Alps Appreciation Thread

[ShawnMeg]

Oh, yes, yes. I was talking about SKCM Green because it does have a simple metal leaf as opposed to the two part plastic plate/leaf spring assembly that SKCM Brown has. Usually when I hear of someone click modding something, I think that they mean snipping the legs off of a tactile leaf to make it clicky.

Swapping in click leaves from clicky switches should work just fine. The browns don't have a flat surface like most other switch tops do for the click leaf to slap against, but I don't see that really changing anything. 
 
If you want to get an SKCM Blue feel out of SKCM Brown, I'd suggest just using blue click leaves. If you're trying to look for something similar but without having to use blue leaves, then I'd say use SKCM White leaves.

I soldered in SKCM White switches on a Xerox 6085 that I received in parts from MAR82 to send to Wingpad for testing, and I was very surprised at how nice it felt. It could be the chassis, but I had to pull out a vintage SKCM Blue board to compare because I was surprised at how nice the switches felt.

The two ALPs tactile boards that I click modded, rather than snipping the leaves, I simply used a flat head screwdriver to flatten the legs.  Both of the boards have a subtle, quiet click.  This mod is potentially reversible.  The only other SKCM ALPs that I have to compare were SKCM Whites from a previously owned Northgate Omnikey.  The click was certainly louder.  I also had a board with simplified ALPs clones (alps.tw Type OA2), and the click on these were louder as well.

I'm currently using an AEK 2 with Salmons that I left stock and particularly enjoy.

[Hypersphere]

Oh, yes, yes. I was talking about SKCM Green because it does have a simple metal leaf as opposed to the two part plastic plate/leaf spring assembly that SKCM Brown has. Usually when I hear of someone click modding something, I think that they mean snipping the legs off of a tactile leaf to make it clicky.

Swapping in click leaves from clicky switches should work just fine. The browns don't have a flat surface like most other switch tops do for the click leaf to slap against, but I don't see that really changing anything. 
 
If you want to get an SKCM Blue feel out of SKCM Brown, I'd suggest just using blue click leaves. If you're trying to look for something similar but without having to use blue leaves, then I'd say use SKCM White leaves.

I soldered in SKCM White switches on a Xerox 6085 that I received in parts from MAR82 to send to Wingpad for testing, and I was very surprised at how nice it felt. It could be the chassis, but I had to pull out a vintage SKCM Blue board to compare because I was surprised at how nice the switches felt.

The two ALPs tactile boards that I click modded, rather than snipping the leaves, I simply used a flat head screwdriver to flatten the legs.  Both of the boards have a subtle, quiet click.  This mod is potentially reversible.  The only other SKCM ALPs that I have to compare were SKCM Whites from a previously owned Northgate Omnikey.  The click was certainly louder.  I also had a board with simplified ALPs clones (alps.tw Type OA2), and the click on these were louder as well.

I'm currently using an AEK 2 with Salmons that I left stock and particularly enjoy.

(Attachment Link)

Thanks. Flattening the legs on a tactile leaf might not be reversible owing to metal fatigue.

Flatteing or clipping legs will not work with SKCM Brown Alps, which do not have a tactile leaf as such. Instead, they have a tactile assembly that is a modified switchplate as shown in the DT wiki:

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_Brown

[Mattr567]

Finished. Thread to come.
Hint:

[E3E]

Finished. Thread to come.
Hint:

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Personally, I'd think it'd be best to use the WoB caps for the mods and keep the Canon caps to alpha numerical keys for a more well-rounded look. It's a shame there's no full spherical ANSI sets for Alps. I hope to change this by sculpting some mods, though they're going to be in the profile of the PBT C Itoh caps first.

These caps don't look as deeply scooped as the Multistation caps. Please do a close comparison yourself to tell me if this is true or not, but the Multistation caps have an almost diamond-like scoop that you can feel and see, especially on the homing keys.

I'm not seeing that with these.

[Mattr567]

Finished. Thread to come.
Hint:

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Personally, I'd think it'd be best to use the WoB caps for the mods and keep the Canon caps to alpha numerical keys for a more well-rounded look. It's a shame there's no full spherical ANSI sets for Alps. I hope to change this by sculpting some mods, though they're going to be in the profile of the PBT C Itoh caps first.

