Alps Appreciation Thread

[zombimuncha]

What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?

Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.

There's certainly a difference in feel, no possibility about it. The slits give a bit more "spring" to the feel, I think. If you've ever compared pine and bamboo SKCM Blacks, Whites, or SKCM Greens to each other, it's definitely something you can feel.

The lack of slits (bamboo) just lends itself to a cheaper feel. Little more rounded, less resolution.

So if you were to put a pine top housing on a bamboo switch, would it feel more like pine or bamboo?

[Hypersphere]

What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?

Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.

There's certainly a difference in feel, no possibility about it. The slits give a bit more "spring" to the feel, I think. If you've ever compared pine and bamboo SKCM Blacks, Whites, or SKCM Greens to each other, it's definitely something you can feel.

The lack of slits (bamboo) just lends itself to a cheaper feel. Little more rounded, less resolution.

So if you were to put a pine top housing on a bamboo switch, would it feel more like pine or bamboo?

There might be differences in other components of the switch as well, but in my experience, putting a pine top housing on a bamboo switch makes the switch sound and feel more like a pine switch.

I first noticed the pine/bamboo effect on a Northgate Omnikey 101 -- I bought one of these that was in near-pristine condition, but to my surprise (and disappointment), the switches did not sound or feel as good as the switches on my other Omni 101. It turned out that the newer board had bamboo (no slits) switches. I put pine tops on the bamboo switches and now the board sounds and feels like a pine-switch model.

[zslane]

For those who use Alps-type switches and have been itching to put a spherical set of keycaps on them, the LightCycle DSA group buy is back on! And the Alps mount kit needs some love from all you Alps Appreciators out there. Surely there are some more folks here whose taste in keycaps extends past the prosaic world of two-tone gray cylindricals. 

https://thevankeyboards.com/products/lightcycle-keycap-set

[E3E]

What are the slits for? On the tops of pine SKCM switches - is it some kind of vibration damping thing? Do they contribute to the difference in feel between pine and bamboo?

Yes, the slits appear to serve as a damping mechanism. They attenuate the noise of the return stroke and also lessen the clatter from simply touching the keys. They are a major contributor to the difference in sound (and perhaps also feel) between pine and bamboo switches.

There's certainly a difference in feel, no possibility about it. The slits give a bit more "spring" to the feel, I think. If you've ever compared pine and bamboo SKCM Blacks, Whites, or SKCM Greens to each other, it's definitely something you can feel.

The lack of slits (bamboo) just lends itself to a cheaper feel. Little more rounded, less resolution.

So if you were to put a pine top housing on a bamboo switch, would it feel more like pine or bamboo?

It would almost entirely feel like a genuine pine switch. I did this test on Alps SKCM Green and found this to be the case. Like Hypersphere posits, there is a difference in other parts. Notably the springs are shorter and more finely coiled, the nubs that the slider bottoms out on are more pronounced. Those are the main differences. The feel seems similar enough though.

[Mattr567]

So got my Japanese AEKII, and wow, what a clean board Gives me NeXT vibes. It's as if someone opened the box, and then immediately put it in a dust free storage closet for the next 20 years to yellow. The plate is absolutely spotless, absolutely no shine on the caps. The switches might as well be NIB. Feel fantastic. Still desoldered it though, dampened switches just aren't my cup of tea. But I can get the idea of getting behind them.

Enjoy the cleanliness:




You can see the coating texture so clearly!!!

Switches. The shine of the top/bottom housings plastics and the slider (especially the rubber bumper) really tell a story of NO USE!

[subcat]

Great to see it getting the love it deserves! It will be morw at home with you than with me

[mike52787]

Hey guys... I like alps SKCM creams... can you tell?

[Mattr567]

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Hey guys... I like alps SKCM creams... can you tell? :)

Great switches indeed. Too bad their so rare. The NeXT ebay guy is really our only main source for them. Seems he got a hold of a warehouse of old stock or something. NeXT computers were only sold for a few years and less with the non-adb variant. The next best source is those big AP Canon typewriters. I think people would pick them up a lot more but A not a whole lot of people know about them and B you can really only get them locally, ebay shipping is ridiculous (but expected) and rarely does a seller do free ship.

It's kinda like SKCL Striped Amber as well. Some of the best switches Alps made no one got. When the NeXT's dry up we will have a Cream crisis on our hands :rolleyes:

Also about the NeXT thing the vintage computer community hates us, destroying/modifying old hardware! I think some guy called us vultures lol. I try to preserve old hardware when I can and definitely respect it when I do have to take it apart, like the Tandem terminals for example. Or most of the time I repurpose them with new switches etc. The 5140 feast is another one they really hate.

