Alps Appreciation Thread

[chyros]

So, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.

My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.

I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?

There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.

I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?

I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.

That's a lot of questions.

1) Clicky Alps are very loud. Louder than MX blue for sure, but the noise isn't as piercing. In fact the noise is pretty amazing.
2) Tactile Alps still make a fair bit of noise. The people in my office didn't mind it when I used one, but it's far from silent.
3) Dampened Alps are very quiet, among the quietest mechanical switches. Still not as quiet as cheap rubber domes, though.
4) Topre switches and dampened Matiases are also very quiet.
5) Personally I like orange and salmon Alps the best, and black Alps the least (although pine ones are still very nice). Dampened ones are a bit hit-and-miss; some people like them, others don't. The feel is quite different from normal tactile Alps switches.

[Hypersphere]

@menuhin: I actually like Matias switches -- Click and Quiet; Quiet Linear, not so much. They are okay in the KBP V60, but I don't like the overall effect of Matias keyboards, which remind me of Fischer-Price toys. I think that Matias uses a polycarbonate plastic for its cases, and the glossy finish shows fingerprints.

Although I like Matias switches (but not Matias keyboards), I like vintage Alps much more, and I applaud your interest in doing a custom build.

The sound of a switch depends upon the switch itself and the keyboard in which it is installed. However, in general, clicky Alps are not as loud as clicky Matias switches, tactile Alps are usually not as loud as clicky Alps, and damped Alps are usually not as loud as clicky or tactile Alps. If you bottom-out your keystrokes as I do, and if you want quiet, then you may wish to go for a damped switch (although I find the damping to result in a somewhat mushy feel).

My V60 Matias Quiet board is almost as quiet as my silenced and lubed Topre-switch RF87U or HHKB Pro 2.

Take a look at the Alps SKCL/SKCM series wiki on DT:

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series

This tells you a great deal about each type of Alps switch, and it has links to the keyboards that have the various kinds of switches.

You may wish to try some vintage boards to help you decide which switch type you want for your custom build.

Best wishes!

[mike52787]

So, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.

My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.

I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?

There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.

I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?

I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.

SKCM Cream = best

[pabile]

@pabile I found out that there is usually not enough soldering tin to transfer the heat to it if you go the other way round. Granted, I don't have the best soldering iron, but I found it easier to do it the way I described. Also, watch out that tweezers or whatever you use for bending pins bag is not sharp/hard as you can scratch the PCB. Usually it shouldn't do any damage, but it's better to be safe then sorry.

thanks for the input. i'll your suggestion on the first row. if everything goes well, i'll proceed. will let you know

@menuhin i personally dont like damped alps switches. that double bump kills it. i am currently experimenting on modded matias qc. matias qc with clicky leaves from alps clone. it's damped but with supressed click without the 2x bump. i kind of like it and will try it on my 2nd alps64 from hasu.

Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk

[Hypersphere]

Does anyone here know what kind of printing was used on keycaps from a SIIG Supertouch KB101K with white Alps switches? The keycaps have a nice pumice-like texture. At first, I thought they might have been dye-sub PBT, but I did the acetone test on the inside of a cap, and this indicated ABS rather than PBT. However, the lettering looks like dye-sub to me. I don't have a camera with a macro lens, so I don't think my potato pics would be of much help.

[menuhin]

More

So, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.

My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.

I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?

There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.

I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?

I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.

SKCM Cream = best

SKCM Cream == Cream dampen ?

[chyros]

More

So, the more I read this thread, the more I think I am going to forget about Matias' (Quiet Click) switches and instead join the old ALPS keyboards mutilation gang.

My first task for this would be to figure out what ALPS switches I would like. I remember I like the keyboards with those SGI Indigo machines, but I remember trying out a Matias Apple keyboard and I believe I hated it. Something has to do with the switches themselves as well as the keyboard housing and material of key caps.
And there is no ALPS switches tester around in my city.

I know that I don't like switches that are too loud so that I may disturb people, e.g. those in the library or in an office. There are three major categories: clicky, tactile, and tactile dampened, and my related questions are:
How loud are the clicky ALPS? As loud as Cherry MX blue?
How quiet are the tactile ALPS? Are they noticeably louder than then tactile dampened? Will they be disturbing for people and colleagues around?
How would you compare the noise level of tactile dampened ALPS to say, Matias Quiet-Click or HHKB Type-S or Realforce 87U 'Silent'?

