Alps Appreciation Thread

[E3E]

Do you guys think this is Alps? http://www.ebay.com/itm/291119068552

Reminds me of the SGI Button Box, and that had LED'd SKCL Gray's.

I saw this one a while back, Mattr. I was wondering the same thing. The front-facing windows would imply a switch with a front-facing LED like Alps SKCL or Cherry MX. With that high price, it's too much of a gamble. The button box had SKCL Grey, but who knows what this might have, even if it was Alps.

So the 7u spacebar does use Costar-style stabilizers?  It sounds like you can use it with a plate that uses Alps-style stab inserts though, which is good..

Yes, luckily it worked for me on the Omnikey 101. However, I have seen all sorts of variations on spacebar sizes and stabilizer schemes in Alps-switch keyboards -- sort of like a box of chocolates.

Yeah, it seems that some stabilizer inserts work alright with the cruciform mount. Does Matias have some kind of hybrid stab that can fit inside the cruciform indention? Traditional Alps stabs would have to be shaven, and Costar obviously does not have the clearance to work. This would've been a good option for my Orion space bar instead of the grueling attempts and eventual success I had in dyeing the ABS black.

I'll have to look into a set sometime.

[Hypersphere]

@E3E: Matias supplies cruciform inserts for the cruciform mounts on each side of their spacebars. They work quite well -- no adaptations needed.

[klennkellon]

I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns?   








I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila! 

It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.

[E3E]

I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns?   

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I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila! 

It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.

Amazing find, Klennkellon, you just found one of the few keyboards that have SKCL Brown! Very much an amazing find, thrift store find or not. Prepare for some people to be PMing you to buy the thing off of you, haha.

How do you like the switches? It looks like the board is in great shape. Yep, more evidence that SKCL Brown is a Korean switch made by Goldstar Alps exclusively.

[klennkellon]

I haven't tried any other linear ALPS to compare them to but they feel great, the only other linear switch I have tried were MX and Kailh reds, neither of which are as smooth as these.

My favorite thing about them so far is the sound, they are by far my favorite sounding switch, even more than my Model M or SKCM White.

[E3E]

I haven't tried any other linear ALPS to compare them to but they feel great, the only other linear switch I have tried were MX and Kailh reds, neither of which are as smooth as these.

My favorite thing about them so far is the sound, they are by far my favorite sounding switch, even more than my Model M or SKCM White.

Awesome. SKCL Brown is, without a doubt, one of my favorite switches. Do you plan to keep it as is? It seems like it's in perfect shape as you've said.

[Mattr567]

Holy **** man

What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?

edit: Should be SKCL Amber!!!!

[klennkellon]

I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?

Holy **** man

What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?

edit: The label says gold star alps

It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.

[chyros]

I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns?   

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I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila! 

It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.

It doesn't have to be from '86, the serial number might just end in that. Still, 1986 is actually a reasonable estimate for SKCL brown :) . Indeed, it was very much a Goldstar thing, so it makes sense this one is too.

Congrats though, it's a fantastic find for sure. It looks quite a bit like the Focus FK-747, except subtly different. And it looks ****ing immaculate :D . And yeah, I bet they sound nice, it's not Alps if it doesn't have a great soundtrack!

[klennkellon]

Build quality feels like a Focus too, it's just OK

[Mattr567]

I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?

Holy **** man

What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?

edit: The label says gold star alps

It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.

Looking at the model number it should be SKCL Amber.  KCLEA907L. I'm nominating this for find of the year lol.

[fohat.digs]

It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.

My preferred method is to seat the key on the switch with the wire dangling, then use a small flat-head screwdriver to gently seat the wire into the slot on the plastic tab. It is easier if you remove the surrounding keys to gain some working space.

With the space bar that may mean taking off the top case shell.

[E3E]

I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?

Holy **** man

What a find. Is the spacebar switch also SKCL Brown?

edit: The label says gold star alps

It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.