These caps don't look as deeply scooped as the Multistation caps. Please do a close comparison yourself to tell me if this is true or not, but the Multistation caps have an almost diamond-like scoop that you can feel and see, especially on the homing keys.

I'm not seeing that with these.

I know what you mean, but imo I would like to use as many spherical caps as possible. Plus it cuts down on the profiles clashing.

Take a look at my thread, I made a comparison there. It's definitely not the same profile. The homing keys on these aren't any different than the other caps, no extra scooping or bar/nubs. Comparing them I would have to agree with you. The Canon caps still have some scoop but not as much as the Multistation caps.

Here is a profile comparison. The Canon caps are more steeply angled like I mentioned earlier.
Bottom row (Z etc)

Middle row (A etc)

Top row (tilde etc)

[E3E]

Finished. Thread to come.
Hint:

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Personally, I'd think it'd be best to use the WoB caps for the mods and keep the Canon caps to alpha numerical keys for a more well-rounded look. It's a shame there's no full spherical ANSI sets for Alps. I hope to change this by sculpting some mods, though they're going to be in the profile of the PBT C Itoh caps first.

These caps don't look as deeply scooped as the Multistation caps. Please do a close comparison yourself to tell me if this is true or not, but the Multistation caps have an almost diamond-like scoop that you can feel and see, especially on the homing keys.

I'm not seeing that with these.

I know what you mean, but imo I would like to use as many spherical caps as possible. Plus it cuts down on the profiles clashing.

Take a look at my thread, I made a comparison there. It's definitely not the same profile. The homing keys on these aren't any different than the other caps, no extra scooping or bar/nubs. Comparing them I would have to agree with you. The Canon caps still have some scoop but not as much as the Multistation caps.

Here is a profile comparison. The Canon caps are more steeply angled like I mentioned earlier.
Bottom row (Z etc)

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Middle row (A etc)

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Top row (tilde etc)

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It's interesting that there were so many different cap profiles for Alps, I mean in sphericals alone, or spherical-like, we have the Multistation, Canon, CIE/C.Itoh, ICL One Per Desk, Yamaha  MSX, Bondwell, and Panasonic Electronic Typing Station caps as far as I know, with many of them being completely different profiles.

The ICL caps are hi pro but rather flat with incredibly shallow scooping. The Bondwell caps are definitely the same profile as the Panasonic's, which is uniform and practically flat.

The Yamaha MSX computers have so many variations, even some in Arabic and Cyrillic. I have no idea if they're standard in terms of sculpted profile among all of the variations or not. The Arabic one on eBay lately reminded me of the ICL caps. Hi pro but flat looking.

Then of course we have the Multistation. Sculpted alphanum grid and mods, but everything else is uniform. Unique profile. Deeply scooped. Even deeper homing keys.

Then the Canon typewriter caps. Sculpted hi pro with a unique profile, no homing scoops, and shallower scooping than the Multistation's caps.

The CIE Terminals/C.Itoh sphericals seem to be the only PBT set out there, with all others being ABS doubleshots. Sculpted hi pro, but also with a unique profile that has a less swept back top row than other hi pro caps. Deep dish homing keys. Scooping is not as deep as the multistation, but not as shallow as the ICL One Per Desk caps.

If I had to describe it, the C.Itoh scooping is gentle, but pleasant. The homing scoops are as deep as the Multistation's normal scooping, which is to say that the Multistations are crazy scooped!

   • I'd say the C.Itoh caps go best with SKCM Browns and Greens, but they also felt nice on the SKCL Striped Ambers I played with. Overall, PBT is best with tactile switches from my experience
   • The Hi Pro ABS caps go really well with SKCM Ambers and I'd say they'd also go well with linears too. I'd say cylindrical caps overall go better on your ordinary clicky switches like SKCM Blue and White.

I feel like the deeper scooping really focuses the feel of the switch onto your finger tips as well, which is great for some switches.

I also want to say that I did not like the ICL One Per Desk caps much in terms of feel. They look great, but high profile key caps without much of a scoop at all feel pretty... Underwhelming.