[MandrewDavis]

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Hey guys... I like alps SKCM creams... can you tell? :)

Great switches indeed. Too bad their so rare. The NeXT ebay guy is really our only main source for them. Seems he got a hold of a warehouse of old stock or something. NeXT computers were only sold for a few years and less with the non-adb variant. The next best source is those big AP Canon typewriters. I think people would pick them up a lot more but A not a whole lot of people know about them and B you can really only get them locally, ebay shipping is ridiculous (but expected) and rarely does a seller do free ship.

It's kinda like SKCL Striped Amber as well. Some of the best switches Alps made no one got. When the NeXT's dry up we will have a Cream crisis on our hands :rolleyes:

Also about the NeXT thing the vintage computer community hates us, destroying/modifying old hardware! I think some guy called us vultures lol. I try to preserve old hardware when I can and definitely respect it when I do have to take it apart, like the Tandem terminals for example. Or most of the time I repurpose them with new switches etc. The 5140 feast is another one they really hate.

Of the five keyboards the NeXT eBay guys sold me, three were missing caps, had cracked cases or non-functional. He was surprised I even wanted them. I kept a working one then the other four were harvested and sent off to Mike and E3E. So that only counts as me killing one of them :(

Its a shame that in order to obtain SKCM Ambers and SKCM Browns people basically trash the whole computer. At least on the IIcs, the caps are worth anything to most people, so you could presumably solder some black alps in and resell it intact. The good thing about harvesting switches from 5140s and IICs like my two, is that the broken ones go for much cheaper!

Still haven't touched the 5140 but I would like to do something along the lines of what I saw on DT. Not really harvesting, just temporarily repurposing.

My only KB guilt I carry is the Zenith ZKB-2R sitting in the closet without any switches because its missing a keycap. All the switches were seeming glued to the pcb by whatever gunk was leftover.

[alh84001]

Well, that's why I put other switches into my IIc and 5140 - white into IIc and white damped into 5140, to preserve the original spirit as much as possible.

I'd do it with my other 5140 as well, but I took the whole assembly out and had it converted, so all the pieces are there. It's so beat up anyway, that not many people would consider worthy of preserving anyway.

[chyros]

The case on that Zenith looks warped Oo .

[MandrewDavis]

Well, that's why I put other switches into my IIc and 5140 - white into IIc and white damped into 5140, to preserve the original spirit as much as possible.

I'd do it with my other 5140 as well, but I took the whole assembly out and had it converted, so all the pieces are there. It's so beat up anyway, that not many people would consider worthy of preserving anyway.

I just noticed you did that was you in that thread too! Since the 5140's screen folds down when not in use, they all seem to be very clean. My caps were dirty but the plate was spotless. Another interesting tidbit, I just took the caps off to run through the ultrasonic cleaner and all the stabs seem to be prelubed.

The case on that Zenith looks warped Oo .

I don't think it is, or maybe I never noticed. Congrats on the successful success of your GoFundMe and more importantly, your PhD! Have you ever reviewed brown alps?

[chyros]

Well, that's why I put other switches into my IIc and 5140 - white into IIc and white damped into 5140, to preserve the original spirit as much as possible.

I'd do it with my other 5140 as well, but I took the whole assembly out and had it converted, so all the pieces are there. It's so beat up anyway, that not many people would consider worthy of preserving anyway.

I just noticed you did that was you in that thread too! Since the 5140's screen folds down when not in use, they all seem to be very clean. My caps were dirty but the plate was spotless. Another interesting tidbit, I just took the caps off to run through the ultrasonic cleaner and all the stabs seem to be prelubed.

The case on that Zenith looks warped Oo .

I don't think it is, or maybe I never noticed. Congrats on the successful success of your GoFundMe and more importantly, your PhD! Have you ever reviewed brown alps?

Thank you, and no, I haven't! I really want to do a brown and a cream Alps review, but I want to get one that's super clean as I know otherwise the review will be skewed, and it's not easy to get either. I've been eyeing the NeXT vendor who had that big batch of boards, but his lack of transparency made me not buy, as I wanted to look at the exact one he'd send me. Brown Alps are just rare in general, and not easy to find clean. I very much want to do both though, as I adore salmon and especially orange Alps, on which I type at just about my maximum speed.

[MandrewDavis]

The case on that Zenith looks warped Oo .

I don't think it is, or maybe I never noticed. Congrats on the successful success of your GoFundMe and more importantly, your PhD! Have you ever reviewed brown alps?

