Alps Appreciation Thread

[MandrewDavis]

Interesting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them. Blue's are probably a fluke though since it was a replacement board and Alps likely ran out of Amber's for that batch.

I have seen a few A2S4000s with Amber alps, but didn't know any came with blues considering Apple never used them anywhere else in their lineup.

Here you go: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71488.0

Those also have top logos like the Packard Bell T9's do, so it makes sense that there late in the production run.

Just checked and my NOS blues don't have logos. The board is still not working, but the PCB date is late 1987.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

My DC-3014 and Acer KB101A are both from 1989 and yet don't have the logos on the top. One has white plates and one has grey, but they're both full-length.

[alh84001]

Bought 61 SKCM Amber's from Digi. Gonna make a Amber/Blue Alps Focus FK-3001 masterpiece!
The alpha's will be Amber while the rest will be Blue's.

That should make for an interesting board. I thought about making variable weight clicky alps board before I tried ambers, but there is quite a difference between character of blues and ambers that I decided against it, and just put a single amber switch in a space bar position.

for a second i thought you meant digikey   

Me too

Interesting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them.

Orange's come in IIc+, which bears model number A2S4500. Not that layout on it is different than in earlier models, and matches IIgs or m0116, only without numpad.

It's the one I'm missing to complete my apples+oranges collection, but it's much more rare than regular IIc plus and also much more expensive. There's always something to want in Alps land

[E3E]

Bought 61 SKCM Amber's from Digi. Gonna make a Amber/Blue Alps Focus FK-3001 masterpiece!
The alpha's will be Amber while the rest will be Blue's.

That should make for an interesting board. I thought about making variable weight clicky alps board before I tried ambers, but there is quite a difference between character of blues and ambers that I decided against it, and just put a single amber switch in a space bar position.

for a second i thought you meant digikey   

Me too

Interesting. Never knew Oranges could come with them. Just the very late ones then. So SKCM Amber, Orange, and Blue could come with the IIC since there was that one replacement keyboard that had them.

Orange's come in IIc+, which bears model number A2S4500. Not that layout on it is different than in earlier models, and matches IIgs or m0116, only without numpad.

It's the one I'm missing to complete my apples+oranges collection, but it's much more rare than regular IIc plus and also much more expensive. There's always something to want in Alps land

When it comes to doing something variable weighted with clicky switches, I'd suggest using different springs over entirely different switches unless you're using linears.

Also yeah, getting one of the IIc+ models just for their switches would be horribly inefficient. For the sake of collection though, I understand that.

[Mattr567]

It was more that I don't have enough Amber's to fill the whole board so Blue's are the next best thing, rather than trying to be variable weight.

Also E3E my switches are coming to you on monday Seems faster than usual. Ultrasonic ftw.

[alh84001]

I don't have enough Amber's to fill the whole board so Blue's are the next best thing

Aw yeah, let's get the Amber hype rolling! Again

[E3E]

It was more that I don't have enough Amber's to fill the whole board so Blue's are the next best thing, rather than trying to be variable weight.

Also E3E my switches are coming to you on monday Seems faster than usual. Ultrasonic ftw.

Looking forward to it! It's actually pretty amazing how well it works. I cleaned up a batch of switch tops that were sticky and had binding issues and they felt great after a cleaning in the ultra sonic cleaner.

[alienman82]

removed.

[MandrewDavis]

desoldered the Docutech.  Sending it off to someone to help make a converter 

Good guy Alienman, everyone thought you were committing blasphemy, but I believed in you. Can someone make me a converter lol

[Mattr567]

"Mod"


Also does anyone have any extra Focus caps laying around? A couple of my caps are really worn smooth.

[mike52787]

I have a set, its sorta yellowed though. Itll probably match your case.

[Mattr567]

I have a set, its sorta yellowed though. Itll probably match your case.

Not sure how cool you are with splitting up the set but I only need arrow keys, A, K, F, D, J and R. The rest of the key's have a normal amount of wear.

I would retrobright them like I did to mine

[mike52787]

I have a set, its sorta yellowed though. Itll probably match your case.

Not sure how cool you are with splitting up the set but I only need arrow keys, A, K, F, D, J and R. The rest of the key's have a normal amount of wear.