[PollandAkuma]

Does changing springs in Blue alps change the weight of it? Or does the force to get the click stay the same :/

[E3E]

Does changing springs in Blue alps change the weight of it? Or does the force to get the click stay the same :/

Yep, the only switches that aren't very affected by lighter springs are SKCM Brown and Green. Amber has a biting tactility, but I've never tested with those.

Of course the click leaf does add about 10g weight. The springs in SKCM Blue I measured at 55g to bottom out but 65g with the leaf.

[Mattr567]

It's interesting that there were so many different cap profiles for Alps, I mean in sphericals alone, or spherical-like, we have the Multistation, Canon, CIE/C.Itoh, ICL One Per Desk, Yamaha  MSX, Bondwell, and Panasonic Electronic Typing Station caps as far as I know, with many of them being completely different profiles.

The ICL caps are hi pro but rather flat with incredibly shallow scooping. The Bondwell caps are definitely the same profile as the Panasonic's, which is uniform and practically flat.

The Yamaha MSX computers have so many variations, even some in Arabic and Cyrillic. I have no idea if they're standard in terms of sculpted profile among all of the variations or not. The Arabic one on eBay lately reminded me of the ICL caps. Hi pro but flat looking.

Then of course we have the Multistation. Sculpted alphanum grid and mods, but everything else is uniform. Unique profile. Deeply scooped. Even deeper homing keys.

Then the Canon typewriter caps. Sculpted hi pro with a unique profile, no homing scoops, and shallower scooping than the Multistation's caps.

The CIE Terminals/C.Itoh sphericals seem to be the only PBT set out there, with all others being ABS doubleshots. Sculpted hi pro, but also with a unique profile that has a less swept back top row than other hi pro caps. Deep dish homing keys. Scooping is not as deep as the multistation, but not as shallow as the ICL One Per Desk caps.

If I had to describe it, the C.Itoh scooping is gentle, but pleasant. The homing scoops are as deep as the Multistation's normal scooping, which is to say that the Multistations are crazy scooped!

   • I'd say the C.Itoh caps go best with SKCM Browns and Greens, but they also felt nice on the SKCL Striped Ambers I played with. Overall, PBT is best with tactile switches from my experience
   • The Hi Pro ABS caps go really well with SKCM Ambers and I'd say they'd also go well with linears too. I'd say cylindrical caps overall go better on your ordinary clicky switches like SKCM Blue and White.

I feel like the deeper scooping really focuses the feel of the switch onto your finger tips as well, which is great for some switches.

I also want to say that I did not like the ICL One Per Desk caps much in terms of feel. They look great, but high profile key caps without much of a scoop at all feel pretty... Underwhelming.

Interesting. How do the Multistations feel on SKCM Brown/Green? I'd imagine they are still a great combo. HiPro caps seem to go well on heavier switches that have a higher tactility.

Comparing the Multistation and Canon caps on SKCM Amber I do prefer the Canons. They may not be as scooped but feel thicker and deeper than the Multistations. Possibly because there is more plastic between you and the switches b/c of the increased angle.

Also to note SKCM Ambers seem to do best in modern keyboards. The Focus really didn't do it justice. Between the build quality and plate thickness/material i'm not sure. SKCM Ambers lend themselves to 60%'s anyway since they come in 62 key batches.

Also b/c of this the multistation caps are not in use, idk what to use them on now. The one thing i've always looked at is that the set would fit super well on the Ortek MCK-84. You can use the right shift and ISO enter. The only caps that would not fit would be the backspace and most of the bottom row.

[dante]

Speaking of keycaps are DSA the lowest profile caps you can get for Alps?  If yes, what would be 2nd place?

[E3E]

Speaking of keycaps are DSA the lowest profile caps you can get for Alps?  If yes, what would be 2nd place?

Here are the lowest profile caps I know of for Alps:









The Y key is the vintage flat/incredibly shallow-scooped uniform profile, the black key is PBT DSA for the Infinity keyboard, and the 8 key is uniform cylindrical Alps profile. All keys in these profiles are uniform, meaning that there is no per-row sculpting.

[dante]

could you take a picture from underneath?  Also what vintage boards did you get those caps from?

[mike52787]

could you take a picture from underneath?  Also what vintage boards did you get those caps from?

