IBM 1386887 (3179 terminal) keyboard conversion

[Shawn Stanford]

Well, the Blue Cube arrived over the weekend and I plugged it in first thing at work and the keys still repeat. I guess I'll take it home and mess with it there for now. I didn't set any jumpers on the controller - I'm not even sure there are any, so that's the first thing I'll look at when I get home.

[kishy]

Well, the Blue Cube arrived over the weekend and I plugged it in first thing at work and the keys still repeat. I guess I'll take it home and mess with it there for now. I didn't set any jumpers on the controller - I'm not even sure there are any, so that's the first thing I'll look at when I get home.

I'm inclined to believe it won't make a difference, but hopefully it will. As pointed out by IBMMuseum, possibly here or possibly on the vintage computer forum, where I have placed a jumper on B5, put it on B7 instead (all the others remain the same as I have shown however)

[IBMMuseum]

I'm inclined to believe it won't make a difference, but hopefully it will. As pointed out by IBMMuseum, possibly here or possibly on the vintage computer forum, where I have placed a jumper on B5, put it on B7 instead (all the others remain the same as I have shown however)

I´m more inclined to think John is most correct. IBM had jumpers in place for expansion of Keyboard IDs and lock LEDs, but never really followed through on implementation of the former (or it was directed at other markets, like the Japanese areas). The scancode set (and thus the reported Keyboard ID) is determined through some other method than the ID.

By some luck, your 56SX is partially satisfied (in the hardware identification) by the jumpers, but doesn´t get the scancode set correctly...

[microsoft windows]

I've got to get myself one of these 122-key terminal behemoths someday.

[sethstorm]

Lol, random. They're great fun though...it's like a 1391401 on crack.

Got one on order after seeing one favorably priced and seeing this guide.  Your documentation already seems to confirm that these boards are what you just said - 1391401's on crack.

I just hope for my sake that I get the wiring and pins right, despite it looking easy to wire up.

The only spare cable I have at the moment is attached to a sparsely documented and fitting NCR Decision Mate V keyboard(NCR H0150-STD1-01-17).  It has the ground and similar wire colors, just that it's soldered right on the board.  

I'd be using the metal AT->PS/2 barrel adapter that clickykeyboards sells, if that made any sense.  Would it do the right thing with the keys if I got the AT pins right?  Or would I be better off finding a proper PS/2 cable, even if it's horribly off in wire color?



sort of O/T note:
No, it's even more proprietary than your legendary terminal keyboards but has similar wire colors and labels right where it's soldered to the board.  But it has a nice AT-din style cable.  

Relevant pictures can be provided if wanted.  Yes, the circa 1983 NCR board looks surprisingly close to a Cherry in case format, but sadly has soldered low-profile spring switches and a proprietary controller that I've probably erased.

[kishy]

Got one on order after seeing one favorably priced and seeing this guide.  Your documentation already seems to confirm that these boards are what you just said - 1391401's on crack.

I just hope for my sake that I get the wiring and pins right, despite it looking easy to wire up.

The only spare cable I have at the moment is attached to a sparsely documented and fitting NCR Decision Mate V keyboard(NCR H0150-STD1-01-17).  It has the ground and similar wire colors, just that it's soldered right on the board.  

I'd be using the metal AT->PS/2 barrel adapter that clickykeyboards sells, if that made any sense.  Would it do the right thing with the keys if I got the AT pins right?  Or would I be better off finding a proper PS/2 cable, even if it's horribly off in wire color?



sort of O/T note:
No, it's even more proprietary than your legendary terminal keyboards but has similar wire colors and labels right where it's soldered to the board.  But it has a nice AT-din style cable.  

Relevant pictures can be provided if wanted.  Yes, the circa 1983 NCR board looks surprisingly close to a Cherry in case format, but sadly has soldered low-profile spring switches and a proprietary controller that I've probably erased.

