Using Cherry Corp DoubleShot Keys on Your Filco/Wasd/Rosewill etc...

[timw4mail]

Funny thing about that...The Scorpius has four switch sockets on the spacebar.

[timw4mail]

Show Image

So overall I'm pretty happy with this.  The next trick is to find a replacement right shift key.  I think the G81-8000 series is my best bet so I found one on Ebay for $115.  Too much (it's USED too).  He takes offers so I offered $20.  He came back with $85.  Hahahahahaha!

I might have to keep on looking.  Anybody has some ideas here please post them - they gotta be around somewhere.

Also, what's up with those Cherry front row keys???

On my "Otaku" Scorpius, the Windows keys and Context Menu keys are letter sized, so the Filco keycaps wouldn't fit.

Apparently, in terms of solidity:

Cherry Double-shot > Filco > iOne

Now where could I find a set of black keys for my Model F?

[clickclack]

Interesting, it makes the Filco sound more like the Das. (just from your recordings) Just for the heck of it do you happen to know how much the Das keys weigh and/or relative thickness? I remember the pictures of the Das and someone saying they were thicker (I think it was in the "battle of the ESC keys")

great post btw

[itlnstln]

This would probably explain some of the reasons my G80-3000 sounds different than my Filco.  It seems Cherry uses more stout caps than Costar.  It's weird, though, because I always felt that the Cherry caps were lighter, but then again, I have laser-etched caps and not the double-shot ones.  I'll have to find a scale and check a few out.

[megarat]

While I don't have such in-depth quantitative information, I noticed the same effect when I "converted" my Filco Zero to original ALPS switches and SGI keycaps.  The SGI keycaps -- while not double-shot are still quite burly -- feel much more solid and have a much more industrious sound.  The feel is especially palpable.

We face a similar conundrum:  populating a modern board with older keycaps and trying to get the bottom row (and perhaps other modifier keys) to fit properly.  Everything else fits and looks great, but some keys just won't fit without serious modification, either to the keys or the board itself.

For Phase Two of my keyboard project, I'm planning to achieve this "final mile" with some drilling, soldering, and electrical-taping (not to mention welding and plasma-cutting, since ALPS switches need to be mounted to a metal plate).  I hope to start next month and I expect I'll have something to report -- let's hope it's positive -- by Novemberish.

[keyb_gr]

1989 G80-1xxxHAD Esc: Back 1.73 mm, sides 1.53/1.58 mm, front 1.49 mm.
1993 G80-3000HAD Esc: Back 1.67 mm, sides 1.49 mm, front 1.44 mm.
1996 G80-3000LFADE Esc: All between 1.40 and 1.47 mm, with the sides again taking middle positions.
2004 G80-3456LQMDE Esc: Back 0.94 mm, sides 0.82 mm, front 0.75 mm. Darn cost-cutting. No wonder I don't like the feel of these keys as much. You notice they're lighter when picking them up. Not like I'd ever have seen a worn-through Cherry key but anyway...

[itlnstln]

1989 G80-1xxxHAD Esc: Back 1.73 mm, sides 1.53/1.58 mm, front 1.49 mm.
1993 G80-3000HAD Esc: Back 1.67 mm, sides 1.49 mm, front 1.44 mm.
1996 G80-3000LFADE Esc: All between 1.40 and 1.47 mm, with the sides again taking middle positions.
2004 G80-3456LQMDE Esc: Back 0.94 mm, sides 0.82 mm, front 0.75 mm. Darn cost-cutting. No wonder I don't like the feel of these keys as much. You notice they're lighter when picking them up. Not like I'd ever have seen a worn-through Cherry key but anyway...

Maybe I was right about the Cherry keys feeling lighter...

[watduzhkstand4]

I know it's user preference but I don't know how geekhackers can resist the blank look of those filcos. Even though the keys gets shiny quickly, it is still sick looking =D

[itlnstln]

I know it's user preference but I don't know how geekhackers can resist the blank look of those filcos.

I don't know about Filcos, but women sure can resist the blank look of my face.
 

Even though the keys gets shiny quickly, it is still slick looking =D

T,FTFY

[keyb_gr]

Show Image

It was late at night and I was rushing it.   Luckily I was gonna order some switches for DataCal so I'm only out an extra $1.20 and some soldering time.  Told you those Filco keycaps fit tight.  If you run across a sticky one don't yank, just keep rocking it off.

I'd think you could piece that one together again. Doesn't look like there is anything broken off or something. Visible debris should be removed though.

[timw4mail]

Yeah, you just ripped the plunger from the click slider...it should just click back together...

[antok86]

do they sell "lettered" keys for the filcos? im getting an otaku which is blank and would like some letter keys for the numbers and f keys

[timw4mail]

do they sell "lettered" keys for the filcos? im getting an otaku which is blank and would like some letter keys for the numbers and f keys

Not for the Filcos, it doesn't look like. But really, you can scrounge those off of any Cherry-keycap compatible keyboard.

[megarat]

I have two sets of lettered Filco keycaps that I'm willing to part with for merely the price of shipping.

The catch is they're for the Filco Zero XM (Alps), not Cherry.