I believe that the spherical cap is from a vintage bondwell laptop, and the cylindrical cap is from another old laptop. If youre interested, I have a set of the cylindrical uniform profile caps, but you would need DSA mods as its a weird ass layout.

[E3E]

could you take a picture from underneath?  Also what vintage boards did you get those caps from?

Sure. I've included some more examples of the uniform cylindrical profile as well:





from left to right

Top: DSA Infinity Alps PBT, Bondwell PRO 8T (ABS)

Bottom: Xerox 6085/DocuTech STOP key (ABS), Sharp PA 1000 doubleshot ABS, Sharp PA 1000 alternate version, Unknown Chinese laptop/phone board (PBT), Xerox 6085/Docutech function column keys (PBT).

The Chinese board has only been seen in PCB form so I have no idea what it came from.

Also note that the DocuTech and 6085 only use this profile for the left-hand function column and nothing else.

[dante]

Thank you very much!

[menuhin]

I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken. It intrigues me where all the tooling for these caps with now 'exotic' profiles have gone.





(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)

[Mattr567]

I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken.

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(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)

I remember this profile, that (which is a believe a TI keyboard w/ SKCM Brown?) uses it and the AT&T PC 7300 also uses that profile, and also happens to use SKCM Brown.

could you take a picture from underneath?  Also what vintage boards did you get those caps from?

Sure. I've included some more examples of the uniform cylindrical profile as well:

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from left to right

Top: DSA Infinity Alps PBT, Bondwell PRO 8T (ABS)

Bottom: Xerox 6085/DocuTech STOP key (ABS), Sharp PA 1000 doubleshot ABS, Sharp PA 1000 alternate version, Unknown Chinese laptop/phone board (PBT), Xerox 6085/Docutech function column keys (PBT).

The Chinese board has only been seen in PCB form so I have no idea what it came from.

Also note that the DocuTech and 6085 only use this profile for the left-hand function column and nothing else.

Some of the Multistation caps are also very low, these blank caps especially.

[E3E]

Those Texas Instruments caps have always reminded me of AEK key caps, though from the side, they definitely look different and more sculpted. They are really cool if not weird.  )

Yeah, the Multistation key caps are a high sculpted profile for the main "60%" grid, but everything else on that 122 key beast is uniform low profile, if I remember correctly.





Here are comparison pics for those too.

[menuhin]

The low profile caps of AT&T PC 7300 look real nice too:

[E3E]

The low profile caps of AT&T PC 7300 look real nice too:

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The link is broken. D:





This should work. Weird.

[alienman82]

removed.

[mike52787]

I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken. It intrigues me where all the tooling for these caps with now 'exotic' profiles have gone.

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(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)

I can get you a profile shot of these caps, I have them on my 60% right now. they are awesome caps, with brown doubleshot lettering and the strangest homing bumps ive ever seen.

[menuhin]

I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken. It intrigues me where all the tooling for these caps with now 'exotic' profiles have gone.

Show Image

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(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)

I can get you a profile shot of these caps, I have them on my 60% right now. they are awesome caps, with brown doubleshot lettering and the strangest homing bumps ive ever seen.

Yes please. These nice caps need to be shown to the world, despite this is just an Alps enthusiasts self-pleasuring thread.

We are now at an age of high-quantity production boring key cap profiles, even the best-selling SA are clearly not as great as the older incarnations on Beamsprings and Space-cadet etc. And there are not many other options in both low and normal profiles.

[E3E]

I can at least add one more about forgotten low profile key caps for Alps switches (thanks for the help of alienman82!). They are of a quite low profile and probably sculpted differently for each row if I am not mistaken. It intrigues me where all the tooling for these caps with now 'exotic' profiles have gone.

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(I'll post something about this keyboard when I have time.)

Forgot about those pictures I took :D

That board was cool, glad I was able to grab one for my VE.A build. :)  Pays to be a proxy  :p :p

Yeah, shame I didn't get pinged to proxy it, since half of my SKCM Browns went missing. :( :P

[E3E]

Just finished retrobrighting the Xerox 6085 for Wingpad to use to hopefully make a converter for the Xerox boards. Thanks also to MAR82 for the parts and to HouseofSuffering for lending me the Mouse Trak trackball so we can get some thorough testing down. It's been a long time coming. I was also lucky to get the detachable cable for these since this one did not come with one.