Hi there

What part number are you expecting to get? I imagine you mean 1386887, perhaps the one I show links to on ebay from time to time (they're certainly priced alright)

The wiring, I must just be bad at explaining it. It's really quite simple but it's easy to get confused and mess it up if you misunderstand the way I've presented it. If you have any doubts just post and I'll get to it the same day or next.

I think the adapter you mentioned will be fine since it's just a dumb adapter; electrically it is the same thing as using a PS/2 cable to begin with. One of my two is done that way and works fine. Of course, for convenience you may want to consider just doing a PS/2 cable entirely if you'll never try to use it on a machine with an AT port.

If I could recommend something, go to a local thrift store or similar and try to find a cheap $2 keyboard. This gives you a nice length of cable that wouldn't be a big loss if it became unusable somehow during the mod (I can't see how it would, but it doesn't hurt to be safe).

Search for your keyboard on the forum. If nobody has struck up a thread before, start one with photos. People here love photos
Plus, if you start a thread, it gives you a place to organize info about conversions and the like. Is it possible it's XT? (I don't know the machine)

[sethstorm]

Hi there
What part number are you expecting to get? I imagine you mean 1386887, perhaps the one I show links to on ebay from time to time (they're certainly priced alright)

That's the one, and it's from one of puravida1881's ebay sales.

The wiring, I must just be bad at explaining it. It's really quite simple but it's easy to get confused and mess it up if you misunderstand the way I've presented it. If you have any doubts just post and I'll get to it the same day
or next.

Well, it's more of the mappings between the connectors, which you have good references to.  If I end up having to create a diagram of it (from berg strip end to PS/2 or AT connector) just to be sure, so be it.

I think the adapter you mentioned will be fine since it's just a dumb adapter; electrically it is the same thing as using a PS/2 cable to begin with. One of my two is done that way and works fine. Of course, for convenience you may want to consider just doing a PS/2 cable entirely if you'll never try to use it on a machine with an AT port.

If I could recommend something, go to a local thrift store or similar and try to find a cheap $2 keyboard. This gives you a nice length of cable that wouldn't be a big loss if it became unusable somehow during the mod (I can't see how it would, but it doesn't hurt to be safe).

Then it sounds like there's no problem at all.  Besides, my locality has a good deal of electronics surplus, so no problem finding the proverbial cheap keyboard.  To think of it, I might have a lot of the spare parts on hand.

[sethstorm]

I've gotten another 1386887 to work and map out keys - only thing missing is repeat.

However, one might want to make sure other things that remap the keyboard are not in the way - as they were doing so w/ mine.  Uninstalled them (Logitech Setpoint, Razer[yes...]) and now get all the keys that should respond.

[kishy]

I've gotten another 1386887 to work and map out keys - only thing missing is repeat.

However, one might want to make sure other things that remap the keyboard are not in the way - as they were doing so w/ mine.  Uninstalled them (Logitech Setpoint, Razer[yes...]) and now get all the keys that should respond.

Yay, another success story.

Interesting info about the "other software"...that's something we'll have to collectively work on (everyone active on this topic) documenting in detail. It's possible that the scancodes of funky extra keys don't get sent (at least not properly) when the software is running (that's what I would see the biggest issue being, at least).

[sethstorm]

Yay, another success story.

Interesting info about the "other software"...that's something we'll have to collectively work on (everyone active on this topic) documenting in detail. It's possible that the scancodes of funky extra keys don't get sent (at least not properly) when the software is running (that's what I would see the biggest issue being, at least).

I'd have to thank you for documenting the whole thing quite well.


I removed(as listed in Add/Remove Programs):
Logitech SetPoint
Razer Keyboard software

I'd mark both of those as suspect, especially setpoint, until there's further confirmation on how they affect layout.  Cmd15/16 and Cmd 11/12 required some strange keypresses to work if you want something of a known outcome for which to test that software.

As for good key remapping software:
You might want to try something like InputRemapper to bring back key repeat and better custom key bindings.  It does not interfere with Key Remapper afaik.  Installed it, rebooted, added a new(blank) remapping table, and it gave me repeating keys as well as not interfering with existing drivers/software.

