ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.

[Grendel]

No, that would just reverse the row/column scan logic.

[madik]

Guys do you know If the PCB mounted Mini USB connector could be easily replaced by a Plate mounted Micro USB connector ?
I am having a hardtime buying TRRS cable and Mini-USB to USB cables in the same color. Micro USB to USB cables are much easier to get in whatever color you want. And also the micro USB connector is more durable. Thanks!

[jacobolus]

Sure, use whatever USB connector you want. You might have to hot glue it or something if it doesn't fit on the PCB.

[alisdair]

I just finished my Ergodox build yesterday, and I'm having a strange problem with some of the keys. Help!

When I press the top left key on the right-hand board, it causes the first five keys in that row to fire. Same goes for the key below it. One of the thumb cluster keys on the same board seems to cause a number of strange keycodes, including numpad keys (which my layout doesn't have bound on the first layer).

(Edit: to clarify, my top row is bound to "67890-". All of the keys apart from 6 work as normal. Pressing 6 causes all keys in the row to be pressed at once.)

I've looked for obvious shorts on the Teensy pins and the rest of the board, and checked all the diodes with my multimeter.

Does anyone have suggestions for debugging this? I don't understand what's happening.

[GatoGigante]

I made a mad-ugly case design that, using Ponoko's size scheme, fits on one P3 and one P2 sheet. The P3 covers everything but the plate, and the P2 is just the plate. I have no idea if it will work, and I've never built a keyboard, and basically I am a big dumb babby. It's being laser cut out of only the finest dirt-cheap bamboo as we speak, and once I get it going I'll put up some progress shots. Until then, feel free to take a look at what I've got.
http://www.ponoko.com/design-your-own/products/ergodox-cheapster-11881

[goflo]

I assembled my ergodox a few weeks ago (using the firmware of benblazak from github), now Iīm tweaking my layout (german qwertz).

Letīs assume I use a layer 1 key in press/release mode (so it just works when pressed, no locking).
When staying in default layer it takes ALTGR+8 to get the [ sign.

Can I assign ALTGR+8 to one key in layer 1?
I want to use the layer 1 key in combination with one key to print a [.

Is that possible?
 

[zorglups]

You need to use the partial rewrite from Ben. With that newer version, you can easily do macros.

See examples in http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45211

I show my macros in comment #58. They do CTRL stuffs so you can do ALTGR stuffs ;-)

[goflo]

  And I just got my layout file almost done.
Iīve just seen that they differ quite a lot in their structure.

Does anyone know if the "use the teensy led to show layer !=0" mod of the master version also works in the partial rewrite?


 

[zorglups]

If I remember well, it is the way it is by default. I changed this because my layers are more like modifiers.

[goflo]

Thanks for the hint with the partial-rewrite firmware. 
Just got my layout converted and the macros set 

The only thing missing is the LED control for LED 1 and LED 2. LED3 is capslock by default and works.
The /fragments/led-control.part.h already mentions that LED 1 and 2 are controlled by the layer keys, but it doesnīt work.
I just use lpupoXlX at the moment, maybe thatīs the reason...might just work with locking layer keys...

[snowe]

Does anyone have an alternative to the MCP23018-E/SP-ND from DigiKey? They're out and I'm impatient and don't want to wait.

Also, I've seen others ask about flipping the teensy and I/O expander to the other side of the PCB, but all of the solutions involve swapping the teensy to the left side and the I/O expander to the right. If I were to just mount the teensy and I/O expander on the opposite side of the correct boards (teensy on the backside of the right hand and I/O expander on the backside of the left) would it work if I updated the firmware? Or is there a pin on the teensy that needs to lead to a specific spot?

[Findecanor]

Does anyone have an alternative to the MCP23018-E/SP-ND from DigiKey? They're out and I'm impatient and don't want to wait.

They are available from a lot of other vendors as well. Just google for MCP23018. The "-E/SP-ND" part might not be part of the part number in some stores, so you would have to read the context to see if it is the correct package.
BTW, DigiKey's shipping out of USA is quite expensive. I live in Europe and got mine from Mixelec in France.

There are a few more things to solder than the Teensy and I/O expander. For instance, a few jumpers are different depending on which side you are on. If you swap the sides, the layout will be mirrored.

[snowe]

They are available from a lot of other vendors as well. Just google for MCP23018. The "-E/SP-ND" part might not be part of the part number in some stores, so you would have to read the context to see if it is the correct package.
BTW, DigiKey's shipping out of USA is quite expensive. I live in Europe and got mine from Mixelec in France.

