Alps Appreciation Thread

[happylacquer]

I hope this is the right place to post this. My AEK2 is all cleaned up and ready to be USB converted with a Teensy.

Only thing, a little lost on how the default Teensy config would work on Windows/Linux... will the alt/option key work as the windows key, control as control and apple as alt?

With TMK firmware, control is control, alt/option is alt, and the apple key is Windows/Superkey(Linux).  I tested mine on Windows 7/10 and Linux Lite 3.0.

Thanks a million for this! I will use this knowledge to edit the layout to how i was expectin it.

I am still cleaning it before I put it all back together, so i have a little while to figure out and set up my layout how i want it.

[MandrewDavis]

Also remember that other Packard Bell I mentioned a little while back? Well the dudes parents gave it to goodwill before I could get to it

Checked my local stores for it where the guy said it might be, but nothing. RIP, we will never know if the pad printed version had SKCM Blue or White.

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That is a shame, what kind of caps are on your Packard Bell?

[E3E]

Also remember that other Packard Bell I mentioned a little while back? Well the dudes parents gave it to goodwill before I could get to it

Checked my local stores for it where the guy said it might be, but nothing. RIP, we will never know if the pad printed version had SKCM Blue or White.

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That is a shame, what kind of caps are on your Packard Bell?

They're Alps Electric ABS doubleshots, but Mattr said that on this one that was being sold, they were pad printed or something.

[Mattr567]

Also remember that other Packard Bell I mentioned a little while back? Well the dudes parents gave it to goodwill before I could get to it

Checked my local stores for it where the guy said it might be, but nothing. RIP, we will never know if the pad printed version had SKCM Blue or White.

More

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That is a shame, what kind of caps are on your Packard Bell?

They're Alps Electric ABS doubleshots, but Mattr said that on this one that was being sold, they were pad printed or something.

Yea. You can tell the caps are pad printed since the legends are coming off really badly :p

Also notice that the board has bars not nubs like mine so the caps are diffrent for sure.

To me it feels like the same situation as the Acer KB101 / KB101AS versions.

[Mattr567]

Was doing some research on NEC boards and found mousefan's page on the PC-8801 keyboard. 200g SKCM Heavy Blue?

http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/pc8801.htm

[Mattr567]

Also discovered the Packard Bell has 6NKRO, which is nice. I had been using the Zenith for gaming but its only 2NKRO so it was a bit hard to play.

[E3E]

Also discovered the Packard Bell has 6NKRO, which is nice. I had been using the Zenith for gaming but its only 2NKRO so it was a bit hard to play.

Haha you mean 6KRO. 6 NKRO is like saying it has 6 key, no key rollover.

Does the PCB have diodes? Usually 6KRO is a USB limitation. I get full NKRO with my Leading Edge DC-3014. The DocuTechs also have diodes, so I'm really hoping they get converted.

If you use soarer's converter, you should be able to see if it has NKRO. Or try typing "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." with both left and right shift keys held and see what you get.

[Mattr567]

Also discovered the Packard Bell has 6NKRO, which is nice. I had been using the Zenith for gaming but its only 2NKRO so it was a bit hard to play.

Haha you mean 6KRO. 6 NKRO is like saying it has 6 key, no key rollover.

Does the PCB have diodes? Usually 6KRO is a USB limitation. I get full NKRO with my Leading Edge DC-3014. The DocuTechs also have diodes, so I'm really hoping they get converted.

If you use soarer's converter, you should be able to see if it has NKRO. Or try typing "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." with both left and right shift keys held and see what you get.

Haha yea.

I'm not sure, but in the microsoft keyboard ghosting test it managed to score a lot better than the Zenith. I can press all of WASD at once where I couldn't with the Zenith for example.

[Wingklip]

Is there any such thing as an alps blue tactile? (Non clicky)

[happylacquer]

Are there any ADB to PS/2 conversion kits?

Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.

[Mattr567]

Are there any ADB to PS/2 conversion kits?

Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.

Not that I know of, and I don't see the point either.

Is there any such thing as an alps blue tactile? (Non clicky)

Nope! That would be unprecedented. Alps has never made a switch with the same color slider and switch top w/ out any differentiating differences like the stripe of SKCL Striped Amber. SKCM Cream/Cream Damp is a noticeably different shade and SKCL Cream is differentiated by the LED cutout for example. A tactile SKCM Blue and a clicky SKCM Blue would look the exact same on the outside.

Pretty sure those NEC Blues are just worn/need work.

[OfTheWild]

I'm halfway through desoldering this V80 guys... you werent lying, this is insane. No lifted pads yet... but blisters on my left fingers from pulling hot switches while desoldering the inside of the pcb holes. 