Notes on the hardware conversion:
If berg strips/connector housings weren't so rare to have on hand at a moment's notice, things would be a bit better; I was able to find a substitute that works at the local electronics surplus store(2 3 pin low profile connectors).
At the worst, I can just cut an AT extension cable in half, put a strain relief on it, and then throw on the appropriate adapter.

[sethstorm]

While poking in the 2003 SP1 DDK to build the new driver, I noticed that there were a few differences in the API.  That is, to answer someone's question before, it is different - but not enough to result in a non-working

The diff did not apply cleanly, but I was able to hand-patch the pnpi8042 sample.  I ended up having to remove a lot of the (unused) reset code and the failedAllRepeat error check.

Attached is the resulting i8042prt.sys and the diff files for i8042prt.h and kbddep.c.  If there's any legal issues, I don't know of them (reading in this thread).  I merely wanted to prove that it is possible to get working results with a more recent DDK than the (now-unavailable) Windows 2000 DDK referred to by JohnElliott earlier in the thread.  

Aside from the modifications needed to get it to work, it is the same file with the same functionality.

I do plan to look further and see if things can be remapped around to their rightful places (and then some), perhaps to solve that Dup / Blank key issue.


Tested:
Vista x86 w/ InputRemapper (so you can get those nice key repeats).

Note:
As a bit of a recommendation, I'd grab the Windows 2003 SP1 DDK off of the Archive section of Windows Connect download section (for the newly named WDK) while it's still there.  It's the only one that has not dropped Windows 2000 support AFAIK.  It shouldn't require a subscription to MSDN to get it.

[kishy]

Would love a direct link please (DDK). It wasn't anywhere on the entire internet, especially any MS website, last time I looked (and I spent about a week looking too).

Obviously I didn't look hard enough...but I looked very thoroughly I thought. No search engine is indexing it, that's for sure.

[sethstorm]

Would love a direct link please (DDK). It wasn't anywhere on the entire internet, especially any MS website, last time I looked (and I spent about a week looking too).

Obviously I didn't look hard enough...but I looked very thoroughly I thought. No search engine is indexing it, that's for sure.

Here you go, a well-formatted guide to finding and using the DDK.  Let me know if it's too complicated, but it should have most if not all the necessary information to get from bare metal to working driver.

(A more recent version can be found here)


Preliminary instructions:

Only thing you'll need to do is have a Windows Live ID(no charge) and be willing to add the Microsoft Connect service(no charge) to it.  Once you have that, you should be able to grab the SDK you need, which is named "1830_usa_ddk.iso".  You do not need to grab the other versions to use the DDK.

https://connect.microsoft.com/site148/Downloads/DownloadDetails.aspx?DownloadID=21028

Further Instructions:


Install:
Select Custom install, go to samples -> input -> items relating to 8042 input sample and add those.  If you want to add the USB one, go right ahead - but the relevant sample is the 8042 one.
Install to the default directory it gives you: (e.g. C:\WINDDK\3790.1830)

Modification:
The files you need will be here if you installed with the default path.

Code: [Select]

C:\WINDDK\3790.1830\src\input\pnpi8042
Build:
Open a command prompt, go to C:\WINDDK\3790.1830\bin\
Run this at the command prompt to setup the build environment:

Code: [Select]

setenv.bat C:\WINDDK\3790.1830 fre halFrom there, change directory to ..\src\input\pnpi8042
run build.exe with no options (or if you wish, add options)

Result:
If build went through w/o error, it will be at:

Code: [Select]

C:\WINDDK\3790.1830\src\input\pnpi8042\daytona\objfre_wnet_x86\i8042prt.sys

[kishy]

I may have mentioned this, but yeah, I got another 1386887. I'm guessing there were a flood of them from some plant that closed because this is yet another made on the exact same day with a rather close serial number to my existing two.

When I got the 1394167 (w/RJ11 plug) I had taken a keycap I was missing, the SetUp key from the left block of 10 keys. The -4167 has that key in black letting however, so it wasn't "original spec" on the 1386887. I've now swapped the black one off of the one I'm using and put it on the new keyboard, while the blue lettering one off the new keyboard has gone onto the one I use.