I guess I should have been a little more clear. I know there are other places to get the I/O expander, but the shipping is outrageous for a part that costs $1. It's $20 in shipping from Mouser and $7 from Microchip Direct. I'm wondering what items a MCP23018 might be in that I can desolder it from.

There are a few more things to solder than the Teensy and I/O expander. For instance, a few jumpers are different depending on which side you are on. If you swap the sides, the layout will be mirrored.

I'm trying to not swap the sides and therefore not cause any mirroring. I just want to place the teensy on the backside of the righthand PCB. Or are you saying that even if I do that the layout will be mirrored?

[darkfrost]

Hey, just built my ergodox, it worked at first, but after typing a small amount, I got a bit of repeated input coming up (like sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss constantly being typed)

Anyway, replugging it fixed that, seemed to be fine. Then next time I tried it, it wouldn't get detected as a keyboard. After a few replug attempts it'd eventually come up and work for a while, then stop responding. Seems to be taking more replug attempts to work.

But, if I hit the teensy button, it'll boot into the teesny flashing mode and be detected fine, every time.

I'm not really sure what's wrong, but when running it ergodox mode it's barely detected. Caps lock light won't change, no input, not even showing up in device manager most of the time!

Any ideas what could cause this? I've tried reflashing it a few times, redid most of the solder joints on the right side, tried plugging in the teensy directly to usb (whilst still soldered to the board though) - same thing.

My current thought is it might be a faulty teensy, since I'd imagine even if some of the soldering was bad, it'd still get detected as a keyboard? maybe not though

Any help would be awesome, thanks!

(P.s. Should the right side work without the left side plugged in? That'd make debugging it a bit easier if I can rule out the left half)

[darkfrost]

Update: Fixed it! Seemed to be a bad joint on the right side, reflowing every solder joint fixed it somehow

[worldspawn]

FYI, There's an awesome group buy over at PMK that includes an ErgoDOX kit: http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/deep-space/

[plainbriny]

It's been a long time from my USB connection mod, so I think it's fair now to report the usage.



The mini USB connection between the two halves is sturdy, and I haven't encountered any issues so far (unlike thin, analog TRRS cables).
I use mini USB to micro USB connector with teensy, so that I can connect to PC with micro USB cables. Micro USB is not as sturdy as mini USB, but the overall result is acceptable. I think you can also use a mini USB to mini USB L adapter.

I didn't use a case, however, I think the litster case can be easily modified to accomodate this change.

So far, I have two ErgoDox with this change, and I am very satisfied with them.

[ml_]

Wow PlainBriny, that is awesome. If you don't mind me asking, how did you print the black PCB? This is exactly the design I would like to use for my first ErgoDox prototype. I really like the minimalist design. Only hopefully I will be able to put an XBox controller on there as well. Attached is a sketch of how I'm thinking about setting it up.



PlainBriny did you make any changes to the PCB design in order to mount the USB ports? I'm planning to print some PCBs, but I plan to add in a space for mounting an XBox/Playstation type controller.

Any tips will be appreciated.

[Evo_Spec]

It's been a long time from my USB connection mod, so I think it's fair now to report the usage.

(Attachment Link)

The mini USB connection between the two halves is sturdy, and I haven't encountered any issues so far (unlike thin, analog TRRS cables).
I use mini USB to micro USB connector with teensy, so that I can connect to PC with micro USB cables. Micro USB is not as sturdy as mini USB, but the overall result is acceptable. I think you can also use a mini USB to mini USB L adapter.

I didn't use a case, however, I think the litster case can be easily modified to accomodate this change.

So far, I have two ErgoDox with this change, and I am very satisfied with them.

(Attachment Link)

Wow, this board is beautiful!

[plainbriny]

Wow PlainBriny, that is awesome. If you don't mind me asking, how did you print the black PCB? This is exactly the design I would like to use for my first ErgoDox prototype. I really like the minimalist design. Only hopefully I will be able to put an XBox controller on there as well. Attached is a sketch of how I'm thinking about setting it up.

(Attachment Link)

PlainBriny did you make any changes to the PCB design in order to mount the USB ports? I'm planning to print some PCBs, but I plan to add in a space for mounting an XBox/Playstation type controller.

Any tips will be appreciated.

I ordered PCB from a local PCB workshop, I didn't modify the PCB, just some jump wires (two on each side) to connect I2C lines to the USB port.
The  controller idea is interesting, I did considered a trackpoint module, since the TMK firmware supports it. However I haven't decided where to put it. Your sketch is nice and looks very useful. But I think you should try some prototypes before printing the PCB, maybe handwire the controller and test various configurations.

