So, Covid

[tp4tissue]

If anything it is worse than ever. Thanksgiving brought out the stupids in droves.

/Genuine worry.

[Leslieann]

Apparently we have a vaccine

Yeah one was tested on... 90 people.
Another was tested for 10 whole days.

I'm not anti-vax by any means but hold back just a bit before jumping in with both feet. Governments are anxious to get this and and big pharma isn't above killing people for profits.

[Sintpinty]

another lockdown in toronto

[tp4tissue]

Apparently we have a vaccine

Yeah one was tested on... 90 people.
Another was tested for 10 whole days.

I'm not anti-vax by any means but hold back just a bit before jumping in with both feet. Governments are anxious to get this and and big pharma isn't above killing people for profits.

It's 94 cases of covid infection (in the trial group, of 38,955 people),  Pfizer,  allegedly more than 90% effective.

Tp4 never gets the system update day 1,  but this seeeeeems reasonably safe.

[Leslieann]

Apparently we have a vaccine

Yeah one was tested on... 90 people.
Another was tested for 10 whole days.

I'm not anti-vax by any means but hold back just a bit before jumping in with both feet. Governments are anxious to get this and and big pharma isn't above killing people for profits.

It's 94 cases of covid infection (in the trial group, of 38,955 people),  Pfizer,  allegedly more than 90% effective.

Tp4 never gets the system update day 1,  but this seeeeeems reasonably safe.

Pfizer is the one the Brits authorized after just 10 days.

Not so sure about that 94 thing, maybe it was the other company, not sure.
Too much info, not enough science.

[suicidal_orange]

It's OK, they're giving the first 10 million doses to the elderly first so by the time I'm offered one a thorough test will have been carried out on those most volunerable.  To me not giving it to those caring for the infected suggests they don't fully trust it and maybe they're even hoping to cut state pension expenditure to offset corona costs.

[Findecanor]

My home town is the second worst city in Europe in COVID cases / population. Yay!

[fohat.digs]

Although I am over 65 and could probably get an early shot, I will wait. I am careful and don't interact with the public very much, so I consider myself pretty low-risk.

The flip side is that although testing is very limited so far, a couple of months from now there will be millions of vaccinated people (aka incidental test subjects - including many challenged ones) all over the world and we will know soon enough what works and what doesn't.

[tp4tissue]

We could see 4K/day in 3 weeks.

[tp4tissue]

soo.. they is projecting 450,000 deaths by february.  i mean, why do they 450, just to not make it 500 ?

[yui]

soo.. they is projecting 450,000 deaths by february.  i mean, why do they 450, just to not make it 500 ?

want to see the world burn a bit more? i think 450 is plenty, making it 400 would be a better objective than 500 if you want a round number

[jamster]

Serious question for those in the US- how do people there (not GHers, more of a 'general population' thing) square what's happening in the US with the rest of the world?

Other countries range from doing badly but usually still better (Canada next door with half the death rate per capita, a third of the infection rate) to Australia (pretty much totally under control).

Are other countries being used as points of comparison at all, or is the rest of the world being largely ignored in the media with all the focus being internal?

[fohat.digs]

how do people there square what's happening in the US with the rest of the world?

Regular people are freaking out in fear and anger.

Republicans ignore the rest of the world. "Nationalism" and all that ....

[tp4tissue]

Serious question for those in the US- how do people there (not GHers, more of a 'general population' thing) square what's happening in the US with the rest of the world?

Other countries range from doing badly but usually still better (Canada next door with half the death rate per capita, a third of the infection rate) to Australia (pretty much totally under control).

Are other countries being used as points of comparison at all, or is the rest of the world being largely ignored in the media with all the focus being internal?

Modern Life is full of distractions and hyper-palatables.

It's like living through the dark ages inside a brothel,  it's bad and crappy all around, but at least you've got the brothel.

Life goes on.

In relation to the rest of the world there's nothing to square, we owe no one, we are paying for this lesson in blood. Inefficient, but it is what it is, hughmahnns are like this.