Yep, the space bar should be an SKCL Amber switch; it's been that way for every SKCL Brown board I have seen, from the Visual board, to the Tandem I owned (which was a banana compared to yours, though it had 101 keys), to others I've seen posted on korean forums (I believe). Any keyboard made in Korea has the chance of having SKCL Brown Alps.

IMO, it's like the same kind of chance game you get with SKCM Blue, in that the switch can come in many different boards, but those boards can come with several switches, except with SKCL Brown, you're on the next tier of difficulty, haha.

I took the SKCL Browns out of my Tandem keyboard because it was a dumb terminal board and wasn't usable off the bat. I made a project out of using them for my Alps NCR keyboard build, which used a Leeku 3000 Alps compatible PCB and an Acer 6011 plate (heavily modified to use Cherry PCB mount stabs) to mount the switches and use some Tai Hao FAME cherry profile caps.



Also drilled every switch so I could add backlighting to the keyboard, oh god.

Anyway, congrats on your find. It's probably the rarest Alps switch along with SKCM Green. People will be able to get a similar feel with SPRIT's spring GB coming up soon after swapping the approx weight into a linear switch. 

[Mattr567]

It could just be me but it feels stiffer than the other switches, I don't want to remove it because Alps stabs are a nightmare for me for some reason.

My preferred method is to seat the key on the switch with the wire dangling, then use a small flat-head screwdriver to gently seat the wire into the slot on the plastic tab. It is easier if you remove the surrounding keys to gain some working space.

With the space bar that may mean taking of the top case shell.

Yea, thats what I do too. Also have a method for when those plastic tabs come out with the wire. Have to get them angled right to reseat them in the plate properly.

[E3E]

Yeah, that Packard Bell has been noted before as having SKCL Brown, and so far, the only documentation of it has shown it to have SKCL Brown, at least as far as I know, so it might be one of, if not the only keyboard that ALWAYS has SKCL Brown.

[alienman82]

removed.

[fohat.digs]

why can't all the cherry threads be this active?

Because cherry is so boring.

[E3E]

I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?

I forgot to comment on the comparison:

So I've pretty much tried and currently own all the major linear switches with Alps: Yellow, Cream, Brown and Green.

Green is the lightest. Very smooth, but very airy and light. I can see people wanting something a little bit heavier.

Yellow is a little bit heavier. It's around 5-10g heavier than SKCL Green but is a big underdog most people don't care for. It's a nice switch, but I'm happy with SKCL Green and Brown.

Cream is a jump up from Yellow and it's a bit heavier. It's cushiony and feels almost as heavy as SKCL Brown.

Brown is the heaviest linear switch that you can found across a keyboard's alphanumeric keys. It's probably my favorite linear, but I like green a lot too.

So yeah, you're dealing the the heaviest linears. I use a SKCL brown spring in an SKCM Blue switch for my space bar on my Orion TKL. I don't mind uniform springs on any other SKCM blue board I have, but on the Orion, I have to have a heavier space bar spring.

Here's the weights I noted for the different switches. Used a roll of coins. I don't have a fancy weight system.

SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
SKCL Green - 52g

[klennkellon]

Next time I get some nickels I'll do a proper weight test.

They are at least lighter than my Model M, so at most they're 70g.

[E3E]

Next time I get some nickels I'll do a proper weight test.

They are at least lighter than my Model M, so at most they're 70g.

Those are bottom out weights though. I just tested it on my NCR, and the switch actuates at 60g. It takes 75 to fully bottom out the switch. Using nickles. I've got bundles for 50g, 25g, 20g, 15g, and 10g, haha.

Perhaps we should compare!

[emdude]

I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns?   

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I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila! 

It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.

Awesome find!  As another SoCal resident, perhaps there is still hope for a fun thrift store find for me. :p

[MandrewDavis]

why can't all the cherry threads be this active?

Because cherry is so boring.

The timeline, mystery and pursuit are part of what makes Alps so fun. Cherry lacks the vintage intrigue.

Does anyone have a reference for how comparable the springs in various switches are to those in SPRiT's GB?