Also, I've harvested the Cmd14 key, since I was missing it.

My intention at this point in time, assuming a reasonable number of rivets are still present, is to do the hardware conversion on the new keyboard and sell it to a geekhacker. I would sell it pre-conversion though, just PM me. Yes, I got it cheap (within my normal keyboard price limits) but will be seeking to make a profit on it. I will do my best to undercut prices on equivalent keyboards when that time comes.





Compare this sticker with the ones I provide in my signature. I wonder how many more are lurking around my city?

[sethstorm]

I may have mentioned this, but yeah, I got another 1386887. I'm guessing there were a flood of them from some plant that closed because this is yet another made on the exact same day with a rather close serial number to my existing two.

When I got the 1394167 (w/RJ11 plug) I had taken a keycap I was missing, the SetUp key from the left block of 10 keys. The -4167 has that key in black letting however, so it wasn't "original spec" on the 1386887. I've now swapped the black one off of the one I'm using and put it on the new keyboard, while the blue lettering one off the new keyboard has gone onto the one I use.

Also, I've harvested the Cmd14 key, since I was missing it.

My intention at this point in time, assuming a reasonable number of rivets are still present, is to do the hardware conversion on the new keyboard and sell it to a geekhacker. I would sell it pre-conversion though, just PM me. Yes, I got it cheap (within my normal keyboard price limits) but will be seeking to make a profit on it. I will do my best to undercut prices on equivalent keyboards when that time comes.

Compare this sticker with the ones I provide in my signature. I wonder how many more are lurking around my city?

My 1386887's quite close:
10 OCT 86/1015223, from puravida1881's auctions.  But then I'd bet you'd half expect it to be given the source.

[kishy]

My 1386887's quite close:
10 OCT 86/1015223, from puravida1881's auctions.  But then I'd bet you'd half expect it to be given the source.

I think puravida1881 (who lives in my city) got the keyboards he has from the same place I just got this one. The shelf I pulled this from was bare except for this keyboard...it's entirely possible he couldn't fit it in whatever box he was using or car trunk or whatever it may be.

Either that or this was donated TO the place I got it FROM puravida1881.

Interestingly yours is 10 OCT rather than 16. I also see puravida1881's auctions (there are two, he's selling from two accounts, seems to use one during the holiday season for discounted items) are no longer saying what day.

[sethstorm]

When I got the 1394167 (w/RJ11 plug) I had taken a keycap I was missing, the SetUp key from the left block of 10 keys. The -4167 has that key in black letting however, so it wasn't "original spec" on the 1386887. I've now swapped the black one off of the one I'm using and put it on the new keyboard, while the blue lettering one off the new keyboard has gone onto the one I use.

Well, I've had to swap keycaps with my (incompletely keycapped) 1391401 to make my 1386887 complete but not at all correct.  Enough keycaps to make it look PS/2-like, but largely unchanged.

[kishy]

Just some observations to put out there

It seems like some games ignore the Windows keyboard driver and sort of "have their own", reading the scancodes from the keyboard directly.

Source engine games are a hybrid...they recognize the Windows remaps of the keys, do their own thing for "typematic repeat" (properly detects when keys pressed/unpressed, but won't repeat typing for example)

Here's one nobody will care about but may be somehow significant. Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven is taking the 122 as an 84-key AT board, no exceptions at all. It isn't recognizing my  Cmd1 through 12 as being mapped to F1 to F12 or Cmd13 as Esc. It's using the numlock key as Esc (which is default behaviour), cursor keys are unmapped except left which is backslash...etc. No key sticking issues so it has a mechanism to counter that as well, I guess.

Either that or they're partially respecting the Windows driver, but only partially.

Thoughts/experiences?

[ch_123]

Is it a DirectX thing? I've noted that many games default to the US layout despite the fact I had my system set to the UK one at the time.