I would retrobright them like I did to mine

its fine with me, I already sold the numpad from that set. I dont need it anyway

[alh84001]

Also does anyone have any extra Focus caps laying around? A couple of my caps are really worn smooth.

There's a set on ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALPS-COMPLETE-FULL-SET-KEYCAPS-FOR-ALPS-STYLE-KEYBOARD-20-00-SHIPPING-/322327240302

[HPE1000]

So I have to decide, do I do the switch swap on the v60 or just a stem swap. ctm sent me a matias click switch and I put a green stem into it and removed the clicky leaf. It feels significantly different than the green stem in its original housing. I am not sure if it is just the difference in feel of simplified vs complicated mechanism, or if the actual housing is contributing. Stem swap into matias housing feels smoother (I havent cleaned up the original housing, so they will probably be comparable in smoothness after I clean it) it feels like the stem wobbles a bit more, it is more hollow and light sounding (as well as louder) when pressing the switch.

[Hypersphere]

@HPE1000: Which route you take depends upon where you are trying to go. What do you hope to achieve by swapping switches or switch parts on your V60? Are you starting with Matias Click switches in the V60? What Alps options do you have for the swappable parts in the Matias switches (slider, click/tactile leaf, return spring)?

[HPE1000]

@HPE1000: Which route you take depends upon where you are trying to go. What do you hope to achieve by swapping switches or switch parts on your V60? Are you starting with Matias Click switches in the V60? What Alps options do you have for the swappable parts in the Matias switches (slider, click/tactile leaf, return spring)?

I've got an entire set of green skcl alps and I was wanting to put them into the v60 without desoldering if possible,but I didn't realize the difference just swapping the spring and slider from the skcl into the matias click switch body would have. I'll have to test this difference a bit more to decide which I prefer.

The green sliders in the clear housing sure looks cool though

[Hypersphere]

Here is a table of Alps switch types showing actuation and/or bottom-out "weights" in grams from 3 different sources:

Code: [Select]

Switch Type                         Source
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                   A (Actuation)   B (Actuation)   C (Bottom-out)
               ---------------------------------------------
Amber SKCL                                         87.5 - 90
Amber SKCL Striped  55                             55
Black SKCM          69             65   
Blue  SKCL          55
Blue SKCM           70             65 - 72   
Brown SKCL                                         70
Brown SKCM                         75   
Cream SKCL          70                             70
Cream SKCM          70     
Cream SKCM Damped   69     
Green SKCL          50             50              50
Green SKCL Spacebar                                80
Green SKCL LED                                     67.5
Green SKCM          69     
Grey SKCL           88     
Orange SKCM                        60   
Pink/Salmon SKCM                   65 - 70   
White SKCM          69             65              65
White damped SKCM                  60              60
Yellow SKCL         59                             60=====
Sources:

A = DT Wiki on SKCL/SKCM Alps series. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series
B = Reddit Keyboard Stiffness Database.  https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/ripometer
C = DT thread, Alps Appreciation, E3E results. https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/alps-appreciation-t12915-1080.html
=====

@HPE1000: As you probably know, SKCL Green Alps are relatively light switches with actuation and bottom-out forces of about 50g compared to 60g actuation for Matias Click switches. So, the Green return spring should lighten the switch, but the friction from the click leaf in the Matias switch will contribute to the weight of the switch.

I have found that it is much trickier to put the Matias tops back on the switches than it is to put Alps tops back onto Alps switches. This is because of the rather delicate contact leaf in the Matias switch compared to the more robust switchplate mechanism in SKCM  or SKCL Alps switches.

Recently, I have been experimenting with swapping parts into SKCM White Alps switches. This was prompted by noticing that two of my Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI boards with SKCM white Alps switches had noticeably different sound and feel from each other.

It turns out that one of Omnikeys has white SKCM pine switches (with slits in the top housing), while the other has white SKCM bamboo switches (without slits). I have some Orange SKCM switches, which have the pine (with slits) housings. After trying various combinations of sliders, springs, click/tactile leaves, and top housings, I concluded that the major contributor to the different (and I think better) sound and feel of the pine switches arises from the housing.

However, of course you get a very different sensation by putting an Orange tactile leaf into a White switch, and the lighter Orange spring in a White switches produces a lighter switch, but keeping the click leaf and spring constant, the housing is what really makes the difference in sound and feel.