[tp4tissue]

[Darthbaggins]

Serious question for those in the US- how do people there (not GHers, more of a 'general population' thing) square what's happening in the US with the rest of the world?

Other countries range from doing badly but usually still better (Canada next door with half the death rate per capita, a third of the infection rate) to Australia (pretty much totally under control).

Are other countries being used as points of comparison at all, or is the rest of the world being largely ignored in the media with all the focus being internal?

Other than them still passing the blame to China for all of this, I have to remind my family the US had a part to play in this and have failed.  I tend to not watch the news just due to it will cause un-needed stress and I have enough to deal with - normally tend to stick to printed/typed media so I can gather my own view by reading multiple sources.  Over-all the media just focuses on the US in itself and tries to find somewhere worse to compare to (kind of hard to do now). 
I will not be in the initial wave of vaxxers as I want to see how it plays out and if it has some side effects that cause further instability.

[tp4tissue]

I will not be in the initial wave of vaxxers as I want to see how it plays out and if it has some side effects that cause further instability.

This may not be a good plan,  we may be young enough to survive, but we're also capable of passing on the virus without the vaccine.  Dominos.

[jamster]

Other than them still passing the blame to China for all of this, I have to remind my family the US had a part to play in this and have failed.  I tend to not watch the news just due to it will cause un-needed stress and I have enough to deal with - normally tend to stick to printed/typed media so I can gather my own view by reading multiple sources.  Over-all the media just focuses on the US in itself and tries to find somewhere worse to compare to (kind of hard to do now). 
I will not be in the initial wave of vaxxers as I want to see how it plays out and if it has some side effects that cause further instability.

Thanks. Yeah, I have also been paying less attention to the news for similar reasons.

In the sources that I do read, the comparisons cover the gamut. There's the Italy/Belgium/Brazil "why did it go so wrong" angles as well as looking at countries that have really gotten it under control at various stages (Australia/NZ/Taiwan/Vientnam) and then those which have oscillated (South Korea, Singapore).

News regarding the US has been so totally out there for so long, that I (and I suspect a lot of other people around the world) lump it into the 'too hard to fathom' box.

[noisyturtle]

People complaining during the pandemic that these rules are infringing on their daily freedoms in America were oddly silent post 9/11 when the groundwork for Operation Freedom Removal was first laid out. Now that it is for their own safety and not their privacy at stake they give a ****, just so long as the blame can be shifted to anyone who isn't them.

[NoteMakoti]

Serious question for those in the US- how do people there (not GHers, more of a 'general population' thing) square what's happening in the US with the rest of the world?

Other countries range from doing badly but usually still better (Canada next door with half the death rate per capita, a third of the infection rate) to Australia (pretty much totally under control).

Are other countries being used as points of comparison at all, or is the rest of the world being largely ignored in the media with all the focus being internal?

We've become aware of the fact that the government has lost its ability to function, and we're all processing that in different ways. Some people think the problem is Trump (and it largely is), some people are blaming China (as if COVID was this external enemy outside of our control). Some are just pretending it's not happening at all, that it's already over, or that it'll be over by February.

[yui]

peoples, if no one go to get vaccinated your plan to wait and see how it works will not work, will it? some will need to go and make the leap, and frankly for the peace of mind i would rather be in the early vaccines, although, being young, i do not think i will be in the priority lists... so far i have been getting vaccinated for all the majors new epidemics and did not yet got sick or died
all you anti-anti-vaccers until you get asked to get vaccinated...

[fohat.digs]

Some people think the problem is Trump (and it largely is)

NO.

Trump is merely the culmination of a 60-year campaign by the Radical Right, as laid out in the late-1950s in the wake of Brown vs Board of Education by James McGill Buchanan and Gordon Tullock, to essentially dismantle the Federal government.