There are eight types of tactile and tactile dampened ALPS:
Alps SKCM Brown, Alps SKCM Cream, Alps SKCM Orange, Alps SKCM Salmon, Alps SKCM Black, Alps SKCM Cream Damped, Alps SKCM Green, Alps SKCM White Damped
Are there any of these ALPS that I should particularly avoid? For example, a few posts lowly evaluated the Alps SKCM Black.
Not all of them are listed (on Deskthority) with spring leaf weight ratings, which one are relatively heavy? I like heavier switches, but I also like smooth switches.

I know there is a whole list of keyboard on the wiki, but to cut the search.
What are some of the more common keyboards I can find to harvest switches?

I may be getting the Alpha64 from Hasu as well - I hope that it is compatible with some of those GH80 cases. I'm not even thinking about the key caps now - I like colorways, but it is still hopeless for ALPS right now in terms of color choice. Thanks in advance.

SKCM Cream = best

SKCM Cream == Cream dampen ?

No, they also made undamped versions which are closely related to SKCM orange and salmon.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Wingpad]

are they better than orange?

It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."

[Hypersphere]

I have an AEK with Orange Alps and a non-ADB ANSI NeXT with undamped Cream Alps. I prefer the sound and feel of the NeXT with undamped Cream Alps. However, it is important to remember that the sound and feel of a switch is dependent upon the keyboard in which the switch is installed. Moreover, perception depends on the individual!

[chyros]

are they better than orange?

It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."

Are there even enough people with both in representative condition for a general consensus to form, though?

[alienman82]

removed.

[Wingpad]

are they better than orange?

It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."

Are there even enough people with both in representative condition for a general consensus to form, though?

This is a valid point that I hadn't considered... the consensus among those with both in representative condition is "yes."

Is that more accurate now?

As someone that has both in representative condition, my answer is yes. That being said, I'm typing on an Orange Alps board right now, haha.

[mike52787]

are they better than orange?

It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."

Are there even enough people with both in representative condition for a general consensus to form, though?

regardless I will be trying them soon I think.  Someone is lending me a 60%with them 

wonder who that is??? <3

[Mattr567]

So as a way to save money (read the money went to upgrading my B5 A4) do you think the SGI would be a good fit for the SKCL Striped Amber's? It has kinda become redundant since I got the NeXT, with SKCM Cream being better than Orange and all.

I have 95 Ambers, so I would use 5 greens in the nav cluster, with End being the sole Amber.

[Hypersphere]

This is prompting me to dig out my non-ADB ANSI NeXT with undamped cream Alps to give it another go. As I recall, I liked the switches, form factor, and layout, but I was not fond of the case material or keycaps (although I already replaced the alphas with dye-sub PBT caps from an SGI Granite).

[MandrewDavis]

are they better than orange?

It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."

I like orange alps better than the undampened creams (ivory). BTW I just got an email that Cindy's store has newly stocked AEKs with oranges.

[alienman82]

removed.

[mike52787]

beer >> cream alps.

****er's drunk again

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

Sooooo is SKCL Striped Amber in a SGI a good idea? Popped one in and felt nice.

[E3E]

Sooooo is SKCL Striped Amber in a SGI a good idea? Popped one in and felt nice.

Hmmm, it's a solid case, but nothing nifty. Why not hold out for a Wang or something else a bit more exotic? You could always swap the blues out of your Packard. Nah, that wouldn't be right. 
 
I feel like they deserve something a little different, but I'm not sure what to suggest.

[Hak Foo]

I'm fond of the SGI because it's straight ANSI and I like the keycaps and case treatment.  It's not the most durable board in the world-- probably should get a Northgate for that-- but I would not consider it incompetent at all.

[Mattr567]

Sooooo is SKCL Striped Amber in a SGI a good idea? Popped one in and felt nice.

Hmmm, it's a solid case, but nothing nifty. Why not hold out for a Wang or something else a bit more exotic? You could always swap the blues out of your Packard. Nah, that wouldn't be right. 
 
I feel like they deserve something a little different, but I'm not sure what to suggest.

Better than a V80 in terms of exotic lol. Obviously would never touch the Packard but besides being awesome and rare it's not to too different from the SGI in terms of layout etc.

Interesting look, great caps and a perfect layout. Seems to be a good fit to me. Plus it costs nothing and I get a surplus of SKCM Orange.

I'm fond of the SGI because it's straight ANSI and I like the keycaps and case treatment.  It's not the most durable board in the world-- probably should get a Northgate for that-- but I would not consider it incompetent at all.

