Alps Appreciation Thread

[klennkellon]

The dampened cream switch Wingpad sent me was also a bit underwhelming. It kind of felt like SKCM Black but just slightly less rough and tactile.

[Moistgun]

The dampened cream switch Wingpad sent me was also a bit underwhelming. It kind of felt like SKCM Black but just slightly less rough and tactile.

I have to say, the click mod made them pretty satisfying to type on, just... different

Its like a heavier to actuate, and quieter Cherry MX green

[mike52787]

unmodded skcm creams (not dampened cream) are my current favorite switch. overall a great and honestly underrated switch.

[Wingpad]

I'd be far too paranoid to ever send my keyboards on a touring trip, mainly out of shipping mishaps than other GHers. Oh yes, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a switch with long switch plates as a base if I was planning on doing several top swaps. I always imagined that they help the feel a bit, perhaps a bit more solid, but who knows. It's probably minuscule at best.

Soldering is pretty chill though, I get you. Hot swapping entire switches is fun though.

I am willing to try and send the hypothetical board for a tour, I think people could enjoy it if a similar thing made another round. If I build it within the school year I won't have a helluva' lot of time to use it myself anyway, haha.

In any case, yeah, hot swapping would be awesome but I dunno' if it would be possible to make an Omnikey hot-swappable... unfortunately. Well anything is possible it's just a matter of would it be practical to make an Omnikey hot-swappable.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49604.msg1318608#msg1318608

You all are missing the point. The Omnikey has now been tested to be bird and glass proof. If *that isn't* a sign of how amazing this keyboard is, I don't know what else is. We pretty much had Hoffman shoot a turkey and glass at it like it was an aircraft engine and it survived. Now *that's* keyboard science.

unmodded skcm creams (not dampened cream) are my current favorite switch. overall a great and honestly underrated switch.

Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?

[emdude]

After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility.  I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.'

So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches.  Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.

I use click modded creams, and they are very tactile after the mod, before that there were very underwhelming.

with the mod I can say they are much stiffer than topre, and obviously the click makes it very different as well.

The dampened cream switch Wingpad sent me was also a bit underwhelming. It kind of felt like SKCM Black but just slightly less rough and tactile.

I was curious whether the rough feeling of Cream Damped (and likely Black) switches was due to the design of the tactile leaf, or perhaps the contact leaf, as Chyros suggested; Maybe the contact leaf of short switchplates were just shoddily constructed.

So, initially I linearised a Cream Damped switch and was surprised by how relatively unnoticeable the bump from the contact leaf was.  Then, I performed a transplant of a Cream Damped switch (slider, tactile leaf, and top housing) into a switch with a long, grey switchplate; the result was a similar, if not identical, feeling of roughness.  This was a pretty unscientific test and it would be nice to have had a force gauge or something to quantify this, but it seems that the tactile leaf was just badly designed.

[Mattr567]

After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility.  I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.'

So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches.  Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.

I use click modded creams, and they are very tactile after the mod, before that there were very underwhelming.

with the mod I can say they are much stiffer than topre, and obviously the click makes it very different as well.

The dampened cream switch Wingpad sent me was also a bit underwhelming. It kind of felt like SKCM Black but just slightly less rough and tactile.

I was curious whether the rough feeling of Cream Damped (and likely Black) switches was due to the design of the tactile leaf, or perhaps the contact leaf, as Chyros suggested; Maybe the contact leaf of short switchplates were just shoddily constructed.

So, initially I linearised a Cream Damped switch and was surprised by how relatively unnoticeable the bump from the contact leaf was.  Then, I performed a transplant of a Cream Damped switch (slider, tactile leaf, and top housing) into a switch with a long, grey switchplate; the result was a similar, if not identical, feeling of roughness.  This was a pretty unscientific test and it would be nice to have had a force gauge or something to quantify this, but it seems that the tactile leaf was just badly designed.

My SKCM Cream Damped from my old AEKII was not very rough at all, nothing like SKCM Black. A couple of other specimens I have are. I think some of the roughness could be down to condition. My modded SKCM White Damped which I sold off (dampers removed) felt very smooth in fact but hollow compared to lets say SKCM Orange.