Their thesis was that the sole function of government is to protect property rights. The unspoken corollary of that notion is that anything else that a government does requires financing and thus taxes, and that it is the DUTY of the government to PROTECT the wealthy from having to pay taxes (aka "taking" their "property").

Recent administrations have developed robust response plans for pandemics and stockpiled supplies, but the current administration LITERALLY tossed the plan into the garbage and disbanded the pandemic response unit as a waste of money.

https://apnews.com/article/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

[Darthbaggins]

I will not be in the initial wave of vaxxers as I want to see how it plays out and if it has some side effects that cause further instability.

This may not be a good plan,  we may be young enough to survive, but we're also capable of passing on the virus without the vaccine.  Dominos.

I was thinking in terms of early side-effects (28 Days later, I am Legend comes to mind).  Even though I doubt those type of effects would take place but still would rather sit on the side of caution on a seemingly "free" vaccination handed out by the government that took poor steps to prevent or slow the spread/process.

[tp4tissue]

peoples, if no one go to get vaccinated your plan to wait and see how it works will not work, will it? some will need to go and make the leap, and frankly for the peace of mind i would rather be in the early vaccines, although, being young, i do not think i will be in the priority lists... so far i have been getting vaccinated for all the majors new epidemics and did not yet got sick or died
all you anti-anti-vaccers until you get asked to get vaccinated...

It's at the point where pretty much EVERYONE needs to go, because if we wait and see, we can breach 500k deaths

[noisyturtle]

I will not be in the initial wave of vaxxers as I want to see how it plays out and if it has some side effects that cause further instability.

This may not be a good plan,  we may be young enough to survive, but we're also capable of passing on the virus without the vaccine.  Dominos.

I was thinking in terms of early side-effects (28 Days later, I am Legend comes to mind).  Even though I doubt those type of effects would take place but still would rather sit on the side of caution on a seemingly "free" vaccination handed out by the government that took poor steps to prevent or slow the spread/process.

This exactly the sort of mentality that will let the virus continue to run rampant. Everyone I know says they are going to wait, so if no one gets vaxxed we will all still continue to die. Right or left- everyone is Selfish.

[tp4tissue]

This exactly the sort of mentality that will let the virus continue to run rampant. Everyone I know says they are going to wait, so if no one gets vaxxed we will all still continue to die. Right or left- everyone is Selfish.

It's not necessary to get judgey, Tp4 has also seen I am Legend.

[Leslieann]

The people who are are saying you should take it have dedicated their lives to this, studied it.
The people sowing discontent are Karen on Facebook, who isn't qualified to even discuss medical science but also may actual be Ivan In Russia.

Seriously, consider your sources.
I'm not saying be first in line but not listening to the experts is what got is into this mess and is very unlikely to get us out of it either. Besides, you probably won't even have the chance to be the first to get it anyhow if you live in the US as supplies are going to be limited. Chalk up another win for our glorious leader.

[yui]

to be fair big pharma has proven multiple times in the bast that they are ready to kill or poison millions to get more money, some of those companies are even still operating today, but here the one that slips would have so much blood on its hand that i do not think they could recover. although those are my thought and i may be wrong.

[Leslieann]

to be fair big pharma has proven multiple times in the bast that they are ready to kill or poison millions to get more money, some of those companies are even still operating today, but here the one that slips would have so much blood on its hand that i do not think they could recover. although those are my thought and i may be wrong.

I don't trust big pharma as fa as I can throw them but there are non-big pharma medical experts experts you can trust.

[yui]

to be fair big pharma has proven multiple times in the bast that they are ready to kill or poison millions to get more money, some of those companies are even still operating today, but here the one that slips would have so much blood on its hand that i do not think they could recover. although those are my thought and i may be wrong.

