Best mouse for FPS games?

[hdsound]

I use apple magicmouse. But  It feels like bad for fps gaming.

Could you recommed some mouse for gaming?(Fps and etc games)

[L4yercake]

Razer Deathadder, SS Sensei, or one of Zowie variants.

Deathadder has the best tracking ability imo. Sensei and Zowie feel great to hold.

[Turbo Slaab]

I like the crispness of the buttons on my g9x, however ergonomics wise I like the CM Xornet. It's one of those "everybodys different" things.

[hdsound]

Isn't there fever phenomenon in using Death adder?

[deSheol]

There's the IME 3.0, one of the best mouse ever made, but it has old engine.. I use sensei for everything, I just bought da 2013 too, but its too light for me, so I went back to sensei

[L4yercake]

There's the IME 3.0, one of the best mouse ever made, but it has old engine.. I use sensei for everything, I just bought da 2013 too, but its too light for me, so I went back to sensei

Funny I just asked a friend about this.

IO1.1 is also pretty popular with some of the old-school CS players.

[deSheol]

There's the IME 3.0, one of the best mouse ever made, but it has old engine.. I use sensei for everything, I just bought da 2013 too, but its too light for me, so I went back to sensei

Funny I just asked a friend about this.

IO1.1 is also pretty popular with some of the old-school CS players.

Io 1.1 and ime 3.0 is very popular among the cs player

[vun]

It all comes down to preference, there is no "best" mouse for gaming. However, I would recommend getting a mouse with a decent, preferably flawless, sensor, but the most important thing is that you find one with a shape that fits you.

So unless you can tell us roughly what you want in a mouse then all we can do is list a bunch of mice at random.

But as far as "safe" recommendations go;
Palm grip:
Razer DeathAdder
Logitech G400

Fingertip/claw:
Razer Abyssus
CM Storm Xornet

edit; post 700, yay

[CTollemache]

Razer Deathadder, SS Sensei, or one of Zowie variants.

Deathadder has the best tracking ability imo. Sensei and Zowie feel great to hold.

Yes for the Zowie! the EC1 feels just like an Intellimouse 3.0. I was so gutted when Microsoft stopped making them.

[Shuki]

If you like the shape of the apple mouse probably go for a G100s or a Zowie am or fk. Both are slightly bigger than the apple with a higher profile but have a general long and narrower profile. All depends if that's the shape you are looking for.

All of the mice mentioned are fine in terms of performance, however it all depends on the shape you want really. I would prefer a mouse with subpar performance that fits my hand, than a perfect sensor with an awful shape.

[fuzzybaffy]

I think the Taipan has an awesome shape. It's very narrow, so it literally "gets out of the way" so to speak, as I'm gaming. It really helps me with the flow, when I'm gaming.

Also, some people have complained that the Taipan has some sort of sensor "lag", but, I actually think it's a software issue. Because people with the newest Deathadder 2013 version noticed a similar thing, yet the Deathadder and the Taipan use different sensors (optical vs. laser). Also, with the newest Razer Synapse software (1.07.15), I honestly don't notice it anymore. So, it seems to me it was initially a software thing, and Razer changed it with the drivers.

Also, I've tried G700, G9x, Deathadder, Sensei, and G400. For me, personally (I understand it may be different for everybody), the Taipan works best for me.

And, yes, it's great with FPS games, or, at least with Crysis 3. Haven't tried anything like CS, yet. Because of its slim form-factor, the mouse cursor goes literally where my hand/fingers go. It doesn't feel like I'm actually moving a "mouse" to move the pointer, but rather, just my hand. It's helps me with the flow of the game, and it's a good feeling.

[Batou]

I did try many logitech and some razer but at the end...really cheap solution and probably not much reliable but i've purchased 5 of these so far for all of my pc and i love them:
http://www.trust.com/products/product.aspx?artnr=15864
I did play bc2 and bf3, for big hands it's a perfect mouse. 2 cents!
Well, a good friend of mine with a K/D of 3.5 on bf3 says razer imperator is the best but i don't love razer products...