I kinda want to buy another AEKII. Damp Alps definitely isn't my favorite but in a way the shorter softer typing feel was fun. The one I got off ebay was in great condition and was like new when I was done with it.

[Delirious]

In my opinion AEK series have some of the best looking keycaps out there for alps. From the material to the font, kerning, and curvature, everything is spot on. The only 2 weaknesses I could see is the non-standard bottom row and the dot placements on D and K.

.
.
.
.
.
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And the ****ed up F-row.

[E3E]

In any case, yeah, hot swapping would be awesome but I dunno' if it would be possible to make an Omnikey hot-swappable... unfortunately. Well anything is possible it's just a matter of would it be practical to make an Omnikey hot-swappable.

Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially  tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it. They are more proper for dual or multilayer PCBs too. Since the pads are on the bottom of the old ones, I'm not sure if the sockets would even make contact without you using some conductive ink to finish the job. They're more meant to chew into the vias of a PCB.

An Omnikey 101 isn't the most difficult board to find, but one that's been swapped to blue Alps is a bit of a different story and it'd definitely be frustrating if anything happened to it, but I'd commend anyone who sends a board on tour. I just couldn't, haha.

unmodded skcm creams (not dampened cream) are my current favorite switch. overall a great and honestly underrated switch.

These are really nice. Out of all the standard tactiles, it's my favorite too. Not sure how I place it against brown and green as they're just different beasts, but the lightness of cream and the tactility is nice. Really reminds me of SKCM Blue, though maybe a tiny bit heavier. Not entirely sure, but it seems so.

I was curious whether the rough feeling of Cream Damped (and likely Black) switches was due to the design of the tactile leaf, or perhaps the contact leaf, as Chyros suggested; Maybe the contact leaf of short switchplates were just shoddily constructed.

I'm not sure. The contact leaves look the same on short contact switch plates, but I used to feel that the fact the plate doesn't extend to the bottom and is instead sitting on two little raised nubs in the bottom housing made them less smooth. Chyros felt like this shouldn't lead to any significant feel differences.

I kind of agree, but I'm still not entirely sure. I'm thinking that full length plates might add a slight bit more of a solid feel (and maybe effect the sound a bit). SKCM Salmon certainly feel a little hollow to me, for instance.

Might have to try testing this by swapping SKCM Blue into SKCM Salmon housings and vise versa to see if there are any noticeable differences and do some blind testing to see if I can pick out the swapped versions from normal ones.

[chyros]

After using my SKCM Brown board for a bit, I am starting to think that the harsh bottoming-out is more of an issue than the somewhat stiff tactility.  I tried swapping in some Cream Damped sliders from my SGI and it actually feels pretty good; I have not tried Topre, but I wonder if this is the Alps version of 'being one with the cup rubber.'

So, I guess I will try to get some Cream/White Damped switches.  Don't want to steal sliders from the SGI just for this.

Do the brown Alps housings support the dampened sliders? =o

[balotz]

Just picked up this Zenith 163-73, in nearly unused condition. It's very pleasant to type on, the yellow alps are very smooth, and the buzzer on each keypress is an interesting substitute for the lack of tactility (I've only used clicky switches before). The PBT caps are also very nice.

It seems the ZKB-2(R) is more desirable as it has greens - is there much of difference between the green and yellow linears?

[alh84001]

I have to say, the click mod made them pretty satisfying to type on, just... different

Its like a heavier to actuate, and quieter Cherry MX green

I haven't tried MX greens, but that sounds really heavy to me. Sounds interesting.
As for click-modding, I only did that with two switches - SKCM black on an Esc key on a Dell AT101W which I didn't like at all, and SKCM Orange on Power on AEK which was quite nice.

Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially  tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it.

Thanks for sharing this. I was mulling doing this with an Omnikey 101, but in the end decided not to, it'd be too nerve-wrecking. This just confirms it

Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?

Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter? I think creams only come in ones with BAE.