Unfortunately, you cannot put an SKCM top housing onto a Matias bottom switch -- all you can do is swap out the slider, spring, or click leaf. Even so, you can get a very different sound and feel in a Matias switch by playing around with these swappable components. For example, I made a "Matiblu" switch by putting the spring, slider, and click leaf from a Blue Alps into a Matias Click switch. The result is a quieter and lighter switch. It's not a Blue Alps, but I think it is nicer than a Matias Click.

When you do the Green/Matias hybrids in your V60, it would be great if you could post some before/after recordings.

[Mattr567]

I just realized I could use the Tandem keycaps on the FK-3001 as replacements. Alphas and the numpad. Better quality too. They need to be retrobrighted though

Oops.

[Mattr567]

So now I need to retrobright the Zenith, the Tandem caps, the Multistation caps the and the SGI spacebar (again). Lots of work to be done

Looks like winter came at a bad time. Good thing about California is that there's bound to be a sunny day no matter the season. Ran out of that creme stuff too.

[Hypersphere]

Pine vs. Bamboo SKCM White Alps Switches in Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI Keyboards -- S/N Correlation:

Recently, I acquired a Northgate Omnikey 101 (ANSI) in pristine condition. However, while testing it, I was surprised to find that the sound and feel of this keyboard were not as good as other keyboards of the same make and model. Upon closer inspection, I realized that the pristine keyboard had the newer "Bamboo" switches (without slits in the upper switch housing), whereas the boards with better sound and feel had the older "Pine" switches (with slits in the upper switch housing).

Here is an illustration of the two types of switches (from the DT wiki):


https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series

I've done some experiments swapping components from different type of switches into Bamboo white Alps. I have some Orange Alps switches that have the Pine tops. After trying various combinations of sliders, springs, tactile/click leaves, and top housings, I found that for a given spring and tactile/click leaf, the main contributor to the sound and feel of the switch was the top housing. It would be possible to swap the housings with those from Orange switches, but depending on price and availability, it might be cheaper and easier to start with a keyboard in good to excellent condition that already had Pine switches.

Here are some S/N data on Northgate Omnikey 101 US ANSI White Alps keyboards, with an indication of whether the white Alps switches are Pine (with slits) or Bamboo (without slits):

1081779 – Pine (Slits)
1128676 – Pine (Slits)
1132628 – Pine (Slits)
1155854 – Bamboo (No Slits)
1160507 – Bamboo (No Slits)

The lower S/N numbers (presumably with an earlier date of manufacture) have the more desirable Pine switches. It appears that the transition occurred somewhere between 1132628 and 1155854, but certainly keyboards with serial numbers below 1132628 should have Pine switches.

[mike52787]

I can help provide information for this. My omnikey 101 (serial number 1136529) came with Pine SKCM whites.

[Hypersphere]

@mike52787: Thanks for the additional datum!

This information should be helpful to those buying this particular make and model keyboard who would like to ensure that it has the Pine variety of SKCM white Alps switches.

It is usually easier to read serial numbers in eBay pics than to see the presence or absence of slits in the switch housings!

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight

Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.

[E3E]

Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight

Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.

Could've sent those to me too! I've got a pretty good indoor setup.

[Mattr567]

Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight

Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.

Could've sent those to me too! I've got a pretty good indoor setup.

Lol. Just started too late in the day. I'll do it sometime this week or next week.

How are the switches going?

[mike52787]

Ive gotta send some things to e3e to have them retrobrited soon. You guys have any suggestions for what switches to populate one of those wyse green alps terminal boards with? I got it a few months back from wingpad and i havent touched it because I didnt have the time. I was thinking of putting in browns salmons or oranges, I already have enough SKCM cream boards

[alh84001]

Pine vs. Bamboo SKCM White Alps Switches in Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI Keyboards -- S/N Correlation:

Here are some S/N data on Northgate Omnikey 101 US ANSI White Alps keyboards, with an indication of whether the white Alps switches are Pine (with slits) or Bamboo (without slits):

1081779 – Pine (Slits)
1128676 – Pine (Slits)
1132628 – Pine (Slits)
1155854 – Bamboo (No Slits)
1160507 – Bamboo (No Slits)

The lower S/N numbers (presumably with an earlier date of manufacture) have the more desirable Pine switches. It appears that the transition occurred somewhere between 1132628 and 1155854, but certainly keyboards with serial numbers below 1132628 should have Pine switches.

