[GB] The Monarch: Alps 60%+LHTK (Shipped)

[vivalarevolución]

Guns and keyboards.  What a combo.

Any chance have an option with the numpad on the right as well?  Might do a lot to increase sales and reduce the price for everyone.  Although I'm not sure how much time it would take to modify the design files.

He stated in the interest check that switching the numpad to the right is not feasible. It would require a complete redesign of the pcb, etc. So it would just be too much time and cost.

Sorry, I never even saw the IC for this one.

[KaminKevCrew]

Guns and keyboards.  What a combo.

Any chance have an option with the numpad on the right as well?  Might do a lot to increase sales and reduce the price for everyone.  Although I'm not sure how much time it would take to modify the design files.

He stated in the interest check that switching the numpad to the right is not feasible. It would require a complete redesign of the pcb, etc. So it would just be too much time and cost.

Sorry, I never even saw the IC for this one.

No worries!

[koalapear]

UPDATE

Good news everyone! I've verified with the Cerakote place that custom colors will be doable! That means that you will be able to choose from 84 different colors! 

Here is a chart showing what's available:



I highly recommend looking up the color(s) you are interested in to see what the actually look like when applied, as the difference between the swatch and the actual applied look can be quite different!

If you've already placed an order and wish to change your color choice just let me know! 

[stoic-lemon]

This announcement both pleases me and fills me with woe.

[KaminKevCrew]

UPDATE

Good news everyone! I've verified with the Cerakote place that custom colors will be doable! That means that you will be able to choose from 84 different colors! 

Here is a chart showing what's available:

Show Image

If you've already placed an order and wish to change your color choice just let me know!  :thumb:

Bright purple for me, please!

[romevi]

This announcement both pleases me and fills me with woe.

This. Went from being easy to pick to too many.
Might just go with Titanium Blue.

[Delirious]

Need prison pink in my life

[koalapear]

Howdy Koala - sorry if you've answered this before and I missed it. Would you be willing to offer assembly if we shipped you some switches ahead of time? While I'd love a DIY project I just don't trust myself with something this nice.

Also - sorry if noob, but does the PCB have LED/side-LED support? That acrylic piece would like miiighty nice with something shining through it

I might consider assembly. Keep in mind all you need to do soldering wise is the switches as the rest of the components are going to be installed on the PCB from the fabricator so it's pretty simple stuff. As far as the case lighting goes, I considered it but  it meant that an additional chip would have to be added to the board and I personally thought lighting wasn't really needed.

Bummer - I do love the look of the board but unfortunately that takes it out of the running for me. Best of luck with the GB!

With keyboard GBs I'm realizing it's pretty standard to have the keyboards unassembled. They're more DIY kits to cater to as many people's switch preferences as possible.
I know nothing about soldering, but with two of my hobbies being in keyboards and retro game consoles, where repairing and customizing systems also requires soldering, I'm just going to buy a machine and learn. It'll save me money and I won't have to rely on someone else's backed-up schedule to have my board assembled.

Sorry, just to clarify I was talking about the LED thing. I totally get the rationale behind unassembled kits.

I thought you'd want to know that skullydazed is working on adding LED case lighting support to the PCB! 

[njbair]

Any thoughts on ANSI support?

[koalapear]

Any thoughts on ANSI support?

Unfortunately I don't think ANSI is going to be viable since I would have to pay double for the setup on both laser and CNC. Also, seeing as it's looking like there's barely going to be enough interest to make it to production as it is it would just cost too much.   

[njbair]

Any thoughts on ANSI support?

Unfortunately I don't think ANSI is going to be viable since I would have to pay double for the setup on both laser and CNC. Also, seeing as it's looking like there's barely going to be enough interest to make it to production as it is it would just cost too much.   

Are you sure about the double setup fees? The two plates are nearly identical, I would think they could count as one setup.

[stoic-lemon]

I'm confused about the question of ANSI support. What layout does this support and how does it differ from ANSI? I assume the issue is that the AEKII is not a standard layout on the bottom row. Thus anyone buying this board is locked into that exact layout?

[koalapear]

I'm confused about the question of ANSI support. What layout does this support and how does it differ from ANSI? I assume the issue is that the AEKII is not a standard layout on the bottom row. Thus anyone buying this board is locked into that exact layout?