[mike52787]

Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?

Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter? I think creams only come in ones with BAE.

My NeXT board has an ansi enter and SKCM Creams.

[alh84001]

Argh, brainfart. I confused the two in my head. It's the other way around.

[chyros]

Just picked up this Zenith 163-73, in nearly unused condition. It's very pleasant to type on, the yellow alps are very smooth, and the buzzer on each keypress is an interesting substitute for the lack of tactility (I've only used clicky switches before). The PBT caps are also very nice.

It seems the ZKB-2(R) is more desirable as it has greens - is there much of difference between the green and yellow linears?

(Attachment Link)

Awesome find! (Nearly) unused is how you want your Alps . The biggest difference between green and yellow is the weighting - greens are ca. 50 gf, yellows ca. 60 gf. I don't have a yellow Alps board yet, but from what I can tell off of other linear(ised) Alps, greens are disproportionally appreciated. I'm pretty sure ALL linear Alps will feel great if in great condition.

I have to say, the click mod made them pretty satisfying to type on, just... different

Its like a heavier to actuate, and quieter Cherry MX green

I haven't tried MX greens, but that sounds really heavy to me. Sounds interesting.
As for click-modding, I only did that with two switches - SKCM black on an Esc key on a Dell AT101W which I didn't like at all, and SKCM Orange on Power on AEK which was quite nice.

Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially  tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it.

Thanks for sharing this. I was mulling doing this with an Omnikey 101, but in the end decided not to, it'd be too nerve-wrecking. This just confirms it

Ever since our meetup, I have been trying to get my hands on some of these and found an amazing deal for two NeXT boards for $35; however, both came with Pine SKCM Blacks Although I actually kind of like the feeling of the cleaner board, they feel different than any of the other SKCM blacks I have tried before and, in fact, it's rather noticeable. I don't quite know how to explain it but they're smoother and bouncier?

Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter? I think creams only come in ones with BAE.

[Wingpad]

Haha, I was just teasing a little bit, but you're right. I initially  tested out a holtite socket on my old bricked NTC 6151N PCB, and the PCB cracked while trying to insert the socket. It's fine on modern PCBs, but I don't think the old one-sided PCBs are resilient enough to take the stress the sockets put on it. They are more proper for dual or multilayer PCBs too. Since the pads are on the bottom of the old ones, I'm not sure if the sockets would even make contact without you using some conductive ink to finish the job. They're more meant to chew into the vias of a PCB.

Haha, I figured as much. Good to know that it isn't feasible with an older, single-layer PCB; I wasn't expecting it to be. When I said anything is possible I meant fabbing a new plate/PCB combo that supports hot-swapping.

Do the brown Alps housings support the dampened sliders? =o

Yeah, there's actually a video of it floating around somewhere. EDIT: Here is the link.

Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter?

Yes, they are the same switches. New logo AT101's can come with Bamboo switches but I think all of the old logo ones are Pines.

One of mine came with a reverse-L enter key whilst the other one came with an ANSI enter key. So going in I knew I was getting at least one board with Black Alps... I was just hoping the other would come with Creams. At least I have some nice double-shot NeXT keycaps out of the deal.

[chyros]

Chyros had a video review comparing blacks from an early old-logo AT101 and ones from the later models, and also mentioned that the difference was like night and day. I assume the ones in the NeXT board are the same as the ones in the early Dell. Did both of your NeXT boards have an ANSI enter?

Yes, they are the same switches. New logo AT101's can come with Bamboo switches but I think all of the old logo ones are Pines.

Eh, I think that boils down to just a single model of AT101 actually, the old-logo '97SK, which is also the one I did the video on. Those pine black Alps are, no contest, nowhere near the same as bamboo ones, they're MUCH better.

[Wingpad]

Eh, I think that boils down to just a single model of AT101 actually, the old-logo '97SK, which is also the one I did the video on. Those pine black Alps are, no contest, nowhere near the same as bamboo ones, they're MUCH better.

So old logo AT101s can come with Bamboo Blacks?? I should clarify, what I meant is that all old logo AT101s that come with SKCM Blacks have Pine switches. I know most use SKCM Salmon switches.