What I was thinking. A straight ANSI Northgate would be awesome but they seem less common than the BAE ones and can get pricy.

[Norman_the_Owl]

are they better than orange?

It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."

I like orange alps better than the undampened creams (ivory). BTW I just got an email that Cindy's store has newly stocked AEKs with oranges.

They've been in stock a while, 8 complete ones 2 with 2 missing caps each last i checked.

I've been eyeing them up, Harvest the oranges and the caps and make something custom. Maybe...

[kawasaki161]

are they better than orange?

It's pretty subjective but the general consensus is "yes."

I like orange alps better than the undampened creams (ivory). BTW I just got an email that Cindy's store has newly stocked AEKs with oranges.

They've been in stock a while, 8 complete ones 2 with 2 missing caps each last i checked.

I've been eyeing them up, Harvest the oranges and the caps and make something custom. Maybe...

Same, would also be my first real ALPS board, but shipping is ~$60 which is just ridiculous.

[Hypersphere]

I am typing this on my non-ADB NeXT with non-damped cream Alps and dye-sub PBT alphas from an SGI Granite.

Again, I like the form factor and layout of the board (although I am using a Hasu converter programmed for a HHKB-like layout). However, the board has some negatives. For one thing, it pings. The case shows fingerprints and smudges, and the stock caps do not seem to hide shine well. I am not fond of the non-detachable coiled cable -- I would consider putting the converter inside the case and installing a panel-mount micro-USB connector for a detachable micro-USB cable.

I sort of like the cream switches, but although they are rated at the same actuation force as blue Alps in the DT wiki, they feel heavier to me. I almost don't notice the tactile bump, but maybe it registers subconsciously because I seem to type better on cream Alps then I do on linear Alps such as greens or yellows. Nevertheless, I think I need both tactile and auditory feedback. I still prefer clicky Alps (blue or white; I haven't tried Amber).

[chyros]

I am typing this on my non-ADB NeXT with non-damped cream Alps and dye-sub PBT alphas from an SGI Granite.

Again, I like the form factor and layout of the board (although I am using a Hasu converter programmed for a HHKB-like layout). However, the board has some negatives. For one thing, it pings. The case shows fingerprints and smudges, and the stock caps do not seem to hide shine well. I am not fond of the non-detachable coiled cable -- I would consider putting the converter inside the case and installing a panel-mount micro-USB connector for a detachable micro-USB cable.

I sort of like the cream switches, but although they are rated at the same actuation force as blue Alps in the DT wiki, they feel heavier to me. I almost don't notice the tactile bump, but maybe it registers subconsciously because I seem to type better on cream Alps then I do on linear Alps such as greens or yellows. Nevertheless, I think I need both tactile and auditory feedback. I still prefer clicky Alps (blue or white; I haven't tried Amber).

Is your creams board in good condition? With Alps even a small amount of dirt or dust tends to impact keyfeel dramatically. Also the tactile weight of the switch doesn't necessarily coincide with the amount of work needed to press a switch.

Amber Alps are similar to blue Alps, except a bit stiffer and much more tactile.

[Hypersphere]

My NeXT board is in good condition. However, the switches exhibit a slight degree of binding, which is elicited by pressing down on the upper-right corner of the keys, especially keys larger than 1.00x. Likewise, my Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps has a bit of binding, but my Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps has no binding at all. Normally, I do not press keys in the upper-right corner; I just use this as a qualitative test of the condition of Alps switches.

[menuhin]

I am typing this on my non-ADB NeXT with non-damped cream Alps and dye-sub PBT alphas from an SGI Granite.

More

Again, I like the form factor and layout of the board (although I am using a Hasu converter programmed for a HHKB-like layout). However, the board has some negatives. For one thing, it pings. The case shows fingerprints and smudges, and the stock caps do not seem to hide shine well. I am not fond of the non-detachable coiled cable -- I would consider putting the converter inside the case and installing a panel-mount micro-USB connector for a detachable micro-USB cable.

I sort of like the cream switches, but although they are rated at the same actuation force as blue Alps in the DT wiki, they feel heavier to me. I almost don't notice the tactile bump, but maybe it registers subconsciously because I seem to type better on cream Alps then I do on linear Alps such as greens or yellows. Nevertheless, I think I need both tactile and auditory feedback. I still prefer clicky Alps (blue or white; I haven't tried Amber).

This statement is totally obscure to people outside the keyboard geek community.