[Abacus1234]

I have tried so many mice. Pretty much every major brand out there. I think the Logitech g9x is the best mouse you can buy, personally. My runner up is the Corsair Vengeance M60 or M65. The M65 has a higher DPI sensor, but that probably wont make a difference to you, since the M60 already goes up to 5700 I think.

[Grim Fandango]

I think that what is best depends on what works for you. Some things to avoid are mice with a low max tracking speed, mice that do not track well on your preferred surface, mice that do not fit your grip and mice that have severe acceleration and prediction. Lift of distance seems to be more of a personal preference than anything else (as is prediction really)

Beyond those things, it is all up to you. When it comes to the quality of the sensor, the optical sensors are still the best on the market. They typically have a lower DPI than laser sensors, but track on more surfaces and do not have any acceleration issues. Some of the mice that fall into this category are the Zowie mice, G400, Deathadder 3G&3.5G, Abyssus etc.

That said, acceleration is not as awful as some make it out to be. In the pro-scene, there are many top players that play with mice that some deem inferior/unusable. If the acceleration is consistent, it is perfectly possible to adjust and get used to it. We see this in a lot of Steelseries mice. Pro teams like Fnatic, SK, NIP etc. use a lot of them. Example : http://www.nip-gaming.se/the-team/ The Xai, kana and ikari optical seem popular in the pro circuit. Even the sensei with its Avago 9500 laser sensor seems to be used.

Also note that some of the popular mice that you often see recommended on boards, and flagship models (which often add needless things like adjustable weights, lights etc) are virtually non-existent in the competitive scene.

[Johan]

Well of course they'll use Those mice, they get paid to use them. Besides when you get good enought at a game you can pretty much use any gear and still play at your best.

[RatPatrol01]

We see this in a lot of Steelseries mice. Pro teams like Fnatic, SK, NIP etc. use a lot of them. Example : http://www.nip-gaming.se/the-team/ The Xai, kana and ikari optical seem popular in the pro circuit. Even the sensei with its Avago 9500 laser sensor seems to be used.

At least in Sensei I'm pretty sure you can disable or counter the 5% acceleration inherent to the sensor

[swagpiratex]

My two favorites are the Deathadder and the Logitech G9x. Sensei RAW is really good too

[flaming_june]

We see this in a lot of Steelseries mice. Pro teams like Fnatic, SK, NIP etc. use a lot of them. Example : http://www.nip-gaming.se/the-team/ The Xai, kana and ikari optical seem popular in the pro circuit. Even the sensei with its Avago 9500 laser sensor seems to be used.

At least in Sensei I'm pretty sure you can disable or counter the 5% acceleration inherent to the sensor

Can you explain how?  I'd like to learn.

[RatPatrol01]

As far as I know you can just do it through the software or through mouse's controls and the screen on the underside, that's how it is with my Xai which has the same sensor as the Sensei last I checked..

[vun]

There is no way to disable the acceleration in laser sensors as it is a limitation of the current technology used in those sensors, and from the graphs I've seen the accel is fairly inconsistent so even if there was a software setting to counteract it I doubt it would be reliable.
But there is no such setting in the SteelSeries Engine software.

[Grim Fandango]

Well of course they'll use Those mice, they get paid to use them. Besides when you get good enought at a game you can pretty much use any gear and still play at your best.

Yes, this was exactly my point. I was not trying to say they choose these mice because they are the best ones, I was trying to say that these mice have some of the issues people mention in this thread, and they do well regardless.

[domoaligato]

optical's are better for fps gaming because of the negative/positive acceleration issues with laser mice.
I played with a logitech g9x for years until I read the sticky threads on OCN about negative/positive acceleration.
It was very hard for me to pick out a mouse that I liked.
I could not decide between the Steelseries ikari optical or the razor deathadder 2013.
So I bought both.