[CPTBadAss]

Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:

+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.

+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.

I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.

I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.

To add on to this, you could hydro-dip or vinyl wrap as well.

[E3E]

So old logo AT101s can come with Bamboo Blacks?? I should clarify, what I meant is that all old logo AT101s that come with SKCM Blacks have Pine switches. I know most use SKCM Salmon switches.

I wouldn't say the salmons are more common, but probably more well-known as they are  sought after for their PBT caps. The AT101 old logos made in the USA are all PBT-capped SKCM Salmon boards.

The old logo AT101s made in Taiwan are SKCM Black with slits (pine). These are easier to find from what I've seen but often still marked up high on eBay.

The only one I don't have enough info on is the earliest of AT101s from the USA which used doubleshot ABS caps. The one I saw was literally in the double digits when it came to serial number. There was a Japanese-made US Layout model with ABS DS that had SKCM pine Black.

That one had no serial number, so it might've been a really early model. No idea.

Figured as much. Good to know that it isn't feasible with an older, single-layer PCB; I wasn't expecting it to be. When I said anything is possible I meant fabbing a new plate/PCB combo that supports hot-swapping.

Reminds me of what Mike was trying to do with his Avant Prime in trying to get a Leeku PCB for it.

[chyros]

Eh, I think that boils down to just a single model of AT101 actually, the old-logo '97SK, which is also the one I did the video on. Those pine black Alps are, no contest, nowhere near the same as bamboo ones, they're MUCH better.

So old logo AT101s can come with Bamboo Blacks?? I should clarify, what I meant is that all old logo AT101s that come with SKCM Blacks have Pine switches. I know most use SKCM Salmon switches.

No, what I mean is that there is only one old-logo AT101 model that doesn't come with salmons, which is the '97SK one, which has pine black Alps. It was the first model Silitek made for Dell when production was moved away from the US and Japan. It appears that the production of the new-logo version was concomitant with a redesign or update that included the newer bamboo model of black Alps. Silitek must have bought millions of these switches from Alps as they kept on making these boards years into simplified Alps territory, I own one from 2001 Oo .

Note that the update/redesign did NOT get accompanied by an FCC ID change. There are new-logo '97SK models out there, which do have bamboo Alps.

[E3E]

Haha, I think just simplifying them down to:

Old Logo US-Made AT101 =  SKCM Salmon and PBT key caps

and

Old Logo Taiwan-made AT101 = pine SKCM Black and ABS key caps

...makes it easy to remember, aside from those mysterious super early model old logos that are barely seen and not documented in detail at all. I want one.

[emdude]

That's certainly easier than trying to keep track of particular FCC IDs.

[chyros]

That's certainly easier than trying to keep track of particular FCC IDs.

Nah, you get used to it. Especially when you've had them all xD .

[emdude]

That's certainly easier than trying to keep track of particular FCC IDs.

Nah, you get used to it. Especially when you've had them all xD .

I only really kept in mind one FCC ID (now two I guess) for the old logo AT101s, but I often get things mixed-up and have to double-check the DT wiki or some thread just to be sure. 

This is also the case when I'm looking at a keyboard that may have used different switches in its lifetime.  Kinda tricky and I don't want to end up with a board that has Mitsumis instead of Alps or whatever.

[chyros]

That's certainly easier than trying to keep track of particular FCC IDs.

Nah, you get used to it. Especially when you've had them all xD .

I only really kept in mind one FCC ID (now two I guess) for the old logo AT101s, but I often get things mixed-up and have to double-check the DT wiki or some thread just to be sure. 

This is also the case when I'm looking at a keyboard that may have used different switches in its lifetime.  Kinda tricky and I don't want to end up with a board that has Mitsumis instead of Alps or whatever.

You can kind of remember the chronological order by inverse number size of the FCC ID. First was 101, then 97, then 95, then 92, then 90. Salmon Alps and PBT caps, pine black Alps and UV-printed caps, bamboo black Alps, windows keys, lasered caps.