[E3E]

For the Alps springs in SPRiT's group buy, there will be a testing period, and then I think the results of that will lead to those kinds of comparisons to give buyers a better idea.

[klennkellon]

I don't dare ever open these switches up, but I wonder how they would feel and sound if you put a Matias or SKCM White click leaf in them.

Also, these keycaps are interesting, they look like medium thick ABS but they are incredibly dense. No matter how hard I try I can just barely start to get them to bend.

[E3E]

I don't dare ever open these switches up, but I wonder how they would feel and sound if you put a Matias or SKCM White click leaf in them.

It'd just be like a heavier weighted version of those switches. You would need to swap an SKCM switch top onto it first though. My SKCM Blue with a SKCL Brown spring still sounds and feels like an SKCM Blue, but it's just heavier.

It's the tactile/click leaf that really effects the tactile feel and sound, so you'll pretty much just be changing weight. Keep in mind that that pleasant sound you get from the switches also comes from the key caps, case, and plate. It'd probably be a bit different in another case.

The key caps are Alps Electric double shot key caps. Yeah, they're pretty nice!

[mike52787]

Holy ****. I come back to check geekhack and klennkellon has found the board of the year. I wish I was that lucky )

[SBJ]

I have finally found something awesome today at the thrift store buried under a bunch of rubber domes!. SKCL Browns?   

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I haven't cleaned the board or anything, it looks to be in a near perfect state, little to no yellowing and all of the switches feel fine, except for the numpad 4 key which feels like there is something jammed in it, but it still registers. It works too, plugged it into my Model M's AT>PS/2 adapter and then to my blue cube and voila! 

It's also the oldest keyboard I own now, if I'm reading the label right it's from 1986 which makes it about a year older than my Model M.

  :eek:
Damn it our thrift stores suck here.

[klennkellon]

I think these rival the "Pingmasters" holy crud.

feature=youtu.be

[klennkellon]

Sorry for the double post, but I found out what was wrong with that one switch.

[alh84001]

OK, stupid question time. Are SKCM brown and SKCL brown in any way "related"? I mean, if you take out tactile leaf from SKCM Brown, would you get (near) SKCL Brown? Or are the springs and/or contact leaves completely different?

[alh84001]

Once I get my hand on the other handful I need for my TKL, I'll give you one =)

If you have anything left after that, PM me please

[chyros]

I think these rival the "Pingmasters" holy crud.

feature=youtu.be

Haha, yeah, earlier SKCL/SKCM switches, especially SKCL green, are known for their pinginess xD . That said, SKCCs are on a whole different level, everytime I try my Pingmaster or especially the M0110A I'm surprised by how loud it is xD . Apparently the Pingsaver is pretty bad as well.

[itzmeluigi]

Building my Alps64 in a few days, finally will be able to put these caps to good use(the alphas at least)

[alienman82]

removed.

[romevi]

Building my Alps64 in a few days, finally will be able to put these caps to good use(the alphas at least)

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Very cool. Which mods are you going to use?

[itzmeluigi]

Building my Alps64 in a few days, finally will be able to put these caps to good use(the alphas at least)

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Very cool. Which mods are you going to use?

Going to use the mods from a ANSI AEKII to match it  :)

Building my Alps64 in a few days, finally will be able to put these caps to good use(the alphas at least)

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very nice

Thanks been meaning to build something with it for such a long time  )

[E3E]

Hey guys, just a reminder that my Alps board is in the KOTM running right now, so if you guys dig it, please go vote, or just vote on whatever board you like the most, really.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83917.0|

My board also has those sweet SKCL Brown switches with backlighting. I really want to see someone else do some Alps SKCL backlighting across a board, haha. It's pretty cool to see a board with vintage switches that were never meant for that kind of thing kind of fit in with modern trends.

OK, stupid question time. Are SKCM brown and SKCL brown in any way "related"? I mean, if you take out tactile leaf from SKCM Brown, would you get (near) SKCL Brown? Or are the springs and/or contact leaves completely different?