[clickclack]

I have two sets of lettered Filco keycaps that I'm willing to part with for merely the price of shipping.

The catch is they're for the Filco Zero XM (Alps), not Cherry.

hmmm...
(my cogs are still meshing....)
hmmm....

[antok86]

The catch is they're for the Filco Zero XM (Alps), not Cherry.

doh'

[Hak Foo]

Wonder if they'd work on an AT101W, the default cheap Alps board?

[itlnstln]

Wonder if they'd work on an AT101W, the default cheap Alps board?

Yes.  It even looks like the modifier keys would fit, too.

[nanu]

Here's my anti-otaku effort, albeit using laser-etched keys from a Cherry, and its keypad's stems transplanted onto winkeys and the spacebar from a Gateway rubberdome.

The imperfection of the stabilizer arms is that the slots are too wide vertically, so it increases rattle with the wirebar, unless amply greased—I could probably graft more plastic, or redo them.

[nanu]

Those blues sound more jangly than I remember from other clips.

Overall I can't tell a difference, since I put foam donuts under each key still.  Speaking of sounds however, I've noticed that some of the Filco's brown switches resonate a middle-range pitch (more pronounced upon release).

I've adjusted to the lower-profile Cherry keys, and the higher Enter key doesn't bother me as much, now.  I must say, the bigger nubs on the Cherry keys feel good.

The spacebar feels fine at the moment, although I expect this mod to fail somehow.

[clickclack]

Hey ripster, thanks for the sound sample with the 3 different blue cherry set ups. I really need a blue cherry board! That was my weekly tease sound sample! haaahaa

[itlnstln]

The scooped F and J keys are a little weird.  If you use a Cherry 'board for an extended period of time, they become natural, but switching to a Cherry 'board from something else is a little odd.

[keyb_gr]

Interestingly, the scooped keys only reappeared fairly recently, after several years with conventional nubs (which started to be used around 1999 or so).

[timw4mail]

Nice triple-shift layout.

On the only keyboard I have that has double-shot keys (The Vtech), the keys are worn enough that the texture of the keys is gone, and they aren't fun to type with.

I'm thinking of swaping the keys from my Chicony onto the Vtech, as it would be a lot more fun to type with if the keys felt better than they do.

[itlnstln]

I wonder if a preference for shiny keys depends on the plastic.  Some, like lowpoly, like shiny keys as they feel it helps them stick to the keys better (like racing slicks on a car), but I wonder if that's true for all plastics.  I am currently seeing how long it takes to make POM caps shiny.  When that finally happens, I will see if they are as "grippy" as ABS.  Right now, with their texture intact, the POM keys on my Cherry feel like surface of a Teflon pan... literally.

[timw4mail]

I wonder if a preference for shiny keys depends on the plastic.  Some, like lowpoly, like shiny keys as they feel it helps them stick to the keys better (like racing slicks on a car), but I wonder if that's true for all plastics.  I am currently seeing how long it takes to make POM caps shiny.  When that finally happens, I will see if they are as "grippy" as ABS.  Right now, with their texture intact, the POM keys on my Cherry feel like surface of a Teflon pan... literally.

That slick?

[timw4mail]

Sounds about right.  That's what a Delrin guitar pick feels like.

I think the shiny keys would be an acquired taste but they are incredible sharp - the pictures don't do them justice.

The cost cutting measures of keyboard manufacturers are starting to piss me off.  In the volumes we are talking for some of these guys I wouldn't be surprised if dual shots cost them less than $5 a set.

Ironically enough, "Panic buttons" in general seem to be double-shot molded.

[ak_nala]

That is an awesome looking board.

Being an old typewriter fan, double shots are the only way to go.

[itlnstln]

That slick?

Yes.  It's not really a problem when I'm typing since I just press the key and move on (I'm not a big stickler for how grippy keycaps are), but if you were to fondle the keys (perv), you would notice how slick they really are.

[itlnstln]

That almost looks sanded, ripster.

[Hofy]

Damn you, Ripster!  
My wife says the Cherry KB with the double shot keys is at home waiting for me.  (I am stuck in Chicago until tomorrow.) (BTW got it from the same seller as you for $10.50)
Guess it doesnt matter as my Filco TenKeyless Brown Cherry wont be delivered until next week.

[elbowglue]

Woot.  I bought an 87 key filco otaku blue cherry from another member of geekhack, but I think I may mod it when it comes in to have printed letters too!  (I think I'll buy some nikon gear and some legos too so I can really be like ripster lol)

You guys think these keycaps would work?

G81-7000HPBUS-2

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Cherry-Keyboard-G81-7000HPBUS-2_W0QQitemZ260494351772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item3ca6ac5d9c

Thanks.  I've been bit buy the bug.  But not so badly that I think I need a topre yet

[itlnstln]

These will be fine.  The larger keys might not work, but the majority will.

[sixty]

US Layout and G81 is a whole different deal, but I made this earlier for some international deals (yes I am shipping double shot sets over to Korea now) and figured it might come in useful at some point, easy to see what fits and what does not. If we could get this for more models it would be nice.