[Mattr567]

I'm halfway through desoldering this V80 guys... you werent lying, this is insane. No lifted pads yet... but blisters on my left fingers from pulling hot switches while desoldering the inside of the pcb holes. 

I never pulled any switches 'hot' but I made damn sure that there was NO solder left in the through hole and crossed my fingers when pulling the switches. Also pulling them carefully and slowly. Total build time was about 3-4 hours.

Post any pics?

Here is mine desoldered:



This is what you don't want, from my first time. That's the inside of the through hole on the leg.

[childofthehorn]

Sleep/Wake ?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[OfTheWild]

I'm halfway through desoldering this V80 guys... you werent lying, this is insane. No lifted pads yet... but blisters on my left fingers from pulling hot switches while desoldering the inside of the pcb holes. 

I never pulled any switches 'hot' but I made damn sure that there was NO solder left in the through hole and crossed my fingers when pulling the switches. Also pulling them carefully and slowly. Total build time was about 3-4 hours.

Post any pics?

Here is mine desoldered:

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This is what you don't want, from my first time. That's the inside of the through hole on the leg.

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Yup, i think our experiences are looking very similar. I did pull out the back of a tube a few switches in before realizing just how thick this pcb is and how much solder was still left deep down in there. I was lucky though, i managed to get it back in place and new "dampened cream" soldered in.

Heres some pics, kinda tough to see (sorry for cellphone photos). Also added a "staged" photo of how i'm attempting to get the switch out while heating back and forth on each leg and wiggling the switch back and forth... moving it a mm at a time on some. Some i'm lucky and they just let go as soon as the solder melts. Needless to say, this is hands down the most difficult board i've had to work with (and I literally just spent last week with a TKL Leopold where every switch was bent and soldered lol).

[OfTheWild]

Oh and also finding that sometimes you just have to backfill with some nice fresh rosin core leaded solder... and then once it mixes with that garbage from the factory, suck it all up and out. Works well for some stubborn ones where any more playing will pull that pad up.

[schoolbus]

lol, looks like you were literally me this weekend. I got the V80 w/ Fukka switches on Friday and desoldered it (truly was a pain in the ass, excessive amounts of flux and tip tinning helped a lot though), had a lifted pad & trace that I fixed with jumpers so all is well now.

Now glorious Orange ALPS TKL with SGI granite / stock keycap mix. I'm sure my orange alps aren't as great as brand new but all things considered I'm extremely happy with this, orange alps feel really great and might have the best sound of any switch I've used.

here's a potato photo.

[happylacquer]

I could offer to help people out on desoldering switches. I splurged on a Hakko 808 for repairing some arcade machine and still use it all the time. I'm going to do a friend's spare AEK and send him back the switches. In return he will cut the plate for me for the Hasu PCB

[Hypersphere]

Today I installed an Orihalcon-Soarer converter in my Zenith 163-73 keyboard.



The converter plugs into the header on the keyboard PCB. I then plugged a micro-USB cable with a panel-mount micro-USB connector into the converter and installed the panel-mount connector inside the case of the keyboard after drilling the holes for the screws and access to the connector. I widened and shaped the access hole as needed using small curved hand files.

At first, I tried using a micro-USB cable with panel-mount connector that I had purchased from DataPro -- these work perfectly inside the Northgate Omnikey 101, but this connector is a bit too large for the Zenith case. I was happy to discover that Adafruit now carries both mini-USB and micro-USB cables with panel-mount connectors. The Adafruit connectors are smaller than the ones from DataPro, and I was able to fit the Adafruit connector into the Zenith case.


https://www.adafruit.com/product/3258

The Zenith 163-73 is AT protocol, so it would not be necessary to use an Orihalcon-Soarer converter, but I like to remap keys to a HHKB-esque layout. On the Zenith, I use the oversized Right Brace as my Backspace and the 1u Backslash to the right of Right Shift as my Fn key.

I have also click-modded the Zenith by replacing the switch top housings with those from SKCM white (pine) Alps and adding the white Alps click leaves. I kept all the other parts from the yellow Alps switches. I am typing on the board now, and I really enjoy the sound and feel of the switches in the Zenith chassis. This has turned out to be my best Alps board yet -- no issues at all with binding, unresponsive keys, or chattering keys.

[Mattr567]

Interesting. Most people use those for XT protcol Z-150's and stuff.

I'm just happy with the normal layout. Just modded with SKCL Striped Ambers and a black XT badge. Perfect OEM+ style imo.

[Mattr567]

Finished the SGI swap. So now its SKCM Brown/Cream only, no SKCM Orange.

