Alps Appreciation Thread

[jacobolus]

I found a new variant of SKCM Cream. The wiki says SKCM Cream switches lack the Alps logo on the top, while SKCM Cream Damped switches all appear to have the Alps logo, so this may be a good visual indicator for differentiating the two switches

You are talking about a different switch than the wiki is talking about. If yours have the logo on top, do they also have a tall white switchplate inside? There are also some orange and blue Alps switches with a logo on top and a tall white switchplate, I believe. The last generation before the switchover to short switchplates and new slider colors. I believe some of the NeXT keyboards still have no-logo switches with tall gray switchplates (but should be otherwise about the same as yours).

To quote myself from a few posts upthread,

Hmm, have you tried them? Ordered the board last night so I haven't gotten my hands on it. Was kinda hoping they would be a bit more unique than that, but whatever. Cool to own the board the internet was created on. Aren't these related to SKCM Blue as well, from the wiki they look to be directly non clicky blues.

Actually I believe that [catalog] picture in the wiki is from a few years earlier (1986–7?), showing the type of SKCM switch found in certain Canon typewriters, which uses a different slider shape and slightly stiffer spring than the “cream” switches in NeXT keyboards; it’s also a slightly different slider color. I could be wrong about that though; we don’t know too much else about that catalog picture.

The ones in early (~1989?) NeXT keyboards are nearly identical stiffness to salmon switches, but with tall switchplate and the same kind of plastics and lubricant as blue/orange/green Alps.

Doing some rough comparisons my SKCM Cream's seem to be heavier than Orange but lighter than Salmon.

That’s about right. They’re very close to salmon switches though. If you handed someone a pair of keyboards with the two switch types to try back to back, they’d have a very difficult time distinguishing the two.

[E3E]

I'm personally not so convinced that the switches in these NeXT keyboards and the example shown in the wiki article are different. Snuci's examples did not have Alps logos on the top housings from what I could tell. In his log on Deskthority, you can clearly see the components of the switch when he shows a disassembled shot. The spring's coils look exactly the same as well and the tactile leaves look identical as well.

I haven't seen much evidence to the contrary as of yet.

[jacobolus]

The earlier Canon typewriter switches discussed in the wiki have different spring weight, different top housing shape, noticeably different slider color. What do you mean by “different”? (I think it’s a mistake to call the sliders “cream”, as they have very little color to them.)

Snuci’s example and Mattr567’s example have almost identical switches, just produced a few months apart, one with logo on the housing and one without. Comparable to the orange or blue Alps switches with/without logos.

[E3E]

I do remember you mentioning those on DT, but I don't recall any pictures detailing those differences. Not trying to deny that though, but it's hard to say which is -the- example in the wiki article on the switches, since it could be a white balance or exposure issue that makes the switches appear that way in photos. Can you take any detailed photos showing the differences between the two top housings and perhaps the springs?

Mattr's here is very pale:

Meanwhile, the wiki's example seems a slight bit more "cream":

[jacobolus]

Actually, the Mousefan pictures looks like the same type of switch as the NeXT switches:
http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/c1414a.htm

Seems to have no logo but a tall white switchplate. So the minor variant immediately prior to Matt’s.

So I guess what I should have said is, “the DT wiki is combining two different switches into one page.” Which is probably fine, but should be clarified. Someone should also add snuci’s or Matt’s NeXT keyboard pics to that page.

I’ll try to remember to take some pictures of the inside of a typewriter switch tomorrow.

[Mattr567]

Adafruit seems to have made a converter for the NeXT protocol from what I remember seeing a while back, so you can probably work off that if their work is openly available. The NeXT is a super cool and different board. It's like a more ambitious 65% with its lack of F row keys but with everything else. It's a very sleek and slim keyboard for the day by the look of it. I'd totally use it if it was just plug and play.

What caps are you going to use on the board? I've got some unshined AT101 caps and I threw them on my Orion v2 and pretty much immediately took them off because I didn't want to shine them, haha.

These FAME caps though, they're completely NOS, but I've pretty much decided that this board will be a very utilitarian build for me because I love using these switches and the board is light to boot. I actually don't like the look of the NCR as much as I do my other Alps boards, but due to the work put into it and the concept of it all, it's still a favorite.

Hasu has TMK software for it so ill do that. With that I have the ability to fully reprogram the board and control the LEDs, for example I could have the right shift one breathe when the computers asleep. Left could be for Caps lock.

