being cheap, I guess. xP I snagged mine for $85. I actually got the DC-3014 for $5 less.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 20:03:52
My model m clone that came from taobao had no diodes.
Snap, there we go. I was wondering that because it looked like it on the Deskthority thread, unless they had several versions.I have tried to low ball sellers to get stuff for cheaper but it doesn't work. This is why I need to move to the USA. :p
I was blissfully hopeful when I first started my search for blue Alps boards, that I could find them for as low as $50, but I still haven't ever gotten one that cheap, and the average price I was paying was like, $100 for them.
I was happy to not pay $100 for the DC-2014 I bought. I feel that is too expensive for such a common model, but that's me being cheap, I guess. xP I snagged mine for $85. I actually got the DC-3014 for $5 less.
Yeah, I've seen super cheap keyboards that I would get BUT ive seen some with postage 4x the price. A model M for $22 is amazing but im not paying $45 shipping...
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 20:27:56
Post by: emdude on Fri, 19 August 2016, 20:29:05
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 20:51:03
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 19 August 2016, 20:58:25
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 19 August 2016, 21:32:54
The Packard went with the rest of them in storage. Keep all of them faceup in a closed closet (no yellowing, although my SGI spacebar is a bit yellowed again :() with nothing on them besides their cables, and I try to keep that at a minimum.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 19 August 2016, 22:05:16
Switched to my SGI Granite w/ SKCM Orange from the Packard as my daily. Missed that solid PBT tactile sensation. Refreshing.
The Packard went with the rest of them in storage. Keep all of them faceup in a closed closet (no yellowing, although my SGI spacebar is a bit yellowed again :() with nothing on them besides their cables, and I try to keep that at a minimum.
I've actually seen some of my DocuTechs seemingly get a slight bit yellow again after storing them away. I RB'd them twice. After the second time the 1997 hasn't, but maybe it's because I had it on display.
It's probably because our central AC unit broke three months ago. Even though my room was never steaming hot (used a window unit, but it wasn't too great at cooling the whole room), it might've gotten the boards to reyellow a little. Finally got the AC unit replaced though and it's frigid in here, so hopefully that doesn't happen again.
Only the parts that were formerly yellow did this. The boards I have with no yellowing didn't yellow at all, or the parts on the DocuTechs that weren't yellow to begin with.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 20 August 2016, 02:36:51
I wrote a lengthy explanation on why this happens on DT, basically retrobright can't undo the damage to the plastic which leaves it vulnerable to attack by molecular oxygen.Switched to my SGI Granite w/ SKCM Orange from the Packard as my daily. Missed that solid PBT tactile sensation. Refreshing.
The Packard went with the rest of them in storage. Keep all of them faceup in a closed closet (no yellowing, although my SGI spacebar is a bit yellowed again :() with nothing on them besides their cables, and I try to keep that at a minimum.
I've actually seen some of my DocuTechs seemingly get a slight bit yellow again after storing them away. I RB'd them twice. After the second time the 1997 hasn't, but maybe it's because I had it on display.
It's probably because our central AC unit broke three months ago. Even though my room was never steaming hot (used a window unit, but it wasn't too great at cooling the whole room), it might've gotten the boards to reyellow a little. Finally got the AC unit replaced though and it's frigid in here, so hopefully that doesn't happen again.
Only the parts that were formerly yellow did this. The boards I have with no yellowing didn't yellow at all, or the parts on the DocuTechs that weren't yellow to begin with.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 20 August 2016, 03:00:40
I wrote a lengthy explanation on why this happens on DT, basically retrobright can't undo the damage to the plastic which leaves it vulnerable to attack by molecular oxygen.
I did read that, actually, but it'd take a few more reads to really sink in every detail. :P
Would you say that heat hastens the process of reyellowing? Are all retrobrighted keyboards truly destined to become yellowed again? Some of my boards haven't reyellowed as of now, but I have heard that it typically happens in the span of a few years.
It DEFINITELY seems like the yellowed (ie damaged) plastic is all that reyellows and not the plastic that never suffered it in the first place, though the UV treating that comes with retrobrighting worries me slightly when it comes to the plastic that hasn't yellowed being exposed.
I've actually never had old electronics yellow on me in my time of owning things like the SNES and others that were prone to it (even the gamecube's front bezel, I've heard). I've only ever received yellowed electronics in the way of vintage keyboards. :rolleyes:
Post by: chyros on Sat, 20 August 2016, 03:38:47
Heat hastens all processes, so definitely, yeah.I wrote a lengthy explanation on why this happens on DT, basically retrobright can't undo the damage to the plastic which leaves it vulnerable to attack by molecular oxygen.
I did read that, actually, but it'd take a few more reads to really sink in every detail. :P
Would you say that heat hastens the process of reyellowing? Are all retrobrighted keyboards truly destined to become yellowed again? Some of my boards haven't reyellowed as of now, but I have heard that it typically happens in the span of a few years.
It DEFINITELY seems like the yellowed (ie damaged) plastic is all that reyellows and not the plastic that never suffered it in the first place, though the UV treating that comes with retrobrighting worries me slightly when it comes to the plastic that hasn't yellowed being exposed.
I've actually never had old electronics yellow on me in my time of owning things like the SNES and others that were prone to it (even the gamecube's front bezel, I've heard). I've only ever received yellowed electronics in the way of vintage keyboards. :rolleyes:
The reason only the yellowed portions re-yellow again is because that's where the plastic is most damaged. I'm also pretty certain the treatment itself isn't exactly good for the plastic, either.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 20 August 2016, 04:07:44
Heat hastens all processes, so definitely, yeah.
The reason only the yellowed portions re-yellow again is because that's where the plastic is most damaged. I'm also pretty certain the treatment itself isn't exactly good for the plastic, either.
That makes sense. Yeah, I've read that a certain museum decided against retrobrighting as a method for restoration because of how it weakens the plastic further.
Two questions for you, my expert chemist friend:
1) Is it at all possible to halt or prevent the reyellowing, or is it inevitable?
2) I'm not sure if you have, but do you forego retrobrighting because of this, or have you ever thought of doing it?
It's a shame, since the plastics look so much nicer with that fresh, new look. I wonder how much exposure to heat/UV led to the yellowing in the first place. It's so common to see yellowed boards from the '80s.
I know I've seen some yellowed Focus boards, but I can't recall many of those ever being too yellowed. Does the yellowing have to do mostly with different formulations used for the plastics?
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 20 August 2016, 05:33:45
Yeah, it makes sense what you're saying, reason I said salmon is probably because I don't have any brown boards yet xD . I only have three main colour Alps keyboards to go, I think xD.
Haha, yeah. I understand that. The lineage of SKCM brown is really strange to think about. It was what seems to be the first tactile Alps switch and then it went on up to 1989 and its unique force curve was continued on with SKCM green which continued into the late 90s at least. Still curious to see how long DocuTech keyboards were actually produced. 1998 is our latest date as of yet.Sharp used scoops for the X68K
Those were ABS, right?
ABS. Also still need Lime and Brown Alps, those have stayed out of reach.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 20 August 2016, 07:00:24
Just transplant in the switch type of your choice:
i wish :p
Post by: E3E on Sat, 20 August 2016, 09:18:48
ABS. Also still need Lime and Brown Alps, those have stayed out of reach.
Did you manage to snag some brown linear boards?
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 20 August 2016, 09:43:02
ABS. Also still need Lime and Brown Alps, those have stayed out of reach.
Did you manage to snag some brown linear boards?
No, only time I've been close is a VideoWriter but that was Mitsumi.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 20 August 2016, 17:22:43
No worries :) .Heat hastens all processes, so definitely, yeah.
The reason only the yellowed portions re-yellow again is because that's where the plastic is most damaged. I'm also pretty certain the treatment itself isn't exactly good for the plastic, either.
That makes sense. Yeah, I've read that a certain museum decided against retrobrighting as a method for restoration because of how it weakens the plastic further.
Two questions for you, my expert chemist friend:
1) Is it at all possible to halt or prevent the reyellowing, or is it inevitable?
2) I'm not sure if you have, but do you forego retrobrighting because of this, or have you ever thought of doing it?
It's a shame, since the plastics look so much nicer with that fresh, new look. I wonder how much exposure to heat/UV led to the yellowing in the first place. It's so common to see yellowed boards from the '80s.
I know I've seen some yellowed Focus boards, but I can't recall many of those ever being too yellowed. Does the yellowing have to do mostly with different formulations used for the plastics?
1) Unless you're working in an oxygen-free environment, this is not possible, unfortunately.
2) Partly. I also think that yellowing, while ugly, adds character. Of course I prefer boards without it, but I really don't mind if they are. I'm much more interested in condition. It's also not cheap. If I get a yellowed SGI Granite I might, though, as yellowing kind of clashes with its signature thing.
3) Yes, different formulations will result in different levels of yellowing. I don't think modern ABS would yellow nearly as quickly.
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 20 August 2016, 17:27:08
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 20 August 2016, 18:22:21
[attachimg=1]
http://people.brandeis.edu/~sekuler/SensoryProcessesMaterial/eyesGetOld.html
The rate of yellowing depends upon a number of factors in addition to age, e.g., UV light exposure, blood sugar levels, genetics, and antioxidant levels.
The chemistry of aging and yellowing of synthetic polymers seems to depend heavily on UV-induced formation of free radicals, and so these reactions can be attenuated by surface coatings to block UV light and/or by adding free radical scavengers. Conversely, some flame retardants, especially brominated ones, can contribute to the formation of free radicals and accelerate the yellowing of synthetic polymers.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 20 August 2016, 19:03:53
i am the type of impatient person who just likes to get stuff done and since i have no other alps mount boards on hand, i may as well go for it. i am thinking that i may buy some PBT caps and dye them in a camo paint slash, exactly the same as Arnie in commando. if it goes well, i can finally let off some steam. (okay, i'm sorry for that joke but that was such a good opportunity)
the only thing i hate about the AT101W is the case. if all goes well, i might laser a sheet of acrylic and use standoffs to make a base.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 20 August 2016, 19:40:43
Sometimes, the assembler got a little impulsive and bent over way too many legs (5%-10% is plenty) which makes removing the old ones much harder than it needs to be.
And the black cases are more desirable, but the AT101 is an awesome keyboard and not to be dismissed.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sat, 20 August 2016, 19:49:08
The AT101W is an excellent keyboard, the 2nd-best Alps chassis to receive your switches. It is well-built, sturdy, and feels great to type on. If you don't have a Northgate, Dell is the way to go. I have done it more than once.
Sometimes, the assembler got a little impulsive and bent over way too many legs (5%-10% is plenty) which makes removing the old ones much harder than it needs to be.
And the black cases are more desirable, but the AT101 is an awesome keyboard and not to be dismissed.
yeah, i agree but people seem to think that i should use a slightly better keyboard. i would keep the switches stock (i modded the blacks to linear and clicky) but the plate is very rusty so i am going to sand it down and paint it. i guess keeping the stock black alps will keep the price low but i think white alps or even blues would be great.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 20 August 2016, 20:03:59
people seem to think that i should use a slightly better keyboard.
the plate is very rusty so i am going to sand it down and paint it.
The Dell "Bigfoot" keyboard is excellent all around, but lots of people have a fetish for smallness.
If you de-solder the switches (and the one that I used for the "faux-Dolch" model had *every single leg* bent over and was a major PITA) the plates will come apart immediately.
Sanding and painting is easy if you remove the plastic wire hold-down tabs, but they can be fussy and you probably don't have spares. I use a very small flat-head screwdriver and ease them in and out of their slots by gently bending the "C" portion slightly closed. Leaving them in place would make sanding and painting extremely difficult, but perhaps you could shield each one with a little spot of masking tape.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 20 August 2016, 21:21:36
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 20 August 2016, 23:39:46
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 21 August 2016, 09:22:16
The only reason I advised against using an at101w was the folded over switch legs, never said anything about the build quality
This is a function of whoever assembled it originally. Most of the ones that I have done were reasonable.
Half a dozen (4 corners and 2 interior) bend-overs is entirely adequate, but I suspect that newbies might have bent them all over to ensure passing QC. I doubt that an experienced assembler would continue to do it because of the wasted time and effort.
I have gotten other Alps boards with far too many legs bent over, as well, including one of my Northgates.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 21 August 2016, 10:01:43
i know i was told not to use a dell AT101W to swap switches, but i am doing it!.It's a pain to desolder all the switches because the pins on ALL of them are bent in the AT101, but the board is one of the better Alps chassis around, and certainly the most forthcoming.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Sun, 21 August 2016, 10:09:04
Post by: ED2914 on Sun, 21 August 2016, 10:50:23
I fixed and cleaned the fake Model M finally. The key feel is terrible as the key caps are too high. It's become very stiff when the press is not directly going downward.
It's surprising that the board is NKRO but the repeat rate will slow down quite a bit. While I use USB adapter, the board will downgrade to 6KRO but the repeat rate will back to normal.
I may try to de-solder the chip and change to Northgate Omnikey's one next week to see the difference.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 21 August 2016, 13:01:22
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 21 August 2016, 13:15:09
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 21 August 2016, 13:33:17
What is a good cleaning solution/method to clean the SKCL Green housings? Alcohol with a q tip and warm soapy water soak for a couple of hours hasn't cut it. Have a ton of switches from my China haul to put back together. Right now I have about 45 SKCM Blues that are fully restored. The blues are ready to put back together its just that summer is over i'm quite busy again. Will pick that up at a later point.I am in pretty much the same boat. I have about 35 out of my 200 or so blues fully restored. The ones that are finished feel very nice though.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 21 August 2016, 14:08:38
I fixed and cleaned the fake Model M finally. The key feel is terrible as the key caps are too high. It's become very stiff when the press is not directly going downward.
It's surprising that the board is NKRO but the repeat rate will slow down quite a bit. While I use USB adapter, the board will downgrade to 6KRO but the repeat rate will back to normal.
I may try to de-solder the chip and change to Northgate Omnikey's one next week to see the difference.
So some do have NKRO. Seems that there is some variation then. Binding keys, I've learned, are mainly from the switch tops. You'd want to replace them with ones in good condition to truly restore the feel. Cleaning alone won't do it. Lubing with dry lube gets it closer, but I think once they wear down, that binding won't be totally fixable.
It's like that on my DocuTechs vs my 6085 w/ SKCM Green. The 6085, despite all the switches being clean as a whistle, has binding issues when pressed off center. The DocuTechs, despite having grit in the switches, are very smooth and do not have binding. I cleaned out all of the DocuTechs' switches though, but did not lube them.
I hit up the 6085 with molybdenum disulfide powder, and while it works pretty well, it's not 100% the same. Only switching one of the tops with a less worn top gave it that like-new feeling.
I think this is normal wear or some kind of weird degredation. I'm not sure. The 6085 has no shine on the caps and didn't really have much dirt on the plate either. I really don't know what the issue is.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 21 August 2016, 14:48:59
Post by: romevi on Sun, 21 August 2016, 17:17:37
ED2914: What is the "fake Model M"? Could you give some details about this board?
Unicomp, maybe?
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 21 August 2016, 19:40:00
ED2914: What is the "fake Model M"? Could you give some details about this board?
Unicomp, maybe?
No there are some Alps boards found in China that are modeled to look like IBM Model M boardsboards. Speaking of which, I'll get my hands on mine this week, I just got them forwarded to my new place and they are nearby now.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 21 August 2016, 20:27:34
ED2914: What is the "fake Model M"? Could you give some details about this board?
Unicomp, maybe?
No there are some Alps boards found in China that are modeled to look like IBM Model M boards. Speaking of which, I'll get my hands on mine this week, I just got them forwarded to my new place and they are nearby now.
In this thread a while back, there was a Chinese user who also had a blue alps Model M, (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg1433506#msg1433506) what are the quality of the caps? Cherry is great in respect to accommodating off center presses and high profile keysets.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 22 August 2016, 01:23:59
In this thread a while back, there was a Chinese user who also had a blue alps Model M, (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg1433506#msg1433506) what are the quality of the caps? Cherry is great in respect to accommodating off center presses and high profile keysets.
While the caps might play a factor, I'm a little doubtful of this. In my experience, it's the switch top housings that create binding. Replacing those with fresh top housings restores a smooth feel where off-center presses pose no problems. I used to think Alps had an off-center issue too, but then I realized it was the switches' condition.
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 22 August 2016, 01:40:33
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 22 August 2016, 01:49:07
In this thread a while back, there was a Chinese user who also had a blue alps Model M, (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg1433506#msg1433506) what are the quality of the caps? Cherry is great in respect to accommodating off center presses and high profile keysets.
While the caps might play a factor, I'm a little doubtful of this. In my experience, it's the switch top housings that create binding. Replacing those with fresh top housings restores a smooth feel where off-center presses pose no problems. I used to think Alps had an off-center issue too, but then I realized it was the switches' condition.
Interesting, I just now messed around with AEK alphas and F-Row keycaps on a few different boards in various condition. My quick n' dirty tests seemed line up with what you were saying. When pressing off center, condition played a big role and the key's profile added to the problem.
Post by: lunas on Mon, 22 August 2016, 20:11:04
Post by: emdude on Mon, 22 August 2016, 20:39:55
(http://i.imgur.com/GrKwYAa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NCwpEpE.jpg)
Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 22 August 2016, 20:51:12
Finished my Brown Alps board! Pretty fun build and great keyboard to use:WannnnnnnttttShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GrKwYAa.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NCwpEpE.jpg)
Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 22 August 2016, 23:41:10
Finished my Brown Alps board! Pretty fun build and great keyboard to use:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GrKwYAa.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NCwpEpE.jpg)
Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0
I like the enter key.
It's like a big-ass enter key wearing a girdle.
Post by: Moistgun on Tue, 23 August 2016, 00:01:46
Finished my Brown Alps board! Pretty fun build and great keyboard to use:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GrKwYAa.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NCwpEpE.jpg)
Brief build log here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84246.0
SOO MUCH ENTER.
I actually like this alot. Very unique.
what kind of shape are the browns in?
Post by: emdude on Tue, 23 August 2016, 00:11:58
SOO MUCH ENTER.
I actually like this alot. Very unique.
what kind of shape are the browns in?
The browns are in pretty good shape, there was practically no dust in the switches even before I cleaned up the housings.
I like the enter key.
It's like a big-ass enter key wearing a girdle.
I like it a lot too! I suppose it's more of a 'slim'-ass Enter, reminds me of the BAEs on some vintage Apple boards like the M0116.
I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts. ;D
Post by: chyros on Tue, 23 August 2016, 02:49:34
Teehee :D . Nice board btw! :)SOO MUCH ENTER.
I actually like this alot. Very unique.
what kind of shape are the browns in?
The browns are in pretty good shape, there was practically no dust in the switches even before I cleaned up the housings.I like the enter key.
It's like a big-ass enter key wearing a girdle.
I like it a lot too! I suppose it's more of a 'slim'-ass Enter, reminds me of the BAEs on some vintage Apple boards like the M0116.
I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts. ;D
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 23 August 2016, 06:08:54
Just finished putting together an Infinity using Salmon Alps harvested from an Apple M0116. This is my first try with Alps. I love the way they sound, but the switch is very stiff, almost mushy, compared to the clears and zeals I'm more used to. Prior to soldering, I opened up every switch and brushed them out, although they were all pretty clean. Is that typical for Salmons to feel much stiffer than cherry clears?
Probably feels mushy from when you opened it up.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 23 August 2016, 07:19:09
I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts.
Teehee
Bigass Enter does not bother me in the slightest, and I even kind of like the way it looks.
What kills the deal for me is 1u Backspace and split Shift keys, because I habitually use the "other side" of those keys.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 23 August 2016, 08:03:09
What about the Northgate layout then?
I think I can understand why Chyros like BAE layouts.
Teehee
Bigass Enter does not bother me in the slightest, and I even kind of like the way it looks.
What kills the deal for me is 1u Backspace and split Shift keys, because I habitually use the "other side" of those keys.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 23 August 2016, 08:19:54
What about the Northgate layout then?
The only Northgate that I keep is the 101. I just wish that there was a 101+ that had left function keys. I had hoped that Northgate had done like IBM and built a circuit board that had switch locations to make various layouts possible, but, alas, no.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 23 August 2016, 08:29:52
And I second fohat, 101+ would be awesome. Omnikey Unsaver would be better, though :))
Post by: chyros on Tue, 23 August 2016, 08:43:23
That's just an ANSI layout, I kinda meant the one with the bigass enter, fullsize backspace and the extra keys between ctrl and alt (as opposed to a split right shift). That one circumvents the small backspace and split shift :) .
What about the Northgate layout then?
The only Northgate that I keep is the 101. I just wish that there was a 101+ that had left function keys. I had hoped that Northgate had done like IBM and built a circuit board that had switch locations to make various layouts possible, but, alas, no.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 23 August 2016, 08:45:07
I have a 60% custom SKCM brown Alps board with a stainless steel plate. The person who built the board told me that the switches are from a Videowriter 250. I had typed on a Videowriter and on an IBM 5140, both with SKCM tactile brown Alps, and the switches felt just fine in their native boards. However, these switches in the custom 60% board feel very stiff and unyielding. I attribute this to the rigid stainless steel plate.
I'm typing now on my Northgate Omnikey 101. I like the sound and feel of this board very much, and I seem to type faster and more accurately on it than on other Alps-switch boards. It also looks fairly good with the Tai-Hao Dolch keycaps. However, I wish I could shrink it to 60% or even TKL! (But maybe it needs a long plate and PCB to enable it to flex a bit -- if I could shrink the Omnikey to 60%, I wonder if it would feel too stiff and unyielding?).
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 23 August 2016, 09:58:16
I kinda meant the one with the bigass enter, fullsize backspace and the extra keys between ctrl and alt (as opposed to a split right shift).
That one circumvents the small backspace and split shift .
I'm not sure that I have ever had one of those. What model is it? I don't think that I have ever had a later one with Windows keys.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 23 August 2016, 10:17:38
Sorry, I seem to have misremembered. I thought this layout was present on some Northgates, but it appears they ALL had the split right shift apart from the 101. The layout I mean is actually another Focus layout (not the one generally referred to as THE Focus layout):
I kinda meant the one with the bigass enter, fullsize backspace and the extra keys between ctrl and alt (as opposed to a split right shift).
That one circumvents the small backspace and split shift .
I'm not sure that I have ever had one of those. What model is it? I don't think that I have ever had a later one with Windows keys.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4231797044_24fb728ce2_b.jpg)
The blank key on the left side is also a backslash key, by the way, it just uses a different scan code.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 23 August 2016, 11:12:15
@emdude: Nice custom board! What was your source of brown Alps? Are they SKCM tactile browns?
I have a 60% custom SKCM brown Alps board with a stainless steel plate. The person who built the board told me that the switches are from a Videowriter 250. I had typed on a Videowriter and on an IBM 5140, both with SKCM tactile brown Alps, and the switches felt just fine in their native boards. However, these switches in the custom 60% board feel very stiff and unyielding. I attribute this to the rigid stainless steel plate.
I'm typing now on my Northgate Omnikey 101. I like the sound and feel of this board very much, and I seem to type faster and more accurately on it than on other Alps-switch boards. It also looks fairly good with the Tai-Hao Dolch keycaps. However, I wish I could shrink it to 60% or even TKL! (But maybe it needs a long plate and PCB to enable it to flex a bit -- if I could shrink the Omnikey to 60%, I wonder if it would feel too stiff and unyielding?).
Thanks, and yeah, they are tactile Browns from the same 5140 I got the key caps from.
I have another 5140 keyboard and for some reason, the SKCM Browns in those feel just slightly less stiff as well; not too much of a difference, though.
Out of curiosity, what is the thickness of the plate in your board? My custom uses a 1.0mm stainless steel plate, at the bottom end of what Alps specs recommend, and it felt pretty pliable. Perhaps that's why my board does not feel too harsh.
Post by: lunas on Tue, 23 August 2016, 13:35:40
Just finished putting together an Infinity using Salmon Alps harvested from an Apple M0116. This is my first try with Alps. I love the way they sound, but the switch is very stiff, almost mushy, compared to the clears and zeals I'm more used to. Prior to soldering, I opened up every switch and brushed them out, although they were all pretty clean. Is that typical for Salmons to feel much stiffer than cherry clears?
Probably feels mushy from when you opened it up.
How so? Do you think I did more damage than good? The main issue seems to be when typing quickly and not hitting on center which I know can be a reason for stiffness on some Alps. Maybe some dry lube will make a difference, although I tested a few with lube and they didn't feel much different pre-install.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 23 August 2016, 14:34:53
On my brown Alps 60%, I have installed IBM 5140 dye-sub PBT alphanumerics, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, and a red doubleshot ABS Esc from SP. The IBM 5140 dye-sub PBTs are my favorites for alpha keys on Alps-mount keyboards.
In the meantime, I am really enjoying my Northgate Omnikey 101. The more I type on it, the more I like it. The main drawback is that I much prefer either a 60% or TKL form factor. I also like to use a HHKB layout -- I can achieve the layout nearly enough through remapping, but I can't readily change the size of the keyboard!
Next project -- I am going to change the color of the Omnikey 101 top case after I round up the necessary items.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 23 August 2016, 14:52:23
@emdude: I don't know the thickness of the stainless steel plate in my custom brown Alps 60% board. From what I can see on the edge, it looks like the plate might be thicker than 1.0 mm. If I should decide to take it out of its aluminum case, I will try to remember to measure the thickness of the plate and let you know.
On my brown Alps 60%, I have installed IBM 5140 dye-sub PBT alphanumerics, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, and a red doubleshot ABS Esc from SP. The IBM 5140 dye-sub PBTs are my favorites for alpha keys on Alps-mount keyboards.
In the meantime, I am really enjoying my Northgate Omnikey 101. The more I type on it, the more I like it. The main drawback is that I much prefer either a 60% or TKL form factor. I also like to use a HHKB layout -- I can achieve the layout nearly enough through remapping, but I can't readily change the size of the keyboard!
Next project -- I am going to change the color of the Omnikey 101 top case after I round up the necessary items.
Interesting, I forgot that SP had a small selection of Alps key caps. I might pick up that red Esc key, the profile for that row looks similar enough to Alps OEM.
Your Omnikey project sounds neat, how do you plan to change the color of the top case? Paint, plasti dip, or dye?
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 23 August 2016, 15:19:04
@emdude: I don't know the thickness of the stainless steel plate in my custom brown Alps 60% board. From what I can see on the edge, it looks like the plate might be thicker than 1.0 mm. If I should decide to take it out of its aluminum case, I will try to remember to measure the thickness of the plate and let you know.As for painting omnikey cases, do you remember when I painted my avant prime case beige to hide yellowing? It still looks good. The cases will accept paint nicely if you want to go that route.
On my brown Alps 60%, I have installed IBM 5140 dye-sub PBT alphanumerics, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, and a red doubleshot ABS Esc from SP. The IBM 5140 dye-sub PBTs are my favorites for alpha keys on Alps-mount keyboards.
In the meantime, I am really enjoying my Northgate Omnikey 101. The more I type on it, the more I like it. The main drawback is that I much prefer either a 60% or TKL form factor. I also like to use a HHKB layout -- I can achieve the layout nearly enough through remapping, but I can't readily change the size of the keyboard!
Next project -- I am going to change the color of the Omnikey 101 top case after I round up the necessary items.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 23 August 2016, 16:39:14
+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.
+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.
I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.
I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 23 August 2016, 18:41:20
Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:
+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.
+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.
I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.
I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.
I think SEM or VHT would work quite well, though I have heard that SEM can potentially rub off and is more of a layer. I know Wingpad has experience with VHT. I myself would try VHT if I were dyeing a case or attempting to dye an ABS space bar (again). What I used for my Orion's space bar to make it black was using acetone in a solution with water and dye to allow it to penetrate the ABS at a low temperature and closely monitored it with a digital thermometer.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 23 August 2016, 19:53:24
I think SEM or VHT would work quite well, though I have heard that SEM can potentially rub off and is more of a layer. I know Wingpad has experience with VHT. I myself would try VHT if I were dyeing a case or attempting to dye an ABS space bar (again). What I used for my Orion's space bar to make it black was using acetone in a solution with water and dye to allow it to penetrate the ABS at a low temperature and closely monitored it with a digital thermometer.
I heard my name... you rang? Can confirm that VHT works well on ABS. Feel free to ask me anything about my experience. It has actually kept well over the last couple of months (and since it's a thin coating it preserves a lot of the details of the thing you're painting).
Post by: E3E on Tue, 23 August 2016, 19:57:45
I think SEM or VHT would work quite well, though I have heard that SEM can potentially rub off and is more of a layer. I know Wingpad has experience with VHT. I myself would try VHT if I were dyeing a case or attempting to dye an ABS space bar (again). What I used for my Orion's space bar to make it black was using acetone in a solution with water and dye to allow it to penetrate the ABS at a low temperature and closely monitored it with a digital thermometer.
I heard my name... you rang? Can confirm that VHT works well on ABS. Feel free to ask me anything about my experience. It has actually kept well over the last couple of months.
Here's a question, good sir.
Can ABS be dyed with VHT without the legends becoming obscured? Is it possible to dye in lighter shades of the same color or does it always amount to the same intensity. Say for more greyish blacks or lighter blues and what not.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 23 August 2016, 20:08:45
Here's a question, good sir.
Can ABS be dyed with VHT without the legends becoming obscured? Is it possible to dye in lighter shades of the same color or does it always amount to the same intensity. Say for more greyish blacks or lighter blues and what not.
From my experience, it seems like it will always come out to the intensity. If you're spraying "lightly" you'll just end up leaving things uncovered like a air brush effect in paint. I was able to save laser engraved legends but that's only because the thin coating preserves the laser engraved details of the cap itself. Note that your mileage may vary if you try applying it with something other than a rattle can.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 03:43:00
P.S. Wingpad, thanks for sharing your experience with dyeing.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 05:13:36
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 05:51:31
The difference between the switches is visible when pushing one slider against the other. At first, blue slider gives in, but right before it is about to actuate, amber starts giving in and actuates first. I am wondering if anyone can reproduce it, or it's just my blues giving too much resistance around the actuation point.
I'll play around with switching the housings when I catch time to see if there is any difference.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 06:31:09
I also tested my blues, which seem to be not in the best condition. Not bad like some whites I had, but could be smoother I guess. They actuate at 15 coins.Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?
The difference between the switches is visible when pushing one slider against the other. At first, blue slider gives in, but right before it is about to actuate, amber starts giving in and actuates first. I am wondering if anyone can reproduce it, or it's just my blues giving too much resistance around the actuation point.
I'll play around with switching the housings when I catch time to see if there is any difference.
Post by: PollandAkuma on Wed, 24 August 2016, 06:50:42
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 06:54:59
Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?
Well, for blues I tested bare switches, since I don't have them in the board yet. Haven't weighed the coins, but I always use the same set of nickels, and they shouldn't deviate much from 5g as they are specified. I also try to get the stack as straight as possible and as level as possible. I tested some 10 amber switches, and for blues, I took out just random 3 out of the bag.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 07:26:43
Yeah, they are usually cited as 80-100 gf but that's bull****, someone just had a dirty board. I've found it to be quite consistent at 75 gf.
I thought they felt very similar to Alps SKCM Brown when I had them in my custom. Like Hypersphere mentioned, the rigidity of a plate like stainless steel or CF, in my case, really makes the tactility incredibly pronounced. They felt fine in the Iic, but like rocky road in the Hammer. Their weight always struck me as similar to SKCM Brown, so I'm glad I wasn't off. :)
I think testing bare switches is the better way to do it. Firstly, because you don't have to deal with the cap's step making it awkward to balance the coins, and secondly, because caps add a bit of their own weight. I think it's best to test them alone.
That said, the blues I tested definitely weren't as stiff as ambers. Weird! I'll need to check weights again, though I have no ambers to test now.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 07:42:25
Hi ALPS fans, I'm new here. I've been interested in getting an Atreus with either Matias clicky or quiet click, but I'm worried that it'll be heavy, since I hate hate hate scissors switches (62-5g?). But on the other hand, I know ALPS can be lubed and stuff even without desoldering, so thats a plus. Right now I'm deciding between ALPS Atreus or HHKB. What do you think I should go for?Matias switches aren't exactly the same as Alps, but they're related for sure. Neither are known for being particularly light switches tbh xD . I'd advise against lubricating Alps and similar switches as no-one has found a lube that really works well with them yet.
Do you use only nickels or smaller coins too? I try to use different combinations of coins to narrow it down to as small a range (1-2 g) as possible. The heavy weigh of the blues you mentioned is really weird, it's much higher than we have on record, are they in good condition?Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?
Well, for blues I tested bare switches, since I don't have them in the board yet. Haven't weighed the coins, but I always use the same set of nickels, and they shouldn't deviate much from 5g as they are specified. I also try to get the stack as straight as possible and as level as possible. I tested some 10 amber switches, and for blues, I took out just random 3 out of the bag.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 07:55:45
I'd advise against lubricating Alps and similar switches as no-one has found a lube that really works well with them yet.
It's those damn top housings. Once they go, they're incredibly hard to restore. It's better to salvage tops off of good condition common boards than to try and clean and lubricate them; that only goes so far in my experience.
I'm still not sure what causes the wear to the tops in the first place, as I've seen clean switches that still have binding and it all comes from the tops. IMO, the top housings account for a majority of the feel in terms of condition, even beyond the sliders.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 08:10:33
Do you use only nickels or smaller coins too? I try to use different combinations of coins to narrow it down to as small a range (1-2 g) as possible. The heavy weigh of the blues you mentioned is really weird, it's much higher than we have on record, are they in good condition?
I use just nickels to get the approximate range of 5g. I never needed to narrow it down more, and the lightest common coins around these parts are 2.5g. There are two coins of 0,7g and 0,92g, but they are so small and worthless that nobody bothers with them :D And what do you know, there is a coin of exactly 5g, so I didn't need to collect all those nickels in the states :)
As for blues, it must be that their condition is worse than I hoped/expected/assumed. They are quite dirty on the outside, and I will have to open them up to see how they look inside. I'll also have to put some caps on and see if they bind then.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 08:35:26
Topre (both 45g and 55g) are among my favorites -- they are especially nice with Silencing Rings and lubing of stabilizers and switch slider rails with a synthetic oil. Neither Matias nor Topre feel too heavy to me, but some people report that 55g Topre can be fatiguing for long typing sessions.
As for the HHKB, for me, this board has a winning combination of ingredients -- 60% form factor, intuitive and efficient layout, Topre 45g switches, and excellent dye-sublimated PBT keycaps. It is even better after installing Silencing Rings and proper lubing.
Back to Alps appreciation -- one of the items on my long to-do list is to build a custom 60% board with blue Alps switches and a HHKB layout.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 08:39:54
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 08:48:01
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 08:49:33
A trick I've used is to stack my US nickles within the paper tubes that you get get at banks. This keeps the stack straight and prevents coins from toppling. You can weigh the paper if you like to include its contribution to the total weight.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 09:25:48
@Chyros: Wow! Six significant figures! ;)One one occasion I actually used the lab balance calibration weights xD . They're the kind that are so precise you need to wear them with gloves, because the weight of your fingerprints can upset them.
A trick I've used is to stack my US nickles within the paper tubes that you get get at banks. This keeps the stack straight and prevents coins from toppling. You can weigh the paper if you like to include its contribution to the total weight.
Thanks! It's nice to have some hard numbers as a reference. If you catch time, could you do the same with the blues?I could, but haven't bothered, because someone measured them with an actual force meter :) .
(http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/gif/alps22.gif)
It appears the measurement points have some margin of error as the lines are rather wavy, and I don't know how large the sample database was or what the condition of the switches was, but it's still pretty useful :) . Among others you can spot the origin of the "rough" feeling of black Alps, lower weight of orange Alps, different weights and tactile points of green and yellow Alps, etc.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 09:42:18
I bet the ambers would have the bump on the left side of that chart. Do we know why the blacks and creams have two bumps instead of one? In programmer terms, is it a (condition-related) bug or a feature of the design? :)
Edit: I guess oranges and whites have the same second bump, but it is not as pronounced, and linears also have what corresponds to a second bump in clickys and tactiles.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 09:43:42
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 09:54:10
Here were weights I took using similar methods that Chyros has, minus the scale to get an exact weight, but US coins are pretty crippled anyway in terms of how small of an increment you can use.
These were all bottom out weights. What was the bottom out for Ambers, Chyros?
For almost all but some linears, I noticed bottom out wasn't far off from actuation because after the tactile leaf, the resistance drops pretty sharply. Like, for instance, SKCM Brown without tactile leaves have 50g springs, and I measured the actuation at 47.5.
Bottom out weights:
SKCM Brown - 75g (tactile leaf causes the stiffness)
SKCM Green - same as above
SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g ~ 60g to actuate
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
Salmon - 65g
White - 65g
Blue - 60g this literally actuated at 60 gf when I tested again.
Orange - 55g
Green - 52g
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 09:57:14
Wow, those blues at ~62gf seem quite light. I kind of selfishly wanted you to do the measurement in the exact same conditions and equipment as for ambers, to have results as comparable as possible ;DYes, of course the best comparisons are between measurements conducted under the same conditions. Normally I'm satisfied using that force graph or the Alps catalog, but because there isn't one for amber Alps, and Daniel B's measured 80-100 gf was clearly bull**** (or at least, didn't apply to my switches), I conducted them myself :) . Essentially I wanted to bring to attention that they're slightly heavier than other Alps switches, but nowhere near as ridiculous as their reputation says.
I bet the ambers would have the bump on the left side of that chart. Do we know why the blacks and creams have two bumps instead of one? In programmer terms, is it a (condition-related) bug or a feature of the design? :)
Edit: I guess oranges and whites have the same second bump, but it is not as pronounced, and linears also have what corresponds to a second bump in clickys and tactiles.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:04:12
Post by: ED2914 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:06:46
While the caps might play a factor, I'm a little doubtful of this. In my experience, it's the switch top housings that create binding. Replacing those with fresh top housings restores a smooth feel where off-center presses pose no problems. I used to think Alps had an off-center issue too, but then I realized it was the switches' condition.
Interesting, I just now messed around with AEK alphas and F-Row keycaps on a few different boards in various condition. My quick n' dirty tests seemed line up with what you were saying. When pressing off center, condition played a big role and the key's profile added to the problem.
After I replaced the top housing and the slider of the blue alps with an early white alps, binding problem has gone. As smooth as normal blue alps with a slightly higher pitched sound. It may be the best solution for these blue alps now.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:08:17
SKCM Green - same as above
And this is the same for pine and bamboo?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:13:20
Yeah, I'm not sure why the switches supposedly rated at 70 gf bottomed at 65g. Blues, according to the data card with SKCM Cream, are supposed to have an "operating force" of 70 gf, so I'm not sure if the official material can even be too trusted. They are much lighter than 70 gPretty sure the instruments Alps used are a lot more accurate than the ones Silencium has :p . I mainly just use the graph comparatively :) .
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:18:21
SKCM Green - same as above
And this is the same for pine and bamboo?
I'll make a check on them again. There's something that feels different ish between SKCM Brown and SKCM Green pine, but I've always felt that they were very similar. Bamboos feels very different, but are definitely stiff to a point. When I fiddled around with my NeXT with SKCM Cream, the Creams required less force than the Greens.
The tactile spring causes the stiffness since it's well, pretty damn springy, haha. Its kind of ramp like shape keeps pushing against the slider for most of the travel.
When I measured them, I could sometimes get SKCM Green to bottom at 70g, but it was more reliably bottomed out at 75g.
Pretty sure the instruments Alps used are a lot more accurate than the ones Silencium has :p . I mainly just use the graph comparatively :) .
Derp, yeah. Here I am measuring with coins. Of course Alps would be far more accurate, haha. It is nice to see those force graphs either way though.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:29:52
We don't know if the neon greens in the catalog are pine or bamboo, but it's from 1994, so I guess they'd be bamboo, right?
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:52:36
Thanks for displaying the force-displacement curves for Alps switches. I wish the creators of such graphs would keep color-blind people in mind. I am not really color blind, just color challenged -- I have difficulty seeing the difference between certain colors or correctly identifying some colors against certain background colors. It helps me if color figures can be interpreted correctly when they are rendered in gray scale.
This morning I checked out my Zenith Z-150 black label with linear green Alps. The switches are very smooth but I prefer some tactile feedback. I had also hoped that the steel back on the case would make the Zenith feel more solid to type on than my Leading Edge DC-2014, but it didn't feel more solid to me. In addition, a major disappointment was that there was one dead key on the board -- the C key. I haven't determined the cause as yet. BTW, which "green" Alps are in the Z-150?
Among Alps switches that I have tried thus far, my favorites are still the white Alps in my Northgate Omnikey 101 -- they have an ideal combination of weight, crisp tactility, and subtle clickiness.
On the force-displacement graph, I am having trouble distinguishing the white curve from the cream curve. Do the initial peaks correspond to actuation? Which one has the sharp spike versus smooth curve at the initial peak, and which one has the "aftershock" peaks? The initial peak for blues appears later than that for several of the others -- is this difference significant and does it correspond to different actuation points? If I am interpreting all this correctly, perhaps one reason I like whites better than blues is that I prefer a higher actuation point.
Post by: quasistellar on Wed, 24 August 2016, 10:58:37
My like of Orange is confirmed on that graph: I prefer light switches with tactile bumps high on the stroke, and it seems Orange best represents that. They also have a relatively flat force curve after the initial tactile bump, which I also prefer (I hate ramping force so much e.g. Cherry Clears).
I noticed the 's' key on my m0116 doesn't work--I'll have to dig into that and see what's up. I've been so busy lately I've been neglecting that board--it might end up being my work board I like it so much. I LOVE my modded novatouch, but I just can't get used to having the tenkey on the left side, and I don't think I can easily go back to a full sized board now that I've gotten used to the better position provided by a TKL.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 11:04:07
@Chyros: Regarding precision mass detection, in my analytical chemistry lab course, if we made mistakes, the instructor banished us from the Mettler balances and we had to go back to the twin-pan analytical balances we initially trained on. These relics were actually quite sensitive, and the twin pan made it easy to see that you were actually comparing masses. I recall handling the weights with ivory-tipped forceps. The more advanced twin-pan balances were "Chain-o-Matics" -- you could turn a crank to dial in the last decimal by altering the fraction of a hanging gold chain contributing its mass to the right-hand side of the balance. I also had occasion to use a Cahn microbalance -- capable of a sensitivity of 0.1 microgram.Yes, that's actually the balance I use as well, a Mettler Toledo, the top-of-the-line massively expensive self-calibrating ones they use at GSK :) .
Thanks for displaying the force-displacement curves for Alps switches. I wish the creators of such graphs would keep color-blind people in mind. I am not really color blind, just color challenged -- I have difficulty seeing the difference between certain colors or correctly identifying some colors against certain background colors. It helps me if color figures can be interpreted correctly when they are rendered in gray scale.
This morning I checked out my Zenith Z-150 black label with linear green Alps. The switches are very smooth but I prefer some tactile feedback. I had also hoped that the steel back on the case would make the Zenith feel more solid to type on than my Leading Edge DC-2014, but it didn't feel more solid to me. In addition, a major disappointment was that there was one dead key on the board -- the C key. I haven't determined the cause as yet. BTW, which "green" Alps are in the Z-150?
Among Alps switches that I have tried thus far, my favorites are still the white Alps in my Northgate Omnikey 101 -- they have an ideal combination of weight, crisp tactility, and subtle clickiness.
On the force-displacement graph, I am having trouble distinguishing the white curve from the cream curve. Do the initial peaks correspond to actuation? Which one has the sharp spike versus smooth curve at the initial peak, and which one has the "aftershock" peaks? The initial peak for blues appears later than that for several of the others -- is this difference significant and does it correspond to different actuation points? If I am interpreting all this correctly, perhaps one reason I like whites better than blues is that I prefer a higher actuation point.
The Z-150 has linear green Alps, not tactile neon green Alps.
The first bump is the tactile event, I think the second one is the contact leaf which imparts a small amount of tactility to ALL Alps switches. This is why there is a small tactile bump even on linears and two tactile bumps on tactile and clicky switches.
Some people say the chassis impacts the keyfeel but I haven't noticed any difference there. I have a bunch of white Alps boards in great, similar condition, in a variety of chassis, but they all feel pretty comparable. The age and condition is a much greater factor. The chassis will considerably impact the typing noise though, obviously.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 24 August 2016, 11:12:17
The first bump is the tactile event, I think the second one is the contact leaf which imparts a small amount of tactility to ALL Alps switches. This is why there is a small tactile bump even on linears and two tactile bumps on tactile and clicky switches.
This is quite noticeable on Cream Damped switches (which I assume is what 'Cream' is referring to on the graph?), and it's probably why SKCM Blacks are considered to feel rather rough too.
Out of curiosity, do you notice the tactility from the contact leaf on linearised Blacks?
Post by: PollandAkuma on Wed, 24 August 2016, 11:15:36
Hi ALPS fans, I'm new here. I've been interested in getting an Atreus with either Matias clicky or quiet click, but I'm worried that it'll be heavy, since I hate hate hate scissors switches (62-5g?). But on the other hand, I know ALPS can be lubed and stuff even without desoldering, so thats a plus. Right now I'm deciding between ALPS Atreus or HHKB. What do you think I should go for?Matias switches aren't exactly the same as Alps, but they're related for sure. Neither are known for being particularly light switches tbh xD . I'd advise against lubricating Alps and similar switches as no-one has found a lube that really works well with them yet.Do you use only nickels or smaller coins too? I try to use different combinations of coins to narrow it down to as small a range (1-2 g) as possible. The heavy weigh of the blues you mentioned is really weird, it's much higher than we have on record, are they in good condition?Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?
Well, for blues I tested bare switches, since I don't have them in the board yet. Haven't weighed the coins, but I always use the same set of nickels, and they shouldn't deviate much from 5g as they are specified. I also try to get the stack as straight as possible and as level as possible. I tested some 10 amber switches, and for blues, I took out just random 3 out of the bag.
OMG THOMAS REPLIED
Nice vids man
Thanks for the reply :D I think I might go the (t)horny pathy of HHKB cult
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 11:54:54
Thanks mate :D .Hi ALPS fans, I'm new here. I've been interested in getting an Atreus with either Matias clicky or quiet click, but I'm worried that it'll be heavy, since I hate hate hate scissors switches (62-5g?). But on the other hand, I know ALPS can be lubed and stuff even without desoldering, so thats a plus. Right now I'm deciding between ALPS Atreus or HHKB. What do you think I should go for?Matias switches aren't exactly the same as Alps, but they're related for sure. Neither are known for being particularly light switches tbh xD . I'd advise against lubricating Alps and similar switches as no-one has found a lube that really works well with them yet.Do you use only nickels or smaller coins too? I try to use different combinations of coins to narrow it down to as small a range (1-2 g) as possible. The heavy weigh of the blues you mentioned is really weird, it's much higher than we have on record, are they in good condition?Do you weigh the specific coins you used on a balance? How many switches do you test per board? Also, do you try to gently re-seat coins after you stacked them?
Well, for blues I tested bare switches, since I don't have them in the board yet. Haven't weighed the coins, but I always use the same set of nickels, and they shouldn't deviate much from 5g as they are specified. I also try to get the stack as straight as possible and as level as possible. I tested some 10 amber switches, and for blues, I took out just random 3 out of the bag.
OMG THOMAS REPLIED
Nice vids man
Thanks for the reply :D I think I might go the (t)horny pathy of HHKB cult
You notice it on all Alps switches, but almost unconsciously on linear ones.The first bump is the tactile event, I think the second one is the contact leaf which imparts a small amount of tactility to ALL Alps switches. This is why there is a small tactile bump even on linears and two tactile bumps on tactile and clicky switches.
This is quite noticeable on Cream Damped switches (which I assume is what 'Cream' is referring to on the graph?), and it's probably why SKCM Blacks are considered to feel rather rough too.
Out of curiosity, do you notice the tactility from the contact leaf on linearised Blacks?
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 12:23:55
I think I've found and cured the issue with the non-responsive C key on my Zenith Z-150. Apparently it was a dirty switch. I opened it, cleaned it with 70% isopropanol, dried it, blew it out with canned air for good measure, and reasembled it. Now the switch works.
BTW, removing the switch top was a breeze, thanks to the handy Alps switch tool that I bought from "mrbishop". However, putting the switch back together is much more of a challenge, because the spring falls out if you try reassembly with the switch in the normal position. I had to hold the keyboard at a right angle to the bench and gingerly ease the switch top back on. Any tips about how to reassemble Alps switches would be most welcome!
I''ve also discovered the little chirp in the Z-150 that I've read about. At first, I immediately deactivated it using Esc+Alt, but now I've turned it back on. The novelty may soon wear thin, but for the moment, I enjoy the auditory feedback that is lacking in the green Alps switches. The sound is reminiscent of the chirping control panels on the Enterprise in STNG.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 12:45:00
The Z-150 has linear green Alps, not tactile neon green Alps.
The first bump is the tactile event, I think the second one is the contact leaf which imparts a small amount of tactility to ALL Alps switches. This is why there is a small tactile bump even on linears and two tactile bumps on tactile and clicky switches.
Some people say the chassis impacts the keyfeel but I haven't noticed any difference there. I have a bunch of white Alps boards in great, similar condition, in a variety of chassis, but they all feel pretty comparable. The age and condition is a much greater factor. The chassis will considerably impact the typing noise though, obviously.
That's the interesting bit with tactile brown and green. Since the leaves are so similar to the contact leaf, I guess there isn't that second bump lower down.
I don't think chasis effects feel per se, more so the acoustics. The plate is definitely a significant factor as well as the caps.
I don't think having a heavier case really effects feel in so much as it does just give the board a sense of being sturdy and not moving easily on the desk. Nothing changes when it comes to switch feel.
All of the metal bottom keyboards I've seen also mount their plates onto the top plastic housing. I'm not sure how this effects feel compared to the more typical bottom mounting style. Most top mounted plates have rubber pads stuck o the PCB in the middle to act as standoffs. Maybe there's more flex in these top-mounted boards? I'm not sure.
The reason I think the neon greens feel so stiff is because the tactile bump is all right at the top. The official force curve (ironic that we know so much of such a rare switch) shows it's 70 gf just like the rest so I think it's more the SHAPE of the feeling than the actual weight of it tbh.
We don't know if the neon greens in the catalog are pine or bamboo, but it's from 1994, so I guess they'd be bamboo, right?
Hmm, well the biggest difference between browns/greens and the others is that their tactile springs impart most of the resistance. I know tactile leaves in general do add a bit more resistance to the switch, but it's impossible to lighten the weight on SKCM Green or SKCM Brown, no matter how light of a return spring you've got in there. Browns have a crazy light spring, as mentioned.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 12:51:12
Another complaint on Alps is key cap wobble, when Cherry has pretty much the same amount of wobble itself. :P
Post by: emdude on Wed, 24 August 2016, 13:03:24
I do get kind of annoyed when people say that only Alps has this tactile kind of issue where the contact leaf creates minute tactility. Cherry MX is similar in that the stem has to overcome a small bump in the contact leaf in order to close the contacts, so Cherry isn't really any different there. It shouldn't be anyway.
Another complaint on Alps is key cap wobble, when Cherry has pretty much the same amount of wobble itself. :P
I haven't tried linear MX myself, but that makes intuitive sense. It's strange though, all of the force graphs of MX Black/Red that I can find do not seem to indicate that tactility? Are they just badly done or simplified?
I've found this force graph, looks like the Alps one so it might have been done by the same person?
(http://i40.tinypic.com/1z6yujq.gif)
On a random note, I think it's rather amusing that the force graph of the Brother buckling spring somewhat resembles the green Alps switch.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 13:03:25
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 13:04:59
I do get kind of annoyed when people say that only Alps has this tactile kind of issue where the contact leaf creates minute tactility. Cherry MX is similar in that the stem has to overcome a small bump in the contact leaf in order to close the contacts, so Cherry isn't really any different there. It shouldn't be anyway.Well Cherry force curves show that they don't have a similar dimple:
(http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/media/guide/graph-mx-red.jpg)
However, that's not to say that such a bump is a disadvantage. In fact, I blame the fact that they're so linear for the well-known boring nature of the switch — in truth they are really ghastly dull Oo .
Thanks for the clarification of colors and interpretation of peaks on the Alps force-displacement curves.Have a look through my Alps cleaning tutorial, it shows how I do it:
I think I've found and cured the issue with the non-responsive C key on my Zenith Z-150. Apparently it was a dirty switch. I opened it, cleaned it with 70% isopropanol, dried it, blew it out with canned air for good measure, and reasembled it. Now the switch works.
BTW, removing the switch top was a breeze, thanks to the handy Alps switch tool that I bought from "mrbishop". However, putting the switch back together is much more of a challenge, because the spring falls out if you try reassembly with the switch in the normal position. I had to hold the keyboard at a right angle to the bench and gingerly ease the switch top back on. Any tips about how to reassemble Alps switches would be most welcome!
I''ve also discovered the little chirp in the Z-150 that I've read about. At first, I immediately deactivated it using Esc+Alt, but now I've turned it back on. The novelty may soon wear thin, but for the moment, I enjoy the auditory feedback that is lacking in the green Alps switches. The sound is reminiscent of the chirping control panels on the Enterprise in STNG.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 24 August 2016, 13:05:40
It would be good if someone were to define "wobble" precisely and do quantitative measurements of this property of various switches.
So far, I've only seen wobbling being a complaint when it came to Matias switches. Perhaps it has to do with the construction of the switchplate (single-pronged contact leaf)?
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 13:09:59
With it on, yeah, I don't feel any tactility. Huh.
However, that's not to say that such a bump is a disadvantage. In fact, I blame the fact that they're so linear for the well-known boring nature of the switch — in truth they are really ghastly dull Oo .
Yeah, agreed. Cherry switches are overall a bit more boring than Alps. With all its variety, Alps is just fun to play with. I can see the lack of key cap availability, support, and maybe the reduced travel being the main turn off points for most people though.
Hmm, I've been curious about MX Speed switches for a while though. The travel is reduced to the point of being less than Alps, albeit done in a pretty cheap way, like most of the ways Cherry achieves differences in feel. :P
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 13:43:49
Wobble is another thing that's often misrepresented and over-de-hyped, sadly I suspect I'm part of the cause as it suddenly became a big topic right after I posted my Matrox video in which I showed that Space Invaders have virtually no wobble. Wobble is generally harmless and can actually be beneficial however — the only issue is when the slider wobbles AND the switch has no room for this, in which case you get binding. On designs in which there is room for that, wobble can actually PREVENT binding. Ironically, although Space Invaders have the least wobble of ANY switch I've ever seen, they can bind, even on small keys, with dirty or well-used boards, because the slider and case have so much contact area that any slight nonorthogonal force causes friction unless the switch is in pristine condition.It would be good if someone were to define "wobble" precisely and do quantitative measurements of this property of various switches.
So far, I've only seen wobbling being a complaint when it came to Matias switches. Perhaps it has to do with the construction of the switchplate (single-pronged contact leaf)?
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 14:54:37
As for taking off the top of the switch, i would highly recommend the Plexiglass (Perspex) tool made and sold by "mrbishop". I think the version I have might have been dubbed the "Alps Trident":
[attach=1]
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79766.0;nowap
This thing really works! Push down, pull up, the switch top come off neatly attached to the tool. I think that E3E has made a similar tool, but I do not have that one.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 24 August 2016, 14:56:27
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 15:12:36
Matias Quiet switches do not seem to wobble significantly. However, I have not defined wobble or measured it. I might be misled by the clatter that Matias Click switches make when you brush the tops of the keycaps. Matias Quiet switches do not clatter any more noticeably than any other switches when the keycaps are lightly brushed with a fingertip.
Regarding binding, I have only noticed this with Alps or Matias switches when using keycaps that were not quite designed for the switch -- that is, when the keycap stem was slightly too large for the switch stem. In such situations, my theory is that binding occurs because the switch stem has expanded slightly to accommodate the slightly oversized keycap stem. However, I have no objective measurements to validate or refute this theory.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 August 2016, 15:45:41
@Chyros: Thanks for re-posting your video. It was most helpful for putting the switch back together -- which was the part that was troubling me.Yeah I'd love to give it a go, I've heard good things :) .
As for taking off the top of the switch, i would highly recommend the Plexiglass (Perspex) tool made and sold by "mrbishop". I think the version I have might have been dubbed the "Alps Trident":
(Attachment Link)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79766.0;nowap
This thing really works! Push down, pull up, the switch top come off neatly attached to the tool. I think that E3E has made a similar tool, but I do not have that one.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 24 August 2016, 16:21:02
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 16:31:41
I got in my i-Rocks Fun keyboard today with their blue, clicky switches. I am not sure what I was expecting but they're really weird. The clicking noise is different from both Cherry and Alps switches (although it's closer to Cherry switches) and it's rather annoying. The key feel is pretty decent, though, somewhere in between White and Salmon Alps if I had to try and place it. Very tactile and responsive. Since they are weighted at 45g they're rather light, and I'm hoping to compare them to 'lightened' Blues at some point (once sprit's Alps springs GB comes along). I'll try and throw together a typing demonstration but I don't have a nice camera with me so it'll probably be crappy. Feel free to ask me anything.
is that 45g actuation or bottom? You could take some springs from Alps SKCL Green or Alps SKCM Brown if you want to toy with a lighter weight in the blues.
I actually considered putting SKCL Green springs in all of my SKCM Blue switches for my Orion, but after having a vintage that had a space bar and backspace that got stuck because of worn return springs, I thought it might not be the best idea. 'Course, you can always just mix up the springs on the keys that need more weight to return properly.
Post by: unoab on Wed, 24 August 2016, 17:03:36
It would be good if someone were to define "wobble" precisely and do quantitative measurements of this property of various switches.
So far, I've only seen wobbling being a complaint when it came to Matias switches. Perhaps it has to do with the construction of the switchplate (single-pronged contact leaf)?
When I was assembling my clueboard and deciding if I was going to use matias or orange alps, I did some measurements on the housings and sliders. What I found seemed to be that the dimensions of the housing (channels for the sliders and openings) were about the same, but it was the sliders on the matias switches that were a little bit smaller, so it seems there is a bit more tolerance and play with respect to the sliders than the original alps design. (which made me decide to transplant orange sliders into matias housings, and they do have less wobble than matias ones)
As to quantifying "wobble" I would probably measure it as two measurements, the horizontal and vertical range of motion of a slider from normal when no force is applied to it (it could be measured as cumulative side to side travel 'eg. 0.3mm' or a range to be applied to normal 'eg. ±0.15mm' ). One could probably rig up switches in a plate with two walls (or posts, or anything rigidly fixed to the plate and thus the body of the switch to reference properly) and take measurements while applying lateral force to the slider to move it to its extents to measure this, one measurement in the x and one in the y direction. Then you would have a methodology and measurement for comparison for between different switch types. I have not seen that anyone has done this yet.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 24 August 2016, 17:13:35
is that 45g actuation or bottom? You could take some springs from Alps SKCL Green or Alps SKCM Brown if you want to toy with a lighter weight in the blues.
I stand corrected, the i-Rocks site says they are spec'd at 35 gf to operate/actuate. I am not sure what the bottoming out force is; I will test that at some point or another.
Oh, and just to touch on the build quality of the board itself... it's rather cruddy. The board has lots of flex/play and it's almost entirely made of plastic. The stock keycaps are rather thin and I want to do away with them ASAP. Might
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 24 August 2016, 17:25:19
but the money could be better spent on an Omnikey to swap Blue Alps into
Getting a nice Omnikey is step 1. Work outwards from the core.
Orange Alps is a great easy quick choice for the initial project, and then when and if you find a baggie full of blues (or whatever else you fancy) at some point in the future, transplant again.
Since you will not be bending over any legs, the subsequent soldering projects will be easy and painless (more so if you opt for real old-fashioned nasty lead solder).
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 24 August 2016, 17:31:40
but the money could be better spent on an Omnikey to swap Blue Alps into
Getting a nice Omnikey is step 1. Work outwards from the core.
Orange Alps is a great easy quick choice for the initial project, and then when and if you find a baggie full of blues (or whatever else you fancy) at some point in the future, transplant again.
Since you will not be bending over any legs, the subsequent soldering projects will be easy and painless (more so if you opt for real old-fashioned nasty lead solder).
Finding the Omnikey is the only thing I need to do since I have several baggies of nice Blue Alps (I posted a picture of 'em a while back (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2223222#msg2223222)).
Also, I have a nice Orange Alps board since my AT101W swap is complete. Pictures of that will be coming in once I pick up the bottom row keycaps from storage (aka my parents' basement). EDIT: It'll look a lot like the Pearl/Pebble board you posted here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2244910#msg2244910).
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 24 August 2016, 17:48:58
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 24 August 2016, 17:50:32
I finally managed to try a whole board of MX Browns today, the tactility wasn't as weak as I thought it would be, but they felt rough as late black Alps. It did make me want to try Zealios or MX Clears.
MX Browns are trash buuut *Holds up a shield above his head* Zealios aren't bad...
I just like tactile Alps a lot more.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 17:59:12
Finding the Omnikey is the only thing I need to do since I have several baggies of nice Blue Alps (I posted a picture of 'em a while back (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2223222#msg2223222)).
Also, I have a nice Orange Alps board since my AT101W swap is complete. Pictures of that will be coming in once I pick up the bottom row keycaps from storage (aka my parents' basement). EDIT: It'll look a lot like the Pearl/Pebble board you posted here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2244910#msg2244910).
Love the look of the Dell. Makes me think of some kind of military keyboard with the sandy caps on the black case.
(http://i.imgur.com/laCYs2K.jpg)
Did that with my Orion a while back, but the big bezel on the Dell kind of gives it that look.
Also, if you do ever decide you want to swap new switches into the customized Omnikey, you can always top swap if you don't want to deal with desoldering and soldering in new switches again. Quick and dirty but it works.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 24 August 2016, 18:12:08
Love the look of the Dell. Makes me think of some kind of military keyboard with the sandy caps on the black case.Well if you really love the look of the Dell that much... I'd be happy to trade ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/laCYs2K.jpg)
Did that with my Orion a while back, but the big bezel on the Dell kind of gives it that look.
Also, if you do ever decide you want to swap new switches into the customized Omnikey, you can always top swap if you don't want to deal with desoldering and soldering in new switches again. Quick and dirty but it works.Yeah, I could do that but I probably won't; I don't mind soldering/desoldering since it's a good way for me to unwind. Also, I prefer the way the long, gray switchplates look (which is completely irrational because you can't see them once it's all put together).
EDIT: Plus, if I ever get an Omnikey put together I would rather avoid "quick n' dirty" solutions since it's something I would send on tour.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 18:34:30
Well if you really love the look of the Dell that much... I'd be happy to trade ;)
Noooot that much. :)
Yeah, I could do that but I probably won't; I don't mind soldering/desoldering since it's a good way for me to unwind. Also, I prefer the way the long, gray switchplates look (which is completely irrational because you can't see them once it's all put together).
EDIT: Plus, if I ever get an Omnikey put together I would rather avoid "quick n' dirty" solutions since it's something I would send on tour.
I'd be far too paranoid to ever send my keyboards on a touring trip, mainly out of shipping mishaps than other GHers. Oh yes, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a switch with long switch plates as a base if I was planning on doing several top swaps. I always imagined that they help the feel a bit, perhaps a bit more solid, but who knows. It's probably minuscule at best.
Soldering is pretty chill though, I get you. Hot swapping entire switches is fun though. ;)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 18:47:25
This, once the top housing go its hard to fix.I'd advise against lubricating Alps and similar switches as no-one has found a lube that really works well with them yet.
It's those damn top housings. Once they go, they're incredibly hard to restore. It's better to salvage tops off of good condition common boards than to try and clean and lubricate them; that only goes so far in my experience.
I'm still not sure what causes the wear to the tops in the first place, as I've seen clean switches that still have binding and it all comes from the tops. IMO, the top housings account for a majority of the feel in terms of condition, even beyond the sliders.
My Taobao SKCL Greens have this, and its bad. My Taobao SKCM Blues seemly don't. They restore pretty nicely. Although not as nice as my Packard Bell thats for sure.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 18:50:51
This, once the top housing go its hard to fix.
My Taobao SKCL Greens have this, and its bad. My Taobao SKCM Blues seemly don't. They restore pretty nicely. Although not as nice as my Packard Bell thats for sure.
A kind of ghetto fix would be to use SKCM housings from a common keyboard in good condition on the linears, though that's kind of awkward.
SKCL Yellow boards might not be as highly regarded as SKCL Green ones, but they're also not significantly cheaper, and that'd be the best source of spare SKCL tops so you can fully restore the feel of the SKCL Greens.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 24 August 2016, 18:51:32
As for me, I am still such a novice at soldering that I find it nerve-wracking.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 18:53:04
Yea, I really don't want to do that if I don't have to. Plus with SKCM housings (and yellows?) you lose the long tabs plus a few other differences.This, once the top housing go its hard to fix.
My Taobao SKCL Greens have this, and its bad. My Taobao SKCM Blues seemly don't. They restore pretty nicely. Although not as nice as my Packard Bell thats for sure.
A kind of ghetto fix would be to use SKCM housings from a common keyboard in good condition on the linears, though that's kind of awkward.
SKCL Yellow boards might not be as highly regarded as SKCL Green ones, but they're also not significantly cheaper, and that'd be the best source of spare SKCL tops so you can fully restore the feel of the SKCL Greens.
A little while back someone offered me in this thread a bunch of extra SKCL top housings, it was the guy with the clicky green alps 60%.
Am interested in them :)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 19:03:09
Yea, I really don't want to do that if I don't have to. Plus with SKCM housings (and yellows?) you lose the long tabs plus a few other differences.
You mean the long slits? Yeah, they are a bit different. For SKCL Yellow, the slits aren't exactly shorter, but they seem less wide. SKCMs are shorter though, for sure.
A little while back someone offered me in this thread a bunch of extra SKCL top housings, it was the guy with the clicky green alps 60%.
Am interested in them :)
Yeah, definitely go with that. That's your best bet.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 24 August 2016, 19:13:57
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 24 August 2016, 19:18:12
since it's something I would send on tour.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49604.msg1318608#msg1318608 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49604.msg1318608#msg1318608)
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 19:30:40
Haha thats me. I can send them to you, shoot me a PM. Maybe we can arrange a trade.Yea, I really don't want to do that if I don't have to. Plus with SKCM housings (and yellows?) you lose the long tabs plus a few other differences.This, once the top housing go its hard to fix.
My Taobao SKCL Greens have this, and its bad. My Taobao SKCM Blues seemly don't. They restore pretty nicely. Although not as nice as my Packard Bell thats for sure.
A kind of ghetto fix would be to use SKCM housings from a common keyboard in good condition on the linears, though that's kind of awkward.
SKCL Yellow boards might not be as highly regarded as SKCL Green ones, but they're also not significantly cheaper, and that'd be the best source of spare SKCL tops so you can fully restore the feel of the SKCL Greens.
A little while back someone offered me in this thread a bunch of extra SKCL top housings, it was the guy with the clicky green alps 60%.
Am interested in them :)
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 24 August 2016, 20:00:19
@Chyros: Thanks for re-posting your video. It was most helpful for putting the switch back together -- which was the part that was troubling me.
As for taking off the top of the switch, i would highly recommend the Plexiglass (Perspex) tool made and sold by "mrbishop". I think the version I have might have been dubbed the "Alps Trident":
(Attachment Link)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79766.0;nowap
This thing really works! Push down, pull up, the switch top come off neatly attached to the tool. I think that E3E has made a similar tool, but I do not have that one.
Just wanna second this.
I have an aluminum prototype, and the thing is awesome!
makes it so much faster to take them apart.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 24 August 2016, 21:00:40
So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches. Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 24 August 2016, 21:42:08
After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility. I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.' :rolleyes:
So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches. Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.
Buy an AEK II; they're very plentiful.
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I always felt that the tactile bump itself was quite rounded and not very significant, but it's like the bottoming out amplifies it. Testing an SKCM Brown switch alone with a soft press produces a very rounded feel. The bottoming out really alters it, imo. With a rigid plate, I feel like it's just made more intense.
I think aluminum or something with a bit more give would be better. Maybe even typical steel like the sort used for the plates on the old Alps OEM boards.
It was the same with SKCM Amber too. They felt harsh on the bottom out. SKCM Brown and Amber reminded me of each other quite a bit because of that.
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 24 August 2016, 21:52:00
After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility. I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.' :rolleyes:
So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches. Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.
I use click modded creams, and they are very tactile after the mod, before that there were very underwhelming.
with the mod I can say they are much stiffer than topre, and obviously the click makes it very different as well.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 24 August 2016, 21:53:48
Post by: Moistgun on Wed, 24 August 2016, 21:55:13
The dampened cream switch Wingpad sent me was also a bit underwhelming. It kind of felt like SKCM Black but just slightly less rough and tactile.
I have to say, the click mod made them pretty satisfying to type on, just... different
Its like a heavier to actuate, and quieter Cherry MX green
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 21:56:56
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 24 August 2016, 22:10:28
I'd be far too paranoid to ever send my keyboards on a touring trip, mainly out of shipping mishaps than other GHers. Oh yes, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a switch with long switch plates as a base if I was planning on doing several top swaps. I always imagined that they help the feel a bit, perhaps a bit more solid, but who knows. It's probably minuscule at best.I am willing to try and send the hypothetical board for a tour, I think people could enjoy it if a similar thing made another round. If I build it within the school year I won't have a helluva' lot of time to use it myself anyway, haha.
Soldering is pretty chill though, I get you. Hot swapping entire switches is fun though. ;)
In any case, yeah, hot swapping would be awesome but I dunno' if it would be possible to make an Omnikey hot-swappable... unfortunately. Well anything is possible it's just a matter of would it be practical to make an Omnikey hot-swappable.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49604.msg1318608#msg1318608 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49604.msg1318608#msg1318608)
You all are missing the point. The Omnikey has now been tested to be bird and glass proof. If *that isn't* a sign of how amazing this keyboard is, I don't know what else is. We pretty much had Hoffman shoot a turkey and glass at it like it was an aircraft engine and it survived. Now *that's* keyboard science.
unmodded skcm creams (not dampened cream) are my current favorite switch. overall a great and honestly underrated switch.Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks :( Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?
Post by: emdude on Wed, 24 August 2016, 22:25:37
After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility. I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.' :rolleyes:
So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches. Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.
I use click modded creams, and they are very tactile after the mod, before that there were very underwhelming.
with the mod I can say they are much stiffer than topre, and obviously the click makes it very different as well.
The dampened cream switch Wingpad sent me was also a bit underwhelming. It kind of felt like SKCM Black but just slightly less rough and tactile.
I was curious whether the rough feeling of Cream Damped (and likely Black) switches was due to the design of the tactile leaf, or perhaps the contact leaf, as Chyros suggested; Maybe the contact leaf of short switchplates were just shoddily constructed.
So, initially I linearised a Cream Damped switch and was surprised by how relatively unnoticeable the bump from the contact leaf was. Then, I performed a transplant of a Cream Damped switch (slider, tactile leaf, and top housing) into a switch with a long, grey switchplate; the result was a similar, if not identical, feeling of roughness. This was a pretty unscientific test and it would be nice to have had a force gauge or something to quantify this, but it seems that the tactile leaf was just badly designed.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 24 August 2016, 22:54:36
My SKCM Cream Damped from my old AEKII was not very rough at all, nothing like SKCM Black. A couple of other specimens I have are. I think some of the roughness could be down to condition. My modded SKCM White Damped which I sold off (dampers removed) felt very smooth in fact but hollow compared to lets say SKCM Orange.After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility. I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.' :rolleyes:
So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches. Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.
I use click modded creams, and they are very tactile after the mod, before that there were very underwhelming.
with the mod I can say they are much stiffer than topre, and obviously the click makes it very different as well.The dampened cream switch Wingpad sent me was also a bit underwhelming. It kind of felt like SKCM Black but just slightly less rough and tactile.
I was curious whether the rough feeling of Cream Damped (and likely Black) switches was due to the design of the tactile leaf, or perhaps the contact leaf, as Chyros suggested; Maybe the contact leaf of short switchplates were just shoddily constructed.
So, initially I linearised a Cream Damped switch and was surprised by how relatively unnoticeable the bump from the contact leaf was. Then, I performed a transplant of a Cream Damped switch (slider, tactile leaf, and top housing) into a switch with a long, grey switchplate; the result was a similar, if not identical, feeling of roughness. This was a pretty unscientific test and it would be nice to have had a force gauge or something to quantify this, but it seems that the tactile leaf was just badly designed.
I kinda want to buy another AEKII. Damp Alps definitely isn't my favorite but in a way the shorter softer typing feel was fun. The one I got off ebay was in great condition and was like new when I was done with it.
(http://i.imgur.com/oZk6p0a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FmLzltd.jpg)
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 24 August 2016, 23:34:52
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And the ****ed up F-row.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 25 August 2016, 03:20:02
In any case, yeah, hot swapping would be awesome but I dunno' if it would be possible to make an Omnikey hot-swappable... unfortunately. Well anything is possible it's just a matter of would it be practical to make an Omnikey hot-swappable.
Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it. They are more proper for dual or multilayer PCBs too. Since the pads are on the bottom of the old ones, I'm not sure if the sockets would even make contact without you using some conductive ink to finish the job. They're more meant to chew into the vias of a PCB.
An Omnikey 101 isn't the most difficult board to find, but one that's been swapped to blue Alps is a bit of a different story and it'd definitely be frustrating if anything happened to it, but I'd commend anyone who sends a board on tour. I just couldn't, haha.
unmodded skcm creams (not dampened cream) are my current favorite switch. overall a great and honestly underrated switch.
These are really nice. Out of all the standard tactiles, it's my favorite too. Not sure how I place it against brown and green as they're just different beasts, but the lightness of cream and the tactility is nice. Really reminds me of SKCM Blue, though maybe a tiny bit heavier. Not entirely sure, but it seems so.
I was curious whether the rough feeling of Cream Damped (and likely Black) switches was due to the design of the tactile leaf, or perhaps the contact leaf, as Chyros suggested; Maybe the contact leaf of short switchplates were just shoddily constructed.
I'm not sure. The contact leaves look the same on short contact switch plates, but I used to feel that the fact the plate doesn't extend to the bottom and is instead sitting on two little raised nubs in the bottom housing made them less smooth. Chyros felt like this shouldn't lead to any significant feel differences.
I kind of agree, but I'm still not entirely sure. I'm thinking that full length plates might add a slight bit more of a solid feel (and maybe effect the sound a bit). SKCM Salmon certainly feel a little hollow to me, for instance.
Might have to try testing this by swapping SKCM Blue into SKCM Salmon housings and vise versa to see if there are any noticeable differences and do some blind testing to see if I can pick out the swapped versions from normal ones.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 25 August 2016, 03:34:51
After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility. I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.' :rolleyes:Do the brown Alps housings support the dampened sliders? =o
So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches. Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.
Post by: balotz on Thu, 25 August 2016, 03:36:47
It seems the ZKB-2(R) is more desirable as it has greens - is there much of difference between the green and yellow linears?
[attachimg=1]
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 25 August 2016, 04:03:56
I have to say, the click mod made them pretty satisfying to type on, just... different
Its like a heavier to actuate, and quieter Cherry MX green
I haven't tried MX greens, but that sounds really heavy to me. Sounds interesting.
As for click-modding, I only did that with two switches - SKCM black on an Esc key on a Dell AT101W which I didn't like at all, and SKCM Orange on Power on AEK which was quite nice.
Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it.
Thanks for sharing this. I was mulling doing this with an Omnikey 101, but in the end decided not to, it'd be too nerve-wrecking. This just confirms it :)
Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks :( Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?
Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter? I think creams only come in ones with BAE.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 25 August 2016, 05:29:11
My NeXT board has an ansi enter and SKCM Creams.Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks :( Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?
Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter? I think creams only come in ones with BAE.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 25 August 2016, 05:37:25
Post by: chyros on Thu, 25 August 2016, 05:51:38
Just picked up this Zenith 163-73, in nearly unused condition. It's very pleasant to type on, the yellow alps are very smooth, and the buzzer on each keypress is an interesting substitute for the lack of tactility (I've only used clicky switches before). The PBT caps are also very nice.Awesome find! :D (Nearly) unused is how you want your Alps :D . The biggest difference between green and yellow is the weighting - greens are ca. 50 gf, yellows ca. 60 gf. I don't have a yellow Alps board yet, but from what I can tell off of other linear(ised) Alps, greens are disproportionally appreciated. I'm pretty sure ALL linear Alps will feel great if in great condition.
It seems the ZKB-2(R) is more desirable as it has greens - is there much of difference between the green and yellow linears?
(Attachment Link)
I have to say, the click mod made them pretty satisfying to type on, just... different
Its like a heavier to actuate, and quieter Cherry MX green
I haven't tried MX greens, but that sounds really heavy to me. Sounds interesting.
As for click-modding, I only did that with two switches - SKCM black on an Esc key on a Dell AT101W which I didn't like at all, and SKCM Orange on Power on AEK which was quite nice.Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it.
Thanks for sharing this. I was mulling doing this with an Omnikey 101, but in the end decided not to, it'd be too nerve-wrecking. This just confirms it :)Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks :( Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?
Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter? I think creams only come in ones with BAE.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 25 August 2016, 08:54:50
Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it. They are more proper for dual or multilayer PCBs too. Since the pads are on the bottom of the old ones, I'm not sure if the sockets would even make contact without you using some conductive ink to finish the job. They're more meant to chew into the vias of a PCB.Haha, I figured as much. Good to know that it isn't feasible with an older, single-layer PCB; I wasn't expecting it to be. When I said anything is possible I meant fabbing a new plate/PCB combo that supports hot-swapping.
Do the brown Alps housings support the dampened sliders? =oYeah, there's actually a video of it floating around somewhere. EDIT: Here is the link. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ-vLMMEyGg)
Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter?Yes, they are the same switches. New logo AT101's can come with Bamboo switches but I think all of the old logo ones are Pines.
One of mine came with a reverse-L enter key whilst the other one came with an ANSI enter key. So going in I knew I was getting at least one board with Black Alps... I was just hoping the other would come with Creams. At least I have some nice double-shot NeXT keycaps out of the deal.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:10:02
Eh, I think that boils down to just a single model of AT101 actually, the old-logo '97SK, which is also the one I did the video on. Those pine black Alps are, no contest, nowhere near the same as bamboo ones, they're MUCH better.Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter?Yes, they are the same switches. New logo AT101's can come with Bamboo switches but I think all of the old logo ones are Pines.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:21:41
Eh, I think that boils down to just a single model of AT101 actually, the old-logo '97SK, which is also the one I did the video on. Those pine black Alps are, no contest, nowhere near the same as bamboo ones, they're MUCH better.So old logo AT101s can come with Bamboo Blacks?? I should clarify, what I meant is that all old logo AT101s that come with SKCM Blacks have Pine switches. I know most use SKCM Salmon switches.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 25 August 2016, 09:29:46
Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:
+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.
+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.
I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.
I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.
To add on to this, you could hydro-dip or vinyl wrap as well.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 25 August 2016, 10:36:16
So old logo AT101s can come with Bamboo Blacks?? I should clarify, what I meant is that all old logo AT101s that come with SKCM Blacks have Pine switches. I know most use SKCM Salmon switches.
I wouldn't say the salmons are more common, but probably more well-known as they are sought after for their PBT caps. The AT101 old logos made in the USA are all PBT-capped SKCM Salmon boards.
The old logo AT101s made in Taiwan are SKCM Black with slits (pine). These are easier to find from what I've seen but often still marked up high on eBay.
The only one I don't have enough info on is the earliest of AT101s from the USA which used doubleshot ABS caps. The one I saw was literally in the double digits when it came to serial number. There was a Japanese-made US Layout model with ABS DS that had SKCM pine Black.
That one had no serial number, so it might've been a really early model. No idea.
Figured as much. Good to know that it isn't feasible with an older, single-layer PCB; I wasn't expecting it to be. When I said anything is possible I meant fabbing a new plate/PCB combo that supports hot-swapping.
Reminds me of what Mike was trying to do with his Avant Prime in trying to get a Leeku PCB for it.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:07:21
No, what I mean is that there is only one old-logo AT101 model that doesn't come with salmons, which is the '97SK one, which has pine black Alps. It was the first model Silitek made for Dell when production was moved away from the US and Japan. It appears that the production of the new-logo version was concomitant with a redesign or update that included the newer bamboo model of black Alps. Silitek must have bought millions of these switches from Alps as they kept on making these boards years into simplified Alps territory, I own one from 2001 Oo .Eh, I think that boils down to just a single model of AT101 actually, the old-logo '97SK, which is also the one I did the video on. Those pine black Alps are, no contest, nowhere near the same as bamboo ones, they're MUCH better.So old logo AT101s can come with Bamboo Blacks?? I should clarify, what I meant is that all old logo AT101s that come with SKCM Blacks have Pine switches. I know most use SKCM Salmon switches.
Note that the update/redesign did NOT get accompanied by an FCC ID change. There are new-logo '97SK models out there, which do have bamboo Alps.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 25 August 2016, 11:59:01
Old Logo US-Made AT101 = SKCM Salmon and PBT key caps
and
Old Logo Taiwan-made AT101 = pine SKCM Black and ABS key caps
...makes it easy to remember, aside from those mysterious super early model old logos that are barely seen and not documented in detail at all. I want one.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:01:17
Post by: chyros on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:37:22
That's certainly easier than trying to keep track of particular FCC IDs.Nah, you get used to it. Especially when you've had them all xD .
Post by: emdude on Thu, 25 August 2016, 12:52:15
That's certainly easier than trying to keep track of particular FCC IDs.Nah, you get used to it. Especially when you've had them all xD .
I only really kept in mind one FCC ID (now two I guess) for the old logo AT101s, but I often get things mixed-up and have to double-check the DT wiki or some thread just to be sure.
This is also the case when I'm looking at a keyboard that may have used different switches in its lifetime. Kinda tricky and I don't want to end up with a board that has Mitsumis instead of Alps or whatever.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 25 August 2016, 18:09:49
You can kind of remember the chronological order by inverse number size of the FCC ID. First was 101, then 97, then 95, then 92, then 90. Salmon Alps and PBT caps, pine black Alps and UV-printed caps, bamboo black Alps, windows keys, lasered caps.That's certainly easier than trying to keep track of particular FCC IDs.Nah, you get used to it. Especially when you've had them all xD .
I only really kept in mind one FCC ID (now two I guess) for the old logo AT101s, but I often get things mixed-up and have to double-check the DT wiki or some thread just to be sure.
This is also the case when I'm looking at a keyboard that may have used different switches in its lifetime. Kinda tricky and I don't want to end up with a board that has Mitsumis instead of Alps or whatever.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 27 August 2016, 09:06:15
Thanks for the additional ways to change the color of a keyboard case.Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:
+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.
+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.
I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.
I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.
To add on to this, you could hydro-dip or vinyl wrap as well.
I decided to go with Dupli-color for vinyl in a burgundy red. I've posted the pics in the following threads:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83918.msg2249799#msg2249799
https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/northgate-omnikey-101-skcm-white-alps-t14376-30.html#p326691
And for convenience here:
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 27 August 2016, 09:13:31
Niiice, that looks sick as heck! What'd you use for the bottom row keys?Thanks for the additional ways to change the color of a keyboard case.Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:
+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.
+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.
+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.
I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.
I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.
To add on to this, you could hydro-dip or vinyl wrap as well.
I decided to go with Dupli-color for vinyl in a burgundy red. I've posted the pics in the following threads:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83918.msg2249799#msg2249799
https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/northgate-omnikey-101-skcm-white-alps-t14376-30.html#p326691
And for convenience here:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 27 August 2016, 09:19:15
Post by: E3E on Sat, 27 August 2016, 11:09:49
Does the Omnikey's space bar use cruciform Cherry stabs or traditional Alps? My Focus FK-555 uses Cherry stabs in the plate for the space bar.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 27 August 2016, 11:17:51
Yeah, instead of wasting so many space bars trying to dye them, I would've totally used a Matias bar if I had known they'd work with Alps stabs. The cruciform mount seemed iffy. Hypersphere, does a key cap set come with the stab inserts and wire or do you need to buy those separately? I'd assume for a better business model, they'd separate them. :-XMine uses alps stabs.
Does the Omnikey's space bar use cruciform Cherry stabs or traditional Alps? My Focus FK-555 uses Cherry stabs in the plate for the space bar.
Post by: emdude on Sat, 27 August 2016, 13:34:40
(http://i.imgur.com/NFmrBYL.jpg)
I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 27 August 2016, 14:21:02
Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NFmrBYL.jpg)
I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 27 August 2016, 14:21:14
If I recall correctly, I used the Matias spacebar wire and put the mounting clips that go into the Cherry cruciform mounts with their openings facing toward the back of the keyboard. This orientation and the lack of plungers made it much easier to install the spacebar than was the case with the stock spacebar.
I also slipped a red O-ring (40A-L, 0.2 mm thick) onto the spacebar switch slider. Note that if you use these Cherry mx O-rings on Alps switches, the O-ring has to go onto the switch slider rather than the keycap stem. This prevents the spacebar from bottoming out and lessens the noise somewhat. You might accomplish the same thing by putting slightly thicker shock absorbers under the spacebar inserts -- the material I had was about 1 mm thick, which was too thick. I am looking into thinner materials that could be used for this purpose. In any event, my Matias spacebar does not rattle and it seems about as quiet as the stock spacebar.
Post by: emdude on Sat, 27 August 2016, 14:30:33
Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NFmrBYL.jpg)
I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.
That's interesting, I thought it was the norm. All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 27 August 2016, 14:35:09
Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NFmrBYL.jpg)
I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.
That's interesting, I thought it was the norm. All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.
The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 27 August 2016, 14:37:57
That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .
That's interesting, I thought it was the norm. All of my Alps boards had those, including the AEK.
I'd say that they are the norm for Alps-made key caps. Tai Hao goes either way. I've seen some with molded rods and sliding wire stabs, I've seen some with Cherry cruciform mount stab positions. However, with anything that had caps made by Alps Electric for Alps SKCM/SKCL, the space bars almost always have removable pegs and wire stabs.
The space bar for my IBM P70 had molded rods instead of removable pegs. The Bondwell 8T PRO laptop uses two SKCL Creams for the space bar. Never looked to see if it uses a peg.
@emdude: No, the Matias spacebars do not have mounts for the stabilizing plungers.
If I recall correctly, I used the Matias spacebar wire and put the mounting clips that go into the Cherry cruciform mounts with their openings facing toward the back of the keyboard. This orientation and the lack of plungers made it much easier to install the spacebar than was the case with the stock spacebar.
Do the Matias caps come with stab equipment (wires and inserts) or is that sold separately?
Also, for restoring Alps keyboards, I either use .5mm rubber pads or foam. For my Orion, the pads I took off of a junked FK-2001 worked perfectly. I think they were a bit thicker, but they didn't inhibit the travel at all.
Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.
The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.
Did you ever notice how the NeXT's mod keys are incompatible with typical boards/plates? The stabs are mounted backwards and the holes on the plate are near the upper edge of the cap as opposed to the bottom.
Yeah, the FK-2001 had two pegs as well. The AT101W and Taiwanese old logo AT101 have this as well.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 27 August 2016, 15:05:31
Post by: chyros on Sat, 27 August 2016, 15:23:35
Sorry, I should have been more specific, with two rods and sliding stabilisers and in 7u xD .Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NFmrBYL.jpg)
I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.
That's interesting, I thought it was the norm. All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.
The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 27 August 2016, 17:04:19
Oh, well yea thats a lot less common. As E3E said Focus and some Dell AT101/W's has two rods.Sorry, I should have been more specific, with two rods and sliding stabilisers and in 7u xD .Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NFmrBYL.jpg)
I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.
That's interesting, I thought it was the norm. All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.
The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 27 August 2016, 17:38:38
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
This keyboard was extremely dirty when I received it from eBay, but it cleaned up quite well with no apparent yellowing of the keycaps. Perhaps the dirt acted as a UV shield!
Unfortunately, some dirt may have found its way into the switches, and/or they may be somewhat worn, as they do not feel as light and smooth as those on my first Omnikey 101 (the one that I painted burgundy red). Even so, the switches are good enough that I do not think I will try opening and cleaning them.
Although it is a treat typing on good Alps switches, I still prefer smaller boards in TKL or 60% format. Unfortunately, most genuine Alps boards were made in full-size format, although there were some in intermediate formats, such as XT or 75%. It is possible to get compact Matias-switch keyboards from Matias or KBP, but whereas I like Matias switches, I prefer various flavors of genuine Alps, such as SKCM white, or even better, SKCM blue.
Now that I have addressed -- if not entirely conquered -- my painting anxiety, one of my next goals is to learn desoldering technique as well as refresh and refine my soldering skills. This is mainly to get ready for harvesting blue Alps switches and doing a custom 60% build. I already have the PCB, plate, stabilizers, and keycaps. All that remains is finding a suitable donor board and desoldering the switches. This of course poses a dilemma -- is it better to use an intact blue Alps board or to use it as a donor? Others will have different opinions, but for me, the answer lies in weighing the usability of the potential donor against that of a custom build.
Another solution to my dilemma is to find a source of loose SKCM blue Alps switches in excellent condition. If anyone here is willing to sell at least 60 of these for a reasonable price, please send me a PM!
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 11:27:44
Post by: chyros on Sun, 28 August 2016, 13:37:53
(http://i.imgur.com/tTTS98Q.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1teygcf.jpg)
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 28 August 2016, 13:39:04
Blue Alps from the recycling centre, it is possible! :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/tTTS98Q.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1teygcf.jpg)
Wow, nice find! That looks super clean, too :thumb: How do they feel?
Post by: chyros on Sun, 28 August 2016, 13:40:36
They're in pretty good nick tbh :) . Not as pristine as the Acer obviously, but definitely representative of blue Alps :) .Blue Alps from the recycling centre, it is possible! :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/tTTS98Q.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1teygcf.jpg)
Wow, nice find! That looks super clean, too :thumb: How do they feel?
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 28 August 2016, 13:46:36
They're in pretty good nick tbh :) . Not as pristine as the Acer obviously, but definitely representative of blue Alps :) .Awesome, what kind of board did you find them in? Definitely something with a BAE, haha
EDIT: That bottom row is rather distinctive though, it looks like it only has one set of modifiers (whereas a normal board would have two, ctrl-alt).
Post by: chyros on Sun, 28 August 2016, 13:56:57
Yes, it has a BAE, but the layout is rather bizarre, I' don't think I've ever seen something like it before Oo . Should make a nice review :D .They're in pretty good nick tbh :) . Not as pristine as the Acer obviously, but definitely representative of blue Alps :) .Awesome, what kind of board did you find them in? Definitely something with a BAE, haha
EDIT: That bottom row is rather distinctive though, it looks like it only has one set of modifiers (whereas a normal board would have two, ctrl-alt).
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 14:07:25
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 14:41:32
(http://i.imgur.com/flx9SF6.jpg)
First off, the fit is ridiculously loose. The SGI key caps had fit in the Cream Damped sliders as tightly as one would expect for Alps, but not the 5140 key caps. The fit is so loose that the key caps are easily removable without the help of a key cap puller. The bottom row modifiers are especially bad; they would just slide off if the board was turned upside-down. I had to use that tape trick to fit them properly. If the Cream Damped sliders from the AEK II are a better fit, then I will swap these sliders out for those.
As for feel and sound: As much as I like SKCM Browns, typing on them made my fingers feel like they were ramming into brick walls. With damped sliders though, typing is much more comfortable. Interestingly enough, the board now sounds a lot like an HHKB Type-S (perhaps a bit quieter, and this is based on demonstration videos of the Type-S as well).
Following the discussion on the space bar plungers yesterday, I also decided to tack on a plunger from a 5140 space bar (hope no one needs a 5u space bar!) with some epoxy:
(http://i.imgur.com/S18FDfW.jpg)
The space bar is stabilized much more nicely now and isn't as loud. I still need to get foam or something to dampen the impact of the wire stabilizer inserts though.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 14:56:12
correct me if Im wrong, but those really look like alps caps to me. wondering what switches are in there. The pop up cap is also really interesting.
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:00:23
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-MultiSpeed-EL-PC-16-02-Untested-As-Is/262590869926?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D8372a73b249342d2a198d45755e447fa%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D35%26sd%3D222230897652 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-MultiSpeed-EL-PC-16-02-Untested-As-Is/262590869926?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D8372a73b249342d2a198d45755e447fa%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D35%26sd%3D222230897652)
correct me if Im wrong, but those really look like alps caps to me. wondering what switches are in there. The pop up cap is also really interesting.
The Lock Keys definitely look very Alps-esque. If it goes without bids I might throw one on there just to see what's under those caps.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:03:05
aww, I was gonna buy it :'( lmao if you really want it I wont bid.http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-MultiSpeed-EL-PC-16-02-Untested-As-Is/262590869926?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D8372a73b249342d2a198d45755e447fa%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D35%26sd%3D222230897652 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-MultiSpeed-EL-PC-16-02-Untested-As-Is/262590869926?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D8372a73b249342d2a198d45755e447fa%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D35%26sd%3D222230897652)
correct me if Im wrong, but those really look like alps caps to me. wondering what switches are in there. The pop up cap is also really interesting.
The Lock Keys definitely look very Alps-esque. If it goes without bids I might throw one on there just to see what's under those caps.
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:05:07
aww, I was gonna buy it :'( lmao if you really want it I wont bid.Haha, like I said I would only be interested if it went without bids; I just want to see someone in the keyboard community grab it so we can learn about it. In other words, if you're planning on bidding on it that would be enough for me.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:07:22
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:15:32
@emdude: I agree with your assessment of SKCM brown Alps. Based on trying these switches in an IBM 5140 and a Magnavox Videowriter 250, I had thought that these swtiches would be delightfully tactile and perfect for a custom 60% board. However, when I received the custom board, I was quite surprised at how heavy the swtiches felt. It is fun to type on, but it gets fatiguing after a while.
When I tested the brown Alps in the IBM and Videowriter, the keyboards were not actively connected to a working computer. I find that I do not get the full impression of a keyboard unless I can see the letters on the screen and test my speed and accuracy along with the feel and sound of the keys. Isolated switch testers are even worse -- almost completely useless for me.
I admire your skill in grafting the spacebar post. I expect if I tried this it would not end up standing vertically. I am also not a fan of these stabilizer posts. I can usually get by with just the stabilizer wire and the center switch with a red O-ring on the switch.
Actually, I am not a fan of stabilizers, period. Somewhere on my long to-do list is to make a custom build of a 60% with no stabilized keys at all, including the spacebar. The HHKB Pro 2 is almost there with only three stabilized keys: Enter, Left Shift, and Spacebar. I almost never use the Left Shift, and for either shift key, all I need is 1.25x. Same with Enter -- 1.25x would be ample. For the Spacebar, I have never tried the maximum size for an unstabilzed key, which I think is 1.75x, but this might be pushing it. I would probably need two of these -- one under each thumb.
At the moment, I am working on cleaning up and converting to USB a non-ADB US ANSI NeXT keyboard with SKCM tactile cream Alps. It is in good shape with only a single spot of corrosion on the plate near the Control key. The switches are smooth and nicely tactile, and the keycaps are thick doubleshots. Overall, the keyboard has a very solid sound and feel.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:23:15
@Chyros: Do you have some sort of keyboard superpower that guides you to these incredible finds? It isn't fair to us mere mortals.
It's called having a damn good recycling center near by as well as good finds from his uni, haha. I get jealous too, Chyros! :P
Yes, it has a BAE, but the layout is rather bizarre, I' don't think I've ever seen something like it before Oo . Should make a nice review :D .
Another caseless keyboard review? Haha. It would nice to see what markings you find on it that might give hints to what it could be. I've never seen an "enhanced keyboard" layout with just two bottom row modifiers.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 15:46:24
@emdude: I agree with your assessment of SKCM brown Alps. Based on trying these switches in an IBM 5140 and a Magnavox Videowriter 250, I had thought that these swtiches would be delightfully tactile and perfect for a custom 60% board. However, when I received the custom board, I was quite surprised at how heavy the swtiches felt. It is fun to type on, but it gets fatiguing after a while.
When I tested the brown Alps in the IBM and Videowriter, the keyboards were not actively connected to a working computer. I find that I do not get the full impression of a keyboard unless I can see the letters on the screen and test my speed and accuracy along with the feel and sound of the keys. Isolated switch testers are even worse -- almost completely useless for me.
Typing on my SKCM Brown board is definitely more comfortable now because of the damped sliders. The stiffness doesn't bother me as much either now.
And I agree that single switches or switch testers are pretty bad ways of evaluating a switch, especially when it comes to Alps, where sound is particularly important. Just in general, the best way to get a feel of a switch is to use an actual keyboard with them for an extended period of time.
I admire your skill in grafting the spacebar post. I expect if I tried this it would not end up standing vertically. I am also not a fan of these stabilizer posts. I can usually get by with just the stabilizer wire and the center switch with a red O-ring on the switch.
Actually, I am not a fan of stabilizers, period. Somewhere on my long to-do list is to make a custom build of a 60% with no stabilized keys at all, including the spacebar. The HHKB Pro 2 is almost there with only three stabilized keys: Enter, Left Shift, and Spacebar. I almost never use the Left Shift, and for either shift key, all I need is 1.25x. Same with Enter -- 1.25x would be ample. For the Spacebar, I have never tried the maximum size for an unstabilzed key, which I think is 1.75x, but this might be pushing it. I would probably need two of these -- one under each thumb.
The epoxy I used was the 'instant setting' kind, so it helps if you allow the epoxy to sit for about 30-40 seconds after mixing to allow it to harden a bit before applying it to the base of the plunger and sticking it onto the space bar. Positioning the plunger is extremely important if you want smooth action though.
I don't mind Alps stabs, they work just fine in my opinion, except for the space bar... Anything larger than 1.75 should be stabilized though, but less than that, you wouldn't notice I think.. My keyboard's split right shift is stabilized actually, I can't really tell the difference between that and an unstabilized Caps Lock.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 16:08:25
The caps lock and bigass right bracket key look very zenithy to me
I have a pretty good feeling this is Alps.
Here's a listing for another NEC Multispeed laptop, different model but the keyboard looks nearly identical: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-Multispeed-HD-Laptop-Vintage-RARE-/111740313363
If you look closely at one of the photos, you can see the Alps-style stab wires. Also the + and - keys for both PCs look very Tai-Haoish.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 28 August 2016, 16:19:20
I have a KBP V60 with Matias Quiet switches. They are indeed quiet, but I bottom out all my keystrokes, and I find bottoming out against a rubber bumper is more fatiguing than bottoming out with undamped Matias Click switches.
For me, Matias Clicks and Matias Quiets are the "Alps of convenience" -- a quick and convenient way to have a 60% or TKL Alps-type board without having to harvest genuine Alps and build a board with one of these form factors yourself.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 16:30:00
If they aren't as rough as SKCM Cream Damped or Blacks then I'd probably enjoy them.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 28 August 2016, 16:32:03
Honestly just go out and look around everywhere, and don't accept no for an answer. You'd be surprised! ;)@Chyros: Do you have some sort of keyboard superpower that guides you to these incredible finds? It isn't fair to us mere mortals.
It's called having a damn good recycling center near by as well as good finds from his uni, haha. I get jealous too, Chyros! :P
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 28 August 2016, 16:54:02
No, I haven't, though I'd like to try those and Matias Clicks at some point. I'm pretty curious about their tactility, is there a force graph for those switches anywhere?The only force-displacement curve for a Matias switch of which I am aware was made by Jacobolus using a gauge made by HaaTa. It may be found in the second post in the following tread:
If they aren't as rough as SKCM Cream Damped or Blacks then I'd probably enjoy them.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54183.0
He cautions that this represents one time with one switch.
I enjoy using my V60MTS-C and V60MTS-Q boards. They are certainly far better than any Cherry mx or clone, but they lack the refinement of a good SKCM white or blue board whose switches are in good to excellent condition.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 16:57:57
No, I haven't, though I'd like to try those and Matias Clicks at some point. I'm pretty curious about their tactility, is there a force graph for those switches anywhere?The only force-displacement curve for a Matias switch of which I am aware was made by Jacobolus using a gauge made by HaaTa. It may be found in the second post in the following tread:
If they aren't as rough as SKCM Cream Damped or Blacks then I'd probably enjoy them.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54183.0
He cautions that this represents one time with one switch.
I enjoy using my V60MTS-C and V60MTS-Q boards. They are certainly far better than any Cherry mx or clone, but they lack the refinement of a good SKCM white or blue board whose switches are in good to excellent condition.
Thanks for the link; that force curve doesn't look that bad actually.
Post by: unoab on Sun, 28 August 2016, 22:11:24
The caps lock and bigass right bracket key look very zenithy to me
I have a pretty good feeling this is Alps.
Here's a listing for another NEC Multispeed laptop, different model but the keyboard looks nearly identical: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-Multispeed-HD-Laptop-Vintage-RARE-/111740313363
If you look closely at one of the photos, you can see the Alps-style stab wires. Also the + and - keys for both PCs look very Tai-Haoish.
this guys says white alps in his video, but they don't sound very clicky when he is typing (maybe they are creams or an alps clone with a white slider that is tactile):
https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s (https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s)
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 22:16:27
The caps lock and bigass right bracket key look very zenithy to me
I have a pretty good feeling this is Alps.
Here's a listing for another NEC Multispeed laptop, different model but the keyboard looks nearly identical: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-Multispeed-HD-Laptop-Vintage-RARE-/111740313363
If you look closely at one of the photos, you can see the Alps-style stab wires. Also the + and - keys for both PCs look very Tai-Haoish.
this guys says white alps in his video, but they don't sound very clicky when he is typing (maybe they are creams or an alps clone with a white slider that is tactile):
https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s (https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s)
They sound like tactile Alps, so probably Creams or clones then.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 28 August 2016, 22:20:15
Post by: chyros on Sun, 28 August 2016, 23:10:49
I can guarantee those are not white Alps. They don't even sound like very tactile Alps, more like linear Alps, though maybe the recording isn't very good. Could even be dampened ones.The caps lock and bigass right bracket key look very zenithy to me
I have a pretty good feeling this is Alps.
Here's a listing for another NEC Multispeed laptop, different model but the keyboard looks nearly identical: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-Multispeed-HD-Laptop-Vintage-RARE-/111740313363
If you look closely at one of the photos, you can see the Alps-style stab wires. Also the + and - keys for both PCs look very Tai-Haoish.
this guys says white alps in his video, but they don't sound very clicky when he is typing (maybe they are creams or an alps clone with a white slider that is tactile):
https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s (https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s)
They sound like tactile Alps, so probably Creams or clones then.
Post by: emdude on Sun, 28 August 2016, 23:16:59
I can guarantee those are not white Alps. They don't even sound like very tactile Alps, more like linear Alps, though maybe the recording isn't very good. Could even be dampened ones.The caps lock and bigass right bracket key look very zenithy to me
I have a pretty good feeling this is Alps.
Here's a listing for another NEC Multispeed laptop, different model but the keyboard looks nearly identical: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-Multispeed-HD-Laptop-Vintage-RARE-/111740313363
If you look closely at one of the photos, you can see the Alps-style stab wires. Also the + and - keys for both PCs look very Tai-Haoish.
this guys says white alps in his video, but they don't sound very clicky when he is typing (maybe they are creams or an alps clone with a white slider that is tactile):
https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s (https://youtu.be/1jh3N0c3M-g?t=5m23s)
They sound like tactile Alps, so probably Creams or clones then.
Oh that's true, SKCM Creams were what immediately came to mind when the person mentioned 'white Alps', but you might be right actually, after rewatching the video. In that case, it might be SKCL Creams then; that would be pretty neat.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 28 August 2016, 23:44:08
Post by: E3E on Sun, 28 August 2016, 23:58:18
Oh that's true, SKCM Creams were what immediately came to mind when the person mentioned 'white Alps', but you might be right actually, after rewatching the video. In that case, it might be SKCL Creams then; that would be pretty neat.
Yeah, I agree. They definitely sound more like a linear switch. If it's SKCL Cream, then that's cool.
Though, honestly, it'd be a little questionable if he thought these switches were white colored, especially compared to Alps SKCM White switches themselves.
(http://i.imgur.com/t44YJsn.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 29 August 2016, 06:02:21
Post by: emdude on Mon, 29 August 2016, 10:31:26
A bit off topic, but I asked a recent seller on eBay to confirm and IBM 7690s do indeed use SKCM Browns. If anyone finds one by chance, the switches are likely to be in good condition since the keyboard has a build in plastic cover for hospital use.
I remember that short-lived auction. IIRC, only a couple hundred were produced in a test run (many of which were never fully assembled either), and they ultimately did not hit the market for whatever reason. The keyboards are identical to those in the 5140 except for their housings.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 29 August 2016, 18:25:25
(http://vintagecomputer.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/IBM-7690-external-open-profile.jpg)
Post by: emdude on Mon, 29 August 2016, 18:36:47
Post by: E3E on Mon, 29 August 2016, 18:58:47
A bit off topic, but I asked a recent seller on eBay to confirm and IBM 7690s do indeed use SKCM Browns. If anyone finds one by chance, the switches are likely to be in good condition since the keyboard has a build in plastic cover for hospital use.
I remember that short-lived auction. IIRC, only a couple hundred were produced in a test run (many of which were never fully assembled either), and they ultimately did not hit the market for whatever reason. The keyboards are identical to those in the 5140 except for their housings.
Essentially the same thing, yeah, just repurposed. It'd be interesting to have one, but it's beyond my interests to own one. It's more than what I'd really care for since it's a whole system. Super cool, but there's not much I could do with it, and salvaging the keyboard's switches would be sacrilege.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 29 August 2016, 19:26:05
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 29 August 2016, 23:57:44
One of the rare occasions I would say the newer versions are superior. You can even still mod the Matias to make them clicky or linear like you would the originals, or remove the dampeners. Sound still isn't as good.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 30 August 2016, 00:46:07
my opinion: Matias Quiet Click > SKCM Ivory/SKCM Black
One of the rare occasions I would say the newer versions are superior. You can even still mod the Matias to make them clicky or linear like you would the originals, or remove the dampeners. Sound still isn't as good.
Have you tried the NeXT keyboards? SKCM Ivory isn't a dampened switch and neither is Black. A little hard to directly compare them like that. SKCM Ivory/Cream is like the best tactile Alps switch imo along with SKCM Orange outside of SKCM Green and Brown.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 30 August 2016, 01:16:46
SKCM Ivory are dampened? I thought Ivory was another name for SKCM Cream I must've gotten my names confused.my opinion: Matias Quiet Click > SKCM Ivory/SKCM Black
One of the rare occasions I would say the newer versions are superior. You can even still mod the Matias to make them clicky or linear like you would the originals, or remove the dampeners. Sound still isn't as good.
Have you tried the NeXT keyboards? SKCM Ivory isn't a dampened switch and neither is Black. A little hard to directly compare them like that. SKCM Ivory/Cream is like the best tactile Alps switch imo along with SKCM Orange outside of SKCM Green and Brown.
I undampened my Matias QC sans a few switches so it's a fairer comparison, the Matias tactility is not as rough feeling as the late Blacks which feel like there are two bumps. The dampened creams also had this feel but not as much.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 30 August 2016, 01:26:01
SKCM Ivory are dampened? I thought Ivory was another name for SKCM Cream I must've gotten my names confused.
I undampened my Matias QC sans a few switches so it's a fairer comparison, the Matias tactility is not as rough feeling as the late Blacks which feel like there are two bumps. The dampened creams also had this feel but not as much.
SKCM Cream Damped is the dampened one, but SKCM Ivory/Cream is the undampened variety found in NeXT keyboards (earlier version found in some Canon AP500-II typewriters). Yeah, I can see them being better then the SKCM Blacks. But were those bamboo or pine? I have not tried pine blacks, but I hear that they are actually rather nice.
There's a bit of a schism on the name of SKCM Cream, where some prefer Ivory (it was listed as Ivory by Alps). Admittedly, Ivory makes it less confusing when talking about the undampened switch. Are these what you had though?
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 30 August 2016, 02:03:26
I had the cream dampened.SKCM Ivory are dampened? I thought Ivory was another name for SKCM Cream I must've gotten my names confused.
I undampened my Matias QC sans a few switches so it's a fairer comparison, the Matias tactility is not as rough feeling as the late Blacks which feel like there are two bumps. The dampened creams also had this feel but not as much.
SKCM Cream Damped is the dampened one, but SKCM Ivory/Cream is the undampened variety found in NeXT keyboards (earlier version found in some Canon AP500-II typewriters). Yeah, I can see them being better then the SKCM Blacks. But were those bamboo or pine? I have not tried pine blacks, but I hear that they are actually rather nice.
There's a bit of a schism on the name of SKCM Cream, where some prefer Ivory (it was listed as Ivory by Alps). Admittedly, Ivory makes it less confusing when talking about the undampened switch. Are these what you had though?
Post by: E3E on Tue, 30 August 2016, 02:05:22
I had the cream dampened.
Gotcha. That all makes sense. Yeah the undamped SKCM Creams are really nice. Mike's favorite and MattR and I both think fondly of them. Definitely a favorite of mine.
Post by: emdude on Tue, 30 August 2016, 02:11:02
my opinion: Matias Quiet Click > SKCM Ivory/SKCM Black
One of the rare occasions I would say the newer versions are superior. You can even still mod the Matias to make them clicky or linear like you would the originals, or remove the dampeners. Sound still isn't as good.
I haven't tried SKCM Blacks, but I definitely think SKCM Cream Damped switches are one of the worst SKCM switches. Not sure what possessed Alps to toss out the tactile leaves in Oranges and Salmons for the ones in those.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 30 August 2016, 04:12:25
Tbh I think "Ivory" makes most sense for the undampened switch even though the catalog listed it for the dampened one. The slider colour on the undampened switch is much lighter than the dampened one though, so ivory for one and cream for the other makes sense to me. Alps colours are... quite something, anyway xD .SKCM Ivory are dampened? I thought Ivory was another name for SKCM Cream I must've gotten my names confused.
I undampened my Matias QC sans a few switches so it's a fairer comparison, the Matias tactility is not as rough feeling as the late Blacks which feel like there are two bumps. The dampened creams also had this feel but not as much.
SKCM Cream Damped is the dampened one, but SKCM Ivory/Cream is the undampened variety found in NeXT keyboards (earlier version found in some Canon AP500-II typewriters). Yeah, I can see them being better then the SKCM Blacks. But were those bamboo or pine? I have not tried pine blacks, but I hear that they are actually rather nice.
There's a bit of a schism on the name of SKCM Cream, where some prefer Ivory (it was listed as Ivory by Alps). Admittedly, Ivory makes it less confusing when talking about the undampened switch. Are these what you had though?
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 05:13:45
Post by: chyros on Tue, 30 August 2016, 06:11:53
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 06:51:08
Since she knows nothing about these switches, except that a unicorn threw them up at our doorstep recently, she should be fairly objective (as far as subjective tests go). Winner of the looks department was blue, with green coming in second, followed by amber and white. As for the feel when a single switch was pressed between fingers - blue comes on top as well. Amber is second, then white. She was absolutely disgusted with green, and I don't blame her, because that particular switch was scratchy as hell, and I guess it felt relatively hollow after those clicky switches.
So there you have it folks. The most nonscientifical way of proving that all the hype around SKCM blues is well and truly deserved. Case closed :)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 30 August 2016, 07:08:41
I just did an interesting test. I gave my girlfriend four switches to play with and see what she thought of them. They were SKCM blue (just cleaned), SKCM white (just cleaned), SKCM amber (great condition) and SKCL green (really dirty). Unfortunately, I had no SKCM Orange laying around and I couldn't be bothered to desolder one.Eh, well, most people I show keyboards to can't tell any differences apart from sound between MX blue, white Alps and buckling springs :p . Still, I'll take it as a compliment for blue and amber Alps :p .
Since she knows nothing about these switches, except that a unicorn threw them up at our doorstep recently, she should be fairly objective (as far as subjective tests go). Winner of the looks department was blue, with green coming in second, followed by amber and white. As for the feel when a single switch was pressed between fingers - blue comes on top as well. Amber is second, then white. She was absolutely disgusted with green, and I don't blame her, because that particular switch was scratchy as hell, and I guess it felt relatively hollow after those clicky switches.
So there you have it folks. The most nonscientifical way of proving that all the hype around SKCM blues is well and truly deserved. Case closed :)
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 30 August 2016, 07:57:15
According to the DT wiki on the Alps SKCL and SKCM series of keyboard switches, it is the damped version of the cream switch that was dubbed "ivory", and it is described as lighter in color than the undamped version.
What about the nomenclature for sound suppression in switches? I've seen both, "damp" and "dampen" as the verb and "damped" and "dampened" as the past tense, past participle, or adjective. However, I think that "damp" and "damped" might be regarded as the more correct forms.
Whatever we call them, I like the switches in my non-ADB US ANSI NeXT keyboard! I'll post more details on it after I have had a chance to convert it to USB so that I can do proper typing tests.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 30 August 2016, 08:03:26
I'm in the process of converting a non-ADB US ANSI NeXT keyboard to USB. It has the undamped cream Alps.
According to the DT wiki on the Alps SKCL and SKCM series of keyboard switches, it is the damped version of the cream switch that was dubbed "ivory", and it is described as lighter in color than the undamped version.
What about the nomenclature for sound suppression in switches? I've seen both, "damp" and "dampen" as the verb and "damped" and "dampened" as the past tense, past participle, or adjective. However, I think that "damp" and "damped" might be regarded as the more correct forms.
Whatever we call them, I like the switches in my non-ADB US ANSI NeXT keyboard! I'll post more details on it after I have had a chance to convert it to USB so that I can do proper typing tests.
I am planning on doing the same in the coming days, looking forward to comparing them to oranges.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 30 August 2016, 12:48:16
I'm in the process of converting a non-ADB US ANSI NeXT keyboard to USB. It has the undamped cream Alps.
According to the DT wiki on the Alps SKCL and SKCM series of keyboard switches, it is the damped version of the cream switch that was dubbed "ivory", and it is described as lighter in color than the undamped version.
What about the nomenclature for sound suppression in switches? I've seen both, "damp" and "dampen" as the verb and "damped" and "dampened" as the past tense, past participle, or adjective. However, I think that "damp" and "damped" might be regarded as the more correct forms.
Whatever we call them, I like the switches in my non-ADB US ANSI NeXT keyboard! I'll post more details on it after I have had a chance to convert it to USB so that I can do proper typing tests.
That's weird, because the undampened version is much lighter than the damped cream switches. The ones I have have a slight yellow tinge to them while the ones in the NeXT are almost an off-white color.
Did anyone else beside jacobulous try cream switches from both Canon typewriters and NeXT boards? He mentioned that there is a noticeable difference between the two. I think it's probably the switch condition though, as there is a noticeable difference between orange switches in my two apple boards for instance, but it makes me wonder.
From what I can gather, he said that they're just a bit stiffer, but that might be my memory oversimplifying things. Either way, I'm on the hunt for one of those typewriters. They don't seem to pop up on eBay very often. I bet they're more of a thrift shop find unless they're really just that rare. The Sharp PA-1000 typewriters are kind of sporadic on eBay too.
Also, my vote for prettiest switch is pine SKCM Green. :P Then Blue, then Orange, then I don't even know. It kind of evens out beyond that point for me. I don't like the color of bamboo SKCM Green very much. :(
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 30 August 2016, 13:30:27
The DT wiki on the Alps SKCL/SKCM series has a note about the color of the sliders in the cream damped (aka ivory) switch: "the exact shade appears to vary and can even be white."
The overall picture across the spectrum of Alps is further confused by the apparent existence of the Alps SKCM white damped switch, which as depicted in the DT Wiki is a brilliant white color.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 30 August 2016, 13:36:31
@E3E: I just checked the sliders in my non-ADB NeXT keyboard, and they definitely appear yellowish-white to me, and they certainly feel undamped and tactile. I don't have a damped cream Alps board handy, but the sliders in my Omnikey 101 with SKCM white Alps look pale white -- almost like translucent "Tupperware" polypropylene "white".Yes, in fact the white of my SKCM white damped switches looks like a fuller white than the white of SKCM white. It varies per switch though.
The DT wiki on the Alps SKCL/SKCM series has a note about the color of the sliders in the cream damped (aka ivory) switch: "the exact shade appears to vary and can even be white."
The overall picture across the spectrum of Alps is further confused by the apparent existence of the Alps SKCM white damped switch, which as depicted in the DT Wiki is a brilliant white color.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:17:46
@E3E: I just checked the sliders in my non-ADB NeXT keyboard, and they definitely appear yellowish-white to me, and they certainly feel undamped and tactile. I don't have a damped cream Alps board handy, but the sliders in my Omnikey 101 with SKCM white Alps look pale white -- almost like translucent "Tupperware" polypropylene "white".
The DT wiki on the Alps SKCL/SKCM series has a note about the color of the sliders in the cream damped (aka ivory) switch: "the exact shade appears to vary and can even be white."
The overall picture across the spectrum of Alps is further confused by the apparent existence of the Alps SKCM white damped switch, which as depicted in the DT Wiki is a brilliant white color.
It's definitely confusing. I think the SKCM Cream sliders are more full in color while the Damped Cream are more translucent. *ahem* Oh, you did mention damped white. Yeah SKCM White has a translucent kind of color. I've never actually seen Damped White though.
(http://i.imgur.com/sewkV4L.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VX7abek.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nszwuvE.jpg)
Here's some comparisons. The dampened ones are from an AEK II. I don't have any other boards with damped cream, so I can't really compare variance there.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:21:23
Post by: E3E on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:24:26
I won the mystery nec laptop. 31$ shipped
Looking forward to seeing what's in it.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:27:06
If its not genuine alps Ill probably send it backI won the mystery nec laptop. 31$ shipped
Looking forward to seeing what's in it.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:27:27
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:30:42
Post by: emdude on Tue, 30 August 2016, 15:32:55
I also wonder if the newer plastic they used precluded the use of pigments, hence the rather bland colors (or lack thereof) of later Alps switches. I recall Matias intending for his QC sliders to be orange, but was unable to realize this because of how the pigment reacted with the plastic. This is assuming he uses the same plastic as Alps did, though.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 30 August 2016, 17:07:50
I imagine the translucency of the later switches is a property of the slippery plastic that Alps switched to with SKCM White, Cream Damped, etc.No, it's more like the opposite. In fact, I suspect this might be a reason for the colour change in some switches. For example, orange to salmon, and neon green pine to neon green bamboo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the different plastic is more opaque and makes colours appear less intense. It's not even unthinkable both are actually the same pigment, just in a different plastic.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 30 August 2016, 17:28:18
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 30 August 2016, 18:49:58
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 30 August 2016, 19:02:55
The color variation of blue Alps depends upon how much hair and how many dust mites each switch has ingested. :)
This is what the NOS blues look like from that obscure 1987 keyboard of mine. Too bad I can't get it to work and my eyes suck at colors :|
(http://i.imgur.com/EGfDGmw.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 30 August 2016, 20:06:29
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 21:39:54
The worst thing about having a rare and obscure switch as your favorite.
To be fair I cringe just as hard when someone trashes a perfectly working 5140 for just the board as you probably did at this image. '
They will be getting a nice new home, its a surprise :D :p
Post by: romevi on Tue, 30 August 2016, 22:31:16
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zdaNR7f.jpg)
The worst thing about having a rare and obscure switch as your favorite.
To be fair I cringe just as hard when someone trashes a perfectly working 5140 for just the board as you probably did at this image. '
They will be getting a nice new home, its a surprise :D
Is that this one?
Apple Extended Keyboard II in 1990 & NeXT Black in 1986
(Attachment Link)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:45:18
:eek:
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:45:53
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qlgWxl3.jpg)
:eek:
Are those what I think they are?? (Clean SKCM Greens??)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:53:48
Also, found all of these:
5140 keyboard w/ no caps
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252519136112
Magnavox Videowriter Keyboard w/ SKCM Brown
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252519139760
TI boards with SKCL Yellow and Green
http://www.ebay.com/itm/302049224656
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272348723723
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:56:55
Also, found all of these:It looks like Hypersphere put those up. I hope you guys don't mind but I just BIN'd that IBM 5140 Keyboard. I'm very excited :D
5140 keyboard w/ no caps
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252519136112
Now I don't have to feel guilty about killing a 5140 for switches, haha.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 31 August 2016, 00:02:42
Fill that board in with some Matias or SKCM black or something, so it's at least not just a skeleton.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zdaNR7f.jpg)
The worst thing about having a rare and obscure switch as your favorite.
To be fair I cringe just as hard when someone trashes a perfectly working 5140 for just the board as you probably did at this image. '
They will be getting a nice new home, its a surprise :D :p
Post by: emdude on Wed, 31 August 2016, 00:04:11
Also, found all of these:It looks like Hypersphere put those up. I hope you guys don't mind but I just BIN'd that IBM 5140 Keyboard. I'm very excited :D
5140 keyboard w/ no caps
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252519136112
Now I don't have to feel guilty about killing a 5140 for switches, haha.
Very nice, hopefully it cleans up well.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 31 August 2016, 00:05:51
Are those what I think they are?? (Clean SKCM Greens??)
Ooh, where did you get those from?
Close; they're pine SKCM Green from the Xerox 6085 I just bought a few weeks back. I didn't desolder the board because I still find it terrible to do that to those boards. What I did instead was put the internals into some mint SKCM Salmon housings. Something I've thought about for a long time since I had the DocuTechs, but haven't done until now.
Testing them out in the hot swappable FMJ which currently has SKCM Brown. It's a direct comparison for two switches that are quite similar!
(http://i.imgur.com/bY6xIhr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/r83nnxe.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kyVraiF.jpg)
What I'm feeling is that SKCM Brown have a clunkier feeling while SKCM Greens are more airy and don't feel as clumsy. I swear I measured them at being the same weight wise, but they definitely feel different. Both switches are in good quality housings and the clunkiness I feel isn't binding. It's more like stiffness.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 31 August 2016, 00:15:52
It looks like Hypersphere put those up. I hope you guys don't mind but I just BIN'd that IBM 5140 Keyboard. I'm very excited :D
Now I don't have to feel guilty about killing a 5140 for switches, haha.
That was quick :)
Just got mine for a bit more but with keycaps, and can't wait for it to arrive.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 00:17:44
That was quick :)
Just got mine for a bit more but with keycaps, and can't wait for it to arrive.
I have been wanting some of these for a while so did not hesitate at the chance to grab 'em. Impulse purchases are the only kind of purchases I know, haha.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 31 August 2016, 01:16:02
(http://i.imgur.com/SBtqKmT.jpg)
Might pop the SKCM Greens in the Orion. :thumb: They sound really good in its case.
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 31 August 2016, 06:14:42
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 31 August 2016, 11:53:16
@E3E and/or XMIT: Especially in light of the ongoing GB for Alps springs,
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55888.msg2252288#msg2252288
do you have recommendations on which type(s) of Alps, if any, could be converted closer to the sound and feel of SKCM blue Alps? I know there are various ways to mod Alps switches, including clipping tabs on a tactile leaf to convert it to a clicky switch, and swapping various components, including sliders and/or springs. Which mods can be done "in situ" without desoldering switches?
There are numerous posts on how to transform various Cherry mx switches to have new stated characteristics, but I have not seen something like this for Alps switches.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 31 August 2016, 12:45:18
@E3E: Hot-swapping switches does not sound trivial at all. Did you custom-build the hot-swappable keyboard?All alps mods can be done without desoldering, as long as you dont want to swap bottom housings or switch plates.
@E3E and/or XMIT: Especially in light of the ongoing GB for Alps springs,
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55888.msg2252288#msg2252288
do you have recommendations on which type(s) of Alps, if any, could be converted closer to the sound and feel of SKCM blue Alps? I know there are various ways to mod Alps switches, including clipping tabs on a tactile leaf to convert it to a clicky switch, and swapping various components, including sliders and/or springs. Which mods can be done "in situ" without desoldering switches?
There are numerous posts on how to transform various Cherry mx switches to have new stated characteristics, but I have not seen something like this for Alps switches.
Post by: WarCommand on Wed, 31 August 2016, 12:57:08
Post by: chyros on Wed, 31 August 2016, 13:32:11
I was convinced to finally trade my Orion v2 with SKCM blues. No other clicky switch compares. You will be missed :(Amen.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 31 August 2016, 14:10:50
I was convinced to finally trade my Orion v2 with SKCM blues. No other clicky switch compares. You will be missed :(
Ouch. You weren't the one that got yours from Axtran were you? What did you end up trading for?
@E3E: Hot-swapping switches does not sound trivial at all. Did you custom-build the hot-swappable keyboard?
Well, I use holtite sockets which are available from digikey for the process. The mod is actually much easier for Cherry MX switches, but for Alps switches, it requires drilling out every switch position to widen it enough to be able to fit the holtite sockets which can accept Alps pins, which are larger than the Cherry MX versions. The pins on Alps are a bit wider and more robust compared to Cherry MX's contact pins.
It's tough work. Every instance I've done the mod has also come with a ton of troubleshooting and frustration. As long as you stick to it, you'll be fine. I can give some more advice if you're looking to do something like that yourself. I'd advise against doing it on vintage keyboard PCBs though.
@E3E and/or XMIT: Especially in light of the ongoing GB for Alps springs,
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55888.msg2252288#msg2252288
do you have recommendations on which type(s) of Alps, if any, could be converted closer to the sound and feel of SKCM blue Alps? I know there are various ways to mod Alps switches, including clipping tabs on a tactile leaf to convert it to a clicky switch, and swapping various components, including sliders and/or springs. Which mods can be done "in situ" without desoldering switches?
There are numerous posts on how to transform various Cherry mx switches to have new stated characteristics, but I have not seen something like this for Alps switches.
Yeah, there are a lot of "ghetto" mods for Cherry MX switches. I'm honestly not sure what would come closest to Alps SKCM Blue in terms of sound, but the two tactile switches I feel are closest are Alps SKCM Orange and Alps SKCM Cream (not dampened). I feel like SKCM Orange is a bit lighter than SKCM Blue while SKCM Cream is a bit heavier, but Cream and Blue are listed as being the same weight on the data card from Alps.
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/a/aa/Alps_SKCMAF_and_SKCMAG_specifications.jpg)
Post by: WarCommand on Wed, 31 August 2016, 14:20:29
I was convinced to finally trade my Orion v2 with SKCM blues. No other clicky switch compares. You will be missed :(
Ouch. You weren't the one that got yours from Axtran were you? What did you end up trading for?
That'd be me. It's been replaced with a Leeku 1.3 with 55g Gateron blacks (his lube/solder job) and Hyperfuse (I kept the Orion case, just traded the internals). As much as I loved blues, I really missed the keyset customization of MX.
Post by: emdude on Wed, 31 August 2016, 14:24:06
I was convinced to finally trade my Orion v2 with SKCM blues. No other clicky switch compares. You will be missed :(
Ouch. You weren't the one that got yours from Axtran were you? What did you end up trading for?
That'd be me. It's been replaced with a Leeku 1.3 with 55g Gateron blacks (his lube/solder job) and Hyperfuse (I kept the Orion case, just traded the internals). As much as I loved blues, I really missed the keyset customization of MX.
Ah, one of Alps biggest weaknesses, unfortunately. Alps giveth, and Alps taketh away.
Post by: WarCommand on Wed, 31 August 2016, 14:25:24
100% yes. It went to a friend who had been after it for awhile, so at least it's in good hands. :)I was convinced to finally trade my Orion v2 with SKCM blues. No other clicky switch compares. You will be missed :(
Ouch. You weren't the one that got yours from Axtran were you? What did you end up trading for?
That'd be me. It's been replaced with a Leeku 1.3 with 55g Gateron blacks (his lube/solder job) and Hyperfuse (I kept the Orion case, just traded the internals). As much as I loved blues, I really missed the keyset customization of MX.
Ah, one of Alps biggest weaknesses, unfortunately. Alps giveth, and Alps taketh away.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 31 August 2016, 16:11:44
Namely, as summarized by E3E, do a "click mod" on the tactile leaf of either an orange Alps or an undamped cream/ivory Alps. The result might be getting somewhat close to the sound/feel of blue Alps, but the modded orange would be lighter and the modded cream/ivory would be heavier.
BTW, there are at least two methods recommended for the click mod. Chyros favors clipping all 4 tabs,
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/how-to-click-mod-alps-switches-t14099.html
whereas njbair suggests clipping only the top two -- the tabs near the apex of the triangular cross-section formed by the two planes of the leaf.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79539.0
However, as Chyros has pointed out, there were a number of subtle changes made by Alps in the development of the blue switch from its predecessors. Moreover, the sound and feel of any Alps switch is dependent not only on the internal characteristics of the switch (which might include some elusive lubricant as well as various hardware components of the switch), but also the properties of the keyboard in which the switches are installed.
Therefore, we cannot expect to find a simple path for transforming a non-blue Alps into a blue Alps. I suspect that discovering the secret(s) of what makes blue Alps sound and feel as they do will prove to be nearly as problematic as determining what makes a Stradivarius violin sound the way it does (which also depends on having the violin played by an excellent violinist).
Nevertheless, there may be some relatively straightforward modifications of "lesser" switches that will prove close enough for those who prefer not to wait for a genuine blue Alps board to turn up at an affordable price. Moreover, many of us get along quite nicely without blue Alps switches!
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 31 August 2016, 16:30:09
If I've assimilated the information correctly, it would appear that there might be a couple of options for producing a "ghetto blue Alps" switch.skcl green with white tops and click leaves feels pretty nice, but not the same as blues. Wingpad compared them to capacitive BS when he tried them when we met up.
Namely, as summarized by E3E, do a "click mod" on the tactile leaf of either an orange Alps or an undamped cream/ivory Alps. The result might be getting somewhat close to the sound/feel of blue Alps, but the modded orange would be lighter and the modded cream/ivory would be heavier.
BTW, there are at least two methods recommended for the click mod. Chyros favors clipping all 4 tabs,
https://deskthority.net/review-f45/how-to-click-mod-alps-switches-t14099.html
whereas njbair suggests clipping only the top two -- the tabs near the apex of the triangular cross-section formed by the two planes of the leaf.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79539.0
However, as Chyros has pointed out, there were a number of subtle changes made by Alps in the development of the blue switch from its predecessors. Moreover, the sound and feel of any Alps switch is dependent not only on the internal characteristics of the switch (which might include some elusive lubricant as well as various hardware components of the switch), but also the properties of the keyboard in which the switches are installed.
Therefore, we cannot expect to find a simple path for transforming a non-blue Alps into a blue Alps. I suspect that discovering the secret(s) of what makes blue Alps sound and feel as they do will prove to be nearly as problematic as determining what makes a Stradivarius violin sound the way it does (which also depends on having the violin played by an excellent violinist).
Nevertheless, there may be some relatively straightforward modifications of "lesser" switches that will prove close enough for those who prefer not to wait for a genuine blue Alps board to turn up at an affordable price. Moreover, many of us get along quite nicely without blue Alps switches!
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 19:30:41
skcl green with white tops and click leaves feels pretty nice, but not the same as blues. Wingpad compared them to capacitive BS when he tried them when we met up.I said that because they are so pingy and really smooth, I'm pretty convinced that they have to be ridiculously clean to get that particular key feel/sound. My modded greens weren't nearly that nice and I think it's because they've sucked up their fair share of dust over the years.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 19:32:51
Therefore, we cannot expect to find a simple path for transforming a non-blue Alps into a blue Alps. I suspect that discovering the secret(s) of what makes blue Alps sound and feel as they do will prove to be nearly as problematic as determining what makes a Stradivarius violin sound the way it does (which also depends on having the violin played by an excellent violinist).Throughout my numerous experiments I have made a few "ghetto" switches that are close to blues but it's not consistent. I'll make five out of the same parts and only one will have the right sound.
Nevertheless, there may be some relatively straightforward modifications of "lesser" switches that will prove close enough for those who prefer not to wait for a genuine blue Alps board to turn up at an affordable price. Moreover, many of us get along quite nicely without blue Alps switches!
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 31 August 2016, 20:08:25
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 20:19:52
My NeXT keyboard arrived today, not quite what the switches I was expecting, did I order the wrong one? The back says its an AAE...Welcome to my situation, haha. It's just the name of the game, unfortunately :(
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 31 August 2016, 20:41:15
My NeXT keyboard arrived today, not quite what the switches I was expecting, did I order the wrong one? The back says its an AAE...Welcome to my situation, haha. It's just the name of the game, unfortunately :(
I messaged the seller several times to confirm and in the listing picture it showed ivory switches. Seems like he just didn't know. Upon rereading the DT Wiki I now see it says some NeXT Non-ADB (AAE, non L enter). Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 31 August 2016, 20:53:12
did you try to mod the greens from that wyse board? the case is pretty filthy, so I cant inagine the switches were too good.skcl green with white tops and click leaves feels pretty nice, but not the same as blues. Wingpad compared them to capacitive BS when he tried them when we met up.I said that because they are so pingy and really smooth, I'm pretty convinced that they have to be ridiculously clean to get that particular key feel/sound. My modded greens weren't nearly that nice and I think it's because they've sucked up their fair share of dust over the years.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 20:57:36
did you try to mod the greens from that wyse board? the case is pretty filthy, so I cant inagine the switches were too good.I have tried modding those as well as some other greens I had but neither were sourced from particularly clean boards. If I ever find a clean green alps board I might be tempted to grab it to try modding 'em again.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 31 August 2016, 21:07:43
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 31 August 2016, 23:03:05
My NeXT keyboard arrived today, not quite what the switches I was expecting, did I order the wrong one? The back says its an AAE...No, no you didn't. That's really weird, have never seen that before. All small enter AAE's should have SKCM Cream. This is the first of its kind. Find out the date on the chip. I'd like to know when it was made. Both mine and E3E's are 89's. Must be super late production for small enter's.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/W7fKDKw.jpg)
Extremely unlucky i'm afraid. :(
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 23:04:10
My NeXT keyboard arrived today, not quite what the switches I was expecting, did I order the wrong one? The back says its an AAE...No, no you didn't. That's really weird, have never seen that before. All small enter AAE's should have SKCM Cream. This is the first of its kind. Find out the date on the chip. I'd like to know when it was made. Both mine and E3E's are 89's. Must be super late production for small enter's.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/W7fKDKw.jpg)
Extremely unlucky i'm afraid. :(
I have one just like this, AAE small enter with black pines. I'll pop it open at some point too.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 31 August 2016, 23:24:01
Post by: emdude on Wed, 31 August 2016, 23:30:28
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 23:31:00
Damn I'm definitely going to have to pick up one of those NeXT boards because those white on black doubleshots are sexy as hell.
If you want one for just the caps I'll sell one of my SKCM Black ones to ya' :P After all, I bought 'em hoping they'd be Creams.
Anywhoozies, here are the pictures I took of it:
(http://i.imgur.com/CChE0I0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JdkUIvJ.jpg)
It is labeled AAE on the back.
Also, our favorite Taobao guy posted a rather interesting board (https://world.taobao.com/item/537804177055.htm?fromSite=main) recently:
(http://i.imgur.com/QcLTQzR.jpg)
Are these SKCM Greys or clones?
Post by: emdude on Wed, 31 August 2016, 23:34:07
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 31 August 2016, 23:35:11
Those grey switches appear to have the four tabs associated with clones.They also look like they have some sort of B logo, dunno; still a potentially interesting switch. Those caps also look rather thick.
EDIT: Looks to me like they are these (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_OA4).
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 00:42:51
Post by: E3E on Thu, 01 September 2016, 02:44:59
Damn I'm definitely going to have to pick up one of those NeXT boards because those white on black doubleshots are sexy as hell.
Just be aware that the mods are incompatible with conventional Alps plates. The orientation of the stabs (within the caps) and their inserts (on the plate) is inverted. Whereas traditional Alps are mounted like: , - , NeXT's are ' - '
I know it's crude, but if you think about it, you'll get what I'm saying. :P
I've trashed six 5140. and zero guilt
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's common enough.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 01 September 2016, 02:48:08
Damn I'm definitely going to have to pick up one of those NeXT boards because those white on black doubleshots are sexy as hell.
Just be aware that the mods are incompatible with conventional Alps plates. They orientation of the stabs (within the caps) and their inserts (on the plate) is inverted. Whereas traditional Alps are mounted like: , - , NeXT's are ' - '
I know it's crude, but if you think about it, you'll get what I'm saying. :P
Wow, they are just like the early M0116s w/ SKCM Oranges then. Fohat made a point of it on DT today.
EDIT: An image illustrating what E3E was saying:
(http://i.imgur.com/7Pz9qQr.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 03:48:40
It's common enough.
Seller of mine would disagree, as he was unwilling to send just the keyboard. And the machine doesn't have battery, power supply, and screen latches don't work >:D
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 01 September 2016, 09:50:47
Will keep youin mind, I wouldn't mind a full board of SKCM Black anyway, even if they're one of the more underwhelming.Damn I'm definitely going to have to pick up one of those NeXT boards because those white on black doubleshots are sexy as hell.
If you want one for just the caps I'll sell one of my SKCM Black ones to ya' :P After all, I bought 'em hoping they'd be Creams.
Anywhoozies, here are the pictures I took of it:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/CChE0I0.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JdkUIvJ.jpg)
It is labeled AAE on the back.
Also, our favorite Taobao guy posted a rather interesting board (https://world.taobao.com/item/537804177055.htm?fromSite=main) recently:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QcLTQzR.jpg)
Are these SKCM Greys or clones?
And finding a few black Alps modifiers shouldn't be the hardest thing in the world is it?
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 09:52:07
just buy some blanks off of pmk, use the alphas from the NeXt.Will keep youin mind, I wouldn't mind a full board of SKCM Black anyway, even if they're one of the more underwhelming.Damn I'm definitely going to have to pick up one of those NeXT boards because those white on black doubleshots are sexy as hell.
If you want one for just the caps I'll sell one of my SKCM Black ones to ya' :P After all, I bought 'em hoping they'd be Creams.
Anywhoozies, here are the pictures I took of it:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/CChE0I0.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JdkUIvJ.jpg)
It is labeled AAE on the back.
Also, our favorite Taobao guy posted a rather interesting board (https://world.taobao.com/item/537804177055.htm?fromSite=main) recently:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QcLTQzR.jpg)
Are these SKCM Greys or clones?
And finding a few black Alps modifiers shouldn't be the hardest thing in the world is it?
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 01 September 2016, 11:14:08
Post by: emdude on Thu, 01 September 2016, 11:15:37
Nevertheless, I wish they would start selling PBT caps.
Like the Unicomp Space Saving Keyboard, soon™.
Post by: Dokyun on Thu, 01 September 2016, 11:28:36
Nevertheless, I wish they would start selling PBT caps.
Like the Unicomp Space Saving Keyboard, soon™.
What's gonna hit the market first? Matias PBT, Unicomp SSK, or Half-Life 3?
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 13:40:52
or new production skcm/l switchesNevertheless, I wish they would start selling PBT caps.
Like the Unicomp Space Saving Keyboard, soon.
What's gonna hit the market first? Matias PBT, Unicomp SSK, or Half-Life 3?
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 13:44:56
More
(http://i.imgur.com/oWUt0Xl.jpg)
I am thinking of putting SGI keycaps on an Omnikey. Unfortunately, there is one (and only one) issue - the Caps Lock key. SGI has stepped key with mount off-centre, and Omnikey expects a full-width key. I actually wouldn't mind putting Ctrl key up there regardless of size, but it's profile is just too different. I could cut Caps Lock key to fit, but that is too destructive for my taste. Ideally, there would be some way to move the mount a bit.
Another stumbling block is that keycaps are cold grey/beige in colour, and Omnikey case has had some yellowing, so there is clash there as well. I could follow Hypersphere and just dye it in off-white or some other colour, but that is something to think about.
And a slight annoyance, spacebars are not compatible - Omnikey on right, SGI on left
More
(http://i.imgur.com/lt6EXPV.jpg)
And quick comment on SGI keycaps - they are simply gorgeous.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 01 September 2016, 13:51:49
or new production skcm/l switches
Well, I don't think that is even being developed, so I don't imagine we'll ever see those, sadly.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 13:55:24
Whoa, the Omnikey space bar isn't 7u exactly?Exactly.or new production skcm/l switches
Well, I don't think that is even being developed, so I don't imagine we'll ever see those, sadly.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 01 September 2016, 13:58:36
Post by: E3E on Thu, 01 September 2016, 14:41:28
They're Zeal's Zealio switch housings with a stem from Aristotle clone switches. There's a lot of hype buzzing around them and some even say they favor them to blue Alps.
I just can't imagine them being better than Alps, but I'm very curious if anyone here has an opinion of them and how they compare to Alps.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 01 September 2016, 15:53:39
Does anyone have any opinions on Zealiostotles?
They're Zeal's Zealio switch housings with a stem from Aristotle clone switches. There's a lot of hype buzzing around them and some even say they favor them to blue Alps.
I just can't imagine them being better than Alps, but I'm very curious if anyone here has an opinion of them and how they compare to Alps.
I ordered some NOS Aristotles ordered from Zeal set to ship out at the same time as his silencing clips. I intend on doing a stem-swap into at least the housing of the Zealios alphas. I can try to report back in a month or so with a comparison to NOS blue alps.
Also, I don't know if it is common knowledge, but I may have another (albeit expensive) source for brown alps
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 01 September 2016, 15:55:59
Ooh, keep us posted! I would be lying if I said I wasn't interested.Does anyone have any opinions on Zealiostotles?
They're Zeal's Zealio switch housings with a stem from Aristotle clone switches. There's a lot of hype buzzing around them and some even say they favor them to blue Alps.
I just can't imagine them being better than Alps, but I'm very curious if anyone here has an opinion of them and how they compare to Alps.
I ordered some NOS Aristotles ordered from Zeal set to ship out at the same time as his silencing clips. I intend on doing a stem-swap into at least the housing of the Zealios alphas. I can try to report back in a month or so with a comparison to NOS blue alps.
Also, I don't know if it is common knowledge, but I may have another (albeit expensive) source for brown alps
What is this other source for brown alps, btw?
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 01 September 2016, 16:06:02
(http://i.imgur.com/Hd6TVIB.jpg)
Close up on the broken ones :(
More
(http://i.imgur.com/XtDnZLj.jpg)
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 01 September 2016, 16:11:31
Some of you may have seen this on eBay, but here are some pictures from a recent AT&T Unix 7300 PC that was just sold. Looks to be the tactile variant.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Hd6TVIB.jpg)
Close up on the broken ones :(MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/XtDnZLj.jpg)
Oh wow, these certainly are expensive PCs. Looking back in eBay's history one sold for $700 recently. In any case, yeah, those do look like SKCM Browns. Here's another picture of the keyboard from an older listing:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZwMW8RW.png)
What a weird layout.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 01 September 2016, 17:12:33
@emdude, XMIT, Chyros, and anyone else who would care to respond: Regarding binding of Alps switches, what is the relative importance of the degree of wear, degree of cleanliness, and degree of wobble in determining binding or lack thereof?
I now have 3 Northgate Omnikey 101 keyboards with SKCM Alps switches. As received from eBay, the one that appeared to be the cleanest and with the least corrosion binds the most with off-center presses. The binding is the worst if the key press is in the top-right corner, next worst when struck top left, not as bad on either lower corner, and fine if struck dead center. The dirtiest board does not bind as much as the cleanest. And the one that was intermediate in cleanliness and corrosion is by far the best with respect to overall switch smoothness and lack of binding.
I also have two KBP V60 boards with Matias Click switches. These have the notorious Matias wobble, but the switches do not bind at all. Of course, these were obtained new, but I can't help but wonder if wobble might protect against binding.
Looks like I will need to find time to open up and clean the switches on the two boards that are exhibiting binding. I will review Chyros' video on the procedure first. Any other tips on how to deal with binding Alps switches would be appreciated!
Regarding springs: I'd like to take advantage of the currently ongoing GB that includes Alps springs:
1. Is gold-plating worth the extra cost?
2. What replacement spring weight would be best for moving the following Alps switches in the direction of blue Alps?
-- brown
-- black
-- white
-- undamped cream
Post by: chyros on Thu, 01 September 2016, 17:19:49
@emdude, XMIT, Chyros, and anyone else who would care to respond: Regarding binding of Alps swithces, what is the relative importance of the degree of wear, degree of cleanliness, and degree of wobble in determining binding or lack thereof?Alps switches don't really bind, I don't think any of my boards ever have. They get scratchy for dirt and dust, but binding, no. Alps boards tend to come with pretty effective stabilisers as well, though it's not always easy to put them back if you take the keycap off.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 01 September 2016, 17:24:35
Then what is going on to make it very difficult to press the key if it is pressed very much off dead-center? This is quite marked on one of my Alps boards, but the keys do not otherwise feel scratchy.@emdude, XMIT, Chyros, and anyone else who would care to respond: Regarding binding of Alps swithces, what is the relative importance of the degree of wear, degree of cleanliness, and degree of wobble in determining binding or lack thereof?Alps switches don't really bind, I don't think any of my boards ever have. They get scratchy for dirt and dust, but binding, no. Alps boards tend to come with pretty effective stabilisers as well, though it's not always easy to put them back if you take the keycap off.
I also have no issues with the stabilzers -- I have replaced stabilized keys often on Alps/Matias boards with no problem.
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 01 September 2016, 17:27:15
Perhaps as they age Alps don't do off-center keypresses as well as lesser used Alps?Then what is going on to make it very difficult to press the key if it is pressed very much off dead-center? This is quite marked on one of my Alps boards, but the keys do not otherwise feel scratchy.@emdude, XMIT, Chyros, and anyone else who would care to respond: Regarding binding of Alps swithces, what is the relative importance of the degree of wear, degree of cleanliness, and degree of wobble in determining binding or lack thereof?Alps switches don't really bind, I don't think any of my boards ever have. They get scratchy for dirt and dust, but binding, no. Alps boards tend to come with pretty effective stabilisers as well, though it's not always easy to put them back if you take the keycap off.
I also have no issues with the stabilzers -- I have replaced stabilized keys often on Alps/Matias boards with no problem.
Cherrys saving grace may be one of Alps weaknesses.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 01 September 2016, 17:33:19
Perhaps as they age Alps don't do off-center keypresses as well as lesser used Alps?Then what is going on to make it very difficult to press the key if it is pressed very much off dead-center? This is quite marked on one of my Alps boards, but the keys do not otherwise feel scratchy.@emdude, XMIT, Chyros, and anyone else who would care to respond: Regarding binding of Alps swithces, what is the relative importance of the degree of wear, degree of cleanliness, and degree of wobble in determining binding or lack thereof?Alps switches don't really bind, I don't think any of my boards ever have. They get scratchy for dirt and dust, but binding, no. Alps boards tend to come with pretty effective stabilisers as well, though it's not always easy to put them back if you take the keycap off.
I also have no issues with the stabilzers -- I have replaced stabilized keys often on Alps/Matias boards with no problem.
Cherrys saving grace may be one of Alps weaknesses.
No, they do bind. I've had a board or two do this, including my SKCM Green 6085. When I checked that keyboard, the switches were squeaky clean, so it's either wear from use, some kind of weird aging/degradation (they were from 1992, so I don't know about aging, but perhaps some other kind of degradation)... Either way, it's all about the tops in that case. When the tops are swapped, the binding ceases.
My DocuTechs had debris in their switches but NONE of them had binding issues compared to the clean 6085. The caps had no shine either, so I really don't know what was up with that one.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 01 September 2016, 17:49:02
When you swap tops, are you talking about only the top of the switch housing and not the spring, slider, or tactile/click plate? Have you tried swapping any of these components (spring, slider, or tactile/click plate) to see if it alleviated binding? What about lubing any of the switch components with dry teflon or other form of lube?
Post by: E3E on Thu, 01 September 2016, 18:07:32
@E3E: Interesting. Have you tried cleaning the switches that were "binding" (or whatever we should call it when the switch does not readily depress when the keycaps is pressed off-center)? If so, did cleaning have any effect on binding?
When you swap tops, are you talking about only the top of the switch housing and not the spring, slider, or tactile/click plate? Have you tried swapping any of these components (spring, slider, or tactile/click plate) to see if it alleviated binding? What about lubing any of the switch components with dry teflon or other form of lube?
I did. I cleaned them and then lubricated them with molybdenum disulfide powder, which is a dry lubricant that sticks pretty well. It restored the feeling to a degree, but flat out swapping the top housings to salmon top housings (a contemporary switch to SKCM Green and one that matches it perfectly in terms of housing) took away any binding at all. By binding, I mean where the switch locks up pretty hard and is not smooth at all when exerting pressure off-center.
The only bit that needs swapping is the actual top. Salmons and pine SKCM Green use the same spring and switchplate though, so there's not much to worry about in mixing parts up. I kept the tactile leaf springs from SKCM Green, of course.
The majority of perceived smoothness and the binding issues come from the top housing as opposed to the slider, in my opinion.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 01 September 2016, 18:13:01
Post by: E3E on Thu, 01 September 2016, 18:31:46
Thanks for the further details. Is there a table posted somewhere that lists the various Alps switches and which parts are compatible among them?
Not exactly. That's a good idea for a spreadsheet though. The Deskthority pages on each switch sometimes list the switchplates length and color as well as slits or no slits (pine or bamboo).
According to Jacbolos, SKCM Brown and SKCM Cream's first generation have the symmetrical top housing that no other switch has.
Almost every SKCL top housing is the same except the generation that comes along with SKCL Yellow, though I'm not sure how it affects feel. The slits are slightly different and thinner.
Every SKCM top housing should be compatible with every switch aside from SKCM Brown, even if they have the Alps logos stamped on them.
SKCL Compacts are good for harvesting full length switch plates from in order to repair prized switches with long switchplates like SKCM Blue, SKCL Green, SKCL Brown, SKCM Brown, etc.
Long switchplates cannot be used in bottom housings designed for short switch plates and vise versa.
Springs are a trickier issue. I've found that Salmon and SKCM Green springs are exactly the same, and a lot of SKCM switches from that era used the same spring weight. SKCL Yellow also uses the same weight if I'm not mistaken.
Alps switches got very uniform in terms of spring weight around the late late 80s and early 90s.
I'm not sure about the subtle differences between every single tactile leaf. I know that a lot are a tiny bit different. SKCM Blue has a much smoother click leaf compared to SKCM White and this is a huge reason for its distinctive feel and possibly sound as well. White is a pinch sharper on the tactile bump and that completely changes the feel.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 01 September 2016, 18:48:45
Without a doubt, it's not about ageing. I'm typing this on an Alps board from 1986 that has no binding issues whatever.Perhaps as they age Alps don't do off-center keypresses as well as lesser used Alps?Then what is going on to make it very difficult to press the key if it is pressed very much off dead-center? This is quite marked on one of my Alps boards, but the keys do not otherwise feel scratchy.@emdude, XMIT, Chyros, and anyone else who would care to respond: Regarding binding of Alps swithces, what is the relative importance of the degree of wear, degree of cleanliness, and degree of wobble in determining binding or lack thereof?Alps switches don't really bind, I don't think any of my boards ever have. They get scratchy for dirt and dust, but binding, no. Alps boards tend to come with pretty effective stabilisers as well, though it's not always easy to put them back if you take the keycap off.
I also have no issues with the stabilzers -- I have replaced stabilized keys often on Alps/Matias boards with no problem.
Cherrys saving grace may be one of Alps weaknesses.
No, they do bind. I've had a board or two do this, including my SKCM Green 6085. When I checked that keyboard, the switches were squeaky clean, so it's either wear from use, some kind of weird aging/degradation (they were from 1992, so I don't know about aging, but perhaps some other kind of degradation)... Either way, it's all about the tops in that case. When the tops are swapped, the binding ceases.
My DocuTechs had debris in their switches but NONE of them had binding issues compared to the clean 6085. The caps had no shine either, so I really don't know what was up with that one.
I know heavy use definitely makes Alps worse, I have some very well-loved examples including ones that are quite clean. However, although those keys bind somewhat (not hugely), a normal keypress doesn't go down all that well either, so it's not just an orientation-dependent effect.
That said:
Quote
Cherrys saving grace may be one of Alps weaknesses.This is definitely true. Cherry keyboards have remarkably effective stabilisers. Although this isn't a virtue of the switches themselves, it's definitely one of the best advantages of Cherry as a manufacturer IMO .
Post by: E3E on Thu, 01 September 2016, 18:59:37
I couldn't do this on boards with binding issues, but on boards with smooth switches, it was no problem at all.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 01 September 2016, 19:09:14
For what it's worth, beam spring switches are incredibly wobbly (though I am not sure if it is to the same extent as Matias switches), but they can also handle off-center presses extremely well, probably the best of all the switches I've tried.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 01 September 2016, 19:34:08
It does make sense that the wobble with Matias switches might be a boon; the smaller sliders means more leeway within the housing.I have a board with switches that wobble so much it's ridiculous, they might as well be tiny joysticks. Doesn't bind at all. In that video I stress the unnecessary negative connotations that most people have with wobble. Not that it's necessarily a good thing, mind you, but it's definitely not necessarily a bad thing. If there's room inside the switch for it, it's completely harmless and arguably beneficial.
For what it's worth, beam spring switches are incredibly wobbly (though I am not sure if it is to the same extent as Matias switches), but they can also handle off-center presses extremely well, probably the best of all the switches I've tried.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 01 September 2016, 19:50:15
If there's room inside the switch for it, it's completely harmless and arguably beneficial.
Under certain conditions, "wobble" can make off-center strikes less problematic.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 20:53:24
oh baby.
all credit for the idea for this mod goes to sprit. This is still a work in progress of course, but I love it so far.
Post by: emdude on Thu, 01 September 2016, 20:58:58
Post by: E3E on Thu, 01 September 2016, 21:07:07
It does make sense that the wobble with Matias switches might be a boon; the smaller sliders means more leeway within the housing.
For what it's worth, beam spring switches are incredibly wobbly (though I am not sure if it is to the same extent as Matias switches), but they can also handle off-center presses extremely well, probably the best of all the switches I've tried.
The thing with Alps is that, depending on the condition, they handle off-center presses like champs with no binding at all. I still don't know why the 6085 with its clean switches and no noticeable wear on the keys (not even on the space bar) had binding issues.
The SKCM Blues in my Orion, for example, don't bind at all and are just wonderfully smooth. The 6085's switches I swapped into Salmon housings don't bind either. Whenever I decide to put them back into the 6085, I'm going to keep the salmon tops so that they stay that way.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 22:08:08
hand wiring pr0n
All the traces have been cut on the pcb, its just there for structural reasons.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 22:53:04
Post by: chyros on Fri, 02 September 2016, 04:12:59
Exactly :D .Under certain conditions, "wobble" can make off-center strikes less problematic.
If there's room inside the switch for it, it's completely harmless and arguably beneficial.
Eh, why would you do this? OoShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/4qzynx2.jpg)
hand wiring pr0n
All the traces have been cut on the pcb, its just there for structural reasons.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 02 September 2016, 05:01:03
@Hypersphere - I don't mind using Northgate spacebar, they are both ABS anyway and without any legends. And I don't mind having a Caps Lock legend there, even if it's mapped to Ctrl, but using the original Ctrl variation of the original would still mismatch in color and legend.
BTW, what do we know about Omnikey Evolution? There is very little information about it, I couldn't even find info on what switch(es) it has. I presume SKCM White.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 02 September 2016, 05:25:50
you didnt expect me to chase down all the original traces, did you? :)) the reason I did this was to get an easier matrix to work with in tmk. noone makes a fkeyless tkl pcb in alps, so I have to do it myself.Eh, why would you do this? OoShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/4qzynx2.jpg)
hand wiring pr0n
All the traces have been cut on the pcb, its just there for structural reasons.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 02 September 2016, 07:05:55
Ah, I see, I hadn't noticed you'd chopped something off xD .you didnt expect me to chase down all the original traces, did you? :)) the reason I did this was to get an easier matrix to work with in tmk. noone makes a fkeyless tkl pcb in alps, so I have to do it myself.Eh, why would you do this? OoShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/4qzynx2.jpg)
hand wiring pr0n
All the traces have been cut on the pcb, its just there for structural reasons.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 02 September 2016, 08:18:34
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 02 September 2016, 09:52:52
Post by: E3E on Fri, 02 September 2016, 14:31:01
@E3E: What is the effect on Alps switches whose sliders are not rotationally symmetric if the slider were assembled backwards? That is, with the notched side not facing the switch plate? Would this cause binding? If so, is it possible that binding switches were improperly assembled? (Probably not, but thought I'd ask nevertheless).
Just flipped around the slider for a blue switch from my Orion, with no binding, and there were no issues either way around. The SKCM Greens I disassembled were all properly oriented as well.
It's very odd. Maybe the switch tops were defective. It's hard to really know, as they really look the same as any other tops ostensibly. No dirt, no noticeable wear, at least on the 6085's switch tops.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 02 September 2016, 15:00:47
I have opened two of the binding switches and put them back together using the method of putting a drop of synthetic oil on the slider to hold the spring in place for reassembly. This simple procedure resulted in alleviating much of the binding.
I opened another switch and lubricated the slider rails in the switch housing. This resulted in virtually eliminating binding.
I am considering doing a thorough cleaning and lubing of all the switches. If I do this, I will evaluate binding and post the results.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 02 September 2016, 16:30:21
I cleaned and lubed slider rails in switches from one, and this eliminated binding. I also cleaned switches from another one, but I did not lube them. I still have to try them out in a plate with keycaps, to see if there is any binding left.
Just my $.02
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 02 September 2016, 17:47:02
I've tested some other Alps boards for binding. So far, the following do NOT bind:
+ Apple Extended Orange Alps
+ Custom 60% Brown Alps
+ ESI/Ortek White Alps Clone
+ IBM 5140 Brown Alps and Compact Green Alps
+ Leading Edge DC-2014 Blue Alps
+ NeXT Non-ADB ISO Black Alps
+ NeXT Non-ADB US ANSI Undamped Cream Alps
+ NeXT Non-ADB US ANSI Undamped Cream Alps
+ Ortek 84 White Alps Clone
+ SIIG Suntouch Jr White Alps
+ V60 Matias Click
+ V60 Matias Quiet
+ V60 Matias Click
+ Wang 724 NIB Black Alps
+ Zenith Z-150 Green Alps
The following DO Bind:
- Northgate Omnikey 101 White Alps == very slight on upper left corner of Backslash and Enter
- Northgate Omnikey 101 White Alps == moderate on several keys with off-center key presses
- Northgate Omnikey 101 White Alps == moderate to severe on numerous keys with off-center key presses
- SIIG Minitouch 84 Monterey Blue == moderate on upper left corner of Backspace and Enter
Preliminary tests on the most-affected Omnikey 101 indicate that binding can be alleviated and possibly eliminated by lubricating the slider rails of the switches with Superlube 51010 oil.
Post by: Keycap on Sat, 03 September 2016, 09:32:35
And I'm not going to be soaking the switchplates, obviously.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 09:36:46
Would it be safe to clean Alps switch housings/sliders with dental tabs? I found some White Alps switches that are really dirty, and using dental tabs would probably be the most effective way to clean them in a short amount of time. And it wouldn't be too much of a loss if the plastic had some terrible reaction with the dental tabs for whatever reason, as we're talking about White Alps here, easily the most common Alps switches.Yeah, a few other people have done this with no adverse effects.
And I'm not going to be soaking the switchplates, obviously.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 03 September 2016, 10:26:29
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 16:14:22
Provided of course I can fix those damn top housings. Going to try denture tabs.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 03 September 2016, 16:47:40
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 17:21:34
You can convert a tactile/linear Alps switch to a linear switch by removing the tactile/click leaf. No need to transfer anything from the green Alps.green alps are arguably much better than linearized any other alps
Post by: chyros on Sat, 03 September 2016, 17:28:48
Are they though? Granted, I don't have any NOS linear Alps boards, but similar-condition linearised boards felt at least as good as green Alps Oo .You can convert a tactile/linear Alps switch to a linear switch by removing the tactile/click leaf. No need to transfer anything from the green Alps.green alps are arguably much better than linearized any other alps
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 17:34:21
my green alps were near mint, and were the smoothest most statisfying linears I ever tried.Are they though? Granted, I don't have any NOS linear Alps boards, but similar-condition linearised boards felt at least as good as green Alps Oo .You can convert a tactile/linear Alps switch to a linear switch by removing the tactile/click leaf. No need to transfer anything from the green Alps.green alps are arguably much better than linearized any other alps
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 03 September 2016, 17:49:53
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 03 September 2016, 19:03:23
Post by: chyros on Sat, 03 September 2016, 19:21:43
I suppose there could be another advantage of doing the mod by transplanting the sliders from the green Alps switches -- they have C2 rotational symmetry, so that you needn't worry about which side of the slider faces the switch plate.You're such a chemist xD .
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 03 September 2016, 19:23:20
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 19:58:57
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/sdp/5743873162.html
Post by: E3E on Sat, 03 September 2016, 20:21:25
Huh, what's this. It's almost one of those Omron Wangs but in ANSI.
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/sdp/5743873162.html
That's a sharp wang, man. If it had good switches, I'd be all over it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 21:05:09
The model number is 725-3492-US, which reminds me of the 3770 but it's 'made by Honeywell' so rubber dome or something non Alps probably.Huh, what's this. It's almost one of those Omron Wangs but in ANSI.
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/sdp/5743873162.html
That's a sharp wang, man. If it had good switches, I'd be all over it.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 03 September 2016, 22:01:15
(http://i.imgur.com/gIJZAmB.jpg)
It was a win/win for both of us since he wasn't going to sell the first three with either broken switches, a cracked case or non-functioning PCB.
Someone told me that when they linearised their AT-101w they thought that it felt too "slow" combing back up. But this may just be linear Alps in general compared to Cherry.
I didn't find this to be the case at all, could anyone tell me how close these feel to SKCL Brown Alps?
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 22:24:16
Excuse the cell phone pics, but lets just say I worked everything out with the seller of the Black Alps NeXT keyboard...Ill buy 2 of those NeXt boards from you since those are my favorite switches :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gIJZAmB.jpg)
It was a win/win for both of us since he wasn't going to sell the first three with either a broken switches, a cracked case or non-functioning PCB.Someone told me that when they linearised their AT-101w they thought that it felt too "slow" combing back up. But this may just be linear Alps in general compared to Cherry.
I didn't find this to be the case at all, could anyone tell me how close these feel to SKCL Brown Alps?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 03 September 2016, 22:29:00
Excuse the cell phone pics, but lets just say I worked everything out with the seller of the Black Alps NeXT keyboard...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gIJZAmB.jpg)
It was a win/win for both of us since he wasn't going to sell the first three with either a broken switches, a cracked case or non-functioning PCB.Someone told me that when they linearised their AT-101w they thought that it felt too "slow" combing back up. But this may just be linear Alps in general compared to Cherry.
I didn't find this to be the case at all, could anyone tell me how close these feel to SKCL Brown Alps?
Jesus. That's crazy. How much did that all cost you?
Also SKCL Brown have a cusiony bottom out which is quite nice. I'll have to compare with the AT101W I have and linearize a few, but I think it's quite different.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 03 September 2016, 22:35:02
Excuse the cell phone pics, but lets just say I worked everything out with the seller of the Black Alps NeXT keyboard...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gIJZAmB.jpg)
It was a win/win for both of us since he wasn't going to sell the first three with either a broken switches, a cracked case or non-functioning PCB.Someone told me that when they linearised their AT-101w they thought that it felt too "slow" combing back up. But this may just be linear Alps in general compared to Cherry.
It was a little over a hundred shipped, but the seller asked that I keep the one with black alps.
I didn't find this to be the case at all, could anyone tell me how close these feel to SKCL Brown Alps?
Jesus. That's crazy. How much did that all cost you?
Also SKCL Brown have a cusiony bottom out which is quite nice. I'll have to compare with the AT101W I have and linearize a few, but I think it's quite different.
It was a little over a hundred shipped, but the seller asked that I keep the one with black alps. @Mike I can certainly do that once I settle in with school, considering that I am back to going full time. I don't need five XD
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 23:19:49
I'm also interested in one. Either cash or trade some restored SKCM Blues and/or SKCL Greens.Excuse the cell phone pics, but lets just say I worked everything out with the seller of the Black Alps NeXT keyboard...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gIJZAmB.jpg)
It was a win/win for both of us since he wasn't going to sell the first three with either a broken switches, a cracked case or non-functioning PCB.Someone told me that when they linearised their AT-101w they thought that it felt too "slow" combing back up. But this may just be linear Alps in general compared to Cherry.
It was a little over a hundred shipped, but the seller asked that I keep the one with black alps.
I didn't find this to be the case at all, could anyone tell me how close these feel to SKCL Brown Alps?
Jesus. That's crazy. How much did that all cost you?
Also SKCL Brown have a cusiony bottom out which is quite nice. I'll have to compare with the AT101W I have and linearize a few, but I think it's quite different.
It was a little over a hundred shipped, but the seller asked that I keep the one with black alps. @Mike I can certainly do that once I settle in with school, considering that I am back to going full time. I don't need five XD
Can't bring myself to ruin my essentially NIB one.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 03 September 2016, 23:20:40
Excuse the cell phone pics, but lets just say I worked everything out with the seller of the Black Alps NeXT keyboard...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/gIJZAmB.jpg)
It was a win/win for both of us since he wasn't going to sell the first three with either a broken switches, a cracked case or non-functioning PCB.Someone told me that when they linearised their AT-101w they thought that it felt too "slow" combing back up. But this may just be linear Alps in general compared to Cherry.
It was a little over a hundred shipped, but the seller asked that I keep the one with black alps.
I didn't find this to be the case at all, could anyone tell me how close these feel to SKCL Brown Alps?
Jesus. That's crazy. How much did that all cost you?
Also SKCL Brown have a cusiony bottom out which is quite nice. I'll have to compare with the AT101W I have and linearize a few, but I think it's quite different.
It was a little over a hundred shipped, but the seller asked that I keep the one with black alps. @Mike I can certainly do that once I settle in with school, considering that I am back to going full time. I don't need five XD
Very nice. I might take one more from you if you don't mind. I'm not looking to pop them in a full-size, so only enough for my hot swap boards and I'm golden.
That reminds me of my DocuTechs I got. Four of them for $100, originally like $90 but he undercharged me for shipping. I was so happy to have found them that I compensated the difference for him. Haha.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 September 2016, 23:29:18
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 03 September 2016, 23:50:41
I should break since someone also offered to buy the Pine Black switches for modding on Reddit, glad I picked up an Engineer desoldering pump this week :D
Post by: E3E on Sun, 04 September 2016, 00:19:32
Wow, that was quick. I just swapped the busted case with the one with the busted switch so I have 3 that are intact (one for me to be USB converted), and two to be harvested for switches. I will be PMing each of you soon to work the details.
I should break since someone also offered to buy the Pine Black switches for modding on Reddit, glad I picked up an Engineer desoldering pump this week :D
Were the pine blacks not that great? I haven't tried the pine variant, but I always thought SKCM Black would be good if it had pine tops.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 04 September 2016, 00:53:23
Wow, that was quick. I just swapped the busted case with the one with the busted switch so I have 3 that are intact (one for me to be USB converted), and two to be harvested for switches. I will be PMing each of you soon to work the details.
I should break since someone also offered to buy the Pine Black switches for modding on Reddit, glad I picked up an Engineer desoldering pump this week :D
Were the pine blacks not that great? I haven't tried the pine variant, but I always thought SKCM Black would be good if it had pine tops.
They are alright, I may end up keeping it. Better than bamboo no doubt, but the I much prefer the weighting of ivory and oranges.
One think that did come of talking to the seller is that labels with Palo Alto indicate ivory and Redwood City lables indicate blacks. This was based on him looking over his stock, hopefully others can confirm this.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 04 September 2016, 00:59:02
Sorry to disprove your theory.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 04 September 2016, 01:06:28
Post by: chyros on Sun, 04 September 2016, 03:53:58
That was shortlived lol, I guess it is truly is a game of chance :confused:It's always like that with Alps :P .
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 04 September 2016, 04:28:33
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 04 September 2016, 04:59:55
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 04 September 2016, 06:08:59
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 04 September 2016, 07:27:23
Interesting how there are consistently more posts in the Alps appreciation thread than the HHKB love thread.because alps is cooler than topre
Post by: chyros on Sun, 04 September 2016, 07:28:47
Interesting how there are consistently more posts in the Alps appreciation thread than the HHKB love thread.Alps is a much broad church. Their popularity even after they haven't been made for 20 years is a testament to the design, I guess.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 04 September 2016, 09:18:59
Yes -- I can't help myself. I suppose this applies to you as well, as it takes one to know one! ;)I suppose there could be another advantage of doing the mod by transplanting the sliders from the green Alps switches -- they have C2 rotational symmetry, so that you needn't worry about which side of the slider faces the switch plate.You're such a chemist xD .
Regarding the popularity of Alps, when I discovered that it is possible to open Alps switches without desoldering, a whole new world of chimeric switches flashed through my mind.
Yesterday, I put a Matias Quiet slider into the white Alps switch under the spacebar on my latest Omnikey 101 whose switches tend to bind when they are struck off-center. Now the switch is free of binding and very quiet. Because it has the white Alps click leaf, it clicks faintly, but the downstroke and upstroke clacks are greatly attenuated.
I've also tried clipping the bottom damper on the slider from a Matias Quiet switch and transplanting it into a white Alps switch on the Omni 101 keyboard. It works as I had hoped -- the downstroke is undamped, but the return stroke is damped. This has been done by others as described in the following post and video:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72197.msg1764530#msg1764530
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqlKdKZobJA
I prefer the semi-damped switches to the fully damped ones, because the fully damped switches have a somewhat mushy feel when bottoming out. The semi-damped switches soften the blow of the return stroke, so that the effect is similar to the silencing produced by installing silencing rings in Topre switches.
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 04 September 2016, 09:52:04
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 04 September 2016, 10:40:59
While on topic of dampening, has anyone tried using dampened sliders from cream damped switch in earlier alps switches - browns, greens, yellows, blues... Would this even make sense?I can try it with skcm creams and skcm blues. Will update when I get the chance.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 04 September 2016, 11:14:19
While on topic of dampening, has anyone tried using dampened sliders from cream damped switch in earlier alps switches - browns, greens, yellows, blues... Would this even make sense?I recall emdude mentioning doing this -- cream damped sliders from an SGI in a brown Alps board. Because the dampers in a cream Alps do not extend beyond the ends of the slider, I think you would also need to use the tops from the damped cream switches. However, this is not the case with damped sliders from Matias Quiet switches -- the dampers extend beyond the ends of the slider, so you can use the tops of the recipient switch. I have done this with Matias Quiet sliders and white Alps switches.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 04 September 2016, 12:23:17
Indeed. I use a lot of complicated words nowadays as well; a by-product of typing your thesis, I guess xD . You find fun words as well, such as "incompossible", "lixiviation" and "hypengyophobia" :p .Yes -- I can't help myself. I suppose this applies to you as well, as it takes one to know one! ;)I suppose there could be another advantage of doing the mod by transplanting the sliders from the green Alps switches -- they have C2 rotational symmetry, so that you needn't worry about which side of the slider faces the switch plate.You're such a chemist xD .
I wonder if C2 symmetry is even used in areas outside chemistry xD .
Post by: emdude on Sun, 04 September 2016, 13:39:08
While on topic of dampening, has anyone tried using dampened sliders from cream damped switch in earlier alps switches - browns, greens, yellows, blues... Would this even make sense?I recall emdude mentioning doing this -- cream damped sliders from an SGI in a brown Alps board. Because the dampers in a cream Alps do not extend beyond the ends of the slider, I think you would also need to use the tops from the damped cream switches. However, this is not the case with damped sliders from Matias Quiet switches -- the dampers extend beyond the ends of the slider, so you can use the tops of the recipient switch. I have done this with Matias Quiet sliders and white Alps switches.
Could you clarify how the dampers on the Cream Damped switch would be an issue? I can use the SKCM Brown switch tops just fine. I don't think any other switch top would work either because of the dummy switchplate.
From a cursory comparison, Cream Damped and undamped sliders look the same to me aside from the recesses for the rubber dampers.
@alh84001, I ended up putting damped sliders in my SKCM Brown keyboard because bottoming out has fatiguing.. It feels a lot like a rubber dome now, quite pleasant to use actually. You lose the sound from bottoming out though.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 04 September 2016, 17:45:55
One of my favorite words from inorganic chemistry is "nephelauxetic". We geeks owe so much to the Greeks!
@emdude: Looks like I was mistaken about the ability of damped cream sliders to exert their damping effect in a chimeric switch with a housing other than that from a damped cream switch. I hadn't tried this myself. I have tried putting a slider from a Matias Quiet switch into the housing for a white Alps, and the Matias Quiet slider does exert its damping effect in the chimeric switch. Hmm -- chimeric -- another word derived from the Greek!
Post by: chyros on Sun, 04 September 2016, 18:02:35
@Chyros: C2 symmetry outside of Chemistry? Certainly! As you no doubt know, point groups, symmetry elements, and symmetry operations are based on group theory. Chemical structures represent just one application; there are also applications to other areas of mathematics, physics, music, cryptography, ....Ah yes, good one, I remember that one now xD . If you like funky words, not much beats H. P. Lovecraft, by the way xD .
One of my favorite words from inorganic chemistry is "nephelauxetic". We geeks owe so much to the Greeks!
And yeah, I know that symmetry operations are quite a diverse thing, but would they refer to that as C2 outside of chemistry? Or would they have their own nomenclature? Certainly if I talked to someone on the street about it they wouldn't have a clue, I think xD.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 04 September 2016, 19:33:26
Post by: chyros on Sun, 04 September 2016, 20:02:18
@Chyros: Moral of the story -- never speak to anyone on the street. ;)I've barely even SEEN the street for months now, locked away in the office until midnight every day xD .
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 06 September 2016, 16:27:42
Post by: emdude on Tue, 06 September 2016, 16:31:56
Quick question that I can't seem to find the answer to; do the keycaps on the Apple M0116 have the same profile as the ones on the AEKs?
Yes. Very useful if you have keysets from both and want to use an Esc with the mount oriented normally for a 60% build.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 06 September 2016, 16:44:06
Quick question that I can't seem to find the answer to; do the keycaps on the Apple M0116 have the same profile as the ones on the AEKs?
Yes. Very useful if you have keysets from both and want to use an Esc with the mount oriented normally for a 60% build.
Exactly what I thinking. Thanks!
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 06 September 2016, 17:34:57
Post by: E3E on Tue, 06 September 2016, 17:37:48
A thought popped into my head - did any of you guys like enough to have SKCM greens tried to click-mod a switch or two? I wonder how they would compare to other clicky alps.
Chyros has, but because of the way the leaf works in greens, they don't cause a click.
Post by: Adgar on Tue, 06 September 2016, 20:55:49
Post by: Adgar on Tue, 06 September 2016, 21:00:28
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 06 September 2016, 21:01:58
It sounds very good clear and melodious.Those are alps clones, called KPT Blues. I have heard very good things about them. Could you make a typing demonstration video to share with us?
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 07 September 2016, 08:56:42
[attach=1]
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/toshiba-t1200-minitouch-t4656.html
Has anyone here tried using these switches in a custom-built keyboard? I would suppose that they would have non-standard pins, and I think they are PCB-mounted.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 07 September 2016, 09:39:13
I found a Toshiba T1200 and harvested the beautiful doubleshot Alps-mount keycaps. The switches are some sort of Alps-mount linear. I think they are the same ones that Webwit described in a post on DT:pcb mount, nonstandard pins, fairly rough keyfeel, no thanks
(Attachment Link)
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/toshiba-t1200-minitouch-t4656.html
Has anyone here tried using these switches in a custom-built keyboard? I would suppose that they would have non-standard pins, and I think they are PCB-mounted.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 07 September 2016, 15:41:24
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:51:51
(http://i.imgur.com/sbQXXrq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5EqMjIu.jpg)
Black AT101W with the alphas and most mods from an AT101 and the bottom row keys from an AT101W. Orange Alps Switches, AT101 weight plate (actually makes a noticeable difference) and obligatory Geekhack swag. Now onto more interesting projects... like when I eventually get a Northgate Omnikey :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 08 September 2016, 01:11:49
Pic from my swap:
(http://i.imgur.com/9n4FKlI.jpg)
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 08 September 2016, 01:17:30
Looks good man. Now I'm not the only one with an SKCM Orange swapped AT101 :)IIRC fohat has one as well; that being said I think yours wins just because the SGI Granite is a far cooler looking board, haha. In any case, they're fun, aren't they?
Pic from my swap:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9n4FKlI.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 08 September 2016, 07:36:12
fohat has one as well; that being said I think yours wins just because the SGI Granite is a far cooler looking board,
Dell/orange was one of my first transplant projects and still one of my favorites.
Did you adjust the photos, or where did you get those "electric" glowing bright orange switches? All of my orange switches came from Apples and were much more faded looking. Sometimes it was even a bit difficult to tell orange and salmon apart.
And I got a Wang with salmons that were so faded out that I sold a handful of them to another user here as "creams" thinking that they were just a bit more pink-ish than usual.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 08 September 2016, 10:09:08
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 08 September 2016, 11:03:04
Can anyone give a side-be-side sound comparison of a stock AT101 versus an orange-modded AT101/
My stockish AT101 is currently in pieces (because I harvested its keycaps and weight plate for this project) but if I ever put it back together I could record one. That being said, I think the difference in sound would be rather marginal since, for me, it's mostly a key feel thing. If I remember correctly they sound more or less identical except that I'm less prone to bottoming out on my orange-modded one. Others might have a different opinion here but when it comes to tactile switches sound really isn't high on my priorities list.
An interesting tidbit is that I did put one Blue Alps switch in this build (along with a SKCL Green in the Pause/Break/PrintScr/ScrollLck cluster to serve as a mini "switch tester") and I can say that Blue Alps really sound nice in this chassis. They have a nice, deep click and they reverberate with the entire chassis causing a satisfying "ping." It kind of makes me wish that I built this board with Blue Alps :p
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 08 September 2016, 11:23:50
Today I was testing a keycap on my recently refurbished Northgate Omnikey 101 with SKCM white Alps. I had put a "D" cap from an IBM 5140 on the D key, and then replaced it with the stock D cap. After doing this, the D key failed to register. All other keys registered just fine.
I pulled the cap and replaced it again to be sure it was seated properly. It still failed to register.
I then opened the switch, blew it out with canned air, put it back together, and still no joy.
Opened the switch again, cleaned the switch plate as best I could with 70% isopropyl alcohol, checked to be sure that the click leaf was not damaged in some way, reassembled, still no luck.
Opened the switch again and found that if I gently pushed the leaf on the switch plate toward the rear of the switch with a plastic spudger, the key would register. So I supposed that the problem was within the switch and not due to a broken PCB trace or bad solder joint. I tried gently pulling the leaf on the switch plate toward the front of the switch in an attempt to adjust the springiness, but the reassembled switch would still not register.
