Alps Appreciation Thread

[alienman82]

removed.

[MandrewDavis]

The China laser cutting services can do alu for a good price, but they don't have 1.2mm

Also, that is a damn good price you have on those OG dye-subs

boycott china

YUGE boycott, but just sayin' Lasergist is Greek based.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

After using my Packard Bell T9102 again I have come to the conclusion that SKCM Blue is better than Amber. They have a balance and bassyness that cannot be competed with HOWEVER SKCM Amber still deserves a place on the mantle.

Also reminds me of why I love my Packard. It sits wayy flatter on the desk than any of my other keyboards, it's quite refreshing. That craigslist guy had no idea what he had, only a old computer from a company that no longer exists. He was sitting on gold

I nominate the Packard Bell T9102 to be one of the best keyboards ever made

[Hypersphere]

Which method(s) do people here use to hold the spring in place when reassembling Alps switches with the bottom switch housings and switchplates already soldered to the keyboard? The three methods I know about are the following:

A. Dab of grease on the spring nub on the slider.

B. Placing the upright spring on the bottom of the switch housing and carefully lowering the top housing with slider and leaf onto the bottom of the switch.

C. Magnet.

I have been using method (A) above, but I am concerned that the grease might eventually gum up the works.

I've seen method (B) exhibited by Chyros in one of his videos. I tried this method , but I found it too fiddly and nerve-wracking.

The magnet methods looks the most appealing. I should have tried this long ago, but I didn't have quite the right magnet readily available.

[chyros]

1) put in spring
2) put on slider
3) slide over housing

Doddle.

[Hypersphere]

1) put in spring
2) put on slider
3) slide over housing

Doddle.

When do you put in the click/tactile leaf for clicky or tactile Alps switches?

[Mattr567]

I use my own version similar to Chyros's method and it works great.

A. Put in tactile leaf
B. Put in spring on the little nub
C. Put in the slider so it's sitting on the spring
D Put on top housing on halfway, align the slider in the top housing, and make sure the leaf is lined up so you don't crush it, then put it on.

The golden tool is to use tooth picks, you can use it to align the spring and slider while also using it to correct the position of the leaf if it moved out of place a bit. I find no need to use cocktail sticks like Chyros's method. I've reassembled hundreds of switches this way. Gotten quite quick at it too.

[Hypersphere]

@Mattr567: Thanks for the tips. I've been using a variant of Chyros' method this afternoon, and it is working reasonably well. It is not quite as convenient for me as the "dab of grease" method, but it keeps grease out of the switch.

For disassembly of Alps switches, I use the "Alps Trident" tool from MrBishop -- it works beautifully. To retrieve springs and click/tactile leaves, I use a magnet.

Regarding your Packard Bell T9102, perhaps you should create a separate thread dedicated to this keyboard with pics and audio clips.

It would be nice to think of some objective measures whereby we could compare the sound of various switch/keyboard combinations. For example, using standardized recording conditions, identical typing samples, and software such as Audacity we might compare audio spectra -- plots of frequency vs. dB. This might give us a way to quantify our subjective impressions of the sounds.

[Mattr567]

@Mattr567: Thanks for the tips. I've been using a variant of Chyros' method this afternoon, and it is working reasonably well. It is not quite as convenient for me as the "dab of grease" method, but it keeps grease out of the switch.

For disassembly of Alps switches, I use the "Alps Trident" tool from MrBishop -- it works beautifully. To retrieve springs and click/tactile leaves, I use a magnet.

Regarding your Packard Bell T9102, perhaps you should create a separate thread dedicated to this keyboard with pics and audio clips.

It would be nice to think of some objective measures whereby we could compare the sound of various switch/keyboard combinations. For example, using standardized recording conditions, identical typing samples, and software such as Audacity we might compare audio spectra -- plots of frequency vs. dB. This might give us a way to quantify our subjective impressions of the sounds.

You'll get faster. I would never put in grease for such a thing

Packard thread coming right up!

[chyros]

1) put in spring
2) put on slider
3) slide over housing

Doddle.

When do you put in the click/tactile leaf for clicky or tactile Alps switches?

Before the spring. When you put the slider on the spring, the leaf gets pulled inward enough that you can slide the housing over it.

