Alps Appreciation Thread

[klennkellon]

Nothing again. typical.

When go to a thrift shop you must go with a clear mind with no expectations. That is the only time you will find anything of value.

[mike52787]

Nothing again. typical.

When go to a thrift shop you must go with a clear mind with no expectations. That is the only time you will find anything of value.

I never really expect much, most of my items ive gotten at thrift shops came from times I just went on a whim, or times I went looking for something else.

[Mattr567]

 


Have one more spot, wish it to be SKCL Brown.

[mike52787]

looks like fun! what numpad did you use as the base?

[chyros]

Hmmm, that looks familiar .

[E3E]

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Have one more spot, wish it to be SKCL Brown.

Ahh finally, the mythical, comprehensive Alps switch tester you've been putting together. I remember that number pad. Very nice, Mattr.

I'm keeping my SKCL Browns as spares if I ever need a replacement for my NCR, though I could always just use the switch plates from SKCL compact to repair broken switches (and I have), but I don't know.

[Mattr567]

looks like fun! what numpad did you use as the base?

This unbranded Chinese numpad. It had some nasty clones. There are two versions, one is a standard numpad and the other is mine, rows of 1U's. Perfect.

Ahh finally, the mythical, comprehensive Alps switch tester you've been putting together. I remember that number pad. Very nice, Mattr.

I'm keeping my SKCL Browns as spares if I ever need a replacement for my NCR, though I could always just use the switch plates from SKCL compact to repair broken switches (and I have), but I don't know.

Thanks. Been slowly amassing switches from various sources. How many extras do you have? Not going to bager you or anything but it would really top it off. After I get a SKCL Brown im going to send this along with my MX/Gat/Kailh tester for a tour. I'm sure the people would love to see it.

[mike52787]

I just ordered another blue alps board from taobao so I can have enough switches to do what I want. Hopefully this guy will have alot more in the future, he sure does seem to have alot of really beat up boards, I wonder where he gets them. Im done ordering these because I have as many skcm blues as I can ever need. good luck to all of you on getting more!

[Mattr567]

My stuff is in the US

[romevi]

Okay, been following this thread and can't put it off anymore. Might bite the bullet and order SKCM Blue and SKCL Green boards that TB seller has. They look pretty beat up; how much of a risk is everyone taking just for the switches?

[mike52787]

Okay, been following this thread and can't put it off anymore. Might bite the bullet and order SKCM Blue and SKCL Green boards that TB seller has. They look pretty beat up; how much of a risk is everyone taking just for the switches?

if you order the skcl green board he has up right now Ill buy all the keycaps off of you


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[romevi]

On the Green listing there are selections for "Green Big" and "Green Small." When I click either there's no difference other than price.
Anyone able to tell what the main difference is?

[Wingpad]

On the Green listing there are selections for "Green Big" and "Green Small." When I click either there's no difference other than price.
Anyone able to tell what the main difference is?

I would be interested to know as well, I was trying to figure that out earlier. Order both and find out?

[Mattr567]

Wow, China does a good job of packing.

The switches are dirtier than I expected. Even the greens are quite scratchy. Some of them stick down too. Will have to clean both.

[Mattr567]

Cleaning time.

[chyros]

Hmmm, do those greens have black switchplates then? =o

[Mattr567]

Got the plates cleaned but I have to desolder the switches before cleaning since they are so tight in the plate and I need to clean the bottom case pieces as well.

Hmmm, do those greens have black switchplates then? =o

Yep!

[chyros]

Ah cool, I knew they existed in green switches but I didn't have a black switchplate yet .

[emdude]

Woohoo, looks like I'll be able to get my hands on another IBM 5140 keyboard!  Quite excited.

[Moistgun]

Woohoo, looks like I'll be able to get my hands on another IBM 5140 keyboard!  Quite excited.

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Which Alps come in a 5140?

[mike52787]

Woohoo, looks like I'll be able to get my hands on another IBM 5140 keyboard!  Quite excited.

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damnit man why do you have to get all the brown alps


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[emdude]

But you guys are getting all of the blue and green Alps!

Woohoo, looks like I'll be able to get my hands on another IBM 5140 keyboard!  Quite excited.

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Which Alps come in a 5140?

Always brown Alps, this is probably the best way to get them too.

[wsxdr]

What sort of Alps switch exist? (like cherry's blue, red,,,)

Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.

[Blaise170]

What sort of Alps switch exist? (like cherry's blue, red,,,)

Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.

The genuine Alps SKCM switches ceased production back in the 90s, when they sold their production equipment to Forward who then made the simplified switches into the mid 2000s. After Forward ceased production, no new Alps switches are made, only clones such as Matias, Hua Jie, and Xiang Min. As for which switches there are, here is the wiki page with all of the (known/documented) types on there.