Finally, I replaced the slider, spring, and click leaf with the corresponding parts from a Matias Click switch and reassembled. Now the key registers. I am glad that this worked, but I do not know why it worked. Thoughts and suggestions welcome!
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 08 September 2016, 11:47:24
Hmm. Don't give me any ideas :rolleyes:Can anyone give a side-be-side sound comparison of a stock AT101 versus an orange-modded AT101/
My stockish AT101 is currently in pieces (because I harvested its keycaps and weight plate for this project) but if I ever put it back together I could record one. That being said, I think the difference in sound would be rather marginal since, for me, it's mostly a key feel thing. If I remember correctly they sound more or less identical except that I'm less prone to bottoming out on my orange-modded one. Others might have a different opinion here but when it comes to tactile switches sound really isn't high on my priorities list.
An interesting tidbit is that I did put one Blue Alps switch in this build (along with a SKCL Green in the Pause/Break/PrintScr/ScrollLck cluster to serve as a mini "switch tester") and I can say that Blue Alps really sound nice in this chassis. They have a nice, deep click and they reverberate with the entire chassis causing a satisfying "ping." It kind of makes me wish that I built this board with Blue Alps :p
I still have all of those taobao SKCM Blues. But I figure it's better to stay Orange since I have the Packard.
Do want a full size linear board though. Will find a chassis eventually.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 08 September 2016, 11:53:29
Hmm. Don't give me any ideas :rolleyes:How are the restoration efforts coming along? I haven't had a chance to work on mine recently, unfortunately...
I still have all of those taobao SKCM Blues. But I figure it's better to stay Orange since I have the Packard.
Do want a full size linear board though. Will find a chassis eventually.
I dunno' if I would bother making a custom, full-sized linear Alps board, though, especially when the Zenith boards are so nice in the first place. What've you been considering?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 08 September 2016, 14:40:05
I'm asking since the Dell AT101W and AEK have a very different typing sound, but I think the chassis are for a significant part to blame for that. I think it'd be quite interesting to hear the difference between the two switches in an identical chassis.Can anyone give a side-be-side sound comparison of a stock AT101 versus an orange-modded AT101/
My stockish AT101 is currently in pieces (because I harvested its keycaps and weight plate for this project) but if I ever put it back together I could record one. That being said, I think the difference in sound would be rather marginal since, for me, it's mostly a key feel thing.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 08 September 2016, 18:24:56
I've haven't done any for a little while. Got busy. Have about 40 good and ready to go Blues and 3-4 that need to be redone b/c of too much lube etc. The Greens are just sitting since their top housings are currently useless. Will try some denture tabs to fix them up, warm soapy water soak didn't take away the roughness.Hmm. Don't give me any ideas :rolleyes:How are the restoration efforts coming along? I haven't had a chance to work on mine recently, unfortunately...
I still have all of those taobao SKCM Blues. But I figure it's better to stay Orange since I have the Packard.
Do want a full size linear board though. Will find a chassis eventually.
I dunno' if I would bother making a custom, full-sized linear Alps board, though, especially when the Zenith boards are so nice in the first place. What've you been considering?
Not exactly full size but something like a Siig Minitouch would be awesome. I have my frankenstein V60 w/ Greens off my old Zenith but its too small for daily use. The Siig has arrow key's and F key's. I found a NIB one on clist in New Jersey but the guy is pickup only. Just emailed him back stating my situation (that I live across the country lol) Hopefully that goes well.
Otherwise I am going to retry to get a 5140 off my local clist. This guy that lives 5min away from me has two and one of them is broken. His prices are sky high however but its been multiple month's since I contacted him so maybe he will go down on his price. His old lowest price was $70 for the broken one, $40 I think is fair. He knows my email address from before so that won't work but he recently put in a phone number for contact so ill use that ;)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 09 September 2016, 03:08:21
(http://i.imgur.com/9Ni6GmI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QtPZYTI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/t4CzGqt.jpg)
You might think it looks a little funky, but I decided to put on some uniform/non-sculpted cylindrical caps that I got from itzmeluigi in a trade. They're Chinese PBT key caps. They are similar to some caps I got off of Sharp PA-1000H typewriters in that they have no sculpt, but these are indeed PBT (the Sharp had ABS caps), which is really nice.
I slapped them onto the Orion because it has a rather steep incline and I thought the uniform cylindrical caps would be at home on the board. They feel amazing. Much nicer than the AT101 caps I had on before, to be honest.
The way my fingers can slide between keys and rows just makes the overall experience very smooth. They're about as tall as the ASDF row of standard Alps profile key caps.
Had to be crafty with some of the key placement. Used the number pad keys for the function row, and I also used some Acer key caps for the mods that these Chinese sets did not cover. I think it all blended together quite well. :)
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 09 September 2016, 11:02:40
I'm typing this on my non-ADB NeXT keyboard. Just got it up and running today with Hasu's converter. I've mapped the keyboard to an HHKB-like layout (of course!). Everthing just works! Hasu is a genius, as everyone here knows.
Currently, I have the converter on the attached cable. Later on, I might put the converter inside the case and install a flush-mount connector.
The one I have is the ANSI version with undamped cream Alps. It has a pleasant tactile feel. I might swap the slider on the spacebar with one from a Matias Quiet switch. The doubleshot ABS caps would look nice if they were new, but they have become shiny in a non-uniform way, so I think I will replace at least the alpha keys with dye-sub PBT. Allthough I would prefer not to have Italic font on the board, I'll probably use caps from a Granite SGI so that the alpha keys and NumPad keys will have a consistent look.
Unfortunately, the mods have also picked up inconsistent shine, so I might replace these as well. This might take two weeks or so, as I am waiting for some Alps caps to arrive.
When I get the board pulled together, I will post some pics, perhaps in a separate brief review.
Post by: WarCommand on Fri, 09 September 2016, 11:21:57
Post by: E3E on Fri, 09 September 2016, 14:52:24
E3E- that looks so good. Which switches are in there?
Thanks. :D It feels so much better on a board with a steep angle like the Orion. I decided to keep Alps SKCM Blue in the board. I was gonna swap them out for the SKCM Greens, but blue Alps in an aluminum TKL is just really the classic unbeatable combo.
@E3E: Looks good. Exotic!
I'm typing this on my non-ADB NeXT keyboard. Just got it up and running today with Hasu's converter. I've mapped the keyboard to an HHKB-like layout (of course!). Everthing just works! Hasu is a genius, as everyone here knows.
Currently, I have the converter on the attached cable. Later on, I might put the converter inside the case and install a flush-mount connector.
The one I have is the ANSI version with undamped cream Alps. It has a pleasant tactile feel. I might swap the slider on the spacebar with one from a Matias Quiet switch. The doubleshot ABS caps would look nice if they were new, but they have become shiny in a non-uniform way, so I think I will replace at least the alpha keys with dye-sub PBT. Allthough I would prefer not to have Italic font on the board, I'll probably use caps from a Granite SGI so that the alpha keys and NumPad keys will have a consistent look.
Unfortunately, the mods have also picked up inconsistent shine, so I might replace these as well. This might take two weeks or so, as I am waiting for some Alps caps to arrive.
When I get the board pulled together, I will post some pics, perhaps in a separate brief review.
Thank you! So many dyesub colors. It's pretty charming. :)
Oh very nice. What do you think of the SKCM Creams compared to SKCM Blues and the SKCM Whites you fancied in your Omnikey? How do they stack up?
My NeXT was in great shape, but I paid about $20 more for his "nice" condition ones just to be safe. No shine there. Did yours come with shine or did your use cause the shine on the keys already? They are nice caps for what they are. Really the only WoB Alps Electric doubleshots that have been documented so far. It's a shame that the mods use stabs mounted in that strange orientation.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 09 September 2016, 16:02:12
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3GXeUse.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9Ni6GmI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QtPZYTI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/t4CzGqt.jpg)
You might think it looks a little funky, but I decided to put on some uniform/non-sculpted cylindrical caps that I got from itzmeluigi in a trade. They're Chinese PBT key caps. They are similar to some caps I got off of Sharp PA-1000H typewriters in that they have no sculpt, but these are indeed PBT (the Sharp had ABS caps), which is really nice.
I slapped them onto the Orion because it has a rather steep incline and I thought the uniform cylindrical caps would be at home on the board. They feel amazing. Much nicer than the AT101 caps I had on before, to be honest.
The way my fingers can slide between keys and rows just makes the overall experience very smooth. They're about as tall as the ASDF row of standard Alps profile key caps.
Had to be crafty with some of the key placement. Used the number pad keys for the function row, and I also used some Acer key caps for the mods that these Chinese sets did not cover. I think it all blended together quite well. :)
MY PRECIOUS
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 September 2016, 01:00:51
Post by: E3E on Sat, 10 September 2016, 01:06:18
After a "new" board for a SKCL Green swap. It rhymes with Bang and you've seen it before :p
Those Chang boards really are something though. :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 September 2016, 01:51:58
Hah. It's a Wang. That same one I tried to get back in July but the guy went dark on me. He reposted it. Perfect for a SKCL Green swap. Either i'm smart or a Alps marauder who makes some freaky Alps Frankenstein stuff :pAfter a "new" board for a SKCL Green swap. It rhymes with Bang and you've seen it before :p
Those Chang boards really are something though. :thumb:
Orange in an SGI, Green in Wang? What is this sorcery?! Could of just bought a ZKB-2 and a AEK. All I know is that my solder tip is ****ing destroyed. Its almost a stub at this point. The tip part of the tip is holding on by a thread. Looks like a mouse took a huge bite out of the side :))
Post by: E3E on Sat, 10 September 2016, 02:56:26
Hah. It's a Wang. That same one I tried to get back in July but the guy went dark on me. He reposted it. Perfect for a SKCL Green swap. Either i'm smart or a Alps marauder who makes some freaky Alps Frankenstein stuff :pAfter a "new" board for a SKCL Green swap. It rhymes with Bang and you've seen it before :p
Those Chang boards really are something though. :thumb:
Orange in an SGI, Green in Wang? What is this sorcery?! Could of just bought a ZKB-2 and a AEK. All I know is that my solder tip is ****ing destroyed. Its almost a stub at this point. The tip part of the tip is holding on by a thread. Looks like a mouse took a huge bite out of the side :))
I had that happen with my first iron, some cheapo Weller. The tip got dirty and just kinda unsightly, so I sanded it to a fine tip again, which just so happened to be copper, to my surprise, and the solder ended up eating away at it and it got down to a nub.
I've not had any tips on my workstation (some chinese little thing) iron go bad yet, but I always make sure to clean mine with a brass sponge and tip tinner when I'm done and while I'm working as well.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 10 September 2016, 05:55:33
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 10 September 2016, 08:47:19
my first iron, some cheapo Weller. The tip got dirty and just kinda unsightly, so I sanded it to a fine tip again, which just so happened to be copper, to my surprise, and the solder ended up eating away at it and it got down to a nub.
I still use my 1970s cheap-o Weller, I can't believe that it still works but it is nice and lightweight.
I regularly file the tip into a wedge when it gets gnarly, and can do that several times before I have to throw it away.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 10 September 2016, 09:37:53
I was somewhat disappointed in the condition of my NeXT keyboard -- the keycaps have a lot of shine. In addition, there is something strange about the plastic used for the case -- I've cleaned it with detergent, but when I wipe it down with 70% isopropyl alcohol, the wipes keep picking up something black from the case. It seems that whatever method was used for coloring the plastic is soluble in isopropyl alcohol. The plastic is also rather soft. I am careful about not stripping screw threads, but I managed to strip the threads on the two mounting posts at the rear center of the case -- I am going to try putting in some very thin screw anchors. You also have to be careful aligning the rubber gasket when reassembling the case.
Imperfections aside, I like the form factor of the NeXT board and the tactility of the undamped cream Alps switches. However, the NeXT board does not have the solid sound and feel of the Northgate.
Post by: pchatterjee on Sat, 10 September 2016, 12:07:51
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 September 2016, 12:25:57
My hardest would be the China boards (obviously) and the FK-3001 takes the cake otherwise. The SGI, Packard and Compaq all were very similar.
How I found it. Compressed air took all that away instantly :)
(http://i.imgur.com/7ksA3Uk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YhaBKdX.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 10 September 2016, 12:53:36
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 September 2016, 16:34:45
Here's the layout. Much more conventional with some extra stuff thrown in. If you want the hex file PM me. Another advantage of this is that for small enter Cream boards it takes advantage of the extra backslash key that the L enter doesn't have. Default is a dummy.
(http://i.imgur.com/lHToJD6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ptG21Eq.jpg)
Also now the LED's are used for caps!
(http://i.imgur.com/AXYkn1f.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 10 September 2016, 18:42:41
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 September 2016, 18:56:38
The shout out was mainly that you took the time to help someone that you've never met before on the internet reprogram their keyboard to their liking for free. With multiple emails back and fourth.
The keyboard community is awesome one :)
Post by: waqar on Sat, 10 September 2016, 20:36:08
Post by: chyros on Sat, 10 September 2016, 20:49:15
What color are the switches? They feel dampened.Salmon. Tactile non-damped.
Post by: waqar on Sat, 10 September 2016, 21:39:40
What color are the switches? They feel dampened.Salmon. Tactile non-damped.
Thanks
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 September 2016, 22:44:57
Here's what I am talking about. You can see the white stuff in the slider well. Thoughts?
(http://i.imgur.com/9whmRz0.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 11 September 2016, 06:43:33
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 September 2016, 08:28:09
Post by: chyros on Sun, 11 September 2016, 10:19:09
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 September 2016, 11:51:07
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 14:19:05
Post by: Dokyun on Sun, 11 September 2016, 14:27:46
I originally finished this board about 5 years ago with a black and white scheme and proceeded to immediately snap the stem on the caps lock key. These days I would've repaired it but back then we knew far less about ALPS (complicated and simple was all they were known by, none of this SKCM or different color rubbish!), and keyboard modification in general barely existed. I tried to "fix" the black ALPS at the time too by transporting in the click leafs from a gutted white ALPS board but it didn't do much at all. Having ruined the scheme and not very satisfied with the feel of it, I stuck it in a closet and mostly forgot it existed for a few years save for the few times I thought about selling it for space until I started lurking around you bad influences again, realizing that these days it could definitely be fixed. Here's how it looks now:
(http://i.imgur.com/CAAMZMs.jpg)
The caps lock key is now dyed red, along with the escape and num lock to balance out the color. I originally tried using black idye on a different caps lock but as it turns out Dell's idea of 'black' is actually more of a cool black closer to dark blue; matching colors wasn't gonna happen unless Idye starts selling dye in Pantone shades. The red caps lock makes sense at least, for as we all know Caps Lock is cruise control for cool. The original black alps were ejected and replaced with Matias clicks. Admittedly they're not as nice as SKCM White but the lighter articulation balances it out for me. I've none around here at the moment for a direct comparison, but I think they sound a lot better in this case than they do any of Matias' own boards.
At the moment I have caps from 4 different keyboards on here, I don't think I'll bother with the sisyphean task of trying to color match all the white ones. That's just ALPS life.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 11 September 2016, 14:33:38
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 14:44:17
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 15:07:05
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 September 2016, 16:11:07
@Mattr567: Glad the vinegar is doing its work. If you are going to do much of this sort of thing, consider getting an ultrasonic cleaning bath. Upon a recommendation from XMIT, I got an iSonic P4820-WPB through Amazon for under $90 shipped. Thus far, I've tried it out on switch parts and keycaps, and it works great.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 16:42:35
Here is an example of a rough spot in a slider well. The two 'white' lines.
(http://i.imgur.com/fZSIWJR.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 17:57:40
So now I need a way to restore the plastic itself. I was thinking of soaking them in batches in hot water and trying to smooth them out with a piece of card or a toothpick while still hot.
Other ideas?
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 11 September 2016, 18:18:52
@Mattr567: Glad the vinegar is doing its work. If you are going to do much of this sort of thing, consider getting an ultrasonic cleaning bath. Upon a recommendation from XMIT, I got an iSonic P4820-WPB through Amazon for under $90 shipped. Thus far, I've tried it out on switch parts and keycaps, and it works great.I tried using a cheap ultrasonic cleaner to clean my TaoBao Blue ALPS and it didn't really make a difference at all. I think I just need to break down and buy a nice one like that at some point :p
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 18:25:57
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 18:39:41
I also need some help with restoring switches. I have some SKCM Whites that don't register, although they are assembled properly and feel normal. When I open the switch and manually press the dot in the contact leaf, it registers fine. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it a worn out top housing? Or is there maybe something wrong with contact leaf? In any case, did anyone ever manage to recover switches from this state?Yes actually. I had this happen once on my Parkard. I bent the little hammer/dot on the contact leaf back a bit and then blew a ton of air through it with compressed air. Fixed it right up.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 September 2016, 18:40:16
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 18:49:27
@Mattr567 can you clarify for me "bent the little hammer/dot on the contact leaf back a bit". I translate this in my head as pulling the contact leaf out a bit, blowing air between contact leaf and switch plate, and then let it settle back. Am I reading this right?
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 19:08:17
Thanks for sharing your experience, guys. The switches were extremely dirty to start with, and there is still some dirt in them on the bottom of the inside of the bottom housing, even after cleaning them with q-tip soaked in isopropanol (I may try vinegar as well), so I wouldn't be surprised if there is dirt on the switch plate as well.Oh, now I know what you mean by dot. You have to remove the contact leaf entirely and use a toothpick or something to bend the little hammer in the center away from the assembly a bit. Don't break it off. Then blow dust into the hammer/behind it.
@Mattr567 can you clarify for me "bent the little hammer/dot on the contact leaf back a bit". I translate this in my head as pulling the contact leaf out a bit, blowing air between contact leaf and switch plate, and then let it settle back. Am I reading this right?
(http://i.imgur.com/BTOJKvg.jpg?1)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 11 September 2016, 20:53:24
So the vinegar and denture tab bath's made a considerable difference, but it's still not there. At this point is it just bad plastic? Where do I go from here?Wait, did you add denture tabs to the vinegar? Oo
Here is an example of a rough spot in a slider well. The two 'white' lines.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fZSIWJR.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 September 2016, 23:08:32
No. I just mentioned them both since combined they made a big difference. That doesn't sound like a terrible idea imao :))So the vinegar and denture tab bath's made a considerable difference, but it's still not there. At this point is it just bad plastic? Where do I go from here?Wait, did you add denture tabs to the vinegar? Oo
Here is an example of a rough spot in a slider well. The two 'white' lines.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fZSIWJR.jpg)
Post by: Dokyun on Sun, 11 September 2016, 23:21:30
Now THAT looks very nice. Very tasteful, I like how you've gone with actual AT101 caps, too :) . I've always liked the font on most Alps boards (is it Helvetica?). Great job :) .
Thanks! Most of the alphas are actually from an SK-6000 ergo keyboard - which is also made by Siltek so they almost certainly came off the exact same tooling. The backslash and spacebar are from an actual white AT101 though, I'm not sure if those are more cream colored in comparison naturally or if they've just in the beginning stages of yellowing.
@Dokyun: That Dell looks nice. Is it the model with the black case, or did you paint a standard Dell AT101W black? For me, the red CapsLock would have to be Ctrl.
It's the black one. If I hadn't oafishly thrown away the old caps lock key when it broke I would've just kept the whole thing black and white. Ctrl instead of caps lock would be more balanced I agree, but that key hasn't broken yet ;) I actually dyed a scroll lock key as well to give the false allusion to there being some significance to the lock keys, but I feel adding any more than 3 red keys and the LEDs starts to make the color harmony more analogous with red instead of using it as a compliment...making it properly analogous would require dying a lot more caps and wouldn't look as good anyways.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 11 September 2016, 23:25:47
Now THAT looks very nice. Very tasteful, I like how you've gone with actual AT101 caps, too :) . I've always liked the font on most Alps boards (is it Helvetica?). Great job :) .
Thanks! Most of the alphas are actually from an SK-6000 ergo keyboard - which is also made by Siltek so they almost certainly came off the exact same tooling. The backslash and spacebar are from an actual white AT101 though, I'm not sure if those are more cream colored in comparison naturally or if they've just in the beginning stages of yellowing.@Dokyun: That Dell looks nice. Is it the model with the black case, or did you paint a standard Dell AT101W black? For me, the red CapsLock would have to be Ctrl.
It's the black one. If I hadn't oafishly thrown away the old caps lock key when it broke I would've just kept the whole thing black and white. Ctrl instead of caps lock would be more balanced I agree, but that key hasn't broken yet ;) I actually dyed a scroll lock key as well to give the false allusion to there being some significance to the lock keys, but I feel adding any more than 3 red keys and the LEDs starts to make the color harmony more analogous with red instead of using it as a compliment...making it properly analogous would require dying a lot more caps and wouldn't look as good anyways.
I was meaning to ask if the dyed keys were PBT or not. Were they actually ABS, and if so, what was your method for dyeing those? I dyed an ABS space bar once with RIT Dyemore, which was meant to be able to dye a wide variety of plastics, but it took a lot of work and the color consistency of Dyemore sucked. I'd sometimes get grey blacks, or brownish blacks, or blue blacks. It might've been due to the plastic though.
I tried using grey to dye an AEK cap as a test, and it came out yellowish brown. xP
Post by: Dokyun on Sun, 11 September 2016, 23:55:03
Supposedly RIT changed the formula of dyemore recently and it's no longer viable for dying caps, wonder if that's what happened to you? Grey on grey should never produce yellowish brown :p
Post by: E3E on Mon, 12 September 2016, 00:14:41
They're ABS. I used iDye Poly and a handheld strainer, dipping them into...I'd say slightly under a boil water for a few seconds at a time, pulling them out before they had a chance to begin warping. With ABS it seems the first dunk into the mixture is the most important, it saturates into the plastic predominantly on that pass I think. Subsequent dunks are mostly to make it more vibrant and hope any imperfections are corrected. They need to be squeaky clean as well, any oils or dirt on them will show up pretty clearly...I used my bare hands to drop them in after I cleaned them but I think in the future I'd probably use gloves. Overall the whole process only took a few minutes, it only takes a few plunges to get to the point of diminishing returns.
Supposedly RIT changed the formula of dyemore recently and it's no longer viable for dying caps, wonder if that's what happened to you? Grey on grey should never produce yellowish brown :p
It was pretty terrible! I went with RIT because it was a liquid formula. I was concerned a bit with even mixing with the powder-based ones, though looking back, it was probably more trivial than anything. I always used gloves and stainless ware for handling the caps and dyeing. Even bought a digital thermometer for it too!
I had to add acetone into the bath I used for the space bar I dyed for my Orion's black AT101 key cap set. It was not fun, nor easy.
Dyemore is SUPPOSED to work on plastics: it touts that it's for nylon, polyester, and acrylic, but it doesn't seem very reliable. I had heard that RIT changed their formula, but this seemed like it was purposed for plastics again so I thought it'd be fine.
Next time, I'm just going to go with iDye. It seems SO much better. Thanks for the insight, man! At least now that I know that iDye Poly is the way to go.
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 12 September 2016, 03:13:31
Oh, now I know what you mean by dot. You have to remove the contact leaf entirely and use a toothpick or something to bend the little hammer in the center away from the assembly a bit. Don't break it off. Then blow dust into the hammer/behind it.
Thanks, that clarified it. And it seems it worked! Well, almost. The key definitely registers now, but it's flakey sometimes. Still, it's progress, and I think it'll work better once I desolder the switches, take out the switch plate and do it properly.
To all you chemists watching, do you see any issue in putting the switch plate (without contact leaf), and bottom switch casing in vinegar bath?
Post by: jaffers on Mon, 12 September 2016, 03:58:16
SGI caps (mmmm that dyesub PBT goodness) + beautiful linear alps = sex
Fantastic board, would love to do a photo shoot with it but I need to retrobright the case and spacebar still
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 12 September 2016, 04:14:07
Post by: chyros on Mon, 12 September 2016, 04:51:41
Don't combine the two :p .No. I just mentioned them both since combined they made a big difference. That doesn't sound like a terrible idea imao :))So the vinegar and denture tab bath's made a considerable difference, but it's still not there. At this point is it just bad plastic? Where do I go from here?Wait, did you add denture tabs to the vinegar? Oo
Here is an example of a rough spot in a slider well. The two 'white' lines.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fZSIWJR.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 12 September 2016, 08:59:53
I don't know for linears, but I just put SGI keycaps on SKCM oranges. I just did it for the F keys, and I don't know if it's because they are so high up, but the sound is deeply pleasant. And I mean that in a literal sense - it is some heavy bass.
The keys within the confines of the function row sound pretty great because they're immediately surrounded by the plastic of the case on almost all sides. I've noticed this too, and it is pretty glorious.
Chunky thunk.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 12 September 2016, 10:41:32
Regarding Wang 725-3770 keyboards, as you might know, Bob Tibbetts has some of these to sell that are NIB. I bought one from him a few years ago. At that time, I think his price was $150 plus UPS shipping and insurance. Being brand new, they are of course in pristine condition. Here is the link to his site:
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 12 September 2016, 18:11:15
@Mattr567: I think what Chyros is getting at regarding his comment about not combining vinegar and denture tabs is that the two would tend to neutralize each other and produce more mineral salts in the process. The denture tabs contain an excess of base in the form of sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate. They already contain some citric acid that reacts with the sodium bicarbonate to produce effervescent bubbles of carbon dioxide gas when the tabs are dropped into water. The leftover sodium carbonate is a fairly strong base that helps with the cleaning, and there is some sodium percarbonate to act as an oxidizing agent, which can whiten some stains in plastic. If you were to add vinegar (which is diluted acetic acid), this would neutralize the sodium carbonate, thus negating the cleaning action of this base and negating the potential action of the acetic acid on the white residue you are hoping to dissolve.Oh, I see. being chemists you guys must know what your talking about :p
Regarding Wang 725-3770 keyboards, as you might know, Bob Tibbetts has some of these to sell that are NIB. I bought one from him a few years ago. At that time, I think his price was $150 plus UPS shipping and insurance. Being brand new, they are of course in pristine condition. Here is the link to his site:
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/
Those Wang's are too expensive and they come with SKCM Black's. The one I was looking at likely has Oranges (if not Salmons) and the guy wanted $60 but I got him down to $40. Until of course he decided he wouldn't ship :( I'll have to find another full size to SKCL Green swap. Also going to try to use the hot water method for those switch tops. Hope that works and I can get them back to proper condition. If anyone has any SKCL top housings laying around ill gladly pay for them.
Oh, now I know what you mean by dot. You have to remove the contact leaf entirely and use a toothpick or something to bend the little hammer in the center away from the assembly a bit. Don't break it off. Then blow dust into the hammer/behind it.
Thanks, that clarified it. And it seems it worked! Well, almost. The key definitely registers now, but it's flakey sometimes. Still, it's progress, and I think it'll work better once I desolder the switches, take out the switch plate and do it properly.
To all you chemists watching, do you see any issue in putting the switch plate (without contact leaf), and bottom switch casing in vinegar bath?
Hmm. My SKCM Blue has been working consistently for a while now. Maybe some more air or bending. Otherwise that could work.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 12 September 2016, 18:19:29
Regarding Wang 725-3770 keyboards, as you might know, Bob Tibbetts has some of these to sell that are NIB. I bought one from him a few years ago. At that time, I think his price was $150 plus UPS shipping and insurance. Being brand new, they are of course in pristine condition. Here is the link to his site:I was just back and forth with him within the past few weeks and he's lowered the price on those Wangs to $125, still pricey IMO.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 12 September 2016, 18:54:33
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58776.0
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 12 September 2016, 20:18:14
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232073377873
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 12 September 2016, 20:20:47
Whats this?Whatever it is Ill be willing to throw a bid at it if noone else wants it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232073377873
On the subject of mystery boards, the laptop I bought awhile back had thick alps made doubleshots with a really strange uniform profile and skfl metal top switches.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 12 September 2016, 20:22:56
Whatever it is Ill be willing to throw a bid at it if noone else wants it.Ooh, neat, those keycaps could definitely be handy for a future project :thumb:
On the subject of mystery boards, the laptop I bought awhile back had thick alps made doubleshots with a really strange uniform profile and skfl metal top switches.
Whats this?My gut feeling is linear Alps or some sort of a rubber dome. Seems unlikely that it's an early Topre board.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232073377873
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 12 September 2016, 21:49:11
BTW does anyone have any SKCM Brown or Green they'd be willing to trade/sell to me? Been looking for a while and i've come up empty. Really want some. Even considered trading my beloved Packard Bell T9102 w/ SKCM Blue for one of E3E's Xerox's or something but I realized in the long run i'd be losing something huge and rare i'd never be able to find again. Plus he would kill me if I took a solder iron anywhere near it :P
Using it right now actually now that I have my 6ft PS/2 extension cable. Before it could barely reach and it was starting to mess up the cable a bit.
One day.....
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:51:58
Post by: E3E on Tue, 13 September 2016, 08:59:36
To anyone who has tried them both, is there a difference in color of mod keycaps between beige and granite SGI bigfoots? I can't tell from pics online as white balance is an issue, so on some pics, granite mods look quite different in color than those that I have.
I have the beige set and yes, there is a difference. Granites are more of a grey color, I think quite grey, but I've never owned a Granite. The beige set is ugly because the plastic has this reddish hue. I'm not a fan at all, but then I guess I'm not the biggest fan of the SGI caps because of the font anyway.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 13 September 2016, 09:04:45
E3E, I certainly agree with you about the font. I don't like an Italic or Oblique font on keycaps. This is unfortunate, because some of the best-quality dye-sub PBT Alps-mount keycaps are to be found on various SGI and Apple boards, which use an Italic or Oblique font, respectively.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 09:12:09
Post by: E3E on Tue, 13 September 2016, 09:34:56
I have a Granite set, and I can attest to the mods being a rather cold gray, which I do not like. Given that I generally prefer warmer colors, if the Beige SGI has mods with a red hue, I would probably like these better.
E3E, I certainly agree with you about the font. I don't like an Italic or Oblique font on keycaps. This is unfortunate, because some of the best-quality dye-sub PBT Alps-mount keycaps are to be found on various SGI and Apple boards, which use an Italic or Oblique font, respectively.
Would you ever consider trading, Hypersphere? I've got a beige set and I've been curious about the Granite set myself. I prefer cooler colors, so I'm pretty much on the opposite end of the spectrum.
The chinese PBT caps I have on my Orion are the whitest caps I've ever seen that have been Alps mount. The next closest I've seen would be the Multistation PBT cylindricals, and the DocuTech caps, but both aren't as neutral as these. As an example, the closest space bar I found that matches the color is from an Acer 6011, but its hue of white makes it look slightly yellowed compared to the Chinese caps.
I'm curious to see how Granites might compare as far as the alphas go. They seem like they'll be a bit more grey from what I can tell, but white balance makes judging by photos a bit unreliable.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 13 September 2016, 10:12:14
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 10:43:41
Post by: E3E on Tue, 13 September 2016, 10:48:52
It would be useful for the rest of us (read: me :)) if anyone of you two had both set of keycaps in possession at the same time to take some comparison pics ;D
I actually have a partial set beyond the one I'm trying to trade with, so I could take comparison shots of the alphas and mods if Hypersphere agrees to the trade. :)
My beige set is very mint and has no shine at all, so it's a good set to use! I just don't have the space bar since I used it in a dyeing test. I don't need the space bar in return from HS, so if he's okay with just trading the caps sans the space bar, then we'd be good.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 13 September 2016, 12:36:29
(http://i.imgur.com/ey4OxpG.jpg)
My pictures are pretty terrible, but this gives you a good idea of the differing shades between various PBT sets.
The top photo is: SGI beige, Chinese uniform PBT cap
The bottom is: SGI Beige, AT101, IBM 5140, Chinese PBT, then Chinese PBT, SGI, AT101, IBM 5140.
Not compared are the AEK caps, IBM Multistation PBT, DocuTech, early Xerox 6085, and IBM P70 caps, but the Chinese caps are the whitest, more so than even Acer's ABS caps for the 6011.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 12:49:02
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 13 September 2016, 14:24:46
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 13 September 2016, 16:06:39
It would be a fun thing to do if you modify your switches. Would like to mod White Alps and make them purple. Zealpios!
Post by: E3E on Tue, 13 September 2016, 17:43:31
Great refrerence, thanks! Can you do the same with mods, where they differ from alphas?
Thanks! Yeah, I'll get a shot of the modifiers set up soon!
That Chinese set of yours is certainly handsome. I wonder what accounts for the degree of whiteness? Perhaps their formulation included some white pigment, such as Titanium Dioxide.
Thanks, Hypersphere. I really like the set too. Is PBT a translucent color when it's raw? If so then it'd have to be something along your lines of thought.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 19:11:19
I also won another white alps board, with a really strange layout and a touchpad. fun stuff!
Post by: E3E on Tue, 13 September 2016, 19:16:30
Won the mystery sony board, will update when I get it.
I also won another white alps board, with a really strange layout and a touchpad. fun stuff!
What ever happen to that laptop someone won a while back where the guy in that one video said they were "white Alps switches"? Did that ever get documented? Give us the goods!
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 19:22:50
Haha posted it awhile back. They were skfls with nice thick alps made doubleshots with a really strange uniform profile.Won the mystery sony board, will update when I get it.
I also won another white alps board, with a really strange layout and a touchpad. fun stuff!
What ever happen to that laptop someone won a while back where the guy in that one video said they were "white Alps switches"? Did that ever get documented? Give us the goods!
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 19:28:29
Here is the other board I won, looks like a cool thing to cut into a 60% with a strange bottom row.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 14 September 2016, 02:05:26
Haha posted it awhile back. They were skfls with nice thick alps made doubleshots with a really strange uniform profile.Won the mystery sony board, will update when I get it.
I also won another white alps board, with a really strange layout and a touchpad. fun stuff!
What ever happen to that laptop someone won a while back where the guy in that one video said they were "white Alps switches"? Did that ever get documented? Give us the goods!
Nice, man. At least you got some good caps out of it. Yeah, the uniform cylindrical profile is a very interesting profile that I've only really seen with Alps boards. Seen it in the Sharp PA-1000, and with these Chinese PBT caps.
Speaking of which. I recently modded the space bar off of one of the boards with the chinese PBT caps I have to be 7u, and let me tell you, it was a pain in the ass. It took HOURS, but because of the matching profile and white color, it feels like it was worth it.
(https://i.imgur.com/telIZvu.jpg)
WIP shots
(https://i.imgur.com/frzaoVzg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KhIPeNc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iFDymrC.jpg)
All you can see is a slight scar from the procedure to the very right. It came out very well, I think!
(https://i.imgur.com/1O4jwIZ.jpg)
This is the WIP bar next to the Acer space bar I was using. The lighting makes it hard to tell, but the Acer bar looks yellowed compared to this bar, and it has awful texture in comparison. I was happy to get rid of it.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 14 September 2016, 03:30:42
(https://i.imgur.com/0tl6TMJ.jpg)
I received the Chinese PBT boards in a trade, and some of them had broken key caps. Luckily, even though the stuff I'm using doesn't chemically bond to PBT, it can still repair the stems well enough to use.
So I modded the stem on the 1.75u Alt key that broke off to be off-set so I could put it on my Orion in the Caps Lock position.
Really, just for fun, but at least broken stems can be fixed!
(https://i.imgur.com/ThO77BC.jpg)
Sorry, I know I'm posting too much. :P I should head to bed soon.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:01:15
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Tellervision-clicky-Keyboard-Model-No-GP101CB-Ver-3-1-/331962089019?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=w6bkSV2vH4ZY9V%252FKBcp2XsyX9qA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Tellervision-clicky-Keyboard-Model-No-GP101CB-Ver-3-1-/331962089019?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=w6bkSV2vH4ZY9V%252FKBcp2XsyX9qA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)If these caps are double-shot, I would want to track one down for just that as well. Particularly because these caps could go onto a funky, RedScarf-esque layout I wanted to try building.
Here is the other board I won, looks like a cool thing to cut into a 60% with a strange bottom row.
@E3E That's coming along quite nicely, I think the 7u modifications were probably worth it
Also, did you happen to get a model number or any other identifying information about the board that you sourced those caps from? Do you have any pictures of it before you harvested the caps? I can't remember if you told us or not.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:17:24
I want to move a stem on stepped caps lock keycap to fit on a board with non-stepped caps lock key position. I was worried about cleanly cutting the stem in the first place as I was hoping to reuse it, but also there's an option to sacrifice another keycap, cut it completely, and then gain access to the stem. Now I don't know if I can take ABS stem and glue it to PBS keycap, and if I can do it with "plain" two-component epoxy that I have. Any help is appreciated.
Completely unrelated, that NeXT board I got, it has SKCM Creams :thumb: It's still not in my posession, but soon enough.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 14 September 2016, 07:48:17
Pretty sure theyre pad printed, I really just bought it for the switches and plate. there is another one currently on ebay for the same price from the same seller.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Tellervision-clicky-Keyboard-Model-No-GP101CB-Ver-3-1-/331962089019?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=w6bkSV2vH4ZY9V%252FKBcp2XsyX9qA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Tellervision-clicky-Keyboard-Model-No-GP101CB-Ver-3-1-/331962089019?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=w6bkSV2vH4ZY9V%252FKBcp2XsyX9qA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)If these caps are double-shot, I would want to track one down for just that as well. Particularly because these caps could go onto a funky, RedScarf-esque layout I wanted to try building.
Here is the other board I won, looks like a cool thing to cut into a 60% with a strange bottom row.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 14 September 2016, 10:12:14
@E3E That's coming along quite nicely, I think the 7u modifications were probably worth it
Thanks, man. Definitely feels pretty awesome to have modded a space bar to the point of functioning like an actual 7u Alps made space bar and retaining all of the texture on the top surface. It was painstaking but I'm happy with it!
It's a very obscure keyboard, but it's some kind of Alps integrated dome keyboard.
(http://i.imgur.com/62Df8Vj.jpg)
Here's the one with the caps I need to fix.
(http://i.imgur.com/KEwSdLU.jpg)
These are the only identifying features on the PCB, sadly.
@E3E That's exactly what I want to do. Can you share some more info on the stuff you used?
I want to move a stem on stepped caps lock keycap to fit on a board with non-stepped caps lock key position. I was worried about cleanly cutting the stem in the first place as I was hoping to reuse it, but also there's an option to sacrifice another keycap, cut it completely, and then gain access to the stem. Now I don't know if I can take ABS stem and glue it to PBS keycap, and if I can do it with "plain" two-component epoxy that I have. Any help is appreciated.
Completely unrelated, that NeXT board I got, it has SKCM Creams :thumb: It's still not in my posession, but soon enough.
Hmmm, how to snap it off clean? Use something to get a good grip on it and snap it off. Alps stems are feeble little things. :( When I did stem swaps though, I usually sacrificed another Alps key cap, but that's because I was mainly doing Cherry to Alps mods. Now, for my space bar, I used a space bar with the same profile that was grey so I could make sure the angles were perfect.
You can indeed glue an ABS stem to PBT. That's what I did for the space bar of my Hammer Alps 60% when converting it from Cherry to Alps. I used Loctite Ultra Control Gel for that job, but...
I'd recommend this stuff. https://www.amazon.com/Plast-aid-80400-Plastic-Repair-6-Ounce/dp/B004DFHSM6
You can get the smaller 1.5 ounce kit for about half that price, but I'd say get the big one. Also buy a glass dropper to apply the liquid to the resin powder more precisely.
Here are some reasons why this is better than epoxy or gel super glue for this purpose:
• You can use more or less resin to give more build to what you're working with. In other words, you can use it to make up for lost material or a stem that is not exactly flush if need be.
• It has a number of consistencies to work with. It starts off liquid, turns paste-like as it dries, finally more putty like, then fully hardens. You can control this and extend the drying time depending on how much liquid you add to the mix. It can set in as little as 5 minutes up to 15 or more depending on the ratio.
• It chemically bonds with things like acrylic and styrene/ABS and makes an incredibly strong joint. Otherwise, use more resin to make a strong mechanical bond. That's what I had to do with PBT since it does not react with PBT at all, like most things.
The only downside to trying to use an ABS stem with PBT is that you'll kind of be bonding the stuff to the ABS but not the PBT, so if you need to fix or rearrange it, it could be a little annoying.If this stuff gets on anything that it chemically bonds with, it's going to leave a mark, so make sure it's not on your hands when you're touching ABS caps.
Overall, the stuff is excellent. A thick epoxy would probably work too, but it takes ages to set, and even the 5 minute stuff takes a while (it feels soft for a good while after 5 minutes), in my experience. This has more benefits.
Also, let us know how you like the Creams. :)
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 14 September 2016, 10:34:37
Thanks, man. Definitely feels pretty awesome to have modded a space bar to the point of functioning like an actual 7u Alps made space bar and retaining all of the texture on the top surface. It was painstaking but I'm happy with it!Hmm, it's a shame there's so little information about it. Perhaps we'll find an intact specimen at some point or another. It's definitely an interesting board.
It's a very obscure keyboard, but it's some kind of Alps integrated dome keyboard.
Whats this?Whatever it is Ill be willing to throw a bid at it if noone else wants it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232073377873
Won the mystery sony board, will update when I get it.
When I saw this board, I remembered seeing it somewhere before but couldn't place it. Today I found it on Taobao again and, unfortunately, it seems like it's a membrane keyboard. Here are some pictures:
(http://i.imgur.com/cC0PQ2Y.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/oKg4fZe.png)
Perhaps you might still get something more interesting but I just thought I'd share.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 14 September 2016, 11:53:02
if it is domes, they still may have alps compatible keycaps, alot of dome with slider switches used alps stems.Thanks, man. Definitely feels pretty awesome to have modded a space bar to the point of functioning like an actual 7u Alps made space bar and retaining all of the texture on the top surface. It was painstaking but I'm happy with it!Hmm, it's a shame there's so little information about it. Perhaps we'll find an intact specimen at some point or another. It's definitely an interesting board.
It's a very obscure keyboard, but it's some kind of Alps integrated dome keyboard.Whats this?Whatever it is Ill be willing to throw a bid at it if noone else wants it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232073377873Won the mystery sony board, will update when I get it.
When I saw this board, I remembered seeing it somewhere before but couldn't place it. Today I found it on Taobao again and, unfortunately, it seems like it's a membrane keyboard. Here are some pictures:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cC0PQ2Y.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oKg4fZe.png)
Perhaps you might still get something more interesting but I just thought I'd share.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 14 September 2016, 12:10:45
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 14 September 2016, 12:53:04
Post by: atrere on Sat, 17 September 2016, 01:08:46
I get the hype about Alps now.
For a while, I thought Alps were crap, but it turned out the board I had with Alps sliders in the closet was a very terrible clone (Taiwanese Siig Minitouch), and I ended up ordering Orihalcon's Alps sampler pack, and was a bit blown away by the quality of the individual switches. It also gave me a nice sample set to figure out what I would want in an Alps keyboard.
It's my first 60%, and it's got orange switches with damped white sliders. This was done with the goal of making it as silent as a mechanical keyboard could possibly be, but I ran into a problem in that many of the switches produced a click on the upstroke, despite having tactile leaves and damped sliders. It appears that for some reason (perhaps metal fatigue and general wear?) that tactile leaves can deform slightly, in a way that I did not find visually distinct, to become inconsistently clicky.
The solution I used was extremely low-tech >.>
I cut out pieces of paper the width and twice the height of the tactile leaves, folded them down, and inserted them behind the leaves, which completely removed the upstroke click. A single layer of graph paper was not enough, but with the fold, it was enough. There's still the problem of the spacebar stabilizer, but I'm not sure I want to silence that. It provides a bit of aural punctuation.
(Also, both capslock and Right-Super (which is an FN layer) are lock switches. For some reason, a locking FN layer is the coolest thing to me. Turns WASD into arrows, QE into PgUp and PgDn, -+ into volume controls, P into play/pause, and <> to previous and next track. Everything I need for writing, really.)
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 17 September 2016, 01:11:43
The solution I used was extremely low-tech >.>This is actually really good information, I know what I'm going to try on the handful of switches on my AT101W that have an upstroke click :D
I cut out pieces of paper the width and twice the height of the tactile leaves, folded them down, and inserted them behind the leaves, which completely removed the upstroke click. A single layer of graph paper was not enough, but with the fold, it was enough. There's still the problem of the spacebar stabilizer, but I'm not sure I want to silence that. It provides a bit of aural punctuation.
Welcome to the club, I'm glad you understand the Alps hype now. The "I thought Alps were crap" bit made me cringe but I'm willing to look past it, haha.
EDIT: I just tried this and it works, Thanks!!
Post by: chyros on Sat, 17 September 2016, 07:00:20
The "I thought Alps were crap" bit made me cringe but I'm willing to look past it, haha.It's always like that :p . Either they haven't tried them, or they tried a crappy board :p . Of course there are people who genuinely don't like Alps even in great condition, but I've found an overwhelming majority of people who are exposed to them get hooked immediately. And for many of them, there's so much more out them to blow them away even more! :D
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 17 September 2016, 10:11:31
Also, I could post this in the market but this seems like the more appropriate place, does anyone have two or three extra SKCM Brown switches? I'm planning to put together a 60% and would like a few extra switches for the Windows keys. I would be happy to pay for any switches people could offer up, thanks! Already sent a few PMs out about this but haven't turned anything up yet :(
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 17 September 2016, 12:42:00
Man this community is so awesome :D
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 17 September 2016, 13:19:53
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 17 September 2016, 14:49:42
****ty pad printed yellowed abs caps too. wasnt worth the money honestly.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 17 September 2016, 15:10:23
Post by: E3E on Sat, 17 September 2016, 15:14:33
I think it'd be a good idea to document all these variants, but photos aren't a reliable way to really measure the differences unless there's a good control.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 17 September 2016, 15:17:37
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 17 September 2016, 16:26:23
The board is very clean with no corrosion on the plate. It also feels very solid. Unfortunately, there is one key that responds only intermittently -- the Backspace/Pipe key to the right of the shortened Right Shift. This is particularly unwanted, because I plan to use this key as Fn. I am hoping that the key will become fully functional after cleaning -- including using a contact cleaner.
I am also considering a click/tactile mod, but I first I want to test out the board thoroughly with unmodified switches.
Suggestions welcome for a possible click/tactile mod. I am not sure which components (slider, top housing, spring, tactile/click leaf) would be compatible with the bottom housing and switchplate in yellow Alps.
Some potential donor Alps or Alps-clone switches that I have available include black, blue, damped cream, undamped cream, white, damped white, Matias Click, and Matias Quiet.
I did have quite a few brown Alps in IBM 5140 boards, but I've been selling these, and the last one is currently collecting bids (I found brown Alps a bit too stiff for prolonged typing).
Post by: chyros on Sat, 17 September 2016, 17:09:39
In today's mail I received a Zenith 163-73. It has yellow Alps and dye-sub PBT caps. It is XT/AT-selectable via a DIP switch on the back of the keyboard. I am typing on it now in AT mode. The yellow switches are quite smooth and reported as slightly heavier than green Alps, but I have not yet tried them side by side.Try to clean the switchplate, maybe compressed air will help as well. If cleaning efforts fail you can replace the switch, or even just the switchplate.
The board is very clean with no corrosion on the plate. It also feels very solid. Unfortunately, there is one key that responds only intermittently -- the Backspace/Pipe key to the right of the shortened Right Shift. This is particularly unwanted, because I plan to use this key as Fn. I am hoping that the key will become fully functional after cleaning -- including using a contact cleaner.
I am also considering a click/tactile mod, but I first I want to test out the board thoroughly with unmodified switches.
Suggestions welcome for a possible click/tactile mod. I am not sure which components (slider, top housing, spring, tactile/click leaf) would be compatible with the bottom housing and switchplate in yellow Alps.
Some potential donor Alps or Alps-clone switches that I have available include black, blue, damped cream, undamped cream, white, damped white, Matias Click, and Matias Quiet.
I did have quite a few brown Alps in IBM 5140 boards, but I've been selling these, and the last one is currently collecting bids (I found brown Alps a bit too stiff for prolonged typing).
To mod, you'll need to swap the top housings as the cutout obstructs the tactile/click leaf. With your selection of tactile switches at hand I wouldn't do a tactile mod, as none of those are particularly smoothly tactile, and I think the tactile leaf is to blame for it. I think Matias leaves fit inside, but the feeling is a bit different from Alps switches. For a click-mod you can use white leaves, or you can click-mod the tactile leaves (see my video on how to do that). Again you can also use Matias leaves.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 17 September 2016, 17:16:01
Some potential donor Alps or Alps-clone switches that I have available include black, blue, damped cream, undamped cream, white, damped white, Matias Click, and Matias Quiet.
With your selection of tactile switches at hand I wouldn't do a tactile mod, as none of those are particularly smoothly tactile, and I think the tactile leaf is to blame for it.
Blue and Cream switches are smooth though! At least in my opinion. :P I think either would be a fine choice. Both use tall switch plates as opposed to the SKCL Yellow's short plates, but it shouldn't cause much of an issue.
Yeah, like Chyros says, you will need SKCM top housings for the mod, but that should be obvious.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 17 September 2016, 17:28:29
Oh yeah, I missed SKCM Cream. You can use blue leaves too, but if anything those are quite valuable as originals. It might be better to just solder in the blues as a whole.Some potential donor Alps or Alps-clone switches that I have available include black, blue, damped cream, undamped cream, white, damped white, Matias Click, and Matias Quiet.
With your selection of tactile switches at hand I wouldn't do a tactile mod, as none of those are particularly smoothly tactile, and I think the tactile leaf is to blame for it.
Blue and Cream switches are smooth though! At least in my opinion. :P I think either would be a fine choice. Both use tall switch plates as opposed to the SKCL Yellow's short plates, but it shouldn't cause much of an issue.
Yeah, like Chyros says, you will need SKCM top housings for the mod, but that should be obvious.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 17 September 2016, 17:40:33
Alps boards provide a fascinating playground filled with surprises and modding options. I've just now dismantled the Zenith and removed the keycaps for cleaning, although this board as I received it from eBay was quite clean already. The yellow stems stand out nicely against the matte black background of the plate.
Although some of the bits and pieces of the board were new to me, its construction has been well documented with photos in the DT wiki:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Zenith_163-73
The Zenith is very nicely put together with some interesting extras, such as a layer of electrical shielding between the case and PCB. The electronic components on the top front of the PCB are so attractive against the cream-colored background, I am tempted to use the keyboard without a case or to make a transparent one. The underside of the green PCB is also unusually pristine.
This keyboard also holds the record among keyboards I have owned for the highest number of stabilized switches -- 12 in all, including the spacebar. With the exception of the "square J" Return/Enter key, which binds if pressed on the ascending portion of the "J", all the stabilized keys work smoothly and quietly with no binding or rattling.
Although I would prefer a standard US ANSI layout, this Zenith has some characteristics that lend itself to efficient remapping in a quasi-HHKB style. These features include the extra-large Right Bracket that can serve as Backspace and the split Right Shift that provides a potential Fn key.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 17 September 2016, 18:25:19
(http://i.imgur.com/x82yE68.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/s88r0oR.jpg)
The early DocuTechs had them.
Funny, that the late DocuTechs had amber/orange PCBs and a dull green mask. The early 6085s had an amber PCB and dull green mask too, while the later ones were white like this one with a vivid green mask.
(http://i.imgur.com/lO7gU9n.jpg)
I don't like the amber colored PCBs as much, aesthetically.
The Zenith seems nice. A rare source for a 1.75u shift key and the only one I can think of in beige that would go well with an AT101 PBT set.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 17 September 2016, 18:26:12
This keyboard also holds the record among keyboards I have owned for the highest number of stabilized switches -- 12 in all, including the spacebar. With the exception of the "square J" Return/Enter key, which binds if pressed on the ascending portion of the "J", all the stabilized keys work smoothly and quietly with no binding or rattling.Yes, Zenith were very fond of stabilisers xD . There's 13 in my ZKB-2R, which also replaced the rod stabiliser with another wire one, hence the extra. Well, it's stabilised all right! xD
Post by: E3E on Sat, 17 September 2016, 18:35:40
This keyboard also holds the record among keyboards I have owned for the highest number of stabilized switches -- 12 in all, including the spacebar. With the exception of the "square J" Return/Enter key, which binds if pressed on the ascending portion of the "J", all the stabilized keys work smoothly and quietly with no binding or rattling.Yes, Zenith were very fond of stabilisers xD . There's 13 in my ZKB-2R, which also replaced the rod stabiliser with another wire one, hence the extra. Well, it's stabilised all right! xD
The ridiculous thing with Alps is that keys down to 1.5u had the ability to be stabilized. I've usually only seen it done down to 1.75u. I forget if I've ever seen a 1.5u key stabilized. It'd be funny to see a custom plate support stabilization for all keys down to 1.5u, haha.
What makes it more amusing to me is that Alps keys work remarkably well without stabilization for the most part, aside from the space bar and some of the more odd enter keys (too lazy to check out a 2.75u right shift). They're pretty usable. Alps was just being a little OCD about stabilization. Nothing wrong with that though. :P
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 17 September 2016, 18:55:49
Post by: E3E on Sat, 17 September 2016, 19:07:37
The stabilizers in the Toshiba T1200 "laptop" are amazing -- they look like steel rods rather than wires. Very serious stability!
Ohh, can you take any pictures of those (or share any that you know of)? They SOUND amazing.
Post by: atrere on Sat, 17 September 2016, 20:37:09
As you may have seen in the typing video earlier, the space bar was the loudest key by several orders of magnitude.
I could have lubed the stabilizer, but before I busted out the Teflon spray, I had another idea. There are clips on the underside of the space bar that hold the wire stabilizer in place, and besides the stabilization plunger, they are the lowest elements on the bar.
So I cut some of the sticking rubber foot material that came with my Sentraq case down to size, and affixed it to each of the clips. Additionally, I took an O-ring from another keyboard, twisted it double, and stuck it on the base of the stabilizing peg on the keycap.
This is the result:
I am unsure as to whether or not I should do anything about the other stabilized keys, but none of them were as egregious as the space bar.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 17 September 2016, 20:45:15
Some more research for anyone pursuing the goal of silent Alps -Sounds good!
As you may have seen in the typing video earlier, the space bar was the loudest key by several orders of magnitude.
I could have lubed the stabilizer, but before I busted out the Teflon spray, I had another idea. There are clips on the underside of the space bar that hold the wire stabilizer in place, and besides the stabilization plunger, they are the lowest elements on the bar.
So I cut some of the sticking rubber foot material that came with my Sentraq case down to size, and affixed it to each of the clips. Additionally, I took an O-ring from another keyboard, twisted it double, and stuck it on the base of the stabilizing peg on the keycap.
This is the result:
I am unsure as to whether or not I should do anything about the other stabilized keys, but none of them were as egregious as the space bar.
Post by: waqar on Sun, 18 September 2016, 20:36:27
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 18 September 2016, 23:00:47
Good choice? ;)
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 18 September 2016, 23:11:00
So instead of buying a $70 5140 I decided i'm going to buy a Pingmaster. What are my conversion options? I really like Chyros's layout and want to use it.Ping masters are definitely different, I have a certain fondness for mine but I have never used it... Mostly because I never got an adapter. Was going to build my own with a Teensy but I know Hasu sells them. I was lucky enough to get mine when the NIB Japanese ones were still on eBay :D
Good choice? ;)
Post by: Dokyun on Mon, 19 September 2016, 00:07:13
So instead of buying a $70 5140 I decided i'm going to buy a Pingmaster. What are my conversion options? I really like Chyros's layout and want to use it.
Good choice? ;)
Hasu's converter will make it work with the speaker...it can do a pretty loud beep, actually. You have to plug it into the converter first before you plug the USB end into a computer, after that there's about a 5-10 second initialization period you gotta sit through before it will start registering input. IIRC Hasu's notes indicated that this is actually part of the 4704 protocol specification.
I dont pull mine out too often, but I thought the experience of being able to unbox a new old stock IBM keyboard from the 80s was worth the price of admission alone.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 19 September 2016, 02:08:46
So instead of buying a $70 5140 I decided i'm going to buy a Pingmaster. What are my conversion options? I really like Chyros's layout and want to use it.Mine came pre-converter thankfully, it's got a Soarer's on it. The Soarer's comes with a bizarre layout by default but you can reprogram it — I might still have the file lying around if you're interested :) . The switches are a little stiff for my taste, but they're really smooth and I type pretty fast on it. Good choice, it's a nice board! :)
Good choice? ;)
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 07:47:42
(http://i.imgur.com/16RjCq2.jpg)
Don't be too jealous though, about two thirds of those blues are not actually working :/ I'll have to disassemble the switch plates, clean them, and see if that helps.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 19 September 2016, 08:00:01
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 08:11:18
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 September 2016, 08:19:30
I posted this on DT, but for those who are not active there, just a small treat.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/16RjCq2.jpg)
Don't be too jealous though, about two thirds of those blues are not actually working :/ I'll have to disassemble the switch plates, clean them, and see if that helps.
Are those SKCM Oranges? They look so red in the picture.
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 08:28:27
Are those SKCM Oranges? They look so red in the picture.
Yes they are. They are quite saturated in color, but not quite like in that picture. I guess iPhone camera decided to make everything "better".
Post by: yasuo on Mon, 19 September 2016, 08:59:21
Post by: atrere on Mon, 19 September 2016, 11:25:40
So instead of buying a $70 5140 I decided i'm going to buy a Pingmaster. What are my conversion options? I really like Chyros's layout and want to use it.Extremely good choice. I'm typing this reply on my Pingmaster right now. I prefer the SKCC Greens to the loose SKCM Green and even Honeywell Hall effect switches that I've tried. Having a sculpted spherical profile, doubleshots, and BNIB IBM/Alps quality all in one makes it, in my opinion, one of the best keyboards money can buy. Certainly the best deal out there in the world of vintage keyboards. That also might be because I'm a total Japanophile and I love the legends.
Good choice? ;)
Things to watch out for: It will take your hands some time to get used to the extra row of characters between '/ and Shift/Enter. Try not to map anything too destructive to the key to the right of the 1u backspace (I may have mapped that to undo/redo - I live dangerously). And learn to love the ping.
It's one of my three daily drivers, and though I mainly use it for gaming, it's refreshing for when I want to type on something that feels and sounds more refined than the more workhorse-like Model F.
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 11:41:11
When I compared them to whites, one obvious difference was the slider material. White sliders are more slippery, but blues (even with lube removed) feel smoother. However, looking at the spring and contact leaf, I didn't see any difference (granted, I'm not known to have the keenest eye for details). If I were to transplant blues to another switch housing, would sliders, springs and leaves be enough?
What I'm thinking about is, putting blue parts in SKCM cream housings which have long grey switchplate (the same as my blues). To all those in the audience that are screaming, no, these would not be creams from the NeXT keyboard :). They would come from a non-working Canon typewriter.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 19 September 2016, 13:36:20
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 15:23:06
(http://i.imgur.com/DFwxDAq.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 September 2016, 15:26:50
Appreciate this boys :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/DFwxDAq.jpg)
Matias white blanks, eh? They look quite nice. :cool:
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 15:29:16
Unfortunately it really highlights how yellowed the case is. Any suggestions for colors to paint the case?Appreciate this boys :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/DFwxDAq.jpg)
Matias white blanks, eh? They look quite nice. :cool:
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:03:48
White goes good with almost anything, that being said I think it would look good in black or white.Unfortunately it really highlights how yellowed the case is. Any suggestions for colors to paint the case?Appreciate this boys :DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/DFwxDAq.jpg)
Matias white blanks, eh? They look quite nice. :cool:
You could also retr0brite but I believe that the plastic in general is a slightly off-white so it still wouldn't look perfect.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:11:40
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:13:44
@mike52787: You might try charcoal gray or graphite so that the difference from the white keycaps would not be as stark as it would be with black.+1 to this, I like this idea. Industrial Gray could be interesting as well if you could find a suitable paint. I'd also consider sticker-bombing it or hydro-dipping it.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:33:19
That said, my first thought was a sterile-looking all-white, which would be kind of stunning for a big ol' behmoth like that.
Go for the charcoal though! Oh, you could even do a dual tone kind of thing. Charcoal top and white metal back plate. That'd be sliiiick.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:36:28
I agree with hypersphere. I think charcoal grey, like a nice modern, cool grey, would go fantastic in contrast with the pure white key caps.Well, Ill soon be disassembling this baby to swap in the SKCM Creams I bought from MandrewDavis, so when its open and desoldered, I ll paint the plate. Ive heard that omnikey pcbs are a pain in the ass to remove due to the soldered bolts, but I had good luck removing the bolts on my avant prime.
That said, my first thought was a sterile-looking all-white, which would be kind of stunning for a big ol' behmoth like that.
Go for the charcoal though! Oh, you could even do a dual tone kind of thing. Charcoal top and white metal back plate. That'd be sliiiick.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:40:18
I agree with hypersphere. I think charcoal grey, like a nice modern, cool grey, would go fantastic in contrast with the pure white key caps.Well, Ill soon be disassembling this baby to swap in the SKCM Creams I bought from MandrewDavis, so when its open and desoldered, I ll paint the plate. Ive heard that omnikey pcbs are a pain in the ass to remove due to the soldered bolts, but I had good luck removing the bolts on my avant prime.
That said, my first thought was a sterile-looking all-white, which would be kind of stunning for a big ol' behmoth like that.
Go for the charcoal though! Oh, you could even do a dual tone kind of thing. Charcoal top and white metal back plate. That'd be sliiiick.
Good luck. :D Oh nice. White keys, cream switches, charcoal bezel, white back panel. Reminds me of piano keys or an ice cream sandwich.
Either way, however you decide to go through with the customization, I'm looking forward to seeing it. :)
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:44:30
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 September 2016, 16:56:43
Off the topic of my omnikey, I recieved my granite today and I also recieved the sony mystery board. Rubberdomes -_- The granite caps are so beautiful though, I know the font is subjective, but I love it!
One of my first Alps keyboards was an AEK, and as the font on SGIs reminds me of the font on AEK caps, I was initially attracted to SGI caps quite a bit until my view flipped on both AEK and SGI caps and I began to dislike them, haha.
They're both good, high quality keysets, but just not in my tastes.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 19 September 2016, 17:38:10
For me, the AEK caps have four strikes against them -- the orientation of the F-key row, the profile, the D and K homing keys instead of the usual F and J homing keys, and the oblique font.
The SGI caps have only one feature that I don't like -- the Italic font.
However, I am also not fond of the color of either set of caps -- usually a cold gray, although apparently some of the SGI sets are more of a beige tone.
The SGI caps also seem to have two varieties of font weights -- one heavier and one lighter. I prefer the heavier weight.
It's difficult to find a good-looking standard US ANSI set of keycaps for Alps-mount switches in dye-sub PBT or even in doubleshot ABS. I usually end up using alphanumeric dye-sub PBT caps from the IBM 5140 and blank black ABS mods plus spacebar from Matias.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 20 September 2016, 01:49:59
Ive heard that omnikey pcbs are a pain in the ass to remove due to the soldered bolts, but I had good luck removing the bolts on my avant prime.
Oh, yes they are. One of my Omnikeys had only one bolt soldered, so I was lucky there. Another one has all the bolts soldered. So, you better open it and check. The technique I used in the end is, that I melted solder on the top of the bolt a bit (you need a good soldering iron for that, as that amount of solder and the metal PCB all dissipate heat from the contact point really quickly) to make a piloting hole, and then I used a 3mm boring bit and drilled the top of the bolt to dettach head of the bolt which is on the PCB, from the rest of the bolt in the plate. I then used a heat gun to remove the head part from the PCB, and just enough of the bolt was peeking out of the plate, to just unscrew it with pliers.
As for SGI/Apple keycaps, I personally love them. But, as noted earlier, that cold grey in the SGI makes them hard to match. And rotated top row of Apple's keycaps makes them suitable for 60% only. Legend position on Apple's keycaps is also a bit strange, and I still don't know what to think of it.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 20 September 2016, 07:22:21
New keycap set from evangs on reddit, will be available in alps.
It's DSA, presumably abs and presumably massdrop
Edit: confirmed abs and not massdrop
There is an IC here on GH
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 20 September 2016, 07:25:21
http://i.imgur.com/BEDjCIj.pngAh, so they are selling Lightcycle outside of just the MiniVan... Let's get the hype train rolling, guess I'll need to build a board to use this set on.
New keycap set from evangs on reddit, will be available in alps.
It's DSA, presumably abs and presumably massdrop
Post by: E3E on Tue, 20 September 2016, 07:53:38
http://i.imgur.com/BEDjCIj.png
New keycap set from evangs on reddit, will be available in alps.
It's DSA, presumably abs and presumably massdrop
Oh no, my wallet.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 20 September 2016, 08:05:58
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 20 September 2016, 09:48:44
Post by: WarCommand on Tue, 20 September 2016, 11:20:12
If the Alps set is DSA profile, I will pass. I cannot type on a flat profile. I need a sculpted profile, both for typing and aesthetics.+1. DSA is miserable to type on for me. Set looks great though.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 20 September 2016, 12:22:38
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 22 September 2016, 18:24:11
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 22 September 2016, 18:45:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 22 September 2016, 19:28:13
Pics from a while ago.
(http://i.imgur.com/z1KFZWz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CSGkeVj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tXHvmsE.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 01:21:02
While on topic of SGI, I thought that all off them had that metal weight inside, but when I opened my up, it looks mostly the same as AT-101W. :(
(http://i.imgur.com/gI7oC7D.jpg?1)
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 23 September 2016, 07:05:52
I thought that all off them had that metal weight inside,
In my experience only the early ones had the weight bars. You can move the bar into later ones, but you have to grind down the flutes on the center post first. When I made my 2 black Dell cases my "prime" AT101s, I added weight bars from 2 older beige models.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 07:13:15
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 23 September 2016, 07:21:52
Does the actual model matter as well (041-0136-001 vs 9500900) or is it just the vintage?
I really don't know, I did not pay attention that well.
I have only had 2 bars, and I am sure that they came from AT101s, not AT101Ws.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 23 September 2016, 10:38:29
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 11:33:29
I wouldn't say there is any chance of pins piercing it because it's relatively thin and has a layer of basically thick paper on the other side, so it is flexible enough, yet strong too.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 23 September 2016, 14:33:28
IIRC they only came with '97SK models, possibly also '95SK ones (can't remember off the top of my head).
Does the actual model matter as well (041-0136-001 vs 9500900) or is it just the vintage?
I really don't know, I did not pay attention that well.
I have only had 2 bars, and I am sure that they came from AT101s, not AT101Ws.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 14:46:29
Post by: waqar on Fri, 23 September 2016, 15:01:09
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 23 September 2016, 15:10:45
new layout with ALPS build. http://imgur.com/a/6OyN9That's quite slick, I dig it. Did you handwire that all or did you make a PCB?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 September 2016, 15:28:40
new layout with ALPS build. http://imgur.com/a/6OyN9
Sleeek~ Did you build it?
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 15:34:00
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 September 2016, 15:52:19
Just got 2 NeXTs worth of SKCM Creams in the mail. Thanks @MandrewDavis <3
Likewise! And some caps.
Thanks man! I've been bad with getting your switches out, but I'll do that soon. :-X
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 23 September 2016, 16:43:49
Also looking for tips on how to remove the retaining clips on the flip-out feet and then replacing them after painting the plastic parts.
Thanks!
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 September 2016, 20:47:30
You guys ever heard of Keyboard?
They're a professional manufacturer of keyboard!
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 21:02:32
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 21:08:19
Skcm creams + Northgate omnikey 101+ matias thin abs caps= the most orgasmic typing sound ive ever heard.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 23 September 2016, 21:13:34
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 21:17:33
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 23 September 2016, 21:23:37
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 23 September 2016, 22:16:12
Just got 2 NeXTs worth of SKCM Creams in the mail. Thanks @MandrewDavis <3
Likewise! And some caps.
Thanks man! I've been bad with getting your switches out, but I'll do that soon. :-X
Glad they have found a good homes! I was going to clean the caps, but after desoldering about 5 boards, I was about over the whole thing.
Anyway, no rush on sending out the samples. I think I have already found my favorites, need to try SKCM browns to see if they take the top spot!
@Mike You weren't kidding about the sound, Alps are just so good at doing that :D
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 24 September 2016, 00:15:15
Post by: E3E on Sat, 24 September 2016, 00:42:14
Local AT101W for $10, should I buy? Then I can part out the SGI I guess and mount them SKCM White Damp's in it and or sell them if I decide to keep the Black's for whatever reason and save $50. SGI caps can be $$. Plus its nice to not have 2 of the exact boards in a way.
The AT101W has very poor key caps, but other than that, it wouldn't be a bad idea.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 24 September 2016, 03:47:26
The ****ty mic I usually use doesent even begin to capture the sound of these babies. take a listen. sounds even better in person.Sounds a bit similar to an AEK, would you say that's a comparable sound?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 24 September 2016, 08:30:11
The ****ty mic I usually use doesent even begin to capture the sound of these babies. take a listen. sounds even better in person.Thanks for posting the audio clip. It's difficult to interpret without calibrating the ear to your mic setup with a comparison to a more familiar keyboard recorded with the mic and keyboard in the same relative positions to each other. But that's a hassle, and if Chyros thinks the sound is similar to an AEK, that's good enough for me.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S)
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sat, 24 September 2016, 09:23:21
It would suck if we could only get new PBT alps keycaps through a group buy
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 24 September 2016, 10:55:15
Post by: E3E on Sat, 24 September 2016, 12:25:15
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 24 September 2016, 13:36:01
The ****ty mic I usually use doesent even begin to capture the sound of these babies. take a listen. sounds even better in person.Yeah, it's really hard to get a nice keyboard recording with ****ty microphones. I have had bad results in the past and, in an attempt to replicate them, I just made another recording of some Blue Alps. You can give it a listen here (https://instaud.io/yjD) but it definitely doesn't do them any justice :p
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1w89iBxTr8S)
I had an AEK, and the case did have this great bassy sound. It's hard to tell if it sounds all that similar in your clip though. Hmm. Cream tactiles do have a great sound to them either way.Yeah, I really liked my AEK... before I tore it apart to put the switches into an AT101W. It's hard to say which one I liked more, to be honest. Probably the AT101W just because it has a more common layout and interface.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 15:10:40
Also reminds me I still need to find a new PCB for it so I can get the LED backlighting going. Been almost a year. Red Backlight with these caps would look awsome :) Probably end up buying a used MTS and then selling off the parts I don't need like switches. I royally ****ed this one up :( At least I learned a lot and I have had many successful soldering jobs since, and it works at the very least with a lot of handwiring. Still awful to look at lol.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 25 September 2016, 16:02:50
Pulled out my V60 MTS w/ SKCL Green wearing the IBM Multistation caps and I forgot how nice it is. Get's me excited for the Pingmaster, it comes tomorrow.SKCL green and SKCC are strongly related, but still feel quite different IMO. I found SKCC switches to have a distinct buttery feeling that SKCL don't have, and the weighting is different. That's not to say SKCC is more smooth, it's just buttery. Maybe when you get your Pingmaster you'll find something similar.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 25 September 2016, 19:23:04
I've several reasons for asking. The layout is actually not that bad, especially if you are inclined, as I am, to remap it to a semblance of a HHKB layout. For this, the Print Screen key is ideally placed as the Fn key, Right Ctrl is already where it belongs, and the oversized Right Bracket serves as Backspace. For remapping, I am using Orihalcon's internal Soarer's Converter, and I installed a flush-mount micro-USB connector in the rear of the bottom part of the case.
Unfortunately, the backward L Return key ruins it for me. I tend to hit the Return on the left edge, but I find that the Return key binds somewhat unless it is hit in the center of the lower part. This board could work beautifully if it only had a standard ANSI Return, and if it had that, the Right Bracket could be reduced to 1.00 unit and there would be room for the usual Backslash, which I would then use as Backspace.
Of course, I am essentially asking for a standard US ANSI layout, and I might as well get the bad switches working in my LE DC-3014. However, I do like the form factor of the DC-2014, and its acoustics are better than those of the DC-3014. The DC-2014 chassis imparts a Topre-like "thock" to some of the keys -- especially the Backspace (which I have remapped as Backslash).
On the other hand, although the doubleshot ABS caps on the DC-2014 are very nice indeed, I prefer the feel of PBT. I could replace all the alphas with PBT except the oversized Right Bracket (which I've remapped as Backspace -- and I use this a lot!), but the mods would need to stay native because of the unique layout.
I've made a couple of other modifications, including swapping out the slider and click leaf on the Spacebar switch for the same parts from a Matias Quiet switch. I also put some foam pads on the top plate where the Spacebar stabilizer inserts hit the plate. This calms and quiets the Spacebar immensely.
My other revisions included painting the bottom half of the case a graphite color using SEM Color Coat and painting the top shell a deep blue using VHT vinyl dye. I decided to experiment with this case, because I botched the job removing the Leading Edge logo badge. Fortunately, Wingpad has come to the rescue and will be sending me a spare case with an intact logo. Now I have had the opportunity to try three types of paints and four different colors on plastic keyboard cases. The VHT product bills itself as a penetrating vinyl dye, but I've already managed to scratch it (luckily on the back, which is normally hidden from view). The SEM paint had a slight tendency to run, and the coverage looked a bit uneven. I got the best results with Dupli-Color vinyl & fabric spray.
One other thing I noticed -- I use an Iogear KM switch as part of my method for sharing keyboards among computers. When I switched it momentarily to an empty port while ensuring that all the caps were seated properly on the DC-2014, when I switched back to the active computer, none of the keys would register. I tried connecting and reconnecting to no avail. I finally had to reboot to get the keyboard to register. I suppose this could be a problem at various points -- the keyboard, the internal Soarer's Converter, the KM switch, or the USB hub.
Future options I'm considering include transplanting blue Alps into a standard US ANSI chassis, such as a Northgate Omnikey 101, top- modding the white Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 to orange Alps (what combination of slider, leaf, and spring would be best here?), and doing a custom build 60% with blue or orange Alps.
Yes, I know -- first world problems! Nevertheless, suggestions welcome!
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 19:29:39
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 25 September 2016, 19:36:47
Who among us actually uses his Leading Edge DC-2014 as opposed to putting it into a coma and harvesting its blue Alps switches?I killed two of them... so I could do this:
Future options I'm considering include transplanting blue Alps into a standard US ANSI chassis, such as a Northgate Omnikey 101, top- modding the white Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 to orange Alps (what combination of slider, leaf, and spring would be best here?), and doing a custom build 60% with blue or orange Alps.I already built the 60% and I'll transfer the remaining switches into an Omnikey 101 when I eventually get one. I am also planning on building a 104-key Brown Alps keyboard at some point or another - probably cutting an acrylic sandwich-style case and using the PCB from an AT101W. Why go through all that trouble? I want to use the DSA Lightcycle keycaps in a modern layout that's not a 60% and they use Cherry stabs which means I don't have any options here. Perhaps there's a rare Ortek or Chicony keyboard but I'm not particularly fond of the aesthetics of either brand.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 19:50:37
I already built the 60% and I'll transfer the remaining switches into an Omnikey 101 when I eventually get one. I am also planning on building a 104-key Brown Alps keyboard at some point or another - probably cutting an acrylic sandwich-style case and using the PCB from an AT101W. Why go through all that trouble? I want to use the DSA Lightcycle keycaps in a modern layout that's not a 60% and they use Cherry stabs which means I don't have any options here. Perhaps there's a rare Ortek or Chicony keyboard but I'm not particularly fond of the aesthetics of either brand.What do you think about the monterey k104? It has a pretty modern layout, all but the bigass enter. I have modded a BAE board to ansi enter and 1.75u backslash. Possibly use a leeku mx/alps pcb if you can find one, I still havent forund one and actually gave up looking. The only lead I got was from alienman82, and it was in china and reasonably overpriced.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 25 September 2016, 19:55:34
I already built the 60% and I'll transfer the remaining switches into an Omnikey 101 when I eventually get one. I am also planning on building a 104-key Brown Alps keyboard at some point or another - probably cutting an acrylic sandwich-style case and using the PCB from an AT101W. Why go through all that trouble? I want to use the DSA Lightcycle keycaps in a modern layout that's not a 60% and they use Cherry stabs which means I don't have any options here. Perhaps there's a rare Ortek or Chicony keyboard but I'm not particularly fond of the aesthetics of either brand.What do you think about the monterey k104? It has a pretty modern layout, all but the bigass enter. I have modded a BAE board to ansi enter and 1.75u backslash. Possibly use a leeku mx/alps pcb if you can find one, I still havent forund one and actually gave up looking. The only lead I got was from alienman82, and it was in china and reasonably overpriced.
Take the case you like most--pop an ANSI layout PCB in there. Unless the dimensions are very different, it should be fine. Actually, the later model FAME keyboards and NTC 6251 keyboards are both examples of vintage keyboards with slim cases.
That'd be a good way to go. Er, but you would have to ANSI mod them. Downside of the slim case is that typical PCBs will not fit them. You could try to find a Filco Zero full size and use it for a swap.
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 25 September 2016, 20:05:37
What do you think about the monterey k104? It has a pretty modern layout, all but the bigass enter. I have modded a BAE board to ansi enter and 1.75u backslash. Possibly use a leeku mx/alps pcb if you can find one, I still havent forund one and actually gave up looking. The only lead I got was from alienman82, and it was in china and reasonably overpriced.What's the best way to go about ANSI-modding a board like that? Using a nibbler tool to cut out a switch socket from the plate and swapping the PCB??
In any case, I'm not particularly keen on the Monterey K104 simply because of the fact that it is kind of bulky. I could try and slim mod it but that sounds like way more work than just cutting acrylic pieces on a laser cutter. My university provides deeply discounted materials and has public-access laser cutters so I would not be paying much to go down this route. I already have a spare AT101W PCB as well. Would love to find a Leeku PCB but NKRO is largely optional for my line of work and it's not like I would be gaming on this board. In addition, I could always add re-programmability via one of Hasu's adapters as well.
That would be a rather slick option... if I could find one.What do you think about the monterey k104? It has a pretty modern layout, all but the bigass enter. I have modded a BAE board to ansi enter and 1.75u backslash. Possibly use a leeku mx/alps pcb if you can find one, I still havent forund one and actually gave up looking. The only lead I got was from alienman82, and it was in china and reasonably overpriced.You could try to find a Filco Zero full size and use it for a swap.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 20:24:33
When I did it I used a dremel tool with a small cut off wheel. It worked great. I cut the hole slightly too small on purpose and used a file to clean up the hole. I agree that the K104's case is too large, but if you're going for a fullsize, why not go for a huge board? The omnikey 101 isnt much different size-wise from the monterey.What do you think about the monterey k104? It has a pretty modern layout, all but the bigass enter. I have modded a BAE board to ansi enter and 1.75u backslash. Possibly use a leeku mx/alps pcb if you can find one, I still havent forund one and actually gave up looking. The only lead I got was from alienman82, and it was in china and reasonably overpriced.What's the best way to go about ANSI-modding a board like that? Using a nibbler tool to cut out a switch socket from the plate and swapping the PCB??
In any case, I'm not particularly keen on the Monterey K104 simply because of the fact that it is kind of bulky. I could try and slim mod it but that sounds like way more work than just cutting acrylic pieces on a laser cutter. My university provides deeply discounted materials and has public-access laser cutters so I would not be paying much to go down this route. I already have a spare AT101W PCB as well. Would love to find a Leeku PCB but NKRO is largely optional for my line of work and it's not like I would be gaming on this board. In addition, I could always add re-programmability via one of Hasu's adapters as well.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 21:10:22
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D43a604716a0040a2851d969e01998583%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D232082890081%26clkid%3D8521694393798925062&_qi=RTM2247625 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D43a604716a0040a2851d969e01998583%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D232082890081%26clkid%3D8521694393798925062&_qi=RTM2247625)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 25 September 2016, 21:15:40
I'm thinking blue alps, what about you guys? I'm kinda wallethacked right now though unfortunately.Looks very KT F&F to me Oo .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D43a604716a0040a2851d969e01998583%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D232082890081%26clkid%3D8521694393798925062&_qi=RTM2247625 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D43a604716a0040a2851d969e01998583%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D232082890081%26clkid%3D8521694393798925062&_qi=RTM2247625)
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 21:18:07
damn no way then. I had that thought but I wanted to be optimistic :D I have seen some alps boards in this xt layout with similar caps though. Cant remember model numbers or anything though.I'm thinking blue alps, what about you guys? I'm kinda wallethacked right now though unfortunately.Looks very KT F&F to me Oo .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D43a604716a0040a2851d969e01998583%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D232082890081%26clkid%3D8521694393798925062&_qi=RTM2247625 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D43a604716a0040a2851d969e01998583%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D232082890081%26clkid%3D8521694393798925062&_qi=RTM2247625)
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 25 September 2016, 21:30:12
When I did it I used a dremel tool with a small cut off wheel. It worked great. I cut the hole slightly too small on purpose and used a file to clean up the hole. I agree that the K104's case is too large, but if you're going for a fullsize, why not go for a huge board? The omnikey 101 isnt much different size-wise from the monterey.Does the K104's PCB already have pins for an extra switch there?
Well the reason I'm leaning away from a traditional, vintage host is that I'd like a "floating keys" keyboard. In my opinion, DSA looks really neat when its "floating." Plus, having an acrylic case opens up some possibilities for bottom lighting. I'm not building a board with Brown Alps for the sound either, so having a 'lesser' case really isn't a big concern since I'm mostly in it for key feel. A K104 could be a viable host for a Blue Alps build but the Omnikey has traditional Alps-mount stabilizers and a metal bottom plate so, as far as I'm concerned, it's winning there.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 25 September 2016, 21:49:34
Only think I kept was the caps and costar-style stabs. PCB was safely recycled.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 25 September 2016, 22:57:51
Typed on a ANSI SKCM Blue Packard :p
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 02:33:00
I'm thinking blue alps, what about you guys? I'm kinda wallethacked right now though unfortunately.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-QUIMAX-System-KM-5170-Office-Standard-Keyboard-Free-Expedited-Shipping/232082890081)
It looks very similar to this magnetic valve board https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/adi-ki-5170-t6915.html
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 26 September 2016, 07:16:24
Well the reason I'm leaning away from a traditional, vintage host is that I'd like a "floating keys" keyboard.
As I recall, the internal assembly of an AT101 is considerably smaller than the outer case.
If you were willing to toss the top shell and do a "chop job" on the bottom shell, that might be the best and easiest solution for avoiding work and drama.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 26 September 2016, 18:10:52
Off the top of my head, the list would contain at least the following:
Full-size
Acer KB-101A
AEK
AEK II
Dell AT101
Dell AT101W
Leading Edge DC-3014
Matias Quiet Pro
Matias Tactile Pro
Northgate Omnikey 101
SGI Bigfoot series
Wang 725-3770
TKL
Matias Mini Quiet Pro
Matias Mini Tactile Pro
KBP V80MTS-C
KBP V80MTS-Q
KBP V80MTS-QL
KBP V80FD (white Fuhua)
60%
KBP V60MTS-C
KBP V60MTS-Q
KBP V60MTS-QL
KBP V60FD (white Fuhua)
Additions? Deletions?
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 18:17:14
(http://i.imgur.com/8QaYIUp.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 18:20:59
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 18:33:06
I would consider NeXT non-ADB horizontal enter variant also an ANSI board. However, with all right alpha/mod keys being shortened on the right, this throws a wrench to your plan of remapping backslash to backspace.Same.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 26 September 2016, 18:55:09
Also the Flico Zero and Ducky 1087 and 1087XM.
And the rare Kingsaver.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 26 September 2016, 19:31:06
I would consider NeXT non-ADB horizontal enter variant also an ANSI board. However, with all right alpha/mod keys being shortened on the right, this throws a wrench to your plan of remapping backslash to backspace.I own that board and forgot to list it! Thanks for the reminder. Actually, although the Backslash key is only 1.00x, it is in the right position, and so it works for me.
@fohat: The Kingsaver is a custom board, correct? I should have added to the criteria to exclude custom boards. However, if we include them, then there are a number of additional possibilities, especially in the 60% category.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 26 September 2016, 19:36:27
I would consider NeXT non-ADB horizontal enter variant also an ANSI board. However, with all right alpha/mod keys being shortened on the right, this throws a wrench to your plan of remapping backslash to backspace.I own that board and forgot to list it! Thanks for the reminder. Actually, although the Backslash key is only 1.00x, it is in the right position, and so it works for me.
@fohat: The Kingsaver is a custom board, correct? I should have added to the criteria to exclude custom boards. However, if we include them, then there are a number of additional possibilities, especially in the 60% category.
I personally don't think custom keyboards should be included. They're in their own category. This should be for OEM ANSI Alps boards.
Technically, the Wang covers 725-3770 covers the Kingsaver.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 19:40:11
Will post album soon :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 23:05:19
I really like it. The switches are ungodly. Better than SKCL Green, I now know what Chryos was talking about when he said "buttery". I don't mind the extra weight compared to SKCL Green since of the way SKCC actutates/works. I find it to be basically perfect actually. I don't mind the cap profile either. With a little adjustment ill be right with it! I always type slower on linears but on these it's just as good if not my fastest typing keyboard. So responsive, maybe that's just b/c there new but either way its a astonishing buy, especially at $35 free shipping! Can't wait to USB convert it. The one annoying thing is the length, my right hand moves over for the mouse more than I would like it but I guess ill get used to it eventually.
Also did some comparisons to the Multistation caps and they are similar while a bit flatter and less sharply angled. Same sub legends also :) The board also comes with an official metal IBM keycap puller for the relegendable keycaps and some stickers for them too.
Pics!
(http://i.imgur.com/pdcQ5eU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MRw198n.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4x1EBML.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QNKDDNd.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/tLjG3K6.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/4g5lyql.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/i2xynxg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vK8RlJZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5Gc4QOY.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/I2OodXm.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/gmj0Zh4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QPUmEZj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ELcWVOk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8i8xjDJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lyMkMTu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/knPNHOl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pjO1CO7.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/i7DuS8G.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/57D1Zge.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8goMwaM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6zEiKSk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/B9suBhX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eJU3uh6.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 23:21:34
It was ****ing glorious.
This reads 'pinging glorious' I'm sure :)) I'm off to see pics now.
Post by: Bucake on Mon, 26 September 2016, 23:26:47
phew, what a winner
Post by: sth on Mon, 26 September 2016, 23:34:35
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 26 September 2016, 23:58:12
(http://i.imgur.com/YMceRJc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/clNO1u2.jpg)
Also bottom of Pingmaster vs Multistation cap.
(http://i.imgur.com/9Caw0vG.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 00:13:37
Looks like Alps used the same color codes for their switches initially when moving onto SKCL with Greens and linear Creams. :))
You like them more than SKCL Green? Get out of town. Now I'm curious.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 27 September 2016, 00:18:09
Seems like they had very different profiles just looking at the Multistation key caps compared to the Pingmaster's. Looks nice though!I was under the impression that in similar condition, all linear Alps feel about the same. I am curious as well.
Looks like Alps used the same color codes for their switches initially when moving onto SKCL with Greens and linear Creams. :))
You like them more than SKCL Green? Get out of town. Now I'm curious.
Post by: mseaworthy on Tue, 27 September 2016, 00:25:12
Quote
Additions? Deletions?
Matias Laptop Pro--very similar to the Quiet Pro but with MacOS layout and caps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 01:08:14
Seems like they had very different profiles just looking at the Multistation key caps compared to the Pingmaster's. Looks nice though!As Chryos said the difference is from ultra smooth (SKCL) to butter (SKCC), the way they go down and rebound is glorious. Super responsive. It loves to do what it's meant to do ;) Plus how can you pass up such an opportunity for so dirt cheap. The unboxing experience was worth it on its own and super satisfying. The smell's, looks and feeling is awesome. Feels like a mini time capsule.
Looks like Alps used the same color codes for their switches initially when moving onto SKCL with Greens and linear Creams. :))
You like them more than SKCL Green? Get out of town. Now I'm curious.
Also keep in mind the SKCL Greens from my Zenith are in great condition. The extra weight vs SKCL Green might have something to do with it also along with the design of SKCC. Wouldn't enjoy a board of Creams nearly as much though, too heavy.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 01:28:19
Seems like they had very different profiles just looking at the Multistation key caps compared to the Pingmaster's. Looks nice though!As Chryos said the difference is from ultra smooth (SKCL) to butter (SKCC), the way they go down and rebound is glorious. Super responsive. It loves to do what it's meant to do ;) Plus how can you pass up such an opportunity for so dirt cheap. The unboxing experience was worth it on its own and super satisfying. The smell's, looks and feeling is awesome. Feels like a mini time capsule.
Looks like Alps used the same color codes for their switches initially when moving onto SKCL with Greens and linear Creams. :))
You like them more than SKCL Green? Get out of town. Now I'm curious.
Also keep in mind the SKCL Greens from my Zenith are in great condition. The extra weight vs SKCL Green might have something to do with it also along with the design of SKCC. Wouldn't enjoy a board of Creams nearly as much though, too heavy.
I felt the same way when I bought my NIB Xerox 6085. Seeing packaging as if it was made yesterday is amazing. :D This was not dirt cheap, however. :(
(http://i.imgur.com/ur8enGI.jpg)
Both examples just seem so modern to me, those plastic bags are from the future, man. :P Yeah, that smell is pretty awesome, which totally sounds weird, but it is!
Yeah, SKCL Brown is one of my favorite switches, though I love SKCL Green too. The heavier weight and cushiony feel on SKCL Brown is delightful, so maybe it's similar on these. Yeah, I should pick one up at this price point.
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 27 September 2016, 01:53:00
Very nice. I would like to get lucky enough again to try and find SKCM Greens.Seems like they had very different profiles just looking at the Multistation key caps compared to the Pingmaster's. Looks nice though!As Chryos said the difference is from ultra smooth (SKCL) to butter (SKCC), the way they go down and rebound is glorious. Super responsive. It loves to do what it's meant to do ;) Plus how can you pass up such an opportunity for so dirt cheap. The unboxing experience was worth it on its own and super satisfying. The smell's, looks and feeling is awesome. Feels like a mini time capsule.
Looks like Alps used the same color codes for their switches initially when moving onto SKCL with Greens and linear Creams. :))
You like them more than SKCL Green? Get out of town. Now I'm curious.
Also keep in mind the SKCL Greens from my Zenith are in great condition. The extra weight vs SKCL Green might have something to do with it also along with the design of SKCC. Wouldn't enjoy a board of Creams nearly as much though, too heavy.
I felt the same way when I bought my NIB Xerox 6085. Seeing packaging as if it was made yesterday is amazing. :D This was not dirt cheap, however. :(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ur8enGI.jpg)
Both examples just seem so modern to me, those plastic bags are from the future, man. :P Yeah, that smell is pretty awesome, which totally sounds weird, but it is!
Yeah, SKCL Brown is one of my favorite switches, though I love SKCL Green too. The heavier weight and cushiony feel on SKCL Brown is delightful, so maybe it's similar on these. Yeah, I should pick one up at this price point.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 02:12:14
Also the Pingmaster, is pingy indeed :P Interestingly the SKCL Green V60 MTS is almost right up there with it also. Linear Alps in the right conditions = a lot of ping. And luckily I don't mind it haha, kinda like it in a way. Its just the nature of the board. The Packard has a decent amt. of ping but of the switches themselves hides it unless you listen for in a quietish room.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 02:22:17
SKCM Greens are between Brown and Orange tactility wise. If you think Oranges aren't enough and Browns are too much Green's might be right up your ally.
So, weight-wise, similar to salmon or creams? Both pine and bamboo?
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 03:41:33
SKCM Greens are between Brown and Orange tactility wise. If you think Oranges aren't enough and Browns are too much Green's might be right up your ally.
So, weight-wise, similar to salmon or creams? Both pine and bamboo?
Well, I'd say the spring weight is 70g, that's what the Alps catalog says, which is what the force is for salmons and most switches made by Alps post 1989, I think. I'm not sure about the weight of Cream Damped , but I'm fairly certain the rest are 70g as well.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 06:13:32
Post by: Dokyun on Tue, 27 September 2016, 13:43:37
Btw, I don't think anyone's actually recorded yet what the beep from the speaker sounds like...here's a short video I made a while ago:
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 14:46:17
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 14:49:03
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 27 September 2016, 16:05:59
On the other hand, the last thing i need is another keyboard to build/buy an adapter for
On an unrelated note, would it be even remotely possible to mod my omnikey 101 to accept a stepped caps lock? I'm going to be completely removing the plate to clean and paint it anyway.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 16:09:51
Otherwise, you would have to elongate the switch position in the plate a tad to be able to take a stepped switch, then drill small holes in the PCB for the switch pins to fit through, then it's just a matter of connecting the pins to the pads for the Caps Lock key and you'd be in business.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 27 September 2016, 16:39:57
I'll have a closer look at the PCB when i disassemble it to desolder.
I messed up my leatherman looking for a screwdriver to open the case, so on hold temporarily :confused:
Edt: Checked the caps i'm going to steal off the SGI Granite, the caps lock switch and the tab switch are aligned vertically. Nibbling the plate will be super easy
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 27 September 2016, 18:11:36
Also, are there any differences between the Chinese and Japanese versions regarding converting to USB?
Thanks!
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 18:31:14
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 19:11:07
Huh, I got the Japanese pingmaster and mine didn't come with any stickers. Looks like there's some blanks too, that would've been a lot nicer than my method of labeling caps (printing them out on a crummy laser printer.) I definitely recommend pulling the trigger on one of these if you can. NOS, sealed SKCC ALPS are unheard of, much less at a price point lower than most dirty SKCM boards now go for. Buying one of them is a treat that will almost certainly never come around again.Thats's funny, even my IBM unpacking slip mentions them in the box, does yours? I've seen a video of the beeper, super loud :p Thank god there's a volume knob. Excited to use mine.
Btw, I don't think anyone's actually recorded yet what the beep from the speaker sounds like...here's a short video I made a while ago:
How did you go about converting your board with your own layout? Have a layout in mind myself, similar to Chryos's with a few tweaks.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 21:54:21
(http://i.imgur.com/NIdESsx.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 September 2016, 22:09:41
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 27 September 2016, 23:32:25
Another funny keyboard pic from eBay:there better be a Model F in that boxShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/NIdESsx.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 27 September 2016, 23:49:59
Another funny keyboard pic from eBay:there better be a Model F in that boxShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/NIdESsx.jpg)
Today, a $45 Model-F in excellent condition popped up on eBay and happened to be only be 30 min away. Picked it up and so far, it reminds me a bit of blue alps.
If anyone is interested, there is an A2S4100 on eBay missing a few caps (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-APPLE-IIC-MODEL-A2S4100-COMPUTER-/222263772533?) for $50+shipping. Maybe someone can ask the seller to disassemble it and ship only the keyboard. Not many clicky switches have tactility like amber alps.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 27 September 2016, 23:51:44
If anyone is interested, there is an A2S4100 on eBay missing a few caps (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-APPLE-IIC-MODEL-A2S4100-COMPUTER-/222263772533?) for $50+shipping. Maybe someone can ask the seller to disassemble it and ship only the keyboard. Not many clicky switches have tactility like amber alps.
Oh thanks, ya shot down the one I had in my sights! Haha.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 27 September 2016, 23:53:33
Today, a $45 Model-F in excellent condition popped up on eBay and happened to be only be 30 min away. Picked it up and so far, it reminds me a bit of blue alps.What kind of Model F did you get?
Lol, I know them feels man... but aren't Blue Alps generally considered to be better than Amber Alps?If anyone is interested, there is an A2S4100 on eBay missing a few caps (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-APPLE-IIC-MODEL-A2S4100-COMPUTER-/222263772533?) for $50+shipping. Maybe someone can ask the seller to disassemble it and ship only the keyboard. Not many clicky switches have tactility like amber alps.Oh thanks, ya shot down the one I had in my sights! Haha.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 28 September 2016, 00:05:13
Today, a $45 Model-F in excellent condition popped up on eBay and happened to be only be 30 min away. Picked it up and so far, it reminds me a bit of blue alps.What kind of Model F did you get?
Its an XT, the caps are weird but I mainly bought it for self-defense so thats not really an issue.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 00:07:47
Lol, I know them feels man... but aren't Blue Alps generally considered to be better than Amber Alps?It depends on your perspective. I found them to be not quite as smooth actuating versus the Blue's b/c of the high tactility but they aren't bad by any means. Your gonna have to like heavy switches to truly appreciate them. Plate material and thickness is going to a have a huge impact as well. A non-custom plate would be recommend so it doesn't break your fingers with harshness.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 28 September 2016, 00:17:18
Lol, I know them feels man... but aren't Blue Alps generally considered to be better than Amber Alps?
No, I don't think they are as smooth or have as nice of a click, but I wanted to restock on them and give them a shot once more. I'll probably end up disliking them again, but eh.
The tactility truly is rather harsh on them. It's just as if someone bent the click leaf bump to a 90 degree angle. It -catches- in a way.
Like Mattr says, a more flexible plate like the steel commonly used on OEM boards, or aluminum would probably be best. The carbon fiber plate gives SKCM Brown and SKCM Amber a finger-breaking vibe. Stainless is about just as bad.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 September 2016, 00:26:38
Let's turn for a moment... to a post in the not-so-distant past:Lol, I know them feels man... but aren't Blue Alps generally considered to be better than Amber Alps?It depends on your perspective. I found them to be not quite as smooth actuating versus the Blue's b/c of the high tactility but they aren't bad by any means. Your gonna have to like heavy switches to truly appreciate them. Plate material and thickness is going to a have a huge impact as well. A non-custom plate would be recommend so it doesn't break your fingers with harshness.
I am a nineteen year old web developer/software engineer that has a predilection for heavy switches with a nice clack.
Fair enough, that does sound quite harsh. How do you think an acrylic plate would interact with SKCM Brown Switches? I sourced the material for $5 and I am going to try to have it cut on Friday.Lol, I know them feels man... but aren't Blue Alps generally considered to be better than Amber Alps?
No, I don't think they are as smooth or have as nice of a click, but I wanted to restock on them and give them a shot once more. I'll probably end up disliking them again, but eh.
The tactility truly is rather harsh on them. It's just as if someone bent the click leaf bump to a 90 degree angle. It -catches- in a way.
Like Mattr says, a more flexible plate like the steel commonly used on OEM boards, or aluminum would probably be best. The carbon fiber plate gives SKCM Brown and SKCM Amber a finger-breaking vibe. Stainless is about just as bad.
(http://i.imgur.com/vP1OBib.png)
Everything should be correctly sized to fit an AT101W PCB so I suppose we'll find out shortly thereafter :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 00:29:38
Post by: E3E on Wed, 28 September 2016, 00:52:21
I think acrylic would handle it well. Did you see the guy on reddit (mechmarket) who cut a plate out of the same material that PCBs are made out of? I forget the name of it, but talk about a way to make something PCB-mount, right? I'll have to try and find the post.
EDIT: Here it is:
Quote
Alps64 Cream Damped Keys and switches were harvested from an AEKII and cleaned by myself. The switches are cream damped which are a tactile switch. The plate and PCB are from Hasu's most recent GB. The plate is an experimental plate using 1.2mm FR-4 (PCB's are made out of this). It does not provide a noticeable difference. The PCB runs Hasu's excellent TMK firmware which has a GUI editor. Keyboard has a locking switch on the caps lock. Lastly the case is an orange 60% ziptye case with bumpons.
(http://i.imgur.com/e0veByj.jpg)
No idea how rigid it ultimately would be with that material, but it is definitely creative.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 September 2016, 01:00:48
I can vouch for browns being very smooth in comparison. They have a similar "omph" to the tactility, but their tactility is definitely different. There's something about the bottom out that just kind of sends the tactility right into your fingers. Amber and Brown and Green all do this (less so with bamboo green) very harshly on a stiff plate.Interesting, now you're making me want to try them (Amber and Green, that is). By the way, don't expect to get the just the keyboard from that Apple IIc:
(http://i.imgur.com/eDZI3Wa.png)
At least he replied quickly... really quickly.
I think acrylic would handle it well. Did you see the guy on reddit (mechmarket) who cut a plate out of the same material that PCBs are made out of? I forget the name of it, but talk about a way to make something PCB-mount, right? I'll have to try and find the post.Excellent, so my master plan is tentatively E3E-approved :thumb:
EDIT: Here it is:QuoteAlps64 Cream Damped Keys and switches were harvested from an AEKII and cleaned by myself. The switches are cream damped which are a tactile switch. The plate and PCB are from Hasu's most recent GB. The plate is an experimental plate using 1.2mm FR-4 (PCB's are made out of this). It does not provide a noticeable difference. The PCB runs Hasu's excellent TMK firmware which has a GUI editor. Keyboard has a locking switch on the caps lock. Lastly the case is an orange 60% ziptye case with bumpons.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e0veByj.jpg)
No idea how rigid it ultimately would be with that material, but it is definitely creative.
As for the PCB-material Plate thing, Hasu has tried that as well:
Got AEK PCB plate and checked it with my Alps64 PCB, original AEK plate and Poker X case. Space bar and stabilized keys work and I didn't find any problem so far.
I didn't solder switches and fully assembled them though, I'd say my AEK plate is ready.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PWhZrK0.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 28 September 2016, 01:05:23
Good luck with the project!
Post by: Dokyun on Wed, 28 September 2016, 01:44:58
Thats's funny, even my IBM unpacking slip mentions them in the box, does yours? I've seen a video of the beeper, super loud :p Thank god there's a volume knob. Excited to use mine.
I double checked my slip....nope. It just shows the cap puller and the extra feet for the bottom as the stuff that comes besides the keyboard. Guess there is a difference between the Japanese and Chinese versions, hah!
How did you go about converting your board with your own layout? Have a layout in mind myself, similar to Chryos's with a few tweaks.
alps102key.c is the keymap it uses, there's a visual diagram commented out in that file that looks like the Pingmaster's layout, just follow that as reference and edit the matrix below it changing the keys as you see fit...should be pretty straight forward. Here's what mine looks like:
More
Code: [Select]
KEYMAP_ALPS102(
ESC, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, MINS,EQL, BSPC,BSPC,BSPC, INS,HOME,PGUP, NLCK, PSLS, PAST, PMNS, \
TAB, Q, W, E, R, T, Y, U, I, O, P, LBRC,RBRC,BSPC, NO, DEL, END, PGDN, 7, 8, 9, PPLS, \
CAPS,A, S, D, F, G, H, J, K, L, SCLN,QUOT,GRV, ENT, NO, NO, NO, NO, 4, 5, 6, PPLS, \
LSFT,Z, X, C, V, B, N, M, COMM,DOT, SLSH,RSFT,RSFT, NO, NO, UP, NO, 1, 2, 3, PENT, \
LCTL, LGUI,LALT, SPC, RALT,RGUI, FN0, LEFT,DOWN,RGHT, 0, 0, DOT, PENT \
),
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 02:18:56
At least he replied quickly... really quickly.
As opposed to this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-IBM-5140-PC-Convertible-Desktop-Computer-For-Parts-or-Not-Working-/401195917213) $40 5140 listing, where I didn't get a reply from the seller. It's a nice day to be on the west coast :)
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 September 2016, 11:32:03
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Wed, 28 September 2016, 12:34:23
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 14:01:26
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 14:11:25
That seller had two beige and two granite ones for $60 too, all used. I was trying to get one of each for a bit cheaper, but then some lucky b'stard swooped in and took the whole lot >:D ;DI think I got my granite from him, paid 55$ for it.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 September 2016, 15:17:11
That seller had two beige and two granite ones for $60 too, all used. I was trying to get one of each for a bit cheaper, but then some lucky b'stard swooped in and took the whole lot >:D ;DI was really considering buying one of the beige ones and almost did several times. Then, I really thought about it and asked myself "what would I do with it?" and decided I'm better off waiting for an Omnikey. I am already working on a third/fourth (depending on how you count) project with an AT101[W] board, I don't need another :p
Post by: E3E on Wed, 28 September 2016, 15:35:08
That seller had two beige and two granite ones for $60 too, all used. I was trying to get one of each for a bit cheaper, but then some lucky b'stard swooped in and took the whole lot >:D ;DI was really considering buying one of the beige ones and almost did several times. Then, I really thought about it and asked myself "what would I do with it?" and decided I'm better off waiting for an Omnikey. I am already working on a third/fourth (depending on how you count) project with an AT101[W] board, I don't need another :p
Dude, I have so many switches and cap sets I'm not even using/don't have enough boards to use, and this IS talking about Alps. I'm not sure what I'm going to do to utilize them.
Even with my hot swap builds, it's a little impractical. I'm also considering what to do with my heaping helping of Xerox boards. I like them, they're like family to me. Family I don't want to separate.
However... Having so many stowed away keyboards is kinda cray. I have to get a converter made for these, dammit.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:11:23
The priority at this point is finding 101 new (clean) switches. Laugh all you want, but i can't take apart 101 switches individually and clean them
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:13:24
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:34:43
Yeah, I had a lot of stuff sitting around as well... probably not as much as you but I'm cutting back and trying to sell stuff nevertheless. I still have three or four boards I can't decide what to do with, namely my NeXT with SKCM Creams and Chicony with SMK 'Monterey Blues.' I like them but I don't think I'm ever going to use them. Dunno... I'll probably just get rid of everything besides my 60%'s, Orange-modded AT101W, Model M and my project boards (F107, MFSSK, Brown Alps 104-Key Build, Omnikey, Zealiostotles/MX Dark Blue). I feel like I'm approaching my endgame collection but give it a few months and I'll probably be singing a different song :pDude, I have so many switches and cap sets I'm not even using/don't have enough boards to use, and this IS talking about Alps. I'm not sure what I'm going to do to utilize them.That seller had two beige and two granite ones for $60 too, all used. I was trying to get one of each for a bit cheaper, but then some lucky b'stard swooped in and took the whole lot >:D ;DI was really considering buying one of the beige ones and almost did several times. Then, I really thought about it and asked myself "what would I do with it?" and decided I'm better off waiting for an Omnikey. I am already working on a third/fourth (depending on how you count) project with an AT101[W] board, I don't need another :p
Even with my hot swap builds, it's a little impractical. I'm also considering what to do with my heaping helping of Xerox boards. I like them, they're like family to me. Family I don't want to separate.
However... Having so many stowed away keyboards is kinda cray. I have to get a converter made for these, dammit.
Family, eh? Well if you ever decide to disown one keep me in mind, haha. What's stopping you from finding a converter, is there a lack of information on protocol they use or something? Now that I have access to an electronics debugging lab (oscilloscopes, electron microscopes, etc) again it's something I could probably take on; I've been looking for an excuse to break out my embedded programming skills again :cool:
EDIT: Speaking of my Orange-modded AT101W, I decided to take it into the office earlier today. It fits right in with the period-correct peripherals (with the exception of the mouse):
(http://i.imgur.com/j4lJYen.jpg)
Sorry for the potato pic.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:56:43
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 September 2016, 17:02:38
@wingpad: When you say "orange-modded" Dell AT101W, what did you do? Did you open up the black Alps on the Dell, pull out the slider, spring, and leaf, and replace these parts with the slider, spring, and leaf from Orange Alps? Did you keep the leaf from the Orange as a tactile leaf, or did you clip the prongs to make it a click leaf? Did you lube the slider rails and the leaf-side of the slider? If so, what lube did you use? Thanks!Well I did a complete swap, de-soldered all of the Blacks and soldered in Oranges from an AEK. While the difference in keyfeel isn't particularly noticeable, I prefer long switch plates on principal. I kept the Oranges as tactile switches, I wanted a quieter keyboard for the office and so far it's working out well (not a fan of dampened switches). I didn't re-lube the switches but if I was going to, I would probably use the DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant I have experimented with in the past; when used on clean switches it does seem to work well.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 28 September 2016, 17:10:18
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 September 2016, 17:14:16
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/How are you trying to remove them? You have to remove all the switches from an Alps plate and push them up from the bottom, you can't remove them incrementally like an MX switch.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 18:24:50
Am I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.
(http://i.imgur.com/VvdDNtL.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 18:27:24
Yeah. Ruined my v60 pcb by ripping out about 10 through holes. Lead free solder ****ing sucks manAm I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VvdDNtL.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:39:54
Yea....what did you end up doing? Buying another whole board?Yeah. Ruined my v60 pcb by ripping out about 10 through holes. Lead free solder ****ing sucks manAm I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VvdDNtL.jpg)
I did make it semi functional, no win keys or backlight!
(http://i.imgur.com/OOqL6lo.jpg)
At least it's sitting pretty right now...
(http://i.imgur.com/ZvSztGN.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:41:05
Havent touched it. sitting in a box currently. will try to grt it working sometime I guessYea....what did you end up doing? Buying another whole board?Yeah. Ruined my v60 pcb by ripping out about 10 through holes. Lead free solder ****ing sucks manAm I not removing the solder properly or is it just really diffiult to remove Matias from the V80's plate? I have no issues with MX switches :/Ooh, be careful with this :eek: I also find the solder KBP uses is quite difficult to remove as well with my V60. I didn't know better and ripped the switches out along with through holes. See pic. Take it slowly and don't force them, or else you end up with this.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VvdDNtL.jpg)
I did make it semi functional, no win keys or backlight!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/OOqL6lo.jpg)
At least it's sitting pretty right now...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZvSztGN.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:52:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 19:56:57
Havent touched it. sitting in a box currently. will try to grt it working sometime I guess
How badly is it damaged? If its just a couple of through holes on the home rows or whatever I can work with that. My pcb is messed up a lot more on the inside. Ruined LED holes, resistor pads and more. I can fix a couple switch through holes with some wire like I did on mine (on a lesser scale) and can then de solder the LED holes you never needed to touch, add some resistors and make Alps backlight without spending a boatload like E3E.
I've stayed away from finishing the project for a while since I would have to buy a whole new keyboard. If I could buy a slightly less ruined pcb that would awesome.
Haha pretty sure I ruined it. Oh well.Pics?
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:07:31
Post by: E3E on Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:16:51
When I get home I can but I had to tear the switch out with some force so I'm just assuming its broke.
Yeeeah, tripped the via right out. It's something that can wreck a keyboard. If you find the proper trances, you can reconnect the pins properly, but it might be an arduous task. I've heard the V60 PCB is multilayered. Is it just dual-sided or multi? Multi would be bad.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:17:30
Dual sided from what I can see.When I get home I can but I had to tear the switch out with some force so I'm just assuming its broke.
Yeeeah, tripped the via right out. It's something that can wreck a keyboard. If you find the proper trances, you can reconnect the pins properly, but it might be an arduous task. I've heard the V60 PCB is multilayered. Is it just dual-sided or multi? Multi would be bad.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 20:40:40
Really depends how bad it is.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 21:45:18
(http://i.imgur.com/lT4MBSw.png)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 September 2016, 22:27:13
Its alot worse than I remembered it. I might just wait for hasu to drop the next round of alps64s. I should atleast try to fix it though.Wait, the green ones are the only ones that work? Jesus thats actually a lot worse than mine lol.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lT4MBSw.png)
That layout is very similar to what I would want but with a few changes like using those extra key's to the right of enter as cut, copy and paste etc.Thats's funny, even my IBM unpacking slip mentions them in the box, does yours? I've seen a video of the beeper, super loud :p Thank god there's a volume knob. Excited to use mine.
I double checked my slip....nope. It just shows the cap puller and the extra feet for the bottom as the stuff that comes besides the keyboard. Guess there is a difference between the Japanese and Chinese versions, hah!How did you go about converting your board with your own layout? Have a layout in mind myself, similar to Chryos's with a few tweaks.
alps102key.c is the keymap it uses, there's a visual diagram commented out in that file that looks like the Pingmaster's layout, just follow that as reference and edit the matrix below it changing the keys as you see fit...should be pretty straight forward. Here's what mine looks like:MoreCode: [Select]KEYMAP_ALPS102(
ESC, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, MINS,EQL, BSPC,BSPC,BSPC, INS,HOME,PGUP, NLCK, PSLS, PAST, PMNS, \
TAB, Q, W, E, R, T, Y, U, I, O, P, LBRC,RBRC,BSPC, NO, DEL, END, PGDN, 7, 8, 9, PPLS, \
CAPS,A, S, D, F, G, H, J, K, L, SCLN,QUOT,GRV, ENT, NO, NO, NO, NO, 4, 5, 6, PPLS, \
LSFT,Z, X, C, V, B, N, M, COMM,DOT, SLSH,RSFT,RSFT, NO, NO, UP, NO, 1, 2, 3, PENT, \
LCTL, LGUI,LALT, SPC, RALT,RGUI, FN0, LEFT,DOWN,RGHT, 0, 0, DOT, PENT \
),
Guess there is a difference hah. Also NEVER use the keycap puller. It will scratch your clear tops.
Mine for reference:
(http://i.imgur.com/i2xynxg.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 29 September 2016, 02:58:29
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 29 September 2016, 07:49:33
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 09:13:34
@Mattr567: What are the caps and switches on your "sitting pretty" board?SKCL greens with japanese IBM multistation sphericals. Im so jelly
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 September 2016, 13:25:09
@Mattr567: What are the caps and switches on your "sitting pretty" board?SKCL greens with japanese IBM multistation sphericals. Im so jelly
I just retrobrighted my set.
I really should invest in an ultrasonic cleaner though.
(http://i.imgur.com/V2huiut.jpg)
Also, Mattr, I noticed you have the Chinese set while I have the Japanese one. Neat. :)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 13:55:03
It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:23:20
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:36:01
Regarding the IBM Multistation -- thanks for the tip. I will be on the lookout for these to come up on eBay or in the forums.
Where (in addition to a TRS-80 keyboard) can I get caps that will fit the "Pingmaster"? If possible, I would like to populate the relegendable keys with printed keys in the correct profile.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:48:53
I am very glad that I purchased an ultrasonic cleaner. It does a fantastic job on keycaps -- better cleaning in far less time than doing it manually. I got the iSonic P4820-WPB for $88.99 on Amazon Prime. Well worth the price.
I'll keep this model number in mind and probably pick one up ASAP.
:D
By the way, keep the model number IBM 5556 for the Multistation keyboards. Also look out for IBM 5550, as that's the series of systems they were used on.
As for SKCC caps? I know there's a typewriter with an ANSI set, but the right mods are slightly off on the Pingmaster. http://www.ebay.com/itm/231499624453?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Near perfect set of ANSI caps for any SKCC build/board that can support it. Would be a shame to dismantle a working typewriter for them though.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:14:11
Post by: Dokyun on Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:23:29
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WMElyKM.jpg)
It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D
Desire to know more about case painting technique intensifies.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:34:03
After all the 5140s and other mobile computers we've recycled over keycaps, you're getting torn up over a typewriter? :P
/me ponders...
Okay, you have a good point. They're more endearing to me for some reason, but I have to admit, that thing is pretty much perfect for an ANSI 60% SKCC project, which honestly... Would be SICK.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:37:56
rattle can :))Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WMElyKM.jpg)
It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D
Desire to know more about case painting technique intensifies.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:03:14
Oooh, those are quite sharp.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V2huiut.jpg)
Also, Mattr, I noticed you have the Chinese set while I have the Japanese one. Neat. :)
That thing is pretty much perfect for an ANSI 60% SKCC project, which honestly... Would be SICK.Has anyone ever made a custom SKCC board before? I don't want to kill a Pingmaster per say... but they're so cheap so it is kind of the ideal time to jump in and tear one apart for keyboard science.
I'll definitely +1 you if I remember to, good luck!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WMElyKM.jpg)
It is finally done. The closest to endgame I think Ill ever get honestly. Ill also be nominating myself for KOTM, so if you like it, feel free to +1 :)) :D
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:18:33
kill a PingmasterFor gods sake please dont kill one of the NIB ones! Find a dirty one in ****ty condition to kill. NIB boards from that era are so rare, it makes me wonder why there are so many pingmasters.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:24:08
I have a hard time valuing them as much as you do, especially considering how readily available they are. New switches for a new project is just too appealing of an idea :pkill a PingmasterFor gods sake please dont kill one of the NIB ones! Find a dirty one in ****ty condition to kill. NIB boards from that era are so rare, it makes me wonder why there are so many pingmasters.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:27:18
I have a hunch that once they are gone, theyre gone. How many used pingmasters have you seen? I think that once the lots on ebay are depleted, the value will increase.I have a hard time valuing them as much as you do, especially considering how readily available they are. New switches for a new project is just too appealing of an idea :pkill a PingmasterFor gods sake please dont kill one of the NIB ones! Find a dirty one in ****ty condition to kill. NIB boards from that era are so rare, it makes me wonder why there are so many pingmasters.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 19:35:09
That is super neat! The retrobrighted caps look good. I should do mine sometime. I like that the Chinese ones have blue alpha's.@Mattr567: What are the caps and switches on your "sitting pretty" board?SKCL greens with japanese IBM multistation sphericals. Im so jelly
I just retrobrighted my set.
I really should invest in an ultrasonic cleaner though.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V2huiut.jpg)
Also, Mattr, I noticed you have the Chinese set while I have the Japanese one. Neat. :)
Yea the caps are really cool. Those boards almost never come up on ebay. Taobao is where its at for that kind of stuff. Also E3E if you get that ultra cleaner and have good results I think it would be cool to ship you all my Taobao switches and you can clean them for me. I would pay for everything.I am very glad that I purchased an ultrasonic cleaner. It does a fantastic job on keycaps -- better cleaning in far less time than doing it manually. I got the iSonic P4820-WPB for $88.99 on Amazon Prime. Well worth the price.
I'll keep this model number in mind and probably pick one up ASAP.
:D
By the way, keep the model number IBM 5556 for the Multistation keyboards. Also look out for IBM 5550, as that's the series of systems they were used on.
As for SKCC caps? I know there's a typewriter with an ANSI set, but the right mods are slightly off on the Pingmaster. http://www.ebay.com/itm/231499624453?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Near perfect set of ANSI caps for any SKCC build/board that can support it. Would be a shame to dismantle a working typewriter for them though.
Also don't kill a Pingmaster! Thats a crime :'(
Here is how my Taobao stuff came.
(http://i.imgur.com/zpJ0Uik.jpg?1)
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 29 September 2016, 20:19:26
Here is how my Taobao stuff came.
Any clue as to what that straight-ANSI blue Alps one was in its real life?
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 September 2016, 20:37:46
Here is how my Taobao stuff came.
Any clue as to what that straight-ANSI blue Alps one was in its real life?
Pretty sure it was a Model M clone.
Also E3E if you get that ultra cleaner and have good results I think it would be cool to ship you all my Taobao switches and you can clean them for me. I would pay for everything.
Sure thing, I'd be happy to help. :)
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 29 September 2016, 20:53:41
Pretty sure it was a Model M clone.
It would be awesome if that meant that it could be re-habbed and stuck in a Model M case!
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 September 2016, 21:01:21
Pretty sure it was a Model M clone.
It would be awesome if that meant that it could be re-habbed and stuck in a Model M case!
That would be pretty awesome. Some -mostly- intact Model M clones go through TaoBao every so often complete with their pretty well-done replica cases. The keycaps are pretty interesting since they're modeled after the M's curved plate while having a flat plate, and so some have weird "stilts" to increase their height, similar to the AEK's F row key caps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 29 September 2016, 23:41:11
So for the ultrasonic cleaner I would send about 130 SKCL Greens, 120 SKCM Blues, those Model M clone caps and those Futaba caps. Nice opportunity. All the switches are already dissembled. I'll send a complete SKCL Green so you can see for yourself how rough it is even with my efforts and a cleaned and lubed SKCM Blue to my best ability for the same reason. Also to get a baseline. The Blue's click well but are rough in general, can't pinpoint it. The tops are the clear issue for the Greens. Don't need to clean the Green sliders since that would only be hurting them since there perfect and would only remove lube. The Blue's need the full treatment.
I would put all of them back together myself since that really isn't your problem. I would think it would be a good idea to do a few tests after though to make sure it worked etc.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 September 2016, 23:51:06
Yea those Model M clone caps are weird, wish they were thicker.
So for the ultrasonic cleaner I would send about 130 SKCL Greens, 120 SKCM Blues, those Model M clone caps and those Futaba caps. Nice opportunity. All the switches are already dissembled. I'll send a complete SKCL Green so you can see for yourself how rough it is even with my efforts and a cleaned and lubed SKCM Blue to my best ability for the same reason. Also to get a baseline. The Blue's click well but are rough in general, can't pinpoint it. The tops are the clear issue for the Greens. Don't need to clean the Green sliders since that would only be hurting them since there perfect and would only remove lube. The Blue's need the full treatment.
I would put all of them back together myself since that really isn't your problem. I would think it would be a good idea to do a few tests after though to make sure it worked etc.
In my opinion, when the tops are shot, there's not much you can do to help them. Even with my SKCM Green Xerox 6085, cleaning and lubing only helped a bit. It took replacing the tops entirely with clean tops to fix them. Not sure what was causing the binding there as the switches were clean and the board had no shine.
An ultrasonic cleaner might do the trick though. We'll have to see!
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 30 September 2016, 08:04:56
when the tops are shot, there's not much you can do to help them.
yep.
wear and dirt are not the same, and while dirt can easily be cleaned, wear is terminal
Post by: zslane on Fri, 30 September 2016, 15:50:17
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 30 September 2016, 15:54:29
KBP also makes its 60% and 80% models with all three types of Matias switches and also with Fuhua clones.
Post by: zslane on Fri, 30 September 2016, 16:15:07
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 16:31:17
Clarification of terminology request: is "Quiet Click" the name for their tactile (non-clicky) switch? And how does it differ from the "Quiet Pro" switch?Quiet clicks are dampened tactile switches, think SKCM Ivory dampened like is in the AEKII except not quite as good.
Post by: zslane on Fri, 30 September 2016, 16:47:31
Quiet clicks are dampened tactile switches, think SKCM Ivory dampened like is in the AEKII except not quite as good.
Ok, that is a useful comparison. Thanks!
The only Alps-based keyboard I've ever used (to my knowledge) was an AEKII back when I had a Mac IIci. I loved that keyboard, though to be honest I don't remember what it felt like to type on. It's been too many years.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:07:39
They also have a keyboard called the "Quiet Pro". It has "Quiet Click" switches. They are damped and have a tactile leaf, not a click leaf. They are quiet and they are tactile, but they do not click.
Their Click switches are rather loud, but I prefer them to their Quiet switches, which have a mushy feel when bottoming out.
However, I much prefer either of these switches over any Cherry mx or Cherry mx clone. I like them almost as much as white Alps, and they have the advantage of being available in new keyboards and as new loose switches for installing in custom keyboards.
Recently, I have put the slider and leaf from a Matias Quiet switch into the Spacebar switch on keyboards with Alps clicky switches -- this works quite nicely to quiet the Spacebar. However, on the other keys, I prefer clicky switches.
Post by: zslane on Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:28:29
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:48:29
I am definitely not a fan of DSA profile. Functionally, I find it difficult to type on a flat profile like DSA. And aesthetically, I do not like the looks of a flat profile. I like the appearance of a sculpted profile. OEM or DCS would be okay, but SA looks majestic to me.
Today I received two keyboards. One is a Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps. The board is in excellent condition and all the keys work. The other is a Focus 2001 with white Alps -- it appears to be in pristine condition, but it was functionally DOA. I will probably scrap the Focus and salvage the caps and switches.
Post by: zslane on Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:55:28
Yes, nice keycaps for Alps-mount switches are not plentiful.
I am definitely not a fan of DSA profile. Functionally, I find it difficult to type on a flat profile like DSA. And aesthetically, I do not like the looks of a flat profile. I like the appearance of a sculpted profile. OEM or DCS would be okay, but SA looks majestic to me.
I hear you.
I like DSA on 60% boards (I prefer SA on anything larger). Any DSA set with Alps mounts that might come along would go on a KBP Mini 60, so the flat profile would be just fine with me.
I agree whole-heartedly that SA looks majestic. Unfortunately, SP does not make SA keycaps with the Alps mount.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 30 September 2016, 21:42:09
I agree whole-heartedly that SA looks majestic. Unfortunately, SP does not make SA keycaps with the Alps mount.This is a major source of disappointment for me, I like SA but I don't like MX-mount switches enough to want to build a larger board with them. Hoping that Zealiostotles and/or MX Dark Blues live up to the hype so I'll want to build an RS96/ZZ96/Lightsaver with them... but even then I'd probably just stick DCS keycaps on said board. So, I'll guess just stick to wishing for Alps-mount SA keycaps...
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 21:43:50
damnit are we going to compete for a 96 too? I was gonna put my zealiostotles in a lightsaver :)) Great minds think alike I guess.I agree whole-heartedly that SA looks majestic. Unfortunately, SP does not make SA keycaps with the Alps mount.This is a major source of disappointment for me, I like SA but I don't like MX-mount switches enough to want to build a larger board with them. Hoping that Zealiostotles and/or MX Dark Blues live up to the hype so I'll want to build an RS96/ZZ96/Lightsaver with them... but even then I'd probably just stick DCS keycaps on said board. So, I'll guess just stick to wishing for Alps-mount SA keycaps...
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 30 September 2016, 21:47:49
Remind me... what else have we competed on? But, yes, great minds think alike!damnit are we going to compete for a 96 too? I was gonna put my zealiostotles in a lightsaver :)) Great minds think alike I guess.I agree whole-heartedly that SA looks majestic. Unfortunately, SP does not make SA keycaps with the Alps mount.This is a major source of disappointment for me, I like SA but I don't like MX-mount switches enough to want to build a larger board with them. Hoping that Zealiostotles and/or MX Dark Blues live up to the hype so I'll want to build an RS96/ZZ96/Lightsaver with them... but even then I'd probably just stick DCS keycaps on said board. So, I'll guess just stick to wishing for Alps-mount SA keycaps...
Anyway, this is old news:
Ill be buying some zealios soon, and once I have the money saved, Ill buy a lightsaver or lightsaver v2 to put them in if I like em enough.Ah, very cool! I'm thinking about putting them in a ZZ96/RS96 if I like them enough - aka basically the same thing!
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 21:49:30
Remind me... what else have we competed on? But, yes, great minds think alike!damnit are we going to compete for a 96 too? I was gonna put my zealiostotles in a lightsaver :)) Great minds think alike I guess.I agree whole-heartedly that SA looks majestic. Unfortunately, SP does not make SA keycaps with the Alps mount.This is a major source of disappointment for me, I like SA but I don't like MX-mount switches enough to want to build a larger board with them. Hoping that Zealiostotles and/or MX Dark Blues live up to the hype so I'll want to build an RS96/ZZ96/Lightsaver with them... but even then I'd probably just stick DCS keycaps on said board. So, I'll guess just stick to wishing for Alps-mount SA keycaps...
I remember bidding against someone on here on a zenith 163 with SKCL yellows, was that you?
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 30 September 2016, 21:50:42
I remember bidding against someone on here on a zenith 163 with SKCL yellows, was that you?No, I bought mine in person from someone nearby me. If I remember correctly you were bidding against emdude or blaise170.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 21:53:03
Aha! you have a much better memory than me. Well anyway, you can have first dibs on any lightsaver that comes up here, I have enough boards for a lifetime!I remember bidding against someone on here on a zenith 163 with SKCL yellows, was that you?No, I bought mine in person from someone nearby me. If I remember correctly you were bidding against emdude or blaise170.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 22:00:56
(http://i.imgur.com/WmwRdnB.jpg)
damn shame matias abs doesnt even close to matching the white. I think this is the closest I will ever get to a proper spacebar for this infinity board. I used a 6.25u and 1.25 mods instead of 1.5s.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 30 September 2016, 22:13:00
Zealiostotles are silly expensive, maybe find an 1800 with vintage cherry to put the artistole stems in? Just don't be like me and spend more money on silly GMK mods than the actual board...
Also, those DSA Lightcycle caps go up for pre-order this weekend if anyone is interested.
Lastly, @Mike I am not sure if it helps, but SP has a gray 6u spacebar in their webshop (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/), I think it is the same color as Alpine Winter.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 22:15:10
Lastly, @Mike I am not sure if it helps, but SP has a gray 6u spacebar in their webshop (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-alps-mount-space-bar-pack-of-1/), I think it is the same color as Alpine Winter.eh, Its fine how it is for now. I may just order another set of matias blanks and use those
Post by: chyros on Fri, 30 September 2016, 22:23:58
Yes, nice keycaps for Alps-mount switches are not plentiful.You've got a pristine 2001 and you're scrapping it? What did that poor old board ever do wrong? D:
I am definitely not a fan of DSA profile. Functionally, I find it difficult to type on a flat profile like DSA. And aesthetically, I do not like the looks of a flat profile. I like the appearance of a sculpted profile. OEM or DCS would be okay, but SA looks majestic to me.
Today I received two keyboards. One is a Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps. The board is in excellent condition and all the keys work. The other is a Focus 2001 with white Alps -- it appears to be in pristine condition, but it was functionally DOA. I will probably scrap the Focus and salvage the caps and switches.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 30 September 2016, 22:32:20
Aha! you have a much better memory than me. Well anyway, you can have first dibs on any lightsaver that comes up here, I have enough boards for a lifetime!Well first I have to make up my mind whether or not I like them... but thanks!
Zealiostotles are silly expensive, maybe find an 1800 with vintage cherry to put the artistole stems in? Just don't be like me and spend more money on silly GMK mods than the actual board...It depends on how you buy them, I spent less than $40 for 120 Zealiostotles :p
Also, those DSA Lightcycle caps go up for pre-order this weekend if anyone is interested.
I'm building a whole board to accommodate them, so I'm definitely interested, haha. Where are they going up again, Massdrop right?
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 30 September 2016, 22:45:40
Zealiostotles are silly expensive, maybe find an 1800 with vintage cherry to put the artistole stems in? Just don't be like me and spend more money on silly GMK mods than the actual board...It depends on how you buy them, I spent less than $40 for 120 Zealiostotles :p
Also, those DSA Lightcycle caps go up for pre-order this weekend if anyone is interested.
I'm building a whole board to accommodate them, so I'm definitely interested, haha. Where are they going up again, Massdrop right?
How did you get them that cheap? Even if you source the aristotles from TaoBao, Zealios are still $.75 each.
As far as the LightCycle caps, the set that only fit The Van keyboard ran on Massdrop, but the full set should be on evang's webstore.
He also said that inserts for jailhouse blues will be manufactured by the end of the year, I may check those out.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 30 September 2016, 23:26:16
How did you get them that cheap? Even if you source the aristotles from TaoBao, Zealios are still $.75 each.It's just the Gateron RGB tops that make Zealiostotles Zealiostotles and I already have gold springs... so I just bought Gateron Blues. They should be the same as Zealios switch tops. See this link (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4edyki/aristotles_gateron_the_clickiest_switch_ever/d1zinem).
As far as the LightCycle caps, the set that only fit The Van keyboard ran on Massdrop, but the full set should be on evang's webstore.
He also said that inserts for jailhouse blues will be manufactured by the end of the year, I may check those out.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 23:27:49
Ive heard that theyre different and someone experienced binding with gateron tops. Not sure though. I got 55g gold springs for free from badwrench :DHow did you get them that cheap? Even if you source the aristotles from TaoBao, Zealios are still $.75 each.It's just the Gateron RGB tops that make Zealiostotles Zealiostotles and I already have gold springs... so I just bought Gateron Blues. They should be the same as Zealios switch tops.
As far as the LightCycle caps, the set that only fit The Van keyboard ran on Massdrop, but the full set should be on evang's webstore.
He also said that inserts for jailhouse blues will be manufactured by the end of the year, I may check those out.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 30 September 2016, 23:29:43
Ive heard that theyre different and someone experienced binding with gateron tops. Not sure though. I got 55g gold springs for free from badwrench :DI think that's only with the Milky tops, the RGB tops are the same ones that Zeal uses. Noice grab on the free springs, though.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 23:31:32
If you have an extra gateron rgb could you send me one? Romevi sent me a zealio to try, I want to compare them and make sure.Ive heard that theyre different and someone experienced binding with gateron tops. Not sure though. I got 55g gold springs for free from badwrench :DI think that's only with the Milky tops, the RGB tops are the same ones that Zeal uses. Noice grab on the free springs, though.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 30 September 2016, 23:32:11
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 30 September 2016, 23:36:35
If you have an extra gateron rgb could you send me one? Romevi sent me a zealio to try, I want to compare them and make sure.PM'd
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 01 October 2016, 07:28:48
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 01 October 2016, 13:20:39
The thing is if you look it has different caps, the legends are really coming off so they aren't double shot for sure, pad print probably. Also it has homing bars not nubs like mine. This could be a sign that it is a later variant w/ SKCM White possibly. The guy might not sell it separately anyway. Not sure what I should do. He lives really close to me.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 01 October 2016, 13:41:29
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 01 October 2016, 13:54:50
I have had a few Packard Bell keyboards and they were pure junk, although I think that a couple of them may have had thin crappy caps that were Alps or MX mount.Well the early ones are great like mine, with an SKCM Blue, ANSI layout and DS caps. The one looks just like mine but may be a later version with SKCM White possibly since the caps are different.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 01 October 2016, 13:56:42
Like this one: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.1255
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 01 October 2016, 13:58:36
Also I found a Canon AP 500 on clist for $20. Its 1.5hr away, should I go and get it?I would, if you get it I would love to buy the caps from you.
Like this one: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.1255
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 01 October 2016, 14:38:37
Post by: E3E on Sat, 01 October 2016, 15:30:05
Also I found a Canon AP 500 on clist for $20. Its 1.5hr away, should I go and get it?
Like this one: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.1255
Trying to make me jealous again? That's like the last thing I really need for my collection. >:D Just be sure it actually has Alps and not something else before you make that drive.
Post by: ruiqimao on Sun, 02 October 2016, 13:11:43
It's got caps from an AEK and Orange Alps switches. I love it, and it's my daily driver for now.
(http://imgur.com/EY7pGFx.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 02 October 2016, 14:40:35
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sun, 02 October 2016, 15:40:49
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 02 October 2016, 15:48:00
Update on my Focus FK-2001 that I thought had died: I plugged it into an Orihalcon/Soarer PS/2 to USB converter and from there to the computer (via a powered USB hub), and the keyboard works fine: all keys including the Caps Lock, Num Lock, and Scroll Lock, as well as all the lock LEDs.
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 02 October 2016, 22:17:09
So much for this:
I am already working on a third/fourth (depending on how you count) project with an AT101[W] board, I don't need another :p
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 02 October 2016, 22:33:50
I found something quite cool on Taobao. A Dell AT101 with Double-shot Keycaps and Pine Alps SKCM Black Switches! Here's (http://imgur.com/a/sAE3R) an album of the pictures from the listing, I have heard of these before but now I'm going to own one :p
So much for this:I am already working on a third/fourth (depending on how you count) project with an AT101[W] board, I don't need another :p
It always seems the perfect amount of keyboards in N+1.
Never seen one of those variants. The caps should be the same profile and thickness as found on NeXT keyboards and ZX-330 typewriters. Anybody have a name of the profile or manufacturer?
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 02 October 2016, 22:42:09
It always seems the perfect amount of keyboards is N+1.Oh yes, N+1, haha. Now I just have to sell 3-4 boards to make it N-2.
Never seen one of those variants. The caps should be the same profile and thickness as found on NeXT keyboards and ZX-330 typewriters. Anybody have a name of the profile or manufacturer?
I haven't seen one until now but I had heard about them before. If I remember correctly, E3E mentioned them as one of the few he would want (or something like that). I would be interested to learn about the manufacturer of these caps as well.
EDIT: It was totally E3E over on DT:
Quote from: E3E
Dell AT101s made in Japan or the USA would definitely be boards I'm interested as I'm really looking for a MINT board as their key caps are really nice.
E3E also mentioned that they seem to have been made by Alps Electric themselves:
Quote from: E3E
Indeed, and they can be really fun and interesting to sort out! I didn't even see the distinction between Alps DS caps and Alps PBT caps until I stumbled upon that Japanese AT101 and then realized that there's a trend for those caps on every ANSI board I've seen with Alps Electric doubleshots.
Yeah, Alps Electric seems to have made the caps on the AT101 boards (SGI, Dell, HP, and a few more, I think), the Leading Edge boards, and a whole bunch more.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 02 October 2016, 22:43:57
I would recommended anyone who has one of these to get a USB converter asap.
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 02 October 2016, 23:00:03
Did a ton of typing today on the NeXT. Great board. The NIB SKCM Creams and Alps DS caps are a lovely combo.I have been putting off getting/making a USB converter... I am still unsure if I'll actually make use of the NeXT even if I get an adapter so I'm still trying to make up my mind.
I would recommended anyone who has one of these to get a USB converter asap.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 02 October 2016, 23:42:05
It really is a great board. Small on your desk even though it still has a numpad. Plus it's nice to break up the beige ;) Have a file Hyperfuse made for me that is pretty much as close to ANSI as your going to get. Totally usable :)Did a ton of typing today on the NeXT. Great board. The NIB SKCM Creams and Alps DS caps are a lovely combo.I have been putting off getting/making a USB converter... I am still unsure if I'll actually make use of the NeXT even if I get an adapter so I'm still trying to make up my mind.
I would recommended anyone who has one of these to get a USB converter asap.
Speaking of converters I do need to get/make a converter for my Pingmaster.
Post by: ruiqimao on Mon, 03 October 2016, 00:09:56
@ruiqimao: Nice board! Where did you get the plate (or how did you make it)? Where did you get the red caps -- are they dyed caps from the AEK? What layout have you programmed? Is it HHKB using the lower right-hand Ctrl as Fn? A board like this is on my project list!
Thanks!
I ordered the plate from Big Blue Saw. I got the dxf from Hasu's Alps64 repo.
The red caps are dyed. I'm not actually sure what dye was used, since I actually just pulled them off another AEK that already had dyed caps.
And the layout is exactly what you think it is :) Bottom right is fn, caps lock is control, and I have backslash and backspace flipped. And I tap control for escape.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 03 October 2016, 08:26:23
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 09:26:58
(http://i.imgur.com/oE94csS.png)
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 03 October 2016, 13:52:32
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 13:54:13
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 14:35:49
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 14:58:22
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 14:59:01
<3alien
^-^
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 15:14:55
Ive been thinking about adding a skcl lock for the Fn key next to rshift, I cant get TMK's toggle functionality to work correctly. Other than that I really love this alps64. When I first built it I dindt want ot use it because the layout was so alien to me and I didnt have a proper spacebar. But now, I have no excuses :D
You're talking about using TMK converter right? Is it possible to make a pcb spot that was previously without locking key accept the locking key, just by using tmk or soarer converter (as opposed to controller)?
And unrelated, but how does one detach plastic part of the alps skcm switchplate from the metallic back part? Those two small plastic rivets don't seem to budge.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 16:56:56
I was talking about my alps64, which is programmed with tmk. No modifications are needed to incorporate a SKCL Lock switch, It just latches down and repeats the key. I just wanted to use it to toggle fn layers. As for disassembling switchplates, if you get it apart, good luck putting it back together.Ive been thinking about adding a skcl lock for the Fn key next to rshift, I cant get TMK's toggle functionality to work correctly. Other than that I really love this alps64. When I first built it I dindt want ot use it because the layout was so alien to me and I didnt have a proper spacebar. But now, I have no excuses :D
You're talking about using TMK converter right? Is it possible to make a pcb spot that was previously without locking key accept the locking key, just by using tmk or soarer converter (as opposed to controller)?
And unrelated, but how does one detach plastic part of the alps skcm switchplate from the metallic back part? Those two small plastic rivets don't seem to budge.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 17:09:53
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 17:16:19
Post by: PollandAkuma on Mon, 03 October 2016, 17:22:11
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 17:23:10
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 17:32:56
Haha Let me check real quick,... Nope, were goodJust unpacked my pingmaster, What an experience. Mattr wasnt kidding, its so cool to unbox a NIB product from 25+ years ago.
I always get Mike and Matt confused. you sure you didn't just get a second one :p :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 18:16:21
Just unpacked my pingmaster, What an experience. Mattr wasnt kidding, its so cool to unbox a NIB product from 25+ years ago.Cool man! What do you think of it?
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 18:18:44
Its a very interesting board, I love the switches. I cant see myself using it as a daily driver becasue of the strange layout though. Still, thats what I said about The model F XT and I used that for a few months happily. We'll see once I get a converter built, I have another teensy coming across on the slow boat from china.Just unpacked my pingmaster, What an experience. Mattr wasnt kidding, its so cool to unbox a NIB product from 25+ years ago.Cool man! What do you think of it?
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 18:20:02
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 18:20:36
Doubleshot ABSIts a very interesting board, I love the switches. I cant see myself using it as a daily driver becasue of the strange layout though. Still, thats what I said about The model F XT and I used that for a few months happily. We'll see once I get a converter built, I have another teensy coming across on the slow boat from china.Just unpacked my pingmaster, What an experience. Mattr wasnt kidding, its so cool to unbox a NIB product from 25+ years ago.Cool man! What do you think of it?
what material are the caps?
nice and thick ones too
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 18:59:49
Lol the F XT is wayy worse of a layout.Its a very interesting board, I love the switches. I cant see myself using it as a daily driver becasue of the strange layout though. Still, thats what I said about The model F XT and I used that for a few months happily. We'll see once I get a converter built, I have another teensy coming across on the slow boat from china.Just unpacked my pingmaster, What an experience. Mattr wasnt kidding, its so cool to unbox a NIB product from 25+ years ago.Cool man! What do you think of it?
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 03 October 2016, 20:49:35
Wasnt too bad for me, I got used to it very quickly.Lol the F XT is wayy worse of a layout.Its a very interesting board, I love the switches. I cant see myself using it as a daily driver becasue of the strange layout though. Still, thats what I said about The model F XT and I used that for a few months happily. We'll see once I get a converter built, I have another teensy coming across on the slow boat from china.Just unpacked my pingmaster, What an experience. Mattr wasnt kidding, its so cool to unbox a NIB product from 25+ years ago.Cool man! What do you think of it?
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 03 October 2016, 23:49:51
Yes, nice keycaps for Alps-mount switches
This is true but TaiHao makes a few doubleshot sets and iirc TaiHao are pretty solid for the price.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 04 October 2016, 07:48:11
Yes, nice keycaps for Alps-mount switches
This is true but TaiHao makes a few doubleshot sets
It is too bad that they make them for modern keyboards but not vintage. This one was OK except for Caps Lock and space bar.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 04 October 2016, 07:50:31
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 07:54:24
Case in point - I have to make a choice to either mod the Omnikey 101 plate/PCB further or mod a granite caps lock keycap. There's never enough time for me to get to it, though.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 04 October 2016, 12:26:04
I'd say it was Dell's, or rather Alps' "fault" here with that stepped caps lock key, as there were already some vintage boards with non-stepped caps lock key.
Case in point - I have to make a choice to either mod the Omnikey 101 plate/PCB further or mod a granite caps lock keycap. There's never enough time for me to get to it, though.
I'm personally modding an omnikey 101 to accept a granite capslock. Seems easy enough to me, there are just some traces in the way. I'll report back when i'm closer to being done.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 12:31:05
- I just got the plate powder coated, and making the cut would obviously either mean another round of sanding and painting, or doing a touch up
- following E3E's advice, I don't want to risk drilling the PCB that old, especially with traces nearby
Post by: fublamchu on Tue, 04 October 2016, 13:23:31
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 04 October 2016, 13:40:01
In your guys' opinion, are the Cream Dampened ALPS that come with AEK II's significantly better or worse than Orange ALPS?I didn't spend a whole lot of time typing on them but, from my limited experience, they're just different. The dampening really changes the way they feel and some people prefer it. The tactile plate in Cream Damped switches is also rather different than the ones found in Orange ALPS (possibly due to inferior materials) and, consequently, the tactility is not as sharp. Finally, Cream Damped switches are heavier than Orange ALPS.
In my opinion, they're significantly worse; however, if sound (or rather the lack of it thereof) is important to you, your mileage may vary. Last I checked, there is still a "cult" that favors the Cream Damped switches over their Orange counterparts.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 13:42:47
In your guys' opinion, are the Cream Dampened ALPS that come with AEK II's significantly better or worse than Orange ALPS?Orange is better imho, cream damped's tactility feels rough to me, not sure why. half dampened linear modded creams are dank though.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 04 October 2016, 13:42:59
But that does bring them even closer to Topre, I have to say.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 October 2016, 13:51:40
One place I have used a damped slider is on the Spacebar switch. I used a slider from a Matias Quiet switch. This transplant helps quiet Spacebar noise quite a lot. However, for all other keys, I prefer undamped Alps.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 04 October 2016, 15:29:16
In your guys' opinion, are the Cream Dampened ALPS that come with AEK II's significantly better or worse than Orange ALPS?Significantly worse. Orange Alps are easily among the best tactile switches ever made. Cream damped isn't bad, but orange is just amazing (if you manage to find some in excellent condition).
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 15:31:54
Speaking of the best tactile alps ever made, your little care package of switches is going out today! prepare to experience SKCM creams!In your guys' opinion, are the Cream Dampened ALPS that come with AEK II's significantly better or worse than Orange ALPS?Significantly worse. Orange Alps are easily among the best tactile switches ever made. Cream damped isn't bad, but orange is just amazing (if you manage to find some in excellent condition).
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 04 October 2016, 16:00:06
Yeah, I was thinking about that too, but two things are holding me back:
- I just got the plate powder coated, and making the cut would obviously either mean another round of sanding and painting, or doing a touch up
- following E3E's advice, I don't want to risk drilling the PCB that old, especially with traces nearby
My thought was worst case i'll just bodge the traces with wires. That's probably what it's going to come to anyway. It's not like this board cost me more than 30 bucks anyway, so i don't mind either way.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 October 2016, 18:20:59
1. FrankenAlps. Is there a post somewhere of a systematic comparison of swapping parts among Alps and Alps clones (such as Monterey and Matias)? It would be useful to know which swaps are possible, which are not possible, and people's impressions of the results.
At this time, I am mostly interested in swaps that are possible among switches that are still soldered in place. Switches available to me include the following varieties of Alps and Alps clones: black, blue, brown, cream damped, cream undamped green, Matias Click, Matias Quiet, Monterey blue, orange, salmon, white.
For example, what are some ways of generating a "ghetto blue" by swapping parts into white Alps that are already soldered into a keyboard? (So that the bottom housing and switchplate of the white Alps would have to stay put, but the slider and tactile/click leaf could be exchanged, and in some cases, the spring and top housing might be swapped out). (I have found that blue springs are shorter than white springs, for example).
2. RattlyAlps. This is a crazy OCD first-world-problem sort of question, but what factors determine the amount of noise from lightly brushing one's fingertips horizontally along a row of keys on an Alps (or other type) of keyboard? I notice that my KBP V60 with Matias Click switches is very noisy in this regard, as is my Focus 2001 with white Alps. Keyboards that are substantially quieter when doing this maneuver include my Leading Edge with blue Alps, Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps, and KBP V60 with Matias Quiet switches. Although it is not an Alps board, the quietest keyboard in this test thus far is my HHKB with 45g Topre switches that has been lubed and fitted with Silencing Rings. At first, I thought that a higher noise level correlated with the type of switch and the degree of wobble, but it seems to be a complex function of many variables, including the overall build quality/solidity of the keyboard. Looks like I might have answered my own question, but I would be interested in seeing other people's views on this.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 19:32:19
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 19:34:12
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 October 2016, 19:41:41
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 19:44:21
I plan to convert my Pingmaster in the not-too-distant future. Suggestions welcome on where to source keycaps for the zones that currently have relegendable keys. For example, I am thinking of moving the num pad to the far right and putting the nav island in the middle section that is currently set up for a num pad.Exactly what I did with mine. why do you need keycaps? If you touch type does it really matter if youre hitting a relegendable?
Post by: chyros on Tue, 04 October 2016, 20:48:23
:DSpeaking of the best tactile alps ever made, your little care package of switches is going out today! prepare to experience SKCM creams!In your guys' opinion, are the Cream Dampened ALPS that come with AEK II's significantly better or worse than Orange ALPS?Significantly worse. Orange Alps are easily among the best tactile switches ever made. Cream damped isn't bad, but orange is just amazing (if you manage to find some in excellent condition).
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 21:21:45
Very curious to see what you opinion is on them. To me SKCM Cream is miles ahead of Orange imho. More snappy and with a sharper tactile bump.:DSpeaking of the best tactile alps ever made, your little care package of switches is going out today! prepare to experience SKCM creams!In your guys' opinion, are the Cream Dampened ALPS that come with AEK II's significantly better or worse than Orange ALPS?Significantly worse. Orange Alps are easily among the best tactile switches ever made. Cream damped isn't bad, but orange is just amazing (if you manage to find some in excellent condition).
Favourites;
Clicky: SKCM Blue
Tactile: SKCM Cream
Linear SKCL Green
Really the only switch I haven't tried is SKCL Brown and Gray. Gray is pretty much the same as SKCL Cream (which I have) but am curious myself to see how SKCL Brown is.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 04 October 2016, 21:38:40
Very curious to see what you opinion is on them. To me SKCM Cream is miles ahead of Orange imho. More snappy and with a sharper tactile bump.
Favourites;
Clicky: SKCM Blue
Tactile: SKCM Cream
Linear SKCL Green
Really the only switch I haven't tried is SKCL Brown and Gray. Gray is pretty much the same as SKCL Cream (which I have) but am curious myself to see how SKCL Brown is.
SKCM Creams are definitely my favorite standard tactile Alps switch. My line-up is like this:
Clicky: SKCM Blue
Tactile: SKCM Cream and SKCM Green
Linear: SKCL Green and SKCL Brown
SKCL Brown has a sort of cushion to it that's really amazing to me. It might just be the Cherry profile FAME caps on my NCR that make them feel that much better, but as a result, they are a favorite.
Typing on SKCL Greens in my timeless Hammer Alps 60% and it never gets old. Light, crisp, and smooth. Taking this board out and seeing the backlighting always gets me. I love it.
About SKCL Cream: I feel like they are similar to SKCL Brown, but I've still been too lazy to desolder my Bondwell 8T Pro laptop to get them loose to try in one of my boards, so I don't have the best impression of them.
SKCM Green, in my experience with them, feel best in the Xerox boards they come in. They also feel terrible with any binding. Putting salmon tops on the 6085's switches helped immensely on that one.
SKCM Brown and Green felt terrible in my FMJ custom 60% with a carbon fiber plate. Just way too stiff and the sound in that case is still something that turns me off. I don't take out the NIB 6085 with browns often, but they do feel very slick when I toy with the board.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 22:31:25
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 04 October 2016, 22:39:03
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 04 October 2016, 22:39:24
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 05 October 2016, 00:03:28
God, sounds like you are dying for a Xerox USB conversion. Better get Hasu on the case.Very curious to see what you opinion is on them. To me SKCM Cream is miles ahead of Orange imho. More snappy and with a sharper tactile bump.
Favourites;
Clicky: SKCM Blue
Tactile: SKCM Cream
Linear SKCL Green
Really the only switch I haven't tried is SKCL Brown and Gray. Gray is pretty much the same as SKCL Cream (which I have) but am curious myself to see how SKCL Brown is.
SKCM Creams are definitely my favorite standard tactile Alps switch. My line-up is like this:
Clicky: SKCM Blue
Tactile: SKCM Cream and SKCM Green
Linear: SKCL Green and SKCL Brown
SKCL Brown has a sort of cushion to it that's really amazing to me. It might just be the Cherry profile FAME caps on my NCR that make them feel that much better, but as a result, they are a favorite.
Typing on SKCL Greens in my timeless Hammer Alps 60% and it never gets old. Light, crisp, and smooth. Taking this board out and seeing the backlighting always gets me. I love it.
About SKCL Cream: I feel like they are similar to SKCL Brown, but I've still been too lazy to desolder my Bondwell 8T Pro laptop to get them loose to try in one of my boards, so I don't have the best impression of them.
SKCM Green, in my experience with them, feel best in the Xerox boards they come in. They also feel terrible with any binding. Putting salmon tops on the 6085's switches helped immensely on that one.
SKCM Brown and Green felt terrible in my FMJ custom 60% with a carbon fiber plate. Just way too stiff and the sound in that case is still something that turns me off. I don't take out the NIB 6085 with browns often, but they do feel very slick when I toy with the board.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 05 October 2016, 00:35:48
God, sounds like you are dying for a Xerox USB conversion. Better get Hasu on the case.
Oh yes, I'd use one as a daily driver in rotation for sure, dude. Wingpad mentioned being able to help me out. I've talked to him a little bit about it. WE SHALL SEE. It'd be a dream though.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 05 October 2016, 03:04:26
My thought was worst case i'll just bodge the traces with wires. That's probably what it's going to come to anyway. It's not like this board cost me more than 30 bucks anyway, so i don't mind either way.
Ah yes, you Americans can get spoiled sometimes :D But it's not just the price for me. It's a lottery with Omnikeys because you never know how hard it will be to separate the PCB and the plate, so this one I have is pretty precious to me.
Do any of you have a favourite ghetto alps? It'd be interesting to see how all those linears would feel with white click leaf or black/salmon tactile leaf (and non-linear top housing obviously).
Post by: E3E on Wed, 05 October 2016, 03:21:10
The symmetrical sliders on early linears are interesting as well, but I feel like most of this is trivial when it comes to Alps. It's hard to say really. I'd always prefer using actual SKCLs over linearized just because the alternative feels cheapened to me.
I'm picky I guess.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 05 October 2016, 03:37:14
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 05 October 2016, 04:49:41
Quick question, can matias clicky and quiet click be modded to be linears? I was thinking about getting Matias Linears and Sprit's springs, but if I can just take out the leafs I could just use a 60g linear :)Yes, but beware that Matias and other simplified Alps are annoying as hell to put back together. The contacts are like paper and if you don't put the top on just right you'll squish it up.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 05 October 2016, 05:26:25
Just changing the top housing, I agree. But i wonder if using SKCL green / SKCM white combo would be closer to blue alps.Its not quite like blue alps, but its a really different feel. light, pingy, clicky, and super smooth. sounds bassier than white alps too, could be the slider material or the switchplate.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 05 October 2016, 07:14:11
My SKCM neon green Wang doesn't bind at all afaik. Some of your Xeroxes are really clean though iirc, right?Very curious to see what you opinion is on them. To me SKCM Cream is miles ahead of Orange imho. More snappy and with a sharper tactile bump.
Favourites;
Clicky: SKCM Blue
Tactile: SKCM Cream
Linear SKCL Green
Really the only switch I haven't tried is SKCL Brown and Gray. Gray is pretty much the same as SKCL Cream (which I have) but am curious myself to see how SKCL Brown is.
SKCM Creams are definitely my favorite standard tactile Alps switch. My line-up is like this:
Clicky: SKCM Blue
Tactile: SKCM Cream and SKCM Green
Linear: SKCL Green and SKCL Brown
SKCL Brown has a sort of cushion to it that's really amazing to me. It might just be the Cherry profile FAME caps on my NCR that make them feel that much better, but as a result, they are a favorite.
Typing on SKCL Greens in my timeless Hammer Alps 60% and it never gets old. Light, crisp, and smooth. Taking this board out and seeing the backlighting always gets me. I love it.
About SKCL Cream: I feel like they are similar to SKCL Brown, but I've still been too lazy to desolder my Bondwell 8T Pro laptop to get them loose to try in one of my boards, so I don't have the best impression of them.
SKCM Green, in my experience with them, feel best in the Xerox boards they come in. They also feel terrible with any binding. Putting salmon tops on the 6085's switches helped immensely on that one.
SKCM Brown and Green felt terrible in my FMJ custom 60% with a carbon fiber plate. Just way too stiff and the sound in that case is still something that turns me off. I don't take out the NIB 6085 with browns often, but they do feel very slick when I toy with the board.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 05 October 2016, 07:19:19
My SKCM neon green Wang doesn't bind at all afaik. Some of your Xeroxes are really clean though iirc, right?
Yeah, it was only the 6085 that had this issue, which is strange. I've mentioned it before, but it didn't have worn key caps and the switches were absolutely clean, but the switch tops were definitely causing the issue. When I replaced them with salmon switch tops from another board, they were just fine. Yeah, the DocuTechs are all smooth, despite there being dirt in some of the switches when I dusted them (all 333 of them :-\). None of them have binding issues at all and feel smooth.
The reason why I wasn't a fan of the SKCM Greens, SKCM Browns, and SKCM Ambers in the FMJ w/ carbon fiber plate is because of the rigid plate intensifying the tactile feedback to an annoying degree, especially on the bottom out. It just felt so harsh when bottoming out on those switches.
Being that the Xerox was pretty much designed around the SKCM Browns and Greens, they really do feel quite nice in those boards.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 05 October 2016, 08:00:52
Would you like your Pingmaster as much if all the keys were relegendable? For me, there are two main reasons for "real" keycaps: aesthetics and feel. Relegendables fail on both counts. (Plus sometimes I need to sneak a peak at the legend, just to be sure!).I plan to convert my Pingmaster in the not-too-distant future. Suggestions welcome on where to source keycaps for the zones that currently have relegendable keys. For example, I am thinking of moving the num pad to the far right and putting the nav island in the middle section that is currently set up for a num pad.Exactly what I did with mine. why do you need keycaps? If you touch type does it really matter if youre hitting a relegendable?
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 05 October 2016, 08:04:28
Very true, But cruciform alps mount caps with the correct size, profile and legends are probably impossible to find. The pingmaster can be converted to an hhkb layout easily, So youll be right at home there. If correct caps do surface, you know all of us pingmaster owners will want them. but for now it looks like we'll just have to rely on relegendables.Would you like your Pingmaster as much if all the keys were relegendable? For me, there are two main reasons for "real" keycaps: aesthetics and feel. Relegendables fail on both counts. (Plus sometimes I need to sneak a peak at the legend, just to be sure!).I plan to convert my Pingmaster in the not-too-distant future. Suggestions welcome on where to source keycaps for the zones that currently have relegendable keys. For example, I am thinking of moving the num pad to the far right and putting the nav island in the middle section that is currently set up for a num pad.Exactly what I did with mine. why do you need keycaps? If you touch type does it really matter if youre hitting a relegendable?
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 05 October 2016, 08:29:40
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 05 October 2016, 09:25:07
Regarding the "favorite Alps switch" subthread, mine is currently white Alps. This choice is highly influenced by the keyboard that houses the switch. I am typing now on a Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps, which thus far gives me the best typing experience over my other keyboards with various flavors (colors) of Alps switches. This choice is of course subject to change after I finish refurbishing the Alps-switch keyboards that are waiting in the wings.To be fair, any alps switch is only as good as the chasis it is mounted in. I would personally rather use white alps mounted in an Omnikey rather than blue alps mounted in a LE DC-2014. I feel that any SKCL/M alps switch (with the possible exception of black) will feel better when mounted in a high quality metal backed board than a lesser built board. Kindof like IBM Model M BS feels better than IBM Model M2 BS.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 05 October 2016, 12:16:18
I'm certainly going to give it a shot, I'm no hasu but my background is in electrical engineering and embedded programming :thumb:God, sounds like you are dying for a Xerox USB conversion. Better get Hasu on the case.Oh yes, I'd use one as a daily driver in rotation for sure, dude. Wingpad mentioned being able to help me out. I've talked to him a little bit about it. WE SHALL SEE. It'd be a dream though.
Yeah, they're quite cool. I'd consider building a proper board out of them at some point.Just changing the top housing, I agree. But i wonder if using SKCL green / SKCM white combo would be closer to blue alps.Its not quite like blue alps, but its a really different feel. light, pingy, clicky, and super smooth. sounds bassier than white alps too, could be the slider material or the switchplate.
As for me, favorite Alps switches are currently:
Clicky: SKCM Blues
Tactile: SKCM Brown/Orange
Linear: SKCL Greens
If this isn't limited to Alps, replace Clicky with Capacitive Buckling Springs and Linear with Gateron Linear Clears. While the latter is almost certainly sacrilege, sometimes all you need is a plunger and a spring :))
In other news, I cut two prototypes for my AT101W plate in acrylic and quickly came to realize it sucks for making full-size plates; I have all the measurements right it's just very prone to cracking. Worse yet, unless I got 5+ people interested in having one fabbed, having a plate cut out of steel would cost over $100. Realizing that DSA Light Cycle will have all of the compatibility options I could ever dream of, I decided to start working on designing a custom board to accomadate them. Here is what I currently have in mind (keep in mind, some of the labels are not accurate):
(http://i.imgur.com/DECPTYK.png)
This layout would be compact enough that I could easily have it fabbed in steel and would be able roll my own PCB for it.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 05 October 2016, 12:52:44
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 05 October 2016, 12:58:59
Have you tried glass fiber and/or carbon fiber?I'm quite loathe to try them because of E3E's experience with them:
The reason why I wasn't a fan of the SKCM Greens, SKCM Browns, and SKCM Ambers in the FMJ w/ carbon fiber plate is because of the rigid plate intensifying the tactile feedback to an annoying degree, especially on the bottom out. It just felt so harsh when bottoming out on those switches.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 05 October 2016, 14:38:15
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 05 October 2016, 14:57:41
This has been my experience with SKCM brown switches in a 60% custom with a stainless steel plate. The switches feel very stiff and the bottoming out is harsh. These switches feel very different in their native habitat of an IBM 5140 keyboard, which has a lot of flexibility. Nevertheless, brown Alps offer wonderful tactility, and I still find it fun to type on the 60% board with these switches.Hmm... do we know what affords the IBM5140 keyboard such great flexibility? Is it simply a different/thinner plate material? I found it quite fun to type on them in their "native habitat" and I'm hoping to replicate that as closely as possible.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 05 October 2016, 15:02:05
This is a great start!I spent a bunch of time this weekend making a number of different franken-alps switches by mixing in parts from newer matias switches (right now only quiet clicks, but I'm tempted to get some clicky switches and mess with those too).
Using the terminology that Platy originated I'm calling the process of mixing in matias qc components as "smoking" (due to the gray color of the slider).
I used Orange, Salmon and Damped Cream switches in two different configurations:Additionally I make what I'll refer to as the "complicated quiet click" which swaps the entire guts of a quiet click into a damped cream saving only the complicated switchplate.
- Partial Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf with a quiet click tactile leaf.
- Full Smoke - Replace the tactile leaf and spring with the quiet click tactile leaf and spring
Overall I was actually really impressed with the results, with my three favorites being: Partially Smoked Orange, Fully Smoked Salmon, and the Complicated Quiet Click.
Partially Smoked Orange - The slightly lighter spring along with the older model switchplate in the oranges made for a very nice compliment to the newer and crisper tactile leaf from the quiet click.
Fully Smoked Salmon - This was a super crisp and slightly aggressive switch. The combination of later model complicated switchplate, the quiet click's tactile leaf and the undamped slider makes for a super crisp and crunchy feel. I think in the long term it would actually be easier (and cheaper) to use SKCM Whites as the donor. I'll have to look into it.
Complicated Quiet Click - This and the fully smoked cream were pretty similar, but I prefer the dampeners on the quiet clicks (could be age related). The end result is a slightly less wobbly (the switchplate on a qc has only one touch point on the slider) and more consistent feeling quiet click.
I'm going to build my first Alps Party board with Complicated Quiet Clicks and see how I like it vs. my v60 with quiet clicks.
Action pic!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EAAaViw.jpg)
I love your experimentation here. I hate disassembling Alps because I insist on using toothpicks because I do not want to mar the housings, and I don't have any of the larger cocktail sticks that Chyros recommends. I should consider whittling down some chopsticks or something.
Fully smoked salmon sounds both delicious and pretty awesome as do the complicated quiet clicks.
It would be helpful if someone would construct a table or spreadsheet containing all of the possible combinations of Alps switch parts, including parts from clones such as Matias and Monterey. There could be a column where people could list their impressions. I am especially interested in FrankenAlps that can be built using switches that are already soldered into a keyboard.
I envision a table with, for example, columns for recipient switches (from which the lower housing and switchplates would remain intact) and rows for donor switches and their parts (top housing, slider, spring, and click/tactile leaf). A checkmark in each cell would indicate which combinations are possible and some other mark could be used for combinations that do not work.
Because blue Alps seem to be almost universally praised, it would be particularly useful to list FrankenAlps combinations that could result in "ghetto blues" that are close to SKCM blues in sound and feel.
My best boards at present have white Alps, which I actually like very much, but I would be interested in knowing what the possibilities are for transforming white Alps into ghetto blues.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 05 October 2016, 15:15:36
Because blue Alps seem to be almost universally praised, it would be particularly useful to list FrankenAlps combinations that could result in "ghetto blues" that are close to SKCM blues in sound and feel.In my opinion, the "closest" ghetto blues are click-modded Oranges. Whether or not you simply transfer in the Whites' click plates or bend over the tabs from the tactile plates, they generally yield closer results than click-modded Greens since Greens are an entirely different (yet still appealing) pingy beast, haha. I think the biggest problem is that we still don't know what makes Blues Blues, it's really hard to try and approximate them since they have such a unique key feel. In all of my experiments with "ghetto" Blues, I still can't replicate that "airy" feeling that Blues have.
My best boards at present have white Alps, which I actually like very much, but I would be interested in knowing what the possibilities are for transforming white Alps into ghetto blues.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 05 October 2016, 15:36:26
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 05 October 2016, 16:33:54
+ Orange Slider
+ Click-modded Orange Tactile Leaf OR original Click Leaf from the white Alps
+ Orange Spring? OR white Spring?
+ Orange Top Housing? OR original White Top Housing?
Or, are you saying that the recipient board would be an Orange Alps board?
@Chyros: The video you are planning sounds like a great contribution. As long as you are going to all that trouble, would you also consider making a table like I have described to summarize the combinations and results?
Post by: E3E on Wed, 05 October 2016, 19:38:32
@Wingpad: So, let me be sure I understand your click-modded orange Alps. Let's suppose I am starting with a recipient board that has white Alps switches. To make click-modded orange, which of the following parts would I swap into the white Alps from a donor Orange Alps board?
+ Orange Slider
+ Click-modded Orange Tactile Leaf OR original Click Leaf from the white Alps
+ Orange Spring? OR white Spring?
+ Orange Top Housing? OR original White Top Housing?
Or, are you saying that the recipient board would be an Orange Alps board?
@Chyros: The video you are planning sounds like a great contribution. As long as you are going to all that trouble, would you also consider making a table like I have described to summarize the combinations and results?
A click modded Orange switch means you take an Alps SKCM Orange switch and snip the top tabs on the tactile leaf, then insert the leaf back into the housing and you're done.
Oranges and SKCM Creams (not damped) are probably the closest to SKCM Blue. I feel like Oranges are a touch lighter and Creams are a touch heavier though. Click modding either of these would bring them somewhat close to SKCM Blue.
I think the click leaf is the big defining point for SKCM Blue--it's got a lighter angle and a more gentle curve on the click legs and is not very sharp at all. Since that is unique to SKCM Blue, there's not much you can do to get that exact feel.
(http://i.imgur.com/ftCh8aQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2BiW0GA.jpg)
Blue
(http://i.imgur.com/kcJO4gr.jpg)
White
As you can see, there's a few difference between a white click leaf and a blue. I haven't compared blue leaves to oranges or creams yet though.
This has been my experience with SKCM brown switches in a 60% custom with a stainless steel plate. The switches feel very stiff and the bottoming out is harsh. These switches feel very different in their native habitat of an IBM 5140 keyboard, which has a lot of flexibility. Nevertheless, brown Alps offer wonderful tactility, and I still find it fun to type on the 60% board with these switches.Hmm... do we know what affords the IBM5140 keyboard such great flexibility? Is it simply a different/thinner plate material? I found it quite fun to type on them in their "native habitat" and I'm hoping to replicate that as closely as possible.
I think the biggest factor is the plate material. I would use aluminum for any custom builds, or mild steel, but that'd be prone to rusting. 1.2mm thick is what I measured the IBM 5140 plate's thickness at.
The second factor I could see causing harshness is the mounting style of the plate to the case. I think top-mounted or suspended style mounting (as I like to call it) would be the least harsh as it would give the plate more room for flex. You see this in metal-backed vintage keyboards and many TKL customs (the Orion is an example).
Bottom-mounted or tray mounted might lead to more stiffness, especially if the PCB is screwed into the bottom at various points like most 60% case styles. Most plastic-cased vintages are bottom mount, but if I remember right, the screws are more spaced out and the PCB is mainly resting on standoffs. Did I ever mention that the Xerox boards use no screws at all?
My bent case Infinity was notoriously harsh to the point that typing on Alps SKCM Oranges gave me RSI in my right thumb last November. The case is made of stainless steel and being bent as it is makes it incredibly rigid and not prone to much flex at all.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 05 October 2016, 21:37:30
@Wingpad: So, let me be sure I understand your click-modded orange Alps. Let's suppose I am starting with a recipient board that has white Alps switches. To make click-modded orange, which of the following parts would I swap into the white Alps from a donor Orange Alps board?Of course! :) I hope to give an as thorough as possible comparison of all combinations. But I don't have all Alps boards yet, and no Matias ones, so this won't happen anytime soon.
+ Orange Slider
+ Click-modded Orange Tactile Leaf OR original Click Leaf from the white Alps
+ Orange Spring? OR white Spring?
+ Orange Top Housing? OR original White Top Housing?
Or, are you saying that the recipient board would be an Orange Alps board?
@Chyros: The video you are planning sounds like a great contribution. As long as you are going to all that trouble, would you also consider making a table like I have described to summarize the combinations and results?
I do however have most of these switches loose. I hope to be able to at least make a photographic comparison of the parts of all these switches, which I should be able to do quite soon.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:09:00
(http://i.imgur.com/T1foVdj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/K4copRf.jpg)
This board looks and feels absolutely new. No dust on the plate, no dirt on the caps, no shine on the spacebar, and even no scratches on the feet!
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:10:35
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:19:31
My big wang arrived today
That is surely awesome. What model number is that?
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:24:03
725-3770us
My big wang arrived today
That is surely awesome. What model number is that?
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:29:28
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:30:33
@E3E: I I have a keyboard with white Alps and a layout and chassis that I like. I also have some donor orange Alps and blue Alps. If possible, I would prefer not to desolder and resolder switches. Would I gain anything by swapping parts from blue and/or orange Alps into the white Alps switches, or should I leave well enough alone and use the white switches as they are?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:34:16
My big wang arrived today :DNice, they're excellent boards :) . Very well built, excellent keycaps and very nice switches. Good catch! :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/T1foVdj.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/K4copRf.jpg)
This board looks and feels absolutely new. No dust on the plate, no dirt on the caps, no shine on the spacebar, and even no scratches on the feet!
Mike: I can help you in two weeks or so. If no-one helped in the meantime PM me :) .
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 17:47:03
(http://i.imgur.com/n1Go4ee.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 18:21:45
@E3E: I I have a keyboard with white Alps and a layout and chassis that I like. I also have some donor orange Alps and blue Alps. If possible, I would prefer not to desolder and resolder switches. Would I gain anything by swapping parts from blue and/or orange Alps into the white Alps switches, or should I leave well enough alone and use the white switches as they are?
The main difference between white and blue switches is that white Alps typically have short switchplates (I've never seen one with long plates), while blue has long plates. If you switch blue internals into the SKCM White bottoms on your Omnikey, you should get most, if not all of the feel and sound of blue Alps in that board. The only thing I could possibly see being different is the sound, due to the switchplate, but I think that's most likely negligible.
Also, those Wangs went fast on eBay. Still, the only Wang for me is one with Alps SKCM Orange. If I found one like that, I'd be set. Though I'd kinda want to use its caps for projects too.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 06 October 2016, 19:17:21
Which Wang boards were you referring to? Were these the 725-3770 models but earlier versions that had switches other than black Alps? Apparently, the earliest version of this model had SKCM orange Alps switches.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 19:28:56
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 19:46:59
Where did you get it from?
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 19:47:44
Nice looking board.Ebay
Where did you get it from?
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 19:48:01
@E3E: Thanks for the insights about transplanting internals from other switches into white Alps lower housings. I may give this a try with a few switches to see if it seems worthwhile doing the entire keyboard.
Which Wang boards were you referring to? Were these the 725-3770 models but earlier versions that had switches other than black Alps? Apparently, the earliest version of this model had SKCM orange Alps switches.
No problem! Always happy to offer what I can.
Yeah, they were Wang 725-3770 boards as well, but they had Alps SKCM Orange switches. Probably the only keyboard outside of the Apple boards I can think of with them. That would be the only native Alps SKCM Orange board I'd ever want, though I did enjoy my old AEK.
I desoldered those switches for a "trade" with someone who ended up being a scammer and I found out just before I shipped them out to the guy, but sadly had already dismantled the AEK.
Nice looking board.
Where did you get it from?
There were several on eBay recently for $99 plus shipping.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 19:50:19
There were several on eBay recently for $99 plus shipping.The seller was accepting very low offers, ohaimark offered 50$ and was accepted, and I offered 60$ and was accepted. Not sure who got the third one.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:11:05
There were several on eBay recently for $99 plus shipping.The seller was accepting very low offers, ohaimark offered 50$ and was accepted, and I offered 60$ and was accepted. Not sure who got the third one.
Well, if anyone got SKCM Orange, then I might be jealous, if not, then I'm good. :P
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:14:21
Thse skcm salmons feel amazing, possibly because theyre all but brand new. No matter what switches are in them, 60$ is a great deal for a wang.There were several on eBay recently for $99 plus shipping.The seller was accepting very low offers, ohaimark offered 50$ and was accepted, and I offered 60$ and was accepted. Not sure who got the third one.
Well, if anyone got SKCM Orange, then I might be jealous, if not, then I'm good. :P
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:17:49
Thse skcm salmons feel amazing, possibly because theyre all but brand new. No matter what switches are in them, 60$ is a great deal for a wang.There were several on eBay recently for $99 plus shipping.The seller was accepting very low offers, ohaimark offered 50$ and was accepted, and I offered 60$ and was accepted. Not sure who got the third one.
Well, if anyone got SKCM Orange, then I might be jealous, if not, then I'm good. :P
Now now, no need to brag about the price of your Wang.
You aren't wrong, however, Alps SKCM Salmon has remained one of the most boring switches I've ever used, and I've had four Dell AT101s with them. :P
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:48:35
(http://i.imgur.com/duFKHHC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fflDVzv.jpg)
Now donning the dyes caps from my Orion, with its original caps cleaned and in a bag. Pretty much just a placeholder for my key caps. I don't ever use the thing. :P
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:49:14
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:49:39
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:50:11
Speaking of AT101s, here's the last one I've got.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/duFKHHC.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/fflDVzv.jpg)
Now donning the dyes caps from my Orion, with its original caps cleaned and in a bag. Pretty much just a placeholder for my key caps. I don't ever use the thing. :P
man... I wish I had that before you made it black T_T
Sorry, bruh.
I do have three non-dyed sets though. :P
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:52:26
Why do you feel that salmons are so lifeless? I quite like them.
Well, compared to oranges, tactile browns, tactile creams, tactile greens... They just don't shape up well in my eyes. Another one I was curious of was pine SKCM Black--if it was any good, but people don't seem to think so if the NeXT boards with blacks are anything to go off of. I thought they'd be pretty good. I've only got the bamboo ones from an AT101W though.
Salmons aren't bad switches, but in contrast to the others I enjoy, they're a little anemic, just in my perspective.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:54:12
Agreed, it doesnt come close to the keyfeel of the creams in my omnikey, and some of them click on the way up, but I think that gives the board character.Why do you feel that salmons are so lifeless? I quite like them.
Well, compared to oranges, tactile browns, tactile creams, tactile greens... They just don't shape up well in my eyes. Another one I was curious of was pine SKCM Black--if it was any good, but people don't seem to think so if the NeXT boards with blacks are anything to go off of. I thought they'd be pretty good. I've only got the bamboo ones from an AT101W though.
Salmons aren't bad switches, but in contrast to the others I enjoy, they're a little anemic, just in my perspective.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:54:56
Agreed, it doesnt come close to the keyfeel of the creams in my omnikey, and some of them click on the way up, but I think that gives the board character.
I also agree that upstroke clicks are kind of charming in a weird way, haha.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 06 October 2016, 22:01:29
I also doubt the different switchplates cause a significantly different feel. It makes much more sense that the sliders, lubricant, leaves and coil springs, all of which are different between typical white and blue Alps, cause the difference in feel. It also explains why early whites feel better than late ones. The switchplate may well cause or contribute to the difference in sound though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 07 October 2016, 16:18:32
Reminds me I need to delsolder the other PCB.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 07 October 2016, 18:13:34
Thus far in my recent Alps frenzy, my favorite board is a Northgate Omnikey 101 with cleaned and lubed white Alps -- the switches are smooth and crisp, and the board is the essence of solidity.
This weekend, I hope to finish my partial refurbishing of a Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps to see if these switches live up to their reputation. All I will be doing for the moment is painting the case, installing a Soarer's Converter with a flush-mount micro-USB connector, and replacing the keycaps with dye-sub PBT from an SGI Granite. If the switches do not seem up to par, I will consider opening them all, sonicating the removable parts, blowing out the lower housings, possibly cleaning the switchplates with contact cleaner, and lubing the slider rails and click-leaf side of the sliders with Superlube 51010 oil. However, I hope to avoid all this, which might undo the voodoo that is performed on blue Alps at the factory.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 07 October 2016, 21:18:28
Are the creams damped or undamped? Based on my brief encounters with damped cream Alps, I did not like them at all. However, I sort of like the undamped cream Alps in my NeXT non-ADB keyboard. I have an SGI Granite with damped white Alps -- I will give this another try one of these days.Non damp from the NeXT's. I have SKCM Orange in the SGI.
Thus far in my recent Alps frenzy, my favorite board is a Northgate Omnikey 101 with cleaned and lubed white Alps -- the switches are smooth and crisp, and the board is the essence of solidity.
This weekend, I hope to finish my partial refurbishing of a Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps to see if these switches live up to their reputation. All I will be doing for the moment is painting the case, installing a Soarer's Converter with a flush-mount micro-USB connector, and replacing the keycaps with dye-sub PBT from an SGI Granite. If the switches do not seem up to par, I will consider opening them all, sonicating the removable parts, blowing out the lower housings, possibly cleaning the switchplates with contact cleaner, and lubing the slider rails and click-leaf side of the sliders with Superlube 51010 oil. However, I hope to avoid all this, which might undo the voodoo that is performed on blue Alps at the factory.
Why would you paint a 3014? Also arent they AT/PS/2? Also if you are going to clean the switches I would just dust them out. Sonic cleaning them (in the sliders case) will remove lube. I personally would not lube them etiher unless they are really bad like my Taobao ones. Given its a 3014 I would say there not that bad.
Also desoldered the other SGI and threw the good case onto my original one. Not only is it not marked but it seems that my old case was a bit warped on the right side compared to this one. I could slide my mouse mat under it but this one is solid on all corners. It also seems that the spacebar sounds more hollow than it used to be in the old case. Could just be me however.