Since you stated you were using a magicmouse I am assuming your using a Mac?

Mac Gaming
Razer Synapse 2.0 is available for mac here.
http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=860mac.

Steelseries engine is available for mac as well
http://steelseries.com/support/downloads

If you plan on updating the firmware on a steelseries mouse you will need a pc for a few minutes.

For the FPS mouse fix for MAC OSX to disable acceleration read this thread..
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=16205.0


Windows Gaming
here is a little info that may help you setup your pc for fps gaming properly if you do have a pc.

install mouse fix from here
http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html

go to the mouse control panel and set your sens to 6/10 (default setting)
uncheck enhance mouse precision

reboot your pc

install the software for your mouse and adjust to your liking.


I play cs:go. what fps are you playing?

Cs:go Setup
for cs:go my setup is like this (I have a pc but it is the same for a mac)

1100 dpi in razor synapse with deathadder 2013

CS:GO Launch Options

open Steam
Open the library
Right click on Counter-strike: Global Offensive
Click Properties
Click Set Launch Options
Paste this in the box and change the 60 to 120 if you have a 120 hertz monitor
-noforcemparms -noforcemspd -noforcemaccel -novid -freq 60 -console +gl_nullqueries 1 +exec autoexec.cfg

in game console commands for mouse settings

m_rawinput "1"
m_mouseaccel1 "0"
m_mouseaccel2 "0"
m_mousespeed "0"
m_customaccel "0"
m_customaccel_exponent "0"
m_customaccel_max "0"
m_customaccel_scale "0.00
sensitivity "1.0"
zoom_sensitivity_ratio_mouse "1.0"

I use 1.0 in game and control my sens with the dpi adjustment from synapse.
If you find that you can not find a in between because it only allows steps of 100 dpi at a time then set your dpi to the lower value and fine tune your ingame sens to compensate.


crosshair settings
orums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2870925

[vun]

Be careful with Synapse dpi, optical sensors usually only have a few dpi steps, setting the dpi in Synapse to anything other than those steps will interpolate the dpi and sensitivity settings to resemble the dpi you want. I'm not sure what this means for precision as I haven't tested it, but just something to keep in mind in case you're not getting the precision you want.

[domoaligato]

Be careful with Synapse dpi, optical sensors usually only have a few dpi steps, setting the dpi in Synapse to anything other than those steps will interpolate the dpi and sensitivity settings to resemble the dpi you want. I'm not sure what this means for precision as I haven't tested it, but just something to keep in mind in case you're not getting the precision you want.

If you find that you can not find a in between because it only allows steps of 100 dpi at a time then set your dpi to the lower value and fine tune your ingame sens to compensate.

Synapse allows control of dpi on the deathadder 2013 from 100-6400 in 100 dpi steps.
what I was saying is that if you find that 1100 dpi is to slow and 1200 dpi is to fast... use 1100dpi in synapse and slowly raise your ingame sens to make up for the difference.

I do not like linking stickies from OCN but this article is a very good read.
http://www.overclock.net/t/173255/cs-s-mouse-optimization-guide

[vun]

I'll use my DA 3.5G as an example here; I believe the sensor has dpi steps of 450, 900, 1800 and 3500 if memory serves me right, most optical sensors will have steps like that, yet Synapse does 100 steps, as you said. However, it doesn't set dpi; if you choose 900 with the DA 3.5G it sets it to 900dpi, but if you set it to something like 1200 it will most likely set dpi to 900 or 1800 and then adjust driver sensitivity to emulate 1200 dpi.
Now, in practice this will probably not make any noticeable difference, but I can't say for sure as I haven't looked into it much nor done much testing on my own, but it could possibly adversely affect precision in a similar manner to how windows sensitivity settings other than 6/11 does.

But like I said, I don't know too much about it and there is no real evidence saying that it's bad, but just keep that in mind.