[ml_]

I think you should try some prototypes before printing the PCB, maybe handwire the controller and test various configurations.

Thanks, that is a great suggestion and very helpful. I found this thumbstick switch costing $4 each at Sparkfunhttps://www.sparkfun.com/products/9032.




I've created a mockup of the design I'm going to try to implement. Here it is:



The little yellow buttons are planned to be small dome-switch buttons for controlling things like Volume and Brightness.

PBC-mounted speakers are available at Sparkfun for $2 each, but they are very small, so I might try mounting them in an array of four speakers on each side.

I ordered PCB from a local PCB workshop

Wow, your local workshop does some nice craftsmanship. I'm probably going to pick up a pair of PCBs from MechanicalKeyboards.com. They have this one available for $40:




It'll take a while for the parts to ship, but I look forward to putting it all together. Thanks for the tips.

[plainbriny]

I've created a mockup of the design I'm going to try to implement. Here it is:

(Attachment Link)

The little yellow buttons are planned to be small dome-switch buttons for controlling things like Volume and Brightness.

This design is nice, but I am not sure whether the current controller (teensy 2.0) will have enough pins for the extra buttons and speakers. But it might be feasible with some tricks, like using I/O expanders or one teensy for each side...

I ordered PCB from a local PCB workshop

Wow, your local workshop does some nice craftsmanship. I'm probably going to pick up a pair of PCBs from MechanicalKeyboards.com. They have this one available for $40:

This batch is better than my previous ordered batch.
I ordered 10 pcs for under $100, not including shipping, because the workshop is just a few blocks away.
I got some spares, but I think the shipping cost would be much higher than the PCBs themselves.

[ml_]

I am not sure whether the current controller (teensy 2.0) will have enough pins for the extra buttons and speakers. But it might be feasible with some tricks, like using I/O expanders or one teensy for each side... This batch is better than my previous ordered batch.
I ordered 10 pcs for under $100, not including shipping, because the workshop is just a few blocks away.
I got some spares, but I think the shipping cost would be much higher than the PCBs themselves.

Ya, your board looks really nice, at least the part of it that is visible in the photo. If you have a photo of one of the boards to share, I'd love to see it. $10 each sounds like a really good deal, definitely better than $40 for two ($20 each). That's cool that the pcb workshop is so close for you. I am planning on building a few prototypes with my brother, starting in February. Until then we'll just be planning and ordering parts and stuff. I heard back from my brother about the pcbs, and he says that it is super easy to make our own pcbs. He says that all we really need is a bunch of cheap chemicals and a Dremel drill press. It doesn't sound easy to me, but I guess we'll find out. The PCB that I really want is the legendary Ergo GP:



The big advantage is that is has a separate board for the thumb buttons. Do you know if there is a way to download the Gerber files for the Ergo GP PCB? That would be awesome. From reading on the forums, it seems that AcidFire made the Ergo GP, and he has not released the Gerber files yet, afaik.

I think I should be able to customize the PCB using KiCAD. I haven't really tried it out much yet, but with my brother's help, I think we should be able to experiment with making different PCB layouts for the thumbsticks. He said that the thumbsticks should be pretty easy to install, both from a hardware and firmware perspective. I really like the idea of dual teensies (one on each side).

I spent some more time evaluating the thumbstick placement, and I have come to the conclusion that it will actually probably be easier to reach if it is placed down below the thumb buttons:



You can see the updated layout on the right, and the previous layout on the left.



This layout is basically the same, but with a palm rest added in on top of it, and some spots for dome switches around the thumbstick.

My inspiration for the thumbstick comes from a (Stack Exchange discussion about Keyboards)http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/2254/what-are-good-keyboards-for-programming, as well as from comments on the discussion about AcidFire's Axios (Grand Piano) design. On the Stack Exchange discussion, one guy says he likes this oldschool IBM keyboard, because of the little "TrackPoint" joystick, which makes it so that he doesn't have to move his hands from the keyboard to move the cursor.



And apparently, there is a person who actually uses the DataHand (see image below), and he says that his favorite feature is that it has a built-in mouse.

I'm not sure exactly where the mouse is on the DataHand, but apparently it's in there somewhere.

[jacobolus]

ml_: off topic, would you mind making quotations with the [quote] tag instead of a red shadow? The quoted text is nearly unreadable:

[ml_]

would you mind making quotations with the quote tag instead of a red shadow?