(http://i.imgur.com/iIvYkLL.jpg)
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 07 October 2016, 22:26:44
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 07 October 2016, 22:58:19
Post by: E3E on Fri, 07 October 2016, 23:02:48
I'm putting SCKL Green into the VE.A, what is the recommended plate material for linear switch? My choices are stainless steel, aluminium, and acrylicstainless steel
Yep. Stainless
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 07 October 2016, 23:20:40
Hmm, I thought Chryos stated they feel identical to SCKM Brown except for weighting and some small acoustic differences?Why do you feel that salmons are so lifeless? I quite like them.
Well, compared to oranges, tactile browns, tactile creams, tactile greens... They just don't shape up well in my eyes. Another one I was curious of was pine SKCM Black--if it was any good, but people don't seem to think so if the NeXT boards with blacks are anything to go off of. I thought they'd be pretty good. I've only got the bamboo ones from an AT101W though.
Salmons aren't bad switches, but in contrast to the others I enjoy, they're a little anemic, just in my perspective.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 07 October 2016, 23:34:33
Hmm, I thought Chryos stated they feel identical to SCKM Brown except for weighting and some small acoustic differences?Why do you feel that salmons are so lifeless? I quite like them.
Well, compared to oranges, tactile browns, tactile creams, tactile greens... They just don't shape up well in my eyes. Another one I was curious of was pine SKCM Black--if it was any good, but people don't seem to think so if the NeXT boards with blacks are anything to go off of. I thought they'd be pretty good. I've only got the bamboo ones from an AT101W though.
Salmons aren't bad switches, but in contrast to the others I enjoy, they're a little anemic, just in my perspective.
SKCM Salmons? No, like he mentioned up there, they're similar to Alps SKCM Orange but stiffer (they also feel more hollow to me).
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 08 October 2016, 08:11:52
Yes, I agree with you about the switches. I don't plan to do anything major to them unless the switches seem scratchy or exhibit binding. As I said, there must be some sort of voodoo ritual performed on blue Alps at the factory, and I would not want to undo the spell -- it seems plausible that they have applied some sort of dry lubricant that would be removed if the switches were sonicated.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 08 October 2016, 08:33:54
@Mattr567: Why paint a DC-3014?
I think that it is kind of a shame to paint a classic keyboard, because any sort of paint job, no matter how good, will eventually start to break down and come off.
The only cases that I have painted were ones that I repaired and the paint was my attempt to conceal the work.
The exception to that is components of iron which usually need paint, or something, to prevent rust.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 08 October 2016, 08:58:00
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 12:51:58
I found a SKCL Amber Tandem Keyboard, was just listed. I'm not normally not a huge spender or make rash decisions but this is an amazing board. Can I have this one? :'( I looked around and I am the first one to find it. Was on my phone and was several pages deep on ebay.
-Matt
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331993612418
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 12:53:54
Uhhhh hey guys, so I know its only going to be a matter of time before you guys find this keyboard as well, but I wish to come to an agreement here. We have had problems with us bidding against each other in the past and I don't want this to happen here.Nope, not the first :p You can have it though, Ill cancel my snipe bid. I was talking to its owner (ohaimark @ deskthority) and he says the switches are nice and clean.
I found a SKCL Amber Tandem Keyboard, was just listed. I'm not normally not a huge spender or make rash decisions but this is an amazing board. Can I have this one? :'( I looked around and I am the first one to find it. Was on my phone and was several pages deep on ebay.
-Matt
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331993612418
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 12:57:53
Oh the seller is a member? Kinda figured since he knew what switches they are. Cool :)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 08 October 2016, 12:58:44
Uhhhh hey guys, so I know its only going to be a matter of time before you guys find this keyboard as well, but I wish to come to an agreement here. We have had problems with us bidding against each other in the past and I don't want this to happen here.
I found a SKCL Amber Tandem Keyboard, was just listed. I'm not normally not a huge spender or make rash decisions but this is an amazing board. Can I have this one? :'( I looked around and I am the first one to find it. Was on my phone and was several pages deep on ebay.
-Matt
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331993612418
I found it 10 minutes after it popped up. :P I have Tandem 6526 on my search feed since that's the board I got my SKCL Browns from.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 13:02:18
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 13:43:04
So the plan is to sell my G80-11800, 101 SKCM White Damp and 110 MX Blues to buy the board, and a KBP V80 MTS to put the switches in. Additionally a White/Blue Tai Hao DS set (can come with the V80 by default). Then after sell off the original Matias's to make up for more. I should then be about $20-50 in the hole. Not bad at all :D
So in the end I will have a SKCL Amber 80%. In the future I could always add a blue tex case to make it even cooler but that's pricey.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 08 October 2016, 14:16:33
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 14:37:04
Looks like bid for it has started. Please don't tell me you bid on it already, Mattr. :P It's such poor taste to bid on something so early in.Nope, not me.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 14:42:03
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Starrise-Computer-Company-Click-Key-Keyboard-PC-XT-AT-Original-Box-/182295768598?hash=item2a71acae16:g:ZDMAAOSwLF1X68Kz (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Starrise-Computer-Company-Click-Key-Keyboard-PC-XT-AT-Original-Box-/182295768598?hash=item2a71acae16:g:ZDMAAOSwLF1X68Kz)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 08 October 2016, 14:45:35
Post by: E3E on Sat, 08 October 2016, 14:57:11
Blue alps???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Starrise-Computer-Company-Click-Key-Keyboard-PC-XT-AT-Original-Box-/182295768598?hash=item2a71acae16:g:ZDMAAOSwLF1X68Kz (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Starrise-Computer-Company-Click-Key-Keyboard-PC-XT-AT-Original-Box-/182295768598?hash=item2a71acae16:g:ZDMAAOSwLF1X68Kz)
There are some different models with the IBM F AT style case and layout that had blue Alps. For instance, the Jameco JE1015 board. I think there's a Computerworld branded clone that's, well, just that. So this could very well have Alps SKCM Blue.
The jameco looks like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/QtxF6xA.jpg)
There are some differences, so I dunno. I can't find pics of the computerworld keyboard atm.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 15:03:39
I saw the Tandem board on eBay too, was under the impression that only the spacebar was SKCL Amber.Same. It's the spacebar switch for a couple of other keyboards that used SKCL Brown. That same Tandem can also come with SKCL Brown w/ Amber spacebar and Packard Bell KCLEA907L. I'm the one who wrote the wiki page :)
Guess it was used for both in this case.
Post by: fublamchu on Sat, 08 October 2016, 15:07:00
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 08 October 2016, 15:33:23
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 15:34:46
@Mattr567: How difficult is it to desolder the Matias switches in a KBP V60MTS or V80MTS and to solder in Alps swtiches? I recall seeing a post indicating that there was an idiosyncrasy in the way the switches were soldered in these boards that made it difficult to desolder and/or to solder in new switches.The only reason they are difficult to desolder is because they use the abomination many people call lead free solder.
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 08 October 2016, 15:49:06
Oooh, that Focus is beautiful.Blue alps???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Starrise-Computer-Company-Click-Key-Keyboard-PC-XT-AT-Original-Box-/182295768598?hash=item2a71acae16:g:ZDMAAOSwLF1X68Kz (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Starrise-Computer-Company-Click-Key-Keyboard-PC-XT-AT-Original-Box-/182295768598?hash=item2a71acae16:g:ZDMAAOSwLF1X68Kz)
There are some different models with the IBM F AT style case and layout that had blue Alps. For instance, the Jameco JE1015 board. I think there's a Computerworld branded clone that's, well, just that. So this could very well have Alps SKCM Blue.
The jameco looks like this:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QtxF6xA.jpg)
There are some differences, so I dunno. I can't find pics of the computerworld keyboard atm.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 16:02:28
Yea, their solder really does suck. I already learned that lesson with my V60. At least it survived in a frankenstein sense.@Mattr567: How difficult is it to desolder the Matias switches in a KBP V60MTS or V80MTS and to solder in Alps switches? I recall seeing a post indicating that there was an idiosyncrasy in the way the switches were soldered in these boards that made it difficult to desolder and/or to solder in new switches.The only reason they are difficult to desolder is because they use the abomination many people call lead free solder.
Armed with that experience the V80 will go a lot better. I bought a solder sucker for when I desoldered the SGI and it's much easier to do than braided wire. The wire is good for little touch up's where the sucker misses. I tested it with some lead free solder I had laying around and it works pretty well. Not as easy as the SGI's original solder but where I could get it done without 2 hours of handwiring to fix all the broken connections like the V60.
Just need to win that board ;)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 08 October 2016, 16:25:20
a solder sucker .... it's much easier to do than braided wire.
Even the worst and cheapest sucker is better than braided wire for a process requiring removing solder from hundreds of pins.
I keep the braided wire around for the rare odd circumstance, but it is strictly a back-up method.
PS - "lead-free solder" is an oxymoron
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 08 October 2016, 16:53:49
I found the post I was thinking of. It was from XMIT over on DT:
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/kbparadise-v60-alps-board-switch-mod-experience-t12964.html
I've copied some of the points he made here:
<snip>
3. Every single switch through hole mount is also a via with a pad on the top and the bottom of the board. Who does this!? I had a hell of a time desoldering these because even when the solder sucker appeared to remove all of the solder, the pin was still soldered just a tiny bit to the top pad, just under the key switch and on the other side of the PCB.
4. One pin on every switch is wired to ground - and specifically, to the ground plane. This pulls heat away from the pin really quickly and exacerbates problem #3.
5. Because of #3 and #4, the only way I could get switches off was to pull them off one at a time while heating the legs with a soldering iron. ... <snip> ....
<snip>
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 17:49:57
Post by: PollandAkuma on Sat, 08 October 2016, 17:57:23
Quick question, can matias clicky and quiet click be modded to be linears? I was thinking about getting Matias Linears and Sprit's springs, but if I can just take out the leafs I could just use a 60g linear :)Yes, but beware that Matias and other simplified Alps are annoying as hell to put back together. The contacts are like paper and if you don't put the top on just right you'll squish it up.
that sounds awful... i wish i can get complicated alps though. i just don't know where to start and ebay is rather bare
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 18:07:33
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 08 October 2016, 19:54:51
Yet another reason I completely destroyed my v60 pcb.Same here. All of that would explain why this happened so often and why I had to hand wire the **** out of it to make it work. If I want to ever make the LED's work I'll have to buy a new V60 and/or PCB. Don't want to touch the thing in fear that it would just fall apart.
For the V80 ill take extreme caution and hope for the best. The V60 was my first desoldering project and I have improved much since then but still **** KBP with these PCB's. Why don't they sell it disassembled as a kit? Less pain and lower cost w/ out switches.
(http://i.imgur.com/VvdDNtL.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 09 October 2016, 04:10:07
We have had problems with us bidding against each other in the past and I don't want this to happen here.
I follow ohaimark on ebay too, so it found me instantly, but it is too much of a hassle to ship that thing over here. Now if it were loose switches or an SKCL brown board with an amber or two thrown in, it may be a different story. Happy bidding! ;)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 09 October 2016, 06:55:15
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sun, 09 October 2016, 09:36:09
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 09 October 2016, 09:46:25
Hypersphere already knows, but in case you're interested, Tai Hao alps keysets are 20 dollars plus shipping on MDwhat kind of spacebar and modifiers does the keyset come with? The olivetti one looks rather nice.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 09 October 2016, 10:02:48
Hypersphere already knows, but in case you're interested, Tai Hao alps keysets are 20 dollars plus shipping on MDwhat kind of spacebar and modifiers does the keyset come with? The olivetti one looks rather nice.
The spacebar use cherry mount for stabilizer. You have to buy costar inserts to use the spacebar. Here is the link (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts/cherry-mx-keycap-stabilizer-insert-2pcs.html)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 09 October 2016, 10:07:53
The current offerings on MD are for Olivette, Dolch, or WoB. MK also carries Olivette and Dolch, but the last time I checked, they were out of stock for the Dolch. Clueboard has the WoB, and you can get a TKL set for $15 and the numpad set separately for $5.
The quality is not bad for doubleshot ABS. I wish they would produce some dye-sub PBT Alps sets (as long as they don't spoil them with their awful antibacterial coating).
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 09 October 2016, 20:48:19
The Tai-Hao Alps sets are for standard US ANSI modern layout keyboards. The spacebar is 6.25x and the bottom-row mods are 1.25x. If you need a 7.00x spacebar and 1.50x bottom-row mods, you can get these from Matias -- they have laser-printed or blank sets in either white or black.
The current offerings on MD are for Olivette, Dolch, or WoB. MK also carries Olivette and Dolch, but the last time I checked, they were out of stock for the Dolch. Clueboard has the WoB, and you can get a TKL set for $15 and the numpad set separately for $5.
The quality is not bad for doubleshot ABS. I wish they would produce some dye-sub PBT Alps sets (as long as they don't spoil them with their awful antibacterial coating).
Maybe they will get the hint eventually - more and more Massdrop buys are excluding the costing now.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 11 October 2016, 14:26:06
Where might one find these two red keys with an Alps mount?
Post by: E3E on Tue, 11 October 2016, 14:49:07
I really love the Dolch colorway. I've also become enamored of the Dolch colorway enhanced with a splash of color. In particular, a red ESC key and a red RETURN key (I have two boards with this variant of Dolch DSA on them).
Where might one find these two red keys with an Alps mount?
I know the Esc keys exist and were sold on a particular website (was it SP who made them?) but I've never heard of a return key being made in red. You could always try and find a PBT set with the font of your choice and dye them red, though Dokyun has also shown that dyeing ABS is perfectly doable.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 11 October 2016, 15:31:54
I really love the Dolch colorway. I've also become enamored of the Dolch colorway enhanced with a splash of color. In particular, a red ESC key and a red RETURN key (I have two boards with this variant of Dolch DSA on them).
Where might one find these two red keys with an Alps mount?
I know the Esc keys exist and were sold on a particular website (was it SP who made them?) but I've never heard of a return key being made in red. You could always try and find a PBT set with the font of your choice and dye them red, though Dokyun has also shown that dyeing ABS is perfectly doable.
SP's ESC keys aren't OEM profile. Their DCS profile isn't as tall as OEM and would look wrong.
A PBT set would be less than ideal because the idea is to match, as closely as possible anyway, the double-shot ABS style of the Tai Hao Dolch kit.
I pretty much figured I was looking for a unicorn.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 11 October 2016, 15:53:23
I really love the Dolch colorway. I've also become enamored of the Dolch colorway enhanced with a splash of color. In particular, a red ESC key and a red RETURN key (I have two boards with this variant of Dolch DSA on them).
Where might one find these two red keys with an Alps mount?
I know the Esc keys exist and were sold on a particular website (was it SP who made them?) but I've never heard of a return key being made in red. You could always try and find a PBT set with the font of your choice and dye them red, though Dokyun has also shown that dyeing ABS is perfectly doable.
SP's ESC keys aren't OEM profile. Their DCS profile isn't as tall as OEM and would look wrong.
A PBT set would be less than ideal because the idea is to match, as closely as possible anyway, the double-shot ABS style of the Tai Hao Dolch kit.
I pretty much figured I was looking for a unicorn.
Yeah, I realize that SP's keys have a short skirting compared to Alps profile, which is not 1:1 with OEM either as far as I've seen. Hmm...
(https://i.imgur.com/r0guEZQ.jpg)
I'm assuming they made this GeekHack cap too, but it doesn't look -that- off. It matches pretty well with the Wang's caps.
Still, you could take a red OEM-profile key cap or something of a similar enough profile (ie Tai Hao) and do a stem swap. It's not that difficult to do. :)
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 11 October 2016, 16:15:28
You might also try Fentek. They list them on their web site, but I don't know if they are actually in stock. I also don't know which profile(s) they have. They might also be able to do custom-order caps as well as blanks in various colors.
http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm#.V_1V5eArJjE
A good thing about the Esc key on a full-size keyboard is that it is somewhat isolated from the other keys, so that a difference in profile would not matter as much as it would for keys immediately adjacent to each other.
Post by: zslane on Tue, 11 October 2016, 16:28:58
Ultimately this isn't that important because I will be putting LightCycle DSA on it by year's end. But I figured if a double-shot OEM red ESC/RETURN pair was obtainable now, it would make the wait a little less painful.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 11 October 2016, 16:51:18
I would personally find an appropriately profiled ABS MX cap and modify the stem if I was dead set on having a red ESC key. I'm not too big on them myself, but I do think they look good.
How're the order numbers looking for the Alps Lightcycle sets; have we reached MQO yet?
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 11 October 2016, 16:53:44
Yeah, unfortunately this would be for a KBP V60 mini.I thought you only used full-size keyboards (?).
Ultimately this isn't that important because I will be putting LightCycle DSA on it by year's end. But I figured if a double-shot OEM red ESC/RETURN pair was obtainable now, it would make the wait a little less painful.
And I thought I only used 60% keyboards -- but here I am typing this on a full-size Northgate Omnikey 101. Alps is so much fun, I have decided to re-expand my horizons.
My KBP V60MTS keyboards are currently populated with dye-sub PBT alphas from IBM 5140 boards with blank black ABS mods and spacebars from Matias. One of them has a black-on-red Esc key whose profile appears to match the IBM keys, but unfortunately I do not recall where I got this Esc key. I've also replaced the RCtrl with a "menu" key from a Tai-Hao WoB set -- this serves as my Fn key for my HHKB-like layout. I have two ways of remapping my V60s -- using the Hasu USB-USB converter or ATNsoft Key Manager remapping software for Windows.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 11 October 2016, 17:01:12
Though I am more a fan of bulky full-size boards thanks to my vintage collection, which is one reason I was more than happy to buy a silent Realforce 104U and keep it entirely as it. :P
Post by: zslane on Tue, 11 October 2016, 17:28:58
I thought you only used full-size keyboards (?).
There are two contexts in which I use a computer keyboard. First is desktop PCs, with which I only use full-size boards. The other is my iPad, with which I only use 60% boards (Pok3rs) because anything else is either too big or too small.
I wanted to try the Matias Quiet Click switch, so I picked up a KBP V60 mini.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 11 October 2016, 17:58:08
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 11 October 2016, 19:11:26
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 11 October 2016, 19:12:34
should I put my SKCM greens in the Green VEA or wait for another kit?
What caps would you use?
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 11 October 2016, 19:13:25
Post by: E3E on Tue, 11 October 2016, 22:48:33
should I put my SKCM greens in the Green VEA or wait for another kit?
What caps would you use?
either AEK or Focus/Northgate combo
PBT is better for tactile switches, but the Focus/Northgate (OG Tai Hao) setup would look nice.
Yeah, unfortunately this would be for a KBP V60 mini.
Ultimately this isn't that important because I will be putting LightCycle DSA on it by year's end. But I figured if a double-shot OEM red ESC/RETURN pair was obtainable now, it would make the wait a little less painful.
By the way, zslane:
https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cherrymxkeys&pid=dmx_us104_red_tw
This would work for a stem swap and match Dolch very well.
If you're handy with a dremel, it's not so difficult:
You can either use an Alps stem harvested from a junked cap, or build up the middle of a Cherry stem with a filler (I use Plast-Aid plastic repair resin that bonds with ABS plastics and forms a pretty strong mechanical bond with PBT if the surface is prepped correctly), then just use a dremel to shape the Alps stem. It's not too difficult since Alps stems are very simple.
More
(http://i.imgur.com/Pra4hSR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VMJgY7N.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e0qsT8S.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VMJgY7N.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e0qsT8S.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 12 October 2016, 12:35:27
Did a ton of typing today on the NeXT. Great board. The NIB SKCM Creams and Alps DS caps are a lovely combo.I also like my non-ADB NeXT board. Undamped creams are good switches. For me, the drawbacks are the caps and case. Perhaps they look great when brand new, but the caps on mine have highly visible shine and the case easily picks up fingerprints and smudges, which are quite conspicuous and difficult to clean. Functionally, though, this is a nicely designed board. I like the form factor and layout, and I've swapped out the alpha keycaps with dye-sub PBT from an SGI.
I would recommended anyone who has one of these to get a USB converter asap.
Last month, I posted a mini-review of this keyboard, including some pics:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84629.0;nowap
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 17:41:47
The actual color of the switch is something between cream and salmon. Maybe :). Or more like a really washed down yellow. I don't know what to call it. Sliders also have some kind of black residue on them when keycaps are removed. And on top of that, they are really heavy. Some 125 to 130 grams of force is needed to bottom them out (tested with coins), so that puts them about the same weight as SKCL heavy greys, if not heavier.
Here are some pics, two grey and one black board
More
(http://i.imgur.com/EAyMnoj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fXO0edH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/x5qVPsr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IuB35OC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fXO0edH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/x5qVPsr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IuB35OC.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 18:30:59
Once more documentation is provided and more discussion on what exactly it is I will be more than happy or make a wiki page. Documenting new switches is wayy more important than individual keyboards.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Wed, 12 October 2016, 18:43:31
Without damaging the already battered and bruised PCB, preferably :P
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 19:04:00
If i were looking to remove heavily soldered bolts from an Omnikey 101, what would be my best bet?Heat gun just hot enough to loosen the solder a bit, a screwdriver and some elbow grease. Also you can use a drill and just drill out the bolt, but that is more destructive than the method I described.
Without damaging the already battered and bruised PCB, preferably :P
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 19:11:01
SKCL Heavy Cream perhaps?
Once more documentation is provided and more discussion on what exactly it is I will be more than happy or make a wiki page. Documenting new switches is wayy more important than individual keyboards.
SKCL Heavy Creams would be my choice as well. However, when putting them alongside SKCM creams damped or undamped, thet are visibly darker. Creams look almost white next to them until you put actual whites alongside as well. I'll try and get a better camera and take some better pics in the next couple of days.
If i were looking to remove heavily soldered bolts from an Omnikey 101, what would be my best bet?
Without damaging the already battered and bruised PCB, preferably :P
Well, the way i did it is, I first used a soldering iron on top of the bolt to make a piloting hole. I don't know how heavily your bolts are soldered, I had only one soldered on that board, and I've seen bolts with both more and less solder on another one. Anyway, then I used a couple of different burring bits with my dremel to first smooth out all the dremel in the screw head and the screw head itself, and to slowly drill into the head as well. Using 3mm wide bits should cut through the head and leave the rest of the head and solder on PCB and bolt in the nut with just enough peeking out to unscrew it. I don't know if regular drill bits would work. I think if using a dremel, they would maybe break, and if using a regular drill, it might be too heavy and cumbersome. When PCB is separated from the plate when all the bolts are drilled this way, it should be easy to desolder screw heads, as the plate is no longer draining heat from them. I used heat gun, but i think good soldering iron would do as well. The most important thing through the whole process is to be patient. I can't stress that enough. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
Heat gun just hot enough to loosen the solder a bit, a screwdriver and some elbow grease. Also you can use a drill and just drill out the bolt, but that is more destructive than the method I described.
I also tried using just the heat gun, but the solder just didn't budge.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 12 October 2016, 19:34:19
SKCL Heavy Cream perhaps?
Once more documentation is provided and more discussion on what exactly it is I will be more than happy or make a wiki page. Documenting new switches is wayy more important than individual keyboards.
SKCL Heavy Creams would be my choice as well. However, when putting them alongside SKCM creams damped or undamped, thet are visibly darker. Creams look almost white next to them until you put actual whites alongside as well. I'll try and get a better camera and take some better pics in the next couple of days.
Well, their color is more similar to SKCM Salmon than either SKCM Cream or SKCL Cream:
(http://i.imgur.com/c8efY1g.jpg)
So SKCL Salmon makes the most sense in terms of color matching, but the fact these might be special (and not common, board-wide switches) might make it seem a bit silly to name it that.
SKCL Amber was a surprise to see across an entire board though. Who knows, there might be some keyboard out there with incredibly heavy SKCL Salmon switches across the keys. :P
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 20:24:28
But more seriously, SKCL Salmon, at least to me, implies a normal switch type. SKCL Heavy Salmon would imply the switch is for special use, but then there's an issue of non-existent normal SKCL Salmon. ARGH. To paraphrase, there are only two hard things in keyboard science - wallet invalidation and naming things.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 12 October 2016, 22:36:23
You just wanted an excuse to post that bondwell pic :))
But more seriously, SKCL Salmon, at least to me, implies a normal switch type. SKCL Heavy Salmon would imply the switch is for special use, but then there's an issue of non-existent normal SKCL Salmon. ARGH. To paraphrase, there are only two hard things in keyboard science - wallet invalidation and naming things.
I totally get what you mean. The color is most similar to SKCM Salmon, but yeah, if it's just called SKCL Salmon, it would likely get confused with the tactile version as well as not be understood as a special switch.
SKCL Heavy Salmon is kind of an adorable name though too. I vote for Heavy Salmon, haha.
SKCL Strawberry Ice Cream :-X
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 22:45:27
Also ohhaimark just pm'd me on reddit wanting my Lexmark branded 1398601 Model M. He has the rest of the lineup of those quite rare Lexmark branded Model M's (SSK, M15, M13) and is only missing mine.
I smell a deal, rich with Amber ;)
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 12 October 2016, 22:48:02
Not a fan of Salmon. SKCL Heavy Pink?So that's the reason the board went off of eBay, eh?
Also ohhaimark just pm'd me on reddit wanting my Lexmark branded 1398601 Model M. He has the rest of the lineup of those quite rare Lexmark branded Model M's (SSK, M15, M13) and is only missing mine.
I smell a deal, rich with Amber ;)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 23:03:38
So it's a 1:1 trade. My Model M w/ its original case and bolt modded internals for the Tandem. Yes! :D
Now I need to find a Model M carcass for the industrial case.......
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 12 October 2016, 23:08:06
Yea, he ended it even before we made a deal lol.What's the Industrial Model M SSK case for?
So it's a 1:1 trade. My Model M w/ its original case and bolt modded internals for the Tandem. Yes! :D
Now I need to find a Model M carcass for the industrial case.......
I just hope to have a shot at one of these Tandem boards some day. My dad used to use these everyday at his job, I just wish he would've grabbed 'em his company was recycling them... that being said, I wasn't even born yet so there's no way he could have known I'd one day want them. Oh well, good things come to those that wait, eh?
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 23:20:25
No just a regular industrial case. I got it NIB off Unicomp and that is what I have had the internals of the Lexmark M in. So now it needs a new resident.Yea, he ended it even before we made a deal lol.What's the Industrial Model M SSK case for?
So it's a 1:1 trade. My Model M w/ its original case and bolt modded internals for the Tandem. Yes! :D
Now I need to find a Model M carcass for the industrial case.......
I just hope to have a shot at one of these Tandem boards some day. My dad used to use these everyday at his job, I just wish he would've grabbed 'em his company was recycling them... that being said, I wasn't even born yet so there's no way he could have known I'd one day want them. Oh well, good things come to those that wait, eh?
Ahh man. All that SKCL Brown/Amber gone. Come to think of it there must have been a huge massacre of Alps boards in the mid-late 90's.
Post by: adevriesc on Wed, 12 October 2016, 23:21:06
I apologize for the last minute listing removal. I received an offer I couldn't refuse, clearly.
I plan to post a nice group shot of the Lexmark family, if that helps anyone feel better.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 23:25:02
Hello all. I'm ohaimark. It's flattering to see all this discussion.It's cool man :) Excited to see that shot! Family reunion at last. Glad to be a part of it.
I apologize for the last minute listing removal. I received an offer I couldn't refuse, clearly.
I plan to post a nice group shot of the Lexmark family, if that helps anyone feel better.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 13 October 2016, 00:53:16
Not a fan of Salmon. SKCL Heavy Pink?
Also ohhaimark just pm'd me on reddit wanting my Lexmark branded 1398601 Model M. He has the rest of the lineup of those quite rare Lexmark branded Model M's (SSK, M15, M13) and is only missing mine.
I smell a deal, rich with Amber ;)
whyareweokaywithalpskclamberbutnotalpsskclsalmoncmonwhat *ahem*
But we have Alps SKCM Amber and Alps SKCL Amber. Why not Alps SKCM Salmon and Alps SKCL Salmon, or HEAVY SALMON. I mean, the Koreans call Salmon switches Pink, but... This naming thing, I tell ya...
I remember the ridiculous commotion about finding a proper name for Alps SKCM Green/Lime/Neon Green.
You know, Daniel Beardsmore didn't ask anyone if he should rename Alps SKCM Taxi Yellow to Amber.
He just did. >:C
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 02:08:40
If anything, it has to have 'heavy' in its name. I don't want people thinking you can just find SKCL Salmon in Apple boards or something. That was my main point with not calling it Salmon. SKCL Salmon no, SKCL Heavy Salmon I'm OK with.
Can we get some slider color comparisons as well? Also in one of the black X6800 pics the switches seem to be much more Cream like unlike the other 3. SKCL Heavy Cream?
BTW SKCM Green is the best out of those. Keep things simple. And Taxi Yellow seriously sucked.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 13 October 2016, 02:43:07
SKCM Green is nice and simple, but it's easy for people to mis-type the name and call SKCL Greens "SKCM Greens," haha.
Also, I've been playing with some of those Aruz switches that can be found in some Tai Hao TH-5539 keyboards, and while they aren't remarkable with their click leaves, I think they make fantastic linear switches.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 02:54:24
@Wingpad that's a depressing story. It's bad enough by itself but it also reminds me of that whole ordeal with kishsavers.
As for name, I like Heavy Salmon :) Let me take a few more pics. There are three boards in all, two grey, and one black. One of the shots of black was with flash, so that's why it looks off.
I like Lime as well. It's nice, short and different. Amber switches are not _exactly_ amber, so lime shouldn't be, too. TEAM LIME!
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 05:38:08
Some more pics. First comparison with SKCM salmon and SKCM cream undamped. I don't have loose salmons, so the setup is a bit crowded.
More
(http://imgur.com/ze8B5c7.jpg)
Salmon is obviously darker, and cream is lighter. The color really looks like a washed out yellow. Here's another pic with a second Sharp board
More
(http://imgur.com/O6smBLV.jpg)
So, I decided to take out the SGI Bigfoot, and that board has mostly damped white switches, but also a couple of damped creams as well (I have no idea why)
(http://imgur.com/o9bFq09.jpg)
It looks like those switches are almost same in color and undamped cream looks quite different. I really see now why damped ones were referred to as ivory, as it is obviously a different shade. Current name is probably too entrenched now.
All of the above pics were taken with my Lumia 930, and for comparison some pics taken with iPhone 5 are below
More
(http://imgur.com/13RNKGi.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/07Fa8C3.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/07Fa8C3.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 13 October 2016, 10:26:39
Yeah, ordinary SKCL Cream looks similar to SKCM Cream Damped too. It is worth noting that SKCL Cream has a symmetrical slider like most of the early SKCL switches.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 13 October 2016, 12:10:06
Post by: E3E on Thu, 13 October 2016, 12:19:45
Yes, that's definitely a different colour. I was hoping to do a slider comparison picture and now this turns up D: .
Have you got an Alps SKCL Amber slider to compare against SKCM Amber? Pretty sure they're the same shade, but I've traded all my ambers away and it's since been a pain in the ass to find another IIc on the cheap. :P
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 13:13:52
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 13:24:07
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 13:26:52
If you want to part with that docutech you know who to callShow Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/5756059ca8adbe71bd4114b2990d0f47.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/7aea6d2e80440e15011e1a16239c5682.jpg)
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Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 13:27:19
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 13:31:20
damn youre goodIf you want to part with that docutech you know who to callShow Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/5756059ca8adbe71bd4114b2990d0f47.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161013/7aea6d2e80440e15011e1a16239c5682.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ghostbusters?!???
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Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 13:37:04
Are they pine or bamboo?
Yes, that's definitely a different colour. I was hoping to do a slider comparison picture and now this turns up D: .
Well, you were definitely going to be more thorough than me, so don't use this as an excuse to not do it ;)
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 14:14:17
Post by: E3E on Thu, 13 October 2016, 14:15:58
I have to change my nick to ghostbuster then :)
Are they pine or bamboo?Yes, that's definitely a different colour. I was hoping to do a slider comparison picture and now this turns up D: .
Well, you were definitely going to be more thorough than me, so don't use this as an excuse to not do it ;)
pretty sure bamboo. too much of a cherry person to know
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Yeah, they're bamboos, going from what I know of and have seen of your board. :P
Post by: chyros on Thu, 13 October 2016, 15:49:37
No, unfortunately I don't. I aim to make a photographic, detailed teardown of ALL Alps switches sometime though.Yes, that's definitely a different colour. I was hoping to do a slider comparison picture and now this turns up D: .
Have you got an Alps SKCL Amber slider to compare against SKCM Amber? Pretty sure they're the same shade, but I've traded all my ambers away and it's since been a pain in the ass to find another IIc on the cheap. :P
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 18:16:57
SKCM Cream Damp
SKCM Cream
SKCM Cream - Canon version
SKCL Cream
SKCL Heavy Cream
Also changed my avatar. Nice change I feel. Just took that picture.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 13 October 2016, 18:37:54
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 19:18:10
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 21:25:37
What do you guys think? Im thinking SKCL greens or something foam and foil.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 22:11:39
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 23:29:37
(http://i.imgur.com/eynR4Lz.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 23:32:57
Post by: zefyr on Thu, 13 October 2016, 23:42:43
So beautiful...and new profile picShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/eynR4Lz.jpg)
nice what is it?
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That must be my WTB, tactile alps green.
Man!!!!!!! so jelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 23:43:15
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 13 October 2016, 23:44:44
Post by: E3E on Thu, 13 October 2016, 23:45:07
So beautiful...and new profile picShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/eynR4Lz.jpg)
nice what is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Chinese IBM Multistation spherical hi pros in a V60MTS that MattR modded with Alps SKCL Green. He was shooting to make it backlit but the desoldering process screwed up the backlighting as I remember.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 13 October 2016, 23:46:37
That must be my WTB, tactile alps green.
Man!!!!!!! so jelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They're the coolest! Though Alps plate spring is pretty cool too. ;)
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 00:05:59
Pretty much.So beautiful...and new profile picShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/eynR4Lz.jpg)
nice what is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Chinese IBM Multistation spherical hi pros in a V60MTS that MattR modded with Alps SKCL Green. He was shooting to make it backlit but the desoldering process screwed up the backlighting as I remember.
And now it's gonna be deja vu with the V80MTS w/ SKCL Amber. :P Jk I hope not lol. My soldering skills are much better now than they were then and I have a solder sucker so it shouldn't be nearly as bad. The pcb design still makes it much harder than normal as we've previously discussed.
No backlight this time btw. SKCL Amber is too damn rare to mod like that and it's 2x of a pain to desolder all the extra through holes necessary, to solder a ton of tiny resistors and drill out so many switch bottoms. The concept of a KBP Alps PCB even supporting backlighting hasn't even been proven yet thinking about it. I was the first and only to attempt it. When I have some cash to burn ill buy a used V60MTS and retry.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 October 2016, 00:08:55
V80MTS w/ SKCL AmberJust my $0.02 here but for the love of Alps, put the Ambers in a nicer board than a KBPV80. They're too rare to go into such an otherwise ordinary board :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 00:16:34
Don't have the money to throw at the keyboard space right now for an Alps custom. The thing is eventually I could get a Tex case and then you won't even be able to tell it's a V80 anymore.V80MTS w/ SKCL AmberJust my $0.02 here but for the love of Alps, put the Ambers in a nicer board than a KBPV80. They're too rare to go into such an otherwise ordinary board :p
For E3E keyboard money grows on tree's :p
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 October 2016, 00:23:56
Fair enough, Tex cases are so pricey though... I've been considering buying one for a while but then I just keep coming back to the fact that I can make a custom board for roughly the same price. I also can't justify the TKL form factor - I'm all about that 100%, 96-key or 60% lifestyle.Don't have the money to throw at the keyboard space right now for an Alps custom. The thing is eventually I could get a Tex case and then you won't even be able to tell it's a V80 anymore.V80MTS w/ SKCL AmberJust my $0.02 here but for the love of Alps, put the Ambers in a nicer board than a KBPV80. They're too rare to go into such an otherwise ordinary board :p
For E3E keyboard money grows on tree's :p
At this point, I'm considering trying to cast a case for a 96-key like Yoe's custom (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75278.0) from last year. There are far too many options...
Post by: zefyr on Fri, 14 October 2016, 00:25:23
What. Its SKCL Green. The board is my V60 wearing Multistation caps.Ah, my mistake. Dumb :-X
Post by: E3E on Fri, 14 October 2016, 00:32:42
Don't have the money to throw at the keyboard space right now for an Alps custom. The thing is eventually I could get a Tex case and then you won't even be able to tell it's a V80 anymore.V80MTS w/ SKCL AmberJust my $0.02 here but for the love of Alps, put the Ambers in a nicer board than a KBPV80. They're too rare to go into such an otherwise ordinary board :p
For E3E keyboard money grows on tree's :p
Not gonna lie, I stretch my budget a bit to make things work. Sometimes a bit too much, haha.
Personally, with ambers, I'd put them in another Leeku MXAlps 3000 PCB (those are incredibly hard to find now) with green plastic LEDs and put it in a Peacock WKL case or something. The FAME Cherry caps wouldn't match though.
It would have to be a back lit board though. For me, any rare linear needs to be used to its fullest potential. :P
I do need to cool it with spending, so I'd probably just put them in my other 60% hot swappable Eagle, since none of the tactiles have been my cup of tea with the CF plate. Too stiff, but it'll go great for linears.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 00:48:26
Yea. Those are all great potential boards but anything made in small number's is gonna call for a bigger price. I've been using this same tactic for a while. SKCL Green in a V60, SKCM Orange in a SGI, Model M in an industrial case, various MX switches in a old G80 etc. The Taobao stuff was going to be another version of this but then I found the Packard :thumb:Don't have the money to throw at the keyboard space right now for an Alps custom. The thing is eventually I could get a Tex case and then you won't even be able to tell it's a V80 anymore.V80MTS w/ SKCL AmberJust my $0.02 here but for the love of Alps, put the Ambers in a nicer board than a KBPV80. They're too rare to go into such an otherwise ordinary board :p
For E3E keyboard money grows on tree's :p
Not gonna lie, I stretch my budget a bit to make things work. Sometimes a bit too much, haha.
Personally, with ambers, I'd put them in another Leeku MXAlps 3000 PCB (those are incredibly hard to find now) with green plastic LEDs and put it in a Peacock WKL case or something. The FAME Cherry caps wouldn't match though.
It would have to be a back lit board though. For me, any rare linear needs to be used to its fullest potential. :P
I do need to cool it with spending, so I'd probably just put them in my other 60% hot swappable Eagle, since none of the tactiles have been my cup of tea with the CF plate. Too stiff, but it'll go great for linears.
Also would you do a 2:1 trade, 2 SKCL Ambers for a single SKCL Brown? Just want to round off my collection at this point. I think that's a pretty good deal :cool:
Fair enough, Tex cases are so pricey though... I've been considering buying one for a while but then I just keep coming back to the fact that I can make a custom board for roughly the same price.Yea those Tex cases can get very expensive. The true point is that with a new case made by whoever could completely obscure the fact that it's a V80. I could make my own who knows ;)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 09:47:54
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 14 October 2016, 10:04:35
If this is what you have done, how would you say that the greens with blue click leaves compare with blue Alps switches?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 14 October 2016, 10:15:46
Post by: chyros on Fri, 14 October 2016, 12:27:48
Ive been going through and swapping the white alps click leaves with blue alps click leaves on my alps64, The click modded greens feel and sound even better with the blue alps leaves.Cool, could you post a video or something with a side-by-side sound comparison? I'm trying to pin down the difference in sound and its origin in these switches.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 14 October 2016, 13:57:58
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 October 2016, 19:19:47
Does anyone have any extra springs for SKCM Blue Alps switches to sell? I need at least one (1), but I will take more if you have them to spare. I've also posted a WTB. Thanks!Yeah, I can help you out, PM your address and email and they're yours for the cost of shipping.
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 20:32:10
@mike52787: I've lost track. Did your alps64 have SKCL green Alps, which you then modded by swapping out the tops for those from white Alps along with white Alps click leaves? And now you have replaced the white Alps click leaves with blue Alps click leaves?I built my alps64 with SKCL greens harvested from a Sharp typewriter which I then modded with white alps click leaves and tops from a poor old focus 2001 that gave its life for the project. R.I.P. After modding the switches I installed them into my alps64 kit. Now what I am in the process of doing is swapping out the white alps click leaves with blue alps click leaves. I will post a video of a sound comparison soon.
If this is what you have done, how would you say that the greens with blue click leaves compare with blue Alps switches?
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 20:32:28
Will do!Ive been going through and swapping the white alps click leaves with blue alps click leaves on my alps64, The click modded greens feel and sound even better with the blue alps leaves.Cool, could you post a video or something with a side-by-side sound comparison? I'm trying to pin down the difference in sound and its origin in these switches.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 21:19:20
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 21:40:48
They sound very similar but the Blue's are better, although the White's aren't very far behind at all.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 October 2016, 21:42:47
Pingy and clicky, I like it :)Yeah, they're ever so slightly deeper sounding. Feels slightly better as well. They're both good, but I like the blues better.
They sound very similar but the Blue's are better, although the White's aren't very far behind at all.
Post by: blackriver on Fri, 14 October 2016, 22:08:03
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag355/NSCcreators/1014162301b_zpsjcz1qw5j.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/NSCcreators/media/1014162301b_zpsjcz1qw5j.jpg.html)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 14 October 2016, 23:59:46
Pingy and clicky, I like it :)Yeah, they're ever so slightly deeper sounding. Feels slightly better as well. They're both good, but I like the blues better.
They sound very similar but the Blue's are better, although the White's aren't very far behind at all.
Yeah, the blues have a more robust sound.
(http://i.imgur.com/ftCh8aQ.jpg)
You can probably tell which one is a blue leaf. They're much smoother looking.
It really comes down to the return spring and the click leaf. The slider and top housing are also important, especially the top housing for smoothness, but I'd say any first gen slider with a blue Alps click leaf and any light spring from SKCL Green, Orange, or Blue, would do it.
SKCM Brown also has a surprisingly light spring behind its stiff tactile leaf.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 00:38:13
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 15 October 2016, 00:59:31
you alps nerd! it's all about that mx blue click leaf. you need to try the green click leaf. it's like a heavier leaf. maybe a branch ...Last I checked... MX switches don't have click leaves, mwahahaha! Game. Set. Match. Checked!
all joking aside very cool how you can interchange parts like that and get new switch feelings. kinda wish MX did that. we just got the spring game on the other side - hello ---- adele
Yeah, it's quite amusing/useful; however, thanks to sprit soon will have springs as well :thumb:
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 15 October 2016, 07:23:06
@mike52787: Thanks for the explanation of the build history of your alps64 custom board.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 15 October 2016, 07:46:33
Theyre a bit deeper, but still just as pingy. The recording doesnt really do justice to the real sound of these switches.Thanks! The difference doesn't sound quite as pronounced in this case, as I had expected. This would suggest that the difference in sound in not just due to the click leaves, although they play a small part perhaps.
Also thanks Ethan, I hadn't noticed the smoothness of the blue click leaf. I'll be making close-up pictures like this as well hopefully, to document this in more detail.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 15 October 2016, 08:00:58
Theyre a bit deeper, but still just as pingy. The recording doesnt really do justice to the real sound of these switches.Thanks! The difference doesn't sound quite as pronounced in this case, as I had expected. This would suggest that the difference in sound in not just due to the click leaves, although they play a small part perhaps.
Also thanks Ethan, I hadn't noticed the smoothness of the blue click leaf. I'll be making close-up pictures like this as well hopefully, to document this in more detail.
No problem. :) Yeah, it's really subjective when it comes to the sound. To me, mike's modified greens sound very similar to blue Alps, but you seem to feel like there's still a difference. I'm not sure what to think. :-\
Greens have pretty much everything a blue Alps switch has: long switch plate, dry lubricant on the slider, a light spring. There's the top housing, which comes from an SKCM white, but it doesn't seem too different from an SKCM blue top.
The only thing that comes to mind at this point is the variations in color between top housings, like the bluish housings versus the black ones.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 15 October 2016, 09:09:38
No, I didn't intend to compare these to blue Alps. I wanted this video because I wanted to compare the sound white and blue click leaves make under comparable conditions. Doing them off-switch is a pretty good way of doing just that.Theyre a bit deeper, but still just as pingy. The recording doesnt really do justice to the real sound of these switches.Thanks! The difference doesn't sound quite as pronounced in this case, as I had expected. This would suggest that the difference in sound in not just due to the click leaves, although they play a small part perhaps.
Also thanks Ethan, I hadn't noticed the smoothness of the blue click leaf. I'll be making close-up pictures like this as well hopefully, to document this in more detail.
No problem. :) Yeah, it's really subjective when it comes to the sound. To me, mike's modified greens sound very similar to blue Alps, but you seem to feel like there's still a difference. I'm not sure what to think. :-\
Greens have pretty much everything a blue Alps switch has: long switch plate, dry lubricant on the slider, a light spring. There's the top housing, which comes from an SKCM white, but it doesn't seem too different from an SKCM blue top.
The only thing that comes to mind at this point is the variations in color between top housings, like the bluish housings versus the black ones.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 15 October 2016, 10:54:05
There can certainly be a major difference in feel between one type of leaf and another in a given Alps switch. Recently, I have swapped out the slider from the spacebar switch on two blue Alps boards, replacing it with the slider from a Matias Quiet swtich. The slider swap makes a pronounced difference in the sound of the spacebar. Initially, I had also swapped out the blue click leaf, replacing it with the Matias Quiet tactile leaf. However, the tactile leaf made the switch feel too heavy and the tactile bump felt too emphatic. So, I removed the Matias Quiet tactile leaf and reverted to the blue click leaf. This resulted in a lighter feel with a gentler tactile bump and a subtle click.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sat, 15 October 2016, 11:37:51
How much would removing the bolts entirely affect the feeling of the board when it's reassembled? Would i notice that they're gone?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 15 October 2016, 11:47:17
My heat gun isn't nearly powerful enough to assist me in getting rid of these soldered bolts.
How much would removing the bolts entirely affect the feeling of the board when it's reassembled? Would i notice that they're gone?
Would some ChipQuik work? It's a low temp solder meant to keep things fluid long enough for removing SMD components and other finicky stuff. It was great when trying to desolder SIP socketed boards with short sockets and it IS wonderful for SMD.
It might allow you to get all the solder out of the bolts.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sat, 15 October 2016, 12:12:31
Post by: E3E on Sat, 15 October 2016, 12:24:22
Looks like it would take a ton, there are like 5 heavily soldered bolts. I only spent 40 dollars on the entire board, spending 40 more dollars to get it apart would be a shame. It would work though, it's just probably cheaper to get a stronger heatgun lol. Mines 300w, so it probably gets to 500 ish degrees F. Not quite hot enough. There'a a 1200w 1000 degrees F heat gun on amazon for 20$. I'm just weighing whether or not it's worth just drilling out the bolts or getting a new heat gun.
Well, the thing with QuikChip is that it just take a small dab of the stuff for the solder to stay molten for a longer period of time. A tiny dab, heat it up, and get the solder sucker or pry apart when heated (not sure how these soldered bolts look though).
That gun sounds like it might be dangerously hot. I'd be afraid of it damaging some components. With something like QuikChip, you don't need a lot, it reduces soldering temperatures, and as a result, it stays molten much longer. You can literally move a part around for several seconds as opposed to the bond becoming almost instantly solid again the second you take heat away from it like with normal solder.
It really is worth it to have some. :) I think one pack would be more than enough to use for this, but you'd just have to not be excessive. You don't need a lot to get the desired result.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 12:42:56
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sat, 15 October 2016, 13:04:52
Looks like it would take a ton, there are like 5 heavily soldered bolts. I only spent 40 dollars on the entire board, spending 40 more dollars to get it apart would be a shame. It would work though, it's just probably cheaper to get a stronger heatgun lol. Mines 300w, so it probably gets to 500 ish degrees F. Not quite hot enough. There'a a 1200w 1000 degrees F heat gun on amazon for 20$. I'm just weighing whether or not it's worth just drilling out the bolts or getting a new heat gun.
Well, the thing with QuikChip is that it just take a small dab of the stuff for the solder to stay molten for a longer period of time. A tiny dab, heat it up, and get the solder sucker or pry apart when heated (not sure how these soldered bolts look though).
That gun sounds like it might be dangerously hot. I'd be afraid of it damaging some components. With something like QuikChip, you don't need a lot, it reduces soldering temperatures, and as a result, it stays molten much longer. You can literally move a part around for several seconds as opposed to the bond becoming almost instantly solid again the second you take heat away from it like with normal solder.
It really is worth it to have some. :) I think one pack would be more than enough to use for this, but you'd just have to not be excessive. You don't need a lot to get the desired result.
I guess i'll pick up a pack off amazon, what's the worse that could happen.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 15 October 2016, 14:57:54
https://shop.clueboard.co/
TKL set = $14.99
NumPad set = $4.99
Mechanicalkeyboards.com does not currently stock the WoB set. They carry Olivette and Dolch for $34.00 for a full 104 set, but Dolch is currently out of stock. The Clueboard price is the same as recently offered on Massdrop, but Clueboard carries this set as a regular item and they usually ship immediately. As far as I know, Clueboard is the only vendor that supplies separate TKL and NumPad sets for Alps-mount keycaps.
I received my TKL + NumPad sets today, and they included 5 extra novelty caps as compensation for a slight delay in shipping.
I have no financial interest in Clueboard. I was just excited to find another source of new Alps-mount keycaps and thought that the Alps Appreciation followers might like to know (for those who do not know already).
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 15 October 2016, 17:18:27
I've discovered a new source of Tai-Hao WoB doubleshot Alps-mount keycaps -- Clueboard:I saw those a while back when I was considering building a Clueboard - I just couldn't get behind the all-acrylic construction. What're you planning on using your Tai-Hao keycaps on? I used to have a set on my old AT101W (http://imgur.com/a/2TqR3) and they're not bad, you get a lot of bang for your buck; however, now that I've gotten used to PBT/thicker caps I don't think I could go back :p
...
I received my TKL + NumPad sets today, and they included 5 extra novelty caps as compensation for a slight delay in shipping.
For anyone that's tried both Tai-Hao and Matias' offerings before - how did they compare?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 15 October 2016, 18:29:03
However, recently, I have been acquiring vintage Alps boards, and I have learned to tolerate, and even enjoy, using the stock doubleshot ABS caps on some of them, at least until I can source PBT caps that I like.
What I have been doing on some of the vintage Alps boards is to populate the alpha keys with dye-sub PBT caps and fill in the remainder of the board with blank black ABS from Matias and/or doubleshot ABS caps from vintage boards or from new sets made by Tai-Hao. The blanks work especially well for me because I remap a number of the keys and it would be difficult to find the correct legends. I also like to have color symmetry, with the Backquote/Tilde and Backslash keys the same color as the modifiers.
I find that the quality of the blank black caps from Matias is fine for the modifiers and on par with the Tai-Hao doubleshot ABS caps.
A good source of a dye-sub PBT set for a full-size keyboard is the SGI "Bigfoot" series of keyboards. These have thick PBT caps of excellent quality in a winkeyless layout and standard OEM profile. The CapsLock is stepped, so the SGI set will work completely on the Leading Edge DC-3014. The only drawback for me with the SGI set is the Italic font. My own preference is a regular font. However, the SGI keyboards are relatively plentiful at fairly reasonable prices.
When I find time to snap some pics, I will post one or more of my favorite keycap schemes for some Alps boards.
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 15 October 2016, 18:38:39
However, recently, I have been acquiring vintage Alps boards, and I have learned to tolerate, and even enjoy, using the stock doubleshot ABS caps on some of them, at least until I can source PBT caps that I like.Have you considered trying to find a Dell AT101 (not 'W')? If you like the 5140's PBT dye-subbed legends, you'll probably like the AT101's since they're the same. Plus, you'd get a full matching set. Unfortunately, Dell AT101's are becoming scarce compared to their SGI AT101 counterparts. I also didn't realize the DC3014 is stepped the same way as an AT101 - I guess that makes sense since Alps Electric was behind both boards.
...
A good source of a dye-sub PBT set for a full-size keyboard is the SGI "Bigfoot" series of keyboards. These have thick PBT caps of excellent quality in a winkeyless layout and standard OEM profile. The CapsLock is stepped, so the SGI set will work completely on the Leading Edge DC-3014. The only drawback for me with the SGI set is the Italic font. My own preference is a regular font. However, the SGI keyboards are relatively plentiful at fairly reasonable prices.
What I have been doing on some of the vintage Alps boards is to populate the alpha keys with dye-sub PBT caps and fill in the remainder of the board with blank black ABS from Matias and/or doubleshot ABS caps from vintage boards or from new sets made by Tai-Hao. The blanks work especially well for me because I remap a number of the keys and it would be difficult to find the correct legends. I also like to have color symmetry, with the Backquote/Tilde and Backslash keys the same color as the modifiers.Ah, OK, that makes sense. I'll look forward to seeing those pictures. Also, duly noted about the quality - that's a bit disappointing since I find the modern Tai-Hao keycaps to be too thin for me. I was hoping Matias' offerings would be thicker.
...
I find that the quality of the blank black caps from Matias is fine for the modifiers and on par with the Tai-Hao doubleshot ABS caps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 19:35:36
For example I prefer the standard medium thickness ABS caps on my SKCM Blue Packard Bell vs SGI PBT's.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 19:49:08
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 19:51:37
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 19:54:21
My SGI granite feels really good. Glad I got the ps2 version. Might swap orange alps in it eventually. maybe in the SKCM greens since I could desolder them later.Does it have dampened whites or dampened creams?
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 19:54:54
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 19:55:20
knew itMy SGI granite feels really good. Glad I got the ps2 version. Might swap orange alps in it eventually. maybe in the SKCM greens since I could desolder them later.Does it have dampened whites or dampened creams?
too much of a gay person to check
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 15 October 2016, 19:55:47
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 16 October 2016, 07:52:07
An example: Recently, I pulled the dye-sub PBT caps from an IBM P70 Alps plate spring keyboard, and I discovered that the keycaps were the thinnest I had ever seen. They are so thin, I actually said out loud, "Wow! These caps are really thin!" They are like egg shells. I was afraid to grasp them too tightly for fear they would break. However, I tested them on a white Alps board, and they worked just fine. There was no detectable difference in sound, but the feel of the PBT was better than the feel of the stock ABS caps.
In contrast, I have had thick dye-sub PBT caps for Cherry mx that had problems with ill-fitting stems and thick walls that interfered with stabilizer wires.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sun, 16 October 2016, 11:06:29
I've been using dampened white and oh boy are they fun.My SGI granite feels really good. Glad I got the ps2 version. Might swap orange alps in it eventually. maybe in the SKCM greens since I could desolder them later.Does it have dampened whites or dampened creams?
These are all bindy and some are repeating a lot. Good thing i bought the board for caps
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 16 October 2016, 14:09:58
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Despite the mixed origins of the keycaps, the profiles match and the colors and textures are close enough not to be jarring to the eye, especially when in actual use rather than being scrutinized in a photo. I also don't notice the difference in keycap composition when typing because most of the time I am in contact with the dye-sub PBT alpha keys. I do, however, really appreciate the dry feel of PBT when I compare this setup with another keyboard that has stock doubleshot ABS caps on all of the keys.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 16 October 2016, 16:00:08
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 16 October 2016, 16:54:18
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 19:00:14
Also had an unexpected surprise. The SKCL Cream has a black switch plate :eek: Was not expecting that. The only other black switchplate switches I have are the SKCL Green from the 1984 dated Multistation. This implies that the Sharp typewriter the Cream came out of must be an early one as well and it's SKCL Greens also had black switchplates.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 16 October 2016, 19:10:07
So in anticipation toward the Tandem coming tomorrow I put the internals of a SKCL Cream into my SGI to get an idea of what they could feel like. At first the Cream felt too heavy but after a little bit I actually like them a lot. Unlike SKCL Green which can be a bit abrupt going down SKCL Cream has a cushion of sorts. A characteristic I have heard of other heavier linear switches like SKCL Brown.
Also had an unexpected surprise. The SKCL Cream has a black switch plate :eek: Was not expecting that. The only other black switchplate switches I have are the SKCL Green from the 1984 dated Multistation. This implies that the Sharp typewriter the Cream came out of must be an early one as well and it's SKCL Greens also had black switchplates.
Oh wow, is it coming in tomorrow? I didn't even notice. :eek:
Yuuuus, the cushion of heavier linears is one of my favorite aspects. Ambers have supreme cushion, but they ARE heavier than Alps SKCL Brown and Cream, so I too am concerned if they'll be too heavy. I don't think so though, I think it'll just be more cushion for the pushin', so to speak.
Playing around with the amber space bar using a single key once, it actually felt like an Alps switch that could feasibly be "floated" and held just above actuation point, whereas most other Alps switches are too light for that to be practical with the high actuation point.
Ahh yeah, I got black switchplate SKCL Greens from a Sharp Typewriter too! One I desoldered for a customer as well. I figure it must've been from 1984. The SKCL Compacts they came with also had black plates. I used a black switchplate to repair a chattery SKCL Brown once.
Pretty nifty. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 19:25:18
Yea, let's just hope they aren't too heavy, I also don't think they will be. It's going to be that little extra bit that side by side you would notice but after a week of use? By that point you wouldn't be able to tell. Let's also hope that I get the right one :PSo in anticipation toward the Tandem coming tomorrow I put the internals of a SKCL Cream into my SGI to get an idea of what they could feel like. At first the Cream felt too heavy but after a little bit I actually like them a lot. Unlike SKCL Green which can be a bit abrupt going down SKCL Cream has a cushion of sorts. A characteristic I have heard of other heavier linear switches like SKCL Brown.
Also had an unexpected surprise. The SKCL Cream has a black switch plate :eek: Was not expecting that. The only other black switchplate switches I have are the SKCL Green from the 1984 dated Multistation. This implies that the Sharp typewriter the Cream came out of must be an early one as well and it's SKCL Greens also had black switchplates.
Oh wow, is it coming in tomorrow? I didn't even notice. :eek:
Yuuuus, the cushion of heavier linears is one of my favorite aspects. Ambers have supreme cushion, but they ARE heavier than Alps SKCL Brown and Cream, so I too am concerned if they'll be too heavy. I don't think so though, I think it'll just be more cushion for the pushin', so to speak.
Playing around with the amber space bar using a single key once, it actually felt like an Alps switch that could feasibly be "floated" and held just above actuation point, whereas most other Alps switches are too light for that to be practical with the high actuation point.
Ahh yeah, I got black switchplate SKCL Greens from a Sharp Typewriter too! One I desoldered for a customer as well. I figure it must've been from 1984. The SKCL Compacts they came with also had black plates. I used a black switchplate to repair a chattery SKCL Brown once.
Pretty nifty. :)
That would confirm that those Sharp's have a good chance to have black switchplates along with the early Multistation's. I'd imagine there was a SKCL Cream under the space of that Sharp as well. At that point SKCC and SKCL were being produced at the same time which is a bit weird.
What exactly is the difference between SKCL Brown and Cream? Hmm.
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 20:59:11
Okay, wow. SKCM Brown has a seriously light spring.
I measured actuation at ~47.5 (9 nickles and a penny). Bottom out was at 50.
See the weird thing with Alps that makes it so hard to figure out a proper bottom out weight is, well... Sometimes the balance of the weight on the cap lets more or less weight sit on top of the switch before bottoming. I guess because of the weight distribution?
I could get it to bottom with 50 though, every time. So it is much lighter than SKCL Brown.
So we've got a spring that's pretty much on par with SKCL Green in an otherwise heavy switch. The leaf spring really does take up all the resistance.
Testing SKCL Brown again, it bottoms at 70g. So actuation for brown is 60g and it bottoms at 70.
I just necro'd this post, since I got to the same point but other way round. I just took two green switches and added tops and click/tactile leaves from SKCM blue and SKCM (canon) cream.
The result is heavier switches then their donors. Doing a slider-on-slider test and taking care they are aligned, clicky green is heavier than blue, white and amber. Tactile green is heavier than tactile cream, and is on par with tactile brown (two of the tactile browns actuate before, and two after the green). Conversely, without the tactile leaf, tactile cream is really, really light.
I guess, those heavier linears would feel pretty heavy when paired with tactile/clicky leaf.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 16 October 2016, 21:04:37
I'll do it tomorrow when I get the Tandem.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 16 October 2016, 23:49:30
Not all of the Sharp typewriters have black switchplates. I've seen grey ones too. I've dismantled about 3 or so, if I remember right. Two for a customer. One for me?
Yeah, well you has SKCC and SKCM cross over most likely during a transitional phase, I'd imagine.
Also, I'm not sure how SKCL Cream and SKCL Brown are different. They're nearly identical from what I've seen. It's just that SKCL Brown was made by Goldstar Alps (and so only seen in Korean boards) and SKCL Cream was made universally by Alps. I've never seen SKCL Brown used as a space bar switch; it's always been for standard keys.
Ooooh, someone should put a SKCM Brown tactile leaf into a SKCL Amber and see what results :eek:
I'll do it tomorrow when I get the Tandem.
You mean an amber spring in an SKCM Brown housing right? :P I think it'd feel about the same until you get past the tactile "ramp" of the leaf, but the spring under it should just make it feel crazy weighty.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 00:00:34
I will create the Alps switch on steroids!
Post by: E3E on Mon, 17 October 2016, 00:01:28
It can work either way. I'll do it your way since it's easier. Amber spring in a Brown.
I will create the Alps switch on steroids!
It's just that you can't put a brown tactile leaf into an amber. :)) At least not an SKCL Amber.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 00:34:08
I'll do it the other way though since it's easier lol.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 17 October 2016, 00:40:54
Obviously you would also need a SKCM top housing. Other than that I don't see what the problem would be.
I'll do it the other way though since it's easier lol.
Oh, duh. I was just thinking in literal terms, not in mike52787 breaking boundaries terms. :))
Post by: Quackles on Mon, 17 October 2016, 01:35:47
(http://i.imgur.com/9MFSoLv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/828UBFs.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 02:39:26
@E3E, ohaimark weighed an SKCL clear from his Panasonic board to be between 75-80 gf. That would be a bit higher than your measurement of 70gf for SKCL brown. Of course, this is all within a margin of error when taking into account state of the switch, measurement itself and so on.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 17 October 2016, 08:05:07
If you just soak them in warm water with some detergent it should become easy to peel of the stickers. At least it was this way with my m0115 and m0116 which both had stickers on their numpads.
@E3E, ohaimark weighed an SKCL clear from his Panasonic board to be between 75-80 gf. That would be a bit higher than your measurement of 70gf for SKCL brown. Of course, this is all within a margin of error when taking into account state of the switch, measurement itself and so on.
SKCL Clear, hehe.
Hmm, I weighed them myself and they came out to around the same weight, SKCL Cream/Brown. There is probably a margin of error, but I'd say they're similar! I'll have to weigh them again in bit to compare!
It's always a bit tricky when weighing with coins. :-X
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 12:32:48
SKCL Clear, hehe.
I actually re-read that sentence and thought that something seemed wronged, but I just couldn't tell what and dismissed it :))
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 18:01:54
The standard SKCL Amber's in the board have this red vertical stripe which I have not seen used on any other switch. This is different from the known "lipstick" since it is only a thin vertical line while the lipstick covers the whole top of the stem. This Amber is much lighter. Somewhere between SKCL Green and SKCL Brown. A bit more than SKCL Yellow i'd say.
The spacebar SKCL Amber (which we have known and has been found on many other SKCL Brown boards as the spacebar) is different! It's much heavier like SKCL Brown or Cream and doesn't have the red vertical stripe. That's how they tell the difference. Also the lock switch is Brown.
Pics:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZkMCRls.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tLsf3vQ.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 23:11:52
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 17 October 2016, 23:23:07
More
My Omnikey Dream Build ❤️:
(http://i.imgur.com/lnplQy8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lnplQy8.jpg)
Massive shout-out to fohat for helping make this happen; he sold me the board and did a great job painting the plate. I mean, my car got wrecked today (I wasn't driving it so I'm safe) but at least I have this :thumb:
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 23:29:50
Guys, guess what I finally started putting together?That green plate is gorgeous! fully customized omnikeys are so great. Are you planning on painting the case? what caps are going on that beauty?MoreMy Omnikey Dream Build ❤️:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lnplQy8.jpg)
Massive shout-out to fohat for helping make this happen; he sold me the board and did a great job painting the plate. I mean, my car got wrecked today (I wasn't driving it so I'm safe) but at least I have this :thumb:
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 17 October 2016, 23:34:46
That green plate is gorgeous! fully customized omnikeys are so great. Are you planning on painting the case? what caps are going on that beauty?I don't think I'll paint the case, this one is in really nice shape and so I wouldn't have anything to "hide." Hoping to find some Alps Electric double-shots for the alphas. The Japanese made AT101 I found (on Taobao) ended up being out of stock but I still have some OG Tai-Hao double-shots I could put on there in the mean time... Or AT101 PBTs... Or IBM 5140 PBTs... The point is I have options. I'll probably go with the AT101 PBTs since PBTs (in general) seem to sound really nice on this chassis when paired with Blues, we'll see. I'm still going to be pining for a Japanese Made AT101 with pine switches and Alps Electric double-shots, though, haha. I told the seller to let me know as soon as he finds one :p
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 17 October 2016, 23:37:54
I can sell you a set of alps electric alphas, Im not using them. They were the ones that were on my alps64 when you saw it. such nice caps. nice and thick.That green plate is gorgeous! fully customized omnikeys are so great. Are you planning on painting the case? what caps are going on that beauty?I don't think I'll paint the case, this one is in really nice shape and so I wouldn't have anything to "hide." Hoping to find some Alps Electric Double-shots for the Alphas. The Japanese made AT101 I found (on Taobao) ended up being out of stock but I still have some OG Tai-Hao double-shots I could put on there in the mean time... Or AT101 PBTs... Or IBM 5140 PBTs... The point is I have options. I'll probably go with the AT101 PBTs since PBTs (in general) seem to sound really nice on this chassis when paired with Blues, we'll see. I'm still going to be pining for a Japanese Made AT101 with pine switches and Alps Electric double-shots, though, haha. I told the seller to let me know as soon as he finds one :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 18 October 2016, 01:08:53
SKCL Striped Amber impressions:
They are in essence the perfect linear Alps switch. No bones about it. They have a cushion like SKCL Brown while not being too heavy. In terms of weight they are realy close to SKCL Yellow (while a bit heavier) but even so Yellow doesn't have the cushion. Yellow is an obvious descendant of Green while SKCL Striped Amber is basically the Goldilock of linear Alps switches. They really are that good. SKCL Green be damned! :P
E3E also described them to be the "nixdorf" of Alps since it has the stripe like how those nixdorf MX Black's have the clear housings. Extremely rare as well. No one else knows about this switch. Not even those random Japnese websites have this switch or the Tandem itself documented. The best linear Alps switch no one got basically.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 18 October 2016, 01:28:38
There's no prior documentation or photos of these anywhere at all. They are definitely "nixdorf rare," but then so is every switch up to Alps SKCL Brown (which I tier as one tick more common than pine SKCM Greens). These are probably a lot harder to find than nixdorfs. They just don't carry the obscene price. :P
I need to get some coins to measure these and SKCL Cream and Brown again. The striped ambers aren't too heavy, but the spring provides a real nice cushioning at the bottom of the stroke, which is one reason I like SKCL Brown so much.
Post by: edb5s on Tue, 18 October 2016, 08:24:08
https://www.amazon.com/GLIDEPOINT-KEYPAD-Numeric-Computer-TrackPad/dp/B0032NDNRO
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 18 October 2016, 09:01:39
Keyboard plugs/converters (purple) usually do not have the same wiring as mouse/pad (green) ones.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 18 October 2016, 09:06:01
Post by: edb5s on Tue, 18 October 2016, 09:30:46
Tht's known product. I can't remember what switches it has, but I think it was SKFL. Definitely not SKCL/SKCM though.
It's SKFS White: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKFR/SKFS_series
I'm wondering if I would have better luck with a serial to PS2 converter? Might try that.
Post by: ctm on Wed, 19 October 2016, 09:04:21
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 19 October 2016, 09:13:17
I find myself not enjoying linear switches as much as I expected.
Linear switches suck. I don't know why they even exist.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 19 October 2016, 09:16:55
Just built a board with Matias quiet linear using Infinity PCB and plate from Alps Party. However I find myself not enjoying linear switches as much as I expected.Thats not an infinity layout, but yeah, matias linears arent great. Use SKCL green if you want nice linears.
Post by: ctm on Wed, 19 October 2016, 09:33:33
Infinity 1.1 (with LED support) also supports ANSI layout. I think I am just not a linear switch fan in general. I find the tactile feedback to be necessary for me.Just built a board with Matias quiet linear using Infinity PCB and plate from Alps Party. However I find myself not enjoying linear switches as much as I expected.Thats not an infinity layout, but yeah, matias linears arent great. Use SKCL green if you want nice linears.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 19 October 2016, 10:09:58
I've tried Matias linear switches, and they had two problems for me. First, they were too light. Second, they were linear! They lacked the excellent tactile feedback of the Matias Click or Matias Quiet switches.
Although I like Matias Click and Matias Quiet switches, they aren't as refined as Alps switches in good to excellent condition. At the moment, I favor SKCM blue and SKCM white Alps switches. These have just the right amount of tactile feedback and a relatively subtle click. I still have high hopes for Matias. I hope they will iron out the kinks in their switches and perhaps eventually introduce improved versions that could rival vintage Alps.
As for damped vs. undamped Alps or Alps clones, I prefer undamped. However, I have swapped out the sliders on some of my Alps boards with damped sliders from Matias Quiet switches, but I've kept all of the other parts of the Alps switches, including the return spring and tactile/click leaf. I thought that I might like a hemi-damped slider with damping only on the return stroke, but when I clipped the bottom dampers on some Matias Quiet switches, I was not pleased with the result.
In general, I prefer tactile or tactile/clicky switches to linear switches, but based on what I've read and tried, if I were to use a linear switch, it would most likely be Alps. At the moment, I have two boards with linear Alps waiting in the wings for refurbishing -- one has SKCL green and the other has SKCL yellow. When I eventually get around to making these boards fully operational, I will post my impressions.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 19 October 2016, 10:20:34
Edgar Matias maintains that all Cherry mx switches are inherently linear; some claim to be tactile by grafting a bump onto the slider and others achieve clickiness by adding a clicker. I tend to agree with him, so that for me, the best Cherry switches are the ones that are billed as linear, unfettered with tactile or clicky add-ons. However, I find contemporary linear Cherry switches lack smoothness. Gateron seems to have addressed this, and if I were going to use a linear mx switch, I would choose Gateron yellow for a good blend of actuation and bottoming-out weights along with smooth operation.Yes, I agree with this completely. It's very obvious that the Cherry system was designed to be linear. Although this is also true for Alps, they went through much greater lengths to adapt that system for tactility and clickiness. Cherry switches, most definitely modern ones, are really bad; rough, scratchy, and badly weighted. Gateron black switches feel much smoother for sure, but their quality control is abysmal.
Post by: mushman on Wed, 19 October 2016, 10:31:03
I still have high hopes for Matias.
I don't. QC problems, lack of repair facilities, no official voluntary communication or updates, etc.
I think they are finished.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 19 October 2016, 11:28:38
I find myself not enjoying linear switches as much as I expected.
Linear switches suck. I don't know why they even exist.
I LOVE clicky keys. However, I do find that linear are nice to game with. I find that with anything requiring constant key press, linear switches make it fun to lightly hover/bounce in the region between the top of the keypress and bottoming out.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 19 October 2016, 11:34:47
I typed my thesis on SKCL green.
I find myself not enjoying linear switches as much as I expected.
Linear switches suck. I don't know why they even exist.
I LOVE clicky keys. However, I do find that linear are nice to game with. I find that with anything requiring constant key press, linear switches make it fun to lightly hover/bounce in the region between the top of the keypress and bottoming out.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 19 October 2016, 12:46:30
linear switches make it fun to lightly hover/bounce in the region between the top of the keypress and bottoming out.
Oh, I get that. I was being silly to provoke people.
I bought my teenage son a Filco TKL with black switches and O-rings.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 19 October 2016, 13:25:55
SKCM Brown and Green are very interesting curiosities because of how atypical they are. Yeah, Alps was inventive.
Also, just restored one of several IBM 5576-002s that came in from China.
(http://i.imgur.com/43cDJrZ.jpg)
They've got nice double dye-subbed PBT caps (blue sublegends like the Chinese Multistation's caps; the more typical Japanese version is all black) that are also two-piece designs much like you see on some Model Ms. The PCB is flexible and incredibly thin in order to work with the bent plate. The caps have no sculpt or stepping profile. The board has NKRO.
(http://i.imgur.com/NdBTWXq.jpg)
The layout is very awkward, but kind of a fun challenge to type on. :D
I am DEFINITELY going to need an ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning caps at this rate. I don't know how I had the patience to restore all my Xerox boards like that.
As someone who also has an IBM P70, the plate-mounted variant is so much better to type on. It's also worth noting that the switch housings are different for plate mount vs PCB mount plate spring switches. The area that houses the slider is the same between them both, but the bottom housing is specific to the mounting style, and PCB switches cannot fit into plates.
I was going to say the plate was only .6mm thick, but that seemed very wrong, haha. Yeah, I didn't have my calipers zero'd correctly.
Post by: streetwizzur on Wed, 19 October 2016, 13:58:10
(http://i.imgur.com/ZtxfoyP.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 19 October 2016, 14:04:52
Quote
<snip>
<snip>
I typed my thesis on SKCL green.
So, your thesis is completed then?
Post by: rm-rf on Wed, 19 October 2016, 14:24:35
(http://i.imgur.com/ArBkJ7t.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 19 October 2016, 17:10:39
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 19 October 2016, 17:14:26
Post by: E3E on Wed, 19 October 2016, 17:44:25
Very awkward layout but kind of fun to make do. Once my adapter for PS/2 to DIN 5 comes in, I'll see if I can't do something with my Soarer's converter.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 19 October 2016, 18:10:36
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 19 October 2016, 18:13:01
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 19 October 2016, 18:26:43
Just finished this today, SKCM creams are so good
Post by: E3E on Wed, 19 October 2016, 18:54:06
Do Alps plate spring switches have to be PCB-mounted?
There are two variants (as far as I have personally seen anyway), the plate-mount version and the PCB-mount version. The bottom housing of these switches is what separates them from each other. The P70 has these PCB-mount switches, and they have two fixing pins that are soldered on the PCB. These can't mount into a plate at all.
Then there are the plate-mount versions, which I think only show up in the IBM Japan Alps plate spring keyboards (5576-001 and 002). I have yet to see them in detail, but one of the 5576-002s I have received is incomplete and missing keys and switches, so I plan to dismantle that one.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Wed, 19 October 2016, 18:54:32
Post by: Quackles on Wed, 19 October 2016, 23:45:20
If you just soak them in warm water with some detergent it should become easy to peel of the stickers. At least it was this way with my m0115 and m0116 which both had stickers on their numpads.
Thanks for that, the stickers came off pretty easily. The keycaps look to be in great condition too!
(http://i.imgur.com/K3xTjMX.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 21 October 2016, 22:31:59
Lost two switches in the process though :( 1 had the slider's inside ripped out so no cap will fit, and two had broken off stems stuck in their sliders. I got one off but other one is a goner since the previous owner had tried to glue the original cap back on and it's stuck inside as a result. Maybe if I let it soak in something to remove the glue I could get it off. Unlikely since it's really on there.
Also got a SKCL Brown from E3E. Nice switch. Very similar to SKCL Striped Amber but just heavier. Normal SKCL Amber is heavier still. So 3 new additions to the switch tester. Filled to the brim. Will post pics when I desolder the Tandem.
Pics
(http://i.imgur.com/9XYgcp3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dOH51VP.jpg)
Post by: adevriesc on Fri, 21 October 2016, 23:01:27
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 21 October 2016, 23:02:33
Post by: lootbag on Fri, 21 October 2016, 23:10:30
It took a while but I decided to build the an Alps64 and I am glad I did.
CAD my own SS plate and had a shop in Shenzhen produce it for me, it only cost about 12USD.
I only like the HHKB layout.
Bought the cheap generic plastic case from Taobao.
Still need to order a AT101 for the keycaps though.
Linear greens are perfect, slightly heavier than Topre 45g but less then Topre 55g, exactly what I am looking for.
Smooth and just the right amount of mechanical noise when I need a break from my silenced HHKB.
(http://i.imgur.com/I46XMGG.jpg)
Post by: pabile on Sat, 22 October 2016, 01:12:08
Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
Post by: lootbag on Sat, 22 October 2016, 01:17:21
@lootbag would you mind sharing where you got your plate? i guess shipping to PH will be cheaper from your locI got it from Taobao, there are shops that offer the service and just send them a CAD file and choose what material you want.
Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 22 October 2016, 01:34:40
(http://i.imgur.com/GOoVEDn.jpg)
Post by: pabile on Sat, 22 October 2016, 02:38:16
I got it from Taobao, there are shops that offer the service and just send them a CAD file and choose what material you want.
thanks
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 22 October 2016, 10:12:08
Additional close up shot of SKCL Striped Amber :)Do they have tall grey, tall white, or tall black switchplates? Do you know their place in the timeline?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GOoVEDn.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 22 October 2016, 12:00:08
They have tall grey plates. The board was made in 1987, and the switches are lubed so they are first generation. Given their strong relationship to SKCL Brown I'd say it is in the same place as them timeline wise.Additional close up shot of SKCL Striped Amber :)Do they have tall grey, tall white, or tall black switchplates? Do you know their place in the timeline?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GOoVEDn.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 22 October 2016, 17:50:43
Post by: E3E on Sat, 22 October 2016, 20:57:06
With SKCL Brown, I'd imagine anywhere from 1986-1989. My Tandem with SKCL Browns was from 1987. The Striped Amber one is from 1986.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 23 October 2016, 00:33:50
On my Xeroxes, some of the ICs had a double digit code in the number stamped on them that gave away the year, like 91, 90, 89, etc. Look for something like that on the ICs to get an approximate date.IC?
With SKCL Brown, I'd imagine anywhere from 1986-1989. My Tandem with SKCL Browns was from 1987. The Striped Amber one is from 1986.
Post by: djpyle on Sun, 23 October 2016, 01:00:34
(http://i.imgur.com/0mW16qR.jpg)
Full album here: http://imgur.com/a/muJvc
I'm already itching to do something more with my salmons and on the hunt for some orange and/or blue switches. I've been using Matias switches (both Click and Quiet Click) for about five years now but only got into vintage switches in the last few months. I love the click-modded salmons to death, but click-modded creams are a nice compromise, quiet enough that I can use them while my wife and kids are sleeping but still nice and clicky.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 23 October 2016, 01:18:35
That board looks awesome. I actually like the color of those dyed caps. Give off a very SGI-y vibe.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 23 October 2016, 01:26:14
On my Xeroxes, some of the ICs had a double digit code in the number stamped on them that gave away the year, like 91, 90, 89, etc. Look for something like that on the ICs to get an approximate date.IC?
With SKCL Brown, I'd imagine anywhere from 1986-1989. My Tandem with SKCL Browns was from 1987. The Striped Amber one is from 1986.
Integrated Circuits
(http://i.imgur.com/CwKPovj.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/lB8UVFJ.jpg)
These are from my 1996 Xerox Docutech keyboard (before I restored it, which is why it's a little funky :P).
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 23 October 2016, 02:47:19
Post by: Quackles on Sun, 23 October 2016, 03:02:51
Some of you may have seen this already, but I just finished a big (for me) AEKII project, and I'm loving the results!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0mW16qR.jpg)
Full album here: http://imgur.com/a/muJvc
I'm already itching to do something more with my salmons and on the hunt for some orange and/or blue switches. I've been using Matias switches (both Click and Quiet Click) for about five years now but only got into vintage switches in the last few months. I love the click-modded salmons to death, but click-modded creams are a nice compromise, quiet enough that I can use them while my wife and kids are sleeping but still nice and clicky.
Really great work, was in awe when I saw it on Reddit. Was the Apple logo used a sticker or from the case of an AEK?
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 23 October 2016, 07:55:25
Some of you may have seen this already, but I just finished a big (for me) AEKII project, and I'm loving the results!Thats beautiful. Great work!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0mW16qR.jpg)
Full album here: http://imgur.com/a/muJvc
I'm already itching to do something more with my salmons and on the hunt for some orange and/or blue switches. I've been using Matias switches (both Click and Quiet Click) for about five years now but only got into vintage switches in the last few months. I love the click-modded salmons to death, but click-modded creams are a nice compromise, quiet enough that I can use them while my wife and kids are sleeping but still nice and clicky.
Post by: djpyle on Sun, 23 October 2016, 09:14:56
Some of you may have seen this already, but I just finished a big (for me) AEKII project, and I'm loving the results!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0mW16qR.jpg)
Full album here: http://imgur.com/a/muJvc
I'm already itching to do something more with my salmons and on the hunt for some orange and/or blue switches. I've been using Matias switches (both Click and Quiet Click) for about five years now but only got into vintage switches in the last few months. I love the click-modded salmons to death, but click-modded creams are a nice compromise, quiet enough that I can use them while my wife and kids are sleeping but still nice and clicky.
Really great work, was in awe when I saw it on Reddit. Was the Apple logo used a sticker or from the case of an AEK?
Thanks! It's the logo from the original case. I traced it onto the wood and Dremeled out a depression for it so it could sit more flush with the case. It wasn't the neatest job, but you can't really see how sloppy it is unless you look closely, and I like having it on there. :)
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 24 October 2016, 17:33:49
For example, the return springs in SKCM white switches are shorter than those in Matias Click switches. Alps return springs can be the same length but have a different number of coils. Some are silver-colored while others are gold-colored, etc.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 24 October 2016, 17:54:58
I found an "86" one one of those with a Texas Instruments (?) logo next to it.
Sounds like it's from 1986 at least. That sounds about right for these switches. They're not as early SKCL Greens as far as I can tell.
Alps Return Springs: Is there a compilation somewhere of the differences and similarities of Alps return springs, both across different Alps switch types (and clones) and within a given switch type?
For example, the return springs in SKCM white switches are shorter than those in Matias Click switches. Alps return springs can be the same length but have a different number of coils. Some are silver-colored while others are gold-colored, etc.
There's an incredible amount of variation in the springs. I can say that in -most- blue Alps I've come across with long white switch plates, there are usually shiny and slightly shorter springs. Older versions with grey switch plates usually have a color range from dull to gold-tinged.
Salmons usually have gold-tinged springs, but not all the time. I've seen gold and silver springs in the same batch.
Bamboo generation switches have shorter springs than their pine counterparts, though they seem to have more coils.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 24 October 2016, 19:12:56
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 25 October 2016, 00:17:38
Post by: E3E on Tue, 25 October 2016, 00:21:32
Show Image(https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwOi8vaS5pbWd1ci5jb20vMUpBNmR5RC5qcGcifQ.ImPNn5R9n5bHl3ISlrmokYUY9-o?width=2000&height=1692)
Alps SKCL Brown, SKCL Cream, SKCM Cream (unless that's it just above damped?), and SKCL Striped Amber are apparently on another plane of reality, not able to be perceived by mere mortal alpinists. :P Neon Green is the gateway.
Also, Razer Alps... Hahaha.
Wait a second, SKCL Cream is depicted as "damped alps," haha. Oh boy. I can't tell if cream is damped or typical. Why am I analyzing this so much? I'm ruining the fun. :b
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 01:28:52
And SKCL Striped Amber is king.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 25 October 2016, 08:41:18
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 09:08:21
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 09:45:13
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 25 October 2016, 12:13:27
Show Image(https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwOi8vaS5pbWd1ci5jb20vMUpBNmR5RC5qcGcifQ.ImPNn5R9n5bHl3ISlrmokYUY9-o?width=2000&height=1692)
Why is yellow alps so much lower than green? Aren't they basically the same, other than yellow being a bit heavier?
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 25 October 2016, 14:09:19
Show Image(https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwOi8vaS5pbWd1ci5jb20vMUpBNmR5RC5qcGcifQ.ImPNn5R9n5bHl3ISlrmokYUY9-o?width=2000&height=1692)
You like ambers more than blue alps too :D
Black<Cream Dampened<Salmon<Ivory<Orange≈Brown
Pine razer greens (lol) sound perfect if they really are in-between Oranges and Browns.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 25 October 2016, 14:11:19
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 14:12:07
Post by: E3E on Tue, 25 October 2016, 22:20:39
Oh my.
I need to find another Multistation set.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 25 October 2016, 23:05:32
(http://i.imgur.com/plNWioE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZvSztGN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PZ0oxeP.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Wed, 26 October 2016, 00:25:01
I wonder why Chinese caps had those blue legends.
(http://i.imgur.com/noIA56L.jpg)
Like, the hiragana and such on the Japanese caps don't have an alternate color, nor do the Korean caps I've seen on IBM 5576-002 boards.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZERickT.jpg)
I wonder what the difference is between these here and the above ones. I know there are several different writing systems for Chinese text input. I think the IBM ones are Simplified Chinese, but I really can't be sure.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 26 October 2016, 03:57:36
SKCL Hotdog
SKCL Ketchup 'n' Mustard
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 07:35:52
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 26 October 2016, 11:00:54
The XT-like layouts on the LE DC-2014 and the Zenith Z-150 are actually not bad at all, and they lend themselves to remapping to a HHKB-like layout. For example, there is a short Right Shift with a */PrtSc key to its right that serves nicely as a Fn key, and the elongated Right Bracket works well as a Backspace.
[attachimg=1]
I have had a bias toward clicky or tactile switches, and I didn't expect to like the linear green Alps. However, I do like them. They are extremely smooth. The Zenith board also feels very solid; it doesn't have a hollow plastic sound like the LE DC-2014 (although I like it as well -- it is "thocky" like my HHKB). On the other hand, I find that I am missing some keystrokes and getting unintentional additional keystrokes, perhaps because of the absence of tactile or clicky feedback. I tried turning on the beep from the internal speaker (Alt+Esc), but I found this distracting and turned it back off.
I am considering doing a click mod on the Zenith, using click leaves and top housings from white Alps switches. If I don't like the result, it is readily reversible. I would like to clean the switches anyway, because I am getting some chattering on some keys, which I hope can be eliminated with cleaning.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 11:27:01
Post by: chyros on Wed, 26 October 2016, 11:29:48
I have had a bias toward clicky or tactile switches, and I didn't expect to like the linear green Alps. However, I do like them. They are extremely smooth.This is exactly what I had at first as well :p . I didn't like any linear switches until I tried linear Alps, and now I have several linear switches I really love. In fact I've heard the exact same story from quite a few members now, they hate linears until they tried linear Alps.
I know Cherry has a reputation for making inherently linear switches, but the way I see it, they're not even good at that because their linear switches suck ass; they're badly weighted and scratchy as hell; the two things most important for linear switches. Green or linearised Alps have perfect weighting and are smooth as ****.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 26 October 2016, 11:52:41
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:01:58
Post by: zslane on Wed, 26 October 2016, 12:25:10
[attachimg=1]
Post by: E3E on Wed, 26 October 2016, 13:34:36
Multistation caps are awesome because they are spherical. Unfortunately mixing them with cylindrical mods (that don't even match color-wise) looks awful. To my mind, a better alternative would be a full DSA set with ALPs stems. Can't wait for my LightCycle DSA set!
(Attachment Link)
Haha, yes. I agree. The reason I mixed them with the Alps DCS modifier pack is because my 60% build relies on Cherry stabilizers due to the plate I'm using. I might have lasergist cut a steel plate or try a little idea for PCB-mount, removable Alps stabilizers I had to make them work with this plate.
Multistation keys could work, but you'd have to reuse tab for the pipe/backslash key, and unfortunately, left shift for the Enter key, but it would look pretty okay.
I've got an order for Lightcycle too, but the difference is that the Multistation caps and other sets like it are sculpted hi profile key caps, of which there are no real alternatives for Alps. D:
I have had a bias toward clicky or tactile switches, and I didn't expect to like the linear green Alps. However, I do like them. They are extremely smooth.This is exactly what I had at first as well :p . I didn't like any linear switches until I tried linear Alps, and now I have several linear switches I really love. In fact I've heard the exact same story from quite a few members now, they hate linears until they tried linear Alps.
I know Cherry has a reputation for making inherently linear switches, but the way I see it, they're not even good at that because their linear switches suck ass; they're badly weighted and scratchy as hell; the two things most important for linear switches. Green or linearised Alps have perfect weighting and are smooth as ****.
My first mechanical keyboard was linear, so they quickly became a switch type I felt at home on. I seldom make mistakes on linear switches, but when I was first getting used to them, I would fat finger and also accidentally actuate keys on the lighter switches.
Take off your clicky and tactile training wheels and learn true switch discipline with linears! :thumb:
Post by: zslane on Wed, 26 October 2016, 14:06:51
Multistation caps and other sets like it are sculpted hi profile key caps, of which there are no real alternatives for Alps. D:
Yeah, tell me about it. When it comes to Alps, our keycap choices are severely limited, especially if we're fans of sphericals.
For my own part, I don't entirely mind uniform row3 keys on 60% boards. I tried SA on one of my Pok3rs once and didn't really care for it (even though I love SA on my full-size boards). So I can live quite happily with DSA on my KBP V60 mini.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 26 October 2016, 14:14:07
But as Winston Churchill famously said, "…it is better to be both right and consistent. But if you have to choose—you must choose to be right."
The DSA profile is consistent, but for me it just isn't right. I need a sculpted profile, both for aesthetics and function. I cannot type well on a flat profile like DSA, and I like the look of varying row heights as in OEM, Cherry, Leopold, DCS, and SA, or as achieved via a curved plate in IBM Model F and Model M keyboards.
I wish I could type well on DSA, as this would certainly increase my keyset options for Alps-mount keyboards.
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 26 October 2016, 14:17:58
I was thinking about picking it up and modding it to fit into a spare X60 case that I'll have.
Is $220 a good price or should I try and get it for lower?
Post by: zslane on Wed, 26 October 2016, 14:23:01
The DSA profile is consistent, but for me it just isn't right. I need a sculpted profile, both for aesthetics and function. I cannot type well on a flat profile like DSA, and I like the look of varying row heights as in OEM, Cherry, Leopold, DCS, and SA, or as achieved via a curved plate in IBM Model F and Model M keyboards.
Yeah, I hear you.
And in general I am of a similar mind in that I prefer SA because it is (usually) sculptured. I don't know why I don't have an issue with DSA on 60% boards. It isn't logical. But there it is.
But even if I disliked a uniform R3 profile (on 60% boards), I'd still take DSA over any cylindrical keyset, sculptured or not. I simply do not type on cylindricals. Full stop.
Which is why my V60 mini sits in a corner, unused, awaiting LightCycle DSA. I'd rather not use it at all than type on cylindricals.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 26 October 2016, 14:31:42
Post by: zslane on Wed, 26 October 2016, 14:47:39
That glorious age was sundered to ruin in 1981 when IBM brought its desktop plague to the world. I have been suffering ever since. So you can imagine the joy I feel for the resurgent availability of SA and DSA keycaps today.
I think the only keyboard I really liked in the last 30 years, despite its cylindrical keycaps, was the AEKII. Hence my interest in Alps switches. But Alps or no Alps, if I'm gonna type on it now, it has to have sphericals.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 26 October 2016, 15:13:49
I'd have to say that SA is somewhat laughable compared to Alps spherical sculptured key caps, which are more scooped and have a very nice sculpt to them. Oh, and a nice texture too!
Do we have any concrete examples of vintage/pre-enthusiast era keyboards that actually used SP's SA key caps? I've been trying to find an example, but I haven't had any luck. I've seen both DSA and DCS, but not SA.
I think sculpted sphericals look and feel good on certain keyboards; lower profile keyboards is where they are most at home, in my opinion. Uniforms sphericals, especially low-profile ones like DSA, are more at home on keyboards with sharp inclines, and stepped cylindrical is kind of a happy medium, but not ideal for flat keyboards or those with a slight incline.
Post by: tomboy on Wed, 26 October 2016, 15:37:32
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vJWoyGc.jpg)
Oh my.
I need to find another Multistation set.
ooooh, I want those caps so bad
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 17:06:07
There's an Alps64 build with SKCL greens and a set of SGI caps for $220 on /r/mechmarket right now.Thats a pretty good price, I would snag it!
I was thinking about picking it up and modding it to fit into a spare X60 case that I'll have.
Is $220 a good price or should I try and get it for lower?
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 19:58:43
Also now that ive sold my G80 and traded my Model M literally all my keyboards are Alps :p
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 20:04:19
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Wed, 26 October 2016, 20:23:26
Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?
The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 26 October 2016, 20:40:37
I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.
Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?
The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.
If you didn't appreciate nice switches you wouldn't have come to this thread in the first place ;) Caps are nice enough that the Kingsaver was designed around them but you will quickly learn how bad black alps are.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 20:41:35
I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.Just wait to buy one off ebay, you may get lucky and get one with salmons or even oranges. The wang 725-3770 is a great board, with sweet pbt dyesubs, awesome build quality, and NKRO.
Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?
The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 20:58:05
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 21:26:04
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 26 October 2016, 21:34:00
The Wang uses Pine SKCM Black i'm pretty sure. Still not as good as SKCM Salmon or Orange though.Wangs can use Pine black, salmon, or orange, and the lock led switches can be yellow or green.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 27 October 2016, 05:46:43
I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.
Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?
The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.
If you didn't appreciate nice switches you wouldn't have come to this thread in the first place ;) Caps are nice enough that the Kingsaver was designed around them but you will quickly learn how bad black alps are.
Fair enough on the first part, but an AT101W with black alps i got for 3 bucks convinced me to never buy cherry again, don't undersell them too much!
As for everyone else, thanks for the info, I'll consider my options. Finding one with orange alps would be lifechanging, but I'm never that lucky :'(
Post by: E3E on Thu, 27 October 2016, 05:50:51
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 05:58:08
I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.
I assume you got it on ebay for ~$90 BIN. I was waiting with a low snipe and planned putting in my loose oranges XD. Hope it serves you well ;)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 06:09:56
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 06:15:26
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 27 October 2016, 07:04:32
I've just realized that the best switches I've tried on a keyboard are the ALPS SKCM Dampened Cream switches.
I've heard the feels of Matias Quiet-Click may be able to resemble these dampened cream switches. Is it really so? And how similar are they?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 27 October 2016, 07:31:13
I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.The Wang is built quite well. Pine black Alps are nothing like the later bamboo ones, they're quite nice switches really.
Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?
The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.
Relevant reviews:
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 07:51:18
Pine blacks are pretty nice. I don't know if it has those. I only have bamboo blacks in one board, and that's a really well kept AT101W, and they are pretty shallow, kind of like what some here described salmons to be, but maybe a bit more scratchy, or lets say "noisy" under the finger.Salmons have a nice defined tactile bump, theyre not as much of a "bumpy road" as the black I tried. I belive the black I tried was a bamboo black, so not sure if that changes anything. In my experience I would say that salmons are more related to oranges.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 07:55:32
Hi the ALPS people here!Matias switches as a general rule arent as good as vintage alps. I have tried both and prefer the creams, even though I didnt like either that much. I much prefer dampened whites to dampened creams or matias QC. Matias switches are based on the later simplified alps design, where as the creams use the complicated switchplate design. Also, matias have alot of wobble compared to vintage alps, which doesnt really mean anything, but still is worth mentioning.
I've just realized that the best switches I've tried on a keyboard are the ALPS SKCM Dampened Cream switches.
I've heard the feels of Matias Quiet-Click may be able to resemble these dampened cream switches. Is it really so? And how similar are they?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 27 October 2016, 08:14:30
Bamboos are completely different from pines. Pine blacks feel remarkably like salmons.Pine blacks are pretty nice. I don't know if it has those. I only have bamboo blacks in one board, and that's a really well kept AT101W, and they are pretty shallow, kind of like what some here described salmons to be, but maybe a bit more scratchy, or lets say "noisy" under the finger.Salmons have a nice defined tactile bump, theyre not as much of a "bumpy road" as the black I tried. I belive the black I tried was a bamboo black, so not sure if that changes anything. In my experience I would say that salmons are more related to oranges.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 27 October 2016, 09:05:27
I have been looking for a panel mount mini usb for awhile now, where did you get yours?The panel mounts I have been using are micro-USB rather than mini-USB:
[attachimg=1]
http://www.datapro.net/products/usb-micro-b-panel-mount-extension-cable-m-f.html
They have various lengths of cables. I have used either 1-ft or 2-ft, depending on the configuration of the keyboard.
These work beautifully on the Northgate Omnikey 101 with an Orihalcon/Soarer internal converter, which has a micro-USB connector. The cable on the panel-mount micro-USB connector provides plenty of strain relief to prevent damage to the converter. It turns out that the mounting holes for the panel-mount micro-USB line up perfectly with the holes that are already drilled in the case for the mini-DIN6 connector.
@menuhin: Matias switches are okay. I find the Matias Quiet switch to be more tactile than damped Alps cream. However, in general, I prefer undamped switches. To me, damping the downstroke makes the switch feel mushy. So, regarding Alps cream, I prefer undamped cream, as found in the ANSI version of the non-ADB NeXT keyboard. Likewise, among Matias switches (Click, Quiet, and Quiet Linear), I prefer the Matias Click, but they are very noisy and they wobble, which seems to add to the overall rattle of a Matias-Click board. I am considering a "top mod" of my V60MTS-C board -- I am still experimenting with which of the exchangeable Matias parts to swap with Alps parts (slider, return spring, and tactile/click leaf) in an attempt to make the Matias switches more refined.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 09:18:18
I must try them then! is the tactile leaf different or is it just because of the tops?Bamboos are completely different from pines. Pine blacks feel remarkably like salmons.Pine blacks are pretty nice. I don't know if it has those. I only have bamboo blacks in one board, and that's a really well kept AT101W, and they are pretty shallow, kind of like what some here described salmons to be, but maybe a bit more scratchy, or lets say "noisy" under the finger.Salmons have a nice defined tactile bump, theyre not as much of a "bumpy road" as the black I tried. I belive the black I tried was a bamboo black, so not sure if that changes anything. In my experience I would say that salmons are more related to oranges.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 27 October 2016, 09:57:45
You never know with Alps xD . Watch the review though, it shows the difference quite well.I must try them then! is the tactile leaf different or is it just because of the tops?Bamboos are completely different from pines. Pine blacks feel remarkably like salmons.Pine blacks are pretty nice. I don't know if it has those. I only have bamboo blacks in one board, and that's a really well kept AT101W, and they are pretty shallow, kind of like what some here described salmons to be, but maybe a bit more scratchy, or lets say "noisy" under the finger.Salmons have a nice defined tactile bump, theyre not as much of a "bumpy road" as the black I tried. I belive the black I tried was a bamboo black, so not sure if that changes anything. In my experience I would say that salmons are more related to oranges.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:15:34
Bamboos are completely different from pines. Pine blacks feel remarkably like salmons.Pine blacks are pretty nice. I don't know if it has those. I only have bamboo blacks in one board, and that's a really well kept AT101W, and they are pretty shallow, kind of like what some here described salmons to be, but maybe a bit more scratchy, or lets say "noisy" under the finger.Salmons have a nice defined tactile bump, theyre not as much of a "bumpy road" as the black I tried. I belive the black I tried was a bamboo black, so not sure if that changes anything. In my experience I would say that salmons are more related to oranges.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance, as i'm not entirely sure how to tell which is which, but does that 1995 wang come with Bamboo or Pine? There is a shadow in the Dell video over the area you were pointing to lol. I understand it has to do with slits but I've no clue what that really means
Edit: found a post from may saying they're bamboo
I enjoyed Bamboo, as soon as i can i'll put it back on my desk instead of my Granite with dampened whites to get a feel for them again.
Also great videos, i had totally forgotten that project L was in a Wang
Post by: chyros on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:28:53
They're pine. AFAIK the Wangs never came with bamboos.Bamboos are completely different from pines. Pine blacks feel remarkably like salmons.Pine blacks are pretty nice. I don't know if it has those. I only have bamboo blacks in one board, and that's a really well kept AT101W, and they are pretty shallow, kind of like what some here described salmons to be, but maybe a bit more scratchy, or lets say "noisy" under the finger.Salmons have a nice defined tactile bump, theyre not as much of a "bumpy road" as the black I tried. I belive the black I tried was a bamboo black, so not sure if that changes anything. In my experience I would say that salmons are more related to oranges.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance, as i'm not entirely sure how to tell which is which, but does that 1995 wang come with Bamboo or Pine? There is a shadow in the Dell video over the area you were pointing to lol. I understand it has to do with slits but I've no clue what that really means
Edit: found a post from may saying they're bamboo
I enjoyed Bamboo, as soon as i can i'll put it back on my desk instead of my Granite with dampened whites to get a feel for them again.
Also great videos, i had totally forgotten that project L was in a Wang
Basically pine = slits, bamboo = no slits. The pine switches are of an older variety, which with Alps almost invariably means better. The very earliest ones had especially long slits, too. MouseFan came up with the terminology.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 11:41:49
Post by: E3E on Thu, 27 October 2016, 13:07:49
They're pine. AFAIK the Wangs never came with bamboos.
Basically pine = slits, bamboo = no slits. The pine switches are of an older variety, which with Alps almost invariably means better. The very earliest ones had especially long slits, too. MouseFan came up with the terminology.
This is where I pretend to know french and say "au contraire," my friend. :b I've actually only heard of the Wangs having bamboo blacks, not pines, but I'd imagine maybe the earliest SKCM Black models had pine unless it jumped into them past the transition point.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 27 October 2016, 13:25:09
@Chyros and E3E: Any idea when Wang made the transition to bamboo blacks? I have an NIB Wang that I think was made in 1995.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 13:29:31
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 27 October 2016, 13:43:15
Post by: chyros on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:10:31
****, I must've misremembered, I think you're right.They're pine. AFAIK the Wangs never came with bamboos.
Basically pine = slits, bamboo = no slits. The pine switches are of an older variety, which with Alps almost invariably means better. The very earliest ones had especially long slits, too. MouseFan came up with the terminology.
This is where I pretend to know french and say "au contraire," my friend. :b I've actually only heard of the Wangs having bamboo blacks, not pines, but I'd imagine maybe the earliest SKCM Black models had pine unless it jumped into them past the transition point.
@alienman82: I don't like cherries. They smell and taste like benzaldehyde. ;)1995 sounds very bambooey. I'd be quite surprised if you could fine a pine 1995 board.
@Chyros and E3E: Any idea when Wang made the transition to bamboo blacks? I have an NIB Wang that I think was made in 1995.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:13:15
Regarding your "Clickfoot" Dell, were those pine or bamboo black Alps?
Post by: graefeln on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:19:06
Right now, I am thinking of trying to get some SKCM Orange for one, either SKCL Yellow or Brown for another, and maybe SKCM Cream/White for the third. Was hoping to hear some opinions though.
Normally, I love Topre and usually can't stick with anything MX for too long (I try because of all the nice caps/cases)... I do have some Zealiostotles coming.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:30:33
@Chyros: Dang! Guess I'll feed those 1995 Wang switches to the Pandas.All the modified Dells were bamboo. The only pine SKCM black board I own is the old-logo one.
Regarding your "Clickfoot" Dell, were those pine or bamboo black Alps?
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 27 October 2016, 19:17:53
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 19:25:44
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 19:38:29
Post by: romevi on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:02:26
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2Hw3AHz.jpg)
Nice Alps board.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:07:50
Post by: romevi on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:09:20
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2Hw3AHz.jpg)
Nice Alps board.
was a joke
Same.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:10:50
Post by: E3E on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:17:20
Cleaning the SKCL Striped Amber's and the normal spacebar Amber has a black switchplate while the striped's all have gray. Interesting.
I need to check mine out. I haven't gotten around to desoldering it yet
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:19:36
Post by: fublamchu on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:19:51
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:20:40
IGNORED BECAUSE JEALOUSCleaning the SKCL Striped Amber's and the normal spacebar Amber has a black switchplate while the striped's all have gray. Interesting.
I need to check mine out. I haven't gotten around to desoldering it yet
don't ignore the lovely DGE
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:21:13
So I am aware that the IBM PC 5140 has Brown ALPS, but are there any other notable boards with tactile Brown ALPS that I should be on the lookout for?Magnavox videowriter can come with brown alps as well. 2 best known sources.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 27 October 2016, 21:24:53
So I am aware that the IBM PC 5140 has Brown ALPS, but are there any other notable boards with tactile Brown ALPS that I should be on the lookout for?
Xerox 6085 keyboard (most), Magnavox Videowriter (not guaranteed), then some even more obscure Texas Instruments keyboards (Texas Instruments OPTI 900 Model 931 VDT), and a Yamaha LK201 clone.
These latter two are almost never seen and the Xerox 6085 keyboards aren't very common either.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 27 October 2016, 22:16:04
(http://i.imgur.com/rs7UKol.jpg?1)
Also opened and cleaned all the Striped Amber's. Great condition, just a bit dusty. Also if you notice it seems the stripes were put on by hand, there not consistent verses if it was done by a machine.
(http://i.imgur.com/sA4Xwpv.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 27 October 2016, 23:21:07
My IBM 5576-002 motherlode. Finally restored. Took weeks to get them all gleaming again, but it was worth it. These are awesome boards.
A great example of yellowing thanks to the Tandem.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rs7UKol.jpg?1)
Also opened and cleaned all the Striped Amber's. Great condition, just a bit dusty. Also if you notice it seems the stripes were put on by hand, there not consistent verses if it was done by a machine.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/sA4Xwpv.jpg)
Oh most certainly, they were no doubt marked by hand. I feel like Striped Ambers are something we won't be seeing much of at all.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 02:09:59
I feel like Striped Ambers are something we won't be seeing much of at all.
Which is sad really since it's such a great switch. Hope to see more Tandem's in the future. I'm pretty sure these were a exclusive switch for Tandem.
Also it makes sense they choose Amber as the slider color. They likely had a surplus of SKCL Amber parts which explains the age discrepancy between the spacebar Amber and the Striped ones in my board. The conversation was likely: Crap, we have a special order for a custom weighted switch, what should we use? Oh, how about some of the old Amber stock. We'll mark them so we can tell them apart rather than manufacturing a whole new part just for it.
Post by: sek1ne on Fri, 28 October 2016, 02:27:53
Post by: E3E on Fri, 28 October 2016, 02:34:47
I feel like Striped Ambers are something we won't be seeing much of at all.
Which is sad really since it's such a great switch. Hope to see more Tandem's in the future. I'm pretty sure these were a exclusive switch for Tandem.
Also it makes sense they choose Amber as the slider color. They likely had a surplus of SKCL Amber parts which explains the age discrepancy between the spacebar Amber and the Striped ones in my board. The conversation was likely: Crap, we have a special order for a custom weighted switch, what should we use? Oh, how about some of the old Amber stock. We'll mark them so we can tell them apart rather than manufacturing a whole new part just for it.
I don't know, those are a lot of assumptions to make. It's possible though. It's not exactly truly custom weighted, since SKCM Blues are the same exact weight without their click leaves (and SKCM Blue has a unique weight unless SKCM Cream is truly the same weight as advertised). If it truly was a hodge podge of SKCM Blue springs and SKCL Amber housings, then lol. I don't even.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 28 October 2016, 13:49:18
So I am aware that the IBM PC 5140 has Brown ALPS, but are there any other notable boards with tactile Brown ALPS that I should be on the lookout for?
Xerox 6085 keyboard (most), Magnavox Videowriter (not guaranteed), then some even more obscure Texas Instruments keyboards (Texas Instruments OPTI 900 Model 931 VDT), and a Yamaha LK201 clone.
These latter two are almost never seen and the Xerox 6085 keyboards aren't very common either.
AT&T UNIX PC7300 keyboards also had SCKM Browns, but they go for big bucks.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 14:18:21
Oh yea, forgot about the Blue connection. Comparing Blue and Striped Amber springs, they aren't the same. The Amber springs resembles a Green spring more than a Blue one. I did just put a blue spring in a Amber however and they feel the exact same nonetheless! It might as well have been a hodge podge lol.I feel like Striped Ambers are something we won't be seeing much of at all.
Which is sad really since it's such a great switch. Hope to see more Tandem's in the future. I'm pretty sure these were a exclusive switch for Tandem.
Also it makes sense they choose Amber as the slider color. They likely had a surplus of SKCL Amber parts which explains the age discrepancy between the spacebar Amber and the Striped ones in my board. The conversation was likely: Crap, we have a special order for a custom weighted switch, what should we use? Oh, how about some of the old Amber stock. We'll mark them so we can tell them apart rather than manufacturing a whole new part just for it.
I don't know, those are a lot of assumptions to make. It's possible though. It's not exactly truly custom weighted, since SKCM Blues are the same exact weight without their click leaves (and SKCM Blue has a unique weight unless SKCM Cream is truly the same weight as advertised). If it truly was a hodge podge of SKCM Blue springs and SKCL Amber housings, then lol. I don't even.
But using extra stock of Ambers to create a new switch for Tandem? Seems possible.
Post by: quasistellar on Fri, 28 October 2016, 15:34:48
I've got an old apple m0116 with orange alps on. I really like the way it feels and was wondering about adapters you can buy or diy. Honestly they're really nice switches.
I believe Hasu sells them. I bought one and it works great.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 28 October 2016, 15:40:48
So I am aware that the IBM PC 5140 has Brown ALPS, but are there any other notable boards with tactile Brown ALPS that I should be on the lookout for?
Xerox 6085 keyboard (most), Magnavox Videowriter (not guaranteed), then some even more obscure Texas Instruments keyboards (Texas Instruments OPTI 900 Model 931 VDT), and a Yamaha LK201 clone.
These latter two are almost never seen and the Xerox 6085 keyboards aren't very common either.
AT&T UNIX PC7300 keyboards also had SCKM Browns, but they go for big bucks.
Yeah, if not for the IBM 5140s and Magnavox Videowriter boards, tactile browns would be really hard and expensive to get a hold of.
Oh yea, forgot about the Blue connection. Comparing Blue and Striped Amber springs, they aren't the same. The Amber springs resembles a Green spring more than a Blue one. I did just put a blue spring in a Amber however and they feel the exact same nonetheless! It might as well have been a hodge podge lol.
But using extra stock of Ambers to create a new switch for Tandem? Seems possible.
Yeah, the Striped Amber springs do look more like Green springs with their dull appearance. I -think- I've seen SKCM Blues with dull springs before, but I'm not sure. Either way, SKCL Ambers themselves are not common at all, so to have a whole batch thrown together and retrofitted for a particular batch of boards... Is pretty surprising and pretty awesome, haha.
They are definitely my favorite linear along side SKCL Brown and would probably be the average favorite among a lot of people after having them try every linear Alps switch back to back since it occupies a very pleasant middle ground.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 28 October 2016, 15:42:07
I -think- I've seen SKCM Blues with dull springs before, but I'm not sure.Correct, I'll be showing SKCM blues with dull springs in a few weeks ;) .
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 28 October 2016, 17:03:58
[attach=1]
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 17:35:55
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 17:41:08
(http://i.imgur.com/ehuiJTB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gBNF7rp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bW75k3K.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eYvMZit.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rbyrWb1.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 17:46:16
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 18:39:14
I think so, you were early on. Memorable people I traded with are you, Chryos and E3E. I'm sure I'm missing one or two others.Jesus, its complete :eek:
hey! I think I was a part of that ?!
This took 1.5 years to complete.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 28 October 2016, 18:44:12
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 18:57:31
Don't you need SKCL Grey? :eek:Yea, but I filled up all the available spaces (and had to make room by having the Lock on the side and taking out a clone) so it's pretty much complete.
I'm cool with it. If I ever get a hold of a Grey awesome but otherwise it's pretty damn good right now.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 28 October 2016, 18:59:29
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 28 October 2016, 19:40:11
on a more serious note, has anyone tried this before?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 28 October 2016, 19:49:15
Recieved my NTC mini, really cool board. It has a plastic plate, which is making me think. Im really contemplating desoldering it and trying to install leds in holes in the plate. Will this be a way to get a backlit alps board with SKCM switches? Will I desolder it? find out at 11. :p
on a more serious note, has anyone tried this before?
I mean, if you put the LEDs in the rows between the switches, sure, but there's no way to get a true in-switch backlt SKCM switch. You could definitely put LEDs in any open areas though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 29 October 2016, 19:50:28
I think it's just b/c SKCL Green is almost more common than Yellow so people just went with that.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 29 October 2016, 21:09:03
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KSwAAOSwZtJW-2YK/s-l1600.jpg) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/232127062019)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 29 October 2016, 21:14:48
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 29 October 2016, 21:16:22
I don't really get the bad rap of SKCL Yellow, they are still a good switch. In fact, it's one of the only 2nd gen switches that didn't get significantly worse compared to the first. There only a tiny bit rougher and a bit heavier, and some people might like that second part.
I think it's just b/c SKCL Green is almost more common than Yellow so people just went with that.
Thanks for the help! Still am yet to try yellows, I love greens but find them a bit light at times.
Post by: pabile on Sun, 30 October 2016, 05:26:34
i was able to read all 86 pages of this thread but could not remember if this was mentioned already... sorry.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 30 October 2016, 06:15:43
does older (pine) non-clicky tactile alps switches have those double bumps that matias quiet clicks and bamboo blacks have?Yes, they do, it's caused by the switchplate. That said, I've found it to be more prominent in Matias switches than in complicated Alps.
i was able to read all 86 pages of this thread but could not remember if this was mentioned already... sorry.
Post by: pabile on Sun, 30 October 2016, 06:31:21
Yes, they do, it's caused by the switchplate. That said, I've found it to be more prominent in Matias switches than in complicated Alps.
thanks, chyros. any idea why these double bump not felt on clicky variant?
Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
Post by: chyros on Sun, 30 October 2016, 06:49:33
Yes, it's because clicky Alps switches are more tactile than tactile switches, so you kinda shoot down further when going over the tactile bump. Therefore, you go over the (minute) second bump at higher speed, and you won't notice it as much.Yes, they do, it's caused by the switchplate. That said, I've found it to be more prominent in Matias switches than in complicated Alps.
thanks, chyros. any idea why these double bump not felt on clicky variant?
Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
Post by: pabile on Sun, 30 October 2016, 06:57:55
Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
Post by: chyros on Sun, 30 October 2016, 08:18:06
thanks again, chyros. that makes a lot of sense. ...i hope matias could make a switch that could match/align those bumps.Basically, you're asking them to make complicated Alps xD . Many of us here wish that that were the case xD .
Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
Post by: pabile on Sun, 30 October 2016, 09:49:24
Basically, you're asking them to make complicated Alps xD . Many of us here wish that that were the case xD .
it is sad that this is more far fetched than new PBT caps for alps :(
Post by: chyros on Sun, 30 October 2016, 10:34:15
In all fairness, they're called "complicated" Alps for a reason ;) .Basically, you're asking them to make complicated Alps xD . Many of us here wish that that were the case xD .
it is sad that this is more far fetched than new PBT caps for alps :(
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sun, 30 October 2016, 11:21:52
In all fairness, they're called "complicated" Alps for a reason ;) .Basically, you're asking them to make complicated Alps xD . Many of us here wish that that were the case xD .
it is sad that this is more far fetched than new PBT caps for alps :(
How many parts does a fully disassembled switch have, 12? It's amazing they managed to keep it up so long, frankly
Post by: chyros on Sun, 30 October 2016, 11:25:39
10-13, depending on the model. The switchplate comprises six parts.In all fairness, they're called "complicated" Alps for a reason ;) .Basically, you're asking them to make complicated Alps xD . Many of us here wish that that were the case xD .
it is sad that this is more far fetched than new PBT caps for alps :(
How many parts does a fully disassembled switch have, 12? It's amazing they managed to keep it up so long, frankly
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 30 October 2016, 11:45:45
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 11:52:53
I've discovered that the simplified Matias switch is not necessarily less prone to error or damage than complicated Alps switches. I manged to mangle the contact leaf in a Matias Click switch when reassembling it after swapping out exchangeable parts. Thus far, I have not experienced such mishaps with complicated Alps switches.
Weren't all simplified ALPS clones known for being rather hard to assemble because of that? I know that I had a lot of trouble with this on ALPS.tw clones.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 30 October 2016, 12:08:56
This situation reminds me of an opt-repeated quote attributed to Einstein:
“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.”
The implication is that if things are made too simple, they can end up being wrong or not working.
I suppose a laudable goal in designing and building any machine is not to make it complicated or simple, but to optimize it.
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 30 October 2016, 12:22:15
This could very well be. I do not have any direct experience as yet with other types of simplified Alps or simplified Alps clones.
This situation reminds me of an opt-repeated quote attributed to Einstein:
“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.”
The implication is that if things are made too simple, they can end up being wrong or not working.
I suppose a laudable goal in designing and building any machine is not to make it complicated or simple, but to optimize it.
Having that said, the goal of Matias' switch is not to be dissembled and reassembled by end-users. I haven't dissembled any switch but as I know the best switch I've tried belongs to the ALPS complicated family (the quite common dampened cream) and that the Matias are mediocre, I am feeling a bit hopeless in getting back that keyboard experience.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 30 October 2016, 12:41:15
@menuhin: Yes, excellent points! We who mod do so at our own risk. The current generation of Matias switches may be mediocre, but to me at least, they are far better than any Cherry mx switch. I still hold out hope that Matias will introduce improved versions of their switches. In the meantime, or alternatively, there is much to be enjoyed in the Alps world by acquiring vintage Alps boards and refurbishing them and/or using them to harvest switches for a custom build. I am typing this on my Northgate Omnikey 101 with cleaned and lubed switches, and it is marvelous. I only wish it were a 60% keyboard -- for this, I need to find the time and pull together the materials to make a custom board.
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 30 October 2016, 13:47:54
@menuhin: Yes, excellent points! We who mod do so at our own risk. The current generation of Matias switches may be mediocre, but to me at least, they are far better than any Cherry mx switch. I still hold out hope that Matias will introduce improved versions of their switches. In the meantime, or alternatively, there is much to be enjoyed in the Alps world by acquiring vintage Alps boards and refurbishing them and/or using them to harvest switches for a custom build. I am typing this on my Northgate Omnikey 101 with cleaned and lubed switches, and it is marvelous. I only wish it were a 60% keyboard -- for this, I need to find the time and pull together the materials to make a custom board.
That's very interesting to see Mr. Hypersphere (you made those silenting precision-cut discs right?) talking about ALPS but not Topre switches all the time.
It's a very different game you guys play in this thread.
There are the mainstream users or collectors here on GH, mostly on Cherry MX boards, talking about key caps and key sets and lube and mods. Or some of them like Topre more.
There are those very rare buckling springs enthusiasts.
There are a handful of great hardware builders or code developers that build things from almost the ground up, designing every single pieces sometimes if they can't buy them.
You guys in this threads are like... 'Necromancers' spotting dead or undead keyboards, mutilate them, and dissect their switches further to harvest the essence of their vital organs. And by putting parts of these mutilated hosts together, a keyboard is revived and perhaps functions better than its previous glory.
I remember when I was an undergrad, I had to take some courses in the computer science department. And I would find excuses to get in the handful of UNIX labs, and not the usual pizza-aroma-filled labs. All because I fancied the SGI Onyx and SGI Indigo and alike, and their smoothest granite keyboard and mouse. I really enjoyed using them - quiet and tactile and smooth. They have some ALPS there like a few earlier Apple and Dell keyboards as I read from here.
For ALPS, I hope I can play around with more caps though - not the necromancer way. I'm planning to build a JD45 or a 60% from ALPS. And I really want to get some selected colorways on this ALPS board. The only hope right now is 3D printings some of the ALPS-to-MX adapters.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 30 October 2016, 14:00:13
At present, I am obsessed with Alps, especially after discovering that it is possible to modify them relatively easily by opening their tops without having to desolder the switches. As Halloween approaches, it is a good season to think of Frankenswitches!
However, Topre remains one of my all-time favorite switches, and the HHKB is still my all-time favorite keyboard. (This might change when I finally get the F62 replica I've ordered through Ellipse's GB!). [Stated in the interests of full disclosure, despite this being the Alps Appreciation Thread].
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 30 October 2016, 14:26:18
It's a very different game you guys play in this thread.
There are those very rare buckling springs enthusiasts.
You guys in this threads are like... 'Necromancers' spotting dead or undead keyboards, mutilate them, and dissect their switches further to harvest the essence of their vital organs. And by putting parts of these mutilated hosts together, a keyboard is revived and perhaps functions better than its previous glory.
You might find considerable overlap between Alps enthusiasts and buckling spring lovers.
While the Alps projects usually revolve around manipulating the switches themselves, Model M/F projects are usually refurbishing the keyboard as a whole.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 14:31:54
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 15:06:02
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 30 October 2016, 15:20:36
but IBM caps are already amazing. alps different story generally speaking of courseYes! Similarly for Topre caps, as found on the HHKB and RF87U, among some others.
Oddly enough, today I put a set of dye-sub PBT alphas from an IBM 5140 on my Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps, and although the PBT feels better than the stock ABS caps, the IBM caps don't bottom out in the same way. I prefer the sound of the stock caps on the Northgate, and not surprisingly, the IBM alpha caps aren't as good a color match with the F-keys and NumPad keys.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 15:32:11
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 30 October 2016, 17:57:30
although the PBT feels better than the stock ABS caps
In my opinion, the one and only *GREAT* type of PBT caps available for ALPS are the old Apple caps with the stupid font and impossible function row.
For people who like blanks, however, just dye them all black and you are set - provided that you like yellow space bars!
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 30 October 2016, 18:43:28
@Mattr567: It would be great if you could run off copies of your Alps switch sampler and put them up for sale. In any event, it is fun to admire the pics you've posted.The thing is that for a majority of the switches I only have one of them, like SKCM Brown or SKCL Cream etc so I can't really run off copies. I have extras of Orange, Salmon, Blue, Green Yellow, Cream and White Dampened only.
Also when I first read your comment I thought you meant to run off copies of the pictures and sell them! Lol :))
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 30 October 2016, 19:21:34
Post by: Radlife on Sun, 30 October 2016, 23:29:33
Thanks
Post by: pabile on Mon, 31 October 2016, 00:16:34
Hey everyone, newbie to alps switches here. I got Hasu's pcb coming and some orange alps on hand. I have some questions. Where would I find a 60% plate? I understand that I would have to get it custom cut, so where would I find the files? I heard that dry lube would help the older switches? Finally, for stabilizers, would a set of matias stabilizers be okay? From here: https://matias.store/products/stabilizer-and-hook-setyou should have acquired fr-4 non-steel plate from hasu as well. i think his plate is nice. i use it on my alps64 build. it only comes in aek layout though. or... cut the plate from where you got your oranges?
Thanks
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 31 October 2016, 07:56:09
Hey everyone, newbie to alps switches here. I got Hasu's pcb coming and some orange alps on hand. I have some questions. Where would I find a 60% plate? I understand that I would have to get it custom cut, so where would I find the files? I heard that dry lube would help the older switches? Finally, for stabilizers, would a set of matias stabilizers be okay? From here: https://matias.store/products/stabilizer-and-hook-setHere is a link to open source 60% Alps plates:
Thanks
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/open-source-60-alps-plates-t14038.html
You can get them cut by Big Blue Saw:
https://www.bigbluesaw.com/big-blue-saw/big-blue-saw-special-info/waterjet-and-laser-cut-keyboard-plates.html
Post by: pabile on Wed, 02 November 2016, 07:50:28
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161102/ffc655858880c7c4ad87ce342336c601.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 November 2016, 07:54:16
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 08:06:01
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 02 November 2016, 08:16:03
That's normal for AT101Ws. It's not the end of the world
I wouldn't say "normal" but a significant percentage (~1/3) have many or all of the pins bent over.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 November 2016, 08:29:02
Really? I must've had over two dozen AT101Ws (well technically AT102Ws) by now and every single one I looked at had all the pins bent Oo .
That's normal for AT101Ws. It's not the end of the world
I wouldn't say "normal" but a significant percentage (~1/3) have many or all of the pins bent over.
Post by: pabile on Wed, 02 November 2016, 08:34:30
I wouldn't say "normal" but a significant percentage (~1/3) have many or all of the pins bent over.
...i am not sure if i should be glad that i was able to acquire an uncommon at101w with 100% bent pins or cry since i wanted is to desolder its switches :'(
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 02 November 2016, 08:59:33
Yes, I like the build quality of the Apple PBT caps. In addition to the other quirks, however, I would add the profile and the D and K homing keys.
although the PBT feels better than the stock ABS caps
In my opinion, the one and only *GREAT* type of PBT caps available for ALPS are the old Apple caps with the stupid font and impossible function row.
For people who like blanks, however, just dye them all black and you are set - provided that you like yellow space bars!
Along with Apple and IBM 5140, other Alps-mount keycaps of similar quality (IMO) are those found on the following boards: SGI Bigfoot series, Wang 725-3770, and some Zenith Z-150. And if you like really thin caps with a thick font, there is the IBM P70.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 02 November 2016, 08:59:57
The good news is that AT101 boards are fairly sturdy and you can usually get them all up and off without doing too much damage.
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 09:07:06
I would LOVE to get a standard 60% layout carbon fiber plate, but is that something that has been done/might be done? Then I could throw it in a 60% case. Not sure.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 09:27:56
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 09:31:42
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 09:40:13
I suppose I forgot about the whole stabilizer issue. I am not firm on a carbon fiber plate though, so I guess any plate works. As long as I can just throw the board into whatever 60% case I decide on and use the tai hao caps if possible, I will be happy.So I've got enough green alps to make a 60%. What options do I have when it comes to building a board? I also have a set of those WoB alps caps from tai hao.
I would LOVE to get a standard 60% layout carbon fiber plate, but is that something that has been done/might be done? Then I could throw it in a 60% case. Not sure.
if you get one of the universal carbon fiber plates, it will use MX staps which means it's more suited towards SP caps made for alps. I know that is what E3E did for his couple of 60% builds.
If you can find someone to cut a custom plate, then you should be able to get any layout / stab type done really.
If I was building a custom alps 60% I would probably use priginal caps like SGI and maybe dye them all black.
You have options with alps, it's just a bit frustrating compared to the amount of cherry options.
Though I do remember E3E stating that carbon fiber wasn't best suited for green SKCL, but I may be wrong. He can shine light on this when he wakes up haha.
Post by: pabile on Wed, 02 November 2016, 09:45:38
Make sure that you have an effective solder sucker.
l learned this the hard way. i think i have a fairly good sucker now. (hmm... that didnt sound right.)
One other thing with bent pins, I found it easier to first do a pass without the solder sucker. Just use soldering iron to liquify the tin, and use tweezers to bend the pin upright while tin is in liquid form. After that first pass, go about it the usual way.
i was actually thinking otherwise. what do you think if i suck all solder on first pass then run another pass pushing the bent pins to loosen it? with a cutter perhaps since i dont think my tweezers are thin enough to slide through the pins and pcb.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 02 November 2016, 10:12:44
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 02 November 2016, 10:14:40
My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.
I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?
There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.
I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?
I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 10:27:38
@pabile I found out that there is usually not enough soldering tin to transfer the heat to it if you go the other way round. Granted, I don't have the best soldering iron, but I found it easier to do it the way I described. Also, watch out that tweezers or whatever you use for bending pins bag is not sharp/hard as you can scratch the PCB. Usually it shouldn't do any damage, but it's better to be safe then sorry.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 November 2016, 10:31:57
So, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.That's a lot of questions.
My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.
I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?
There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.
I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?
I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.
1) Clicky Alps are very loud. Louder than MX blue for sure, but the noise isn't as piercing. In fact the noise is pretty amazing.
2) Tactile Alps still make a fair bit of noise. The people in my office didn't mind it when I used one, but it's far from silent.
3) Dampened Alps are very quiet, among the quietest mechanical switches. Still not as quiet as cheap rubber domes, though.
4) Topre switches and dampened Matiases are also very quiet.
5) Personally I like orange and salmon Alps the best, and black Alps the least (although pine ones are still very nice). Dampened ones are a bit hit-and-miss; some people like them, others don't. The feel is quite different from normal tactile Alps switches.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 02 November 2016, 10:32:16
Although I like Matias switches (but not Matias keyboards), I like vintage Alps much more, and I applaud your interest in doing a custom build.
The sound of a switch depends upon the switch itself and the keyboard in which it is installed. However, in general, clicky Alps are not as loud as clicky Matias switches, tactile Alps are usually not as loud as clicky Alps, and damped Alps are usually not as loud as clicky or tactile Alps. If you bottom-out your keystrokes as I do, and if you want quiet, then you may wish to go for a damped switch (although I find the damping to result in a somewhat mushy feel).
My V60 Matias Quiet board is almost as quiet as my silenced and lubed Topre-switch RF87U or HHKB Pro 2.
Take a look at the Alps SKCL/SKCM series wiki on DT:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
This tells you a great deal about each type of Alps switch, and it has links to the keyboards that have the various kinds of switches.
You may wish to try some vintage boards to help you decide which switch type you want for your custom build.
Best wishes!
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 10:53:55
So, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.SKCM Cream = best
My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.
I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?
There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.
I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?
I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.
Post by: pabile on Wed, 02 November 2016, 11:07:36
@pabile I found out that there is usually not enough soldering tin to transfer the heat to it if you go the other way round. Granted, I don't have the best soldering iron, but I found it easier to do it the way I described. Also, watch out that tweezers or whatever you use for bending pins bag is not sharp/hard as you can scratch the PCB. Usually it shouldn't do any damage, but it's better to be safe then sorry.
thanks for the input. i'll your suggestion on the first row. if everything goes well, i'll proceed. will let you know :)
@menuhin i personally dont like damped alps switches. that double bump kills it. i am currently experimenting on modded matias qc. matias qc with clicky leaves from alps clone. it's damped but with supressed click without the 2x bump. i kind of like it and will try it on my 2nd alps64 from hasu.
Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 02 November 2016, 11:15:52
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:18:53
MoreSKCM Cream = bestSo, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.
My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.
I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?
There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.
I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?
I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.
SKCM Cream == Cream dampen ?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:20:59
No, they also made undamped versions which are closely related to SKCM orange and salmon.MoreSKCM Cream = bestSo, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.
My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.
I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?
There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.
I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?
I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.
SKCM Cream == Cream dampen ?
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:25:41
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:31:42
are they better than orange?It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 02 November 2016, 13:34:12
Post by: chyros on Wed, 02 November 2016, 14:24:45
Are there even enough people with both in representative condition for a general consensus to form, though? :pare they better than orange?It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 14:32:56
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 02 November 2016, 15:37:52
This is a valid point that I hadn't considered... the consensus among those with both in representative condition is "yes."Are there even enough people with both in representative condition for a general consensus to form, though? :pare they better than orange?It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."
Is that more accurate now? :p
As someone that has both in representative condition, my answer is yes. That being said, I'm typing on an Orange Alps board right now, haha.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 15:46:13
wonder who that is??? <3Are there even enough people with both in representative condition for a general consensus to form, though? :pare they better than orange?It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."
regardless I will be trying them soon I think. Someone is lending me a 60%with them :-* :-*
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 18:33:39
I have 95 Ambers, so I would use 5 greens in the nav cluster, with End being the sole Amber.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 02 November 2016, 19:39:22
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 02 November 2016, 20:16:17
are they better than orange?It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."
I like orange alps better than the undampened creams (ivory). BTW I just got an email that Cindy's store has newly stocked AEKs with oranges.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 21:11:46
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 21:13:45
beer >> cream alps.****er's drunk again
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 21:15:05
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 21:32:24
Post by: E3E on Wed, 02 November 2016, 23:16:28
Sooooo is SKCL Striped Amber in a SGI a good idea? Popped one in and felt nice.
Hmmm, it's a solid case, but nothing nifty. Why not hold out for a Wang or something else a bit more exotic? You could always swap the blues out of your Packard. Nah, that wouldn't be right.
I feel like they deserve something a little different, but I'm not sure what to suggest.
Post by: Hak Foo on Wed, 02 November 2016, 23:31:22
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 02 November 2016, 23:39:44
Sooooo is SKCL Striped Amber in a SGI a good idea? Popped one in and felt nice.
Hmmm, it's a solid case, but nothing nifty. Why not hold out for a Wang or something else a bit more exotic? You could always swap the blues out of your Packard. Nah, that wouldn't be right.
I feel like they deserve something a little different, but I'm not sure what to suggest.
Better than a V80 in terms of exotic lol. Obviously would never touch the Packard but besides being awesome and rare it's not to too different from the SGI in terms of layout etc.
Interesting look, great caps and a perfect layout. Seems to be a good fit to me. Plus it costs nothing and I get a surplus of SKCM Orange.
I'm fond of the SGI because it's straight ANSI and I like the keycaps and case treatment. It's not the most durable board in the world-- probably should get a Northgate for that-- but I would not consider it incompetent at all.
What I was thinking. A straight ANSI Northgate would be awesome but they seem less common than the BAE ones and can get pricy.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:03:38
are they better than orange?It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."
I like orange alps better than the undampened creams (ivory). BTW I just got an email that Cindy's store has newly stocked AEKs with oranges.
They've been in stock a while, 8 complete ones 2 with 2 missing caps each last i checked.
I've been eyeing them up, Harvest the oranges and the caps and make something custom. Maybe...
Post by: kawasaki161 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 06:14:42
Same, would also be my first real ALPS board, but shipping is ~$60 which is just ridiculous.are they better than orange?It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."
I like orange alps better than the undampened creams (ivory). BTW I just got an email that Cindy's store has newly stocked AEKs with oranges.
They've been in stock a while, 8 complete ones 2 with 2 missing caps each last i checked.
I've been eyeing them up, Harvest the oranges and the caps and make something custom. Maybe...
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 08:24:21
Again, I like the form factor and layout of the board (although I am using a Hasu converter programmed for a HHKB-like layout). However, the board has some negatives. For one thing, it pings. The case shows fingerprints and smudges, and the stock caps do not seem to hide shine well. I am not fond of the non-detachable coiled cable -- I would consider putting the converter inside the case and installing a panel-mount micro-USB connector for a detachable micro-USB cable.
I sort of like the cream switches, but although they are rated at the same actuation force as blue Alps in the DT wiki, they feel heavier to me. I almost don't notice the tactile bump, but maybe it registers subconsciously because I seem to type better on cream Alps then I do on linear Alps such as greens or yellows. Nevertheless, I think I need both tactile and auditory feedback. I still prefer clicky Alps (blue or white; I haven't tried Amber).
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 November 2016, 08:32:45
I am typing this on my non-ADB NeXT with non-damped cream Alps and dye-sub PBT alphas from an SGI Granite.Is your creams board in good condition? With Alps even a small amount of dirt or dust tends to impact keyfeel dramatically. Also the tactile weight of the switch doesn't necessarily coincide with the amount of work needed to press a switch.
Again, I like the form factor and layout of the board (although I am using a Hasu converter programmed for a HHKB-like layout). However, the board has some negatives. For one thing, it pings. The case shows fingerprints and smudges, and the stock caps do not seem to hide shine well. I am not fond of the non-detachable coiled cable -- I would consider putting the converter inside the case and installing a panel-mount micro-USB connector for a detachable micro-USB cable.
I sort of like the cream switches, but although they are rated at the same actuation force as blue Alps in the DT wiki, they feel heavier to me. I almost don't notice the tactile bump, but maybe it registers subconsciously because I seem to type better on cream Alps then I do on linear Alps such as greens or yellows. Nevertheless, I think I need both tactile and auditory feedback. I still prefer clicky Alps (blue or white; I haven't tried Amber).
Amber Alps are similar to blue Alps, except a bit stiffer and much more tactile.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 08:49:07
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 03 November 2016, 09:10:45
I am typing this on my non-ADB NeXT with non-damped cream Alps and dye-sub PBT alphas from an SGI Granite.MoreAgain, I like the form factor and layout of the board (although I am using a Hasu converter programmed for a HHKB-like layout). However, the board has some negatives. For one thing, it pings. The case shows fingerprints and smudges, and the stock caps do not seem to hide shine well. I am not fond of the non-detachable coiled cable -- I would consider putting the converter inside the case and installing a panel-mount micro-USB connector for a detachable micro-USB cable.
I sort of like the cream switches, but although they are rated at the same actuation force as blue Alps in the DT wiki, they feel heavier to me. I almost don't notice the tactile bump, but maybe it registers subconsciously because I seem to type better on cream Alps then I do on linear Alps such as greens or yellows. Nevertheless, I think I need both tactile and auditory feedback. I still prefer clicky Alps (blue or white; I haven't tried Amber).
This statement is totally obscure to people outside the keyboard geek community.
Is there any Media (photo & video) thread in GH specifically about the ALPS keyboards?
Edit: Okay, found a few below
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76021.msg1893115#msg1893115
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55731.msg1254023#msg1254023
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35324.msg655534#msg655534
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 03 November 2016, 09:47:45
This statement is totally obscure to people outside the keyboard geek community.
Not actually about Alps switches at all, but -
Quote from: Anonymous Coward
I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."
Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.
Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.
And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 03 November 2016, 11:18:28
I don't say this often... but that is truly "special." Well, I guess I know what my weekend plans are :PThis statement is totally obscure to people outside the keyboard geek community.Not actually about Alps switches at all, but -MoreQuote from: Anonymous CowardI feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."
Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.
Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.
And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 03 November 2016, 11:26:34
I don't say this often ... but that is truly "special."
It is probably at least half a decade old, possibly pre-dating "r00tw0rm", but still a gem.
The original post may be lost in the mists of history, but there was speculation that "anonymous coward" was actually Ripster.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 11:30:26
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 November 2016, 11:31:03
My NeXT board is in good condition. However, the switches exhibit a slight degree of binding, which is elicited by pressing down on the upper-right corner of the keys, especially keys larger than 1.00x. Likewise, my Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps has a bit of binding, but my Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps has no binding at all. Normally, I do not press keys in the upper-right corner; I just use this as a qualitative test of the condition of Alps switches.In my experience with dozens of Alps keyboards, I've found Alps keyboards are almost without exception NOT in representative condition if they show ANY of the following symptoms:
-One or more of the keys bind
-One or more of the keycaps have shine to them
-The mounting plate shows corrosion spots
-The keyboard has dust or dirt between the switches
In any of these cases, I would say your Alps board does not give a good indication of what Alps switches feel like; hence why I keep pushing people to only buy pristine Alps boards. I'm sure the majority of Alps keyboard users only own unrepresentative keyboards for this reason xD.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 11:34:59
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 11:37:47
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 12:00:58
There is also a generational factor in play, whereby older Alps in good shape can sound and feel better than newer Alps in excellent shape.
And not to forget the chassis effect -- I just received a SunTouch 101 with white Alps that appear to be pristine, but I prefer typing on an Omnikey 101 with white Alps. It might be that the white Alps in the Omnikey 101 are of an earlier generation than those in the Suntouch 101.
I'm typing this on a Leading Edge DC-2014 with blue Alps. I like the sound and feel of this board very much, but the Return key feels a bit awkward, and the layout is not ideal. If this board were ANSI-fied, it would be great (for me).
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 November 2016, 12:19:42
@Chyros: Could it be that you have already bought up all the "representative" Alps keyboards? The rest of us have to muddle through with less-than-pristine Alps boards. ;)The boards I tend to get from the recycling centre, bizarrely, are almost always either super horrible or super clean. There are tons of Alps boards sitting in a box on a shelf or something in all kinds of places, I'm sure there's plenty more fish in the sea ;) .
There seem to be exceptions to the pristine rule. I have now bought 5 Northgate Omnikey 101 white Alps boards to refurbish. Based on outward appearance, including the amount of corrosion on the plate, the one that was in the worst shape turned out to be the best with respect to the feel of the switches. It seems reasonable that the thing that matters is the condition of the switches themselves, in which case I would agree with Chyros.It sounds like all five of your OmniKeys are in non-representative condition if I'm brutally honest :p .
Post by: zslane on Thu, 03 November 2016, 12:28:18
I don't say this often ... but that is truly "special."
It is probably at least half a decade old, possibly pre-dating "r00tw0rm", but still a gem.
The original post may be lost in the mists of history, but there was speculation that "anonymous coward" was actually Ripster.
that post is so trollish it's funny
Totally! Doesn't make the observations entirely untrue though... :p
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 12:40:36
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 November 2016, 13:30:51
@Chyros: 5/5 "non-representative" seems like quite a run of bad luck, but on the other hand, 5 out of the total universe of Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards is admittedly a small sample. Even so, I am much happier typing on my crippled Alps boards than any Cherry mx board I have ever tried. Moreover, when I take an Alps board through my complete refurbishing process, it ends up performing quite well, with no chattering and little or no binding even when a large key is pressed on the extreme upper right corner.Out of over two dozen AT101s (I lost count ages ago) I've had, no more than four, maybe five at a stretch were representative - and three of those were NIB :P .
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 13:38:12
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 13:49:06
We might call the boards that represent the very best examples something like "Grade A" boards, which, in your case, might be the upper ~20% or so.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 03 November 2016, 14:29:19
Just saying, NOS blues are amazing :p ... if you can get the board to work :'(
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 14:37:27
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 14:41:24
@chyros would you say the SKCM Creams I sent you were in acceptable condition? I would certainly say so. I used the same batch to build 2 boards, and they both feel great.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 November 2016, 14:44:12
Nope, none of that is an exaggeration. If you've tried the genuine article, used ones simply don't even come close, the difference is staggering.@Chyros: 5/5 "non-representative" seems like quite a run of bad luck, but on the other hand, 5 out of the total universe of Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards is admittedly a small sample. Even so, I am much happier typing on my crippled Alps boards than any Cherry mx board I have ever tried. Moreover, when I take an Alps board through my complete refurbishing process, it ends up performing quite well, with no chattering and little or no binding even when a large key is pressed on the extreme upper right corner.Out of over two dozen AT101s (I lost count ages ago) I've had, no more than four, maybe five at a stretch were representative - and three of those were NIB :P .
hyperbole
@Chyros: Perhaps "representative" is a misnomer. Statistically, it would seem that if only 4 to 5 out of > 24 keyboards were at a high standard, then this is not representative of the population of available boards. The boards that tend to represent the population would be the 19 to 20 out of > 24.By "representative" I mean "representative of what it would be like when it was new". Which, considering most of these boards are 20-30 years old, isn't easily achieved. The problem with NOT taking only the best (approx. NOS condition, switch-wise) keyboards as the standard is that it implies that those keyboards then somehow become "better than normal" which is just weird. It also belies the fact that there's quite a lot wrong with most Alps boards - it's kind of unfair to pretend Alps products were like that out of the factory, not to mention it encourages people to buy crappy-condition Alps boards, which simply doesn't give you the best experience :) .
We might call the boards that represent the very best examples something like "Grade A" boards, which, in your case, might be the upper ~20% or so.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 03 November 2016, 14:52:26
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 15:12:02
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 16:14:41
Post by: E3E on Thu, 03 November 2016, 16:24:41
My Focus FK-555 is in pristine condition and feel amazing, this is true. I have a boxed NTC 6153EA that feels nice, but then so does my Acer KB101A that was used in an office for years that had a gunky plate, but clean switches. The DC-3014 does as well.
So I'm not sure, I mean... I feel like keyboards can still be representative of the switches' proper feel even if they aren't untouched. I will admit though, that I've never seen a dusty keyboard that's felt great. The KB101A just had gunk on the plate from years of use without any cleaning, most likely.
Even my 6085 which is NIB and entirely unused, while it has really nice switches, the browns I've used in my hot swap boards have felt just as smooth without any binding. So I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just not judging things with as much scrutiny, but I HAVE felt scratchy and bindy switches before with Alps, so I know how an unpleasant switch feels.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 03 November 2016, 18:16:21
@Chyros: I have yet to try a NIB or NOS Alps board, but I've reconditioned some that give me an excellent typing experience compared to all the keyboards with which I am familiar (e.g. other boards with the following switch categories: other Alps, Matias, Cherry mx and clones, RAL, NMB Space Invaders, IBM Model M, IBM Model F, and Topre). Among these, it seems that Alps are quite sensitive to the ravages of time, and so I am very glad that in addition to Alps, I like other types of vintage switches (especially IBM Model F) and some contemporary switches (especially Topre). Maybe someday I will get my hands on a NIB/NOS Alps board, at which time I can recalibrate!Yes, Alps' sensitivity is by far their biggest shortfall, unfortunately... You can usually get Alps switches in better condition with some cleaning and maintenance, but I've yet to get one back up to anything near NOS status. If I ever go to a meetup I'll bring some nice Alps boards along so people can try them out ^^ .
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 03 November 2016, 18:27:24
Moreover, a stock product from the factory is not necessarily the best it can be. Case in point is remanufactured car engines -- something with which I have direct experience while growing up. I know that it is possible to re-tool an engine to make it perform far better than it did fresh from the factory. The same general principle can apply to keyboards.
I'm typing this on a Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI board that I refurbished by cleaning the top switch housings, sliders, return springs, and click leaves in an ultrasonic cleaner, cleaning the bottom housings and switch plates in situ with contact cleaner, and carefully reassembling the switches along with lubricating the slider rails and click-leaf surface of the slider with Superlube 51010 oil. The result is one of the best keyboards I have ever used-- silky smooth with crisp tactile feedback and subtle clicks. Although I don't have an NIB version of this keyboard, I can still rate the quality of the typing experience, and it is superb.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 18:37:26
One thing though. A couple of the keys like forward slash, star and minus and insert especially seem to be better than the rest. They are much more bassy and deep. Although I don't believe this is caused by condition since other keys that are barely used like pause or F9 feel just like commonly used keys like A.
Alps wasn't perfect at producing the damn things either. Some switches might be better than others not by condition but by manufacturing.
Here's a video
I think Ultrasonic cleaning is the future as well.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 18:57:32
Post by: E3E on Thu, 03 November 2016, 19:01:27
My Packard Bell wasn't NIB or anything but with no corrosion on a still factory shiny plate and no yellowing it is still a joy to type on.
One thing though. A couple of the keys like forward slash, star and minus and insert especially seem to be better than the rest. They are much more bassy and deep. Although I don't believe this is caused by condition since other keys that are barely used like pause or F9 feel just like commonly used keys like A.
Alps wasn't perfect at producing the damn things either. Some switches might be better than others not by condition but by manufacturing.
Here's a video
I think Ultrasonic cleaning is the future as well.
One of the two first tested keys has a click on the upstroke, as tactile and clicky Alps are prone to have. Mike even mentioned his NIB Wang 725 with SKCM Salmon having clicks on the upstrokes, so this is certainly something that can be like that from the factory itself.
Also, Matt, I'm always down for cleaning your switches. Just let me know when you're ready. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 03 November 2016, 19:10:18
Cool. I'll PM you sometime soon. Curious to see the results, how far can a Alps switch go before it's too far gone?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 03 November 2016, 20:09:17
the differences in those Blues is due to manufacturing
There were considerable differences all along the way, apparently.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 03 November 2016, 22:25:54
Got a steal on a Z150 with green alps and if I hadn't already tried some in pristine condition like the board Alienman sold me, there is no way I would hold them in the same regard. The broken Apple IIC looked awful, but the switches are in great shape. Also, maybe others can vouch for this, but as a result of the 5140 screen effectively shielding the keyboard from light and dust the browns seem to always be in very good condition.
Just saying, NOS blues are amazing :p ... if you can get the board to work :'(
man I had a zenith something or other that was so ****ty. that one you got was great. shame about the pcb :|
I actually don't think anything is wrong with the PCB, I think I just need to write the TMK firmware myself instead of using the GUI. I played around with it and got the ALT key working, but it wasn't what I assigned it to be. Similar issues to what is discussed in this thread on DT (https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/strange-behaviour-on-alps64-t13273.html).
Also anyone have some white alps with pine tops, clean with little or no binding? I am looking to click mod the Zenith on Mike's suggestion.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 04 November 2016, 16:13:26
After removing the keycaps and case, I cleaned the plate and the outside of the switch tops using dry cotton swabs, taking care not to leave any cotton lint behind. After soaking the case in detergent overnight, rinsing with water, rinsing with 70% isopropyl alcohol, and drying overnight, I painted the top shell burgundy red with several light coats of Duplicolor vinyl & fabric coating. I put the painted case aside for 8 days before reassembling the keyboard. I did not paint the bottom metal pan, but I used mineral spirits followed by 70% isopropyl alcohol to remove the glue from the inside that held the ferrite core in place.
Next, I installed an internal Orihalcon/Soarer USB Converter and panel-mount micro-USB connector. I replaced the solid ferrite core with a hinged ferrite core that has a 5 mm opering. I placed a piece of 1/16" thick "art foam" cut to size between the PCB and bottom pan. I then installed new keycaps. For the top row, number row except Backquote and Backspace, Nav Island, and all but the number keys on the Numpad, I used WoB Tai-Hao ABS doubleshots. Alphas and NumPad numbers = dye-sub PBT from an SGI Granite. All others = blank black ABS from Matias. Per my standard procedure, I've programmed the board with a HHKB-like layout.
For the spacebar, I used a stabilizer, clips, and inserts from Matias. I removed the stock shock pads because they are in the wrong position for the Matias spacebar and they interfere with the Matias stabilzer wire. I put new shock pads on the plate where the stabilizer inserts hit the plate, using self-adhesive 0.15 mm polyurethane foam. To deaden the spacebar, I put small rectangles of 0.5 mm self-adhesive foam rubber inside the space bar. To quieten the spacebar switch, I installed a new slider from a Matias Quiet switch, but I kept the white Alps click leaf. All this results in a very quiet spacebar with no rattle.
[attach=1]
I kept everything else intact. This time, I did not open and clean the switches (except for doing a slider swap on the Spacebar switch).
The keyboard is smooth with crisp tactility and just the right amount of clickiness for me. The switches feel consistent across the board. I have not noticed suppressed clicks, return-stroke clicks, chattering, or binding. The board provides a splendid typing experience that compares favorably with my all-time favorite keyboards (these include my IBM XT, silenced and lubed RF87UB55, silenced and lubed HHKB Pro 2, Leading Edge DC-3014 blue Alps, and cleaned and lubed Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI white Alps).
As with my previous Omni 101, I found that I could not use the dye-sub PBT caps from an IBM 5140 (brown Alps). These caps have worked well on several other Alps and Matias-switch keyboards, but they do not bottom-out consistently on the Omni 101 keyboards. This is why I ended up using caps from an SGI Granite, even though I am not fond of the Italic font. Does anyone have any idea why the IBM caps do not work well on the Omnikey 101 boards?
=====
@MandrewDavis: Let us know how you get on with click-modding your Zenith. I have a Z-150 with Green Alps and a 163-73 with Yellow Alps that I am considering click-modding. It's nice that the procedure is reversible. Does this mod require pine switch tops, or is that just your preference? That is, would it work with the bamboo version of white Alps tops?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 04 November 2016, 17:10:58
(http://i.imgur.com/PeiQABo.jpg)
My favorite new Alps board. :P
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 17:14:14
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 04 November 2016, 17:26:44
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 November 2016, 17:39:49
Crosspost for fun!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PeiQABo.jpg)
My favorite new Alps board. :P
Holy monkey.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 18:52:41
Why not hold out for a Wang or something else a bit more exotic? I feel like they deserve something a little different, but I'm not sure what to suggest.
So I got the perfect exotic you were looking for E3E. A Zenith 163-73 I bought from Wingpad!
It's the perfect candidate since it only comes with SKCL Yellow. Has that buzzer which would still make logical sense since I'm swapping using SKCL, plus in cap leds! I do hate how the led's are green not red but luckily I have 3 original led SKCL Green's from my old Z-150 so it's perfect for it. Zenith build quality as well. The main difference though between the ZKB-2 and this is that it has a plastic backplate and alps dyesubs. A fair trade off I suppose.
Plus it has the SKCL GRAY I need. It's a win-win-win!
Post by: E3E on Fri, 04 November 2016, 19:12:00
Why not hold out for a Wang or something else a bit more exotic? I feel like they deserve something a little different, but I'm not sure what to suggest.
So I got the perfect exotic you were looking for E3E. A Zenith 163-73 I bought from Wingpad!
It's the perfect candidate since it only comes with SKCL Yellow. Has that buzzer which would still make logical sense since I'm swapping using SKCL, plus in cap leds! I do hate how the led's are green not red but luckily I have 3 original led SKCL Green's from my old Z-150 so it's perfect for it. Zenith build quality as well. The main difference though between the ZKB-2 and this is that it has a plastic backplate and alps dyesubs. A fair trade off I suppose.
Plus it has the SKCL GRAY I need. It's a win-win-win!
Sweet man, do it! Slap in the Striped Ambers, use SKCL Grey as the space bar switch (or Amber, either way haha), and it'll be fantastic. It'd fit those switches well.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 20:02:48
Sweet man, do it! Slap in the Striped Ambers, use SKCL Grey as the space bar switch (or Amber, either way haha), and it'll be fantastic. It'd fit those switches well.
Yea. I'm excited to have a board with a beeper and in cap lock lights again, makes it so interesting. Wasn't able to take advantage of those in my Z-150 since the board wouldn't work on Linux without a USB converter and that didn't allow the leds to work :( It needs good cleaning and a retrobright badly. Unfortunately I ran out and it's fall/winter right now so idk when I will have a chance to do it.
Was actually planning to just use a normal SKCL Striped Amber for the spacebar. The Grey is for the switch tester.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 04 November 2016, 20:10:11
Yeah, I was thinking about buying a bunch of 40W Black Lights off of eBay from China and setting them up in my closet in an array to retr0brite this and the Wang I have but I figured it would just be easier to sell them. I've done a ton of cleaning work on this board already, believe it or not. There was just way more left than I wanted to do so it was time to sell it. I really think the beeper in this board is cute, though. It pleases me greatly. Also, I can't wait to see pictures of it with SKCL Ambers in it :)Sweet man, do it! Slap in the Striped Ambers, use SKCL Grey as the space bar switch (or Amber, either way haha), and it'll be fantastic. It'd fit those switches well.Yea. I'm excited to have a board with a beeper and in cap lock lights again, makes it so interesting. Wasn't able to take advantage of those in my Z-150 since the board wouldn't work on Linux without a USB converter and that didn't allow the leds to work :( It needs good cleaning and a retrobright badly. Unfortunately I ran out and it's fall/winter right now so idk when I will have a chance to do it.
Was actually planning to just use a normal SKCL Striped Amber for the spacebar. The Grey is for the switch tester.
I have too many boards right now anyway and I still need to find a candidate for all of the SKCM Brown switches I have sitting around. If I manage to kick a keyset GB off the ground I'll have a bit more flexibility but it's going to be tough either way.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 20:25:08
Yeah, I was thinking about buying a bunch of 40W Black Lights off of eBay from China and setting them up in my closet in an array to retr0brite this and the Wang I have but I figured it would just be easier to sell them. I've done a ton of cleaning work on this board already, believe it or not. There was just way more left than I wanted to do so it was time to sell it. I really think the beeper in this board is cute, though. It pleases me greatly. Also, I can't wait to see pictures of it with SKCL Ambers in it :)Sweet man, do it! Slap in the Striped Ambers, use SKCL Grey as the space bar switch (or Amber, either way haha), and it'll be fantastic. It'd fit those switches well.Yea. I'm excited to have a board with a beeper and in cap lock lights again, makes it so interesting. Wasn't able to take advantage of those in my Z-150 since the board wouldn't work on Linux without a USB converter and that didn't allow the leds to work :( It needs good cleaning and a retrobright badly. Unfortunately I ran out and it's fall/winter right now so idk when I will have a chance to do it.
Was actually planning to just use a normal SKCL Striped Amber for the spacebar. The Grey is for the switch tester.
I have too many boards right now anyway and I still need to find a candidate for all of the SKCM Brown switches I have sitting around. If I manage to kick a keyset GB off the ground I'll have a bit more flexibility but it's going to be tough either way.
What did it look like when you found it?
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 04 November 2016, 20:29:52
What did it look like when you found it?It was more internal than external. The plate was pretty dirty and some of the switches weren't in great shape. I opened up about 20 of the worst of them to clean them by hand but since you're replacing them that doesn't really matter to you that much :))
There was also some sort of icky grime on the case, not sure where this board was used but yeah... it was rather odd. I suspect it acquired it's patina while in storage after it's tenure. Whenever I see the board it makes me think of Samurai Champloo because that's what I was watching while I was cleaning it but I digress, it's better now :thumb:
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 20:46:26
Trust me, that board will look like the day it was made when i'm done with it. :) My only worry is that the logo won't retrobright. It seems to be different from normal LED label's that don't so theres hope.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 04 November 2016, 21:45:43
P.S. Wingpad, I am all in on that keyset of yours :D
@Mattr If those SKCL yellows ever need a home in a nice new keyboard, feel free to PM me!
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 22:24:36
How nice are those Zenith dye-subs? I kinda like the novelty of the smallass enter.
P.S. Wingpad, I am all in on that keyset of yours :D
@Mattr If those SKCL yellows ever need a home in a nice new keyboard, feel free to PM me!
They're Alps dyesubs just like the 5140 or SGI/Early Dell AT101's. Yea I don't mind the layout of the Zenith at all.
Looks like i'll be PMing you once I desolder the board ;)
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 22:30:02
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 04 November 2016, 22:31:05
you are very happy then :) always happy to see thatI think we're both very happy :)) This is going to pay for the powder-coating job for my F107.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 04 November 2016, 22:33:37
you are very happy then :) always happy to see thatI think we're both very happy :)) This is going to pay for the powder-coating job for my F107.
Looks like everybody is going to be happy! Are you going to paint it the original color or something different?
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 04 November 2016, 22:39:05
Looks like everybody is going to be happy! Are you going to paint it the original color or something different?You're helping too, haha. I went with a shade of gray close to Industrial Gray. It's done but there have been some issues with billing and getting it shipped but it should be here soon. Anyway, I think I might get kicked for mentioning buckling springs here. Quick! I need to hide my Model M and grab my Omnikey! Blue Alps FTW, tooooootally.
Stuffs his Model M in a nearby box
EDIT: Also, more relevantly, I might have found my favorite switch Alps "Ghetto Blue" Switch. SKCM Browns with a SKCM Blue Click Plate are delightfully tactile, airy and light. I quite like them and would consider building a board with them if it didn't mean killing two varieties of rarish Alps switches. Here's crappy video (http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/581d56c37f340/VID_20161104_224658.mp4), it doesn't really do them justice.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 04 November 2016, 23:28:02
How nice are those Zenith dye-subs? I kinda like the novelty of the smallass enter.
P.S. Wingpad, I am all in on that keyset of yours :D
@Mattr If those SKCL yellows ever need a home in a nice new keyboard, feel free to PM me!
They're Alps dyesubs just like the 5140 or SGI/Early Dell AT101's. Yea I don't mind the layout of the Zenith at all.
Looks like i'll be PMing you once I desolder the board ;)
you are very happy then :) always happy to see that
Yea, the PBT caps are great. Have experience from my SKCM Orange SGI. I do prefer ABS on clicky switches since they feel a bit more lively with them. PBT otherwise. The Multistation caps are the exception of course :p
Actually have been using the Multistation plate as a base for cleaning loose switches since it gives a solid platform for them to sit while I align all the parts to go back together. It is always preferred to clean them while their still soldered in though since the switchplate doesn't move. But trying to put Alps back together without anything is a nightmare.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 05 November 2016, 00:15:29
Ever since getting my Orion and using the AT101 caps on it and then the Chinese uniform PBT key caps, I feel like ABS/PBT for clickies doesn't really matter much. These feel quite lively, haha. Now, for tactiles, PBT all the way. Linears can go either way.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 00:27:45
Maybe it's just that thicker caps dampen the click more in general (like NeXT or SGI) rather than the material. Don't want too thin though. Example the stock Packard caps feel better than the thinner Focus Tai Hao doubleshots.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 02:13:34
Also updated a bunch various other parts here and there.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 05 November 2016, 05:16:03
Tactile -> thick dyesub PBT
Linear -> thick dyesub PBT or thick doubleshot ABS (pref. Spherical)
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 12:38:11
Post by: ctm on Sat, 05 November 2016, 14:39:53
Post by: romevi on Sat, 05 November 2016, 14:41:52
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rjRUiHY.jpg)
Thank you for letting me try this mike52787!
Did mike not want to use the original layout for the bottom row?
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 14:44:02
what do you mean by that?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rjRUiHY.jpg)
Thank you for letting me try this mike52787!
Did mike not want to use the original layout for the bottom row?
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 14:47:40
Post by: romevi on Sat, 05 November 2016, 14:53:19
what do you mean by that?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rjRUiHY.jpg)
Thank you for letting me try this mike52787!
Did mike not want to use the original layout for the bottom row?
pretty sure he means the AEK bottom row. I asked Mike and he just took an alps KBP and swapped the PCB and switches, but not the plate.
Oh, I see. I've been contemplating which bottom row to use in my first Alps board; have decided on something similar to that.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 14:54:10
My bottom row is as follows: alt,win,fn,space,ctrl,win,alt,fnwhat do you mean by that?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rjRUiHY.jpg)
Thank you for letting me try this mike52787!
Did mike not want to use the original layout for the bottom row?
pretty sure he means the AEK bottom row. I asked Mike and he just took an alps KBP and swapped the PCB and switches, but not the plate.
Oh, I see. I've been contemplating which bottom row to use in my first Alps board; have decided on something similar to that.
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 05 November 2016, 15:32:49
My bottom row is as follows: alt,win,fn,space,ctrl,win,alt,fnwhat do you mean by that?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rjRUiHY.jpg)
Thank you for letting me try this mike52787!
Did mike not want to use the original layout for the bottom row?
pretty sure he means the AEK bottom row. I asked Mike and he just took an alps KBP and swapped the PCB and switches, but not the plate.
Oh, I see. I've been contemplating which bottom row to use in my first Alps board; have decided on something similar to that.
wtf that is mind blowing.
On the second note, has anyone ever dissected the cream switches from both AEKII and NEXT to compare the discrepancies between them? I finally got a decent camera after breaking my old one. If no-one has tried to do so I might give it a chance.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 15:33:50
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 05 November 2016, 15:39:56
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 05 November 2016, 15:43:21
I was thinking more about the discrepancies between the switch plates and the sliders. I wonder if taking off the rubber dampeners, would dampened cream be as good as cream.Nope, wouldnt be anything close to the same. The tactile leaves, switch plates and springs are all different. Dampened cream's tactility is much more "bumpy" compared to SKCM cream's crisp tactility. Damoened cream has short white switchplates, and SKCM cream has tall grey switchplates. The slider material is also different, as skcm cream falls into the early timeline that has dry lubricant on the sliders. Dampened cream sladers are made of a slipperier plastic.
Post by: ED2914 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:06:11
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg.html)
I know the difference between blue and white alps are quite small sometimes, such as blue alps with ALPS logo top-housing or white switchplate instead of grey switchplate,
but these are not white switchplate only, these are white switchplate with white alps leaves!
A Japanese found it also.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:21:07
I have bought a Packard Bell T8023 at Taobao recently. This is a lovely keyboard and I cleaned it today, but wait...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg.html)
I know the difference between blue and white alps are quite small sometimes, such as blue alps with ALPS logo top-housing or white switchplate instead of grey switchplate,
but these are not white switchplate only, these are white switchplate with white alps leaves!
A Japanese found it also.
Wow, short switch plates too? It seems like blue Alps and white Alps had a very small period of crossover where the earliest white Alps was very close to blue Alps and the latest blues, as shown in your example, are similar to whites. Very peculiar.
You grabbed that one up quick. I noticed that one on TaoBao.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:26:39
Hah, that's funny, I recorded a very relevant video to this phenomenon very recently xD .I have bought a Packard Bell T8023 at Taobao recently. This is a lovely keyboard and I cleaned it today, but wait...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg.html)
I know the difference between blue and white alps are quite small sometimes, such as blue alps with ALPS logo top-housing or white switchplate instead of grey switchplate,
but these are not white switchplate only, these are white switchplate with white alps leaves!
A Japanese found it also.
Wow, short switch plates too? It seems like blue Alps and white Alps had a very small period of crossover where the earliest white Alps was very close to blue Alps and the latest blues, as shown in your example, are similar to whites. Very peculiar.
You grabbed that one up quick. I noticed that one on TaoBao.
I'm not sure those are short switchplates though. They look long to me.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:28:53
I think that theyre short switchplates, Ive had white switchplate blue alps and the color of the plastic on the switchplate is different than the normal short switchplate plastic. Those dont really look like tall white switchplates.Hah, that's funny, I recorded a very relevant video to this phenomenon very recently xD .I have bought a Packard Bell T8023 at Taobao recently. This is a lovely keyboard and I cleaned it today, but wait...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_190725_zps8hclkr0x.jpg.html)
I know the difference between blue and white alps are quite small sometimes, such as blue alps with ALPS logo top-housing or white switchplate instead of grey switchplate,
but these are not white switchplate only, these are white switchplate with white alps leaves!
A Japanese found it also.
Wow, short switch plates too? It seems like blue Alps and white Alps had a very small period of crossover where the earliest white Alps was very close to blue Alps and the latest blues, as shown in your example, are similar to whites. Very peculiar.
You grabbed that one up quick. I noticed that one on TaoBao.
I'm not sure those are short switchplates though. They look long to me.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:32:31
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:43:09
Post by: ED2914 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:55:55
They're definitely short switch plates as you can see them raised up over the bottom housing's "floor" there's no way that'd happen with a long switch plate unless the switch was desoldered and the plates got pulled up during switch top removal. The long switch plates are flush with the bottom.Yes they are short switchplate.
Meanwhile, the coding on the top-housing is different too. Only one letter at right hand corner without number.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg.html)
The funniest thing is that the key feel and sound is same as normal blue alps rather than white alps.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 06 November 2016, 07:59:13
It is really difficult for me to understand the point of trying out keyboards and switches for those who can't touch type, like the one in the video above.
I hear you there, though for me, owning nice old and custom keyboards is a high incentive for me to improve my technique. I have some lazy habits with typing; I'm not 100% perfect with my form, but I do like practicing with proper form.
They're definitely short switch plates as you can see them raised up over the bottom housing's "floor" there's no way that'd happen with a long switch plate unless the switch was desoldered and the plates got pulled up during switch top removal. The long switch plates are flush with the bottom.Yes they are short switchplate.
Meanwhile, the coding on the top-housing is different too. Only one letter at right hand corner without number.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg.html)
The funniest thing is that the key feel and sound is same as normal blue alps rather than white alps.
I think the click leaves are probably the biggest factor to feel. I noticed this when swapping blue leaves into other switches. That's certainly the most special component of a blue Alps switch. Lubed sliders and such can be found in other switches, but that click leaf is unique.
Post by: ED2914 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 08:49:19
It is really difficult for me to understand the point of trying out keyboards and switches for those who can't touch type, like the one in the video above.
I hear you there, though for me, owning nice old and custom keyboards is a high incentive for me to improve my technique. I have some lazy habits with typing; I'm not 100% perfect with my form, but I do like practicing with proper form.They're definitely short switch plates as you can see them raised up over the bottom housing's "floor" there's no way that'd happen with a long switch plate unless the switch was desoldered and the plates got pulled up during switch top removal. The long switch plates are flush with the bottom.Yes they are short switchplate.
Meanwhile, the coding on the top-housing is different too. Only one letter at right hand corner without number.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg.html)
The funniest thing is that the key feel and sound is same as normal blue alps rather than white alps.
I think the click leaves are probably the biggest factor to feel. I noticed this when swapping blue leaves into other switches. That's certainly the most special component of a blue Alps switch. Lubed sliders and such can be found in other switches, but that click leaf is unique.
But the click leaves are very close to white alps's. The only difference is the "bump" is slightly flatter than the blue's. I have tried to swap the leaves to a blue alps and the key feel is nearly the same.
As the component are nearly the same, the different feel of blue alps with white alps may only caused by the spring?
Post by: chyros on Sun, 06 November 2016, 09:17:05
Over time, every single component pretty much was changed between white and blue Alps. It was a step-by-step process though, and those must be among the youngest blue Alps I've seen (although I've even seen branded ones). Similarly there are very young white Alps that have more in common with blue Alps.It is really difficult for me to understand the point of trying out keyboards and switches for those who can't touch type, like the one in the video above.
I hear you there, though for me, owning nice old and custom keyboards is a high incentive for me to improve my technique. I have some lazy habits with typing; I'm not 100% perfect with my form, but I do like practicing with proper form.They're definitely short switch plates as you can see them raised up over the bottom housing's "floor" there's no way that'd happen with a long switch plate unless the switch was desoldered and the plates got pulled up during switch top removal. The long switch plates are flush with the bottom.Yes they are short switchplate.
Meanwhile, the coding on the top-housing is different too. Only one letter at right hand corner without number.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj99/2914/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg~original) (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/2914/media/20161106_214721_zpsyi2jv7rq.jpg.html)
The funniest thing is that the key feel and sound is same as normal blue alps rather than white alps.
I think the click leaves are probably the biggest factor to feel. I noticed this when swapping blue leaves into other switches. That's certainly the most special component of a blue Alps switch. Lubed sliders and such can be found in other switches, but that click leaf is unique.
But the click leaves are very close to white alps's. The only difference is the "bump" is slightly flatter than the blue's. I have tried to swap the leaves to a blue alps and the key feel is nearly the same.
As the component are nearly the same, the different feel of blue alps with white alps may only caused by the spring?
Next weekend there will be a video showing details on this ;) .
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 11:47:27
I have bought a Packard Bell T8023 at Taobao recently. This is a lovely keyboard and I cleaned it today, but wait...Nice find!
I know the difference between blue and white alps are quite small sometimes, such as blue alps with ALPS logo top-housing or white switchplate instead of grey switchplate,
but these are not white switchplate only, these are white switchplate with white alps leaves!
A Japanese found it also.
My T9102 (same board) also has short white plates and Alps logo's on the top housings. I thought they were long white until I just re-checked. I got mine on my local craigslist that was still bundled with it's original computer. My board also has the same manufactureing date as your's, 8942. Yea the keyfeel is unchanged. It seems this board has consistent late Blue Alps with white plates and top housing logo's.
(http://i.imgur.com/wi7S6Er.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FUj1bFN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8QaYIUp.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 06 November 2016, 12:02:25
(http://i.imgur.com/4wnijOp.jpg)
Got in this MouseTrak trackball specifically designed for the Xerox DocuTech systems a few days ago from HouseOfSuffering. It's on loan as part of the kit I'm sending out to Wingpad in hopes he can get a converter made for the board and all it's features, including the integrated mouse port.
This thing is really neat. MASSIVE though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 12:11:41
Post by: E3E on Sun, 06 November 2016, 12:31:45
Good luck! A USBified Xerox would be awesome! The layout isn't terrible either.
True! The typical Xerox's layout is 84 keys + 10 SKCL compact function keys on the top, so a 94 key would be pretty functional. There's also the weird one I have with the split left shift which makes it a 95 key. I would definitely use one in rotation. They're fun boards to type on even non-functionally, haha. :) They're built well! Impressive for a board that uses no screws other than to pin the PCB to the plate.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 20:38:05
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 20:57:41
I wonder if it's possible to transplant a older Zenith logo off a discarded Z-150 case or something onto a newer tree logo keyboard.I don't see why not, as long as the label is the same size.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 06 November 2016, 21:01:13
I wonder if it's possible to transplant a older Zenith logo off a discarded Z-150 case or something onto a newer tree logo keyboard.
I mean, I gave Proximity my black label from the Z-150 so he could put it on his modded AT version.
If you mean for the 163-73, then I'm not sure about that. Not sure if the dimensions are the same.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 21:03:03
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 21:06:30
I wonder if it's possible to transplant a older Zenith logo off a discarded Z-150 case or something onto a newer tree logo keyboard.
I mean, I gave Proximity my black label from the Z-150 so he could put it on his modded AT version.
If you mean for the 163-73, then I'm not sure about that. Not sure if the dimensions are the same.
Yea the 163-73. They're the same size as the ZKB-2 (since it's the same case) which is the same as the Z-150 I believe.
Since a lot of people desolder Z-150's I wonder if anyone has got a discarded case laying around.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 06 November 2016, 22:23:51
Post by: SomethingDignified on Sun, 06 November 2016, 23:51:31
@Chyros: I have yet to try a NIB or NOS Alps board, but I've reconditioned some that give me an excellent typing experience compared to all the keyboards with which I am familiar (e.g. other boards with the following switch categories: other Alps, Matias, Cherry mx and clones, RAL, NMB Space Invaders, IBM Model M, IBM Model F, and Topre). Among these, it seems that Alps are quite sensitive to the ravages of time, and so I am very glad that in addition to Alps, I like other types of vintage switches (especially IBM Model F) and some contemporary switches (especially Topre). Maybe someday I will get my hands on a NIB/NOS Alps board, at which time I can recalibrate!
I just obtained a white ALPS board I loved in the 90s, a PC Accessories/Chicony KB-7001, and I'm having some problems with binding/friction, I think. Do you know of a good guide to lubing/maintenance? I'm a bit new to being a keyboard "enthusiast". (Yeah, I am googling.)
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 07 November 2016, 06:48:34
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:13:55
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:15:28
Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Desoldering the v60 is a *****. Lead free solder, and a multi layer board. Your best bet is just buying an alps64 pcb, cutting a plate, and buying a cheap 60% case.
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:17:51
I don't mind desoldering though, I have desoldered plenty of boards with lead free solder and dual layer pcbs. It is annoying, yes, but with some effort, not too bad. I am more concerned with the quality of the board.Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Desoldering the v60 is a *****. Lead free solder, and a multi layer board. Your best bet is just buying an alps64 pcb, cutting a plate, and buying a cheap 60% case.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:20:45
In that case, the v60 is a well built nice board. The plastic case is pretty solid.I don't mind desoldering though, I have desoldered plenty of boards with lead free solder and dual layer pcbs. It is annoying, yes, but with some effort, not too bad. I am more concerned with the quality of the board.Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Desoldering the v60 is a *****. Lead free solder, and a multi layer board. Your best bet is just buying an alps64 pcb, cutting a plate, and buying a cheap 60% case.
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:30:50
It'll be thrown in some alu 60% case, not sure yet, but that is good to hear :)In that case, the v60 is a well built nice board. The plastic case is pretty solid.I don't mind desoldering though, I have desoldered plenty of boards with lead free solder and dual layer pcbs. It is annoying, yes, but with some effort, not too bad. I am more concerned with the quality of the board.Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Desoldering the v60 is a *****. Lead free solder, and a multi layer board. Your best bet is just buying an alps64 pcb, cutting a plate, and buying a cheap 60% case.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:39:50
The mounts on the original plate are different than normal 60% plates, so good luck. I dont believe it was meant to be put in another case. I would show pics of what I mean, but I leant it to alienman to try it out.It'll be thrown in some alu 60% case, not sure yet, but that is good to hear :)In that case, the v60 is a well built nice board. The plastic case is pretty solid.I don't mind desoldering though, I have desoldered plenty of boards with lead free solder and dual layer pcbs. It is annoying, yes, but with some effort, not too bad. I am more concerned with the quality of the board.Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Desoldering the v60 is a *****. Lead free solder, and a multi layer board. Your best bet is just buying an alps64 pcb, cutting a plate, and buying a cheap 60% case.
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:43:26
If I remember correctly, it works, you just cannot use all 5-6 screws, you have to leave out a few.The mounts on the original plate are different than normal 60% plates, so good luck. I dont believe it was meant to be put in another case. I would show pics of what I mean, but I leant it to alienman to try it out.It'll be thrown in some alu 60% case, not sure yet, but that is good to hear :)In that case, the v60 is a well built nice board. The plastic case is pretty solid.I don't mind desoldering though, I have desoldered plenty of boards with lead free solder and dual layer pcbs. It is annoying, yes, but with some effort, not too bad. I am more concerned with the quality of the board.Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Desoldering the v60 is a *****. Lead free solder, and a multi layer board. Your best bet is just buying an alps64 pcb, cutting a plate, and buying a cheap 60% case.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:45:32
Ill have to look. there are studs on the plate which are meant to be screwed into from the bottom of the case, unlike any other60% design. I have the original pcb at home, I can check if there are normal mounting holes in it or just the original ones.If I remember correctly, it works, you just cannot use all 5-6 screws, you have to leave out a few.The mounts on the original plate are different than normal 60% plates, so good luck. I dont believe it was meant to be put in another case. I would show pics of what I mean, but I leant it to alienman to try it out.It'll be thrown in some alu 60% case, not sure yet, but that is good to hear :)In that case, the v60 is a well built nice board. The plastic case is pretty solid.I don't mind desoldering though, I have desoldered plenty of boards with lead free solder and dual layer pcbs. It is annoying, yes, but with some effort, not too bad. I am more concerned with the quality of the board.Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Desoldering the v60 is a *****. Lead free solder, and a multi layer board. Your best bet is just buying an alps64 pcb, cutting a plate, and buying a cheap 60% case.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 07 November 2016, 16:48:25
Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Here is what I did with one of my V60 boards with Matias Click switches:
[attach=1]
After hybridizing the switches, I put on dye-sub PBT alphanumeric caps from an IBM 5140:
[attach=2]
The hybrid "MatiaBlue" switches have the Matias Click housings, but the sliders, return springs, and click leaves are Blue Alps.
Here is a video with sound comparisons to an identical V60 with Matias Click switches:
The hybridized switches have taken on some of the characteristics of Blue Alps. They are lighter and quieter than Matias Clicks. The procedure is tedious, but with the V60, it might be easier than desoldering the stock switches and soldering iin the new switches.
I have also tried putting a V60MTS-C into a TEX aluminum case, but it ruined the sound. In the aluminum case, the switches lost the resonant sounding board of the hollow plastic and ended up sounding like Cherry blues. I also tried the aluminum case with the "MatiaBlue" switches -- same result. The aluminum case looks nice, but it spoils the sound.
BTW, older V60MTS boards only have one hole for mounting in a standard 60% aluminum case. Newer ones have 3 holes, which seems sufficient, but again, I did not like the effect the aluminum case had on the sound of the keyboard.
The red Esc keys from SP look fine to me on the V60 in its stock case -- it is difficult to notice the difference in profile:
[attach=3]
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 18:24:18
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 07 November 2016, 18:33:00
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 07 November 2016, 19:06:50
Wow that is pretty cool, that might actually work as well. I could test a few switches first and if it seems fine I could just go that route.Anyone have any opinions on just buying a V60 and swapping in my green alps?Here is what I did with one of my V60 boards with Matias Click switches:
(Attachment Link)
After hybridizing the switches, I put on dye-sub PBT alphanumeric caps from an IBM 5140:
(Attachment Link)
The hybrid "MatiaBlue" switches have the Matias Click housings, but the sliders, return springs, and click leaves are Blue Alps.
Here is a video with sound comparisons to an identical V60 with Matias Click switches:
The hybridized switches have taken on some of the characteristics of Blue Alps. They are lighter and quieter than Matias Clicks. The procedure is tedious, but with the V60, it might be easier than desoldering the stock switches and soldering iin the new switches.