I do remember you mentioning those on DT, but I don't recall any pictures detailing those differences. Not trying to deny that though, but it's hard to say which is -the- example in the wiki article on the switches, since it could be a white balance or exposure issue that makes the switches appear that way in photos. Can you take any detailed photos showing the differences between the two top housings and perhaps the springs?

Mattr's here is very pale:

Show Image

Meanwhile, the wiki's example seems a slight bit more "cream":

Show Image

Here is a accurate picture SKCM Cream next to SKCM Cream Damp. SKCM Cream has a much darker slider than Dampened switches actually. My earlier pics were very blown out.

Actually, the Mousefan pictures looks like the same type of switch as the NeXT switches:
http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/c1414a.htm

Seems to have no logo but a tall white switchplate. So the minor variant immediately prior to Matt’s.

So I guess what I should have said is, “the DT wiki is combining two different switches into one page.” Which is probably fine, but should be clarified. Someone should also add snuci’s or Matt’s NeXT keyboard pics to that page.

I’ll try to remember to take some pictures of the inside of a typewriter switch tomorrow.

So it seems there are 4 versions of SKCM Cream. One is heavier from the Canon. NeXT wise there is A no logo grey plate, B no logo tall white plate or C logo tall white plate. In my case I am C w/ the tall white plate. Comparing tactile leaves SKCM Orange and Cream they look very similar. So in the Alps line up in general SKCM Cream is between Orange and Salmon in terms of weight. Now all this needs to be wikified lol.

Actually for custom Alps builds NeXT's are a very good source for switches and caps if you think about it. The switches a lot of the time are in much better condition and the weighting is perfect for a lot of users. I find SKCM Cream's weighting to be perfect. That's probably why I like them more than Orange and Salmon.

[E3E]

Despite coming in a "box" that looked like this:



The board was unharmed.



Here it is with is Cherry look-alike Alps brother. Alps: The Masquerade.





Cleaned it up a bit, but it is in good condition. Probably should've gone for a $25 model, but hey. I love the look though; very sleek design.

The rubber strip around the board is very odd, though I do like it too. The switches are really interesting. They feel around the same weight as Alps SKCM Blue, if not a wee bit stiffer. They don't feel as stiff as Salmons, in my opinion.  They're pretty nice, actually. I think I'd pick them over Salmon and Orange, though it would be a close call between these and Orange Alps.

Might need to pick up a NeXT with pine blacks so that I can compare those to the rest of the tactile family. In my tests with Neon Green, you could get the same exact feel as pines or bamboos simply by switching their tops; there was no difference otherwise, so the same is probably true of pine black vs bamboo.


NEXT! 

[Mattr567]

Despite coming in a "box" that looked like this:

Show Image

The board was unharmed.

Show Image

Here it is with is Cherry look-alike Alps brother. Alps: The Masquerade.

Show Image

Show Image

Cleaned it up a bit, but it is in good condition. Probably should've gone for a $25 model, but hey. I love the look though; very sleek design.

The rubber strip around the board is very odd, though I do like it too. The switches are really interesting. They feel around the same weight as Alps SKCM Blue, if not a wee bit stiffer. They don't feel as stiff as Salmons, in my opinion.  They're pretty nice, actually. I think I'd pick them over Salmon and Orange, though it would be a close call between these and Orange Alps.

Might need to pick up a NeXT with pine blacks so that I can compare those to the rest of the tactile family. In my tests with Neon Green, you could get the same exact feel as pines or bamboos simply by switching their tops; there was no difference otherwise, so the same is probably true of pine black vs bamboo.

Show Image

NEXT!  :thumb:

I knew you'd like the design lol. Its so sleek. Yours looks to be in a very similar condition to mine. Whats the date on your controller? Also do your SKCM Cream's have logos?

SKCM Cream is the perfect blend of Orange and Salmon imo. So besides SKCM Neon Green this is your favorite tactile switch then? How can you get away from that logo  :eek:

[E3E]

I knew you'd like the design lol. Its so sleek. Yours looks to be in a very similar condition to mine. Whats the date on your controller? Also do your SKCM Cream's have logos?

SKCM Cream is the perfect blend of Orange and Salmon imo. So besides SKCM Neon Green this is your favorite tactile switch then? How can you get away from that logo 

Show Image

I haven't opened it up yet, but I'd suspect the dates are either the same or similar enough because my switches also have Alps logos on their tops. :)

It's definitely sleek, haha. Yeah, SKCM Cream is very much an in-between and reminds me a lot of SKCM Blue, but then so does SKCM Orange. Orange is lighter where Cream might be a touch heavier.