[timw4mail]

That's interesting.  The POS keyboards have noncentered keystems for CTRL, ALT (idiotic Cherry engineers) so that's the only row I haven't been able to replace.  Also, I haven't seen doubleshot CTRL ALTs that would fit the spacing.

Not that they have double-shot keys, but the MX8100's have centered keycap stems on the control keys.

[sixty]

That's interesting.  The POS keyboards have noncentered keystems for CTRL, ALT (idiotic Cherry engineers) so that's the only row I haven't been able to replace.  Also, I haven't seen doubleshot CTRL ALTs that would fit the spacing.

What do you measure on those? - I get 23mm when I measure the base.  From the looks of it yours aren't Filco compatible. (Edit: I checked by putting two together and comparing with your pic for R-SHIFT and nope, not compatible).

What are you trading??  Get me some Red Cherry keyboards!

I will measure keys later, am too lazy now.

For now I am just trading keycaps, these are all from dead G80s that I have recycled. So I have like 7 sets of black/grey German doublshot keys left atm. My overall stock of G80-1000/3000s is in the high 50s now. I had picked up some bigger bulks recently and I am slowly cleaning and disassembling all. Everything that is dead gets the keys and switches harvested and then thrown out without mercy.

I originally planned to blog about the whole process but it ended up way more boring than I expected. I have another lot incoming soon which will have some hopefully more interesting boards (G80-9000 and  G80-2000 series).

[sixty]

I will be putting up a post here too once I'm done with the whole process. I dunno whether or not I should put up full boards too, shipping costs are likely to kill any appeal of a cheap and clean G80?

[itlnstln]

If you can get a G80-1800 with browns and a US layout, I would be very interested.  I don't care about color or keycap type (although, double-shot would be preferred).

[elbowglue]

Hmmm.. I've been reading this thread again now for the 3rd time, now I am appreciating the humor more

Now I understand:
All of the keys from the G81-7000HPBUS-2 work except the caps lock and the right shift key, caps lock dosen't fit, and right shift dosen't fit either.  So you took the right shift and put it on the capslock button.

Then you got the G81-8000HPBUS-2 which appears to have full size right shift key and used that to place onto your right side shift.

I suppose the Caps lock from the G81-7000HPBUS-2 dosen't fit on the filco board either eh?

And the whole bottom row (spacebar, ctrl, alt, windows key) are all original.

And the cherry keys are 2mm shorter than the filco keys, therefore if you left the old right shift key as filco, it would be ghetto.

Hm. That makes me rethink undergoing this whole process lol.  Would be easier to get a G80-3000LSCRC-2 and saw off the tenkey section of the fricken keyboard... although you wouldn't have the doubleshot keys then.

You think there is a big different between the plate mounted Filco vs the PCB mounted cherry boards?

Thanks ripster for your contributions, you the man:)

[itlnstln]

You think there is a big different between the plate mounted Filco vs the PCB mounted cherry boards?

I'm not ripster, but yes, there is.  I am not sure if ripster has any PCB-mounted MX 'boards.  The G81 series has MY switches.

[elbowglue]

I'm not ripster, but yes, there is.  I am not sure if ripster has any PCB-mounted MX 'boards.  The G81 series has MY switches.

And the difference is....?
I assume the plate mounted boards might make more sound and are harder to mod (you have to desolder switches) in comparison to PCB mounted boards you can pry the switch open, and maybe the sound is quieter?

There is flex on PCB mounted cherry boards (I can verify from my MX8100) but I'm not sure if it affects my typing at all? I can't tell.

[itlnstln]

And the difference is....?
I assume the plate mounted boards might make more sound and are harder to mod (you have to desolder switches) in comparison to PCB mounted boards you can pry the switch open, and maybe the sound is quieter?
 
There is flex on PCB mounted cherry boards (I can verify from my MX8100) but I'm not sure if it affects my typing at all? I can't tell.

I would tell you to search since I have written no less than 157 posts on this, but I'm not an a*shole so...
 
The PCB-mounted switches feel a little lighter in my opinion as well as more tactile.  The sound is much softer than plate-mounted 'boards.  PCB-mounted switches are easier to mod if you are too handy with a soldering iron.  There are some other, non-switch-related differences between Filcos and Cherrys, but as far as switch mounting goes, those are the main differences.
 
Tim4wmail also noticed some flex in his G81-8100, but I have zero flex in my 3000.  I guess the PCB size in the 8100 must allow you to get more leverage to flex the board.

[elbowglue]

Thanks for the info itlnstln and rip.  Dang by the way you describe it itlnstln, it seems that the g80-3000 is superior to the Filco 104key cherry blue.  And if you can find it at one of the POS sites in stock it could be much cheaper.

Sorry bout that not searching the forums first, I thought I had actually read every post on geekhack already, being a big time lurker already lol.

[itlnstln]

Thanks for the info itlnstln and rip. Dang by the way you describe it itlnstln, it seems that the g80-3000 is superior to the Filco 104key cherry blue. And if you can find it at one of the POS sites in stock it could be much cheaper.
 
Sorry bout that not searching the forums first, I thought I had actually read every post on geekhack already, being a big time lurker already lol.