I find this goes really quickly for me. Besides, you should try this with Montereys or some Alps clones, you'd go barking mad xD .

[Mattr567]

Aww shucks, didn't realize until now that I was nominated for best discovery for the DT Awards 2016. Feel a bit special

[Hypersphere]

Okay, I've cobbled together a technique based on the various recommendations I've received from Alps aficionados on GH and DT. It is grease-free and works fairly well. I got my Blue Alps board (Leading Edge DC-2014) put back together yesterday with freshly cleaned switches and I am typing on it now. Thanks, guys!

[Mattr567]

Looks like a good deal to me

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351918547561

[alh84001]

It'll be interesting to see where it ends up. And they were refurbished in 2002? Man, that's a long time.

[Norman_the_Owl]

Looks like a good deal to me

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351918547561

Bob Tibbets has been in the game a long time it turns out.

Hardly surprising, given that his website looks like something from the wayback machine.

[E3E]

After using my Packard Bell T9102 again I have come to the conclusion that SKCM Blue is better than Amber. They have a balance and bassyness that cannot be competed with HOWEVER SKCM Amber still deserves a place on the mantle.

Also reminds me of why I love my Packard. It sits wayy flatter on the desk than any of my other keyboards, it's quite refreshing. That craigslist guy had no idea what he had, only a old computer from a company that no longer exists. He was sitting on gold

I nominate the Packard Bell T9102 to be one of the best keyboards ever made

 

 

[Hypersphere]

Aww shucks, didn't realize until now that I was nominated for best discovery for the DT Awards 2016. Feel a bit special

[mseaworthy]

Just posting this here for Alps lovers before I sell it...my Happy Alps. Teensy and TMK offer programability. The boards finding time in my rotation are topre and Matias. I know...blasphemous. Hater dog-piling gains momentum when I disclose I sacrificed an M0116 and an AEK to get the right cap set.

HHKB-ish layout and functionality via the function key right of the spacebar (down arrow key), and the diamond cursor is highlighted in a lighter shade of blue. I like color and symmetry.

Currently I have the backspace programmed same as HHKB (above enter), and the key above it functions are the pipe \.

Matias Quiet Click keys, custom cut steel plate, PCB substrate is made with toner transfer. Caps died with Dylon.

Case is quarter sawn white oak with the USB header stress relieved against the wood.

[alh84001]

 

[Hypersphere]

@mseaworthy: I like your custom board! Given the position of your Fn key, do you use your thumb to activate it?

Although I like Alps (and Matias) along with IBM Model F boards in my rotation, at present, most of the time I use my HHKB Pro 2, and I like the Fn to the right of the Right Shift key. However, on "standard layout" keyboards, I use the right-most key on the bottom row (usually RCtrl) as Fn. In these positions, I find it most convenient to activate Fn with the pinky.

Some would say that Topre is boring. Perhaps so, but it does provide the catastrophic collapse type of tactility that I like, yet it is subtle enough not to call undue attention to itself, enabling me to get my work done without being distracted by the keyboard.

Good luck with the sale! Someone is going to get a very handsome keyboard.

[mseaworthy]

@mseaworthy: I like your custom board! Given the position of your Fn key, do you use your thumb to activate it?

@Hypersphere
Thanks for the kind words.

I use right thumb, right pointer finger on this board most of the time. However, I have also mapped ESC to function as Fn when held. It's nice to have the flexibility for one-handed, left-handed use.

[drevyek]

Love the board! When I had my M0116 in commission, I had my fn keys on either side of the spacebar. The super short space looks great IMO. Good luck with the sale!

What sort of PCB is that, in such a strange layout?

[mseaworthy]

Thanks.

@ the PCB is a sheet of copper with the traces applied through thermal transfer

[duynguyenle]

Swapped what SKCM Amber's I had into the Focus. The entire Alpha section and the arrow key's. The rest remain SKCM White until I can source the remaining Amber's I need

The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now

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That looks awesome, did you harvest them from an Apple IIc?

[Mattr567]

Swapped what SKCM Amber's I had into the Focus. The entire Alpha section and the arrow key's. The rest remain SKCM White until I can source the remaining Amber's I need

The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now

Show Image

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That looks awesome, did you harvest them from an Apple IIc?