SKCM Brown and SKCM Green are both my favorite tactile switches. If I had to pick any outside those, I'd say probably SKCM Cream and Orange. I have a feeling I'd like pine SKCM Black a lot too.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

So what are you going to do with it now? Convert it or showcase it?

[Mattr567]

Should I build my own NeXT converter or buy one off Hasu? Both would use TMK.

[alienman82]

removed.

[need]

Should I build my own NeXT converter or buy one off Hasu? Both would use TMK.

Buy

[Blaise170]

Buy

[dante]

Buy

[E3E]

So what are you going to do with it now? Convert it or showcase it?

I'm not too sure. I'm not deeply infatuated with it to the point of wanting to use the board as a daily or anything.

Then again, my Xerox boards, being my favorites, use a proprietary protocol and I haven't bothered with that either.  I might put the NeXT on display rotation.

Should I build my own NeXT converter or buy one off Hasu? Both would use TMK.

It depends on whether or not you're up to the task of putting together a converter yourself. If you can build one more cheaply and have confidence in your abilities, then why not give it a shot? If, however, you want the convenience of buying a ready made converter or think that you'll screw up making one yourself, then Hasu's would be the way to go.

[Mattr567]

Got the switches in, they make a great addition to my tester!

SKCM Brown is very interesting. A tad heavier than SKCM Salmon but with a much bugger bump outside of Amber. Very snappy, reminds me of SKCM Cream in that regard but even better. Its a tossup between this and SKCM Cream. Brown is a little too heavy but I love the snappiness. Would love to use both.
SKCL Cream is a nice rarity Heavier than SKCL Yellow but smoother, not SKCL Green smooth however.

Now on my list:
SKCL Grey
SKCL Brown
SKCM Black (tried but need a switch)
SKCM Green

[E3E]

Got the switches in, they make a great addition to my tester!

SKCM Brown is very interesting. A tad heavier than SKCM Salmon but with a much bugger bump outside of Amber. Very snappy, reminds me of SKCM Cream in that regard but even better. Its a tossup between this and SKCM Cream. Brown is a little too heavy but I love the snappiness. Would love to use both.
SKCL Cream is a nice rarity Heavier than SKCL Yellow but smoother, not SKCL Green smooth however.

Now on my list:
SKCL Grey
SKCL Brown
SKCM Black (tried but need a switch)
SKCM Green

I'm weird with how I feel in regards to the more "standard" tactile switches that just have the bump. There's something about that rounded ramp up and drop of the Green and Brown tactile switches that I really enjoy. Pine SKCM Green feels sooo similar to SKCM Brown to me, but Brown is a bit stiffer. Still, I think if you had people sit down with both Xerox boards, the 6085 (with brown) and the Docutech (with pine), I think that they wouldn't even be able to tell the difference. They are that similar, imo.

Cream and Orange (Creamsicle!) are my favorite "standard" tactile switches, but I'm not as intrigued by them nor do I feel them as fun to type on as say, SKCM Blue or linears (or the aforementioned tactiles).

SKCM Amber is definitely THE most tactile clicky switch. Perhaps the most tactile Alps switch in general, but I'm not that sure. Definitely between that one and SKCM Brown, I'd say.

I don't see why SKCL Cream would be any less smooth than SKCL Green though, that's odd. Perhaps it's just not a switch in good condition? I find my Creams and Browns to be just as smooth, but just heavier. I've said it before, but Creams and Browns are pretty much the same weight and both have long switch plates and symmetrical sliders too.

With my thumb RSI issues, I can't type on my NCR with browns and the amber space bar switch without the thumb acting up. Hope it heals someday, ugh.

The Hammer Alps Eagle with greens and the heavy green is like a whole level lighter than the SKCL Brown and Amber NCR, The heavy green is about as heavy as a brown or just a touch lighter.

The amber is heavier than a brown, sooo... Yep, heavy. Fun, but heavy. If my thumb didn't have this issue, I'd be typing on the NCR all day. It's back to SKCL Greens for me atm, trying to stay off the thumb too.

[jacobolus]

Canon typewriter switch on the right, NeXT keyboard switch on the left (the type with no logo and a tall white switchplate, but the ones with logos and the ones with gray switchplate plastic are otherwise pretty much identical). I added an extra bright pic of the inside of the top housing at the bottom so you can see how the typewriter switch has a completely symmetrical top housing, unlike later SKCM switches. Notice the different shaped tactile leaves, and different springs.