No problem.  I do like the 3000 more than the Filco, personally.  Both my Filco and my Cherry have brown switches, though, so I couldn't tell you if the blues are any better on the 3000 than the Filco, but there are other members here that have both, and they might be able to tell you.

[sixty]

No problem.  I do like the 3000 more than the Filco, personally.  Both my Filco and my Cherry have brown switches, though, so I couldn't tell you if the blues are any better on the 3000 than the Filco, but there are other members here that have both, and they might be able to tell you.

Can only speak my experience here (and as ripster said - everyone has different favourites around here), but so far I liked all of the Cherry switches more when not plate mounted. The feeling somehow seems more smooth and i can tell a clear difference in sound too.

Also, we should really stop abusing ripster's mod as a chat here.

[pfink]

Show Image

Yaaaay - the R-SHIFT key is a 1:1 replacement.  Finally.  Now for the front row.  Whaaa.... A DOUBLE insult.  No double shot and offcenter posts.  What was Cherry Corp thinking.  Dumbkopfs.  Sheisskopfs.  Das ist nicht gut.

The front row keys on this Cherry MX8100 fit the Filco:




The Control and Alt keys are double-shot, the Windows keys aren't.

[cchan]

The front row keys on this Cherry MX8100 fit the Filco:

Show Image

The Control and Alt keys are double-shot, the Windows keys aren't.

and so does the capslock - the stem is centred on this board.

[keyb_gr]

Speaking of Caps Lock, it's not stepped either. This might fit my KB-5182 à la Futaba, too.

[skcheng]

and so does the capslock - the stem is centred on this board.

Are the keys on this board (Cherry MX8100) double shot?   And if they aren't, do they match the height/look of the double shot keys on the G80 and G81 boards?

thanks,

skc

[sixty]

Are the keys on this board (Cherry MX8100) double shot?   And if they aren't, do they match the height/look of the double shot keys on the G80 and G81 boards?

thanks,

skc

They are doubleshot on the auction (and pictures) linked earlier in this topic. However, there are also lasered versions. Keep looking for the H** in the serial, which indicates double shot keys.

Talking of double shot keys... something very cool will be coming to geekhack soon. Maybe expect it at the end of this month. This is hint one! Stay tuned.

[skcheng]

They are doubleshot on the auction (and pictures) linked earlier in this topic. However, there are also lasered versions. Keep looking for the H** in the serial, which indicates double shot keys.

Talking of double shot keys... something very cool will be coming to geekhack soon. Maybe expect it at the end of this month. This is hint one! Stay tuned.

Stay tuned for what??  :smile:

[sixty]

Stay tuned for what??  :smile:

A secret double shot related project that I am currently working on for the community. I will reveal more details at a later time.

[skcheng]

This may officially be the geekiest thing I've ever done.  I sort of like the "stepped" caps lock key.   Messed up a few before I got one right.  





The spacebar has turned out to be more of a problem due to the different spacing on the stabilizer bar.   But I'm sure I figure something out ....

[sixty]

This may officially be the geekiest thing I've ever done.  I sort of like the "stepped" caps lock key.   Messed up a few before I got one right.  

Show Image

Show Image

The spacebar has turned out to be more of a problem due to the different spacing on the stabilizer bar.   But I'm sure I figure something out ....

Very Nice! I have been planning on trying this for a while. How did you remove the stem? I am guessing pliers?

[salcan]

Is that the same 2 part epoxy ripster recommended a few days ago? (sry, not sure the thread)

[skcheng]

Very Nice! I have been planning on trying this for a while. How did you remove the stem? I am guessing pliers?

I actually cut the stem off of another key cap.  Then I milled the stem down till it would fit exactly in the center of the cap.   I used a microscope to align things.   Didn't take that long.   The stem is part of the cap, so I don't think they will pry off.

[skcheng]

Is that the same 2 part epoxy ripster recommended a few days ago? (sry, not sure the thread)

I used Gorilla glue.  But only cuz I had it handy.  Gorilla glue expands when it sets, so I sandblasted both parts, primed the plastic, glued the two pieces and used a tongue depressor and rubber bands to clamp the parts overnight.  

Probably much more trouble than it's worth.   But I couldn't settle for a shift key in the caps lock position.

[skcheng]

Okay.   Spacebar blue switch swapped out and new DS keys installed.   Brand new keys courtesy of Didjamatic.   All keys from that set were used except for the rt. shift key which came from a different board and the space bar which is the Filco for now.  











The lower row isn't a great swap.  The correct sized DS keys have off center stems and this smaller set leaves unattractive gaps btwn the keys.   Oh well.....close enough for now.    Keys feel a little different.  More solid and damped.   I like it.   Well worth the effort imho.    Next up with be the full DS swap on a 104 keyboard.  

Thanks for viewing.  

skc

[Frawg]

Looks sharp!

[didjamatic]

I agree, I like how that front row looks with the narrow keys.  Well done!

[elbowglue]

Anyone find a good source of mid mounted doubleshot black capslock keys without cracking the stem off?

[skcheng]

Anyone find a good source of mid mounted doubleshot black capslock keys without cracking the stem off?

I'm gathering data right now and I'll post a summary of what board has which DS keys.  

