Many GB's that are intended to be ran through Massdrop, are posted to IC as nothing more than a hype/promo post. This can happen in the massdrop sub. We've been selective about this in the past, but are now being black and white about it. If you're running it on massdrop, or you are linking to the poll so Massdrop will pick up the gb, then it goes in the Massdrop sub-forum. No more explaining actions to people, cut and dry.
The rules here are pretty lax on GB's, we let members decide to join or not with a cursory look by the mod team at first. Anyone can create an IC and run the GB through MD, therefore using geekhack for nothing more than advertisement.
Many GB's that are intended to be ran through Massdrop, are posted to IC as nothing more than a hype/promo post. This can happen in the massdrop sub. We've been selective about this in the past, but are now being black and white about it. If you're running it on massdrop, or you are linking to the poll so Massdrop will pick up the gb, then it goes in the Massdrop sub-forum. No more explaining actions to people, cut and dry.
The rules here are pretty lax on GB's, we let members decide to join or not with a cursory look by the mod team at first. Anyone can create an IC and run the GB through MD, therefore using geekhack for nothing more than advertisement.
If the intent from the beginning is to run the buy through Massdrop, I can sorta see why the mods would want the IC in the MD forum.Yes this is how we tackled the problem. The main purpose of an IC is to be an interest check and to gather opinions from the community to tweak something, so that it will appeal to as many as possible before starting a GB.
But, if the purpose of the "interest check" is to get feedback from the community to make changes about profile choices, key selection, which "kits" will have which keys, etc. then I think it belongs in the regular IC forum.
In other words, I don't think the issue is as black and white as it seems. It would be nice and tidy to say it is, but the reality is that probably it's not. And that grey area requires some judgement calls to be made.
If the intent from the beginning is to run the buy through Massdrop, I can sorta see why the mods would want the IC in the MD forum.Yes this is how we tackled the problem. The main purpose of an IC is to be an interest check and to gather opinions from the community to tweak something, so that it will appeal to as many as possible before starting a GB.
But, if the purpose of the "interest check" is to get feedback from the community to make changes about profile choices, key selection, which "kits" will have which keys, etc. then I think it belongs in the regular IC forum.
In other words, I don't think the issue is as black and white as it seems. It would be nice and tidy to say it is, but the reality is that probably it's not. And that grey area requires some judgement calls to be made.
However with these MD-threads, the sets are already finalized and the IC is only to create hype for them to vote on massdrop, and therefore we think it's more fitting to place it in the massdrop sub-forum.
Edit: Just realized I basically typed everything jd already described :-[ :-[
I see, I haven't looked deep into this particular case. I see he looks for discussion on the MiTolet set, but that the Pulse Set is already finalized and on massdrop voting page. If I understood that correctly, I'd think that he should split the topics, creating an IC for the Mitolet set but that the Pulse Set should be in the Massdrop-subforum.If the intent from the beginning is to run the buy through Massdrop, I can sorta see why the mods would want the IC in the MD forum.Yes this is how we tackled the problem. The main purpose of an IC is to be an interest check and to gather opinions from the community to tweak something, so that it will appeal to as many as possible before starting a GB.
But, if the purpose of the "interest check" is to get feedback from the community to make changes about profile choices, key selection, which "kits" will have which keys, etc. then I think it belongs in the regular IC forum.
In other words, I don't think the issue is as black and white as it seems. It would be nice and tidy to say it is, but the reality is that probably it's not. And that grey area requires some judgement calls to be made.
However with these MD-threads, the sets are already finalized and the IC is only to create hype for them to vote on massdrop, and therefore we think it's more fitting to place it in the massdrop sub-forum.
Edit: Just realized I basically typed everything jd already described :-[ :-[
But with the recent PuLSE R3 IC, I don't think everything is set in stone yet. It seems like he wants feedback to shape the buy...maybe?
Thus, the confusion.
My opinion:
That's a ****ty policy. The purpose of interest checks is to generate hype. Hype and interest are interchangeable concepts. So in that regard, every interest check is a "hype/promo post". Your statement is an empty contradiction.
This is little more than sanctioned mod bias against Massdrop. SAD!
As of right now IC is in a weird spot where it's used as both a hype-creator and a place where you gather info from the community. The intention of the IC forum was to gather info but it's importance has shifted over the years. This change is not due to us disliking external sites, but rather us figuring out how the IC section should be ran.
The way we do things are different, there are tons of new manufacturers, artisans and vendors. However one thing that isn't different is the layout and ruleset of GH.