[Hypersphere]

Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:

+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.

+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.

I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.

I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.

To add on to this, you could hydro-dip or vinyl wrap as well.

Thanks for the additional ways to change the color of a keyboard case.

I decided to go with Dupli-color for vinyl in a burgundy red.  I've posted the pics in the following threads:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83918.msg2249799#msg2249799

https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/northgate-omnikey-101-skcm-white-alps-t14376-30.html#p326691

And for convenience here:

[Wingpad]

Regarding changing the color of the Omnikey 101 top case, it seems there are four ways of coating and/or coloring keyboard cases and/or plates:

+ Powder coat -- Fine for metals, but generally the required temperatures are too high for most polymers. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Paint -- Okay for metals. For polymers, the solvent type needs to be compatible with the particular plastic. Good for DIY.

+ Cerakote -- Can be used on metals or plastics. The thin coating does not require high-temperature curing. Requires specialized equipment.

+ Vinyl dye -- For polymers and some fabrics. Penetrates into the plastic; does not build up into a thick coating. Seems more forgiving than paint.

I've gotten some excellent advice on all these methods from various people, including XMIT and Fohat. Putting it all together, I think I am going to try vinyl dye. Fohat recommended Dupli-Color, which he says is actually a thin coating rather than a dye, but it appears to use the same application methods as other products that go under the classification of vinyl dyes, such as the vinyl coloring products made by SEM and VHT.

I hope to get to this project during the next couple of weeks.

To add on to this, you could hydro-dip or vinyl wrap as well.

Thanks for the additional ways to change the color of a keyboard case.

I decided to go with Dupli-color for vinyl in a burgundy red.  I've posted the pics in the following threads:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83918.msg2249799#msg2249799

https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/northgate-omnikey-101-skcm-white-alps-t14376-30.html#p326691

And for convenience here:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Niiice, that looks sick as heck! What'd you use for the bottom row keys?

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

[Hypersphere]

@Wingpad: For the bottom-row 1.5x Ctrl/Alt and 7.0x Spacebar keys, I used blank black ABS keycaps from Matias. All the other keys are from the Tai-Hao Alps-mount Dolch set.

[E3E]

Yeah, instead of wasting so many space bars trying to dye them, I would've totally used a Matias bar if I had known they'd work with Alps stabs. The cruciform mount seemed iffy. Hypersphere, does a key cap set come with the stab inserts and wire or do you need to buy those separately? I'd assume for a better business model, they'd separate them. 

Does the Omnikey's space bar use cruciform Cherry stabs or traditional Alps? My Focus FK-555 uses Cherry stabs in the plate for the space bar.

[mike52787]

Yeah, instead of wasting so many space bars trying to dye them, I would've totally used a Matias bar if I had known they'd work with Alps stabs. The cruciform mount seemed iffy. Hypersphere, does a key cap set come with the stab inserts and wire or do you need to buy those separately? I'd assume for a better business model, they'd separate them. 

Does the Omnikey's space bar use cruciform Cherry stabs or traditional Alps? My Focus FK-555 uses Cherry stabs in the plate for the space bar.

Mine uses alps stabs.

[emdude]

Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?



I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.

[chyros]

Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?

Show Image

I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.

That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .

[Hypersphere]

@emdude: No, the Matias spacebars do not have mounts for the stabilizing plungers.

If I recall correctly, I used the Matias spacebar wire and put the mounting clips that go into the Cherry cruciform mounts with their openings facing toward the back of the keyboard. This orientation and the lack of plungers made it much easier to install the spacebar than was the case with the stock spacebar.

I also slipped a red O-ring (40A-L, 0.2 mm thick) onto the spacebar switch slider. Note that if you use these Cherry mx O-rings on Alps switches, the O-ring has to go onto the switch slider rather than the keycap stem. This prevents the spacebar from bottoming out and lessens the noise somewhat. You might accomplish the same thing by putting slightly thicker shock absorbers under the spacebar inserts -- the material I had was about 1 mm thick, which was too thick. I am looking into thinner materials that could be used for this purpose. In any event,  my Matias spacebar does not rattle and it seems about as quiet as the stock spacebar.