[kishy]

Is it a DirectX thing? I've noted that many games default to the US layout despite the fact I had my system set to the UK one at the time.

Interesting...it may indeed be DirectX related. If not then there's a lot of unnecessary work being done by game developers.

AutoHotkey can sometimes get disabled by some games.

Although this driver swap stuff is interesting I'm still thinking the small DIY controller is the best ultimate solution.  

Looking from the outside it seems the Geekhack controller project got bogged down by being over featured.  And you can't blame the Marketing department for that!

Yup, standalone controller is my goal. Kbdbabel was the original I wanted to try but that seems less feasible than an AIKON.

I'm thinking the AIKON will do the job for the 122, given its amazing customization abilities.

[JohnElliott]

Apparently, if you have FilterKeys turned on key repeat is done in software.

This means that you can use the custom i8042prt driver and get repeating keys. The way I did it was:

1. Turn on FilterKeys: Control Panel | Accessiblity Options, tick "Use FilterKeys".
2. In the "Settings" page, untick "Use shortcut" and "Beep when keys pressed or accepted". Select "Ignore quick keystrokes and slow down the repeat rate", and click on the "Settings" button there.
3. Tick "Slow down keyboard repeat rates" and set the delay and repeat rate to the minimum (0.3 seconds). Set the "Keys must be held down for" slider to the mininmum (0.00 seconds).
4. Say OK to everything and check that you get (sluggish) key repeat.
5. Go to the Registry, HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Accessibility\Keyboard Response and edit the "AutoRepeatDelay" and "AutoRepeatRate" options to (say) 200 and 30 respectively.
6. It may be necessary to log out and log in to get the new rates to take.

(I probably did this the long way round. My guess is that changing the values of "AutoRepeatDelay", "AutoRepeatRate" and "Flags" in the Registry  would have sufficed).

[kishy]

Thanks John! That's interesting. I'll definitely look into this next time my desktop is on (starting with just the registry change, if no luck then moving to FilterKeys).

[Oqsy]

kishy: I'm noting my extreme interest in your completed conversion of this new acquisition right now    I've silently watched this thread for a while now with hopes something like this might happen!  Awesome stuff!

Oqsy

[kishy]

kishy: I'm noting my extreme interest in your completed conversion of this new acquisition right now    I've silently watched this thread for a while now with hopes something like this might happen!  Awesome stuff!

Oqsy

Heh, thanks I suppose. I had a feeling something would be possible the get the beasts usable.

Of course, I've sort of abandoned ways of improving this method since it looks like (the 122 key version of) this will be better in the end. Of course, for people not as able/willing with a soldering iron, the method from this thread will still work...just not as well.

[sethstorm]

Heh, thanks I suppose. I had a feeling something would be possible the get the beasts usable.

Of course, I've sort of abandoned ways of improving this method since it looks like (the 122 key version of) this will be better in the end. Of course, for people not as able/willing with a soldering iron, the method from this thread will still work...just not as well.

Well, it'll work in that it also works with the Terminal Model F - as they appear to have a different controller (as you once said).

[kishy]

Well, it'll work in that it also works with the Terminal Model F - as they appear to have a different controller (as you once said).

True. Not so much just a "different controller" as a "different technology requiring different electronics". What exact differences there are, I'm not sure, but it's safe to say you'd need additional 'stuff' in the design.

[microsoft windows]

Does a converted 122-key Model F keyboard have N-key rollover?

[sethstorm]

Does a converted 122-key Model F keyboard have N-key rollover?

As far as I know, yes.  I don't have any issue with blocked/ghosted keys with either the F or the M terminal boards.

The only questionable ones are the Home/End keys - which if you remove the FF keycode from being made into reset, they operate normally after Key Mapper uses them (or manual registry edit of the FF 7F(Home)/FF 7A(End)).

I just wish I could stuff multiple keycodes at the hardware level to bind to one key for the PF3-PF24 keys.  For now, it's impossible to do that w/ a Terminal Model F, but possible with a Terminal Model M(usb controller).