Edit;
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I've gathered you'll need a laser sensor if you want to adjust dpi in increments of 100, so far I haven't seen any optical sensors that can be adjusted in 100 dpi steps.

[L4yercake]

Sensei tracking is a deathtrap. I know of multiple pro gamers that curse it but still use it due to sponsor-ship.

[domoaligato]

I'll use my DA 3.5G as an example here; I believe the sensor has dpi steps of 450, 900, 1800 and 3500 if memory serves me right, most optical sensors will have steps like that, yet Synapse does 100 steps, as you said. However, it doesn't set dpi; if you choose 900 with the DA 3.5G it sets it to 900dpi, but if you set it to something like 1200 it will most likely set dpi to 900 or 1800 and then adjust driver sensitivity to emulate 1200 dpi.
Now, in practice this will probably not make any noticeable difference, but I can't say for sure as I haven't looked into it much nor done much testing on my own, but it could possibly adversely affect precision in a similar manner to how windows sensitivity settings other than 6/11 does.

But like I said, I don't know too much about it and there is no real evidence saying that it's bad, but just keep that in mind.

Edit;
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I've gathered you'll need a laser sensor if you want to adjust dpi in increments of 100, so far I haven't seen any optical sensors that can be adjusted in 100 dpi steps.

thanks for more detailed description.

[flaming_june]

Sensei tracking is a deathtrap. I know of multiple pro gamers that curse it but still use it due to sponsor-ship.

I get angry at mine sometime.  All of a sudden the cursor would go further down then what I feel it should.

[deSheol]

I used to love my IME 3.0, but the scroll is very annoying.. so I got the DA 2013 instead. I have a Sensei too.

[Leslieann]

Personally, I really like the G700.

I can't do wired.
The cords simply don't last and I always feel as though I'm fighting them. And yes, you can disable acceleration.

[vun]

Personally, I really like the G700.

I can't do wired.
The cords simply don't last and I always feel as though I'm fighting them. And yes, you can disable acceleration.

G700 has a laser sensor, so there will always be a small amount of hardware acceleration.
Although with the G700 it doesn't matter at all, since if you needed so much control over your mouse that the laser accel is a problem then you wouldn't go wireless.

[Leslieann]

G700 has a laser sensor, so there will always be a small amount of hardware acceleration.
Although with the G700 it doesn't matter at all, since if you needed so much control over your mouse that the laser accel is a problem then you wouldn't go wireless.

A lot of that whole argument is personal preference and arguments about older designs, most of which were terrible.

Some people actually prefer at least some acceleration and I would bet 99.9999% of people would never even notice laser acceleration in a game. A lot comes down to adjusting. As for the wireless lag, again, older argument and at this point wireless is good enough to where you could make just as compelling an argument about how much dragging the cord around effects your game (which was my problem and why I went wireless).

Yes, gaming on an older wireless and laser was bad. The first one that I thought could game even remotely decent on FPS was the Logitech Revolution (though I could still occasional detect lag and could still be twitchy on occasion). And while I admit, even on newer systems that lasers can be fickle regarding some mousepads (use fine cloth or hard, preferably the latter), most of the arguments against newer lasers and wireless are outdated and only matter on a benchmark.


Say what you want, but in games that show accuracy, I'm usually at the top.
Could I be better on a wired optical, it's possible, but if it's only going to net me one extra kill per 1000, I'll take wireless every time.

[vun]

G700 has a laser sensor, so there will always be a small amount of hardware acceleration.
Although with the G700 it doesn't matter at all, since if you needed so much control over your mouse that the laser accel is a problem then you wouldn't go wireless.

A lot of that whole argument is personal preference and arguments about older designs, most of which were terrible.

Some people actually prefer at least some acceleration and I would bet 99.9999% of people would never even notice laser acceleration in a game. A lot comes down to adjusting. As for the wireless lag, again, older argument and at this point wireless is good enough to where you could make just as compelling an argument about how much dragging the cord around effects your game (which was my problem and why I went wireless).