I can thank the eBay seller I got the SKCM Green 6085 from for that. He had a ton of left over Xerox OSD stuff.

The board also has SKCM Whites in it since the original was scrapped for its switches (SKCM Brown) and I put an SKCL Yellow in the Caps Lock position with an orange LED for good measure.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

french?

AZERTY indeed, my friend. Lol. Yeah, the only one I've seen that is too. The grumpy ebay seller had a few French Canadian layouts that are like a hybrid between this and QWERTY.

Should still be fine to test with. This thing was well used too. A lot of the caps are shined up.

[Mattr567]

Anybody interested in the SKBM (Fukka) Whites?

[MandrewDavis]

Anyone looking to sell around 60-70 yellow alps?

[Hypersphere]

Alps switches: To Lube or Not to Lube?

Apparently, some SKCM Alps switches had some kind of dry lube applied to the sliders at the factory. This has been reported for Blue, Brown, Orange, and early-model White Alps. Later White Alps sliders were presumably made with a more slippery plastic that did not require lubrication.

So, if you can find Blue, Brown, Orange, or White Alps in pristine condition, it would probably be better not to clean or lube the switches.

If the switches are not pristine and require cleaning, then cleaning alone should be fine for later-model White Alps.

However, if you clean Blue, Brown, Orange, or early-model White Alps, it might be good to lube the sliders. Several people have warned against using non-dry lube (oils or greases). This leaves dry lubes, such as molybdenum disulfide or PTFE. Any recommendations on how to apply dry lubes to sliders to ensure bonding of the lube to the plastic and to ensure that the lube is applied evenly?

[Mattr567]

Alps switches: To Lube or Not to Lube?

Apparently, some SKCM Alps switches had some kind of dry lube applied to the sliders at the factory. This has been reported for Blue, Brown, Orange, and early-model White Alps. Later White Alps sliders were presumably made with a more slippery plastic that did not require lubrication.

So, if you can find Blue, Brown, Orange, or White Alps in pristine condition, it would probably be better not to clean or lube the switches.

If the switches are not pristine and require cleaning, then cleaning alone should be fine for later-model White Alps.

However, if you clean Blue, Brown, Orange, or early-model White Alps, it might be good to lube the sliders. Several people have warned against using non-dry lube (oils or greases). This leaves dry lubes, such as molybdenum disulfide or PTFE. Any recommendations on how to apply dry lubes to sliders to ensure bonding of the lube to the plastic and to ensure that the lube is applied evenly?

Yes the early ones did. All first gen switches had lube.

I always clean all my switches i'm going to use no matter what. Air can't hurt them and dust removal is always a good thing.

I lubed the Taobao Blue switches since they were in a horrible way. It really is a last resort. After they were ultrasonic'd (including the slider which removes the lube) I used some Dupont Teflon Silicone Lube. Applied using a q-tip, putting on the sides of the slider. I did see a noticeable improvement. It takes a couple days for the lube to dry which is when it really takes effect.

I did not ultrasonic the Taobao Green sliders since they were fine. Only the tops of those were ultrasonic'd. I did lube the slider wells however since the top housings had some permanent damage. Noticeable gains were made after the lube had dried. The only reason I did the Blue sliders is because they were gritty and the only way to fix that was to ultrasonic which also takes away the lube.

Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.

[chyros]

Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.

I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.

[Hypersphere]

Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.

I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.

Chyros, it seems that the only Alps switches that fall into your hands are in pristine condition!

[E3E]

I likely face a similar good fortune since most of my keyboards' did not need any cleaning or restoration of the switches. I made a point of opening up and dusting all of my DocuTech's (and 6085) switches just to make sure there was no dust in there. The only board I've ever had to restore was my 6085 that needed new tops which I salvaged from SKCM Salmons. 
 
Everything else has been just fine for me. I'm probably going to ultrasonic the SKCL Striped Amber tops before I put them to use, but I'm also heavily against cleaning the sliders, even if they came from a dirty board. I've never seen sliders sticky with dirt or anything that just couldn't be dusted or wiped off. I once took some SKCM Blues from a TaoBao condition board (that is, junked, junkyard stuff), caked with dust in the top housing, and put the slider in a clean housing and it felt fine again.