I don't trust big pharma as fa as I can throw them but there are non-big pharma medical experts experts you can trust.

i was just saying that the distrust for the vaccination does not come from nowhere, i will still try to get it as early as i can, because as soon i am out of the potential vector pool the better i will feel, and either way, even if the vaccine kills me, it will achieve that so win-win
                                                                       (^that part is a joke, i'd rather not die from the vaccine, for those who do not understand that humor)

[tp4tissue]

either way, even if the vaccine kills me, it will achieve that so win-win
                                                                       (^that part is a joke, i'd rather not die from the vaccine, for those who do not understand that humor)

You would've gotten to play Cyberpunk2077 , so it's a gud' time to die, life's pekd.

[yui]

You would've gotten to play Cyberpunk2077 , so it's a gud' time to die, life's pekd.

well no, i will not, i decided to make gifts instead of buying a new pc, and my current gaming pc will not run it above about 5 fps but i do not really care

[suicidal_orange]

Finally a little sense - Christmas is now just one day of spreading the virus rather than five.  It's too late now everyone's been out buying presents for weeks but it's a nice thought I guess.

[tp4tissue]

Finally a little sense - Christmas is now just one day of spreading the virus rather than five.  It's too late now everyone's been out buying presents for weeks but it's a nice thought I guess.

Still no sale on any gud' pianos, sigh...

[noisyturtle]

Took the bus grocery shopping today. At the bus station was a man, maskless, sweating and coughing uncontrollably. Hacking without covering his mouth, spitting his disgusting snot onto the ground of the depot. Obviously very sick. It became apparent this idiot was going to be on the same bus as I. When it pulled up he dug a filthy mask out of his jacket pocket which he wore for about 15 seconds between boarding the bus and sitting down. He immediately removed it and started hacking again. After the bus pulled away he got up and began going down the row shutting all the windows. The driver came over the com and told him he cannot do that, it is against policy and safety regulations. "**** you ***** I'm freezing!" he yelled, violently kicking a seat. Not wanting to risk physical harm from this psychopath she didn't say anything else. No one did. Everyone on the bus simply exchanges silent but worried glances as he went back to his seat rambling a string of curse words loud enough to drown out the engine.

I am so saddened by this. My faith in people was already low, but this really was a depressing display.

Glad I was double-masked and gloved up. Usually don't go that far but something told me today before going out I should.

[tp4tissue]

Part of it is that guy's fault of course.

The other part is, well, socio-economic inequality.   

Etiquette, common-sense, hygiene comes at a COST.  If the rich absorbs all the wealth, these societal dregs are a natural outcome.

You shouldn't lose faith in humanity, the truly abhorrent thing here is Unchecked Hedonism and CAPITALISM.

[jamster]

Part of it is that guy's fault of course.

The other part is, well, socio-economic inequality.   

Etiquette, common-sense, hygiene comes at a COST.  If the rich absorbs all the wealth, these societal dregs are a natural outcome.

You shouldn't lose faith in humanity, the truly abhorrent thing here is Unchecked Hedonism and CAPITALISM.

There's more to it than that. I have spent a fair bit of time in third world countries where the poor are still totally pleasant and civilised for the most part.

Or the Philippines- massive inequality there, but people are generally great, and they are also managing to deal with this pandemic well despite a huge population spread out amongst challenging terrain, and an overall lack of resources.

[Leslieann]

Part of it is that guy's fault of course.

You guys need to stop thinking like this.
Some people do bring it on themselves, but don't think you're safe because you don't do that, you can easily get it from anywhere.

[yui]

Part of it is that guy's fault of course.

You guys need to stop thinking like this.
Some people do bring it on themselves, but don't think you're safe because you don't do that, you can easily get it from anywhere.

i will 2nd leslie on that, every-time i went into the red it was mostly my own fault, although sometime helped by dishonest peoples, but peoples hate to admit it can even be their fault and instead act like ****heads to everyone... and even wealthy peoples do not wear the mask, i had to argue with a coworker yesterday for 2 minutes because he did not want to wear the mask, even though those mask are given to us for free, 2 per day, so no not everything is because of inequality and lack of access.

[fohat.digs]

didn't say anything else. No one did.

Having had a hateful, selfish, infantile leader in this country seems to have somehow enabled too many people in this country who harbor the same attitudes to display them in public, regularly and with seeming impunity.