I have also tried putting a V60MTS-C into a TEX aluminum case, but it ruined the sound. In the aluminum case, the switches lost the resonant sounding board of the hollow plastic and ended up sounding like Cherry blues. I also tried the aluminum case with the "MatiaBlue" switches -- same result. The aluminum case looks nice, but it spoils the sound.
BTW, older V60MTS boards only have one hole for mounting in a standard 60% aluminum case. Newer ones have 3 holes, which seems sufficient, but again, I did not like the effect the aluminum case had on the sound of the keyboard.
The red Esc keys from SP look fine to me on the V60 in its stock case -- it is difficult to notice the difference in profile:
(Attachment Link)
As it stands, if I were go to that route, I am trying to decide which v60 is the better choice to make. Do I get a matias linear, or a do I get the white fukka (lol) switches?
Are there any major differences in these switches, and their housings that would make one better over the other if I were to just swap the internals.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 08 November 2016, 07:36:40
BTW, I am thinking of an alternative name for the hybrid switch, such as "Matiblu" (inspired by Malibu). ;)
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 08 November 2016, 09:39:19
My V60 was with Matias Click switches. The MatiaBlue mod should work starting with Matias Quiet switches as well. I am not sure about Matias Quiet Linear or Fukka switches.Matiblu sounds better :)
BTW, I am thinking of an alternative name for the hybrid switch, such as "Matiblu" (inspired by Malibu). ;)
So correct me if I am wrong, the only difference between simplified and complicated alps lies in the leaf mechanism, but the slider is the same between them and therefore is interchangeable between SKCL and SKBL. Right?
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 08 November 2016, 15:56:00
Don't want to remove the dry lube on some of them, but they are already scratchy. If the tops themselves aren't already shot, I may experiment with some Molybdenum Disulfide on them. Worth it to lube the springs?
My Alps switches by condition:
Blue • NOS, No need to clean
Amber, Brown, Orange • Very Good, No need to clean
Ivory, Green • Mostly Good
Yellow • Expecting to be Sub-par
Salmon (may no keep) • Awful
Also, any considerable difference in SKCL Yellow and SKCL Green tops? Probably going to swap them.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Tue, 08 November 2016, 16:25:45
I am looking to buy an ultrasonic cleaner to restore a few of my boards. Any recommendations or things that I should look out for?
Don't want to remove the dry lube on some of them, but they are already scratchy. If the tops themselves aren't already shot, I may experiment with some Molybdenum Disulfide on them. Worth it to lube the springs?
My Alps switches by condition:
Blue • NOS, No need to clean
Amber, Brown, Orange • Very Good, No need to clean
Ivory, Green • Mostly Good
Yellow • Expecting to be Sub-par
Salmon (may no keep) • Awful
Also, any considerable difference in SKCL Yellow and SKCL Green tops? Probably going to swap them.
This one, or the ones that look like it, are the budget recommendation
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Stainless-Steel-2-L-Liter-Industry-Heated-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Digital-w-Timer-/121910309568?hash=item1c626bb2c0:g:PQoAAOSw8gVX8Hkt
Big enough to fit a whole batch of caps in one go, not that that really matters.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 08 November 2016, 17:22:37
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_serieshttps://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
Sliders can be interchangeable, but sliders in linear Alps are the same when rotated 180 degrees, whereas sliders in non-linear Alps are not rotationally symmetrical -- they have a notch on the side that faces the switchplate.
MandrewDavis: I've had good luck with the iSonic P48200-WPB:
https://www.amazon.com/iSonic%C2%AE-Professional-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-P4820-WPB/dp/B009BC4S0G/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1478646921&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=isonic+p4820
I've lubed some of my Alps switches. I use Superlube 51010 oil applied sparingly with a small paintbrush only to the slide rails in the top housing. I don't lube the springs except partially and indirectly -- in order to keep the spring in place when reassembling the switch, I put a small dab of Superlube grease on the spring post in the slider.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 08 November 2016, 18:21:12
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 08 November 2016, 18:35:31
Imo mixing SKCM Blue (or any non common Alps switch) with Matias is morally wrong.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 08 November 2016, 18:41:28
Still undecided if I should restore it, modify it (e.g. teensy), or dismantle it.
I guess I won't stand a full-size keyboard for too long: my desk space at home is quite crammed - keyboard+mouse pad of 55cm width and as I would have to force the mouse outside the pad hitting the laptop dock. Bringing this nice toy to my office is also not a good idea as I'm quite junior there: with such a high profile and obvious sign of distraction from work, I will have even more pressure from my boss.
I love the SGI Granite, even for the models with non-working connections (PCB & cable), I don't want to slaughter them.
If I keep it or resell it as a whole piece, then I need another board for the Alps switches and the alphanumeric caps. :'( :-[ :-\
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 08 November 2016, 19:08:11
Imo mixing SKCM Blue (or any non common Alps switch) with Matias is morally wrong.
Hypersphere committed many things: the sodomy between SKCM Blue and Matias, and the murder of an IBM 5140 above.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 08 November 2016, 23:50:13
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/sop/5862639081.html
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 09 November 2016, 00:13:48
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Wed, 09 November 2016, 00:29:45
Wat this?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/sop/5862639081.html
kinda looks like a Focus 2001 clone
kinda, like this?
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Tai-Hao_TH-5539
Could have some nice switches!
Post by: E3E on Wed, 09 November 2016, 00:34:34
Wat this?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/sop/5862639081.html
APC is a Tai Hao rebrand so it might have Tai Hao Aruz. Other than that, I doubt it has anything else of much worth. Caps are Tai Hao standard doubleshots.
It could also have APC clones or possibly white Alps. Very slim chance of blue Alps, but I doubt it.
Post by: drevyek on Wed, 09 November 2016, 00:36:38
I'd say to do what I did (60%), or to buy a TKL PCB and cut it down to that. The full size is nice, yeah, and worth preserving in its glory, but not if it's just going to languish. Better to use it than keep it cooped up.
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 09 November 2016, 02:10:23
The Granite case is awesome. IMO it's begging for a cut-down mod. I was reeeaally close to doing one myself, but I instead went with cutting down the plate to a standard 60% with an Alps64 PCB. The standard PCB for it was too much of a hassle for me to deal with. The plate however is great- winkeyless and stepped caps, and very thick and weighty. It came out well, and would recommend it highly as a fun project.
I'd say to do what I did (60%), or to buy a TKL PCB and cut it down to that. The full size is nice, yeah, and worth preserving in its glory, but not if it's just going to languish. Better to use it than keep it cooped up.
Can such mod be done? Cutting it to a 60% seems challenging, would love to see an example like that. :eek:
Post by: drevyek on Wed, 09 November 2016, 23:17:36
Not sure about what PCB would fit in, but I had mapped out the cut-lines on my Granite case that would accommodate a TKL or "60 + Fn" layout. It's a bit of creative cutting, but you can work your way around cutting out anything important (including the label). I would only try it if I had access to a dremel, which I (at the moment) do not. The PCB to use, not sure. It'd probably need to add in aftermarket supports to fit into a standard PCB, like a B.87 or similar.The Granite case is awesome. IMO it's begging for a cut-down mod. I was reeeaally close to doing one myself, but I instead went with cutting down the plate to a standard 60% with an Alps64 PCB. The standard PCB for it was too much of a hassle for me to deal with. The plate however is great- winkeyless and stepped caps, and very thick and weighty. It came out well, and would recommend it highly as a fun project.
I'd say to do what I did (60%), or to buy a TKL PCB and cut it down to that. The full size is nice, yeah, and worth preserving in its glory, but not if it's just going to languish. Better to use it than keep it cooped up.
Can such mod be done? Cutting it to a 60% seems challenging, would love to see an example like that. :eek:
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 10 November 2016, 04:04:30
Not sure about what PCB would fit in, but I had mapped out the cut-lines on my Granite case that would accommodate a TKL or "60 + Fn" layout. It's a bit of creative cutting, but you can work your way around cutting out anything important (including the label). I would only try it if I had access to a dremel, which I (at the moment) do not. The PCB to use, not sure. It'd probably need to add in aftermarket supports to fit into a standard PCB, like a B.87 or similar.The Granite case is awesome. IMO it's begging for a cut-down mod. I was reeeaally close to doing one myself, but I instead went with cutting down the plate to a standard 60% with an Alps64 PCB. The standard PCB for it was too much of a hassle for me to deal with. The plate however is great- winkeyless and stepped caps, and very thick and weighty. It came out well, and would recommend it highly as a fun project.
I'd say to do what I did (60%), or to buy a TKL PCB and cut it down to that. The full size is nice, yeah, and worth preserving in its glory, but not if it's just going to languish. Better to use it than keep it cooped up.
Can such mod be done? Cutting it to a 60% seems challenging, would love to see an example like that. :eek:
I really hesitate to try to cut if if my chop-job is not as good as theirs the BS gang:
(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yRzkCb0.jpg)
The second one (or both) might be a shop-job instead.
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 10 November 2016, 11:24:14
And then I realized there are only a handful of PCB offerings for Alps switches, not to mention the possibility of plates and cases.
What will be the possibility to build a 75% Alps board completed with case and key set?
Do I have to source for Korea's Duck0113 again?
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 November 2016, 11:35:40
Read about the great project by E3E on a hot-swappable Duck Eagle PCB based Alps board.
And then I realized there are only a handful of PCB offerings for Alps switches, not to mention the possibility of plates and cases.
What will be the possibility to build a 75% Alps board completed with case and key set?
Do I have to source for Korea's Duck0113 again?
:)
Unfortunately, we still have no offerings for 75% Alps keyboards. It's been something I've been looking out for for a while, but alas, nothing so far. The closest thing to an Alps 75% we have is the VE.A.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 11:50:31
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 November 2016, 11:55:33
the octagon 1 doesn't support alps?
Nope. It was rumored to before it went into GB, but Duck didn't design the PCB to be MXAlps. The last of his PCBs to have that feature were from the Duck Eagle/Viper v1 and the Lightpad.
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 10 November 2016, 12:40:10
Read about the great project by E3E on a hot-swappable Duck Eagle PCB based Alps board.
And then I realized there are only a handful of PCB offerings for Alps switches, not to mention the possibility of plates and cases.
What will be the possibility to build a 75% Alps board completed with case and key set?
Do I have to source for Korea's Duck0113 again?
:)
Unfortunately, we still have no offerings for 75% Alps keyboards. It's been something I've been looking out for for a while, but alas, nothing so far. The closest thing to an Alps 75% we have is the VE.A.
Your building log is an asset to GH for Alps beginners.
Please keep us posted as I may miss details of many IC / GB out there.
After I've harvested enough Alps switches from the great boards of the old days, I want to build a 75% hot-swappable as 75% is my most comfortable layout, coming from a ThinkPad. Will definitely build a 60% for sure - I have been thinking about Alps64 PCB by Hasu but I really hope he can add LED support to the board soon, Hasu's probably super busy with many things though.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 November 2016, 13:22:25
Read about the great project by E3E on a hot-swappable Duck Eagle PCB based Alps board.
And then I realized there are only a handful of PCB offerings for Alps switches, not to mention the possibility of plates and cases.
What will be the possibility to build a 75% Alps board completed with case and key set?
Do I have to source for Korea's Duck0113 again?
:)
Unfortunately, we still have no offerings for 75% Alps keyboards. It's been something I've been looking out for for a while, but alas, nothing so far. The closest thing to an Alps 75% we have is the VE.A.
Your building log is an asset to GH for Alps beginners.
Please keep us posted as I may miss details of many IC / GB out there.
After I've harvested enough Alps switches from the great boards of the old days, I want to build a 75% hot-swappable as 75% is my most comfortable layout, coming from a ThinkPad. Will definitely build a 60% for sure - I have been thinking about Alps64 PCB by Hasu but I really hope he can add LED support to the board soon, Hasu's probably super busy with many things though.
I'm glad it's such an asset to you! If you need help with hot swap modifying a PCB in the future, I'm always here to help.
Yes, what you described would be awesome though, a hot-swappable 75% with backlighting. Most people who design Alps PCBs don't focus on the backlighting aspect. The only PCBs that have it across the keys are PCBs that also have Cherry MX compatibility.
So it's not even really intended for Alps, but it can be made to work for it. The other main issue with backlighting is that you will almost certainly need to drill LED holes in the switches for the legs to pass through since linear Alps did not come standard with the holes on the bottom housing for LEDs. Matias is an exception since it has transparent housings, so that is the easier route if you want backlighting, but you would still need a proper PCB for it. The Infinity v2 PCB is an option there for 60%s.
It's a process, but it really makes you appreciate the keybaord even more so after it's done and functional!
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 10 November 2016, 14:00:05
MoreRead about the great project by E3E on a hot-swappable Duck Eagle PCB based Alps board.
And then I realized there are only a handful of PCB offerings for Alps switches, not to mention the possibility of plates and cases.
What will be the possibility to build a 75% Alps board completed with case and key set?
Do I have to source for Korea's Duck0113 again?
:)
Unfortunately, we still have no offerings for 75% Alps keyboards. It's been something I've been looking out for for a while, but alas, nothing so far. The closest thing to an Alps 75% we have is the VE.A.
Your building log is an asset to GH for Alps beginners.
Please keep us posted as I may miss details of many IC / GB out there.
After I've harvested enough Alps switches from the great boards of the old days, I want to build a 75% hot-swappable as 75% is my most comfortable layout, coming from a ThinkPad. Will definitely build a 60% for sure - I have been thinking about Alps64 PCB by Hasu but I really hope he can add LED support to the board soon, Hasu's probably super busy with many things though.
I'm glad it's such an asset to you! If you need help with hot swap modifying a PCB in the future, I'm always here to help.
Yes, what you described would be awesome though, a hot-swappable 75% with backlighting. Most people who design Alps PCBs don't focus on the backlighting aspect. The only PCBs that have it across the keys are PCBs that also have Cherry MX compatibility.
So it's not even really intended for Alps, but it can be made to work for it. The other main issue with backlighting is that you will almost certainly need to drill LED holes in the switches for the legs to pass through since linear Alps did not come standard with the holes on the bottom housing for LEDs. Matias is an exception since it has transparent housings, so that is the easier route if you want backlighting, but you would still need a proper PCB for it. The Infinity v2 PCB is an option there for 60%s.
It's a process, but it really makes you appreciate the keybaord even more so after it's done and functional!
Matias's switches are transparent, so the LEDs can just be mounted on the surface of PCB below the switch? I'm talking about LEDs because I'm thinking about the Green Alps.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 November 2016, 14:11:32
Matias's switches are transparent, so the LEDs can just be mounted on the surface of PCB below the switch? I'm talking about LEDs because I'm thinking about the Green Alps.
Yep, I think so. I'm not sure how the setup would be with SMD LEDs, but there is an example of Duck showing his Duck Mini v2, which was pretty much the predecessor of the Eagle with LEDs bent backwards under the PCB to shine through the holes that are used for the MX stem wells.
If you have the patience, it's not too hard to modify SKCL Green bottom housings for LEDs. You can even do it without taking apart the switch! You just need a small pin vise and drill bit for it and you can do it easily.
Both Mattr and I have done this for backlit builds, though I think Mattr's project got screwed because of the V60 being a pain to desolder.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 16:38:14
(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/muW3a54.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/r4msq8E.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 16:41:34
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 10 November 2016, 16:45:26
This should be the poster child for dirty Alps.
Nasty! My photo might be the "dirty but still redeemable - with some work" version.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 16:49:58
Is that out of a dc-2014? Were the switches clean atleast?
This should be the poster child for dirty Alps.
Nasty! My photo might be the "dirty but still redeemable - with some work" version.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 November 2016, 16:58:39
This should be the poster child for dirty Alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/muW3a54.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/r4msq8E.jpg)
They're like homeless Alps switches.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 17:06:16
This should be the poster child for dirty Alps.
Nasty! My photo might be the "dirty but still redeemable - with some work" version.
Well I'm sending these to E3E for an ultrasonic cleaning. Redeemable we'll see. I've already done work on them. Cleanish but an ultrasonic will get to those tight spaces I can't. There not super smooth and a few bind a bit.
What's hilarious is those switches that are stuck down in those pics aren't broken, there simply stuck down from all the gunk that's inside them. You could use a small screw driver to lift the slider back up and when you pressed it down they would stick again. That's how bad it was.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 17:12:44
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 10 November 2016, 17:25:41
Now that I've spent more time with my KBP V60 boards, one with the Matiblu hybrids and the other with unmodified Matias Click switches, I find that I prefer typing on the unmodified Matias Click switches. My speed and accuracy are also better on the Matias Clicks. They provide a more precise feel. The Matiblu switches are certainly quieter and they are also lighter -- perhaps too light.
I have 4 Matias-switch V60s that were purchased in 2014 and 2015. I have had no problems with them and they are still going strong.
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 10 November 2016, 17:54:05
This should be the poster child for dirty Alps.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/muW3a54.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/r4msq8E.jpg)
What are these?
(https://thumb9.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/113263/141815842/stock-photo-miniature-toy-soldiers-in-desert-battle-scene-macro-with-shallow-dof-141815842.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/r4msq8E.jpg)
(http://digital-photography-school.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/toyphoto1.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/muW3a54.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 10 November 2016, 19:21:32
These were pretty ****:
Those are better than at least 2/3 of the keyboards that I have bought on ebay.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 10 November 2016, 21:11:03
This should be the poster child for dirty Alps.Yeah, I don't think that those would be.... representative xD .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/nXIEENO.jpg)
That said, I once found an AT102W with fluff everywhere reaching all the way to the top of the housing... AND it had drowned xD .
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 21:22:13
They're like homeless Alps switches.Kicked to the Chinese curb so to speak? Lol. If these switches could talk they would have a story to tell indeed.
Yeah, I don't think that those would be.... representative xD .They will be after ultrasonic lol :p
That said, I once found an AT102W with fluff everywhere reaching all the way to the top of the housing... AND it had drowned xD .
The ultimate test of how far gone a Alps switch can truly go.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 21:22:25
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 10 November 2016, 21:27:29
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 11 November 2016, 02:19:45
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAI-BASIC-FOUR-Information-Rare-Vintage-Keyboard-4313/191995061736?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39007%26meid%3D5371405d9e37443ba19472b7b4b472bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112166410300 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAI-BASIC-FOUR-Information-Rare-Vintage-Keyboard-4313/191995061736?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39007%26meid%3D5371405d9e37443ba19472b7b4b472bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112166410300)
What do you guys think? Im thinking SKCL greens or something foam and foil.
I bought this board because I couldn't find any information on it and I was curious about it. It has some pretty nice dyesub PBT caps and Fujitsu Leaf Spring Clicky 3rd generation switches. It has a very soft click that is really quiet and the travel distance seems shorter than I'm used to.. I'm going to see if I can fix the stabilizer on it and get it working:D
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 11 November 2016, 06:24:31
Good to know for the future. Interesting board! not sure if there are any converters available, do you know what protocol it uses?http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAI-BASIC-FOUR-Information-Rare-Vintage-Keyboard-4313/191995061736?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39007%26meid%3D5371405d9e37443ba19472b7b4b472bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112166410300 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAI-BASIC-FOUR-Information-Rare-Vintage-Keyboard-4313/191995061736?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39007%26meid%3D5371405d9e37443ba19472b7b4b472bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112166410300)
What do you guys think? Im thinking SKCL greens or something foam and foil.
I bought this board because I couldn't find any information on it and I was curious about it. It has some pretty nice dyesub PBT caps and Fujitsu Leaf Spring Clicky 3rd generation switches. It has a very soft click that is really quiet and the travel distance seems shorter than I'm used to.. I'm going to see if I can fix the stabilizer on it and get it working:D
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 11 November 2016, 07:24:16
with fluff everywhere reaching all the way to the top of the housing...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=board%20chow (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=board%20chow)
Post by: chyros on Fri, 11 November 2016, 08:04:30
Hahaha, no, unfortunately it wasn't FOOD that was in there xD .
with fluff everywhere reaching all the way to the top of the housing...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=board%20chow (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=board%20chow)
Post by: ctm on Fri, 11 November 2016, 08:40:41
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 11 November 2016, 08:55:11
Post by: ctm on Fri, 11 November 2016, 09:02:31
@ctm: Is the spacebar 6.25x? Does it have dual receptacles on each side for Cherry-mount stabilizer inserts? Which positions are you using -- those closest to the center or those farther away? I would recommend using the mounts that are a greater distance from the center and using a stabilizer wire to match. Then, lube the stabilizer clips and inserts with grease. You can also put some adhesive foam strips inside the spacebar to deaden it, and put thin foam strips on the plate where the spacebar inserts hit the plate. Finally, if you don't mind modding a switch, you can put a slider from a Matias Quiet switch in the spacebar switch -- this will make the spacebar much quieter if the original switch is not already damped.Thanks a lot. My spacebar is a 6.25x Taihao with Cherry mount on sides. I am using the the further Cherry stab insert and I have lubed the wire. My biggest problem is not the sound but the degree it can rotate. I think this might be due to the lack of plunger like in vintage alps.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 11 November 2016, 09:09:14
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 11 November 2016, 13:11:33
Good to know for the future. Interesting board! not sure if there are any converters available, do you know what protocol it uses?http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAI-BASIC-FOUR-Information-Rare-Vintage-Keyboard-4313/191995061736?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39007%26meid%3D5371405d9e37443ba19472b7b4b472bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112166410300 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAI-BASIC-FOUR-Information-Rare-Vintage-Keyboard-4313/191995061736?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39007%26meid%3D5371405d9e37443ba19472b7b4b472bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112166410300)
What do you guys think? Im thinking SKCL greens or something foam and foil.
I bought this board because I couldn't find any information on it and I was curious about it. It has some pretty nice dyesub PBT caps and Fujitsu Leaf Spring Clicky 3rd generation switches. It has a very soft click that is really quiet and the travel distance seems shorter than I'm used to.. I'm going to see if I can fix the stabilizer on it and get it working:D
I'm not really sure, I'm still learning about it. The connection looks like RJ11 6P6C or 4C. The board belonged to a MAI Basic Four 2000 system whose serial ports were IBM bisync compatible
Heres the manual for the MAI system I've been reading
http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/MAI/software/MAI%20Basic%20Four%20System%202000%20Service%20Manual.pdf
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 11 November 2016, 23:11:26
Pics
(http://i.imgur.com/KB7FutS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QZqdDLB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uZGmV84.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YbkD8xN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iFVS6Pt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/E43fQM3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Pox9ICF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e7hpL6p.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6JPM5oH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vKclKnH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P2DYybo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yXHqHK1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qOJDdBo.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 11 November 2016, 23:19:45
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 11 November 2016, 23:26:32
I got my Zenith from Wingpad today and I put a ton of hours into it. Cleaning and swapping. Came out really well. Just needs retrobright and it's done. Used a baking powder + vinegar solution on the case to clean it since it's textured and normal methods aren't very effective at removing grime from the crevices. You can see in the before/after pics how well the baking soda did. After cleaning I then swapped in the SKCL Striped Amber's and Green's. Types beautifully now. The one snag I ran into is with the led's. Turns out in the Z-150 they have them oriented in the opposite direction compared to the ZKB-2/163-73 so at first none of the led's worked since they were backwards lol.
PicsShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/KB7FutS.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QZqdDLB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uZGmV84.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YbkD8xN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iFVS6Pt.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/E43fQM3.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Pox9ICF.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e7hpL6p.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6JPM5oH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vKclKnH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/P2DYybo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yXHqHK1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qOJDdBo.jpg)
I love yellow alps
:confused:
Favorite alps:
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 11 November 2016, 23:44:59
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 12 November 2016, 00:11:27
I got my Zenith from Wingpad today and I put a ton of hours into it. Cleaning and swapping. Came out really well. Just needs retrobright and it's done. Used a baking powder + vinegar solution on the case to clean it since it's textured and normal methods aren't very effective at removing grime from the crevices. You can see in the before/after pics how well the baking soda did. After cleaning I then swapped in the SKCL Striped Amber's and Green's. Types beautifully now. The one snag I ran into is with the led's. Turns out in the Z-150 they have them oriented in the opposite direction compared to the ZKB-2/163-73 so at first none of the led's worked since they were backwards lol.That board is looks great, going to copy that baking soda vingar method! Rock solid case with dye-subs, a BEEPer and the alps that are among the most obscure in the world. Whats not to like. I hope you find one of those badass lightning Zenith logos, makes you wonder why they switched it to a lame ol' tree.
PicsShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/KB7FutS.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QZqdDLB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uZGmV84.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YbkD8xN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iFVS6Pt.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/E43fQM3.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Pox9ICF.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e7hpL6p.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6JPM5oH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vKclKnH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/P2DYybo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yXHqHK1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qOJDdBo.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 12 November 2016, 00:33:03
That board is looks great, going to copy that baking soda vingar method! Rock solid case with dye-subs, a BEEPer and the alps that are among the most obscure in the world. Whats not to like. I hope you find one of those badass lightning Zenith logos, makes you wonder why they switched it to a lame ol' tree.Thanks. It's really fun to use. I've been wanting a solid full size linear board for a while. Yea hopefully I can find an old logo, it would really improve the aesthetic. IRL the tree logo isn't super terrible but I don't like the font on the 'zenith'. Looks like a toy.
For the backing soda method you mix baking soda and water to create a paste and apply it to the plastic. Then create a mixture of two parts water one part white vinegar. After letting the paste sit for a couple minutes dip a cotton ball or something into the vinegar solution and scrub the areas where the backing soda is applied. It should react. Do this until it's clean. Finally wash off with water.
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 12 November 2016, 00:36:41
I got my Zenith from Wingpad today and I put a ton of hours into it. Cleaning and swapping. Came out really well. Just needs retrobright and it's done. Used a baking powder + vinegar solution on the case to clean it since it's textured and normal methods aren't very effective at removing grime from the crevices. You can see in the before/after pics how well the baking soda did. After cleaning I then swapped in the SKCL Striped Amber's and Green's. Types beautifully now. The one snag I ran into is with the led's. Turns out in the Z-150 they have them oriented in the opposite direction compared to the ZKB-2/163-73 so at first none of the led's worked since they were backwards lol.That's that I already cleaned a layer of grime off of it in the first place... At least you didn't have to clean the caps and the plate because I already did those, haha. Looks really nice, though. Hope you enjoy it... if not, I'd love to have a go on it again now ;)
PicsShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/KB7FutS.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QZqdDLB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uZGmV84.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YbkD8xN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/iFVS6Pt.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/E43fQM3.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Pox9ICF.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e7hpL6p.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6JPM5oH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vKclKnH.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/P2DYybo.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yXHqHK1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qOJDdBo.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 12 November 2016, 00:50:27
That's that I already cleaned a layer of grime off of it in the first place... At least you didn't have to clean the caps and the plate because I already did those, haha. Looks really nice, though. Hope you enjoy it... if not, I'd love to have a go on it again now ;)That must of been the top layer lol. Cleaning the case actually still took a lot of time/effort. The texture makes it a pita to get a deep clean like I did. Retrobright will make it look factory fresh ;)
Got my nifty SKCL Grey off of the Zenith for my now 100% complete switch tester. Also the original green led from the SKCL Yellow is Grey when it's off interestingly enough.
(http://i.imgur.com/0ol6lsO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dntsbCd.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 12 November 2016, 01:27:05
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 12 November 2016, 06:51:50
Post by: E3E on Sat, 12 November 2016, 07:31:29
With the finding of SKCL Striped Amber, now nobody else can have a truly complete switch tester :(
I mean, I could! I'm really not a fan of switch testers though because they're not really representative of how it feels to type on any of the sampled switches. It's kind of like zooming into just the individual dots of a piece of art drawn using stippling. You don't really get that full effect.
So I never really cared to put one together. Even functionally, like having the switches on my Lightpad, for example, it would be a bit awkward to use it with a different switch on every key, haha.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 12 November 2016, 08:10:19
*Zenith*I love my ZKB-2R. A NIB one is one of the few boards I'm still on the lookout for.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 14 November 2016, 16:18:47
Can't decide on whether or not to use the buzzer. Right now I'm not because I want to hear the lovely sound of Alps on PBT caps.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 14 November 2016, 18:15:05
Starting to get used to the Zenith. Took some time coming from tactile/clicky Alps.The repeat function kills it for me. It's too annoying. Otherwise it would've been acceptable for me.
Can't decide on whether or not to use the buzzer. Right now I'm not because I want to hear the lovely sound of Alps on PBT caps.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 14 November 2016, 18:20:47
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 14 November 2016, 18:45:30
(http://i.imgur.com/VnBZyy0.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 15 November 2016, 07:56:39
Post by: chyros on Tue, 15 November 2016, 09:07:46
@E3E: I agree with you about the limited utility of switch testers. I find that I need the context of a complete keyboard in order to form a full impression of a given type of switch. Moreover, the sound and feel of the switches varies from one keyboard to another and from one region to another on the same board. That said, it is impractical to test a wide variety switches on complete keyboards, and so a switch tester provides a starting point for comparing multiple types of switches with one another.Yeah, absolutely agreed. I try holding out on switches I haven't tried in a full board because it's so easy to get a wrong picture from a loose switch or even a whole keypad full. You have to use them, type on them to really know. But for comparison reasons, a switch tester like this can be quite useful indeed.
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 15 November 2016, 12:49:22
@E3E: I agree with you about the limited utility of switch testers. I find that I need the context of a complete keyboard in order to form a full impression of a given type of switch. Moreover, the sound and feel of the switches varies from one keyboard to another and from one region to another on the same board. That said, it is impractical to test a wide variety switches on complete keyboards, and so a switch tester provides a starting point for comparing multiple types of switches with one another.
Switch testers are fascinating kits to have.
However, the keyboard experience is holistic just like how you enjoy a piece of steak in a restaurant: the steak itself (non-GMO certified vs organic vs Japanese Kobe), the seasoning, the preparation (Chinese restaurant, Italian restaurant, etc) , the serving, the environment and your mood.
P.s. I'm a vegetarian.
Now I have to think about lubing the Alps switches on the newly arrived SGI Granite (luckily everything in really good condition) because the Alps SKCM creme dampened switches (or are they white instead??) are not as smooth as what I remember them to be.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 15 November 2016, 12:51:07
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 15 November 2016, 13:22:27
@E3E: I agree with you about the limited utility of switch testers. I find that I need the context of a complete keyboard in order to form a full impression of a given type of switch. Moreover, the sound and feel of the switches varies from one keyboard to another and from one region to another on the same board. That said, it is impractical to test a wide variety switches on complete keyboards, and so a switch tester provides a starting point for comparing multiple types of switches with one another.
Switch testers are fascinating kits to have.
However, the keyboard experience is holistic just like how you enjoy a piece of steak in a restaurant: the steak itself (non-GMO certified vs organic vs Japanese Kobe), the seasoning, the preparation (Chinese restaurant, Italian restaurant, etc) , the serving, the environment and your mood.
P.s. I'm a vegetarian.
Now I have to think about lubing the Alps switches on the newly arrived SGI Granite (luckily everything in really good condition) because the Alps SKCM creme dampened switches (or are they white instead??) are not as smooth as what I remember them to be.
they could be dampened whites? I think. I've only ever seen dampened whites/creams in the four or five SGI's that I've had
I've investigated by opening up one of them - they're without slits, so damped white instead of damped cream.
And these SKCM white (bamboo?) damped are so scratchy - more scratchy than my PLUM Topre-clone 35g and quite a bit rougher than my taste prefers.
Has someone compared damped cream vs damped white? Are they very different?
I'm trying to look for that cushioned bottoming out and smooth tactile bump experience again - without so much noise.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 15 November 2016, 13:45:33
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 15 November 2016, 14:32:48
More@E3E: I agree with you about the limited utility of switch testers. I find that I need the context of a complete keyboard in order to form a full impression of a given type of switch. Moreover, the sound and feel of the switches varies from one keyboard to another and from one region to another on the same board. That said, it is impractical to test a wide variety switches on complete keyboards, and so a switch tester provides a starting point for comparing multiple types of switches with one another.
Sir, have you been drinking tonight?
Switch testers are fascinating kits to have.
However, the keyboard experience is holistic just like how you enjoy a piece of steak in a restaurant: the steak itself (non-GMO certified vs organic vs Japanese Kobe), the seasoning, the preparation (Chinese restaurant, Italian restaurant, etc) , the serving, the environment and your mood.
P.s. I'm a vegetarian.
Now I have to think about lubing the Alps switches on the newly arrived SGI Granite (luckily everything in really good condition) because the Alps SKCM creme dampened switches (or are they white instead??) are not as smooth as what I remember them to be.
they could be dampened whites? I think. I've only ever seen dampened whites/creams in the four or five SGI's that I've had
I've investigated by opening up one of them - they're without clits, so probably white instead of cream, damped.
And these SKCM white (bamboo?) damped are so scratchy - more scratchy than my PLUM Topre-clone 35g.
Has someone compared damped cream vs damped white? Are they very different?
I'm trying to look for that cushioned bottoming out and smooth tactile bump experience again - without so much noise.
Dampened whites feel better to me hacing compared with two boards in similar good condition. Dampened whites aren't too loud to me, but that is a preference.
Funny I think dampened white more than regular white, but I prefer regular creams to the dampened ones
Sir, have you been drinking tonight?
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 15 November 2016, 15:29:57
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 15 November 2016, 23:05:01
(http://images.revlon.com/~/media/images/revlon/products/beautytools/p_tools_eyes_compacttweezerslant.ashx)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 15 November 2016, 23:56:02
Very Good Switch Opener:BetterShow Image(http://images.revlon.com/~/media/images/revlon/products/beautytools/p_tools_eyes_compacttweezerslant.ashx)
(https://img1.etsystatic.com/003/0/5390602/il_fullxfull.371505989_aeko.jpg)
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 16 November 2016, 01:58:12
(http://i.imgur.com/KhS5flm.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 16 November 2016, 02:06:00
Post by: chyros on Wed, 16 November 2016, 04:22:54
any guesses on these? They look a bit pale to be skcm greens... from a Chicony KB-5181The slider on them isn't green btw, it's yellowed blue plastic xD . Like Matt said they're Montereys, often confused for SKCM blue. Both are Alps mount. Great switches actually.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KhS5flm.jpg)
Post by: drevyek on Wed, 16 November 2016, 09:25:04
I've had great results with creamsicles- cream sliders and bottom case, orange springs tactile leaf, and top case. They're a bit rougher than stock oranges, but they're fully damped. Creams are a bit odd- you can feel the 2nd tactile event quite clearly. Not really my cup of tea.@E3E: I agree with you about the limited utility of switch testers. I find that I need the context of a complete keyboard in order to form a full impression of a given type of switch. Moreover, the sound and feel of the switches varies from one keyboard to another and from one region to another on the same board. That said, it is impractical to test a wide variety switches on complete keyboards, and so a switch tester provides a starting point for comparing multiple types of switches with one another.
Switch testers are fascinating kits to have.
However, the keyboard experience is holistic just like how you enjoy a piece of steak in a restaurant: the steak itself (non-GMO certified vs organic vs Japanese Kobe), the seasoning, the preparation (Chinese restaurant, Italian restaurant, etc) , the serving, the environment and your mood.
P.s. I'm a vegetarian.
Now I have to think about lubing the Alps switches on the newly arrived SGI Granite (luckily everything in really good condition) because the Alps SKCM creme dampened switches (or are they white instead??) are not as smooth as what I remember them to be.
they could be dampened whites? I think. I've only ever seen dampened whites/creams in the four or five SGI's that I've had
I've investigated by opening up one of them - they're without slits, so damped white instead of damped cream.
And these SKCM white (bamboo?) damped are so scratchy - more scratchy than my PLUM Topre-clone 35g and quite a bit rougher than my taste prefers.
Has someone compared damped cream vs damped white? Are they very different?
I'm trying to look for that cushioned bottoming out and smooth tactile bump experience again - without so much noise.
Post by: opensecret on Wed, 16 November 2016, 22:01:08
@E3E: I agree with you about the limited utility of switch testers. I find that I need the context of a complete keyboard in order to form a full impression of a given type of switch. Moreover, the sound and feel of the switches varies from one keyboard to another and from one region to another on the same board. That said, it is impractical to test a wide variety switches on complete keyboards, and so a switch tester provides a starting point for comparing multiple types of switches with one another.
Switch testers are fascinating kits to have.
However, the keyboard experience is holistic just like how you enjoy a piece of steak in a restaurant: the steak itself (non-GMO certified vs organic vs Japanese Kobe), the seasoning, the preparation (Chinese restaurant, Italian restaurant, etc) , the serving, the environment and your mood.
P.s. I'm a vegetarian.
Now I have to think about lubing the Alps switches on the newly arrived SGI Granite (luckily everything in really good condition) because the Alps SKCM creme dampened switches (or are they white instead??) are not as smooth as what I remember them to be.
they could be dampened whites? I think. I've only ever seen dampened whites/creams in the four or five SGI's that I've had
I've investigated by opening up one of them - they're without slits, so damped white instead of damped cream.
And these SKCM white (bamboo?) damped are so scratchy - more scratchy than my PLUM Topre-clone 35g and quite a bit rougher than my taste prefers.
Has someone compared damped cream vs damped white? Are they very different?
I'm trying to look for that cushioned bottoming out and smooth tactile bump experience again - without so much noise.
Most of my Alps experience has been with SKCM whites, which I'm typing on now (Northgate Omnikey Ultra). To me, they don't feel scratchy, but that could have something to do with the condition of the switches. I get a comfortable feeling of fingers floating over the keys, and no sense of harsh bottoming-out. My only complaint is that they're a little heavier than I wish (I'm partial to variable weight Realforce, so your 35g Topre sounds good to me, and to Cherry reds when I'm typing for long periods of time).
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 17 November 2016, 07:26:15
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 17 November 2016, 09:18:59
SKCM white Alps in good condition in a solid chassis like a Northgate make for a delightful typing experience. If I were to improve upon this, I would consider putting SKCM blue Alps in a Northgate (or finding a Gold Label Northgate Ultra with blue Alps, but I prefer the ANSI layout in a Northgate Omnikey 101).Gold label ultras don't exist, only 102s. On the topic of switch swapping omnikeys, It is definitely the most solid alps chassis available. a true tank. makes any switch sound and feel better with the right caps of course.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 17 November 2016, 09:33:44
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 November 2016, 09:52:33
(http://i.imgur.com/LwSdgL3.jpg)
It's a quirky one. :b
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 17 November 2016, 09:55:25
makes any switch sound and feel better with the right caps of course.
I already expressed my dislike for thin ABS keycaps, even on clicky Alps, but I have to qualify that a bit.
I tried SKCM Whites on a Chicony board with crappy thin ABS keycaps, and I have to say that the sound there is quite pleasing. On the other hand, the sound in either Omnikey 101 or Omnikey Evolution is quite annoying to me. I think it might be down to the metal bottom case, which probably makes the sound much less, for lack of a better word, subtle. YMMV.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 17 November 2016, 10:36:40
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 November 2016, 10:43:39
SGI, wang, at101, or 5140 are easily the best commonly available alps caps. I don't particularly like the tai hao doubleshot caps that come on northgate boards either. The only really good doubleshot alps caps are IBM multistation caps, or alps electric made doubleshots.
Let's not forget these babies:
(http://i.imgur.com/9dPaqgH.jpg)
The OTHER Tai Hao that even Tai Hao forgot about. :-X
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 17 November 2016, 11:48:32
For example, today I was testing a SIIG Suntouch Jr. with pine white Alps and doubleshot ABS caps. The sound is sublime. Much nicer than a very similar board with respect to form factor, layout and construction -- an Ortek MCK-84 with bamboo white Alps and pad-printed ABS caps. The Ortek is not bad at all, it's just that the SIIG is on a higher level.
However, after the surface texture of new ABS caps wears down a bit, they have a clammy feel. I would much rather have the dry feel of PBT caps. I am even willing to tolerate the Italic font on SGI caps in order to have that PBT feel.
BTW, a test that usually works for me to tell ABS from PBT is to apply medium pressure to a keycap with a fingertip and drag my finger toward me. ABS grips the fingertip, which then "stutters" across the surface of the cap, whereas PBT does not grip and the fingertip glides across the cap without stuttering. However, this test did not work with some Acer keycaps, which have a pumice-like texture akin to some of the Chinese PBT keycap sets.
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 17 November 2016, 12:12:53
... today I was testing a SIIG Suntouch Jr. ... an Ortek MCK-84 ...
These are nice Alps models that I can use like how they are: 75%
No cutting of case required.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 17 November 2016, 13:02:22
On another topic, not long ago I got a Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI keyboard with SKCM white Alps, which I set up in my home office. I liked it so much that I decided to get another one for work. The second one seemed to be in better overall shape than the first one, but I didn't like the sound and feel of it as much as the first Northgate. Today I took a closer look at the switches. The preferred Northgate has "pine" white Alps (with slits in the top housing), whereas the less-preferred one has "bamboo" white Alps (without slits).
I had not realized that there was such a palpable difference between pine and bamboo white Alps, but it really seems to be true!
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 17 November 2016, 15:39:48
@menuhin: Yes, I was initially attracted to the form factor of the various 84-key compact keyboards such as the Ortek MCK-84. However, I have become addicted to the HHKB layout, and so these 75% keyboards do not work well for me. I prefer 60%, but I would rather use an ANSI TKL or full-size than the various keyboards in the twilight zone between 60% and TKL.
On another topic, not long ago I got a Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI keyboard with SKCM white Alps, which I set up in my home office. I liked it so much that I decided to get another one for work. The second one seemed to be in better overall shape than the first one, but I didn't like the sound and feel of it as much as the first Northgate. Today I took a closer look at the switches. The preferred Northgate has "pine" white Alps (with slits in the top housing), whereas the less-preferred one has "bamboo" white Alps (without slits).
I had not realized that there was such a palpable difference between pine and bamboo white Alps, but it really seems to be true!
I immediately realized I didn't like the "bamboo" white and quickly set aside the keyboard arrived crossing the pond. Pretty disappointed, and now have to find a way to process that full size keyboard. I know human memory is faulty even at its best, but I'm still interested in trying out the dampened cream SKCM: even I saw its force curve has two bumps and users in here or DT said they can feel two distinctive tactile events instead of just one - similar for Matias QC they said.
Otherwise, I'm now interested to try out these: neon green SKCM > orange SKCM > green linear SKCL > blue SKCM, and it doesn't hurt to try out those Alps clones from Taiwan and Japanese companies (SMK?). I work late and I type softly, I'm just not a clicky switch person.
@Hypersphere
For me I'm a kind of a laptop generation person. Unlike many of my classmates, I didn't have my first computer until college and my first computer was a laptop. So I'm quite accustomed to the size of laptop keyboards. The 75% keyboards have very close layouts with laptop keyboards, e.g. my ThinkPad. 75% is my TKL without the extra space: all keys in the TKL cluster are present in my 75% as independent keys except for the Insert key, otherwise all key layouts are the same, and I reach to the arrow keys in a 75% as quickly as on my full key keyboard. The only extra cluster I may need is customizable short-cuts like the cluster on the left like that on an Optimus Maximus.
If I have enough switches and time (which I don't right now), I'll build a hot-swappable 84 (75%) keyboard: Perhaps two instead of one hot-swappable if I really like the Alps switches.
For 60%, I'm just starting to get use to my HHKB, especially the arrow key combos: JIKL or HJKL is better than the default arrow layout IMHO, and the default Fn key on the HHKB can be a Fn2 key instead, in order to not leave the home row: so Hasu is my friend. It's quite easy to reach the function keys otherwise.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 17 November 2016, 16:19:10
Alps-switch keyboards have changed my mind about doubleshot ABS and even rimless pad-printed ABS keycaps. Part of it is the crisp high-contrast appearance of the legends. However, part of it is the sound when the switches, chassis, and caps are well matched.
For example, today I was testing a SIIG Suntouch Jr. with pine white Alps and doubleshot ABS caps. The sound is sublime. Much nicer than a very similar board with respect to form factor, layout and construction -- an Ortek MCK-84 with bamboo white Alps and pad-printed ABS caps. The Ortek is not bad at all, it's just that the SIIG is on a higher level.
However, after the surface texture of new ABS caps wears down a bit, they have a clammy feel. I would much rather have the dry feel of PBT caps. I am even willing to tolerate the Italic font on SGI caps in order to have that PBT feel.
BTW, a test that usually works for me to tell ABS from PBT is to apply medium pressure to a keycap with a fingertip and drag my finger toward me. ABS grips the fingertip, which then "stutters" across the surface of the cap, whereas PBT does not grip and the fingertip glides across the cap without stuttering. However, this test did not work with some Acer keycaps, which have a pumice-like texture akin to some of the Chinese PBT keycap sets.
Yeah, it seems the only time this really fails is when the ABS has quite the texture like with some Acer caps, or when the PBT is shined to high heaven.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Thu, 17 November 2016, 18:16:23
Immediate conclusions are white dampened>cream dampened, and that these lower profile keycaps are an abomination...But i'll probably get used to them, just like everything else
It's also really nice having a windows key again, even if it's in totally the wrong spot
Post by: drevyek on Thu, 17 November 2016, 23:55:07
...but I'm still interested in trying out the dampened cream SKCM: even I saw its force curve has two bumps and users in here or DT said they can feel two distinctive tactile events instead of just one - similar for Matias QC they said.That's been my experience. Especially with the stock 70g springs, the 2nd event is very noticeable. That said, it isn't all bad. Lightening the springs (using orange springs for example) makes the bumps very smooth, with the second being much cleaner and actually enjoyable. I really like the 2nd alert. If you're a light typer, then it can help to avoid bottoming out as well, a it provided the end-of-stroke resistance that is missing in a lot of other switches with large tactile drop-offs like Alps generally do.
Interestingly, of my creams, they came with 2 different types of springs- one tightly wound, the other more closely resembling the orange springs I was replacing them with.
Post by: Jumie on Fri, 18 November 2016, 03:29:25
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 18 November 2016, 03:42:14
With AEK2s being so popular for harvesting, there should be bounds of orphaned F# keys around the world. Someone should make an ortholinear plate and PCB for these :)
Post by: Jumie on Fri, 18 November 2016, 03:57:30
Post by: Applet on Fri, 18 November 2016, 10:14:52
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 18 November 2016, 10:28:21
My first Alps build. Donor board from aek2 for the switch and keycaps, plate from lasergist.
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!" :p
A nice build indeed.
What PCB are you using and what is the case?
My 60% build for Alps would ideally allow the SGI Granite set (space bar 6.25u?) and the AEK set (space bar 6.5u on your board?). However, I don't know how to do that.
There's a build log for hotswappable mod by E3E so I can think about having top row to have interchangeable HHKB and ANSI layout at the backspace location.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 18 November 2016, 10:59:46
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!"
Serial numbers on AEK go up to 1M, and there are a lot more AEK2s than that, so this is a species that is not threatened.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 18 November 2016, 11:01:43
Post by: chyros on Fri, 18 November 2016, 11:06:45
Yeah, even I wouldn't object to taking AEKIIs apart xD .
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!"
Serial numbers on AEK go up to 1M, and there are a lot more AEK2s than that, so this is a species that is not threatened.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 18 November 2016, 12:34:37
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 18 November 2016, 13:25:27
Yeah, even I wouldn't object to taking AEKIIs apart xD .
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!"
Serial numbers on AEK go up to 1M, and there are a lot more AEK2s than that, so this is a species that is not threatened.
Almost everyone can tell from your videos that you're particularly critical towards Apple's products and Jobs' practices of making his products exclusive and incompatible to the other machines.
I have nothing that I want to defend them, but there're still lots of Apple fanboys and some shouting AEK or AEKII are "best keyboard ever made" (in the universe?).
Among friends and colleagues there are some grew up using only Apple products. It was sad that I once worked with two Apple fanboy professors that equip everything in their lab with Apple products unless they have no option, e.g. some programming has to be done in software only present in Windows. There were two options when one got their work computers from them: Apple or Dell. Aesthetically, Apple is a company that really pay attention to design (to be like a matching laptop for Prada), but I always got those powerful but super ugly and chunky Dell laptops. When the MacBook Air first came out, and one professor got it super quickly, he would show off his MacBook Air in his lecture repeating what was on the Ad by taking the MBA out of an envelope in front of all the undergrads, and announcing that he is holding the newly introduced MBA. I asked if he bought lots of Apple stock, but he said no. The other Apple fanboy professor is now high up in a NASA research division, perhaps he's as charismatic as Steve Jobs.
It is probably not always the case, but I think only shallow and simple people like to follow / can follow the Apple Cult. For example, I asked them what can one do with only 1 USB port? They always compromise (e.g. the price, the functionality) with the 'good' look, they adapt their lives around what they own instead of having the products to serve them. But they talk business and care less about optimizing things by themselves because they don't need to go into the universe of computer equipment to find better options.
For sure, some of the Apple designs despite the controversial functionality are still truly representative and MoMA-worthy.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 18 November 2016, 14:02:50
Well, they're the best keyboards APPLE made, that's for sure xD .Yeah, even I wouldn't object to taking AEKIIs apart xD .
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!"
Serial numbers on AEK go up to 1M, and there are a lot more AEK2s than that, so this is a species that is not threatened.
Almost everyone can tell from your videos that you're particularly critical towards Apple's products and Jobs' practices of making his products exclusive and incompatible to the other machines.
I have nothing that I want to defend them, but there're still lots of Apple fanboys and some shouting AEK or AEKII are "best keyboard ever made" (in the universe?).
Anyway, you're right, I disapprove of many of their practices. That said, it's not because of that that I think they're OK to scrap. They're good, but not exactly rare or exotic. I love the Dell Bigfoot, but you wouldn't believe how many crappy ones I've taken apart ;) .
I really love old Alps keyboards and will often defend them publicly from disassembly, but only cool, rare, interesting ones.
Post by: Anakey on Fri, 18 November 2016, 17:04:57
Well, they're the best keyboards APPLE made, that's for sure xD .Yeah, even I wouldn't object to taking AEKIIs apart xD .
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!"
Serial numbers on AEK go up to 1M, and there are a lot more AEK2s than that, so this is a species that is not threatened.
Almost everyone can tell from your videos that you're particularly critical towards Apple's products and Jobs' practices of making his products exclusive and incompatible to the other machines.
I have nothing that I want to defend them, but there're still lots of Apple fanboys and some shouting AEK or AEKII are "best keyboard ever made" (in the universe?).
Anyway, you're right, I disapprove of many of their practices. That said, it's not because of that that I think they're OK to scrap. They're good, but not exactly rare or exotic. I love the Dell Bigfoot, but you wouldn't believe how many crappy ones I've taken apart ;) .
I really love old Alps keyboards and will often defend them publicly from disassembly, but only cool, rare, interesting ones.
hopefully you wouldn't mind me harvesting the pine white alps from this then http://imgur.com/a/8Rbq8 I have not decided if i want to try and build the trackball into the handwired 75% that i will be using the switches for.
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 18 November 2016, 18:11:24
Vintage love among hobbyists seems to be: BS > Cherry >= Alps
People into the Cherry MX camp are mostly into trying out new things. There are cost cutting practices but by other companies, e.g. Kailh, and Cherry maintains its own standard. Gateron, Zealios and MOD came out partly due to cost cutting but more as attempts to perfect some advancements. Old boards except for some GMK builds are not as treasured but people are not so hungry for switches. They want to new ones, and the DIY mods widely available.
It's a very different picture in the Alps camp, enthusiasts are quite hungry for switches they want to get hold off. Vintage boards are treasured but they are also the only sources for 'good' switches. People behave like vampires when they look at a board - they are passionate about a vintage board but they also want to 'harm' it and permanently tear it apart for the 'perhaps delicious' essence to compose their flashy new portions.
Should we blame Matias? But Matias has no obligation to produce better switches or to produce any switches.
Alps practised cost cutting itself first by the 'pine' to 'bamboo' and other simplifications, and the feels of their switches were pretty much in decline along their development. There seemed to be companies who advancement in my eyes in Alps history, SMK as to Alps seemed like Gateron as to Cherry MX. However, SMK closed down as well, when everyone has become almost happy about the ubiquitous rubber-dome design.
Pretty much I can say, it's still at the dark age of Alps switches right now.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 18 November 2016, 18:41:50
Post by: drevyek on Fri, 18 November 2016, 19:01:08
Well, they're the best keyboards APPLE made, that's for sure xD .
Thems fightin' words :P
M0116 is sublime. It provides a full numpad, arrow keys (all in a row), a latching caps lock, and the Control key to the left of A.
Plus, Orange Alps. Positively dreamy.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 18 November 2016, 19:20:05
Post by: loud_asian on Fri, 18 November 2016, 19:27:03
My first Alps build. Donor board from aek2 for the switch and keycaps, plate from lasergist.
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!" :p
A nice build indeed.
What PCB are you using and what is the case?
My 60% build for Alps would ideally allow the SGI Granite set (space bar 6.25u?) and the AEK set (space bar 6.5u on your board?). However, I don't know how to do that.
There's a build log for hotswappable mod by E3E so I can think about having top row to have interchangeable HHKB and ANSI layout at the backspace location.
I believe that SGI granite uses a 7u spacebar
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 18 November 2016, 19:28:36
You are quite correct. It uses a normal winkeyless layout. The only real quirk with the SGI cap set is the stepped caps lock.My first Alps build. Donor board from aek2 for the switch and keycaps, plate from lasergist.
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!" :p
A nice build indeed.
What PCB are you using and what is the case?
My 60% build for Alps would ideally allow the SGI Granite set (space bar 6.25u?) and the AEK set (space bar 6.5u on your board?). However, I don't know how to do that.
There's a build log for hotswappable mod by E3E so I can think about having top row to have interchangeable HHKB and ANSI layout at the backspace location.
I believe that SGI granite uses a 7u spacebar
Post by: chyros on Fri, 18 November 2016, 20:58:13
Funny you should say that, I really like my M0116 to be honest. I was thinking of doing a video about it sometime near the end of the year. I agree the layout is quite workable, definitely better than TKL. But still, a fullsize... And the AEK could come with oranges, too, don't forget ;) .Well, they're the best keyboards APPLE made, that's for sure xD .
Thems fightin' words :P
M0116 is sublime. It provides a full numpad, arrow keys (all in a row), a latching caps lock, and the Control key to the left of A.
Plus, Orange Alps. Positively dreamy.
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 18 November 2016, 22:09:29
Funny you should say that, I really like my M0116 to be honest. I was thinking of doing a video about it sometime near the end of the year. I agree the layout is quite workable, definitely better than TKL. But still, a fullsize... And the AEK could come with oranges, too, don't forget ;) .Well, they're the best keyboards APPLE made, that's for sure xD .
Thems fightin' words :P
M0116 is sublime. It provides a full numpad, arrow keys (all in a row), a latching caps lock, and the Control key to the left of A.
Plus, Orange Alps. Positively dreamy.
I'm totally into control-key at the caps lock location next to pinky, just how things should look like: control next to pinky, meta next to thumbs.
But M0116 looks too weird, 4.75u space bar, and top row keys moved to the bottom row (tilde and backslash). This provides me a weird set of key caps and quite fewer switches to harvest if I have to harvest. I don't think I will like it enough to keep it. I'll go for Dell or AEKI/II.
Post by: drevyek on Fri, 18 November 2016, 22:21:19
Very true! I've been meaning to look at getting a AEK for the caps, as long as the profile matched the M0116's. If they had a stepped caps/control (1.75u), then I could throw them on my SGI board. Their profile is pretty neat for a "flat" layout- all of the alphas (the middle rows) are all the same profile, while the # row is raised up with an extended stem, while the bottom row flattens out. The angle of the contour is also very comparable to that of IBM's caps, standing them up next to each other, just a bit shorter. The face, however, is a bit broader. And, up top, there's the magic button! Such a nice set.Funny you should say that, I really like my M0116 to be honest. I was thinking of doing a video about it sometime near the end of the year. I agree the layout is quite workable, definitely better than TKL. But still, a fullsize... And the AEK could come with oranges, too, don't forget ;) .Well, they're the best keyboards APPLE made, that's for sure xD .
Thems fightin' words :P
M0116 is sublime. It provides a full numpad, arrow keys (all in a row), a latching caps lock, and the Control key to the left of A.
Plus, Orange Alps. Positively dreamy.
The bottom row is really neat, especially if you convert it with TMK or something similar. I remapped the two keys to the left and right of the spacebar (\| and ~`) to a function layer when held, allowing me to use pgup/pgdn on the arrow keys. If you're a vim user (like me), then it's great for the pseudo-hjkl arrangement. I wish other layouts offered the 5x1u bottom row more often. I've seen it on Northgate keyboards and a few others, but most people with modern keyboards trying to do the same thing often go for replacing /? in favour of the up arrow, which is just messy.
Typing this, I actually just swapped my apple caps onto the SGI board, excluding the modifiers (they're non-standard size, like the AEKII's 0.25u shortened right mods), and they're really quite different. The profile is much more forward than the SGI's OEM profile, which is angled up. The Apple profile is very much like the OEM QWERTY row. The feeling of the plastic is also a bit different. The apple caps feel more close to ABS- not sticky, but smoother. The SGI caps are much more textured.
The M0116 is the board that got me into Alps.
Post by: Jumie on Sat, 19 November 2016, 05:34:11
My first Alps build. Donor board from aek2 for the switch and keycaps, plate from lasergist.
I want to click the link "Reply to moderator", and say, "a forum member murdered yet another vintage Alps board!" :p
A nice build indeed.
What PCB are you using and what is the case?
My 60% build for Alps would ideally allow the SGI Granite set (space bar 6.25u?) and the AEK set (space bar 6.5u on your board?). However, I don't know how to do that.
There's a build log for hotswappable mod by E3E so I can think about having top row to have interchangeable HHKB and ANSI layout at the backspace location.
:p pcb from hasu, case is hammer wannabe replica from taobao..
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 19 November 2016, 08:05:37
Post by: chyros on Sat, 19 November 2016, 08:37:25
Could someone please explain the difference(s) between "pine" and "bamboo" Alps switches? I know about the slits and longer tabs in the top switch housing of pine switches, but are there other differences as well?There can be, but that's not what pine and bamboo refer to; they refer only to the slits.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 08:38:52
Could someone please explain the difference(s) between "pine" and "bamboo" Alps switches? I know about the slits and longer tabs in the top switch housing of pine switches, but are there other differences as well?During the transition, I suspect there was a change in the material used. Not sure about the validity of that, but there is definitely a difference.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 19 November 2016, 09:06:10
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 09:47:20
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 10:22:52
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 11:26:06
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 11:51:24
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/H2LCx2J.jpg?1)
WHAT THE ...???!!!
You're going to destroy all of them today? Although I'm not a full size keyboard person, but I still want to pay my respects to these nice poor vintage.
What's inside the two NeXT?
I'm looking for some cream dampened by the way. I'd rather dismantle a yellowed ADB Apple keyboard if I have choose where to harvest them from.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 11:52:03
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 11:52:38
The NeXts have SKCM cream, the best alps switch ever imoShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/H2LCx2J.jpg?1)
WHAT THE ...???!!!
You're going to destroy all of them today? Although I'm not a full size keyboard person, but I still want to pay my respects to these nice poor vintage.
What's inside the two NeXT?
I'm looking for some cream dampened by the way. I'd rather dismantle a yellowed ADB Apple keyboard if I have choose where to harvest them from.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 11:56:01
Could someone please explain the difference(s) between "pine" and "bamboo" Alps switches? I know about the slits and longer tabs in the top switch housing of pine switches, but are there other differences as well?
I have a similar question:
Are the base housing of all Alps SKCL and Alps SKCM switches the same? How about Matias's switches' base housing, are they also compatible / the same in terms of the structure?
Because it may save me some work of doing the tedious hot-swappable PCB mod, if I can effectively just pop and swap the top housing + everything inside.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:02:06
Docutech envy :). Where did caps form that SGI end up?
sold the caps. everything here is going to be desoldered today
I actually have some blues on their way to me, do you just want the blues from the Docutech?
Your post will be a strictly forbidden post on DT :p with all the Europeans who treasure the heritage and history. Sadly, I don't run a keyboard museum.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:04:30
Docutechs dont use SKCM blues, they use SKCM greens. There is no real point to keeping docutechs together, there is no way to convert them, the protocol hasnt been deciphered yet. I dont see the problem with desoldering vintage boards.Docutech envy :). Where did caps form that SGI end up?
sold the caps. everything here is going to be desoldered today
I actually have some blues on their way to me, do you just want the blues from the Docutech?
Your post will be a strictly forbidden post on DT :p with all the Europeans who treasure the heritage and history. Sadly, I don't run a keyboard museum.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:09:38
The NeXts have SKCM cream, the best alps switch ever imo
They are good indeed. SKCM Blue, SKCM Cream and SKCL Striped Amber are the best 3 Alps switches ever from all the switch types.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:12:24
Docutechs dont use SKCM blues, they use SKCM greens. There is no real point to keeping docutechs together, there is no way to convert them, the protocol hasnt been deciphered yet. I dont see the problem with desoldering vintage boards.Docutech envy :). Where did caps form that SGI end up?
sold the caps. everything here is going to be desoldered today
I actually have some blues on their way to me, do you just want the blues from the Docutech?
Your post will be a strictly forbidden post on DT :p with all the Europeans who treasure the heritage and history. Sadly, I don't run a keyboard museum.
The modern Chinese are very similar to the American, doing it even to a much larger scale, scrapping and dismantle everything just for the metal.
I see the problem of Moore's law of computer products, and programmed or planned obsolescence in the computing equipment industries. Obviously the input devices can be reused, only the memory and CPU / GPA and connectivity options need to be upgraded, and the display when significant improvement in technology is there. Computing equipment industries nowadays are not investing so much in the input devices but more to the look, and and many of these older input devices are built to last, not one of those pop bottles or plastic bags.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:14:09
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:15:37
<snip>And the Italic font!
<snip>
... The only real quirk with the SGI cap set is the stepped caps lock.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:20:56
I actually quite like the italic font. Its a subjective thing I think.<snip>And the Italic font!
<snip>
... The only real quirk with the SGI cap set is the stepped caps lock.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:22:22
You're destroying the Docutech too? E3E kinda set up a nature preserve for those where they can roam free lol. What are you going to do with the caps/switches?The NeXts have SKCM cream, the best alps switch ever imo
They are good indeed. SKCM Blue, SKCM Cream and SKCL Striped Amber are the best 3 Alps switches ever from all the switch types.
I wonder if the 'cushion' feel of Striped Amber can be achieved by some spring mod on some other more common linear Alps.
The cushion feel is also what I like about heavier MX linear switches such as lubed Gateron black.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:24:45
yeah the board is ISO so whatever. saving the switches for now just desoldering since i have time for once. also it's missing a foot on the case which is also yellowed and beat
Yeah, if mine's cases were beat up past a certain point or had a broken part, I wouldn't hesitate scrapping them. Fortunately/unfortunately, they don't.
Also, the protocol isn't completely alien. It's been worked out on bitsavers. It's just that a converter hasn't been made for it yet. I'm hoping Wingpad can help with that, and if THAT doesn't work out, then I'll talk to Hasu about a converter.
I'd also include SKCM Green and Brown as top tier tactile switches. It's just that they are more sensitive than others when it comes to plate/case rigidity.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:30:30
yeah the board is ISO so whatever. saving the switches for now just desoldering since i have time for once. also it's missing a foot on the case which is also yellowed and beat
Yeah, if mine's cases were beat up past a certain point or had a broken part, I wouldn't hesitate scrapping them. Fortunately/unfortunately, they don't.
Also, the protocol isn't completely alien. It's been worked out on bitsavers. It's just that a converter hasn't been made for it yet. I'm hoping Wingpad can help with that, and if THAT doesn't work out, then I'll talk to Hasu about a converter.
I think we need to have some keyboard museums to let these boards roam free.
Perhaps GH in the North America (GH West and GH East) and perhaps one by DT in Europe, perhaps one in south Asia like Malaysia and one in East Asia. There are keyboard and keycap companies (SP, Cherry, GMK, etc), and I won't if they can symbolically rent a room for such purpose, so that it becomes a common asset for forum members, not a private collection.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 19 November 2016, 12:54:25
@menuhin: Great idea about keyboard museums with support provided by keyboard and keycap companies. There might be foundations and other tech companies that could be approached as well.
Back to the pine/bamboo thing. Today I took a closer look at the switches in my Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards with white Alps switches. One has a noticeably nicer sound and feel than the other and is generally quieter. It turns out that my favorite one has pine switches (with slits in the top switch housings) and the less-favored one has bamboo switches (without slits in the top switch housings). It really does make a difference! Nevertheless, they are each great keyboards -- it is just that the pine version is at a higher level. Indeed, I would say that the pine Northgate is even nicer to type on than my Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 13:03:28
But a community shared museum with possibility of loaning keyboards to try out would be even better.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 19 November 2016, 13:50:32
watDocutech envy :). Where did caps form that SGI end up?
sold the caps. everything here is going to be desoldered today
Back to the pine/bamboo thing. Today I took a closer look at the switches in my Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards with white Alps switches. One has a noticeably nicer sound and feel than the other and is generally quieter. It turns out that my favorite one has pine switches (with slits in the top switch housings) and the less-favored one has bamboo switches (without slits in the top switch housings). It really does make a difference!Yes, it's really quite significant, isn't it? There's quite a few myths floating around the community, but that one is definitely not one of them. I'm not sure it's actually due to the slits themselves, but at the least they are a good indicator of something else being different.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 14:10:54
Post by: drevyek on Sat, 19 November 2016, 14:48:00
The bases of SKCM Damped Creams are different. The little blocks on the bottom if the inside of the switch, where the sliders contact when it bottoms out, is a bit widened.Could someone please explain the difference(s) between "pine" and "bamboo" Alps switches? I know about the slits and longer tabs in the top switch housing of pine switches, but are there other differences as well?
I have a similar question:
Are the base housing of all Alps SKCL and Alps SKCM switches the same? How about Matias's switches' base housing, are they also compatible / the same in terms of the structure?
Because it may save me some work of doing the tedious hot-swappable PCB mod, if I can effectively just pop and swap the top housing + everything inside.
Additionally, all short switchplate switch have little legs for the short switchplate to stand on. Without them, the switchplate would slip down into the switch.
So you have 3 different cases: Damped Creams, Short switchplate, and Long switchplate. As far as I can tell, the top cases only vary based on the pine/bamboo slits.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:01:52
The bases of SKCM Damped Creams are different. The little blocks on the bottom if the inside of the switch, where the sliders contact when it bottoms out, is a bit widened.Could someone please explain the difference(s) between "pine" and "bamboo" Alps switches? I know about the slits and longer tabs in the top switch housing of pine switches, but are there other differences as well?
I have a similar question:
Are the base housing of all Alps SKCL and Alps SKCM switches the same? How about Matias's switches' base housing, are they also compatible / the same in terms of the structure?
Because it may save me some work of doing the tedious hot-swappable PCB mod, if I can effectively just pop and swap the top housing + everything inside.
Additionally, all short switchplate switch have little legs for the short switchplate to stand on. Without them, the switchplate would slip down into the switch.
So you have 3 different cases: Damped Creams, Short switchplate, and Long switchplate. As far as I can tell, the top cases only vary based on the pine/bamboo slits.
Are base cases of cream dampened and white dampened the same?
What's "simplified" in the later Alps designs then? Mainly without the slits?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:07:11
The NeXT form factor is very much to my liking and the layout lends itself to a HHKB remapping. The only slight drawback is the case material, which is something of a smudge and fingerprint display.
I would also like to give the NeXT board a detachable cable. I am not sure if the case will accommodate putting the present design of the Hasu converter inside, but the internal wiring could bypass the connector and go directly to the converter board.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:11:41
Just now checked my non-ADB NeXT board with undamped creams. Looks like it has the pine (with slits) top switch case -- another reason why I rather like this board.All SKCM Cream switches will have pine switch tops as they are a first gen switch. They were phased out by SKCM blacks before the changeover, hence the presence of Pine blacks in the NeXt boards.
The NeXT form factor is very much to my liking and the layout lends itself to a HHKB remapping. The only slight drawback is the case material, which is something of a smudge and fingerprint display.
I would also like to give the NeXT board a detachable cable. I am not sure if the case will accommodate putting the present design of the Hasu converter inside, but the internal wiring could bypass the connector and go directly to the converter board.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:21:56
In the case of cream dampened and white dampened the switch bottom housings should be the same. As for simplified alps switches, The switchplates are different. Instead of the normal one piece switchplate we all know and love, the simplified switches have 2 cheap copper contacts. Matias uses the simplified design, hat is why it is not as good as OG alps. Simplified bottom and top housings are differed due to the change in switchplate design.The bases of SKCM Damped Creams are different. The little blocks on the bottom if the inside of the switch, where the sliders contact when it bottoms out, is a bit widened.Could someone please explain the difference(s) between "pine" and "bamboo" Alps switches? I know about the slits and longer tabs in the top switch housing of pine switches, but are there other differences as well?
I have a similar question:
Are the base housing of all Alps SKCL and Alps SKCM switches the same? How about Matias's switches' base housing, are they also compatible / the same in terms of the structure?
Because it may save me some work of doing the tedious hot-swappable PCB mod, if I can effectively just pop and swap the top housing + everything inside.
Additionally, all short switchplate switch have little legs for the short switchplate to stand on. Without them, the switchplate would slip down into the switch.
So you have 3 different cases: Damped Creams, Short switchplate, and Long switchplate. As far as I can tell, the top cases only vary based on the pine/bamboo slits.
Are base cases of cream dampened and white dampened the same?
What's "simplified" in the later Alps designs then? Mainly without the slits?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:23:27
"SKCM Cream" seems to cry out for a contraction of the name to SKCream or simply Scream. Ironic, given that they are neither loud nor inherently fast. I'll have to check my typing speed on Screams vs. other switches ....
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:25:48
Thanks for the explanation. When I first dived into the Alps pool, I had no idea that the waters ran so deep. The evolution of Alps is intricate and fascinating.I dont particularly like the name SKCM cream, as when I am trying to
"SKCM Cream" seems to cry out for a contraction of the name to SKCream or simply Scream. Ironic, given that they are neither loud nor inherently fast. I'll have to check my typing speed on Screams vs. other switches ....
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:38:52
...and what about damped creams? Dreams perhaps? or maybe just muffled screams. ;)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 15:49:07
Scream it is!That's really a great name
Post by: digi on Sat, 19 November 2016, 16:26:36
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 16:41:29
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 19 November 2016, 17:48:47
every pin is bent
Sucks big time.
I have had at least 2 Dell AT101Ws and a Northgate 101 like that.
Half a dozen is plenty, at most! (4 corners + 2 central)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 18:02:26
the alps gods must be trying to talk. every pin is bent on the docutech. gonna be good tims desoldering it.They're are sending a message, dont desolder, dont desolder!
I hate bent pins. My way is to use a solder sucker first to remove most of the solder, then use some braided copper to try to remove as much solder as possible from the sides of the pin. Then heat the pin from one side with the iron and bend it up with a small flathead screwdriver on the otherside.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 18:28:58
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 18:43:54
The alpha's will be Amber while the rest will be Blue's. This makes the Focus unique since before I had no reason to use it since I have my SKCM Blue Packard. Great use for it :)
Post by: digi on Sat, 19 November 2016, 18:46:20
Bought 61 SKCM Amber's from Digi. Gonna make a Amber/Blue Alps Focus FK-3001 masterpiece!
The alpha's will be Amber while the rest will be Blue's. This makes the Focus unique since before I had no reason to use it since I have my SKCM Blue Packard. Great use for it :)
Wow, that sounds amazing....on 2nd thought...not sure I'm ready to let these go (j/k) :D
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 19:00:43
Bought 61 SKCM Amber's from Digi. Gonna make a Amber/Blue Alps Focus FK-3001 masterpiece!Sounds like a cool board!
The alpha's will be Amber while the rest will be Blue's. This makes the Focus unique since before I had no reason to use it since I have my SKCM Blue Packard. Great use for it :)
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 19:48:40
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 20:20:48
Sounds like a cool board!Thanks, it will be. I know E3E doesn't like Amber's but in the Focus I think they will be great switch. Blue's are good choice to complement it also.
for a second i thought you meant digikey :-\ :confused:Lol you thought I bought some NOS Amber's? Lol.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 19 November 2016, 21:25:23
(http://i.imgur.com/nnXMcnI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RfV7XmP.jpg)
Dressed my Mira up with a mix and match of a few sets today. All this after a lot of hard work cutting some 60% plates out of AEK plates for someone in trade for the the One Per Desk caps you see on this board.
Well-earned I think, haha. Brutal.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 21:43:13
Great looking board. Matches well.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 19 November 2016, 22:02:53
I see that mix of Taihao and NeXT in there :p
Great looking board. Matches well.
Haha, you got it! It was a bit tricky to figure what would match the One Per Desk caps well, since they have no real usable mods. Black blends in perfectly with the dark brown mods. I really like it.
I was originally planning to use the C. Itoh PBT sphericals for the Mira, but I think the Retro look of these caps fit it too well.
(http://i.imgur.com/UqZGKVy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SKzSG01.jpg)
I only have these spares from XMIT at the moment as I'm waiting for my full board to come in, but I think they look really really good on a black board, so I might ultimately put them on my Orion. Not sure though. Really, those low profile chinese caps are the best fit, especially ergonomically.
I don't know if these PBT caps will go better on the Mira, but they definitely aren't as colorful.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 22:53:08
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122225618304
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 23:11:04
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/59xkg6/the_whole_industry_in_shambles_cause_i_paid_8/
Post by: E3E on Sat, 19 November 2016, 23:12:24
SKCM Orange Apple IIC?!!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122225618304
A2S4500 isn't a model number I'm familiar with when it comes to SKCM Amber, so I can believe it. Probably a later model.
I have seen people mention having SKCM Oranges in their IIcs, but with how casually of a manner in which they described it, I just assumed they mistook SKCM Ambers for SKCM Orange.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 19 November 2016, 23:13:00
Also found this newish reddit thread (22 days old). Guess they did have more NOS SKCM Green Chyros, but this guy paid $8 per switch (59*8=$472) :eek: Saw your comment's in that thread btw E3E. That dude is absolutely insane. That's tops those sky high prices of SKCM Blue boards from a couple months ago by plenty! Wayy off the deep end.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/59xkg6/the_whole_industry_in_shambles_cause_i_paid_8/
I need to look out for DocuTech poachers at that price point, hahaha.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 19 November 2016, 23:17:34
SKCM Orange Apple IIC?!!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122225618304
Info on the IIC from DT (https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/convert-apple-iic-to-usb-t7256.html#p144313),
Quote from: bhtooefr
Apple Hairpin Spring switches were used from April 1984 to August 1986 (in //cs with model number A2S4000, ROM revisions 255 and 0 (although newer ROMs can go in those)).
Alps SKCM taxi yellow switches were used from September 1986 to August 1988 (in //cs with model number A2S4100, ROM revisions 3 and 4).
Alps SKCM orange switches were used from (on the IIc line anyway, Apple certainly used them elsewhere, dating as far back to the IIGS in September 1986) September 1988 to September 1990, on the IIc Plus, model A2S4500, ROM revision 5.
Sources: http://apple2history.org/history/ah08/ and http://apple2history.org/history/ah09/ although the comments on keyswitches are from memory. (The switch to the Alps keyboard was required by the Memory Expansion system, which needed a plate mount switch to get the keyboard rigidity without compromising on clearance to the motherboard.)
Apple seemed to have used oranges on the later models.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 23:27:11
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 19 November 2016, 23:45:26
Interesting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them. Blue's are probably a fluke though since it was a replacement board and Alps likely ran out of Amber's for that batch.
I have seen a few A2S4000s with Amber alps, but didn't know any came with blues considering Apple never used them anywhere else in their lineup.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 23:59:16
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 00:07:24
Here you go: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71488.0Interesting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them. Blue's are probably a fluke though since it was a replacement board and Alps likely ran out of Amber's for that batch.
I have seen a few A2S4000s with Amber alps, but didn't know any came with blues considering Apple never used them anywhere else in their lineup.
Those also have top logos like the Packard Bell T9's do, so it makes sense that there late in the production run.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 20 November 2016, 00:26:37
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 20 November 2016, 00:36:22
Here you go: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71488.0Interesting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them. Blue's are probably a fluke though since it was a replacement board and Alps likely ran out of Amber's for that batch.
I have seen a few A2S4000s with Amber alps, but didn't know any came with blues considering Apple never used them anywhere else in their lineup.
Those also have top logos like the Packard Bell T9's do, so it makes sense that there late in the production run.
Just checked and my NOS blues don't have logos (http://i.imgur.com/0IxwhzL.jpg). The board is still not working, but the PCB date is late 1987.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 00:40:28
Post by: E3E on Sun, 20 November 2016, 01:01:51
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 05:09:12
Bought 61 SKCM Amber's from Digi. Gonna make a Amber/Blue Alps Focus FK-3001 masterpiece!
The alpha's will be Amber while the rest will be Blue's.
That should make for an interesting board. I thought about making variable weight clicky alps board before I tried ambers, but there is quite a difference between character of blues and ambers that I decided against it, and just put a single amber switch in a space bar position.
for a second i thought you meant digikey :-\ :confused:
Me too ;D
Interesting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them.
Orange's come in IIc+, which bears model number A2S4500. Not that layout on it is different than in earlier models, and matches IIgs or m0116, only without numpad.
It's the one I'm missing to complete my apples+oranges collection, but it's much more rare than regular IIc plus and also much more expensive. There's always something to want in Alps land :)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 20 November 2016, 12:00:40
Bought 61 SKCM Amber's from Digi. Gonna make a Amber/Blue Alps Focus FK-3001 masterpiece!
The alpha's will be Amber while the rest will be Blue's.
That should make for an interesting board. I thought about making variable weight clicky alps board before I tried ambers, but there is quite a difference between character of blues and ambers that I decided against it, and just put a single amber switch in a space bar position.for a second i thought you meant digikey :-\ :confused:
Me too ;DInteresting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them.
Orange's come in IIc+, which bears model number A2S4500. Not that layout on it is different than in earlier models, and matches IIgs or m0116, only without numpad.
It's the one I'm missing to complete my apples+oranges collection, but it's much more rare than regular IIc plus and also much more expensive. There's always something to want in Alps land :)
When it comes to doing something variable weighted with clicky switches, I'd suggest using different springs over entirely different switches unless you're using linears.
Also yeah, getting one of the IIc+ models just for their switches would be horribly inefficient. :P For the sake of collection though, I understand that.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 12:15:26
Also E3E my switches are coming to you on monday :) Seems faster than usual. Ultrasonic ftw.
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 12:17:56
I don't have enough Amber's to fill the whole board so Blue's are the next best thing
Aw yeah, let's get the Amber hype rolling! Again :)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 20 November 2016, 12:28:20
It was more that I don't have enough Amber's to fill the whole board so Blue's are the next best thing, rather than trying to be variable weight.
Also E3E my switches are coming to you on monday :) Seems faster than usual. Ultrasonic ftw.
Looking forward to it! It's actually pretty amazing how well it works. I cleaned up a batch of switch tops that were sticky and had binding issues and they felt great after a cleaning in the ultra sonic cleaner. :)
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 15:54:59
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 20 November 2016, 19:38:03
desoldered the Docutech. Sending it off to someone to help make a converter :thumb:
Good guy Alienman, everyone thought you were committing blasphemy, but I believed in you. Can someone make me a converter lol
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 22:14:09
(http://i.imgur.com/oSPKwUV.jpg)
Also does anyone have any extra Focus caps laying around? A couple of my caps are really worn smooth.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 22:17:57
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 22:36:17
I have a set, its sorta yellowed though. Itll probably match your case.Not sure how cool you are with splitting up the set but I only need arrow keys, A, K, F, D, J and R. The rest of the key's have a normal amount of wear.
I would retrobright them like I did to mine :)
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 22:39:00
its fine with me, I already sold the numpad from that set. I dont need it anywayI have a set, its sorta yellowed though. Itll probably match your case.Not sure how cool you are with splitting up the set but I only need arrow keys, A, K, F, D, J and R. The rest of the key's have a normal amount of wear.
I would retrobright them like I did to mine :)
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 20 November 2016, 23:24:24
Also does anyone have any extra Focus caps laying around? A couple of my caps are really worn smooth.
There's a set on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALPS-COMPLETE-FULL-SET-KEYCAPS-FOR-ALPS-STYLE-KEYBOARD-20-00-SHIPPING-/322327240302
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 21 November 2016, 09:06:04
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 21 November 2016, 10:20:57
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 21 November 2016, 14:31:59
@HPE1000: Which route you take depends upon where you are trying to go. What do you hope to achieve by swapping switches or switch parts on your V60? Are you starting with Matias Click switches in the V60? What Alps options do you have for the swappable parts in the Matias switches (slider, click/tactile leaf, return spring)?I've got an entire set of green skcl alps and I was wanting to put them into the v60 without desoldering if possible,but I didn't realize the difference just swapping the spring and slider from the skcl into the matias click switch body would have. I'll have to test this difference a bit more to decide which I prefer.
The green sliders in the clear housing sure looks cool though
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 21 November 2016, 14:59:59
Code: [Select]
Switch Type Source
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A (Actuation) B (Actuation) C (Bottom-out)
---------------------------------------------
Amber SKCL 87.5 - 90
Amber SKCL Striped 55 55
Black SKCM 69 65
Blue SKCL 55
Blue SKCM 70 65 - 72
Brown SKCL 70
Brown SKCM 75
Cream SKCL 70 70
Cream SKCM 70
Cream SKCM Damped 69
Green SKCL 50 50 50
Green SKCL Spacebar 80
Green SKCL LED 67.5
Green SKCM 69
Grey SKCL 88
Orange SKCM 60
Pink/Salmon SKCM 65 - 70
White SKCM 69 65 65
White damped SKCM 60 60
Yellow SKCL 59 60=====Sources:
A = DT Wiki on SKCL/SKCM Alps series. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
B = Reddit Keyboard Stiffness Database. https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/ripometer
C = DT thread, Alps Appreciation, E3E results. https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/alps-appreciation-t12915-1080.html
=====
@HPE1000: As you probably know, SKCL Green Alps are relatively light switches with actuation and bottom-out forces of about 50g compared to 60g actuation for Matias Click switches. So, the Green return spring should lighten the switch, but the friction from the click leaf in the Matias switch will contribute to the weight of the switch.
I have found that it is much trickier to put the Matias tops back on the switches than it is to put Alps tops back onto Alps switches. This is because of the rather delicate contact leaf in the Matias switch compared to the more robust switchplate mechanism in SKCM or SKCL Alps switches.
Recently, I have been experimenting with swapping parts into SKCM White Alps switches. This was prompted by noticing that two of my Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards with SKCM white Alps switches had noticeably different sound and feel from each other.
It turns out that one of Omnikeys has white SKCM pine switches (with slits in the top housing), while the other has white SKCM bamboo switches (without slits). I have some Orange SKCM switches, which have the pine (with slits) housings. After trying various combinations of sliders, springs, click/tactile leaves, and top housings, I concluded that the major contributor to the different (and I think better) sound and feel of the pine switches arises from the housing.
However, of course you get a very different sensation by putting an Orange tactile leaf into a White switch, and the lighter Orange spring in a White switches produces a lighter switch, but keeping the click leaf and spring constant, the housing is what really makes the difference in sound and feel.
Unfortunately, you cannot put an SKCM top housing onto a Matias bottom switch -- all you can do is swap out the slider, spring, or click leaf. Even so, you can get a very different sound and feel in a Matias switch by playing around with these swappable components. For example, I made a "Matiblu" switch by putting the spring, slider, and click leaf from a Blue Alps into a Matias Click switch. The result is a quieter and lighter switch. It's not a Blue Alps, but I think it is nicer than a Matias Click.
When you do the Green/Matias hybrids in your V60, it would be great if you could post some before/after recordings.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 00:41:14
Oops.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 00:48:48
Looks like winter came at a bad time. Good thing about California is that there's bound to be a sunny day no matter the season. Ran out of that creme stuff too.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 22 November 2016, 09:13:57
Recently, I acquired a Northgate Omnikey 101 (ANSI) in pristine condition. However, while testing it, I was surprised to find that the sound and feel of this keyboard were not as good as other keyboards of the same make and model. Upon closer inspection, I realized that the pristine keyboard had the newer "Bamboo" switches (without slits in the upper switch housing), whereas the boards with better sound and feel had the older "Pine" switches (with slits in the upper switch housing).
Here is an illustration of the two types of switches (from the DT wiki):
[attach=1]
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
I've done some experiments swapping components from different type of switches into Bamboo white Alps. I have some Orange Alps switches that have the Pine tops. After trying various combinations of sliders, springs, tactile/click leaves, and top housings, I found that for a given spring and tactile/click leaf, the main contributor to the sound and feel of the switch was the top housing. It would be possible to swap the housings with those from Orange switches, but depending on price and availability, it might be cheaper and easier to start with a keyboard in good to excellent condition that already had Pine switches.
Here are some S/N data on Northgate Omnikey 101 US ANSI White Alps keyboards, with an indication of whether the white Alps switches are Pine (with slits) or Bamboo (without slits):
1081779 – Pine (Slits)
1128676 – Pine (Slits)
1132628 – Pine (Slits)
1155854 – Bamboo (No Slits)
1160507 – Bamboo (No Slits)
The lower S/N numbers (presumably with an earlier date of manufacture) have the more desirable Pine switches. It appears that the transition occurred somewhere between 1132628 and 1155854, but certainly keyboards with serial numbers below 1132628 should have Pine switches.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 09:17:55
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 22 November 2016, 09:26:35
This information should be helpful to those buying this particular make and model keyboard who would like to ensure that it has the Pine variety of SKCM white Alps switches.
It is usually easier to read serial numbers in eBay pics than to see the presence or absence of slits in the switch housings!
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 09:40:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 18:18:17
Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 22 November 2016, 19:01:32
Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight :(
Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.
Could've sent those to me too! I've got a pretty good indoor setup. :P
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 19:04:20
Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight :(
Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.
Could've sent those to me too! I've got a pretty good indoor setup. :P
Lol. Just started too late in the day. I'll do it sometime this week or next week.
How are the switches going?
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 19:09:32
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 19:22:44
Pine vs. Bamboo SKCM White Alps Switches in Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI Keyboards -- S/N Correlation:
Here are some S/N data on Northgate Omnikey 101 US ANSI White Alps keyboards, with an indication of whether the white Alps switches are Pine (with slits) or Bamboo (without slits):
1081779 – Pine (Slits)
1128676 – Pine (Slits)
1132628 – Pine (Slits)
1155854 – Bamboo (No Slits)
1160507 – Bamboo (No Slits)
The lower S/N numbers (presumably with an earlier date of manufacture) have the more desirable Pine switches. It appears that the transition occurred somewhere between 1132628 and 1155854, but certainly keyboards with serial numbers below 1132628 should have Pine switches.
You can add two more S/Ns, although they are somewhat low:
1004254 - Pine
1037413 - Pine
And unrelated to this, but does anyone have a 5140 PCB and plastic frame that they don't need? I'd like to put some lesser switches and keycaps in to make the machine usable again.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 22 November 2016, 19:36:10
Post by: chyros on Tue, 22 November 2016, 20:08:38
Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight :(Lol, I'm guessing that makes it impossible to retrobright anything in the UK xD .
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 23 November 2016, 12:04:58
Therefore, I've decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).
Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.
However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:
[attachimg=1]
I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).
The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.
This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.
I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 23 November 2016, 13:16:48
Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight :(Lol, I'm guessing that makes it impossible to retrobright anything in the UK xD .
https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/1949533/girl-21-admits-to-spending-35000-on-fake-tan-which-she-applies-for-four-and-a-half-hours-every-day/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/1949533/girl-21-admits-to-spending-35000-on-fake-tan-which-she-applies-for-four-and-a-half-hours-every-day/)
Or wait in front of the sun studio and ask someone to bring in that wrapped keyboard. By the way, don't know if UV A or UV B or UV C etc, or all of them would work.
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 23 November 2016, 13:30:10
One of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).
Therefore, I've decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).
Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.
However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:
(Attachment Link)
I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).
The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.
This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.
I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.
I am also curious to know if the difference in structure between the white pine and white bamboo is really only in the top housings, e.g. the bottom housings, switch plates etc are identical in structure, regardless of materials used.
It's a very simple yet sound experiment, reminds me of Archimedes and Galileo, I like it! :thumb:
(Not a physics or mechanics person)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 13:34:35
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 23 November 2016, 13:41:55
just bought an AEK I and M0116 as well as a b stock VEA. gonna get plates and we're good
Is it expensive and time consuming to do hot-swappable mod?
I've seen it's relatively easy to perform a hot-swap mod for Cherry MX, compared to the thousand-times-drilling-and-rewiring session of E3E.
For example, this one on Cherry PCB, no solder, no drilling needed, possibly quicker than soldering the switches on:
Or is it just that the best fitting hot-sockets for Alps switches have not been found yet?
Post by: E3E on Wed, 23 November 2016, 13:49:11
Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight :(
Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.
Could've sent those to me too! I've got a pretty good indoor setup. :P
Lol. Just started too late in the day. I'll do it sometime this week or next week.
How are the switches going?
Haven't gotten to them just yet! Trying to get some things out of the way, but I should have them all cleaned up soon for ya. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 14:44:14
Second times a charm? :p
(http://i.imgur.com/pDNeZ1r.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0z0kCy7.jpg)
Haven't gotten to them just yet! Trying to get some things out of the way, but I should have them all cleaned up soon for ya. :)
Cool.
Post by: drevyek on Wed, 23 November 2016, 15:05:39
So what do they look like when lubed? or is the lube only on the bottom of the slider, near the contact points of the leaf springs (ie, where the little black lube squares are on the slider)MoreOne of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).
Therefore, I've decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).
Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.
However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:
(Attachment Link)
I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).
The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.
This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.
I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.
If there really any difference between pine and bamboo tops other than the slits? The slits just serve to provide a bit of padding on the return stroke, no, so you'd expect the difference to be just in the return stroke.
Or is the opening any different? I think that Matias case tops have an expanded opening, but can't confirm.
Post by: Fictiouz on Wed, 23 November 2016, 15:07:22
So what do they look like when lubed? or is the lube only on the bottom of the slider, near the contact points of the leaf springs (ie, where the little black lube squares are on the slider)MoreOne of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).
Therefore, I've decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).
Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.
However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:
(Attachment Link)
I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).
The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.
This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.
I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.
If there really any difference between pine and bamboo tops other than the slits? The slits just serve to provide a bit of padding on the return stroke, no, so you'd expect the difference to be just in the return stroke.
Or is the opening any different? I think that Matias case tops have an expanded opening, but can't confirm.
Good question. I would love to know more as well.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 23 November 2016, 15:12:55
Got my SKCM Amber's today, have a new appreciation for them. They seem less bumpy and cleaner feeling than the one in my switch tester I got from E3E a while ago.Amber alps are great, not at all a bad thing but I find they are much more tactile than they are crisp. Really interested in seeing how those keycaps turn out after retro-brighting them.
Second times a charm? :pMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/pDNeZ1r.jpg)MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/0z0kCy7.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 16:10:13
Post by: E3E on Wed, 23 November 2016, 16:17:29
Got my SKCM Amber's today, have a new appreciation for them. They seem less bumpy and cleaner feeling than the one in my switch tester I got from E3E a while ago.
Second times a charm? :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/pDNeZ1r.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0z0kCy7.jpg)Haven't gotten to them just yet! Trying to get some things out of the way, but I should have them all cleaned up soon for ya. :)
Cool.
Wrapping your items to be retrobrighted in saran wrap isn't a good idea, man. I've read a lot of people who mention that causing streaking pretty easily. If the creme dries at all on the plastic, it tends to cause bleaching.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 16:28:30
Wrapping your items to be retrobrighted in saran wrap isn't a good idea, man. I've read a lot of people who mention that causing streaking pretty easily. If the creme dries at all on the plastic, it tends to cause bleaching.Interesting. That's how i've always done it.
I have seen some minor streaking in the past but it seems to fade within a few weeks. Never seen any bleaching. Every 30min or so ill go back out and smear the cream around so it doesn't dry.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 23 November 2016, 18:00:06
One of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).Hmmm, wouldn't this test negatively favour lubricated materials?
Therefore, I've decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).
Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.
However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:
(Attachment Link)
I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).
The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.
This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.
I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 18:40:06
Zenith:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZgYHc0I.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/24fQNju.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KM1rwZ4.jpg)
Multistation Caps:
(http://i.imgur.com/x5IyXl6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FIJkNQh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DGV8eN7.jpg)
The Tandem caps are almost there, they have a Salmon/Pink shade to them. Wayy better than at the start but not quite. Another day in the sun should do it.
Before:
(http://i.imgur.com/rs7UKol.jpg?1)
Current: (next to Focus cap)
(http://i.imgur.com/w4uJ9Wp.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 19:13:13
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 23 November 2016, 19:16:59
One of my goals has been to create a "poor man's Blue Alps board". I think I may have come quite close this time and possibly beyond. I reassembled my Omni 101 white Alps board by swapping out the switch housings, sliders, and springs from Orange Alps switches. I also lubed the slider guider rails and slider-click leaf interface with Superlube 51010 oil. The result is something that sounds and feels very much like a Blue Alps board and perhaps even better -- it is exquisite in the Northgate chassis.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 19:24:45
so would that enter key on the zenith be known as slim ass?
Chyros coined it as medium ass. Slim ass would be those found on the M0116, Z-150, NeXT non adb or the Tandem for instance. Some people also call those the 'L shaped' enter.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 23 November 2016, 19:46:12
@Chyros: Yes, indeed, the test I ran would "negatively favor" lubricated sliders. I should have made it clearer that I thoroughly removed the lubricant from the sliders before running the test.Ah, yeah, see, that's good. We already postulated that Alps switches to a slipperier plastic after their first-generation switches (presumably POM) to eliminate the need for lubricant. Your data would seem to corroborate this, so this is excellent.
Measuring actual smoothness is a bit hard though. Even with a force meter I don't think this is possible.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 23 November 2016, 20:38:46
@Chyros: Yes, indeed, the test I ran would "negatively favor" lubricated sliders. I should have made it clearer that I thoroughly removed the lubricant from the sliders before running the test.Ah, yeah, see, that's good. We already postulated that Alps switches to a slipperier plastic after their first-generation switches (presumably POM) to eliminate the need for lubricant. Your data would seem to corroborate this, so this is excellent.
Measuring actual smoothness is a bit hard though. Even with a force meter I don't think this is possible.
I'm sure others have tried this already, but I have tested the older sliders with acetone and they don't react to it at all. I wonder what plastic was used.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 22:03:45
Also anyone got any SKCM Amber? Figure it would be better to buy/trade my way to a (mostly) full Amber Focus rather than use SKCM Blue.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 23 November 2016, 22:23:23
Looks like the server's over at Deskthority are on fire.
Also anyone got any SKCM Amber? Figure it would be better to buy/trade my way to a (mostly) full Amber Focus rather than use SKCM Blue.
I may be able to get you about ten once I am done with one of my builds.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 23 November 2016, 22:25:40
Post by: y11971alex on Thu, 24 November 2016, 00:47:07
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 24 November 2016, 08:54:11
@Chyros: Yes, indeed, the test I ran would "negatively favor" lubricated sliders. I should have made it clearer that I thoroughly removed the lubricant from the sliders before running the test.Ah, yeah, see, that's good. We already postulated that Alps switches to a slipperier plastic after their first-generation switches (presumably POM) to eliminate the need for lubricant. Your data would seem to corroborate this, so this is excellent.
Measuring actual smoothness is a bit hard though. Even with a force meter I don't think this is possible.
I'm sure others have tried this already, but I have tested the older sliders with acetone and they don't react to it at all. I wonder what plastic was used.
If we were able to choose a polymer for keyboard switch sliders today, there are several excellent candidates, including nylon, teflon, Delrin, and ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene. Dupont makes some excellent low-friction plastics:
http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-resins/articles/low-friction-plastic.html
It would indeed be interesting to know which plastics were used in the first-generation Alps sliders and which ones are used currently in Alps and/or Matias sliders.
Polymers are getting better and better, increasingly replacing metals in various moving parts.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 24 November 2016, 09:36:44
One Alps employee I talked to did mention that the sliders were "probably nylon" but he couldn't remember for sure because it had been so long ago.@Chyros: Yes, indeed, the test I ran would "negatively favor" lubricated sliders. I should have made it clearer that I thoroughly removed the lubricant from the sliders before running the test.Ah, yeah, see, that's good. We already postulated that Alps switches to a slipperier plastic after their first-generation switches (presumably POM) to eliminate the need for lubricant. Your data would seem to corroborate this, so this is excellent.
Measuring actual smoothness is a bit hard though. Even with a force meter I don't think this is possible.
I'm sure others have tried this already, but I have tested the older sliders with acetone and they don't react to it at all. I wonder what plastic was used.
If we were able to choose a polymer for keyboard switch sliders today, there are several excellent candidates, including nylon, teflon, Delrin, and ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene. Dupont makes some excellent low-friction plastics:
http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-resins/articles/low-friction-plastic.html
It would indeed be interesting to know which plastics were used in the first-generation Alps sliders and which ones are used currently in Alps and/or Matias sliders.
Polymers are getting better and better, increasingly replacing metals in various moving parts.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 24 November 2016, 18:07:57
This White-Orange hybridization resulted in an improved sound and feel of the former Bamboo White Alps switches. The transformed board no longer has the rattly quality of Bamboo White Alps switches. It is quieter overall and a bit more like typing on Blue Alps.
For comparison, here is my Leading Edge DC-3014 with SKCM Blue Alps:
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
And here is a waveform from an audio recording of the following keystrokes: -09 poi lkj ,mn Backspace x 3 Enter x 3 Spacebar x3
[attach=3]
Here is my Omnikey 101 being transformed into a White-Orange hybrid:
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
And a waveform from an audio recording of the Omnikey 101 with White-Orange hybrid switches (same keystrokes as those recorded on the Blue Alps board):
[attach=7]
Finally, here is a video comparison:
Of course, I should have done a before and after comparison of the Omnikey 101, but true to my usual habit, I didn't think of doing any documentation until the transformation was well underway. Nevertheless, I can say that the keyboard sounds and feels better than it did before. However, I also changed too many variables at once, so I cannot say which one or which combination of changes did the trick. Suffice it to say that it is a delight to type on with a more solid sound and feel than the DC-3014 with Blue Alps.
Post by: PollandAkuma on Fri, 25 November 2016, 14:29:27
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 25 November 2016, 14:30:52
Post by: chyros on Fri, 25 November 2016, 15:25:07
Soooooo... I decided to get an old board with green alps, since I want to try linears, costing about $60... Is it worth it over cherry blacks?Whatever you do, make sure it's clean. If it is, then sure! It was green Alps that got me into linear switches :) .
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 25 November 2016, 15:44:39
What do folks here think of click-modding a Yellow Alps board? (Note that although the procedure is rather laborious, it is straightforward to reverse the mod -- no desoldering/resoldering required).
Post by: chyros on Fri, 25 November 2016, 16:29:55
I'm in the process of cleaning up a Zenith 163-73 with linear Yellow Alps switches. The layout is not my favorite, but it's not too bad. The oversized Right Bracket can be remapped as Backspace and the split Right Shift makes for an ideal location for a Fn key. The keycaps on this model are nice -- dye-subbed PBT.Yeah, why not? You'll have to switch the top housings though.
What do folks here think of click-modding a Yellow Alps board? (Note that although the procedure is rather laborious, it is straightforward to reverse the mod -- no desoldering/resoldering required).
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 25 November 2016, 16:58:24
mike52787 is kindly sending me some Pine White Alps switches, and I might use these for the click mod.
In the meantime, I tried out the mod on one of the Yellow Alps switches using a top housing from an Orange Alps switch and a click leaf from a Matias Click switch. I kept the slider and spring from the Yellow Alps, and of course the bottom housing and switchplate are retained. The result is very nice indeed.
BTW, as far as I can tell, the click leaves from a Matias Click and a SKCM White Alps are identical. Does anyone know of any differences?
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 25 November 2016, 18:36:45
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 25 November 2016, 18:41:45
You should be getting those tomorrow or monday :D
mike52787 is kindly sending me some Pine White Alps switches, and I might use these for the click mod.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 25 November 2016, 18:47:18
The lube on Orange and Blue sliders is dry, but when I sonicated the sliders, I got an "oil slick" on the surface of the water bath.So what do they look like when lubed? or is the lube only on the bottom of the slider, near the contact points of the leaf springs (ie, where the little black lube squares are on the slider)MoreOne of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).
Therefore, I've decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).
Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.
However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:
(Attachment Link)
I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).
The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.
This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.
I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.
If there really any difference between pine and bamboo tops other than the slits? The slits just serve to provide a bit of padding on the return stroke, no, so you'd expect the difference to be just in the return stroke.
Or is the opening any different? I think that Matias case tops have an expanded opening, but can't confirm.
The only visible difference between Pine and Bamboo switch tops is the slits, as far as I can tell. Yes, I think you are correct about the slits damping the return stroke.
Matias switch tops are incompatible with SKCM Alps -- the switch plate / contact leaf bits are entirely different between the two types of switches. However, the sliders and click / tactile leaves are compatible.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 26 November 2016, 04:02:31
I'm tired of the Krytox shortage problem in Europe, but wet lube should be irrelevant to Alps.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sat, 26 November 2016, 08:33:15
It's not unpleasant, just over the top and shockingly loud
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 26 November 2016, 08:34:40
Just went from using dampened white alps and cream alps in an SGI granite and AEK 2 respectively to an omnikey 101 (My second, it's in mostly perfect shape) with undampened white alps and i think i'm about to go deaf. Not even my MX blues assault my ears like this.If you dont like the loudness of white alps, never try capacitive buckling spring :p
It's not unpleasant, just over the top and shockingly loud
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 November 2016, 08:47:20
What are some of the common 'dry' lube in the market? I'm tired of the Krytox shortage problem in Europe.I have not yet tried any of the dry lubricants. A popular one is Dupont teflon non-stick dry-film lubricant, available from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Non-Stick-Dry-Film-Lubricant/dp/B018FTA5WA
It is a spray that dries to a powdery teflon-containing coating.
My own non-dry lubricant method is rather tedious but it works for me: I apply Superlube 51010 oil with a small paintbrush.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 26 November 2016, 09:26:05
Post by: E3E on Sat, 26 November 2016, 09:41:50
This post: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75785.msg1885894#msg1885894 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75785.msg1885894#msg1885894) and the Alps party post convinced me to try dry lube and totally forget about Krytox (if for my MX, I just have Gateron linear and Zealios).
Yep, nubbinator's post is what convinced me to try molybdenum disulfide powder for Alps. The stuff looks practically just like the dry lube found on Alps sliders. Not sure if a moly dry film grease would be better, but it already sticks quite well as a powder.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 November 2016, 09:57:37
Post by: E3E on Sat, 26 November 2016, 10:57:10
Has anyone here tried mixing a dry lube such as MoS2 with a solvent so that it could be applied evenly? The solvent would evaporate, leaving a film of the dry lube.
I was thinking of this, but I'm no chemist like you or Chyros seem to be (you at least seem to have a good knowledge of chemistry :P). What would be a good option for molybdenum disulfide?
Post by: chyros on Sat, 26 November 2016, 11:24:06
Thing is, I'm not sure that those tiny patches of greyish stuff at the base of the slider is the actual lubricant. I think it's the transparent stuff that the whole slider is coated in. So not "dry" lubricant, more like "dried" lubricant.Has anyone here tried mixing a dry lube such as MoS2 with a solvent so that it could be applied evenly? The solvent would evaporate, leaving a film of the dry lube.
I was thinking of this, but I'm no chemist like you or Chyros seem to be (you at least seem to have a good knowledge of chemistry :P). What would be a good option for molybdenum disulfide?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 November 2016, 11:31:03
I haven't worked with molybdenum disulfide, but I understand that it is a black powder that tends to stain everything it touches black. Have you found this to be the case?
The lubricant residue that I have seen on blue and orange Alps does not look black to me, but I have not experimented with molybdenum to see if a thin film looks black on an Alps slider.
After some Googling, I found that both molybdenum disulfide and PTFE ("Teflon") powder can be suspended in isopropyl alcohol for application to the parts to be lubricated. The alcohol evaporates leaving a thin film of the lubricant that tends to bond to the surface of the part.
I've ordered some PTFE powder to give the procedure a try.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 26 November 2016, 11:36:19
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 November 2016, 12:17:52
Post by: E3E on Sat, 26 November 2016, 12:50:57
I guess maybe my original feeling about those marks was more in the right direction. Hmm.
Overall though, I still feel that the switch top housing plays the largest part in the feel of the switch, including smoothness, over the slider. I guess the slider would be more important when it comes to feeling any friction in the downward and upward strokes, but the top definitely seems to cause the binding and stickiness issues when it's dirty. I find cleaning just the tops and just dusting the sliders off restores a lot of the feel of the switches.
Post by: tomboy on Sat, 26 November 2016, 15:16:45
My question is, are these switches supposed to feel super dry?
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 26 November 2016, 16:00:49
http://www.ebay.de/itm/361071499602?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/361071499602?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649)
@Tomboy
Many people like orange Alps.
What do you mean by "super dry"? Does it mean scratchy? Or rough?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 November 2016, 16:01:48
@tomboy: Could you elaborate on what you mean by the Orange Alps from an AEK feeling super dry? If you are experiencing a sensation of friction, i.e., a lack of smoothness, the switches might be dirty and could benefit from cleaning and possibly by lubrication as well.
Post by: tomboy on Sat, 26 November 2016, 16:21:58
@tomboy: Could you elaborate on what you mean by the Orange Alps from an AEK feeling super dry? If you are experiencing a sensation of friction, i.e., a lack of smoothness, the switches might be dirty and could benefit from cleaning and possibly by lubrication as well.
It's kinda hard to describe 'cause I don't have much experience with different switches. They feel a bit like mx clears until actuation but less smooth (not smooth at all), but maybe it's just because I was using gateron yellows for a long time now? I'll definitely clean them, if they are supposed to feel somewhat smooth :)
What kind of lube do you recommend? The only thing I have at hand is silicon lube used for twisty puzzles (https://thecubicle.us/cubicle-silicone-lube-c-35_64.html) would that work here as well?
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 26 November 2016, 16:42:49
Yup, sounds like a classic case of dirty alps. What condition was the board in that you took them out of? Dirty alps are never nice. Alps are very susceptible to dirt.@tomboy: Could you elaborate on what you mean by the Orange Alps from an AEK feeling super dry? If you are experiencing a sensation of friction, i.e., a lack of smoothness, the switches might be dirty and could benefit from cleaning and possibly by lubrication as well.
It's kinda hard to describe 'cause I don't have much experience with different switches. They feel a bit like mx clears until actuation but less smooth (not smooth at all), but maybe it's just because I was using gateron yellows for a long time now? I'll definitely clean them, if they are supposed to feel somewhat smooth :)
What kind of lube do you recommend? The only thing I have at hand is silicon lube used for twisty puzzles (https://thecubicle.us/cubicle-silicone-lube-c-35_64.html) would that work here as well?
Post by: tomboy on Sat, 26 November 2016, 17:10:38
Yup, sounds like a classic case of dirty alps. What condition was the board in that you took them out of? Dirty alps are never nice. Alps are very susceptible to dirt.@tomboy: Could you elaborate on what you mean by the Orange Alps from an AEK feeling super dry? If you are experiencing a sensation of friction, i.e., a lack of smoothness, the switches might be dirty and could benefit from cleaning and possibly by lubrication as well.
It's kinda hard to describe 'cause I don't have much experience with different switches. They feel a bit like mx clears until actuation but less smooth (not smooth at all), but maybe it's just because I was using gateron yellows for a long time now? I'll definitely clean them, if they are supposed to feel somewhat smooth :)
What kind of lube do you recommend? The only thing I have at hand is silicon lube used for twisty puzzles (https://thecubicle.us/cubicle-silicone-lube-c-35_64.html) would that work here as well?
The board wasn't built by me, so I have little to no idea (build log: http://imgur.com/account/favorites/sTV8q), I only changed the caps so far. It was it the mail for more than a month, that could have also contributed.
(http://i.imgur.com/8FqzNmN.jpg)
So disassembling the switches and cleaning them out with compressed air would be a good first step I presume?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 November 2016, 17:30:27
Good luck with cleaning and possibly lubing your Orange Alps.
Opinions vary widely over whether or not to lube and, if you lube, which lube to use. My own (current) preference is to clean the switch tops, springs, tactile leaves, and sliders in an ultrasonic cleaner, rinse with distilled water and/or 70% isopropyl alcohol, allow to dry completely, and lube the slider rails and tactile leaf side of the slider with Superlube 51010 oil applied sparingly with a small paintbrush.
Before reassembly, I blow out the bottom switch housings with canned air and visually inspect to be sure there is no visible dirt in the bottom of the switch. If any of the switches were unresponsive or exhibiting chatter, I clean the switchplate with a contact cleaner and allow the switch to dry completely before reassembly.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 26 November 2016, 17:54:26
@E3E: Regarding the top housings, I was amazed at how much of a difference these made when comparing Pine (with slits) vs. Bamboo (no slits) SKCM White Alps switches. When it comes to friction or smoothness, it is difficult to separate the effect of the slider from that of the top housing, because the friction is generated by interaction of the slider and the top housing, with some additional contribution by the tactile or click leaf rubbing against the slider.
Very true, very true. I've noticed immense improvement just from the top housings being swapped for newer ones and even from ultra sonic cleaned tops. I don't think I've encountered any sliders that have needed more than a blast of air to clean them off, but I'm sure that might simply be because I haven't encountered the worst of the worst yet.
Post by: Applet on Sun, 27 November 2016, 05:06:25
Post by: tomboy on Sun, 27 November 2016, 10:47:22
Thanks for all the good advice!
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 27 November 2016, 10:57:08
My idea is to do some hot-swap mod on their PCBs, e.g. SGI Granite or an Apple keyboard, say an AEK or AEKII. I'm still wondering how feasible such an idea is.
I've also read E3E's report on GH that the 60% infinity's PCB (not the Eagle PCB from Duck) fits the pins of Alps switches so snugly that soldering is plausibly not required. So, I hope to be optimistic.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 11:10:16
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 27 November 2016, 11:30:29
Today, I tried swapping out the tactile leaves and return springs on some of the SKCM Brown Alps switches in my 60% custom board. I love the solid feel of the Brown Alps, but I find them a bit too heavy for long-term use. I also thought I'd like to convert them from tactile to tactile+clicky.
It has been a while since I consulted the DT wiki on these switches, and I had forgotten about the unusual tactile leaf -- it is a two-piece construction that fits very snugly against the slider. It seems to be mainly the tight fit of the tactile leaf that gives Brown Alps their solid and heavy feel.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_Brown
I tried various combinations of Brown tactile leaf vs Matias Click leaf, Brown spring vs Matias Click spring vs White Alps spring vs custom 55g spring. There was something to like about each combination, but substituting the Brown tactile leaf with a Matias Click leaf removed the solid feel that I like about Brown Alps. I ended up restoring the altered switches to their original state, at least for now.
@menuhin: Check out E3E's build log, "Hammer Time: Backlit Hotswappable Complicated Alps 60% Build Log":
Hammer Time: Backlit Hotswappable Complicated Alps 60% Build Log
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.0
Post by: chyros on Sun, 27 November 2016, 12:39:08
Lately, I've been "top-modding" various Alps switches, mainly in an effort to convert them to the sound and feel I enjoy with Pine White Alps or Blue Alps.Several people have suggested the heaviness comes from the thicker metal used for the fake contact leaf in brown Alps, which is apparently thicker than that of the more usual tactile leaves.
Today, I tried swapping out the tactile leaves and return springs on some of the SKCM Brown Alps switches in my 60% custom board. I love the solid feel of the Brown Alps, but I find them a bit too heavy for long-term use. I also thought I'd like to convert them from tactile to tactile+clicky.
It has been a while since I consulted the DT wiki on these switches, and I had forgotten about the unusual tactile leaf -- it is a two-piece construction that fits very snugly against the slider. It seems to be mainly the tight fit of the tactile leaf that gives Brown Alps their solid and heavy feel.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 27 November 2016, 13:41:17
I'm typing this on my 60% Brown Alps board. With its taut switches, stainless steel plate, PBT caps, and TEX CNC aluminum case, it feels like a serious writing machine.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 27 November 2016, 14:10:00
Post by: E3E on Sun, 27 November 2016, 15:06:30
There's a list of older keyboards that I don't want to just harvest Alps switches from them, but I want to try them out from time to time.
My idea is to do some hot-swap mod on their PCBs, e.g. SGI Granite or an Apple keyboard, say an AEK or AEKII. I'm still wondering how feasible such an idea is.
I've also read E3E's report on GH that the 60% infinity's PCB (not the Eagle PCB from Duck) fits the pins of Alps switches so snugly that soldering is plausibly not required. So, I hope to be optimistic.
Okay, so the Infinity PCB does indeed support Alps switches without solder because the tolerances must be tighter than usual on the vias and so the pins make contact with them. Haata was even pleasantly surprised to hear this. There were a few naysayers when I reported that little unintended feature, but it never had any real issues when I used it that way. Beats drilling a PCB for hot swapping, even if it's not as "elegant" in the end.
I should clarify that the Eagle uses Alps and Cherry MX. You need to drill the PCB anyway because the holtite sockets that fit Alps pins are too wide for the vias used on all Alps PCBs I've come across. This includes the Leeku Alphas L3 PCB, the MXAlps 3000 PCB, Infinity, Eagle/Viper, etc.
A PCB would have to be designed with the sockets in mind for them to be more "plug n play" friendly. You need to take a drill to the pads to widen them and prepare to repair broken connections and have a lot of frustration while troubleshooting.
The Leeku Alphas PCB was very very tedious to drill and modify with sockets because of Leeku's design in the way it routes traces.
I wouldn't suggest doing this on vintage PCBs. I don't think they can handle the insertion of sockets and the sockets also seem to work directly with the via itself to create contact. The single-sided PCBs don't have vias.
I'd look for something solderable like mill max sockets, but you would still need to drill the PCB to allow those sockets to fit. Their flanges would also add a slight amount of height to the switches and plate too.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 27 November 2016, 15:10:46
Post by: E3E on Sun, 27 November 2016, 15:26:41
The tight tolerances of the SKCM Brown Alps switch are satisfying when dismantling and reassembling the switches. The tactile assembly slides into the housing-slider like the bolt into the receiver of a well-made bolt-action rifle or the piston into the cylinder of a new internal combustion engine. Other Alps switches seem rattly in comparison.
I'm typing this on my 60% Brown Alps board. With its taut switches, stainless steel plate, PBT caps, and TEX CNC aluminum case, it feels like a serious writing machine.
This is quote worthy. Very good description of SKCM Brown, Hypersphere. :D
Post by: chyros on Sun, 27 November 2016, 15:29:51
As you no doubt know, there are a couple of good sources for SKCM Brown Alps switches: keyboards from the IBM 5140 convertible computer and from the Magnavox Videowriter 250. Note, however, that the Magnavox 250 sometimes had inverted rubber dome keyboards like those in the Videowriter 350. The IBM 5140 keyboards also have lovely dye-sublimated PBT keycaps.Heh, yeah, but of course it's not easy finding one, let alone that I can afford, in good condition xD .
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 27 November 2016, 15:46:36
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 16:02:38
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 27 November 2016, 19:06:15
Were there any other keyboards with SKCM Brown Alps? Any freestanding ones that could be easily interchanged among computers?
Off the top of my head there were those Xerox boards, an obscure Texas instruments keyboard and what comes with AT&T Unix 7300 computers.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 19:40:37
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 27 November 2016, 20:05:11
Perhaps I have accounted for a few hundred of them, but still, wow!
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 21:10:59
The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now :)
(http://i.imgur.com/cYZOsbZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZRdThQ9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RdkotkK.jpg)
Post by: digi on Sun, 27 November 2016, 21:13:26
Swapped what SKCM Amber's I had into the Focus. The entire Alpha section and the arrow key's. The rest remain SKCM White until I can source the remaining Amber's I need :'(
The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cYZOsbZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZRdThQ9.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RdkotkK.jpg)
Nice d00d! They look great and I'm glad they worked out for ya. =)
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 21:18:47
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 21:18:53
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 27 November 2016, 21:56:23
frankenstein
I guess I must be the master of that then ;)
SKCM Orange SGI, SKCM Amber Focus, and SKCL Striped Amber Zenith :p
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 28 November 2016, 13:31:19
Post by: nastrovje on Mon, 28 November 2016, 15:33:40
Greetings, beloved keyboard community!
I‘m on the search for switch enlightenment and therefore have spent my last hours lubing all my MX and Gateron Switches but am still not satisfied.
Since I have tasted the sweet silenced Topre nectar, I can‘t enjoy any other switch aynmore. They all feel cheap and inferior on every level to me.
So I guess I have to go the Alps route now.
I just need to be able to believe in mechanical switches and can‘t submit myself to the evil japanese rubberdome demons without fighting. So help me with my quest! Don‘t let the dark side win me over!
Have you found the holy grail? Where should I empty my wallet? Or should we all rather go and buy Topre shares and get richer than those btc kids?
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 28 November 2016, 16:29:15
I also rank Topre (especially lubed and silenced) among my favorite switches -- I am typing this on my lubed and silenced HHKB PRo 2, which is perhaps my all-time favorite keyboard.
Throughout my keyboard odyssey, I have also favored IBM buckling spring switches, especially Model F (capacitive buckling spring).
However, in recent months I have been obsessed with Alps switches and finding it interesting and entertaining to make hybrids of them, which can be done conveniently without desoldering.
The holy grail is an ever-receding shadow that can never be touched. The quest is the thing.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 28 November 2016, 18:23:57
If you like Topre SKCM Browns is a great place to start.
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 28 November 2016, 19:39:16
Yea, Alps is never ending.
If you like Topre SKCM Browns is a great place to start.
SKCM Browns - the heaviest linear switches of Alps, some people compare them to Gateron black or Cherry black.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 28 November 2016, 19:44:05
Yea, Alps is never ending.
If you like Topre SKCM Browns is a great place to start.
SKCM Browns - the heaviest linear switches of Alps, some people compare them to Gateron black or Cherry black.
SKCL Browns! :D
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 28 November 2016, 19:44:14
SKCM Brown has that big rounded bump that Topre also exhibits. Got to try a 45g HHKB on a keyboard tour for a week.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 28 November 2016, 19:49:16
Post by: E3E on Mon, 28 November 2016, 20:08:58
Also loving SKCM Amber. Feels like i'm typing on a typewriter :cool:
Haha, you're always into your new projects, man. :p That's how it is though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 28 November 2016, 20:35:48
Also loving SKCM Amber. Feels like i'm typing on a typewriter :cool:
Haha, you're always into your new projects, man. :p That's how it is though.
Yea :))
They are legit good though. As good as SKCM Blue for sure. I think you should give them another try.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 28 November 2016, 20:49:17
Also loving SKCM Amber. Feels like i'm typing on a typewriter :cool:
Haha, you're always into your new projects, man. :p That's how it is though.
Yea :))
They are legit good though. As good as SKCM Blue for sure. I think you should give them another try.
I want to, for sure, but I'm not willing to shell out much for them since they're not very high on my list. I wouldn't say they're AS good as blues, but I would like a second opinion. :P
What did you trade for them again, or did you buy them from Digi?
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 28 November 2016, 21:18:01
I want to, for sure, but I'm not willing to shell out much for them since they're not very high on my list. I wouldn't say they're AS good as blues, but I would like a second opinion. :P
What did you trade for them again, or did you buy them from Digi?
Bought them from Digi.
SKCM Blue is a more balanced switch for sure but I like the aggressiveness of the Amber's. Feels very metallic and what a 'mechanical' keyboard should feel like to me in a sense. I'm sure capacitive BS and beamspring beats that out though :p
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 28 November 2016, 21:26:41
Yea, Alps is never ending.
If you like Topre SKCM Browns is a great place to start.
SKCM Browns - the heaviest linear switches of Alps, some people compare them to Gateron black or Cherry black.
SKCL Browns! :D
So short lived, and they still have 2 version! I read only about the SKCL on DT.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 29 November 2016, 06:39:46
I want to, for sure, but I'm not willing to shell out much for them since they're not very high on my list. I wouldn't say they're AS good as blues, but I would like a second opinion. :P
What did you trade for them again, or did you buy them from Digi?
Bought them from Digi.
SKCM Blue is a more balanced switch for sure but I like the aggressiveness of the Amber's. Feels very metallic and what a 'mechanical' keyboard should feel like to me in a sense. I'm sure capacitive BS and beamspring beats that out though :p
Eh, that's subjective, but I understand your enthusiasm. :thumb:
Post by: nastrovje on Tue, 29 November 2016, 13:14:09
Which switches are worth harvesting? I want blues obviously, and skcl browns as suggested to me here, but which one's are worth anything besides that? I don't have a car to transport too much, so I guess I'll just take the best stuff - if I find anything.
Which one's should I skip? I don't plan on building a collection.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 13:15:35
Decided to go to the recycling centers around here and ask at the University for old keyboards the upcoming weeks.You should take all alps boards, except maybe simplified alps boards or at101ws. If you find more than you want to keep, feel free to sell them on classifieds.
Which switches are worth harvesting? I want blues obviously, and skcl browns as suggested to me here, but which one's are worth anything besides that? I don't have a car to transport too much, so I guess I'll just take the best stuff - if I find anything.
Which one's should I skip? I don't plan on building a collection.
Post by: nastrovje on Tue, 29 November 2016, 13:26:20
Just wanting to make sure that I take the right ones if I stumble upon the big keyboard treasure but only got 1 chance to grab stuff.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 13:29:44
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 13:33:27
Ok, so all complicated alps! Can they be sorted by rarity/price?
If you need to trim the fat, non-vintage blacks, damped creams and damped whites should probably be the first to go.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:30:50
I might include IBM beam spring, but I have not yet refurbished mine, and I do not have enough actual typing experience with beam spring boards to give them a well-considered appraisal.
Once in a while, I enjoy Matias Click and Matias Quiet switches.
I also like the pronounced solid tactility of SKCM brown Alps, but they can get fatiguing in long typing sessions.
In recent weeks, I have been enjoying making various hybrid Alps switches. My latest project is click-modding a Zenith 163-73 board with SKCL Yellow Alps by swapping the tops with those from SKCM pine white Alps and adding click leaves from the white Alps switches. The unmodified yellow Alps are smooth and quiet, but I usually prefer switches that are tactile and with at least a subtle click. Exceptions to this rule are Cherry mx and clones -- these are best as unfettered linear, and I sort of like Gateron yellow switches.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 14:56:38
So to anyone, if you ever get whites in pristine condition, I would say go for it without hesitation. White Alps Matter :)
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 15:33:33
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 29 November 2016, 16:50:49
@alienman82: I understand being bored with Topre, but I like the style of its tactility, which in a sense is like that of buckling springs -- they each involve a catastrophic collapse, of a rubber dome in Topre, and of a spring in the buckling spring. And with Model F and Topre, the sensing mechanism is capacitive in each instance.
In my earlier days on GH and DT, I kept getting recommendations to try the HHKB, and I kept putting it off. I wasn't sure if I would like the 60% form factor or the "alien" layout. Then there was also the high price. Finally, I knew I would not have peace of mind until trying it, and I was amazed at how quickly and how much I liked every aspect of the HHKB. It took much less time than I anticipated to get accustomed to the layout, and now I remap all my keyboards to something as close as I can get to the HHKB configuration. This is one of the reasons I cannot use a BAE layout -- I need a key directly above an ANSI Enter for a Backspace key.
I'm typing this on my HHKB (silenced and lubed; black case; blank black mods and spacebar; blue alphas; red Esc and red Fn). However, on the bench behind me is a Zenith 163-73 with Yellow Alps ready for transplanted parts from SKCM Pine White Alps -- the parts are cooking in the ultrasonic cleaner.
I guess I like variety ....
Post by: chyros on Tue, 29 November 2016, 16:57:17
I can say SKCM whites have won me over. After all the bad experience with ones in my Omnikeys, when I finally cleaned and lubed ones in my KB-5181, they provide one of the better typing experiences I had. And the sound is not as rattly as on the Omnikeys, but a little bit deeper and subdued, despite the thin crappy caps :).The crappy caps actually help. Thin ABS really helps bring out the sound in Alps switches, moreso than thick ABS or PBT does.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 19:16:59
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 20:01:09
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 29 November 2016, 22:20:47
ah memories...MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/rFOi5uF.jpg)MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/bJdWQE4.jpg?1)
What model keyboard is that, the with the caps on?
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 22:32:41
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 29 November 2016, 22:42:41
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 30 November 2016, 16:02:52
Just got these caps today. Theyre pad printed abs, but they look great and feel ok. Found these on an AEKII on ebay. If someone wants to buy an AEKII with no keycaps and skcm white dampened, PM Me!
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 30 November 2016, 16:41:31
@mike52787
There are people who make even customized (PBT?) caps for Alps back then, now even GB is not doing so well.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 30 November 2016, 17:05:47
Although SKCM browns are favored by quite a few Alps lovers, Alps SKCL browns (linear) seem nowhere to be found except on a few Wiki posts.SKCL browns are very rare, and have only been found on 2 boards on very rare occasions. If there are more boards with them available, they are very rare or still undocumented. Since they are so rare that is why they are sparsely documented.
@mike52787
There are people who make even customized (PBT?) caps for Alps back then, now even GB is not doing so well.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 30 November 2016, 18:24:00
And im typing on them right now, on my Zenith :p
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 30 November 2016, 19:03:09
Natively, it has SKCL Yellow Alps. I modded the switches with tops and click leaves from SKCM Pine White Alps. I kept the Yellow sliders and return springs.
The result? It feels and sounds very much like SKCM Blue Alps!
A nice bonus of this keyboard is that the keycaps are dye-sub PBT.
I'll post more on this with some pics later.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 01 December 2016, 13:25:12
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 01 December 2016, 14:45:11
I am typing this on my newly hybridized Zenith 163-73.
Natively, it has SKCL Yellow Alps. I modded the switches with tops and click leaves from SKCM Pine White Alps. I kept the Yellow sliders and return springs.
The result? It feels and sounds very much like SKCM Blue Alps!
A nice bonus of this keyboard is that the keycaps are dye-sub PBT.
I'll post more on this with some pics later.
Do the click modded yellow alps feel heavier than blues, my greens certainly do.
just ordered 1.2mm thick SS plates for the VE.A from lasergist for about $75 shipped for both. Not bad at all.
You putting greens into those? Looking forward to seeing how it comes out.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 01 December 2016, 14:57:55
To me, the hybrid switches have a feel and sound reminiscent of SKCM blue Alps, although they might feel slightly heavier.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 01 December 2016, 14:59:34
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 01 December 2016, 15:14:46
Also, that is a damn good price you have on those OG dye-subs ;)
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 01 December 2016, 15:35:07
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 01 December 2016, 15:37:48
The China laser cutting services can do alu for a good price, but they don't have 1.2mm
Also, that is a damn good price you have on those OG dye-subs ;)
boycott china
YUGE boycott, but just sayin' Lasergist is Greek based.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 01 December 2016, 15:40:26
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 02 December 2016, 21:59:57
Also reminds me of why I love my Packard. It sits wayy flatter on the desk than any of my other keyboards, it's quite refreshing. That craigslist guy had no idea what he had, only a old computer from a company that no longer exists. He was sitting on gold :eek:
I nominate the Packard Bell T9102 to be one of the best keyboards ever made ;)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 03 December 2016, 08:48:39
A. Dab of grease on the spring nub on the slider.
B. Placing the upright spring on the bottom of the switch housing and carefully lowering the top housing with slider and leaf onto the bottom of the switch.
C. Magnet.
I have been using method (A) above, but I am concerned that the grease might eventually gum up the works.
I've seen method (B) exhibited by Chyros in one of his videos. I tried this method , but I found it too fiddly and nerve-wracking.
The magnet methods looks the most appealing. I should have tried this long ago, but I didn't have quite the right magnet readily available.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 03 December 2016, 13:03:23
2) put on slider
3) slide over housing
Doddle.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 03 December 2016, 13:32:36
1) put in springWhen do you put in the click/tactile leaf for clicky or tactile Alps switches?
2) put on slider
3) slide over housing
Doddle.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 December 2016, 14:46:35
A. Put in tactile leaf
B. Put in spring on the little nub
C. Put in the slider so it's sitting on the spring
D Put on top housing on halfway, align the slider in the top housing, and make sure the leaf is lined up so you don't crush it, then put it on.
The golden tool is to use tooth picks, you can use it to align the spring and slider while also using it to correct the position of the leaf if it moved out of place a bit. I find no need to use cocktail sticks like Chyros's method. I've reassembled hundreds of switches this way. Gotten quite quick at it too.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 03 December 2016, 15:07:27
For disassembly of Alps switches, I use the "Alps Trident" tool from MrBishop -- it works beautifully. To retrieve springs and click/tactile leaves, I use a magnet.
Regarding your Packard Bell T9102, perhaps you should create a separate thread dedicated to this keyboard with pics and audio clips.
It would be nice to think of some objective measures whereby we could compare the sound of various switch/keyboard combinations. For example, using standardized recording conditions, identical typing samples, and software such as Audacity we might compare audio spectra -- plots of frequency vs. dB. This might give us a way to quantify our subjective impressions of the sounds.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 December 2016, 17:00:36
@Mattr567: Thanks for the tips. I've been using a variant of Chyros' method this afternoon, and it is working reasonably well. It is not quite as convenient for me as the "dab of grease" method, but it keeps grease out of the switch.
For disassembly of Alps switches, I use the "Alps Trident" tool from MrBishop -- it works beautifully. To retrieve springs and click/tactile leaves, I use a magnet.
Regarding your Packard Bell T9102, perhaps you should create a separate thread dedicated to this keyboard with pics and audio clips.
It would be nice to think of some objective measures whereby we could compare the sound of various switch/keyboard combinations. For example, using standardized recording conditions, identical typing samples, and software such as Audacity we might compare audio spectra -- plots of frequency vs. dB. This might give us a way to quantify our subjective impressions of the sounds.
You'll get faster. I would never put in grease for such a thing :eek:
Packard thread coming right up!
Post by: chyros on Sat, 03 December 2016, 17:49:15
Before the spring. When you put the slider on the spring, the leaf gets pulled inward enough that you can slide the housing over it.1) put in springWhen do you put in the click/tactile leaf for clicky or tactile Alps switches?
2) put on slider
3) slide over housing
Doddle.
I find this goes really quickly for me. Besides, you should try this with Montereys or some Alps clones, you'd go barking mad xD .
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 03 December 2016, 23:55:01
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 04 December 2016, 09:43:35
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 04 December 2016, 22:43:25
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351918547561
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 05 December 2016, 02:59:21
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Mon, 05 December 2016, 13:04:12
Looks like a good deal to me
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351918547561
Bob Tibbets has been in the game a long time it turns out.
Hardly surprising, given that his website looks like something from the wayback machine.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 06 December 2016, 09:06:00
After using my Packard Bell T9102 again I have come to the conclusion that SKCM Blue is better than Amber. They have a balance and bassyness that cannot be competed with :p HOWEVER SKCM Amber still deserves a place on the mantle.
Also reminds me of why I love my Packard. It sits wayy flatter on the desk than any of my other keyboards, it's quite refreshing. That craigslist guy had no idea what he had, only a old computer from a company that no longer exists. He was sitting on gold :eek:
I nominate the Packard Bell T9102 to be one of the best keyboards ever made ;)
:'(
:p
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 06 December 2016, 11:04:11
Aww shucks, didn't realize until now that I was nominated for best discovery for the DT Awards 2016. Feel a bit special ^-^
;)
Post by: mseaworthy on Tue, 06 December 2016, 14:18:11
HHKB-ish layout and functionality via the function key right of the spacebar (down arrow key), and the diamond cursor is highlighted in a lighter shade of blue. I like color and symmetry.
Currently I have the backspace programmed same as HHKB (above enter), and the key above it functions are the pipe \.
Matias Quiet Click keys, custom cut steel plate, PCB substrate is made with toner transfer. Caps died with Dylon.
Case is quarter sawn white oak with the USB header stress relieved against the wood.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 06 December 2016, 14:30:07
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 06 December 2016, 16:36:12
Although I like Alps (and Matias) along with IBM Model F boards in my rotation, at present, most of the time I use my HHKB Pro 2, and I like the Fn to the right of the Right Shift key. However, on "standard layout" keyboards, I use the right-most key on the bottom row (usually RCtrl) as Fn. In these positions, I find it most convenient to activate Fn with the pinky.
Some would say that Topre is boring. Perhaps so, but it does provide the catastrophic collapse type of tactility that I like, yet it is subtle enough not to call undue attention to itself, enabling me to get my work done without being distracted by the keyboard.
Good luck with the sale! Someone is going to get a very handsome keyboard.
Post by: mseaworthy on Tue, 06 December 2016, 17:20:50
@mseaworthy: I like your custom board! Given the position of your Fn key, do you use your thumb to activate it?
@Hypersphere
Thanks for the kind words.
I use right thumb, right pointer finger on this board most of the time. However, I have also mapped ESC to function as Fn when held. It's nice to have the flexibility for one-handed, left-handed use.
Post by: drevyek on Wed, 07 December 2016, 02:57:01
What sort of PCB is that, in such a strange layout?
Post by: mseaworthy on Wed, 07 December 2016, 09:36:49
@ the PCB is a sheet of copper with the traces applied through thermal transfer
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 07 December 2016, 12:33:48
Swapped what SKCM Amber's I had into the Focus. The entire Alpha section and the arrow key's. The rest remain SKCM White until I can source the remaining Amber's I need :'(
The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cYZOsbZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZRdThQ9.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RdkotkK.jpg)
That looks awesome, did you harvest them from an Apple IIc?
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 07 December 2016, 18:13:49
Swapped what SKCM Amber's I had into the Focus. The entire Alpha section and the arrow key's. The rest remain SKCM White until I can source the remaining Amber's I need :'(
The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cYZOsbZ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZRdThQ9.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RdkotkK.jpg)
That looks awesome, did you harvest them from an Apple IIc?
Yea. And still looking for more Amber's to fill the rest of the board :rolleyes:
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 07 December 2016, 20:26:01
Swapped what SKCM Amber's I had into the Focus. The entire Alpha section and the arrow key's. The rest remain SKCM White until I can source the remaining Amber's I need :'(
The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now :)
That looks awesome, did you harvest them from an Apple IIc?
Yea. And still looking for more Amber's to fill the rest of the board :rolleyes:
I guess I should join the crowd:
(http://i.imgur.com/8XaNJgs.jpg)
:p
Post by: romevi on Thu, 08 December 2016, 10:39:32
(http://i.imgur.com/DriwixZ.jpg)
A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).
Here is the board with only AEK caps:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/2w2AZsg.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 08 December 2016, 10:47:24
is it a custom plate and handwired? you may want to remove nylon protecting the plate and get it painted :) beware of powdercoating as after it you may need to file the switch holes depending on how thick paint layer ends up to be
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 08 December 2016, 11:09:19
apple keycap and orange switches in an interesting layout - nice first board :)
is it a custom plate and handwired? you may want to remove nylon protecting the plate and get it painted :) beware of powdercoating as after it you may need to file the switch holes depending on how thick paint layer ends up to be
I believe that is a clueboard PCB
First Alps board.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DriwixZ.jpg)
A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).
Here is the board with only AEK caps:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/2w2AZsg.jpg)
You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??
In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this :thumb:
Post by: romevi on Thu, 08 December 2016, 11:14:45
First Alps board.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DriwixZ.jpg)
A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).
Here is the board with only AEK caps:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/2w2AZsg.jpg)
You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??
In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this :thumb:
No, the older one: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aluminum-case-for-leopold-fc660m?mode=guest_open
Also, yeah, it was a pain. It took me months of deciding which layout to use, and which caps maker (Signature Plastics/Tai-Hao or original Alps caps). Then someone sold me an M0116 with orange switches and that solved my problems: was able to make my desired layout!
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 08 December 2016, 13:08:28
First Alps board.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DriwixZ.jpg)
A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).
Here is the board with only AEK caps:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/2w2AZsg.jpg)
You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??
In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this :thumb:
No, the older one: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aluminum-case-for-leopold-fc660m?mode=guest_open
Also, yeah, it was a pain. It took me months of deciding which layout to use, and which caps maker (Signature Plastics/Tai-Hao or original Alps caps). Then someone sold me an M0116 with orange switches and that solved my problems: was able to make my desired layout!
Very nice! Someone on Reddit figured out that the Varmilo 68% case and bottom row spacing works with the Apple AEK bottom row, this is probably what I will build for myself soon:
(https://i.imgur.com/JMnhkv5.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 08 December 2016, 14:56:31
I really wanted to do a clueboard, but I think that VA68 project is going to be home of my orange alps.First Alps board.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DriwixZ.jpg)
A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).
Here is the board with only AEK caps:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/2w2AZsg.jpg)
You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??
In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this :thumb:
No, the older one: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aluminum-case-for-leopold-fc660m?mode=guest_open
Also, yeah, it was a pain. It took me months of deciding which layout to use, and which caps maker (Signature Plastics/Tai-Hao or original Alps caps). Then someone sold me an M0116 with orange switches and that solved my problems: was able to make my desired layout!
Very nice! Someone on Reddit figured out that the Varmilo 68% case and bottom row spacing works with the Apple AEK bottom row, this is probably what I will build for myself soon:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/JMnhkv5.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 08 December 2016, 17:12:54
Post by: romevi on Thu, 08 December 2016, 17:23:30
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 17:46:00
Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 18:03:49
Post by: E3E on Sat, 10 December 2016, 18:47:17
agreed. but i think it's better
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
/me throws shade on both of you
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 19:54:45
Before I first tried it, I was wondering what all the ruckus was about, but now I can type on a model M, think it's nice, than go type on a model F, and when I return back to model M it just feels flat. There are are relatively cheap options in the US for getting a model F, and everyone should take advantage of it.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:03:05
I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:04:38
Model F is forbidden fruit in a way. The F122 and 4704's are amazing but super expensive all said and done, and the cheaper F XT/AT have bizarro unusable layout's. Unless the power of Alps brought me one in tradingYou should have bought a MF kit then! all the advantages of a model m and all the keyfeel advantages of a model f in usable layouts? sign me the **** up!
I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:05:08
Tried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch :o
Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.
Yeah, that is why Ellipse's Model-F Keyboards will be much sought after when he's finished production and sold them all off, to everyone that loves this type of switch.
Suspect some will sell these on Flebay for maximum profits :thumb: .
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:09:51
Model F is forbidden fruit in a way. The F122 and 4704's are amazing but super expensive all said and done, and the cheaper F XT/AT have bizarro unusable layout's. Unless the power of Alps brought me one in tradingYou should have bought a MF kit then! all the advantages of a model m and all the keyfeel advantages of a model f in usable layouts? sign me the **** up!
I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.
What's that?
YeaTried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch :o
Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.
Yeah, that is why Ellipse's Model-F Keyboards will be much sought after when he's finished production and sold them all off, to everyone that loves this type of switch.
Suspect some will sell these on Flebay for maximum profits :thumb: .
Thinking about it, someone should make Model F reproduction parts that retrofit into Model M's. Saves money too.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:12:14
(but, let's not dwell on BS too much here, because I sense E3E is readying the pitchforks :))
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:13:00
https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/model-mf-drop-in-kit-for-converting-the-ibm-model-m-into-an-f-t15091.html?sid=07a15eca05933f52a3f1bad16ebdc28c (https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/model-mf-drop-in-kit-for-converting-the-ibm-model-m-into-an-f-t15091.html?sid=07a15eca05933f52a3f1bad16ebdc28c)Model F is forbidden fruit in a way. The F122 and 4704's are amazing but super expensive all said and done, and the cheaper F XT/AT have bizarro unusable layout's. Unless the power of Alps brought me one in tradingYou should have bought a MF kit then! all the advantages of a model m and all the keyfeel advantages of a model f in usable layouts? sign me the **** up!
I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.
What's that?
damn shame you missed it, probably a a once in a lifetime GB. and it was only about $225 all said and done. all you would need is a model m for donor case and keycaps.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:15:12
What's that?
...
Thinking about it, someone should make Model F reproduction parts that retrofit into Model M's. Saves money too.
Oh my. That's exactly that. Kind of. It uses custom PCB, plates and controller, with switches from real model Fs, and it's all intended to be put in M/SSK case and used with its keycaps.
If I were you, I'd run over to DT, and PM lot_lizard immediately to squeeze you in, even though GB ended a week ago. If you need someone to vouch for you, I bet all of us here would do it.
Edit: on a positive note, I think that lot_lizard will share all the design files ones everything is over, so everyone could order a PCB and controller from one of the online PCB services, and make the plates in a local metal shop. The final price would probably be quite bigger in the end, especially when you factor in a donor model F as well.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:18:05
Damn cool GB though.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:33:23
Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 20:47:53
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 21:14:17
haha I guess its all perspective, I thought that that was a great price for such a kit.
Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.
Yea it's still a good deal, just not the right time for me :p
Still have a awesome Model M coming to me. Green alpha sublegends + industrial case?! :eek:
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 21:36:12
Wait, what caps are on your model M? AFAIK the only caps with green sublegends are the Wheelwriter Typewriter caps and the Displaywriter SSK caps. I have 2 sets of the wheelwriter caps, and they're great. The best dyesub on one piece caps Ive ever seen, and it has those cool looking sublegends, whats not to love?haha I guess its all perspective, I thought that that was a great price for such a kit.
Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.
Yea it's still a good deal, just not the right time for me :p
Still have a awesome Model M coming to me. Green alpha sublegends + industrial case?! :eek:
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 21:49:09
Yea it's still a good deal, just not the right time for me :pWait, what caps are on your model M? AFAIK the only caps with green sublegends are the Wheelwriter Typewriter caps and the Displaywriter SSK caps. I have 2 sets of the wheelwriter caps, and they're great. The best dyesub on one piece caps Ive ever seen, and it has those cool looking sublegends, whats not to love?
Still have a awesome Model M coming to me. Green alpha sublegends + industrial case?! :eek:
Here is the picture from the listing :eek: It's a bit more than just a couple legends here and there like the wheel or displaywriter.
(http://i.imgur.com/2FA0Xo1.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 10 December 2016, 21:56:11
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 10 December 2016, 22:07:07
This thread should now be known as the capacitive buckling spring appreciation thread. >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Sorry I derailed the thread :))
Post by: drevyek on Sun, 11 December 2016, 01:58:06
haha I guess its all perspective, I thought that that was a great price for such a kit.
Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.
The issue is how Alps went about the damping. Contrast with Matias dampers, which stick out from the slider on both ends, the Alps bumpers are recessed into the slider. The way that the sliders actually do their job is by using a pair of slightly enlarged nubs at the bottom of the case, and slightly enlarged (I think, it is hard to see) pine slits on the top case. These contact the bumper, and damp the sound, but maintain full travel.
I am using orange tactile leaves inside of cream cases, and it works quite well. Main issue is the short switchplate. Unfortunately, that isn't something you can lose if you also want the elongated nubs on the bottom (general pine slits seem to work fine, as I'm using orange case tops). I experimented with soldering off the stands that the long switchplates stand on, but it is just uneven, and really doesn't help any. So, if you want to use damped sliders with a long switchplate, you sort of need to use Matias sliders.
This thread should now be known as the capacitive buckling spring appreciation thread. >:D >:D >:D >:D >:DSorry I derailed the thread :))
Where's the "BS BS" thread? :P
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 December 2016, 12:50:49
Tried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch :eek:Welcome to The Enlightenment.
Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.
The IBM Model F XT was my first refurbishing project. I got the XT board for $19. It was in okay shape, but I went ahead and dismantled it, sanded and painted the barrel plate, installed a Teensy with Soarer's Converter, installed a panel-mount USB-B connector, programmed it to something like a HHKB layout, and replaced some of the keycaps with new ones from Unicomp.
The XT is my most solid keyboard and the capacitive buckling springs are my favorite switch. The layout is a bit strange, but I have made it work for me.
I like the Model F so much that I have the following boards waiting for me to refurbish them and where applicable mod them to an ANSI layout: F62 Kishsaver, F84 AT, F107, and F122.
On order, I have the Ellipse F62 and the lot_lizard et al. FSSK and full-size MF boards.
I also like Alps and Topre, but I consider Model F the greatest switch of them all.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 11 December 2016, 12:54:13
wait... you have an OG kishsaver??? SELL ME THISTried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch :eek:Welcome to The Enlightenment.
Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.
The IBM Model F XT was my first refurbishing project. I got the XT board for $19. It was in okay shape, but I went ahead and dismantled it, sanded and painted the barrel plate, installed a Teensy with Soarer's Converter, installed a panel-mount USB-B connector, programmed it to something like a HHKB layout, and replaced some of the keycaps with new ones from Unicomp.
The XT is my most solid keyboard and the capacitive buckling springs are my favorite switch. The layout is a bit strange, but I have made it work for me.
I like the Model F so much that I have the following boards waiting for me to refurbish them and where applicable mod them to an ANSI layout: F62 Kishsaver, F84 AT, F107, and F122.
On order, I have the Ellipse F62 and the lot_lizard et al. FSSK and full-size MF boards.
I also like Alps and Topre, but I consider Model F the greatest switch of them all.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 December 2016, 13:01:35
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 11 December 2016, 13:02:40
Yep. A "real" Kishsaver. It's not for sale at this time. Possibly never. I want to try my hand at refurbishing and converting it first, and I want to see how it compares to the "new" Kishsaver that I will be getting through the Ellipse project. I waited a l-o-n-g time for the Kishy, but patience finally was rewarded.haha yeah, It'll be the same with me and my never-ending hunt for an unsaver.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 11 December 2016, 13:25:08
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 11 December 2016, 13:29:51
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 11 December 2016, 18:50:24
I saw an Unsaver sell on eBay a few weeks ago. $175 BIN with an XWhatsIt controller installed.Yep. A "real" Kishsaver. It's not for sale at this time. Possibly never. I want to try my hand at refurbishing and converting it first, and I want to see how it compares to the "new" Kishsaver that I will be getting through the Ellipse project. I waited a l-o-n-g time for the Kishy, but patience finally was rewarded.haha yeah, It'll be the same with me and my never-ending hunt for an unsaver.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 11 December 2016, 18:51:10
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 11 December 2016, 22:26:36
(http://i.imgur.com/vJ3VDjk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RwYhc4t.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 11 December 2016, 23:51:05
Super clean SGI Button Box from Taobao. SKCL Grey LED https://world.taobao.com/item/520717221840.htmShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/vJ3VDjk.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RwYhc4t.jpg)
This is the same one that's been on there since forever ago. Same pictures. It's been sold since long ago.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 12 December 2016, 10:28:33
I've installed an Orihalcon/Soarer internal converter and a panel-mount micro-USB connector. The XT-like layout on the DC-2014 is not bad. With the oversized Right Bracket serving as Backspace and the PrtSc to the right of the short Right Shift as the Fn key, is is convenient to set up the board with a HHKB layout.
I cut a piece of "art foam" to fit snugly in the bottom of the case, using a cork borer to punch holes for the PCB standoffs and screw mounts. The foam helps to make the case sound especially solid -- it sounds like my IBM XT when I do a percussion test -- thumping the case with my finger.
The only change I might make is to replace the alpha caps with a PBT set. Although the stock doubleshot ABS caps look fine, I prefer the feel of PBT. Some folks say that thin ABS is the best keycap material to bring out the sound of Blue Alps. If thick PBT deadens the sound too much, I have a thin PBT set from an IBM P70 to try out.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 12 December 2016, 10:34:45
Just now finished putting a Leading Edge DC-2014 with SKCM Blue Alps back together, and I am typing on it now. The switches turned out to be in excellent shape, but the keycaps and case were the dirtiest I had ever seen. Underneath the grime, the case and caps came out looking almost new -- virtually no yellowing. I didn't need to do anything to the switches, except I replaced the slider from the spacebar switch with a damped slider from a Matias Quiet switch.Starting to convert to blue yet? ;)
I've installed an Orihalcon/Soarer internal converter and a panel-mount micro-USB connector. The XT-like layout on the DC-2014 is not bad. With the oversized Right Bracket serving as Backspace and the PrtSc to the right of the short Right Shift as the Fn key, is is convenient to set up the board with a HHKB layout.
I cut a piece of "art foam" to fit snugly in the bottom of the case, using a cork borer to punch holes for the PCB standoffs and screw mounts. The foam helps to make the case sound especially solid -- it sounds like my IBM XT when I do a percussion test -- thumping the case with my finger.
The only change I might make is to replace the alpha caps with a PBT set. Although the stock doubleshot ABS caps look fine, I prefer the feel of PBT. Some folks say that thin ABS is the best keycap material to bring out the sound of Blue Alps. If thick PBT deadens the sound too much, I have a thin PBT set from an IBM P70 to try out.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 12 December 2016, 10:46:42
=====
Here is a pic of my LE DC-2014 showing how a full-size acrylic keyboard roof from Elitekeyboards fits perfectly to cover all the keys:
[attach=1]
I took the pic at an angle that showed annoying reflections on purpose -- without the reflections, it is almost impossible to see the cover. I've been known to start typing when I've had one of these covers in place on other keyboards. The cover fits many contemporary keyboards and, not surpringly given its fit to the XT-like DC-2014, it also fits the IBM XT keyboard quite nicely.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 13 December 2016, 18:31:59
A couple of years ago I transplanted blue Alps into a Northgate Omnikey 101 and it turned out really well. There were a couple of failed attempts on the way there, due to low-grade soldering skills and equipment, and I ended up trashing a couple of them in the process. That made for a great keyboard but perhaps less than perfect because the switches and caps did have a bit of wear and my soldering is not impeccable.
So, a few months ago, I got a great Omnikey 101 on ebay that is probably new, although it was sold as "used". It came from a gaming store and I suspect that it was only ever used little or none - it was immaculately clean throughout with no sign of use or wear whatsoever. The only problem was that there were odd stickers on about a dozen keys that were very difficult to remove.
I had a large collection of orange Alps in good condition which I cleaned ultrasonically and lubed with dry Teflon spray with the intention of doing a "creamsicle" (great name, whoever made that up) type mod from the top. But as I looked at the pieces that I had in front of me, I saw a pile of white sliders and top housings that were essentially new. So, rather than use the orange sliders that I had cleaned and lubed, I used only the tactile leaves and springs from the oranges and the near-new white sliders and housings.
I lubed the white sliders with light Krytox and a small paint brush, sparingly, only on the sides, and put them back together with out doing any soldering or any other "destructive" modifications to the original assembly.
So far, without long-term evaluation, this is a magnificent keyboard and immediately moves to the highest level of my personal pantheon.
I will report back later if it drops in its position.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 13 December 2016, 19:38:41
Are your White Alps top housings Pine (with slits) or Bamboo (without slits)?
The leaves are clearly different -- Whites are clicky and Oranges are tactile.
What about the springs? What is the difference, if any, between a White and Orange Alps spring?
Of all the Alps boards I have tried, my favorite is the Northgate Omnikey 101 (ANSI) with Pine White Alps switches. Although I like Blue Alps, I would prefer them in the solid standard-layout chassis of the Omni 101, but this would require desoldering two boards and soldering another. If a top-mod could create a Blue-like Frankenswitch, this would be great.
How does your Frankenswitch compare to Pine White, Orange, and Blue Alps?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 13 December 2016, 20:52:02
How does your Frankenswitch compare to Pine White, Orange, and Blue Alps?
The way I see it, I "re-created" an orange switch.
As far as I know, all the pine parts are the same except for leaves, springs, and slider color. I simply left the bases in place to avoid all the mess and uncertainty that goes with soldering and de-soldering 2 sets of switches, re-used the like-new sliders and top housings, and merely replaced the slightly heavier white springs with slightly lighter orange springs, and clicky leaves with tactile leaves. Plus lightly lubricated the sliders for good measure.
The result is a relatively light, very smooth, and quiet switch with good tactility. What more do you want?
Post by: ShawnMeg on Wed, 14 December 2016, 00:05:09
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=3]
Here are 2 of my AEK's. The first is an AEK with oranges that I click modded. The second is an AEK II with salmons. I have a third AEK II with creams that I click modded and removed the dampers. For all three, I either disabled the locking mechanism or swapped with the F15. I remapped Capslock as CTRL, as I use a lot of CTRL + other key combinations. I also swapped the D with the F as well as the K with the J keys as having the homing bumps on my middle finger drove me nuts. I made a couple adb_usb adapters with a Pro Micro clone. I like these three switches better than the whites on my Omnikey.
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Wed, 14 December 2016, 15:06:56
What color should i paint the plate? black? Grey? Silver? Should i just polish the steel and clear coat it? :)
I'll also probably paint the plastic top, but let's see how the rest comes out first
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 14 December 2016, 17:24:05
Looks like we are both into recreational switch use. ;)
How does your Frankenswitch compare to Pine White, Orange, and Blue Alps?
The way I see it, I "re-created" an orange switch.
As far as I know, all the pine parts are the same except for leaves, springs, and slider color. I simply left the bases in place to avoid all the mess and uncertainty that goes with soldering and de-soldering 2 sets of switches, re-used the like-new sliders and top housings, and merely replaced the slightly heavier white springs with slightly lighter orange springs, and clicky leaves with tactile leaves. Plus lightly lubricated the sliders for good measure.
The result is a relatively light, very smooth, and quiet switch with good tactility. What more do you want?
What more would I want? Clicks! ;)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 18 December 2016, 21:42:30
By that mertic E3E is a millionaire.
Post by: XMIT on Sun, 18 December 2016, 21:48:47
I'm also trying to popularize Nopre for boards like Royal Kludge, Noppoo and Plum. Think: "Topre? Nope!"
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 18 December 2016, 21:56:45
Post by: drevyek on Sun, 18 December 2016, 22:27:13
Hypersphere, I believe I thought of the creamsicle term. I may not have been there first but I don't believe I ripped it off of anyone else. I believe that tall switch plates are an important component here!I'd say that having the cream bases is really key in ensuring the damping actually works as intended. It sacrifices long switch plates, but it's a trade-off for superior damping.
Only way to do it otherwise would be to remove the stilts that hold up the short switch plate on the cream base, or use Matias dampers.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 19 December 2016, 18:07:38
Here they are on my SKCM Amber FK-3001. They do change them feel a lot actually. The switches feel smoother with more plastic between your finger and the slider. These DS Tandem caps are made by Alps so they are superb. Not all the legends are perfect but they fit in pretty well if the stock Taihao caps aren't right next to them. The Taihao caps are slightly whiter, it's just down to the base color's are slightly different.
(http://i.imgur.com/C4ZYr4r.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/U5WZtHN.jpg)
Spacebar I purposefully never retrobrighted
(http://i.imgur.com/miPtrwN.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 December 2016, 18:15:01
Retrobrighted my Tandem keycaps again. Got them pearly white finally :) The only side affect was that I decided to do over the Beige keycaps and bleached them quite badly. No loss since I was never going to use them. They only bleached after 3 rounds of retrobright so I can't blame them. The white's turned out great.
Here they are on my SKCM Amber FK-3001. They do change them feel a lot actually. The switches feel smoother with more plastic between your finger and the slider. These DS Tandem caps are made by Alps so they are superb. Not all the legends are perfect but they fit in pretty well if the stock Taihao caps aren't right next to them. The Taihao caps are slightly whiter, it's just down to the base color's are slightly different.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C4ZYr4r.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/U5WZtHN.jpg)
Spacebar I purposefully never retrobrightedShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/miPtrwN.jpg)
I warned you about the bleaching, my man. :P
I was about to ask you why you wiped off the lipstick off of your striped ambers, but then I realized they were SKCMs. :b
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 19 December 2016, 18:41:18
Retrobrighted my Tandem keycaps again. Got them pearly white finally :) The only side affect was that I decided to do over the Beige keycaps and bleached them quite badly. No loss since I was never going to use them. They only bleached after 3 rounds of retrobright so I can't blame them. The white's turned out great.
Here they are on my SKCM Amber FK-3001. They do change them feel a lot actually. The switches feel smoother with more plastic between your finger and the slider. These DS Tandem caps are made by Alps so they are superb. Not all the legends are perfect but they fit in pretty well if the stock Taihao caps aren't right next to them. The Taihao caps are slightly whiter, it's just down to the base color's are slightly different.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C4ZYr4r.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/U5WZtHN.jpg)
Spacebar I purposefully never retrobrightedShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/miPtrwN.jpg)
I warned you about the bleaching, my man. :P
I was about to ask you why you wiped off the lipstick off of your striped ambers, but then I realized they were SKCMs. :b
Lol. It was only on the beige keycaps, and after the 3rd round. It took some pretty extreme measures to cause it to happen, but lesson learned nonetheless. The white's came out perfect. No bleaching or stain's.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 December 2016, 19:05:45
Lol. It was only on the beige keycaps, and after the 3rd round. It took some pretty extreme measures to cause it to happen, but lesson learned nonetheless. The white's came out perfect. No bleaching or stain's.
Yeah, any dark colors are very vulnerable to bleaching. I would never use the smother and wrap in plastic method since that's just asking for bleaching. Just coat them and wash them off. The plastic wrap isn't helping anything. With darker colors, if you want to be very vigilant, wash them off every hour to be sure the stuff does not dry. If RB dries on darker colors, it almost always leaves bleaching, especially if you're using a creme.
Yeah, the whites and creams and pearls are magical with RB, but anything that dips into the greys and beiges and worse, blacks and dark browns, etc, will be very vulnerable.
Those caps were expendable anyway though. The 3K1 looks good, my man. :thumb: Good quality ABS to type on.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 19 December 2016, 19:19:57
Lol. It was only on the beige keycaps, and after the 3rd round. It took some pretty extreme measures to cause it to happen, but lesson learned nonetheless. The white's came out perfect. No bleaching or stain's.
Yeah, any dark colors are very vulnerable to bleaching. I would never use the smother and wrap in plastic method since that's just asking for bleaching. Just coat them and wash them off. The plastic wrap isn't helping anything. With darker colors, if you want to be very vigilant, wash them off every hour to be sure the stuff does not dry. If RB dries on darker colors, it almost always leaves bleaching, especially if you're using a creme.
Yeah, the whites and creams and pearls are magical with RB, but anything that dips into the greys and beiges and worse, blacks and dark browns, etc, will be very vulnerable.
Those caps were expendable anyway though. The 3K1 looks good, my man. :thumb: Good quality ABS to type on.
Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board :))
Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course :p
Post by: E3E on Mon, 19 December 2016, 19:24:22
Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board :))
Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course :p
What do you plan on using the SKCL Greens for? :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 19 December 2016, 20:13:14
Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board :))
Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course :p
What do you plan on using the SKCL Greens for? :)
Selling all of it. Need the money for SKCM Amber's and other stuff. I'm thinking about swapping the V60 with SKCM Blue though. Would need to take picture's of my hand wiring setup, and be careful. Then I would sell off it's SKCL Green's.
May or may not happen though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 14:28:56
(http://i.imgur.com/YKf6tLc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3jiPrnw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lTXJzfH.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 14:40:56
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 15:35:47
Taobao Blue's today after ultrasonic. With a bit of teflon lube on the slider they feel great!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YKf6tLc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3jiPrnw.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lTXJzfH.jpg)
SO much work though...
just get a model F
I know :eek: I'm gonna sell them after I get them all back together along with the SKCL Green's and SKCL Yellow's and some MX Blue I have lying around. Should be a nice cash influx for other things. 400+ switch sellout :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 17:43:57
(http://i.imgur.com/GcripgR.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 18:35:41
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 19:49:27
Looking at this idk what PD0 and PD1 is
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/converter/ibm4704_usb
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 21:19:09
Does anyone know how to wire up a Pingmaster for TMK? Have my hex file but idk hardware wise how to wire it up. Also what board should I use (teensy, arduino etc)PD0 is literally Pin D0, just drop the P and you know what pins to solder to.
Looking at this idk what PD0 and PD1 is
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/converter/ibm4704_usb
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 20 December 2016, 21:47:42
Does anyone know how to wire up a Pingmaster for TMK? Have my hex file but idk hardware wise how to wire it up. Also what board should I use (teensy, arduino etc)PD0 is literally Pin D0, just drop the P and you know what pins to solder to.
Looking at this idk what PD0 and PD1 is
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/converter/ibm4704_usb
Oh :p
Post by: atrere on Wed, 21 December 2016, 00:56:40
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 21 December 2016, 01:30:54
Does anyone know if Alps Plate Springs have the same pin configuration as standard Alps switches? I'd like to swap them into a board sometime.nope, theyre a completely different animal. differently sized and the pins arent the same.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 21 December 2016, 05:50:36
Does anyone know if Alps Plate Springs have the same pin configuration as standard Alps switches? I'd like to swap them into a board sometime.
They have the same spacing, and it seems like the same width on the pins, but it's rotated 90 degrees.
(http://i.imgur.com/YjaG8IG.jpg)
This is a special PCB gifted to me by Zefyr.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 21 December 2016, 18:01:36
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 21 December 2016, 18:26:34
@Mattr567: An easy but higher-cost option is to buy a Pingmaster converter from Hasu.
Yea, I bought an adapter for my NeXT from Hasu. The problem then was with the figuring out the programming and changing the layout. Now though thanks to Hasu on his website there is a GUI version so creating a Hex file is a breeze. I'll pick up a Teensy 2.0 and I should be good for the pingmaster :thumb:
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 21 December 2016, 20:27:49
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 21 December 2016, 20:28:50
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 21 December 2016, 22:31:40
(http://i.imgur.com/o77zbjw.jpg)
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 22 December 2016, 11:46:32
Dug up this photo the Taobao proxy service took. More graphic than the pictures I took even. The dirt is glued onto the slider!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o77zbjw.jpg)
You got it from a TaoBao proxy?!? :eek:
I may be getting something in a similar condition then. :-X
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 22 December 2016, 11:52:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 22 December 2016, 12:33:01
Dug up this photo the Taobao proxy service took. More graphic than the pictures I took even. The dirt is glued onto the slider!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o77zbjw.jpg)
You got it from a TaoBao proxy?!? :eek:
I may be getting something in a similar condition then. :-X
Well it was only $7. I knew it was in bad condition. He had other SKCM Blue boards but they were more money. Now there in great condition thanks to Ultrasonic.
It's hit or miss. I've actually had my alps boards in good shape, and my cherry boards in bad shape. Just don't buy anything that's too expensive can be riskyDug up this photo the Taobao proxy service took. More graphic than the pictures I took even. The dirt is glued onto the slider!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o77zbjw.jpg)
That's a model M clone right? I want to get one eventually it's just too strange not to have
Yea, what's left of one. They're interesting boards for sure, the caps are rather thin though. Either pad printed or dyesubbed. I still have the caps from that board. Mine are dyesubbed,
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 22 December 2016, 13:13:23
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 22 December 2016, 13:19:08
The Model M clone I got from the same taobao seller looked quite different from yours and didn't quite fit in an normal model M case. However. it had the same strange keycaps. Mine were definitely pad printed ABS and showed it, as many of them were super shiny and had some legends worn off.Dug up this photo the Taobao proxy service took. More graphic than the pictures I took even. The dirt is glued onto the slider!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o77zbjw.jpg)
That's a model M clone right? I want to get one eventually it's just too strange not to have
Yea, what's left of one. They're interesting boards for sure, the caps are rather thin though. Either pad printed or dyesubbed. I still have the caps from that board. Mine are dyesubbed,
Post by: PollandAkuma on Thu, 22 December 2016, 22:47:55
Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board :))
Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course :p
What do you plan on using the SKCL Greens for? :)
Selling all of it. Need the money for SKCM Amber's and other stuff. I'm thinking about swapping the V60 with SKCM Blue though. Would need to take picture's of my hand wiring setup, and be careful. Then I would sell off it's SKCL Green's.
May or may not happen though.
Can't wait for your sale, I might get something if shipping allows :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 23 December 2016, 00:54:49
Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board :))
Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course :p
What do you plan on using the SKCL Greens for? :)
Selling all of it. Need the money for SKCM Amber's and other stuff. I'm thinking about swapping the V60 with SKCM Blue though. Would need to take picture's of my hand wiring setup, and be careful. Then I would sell off it's SKCL Green's.
May or may not happen though.
Can't wait for your sale, I might get something if shipping allows :p
Well it's going to be 100+ each of SKCL Green, Yellow and SKCM Blue among some other things like some MX Blue's I have laying around from a former G80-11800 swap.
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 23 December 2016, 05:28:35
Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board :))
Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course :p
What do you plan on using the SKCL Greens for? :)
Selling all of it. Need the money for SKCM Amber's and other stuff. I'm thinking about swapping the V60 with SKCM Blue though. Would need to take picture's of my hand wiring setup, and be careful. Then I would sell off it's SKCL Green's.
May or may not happen though.
Can't wait for your sale, I might get something if shipping allows :p
Well it's going to be 100+ each of SKCL Green, Yellow and SKCM Blue among some other things like some MX Blue's I have laying around from a former G80-11800 swap.
Ooh exciting! I'd love to get some more blue switches for my next build! ;D
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 23 December 2016, 07:35:57
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 24 December 2016, 04:45:56
Post by: duynguyenle on Sat, 24 December 2016, 11:47:03
Just a quick question. Which is the most affordable way to get an alps board in this day and age? I would put a new controller in an old ADB board which seems like it would be too expensive.
AEKs go for $30-50, adding in a Pro Micro (they're dirt cheap) and that's as affordable as you get really. You could also try scrouging the fleabay or local recycling centres for Dell AT101Ws, they tend to be pretty common too.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 24 December 2016, 11:48:29
Just a quick question. Which is the most affordable way to get an alps board in this day and age? I would put a new controller in an old ADB board which seems like it would be too expensive.Focus 2001, dell at101w and the apple AEK/AEKII are great places to start. all can be had for under 50$.
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 24 December 2016, 11:55:25
Post by: dante on Sat, 24 December 2016, 12:22:22
Post by: OfTheWild on Sat, 24 December 2016, 15:26:05
(http://i.imgur.com/t5SYEwa.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 24 December 2016, 15:32:57
About to build my first alps board... MiniVan w/ Salmon alps. Anything i should do before starting? Clean/lube/swap with the matias quiet clicks?If theyre already clean dont bother. As for swapping with quiet clicks, the salmons are far superior switches IMO, stick with them if theyre reasonably clean. The main determining factor in whether alps switches are good or not is the condition that they are in.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/t5SYEwa.jpg)
Also, good taste in wrist rests. I have the same one, however it is the TKL sized version.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 24 December 2016, 18:20:19
About to build my first alps board... MiniVan w/ Salmon alps. Anything i should do before starting? Clean/lube/swap with the matias quiet clicks?If theyre already clean dont bother. As for swapping with quiet clicks, the salmons are far superior switches IMO, stick with them if theyre reasonably clean. The main determining factor in whether alps switches are good or not is the condition that they are in.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/t5SYEwa.jpg)
Also, good taste in wrist rests. I have the same one, however it is the TKL sized version.
I disassembled them and cleaned them to the best of my abilities. DataVac-ed (its actually a blower, not a vacuum) the tops and bases first then used distilled water and denture tabs with tops and sliders. I think i need an ultrasonic cleaner at this rate.
Post by: OfTheWild on Sat, 24 December 2016, 19:50:23
About to build my first alps board... MiniVan w/ Salmon alps. Anything i should do before starting? Clean/lube/swap with the matias quiet clicks?If theyre already clean dont bother. As for swapping with quiet clicks, the salmons are far superior switches IMO, stick with them if theyre reasonably clean. The main determining factor in whether alps switches are good or not is the condition that they are in.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/t5SYEwa.jpg)
Also, good taste in wrist rests. I have the same one, however it is the TKL sized version.
Yeah i meant more like if i should take something from the quiet clicks and swap it into the salmons... Its not that the matias switches arent good, i just like these salmon/brown/amber ones better.
Yeah i have the 60% and the 100% pads. I do love them but i tend to catch my watch band on the corner of them and its wearing chunks out of the one at work. I considered a nice home-made wood one but I think these are perfect and i'll just keep replacing them as they wear out.
About to build my first alps board... MiniVan w/ Salmon alps. Anything i should do before starting? Clean/lube/swap with the matias quiet clicks?If theyre already clean dont bother. As for swapping with quiet clicks, the salmons are far superior switches IMO, stick with them if theyre reasonably clean. The main determining factor in whether alps switches are good or not is the condition that they are in.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/t5SYEwa.jpg)
Also, good taste in wrist rests. I have the same one, however it is the TKL sized version.
I disassembled them and cleaned them to the best of my abilities. DataVac-ed (its actually a blower, not a vacuum) the tops and bases first then used distilled water and denture tabs with tops and sliders. I think i need an ultrasonic cleaner at this rate.
Yeah they all seem to be in great condition - I decided that I was going to just use the best of the bunch and do this minivan instead of the V80. Regardless, thanks for these switches - they're awesome!
Post by: Dokyun on Sun, 25 December 2016, 12:41:04
Just a quick question. Which is the most affordable way to get an alps board in this day and age? I would put a new controller in an old ADB board which seems like it would be too expensive.
https://www.elecshopper.com/dell-at101w-keyboard.html
$25 from a trusted vendor, infinitely moddable and no need to buy a microcontroller.
Post by: OfTheWild on Sun, 25 December 2016, 13:47:59
(http://i.imgur.com/aI4KePE.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 25 December 2016, 14:06:03
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 14:07:33
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 14:10:59
Post by: OfTheWild on Sun, 25 December 2016, 14:33:14
you should be able to pop that out and epoxy it
I was toying with my lightcycle caps too and the stem is really tight on my orange alps. Need to be careful with these.
i had to go at it with a pair of pliers and awl to get it out of the switch... really really soft plastic on these. I also see that the grey "shot" did not adhere to the teal "shot" so its a VERY weak stem. I think these are a press on and leave kinda set unfortunately. :rolleyes:
Luckily i didnt use an alpha to test so i'll be ok. I'm definitely adding some lube to these caps though.
Post by: ander on Sun, 25 December 2016, 17:43:47
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:14:24
Ah, the innocence of youth... I, too, fondly remember the days before I realized buckling springs made all other switches unnecessary. (They don't have all the pretty colors, though, I'll give you that.)
Membrane or Capacitive? Membrane is pretty equal to Alps in general.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:15:47
membrane bs < cream alps = ergo clears < capacitive BSAh, the innocence of youth... I, too, fondly remember the days before I realized buckling springs made all other switches unnecessary. (They don't have all the pretty colors, though, I'll give you that.)
Membrane or Capacitive? Membrane is pretty equal to Alps in general.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:34:12
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:34:44
we both know that is a big fat liemembrane bs < cream alps = ergo clears < capacitive BSAh, the innocence of youth... I, too, fondly remember the days before I realized buckling springs made all other switches unnecessary. (They don't have all the pretty colors, though, I'll give you that.)
Membrane or Capacitive? Membrane is pretty equal to Alps in general.
topre > your ****ty ass board
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:37:22
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:37:49
kwe both know that is a big fat liemembrane bs < cream alps = ergo clears < capacitive BSAh, the innocence of youth... I, too, fondly remember the days before I realized buckling springs made all other switches unnecessary. (They don't have all the pretty colors, though, I'll give you that.)
Membrane or Capacitive? Membrane is pretty equal to Alps in general.
topre > your ****ty ass board
no
Post by: chyros on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:44:53
wut r a ass board 8)membrane bs < cream alps = ergo clears < capacitive BSAh, the innocence of youth... I, too, fondly remember the days before I realized buckling springs made all other switches unnecessary. (They don't have all the pretty colors, though, I'll give you that.)
Membrane or Capacitive? Membrane is pretty equal to Alps in general.
topre > your ****ty ass board
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 19:50:49
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 20:09:36
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 20:10:44
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 25 December 2016, 20:14:45
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 20:17:39
I tried Salmon Alps at the UK meet... I need to get me a Salmon Alps board...Yeah, salmons are really nice switches, if you dont mind the occasional upstroke click. Easily the nicest production board that comes with salmons would be the wang 725 series.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 25 December 2016, 20:34:15
Post by: PollandAkuma on Sun, 25 December 2016, 22:52:58
About to build my first alps board... MiniVan w/ Salmon alps. Anything i should do before starting? Clean/lube/swap with the matias quiet clicks?Jesus christ I need the vanShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/t5SYEwa.jpg)
Post by: PollandAkuma on Sun, 25 December 2016, 22:57:30
I tried Salmon Alps at the UK meet... I need to get me a Salmon Alps board...This is me with blues... Also, I can't seem to remember the salmon board, hmm...
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 25 December 2016, 22:58:16
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1004
My guess is they are the TaiHai APC series but I have no idea to be certain. If this is true then they are quite similar to the type OA2 clones?
Post by: OfTheWild on Mon, 26 December 2016, 07:45:52
(http://i.imgur.com/6QePwiO.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 26 December 2016, 11:17:55
Finally finished the van... It came out pretty good i think. Only 5 switch swaps to get a perfect board so thats not too bad for vintage switches. Still trying to figure all the layers on this thing.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/6QePwiO.jpg)
Lookin good! Did lubing the keycap stems help?
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 26 December 2016, 11:18:02
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 26 December 2016, 11:28:28
Post by: OfTheWild on Mon, 26 December 2016, 12:29:35
Finally finished the van... It came out pretty good i think. Only 5 switch swaps to get a perfect board so thats not too bad for vintage switches. Still trying to figure all the layers on this thing.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/6QePwiO.jpg)
Lookin good! Did lubing the keycap stems help?
Yeah it seems to prevent them from sticking. I did have to pull off a bunch of caps to take the board back apart and swap a couple more switches after realizing they were missing strokes intermittently. The GPL205 seems to do the trick. The switches are fantastic and stiffer than I expected. I am thinking after some good use they'll start to smooth out a bit. I'm thinking now that I should have probably added a dab of lube on them as well just for good measure.
As for the board, its really great. I am still working on tweaking my layers to work for what i'm used to. I really like the "arrow" setup.
(http://i.imgur.com/Do9IjOk.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 26 December 2016, 13:42:38
Opened two identical SKCM Cream Dampended's (same switchplate, same top) and found they use completely different springs. Weird :eek: One is normally the one I find and the other is much shorter with more coils. Both feel the same to me.
(http://i.imgur.com/S78fMnG.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 26 December 2016, 14:54:48
And does that mean you actually have parts to convert another linear switch to striped amber? I'd be interested in that :)
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 26 December 2016, 15:00:41
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 26 December 2016, 15:12:40
Is there any sound difference between them? I have different sets of SKCM white damped and there is difference in sound between some of them, which could of course be down just to switch condition.
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 26 December 2016, 15:28:45
Post by: chyros on Mon, 26 December 2016, 17:08:45
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 26 December 2016, 17:34:06
Interesting. How is there no difference in travel when using the same slider?Well I have 3 extra switches. 2 sliders are ruined. One has a glued stem inside it and the other has been hollowed out inside so no caps fit. The final one is fine but is missing its paint. It got rubbed off. I used that slider in the spacebar switch since it looks like a SKCL Amber, and that mean's I have one whole switch that isn't messed up, and has it's paint still.
And does that mean you actually have parts to convert another linear switch to striped amber? I'd be interested in that :)
Two 'identical' SKCM cream dampened? Are they both from the same board? Or from the same model of board? If they're from SGI Granite or AEK II, I suspect those manufactured in Ireland and those manufactured in the US have subtle differences.
All AEKII but idk if they are from the same exact board. I got them off ebay a long time ago.
The switch (back) to shorter, more tightly wound springs was one of the things they changed over the years. It shouldn't affect weight or travel significantly.
That make's sense. Just weird since shorter springs with more coils seem to be used more on linear switches like SKCL Green or Striped Amber. SKCL Yellow and heavy linear's use normal sized springs. But I do see how they just change it at will. If it is cheaper to make and feels the exact same who's gonna care?
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:30:21
(http://i.imgur.com/fK610FN.jpg)
Good thing I had extras. The Taobao Blue's are complete and 100% finished. 118 total fully tested with my multimeter. After the Taobao Green's are reassembled then it's all done :)
Post by: PollandAkuma on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:32:05
They're all dead :(Can't wait to throw my money at you :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/fK610FN.jpg)
Good thing I had extras. The Taobao Blue's are complete and 100% finished. 118 total fully tested with my multimeter. After the Taobao Green's are reassembled then it's all done :)
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:32:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:52:48
They're all dead :(Can't wait to throw my money at you :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/fK610FN.jpg)
Good thing I had extras. The Taobao Blue's are complete and 100% finished. 118 total fully tested with my multimeter. After the Taobao Green's are reassembled then it's all done :)
Cool! :) After I get my SKCL Green top housing's from E3E ill put those back together and then i'll be good. They should not take nearly as much time since all the switchplates are already in the bottom housings, and no lubing is needed.
I pretty much gave up on my taobao blues, Its not really worth the effort to me. Im holding on to the parts still though, maybe some day Ill have the urge to do them, but for now theyre gonna stay in pieces.
Yea, I've sunk hours and hours into these. The amount of work i've invested overall in all of my Taobao switches is mind-boggling. Will be nice to finally have a return on that investment.
Although if I did it again I would know to Ultrasonic them from the start, which would have saved some time.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:48:57
Post by: PollandAkuma on Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:57:28
By Taobao blues you mean alps you got off of Taobao right? :o
Post by: PollandAkuma on Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:58:08
only buy new stuff on taobao, literally everything has had a problem from there if it's used at least in my order experience of 5+ ordersI just ordered a Model M from there, pray for it :/
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 28 December 2016, 01:17:20
only buy new stuff on taobao, literally everything has had a problem from there if it's used at least in my order experience of 5+ ordersI just ordered a Model M from there, pray for it :/
Model M's are much tougher than Alps, so you should be ok. At most it's a bolt mod and you clean the membrane. No lubing, smoothess or other issues related to grime like Alps can have.
i can't find any alps from taobao, or is it just me
By Taobao blues you mean alps you got off of Taobao right? :o
Yes. They are completely cleaned, lubed and tested though. Alps can come back from pretty much anything if you give enough effort like I did. Here's how they look now:
(http://i.imgur.com/3jiPrnw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YKf6tLc.jpg)
Your typical Taobao Alps board /s
Was this used in a coal factory? The only thing thats interesting in this board is that they used both Omron's and Alps SKCL Compact in the same chassis.
(http://i.imgur.com/iLnBugD.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 28 December 2016, 02:48:50
The thing I hate is that upstroke click, which I get on many switches when reassembling them. At first i thought it's related to too much room for the click leaf, in case the top housing gets worn out, but then I disassembled and reassembled an orange switch, and I got the same click >:D And orange tactile leaf doesn't move inside the switch. From what I can tell, it turns out this sound is generated by tactile leaf being sprung out when the slider goes up, passes the leaf "hooks" and releases the leaf to hit it quickly. Why would this happen with a freshly reassembled orange switch is beyond me.