Thanks for the tip. Now if I could only figure out how to do hyperlinks properly. I'm more used to markdown.

[AKmalamute]

Of course I have colors turned off so I didn't even get the hints Jacobolus saw...

Here's my problem: I destroyed my left-side board awhile ago, got one from MK and added SMT diodes, attached the plate (some of you may know about my GB for 1.5mm thick switchplates) and now two keys don't register.

I desoldered one of them, tested it with a multimeter, and it actuates normally. So I resoldered it, and found it usually doesn't work. But if I test it where it sits with the multimeter it shows there's a solid connection when depressed.

So based on that, I'm assuming the SMT diode is off kilter. Using a pair of pliers shoved into the holes below the switch, I was able to reach around a press the keys and they actuated normally.

Here's my question: If I solder through-hole diodes to those two switch positions, will they bypass the somehow-faulty SMDs on the other side? Because I really don't want to desolder all 37 switches and yank the board yet again to fuss with the diodes that, with the plate in place, I can't see for anything.

[mickyman]

I feel pretty stupid asking this, but I'm going to use through-hole diodes on my ErgoDox and I'm wondering which way up I solder them.

Did I do it right in this picture?

[plainbriny]

I feel pretty stupid asking this, but I'm going to use through-hole diodes on my ErgoDox and I'm wondering which way up I solder them.

Did I do it right in this picture?

This is correct.
The end with a black line should be put in the side with the square.
But, if you put the diode in the front, you may not be able to use a plate (depending on the thickness of the plate).

[sordna]

I feel pretty stupid asking this, but I'm going to use through-hole diodes on my ErgoDox and I'm wondering which way up I solder them.

Did I do it right in this picture?

This is correct.
The end with a black line should be put in the side with the square.
But, if you put the diode in the front, you may not be able to use a plate (depending on the thickness of the plate).

Other option is: open up up every switch and put the diodes inside the switch. Recommended if you open up the switches to lube them. Otherwise you can solder the diodes on the underside if you find they interfere with the top plate.

[plainbriny]

Other option is: open up up every switch and put the diodes inside the switch.

Yeah, I did this to my own ergodox, and this may improve switch stability when using PCB mount instead of plate mount.

[sordna]

Other option is: open up up every switch and put the diodes inside the switch.

Yeah, I did this to my own ergodox, and this may improve switch stability when using PCB mount instead of plate mount.

Yes I can confirm this. What I did is actually purchased switches from Kinesis which have built-in diodes. Only slight drawback with those switches is you need to change a setting in the code and compile the firmware due to the orientation of the diodes.

[byker]

Saw this today.. Kinda cool! http://axlroach.com/post/104107299783/keyboard-mod

[Evo_Spec]

Saw this today.. Kinda cool! http://axlroach.com/post/104107299783/keyboard-mod

He made a post over here earlier today as well.

[donyn]

At this point how would someone like me purchase an Ergodox? I have no idea where to start in buying one. I am comfortable soldering it together and I could easily do that,
but I have no idea where to buy the parts/kit? Any help?

[mickyman]

At this point how would someone like me purchase an Ergodox? I have no idea where to start in buying one. I am comfortable soldering it together and I could easily do that,
but I have no idea where to buy the parts/kit? Any help?

You can buy all the parts here apart from the key caps
http://falbatech.pl/prestashop/index.php

[worldspawn]

We need 6 more buyers for the ErgoDOX keycap set with legends over on PMK in the next 5 hours, come on guys and get in on a rare labelled kit: http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/deep-space/

[Streiw]

We need 6 more buyers for the ErgoDOX keycap set with legends over on PMK in the next 5 hours, come on guys and get in on a rare labelled kit: http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/deep-space/

Ack.. missed it by 3. I wish SP would just produce the kit(s) that missed the MOQ by less than 10 orders and then sell the extras on their store front.

[worldspawn]

I was charged for the kit when the sale ended, maybe it went through??

[JustCallMeCrash]

I was charged for the kit when the sale ended, maybe it went through??

Argh!  Crap!  I wish I had seen this yesterday and could have hopped in on it... those are gorgeous caps.

[worldspawn]

I was charged for the kit when the sale ended, maybe it went through??

Argh!  Crap!  I wish I had seen this yesterday and could have hopped in on it... those are gorgeous caps.