Is there any Media (photo & video) thread in GH specifically about the ALPS keyboards?

Edit: Okay, found a few below
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76021.msg1893115#msg1893115
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55731.msg1254023#msg1254023
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35324.msg655534#msg655534

[fohat.digs]

This statement is totally obscure to people outside the keyboard geek community.

Not actually about Alps switches at all, but -

I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.

Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.

And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.

[Wingpad]

This statement is totally obscure to people outside the keyboard geek community.

Not actually about Alps switches at all, but -

More

I feel ashamed when I see a grown up man say things like "...a sharp drop at the actuation point at around 2/3 - 3/4 way down the..."

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than yammering away on the minute details of a keyboard? I have both an M and an F that I picked up at goodwill for nothing 15 years ago and for the first time yesterday I googled about them and found 'enthusiast' (here an euphemism for retarded) websites where idiots bounce off the walls telling each other about the orgasms per second they have when using them. And 'using' is an overstatement with 90% of those morons. Most are busy opening them, cleaning the last atom of dirt off them, 'restoring' what doesn't need any restoration, 'upgrading', thinking of names for them, 'modding', taking photos, showing them off, in general jerking off about the clicky sensations and the superb accuracy of their typing and other general uber-dorkiness. What I never found there was anything useful to do with them, ie. actually program a computer.

Go type 'messenger lectures' in youtube and see what smart people look like, then kill yourself disassembling your One True Keyboard(TM) for the nth time and swallowing all the buckling springs.

And then mail one of your remaining model Fs to me.

I don't say this often... but that is truly "special." Well, I guess I know what my weekend plans are

[fohat.digs]

I don't say this often ... but that is truly "special."

It is probably at least half a decade old, possibly pre-dating "r00tw0rm", but still a gem.

The original post may be lost in the mists of history, but there was speculation that "anonymous coward" was actually Ripster.

[alienman82]

removed.

[chyros]

My NeXT board is in good condition. However, the switches exhibit a slight degree of binding, which is elicited by pressing down on the upper-right corner of the keys, especially keys larger than 1.00x. Likewise, my Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps has a bit of binding, but my Leading Edge DC-3014 with blue Alps has no binding at all. Normally, I do not press keys in the upper-right corner; I just use this as a qualitative test of the condition of Alps switches.

In my experience with dozens of Alps keyboards, I've found Alps keyboards are almost without exception NOT in representative condition if they show ANY of the following symptoms:
-One or more of the keys bind
-One or more of the keycaps have shine to them
-The mounting plate shows corrosion spots
-The keyboard has dust or dirt between the switches

In any of these cases, I would say your Alps board does not give a good indication of what Alps switches feel like; hence why I keep pushing people to only buy pristine Alps boards. I'm sure the majority of Alps keyboard users only own unrepresentative keyboards for this reason xD.

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Could it be that you have already bought up all the "representative" Alps keyboards? The rest of us have to muddle through with less-than-pristine Alps boards.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Hypersphere]

There seem to be exceptions to the pristine rule. I have now bought 5 Northgate Omnikey 101 white Alps boards to refurbish. Based on outward appearance, including the amount of corrosion on the plate, the one that was in the worst shape turned out to be the best with respect to the feel of the switches. It seems reasonable that the thing that matters is the condition of the switches themselves, in which case I would agree with Chyros.

There is also a generational factor in play, whereby older Alps in good shape can sound and feel better than newer Alps in excellent shape.

And not to forget the chassis effect -- I just received a SunTouch 101 with white Alps that appear to be pristine, but I prefer typing on an Omnikey 101 with white Alps. It might be that the white Alps in the Omnikey 101 are of an earlier generation than those in the Suntouch 101.

I'm typing this on a Leading Edge DC-2014 with blue Alps. I like the sound and feel of this board very much, but the Return key feels a bit awkward, and the layout is not ideal. If this board were ANSI-fied, it would be great (for me).

[chyros]

@Chyros: Could it be that you have already bought up all the "representative" Alps keyboards? The rest of us have to muddle through with less-than-pristine Alps boards.

The boards I tend to get from the recycling centre, bizarrely, are almost always either super horrible or super clean. There are tons of Alps boards sitting in a box on a shelf or something in all kinds of places, I'm sure there's plenty more fish in the sea .

There seem to be exceptions to the pristine rule. I have now bought 5 Northgate Omnikey 101 white Alps boards to refurbish. Based on outward appearance, including the amount of corrosion on the plate, the one that was in the worst shape turned out to be the best with respect to the feel of the switches. It seems reasonable that the thing that matters is the condition of the switches themselves, in which case I would agree with Chyros.