Also switched back to the Packard as a daily. Forgot how good it is Wonderful slick solid pingy SKCM Blue in a normal ANSI layout

[Wingklip]

Are there any ADB to PS/2 conversion kits?

Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.

Not that I know of, and I don't see the point either.

Is there any such thing as an alps blue tactile? (Non clicky)

Nope! That would be unprecedented. Alps has never made a switch with the same color slider and switch top w/ out any differentiating differences like the stripe of SKCL Striped Amber. SKCM Cream/Cream Damp is a noticeably different shade and SKCL Cream is differentiated by the LED cutout for example. A tactile SKCM Blue and a clicky SKCM Blue would look the exact same on the outside.

Pretty sure those NEC Blues are just worn/need work.

NEC tactile blues? All of them are equally tactile and Not clicky. I could've sword I saw the alps logo on the top as well.

[Mattr567]

Are there any ADB to PS/2 conversion kits?

Apple Keyboard users: What the f*** do you guys map to the power button? I guess I could use it for mute/unmute if I can't think anything else.

Not that I know of, and I don't see the point either.

Is there any such thing as an alps blue tactile? (Non clicky)

Nope! That would be unprecedented. Alps has never made a switch with the same color slider and switch top w/ out any differentiating differences like the stripe of SKCL Striped Amber. SKCM Cream/Cream Damp is a noticeably different shade and SKCL Cream is differentiated by the LED cutout for example. A tactile SKCM Blue and a clicky SKCM Blue would look the exact same on the outside.

Pretty sure those NEC Blues are just worn/need work.

NEC tactile blues? All of them are equally tactile and Not clicky. I could've sword I saw the alps logo on the top as well.

Get it and lets find out!

[E3E]

He had the NEC 8100 boards, but they had SKCM Blue alps, not NEC switches.

[Mattr567]

He had the NEC 8100 boards, but they had SKCM Blue alps, not NEC switches.

I know. I just called them NEC blues since they are SKCM Blues from a NEC board.

Interested to find out about that other one that is claimed to be tactile

[E3E]

I thought that might've been the case, haha. Yeah, tactile SKCM Blues would be interesting. Reminds me of when I cleaned the plate of my Datapoint KB101A with alcohol and it ended up muting the switches, effectively making them tactile blues until the alcohol evaporated, haha.

[OfTheWild]

lol, looks like you were literally me this weekend. I got the V80 w/ Fukka switches on Friday and desoldered it (truly was a pain in the ass, excessive amounts of flux and tip tinning helped a lot though), had a lifted pad & trace that I fixed with jumpers so all is well now.

Now glorious Orange ALPS TKL with SGI granite / stock keycap mix. I'm sure my orange alps aren't as great as brand new but all things considered I'm extremely happy with this, orange alps feel really great and might have the best sound of any switch I've used.

here's a potato photo.

Nice, I will admit i did life a trace and had to super glue the pad back in and then I scratched some bare copper along the path and added a line of solder. Unfortunately this was a trace on the "top" of the pcb so i had to desolder my ambitiously added creams and separate the plate and pcb. That way I could do the repair and then file the solder blobs flush with the PCB so the switch sat level. All said and done, it was probably the most challenging desolder i've done.

Heres my notes for anyone doing this V80 board in the future:

Tip1: Keep your solder iron at 680-700 F. Don't get greedy and go up to 900 for lead-free, - i think the pads/tubes are just placed and not glued in.
Tip2: Once you suck out the majority of the lead-free from the factory, add rosin core leaded solder... and once it soaks into the existing garbage, suck it all out much easier and cleaner.
Tip3: Go slow with pulling the switches out. Heat each side and try to break it loose to wiggle back and forth rather than tugging.. because you'll pull a pad off the top side really really easily.

Complete:

V80 with cream.



Many thanks to 'Henz' for supplying all the parts for this project

[Hypersphere]

Nice V80 transformation. Where did you source the keycaps?

[Mattr567]

Looks like it came out well!

For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches

(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)

It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.

The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.

[schoolbus]

Looks like it came out well!

For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches

(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)

It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.

The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.

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holy hell lol, and I thought I had it bad. Impressive!

[Hypersphere]

Looks like it came out well!

For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches

(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)

It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.

The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.

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holy hell lol, and I thought I had it bad. Impressive!

Indeed. Looks like a snake pit or a telephone switchboard from the 1940s.

[OfTheWild]

Nice V80 transformation. Where did you source the keycaps?

I'm not completely sure but the grey kit is a taobao set i think, and the blue modifiers were something else. I bought them, along with the vintage cream dampened switches, from Henz. I would have loved to use more of the blue mods but they have cherry based stabs and the v80 uses something stupid as you can see from my pics.