You can add two more S/Ns, although they are somewhat low:
1004254 - Pine
1037413 - Pine


And unrelated to this, but does anyone have a 5140 PCB and plastic frame that they don't need? I'd like to put some lesser switches and keycaps in to make the machine usable again.

[alienman82]

removed.

[chyros]

Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight

Lol, I'm guessing that makes it impossible to retrobright anything in the UK xD .

[Hypersphere]

One of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).

Therefore, I've  decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).

Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.

However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:



I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).

The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.

This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.

I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.

[menuhin]

Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight

Lol, I'm guessing that makes it impossible to retrobright anything in the UK xD .

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/1949533/girl-21-admits-to-spending-35000-on-fake-tan-which-she-applies-for-four-and-a-half-hours-every-day/
Or wait in front of the sun studio and ask someone to bring in that wrapped keyboard. By the way, don't know if UV A or UV B or UV C etc, or all of them would work.

[menuhin]

One of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).

Therefore, I've  decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).

Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.

However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:

(Attachment Link)

I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).

The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.

This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.

I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.

I am also curious to know if the difference in structure between the white pine and white bamboo is really only in the top housings, e.g. the bottom housings, switch plates etc are identical in structure, regardless of materials used.

It's a very simple yet sound experiment, reminds me of Archimedes and Galileo, I like it! 
(Not a physics or mechanics person)

[alienman82]

removed.

[menuhin]

just bought an AEK I and M0116 as well as a b stock VEA.  gonna get plates and we're good

Is it expensive and time consuming to do hot-swappable mod?
I've seen it's relatively easy to perform a hot-swap mod for Cherry MX, compared to the thousand-times-drilling-and-rewiring session of E3E.
For example, this one on Cherry PCB, no solder, no drilling needed, possibly quicker than soldering the switches on:

Or is it just that the best fitting hot-sockets for Alps switches have not been found yet?

[E3E]

Tried to retrobright the Zenith and the Tandem caps but I ran out of daylight

Still had an effect at least, but have to redo it all.

Could've sent those to me too! I've got a pretty good indoor setup.

Lol. Just started too late in the day. I'll do it sometime this week or next week.

How are the switches going?

Haven't gotten to them just yet! Trying to get some things out of the way, but I should have them all cleaned up soon for ya.

[Mattr567]

Got my SKCM Amber's today, have a new appreciation for them. They seem less bumpy and cleaner feeling than the one in my switch tester I got from E3E a while ago.

Second times a charm?

Haven't gotten to them just yet! Trying to get some things out of the way, but I should have them all cleaned up soon for ya.

Cool.

[drevyek]

More

One of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).

Therefore, I've  decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).

Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.

However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:

(Attachment Link)

I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).

The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.

This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.

I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.

So what do they look like when lubed? or is the lube only on the bottom of the slider, near the contact points of the leaf springs (ie, where the little black lube squares are on the slider)

If there really any difference between pine and bamboo tops other than the slits? The slits just serve to provide a bit of padding on the return stroke, no, so you'd expect the difference to be just in the return stroke.

Or is the opening any different? I think that Matias case tops have an expanded opening, but can't confirm.

[Fictiouz]

More

One of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).

Therefore, I've  decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).

Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.

However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:

(Attachment Link)

I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).

The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.

This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.

I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.

So what do they look like when lubed? or is the lube only on the bottom of the slider, near the contact points of the leaf springs (ie, where the little black lube squares are on the slider)

If there really any difference between pine and bamboo tops other than the slits? The slits just serve to provide a bit of padding on the return stroke, no, so you'd expect the difference to be just in the return stroke.

Or is the opening any different? I think that Matias case tops have an expanded opening, but can't confirm.

Good question. I would love to know more as well.

[MandrewDavis]

Got my SKCM Amber's today, have a new appreciation for them. They seem less bumpy and cleaner feeling than the one in my switch tester I got from E3E a while ago.
Second times a charm?

More

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Amber alps are great, not at all a bad thing but I find they are much more tactile than they are crisp. Really interested in seeing how those keycaps turn out after retro-brighting them. 

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

Got my SKCM Amber's today, have a new appreciation for them. They seem less bumpy and cleaner feeling than the one in my switch tester I got from E3E a while ago.