Post by: drevyek on Wed, 28 December 2016, 05:55:51
@Mattr567 nice to see you have them finished. I'm in the same boat, but I'm much more lazy, so I'm doing it like 10 switches per day :)Paper mod it to kill the click. Not enough pressure on the bottom of the switch. If you fiddle with a Matias QC leaf you can see this happen very easily.
The thing I hate is that upstroke click, which I get on many switches when reassembling them. At first i thought it's related to too much room for the click leaf, in case the top housing gets worn out, but then I disassembled and reassembled an orange switch, and I got the same click >:D And orange tactile leaf doesn't move inside the switch. From what I can tell, it turns out this sound is generated by tactile leaf being sprung out when the slider goes up, passes the leaf "hooks" and releases the leaf to hit it quickly. Why would this happen with a freshly reassembled orange switch is beyond me.
The leaves of the orange switches seemed to be perfectly fit on initial assembly. When you remove the leaves, things get slightly bent, and they may not fit in exactly (it could also be something Alps did on manufacturing the switches...). If you look at later tactile switches, there are little bumps at the bottom, to provide more force and keep the leaves tightly pressed (whether it works or not).
Post by: E3E on Wed, 28 December 2016, 09:49:02
Post by: drevyek on Thu, 29 December 2016, 07:50:53
For clicky switches, though, you may be stuck with upstroke click. Looking at how Alps clicky switches work, there may be an inherent click as the slider returns to the neutral position.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 29 December 2016, 10:04:30
Post by: E3E on Thu, 29 December 2016, 10:55:24
I have some double-sided scotch tape, so I'll try with that. There is some inherent faint ping in clicky switches, but it's quite discernible from the click that occurs on the upstroke.
The majority of the ping in SKCM Blues definitely comes from the springs, just like the older linear switches. Lube would fix that right up. I only personally lube linear springs though. The ping of clicky switches kind of blends in with click in a nice way. I hate ping on the linear varieties of Alps though, so all of mine are lubed.
Post by: PollandAkuma on Thu, 29 December 2016, 12:15:51
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 29 December 2016, 13:09:25
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 29 December 2016, 14:33:05
Some makers, such as JackHumbert of Planck, claim to have plate designs that fit both MX and Alps. I'm not sure how effective such design can be.
The simplest and minimalist way is to go Hasu's way with a cheap used AEK / AEKII, given there's no backlit LEDs or underglow but a lot of users do not mind, and it's well documented with many build logs out there, e.g.
Hasu'w own log with DIY cut plate
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69666.0
Acrylic plate
http://imgur.com/gallery/N0n8I
I do love the idea of VE.A or Duck Viper, but that's easily going to be north of $600. And I need to reconsider my concept of worth of a single keyboard before I can finally make a move like this. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 31 December 2016, 00:10:55
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222159574420
Post by: alh84001 on Sat, 31 December 2016, 03:07:46
Post by: childofthehorn on Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:14:40
Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/697be29f571da0cffa8b558b5265a72e.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/882b5798eb1673e88da7768aeffc1077.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/c9465c0fa87892ed0a952879456ed57d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/74debc06af4bbcbfb0fe52f1410eafbd.jpg)
Post by: childofthehorn on Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:15:36
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:46:54
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sat, 31 December 2016, 21:56:23
(http://i.imgur.com/jj9VhU7.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 31 December 2016, 22:33:17
My first Alps buildLooks really nice! what switches?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jj9VhU7.jpg)
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sat, 31 December 2016, 22:54:04
My first Alps buildLooks really nice! what switches?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jj9VhU7.jpg)
Matias quiet clicks (I didn't have a 'Matias' sticker :p )
Post by: ArchDill on Sat, 31 December 2016, 23:36:07
Custom Alps (Matias QC) switch true HHKB-style 60% keyboard build. Will post the file for the keyboard plate on #Thingiverse soon.
Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/697be29f571da0cffa8b558b5265a72e.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/882b5798eb1673e88da7768aeffc1077.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/c9465c0fa87892ed0a952879456ed57d.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/74debc06af4bbcbfb0fe52f1410eafbd.jpg)
Ahh glad to see someone else with an HHKB build in a Lambo case..
Post by: childofthehorn on Sun, 01 January 2017, 00:26:50
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/8662a4127472e08e87e873e959deee23.gif)
Ahh glad to see someone else with an HHKB build in a Lambo case..
Can't tell if joking or serious....
Also, need make another milled case off of my design here (first one didn't account for the plate height being higher with Alps) http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1187467
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: ArchDill on Sun, 01 January 2017, 01:45:04
Ahh glad to see someone else with an HHKB build in a Lambo case..Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/8662a4127472e08e87e873e959deee23.gif)
Can't tell if joking or serious....
Also, need make another milled case off of my design here (first one didn't account for the plate height being higher with Alps) http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1187467
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Being serious!
Mine is not Alps and I have Skeletor on it now instead of WoB.
Post by: PollandAkuma on Sun, 01 January 2017, 10:15:57
Custom Alps (Matias QC) switch true HHKB-style 60% keyboard build. Will post the file for the keyboard plate on #Thingiverse soon.Blue Sadster???
Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/697be29f571da0cffa8b558b5265a72e.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/882b5798eb1673e88da7768aeffc1077.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/c9465c0fa87892ed0a952879456ed57d.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/74debc06af4bbcbfb0fe52f1410eafbd.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 10:18:29
A novelty from the alpine winter set.Custom Alps (Matias QC) switch true HHKB-style 60% keyboard build. Will post the file for the keyboard plate on #Thingiverse soon.Blue Sadster???
Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers.Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/697be29f571da0cffa8b558b5265a72e.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/882b5798eb1673e88da7768aeffc1077.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/c9465c0fa87892ed0a952879456ed57d.jpg)Show Image(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/74debc06af4bbcbfb0fe52f1410eafbd.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:47:34
Normal switchplate:
(http://i.imgur.com/ikzZHSt.jpg1)
Rainbow switchplate:
(http://i.imgur.com/AV3hqQE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dnE6FQz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kMlY2Zm.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:48:36
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 18:03:32
hey guys! appreciate this!
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5lhzxk/skcm_brown_alps_vea_build_mont_blanc_level/
Wow, nice man. Gotta clean those AEK caps though! :eek:
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 18:12:35
Post by: chyros on Sun, 01 January 2017, 19:32:38
Very interesting to see that some of these early black switchplates have heated treated metal contacts. These samples come from SKCL Greens from a IBM Multistation with a 1984 date stamp. It is possible that some of these switches were made in 1983, which is the first production year of the SKCL/SKCM series.Nice, that's a cool find! :) It's fun to see how so many older keyboards had heat-treated parts and they gradually ALL got phased out xD . Isn't it the contact foil though, rather than the terminal?
Normal switchplate:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ikzZHSt.jpg1)
Rainbow switchplate:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AV3hqQE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dnE6FQz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kMlY2Zm.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 19:49:52
Very interesting to see that some of these early black switchplates have heated treated metal contacts. These samples come from SKCL Greens from a IBM Multistation with a 1984 date stamp. It is possible that some of these switches were made in 1983, which is the first production year of the SKCL/SKCM series.Nice, that's a cool find! :) It's fun to see how so many older keyboards had heat-treated parts and they gradually ALL got phased out xD . Isn't it the contact foil though, rather than the terminal?
Normal switchplate:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ikzZHSt.jpg1)
Rainbow switchplate:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AV3hqQE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dnE6FQz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kMlY2Zm.jpg)
Thats what I meant :p
I wonder if this is a feature of SKCCs since they mainly used black switchplates.
So only super early (1983?) SKCL's have rainbow switchplates, and around 1984 they switched to normal plates and not too soon after that they switched to the much more common Grey plates.
Post by: klennkellon on Mon, 02 January 2017, 02:43:55
Post by: chyros on Mon, 02 January 2017, 03:54:23
Does anyone know of a common and cheap dome-with-slider that is Alps mount? I just need a cheap Alps set, anything will do.Alps dws, Acer dws, Matsu****a dws, Tulip dws, Monterey dws, Scorpius dws (some)...
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 02 January 2017, 04:54:06
hey guys! appreciate this!
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5lhzxk/skcm_brown_alps_vea_build_mont_blanc_level/
My dream build..!
And thanks for the build log with so many tiny tips, it is going to be very helpful guide for building an Alps VE.A.
Wait... you have a lathe??! :eek: You can make so many cool things with a lathe, please make good use of it.
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 02 January 2017, 05:11:32
Very interesting to see that some of these early black switchplates have heated treated metal contacts. These samples come from SKCL Greens from a IBM Multistation with a 1984 date stamp. It is possible that some of these switches were made in 1983, which is the first production year of the SKCL/SKCM series.
Normal switchplate:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ikzZHSt.jpg1)
Rainbow switchplate:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AV3hqQE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dnE6FQz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/kMlY2Zm.jpg)
What are good about heat-treated metal for switch components?
I just know that metal work, e.g. razors 60+ years ago from Sheffield, Eskilstuna, Solingen, Japan etc are of much higher qualities than those created nowadays.
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 02 January 2017, 11:53:47
Does anyone know of a common and cheap dome-with-slider that is Alps mount? I just need a cheap Alps set, anything will do.Alps dws, Acer dws, Matsu****a dws, Tulip dws, Monterey dws, Scorpius dws (some)...
One thing you have to worry about is stabilizers. They aren't necessarily the conventional type.
For example, the ones on the Acer 6511 I took apart are more like Model M stabilizers-- hook on the plate, stabilizer wire attached to cap-- than Alps boards.
Probably the premium dome-with-slider choice is *SOME* Apple Design keyboards-- ALPS-mount, dyesub PBT caps, in a more or less conventional 103-with-stepped-lock-key layout. Note not ALL ADKs are ALPS mount; there were 3 or 4 suppliers.
Post by: nastrovje on Thu, 05 January 2017, 19:12:46
They both feel the same. What am I doing wrong? Why are people going crazy about blue but disregard white?
I have read that the difference comes from late white alps being worse but in this case I dont seem to notice anything.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 05 January 2017, 23:50:23
So I was able to try an omnikey101 with white alps and an 102 with blue alps.
They both feel the same. What am I doing wrong? Why are people going crazy about blue but disregard white?
I have read that the difference comes from late white alps being worse but in this case I dont seem to notice anything.
The Omnikey chassis makes a lot of switches feel a lot better than they usually are.
Also those switches might need to be cleaned. They are better, I know this for sure. Between my FK-3001 and Packard Bell.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 06 January 2017, 04:17:40
Post by: iwantatrophy on Fri, 06 January 2017, 10:14:56
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 10:29:23
Post by: chyros on Fri, 06 January 2017, 10:37:39
Post by: iwantatrophy on Fri, 06 January 2017, 11:16:56
A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.
someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.
No to every question
Well ****.
Thanks for the reply though.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 11:36:38
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 12:09:10
Post by: iwantatrophy on Fri, 06 January 2017, 12:18:58
Actually, thats not true at all. SMK montereys fit in cherry plates. Im currently working on a project that utilizes that.
I thought the pins were different.
Do you have some progress pics?
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 13:41:44
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 06 January 2017, 17:25:41
Yeah, the pins are different, but the switches clip into the plate just fine. Its a hand wired project, more of a proof of concept than anything fancy. for that reason I havent taken any photos.
SMK are the ones with three pins on the bottom correct? If you're handwiring, which two pins do you need to use?
Post by: chyros on Fri, 06 January 2017, 17:40:37
No, SMKs have a two-pin pinout. You may be thinking of Omrons.Yeah, the pins are different, but the switches clip into the plate just fine. Its a hand wired project, more of a proof of concept than anything fancy. for that reason I havent taken any photos.
SMK are the ones with three pins on the bottom correct? If you're handwiring, which two pins do you need to use?
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 18:48:14
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 19:33:49
Did anyone else notice that were on page 100? :)Impressive! this thread has always been active, so it was only a matter of time. This must be the most active thread with the fewest participants on the site!
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 06 January 2017, 23:38:38
Post by: MperorM on Sat, 07 January 2017, 05:37:52
Post by: chyros on Sat, 07 January 2017, 06:49:48
Don't worry. When I get my first alps board in a few days, there'll be one more convert. Slowly but surely, alps shall conquer the market.Alps will conquer everything. Hmmm. Excellent. *twiddles fingers*
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 07 January 2017, 12:56:06
A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.
someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.
No to every question
Well ****.
Thanks for the reply though.
Incompatibility is perhaps good news for SMK (whole) keyboards collectors though.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 14:05:14
unfortunately, most whole SMK boards are rather badly built, so you're better off desoldering them. example: chicony kb-5181 and 5191A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.
someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.
No to every question
Well ****.
Thanks for the reply though.
Incompatibility is perhaps good news for SMK (whole) keyboards collectors though.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 07 January 2017, 19:10:44
[/spoiler]A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.
someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.
No to every question
Well ****.
Thanks for the reply though.
Incompatibility is perhaps good news for SMK (whole) keyboards collectors though.
unfortunately, most whole SMK boards are rather badly built, so you're better off desoldering them. example: chicony kb-5181 and 5191
Really.
We should stop these (the existence of these products) from happening at the stage when they were still in the factory or the R&D department.
All half-assed products (in terms of design or build) should not be allowed to be produced.
They are just a waste of resources, and will be bad for the countries that manufacture them and the consumers who buy them.
Being extra critical to improve a design at its R&D stage, especially when the design is from people who can mass produce lots of crap, is actually trying to be green and be nice to mother planet earth.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 19:56:56
SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:24:17
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.
SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)
So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:30:17
(http://i.imgur.com/YMKVhWN.jpg)
I have one more plate that I plan on using for my Mira prototype and then the steel plate from the Orion will go into another TKL I build with an Alphas PCB in the future. My two babies with hotswappable PCBs will have the carbon.
Thanks Angelo. :D
Post by: chyros on Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:31:44
All half-assed products (in terms of design or build) should not be allowed to be produced.This would halt >99.9% of all keyboard production in the entire world :p . Arguably the entirety of it xD .
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:38:43
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:41:52
Just upgraded my Orion's plate to carbon fiber with a special touch. ;DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/YMKVhWN.jpg)
I have one more plate that I plan on using for my Mira prototype and then the steel plate from the Orion will go into another TKL I build with an Alphas PCB in the future. My two babies with hotswappable PCBs will have the carbon.
Thanks Angelo. :D
Looks really good, thanks also to Yutski for the plate file. Perfect username for the cutout.
It's like a cool company logo for E3E.
Which is more difficult to cut by the way? Carbon fibre or stainless steel? And which is more pleasant to use?
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:44:51
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.
SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)
So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?
No, I got one that was absolutely destroyed and used it for parts.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:51:00
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.
SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)
So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?
No, I got one that was absolutely destroyed and used it for parts.
Let it re-live in your V60 then. Peace!
I really like the battleship (Model M / F), but because I can't stand the echoing ping noise, I can only accept its Alps and rubber-dome or other switches counterparts, e.g. the 5556 which has even 1 more F-key row than the Northgate OmniKey Ultra.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 21:58:42
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.
SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)
So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?
No, I got one that was absolutely destroyed and used it for parts.
Let it re-live in your V60 then. Peace!
I really like the battleship (Model M / F), but because I can't stand the echoing ping noise, I can only accept its Alps and rubber-dome or other switches counterparts, e.g. the 5556 which has even 1 more F-key row than the Northgate OmniKey Ultra.
I love ping and echo. Sounds badass when typing, makes it sound like real work is getting done.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 21:59:42
Post by: E3E on Sat, 07 January 2017, 22:47:25
Just upgraded my Orion's plate to carbon fiber with a special touch. ;DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/YMKVhWN.jpg)
I have one more plate that I plan on using for my Mira prototype and then the steel plate from the Orion will go into another TKL I build with an Alphas PCB in the future. My two babies with hotswappable PCBs will have the carbon.
Thanks Angelo. :D
Looks really good, thanks also to Yutski for the plate file. Perfect username for the cutout.
It's like a cool company logo for E3E.
Which is more difficult to cut by the way? Carbon fibre or stainless steel? And which is more pleasant to use?
Steel for sure is the easier one to GET cut, thanks to the wonderful lasergist. I had to contact a waterjet cutter for this and we ran into a lot of delamination issues. Router CNC machines are best for carbon fiber, we learned.
Unlike the plates I used for my two Duck Eagle-based builds with the Hammer and FMJ cases, which were 1.5mm, this plate was thinner and seemed to match the thickness of the Orion's steel Alps plate.
I'd say the carbon fiber definitely feels more pleasant, both in sound and feel compared to steel and the 1.5mm CF. The thicker stuff is too rigid, but I think this is just right. I had this carbon fiber laid up custom from Composite Envisions. It's called Blue Mirage, which is pretty much a blend of carbon fiber and copper strands that were colored blue. The effect isn't as mesmerising as it looks on their website, but it's still pretty neat.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 07 January 2017, 23:45:20
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 08 January 2017, 00:18:24
Let it re-live in your V60 then. Peace!
Oh yea here is a picture of it ''reliving" was even using SKCL Green at this point like the original did.
(http://i.imgur.com/cs7wzCr.jpg)
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Sun, 08 January 2017, 08:52:36
So I need 8 SKCM Whites, anyone? Will pay.
If you still need 'em by the end of the week, shoot me a pm, I'm tearing into a fk-2001 with a bad controller and i can spare you a numpad portion of switches, i'll work with you on the price
And just to make sure you need clicky whites?
Post by: Dokyun on Sun, 08 January 2017, 12:02:11
A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.
There was a monterey custom at the /r/mk Seattle meetup yesterday:
[attach=1]
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 08 January 2017, 13:50:05
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 09 January 2017, 21:54:14
BTW I'm selling an Alps-mount Monterey SMK board if anyone is interested.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 10 January 2017, 22:24:33
(http://i.imgur.com/iGJEI46.jpg?1)
After a thorough cleaning in the ultra sonic cleaner for both sets, they were ready to be played with. :D
I first put them on my Orion v2, but the angle on the board is such that the spherical caps are too high to be comfortable.
(http://i.imgur.com/gC0em4R.jpg)
I was just playing around with them on the Orion.
After that, I placed one on a DocuTech, and I realized that these caps are like a match made in heaven for Alps SKCM Green and likely SKCM Brown too. They just really blend well with the tactile feedback and weight of those unique switches.
So I slapped the entire set (as much as I could) on my Xerox 6085. I picked the 6085 with pine SKCM Greens because it was the "different" out of my other Xerox boards since it's technically not a docutech.
It looks and feels great.
(http://i.imgur.com/GIMObbq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eSxhvOT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XFicBLY.jpg)
If I can get a converter made for the Xerox boards, this would be a daily driver for sure.
Post by: MperorM on Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:17:27
However, I am not able to easily remove a keycap. I tried using one of the cheap and small keycap pullers, and even when I was using much more force than I would on a normal cherry mx keyboard, I was not able to remove a keycap. I was afraid of pulling with more force than that, since I don't want to break it for some stupid reason. Is this normal for alp stems, or is there something obvious I am missing?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:19:16
Post by: MperorM on Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:26:43
Post by: chyros on Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:36:24
I don't own a wirepuller, can I do it with a normal one, or will I risk damaging the stems? I can order one fairly cheaply from china, it's just gonna take a month for it to arrive. I would prefer replacing my keycaps right away.You can do it with ring pullers, but it's not as easy and they might wear out. Shouldn't damage the caps, though.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:39:55
Post by: MperorM on Thu, 12 January 2017, 09:32:13
I tried to pull a cap that had stabilizers off, however I almost destroyed it in the process. I had to put the stabilizer parts back in with a pair of tweezers. [attachimg=1] Very happy with the result :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 12 January 2017, 20:46:39
Then going to pick up a new spherical Alps set for it, thanks Canon :p Too bad its not the big AP one that had either SKCM/SKCL or plate spring, but the caps are the same! It uses Alps integrated dome.
(http://i.imgur.com/9mrgUZg.jpg)
(the slider came with it when the guy pulled the cap)
(http://i.imgur.com/SZceBWu.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 13 January 2017, 09:17:15
First, I would like a somewhat lighter switch and the heaviness of the Brown Alps is mainly due to the tactile leaf rather than the return spring. Second, I like a subtle click for additional auditory feedback.
I have done some preliminary experiments with various combinations of sliders, springs, and click leaves. The worst result included a Matias slider and Matias click leaf -- this produced a very loud click. With a Blue slider, spring, and click leaf the result was fairly good, but I got occasional clicks on the return stroke as well as on the down stroke. The most satisfactory result thus far was obtained by keeping all the Brown components except for a White click leaf.
Based on these initial tests, I think the simplest (and perhaps the best) way to go is to keep all the original parts except the tactile leaf and replace this with a click leaf from another type of Alps switch or clone. I am looking for recommendations for which click leaf to use: Blue, White, or Matias Click. However, if anyone has tried swapping additional components with good results, I would be interested in knowing what you found.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 09:31:21
On that last point, I wonder if a day will come when someone click-mods SKCM Green :))
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 16:35:29
(http://i.imgur.com/xSTV0tP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6xPIiiy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/g6FfEbT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LRp2jJc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/R41snaN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iVBBJFB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XeWFFKS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xnmV5Ri.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 13 January 2017, 16:39:55
If you remove the springs, click leaves and sliders could it be considered an SKCM mod any more? So, I would definitely stay with just swapping the click leaf. Just for the fun of it, you could try it with click-modded orange or salmon leaves.
On that last point, I wonder if a day will come when someone click-mods SKCM Green :))
Haha. I was tempted to do this, but I didn't dare snip a leaf on any of my switches, mainly because they all go to whole keyboards. If they were individual switches, I would have tried it--like Chyros did.
Chyros found that you cannot click mod the switches. It has no effect, likely because of the weird shape of the tactile leaf that's more like a ramp of tactility rather than a very distinct point, so it probably doesn't cause the leaf to really snap backwards at any point. Getting that unique tactile sensation + clickiness is beyond our reach it seems. Well, aside from speaker clickers. :P
I also tried using SPRiT's lightest springs in SKCM Green and, while it did lighten the force to a degree, it didn't help much. There's not much you can do to lighten the load that SKCM Brown and Green puts on your fingers, I'd say.
Haata described this with how he measured Topre. I forget how he stated it, but it's like... your finger has to do more work--it's constantly battling the force of that ramped curve as opposed to one tactile point, so it puts more force against your fingers. I remember it couldn't be measured simply. It's like work over time or something? Chyros, Hypersphere, or XMIT could probably elucidate on this more than I can.
Being that they're metal and not rubber, that's probably why they feel a significant bit stiffer than Topre.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:06:37
Although the tactile "leaf" (tactile assembly) in SMCM Brown Alps switches is a very different design from the actual click leaves in SKCM Blue or White Alps or Matias Click switches, I've found that you can swap out the tactile assembly in SKCM Brown Alps with a click leaf from one of the other clicky switches and get a clicky Brown Alps switch.
However, I am still undecided about which of the swappable components (swappable in a non-desoldered switch) to use in order to convert Brown Alps to something closely resembling the sound and feel of SMCM Blue Alps.
I am typing on Brown Alps now, and although I appreciate the strong and precise tactility, these switches can be fatiguing.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:17:14
@E3E: When you say, "Chyros found that you cannot click mod the switches" I presume you talking about SKCM Green Alps and not SKCM Brown Alps.
Although the tactile "leaf" (tactile assembly) in SMCM Brown Alps switches is a very different design from the actual click leaves in SKCM Blue or White Alps or Matias Click switches, I've found that you can swap out the tactile assembly in SKCM Brown Alps with a click leaf from one of the other clicky switches and get a clicky Brown Alps switch.
However, I am still undecided about which of the swappable components (swappable in a non-desoldered switch) to use in order to convert Brown Alps to something closely resembling the sound and feel of SMCM Blue Alps.
I am typing on Brown Alps now, and although I appreciate the strong and precise tactility, these switches can be fatiguing.
Oh, yes, yes. I was talking about SKCM Green because it does have a simple metal leaf as opposed to the two part plastic plate/leaf spring assembly that SKCM Brown has. Usually when I hear of someone click modding something, I think that they mean snipping the legs off of a tactile leaf to make it clicky.
Swapping in click leaves from clicky switches should work just fine. The browns don't have a flat surface like most other switch tops do for the click leaf to slap against, but I don't see that really changing anything.
If you want to get an SKCM Blue feel out of SKCM Brown, I'd suggest just using blue click leaves. If you're trying to look for something similar but without having to use blue leaves, then I'd say use SKCM White leaves.
I soldered in SKCM White switches on a Xerox 6085 that I received in parts from MAR82 to send to Wingpad for testing, and I was very surprised at how nice it felt. It could be the chassis, but I had to pull out a vintage SKCM Blue board to compare because I was surprised at how nice the switches felt.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:33:18
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:42:16
Yes, I certainly agree that SKCM White Alps in excellent condition (and in the "pine" generation rather than the "bamboo" era) in the right chassis can be superb. At present, my favorite Alps board with respect to sound and feel is an early model Northgate Omnikey 101 with SKCM White Alps.
Presumably, the plastic used in later generations of SKCM Alps sliders is inherently more slippery than the plastic used in the earlier model switches, so to avoid trying to replicate the dry lubrication used in the earlier switches, it might be good to use sliders from White Alps.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:45:07
Post by: ShawnMeg on Fri, 13 January 2017, 18:06:08
Oh, yes, yes. I was talking about SKCM Green because it does have a simple metal leaf as opposed to the two part plastic plate/leaf spring assembly that SKCM Brown has. Usually when I hear of someone click modding something, I think that they mean snipping the legs off of a tactile leaf to make it clicky.
Swapping in click leaves from clicky switches should work just fine. The browns don't have a flat surface like most other switch tops do for the click leaf to slap against, but I don't see that really changing anything.
If you want to get an SKCM Blue feel out of SKCM Brown, I'd suggest just using blue click leaves. If you're trying to look for something similar but without having to use blue leaves, then I'd say use SKCM White leaves.
I soldered in SKCM White switches on a Xerox 6085 that I received in parts from MAR82 to send to Wingpad for testing, and I was very surprised at how nice it felt. It could be the chassis, but I had to pull out a vintage SKCM Blue board to compare because I was surprised at how nice the switches felt.
The two ALPs tactile boards that I click modded, rather than snipping the leaves, I simply used a flat head screwdriver to flatten the legs. Both of the boards have a subtle, quiet click. This mod is potentially reversible. The only other SKCM ALPs that I have to compare were SKCM Whites from a previously owned Northgate Omnikey. The click was certainly louder. I also had a board with simplified ALPs clones (alps.tw Type OA2), and the click on these were louder as well.
I'm currently using an AEK 2 with Salmons that I left stock and particularly enjoy.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 13 January 2017, 18:53:55
Thanks. Flattening the legs on a tactile leaf might not be reversible owing to metal fatigue.
Oh, yes, yes. I was talking about SKCM Green because it does have a simple metal leaf as opposed to the two part plastic plate/leaf spring assembly that SKCM Brown has. Usually when I hear of someone click modding something, I think that they mean snipping the legs off of a tactile leaf to make it clicky.
Swapping in click leaves from clicky switches should work just fine. The browns don't have a flat surface like most other switch tops do for the click leaf to slap against, but I don't see that really changing anything.
If you want to get an SKCM Blue feel out of SKCM Brown, I'd suggest just using blue click leaves. If you're trying to look for something similar but without having to use blue leaves, then I'd say use SKCM White leaves.
I soldered in SKCM White switches on a Xerox 6085 that I received in parts from MAR82 to send to Wingpad for testing, and I was very surprised at how nice it felt. It could be the chassis, but I had to pull out a vintage SKCM Blue board to compare because I was surprised at how nice the switches felt.
The two ALPs tactile boards that I click modded, rather than snipping the leaves, I simply used a flat head screwdriver to flatten the legs. Both of the boards have a subtle, quiet click. This mod is potentially reversible. The only other SKCM ALPs that I have to compare were SKCM Whites from a previously owned Northgate Omnikey. The click was certainly louder. I also had a board with simplified ALPs clones (alps.tw Type OA2), and the click on these were louder as well.
I'm currently using an AEK 2 with Salmons that I left stock and particularly enjoy.
(Attachment Link)
Flatteing or clipping legs will not work with SKCM Brown Alps, which do not have a tactile leaf as such. Instead, they have a tactile assembly that is a modified switchplate as shown in the DT wiki:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_Brown
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 22:12:48
Hint:
(http://i.imgur.com/ue55bwJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oYhKkHJ.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 01:24:10
Finished. Thread to come.
Hint:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ue55bwJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oYhKkHJ.jpg)
Personally, I'd think it'd be best to use the WoB caps for the mods and keep the Canon caps to alpha numerical keys for a more well-rounded look. It's a shame there's no full spherical ANSI sets for Alps. I hope to change this by sculpting some mods, though they're going to be in the profile of the PBT C Itoh caps first.
These caps don't look as deeply scooped as the Multistation caps. Please do a close comparison yourself to tell me if this is true or not, but the Multistation caps have an almost diamond-like scoop that you can feel and see, especially on the homing keys.
I'm not seeing that with these.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 14 January 2017, 02:17:54
I know what you mean, but imo I would like to use as many spherical caps as possible. Plus it cuts down on the profiles clashing.Finished. Thread to come.
Hint:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ue55bwJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oYhKkHJ.jpg)
Personally, I'd think it'd be best to use the WoB caps for the mods and keep the Canon caps to alpha numerical keys for a more well-rounded look. It's a shame there's no full spherical ANSI sets for Alps. I hope to change this by sculpting some mods, though they're going to be in the profile of the PBT C Itoh caps first.
These caps don't look as deeply scooped as the Multistation caps. Please do a close comparison yourself to tell me if this is true or not, but the Multistation caps have an almost diamond-like scoop that you can feel and see, especially on the homing keys.
I'm not seeing that with these.
Take a look at my thread, I made a comparison there. It's definitely not the same profile. The homing keys on these aren't any different than the other caps, no extra scooping or bar/nubs. Comparing them I would have to agree with you. The Canon caps still have some scoop but not as much as the Multistation caps.
Here is a profile comparison. The Canon caps are more steeply angled like I mentioned earlier.
Bottom row (Z etc)
(http://i.imgur.com/YMZHUd6.jpg)
Middle row (A etc)
(http://i.imgur.com/UBvfvAD.jpg)
Top row (tilde etc)
(http://i.imgur.com/5ttJBfu.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 02:49:37
I know what you mean, but imo I would like to use as many spherical caps as possible. Plus it cuts down on the profiles clashing.Finished. Thread to come.
Hint:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ue55bwJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oYhKkHJ.jpg)
Personally, I'd think it'd be best to use the WoB caps for the mods and keep the Canon caps to alpha numerical keys for a more well-rounded look. It's a shame there's no full spherical ANSI sets for Alps. I hope to change this by sculpting some mods, though they're going to be in the profile of the PBT C Itoh caps first.
These caps don't look as deeply scooped as the Multistation caps. Please do a close comparison yourself to tell me if this is true or not, but the Multistation caps have an almost diamond-like scoop that you can feel and see, especially on the homing keys.
I'm not seeing that with these.
Take a look at my thread, I made a comparison there. It's definitely not the same profile. The homing keys on these aren't any different than the other caps, no extra scooping or bar/nubs. Comparing them I would have to agree with you. The Canon caps still have some scoop but not as much as the Multistation caps.
Here is a profile comparison. The Canon caps are more steeply angled like I mentioned earlier.
Bottom row (Z etc)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YMZHUd6.jpg)
Middle row (A etc)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UBvfvAD.jpg)
Top row (tilde etc)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5ttJBfu.jpg)
It's interesting that there were so many different cap profiles for Alps, I mean in sphericals alone, or spherical-like, we have the Multistation, Canon, CIE/C.Itoh, ICL One Per Desk, Yamaha MSX, Bondwell, and Panasonic Electronic Typing Station caps as far as I know, with many of them being completely different profiles.
The ICL caps are hi pro but rather flat with incredibly shallow scooping. The Bondwell caps are definitely the same profile as the Panasonic's, which is uniform and practically flat.
The Yamaha MSX computers have so many variations, even some in Arabic and Cyrillic. I have no idea if they're standard in terms of sculpted profile among all of the variations or not. The Arabic one on eBay lately reminded me of the ICL caps. Hi pro but flat looking.
Then of course we have the Multistation. Sculpted alphanum grid and mods, but everything else is uniform. Unique profile. Deeply scooped. Even deeper homing keys.
Then the Canon typewriter caps. Sculpted hi pro with a unique profile, no homing scoops, and shallower scooping than the Multistation's caps.
The CIE Terminals/C.Itoh sphericals seem to be the only PBT set out there, with all others being ABS doubleshots. Sculpted hi pro, but also with a unique profile that has a less swept back top row than other hi pro caps. Deep dish homing keys. Scooping is not as deep as the multistation, but not as shallow as the ICL One Per Desk caps.
If I had to describe it, the C.Itoh scooping is gentle, but pleasant. The homing scoops are as deep as the Multistation's normal scooping, which is to say that the Multistations are crazy scooped!
• I'd say the C.Itoh caps go best with SKCM Browns and Greens, but they also felt nice on the SKCL Striped Ambers I played with. Overall, PBT is best with tactile switches from my experience
• The Hi Pro ABS caps go really well with SKCM Ambers and I'd say they'd also go well with linears too. I'd say cylindrical caps overall go better on your ordinary clicky switches like SKCM Blue and White.
I feel like the deeper scooping really focuses the feel of the switch onto your finger tips as well, which is great for some switches.
I also want to say that I did not like the ICL One Per Desk caps much in terms of feel. They look great, but high profile key caps without much of a scoop at all feel pretty... Underwhelming.
Post by: PollandAkuma on Sat, 14 January 2017, 03:06:14
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 04:06:43
Does changing springs in Blue alps change the weight of it? Or does the force to get the click stay the same :/
Yep, the only switches that aren't very affected by lighter springs are SKCM Brown and Green. Amber has a biting tactility, but I've never tested with those.
Of course the click leaf does add about 10g weight. The springs in SKCM Blue I measured at 55g to bottom out but 65g with the leaf.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 14 January 2017, 12:14:07
It's interesting that there were so many different cap profiles for Alps, I mean in sphericals alone, or spherical-like, we have the Multistation, Canon, CIE/C.Itoh, ICL One Per Desk, Yamaha MSX, Bondwell, and Panasonic Electronic Typing Station caps as far as I know, with many of them being completely different profiles.
The ICL caps are hi pro but rather flat with incredibly shallow scooping. The Bondwell caps are definitely the same profile as the Panasonic's, which is uniform and practically flat.
The Yamaha MSX computers have so many variations, even some in Arabic and Cyrillic. I have no idea if they're standard in terms of sculpted profile among all of the variations or not. The Arabic one on eBay lately reminded me of the ICL caps. Hi pro but flat looking.
Then of course we have the Multistation. Sculpted alphanum grid and mods, but everything else is uniform. Unique profile. Deeply scooped. Even deeper homing keys.
Then the Canon typewriter caps. Sculpted hi pro with a unique profile, no homing scoops, and shallower scooping than the Multistation's caps.
The CIE Terminals/C.Itoh sphericals seem to be the only PBT set out there, with all others being ABS doubleshots. Sculpted hi pro, but also with a unique profile that has a less swept back top row than other hi pro caps. Deep dish homing keys. Scooping is not as deep as the multistation, but not as shallow as the ICL One Per Desk caps.
If I had to describe it, the C.Itoh scooping is gentle, but pleasant. The homing scoops are as deep as the Multistation's normal scooping, which is to say that the Multistations are crazy scooped!
• I'd say the C.Itoh caps go best with SKCM Browns and Greens, but they also felt nice on the SKCL Striped Ambers I played with. Overall, PBT is best with tactile switches from my experience
• The Hi Pro ABS caps go really well with SKCM Ambers and I'd say they'd also go well with linears too. I'd say cylindrical caps overall go better on your ordinary clicky switches like SKCM Blue and White.
I feel like the deeper scooping really focuses the feel of the switch onto your finger tips as well, which is great for some switches.
I also want to say that I did not like the ICL One Per Desk caps much in terms of feel. They look great, but high profile key caps without much of a scoop at all feel pretty... Underwhelming.
Interesting. How do the Multistations feel on SKCM Brown/Green? I'd imagine they are still a great combo. HiPro caps seem to go well on heavier switches that have a higher tactility.
Comparing the Multistation and Canon caps on SKCM Amber I do prefer the Canons. They may not be as scooped but feel thicker and deeper than the Multistations. Possibly because there is more plastic between you and the switches b/c of the increased angle.
Also to note SKCM Ambers seem to do best in modern keyboards. The Focus really didn't do it justice. Between the build quality and plate thickness/material i'm not sure. SKCM Ambers lend themselves to 60%'s anyway since they come in 62 key batches.
Also b/c of this the multistation caps are not in use, idk what to use them on now. The one thing i've always looked at is that the set would fit super well on the Ortek MCK-84. You can use the right shift and ISO enter. The only caps that would not fit would be the backspace and most of the bottom row.
Post by: dante on Sat, 14 January 2017, 12:40:52
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 13:54:12
Speaking of keycaps are DSA the lowest profile caps you can get for Alps? If yes, what would be 2nd place?
Here are the lowest profile caps I know of for Alps:
(http://i.imgur.com/knI69vL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/sHuqv1M.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/daL2ukk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NIjSxSI.jpg)
The Y key is the vintage flat/incredibly shallow-scooped uniform profile, the black key is PBT DSA for the Infinity keyboard, and the 8 key is uniform cylindrical Alps profile. All keys in these profiles are uniform, meaning that there is no per-row sculpting.
Post by: dante on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:02:34
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:16:27
could you take a picture from underneath? Also what vintage boards did you get those caps from?I believe that the spherical cap is from a vintage bondwell laptop, and the cylindrical cap is from another old laptop. If youre interested, I have a set of the cylindrical uniform profile caps, but you would need DSA mods as its a weird ass layout.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:19:25
could you take a picture from underneath? Also what vintage boards did you get those caps from?
Sure. I've included some more examples of the uniform cylindrical profile as well:
(http://i.imgur.com/u2ratPJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/olY2yoT.jpg)
from left to right
Top: DSA Infinity Alps PBT, Bondwell PRO 8T (ABS)
Bottom: Xerox 6085/DocuTech STOP key (ABS), Sharp PA 1000 doubleshot ABS, Sharp PA 1000 alternate version, Unknown Chinese laptop/phone board (PBT), Xerox 6085/Docutech function column keys (PBT).
The Chinese board has only been seen in PCB form so I have no idea what it came from.
Also note that the DocuTech and 6085 only use this profile for the left-hand function column and nothing else.
Post by: dante on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:25:29
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:31:13
(http://i.imgur.com/RjNBaPc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tG0IC7f.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9T6TEJq.jpg)
(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:49:44
I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RjNBaPc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tG0IC7f.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9T6TEJq.jpg)
(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)
I remember this profile, that (which is a believe a TI keyboard w/ SKCM Brown?) uses it and the AT&T PC 7300 also uses that profile, and also happens to use SKCM Brown.
could you take a picture from underneath? Also what vintage boards did you get those caps from?
Sure. I've included some more examples of the uniform cylindrical profile as well:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/u2ratPJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/olY2yoT.jpg)
from left to right
Top: DSA Infinity Alps PBT, Bondwell PRO 8T (ABS)
Bottom: Xerox 6085/DocuTech STOP key (ABS), Sharp PA 1000 doubleshot ABS, Sharp PA 1000 alternate version, Unknown Chinese laptop/phone board (PBT), Xerox 6085/Docutech function column keys (PBT).
The Chinese board has only been seen in PCB form so I have no idea what it came from.
Also note that the DocuTech and 6085 only use this profile for the left-hand function column and nothing else.
Some of the Multistation caps are also very low, these blank caps especially.
(http://i.imgur.com/Xigd69A.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XcK2Hed.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:58:14
Yeah, the Multistation key caps are a high sculpted profile for the main "60%" grid, but everything else on that 122 key beast is uniform low profile, if I remember correctly.
(http://i.imgur.com/Izei5Si.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MYvTgLP.jpg)
Here are comparison pics for those too. :)
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 14 January 2017, 15:00:01
(http://oldcomputers.net/pics/att-unix-pc-left.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 15:07:02
The low profile caps of AT&T PC 7300 look real nice too:Show Image(http://oldcomputers.net/pics/att-unix-pc-left.jpg)
The link is broken. D:
(http://i.imgur.com/WRb4mXC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KbWBDyc.jpg)
This should work. Weird.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 14 January 2017, 17:13:06
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 14 January 2017, 17:15:17
I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken. It intrigues me where all the tooling for these caps with now 'exotic' profiles have gone.I can get you a profile shot of these caps, I have them on my 60% right now. they are awesome caps, with brown doubleshot lettering and the strangest homing bumps ive ever seen.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RjNBaPc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tG0IC7f.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9T6TEJq.jpg)
(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 14 January 2017, 17:53:50
I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken. It intrigues me where all the tooling for these caps with now 'exotic' profiles have gone.I can get you a profile shot of these caps, I have them on my 60% right now. they are awesome caps, with brown doubleshot lettering and the strangest homing bumps ive ever seen.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RjNBaPc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tG0IC7f.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9T6TEJq.jpg)
(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)
Yes please. These nice caps need to be shown to the world, despite this is just an Alps enthusiasts self-pleasuring thread.
We are now at an age of high-quantity production boring key cap profiles, even the best-selling SA are clearly not as great as the older incarnations on Beamsprings and Space-cadet etc. And there are not many other options in both low and normal profiles.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 January 2017, 18:41:53
I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken. It intrigues me where all the tooling for these caps with now 'exotic' profiles have gone.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RjNBaPc.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tG0IC7f.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/9T6TEJq.jpg)
(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)
Forgot about those pictures I took :D
That board was cool, glad I was able to grab one for my VE.A build. :) Pays to be a proxy :p :p
Yeah, shame I didn't get pinged to proxy it, since half of my SKCM Browns went missing. :( :P
Post by: E3E on Sun, 15 January 2017, 16:13:44
(http://i.imgur.com/i9aLXaD.jpg)
Just finished retrobrighting the Xerox 6085 for Wingpad to use to hopefully make a converter for the Xerox boards. Thanks also to MAR82 for the parts and to HouseofSuffering for lending me the Mouse Trak trackball so we can get some thorough testing down. It's been a long time coming. I was also lucky to get the detachable cable for these since this one did not come with one.
I can thank the eBay seller I got the SKCM Green 6085 from for that. He had a ton of left over Xerox OSD stuff.
The board also has SKCM Whites in it since the original was scrapped for its switches (SKCM Brown) and I put an SKCL Yellow in the Caps Lock position with an orange LED for good measure. :P
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 15 January 2017, 16:59:36
Post by: E3E on Sun, 15 January 2017, 17:10:45
french?
AZERTY indeed, my friend. Lol. Yeah, the only one I've seen that is too. The grumpy ebay seller had a few French Canadian layouts that are like a hybrid between this and QWERTY.
Should still be fine to test with. This thing was well used too. A lot of the caps are shined up.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 15 January 2017, 18:49:53
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 15 January 2017, 19:12:04
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 16 January 2017, 11:55:13
Apparently, some SKCM Alps switches had some kind of dry lube applied to the sliders at the factory. This has been reported for Blue, Brown, Orange, and early-model White Alps. Later White Alps sliders were presumably made with a more slippery plastic that did not require lubrication.
So, if you can find Blue, Brown, Orange, or White Alps in pristine condition, it would probably be better not to clean or lube the switches.
If the switches are not pristine and require cleaning, then cleaning alone should be fine for later-model White Alps.
However, if you clean Blue, Brown, Orange, or early-model White Alps, it might be good to lube the sliders. Several people have warned against using non-dry lube (oils or greases). This leaves dry lubes, such as molybdenum disulfide or PTFE. Any recommendations on how to apply dry lubes to sliders to ensure bonding of the lube to the plastic and to ensure that the lube is applied evenly?
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 16 January 2017, 12:56:19
Alps switches: To Lube or Not to Lube?
Apparently, some SKCM Alps switches had some kind of dry lube applied to the sliders at the factory. This has been reported for Blue, Brown, Orange, and early-model White Alps. Later White Alps sliders were presumably made with a more slippery plastic that did not require lubrication.
So, if you can find Blue, Brown, Orange, or White Alps in pristine condition, it would probably be better not to clean or lube the switches.
If the switches are not pristine and require cleaning, then cleaning alone should be fine for later-model White Alps.
However, if you clean Blue, Brown, Orange, or early-model White Alps, it might be good to lube the sliders. Several people have warned against using non-dry lube (oils or greases). This leaves dry lubes, such as molybdenum disulfide or PTFE. Any recommendations on how to apply dry lubes to sliders to ensure bonding of the lube to the plastic and to ensure that the lube is applied evenly?
Yes the early ones did. All first gen switches had lube.
I always clean all my switches i'm going to use no matter what. Air can't hurt them and dust removal is always a good thing.
I lubed the Taobao Blue switches since they were in a horrible way. It really is a last resort. After they were ultrasonic'd (including the slider which removes the lube) I used some Dupont Teflon Silicone Lube. Applied using a q-tip, putting on the sides of the slider. I did see a noticeable improvement. It takes a couple days for the lube to dry which is when it really takes effect.
I did not ultrasonic the Taobao Green sliders since they were fine. Only the tops of those were ultrasonic'd. I did lube the slider wells however since the top housings had some permanent damage. Noticeable gains were made after the lube had dried. The only reason I did the Blue sliders is because they were gritty and the only way to fix that was to ultrasonic which also takes away the lube.
Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 16 January 2017, 13:07:25
Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 16 January 2017, 13:30:58
Chyros, it seems that the only Alps switches that fall into your hands are in pristine condition! ;)Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 16 January 2017, 15:34:36
Everything else has been just fine for me. I'm probably going to ultrasonic the SKCL Striped Amber tops before I put them to use, but I'm also heavily against cleaning the sliders, even if they came from a dirty board. I've never seen sliders sticky with dirt or anything that just couldn't be dusted or wiped off. I once took some SKCM Blues from a TaoBao condition board (that is, junked, junkyard stuff), caked with dust in the top housing, and put the slider in a clean housing and it felt fine again.
I personally feel that the largest contributor to feel and smoothness is the top housing, but because the older sliders relied on dry lube, I would not wash them. This makes me curious to try new sliders in old gen switches. Like younger SKCM White sliders in SKCM Blue housings.
One thing I'd like to note is that SKCM Green (I forget if it's just pines or bamboo) has a tendency to squeak from the friction of the slider against the tactile leaf. I've never had any SKCM Browns do this. It really doesn't impart a feeling of scratchiness, but I even got a commenter on one of my videos noting how their SKCM Greens have the same sound. I like comparing it to the Topre squeak. :P
Annoyingly, he didn't respond to my question about his SKCM Greens, lol.
I've lubed the leaves and the sliders before and it hasn't cut down on it. Makes me wonder what's causing it and if the slick plastic is smoother than the sliders with dry lube from the factory or not. Now that I think about it, I should try putting an SKCM Brown slider in a SKCM Green housing and vise versa to see what I can deduce.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 16 January 2017, 16:45:07
Either pristine or unsalvageably bad, yeah that's actually fairly accurate xD .Chyros, it seems that the only Alps switches that fall into your hands are in pristine condition! ;)Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 16 January 2017, 17:20:21
<snip>Yes, I agree that the top housing is quite important, at least as a partial determinant of the sound of an Alps switch. I first noticed this with my current favorite chassis for Alps, the Northgate Omnikey 101. I had restored one of these that I liked very much. I thought I would save myself the trouble of extensive cleaning and refurbishing by finding one of these boards in what I would imagine to be Chyros-approved pristine condition. When I did so, I found that I didn't like the sound at all -- it was rattly compared to the older, originally dirtier Northgate. As far as I could determine, the difference was that the older board had the Pine (slits) top housings, whereas the newer board had the Bamboo (no slits) top housings.
<snip>
I personally feel that the largest contributor to feel and smoothness is the top housing, but because the older sliders relied on dry lube, I would not wash them. This makes me curious to try new sliders in old gen switches. Like younger SKCM White sliders in SKCM Blue housings.
<snip>
<snip>
<snip>
I've also been tempted to try later-model White Alps sliders in other types of Alps switches, because presumably the later-model White Alps sliders are made of a slipperier plastic that does not require additional lubrication. However, I've noticed subtle differences in the construction of White Alps sliders compared to, say, Blue Alps sliders. The spring peg in the White Alps sliders appears to be a bit thicker and longer than the spring peg in Blue Alps sliders.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 16 January 2017, 20:15:18
Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.
Well, cleaning isnt always needed if they are perfect but I like to clean my switches even if there is a little dust inside them. Can't hurt really.
<snip>Yes, I agree that the top housing is quite important, at least as a partial determinant of the sound of an Alps switch. I first noticed this with my current favorite chassis for Alps, the Northgate Omnikey 101. I had restored one of these that I liked very much. I thought I would save myself the trouble of extensive cleaning and refurbishing by finding one of these boards in what I would imagine to be Chyros-approved pristine condition. When I did so, I found that I didn't like the sound at all -- it was rattly compared to the older, originally dirtier Northgate. As far as I could determine, the difference was that the older board had the Pine (slits) top housings, whereas the newer board had the Bamboo (no slits) top housings.
<snip>
I personally feel that the largest contributor to feel and smoothness is the top housing, but because the older sliders relied on dry lube, I would not wash them. This makes me curious to try new sliders in old gen switches. Like younger SKCM White sliders in SKCM Blue housings.
<snip>
<snip>
<snip>
I've also been tempted to try later-model White Alps sliders in other types of Alps switches, because presumably the later-model White Alps sliders are made of a slipperier plastic that does not require additional lubrication. However, I've noticed subtle differences in the construction of White Alps sliders compared to, say, Blue Alps sliders. The spring peg in the White Alps sliders appears to be a bit thicker and longer than the spring peg in Blue Alps sliders.
Yea. Lubing and ultrasonic should be a last resort. Doing the switch tops on bad switches however usually solves the problem :)
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 16 January 2017, 21:21:04
If lack of lubricant is a concern, the sliders could be lubed again or replaced with recent-generation White sliders that have inherently high lubricity. To me, relubing is the controversial part because I am not sure what lube was applied at the factory or how it was done.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 17:33:10
(http://i.imgur.com/wLxQ0Mp.jpg)
Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.
Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:
(http://i.imgur.com/64ecGQp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Yrkay3w.jpg?1)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 19 January 2017, 18:04:37
Smexy :p No more tree logo!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLxQ0Mp.jpg)
Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.
Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/64ecGQp.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Yrkay3w.jpg?1)
Ahh, something I'm actually not familiar with. What is that? The red bit showing through the switch?
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 18:28:17
some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.Smexy :p No more tree logo!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLxQ0Mp.jpg)
Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.
Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/64ecGQp.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Yrkay3w.jpg?1)
Ahh, something I'm actually not familiar with. What is that? The red bit showing through the switch?
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 18:32:46
Post by: E3E on Thu, 19 January 2017, 18:33:21
some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.
Oh, I see. Interesting. Seems like it might've been to protect the plastic from deformation during the soldering process if there's too much heat.
That's one thing I've never seen before!
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 18:51:50
I had that on some of my SKCM/SKCL switches, can't remember which exactly, but I think they were blues.
Any pics?
some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.
Any pics? I've only ever seen it red on SKCC switches. Never on SKCL/SKCM.
some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.
Oh, I see. Interesting. Seems like it might've been to protect the plastic from deformation during the soldering process if there's too much heat.
That's one thing I've never seen before!
Thats a really good point actually. I thought it was supposed to keep the switchplate in place when they are loose during assembly or something like that. Made it easier to put back together when I was cleaning them up :p
Me neither. They are ONLY on the LED switches too. They have grey plates so they aren't the oldest SKCL ever but the SKCL Cream spacebar had a black switchplate. XT so its gonna be early either way ('84-'85?)
Post by: chyros on Thu, 19 January 2017, 19:04:29
Smexy :p No more tree logo!I had been wondering about this for a while, so does the black XT badge fit the ZKB-2 perfectly then? Did you sand off the original lettering and stuck the XT badge on, or did you do something different with it? It looks gorgeous, I might try and do it as well!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLxQ0Mp.jpg)
Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.
Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/64ecGQp.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Yrkay3w.jpg?1)
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 20:25:33
Smexy :p No more tree logo!I had been wondering about this for a while, so does the black XT badge fit the ZKB-2 perfectly then? Did you sand off the original lettering and stuck the XT badge on, or did you do something different with it? It looks gorgeous, I might try and do it as well!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLxQ0Mp.jpg)
Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.
Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/64ecGQp.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Yrkay3w.jpg?1)
It fits perfectly. Its the exact size as the ZKB-2 (or 163-73 in my case).
Since its not actually a ZKB-2 the logo doesn't come off so it makes it easier. The original fixed tree logo is simply glued on, so I pried it off and super glued it in place. Pretty easy. Its the same thickness as the original as well so it looks factory. The black XT logo is actually metal while the newer tree logo is plastic too.
You will have a harder time with a ZKB-2 since the logo clips in and such. I was able to ditch the old one entirely! The surface it goes on is smooth plastic and recessed.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 20:51:36
Replaced switchplate and its good :thumb:
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 20:59:21
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 19 January 2017, 21:23:50
50 Million > 20 MillionA SKCM Amber just failed on the V60 for no reason. Lol why tho ??
Replaced switchplate and its good :thumb:
because it's not cherry
Cherry < Alps
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 19 January 2017, 21:54:12
Post by: E3E on Fri, 20 January 2017, 03:08:52
With Cherry, doing that to try and avoid damaging the contacts can change the feel especially if you go from vintage to modern.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 20 January 2017, 04:25:41
Ah, I see, that makes sense. Noice!Smexy :p No more tree logo!I had been wondering about this for a while, so does the black XT badge fit the ZKB-2 perfectly then? Did you sand off the original lettering and stuck the XT badge on, or did you do something different with it? It looks gorgeous, I might try and do it as well!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLxQ0Mp.jpg)
Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.
Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/64ecGQp.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Yrkay3w.jpg?1)
It fits perfectly. Its the exact size as the ZKB-2 (or 163-73 in my case).
Since its not actually a ZKB-2 the logo doesn't come off so it makes it easier. The original fixed tree logo is simply glued on, so I pried it off and super glued it in place. Pretty easy. Its the same thickness as the original as well so it looks factory. The black XT logo is actually metal while the newer tree logo is plastic too.
You will have a harder time with a ZKB-2 since the logo clips in and such. I was able to ditch the old one entirely! The surface it goes on is smooth plastic and recessed.
Hah....50 Million > 20 MillionA SKCM Amber just failed on the V60 for no reason. Lol why tho ??
Replaced switchplate and its good :thumb:
because it's not cherry
Cherry < Alps
you'll never hit 20 million, so that's invalid.
Cherry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alps
Hahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Post by: rm-rf on Fri, 20 January 2017, 04:45:21
Ah, I see, that makes sense. Noice!Smexy :p No more tree logo!I had been wondering about this for a while, so does the black XT badge fit the ZKB-2 perfectly then? Did you sand off the original lettering and stuck the XT badge on, or did you do something different with it? It looks gorgeous, I might try and do it as well!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLxQ0Mp.jpg)
Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.
Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/64ecGQp.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Yrkay3w.jpg?1)
It fits perfectly. Its the exact size as the ZKB-2 (or 163-73 in my case).
Since its not actually a ZKB-2 the logo doesn't come off so it makes it easier. The original fixed tree logo is simply glued on, so I pried it off and super glued it in place. Pretty easy. Its the same thickness as the original as well so it looks factory. The black XT logo is actually metal while the newer tree logo is plastic too.
You will have a harder time with a ZKB-2 since the logo clips in and such. I was able to ditch the old one entirely! The surface it goes on is smooth plastic and recessed.Hah....50 Million > 20 MillionA SKCM Amber just failed on the V60 for no reason. Lol why tho ??
Replaced switchplate and its good :thumb:
because it's not cherry
Cherry < Alps
you'll never hit 20 million, so that's invalid.
Cherry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alps
Hahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
cherry < topralps
(http://i.imgur.com/TTbdg0X.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 20 January 2017, 04:54:37
Post by: E3E on Fri, 20 January 2017, 04:57:42
(http://i.imgur.com/t13zIPa.jpg)
I was just about to post these. Thanks to Mattr for the trade. Traded some SKCM Browns and some SKCM Creams for these Chinese IBM Multistation caps. Well, some of them here are Chinese.
The Chinese caps have blue legends on the alphas. I put them in the WASD cluster for fun just for now.
This is pretty much just a mock up for how I ultimately want to set up my Mira.
I'll need one more set of Multistation caps to top off the F-row profile since both MattR and I have incomplete sets that were unfortunately missing keys of that profile.
I think maybe Canon typewriter caps could fill in on some spots, but they might be too dark. They'd be easier to get at least.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 20 January 2017, 05:45:08
cherry < topralpsIn fact, browsing through my list of keyboards,Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TTbdg0X.jpg)
Cherry < Alps
Cherry < Topre
Cherry < Space Invaders (all of them)
Cherry < Montereys
Cherry < buckling springs
Cherry < Acers
Cherry < Honeywells
Cherry < Fujitsus
Cherry < some of the better rubber domes
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 20 January 2017, 07:14:57
Cherry < Alps
Cherry < Topre
Cherry < Space Invaders (all of them)
Cherry < Montereys
Cherry < buckling springs
Cherry < Acers
Cherry < Honeywells
Cherry < Fujitsus
Cherry < some of the better rubber domes
Jailhouse green and blue, and ergo clear are not bad.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 20 January 2017, 08:40:08
Post by: chyros on Fri, 20 January 2017, 09:03:31
I prefer G80-5000 to the SKCM browns, but they aren't quite the same category, so it's just what I think.Obviously layouts have nothing to do with the actual switches, so that's a pretty moot point. And all this is subjective, of course, you're free to prefer Cherry. But Fujitsus are not generally heavy, they're quite light in fact, and so much better designed than Cherries. And not just Topre, I'd consider quite a lot of good non-capacitive rubber domes better than tactile Cherry switches, because at least good rubber domes are actually tactile whereas the tactility in Cherry switches is very weak and unclean. I'd say MX browns are possibly the worst of a bad bunch, though blacks are quite terrible as well. Shame you don't like clicky switches; I'd say MX blues are by far the best in the MX range.
I never could find an Alps linear board that wasn't in **** shape, and I don't feel like looking, so there aren't any kits really for me to use, and all the old layouts suck.
Fujitsu, honeywell aren't better than Cherry linears, I have both and the one is too damn heavy, the other one has a **** layout
Cherry is less than 'better' rubber domes? You're trying to piss me off :)) :))
Buckling springs are better than Cherry blue, but clicky switches suck
Topre isn't really even mechanical, and if it's the better rubber dome, you're still trying to piss me off :confused: :confused:
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 20 January 2017, 09:18:57
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 20 January 2017, 09:45:57
but practically speaking, they will last in the same condition from normal use vs alps which in the hands of a random person will become crappy.
Although this is probably true in general, I have an original Dell AT101W that I got with a Dell system in the late 1990s and used regularly for several years, plenty enough to shine the caps. It has been stored in a clean indoor environment ever since, but not "hermetically sealed" by any means, and it still feels very good.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 20 January 2017, 09:59:28
Personal preference is personal preference. However, Einstein was once asked if there was such a thing as objective reality. He replied, "Yes, I believe so." In such an objective reality, I like to think that Cherry mx is ranked the lowest of all keyboard switches, with the possible exception of some of the linear switches found in ancient terminal keyboards.I prefer G80-5000 to the SKCM browns, but they aren't quite the same category, so it's just what I think.Obviously layouts have nothing to do with the actual switches, so that's a pretty moot point. And all this is subjective, of course, you're free to prefer Cherry. But Fujitsus are not generally heavy, they're quite light in fact, and so much better designed than Cherries. And not just Topre, I'd consider quite a lot of good non-capacitive rubber domes better than tactile Cherry switches, because at least good rubber domes are actually tactile whereas the tactility in Cherry switches is very weak and unclean. I'd say MX browns are possibly the worst of a bad bunch, though blacks are quite terrible as well. Shame you don't like clicky switches; I'd say MX blues are by far the best in the MX range.
I never could find an Alps linear board that wasn't in **** shape, and I don't feel like looking, so there aren't any kits really for me to use, and all the old layouts suck.
Fujitsu, honeywell aren't better than Cherry linears, I have both and the one is too damn heavy, the other one has a **** layout
Cherry is less than 'better' rubber domes? You're trying to piss me off :)) :))
Buckling springs are better than Cherry blue, but clicky switches suck
Topre isn't really even mechanical, and if it's the better rubber dome, you're still trying to piss me off :confused: :confused:
Having said this, I am influenced by form factor and layout -- my favorites are 60% and HHKB. Because of this, I own a custom 60% HHKB layout with a glass fiber case and Gateron Yellow switches, which I find much smoother than contemporary Cherry mx Red or Black and with a spring weight in between these two that I find ideal.
Although I generally prefer tactile/clicky to linear, Cherry mx and its clones are inherently linear, and they tend to do a bad job at their attempts to be tactile and/or clicky, so with these switches, I like to go with what they do best and opt for their purely linear varieties. If I were to choose a tactile/clicky mx switch, it would be Cherry or Gateron Green.
Apart from the occasional excursion into Cherry mx and clones, my overall favorite switches remain IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F), Topre 45g, and various Alps (especially SKCM White or Blue).
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 20 January 2017, 10:05:29
Post by: dante on Fri, 20 January 2017, 10:09:01
Cherry < Alps
Cherry < Topre
Cherry < Space Invaders (all of them)
Cherry < Montereys
Cherry < buckling springs
Cherry < Acers
Cherry < Honeywells
Cherry < Fujitsus
Cherry < some of the better rubber domes
Jailhouse green and blue, and ergo clear are not bad.
Jailhouse Milk is also good.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 20 January 2017, 11:56:21
Yes, their vulnerability to dirt and are Alps' biggest weakness. But that's not what people usually base their idea of keyfeel on. Just like you don't let a bottle of wine turn to vinegar before you assess its taste. Also, Cherries really don't feel all THAT similar - so many people have reported tales of blacks getting beter and blues going worse, for example.
but practically speaking, they will last in the same condition from normal use vs alps which in the hands of a random person will become crappy.
Although this is probably true in general, I have an original Dell AT101W that I got with a Dell system in the late 1990s and used regularly for several years, plenty enough to shine the caps. It has been stored in a clean indoor environment ever since, but not "hermetically sealed" by any means, and it still feels very good.
you're a keyboard enthusiast. I am saying if you search for one today, all the cherry boards of the same part number i.e. all the G80-1800HPU boards are going to be about the same feeling, while all the alps boards of a certain part number will not.
Post by: need on Fri, 20 January 2017, 12:23:40
My typing style is not hitting each stroke separately, but connecting all characters of a single word in one fluid motion.
Alps is just sluggish, in both down stroke and up stroke. The worst that I've tried is black Alps in this regard. With the heavier springs weights that they have in comparison to Cherry's, you'd think they are more responsive. Unfortunately no... They really aren't any better than Cherry from the same period. (It's unfair to compare vintage Alps to modern Cherry)
All that being said, I still love Alps for being what they are. Just can't make Alps as my daily board, as my productivity will decrease hugely.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 20 January 2017, 14:11:20
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 20 January 2017, 16:11:21
I don't have so much experience with keyboards - my first keyboard was the chiclet keyboard of a laptop. And then quickly I had the choice of using many keyboards in various laboratories in a university campus, my favorite was the SGI Granite keyboard and followed closely by an IBM KB-8923 (a quiet and smooth but quite tactile rubber dome), I tried a few times to understand why there is a cult of IBM model M and even owned one (M13) for a few years, treated it like a piece of art but never got use to its something... huge keyboard size? key cap texture? its key feel? its assertive mechanical click?
Fast forward to recently, I heard using a mechanical keyboard is the new black - they must be something real good I thought, was pretty much ignorant about the mechanisms of key switches except the buckling springs and the rubber dome. However, when I tried them in a store the first time, the Cherry browns, blues, and reds..., "the key feels of these are pretty much XXXX, do people like them nowadays?!"
Cherry browns are unforgivably the worst, it's like hitting a bump while driving, the tactility is not at the top and pretty much after the key press is linear in action, and then the tactile bump is unclear. Blues have better tactility but its still has the problem of browns while not as bad, (and Greens seem even better) but I don't like them being clicky. Reds are just too light, too weak and too easy to bottom out even for a person who came from rubber dome. I have tried MX Clears, they are much better than blues and browns, but there's still slightly the problem I mentioned - its tactility not at the very top. I have yet to try a whole board with Ergo-clear or Zealios which I acquired some.
I like Gateron blacks, I didn't know I could learn to appreciate linear switches at all, they are really smooth, quite smoother than the new Cherry blacks I have.
Cherry switches are not that bad, at least they are 'easy' to type, so that they are better than many simplified Alps.
Tactile and clicky Alps switches has a harsher key feel, it feels like you really need to push them. The 'complicated' SKCMs are smooth and much better than the simplified ones. The simplified white Alps I tried are like worst and more difficult version of Cherry browns, i.e. larger grains of sand in the switches and closer to the top of keystroke. It feels good when a switch can let the user "ease into the tactile bump" during a key press instead of just presenting a bump.
I have yet to say what are the best tactile Alps for me, but judging from the force curves, it seems SKCM browns and SKCM neon greens will be ideal, but their curve is also similar to Topre's force curve.
SKCM (complicated) Alps > better Cherry e.g. Zealios/ErgoClears >> other tactile/clicky Cherry > simplified Alps
Gateron blacks >= SKCL greens > Cherry blacks
Have yet to try many other kinds of vintage and modern switches mentioned (perhaps I tried some but didn't notice).
Post by: smithyithy on Fri, 20 January 2017, 16:21:01
Fitted them to my KBP V60 this evening. Holy crap, how bloody tight are these Matias caps.. Honestly thought I was going to break some switches, not looking forward to taking them all off again when/if I get Alpine Winter.
Anyway, enough talking, more clacking:
(http://i.imgur.com/JqO5RPT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7Ih5w9M.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rV0LQFo.jpg)
Feel much nicer to type on and the legend/cap colour combo makes typing in dim light much easier. V. happy. Ciao!
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 20 January 2017, 16:31:44
Thought I'd share this here. My TaiHao Dolch arrived today from Aus - shoutout to u/ayybasketballs.The KBP V60MTS-C is a fun board. It really lets you know that you are typing!
Fitted them to my KBP V60 this evening. Holy crap, how bloody tight are these Matias caps.. Honestly thought I was going to break some switches, not looking forward to taking them all off again when/if I get Alpine Winter.
Anyway, enough talking, more clacking:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JqO5RPT.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7Ih5w9M.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/rV0LQFo.jpg)
Feel much nicer to type on and the legend/cap colour combo makes typing in dim light much easier. V. happy. Ciao!
The super-tight fit of the Matias caps is scary, however. The Tai-Hao caps are also fairly tight. I've put dye-sub PBT caps from an IBM 5140 on the alphanumeric keys; these caps fit nicely and are much easier to remove than the originals.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 20 January 2017, 18:19:11
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 20 January 2017, 19:22:59
Was thinking about selling my modded omnikey, but I just cant bring myself to do it.
Northgate Omnikey 101 is the endgame Alps keyboard for anybody who prefers straight-ANSI layout.
I have 2: one with excellent blue Alps and one with modded like-new "faux-orange" (long story). Alps keyboards simply don't get any better than that.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 20 January 2017, 19:25:03
Was thinking about selling my modded omnikey, but I just cant bring myself to do it. I really love this board. Forgot how good it was :-\ If anyone really wants it, let me know.
The one that is full ANSI with the ivory switches I sold you? USDA prime keyboard right there.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 20 January 2017, 19:26:37
Yeah, I love mine. The ridiculously overbuilt nature of the case gives the switches (in this case, SKCM cream) a spectacular feel. It even rivals my all alu Kustom in weight, which isnt an easy thing to achieve. My only real issue with the board is the center stem caps lock, which makes finding keysets hard. I currently have SGI granite on it, sans the caps lock.
Was thinking about selling my modded omnikey, but I just cant bring myself to do it.
Northgate Omnikey 101 is the endgame Alps keyboard for anybody who prefers straight-ANSI layout.
I have 2: one with excellent blue Alps and one with modded like-new "faux-orange" (long story). Alps keyboards simply don't get any better than that.
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 20 January 2017, 19:27:03
mhmmWas thinking about selling my modded omnikey, but I just cant bring myself to do it. I really love this board. Forgot how good it was :-\ If anyone really wants it, let me know.
The one that is full ANSI with the ivory switches I sold you? USDA prime keyboard right there.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 20 January 2017, 19:51:32
To sum it up, Alp users regularly **** on Cherry users and Cherry users regularly **** on Alps users. That's how it is. :P
You have a lot of Cherry guys making very naive assumptions about Alps to justify staying away from them (sometimes it's subjective and fine). You have Alps guys hating on Cherry.
I'm personally just smitten with Alps and that affects my opinion of other switches. I like the short, snappy throw, the look, feel, the uniqueness and variety of Alps, and the very wide array of cap selections once you start digging deeper. Aesthetically, I find them to look industrial but elegant. Nice Japanese design.
Post by: need on Fri, 20 January 2017, 20:55:43
Aesthetically, I find them to look industrial but elegant. Nice Japanese design.
Funnily enough in the traditional sense, Japanese aesthetic isn't about being industrial. The Germans on the other hand have everything to with being industrial. :)) After all it's the Germans who fuelled the industrialisation of consumer products in the early 20th century.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 20 January 2017, 21:01:43
Aesthetically, I find them to look industrial but elegant. Nice Japanese design.
Funnily enough in the traditional sense, Japanese aesthetic isn't about being industrial. The Germans on the other hand have everything to with being industrial. :)) After all it's the Germans who fuelled the industrialisation of consumer products in the early 20th century.
That makes sense. What would you say the Japanese aesthetic is about? Elegance, simplicity, complexity; something else entirely? Curious on your thoughts. Yeah, Germans definitely scream industrial to me. I feel like Alps -look- more industrial, but Cherry switches definitely seem more reliable in industrial environments.
Judging by how complex Alps is, I'd say complexity is one aspect, haha.
Post by: need on Fri, 20 January 2017, 23:15:46
Aesthetically, I find them to look industrial but elegant. Nice Japanese design.
Funnily enough in the traditional sense, Japanese aesthetic isn't about being industrial. The Germans on the other hand have everything to with being industrial. :)) After all it's the Germans who fuelled the industrialisation of consumer products in the early 20th century.
That makes sense. What would you say the Japanese aesthetic is about? Elegance, simplicity, complexity; something else entirely? Curious on your thoughts. Yeah, Germans definitely scream industrial to me. I feel like Alps -look- more industrial, but Cherry switches definitely seem more reliable in industrial environments.
Judging by how complex Alps is, I'd say complexity is one aspect, haha.
Simplicity is definitely one. The concept of Zen Buddism or "nothingness" is being reflected in so many aspects of their culture. They take pleasure and comfort from even the smallest mundane things. They are scarily polite with their speech. They don’t want to get into too much trouble and get on with their daily routine, etc. This repetitive way of life may seem industrial and “mechanical”, but what they believe is that it’s the small things where greatness lies (Yin and Yang / Kanji). They do the same old stuff over and over again, what you get at the end is something very refined and most importantly special. In their professional life, lineage is a common value. No one gets successful overnight, and apart from practicing, they need to have mentors (senpei) who will pass on something valuably special to them. Even to this modern day there’s still a lot of “artisans” ^-^ around in many different industries. For example many people who work in the construction industry are basically artisans, they take pride in their work. That’s what makes their buildings so meticulously crafted, even those in the urban environment. A lot of wood joiners and glasses hand-makers still exist (the wearer take comfort from the warmness emitted by the material). They are highly respected people and you can always certainly can trace back to their many generations of previous mentors who have had influenced them. Although they are like a popular star, you just can’t perceive them as an individual. It’s a continuous and complex process.
“Japanese style” is so apparent even when you look back at their art from very long time ago. Ukiyo-e as an art genre has some of the most boring looking paintings, many of which are daily scenes that looked mundane, but then again - the wisdom lies within the smallest things…Their main meal is the equivalent of delicacy in many other cultures. Sushi (it’s always rice…they don’t like change do they?), sashimi (raw fish that seemingly unprepared…), yet from eating those they feel full and most importantly content. Lightness is a reoccurring theme that’s so apparent in their architecture, their want something structurally unobtrusive, hence you see homes that are basically boxy frames. They are highly flexible by calling pulling paper curtains as their walls, and the transparency helps them in feeling like being a part of nature. These don’t really apply anymore in the contemporary setting, after all it’s the irrelevances that makes Tokyo special. As we know many lead a soul crushingly isolated lifestyle, fuelled by the natureless environment I guess :confused:. Overall, I believe it’s their complexity within their simplicity, that makes them so elegant.
Germans is generally much bolder in the actions that they make. Heavy weighted, more dramatic, rigorously mechanical while having some really bold innovations/revolutions here and there. Despite the differences, both traditional German and Japanese cultures seem to value nature highly to the point of having a spiritual place in their life.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 00:45:18
I know others are going to find this so I thought I would post it here :-\
(http://i.imgur.com/xx5AFnA.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 21 January 2017, 00:56:58
[...]
Germans is generally much bolder in the actions that they make. Heavy weighted, more dramatic, rigorously mechanical while having some really bold innovations/revolutions here and there. Despite the differences, both traditional German and Japanese cultures seem to value nature highly to the point of having a spiritual place in their life.
This was a fantastic read. That makes a lot of sense considering the different traditional crafts of Japan like swordsmithing and urushi laquerware techniques among many other things like the various kind of papercrafts I've seen coming from Japan. I forget their names. Not just origami. There's also that lovely concept of perfection in imperfection. I really like that one. All this makes me appreciate Alps even more. You can see some of that attention to detail in their switches and keyboards. Also tons of cap families too, haha.
It's interesting to hear about these design philosophies. I feel like you can see them in both Cherry and Alps (as well as Topre, of course), same with the American design aesthetic for IBM.
Lol wtf, this guy from South Korea is selling 184 'cleaned' SKCM Blue's with a starting bid of only $20 with $20 shipping :eek: http://www.ebay.com/itm/282333242851
I know others are going to find this so I thought I would post it here :-\Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xx5AFnA.jpg)
Gawd, this is not going to end well. I need 101 more blue alps for a board I want to restore, but I don't have much hope of getting them for the time being, haha. I mean, I have boards I could salvage them from, but there's no reason to do that, and it'd defeat the purpose. Hmm.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 21 January 2017, 04:48:10
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 13:29:03
(http://i.imgur.com/mVLVumI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/V4y91bS.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 14:12:25
And this is why I always clean my Alps switches or at least check then. Eww.Were those some of the SKCM creams that you bought from mandrewdavis? because I think I have the cap set that came off those switches. Looks like someone spilled milk (or well... you know) all over them. Gross!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mVLVumI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V4y91bS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LqSQJU9.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 14:27:28
And this is why I always clean my Alps switches or at least check then. Eww.Were those some of the SKCM creams that you bought from mandrewdavis? because I think I have the cap set that came off those switches. Looks like someone spilled milk (or well... you know) all over them. Gross!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mVLVumI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V4y91bS.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LqSQJU9.jpg)
Yea, I got them through E3E.
That one was the worst. The rest are fine, just a bit on the housings.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 21 January 2017, 15:27:53
And this is why I always clean my Alps switches or at least check then. Eww.Were those some of the SKCM creams that you bought from mandrewdavis? because I think I have the cap set that came off those switches. Looks like someone spilled milk (or well... you know) all over them. Gross!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mVLVumI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V4y91bS.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LqSQJU9.jpg)
Yea, I got them through E3E.
That one was the worst. The rest are fine, just a bit on the housings.
Ahh yes that once guy on eBay who sold me all of his broken NeXT keyboards. I in turn, harvested and sold a total of four boards worth of switches to Mike and E3E. There was one with a fairly isolated spill but it didn't seem to effect the feel and after desoldering ~400 switches with bent pins I just didn't have the energy to clean them. Just dug out the offending plate from my garage.
(http://i.imgur.com/vC8ChuO.jpg)
Also, does anyone know what kind of switches would be in a Microterm 5510 keyboard?
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 15:33:42
Also accidentally got a SKCM Cream Dampened in the bag of SKCM Creams, oops. Will get another one, just a mix up. Interesting to note about this switch is that it is a rather early one, as well as being in perfect condition. No Alps logo and a black top housing. Comparison:
(http://i.imgur.com/7wrBYQG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LzVES6a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dDG9lF4.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 15:48:18
(http://i.imgur.com/ee7U33c.jpg)
I am going to sell this board, I really dont have a use for a 2nd 60%. If anyone wants it, PM me. It has SKCL Green switches modded with SKCM white tops and SKCM blue click leaves.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 15:51:56
Someone spilled some drink on it probably.If youre a bit short, I can send you a few SKCM creams, I have about 5 boards worth :0
Also accidentally got a SKCM Cream Dampened in the bag of SKCM Creams, oops. Will get another one, just a mix up. Interesting to note about this switch is that it is a rather early one, as well as being in perfect condition. No Alps logo and a black top housing. Comparison:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7wrBYQG.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LzVES6a.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dDG9lF4.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 21 January 2017, 16:15:05
And this is why I always clean my Alps switches or at least check then. Eww.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mVLVumI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V4y91bS.jpg)
So how are you liking/what are your impressions on the SKCM Browns?
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 18:40:17
And this is why I always clean my Alps switches or at least check then. Eww.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/mVLVumI.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/V4y91bS.jpg)
So how are you liking/what are your impressions on the SKCM Browns?
Just finished putting the board back together. Typing on it now.
They are very nice indeed. Very smooth and rounded feel. The SKCM Creams match very well. The SGI is a perfect fit for them PBT caps and all too. Although I'm not quite done with it yet ;)
The SKCL Green is where the missing SKCM Cream should go.
(http://i.imgur.com/4ZnE0PA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8MlD7q0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OCrIU5h.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nXkJrqv.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 18:41:23
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 18:54:27
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 21 January 2017, 21:45:56
Its ok, noone appreciates you eitherHoly **** man, that was brutal.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 21 January 2017, 21:46:45
haha its just for the jokesIts ok, noone appreciates you eitherHoly **** man, that was brutal.
Post by: happylacquer on Sun, 22 January 2017, 02:04:51
Post by: StormyMonday on Sun, 22 January 2017, 04:41:08
Found an AEK2 at my parents house! wow. I am about to desolder and remove all the switches. What is the cheapest pcb that will accept alps? I'm hoping for this to cost less than an ADB converter, or else i'll do that and use the apple keycap set and frame.
Hasu is is doing another GB run of his 60% board.
Clueboard is also a great option, if you're into the 66% scene.
Post by: iwantatrophy on Sun, 22 January 2017, 04:56:28
Post by: E3E on Sun, 22 January 2017, 05:15:06
What are the boards from which I can harvest caps for an HHKB layout? DSA profile and Alpine Winter is not to my liking :| so looking for a donor board.
If you wanted a PBT set, the Dell AT101 and Zenith 163-73 key caps would work splendidly together.
If you don't really care about thin ABS, then Tai Hao sets from a Focus FK-2001 and an ANSI Northgate Omnikey would work.
You can also use an AEK and M0116 to create a set appropriate for the HHKB. Unique profile, but thick dyesubbed PBT.
There are MANY sets that can fit, but it gets pretty obscure past this point.
You can also use IBM 5140 key caps for most of the HHKB layout aside from enter and the pipe key. You might have to find something for the two 1u bottom row keys with that one too.
Post by: iwantatrophy on Sun, 22 January 2017, 05:20:43
Post by: E3E on Sun, 22 January 2017, 05:55:21
Thanks for quick reply although nearly all of them lack 1.5 backspace (with legend). It also seems I can't find an IBM on ebay right now, but I do have an Dell AT101 seller in contact.
That's a very hard key to find with legend accuracy. The Canon typewriter Mattr mentioned (and used to dress his V60MTS) is one example of a backspace legend beying on a key in R2 profile and the correct size. Problem would then be filling out the keys missing that the board does not account for. Ansi Enter, space bar, bottom row, and right shift. Yeeeah. Not to mention that the profile is a unique spherical profile, so that's even worse.
With Alps, you kind of learn not to be too picky because some things either don't exist or are just really hard to find an example of.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 22 January 2017, 08:45:28
but I do have an Dell AT101 seller in contact.
Only the very early AT101s have the PBT caps. The majority of them will not, and PBT was long gone by the time the AT101W came out.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 22 January 2017, 09:16:23
I agree! The Omni 101 has a superb solid chassis for bringing out the best in Alps switches. I prefer typing on my Omni 101 with SKCM "Pine" White Alps to typing on other keyboards with SKCM Blue Alps. My "to do" list includes installing Blue Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 as part of my asymptotic approach to typing perfection.
Was thinking about selling my modded omnikey, but I just cant bring myself to do it.
Northgate Omnikey 101 is the endgame Alps keyboard for anybody who prefers straight-ANSI layout.
I have 2: one with excellent blue Alps and one with modded like-new "faux-orange" (long story). Alps keyboards simply don't get any better than that.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 22 January 2017, 11:11:40
My "to do" list includes installing Blue Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 as part of my asymptotic approach to typing perfection.
I think that I found myself in nearly the same position as you do (although I had already transplanted a set of excellent blue Alps into a clean Omnikey 101 and was extremely pleased with the result) in that I bought a beautiful "like-new" 101 last summer (shortly before I steered you to the one you bought, as I remember).
My problem is that I have a checkered history with de-soldering Northgates and have damaged more than 1 in the process, so I had considerable trepidation at the thought of butchering such a beauty.
The solution was easy, because I wanted an orange tactile version to go along with the clicky one. I had a bag of very nice oranges, but I realized that the only difference between them and the whites were the springs, leaves, and sliders. Being that the whites were essentially new, I did not do any soldering and left the switch bodies in place, removed the tops, and rebuilt them with the orange springs and leaves. Thus, I have a keyboard that is in fact an orange tactile switch version, even though the eyes see what looks like white sliders. I elected to re-use the white sliders since they were newer and better than the orange ones that I had on hand.
If it is just my imagination and clumsiness that makes me think that Northgates are problematic in the soldering department, go ahead. But a set of switch bodies in perfect condition, factory-soldered in place - you might consider just leaving them intact and rebuilding them from the top.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 22 January 2017, 11:14:02
Post by: cumwagondeluxe on Sun, 22 January 2017, 11:35:25
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 22 January 2017, 14:13:00
Anyone know if IBM 5140s (Convertible PC) really are my best bet for finding brown alps? Is there really not any documented part number for them hidden on some site somewhere? (e.g. like SKCMAQ for white alps)
That and some versions Magnavox VIdeowriter keyboards can come with them. Otherwise some Texas Instrument keyboards came with them but they are pretty rare.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 22 January 2017, 19:43:12
SKCM browns also were used in the keyboards of a few Xerox machines and Unix 7300 PCs. If you are patient, 5140s can be had on eBay for a good price.Anyone know if IBM 5140s (Convertible PC) really are my best bet for finding brown alps? Is there really not any documented part number for them hidden on some site somewhere? (e.g. like SKCMAQ for white alps)
That and some versions Magnavox VIdeowriter keyboards can come with them. Otherwise some Texas Instrument keyboards came with them but they are pretty rare.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 22 January 2017, 20:01:40
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 22 January 2017, 21:45:58
I suppose that when trying to mimic a given switch by doing a "top mod" with swappable parts (top housing, slider, tactile/click leaf, and return spring), it might also be important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates? I am not sure how much difference the switch plate makes in the sound and feel of the switch. However, bamboo vs. pine top housings make a major difference, and of course a tactile vs click leaves do as well.
My "to do" list includes installing Blue Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 as part of my asymptotic approach to typing perfection.
I think that I found myself in nearly the same position as you do (although I had already transplanted a set of excellent blue Alps into a clean Omnikey 101 and was extremely pleased with the result) in that I bought a beautiful "like-new" 101 last summer (shortly before I steered you to the one you bought, as I remember).
My problem is that I have a checkered history with de-soldering Northgates and have damaged more than 1 in the process, so I had considerable trepidation at the thought of butchering such a beauty.
The solution was easy, because I wanted an orange tactile version to go along with the clicky one. I had a bag of very nice oranges, but I realized that the only difference between them and the whites were the springs, leaves, and sliders. Being that the whites were essentially new, I did not do any soldering and left the switch bodies in place, removed the tops, and rebuilt them with the orange springs and leaves. Thus, I have a keyboard that is in fact an orange tactile switch version, even though the eyes see what looks like white sliders. I elected to re-use the white sliders since they were newer and better than the orange ones that I had on hand.
If it is just my imagination and clumsiness that makes me think that Northgates are problematic in the soldering department, go ahead. But a set of switch bodies in perfect condition, factory-soldered in place - you might consider just leaving them intact and rebuilding them from the top.
I am less certain about the sliders -- it seems that early generation sliders had dry lube applied, but later generation sliders did not. It is possible that the plastic used in later-generation switches were inherently more slippery and did not require additional lubrication. However, I have noticed that the spring post in white sliders looks a bit thicker and longer than the spring posts in earlier Alps switches, but I don't know if this affects the sound or feel of the switch.
Here is a link to the top mod I did on a Northgate Omnikey 101. I also painted the case black, put dye-sub PBT SGI caps on the alpha keys, Tai-Hao Wob caps on the F- and number keys, and Matias blank black on the mods and spacebar.
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/northgate-omnikey-101-with-hybrid-skcm-white-orange-alps-switches-t15187.html
(https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/northgate-omnikey-101-with-hybrid-skcm-white-orange-alps-switches-t15187.html)
[attachimg=1]
This Northgate had white bamboo switches that sounded more like Matias Click switches than white Alps, so I wanted to replace the bamboo tops with pine tops. The only pine-top switches I had on hand at the time were orange Alps. I ended up replacing the tops, sliders, and springs in the white Alps with the corresponding parts from the orange Alps. The link has some audio clips, but unfortunately the comparison is rather apples vs. oranges (or blue vs. white-orange in this specific case). I didn't think of making recordings until the mod was finished. Maybe next time I will think ahead and do more meaningful comparisons.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 23 January 2017, 07:37:42
important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates?
All of the switches involved were "pine" and had long switch plates. A random small few of the orange ones had gray instead of white switch plates, but I could not see any actual differences in them.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 23 January 2017, 09:20:25
Interesting! Perhaps you could update the DT wiki article on SKCM white Alps switches. Under "known variants", the table indicates "unknown" for the type of switch plate in pine white Alps. Your observation attests to the notion that there was a gradual transition in the types of components used as white switches superseded blue, and a further gradual evolution throughout the era of SKCM white Alps switches.
important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates?
All of the switches involved were "pine" and had long switch plates. A random small few of the orange ones had gray instead of white switch plates, but I could not see any actual differences in them.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 23 January 2017, 10:17:27
White Alps came in lots of variants - I have most of them, but not the unbranded variety. They generally used short switchplates, it's only the unbranded ones we're not sure of whether they used short or tall IIRC. Orange Alps always have tall switchplates AFAIK, (almost) always grey.Interesting! Perhaps you could update the DT wiki article on SKCM white Alps switches. Under "known variants", the table indicates "unknown" for the type of switch plate in pine white Alps. Your observation attests to the notion that there was a gradual transition in the types of components used as white switches superseded blue, and a further gradual evolution throughout the era of SKCM white Alps switches.
important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates?
All of the switches involved were "pine" and had long switch plates. A random small few of the orange ones had gray instead of white switch plates, but I could not see any actual differences in them.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 26 January 2017, 00:34:18
SGI PBT + SKCM Brown is so satisfying. The AT101 is a good chassis for the switch as well.
Too bad the spacebar has reyellowed a bit :rolleyes:
Post by: invariance on Thu, 26 January 2017, 04:05:01
[attach=1]
Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
[attach=2]
(ipotato)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 26 January 2017, 06:03:10
My first Alps board, an MTech K104.Yup, very early whites. Some of the best clicky switches, very close to blue alps.
(Attachment Link)
Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)
Post by: invariance on Thu, 26 January 2017, 06:27:39
Thanks for the confirmation. If does feel nice.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 26 January 2017, 07:11:08
My first Alps board, an MTech K104.This is a very nice find. Could you please do us a favour and tell us whether it's got tall or short switchplates? This data is missing from the wiki :) .
(Attachment Link)
Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 26 January 2017, 11:09:07
Been using my now SKCM Brown SGI Granite for almost a week now and I am loving it. Took a bit to get used to the new weight and tactile bump but i'm pretty used to it at this point. My fingers don't get tired out with these, except maybe sometimes when i'm holding down up arrow playing a game or something :pI had SKCM Brown Alps in my custom 60%, but they felt harsh on the fingers after a while. I think this was partly due to the small unyielding stainless steel plate. The switches probably feel better in a larger board with a somewhat more flexible build. The tactile assembly in Brown Alps provides a nice taut feel in this switch that is unlike any other Alps variety.
SGI PBT + SKCM Brown is so satisfying. The AT101 is a good chassis for the switch as well.
Too bad the spacebar has reyellowed a bit :rolleyes:
Post by: nastrovje on Thu, 26 January 2017, 11:59:23
Hey guys!
I clearly have to revoke my claim from a few pages ago where I said that blue alps feel just like white alps but a bit better.
Thanks to being desperate and you guys who told me that there is no explanation for my experiences, altough I tried 2 different blue alps boards, I simply went ahead and bought the super expensive Monterey K2AX, which supposedly has flawless switches, from a friend who bought it from ebay.
And I have to say... You were right!
This thing feels absolutely marvelous!
I'm completely addicted to the feel and sound. I'm typing just for the sake of typing again and am angry that real life obligations are hindering me of doing so 24/7 ;D
So now, my favourite boards are custom tkls and I realized I really need one with blue alps.
But at the same time I think it would be a crime to butcher such a rare board just to harvest the switches.
If I buy used blue alps like the mediocre ones I tried before, can I really bring them back to the condition of the ones I am typing right now?
Or is the statement that "every alps switch can be brought back" not completely correct?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 26 January 2017, 13:40:58
Told ya ;) .
Hey guys!
I clearly have to revoke my claim from a few pages ago where I said that blue alps feel just like white alps but a bit better.
Thanks to being desperate and you guys who told me that there is no explanation for my experiences, altough I tried 2 different blue alps boards, I simply went ahead and bought the super expensive Monterey K2AX, which supposedly has flawless switches, from a friend who bought it from ebay.
And I have to say... You were right!
This thing feels absolutely marvelous!
I'm completely addicted to the feel and sound. I'm typing just for the sake of typing again and am angry that real life obligations are hindering me of doing so 24/7 ;D
So now, my favourite boards are custom tkls and I realized I really need one with blue alps.
But at the same time I think it would be a crime to butcher such a rare board just to harvest the switches.
If I buy used blue alps like the mediocre ones I tried before, can I really bring them back to the condition of the ones I am typing right now?
Or is the statement that "every alps switch can be brought back" not completely correct?
No, I wouldn't count on being able to restore them. You might improve them, but I don't think you'll ever get them back to as-new condition. The best method so far has been reported to be sonication, in case you want to try. But I wouldn't count on it.
Post by: nastrovje on Thu, 26 January 2017, 16:01:23
But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. :))
Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 26 January 2017, 18:51:13
Totally worth it man!
But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. :))
Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing :p
Do only the switch tops, that is what really makes the biggest difference. The only other thing would be the switch bottoms but it is a huge pain to remove water from the switchplate.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 26 January 2017, 19:14:02
Totally worth it man!
But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. :))
Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing :p
If you take good care of the keyboard, it shouldn't have any problems with feel. I think most of the irreparable wear comes from abrasion and deformation of the top housing's rails for the slider. Luckily, this means you don't need to find great quality switches to -make- a great quality switch.
If you have a board full of used SKCM Blues, just take some switch tops from another SKCM switch of your choice that's in great condition (but more common) and put the SKCM Blue internals in that top.
You've now just revitalized your switches' feel to great or like new condition. :P
Also, what custom TKLs do you have by the way?
Post by: invariance on Fri, 27 January 2017, 03:17:40
My first Alps board, an MTech K104.This is a very nice find. Could you please do us a favour and tell us whether it's got tall or short switchplates? This data is missing from the wiki :) .
(Attachment Link)
Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)
To my untrained eye it appears to be a short one.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
If I need to desolder a switch for further investigation or even measurements, I am more than willing to.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 January 2017, 03:28:15
My first Alps board, an MTech K104.This is a very nice find. Could you please do us a favour and tell us whether it's got tall or short switchplates? This data is missing from the wiki :) .
(Attachment Link)
Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)
To my untrained eye it appears to be a short one.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
If I need to desolder a switch for further investigation or even measurements, I am more than willing to.
Yep, these are definitely short plates.
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 27 January 2017, 07:55:11
Post by: need on Fri, 27 January 2017, 08:05:09
Hey guys, any advice for someone about to do their first AEK2 USB conversion?
You are going to make a Hasu ADB convertor right?
It's pretty easy with a Teensy, but I had troubles with Pro-Micro controllers.
Also I prefer making an outside converter that can be shared between multiple keyboards/apple mouse.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 27 January 2017, 08:26:09
I suppose if you had loose switches, you could sonicate the bottoms (including the switchplates) in a non-aqueous solvent, taking care that is is a "plastic-friendly" solvent (acetone would definitely be out on this score, plus it is highly flammable, making it dangerous to use).Totally worth it man!
But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. :))
Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing :p
Do only the switch tops, that is what really makes the biggest difference. The only other thing would be the switch bottoms but it is a huge pain to remove water from the switchplate.
If the switches were soldered into a board and you wanted to clean the bottoms and switchplates in situ, you could use a non-lubricating non-aqueous contact cleaner.
If the sliders, springs, and tactile/click leaves have picked up oils and/or dirt, it couldn't hurt to sonicate them as well, although I tend to agree that sonicating the switch tops gives you the biggest bang per bat squeak.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 27 January 2017, 08:35:39
Replacing top housings and sliders and vacuuming or blowing out the switch bodies will get you most of the way there without undue effort.
Mr Bishop's "trident" tools are very highly recommended.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 January 2017, 08:38:52
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 27 January 2017, 09:59:38
Aside from issues with the contacts that could probably be remedied with contact cleaner, I don't see any benefit in washing the bottoms. They wouldn't affect feel unless the slider is literally bottoming out on some kind of sticky mess at the bottom of the switch.Sounds reasonable. However, if you are using pressurized contact cleaner on switches that are soldered in place, you end up spraying the switch bottoms as well.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 January 2017, 10:03:02
Aside from issues with the contacts that could probably be remedied with contact cleaner, I don't see any benefit in washing the bottoms. They wouldn't affect feel unless the slider is literally bottoming out on some kind of sticky mess at the bottom of the switch.Sounds reasonable. However, if you are using pressurized contact cleaner on switches that are soldered in place, you end up spraying the switch bottoms as well.
I've actually never used contact cleaner on Alps contacts, but it seems like some people have success with it? I usually just swap out bunked switch plates. If it's a quick drying cleaner, I don't see why it'd leave any residue unless contact cleaners typically leave a film behind or something.
The only contact cleaner I have atm is a lubricant as well, so I wouldn't use that on the switch plates.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 27 January 2017, 10:10:10
The only contact cleaner I have atm is a lubricant as well, so I wouldn't use that on the switch plates.
Are we talking about something like De-Oxit? My understanding was that the residue was very slight and electrically neutral.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 January 2017, 11:06:23
The only contact cleaner I have atm is a lubricant as well, so I wouldn't use that on the switch plates.
Are we talking about something like De-Oxit? My understanding was that the residue was very slight and electrically neutral.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There's tons of sprays that say they're quick drying and safe on plastics though. Not sure how much it varies between them. Almost all of them have great reviews on Amazon, I've seen.
Yeah, I'd imagine it wouldn't be an issue in the bottom of the housings either. It'd have to be nasty and gunky to really effect the switch.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 January 2017, 11:27:48
(http://i.imgur.com/GCIpLd6.jpg)
I'm really excited to ultimately top off my Mira build with these sitting on top of SKCL Striped Ambers.
The blue chinese Alphas are so pretty and the Japanese set being used for the F row strangely works, imo. I first had to use a funky F row like that with my Chinese PBT caps, and then the ICL One Per Desk. I'm not so picky about legend accuracy. I'm more picky about profile uniformity.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 27 January 2017, 18:59:34
Thanks again to MattR for the trade:Yes, I tend to go for profile and color symmetry. Whenever possible, I use blanks for mods, partly because I like to remap to a HHKB-like layout and it is very difficult to find the appropriate legends.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GCIpLd6.jpg)
I'm really excited to ultimately top off my Mira build with these sitting on top of SKCL Striped Ambers.
The blue chinese Alphas are so pretty and the Japanese set being used for the F row strangely works, imo. I first had to use a funky F row like that with my Chinese PBT caps, and then the ICL One Per Desk. I'm not so picky about legend accuracy. I'm more picky about profile uniformity.
As for non-English legends, unless I can read the language I hesitate to use them for fear that the legends say something quite unexpected. :-[
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 27 January 2017, 19:19:21
Thanks again to MattR for the trade:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GCIpLd6.jpg)
I'm really excited to ultimately top off my Mira build with these sitting on top of SKCL Striped Ambers.
The blue chinese Alphas are so pretty and the Japanese set being used for the F row strangely works, imo. I first had to use a funky F row like that with my Chinese PBT caps, and then the ICL One Per Desk. I'm not so picky about legend accuracy. I'm more picky about profile uniformity.
Those look great! Did you retrobright them more after you got them? They were white but those look even whiter.
I have a small regret trading them, but I really had no use for them. The Canon's on SKCM Amber are great, especially in a 60% travel combo. SKCM Browns are fantastic in an SGI too.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 27 January 2017, 19:30:01
Post by: E3E on Fri, 27 January 2017, 21:14:03
Those look great! Did you retrobright them more after you got them? They were white but those look even whiter.
I have a small regret trading them, but I really had no use for them. The Canon's on SKCM Amber are great, especially in a 60% travel combo. SKCM Browns are fantastic in an SGI too.
Aww, I don't mean to rub it in, man. :( It's just that I am really grateful. It'll help a ton and will be the highlight for the Mira, I think. I still need to figure out a few more things because not all the caps are just right.
Yeah, the one thing the set might not have is color uniformity on the F5-8 keys (or well, having it traditional where it matches the Esc key color), though I might try color matching the mods with dye. ABS can be dyed as Dokyun mentioned (and I've done with a space bar), but getting the right color might be tricky.
At least you had a good replacement, Mattr! I'm kind of trying to collect all the high pro spherical caps as well, so it's very much appreciated and it looks like you put the switches to good use too!
Yep, I did give them another retrobright since the Japanese set was a lighter shade. I figured they could use it. It really helps that blue/teal color to pop.
The only high pro set I'm curious about now is the Yamaha MSX series, but it seems as though they aren't particularly deep in terms of scoop depth. Kind of like the One Per Desk caps, which are high pro, but very very shallowly scooped. Practically flat.
Those and the Canon caps are all I'd like to collect in terms of caps at the moment.
Post by: zombimuncha on Sat, 28 January 2017, 13:44:57
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 19:04:54
Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 19:09:05
Thinking about selling my FK-3001 and buying something else. Any suggestions?Are you interested in a k104 with monterey blues and a really odd case?
Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 19:10:50
Thinking about selling my FK-3001 and buying something else. Any suggestions?Are you interested in a k104 with monterey blues and a really odd case?
Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.
Yes.
What do you mean by odd case?
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 19:16:34
I would say this qualifies as odd, wouldnt you?Thinking about selling my FK-3001 and buying something else. Any suggestions?Are you interested in a k104 with monterey blues and a really odd case?
Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.
Yes.
What do you mean by odd case?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170129/269d9b418c05fa95773e55d66b11634c.jpg)
It has a thermal printer and a really neat lcd display. It seems to just be a normal board, It has a normal pcb on it, it's just connected to another pcb inside. If you can figure out the pinout by looking at another k104 you could hack in a ps2 cable. I have the original box as well.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 19:21:15
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 20:25:05
Solid trade right there. Need to rewire it/make a cable and then ill be perfect as it is quirky. Right now the connector for the cable is connected internally to the printer.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 28 January 2017, 22:15:08
Own it :D
Solid trade right there. Need to rewire it/make a cable and then ill be perfect as it is quirky. Right now the connector for the cable is connected internally to the printer.
One funky keyboard with an LCD for another one. Pretty 1:1, haha.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 22:51:09
Own it :D
Solid trade right there. Need to rewire it/make a cable and then ill be perfect as it is quirky. Right now the connector for the cable is connected internally to the printer.
One funky keyboard with an LCD for another one. Pretty 1:1, haha.
Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 28 January 2017, 22:56:18
Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.
Yeah, SKCM White is pretty irrelevant when you've got a nice board with blues. I did like them in the AZERTY Xerox 6085 I put them in before sending off to Wingpad though, haha.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 28 January 2017, 22:58:41
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 28 January 2017, 23:02:33
Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.
Yeah, SKCM White is pretty irrelevant when you've got a nice board with blues. I did like them in the AZERTY Xerox 6085 I put them in before sending off to Wingpad though, haha.
Any updates with that? The Xerox layout doesn't look half bad, not that I can afford the going rate for SKCM greens.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 28 January 2017, 23:05:55
Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.
Yeah, SKCM White is pretty irrelevant when you've got a nice board with blues. I did like them in the AZERTY Xerox 6085 I put them in before sending off to Wingpad though, haha.
Any updates with that? The Xerox layout doesn't look half bad, not that I can afford the going rate for SKCM greens.
I'm pretty heavily biased; I think it's really grown on me. The C.Itoh sphericals go great with SKCM Greens and Browns. It'd be a fun 93 key layout to use!
So far, it's going slow, but Wingpad is digging in. I know the protocol has been mapped out already, so I -think- it's the conversion process that's the big hurdle. Crossing my fingers! I know I'm not the only Xerox 6085/DocuTech owner who actually wants to use them on a modern system.
HouseOfSuffering also helped by lending me the Mouse Trak trackball for the Xerox he managed to get to do some additional testing with along with the standard Xerox optical mouse! Hopefully we'll get support for those too.
Not counting any chickens before they hatch, but I'm hopeful. :)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 28 January 2017, 23:18:24
Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.
Yeah, SKCM White is pretty irrelevant when you've got a nice board with blues. I did like them in the AZERTY Xerox 6085 I put them in before sending off to Wingpad though, haha.
Any updates with that? The Xerox layout doesn't look half bad, not that I can afford the going rate for SKCM greens.
I'm pretty heavily biased; I think it's really grown on me. The C.Itoh sphericals go great with SKCM Greens and Browns. It'd be a fun 93 key layout to use!
So far, it's going slow, but Wingpad is digging in. I know the protocol has been mapped out already, so I -think- it's the conversion process that's the big hurdle. Crossing my fingers! I know I'm not the only Xerox 6085/DocuTech owner who actually wants to use them on a modern system.
HouseOfSuffering also helped by lending me the Mouse Trak trackball for the Xerox he managed to get to do some additional testing with along with the standard Xerox optical mouse! Hopefully we'll get support for those too.
Not counting any chickens before they hatch, but I'm hopeful. :)
Sounds great! Haven't heard much from Wingpad around here lately, must be pretty busy. If I recall correctly, he mentioned being in grad school for computer science/engineering.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 28 January 2017, 23:27:08
Sounds great! Haven't heard much from Wingpad around here lately, must be pretty busy. If I recall correctly, he mentioned being in grad school for computer science/engineering.
Yeah, Wingpad is a swell dude. If he can get a converter going, I'm definitely going to let him keep the AZERTY 6085 as a token of appreciation and so he can use one too. He wanted to do it all for free, which I felt was nuts. Haha. I hope he can pull through and that the conversion isn't too hard.
Since the 6085 ran on a very much modern GUI kind of system, it should have press/release scancodes I bet. I hope. Even then, I know a converter can be made without release codes, but I know it gets complicated at that point. I don't know too much about the nature of protocols and conversions, but I know some are pretty difficult to convert.
Post by: catawalks on Sun, 29 January 2017, 19:04:41
Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.
Yeah, SKCM White is pretty irrelevant when you've got a nice board with blues. I did like them in the AZERTY Xerox 6085 I put them in before sending off to Wingpad though, haha.
Are the whites really that far off from the blues? I have a couple boards with white clones and a set of original blues in a test plate, but to me I almost like the whites better. The blues are very smooth and quite loud in the clicky department, but after modding the click leaf on one of the sets of white clones I really enjoy the heavy tactile bump with a nice click. I was OK modding the whites as they were cheap and are clone switches, but I don't think I'd want to change blues and possibly lose their value.
Are the blues supposed to be really light and not have much of a tactile bump? I assume that most of that force is put in to bending the leaf down to snap back and not much of it is used to resist the press of the key like tactile switches. Maybe I'll have to get some orange or cream switches and see how they feel compared to the blacks I have......this gets expensive really quickly when you just want to see what the different switches feel like.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 29 January 2017, 19:15:37
Are the whites really that far off from the blues? I have a couple boards with white clones and a set of original blues in a test plate, but to me I almost like the whites better. The blues are very smooth and quite loud in the clicky department, but after modding the click leaf on one of the sets of white clones I really enjoy the heavy tactile bump with a nice click. I was OK modding the whites as they were cheap and are clone switches, but I don't think I'd want to change blues and possibly lose their value.
Are the blues supposed to be really light and not have much of a tactile bump? I assume that most of that force is put in to bending the leaf down to snap back and not much of it is used to resist the press of the key like tactile switches. Maybe I'll have to get some orange or cream switches and see how they feel compared to the blacks I have......this gets expensive really quickly when you just want to see what the different switches feel like.
I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that everything you see here is subjective. If you actually enjoy SKCM Whites more than SKCM Blues, then honestly, that just means that you're lucky because SKCM Whites are so much easier to find, and people aren't competing to try and get some. It sounds like you might actually like SKCM Ambers. I find the click on Ambers to be a little hollow and not as nice as SKCM Blues, but they do have very sharp tactility.
I'd love to buy a set of them again (IIc), but I've not wanted to pay the prices they're going for on eBay lately. Yeah, that's why I try to keep a store of every kind of switch aside from those I really don't care for enough to keep around (really just SKCM Black), so I can always compare. Really, I should've kept black around more to make more comparisons, but I needed the money and they were the most uninteresting switches out of the bunch for me.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 29 January 2017, 19:45:34
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 29 January 2017, 19:47:39
skcm whites are easier to find and hence better than blues. Used whites are even better than NOS blues.oh
but who are we kidding, topre beats them all.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 29 January 2017, 21:22:16
Used whites are even better than NOS blues.Alienman is drinking again.
Early NOS blues are amazing :p
but who are we kidding, topre beats them all.
NVM he is just trolling.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 29 January 2017, 21:24:31
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 30 January 2017, 00:53:03
Used whites are even better than NOS blues.Alienman is drinking again.
Early NOS blues are amazing :pbut who are we kidding, topre beats them all.
NVM he is just trolling.
What does 'early' have to do anything w/ SKCM Blue? Makes no difference in Blue's.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 30 January 2017, 08:50:49
Yeah no significant differences from later blues other than the switchplate color.Used whites are even better than NOS blues.Alienman is drinking again.
Early NOS blues are amazingbut who are we kidding, topre beats them all.
NVM he is just trolling.
What does 'early' have to do anything w/ SKCM Blue? Makes no difference in Blue's.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 30 January 2017, 10:27:24
I agree. Moreover, as has been stated by various folks in this thread and elsewhere, the overall impression you get from typing is dependent not only on the type of switch, but on the condition of the switch and the chassis in which it is installed. The generation of white Alps matters as well, particularly with respect to the top housing -- the earlier "pine" housings (with slits) is usually regarded as sounding and feeling better than the later "bamboo" (without slits) top housings.Are the whites really that far off from the blues? I have a couple boards with white clones and a set of original blues in a test plate, but to me I almost like the whites better. The blues are very smooth and quite loud in the clicky department, but after modding the click leaf on one of the sets of white clones I really enjoy the heavy tactile bump with a nice click. I was OK modding the whites as they were cheap and are clone switches, but I don't think I'd want to change blues and possibly lose their value.
Are the blues supposed to be really light and not have much of a tactile bump? I assume that most of that force is put in to bending the leaf down to snap back and not much of it is used to resist the press of the key like tactile switches. Maybe I'll have to get some orange or cream switches and see how they feel compared to the blacks I have......this gets expensive really quickly when you just want to see what the different switches feel like.
I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that everything you see here is subjective. If you actually enjoy SKCM Whites more than SKCM Blues, then honestly, that just means that you're lucky because SKCM Whites are so much easier to find, and people aren't competing to try and get some. It sounds like you might actually like SKCM Ambers. I find the click on Ambers to be a little hollow and not as nice as SKCM Blues, but they do have very sharp tactility.
I'd love to buy a set of them again (IIc), but I've not wanted to pay the prices they're going for on eBay lately. Yeah, that's why I try to keep a store of every kind of switch aside from those I really don't care for enough to keep around (really just SKCM Black), so I can always compare. Really, I should've kept black around more to make more comparisons, but I needed the money and they were the most uninteresting switches out of the bunch for me.
I am typing this on a Zenith 163-73 with yellow Alps that I have modded with top housings and click leaves from pine white Alps switches. This is now my favorite Alps keyboard to type on with respect to sound and feel. The layout also lends itself to remapping HHKB-style, with a split right shift and an oversized right bracket for a backspace. I am in the process of installing an internal Soarer's converter and a panel-mount micro-USB connector. I'll post some pics when the board is finished.
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 30 January 2017, 17:27:57
Anybody interested in the SKBM (Fukka) Whites?I was considering getting a KBP V60 with Fukka (Fuhua) whites and modifying them, but does anyone know if the top housings are interchangeable with SKCM white Alps switches?
Post by: nastrovje on Mon, 30 January 2017, 18:07:29
Thanks for all the info on alps maintenance/cleaning! That sounds easier than I thought, I will definitely try! And if exchanging the tops works, I'll be able to live the blue alps life till the end.
Also, what custom TKLs do you have by the way?
Funnily I don't have any. I just played around with the keyboards of other people while personally prioritizing trying out other stuff in the pursuit of layout and mx switch enlightenment.
Well, both never fully arrived -> Time for Alps and back to what's most pleasing to my eyes.
Actually deciding which one to buy right right now :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 30 January 2017, 20:08:08
Anybody interested in the SKBM (Fukka) Whites?I was considering getting a KBP V60 with Fukka (Fuhua) whites and modifying them, but does anyone know if the top housings are interchangeable with SKCM white Alps switches?
I don't think so.
I desoldered mine without a single issue :)
Post by: OfTheWild on Mon, 30 January 2017, 21:52:50
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 30 January 2017, 22:16:21
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 30 January 2017, 22:26:12
The V60/V80's are notoriously finicky for desoldering right? Any tips for preventing lifted pads on these? iron temp under 600F? I'm about to do my v80 on Wednesday when the new solder sucker comes in.
Yes, I broke my first one.
I use a cheapish 40W Weller iron. The main thing at least for me is to make sure ALL of the solder is removed from the through hole. Its dual layered so solder like to stick down there. Make sure the through hole is COMPLETELY empty of solder all the way to the bottom. I did this by letting the solder stay melted for an extra second before attempting to suck it and also getting a good aim on the solder sucker. If not all of it comes out add solder and try again. Even with this I had a couple of switches take a tiny bit of the though hole with it but it didn't affect anything.
You may also need to add solder on each pin since they use a tiny amount of solder by default, so you have to hold the iron closer to the pad to melt it. I managed to find a good angle to hold it at to melt the solder without having to add any but it does increase the risk of damaging the pad.
Since I'm (the first?) to do it without any damaged pads or through holes I guess I could offer a service to people to desolder their KBP boards, if people are that scared to ruin their boards. I sure did! A steady and precise hand is key and a lot of patience is key.
Post by: OfTheWild on Tue, 31 January 2017, 03:17:31
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 31 January 2017, 12:02:01
Post by: E3E on Tue, 31 January 2017, 12:13:40
I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 31 January 2017, 13:08:52
I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
Zenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 31 January 2017, 18:42:49
I am enjoying my Zenith 163-73, but I am not a fan of linears, so I hybridized the yellow Alps by replacing the top housings with those from white pine Alps, and I added click leaves from white Alps. The result feels very much like blue Alps to me. I like the board so much, I am looking for another one to use at work.I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
Zenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 31 January 2017, 19:04:20
If you're interested Im selling my alps64 with the click modded greens...I am enjoying my Zenith 163-73, but I am not a fan of linears, so I hybridized the yellow Alps by replacing the top housings with those from white pine Alps, and I added click leaves from white Alps. The result feels very much like blue Alps to me. I like the board so much, I am looking for another one to use at work.I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
Zenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 31 January 2017, 21:32:00
If you're interested Im selling my alps64 with the click modded greens...I am enjoying my Zenith 163-73, but I am not a fan of linears, so I hybridized the yellow Alps by replacing the top housings with those from white pine Alps, and I added click leaves from white Alps. The result feels very much like blue Alps to me. I like the board so much, I am looking for another one to use at work.I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
Zenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.
Not a fan of white alps but I click-modded my green alps Z-150 too, makes for a great typing experience!
Also, I am now the proud owner of an SKCL Grey thanks to my new Zenith ZKB-2R! Surprised to find one under the spacebar as it wasn't in the DT Wiki. Too bad its missing an "A" key, here's to hoping someone has a spare? Otherwise I will just harvest the switches and give the chassis away to someone doesn't mind mismatched keycaps.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 31 January 2017, 22:14:34
If you're interested Im selling my alps64 with the click modded greens...I am enjoying my Zenith 163-73, but I am not a fan of linears, so I hybridized the yellow Alps by replacing the top housings with those from white pine Alps, and I added click leaves from white Alps. The result feels very much like blue Alps to me. I like the board so much, I am looking for another one to use at work.I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
Zenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.
Not a fan of white alps but I click-modded my green alps Z-150 too, makes for a great typing experience!
Also, I am now the proud owner of an SKCL Grey thanks to my new Zenith ZKB-2R! Surprised to find one under the spacebar as it wasn't in the DT Wiki. Too bad its missing an "A" key, here's to hoping someone has a spare? Otherwise I will just harvest the switches and give the chassis away to someone doesn't mind mismatched keycaps.
What? Don't do that! ZKB-2's are something to save! Good layout and build quality.
Chryos cries enough about Z-150's being harvested. He would go crazy over a ZKB-2 getting scrapped! :p
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 31 January 2017, 23:45:05
If you're interested Im selling my alps64 with the click modded greens...MoreZenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
I am enjoying my Zenith 163-73, but I am not a fan of linears, so I hybridized the yellow Alps by replacing the top housings with those from white pine Alps, and I added click leaves from white Alps. The result feels very much like blue Alps to me. I like the board so much, I am looking for another one to use at work.
Not a fan of white alps but I click-modded my green alps Z-150 too, makes for a great typing experience!
Also, I am now the proud owner of an SKCL Grey thanks to my new Zenith ZKB-2R! Surprised to find one under the spacebar as it wasn't in the DT Wiki. Too bad its missing an "A" key, here's to hoping someone has a spare? Otherwise I will just harvest the switches and give the chassis away to someone doesn't mind mismatched keycaps.
What? Don't do that! ZKB-2's are something to save! Good layout and build quality.
Chryos cries enough about Z-150's being harvested. He would go crazy over a ZKB-2 getting scrapped! :p
The SKCL Yellows are coming out for a backlit project but I just don't know what to do with the chassis. Its missing 2 keycaps (examples (https://deskthority.net/w/images/1/1f/Zenith_ZKB-2_Alps_SKCL_Green_doubleshot_keycaps.JPG)) and the only ones I have seen to be the same profile are on my obscure Copam K-430 (http://imgur.com/a/MWyZn). As it is now, I can't even get that board to work. Silly 1.5u bracket key.
Due to a shoulder injury from HS wrestling, fullsized layouts are quite uncomfortable so the hope is that someone else can put it to better use, caps and all.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 31 January 2017, 23:48:54
What? Don't do that! ZKB-2's are something to save! Good layout and build quality.
Chryos cries enough about Z-150's being harvested. He would go crazy over a ZKB-2 getting scrapped! :p
Well, at least he offered to give the chassis away if it comes down to harvesting the key caps. I know the ZKB-2 has a very strange profile that is not Alps OEM. The Zenith 163-73 has Alps OEM dyesubs, of course, which seem fantastic. I've heard complaints against the ZKB-2's profile.
Actually, by the looks of those caps on your K-430, Mandrew (lovely board btw, I remember it being NIB on eBay), I think I should have a key that would work on it. I find that profile on Monterey and some NTC keyboards. I should have an A key.
Post by: cumwagondeluxe on Wed, 01 February 2017, 00:47:01
Even in that condition, I realized I probably wouldn't really be buying MX style switches much if at all in the future - but the difference between these like new oranges (actually typing on them in a solid well built keyboard probably adds a good amount to how good they feel) and the ones I bought previously is crazy. Already got an ultrasonic cleaner on the way to salvage as many of the ones I bought as I can, and I've spent more time on eBay in the past 2 days than I have in my life.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 01 February 2017, 09:07:13
<snip>The silly right bracket key on my Zenith boards is one of the features that make these boards work for me -- I remap them to a HHKB-esque layout and use the oversized right bracket as my backspace key.
The SKCL Yellows are coming out for a backlit project but I just don't know what to do with the chassis. Its missing 2 keycaps (examples (https://deskthority.net/w/images/1/1f/Zenith_ZKB-2_Alps_SKCL_Green_doubleshot_keycaps.JPG)) and the only ones I have seen to be the same profile are on my obscure Copam K-430 (http://imgur.com/a/MWyZn). As it is now, I can't even get that board to work. Silly 1.5u bracket key.
Due to a shoulder injury from HS wrestling, fullsized layouts are quite uncomfortable so the hope is that someone else can put it to better use, caps and all.
My shoulder injury from HS gymnastics is what prompted me to move from full-size keyboards to TKL and then to 60%. However, it was fohat's suggestion to buy a bargain-priced Northgate Omnikey 101 that got me hooked on Alps and using full-size keyboards again. Nevertheless, I still prefer the 60% form factor, so my to-do list includes building a 60% Alps based on the Hasu Alps64 PCB.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 01 February 2017, 11:39:57
****. I think I'm hooked - I bought a very lightly used M0116 with oranges after having purchased 50 oranges + 50 greens off some guy for $50. The switches I got from him were in pretty good condition, a couple bad ones where e.g. the top housing on one of the greens was cracked and maybe 5 or 6 had the little wings on the tabs that hold the top housing in broken off.Once you try the proper Alps experience, with switches in fantastic condition, you'll never go back :D .
Even in that condition, I realized I probably wouldn't really be buying MX style switches much if at all in the future - but the difference between these like new oranges (actually typing on them in a solid well built keyboard probably adds a good amount to how good they feel) and the ones I bought previously is crazy. Already got an ultrasonic cleaner on the way to salvage as many of the ones I bought as I can, and I've spent more time on eBay in the past 2 days than I have in my life.
AAAAAGGGKK!If you're interested Im selling my alps64 with the click modded greens...I am enjoying my Zenith 163-73, but I am not a fan of linears, so I hybridized the yellow Alps by replacing the top housings with those from white pine Alps, and I added click leaves from white Alps. The result feels very much like blue Alps to me. I like the board so much, I am looking for another one to use at work.I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
Zenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.
Not a fan of white alps but I click-modded my green alps Z-150 too, makes for a great typing experience!
Also, I am now the proud owner of an SKCL Grey thanks to my new Zenith ZKB-2R! Surprised to find one under the spacebar as it wasn't in the DT Wiki. Too bad its missing an "A" key, here's to hoping someone has a spare? Otherwise I will just harvest the switches and give the chassis away to someone doesn't mind mismatched keycaps.
What? Don't do that! ZKB-2's are something to save! Good layout and build quality.
Chryos cries enough about Z-150's being harvested. He would go crazy over a ZKB-2 getting scrapped! :p
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 01 February 2017, 11:44:30
****. I think I'm hooked - I bought a very lightly used M0116 with oranges after having purchased 50 oranges + 50 greens off some guy for $50. The switches I got from him were in pretty good condition, a couple bad ones where e.g. the top housing on one of the greens was cracked and maybe 5 or 6 had the little wings on the tabs that hold the top housing in broken off.
Even in that condition, I realized I probably wouldn't really be buying MX style switches much if at all in the future - but the difference between these like new oranges (actually typing on them in a solid well built keyboard probably adds a good amount to how good they feel) and the ones I bought previously is crazy. Already got an ultrasonic cleaner on the way to salvage as many of the ones I bought as I can, and I've spent more time on eBay in the past 2 days than I have in my life.
Welcome to the rabbit hole, it's cozy in here ;)
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 01 February 2017, 12:24:19
If you're interested Im selling my alps64 with the click modded greens...MoreZenith is the expection though. SKCL Striped Amber is great in them too.I think I will go with a Hasu Alps64 rather than trying to desolder a V60. Now to find a source board for blue Alps that I won't feel too guilty about desoldering . . . .
I'd like one too. :P I have boards I could kill for Alps, but customs < quality vintages in my eyes. Unless the boards are really common, relatively speaking, or have no intrigue. Like the Striped Amber and SKCL Brown Tandem terminal keyboards I have aren't spared in the same way I spare the Xeroxes from desoldering, mainly because I... Well, it's subjective, I guess, but I think the Xerox boards are too elegant to desolder like that.
The Tandems were just terminal keyboards and their layout expresses that. IMO, they are better suited to be reborn in something modern and custom. I also enjoy SKCLs a bit more in a modern chassis than I do their original chassis, whereas I can take tactiles and clickies in their original housings just fine.
I mean, linears aren't bad in their original cases, but eh.
I am enjoying my Zenith 163-73, but I am not a fan of linears, so I hybridized the yellow Alps by replacing the top housings with those from white pine Alps, and I added click leaves from white Alps. The result feels very much like blue Alps to me. I like the board so much, I am looking for another one to use at work.
Not a fan of white alps but I click-modded my green alps Z-150 too, makes for a great typing experience!
Also, I am now the proud owner of an SKCL Grey thanks to my new Zenith ZKB-2R! Surprised to find one under the spacebar as it wasn't in the DT Wiki. Too bad its missing an "A" key, here's to hoping someone has a spare? Otherwise I will just harvest the switches and give the chassis away to someone doesn't mind mismatched keycaps.
What? Don't do that! ZKB-2's are something to save! Good layout and build quality.
Chryos cries enough about Z-150's being harvested. He would go crazy over a ZKB-2 getting scrapped! :p
The SKCL Yellows are coming out for a backlit project but I just don't know what to do with the chassis. Its missing 2 keycaps (examples (https://deskthority.net/w/images/1/1f/Zenith_ZKB-2_Alps_SKCL_Green_doubleshot_keycaps.JPG)) and the only ones I have seen to be the same profile are on my obscure Copam K-430 (http://imgur.com/a/MWyZn). As it is now, I can't even get that board to work. Silly 1.5u bracket key.
Due to a shoulder injury from HS wrestling, fullsized layouts are quite uncomfortable so the hope is that someone else can put it to better use, caps and all.
My Z-150 is missing 5 caps (the TaoBao seller told me only after I 'bought' it that it is not the exact board on the photo of the listing), including the rare R_Shift. Really don't know what to do with it.
Have been thinking of converting this board to be "Hotswappable". But first of all, I have to get a full set of caps again.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 01 February 2017, 12:25:11
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 01 February 2017, 12:34:59
I had a cap set from that board that I gave away, shame about the timing.
Oopss... that seems to be fate.
See what I'll get at the end for this board.
Of course, I hope there'll be the PBT caps from some XT-version Z-150 that has already been harvested from.
But in general, I'm not supporting to harvest Z-150 if it is of good condition, it's a cool looking sturdy board with layout that fits modern computing use.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 01 February 2017, 12:48:18
I had a cap set from that board that I gave away, shame about the timing.
Oopss... that seems to be fate.
See what I'll get at the end for this board.
Of course, I hope there'll be the PBT caps from some XT-version Z-150 that has already been harvested from.
But in general, I'm not supporting to harvest Z-150 if it is of good condition, it's a cool looking sturdy board with layout that fits modern computing use.
It doesn't look to be in very good condition. I have an entire ABS doubleshot capset from my XT Z-150, however (no, not all of them had PBT, only early version).
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 01 February 2017, 12:57:53
I had a cap set from that board that I gave away, shame about the timing.
Oopss... that seems to be fate.
See what I'll get at the end for this board.
Of course, I hope there'll be the PBT caps from some XT-version Z-150 that has already been harvested from.
But in general, I'm not supporting to harvest Z-150 if it is of good condition, it's a cool looking sturdy board with layout that fits modern computing use.
It doesn't look to be in very good condition. I have an entire ABS doubleshot capset from my XT Z-150, however (no, not all of them had PBT, only early version).
Right, it doesn't look so good...
But I was thinking about asking the artisan people to create a few of those replacement caps for me, colorful and fancy but unnecessary indeed.
Now at least, there is another possibility! :p
Noted down and when I really need them I'll PM you.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 01 February 2017, 13:31:33
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 01 February 2017, 22:30:38
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 01 February 2017, 22:31:29
How rare is a Lexmark-branded Model M, considering Mattr traded one for the SKCL Striped Amber keyboard?not that rare, he just needed one to finish off his lexmark collection
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 01 February 2017, 22:45:21
How rare is a Lexmark-branded Model M, considering Mattr traded one for the SKCL Striped Amber keyboard?not that rare, he just needed one to finish off his lexmark collection
k thnx
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 01 February 2017, 22:57:54
Post by: E3E on Wed, 01 February 2017, 23:50:32
How rare is a Lexmark-branded Model M, considering Mattr traded one for the SKCL Striped Amber keyboard?
Yeah, honestly we both kind of lucked out with those.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 01 February 2017, 23:55:29
I'll sell you mine.Maybe if I hadn't already tried Capacitive Buckling Springs. Asking since I saw one on Great Finds for under $50 shipped.
How rare is a Lexmark-branded Model M, considering Mattr traded one for the SKCL Striped Amber keyboard?
Yeah, honestly we both kind of lucked out with those.
That is an understatement :D
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 02 February 2017, 00:10:18
How rare is a Lexmark-branded Model M, considering Mattr traded one for the SKCL Striped Amber keyboard?
Yeah, honestly we both kind of lucked out with those.
It was the right time at the right place for ohaimark, wanted to finish his collection. They are definitely quite uncommon, a bit rare i'd say.
We did indeed. Don't regret it one bit :p The Zenith is an absolute perfect fit for them. Using it right now actually. Now just waiting for my weird SMK Monterey K104. Have a loose switch of one of these but never tried a full board of Monterey's.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 02 February 2017, 00:13:12
Checked my local stores for it where the guy said it might be, but nothing. RIP, we will never know if the pad printed version had SKCM Blue or White.
(http://i.imgur.com/J4FJDKS.jpg)
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 02 February 2017, 21:40:27
Only thing, a little lost on how the default Teensy config would work on Windows/Linux... will the alt/option key work as the windows key, control as control and apple as alt?
Post by: ShawnMeg on Thu, 02 February 2017, 22:37:20
I hope this is the right place to post this. My AEK2 is all cleaned up and ready to be USB converted with a Teensy.
Only thing, a little lost on how the default Teensy config would work on Windows/Linux... will the alt/option key work as the windows key, control as control and apple as alt?
With TMK firmware, control is control, alt/option is alt, and the apple key is Windows/Superkey(Linux). I tested mine on Windows 7/10 and Linux Lite 3.0.
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 02 February 2017, 22:56:11
I hope this is the right place to post this. My AEK2 is all cleaned up and ready to be USB converted with a Teensy.
Only thing, a little lost on how the default Teensy config would work on Windows/Linux... will the alt/option key work as the windows key, control as control and apple as alt?
With TMK firmware, control is control, alt/option is alt, and the apple key is Windows/Superkey(Linux). I tested mine on Windows 7/10 and Linux Lite 3.0.
Thanks a million for this! I will use this knowledge to edit the layout to how i was expectin it.
I am still cleaning it before I put it all back together, so i have a little while to figure out and set up my layout how i want it.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 02 February 2017, 23:30:43
Also remember that other Packard Bell I mentioned a little while back? Well the dudes parents gave it to goodwill before I could get to it :'(
Checked my local stores for it where the guy said it might be, but nothing. RIP, we will never know if the pad printed version had SKCM Blue or White.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/J4FJDKS.jpg)
That is a shame, what kind of caps are on your Packard Bell?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 03 February 2017, 08:14:22
Also remember that other Packard Bell I mentioned a little while back? Well the dudes parents gave it to goodwill before I could get to it :'(
Checked my local stores for it where the guy said it might be, but nothing. RIP, we will never know if the pad printed version had SKCM Blue or White.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/J4FJDKS.jpg)
That is a shame, what kind of caps are on your Packard Bell?
They're Alps Electric ABS doubleshots, but Mattr said that on this one that was being sold, they were pad printed or something.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 03 February 2017, 09:59:09
Also remember that other Packard Bell I mentioned a little while back? Well the dudes parents gave it to goodwill before I could get to it :'(
Checked my local stores for it where the guy said it might be, but nothing. RIP, we will never know if the pad printed version had SKCM Blue or White.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/J4FJDKS.jpg)
That is a shame, what kind of caps are on your Packard Bell?
They're Alps Electric ABS doubleshots, but Mattr said that on this one that was being sold, they were pad printed or something.
Yea. You can tell the caps are pad printed since the legends are coming off really badly :p
Also notice that the board has bars not nubs like mine so the caps are diffrent for sure.
To me it feels like the same situation as the Acer KB101 / KB101AS versions.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 03 February 2017, 19:12:26
http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/pc8801.htm
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 03 February 2017, 19:13:39
Post by: E3E on Fri, 03 February 2017, 19:24:30
Also discovered the Packard Bell has 6NKRO, which is nice. I had been using the Zenith for gaming but its only 2NKRO so it was a bit hard to play.
Haha you mean 6KRO. 6 NKRO is like saying it has 6 key, no key rollover. :P
Does the PCB have diodes? Usually 6KRO is a USB limitation. I get full NKRO with my Leading Edge DC-3014. The DocuTechs also have diodes, so I'm really hoping they get converted.
If you use soarer's converter, you should be able to see if it has NKRO. Or try typing "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." with both left and right shift keys held and see what you get.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 03 February 2017, 19:44:04
Also discovered the Packard Bell has 6NKRO, which is nice. I had been using the Zenith for gaming but its only 2NKRO so it was a bit hard to play.
Haha you mean 6KRO. 6 NKRO is like saying it has 6 key, no key rollover. :P
Does the PCB have diodes? Usually 6KRO is a USB limitation. I get full NKRO with my Leading Edge DC-3014. The DocuTechs also have diodes, so I'm really hoping they get converted.
If you use soarer's converter, you should be able to see if it has NKRO. Or try typing "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." with both left and right shift keys held and see what you get.
Haha yea.
I'm not sure, but in the microsoft keyboard ghosting test it managed to score a lot better than the Zenith. I can press all of WASD at once where I couldn't with the Zenith for example.
Post by: Wingklip on Fri, 03 February 2017, 22:22:22
Post by: happylacquer on Fri, 03 February 2017, 23:04:19
Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 03 February 2017, 23:17:44
Are there any ADB to PS/2 conversion kits?
Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.
Not that I know of, and I don't see the point either.
Is there any such thing as an alps blue tactile? (Non clicky)
Nope! That would be unprecedented. Alps has never made a switch with the same color slider and switch top w/ out any differentiating differences like the stripe of SKCL Striped Amber. SKCM Cream/Cream Damp is a noticeably different shade and SKCL Cream is differentiated by the LED cutout for example. A tactile SKCM Blue and a clicky SKCM Blue would look the exact same on the outside.
Pretty sure those NEC Blues are just worn/need work.
Post by: OfTheWild on Fri, 03 February 2017, 23:30:06
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 04 February 2017, 00:22:56
I'm halfway through desoldering this V80 guys... you werent lying, this is insane. No lifted pads yet... but blisters on my left fingers from pulling hot switches while desoldering the inside of the pcb holes. :mad:
I never pulled any switches 'hot' but I made damn sure that there was NO solder left in the through hole and crossed my fingers when pulling the switches. Also pulling them carefully and slowly. Total build time was about 3-4 hours.
Post any pics?
Here is mine desoldered:
(http://i.imgur.com/AqvTRlN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JiGeal4.jpg)
This is what you don't want, from my first time. That's the inside of the through hole on the leg.
(http://i.imgur.com/F1EpvGC.jpg)
Post by: childofthehorn on Sat, 04 February 2017, 00:50:05
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: OfTheWild on Sat, 04 February 2017, 02:19:18
I'm halfway through desoldering this V80 guys... you werent lying, this is insane. No lifted pads yet... but blisters on my left fingers from pulling hot switches while desoldering the inside of the pcb holes. :mad:
I never pulled any switches 'hot' but I made damn sure that there was NO solder left in the through hole and crossed my fingers when pulling the switches. Also pulling them carefully and slowly. Total build time was about 3-4 hours.
Post any pics?
Here is mine desoldered:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AqvTRlN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JiGeal4.jpg)
This is what you don't want, from my first time. That's the inside of the through hole on the leg.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/F1EpvGC.jpg)
Yup, i think our experiences are looking very similar. I did pull out the back of a tube a few switches in before realizing just how thick this pcb is and how much solder was still left deep down in there. I was lucky though, i managed to get it back in place and new "dampened cream" soldered in.
Heres some pics, kinda tough to see (sorry for cellphone photos). Also added a "staged" photo of how i'm attempting to get the switch out while heating back and forth on each leg and wiggling the switch back and forth... moving it a mm at a time on some. Some i'm lucky and they just let go as soon as the solder melts. Needless to say, this is hands down the most difficult board i've had to work with (and I literally just spent last week with a TKL Leopold where every switch was bent and soldered lol).
(http://i.imgur.com/o5WgyhGl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5riThP2l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gIlqITHl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PQrIQft.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/py6flAe.jpg)
Post by: OfTheWild on Sat, 04 February 2017, 02:22:26
Post by: schoolbus on Sat, 04 February 2017, 17:22:17
Now glorious Orange ALPS TKL with SGI granite / stock keycap mix. I'm sure my orange alps aren't as great as brand new but all things considered I'm extremely happy with this, orange alps feel really great and might have the best sound of any switch I've used.
here's a potato photo.
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 04 February 2017, 17:27:52
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 04 February 2017, 17:58:50
[attach=1]
The converter plugs into the header on the keyboard PCB. I then plugged a micro-USB cable with a panel-mount micro-USB connector into the converter and installed the panel-mount connector inside the case of the keyboard after drilling the holes for the screws and access to the connector. I widened and shaped the access hole as needed using small curved hand files.
At first, I tried using a micro-USB cable with panel-mount connector that I had purchased from DataPro -- these work perfectly inside the Northgate Omnikey 101, but this connector is a bit too large for the Zenith case. I was happy to discover that Adafruit now carries both mini-USB and micro-USB cables with panel-mount connectors. The Adafruit connectors are smaller than the ones from DataPro, and I was able to fit the Adafruit connector into the Zenith case.
[attach=2]
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3258
The Zenith 163-73 is AT protocol, so it would not be necessary to use an Orihalcon-Soarer converter, but I like to remap keys to a HHKB-esque layout. On the Zenith, I use the oversized Right Brace as my Backspace and the 1u Backslash to the right of Right Shift as my Fn key.
I have also click-modded the Zenith by replacing the switch top housings with those from SKCM white (pine) Alps and adding the white Alps click leaves. I kept all the other parts from the yellow Alps switches. I am typing on the board now, and I really enjoy the sound and feel of the switches in the Zenith chassis. This has turned out to be my best Alps board yet -- no issues at all with binding, unresponsive keys, or chattering keys.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 04 February 2017, 19:58:48
I'm just happy with the normal layout. Just modded with SKCL Striped Ambers and a black XT badge. Perfect OEM+ style imo.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 04 February 2017, 20:01:13
Also switched back to the Packard as a daily. Forgot how good it is :eek: Wonderful slick solid pingy SKCM Blue in a normal ANSI layout :p
Post by: Wingklip on Sun, 05 February 2017, 02:09:25
Are there any ADB to PS/2 conversion kits?
Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.
Not that I know of, and I don't see the point either.Is there any such thing as an alps blue tactile? (Non clicky)
Nope! That would be unprecedented. Alps has never made a switch with the same color slider and switch top w/ out any differentiating differences like the stripe of SKCL Striped Amber. SKCM Cream/Cream Damp is a noticeably different shade and SKCL Cream is differentiated by the LED cutout for example. A tactile SKCM Blue and a clicky SKCM Blue would look the exact same on the outside.
Pretty sure those NEC Blues are just worn/need work.
NEC tactile blues? All of them are equally tactile and Not clicky. I could've sword I saw the alps logo on the top as well.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 05 February 2017, 12:57:14
Are there any ADB to PS/2 conversion kits?
Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.
Not that I know of, and I don't see the point either.Is there any such thing as an alps blue tactile? (Non clicky)
Nope! That would be unprecedented. Alps has never made a switch with the same color slider and switch top w/ out any differentiating differences like the stripe of SKCL Striped Amber. SKCM Cream/Cream Damp is a noticeably different shade and SKCL Cream is differentiated by the LED cutout for example. A tactile SKCM Blue and a clicky SKCM Blue would look the exact same on the outside.
Pretty sure those NEC Blues are just worn/need work.
NEC tactile blues? All of them are equally tactile and Not clicky. I could've sword I saw the alps logo on the top as well.
Get it and lets find out! :p
Post by: E3E on Sun, 05 February 2017, 12:59:58
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 05 February 2017, 14:07:28
He had the NEC 8100 boards, but they had SKCM Blue alps, not NEC switches. :P
I know. I just called them NEC blues since they are SKCM Blues from a NEC board.
Interested to find out about that other one that is claimed to be tactile :)
Post by: E3E on Sun, 05 February 2017, 15:25:09
Post by: OfTheWild on Sun, 05 February 2017, 16:14:03
lol, looks like you were literally me this weekend. I got the V80 w/ Fukka switches on Friday and desoldered it (truly was a pain in the ass, excessive amounts of flux and tip tinning helped a lot though), had a lifted pad & trace that I fixed with jumpers so all is well now.
Now glorious Orange ALPS TKL with SGI granite / stock keycap mix. I'm sure my orange alps aren't as great as brand new but all things considered I'm extremely happy with this, orange alps feel really great and might have the best sound of any switch I've used.
here's a potato photo.
Nice, I will admit i did life a trace and had to super glue the pad back in and then I scratched some bare copper along the path and added a line of solder. Unfortunately this was a trace on the "top" of the pcb so i had to desolder my ambitiously added creams and separate the plate and pcb. That way I could do the repair and then file the solder blobs flush with the PCB so the switch sat level. All said and done, it was probably the most challenging desolder i've done.
Heres my notes for anyone doing this V80 board in the future:
Tip1: Keep your solder iron at 680-700 F. Don't get greedy and go up to 900 for lead-free, - i think the pads/tubes are just placed and not glued in.
Tip2: Once you suck out the majority of the lead-free from the factory, add rosin core leaded solder... and once it soaks into the existing garbage, suck it all out much easier and cleaner.
Tip3: Go slow with pulling the switches out. Heat each side and try to break it loose to wiggle back and forth rather than tugging.. because you'll pull a pad off the top side really really easily.
Complete:
V80 with cream.
(http://i.imgur.com/PUWfbou.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/a8wtfbR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3UzYYiv.jpg?2)
Many thanks to 'Henz' for supplying all the parts for this project
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 05 February 2017, 17:34:50
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 05 February 2017, 17:40:53
For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches :rolleyes:
(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)
It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.
The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.
(http://i.imgur.com/4tOpLpD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZwMQq6w.jpg)
Post by: schoolbus on Sun, 05 February 2017, 18:48:20
Looks like it came out well!
For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches :rolleyes:
(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)
It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.
The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/4tOpLpD.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZwMQq6w.jpg)
holy hell lol, and I thought I had it bad. Impressive!
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 05 February 2017, 18:58:37
Indeed. Looks like a snake pit or a telephone switchboard from the 1940s.Looks like it came out well!
For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches :rolleyes:
(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)
It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.
The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/4tOpLpD.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZwMQq6w.jpg)
holy hell lol, and I thought I had it bad. Impressive!
Post by: OfTheWild on Sun, 05 February 2017, 20:45:57
Nice V80 transformation. Where did you source the keycaps?
I'm not completely sure but the grey kit is a taobao set i think, and the blue modifiers were something else. I bought them, along with the vintage cream dampened switches, from Henz. I would have loved to use more of the blue mods but they have cherry based stabs and the v80 uses something stupid as you can see from my pics.
Looks like it came out well!
For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches :rolleyes:
(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)
It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.
The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/4tOpLpD.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZwMQq6w.jpg)
Thats just crazy lol I did notice that there are traces on top and bottom depending on which switch pole you're going to... I did pop out the pad for the scroll lock on my second switch in and realizing the "gentle or bust" warnings for this were no joke... but luckily it was the non-trace side so it didn't matter in the end. I was not so lucky for that O switch that i ended up doing an arts-n-crafts project on - all hidden under the switch though.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 05 February 2017, 21:24:52
Nice V80 transformation. Where did you source the keycaps?
I'm not completely sure but the grey kit is a taobao set i think, and the blue modifiers were something else. I bought them, along with the vintage cream dampened switches, from Henz. I would have loved to use more of the blue mods but they have cherry based stabs and the v80 uses something stupid as you can see from my pics.
That would be the Tai Hao Olivette set. :) The light blue keys are bits from the Badwrench Alps DCS Infinity Modifiers kit.
Post by: OfTheWild on Mon, 06 February 2017, 03:33:21
Nice V80 transformation. Where did you source the keycaps?
I'm not completely sure but the grey kit is a taobao set i think, and the blue modifiers were something else. I bought them, along with the vintage cream dampened switches, from Henz. I would have loved to use more of the blue mods but they have cherry based stabs and the v80 uses something stupid as you can see from my pics.
That would be the Tai Hao Olivette set. :) The light blue keys are bits from the Badwrench Alps DCS Infinity Modifiers kit.
Ah very cool, thanks!
Post by: yuppie on Mon, 06 February 2017, 09:39:20
why i gotta like the rare ****?
Post by: OfTheWild on Mon, 06 February 2017, 10:16:58
Post by: E3E on Mon, 06 February 2017, 13:40:53
(http://i.imgur.com/J0ZeUgb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EGf6jJRg.jpg)
Got this for a crazy deal. Only $23, but the caps are definitely shined a tad. It's interesting. The profile is similar to the C.Itoh PBT cap profile, but the top row is different and the bottom row is more like the ASDF row on the Itoh caps, whereas the Itoh caps' bottom row is the same as the row above it.
The itohs have deep dish homing; these have none. The Multistation caps are definitely unique to both of these profiles.
I'm curious to see if the Yamaha MSX hi pros are more similar to the ICL One Per Desk profile or are unique unto themselves. For now, I'm only looking for interesting caps and cap profiles, especially sphericals.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 06 February 2017, 13:58:30
One of the final bits and pieces I've been searching for in terms of switches. Now the only switches I've never used (that we know of) is Alps SKCL Heavy Cream and Alps SKCL Heavy Grey.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/J0ZeUgb.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EGf6jJRg.jpg)
Got this for a crazy deal. Only $23, but the caps are definitely shined a tad. It's interesting. The profile is similar to the C.Itoh PBT cap profile, but the top row is different and the bottom row is more like the ASDF row on the Itoh caps, whereas the Itoh caps' bottom row is the same as the row above it.
The itohs have deep dish homing; these have none. The Multistation caps are definitely unique to both of these profiles.
I'm curious to see if the Yamaha MSX hi pros are more similar to the ICL One Per Desk profile or are unique unto themselves. For now, I'm only looking for interesting caps and cap profiles, especially sphericals.
Dude where did you find that?! :eek:
Always been wanting to find one of those. What Alps does it have?
Those are the same caps as my little Canon.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 06 February 2017, 14:09:51
Either way would be interested in some for my switch collection ;)
Source:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/canon-typewriter-keyboards-t4242.html
Post by: E3E on Mon, 06 February 2017, 14:35:48
If its like this it could be either SKCM Cream (which is supposedly heavier than normal Cream) or SKCM Black. Also it has couple of SKCL Greens, and those weird white slider ones.
Either way would be interested in some for my switch collection ;)
Source:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/canon-typewriter-keyboards-t4242.html
I'd talk to Parak if you want to get one of his. He still has them, but he's incredibly lazy about selling/shipping them, so I wouldn't count on it. I got mine from eBay. It wasn't functional, and the seller was willing to part out the keyboard. You Apple IIc and 5140 hounds might understand the process.
It has OG SKCM Cream, as in the generation before NeXT's, but it doesn't feel much different if you ask me. I haven't tested back to back, but my initial impression is that they're quite similar. I need to open one up to see if jacobolus' memory of the tops being symmetrical like SKCM Brown is correct.
There's also the SKCL Double Action switch, which is weird and wouldn't have any real function on a standard PCB unless you handwired it or did some DIY modding on a PCB to give the second action a different function.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 06 February 2017, 14:49:51
Welp, I don't want to scavange through a ton of 15+ lb typewriters for them. Lol. I doubt it's worth it.
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 06 February 2017, 15:34:04
... The profile is similar to the C.Itoh PBT cap profile, but the top row is different and the bottom row is more like the ASDF row on the Itoh caps, whereas the Itoh caps' bottom row is the same as the row above it.
The itohs have deep dish homing; these have none. The Multistation caps are definitely unique to both of these profiles.
I'm curious to see if the Yamaha MSX hi pros are more similar to the ICL One Per Desk profile or are unique unto themselves...
Will these these Alps hi pros caps be ever produced again?
Alps enthusiasts love to be hopeful that Alps switches will slowly conquer the world for its quality being indeed superior than the modern MX switches (especial the tactile and clicky). However, the market share for Alps switch are indeed on a decline: there has not been any group buy running for Alps key caps for a while, and Tai Hao is not producing caps for Alps switches any longer, and the latest iterations of Korean PCB makers did not add support for Alps switches to their new products.
For many times in history, certain technology or product dominated the market and eliminated its competitors not because it was actually better than the others. There are many other factors than just qualities. I would say MX switches provide users from beginner to advanced enthusiasts a more holistic experience and a lot more rooms to actualize what they want from finished products to customization from springs and key caps to keyboard kits. There is no need to harvest (e.g. only very cheap people will harvest the caps from SkiDATA keyboards) or to convert any board unless you are hunting for some of the most exotic and hyped experiences, e.g. Nixies. On the other hand, the options for Alps switches are very limited (more limited than the past) and this forces users to stick to only a few options or behave like organ harvesters. Of course there are vintage boards collectors that take a similar path of the even more limited choice, e.g. buckling springs and live with Soarer's converters and alike and accustom themselves to various vintage layouts.
What will a user choose?
A hard path (scavengers / organ harvesters / converters builders) or otherwise boring path (e.g. almost only V60/V80 boards, or a few selection of common vintage boards)?
Or a path that has nearly every opportunities already created for you? e.g. switches, switches mods, new caps of different makes and profiles and even those Artisan caps, and many options of keyboard kits.
Post by: squidman on Wed, 08 February 2017, 20:16:07
Post by: E3E on Wed, 08 February 2017, 21:44:30
Got a focus 2001 from my uncle. it's great though too bad it isn't nkro. Is there anyway to mod it for nkro with diodes?
This is what I had wished when I got my NTC 6151N (my first alps board), but I killed it instead of fixing it how I had hoped. I'm not an expert in circuitry though. If the keyboard doesn't have blocking programmed into the controller, then I suppose it might be possible. My FAME TH-5539 and NTC 6151N did not have blocking.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 17:42:18
WOW
(http://i.imgur.com/rHcvpH0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dMnd3i5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tQkd9Ga.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZbxtZfF.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 09 February 2017, 17:44:17
Holy ****, I had NO CLUE it was THIS BIG :eek:
WOWShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/rHcvpH0.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/dMnd3i5.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/tQkd9Ga.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZbxtZfF.jpg)
No better time to start a small business. You've pretty much got a POS cash register board, lmao. :p
That thing is ridiculous.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 17:54:51
Inside:
(http://i.imgur.com/XTbmTJL.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 17:56:12
Post by: E3E on Thu, 09 February 2017, 18:09:59
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 19:16:30
What do?
I would be loving a normal K104 right now
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 19:20:33
So I took it completely apart, and put it back together. I don't know what to do with it. I really like SMK but the typing angle is too extreme for me and the size is massive. From the pictures I didn't have a clue it was this big. I can't get it going right now since I need to find out the pinout of the PCB to hook up a PS/2 cable I bought.haha sorry, It is a pretty huge board, and I figured the photos showed it well. Those switches are really nice and clean, shining examples of monterey blues. If you want to build a case for it that would be pretty cool!
What do?
I would be loving a normal K104 right now
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 19:25:08
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 19:42:45
So I took it completely apart, and put it back together. I don't know what to do with it. I really like SMK but the typing angle is too extreme for me and the size is massive. From the pictures I didn't have a clue it was this big. I can't get it going right now since I need to find out the pinout of the PCB to hook up a PS/2 cable I bought.haha sorry, It is a pretty huge board, and I figured the photos showed it well. Those switches are really nice and clean, shining examples of monterey blues. If you want to build a case for it that would be pretty cool!
What do?
I would be loving a normal K104 right now
Yea they are really nice. One of the switches isn't clicky though.
BTW, the box I shipped it in was the original box, hopefully the board and box arrived in OK shape. I figured it was packed quite well in that box.
Yea it came fine.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 19:43:44
Not really sure.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 20:05:18
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 22:15:58
I would rate SMK better than SKCM White from my experience. At least the SKCM White i've tried. They might be better in something like an Omnikey or simply better condition switches. Still I would call SMK an underrated switch.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 22:17:30
Listing the Monterey, its just ain't for me :( Can't always win I guess. Anyone interested?Sorry you didn't like it :(
I would rate SMK better than SKCM White from my experience. At least the SKCM White i've tried. They might be better in something like an Omnikey or simply better condition switches. Still I would call SMK an underrated switch.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 22:24:08
Listing the Monterey, its just ain't for me :( Can't always win I guess. Anyone interested?Sorry you didn't like it :(
I would rate SMK better than SKCM White from my experience. At least the SKCM White i've tried. They might be better in something like an Omnikey or simply better condition switches. Still I would call SMK an underrated switch.
It's fine man, don't worry about it. You win some, and you lose some. It wasn't just the case, the switches are nice but I don't see myself using it even with a normal case. SKCM Blue is just that good lol. This is the same problem I had with the FK-3001.
How you liking it btw?
Excited for my Cherry G80-11800 to come anyway. Unlike my last one this has the rarer thick pbt!
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 22:41:06
I really like the 3001. I put on thick PBT alphas, the ones from the z150 set you sent me, and that makes the keyfeel sublime. I dont like them quite as much as I like my skcm cream, but the switches in the 3001 are in absolutely awesome condition. I added it to my rotation :)Listing the Monterey, its just ain't for me :( Can't always win I guess. Anyone interested?Sorry you didn't like it :(
I would rate SMK better than SKCM White from my experience. At least the SKCM White i've tried. They might be better in something like an Omnikey or simply better condition switches. Still I would call SMK an underrated switch.
It's fine man, don't worry about it. You win some, and you lose some. It wasn't just the case, the switches are nice but I don't see myself using it even with a normal case. SKCM Blue is just that good lol. This is the same problem I had with the FK-3001.
How you liking it btw?
Excited for my Cherry G80-11800 to come anyway. Unlike my last one this has the rarer thick pbt!
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 23:09:01
I really like the 3001. I put on thick PBT alphas, the ones from the z150 set you sent me, and that makes the keyfeel sublime. I dont like them quite as much as I like my skcm cream, but the switches in the 3001 are in absolutely awesome condition. I added it to my rotation :)
Good. Certainly getting more use out of it than I did.
Just keep it nice and white :p
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 23:27:17
Post by: E3E on Thu, 09 February 2017, 23:31:02
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 23:31:20
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 10 February 2017, 14:37:22
Every switch diodes inside, FML :(
Almost done now, but a full boards worth in-switch-diodes was not what I had in mind for today.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 10 February 2017, 15:20:55
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 10 February 2017, 16:06:34
I bought a Unitek K-155 to try out this whole vintage black dealio. After desoldering close to 10 alps boards and a million bent pins, I thought desoldering a Cherry board would be a piece of cake. After getting all the main pins done, I just noticed that none of them were coming out.
Every switch diodes inside, FML :(
Almost done now, but a full boards worth in-switch-diodes was not what I had in mind for today.
honestly once you're used to bending back the alps pins, they are way easier to desolder than cherry switches especially ones that are PCB-mounted and have diodes.
Cherry sucks, but the switches in the end are nicer. alps is just overall meh.
The switches themselves are a bit dirty and the switchplates almost look tarnished so I don't know what to do with that. They are about as smooth as modern blacks at this point.
Sold a bunch of my zealios and found a cheap board with vintage clears so I may give ergos a shot. Among all my boards right now, I am heading towards having only one containing modern switches.
Alps still have the better overall lineup and its going to be tough beating out SKCL greens as my favorite linear switch.
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 10 February 2017, 16:15:08
I bought a Unitek K-155 to try out this whole vintage black dealio. After desoldering close to 10 alps boards and a million bent pins, I thought desoldering a Cherry board would be a piece of cake. After getting all the main pins done, I just noticed that none of them were coming out.
Every switch diodes inside, FML :(
Almost done now, but a full boards worth in-switch-diodes was not what I had in mind for today.
honestly once you're used to bending back the alps pins, they are way easier to desolder than cherry switches especially ones that are PCB-mounted and have diodes.
Cherry sucks, but the switches in the end are nicer. alps is just overall meh.
:eek:
Then you want to keep your Olive VE.A and sell that epic Black VE.A with Alps? :))
I just want to have a bit of everything before I finally pick my favorite, I can just say I find Cherry browns absolutely awful and Cherry blues weird, while Cherry clears seem acceptable. I have to compare Cherry clears and Alps dampened creams side by side one day, I think they're similar in some sense. Perhaps MX greens vs Alps SKCM browns. Anyways, the delayed tactile bump of MX design seems to be incurable.
For linear, I already can tell I probably like the smoother MX blacks better than SKCL green Alps.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 10 February 2017, 16:45:05
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 10 February 2017, 16:45:43
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 10 February 2017, 22:14:31
So got my Cherry G80-11800 today and I fully cleaned up and it is pretty nice actually. It is from 1997, so its an early 11800, which also has the thick PBT keycaps.
Unlike before I'm liking these MX Browns quite a bit. They can't be compared to modern Browns. Much smoother and less bumpy. The thicker caps add enough weight to the feel that it feels balanced. In the past Brown felt a bit too light and Clear was too heavy for me.
Man, why and when did Cherry drop the ball, if they still made switches like these people would not be complaining about them as much.
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 11 February 2017, 15:02:55
(http://i.imgur.com/HcIxdhN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SLfEXeM.jpg)
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 11 February 2017, 15:08:32
I bought a Unitek K-155 to try out this whole vintage black dealio. After desoldering close to 10 alps boards and a million bent pins, I thought desoldering a Cherry board would be a piece of cake. After getting all the main pins done, I just noticed that none of them were coming out.
Every switch diodes inside, FML :(
Almost done now, but a full boards worth in-switch-diodes was not what I had in mind for today.
honestly once you're used to bending back the alps pins, they are way easier to desolder than cherry switches especially ones that are PCB-mounted and have diodes.
Cherry sucks, but the switches in the end are nicer. alps is just overall meh.
This describes the alps experience so well :))
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 11 February 2017, 15:14:57
The new sandblasting finish from lasergist is super good.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HcIxdhN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SLfEXeM.jpg)
Wow that looks amazing. Orange alps are a great choice, what caps are you going with?
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 11 February 2017, 15:28:11
The new sandblasting finish from lasergist is super good.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HcIxdhN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SLfEXeM.jpg)
Wow that looks amazing. Orange alps are a great choice, what caps are you going with?
At the moment I will be using the mixture of Taohao caps between the currently on-sale set and the old Focus FK. I also has the pbt set from an IBM Multistation that I bought on taobao. However that set is missing the ANSI Enter cap. I will need to find someone who's willing to let that go. The PBT set from the Multistation is definitely the end game for this board.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 11 February 2017, 17:02:31
Cherry sucks, but the switches in the end are pretty terrible. alps is just overall great.
This describes the alps experience so well :))
I couldn't agree more.
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 12 February 2017, 08:19:12
For me SKCL Brown > Vintage Blacks. That's also because I enjoy the shorter throw. I feel like the longer stroke of a Cherry MX switch can also exaggerate smoothness to an extent.
Rarity as I've observed:
SKCL Browns > SKCM Neon Greens > SKCM Browns > SKCL Greens >> MX Vintage Blacks
Of course, in terms of rarity, Striped Ambers and Ambers are above them.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 12 February 2017, 12:51:33
For me SKCL Brown > Vintage Blacks. That's also because I enjoy the shorter throw. I feel like the longer stroke of a Cherry MX switch can also exaggerate smoothness to an extent.
Rarity as I've observed:
SKCL Browns > SKCM Neon Greens > SKCM Browns > SKCL Greens >> MX Vintage Blacks
Of course, in terms of rarity, Striped Ambers and Ambers are above them.
I would replace SKCL Green with SKCM Cream (non damp). SKCL Green isn't actually that rare, but I would call it uncommon.
Common to me is SKCM Black, SKCM Cream Damp and SKCM White.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 12 February 2017, 13:13:08
SKCM white might be subdivided into pine and bamboo versions, and there might even be further subcategories (e.g., length of slits in the pine version; type of plastic in the sliders; and presence or absence of dry lubricant).For me SKCL Brown > Vintage Blacks. That's also because I enjoy the shorter throw. I feel like the longer stroke of a Cherry MX switch can also exaggerate smoothness to an extent.
Rarity as I've observed:
SKCL Browns > SKCM Neon Greens > SKCM Browns > SKCL Greens >> MX Vintage Blacks
Of course, in terms of rarity, Striped Ambers and Ambers are above them.
I would replace SKCL Green with SKCM Cream (non damp). SKCL Green isn't actually that rare, but I would call it uncommon.
Common to me is SKCM Black, SKCM Cream Damp and SKCM White.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 12 February 2017, 13:40:11
Post by: E3E on Sun, 12 February 2017, 14:19:28
For me SKCL Brown > Vintage Blacks. That's also because I enjoy the shorter throw. I feel like the longer stroke of a Cherry MX switch can also exaggerate smoothness to an extent.
Rarity as I've observed:
SKCL Browns > SKCM Neon Greens > SKCM Browns > SKCL Greens >> MX Vintage Blacks
Of course, in terms of rarity, Striped Ambers and Ambers are above them.
I would say that there is a split between pine and bamboo SKCM Greens though. I'd place SKCM Green (pine) as a little MORE rare than SKCL Brown, because pine is seldom seen from DocuTechs.
So it'd be like SKCM Green (pine) > SKCL Brown > SKCM Green (bamboo) > SKCL Cream > SKCM Amber > SKCM Brown > SKCM Cream > ??? (it starts getting into the common end here. I'd say SKCM Blue next).
The last three are not necessarily rare in my eyes because there seems to be no shortage of 5140 and Apple IIc computers. I rarely see the Bondwell 8T Pro laptops though. The NeXT boards are thinning out, but Canon Typewriters in the AP _50 series always seem to have SKCM Cream as long as the LED indicator is rectangular.
There's also a rare Sharp keyboard that might be full of SKCL Cream, but I'd say in general that the switch is rare to find in an entire board.
Post by: cumwagondeluxe on Sun, 12 February 2017, 14:33:40
For me SKCL Brown > Vintage Blacks. That's also because I enjoy the shorter throw. I feel like the longer stroke of a Cherry MX switch can also exaggerate smoothness to an extent.
Rarity as I've observed:
SKCL Browns > SKCM Neon Greens > SKCM Browns > SKCL Greens >> MX Vintage Blacks
Of course, in terms of rarity, Striped Ambers and Ambers are above them.
I would say that there is a split between pine and bamboo SKCM Greens though. I'd place SKCM Green (pine) as a little MORE rare than SKCL Brown, because pine is seldom seen from DocuTechs.
So it'd be like SKCM Green (pine) > SKCL Brown > SKCM Green (bamboo) > SKCL Cream > SKCM Amber > SKCM Brown > SKCM Cream > ??? (it starts getting into the common end here. I'd say SKCM Blue next).
The last three are not necessarily rare in my eyes because there seems to be no shortage of 5140 and Apple IIc computers. I rarely see the Bondwell 8T Pro laptops though. The NeXT boards are thinning out, but Canon Typewriters in the AP _50 series always seem to have SKCM Cream as long as the LED indicator is rectangular.
There's also a rare Sharp keyboard that might be full of SKCL Cream, but I'd say in general that the switch is rare to find in an entire board.
I wish it was easier to find parts or to get people to part out their 5140s or IIcs, though - I found a 5140 the other day in great condition and the guy wanted $100 for it, which was OK for me but shipping would've been an additional $100 :/
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 12 February 2017, 15:08:04
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 12 February 2017, 15:57:15
Would you say NOS bamboo white is worse than a good condition old pine white alps switch?I think the context was about relative rarity rather than perceived quality. Regarding your question, it is likely that a NOS or NIB bamboo white Alps will function perfectly with no binding or scratchiness, but (IMO) it will not sound as good as a "good condition" pine white Alps switch and it might not feel as good, either, depending on just how well the old pine white Alps have been preserved. However, especially when it comes to sound, one man's music is another man's noise.
Post by: Tuntematon on Sun, 12 February 2017, 16:25:49
Would you say NOS bamboo white is worse than a good condition old pine white alps switch?
SKCM Pine are the only good white Alps. I wouldn't bother with anything else, regardless of condition.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 12 February 2017, 16:30:18
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 13 February 2017, 04:19:31
Would you say NOS bamboo white is worse than a good condition old pine white alps switch?
Just my very subjective opinion based on limited experience: no bamboo Alps will be better than its pine counterparts, or I can even say, no bamboo Alps is good. It seems to me whenever the switches on a keyboard feel quite good, it ended up pine switches are in there, and whenever they don't feel so good, and I will see bamboos when I pop a cap. It's not only just the sound to me.
There must be something, because Bloggers in Japan say similar things that pines are superior to bamboos. But one can say some rare bamboos are good, e.g. Neon green bamboos, because not many people have tried them.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 13 February 2017, 06:41:22
Would you say NOS bamboo white is worse than a good condition old pine white alps switch?
Just my very subjective opinion based on limited experience: no bamboo Alps will be better than its pine counterparts, or I can even say, no bamboo Alps is good. It seems to me whenever the switches on a keyboard feel quite good, it ended up pine switches are in there, and whenever they don't feel so good, and I will see bamboos when I pop a cap. It's not only just the sound to me.
There must be something, because Bloggers in Japan say similar things that pines are superior to bamboos. But one can say some rare bamboos are good, e.g. Neon green bamboos, because not many people have tried them.
I think those are the ONLY rare bamboos to speak of, aside from maybe SKBL Yellow? I think those are a thing. Maybe some of the linear bamboos are fine, but the lack of slits does change the sense of the switch being crisp.
Even with bamboo SKCM Green, the crispness is gone. It's unique because it creates this oddly rounded linear-ish tactile feeling that's more of like a "hump" than it is a sheer peak that you see in other tactile switches. Because SKCM Brown and SKCM Green share a similar feel, and the fact that SKCM Brown has a unique top and cannot accept a bamboo top, SKCM Green bamboos are rather unique.
That said, I actually like SKCM Green pines more, but having both is nice to compare. Overall, yeah--pines are better.
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 13 February 2017, 09:39:49
There's also a rare Sharp keyboard that might be full of SKCL Cream, but I'd say in general that the switch is rare to find in an entire board.
Quite rare. As of today it's the only non-unicorn (pine neon greens and striped amber's I'm looking at you!) SKCL/SKCM I'm missing. I'd like to get a keyboard's worth of them, but since 8T is so rare, I guess it's time to start hunting for early ZKB-2s.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 13 February 2017, 10:32:04
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 13 February 2017, 10:39:27
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 13 February 2017, 12:14:43
I had a single SKCL cream that I gave to someone here...
It was the spacebar for a sharp typewriter (from hell btw @mandrewdavis ) LOL...
It was good.
I think that was me lol.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 13 February 2017, 17:32:52
I had a single SKCL cream that I gave to someone here...
It was the spacebar for a sharp typewriter (from hell btw @mandrewdavis ) LOL...
It was good.
I still cannot get that board to work right, freaking nightmare. My secret santa was very kind to gift me a 60% Infinity with Dampened Whites and Alpine Winter. Since the Alps 64 PCB is acting up, I may take both boards apart and pair the typewriter caps/switch/plate combo with the Infinity PCB. Hopefully I won't ruin it by drilling the holes necessary to jump the spacebar. SKCL Greens <3
If anyone is interested in ~60 dampened whites, PM me
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 13 February 2017, 17:38:24
(http://i.imgur.com/1bDpCl6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/r8Vojje.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vKc8lSz.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 13 February 2017, 18:07:36
Post by: E3E on Mon, 13 February 2017, 18:56:17
Maximum keycap compatibility, stabilizer can be installed both north or south. My 1.75 Shift is actually in still in a bowl full of hydrogen peroxide.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1bDpCl6.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/r8Vojje.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vKc8lSz.jpg)
bro that's amazing, but the caps
👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎
He'll have some dope caps on them soon enough. :thumb:
Post by: ipreferpie on Mon, 13 February 2017, 19:05:22
Maximum keycap compatibility, stabilizer can be installed both north or south. My 1.75 Shift is actually in still in a bowl full of hydrogen peroxide.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1bDpCl6.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/r8Vojje.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vKc8lSz.jpg)
Excellent combo! I'm planning something similar but am looking to use /u/evangs upcoming DSA Lightcycle ALPS key set. Problem is that it will use MX stabilizers. Does anyone know how the VE.A ALPS plate will work with the proper compatible stabs? Thinking a Costar combo may work? Or perhaps some can design a plate that allows MX stabs?
Post by: E3E on Mon, 13 February 2017, 19:33:45
Maximum keycap compatibility, stabilizer can be installed both north or south. My 1.75 Shift is actually in still in a bowl full of hydrogen peroxide.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1bDpCl6.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/r8Vojje.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vKc8lSz.jpg)
Excellent combo! I'm planning something similar but am looking to use /u/evangs upcoming DSA Lightcycle ALPS key set. Problem is that it will use MX stabilizers. Does anyone know how the VE.A ALPS plate will work with the proper compatible stabs? Thinking a Costar combo may work? Or perhaps some can design a plate that allows MX stabs?
I do believe that Matias stabs and wire can be used for stabs that have MX-style stabilizers. You definitely won't have enough clearance with costar. You could modify standard Alps stabs to fit into the caps and then bend wire correctly for the stabs to sit properly, but again, I think Matias sells sets that will fit properly and work on Alp stab plates.
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 13 February 2017, 19:34:08
Excellent combo! I'm planning something similar but am looking to use /u/evangs upcoming DSA Lightcycle ALPS key set. Problem is that it will use MX stabilizers. Does anyone know how the VE.A ALPS plate will work with the proper compatible stabs? Thinking a Costar combo may work? Or perhaps some can design a plate that allows MX stabs?
It's actually a lot simpler than that, you just need the costar inserts
https://deskthority.net/w/images/c/c0/Tulip_ATK_030244_stabiliser_inserts.jpg
Like E3 said, you might run into clearance problem, but that could be fix by re-bending for shorter wire.
Post by: ipreferpie on Wed, 15 February 2017, 08:51:00
Excellent combo! I'm planning something similar but am looking to use /u/evangs upcoming DSA Lightcycle ALPS key set. Problem is that it will use MX stabilizers. Does anyone know how the VE.A ALPS plate will work with the proper compatible stabs? Thinking a Costar combo may work? Or perhaps some can design a plate that allows MX stabs?
It's actually a lot simpler than that, you just need the costar inserts
https://deskthority.net/w/images/c/c0/Tulip_ATK_030244_stabiliser_inserts.jpg (https://deskthority.net/w/images/c/c0/Tulip_ATK_030244_stabiliser_inserts.jpg)
Like E3 said, you might run into clearance problem, but that could be fix by re-bending for shorter wire.
perfect! I'll go ahead to order a few and see which options work best. Thanks :)
Also, is there anyone w/ experience that can install my ALPS holtite sockets in my VE.A PCB w/o killing it? Definitely needs precision drilling
Post by: E3E on Wed, 15 February 2017, 13:40:52
Excellent combo! I'm planning something similar but am looking to use /u/evangs upcoming DSA Lightcycle ALPS key set. Problem is that it will use MX stabilizers. Does anyone know how the VE.A ALPS plate will work with the proper compatible stabs? Thinking a Costar combo may work? Or perhaps some can design a plate that allows MX stabs?
It's actually a lot simpler than that, you just need the costar inserts
https://deskthority.net/w/images/c/c0/Tulip_ATK_030244_stabiliser_inserts.jpg (https://deskthority.net/w/images/c/c0/Tulip_ATK_030244_stabiliser_inserts.jpg)
Like E3 said, you might run into clearance problem, but that could be fix by re-bending for shorter wire.
perfect! I'll go ahead to order a few and see which options work best. Thanks :)
Also, is there anyone w/ experience that can install my ALPS holtite sockets in my VE.A PCB w/o killing it? Definitely needs precision drilling
Tricky to say. :P Yeah, it can be done, but even on my own builds, connections have to be repaired after that drilling process. The insertion of the holtites themselves is a pretty stressful process (both on the human performing the procedure and the PCB :P ).
I've never killed any of my boards while performing the mod at least, but it has been really stressful at points.
Post by: catawalks on Wed, 15 February 2017, 17:58:24
Listing the Monterey, its just ain't for me :( Can't always win I guess. Anyone interested?
I would rate SMK better than SKCM White from my experience. At least the SKCM White i've tried. They might be better in something like an Omnikey or simply better condition switches. Still I would call SMK an underrated switch.
Just got this behemoth today, man is it big. Thanks for the sale Mattr.
With a little toying around I was able to wire the keyboard PCB to an old Dell AT101 PS/2 cable I had laying around (the connector on that cable already fit the connector on the K104 PCB). The pinout, in case anyone else ever needs it, is as follows: 1. Clock 2. Data 3. Ground 4. VCC
I'll play with the typing experience more tomorrow or this weekend, for now I need to finish rebuilding this AEK II on my desk.
(http://I.imgur.com/5Eu2SQG.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 18:54:53
Listing the Monterey, its just ain't for me :( Can't always win I guess. Anyone interested?
I would rate SMK better than SKCM White from my experience. At least the SKCM White i've tried. They might be better in something like an Omnikey or simply better condition switches. Still I would call SMK an underrated switch.
Just got this behemoth today, man is it big. Thanks for the sale Mattr.
With a little toying around I was able to wire the keyboard PCB to an old Dell AT101 PS/2 cable I had laying around (the connector on that cable already fit the connector on the K104 PCB). The pinout, in case anyone else ever needs it, is as follows: 1. Clock 2. Data 3. Ground 4. VCC
I'll play with the typing experience more tomorrow or this weekend, for now I need to finish rebuilding this AEK II on my desk.Show Image(http://I.imgur.com/5Eu2SQG.jpg)
Glad to see you got it working!!!
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 18:58:45
Post by: E3E on Wed, 15 February 2017, 19:45:58
alps make your desk grow mold
I spray my Alps with mold remover with 3 months of protection so I don't have to worry about any of that.
Post by: catawalks on Wed, 15 February 2017, 19:51:44
alps make your desk grow mold
I spray my Alps with mold remover with 3 months of protection so I don't have to worry about any of that.
I should give that a shot. I always thought it was the years of no mouse pad. Turns out I'm just dirty.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 20:12:13
Either pic embedding is not working, or I forgot how to do that stuff.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 20:55:24
I heard it through the grapevine that there was a batch of striped amber boards found recently, but not recognized for what they were, so they ended up in the grinder.damn kids andHere's a pic of a kitten to make y'all feel better.
Either pic embedding is not working, or I forgot how to do that stuff.
their crayons lmao
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 21:11:43
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 21:16:40
fick youI heard it through the grapevine that there was a batch of striped amber boards found recently, but not recognized for what they were, so they ended up in the grinder.damn kids ans their crayons lmaoHere's a pic of a kitten to make y'all feel better.
Either pic embedding is not working, or I forgot how to do that stuff.
ans their speiing!!
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 21:32:22
I heard it through the grapevine that there was a batch of striped amber boards found recently, but not recognized for what they were, so they ended up in the grinder.Here's a pic of a kitten to make y'all feel better.
Either pic embedding is not working, or I forgot how to do that stuff.
Evidence? I need links!
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 21:53:09
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 15 February 2017, 22:00:20
I'll keep it hear-say. But source is very reputable. Scrounging kind of reputable ;)
Hmm. Well that sucks. Assuming they were Tandem's. If they knew it was some kind of Alps why would they throw it away? Even the worst Alps is worth keeping in some sort of way.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 15 February 2017, 23:09:09
There is no worst alps! Heathen.I'll keep it hear-say. But source is very reputable. Scrounging kind of reputable ;)
Hmm. Well that sucks. Assuming they were Tandem's. If they knew it was some kind of Alps why would they throw it away? Even the worst Alps is worth keeping in some sort of way.
Nah actually stock SKCM Black are kind of gross.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 15 February 2017, 23:12:01
I'll keep it hear-say. But source is very reputable. Scrounging kind of reputable ;)
As that source, I would want to keep quiet too. That is a ton of guilt to be carrying around - OR - IT WAS A BIG CONSPIRACY TO KEEP STRIPED AMBERS SUPER RARE! If Mattr can't have them, nobody can! :mad:
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 15 February 2017, 23:34:20
A main reason the SKCM Black seem so rough is because it feels like there are two tactile bumps, and the force graph confirms this. (http://i40.tinypic.com/1z6yujq.gif)
The idea is just to use a Cherry O-ring and wrap it around the slider to reduce the keytravel just enough that it doesn't get past that "second bump". So you end up with a much shorter travel but quieter and less rough feeling tactility.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0099.jpg)
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 15 February 2017, 23:48:34
(http://i.imgur.com/9NPE1bx.jpg)
Its heavier, it sounds quieter. It feels pretty good to me. Sorry i didnt do a before and after sound test.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 16 February 2017, 05:17:14
Hey guys I've got an idea for a mod for SKCM Blacks that might help the roughness a bit.That's an interesting idea actually. I advocate either linearising black Alps, or clickifying them - the increased tactility makes you shoot past the second tactile bump, so the keyfeel is much cleaner.
A main reason the SKCM Black seem so rough is because it feels like there are two tactile bumps, and the force graph confirms this.Show Image(http://i40.tinypic.com/1z6yujq.gif)
The idea is just to use a Cherry O-ring and wrap it around the slider to reduce the keytravel just enough that it doesn't get past that "second bump". So you end up with a much shorter travel but quieter and less rough feeling tactility.Show Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0099.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 16 February 2017, 05:54:16
Hey guys I've got an idea for a mod for SKCM Blacks that might help the roughness a bit.That's an interesting idea actually. I advocate either linearising black Alps, or clickifying them - the increased tactility makes you shoot past the second tactile bump, so the keyfeel is much cleaner.
A main reason the SKCM Black seem so rough is because it feels like there are two tactile bumps, and the force graph confirms this.Show Image(http://i40.tinypic.com/1z6yujq.gif)
The idea is just to use a Cherry O-ring and wrap it around the slider to reduce the keytravel just enough that it doesn't get past that "second bump". So you end up with a much shorter travel but quieter and less rough feeling tactility.Show Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0099.jpg)
Could you also bend the tactile leaf to increase the tactility and get a similar effect?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 16 February 2017, 07:02:53
Could work in theory, yes, although it's pretty hard to bend all the leaves in a whole board CONSISTENTLY to the same degree.Hey guys I've got an idea for a mod for SKCM Blacks that might help the roughness a bit.That's an interesting idea actually. I advocate either linearising black Alps, or clickifying them - the increased tactility makes you shoot past the second tactile bump, so the keyfeel is much cleaner.
A main reason the SKCM Black seem so rough is because it feels like there are two tactile bumps, and the force graph confirms this.Show Image(http://i40.tinypic.com/1z6yujq.gif)
The idea is just to use a Cherry O-ring and wrap it around the slider to reduce the keytravel just enough that it doesn't get past that "second bump". So you end up with a much shorter travel but quieter and less rough feeling tactility.Show Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0099.jpg)
Could you also bend the tactile leaf to increase the tactility and get a similar effect?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 16 February 2017, 07:33:13
The idea is just to use a Cherry O-ring and wrap it around the slider to reduce the keytravel just enough that it doesn't get past that "second bump". So you end up with a much shorter travel but quieter and less rough feeling tactility.
I seem to remember trying O-rings on Alps back a long time ago, with unacceptable results. My recollection is that travel was reduced to near zero, weirdly so.
Maybe I will locate to find my O-rings (I have thin soft ones and also dental bands) and try it again.
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 16 February 2017, 09:23:06
Hey guys I've got an idea for a mod for SKCM Blacks that might help the roughness a bit.[/spoiler]
A main reason the SKCM Black seem so rough is because it feels like there are two tactile bumps, and the force graph confirms this.Show Image(http://i40.tinypic.com/1z6yujq.gif)
The idea is just to use a Cherry O-ring and wrap it around the slider to reduce the keytravel just enough that it doesn't get past that "second bump". So you end up with a much shorter travel but quieter and less rough feeling tactility.Show Image(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/WhiteFireDragon/keyboard/IMG_0099.jpg)
I've done this from time to time on just a few particularly noisy switches (e.g., Enter, Shift, Spacebar) on Alps boards, but I ended up removing the O-rings. I didn't like the feel or the reduced travel, and the rings tend to slip off with time and use anyway.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 February 2017, 09:35:09
I'll keep it hear-say. But source is very reputable. Scrounging kind of reputable ;)
As that source, I would want to keep quiet too. That is a ton of guilt to be carrying around - OR - IT WAS A BIG CONSPIRACY TO KEEP STRIPED AMBERS SUPER RARE! If Mattr can't have them, nobody can! :mad:
You mean I have them, and nobody (but E3E) can! :P /s
Post by: E3E on Thu, 16 February 2017, 11:18:16
I'll keep it hear-say. But source is very reputable. Scrounging kind of reputable ;)
As that source, I would want to keep quiet too. That is a ton of guilt to be carrying around - OR - IT WAS A BIG CONSPIRACY TO KEEP STRIPED AMBERS SUPER RARE! If Mattr can't have them, nobody can! :mad:
You mean I have them, and nobody (but E3E) can! :P /s
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
(http://i.imgur.com/ZFz3YRW.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 16 February 2017, 11:45:08
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 16 February 2017, 14:18:48
Yes, the possibilities for modded Alps are practically endless!I'll keep it hear-say. But source is very reputable. Scrounging kind of reputable ;)
As that source, I would want to keep quiet too. That is a ton of guilt to be carrying around - OR - IT WAS A BIG CONSPIRACY TO KEEP STRIPED AMBERS SUPER RARE! If Mattr can't have them, nobody can! :mad:
You mean I have them, and nobody (but E3E) can! :P /s
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZFz3YRW.jpg)
[attach=1]
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 16 February 2017, 14:47:51
You too can have them!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MEzGOQj.jpg)Show Image(http://www.scaryforkids.com/pics/red-crayon.jpg)
Please.