Yeah the AEKII bottom row along with the non standard numpad limit you to AEKII caps.

As far as the setup costs go I think the only way two layouts would be viable price wise would be if I got 50+ orders.

[stoic-lemon]

I'm confused about the question of ANSI support. What layout does this support and how does it differ from ANSI? I assume the issue is that the AEKII is not a standard layout on the bottom row. Thus anyone buying this board is locked into that exact layout?

Yeah the AEKII bottom row along with the non standard numpad limit you to AEKII caps.

As far as the setup costs go I think the only way two layouts would be viable price wise would be if I got 50+ orders.

OK, well I'm set then since I got an AEKII a few weeks back. I think the Alpine Winter set will support this layout too right? So the only other thing people need to worry about is stabilisers, which there is a GB for and bending a wire for the spacebar.

50 orders might be a stretch considering this is likely to be a pricey keyboard all things considered. If you are new to the world of Alps like myself it will be particularly hard on your wallet.

[Jersern]

Alpine winter doesn't have a numpad tho.

[stoic-lemon]

Alpine winter doesn't have a numpad tho.

Lol and think I pointed that out to someone in this very thread. Yeah so this board has a pretty high bar for entry.

[livingspeedbump]

Hey got out of the Mira buy, so Definitely going to be looking at getting in on this one asap  This is some great work you've done here.

[koalapear]

I'm confused about the question of ANSI support. What layout does this support and how does it differ from ANSI? I assume the issue is that the AEKII is not a standard layout on the bottom row. Thus anyone buying this board is locked into that exact layout?

Yeah the AEKII bottom row along with the non standard numpad limit you to AEKII caps.

As far as the setup costs go I think the only way two layouts would be viable price wise would be if I got 50+ orders.

OK, well I'm set then since I got an AEKII a few weeks back. I think the Alpine Winter set will support this layout too right? So the only other thing people need to worry about is stabilisers, which there is a GB for and bending a wire for the spacebar.

50 orders might be a stretch considering this is likely to be a pricey keyboard all things considered. If you are new to the world of Alps like myself it will be particularly hard on your wallet.

This is true. I've tried my best to be reasonable with the price. As it stands you can have a completed Monarch for a little over $300 if you can get a cheaper AEKII and use the dampened creams from it along with the caps and stabs. I realize that's expensive but it's around the price a lot of people pay for other customs (granted this one doesn't appeal to as many people as your standard MX custom).

[tofgerl]

What you should do is get a lot of 25 broken AEK2 with perfect caps, switchs and stabs, and sell them with the Monarch. Should be easy, right?

[livingspeedbump]

I'm confused about the question of ANSI support. What layout does this support and how does it differ from ANSI? I assume the issue is that the AEKII is not a standard layout on the bottom row. Thus anyone buying this board is locked into that exact layout?

Yeah the AEKII bottom row along with the non standard numpad limit you to AEKII caps.

As far as the setup costs go I think the only way two layouts would be viable price wise would be if I got 50+ orders.

OK, well I'm set then since I got an AEKII a few weeks back. I think the Alpine Winter set will support this layout too right? So the only other thing people need to worry about is stabilisers, which there is a GB for and bending a wire for the spacebar.

50 orders might be a stretch considering this is likely to be a pricey keyboard all things considered. If you are new to the world of Alps like myself it will be particularly hard on your wallet.

This is true. I've tried my best to be reasonable with the price. As it stands you can have a completed Monarch for a little over $300 if you can get a cheaper AEKII and use the dampened creams from it along with the caps and stabs. I realize that's expensive but it's around the price a lot of people pay for other customs (granted this one doesn't appeal to as many people as your standard MX custom).

$300 for a full custom isn't bad at all. Thats $5 less than an HHKB Type S haha. Alps switches are also quite cheap, so buying all new switches wouldnt be a very expensive option either.

[stoic-lemon]

I'm confused about the question of ANSI support. What layout does this support and how does it differ from ANSI? I assume the issue is that the AEKII is not a standard layout on the bottom row. Thus anyone buying this board is locked into that exact layout?

Yeah the AEKII bottom row along with the non standard numpad limit you to AEKII caps.

As far as the setup costs go I think the only way two layouts would be viable price wise would be if I got 50+ orders.