[rickfleming]

I haven't tried this yet, because I don't have the jumpers available, however I looked through the source code to the atkbd module, and it has a special case for a keyboard with an ID of ACA1, which looked like the keyboard should then operate in Set 3 mode, and I believe as the terminal keyboard behaves without the break codes.  This isn't tested yet however, I haven't the jumpers yet to set the ID.  The ID should be settable because the first to bits in each byte are the 10 (the bit value is 1010 1100 1010 0001), just as the keyboard allows.

And I don't currently have a PC setup with a natural PS/2 port either, I've been using a non-converting PS/2 to USB passive adapter, in which case I've been getting the repeat issue since the keyboard doesn't send the break code for the keys.

Once I have the jumpers I am going to attempt this.  It would be nice if Windows also had some catch like this but I very highly doubt it.

I ran into a bunch of code for FreeBSD and NetBSD which looked as though there was some sort of native level support for scancode set 3, and it should be possible to do something similar to the windows driver patch for linux by writing a custom application (either in c, python, or anything really) which will send the correct bytes to the /dev/port device, by opening the device and seeking to the correct IOPort address and writing the correct bytes.

Was wondering if anyone else had a good experience attempting to get this to work under linux.  I also have 64-bit Windows 7 however don't have the time right now to download the windows 2003 ddk and set it all up to patch the version compatible with the enhanced driver API.

Thanks,
Rick

[dfj]

As far as I know, yes.  I don't have any issue with blocked/ghosted keys with either the F or the M terminal boards.

The only questionable ones are the Home/End keys - which if you remove the FF keycode from being made into reset, they operate normally after Key Mapper uses them (or manual registry edit of the FF 7F(Home)/FF 7A(End)).

I just wish I could stuff multiple keycodes at the hardware level to bind to one key for the PF3-PF24 keys.  For now, it's impossible to do that w/ a Terminal Model F, but possible with a Terminal Model M(usb controller).

Nutter - you have been maintaining Monet and JCE's i8042 patch... (who else worked on this?)

You have the i8042 - and a live kernel driver: you can program it to do the deed for you - and for the driver to stash stuff before throwing a 'doze event... 'course your bugs will bring our systems into happy-busted-pagetable-land if you err correctly.

This is not the hardware you meant - but still, it is an option for 'dose - and the linux side is pretty well handled already, last I checked.

  Poor mac-folks. No terminals without USB for them. (not a troll - I am thinking of the mac-users not Apple.)

Anyway - I'm on the physical layer this weekend - going to be blocked on firmware in a couple days, though - so I'll be back on that page soon.

And - yes - I want GH to get some capacitive reading code into our shared brains - the AVR stuff rip mentioned is capable of very much more than we are thinking of - is for reading touch-devices, and might even support multi-touch. Very much more than we need. IBM did this with sane micros and components... once we have more devices in the hands of folks who like that level of layer the excitement will be back.

yup.
dfj

[kishy]

This hasn't really been discovered yet, more or less theorized about, but a pseudo-fact worth putting out there...

In IRC we've kind of come to the conclusion that there may be 5-pin DIN terminal keyboards that this doesn't work with. Not confirmed yet, working on that.

Basically, the later ones are clearly based upon the AT protocol...which is good. But in the same way that XT and AT use the same physical plug on PCs, it seems like the early terminal keyboards may have had XT-based communications. The board that spawned this thought is from 1983 which is iffy on the timeline; surely IBM had the AT stuff in the works at that point, but the stuff in actual production would have likely all been XT.

Unless, of course, the terminals, right from their introduction, were what "AT" was actually designed for to begin with and it just migrated to the AT itself when released...but there's no way in the world to figure that one out.

We shall see what future research and investigation reveals...

[Soarer]

We shall see what future research and investigation reveals...

Any new findings to report?

I'm working on an adapter which handles XT, AT and terminal keyboards, and it would be moderately easy to add support for such a beast should it exist.

[kishy]

Any new findings to report?

I'm working on an adapter which handles XT, AT and terminal keyboards, and it would be moderately easy to add support for such a beast should it exist.