[emdude]

Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?

Show Image

I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.

That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .

That's interesting, I thought it was the norm.  All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.

[Mattr567]

Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?

Show Image

I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.

That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .

That's interesting, I thought it was the norm.  All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.

Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.

The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.

[E3E]

That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .

That's interesting, I thought it was the norm.  All of my Alps boards had those, including the AEK.

I'd say that they are the norm for Alps-made key caps. Tai Hao goes either way. I've seen some with molded rods and sliding wire stabs, I've seen some with Cherry cruciform mount stab positions. However, with anything that had caps made by Alps Electric for Alps SKCM/SKCL, the space bars almost always have removable pegs and wire stabs.

The space bar for my IBM P70 had molded rods instead of removable pegs. The Bondwell 8T PRO laptop uses two SKCL Creams for the space bar. Never looked to see if it uses a peg.

@emdude: No, the Matias spacebars do not have mounts for the stabilizing plungers.

If I recall correctly, I used the Matias spacebar wire and put the mounting clips that go into the Cherry cruciform mounts with their openings facing toward the back of the keyboard. This orientation and the lack of plungers made it much easier to install the spacebar than was the case with the stock spacebar.

Do the Matias caps come with stab equipment (wires and inserts) or is that sold separately?

Also, for restoring Alps keyboards, I either use .5mm rubber pads or foam. For my Orion, the pads I took off of a junked FK-2001 worked perfectly. I think they were a bit thicker, but they didn't inhibit the travel at all.

Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.

The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.

Did you ever notice how the NeXT's mod keys are incompatible with typical boards/plates? The stabs are mounted backwards and the holes on the plate are near the upper edge of the cap as opposed to the bottom.

Yeah, the FK-2001 had two pegs as well. The AT101W and Taiwanese old logo AT101 have this as well.

[Hypersphere]

@E3E: Where do you get the 0.5 mm rubber pads?

[chyros]

Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?

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I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.

That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .

That's interesting, I thought it was the norm.  All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.

Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.

The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.

Sorry, I should have been more specific, with two rods and sliding stabilisers and in 7u xD .

[Mattr567]

Do those space bars have mounts for the plungers?

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I've noticed that space bars without them are annoyingly rattly.

That's a fairly uncommon type of spacebar btw, with rods AND sliding wire stabs. I found that out when I needed one and it turned out none of mine are like that xD .

That's interesting, I thought it was the norm.  All of my Alps boards had those or something like it, including my AEK, SGI, for example.

Same. My Packard Bell, SGI, NeXT and my FK-3001 has rods and wire stabs.

The 3001 actually has TWO rods + wire. Feels better.

Sorry, I should have been more specific, with two rods and sliding stabilisers and in 7u xD .

Oh, well yea thats a lot less common. As E3E said Focus and some Dell AT101/W's has two rods.

[Hypersphere]

Here is my second Northgate Omnikey 101 with SKCM white Alps. This one I painted black and -- for now at least -- I have kept the stock doubleshot keycaps. Thanks again to XMIT and Fohat for detailed assistance on painting technique and product recommendations!





This keyboard was extremely dirty when I received it from eBay, but it cleaned up quite well with no apparent yellowing of the keycaps. Perhaps the dirt acted as a UV shield!

Unfortunately, some dirt may have found its way into the switches, and/or they may be somewhat worn, as they do not feel as light and smooth as those on my first Omnikey 101 (the one that I painted burgundy red). Even so, the switches are good enough that I do not think I will try opening and cleaning them.

Although it is a treat typing on good Alps switches, I still prefer smaller boards in TKL or 60% format. Unfortunately, most genuine Alps boards were made in full-size format, although there were some in intermediate formats, such as XT or 75%. It is possible to get compact Matias-switch keyboards from Matias or KBP, but whereas I like Matias switches, I prefer various flavors of genuine Alps, such as SKCM white, or even better, SKCM blue.