OK, well I'm set then since I got an AEKII a few weeks back. I think the Alpine Winter set will support this layout too right? So the only other thing people need to worry about is stabilisers, which there is a GB for and bending a wire for the spacebar.

50 orders might be a stretch considering this is likely to be a pricey keyboard all things considered. If you are new to the world of Alps like myself it will be particularly hard on your wallet.

This is true. I've tried my best to be reasonable with the price. As it stands you can have a completed Monarch for a little over $300 if you can get a cheaper AEKII and use the dampened creams from it along with the caps and stabs. I realize that's expensive but it's around the price a lot of people pay for other customs (granted this one doesn't appeal to as many people as your standard MX custom).

$300 for a full custom isn't bad at all. Thats $5 less than an HHKB Type S haha. Alps switches are also quite cheap, so buying all new switches wouldnt be a very expensive option either.

It's such a unique board, that I think it will be hard for many to pass up. We all love fancy colours too.

[E3E]

This is a fantastic price and holy **** on the amount of colors available! I bet everyone in this GB could potentially have a completely unique Monarch. Sadly, I have made priorities elsewhere, but this is fantastic and I have enjoyed the concept of this board since I first saw Koalapear's custom build on Reddit. :3

Good luck with the buy!

[petrock]

Can I be in for just a PCB?

[KaminKevCrew]

I'm confused about the question of ANSI support. What layout does this support and how does it differ from ANSI? I assume the issue is that the AEKII is not a standard layout on the bottom row. Thus anyone buying this board is locked into that exact layout?

Yeah the AEKII bottom row along with the non standard numpad limit you to AEKII caps.

As far as the setup costs go I think the only way two layouts would be viable price wise would be if I got 50+ orders.

OK, well I'm set then since I got an AEKII a few weeks back. I think the Alpine Winter set will support this layout too right? So the only other thing people need to worry about is stabilisers, which there is a GB for and bending a wire for the spacebar.

50 orders might be a stretch considering this is likely to be a pricey keyboard all things considered. If you are new to the world of Alps like myself it will be particularly hard on your wallet.

This is true. I've tried my best to be reasonable with the price. As it stands you can have a completed Monarch for a little over $300 if you can get a cheaper AEKII and use the dampened creams from it along with the caps and stabs. I realize that's expensive but it's around the price a lot of people pay for other customs (granted this one doesn't appeal to as many people as your standard MX custom).

I don't know how many orders you've gotten, but if it does happen, I would be down for an ANSI layout.

Also, I know I asked you to put me down for purple, but could I have the top plate in purple, and the bottom plate in burnt bronze for the time being?

I have a 60% build that I'm working on in that color scheme, and I'd like to have one of these in those colors as well...

[tofgerl]

It might have been easier to just do it the Henry Ford way, "Any color you like as long as it's black!"

[stoic-lemon]

Isn't the color just for the top plate? The OP says 'plates' so suppose it is for the whole shebang. Makes sense.

I fear for koalapear's sanity if he allows people to have two different colours, though.

[koalapear]

Isn't the color just for the top plate?

The top and bottom plates will both be finished in Cerakote.

[romevi]

Isn't the color just for the top plate?

The top and bottom plates will both be finished in Cerakote.

Do you realize what you've done? Preeeeetty sure you've just t quadrupled your order count.

[skullydazed]

Good news everyone! I've finished adding pads for underlighting to the PCB. If you want your monarch to glow all you have to do is add your own resistors and LED's. They're connected directly to VCC because all the pins are already used, so you won't have control over brightness or the ability to turn them off, but on the other hand adding them should be easy for just about anyone. You can see them here:



There are 6 LEDs across the top and bottom of the board, and 2 at each end, for a total of 16 SMD LEDs. Resistors should be 0805 footprint and 100-200ohm (depending on your LEDs) and the LEDs can be anything from 0805 up to 1210. The board will come from the fab house with a layer of soldier on each pad, so you can in theory tack your parts down without using any soldier. When I did this job on a different board I had fabbed I found that a tiny coat of flux and a dab of soldier paste makes the soldiering process damn near foolproof.

If you don't want LED's, but you do want to hack on your monarch, this section of the board should interest you:



Those are the through hole resistors for the capslock and clear (numlock) LEDs. However, if you skip those LEDs you can use those pins for your own purpose, they connect to B6 and C6 on the atmega32u4. I have left you a set of VCC/GND header pins in that same area, so adding something to your monarch should be easy.