Yes, gaming on an older wireless and laser was bad. The first one that I thought could game even remotely decent on FPS was the Logitech Revolution (though I could still occasional detect lag and could still be twitchy on occasion). And while I admit, even on newer systems that lasers can be fickle regarding some mousepads (use fine cloth or hard, preferably the latter), most of the arguments against newer lasers and wireless are outdated and only matter on a benchmark.


Say what you want, but in games that show accuracy, I'm usually at the top.
Could I be better on a wired optical, it's possible, but if it's only going to net me one extra kill per 1000, I'll take wireless every time.

I'm not going to tell you what's best for you, you already know that, I'm just making sure all the facts are straight.
You said that it's possible to disable acceleration on the G700, I'm merely saying that it will have some due to the sensor, that's all.

Personally I'm with you on the rest of what you said, although I do prefer wired over wireless as I like not having to worry about batteries, both the weight and charge.
Other than that I don't believe that the insignificant amounts of laser sensor accel or the possible wireless lag in something like the G700 will matter at all for the vast majority of gamers.

[Leslieann]

I'm not going to tell you what's best for you, you already know that, I'm just making sure all the facts are straight.
You said that it's possible to disable acceleration on the G700, I'm merely saying that it will have some due to the sensor, that's all.

Personally I'm with you on the rest of what you said, although I do prefer wired over wireless as I like not having to worry about batteries, both the weight and charge.
Other than that I don't believe that the insignificant amounts of laser sensor accel or the possible wireless lag in something like the G700 will matter at all for the vast majority of gamers.

All good points as well.
The weight is a bit of a bummer, though the G700 isn't as bad as some, it is hefty (some like that too though).  At a lan party, or gaming competition, I could see wireless degrading with too many conflicting signals, but for home users, it shouldn't matter, especially if you are careful.

The battery life on the G700 is atrocious, especially if you crank up the sensor to max. The stock battery at max only lasted me around 6 or so hours of mixed browsing and gaming. On the other hand, it uses a standard 1900mah NIHM, so I swapped in a 2700mah and took the poll rate down a notch and was able to easily get a full day on it with pretty heavy use. After two years it's now conking out as I log off for bed (new battery time). I dislike the extra buttons and the texture and looks are cheap, however it's actually extremely well made and works great.


Something to note regarding wireless (and part of why it gets a bad rap), a lot of people just plug the sensor into the pc itself, which is fine for browsing, but I learned a long time ago that you induce A LOT of errors this way, especially as the battery power tapers off. It seems obvious when you think about it, but I see it on a daily basis. You want that receiver as close to the mouse as possible for less lag and interference, and on it's own port in the back, not the front of the computer. Front ports go through some cheap (often improperly shielded) wire, and a second connector. I keep my sensor only about 6 inches from my mouse. For all the crap Razor gets for the Black Widow, that side mounted USB port on the keyboard that many think is pointless, is actually a fantastic feature for wireless mice users (provided your receiver is small).

[velvetdon25]

G9x or Zowei FK for FPS.

[TheSoulhunter]

There are technical aspects (tracking, build quality, drivers) and there is the ergonomic factor...
Here the mouse is only half of the equation, the other half is YOU (how you prefer to hold and move the mouse).
I tried like a dozen different ones before I ended up with what I use now (G9 for UI/OS control, DeathAdder for gaming).

[Folio]

I like the crispness of the buttons on my g9x, however ergonomics wise I like the CM Xornet. It's one of those "everybodys different" things.

Yo Turbo, I heard from a video review that the G9X's right mouse click is very light and can accidentally get actuated when you're resting your finger on it. Is that normal? I'm having that problem right now with a recently purchased Death Adder 2013 and it's seriously pissing me the F off.

[TheSoulhunter]

Can be fixed by putting stuff under the button (thin sheet of foam or a V shaped springy metal leaf thingy).