I didn't know the //c has Alps. You never would have known because that god awful rubber pad under the keys that makes every keystroke require something like 1000 grams of force
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 16 February 2017, 14:52:41
some IIcs have alps, not all. any with a rubber pad wont have alps.You too can have them!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MEzGOQj.jpg)Show Image(http://www.scaryforkids.com/pics/red-crayon.jpg)
Please.
I didn't know the //c has Alps. You never would have known because that god awful rubber pad under the keys that makes every keystroke require something like 1000 grams of force
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 16 February 2017, 14:56:53
That explains why i was so taken aback when i saw that. I learned to type on a //c. I will never stop hating it either.some IIcs have alps, not all. any with a rubber pad wont have alps.You too can have them!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/MEzGOQj.jpg)Show Image(http://www.scaryforkids.com/pics/red-crayon.jpg)
Please.
I didn't know the //c has Alps. You never would have known because that god awful rubber pad under the keys that makes every keystroke require something like 1000 grams of force
Post by: E3E on Thu, 16 February 2017, 18:43:56
Yes, the possibilities for modded Alps are practically endless!I'll keep it hear-say. But source is very reputable. Scrounging kind of reputable ;)
As that source, I would want to keep quiet too. That is a ton of guilt to be carrying around - OR - IT WAS A BIG CONSPIRACY TO KEEP STRIPED AMBERS SUPER RARE! If Mattr can't have them, nobody can! :mad:
You mean I have them, and nobody (but E3E) can! :P /s
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:DShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZFz3YRW.jpg)
(Attachment Link)
I think S. Ambers will forever confuse people who aren't aware of them. "Oh, those are just ambers that some kids marked up! GET RID OF EM. I HATE APPLE IICs"
The Amber oppression continues.
Why else do you think SKCM Ambers are the loudest of the Alps clicky switches?
Post by: kawasaki161 on Fri, 17 February 2017, 06:34:21
plates.
The options for ALPS layouts are almost endless, and the type of stabilizers used is also not always the same for different keysets even if they use the same layout. Making matters worse, ALPS plates that support multiple layouts aren't really a thing (at least not to my knowledge). Since this will be a small production run with both ALPS and Cherry options I also can't offer many ALPS plate options without having them priced at or close to one-off pricing, I think two options is the highest I can go.
Since my experience with ALPS is very limited I now want to ask more knowledgeable people (you) about this. Which layouts should I support (and what kind of stabs do they use)? And which plate material would work best?
My current plans are to definitely support the AEK layout, as this is rather commonly available and the caps are of pretty good quality.
But then I'm left with only one other option, and even that will probably only make MOQ problems worse. My current idea for that one is either the V60 layout to have support for Tai Hao ALPS caps, or a standard 60% layout using cherry stabilizers in order to support future Signature Plastics sets.
Or, if MOQ is too much of a problem, I will just offer one plate option (probably AEK) and make the plate files available for everyone to get their own plate made, but this is also a huge pita for the consumer at the end.
Next up is the plate material, options are alu, steel and brass. I can probably only choose one of these, as I imagine the amount of ALPS orders will be pretty small. I'd love to see brass as this would probably be one of the first times that this is offered, but if that makes it less desirable for many people I will probably settle for alu or steel.
I hope you guys can give me some insight in this part of the hobby and help me with deciding for the options that please the majority.
Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for answers and help.
Edit:
I might have found a solution to part of the plate layout problem, but I don't have the stuff at hand to check if it works. Can someone please check for me if a standard 2u Costar wire fits into a 2.25u ALPS cap? If yes that would mean I can use the Matias adaptors for those keys and support both ALPS stabilizer based keycaps and Cherry stabilizer based ones (with the same layout) with one plate which would make things a lot easier.
Edit2:
I just found the one Costar wire I knew I still had somewhere. Bad news: doesn't fit as is. Good news: it's only off by a tiny bit and just having these Matias adapters should make for enough clearance.
Edit 3: Scrap that, I should have checked before, but 2u and 2.25u ALPS caps might have differently spaced stabmounts, at least I don't know if they are the same or not. I still need one of you guys to check that for me as I don't have a 2.25u ALPS cap
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 18 February 2017, 07:26:44
Post by: zombimuncha on Sat, 18 February 2017, 08:22:28
Use Alps plate-mount stabs and wires, and use the keycap-stab-mount appropriate for the specific keycap. The Alps wires fit in either kind of keycap-mounts.
The only tricky bit is you have to bend the wire to shape a little for use with costar/cherry style keycap-mounts. So if you want to switch between SP (cherry-style cruciform stab mounts) caps and standard alps caps, you would also swap your stab wires - stock for alps, bent for SP. The Matias stabilizer kit has everything you need. Even the 2.75 stab wire is long enough after bending, although it'll probably need to be a little bit diagonal in the corners. Assuming you have a costar-style stab on your spacebar, you can use that spacebar wire as a template for where to bend the other stab wires.
Another option, if you're designing the plate, is to include two sets of holes for mounting alps-style mounts, like this: http://matias.ca/60/pc/viewer/?p=5
One for costar, one for alps. That way you can use costar wires with SP caps and not have to worry about bending any wires.
But really you should make a separate IC thread instead of discussing it here.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 18:55:37
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 18 February 2017, 20:42:49
You can tell by the back label what switch type it holds. S or non S, copyright dates, and country of manufacture, label type etc.
I think that those 1989 copyrights are pretty rare.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 21:01:46
Post by: ShawnMeg on Sat, 18 February 2017, 21:21:32
For some reason i've been craving a AEK II with SKCM Salmon. Right now there aren't any on ebay though :( You can tell by the back label what switch type it holds. S or non S, copyright dates, and country of manufacture, label type etc.
I picked up one recently, and it's sweet. In fact, I'm typing this message with that board. Perhaps it's the novelty, but I put the AEK II with Salmons as my number 2 favorite board after my Model F 122. I'm enjoying the sound and feel. I also have an AEK with Salmons. They're excellent switches.
There's a listing for an AEK with salmons:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272559493798?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272559493798?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
It might be priced somewhat steep given that oranges have gone for less, but then again, the salmons are more rare. Dell AT101's with salmons go for a pretty penny.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 18 February 2017, 21:23:12
I still got an alps board ;)Nice wrist restShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/A76uO8Z.jpg)
I am actually cleaning the caps tonight, but I wanted to use it a bit more first.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 21:26:56
Post by: E3E on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:28:28
I still got an alps board ;)Nice wrist restShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/A76uO8Z.jpg)
I am actually cleaning the caps tonight, but I wanted to use it a bit more first.
dont feel the trolls :mad:
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:31:36
You can tell by the back label what switch type it holds. S or non S, copyright dates, and country of manufacture, label type etc.
I think that those 1989 copyrights are pretty rare.
Yea. SKCM Salmons may be the rarest AEKII, more than the Japanese one with Mitsumi's. There are actually two of those on ebay right now with 1989 copyrights but only USA mades one are Salmon. As far as we know all Japanese made AEKII's are Mitsumi.
I would also love a Japense sublegend AEKII, but you can only get those off Japanese auction websites, and right now there aren't any :( Plus the fact that finding a AEKII that has Salmon AND sublegends would prove to be difficult. Salmon > Sublegends. My last and only AEKII has Cream Damp, they were ok but I grew tired of the rubbery bottoming out feeling.
Funny how I seem to be buying all my old boards back. Recently bought a G80-11800 again but with the thick PBT, me like :))
For some reason i've been craving a AEK II with SKCM Salmon. Right now there aren't any on ebay though :( You can tell by the back label what switch type it holds. S or non S, copyright dates, and country of manufacture, label type etc.
I picked up one recently, and it's sweet. In fact, I'm typing this message with that board. Perhaps it's the novelty, but I put the AEK II with Salmons as my number 2 favorite board after my Model F 122. I'm enjoying the sound and feel. I also have an AEK with Salmons. They're excellent switches.
There's a listing for an AEK with salmons:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272559493798?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272559493798?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
It might be priced somewhat steep given that oranges have gone for less, but then again, the salmons are more rare. Dell AT101's with salmons go for a pretty penny.
Lucky /s
I'm looking for a AEKII specfially. Don't know why but I like the AEKII more, and the fact that they go for a lot cheaper. Nice to see a AEKII break free of its usual dampening.
Where did you get yours? Looked on ebay's sold area and found only two Salmon boards sold in the last 2-3 months.
Post by: subcat on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:34:06
Post by: E3E on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:36:43
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:38:18
Mattr, I have an AEKII with Japanese sublegends on the way. I will let you know when it arrives :thumb:
Do you know if it has SKCM Salmon?? Made in USA 1989 or 1990 with no S in the bottom right corner.
So its going to go from Japan to Australia to America, ok then :p
I actually like the original AEK much more than the AEK II, but I'd never want SKCM Salmons in any of my boards. I'm very much not a fan of that boring switch. It's a shame, since I really like the fish.
So you don't like SKCM Orange then? It's only a weight difference really.
Post by: subcat on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:42:01
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:44:24
There is a chance - it is made in the USA. However, the seller didn't provide a complete photo of the back label, so I can't check for the S.
Do you know what year? Should be in the same area of the label if the right where the S is cutoff. 1989 and 1990 Salmon exist but I don't think 1989 Cream does.
Post by: subcat on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:48:00
https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0301/users/9/2/2/8/hn0912jp-img600x450-1484734670kcbdtk8040.jpg
Post by: E3E on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:48:23
So you don't like SKCM Orange then? It's only a weight difference really.
I've had multiple Dell AT101s and an AEK with Salmons and they never felt pleasing to me. I like SKCM Oranges, but neither of them are switches I'm head over heels about using. I like SKCM Cream (NeXT) better than either of them.
The lightness of SKCM Orange is an appealing aspect, but I've always felt SKCM Salmons to feel a bit more tactile but also weirdly sterile. Just not a fan of them.
SKCM Creams have a sound that's very much like SKCM Blue but without the click. I'd describe it as "choppy." Sounds like a chop. :P Not all switches have that. I'd say only SKCM Blue and Cream have it so distinctively.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:55:30
Again, no idea. Only pic of the label provided was this:
https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0301/users/9/2/2/8/hn0912jp-img600x450-1484734670kcbdtk8040.jpg
Welp, that's SKCM White Damp, you can tell by the new style logo.
So you don't like SKCM Orange then? It's only a weight difference really.
I've had multiple Dell AT101s and an AEK with Salmons and they never felt pleasing to me. I like SKCM Oranges, but neither of them are switches I'm head over heels about using. I like SKCM Cream (NeXT) better than either of them.
The lightness of SKCM Orange is an appealing aspect, but I've always felt SKCM Salmons to feel a bit more tactile but also weirdly sterile. Just not a fan of them.
SKCM Creams have a sound that's very much like SKCM Blue but without the click. I'd describe it as "choppy." Sounds like a chop. :P Not all switches have that. I'd say only SKCM Blue and Cream have it so distinctively.
Yea I have to agree with you on the SKCM Cream, it is special and reminds me of SKCM Blue. Orange and Salmon are very similar to me. Must be the weight of SKCM Salmon for you. I do see a odd appeal to the 'sterile' feel of Salmon though.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 18 February 2017, 22:56:35
SKCM Cream is the best alps switch hands downAgain, no idea. Only pic of the label provided was this:
https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0301/users/9/2/2/8/hn0912jp-img600x450-1484734670kcbdtk8040.jpg
Welp, that's SKCM White Damp, you can tell by the new style logo.So you don't like SKCM Orange then? It's only a weight difference really.
I've had multiple Dell AT101s and an AEK with Salmons and they never felt pleasing to me. I like SKCM Oranges, but neither of them are switches I'm head over heels about using. I like SKCM Cream (NeXT) better than either of them.
The lightness of SKCM Orange is an appealing aspect, but I've always felt SKCM Salmons to feel a bit more tactile but also weirdly sterile. Just not a fan of them.
SKCM Creams have a sound that's very much like SKCM Blue but without the click. I'd describe it as "choppy." Sounds like a chop. :P Not all switches have that. I'd say only SKCM Blue and Cream have it so distinctively.
Yea I have to agree with you on the SKCM Cream, it is special and reminds me of SKCM Blue. Orange and Salmon are very similar to me. Must be the weight of SKCM Salmon for you. I do see a odd appeal to the 'sterile' feel of Salmon though.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 18 February 2017, 23:09:38
Mattr, I have an AEKII with Japanese sublegends on the way. I will let you know when it arrives :thumb:
I always loved the look of those, Japanese sublegends just add to the novelty of AEK caps.
Post by: subcat on Sat, 18 February 2017, 23:51:23
Post by: E3E on Sun, 19 February 2017, 00:00:59
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 19 February 2017, 00:34:13
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 19 February 2017, 02:23:08
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
Post by: chyros on Sun, 19 February 2017, 06:30:31
When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
Post by: Entropia on Sun, 19 February 2017, 08:29:50
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 19 February 2017, 09:22:48
Of all the vintage keyboards in your extensive arsenal, why did you make the ZKB-2R your weapon of choice for writing your thesis?When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
Post by: chyros on Sun, 19 February 2017, 09:42:02
I type on it reasonably quickly, and it's fairly silent - I work in an open office, so even just tactile Alps are rather loud. Plus, it has a very accessible layout - although I type faster on my M0116 and Pingmaster, their layouts are just weird enough that it makes a difference in the long run. Besides, it's already quite heavily used, so a bit more use won't matter - I try to keep my best boards a bit pristine. Also, it's got great desk presence. I SO WANT a NIB ZKB-2.Of all the vintage keyboards in your extensive arsenal, why did you make the ZKB-2R your weapon of choice for writing your thesis?When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 19 February 2017, 10:55:59
I don't have a ZKB-2 or ZKB-2R, but I have a close relative, the Zenith 163-73. I am typing on it now. This one has been my most successful "click mod" to date. I installed top housings and click leaves from white (pine) Alps. With other Alps keyboards that I have converted from linear or tactile to clicky, I have usually ended up with some flaky switches (intermittently unresponsive or chattering), but all the hybridized switches in the Zenith 163-73 work perfectly.I type on it reasonably quickly, and it's fairly silent - I work in an open office, so even just tactile Alps are rather loud. Plus, it has a very accessible layout - although I type faster on my M0116 and Pingmaster, their layouts are just weird enough that it makes a difference in the long run. Besides, it's already quite heavily used, so a bit more use won't matter - I try to keep my best boards a bit pristine. Also, it's got great desk presence. I SO WANT a NIB ZKB-2.Of all the vintage keyboards in your extensive arsenal, why did you make the ZKB-2R your weapon of choice for writing your thesis?When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
The layout on the Zenith 163-173 also works well for me. I've installed an internal Orihalcon-Soarer converter along with a panel-mount micro-USB connector, and I've done my customary remapping to a HHKB-esque configuration. The split Right Shift is perfect for the Fn key and the supersized Right Bracket serves as the Backspace (Fn+Right Bracket = Right Bracket).
I like typing on the modified Zenith, but in retrospect I think it might have been better to install lighter springs -- I kept the yellow Alps springs, which feel somewhat heavy. I would also like to improve the aesthetics of the board by acquiring a black label Zenith badge to replace the "tree logo" emblem. (However, you were ahead of me advertising for a black badge, so you get first pick if one turns up).
I also don't really need any of the keys outside of the main typing area, and I am most accustomed to using a 60% form factor keyboard. You have exhorted me to bite the bullet and take up soldering again, so I intend to build my own 60% Alps board based on Hasu's Alps64 PCB. I am thinking of using clickified orange Alps for the build.
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 19 February 2017, 11:06:13
I still got an alps board ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/A76uO8Z.jpg)
I am actually cleaning the caps tonight, but I wanted to use it a bit more first.
Hold onto it. Your interest in Alps will rekindle one day, no later than when people start to realize Cherry should have done a much better job in its modern productions. Reading the DT Thread about MX switch as the best switch design debate, a lot of fun. :p
P.s. OMG, still haven't cleaned the caps yet? :eek:
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 19 February 2017, 12:32:02
Everything works, but I am disappointed by the sound and feel of this keyboard. The sound is overtly hollow and the key action feels clunky. Nevertheless, I am considering giving the board a thorough cleaning and doing a click-mod on the switches by taking out the tactile leaves and replacing them with click leaves from white Alps switches. I might also try padding the case with some silicone foam.
This thing is also BIG. It seems bigger than my Northgate Omnikey 101 -- it is in fact wider, although not quite as deep. Because the upper bezel on the AEK is an unbroken expanse, it gives the impression of being deeper than it is. In any event, after using my HHKB Pro 2 sports car most of the time, typing on the AEK is like driving a 1960 Chevy Impala.
Would it be worth the trouble to refurbish the AEK and click-mod the switches, or would it be better to harvest the switches and caps for use in a custom build?
Post by: chyros on Sun, 19 February 2017, 13:26:07
Perhaps surprisingly because of how relatively common they are, I don't actually own a yellow Alps board, so I couldn't tell anything about them — but, I have to say that green Alps are weighted perfectly, and that really contributes to why I like them so much. They're just light enough that typing on them feels almost effortless, but not light enough that you keep accidentally actuating them. It's sublime. I really wonder how well I'll like yellows, considering that. Would be interesting.I don't have a ZKB-2 or ZKB-2R, but I have a close relative, the Zenith 163-73. I am typing on it now. This one has been my most successful "click mod" to date. I installed top housings and click leaves from white (pine) Alps. With other Alps keyboards that I have converted from linear or tactile to clicky, I have usually ended up with some flaky switches (intermittently unresponsive or chattering), but all the hybridized switches in the Zenith 163-73 work perfectly.I type on it reasonably quickly, and it's fairly silent - I work in an open office, so even just tactile Alps are rather loud. Plus, it has a very accessible layout - although I type faster on my M0116 and Pingmaster, their layouts are just weird enough that it makes a difference in the long run. Besides, it's already quite heavily used, so a bit more use won't matter - I try to keep my best boards a bit pristine. Also, it's got great desk presence. I SO WANT a NIB ZKB-2.Of all the vintage keyboards in your extensive arsenal, why did you make the ZKB-2R your weapon of choice for writing your thesis?When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
The layout on the Zenith 163-173 also works well for me. I've installed an internal Orihalcon-Soarer converter along with a panel-mount micro-USB connector, and I've done my customary remapping to a HHKB-esque configuration. The split Right Shift is perfect for the Fn key and the supersized Right Bracket serves as the Backspace (Fn+Right Bracket = Right Bracket).
I like typing on the modified Zenith, but in retrospect I think it might have been better to install lighter springs -- I kept the yellow Alps springs, which feel somewhat heavy. I would also like to improve the aesthetics of the board by acquiring a black label Zenith badge to replace the "tree logo" emblem. (However, you were ahead of me advertising for a black badge, so you get first pick if one turns up).
I also don't really need any of the keys outside of the main typing area, and I am most accustomed to using a 60% form factor keyboard. You have exhorted me to bite the bullet and take up soldering again, so I intend to build my own 60% Alps board based on Hasu's Alps64 PCB. I am thinking of using clickified orange Alps for the build.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 19 February 2017, 16:55:26
Very nice. But for only typing I think I prefer some delicious click clack from SKCM Whites!When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 19 February 2017, 17:15:06
Some time ago, I purchased an Apple Extended Keyboard from eBay. Today I finally got around to typing on it (typing on it now) after connecting it to my USB hub with a Griffin iMate ADB to USB converter. Despite the relatively high serial number (643257) (and non-yellowed case), this one has orange Alps switches.
Everything works, but I am disappointed by the sound and feel of this keyboard. The sound is overtly hollow and the key action feels clunky. Nevertheless, I am considering giving the board a thorough cleaning and doing a click-mod on the switches by taking out the tactile leaves and replacing them with click leaves from white Alps switches. I might also try padding the case with some silicone foam.
This thing is also BIG. It seems bigger than my Northgate Omnikey 101 -- it is in fact wider, although not quite as deep. Because the upper bezel on the AEK is an unbroken expanse, it gives the impression of being deeper than it is. In any event, after using my HHKB Pro 2 sports car most of the time, typing on the AEK is like driving a 1960 Chevy Impala.
Would it be worth the trouble to refurbish the AEK and click-mod the switches, or would it be better to harvest the switches and caps for use in a custom build?
In my own experience I think it's the case that contributes to the poor sound and feel. I believe the rubber tabs that hold the plate together are the main culpit. The rubber tabs soften the downstrokes by a lot. The thin plate and the plastic case further worsen the overall typing experience. The downstrokes just seem overly hollow and non-distinctive. My first time trying out Orange Alps on an AEKII, I was sorely disappointed on how boring the sound was.
Casing contributes a lot toward the feel of Alps switches in general. The worst offender I have tried so far is the Datamac 101e. Not only that, they bent every single pin so desoldering was a pain in the ass. My favorite case so far for Alps switch is the Monarch. The super thick 2mm plate is unyielding yet somehow matches perfectly with blue Alps. With the Monarch, blue Alps have responsive and consistent upstrokes, while the sound is bassy and warm to the ears.
Bonus shots: here is Lord Cat overlooks his empire:
(http://i.imgur.com/e6QrMft.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gyfBeuc.jpg)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 19 February 2017, 17:19:58
You could always click-mod the Zenith. I did this with a Zenith 163-73 (same layout as the ZKB-2 and ZKB-2R). The native 163-73 has nice dye-sub PBT keycaps and SKCL yellow Alps switches. I replaced the switch tops with those from SKCM white (pine) Alps and added white Alps click leaves. This is now one of my favorite Alps-switch keyboards.Very nice. But for only typing I think I prefer some delicious click clack from SKCM Whites!When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
Alternatively, you could go straight to a white Alps board. If you don't mind the Focus layout, some FK-2001 boards have SKCM white Alps, but this model number could have any of a half-dozen types of switches.
The DT wiki has a comprehensive list of keyboards with SKCM white Alps switches:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_White
My own favorite white Alps board is the Northgate Omnikey 101, but this model in excellent condition tends to be expensive.
Post by: catawalks on Sun, 19 February 2017, 17:22:03
I mean, I have some SKCM Salmons I want to get rid of, so Mattr can always just buy those and then buy the Japanese AEK II and set up a happy compromise, haha.
How many SKCM Salmons are you talking about? And might I inquire as to their availability to other members? I might be interested in a set of those if it were a full set for the right price.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 19 February 2017, 17:22:23
Sounds better, I agree, but I actually type slower on them. Besides, the office would hold a lynch party if I brought the OmniKey along xD .Very nice. But for only typing I think I prefer some delicious click clack from SKCM Whites!When school starts in a few months I'm going to splurge a bit and get myself a great condition full size board like an FK-2001 and use it as my dedicated typing keyboard.You should, I wrote my entire PhD thesis on a ZKB-2R! :D
Should make writing boring essays much more tolerable!
Post by: E3E on Sun, 19 February 2017, 17:29:33
I mean, I have some SKCM Salmons I want to get rid of, so Mattr can always just buy those and then buy the Japanese AEK II and set up a happy compromise, haha.
How many SKCM Salmons are you talking about? And might I inquire as to their availability to other members? I might be interested in a set of those if it were a full set for the right price.
I got them from an AT101, so there's 101 of them. I planned on selling them for $40 shipped.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 19 February 2017, 17:33:49
My favorite switches are SKCL Brown overall. I still haven't spent an extensive amount of time with SKCL Striped Ambers though. Still waiting for the Alphas PCB to come in along with some other things.
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 19 February 2017, 17:36:16
I don't find that I type slower on clicky or tactile versus linear unless the switches bind.I have a feeling that SKCL Brown feel a lot like Gateron Yellows.
My favorite switches are SKCL Brown overall. I still haven't spent an extensive amount of time with SKCL Striped Ambers though. Still waiting for the Alphas PCB to come in along with some other things.
Post by: baloo25 on Sun, 19 February 2017, 19:01:07
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 19 February 2017, 19:57:04
Post by: catawalks on Sun, 19 February 2017, 20:06:08
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G3eCPdn.jpg?1)
That a nice repurposing of the AEKII keyset.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 19 February 2017, 20:07:34
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G3eCPdn.jpg?1)
What took you so long :O
Seriously PBT keycaps only require some soap, some scrubbings, and blow dry in cool heat. All in less than 15 mins.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 19 February 2017, 21:55:47
Post by: ShawnMeg on Sun, 19 February 2017, 23:23:07
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G3eCPdn.jpg?1)
What took you so long :O
Seriously PBT keycaps only require some soap, some scrubbings, and blow dry in cool heat. All in less than 15 mins.
I tried some dental tabs for the first time a couple weeks ago on some PBT caps, and it almost completely eliminated the scrubbing. I just bought the cheapest stuff from Dollar Tree, and it worked fine.
Post by: cumwagondeluxe on Mon, 20 February 2017, 02:00:18
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 February 2017, 14:21:04
Anyone have really good condition SKCL Greens here? I purchased a baggy of them a while back, and most of the switches in the bag had a fairly significant tactile bump (not super large or anything, but it was instantly noticeable) just before bottoming out - maybe like 0.2mm before bottom out or something. Tried some more at a meet and was surprised to find that the tactile bump was almost non-existant - you could still tell it was there if you looked for it or pressed the key down pretty slowly but I'm not sure if I would notice it at all typing at full force/speed. What's normal for an SKCL green in really good condition? Visually speaking, both mine and the ones I tried seemed to be in similar condition.
Clean them? That's the only reason I can think of.
Or it sounds like their binding a bit.
Post by: cumwagondeluxe on Mon, 20 February 2017, 14:30:58
Anyone have really good condition SKCL Greens here? I purchased a baggy of them a while back, and most of the switches in the bag had a fairly significant tactile bump (not super large or anything, but it was instantly noticeable) just before bottoming out - maybe like 0.2mm before bottom out or something. Tried some more at a meet and was surprised to find that the tactile bump was almost non-existant - you could still tell it was there if you looked for it or pressed the key down pretty slowly but I'm not sure if I would notice it at all typing at full force/speed. What's normal for an SKCL green in really good condition? Visually speaking, both mine and the ones I tried seemed to be in similar condition.
Clean them? That's the only reason I can think of.
Or it sounds like their binding a bit.
So there shouldn't really be a bump of any sort right before bottoming out, then? Damn :/ There's no visible dust/dirt on em or anything, so I can't imagine a bit of dust would cause such a wildly different feel. I did open one of them up and just push back the contact leaf a bit which made it feel like the one I tried at the meetup but I'm not sure how they even got to the state they're currently in anyway - in theory, over time the leaf should be bending back so they become more linear as opposed to the other way around.. maybe whoever I bought em off messed with em?
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 February 2017, 14:50:37
Anyone have really good condition SKCL Greens here? I purchased a baggy of them a while back, and most of the switches in the bag had a fairly significant tactile bump (not super large or anything, but it was instantly noticeable) just before bottoming out - maybe like 0.2mm before bottom out or something. Tried some more at a meet and was surprised to find that the tactile bump was almost non-existant - you could still tell it was there if you looked for it or pressed the key down pretty slowly but I'm not sure if I would notice it at all typing at full force/speed. What's normal for an SKCL green in really good condition? Visually speaking, both mine and the ones I tried seemed to be in similar condition.
Clean them? That's the only reason I can think of.
Or it sounds like their binding a bit.
So there shouldn't really be a bump of any sort right before bottoming out, then? Damn :/ There's no visible dust/dirt on em or anything, so I can't imagine a bit of dust would cause such a wildly different feel. I did open one of them up and just push back the contact leaf a bit which made it feel like the one I tried at the meetup but I'm not sure how they even got to the state they're currently in anyway - in theory, over time the leaf should be bending back so they become more linear as opposed to the other way around.. maybe whoever I bought em off messed with em?
No, all Alps have a little bump before bottoming out, that's just how it is. The ones at the meetup were probably different feeling b/c they were in a board rather than being loose switches.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 20 February 2017, 18:20:55
Anyone have really good condition SKCL Greens here? I purchased a baggy of them a while back, and most of the switches in the bag had a fairly significant tactile bump (not super large or anything, but it was instantly noticeable) just before bottoming out - maybe like 0.2mm before bottom out or something. Tried some more at a meet and was surprised to find that the tactile bump was almost non-existant - you could still tell it was there if you looked for it or pressed the key down pretty slowly but I'm not sure if I would notice it at all typing at full force/speed. What's normal for an SKCL green in really good condition? Visually speaking, both mine and the ones I tried seemed to be in similar condition.
Clean them? That's the only reason I can think of.
Or it sounds like their binding a bit.
So there shouldn't really be a bump of any sort right before bottoming out, then? Damn :/ There's no visible dust/dirt on em or anything, so I can't imagine a bit of dust would cause such a wildly different feel. I did open one of them up and just push back the contact leaf a bit which made it feel like the one I tried at the meetup but I'm not sure how they even got to the state they're currently in anyway - in theory, over time the leaf should be bending back so they become more linear as opposed to the other way around.. maybe whoever I bought em off messed with em?
No, all Alps have a little bump before bottoming out, that's just how it is. The ones at the meetup were probably different feeling b/c they were in a board rather than being loose switches.
Alps ruined for 80% of Cherry MX users.
It is kind of a shame that Alps has this in a way. I find Alps switches to be much smoother than MX (especially stock vs stock), but that little bump does prevent it from being entirely smooth. I honestly never really notice it, but it is definitely there and can be felt with a slow, deliberate press.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 20 February 2017, 18:53:30
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 21 February 2017, 02:03:05
Anyone have really good condition SKCL Greens here? I purchased a baggy of them a while back, and most of the switches in the bag had a fairly significant tactile bump (not super large or anything, but it was instantly noticeable) just before bottoming out - maybe like 0.2mm before bottom out or something. Tried some more at a meet and was surprised to find that the tactile bump was almost non-existant - you could still tell it was there if you looked for it or pressed the key down pretty slowly but I'm not sure if I would notice it at all typing at full force/speed. What's normal for an SKCL green in really good condition? Visually speaking, both mine and the ones I tried seemed to be in similar condition.Yeah all Alps have a second smaller tactile bump shortly before bottom out.
Post by: Joey Quinn on Tue, 21 February 2017, 19:23:13
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 22 February 2017, 13:16:17
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232249215551
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232249216954
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232248410073
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232248208848
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 22 February 2017, 14:35:03
Post by: E3E on Wed, 22 February 2017, 15:39:46
So whose the one that bought all these Tandems today and yesterday?!!!?!?!? :eek:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232249215551
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232249216954
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232248410073
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232248208848
I'm just wondering which ones will have ambers and which ones will have browns. Can't go wrong with buying a Tandem, though seeing the seller slowly raise the price is kind of annoying.
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 22 February 2017, 15:45:35
So whose the one that bought all these Tandems today and yesterday?!!!?!?!? :eek:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232249215551
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232249216954
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232248410073
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232248208848
I'm just wondering which ones will have ambers and which ones will have browns. Can't go wrong with buying a Tandem, though seeing the seller slowly raise the price is kind of annoying.
Yea.
Read the Deskthority great interesting finds thread, all caught up now. For those wondering we know 2 of them were had by members but the other two we don't know yet.
Also two are Brown, other two we don't know.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 22 February 2017, 17:38:14
Yea.
Read the Deskthority great interesting finds thread, all caught up now. For those wondering we know 2 of them were had by members but the other two we don't know yet.
Also two are Brown, other two we don't know.
Linear brownsies! Let's see if any Striped Ambers pop up!
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 22 February 2017, 17:40:32
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 22 February 2017, 17:43:33
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 22 February 2017, 20:35:26
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 24 February 2017, 22:48:52
Clean too. It just needs some retrobright help. Also going to swap in SKCM Cream. I think Mike can help me with that ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/gtfKMU5.jpg)
Post by: subcat on Fri, 24 February 2017, 22:54:55
Post by: E3E on Fri, 24 February 2017, 23:46:07
Woo! Excited to get my Striped Amber - now I'm only missing SKCL Cream - assuming my Tandem 6526 comes with Browns. Thanks for the trade!
Hey, you grabbed one from eBay? :P
Post by: subcat on Sat, 25 February 2017, 00:17:10
I still need some SKCM Creams from that NeXt board of yours, by the way! :p
Post by: E3E on Sat, 25 February 2017, 00:48:38
Sure did! ...after the seller had tripled the price from the ones he originally sold :'(
I still need some SKCM Creams from that NeXt board of yours, by the way! :p
Yes yes, please PM me here! Reddit is a little chaotic at times.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 25 February 2017, 13:06:52
(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 25 February 2017, 13:13:57
I never thought I'd buy an FK-2001...IT WAS YOU! I was wondering who had managed to kidnap that thing from under me :p .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 25 February 2017, 13:37:20
I never thought I'd buy an FK-2001...IT WAS YOU! I was wondering who had managed to kidnap that thing from under me :p .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
I don't know why my first impulse was to laugh.
I feel like a villain.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 25 February 2017, 14:22:42
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 25 February 2017, 16:35:54
I never thought I'd buy an FK-2001...Handsome board! (Except for that BAE!).Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 25 February 2017, 17:37:12
Yeah, ewww, it's terrible, he should sell it to me instead - can't have an embarassingly ugly board like that.I never thought I'd buy an FK-2001...Handsome board! (Except for that BAE!).Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 25 February 2017, 18:57:04
Yeah, ewww, it's terrible, he should sell it to me instead - can't have an embarassingly ugly board like that.I never thought I'd buy an FK-2001...Handsome board! (Except for that BAE!).Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
I feel bad now, but I swear, this is the one time I actually message a seller with an offer that they go through with it. I've had so many occasions of "SURE, I'D BE HAPPY TO SELL TO YOU/SELL AT THAT PRICE -- NEVERMIND!!!" One of those was actually on a Focus FK-2001, as I'm sure Unfocused knows (it's fine though haha). Another was on a Packard Bell T9102. I mean, I completely understand letting it go to auction as opposed to taking offers, but it's still frustrating.
I know trying to close auctions early is a little lame, but people are prone to that. I backed out initially from buying it since I felt it was impulsive, but the seller shipped it anyway. xP
So beyond that, there's some interesting things to note so far:
Noting the other user and only documented case of this board on this forum (there was another someone sold here in 2011 with an apparently terribly rusted plate, but pictures hosted on this site beyond a certain year seem to all be broken), there's some differences.
1) His key caps seemed to have been pad printed. These are double shots from Tai Hao. I call them the missing link, since Tai Hao has a modern WoB set but it doesn't have the 7u bottom row included.
2) His board seemed to use clone switches. Mine uses genuine Alps SKCM White switches, pine.
This is strange since my serial number is higher than the one his had. Other than that, there's not too much to note I guess. The cable is in good condition, the board is in good shape. No rust, no heavy shine. Feels good.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 25 February 2017, 19:17:48
Hey man, all is fair in love and keyboards xD . I'll snag one someday :) .Yeah, ewww, it's terrible, he should sell it to me instead - can't have an embarassingly ugly board like that.I never thought I'd buy an FK-2001...Handsome board! (Except for that BAE!).Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
I feel bad now, but I swear, this is the one time I actually message a seller with an offer that they go through with it. I've had so many occasions of "SURE, I'D BE HAPPY TO SELL TO YOU/SELL AT THAT PRICE -- NEVERMIND!!!" One of those was actually on a Focus FK-2001, as I'm sure Unfocused knows (it's fine though haha). Another was on a Packard Bell T9102. I mean, I completely understand letting it go to auction as opposed to taking offers, but it's still frustrating.
I know trying to close auctions early is a little lame, but people are prone to that. I backed out initially from buying it since I felt it was impulsive, but the seller shipped it anyway. xP
So beyond that, there's some interesting things to note so far:
Noting the other user and only documented case of this board on this forum (there was another someone sold here in 2011 with an apparently terribly rusted plate, but pictures hosted on this site beyond a certain year seem to all be broken), there's some differences.
1) His key caps seemed to have been pad printed. These are double shots from Tai Hao. I call them the missing link, since Tai Hao has a modern WoB set but it doesn't have the 7u bottom row included.
2) His board seemed to use clone switches. Mine uses genuine Alps SKCM White switches, pine.
This is strange since my serial number is higher than the one his had. Other than that, there's not too much to note I guess. The cable is in good condition, the board is in good shape. No rust, no heavy shine. Feels good.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 25 February 2017, 19:48:42
Hey man, all is fair in love and keyboards xD . I'll snag one someday :) .
Hahaha. Well, if I do ever sell it, you'll be the first to know!
I'm surprised we've seen as many as we have. One last year, one so far in 2017. Before that it was high and dry, or so it seems. 2011 being the last time it was seen, or at least mentioned anywhere that I can find. Jeez.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 25 February 2017, 20:27:50
Yeah, ewww, it's terrible, he should sell it to me instead - can't have an embarassingly ugly board like that.I never thought I'd buy an FK-2001...Handsome board! (Except for that BAE!).Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/G7vuIFH.jpg)
...but I did.
I feel bad now, but I swear, this is the one time I actually message a seller with an offer that they go through with it. I've had so many occasions of "SURE, I'D BE HAPPY TO SELL TO YOU/SELL AT THAT PRICE -- NEVERMIND!!!" One of those was actually on a Focus FK-2001, as I'm sure Unfocused knows (it's fine though haha). Another was on a Packard Bell T9102. I mean, I completely understand letting it go to auction as opposed to taking offers, but it's still frustrating.
I know trying to close auctions early is a little lame, but people are prone to that. I backed out initially from buying it since I felt it was impulsive, but the seller shipped it anyway. xP
So beyond that, there's some interesting things to note so far:
Noting the other user and only documented case of this board on this forum (there was another someone sold here in 2011 with an apparently terribly rusted plate, but pictures hosted on this site beyond a certain year seem to all be broken), there's some differences.
1) His key caps seemed to have been pad printed. These are double shots from Tai Hao. I call them the missing link, since Tai Hao has a modern WoB set but it doesn't have the 7u bottom row included.
2) His board seemed to use clone switches. Mine uses genuine Alps SKCM White switches, pine.
This is strange since my serial number is higher than the one his had. Other than that, there's not too much to note I guess. The cable is in good condition, the board is in good shape. No rust, no heavy shine. Feels good.
Wait there was a Packard Bell T9102 on ebay? Where?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 25 February 2017, 20:53:34
Wait there was a Packard Bell T9102 on ebay? Where?
Yep, on eBay, and I had asked the seller if they'd be down with selling it for soooome amount. They initially agreed. Except they decided to let it go to auction instead, haha.
It didn't look as nice as yours. Yours is the only one I've seen to date without yellowing on the indicator label.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 25 February 2017, 21:32:08
The strange part is that the number pad is responsive. What gives? I tried changing the only electrolytic capacitor out. Maybe I'll have to end up buying a normal FK-2001 as a donor if I can't figure this out.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 26 February 2017, 05:29:58
Welp. looks like the FK-2001 has got some tissues. By that, I mean for some weird reason, the alpha grid is completely borked in terms of response. Like I type and sometimes it doesn't register, sometimes it does. Very unreliable.Sounds like one of the traces is buggered.
The strange part is that the number pad is responsive. What gives? I tried changing the only electrolytic capacitor out. Maybe I'll have to end up buying a normal FK-2001 as a donor if I can't figure this out.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 26 February 2017, 05:58:31
Welp. looks like the FK-2001 has got some tissues. By that, I mean for some weird reason, the alpha grid is completely borked in terms of response. Like I type and sometimes it doesn't register, sometimes it does. Very unreliable.Sounds like one of the traces is buggered.
The strange part is that the number pad is responsive. What gives? I tried changing the only electrolytic capacitor out. Maybe I'll have to end up buying a normal FK-2001 as a donor if I can't figure this out.
I was actually talking to Engicoder to help troubleshoot! We couldn't get to the bottom of it. I even replaced the ceramic resonator for a crystal oscillator pulled off of one of the Tandem PCBs, because we thought the resonator might've been screwy. Nope!
Turns out, the cheapest of all my converters made it work like a charm. This thing is picky!
Shibber my ****ing timbers.
I made this video for the eBay seller who was skeptical, but ended up figuring it out by the end of the video.
As you can tell, I'm also much too lazy to edit my videos. :))
Also... Orihalcyon... Halcon. Derp. I never looked too closely at Aram's user name. So much for assumptions!
Post by: E3E on Sun, 26 February 2017, 12:37:23
(http://i.imgur.com/JCD5g3L.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/T4iEuOg.jpg)
Ever since seeing the black FK-2001 with the bottom row that's missing with the modern Tai Hao sets, I wanted to try it out on the Orion.
I miss my Chinese PBT caps already. This is cool and all, but I don't know, meh.
Post by: Tuntematon on Sun, 26 February 2017, 16:33:40
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 26 February 2017, 16:42:43
I was actually talking to Engicoder to help troubleshoot! We couldn't get to the bottom of it. I even replaced the ceramic resonator for a crystal oscillator pulled off of one of the Tandem PCBs, because we thought the resonator might've been screwy. Nope!
Turns out, the cheapest of all my converters made it work like a charm. This thing is picky!
Shibber my ****ing timbers.
I made this video for the eBay seller who was skeptical, but ended up figuring it out by the end of the video.
As you can tell, I'm also much too lazy to edit my videos. :))
Also... Orihalcyon... Halcon. Derp. I never looked too closely at Aram's user name. So much for assumptions!
Does it work on straight PS/2? If so then its the converter. But if it only works on that cheapo USB converter than that's really weird.
I had a picky Z-150 once. Worked on PS/2 on Windows but not on Linux. So I tried on the blue cube but it didn't work at all. Then tried an active Adesso one and it worked on both OS's. The downside was that the LED's didn't light up but at least it worked. That Adesso one has worked on every keyboard since (including my FK-3001, so it might be good for your black 2001 as well). The 163-73 works just fine on Linux btw. Here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008ZPED/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Guess that's Windows backwards compatibility for ya :p Some 84 key keyboard driver or something.
Post by: UnFocused on Sun, 26 February 2017, 20:06:35
I feel bad now, but I swear, this is the one time I actually message a seller with an offer that they go through with it. I've had so many occasions of "SURE, I'D BE HAPPY TO SELL TO YOU/SELL AT THAT PRICE -- NEVERMIND!!!" One of those was actually on a Focus FK-2001, as I'm sure Unfocused knows (it's fine though haha).
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: E3E on Sun, 26 February 2017, 23:47:26
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
FINALLY GOT ONE!
Haha, how've you been, man? :)
I feel like white on black looks best in Cherry font. These are a maybe a little too reminiscent of present day, generic, cheapo Dell/HP etc. keyboards. Not really fair, 'cause these came first, but that's the vibe I get. Still, not a bad look.
Yeeeah, it definitely fit the OEM look I was going for. It was something I found cool as a concept, to make a custom look like an unassuming keyboard, but that's exactly what it looks like. It fulfills that purpose too well.
I'm now back to the 11 degree aluminum bottom and the Chinese PBT caps as stated. Ugh, what a pain though. The entire process took hours to go back and forth. :P Pulled some switches out because the Tai Hao caps are just that tight.
All good now though! The flat acrylic bottom is always really nice because of the view of that red PCB and the gold holtite sockets, but eh. That'd be good for a portable configuration since it makes the Orion laughably light. The weight is close to 8 lbs with the aluminum bottom with copper weight.
Does it work on straight PS/2? If so then its the converter. But if it only works on that cheapo USB converter than that's really weird.
I'm using a laptop as a DTR, so unfortunately, I have no PS/2 port to test with. Yeah, I'm glad it works at all, though I also don't see myself using it too often either. It's a really nifty board though.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 February 2017, 13:46:35
(http://i.imgur.com/Gh0KtqA.png)
^ Tandem 6526 with Striped Ambers
As for what I have been up to in absentia, aside from the Xerox converter, I have also been working on a custom 75% keyboard designed for use with Apple PBT keycaps. I had a preliminary plate fabbed with some help from ALH, there were a few issues with the layout but I (think) they were corrected and hope to have a working prototype in the near future. You will have to forgive me if I decide to call it the Wingman75 (and for the super yellowed spacebar). Here is a bit of a sneak peek:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/jgqXHCu.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/XVKE1WY.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/XVKE1WY.png)
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 27 February 2017, 14:03:52
3rd person to have Striped Amber! :cool:
They are some kind of early linear switches with cushioned feeling towards bottoming out, right?
75% is my preferred format factor: are you going to hand-wire this 75%?
Hope you can create an open-source PCB for this layout if you can, and the plate - well, this is not so simple, I understand, just look at the many revisions of Alps64 to debug / improve / streamline it.
Post by: yuppie on Mon, 27 February 2017, 14:07:45
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 February 2017, 14:12:47
@WingpadWell, fourth, Ohaimark had 'em before he sold 'em, haha. Yeah, that's a pretty apt description of 'em.
3rd person to have Striped Amber! :cool:
They are some kind of early linear switches with cushioned feeling towards bottoming out, right?
75% is my preferred format factor: are you going to hand-wire this 75%?
Hope you can create an open-source PCB for this layout if you can, and the plate - well, this is not so simple, I understand, just look at the many revisions of Alps64 to debug / improve / streamline it.
I will likely handwire the prototype but I'll try to create a PCB for it at some point or another. It's non-trivial but I'm up for the challenge.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 27 February 2017, 14:13:11
Just got my AEKii and I'm loving it. Wish I could find some caps though...what do you mean? AEK caps are top of the line alps caps.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 27 February 2017, 14:45:10
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 27 February 2017, 14:46:33
no **** of courseJust got my AEKii and I'm loving it. Wish I could find some caps though...what do you mean? AEK caps are top of the line alps caps.
there inlines the problem with alps
Post by: E3E on Mon, 27 February 2017, 15:56:46
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:31:06
AEK caps are boringThey're boring, yes, but available everywhere and conducive to weird layouts. They're not great but definitely not bad.
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:37:05
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:38:21
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:39:14
I have been away from this thread for a while... been juggling a number of things in real life (and a GB on deskthority) so I haven't had much time to check in here. That being said, I am making a return to brag:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Gh0KtqA.png)
^ Tandem 6526 with Striped Ambers
As for what I have been up to in absentia, aside from the Xerox converter, I have also been working on a custom 75% keyboard designed for use with Apple PBT keycaps. I had a preliminary plate fabbed with some help from ALH, there were a few issues with the layout but I (think) they were corrected and hope to have a working prototype in the near future. You will have to forgive me if I decide to call it the Wingman75 (and for the super yellowed spacebar). Here is a bit of a sneak peek:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/jgqXHCu.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XVKE1WY.png)
Awesome man! Is that one of the ones off ebay? What do you think of them? Plans?
Great to see progress on the Xerox converter too :cool:
AEK caps are boring
Japanese ones aren't ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/3ePrs.jpg)
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:47:15
If they have bumps on F and J instead then I think AEK caps are end game.
you can flatten off the bumps.. I don't rely on them, so I don't care, but I could see how it'd be annoying
I like uniform texture so unless I can sandblast the entire set I'm not going to mess with a key here or there. But that's another project far into the future because I have too many already atm.
I do agree japanese ones are sexy, still sad that I didn't pick up a set when Blaise was selling them
Post by: E3E on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:51:40
My favorite are probably the uniform Chinese PBT caps, Cherry profile FAME caps, and hi pros.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:53:02
Awesome man! Is that one of the ones off ebay? What do you think of them? Plans?Yes, this is one of the ones from the most recent eBay bunch. First impressions were positive, mine seem pretty clean and I think they live up to the hype. I have yet to do a side-by-side comparison but they seem a lot like SKCL Greens with the springs from sprit's most recent GB. Plans are to put them in a Mira/LZ-CLS/Whatever I can get my hands on. I would like a TKL and I'll try to scrounge around to find one.
Well, in terms of aesthetics, you are not wrong; however, as much as I love my Japanese AEKII keycaps... the profile is still rather bland.AEK caps are boringJapanese ones aren't ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3ePrs.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 27 February 2017, 16:56:39
If they have bumps on F and J instead then I think AEK caps are end game.
you can flatten off the bumps.. I don't rely on them, so I don't care, but I could see how it'd be annoying
I like uniform texture so unless I can sandblast the entire set I'm not going to mess with a key here or there. But that's another project far into the future because I have too many already atm.
I do agree japanese ones are sexy, still sad that I didn't pick up a set when Blaise was selling them
I just swap the F/J keys with the ones on D/K. If there were other spacebar options, I would consider dying a set black for a neat stealth look.
Post by: Tuntematon on Mon, 27 February 2017, 17:07:56
Haha, I'm just being a snob. AEK caps are high quality for sure, but they're just so commonly seen that I don't find then as interesting as other sets. Yeah, I've seen Russian Cyrillic, Hebrew, Chinese, and Japanese variants, which are pretty nifty, sure.
My favorite are probably the uniform Chinese PBT caps, Cherry profile FAME caps, and hi pros.
Their commonness is part of what makes them great. It is possible to acquire multiple sets and piece together a complete set for a custom layout. You are still somewhat limited with the legends, but you can always black them out with a dye job. Also, the profile is great. I'm a fan. The sideways stems on the F keys are a real bummer though.
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 27 February 2017, 17:11:46
If they have bumps on F and J instead then I think AEK caps are end game.
you can flatten off the bumps.. I don't rely on them, so I don't care, but I could see how it'd be annoying
I like uniform texture so unless I can sandblast the entire set I'm not going to mess with a key here or there. But that's another project far into the future because I have too many already atm.
I do agree japanese ones are sexy, still sad that I didn't pick up a set when Blaise was selling them
I just swap the F/J keys with the ones on D/K. If there were other spacebar options, I would consider dying a set black for a neat stealth look.
Thinking of sanding one down to see how deep is the dyed sub, if shallow enough I could go for the blank set. I much refer blanks but I suspect it's not as easy as it sounds. Maintaining consistent height is difficult.
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 27 February 2017, 17:34:37
Haha, I'm just being a snob. AEK caps are high quality for sure, but they're just so commonly seen that I don't find then as interesting as other sets. Yeah, I've seen Russian Cyrillic, Hebrew, Chinese, and Japanese variants, which are pretty nifty, sure.
My favorite are probably the uniform Chinese PBT caps, Cherry profile FAME caps, and hi pros.
Their commonness is part of what makes them great. It is possible to acquire multiple sets and piece together a complete set for a custom layout. You are still somewhat limited with the legends, but you can always black them out with a dye job. Also, the profile is great. I'm a fan. The sideways stems on the F keys are a real bummer though.
+1
Just like we normally won't see potatoes as treasures, but without its introduction to Europe, much of the Europeans would have died out and cultures vanished, and many revolutions including the industrial revolution would not have taken place.
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 27 February 2017, 17:39:38
Haha, I'm just being a snob. AEK caps are high quality for sure, but they're just so commonly seen that I don't find then as interesting as other sets. Yeah, I've seen Russian Cyrillic, Hebrew, Chinese, and Japanese variants, which are pretty nifty, sure.
...
Would love to see a media thread dedicated to the rare AEK boards mentioned above.
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 27 February 2017, 18:26:21
Awesome man! Is that one of the ones off ebay? What do you think of them? Plans?...
First impressions were positive, mine seem pretty clean and I think they live up to the hype. I have yet to do a side-by-side comparison but they seem a lot like SKCL Greens with the springs from sprit's most recent GB.
...
Sprit's springs of how much cN weight are you talking about? :p
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 27 February 2017, 18:52:59
Awesome man! Is that one of the ones off ebay? What do you think of them? Plans?Yes, this is one of the ones from the most recent eBay bunch. First impressions were positive, mine seem pretty clean and I think they live up to the hype. I have yet to do a side-by-side comparison but they seem a lot like SKCL Greens with the springs from sprit's most recent GB. Plans are to put them in a Mira/LZ-CLS/Whatever I can get my hands on. I would like a TKL and I'll try to scrounge around to find one.Well, in terms of aesthetics, you are not wrong; however, as much as I love my Japanese AEKII keycaps... the profile is still rather bland.AEK caps are boringJapanese ones aren't ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3ePrs.jpg)
At least it makes it less bland looking :p
So out of the 4 or so Tandems, 2 have been confirmed Brown and 1 so far Amber.
Haha, I'm just being a snob. AEK caps are high quality for sure, but they're just so commonly seen that I don't find then as interesting as other sets. Yeah, I've seen Russian Cyrillic, Hebrew, Chinese, and Japanese variants, which are pretty nifty, sure.
...
Would love to see a media thread dedicated to the rare AEK boards mentioned above.
Indeed. I did some googling and found two confirmed variants. Russian Cyrillic and Chinese. Interesting how they changed the position of the main legends of the Russian ones and the colorfulness of the Chinese ones. As well as giving Russians ISO while giving the entire Asian market (including Japan) ANSI lol :)) I do like the colorfulness of the Chinese ones but the symbols of the Japanese variants are nicer.
Russian:
(http://i.imgur.com/nBn4Iew.jpg)
Chinese:
(http://i.imgur.com/Zt21NKc.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 27 February 2017, 22:53:51
Thinking of sanding one down to see how deep is the dyed sub, if shallow enough I could go for the blank set. I much refer blanks but I suspect it's not as easy as it sounds. Maintaining consistent height is difficult.
I'd imagine the dyesubbing is around the same depth between cap sets. I sanded arrow keys from my IBM P70 set to make blanks as makeshift winkeys for an AT101 set. You definitely could sand the legends off, but it'd probably look cleaner and be more efficient and practical to use a sandblaster for that.
Would love to see a media thread dedicated to the rare AEK boards mentioned above.
I think I've mixed up hebrew for a cyrillic model now that I think about it. It was a secret santa gift to seebart on Deskthority one year. Pretty sure it was Russian Cyrillic, since I can't find anything on Hebrew.
Standard common AEK sets are great to have for PBT experiments and just messing around with. The profile isn't bad; I used to really like it when I was new to Alps, but it (and the legends) eventually fell out of favor with me. They are very well made though, of course.
Post by: smithyithy on Wed, 01 March 2017, 07:51:43
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 01 March 2017, 07:57:35
What profile are AEK caps? Would they be the same as, for example, Alpine Winter or BadWrench's modifiers?Apple has its own profile for the AEK. I don't think it intentionally matches any other profile, but you could try mixing other caps to see how they look along with AEK caps.
Post by: smithyithy on Wed, 01 March 2017, 08:06:30
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 01 March 2017, 10:43:03
What profile are AEK caps? Would they be the same as, for example, Alpine Winter or BadWrench's modifiers?Not quite (http://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg), BadWrench's set was run in DCS profile.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 01 March 2017, 11:22:59
What profile are AEK caps? Would they be the same as, for example, Alpine Winter or BadWrench's modifiers?
One of my first Alps projects mixed these profiles:
(http://i.imgur.com/uDUpeAx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vRxg7jt.jpg)
AEK profile is very different from any other profile out there, so you won't be finding any matches. Maybe try designing resin cast or 3D printed mods or something.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 01 March 2017, 11:23:33
It would be nice if someone could add the profile for Matias keycaps to this very helpful guide.What profile are AEK caps? Would they be the same as, for example, Alpine Winter or BadWrench's modifiers?Not quite (http://i.imgur.com/kFxqOm8.jpg), BadWrench's set was run in DCS profile.
Post by: smithyithy on Wed, 01 March 2017, 11:52:31
E3E that doesn't look too bad to be honest, think I could live with that.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 01 March 2017, 11:59:30
Thanks chaps.
E3E that doesn't look too bad to be honest, think I could live with that.
:) I'm actually not very picky with profile mixing either when it comes to Alps. There's not many options, and it usually doesn't look THAT off.
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 05 March 2017, 16:36:44
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 05 March 2017, 18:21:48
What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 05 March 2017, 18:57:23
What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.
There's certainly a difference in feel, no possibility about it. The slits give a bit more "spring" to the feel, I think. If you've ever compared pine and bamboo SKCM Blacks, Whites, or SKCM Greens to each other, it's definitely something you can feel.
The lack of slits (bamboo) just lends itself to a cheaper feel. Little more rounded, less resolution.
Post by: zombimuncha on Mon, 06 March 2017, 01:35:44
What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.
There's certainly a difference in feel, no possibility about it. The slits give a bit more "spring" to the feel, I think. If you've ever compared pine and bamboo SKCM Blacks, Whites, or SKCM Greens to each other, it's definitely something you can feel.
The lack of slits (bamboo) just lends itself to a cheaper feel. Little more rounded, less resolution.
So if you were to put a pine top housing on a bamboo switch, would it feel more like pine or bamboo?
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 06 March 2017, 06:03:34
There might be differences in other components of the switch as well, but in my experience, putting a pine top housing on a bamboo switch makes the switch sound and feel more like a pine switch.What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.
There's certainly a difference in feel, no possibility about it. The slits give a bit more "spring" to the feel, I think. If you've ever compared pine and bamboo SKCM Blacks, Whites, or SKCM Greens to each other, it's definitely something you can feel.
The lack of slits (bamboo) just lends itself to a cheaper feel. Little more rounded, less resolution.
So if you were to put a pine top housing on a bamboo switch, would it feel more like pine or bamboo?
I first noticed the pine/bamboo effect on a Northgate Omnikey 101 -- I bought one of these that was in near-pristine condition, but to my surprise (and disappointment), the switches did not sound or feel as good as the switches on my other Omni 101. It turned out that the newer board had bamboo (no slits) switches. I put pine tops on the bamboo switches and now the board sounds and feels like a pine-switch model.
Post by: zslane on Mon, 06 March 2017, 13:21:06
https://thevankeyboards.com/products/lightcycle-keycap-set
[attachimg=1]
Post by: E3E on Mon, 06 March 2017, 17:12:24
What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.
There's certainly a difference in feel, no possibility about it. The slits give a bit more "spring" to the feel, I think. If you've ever compared pine and bamboo SKCM Blacks, Whites, or SKCM Greens to each other, it's definitely something you can feel.
The lack of slits (bamboo) just lends itself to a cheaper feel. Little more rounded, less resolution.
So if you were to put a pine top housing on a bamboo switch, would it feel more like pine or bamboo?
It would almost entirely feel like a genuine pine switch. I did this test on Alps SKCM Green and found this to be the case. Like Hypersphere posits, there is a difference in other parts. Notably the springs are shorter and more finely coiled, the nubs that the slider bottoms out on are more pronounced. Those are the main differences. The feel seems similar enough though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 06 March 2017, 19:54:45
Enjoy the cleanliness:
(http://i.imgur.com/zitrnfo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SfrJlk9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8yuqBfy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ts8mYyu.jpg)
You can see the coating texture so clearly!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/wvgRspJ.jpg)
Switches. The shine of the top/bottom housings plastics and the slider (especially the rubber bumper) really tell a story of NO USE!
(http://i.imgur.com/DnABWi9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/y9SfnfL.jpg)
Post by: subcat on Mon, 06 March 2017, 21:02:34
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 06 March 2017, 22:31:51
Hey guys... I like alps SKCM creams... can you tell? :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 07 March 2017, 00:02:18
Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170307/accc6113ce1ccca836a6390f201efcb0.jpg)
Hey guys... I like alps SKCM creams... can you tell? :)
Great switches indeed. Too bad their so rare. The NeXT ebay guy is really our only main source for them. Seems he got a hold of a warehouse of old stock or something. NeXT computers were only sold for a few years and less with the non-adb variant. The next best source is those big AP Canon typewriters. I think people would pick them up a lot more but A not a whole lot of people know about them and B you can really only get them locally, ebay shipping is ridiculous (but expected) and rarely does a seller do free ship.
It's kinda like SKCL Striped Amber as well. Some of the best switches Alps made no one got. When the NeXT's dry up we will have a Cream crisis on our hands :rolleyes:
Also about the NeXT thing the vintage computer community hates us, destroying/modifying old hardware! I think some guy called us vultures lol. I try to preserve old hardware when I can and definitely respect it when I do have to take it apart, like the Tandem terminals for example. Or most of the time I repurpose them with new switches etc. The 5140 feast is another one they really hate.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 07 March 2017, 01:08:09
Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170307/accc6113ce1ccca836a6390f201efcb0.jpg)
Hey guys... I like alps SKCM creams... can you tell? :)
Great switches indeed. Too bad their so rare. The NeXT ebay guy is really our only main source for them. Seems he got a hold of a warehouse of old stock or something. NeXT computers were only sold for a few years and less with the non-adb variant. The next best source is those big AP Canon typewriters. I think people would pick them up a lot more but A not a whole lot of people know about them and B you can really only get them locally, ebay shipping is ridiculous (but expected) and rarely does a seller do free ship.
It's kinda like SKCL Striped Amber as well. Some of the best switches Alps made no one got. When the NeXT's dry up we will have a Cream crisis on our hands :rolleyes:
Also about the NeXT thing the vintage computer community hates us, destroying/modifying old hardware! I think some guy called us vultures lol. I try to preserve old hardware when I can and definitely respect it when I do have to take it apart, like the Tandem terminals for example. Or most of the time I repurpose them with new switches etc. The 5140 feast is another one they really hate.
Of the five keyboards the NeXT eBay guys sold me, three were missing caps, had cracked cases or non-functional. He was surprised I even wanted them. I kept a working one then the other four were harvested and sent off to Mike and E3E. So that only counts as me killing one of them :(
Its a shame that in order to obtain SKCM Ambers and SKCM Browns people basically trash the whole computer. At least on the IIcs, the caps are worth anything to most people, so you could presumably solder some black alps in and resell it intact. The good thing about harvesting switches from 5140s and IICs like my two, is that the broken ones go for much cheaper!
Still haven't touched the 5140 but I would like to do something along the lines of what I saw on DT (https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/ibm-5140-convertible-conversion-t9666.html). Not really harvesting, just temporarily repurposing.
My only KB guilt I carry is the Zenith ZKB-2R sitting in the closet without any switches because its missing a keycap. All the switches were seeming glued to the pcb by whatever gunk was leftover.
(http://i.imgur.com/pM2g2t5.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 07 March 2017, 01:36:34
I'd do it with my other 5140 as well, but I took the whole assembly out and had it converted, so all the pieces are there. It's so beat up anyway, that not many people would consider worthy of preserving anyway.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 07 March 2017, 06:26:42
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 07 March 2017, 12:57:39
Well, that's why I put other switches into my IIc and 5140 - white into IIc and white damped into 5140, to preserve the original spirit as much as possible.I just noticed you did that was you in that thread too! Since the 5140's screen folds down when not in use, they all seem to be very clean. My caps were dirty but the plate was spotless. Another interesting tidbit, I just took the caps off to run through the ultrasonic cleaner and all the stabs seem to be prelubed.
I'd do it with my other 5140 as well, but I took the whole assembly out and had it converted, so all the pieces are there. It's so beat up anyway, that not many people would consider worthy of preserving anyway.
The case on that Zenith looks warped Oo .
I don't think it is, or maybe I never noticed. Congrats on the successful success of your GoFundMe and more importantly, your PhD! Have you ever reviewed brown alps?
Post by: chyros on Tue, 07 March 2017, 13:01:21
Thank you, and no, I haven't! I really want to do a brown and a cream Alps review, but I want to get one that's super clean as I know otherwise the review will be skewed, and it's not easy to get either. I've been eyeing the NeXT vendor who had that big batch of boards, but his lack of transparency made me not buy, as I wanted to look at the exact one he'd send me. Brown Alps are just rare in general, and not easy to find clean. I very much want to do both though, as I adore salmon and especially orange Alps, on which I type at just about my maximum speed.Well, that's why I put other switches into my IIc and 5140 - white into IIc and white damped into 5140, to preserve the original spirit as much as possible.I just noticed you did that was you in that thread too! Since the 5140's screen folds down when not in use, they all seem to be very clean. My caps were dirty but the plate was spotless. Another interesting tidbit, I just took the caps off to run through the ultrasonic cleaner and all the stabs seem to be prelubed.
I'd do it with my other 5140 as well, but I took the whole assembly out and had it converted, so all the pieces are there. It's so beat up anyway, that not many people would consider worthy of preserving anyway.The case on that Zenith looks warped Oo .
I don't think it is, or maybe I never noticed. Congrats on the successful success of your GoFundMe and more importantly, your PhD! Have you ever reviewed brown alps?
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 07 March 2017, 13:44:40
Thank you, and no, I haven't! I really want to do a brown and a cream Alps review, but I want to get one that's super clean as I know otherwise the review will be skewed, and it's not easy to get either. I've been eyeing the NeXT vendor who had that big batch of boards, but his lack of transparency made me not buy, as I wanted to look at the exact one he'd send me. Brown Alps are just rare in general, and not easy to find clean. I very much want to do both though, as I adore salmon and especially orange Alps, on which I type at just about my maximum speed.The case on that Zenith looks warped Oo .
I don't think it is, or maybe I never noticed. Congrats on the successful success of your GoFundMe and more importantly, your PhD! Have you ever reviewed brown alps?
We need to find you a good clean 5140 with an ISO enter :D
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/COAAAOSwux5YMfGz/s-l1600.jpg)
EDIT: Does anyone have a set of Apple IIGS keycaps (https://deskthority.net/w/images/7/7d/Apple_M0330_top.jpg) or at least the numpad portion?
Post by: E3E on Tue, 07 March 2017, 14:43:17
Show Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/COAAAOSwux5YMfGz/s-l1600.jpg)
EDIT: Does anyone have a set of Apple IIGS keycaps (https://deskthority.net/w/images/7/7d/Apple_M0330_top.jpg) or at least the numpad portion?
I'd take one, if you don't mind. :P
Those are the best 5140s.
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 07 March 2017, 14:56:26
We need to find you a good clean 5140 with an ISO enter :DShow Image(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/COAAAOSwux5YMfGz/s-l1600.jpg)
That's a strange looking PSU.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 07 March 2017, 18:06:14
Post by: cutterline on Tue, 07 March 2017, 19:27:08
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 07 March 2017, 20:57:13
Post by: cutterline on Wed, 08 March 2017, 00:04:35
I think the dampening sort of killed it. It was quiet like a MX blue and not as ultra-tactile as you'd expect from ALPS.Have you tried all of them or just the clicky one (as you mentioned mx blue)?
Maybe the dampening can be removed (cut) fully/partially to aim the alps goodness?
Also I watched, they modded the clicky leaf part (responsible for alps tactility) for LED, maybe that part can be exchanged with alps (or its clone) as well?
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 08 March 2017, 23:14:11
(http://i.imgur.com/LsMTs4H.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 08 March 2017, 23:19:44
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 08 March 2017, 23:26:04
I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidenceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/LsMTs4H.jpg)
Fake alps cherry clone? Those are actually nice
yuup been looking for this keyboard for a while now. TBH I really just want it for the caps, but I'll be super bummed if the keyboard comes in all mangled
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 09 March 2017, 00:10:20
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 00:11:13
(http://i.imgur.com/coMeGfr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e1TqRph.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gaWsT59.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8IhnrgD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KqAd7qy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VzX15qX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bDkgcm4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JSByGm4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/88ZclRW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ronis8J.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ge6De4c.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/sGTMkXf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uJt5ncL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZaZFMFa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JRlPY7h.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ItN1O5f.jpg)
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 09 March 2017, 00:12:39
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 00:16:08
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 00:26:21
Striped Ambers and Ambers are the only alps switches I still really want to try.
I would both highly recommend both. I would go for SKCM Amber's first since there much easier to find. I've found that they best belong in a modern board.
Striped Amber's are fantastic too if you can find them. I wonder if you could replicate them with SKCL Green and SPRiT springs :rolleyes:
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 09 March 2017, 00:49:30
I haven't tried oranges yet but I have tried salmons and thought they were too light.I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens
For sure, I also owned both. I would like to get some orange alps to compare as well, but I'm in no rush.
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 09 March 2017, 01:14:46
I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens
For sure, I also owned both. I would like to get some orange alps to compare as well, but I'm in no rush.
Something between Orange and Green would be perfect for me. The Browns feel awful to me. I really can't stand them.
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 01:18:01
I regret selling my only tactile SKCM brown board several years ago. Those switches are perfect. Maybe it's that dummy switchplate they use instead of a tactile leaf; maybe it's the plastic in the stems or the dry lube they're painted with, or maybe it's all those factors working in concert... I don't know why SKCM tactile browns are so inimitable, but I've used hundreds of ALPS keyboards over the years and nothing comes close to browns. Orange is in the same ballpark, and there are a few varieties I've never tried (like SKCM greens and fresh, unused ambers), but IMHO browns are in a league of their own. I'd really love to find some NOS browns for my first custom build
Post by: chyros on Thu, 09 March 2017, 04:50:33
I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidenceIt's actually pretty damn nice ;) .Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LsMTs4H.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 06:13:54
I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM GreensI agree... Also, SKCM cream > SKCM brown
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 06:16:07
SKCM Undampened cream from NeXT non adb boards falls into that window. It is a fantastic switch.I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens
For sure, I also owned both. I would like to get some orange alps to compare as well, but I'm in no rush.
Something between Orange and Green would be perfect for me. The Browns feel awful to me. I really can't stand them.
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 06:17:20
I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidenceholy **** does that board have the cherry profile doubleshot alps caps? if so Im jealous...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LsMTs4H.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Thu, 09 March 2017, 06:35:05
Yes, should do.I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidenceholy **** does that board have the cherry profile doubleshot alps caps? if so Im jealous...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/LsMTs4H.jpg)
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 09:41:08
I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidenceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/LsMTs4H.jpg)
That looks familiar :)
(Don't worry, it's all good inside.)
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 09 March 2017, 11:09:19
can an alps professional help me know exactly which switch this is? cant tell if cream or white
(http://i.imgur.com/ekgWiHH.jpg)
GREETZ
Post by: chyros on Thu, 09 March 2017, 11:10:34
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 09 March 2017, 11:10:51
Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.
yes it is, much obliged my man
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 09 March 2017, 11:52:26
Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 09 March 2017, 12:59:33
In that case you never could've gotten orange Alps because they never came with them AFAIK. The very earliest ones had salmon, but the majority used cream or white damp.Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.
yes it is, much obliged my man
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 13:14:50
Post by: happylacquer on Thu, 09 March 2017, 13:18:03
In that case you never could've gotten orange Alps because they never came with them AFAIK. The very earliest ones had salmon, but the majority used cream or white damp.Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.
yes it is, much obliged my man
TIL salmon and orange aren't the same :-[
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 13:27:44
Salmon is a second gen switch, with short switchplates, while orange is a first gen switch with tall switchplates. If you wanted an AEKII with salmons, you need to find one with a 1989 copyright date on the label. Oranges can only come in M0115s, M0116/8s, some apple IIGS keyboards, and some wang 725-3770/3771 boards.In that case you never could've gotten orange Alps because they never came with them AFAIK. The very earliest ones had salmon, but the majority used cream or white damp.Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.
yes it is, much obliged my man
TIL salmon and orange aren't the same :-[
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 09 March 2017, 13:41:02
Post by: E3E on Thu, 09 March 2017, 17:00:00
I really don't know how E3E managed to hand drill LED holes in enough switches for a G80-3000 in addition to the other two Duck boards. Just did enough for a numpad and I wanted to rip my toenails out.
Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.
It is a pain, definitely a pain. Given the RSI issues I was facing, doing that drilling for the NCR build--the combination of hand drilling + insertion of the LEDs into the board had my hand aching and made my vision all fuzzy for a good couple of minutes because of how I had to squint my eyes to focus on the holes so I could properly insert the LEDs.
I also shaved the LEDs' flanges off to make insertion easier, since it looks like LEDs are meant to slot into the switches as opposed to just be inserted. A dremel and a tool vise made quick(er) work of that issue.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 09 March 2017, 17:43:48
I really don't know how E3E managed to hand drill LED holes in enough switches for a G80-3000 in addition to the other two Duck boards. Just did enough for a numpad and I wanted to rip my toenails out.
Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.
It is a pain, definitely a pain. Given the RSI issues I was facing, doing that drilling for the NCR build--the combination of hand drilling + insertion of the LEDs into the board had my hand aching and made my vision all fuzzy for a good couple of minutes because of how I had to squint my eyes to focus on the holes so I could properly insert the LEDs.
I also shaved the LEDs' flanges off to make insertion easier, since it looks like LEDs are meant to slot into the switches as opposed to just be inserted. A dremel and a tool vise made quick(er) work of that issue.
I can definitively see that being an issue. Also, I'm having a hard time finding the actuation force of SKCL browns, would you happen to know it? Realized SPRiT's measurements for alps springs are based off actuation force, not bottom out.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 09 March 2017, 17:45:50
I really don't know how E3E managed to hand drill LED holes in enough switches for a G80-3000 in addition to the other two Duck boards. Just did enough for a numpad and I wanted to rip my toenails out.
Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.
It is a pain, definitely a pain. Given the RSI issues I was facing, doing that drilling for the NCR build--the combination of hand drilling + insertion of the LEDs into the board had my hand aching and made my vision all fuzzy for a good couple of minutes because of how I had to squint my eyes to focus on the holes so I could properly insert the LEDs.
I also shaved the LEDs' flanges off to make insertion easier, since it looks like LEDs are meant to slot into the switches as opposed to just be inserted. A dremel and a tool vise made quick(er) work of that issue.
I can definitively see that being an issue. Also, I'm having a hard time finding the actuation force of SKCL browns, would you happen to know it? Realized SPRiT's measurements for alps springs are based off actuation force, not bottom out.
I'm pretty sure it was 60 cf, but it might be 65 cf.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 10 March 2017, 10:14:39
Good news...
I'm in China now, and have signed off on the Black PBT caps. We are arranging the production schedule now.
We'll start with raw blanks in Black, and then do Black with White legends.
I'm waiting on White PBT samples next, but those shouldn't take long.
Anymore feedback anyone wants to provide, now is the time... :-)
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:26:54
Orange is even lighter than Salmon, actually.SKCM brown Alps do indeed have a unique feel, with perhaps the most pronounced tactility of any Alps switch. Their parts fit together with close tolerances, like a fine piece of machinery. I believe these characteristics come mainly from the tactile assembly, which is a modified switchplate, but also from he symmetrical top housing and slider.
I regret selling my only tactile SKCM brown board several years ago. Those switches are perfect. Maybe it's that dummy switchplate they use instead of a tactile leaf; maybe it's the plastic in the stems or the dry lube they're painted with, or maybe it's all those factors working in concert... I don't know why SKCM tactile browns are so inimitable, but I've used hundreds of ALPS keyboards over the years and nothing comes close to browns. Orange is in the same ballpark, and there are a few varieties I've never tried (like SKCM greens and fresh, unused ambers), but IMHO browns are in a league of their own. I'd really love to find some NOS browns for my first custom build
The figure I have for the actuation force of SKCM browns is 75 g. This heavy actuation force is mostly attributable to the tactile assembly rather than the return spring.
Post by: menuhin on Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:41:07
What profile are AEK caps? Would they be the same as, for example, Alpine Winter or BadWrench's modifiers?
One of my first Alps projects mixed these profiles:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uDUpeAx.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vRxg7jt.jpg)
AEK profile is very different from any other profile out there, so you won't be finding any matches. Maybe try designing resin cast or 3D printed mods or something.
Just noticed: is that an infinity build?
What is this 6u space bar? And what stabilizers solution did you use?
I think it's simpler to build with an Alps64 or even with Duck Eagle PCB, and these two support more layout options.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 10 March 2017, 17:50:44
What profile are AEK caps? Would they be the same as, for example, Alpine Winter or BadWrench's modifiers?
One of my first Alps projects mixed these profiles:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/uDUpeAx.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vRxg7jt.jpg)
AEK profile is very different from any other profile out there, so you won't be finding any matches. Maybe try designing resin cast or 3D printed mods or something.
Just noticed: is that an infinity build?
What is this 6u space bar? And what stabilizers solution did you use?
I think it's simpler to build with an Alps64 or even with Duck Eagle PCB, and these two support more layout options.
Yep, it is an infinity! The space bar was a modified 6u DCS space bar. ABS. I stem-swapped it. All stabs are costar. You can now buy Alps space bars in grey and blue from PMK because of Alpine Winter though.
The Alps64 is, by far, the easiest to build for because it has more supported layouts than any other PCB out there. It lacks backlighting and PCB Cherry stabs (which really isn't -meant- for Alps, but can work on some caps).
The Eagle actually does not have many supported layouts. It only has the AT101 layout + a 15u top row if desired. I had to manually drill the PCB to create the layouts for the short right shift, all Caps Lock positions, and the 6.25u bottom row.
My Infinity was pretty much a match made in heaven for Alpine Winter, and influenced the design. Badwrench and myself were the ones who came up with the colorway.
(https://i.imgur.com/aYdRanc.jpg)
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 13 March 2017, 23:51:11
Should get it back together and working by this weekend, getting my ADB converter on Friday :)
Pics:
(http://i.imgur.com/xZcnAjV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/D4PLYan.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZV1CSeQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/r2uNpPB.jpg)
Idk why but the last picture makes the case looked warped in the center, it isn't :p
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 14 March 2017, 12:08:21
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 12:33:59
Switches from Mike arrived today, I individually cleaned and mounted them into the AEKII. Still need to solder.Glad to see them in their new home instead of just sitting in a bag at my house! I bought and desoldered another NeXT to make up for lost switches... haha
Should get it back together and working by this weekend, getting my ADB converter on Friday :)
Pics:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/xZcnAjV.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/D4PLYan.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ZV1CSeQ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/r2uNpPB.jpg)
Idk why but the last picture makes the case looked warped in the center, it isn't :p
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 14 March 2017, 13:29:42
...
Yep, it is an infinity! The space bar was a modified 6u DCS space bar. ABS. I stem-swapped it. All stabs are costar. You can now buy Alps space bars in grey and blue from PMK because of Alpine Winter though.
The Alps64 is, by far, the easiest to build for because it has more supported layouts than any other PCB out there. It lacks backlighting and PCB Cherry stabs (which really isn't -meant- for Alps, but can work on some caps).
The Eagle actually does not have many supported layouts. It only has the AT101 layout + a 15u top row if desired. I had to manually drill the PCB to create the layouts for the short right shift, all Caps Lock positions, and the 6.25u bottom row.
My Infinity was pretty much a match made in heaven for Alpine Winter, and influenced the design. Badwrench and myself were the ones who came up with the colorway.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/aYdRanc.jpg)
Thanks for the tip. Can't beat the matching blue colors there - caps, PCB, and case.
Planning to convert my infinity into an Alps HHKB. Now keeping an eye on the PMK 6u Alps spacebar - will get when they're in stock again.
Probably also need a custom plate from Lasergist.
- Will see if the "lazy build" works, i.e. without soldering.
Post by: laughatpain on Tue, 14 March 2017, 13:34:59
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 14 March 2017, 15:23:35
(http://i.imgur.com/p4uqtqb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/17Dpfd5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P44BpDM.jpg)
I have already run the switches through the ultrasonic cleaner and replaced the tops with ones from my click modded Z-150. Also shaved off the flanges and hand-drilled holes for 2x5x7 leds. Just waiting on the gold LED Holtites from Sager and Apple IIgs numpad keycaps from eBay.
Can't imagine doing this for a full-sized keyboard though.
Hopefully I don't mess this up!
Post by: OfTheWild on Tue, 14 March 2017, 15:48:50
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:08:01
Was just brainstorming an idea and was wondering how viable pcb mounted alps are? Saw a tread on deskthority regarding the amount of torque on the switches due to the lack of mounting holes would be a problem, but has this ever been done?
There were some obscure clones out there with PCB mount legs ala Cherry. The only way I can see the switch being stable enough is by using LEDs. Soldering them in would give the switch more stability, but it would also limit you to SKCLs.
Other than that, glue them down. :P Tight cap pulling would be scary without enough support.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:09:31
Alrighty everyone, wish me luck and please excuse my messy, 30 year-old work bench.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/p4uqtqb.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/17Dpfd5.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/P44BpDM.jpg)
I have already run the switches through the ultrasonic cleaner and replaced the tops with ones from my click modded Z-150. Also shaved off the flanges and hand-drilled holes for 2x5x7 leds. Just waiting on the gold LED Holtites from Sager and Apple IIgs numpad keycaps from eBay.
Can't imagine doing this for a full-sized keyboard though.
Hopefully I don't mess this up!
Ayyy, someone else is giving it a shot! Good luck. I hope you have conductive ink to repair any damaged traces. Beware of bridging any contact with the ground plane, as that is a thing that can happen and will cause you many headaches after thinking you're all done and then realizing that every key press triggers a whole row or column.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 21:35:27
Soldered, installed keycaps, and put it back together. It's pretty awesome now :cool: Next time its open i'll be retrobrighting it. Just waiting on converter to be able to use it. Welcome to America my little AEK!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/GOQuUnH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IgNhgVE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/wvXfI8K.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/283dWIV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JjQHuvv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IgNhgVE.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 15 March 2017, 14:33:19
Also, update on the numpad:
After drilling with the Dremel, none of keys still register so I had to make a run to RadioShack (yay 70% off) for a conductive pen.
I think on this particular PCB, it would have been a much better choice to hand-drill the holes from both sides. Hopefully I can get everything retraced and don't have to get a new PCB :o
Post by: chyros on Wed, 15 March 2017, 17:20:54
The AEK chassis is a bit underrated.Is it? xD I thought it was pretty well-respected xD .
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 17:22:57
Post by: E3E on Wed, 15 March 2017, 17:27:43
The AEK chassis is a bit underrated. It's solidly built and the second version has that funky angle adjustment in the rear. Always a fan of creams and the Japanese sublegends.
Also, update on the numpad:
After drilling with the Dremel, none of keys still register so I had to make a run to RadioShack (yay 70% off) for a conductive pen.
I think on this particular PCB, it would have been a much better choice to hand-drill the holes from both sides. Hopefully I can get everything retraced and don't have to get a new PCB :o
You're in the heart of the storm now! The struggle is real! Good luck, sir!
You will prevail. :D
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 15 March 2017, 17:30:09
The AEK chassis is a bit underrated.Is it? xD I thought it was pretty well-respected xD .
SGI tho
Then what can we do to all those nice plate-less harvested AEK cases with PCBs, they're better than helping homeless people to keep warm in the winter.
Perhaps we can donate all of them to installation artists.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 15 March 2017, 19:33:05
Heh, I don't even have an SGI xD .The AEK chassis is a bit underrated.Is it? xD I thought it was pretty well-respected xD .
SGI tho
Post by: E3E on Wed, 15 March 2017, 19:40:10
Heh, I don't even have an SGI xD .The AEK chassis is a bit underrated.Is it? xD I thought it was pretty well-respected xD .
SGI tho
They're probably much more common over here in the states. The SGI 102s I've seen also just reuse Dell AT102 caps, font and all, and don't carry over either the granite colorway or the italic font.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 15 March 2017, 20:09:40
Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare.Heh, I don't even have an SGI xD .The AEK chassis is a bit underrated.Is it? xD I thought it was pretty well-respected xD .
SGI tho
They're probably much more common over here in the states. The SGI 102s I've seen also just reuse Dell AT102 caps, font and all, and don't carry over either the granite colorway or the italic font.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 20:24:00
I just threw 3 away hahaThe AEK chassis is a bit underrated.Is it? xD I thought it was pretty well-respected xD .
SGI tho
Then what can we do to all those nice plate-less harvested AEK cases with PCBs, they're better than helping homeless people to keep warm in the winter.
Perhaps we can donate all of them to installation artists.
Post by: E3E on Wed, 15 March 2017, 20:26:55
Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare.
That reskinned AT102. :P
Did you ever find any ANSI models at the recyclers? I'd think not, but I'm curious.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 21:15:48
Post by: chyros on Wed, 15 March 2017, 21:26:41
Yes, I found an Acer 6511 and an AEK in ANSI layout there. The 6511 was brand-new and had Alps-mount caps as well, so I have a brand-new replacement set for my KB-101A ^^ .Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare.
That reskinned AT102. :P
Did you ever find any ANSI models at the recyclers? I'd think not, but I'm curious.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 16 March 2017, 03:51:17
Yes, I found an Acer 6511 and an AEK in ANSI layout there. The 6511 was brand-new and had Alps-mount caps as well, so I have a brand-new replacement set for my KB-101A ^^ .Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare.
That reskinned AT102. :P
Did you ever find any ANSI models at the recyclers? I'd think not, but I'm curious.
I meant SGI granite, whoops. When I said "ANSI," I probably already had the logic in my mind but forgot that I didn't clarify it in the message. Probably wrote ANSI there without even thinking, whoops.
Always nice to have replacement key sets for when one wears out or if you want to just keep one for when you make it a "showroom" board for pictures or just to look pretty, haha.
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 16 March 2017, 04:26:15
Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare....
They're probably much more common over here in the states. The SGI 102s I've seen also just reuse Dell AT102 caps, font and all, and don't carry over either the granite colorway or the italic font.
I am giving away an ansi chassis, but I don't think the shipping would be worth it at all.ß
Please keep it until someone wants it, SGI Granite's case is one of the nicest looking non-custom case out there!
When Matias has new caps later this year, it's quite possible to rebuild it cheaply with Matias switches and caps.
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 16 March 2017, 04:27:52
Yes, I found an Acer 6511 and an AEK in ANSI layout there. The 6511 was brand-new and had Alps-mount caps as well, so I have a brand-new replacement set for my KB-101A ^^ .Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare.
That reskinned AT102. :P
Did you ever find any ANSI models at the recyclers? I'd think not, but I'm curious.
I meant SGI granite, whoops. When I said "ANSI," I probably already had the logic in my mind but forgot that I didn't clarify it in the message. Probably wrote ANSI there without even thinking, whoops.
Always nice to have replacement key sets for when one wears out or if you want to just keep one for when you make it a "showroom" board for pictures or just to look pretty, haha.
I have never seen an SGI Granite / Beige keyboard with ISO enter before, not even just on photos.
Do they exist?
Post by: E3E on Thu, 16 March 2017, 04:59:26
I've figured out that the set I idealized for it, the IBM Multistation hi pros, isn't as good of a fit for the Mira as I had thought. They're uncomfortable to type on, probably because of a combination of the angle on the Mira and the depth of the scooping with these caps. To put it in perspective, the normal scoops are as deep as the C.Itoh caps' homing key scoops.
Here's a few potatoes of all the past night's mucking about:
(http://i.imgur.com/iqMCFZo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QVIEhqX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/foNRC9p.jpg) The Canon caps are -not- the same profile, but they fit well enough. If I felt that they fit the Mira better, I might've done something to blend them in with the Multistation caps.
(http://i.imgur.com/QZoVAo3.jpg)
The last two are brother sets. :)
Ultimately, I think I'm gonna go back to the ICL One Per Desk caps on the Mira.
(http://i.imgur.com/RfV7XmP.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Thu, 16 March 2017, 05:00:03
I have never seen an SGI Granite / Beige keyboard with ISO enter before, not even just on photos.
Do they exist?
Yep, I've seen two of them so far, I think. One posted on DT, and one sold on reddit.
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 16 March 2017, 05:15:23
...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QZoVAo3.jpg)
The last two are brother sets. :)
Ultimately, I think I'm gonna go back to the ICL One Per Desk caps on the Mira.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RfV7XmP.jpg)
In my opinion, Beige and grey colors work on a red case like this only when they have red legends, or at most red + black, red + blue, or red + green legends.
Otherwise, the base color of caps should be sort of from the same color palette - like the pseudo SP SA retro set (I know they model after the ICL One per desk) here. Red, deep red, brown - from the same palette, and then to highlight with a contrasting color - lime green with matching white legend. Perfect - almost. I wish the mods can be in that deep red or some toffee color. That's the game of Alps anyways.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 16 March 2017, 05:32:57
...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QZoVAo3.jpg)
The last two are brother sets. :)
Ultimately, I think I'm gonna go back to the ICL One Per Desk caps on the Mira.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RfV7XmP.jpg)
In my opinion, Beige and grey colors work on a red case like this only when they have red legends, or at most red + black, red + blue, or red + green legends.
Otherwise, the base color of caps should be sort of from the same color palette - like the pseudo SP SA retro set (I know they model after the ICL One per desk) here. Red, deep red, brown - from the same palette, and then to highlight with a contrasting color - lime green with matching white legend. Perfect - almost. I wish the mods can be in that deep red or some toffee color. That's the game of Alps anyways.
True. I totally agree. I don't feel entirely satisfied with any of the keysets, but the ICL comes the closest.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 16 March 2017, 07:29:13
No, I don't own an SGI.Yes, I found an Acer 6511 and an AEK in ANSI layout there. The 6511 was brand-new and had Alps-mount caps as well, so I have a brand-new replacement set for my KB-101A ^^ .Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare.
That reskinned AT102. :P
Did you ever find any ANSI models at the recyclers? I'd think not, but I'm curious.
I meant SGI granite, whoops. When I said "ANSI," I probably already had the logic in my mind but forgot that I didn't clarify it in the message. Probably wrote ANSI there without even thinking, whoops.
Always nice to have replacement key sets for when one wears out or if you want to just keep one for when you make it a "showroom" board for pictures or just to look pretty, haha.
What also makes me reluctant to buy one is that I want an unyellowed one. So I might well have to wait for one xD .
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 March 2017, 17:55:42
Works just fine but did have a bad switch though, faulty switchplate. I managed to fix it using my trusted method that works some of the time. Took the metal leaf off the switchplate and used a toothpick to pull back the little contact arm then spray it a bunch with compressed air while also bending the arm a little bit. These switches were really clean so must be the tiniest bit of dust in there. Man Alps can be susceptible to even the smallest amount of dust lol.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 16 March 2017, 19:20:34
Typing to you on my Japanese AEKII! Got my converter today, it's great :p Getting used to this profile is a little weird (it's flatter) but shouldn't take long. SKCM Cream is great in this board too.
Works just fine but did have a bad switch though, faulty switchplate. I managed to fix it using my trusted method that works some of the time. Took the metal leaf off the switchplate and used a toothpick to pull back the little contact arm then spray it a bunch with compressed air while also bending the arm a little bit. These switches were really clean so must be the tiniest bit of dust in there. Man Alps can be susceptible to even the smallest amount of dust lol.
Yeah, it's a shame. For such a complicated mechanism, it has a lot of issues with dust, but then again, that's kind of what happens with complicated designs.
So you've never used an AEK before? I'm surprised. Yeah, the profile is pretty flat, but it's not bad. :)
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 March 2017, 19:44:13
Yeah, it's a shame. For such a complicated mechanism, it has a lot of issues with dust, but then again, that's kind of what happens with complicated designs.
So you've never used an AEK before? I'm surprised. Yeah, the profile is pretty flat, but it's not bad. :)
Yea, works perfect now. Had to do the same thing with the numpad 0 key on my Packard Bell. Random ass failures. Can accept the 20 or so dead switchplates that were on my Taobao Blues though, nothing is designed to withstand that kind of abuse lol. Those also all had a bit of corrosion on the metal parts.
I have, used to own an SKCM Cream Damp AEKII, but sold it over a year ago. It's been some time ;) Really liking the feeling though. I have been using my vintage MX Brown G80 for a couple of weeks so it is nice to get back to Alps! :-X
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 16 March 2017, 19:48:29
I just have to move the numpad / nav cluster to the left and make things programmable.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 16 March 2017, 19:57:16
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/QZoVAo3.jpg)
Really love those late PBT Multistation caps! They look so normal/standard as if they came that way from the factory :eek: Something we rarely see with Alps. Gotta thank those few ANSI AT101 caps.
The more I type on this AEKII the more I like it :))
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 18 March 2017, 13:49:59
(https://i.imgur.com/RJXicia.jpg)
The aftermath. As you can see, I had to hand-drill the pcb to relocate the LED holtite sockets.
(https://i.imgur.com/ziWc8HK.jpg)
Unfortunately, about halfway through installing sockets for the LEDs, they became very dim. I don't know how to fix this :(
(https://i.imgur.com/Tg5rd5z.jpg)
Mocked up with some Apple IIC caps until the proper ones from a IIgs numpad come in.
Running into issues with the ribs on the keycaps hitting the LEDs. Also an issue Alpine winter. I may just cut the ribbing on the IIgs keycaps.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 18 March 2017, 17:14:10
Post by: loud_asian on Sat, 18 March 2017, 19:18:23
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 18 March 2017, 19:24:13
Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 18 March 2017, 20:34:04
it looks cool.. but will you use it?
Probably not as a numpad, but more a macropad for AutoCad and Excel in conjunction with my laptop.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 18 March 2017, 21:03:16
it looks cool.. but will you use it?
Probably not as a numpad, but more a macropad for AutoCad and Excel in conjunction with my laptop.
With your laptop? So cool!
You should try to install a bluetooth module inside to get rid of the cable to have the ultimate cool cute macropad that makes colleagues / other people in the coffee shop / family members and friends jealous.
It's a pity makers of Alps compatible PCBs do not make the switch pin holes big enough to allow us to just install the receptacles with some more persuasion with blunt solder iron tip.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 18 March 2017, 23:45:36
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 18 March 2017, 23:54:02
it looks cool.. but will you use it?
Probably not as a numpad, but more a macropad for AutoCad and Excel in conjunction with my laptop.
With your laptop? So cool!
You should try to install a bluetooth module inside to get rid of the cable to have the ultimate cool cute macropad that makes colleagues / other people in the coffee shop / family members and friends jealous.
It's a pity makers of Alps compatible PCBs do not make the switch pin holes big enough to allow us to just install the receptacles with some more persuasion with blunt solder iron tip.
Haha, I don't think there is enough room for that (and I don't have the know-how) but maybe Apple hipsters will kind of dig it. The Alps64 looks to be the simplest of the bunch to holtite mod. It may be more time consuming, but handdrilling the holes with a 2mm bit would be my recommendation over the Dremel drill-press method.
Another option is getting an Infinty PCB and you don't even need to install sockets for the switches. E3E figured this out a while ago (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76179.0) and I have tested the connection to be very reliable. This guy (http://imgur.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/u7gin) on Reddit also makes a PCB for the Varmillo VA68m using the same switchhole dimensions. That's the next project.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 19 March 2017, 01:06:42
It's a pity makers of Alps compatible PCBs do not make the switch pin holes big enough to allow us to just install the receptacles with some more persuasion with blunt solder iron tip.
It is a shame. Hasu was not wanting to do this last time I heard. It might be because of fear the holes would be too wide and conflict with certain positions. but I socketed every position in my eagles, which are universal in terms of layout options (not as much as Hau64 though) and it was fine. I'm not sure if it'd be an issue on his PCBs as I'm not familiar with them.
It'd be nice if someone did so one did not need to go through all the hassle of drilling.
Looks like you made it out the other side, but not without hiccups, eh Mandrew? You've got a lot of extra stuff under the PCB it seems, haha. I'm glad you got it all working though. Congrats man!
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 19 March 2017, 08:18:31
Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 19 March 2017, 08:28:09
Well, first of all they are quite rare. they only come on tai-hao FAME models like this one (model number th-5539, read more about it on the deskthority wiki), some old keytrak (blue alps and a trackball... nice)and an AT layout board made by tai-hao, the TH-5150. the mod color is not spot on with OG cherry, it is a bit darker. they use a cherry stab mount.Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!
Post by: chyros on Sun, 19 March 2017, 08:40:51
Watch this.Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!
Post by: E3E on Sun, 19 March 2017, 09:06:39
Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!
Here's one!
(http://i.imgur.com/vfQFZO2.jpg)
My one :)
Yeah, I talked about this with Mike before they posted. Yep, that's pretty much the gist of it.
Post by: E3E on Sun, 19 March 2017, 09:11:25
Another option is getting an Infinty PCB and you don't even need to install sockets for the switches. E3E figured this out a while ago (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76179.0) and I have tested the connection to be very reliable. This guy (http://imgur.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/u7gin) on Reddit also makes a PCB for the Varmillo VA68m using the same switchhole dimensions. That's the next project.
Oh, I'm so happy someone noticed this too. I, ironically, didn't notice this part of your post. Yes, the Infinity keyboard has built in hotswapping inadvertently due to tighter tolerances for the switch positions. I almost regret having sold mine since it made such a perfect functional test bed for Alps switches.
I highly recommend using one if you want a quick and easy way to hot swap switches. Like Mandrew said, it's very reliable, despite the naysayers. Nothing to worry about and even easier to swap than with holtites.
I appreciate your observations, Mandrew. :)
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 19 March 2017, 10:36:39
Watch this.Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!
Here's one!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQFZO2.jpg)
My one :)
Yeah, I talked about this with Mike before they posted. Yep, that's pretty much the gist of it.
I try not to remind myself that these caps exist (by the way who made these? Tai Hao Alps are much thinner) and pray to the old and the new keyboard gods that Matias will deliver some affordable nice thick dyesub for Alps this year or next.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 19 March 2017, 11:43:46
Tai hao made them, but they switched to the thinner caps to save production cost. They do not have the molds anymore.Watch this.Very nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberatelyVery nice. I recently got one of those too, however I am only getting the keycaps. cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps. soooo niceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/ExSQEfG.jpg)
Finally got it in the mail. I do have to say that the clicky switch's sound on this board is fantastic. It's a nice deeper sounding click compared to mx blues
As a linear guy, I'm not really used to typing on these kinds of switches. Having to wait for the switch to reset makes me have to type more slowly and deliberately
wait.. whaaaat????
Tell me more about these cherry profile doubleshot alps keycaps!!!
Here's one!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vfQFZO2.jpg)
My one :)
Yeah, I talked about this with Mike before they posted. Yep, that's pretty much the gist of it.
I try not to remind myself that these caps exist (by the way who made these? Tai Hao Alps are much thinner) and pray to the old and the new keyboard gods that Matias will deliver some affordable nice thick dyesub for Alps this year or next.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 March 2017, 17:44:47
I have already discussed this with E3E, but I thought I would seek your advice as well. Anyone interested in the Packard Bell can PM me. E3E and I came up with a price of $350 since it's NOS, ANSI, SKCM Blue, not yellowed in the slightest (including indicator label and that isn't reversible), no shine on the Alps Electric doubleshot caps, built very well with a metal backplate, and has a perfect coiled cable. Pretty much everything you could ask for!
Your guy's opinion??? The last round of the new Model F's ends on the 31st :confused:
Post by: E3E on Mon, 20 March 2017, 17:51:29
The metal back may be a selling point for some, and this is the only Alps ANSI board with blue Alps and a metal back panel.
If the F77 replica is part of a dream build you have, I'd go for it without hesitation. Fulfilling visions like that you have for a build is very satisfying and rewarding.
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 March 2017, 18:00:37
Expecting a flooded inbox anytime now lol.
Post by: Tuntematon on Mon, 20 March 2017, 19:27:48
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 20 March 2017, 19:33:11
Good luck! $350 should be attainable. Where did you see the 31st as the final deadline? I've been procrastinating on my F77 purchase but I couldn't find anything about this deadline.
Sold it.
$200,000.00+ so far in orders (2/28/17)! Please have your orders in by 3/31/2017!
Not sure if it's for the early bird timeline though.
Post by: mike52787 on Mon, 20 March 2017, 20:02:56
Glad you sold it. Whoever got it got a pretty cool board.Good luck! $350 should be attainable. Where did you see the 31st as the final deadline? I've been procrastinating on my F77 purchase but I couldn't find anything about this deadline.
Sold it.
$200,000.00+ so far in orders (2/28/17)! Please have your orders in by 3/31/2017!
Not sure if it's for the early bird timeline though.
Post by: Tuntematon on Mon, 20 March 2017, 21:29:02
Good luck! $350 should be attainable. Where did you see the 31st as the final deadline? I've been procrastinating on my F77 purchase but I couldn't find anything about this deadline.
Sold it.
$200,000.00+ so far in orders (2/28/17)! Please have your orders in by 3/31/2017!
Not sure if it's for the early bird timeline though.
Congrats on the sale. I've always coveted that Packard Bell, I would have rushed to PM you if I had the money to throw around! :) I think that must be the early bird deadline. There should be a decent separation between the two, as far as I know.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 20 March 2017, 21:45:56
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 20 March 2017, 22:13:32
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 21 March 2017, 12:57:13
So guys, I need your help. I am thinking of selling my Packard Bell T9102 for a new Model F77. I am leaning toward the F77 since I have always wanted a Model F, and in that layout in Industrial Gray, with my special typesetting keycaps I have it would make an absolutely amazing board. Plus I still have my SKCM Amber board so I'm not completely rid of glorious first gen clicky Alps. Plus boards like my SKCM Cream AEKII.All things considered, seems like a fair asking price for the Packard Bell. Wish I could afford it, but I am overspent these days.
I have already discussed this with E3E, but I thought I would seek your advice as well. Anyone interested in the Packard Bell can PM me. E3E and I came up with a price of $350 since it's NOS, ANSI, SKCM Blue, not yellowed in the slightest (including indicator label and that isn't reversible), no shine on the Alps Electric doubleshot caps, built very well with a metal backplate, and has a perfect coiled cable. Pretty much everything you could ask for!
Your guy's opinion??? The last round of the new Model F's ends on the 31st :confused:
Regarding the F62/F77, are you thinking of the original-type case or the "ultracompact" case?
My own preference is the F62 -- I like the form factor (both size and symmetry) and layout. I also tend to favor the original-type case, as it replicates the original Kishsaver and it is a better-known quantity than the ultracompact version.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 March 2017, 19:10:55
All things considered, seems like a fair asking price for the Packard Bell. Wish I could afford it, but I am overspent these days.
Regarding the F62/F77, are you thinking of the original-type case or the "ultracompact" case?
My own preference is the F62 -- I like the form factor (both size and symmetry) and layout. I also tend to favor the original-type case, as it replicates the original Kishsaver and it is a better-known quantity than the ultracompact version.
Yea I'm going for the original case for sure. I want a F77 b/c cursor keys. I don't mind 60%'s but if it's gonna be on my desk 24/7 I want them cursor keys lol. It's just a lot more convenient for me than pressing Fn constantly. The F77 is also the perfect layout for me with the numpad up top. I never use the insert/end keys anyway.
What color are you going to get? For me its Industrial Gray all the way :p Will look great with the green sublegend caps I have.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 21 March 2017, 21:14:05
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46277.0
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 21 March 2017, 21:15:57
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 21 March 2017, 21:17:10
Hey, i figured that all the Alps guys might be interested in my classifieds, I'm selling all of my remaining Alps keycaps. I love Alps and Matias, think they are vastly superior to anything Cherry out there, and consider myself an Alps enthusiast, but I've actually become a bigger fan of Topre. Anyways, if you want any of my remaining Alps/Matias stuff, here it is.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46277.0
just go to reddit stuff sells way faster
Can't stand reddit and every time I make a post I have an error and I have no clue what it is and I can't ever get my stuff to fully post.
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 21 March 2017, 21:18:22
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 21 March 2017, 21:24:59
Hey, i figured that all the Alps guys might be interested in my classifieds, I'm selling all of my remaining Alps keycaps. I love Alps and Matias, think they are vastly superior to anything Cherry out there, and consider myself an Alps enthusiast, but I've actually become a bigger fan of Topre. Anyways, if you want any of my remaining Alps/Matias stuff, here it is.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46277.0
just go to reddit stuff sells way faster
Can't stand reddit and every time I make a post I have an error and I have no clue what it is and I can't ever get my stuff to fully post.
lol your loss. Nothing sells here unless it's super sought after.
Meh, I sell some things here and there, but I will resort to reddit, if need be.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 21 March 2017, 21:37:33
Hey, i figured that all the Alps guys might be interested in my classifieds, I'm selling all of my remaining Alps keycaps. I love Alps and Matias, think they are vastly superior to anything Cherry out there, and consider myself an Alps enthusiast, but I've actually become a bigger fan of Topre. Anyways, if you want any of my remaining Alps/Matias stuff, here it is.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46277.0
just go to reddit stuff sells way faster
Can't stand reddit and every time I make a post I have an error and I have no clue what it is and I can't ever get my stuff to fully post.
lol your loss. Nothing sells here unless it's super sought after.
Meh, I sell some things here and there, but I will resort to reddit, if need be.
I always post my stuff here for a few days and if it doesn't sell, I go to Reddit and add a 2% tax. So much easier to bump items within the Classifieds.
By the way, I sent you a PM :)
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 21 March 2017, 21:54:54
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 21 March 2017, 22:47:48
I still enjoy the Packard Bell but with with my SKCM Amber V60 it's ok :)
Post by: childofthehorn on Tue, 21 March 2017, 23:00:48
Got a yellowed one for free from a warehouse pull, took one Texas Summer Saturday to fix that. These de-yellow quite easily. Mine wasn't THAT yellowed though...No, I don't own an SGI.Yes, I found an Acer 6511 and an AEK in ANSI layout there. The 6511 was brand-new and had Alps-mount caps as well, so I have a brand-new replacement set for my KB-101A ^^ .Yes, part of the reason I didn't get one is that I don't really want an ANSI one, but the ISO verion is pretty rare.
That reskinned AT102.
Did you ever find any ANSI models at the recyclers? I'd think not, but I'm curious.
I meant SGI granite, whoops. When I said "ANSI," I probably already had the logic in my mind but forgot that I didn't clarify it in the message. Probably wrote ANSI there without even thinking, whoops.
Always nice to have replacement key sets for when one wears out or if you want to just keep one for when you make it a "showroom" board for pictures or just to look pretty, haha.
What also makes me reluctant to buy one is that I want an unyellowed one. So I might well have to wait for one xD .
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 22 March 2017, 06:17:48
Hey, i figured that all the Alps guys might be interested in my classifieds, I'm selling all of my remaining Alps keycaps. I love Alps and Matias, think they are vastly superior to anything Cherry out there, and consider myself an Alps enthusiast, but I've actually become a bigger fan of Topre. Anyways, if you want any of my remaining Alps/Matias stuff, here it is.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46277.0
just go to reddit stuff sells way faster
That's also my impression - but why is that?
And when to put things on eBay or local sites like Craiglist?
In here (esp. this thread in GH) and in DT, the audience is more often very specific and they know more what they're doing, at least seems to me so.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 22 March 2017, 07:57:17
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 22 March 2017, 11:29:14
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 22 March 2017, 13:02:32
Was scrolling through Reddit and saw someone sold a few SKCL Browns.
Right, I saw that too.
$150 for 110 Alps SKCL Browns + shipping
and in another listing
$150 for 110 Alps SKCM Blues shipped
Both from Australia.
Kind of are a good deal for both of those, sometimes people can find in /r/MM. The buyers are blessed by Alps gods probably.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 22 March 2017, 15:38:23
Hey, i figured that all the Alps guys might be interested in my classifieds, I'm selling all of my remaining Alps keycaps. I love Alps and Matias, think they are vastly superior to anything Cherry out there, and consider myself an Alps enthusiast, but I've actually become a bigger fan of Topre. Anyways, if you want any of my remaining Alps/Matias stuff, here it is.Your wisdom is needling my conscience. I am typing this on a HHKB, which is my all-time favorite keyboard. Yet I keep acquiring keyboards with Alps or Matias switches and doing refurbishing projects on them. Maybe I will continue selling off my Cherry-switch (and clones) keyboards (and switches and keycaps) -- I hardly use the mx stuff anymore (except occasionally to confirm my preference for Topre, IBM Model F, and Alps/Matias).
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46277.0
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 22 March 2017, 15:50:03
And it is ridiculous that I am fascinated by and still trying to buy key caps and key cap sets that support only MX switches.
My solution is to dedicate my Alps builds to the tactile and clicky switches, and MX to linear.
But wait... Alps and Topre still kind of overlap.
Topre is like my coffee, and occasionally I want to switch to tea (Alps) and enjoy all the rituals involved, e.g. ultrasound cleaning, etc.
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 22 March 2017, 16:40:42
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 22 March 2017, 18:55:17
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 22 March 2017, 18:56:09
**** now I need to solder SMD diodes -_ -Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/BQkTcQB.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SIXQIV3.jpg)
newest Alps PCB's
Not sure what I'll do with it right now, but it looks very nice.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 22 March 2017, 19:20:21
Hey, i figured that all the Alps guys might be interested in my classifieds, I'm selling all of my remaining Alps keycaps. I love Alps and Matias, think they are vastly superior to anything Cherry out there, and consider myself an Alps enthusiast, but I've actually become a bigger fan of Topre. Anyways, if you want any of my remaining Alps/Matias stuff, here it is.Your wisdom is needling my conscience. I am typing this on a HHKB, which is my all-time favorite keyboard. Yet I keep acquiring keyboards with Alps or Matias switches and doing refurbishing projects on them. Maybe I will continue selling off my Cherry-switch (and clones) keyboards (and switches and keycaps) -- I hardly use the mx stuff anymore (except occasionally to confirm my preference for Topre, IBM Model F, and Alps/Matias).
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46277.0
My situation is getting more and more similar - I even want to have a HHKB Pro 1 recently.
And it is ridiculous that I am fascinated by and still trying to buy key caps and key cap sets that support only MX switches.
My solution is to dedicate my Alps builds to the tactile and clicky switches, and MX to linear.
But wait... Alps and Topre still kind of overlap.
Topre is like my coffee, and occasionally I want to switch to tea (Alps) and enjoy all the rituals involved, e.g. ultrasound cleaning, etc.
Oops, I didn't mean to sew doubt into the minds of Alps enthusiasts! I got rid of the Cherry MX keyboards ages ago, because my philosophy was that a switch that required significant modification to the make the switch more enjoyable (different springs, lubing, etc) was not actually a good switch. Cherry switches are not optimized for the tactile typist, more for the gamer and an attempt at mimicking buckling springs (blue and green). Gateron and Zeal PC have done a good job responding to Cherry's shortcomings. Matias switches are perfectly enjoyable to use without modification, along with some Topre variants.
Alps/Matias still offer significant advantages over Topre to the enthusiast. Ability to customize the springs, high actuation point, use with custom layouts or keyboards, an option for clicky or linear switches, variety of keycap sets available, can modify the switch while soldered.
It all depends upon what you prefer. I just personally hate having things around that I don't use.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 26 March 2017, 13:22:19
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 26 March 2017, 17:32:08
Does anyone know if the caps on any of the Canon Typestar series typewriters are Alps compatible?
I don't think so no.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 26 March 2017, 17:33:34
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 26 March 2017, 18:12:21
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 26 March 2017, 19:13:23
So i'm 10 SKCM Browns short for a complete swap into a Wang 725, anyone have any they could spare?
everyone and their brother is ten short for a TKL though!
Good luck!
Thanks. Shouldn't be too hard hopefully.
Anyone have any interest in a clean non shined set of SGI caps? Have to wait two days before posting again in MechMarket >:D
Post by: zutroy on Mon, 27 March 2017, 15:29:00
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but you're all ALPS experts, so I thought you might have experienced something similar.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 March 2017, 15:42:27
(http://i.imgur.com/wLUi2aw.jpg)
"Now you can combine your favorite beverage with your favorite key switch manufacturer!"
I vectorized the Alps logo and used the resulting SVG to make it (which you can find attached to this post). If you want one, you can order your own here (https://www.zazzle.com/old_logo_alps_electric_mug-168148189252641100).
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 27 March 2017, 16:49:19
Post by: E3E on Mon, 27 March 2017, 18:00:07
I am just popping in to share something a little different than our usual fare here on the Alps Appreciation thread. It's a little off-topic, but it is arguably appreciating Alps so I don't think anyone will mind. I present to you... the Alps mug:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLUi2aw.jpg)
"Now you can combine your favorite beverage with your favorite key switch manufacturer!"
I vectorized the Alps logo and used the resulting SVG to make it (which you can find attached to this post). If you want one, you can order your own here (https://www.zazzle.com/old_logo_alps_electric_mug-168148189252641100).
Dude thanks so much for that SVG. This is something I wanted to do for a while, but I'm not the best at working with AI.
We cheated a little but yeah, it's great to have now, huh? Haha
Post by: chyros on Mon, 27 March 2017, 19:23:59
I am just popping in to share something a little different than our usual fare here on the Alps Appreciation thread. It's a little off-topic, but it is arguably appreciating Alps so I don't think anyone will mind. I present to you... the Alps mug:That's... awesome?!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/wLUi2aw.jpg)
"Now you can combine your favorite beverage with your favorite key switch manufacturer!"
I vectorized the Alps logo and used the resulting SVG to make it (which you can find attached to this post). If you want one, you can order your own here (https://www.zazzle.com/old_logo_alps_electric_mug-168148189252641100).
Post by: Mattr567 on Mon, 27 March 2017, 22:30:20
Post by: Delirious on Tue, 28 March 2017, 00:02:18
Post by: E3E on Tue, 28 March 2017, 00:59:51
Would Ambers from Apple IIC be a good midpoint between Blues and Pine Whites? I started using pine whites for a little bit and they started to grow on me. Then I took out my blues just for comparison and holy ****. The differences are just sad. Why did I even bother with white.
You could say that, but the exceed the SKCM White's tactility and are actually one of the most tactile switches of the Alps family. The weight isn't too bad. Let me measure it with nickles and such right now.
Okay, just measured SKCM Amber on an IIc I have for a customer. I get it to bottom out every time at 75 grams, so it's a 5g difference between SKCM White.
SKCM Amber - 75g
SKCM White - 70g
SKCM Blue (for refrence with my weights) - 65g
The bigger difference is that the SKCM Amber has a more refined feel and a more robust and solid click that's in the middle between SKCM Blue and White. Not as nice as blue, but definitely nicer than whites.
I'm tempted to say that they are also smoother than whites, but if you have pine SKCM White in good condition, they might be very similar in smoothness. Also be aware that you aren't using bamboo SKCM Whites which lack slitted tops and feel a lot cheaper in comparison to pine versions.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 28 March 2017, 03:19:27
Would Ambers from Apple IIC be a good midpoint between Blues and Pine Whites? I started using pine whites for a little bit and they started to grow on me. Then I took out my blues just for comparison and holy ****. The differences are just sad. Why did I even bother with white.They're basically blues except more tactile. Very nice switches.
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 28 March 2017, 19:13:25
For the rest I am offering the reward of 1 SKCL Striped Amber, yes you heard me correctly ;)
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:58:52
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:44:41
Should I make all the holes 2mm to allow the installation of holtite sockets (pricier) or use the same universal pads that Input Club uses on their Infinity PCBs which are tight enough for hotswappability? Leaning towards the universal.
I have to order the batch in a minimum qty of 5 and plan on selling leftovers for ~$9+ shipping. If more than three people are interested, I will order ten of them and price will be $6+ shipping . All you need past that is an A-Star controller and 1N4148 diodes. I am ordering this regardless of interest and trying to sell leftovers but figured its cheap enough of an alps switchtester others might want one.
Also I am selling my set of Alpine winter with height defects if anyone is into that. ;D
Post by: menuhin on Thu, 30 March 2017, 16:31:19
There is also this person on /r/mk who shares his ever-changing prototypes of small size Ergoboard in Alps switches.
He made a lot of good points in his design decisions, although he's more like a practical engineer and not someone like who can perfect a piece of art.
His latest Alps mini-ergoboard (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/62fw8n/photos_latest_custom_signum_ii/) looks quite well designed, e.g. the layout, the angles of hands.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 31 March 2017, 23:52:06
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 01 April 2017, 08:20:34
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 01 April 2017, 21:57:12
SMD Diodes all soldered :)
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 02 April 2017, 06:12:21
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qyD3BXH.jpg)
SMD Diodes all soldered :)
Wow where'd you get that white pcb? So pretty. I've got one lined up for a future build but its the normal black solder mask.
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 02 April 2017, 07:31:00
Custom order from leeku, we got the alps logo printed on it as well. It came out so nice I made it my new avatar :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qyD3BXH.jpg)
SMD Diodes all soldered :)
Wow where'd you get that white pcb? So pretty. I've got one lined up for a future build but its the normal black solder mask.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 02 April 2017, 10:11:36
Post by: E3E on Sun, 02 April 2017, 18:08:12
Custom order from leeku, we got the alps logo printed on it as well. It came out so nice I made it my new avatar :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qyD3BXH.jpg)
SMD Diodes all soldered :)
Wow where'd you get that white pcb? So pretty. I've got one lined up for a future build but its the normal black solder mask.
Yes I believe it was either my or E3E's idea to get the logo. He has some more, but I believe he is away from Korea for a month or so.
Yep, I pretty much call it a collaborative effort between Mike, Alienman, and myself. We picked out the most suitable mask for our tastes and I had the idea for the logo along with the "MADE IN KOREA" printing taking a cue from the Tandem 6526 PCB.
(http://i.imgur.com/Yb9Ylzk.jpg)
They're definitely very special PCBs.
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 02 April 2017, 18:13:55
Custom order from leeku, we got the alps logo printed on it as well. It came out so nice I made it my new avatar :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qyD3BXH.jpg)
SMD Diodes all soldered :)
Wow where'd you get that white pcb? So pretty. I've got one lined up for a future build but its the normal black solder mask.
Dang! Have you got any extras you could sell? Or is it better to contact Leeku via email?
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 02 April 2017, 18:35:23
Post by: E3E on Sun, 02 April 2017, 19:12:49
Custom order from leeku, we got the alps logo printed on it as well. It came out so nice I made it my new avatar :)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qyD3BXH.jpg)
SMD Diodes all soldered :)
Wow where'd you get that white pcb? So pretty. I've got one lined up for a future build but its the normal black solder mask.
Dang! Have you got any extras you could sell? Or is it better to contact Leeku via email?
he is definitely away for a while, but I know he was at least 15 extras.
Yeah, I remember the quantity being ~20. Yeah, he won't be able to ship for a while at the moment. I have two extra PCBs myself.
I've hotswap modded my own. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/L0sE4WU.jpg)
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 04 April 2017, 10:12:07
I really want to try to mod my SGI Granite Hotswappable, and perhaps also the Zenith Z-150, and perhaps some more. But those have single layer PCB and I probably have to drill holes and also solder the receptacles after installing them. And Holtite, because of its structure, may not be suitable for such a task, e.g. being soldered at the pointed end.
May want to source some cheap but working receptacles for Alps from TaoBao for such a purpose.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 04 April 2017, 10:43:54
So sometimes the hotswap mod for Alps switches will have the Holtite receptacles sticking out instead of seated flush with the PCB?
I really want to try to mod my SGI Granite Hotswappable, and perhaps also the Zenith Z-150, and perhaps some more. But those have single layer PCB and I probably have to drill holes and also solder the receptacles after installing them. And Holtite, because of its structure, may not be suitable for such a task, e.g. being soldered at the pointed end.
May want to source some cheap but working receptacles for Alps from TaoBao for such a purpose.
You're viewing the PCB upside down. They will be flush if they're inserted properly.
(http://i.imgur.com/fPItSNS.jpg)
Yeah, I wouldn't count on using holtites for the older PCBs. Something that's wide enough and designed for soldering would work, like a mill max socket. It will almost invariably not be flush with the board, but it's a small price to pay for compatibility. You will have to use a drill though, again (and hope that enough of the pad is left for soldering).
(http://i.imgur.com/fvHlzbW.jpg)
I might make this hotswap mod process for Alps look trivial, but it really isn't. The Leeku L3 Alphas PCB is particularly difficult compared to other PCBs I've worked with. I've had to fix every single connection after drilling. Conductive ink is a godsend.
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 04 April 2017, 11:26:57
Quote
... I've had to fix every single connection after drilling. Conductive ink ...
:eek:
I know, after drilling there may not be enough conductive pad for that pin hole already.
And other aspects about make older Alps boards hotswappable is that I am not sure if their plates are mounted or their PCBs are mounted. If mainly just the PCB is stabilized, then typing on such a hotswap modded old board may feel real wobbly.
Post by: E3E on Tue, 04 April 2017, 12:24:49
Quote... I've had to fix every single connection after drilling. Conductive ink ...
:eek:
I know, after drilling there may not be enough conductive pad for that pin hole already.
And other aspects about make older Alps boards hotswappable is that I am not sure if their plates are mounted or their PCBs are mounted. If mainly just the PCB is stabilized, then typing on such a hotswap modded old board may feel real wobbly.
Why do you say you think that a modded board would be wobbly? If the case design is good then there shouldn't be an issues or unnecessary lift or slip when removing and replacing switches.
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 04 April 2017, 12:37:47
If the PCB is mounted to the plastic case and the metal plate is sort of floating / mainly stabilized by the switches, and if the switches are all connected only through receptacles to the PCB, then I assume the feel of key press will not be as solid as when the switches are soldered in, or when the plate is mounted ("top-mounted").
Post by: E3E on Tue, 04 April 2017, 12:51:31
I haven't tried any of these before, it is just my speculation:
If the PCB is mounted to the plastic case and the metal plate is sort of floating / mainly stabilized by the switches, and if the switches are all connected only through receptacles to the PCB, then I assume the feel of key press will not be as solid as when the switches are soldered in, or when the plate is mounted ("top-mounted").
Haha, I don't think you understand just how solidly the switches are held in! They don't just slip in like they're free-floating, but are held pretty snug, that combined with the plate makes them very solid. In my experience, and I've got five of these hotswap builds now, there's no difference in terms of key press at all between soldered and holtite socketed.
It's true that you can potentially pull out a switch during a key cap pull if the cap is particularly tight, but the benefits outweigh the minor convenience imo. Feel-wise, they're pretty much identical.
I'm a little confused about the idea of the switches feeling less solid in a "tray mounted" setup though. Are you saying because the plate isn't supported by screws? The switches support the plate just as well as if they were soldered, in my experience.
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:52:49
Finally finished it :)
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 12 April 2017, 10:26:24
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zcC4LSc.jpg)
Finally finished it :)
The original documentation really puts this over the top. Well done!
Post by: menuhin on Wed, 12 April 2017, 11:26:25
......
I'm a little confused about the idea of the switches feeling less solid in a "tray mounted" setup though. Are you saying because the plate isn't supported by screws? The switches support the plate just as well as if they were soldered, in my experience.
Perhaps it is just me trying to get the most solid top-mount experience for linear switch. I actually type a lot on HHKB and feel that is adequate, so there shouldn't be a problem for me about tray-mounted board with plate-mounted switches.
I am in the process of looking for parts for a 'True' HHKB build for the Infinity 60% PCB, got stuck in frustration about the nonavailability of HHKB-style case, all of those can be found only in /r/mm with premium, or in some future group-buys. It is not that totally don't like modern ANSI layout, but the symmetry is HHKB layout is much more pleasing.
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 12 April 2017, 13:09:47
Another painter of Northgate cases!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zcC4LSc.jpg)
Finally finished it :)
Post by: digi on Thu, 13 April 2017, 12:05:39
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 13 April 2017, 14:09:53
Post by: digi on Thu, 13 April 2017, 14:35:48
Monterey Blues in my new SIIG Minitouch, highly underrated!!! :thumb:
new as in new? or new to you?
There was one on eBay, but the dude wants way too much for the **** condition it's in.
Brand new and new to me!
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 13 April 2017, 20:13:58
new as in new?
A few years ago there were a dozen or so new-in-box listed on ebay in Florida for a ridiculous price like $20-$30.
I could only afford 1 but then I listed them here and they were gone within the hour.
Eventually I sold mine unopened for 2x-3x what I paid for it when I realized that I would never give it the home it deserved.
Post by: digi on Fri, 14 April 2017, 13:09:29
new as in new?
A few years ago there were a dozen or so new-in-box listed on ebay in Florida for a ridiculous price like $20-$30.
I could only afford 1 but then I listed them here and they were gone within the hour.
Eventually I sold mine unopened for 2x-3x what I paid for it when I realized that I would never give it the home it deserved.
I paid A LOT more than that, ouch! But hey, it's a great board.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 14 April 2017, 13:28:55
Similar story here. I wanted to like the board, but the layout didn't work for me. Such is the case with all the boards I've tried in the twilight zone between 60% and TKL or full-size. However, I still have a SIIG Suntouch Jr with SKCM white Alps that might work.
new as in new?
A few years ago there were a dozen or so new-in-box listed on ebay in Florida for a ridiculous price like $20-$30.
I could only afford 1 but then I listed them here and they were gone within the hour.
Eventually I sold mine unopened for 2x-3x what I paid for it when I realized that I would never give it the home it deserved.
[attachimg=1]
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60490.0
I'm thinking of remapping the Backslash to Enter and remapping Enter to Backspace. This should be a better configuration than I could get with the backward-L Enter on the SIIG Minitouch.
Post by: smithyithy on Fri, 14 April 2017, 14:50:40
Post by: digi on Fri, 14 April 2017, 15:06:53
Similar story here. I wanted to like the board, but the layout didn't work for me. Such is the case with all the boards I've tried in the twilight zone between 60% and TKL or full-size. However, I still have a SIIG Suntouch Jr with SKCM white Alps that might work.
new as in new?
A few years ago there were a dozen or so new-in-box listed on ebay in Florida for a ridiculous price like $20-$30.
I could only afford 1 but then I listed them here and they were gone within the hour.
Eventually I sold mine unopened for 2x-3x what I paid for it when I realized that I would never give it the home it deserved.
(Attachment Link)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60490.0
I'm thinking of remapping the Backslash to Enter and remapping Enter to Backspace. This should be a better configuration than I could get with the backward-L Enter on the SIIG Minitouch.
How are you going to remap? Teensy?
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 14 April 2017, 15:24:33
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 14 April 2017, 16:22:14
Post by: digi on Fri, 14 April 2017, 16:23:30
@digi: For remapping, I usually start with remapping software. My favorite for Windows is ATNsoft Key Manager. Then if it appears that the remapping is what I want, and if I am serious about the keyboard, I move to either an internal or external converter using a Teensy or similar board with Soarer's converter. Depending on the keyboard and its controller, I might use a Hasu or Xwhatsit converter.
Cool! Thanks, yea I need to play around with that, I was chatting with Alienman about it too..
Cross-posting (and dressing) this beauty from the Post your Alps board thread:
(http://i.imgur.com/SdzDqnf.jpg)
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 14 April 2017, 21:38:59
(http://i.imgur.com/lciipCm.jpg)
Not sure what the exact switches are, but
The enter key seems to use some tactile but non-clicky switch. I have been unable to remove the keycap though so it could just be a weird stab making it act funny.
(http://i.imgur.com/TIyd7ux.jpg)
Couldn't find much information on this keyboard.
(http://i.imgur.com/45eYQOR.jpg)
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 14 April 2017, 23:51:43
(https://i.imgur.com/SKfzKUc.jpg)
Had to sacrifice a Next non-adb for this. I don't know where should I clue the apple logo
Post by: E3E on Sat, 15 April 2017, 00:19:36
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fC8Ou5g.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SKfzKUc.jpg)
Had to sacrifice a Next non-adb for this. I don't know where should I clue the apple logo
(http://i.imgur.com/OIPpVn7.jpg)
Tai Hao Hebrew too? Looks good!
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 15 April 2017, 00:22:04
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fC8Ou5g.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SKfzKUc.jpg)
Had to sacrifice a Next non-adb for this. I don't know where should I clue the apple logoShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/OIPpVn7.jpg)
Tai Hao Hebrew too? Looks good!
That's the one, I got lucky it's in pristine condition
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 15 April 2017, 00:23:47
Alps SKCM Cream Custom with a flipped spacebar. A man after my own heart. love it!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fC8Ou5g.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SKfzKUc.jpg)
Had to sacrifice a Next non-adb for this. I don't know where should I clue the apple logo
Post by: E3E on Sat, 15 April 2017, 01:30:43
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/fC8Ou5g.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SKfzKUc.jpg)
Had to sacrifice a Next non-adb for this. I don't know where should I clue the apple logoShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/OIPpVn7.jpg)
Tai Hao Hebrew too? Looks good!
That's the one, I got lucky it's in pristine condition
Nice find, do you mind my asking where you found it? I got an APC board thanks to Bromono and Alienman being swell dudes and helping me with the board. The caps were pretty much unused in my case too, which only makes me not want to use them, heh.
Also, yes~ SKCM Creams are great.
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 15 April 2017, 09:18:17
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 20 April 2017, 09:49:30
Better photos of the finished product will come later.
(http://i.imgur.com/vhv24rj.jpg)
Where it started. Gutted board, originally came with pine white alps.
(http://i.imgur.com/LyufLja.jpg)
Warning! PCB gore! The stock arrow and bottom row layout sucked ass, so I had to fix that. This is the first time I have ever lifted pads on purpose... but definitely not the first time.
(http://i.imgur.com/SFWGD8o.jpg)
All patched up and soldered together.
(http://i.imgur.com/MkXIVYF.jpg)
Greenies!
(http://i.imgur.com/XQeEGia.jpg)
The Semi finished product. I am working on getting more alps sphericals to hopefully get rid of most of the apple pbt caps. Also, terrible photo as I was very tired when taking this...
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 20 April 2017, 11:42:35
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 20 April 2017, 11:54:36
nice job mikethanks buddy
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 20 April 2017, 13:15:45
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 20 April 2017, 13:16:35
Nice little board you have there, NOS?yeah it was, but I sold the NOS pine whites a long time ago
Post by: babyfeets on Thu, 20 April 2017, 18:25:15
Hey guys, can I appreciate some Alps with you? I should have bought these years ago instead of mainstream cherry stuff. It's nicer built, cheaper and stylish as well. The Dell is getting the rest of the click mod but I've been using it with only the alphabet section on so that I could notice every time I went for a key with no cap on it. That's right, it's destined for a 60% plate chop. Slightly OT HamKenobi on reddit recently stole this totally original idea and has a great build log. http://imgur.com/a/GDMrP (http://imgur.com/a/GDMrP)
The Focus arrived today and it's immediately taken over. I got it instead of an Omnikey because it seems more ethical to chop a Focus, but I'm in no hurry; this keyboard is great as-is. Overall, 9/10 these Alps are appreciated and I could only wish for some heavier weight springs. I'm giving 80g cherry-stotles one last chance to win me over, but as of right now I'm a convert.
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 20 April 2017, 18:30:18
Post by: babyfeets on Thu, 20 April 2017, 18:37:55
I knew samsung batteries broke fast, but damn that's a lot of batteries.
Yeah, that's definitely OT but I used to play a huge amount of a mobile game called Summoners War and those were a side effect of having the game run all day long. I would coincidentally not recommend that game.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 21 April 2017, 01:08:04
I broke out my 2002 recently for another spin, and it's just such a nice and fun board to use :D . Do you have the dust cover for it?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/C5fGMrN.jpg)
Hey guys, can I appreciate some Alps with you? I should have bought these years ago instead of mainstream cherry stuff. It's nicer built, cheaper and stylish as well. The Dell is getting the rest of the click mod but I've been using it with only the alphabet section on so that I could notice every time I went for a key with no cap on it. That's right, it's destined for a 60% plate chop. Slightly OT HamKenobi on reddit recently stole this totally original idea and has a great build log. http://imgur.com/a/GDMrP (http://imgur.com/a/GDMrP)
The Focus arrived today and it's immediately taken over. I got it instead of an Omnikey because it seems more ethical to chop a Focus, but I'm in no hurry; this keyboard is great as-is. Overall, 9/10 these Alps are appreciated and I could only wish for some heavier weight springs. I'm giving 80g cherry-stotles one last chance to win me over, but as of right now I'm a convert.
Post by: babyfeets on Fri, 21 April 2017, 07:39:16
I broke out my 2002 recently for another spin, and it's just such a nice and fun board to use :D . Do you have the dust cover for it?I do not, I wasn't looking for one. It may be superficial but I bid on this one because of the Turbo key in the correct profile for the right shift spot. It has great accents for a 60%: Macro, asterisk, and Turbo. If I had a dust cover it would definitely never be modded.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 21 April 2017, 10:07:07
At the same time the keyboard is so weird it would kind of be a shame to dismantle it.
Post by: _rubik on Fri, 21 April 2017, 16:03:40
(https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 21 April 2017, 21:59:12
I am so pleased to finally be able to contribute to this thread. VA78 con AEK and Alps Blues :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg
Looks great!
Post by: duyminh211 on Sat, 22 April 2017, 07:02:31
I am so pleased to finally be able to contribute to this thread. VA78 con AEK and Alps Blues :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg
Looking great. Is the VA78 plate compatible with ALPS? Did you get it from Taobao?
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 22 April 2017, 10:24:32
I am so pleased to finally be able to contribute to this thread. VA78 con AEK and Alps Blues :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg
Looking great. Is the VA78 plate compatible with ALPS? Did you get it from Taobao?
It actually isn't a VA68 plate. The whole package has been designed by /u/ca178858 (Scott). Super helpful guy who has designed the pcb, plate, and qmk firmware for his board -- LFK78. http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM (http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM)
Essentially, it's his creation designed to fit into a VA68 Case (which I still need to buy), but use Alps. I also fully don't know what to call it. VAEK68?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 22 April 2017, 13:21:46
It actually isn't a VA68 plate. The whole package has been designed by /u/ca178858 (Scott). Super helpful guy who has designed the pcb, plate, and qmk firmware for his board -- LFK78. http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM (http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM)
Essentially, it's his creation designed to fit into a VA68 Case (which I still need to buy), but use Alps. I also fully don't know what to call it. VAEK68?
Speaking of which, does anyone know how he got nav cluster keys of Alpine Winter with legends? As far as I know, those were not part of the group buy:
(http://i.imgur.com/qgt2194.jpg)
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 22 April 2017, 13:50:16
I am so pleased to finally be able to contribute to this thread. VA78 con AEK and Alps Blues :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg
Looking great. Is the VA78 plate compatible with ALPS? Did you get it from Taobao?
It actually isn't a VA68 plate. The whole package has been designed by /u/ca178858 (Scott). Super helpful guy who has designed the pcb, plate, and qmk firmware for his board -- LFK78. http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM (http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM)
Essentially, it's his creation designed to fit into a VA68 Case (which I still need to buy), but use Alps. I also fully don't know what to call it. VAEK68?
Legit!
This is going to an Alps board for me in the future (for my caps and switches), have to keep an eye to Scott's group buy first.
Post by: romevi on Sat, 22 April 2017, 13:51:34
It actually isn't a VA68 plate. The whole package has been designed by /u/ca178858 (Scott). Super helpful guy who has designed the pcb, plate, and qmk firmware for his board -- LFK78. http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM (http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM)
Essentially, it's his creation designed to fit into a VA68 Case (which I still need to buy), but use Alps. I also fully don't know what to call it. VAEK68?
Speaking of which, does anyone know how he got nav cluster keys of Alpine Winter with legends? As far as I know, those were not part of the group buy:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qgt2194.jpg)
Responding here as well in case anyone misses it:
Probably from skullydazed. He sold some Alpine Winter kits which included extra keys to make it compatible for the Clueboard.
I missed the boat on them due to lack of funds at the time so now I have to find the elusive Alpine Winter: Clueboard Edition keysets aftermarket. :'(
Here's the original link: https://clueboard.co/parts/alpine-winter-alps-dcs-for-60-or-66. But the page seems to have been cleared.
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 22 April 2017, 13:55:24
I am so pleased to finally be able to contribute to this thread. VA78 con AEK and Alps Blues :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/5Yd1VFm.jpg
Looking great. Is the VA78 plate compatible with ALPS? Did you get it from Taobao?
It actually isn't a VA68 plate. The whole package has been designed by /u/ca178858 (Scott). Super helpful guy who has designed the pcb, plate, and qmk firmware for his board -- LFK78. http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM (http://imgur.com/a/VLKBM)
Essentially, it's his creation designed to fit into a VA68 Case (which I still need to buy), but use Alps. I also fully don't know what to call it. VAEK68?
Legit!
This is going to an Alps board for me in the future (for my caps and switches), have to keep an eye to Scott's group buy first.
Yeah I couldn't be happier with my first alps board. I love the idea of taking a modern interpretation on vintage parts. I plan to rebuild the LE DC2014 I got these blues from with a handwire, oranges with the click mod, original keycaps, and a solid retr0bright. That being said.. nothing is better than an all original board.
I'll have to post picture of this VAEK once I get the VA68 case in. I'm thinking the space grey case, thoughts?
Post by: E3E on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:06:58
Responding here as well in case anyone misses it:Probably from skullydazed. He sold some Alpine Winter kits which included extra keys to make it compatible for the Clueboard.
I missed the boat on them due to lack of funds at the time so now I have to find the elusive Alpine Winter: Clueboard Edition keysets aftermarket. :'(
Here's the original link: https://clueboard.co/parts/alpine-winter-alps-dcs-for-60-or-66. But the page seems to have been cleared.
Thanks for the response, romevi! :thumb:
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:18:35
You can't go wrong with either silver or space grey, I think whiter caps go with silver case.
I don't want to let you kill an SGI Granite board... but imagine the Granite caps pair with space grey case? I feel like drooling already.
(http://i.imgur.com/AtU8XMU.png)
God-sent: such a beautiful case at around $135 "only" (when I compare it to other GB and Korean customs...), and with QMK, and vintage Alps.
The designer's 78-key design doesn't look as promising, I will miss the F keys row forever then.
I think I may try to cut my own plate in SS with Lasergist, is the plate design for the VAEK68 open-source?
By the way, _rubik, how long does it take for you to finish a 3x3x3 rubik cube on average? ;)
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:22:46
@_rubik
You can't go wrong with either silver or space grey, I think whiter caps go with silver case.
I don't want to let you kill an SGI Granite board... but imagine the Granite caps pair with space grey case? I feel like drooling already.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AtU8XMU.png)
God-sent: such a beautiful case at around $135 "only" (when I compare it to other GB and Korean customs...), and with QMK, and vintage Alps.
The designer's 78-key design doesn't look as promising, I will miss the F keys row forever then.
I think I may try to cut my own plate in SS with Lasergist, is the plate design for the VAEK68 open-source?
By the way, _rubik, how long does it take for you to finish a 3x3x3 rubik cube on average? ;)
Well
Also, I'm real slow. Usually around 2 or 3 minutes. It's just a stress relief for me.
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:28:55
@_rubik
You can't go wrong with either silver or space grey, I think whiter caps go with silver case.
I don't want to let you kill an SGI Granite board... but imagine the Granite caps pair with space grey case? I feel like drooling already.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AtU8XMU.png)
God-sent: such a beautiful case at around $135 "only" (when I compare it to other GB and Korean customs...), and with QMK, and vintage Alps.
The designer's 78-key design doesn't look as promising, I will miss the F keys row forever then.
I think I may try to cut my own plate in SS with Lasergist, is the plate design for the VAEK68 open-source?
By the way, _rubik, how long does it take for you to finish a 3x3x3 rubik cube on average? ;)
Well Leopold will actually sell me the case cheap once they get their production issues out of the way, so that's nice.
Also, I'm real slow. Usually around 2 or 3 minutes. It's just a stress relief for me.
Leopold? The Korean company or a user at GH/MK/DT?
How cheap? I mean I don't need to know if that is more of a personal trade, but just in case he/they are selling more of them in cheaper price.
p.s. I always think Rubik's cube should become a key cap set theme but it has not happened yet.
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:43:50
Post by: smithyithy on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:55:44
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 22 April 2017, 15:01:21
Also, I emailed Cynthia (zhh19@zhihaihe.cn) and was quoted $70 USD for the case only + $22 for shipping from China.
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 22 April 2017, 15:33:56
I have one of those. Its not put together yet but PSA; the cutout tolerances are tight enough on the PCB, you don't have to solder alps switches.
Also, I emailed Cynthia (zhh19@zhihaihe.cn) and was quoted $70 USD for the case only + $22 for shipping from China.
Yeah I was told when buying to lay down electrical tape on the bottom of the case so they don't short. That and I may need to trim some solder down. It's 100% a tight fit.
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 22 April 2017, 16:06:40
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 22 April 2017, 16:44:58
I have one of those. Its not put together yet but PSA; the cutout tolerances are tight enough on the PCB, you don't have to solder alps switches.
...
Another "hotswappable" Alps PCB? Lovely! :thumb:
Post by: E3E on Sat, 22 April 2017, 17:16:06
I have one of those. Its not put together yet but PSA; the cutout tolerances are tight enough on the PCB, you don't have to solder alps switches.
Also, I emailed Cynthia (zhh19@zhihaihe.cn) and was quoted $70 USD for the case only + $22 for shipping from China.
Like the Infinity PCB, right? That's good to know!
Post by: _rubik on Sat, 22 April 2017, 18:01:23
I have one of those. Its not put together yet but PSA; the cutout tolerances are tight enough on the PCB, you don't have to solder alps switches.
Also, I emailed Cynthia (zhh19@zhihaihe.cn) and was quoted $70 USD for the case only + $22 for shipping from China.
Like the Infinity PCB, right? That's good to know!
I initially tried the 'no solder approach' and it didn't work what-so-ever. I really only can speak for the LFK78 RevD, but no it's not hotswappable.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 22 April 2017, 20:52:11
I have one of those. Its not put together yet but PSA; the cutout tolerances are tight enough on the PCB, you don't have to solder alps switches.
Also, I emailed Cynthia (zhh19@zhihaihe.cn) and was quoted $70 USD for the case only + $22 for shipping from China.
Like the Infinity PCB, right? That's good to know!
I initially tried the 'no solder approach' and it didn't work what-so-ever. I really only can speak for the LFK78 RevD, but no it's not hotswappable.
I got in on the first batch, but have been too busy to put it together and mess with QMK. It seemed to work when I tested with a multimeter but I suppose that could differ in real-world testing. Will update later.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 23 April 2017, 21:37:05
Linear switches feel right at home on the other hands. I had to put aside Undamp Creams for now, the next keyboard will definitely have carbon fiber/plastic plate.
Post by: dante on Mon, 24 April 2017, 19:27:25
Post by: invariance on Mon, 24 April 2017, 19:52:07
Quote
IBM 07G0905 (Marvel KB-A103S)From here (https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u=http://curio.egloos.com/2556386&prev=search).
- Manufacturer: Korea Marvel Co., Ltd. (Made in Korea)
- Year of manufacture: mid-1990s
- Part no. : 07G0905
- EC No. : C81374
- FCC ID: N / A
- Serial No. : 83-44735
- Keycaps printing: Silk printing
- Array: 103 key layout
- Panel: Flat panel
- Connector: PS / 2 connector (6-pin mini DIN)
- Alps white axis switch (Click Tactile)
Post by: E3E on Tue, 25 April 2017, 05:00:28
Post by: Mattr567 on Tue, 25 April 2017, 20:26:46
Ahh, an IBM branded AT101, oh nope. This is different. Hmmm... Yeah, seems like a unique model but it has familiar stylings to other keyboards.
It's an Alps LCM30.
Like this:
Post by: E3E on Wed, 26 April 2017, 00:55:47
Ahh, an IBM branded AT101, oh nope. This is different. Hmmm... Yeah, seems like a unique model but it has familiar stylings to other keyboards.
It's an Alps LCM30.
Like this:
No, the case ans layout is a bit different. I don't think any of the Korean-made boards have straight equivalents to Alps' other makes.
This is the closest to it, and it's not Alps-made. It seems like the IBM is an Alps switch version though.
Post by: loud_asian on Thu, 27 April 2017, 18:27:29
just got another alps board in
After typing on it for a couple of minutes, I can definitively conclude that dampened whites aren't for me.
My switch preference from what I've tried so far is now SKCL Greens > SKCM White Damped > TaiHao Aruz
Post by: iLLucionist on Fri, 28 April 2017, 16:45:13
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoypsXp.jpg)
just got another alps board in
After typing on it for a couple of minutes, I can definitively conclude that dampened whites aren't for me.
My switch preference from what I've tried so far is now SKCL Greens > SKCM White Damped > TaiHao Aruz
Can you try to put in words what you don't like about it?
Post by: MandrewDavis on Fri, 28 April 2017, 22:08:00
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoypsXp.jpg)
just got another alps board in
After typing on it for a couple of minutes, I can definitively conclude that dampened whites aren't for me.
My switch preference from what I've tried so far is now SKCL Greens > SKCM White Damped > TaiHao Aruz
Can you try to put in words what you don't like about it?
To start, Dampened White Alps use bamboo tops, which will make almost any good switch feel like poo. After that, its all subjective.
Honestly though, I have tried quite a few different switches, but my SKCL green board is the daily driver I always come back to.
Post by: loud_asian on Fri, 28 April 2017, 22:24:41
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoypsXp.jpg)
just got another alps board in
After typing on it for a couple of minutes, I can definitively conclude that dampened whites aren't for me.
My switch preference from what I've tried so far is now SKCL Greens > SKCM White Damped > TaiHao Aruz
Can you try to put in words what you don't like about it?
My favorite switch type is linear. Trying out skcm whites and taihao aruz, I can see now why they're my favorite. With linear switches, when you press down on a switch its just a smooth, uninterrupted press. With whites and aruz, the tactile bumps slow me down. If I try to type as fast as I do on linear switches, I end up missing the second press of a key (hello would come out as helo). This is most likely because I'm not used to having to wait for the bump to reset to press again.
When I type on these 2 kinds of switches, I have to adopt a different typing style where my fingers aren't on the keycaps but hovering about 1 cm over instead. This style allows me to press the switch fast enough to almost not feel the bump at all. Although I'm pressing the key faster, I still have to type slower and more deliberately to get a word out.
Although I don't like the feeling of these switches, I do have to say that the sound that comes out of both these switches is sublime. The sound is just a wonderful deep pitch. Now I don't know if its the switches themselves or a combination of the switches and the case acoustics that produce this sound, but whatever they're doing it sounds fantastic.
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 28 April 2017, 22:28:56
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 29 April 2017, 09:50:43
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoypsXp.jpg)
just got another alps board in
After typing on it for a couple of minutes, I can definitively conclude that dampened whites aren't for me.
My switch preference from what I've tried so far is now SKCL Greens > SKCM White Damped > TaiHao Aruz
Can you try to put in words what you don't like about it?
My favorite switch type is linear. Trying out skcm whites and taihao aruz, I can see now why they're my favorite. With linear switches, when you press down on a switch its just a smooth, uninterrupted press. With whites and aruz, the tactile bumps slow me down. If I try to type as fast as I do on linear switches, I end up missing the second press of a key (hello would come out as helo). This is most likely because I'm not used to having to wait for the bump to reset to press again.
When I type on these 2 kinds of switches, I have to adopt a different typing style where my fingers aren't on the keycaps but hovering about 1 cm over instead. This style allows me to press the switch fast enough to almost not feel the bump at all. Although I'm pressing the key faster, I still have to type slower and more deliberately to get a word out.
Although I don't like the feeling of these switches, I do have to say that the sound that comes out of both these switches is sublime. The sound is just a wonderful deep pitch. Now I don't know if its the switches themselves or a combination of the switches and the case acoustics that produce this sound, but whatever they're doing it sounds fantastic.
I can imagine. I also would like to try linears but I cannot decide whether I want reds or blacks to start with. I always liked the sound of ALPS but not being able to find replacement caps easily put me off a bit.
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 29 April 2017, 21:27:13
Try modding those dampened whites!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoypsXp.jpg)
just got another alps board in
After typing on it for a couple of minutes, I can definitively conclude that dampened whites aren't for me.
My switch preference from what I've tried so far is now SKCL Greens > SKCM White Damped > TaiHao Aruz
Matias Click leaves inside dampened cream/white feel outstanding.
Post by: waldorf120 on Mon, 01 May 2017, 17:36:06
(http://i.imgur.com/bem6zhh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GONSRGY.jpg)
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 10 May 2017, 19:07:46
(https://i.imgur.com/LAFsikG.jpg)
Post by: nevin on Wed, 17 May 2017, 07:57:38
I like thick lips but the sides are too much.
[attachimg=1]
sorry, had to.
Right ...back on subject... Most recent board (that i'm using right now) is a apple m0110a (pre-platinum/early alps version, Alps SKCC Tall Cream). Really digging the feel & sound. This is my first time trying any linear alps. I'm not a huge fan of stabilizers either and this board only has one, the spacebar. Bonus. The actuation point seems to be pretty high on these switches compared to later alps or mx switches.
Another recent addition was a IIgs keyboard (Apple 658-4081) which was horribly yellowed to the point it was verging on orange/brown. Orange tactile alps. Really like this as well as tactile switches seem to be my favorite so far. Also like the stabilizers in this way better than some of the other kinds i have. I'm just about finished cleaning this board up & can post pics later if anyone's interested.
Others i have...
Apple Adjustable - Love the form factor on this one. (SKFS White tactile) They are different, for sure. more tactile than orange or a MX brown and definitely take some getting used to the feel of them. These are probably one of the ones that fall into the love/hate category. Either you love them or you can't stand them.
Macally MK96 - Think this was the 2nd mechanical i bought. Was super cheap. Clicky simplified white alps clones i believe. While i liked the slightly condensed form factor i couldn't get past the feel & sound of the switches.
Anyway, that's my experience so far.
Post by: waldorf120 on Sat, 27 May 2017, 22:14:01
(http://i.imgur.com/42xpUPN.jpg)
The board came packaged with ZEN-ith's "Easy PC" computer in the late 80s. Love that logo. Connector appears to be of the 5 pin DIN variety. Since this board was only designed to work with the Easy PC I have no idea if it has any standard like XT or AT. Layout appears to be the same as the Zenith Z-150.
(http://i.imgur.com/eKuRdWP.jpg)
Certainly looks like SKCL Green Alps, has the tabs, slits, and everything. The keycaps are nice thick double shot ABS. The feel of the switches is exquisite, like pressing a keycap through butter, again borrowing from Chyros.
(http://i.imgur.com/vB3zDUz.jpg)
It comes with a solid metal backplate and a thick, textured top plate. The build construction is very solid. It also has two flip out feet which are activated by pressing tabs at the back of the keyboard.
(http://i.imgur.com/BL7c1Gs.jpg)
The label sticker is rather cheap looking, and identifies the board as a "ZKB-5".
(http://i.imgur.com/Xcf3JWT.jpg)
Another interesting thing is there are no homing bars, not even deep dishes. Zenith apparently didn't anticipate touch typists using their computers.
(http://i.imgur.com/g6a4B0i.jpg)
The lock switches are also SKCL greens and have double shot housings for the window, with some other process to produce the black lettering.
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 28 May 2017, 01:40:16
Post by: chyros on Sun, 28 May 2017, 04:16:33
Post by: menuhin on Sun, 28 May 2017, 06:21:24
that is freakin sweet. I found one with yellow alps recently for almost nothing in a warehouse, but it couldn't be converted after hours of trial and error, so I just desoldered it.
I am still looking for a set of caps for the same Z-150 layout! :D
And next time you may use notation, such as SKCM Brown >*1.1526e+4 TOPRE :p
Do TOPRE boards all have NKRO by the way? I heard it is easy to implement that given the capacitive switch design, but they are not all NKRO.
SKCM Brown >>>>>>>>>>...
TOPRE
Post by: alienman82 on Sun, 28 May 2017, 13:49:45
Post by: jnav on Wed, 31 May 2017, 21:12:59
Post by: waldorf120 on Thu, 08 June 2017, 15:56:23
(http://i.imgur.com/noq8VHh.png)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/rl0FOxdz7CcxO/giphy.gif)
Post by: smithyithy on Thu, 08 June 2017, 17:41:11
Post by: SpectreiiI on Thu, 08 June 2017, 18:13:11
Guys... Today on Signature Plastic's website:I just got into mkbs 3 months ago, and I quickly realized that I was an alps guy. Now, just a month later the keyset that I requested is in production for the first time ever. I feel like I'm walking to school downhill both ways :D.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/noq8VHh.png)Show Image(https://media.giphy.com/media/rl0FOxdz7CcxO/giphy.gif)
I was seriously about to spend $280 on DSA light cycle too.
Post by: directheatedtriode on Fri, 23 June 2017, 15:11:47
I picked up an Apple M0116 with SKCM orange.
The tactility feels surprisingly light compared to my MX blues, I believe these two switches are both in the 50-60g range. These oranges feel like they are more like in the 30g range. Could this be due to wear, ie should I open up the switches give them a clean and try again? I have to say I also really like that the Cherry tactile point isn't right at the very top of the stroke, and you have to depress the keycap slightly before you feel it. The SKCM orange having it at the very top takes some getting used to, but I am liking them quite a bit :thumb:
Second question is I have noticed there is quite a loud spring pinging noise after the key press is released. Not noticeable if done slowly, but on normal typing you can hear it quite prominently, not quite as loud as a buckling spring. I think this sounds like the spring and not the metal backplate. Does this sound normal or is this is another indication that I should give the internals of the switches a once over?
And has anyone that has click modded SKCM orange care to weigh in on what they think?
The home keys being shifted are also driving me crazy so I am thinking about creating a custom board using these switches (and different keycaps with normal home key bumps), it looks like this will be around $200 at the bare minimum?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 June 2017, 21:41:06
(http://i.imgur.com/DlhSmiy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3m3piYU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0xDLIfU.jpg)
Cross-posting with some of my ridiculousness. My favorite keyboard and it likely will always be my favorite because it hits so many buttons. Muh real "endgame" (doesn't mean I'm stopping, haha).
Post by: zombimuncha on Sat, 24 June 2017, 15:50:25
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DlhSmiy.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3m3piYU.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xDLIfU.jpg)
Cross-posting with some of my ridiculousness. My favorite keyboard and it likely will always be my favorite because it hits so many buttons. Muh real "endgame" (doesn't mean I'm stopping, haha).
That's beautiful.
What's the backstory with those 8 (?) almost-matching keycaps? Especially the 2nd tab key!
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 25 June 2017, 16:05:26
Superb!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DlhSmiy.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3m3piYU.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xDLIfU.jpg)
Cross-posting with some of my ridiculousness. My favorite keyboard and it likely will always be my favorite because it hits so many buttons. Muh real "endgame" (doesn't mean I'm stopping, haha).
Yes, I know what you mean about "endgame". Just when I think I've arrived, I move the goalposts myself!
Post by: menuhin on Mon, 26 June 2017, 10:21:42
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DlhSmiy.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3m3piYU.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xDLIfU.jpg)
Cross-posting with some of my ridiculousness. My favorite keyboard and it likely will always be my favorite because it hits so many buttons. Muh real "endgame" (doesn't mean I'm stopping, haha).
I have seen you posting the red one too many times. ;)
But what caps and cases and switches do you have for that Numpad?
Post by: E3E on Mon, 26 June 2017, 13:21:09
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DlhSmiy.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3m3piYU.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/0xDLIfU.jpg)
Cross-posting with some of my ridiculousness. My favorite keyboard and it likely will always be my favorite because it hits so many buttons. Muh real "endgame" (doesn't mean I'm stopping, haha).
I have seen you posting the red one too many times. ;)
But what caps and cases and switches do you have for that Numpad?
I've barely posted it. xP I put on the Japanese Itoh caps and also made a cable for it too now. I also cut down one of my Itoh space bars to 7u to fit on to it. I need to do a build log.
The numpad is the Duck Lightpad. Some guy wanted to trade me a Duck Viper v2 for it, or Hack'd by Geeks. I refused, of course, since it's my Orion's companion and I love it.
All of my main boards aside from my NCR are hot swap modded, so right now it has blue Alps w/ SKCL Brown for LEDs, but it could have whatever of course. The caps are what I call "Chinese PBT caps."
Uniform in profile, meaning no contour sculpt per row, and also Alps made. I've posted them before. No model name on whatever it came from, so quite hard to track down.
Post by: babyfeets on Mon, 26 June 2017, 15:07:46
I also cut down one of my Itoh space bars to 7u to fit on to it. I need to do a build log.
Wowie! No joke let's see your methods because I had no idea. Still one of the nicest builds ever.
I should have something to show for myself but I seem to get waylaid on the way to the garage. I can't get projects finished but I'm great at getting them started! Currently dremeling up plates from a Focus 2001 and a Dell AT101w.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 26 June 2017, 18:35:58
Which you can see here:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/G9FlPcn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GwNybA6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NqL0x84.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eKuAPDK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GwNybA6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NqL0x84.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eKuAPDK.jpg)
With the Itoh, the space bar is around 9.25u. The boards are really rare so doing this mod was stressful, whew. I had some spare US sets, but I wanted to put those on display on the stock boards they came on, so I only had one chance to get this right.
What I do is cut off the side end of the cap and try to cut it to match the curve as closely as possible, then I shorten the bar to the proper length. After that, I attach the end piece and glue it on using a plastic resin glue, and then handle any rough edges, gouges, and such.
As you can see in the details, I accidentally let the dremel's lock nut catch an edge of the bar, and man... that sucked, but I managed to fill that gouge and work it down as well as match the color to the point of it being invisible now. Lucky me.
The last picture shows what you can see of the "scar" from the... operation, haha. Overall, it comes out very clean and very hard to notice. It takes a lot of work versus just making a cut in the middle of the bar, but it pays off since it makes the end result look stock.
Oh, and yeah, there's all the work you have to do UNDER the bar concerning stems and stabilizers, which takes hours in and of itself. It's a very tedious process.
Details:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/Ahw96pd.jpg)
Pretty terminal board, but ridiculous terminal layout, ofc--LK201 clone. Really great dyesub spherical profile caps.
(http://i.imgur.com/ANws80b.jpg)
Cut the end off and shaped it down. Marked the bar to size it down.
(http://i.imgur.com/2FZNKx6.jpg)
Very clean!
(http://i.imgur.com/h8ao7w3.jpg)
Ouch! That gouge hurts to see. Buut I fixed it!
(http://i.imgur.com/rAT6L5u.jpg)
Under the hood work.
(http://i.imgur.com/113rUU9.jpg)
You can just barely see the cut on the left side
Pretty terminal board, but ridiculous terminal layout, ofc--LK201 clone. Really great dyesub spherical profile caps.
(http://i.imgur.com/ANws80b.jpg)
Cut the end off and shaped it down. Marked the bar to size it down.
(http://i.imgur.com/2FZNKx6.jpg)
Very clean!
(http://i.imgur.com/h8ao7w3.jpg)
Ouch! That gouge hurts to see. Buut I fixed it!
(http://i.imgur.com/rAT6L5u.jpg)
Under the hood work.
(http://i.imgur.com/113rUU9.jpg)
You can just barely see the cut on the left side
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 30 June 2017, 18:32:53
The switches are not what I was expecting. I barely feel any tactility. They feel less tactile than MX Browns even. It's not bad per-say but it's not really tactile. It's a very even feeling across the board.
I tried cleaning one switch and bending the leaf a bit. This helped though the smoothness didn't seem to improve.
Not totally devastated, didn't pay much for it and it still sounds amazing.
Any other tips?
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 30 June 2017, 19:42:27
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 30 June 2017, 20:02:47
Perhaps with a bit of dry lube these can be saved.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 01 July 2017, 02:14:21
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 01 July 2017, 03:46:59
Salmons don't range in tactility, but they do range in condition. Dirty or heavily used ones feel worse. NOS ones are best!I think that something very heavy may have been sitting on top of the keyboard for a long time. The switches don't feel super dirty or heavily used, it's just that there is absolutely zero tactility.
I opened up some more switches and bent the leafs a bit with a tooth pick and the tactility came back.
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 01 July 2017, 07:48:03
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 01 July 2017, 13:53:31
Still think cherry brown is best tactile switch
You are spending too much time on that G80-5000 ;)
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 01 July 2017, 14:10:52
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sat, 01 July 2017, 18:31:07
Still think cherry brown is best tactile switch
You are spending too much time on that G80-5000 ;)
While his MX5000 does feel nice SKCM Brown = best tactile switch.
SKCM Greens are way overrated
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 01 July 2017, 19:21:47
Post by: klennkellon on Sat, 01 July 2017, 23:01:36
Im thinking about just linear modding the whole thing.
Post by: teraflame on Sun, 02 July 2017, 12:21:21
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 02 July 2017, 15:36:40
Is there a way to convert matias click switches to like matias quiet click? I just don't care for clickiness anymore.No. Unless you remove the click leaf and make them linear.
Or buy some Matias QC's and swap the leafs.
Post by: joeym on Mon, 03 July 2017, 06:37:41
Try modding those dampened whites!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qoypsXp.jpg)
just got another alps board in
After typing on it for a couple of minutes, I can definitively conclude that dampened whites aren't for me.
My switch preference from what I've tried so far is now SKCL Greens > SKCM White Damped > TaiHao Aruz
Matias Click leaves inside dampened cream/white feel outstanding.
instead of matias click leaves, have you tried folding over the top tab to make the cream alps clicky? It feels and sounds nice and the weight decreases a tiny bit.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79539.0
Post by: waldorf120 on Mon, 03 July 2017, 10:48:35
(http://i.imgur.com/xLMW49m.jpg)
Imgur Build Log (http://imgur.com/a/Os3Y2)
Post by: chyros on Mon, 03 July 2017, 11:07:43
Post by: directheatedtriode on Fri, 07 July 2017, 21:39:42
Post by: ShawnMeg on Fri, 07 July 2017, 22:15:09
My DD for the past year and a half has been a modern MX Blue then for about a month SKCM orange that I have click modified, I absolutely loved this board (already listed MX for sale!) but was making many typos since the M0116 moved the home keys to D and K :'( I found there was no acclimatization needed going from MX blue to SKCM oj. Got the bug and bought an SKCM blue, anyone know if I'll need to be lifting finger dumbells to get used to the weight? I type around 4-6 pages of notes per day, with 20-30 minute breaks.
That is one issue that I hate about the Apple keyboard homing dots. I just swapped the D&F and J&K keys so that the homing dots were under my index fingers.
Post by: chyros on Sat, 08 July 2017, 02:14:07
My DD for the past year and a half has been a modern MX Blue then for about a month SKCM orange that I have click modified, I absolutely loved this board (already listed MX for sale!) but was making many typos since the M0116 moved the home keys to D and K :'( I found there was no acclimatization needed going from MX blue to SKCM oj. Got the bug and bought an SKCM blue, anyone know if I'll need to be lifting finger dumbells to get used to the weight? I type around 4-6 pages of notes per day, with 20-30 minute breaks.Nah, SKCM blue isn't that stiff. If worst comes to worst, you can swap the springs with the orange ones I guess.
Post by: waldorf120 on Wed, 12 July 2017, 09:37:29
Nice, the caps fit the pad pretty well :) .
Thanks Chyros!
I've got another build log, this time for a Clueboard. This one involved even more trials and tribulations, but I'm happy with the end result. Enjoy!
Alps Clueboard (http://imgur.com/a/nKv8T)
(http://i.imgur.com/YgRA49B.jpg)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 July 2017, 16:02:05
<3 <3 <3
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 14 July 2017, 17:58:09
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3yrnQFO.jpg)
<3 <3 <3
I need to know more about those keycaps
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 14 July 2017, 18:07:37
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 July 2017, 19:20:09
Well, they are Tai Hao FAME Cherry profile keycaps. Just think OG Doubleshots with alps stems. Same thickness and everything. I think they are the absolute best alps keycaps ever, however they are VERY rare. The Esc is a GMK cap with the stem swapped. Also, the pipe, enter, and rshift are OG cherry caps stem swapped. you can tell by the different color :mad:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/3yrnQFO.jpg)
<3 <3 <3
I need to know more about those keycaps
Post by: E3E on Fri, 14 July 2017, 20:58:13
Also, the pipe, enter, and rshift are OG cherry caps stem swapped. you can tell by the different color :mad:
Courtesy of E3E. ;)
Post by: mike52787 on Fri, 14 July 2017, 21:47:29
love you dude no homoAlso, the pipe, enter, and rshift are OG cherry caps stem swapped. you can tell by the different color :mad:
Courtesy of E3E. ;)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 14 July 2017, 22:52:49
love you dude no homoAlso, the pipe, enter, and rshift are OG cherry caps stem swapped. you can tell by the different color :mad:
Courtesy of E3E. ;)
:-*
Post by: monteyalps on Mon, 17 July 2017, 21:40:54
That is all.
The board if anyone is interested:
More
(https://i.imgur.com/uFHTSAZ.jpg)
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 18 July 2017, 03:46:44
Nice, the caps fit the pad pretty well :) .
Thanks Chyros!
I've got another build log, this time for a Clueboard. This one involved even more trials and tribulations, but I'm happy with the end result. Enjoy!
Alps Clueboard (http://imgur.com/a/nKv8T)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/YgRA49B.jpg)
This board has the case + keycap color combination that I want to build for a 60%!
Hey guys. Today I received my M0116 and discovered it has Salmon Alps.salmons seem to range in tactility, but I've tried newish ones and they were good. still think cherry brown is best tactile switch
The switches are not what I was expecting. I barely feel any tactility. They feel less tactile than MX Browns even. It's not bad per-say but it's not really tactile. It's a very even feeling across the board.
I tried cleaning one switch and bending the leaf a bit. This helped though the smoothness didn't seem to improve.
Not totally devastated, didn't pay much for it and it still sounds amazing.
Any other tips?
Trolling on the Alps thread with your vintage cherry browns G80-5000...? xD
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 18 July 2017, 06:52:40
Post by: ander on Thu, 20 July 2017, 23:48:52
Post by: SpriteMite on Fri, 21 July 2017, 02:52:12
Is there a way to convert matias click switches to like matias quiet click? I just don't care for clickiness anymore.I saw somewhere that you can use double-sided tape on the click leaves to immobilize them, essentially making them tactile. They won't have the dampened sliders, though.
Post by: teraflame on Sun, 23 July 2017, 00:53:43
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 23 July 2017, 07:03:16
Where do I buy quality alps stabilizers? These matias ones (https://matias.store/products/stabilizer-and-hook-set) are absolute crap. The stabs are loose, they dont hold the metal well at all. And what to do about the spacebar?
The ones I got were great tbh.
For the spacebar you have two options, either bend your own wires or asking them to send you some of these:
(http://puu.sh/wQUWv/7b9ff362cb.png)
Post by: teraflame on Sat, 29 July 2017, 22:25:49
Post by: E3E on Sun, 30 July 2017, 14:32:34
Is it possible to mod costar stabs to fit into alps plate cutouts?
It's more feasible to modify traditional alps inserts that fit into the caps to work with cruciform mounts rather than modifying costar stabs. Costar will give you limited travel in my experience.
What you want to do is shave the sides of the stab inserts so they can fit the more narrow slot along the Y axis. You will more than likely have to bend your own wire for this. Paperclips will work, but you can also buy 1mm piano wire for the job.
Post by: Mattr567 on Thu, 03 August 2017, 18:21:05
(http://i.imgur.com/igJFK1v.jpg)
Post by: smithyithy on Mon, 14 August 2017, 11:49:51
The right shift still isn't perfect as it's using a DIY stab wire, but I do plan to make another one neater and better fitting.
I love this board, the V60 might not be the best board around and the switches are Alps clones, but I've put a fair amount into this and it's just a joy to use..
(http://i.imgur.com/cwTBRZ0.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/KyIXY6G.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/tSElWCb.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/PbV7loe.jpg?1)
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 16 August 2017, 17:41:51
I've never really been a fan of tactile switches before these, but something about the way that the bump "pops" feels very pleasing.
I want to try some SKCM Browns or SKCM Greens next, but seeing as they're the more expensive tactile switch I think it'll be a while.
Post by: smithyithy on Thu, 17 August 2017, 15:46:21
Been messing around with a few SKCM Cream Damped I have loose.. I'd click modded one of them, which feels quite nice, so I decided to swap in the click leaf from a Matias switch - it's a tad shorter than the Alps leaf, but fit together without issue. Feel-wise, it's practically the same, maybe slightly smoother as the Matias switch is brand new. But the sound is a subtle improvement, the click is slightly higher pitched and crisper.
I'd record a sound comparison but I feel without a decent mic / camera, any difference would be indistinguishable. A nice modification, though.
Post by: Mattr567 on Sun, 20 August 2017, 22:33:14
http://www.ebay.com/itm/382194402155
Post by: smithyithy on Mon, 21 August 2017, 05:27:55
Post by: smithyithy on Mon, 21 August 2017, 09:27:14
He may split if he can get a buyer for either half.. wondering if anyone here is looking for just the base set?
Link to advert: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/6v0dde/ustx_h_kk_r1_mod_set_hyperfuse_hhkb_ii_black_deep/
Post by: The_Boom_Boy on Wed, 23 August 2017, 08:41:22
Post by: Mattr567 on Wed, 30 August 2017, 00:38:17
(http://i.imgur.com/XannpHJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QDdFFnY.jpg)
Post by: airs on Fri, 22 September 2017, 14:02:53
https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycaps-white-with-black-printing
Any other suggestions that won't cost an arm and a leg?
Post by: PerniciousPony on Sat, 23 September 2017, 02:03:19
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 23 September 2017, 08:47:47
Looking for a set of caps for a TKL WKL Alps board (LZ CLS). Would this Matias set work?
https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycaps-white-with-black-printing
Any other suggestions that won't cost an arm and a leg?
I always liked the look of dye-sub Wang 725 keycaps on Kingsavers. Miles better than what Matias has available (right now). They can be a bit hard to find at a good price. Bobs Northgate Repair (http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/) has some NiB. There are also SGI granite dye-sub sets if you can live with the italic legends.
Post by: airs on Tue, 26 September 2017, 19:10:46
Looking for a set of caps for a TKL WKL Alps board (LZ CLS). Would this Matias set work?
https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycaps-white-with-black-printing
Any other suggestions that won't cost an arm and a leg?
I always liked the look of dye-sub Wang 725 keycaps on Kingsavers. Miles better than what Matias has available (right now). They can be a bit hard to find at a good price. Bobs Northgate Repair (http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/) has some NiB. There are also SGI granite dye-sub sets if you can live with the italic legends.
Thanks Mandrew. One more question - my plate has a stepped caps lock (LZ CLS), but my PCB allows for both types (Leeku Alphas L3). I'm thinking of widening the hole in the plate for caps lock to accomodate a non-stepped caps lock keycap. Seems relatively simple to do with a dremel. Am I oversimplifying things?
Post by: OfTheWild on Tue, 26 September 2017, 19:41:30
Looking for a set of caps for a TKL WKL Alps board (LZ CLS). Would this Matias set work?
https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycaps-white-with-black-printing
Any other suggestions that won't cost an arm and a leg?
I always liked the look of dye-sub Wang 725 keycaps on Kingsavers. Miles better than what Matias has available (right now). They can be a bit hard to find at a good price. Bobs Northgate Repair (http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/) has some NiB. There are also SGI granite dye-sub sets if you can live with the italic legends.
Thanks Mandrew. One more question - my plate has a stepped caps lock (LZ CLS), but my PCB allows for both types (Leeku Alphas L3). I'm thinking of widening the hole in the plate for caps lock to accomodate a non-stepped caps lock keycap. Seems relatively simple to do with a dremel. Am I oversimplifying things?
I dunno if theres room really because the LED hole i think that is? I mean I suppose you could just start carving away at the plate... seems extreme to me for something this pretty.
(https://i.imgur.com/xFXqeMD.jpg)
Speaking of caps locks though... how does the locking cap work? does it actually hold down a key - so like I should be setting it as a left shift? or does the switch actuate and release but physically stays down
Post by: airs on Wed, 27 September 2017, 16:48:53
I dunno if theres room really because the LED hole i think that is? I mean I suppose you could just start carving away at the plate... seems extreme to me for something this pretty.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xFXqeMD.jpg)
Speaking of caps locks though... how does the locking cap work? does it actually hold down a key - so like I should be setting it as a left shift? or does the switch actuate and release but physically stays down
Locking cap works by actually holding down a key.
Here's where I'm at with my set:
(https://i.imgur.com/Qg2uaCQ.jpg)
It's a combination of keycaps from an IBM 5140 and a Focus FK-2001. I'm pretty happy with it - the thick dyesubs from the 5140 are nice! It would be great to get some proper keycaps for Enter, Caps Lock, and \ | though.
What are my options for these keys? Do I need to buy an AT101 or something? Any other ways to do it that would be a good match for the keycaps I already have?
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 27 September 2017, 22:53:36
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 28 September 2017, 09:43:49
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 28 September 2017, 10:43:06
(https://i.imgur.com/cm5zEK3.jpg)
Post by: alienman82 on Thu, 28 September 2017, 12:29:15
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 28 September 2017, 12:36:30
I don't mind mixed sets on alps builds, I could've done a better job matching here but I really wanted to use my Wang alphas.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/cm5zEK3.jpg)
haha nice esc key. I remember you told me you liked that.
I love the 2u esc enough that I don't want to switch this board to split backspace, I need somewhere to use it while I work on modding the Chicony it came on.
Post by: E3E on Thu, 28 September 2017, 20:43:21
I think I might've posted this before.
(https://i.imgur.com/GOt6P4m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vJRqHhk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bg30Tms.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IDJGxKv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4Fw2oSl.jpg)
Here is the rundown:
Case - FJELL Round 1 #35
Plate - 1.62mm Brass Plate, custom cut
PCB - Duck Eagle v1 PCB, holtite modded for hot swapping
Switches - Alps SKCL Cream, the majority of which are LED versions that came from a Seiko-made SGI Button Box
Caps - IBM Multistation Sphericals x2; one set is the Chinese version, one is the Japanese version. The Chinese version has the blue legends. The spacebar is not from these sets.
Despite the SKCL Creams having LED holes and the PCB having backlighting compatibility, I haven't found any colors I like for this build, and the LEDs shine through the fronts of these caps due to the doubleshot molding not extending there.
Overall, it is one of my favorite keyboards. SKCL Creams have such a nice weight, and they go perfectly with these sphericals. The set is very uniformly shined and it feels pretty amazing on these switches. I use this board often.
Post by: loud_asian on Fri, 29 September 2017, 17:17:45
(https://i.imgur.com/MqTAz4l.jpg)
Lucky number 8 :)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 29 September 2017, 19:19:23
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/rbY8wfR.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/MqTAz4l.jpg)
Lucky number 8 :)
Yeah, wish I had one too.
Since I'll never really have anything to put these caps on.
(https://i.imgur.com/lytNnY9.jpg)
Post by: directheatedtriode on Sat, 30 September 2017, 12:11:26
I only have my laptop mic and lousy headset mic so I couldn't make a good recording. The closest I could find was the Kingsaver with SKCM blues, my plastic case sounded very similar.
Post by: E3E on Sat, 30 September 2017, 15:49:22
Has anyone else found that SKCM blue sound radically different when they are in an aftermarket case? I had mine in a plastic TKL case that used to house Chinese clone Alps and the sound was so different I am pretty sure no one would have thought they were SKCM blue if they weren't told. They almost sounded like a Zealiostotle, ie still loud but quite a bit more high pitched and lacking in bass.
I only have my laptop mic and lousy headset mic so I couldn't make a good recording. The closest I could find was the Kingsaver with SKCM blues, my plastic case sounded very similar.
Oh certainly. Alps switches are very synergistic in both feel and sound in regards to the housing they are placed in. So of course, spacious, roomy, plastic cases on old vintage keyboards are typically going to have a much richer sound to them, where metal cases and modern OEM plastic cases with not as much space will be a bit more thin sounding.
Clickies are really the most effected by this, though all of them are to an extent.
Sometimes there are some things you can do. My Mira here did not have a sound I really felt was all that great, but after I added a sheet of memory foam beneath the PCB inside the case, it developed this really nice, thocky sound to it.
Of course, there's nothing you can do about these less spacious modern cases and how that will affect sound.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 08 October 2017, 00:15:17
-Retrobright
-Ultrasonic clean
-Lube
(https://i.imgur.com/PdxRdYE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NUF2gxJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CGwS7nf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cSDGtcx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xosdcPl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D5XP1P0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZeuZnnt.jpg)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 08 October 2017, 15:08:50
The old AT101, especially the old-logo model, is such a classic.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 08 October 2017, 15:23:12
Post by: klennkellon on Sun, 08 October 2017, 18:28:36
https://www.facebook.com/KBParadise/
A linear red one, a clicky blue one (why is blue always clicky) and a brown tactile one.
They are made by Datacomp, who claim to have modded the original Fukka tooling, so I don't have great expectations since Fukkas were pretty crap, but I am excited for the brown switch. There aren't any other tactile Alps being made besides Matias Quiet Clicks which are dampened.
Post by: clickstops on Tue, 10 October 2017, 10:21:40
Does anyone know anything about the retooled MQC? I read a couple anecdotal posts claiming they got their hands on newer Matias switches and they were devoid of wobble, which is great news if it's true.
I posted this on reddit but for those of you not on there;
(https://i.imgur.com/4Hnbsfu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GDpmO9n.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wEgUQP7.jpg)
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 10 October 2017, 13:39:32
Wow, that Fjell is mental. Spherical caps are amazing. Also, E3E, where are you finding super thin memory foam?
Does anyone know anything about the retooled MQC? I read a couple anecdotal posts claiming they got their hands on newer Matias switches and they were devoid of wobble, which is great news if it's true.
I posted this on reddit but for those of you not on there;Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/4Hnbsfu.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GDpmO9n.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/wEgUQP7.jpg)
This case has a really classy design - not outrageously "futuristic" not too old school, and you can see that the design of almost every part of it has been thought about, unlike a few "minimalist" block-based designs.
Post by: jnav on Fri, 13 October 2017, 00:22:23
Post by: E3E on Fri, 13 October 2017, 06:15:22
Wow, that Fjell is mental. Spherical caps are amazing. Also, E3E, where are you finding super thin memory foam?
Does anyone know anything about the retooled MQC? I read a couple anecdotal posts claiming they got their hands on newer Matias switches and they were devoid of wobble, which is great news if it's true.
I posted this on reddit but for those of you not on there;Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/4Hnbsfu.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GDpmO9n.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/wEgUQP7.jpg)
Thanks man! Sphericals are my jam these days. I still love typical cylindrical profiles, but sphericals are always fantastic to use and just admire. :D I actually had the memory foam from a package I received a while back. I'm not sure where you can buy any that thin. I think GON offers thin memory foam at his shop, but I don't know how reliable he is.
Also, nice nab with that AEK64 SS case! I wish I would've known about it! I actually found out when it was too late, haha. Of course it was BUILT for the AEK profile, so it looks fantastic with those caps.
I've got a nice set of Hebrew sublegend AEK profile caps with Icon modifiers too, alas. :P Looks great though!
Post by: loud_asian on Fri, 13 October 2017, 15:32:05
All the a stock cases are gone, but there's some b/c stock leftover https://clueboard.co/dentsanddings/aek64-b-stock-and-c-stock
Post by: E3E on Fri, 13 October 2017, 15:53:35
Post by: kmba on Fri, 13 October 2017, 23:00:38
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 October 2017, 04:10:45
(https://i.imgur.com/lytNnY9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4AzRsix.jpg)
Temporarily put them on the FJELL just for fun, but I prefer the sphericals on it.