I sort of understand why he's doing this, and it's probably related to this topic:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=89079.msg2525547#msg2525547
I don't want to draw assumptions, but I'm under the impression he's biased because I didn't "move the the thread of the Laser interest check to the Group Buy section" when it became a group buy, as if I had powers to do that. How and why would I even do this, only to have it subsequently moved further because it was a "MD group buy"?
Why is Rebel SA and Electric GMK even in this list? :confused:
I said that it would be my last post because I can only reply with my personal opinion rather than what the mod group thinks as a whole. Therefore I thought it would be more constructive to do a post later on, sorry if it came out wrong. (I have been a mod for less then a week).
You said this was your last post related to this topic, like it is what is, we wont listen your concerns, covering ears with both hands. I think all moderators are moderators because they volunteered, you're not forced to be here. So please act accordingly and try to listen to the users you moderate to.
I can see your IC just fine Mito. Looks like it is in its proper place, it will be a massdrop set, will it not?
You can't have the active thread for a group buy in interest checks, that's always been the rule...
You can create a new thread in the group buy subforum, or report the IC to be moved, but you neglected to do either.
I can see your IC just fine Mito. Looks like it is in its proper place, it will be a massdrop set, will it not?
I can see your IC just fine Mito. Looks like it is in its proper place, it will be a massdrop set, will it not?
Will Black Lotus be a Massdrop set?
https://mechkeys.ca/products/gmk-black-lotus-gb
You can't have the active thread for a group buy in interest checks, that's always been the rule...
You can create a new thread in the group buy subforum, or report the IC to be moved, but you neglected to do either.
i cant speak on that, have no idea about that set - was just talking about pulse :blank:
I can see your IC just fine Mito. Looks like it is in its proper place, it will be a massdrop set, will it not?
Will Black Lotus be a Massdrop set?
https://mechkeys.ca/products/gmk-black-lotus-gb
To be honest what happened is that I couldn't find the LOCK button and eventually gave up. He could have locked the thread or moved it himself though (if I'm not mistaken), I tried to close the thread but couldn't find a way to do it. He also sent me a PM as you can see below:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/HV8oCSF.png)
But the whole project was already long gone by that time and I didn't have the proper OP. At the end of the day, just a lot of labor and things that could have been solved easily. He messaged me literally on New Year, I wasn't very active that time nor early 2018 because of holidays and all the stuff.
Also, as you can see here my modus operandi is to indeed follow the rules and lock the thread once the GB is live (see context and date), but for the Laser thread I couldn't find the button, everything rushed by and things unfortunately resulted in this situation we are witnessing.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90669.msg2468638#msg2468638
So, since Pulse SA - R3 is an actual interest check, that just happens to have a link to a Massdrop poll, can it be moved back into the main IC forum now, please?
So, since Pulse SA - R3 is an actual interest check, that just happens to have a link to a Massdrop poll, can it be moved back into the main IC forum now, please?
Along with everything else, one would hope? Serika is also an actual interest check, as Space Cadet, as is Black Lotus, as is Rebel. The latter is not super active of late but Pwner is actively working on making it a reality and he's not set on using Massdrop as its means, the poll linked in the 1st post is like 3 years old.
So, since Pulse SA - R3 is an actual interest check, that just happens to have a link to a Massdrop poll, can it be moved back into the main IC forum now, please?
I go to GH IC section to actually check for stuff that pique my interests, not the vendors' subforums.
Honestly I'm happy for anything we can do to disenfranchise MassDrop at this point.
I'm not happy with how they handle things.
I am in no way saying that that's why the geekhack forum is doing this. I'm just saying why I'm happy it's being doneHonestly I'm happy for anything we can do to disenfranchise MassDrop at this point.
I'm not happy with how they handle things.
If there is a feeling of this, that is fine. Many people feel that way, and want to crush Massdrop. But at least be open about why you're doing things. MD Polls are just that- polls. Many sets have changed from that time with proper justification for the change.
Call a spade a spade, and be up front about what you're doing and why.
I am in no way saying that that's why the geekhack forum is doing this. I'm just saying why I'm happy it's being doneHonestly I'm happy for anything we can do to disenfranchise MassDrop at this point.
I'm not happy with how they handle things.
If there is a feeling of this, that is fine. Many people feel that way, and want to crush Massdrop. But at least be open about why you're doing things. MD Polls are just that- polls. Many sets have changed from that time with proper justification for the change.
Call a spade a spade, and be up front about what you're doing and why.
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Hey mods, surely you're monitoring the thread/section (if you're not then we have an even bigger problem), how about we actually start listening to community feedback, facing the facts and just revert things back to how they were? You can revisit this faux "solution" at a later stage once you actually make up your mind as for what you want to do with ICs and once other vendors actually get their threads moved to their sub-forums instead of ostracising Massdrop for no valid reason.