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Variants

[mike52787]

What sort of Alps switch exist? (like cherry's blue, red,,,)

Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.

Wow, what perefect timing ! Chyros Just uploaded a video detailing types and colors of alps switches. Give it a watch.

[klennkellon]

What sort of Alps switch exist? (like cherry's blue, red,,,)

Where sold Alps switch keyboards? I can't find neither at ebay and amazon.

They are not manufactured anymore unfortunately. The only new "ALPS" switches made today are Matias switches. They are not as good as the originals but they're still good switches and are readily available. They come in clicky, linear, and tactile. (Matias Click, Matias Quiet Linear, and Matias Quiet Click respectively)

ALPS made a large variety of switches and there is also an ungodly amount of clones. Typically the most common ones are Clicky White ALPS and Tactile Black ALPS and the most valued switches are Clicky SKCM Blue ALPS and Linear SKCL Green. Check out Chyros's videos, they're extremely informative.

[mike52787]

the most valued switches are Clicky SKCM Blue ALPS and Linear SKCL Green.

I personally think skcm brown is more valuable and alot more rare than skcl green

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

So it looks like all the Alps switches are going to be recoverable

I'm about half way through processing everything. I have removed all the caps, cleaned the plates, de-soldered the SKCM Blue's and taken apart the SKCL Greens. The blues were so dirty i'm going to have to clean the bottoms separably etc. The greens were bad but not enough so I cleaned them still soldered in. I ran into a issue though, even after cleaning the greens still felt bad.

So I did some experimenting to find out why the greens were so scratchy after cleaning. I took a extra good switch from my former Zenith and started swapping parts one at a time to find out what was causing it. Turns out the slider isn't the cause, which is great so I don't need to risk losing the lubricant by washing them. The causes were the top housing and the switch plate contact. So I took all the insides out of them and am going to wash all the tops in soap + water, and then thoroughly clean the switch plates. They should be good again 

A similar thing should apply to the Blues too I just need to pay some more attention to other places since they are so dirty. Lol a lot of them were sticking they were so dirty.

Pics!






Also does anyone know why on the SKCM Blues the bottom says "FD" rather than the Alps logo?

[mike52787]

damn I hope my skcm blues arent that dirty. I ended up getting 2 seemingly pretty clean boards though


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[jacobolus]

Those spherical japanese doubleshots look lovely, Mattr567. I think the molds are the same as same-era Canon typewriter caps. Maybe 1985–86ish?

Does this look like the same profile?

[Mattr567]

Those spherical japanese doubleshots look lovely, Mattr567. I think the molds are the same as same-era Canon typewriter caps. Maybe 1985–86ish?

Does this look like the same profile?

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Yea they do, holding some caps up to my screen they look like the same molds. Shame they didn't use them more often. Date on the controller of the Multistation's PCB is week 14 of 1984, or April 2-8th 1984. So i'd say '83-85, since 83 is when SKCL/SKCM was introduced and the multistations switched to normal dyesubs not too long after 1984.

[E3E]

the most valued switches are Clicky SKCM Blue ALPS and Linear SKCL Green.

I personally think skcm brown is more valuable and alot more rare than skcl green

The most popular, I'd say, are SKCM Blue and SKCL Green. They're generally what people are looking for. People are pretty intrigued by SKCM Brown though, too. 

[E3E]

Those spherical japanese doubleshots look lovely, Mattr567. I think the molds are the same as same-era Canon typewriter caps. Maybe 1985–86ish?

Does this look like the same profile?

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Are the spherical tops of the Canon caps sculpted with a significant dip, or are they flatter like SA profile caps? The caps of the Multistation practically hug your fingers, much like Topre Hi Pro caps. I couldn't tell from pictures of the Canon, but it didn't look to have the same kind of spherical sculpt. The bottom row is also convex on the Multistation as opposed to concave.

[emdude]

Also does anyone know why on the SKCM Blues the bottom says "FD" rather than the Alps logo?

That appears to be the branding of Forward Electronics, which is pretty unusual, since I thought this was only seen on the SKBM/SKBL line of switches. 

According to the DT wiki, they produced SKCM Whites for Alps as well so I guess this makes sense.

[Hak Foo]

Those Multistation caps are gorgeous, but I know there's no way to get anything resembling an ANSI layout out of them

[Mattr567]

Also does anyone know why on the SKCM Blues the bottom says "FD" rather than the Alps logo?

That appears to be the branding of Forward Electronics, which is pretty unusual, since I thought this was only seen on the SKBM/SKBL line of switches. 

According to the DT wiki, they produced SKCM Whites for Alps as well so I guess this makes sense.

Huh, thats really weird considering these arent even late SKCM Blues, they don't have any top side Alps branding and they have grey plates rather than late long white ones Maybe they were just some extra shells they had laying around.