Looks like it came out well!

For my, well many repairs on my original V60 I as able to find where the hidden traces went, by attaching a wire to the broken through hole, and then with the keyboard connected, tap different switch legs with the other end of the wire to get the correct output. So it ended up as a bunch of wires connecting broken through holes to random pins of other switches

(I highly recommend opening the first image in a separate window to get a better idea of what I'm talking about)

It looked a little something like this. You can see where for example the left pin of switch 8 connect to the right pin of switch I. And I even had to double up on a couple of switches, for example you can see the left pin of switch U connect to the right pin of switch J, but then you can also see another wire going from the right pin of switch J to the left pin of switch N. You can see other double ups such as the left pin of switch L.

The most amazing part of this mess is that it actually worked.

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Thats just crazy lol I did notice that there are traces on top and bottom depending on which switch pole you're going to... I did pop out the pad for the scroll lock on my second switch in and realizing the "gentle or bust" warnings for this were no joke... but luckily it was the non-trace side so it didn't matter in the end. I was not so lucky for that O switch that i ended up doing an arts-n-crafts project on - all hidden under the switch though.

[E3E]

Nice V80 transformation. Where did you source the keycaps?

I'm not completely sure but the grey kit is a taobao set i think, and the blue modifiers were something else. I bought them, along with the vintage cream dampened switches, from Henz. I would have loved to use more of the blue mods but they have cherry based stabs and the v80 uses something stupid as you can see from my pics.

That would be the Tai Hao Olivette set. The light blue keys are bits from the Badwrench Alps DCS Infinity Modifiers kit.

[OfTheWild]

Nice V80 transformation. Where did you source the keycaps?

I'm not completely sure but the grey kit is a taobao set i think, and the blue modifiers were something else. I bought them, along with the vintage cream dampened switches, from Henz. I would have loved to use more of the blue mods but they have cherry based stabs and the v80 uses something stupid as you can see from my pics.

That would be the Tai Hao Olivette set. The light blue keys are bits from the Badwrench Alps DCS Infinity Modifiers kit.

Ah very cool, thanks!

[yuppie]

Are alps keysets/artisans just as hard/harder to find as topre? :/

why i gotta like the rare ****?

[OfTheWild]

I know Booper made a few, but otherwise, they're unheard of.

[E3E]

One of the final bits and pieces I've been searching for in terms of switches. Now the only switches I've never used (that we know of) is Alps SKCL Heavy Cream and Alps SKCL Heavy Grey.




Got this for a crazy deal. Only $23, but the caps are definitely shined a tad. It's interesting. The profile is similar to the C.Itoh PBT cap profile, but the top row is different and the bottom row is more like the ASDF row on the Itoh caps, whereas the Itoh caps' bottom row is the same as the row above it. 
 
The itohs have deep dish homing; these have none. The Multistation caps are definitely unique to both of these profiles. 
 
I'm curious to see if the Yamaha MSX hi pros are more similar to the ICL One Per Desk profile or are unique unto themselves. For now, I'm only looking for interesting caps and cap profiles, especially sphericals. 
 

[Mattr567]

One of the final bits and pieces I've been searching for in terms of switches. Now the only switches I've never used (that we know of) is Alps SKCL Heavy Cream and Alps SKCL Heavy Grey.

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Got this for a crazy deal. Only $23, but the caps are definitely shined a tad. It's interesting. The profile is similar to the C.Itoh PBT cap profile, but the top row is different and the bottom row is more like the ASDF row on the Itoh caps, whereas the Itoh caps' bottom row is the same as the row above it. 
 
The itohs have deep dish homing; these have none. The Multistation caps are definitely unique to both of these profiles. 
 
I'm curious to see if the Yamaha MSX hi pros are more similar to the ICL One Per Desk profile or are unique unto themselves. For now, I'm only looking for interesting caps and cap profiles, especially sphericals. 
 

Dude where did you find that?!

Always been wanting to find one of those. What Alps does it have?

Those are the same caps as my little Canon.

[Mattr567]

If its like this it could be either SKCM Cream (which is supposedly heavier than normal Cream) or SKCM Black. Also it has couple of SKCL Greens, and those weird white slider ones.

Either way would be interested in some for my switch collection

Source:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/canon-typewriter-keyboards-t4242.html

[E3E]

If its like this it could be either SKCM Cream (which is supposedly heavier than normal Cream) or SKCM Black. Also it has couple of SKCL Greens, and those weird white slider ones.