PMK is putting some sets into their online store since there was a lot if site issues when the deal ended, so you can still pick one up it seems.
From Booper:
 I got some updates from Bob at Signature Plastics. He said there were "dozens" of emails about the site not loading and people missing out and here is the conclusion -

"I just talked with Melissa and she suggested we capture the funds for all the deals that didn't tip so those people don't have to reorder again and pay more freight. The only deals we won't capture funds for are the Polaris Numpad Adder (1 purchased) and the 6U and 7U space bars that only had 1 purchase." -Bob


An extra 25-50 sets will be made and available on the keyshop for those who could not get in at the last minute!

[Data]

Can I run my Ergodox without the LEDs installed?

If not, am I limited to LEDs with only 1.8Vf @ 20mA?  I'm not seeing a lot of color options for LEDs with those values.

I tried searching for this info but apparently I'm awful at it.

[plainbriny]

Can I run my Ergodox without the LEDs installed?

Yes, you can.

[Data]

Can I run my Ergodox without the LEDs installed?

Yes, you can.

Thanks.  That's probably what I'll do.

Any idea about the LED options?  The original parts list just says 3mm T1 LED and links to a red one on DigiKey.  I can get 3mm T1 LEDs in different colors but they don't have the same forward voltage (1.8V).  I'd prefer white or light blue.

Edit: I went ahead and bought 400pcs from the AliExpress seller from this GB:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64915.0

If I can't use them in my 'Dox I can use them in my Octagon (when it ships) and future projects.

[AKmalamute]

my understanding is you have to consider forward voltage when picking the LED / resistor pair, but for example I've got three different LEDs on my 'dox: Green, then purple, and yellow. Each with a separate resistor so they all work just fine. Same principle on my two phantoms, that had different color LEDs...

[vvp]

I - desired LED forward current. Select it at about ⅔ of the maximum sustained forward current but at most 20mA (that is half the maximum ATxmega32u4 IO pin current). (E.g. the maximum forward current is typically 20mA, so we choose 14mA for LED max current.)
Ud - LED forward voltage. This depends mostly on LED colour. Red/orange/yellow LEDs have it typically at about 2V. Blue/green at about 3V. But it depends on the specific LED. (Let's say you have a yellow LED with forward voltage of 2.1V.)
Ucc = 5V (the supply voltage)

The desired resistor:
R = (Ucc - Ud) / min(I, 20mA)

E.g. R = (5V - 2.1V) / min(14mA, 20mA) = 2.9V / 14mA = 2.9V / 0.014A ≅ 207Ω
Select resistor at 207Ω or bigger. The bigger the resistor is the less bright the LED will be. Although, it is better to select the smallest usable resistor and control the brightness using PWM. That consumes less power on average. That gives bigger brightness range to control with PWM. The IO pins used for LEDs support PWM from hardware point of view. If it is not supported in the firmware yet then ask for the support so that you can control LED brightness from firmware.

Edit1: fix wrong numbers in the example.
Edit2: In strikethrough/italics. What a mess. Sorry.

[boingolover]

This may not be the most appropriate place to ask about this, and if not I apologize in advance. 
I was a participant in the most recent drop for the ErgoDox and am hopefully due to get my kit sometime next month.  I ordered the Cherry MX Clears and I have several questions:

• Are you guys lubing / stickering your switches?  I had never even heard of this before I started  browsing the forums here.  I see various opinions on this, some say that lubing is not a good idea for tactile switches (such as Clears), but some say it's okay if you only lube certain bits of it etc.
• If I decide not to lube my switches now but want to do them later, will this require desoldering every switch since these will be plate mounted?
  
• I ordered the clear acrylic case.  I have seen stand-alone alu cases for sale from time to time on massdrop.  If I decided to upgrade later, does this require me to desolder all switches to use a different plate?  Or do you still use the acrylic plate with the alu case?
  Edit: Okay, I'm mistaken apparently, I thought there was an all aluminum case, but it looks like it's just the top plate that's aluminum.

Thanks in advance!

[wuqe]

No lube, nor stickers, for me. That said, I've done spring mods, and with the MassDrop case, you can open the switches without desoldering to get at their guts. I think that means you can sticker, and you can certainly lube.

[boingolover]

No lube, nor stickers, for me. That said, I've done spring mods, and with the MassDrop case, you can open the switches without desoldering to get at their guts. I think that means you can sticker, and you can certainly lube.

Thanks for the reply!  Just curious, which springs / switches did you go with?

[wuqe]

55g springs on my clears, to make it lighter on my hands. They're sweet!

[rethus]

Anybody knows how i can got the Windows-Key (Super_L ; 0xffeb, Keycode 133) to work with ergodox firmware?
Need it as metakey in linux.