Nothing on that note yet. The board I had that I suspected that of initially has been passed on to someone more capable of probing it (and understanding the findings).

It seems unlikely that my theory was right, though, seeing as the 3270 PC (which is itself a standard XT with extra stuff added) used an AT-speaking keyboard (the 122s we know and love). The ISA card apparently handled this translation.

[Soarer]

Nothing on that note yet. The board I had that I suspected that of initially has been passed on to someone more capable of probing it (and understanding the findings).

It seems unlikely that my theory was right, though, seeing as the 3270 PC (which is itself a standard XT with extra stuff added) used an AT-speaking keyboard (the 122s we know and love). The ISA card apparently handled this translation.

Well it will be interesting to find out what it is once it's been probed.
Perhaps, though, could it simply be broken?

The only terminal board I have is a 3270, which I assume is from a 3270 PC, but it doesn't have the original label. It matches up to the descriptions I've read of other 122s: 240 degree DIN, set 3 codes, AT protocol, mostly no break codes sent (until commanded otherwise).

[kishy]

3270 describes a range/series of terminals...generally, they are the terminals for which these 122s are for. The keyboards are interchangeable so long as the plug is the same...specific part numbers for different units exist because of different key layouts.

The unit in question had both a DA-15 and DB-25 connector. The connection method to the terminal was not apparent, hence why it's been sent off elsewhere to be probed.

[Soarer]

Ah, I see, it's not a 5-pinner. My oscilloscope only has two channels, so I'm sticking to the clock + data versions for now :-)

I've been wondering why the 3270 isn't included in the list in your sig (or on kbdbabel). Is it different in some way? Or just not a 'real' model number?

[kishy]

Some of those (3179...um...there actually is something missing from that list, I think 3290s also use our DIN plug, but only some of them) are 3270 terminals - it's a class rather than a specific unit or type designation, and just saying "3270" includes many terminals that were many years earlier and, in terms of peripheral interfacing, not the same at all. The 3270 PC was a modified XT system that provided a featureset making it part of the 3270 class.

Funny little detail about the 5-pin DIN...it isn't actually 5 pins, technically. They removed the 6th pin from a 6-pin DIN plug and socket and used that. This is what creates the ambiguity between the AT/XT and terminal DIN plugs.

So, important thing is, some of them are 3270 terminals...many aren't (terminals were made as late as 1999, with 8P8C plugs, which use keyboards that this process applies to...but they aren't of the 3270 class).

Edit: indeed, some 3290s (past research suggests the first generation was what used the two d-subs I earlier described - this dates 1983, predating the AT protocol entirely and any use of it anywhere) did use the DIN plug. See here - terminal is a later model 3290 and it has the DIN socket.

[Soarer]

Thanks. So '3270 PC' could go in the list, but it goes without saying, in a way. At least that means that so long as my adapter works with this 3270 PC keyboard, it should work with the other 122s with a 5-pin DIN :-)

[jacynt]

Hello,
Does the Sherwood keyboards (Model EPC) are also mechanical? Keyboard is quite heavy, and it has a rj cabel. Under the buttons there are white "pin" similar to the Cherry MX, but insteed it is "female" like.
I look forward to try it on the PC. Will the trick with rj -> ps/2 adapter work for it? Where I can order this magic adapter?

[kishy]

Hello,
Does the Sherwood keyboards (Model EPC) are also mechanical? Keyboard is quite heavy, and it has a rj cabel. Under the buttons there are white "pin" similar to the Cherry MX, but insteed it is "female" like.
I look forward to try it on the PC. Will the trick with rj -> ps/2 adapter work for it? Where I can order this magic adapter?

I have no idea, to be honest...Googling doesn't seem to get me a view of what you have. Unless it boasts IBM compatibility, I would really doubt this same process would apply (but hey, wouldn't know till you tried...which could be a dangerous endeavour - would encourage a new thread with lots of pics)

[supermario802.1]

I've got several 240 degree IBM Terminal Keyboard to USB Converter if anyone is interested.