Either way would be interested in some for my switch collection

Source:
https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/canon-typewriter-keyboards-t4242.html

I'd talk to Parak if you want to get one of his. He still has them, but he's incredibly lazy about selling/shipping them, so I wouldn't count on it. I got mine from eBay. It wasn't functional, and the seller was willing to part out the keyboard. You Apple IIc and 5140 hounds might understand the process. 
 
It has OG SKCM Cream, as in the generation before NeXT's, but it doesn't feel much different if you ask me. I haven't tested back to back, but my initial impression is that they're quite similar. I need to open one up to see if jacobolus' memory of the tops being symmetrical like SKCM Brown is correct. 
 
There's also the SKCL Double Action switch, which is weird and wouldn't have any real function on a standard PCB unless you handwired it or did some DIY modding on a PCB to give the second action a different function.

[E3E]

Seems like my Canon has essentially the same kind as the no-top-logo SKCM Creams I got from Mandrew, but with a different spring and grey switch plate. The tactile leaf is the same. I'm assuming the ones jacobolus talked about must be from early examples within the AP series that has these switches.

Welp, I don't want to scavange through a ton of 15+ lb typewriters for them. Lol. I doubt it's worth it.

[menuhin]

... The profile is similar to the C.Itoh PBT cap profile, but the top row is different and the bottom row is more like the ASDF row on the Itoh caps, whereas the Itoh caps' bottom row is the same as the row above it. 
 
The itohs have deep dish homing; these have none. The Multistation caps are definitely unique to both of these profiles. 
 
I'm curious to see if the Yamaha MSX hi pros are more similar to the ICL One Per Desk profile or are unique unto themselves...

Will these these Alps hi pros caps be ever produced again?

Alps enthusiasts love to be hopeful that Alps switches will slowly conquer the world for its quality being indeed superior than the modern MX switches (especial the tactile and clicky). However, the market share for Alps switch are indeed on a decline: there has not been any group buy running for Alps key caps for a while, and Tai Hao is not producing caps for Alps switches any longer, and the latest iterations of Korean PCB makers did not add support for Alps switches to their new products.

For many times in history, certain technology or product dominated the market and eliminated its competitors not because it was actually better than the others. There are many other factors than just qualities. I would say MX switches provide users from beginner to advanced enthusiasts a more holistic experience and a lot more rooms to actualize what they want from finished products to customization from springs and key caps to keyboard kits. There is no need to harvest (e.g. only very cheap people will harvest the caps from SkiDATA keyboards) or to convert any board unless you are hunting for some of the most exotic and hyped experiences, e.g. Nixies. On the other hand, the options for Alps switches are very limited (more limited than the past) and this forces users to stick to only a few options or behave like organ harvesters. Of course there are vintage boards collectors that take a similar path of the even more limited choice, e.g. buckling springs and live with Soarer's converters and alike and accustom themselves to various vintage layouts.

What will a user choose?
A hard path (scavengers / organ harvesters / converters builders) or otherwise boring path (e.g. almost only V60/V80 boards, or a few selection of common vintage boards)?
Or a path that has nearly every opportunities already created for you? e.g. switches, switches mods, new caps of different makes and profiles and even those Artisan caps, and many options of keyboard kits.

[squidman]

Got a focus 2001 from my uncle. it's great though too bad it isn't nkro. Is there anyway to mod it for nkro with diodes?

[E3E]

Got a focus 2001 from my uncle. it's great though too bad it isn't nkro. Is there anyway to mod it for nkro with diodes?

This is what I had wished when I got my NTC 6151N (my first alps board), but I killed it instead of fixing it how I had hoped. I'm not an expert in circuitry though. If the keyboard doesn't have blocking programmed into the controller, then I suppose it might be possible. My FAME TH-5539 and NTC 6151N did not have blocking.

[Mattr567]

Holy ****, I had NO CLUE it was THIS BIG

WOW

[E3E]

Holy ****, I had NO CLUE it was THIS BIG

WOW

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No better time to start a small business. You've pretty much got a POS cash register board, lmao. 

That thing is ridiculous.

[Mattr567]

Idk what to even think of it yet. In shock. Mike's few pictures had NO indication of the mammoth this is. I need the K104's pinout to hook up a PS/2 cable.

Inside:

[Mattr567]

Should I make my own case for it???

[E3E]

I think I'm in shock too. Holy ****. I have no idea what to say. That thing is a monster!

[Mattr567]

So I took it completely apart, and put it back together. I don't know what to do with it. I really like SMK but the typing angle is too extreme for me and the size is massive. From the pictures I didn't have a clue it was this big. I can't get it going right now since I need to find out the pinout of the PCB to hook up a PS/2 cable I bought.

What do?

I would be loving a normal K104 right now