Meanwhile, as I'm typing on my Filco with the DS keys, I'm wondering to myself if it really gets much better than this??   De....lightful  :happy:

[sixty]

I think the only double shot board with a compatible capslock key is the MX8000 series. All other Cherry boards have the stepped capslock key which equals a non centered stem.

[pfink]

I think the only double shot board with a compatible capslock key is the MX8000 series. All other Cherry boards have the stepped capslock key which equals a non centered stem.

The bottom row keys on the MX8100 are also the right size for the Filco.

[pfink]

I bought a Filco tenkeyless with Cherry browns for the office and found a couple Cherry 'boards on eBay that provided the necessary double-shot replacement keys:



I apologize for my lousy photography skills, but in person this thing looks and feels great. Filco with double-shots is definitely a winning combination.

[skcheng]

I bought a Filco tenkeyless with Cherry browns for the office and found a couple Cherry 'boards on eBay that provided the necessary double-shot replacement keys:

Show Image

I apologize for my lousy photography skills, but in person this thing looks and feels great. Filco with double-shots is definitely a winning combination.

That's awesome!!  Which cherry board did you use for the caps lock and the front row??   I have several that fill in the other keys.   Didjamatic listed the board that he used for the front row.   I'll need to find one of those.   Is that the Filco space bar or did you find one of those also?

It is a much nicer look/feel than the stock Filco isn't it?  

skc

[pfink]

That's awesome!!  Which cherry board did you use for the caps lock and the front row??   I have several that fill in the other keys.   Didjamatic listed the board that he used for the front row.   I'll need to find one of those.   Is that the Filco space bar or did you find one of those also?

It is a much nicer look/feel than the stock Filco isn't it?  

skc

The caps lock and front row keys came from a Cherry MX-8100:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=156685&postcount=67

The rest of the keys are from an MY-7000, except the spacebar which is the original Filco.

Yeah, the double-shot keys definitely make a difference in feel and sound.

[skcheng]

The caps lock and front row keys came from a Cherry MX-8100:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=156685&postcount=67

The rest of the keys are from an MY-7000, except the spacebar which is the original Filco.

Yeah, the double-shot keys definitely make a difference in feel and sound.

But what is the exact Article No. on that board?   There seem to be a few different MX-8100 boards.   Thanks!!

skc

[pfink]

But what is the exact Article No. on that board?   There seem to be a few different MX-8100 boards.   Thanks!!

skc

I'll look it up and post when I get home tonight.

[salcan]

I could see the DS swap being great with Blues, but would you say it's worth it for browns as well?

[didjamatic]

I posted some of this in the keyboard pics thread, but thought I should put some info here to keep the DS Filco info together.

These are the exact 2 keyboards I used to mod my filco to make a complete Doubleshot keyboard with a full width front row.  (Win and menu keys are printed)  Neither spacebar will fit, so if you have a white board, you'll need to keep your white spacebar or find another donor.  If you have a black board, you can obviously keep your current spacebar.

Cherry G81-7000HPBUS-2 / 02  - All keys are double shot except windows and menu keys which are printed.  Front row has standard width keys.

Cherry G80-8200HPDUS-2 / 00 - For long Right Shift, CapsLock with centered post.  Front row has wide keys that fit Filco perfectly.  All keys are double shot except windows and menu keys which are printed.

Yes, those are my auctions, no pressure to bid, but no harm in linking to a live source for the keyboards, right?





-----

Photos of keyboards and labels:





--

[pfink]

I could see the DS swap being great with Blues, but would you say it's worth it for browns as well?

I think so. The keys feel better.

The only thing that takes a little getting used to is that there are no nubs on the F and J keys, they're curved differently instead.

[didjamatic]

Just as worth it on browns as blues.

[skcheng]

I think so. The keys feel better.

The only thing that takes a little getting used to is that there are no nubs on the F and J keys, they're curved differently instead.

Until it was mentioned here, I don't think I ever even noticed the nubs on the F and J.   I always position myself by placing my left pinky on the A?  I don't know......I'm weird.  

So did Cherry evey make nubby F and J keys?

[Frawg]

I got a midmounted DS capslock off the 8113

[skcheng]

I got a midmounted DS capslock off the 8113

I made a few more of the stepped Caps Lock keys.   Getting good at it.  Only takes me about an hour to make one now  LOLOL.

[sixty]

If anyone has a spare enter and "| \" key, let me know.

[grilkip]

Oh that's rather interesting. Please tell me which grit you used.

[grilkip]

That's sick dude, grilkips are people as well. :|

[kishy]

+

[grilkip]

Fine, I'll wait..

[itlnstln]

That sandblasting job looks awesome, ripster.  Good work.

[sixty]

That enter key came out great. Almost looks similar to when you get them in new condition. The problem is... I actually need an ANSI style enter and "| \" key. This is all im missing for the perfect double shot mod.

Ripster, if you love German keys that much I will assemble a bag of silly ones and send them your way.

[skcheng]

Just some updated pics on my DS Filco.  Used pretty much everyday for the last month with no distinguishable wear/shine to the keys.  







and some outdoor shots:

[elbowglue]

[skcheng]

Zazzle needs to add nubs.