I personally feel that the largest contributor to feel and smoothness is the top housing, but because the older sliders relied on dry lube, I would not wash them. This makes me curious to try new sliders in old gen switches. Like younger SKCM White sliders in SKCM Blue housings.

One thing I'd like to note is that SKCM Green (I forget if it's just pines or bamboo) has a tendency to squeak from the friction of the slider against the tactile leaf. I've never had any SKCM Browns do this. It really doesn't impart a feeling of scratchiness, but I even got a commenter on one of my videos noting how their SKCM Greens have the same sound. I like comparing it to the Topre squeak.

Annoyingly, he didn't respond to my question about his SKCM Greens, lol.

I've lubed the leaves and the sliders before and it hasn't cut down on it. Makes me wonder what's causing it and if the slick plastic is smoother than the sliders with dry lube from the factory or not. Now that I think about it, I should try putting an SKCM Brown slider in a SKCM Green housing and vise versa to see what I can deduce.

[chyros]

Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.

I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.

Chyros, it seems that the only Alps switches that fall into your hands are in pristine condition!

Either pristine or unsalvageably bad, yeah that's actually fairly accurate xD .

[Hypersphere]

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I personally feel that the largest contributor to feel and smoothness is the top housing, but because the older sliders relied on dry lube, I would not wash them. This makes me curious to try new sliders in old gen switches. Like younger SKCM White sliders in SKCM Blue housings.

<snip>
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<snip>

Yes, I agree that the top housing is quite important, at least as a partial determinant of the sound of an Alps switch. I first noticed this with my current favorite chassis for Alps, the Northgate Omnikey 101. I had restored one of these that I liked very much. I thought I would save myself the trouble of extensive cleaning and refurbishing by finding one of these boards in what I would imagine to be Chyros-approved pristine condition. When I did so, I found that I didn't like the sound at all -- it was rattly compared to the older, originally dirtier Northgate. As far as I could determine, the difference was that the older board had the Pine (slits) top housings, whereas the newer board had the Bamboo (no slits) top housings.

I've also been tempted to try later-model White Alps sliders in other types of Alps switches, because presumably the later-model White Alps sliders are made of a slipperier plastic that does not require additional lubrication. However, I've noticed subtle differences in the construction of White Alps sliders compared to, say, Blue Alps sliders. The spring peg in the White Alps sliders appears to be a bit thicker and longer than the spring peg in Blue Alps sliders.

[Mattr567]

Cleaning ANY Alps switch is completely fine, and recommended. Lube is not needed. Its extra work for little to no reward unless in extreme cases like me. Ultrasonic should ONLY be reserved for switch tops unless of extreme cases like me.

I really disagree here. If there's nothing wrong with them, it's much better to leave them as they are, in my experience.

Well, cleaning isnt always needed if they are perfect but I like to clean my switches even if there is a little dust inside them. Can't hurt really.

<snip>
<snip>

I personally feel that the largest contributor to feel and smoothness is the top housing, but because the older sliders relied on dry lube, I would not wash them. This makes me curious to try new sliders in old gen switches. Like younger SKCM White sliders in SKCM Blue housings.

<snip>
<snip>
<snip>

Yes, I agree that the top housing is quite important, at least as a partial determinant of the sound of an Alps switch. I first noticed this with my current favorite chassis for Alps, the Northgate Omnikey 101. I had restored one of these that I liked very much. I thought I would save myself the trouble of extensive cleaning and refurbishing by finding one of these boards in what I would imagine to be Chyros-approved pristine condition. When I did so, I found that I didn't like the sound at all -- it was rattly compared to the older, originally dirtier Northgate. As far as I could determine, the difference was that the older board had the Pine (slits) top housings, whereas the newer board had the Bamboo (no slits) top housings.

I've also been tempted to try later-model White Alps sliders in other types of Alps switches, because presumably the later-model White Alps sliders are made of a slipperier plastic that does not require additional lubrication. However, I've noticed subtle differences in the construction of White Alps sliders compared to, say, Blue Alps sliders. The spring peg in the White Alps sliders appears to be a bit thicker and longer than the spring peg in Blue Alps sliders.