The two slider colors look slightly different from each-other in person, though they’re not too different.

Personally I’d recommend renaming the Deskthority wiki page for both of these switches to “Alps SKCM Ivory”.

I believe the top housings for the typewriter switches here and SKCM brown switches are the same, though it’s been a while since I took apart a brown switch, so I could be misremembering.

[E3E]

I believe the top housings for the typewriter switches here and SKCM brown switches are the same, though it’s been a while since I took apart a brown switch, so I could be misremembering.

Great to finally see a picture of the differences between these two! 

I was going to mention the same thing about SKCM Brown tops also being symmetrical. It's very likely that they are the same, in my opinion.

What was your take on the older Ivory switch from the typewriter again? I forget how you've described it.
Also, how many of those switches were part of that typewriter? I ask because I know it has several odd switches in it, but it seems like the majority of the board used something that wasn't Alps SKCM/SKCL if I remember the pictures correctly.

Have you ever gotten yourself an Alps SKCL Brown board by the way, Jacbolous? I know you were looking for that switch from what I saw in a WTB thread a while back.

[alienman82]

removed.

[ipreferpie]

Thanks to this thread I'm becoming a true convert. And Matt, thanks for the heads up on the Next board -- can't wait to try them! Not only are SKCM browns making me rethink Zealios being my default, but the SKCL browns are reintroducing me the love of linears. If somehow I can get my hands on a neon green board, it'll complete my journey into the rabbit hole Unfortunately, I won't be able to compare the SKCM ivories against the browns yet since I'm travelling. But all indications that the apparent roundedness of the browns will make me stay.


I'm also planning my build for my upcoming VE.A board. Does anyone have comparisons of SKCM blues vs. Aristotles? Looking to find my favorite clicky

[chyros]

Another exotic Alps switch this week:

[E3E]

Thanks to this thread I'm becoming a true convert. And Matt, thanks for the heads up on the Next board -- can't wait to try them! Not only are SKCM browns making me rethink Zealios being my default, but the SKCL browns are reintroducing me the love of linears. If somehow I can get my hands on a neon green board, it'll complete my journey into the rabbit hole Unfortunately, I won't be able to compare the SKCM ivories against the browns yet since I'm travelling. But all indications that the apparent roundedness of the browns will make me stay.


I'm also planning my build for my upcoming VE.A board. Does anyone have comparisons of SKCM blues vs. Aristotles? Looking to find my favorite clicky

I put vintage Cherry MX Whites in Zealio housings much like Zeal proposed an Aristotle-like clone Zealio switch. They sound is pleasant but varies heavily depending on key cap choice. Personally, I don't think either can hold a candle to SKCM Blue, and I also have to say that there isn't any other Alps clicky switch that really comes close to blues.

Alps SKCM Amber is stiff and very tactile but its click is very lackluster.

Alps SKCM White is somewhat stiff and a bit more tactile than SKCM Blue, but the click is no where near as satisfying.

Neither of these are as smooth.
 
I understand taking apart a Docutech for the Neon Greens if the board is absolutely tattered, but if you find one that's in decent shape and tear it apart, that'd be an injustice.

[alienman82]

removed.

[ipreferpie]

Thanks to this thread I'm becoming a true convert. And Matt, thanks for the heads up on the Next board -- can't wait to try them! Not only are SKCM browns making me rethink Zealios being my default, but the SKCL browns are reintroducing me the love of linears. If somehow I can get my hands on a neon green board, it'll complete my journey into the rabbit hole Unfortunately, I won't be able to compare the SKCM ivories against the browns yet since I'm travelling. But all indications that the apparent roundedness of the browns will make me stay.


I'm also planning my build for my upcoming VE.A board. Does anyone have comparisons of SKCM blues vs. Aristotles? Looking to find my favorite clicky

I put vintage Cherry MX Whites in Zealio housings much like Zeal proposed an Aristotle-like clone Zealio switch. They sound is pleasant but varies heavily depending on key cap choice. Personally, I don't think either can hold a candle to SKCM Blue, and I also have to say that there isn't any other Alps clicky switch that really comes close to blues.

Alps SKCM Amber is stiff and very tactile but its click is very lackluster.

Alps SKCM White is somewhat stiff and a bit more tactile than SKCM Blue, but the click is no where near as satisfying.

Neither of these are as smooth.
 
I understand taking apart a Docutech for the Neon Greens if the board is absolutely tattered, but if you find one that's in decent shape and tear it apart, that'd be an injustice.