Is the correct term "nib":

Main Entry: nib
Pronunciation: \ˈnib\
Function: noun
Etymology: probably alteration of neb
Date: 1585
1 : bill, beak
2 a : the sharpened point of a quill pen b : pen point; also : each of the two divisions of a pen point
3 : a small pointed or projecting part

or "nub":

Main Entry: nub
Pronunciation: \ˈnəb\
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of English dial. knub, probably from Low German knubbe
Date: 1727
1 : knob, lump
2 : nubbin
3 : gist, point

Or should it be "nip" as in short for nippl.....  

[Hand]

skcheng and ripster,

If I weren't mechanically incompetent, I'd try to duplicate what you've done. Too bad I can't get a filco like these.

[skcheng]

skcheng and ripster,

If I weren't mechanically incompetent, I'd try to duplicate what you've done. Too bad I can't get a filco like these.

It's not difficult at all.   Simply involves swapping keys.   A keycap puller does help.

[negidaku]

The Filco stablizer fits a bit looser in the Cherry key which makes it annoying when putting on but it works.  It also sticks out a bit on some keys but trust me, it ends up working fine.

This is a bit of an understatement in my case -- about half of the Filco stabilizers are so loose that they fall out of the keycap when I turn it over. So some of my long keys don't have a functioning stabilizer at all right now, and some of the others feel mushy or clattery.

[skcheng]

This is a bit of an understatement in my case -- about half of the Filco stabilizers are so loose that they fall out of the keycap when I turn it over. So some of my long keys don't have a functioning stabilizer at all right now, and some of the others feel mushy or clattery.

I had this problem on one key.   A quick easy solution is to use a dab of non-toxic stick glue.  The kind that they sell at Staples or any grocery store.  A small dab and you're good to go.  Easily removed too.

[Morning Song]

Does anyone happen to know of any good model number for a key donor with a short left shift key? (i.e. 105 key layout) Alternately, if anyone already has such a thing, i'd happily trade a long doubleshot cherry left shift for one!

[bitflipper]

Does anyone happen to know of any good model number for a key donor with a short left shift key? (i.e. 105 key layout) Alternately, if anyone already has such a thing, i'd happily trade a long doubleshot cherry left shift for one!

I've got a black 2-shot right shift from a G81-7000HPBUS. It might work on the left.

Edit: here's pics:

[Morning Song]

*wince* close! But that's about a quarter of an inch too long

[sixty]

Morning Song,
Let me know if you want it, I can throw in the matching long shift if the lack of the "Shift" legend on one key pisses you off too much.

PS: If for a trade you would happen to have a horizontal Enter and wide "| \" key, that would be awesome. If not thats fine too, just PM me your address and I'll have it shipped out.

EDIT: Of course the image shows the measurement in centimeters, you will have to convert it to your REDNECK AMERICAN NON METRIC SYSTEM first, but I'm pretty sure it will fit!

[stickemup]

Spiffy.

The Filco Blue Cherry Tenkeyless with DoubleShots - the Ultimate Modern Keyboard!

I just found this thread, doing internet searches having begun the same process last night on my filco board.

So I am either "Standing on the shoulders of giants", or "Following in the footsteps of fools".

[Morning Song]

As mods go, it's pretty painless You just need a keycap puller and some time. The one thing that tripped me up was my Filco's ISO layout.

[stickemup]

I don't need the double shots, as the sublimated dye work fine. For that matter, I don't really care what they look like; ideally I wouldn't be looking at them anyway. I just like the feel of the better quality keycap.

So that should open a bunch more options for me. Too bad cherry didn't use these keys on any cheap keyboards.

[Soarer]

All righty... I've got a tenkeyless Filco with blues, a G80-8200HPDUS and a G81-7000HPBUS. So that covers all the keys except the space bar...

Did anyone find a space bar that fits? Or is it just not all that annoying to have space 2mm higher than the rest?

If it annoys me, maybe I'll have to resort to glueing a mounting on like skcheng did with caps lock, but I can't see me getting that right first time! At least I could probably leave the original mounting in place because I don't think it would interfere with the switch (just). And the mounts for the stabilzer are in the right place. (Donor space bar from the 8200 of course, the 7000 is slightly too short).

[ch_123]

*wince* close! But that's about a quarter of an inch too long

Show Image

You're Canadian right? What on earth possessed you to get a UK layout keyboard? I've been trying to dodge them for years... well, one year.

[Soarer]

Wish I'd used a quicker setting glue now! Hum-ti-tum-ti-tum...

[Soarer]

Well here's my fiesty lil Filly, straddling her double-shot donors...



The space bar from the 8200 fits perfectly with the extra piece glued in... before the glue set I fitted it to the board to get the position just right. If I hadn't, any slight error in the rotation of the new piece would've made space either wonky or sticky: 1 degree out would be 1mm out at the end of the bar. Then I left it upside down to fully set, just in case the glue was still mobile enough to slither downwards!

Delete/End/PgDn... I don't  have correct height keys for them  The ones off the 7000 are too tall, and they're annoying in use, so I ended up using the low profile ones off the 11900. Looks worse, but feels better. (They were the only keys off the 11900, which had already been raped by a raptor... but that's another story for another thread...).