Those Multistation caps are gorgeous, but I know there's no way to get anything resembling an ANSI layout out of them

Oh trust me, there will be a 60% coming out of this

[emdude]

Yeah, the DT wiki says that Forward Electronics-made SKCM Whites were likely sourced as overflow capacity or for cost reduction so that may be the case here.

[Mattr567]

Yeah, the DT wiki says that Forward Electronics-made SKCM Whites were likely sourced as overflow capacity or for cost reduction so that may be the case here.

So in your mind there wouldn't a quality difference? They just used random shells since they were over capacity? I don't think Foward would make SKCM Blues (or at least at a lower quality) considering it was still their original switch and quality was of still upmost importance. Looking at the PCB and controller the board was made sometime in 1987..

[emdude]

I'm not sure, but I wouldn't think so if the internals were the same.  Perhaps someone could shed more light on this..

EDIT: A bit more info, starting at this post: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68319.msg1628396#msg1628396

[Blaise170]

I'm quite surprised to see that Forward made SKCM Blues at all. It's pretty widely believed that White Alps took the place of Blue Alps but to see that Forward also made some could imply that:

• Blue Alps were actually in production later than we previously thought.
• Forward was helping Alps produce them when Alps was over capacity, which would be additional to Alps' other factories.
• Forward produced simplified versions of Blue Alps, which would be SKBM Blue.

[emdude]

Wow, the possibility of there being SKBM Blues is really something to think about, but I would be quite surprised if there were such a thing, given the number of years between the SKCM Blue and SKBM/SKCM switch production!

[Mattr567]

I'm quite surprised to see that Forward made SKCM Blues at all. It's pretty widely believed that White Alps took the place of Blue Alps but to see that Forward also made some could imply that:

• Blue Alps were actually in production later than we previously thought.
• Forward was helping Alps produce them when Alps was over capacity, which would be additional to Alps' other factories.
• Forward produced simplified versions of Blue Alps, which would be SKBM Blue.

What is the SKCM Blue timeline exactly? 1987 seems to be well within it.

Just took apart a Alps and FD specimen and they are exactly the same inside. So I wonder if Alps made parts and gave them to Foward and said "build this" since they couldn't make them fast enough. As Matias said in the thread em linked moving tooling between countries is very expensive.

Wow, the possibility of there being SKBM Blues is really something to think about, but I would be quite surprised if there were such a thing, given the number of years between the SKCM Blue and SKBM/SKCM switch production!

Agreed, SKBM Blue is unlikely. Foward was likely a overflow company originally and when Alps got tired of making switches they handed total production over to Foward since they had the means to given previous experience.

[Blaise170]

The thing is, the sample shown is different from genuine Alps made switches. For example, the mould numbering is missing on the FD sample. In any case, SKCM Blue was made from 1985-1988, so if you have some proof that your board is from that time period it seems most likely that Forward made them as overflow production.

[jacobolus]

Are the spherical tops of the Canon caps sculpted with a significant dip, or are they flatter like SA profile caps? The caps of the Multistation practically hug your fingers, much like Topre Hi Pro caps. I couldn't tell from pictures of the Canon, but it didn't look to have the same kind of spherical sculpt. The bottom row is also convex on the Multistation as opposed to concave.

They are almost certainly the same top scoop as the spherical Multistation keycaps; both seem to be substantially more scooped than the Alps “phoneboard” caps, or the various nearly flat spherical-ish and uniform profile keycaps used with SKFL boards. But not as scooped as some other keycaps I’ve seen.

The bottom row on the relevant Canon typewriters only has a spacebar plus 1 or 2 1u keys, which use the home row profile. The 1u keys are concave.

You can see the profile of the Canon typewriter caps pretty well in this picture:


Alps phoneboard pic, for comparison, via https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81879.0

[klennkellon]

After using my Matias Quiet Clicks for awhile, I decided to use my Kailh Reds for a bit..

[chyros]

I have a Kailh red switch, a loose one, but I don't have a board so I don't know too much about them. What's so bad about them?

[klennkellon]

I have a Kailh red switch, a loose one, but I don't have a board so I don't know too much about them. What's so bad about them?

They feel super scratchy , there is a quite audible "sandy" noise if you slowly press the key. This is after 4+ months of heavy daily usage. Like a combination of MX Red and MX Black. Their one saving grace is that their weighting isn't bad, its right between MX Reds and MX Blacks at 50g.

I have heard that some peoples Kailhs are smoother than their MX so it could just be I got a bad batch.

[Blaise170]

Kailh switches are wildly inconsistent but my Keycool with Blue Kailh feels just fine.

[Norman_the_Owl]

I'm new to this thread.

Am i crazy, or am i seeing that you guys have found a constant source of Green and Blue alps?

Also, does anyone know a good source of 5140s? I could use two At least 1 set of caps and some extra brown switches.