Now that I have addressed -- if not entirely conquered -- my painting anxiety, one of my next goals is to learn desoldering technique as well as refresh and refine my soldering skills. This is mainly to get ready for harvesting blue Alps switches and doing a custom 60% build. I already have the PCB, plate, stabilizers, and keycaps. All that remains is finding a suitable donor board and desoldering the switches. This of course poses a dilemma -- is it better to use an intact blue Alps board or to use it as a donor? Others will have different opinions, but for me, the answer lies in weighing the usability of the potential donor against that of a custom build.

Another solution to my dilemma is to find a source of loose SKCM blue Alps switches in excellent condition. If anyone here is willing to sell at least 60 of these for a reasonable price, please send me a PM!

[Blaise170]

I have about 200 Blue Alps available but they aren't in very good condition.

[chyros]

Blue Alps from the recycling centre, it is possible!

[Wingpad]

Blue Alps from the recycling centre, it is possible!

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Wow, nice find! That looks super clean, too How do they feel?

[chyros]

Blue Alps from the recycling centre, it is possible!

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Wow, nice find! That looks super clean, too How do they feel?

They're in pretty good nick tbh . Not as pristine as the Acer obviously, but definitely representative of blue Alps .

[Wingpad]

They're in pretty good nick tbh . Not as pristine as the Acer obviously, but definitely representative of blue Alps .

Awesome, what kind of board did you find them in? Definitely something with a BAE, haha

EDIT: That bottom row is rather distinctive though, it looks like it only has one set of modifiers (whereas a normal board would have two, ctrl-alt).

[chyros]

They're in pretty good nick tbh . Not as pristine as the Acer obviously, but definitely representative of blue Alps .

Awesome, what kind of board did you find them in? Definitely something with a BAE, haha

EDIT: That bottom row is rather distinctive though, it looks like it only has one set of modifiers (whereas a normal board would have two, ctrl-alt).

Yes, it has a BAE, but the layout is rather bizarre, I' don't think I've ever seen something like it before Oo . Should make a nice review .

[Mattr567]

Great find Chryos!

[emdude]

So I went ahead and swapped Cream Damped sliders from my SGI into my SKCM Brown board, I have an AEK II on the way but I got too impatient:



First off, the fit is ridiculously loose.  The SGI key caps had fit in the Cream Damped sliders as tightly as one would expect for Alps, but not the 5140 key caps.  The fit is so loose that the key caps are easily removable without the help of a key cap puller.  The bottom row modifiers are especially bad; they would just slide off if the board was turned upside-down.  I had to use that tape trick to fit them properly.  If the Cream Damped sliders from the AEK II are a better fit, then I will swap these sliders out for those.

As for feel and sound: As much as I like SKCM Browns, typing on them made my fingers feel like they were ramming into brick walls.  With damped sliders though, typing is much more comfortable.  Interestingly enough, the board now sounds a lot like an HHKB Type-S (perhaps a bit quieter, and this is based on demonstration videos of the Type-S as well).

Following the discussion on the space bar plungers yesterday, I also decided to tack on a plunger from a 5140 space bar (hope no one needs a 5u space bar!) with some epoxy:



The space bar is stabilized much more nicely now and isn't as loud.  I still need to get foam or something to dampen the impact of the wire stabilizer inserts though.

[mike52787]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-MultiSpeed-EL-PC-16-02-Untested-As-Is/262590869926?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D8372a73b249342d2a198d45755e447fa%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D35%26sd%3D222230897652
correct me if Im wrong, but those really look like alps caps to me. wondering what switches are in there. The pop up cap is also really interesting.

[Wingpad]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEC-MultiSpeed-EL-PC-16-02-Untested-As-Is/262590869926?_trksid=p5713.c100041.m2061&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140109102600%26meid%3D8372a73b249342d2a198d45755e447fa%26pid%3D100041%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D35%26sd%3D222230897652
correct me if Im wrong, but those really look like alps caps to me. wondering what switches are in there. The pop up cap is also really interesting.

The Lock Keys definitely look very Alps-esque. If it goes without bids I might throw one on there just to see what's under those caps.