Cast, in order of appearance (prettiest first, by a long shot):
Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless 87MC/EB
Cherry G80-11900HRMGB/01 (Del, End, PgDn)
Cherry G80-8200HPDUS-2 (all keys from the main block except Enter and '\')
Cherry G81-7000HUAUS-2/02 (Cursors, Esc, F-keys, Ins, Home, PgUp, PrtSc, Scroll, Pause, Enter, '\')

[Morning Song]

You're Canadian right? What on earth possessed you to get a UK layout keyboard? I've been trying to dodge them for years... well, one year.

USian--Michiganian, to be specific. And it was sort of an impulse. The 105th key makes a good compose key in Linux, though.

[ch_123]

Ambigious location is ambigious. =P

I've spent the past year trying to get rid of all my UK keyboards... Only the one on my laptop remains

[elbowglue]

Ok I was trying to do this mod (put cherry keys on a filco board) today.  The keys which require stabilizers dosen't work exactly right.  For example, left shift button, when I use the cherry keycap on the filco stabilizer / stabilizer stems, it pushes down too far, and makes it function in a sticky fashion.  I can get it to work if I don't push the cherry keycap down too hard or too far... is this how you did it, just use the filco stabilizer bar, filco stabilizer stem, and don't push the cherry keycap too far down?

I think the plus on the filco stabilizer stem is a little small making it slide too deep..

Thanks

EDIT:  Oh wait I just read the post 1 post above (facepalm) I guess you just stick it in but not too far.

This I think may have thrown off some people.  The stabilizers are quite different.  Filco on the left, Cherry 81 series on the right.

Show Image

It's simple though to just pull the stabilizers and exchange. The Filco stablizer fits a bit looser in the Cherry key which makes it annoying when putting on but it works.  It also sticks out a bit on some keys but trust me, it ends up working fine.

[thcyash]

great mod, ripster! :clap2:

the filco looks superb.. after reading this i regret that i´ve ordered a filco with the german layout because i doubt that there are german donor keyboards with ds caps  out there which fit to a filco.

[thcyash]

hehe, nice caps...

i´ve got to correct myself : "... german donor keyboards with BLACK ds caps..." or do they exist?

im still considering the alternative to replace the german layout with the us one... do you also own a filco full keyboard @ ripster?

i also want to replace the numpad keys with the ds caps of the donor keyboards.. do they fit? thank you in advance

[thcyash]

If you have a standard keyboard the numpad section looks to me to be fully compatible.

I know the black doubleshots are harder to get in Germany but they do exist IIRC.

sounds good... another argument for a replacement

thanx for the infos

[woody]

Thanks to ripster for this thread.

Maybe beating on a dead horse, but ... I don't want to seek old donor keyboards for keycaps. Shipping to my country is prohibitive and the evilBay heaven doesn't exist. More importantly, I stick to NIB only. At least wee bit more than ripster. :eyebrows:

What options are there for new DS keycaps for the Filco? The more the plastic, the better the sound/feel should become, right? If companies like Signature Plastics could make DS keycaps out of their library (no tooling setup), are there enough volunteers to combine? Nothing fancy, just the regular legends. Even if I would prefer light colours, it still doesn't matter.

[itlnstln]

Elitekeyboards was working with Signature Plastics at one point to make Filco replacement sets, but Majestouch said that he wasn't liking the samples they provided as he didn't feel they matched the Filco's profile quite right (IIRC).  That said, looking at how many people use Cherry double shots on their Filcos, I don't think most people would care too much about a minor difference in profile (I know I wouldn't), and demand would be high enough to get plenty of buyers for a group buy.  I think the problem has been getting someone to work with SP on setting up a group buy.

[woody]

Hmm, that's kinda good news. Makes me wonder why the online shops for mechanical keyboards haven't jumped onto the opportunity.

For sure, please sign me up for a group buy.

I read on GH that SP's Filco keycaps are bit light, is there any other manufacturer on the radar? At least from SP's site I get the feeling they have enough library so just a minimal order for a run is required (we cannot afford tooling setup). And if there is an option for thicker type of better plastic - that'll be cool, even if a key set results in the price range of $50-$100.

I'd want to help with organising this, but my location is wrong and I don't have the accumulated knowledge to do the specs. Would a sticky thread about this help?

[woody]

That's a problem, I probably have read your past post at some point. My main reason is putting keycaps heavier/thicker than the Filco's. (Yes, meatier)
There is still hope SP could offer other options for a price.
________
Toyota T transmission history

[lmnop]

what did they do to the plunger on the OCN keycap? looks more like a star.

[lmnop]

I think you need to have your eyes examined lol

[lmnop]

Trickery

[thcyash]

I have finally done it :



(sorry for the bad image quality, but no DSLR available atm,).

I am still looking for a G80-8113H*** donor keyboard to solve that "front row and Capslock problem"

Thank you to ripster and skcheng for the impressions :panda: ... i really love these bold legends of the ds caps

[nathanscribe]

What's the thing with replacing the keys - is it just that the originals wear quickly, or has the material thickness got something to do with it?  I have to say I like the look of some of these... I've been thinking of getting a tenkeyless blue lately and it's good to know the caps can be replaced for hardier ones if they go.