[ika]

Does the time frame work out to get in on bluenalgenes Matias switches gb? He's close enough on a couple of break points so they would be pretty cheap.

Also re led lighting, would it be possible to add a variable resistor (I. E. Potentiometer) to tune led resistance /brightness?

[ideus]

This board looks amazing, good job. I'd love to see a 60% version compatible with Pokers and GONs PCBs already available.

[skullydazed]

This board looks amazing, good job. I'd love to see a 60% version compatible with Pokers and GONs PCBs already available.

Thanks! Alps Party has you covered for a 60%.

Also re led lighting, would it be possible to add a variable resistor (I. E. Potentiometer) to tune led resistance /brightness?

Unfortunately LED's don't really work that way, they're an on or off sorta device. You can affect the brightness within a narrow range with a pot, but you would need one pot per LED, and this would shorten the life of the LED and run the risk of heating up the pot if you adjusted it too far out of range.

There are other possibilities we considered, but they all require adding more components and/or sacrificing one of the indicator LEDs. There are basically 4 possible outcomes, here's a straw poll to help me figure out what will make the most people happy:

http://strawpoll.me/5695960

Please vote in that poll so I can design this for the community.

[skullydazed]

Sorry, one thing to keep in mind when you're voting in that poll-

If you have controllable underlighting, you will have to soldier on a FET and another resistor. You will also lose one of the indicator LEDs (either capslock or numlock).

[njbair]

I'm not in the buy yet (still losing sleep over the decision), but I just voted for controllable LEDs. You don't even have to include the FET or anything, just add a spot for it on the PCB.

[koalapear]

UPDATE:

Alpine Winter Blank Numberpad:
njbair has been kind enough to reach out to me and offer to add a blank numberpad kit for Alpine Winter exclusive to the Monarch!
You can add one or more to your order for $16/set. Keep in mind that if you wish to order an Alpine Winter base set to go with it you will have to order direct from njbair here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HJET5Vl006sj6VUkNGoecomV83H5f8qu8G4ZpjdER3g/viewform?c=0&w=1
If you do order an Alpine Winter base set as well both the numberpad and the base set will be shipped along with your Monarch order so you don't have to pay shipping twice.
All orders for the numberpad will be invoiced by njbair.



Unfortunately seeing as Alpine Winter will have Cherry stab mounts I believe special wires will needed to be used so that the Cherry stab inserts can be used with the Alps style plate inserts. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

Case Lighting Support:

Also, skullydazed has updated the PCB design to support caselighting! He's still finalizing the design but your Monarch PCB will have pads to allow you to add a total of 16 SMD LEDs for case lighting if you so choose!



More info on this in his post above: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.msg1891046#msg1891046

[romevi]

UPDATE:

Apline Winter Blank Numberpad:
njbair has been kind enough to reach out to me and offer to add a blank numberpad kit for Alpine Winter exclusive to the Monarch!
You can add one or more to your order for $16/set. Keep in mind that if you wish to order an Alpine Winter base set to go with it you will have to order direct from njbair here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HJET5Vl006sj6VUkNGoecomV83H5f8qu8G4ZpjdER3g/viewform?c=0&w=1
If you do order an Alpine Winter base set as well both the numberpad and the base set will be shipped along with your Monarch order so you don't have to pay shipping twice.
All orders for the numberpad will be invoiced by njbair.

Show Image

Unfortunately seeing as Alpine Winter will have Cherry stab mounts I believe special wires will needed to be used so that the Cherry stab inserts can be used with the Alps style plate inserts. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

Case Lighting Support:

Also, skullydazed has updated the PCB design to support caselighting! He's still finalizing the design but your Monarch PCB will have pads to allow you to add a total of 16 SMD LEDs for case lighting if you so choose!

Show Image

More info on this in his post above: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.msg1891046#msg1891046

Breh...

[njbair]

Woot!

Yeah, the stabilizer situation is not as straightforward but all that has been discussed in the Alps Party GB thread.

My recommendation is to get in on BlueNalgene's Matias stabilizer GB. It includes a full set of Alps stabilizers, plus Cherry stab brackets for the caps. It's only like $10 so get in now before that buy closes.