You had your experiment, maybe the timing just isn't right and it's okay to be wrong. I think we can all agree with the fact that if this were to be in the IC forum this would be at least 5 pages long by now and instead its gotten like 1 reply a day. Just let it go, all you're doing it retracting attention from Geekhack since everyone just goes to MD to discuss this instead.
We don't need a full month or however long to gather data to have definite proof that the literal only reason you wouldn't revert this change would be because you don't wanna give in and admit it's a ****ed up thing to do.
Cross posting from Pulse thread.
The obvious solution was already in place. The vendor forums should just be for:
- If a known vendor was doing an IC for a product they would be selling on their site
- If a product hits a GB stage/gets assigned a definitive launch date for the GB
Thanks to how GH worked, it was without question the best place for IC's and thus a huge part of why it remains so popular.
Interest checks are all on the same level, in my opinion. Nothing really is set in stone, that is why it is an IC. The active ones would stay at the top, the silly/bad/no interest ones just sank into oblivion. This also helped the community as a whole get excited about the best sets, and thus make for better community buys. GH isn't selling anything (outside of some incredible >>DEALS<<) so I don't see why where an item sells is of any concern for ICs, or GH leadership for that matter.
There is just no actual logic behind this move. Seems like a few individuals are catering the forum to meet their agenda, moderating and flexing power just for the sake of moderating and flexing power, or because leadership is just entirely out of touch with the community utilizing the site.
The obvious solution was already in place. The vendor forums should just be for:There is literally no way for me to agree with this more.
- If a known vendor was doing an IC for a product they would be selling on their site
- If a product hits a GB stage/gets assigned a definitive launch date for the GB
Thanks to how GH worked, it was without question the best place for IC's and thus a huge part of why it remains so popular.
Interest checks are all on the same level, in my opinion. Nothing really is set in stone, that is why it is an IC. The active ones would stay at the top, the silly/bad/no interest ones just sank into oblivion. This also helped the community as a whole get excited about the best sets, and thus make for better community buys. GH isn't selling anything (outside of some incredible >>DEALS<<) so I don't see why where an item sells is of any concern for ICs, or GH leadership for that matter.
There is just no actual logic behind this move. Seems like a few individuals are catering the forum to meet their agenda, moderating and flexing power just for the sake of moderating and flexing power, or because leadership is just entirely out of touch with the community utilizing the site.
The active ones would stay at the top, the silly/bad/no interest ones just sank into oblivion.
There is just no actual logic behind this move. Seems like a few individuals are catering the forum to meet their agenda, moderating and flexing power just for the sake of moderating and flexing power, or because leadership is just entirely out of touch with the community utilizing the site.
The obvious solution was already in place. The vendor forums should just be for:
- If a known vendor was doing an IC for a product they would be selling on their site
- If a product hits a GB stage/gets assigned a definitive launch date for the GB
Thanks to how GH worked, it was without question the best place for IC's and thus a huge part of why it remains so popular.
Interest checks are all on the same level, in my opinion. Nothing really is set in stone, that is why it is an IC. The active ones would stay at the top, the silly/bad/no interest ones just sank into oblivion. This also helped the community as a whole get excited about the best sets, and thus make for better community buys. GH isn't selling anything (outside of some incredible >>DEALS<<) so I don't see why where an item sells is of any concern for ICs, or GH leadership for that matter.
There is just no actual logic behind this move. Seems like a few individuals are catering the forum to meet their agenda, moderating and flexing power just for the sake of moderating and flexing power, or because leadership is just entirely out of touch with the community utilizing the site.
Cross posting from Pulse thread.
They did the ruling in the heat of the moment and even moved two threads (Serika and PuLSE) 6 hours prior to the moment the new rule was published. They perfectly know that Massdrop's subforum isn't prepared to handle ICs, GBs, and costumer support all at the same time and that mixing all of these topics doesn't make sense.
With that being said, I did some digging, and I expect all these threads to be moved at once to the Massdrop subforum too. These include keysets that are planned to run on Massdrop again (such as Danger Zone), have a Massdrop Poll on their OP, were done on Massdrop, or have Massdrop on the title.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68563.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91813.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=91039.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88662.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=89970.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88368.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88090.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74350.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71508.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90617.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88581.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=89079.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75607.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88344.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90669.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85186.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75963.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90044.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85623.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88383.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76006.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83969.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87875.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87275.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85706.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79693.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84129.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74452.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79722.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72086.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77442.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75345.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73175.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73748.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73348.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73067.0
Just so it is clear, you can appreciate from many of these threads that just because you include a Massdrop poll doesn't mean that your project will be ever complete. Here there are many projects that didn't make it, and that created hours and hours of discussion that helped to improve future ICs.