Thank you, and no, I haven't! I really want to do a brown and a cream Alps review, but I want to get one that's super clean as I know otherwise the review will be skewed, and it's not easy to get either. I've been eyeing the NeXT vendor who had that big batch of boards, but his lack of transparency made me not buy, as I wanted to look at the exact one he'd send me. Brown Alps are just rare in general, and not easy to find clean. I very much want to do both though, as I adore salmon and especially orange Alps, on which I type at just about my maximum speed.

We need to find you a good clean 5140 with an ISO enter 


EDIT: Does anyone have a set of Apple IIGS keycaps or at least the numpad portion?

[E3E]

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EDIT: Does anyone have a set of Apple IIGS keycaps or at least the numpad portion?

I'd take one, if you don't mind. :P

Those are the best 5140s.

[alh84001]

We need to find you a good clean 5140 with an ISO enter 

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That's a strange looking PSU.

[alienman82]

removed.

[cutterline]

Has anyone tried i-rocks k76m or their hybrid alps-mx slider switch yet? I'd like to know if it still retains alps characteristics.

[Hak Foo]

I think the dampening sort of killed it.  It was quiet like a MX blue and not as ultra-tactile as you'd expect from ALPS.

[cutterline]

I think the dampening sort of killed it.  It was quiet like a MX blue and not as ultra-tactile as you'd expect from ALPS.

Have you tried all of them or just the clicky one (as you mentioned mx blue)?
Maybe the dampening can be removed (cut) fully/partially to aim the alps goodness?

Also I watched, they modded the clicky leaf part (responsible for alps tactility) for LED, maybe that part can be exchanged with alps (or its clone) as well?

[loud_asian]

I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidence

[alienman82]

removed.

[loud_asian]

I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidence

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Fake alps cherry clone?  Those are actually nice

yuup been looking for this keyboard for a while now. TBH I really just want it for the caps, but I'll be super bummed if the keyboard comes in all mangled

[Joey Quinn]

I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens

[Mattr567]

Appreciate!!!!!!!

[Joey Quinn]

Striped Ambers and Ambers are the only alps switches I still really want to try.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

Striped Ambers and Ambers are the only alps switches I still really want to try.

I would both highly recommend both. I would go for SKCM Amber's first since there much easier to find. I've found that they best belong in a modern board.

Striped Amber's are fantastic too if you can find them. I wonder if you could replicate them with SKCL Green and SPRiT springs

[Joey Quinn]

I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens

For sure, I also owned both.  I would like to get some orange alps to compare as well, but I'm in no rush.

I haven't tried oranges yet but I have tried salmons and thought they were too light.

[nubbinator]

I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens

For sure, I also owned both.  I would like to get some orange alps to compare as well, but I'm in no rush.

Something between Orange and Green would be perfect for me.  The Browns feel awful to me.  I really can't stand them.

[PRISONER 24601]

Orange is even lighter than Salmon, actually.

I regret selling my only tactile SKCM brown board several years ago. Those switches are perfect. Maybe it's that dummy switchplate they use instead of a tactile leaf; maybe it's the plastic in the stems or the dry lube they're painted with, or maybe it's all those factors working in concert... I don't know why SKCM tactile browns are so inimitable, but I've used hundreds of ALPS keyboards over the years and nothing comes close to browns. Orange is in the same ballpark, and there are a few varieties I've never tried (like SKCM greens and fresh, unused ambers), but IMHO browns are in a league of their own. I'd really love to find some NOS browns for my first custom build

[chyros]

I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidence

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It's actually pretty damn nice ;) .

[mike52787]

I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens

I agree... Also, SKCM cream > SKCM brown

[mike52787]

I'll probably be roasted for this opinion but after trying both SKCM Browns > SKCM Greens

For sure, I also owned both.  I would like to get some orange alps to compare as well, but I'm in no rush.

Something between Orange and Green would be perfect for me.  The Browns feel awful to me.  I really can't stand them.

SKCM Undampened cream from NeXT non adb boards falls into that window. It is a fantastic switch.

[mike52787]

I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidence

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holy **** does that board have the cherry profile doubleshot alps caps? if so Im jealous...

[chyros]

I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidence

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holy **** does that board have the cherry profile doubleshot alps caps? if so Im jealous...

Yes, should do.

[alh84001]

I've got something special coming in the mail, but the packaging doesn't inspire much confidence

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That looks familiar :)
(Don't worry, it's all good inside.)