Not a stupid question, my friend. In short, they are pretty different.

The slider color is EXACTLY the same between SKCL and SKCM Brown, however the slider is not the same. It is symmetrical on SKCL Brown (like SKCL Cream and SKCL Green, etc), but asymmetrical like most Alps switches on SKCM Brown.

I haven't measured the spring weight of SKCM Brown without a tactile leaf, but I think it is lighter than SKCL Brown. Most of the resistance from SKCM Brown comes from the leaf shape itself. The contact leaves are the same though.

[E3E]

Okay, wow. SKCM Brown has a seriously light spring.

I measured actuation at ~47.5 (9 nickles and a penny). Bottom out was at 50.

See the weird thing with Alps that makes it so hard to figure out a proper bottom out weight is, well... Sometimes the balance of the weight on the cap lets more or less weight sit on top of the switch before bottoming. I guess because of the weight distribution?

 I could get it to bottom with 50 though, every time. So it is much lighter than SKCL Brown.

So we've got a spring that's pretty much on par with SKCL Green in an otherwise heavy switch. The leaf spring really does take up all the resistance.

Testing SKCL Brown again, it bottoms at 70g. So actuation for brown is 60g and it bottoms at 70.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

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time to buy :D

Did that PCB not come with RGB LEDs above the nav cluster? It seems like they're missing.

[alienman82]

removed.

[digi]

I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?

I forgot to comment on the comparison:

So I've pretty much tried and currently own all the major linear switches with Alps: Yellow, Cream, Brown and Green.

Green is the lightest. Very smooth, but very airy and light. I can see people wanting something a little bit heavier.

Yellow is a little bit heavier. It's around 5-10g heavier than SKCL Green but is a big underdog most people don't care for. It's a nice switch, but I'm happy with SKCL Green and Brown.

Cream is a jump up from Yellow and it's a bit heavier. It's cushiony and feels almost as heavy as SKCL Brown.

Brown is the heaviest linear switch that you can found across a keyboard's alphanumeric keys. It's probably my favorite linear, but I like green a lot too.

So yeah, you're dealing the the heaviest linears. I use a SKCL brown spring in an SKCM Blue switch for my space bar on my Orion TKL. I don't mind uniform springs on any other SKCM blue board I have, but on the Orion, I have to have a heavier space bar spring.

Here's the weights I noted for the different switches. Used a roll of coins. I don't have a fancy weight system.

SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
SKCL Green - 52g

You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!

I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?

[alienman82]

removed.

[digi]

I'm going to keep it, I really like it and I was wanting a new Alps board. I take if you've tried them? How do they compare to the other linear Alps?

I forgot to comment on the comparison:

So I've pretty much tried and currently own all the major linear switches with Alps: Yellow, Cream, Brown and Green.

Green is the lightest. Very smooth, but very airy and light. I can see people wanting something a little bit heavier.

Yellow is a little bit heavier. It's around 5-10g heavier than SKCL Green but is a big underdog most people don't care for. It's a nice switch, but I'm happy with SKCL Green and Brown.

Cream is a jump up from Yellow and it's a bit heavier. It's cushiony and feels almost as heavy as SKCL Brown.

Brown is the heaviest linear switch that you can found across a keyboard's alphanumeric keys. It's probably my favorite linear, but I like green a lot too.

So yeah, you're dealing the the heaviest linears. I use a SKCL brown spring in an SKCM Blue switch for my space bar on my Orion TKL. I don't mind uniform springs on any other SKCM blue board I have, but on the Orion, I have to have a heavier space bar spring.

Here's the weights I noted for the different switches. Used a roll of coins. I don't have a fancy weight system.

SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g
SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g
SKCL Yellow - 65g
SKCL Green - 52g

You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!

I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?

a NIB ambers board just sold for $100.  I tried to get it for a friend in Canada, but someone beat me to it.

Damn, I need someone to sell me 25 amber switches so I can make a TKL when that GB goes live..I'm in no rush though..