It sounds like all five of your OmniKeys are in non-representative condition if I'm brutally honest .

[zslane]

I don't say this often ... but that is truly "special."

It is probably at least half a decade old, possibly pre-dating "r00tw0rm", but still a gem.

The original post may be lost in the mists of history, but there was speculation that "anonymous coward" was actually Ripster.

that post is so trollish it's funny

Totally! Doesn't make the observations entirely untrue though... 

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: 5/5 "non-representative" seems like quite a run of bad luck, but on the other hand, 5 out of the total universe of Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards is admittedly a small sample. Even so, I am much happier typing on my crippled Alps boards than any Cherry mx board I have ever tried. Moreover, when I take an Alps board through my complete refurbishing process, it ends up performing quite well, with no chattering and little or no binding even when a large key is pressed on the extreme upper right corner.

[chyros]

@Chyros: 5/5 "non-representative" seems like quite a run of bad luck, but on the other hand, 5 out of the total universe of Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards is admittedly a small sample. Even so, I am much happier typing on my crippled Alps boards than any Cherry mx board I have ever tried. Moreover, when I take an Alps board through my complete refurbishing process, it ends up performing quite well, with no chattering and little or no binding even when a large key is pressed on the extreme upper right corner.

Out of over two dozen AT101s (I lost count ages ago) I've had, no more than four, maybe five at a stretch were representative - and three of those were NIB .

[alienman82]

removed.

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Perhaps "representative" is a misnomer. Statistically, it would seem that if only 4 to 5 out of > 24 keyboards were at a high standard, then this is not representative of the population of available boards. The boards that tend to represent the population would be the 19 to 20 out of > 24.

We might call the boards that represent the very best examples something like "Grade A" boards, which, in your case, might be the upper ~20% or so.

[MandrewDavis]

Got a steal on a Z150  with green alps and if I hadn't already tried some in pristine condition like the board Alienman sold me, there is no way I would hold them in the same regard. The broken Apple IIC looked awful, but the switches are in great shape. Also, maybe others can vouch for this, but as a result of the 5140 screen effectively shielding the keyboard from light and dust the browns seem to always be in very good condition.

Just saying, NOS blues are amazing ... if you can get the board to work

[alienman82]

removed.

[mike52787]

NOS salmons are also really nice, Those are the only salmon alps I have ever tried though. I haven't found many alps boards in bad condition in my travels outside of the few boards I ordered from taobao that were complete ****.

@chyros would you say the SKCM Creams I sent you were in acceptable condition? I would certainly say so. I used the same batch to build 2 boards, and they both feel great.

[chyros]

@Chyros: 5/5 "non-representative" seems like quite a run of bad luck, but on the other hand, 5 out of the total universe of Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards is admittedly a small sample. Even so, I am much happier typing on my crippled Alps boards than any Cherry mx board I have ever tried. Moreover, when I take an Alps board through my complete refurbishing process, it ends up performing quite well, with no chattering and little or no binding even when a large key is pressed on the extreme upper right corner.

Out of over two dozen AT101s (I lost count ages ago) I've had, no more than four, maybe five at a stretch were representative - and three of those were NIB .

hyperbole

Nope, none of that is an exaggeration. If you've tried the genuine article, used ones simply don't even come close, the difference is staggering.

@Chyros: Perhaps "representative" is a misnomer. Statistically, it would seem that if only 4 to 5 out of > 24 keyboards were at a high standard, then this is not representative of the population of available boards. The boards that tend to represent the population would be the 19 to 20 out of > 24.

We might call the boards that represent the very best examples something like "Grade A" boards, which, in your case, might be the upper ~20% or so.

By "representative" I mean "representative of what it would be like when it was new". Which, considering most of these boards are 20-30 years old, isn't easily achieved. The problem with NOT taking only the best (approx. NOS condition, switch-wise) keyboards as the standard is that it implies that those keyboards then somehow become "better than normal" which is just weird. It also belies the fact that there's quite a lot wrong with most Alps boards - it's kind of unfair to pretend Alps products were like that out of the factory, not to mention it encourages people to buy crappy-condition Alps boards, which simply doesn't give you the best experience .

[MandrewDavis]

Anybody seen the DC-3014 up on eBay? Buyer says it still has the OG plastic on the logo, but bidding starts at $240

[alienman82]

removed.