Post by: sth on Thu, 19 October 2017, 03:40:40
Post by: kmba on Thu, 19 October 2017, 06:42:07
Post by: PerniciousPony on Sun, 22 October 2017, 19:06:50
Finally got around to resolving issues I was having with the spacebar stab on this board, and now it's finally up and running(other than the five key which has developed some chattering issues. It's an easy fix that I'll eventually get around to. The board has a Copper alloy110 plate (https://i.imgur.com/lownqDc.jpg) which is 99.9% pure copper(the .1% is oxidization). The copper is a bit softer than brass and makes the board feel/sound pretty unique. I applied a forced heat patina (https://media.giphy.com/media/EEwslp78oxjVK/giphy.gif) which gives it a pretty unique look, although it isn't really noticeable in daily use. I left the plate raw and unsealed so that the patina changes over time. I should have a sound test of the board soon.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 23 October 2017, 00:48:23
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Mon, 23 October 2017, 09:17:33
That's Alps? Oo
Thats definitely ALPS!
Where does one get black on black dyesubs? They look almost like Focus caps that have been dyed black or something.
That blank is lookin' purdy :-*
Post by: E3E on Mon, 23 October 2017, 09:52:45
That's Alps? Oo
Thats definitely ALPS!
Where does one get black on black dyesubs? They look almost like Focus caps that have been dyed black or something.
That blank is lookin' purdy :-*
They were dyed Dell AT101 caps that I sold to Pony. :)
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Mon, 23 October 2017, 10:06:22
They were dyed Dell AT101 caps that I sold to Pony. :)
Oh nice! I really like how that looks. Black and gold go really well together
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 23 October 2017, 10:29:27
I'm thinking a 60% + Fjell. Obviously I need to get my hands on a fjell, but then comes the caps....
Also, do I dare fold the leaf and make some ghetto-blues?
Post by: aznreaper on Mon, 23 October 2017, 11:13:06
Post by: graefeln on Mon, 23 October 2017, 11:48:51
Hey I just bought one of the aluminum AEK's from Clueboard and I was looking for some of the AEK caps with the japanese sublegends. Anyone able to give me a hand on where my best bet would be to find a set?
I'd hit up a proxy and bid on the Japanese Yahoo auctions personally. Last set I saw sold on reddit went for 130$; even with the international shipping and proxy fees, you'd probably be looking at 80 - 100$ that way. I have an AEK on the way that I did that with - ran me 92$.
Post by: jnav on Mon, 23 October 2017, 12:19:49
Post by: smithyithy on Mon, 23 October 2017, 13:18:49
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 23 October 2017, 13:47:21
Hey I just bought one of the aluminum AEK's from Clueboard and I was looking for some of the AEK caps with the japanese sublegends. Anyone able to give me a hand on where my best bet would be to find a set?
I'd hit up a proxy and bid on the Japanese Yahoo auctions personally. Last set I saw sold on reddit went for 130$; even with the international shipping and proxy fees, you'd probably be looking at 80 - 100$ that way. I have an AEK on the way that I did that with - ran me 92$.
Is yahoo.jp the most active auction? Is ebay an option for this one?
Post by: graefeln on Mon, 23 October 2017, 14:04:40
Hey I just bought one of the aluminum AEK's from Clueboard and I was looking for some of the AEK caps with the japanese sublegends. Anyone able to give me a hand on where my best bet would be to find a set?
I'd hit up a proxy and bid on the Japanese Yahoo auctions personally. Last set I saw sold on reddit went for 130$; even with the international shipping and proxy fees, you'd probably be looking at 80 - 100$ that way. I have an AEK on the way that I did that with - ran me 92$.
Is yahoo.jp the most active auction? Is ebay an option for this one?
Yahoo seems to be quite active; I haven't heard many people talk about eBay, but that could be because eBay is easier to sell on internationally? I didn't really look into it extensively, nor did I look extensively into which proxy I used (j-subculture) - I am sure there are better/cheaper, but this one worked just fine for me. I put down a deposit to cover the auction, won (buy-it-now), paid, took a few days to get to them, paid a bit more for that shipping (CoD), requested a shipping quote to me, paid some more (went with EMS shipping, but there is cheaper), and got it shipped.
Post by: badziew on Mon, 23 October 2017, 19:20:29
Post by: aznreaper on Mon, 23 October 2017, 20:59:38
Hey I just bought one of the aluminum AEK's from Clueboard and I was looking for some of the AEK caps with the japanese sublegends. Anyone able to give me a hand on where my best bet would be to find a set?
I'd hit up a proxy and bid on the Japanese Yahoo auctions personally. Last set I saw sold on reddit went for 130$; even with the international shipping and proxy fees, you'd probably be looking at 80 - 100$ that way. I have an AEK on the way that I did that with - ran me 92$.
Is yahoo.jp the most active auction? Is ebay an option for this one?
Yahoo seems to be quite active; I haven't heard many people talk about eBay, but that could be because eBay is easier to sell on internationally? I didn't really look into it extensively, nor did I look extensively into which proxy I used (j-subculture) - I am sure there are better/cheaper, but this one worked just fine for me. I put down a deposit to cover the auction, won (buy-it-now), paid, took a few days to get to them, paid a bit more for that shipping (CoD), requested a shipping quote to me, paid some more (went with EMS shipping, but there is cheaper), and got it shipped.
Interesting, so j subculture was the proxy you used? Do you have to provide a link for the auction for them then? What did you search for on Yahoo auction?
Post by: graefeln on Mon, 23 October 2017, 21:24:43
Hey I just bought one of the aluminum AEK's from Clueboard and I was looking for some of the AEK caps with the japanese sublegends. Anyone able to give me a hand on where my best bet would be to find a set?
I'd hit up a proxy and bid on the Japanese Yahoo auctions personally. Last set I saw sold on reddit went for 130$; even with the international shipping and proxy fees, you'd probably be looking at 80 - 100$ that way. I have an AEK on the way that I did that with - ran me 92$.
Is yahoo.jp the most active auction? Is ebay an option for this one?
Yahoo seems to be quite active; I haven't heard many people talk about eBay, but that could be because eBay is easier to sell on internationally? I didn't really look into it extensively, nor did I look extensively into which proxy I used (j-subculture) - I am sure there are better/cheaper, but this one worked just fine for me. I put down a deposit to cover the auction, won (buy-it-now), paid, took a few days to get to them, paid a bit more for that shipping (CoD), requested a shipping quote to me, paid some more (went with EMS shipping, but there is cheaper), and got it shipped.
Interesting, so j subculture was the proxy you used? Do you have to provide a link for the auction for them then? What did you search for on Yahoo auction?
For j-subculture, to search the auctions (and use the proxy), you have to use the search on their site - I just searched for "Apple Extended Keyboard."
You can try this link, but no guarantees it will work. (http://auction.j-subculture.com/yahoo_auctions/search?vo=&ve=&auccat=&aucminprice=&aucmaxprice=&aucmin_bidorbuy_price=&aucmax_bidorbuy_price=&loc_cd=0&abatch=&istatus=0&filtered=1&ei=UTF-8&tab_ex=commerce&buynow=&thumb=&transMode=0&keyword=Apple+Extended+Keyboard&searchDammySelectBox=1&category_id=0&serch_lang_mode=1&price_type=currentprice&min=&max=&select=01)
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 24 October 2017, 13:39:09
I expect M-tek K108 to appear on Wednesday, according to seller it has white complicated Alps. I'm looking forward to doing some appreciation myself :)
Nice man! It probably has the four-tab ALPS clone below but it should be a good alps experience nonetheless! Clicky ALPS are a lot of fun:)
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 24 October 2017, 16:44:29
Post by: aznreaper on Tue, 24 October 2017, 19:56:27
Post by: alienman82 on Tue, 24 October 2017, 20:04:25
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 25 October 2017, 22:04:12
Post by: graefeln on Wed, 25 October 2017, 22:06:24
What proxy did you all go through? Most I have looked up have 0 results for 'AEK' or 'Apple AEK' searches. Maybe I'm just going about it wrong?
I posted a link earlier, but try searching for "Apple Extended Keyboard" and not an abbreviation. Usually when I look there are at least a couple auctions up.
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 25 October 2017, 22:11:05
Post by: Damonskv on Thu, 26 October 2017, 08:59:59
What proxy did you all go through? Most I have looked up have 0 results for 'AEK' or 'Apple AEK' searches. Maybe I'm just going about it wrong?Try Apple Extended Keyboard, and proxy buyee.jp
edit: Sorry, tapatalk worked strange, not showing latest posts
Post by: E3E on Mon, 30 October 2017, 11:20:06
This board never fails to make me happy. ^-^
I've since used SGI caps (over Acer 6011) to fill out some of the mods that the spherical set does not provide for, and I also stem swapped an NMB space bar in place of the trimmed space bar from the original C.Itoh keyset.
The NMB space bar is PBT, and weird as it is, it actually really fits the C.Itoh profile incredibly well. I was just looking at a space invader board one day and noticed how similar the curve and corners were on the bar.
So, I took it upon myself to do a stem swap and put the bar onto my Mira so I could have a full PBT set free from yellowing. It's great. :D
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 30 October 2017, 14:22:28
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/zGvS7KZ.jpg)
This board never fails to make me happy. ^-^
I've since used SGI caps (over Acer 6011) to fill out some of the mods that the spherical set does not provide for, and I also stem swapped an NMB space bar in place of the trimmed space bar from the original C.Itoh keyset.
The NMB space bar is PBT, and weird as it is, it actually really fits the C.Itoh profile incredibly well. I was just looking at a space invader board one day and noticed how similar the curve and corners were on the bar.
So, I took it upon myself to do a stem swap and put the bar onto my Mira so I could have a full PBT set free from yellowing. It's great. :D
That's a beautiful case! I'm really itching to build another alps board, and I'm leaning towards TKL. Just need to find a pcb/aluminum case combo. Any suggestions?
Post by: loud_asian on Mon, 30 October 2017, 14:39:10
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/zGvS7KZ.jpg)
This board never fails to make me happy. ^-^
I've since used SGI caps (over Acer 6011) to fill out some of the mods that the spherical set does not provide for, and I also stem swapped an NMB space bar in place of the trimmed space bar from the original C.Itoh keyset.
The NMB space bar is PBT, and weird as it is, it actually really fits the C.Itoh profile incredibly well. I was just looking at a space invader board one day and noticed how similar the curve and corners were on the bar.
So, I took it upon myself to do a stem swap and put the bar onto my Mira so I could have a full PBT set free from yellowing. It's great. :D
That's a beautiful case! I'm really itching to build another alps board, and I'm leaning towards TKL. Just need to find a pcb/aluminum case combo. Any suggestions?
ninjadoc is planning on getting alps plates made for the Mira gb going on right now. I don't think he's gonna be providing pcbs but you can source those from kin or leeku
Post by: smithyithy on Mon, 30 October 2017, 16:23:36
Alps64 PCB, SKCM Orange Alps (stripped, ultrasonic cleaned and dry-lubed; 70cN springs, 85cN space), stainless steel AEK plate, high profile alu case w/ stainless weight and sound dampening, AEK caps (ultrasonic cleaned) and stabs.
(https://i.imgur.com/vtLw4Ta.jpg)
Build album: https://imgur.com/a/9wR77
It types sooo nice :cool:
Post by: E3E on Mon, 30 October 2017, 16:58:16
That's a beautiful case! I'm really itching to build another alps board, and I'm leaning towards TKL. Just need to find a pcb/aluminum case combo. Any suggestions?
You could always take a look at the Time TKL made by senter of Fox Lab. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91625.0
Its PCB comes with native Alps support, along with MX support, and you won't have to wait decades for it (his Fox TKL was one of the quickest custom GBs out there). :)
You could even make a backlit build since the PCB has dual support, if you were inclined to go through all the effort needed for that using SKCL housings that is. Matias would be simpler.
No reason to go for the Mira when this will knock everything out in one go and be much quicker.
Post by: kmba on Mon, 30 October 2017, 21:57:13
Built the first of my Alps64 boards: AEK60.
Alps64 PCB, SKCM Orange Alps (stripped, ultrasonic cleaned and dry-lubed; 70cN springs, 85cN space), stainless steel AEK plate, high profile alu case w/ stainless weight and sound dampening, AEK caps (ultrasonic cleaned) and stabs.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vtLw4Ta.jpg)
Build album: https://imgur.com/a/9wR77
It types sooo nice :cool:
What are the springs from
Post by: E3E on Mon, 30 October 2017, 22:13:31
Built the first of my Alps64 boards: AEK60.
Alps64 PCB, SKCM Orange Alps (stripped, ultrasonic cleaned and dry-lubed; 70cN springs, 85cN space), stainless steel AEK plate, high profile alu case w/ stainless weight and sound dampening, AEK caps (ultrasonic cleaned) and stabs.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vtLw4Ta.jpg)
Build album: https://imgur.com/a/9wR77
It types sooo nice :cool:
What are the springs from
Sprit sells aftermarket springs
Post by: poi_themachine on Mon, 30 October 2017, 22:37:51
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Post by: E3E on Mon, 30 October 2017, 23:35:22
Can someone help me with the font used in these keyboards?
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
What keyboards?
Most use helvetica. I think the SGI uses an oblique futura font. AEK/Apple boards use Univers 57.
Post by: poi_themachine on Tue, 31 October 2017, 00:44:51
Wanted to know the apple ones. Thank you.Can someone help me with the font used in these keyboards?
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
What keyboards?
Most use helvetica. I think the SGI uses an oblique futura font. AEK/Apple boards use Univers 57.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Post by: E3E on Tue, 31 October 2017, 01:05:00
]Wanted to know the apple ones. Thank you.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
No problem :thumb:
Post by: smithyithy on Tue, 31 October 2017, 07:26:57
What are the springs from
Sprit sells aftermarket springs
Yep, Sprit Springs. There was a little groupbuy on the MK-UK Discord where someone ordered a bunch of parts from Sprit, so I grabbed some Alps springs.
I think you can order from his site here: https://spritdesign.wixsite.com/sprit/products
On about the fonts - I love the AEK caps and font, they look so nice IMO
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 06 November 2017, 19:58:52
(https://i.imgur.com/6GYRwEh.jpg)
Post by: dante on Tue, 07 November 2017, 07:39:47
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7b82w5/alps_to_mx_adapter_is_working/
This isn't the same adapter that has been floating around Deskthority. This is more like a replacement stem that sits inside the switch.
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 07 November 2017, 08:39:18
Have any of you been following dotdash32 on r/mk? Check this out:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7b82w5/alps_to_mx_adapter_is_working/
This isn't the same adapter that has been floating around Deskthority. This is more like a replacement stem that sits inside the switch.
I really wonder how much that impacts the feel. I also feel like it ruins the integrity of the switch. If I have some blues, I want to show off the OG blue stem!
Post by: E3E on Tue, 07 November 2017, 12:43:48
Matias switches have looser tolerances so I guess the stem fits fine there.
I'm with you too though _rubik. I'm not a fan of mixing switch families like MX/Alps/Topre together. It does take away some of the charm of it.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 10 November 2017, 21:52:59
[attachimg=1]
Complicated Whites I think? Board is from 1990 so hopefully an earlier iteration of the switch.
Post by: _rubik on Fri, 10 November 2017, 22:35:48
First Alps board on the way soon, just got this guy NIB after being sealed away.
(Attachment Link)
Complicated Whites I think? Board is from 1990 so hopefully an earlier iteration of the switch.
I've seen that concept batted around with modern implementations. Let us know if its fully functional!
Post by: rich1051414 on Sun, 12 November 2017, 20:58:06
I really liked the layout so I was determined to make the board work, so I put my AEK to use which was too large for me to use comfortably, which has orange alps.
This is the result:
[attach=1]
Feels wonderful and the sound is amazing. Probably the best sounding tactile keyboard I own.
However, I did have one snag, which you can probably notice if you look closely at the picture. The original board had yellow colored switches for the top row which had a limited actuation distance. I thought it was stupid, until I tried sticking the small caps on the top row of oranges... I cannot seat the caps fully because the switch can actuate too far. Any suggestions? The best I can come up with is seating the cap with the switch disassembled, but there has to be a better way I am not thinking of...
Still debating moving over the aek's alphanumeric caps, but I think it would look too strange.
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 13 November 2017, 10:25:59
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 13 November 2017, 11:10:41
Post by: E3E on Mon, 13 November 2017, 12:23:35
aren't the top row switches usually something smaller? I'm surprised you were able to fit full size orange alps up there.
On that note, can those keys even fully bottom out? It doesn't look like the caps can clear the housings properly, but I could be wrong.
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Mon, 13 November 2017, 13:04:14
Well, I guess i better like alps. got an SGI granite otw now too :blank: :blank: :blank: :blank:
I've got another SGI on the way as well:) Theres a lot to love. Nice layout, construction, switches, style, caps... The dampening mechanism, feel and sound vs mtsqc was really awesome to me. There is a very noticeable difference between the most and least used of cream damped switches. You're in for some fun between that and the switchboard. NOS/NIB alps things are a treat
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Mon, 13 November 2017, 13:06:13
Well, I guess i better like alps. got an SGI granite otw now too :blank: :blank: :blank: :blank:
I've got another SGI on the way as well:) Theres a lot to love. Nice layout, construction, switches, style, caps... The dampening mechanism, feel and sound vs mtsqc was really awesome to me. There is a very noticeable difference between the most and least used of cream damped switches. You're in for some fun between that and the switchboard. NOS/NIB alps things are a treat
I actually want to swap the granite over to Complicated Blues, but i have no clue if it's possible. Also want to swap the green LEDs to blue. Prolly in my top 5 of best looking KBs, so i wanna make it special.
Post by: waldorf120 on Mon, 13 November 2017, 13:50:33
aren't the top row switches usually something smaller? I'm surprised you were able to fit full size orange alps up there.
On that note, can those keys even fully bottom out? It doesn't look like the caps can clear the housings properly, but I could be wrong.
The top row caps sit on top of the switch, they never clear the housing. Source: I have one of these (Siig Minitouch). That being said, I can't type fast than 40 wpm on this thing without keypresses getting skipped, so it's pretty much useless. My model has the ivory four tab clones.
Post by: waldorf120 on Mon, 13 November 2017, 13:54:22
(https://i.imgur.com/l8wunx0.jpg)
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Mon, 13 November 2017, 14:29:41
Well, I guess i better like alps. got an SGI granite otw now too :blank: :blank: :blank: :blank:
I've got another SGI on the way as well:) Theres a lot to love. Nice layout, construction, switches, style, caps... The dampening mechanism, feel and sound vs mtsqc was really awesome to me. There is a very noticeable difference between the most and least used of cream damped switches. You're in for some fun between that and the switchboard. NOS/NIB alps things are a treat
I actually want to swap the granite over to Complicated Blues, but i have no clue if it's possible. Also want to swap the green LEDs to blue. Prolly in my top 5 of best looking KBs, so i wanna make it special.
Oh, its definitely doable. That sounds really good! I have similar plans but am wanting to try out some linear alps this time around!
Post by: rich1051414 on Tue, 14 November 2017, 02:04:17
aren't the top row switches usually something smaller? I'm surprised you were able to fit full size orange alps up there.The originals were full sized as well.
HOWEVER, there was a problem.
aren't the top row switches usually something smaller? I'm surprised you were able to fit full size orange alps up there.
On that note, can those keys even fully bottom out? It doesn't look like the caps can clear the housings properly, but I could be wrong.
The originals used limited actuation variants, the base of the switch had plastic tabs that prevented the slider from fully actuating. Originally I thought it was a 'stupid' feature because it made the switch throw too short and felt like garbage. However, after swapping them for oranges, I realized why they did it. It is impossible to fully seat the half caps on an original bodied alps because they can actuate too far, and the top of the switch housing prevents you from pushing down the cap far enough. However, with a bit of force and tapping with a screwdriver, I got them to seat well enough :)
The siig minitouch with oranges is actually heaven to type on, but I expected that. What I didn't expect is how they sound. Creamy goodness.
The top row caps sit on top of the switch, they never clear the housing. Source: I have one of these (Siig Minitouch). That being said, I can't type fast than 40 wpm on this thing without keypresses getting skipped, so it's pretty much useless. My model has the ivory four tab clones.I think I hit you up on reddit already. Basically, I think the issue is either the extreme stiffness of the ivory clone switches, or your PS/2 to USB adapter, or perhaps a bit of both. I haven't had such issues since changing them to oranges.
Edit: Oh and I also left the space bar, the escape key, the caps lock key, and the enter key the ivory switch, but I may swap the enter key for orange alps too, because that key isn't stabilized enough and is far too heavy with the original switch installed. I really love the sound of the ivory switch, and it is a shame they are borderline unusable because of the extreme amount of force to begin actuating the keys. At least it serves a good purpose for making the caps lock and escape key accident proof.
Post by: Mahm on Tue, 14 November 2017, 13:57:33
I would prefer an option that doesn't require soldering.
Thanks in advance!
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 14 November 2017, 14:05:42
Post by: Mahm on Tue, 14 November 2017, 14:13:41
Soarer revised his firmware in its last iteration to accommodate the Leading Edge. You have to connect the 5th wire to the "Reset" pin on the Teensy.
So regardless I would have to solder the wire to the teensy? No way to go without soldering eh, even with a Hagstrom converter or something?
Thanks for the quick response!
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 15 November 2017, 09:53:55
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 15 November 2017, 10:19:28
So regardless I would have to solder the wire to the teensy? No way to go without soldering eh, even with a Hagstrom converter or something?
You could ask Orihalcon how he builds his converter cables, he might have that 5th wire connected, I don't know.
The only Hagstrom I ever had was 6-8 years ago, for an IBM XT, and I know that they have changed it since then.
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 15 November 2017, 10:42:05
Do ultrasonic cleaners truly make that much of a difference? If so, will any cheap one work? I'm assuming this isn't a jewelry grade ordeal.
I definitely think they do make a difference. I ordered this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0142G8ONC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and it seems to have worked great.
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 15 November 2017, 11:58:18
I would love to try to clean my futaba ma switches as well as my NEC blue ovals.
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 15 November 2017, 12:57:53
How does one ultrasonically clean switches? Do they need to be disassembled? Could switches that cannot be disassembled be ultrasonically cleaned, perhaps with alcohol added to the solution?
I would love to try to clean my futaba ma switches as well as my NEC blue ovals.
I might not be the best one to answer your question, but yeah you disassemble the switch and place the housing and stem (all the plastic bits in). I don't know of many switches that cant at least have the stem removed.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 15 November 2017, 13:00:06
otherwise super solid, and the switches feel pretty nice.
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 15 November 2017, 14:03:26
I named two.How does one ultrasonically clean switches? Do they need to be disassembled? Could switches that cannot be disassembled be ultrasonically cleaned, perhaps with alcohol added to the solution?
I would love to try to clean my futaba ma switches as well as my NEC blue ovals.
I might not be the best one to answer your question, but yeah you disassemble the switch and place the housing and stem (all the plastic bits in). I don't know of many switches that cant at least have the stem removed.
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 15 November 2017, 15:59:12
How does one ultrasonically clean switches? Do they need to be disassembled? Could switches that cannot be disassembled be ultrasonically cleaned, perhaps with alcohol added to the solution?
I would love to try to clean my futaba ma switches as well as my NEC blue ovals.
How does one do it? Simple.
Disassemble switches into all their constituent components, remove the spring and tactile plate and contact plate, then place the upper housing, lower housing and slider into the cleaner, pour in ultrasonic cleaning fluid and let it do its thing. Some people prefer grouping all the sliders together into one batch and housing components into another batch, really up to you.
Post by: OfTheWild on Wed, 15 November 2017, 20:25:24
I named two.How does one ultrasonically clean switches? Do they need to be disassembled? Could switches that cannot be disassembled be ultrasonically cleaned, perhaps with alcohol added to the solution?
I would love to try to clean my futaba ma switches as well as my NEC blue ovals.
I might not be the best one to answer your question, but yeah you disassemble the switch and place the housing and stem (all the plastic bits in). I don't know of many switches that cant at least have the stem removed.
I would love for someone to put together a definitive thread of info on the whole ultrasonic cleaning aspects and results. Theres a lot of speculation surrounding them and what they can and cannot do to help clean switch components.
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 16 November 2017, 02:56:47
I named two.How does one ultrasonically clean switches? Do they need to be disassembled? Could switches that cannot be disassembled be ultrasonically cleaned, perhaps with alcohol added to the solution?
I would love to try to clean my futaba ma switches as well as my NEC blue ovals.
I might not be the best one to answer your question, but yeah you disassemble the switch and place the housing and stem (all the plastic bits in). I don't know of many switches that cant at least have the stem removed.
I would love for someone to put together a definitive thread of info on the whole ultrasonic cleaning aspects and results. Theres a lot of speculation surrounding them and what they can and cannot do to help clean switch components.
Yeah, same here. The thing is, one doesn't NEED an ultrasonic cleaner to clean switches which can be disassembled, it just makes things easier. However, if ultrasonic cleaners could be used to penetrate and clean permanently sealed switches, that would be a game changer. But alas, I can't find much information on this. I assume if one were to do it, they would need to use a solution that evaporates quickly at room temp. Oh, and not one known to be a plastic solvent either, like acetone :P The problem with NEC blue ovals is the way the switch is designed, things can get in the stem compartment, but then can't get out again, cause they get stuck in the clicker compartment or the switch plate compartment, so evaporation would be the only way to expel the liquid used in ultrasonic cleaning.
The switches would still need desoldering though. (I said shivering) The last one I desoldered(AEK with orange alps) had some kind of pcb coating, and the soldering iron burned the coating which smelled of dead rat. You know the smell if you left a mouse in a mouse trap too long. I smelled that god awful smell the rest of the day xD Hopefully whatever chemical used on that PCB is rare.
Post by: Marvellion on Thu, 16 November 2017, 04:47:06
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 16 November 2017, 06:59:56
Hey everyone, this thread is a superb gem, thanks for it. Owners of a Alps64, which case did you guys use? Pics are very welcome. Also any opinions on how does Alps feel with plastic and wooden cases?I think alps sounds best on a steel plate and in a plastic body. I would guess the same could be said about wooden as well.
Post by: _rubik on Thu, 16 November 2017, 08:52:50
I named two.
I don't know ofmanymany switches that cant at least have the stem removed.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 16 November 2017, 11:53:49
Regarding ALPS SWITCHES, the most important parts to clean are the tops and sliders. This means the bases + switchplates can stay soldered in so just shake the keyboard upside down and blow any dust out with compressed air. If the tops are bamboo (without slits), try to replace them with the pine variant. Some people clean the springs and leaves but I have never seen the need.
Got my granite today, but neither control key works :'(The SGI Bigfoot series has a nice case and keycaps (if you can tolerate the font) but I can't say any of the switch varieties it was fitted with are very redeeming. Good for base for switch swaps though.
otherwise super solid, and the switches feel pretty nice.
Hey everyone, this thread is a superb gem, thanks for it. Owners of a Alps64, which case did you guys use? Pics are very welcome. Also any opinions on how does Alps feel with plastic and wooden cases?
Almost all 60% cases currently offered are tray mount so there isn't going vary too much in terms of feel. The choice of plate and case material is going to change the sound more than anything else.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 16 November 2017, 11:55:21
Got my granite today, but neither control key works :'(The SGI Bigfoot series has a nice case and keycaps (if you can tolerate the font) but I can't say any of the switch varieties it was fitted with are very redeeming. Good for base for switch swaps though.
otherwise super solid, and the switches feel pretty nice.
Yeah, would like to swap the creams out of this one, they are a little mushy.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 17 November 2017, 12:35:58
Lights up and everything, but no response from any keystroke. Tried both IBM modes with the dipswitches with no change.
Will update if i figure something out.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 17 November 2017, 13:40:48
(https://i.imgur.com/n4wHWIb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vHTPvrV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Zddchff.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VjlGJDL.jpg)
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 17 November 2017, 16:34:46
Oh well, i at least got some unboxing pictures, sorry for the spam hahaShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/n4wHWIb.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vHTPvrV.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Zddchff.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/VjlGJDL.jpg)
Did you restart your computer after you plug in the keyboard?
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Fri, 17 November 2017, 16:58:52
Oh well, i at least got some unboxing pictures, sorry for the spam hahaShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/n4wHWIb.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vHTPvrV.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Zddchff.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/VjlGJDL.jpg)
Did you restart your computer after you plug in the keyboard?
Yes, rerstarted after every change in the dip switches.
Post by: nurupism on Wed, 22 November 2017, 10:30:40
Yes, rerstarted after every change in the dip switches.
I recently got a Switchboard myself, one of the NIB models on Ebay that were sold without a cable. I was able to get it to work fine with an ADB cable and Mac mode, so perhaps that is something you could try.
Post by: kultra on Mon, 27 November 2017, 08:03:59
https://www.amazon.it/Lindy-0-15m-AT-interface-adapters/dp/B0000934IC/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1511791197&sr=8-8&keywords=din+ps%2F2 (https://www.amazon.it/Lindy-0-15m-AT-interface-adapters/dp/B0000934IC/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1511791197&sr=8-8&keywords=din+ps%2F2)
Is the adapter defect? Or the keyboard? Any idea on how to fix the key chatter?
Thanks.
Post by: Applet on Mon, 27 November 2017, 09:42:42
(https://i.imgur.com/JtYSkqa.jpg)
alps64 w. click modded oranges (ulrasonic cleaned). Keycaps from AEK1 and M0116. Had to select the best switches from the board, some were very worn out.
Maybe not the prettiest, but it's a fun board. :)
Post by: E3E on Mon, 27 November 2017, 09:57:20
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 27 November 2017, 11:30:23
Looks good! I always want to see people do a little dyeing up with AEK/M0116 caps for a bit more contrast, but it does look nice as is.
I've been wondering about that myself. I'm about to build my second AEK build (this time a 60), and was wondering how I could switch it up a little. I'm curious how a charcoal gray dye would look.
Post by: E3E on Mon, 27 November 2017, 12:04:08
Looks good! I always want to see people do a little dyeing up with AEK/M0116 caps for a bit more contrast, but it does look nice as is.
I've been wondering about that myself. I'm about to build my second AEK build (this time a 60), and was wondering how I could switch it up a little. I'm curious how a charcoal gray dye would look.
That's exactly the same color I was considering. I think it'd look nice as a mod color or for the whole set.
Post by: _rubik on Mon, 27 November 2017, 12:07:27
Looks good! I always want to see people do a little dyeing up with AEK/M0116 caps for a bit more contrast, but it does look nice as is.
I've been wondering about that myself. I'm about to build my second AEK build (this time a 60), and was wondering how I could switch it up a little. I'm curious how a charcoal gray dye would look.
That's exactly the same color I was considering. I think it'd look nice as a mod color or for the whole set.
Or even go with a fun color like purple or turquoise for the mods, and charcoal for the alphas.
I sadly have no dye experience. So I'd have to get my hands on some AEK cap knowing full well I could mess them up.. Has anyone done something similar before?
Post by: tristinDLC on Tue, 28 November 2017, 04:42:44
I'm curious how a charcoal gray dye would look.
Here is a friend's M0110 with charcoal grey caps for a bit of reference to what a little color contrast might look like:
(https://i.imgur.com/18B4RKh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JmYWz5b.jpg)
Post by: clickstops on Tue, 28 November 2017, 15:40:27
Post by: tristinDLC on Tue, 28 November 2017, 15:49:22
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 28 November 2017, 15:54:14
It's super custom with a beta version of a fully programmable Bluetooth PCB and it uses a laser cut acrylic adapter plate to mount the PCB without modifying the case at all.
Ummm... can we get a build thread about this thing? It sounds amazing!
Post by: tristinDLC on Tue, 28 November 2017, 16:06:16
Ummm... can we get a build thread about this thing? It sounds amazing!
Here is an Imgur album with more pictures and a bit of info https://imgur.com/a/KZPgD (https://imgur.com/a/KZPgD) The build is done by a buddy and the programming was a combined effort between him and another guy who initially wrote some BT firmware for some really interesting wireless projects he's developing. Still kinda all a beta project, but he says he really digs using it.
Post by: badziew on Wed, 06 December 2017, 08:44:38
Oh snap, I should have seen this reply sooner.I expect M-tek K108 to appear on Wednesday, according to seller it has white complicated Alps. I'm looking forward to doing some appreciation myself :)
Nice man! It probably has the four-tab ALPS clone below but it should be a good alps experience nonetheless! Clicky ALPS are a lot of fun:)
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1)
It actually has white Alps of the "pine" variety.
https://imgur.com/a/aac43
About a dozen switches had the issue with upstroke click, but gently squeezing the clickleaf and switchplate contacts of each switch did the job.
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Wed, 06 December 2017, 09:37:55
Oh snap, I should have seen this reply sooner.I expect M-tek K108 to appear on Wednesday, according to seller it has white complicated Alps. I'm looking forward to doing some appreciation myself :)
Nice man! It probably has the four-tab ALPS clone below but it should be a good alps experience nonetheless! Clicky ALPS are a lot of fun:)
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1)
It actually has white Alps of the "pine" variety.
https://imgur.com/a/aac43
About a dozen switches had the issue with upstroke click, but gently squeezing the clickleaf and switchplate contacts of each switch did the job.
Dude, nice! The DT wiki for the K108 could maybe use a little updating with this information then! Thats a lovely board!
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 06 December 2017, 15:16:49
Nice man! It probably has the four-tab ALPS clone below but it should be a good alps experience nonetheless! Clicky ALPS are a lot of fun:)I had a siig minitouch with this switch. I hated it so much I had the switches pulled within 24 hours. The switch was unbelievably stiff before actuation began. However, the switch SOUNDS amazing, and the feel is good, but the extreme stiffness was next level, and there was no way I could handle it. Just wanted to put my opinion out there.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1)
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Wed, 06 December 2017, 15:29:50
Nice man! It probably has the four-tab ALPS clone below but it should be a good alps experience nonetheless! Clicky ALPS are a lot of fun:)I had a siig minitouch with this switch. I hated it so much I had the switches pulled within 24 hours. The switch was unbelievably stiff before actuation began. However, the switch SOUNDS amazing, and the feel is good, but the extreme stiffness was next level, and there was no way I could handle it. Just wanted to put my opinion out there.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1)
I can't deal with very stiff switches either. Maybe a "good ALPS experience" wasn't the right way to phrase that. I meant more that, as a clone, it should still be a good example of the function of ALPS and what there is to appreciate about them. I've never actually tried those switches before. Alas, he got the real deal anyway!
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 06 December 2017, 15:42:24
Well, because of that switch, I have a siig minitouch with orange alps now, which is my favorite keyboard. In fact, I like it so much, I have a hard time actually using it, out of fear I will wear out the switches. xDNice man! It probably has the four-tab ALPS clone below but it should be a good alps experience nonetheless! Clicky ALPS are a lot of fun:)I had a siig minitouch with this switch. I hated it so much I had the switches pulled within 24 hours. The switch was unbelievably stiff before actuation began. However, the switch SOUNDS amazing, and the feel is good, but the extreme stiffness was next level, and there was no way I could handle it. Just wanted to put my opinion out there.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_T1)
I can't deal with very stiff switches either. Maybe a "good ALPS experience" wasn't the right way to phrase that. I meant more that, as a clone, it should still be a good example of the function of ALPS and what there is to appreciate about them. I've never actually tried those switches before. Alas, he got the real deal anyway!
Post by: eksuen on Wed, 06 December 2017, 18:07:16
(https://i.imgur.com/5NT9uWD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xwEAzT3.jpg)
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 06 December 2017, 18:11:00
This was sitting in my garage. I was talking to my dad about old keyboards yesterday morning and when I came home, he told me he remembered he still has one very old keyboard. It was his first keyboard that he got with his first PC, which he still has as well. He gave the board to me as an early birthday present.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5NT9uWD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xwEAzT3.jpg)
Whattttt. Now that's a fabulous switch to stumble on. Any plans for it? Keep it as is for harvesting for some big build?
Post by: eksuen on Wed, 06 December 2017, 18:22:03
This was sitting in my garage. I was talking to my dad about old keyboards yesterday morning and when I came home, he told me he remembered he still has one very old keyboard. It was his first keyboard that he got with his first PC, which he still has as well. He gave the board to me as an early birthday present.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5NT9uWD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xwEAzT3.jpg)
Whattttt. Now that's a fabulous switch to stumble on. Any plans for it? Keep it as is for harvesting for some big build?
I need an adapter to see if it work. Regardless of functionality, I will most likely keep it as is since it's in such good condition and it has some family history to it.
I just acquired an AEK layout Alps64 that has Greens modded to be clicky, so I have something to scratch that typing itch when it comes to regular usage.
Post by: Kevadu on Wed, 06 December 2017, 20:02:14
I had a siig minitouch with this switch. I hated it so much I had the switches pulled within 24 hours. The switch was unbelievably stiff before actuation began. However, the switch SOUNDS amazing, and the feel is good, but the extreme stiffness was next level, and there was no way I could handle it. Just wanted to put my opinion out there.
I've got those awful clones in my MiniTouch too. I was really hoping somebody here at some suggestions for what to do with them...unfortunately replacing them with another Alps switch isn't really an option for me since I don't have any others on hand.
The board is basically unusable in its current state. Lost the MiniTouch lottery I guess (I was really hoping for Monterey switches but it was a new in box keyboard so I didn't know what I was getting...).
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 06 December 2017, 22:45:08
You could salvage them with lighter springs, but it is a massive pain, especially since the cut down switch plate on those clone switches like to catch on the housing, ruining them. They are easy to get apart but a nightmare to reassemble. Cherry springs will not work though.I had a siig minitouch with this switch. I hated it so much I had the switches pulled within 24 hours. The switch was unbelievably stiff before actuation began. However, the switch SOUNDS amazing, and the feel is good, but the extreme stiffness was next level, and there was no way I could handle it. Just wanted to put my opinion out there.
I've got those awful clones in my MiniTouch too. I was really hoping somebody here at some suggestions for what to do with them...unfortunately replacing them with another Alps switch isn't really an option for me since I don't have any others on hand.
The board is basically unusable in its current state. Lost the MiniTouch lottery I guess (I was really hoping for Monterey switches but it was a new in box keyboard so I didn't know what I was getting...).
Post by: chyros on Thu, 07 December 2017, 00:28:15
This was sitting in my garage. I was talking to my dad about old keyboards yesterday morning and when I came home, he told me he remembered he still has one very old keyboard. It was his first keyboard that he got with his first PC, which he still has as well. He gave the board to me as an early birthday present.I suppose that's an Ortek OEM product, but I've never heard of that model before Oo . Regardless, that's quite a find, congratulations! :DShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/5NT9uWD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xwEAzT3.jpg)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 07 December 2017, 07:51:10
This was sitting in my garage. I was talking to my dad about old keyboards yesterday morning and when I came home, he told me he remembered he still has one very old keyboard. It was his first keyboard that he got with his first PC, which he still has as well. He gave the board to me as an early birthday present.If you cannot get the keyboard converted and want to keep the keyboard in it's current case, I have a PCB that supports the layout and uses a teensy 2++.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5NT9uWD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xwEAzT3.jpg)
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 07 December 2017, 11:17:40
This was sitting in my garage. I was talking to my dad about old keyboards yesterday morning and when I came home, he told me he remembered he still has one very old keyboard. It was his first keyboard that he got with his first PC, which he still has as well. He gave the board to me as an early birthday present.If you cannot get the keyboard converted and want to keep the keyboard in it's current case, I have a PCB that supports the layout and uses a teensy 2++.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5NT9uWD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xwEAzT3.jpg)
Noted. Thank you. The converter should arrive in a couple days so we'll soon find out.
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 07 December 2017, 20:17:31
I have heard people compare the feel of typing on one as splashing into a pool of water, and I totally understand what they mean by that now, but I can't help but notice the friction. The high tactility that gives way a lot is exactly why I like oranges, but the friction or whatever after that just feels strange. Can that be helped with lube? I thought these switches came factory lubed.
Also some of the switches rattle badly, and are louder than some of my clicky switches. Not very 'quiet'. Even my zealios board is quieter than this one due to tactile leaf clicking.
Edit: The later was due to the switch being cold as I just pulled it from outside. As it has warmed up, the clicking has stopped. I guess the switches were never actuated after assembled and the lube froze. However, there is still a bit of tactile leaf rattle going on, more than my oranges. I will see if that stops with use. However, it could be the sound of the stem slamming into the base that masks the sound of the tactile leaf rattling on orange switches, not too sure about that.
Good switches, better than any cherry tactile switch in feel, even zealios, but no match for oranges, that is for sure. Just trying to figure out if there is something 'off' about my batch of quiet switches, so I don't have a false opinion of them.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 07 December 2017, 23:52:40
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 08 December 2017, 02:16:14
This second bump is normal on Matias switches, it's caused by the metal contacts.Oh I see. That makes sense. I am slowly no longer even noticing it, and I started questioning my initial reaction. It is definitely subtle, but noticeable if you come from a switch that does not have this.
Post by: jnav on Fri, 08 December 2017, 13:56:12
Question, my matias quiet pro showed up today, but there is something weird about the feel, or perhaps I am spoiled by oranges. After the tactile bump, it feels like there is a second smaller build up in pressure, which releases again, and this is consistent across all switches. Is this just friction I am feeling, or is there something different about the new switches.
I have heard people compare the feel of typing on one as splashing into a pool of water, and I totally understand what they mean by that now, but I can't help but notice the friction. The high tactility that gives way a lot is exactly why I like oranges, but the friction or whatever after that just feels strange. Can that be helped with lube? I thought these switches came factory lubed.
Also some of the switches rattle badly, and are louder than some of my clicky switches. Not very 'quiet'. Even my zealios board is quieter than this one due to tactile leaf clicking.
Edit: The later was due to the switch being cold as I just pulled it from outside. As it has warmed up, the clicking has stopped. I guess the switches were never actuated after assembled and the lube froze. However, there is still a bit of tactile leaf rattle going on, more than my oranges. I will see if that stops with use. However, it could be the sound of the stem slamming into the base that masks the sound of the tactile leaf rattling on orange switches, not too sure about that.
Good switches, better than any cherry tactile switch in feel, even zealios, but no match for oranges, that is for sure. Just trying to figure out if there is something 'off' about my batch of quiet switches, so I don't have a false opinion of them.
I can't speak to the older Matias Quiet Click switches because I've never opened one up but I can confirm that the new ones are factory lubed. Also, if you like Alps Orange switches, my recommendation is to remove the rubber "dampeners" from Matias' QC switches. While not as smooth as Alps Oranges (my personal favorites), it remedies that odd rubbery sensation the dampeners create. Also, the quiet clicks are just too quiet IMO.
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 08 December 2017, 17:57:16
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 08 December 2017, 18:22:07
The Matias switches still have some of the clunkiness that all simplified Alps do which might explain that weird "second bump"Clunkiness is a good word. It feels a bit chaotic compared to older alps that I am used to. It is still good, but it feels sloppy in comparison. As I said, it probably is just me spoiled by vintage alps. On older alps, once you overcome the bump, it feels like the bottom falls out and you don't really feel much resistance until you bottom out the slider, but on matias, you can definitely feel extra resistance before the rubber bumper bottoms out, which adds a third type of resistance. This adds up to a press feeling chaotic to me, like you get too many different forms of tactility overlapping sloppily.
This, of course, is simply in comparison. For a modern switch, they are still very nice, and I am not trying to convince anyone to not get them a try. It is just not the same as the old alps.
They also feel more bindy as well, but I forgive it for that. Alps have always been a bit bindy in comparison to cherry, regardless of the manufacturer. I have come to actually kind of like it in a strange way.
Post by: rich1051414 on Tue, 12 December 2017, 00:54:11
The Matias switches still have some of the clunkiness that all simplified Alps do which might explain that weird "second bump"Clunkiness is a good word. It feels a bit chaotic compared to older alps that I am used to. It is still good, but it feels sloppy in comparison. As I said, it probably is just me spoiled by vintage alps. On older alps, once you overcome the bump, it feels like the bottom falls out and you don't really feel much resistance until you bottom out the slider, but on matias, you can definitely feel extra resistance before the rubber bumper bottoms out, which adds a third type of resistance. This adds up to a press feeling chaotic to me, like you get too many different forms of tactility overlapping sloppily.
This, of course, is simply in comparison. For a modern switch, they are still very nice, and I am not trying to convince anyone to not get them a try. It is just not the same as the old alps.
They also feel more bindy as well, but I forgive it for that. Alps have always been a bit bindy in comparison to cherry, regardless of the manufacturer. I have come to actually kind of like it in a strange way.
FYI, I ended up pulling the quiet pro switches, and putting in vintage SKCM white switches(archetypal with slits). Ah... much better.
The quiet pro switches aren't bad, but I feel too much is sacrificed in the name of silence.I assume the tactile pro would be more up my alley, but that was not the switch I chose.
Post by: badziew on Wed, 13 December 2017, 16:10:08
Dude, nice! The DT wiki for the K108 could maybe use a little updating with this information then! Thats a lovely board!It's done. I'll take a top picture of it later and add to the wiki page.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Monterey_K108 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Monterey_K108)
Post by: N6NG on Thu, 28 December 2017, 09:19:59
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
Sorry to dig up such an old post, but does anyone know if these are SKCC or SKCL/SKCM?
Post by: E3E on Thu, 28 December 2017, 09:43:59
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
Sorry to dig up such an old post, but does anyone know if these are SKCC or SKCL/SKCM?
They're SKEW, or Alps integrated domes.
Post by: N6NG on Fri, 29 December 2017, 11:44:23
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
Sorry to dig up such an old post, but does anyone know if these are SKCC or SKCL/SKCM?
They're SKEW, or Alps integrated domes.
Great! Looks like I've finally found a keycap donor!
I've been hunting for spherical alps caps since Multistation boards seem impossible to find. With Yamaha MSX keycaps I'll only be missing a 1.75u shift, 1.5 backslash key (most likely a second tab key), and an ansi enter.
Or, if I could find a spherical bigass enter I could kill two birds with one stone, but that's even more impossible.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 29 December 2017, 13:22:58
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
Sorry to dig up such an old post, but does anyone know if these are SKCC or SKCL/SKCM?
They're SKEW, or Alps integrated domes.
Great! Looks like I've finally found a keycap donor!
I've been hunting for spherical alps caps since Multistation boards seem impossible to find. With Yamaha MSX keycaps I'll only be missing a 1.75u shift, 1.5 backslash key (most likely a second tab key), and an ansi enter.
Or, if I could find a spherical bigass enter I could kill two birds with one stone, but that's even more impossible.
Yeah, these boards have lovely caps, but I have to inform you that they are not deeply scooped. The "MSX sculpted profile," as I call it, is actually rather flat on the top of the keys, whereas the Multistation's keys, while very similar in profile sculpt, have deep and noticeable scooping, the deepest of any of the Alps spherical profiles, from my experience.
Still, if you're after a good looking set, the MSX sets are amazing aesthetically.
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Tue, 02 January 2018, 23:36:49
I LOVE IT! It's like a modern version of my Apple Extended Keyboard II. Im a fan of Dampened Alps.
I hope Matias develops more switches and starts making gaming keyboards.
Post by: jnav on Wed, 03 January 2018, 11:13:43
Post by: N6NG on Mon, 15 January 2018, 13:57:10
Here are some fun Alps keycaps:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/PdrzKxN.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/e9gmqfq.jpg)
Sorry to dig up such an old post, but does anyone know if these are SKCC or SKCL/SKCM?
They're SKEW, or Alps integrated domes.
Great! Looks like I've finally found a keycap donor!
I've been hunting for spherical alps caps since Multistation boards seem impossible to find. With Yamaha MSX keycaps I'll only be missing a 1.75u shift, 1.5 backslash key (most likely a second tab key), and an ansi enter.
Or, if I could find a spherical bigass enter I could kill two birds with one stone, but that's even more impossible.
Yeah, these boards have lovely caps, but I have to inform you that they are not deeply scooped. The "MSX sculpted profile," as I call it, is actually rather flat on the top of the keys, whereas the Multistation's keys, while very similar in profile sculpt, have deep and noticeable scooping, the deepest of any of the Alps spherical profiles, from my experience.
Still, if you're after a good looking set, the MSX sets are amazing aesthetically.
While Multistation caps are the holy grail, period, I just can't find em anywhere. The MSX caps do look very good, but I still worry about not having a full set for a traditional ansi layout. Of course, that hasn't stopped me ;D I've already been outbid on two arabic MSX machines.
Post by: _rubik on Tue, 16 January 2018, 15:46:32
I love my blues and oranges; I think I'll have to complete the trifecta with a linear green.
Post by: smithyithy on Wed, 17 January 2018, 08:21:25
(https://i.imgur.com/6pEwigT.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/DEBroIo.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/eaPlU4m.jpg?1)
Stripped, ultrasonic cleaned, dry-lubed the stems, swapped for the springs -- 70cN and 85cN for the space.
Sadly only managed to source 58 of these, but need 60 for my planned build / layout. Fortunately I have a locking switch for Caps Lock that I've been eager to use, and I'm subbing-in an SKCM Orange in a lesser used key.
The board should be finished soon, just soldering the PCB, so will post more photos soon.
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 17 January 2018, 08:43:31
Refurbing the SKCM Browns boyos...Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/6pEwigT.jpg?1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DEBroIo.jpg?1)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/eaPlU4m.jpg?1)
Stripped, ultrasonic cleaned, dry-lubed the stems, swapped for the springs -- 70cN and 85cN for the space.
Sadly only managed to source 58 of these, but need 60 for my planned build / layout. Fortunately I have a locking switch for Caps Lock that I've been eager to use, and I'm subbing-in an SKCM Orange in a lesser used key.
The board should be finished soon, just soldering the PCB, so will post more photos soon.
That's some mighty finger strength you got there. Most of SKCM Browns' resistance are from the bumps, now on top of that you add spring resistance.
Cant wait to see the end product. Keep us posted.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 17 January 2018, 09:12:25
That's some mighty finger strength you got there.
Aren't replacement springs measured at bottom-out rather than actuation?
And where did you get those? I would love to have some myself.
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Wed, 17 January 2018, 09:15:31
That's some mighty finger strength you got there.
Aren't replacement springs measured at bottom-out rather than actuation?
And where did you get those? I would love to have some myself.
Yes they are and you can find replacement springs in Sprit's storefront on ebay here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPRiT-24K-Gold-Springs-Cherry-ALPS-DIY-GH60-MX-Vintage-Keyboard-2-Sets/222772521124? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPRiT-24K-Gold-Springs-Cherry-ALPS-DIY-GH60-MX-Vintage-Keyboard-2-Sets/222772521124?)
Post by: Delirious on Wed, 17 January 2018, 09:18:57
That's some mighty finger strength you got there.
Aren't replacement springs measured at bottom-out rather than actuation?
And where did you get those? I would love to have some myself.
I believe sprit still sells them on ebay, search for "alps springs" I think.
Post by: smithyithy on Wed, 17 January 2018, 12:03:19
Yep, they're rated at bottom-out weight I believe, as they don't really feel any heavier than stock, apart from the space bar, but I'm using a 7u space on this build so wanted a little big more weight. The switches were in decent condition when they arrived but I do like to use new gold spring whenever I'm cleaning and rebuilding.
Post by: smithyithy on Thu, 18 January 2018, 06:39:07
(https://i.imgur.com/XYetxy8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lqgMKyr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SWrsp6W.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vIFsajt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZVxurmg.jpg)
Post by: ander on Thu, 18 January 2018, 17:55:17
ALPS Switches Doubleshot ABS Keycaps (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/alps-keycaps) (Massdrop)
$19.99 + shipping
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
This is a great deal for any set of double-shot keys. (And it's a full, 104-key set—not just a bait-and-switch mini-board set where you have to pay more to add other sections, as Massdrop often does... Drives me nuts.) Available in black, red/brown and Dolch colorways.
I have no financial interest in this, BTW—it's not an ad, just an enthusiastic reference. And I've posted this here rather than in Great Finds, because it's Alps-specific.
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 18 January 2018, 23:35:15
This is where I bought mine:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Taihao-Dolch-Doubt-Shot-ALPS-Keycaps-set-For-ALPS-switch-mechanical-keyboard/222457991158
Post by: smithyithy on Fri, 19 January 2018, 02:48:47
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 19 January 2018, 03:49:56
And I don't even have an Alps keyboard!
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 19 January 2018, 16:09:08
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 19 January 2018, 16:40:04
The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station. For professional gamer :))
There is that :))
But it makes a bit more sense than a large expensive display box that would cost a fortune to ship around the world.
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 19 January 2018, 23:01:20
I prefer it to flat display boxes sellotaped together, which will fall apart scattering the keys inside the cardboard box anyway :PThe cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station. For professional gamer :))
There is that :))
But it makes a bit more sense than a large expensive display box that would cost a fortune to ship around the world.
Post by: ander on Sat, 20 January 2018, 02:37:54
The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station...
Yeah, that's funny...
[attachimg=1]
But I must agree with Rowdy—they're easiest to ship that way.
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 20 January 2018, 04:04:21
The cheap little plastic box they get sent in is... cute. All scattered loosely in a box with labeling that looks like it was meant for the shelf of a gas station. For professional gamer :))
There is that :))
But it makes a bit more sense than a large expensive display box that would cost a fortune to ship around the world.
I prefer it to flat display boxes sellotaped together, which will fall apart scattering the keys inside the cardboard box anyway :P
Had that too. Triumph Adler *cough* Mine actually arrived packed upside down :))
Post by: menuhin on Sat, 20 January 2018, 13:36:30
And how to apply them?
I have some Alps switches but I have yet to ultrasonic clean them and then lube them.
Post by: smithyithy on Sun, 21 January 2018, 11:15:58
What dry lube (where is the source also?) do most of you use?
And how to apply them?
I have some Alps switches but I have yet to ultrasonic clean them and then lube them.
I use this stuff: https://muc-off.com/products/bio-dry-lube
Use a small brush to apply a thin coat to the faces and sliders of the stems and let it dry before reassembly.
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 23 January 2018, 22:21:44
Got some decent photos in daylight today. Semi-nude to show of that brassss. Initial impressions, feels great, very deep feeling. Need to get the rest of the caps and some lubed stabs on it tonight and have a decent typing session on it.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/XYetxy8.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/lqgMKyr.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SWrsp6W.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vIFsajt.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZVxurmg.jpg)
where did you get a brass alps plate? What kind of stabilizer do you have on the space bar?
This looks very nice. Great work. I've been trying to buy AEKII boards off ebay for weeks now to no avail just to harvest alps switches. Can't seem to find any good deals.
Post by: ander on Wed, 24 January 2018, 01:04:03
Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues? Everyone's so wacky over them, and vintage boards with them command such silly high prices.
Could it be that hard for one of these many clone-makers to reproduce them down to the last detail? They seem to have done that with everything else. I'd buy some.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 24 January 2018, 02:27:27
Here's a question for y'all:Because they think they can get away with a simplified, cheaper design without people noticing.
Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues? Everyone's so wacky over them, and vintage boards with them command such silly high prices.
Could it be that hard for one of these many clone-makers to reproduce them down to the last detail? They seem to have done that with everything else. I'd buy some.
Post by: smithyithy on Wed, 24 January 2018, 07:22:32
where did you get a brass alps plate? What kind of stabilizer do you have on the space bar?
This looks very nice. Great work. I've been trying to buy AEKII boards off ebay for weeks now to no avail just to harvest alps switches. Can't seem to find any good deals.
Thanks! The brass plate was custom ct by a company in the UK called LaserMaster, I used the opensource Alps plate files, edited them slightly on AutoCAD and submitted them to the cutters. Turnaround was quick, Think it cost just under £40.. I bought a couple of plates at the same time so can't remember the exact price per plate.
For the space bar, I'm using the 7u wire stab that comes with the spacebar. However I think the 'tube' stabiliser thing is getting in the way so I may have to do without it. Otherwise it feels fine.
Post by: ander on Wed, 24 January 2018, 08:22:24
Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues?...Because they think they can get away with a simplified, cheaper design without people noticing.
But I'm not talking about some garden-variety blue-ish vaguely-Alpsy switches. I mean, why doesn't someone run off some switches that look and type like the real thing? How hard would it be? They're just switches, right?
Let's say a respected co. announced they've released a faithfully resurrected version of Alps Blues for, like, $30/set. Who here would come back with, "Meh, I don't care about that. I don't care that I could buy these switches, drop them in a chassis, and have a board that felt twice as good as a vintage Acer or Chicony with Alps Blues, because they'd be in a real board instead of one of those economy '90s boards that didn't know how lucky they were. Nah, I'm gonna play another round of FIFA, so later." I'm just saying.
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 24 January 2018, 09:57:41
It'd be cool, though.
Post by: tanvir175 on Wed, 24 January 2018, 11:17:15
Why doesn't someone make a good reproduction of Alps Blues?...Because they think they can get away with a simplified, cheaper design without people noticing.
They're just switches, right?
I'm not gonna say I know everything that goes on in developing a switch but I think you're undermining the efforts that go into it.
Post by: rich1051414 on Wed, 24 January 2018, 12:42:07
Post by: ander on Wed, 24 January 2018, 17:28:02
- There's such an Alps Blue mania in KB communities around the world, with people paying over $200 for otherwise pretty pedestrian '90s boards containing them; and
- Companies have come out with all kinds of new switches over the last few years—apparently having the resources, whatever they are, to design and make totally new switches (which I presume sell sufficiently, even the most pedestrian types)
I mean, really, if it was done right, who among us—not just the particularly Alps-appreciating guys, but anyone interested in MKs—wouldn't be intrigued enough to buy a sub-$100 board with New Alps Blues? I mean, people spend twice as much as that for a set of keys (or even one key!).
I don't know about switch manufacturing. But what I know about manufacturing in general is, the more resources you have in place, the more cheaply and easily you can R&D. For example, a company like Kaihua, which has just come out with all these new Kailh switches—why should they now keep their R&D guys sitting around waiting for the next idea?
And how about someone like XMIT? He worked with a Chinese company to design a new, modern Hall Effect switch from the ground up, and had not one but two iterations (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92565.0) of keyboards produced and sold with them. He just had a cool idea: to make one of the best switch technologies ever, available again. And he made it happen, and he's just one guy. (Well, he's an MIT-educated engineer, but still.)
Maybe all this would take is some vision and courage. I know what it doesn't take: sitting around thinking up reasons it'd be too hard. Funny how that works, isn't it?
They're just switches, right?
I'm not gonna say I know everything that goes on in developing a switch but I think you're undermining the efforts that go into it.
Sorry, you think I'm undermining the idea? But I started the discussion. Are you sure you know what "undermine" means?:
undermine (n.) to remove the foundation or support of subtly or by underhand means; subvert or weaken insidiously or secretly <"the way a writer handles the social situation either supports or undermines it"–Peter Crowcroft> <"selling below cost to undermine competition"–Time>
Post by: tanvir175 on Wed, 24 January 2018, 21:51:35
They're just switches, right?
I'm not gonna say I know everything that goes on in developing a switch but I think you're undermining the efforts that go into it.
Sorry, you think I'm undermining the idea? But I started the discussion. Are you sure you know what "undermine" means?:
undermine (n.) to remove the foundation or support of subtly or by underhand means; subvert or weaken insidiously or secretly <"the way a writer handles the social situation either supports or undermines it"–Peter Crowcroft> <"selling below cost to undermine competition"–Time>
Undermine is often used in speech as "to undermine someone or something."
Look at definition 1a. in this link https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/undermine
1a. to deliberately say or do things that make someone appear less impressive or less important
The only thing I would have wrong is "deliberately" because I will not make the assumption that you are doing it on purpose nor do I think you are. It says "someone" but it also applies to "something." I have heard it used for both.
However, the comment "They're just switches" makes it sound like there is little effort going into making a switch. As if once day a company can just pop out o of nowhere and reproduce complicated Alps because "they're just switches."
I'm not trying to start an argument here about anything. I know you started the discussion (on specifically why companies aren't investing in remaking complicated blue alps) but I didn't say you were undermining the idea. In fact, I said nothing close to that.
Post by: schoolbus on Wed, 24 January 2018, 22:27:11
Well, maybe you guys are right. It just seemed to me that since:
- There's such an Alps Blue mania in KB communities around the world, with people paying over $200 for otherwise pretty pedestrian '90s boards containing them; and
But how many people are actually doing that annually? No way it even comes close to $5k+ a year which based on my experience in new product development is literally a drop of piss in a pond.
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Sun, 28 January 2018, 22:04:53
Really liked the dampened cream Alps on that one.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 01 February 2018, 14:01:04
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 01 February 2018, 14:01:38
Guess who's back? ;)
Back again?
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 01 February 2018, 14:03:43
Guess who's back? ;)
Back again?
Hint: Not Shady.
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 01 February 2018, 14:08:06
Guess who's back? ;)
Back again?
Hint: Not Shady.
What's up? Only just back myself. :)
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 01 February 2018, 15:06:15
What's up? Only just back myself. :)
Not too much. Appears people are still clacking away even a year and a half later.
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Thu, 01 February 2018, 23:45:59
What's up? Only just back myself. :)
Not too much. Appears people are still clacking away even a year and a half later.
Hey Blaise170! Yes, Im back!
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 07:45:15
(https://i.imgur.com/8RFFuPg.jpg)
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 02 February 2018, 07:47:01
Hi hi. I suppose I should probably update my location since I moved... And to avoid going too off topic I suppose I should also actually post something Alps related. So here goes:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/8RFFuPg.jpg)
Nice!
Ah, but your Current Keyboards spreadsheet in your sig says Total Keyboards Owned = 0. Lies!
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 07:53:45
Nice!
Ah, but your Current Keyboards spreadsheet in your sig says Total Keyboards Owned = 0. Lies!
Haha yeah I haven't touched anything keyboard related in over a year. I have a long weekend so I might spend a few hours cleaning up the storage room and figuring out what exactly I have left. I might start proxying stuff from Japan again, just need to make sure I don't go insane with keyboards like I did in the past.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 02 February 2018, 08:06:16
Haha yeah I haven't touched anything keyboard related in over a year. I have a long weekend so I might spend a few hours cleaning up the storage room and figuring out what exactly I have left. I might start proxying stuff from Japan again, just need to make sure I don't go insane with keyboards like I did in the past.
Same for me, actually. I still have a room full of keyboard stuff, but I didn't touch any of it in over a year. I'm getting things prepped to sell, myself. Funny how this hobby can make you go a little crazy, but stepping away from it will hopefully let us come back stronger.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 08:12:32
And then you have to realize that the answer to that question is, nothing. I actually use an Apple Magic keyboard at work now, which I never would have done a year ago.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 02 February 2018, 08:15:55
Yeah a lot of it was that collector mentality: "But what if I never see one of these again?!"
And then you have to realize that the answer to that question is, nothing. I actually use an Apple Magic keyboard at work now, which I never would have done a year ago.
Wow, so strange...
I just brought a Filco into work this week, after using a Magic Keyboard here for a year. It's still here on the desk, too. I might go back to it.
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Fri, 02 February 2018, 10:36:25
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 10:58:34
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 02 February 2018, 17:11:54
I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner. If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better? I can also lubricate them if it will help.
If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction. :thumb:
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 17:54:27
You don't NEED an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them, but its helpful. You need to take care to clean all the grime from the sharp corners, as this is where the friction is coming from. Lastly, I would recommend adding all the sliders to a bag with a bit of dry lube and shaking them up, so the sliders are lightly coated. Don't add lube to the switch itself, it only makes it worse dealing with dirt.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 02 February 2018, 18:02:45
Alps all feel slightly bindy when pressed off center. It is a quirk of alps you get used to. Cherry spoils people here as they don't care about off center key presses.
You don't NEED an ultrasonic cleaner to clean them, but its helpful. You need to take care to clean all the grime from the sharp corners, as this is where the friction is coming from. Lastly, I would recommend adding all the sliders to a bag with a bit of dry lube and shaking them up, so the sliders are lightly coated. Don't add lube to the switch itself, it only makes it worse dealing with dirt.
Sharp corners of the sliders, or the top housings?
Post by: eksuen on Fri, 02 February 2018, 18:18:27
Okay people. Need some advice from the Alps crowd here. Got an AEKII from ebay today. It looks great. Has not yellowed at all. It has dampened cream alps. However, the switches feel terrible. Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??
I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner. If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better? I can also lubricate them if it will help.
If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction. :thumb:
I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 02 February 2018, 18:40:33
Okay people. Need some advice from the Alps crowd here. Got an AEKII from ebay today. It looks great. Has not yellowed at all. It has dampened cream alps. However, the switches feel terrible. Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??
I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner. If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better? I can also lubricate them if it will help.
If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction. :thumb:
I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.
Very possible. I cleaned just one, and I do feel a difference, but I just don’t think I’m a fan of them. I have some click modded salmon alps on hand. Now I need to decide if I want to Replace the switches in the AEkii or just make a new board using the keycaps.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 02 February 2018, 18:45:44
Okay people. Need some advice from the Alps crowd here. Got an AEKII from ebay today. It looks great. Has not yellowed at all. It has dampened cream alps. However, the switches feel terrible. Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??
I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner. If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better? I can also lubricate them if it will help.
If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction. :thumb:
I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.
Very possible. I cleaned just one, and I do feel a difference, but I just don’t think I’m a fan of them. I have some click modded salmon alps on hand. Now I need to decide if I want to Replace the switches in the AEkii or just make a new board using the keycaps.
I vote for new board. There are several Alps options on the market now, and to me the AEKII is just meh.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 18:52:43
Post by: eksuen on Fri, 02 February 2018, 18:54:29
Okay people. Need some advice from the Alps crowd here. Got an AEKII from ebay today. It looks great. Has not yellowed at all. It has dampened cream alps. However, the switches feel terrible. Most of them feel gritty and some are hard to press at first, especially when not pressed on center. I'm assuming it's because they are dirty??
I was thinking about getting an ultrasonic cleaner. If I clean all of the sliders and top housings, will the switches feel better? I can also lubricate them if it will help.
If this isn't the right place to ask, just point me in the right direction. :thumb:
I don't like how dampened cream Alps feel at all, so it's possible the switches aren't up your alley even if they are cleaned.
Very possible. I cleaned just one, and I do feel a difference, but I just don’t think I’m a fan of them. I have some click modded salmon alps on hand. Now I need to decide if I want to Replace the switches in the AEkii or just make a new board using the keycaps.
I vote for new board. There are several Alps options on the market now, and to me the AEKII is just meh.
I'd personally opt for a new board too. I enjoy my more compact Alps boards very much. But maybe you're a fullsize user.
Post by: Kevadu on Fri, 02 February 2018, 18:56:08
How would you compare the AEK II switches to a Matias 'quiet click'?
Post by: eksuen on Fri, 02 February 2018, 19:00:41
Honestly I was thinking about buying an AEK II just to rip out the switches, not to use as-is. They're relatively cheap and accessible. But I'm surprised you guys are so negative about the switches as I generally have heard good things about them.
How would you compare the AEK II switches to a Matias 'quiet click'?
Dampened cream Alps feel really mushy and unresponsive to me. I much prefer Matias Quiet Clicks to dampened creams. I have yet to try the new version of the Matias switches that reduce wobble though, not that it really bothered me in the first place.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 19:01:39
Post by: Kevadu on Fri, 02 February 2018, 19:08:57
But it sounds like I might as well just go for the Matias switches. It's a lot less work too and you don't have to worry about cleaning dirty switches that way.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 02 February 2018, 19:41:46
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Post by: tanvir175 on Fri, 02 February 2018, 20:08:54
I managed to snag two AEK's with Orange Alps off eBay; one super nice and clean and the other, which I plan to use with an Alps64 PCB, is really dirty. Not sure if the user who sold me the clean one also cleaned the switches or just barely ever use it, but the switches feel like they're in pristine condition. Although, both of these being my first alps boards, I don't know what that feels like. The dirtier one feels super scratchy and nasty.
I have an ultrasonic cleaner and I have desoldered most of the switches already (some of them have pins bent onto the PCB which makes it a pain in the ass to remove) so I am getting ready to cleaning them.
As I understand it, you should clean the bottom housing, the top housing, the sliders & springs.
To the questions now: Is it safe to clean the bottom housing with the contact leaf still inside? The one that is connected to the two pins. Some of the pins have excess solder on them preventing them from coming out. I know this is easy to remedy but just wanted to ask if it was okay/recommended to throw those in the cleaner as well.
Also, is it recommended/okay to throw the tactile leaf into the cleaner as well?
Post by: macclack on Sat, 03 February 2018, 23:54:00
Honestly I was thinking about buying an AEK II just to rip out the switches, not to use as-is. They're relatively cheap and accessible. But I'm surprised you guys are so negative about the switches as I generally have heard good things about them.
How would you compare the AEK II switches to a Matias 'quiet click'?
I like dampened cream switches but I guess I'm in the minority. They're better than Matias' quiet click switches. The Matias switches feel slightly cheaper, are a little scratchier and the double-tactile bump takes some getting used to.
Post by: EscapeVelocity on Sun, 04 February 2018, 12:23:34
I wouldnt say it's my favorite switch or even my favorite Alps switch, but they come in real handy when microphone recording is involved...such as podcasting, livestreaming, etc.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 04 February 2018, 15:33:04
By the way, are there any TKL or 100% Alps boards with aluminum cases (that aren't selling for $800+ like the Kingsaver)?
Post by: d.caminero on Sun, 04 February 2018, 15:46:17
I was wondering if there is any available 60 or 65 PCB for ALPS with a split spacebar? I've been looking for one, but it seems the only options are in GB phase and not regularly held or anything.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 04 February 2018, 16:09:31
Hello guys quick question.
I was wondering if there is any available 60 or 65 PCB for ALPS with a split spacebar? I've been looking for one, but it seems the only options are in GB phase and not regularly held or anything.
Www.lfkeyboards.com
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 04 February 2018, 16:37:32
Even though I'm not a fan of Cream Damped, I might buy another AEK to use at work.
By the way, are there any TKL or 100% Alps boards with aluminum cases (that aren't selling for $800+ like the Kingsaver)?
You could always get a KBParadise V80 MTS and put it in one of the TEX alu cases.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 04 February 2018, 16:41:59
You could always get a KBParadise V80 MTS and put it in one of the TEX alu cases.
Oh ya I forgot about those. I have a bunch of new Green Alps so I might do a build with them at some point.
Post by: d.caminero on Sun, 04 February 2018, 17:13:18
Hello guys quick question.
I was wondering if there is any available 60 or 65 PCB for ALPS with a split spacebar? I've been looking for one, but it seems the only options are in GB phase and not regularly held or anything.
Www.lfkeyboards.com
Thank you very much for the suggestion, although I'm looking for a 60 pcb to fit in a standard 60 case or 65 to fit in a TADA kind of case. Might consider a 68 though, not too much wider actually.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 04 February 2018, 17:23:44
Hello guys quick question.
I was wondering if there is any available 60 or 65 PCB for ALPS with a split spacebar? I've been looking for one, but it seems the only options are in GB phase and not regularly held or anything.
Www.lfkeyboards.com
Thank you very much for the suggestion, although I'm looking for a 60 pcb to fit in a standard 60 case or 65 to fit in a TADA kind of case. Might consider a 68 though, not too much wider actually.
http://www.lfkeyboards.com/smk65.html (http://www.lfkeyboards.com/smk65.html)
Post by: d.caminero on Sun, 04 February 2018, 17:47:10
Hello guys quick question.
I was wondering if there is any available 60 or 65 PCB for ALPS with a split spacebar? I've been looking for one, but it seems the only options are in GB phase and not regularly held or anything.
Www.lfkeyboards.com
Thank you very much for the suggestion, although I'm looking for a 60 pcb to fit in a standard 60 case or 65 to fit in a TADA kind of case. Might consider a 68 though, not too much wider actually.
http://www.lfkeyboards.com/smk65.html (http://www.lfkeyboards.com/smk65.html)
Unfortunately this one does not support split space bar, but thank you very much for the suggestion, I actually didn't see it was also compatible with regular ALPS. If I can't find anything with a split spacebar I'll take one of those.
Thanks again!
Post by: nsmechkb on Sun, 04 February 2018, 22:29:19
Hello guys quick question.
I was wondering if there is any available 60 or 65 PCB for ALPS with a split spacebar? I've been looking for one, but it seems the only options are in GB phase and not regularly held or anything.
Delirious' suggestion is a great one. If you need the split spacebar, LFKeyboards has their 68-key Alps PCB:
http://www.lfkeyboards.com/lfk78-pcb-68key.html
There's also Clueboard PCB's. You can see the supported layouts near the bottom of the page:
https://clueboard.co/parts/clueboard-66-pcb-25
Post by: Kevadu on Sun, 04 February 2018, 23:11:51
Delirious' suggestion is a great one. If you need the split spacebar, LFKeyboards has their 68-key Alps PCB:
http://www.lfkeyboards.com/lfk78-pcb-68key.html
Where would you get a case for one of those PCBs without buying a whole VA68M just for its case? Because those aren't exactly cheap.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 04 February 2018, 23:37:12
Delirious' suggestion is a great one. If you need the split spacebar, LFKeyboards has their 68-key Alps PCB:
http://www.lfkeyboards.com/lfk78-pcb-68key.html
Where would you get a case for one of those PCBs without buying a whole VA68M just for its case? Because those aren't exactly cheap.
Vamillo have their own subforum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=192.0) here on GH, someone was able to contact them and buy just the case alone before. Maybe they still have that offer.
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 05 February 2018, 07:35:37
http://s.aliexpress.com/7Vj2auUz
You can message the seller and see if you can get just a case
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 05 February 2018, 08:05:19
Post by: d.caminero on Mon, 05 February 2018, 10:09:54
Considering building out a TKL, but not sure whether I should get aluminum or acrylic. Suggestions?
I like the sound of acrylic and the feeling of aluminum, so are you going to use linears or tactiles/clickies?
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 05 February 2018, 11:03:13
Considering building out a TKL, but not sure whether I should get aluminum or acrylic. Suggestions?
I like the sound of acrylic and the feeling of aluminum, so are you going to use linears or tactiles/clickies?
Most likely green but I might swap in my blues at some point. I think I'm liking the look of acrylic but then I'd probably be tempted to also add LEDs...
Post by: d.caminero on Mon, 05 February 2018, 15:03:39
Most likely green but I might swap in my blues at some point. I think I'm liking the look of acrylic but then I'd probably be tempted to also add LEDs...
Yeah, clear acrylic with backlighting is always a good option!
Post by: smithyithy on Tue, 06 February 2018, 03:22:33
Post by: smithyithy on Tue, 06 February 2018, 03:23:07
Will be putting DCS Alpine Winter on this in 7u HHKB layout, just need to sort out the stabilizers really.
I had originally click-modded the damped Creams after refurbing them but IO just wasn't happy with the consistency, so removed the leafs to make them linear. Not the perfect switch, granted, but they' re smooth and have a nice clack on the bottom-out.
(https://i.imgur.com/sRgjS1c.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/oI1DucY.jpg?1)
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 22 February 2018, 21:05:46
The sliders:
[attachimg=1]
The stabilizer fix:
[attachimg=2]
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93403
Post by: d.caminero on Fri, 23 February 2018, 06:23:13
So, blindassassin is working on the "nexus" sliders to allow MX caps to be used on alps switches. He's also come up with an interesting solution for cherry to alps stabilizer inserts. I'm posting this link here for anyone interested. This would also work for SP alps caps (granite, light cycle, alpine winter) that come with cherry stabilizer cruciforms.
The sliders:
(Attachment Link)
The stabilizer fix:
(Attachment Link)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93403
I hope the last prototypes work well because I want to put orange alps on my pearl with GMK Yuri and the pearl is shipping already!
Also, I have a question. Is it mandatory to raise somehow the stabilizers if I want to use cherry stabs with alps switches? As in DSA Lightcycle or DCS Alpine Winter. Shouldn't they work properly if I simply install cherry stabs on the board?
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 February 2018, 06:39:48
So, blindassassin is working on the "nexus" sliders to allow MX caps to be used on alps switches. He's also come up with an interesting solution for cherry to alps stabilizer inserts. I'm posting this link here for anyone interested. This would also work for SP alps caps (granite, light cycle, alpine winter) that come with cherry stabilizer cruciforms.
The sliders:
(Attachment Link)
The stabilizer fix:
(Attachment Link)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93403
I don't think that offset is needed, actually.
There's precedent of these adapters on vintage Alps keyboards already, as seen on the ADDS 1010 terminal keyboard here:
(https://i.imgur.com/DdPscvM.jpg)
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 23 February 2018, 07:17:54
So, blindassassin is working on the "nexus" sliders to allow MX caps to be used on alps switches. He's also come up with an interesting solution for cherry to alps stabilizer inserts. I'm posting this link here for anyone interested. This would also work for SP alps caps (granite, light cycle, alpine winter) that come with cherry stabilizer cruciforms.
The sliders:
(Attachment Link)
The stabilizer fix:
(Attachment Link)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93403
I don't think that offset is needed, actually.
There's precedent of these adapters on vintage Alps keyboards already, as seen on the ADDS 1010 terminal keyboard here:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DdPscvM.jpg)
The offset is needed on mx keycaps. Their stabilizer stems are set further in.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 February 2018, 07:24:05
The offset is needed on mx keycaps. Their stabilizer stems are set further in.
Are you also aware of the differences in traditional Cherry 7u stabilizer spacing versus TaiHao/SP's 7u spacing? It's actually not the same either.
That said, the offset only seems more necessary only if you plan on using the original wire. I guess it would save the trouble of needing to custom bend wire for the stabs if that's the goal.
Otherwise, positioning isn't important due to the nature of Alps stabs.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 23 February 2018, 07:41:46
(https://i.imgur.com/vRNxF35.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 February 2018, 07:55:19
Here's what I mean. I'm pretty sure the 7u positioning of stabs is the same on SP's MX caps, or is that not the case? It also matches the spacing on 7u vintage space bars that used MX stabs despite being Alps mount for the switch.
Cherry's are a bit off in comparison, speaking as someone who's stem-swapped Gateron space bars for some Alps builds using Cherry stabs.
Post by: d.caminero on Fri, 23 February 2018, 08:57:06
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xTBVB4L.jpg?1)
Here's what I mean. I'm pretty sure the 7u positioning of stabs is the same on SP's MX caps, or is that not the case? It also matches the spacing on 7u vintage space bars that used MX stabs despite being Alps mount for the switch.
Cherry's are a bit off in comparison, speaking as someone who's stem-swapped Gateron space bars for some Alps builds using Cherry stabs.
This is what I was asking about before. I'm under the impression that you don't need anything to use MX stabs if you don't rise the stems in ALPS.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 February 2018, 09:12:03
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xTBVB4L.jpg?1)
Here's what I mean. I'm pretty sure the 7u positioning of stabs is the same on SP's MX caps, or is that not the case? It also matches the spacing on 7u vintage space bars that used MX stabs despite being Alps mount for the switch.
Cherry's are a bit off in comparison, speaking as someone who's stem-swapped Gateron space bars for some Alps builds using Cherry stabs.
This is what I was asking about before. I'm under the impression that you don't need anything to use MX stabs if you don't rise the stems in ALPS.
Right. I've actually made my own MX stabs but shaving down traditional Alps stabs to fit into the Y axis of the cruciform mount, and then just bended wire for it myself. It's what I use on my FJELL build!
(https://i.imgur.com/bg30Tms.jpg)
This one uses a Cherry-style space bar from the Tai Hao FAME TH-5539 model that has Cherry clone keycaps that are Alps mount. Yeah, all it took was modifying the inserts to fit and bending wire and it was good to go.
I might not have needed to bend the wire had I not chosen to use normal stab inserts as opposed to the long space bar ones (which I like to hold onto).
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 23 February 2018, 09:16:26
But the new nexus sliders will have many people using MX keycaps on alps boards. They're going to expect to be able to swap out the slider in their alps builds and use MX caps... but they would have to re-bend the stabilizer wire, and trust me, that's not fun or easy to do well. The inserts will be a Godsend for cheap if they work right.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 23 February 2018, 09:17:58
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xTBVB4L.jpg?1)
Here's what I mean. I'm pretty sure the 7u positioning of stabs is the same on SP's MX caps, or is that not the case? It also matches the spacing on 7u vintage space bars that used MX stabs despite being Alps mount for the switch.
Cherry's are a bit off in comparison, speaking as someone who's stem-swapped Gateron space bars for some Alps builds using Cherry stabs.
This is what I was asking about before. I'm under the impression that you don't need anything to use MX stabs if you don't rise the stems in ALPS.
Right. I've actually made my own MX stabs but shaving down traditional Alps stabs to fit into the Y axis of the cruciform mount, and then just bended wire for it myself. It's what I use on my FJELL build!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/bg30Tms.jpg)
This one uses a Cherry-style space bar from the Tai Hao FAME TH-5539 model that has Cherry clone keycaps that are Alps mount. Yeah, all it took was modifying the inserts to fit and bending wire and it was good to go.
I might not have needed to bend the wire had I not chosen to use normal stab inserts as opposed to the long space bar ones (which I like to hold onto).
You have to use the long ones because the wire is taller and has to slide up more. If you just use costar inserts the keycap won't press all the way down.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 February 2018, 09:29:28
You have to use the long ones because the wire is taller and has to slide up more. If you just use costar inserts the keycap won't press all the way down.
I'm not using long ones for that bar, I'm using the shorter ones. It's actually not necessary, it's a matter of the way the wire is bent more than needing the extra depth for travel. You can see this with certain Alps space bars like on M0115 (AEKs) and M0116s.
Also yeah, using the stab mounts as is on MX stab Alps mount caps does require custom wire bending, which can be tedious. The 7u spacing on TaiHao and SP and most Alps space bars that use MX mount stabs (Monterey keyboard's caps do too) seem to all have the same spacing. Cherry is a little more widely spaced.
The 6.25u spacing seems to be more universal between them though, not considering offset stems.
Post by: d.caminero on Fri, 23 February 2018, 10:21:38
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xTBVB4L.jpg?1)
Here's what I mean. I'm pretty sure the 7u positioning of stabs is the same on SP's MX caps, or is that not the case? It also matches the spacing on 7u vintage space bars that used MX stabs despite being Alps mount for the switch.
Cherry's are a bit off in comparison, speaking as someone who's stem-swapped Gateron space bars for some Alps builds using Cherry stabs.
This is what I was asking about before. I'm under the impression that you don't need anything to use MX stabs if you don't rise the stems in ALPS.
Right. I've actually made my own MX stabs but shaving down traditional Alps stabs to fit into the Y axis of the cruciform mount, and then just bended wire for it myself. It's what I use on my FJELL build!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/bg30Tms.jpg)
This one uses a Cherry-style space bar from the Tai Hao FAME TH-5539 model that has Cherry clone keycaps that are Alps mount. Yeah, all it took was modifying the inserts to fit and bending wire and it was good to go.
I might not have needed to bend the wire had I not chosen to use normal stab inserts as opposed to the long space bar ones (which I like to hold onto).
I can't picture what you describe here, can you post some pics?
So, if I want to use Lightcycle with regular MX stabs, all I'll need to do is bend some wire, is that correct?
Also, beautiful board, as always E3! :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 February 2018, 10:39:29
I can't picture what you describe here, can you post some pics?
So, if I want to use Lightcycle with regular MX stabs, all I'll need to do is bend some wire, is that correct?
Also, beautiful board, as always E3! :thumb: :thumb:
Sure, I'll see if I can take some pictures for you. Yep, bend some wire and use a file or rotary tool to thin down the Alps cap insert so it can fit into the MX mount stab in the cap. Then you just bend wire that fits properly into it, and you're good to go.
Also, thank you! It's definitely one of my favorite Alps boards.
(https://i.imgur.com/oXEZwsl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6pQs4u2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q7v5oCj.jpg)
Post by: E3E on Fri, 23 February 2018, 22:17:49
(https://i.imgur.com/GGX0B2o.jpg)
Post by: d.caminero on Sun, 25 February 2018, 15:50:12
I can't picture what you describe here, can you post some pics?
So, if I want to use Lightcycle with regular MX stabs, all I'll need to do is bend some wire, is that correct?
Also, beautiful board, as always E3! :thumb: :thumb:
Sure, I'll see if I can take some pictures for you. Yep, bend some wire and use a file or rotary tool to thin down the Alps cap insert so it can fit into the MX mount stab in the cap. Then you just bend wire that fits properly into it, and you're good to go.
Also, thank you! It's definitely one of my favorite Alps boards.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oXEZwsl.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/6pQs4u2.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/q7v5oCj.jpg)
I've found some answers in the DSA Lightcycle thread, there is no need for modifications if you are using regular MX stabs with DSA Lightcycle. All the modifications were required to use other kind of stabilizers.
Also, that hot swappable mod :p :p
In fact, since I'm receiving 2 Pearl PCB's I might try it on one of them, you already gave me some explanations some time ago via reddit.
Post by: Kevadu on Sat, 10 March 2018, 20:01:37
Then I found this:
(https://i.imgur.com/aF6I5JD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/i7mMYIz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vk5flzq.jpg)
The box was a little beat up but the keyboard inside was absolutely pristine. In fact it doesn't look like it's ever been used at all. That red "Important" sticker was there from the start. While I'm not entirely sure what I would do with that tiny trackpad that's included I tested it out and it does indeed work. Oh yeah and it's got a split spacebar even. That's neat enough to make me forgive the tiny backspace key.
This thing cost me a whopping $5. Viva recycling centers!
But the really curious thing about this keyboard to me is the switches. Based on the age (it has WIndows keys and all that) I would assume it's using simplified Alps. And the slider is definitely white. But let's just say that these are the quietest white alps I've ever encountered. The keyboard itself isn't particularly quiet but that seems to mostly be due to the keys bottoming out. If I take a keycap off and play with the switches...well, there's a slight noise to them but certainly nothing like I'm used to with clicky Alps. And it actually feels more like a tactile switch as well.
There is a tactile white Alps variant (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_White_Damped) but that's complicated Alps. This keyboard looks relatively modern and I have a hard time believing they were still using complicated Alps for it. But I've never even heard of a tactile simplified white Alps switch...
So what is this? I guess I could open up a switch and have a look though with the keyboard being in such great condition I'm somewhat reluctant.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 10 March 2018, 23:46:11
I know a bunch of you have mountains of switches harvested from AEKs and old Blue Alps boards, waiting for something to do with them.
Disclosure: I am in on it and want you to buy dozens so it's cheaper for me. :)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 11 March 2018, 04:38:58
Inspired by Chyrosran22 I decided to visit my local recycling center to look for keyboards. They certainly did have lots of keyboards but the vast majority were crappy rubber domes not worth a second glance...Could be Dampened White, Alps used those a fair bit during their last years.
Then I found this:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/aF6I5JD.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/i7mMYIz.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/vk5flzq.jpg)
The box was a little beat up but the keyboard inside was absolutely pristine. In fact it doesn't look like it's ever been used at all. That red "Important" sticker was there from the start. While I'm not entirely sure what I would do with that tiny trackpad that's included I tested it out and it does indeed work. Oh yeah and it's got a split spacebar even. That's neat enough to make me forgive the tiny backspace key.
This thing cost me a whopping $5. Viva recycling centers!
But the really curious thing about this keyboard to me is the switches. Based on the age (it has WIndows keys and all that) I would assume it's using simplified Alps. And the slider is definitely white. But let's just say that these are the quietest white alps I've ever encountered. The keyboard itself isn't particularly quiet but that seems to mostly be due to the keys bottoming out. If I take a keycap off and play with the switches...well, there's a slight noise to them but certainly nothing like I'm used to with clicky Alps. And it actually feels more like a tactile switch as well.
There is a tactile white Alps variant (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_White_Damped) but that's complicated Alps. This keyboard looks relatively modern and I have a hard time believing they were still using complicated Alps for it. But I've never even heard of a tactile simplified white Alps switch...
So what is this? I guess I could open up a switch and have a look though with the keyboard being in such great condition I'm somewhat reluctant.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 10:45:12
(https://i.imgur.com/tchgzcU.jpg)
Post by: a_ak57 on Sat, 17 March 2018, 12:32:09
Would Matias QC vs Salmon basically be like Cherry Brown vs Clear, or like Topre clone vs 55g Topre?
Post by: tanvir175 on Sat, 17 March 2018, 13:31:56
So I have a possibly loaded question, as I've never used an Alps type switch and am planning to build a board with them for work. I'm aware that Matias switches are not as good as the actual Alps switches, but what level of difference are we talking about? For reference I'll be using tactile switches and putting the Nexus sliders in them, and I'm trying to decide if I should just grab some Matias QCs and swap with those, or go for the more difficult/expensive option of tracking down a board with Orange or Salmon alps (which I'd also feel a bit bad for gutting as well as modding the housings).
Would Matias QC vs Salmon basically be like Cherry Brown vs Clear, or like Topre clone vs 55g Topre?
I'm not experienced in Alps enough to answer this with confidence but I came to say that Salmon alps aren't that expensive. Buying a full board might be, because shipping is insanely expensive for large boards, but on /r/mechmarket, I see Salmon Alps pop up on sale every now and then and they're around 30-40 for around 100. I've seen some go as high as 50 but haven't seen those ones sell so they probably eventually lower it down. Orange Alps aren't too expensive either with it being around 50-55 for around 100.
Post by: a_ak57 on Sat, 17 March 2018, 15:54:09
Post by: tanvir175 on Sat, 17 March 2018, 16:09:30
Huh, for some reason I was under the impression they cost a lot more, guess the few threads I scouted on mechmarket were just sellers asking for much more than normal (over $1 per orange for instance).
Maybe I just happened to see listings where the sellers were being very generous.
Most recent generous one I remember was an Alps64 PCB with SKCM Blue Alps soldered in already for $150. I'm pretty sad I missed it. I bought my SKCM Blue Alps alone for that price (87 of them).
Post by: macclack on Sat, 17 March 2018, 18:20:59
Would Matias QC vs Salmon basically be like Cherry Brown vs Clear, or like Topre clone vs 55g Topre?
Going with Matias QC rather than salmon/orange Alps, or even dampened cream alps (which is probably a better comparison) is a trade-off in refinement, sound, and ease of serviceability for buying something new IMO. In terms of refinement and sound, salmon/orange Alps are like a 10 out of 10, dampened cream Alps are like a 7-8 and Matias are like a 5 or 6 out of 10. Matias switches tend to be a little scratchier and less refined than Alps and they have a unique double-tactile bump, one towards the top and one towards the bottom of the key press. Also Matias switches are higher pitched, whereas Alps switches are deeper, and fuller sounding.
All that being said, I love Matias QC switches, especially the newer ones because I'm pretty sure Matias has been modifying their tooling and lubing the newer ones. You can't really go wrong, but if you want the best, go with clean Alps with low mileage. You'll be spoiled tho.
Post by: klennkellon on Wed, 28 March 2018, 22:10:00
Thanks.
Post by: nguyenhimself on Thu, 29 March 2018, 00:18:00
Also: As of 2018, how heavy/stiff is the salmon Alps? If I find MX Black and MX Clear a tad too heavy for my fingers, will I be OK with salmon Alps?
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/978AAOSwjOxau5Fe/s-l1600.jpg)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Uc4AAOSwbzxau9-w/s-l1600.jpg)
Thanks.
Post by: tanvir175 on Thu, 29 March 2018, 00:51:23
This is salmon Alps, right? It's an M0115 with the serial # around 750,000.
Also: At os 2018, how heavy/stiff is the salmon Alps? If I find MX Black and MX Clear a tad too heavy for my fingers, will I be OK with salmon Alps?
Thanks.
Yup, those look like Salmon alps, the first picture being the lock switch. SPRiT lists them at 55g on his website. That's just under the 60g of MX Black's but I don't know if they're directly comparable. Since you have the board on hand, you should be able to test it.
Are you desoldering the switches or using the board, as is? If you plan on opening them up for cleaning (they look like they desperately need it) you can order springs that are compatible with alps and swap them out for lighter ones.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 29 March 2018, 10:07:52
Post by: Acereconkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 18:22:42
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 13 April 2018, 20:40:41
Post by: subcat on Fri, 13 April 2018, 20:56:34
The easiest keys to source are the doubleshot Alps sets.
in other news, the best keycaps for your mx switches are the mx keycaps
seriously what does this even mean, tai-hao?
Post by: klennkellon on Fri, 13 April 2018, 21:01:51
my favorite mechanical keyboard is the one with the switchesThe easiest keys to source are the doubleshot Alps sets.
in other news, the best keycaps for your mx switches are the mx keycaps
seriously what does this even mean, tai-hao?
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 13 April 2018, 22:11:42
my favorite mechanical keyboard is the one with the switchesThe easiest keys to source are the doubleshot Alps sets.
in other news, the best keycaps for your mx switches are the mx keycaps
seriously what does this even mean, tai-hao?
My favorite layout is the one with all the keys lining up in staggered manner.
Post by: Acereconkeys on Fri, 13 April 2018, 22:14:11
my favorite mechanical keyboard is the one with the switchesThe easiest keys to source are the doubleshot Alps sets.
in other news, the best keycaps for your mx switches are the mx keycaps
seriously what does this even mean, tai-hao?
My favorite layout is the one with all the keys lining up in staggered manner.
My favorite is my favorite.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 13 April 2018, 22:46:20
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 15 April 2018, 02:46:13
The easiest keys to source are the doubleshot Alps sets.
in other news, the best keycaps for your mx switches are the mx keycaps
seriously what does this even mean, tai-hao?
Typing on my phone, I meant Tai Hao... :mad:
Post by: nguyenhimself on Mon, 16 April 2018, 02:02:20
How heavy/stiff is the salmon Alps? If I find MX Black and MX Clear too heavy for my fingers, will I be OK with salmon Alps?
Thanks.
Post by: Acereconkeys on Mon, 16 April 2018, 03:04:08
(https://i.imgur.com/TWg0qES.jpg)
Also the salmons have a 70g peak tactile force and a 65g bottom out force which is about 10g heavier than the oranges. Cherry mx clears have a 65ish gram tactile bump and 95g bottom out force and blacks have an actuation of 60g and a bottom out force of 80g. Salmons should feel comparable to clears on tactility but significantly easier to bottom out.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 17 April 2018, 08:17:41
Woo just got an M3501 going to clean/use the caps :) and maybe try to resell the cream dampeneds. Or keep em for some random project who knows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TWg0qES.jpg)
Also the salmons have a 70g peak tactile force and a 65g bottom out force which is about 10g heavier than the oranges. Cherry mx clears have a 65ish gram tactile bump and 95g bottom out force and blacks have an actuation of 60g and a bottom out force of 80g. Salmons should feel comparable to clears on tactility but significantly easier to bottom out.
I'd be interested in the PCB if you are going to toss it anyways.
Post by: Acereconkeys on Tue, 17 April 2018, 11:36:27
Shoot me a pm we'll figure out the details.
Post by: a_ak57 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 07:09:12
Post by: subcat on Thu, 19 April 2018, 07:27:45
So dumb question perhaps but are dampened and undampened Cream Alps different internally aside from the dampeners? From what I can tell it seems like the undampened version is considered better and that it isn't replicable simply by removing the dampeners so I assume they are completely different, but in that case why use the same nickname for both?
yes they are internally different, the naming scheme is just the way it is for lack of a better word. i know some people who called it 'ivory' for a time but i dunno.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 14:02:04
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 19 April 2018, 14:34:19
1. Spring weightings are different
2. Switch plates are different (long in undampened vs. short in dampened)
3. Tactile leafs are different
4. Sliders are different
Adding all of those up we have a superior typing experience in NEXT undampened creams comparing to the mediocre dampened counterparts. MX Blacks and Reds are similar in designs but tiny differences(spring weights, slider angles) result in polarized typing experiences. As a matter of fact, if all linears are “pretty similar” then why do we have a millions varieties of linear switches. If all rubber domes are “pretty similar” then why enthusiasts spend large amounts of cash collecting bke domes from old topre boards, why bother with Topre at all.
Little things here and there do add up exponentially. I highly recommend trying out undampened creams first before passing judgement.
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 14:37:55
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 19 April 2018, 16:29:42
Undampened creams are my number one tactile choice so I can be picky in comparison.
Post by: rich1051414 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 18:13:28
Different strokes for different folks. I can see your point.I always assumed the point in 'undampened creams' was to approach the feel of orange alps.
Undampened creams are my number one tactile choice so I can be picky in comparison.
Post by: subcat on Thu, 19 April 2018, 19:54:54
Well a major difference is that the more common SKCL Cream and SKCM Cream damped are completely different actuation types - SKCL is linear and SKCM is tactile. The much rarer SKCM Cream also is a bit different from it's dampened counterparts, but if you remove the dampers they are pretty similar.
skcl cream are not common by any means, they're actually rarer than skcm cream
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 20:02:23
The much rarer SKCM Cream also is a bit different from it's dampened counterparts, but if you remove the dampers they are pretty similar.give me a hit of what you were smoking when you came to that conclusion
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 19 April 2018, 21:34:04
Different strokes for different folks. I can see your point.I always assumed the point in 'undampened creams' was to approach the feel of orange alps.
Undampened creams are my number one tactile choice so I can be picky in comparison.
Absolutely not, I think we’re talking about 2 different alps here. I keep saying NEXT undampened since NEXT Non ADB is the easiest way to find them. Besides the NEXT board, you can also find them in Canon typewriter, NEC-PC computer, or HP laptop which dated back as early as 1987.
I believe the ones you’re thinking about are from AEK ll, those are post 1990. They are complete ****, a few in this thread experimented with them before trying to recreate Oranges. But no matter how many times you polish, a turd is still a turd
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 20 April 2018, 09:40:28
(https://i.imgur.com/keorxeR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/79eD0ht.jpg)
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 20 April 2018, 19:00:09
Yep, your right.Different strokes for different folks. I can see your point.I always assumed the point in 'undampened creams' was to approach the feel of orange alps.
Undampened creams are my number one tactile choice so I can be picky in comparison.
Absolutely not, I think we’re talking about 2 different alps here. I keep saying NEXT undampened since NEXT Non ADB is the easiest way to find them. Besides the NEXT board, you can also find them in Canon typewriter, NEC-PC computer, or HP laptop which dated back as early as 1987.
I believe the ones you’re thinking about are from AEK ll, those are post 1990. They are complete ****, a few in this thread experimented with them before trying to recreate Oranges. But no matter how many times you polish, a turd is still a turd
Post by: klennkellon on Tue, 24 April 2018, 15:06:43
Post by: Delirious on Thu, 26 April 2018, 16:26:39
Tragicforce hhkb with skcm ambers
(https://i.imgur.com/DPkS7wm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/binMtEu.jpg)
Post by: romevi on Thu, 26 April 2018, 16:49:10
Repainted my top piece with gloss black.
Tragicforce hhkb with skcm ambersShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/DPkS7wm.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/binMtEu.jpg)
Oh, wow! That looks beautiful. :eek:
Post by: Acereconkeys on Sat, 28 April 2018, 23:03:08
Woo just got an M3501 going to clean/use the caps :) and maybe try to resell the cream dampeneds. Or keep em for some random project who knows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TWg0qES.jpg)
Also the salmons have a 70g peak tactile force and a 65g bottom out force which is about 10g heavier than the oranges. Cherry mx clears have a 65ish gram tactile bump and 95g bottom out force and blacks have an actuation of 60g and a bottom out force of 80g. Salmons should feel comparable to clears on tactility but significantly easier to bottom out.
I'd be interested in the PCB if you are going to toss it anyways.
I have the PCB desoldered if you're still interested in it. Fair warning, I did my best to unbend the pins without lifting the pads but there are a few of the pads that I think got about 1/4 - 1/2 lifted up. Also, I have no idea if this PCB works at all so no promises.
(https://i.imgur.com/lCoLeDM.jpg)
Post by: Dumble_Hub on Sun, 13 May 2018, 11:22:06
Thought yall would like this.
Post by: Acereconkeys on Sun, 13 May 2018, 17:17:58
Show Image(https://i.redd.it/lyia7kefcnx01.jpg)
Thought yall would like this.
Nice board! What switches you got in that beauty?
Post by: kmba on Sun, 13 May 2018, 21:26:33
(https://i.imgur.com/N7pKg11.jpg)
Post by: rich1051414 on Sun, 13 May 2018, 21:30:36
Post by: kmba on Sun, 13 May 2018, 21:50:16
How do brown alps feel compared to orange?
much more tactile, like a mechanical topre. :thumb:
Post by: romevi on Sun, 13 May 2018, 21:54:55
How do brown alps feel compared to orange?
much more tactile, like a mechanical topre. :thumb:
I tried both Orange and Brown. Much prefer Brown. Has a snappy feeling akin to Topre. The Oranges were nice but weren't as poppy. I think it may also have been the plate (acrylic) I used, and maybe the switches themselves needed some lubrication.
Post by: Delirious on Sun, 13 May 2018, 22:04:21
(https://i.imgur.com/KYqXPLn.jpg)
Post by: kakan on Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:03:42
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:05:04
Post by: kakan on Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:34:50
(https://i.imgur.com/l1e3usD.png)
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 14 May 2018, 16:01:51
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/A7ecT7A.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/l1e3usD.png)
Skcm blacks unfortunately. Creams only come in ansi enter board
Post by: kakan on Mon, 14 May 2018, 16:05:25
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/A7ecT7A.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/l1e3usD.png)
Skcm blacks unfortunately. Creams only come in ansi enter board
Cool, thanks for the info!
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 14 May 2018, 16:36:06
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/A7ecT7A.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/l1e3usD.png)
Skcm blacks unfortunately. Creams only come in ansi enter board
Cool, thanks for the info!
The NeXT boards with the 1.75 ansi enter come with SKCM blacks too but at least those have pine tops and are surprisingly not-awful. Throwback to when the NeXT guy on eBay sent me 6 broken keyboards to harvest with SKCM creams.
Post by: kakan on Mon, 14 May 2018, 17:11:06
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/A7ecT7A.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/l1e3usD.png)
Skcm blacks unfortunately. Creams only come in ansi enter board
Cool, thanks for the info!
The NeXT boards with the 1.75 ansi enter come with SKCM blacks too but at least those have pine tops and are surprisingly not-awful. Throwback to when the NeXT guy on eBay sent me 6 broken keyboards to harvest with SKCM creams.
for some, christmas comes more than once a year ;D
Post by: Dumble_Hub on Mon, 14 May 2018, 20:34:04
Show Image(https://i.redd.it/lyia7kefcnx01.jpg)
Thought yall would like this.
Nice board! What switches you got in that beauty?
Blues they feel amazing
Post by: Acereconkeys on Mon, 14 May 2018, 22:48:03
Show Image(https://i.redd.it/lyia7kefcnx01.jpg)
Thought yall would like this.
Nice board! What switches you got in that beauty?
Blues they feel amazing
My man. Love my blues build it's so amazing.
Post by: ptykozoon on Fri, 18 May 2018, 17:28:35
makes no sense to me but to each their own
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 18 May 2018, 21:16:33
Browns are unnecessarily tactile in my opinion. Oranges and NEXT Creams are both better choices.Theres only one switch that went over the edge for me, it was an ivory colored alps clone in a SIIG MiniTouch. The switches almost felt broken and they were NOS... I would probably love brown alps, but I have kind of moved away from tactile due to generally being unimpressed with the tactility compared to clicky. I might need to try a brown alps keyboard.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KYqXPLn.jpg)
Post by: ander on Sat, 19 May 2018, 04:19:15
Just the fact that Alps switches exist—and that, should one own a keeb containing them, this keeb is available for one's direct and visceral pleasure of experiencing and, dare I say it, appreciating said sliderly key technology—is something that should strike joy and gratitude into the hearts of keeb geeks far 'n' wide. And often does, with good reason.
BTW, I hope you'll keep in mind that Alps is the name of the company that produced Alps switches, not the name of the switches themselves.
For this reason, when using the term Alps to refer to any specific examples of Alps switches, please use the more grammatically correct term Alpses. Example:
Incorrect: These Alps feel a bit scratchy. <--[An Alps switch is not an "Alp"]
Correct: These Alpses feel a bit scratchy.
Thanks for your attention. The AA meeting continues!
Post by: Acereconkeys on Sat, 19 May 2018, 18:47:04
Browns are unnecessarily tactile in my opinion. Oranges and NEXT Creams are both better choices.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KYqXPLn.jpg)
Hey what's the bottom board in this photo? I've never seen a layout like that with alps? is it custom?
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 19 May 2018, 19:09:21
Browns are unnecessarily tactile in my opinion. Oranges and NEXT Creams are both better choices.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KYqXPLn.jpg)
Hey what's the bottom board in this photo? I've never seen a layout like that with alps? is it custom?
It’s the Monarch, a small Groupbuy back in 2015
Post by: Acereconkeys on Sat, 19 May 2018, 22:32:59
Post by: Delirious on Sat, 19 May 2018, 22:39:53
What bout the keycaps? Alps blanks?
The caps are from Apple Extended Keyboard, a friend of mine helped me sandblasted the caps. They're dye subbed after all, he also sandblasted some OG doubleshots for me as well.
Post by: waldorf120 on Mon, 21 May 2018, 13:01:11
Alps artisan alert! Just saw on mechmarket that Clackeys (https://www.clackeys.com/products/clackodemon) is selling some Alps artisans based on the Cacodemons from the Doom franchise. They're $50 for painted ones but only $20 for unpainted and they come in both horizontal and vertical Alps mount!
Post by: ag36 on Sun, 03 June 2018, 19:44:21
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 06 June 2018, 09:19:02
Post by: chyros on Wed, 06 June 2018, 09:44:46
Does anyone know the exact weight (not estimate) of a single Alps switch?Which variety? :p I imagine it's different per switch type.
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 06 June 2018, 10:36:29
Does anyone know the exact weight (not estimate) of a single Alps switch?Which variety? :p I imagine it's different per switch type.
Specifically SKCL, but I would imagine SKCM would be nearly identical.
Post by: _ODIN_ on Fri, 15 June 2018, 17:18:42
just a quick question. Which switches does the apple A2S4000 use?
Thanks
Post by: rich1051414 on Fri, 15 June 2018, 19:24:06
Hello guysEither Apple hairpin spring or Alps SKCM Orange, afaik.
just a quick question. Which switches does the apple A2S4000 use?
Thanks
The older apple IIc's had hairpin spring switches, the later ones had skcm orange.
Post by: kakan on Sat, 16 June 2018, 04:43:28
Hello guysEither Apple hairpin spring or Alps SKCM Orange, afaik.
just a quick question. Which switches does the apple A2S4000 use?
Thanks
The older apple IIc's had hairpin spring switches, the later ones had skcm orange.
Some also had amber SKCM switches.
Post by: _ODIN_ on Sat, 16 June 2018, 04:45:23
I saw a good offer on my local ebay but I don’t know which switches are in it :mad:Hello guysEither Apple hairpin spring or Alps SKCM Orange, afaik.
just a quick question. Which switches does the apple A2S4000 use?
Thanks
The older apple IIc's had hairpin spring switches, the later ones had skcm orange.
Some also had amber SKCM switches.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 21 June 2018, 17:37:35
Some of you may remember the NOS Blue Alps keyboard I found a few years ago (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2221455#msg2221455). Orihalcon tried hard to help me with the Soarer's converter but there was nothing but error codes. I messaged the owner of the only other documented K-430 on the internet and he said that he could only get it to work with a certain Compaq computer but once that died, he gave to a collector. Even though this is simply a unique Chicony 5160 variant with arrow keys, there is some charm to its yellowing and status as a 30-year-old NOS keyboard which made it worth the work.
I would love for everyone to check out the buildlog but here is a preview of the end product - The same pictures are in the Imgur album here (https://imgur.com/a/h4ICPmc).
(https://i.imgur.com/aDpdeWL.jpg)
Often regarded among the best keyboard switches ever made, blue Alps were manufactured in the late 1980s by Alps Electric. I started looking for blue Alps switches (about two years ago in the summer of 2016 before prices skyrocketed) and soon found this keyboard on a one-day eBay auction of which, I was the only bidder.
(https://i.imgur.com/EZVhjGg.jpg)
The only record of this mysterious Copam K-430 model on the internet was from a user GH user who got rid of it due to the non-standard protocol. With such little documentation, I wasn't 100 percent sure it actually had blue Alps but took a chance since it was NOS and still in original packaging.
(https://i.imgur.com/EGfDGmw.jpg)
It indeed contained Blue Alps! The keyboard felt great to type on but using my DIN-5 AT/XT Soarer's converter, it yielded nothing but error codes.
(https://i.imgur.com/JjjVbK2.jpg)
After sitting in my closet for almost a year, I decided this yellowed dinosaur was worth teaching myself KiCad in order to design a PCB that supports press-fit TE Connectivity Holtite sockets. Other benefits include full reprogrammability, native USB compatibility and less stress on the delicate switch legs due to the heat that comes with soldering and de-soldering - should I decide to swap them out
(https://i.imgur.com/jjtF7Ht.jpg)
Most modern keyboards follow the widely adopted IBM spacing standard of 0.75” or 19.05mm from center-to-center of each (1 unit) key. The difficult part was determining the spacing from the function keys and numpad area to the middle portion. Really wanted to get it right the first time.
(https://i.imgur.com/FDo0dq1.jpg)
After bit of measuring, I was able to determine the additional spacing of ~9.5mm amounting to the equivalent separation of 1.5 units or 28.575mm.
(https://i.imgur.com/Agb5tRg.jpg)
'Measuring' where the new lock LEDs should be located to line up with the lock light windows.
(Picture for illustrative purposes)
(https://i.imgur.com/gePEJtW.jpg)
The 8134-HC-8Px Holtite connector spec-sheet recommends a mounting hole diameter of 2.08mm ±0.05mm so I had a friend send a prototype PCB to test a few different drill sizes. I settled on 2.00mm, but in retrospect I should have chosen 2.05mm.
(https://i.imgur.com/XfKwfny.jpg)
Using KiCad's Footprint Editor, a footprint was created for each switch using retooled Alps specification sheets from Matias and widening the drill size. The footprints for diodes, resistors and LEDs were taken from the default KiCad library.
(https://i.imgur.com/7fh5kpL.jpg)
For the brain of this project, I selected the PJRC Teensy++ 2.0 as it utilizes the AT90USB1286 chip and has more EEPROM and I/O compared to ATmega32U4 in the Teensy 2.0. The extra pins will be able to accommodate a 5 x 21 matrix rather than something like a 9 x 10.
(https://i.imgur.com/DqcOlvn.jpg)
The first step in KiCad was creating the component schematic in Eeschema. Each switch, diode, and resistor is laid out and routed accordingly. Eeschema is also used for associating the individual component drawings with their corresponding PCB footprints. The resulting .net file will be imported into Pcbnew.
(https://i.imgur.com/JEXkt7t.png)
Importing the .net file from Eeschema will create ratsnest lines that indicate the necessary path of each trace.
(https://i.imgur.com/SujZ6zb.jpg)
In KiCad, custom grid spacing of 19.05mm divided by 8 was used to place each switch and diode footprint. Before I started routing traces, a basic 2D .dxf file was drawn up in AutoCAD then superimposed to double check my switch spacing.
(https://i.imgur.com/kTEvMwm.png)
Provisions were also made so the USB cable would be secured, and Bluetooth could be added in the future. Later, I came across very similar keyboards presumably manufactured by the same Chicony OEM, so additional support was added to accommodate their slightly different bottom rows.
(https://i.imgur.com/QzvRSZI.png)
Very happy with how my manually routed traces came out as the automatic tool was a tad messy. The red traces correspond with the top layer and the green traces correspond with the back layer.
I also knew the Teensy would be removed and reinstalled periodically during testing, so its footprint was modified to use smaller Holtite sockets.
(https://i.imgur.com/slkOunc.jpg)
PCBs arrived, the yellow solder mask was chosen since it seemed more fitting for this retrofit project than something like blue or red.
(https://i.imgur.com/W3PftJT.jpg)
All 89 SMD 1n4148 diodes soldered in and tested with a multimeter to ensure they are all orientated correctly.
(https://i.imgur.com/Hfq5ITz.jpg)
Installation of smaller TE Holtite sockets to make the Teensy++ 2.0 hotswappable.
(https://i.imgur.com/EpdlD0l.jpg)
LED SIP sockets soldered in for the lock lights. I chose these since the LED height inside the case can be adjusted by just clipping the legs.
(https://i.imgur.com/72sLyNt.jpg)
Thankfully there were only three 805 SMD resistors to solder in, I didn’t realize they were so small. Should have chosen a lower resistance than 1k Ohm because the stock LEDs were too dim.
(https://i.imgur.com/3lxrchw.jpg)
I designed the PCB with the possibly of a detachable cable in mind, but it would have required hacking up the case. It was soldered in anyway and later on in the build, this ended up working out.
(https://i.imgur.com/d6fTYue.jpg)
Beginning the socket installation with the number pad area, you can see a few lifted pads. This happened less frequently as time went on.
(https://i.imgur.com/YHzfIXl.jpg)
The heat applied from the soldering iron has discolored the area around the solder pads. They fit very snug and illustrates the main reason why a 2.05mm drill size would have been better choice.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ubr0FQj.jpg)
In preparation to desolder the switches, all keycaps were removed.
(https://i.imgur.com/OlVw0Ej.jpg)
Adding fresh 63-37 rosin core solder to loosen up what had been sitting for nearly 30 years.
(https://i.imgur.com/qwd3QPl.jpg)
The Japanse-made Engineer solder-sucker is very strong and it's great that the silicon tip can touch the iron directly for better suction.
(https://i.imgur.com/gDj0Gaj.jpg)
Desoldering the LEDs
(https://i.imgur.com/5fUHZT9.jpg)
she gone
(https://i.imgur.com/L9LQQ6t.jpg)
All the switch legs have been desoldered so that the original PCB can simply be peeled back and separated.
(https://i.imgur.com/JpNkjYo.jpg)
GREAT SUCCESS!
(https://i.imgur.com/lal6e0t.jpg)
Peeling the PCB back in that manor allows the switches to removed from the rear so the clips aren't damaged.
(https://i.imgur.com/3RLRsMU.jpg)
Test fit. The original PCB had only one side etched with small pieces of wire used to jump traces. Highlighted are the screw holes I did not notice during the design phase and needed to be drilled out to help secure the plate to the PCB.
(https://i.imgur.com/pzAVhBY.jpg)
The two screw holes were done with a hand drill. Luckily there were no traces running through those locations.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0XLYgj.jpg)
This took forever.
(https://i.imgur.com/ugAqgsI.jpg)
Pressing in the TE holtite sockets using a soldering iron. I found that using a conical, B-shape tip that is set to around 275º C in short periods can help any prevent pads from lifting.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAffJOH.jpg)
At this point, everything was assembled with the plate screwed to the pcb, switches installed and sockets pressed into place. The lifted traces were easily fixed by bridging the columns with some wire.
(https://i.imgur.com/OKf4fl5.png)
Building the TMK firmware. In these two pictures we are defining the rows, columns, and their corresponding I/O pins on the Teensy.
(https://i.imgur.com/kSQKgeJ.png)
When a switch is pressed, this diode matrix will tell the controller of the input location using coordinates of the two electrical signals.
(https://i.imgur.com/0QNnQJR.png)
Defining the keymap and function layers using the designated TMK keycodes. For me, the ability to remap each key is the biggest benefit of this retrofit. The ACTION_LAYER_TAP_KEY allows the down arrow key to act normally when tapped, but accesses the function layer when held.
(https://i.imgur.com/o8xi9NC.png)
Writing the code for the lock LEDs was the most frustrating part of this entire process. Both the switch matrix and keymap worked flawlessly after flashing the first .hex file though it took many more tries before the LEDs behaved as desired. Commented out at the bottom is the function written to keep the lock LEDs from turning on while the computer is in sleep mode.
(https://i.imgur.com/9ZmfDlO.jpg)
It’s alive! Each component now sits in its rightful place and functions as it should. I used it as pictured for a few days and boxed it up. Using a generic black USB cable while I had the hefty original coiled cable sitting around started to bother me.
(https://i.imgur.com/bzwg6Sl.jpg)
After a few months, I decided to finish this project up for good. The internal connector was cut off and each wire was soldered to the corresponding wire of the USB cable then heatshrinked.
(https://i.imgur.com/KxmpFeW.jpg)
This project box with a panel mount 5-pin AT/XT socket allows the use of the original connector and passively changes the interface, not the protocol. It usually sits out of sight behind my computer.
(https://i.imgur.com/A0SgVMr.jpg)
There is a plastic trim piece that covered the large hole where original cable connector had to fit through the case. Its clip broke when I initially took it apart but the mini-USB just happens to keep the piece perfectly in place.
(https://i.imgur.com/XDEHejs.jpg)
In order to flash the .hex file, there is a reset button on the Teensy that puts it into bootloader mode. What didn't occur to me, was that once the top is screwed on, the button would no longer be accessible. I wired this switch (that was originally intended for Bluetooth) to the reset pin on the Teensy.
(https://i.imgur.com/5ElkA6y.jpg)
The goal was always to modify this keyboard as little as possible. A discreet hole was made under one of the case feet to access the external reset switch for flashing new keymaps.
(https://i.imgur.com/ATJNWP4.jpg)
The switch feel of Blue Alps can truly be appreciated now that the keyboard is operational. Though, the inability to remap backspace to where the backslash sits on a normal ANSI board is a bummer and I'm not yet sure if I prefer them to SKCM Amber. Regardless, it was very rewarding to see this project through and save a rather unique board which others would have certainly harvested the switches from then discarded. Big thanks to the community members that checked my PCB schematic and I hope you enjoyed the read!
I would love for everyone to check out the buildlog but here is a preview of the end product - The same pictures are in the Imgur album here (https://imgur.com/a/h4ICPmc).
More
(https://i.imgur.com/aDpdeWL.jpg)
Often regarded among the best keyboard switches ever made, blue Alps were manufactured in the late 1980s by Alps Electric. I started looking for blue Alps switches (about two years ago in the summer of 2016 before prices skyrocketed) and soon found this keyboard on a one-day eBay auction of which, I was the only bidder.
(https://i.imgur.com/EZVhjGg.jpg)
The only record of this mysterious Copam K-430 model on the internet was from a user GH user who got rid of it due to the non-standard protocol. With such little documentation, I wasn't 100 percent sure it actually had blue Alps but took a chance since it was NOS and still in original packaging.
(https://i.imgur.com/EGfDGmw.jpg)
It indeed contained Blue Alps! The keyboard felt great to type on but using my DIN-5 AT/XT Soarer's converter, it yielded nothing but error codes.
(https://i.imgur.com/JjjVbK2.jpg)
After sitting in my closet for almost a year, I decided this yellowed dinosaur was worth teaching myself KiCad in order to design a PCB that supports press-fit TE Connectivity Holtite sockets. Other benefits include full reprogrammability, native USB compatibility and less stress on the delicate switch legs due to the heat that comes with soldering and de-soldering - should I decide to swap them out
(https://i.imgur.com/jjtF7Ht.jpg)
Most modern keyboards follow the widely adopted IBM spacing standard of 0.75” or 19.05mm from center-to-center of each (1 unit) key. The difficult part was determining the spacing from the function keys and numpad area to the middle portion. Really wanted to get it right the first time.
(https://i.imgur.com/FDo0dq1.jpg)
After bit of measuring, I was able to determine the additional spacing of ~9.5mm amounting to the equivalent separation of 1.5 units or 28.575mm.
(https://i.imgur.com/Agb5tRg.jpg)
'Measuring' where the new lock LEDs should be located to line up with the lock light windows.
(Picture for illustrative purposes)
(https://i.imgur.com/gePEJtW.jpg)
The 8134-HC-8Px Holtite connector spec-sheet recommends a mounting hole diameter of 2.08mm ±0.05mm so I had a friend send a prototype PCB to test a few different drill sizes. I settled on 2.00mm, but in retrospect I should have chosen 2.05mm.
(https://i.imgur.com/XfKwfny.jpg)
Using KiCad's Footprint Editor, a footprint was created for each switch using retooled Alps specification sheets from Matias and widening the drill size. The footprints for diodes, resistors and LEDs were taken from the default KiCad library.
(https://i.imgur.com/7fh5kpL.jpg)
For the brain of this project, I selected the PJRC Teensy++ 2.0 as it utilizes the AT90USB1286 chip and has more EEPROM and I/O compared to ATmega32U4 in the Teensy 2.0. The extra pins will be able to accommodate a 5 x 21 matrix rather than something like a 9 x 10.
(https://i.imgur.com/DqcOlvn.jpg)
The first step in KiCad was creating the component schematic in Eeschema. Each switch, diode, and resistor is laid out and routed accordingly. Eeschema is also used for associating the individual component drawings with their corresponding PCB footprints. The resulting .net file will be imported into Pcbnew.
(https://i.imgur.com/JEXkt7t.png)
Importing the .net file from Eeschema will create ratsnest lines that indicate the necessary path of each trace.
(https://i.imgur.com/SujZ6zb.jpg)
In KiCad, custom grid spacing of 19.05mm divided by 8 was used to place each switch and diode footprint. Before I started routing traces, a basic 2D .dxf file was drawn up in AutoCAD then superimposed to double check my switch spacing.
(https://i.imgur.com/kTEvMwm.png)
Provisions were also made so the USB cable would be secured, and Bluetooth could be added in the future. Later, I came across very similar keyboards presumably manufactured by the same Chicony OEM, so additional support was added to accommodate their slightly different bottom rows.
(https://i.imgur.com/QzvRSZI.png)
Very happy with how my manually routed traces came out as the automatic tool was a tad messy. The red traces correspond with the top layer and the green traces correspond with the back layer.
I also knew the Teensy would be removed and reinstalled periodically during testing, so its footprint was modified to use smaller Holtite sockets.
(https://i.imgur.com/slkOunc.jpg)
PCBs arrived, the yellow solder mask was chosen since it seemed more fitting for this retrofit project than something like blue or red.
(https://i.imgur.com/W3PftJT.jpg)
All 89 SMD 1n4148 diodes soldered in and tested with a multimeter to ensure they are all orientated correctly.
(https://i.imgur.com/Hfq5ITz.jpg)
Installation of smaller TE Holtite sockets to make the Teensy++ 2.0 hotswappable.
(https://i.imgur.com/EpdlD0l.jpg)
LED SIP sockets soldered in for the lock lights. I chose these since the LED height inside the case can be adjusted by just clipping the legs.
(https://i.imgur.com/72sLyNt.jpg)
Thankfully there were only three 805 SMD resistors to solder in, I didn’t realize they were so small. Should have chosen a lower resistance than 1k Ohm because the stock LEDs were too dim.
(https://i.imgur.com/3lxrchw.jpg)
I designed the PCB with the possibly of a detachable cable in mind, but it would have required hacking up the case. It was soldered in anyway and later on in the build, this ended up working out.
(https://i.imgur.com/d6fTYue.jpg)
Beginning the socket installation with the number pad area, you can see a few lifted pads. This happened less frequently as time went on.
(https://i.imgur.com/YHzfIXl.jpg)
The heat applied from the soldering iron has discolored the area around the solder pads. They fit very snug and illustrates the main reason why a 2.05mm drill size would have been better choice.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ubr0FQj.jpg)
In preparation to desolder the switches, all keycaps were removed.
(https://i.imgur.com/OlVw0Ej.jpg)
Adding fresh 63-37 rosin core solder to loosen up what had been sitting for nearly 30 years.
(https://i.imgur.com/qwd3QPl.jpg)
The Japanse-made Engineer solder-sucker is very strong and it's great that the silicon tip can touch the iron directly for better suction.
(https://i.imgur.com/gDj0Gaj.jpg)
Desoldering the LEDs
(https://i.imgur.com/5fUHZT9.jpg)
she gone
(https://i.imgur.com/L9LQQ6t.jpg)
All the switch legs have been desoldered so that the original PCB can simply be peeled back and separated.
(https://i.imgur.com/JpNkjYo.jpg)
GREAT SUCCESS!
(https://i.imgur.com/lal6e0t.jpg)
Peeling the PCB back in that manor allows the switches to removed from the rear so the clips aren't damaged.
(https://i.imgur.com/3RLRsMU.jpg)
Test fit. The original PCB had only one side etched with small pieces of wire used to jump traces. Highlighted are the screw holes I did not notice during the design phase and needed to be drilled out to help secure the plate to the PCB.
(https://i.imgur.com/pzAVhBY.jpg)
The two screw holes were done with a hand drill. Luckily there were no traces running through those locations.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0XLYgj.jpg)
This took forever.
(https://i.imgur.com/ugAqgsI.jpg)
Pressing in the TE holtite sockets using a soldering iron. I found that using a conical, B-shape tip that is set to around 275º C in short periods can help any prevent pads from lifting.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAffJOH.jpg)
At this point, everything was assembled with the plate screwed to the pcb, switches installed and sockets pressed into place. The lifted traces were easily fixed by bridging the columns with some wire.
(https://i.imgur.com/OKf4fl5.png)
Building the TMK firmware. In these two pictures we are defining the rows, columns, and their corresponding I/O pins on the Teensy.
(https://i.imgur.com/kSQKgeJ.png)
When a switch is pressed, this diode matrix will tell the controller of the input location using coordinates of the two electrical signals.
(https://i.imgur.com/0QNnQJR.png)
Defining the keymap and function layers using the designated TMK keycodes. For me, the ability to remap each key is the biggest benefit of this retrofit. The ACTION_LAYER_TAP_KEY allows the down arrow key to act normally when tapped, but accesses the function layer when held.
(https://i.imgur.com/o8xi9NC.png)
Writing the code for the lock LEDs was the most frustrating part of this entire process. Both the switch matrix and keymap worked flawlessly after flashing the first .hex file though it took many more tries before the LEDs behaved as desired. Commented out at the bottom is the function written to keep the lock LEDs from turning on while the computer is in sleep mode.
(https://i.imgur.com/9ZmfDlO.jpg)
It’s alive! Each component now sits in its rightful place and functions as it should. I used it as pictured for a few days and boxed it up. Using a generic black USB cable while I had the hefty original coiled cable sitting around started to bother me.
(https://i.imgur.com/bzwg6Sl.jpg)
After a few months, I decided to finish this project up for good. The internal connector was cut off and each wire was soldered to the corresponding wire of the USB cable then heatshrinked.
(https://i.imgur.com/KxmpFeW.jpg)
This project box with a panel mount 5-pin AT/XT socket allows the use of the original connector and passively changes the interface, not the protocol. It usually sits out of sight behind my computer.
(https://i.imgur.com/A0SgVMr.jpg)
There is a plastic trim piece that covered the large hole where original cable connector had to fit through the case. Its clip broke when I initially took it apart but the mini-USB just happens to keep the piece perfectly in place.
(https://i.imgur.com/XDEHejs.jpg)
In order to flash the .hex file, there is a reset button on the Teensy that puts it into bootloader mode. What didn't occur to me, was that once the top is screwed on, the button would no longer be accessible. I wired this switch (that was originally intended for Bluetooth) to the reset pin on the Teensy.
(https://i.imgur.com/5ElkA6y.jpg)
The goal was always to modify this keyboard as little as possible. A discreet hole was made under one of the case feet to access the external reset switch for flashing new keymaps.
(https://i.imgur.com/ATJNWP4.jpg)
The switch feel of Blue Alps can truly be appreciated now that the keyboard is operational. Though, the inability to remap backspace to where the backslash sits on a normal ANSI board is a bummer and I'm not yet sure if I prefer them to SKCM Amber. Regardless, it was very rewarding to see this project through and save a rather unique board which others would have certainly harvested the switches from then discarded. Big thanks to the community members that checked my PCB schematic and I hope you enjoyed the read!
Post by: romevi on Thu, 21 June 2018, 18:15:15
Post by: Acereconkeys on Thu, 21 June 2018, 21:16:57
Some of you may remember the NOS Blue Alps keyboard I found a few years ago (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2221455#msg2221455). Orihalcon tried hard to help me with the Soarer's converter but there was nothing but error codes. I messaged the owner of the only other documented K-430 on the internet and he said that he could only get it to work with a certain Compaq computer but once that died, he gave to a collector. Even though this is simply a unique Chicony 5160 variant with arrow keys, there is some charm to its yellowing and status as a 30-year-old NOS keyboard which made it worth the work.
I would love for everyone to check out the buildlog but here is a preview of the end product - The same pictures are in the Imgur album here (https://imgur.com/a/h4ICPmc).MoreShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/aDpdeWL.jpg)
Often regarded among the best keyboard switches ever made, blue Alps were manufactured in the late 1980s by Alps Electric. I started looking for blue Alps switches (about two years ago in the summer of 2016 before prices skyrocketed) and soon found this keyboard on a one-day eBay auction of which, I was the only bidder.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EZVhjGg.jpg)
The only record of this mysterious Copam K-430 model on the internet was from a user GH user who got rid of it due to the non-standard protocol. With such little documentation, I wasn't 100 percent sure it actually had blue Alps but took a chance since it was NOS and still in original packaging.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EGfDGmw.jpg)
It indeed contained Blue Alps! The keyboard felt great to type on but using my DIN-5 AT/XT Soarer's converter, it yielded nothing but error codes.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/JjjVbK2.jpg)
After sitting in my closet for almost a year, I decided this yellowed dinosaur was worth teaching myself KiCad in order to design a PCB that supports press-fit TE Connectivity Holtite sockets. Other benefits include full reprogrammability, native USB compatibility and less stress on the delicate switch legs due to the heat that comes with soldering and de-soldering - should I decide to swap them outShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/jjtF7Ht.jpg)
Most modern keyboards follow the widely adopted IBM spacing standard of 0.75” or 19.05mm from center-to-center of each (1 unit) key. The difficult part was determining the spacing from the function keys and numpad area to the middle portion. Really wanted to get it right the first time.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FDo0dq1.jpg)
After bit of measuring, I was able to determine the additional spacing of ~9.5mm amounting to the equivalent separation of 1.5 units or 28.575mm.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Agb5tRg.jpg)
'Measuring' where the new lock LEDs should be located to line up with the lock light windows.
(Picture for illustrative purposes)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/gePEJtW.jpg)
The 8134-HC-8Px Holtite connector spec-sheet recommends a mounting hole diameter of 2.08mm ±0.05mm so I had a friend send a prototype PCB to test a few different drill sizes. I settled on 2.00mm, but in retrospect I should have chosen 2.05mm.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/XfKwfny.jpg)
Using KiCad's Footprint Editor, a footprint was created for each switch using retooled Alps specification sheets from Matias and widening the drill size. The footprints for diodes, resistors and LEDs were taken from the default KiCad library.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/7fh5kpL.jpg)
For the brain of this project, I selected the PJRC Teensy++ 2.0 as it utilizes the AT90USB1286 chip and has more EEPROM and I/O compared to ATmega32U4 in the Teensy 2.0. The extra pins will be able to accommodate a 5 x 21 matrix rather than something like a 9 x 10.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/DqcOlvn.jpg)
The first step in KiCad was creating the component schematic in Eeschema. Each switch, diode, and resistor is laid out and routed accordingly. Eeschema is also used for associating the individual component drawings with their corresponding PCB footprints. The resulting .net file will be imported into Pcbnew.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/JEXkt7t.png)
Importing the .net file from Eeschema will create ratsnest lines that indicate the necessary path of each trace.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/SujZ6zb.jpg)
In KiCad, custom grid spacing of 19.05mm divided by 8 was used to place each switch and diode footprint. Before I started routing traces, a basic 2D .dxf file was drawn up in AutoCAD then superimposed to double check my switch spacing.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/kTEvMwm.png)
Provisions were also made so the USB cable would be secured, and Bluetooth could be added in the future. Later, I came across very similar keyboards presumably manufactured by the same Chicony OEM, so additional support was added to accommodate their slightly different bottom rows.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/QzvRSZI.png)
Very happy with how my manually routed traces came out as the automatic tool was a tad messy. The red traces correspond with the top layer and the green traces correspond with the back layer.
I also knew the Teensy would be removed and reinstalled periodically during testing, so its footprint was modified to use smaller Holtite sockets.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/slkOunc.jpg)
PCBs arrived, the yellow solder mask was chosen since it seemed more fitting for this retrofit project than something like blue or red.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/W3PftJT.jpg)
All 89 SMD 1n4148 diodes soldered in and tested with a multimeter to ensure they are all orientated correctly.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Hfq5ITz.jpg)
Installation of smaller TE Holtite sockets to make the Teensy++ 2.0 hotswappable.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EpdlD0l.jpg)
LED SIP sockets soldered in for the lock lights. I chose these since the LED height inside the case can be adjusted by just clipping the legs.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/72sLyNt.jpg)
Thankfully there were only three 805 SMD resistors to solder in, I didn’t realize they were so small. Should have chosen a lower resistance than 1k Ohm because the stock LEDs were too dim.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/3lxrchw.jpg)
I designed the PCB with the possibly of a detachable cable in mind, but it would have required hacking up the case. It was soldered in anyway and later on in the build, this ended up working out.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ugAqgsI.jpg)
Pressing in the TE holtite sockets using a soldering iron. I found that using a conical, B-shape tip that is set to around 275º C in short periods can help any prevent pads from lifting.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/d6fTYue.jpg)
Beginning the socket installation with the number pad area, you can see a few lifted pads. This happened less frequently as time went on.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/YHzfIXl.jpg)
The heat applied from the soldering iron has discolored the area around the solder pads. They fit very snug and illustrates the main reason why a 2.05mm drill size would have been better choice.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Ubr0FQj.jpg)
In preparation to desolder the switches, all keycaps were removed.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OlVw0Ej.jpg)
Adding fresh 63-37 rosin core solder to loosen up what had been sitting for nearly 30 years.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qwd3QPl.jpg)
The Japanse-made Engineer solder-sucker is very strong and it's great that the silicon tip can touch the iron directly for better suction.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/gDj0Gaj.jpg)
Desoldering the LEDsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/5fUHZT9.jpg)
she goneShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/L9LQQ6t.jpg)
All the switch legs have been desoldered so that the original PCB can simply be peeled back and separated.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/JpNkjYo.jpg)
GREAT SUCCESS!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/lal6e0t.jpg)
Peeling the PCB back in that manor allows the switches to removed from the rear so the clips aren't damaged.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/3RLRsMU.jpg)
Test fit. The original PCB had only one side etched with small pieces of wire used to jump traces. Highlighted are the screw holes I did not notice during the design phase and needed to be drilled out to help secure the plate to the PCB.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/pzAVhBY.jpg)
The two screw holes were done with a hand drill. Luckily there were no traces running through those locations.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Q0XLYgj.jpg)
This took forever.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KAffJOH.jpg)
At this point, everything was assembled with the plate screwed in and socket installation finished. The lifted traces were easily fixed by bridging the columns with some wire.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OKf4fl5.png)
Building the TMK firmware. In these two pictures we are defining the rows, columns, and their corresponding I/O pins on the Teensy.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/kSQKgeJ.png)
When a switch is pressed, this diode matrix will tell the controller of the input location using coordinates of the two electrical signals.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0QNnQJR.png)
Defining the keymap and function layers using the designated TMK keycodes. For me, the ability to remap each key is the biggest benefit of this retrofit. The ACTION_LAYER_TAP_KEY allows the down arrow key to act normally when tapped, but accesses the function layer when held.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/o8xi9NC.png)
Writing the code for the lock LEDs was the most frustrating part of this entire process. Both the switch matrix and keymap worked flawlessly after flashing the first .hex file though it took many more tries before the LEDs behaved as desired. Commented out at the bottom is the function written to keep the lock LEDs from turning on while the computer is in sleep mode.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/9ZmfDlO.jpg)
It’s alive! Each component now sits in its rightful place and functions as it should. I used it as pictured for a few days and boxed it up. Using a generic black USB cable while I had the hefty original coiled cable sitting around started to bother me.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/bzwg6Sl.jpg)
After a few months, I decided to finish this project up for good. The internal connector was cut off and each wire was soldered to the corresponding wire of the USB cable then heatshrinked.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KxmpFeW.jpg)
This project box with a panel mount 5-pin AT/XT socket allows the use of the original connector and passively changes the interface, not the protocol. It usually sits out of sight behind my computer.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/A0SgVMr.jpg)
There is a plastic trim piece that covered the large hole where original cable connector had to fit through the case. Its clip broke when I initially took it apart but the mini-USB just happens to keep the piece perfectly in place.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/XDEHejs.jpg)
In order to flash the .hex file, there is a reset button on the Teensy that puts it into bootloader mode. What didn't occur to me, was that once the top is screwed on, the button would no longer be accessible. I wired this switch (that was originally intended for Bluetooth) to the reset pin on the Teensy.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5ElkA6y.jpg)
The goal was always to modify this keyboard as little as possible. A discreet hole was made under one of the case feet to access the external reset switch for flashing new keymaps.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ATJNWP4.jpg)
The switch feel of Blue Alps can truly be appreciated now that the keyboard is operational. Though, the inability to remap backspace to where the backslash sits on a normal ANSI board is a bummer and I'm not yet sure if I prefer them to SKCM Amber. Regardless, it was very rewarding to see this project through and save a rather unique board which others would have certainly harvested the switches from then discarded. Big thanks to the community members that checked my PCB schematic and I hope you enjoyed the read!
What an absolutely beautiful board. Great layout and it's awesome you chose to keep it all together instead of tearing the switches out.
Nice job!
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Sat, 25 August 2018, 17:39:52
Right now I'm trying out (skcm) Cream Damped vs Cream Un-Damped vs Linearized Cream Damped vs Linearized Cream Un-Damped
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Sat, 25 August 2018, 22:49:22
F8 - Cream Undamped - The sound and bottom out feel is very similar to SKCM Black but the tactility is essentially the same
F9 - Linearized Cream Damped - very quiet - the familiar smack of the cream damped upstroke is greatly reduced
F10 - Linearized Cream Undamped - plenty of clack on the down and uptstroke
F11 - Click Modded Cream Damped - click on the downstroke, smack of the damped upstroke (as a fan of clickies, this one is my favorite)
F12 - Click Modded Cream Undamped - loud click and bottom out
Its nice to have a switch that is so easily modified to various sounds and feels. I'm not sure which variation I'd prefer to use on a whole board but leaning toward linear undamped or clicky damped(decided on this). I love the chatter. I definitely can see why the click mod is most popular with this switch, though.
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 08 September 2018, 14:55:17
Post by: NBAPwns13 on Wed, 19 September 2018, 13:18:44
I noticed a small tiny micro scratch on the slider. Could it be that this is the problem? I haven't lubed my switches yet but i plan to and i ordered some dry lube on amazon. Is there a fix to this? so far i can't find any solution and when turning over the slider to its flat side facing the switch plate, the sound is gone but i heard that's not the orientation its suppose to be and i notice that it feels more heavier and uneven compared to how its suppose to be oriented. Any help is appreciated! Thanks
Here is the picture album of the slider itself - https://imgur.com/a/tNnT0uo
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 19 September 2018, 17:08:02
Hey guys, New to this forum, and just discovered alp switches. While cleaning my AEK i noticed that 1 switch was making clicky sounds instead of the normal orange alp sounds. I came to the conclusion that the slider is the problem. I tried switching the tactile leaf, housing, and spring, but once i changed the slider everything came back to normal.
I noticed a small tiny micro scratch on the slider. Could it be that this is the problem? I haven't lubed my switches yet but i plan to and i ordered some dry lube on amazon. Is there a fix to this? so far i can't find any solution and when turning over the slider to its flat side facing the switch plate, the sound is gone but i heard that's not the orientation its suppose to be and i notice that it feels more heavier and uneven compared to how its suppose to be oriented. Any help is appreciated! Thanks
Here is the picture album of the slider itself - https://imgur.com/a/tNnT0uo
I think your problem is the spring isn't right on the nub at the bottom center of the housing. Try re-assembling them more carefully and make sure the spring isn't deformed.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 19 September 2018, 17:50:35
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
(https://deskthority.net/resources/image/48900)
(https://deskthority.net/resources/image/48899)
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 02 October 2018, 14:39:07
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97570.msg2665323#msg2665323
Post by: nevin on Tue, 02 October 2018, 14:49:14
Post by: babyfeets on Sun, 14 October 2018, 07:31:04
https://i.imgur.com/jeRaJqa.jpg
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 October 2018, 08:40:53
If anybody has a microscope and a Focus FK-xxxx, I would send you $5 for a pic of the logo on the pcb. My pic is too low res to restore and vectorize and I threw out the pcb ages ago.Here's a picture from an FK-8000 in 5184p. No payment is needed :) . But please post a picture of the logo once you've vectorised it, someone might find it useful at some point :) .
https://i.imgur.com/jeRaJqa.jpg
More
(https://i.imgur.com/BXJBzq2.jpg)
Post by: babyfeets on Sun, 14 October 2018, 09:20:20
Post by: babyfeets on Sun, 14 October 2018, 14:33:16
Post by: chyros on Sun, 14 October 2018, 16:21:38
Post by: nevin on Sun, 14 October 2018, 20:25:34
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dMrDWMD2rE821130LSUgHnweH3yeHRrg?usp=sharing
[attach=1]
Post by: chyros on Mon, 15 October 2018, 00:35:28
Post by: nevin on Mon, 15 October 2018, 02:27:59
Noice, thanks! :)
why is everybody out of ice lately? :))
Post by: sharkka on Sat, 03 November 2018, 02:36:40
Post by: monteyalps on Sat, 03 November 2018, 14:16:01
(https://i.imgur.com/rZY4CS1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GXDff6N.jpg)
Also put most of the doubleshots from the KB-5181 on the Minitouch. Feels 10x better being that my only complaint with this board was the keycaps. The KB-5181 has monterey blues and the Minitouch has ivory whites (everyone hates them but I ****ing love them, but not as much as the montereys).
Post by: LightningXI on Sun, 04 November 2018, 04:04:59
My NIB Minitouch and KB-5181 together looking like father and son :))Mmmmm Monterey Blues are great..Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/rZY4CS1.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GXDff6N.jpg)
Also put most of the doubleshots from the KB-5181 on the Minitouch. Feels 10x better being that my only complaint with this board was the keycaps. The KB-5181 has monterey blues and the Minitouch has ivory whites (everyone hates them but I ****ing love them, but not as much as the montereys).
Sent from my mobile using Tapatalk
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Fri, 04 January 2019, 13:32:20
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=98801.msg2700733
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 04 January 2019, 16:47:11
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Mon, 07 January 2019, 10:09:40
Post by: PerniciousPony on Mon, 07 January 2019, 10:22:28
Built with monterey blues and a few mx mount smk white's for artisans.
(https://i.imgur.com/h00cJ4K.jpg)
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 07 January 2019, 10:35:37
Post by: chyros on Mon, 07 January 2019, 13:19:36
Picked up my first blue alps board today on eBay. Can’t wait to get my fingers on it. :)Noice! Which model did you get? :)
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 07 January 2019, 13:38:58
Picked up my first blue alps board today on eBay. Can’t wait to get my fingers on it. :)Noice! Which model did you get? :)
It’s a leading edge DC-2104
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 07 January 2019, 17:25:11
How come hardly here is interested in Alps switches anymore?
There are folks who appreciate Alps -- it's just that people haven't ventured enough to post on here.
Alps are still quite popular.
Some setups I've done before or have now.
(https://i.imgur.com/UFx52om.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ucfOuJk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JbAzifW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0K5GfXt.jpg)
Post by: macclack on Mon, 07 January 2019, 17:37:42
How come hardly here is interested in Alps switches anymore?
There are folks who appreciate Alps -- it's just that people haven't ventured enough to post on here.
Alps are still quite popular.
Some setups I've done before or have now.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UFx52om.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ucfOuJk.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/JbAzifW.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0K5GfXt.jpg)
Agreed. A lot of us are lurkers or just use old Alps boards with no modifications, etc (I fall into both categories). Is that first board a Revo One? That thing is gorgeous.
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 07 January 2019, 17:40:02
Is that first board a Revo One? That thing is gorgeous.
Yes, it is! Revo One with the Hasu64 PCB and built in the AEK ANSI layout with SKCM Salmons. As far as a tray-mount case goes, it's a gorgeous white, and I got lucky with a very clean enamel finish on it.
Post by: ArchDill on Mon, 07 January 2019, 17:42:31
How come hardly here is interested in Alps switches anymore?
There are folks who appreciate Alps -- it's just that people haven't ventured enough to post on here.
Alps are still quite popular.
Some setups I've done before or have now.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UFx52om.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ucfOuJk.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/JbAzifW.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/0K5GfXt.jpg)
I have always wanted to try Alps but layout options have prohibited me from it.
I had NO IDEA that you could do a split right shift. Is split right shift and split BS possible? If so, how hard would it be to find the keycaps?
Post by: macclack on Mon, 07 January 2019, 17:43:56
Here's my SMK Clueboard ;D
Built with monterey blues and a few mx mount smk white's for artisans.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/h00cJ4K.jpg)
This is so great. Always loved the OG orange one. Really makes me want to convert my Clueboard over to Alps.
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 07 January 2019, 17:46:02
I have always wanted to try Alps but layout options have prohibited me from it.
I had NO IDEA that you could do a split right shift. Is split right shift and split BS possible? If so, how hard would it be to find the keycaps?
Ask around, split right shift is indeed doable and there's sets from which you can gather the smaller keys.
In general, though, if you want to do ANSI and split versions of long keys, you'll have to do a mix-and-match from a couple of sets. Shouldn't be terribly hard, but I understand that it's a hassle.
Split backspace could be doable as well, but you will have to settle with having incongruent legends, however.
Post by: PerniciousPony on Mon, 07 January 2019, 17:48:28
Here's my SMK Clueboard ;D
Built with monterey blues and a few mx mount smk white's for artisans.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/h00cJ4K.jpg)
This is so great. Always loved the OG orange one. Really makes me want to convert my Clueboard over to Alps.
Unfortunately, you can’t use SKCM/SKCL Alps with the aluminum clueboards as they are technically only mx compatible. The reason I was able to use SMK switches is because they utilize the same plate cutout as mx switches. Additionally, DCS keycaps use mx stabilizers which allowed me to use cherry PCB mount stabs which is what the board natively supports. As far as I know, it isn’t possible to get any other stabilizers to work with this board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: macclack on Mon, 07 January 2019, 18:09:10
Here's my SMK Clueboard ;D
Built with monterey blues and a few mx mount smk white's for artisans.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/h00cJ4K.jpg)
This is so great. Always loved the OG orange one. Really makes me want to convert my Clueboard over to Alps.
Unfortunately, you can’t use SKCM/SKCL Alps with the aluminum clueboards as they are technically only mx compatible. The reason I was able to use SMK switches is because they utilize the same plate cutout as mx switches. Additionally, DCS keycaps use mx stabilizers which allowed me to use cherry PCB mount stabs which is what the board natively supports. As far as I know, it isn’t possible to get any other stabilizers to work with this board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OK that's right. I think the PCB supports Alps, but the plate doesn't, correct?
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Mon, 07 January 2019, 18:34:27
A lot of us are lurkers or just use old Alps boards with no modifications, etc (I fall into both categories).Glad to hear someone here isn't hacking up or (unsustainably) harvesting vintage keyboards.
Post by: PerniciousPony on Mon, 07 January 2019, 18:36:44
The PCB does support alps, but only SKCM/SKCL. The pcb doesn’t support SMK, I bent the pins into the holes on the PCBHere's my SMK Clueboard ;D
Built with monterey blues and a few mx mount smk white's for artisans.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/h00cJ4K.jpg)
This is so great. Always loved the OG orange one. Really makes me want to convert my Clueboard over to Alps.
Unfortunately, you can’t use SKCM/SKCL Alps with the aluminum clueboards as they are technically only mx compatible. The reason I was able to use SMK switches is because they utilize the same plate cutout as mx switches. Additionally, DCS keycaps use mx stabilizers which allowed me to use cherry PCB mount stabs which is what the board natively supports. As far as I know, it isn’t possible to get any other stabilizers to work with this board.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OK that's right. I think the PCB supports Alps, but the plate doesn't, correct?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: macclack on Mon, 07 January 2019, 18:52:48
A lot of us are lurkers or just use old Alps boards with no modifications, etc (I fall into both categories).Glad to hear someone here isn't hacking up or (unsustainably) harvesting vintage keyboards.
Yeah, I just can't bring myself to disassemble a vintage Alps keyboard. It feels a bit wrong.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Mon, 07 January 2019, 20:31:16
A lot of us are lurkers or just use old Alps boards with no modifications, etc (I fall into both categories).Glad to hear someone here isn't hacking up or (unsustainably) harvesting vintage keyboards.
Yeah, I just can't bring myself to disassemble a vintage Alps keyboard. It feels a bit wrong.
Thank you!
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 07 January 2019, 21:06:27
A lot of us are lurkers or just use old Alps boards with no modifications, etc (I fall into both categories).Glad to hear someone here isn't hacking up or (unsustainably) harvesting vintage keyboards.
Yeah, I just can't bring myself to disassemble a vintage Alps keyboard. It feels a bit wrong.
Thank you!
I cut a new old stock Ortek board down to make a 60% build from it. Didn’t feel bad because it was pretty **** for quality. But yeah, nice solid boards should be respected for their purposeful beauty
https://imgur.com/gallery/8sS6M
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 January 2019, 08:53:20
nice solid boards should be respected for their purposeful beauty
I am not averse to scavenging or altering common boards like Apples and Dells.
Post by: Gati on Tue, 08 January 2019, 14:12:38
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Tue, 08 January 2019, 16:58:51
nice solid boards should be respected for their purposeful beauty
I am not averse to scavenging or altering common boards like Apples and Dells.
I have never seen any AEK or Dell AT101W in active service in my life. (Except of course, the refurbished ones I've sold/given away to people)
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 09 January 2019, 17:26:48
I have never seen any AEK or Dell AT101W in active service in my life. (Except of course, the refurbished ones I've sold/given away to people)
True, I have not seen a strange one in use in at least a decade, but they used to appear in salvage and thrift stores from time to time. Nor I have not seen any there for a few years.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 11 January 2019, 08:48:45
Sweet, smooth greens. I think it's a looker:
[attachimg=1]
Will update when it gets here.
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 11 January 2019, 13:31:14
Got a big one, boys. First time I've had a seller actually work with me with some good counter-offers. Glad some people still know how to make deals.
Sweet, smooth greens. I think it's a looker:
(Attachment Link)
Will update when it gets here.
OOh that is a good one! You got a switch pic from the seller? I've seen these with vintage blacks (AT) and SKCM Blue too. If the board is in as good condition as the box, those switches should be awesome:D
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 14 January 2019, 11:46:42
If I put it in XT mode over the same adapter on startup, I can toggle numlock and capslock, but of course it doesn't work, b/c it's in XT mode.
Any ideas? Do you think running it in XT mode with soarer's converter would work?
It's a really fun board in good condition. Just hate that I can't get it to work.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Mon, 14 January 2019, 16:48:40
Okay, so the KB-5152 has green alps. They are pretty clean. Several of them are buttery smooth. Some are about an 8/10. But here's the problem... I can't get it to work. It has an AT-XT switch on the back. In AT mode over PS2 (DIN-mini DIN adapter that I know works) nothing happens. The Cursor Pad light comes on at startup of the computer, but nothing else happens. I can't toggle numlock or caps or anything.
If I put it in XT mode over the same adapter on startup, I can toggle numlock and capslock, but of course it doesn't work, b/c it's in XT mode.
Any ideas? Do you think running it in XT mode with soarer's converter would work?
It's a really fun board in good condition. Just hate that I can't get it to work.
Not sure if this helps but the main reason I sold my White Label Z-150 was because even though it was an AT type protocol, it would only work with a cheap Monoprice mouse-keyboard combo PS/2 converter. It wouldn't work with my Soarer's or Hasu's TMK PS/2 converter, even with the pullup resistors and remapping keys is a necessity for me.
It might be possible there is something like that going on. At least you have the switch on there so it can work in AT/XT mode with Soarer's converter (more options), though I prefer flashing TMK.
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 14 January 2019, 17:09:46
Okay, so the KB-5152 has green alps. They are pretty clean. Several of them are buttery smooth. Some are about an 8/10. But here's the problem... I can't get it to work. It has an AT-XT switch on the back. In AT mode over PS2 (DIN-mini DIN adapter that I know works) nothing happens. The Cursor Pad light comes on at startup of the computer, but nothing else happens. I can't toggle numlock or caps or anything.
If I put it in XT mode over the same adapter on startup, I can toggle numlock and capslock, but of course it doesn't work, b/c it's in XT mode.
Any ideas? Do you think running it in XT mode with soarer's converter would work?
It's a really fun board in good condition. Just hate that I can't get it to work.
Not sure if this helps but the main reason I sold my White Label Z-150 was because even though it was an AT type protocol, it would only work with a cheap Monoprice mouse-keyboard combo PS/2 converter. It wouldn't work with my Soarer's or Hasu's TMK PS/2 converter, even with the pullup resistors and remapping keys is a necessity for me.
It might be possible there is something like that going on. At least you have the switch on there so it can work in AT/XT mode with Soarer's converter (more options), though I prefer flashing TMK.
I have a soarer's on the way. I bet you're right.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 15 January 2019, 00:42:52
my white-label Z-150 didn't work with a Soarer's either, but it did work directly over PS/2 - however, he's already tried that Oo .Okay, so the KB-5152 has green alps. They are pretty clean. Several of them are buttery smooth. Some are about an 8/10. But here's the problem... I can't get it to work. It has an AT-XT switch on the back. In AT mode over PS2 (DIN-mini DIN adapter that I know works) nothing happens. The Cursor Pad light comes on at startup of the computer, but nothing else happens. I can't toggle numlock or caps or anything.
If I put it in XT mode over the same adapter on startup, I can toggle numlock and capslock, but of course it doesn't work, b/c it's in XT mode.
Any ideas? Do you think running it in XT mode with soarer's converter would work?
It's a really fun board in good condition. Just hate that I can't get it to work.
Not sure if this helps but the main reason I sold my White Label Z-150 was because even though it was an AT type protocol, it would only work with a cheap Monoprice mouse-keyboard combo PS/2 converter. It wouldn't work with my Soarer's or Hasu's TMK PS/2 converter, even with the pullup resistors and remapping keys is a necessity for me.
It might be possible there is something like that going on. At least you have the switch on there so it can work in AT/XT mode with Soarer's converter (more options), though I prefer flashing TMK.
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 17 January 2019, 11:04:31
my white-label Z-150 didn't work with a Soarer's either, but it did work directly over PS/2 - however, he's already tried that Oo .Okay, so the KB-5152 has green alps. They are pretty clean. Several of them are buttery smooth. Some are about an 8/10. But here's the problem... I can't get it to work. It has an AT-XT switch on the back. In AT mode over PS2 (DIN-mini DIN adapter that I know works) nothing happens. The Cursor Pad light comes on at startup of the computer, but nothing else happens. I can't toggle numlock or caps or anything.
If I put it in XT mode over the same adapter on startup, I can toggle numlock and capslock, but of course it doesn't work, b/c it's in XT mode.
Any ideas? Do you think running it in XT mode with soarer's converter would work?
It's a really fun board in good condition. Just hate that I can't get it to work.
Not sure if this helps but the main reason I sold my White Label Z-150 was because even though it was an AT type protocol, it would only work with a cheap Monoprice mouse-keyboard combo PS/2 converter. It wouldn't work with my Soarer's or Hasu's TMK PS/2 converter, even with the pullup resistors and remapping keys is a necessity for me.
It might be possible there is something like that going on. At least you have the switch on there so it can work in AT/XT mode with Soarer's converter (more options), though I prefer flashing TMK.
Soarer's converter worked like a charm! Biggest board I've owned to date, but I have an omnikey ultra in the mail... so bigger things ahead!
The green alps in this board are damn near mint. /drool
P.S. Does anyone know what the key in the middle of the arrow cluster (cross style) is supposed to be for? It doesn't seem to have a purpose that I can find.
Post by: mattlach on Thu, 17 January 2019, 15:35:04
What would you guys say is the best and cheapest way to give them a try?
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 17 January 2019, 15:44:35
I have tons of Buckling Spring and some Cherry MX experience, but I have never felt an Alps switch.
What would you guys say is the best and cheapest way to give them a try?
Your cheapest option is going to be a Dell AT101W (probably black alps) or an AEKII (probably dampened cream alps).
I'm not a fan of the dampened cream, personally. The important thing is to get a keyboard that looks very clean and unused since dirty Alps switches tend to feel pretty bad. I bought a new in box AT101W as my first Alps board.
There are also a lot of boards out there for just $10 to $20 more than the ones I listed above that have white alps switches, which are really nice as well.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 17 January 2019, 15:56:50
I have tons of Buckling Spring and some Cherry MX experience, but I have never felt an Alps switch.
What would you guys say is the best and cheapest way to give them a try?
alps come in many varieties, what's your current favorite type of switch? clicky, tactile, heavy, light, noisy, quiet? and we can probably point you in a good direction.
Post by: mattlach on Thu, 17 January 2019, 16:07:47
Your cheapest option is going to be a Dell AT101W (probably black alps) or an AEKII (probably dampened cream alps).
I'm not a fan of the dampened cream, personally. The important thing is to get a keyboard that looks very clean and unused since dirty Alps switches tend to feel pretty bad. I bought a new in box AT101W as my first Alps board.
There are also a lot of boards out there for just $10 to $20 more than the ones I listed above that have white alps switches, which are really nice as well.
Cool, thank you. I've exhausted by keyboard budget for a while, but this may be the next one I try!
Post by: mattlach on Thu, 17 January 2019, 16:18:15
alps come in many varieties, what's your current favorite type of switch? clicky, tactile, heavy, light, noisy, quiet? and we can probably point you in a good direction.
Thank you. My favorite switch by far of the ones I have tried are Model M style buckling springs, so very heavy, very tactile and and very clacky.
I've played around with some Cherry MX switches (Red, Brown, Blue) but by comparison they all feel the same to me. I did recently order a board with MX Greens and one with MX Clears to see if I liked them better, but I haven't received them yet.
The holy grail for me is to find a full 104 key board with a modern sleek design, simple backlit doubleshot keys for nighttime ease of use (none of that RGB bull****, it's not a Christmas tree) natrive USB and full NKRO with a key feel as close to buckling spring as possible.
This sounds unlikely though, from all the reading I've done.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 17 January 2019, 16:34:56
also check out his youtube, has tons of reviews of alps boards, he did a whole trilogy on the alps switch series
possibly, blue or amber?
alps switch reference: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
typically the complicated versions are a little nicer & older.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 17 January 2019, 17:16:54
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Thu, 17 January 2019, 18:19:07
What would you guys say is the best and cheapest way to give them a try?I could throw together an Alps64 or Dell AT101W for you. You can get SKBM White/Grey, SKBM Black, SKCL Yellow, used SKCM Black, and any Matias or Tai-Hao in-production switch.
I also know of a few NOS SKCM Green switches, but those would be super-expensive.
Post by: mattlach on Thu, 17 January 2019, 19:32:12
Got a big one, boys. First time I've had a seller actually work with me with some good counter-offers. Glad some people still know how to make deals.
Sweet, smooth greens. I think it's a looker:
(Attachment Link)
Will update when it gets here.
Nice! "Keyboard" by "Professional Manufacturer of Keyboard" Lol!
Almost sounds like some sort of scam :p
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 17 January 2019, 20:49:59
Got a big one, boys. First time I've had a seller actually work with me with some good counter-offers. Glad some people still know how to make deals.
Sweet, smooth greens. I think it's a looker:
(Attachment Link)
Will update when it gets here.
Nice! "Keyboard" by "Professional Manufacturer of Keyboard" Lol!
Almost sounds like some sort of scam :p
Yeah that’s one of my favorite parts is the box. Random sine wave graphic, bad slogans.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 18 January 2019, 00:21:12
I have tons of Buckling Spring and some Cherry MX experience, but I have never felt an Alps switch.Like Pixel said, get an AT101 or AEKII. They're cheap and plentiful.
What would you guys say is the best and cheapest way to give them a try?
Tactile Alps have the cool advantage that you can mod the switch to linear OR clicky. You can undamp AEKII's too.
Just get a clean one. If it's dirty or well-used, it'll likely feel pretty bad, or at least not as good. Be picky and/or opportunistic.
Post by: NovemberDusk on Fri, 18 January 2019, 03:32:44
Got a big one, boys. First time I've had a seller actually work with me with some good counter-offers. Glad some people still know how to make deals.
Sweet, smooth greens. I think it's a looker:
(Attachment Link)
Will update when it gets here.
Wow, both the keyboard and the box is a looker! How much did you get it for I wonder ;D
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 18 January 2019, 13:48:35
[attach=1]
More photos here: https://imgur.com/gallery/8VtN3VU
The GREAT news is that I found how to get it to work with my PC. I stumbled across a 1992 forum post from verycomputer.com where someone mentioned that the DIP switches need to have 1 and 3 down, and 2 up. On the normal OmniKey this would be ATT 6300 configuration, but it seems to magically work with my Hasu ADB to USB converter. The one and only thing that doesn't work in this config is the NumLock indicator. Not that you would ever use a NumLock on a fullsize+ keyboard.
It's in very clean condition (came in the original box and styrofoam). Archetypal white Alps in pretty much mint condition. The keycaps are thin, doubleshot ABS and are evenly yellowed. Very impressed with the build and heft of the Northgate.
The only thing I don't like about it is the space bar. Typical rattle and short travel from the foam padding underneath. I might work on it sometime.
Also, the DIP configuration and converter didn't seem to work on my Macbook Pro. I've had issues with other keyboards on it as well, it's finicky. No biggie for me, b/c I hardly ever use my macbook, but certainly something to mention in case someone was looking to use this on a mac.
Post by: nevin on Fri, 18 January 2019, 14:29:38
question for all.... has anyone put lighter springs in alps dampened cream/white or tactile switches? what's the breaking point that spring is too light to make switch work correctly? i've read about this on the MX side, very light springs in a more tactile switch (like say clear or green MX) the switch would not work correctly (tactile too stiff for spring). any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Post by: Altis on Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:23:16
Got my Northgate board today! First one. It's the OmniMac Ultra, the "Mac" version of the normal OmniKey Ultra. It's hard to find much about this keyboard
(Attachment Link)
More photos here: https://imgur.com/gallery/8VtN3VU
The GREAT news is that I found how to get it to work with my PC. I stumbled across a 1992 forum post from verycomputer.com where someone mentioned that the DIP switches need to have 1 and 3 down, and 2 up. On the normal OmniKey this would be ATT 6300 configuration, but it seems to magically work with my Hasu ADB to USB converter. The one and only thing that doesn't work in this config is the NumLock indicator. Not that you would ever use a NumLock on a fullsize+ keyboard.
It's in very clean condition (came in the original box and styrofoam). Archetypal white Alps in pretty much mint condition. The keycaps are thin, doubleshot ABS and are evenly yellowed. Very impressed with the build and heft of the Northgate.
The only thing I don't like about it is the space bar. Typical rattle and short travel from the foam padding underneath. I might work on it sometime.
Also, the DIP configuration and converter didn't seem to work on my Macbook Pro. I've had issues with other keyboards on it as well, it's finicky. No biggie for me, b/c I hardly ever use my macbook, but certainly something to mention in case someone was looking to use this on a mac.
Looks really nice!
A forum post from 1992... :eek: Could have been typed up on that board!
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:55:19
Got my Northgate board today! First one. It's the OmniMac Ultra, the "Mac" version of the normal OmniKey Ultra. It's hard to find much about this keyboard
(Attachment Link)
More photos here: https://imgur.com/gallery/8VtN3VU
The GREAT news is that I found how to get it to work with my PC. I stumbled across a 1992 forum post from verycomputer.com where someone mentioned that the DIP switches need to have 1 and 3 down, and 2 up. On the normal OmniKey this would be ATT 6300 configuration, but it seems to magically work with my Hasu ADB to USB converter. The one and only thing that doesn't work in this config is the NumLock indicator. Not that you would ever use a NumLock on a fullsize+ keyboard.
It's in very clean condition (came in the original box and styrofoam). Archetypal white Alps in pretty much mint condition. The keycaps are thin, doubleshot ABS and are evenly yellowed. Very impressed with the build and heft of the Northgate.
The only thing I don't like about it is the space bar. Typical rattle and short travel from the foam padding underneath. I might work on it sometime.
Also, the DIP configuration and converter didn't seem to work on my Macbook Pro. I've had issues with other keyboards on it as well, it's finicky. No biggie for me, b/c I hardly ever use my macbook, but certainly something to mention in case someone was looking to use this on a mac.
Double down arrows just in case, eh?
[attachimg=1]
Post by: kakan on Sun, 20 January 2019, 04:50:48
question for all.... has anyone put lighter springs in alps dampened cream/white or tactile switches? what's the breaking point that spring is too light to make switch work correctly? i've read about this on the MX side, very light springs in a more tactile switch (like say clear or green MX) the switch would not work correctly (tactile too stiff for spring). any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Can't say about cream/whites, but I've tried 40g sprit springs in SKCM brown switches with black switchplate and they worked fine.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 20 January 2019, 16:33:05
Post by: retrochick on Sun, 20 January 2019, 16:37:14
Just paid an exorbitant amount of money, but I now have an SKCL Brown keyboard on the way. Hopefully the switches are in decent shape, at least with SKCL switches you don't have to worry about altering the tactile leaf when cleaning.
Congrats. I got to try out a board with brown alps and I must say they are my favorite alps switches and the closest of any switch to the feel of topre. I currently have a v80 with linear modded cream dampened alps that a friend built for me. It's awesome.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 20 January 2019, 17:39:44
I am very familiar with SKCM (Tactile) Brown Alps, the board I bought actually contains SKCL (Linear) Brown Alps! Much rarer. I have lots of custom Alps projects to come in the next few months.Just paid an exorbitant amount of money, but I now have an SKCL Brown keyboard on the way. Hopefully the switches are in decent shape, at least with SKCL switches you don't have to worry about altering the tactile leaf when cleaning.
Congrats. I got to try out a board with brown alps and I must say they are my favorite alps switches and the closest of any switch to the feel of topre. I currently have a v80 with linear modded cream dampened alps that a friend built for me. It's awesome.
Post by: chyros on Sun, 20 January 2019, 18:00:55
Did you get the Epson or the Packard Bell? :)I am very familiar with SKCM (Tactile) Brown Alps, the board I bought actually contains SKCL (Linear) Brown Alps! Much rarer. I have lots of custom Alps projects to come in the next few months.Just paid an exorbitant amount of money, but I now have an SKCL Brown keyboard on the way. Hopefully the switches are in decent shape, at least with SKCL switches you don't have to worry about altering the tactile leaf when cleaning.
Congrats. I got to try out a board with brown alps and I must say they are my favorite alps switches and the closest of any switch to the feel of topre. I currently have a v80 with linear modded cream dampened alps that a friend built for me. It's awesome.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sun, 20 January 2019, 18:14:04
The Epson, as it was a bit less yellowed. I will most likely be desoldering the switches and doing a big cleaning job. I still have four more PCBs left I designed for my NOS Blue Alps Copam keyboard that should fit the layout. If any switches go back in the chassis, it will be with one of those PCBs (yay USB and NKRO).Did you get the Epson or the Packard Bell? :)I am very familiar with SKCM (Tactile) Brown Alps, the board I bought actually contains SKCL (Linear) Brown Alps! Much rarer. I have lots of custom Alps projects to come in the next few months.Just paid an exorbitant amount of money, but I now have an SKCL Brown keyboard on the way. Hopefully the switches are in decent shape, at least with SKCL switches you don't have to worry about altering the tactile leaf when cleaning.
Congrats. I got to try out a board with brown alps and I must say they are my favorite alps switches and the closest of any switch to the feel of topre. I currently have a v80 with linear modded cream dampened alps that a friend built for me. It's awesome.
Too bad I hate any layout with a BAE key - so much so I had to rehaul that Copam keyboard of mine. News on that coming soon.
Post by: nevin on Sun, 20 January 2019, 22:45:10
question for all.... has anyone put lighter springs in alps dampened cream/white or tactile switches? what's the breaking point that spring is too light to make switch work correctly? i've read about this on the MX side, very light springs in a more tactile switch (like say clear or green MX) the switch would not work correctly (tactile too stiff for spring). any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Can't say about cream/whites, but I've tried 40g sprit springs in SKCM brown switches with black switchplate and they worked fine.
thanks kakan.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Thu, 24 January 2019, 14:42:24
question for all.... has anyone put lighter springs in alps dampened cream/white or tactile switches? what's the breaking point that spring is too light to make switch work correctly? i've read about this on the MX side, very light springs in a more tactile switch (like say clear or green MX) the switch would not work correctly (tactile too stiff for spring). any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Can't say about cream/whites, but I've tried 40g sprit springs in SKCM brown switches with black switchplate and they worked fine.
Doesn't changing spring (to a lighter one) actually effect the actuation force? I was was under the impression that most of the force needed to depress the switch was from the tactile dummy plate. I've never opened up my SKCM Browns.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 24 January 2019, 14:57:46
Post by: YooGenius on Sun, 27 January 2019, 04:39:01
The spacebar is sticky though. I've read that I get two screw drivers, place it under each end of the spacebar and pull straight up?
Post by: chyros on Sun, 27 January 2019, 06:23:58
Picked up my first Alps board and I am blown away by the feel and sound of it! White Alps in a Focus FK-2001.Congrats, a nice find! :)
The spacebar is sticky though. I've read that I get two screw drivers, place it under each end of the spacebar and pull straight up?
I'd be careful tbh. The Alps stem isn't too strong - it's just a little bar, after all. I'd recommend getting a ring puller ($1 shipped from China), and pulling it off from the middle of the switch.
Wire pullers are better for single keys IMO, but they don't fit around big keys, so it pays to have one of each.
Post by: YooGenius on Sun, 27 January 2019, 19:12:20
Picked up my first Alps board and I am blown away by the feel and sound of it! White Alps in a Focus FK-2001.Congrats, a nice find! :)
The spacebar is sticky though. I've read that I get two screw drivers, place it under each end of the spacebar and pull straight up?
I'd be careful tbh. The Alps stem isn't too strong - it's just a little bar, after all. I'd recommend getting a ring puller ($1 shipped from China), and pulling it off from the middle of the switch.
Wire pullers are better for single keys IMO, but they don't fit around big keys, so it pays to have one of each.
Luckily I have a ring puller! So a ring puller, in the middle of the spacebar and pull straight up?
Btw, I love your Youtube Channel. Big Fan :))
Post by: chyros on Mon, 28 January 2019, 04:30:23
Cheers mate :) .Picked up my first Alps board and I am blown away by the feel and sound of it! White Alps in a Focus FK-2001.Congrats, a nice find! :)
The spacebar is sticky though. I've read that I get two screw drivers, place it under each end of the spacebar and pull straight up?
I'd be careful tbh. The Alps stem isn't too strong - it's just a little bar, after all. I'd recommend getting a ring puller ($1 shipped from China), and pulling it off from the middle of the switch.
Wire pullers are better for single keys IMO, but they don't fit around big keys, so it pays to have one of each.
Luckily I have a ring puller! So a ring puller, in the middle of the spacebar and pull straight up?
Btw, I love your Youtube Channel. Big Fan :))
Put the ring right where the switch is and pull up. You'll need to use a bit of force, but don't go mad on it. Still, this is by far the most likely method to not damage it.
Post by: NovemberDusk on Wed, 30 January 2019, 20:38:23
So, my Monterey K104 finally arrived and I am LOVING it. Fitted with SKCM Whites of the Pine variety, these feels so good and it secured my love for Alps switches :-*
The rest of the keyboard is pretty good too, doubleshot ABS keycaps with a decent solid build quality. Does flex a little when I attempted to twist it but who really does that to their keeb on a daily basis? Cable is also thicc and the connector looks pristine!
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/275606453144911874/540356386693971970/image1.jpg)
One small niggle though... one of the switches has their contact pins rusted to oblivion as seen in the picture above. And I was able to pull the entire switch out without resistance. :(
One solution I thought of is to desolder the switch on the Pause/Break key then use that as a replacement. Because who uses that key like at all?! I sure haven't. Other suggestions would be welcome too! I just want to get this board working with all the critical keys working.
All in all, this was a hella good buy. As my first Alps board, I'm pleasantly surprised and I suppose Alps, to me at least, has lived up to the hype.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Wed, 30 January 2019, 20:53:16
One small niggle though... one of the switches has their contact pins rusted to oblivion as seen in the picture above. And I was able to pull the entire switch out without resistance. :(
I have a bunch of extra switchplates if you need any.
Post by: NovemberDusk on Wed, 30 January 2019, 21:16:58
One small niggle though... one of the switches has their contact pins rusted to oblivion as seen in the picture above. And I was able to pull the entire switch out without resistance. :(
I have a bunch of extra switchplates if you need any.
That would be sweet! Which do I need? The long or short switchplate?
Post by: nevin on Wed, 30 January 2019, 22:59:27
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Thu, 31 January 2019, 17:20:53
It shouldn't matter, I think they are interchangeable.
One small niggle though... one of the switches has their contact pins rusted to oblivion as seen in the picture above. And I was able to pull the entire switch out without resistance. :(
I have a bunch of extra switchplates if you need any.
That would be sweet! Which do I need? The long or short switchplate?
Although since you live in Singapore it may be cheaper to buy some NOS SKCL Yellows from TaoBao and use the switchplates from them instead.
Post by: NovemberDusk on Fri, 01 February 2019, 02:16:35
It shouldn't matter, I think they are interchangeable.
One small niggle though... one of the switches has their contact pins rusted to oblivion as seen in the picture above. And I was able to pull the entire switch out without resistance. :(
I have a bunch of extra switchplates if you need any.
That would be sweet! Which do I need? The long or short switchplate?
Although since you live in Singapore it may be cheaper to buy some NOS SKCL Yellows from TaoBao and use the switchplates from them instead.
Likely interchangeable but I would like to get the most authentic feel and the difference in switchplates contribute to that ;)
I wouldn't mind shipping switchplates from you though, it won't cost much.
Post by: Aran.E99 on Fri, 01 February 2019, 09:45:19
[attachimg=1]
The switches feel great but, even after 2 days of cleaning, still feel a tiny bit scratchy. They feel MUCH better than clicky modded black alps, though.
[attachimg=2]
The plate had almost no rust/gunk on it yet the switches were in quite poor shape. The B key doesn't even function properly despite desoldering and cleaning it. I also have to unplug and plug the board post-bios as it doesn't function when I boot though I suspect the computer is to blame.
All issues aside its proven to be a pretty great board & daily driver.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Fri, 01 February 2019, 16:41:11
It shouldn't matter, I think they are interchangeable.
One small niggle though... one of the switches has their contact pins rusted to oblivion as seen in the picture above. And I was able to pull the entire switch out without resistance. :(
All the switchplates I have are the "newer" shorter ones.
I have a bunch of extra switchplates if you need any.
That would be sweet! Which do I need? The long or short switchplate?
Although since you live in Singapore it may be cheaper to buy some NOS SKCL Yellows from TaoBao and use the switchplates from them instead.
Likely interchangeable but I would like to get the most authentic feel and the difference in switchplates contribute to that ;)
I wouldn't mind shipping switchplates from you though, it won't cost much.
Post by: nevin on Mon, 04 February 2019, 23:38:02
Example: I've used the same dye (02 Golden Glow) for the modifiers on the top and the middle keyboard in the picture below. About 45 minutes for the darker, almost orange, color and about 20 minutes (or 30… don't quite remember) for the mustard yellow. (In the top keyboard I also used the Tangerine dye for enter, backspace and tab keys. Just thought I'd mention that..)[attachimg=1]
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 04 February 2019, 23:40:45
can someone help me identify the layout/language of these 60% AEKs? (cross post to an old thread)Example: I've used the same dye (02 Golden Glow) for the modifiers on the top and the middle keyboard in the picture below. About 45 minutes for the darker, almost orange, color and about 20 minutes (or 30… don't quite remember) for the mustard yellow. (In the top keyboard I also used the Tangerine dye for enter, backspace and tab keys. Just thought I'd mention that..)(Attachment Link)
Swedish.
Post by: nevin on Mon, 04 February 2019, 23:51:17
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Tue, 05 February 2019, 00:11:58
Hopefully this project will be done relatively soon.
Post by: LightningXI on Tue, 05 February 2019, 00:13:26
I'm currently working on an Alps 1800 build. Thinking about either orange alps or blue alps. Both seem like a good idea, so I'm having a hard time choosing.Personally I'd go for Orange. They're cheaper, easier to get, and actually quite pleasant in typefeel (arguably the best). Maybe you could get an SKCM blue escape key?
Hopefully this project will be done relatively soon.
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Wed, 06 February 2019, 20:03:48
I'm currently working on an Alps 1800 build. Thinking about either orange alps or blue alps. Both seem like a good idea, so I'm having a hard time choosing.Personally I'd go for Orange. They're cheaper, easier to get, and actually quite pleasant in typefeel (arguably the best). Maybe you could get an SKCM blue escape key?
Hopefully this project will be done relatively soon.
I was leaning towards orange as well. I'm not a fan of multiple switches on a board, so I'll probably do all oranges. I do want to try ambers though.
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 12 February 2019, 14:49:18
I know the 8801s.. Anyone know whats in the 9800 series? No wiki entries :(
Post by: nevin on Tue, 12 February 2019, 15:12:40
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=12392
thanks to HaaTa
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 12 February 2019, 15:18:21
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=12828
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=12392
thanks to HaaTa
Thanks! I should remember to check the forum as well as the wiki in the future :p
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 26 February 2019, 18:44:07
can someone help me identify the layout/language of these 60% AEKs? (cross post to an old thread)Example: I've used the same dye (02 Golden Glow) for the modifiers on the top and the middle keyboard in the picture below. About 45 minutes for the darker, almost orange, color and about 20 minutes (or 30… don't quite remember) for the mustard yellow. (In the top keyboard I also used the Tangerine dye for enter, backspace and tab keys. Just thought I'd mention that..)(Attachment Link)
Never thought about dyeing AEK caps for a little flavor, I'm gonna have to try this on some of my extras!
Post by: nevin on Tue, 26 February 2019, 18:51:18
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 February 2019, 19:54:16
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453)
Post by: nevin on Tue, 26 February 2019, 21:24:15
Post by: ander on Wed, 27 February 2019, 06:01:45
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/2/29/Alps_buckling_spring_--_infobox.jpg)
I've never seen one, other in than photo at Deskthority... What do you suppose they were like?
Post by: chyros on Wed, 27 February 2019, 06:28:38
Does anyone have one of the rare boards with the Alps buckling-spring switches (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SM-101)?I reviewed an RM Nimbus-branded SM-101 with them in, ages ago. They are pretty interesting switches. IMO they don't feel quite as good as IBM's version, but they sound better.Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/2/29/Alps_buckling_spring_--_infobox.jpg)
I've never seen one, other in than photo at Deskthority... What do you suppose they were like?
Very unique sound, by the way. Reminiscent of small coins hitting the ground ^^ .
Post by: E3E on Fri, 01 March 2019, 06:58:07
Does anyone have one of the rare boards with the Alps buckling-spring switches (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SM-101)?Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/2/29/Alps_buckling_spring_--_infobox.jpg)
I've never seen one, other in than photo at Deskthority... What do you suppose they were like?