Second times a charm?

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Haven't gotten to them just yet! Trying to get some things out of the way, but I should have them all cleaned up soon for ya.

Cool.

Wrapping your items to be retrobrighted in saran wrap isn't a good idea, man. I've read a lot of people who mention that causing streaking pretty easily. If the creme dries at all on the plastic, it tends to cause bleaching.

[Mattr567]

Wrapping your items to be retrobrighted in saran wrap isn't a good idea, man. I've read a lot of people who mention that causing streaking pretty easily. If the creme dries at all on the plastic, it tends to cause bleaching.

Interesting. That's how i've always done it.

I have seen some minor streaking in the past but it seems to fade within a few weeks. Never seen any bleaching. Every 30min or so ill go back out and smear the cream around so it doesn't dry.

[chyros]

One of my newest and most pristine Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI SKCM White Alps keyboards doesn't sound and feel quite as good as my older Omni 101s. The only difference in construction that I can find is that the newer board has "bamboo" (no slits) switches, whereas the older boards have "pine" switches (with slits in the top housings).

Therefore, I've  decided to mod the bamboo switches by replacing at least the top housings with pine housings from an Orange Alps board. I am going to keep the White click leaves, but I am undecided about the other swappable components (slider and return spring).

Sliders from Orange Alps are factory-lubricated, but because the switches are old, I decided to give them a thorough cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner, which of course removes the lubricant. After doing this and looking for similarities and differences among different types of sliders that I have at hand (Blue Alps, Orange Alps, White Alps, and Matias-Click), I noticed a subjective difference in slipperiness among the sliders. By pressing a finder against the slider and pulling my finger across it, I felt more friction with the Orange and Blue sliders than with the White and Matias sliders.

However, I wanted to get some quantitative indicator of slipperiness, so I rigged up a simple experiment to measure the coefficient of static friction. This consisted of a smooth plastic ruler as an inclined plane and a second ruler clamped perpendicular to the desk. I placed the slider at a fixed spot on the plastic ruler and slowly tilted the ruler until the slider slid down the ruler. I measured the distance on the vertical ruler corresponding to when the slider broke free of friction and slid down the incline. Thus knowing two sides of a right triangle, I could calculate the angle of tilt and its tangent, which is the coefficient of static friction. I did this 5 times for each slider, calculated the mean and standard error of the friction coefficients, and plotted the results:

(Attachment Link)

I also ran one-way ANOVA and the Tukey post-hoc test to find statistically significant (p < 0.05) differences. In the above chart, if two values are significantly different from each other, they have different small letters above the bar. A lower mean value corresponds to a lower coefficient of static friction (more slippery).

The results show that Blue and Orange sliders do not differ significantly in static friction. White sliders are more slippery than either Blue or Orange, and Matias-Click sliders are the most slippery.

This was a very crude experiment and YMMV, but it showed me that my subjective qualitative impressions were validated by this rough quantitative measurement.

I am not quite sure how to interpret the results, but they might provide an explanation for why Blue and Orange Alps switches were apparently factory-lubricated.

Hmmm, wouldn't this test negatively favour lubricated materials?

[Mattr567]

Mission report: Successful!

Zenith:



Multistation Caps:



The Tandem caps are almost there, they have a Salmon/Pink shade to them. Wayy better than at the start but not quite. Another day in the sun should do it.
Before:

Current: (next to Focus cap)

[alienman82]

removed.

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Yes, indeed, the test I ran would "negatively favor" lubricated sliders. I should have made it clearer that I thoroughly removed the lubricant from the sliders before running the test.

One of my goals has been to create a "poor man's Blue Alps board". I think I may have come quite close this time and possibly beyond. I reassembled my Omni 101 white Alps board by swapping out the switch housings, sliders, and springs from Orange Alps switches. I also lubed the slider guider rails and slider-click leaf interface with Superlube 51010 oil. The result is something that sounds and feels very much like a Blue Alps board and perhaps even better  -- it is exquisite in the Northgate chassis.

[Mattr567]

so would that enter key on the zenith be known as slim ass?

Chyros coined it as medium ass. Slim ass would be those found on the M0116, Z-150, NeXT non adb or the Tandem for instance. Some people also call those the 'L shaped' enter.