Anyone who's not on mobile and wants to post a link to the stabilizer buy, that would be cool.

One more quick note, this was made possible at the last minute due to a separate circumstance that I can't really talk about right now. But suffice it to say that one of the conditions here is that the extra set has to be exclusive to Monarch buyers.

[romevi]

Woot!

Yeah, the stabilizer situation is not as straightforward but all that has been discussed in the Alps Party GB thread.

My recommendation is to get in on BlueNalgene's Matias stabilizer GB. It includes a full set of Alps stabilizers, plus Cherry stab brackets for the caps. It's only like $10 so get in now before that buy closes.

Anyone who's not on mobile and wants to post a link to the stabilizer buy, that would be cool.

One more quick note, this was made possible at the last minute due to a separate circumstance that I can't really talk about right now. But suffice it to say that one of the conditions here is that the extra set has to be exclusive to Monarch buyers.

I think the stab GB already closed.

[njbair]

Woot!

Yeah, the stabilizer situation is not as straightforward but all that has been discussed in the Alps Party GB thread.

My recommendation is to get in on BlueNalgene's Matias stabilizer GB. It includes a full set of Alps stabilizers, plus Cherry stab brackets for the caps. It's only like $10 so get in now before that buy closes.

Anyone who's not on mobile and wants to post a link to the stabilizer buy, that would be cool.

One more quick note, this was made possible at the last minute due to a separate circumstance that I can't really talk about right now. But suffice it to say that one of the conditions here is that the extra set has to be exclusive to Monarch buyers.

I think the stab GB already closed.

Well, the sets are only about $10 on www.matias.ca anyways.

[romevi]

Woot!

Yeah, the stabilizer situation is not as straightforward but all that has been discussed in the Alps Party GB thread.

My recommendation is to get in on BlueNalgene's Matias stabilizer GB. It includes a full set of Alps stabilizers, plus Cherry stab brackets for the caps. It's only like $10 so get in now before that buy closes.

Anyone who's not on mobile and wants to post a link to the stabilizer buy, that would be cool.

One more quick note, this was made possible at the last minute due to a separate circumstance that I can't really talk about right now. But suffice it to say that one of the conditions here is that the extra set has to be exclusive to Monarch buyers.

I think the stab GB already closed.

Well, the sets are only about $10 on www.matias.ca anyways.

Good to know! I'll have to buy a set eventually.

Also, in regards to Cerakote colors, will we have the option to pick two different colors, one for the top and one for the bottom, or is it going to be just one color?
And what's the difference between H- and C- legend colors? I knew right away I wanted a sort of silver-blue color for this, and settled on Blue Titanium, but almost every sample picture they have shows Blue Titanium differently!

If we can choose two colors, I may go with Shimmer Gold with either Tungsten or Blue Titanium.

[koalapear]

Woot!

Yeah, the stabilizer situation is not as straightforward but all that has been discussed in the Alps Party GB thread.

My recommendation is to get in on BlueNalgene's Matias stabilizer GB. It includes a full set of Alps stabilizers, plus Cherry stab brackets for the caps. It's only like $10 so get in now before that buy closes.

Anyone who's not on mobile and wants to post a link to the stabilizer buy, that would be cool.

One more quick note, this was made possible at the last minute due to a separate circumstance that I can't really talk about right now. But suffice it to say that one of the conditions here is that the extra set has to be exclusive to Monarch buyers.

I think the stab GB already closed.

Well, the sets are only about $10 on www.matias.ca anyways.

Good to know! I'll have to buy a set eventually.

Also, in regards to Cerakote colors, will we have the option to pick two different colors, one for the top and one for the bottom, or is it going to be just one color?
And what's the difference between H- and C- legend colors? I knew right away I wanted a sort of silver-blue color for this, and settled on Blue Titanium, but almost every sample picture they have shows Blue Titanium differently!

If we can choose two colors, I may go with Shimmer Gold with either Tungsten or Blue Titanium.

There are two types of Cerakote, one that air dies (C), and one that is oven cured (H). The air dry formula is used for high temperature applications, such as gun suppressors, and for those in which the item being coated cannot withstand the oven curing process, such as polymer frames on some guns. The oven cured formula is much much more abrasion resistant but is not as temperature resistant. The over cured formula is the more popular of the two and is what will be used on the Monarch.