Yea. And still looking for more Amber's to fill the rest of the board :rolleyes:

[duynguyenle]

Swapped what SKCM Amber's I had into the Focus. The entire Alpha section and the arrow key's. The rest remain SKCM White until I can source the remaining Amber's I need

The FK-3001 seems to suit them well. A unique switch for a unique keyboard. Initial impressions of SKCM Amber in a full board is good. It's an SKCM Blue with a sharper tactility, a more subtle click, and less bassyness. The Blue's are definitely a more well rounded switch however. I do love the sharpness, the way it quickly snaps down especially on bigger keys like the big ass enter. Makes as a great addition for my collection. I've been wanting to use the FK-3001 for its looks but I haven't had reason to until now

That looks awesome, did you harvest them from an Apple IIc?

Yea. And still looking for more Amber's to fill the rest of the board

I guess I should join the crowd:



 

[romevi]

First Alps board.



A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).

Here is the board with only AEK caps:

More

[alh84001]

apple keycap and orange switches in an interesting layout - nice first board

is it a custom plate and handwired? you may want to remove nylon protecting the plate and get it painted beware of powdercoating as after it you may need to file the switch holes depending on how thick paint layer ends up to be

[duynguyenle]

apple keycap and orange switches in an interesting layout - nice first board

is it a custom plate and handwired? you may want to remove nylon protecting the plate and get it painted beware of powdercoating as after it you may need to file the switch holes depending on how thick paint layer ends up to be

I believe that is a clueboard PCB

First Alps board.

Show Image

A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).

Here is the board with only AEK caps:

More

Show Image

You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??

In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this 

[romevi]

First Alps board.

Show Image

A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).

Here is the board with only AEK caps:

More

Show Image

You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??

In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this 

No, the older one: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aluminum-case-for-leopold-fc660m?mode=guest_open

Also, yeah, it was a pain. It took me months of deciding which layout to use, and which caps maker (Signature Plastics/Tai-Hao or original Alps caps). Then someone sold me an M0116 with orange switches and that solved my problems: was able to make my desired layout!

[duynguyenle]

First Alps board.

Show Image

A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).

Here is the board with only AEK caps:

More

Show Image

You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??

In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this 

No, the older one: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aluminum-case-for-leopold-fc660m?mode=guest_open

Also, yeah, it was a pain. It took me months of deciding which layout to use, and which caps maker (Signature Plastics/Tai-Hao or original Alps caps). Then someone sold me an M0116 with orange switches and that solved my problems: was able to make my desired layout!

Very nice! Someone on Reddit figured out that the Varmilo 68% case and bottom row spacing works with the Apple AEK bottom row, this is probably what I will build for myself soon:

[MandrewDavis]

First Alps board.

Show Image

A mix of AEK II and M0116 caps.
I've still got to get a case (blue Massdrop aluminum), program the keys, and retr0bright the space bar. There are also two 1.25u keys on the bottom I have to replace (you can see some gaps next to a couple of the bottom 1u keys).

Here is the board with only AEK caps:

More

Show Image

You are getting the Aluminium Clueboard Case? I thought that case has an integrated plate and only supports MX switches??

In anycase, nice job with the caps, it's pretty tricky to get Alps caps to fit modern layouts like this 

No, the older one: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aluminum-case-for-leopold-fc660m?mode=guest_open

Also, yeah, it was a pain. It took me months of deciding which layout to use, and which caps maker (Signature Plastics/Tai-Hao or original Alps caps). Then someone sold me an M0116 with orange switches and that solved my problems: was able to make my desired layout!

Very nice! Someone on Reddit figured out that the Varmilo 68% case and bottom row spacing works with the Apple AEK bottom row, this is probably what I will build for myself soon:

Show Image

I really wanted to do a clueboard, but I think that VA68 project is going to be home of my orange alps.

[alienman82]

removed.

[romevi]

Also, big thanks to zorb. I had planned on that layout initially, but then realized some caps couldn't work with AEK II only, so for months resorted to using Tai-Hao or SP caps, which I didn't prefer for this board. Then zorb showed off his board and lent me his plate layout, so I was able to design the board I initially wanted.