Thanks for that Likely, I'll be putting in Aristotles in my ZZ96 (since it has no ALPS support) and go for either SKCM Blues or Browns in my incoming VE.A. I guess, I've narrowed it down to these 2 and it'll be a subjective decision. But to avoid desoldering, I've ordered 2 PCBs. For the plates, do you guys suggest steel, aluminum or polycarb for the SKCMs?


And if I ever get a beautiful Docutech like yours, there will definitely be no harvesting


Here's a photo of the ALPS to MX adapters that I mentioned in r/mk.

Gives you a general sense of the height difference. I'll kill to have a proper injection molded ones though.

[Badwrench]

Quick phone picture of some dampened white alps.  Not sure exactly which model, anyone know?

[fohat.digs]

Dampened whites usually came from late AEK2s with 1995 copyright.

[Mattr567]

Would anyone be interested in my FK-727 w/ Cyan Omron B3G-S?

[chyros]

Would anyone be interested in my FK-727 w/ Cyan Omron B3G-S?

Yes!

[jacobolus]

Model F > MX Blue > Blue Alps > every other clicky switch.

(a) I assume you haven’t tried very many types of clicky switches, and (b) MX blue is a weird preference, regardless.

Anyway, if you have some good condition blue Alps switches, I’m happy to trade you some MX blue switches 1-for-1.

[fohat.digs]

Model F > MX Blue > Blue Alps > every other clicky switch.

(a) I assume you haven’t tried very many types of clicky switches, and (b) MX blue is a weird preference, regardless.

True that. Blue Cherry is about the worst clicky switch I have ever tried, perhaps partly because of the annoying tinny sound. Landing pads help some.

Black NMB Hi-Teks are on the heavy side but have a great solid feel.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

I'm sure you and anyone really would.  Blue alps are worth more.  Maybe I'm the odd man out, but blue alps are some of the most overrated switches I've ever had the misfortune to use.

You're not alone, my man. I think Bocah and Photek would both agree with you.

[Mattr567]

A good switch? Yea, a great one in fact.

Overrated and overpriced? **** yes, the prices I've seen them go for is insane. Hence why i don't own one.

[emdude]

I feel calling SKCM Blue prices "insane" is a bit hyperbolic at this point.  Yes, they are still high, but it's not difficult to get a more common board like the DC-2014 for $100-$130.

[Blaise170]

Yeah I have two Blue Alps boards that I didn't pay too much for, so YMMV.

[alienman82]

removed.

[klennkellon]

Very heavily debating between a Matias Quiet Click or a NovaTouch, battle of the tactiles!

[alienman82]

removed.

[klennkellon]

Very heavily debating between a Matias Quiet Click or a NovaTouch, battle of the tactiles!

hhkb

I've looked at it, HHKB won't do it for me. It has to be TKL

[alienman82]

removed.

[klennkellon]

Very heavily debating between a Matias Quiet Click or a NovaTouch, battle of the tactiles!

hhkb

I've looked at it, HHKB won't do it for me. It has to be TKL

Money is a little tight, which is why I'm looking at the NovaTouch.



hmm, get a hhkb?  I'd gat a 55g Realforce over novatouch

[E3E]

price is relative at this point.  I have paid a lot for many things now, and if it's great , it's worth it.  Just not a fan of blue alps

 

[klennkellon]

I'm going to just go for the Matias Quiet Click. I was just playing with a Matias Click switch and love how smooth and snappy it is and I love the ever so slightly shorter travel of ALPS in general.

Now I just have to choose whether I want the Matias Quiet Mini or the KBParadise V80, first world problem.

[Mattr567]

I feel calling SKCM Blue prices "insane" is a bit hyperbolic at this point.  Yes, they are still high, but it's not difficult to get a more common board like the DC-2014 for $100-$130.

Well earlier at least. I'm talking $200+

I'm going to just go for the Matias Quiet Click. I was just playing with a Matias Click switch and love how smooth and snappy it is and I love the ever so slightly shorter travel of ALPS in general.

Now I just have to choose whether I want the Matias Quiet Mini or the KBParadise V80, first world problem.

Beware that Matias Quiet Click does not click, and the travel will feel shorter and slightly softer since it is dampened.

[Blaise170]

V80 since it has a standard bottom row.

[Mattr567]

V80 since it has a standard bottom row.

+1

[klennkellon]

I'm aware they're not clicky, I'm looking for a tactile switch and thought that the Matias Quiet's would be a good choice because MX Browns are wimpy and Topre is too expensive.


(thanks for the warning though