I've worn dints in my laptop keys... a few blank ones and some gouges.  Not attractive.

The US layout is looking good to me at the moment and is easily available here in the UK.  I like the look of the white one with black caps that was posted earlier, but the only white Filcos I've seen over here are browns/blacks, and I think I'd rather try the blues from what I've read about the brown.  Already have a black (from 1989) and it's OK but I've quickly come to prefer the buckling springs for typing.

[nathanscribe]

Oh yes.  Cough... I knew that...

Good stuff anyway.

[chet0]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Cherry-MultiBoard-8040-USB-Point-of-Sale-Keyboard-/280567529240?pt=AU_CashRegisters&hash=item415320bf18
Cherry Multiboard 8040

Does anyone know if these are Double Shot?

Are they compatible with the Filco?

Can't seem to find any information on them.

[ironman31]

Doesn't look like it to me, but you can always find out for sure if there is an "H" in the long model number

[db_Iodine]

Well I finally swapped the double shots from a g81-1800 to my Das. The lowest row has keys from my Ducky, because I wanted to put all the possible blank keys on my Ducky.





Here you can clearly see the difference with the Cherry doubleshots and a Ducky key (Rshift)



Overall, I think the Das feels a little bit nicer to type on after the swap. The keys are a little lower profile, which seems to help me not bottoming out the keys too much.

[itlnstln]

Cherry caps, the black ones at least, are the bomb.  You would think that the thicker caps would dampen some of the tactility, but really, they don't.

[db_Iodine]

The sound or the feel of the switches hasn't changed at all IMO. This made me found a new love for the Das, even though I really like compact size keyboards more now.

[db_Iodine]

I only had some minor problems with those damn stabilizers. Ducky uses those Cherry stabilizers which are so much easier to deal with.

[db_Iodine]

I did check out your key pulling guide before swapping the keys, and it did help me. Thanks for that.

[WaffleIron]

These keyboards turn out so great! Awesome job on the guide Ripster. Too bad it seems impossible to get a norwegian set. But I guess a Swedish/Finnish key-set would work fine...

Where did you get your keys db_Iodine?

[db_Iodine]

I bought a german layout Cherry G81-1800 from sixty here at geekhack. I'm not so sure how common these are, but I haven't seen any SWE/FI layout ones anywhere.

Oh, and welcome to geekhack!

[sixty]

I bought a german layout Cherry G81-1800 from sixty here at geekhack. I'm not so sure how common these are, but I haven't seen any SWE/FI layout ones anywhere.

Oh, and welcome to geekhack!

Black ones are pretty damn rare for anything but ISO.

[nathanscribe]

Not sure if these pics belong here, but I just got sixty's Cherry doubleshots in the post and deftly applied them to my Filco Tenkeyless w/blues.

Foubleshot v1:



And some angles to illustrate the difference in profile:




I added some more of the lighter keys.  Foubleshot v2:



... and v3:



...and v3 in situ (note how marvellously it blends with the other gear...):



I think v3 looks a bit messy really, but can't decide it it's down to the black Caps Lock or the bottom row, or just that there are too many colours on there.  Anyway, a big cheers to sixty for these caps.  :tea:

[nathanscribe]

Did you spot the Lego keyring torch man?  His feet light up, and his legs are independently movable.  Happy happy joy joy!

[pfink]

Not DoubleShot but extremely rare Deck Trucker Girl.  I think only Lmnop and I have one.

I bought a couple of the Deck linux keysets before they sold out, I think they came with a trucker girl key.

[pfink]

You want to trade one of these keys for that Deck Trucker Girl?

I can modify any of these novelty keys  in MX or Buckling Spring format.  If interested PM me.

I'll probably hang onto them for now but I'll let you know if I change my mind.

I believe you've also called dibs on the Camo Mini...

[Lewserr]

So will be getting my Filco MJ2 TKL ISO in the next couple of week and would like to do this mod on it. Been scouring through this thread for anyone else with an ISO layout (MorningSong seemed to have managed it) to pull it off and only found one keyboard mentioned with a UK layout. The Cherry G80-11900 HRM GB/01, but a quick google search has come up with nothing for any body selling one. So that leaves me with a few other options and I'm wondering which would be the best way to go.

1. G80-8113HRBUS-2 - Has a J shape enter key and a small "| \" for my ISO layout and every other key should fit perfectly other than the left shift afaik. This just leaves me with finding a board with the small left shift "` ¬ ¦", " 2 " ", "3 £", "@ '" and "~ #" keys.
2. There are some group buys going on, one for double shot replacement keys for filcos (just waiting to see if he can do black keys with white text) as there is a add-on kit for UK language as well which should leave me with a full keyboard. Not to mention I'd want the Star Wars and Starcraft keys as well.
3. There is another group buy going for 104 ANSI Official Cherry Double Shots which would just leave me to find the UK keys again.

Any recommendations on what to do? Or is there anybody else who has managed this with a UK ISO layout?