[Mattr567]

Tried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch

Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

agreed.  but i think it's better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

* E3E throws shade on both of you

[alh84001]

Yep, it's a great switch.

Before I first tried it, I was wondering what all the ruckus was about, but now I can type on a model M, think it's nice, than go type on a model F, and when I return back to model M it just feels flat. There are are relatively cheap options in the US for getting a model F, and everyone should take advantage of it.

[Mattr567]

Model F is forbidden fruit in a way. The F122 and 4704's are amazing but super expensive all said and done, and the cheaper F XT/AT have bizarro unusable layout's. Unless the power of Alps brought me one in trading

I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.

[mike52787]

Model F is forbidden fruit in a way. The F122 and 4704's are amazing but super expensive all said and done, and the cheaper F XT/AT have bizarro unusable layout's. Unless the power of Alps brought me one in trading

I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.

You should have bought a MF kit then! all the advantages of a model m and all the keyfeel advantages of a model f in usable layouts? sign me the **** up!

[Elrick]

Tried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch

Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.

Yeah, that is why Ellipse's Model-F Keyboards will be much sought after when he's finished production and sold them all off, to everyone that loves this type of switch.

Suspect some will sell these on Flebay for maximum profits  .

[Mattr567]

Model F is forbidden fruit in a way. The F122 and 4704's are amazing but super expensive all said and done, and the cheaper F XT/AT have bizarro unusable layout's. Unless the power of Alps brought me one in trading

I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.

You should have bought a MF kit then! all the advantages of a model m and all the keyfeel advantages of a model f in usable layouts? sign me the **** up!

What's that?

Tried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch

Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.

Yeah, that is why Ellipse's Model-F Keyboards will be much sought after when he's finished production and sold them all off, to everyone that loves this type of switch.

Suspect some will sell these on Flebay for maximum profits  .

Yea

Thinking about it, someone should make Model F reproduction parts that retrofit into Model M's. Saves money too.

[alh84001]

ATs are not that cheap, at least not any more. And XT layout may be unorthodox, but it doesn't take much to get used to it.

(but, let's not dwell on BS too much here, because I sense E3E is readying the pitchforks )

[mike52787]

Model F is forbidden fruit in a way. The F122 and 4704's are amazing but super expensive all said and done, and the cheaper F XT/AT have bizarro unusable layout's. Unless the power of Alps brought me one in trading

I do still enjoy the Model M, just bought one very recently as I traded my old one a couple month's ago. But the pingy slap the Model F has versus the Model M's thunk is really something.

You should have bought a MF kit then! all the advantages of a model m and all the keyfeel advantages of a model f in usable layouts? sign me the **** up!

What's that?

https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/model-mf-drop-in-kit-for-converting-the-ibm-model-m-into-an-f-t15091.html?sid=07a15eca05933f52a3f1bad16ebdc28c
damn shame you missed it, probably a a once in a lifetime GB. and it was only about $225 all said and done. all you would need is a model m for donor case and keycaps.

[alh84001]

What's that?

...

Thinking about it, someone should make Model F reproduction parts that retrofit into Model M's. Saves money too.

Oh my. That's exactly that. Kind of. It uses custom PCB, plates and controller, with switches from real model Fs, and it's all intended to be put in M/SSK case and used with its keycaps.

If I were you, I'd run over to DT, and PM lot_lizard immediately to squeeze you in, even though GB ended a week ago. If you need someone to vouch for you, I bet all of us here would do it.

Edit: on a positive note, I think that lot_lizard will share all the design files ones everything is over, so everyone could order a PCB and controller from one of the online PCB services, and make the plates in a local metal shop. The final price would probably be quite bigger in the end, especially when you factor in a donor model F as well.

[Mattr567]

That would be cool, but I can't afford to spend that on keyboards right now anyway Looking on ebay Model F 122's have gone as low as $100, so ill hold out for one, eventually. I still have a Model M coming I need to clean up.

Damn cool GB though.

[mike52787]

haha I guess its all perspective, I thought that that was a great price for such a kit.

Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

haha I guess its all perspective, I thought that that was a great price for such a kit.

Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.

Yea it's still a good deal, just not the right time for me

Still have a awesome Model M coming to me. Green alpha sublegends + industrial case?!