[E3E]

You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!

I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?

I've tried pretty much everything haha. I haven't tried pine SKCM Black or OG SKCM Ivory/Cream from the Canon Typewriters, but those examples aren't very different from their counterparts from what I've read. Pine tops add more tactility and the Ivory switches are just a bit stiffer? Still want to try those though.

Ambers... I didn't like the click very much and it felt like I was typing on rocky road. I do want to buy an Apple IIc again and give them a second chance, but I traded all of mine for more blues lol.

I would say that the blacks in an AT101W aren't as heavy as SKCL Brown though, lemmie check, haha.

Edit: Nope, they're more like ghetto SKCL Yellows. All of those switches, SKCL Yellow, SKCM White, SKCM Salmon, SKCM Black and I think even SKCM Green, use the same weighting for the return spring.

I got my Apple IIc for $47. $100 is a nightmare. Ugh, damn the prices.

[digi]

You need to try Ambers son! Ambers and Blues are where it's at!

I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?

I've tried pretty much everything haha. I haven't tried pine SKCM Black or OG SKCM Ivory/Cream from the Canon Typewriters, but those examples aren't very different from their counterparts from what I've read. Pine tops add more tactility and the Ivory switches are just a bit stiffer? Still want to try those though.

Ambers... I didn't like the click very much and it felt like I was typing on rocky road. I do want to buy an Apple IIc again and give them a second chance, but I traded all of mine for more blues lol.

I would say that the blacks in an AT101W aren't as heavy as SKCL Brown though, lemmie check, haha.

Edit: Nope, they're more like ghetto SKCL Yellows. All of those switches, SKCL Yellow, SKCM White, SKCM Salmon, SKCM Black and I think even SKCM Green, use the same weighting for the return spring.

I got my Apple IIc for $47. $100 is a nightmare. Ugh, damn the prices.

I noticed there are at least two if not more model numbers on the Apple IIc keyboard p/n's themselves...I'm not sure if there is a difference between them and which ones carry Ambers, or do all of them have Ambers?

[E3E]

I noticed there are at least two if not more model numbers on the Apple IIc keyboard p/n's themselves...I'm not sure if there is a difference between them and which ones carry Ambers, or do all of them have Ambers?

The ones that always have ambers are the A2S4100 models. I think they're also known as the platinum versions, but I'm not 100% sure on that last bit. Nope, nevermind.

That model number is correct though.

[alienman82]

removed.

[alh84001]

I have what I like to call "Chyros Ghetto-Browns" (blacks with the leaves removed), really all you would need is a heavier spring and you could basically replicate Browns right?

These are pine blacks or bamboo blacks?

The slider color is EXACTLY the same between SKCL and SKCM Brown, however the slider is not the same. It is symmetrical on SKCL Brown (like SKCL Cream and SKCL Green, etc), but asymmetrical like most Alps switches on SKCM Brown.

The contact leaves are the same though.

And what is the exact purpose of the asymmetry that was introduced? Especially since contact leaves are the same.

a NIB ambers board just sold for $100.  I tried to get it for a friend in Canada, but someone beat me to it.

So I've been looking for Ambers for some two months, and now this happens. Not to mention this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-Macintosh-IIc-Compact-Computer-w-case-disks-power-untested-/272327510559
And when I bid on one that was in my proxy's hometown so there would be no local shipping cost, and the package was just the untested machine, it went for some $70. Alps hunt can really get frustrating, especially for us across the Atlantic. Deep breaths

(Did I mention I'm looking for a proxy in Arizona?  )

[digi]

I noticed there are at least two if not more model numbers on the Apple IIc keyboard p/n's themselves...I'm not sure if there is a difference between them and which ones carry Ambers, or do all of them have Ambers?

The ones that always have ambers are the A2S4100 models. I think they're also known as the platinum versions, but I'm not 100% sure on that last bit. Nope, nevermind.

That model number is correct though.

I'm guessing that's the p/n of the Apple IIC itself, the actualy keyboard number is like xxx-xxxx