Different color top and bottom plates shouldn't be an issue, just specify it in the Other section of your order! 

As far as the colors looking different on some pictures keep in mind that some of what you may be seeing is Blue Titanium mixed with another color of Cerakote so make sure the picture is depicting pure Blue Titanium!

[Delirious]

I am definitely in this group buy, the problem is I am still struggling on deciding the color, now that we can have separate options for top and bottom it's even harder .__.

[romevi]

Woot!

Yeah, the stabilizer situation is not as straightforward but all that has been discussed in the Alps Party GB thread.

My recommendation is to get in on BlueNalgene's Matias stabilizer GB. It includes a full set of Alps stabilizers, plus Cherry stab brackets for the caps. It's only like $10 so get in now before that buy closes.

Anyone who's not on mobile and wants to post a link to the stabilizer buy, that would be cool.

One more quick note, this was made possible at the last minute due to a separate circumstance that I can't really talk about right now. But suffice it to say that one of the conditions here is that the extra set has to be exclusive to Monarch buyers.

I think the stab GB already closed.

Well, the sets are only about $10 on www.matias.ca anyways.

Good to know! I'll have to buy a set eventually.

Also, in regards to Cerakote colors, will we have the option to pick two different colors, one for the top and one for the bottom, or is it going to be just one color?
And what's the difference between H- and C- legend colors? I knew right away I wanted a sort of silver-blue color for this, and settled on Blue Titanium, but almost every sample picture they have shows Blue Titanium differently!

If we can choose two colors, I may go with Shimmer Gold with either Tungsten or Blue Titanium.

There are two types of Cerakote, one that air dies (C), and one that is oven cured (H). The air dry formula is used for high temperature applications, such as gun suppressors, and for those in which the item being coated cannot withstand the oven curing process, such as polymer frames on some guns. The oven cured formula is much much more abrasion resistant but is not as temperature resistant. The over cured formula is the more popular of the two and is what will be used on the Monarch.

Different color top and bottom plates shouldn't be an issue, just specify it in the Other section of your order! 

As far as the colors looking different on some pictures keep in mind that some of what you may be seeing is Blue Titanium mixed with another color of Cerakote so make sure the picture is depicting pure Blue Titanium!

Ah, I didn't even think about mixed colors. That makes more sense.

Blue Titanium and Shimmer Gold for me!

[dutC4]

 

[calvinhousecat]

This may seem really far fetch, but do you offer assembly?

[koalapear]

This may seem really far fetch, but do you offer assembly?

I don't think that should be an issue. However, keep in mind that all that needs to be done soldering-wise would be the switches (and case lighting if you so desire) so it's pretty easy stuff. You would need to send me the switches/LEDs and resistors necessary ahead of time though as well as pay an additional assembly fee.

[Jersern]

Koala, would it be possible to sell the SMD parts for the LEDs? They're a bit of a pain to find here in Australia. Also if soldering SMD parts is possible that would be even more amazing though I guess I could probably do it myself with a bit of practice.

[njbair]

So just curious, what's the status on order numbers? I'm still really conflicted about joining. I want one really badly but I'm not sure it's financially wise for me right now. Sigh.

[koalapear]

Koala, would it be possible to sell the SMD parts for the LEDs? They're a bit of a pain to find here in Australia. Also if soldering SMD parts is possible that would be even more amazing though I guess I could probably do it myself with a bit of practice.

I think I would prefer to let the LEDs be up to the buyer seeing as I'd imagine most would want to do their own color. The compatible LEDs and resistors can both be found on eBay for very cheap.

So just curious, what's the status on order numbers? I'm still really conflicted about joining. I want one really badly but I'm not sure it's financially wise for me right now. Sigh.

At the moment there are 9 orders. Overall not as much interest as I had hoped for but it's understandable seeing how niche and expensive this board is. I am hopeful that orders will pick up as the close date nears, but at the moment it appears that getting enough orders for production is going to be a stretch.

[njbair]

I am amazed that there aren't more orders for this thing. Maybe you're right, and the combination of LHTK and Alps is too obscure. But this is one of the most well-done sub-$300 customs I've seen.

I can speak for myself that if this board gets made and I don't get one, I'm going to regret that decision every time I see one.