[happylacquer]

Turns out this board doesnt have orange alps like i thought it did?!?

can an alps professional help me know exactly which switch this is? cant tell if cream or white



GREETZ

[chyros]

Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.

[happylacquer]

Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.

yes it is, much obliged my man

[MandrewDavis]

I really don't know how E3E managed to hand drill LED holes in enough switches for a G80-3000 in addition to the other two Duck boards.  Just did enough for a numpad and I wanted to rip my toenails out.

Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.

[chyros]

Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.

yes it is, much obliged my man

In that case you never could've gotten orange Alps because they never came with them AFAIK. The very earliest ones had salmon, but the majority used cream or white damp.

[alienman82]

removed.

[happylacquer]

Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.

yes it is, much obliged my man

In that case you never could've gotten orange Alps because they never came with them AFAIK. The very earliest ones had salmon, but the majority used cream or white damp.

TIL salmon and orange aren't the same 

[mike52787]

Is that an AEKII? Probably white dampened ones then.

yes it is, much obliged my man

In that case you never could've gotten orange Alps because they never came with them AFAIK. The very earliest ones had salmon, but the majority used cream or white damp.

TIL salmon and orange aren't the same 

Salmon is a second gen switch, with short switchplates, while orange is a first gen switch with tall switchplates. If you wanted an AEKII with salmons, you need to find one with a 1989 copyright date on the label.  Oranges can only come in M0115s, M0116/8s, some apple IIGS keyboards, and some wang 725-3770/3771 boards.

[alh84001]

And Apple IIc Plus

[E3E]

I really don't know how E3E managed to hand drill LED holes in enough switches for a G80-3000 in addition to the other two Duck boards.  Just did enough for a numpad and I wanted to rip my toenails out.

Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.

It is a pain, definitely a pain. Given the RSI issues I was facing, doing that drilling for the NCR build--the combination of hand drilling + insertion of the LEDs into the board had my hand aching and made my vision all fuzzy for a good couple of minutes because of how I had to squint my eyes to focus on the holes so I could properly insert the LEDs.

I also shaved the LEDs' flanges off to make insertion easier, since it looks like LEDs are meant to slot into the switches as opposed to just be inserted. A dremel and a tool vise made quick(er) work of that issue.

[MandrewDavis]

I really don't know how E3E managed to hand drill LED holes in enough switches for a G80-3000 in addition to the other two Duck boards.  Just did enough for a numpad and I wanted to rip my toenails out.

Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.

It is a pain, definitely a pain. Given the RSI issues I was facing, doing that drilling for the NCR build--the combination of hand drilling + insertion of the LEDs into the board had my hand aching and made my vision all fuzzy for a good couple of minutes because of how I had to squint my eyes to focus on the holes so I could properly insert the LEDs.

I also shaved the LEDs' flanges off to make insertion easier, since it looks like LEDs are meant to slot into the switches as opposed to just be inserted. A dremel and a tool vise made quick(er) work of that issue.

I can definitively see that being an issue. Also, I'm having a hard time finding the actuation force of SKCL browns, would you happen to know it? Realized SPRiT's measurements for alps springs are based off actuation force, not bottom out.

[E3E]

I really don't know how E3E managed to hand drill LED holes in enough switches for a G80-3000 in addition to the other two Duck boards.  Just did enough for a numpad and I wanted to rip my toenails out.

Also, I ordered some 70cN springs from SPRiT so I can attempt to replicate SKCL Browns using the leftover SKCL yellows Nubs sent me.

It is a pain, definitely a pain. Given the RSI issues I was facing, doing that drilling for the NCR build--the combination of hand drilling + insertion of the LEDs into the board had my hand aching and made my vision all fuzzy for a good couple of minutes because of how I had to squint my eyes to focus on the holes so I could properly insert the LEDs.

I also shaved the LEDs' flanges off to make insertion easier, since it looks like LEDs are meant to slot into the switches as opposed to just be inserted. A dremel and a tool vise made quick(er) work of that issue.

I can definitively see that being an issue. Also, I'm having a hard time finding the actuation force of SKCL browns, would you happen to know it? Realized SPRiT's measurements for alps springs are based off actuation force, not bottom out.

I'm pretty sure it was 60 cf, but it might be 65 cf.

[MandrewDavis]

Saw this earlier today. One step closer to Alps PBT caps.

Good news...

I'm in China now, and have signed off on the Black PBT caps.  We are arranging the production schedule now.

We'll start with raw blanks in Black, and then do Black with White legends.

I'm waiting on White PBT samples next, but those shouldn't take long.

Anymore feedback anyone wants to provide, now is the time...  :-)