Yea. Lubing and ultrasonic should be a last resort. Doing the switch tops on bad switches however usually solves the problem

[Hypersphere]

We are not always fortunate enough to acquire keyboards with Alps switches in pristine condition. I would tend to favor doing a standard cleaning regimen of all the easily removeable switch parts (top housings, sliders, tactile/click leaves, and return springs). Ultrasonic cleaning provides a relative easy, quick, reproducible, and highly effective method that should do no harm to any of these components, except that if done thoroughly, it will remove any lubricant that had been applied to the sliders and transferred to the switch housings.

If lack of lubricant is a concern, the sliders could be lubed again or replaced with recent-generation White sliders that have inherently high lubricity. To me, relubing is the controversial part because I am not sure what lube was applied at the factory or how it was done.

[Mattr567]

Smexy No more tree logo!


Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.

Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:

[E3E]

Smexy No more tree logo!

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Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.

Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:

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Ahh, something I'm actually not familiar with. What is that? The red bit showing through the switch?

[mike52787]

Smexy No more tree logo!

Show Image

Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.

Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:

Show Image

Show Image

Ahh, something I'm actually not familiar with. What is that? The red bit showing through the switch?

some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.

[alh84001]

I had that on some of my SKCM/SKCL switches, can't remember which exactly, but I think they were blues.

[E3E]

some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.

Oh, I see. Interesting. Seems like it might've been to protect the plastic from deformation during the soldering process if there's too much heat.

That's one thing I've never seen before!

[Mattr567]

I had that on some of my SKCM/SKCL switches, can't remember which exactly, but I think they were blues.

Any pics?

some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.

Any pics? I've only ever seen it red on SKCC switches. Never on SKCL/SKCM.

some sort of protective coating around the pins on the switchplate. some of the switches I got from taobao had it, but they had a clear coating instead of red.

Oh, I see. Interesting. Seems like it might've been to protect the plastic from deformation during the soldering process if there's too much heat.

That's one thing I've never seen before!

Thats a really good point actually. I thought it was supposed to keep the switchplate in place when they are loose during assembly or something like that. Made it easier to put back together when I was cleaning them up

Me neither. They are ONLY on the LED switches too. They have grey plates so they aren't the oldest SKCL ever but the SKCL Cream spacebar had a black switchplate. XT so its gonna be early either way ('84-'85?)

[chyros]

Smexy No more tree logo!

Show Image

Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.

Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:

Show Image

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I had been wondering about this for a while, so does the black XT badge fit the ZKB-2 perfectly then? Did you sand off the original lettering and stuck the XT badge on, or did you do something different with it? It looks gorgeous, I might try and do it as well!

[Mattr567]

Smexy No more tree logo!

Show Image

Thanks so much to itzmeluigi for the free Zenith Z-150 parts! Dyesub caps, SKCL Cream, SKCL Green LEDs and the black XT badge.

Also found this very interesting. I have never seen this before on SKCL/SKCM. I thought only SKCC's had this feature:

Show Image

Show Image

I had been wondering about this for a while, so does the black XT badge fit the ZKB-2 perfectly then? Did you sand off the original lettering and stuck the XT badge on, or did you do something different with it? It looks gorgeous, I might try and do it as well!

It fits perfectly. Its the exact size as the ZKB-2 (or 163-73 in my case).

Since its not actually a ZKB-2 the logo doesn't come off so it makes it easier. The original fixed tree logo is simply glued on, so I pried it off and super glued it in place. Pretty easy. Its the same thickness as the original as well so it looks factory. The black XT logo is actually metal while the newer tree logo is plastic too.

You will have a harder time with a ZKB-2 since the logo clips in and such. I was able to ditch the old one entirely! The surface it goes on is smooth plastic and recessed.

[Mattr567]

A SKCM Amber just failed on the V60 for no reason. Lol why tho ??

Replaced switchplate and its good

[alienman82]

removed.

[MandrewDavis]

A SKCM Amber just failed on the V60 for no reason. Lol why tho ??

Replaced switchplate and its good

because it's not cherry

50 Million > 20 Million
Cherry < Alps

[alienman82]

removed.