The proper answer is that the riders and driver should have thrown him off the bus, but of course no one was willing to even touch him.

[yui]

didn't say anything else. No one did.

Having had a hateful, selfish, infantile leader in this country seems to have somehow enabled too many people in this country who harbor the same attitudes to display them in public, regularly and with seeming impunity.

The proper answer is that the riders and driver should have thrown him off the bus, but of course no one was willing to even touch him.

don't you have laws against public indecency? cops exists for a reason, seeing red and blue may make him calm down a fair bit

[jamster]

didn't say anything else. No one did.

Having had a hateful, selfish, infantile leader in this country seems to have somehow enabled too many people in this country who harbor the same attitudes to display them in public, regularly and with seeming impunity.

The proper answer is that the riders and driver should have thrown him off the bus, but of course no one was willing to even touch him.

don't you have laws against public indecency? cops exists for a reason, seeing red and blue may make him calm down a fair bit

The analogy to public indecency laws and people insisting that masks impinge on their 'freedoms' has been made many times, and the issue still hasn't gotten anywhere.

[yui]

yes but those mask are mandatory, at least here they are, and it was not the only thing he was doing wrong from the description, drug lords have been taken down for tax fraud, that kind of a guy could be for verbal violence or attempted vandalism (ok, i do not know if you can be in trouble for trying and failing to break something, as you failed, but worth a shot)

[noisyturtle]

Watching CA after the holidays and it is becoming extremely difficult to remain sympathetic in the face of people being blatantly retarded.

[Leslieann]

Beware shaming people for something they may have hand no hand in.
You have no idea how a person got it, you also can catch it through no fault of your own and for all you know you could be next. Are you going to shame a health care worker who got it while trying to save a patient? Or a kid who got it from a parent? Just because someone caught it doesn't mean they were careless.

As for California, have you not been watching other states?
Considering the population and scale, compared to the rest of the country it could be a lot worse. News focused on California because of the population size, but you can't tell tell me everyone else stayed home for the holidays. I've lived in the south and the midwest, there's no damn way in hell they all stayed home because government told them to.

[noisyturtle]

Covid is the new driving. Any random idiot out there can just kill you but now with the added convenience of not having to go 60mph to do it.

[tp4tissue]

Beware shaming people for something they may have hand no hand in.
You have no idea how a person got it, you also can catch it through no fault of your own and for all you know you could be next. Are you going to shame a health care worker who got it while trying to save a patient? Or a kid who got it from a parent? Just because someone caught it doesn't mean they were careless.

As for California, have you not been watching other states?
Considering the population and scale, compared to the rest of the country it could be a lot worse. News focused on California because of the population size, but you can't tell tell me everyone else stayed home for the holidays. I've lived in the south and the midwest, there's no damn way in hell they all stayed home because government told them to.

Well, we know at least 1 in 2 adults are not to be trusted with any decision above what's for lunch.

[fohat.digs]

you also can catch it through no fault of your own

The concept of "herd immunity" is talked about but the opposite side is a sort of "herd contagion"

As long as the R number is >1 we will not be out of the woods, and even then there will be a huge reservoir of infected people to work through.

[tp4tissue]

Mutation is the problem now.   If this goes around like the flu after a couple years.   Fury road here we come.

We have to go whole food plant based immediately. This is urgent.

[jamster]

The concept of "herd immunity" is talked about but the opposite side is a sort of "herd contagion"

As long as the R number is >1 we will not be out of the woods, and even then there will be a huge reservoir of infected people to work through.

That is a much better way of putting it. I find it hard to fathom many of the contorted, self-serving, dumbass/flat-out-evil (depending on how charitable one is feeling), ideas that have come out of this pandemic. Reading about the UK government tap dance its way around the 'herd immunity' idea was a good example.

Reading about various countries and how their populations respond to the survey questions about willingness to take vaccines is the lastest 'WTF' issue.