I have a C.Itoh branded board with one, but it uses a terminal protocol. Snacksthecat has cracked it though and developed a way to convert it, from what I've seen, if I recall correctly.
I don't feel like they're all that great of a switch type, personally. I lost interest quickly, and the board felt far cheaper than most SKCM/SKCL boards I've handled, barring the Chicony and later Focus boards.
Post by: AtomicChameleon on Wed, 06 March 2019, 08:26:29
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/rbY8wfR.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/MqTAz4l.jpg)
Lucky number 8 :)
This is gorgeous. :p What case is that and what keyboards have alps caps like that? Some Japanese AEK? So rad.
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 06 March 2019, 08:27:35
Case is what it says there, AEK64. Csps are AEK II JapaneseShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/rbY8wfR.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/MqTAz4l.jpg)
Lucky number 8 :)
This is gorgeous.
Post by: AtomicChameleon on Wed, 06 March 2019, 08:40:18
Post by: Sintpinty on Sat, 09 March 2019, 06:02:54
One question: how do i know it's alps?
Post by: nevin on Sat, 09 March 2019, 06:35:25
- pull a cap
- google search for make/model, see if it's been reviewed here or on deskthority
- check the wiki's
• https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Alps_switches
• https://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=GeekHackWiki
places to get
- ebay
- thrift shop
- electronics recycling center
- yard sales (once weather gets better)
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 09 March 2019, 11:06:24
I haven't tried an alps keyboard, but would love to get one! People say that the clicks in the switches make Cherry MX blue feel like a joke. Problem is, at the thrift store i can only find membrane keyboards...
One question: how do i know it's alps?
If it has a square slider you might as well just pick it up. If it turns out to be a clone that you aren't a fan of, then just flip it on Ebay for a few $$
Post by: mech0nly on Sun, 17 March 2019, 12:23:48
I was wondering, does the SKCM top housing (no LED hole) has effect on linear alps?
or is it better to use SKCL top housing (with LED hole) instead?
Thanks ;)
Post by: Sintpinty on Sun, 17 March 2019, 13:50:56
Matias is the only Alps switch/board manufacturer in the world now.
The day will come when the alps patient expires.. and people make them again. That day will be good.
Still waiting for it, though. We love alps! ❤️
Post by: nevin on Sun, 17 March 2019, 14:03:23
Hi
I was wondering, does the SKCM top housing (no LED hole) has effect on linear alps?
or is it better to use SKCL top housing (with LED hole) instead?
Thanks ;)
only SKCL had option for LED as that spot was used for the click/tactile leaf in SKCMs
don't know if the led hole would have any effect on sound.
you'd probably only notice a difference between bamboo or pine tops.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slits
Plus, over the years and making things cheaper, you can usually find one or both variants of the same switch.
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 17 March 2019, 14:12:52
i-Rocks' attempt was laudable in concept but somehow missed the boat in execution. Maybe if it had been undamped it would have been better.
Post by: nevin on Sun, 17 March 2019, 14:19:19
Post by: Telstar on Sun, 17 March 2019, 14:36:56
As much as I like the feel of decent white Alps, I wish that a follow-on manufacturer would go for MX keycap compatibility.
https://candykeys.com/product/topre-mx-adapter-stem-1-piece
Wouldn't be possible to make adapters for Alps as well?
Post by: nevin on Sun, 17 March 2019, 14:43:43
https://thekey.company/products/nexus-alps-to-mx-conversion-kits
Post by: mech0nly on Tue, 19 March 2019, 06:29:00
Hi
I was wondering, does the SKCM top housing (no LED hole) has effect on linear alps?
or is it better to use SKCL top housing (with LED hole) instead?
Thanks ;)
only SKCL had option for LED as that spot was used for the click/tactile leaf in SKCMs
don't know if the led hole would have any effect on sound.
you'd probably only notice a difference between bamboo or pine tops.
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slits
Plus, over the years and making things cheaper, you can usually find one or both variants of the same switch.
I see. I think I need to try it out myself :)
On the other hand, I have a chance to make alps plate out of CF and PC, both 1.5mm thickness. Which one you guys recommend? ;)
Post by: nguyenhimself on Thu, 21 March 2019, 10:48:25
Can any of you guys with plate-cutting-and-designing experience come have a look at my plate file here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99819.new#new)? This is all very new to me.
I had to learn CAD for this dream Alps endgame build, and I'm not giving up now :)
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 21 March 2019, 17:38:29
Hi, so I'm working on my own plate for a hand-wire build, because I really want a compact 60% Alps board with arrow keys and split spacebars. Easy, right?
Can any of you guys with plate-cutting-and-designing experience come have a look at my plate file here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99819.new#new)? This is all very new to me.
I had to learn CAD for this dream Alps endgame build, and I'm not giving up now :)
Pretty cool, man. I have no advice but I’d love to see the end result
Post by: Wojciech on Wed, 17 April 2019, 16:13:42
Post by: tron on Wed, 17 April 2019, 18:43:09
Post by: nevin on Thu, 18 April 2019, 04:34:14
@tron - Mmmm, green. What are those narrow switches at the top? (cluster of 6 on top left, cluster of 7 on too right). Don't think i've seen those before.
Post by: tron on Thu, 18 April 2019, 10:01:59
@Wojciech - Very nice, looks great!
@tron - Mmmm, green. What are those narrow switches at the top? (cluster of 6 on top left, cluster of 7 on too right). Don't think i've seen those before.
They are Alps SKCL compact green. I've seen them in a handful of old laptops and specialty keyboards like the Videowriter. Check out the DT Wiki- https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Compact (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Compact)
Post by: nevin on Thu, 18 April 2019, 11:07:26
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Thu, 18 April 2019, 17:36:04
I'll be using FR-4 plates from now on though because acrylic is too fragile (this plate already cracked in one spot).
Also I ran out of Black Alps so I'm going to use Alps Clones.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CoQAAOSwxupcsmQm/s-l1600.jpg)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WY0AAOSw1AZcsmRD/s-l1600.jpg)
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 22 April 2019, 21:51:32
Linear Black Alps build, similar to my last one but with black case and acrylic plate.
I'll be using FR-4 plates from now on though because acrylic is too fragile (this plate already cracked in one spot).
Also I ran out of Black Alps so I'm going to use Alps Clones.Show Image(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CoQAAOSwxupcsmQm/s-l1600.jpg)Show Image(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WY0AAOSw1AZcsmRD/s-l1600.jpg)
Tai Hao keycaps?
I ahve a set myself, bu no Alps keyboard :)) At least someone is still making Alps sets.
Post by: Wojciech on Tue, 23 April 2019, 16:25:08
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Tue, 23 April 2019, 18:33:57
(https://i.imgur.com/9Mn37W9.jpg)
Post by: nevin on Tue, 23 April 2019, 18:34:44
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Fri, 26 April 2019, 20:48:49
(https://i.imgur.com/YTYbvZK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/R7ee0Gd.jpg)
Post by: the_ambyguous on Sat, 27 April 2019, 01:31:46
I'm currently working on an Alps 1800 build. Thinking about either orange alps or blue alps. Both seem like a good idea, so I'm having a hard time choosing.
Hopefully this project will be done relatively soon.
for a 60% or smaller build, I would have suggested orange alps as they tend to sound and feel just as good in smaller form factors.
if youre going to go all out and do an 1800 build, I would say go for SKCM blues. they are usually used in smaller builds but the skcm blues sound better in larger cases imo, like in their home keyboards. an 1800 would be a perfect build for blues. where are you getting a 1800 pcb for alps?
Tai-Hao knows I like Alps, so they gave me some free Alps blanks!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/9Mn37W9.jpg)
oof, i've heard nothing but bad things. how do they feel?
I haven't tried an alps keyboard, but would love to get one! People say that the clicks in the switches make Cherry MX blue feel like a joke. Problem is, at the thrift store i can only find membrane keyboards...
One question: how do i know it's alps?
type the keyboards name and put the word "deskthority" or "geekhack" behind it, if it has alps generally itll have a post somewhere between the two.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 27 April 2019, 12:48:08
oof, i've heard nothing but bad things. how do they feel?
type the keyboards name and put the word "deskthority" or "geekhack" behind it, if it has alps generally itll have a post somewhere between the two.
APC blues actually don't feel that bad. Not very clicky, but lightweight and decently tactile.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 27 April 2019, 12:49:54
oof, i've heard nothing but bad things. how do they feel?
type the keyboards name and put the word "deskthority" or "geekhack" behind it, if it has alps generally itll have a post somewhere between the two.
APC blues actually don't feel that bad. Not very clicky, but lightweight and decently tactile.
If you want ultra tactile and clicky, AK-CN2 is a better modern clone for that.
Post by: Wojciech on Mon, 29 April 2019, 03:55:09
@Wojciech - WOW, that's beautiful. table router/cnc?
Thank you - This is case purchased in China via Aliexpress
Post by: networkdrift on Thu, 02 May 2019, 13:22:34
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 07 May 2019, 16:25:18
This one is utterly immaculate and not yellowed at all whatsoever, a later model with dampened whites instead of creams.
It is exquisite to type on, but I had forgotten how absolutely infuriating it is to have the stupid Apple/Windows/Command keys on either side of the space bar rather than the Alts. I have mapped many favorite short cuts to Cntrl+Alt+something and having Alt in the wrong place is making me crazy.
I know that I could jump through hoops and re-map the keys, but even then then the Alts ("option") are 1.25u while the Apples ("command") are 1.5u so they won't even swap! Aarrrgghh!
Post by: LightningXI on Tue, 07 May 2019, 17:42:05
It has been at least a couple of years since I found an excellent keyboard for a cheap price in the wild, but today I got an absolutely pristine AEK2 in a salvage shop for $3.99
This one is utterly immaculate and not yellowed at all whatsoever, a later model with dampened whites instead of creams.
It is exquisite to type on, but I had forgotten how absolutely infuriating it is to have the stupid Apple/Windows/Command keys on either side of the space bar rather than the Alts. I have mapped many favorite short cuts to Cntrl+Alt+something and having Alt in the wrong place is making me crazy.
I know that I could jump through hoops and re-map the keys, but even then then the Alts ("option") are 1.25u while the Apples ("command") are 1.5u so they won't even swap! Aarrrgghh!
You could just write up a quick script on AutoHotkey and remap those instead of having to swap keycaps, which you can't as you mentioned.
Post by: nevin on Tue, 07 May 2019, 21:25:15
Legends not matching... that's why i went blank caps years ago. it's more about muscle memory than what's actually on the caps.
Something to note... most of apple boards did not differentiate (electrically) between at least the command key if not all of the standard modifiers. meaning, no way to differentiate between left & right command keys as they are literally wired as the same switch. you'd have to cut traces and pretty much replace the internal controller to have them do different things. (not positive the 1995 AEKII is like this, but pretty sure it is)
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 07 May 2019, 21:27:01
https://drop.com/buy/omo-blank-pbt-alps-keycap-set?utm_source=linkshare&referer=YBADZG
Post by: nevin on Tue, 07 May 2019, 22:19:10
never tried XDA.... and these are thick blank alps for cheap, couldn't say no. i spent more for aprox. 70 blank keys from ali-x-press.
i'd like to do an alps version of my viterbi & these would be a good candidate. (or possibly dactyl, but not sure if XDA is too square/wide to concave that much)
Post by: swedishpiehole on Wed, 08 May 2019, 11:10:39
My questions to you all are: is there anything else these switches need to get them back into perfect shape? Or do I just accept that these suck and try to source different switches? If the latter, which switches do you recommend? For reference, I favor light tactile switches such as Topre 45g, KBD T1s, and Aliaz 60s. The quieter the better, since I work in a shared office, but priority is the key feel and clean sound. Thanks in advance!
Post by: nevin on Wed, 08 May 2019, 11:47:42
white/cream dampened are a little heavier than your preference as well. (aprox. 70g if i remember right) this can be solved with lighter springs. either harvested from lighter alps switches or sprit alps springs (aftermarket, you pick the weight)
also, don't just soak them. use soap, water, toothbrush, qtips, etc... and scrub the crap out of them. be delicate with the rubber bumpers as these may have started to degrade over time.
dampened is about the only option you have for active "quieting" (either vintage alps or matias).
if you want something more tactile without being louder & clicky, check out the switches form the apple adjustable keyboard (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard) (Alps SKFS). these are more tactile, usually liberally lubed from factory, so pretty quiet compared to the IIgs keyboard i have (Apple Desktop Bus Keyboard (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Desktop_Bus_Keyboard))
Post by: swedishpiehole on Wed, 08 May 2019, 12:30:46
@swedishpiehole - have you tried the matias quiet click? they are dampened simplified alps. switches would be new, so no worries there on condition of switch. and reasonably priced compared to most MX.
white/cream dampened are a little heavier than your preference as well. (aprox. 70g if i remember right) this can be solved with lighter springs. either harvested from lighter alps switches or sprit alps springs (aftermarket, you pick the weight)
also, don't just soak them. use soap, water, toothbrush, qtips, etc... and scrub the crap out of them. be delicate with the rubber bumpers as these may have started to degrade over time.
dampened is about the only option you have for active "quieting" (either vintage alps or matias).
if you want something more tactile without being louder & clicky, check out the switches form the apple adjustable keyboard (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard) (Alps SKFS). these are more tactile, usually liberally lubed from factory, so pretty quiet compared to the IIgs keyboard i have (Apple Desktop Bus Keyboard (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Desktop_Bus_Keyboard))
I considered the Matias ones, but have read some pretty terrible reviews of the Matias boards that have those switches (chattering for example). Perhaps it's not the switches themselves that are the problem? As for the white damped ones, I could clean the sh*t out of them, but honestly it's just sooooo much work on top of all the desoldering and soldering I will need to do.
I checked out the SKFS switches you mentioned, but it looks like they have 4 pins and don't take regular Alps keycaps, so they won't work for my Alps64 build.
Open to more suggestions on Alps64 compatible Alps that have good tactility without being too heavy or too loud!
Post by: nevin on Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:06:04
Quote
I could clean the sh*t out of them, but honestly it's just sooooo much work on top of all the desoldering and soldering I will need to do....then spend the money on a NOS (new old stock) board, or get matias, or some other NEW clone.
SKFS 4 pins, extra 2 pins only for alignment, as these were typically pcb mount being a low profile/compact switch that was typically the case.
matias - was that the 1st gen stuff? most chatter can be resolved with cleaning (if old) or repetitive presses (oxidation on contacts) or debounce in firmware. being matias new switches, my guess would be the issue is in the firmware and/or new switches not being "broke in" yet. i've seen this a number of times with NOS and old/dirty boards.
Post by: swedishpiehole on Sun, 12 May 2019, 15:56:35
@swedishpiehole - sorry, forgot you mentioned the alps64I'm sure that is great advice, but I'm too cheap to invest in NOS and for some reason I feel compelled to experience the original Alps feel I've read so much about so I'm not excited by the idea of Matias switches. So I just bought a vintage Apple M0115 with Salmon Alps on eBay for a somewhat reasonable price ($50 + shipping). I'm prepared to clean the crap out of them and hope to be able to finally understand what the Alps appeal is all about. The board I bought has French layout, so I can clean up the keycaps and probably get my money back by selling them.QuoteI could clean the sh*t out of them, but honestly it's just sooooo much work on top of all the desoldering and soldering I will need to do....then spend the money on a NOS (new old stock) board, or get matias, or some other NEW clone.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 12 May 2019, 17:37:14
I'm prepared to clean the crap out of them
Do not start down that trail until you have used them for a while. Do not assume that they are bad because they are old, dirty, or yellow.
Post by: swedishpiehole on Sun, 12 May 2019, 17:57:53
OK, noted! I'll test them first of course. Based on my recent experience with damped whites on an AEK that were scratchy and awful I just assumed any Alps on a 30+ year old board would be dirty.
I'm prepared to clean the crap out of them
Do not start down that trail until you have used them for a while. Do not assume that they are bad because they are old, dirty, or yellow.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 12 May 2019, 22:00:23
It has been at least a couple of years since I found an excellent keyboard for a cheap price in the wild, but today I got an absolutely pristine AEK2 in a salvage shop for $3.99
This one is utterly immaculate and not yellowed at all whatsoever, a later model with dampened whites instead of creams.
It is exquisite to type on, but I had forgotten how absolutely infuriating it is to have the stupid Apple/Windows/Command keys on either side of the space bar rather than the Alts. I have mapped many favorite short cuts to Cntrl+Alt+something and having Alt in the wrong place is making me crazy.
I know that I could jump through hoops and re-map the keys, but even then then the Alts ("option") are 1.25u while the Apples ("command") are 1.5u so they won't even swap! Aarrrgghh!
A simpler solution is to just get a Mac :p
Post by: chyros on Mon, 13 May 2019, 00:30:56
...and at the same time, don't assume all Alps switches suck if you do get a crap one and find that cleaning and lubing doesn't help ;p .OK, noted! I'll test them first of course. Based on my recent experience with damped whites on an AEK that were scratchy and awful I just assumed any Alps on a 30+ year old board would be dirty.
I'm prepared to clean the crap out of them
Do not start down that trail until you have used them for a while. Do not assume that they are bad because they are old, dirty, or yellow.
Post by: swedishpiehole on Fri, 17 May 2019, 11:02:56
On the bright side, unlike the previous AEK II I bought that had white slit-less Alps that felt like utter **** even after cleaning, this one has cream damped with the slit and I have to say, they actually feel quite nice. I have never tried any other Alps switches other than these two, so I don't know how they compare to salmons or oranges or whatever.
Now I need to decide if I will harvest these cream damped for my Alps64 build or whether to resell this AEK II and keep looking for one with salmons or oranges. And if I do decide to harvest these, should I clean them?
P.S. @chyros, I've watched all of your Alps videos and it's your fault I've become obsessed with obtaining Alps nirvana.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Fri, 17 May 2019, 13:35:14
UGH I'M SO PISSED! After carefully checking all the info at Deskthority about the AEK II and trawling eBay for one that didn't have the "S" in the square on the bottom right of the label, I thought I struck gold on a French Canadian version. The label didn't have the S symbol, so I thought for sure it would have salmons and I bought it. But I forgot to check where it was made, which turns out is Ireland. So it has cream damped. Merde, alors!
On the bright side, unlike the previous AEK II I bought that had white slit-less Alps that felt like utter **** even after cleaning, this one has cream damped with the slit and I have to say, they actually feel quite nice. I have never tried any other Alps switches other than these two, so I don't know how they compare to salmons or oranges or whatever.
Now I need to decide if I will harvest these cream damped for my Alps64 build or whether to resell this AEK II and keep looking for one with salmons or oranges. And if I do decide to harvest these, should I clean them?
P.S. @chyros, I've watched all of your Alps videos and it's your fault I've become obsessed with obtaining Alps nirvana.
Try putting Matias tactile leaves in your damped whites.
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 17 May 2019, 13:44:04
Post by: swedishpiehole on Fri, 17 May 2019, 14:03:30
i used to hate dampened cream, but my tastes have evolved over time. Something about using Zilents and 45g topre made me appreciate the dampened alps switch. I even like silent linears now. Weird, I know. The only thing about any dampened switch is that it draws so much attention to every little flaw in the keyboard b/c you can hear those flaws (squeaks and rattles) so much clearer.Same here. I started out thinking I preferred clicky switches and evolved to really prefer light tactiles including Zilent, Aliaz, T1, and especially Topre (45g or BKE ultra lights). I have a suspicion that damped Alps might actually be best for me, but I won't be satisfied until I've at least tried some of the more holy grail tactile versions like salmon or orange.
Quote from: abrahamstechnology link=topic=45456.msg2765120#msg2765120 date=1558118114
Try putting Matias tactile leaves in your damped whites.
[/quote
Try putting Matias tactile leaves in your damped whites.
[/quote
Interesting, though would be quite time consuming. What would this change?
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Fri, 17 May 2019, 18:15:11
Matias tactile leaves in Alps housings are much more tactile and don't have the scratchy-feeling tactile bump like the late SKCM tactiles had.
Interesting, though would be quite time consuming. What would this change?
Post by: nevin on Sat, 18 May 2019, 01:59:23
Matias tactile leaves in Alps housings are much more tactile and don't have the scratchy-feeling tactile bump like the late SKCM tactiles had.
Interesting, though would be quite time consuming. What would this change?
To clarify... you're comparing Matias tactile leaves vs, simplified alps tactile leaves?
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 18 May 2019, 21:24:53
To clarify... you're comparing Matias tactile leaves vs, simplified alps tactile leaves?
No, the late SKCM blacks and dampened whites without the slots in the top housing. The tactile leaves in those are junk and wear out too fast. Matias switches have a slightly smaller slider than the Alps slider, so the tactile leaf catches on the Alps slider more, creating more tactility.
Post by: swedishpiehole on Mon, 20 May 2019, 15:31:37
To clarify... you're comparing Matias tactile leaves vs, simplified alps tactile leaves?
No, the late SKCM blacks and dampened whites without the slots in the top housing. The tactile leaves in those are junk and wear out too fast. Matias switches have a slightly smaller slider than the Alps slider, so the tactile leaf catches on the Alps slider more, creating more tactility.
Ah, well in that case I don't think there would be any point in getting these for my cream damped ones, because they have slits and feel pretty tactile already. However, I wonder if it's worth trying them with the white damped on my other AEK. When compared to the cream damped, the white damped not only feel less tactile, but they don't make the subtle click sound that the cream ones do.
Post by: Gabbzan on Sat, 25 May 2019, 16:08:12
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 26 May 2019, 13:39:02
i used to hate dampened cream, but my tastes have evolved over time. Something about using Zilents and 45g topre made me appreciate the dampened alps switch. I even like silent linears now. Weird, I know. The only thing about any dampened switch is that it draws so much attention to every little flaw in the keyboard b/c you can hear those flaws (squeaks and rattles) so much clearer.Interesting. Similar experience here. Although Cherry mx and clones have long been my least favored varieties of switches, I tried v1 Zilents and rather liked them. However, Zilents are still far from the quality feel of Topre.
I have comparatively little experience with damped Alps; most of my Alps-switch or Alps-clone boards have SKCM white or blue switches. However, I do have a KBP V60 with Matias Quiet switches and another V60 with Matias Click switches. The Matias boards are fun, and I like them both, but I tend to type faster and more accurately with Matias Clicks.
Post by: AtomicChameleon on Thu, 30 May 2019, 13:05:34
I finished my first independent build today. Orange Alps from AEK, Tina-C case and bluetooth. Very nice feeling :)
Hey Wojciech, awesome board! I have been interested in putting together an alps HHKB together recently as well but couldn't find any aluminum ones that supported an alps plate. Even when I look at the Tina on Ali/KBD it looks like it's only for MX. How did you do this? Am I (please tell me I am) mistaken on the Tina being only mx? Would love to hear any details/tips you have on achieving an alps HHKB!
Post by: nevin on Thu, 30 May 2019, 13:45:48
https://github.com/emdude/Alps-60-Keyboard-Plates
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14038&start=#p315230
don't quote me, but a bunch of 60% cases have the same mounting points/stad-offs.
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 31 May 2019, 10:12:56
open source alps plates (HHKB included):
https://github.com/emdude/Alps-60-Keyboard-Plates
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14038&start=#p315230
don't quote me, but a bunch of 60% cases have the same mounting points/stad-offs.
Yeah, all those plates should fit in tray mount cases. I would double check that the stabilizer holes are properly placed before ordering one though.
Post by: HungerMechanic on Fri, 31 May 2019, 13:12:59
I tried Orange Alps, and it was a life-changing experience. But what is the weight? It's a little heavy for my preference, to be honest.
I also like light tactiles, especially 45 gr. Topre (silenced), Kailh Pro Purples, and I'm trying a wide range of tactiles right now.
Post by: nevin on Fri, 31 May 2019, 14:37:32
you can always swap in lighter spring.
light tactile... me too.... keep us posted on your findings.
Post by: Wojciech on Sun, 02 June 2019, 09:55:25
I finished my first independent build today. Orange Alps from AEK, Tina-C case and bluetooth. Very nice feeling :)
Hey Wojciech, awesome board! I have been interested in putting together an alps HHKB together recently as well but couldn't find any aluminum ones that supported an alps plate. Even when I look at the Tina on Ali/KBD it looks like it's only for MX. How did you do this? Am I (please tell me I am) mistaken on the Tina being only mx? Would love to hear any details/tips you have on achieving an alps HHKB!
Hello
Sorry for late reply. I did dxf files for cut by myself. I will post it - one is all Alps stabiliser and one is Alsp stabiliser and cherry stab for spacebar.
Greetings
Post by: superbia on Sat, 08 June 2019, 03:09:24
Post by: Dumble_Hub on Sun, 09 June 2019, 17:26:06
Post by: nevin on Sun, 09 June 2019, 23:51:42
@superbia - sounds good. dampened cream/white? case? caps?
Post by: superbia on Mon, 10 June 2019, 16:55:32
dampened cream/white?Yes
case?Iris (no middle layer)
caps?AEK II
Post by: nevin on Mon, 10 June 2019, 21:14:58
something very similar is next on my wish list.
i currently have a viterbi & love it. would like to try a staggered ortho, but don't want to get too small. ideally, i'd like to keep the 7 columns instead of 5 or 6 and would like to try it in the split dactyl/manuform style.
Post by: superbia on Tue, 11 June 2019, 15:54:41
@superbia - ooh, would love to see it. how do you like it so far?
something very similar is next on my wish list.
i currently have a viterbi & love it. would like to try a staggered ortho, but don't want to get too small. ideally, i'd like to keep the 7 columns instead of 5 or 6 and would like to try it in the split dactyl/manuform style.
If you are not in a hurry I'd suggest doing some more research and saving money for something like this (it's just safer to get a larger keyboard):
https://github.com/omkbd/ErgoDash
Iris is my first split keyboard and I type and code on it daily and I'm very happy with it. Here's my list of pros and cons:
Pros:
More
- completely removed my wrist pain (which I had on non-split keyboards)
- [forced my hands to slightly angle outwards (removing pressure from the carpal tunnels)/li]
- once configured properly, you don't really need more keys on your keyboard
- after a handful of months owning it I sometimes still get the urge to just do some speed-test typing (because typing on it feels so good)
More
- it's not an easy build
- it's not actually as small IRL as it looks on the pictures
- took me a while to familiarize with the staggered layout before I could comfortably reach 120wpm
- the Iris can feel like it's hurting you at first, but then you get used to it and it feels normal (you barely notice you are typing)
- requires a clever layout to utilize all of the keys
- if you use qwerty (or any basic layout) I am not really sure that you will experience the full ergo sensation
P.S. I had no time to clean it but you get to see it in it's natural habitat (exactly how I use it)
Post by: nevin on Tue, 11 June 2019, 17:12:28
yeah, i'll have to revisit a 5x6 layout & see if it's doable. i just really liked that with 5x7s you could keep a normal number row.
i did see the ergo dash the other week but haven't looked into it any further. looks like it might be a good option. alps support! YAY!
Post by: Venatorious on Tue, 11 June 2019, 21:51:54
[attachimg=1]
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iCcmTJLmYAkHqexK6
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 11 June 2019, 22:44:17
These are on their way to E3E and gainsborough
(Attachment Link)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iCcmTJLmYAkHqexK6
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Post by: nevin on Wed, 12 June 2019, 06:17:55
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 12 June 2019, 11:28:44
@Venatorious - Very nice! What was the source board?
A tandem 6526 board(not sure if I got the numbers right)
There's a lot more alps stuff in my sale thread in the classifieds section. Click here > :p https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101142.0;topicseen (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101142.0;topicseen)
Post by: d.caminero on Thu, 13 June 2019, 03:24:18
@Venatorious - Very nice! What was the source board?
A tandem 6526 board(not sure if I got the numbers right)
There's a lot more alps stuff in my sale thread in the classifieds section. Click here > :p https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101142.0;topicseen (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101142.0;topicseen)
You ****ed me up bad with that sale man... Hope you can send to europe :eek:
Post by: invariance on Thu, 13 June 2019, 07:13:00
@Venatorious - Very nice! What was the source board?
A tandem 6526 board(not sure if I got the numbers right)
There's a lot more alps stuff in my sale thread in the classifieds section. Click here > :p https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101142.0;topicseen (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101142.0;topicseen)
So much want.
So little funds. :( :(
Post by: keyberzerker on Thu, 13 June 2019, 08:59:27
Can you please help me with aprox value on this vintage MCK-142 Pro Ortek .
It is never used completely NOS with packaging, instructions and everything - using white Alps
https://imgur.com/a/CCSWiEL
(https://imgur.com/mb5Y80F)
(https://imgur.com/CJjmsat)
(https://imgur.com/1DOMqqH)
(https://imgur.com/zNKSmIf)
Thanks guys! :thumb:
Post by: Venatorious on Thu, 13 June 2019, 09:38:17
You ****ed me up bad with that sale man... Hope you can send to europe :eek:
I absolutely can, already replied to your PM!
So much want.Do itttttt :p
So little funds. :( :(
My first post here after being the lurker for more then 3-4 years.I'm not an expert on NIB stuff or ISO layouts, but the switches aren't worth much because its white alps. The layout is ISO and not bigass, so that's good news. I'd say like $150-$250 depending on the person since it has everything, including instructions.
Can you please help me with aprox value on this vintage MCK-142 Pro Ortek .
It is never used completely NOS with packaging, instructions and everything - using white Alps
https://imgur.com/a/CCSWiELShow Image(https://imgur.com/mb5Y80F)Show Image(https://imgur.com/CJjmsat)Show Image(https://imgur.com/1DOMqqH)Show Image(https://imgur.com/zNKSmIf)
Thanks guys! :thumb:
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 07 July 2019, 09:25:48
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101505.msg2784328
Post by: pabile on Mon, 08 July 2019, 20:18:04
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3396336 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3396336)
Post by: nevin on Mon, 08 July 2019, 22:02:57
There should be a sticky with a list of parts like these that have been created & some of the files for plates & half plates for alps, along with Delirious's alignment "comb" jig. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552.msg2727357#msg2727357) for PCB mounting SKCL/SKCM alps
Post by: pabile on Tue, 09 July 2019, 20:04:14
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 19 July 2019, 18:28:29
They are impressively thick. The sound on my black Alps is a big upgrade from the stock caps. This XDA set is different than the ones I've had before. I have the MX 8-bit set and the default set that came with my Kumo board. These are thicker and different in texture. They are smooth and very satisfying to the touch. Also, I might be crazy, but they feel easier to type on. It's almost like the surface area is slightly smaller than my other XDA sets. I like this because it leads to less accidental key presses. The homing keys are nicely scooped and easy to distinguish by touch. I can't believe these keycaps are so cheap. It's a great deal.
Now to find something to build with them.
Post by: nevin on Fri, 19 July 2019, 20:56:59
Quote
It's almost like the surface area is slightly smaller than my other XDA sets.Good to hear, it was one of my concerns about trying a uniform profile keyset. But they're alps and blank, so i had to get them.
I've used blank caps for years and finally type without looking at all. A lot of times i rest my fingers in-between caps instead of ON certain caps (home row) and use the "steps" between rows (OEM or Cherry profile) to help orient myself. We'll see how it goes with a uniform profile. I think it's more about muscle memory of the location of the caps then what profile they are though.
Post by: HerbalNekoTea on Thu, 25 July 2019, 17:30:24
I am currently at the step of the aluminum case, i did select the alps stabiliser options and alps only plate setting for durability (since i am an heavy typing who heavily bottom out, hence why i am liking Matias Clicky). The guide's saying to use 1.5mm for covers and 3.0mm for bottom, but that for Cherry MX compatible settings. Was would be the dimension for Alps/Matias instead ? Thank you.
Edit : I might probably be confusing the size for the plate. So, it should be the same, right ? Thank you.
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Thu, 25 July 2019, 17:55:24
Post by: HerbalNekoTea on Thu, 25 July 2019, 21:26:45
Yes, the standard thickness for an alps plate is also 1.5mm.
Thank you very much, that mean i can literally move onto my project next month.
Post by: HerbalNekoTea on Fri, 26 July 2019, 00:06:07
I am currently looking for information about Salmon vs. Orange Alps. I had read they are quite similar but the Salmon's more stiffer. I have almost no experience atm. I like my matias clicky i have soldered over my AEK2, i did not like the cream damped switch (also know has ivory), hence why i posted them on ebay. After comparing it a bit with my Outemu Blue switch Havit RGB keyboard. I like the fact the only activation point's bottoming out and there's nothing outside the actuation force who directly bottom out without in-between the matias clicky switch. I hated the fact my outemu blue had the activation a lot higher than the bottoming and it was not directly doing it. I hated the ivory/alps cream damped due to it being too mushy.
Now, about the Salmon vs. Orange. I am a very heavy typing, i type with 2 finger quite fast, making it useless for me to not bottom out due to smashing intensely the key. I had read that orange one feel better but also feel lighter and the salmon one feel more heavier.
Would you recommend Salmon or Orange for me ? Salmon one seem to be a lot cheaper than orange one but i don't mind spending at this range of money, the deal breaker's mostly shipping to canada for certain seller. I also have 3 IBM model M waiting for the bolt and nuts mod due to them having a lot of plastic rivet broken, but from what i halfway tested, they feel good but too light in my opinion (at less for the partially working one).
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 26 July 2019, 08:33:05
I also have 3 IBM model M waiting for the bolt and nuts mod due to them having a lot of plastic rivet broken, but from what i halfway tested, they feel good but too light in my opinion
From what you described, I would have thought that a bolt-modded Model M would be the ideal keyboard for your purposes.
There is actually very little difference between orange and salmon Alps, in my opinion.
Post by: abrahamstechnology on Sat, 27 July 2019, 13:33:53
Yes, the standard thickness for an alps plate is also 1.5mm.
Thank you very much, that mean i can literally move onto my project next month.
The stabilizers won't clip in properly with 1.5, I use 1.2 (as FR-4 plates).
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 13:51:45
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 27 July 2019, 15:01:39
Yes, the standard thickness for an alps plate is also 1.5mm.
Thank you very much, that mean i can literally move onto my project next month.
The stabilizers won't clip in properly with 1.5, I use 1.2 (as FR-4 plates).
Yep, I was thinking 1.2mm
Laserboost started carrying brass in that thickness :)
Post by: GLaDOS on Sat, 27 July 2019, 19:17:39
Post by: cdaman on Mon, 05 August 2019, 11:12:44
Post by: LightningXI on Tue, 06 August 2019, 15:20:53
But I found out I could convert it instead, and it just sounded so good in the original chassis, with its metallic plate and large, hollow plastic case.
So I converted my SKCM Blue Alps Leading Edge DC-2014 to USB :D
Here are some photos:
(https://i.imgur.com/uZOucuM.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VYzE6C5.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/r62naob.png)
And here's a typing test
Post by: nevin on Tue, 06 August 2019, 15:26:38
@LightningXI - very nice.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 06 August 2019, 17:11:41
The other day I got a vintage board with Blue ALPS -- I figured I'd try to harvest and make a clicky Alps custom board some day...Noice! :D Good choice, you were on the verge of throwing away arguably the best-sounding blue Alps chassis xD .
But I found out I could convert it instead, and it just sounded so good in the original chassis, with its metallic plate and large, hollow plastic case.
So I converted my SKCM Blue Alps Leading Edge DC-2014 to USB :D
Here are some photos:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/uZOucuM.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/VYzE6C5.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/r62naob.png)
And here's a typing test
Post by: LightningXI on Tue, 06 August 2019, 17:18:09
The other day I got a vintage board with Blue ALPS -- I figured I'd try to harvest and make a clicky Alps custom board some day...Noice! :D Good choice, you were on the verge of throwing away arguably the best-sounding blue Alps chassis xD .
But I found out I could convert it instead, and it just sounded so good in the original chassis, with its metallic plate and large, hollow plastic case.
So I converted my SKCM Blue Alps Leading Edge DC-2014 to USB :D
Here are some photos:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/uZOucuM.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/VYzE6C5.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/r62naob.png)
And here's a typing test
Funny thing -- I don't throw away most if not all chassis, especially if they can be re-assembled (I am very careful with the harvesting process). But indeed, likely one of the best sounds for SKCM Blue Alps that I have heard.
Post by: romevi on Tue, 06 August 2019, 19:03:54
Post by: EMC Labs on Tue, 06 August 2019, 20:24:38
I still have the body of an M0116 that I have no idea what to do with.
Give it to me, of course.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 08 August 2019, 16:34:58
Post by: romevi on Thu, 08 August 2019, 16:48:04
I still have the body of an M0116 that I have no idea what to do with.
Give it to me, of course.
Wait, I'm dumb. I meant M0118.
Post by: nevin on Fri, 09 August 2019, 06:05:50
Post by: 4sStylZ on Sun, 18 August 2019, 17:50:14
(https://i.redd.it/pgjd6hkwh9h31.jpg)
https://imgur.com/gallery/hBCB9IV (https://imgur.com/gallery/hBCB9IV)
Specs :
- Apple extended keyboard II from 95
- French Azerty ISO version
- Original plate cutted and painted
- 3D printed sub frame (The bronze support, see image below)
- Originals Alps cream linearized with dampers
- Originals keycaps dye subbed with Lilas I-poly.
- Run with QMK on a Teensy 2++
- Completly handwired (because there is no PCB for AEK ISO)
Run QMK Firmware
If you know how I can find others alps used keyboards with some cool keycaps like cyrilic, japanese, korean it would be very appreciated.
Tell me what did you think about this one.
Post by: nevin on Sun, 18 August 2019, 20:01:25
alternate/interesting legends.... bout the only thing that comes to mind is some of the macway keyboards example (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Macway-Datacomp-TP-997KB-J-Japanese-English-ADB-Keyboard-for-Apple-Macintosh/223585348362?hash=item340eb9ab0a:g:1F4AAOSwKzVdKZeb). there was also the ibm "pingmaster (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=89137.0)" but those were the older SKCC switches
a quick search turned up a couple others
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=13254
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2289453#msg2289453
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.msg2289498#msg2289498
Post by: 4sStylZ on Mon, 19 August 2019, 07:38:37
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 26 August 2019, 18:49:42
- Originals Alps cream linearized with dampers
You used the Creams that you find in NeXt keyboards, or the ones you find in AEK II? I'm confused as to what you mean by Original Creams with Dampers
Post by: nevin on Tue, 27 August 2019, 07:03:54
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 27 August 2019, 07:35:52
My first build ever :Show Image(https://i.redd.it/pgjd6hkwh9h31.jpg)
https://imgur.com/gallery/hBCB9IV (https://imgur.com/gallery/hBCB9IV)
Specs :
- Apple extended keyboard II from 95
- French Azerty ISO version
- Original plate cutted and painted
- 3D printed sub frame (The bronze support, see image below)
- Originals Alps cream linearized with dampers
- Originals keycaps dye subbed with Lilas I-poly.
- Run with QMK on a Teensy 2++
- Completly handwired (because there is no PCB for AEK ISO)
Run QMK Firmware
If you know how I can find others alps used keyboards with some cool keycaps like cyrilic, japanese, korean it would be very appreciated.
Tell me what did you think about this one.
That does look great with the dyed mods! I'm gonna have pick up some ipoly & do some experimenting myself. I got a bunch of extra keys from an AEKII & M0116 that I could give it a try on.
Post by: nevin on Tue, 27 August 2019, 09:02:47
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 27 August 2019, 09:25:23
@Rob27shred - don't be afraid to mix strong & limit time. check frequently.Thanks for the tips!
Post by: directheatedtriode on Wed, 04 September 2019, 10:04:38
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 04 September 2019, 10:27:13
For a switch transplant into an AT101, does it make a big difference which AT101 to chose in terms of feel and sound? Most of the newer ones with newer logo are cheaper and with keycaps in better condition.
That is a good question, I would assume the cases themselves remained mostly the same through the life of the AT101. I can't see Dell bothering having new molds made for the cases just to save a tiny bit of plastic, also the plates are 1.2mm standardized for ALPS switches AFAIK, but they could use cheaper steel for the later models. I own a newer AT101W & a SGI AT101. The SGI one is a good bit heftier, but I think it is a poor board to compare to regular AT101s since SGI systems were so expensive I'd think they'd make the keyboards higher quality than regular 101s. That is the only comparison points I have though, so the main differences between the two are the SGI has much higher quality keycaps & I think it uses higher quality heavier steel for the plate. The plastic for the case may be different as well, but I don't know about that for sure.
Really I think Dell cut costs by moving to much cheaper keycaps, probably cheaper steel for the plates, & probably cheaper PCBs/components on the PCB. Hopefully someone who has an older & newer AT101 can chime in to better clarify the differences. Although for a switch swap, if it were me, I would go for an older one if you need the keycaps & PCB, if you have keycaps & a replacement PCB already I'd go for a newer one to save the money since it'll be just the case & plate you need.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 04 September 2019, 16:10:49
I recommend a "W" model so that you can get Windows keys, and black cases are nice, although the caps are pad printed. You can get replacement caps, but you have to dig deeper to get space bar and CapsLock.
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 04 September 2019, 17:13:23
The Dell is a great chassis for transplantation if you can live with the larger footprint. The earliest models had a steel plate purely for weight attached in the bottom case shell, probably about 500g
I recommend a "W" model so that you can get Windows keys, and black cases are nice, although the caps are pad printed. You can get replacement caps, but you have to dig deeper to get space bar and CapsLock.
Hey we're AT101W brothers, LOL!
[attach=1]
I managed to get the regular Caps Lock key to work by clipping the stem in half & wedging it into the switch with a piece of plastic toothpick. It worked surprisingly well, it doesn't even come off when I blow it down with my metro vac! The spacebar I got to work with the 3D printed adapters sold during the Nexus slider/housing GB, but I'm pretty sure you can find open source files for ones if you have access to a 3D printer or there are also some people who sell them on Shapeways.
Post by: directheatedtriode on Wed, 04 September 2019, 20:59:30
Posting from my phone so I can't check the Deskthority wiki- I take it every AT101 is Alps based?
Post by: directheatedtriode on Wed, 04 September 2019, 21:02:42
The other day I got a vintage board with Blue ALPS -- I figured I'd try to harvest and make a clicky Alps custom board some day...
I will just add I had two SKCM blue customs, one TKL swapped into a Filco Zero and another that was in a KBDFans 60% and the sound of blue Alps is no where near what you get in a large vintage case, it starts to sound closer to Box Royals in these small cases.
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 04 September 2019, 21:08:34
Yeah, there definitely is something beautiful about the sound of the switches in the big old chassis. Like the switch was meant to be in itThe other day I got a vintage board with Blue ALPS -- I figured I'd try to harvest and make a clicky Alps custom board some day...
I will just add I had two SKCM blue customs, one TKL swapped into a Filco Zero and another that was in a KBDFans 60% and the sound of blue Alps is no where near what you get in a large vintage case, it starts to sound closer to Box Royals in these small cases.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 05 September 2019, 02:14:35
Yeah, there definitely is something beautiful about the sound of the switches in the big old chassis. Like the switch was meant to be in itThe other day I got a vintage board with Blue ALPS -- I figured I'd try to harvest and make a clicky Alps custom board some day...
I will just add I had two SKCM blue customs, one TKL swapped into a Filco Zero and another that was in a KBDFans 60% and the sound of blue Alps is no where near what you get in a large vintage case, it starts to sound closer to Box Royals in these small cases.
<3 :D
Post by: _rubik on Thu, 05 September 2019, 10:34:15
Yeah, there definitely is something beautiful about the sound of the switches in the big old chassis. Like the switch was meant to be in itThe other day I got a vintage board with Blue ALPS -- I figured I'd try to harvest and make a clicky Alps custom board some day...
I will just add I had two SKCM blue customs, one TKL swapped into a Filco Zero and another that was in a KBDFans 60% and the sound of blue Alps is no where near what you get in a large vintage case, it starts to sound closer to Box Royals in these small cases.
<3 :D
I hate to say it, but I regret harvesting my blues... They belonged in that case; such a waste of a vintage board. Younger me made dumb life choices :-X
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sat, 14 September 2019, 20:20:20
the deskthority wiki is missing weights for those two.
you can always swap in lighter spring.
light tactile... me too.... keep us posted on your findings.
From watching videos by Chyrosan, and reading Deskthority it seems as if Orange Alps are 55-60 gr in actuation, while Salmon Alps are 65-70. That makes sense, since Orange Alps at 55-60 are close to some of my favourite MX switches, although a little heavier than I am used to.
Brown Alps bottom out at 70. Actuation and bottom-out weights are similar on Alps switches. Orange, Salmon, and Brown tend to actuate near the bottom-out weights of MX light tactiles like Browns, 62 gr Zealios, and blues (which are also tactile). In fact, Orange is close to or the same as MX Blues, and I have good experiences with similar switches.
Post by: ollir_ on Sun, 15 September 2019, 01:46:21
The Dell is a great chassis for transplantation if you can live with the larger footprint. The earliest models had a steel plate purely for weight attached in the bottom case shell, probably about 500g
I recommend a "W" model so that you can get Windows keys, and black cases are nice, although the caps are pad printed. You can get replacement caps, but you have to dig deeper to get space bar and CapsLock.
Hey we're AT101W brothers, LOL!
(Attachment Link)
I managed to get the regular Caps Lock key to work by clipping the stem in half & wedging it into the switch with a piece of plastic toothpick. It worked surprisingly well, it doesn't even come off when I blow it down with my metro vac! The spacebar I got to work with the 3D printed adapters sold during the Nexus slider/housing GB, but I'm pretty sure you can find open source files for ones if you have access to a 3D printer or there are also some people who sell them on Shapeways.
Sup.
(https://i.imgur.com/OGdVCYs.jpg)
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 15 September 2019, 07:14:02
The Dell is a great chassis for transplantation if you can live with the larger footprint. The earliest models had a steel plate purely for weight attached in the bottom case shell, probably about 500g
I recommend a "W" model so that you can get Windows keys, and black cases are nice, although the caps are pad printed. You can get replacement caps, but you have to dig deeper to get space bar and CapsLock.
Hey we're AT101W brothers, LOL!
(Attachment Link)
I managed to get the regular Caps Lock key to work by clipping the stem in half & wedging it into the switch with a piece of plastic toothpick. It worked surprisingly well, it doesn't even come off when I blow it down with my metro vac! The spacebar I got to work with the 3D printed adapters sold during the Nexus slider/housing GB, but I'm pretty sure you can find open source files for ones if you have access to a 3D printer or there are also some people who sell them on Shapeways.
Sup.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/OGdVCYs.jpg)
Nice, another lost brother found! Black Dell bigfoot/Tai-Hao ALPS Dolch crew rise! :p
Post by: gofoyo on Mon, 16 September 2019, 06:09:22
Post by: directheatedtriode on Tue, 17 September 2019, 17:50:39
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69740.msg2811155#msg2811155
My spacebar is missing that grey cylinder piece, but it is on the left side and my issues are primarily on the right side of the spacebar.
Post by: nevin on Tue, 17 September 2019, 18:10:17
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 18 September 2019, 11:15:02
Post by: nevin on Wed, 18 September 2019, 11:42:38
Some good spraypaint will work (that adhere's to plastic). Just, at least, quadruple the curing time, and don't touch it till then. Give the case a good once over with a scotchbrite pad or something to rough up the surface so the paint has something good to bite into. scotchbrite will take the shine off the abs without leaving marks like sandpaper.
Any of the creams for sale/trade? I picked up an AEKII which has the later white dampened.
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 18 September 2019, 13:16:49
@_rubik - AEKII case is plastic, it would melt. Powder coating is a treatment done to metal to give it a thicker/tougher finish than paint.
Some good spraypaint will work (that adhere's to plastic). Just, at least, quadruple the curing time, and don't touch it till then. Give the case a good once over with a scotchbrite pad or something to rough up the surface so the paint has something good to bite into. scotchbrite will take the shine off the abs without leaving marks like sandpaper.
Any of the creams for sale/trade? I picked up an AEKII which has the later white dampened.
Err... not powder coat. I was thinking of the process performed on the TKC1800s which I guess is just Urethane based paints. Wonder where I can get that done locally? hmmm...
As for selling -- I'm not selling any at the moment, but, when I do, you're the first person I'll ping.
Post by: nevin on Wed, 18 September 2019, 13:40:37
Post by: Firebolt1914 on Tue, 24 September 2019, 18:03:30
I can't believe I had gone 5+ years in keyboards without ever trying them out!
I'm now currently working on converting my LK1800-fe into supporting Alps. I've already acquired and lubed up some orange Alps switches, and got most of a keycap set. All I need to do is finish up the plate, make sure it works, and then get it made.
I had no idea that tactile Alps switches were that much better than any MX option. Someone should have convinced me sooner.
Post by: LightningXI on Tue, 24 September 2019, 18:04:43
After being a long time capacitive buckling springs fan who thought there was no need for everything else (other than for layout and convenience), I finally got myself to try Alps.
I can't believe I had gone 5+ years in keyboards without ever trying them out!
I'm now currently working on converting my LK1800-fe into supporting Alps. I've already acquired and lubed up some orange Alps switches, and got most of a keycap set. All I need to do is finish up the plate, make sure it works, and then get it made.
I had no idea that tactile Alps switches were that much better than any MX option. Someone should have convinced me sooner.
Topre and Alps are so much better tactiles than MX.
Buckling Spring imo is still its own beast in clicky typing.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 24 September 2019, 19:32:46
Someone should have convinced me sooner.
Some people read what Chyros says.
Post by: Rob27shred on Tue, 24 September 2019, 20:32:54
Someone should have convinced me sooner.
Some people read what Chyros says.
For real though, his videos & posts on here/DT is one of the biggest reasons I started looking onto ALPS switches.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 25 September 2019, 05:58:33
LOL xD
Someone should have convinced me sooner.
Some people read what Chyros says.
Post by: HungerMechanic on Wed, 25 September 2019, 14:06:12
I knew it not long after getting into keyboards in August last year. It didn't take many searches for 'better MX tactiles' to learn that the best MX 'upgrade' is to Alps. It was confirmed instantly when I attended a meetup.
It was obvious then that I could just skip MX and go straight to ALPS, but I gave Cherry a chance. Still am, by the way. Have Zilents on order.
But Orange / Brown ALPS are the true end-game for tactiles.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:30:42
Sup.
Nice, another lost brother found! Black Dell bigfoot/Tai-Hao ALPS Dolch crew rise!
Can someone tell me where and/or how to order the alternate CapsLock that will fit the AT101?
I tried Mechanical Keyboards but they are making like they don't know what I am talking about.
Thanks!
Post by: Sup on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:34:19
Sup.
Nice, another lost brother found! Black Dell bigfoot/Tai-Hao ALPS Dolch crew rise!
Can someone tell me where and/or how to order the alternate CapsLock that will fit the AT101?
I tried Mechanical Keyboards but they are making like they don't know what I am talking about.
Thanks!
Since it's a stepped you can't really buy one online then harvesting it from a other DELL AT101, And yeah Mechanical keyboard reddit is all about Anne pro's and tao hao keycaps not a good place to ask for advice.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:38:53
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 05 October 2019, 00:26:58
Post by: romevi on Sat, 05 October 2019, 02:06:33
Post by: mode on Wed, 06 November 2019, 00:52:20
Got a board with orange Alps. Forgot how amazing they are.
I'm cleaning a set up now, I've only ever used them in somewhat dirty condition, and thus far still prefer the fairly pristine salmons I transplanted into my daily driver ISO AEKII.
Curious to see how much of a difference there is, I'm not expecting the world tbh!
The best reason to be desoldering switches from a vintage board is to replace them with better switches!
Post by: envyy24 on Wed, 13 November 2019, 17:08:11
Dell At102, black alps. As I have researched from the internet, this is not the best alps switch ever. But I have had not much experience with mechanical keyboard anyways, So yeah Im still very excited regardless.
Plus, the keyboard is brand new, sit perfectly in a box and has never bene used before. And I had a good deal on it. So yeah, wth, it is a win for me.
The keyboard is absolutely huge, and I love it XD. Typing on it for a bit (this post right here!), I think the feel is alright. The key feels stiff to me, but at the same time is quite responsive. I am not flying all over the keyboard, but at the same time I am not an superb typist anyways.
I would say though, it is definitely enough for me to put a cherry clone blue switch away immediately. God that thing is awful I can't locate the key at all, plus the noise is unbearable. Overall, this keyboard will be my working keyboard for the time being, the key caps are well put together I can locate them all pretty easy. I have seen a few videos about modding the black alps switch, however I am not too sure if I should do it because hunting a reasonable price one like this already hard enough for me. Do not want to mess anything up.
Anyways, just a newbie in this mechanical kb game, experiencing an alps switch for the first time and is super excited to share it. You all have a great day XD
(https://i.imgur.com/prsKbYt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4Vydw7r.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wP8Ulw0.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 13 November 2019, 17:26:50
That is an early one, if it has PBT caps you should consider yourself especially lucky. Test it with acetone (aka fingernail polish remover) - touch a tiny drop on the inside of a key cap with a toothpick and scratch around a bit. PBT caps will be unharmed, ABS will melt slightly and you will see the scratch.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 13 November 2019, 18:27:37
Post by: envyy24 on Thu, 14 November 2019, 02:21:43
AT101 gets less respect than it should. After you break it in, you should find that it is a very pleasant workhorse.I also feel that I would absolutely love this keyboard once getting used to it. It is so well design in my opinion, I make noticeably less typo using this than my last one for sure.
That is an early one, if it has PBT caps you should consider yourself especially lucky. Test it with acetone (aka fingernail polish remover) - touch a tiny drop on the inside of a key cap with a toothpick and scratch around a bit. PBT caps will be unharmed, ABS will melt slightly and you will see the scratch.
Neat, I will test it out just to see. Do they make any difference?
Very nice, congrats! :) I maintain an AT101 should be everyone's first board :D . And NOS is the best stock!
Thank you, though I am unsure what is NOS :p
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 14 November 2019, 09:07:54
Considering buying some for a board, but his MX springs were never in line with other makers, and stock, as far as weighting goes.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 14 November 2019, 10:08:57
what weight were you thinking of getting?
what switch were you planning to swap them into?
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 14 November 2019, 10:42:47
@DALExSNAIL - worth a shot. and really the only way to get lighter alps. i grabbed a set for a build i have planned. i think i remember reading somewhere the initial issues were worked out in the last year or two. obviously the only other option would be to harvest from other switches.
what weight were you thinking of getting?
what switch were you planning to swap them into?
Well I was hoping for 45 or 50, but leaning into the 45 a bit more. The problem there is only that I was hoping to swap into quiet clicks, and I'm not sure if the force from those springs would allow a proper return, or if it would get stuck, similar to ergoclears with springs too light.
I'd be open to other suggestions though, as far as alps go, since it's really where I'm least knowledgeable keyboard wise. Really trying to get in the MX cherry silent reds, and cherry browns weight range. Prefer tactile, but don't need super super tactile. For reference my favorite switches are vintage browns lol.
Also dunno how limited swap options are for matias housings. Really trying to avoid desoldering on the Model 01 if I can (and I'm pretty sure I can mod alps without desoldering?) plus the diffusing from the clear housings is very nice.
Post by: Riverman on Thu, 14 November 2019, 10:55:44
Thank you, though I am unsure what is NOS :pIt's an abbreviation for New Old Stock.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 14 November 2019, 11:04:41
looking at sprits site (https://www.spritdesigns.com/alps)... says 45 is similar to green linears (which are 50-ish), matias linear & tactiles. but would feel like a heavier weight in a tactile or clicky switch (resistance of contact & tactile leafs)
Quote
Please consider additional forces of Contact leaf(5-10cN) & 2nd Leaf(5-15cN)so, really doubt that you would notice a big difference.
yes, alps can be opened without desoldering. little different than MX but still totally do-able.
funny, your tastes seem to line up with what i was going for with my next project. i actually have 45cn sprit springs, alps green springs, and a bunch of older apple boards (including a dampened white alps AEKII '95)
i could do some experimenting with what i have, but would have time for another week or two.
i am also typing on a board with ergo clears (cherry clear stem/top housing, gateron brown spring/bottom housing) and have had no issues with stems not returning.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 14 November 2019, 11:22:24
quiet clicks... they're already a bit lighter (60/35 per their site) than normal dampened alps (usually around 70-ish)
looking at sprits site (https://www.spritdesigns.com/alps)... says 45 is similar to green linears (which are 50-ish), matias linear & tactiles. but would feel like a heavier weight in a tactile or clicky switch (resistance of contact & tactile leafs)QuotePlease consider additional forces of Contact leaf(5-10cN) & 2nd Leaf(5-15cN)so, really doubt that you would notice a big difference.
yes, alps can be opened without desoldering. little different than MX but still totally do-able.
funny, your tastes seem to line up with what i was going for with my next project. i actually have 45cn sprit springs, alps green springs, and a bunch of older apple boards (including a dampened white alps AEKII '95)
i could do some experimenting with what i have, but would have time for another week or two.
i am also typing on a board with ergo clears (cherry clear stem/top housing, gateron brown spring/bottom housing) and have had no issues with stems not returning.
I've not had issues with ergos in the past, I've used 62g in all I've used though. Just have heard that a lot of people saying that when using light springs with no lube, they've had issues.
I guess the weighting of the initial bump is really what's getting me maybe, if it drops to 35? It's mostly my right pinky that's having issues, but I do feel fatigue in my other fingers over time in my left hand. My pinky has early signs of trigger finger, so I've been trying to avoid straining it as much as possible really, I just really like tactility tbh. Alps might just be too tactile across the board though because of the design, so I'm hoping I don't have to just swap to linear.
Definitely tell me any results you have on the testing though, I'm going to take this decision a bit slower than normal, as I don't plan on swapping keyboards for the foreseeable future, so wanna get something right early on.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 14 November 2019, 11:34:21
...how low can you go... lol
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sun, 17 November 2019, 08:54:26
Things I like about Blue Alps
- Click mechanism is way better than anything else
- Weighting is perfect. Lighter than white alps but not too light
- The sound is luxurious. It is like summer rain on a grassy meadow
- The feel is so good!! It's like my hands are punching holes in the keyboard
tl;dr Blue alps are good switches, someone find me a thick 60% plastic case
Post by: Sintpinty on Sun, 17 November 2019, 12:30:22
Wish i could get my hands on a AEK right now , got my paycheck just a few days ago
Post by: envyy24 on Tue, 19 November 2019, 14:49:52
GUYS my blue alps came in the mail! Even though I don't like clicky switches they are still really good!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Things I like about Blue Alps
What is the name of the keyboard, if I may ask?
Post by: mode on Wed, 20 November 2019, 04:46:00
What do people recommend using for fluid?
Post by: d.caminero on Wed, 20 November 2019, 07:39:44
I have a blue alps board in terrible condition, the switches bind and are really scratchy. I tried a manual clean on a few switches but they still kinda sucked so I invested in an ultrasonic bath.
What do people recommend using for fluid?
If they are not too dirty, you can clean them with distilled water (and rinse them after with new distilled water if needed). If they are dirty, just use tap water with some detergent, either the typical green one for ultrasonic cleaners or regular non-scented detergent. If you use regular detergent add a tad of soap. You must rinse them with distilled water after that though.
Post by: TheInverseKey on Wed, 20 November 2019, 09:46:26
I have a blue alps board in terrible condition, the switches bind and are really scratchy. I tried a manual clean on a few switches but they still kinda sucked so I invested in an ultrasonic bath.
What do people recommend using for fluid?
I would clean the bottom housings and then get NOS Pine White top housings and swap the top housings. Now this will make the switches a bit higher pitched but the amount of smoothness that you get back from the new top housings is worth it.
Post by: mode on Wed, 20 November 2019, 09:57:51
I have a blue alps board in terrible condition, the switches bind and are really scratchy. I tried a manual clean on a few switches but they still kinda sucked so I invested in an ultrasonic bath.
What do people recommend using for fluid?
I would clean the bottom housings and then get NOS Pine White top housings and swap the top housings. Now this will make the switches a bit higher pitched but the amount of smoothness that you get back from the new top housings is worth it.
Not sure I can be bothered to get a clean set of whites though. I bought this board cheaply on a whim, as I prefer tactile switches, just wanted to see what blues are like. Cleaning is definitely my next step before any further investment.
Post by: gaunt on Thu, 28 November 2019, 12:31:37
Would also be interested in non-group buy cases if anyone has some experience with them, think I saw a 66% alu or steel case that was Alps-compatible a few years ago but now I can't remember the name of it for the life of me.
Post by: mode on Thu, 28 November 2019, 15:01:01
Hello fellow Alps lovers. I've been using an m0116 with Orange Alps for the last year or so which has been a blast, but for my daily driver I really need n-key rollover and I'd prefer a bit more of a standard layout. Now I'm looking for a case for a new build, but I haven't kept a close eye on group buys for a while, and most of what I've seen lately seem to only support Cherry. Are there any interesting upcoming cases that are Alps-compatible? Haven't heard anything about the UEK for a while. I also really liked the look of the Lunar AEK (and would probably prefer a 66% or TKL layout) but unfortunately didn't have the money at the time and now they're quite expensive on the used market.
Would also be interested in non-group buy cases if anyone has some experience with them, think I saw a 66% alu or steel case that was Alps-compatible a few years ago but now I can't remember the name of it for the life of me.
The tex case works with the LFKeyboards SMK-TKL pcb, I just finished a build, I had the plate made for it from laserboost.
Post by: Pheyn on Thu, 28 November 2019, 19:02:49
is there any physical difference between skcl yellows & greens? I read that the yellow spring is heavier, but if I throw a green spring in a yellow switch, would there be any actual difference in feel or sound? Thanks :D
Post by: nevin on Fri, 29 November 2019, 07:28:08
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
@gaunt - when looking, check the switch footprint on the pcb, if they look like this they are MX & Alps compatible. a good many PCBs support alps.
[attach=1]
photo: Keeb.io - Quefrency (split staggered 60-65%)
Post by: chyros on Fri, 29 November 2019, 07:33:25
Hey all,yes, there are differences besides the weighting, but they're not that huge if you have pine yellows.
is there any physical difference between skcl yellows & greens? I read that the yellow spring is heavier, but if I throw a green spring in a yellow switch, would there be any actual difference in feel or sound? Thanks :D
Post by: mode on Fri, 29 November 2019, 07:53:01
It works! It's nice to type on, it does have a slight tradeoff, comparing it to an M0116 for reference, off centre keypresses have some resistance to them, so i've started applying a trace of ptfe lube to the modifier keys, the main alphas are just fine.
I'll use it as a daily driver for a few weeks and report my thoughts on it in more detail once I've gotten used to it.
Post by: mode on Fri, 29 November 2019, 09:05:29
Post by: d.caminero on Fri, 29 November 2019, 09:44:00
I finally finished a project of mine today, assembling an SKCM orange board with nexus sliders, modified original top housings and a set of SA Dasher in a tex aluminium TKL case. I tried the nexus housings, but they suffered from terrible binding.
It works! It's nice to type on, it does have a slight tradeoff, comparing it to an M0116 for reference, off centre keypresses have some resistance to them, so i've started applying a trace of ptfe lube to the modifier keys, the main alphas are just fine.
I'll use it as a daily driver for a few weeks and report my thoughts on it in more detail once I've gotten used to it.
After getting the cruciformer I also built a project that's been ongoing for a long time. GMK Yuri in a pearl keyboard with orange alps and nexus sliders. I did use the nexus housings as well, but after seeing the binding issue, I just filed them a bit instead of filing the original housings. Still want to try some with original housings though, I think it changes the feeling quite a bit.
Let us know your impressions!
Post by: mode on Fri, 29 November 2019, 09:50:58
I finally finished a project of mine today, assembling an SKCM orange board with nexus sliders, modified original top housings and a set of SA Dasher in a tex aluminium TKL case. I tried the nexus housings, but they suffered from terrible binding.
It works! It's nice to type on, it does have a slight tradeoff, comparing it to an M0116 for reference, off centre keypresses have some resistance to them, so i've started applying a trace of ptfe lube to the modifier keys, the main alphas are just fine.
I'll use it as a daily driver for a few weeks and report my thoughts on it in more detail once I've gotten used to it.
After getting the cruciformer I also built a project that's been ongoing for a long time. GMK Yuri in a pearl keyboard with orange alps and nexus sliders. I did use the nexus housings as well, but after seeing the binding issue, I just filed them a bit instead of filing the original housings. Still want to try some with original housings though, I think it changes the feeling quite a bit.
Let us know your impressions!
I did the same, but found that something about POM on POM results in a squeeky binding feeling with off axis keypresses, it just didn't feel right. I did 6 switches in a cluster for testing and I just wasn't happy with it. I sacreficed a bamboo dampened white top housing to experiment with and that was so much better I took the plunge with a set of oranges. These feel like alps through and through.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 02 December 2019, 12:30:40
GUYS my blue alps came in the mail! Even though I don't like clicky switches they are still really good!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Things I like about Blue Alps
What is the name of the keyboard, if I may ask?
This is a late reply :) The keyboard is unidentifiable, but on the PCB I have found a marking that reads: KB-5161EA
Post by: Rob27shred on Mon, 02 December 2019, 13:21:14
GUYS my blue alps came in the mail! Even though I don't like clicky switches they are still really good!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Things I like about Blue Alps
What is the name of the keyboard, if I may ask?
This is a late reply :) The keyboard is unidentifiable, but on the PCB I have found a marking that reads: KB-5161EA
Sounds like a Chicony model no., but I'm no expert on vintage boards so don't take that as gospel.
Post by: mode on Wed, 04 December 2019, 05:06:25
I experimented with swapping the sliders as I have a ton of spare from my nexus slider build and to my surprise the slider was what made the difference. I much prefer my blues with orange sliders in.
Looking at them close up, the plastic on the blues is a little more textured. Lube doesn't make a difference, unlubed orange sliders are better than lubed blue ones.
Post by: chyros on Wed, 04 December 2019, 06:28:27
I've cleaned up some SKCM blues and noticed something about them, despite looking perfectly clean they're just not as smooth as my SKCM oranges, a switch I'm significantly more familiar with. They're not bad at all, just the oranges don't stick when pressed off centre at all, even at extreme angles.This is a condition thing. Alps switches in good condition don't bind on off-centre keypresses. Most often, in my experience, the part at fault is the slider track in the upper housing. This has the potential to get rough with use, increasing friction. Also in my experience, lubrication only shows very limited success, and is no substitute for buying good-condition switches. As such, your findings are directly in line with mine.
I experimented with swapping the sliders as I have a ton of spare from my nexus slider build and to my surprise the slider was what made the difference. I much prefer my blues with orange sliders in.
Looking at them close up, the plastic on the blues is a little more textured. Lube doesn't make a difference, unlubed orange sliders are better than lubed blue ones.
Post by: mode on Wed, 04 December 2019, 06:40:42
I've cleaned up some SKCM blues and noticed something about them, despite looking perfectly clean they're just not as smooth as my SKCM oranges, a switch I'm significantly more familiar with. They're not bad at all, just the oranges don't stick when pressed off centre at all, even at extreme angles.This is a condition thing. Alps switches in good condition don't bind on off-centre keypresses. Most often, in my experience, the part at fault is the slider track in the upper housing. This has the potential to get rough with use, increasing friction. Also in my experience, lubrication only shows very limited success, and is no substitute for buying good-condition switches. As such, your findings are directly in line with mine.
I experimented with swapping the sliders as I have a ton of spare from my nexus slider build and to my surprise the slider was what made the difference. I much prefer my blues with orange sliders in.
Looking at them close up, the plastic on the blues is a little more textured. Lube doesn't make a difference, unlubed orange sliders are better than lubed blue ones.
Either way, I'm probably going to swap in the orange sliders, kind of annoying not to keep them original, but they do feel that much better.
Post by: Rob27shred on Wed, 04 December 2019, 07:28:42
I've cleaned up some SKCM blues and noticed something about them, despite looking perfectly clean they're just not as smooth as my SKCM oranges, a switch I'm significantly more familiar with. They're not bad at all, just the oranges don't stick when pressed off centre at all, even at extreme angles.This is a condition thing. Alps switches in good condition don't bind on off-centre keypresses. Most often, in my experience, the part at fault is the slider track in the upper housing. This has the potential to get rough with use, increasing friction. Also in my experience, lubrication only shows very limited success, and is no substitute for buying good-condition switches. As such, your findings are directly in line with mine.
I experimented with swapping the sliders as I have a ton of spare from my nexus slider build and to my surprise the slider was what made the difference. I much prefer my blues with orange sliders in.
Looking at them close up, the plastic on the blues is a little more textured. Lube doesn't make a difference, unlubed orange sliders are better than lubed blue ones.
Either way, I'm probably going to swap in the orange sliders, kind of annoying not to keep them original, but they do feel that much better.
Well SKCM blues & oranges ran at the same time for a bit I believe. Also the major difference between clicky & tactile SKCM ALPS is the secondary leaf (tactile or click leaf), so other than visually for all intents & purposes they are the same as better condition blues.
Post by: Sintpinty on Wed, 04 December 2019, 11:10:33
I've cleaned up some SKCM blues and noticed something about them, despite looking perfectly clean they're just not as smooth as my SKCM oranges, a switch I'm significantly more familiar with. They're not bad at all, just the oranges don't stick when pressed off centre at all, even at extreme angles.This is a condition thing. Alps switches in good condition don't bind on off-centre keypresses. Most often, in my experience, the part at fault is the slider track in the upper housing. This has the potential to get rough with use, increasing friction. Also in my experience, lubrication only shows very limited success, and is no substitute for buying good-condition switches. As such, your findings are directly in line with mine.
I experimented with swapping the sliders as I have a ton of spare from my nexus slider build and to my surprise the slider was what made the difference. I much prefer my blues with orange sliders in.
Looking at them close up, the plastic on the blues is a little more textured. Lube doesn't make a difference, unlubed orange sliders are better than lubed blue ones.
Either way, I'm probably going to swap in the orange sliders, kind of annoying not to keep them original, but they do feel that much better.
Well SKCM blues & oranges ran at the same time for a bit I believe. Also the major difference between clicky & tactile SKCM ALPS is the secondary leaf (tactile or click leaf), so other than visually for all intents & purposes they are the same as better condition blues.
>_<
I want alps
Post by: nickaster1 on Wed, 04 December 2019, 21:12:01
Heya folks, wanna share my little project that came to fruition recently. Featuring the King of Tactiles, Alps SKCM Browns on a FR4 plate. The enclosure is a custom cut, bonded (which failed horrendously at QC but somehow the guy let it slipped), and painted (which also failed, but hey it looks good on pics) acrylic Orion V3. Also leds because Ducks.
Post by: ErgoMacros on Wed, 04 December 2019, 21:39:28
... Also leds because Ducks...
Nicely linearized waterfowl.
Post by: d.caminero on Thu, 05 December 2019, 08:15:53
Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/e2e56dceba9ea707ac5c7c92f75cce83.jpg)
Heya folks, wanna share my little project that came to fruition recently. Featuring the King of Tactiles, Alps SKCM Browns on a FR4 plate. The enclosure is a custom cut, bonded (which failed horrendously at QC but somehow the guy let it slipped), and painted (which also failed, but hey it looks good on pics) acrylic Orion V3. Also leds because Ducks.
How are the browns on an FR4 plate? Specially compared to on a regular aluminium plate. Does the plate drown the tactility bump?
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 05 December 2019, 11:30:18
Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/e2e56dceba9ea707ac5c7c92f75cce83.jpg)
Heya folks, wanna share my little project that came to fruition recently. Featuring the King of Tactiles, Alps SKCM Browns on a FR4 plate. The enclosure is a custom cut, bonded (which failed horrendously at QC but somehow the guy let it slipped), and painted (which also failed, but hey it looks good on pics) acrylic Orion V3. Also leds because Ducks.
Reminds me of a yellowed M0116, where the keycaps are all white, while the space and case have yellowed over time :)
Post by: ppCircle on Fri, 06 December 2019, 07:17:27
(https://i.imgur.com/ZHJ5slJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2r0Kllw.jpg)
More photos: https://imgur.com/a/uxBlQ6n
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 06 December 2019, 08:08:14
My new find fk-747 with polish sub legendsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZHJ5slJ.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/2r0Kllw.jpg)
More photos: https://imgur.com/a/uxBlQ6n
Wow, looks nice. However i feel that those keycaps will get old with age
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 06 December 2019, 08:33:21
i feel that those keycaps will get old with age
You are obviously going for the Yogi Berra award with these odd syntax structures.
Post by: nickaster1 on Fri, 06 December 2019, 20:50:54
Not a bit. They make the bottom out very pleasant since the browns have such a violent tactile event. I like soft plates for all kinds of switches since I used to have SKCM Blues on sus and it was painful to typeShow Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/e2e56dceba9ea707ac5c7c92f75cce83.jpg)
Heya folks, wanna share my little project that came to fruition recently. Featuring the King of Tactiles, Alps SKCM Browns on a FR4 plate. The enclosure is a custom cut, bonded (which failed horrendously at QC but somehow the guy let it slipped), and painted (which also failed, but hey it looks good on pics) acrylic Orion V3. Also leds because Ducks.
How are the browns on an FR4 plate? Specially compared to on a regular aluminium plate. Does the plate drown the tactility bump?
Post by: d.caminero on Mon, 09 December 2019, 04:27:10
Not a bit. They make the bottom out very pleasant since the browns have such a violent tactile event. I like soft plates for all kinds of switches since I used to have SKCM Blues on sus and it was painful to type
Interesting! I will have to try it, since the only thing I dislike (though not much) is the harsh bottom out of my SKCM brown in the Lunar AEK. Thanks!
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 09 December 2019, 21:15:08
Not a bit. They make the bottom out very pleasant since the browns have such a violent tactile event. I like soft plates for all kinds of switches since I used to have SKCM Blues on sus and it was painful to typeShow Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/e2e56dceba9ea707ac5c7c92f75cce83.jpg)
Heya folks, wanna share my little project that came to fruition recently. Featuring the King of Tactiles, Alps SKCM Browns on a FR4 plate. The enclosure is a custom cut, bonded (which failed horrendously at QC but somehow the guy let it slipped), and painted (which also failed, but hey it looks good on pics) acrylic Orion V3. Also leds because Ducks.
How are the browns on an FR4 plate? Specially compared to on a regular aluminium plate. Does the plate drown the tactility bump?
What kind of plate would you say feels good/similar to FR4? I'm planning to build an ergonomic with blues. Have you tried anything better that you prefer more than FR4?
Post by: nickaster1 on Mon, 09 December 2019, 23:31:51
Imo any non-metal material plate would do the trick. I went with FR4 since that was the option available at the time.Not a bit. They make the bottom out very pleasant since the browns have such a violent tactile event. I like soft plates for all kinds of switches since I used to have SKCM Blues on sus and it was painful to typeShow Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/e2e56dceba9ea707ac5c7c92f75cce83.jpg)
Heya folks, wanna share my little project that came to fruition recently. Featuring the King of Tactiles, Alps SKCM Browns on a FR4 plate. The enclosure is a custom cut, bonded (which failed horrendously at QC but somehow the guy let it slipped), and painted (which also failed, but hey it looks good on pics) acrylic Orion V3. Also leds because Ducks.
How are the browns on an FR4 plate? Specially compared to on a regular aluminium plate. Does the plate drown the tactility bump?
What kind of plate would you say feels good/similar to FR4? I'm planning to build an ergonomic with blues. Have you tried anything better that you prefer more than FR4?
On a another note, I would highly recommend a non-metal case to go with any sort of Alps. Just better sound quality.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 10 December 2019, 21:24:48
treeleaf64
Post by: TheInverseKey on Tue, 17 December 2019, 14:51:30
Yeah, plastic really brings out the sound more. Just look at the DC2014. Better than every other Alps board because it's made out of... you guessed it! Plastic!
treeleaf64
While I agree with the sound of plastic really brings the sound for Alps by far the best chassis is the EPSON Q103A. Super hollow and all plastic like it should be. Has the right amount of hollowness that you can hear the deepness of the switches in the chassis and it for sure beats out the DC2014 if you are able to get your hands on one.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Thu, 19 December 2019, 12:48:41
Post by: pabile on Fri, 07 February 2020, 06:54:49
there's at least four numpads and one seems unused. will try to get at least one home :D
[attachimg=1]
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 10 March 2020, 17:57:24
I have been looking for another one for a long time, and finally it turned up on ebay, here in Tennessee (right in the tornado zone). I bought it, at the time of the tornado, for a great price (<$50 shipped). I was amazed that nobody else snagged it, and I certainly wasn't going to post it in Great Finds.
The unit was a little dirty on the outside but pristine and like new inside, Pine whites with doubleshot key caps! I can't get a shot of the PCB markings without removing the switches, which I am not going to do. Note the alternate stabilizer accommodations on the space bar.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 10 March 2020, 19:25:16
Today I received an ALPS Electric keyboard to replace one that I had years ago but foolishly sold to J Carpenter at a time when I needed a few bucks quick.
I have been looking for another one for a long time, and finally it turned up on ebay, here in Tennessee (right in the tornado zone). I bought it, at the time of the tornado, for a great price (<$50 shipped). I was amazed that nobody else snagged it, and I certainly wasn't going to post it in Great Finds.
The unit was a little dirty on the outside but pristine and like new inside, Pine whites with doubleshot key caps! I can't get a shot of the PCB markings without removing the switches, which I am not going to do. Note the alternate stabilizer accommodations on the space bar.
Dear Mr. Fohat,
Congratulations on your find! I myself love pine whites. Looking at my earlier comments, I was a bit naive... strange how things can change in just a few months.
Post by: monteyalps on Thu, 12 March 2020, 15:44:41
(https://i.imgur.com/sgNZTsp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VqStgGX.jpg)
Post by: nevin on Thu, 12 March 2020, 15:46:00
Post by: monteyalps on Thu, 12 March 2020, 15:55:07
@monteyalps - looks great! what caps you planning on using?
I had a typo in my op, fixed it. Caps are a nice doubleshot set from an MCK-101FT that I picked up years ago, by far the best feeling caps I've used.
Unfortunately the layout wasn't the same so I had to pick up a AT-101 to steal the Stepped caps, \, enter, and backspace off of. I'm currently looking for a better set to replace those keys that can rival the MCK-101FT keycaps.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 12 March 2020, 15:57:14
Post by: gnho on Thu, 12 March 2020, 22:16:36
Really enjoy seeing all these boards!!!
I have never tried Alps before and am wondering how I can get one. After some googling, it seems like blue, orange, salmon alps are most recommended, while people don't like the black ones as much.
Is there a board that's not too difficult to get or too expensive? If you're thinking about getting rid of a board that's actually decent for a beginner, please do not hesitate to message me.
Thanks!
Post by: mode on Fri, 13 March 2020, 01:47:18
Hi all-
Really enjoy seeing all these boards!!!
I have never tried Alps before and am wondering how I can get one. After some googling, it seems like blue, orange, salmon alps are most recommended, while people don't like the black ones as much.
Is there a board that's not too difficult to get or too expensive? If you're thinking about getting rid of a board that's actually decent for a beginner, please do not hesitate to message me.
Thanks!
An AEK1 or M0116. They all have salmon or orange alps which are excellent, and they're pretty easy to find and are not hideously expensive. Just make sure you get a clean one.
Post by: gnho on Fri, 13 March 2020, 04:39:13
An AEK1 or M0116. They all have salmon or orange alps which are excellent, and they're pretty easy to find and are not hideously expensive. Just make sure you get a clean one.
Thanks! I saw some M0116s on eBay that go around $100-$150. Got an offer of a 60% rebuilt with with linearized lubed dampened cream for $125 and one with orange but not case for $300. Getting it from eBay seems to make most sense but I'm also worried that I can't remap the keys. Should I jump on any of these or wait it out. Another option I see is Leading Edge DC-2014 for $280... If it's not difficult to resell it maybe that's what I should go for?
Post by: nevin on Fri, 13 March 2020, 07:38:11
Post by: gnho on Fri, 13 March 2020, 16:25:02
@gnho - you can use hasu's adb to usb converter (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14290.0) (or build one yourself) to reprogram the apple adb boards. hasu also has one for other protocols (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72052.0) and soarer's converter (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0) is popular as well. easy way to convert to usb and custom keymap to test and play with a board without having to mess with any of the internals of a board.
Thanks! This is very helpful! Now I finally have a map to explore ALPS world!!!
Post by: nevin on Fri, 13 March 2020, 17:31:49
shy of some strange size/placement of keys on old apple boards, they are by far some of my favorites.
take a look at deskthority's wiki (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series) to identify specific models and what switches should be in them.
Post by: uncleaner on Wed, 18 March 2020, 22:55:30
I've had it on a test key for two weeks and the rest of the board for one without issues, but despite saying it's plastic safe it contains petroleum solvents and cyclohexane, which isn't filling me with confidence.
Post by: nevin on Wed, 18 March 2020, 23:26:49
the one i have does say liquified petroleum gas (but that's probably just the propellant) the main spray is an isopropyl alcohol base which is why it dies so fast.
i'd probably stay away from the common household brands and go for more of the industrial or less common brand. household brands seem to be a little "dummy proof" in my opinion. instead of an industrial brand that is adhering to more strict specs, makeup, MSDS, etc...
you don't have to use a dry lube on alps. it's just most alp switches are very old (even new old stock) and after a couple decades, the lube that the factory may have put in the switches has probably dried out. this seems to be a common misconception.
Post by: 4sStylZ on Thu, 19 March 2020, 03:57:15
(https://www.silmid.com/Images/Product/Default/large/3_In_1_High_Performance_Lube_400ml_Aerosol.jpg)
It was … useless after 2 days. At first it was a little bit better but not crazy, even with 2 applications.
Post by: uncleaner on Sun, 22 March 2020, 07:19:43
you don't have to use a dry lube on alps. it's just most alp switches are very old (even new old stock) and after a couple decades, the lube that the factory may have put in the switches has probably dried out. this seems to be a common misconception.Yeah that's definitely my takeaway since the stuff I sprayed on looks like teflon in a really thick mineral oil or something and it works really well.
Also these worn in alps were almost immaculate (a deep clean barely did anything), and when I compared them to my good salmons the only visible damage was from the tactile leaf tearing up the side of the slider from years of use. So lubing just to prevent wear seems wise.
Anyone have suggestions? Anything's probably wiser than the oil refinery runoff I sprayed all over this thing at least.
Post by: nevin on Sun, 22 March 2020, 07:28:21
- the consensus is not to use something too thick a lube on tactiles
- springs can be lubed as well to help reduce ping
- watch a couple videos as tutorials if needed
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 22 March 2020, 08:01:24
Post by: mode on Sun, 22 March 2020, 08:21:28
Can’t figure out of a good lube for blues either.
Post by: mode on Thu, 26 March 2020, 11:11:32
Anyone got any tips for reconditioning the SKCC tall creams in it? Same kinda treatment as SKCM, open and remove chow?
Will be my first linear board, not sure I'll use it properly, I just punted a lowball offer on it and won!
Post by: nevin on Thu, 26 March 2020, 11:16:42
... and congrats on the M0110A! :thumb:
Post by: mode on Thu, 26 March 2020, 11:17:55
watch Chyrosran22's exceptional (an through) Alps Restoration Guide. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmdu0w_k-0E&list=PL285ATFsHGY9QW3hD8JSNP5BSWbSz25vI)
That's for SKCM though, which I'm very familiar with cleaning up, SKCC are somewhat different.
Do they take the same size spring? I'd like to drop in some 50cN alps springs I have to lighten them up.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 26 March 2020, 11:32:22
...yes, springs are same dimensions. sprit makes aftermarket alps springs in varying weights, or you could pull the springs from a lighter linear like SKCL greens (50~g). switch plates are also almost identical to complicated SKCL/M
also check out lowpoly's M0110 rebuild on deskthority (https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=1067).
Post by: chyros on Thu, 26 March 2020, 12:11:30
I snapped up an apple M0110AIf you can't do it with my procedure, you can still buy these NOS.
Anyone got any tips for reconditioning the SKCC tall creams in it? Same kinda treatment as SKCM, open and remove chow?
Will be my first linear board, not sure I'll use it properly, I just punted a lowball offer on it and won!
Note that the retainer tabs on SKCC are MUCH more fragile than on SKCL/M. Also, you'll need to desolder, as the switches are held to the plate top-side.
Post by: mode on Thu, 26 March 2020, 12:48:46
I snapped up an apple M0110AIf you can't do it with my procedure, you can still buy these NOS.
Anyone got any tips for reconditioning the SKCC tall creams in it? Same kinda treatment as SKCM, open and remove chow?
Will be my first linear board, not sure I'll use it properly, I just punted a lowball offer on it and won!
Note that the retainer tabs on SKCC are MUCH more fragile than on SKCL/M. Also, you'll need to desolder, as the switches are held to the plate top-side.
So, hope it comes in good condition eh? It looked relatively clean.
If not I guess I’ll buy some spare switches for any casualties and take it apart :)
Post by: nevin on Thu, 26 March 2020, 14:26:26
Post by: mode on Sun, 29 March 2020, 05:54:39
I have two AEK2 and an M0116 I've yet to strip back and clean, guess that'll keep me busy for a fair few evenings.
One of my AEK2 has pine SKCM cream and the switches don't feel at all bad, so I'm pondering undamping them and swapping in 45G springs, it'll be interesting to see how close this gets in keyfeel to my SKCM orange/salmon boards.
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 30 March 2020, 03:59:52
Post by: mode on Sun, 12 April 2020, 02:57:48
I'm considering doing this to a full board, the switch plates appear identical, the bottom housings are a tiny bit different, but I don't think it contributes to the feel at all, the two little nibs that the slider strike are wider in creams.
I've previously done a full switch swap from bamboo white to get an ISO AEKII with salmons which was a huge hassle but the resulting board is my best, so I have a perfect board to compare with. I bought a couple of hundred loose salmons so will do the rest of the board and see how a full swap compares to a "top swap".
I dunno if it'd work with bamboo switches, swapping slitless tops with slit tops.
Edit: Tried it with bamboo damped white, works exactly as well, the switch bottoms seem functionally the same, but the little nibs are even bigger still than pine damped creams.
Post by: nevin on Sun, 12 April 2020, 11:23:36
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 12 April 2020, 12:42:24
While fixing up one of my AEK II last night I did a little experiment, I took the switch top, spring, tactile leaf and slider from a loose SKCM salmon switch and swapped it over onto the AEK, replacing those parts in SKCM cream damped switches. I then did a 1/2 test against another AEK with normal salmon switches. They felt identical.
I'm considering doing this to a full board, the switch plates appear identical, the bottom housings are a tiny bit different, but I don't think it contributes to the feel at all, the two little nibs that the slider strike are wider in creams.
I've previously done a full switch swap from bamboo white to get an ISO AEKII with salmons which was a huge hassle but the resulting board is my best, so I have a perfect board to compare with. I bought a couple of hundred loose salmons so will do the rest of the board and see how a full swap compares to a "top swap".
I dunno if it'd work with bamboo switches, swapping slitless tops with slit tops.
Edit: Tried it with bamboo damped white, works exactly as well, the switch bottoms seem functionally the same, but the little nibs are even bigger still than pine damped creams.
This is a good way to use your SKCM/L switches in different boards without have to desolder them. I've done the same with browns & oranges, that way I could use the browns in ALPS64 build & didn't have to mess with the Videowriter they came from. Bamboo & Pine housings will work interchangeably too like you said. The only possible restriction I can think of is if the 2nd gen switches with short switchplates top housings have anything that prevent a tall switchplate from fitting in it. I'll find out soon cause I got a Zenith 163-73 with SKCL yellows in it tomorrow or tues. I'll let you guys know!
Post by: mode on Sun, 12 April 2020, 13:38:12
While fixing up one of my AEK II last night I did a little experiment, I took the switch top, spring, tactile leaf and slider from a loose SKCM salmon switch and swapped it over onto the AEK, replacing those parts in SKCM cream damped switches. I then did a 1/2 test against another AEK with normal salmon switches. They felt identical.
I'm considering doing this to a full board, the switch plates appear identical, the bottom housings are a tiny bit different, but I don't think it contributes to the feel at all, the two little nibs that the slider strike are wider in creams.
I've previously done a full switch swap from bamboo white to get an ISO AEKII with salmons which was a huge hassle but the resulting board is my best, so I have a perfect board to compare with. I bought a couple of hundred loose salmons so will do the rest of the board and see how a full swap compares to a "top swap".
I dunno if it'd work with bamboo switches, swapping slitless tops with slit tops.
Edit: Tried it with bamboo damped white, works exactly as well, the switch bottoms seem functionally the same, but the little nibs are even bigger still than pine damped creams.
This is a good way to use your SKCM/L switches in different boards without have to desolder them. I've done the same with browns & oranges, that way I could use the browns in ALPS64 build & didn't have to mess with the Videowriter they came from. Bamboo & Pine housings will work interchangeably too like you said. The only possible restriction I can think of is if the 2nd gen switches with short switchplates top housings have anything that prevent a tall switchplate from fitting in it. I'll find out soon cause I got a Zenith 163-73 with SKCL yellows in it tomorrow or tues. I'll let you guys know!
I think the only issue would be tall switch plates in short switchplate bottom housings, which you wouldn't do when avoiding soldering anyway. There are little risers on short switchplate bottoms which ensure the switch plate is all the way up the switch, I strongly suspect that swapping all but the plate and bottom will work just fine.
It's really handy when you most care about using the best switches with a normal layout for daily use.
Post by: envyy24 on Sun, 12 April 2020, 13:47:34
Would the switch plate not add anything to the key feel at all? I always thought it would.
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 12 April 2020, 14:03:57
While fixing up one of my AEK II last night I did a little experiment, I took the switch top, spring, tactile leaf and slider from a loose SKCM salmon switch and swapped it over onto the AEK, replacing those parts in SKCM cream damped switches. I then did a 1/2 test against another AEK with normal salmon switches. They felt identical.
I'm considering doing this to a full board, the switch plates appear identical, the bottom housings are a tiny bit different, but I don't think it contributes to the feel at all, the two little nibs that the slider strike are wider in creams.
I've previously done a full switch swap from bamboo white to get an ISO AEKII with salmons which was a huge hassle but the resulting board is my best, so I have a perfect board to compare with. I bought a couple of hundred loose salmons so will do the rest of the board and see how a full swap compares to a "top swap".
I dunno if it'd work with bamboo switches, swapping slitless tops with slit tops.
Edit: Tried it with bamboo damped white, works exactly as well, the switch bottoms seem functionally the same, but the little nibs are even bigger still than pine damped creams.
This is a good way to use your SKCM/L switches in different boards without have to desolder them. I've done the same with browns & oranges, that way I could use the browns in ALPS64 build & didn't have to mess with the Videowriter they came from. Bamboo & Pine housings will work interchangeably too like you said. The only possible restriction I can think of is if the 2nd gen switches with short switchplates top housings have anything that prevent a tall switchplate from fitting in it. I'll find out soon cause I got a Zenith 163-73 with SKCL yellows in it tomorrow or tues. I'll let you guys know!
I think the only issue would be tall switch plates in short switchplate bottom housings, which you wouldn't do when avoiding soldering anyway. There are little risers on short switchplate bottoms which ensure the switch plate is all the way up the switch, I strongly suspect that swapping all but the plate and bottom will work just fine.
It's really handy when you most care about using the best switches with a normal layout for daily use.
Ok, good to hear! I wasn't sure if the top or bottom housing was adjusted when they moved to the short switchplates. With it being the bottom housings I should be just fine doing what I'm planning!
I saw a youtube comment about changing the top housing, the slider, and the leaf from a bamboo black to a better one. But then I read somewhere else that the switch plate also contributes to the key feel so doing so would not be as effective as desoldering + soldering in new switches.
Would the switch plate not add anything to the key feel at all? I always thought it would.
I'm pretty sure the switches plates are the same across all the variants with only the tall & short ones being different from one another. I could be wrong though & certain switchplates were made for certain variants, but IME the tactile & click leaves are most responsible for feel barring SKCL linears.
Post by: The_Boom_Boy on Sun, 12 April 2020, 14:12:03
It's funny, not that I have all this extra time I don't actual feel like doing anything with my boards. Once everything goes back to normal I'm sure I'll regret wasting all this time.
I feel this. I have a number of boards in need of building and they are sitting in boxes... :-[
Post by: mode on Sun, 12 April 2020, 14:22:18
I saw a youtube comment about changing the top housing, the slider, and the leaf from a bamboo black to a better one. But then I read somewhere else that the switch plate also contributes to the key feel so doing so would not be as effective as desoldering + soldering in new switches.
Would the switch plate not add anything to the key feel at all? I always thought it would.
If there is a detectable difference it's so minuscule that I couldn't feel it and I'm convinced nobody else could in a double blind test.
Post by: envyy24 on Sun, 12 April 2020, 15:43:58
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 12 April 2020, 15:50:49
Ah i see. Should have kept my bamboo black then i bought it nos, and then slapped white skcm in it or st. Damn lesson learned i guess, will try to get back into alps game if I can pick up some good one. Thanks guys
Oof, yeah those housings would been nice for swapping into! If it makes you feel any better I did basically the same thing, had near NOS AT101 I let go to a buddy cause it "just had black ALPS in it" before I thought of housing swapping to keep from desoldering. Anyways. NP & keep us updated if you grab any ALPS goodies!
Post by: Rob27shred on Fri, 17 April 2020, 17:04:42
Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/e2e56dceba9ea707ac5c7c92f75cce83.jpg)
Heya folks, wanna share my little project that came to fruition recently. Featuring the King of Tactiles, Alps SKCM Browns on a FR4 plate. The enclosure is a custom cut, bonded (which failed horrendously at QC but somehow the guy let it slipped), and painted (which also failed, but hey it looks good on pics) acrylic Orion V3. Also leds because Ducks.
How are the browns on an FR4 plate? Specially compared to on a regular aluminium plate. Does the plate drown the tactility bump?
IME, in a tray mounted build (without centered standoffs) I didn't notice any difference in feel in browns between an FR4 & alum. plate. However the FR4 plate does make the switches sound a bit more muted than on alum., for me that's a positive, not sure where your preference would lie.
Post by: directheatedtriode on Mon, 27 April 2020, 14:46:51
I have an opportunity to get an SKCM Brown board for a decent price, but some things have me a bit apprehensive. At the very least may be worth buying to part out the switches.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 27 April 2020, 14:55:03
Anyone know how SKCM Blue tactility compares to SKCM Brown? From what I understand SKCM Brown are also heavier? I'm quite satisfied with SKCM Blue as far as weight and tactility goes, I don't think I would want more; ie the BKE Light Topre domes were incredibly fatiguing after even just few hours of use.
I have an opportunity to get an SKCM Brown board for a decent price, but some things have me a bit apprehensive. At the very least may be worth buying to part out the switches.
They are very different, you'll have to try them yourself... they don't feel like any other switch. Fascinating things, they are. Tactility is drawn out over the course of the travel, so there's no "event", it is just in the feel of the switch itself. Hard to explain.
Post by: directheatedtriode on Mon, 27 April 2020, 15:38:21
Anyone know how SKCM Blue tactility compares to SKCM Brown? From what I understand SKCM Brown are also heavier? I'm quite satisfied with SKCM Blue as far as weight and tactility goes, I don't think I would want more; ie the BKE Light Topre domes were incredibly fatiguing after even just few hours of use.
I have an opportunity to get an SKCM Brown board for a decent price, but some things have me a bit apprehensive. At the very least may be worth buying to part out the switches.
They are very different, you'll have to try them yourself... they don't feel like any other switch. Fascinating things, they are. Tactility is drawn out over the course of the travel, so there's no "event", it is just in the feel of the switch itself. Hard to explain.
This sounds like SKCM Orange to me- I've always felt like Oranges are a "heavy linear", I know that isn't quite accurate thing to say, but the bump is so long and drawn out with very little resistance at the very top. Does that sound like Browns (but they'd be heavier)? Not that any of this is meant as a bad thing, I really like Oranges.
You've pretty much convinced me to give it a go :D
Post by: mode on Mon, 27 April 2020, 15:43:52
I've always wanted an ISO Granite, and I fully expect it to take a few years to put the thing back together. Guess I'll also need to find some blue ALPS too, not sure anything else would do as it'd be in part for my wife who was a long time SGI user and she loves clicky switches.
Post by: chyros on Mon, 27 April 2020, 17:05:17
No, browns are not like oranges. Blue are more like oranges than browns are.Anyone know how SKCM Blue tactility compares to SKCM Brown? From what I understand SKCM Brown are also heavier? I'm quite satisfied with SKCM Blue as far as weight and tactility goes, I don't think I would want more; ie the BKE Light Topre domes were incredibly fatiguing after even just few hours of use.
I have an opportunity to get an SKCM Brown board for a decent price, but some things have me a bit apprehensive. At the very least may be worth buying to part out the switches.
They are very different, you'll have to try them yourself... they don't feel like any other switch. Fascinating things, they are. Tactility is drawn out over the course of the travel, so there's no "event", it is just in the feel of the switch itself. Hard to explain.
This sounds like SKCM Orange to me- I've always felt like Oranges are a "heavy linear", I know that isn't quite accurate thing to say, but the bump is so long and drawn out with very little resistance at the very top. Does that sound like Browns (but they'd be heavier)? Not that any of this is meant as a bad thing, I really like Oranges.
You've pretty much convinced me to give it a go :D
Browns are really quite tactile, but in a rounded way, like Topre, not in a sharpish way that SKCM orange and blue are (look up the force curves if you're curious). They are also really quite stiff because the peak force is held for so long.
If you don't want something stiffer than SKCM blue, I wouldn't recommend brown.
Post by: mode on Tue, 28 April 2020, 03:25:52
No, browns are not like oranges. Blue are more like oranges than browns are.Anyone know how SKCM Blue tactility compares to SKCM Brown? From what I understand SKCM Brown are also heavier? I'm quite satisfied with SKCM Blue as far as weight and tactility goes, I don't think I would want more; ie the BKE Light Topre domes were incredibly fatiguing after even just few hours of use.
I have an opportunity to get an SKCM Brown board for a decent price, but some things have me a bit apprehensive. At the very least may be worth buying to part out the switches.
They are very different, you'll have to try them yourself... they don't feel like any other switch. Fascinating things, they are. Tactility is drawn out over the course of the travel, so there's no "event", it is just in the feel of the switch itself. Hard to explain.
This sounds like SKCM Orange to me- I've always felt like Oranges are a "heavy linear", I know that isn't quite accurate thing to say, but the bump is so long and drawn out with very little resistance at the very top. Does that sound like Browns (but they'd be heavier)? Not that any of this is meant as a bad thing, I really like Oranges.
You've pretty much convinced me to give it a go :D
Browns are really quite tactile, but in a rounded way, like Topre, not in a sharpish way that SKCM orange and blue are (look up the force curves if you're curious). They are also really quite stiff because the peak force is held for so long.
If you don't want something stiffer than SKCM blue, I wouldn't recommend brown.
You’re right, and I’m glad I got that sgi case, it’s nice having the freedom of it already being butchered as I’d never break up a complete SGI but now I’m tempted to get hold of some amber alps and make the most of that big chassis, make it the ultimate clickfoot.
Post by: d.caminero on Thu, 30 April 2020, 09:00:49
IME, in a tray mounted build (without centered standoffs) I didn't notice any difference in feel in browns between an FR4 & alum. plate. However the FR4 plate does make the switches sound a bit more muted than on alum., for my that's a positive, not sure where your preference would lie.
Hey thanks for your input! In this case it'd be a top mount plate, in a The Ave keyboard (40%) so I guess they'd feel similar as well, but as you do I like it better muted. My main concern was about dampening the bottom out a bit. In my current boards, both SKCM Orange and SKCM Brown are a bit too harsh on the bottom out, specially if you use DSA keycaps on them. Changing to AEK keycaps worked wonders for that and improved the feel a lot.
Seeing that another user bought an SGI case, plate and pcb to make a build:
Does anyone here want an AEK or NEC 8801 chassis, pcb and plate to make another build? I do have one of each lying around that I'm reluctant to throw. Paying only shipping of course, although it would be from Spain.
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Sun, 03 May 2020, 08:37:15
Refer to the photos embedded. It's hard for me to tell if the AAP keycap is compatible with AEK/AEKII switches :/
Photo of the underside of an AAP keycap:
(https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/0/07/Apple_Adjustable_Alps_SKFS.JPG)
Photo of the underside of an AEKII keycap (whose switches were rotated 90° on the Function row, for some odd reason):
(https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/c/c7/AEKII-creamALPS.jpg)
Post by: nevin on Sun, 03 May 2020, 10:37:11
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
i don't think any of the layouts for AEK I or II had 1.75 right shifts for skcl/m alps. i was thinking maybe the m0118 might, but that's only 1.25.
- the IBM 5140 had a 1.75 right shift, though profile will probably be different.
- tai-hao makes OEM profile alps caps, as well as signature plastics
Post by: Applet on Sun, 03 May 2020, 11:13:28
Hello all. Trying to source a 1.75U right shift keycap for use on a 65% AEK projectM0116 and M0118 has a cmd-key that is 1,75 in the correct profile. I use it for my two 60% with AEK-keycaps. There is no shift-key that fits the specs as far as I know
[attach=1]
Post by: nevin on Sun, 03 May 2020, 15:48:10
Post by: mode on Mon, 04 May 2020, 05:29:25
The AT102 plate is kinda rusty, so I'll definitely desolder it, swap in the cleaner SGI plate, and source some nicer SKCM switches, but I'm glad I can instantly make a complete board now with that case.
Post by: mode on Mon, 04 May 2020, 07:30:43
I got mine for £30 and a friend did the same.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Dell-PS-2-AT102W-Mechanical-Keyboard-GYUM90SK-Alps-SKCM-Black/223998398148?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225119%26meid%3Daf75e6d360c944d0a1196f7aea9a1408%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D223998398148%26itm%3D223998398148%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DDell&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Af4654e95-8e02-11ea-86f7-74dbd18019fc%7Cparentrq%3Adfaa01981710adaa6714c48cffb8d030%7Ciid%3A1
Message her and make an offer!
edit: looks like they're gone, she just has a filthy looking at102w left with bamboo black alps, she's edited the listing to show having swapped the photos out.
Post by: mode on Sat, 09 May 2020, 04:12:26
Post by: jannie2020 on Sat, 09 May 2020, 07:45:35
i cant find it anywhere
Post by: romevi on Sat, 09 May 2020, 10:17:35
Where i can buy acer kb 101-a?
i cant find it anywhere
Did you try your local Alps store?
Post by: mode on Sat, 09 May 2020, 10:20:23
Where i can buy acer kb 101-a?
i cant find it anywhere
Did you try your local Alps store?
Helpful dude.
I've found the most successful way to get gold of something is to bookmark a search like so: https://old.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/search/?q=alps&sort=new&restrict_sr=on and just check on regular. That or find a mythical recycling centre in the real world.
Post by: funkmon on Sat, 09 May 2020, 10:39:16
Of course none of that makes a lot of sense, but like, I mean, you get more keyboard for your $50 with an AT101 or Model M than you get for your $50 in other vintage keyboards you're looking for specifically.
What I do sometimes i just search for "keyboard" on ebay, and sort by used and hope to find a gem. It's how I got some pretty cool stuff for like $10, though I will say I never buy random Alps boards because the switches can go to **** quickly.
Post by: mode on Sun, 10 May 2020, 08:07:44
Somehow the black sliders felt super frictional, just touching them with my fingers, but after a clean they're super smooth.
Still tossing up whether to linearise them or not, the tactile leaf tabs are pretty bent on a lot of them.
Post by: envyy24 on Sat, 13 June 2020, 04:28:35
Hey guys just get my hands on some very quality alps board. Thought the switch this time is much much better to me liking, i find it a tiny bit stiff. Im thinking of swapping the springs inside to st lighter. Has anyone tried something similar? I found the supplies for either 60cN or 65cN actuation force spring (made by the controversial spring maker but let just leave that aside for now :p) and I wonder what should I chose :'( I intend to swap my blue which has 70g actuation force i believe.
Post by: mode on Sat, 13 June 2020, 05:36:42
Holy crap this this is burried deep lol.
Hey guys just get my hands on some very quality alps board. Thought the switch this time is much much better to me liking, i find it a tiny bit stiff. Im thinking of swapping the springs inside to st lighter. Has anyone tried something similar? I found the supplies for either 60cN or 65cN actuation force spring (made by the controversial spring maker but let just leave that aside for now :p) and I wonder what should I chose :'( I intend to swap my blue which has 70g actuation force i believe.
A significant amount of stiffness comes from the click leaf, SKCM blue springs are approximately 50cN, if you want to make them lighter consider 40cN or 45cN. I've been spring swapping some ambers with 45cN springs an they land around ~65g, which is pretty nice.
Post by: envyy24 on Sat, 13 June 2020, 06:16:14
A significant amount of stiffness comes from the click leaf, SKCM blue springs are approximately 50cN, if you want to make them lighter consider 40cN or 45cN. I've been spring swapping some ambers with 45cN springs an they land around ~65g, which is pretty nice.
Bois im sooo glad i posted this question before doing st stupid. I would pull my hair out trying to figure out why my alps is significantly stiffer then if not for you. Thanks very much and that is what im going to do. Cheers
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 13 June 2020, 07:48:01
Where i can buy acer kb 101-a?
Put it on an ebay watch list and be patient. An extremely rare and desirable keyboard like that might take years to find.
Post by: bibobim on Tue, 16 June 2020, 16:13:09
https://imgur.com/a/tUuC1Qy
Post by: chyros on Tue, 16 June 2020, 16:46:53
Bought a Zenith board a few weeks back for 40$ thinking about putting these green alps to my upcoming TKL custom but the build quality of this was just stunning so I repainted and ended up using it as my daily drive. What a great board! ;DAwesome :D . Great choice, the Zenith chassis is very stronk :) .
https://imgur.com/a/tUuC1Qy
Post by: bibobim on Tue, 16 June 2020, 18:22:18
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 16 June 2020, 23:48:36
No, not the Omnikey!
A Canon keyboard with Acer switches. I had heard bad things, but that they were highly tactile switches not wholly unlike Alps, so I've been thinking "well what's the downside?" and I Or Best Offered one on eBay thanks to the keen eyes here on Geekhack for $15.
I am typing this with it right now and it's fairly good, but you can tell it feels cheap. I just came from the Model F and before that a Matias. I will say that it feels similar to the Matias in the same way Cherry MX doesn't, but it's not at the Matias level. It feels like, if someone took Matias and then said "okay now give me the same effect for half price." That's what it feels like.
I'll say it's probably a good litmus test for someone trying vintage keyboard switches. If the guy likes an Acer switch board, then I think we can say it's safe for him to try to go for a white Alps or a Matias for when he's willing to spend extra money. Normally I suggest the AT101, which is a $40 board anymore, as it does have that Alps feel (which makes sense considering by whom it's made), but this I think is more of an easy go of it.
What do you guys think about that?
Post by: turtlemine on Thu, 18 June 2020, 18:47:23
That being said, how would you explain the smoothness of a NOS SKCM orange alps, and how would you compare it to the smoothness of more modern switches (jtk, zeal, kailh, zeal, etc.)?
I want to know how much smoother Alps switches in better condition can be, and it would really help if I can contextualize with the switches that I'm more experienced with.
Post by: mode on Fri, 19 June 2020, 00:04:51
I straight up don’t think you should ultrasonic and lube 1st gen alps, I’ve tried it and it never works well. just spot clean as best you can. ultrasonicing the switch tops only can work ok, but stripping all trace of the factory lube makes the sliders worse and I’ve never found any lube brings them back.
light cruft is fine, but as soon as abrasive dirt gets in an alps board it’s ruined.
Post by: uncleaner on Fri, 19 June 2020, 07:01:39
I recently got a fairly dirty M0115 with oranges, and tried ultrasonic cleaning and lubing with dry lube. I haven't seen much of an improvement, and I get that 'grittiness' when I press down really slowly.NOS oranges are zeal v2 levels of smooth.
That being said, how would you explain the smoothness of a NOS SKCM orange alps, and how would you compare it to the smoothness of more modern switches (jtk, zeal, kailh, zeal, etc.)?
I want to know how much smoother Alps switches in better condition can be, and it would really help if I can contextualize with the switches that I'm more experienced with.
If you can't find good oranges though try salmon alps - they're very similar to oranges, just around 10g heavier and a little more tactile. In my experience even rough feeling ones that are starting to bind can feel almost NOS with cleaning and a heavy coat of dry lube. I've never heard of anyone getting good results lubing orange alps.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 19 June 2020, 07:19:14
Post by: mode on Fri, 19 June 2020, 08:03:56
Got a board with 9/10 oranges in yesterday. Pretty confident that with a light clean I can make them 10/10 again. No sonicating or lubing or such rubbish, just open and brush the dust out of the nooks and crannies.
Spoilers, but what did you get?
My most recent fav board has been an Azerty M0118 I swapped qwerty caps onto, it looked like total crap in the listing, but only had a lot of light dust, cleaned up real well :) Remapping the numpad to TKL with a toggle makes it pretty acceptable to daily drive.
Post by: chyros on Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:00:26
Just an M0116 :) .Got a board with 9/10 oranges in yesterday. Pretty confident that with a light clean I can make them 10/10 again. No sonicating or lubing or such rubbish, just open and brush the dust out of the nooks and crannies.
Spoilers, but what did you get?
Post by: mode on Fri, 19 June 2020, 10:11:44
Just an M0116 :) .Got a board with 9/10 oranges in yesterday. Pretty confident that with a light clean I can make them 10/10 again. No sonicating or lubing or such rubbish, just open and brush the dust out of the nooks and crannies.
Spoilers, but what did you get?
not too surprised, my m0116 is my cleanest SKCM orange board. I can just about cope with the wacky layout but I’ve not touched it since getting the M0118!
I’m still curious if ever there was a qwerty M0118, there is one in the wiki but the uk got the m0116, so which country is it from?
(https://i.imgur.com/4PsAnpr.jpg)
yuri came in today, pretty happy with it on this SKCM blue board.
Post by: turtlemine on Fri, 19 June 2020, 14:01:55
I recently got a fairly dirty M0115 with oranges, and tried ultrasonic cleaning and lubing with dry lube. I haven't seen much of an improvement, and I get that 'grittiness' when I press down really slowly.NOS oranges are zeal v2 levels of smooth.
That being said, how would you explain the smoothness of a NOS SKCM orange alps, and how would you compare it to the smoothness of more modern switches (jtk, zeal, kailh, zeal, etc.)?
I want to know how much smoother Alps switches in better condition can be, and it would really help if I can contextualize with the switches that I'm more experienced with.
If you can't find good oranges though try salmon alps - they're very similar to oranges, just around 10g heavier and a little more tactile. In my experience even rough feeling ones that are starting to bind can feel almost NOS with cleaning and a heavy coat of dry lube. I've never heard of anyone getting good results lubing orange alps.
Good condition orange boards are fairly perfectly smooth, zero binding.
I straight up don’t think you should ultrasonic and lube 1st gen alps, I’ve tried it and it never works well. just spot clean as best you can. ultrasonicing the switch tops only can work ok, but stripping all trace of the factory lube makes the sliders worse and I’ve never found any lube brings them back.
light cruft is fine, but as soon as abrasive dirt gets in an alps board it’s ruined.
Thanks for the suggestion. I might try the salmons a go first to see if I like the general feel of alps. I take it that if the oranges feel scratchy before and even after cleaning, it’s a no go?
Got a board with 9/10 oranges in yesterday. Pretty confident that with a light clean I can make them 10/10 again. No sonicating or lubing or such rubbish, just open and brush the dust out of the nooks and crannies.
Woahh where do you get your keyboards from? It seems like you have a time machine and you have the ability to yoink any keyboard in good condition judging from the amazing collection you have.
Post by: mode on Fri, 19 June 2020, 14:51:30
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Fri, 19 June 2020, 19:54:58
Hello all. Trying to source a 1.75U right shift keycap for use on a 65% AEK projectM0116 and M0118 has a cmd-key that is 1,75 in the correct profile. I use it for my two 60% with AEK-keycaps. There is no shift-key that fits the specs as far as I know
no, mounts are not the same. see comparison below. right shift from aekII & apple adjustable
i don't think any of the layouts for AEK I or II had 1.75 right shifts for skcl/m alps. i was thinking maybe the m0118 might, but that's only 1.25.
- the IBM 5140 had a 1.75 right shift, though profile will probably be different.
- tai-hao makes OEM profile alps caps, as well as signature plastics
Apologies for not thanking you both earlier. For some reason, GH didn't send me an email notification on this "Notify" thread. Anyways, I ended up using the Command key from an M0116, and although the profile is not, like, perfect, it's pretty close. Yeah, the legending irks me (since I'm not using it as a command key!), but I can let go of the semantics :)
Post by: mode on Sat, 20 June 2020, 09:34:44
Def worth the effort, I like this board very much, it's the first clicky board that I've really gotten along with.
Post by: gnho on Sat, 20 June 2020, 11:46:11
The two regular sources of Alps PCBs are XD60 from China and Alps 64 from Japan. Is there any source in CONUS? I'm thinking about replacing most of my MX boards with Alps but I'm not sure where I can find the PCB and plate for new builds.
Thanks!
Post by: turtlemine on Sat, 20 June 2020, 18:00:05
Can anyone confirm this?
The two regular sources of Alps PCBs are XD60 from China and Alps 64 from Japan. Is there any source in CONUS? I'm thinking about replacing most of my MX boards with Alps but I'm not sure where I can find the PCB and plate for new builds.
Thanks!
There’s a guy selling bare alp64 pcb on eBay. You would have to buy and solder every component though. https://www.ebay.com/itm/143635832622
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 20 June 2020, 20:22:11
https://cannonkeys.com/collections/pcbs/products/an-c-60-pcb
Post by: gnho on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:45:08
There’s a guy selling bare alp64 pcb on eBay. You would have to buy and solder every component though. https://www.ebay.com/itm/143635832622
I will need a bit more than this but thank you!
Post by: gnho on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:55:54
This PCB ships from conUS
https://cannonkeys.com/collections/pcbs/products/an-c-60-pcb
I DID NOT KNOW IT SUPPORTS ALPS! Thank you so much! Is there a source for a plate as well?
Post by: mode on Sun, 21 June 2020, 01:45:22
I DID NOT KNOW IT SUPPORTS ALPS! Thank you so much! Is there a source for a plate as well?
That depends on the case, it's generally easiest to just get your own plate fabricated though. Most plates I see for sale are too flexible and won't secure all switches in alignment well.
Figure out your layout, choose a case, then get a plate made for it, it's not too expensive.
Post by: gnho on Sun, 21 June 2020, 02:05:15
That depends on the case, it's generally easiest to just get your own plate fabricated though. Most plates I see for sale are too flexible and won't secure all switches in alignment well.
Figure out your layout, choose a case, then get a plate made for it, it's not too expensive.
Thanks! Is there a vendor you use? Where can I find the design? I usually just go for the generic 60% with a tsangan layout but I'm open to any recommendation. I know Hasu sells plates but there's no shipping between US and JP in the foreseeable future...
Post by: mode on Sun, 21 June 2020, 02:20:57
That depends on the case, it's generally easiest to just get your own plate fabricated though. Most plates I see for sale are too flexible and won't secure all switches in alignment well.
Figure out your layout, choose a case, then get a plate made for it, it's not too expensive.
Thanks! Is there a vendor you use? Where can I find the design? I usually just go for the generic 60% with a tsangan layout but I'm open to any recommendation. I know Hasu sells plates but there's no shipping between US and JP in the foreseeable future...
I use laserboost for fabrication and I've adapted existing plate CAD files to fit what I want using http://builder.swillkb.com and http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com I use QCAD to take the outputs from swillkb's plate builder and align them within a footprint of a standard plate for the case/pcb I'm using.
Edit: looks like built in settings will probably do what you want: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84787.0
Post by: mode on Sun, 21 June 2020, 06:50:10
the blue slider is from a shagged board, I soniced them which made them worse in alps housings, the bottom and plate is 1st gen tall, the leaf is an SKCM black leaf and the spring a 45g sprit.
I hated the nexus top housings with the sliders, they had squeeky binding, but feeling this if there ever was a group buy for replacement alps POM top housings I’d be all in. they work great even when the slider is from a completely ruined board.
may well assemble enough of them to evaluate feel properly some time. they’d always be suboptimal for keeping dirt out as the opening is wider than it should be for a cherry stem, but it’s an interesting experience nonetheless.
Post by: nevin on Mon, 22 June 2020, 11:49:12
believe most if not all of keeb.io's stuff is Alps/MX compatible. though they specialize more in split/ergo kits.
some others: XD64 (60%), XD87 (TKL), as well as many others
when looking, check the switch footprint on the pcb, if they look like this they are MX & Alps compatible. a good many PCBs support alps.
(Attachment Link)
photo: Keeb.io - Quefrency (split staggered 60-65%)
another example of alps/mx footprint (https://github.com/ai03-2725/MX_Alps_Hybrid)
Post by: gnho on Mon, 22 June 2020, 11:55:27
Post by: nevin on Mon, 22 June 2020, 12:13:33
refer to swill's plate builder for examples of the cutouts.
http://builder.swillkb.com/
http://builder-docs.swillkb.com/features/#switch-type
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Mon, 22 June 2020, 19:02:53
[attachimg=1]
Post by: funkmon on Tue, 23 June 2020, 01:24:35
Post by: ddrfraser1 on Tue, 23 June 2020, 22:28:49
Uhhhghghhh that's an incredibly looking board man. I have got to have one!
Hopefully after doing some work on it it will feel as good as it looks ;D
Post by: gnho on Fri, 26 June 2020, 18:11:00
PCB- https://cannonkeys.com/products/an-c-60-pcb (for split right shift)
Plate- Raven https://www.primekb.com/collections/keyboards/products/raven-sidewinder-switch-plate?variant=12440482742368
Stabilizers- Matias https://matias.store/products/stabilizer-and-hook-set?variant=21059316547
Do you think this will work?
Thanks!
Post by: Applet on Sat, 27 June 2020, 04:54:03
Post by: bsdice on Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:06:21
So got a totally new in box still in foil Dell AT102DW from 1998 in the mail today, SKCM Black Alps of course, very stiff. I know I could linearize the switches but I won't. Will rework it to SKCM Orange and SKCL Green for modifiers. Chose that particular keyboard because Alps, plastic case for sound, ISO DE layout, Windows keys (I need some extra modifier for Linux i3 desktop). Easy to get started, too, looked into fully custom but most Alps parts especially keycaps are sold out. Would need some months of patience for mechmarket to turn up all required parts and even then I'd probably have to write a bot because I've seen stuff in demand gone within 10 minutes.
Did use a PC-AT Chicony ISO DE back in 1991 with my first computer. Need to look for it in parents' house, might be mechanical even.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 27 June 2020, 10:31:40
SKCM Black Alps of course, very stiff.
You should use them a bit to break them in.
Post by: gnho on Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:19:37
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?
I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.
Post by: mode on Sat, 27 June 2020, 11:55:11
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?
I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.
Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.
I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.
Post by: gnho on Sat, 27 June 2020, 12:00:48
Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.
I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.
I am already using them on blue alps + EPBT 9009. They work surprisingly well without changing the housing. Binding does occur for MT3 caps. Did you change the housing?
In any case, Alps+Nexus sliders is still way superior than MX switches to me... These days the only MX switches I use are the linear ones and box pink.
Post by: gnho on Sat, 27 June 2020, 14:51:32
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Sun, 28 June 2020, 23:57:06
Post by: mode on Mon, 29 June 2020, 00:34:18
Anyone happen to have a dxf file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate like for the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).
at101 wkl or at101w? are you planning on using original alps pbt caps?
I can probably make one pretty quick. just gotta get a footprint for the stab pole hole things.
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Mon, 29 June 2020, 08:16:09
Anyone happen to have a dxf file for a 60% Pok3r-style plate like for the Dell AT101? The open source 60% thread here has one but the bottom of the space bar stabilizer clip area is so thin, LaserBoost couldn’t produce it (it was missing the little bit of metal which helps secure the stabilizer clips).
at101 wkl or at101w? are you planning on using original alps pbt caps?
I can probably make one pretty quick. just gotta get a footprint for the stab pole hole things.
Sorry for any confusion: I need a 60% Pok3r-style Alps plate with SGI Granite layout destined for my Mekanisk Klippe T (https://mekanisk.com/products/klippe), which is basically a standard 60% Pok3r-style case. If you're willing to help (YAASSS!), you could probably just start with the AT101 `.dxf` (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/emdude/Alps-60-Keyboard-Plates/master/AT101.dxf) file from the open source thread (here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82916.0;all)), and just possibly move the space bar stabilizer clip cutouts ~0.2mm north/upward/toward-the-top-of-the-board, in order to prevent breakage of the thin metal there.
Post by: d.caminero on Mon, 29 June 2020, 09:16:12
What keycaps and case are you planning to use?
I have some nexus sliders so there are quite a few options. Case wise, just an artisan 60% wooden case.
Prepare to put in a bunch of work to make those sliders work well, ideally by modifying original alps housings. The nexus housings bind quite badly and change the feeling quite a bit.
I don't regret my nexus build, it's the only way I'd ever get SA Dasher keycaps on a board I'd actually daily drive, but there certainly are compromises to them and they'll never be quite as nice as unmodified alps.
Far easier to just file down a bit the opening on the nexus top housings so the keycap stem don't bind. I've made it for GMK keys and they only require two or three passes, nothing major. Not all MX keys bind, BTW
Post by: mode on Mon, 29 June 2020, 13:52:23
Edit: use the second one, it has fixed line colours.
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:11:19
Shifted up 0.2mm!
Wow! Did you use the AT101 I linked? Crazy cool. Only thing is that it looks like there’s no [stepped] Caps Lock in the file? And I think it’s missing some metal along the right side of the Return key right stabilizer clip, no? (Or does that interfere with the mounting screw hole or something?
Post by: mode on Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:28:15
Shifted up 0.2mm!
Wow! Did you use the AT101 I linked? Crazy cool. Only thing is that it looks like there’s no [stepped] Caps Lock in the file? And I think it’s missing some metal along the right side of the Return key right stabilizer clip, no? (Or does that interfere with the mounting screw hole or something?
I did, just shifted them up 0.2mm.
I have sgi and dell plates I can measure for the stepped capslock, will try and figure that out tomorrow.
Post by: mode on Mon, 29 June 2020, 15:38:43
If they can manufacture the stab clips on the spacebar they can do the ANSI enter. If the file I uploaded doesn't work, then you're going to have to consider flipping the spacebar upside down. Alps stab mounts are not centred like cherry, so if you do it on the plate you'll have no choice but to go with a flipped spacebar.
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Mon, 29 June 2020, 18:04:00
Checked now, and the capslock is already correct, AT101/Granite capslock has a weird offset which results in the tab and capslock footprint being aligned, the bottom row is correct too for a 7u spacebar and 1.5u 1u 1.5u mods either side.
If they can manufacture the stab clips on the spacebar they can do the ANSI enter. If the file I uploaded doesn't work, then you're going to have to consider flipping the spacebar upside down. Alps stab mounts are not centred like cherry, so if you do it on the plate you'll have no choice but to go with a flipped spacebar.
(https://d.pr/i/sPDltO+)
Weird. It looks like it’s missing the stepped caps outline altogether, the mounting holes, as well as the stabilizer post thingy. I don’t have the Granite keycaps in front of me, so I don’t remember what the space bar post situation is there?
Post by: mode on Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:13:34
Post by: mode on Tue, 30 June 2020, 00:50:54
I've made everything consistent with this one, I'll edit the other so nobody grabs that and uses it, though i'm sure laserboost would fabricate it fine.
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Tue, 30 June 2020, 07:22:29
There were inconsequential errors in the original file which are not visible with my CAD tool, if you clicked where you expected lines to be in the autocad viewer you'd see they're there.
I've made everything consistent with this one, I'll edit the other so nobody grabs that and uses it, though i'm sure laserboost would fabricate it fine.
Wow. Dude. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. My MacBook is with Apple right now (warranty repair for butterfly keyboard and random display issue), so I was *this* close to having to try Fusion360 on my wife's computer. You saved the day!
(https://d.pr/i/lu90pn+)
And if it's not terribly obvious by my embedded screenshot of an ancient version of Firefox: I'm currently using a ~12-year-old Mac Pro (MacPro3,1 (https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=MacPro3,1)) on Mac OS X 10.6.8 :-\
Post by: gnho on Wed, 01 July 2020, 18:40:18
I know not many people use discord but there's a new channel being created for ALPS buy-sell-trade. If you use discord, here is the invite:
https://discord.gg/ss5YUD5
Please spread the word!
Post by: Little4Real on Sat, 04 July 2020, 03:35:58
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????
Wait, there's an AN-C v2????
Post by: GlennL42 on Sat, 04 July 2020, 05:41:28
I've tried to modify it myself but as a complete caveman when it comes to coding I failed miserably in trying to comprehend it, here's my file just in case (Cherry on spacebar and Alps on the rest)
Post by: mode on Sat, 04 July 2020, 07:34:23
Hogging on the Alps plate discussion from earlier, anyone knows how to/can help me with modification of dxf file for a mixed stab configuration?
I've tried to modify it myself but as a complete caveman when it comes to coding I failed miserably in trying to comprehend it, here's my file just in case (Cherry on spacebar and Alps on the rest)
Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?
I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.
Post by: GlennL42 on Sat, 04 July 2020, 08:22:34
Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?
I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.
Yeah I only need Alps stab for left shift and enter only, don't know how to remove them so I left it in as is, my apologies
Post by: mode on Sat, 04 July 2020, 11:36:26
Capslock has stab bits, but the left one is all mangled and you don't need a stab on capslock, some alps keycaps do have mounts for stabs, but I've never seen a keyboard ship with a wire. Do you specifically want a stabilised capslock?
I think transplanting the layout you want (I'll re-do the lot tbh) onto the outline and cutouts of the AT101 plate would work best, the AT101 plate looks like it's designed for the same case, but has rounded corners and looks a bit more made to fit that kind of case.
Yeah I only need Alps stab for left shift and enter only, don't know how to remove them so I left it in as is, my apologies
Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?
Post by: GlennL42 on Sat, 04 July 2020, 22:28:35
Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?
I'm using split backspace and split right shift, so no stab needed for them, sorry for not mentioning it earlier.
The layout looks like this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QLhTp5yCJqS-JGzcujW8vN7Ho_nMCCxI/view?usp=sharing)
Post by: joecoolbob on Sat, 04 July 2020, 23:27:09
Surely you need them for backspace and right shift too?
I'm using split backspace and split right shift, so no stab needed for them, sorry for not mentioning it earlier.
The layout looks like this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QLhTp5yCJqS-JGzcujW8vN7Ho_nMCCxI/view?usp=sharing)
you can use keyboard layout editor to create your layout. From that, you can use ai03's plate generator to create your plate file.
Post by: gnho on Sun, 05 July 2020, 00:05:32
Just heard that an-c v2 will no longer support ALPS...... WHY?????
Wait, there's an AN-C v2????
In the future, yeah. Now right now.
Post by: shallot on Thu, 09 July 2020, 11:05:47
Post by: funkmon on Thu, 09 July 2020, 13:35:12
They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.
Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.
Anyone else here use dampened Alps?
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 09 July 2020, 14:11:30
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.
They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.
Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.
Anyone else here use dampened Alps?
You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.
Post by: mode on Thu, 09 July 2020, 15:46:42
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.
They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.
Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.
Anyone else here use dampened Alps?
You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.
Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 09 July 2020, 16:24:31
So, after my period of using my Model F as a spacesaver, I have decided to give a Matias Laptop Pro keyboard a go. They're wireless and small, and of course they use Matias Alps style switches.
They're quite good, I like it a lot. The dampened alps in this one make it as quiet as a quiet rubber dome, but they feel like a very good rubber dome. Well, not quite. They're still fairly tactile, but the second step of tactility, plus the softness when bottoming out feels a lot like squishing a membrane, but like...good. It's hard to explain.
Overall though I'm liking it. I just have to see if I can work with such a small keyboard. It's really nice though. I'm loving it so far.
Anyone else here use dampened Alps?
You could buy some Matias switches and swap the sliders and leaves around however you like too. Since I made some dampened clickies to play with, I did have a bunch of undampened tactiles as a result ... until I decided I have no need for tactiles and modified their leaves into being clicky as well. Their tactiles seem a lot smoother to me without the dampening, for whatever that's worth. I'm still not sure why the linears feel like butter with the same freaking sliders.
Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!
I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.
Post by: mode on Fri, 10 July 2020, 00:35:00
Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!
I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.
I don't mean rough as in terrible, it's just noticable, especially with lower quality SKCM black that if you remove the leave they're suddenly extremely smooth.
Interesting that linears have a leaf opposite the switch mech, didn't know that. I do wonder if the slider plastic is indeed a little different. SKCM sliders certainly do vary a bunch, some are, oily, some feel completely dry and they exhibit different properties when rubbed against housing and/or metal.
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 13 July 2020, 09:30:30
Most roughness with alps switches comes from tactile/click leaves. linears are thus inherently loads smoother!
I haven't had any roughness with Alps clickies that are in good shape, or Matias' clickies. You've had rough Alps clickies that weren't dirty? The Matias linears actually have a .... linear .... leaf, as well, and if I swap a slider from a clicky switch into what is an otherwise stock Matias tactile switch, it smooths out significantly. I do wonder if it is the Matias tactile leaf , specifically, but have no idea how a slider with no dampening should make any difference in that case.
I don't mean rough as in terrible, it's just noticable, especially with lower quality SKCM black that if you remove the leave they're suddenly extremely smooth.
Interesting that linears have a leaf opposite the switch mech, didn't know that. I do wonder if the slider plastic is indeed a little different. SKCM sliders certainly do vary a bunch, some are, oily, some feel completely dry and they exhibit different properties when rubbed against housing and/or metal.
Yeah, their linears feel great too if you ask me. There's something of a subtle tactile bump at the very end of travel that's difficult to describe, it sort of gradually builds until just before it bottoms out. Very smooth too.
I haven't noticed any scratchiness of Alps or Matias clickies that are in good shape, they've always felt like butter to me. Even relatively early SKCM whites feel buttery, the tactile event just isn't quite as nice.
I have only one black Alps board and have only felt a few AT101s at a scrapyard, so I figured those were all just a little dirty. I suppose that gives me a little hope, because I already have way too many old Alps boards to clean. I figured a NeXT keyboard was probably the coolest thing I was ever going to find if I were to only get one black Alps board.
Would you say that brown Alps are similarly scratchy by design? I just got one of those weird old IBM nursing terminal keyboards ... and the plate is attached to the case with plastic rivets, so I imagine that's going to be tought to thoroughly clean without further ruining the case's finish.
Post by: mode on Mon, 13 July 2020, 11:46:35
Yeah, their linears feel great too if you ask me. There's something of a subtle tactile bump at the very end of travel that's difficult to describe, it sort of gradually builds until just before it bottoms out. Very smooth too.
I haven't noticed any scratchiness of Alps or Matias clickies that are in good shape, they've always felt like butter to me. Even relatively early SKCM whites feel buttery, the tactile event just isn't quite as nice.
I have only one black Alps board and have only felt a few AT101s at a scrapyard, so I figured those were all just a little dirty. I suppose that gives me a little hope, because I already have way too many old Alps boards to clean. I figured a NeXT keyboard was probably the coolest thing I was ever going to find if I were to only get one black Alps board.
Would you say that brown Alps are similarly scratchy by design? I just got one of those weird old IBM nursing terminal keyboards ... and the plate is attached to the case with plastic rivets, so I imagine that's going to be tought to thoroughly clean without further ruining the case's finish.
I’ve yet to try brown alps, and I wouldn’t go as far as to say any alps are scratchy by design, just that those metal leaves are the source of it when the switches are in bad condition.
it would’t surprise me if browns were more resistant to it as the tactile leaf is a mirror of a switch plate and they never seem to have issues.
Post by: Maledicted on Mon, 13 July 2020, 12:25:11
Yeah, their linears feel great too if you ask me. There's something of a subtle tactile bump at the very end of travel that's difficult to describe, it sort of gradually builds until just before it bottoms out. Very smooth too.
I haven't noticed any scratchiness of Alps or Matias clickies that are in good shape, they've always felt like butter to me. Even relatively early SKCM whites feel buttery, the tactile event just isn't quite as nice.
I have only one black Alps board and have only felt a few AT101s at a scrapyard, so I figured those were all just a little dirty. I suppose that gives me a little hope, because I already have way too many old Alps boards to clean. I figured a NeXT keyboard was probably the coolest thing I was ever going to find if I were to only get one black Alps board.
Would you say that brown Alps are similarly scratchy by design? I just got one of those weird old IBM nursing terminal keyboards ... and the plate is attached to the case with plastic rivets, so I imagine that's going to be tought to thoroughly clean without further ruining the case's finish.
I’ve yet to try brown alps, and I wouldn’t go as far as to say any alps are scratchy by design, just that those metal leaves are the source of it when the switches are in bad condition.
it would’t surprise me if browns were more resistant to it as the tactile leaf is a mirror of a switch plate and they never seem to have issues.
I have SKCL greens and yellows that are definitely pretty rough. Not as rough as my worst SKCM blues, but not great. I suppose I'll have to tear apart that nursing board afterall, those brown switches don't feel great.
Post by: mode on Wed, 15 July 2020, 02:18:05
I have SKCL greens and yellows that are definitely pretty rough. Not as rough as my worst SKCM blues, but not great. I suppose I'll have to tear apart that nursing board afterall, those brown switches don't feel great.
I'm surprised, though I suspect I've just had incredible luck with alps, only had two boards in truly bad condition, an AT102 and an amazingly ****ty blue alps board I got off ebay for a rather cheap sum, I basically got what I paid for with that. Everything else (I have around a dozen alps boards) has been in fundamentally decent condition and cleaned up smooth.
Have you cleaned them all up? There's no substitute for detailing them one by one IMO. They should clean up nice as long as there isn't abrasive dirt in them and hopefully the slider still has the original lube (if it's gen 1 and had it).
Post by: Maledicted on Wed, 15 July 2020, 10:27:13
I have SKCL greens and yellows that are definitely pretty rough. Not as rough as my worst SKCM blues, but not great. I suppose I'll have to tear apart that nursing board afterall, those brown switches don't feel great.
I'm surprised, though I suspect I've just had incredible luck with alps, only had two boards in truly bad condition, an AT102 and an amazingly ****ty blue alps board I got off ebay for a rather cheap sum, I basically got what I paid for with that. Everything else (I have around a dozen alps boards) has been in fundamentally decent condition and cleaned up smooth.
Have you cleaned them all up? There's no substitute for detailing them one by one IMO. They should clean up nice as long as there isn't abrasive dirt in them and hopefully the slider still has the original lube (if it's gen 1 and had it).
I have not yet. I always have way too many projects. That weird old SKCC terminal board is still in pieces, and so is a Zenith ZKB-2 I had planned on attempting to restore.
Post by: gaunt on Mon, 14 September 2020, 14:23:08
I have the intuition that wood may not be that great sound-wise in a compact case... is it the "roomy-ness" of the case that magnifies/deepens the sound, or the (low) density of the material? Is it best to have a case with slim bezels, or is more case material better?
I'm honestly completely lost as to figuring out which materials sound good based on youtube typing videos, even though I've looked at so many. I'm not sure what causes the huge difference between videos (if it's just varying microphone setups causing the difference), but I've heard good and bad typing sounds from cases of every material... Even when it comes to metal cases, most AEK64 alu cases sound mediocre at best, but then Taeha (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSsBVIDhmsU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSsBVIDhmsU)) has one that sounds fantastic, and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qdZkq_z5a8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qdZkq_z5a8)) one-off alu case sounds pretty good as well...
Post by: nevin on Mon, 14 September 2020, 14:34:43
usually the roomier the case the beter the sound, usually the more solid the case the better the sound. there are fixes for spring/plate "ping"
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Mon, 14 September 2020, 15:26:14
check the godfather of alps Chryosran22 (Thomas), has tons of info/demos of alps
usually the roomier the case the beter the sound, usually the more solid the case the better the sound. there are fixes for spring/plate "ping"
I have the Lunar [AEK] (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96112.0) and the AEK64. Both are heavy, thick integrated-plate keyboards. My take is that with tactile and linear Alps, it's best to go with lighter, more flexible plates (ABS, CF, etc.) and heavier cases, or heavier plates (stainless/brass) with a lighter case (polycarbonate). The latter mimics what Alps used for all Bigfoot-style keyboards like the AEK/AEKII's, SGI Granite/Beige, AT101 etc.
I'm not sure the case size or bezel size have much to do with it.
Unfortunately, the Lunar and AEK64 don't really fit into either of my aforementioned plate/case combinations. Still, when I built my Lunar, I used SKCM oranges, and I like the result a lot. I used some dampening material inside the case, and that helped reduce some reverb nicely. There's still some ping, but that's just how it is with heavy integrated plate keyboards. The AEK64 I purchased came with brown Alps, and it was incredibly harsh, both in terms of feel *and* sound. Clicky Alps actually pair quite well in those thick integrated plate keyboards, as the cases tend to amplify the click leaf actuation. I tried SKCM amber and blues in my AEK64, but ultimately settled on blues. The ambers were fun, but like SKCM browns, I don't think I would want to daily driver them (they're so heavy). Anyways, I still put some dampening foam in my AEK64, just to take some reverb out.
TL;DR:
* For tactile/linear Alps, light plate with heavy case, or heavy plate with light case
* For clicky Alps, same as tactile/linear, but thick integrated plates work well too
Post by: gaunt on Tue, 15 September 2020, 10:42:43
check the godfather of alps Chryosran22 (Thomas), has tons of info/demos of alps
usually the roomier the case the beter the sound, usually the more solid the case the better the sound. there are fixes for spring/plate "ping"
Who do you think got me into Alps? :p - I've watched most of his videos, but somehow missed that one. Thanks, interesting stuff for sure.
I have the Lunar [AEK] (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96112.0) and the AEK64. Both are heavy, thick integrated-plate keyboards. My take is that with tactile and linear Alps, it's best to go with lighter, more flexible plates (ABS, CF, etc.) and heavier cases, or heavier plates (stainless/brass) with a lighter case (polycarbonate). The latter mimics what Alps used for all Bigfoot-style keyboards like the AEK/AEKII's, SGI Granite/Beige, AT101 etc.
I'm not sure the case size or bezel size have much to do with it.
Unfortunately, the Lunar and AEK64 don't really fit into either of my aforementioned plate/case combinations. Still, when I built my Lunar, I used SKCM oranges, and I like the result a lot. I used some dampening material inside the case, and that helped reduce some reverb nicely. There's still some ping, but that's just how it is with heavy integrated plate keyboards. The AEK64 I purchased came with brown Alps, and it was incredibly harsh, both in terms of feel *and* sound. Clicky Alps actually pair quite well in those thick integrated plate keyboards, as the cases tend to amplify the click leaf actuation. I tried SKCM amber and blues in my AEK64, but ultimately settled on blues. The ambers were fun, but like SKCM browns, I don't think I would want to daily driver them (they're so heavy). Anyways, I still put some dampening foam in my AEK64, just to take some reverb out.
TL;DR:
* For tactile/linear Alps, light plate with heavy case, or heavy plate with light case
* For clicky Alps, same as tactile/linear, but thick integrated plates work well too
Thanks man, that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. I guess it shouldn't be that hard to find a 60% metal plate for my ADK64... any thoughts on aluminium vs stainless steel vs brass? I suppose it would be a pretty subtle difference.
Also, regarding that Lunar with oranges... tbh the Lunar is kinda my dream case visually, although I've lost interest somewhat lately due to most typing videos on it not sounding all that good, and the extreme difficulty in getting into a group buy for the upcoming Lunar II. Any chance you have made or can make a typing video/soundbyte from it?
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Tue, 15 September 2020, 12:39:52
Quote
Thanks man, that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. I guess it shouldn't be that hard to find a 60% metal plate for my ADK64... any thoughts on aluminium vs stainless steel vs brass? I suppose it would be a pretty subtle difference.
I prefer polycarbonate to aluminum, but it's sometimes hard to get a laser cutting service to work with that material (at least LaserBoost and LaserGist both don't work with it). But I would certainly take aluminum over a harder material like stainless or brass.
Quote
Also, regarding that Lunar with oranges... tbh the Lunar is kinda my dream case visually, although I've lost interest somewhat lately due to most typing videos on it not sounding all that good, and the extreme difficulty in getting into a group buy for the upcoming Lunar II. Any chance you have made or can make a typing video/soundbyte from it?
I would say mine sounds fairly close to both this video (https://youtu.be/E5qZFucydto?t=12291) and this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs8H5ywicvQ). I copied the Bigfoot/AT101 "Band-Aid material under the spacebar "hook" areas. This made it less echo-y. If I could go back in time, I probably wouldn't get a Lunar again. The integrated plate design just isn't synergistic with Alps. If you listen with headphones in both those videos I linked, you can hear the inherent echo-y-ness. Orange Alps in less thick, non integrated-plate cases don't sound as clacky; they're more "clocky." Not sure if my made-up words make sense. I would certainly look into Lunar II, though. Currently, it's a more traditional tray-mount 60% case, so you could more easily pair that board with whatever Alps you wanted and it would for sure sound better than the Lunar ;)
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 20 September 2020, 13:47:54
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:07:16
My girlfriend and a friend of us both got me a Dell AT101W for my birthday, I unwrapped it yesterday. I must admit that I like the soft feeling even when compared to my two Buckling Spring keyboards. I might or might not use it as a daily driver on one of my laptops... hmm. :thumb:
Does that have SKCM salmons?
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:08:22
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:09:06
The W is the black variant. :)
Ahh. I missed the "W." That's the ISO version, yea?
Post by: no, the other guy on Sun, 20 September 2020, 14:10:27
Anyway, I’ll keep my QWERTZ layout with it.
Post by: mode on Mon, 21 September 2020, 00:49:31
The W is the black variant. :)
Ahh. I missed the "W." That's the ISO version, yea?
W means with windows keys.
AT102 was the ISO version.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 21 September 2020, 07:36:44
The W is the black variant.
W means with windows keys.
AT101 and AT102 do not have Windows keys, and all but the very very earliest ones have black Alps, but there are those with salmon Alps which are rare. Some of the very early ones have PBT key caps, but I don't think that there is a consistent relationship between those and the ones with the salmon switches. You can't really go by "old logo" either, although those were more likely to have the early components.
"1" means ANSI and "2" means ISO.
AT101W and AT102W do have Windows keys, have black Alps, and are also available with black cases, which while not rare, they are uncommon.
Last, there were AT101R and AT102R which had rubber domes.
Post by: hanslau on Fri, 25 September 2020, 07:07:37
Just got a modified blue Alps keyboard, so crisp and smooth. I switched only the numpad and arrow keycaps with TaiHao Dolch keycaps.
Now when using I realize the keys with the new keycaps feel scratchy, unsmooth. I knew alps were not dust tolerant but just from a keycaps switch? However the keys on the Home, Insert and Scroll Lock sections also feel kinda scratchy, but not to the extent of the TaiHao keys.
So is it just some major coincidence, or did I fck up by changing the keycaps?
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 04 November 2020, 08:12:13
Post by: nevin on Wed, 04 November 2020, 11:02:51
you can sift through the materials ponoko has (https://www.ponoko.com/materials).
another vendor that's used is big blue saw, check their materials here (https://www.bigbluesaw.com/home/materials-available-for-machined-prototypes-and-production-parts.html)
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 04 November 2020, 15:06:56
both would probably be pretty flimsy at that thickness.
you can sift through the materials ponoko has (https://www.ponoko.com/materials).
another vendor that's used is big blue saw, check their materials here (https://www.bigbluesaw.com/home/materials-available-for-machined-prototypes-and-production-parts.html)
Totally agree they'd be flimsy. But that's kind of the point :) weaston offered ABS (in that
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 04 November 2020, 15:10:35
Is there someone who would be able/willing to take that step file and somehow create a dxf, but with the AT101 layout and Alps switch cutouts instead of MX?
Post by: nevin on Wed, 04 November 2020, 15:41:43
.... oh, just remembered, there was a comb thing that someone came up with for aligning alps without plate.
... ah, here in this thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552
as long as you have their plate dimensions, mounting positions, you could add your own layout in the plate with a combination of keyboard layout editor and the swill plate builder...
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/
http://builder.swillkb.com/
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 04 November 2020, 15:45:07
as long as you have their plate dimensions, mounting positions, you could add your own layout in the plate with a combination of keyboard layout editor and the swill plate builder...
Yeah, that's the hard part, though. I was hoping someone smarter than me could somehow superimpose, say, the file of a regular 60% AT101 layout on top of the Mekanisk sandwich plate file and then have everything work out. But this may not be possible without some trial and error.
Post by: nevin on Wed, 04 November 2020, 16:04:41
shouldn't be too difficult to match up, alps is only slightly different than mx
search around and see if you can find an online converter for .step to dxf, dwg, ...some other more cross compatible file format
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:18:39
will look at the file conversions then.
shouldn't be too difficult to match up, alps is only slightly different than mx
search around and see if you can find an online converter for .step to dxf, dwg, ...some other more cross compatible file format
Sorry, I don't want to misunderstand you. When you say "will look at the file conversions then," are you saying that you'll look at the file conversions, or did you mean to say "Well, look at the file conversions then?" Not sure if you're offering to help, or just advising me to look into myself.
Post by: chyros on Thu, 05 November 2020, 01:05:12
My girlfriend and a friend of us both got me a Dell AT101W for my birthday, I unwrapped it yesterday. I must admit that I like the soft feeling even when compared to my two Buckling Spring keyboards. I might or might not use it as a daily driver on one of my laptops... hmm. :thumb:If you like linear switches, try linearising a part of it and seeing if you like it. Personally I think linearised black Alps are excellent :D (also great for if you get them in bad condition; linearising takes off most of the scratchiness).
Post by: nevin on Thu, 05 November 2020, 11:50:58
will look at the file conversions then.
shouldn't be too difficult to match up, alps is only slightly different than mx
search around and see if you can find an online converter for .step to dxf, dwg, ...some other more cross compatible file format
Sorry, I don't want to misunderstand you. When you say "will look at the file conversions then," are you saying that you'll look at the file conversions, or did you mean to say "Well, look at the file conversions then?" Not sure if you're offering to help, or just advising me to look into myself.
yes. i'll help. if we can get the step converted, it shouldn't be hard to do.
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Thu, 05 November 2020, 12:48:03
will look at the file conversions then.
shouldn't be too difficult to match up, alps is only slightly different than mx
search around and see if you can find an online converter for .step to dxf, dwg, ...some other more cross compatible file format
Sorry, I don't want to misunderstand you. When you say "will look at the file conversions then," are you saying that you'll look at the file conversions, or did you mean to say "Well, look at the file conversions then?" Not sure if you're offering to help, or just advising me to look into myself.
yes. i'll help. if we can get the step converted, it shouldn't be hard to do.
Seems like there are some paid applications which allow the conversion. I didn't see a way to do it in AutoCAD Viewer at least.
Post by: nevin on Thu, 05 November 2020, 12:58:26
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Thu, 05 November 2020, 12:59:35
yeah, i did some initial digging, nothing straight forward in the little time i was looking.
Sent you a PM. Didn't want to clutter the thread.
Post by: siggie0815 on Mon, 18 January 2021, 14:01:34
[attachimg=1]
I like the M0118 with salmons the best. Both, keyfeel and sound are just amazing.
The AEK with oranges disappointed me a bit with its pingy reverberant sound, but the keyfeel is amazing as well. However, I'll need a bigger desk if I want to use this one on a regular basis.
The AEK II is also very nice although it cannot compete with the others. The switches are also a bit strange as it has somewhat cream-white dampened hybrid switches. The sliders are definitely white while the top housings and the tactile leafs are from creams.
Post by: nevin on Mon, 18 January 2021, 15:14:41
.... the elusive M0118... i'm a little jealous. :thumb:
Post by: siggie0815 on Tue, 19 January 2021, 02:46:22
.... the elusive M0118... i'm a little jealous. :thumb:
There are quite a few of them on eBay (Europe) at the moment...
Post by: m_raggie on Wed, 10 February 2021, 21:22:49
[attachimg=1]
Post by: nevin on Thu, 11 February 2021, 04:33:16
How does it sound?
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Fri, 12 February 2021, 02:06:00
Post by: nevin on Fri, 12 February 2021, 09:13:27
Post by: morbid42 on Tue, 16 February 2021, 06:32:20
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
Post by: 4sStylZ on Wed, 17 February 2021, 03:39:04
I released 3D files for my ACK60% ANSI (AEK… but compact) 3D printed keyboard.
That's a underglow tray mount case, with plates, optionnal wristrest…
You can use them to handwire, with postage or alternative controller or use a PCB. Probably ALPS64.
(https://i.imgur.com/rA2teUk.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/txshYjX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/g09hELH.png)
The plate is my best result so far in term of use. it's 7,9 mm thick, and with 100% infill that's rigid and sound proof unlike metal ones. I will probably make an ISO version soon… but's that's a long process for me.
Here are others renders : https://imgur.com/gallery/1CNpsGz
And others information on a dedicated post in the DIY section : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=111239.0
Post by: nevin on Wed, 17 February 2021, 10:20:08
Post by: monteyalps on Thu, 18 March 2021, 17:01:07
Sony BKE-2010 with omron's. My new 60% build's top row is gonna be saucy :p
(https://imgur.com/9y6NOg2.jpg)
Post by: nevin on Thu, 18 March 2021, 17:04:52
Post by: enomooshiki on Sun, 09 May 2021, 15:29:26
I am kind of blindly jumping into the world of ALPs... all my keeb friends are telling me not to.. but I want to try , at least.
I've recently picked up a AEK-II and a Focus FK-2001.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/839450511308488734/839450617130647582/PXL_20210502_214107716-01.jpeg)
What I generally want is to use Alps switches from AEK-II, and use Focus FK-2001 keycaps/layout to build an aluminum TKL
After doing some searches, I thought SMK-TKL pcb would be best way to go about along with Aliexpress aluminum case. But those aren't available anymore.
Does anyone have any suggestions how I would go about doing this?
Post by: nevin on Mon, 10 May 2021, 07:56:23
even if it doesn't specifically state it in the keyboard kit. you can look at the pcb.
if it has switch footprints like either of the below, it supports alps switches.
[attach=1][attach=2]
the other things to look at is
- support of that specific focus layout (big ass enter, split right shift, etc..)
- stab support, is the focus normal alps (plate mount) stabs? do the focus caps support mx stabilizers (pcb mount)?
you may even find a more common case and get a pcb that fits that case that supports alps. do a little searching, see what you come up with. sure others will be able to make suggestions.
build - (BOM at bottom of post) https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=19491
pcb - https://www.lfkeyboards.com/lfk-tkl/
Delirious's wonderful TX84 build - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552.0
Post by: enomooshiki on Tue, 11 May 2021, 04:47:18
start by searching for a TKL that has alps support.
even if it doesn't specifically state it in the keyboard kit. you can look at the pcb.
if it has switch footprints like either of the below, it supports alps switches.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
the other things to look at is
- support of that specific focus layout (big ass enter, split right shift, etc..)
- stab support, is the focus normal alps (plate mount) stabs? do the focus caps support mx stabilizers (pcb mount)?
you may even find a more common case and get a pcb that fits that case that supports alps. do a little searching, see what you come up with. sure others will be able to make suggestions.
build - (BOM at bottom of post) https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=19491
pcb - https://www.lfkeyboards.com/lfk-tkl/
Delirious's wonderful TX84 build - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552.0
Thank for that tip. I will definitely look around carefully.
Finding support for split right shift seems to be harder. I've tested that big ass enter key can work without the stabilizer from the way I type.
the Focus comes with normal alps stabs, not MX style. so finding a plate for that could be also difficult. I might even have to make one-off design.
Post by: nevin on Tue, 11 May 2021, 07:53:18
some plate resources...
keyboard layout editor & swill's or Ai's plate builder
KLE - not sure this is 100% correct, but it's a start. http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/be99fa9c95c978d4891db7e09c1d9f07
swill - http://builder.swillkb.com/
ai03 - https://kbplate.ai03.com/
use these to make a new plate, then you'd have to match the outside edge of the plate to the plate that comes with the fancy kit/case. (if your layout is not already supported)
some open source 60% plates (may help with stab locations)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82916.0
and check Delirious's post in his TX84: Half plate alps TKL thread about spacebar stab locations (file attached at end of post)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552.msg2729843#msg2729843
did a quick search for focus plates, but didn't come up with anything. though i wouldn't be surprised if there were some floating out there somewhere.
Post by: enomooshiki on Fri, 21 May 2021, 05:17:18
I've contacted them few times about re-stocking of SMK-TKL PCB board.. but never heard back from them.
Post by: mode on Thu, 27 May 2021, 01:38:21
Is LFKeyboards not in business anymore?
I've contacted them few times about re-stocking of SMK-TKL PCB board.. but never heard back from them.
Maybe, maybe not, he's very bad at coms.
You could just get this fabricated from jlcpcb https://github.com/4pplet/classyTKL, the total cost won't be all that bad and you can sell the spare.
Post by: Applet on Fri, 28 May 2021, 15:33:17
Hey,Is LFKeyboards not in business anymore?
I've contacted them few times about re-stocking of SMK-TKL PCB board.. but never heard back from them.
Maybe, maybe not, he's very bad at coms.
You could just get this fabricated from jlcpcb https://github.com/4pplet/classyTKL, the total cost won't be all that bad and you can sell the spare.
Yes, this is one of few (is there others?) open sourced TKL PCB's for SMK switches, but, it's specifically designed for the classyTKL case, I'm not aware of any other case this PCB could fit in. The files for manufacturing is available in releases om the Github-page. Component selections in latest release is made to simplify production and keep the cost down using JLC.
This message was brought to you using a classyTKL with SMK-switches ;D
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Sat, 29 May 2021, 21:11:04
I purchased a GSKT-00 second-hand, and it came with a stainless steel plate with MX cutouts:
(https://d.pr/i/qaa18t+)
I basically need the same plate (non-stepped Caps Lock, split Backspace, and split Right Shift), but with Alps keyswitch cutouts and stabilizer clip cutouts.
I looked into the swill plate builder, but the custom polygon thing messes with me, because, for some odd reason, the x and y coordinate system doesn't mirror the one we learned about in 8th grade pre-algebra (e.g., where a coordinate with positive x and y values would be in the UR quadrant, etc.).
Anyways, I have a layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@_name=Custom%20Layout%20for%20GSTK-00%20(AT101ish%20with%20Split%20Backspace%20and%20Split%20Right%20Shift)&author=Anthony%20Craig&switchMount=alps&switchBrand=alps&switchType=SKCL%2F%2FSKCM&plate:true%3B&@=Esc&=!%0A1&=%2F@%0A2&=%23%0A3&=$%0A4&=%25%0A5&=%5E%0A6&=%2F&%0A7&=*%0A8&=(%0A9&=)%0A0&=%2F_%0A-&=+%0A%2F=&=~%0A%60&=Del%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=Tab&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&=%7B%0A%5B&=%7D%0A%5D&_w:1.5%3B&=%7C%0A%5C%3B&@_w:1.75%3B&=Control&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%2F:%0A%2F%3B&=%22%0A'&_w:2.25%3B&=Enter%3B&@_w:2.25%3B&=Shift&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M&=%3C%0A,&=%3E%0A.&=%3F%0A%2F%2F&_w:1.75%3B&=Shift&_a:7%3B&=%3B&@_a:4&w:1.5%3B&=Ctrl&=Win&_w:1.5%3B&=Alt&_a:7&w:7%3B&=&_a:4&w:1.5%3B&=Alt&=Win&_w:1.5%3B&=Ctrl):
(https://i.imgur.com/Cgcl7qz.png)
Code: [Select]
["Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","~\n`","Del"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"|\n\\"],
[{w:1.75},"Control","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:1.75},"Shift",{a:7},""],
[{a:4,w:1.5},"Ctrl","Win",{w:1.5},"Alt",{a:7,w:7},"",{a:4,w:1.5},"Alt","Win",{w:1.5},"Ctrl"]I can take some measurements, and/or send someone the actual plate if that helps? And I could pay someone for their time!
Post by: nevin on Tue, 01 June 2021, 07:40:38
I'm trying to help a forum friend with a plate and i've been unsuccessful finding this info.
Or if someone has a plate they can scan, that would work too, no calipers needed.
[attach=1]
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Tue, 15 June 2021, 23:13:31
Post by: kizuna on Wed, 16 June 2021, 09:44:50
Hi there,
I released 3D files for my ACK60% ANSI (AEK… but compact) 3D printed keyboard.
That's a underglow tray mount case, with plates, optionnal wristrest…
You can use them to handwire, with postage or alternative controller or use a PCB. Probably ALPS64.
The plate is my best result so far in term of use. it's 7,9 mm thick, and with 100% infill that's rigid and sound proof unlike metal ones. I will probably make an ISO version soon… but's that's a long process for me.
Here are others renders : https://imgur.com/gallery/1CNpsGz
And others information on a dedicated post in the DIY section : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=111239.0
Wow these look very slick! Good job!
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Tue, 22 June 2021, 22:43:15
(https://i.imgur.com/VTz4jP2.jpeg)
Post by: nevin on Tue, 22 June 2021, 23:34:21
[attach=1]
and minus the bottom row & left shift looks like "normal" iso? (this is my guess of key sizes)
[attach=2]
if you can't find a pcb, do a handwire.
Post by: Applet on Wed, 23 June 2021, 03:50:36
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 23 June 2021, 07:48:15
and minus the bottom row & left shift looks like "normal" iso? (this is my guess of key sizes)
if you can't find a pcb, do a handwire.
It looks like it might have a non-standard ISO-enter, backspace and r-shift (less wide)? That would make it tricky. Cool caps indeed :D
Yeah, it's a weird layout. The ISO enter is definitely smaller than normal. There's a guy on Deskthority who did a "DocuSaver (https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21201&start=30)." Made a plate and PCB. Doesn't respond though :/
(https://i.imgur.com/fokwJuw.jpg)
Post by: nevin on Wed, 23 June 2021, 13:08:22
- yes, all the stepped caps look like they are off center.
- possibly a JIS enter/return?
- and he added extra keys on either side of the spacebar
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 23 June 2021, 14:13:27
looking at the post linked above... that was a "dry run". no plate (you can see the green of the pcb as well as the diode pads), and probably not soldered (that's why the key alignment is all wonky).
- yes, all the stepped caps look like they are off center.
- possibly a JIS enter/return?
- and he added extra keys on either side of the spacebar
Yeah. Just a dry run. He was so close though! I don't love the UK78 case (although I like this one better than the Fjell-style one), but at least those cool keycaps could have a home.
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Wed, 30 June 2021, 23:35:27
Looking for the black `\` keycap insert:
(https://i.imgur.com/eoTBCkO.jpg)
And also one bi-axial stabilizer wire with Costar stabilizer clips:
(https://i.imgur.com/Qkj9UHE.jpg)
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Tue, 13 July 2021, 04:00:54
Anyone happen to have some spare Alps [Tai-hao] BAE stabilization pieces?
Looking for the black `\` keycap insert:
<snip>
Not sure about the stab wire, but you can buy this BAE stabilizer here: https://keebmeup.com/index.php?id_product=133&rewrite=smk-style-stabilizer&controller=product (https://keebmeup.com/index.php?id_product=133&rewrite=smk-style-stabilizer&controller=product)
Post by: toniwonkanobi on Tue, 13 July 2021, 09:03:17
Anyone happen to have some spare Alps [Tai-hao] BAE stabilization pieces?
Looking for the black `\` keycap insert:
<snip>
Thanks! Found that after some long searching on the internet.
Not sure about the stab wire, but you can buy this BAE stabilizer here: https://keebmeup.com/index.php?id_product=133&rewrite=smk-style-stabilizer&controller=product (https://keebmeup.com/index.php?id_product=133&rewrite=smk-style-stabilizer&controller=product)
Post by: JucheCatgirlTS on Tue, 13 July 2021, 10:09:24
I had literally just ordered one for myself so I can use my BAE caps, and a stabilizer barrel for my Alps TKL. The spacebar flops around a bit right now but at least it still works across the entire spacebar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Anyone happen to have some spare Alps [Tai-hao] BAE stabilization pieces?
Looking for the black `\` keycap insert:
<snip>
Thanks! Found that after some long searching on the internet.
Not sure about the stab wire, but you can buy this BAE stabilizer here: https://keebmeup.com/index.php?id_product=133&rewrite=smk-style-stabilizer&controller=product (https://keebmeup.com/index.php?id_product=133&rewrite=smk-style-stabilizer&controller=product)
Post by: Jiekebo on Wed, 11 August 2021, 03:24:29
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 11 August 2021, 11:15:07
Got this beauty and restored it to former glory. Working like a charm now! Looks like genuine blue Alps to me, but I might be wrong, new to the area :)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I love that flared pen rail. So many modern boards have dropped this design :'(
Post by: ander on Wed, 16 March 2022, 18:39:06
Got this beauty and restored it to former glory. Working like a charm now! Looks like genuine blue Alps to me, but I might be wrong, new to the area :)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
What a fine older board! I take it there's no brand or model number, or you would've mentioned it... The distinctively thick arrow legends indicates it's a Monterey (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Monterey) board—as seen on later ANSI-layout models like this Monterey K101 (https://deskthority.net/wiki/Monterey_K101):
(https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/thumb/6/61/Top.jpg/1600px-Top.jpg)
But yours is an AT layout, so I haven't a clue what model it may be, or for whom Monterey may have made it (they made many OEM boards).
The deep blue color of its Alps-style switches seems to indicate that they're Alps clones:
(https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/thumb/c/c8/Simplified_Alps_Type_III_disassembled.jpg/499px-Simplified_Alps_Type_III_disassembled.jpg)
...rather than original SKCM Blues, which tended to be paler:
(https://deskthority.net/wiki/images/5/5b/Alps_SKCM_Blue_--_infobox.jpg)
But I'm sure it's still great fun to type on, as even the clones of that period were excellent (IMHO).
As it happens, I'm typing to all of you on my Matias Tactile Pro PC (http://matias.ca/tactilepro/pc/), which has been, sadly, discontinued for a while. (After buying mine second-hand, I spent three days cleaning out the previous owner's tiny beard hairs [LOL], as I hadn't gotten my blower yet.) The combination of crunchy bumps and crisp sounds make it seem more like a "clicky", certainly by today's standards. I'm just sorry Matias decided, for some reason, that only Mac users should have the pleasure... I guess they figured that's where the money was. :rolleyes:
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 16 March 2022, 18:43:02
original SKCM Blues, which tended to be
Post by: Maledicted on Thu, 17 March 2022, 09:47:29
As it happens, I'm typing to all of you on my Matias Tactile Pro PC (http://matias.ca/tactilepro/pc/), which has been, sadly, discontinued for a while. (After buying mine second-hand, I spent three days cleaning out the previous owner's tiny beard hairs [LOL], as I hadn't gotten my blower yet.) The combination of crunchy bumps and crisp sounds make it seem more like a "clicky", certainly by today's standards. I'm just sorry Matias decided, for some reason, that only Mac users should have the pleasure... I guess they figured that's where the money was. :rolleyes:
That's because they are clicky switches. Matias' naming conventions are all kinds of screwed up. The "tactile pro" boards have clicky switches, the "quiet click" boards have dampened tactiles. It makes no sense at all.
It is great that you scored a PC version of the tactile pro. I don't think I have any besides the Secure Pro. The nice thing is that I discovered that (at least with with every controller I have seen yet) you can change the layout by removing or soldering some resistors to the correct pads on the controller (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107070.0). You can also get a "quiet click" board and swap the click leaves and sliders from some loose clicky switches into the factory housings.
I have converted many a Mac tactile pro to the PC configuration.
Post by: gaunt on Sat, 15 October 2022, 10:03:09
The disadvantage of the case seems to be that while it is plastic and somewhat roomy (compared to e.g. using a Filco case or something), the plastic is apparently quite thin, even compared to the apparently not well built Cherry case that inspired it (Chyrosran completely roasted the G80-3000 for its build quality, and this is likely worse), and certainly thinner than most of the vintage Alps boards like Apples, Zeniths, and Acer KB-101. But I'm not sure how much this matters for sound... thick wood in keyboards seems to mute sound quite a bit, so in theory thin plastic shouldn't necessarily result in bad sound, right?
Also interested in any other thoughts regarding what could be a good TKL or similar keyboard build for Alps... if the NCR-80 isn't suitable it seems to me like the group buy community's focus on compact aluminum customs means that the only viable options for making a great Alps board without living with full-size/2-KRO/old layout is to either saw off the numpad of a vintage board and stitch it back together again (which obviously would be a great shame... though a vintage board in bad condition could be restored even though the switches were too far gone), or come up with some sort of thin and/or soft wooden keyboard design and commission a woodworker to make it for you.
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sun, 16 October 2022, 09:42:41
I just found out about the NCR-80= keyboard kit
Wish I could help you more on the ALPS aspect, but I don't know how/if they interface with the NCR-80.
But I have an NCR-80. It's a great vintage retro-styled case at the entry-level budget.
Yes, it uses cheap plastic for the case. It's very much an OG Cherry board in terms of build quality. I have a plateless NCR-80 WKL with Ergo Clears. It feels and sounds like typing on wet cardboard, or especially egg cartons.
It is a very roomy, mostly-empty case.
The thing is - they are great for clicky builds. There are videos of NCR-80 with Zeal Clickiez, which is the most ALPS-like clicky available to MX. Apparently, NCR-80 is one of the best boards for these. You can make it really resonant and thocky.
I would recommend NCR-80 if it can handle ALPS. Sure, it's not the best board if you run it over with your office chair. But if you don't actively damage it, it will be fine. Mine is standing strong after a year or so, and I move it all over the place. They are more mobile than most boards.
If you are worried about the 'wet cardboard' typing, it may not be an issue with clickies. But also, you can purchase NCR-80 with dampening foam + CF plate. The CF plate is actually pretty good. With foam and plate and silent switches, you can make a relatively quiet NCR-80. Here's one I organized for a relative:
https://www.keebtalk.com/t/ncr-80-plastic-kit/15024/118?u=hungermechanic
R3 is now available, it comes as TKL instead of WKL. Beige-only, maybe? Anyway, NCR-80 is pretty good at replicating the vintage aesthetic and feel, but yeah, it's not a Filco Majestouch so don't use it as a baseball bat.
Post by: nevin on Mon, 17 October 2022, 07:16:34
TX84: Half plate alps TKL
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552
Post by: mohawk1367 on Mon, 17 October 2022, 07:31:37
Post by: gaunt on Mon, 17 October 2022, 12:03:39
I just found out about the NCR-80= keyboard kit
Wish I could help you more on the ALPS aspect, but I don't know how/if they interface with the NCR-80.
But I have an NCR-80. It's a great vintage retro-styled case at the entry-level budget...
Thanks for the input on the case acoustics, but alas, it seems the case isn't even compatible with other MX PCBs so it seems Alps is definitely a no go. It seems a couple of users over on Deskthority have used the case for an Alps build, but the only details they mentioned was using a custom PCB and plate which is definitely far beyond my abilities.
@gaunt, i don't have case suggestions for you, but definitely check out Delirious's wonderful alps TKL build. very thorough + some great alps specific ideas.
TX84: Half plate alps TKL
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99552
Unfortunately any compact aluminum case has too much of a detrimental impact on sound and takes away too much of what makes Alps great.
I've actually considered whether getting a Filco Majestouch and replacing the PCB and switches would be an option, but seemingly there aren't even any aftermarket Alps-compatible PCBs that fit in a Filco/Tex case, as surprising as that is. I think that leaves the KBP V80 as the only widely available plastic case you could easily put some SKCM Alps into... but that case is pretty much the most flimsy case I can think of :(
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 25 August 2023, 17:21:41
I am in a place where I need some money, and I have a near-immaculate LE DC-2014 that I considered selling - in expectation of getting several hundred dollars for it. The exterior has typical yellowing but the switches are basically new (no shine on any of the the key caps and essentially to no dust inside).
What has happened to the low supply and high demand?
Post by: juliday on Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:14:01
I've got mine recently :)
from NEC PC-8201
alps skfl series.
[attach=2]
Post by: Rhienfo on Fri, 25 August 2023, 22:24:41
Has the market for blue Alps collapsed? Recent ebay prices seem to be way down.
I am in a place where I need some money, and I have a near-immaculate LE DC-2014 that I considered selling - in expectation of getting several hundred dollars for it. The exterior has typical yellowing but the switches are basically new (no shine on any of the the key caps and essentially to no dust inside).
What has happened to the low supply and high demand?
Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or so, cause the hobby for a lot of people was kinda a fad which made the prices fall a lot. More noticeable in the custom keyboard scene than vintage but still has had an affect on it. Plus unless were talking about really rare things beamsprings/alps neon green people aren't willing to pay the high markups at the hobby peak pandemic (and even then the prices are going down on both those things).
On top of that the people who stayed will be more likely to know actually good prices for stuff and would skip on bad deals. Considering it's nearly perfect switches you might be able to get above retail a bit, since there might be a die hard alps who may pay a bit of a premium for the good switches but that's about it.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 26 August 2023, 08:11:04
Considering it's nearly perfect switches you might be able to get above retail a bit
Yes, I think I am seeing that. I am just going to keep it and either use the switches or wait for prices to go back up.
Post by: chyros on Tue, 29 August 2023, 01:31:56
Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or soHahaha that's when my last SKCM blue review was xDDD .
Post by: mohawk1367 on Mon, 18 September 2023, 08:04:22
Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or soHahaha that's when my last SKCM blue review was xDDD .
Your videos are what drove me to try Alps LOL.
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 08 October 2023, 06:11:30
Isn't much demand for keyboards after the hobby exploded around 2020 or soHahaha that's when my last SKCM blue review was xDDD .
Your videos are what drove me to try Alps LOL.
Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Post by: Rhienfo on Sun, 08 October 2023, 17:02:49
Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...
Nice, brown alps are probably my favourite tactile/clicky alps. I remember trying a lot of alps at a meetup and they were kinda underwhelming. Especially Blues, weren't as clicky as I thought they would be. Brown alps were pretty nice but maybe it was because we were standing and I wasn't typing but they felt kinda light in tactility in comparison to like 55g topre. The linears were pretty smooth and enjoyable though.
Post by: Rob27shred on Mon, 09 October 2023, 09:04:18
Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...
Nice, brown alps are probably my favourite tactile/clicky alps. I remember trying a lot of alps at a meetup and they were kinda underwhelming. Especially Blues, weren't as clicky as I thought they would be. Brown alps were pretty nice but maybe it was because we were standing and I wasn't typing but they felt kinda light in tactility in comparison to like 55g topre. The linears were pretty smooth and enjoyable though.
Thanks, yeah SKCM browns do have a special feel to them. I believe it's because they use a plastic plate & dummy actuation leaf for the tactility. It really depends on condition heavily as to how SKCM/L ALPS feel IME. I've felt great examples & terrible examples of almost all the variants. I would say to give Ambers a try if you found blues not that tactile.
Post by: fops on Mon, 09 October 2023, 10:51:47
Post by: Rob27shred on Mon, 09 October 2023, 12:43:07
another +1 on chyros alps-pilling me. I've been assembling parts for a 60% board and realized that my AEK2 keycaps aren't going to fit on the h60 I ordered. I've decided that I'm going to get a WOB set and am wondering if anyone can compare the DCS WOB set that's fulfilling GB pretty soon and something like Tai-Hao's alps. I've heard there's some issues with them breaking from removal, is this something that I really need to be worried about? Thanks.
Yes the stems are fragile with DCS doubleshot ABS ALPS cap & easy to break when pulling them from a board. Tai Hao is tougher, but also OEM profile, not as nice legends, & you give up a ton of compatibility that DCS ALPS has going with Tai Hao. As long as you are aware of the fragility of the stems on DCS & are careful removing them they're all good IME though.
Post by: mohawk1367 on Wed, 11 October 2023, 07:00:38
Post by: Pretendo on Tue, 17 October 2023, 09:27:44
I fell ass-backwards into it. Saw the thermal writer at a local recycle center, was curious about how it worked, picked it up for $5, and discovered later (to my delight) that it had very good condition SKCL green switches. The fact that it has an integrated dust cover definitely helped keep these smooth.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZPHUlTJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Plo6f3s.jpg)
The keys are nice doubleshots with no yellowing.
The only linears I have to compare these to are MX reds and some vintage calculator magnetic reed switches. Their smoothness kind of falls in between, the reeds are just unbeatable for that, but I find the Alps switches very nice to type on. The tiny hidden tactile bump at the actuation point seems to help me make less mistakes using it and the weighting is just about perfect. Definitely my favorite linears so far, and from what I've read a high bar to beat.
I quite like the machine itself for what it is, so I'm not looking to cannibalize it to make a 60%. At best I may someday do a soft reversible mod which allows for keyboard use; there's plenty of room in the case to stuff a converter.
I did a full review here, but be warned that it largely focuses on the machine itself:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=121614.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=121614.0)
Post by: mohawk1367 on Tue, 17 October 2023, 13:01:43
Got my first Alps board not too long ago, an SKCL Green, built into a Sharp PA-1000H thermal typewriter.
I fell ass-backwards into it. Saw the thermal writer at a local recycle center, was curious about how it worked, picked it up for $5, and discovered later (to my delight) that it had very good condition SKCL green switches. The fact that it has an integrated dust cover definitely helped keep these smooth.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZPHUlTJ.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Plo6f3s.jpg)
The keys are nice doubleshots with no yellowing.
The only linears I have to compare these to are MX reds and some vintage calculator magnetic reed switches. Their smoothness kind of falls in between, the reeds are just unbeatable for that, but I find the Alps switches very nice to type on. The tiny hidden tactile bump at the actuation point seems to help me make less mistakes using it and the weighting is just about perfect. Definitely my favorite linears so far, and from what I've read a high bar to beat.
I quite like the machine itself for what it is, so I'm not looking to cannibalize it to make a 60%. At best I may someday do a soft reversible mod which allows for keyboard use; there's plenty of room in the case to stuff a converter.
I did a full review here, but be warned that it largely focuses on the machine itself:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=121614.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=121614.0)
why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry
Post by: Rhienfo on Tue, 17 October 2023, 21:28:16
why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry
Melbourne has some recycling centres which let you buy stuff, even in the more southern suburbs there are quite a bit.
Not much though, especially when it comes to keyboards as there are only cheapo rubber domes. Coolest thing I found so far was a complete ps1 for cheap.
Post by: mohawk1367 on Wed, 18 October 2023, 07:15:52
why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry
Melbourne has some recycling centres which let you buy stuff, even in the more southern suburbs there are quite a bit.
Not much though, especially when it comes to keyboards as there are only cheapo rubber domes. Coolest thing I found so far was a complete ps1 for cheap.
i know for a fact that my recycling center has some decent stuff (rust belt american city, home of xerox) but the only issue is that they also have literal armed guards. ive even called them and they say i wouldnt be able to buy anything because it could have data on it... a KEYBOARD
Post by: Pretendo on Wed, 18 October 2023, 07:57:02
why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry
Okay so this wasn't technically a recycle center. I left out details for brevity. It was more of a locally owned "thrift store" which almost acts as a recycle center. They take in stuff no normal thrift store would and sell it for dirt cheap, with the idea that hobbyists will have some use for it. Things like small used hand tools, boxes of assorted power transformers, computer wires, typewriters, old video cameras, etc. The owner is sort of an electronics hobbyist so you'll see some oddball stuff come in from time to time.
It's not something run by the city, so technically not "recycling center" but that's very much the intention.
Now, you're in Rochester... I wouldn't make a special trip for this since it's very hit an miss for 4 hours of driving, but if you're ever going downstate using highway 81 and want to pop in, the place I'm talking about here is the Cortland Reuse Center in Cortland NY. They're in the middle of a location change so I'd steer clear until mid November at least, and it's fairly uncommon that I actually find something valuable there (though they've been great for things like light fixtures and other small projects around the house), I just live close enough where I can pop in fairly often. If you do manage to make it down here, keep your expectations low.
FWIW New York does have some recycle centers that let you buy stuff. I went to college in New Paltz downstate, and they had one. Ithaca might also be a good bet, but I haven't checked that out personally.
Post by: mohawk1367 on Wed, 18 October 2023, 08:29:29
why does everyone else have recycling centers that let u buy stuff but my city doesnt im gonna cry
Okay so this wasn't technically a recycle center. I left out details for brevity. It was more of a locally owned "thrift store" which almost acts as a recycle center. They take in stuff no normal thrift store would and sell it for dirt cheap, with the idea that hobbyists will have some use for it. Things like small used hand tools, boxes of assorted power transformers, computer wires, typewriters, old video cameras, etc. The owner is sort of an electronics hobbyist so you'll see some oddball stuff come in from time to time.
It's not something run by the city, so technically not "recycling center" but that's very much the intention.
Now, you're in Rochester... I wouldn't make a special trip for this since it's very hit an miss for 4 hours of driving, but if you're ever going downstate using highway 81 and want to pop in, the place I'm talking about here is the Cortland Reuse Center in Cortland NY. They're in the middle of a location change so I'd steer clear until mid November at least, and it's fairly uncommon that I actually find something valuable there (though they've been great for things like light fixtures and other small projects around the house), I just live close enough where I can pop in fairly often. If you do manage to make it down here, keep your expectations low.
FWIW New York does have some recycle centers that let you buy stuff. I went to college in New Paltz downstate, and they had one. Ithaca might also be a good bet, but I haven't checked that out personally.
i was literally JUST downstate in NYC on like Sunday lol
Post by: Pretendo on Wed, 18 October 2023, 09:47:42
Most likely you wouldn't have found anything. The keyboards they have right now are all rubber dome. They do have a few electric/electronic typewriters but nothing with interesting switches. It's very much a shot in the dark when they have interesting stuff. Their Sunday hours are also very limited so you may not have been able to catch them open.
There HAS to be a place in or near Rochester doing something similar. That area has to be crawling with awesome old computer stuff.
Post by: Katherinesparks on Sun, 31 March 2024, 02:33:32
I love blue because they click loudly, and it gives me a feeling that I'm a writer typing on a typewriter.Same here, if Chyros can't sell you on ALPS no one can! Speaking of, my latest ALPS acquisition...
Nice, brown alps are probably my favourite tactile/clicky alps. I remember trying a lot of alps at a meetup and they were kinda underwhelming. Especially Blues, weren't as clicky as I thought they would be. Brown alps were pretty nice but maybe it was because we were standing and I wasn't typing but they felt kinda light in tactility in comparison to like 55g topre. The linears were pretty smooth and enjoyable though.
Post by: TomahawkLabs on Tue, 02 April 2024, 09:22:56
Has anyone done the wax boil method? If so, how does it compare to using a lightweight Deflon Silicone as traditionally has been used in switch lubing?
Has anyone ever done a wax boil on a damped switch? How did it affect the rubber in the slider?