[Yzeets]

Intellimouse 3.0 and MX518 Have been the best and most popular mice since competitive PC FPS started, they don't make the 518 anymore but you can buy it's replacement, no need for a fancy useless "gaming mice", I've had  the same intellimouse 3.0 since 2005 when I played competitive cs 1.6 and it still works perfect, it may look like **** but it works

[Saturn]

I've had a MX 510, 518, G5, G9, G9x, and the G400 which is what I currently use.  G400 is the remake of the old 518 and I think you can't really do better.  Natural, comfortable shape, extremely accurate sensor with perfect 1:1 movement, and cheaper than fancier mice.  No onboard profiles, but you don't really need those anyway.

It also happens to be one of the few logitech mice that doesn't have the infamous high-pitched capacitor squeal that most of their mice exhibit.  It's not very loud, so you're only going to hear it if you have very good ears, but if you can hear it, it may drive you nuts.  See here for more details on that: http://jdc.koitsu.org/logitech/

Also, no braided cable.  Just a thin, light cable that doesn't pull like the heavier braided cables do.  The braiding is supposed to make the cable more durable, but it causes more problems than it solves when ultimately the cable bends or kinks, or the braiding gets pushed toward one direction and develops an odd bulge.

[fuzzybaffy]

For specifically FPS games (and only FPS games), I would go with the Deathadder. Its shape is really comfortable, and makes it really great for accuracy even, for FPS play.

I've tried the G9x, G700s (I'm using it now, actually), Razer Taipan, Steel Series Sensei, G400, Razer Abyssus, and Razer Mamba.

For RTS games, however, the Deathadder isn't the greatest, because it's slightly too fat, which makes it a bit awkward for those tiny, precise movements (whereas FPS games are more about swiping movements). Currently looking for a mouse that's good for both FPS and RTS games.

[domoaligato]

this discussion is just like "what is the best gaming keyboard?"
it is subjective to the individual and the type of games they play.
lots of people bash on the steel series sensei. that is what I use and prefer. it is all preference.

[vun]

this discussion is just like "what is the best gaming keyboard?"
it is subjective to the individual and the type of games they play.
lots of people bash on the steel series sensei. that is what I use and prefer. it is all preference.

But there are far more differences in mice than in keyboards. Switching mouse can have a far bigger impact on your performance than a keyboard ever will with the exception of a few keyboard-driven games, which are often better with a fightstick or other controller anyways.
And this is mostly just a thread where people get to praise their favourite rather than a thread that seeks to find the end-all-be-all gaming mouse, since there is no such thing.

[ferociousfingerings]

I never fully realized just how much i loved my mx518 (which i used exclusively for several years), until i got my g700.

I do like the way the g700 feels in my hand, i do like the /option/ of extra buttons, i do like the scroll wheel... but the weight and its distribution are quite different, and the sensor is at the tip, rather than the middle, so it's an entirely different experience. I was all-tip, all the time, with the mx518, and the g700 has forced me to develop a sort of tip/claw hybrid. I just can't quite get completely comfortable with it, but i do think it's "a very good mouse." It's too bad my old mx518 is nastified and worn out. I suppose i could get a g500, or try a naga (because a thumb numberpad seems ideal, to me, and i dislike the design of the g600), but... meh. Whatever. I'm not a pro-gamer, so it doesn't matter that much. I also get irritated with my wrist-anchor spot getting grungy, and dust that settles on the giant goliathus mat, and the mouse feet start feeling sticky. The rubberized grip on the g700 gets icky for no apparent reason. I even washed it not long ago, and maintained my strict habit of always washing my hands before touching my peripherals, and it became sticky again almost immediately.

If not for the non-adjustable rotation speed in some games, i'd probably just use a 360 controller for everything (except typing, of course). I know xpadder can do mouse-mimic, and you can certainly control the speed there, and i'm sure you could map a mod-key to enable/disable max/min mouse-mimic-speed. In theory, you could simulate maximum "controlled" mouse movement speed. Not sure about snapping. Might just have to learn some creative combo-strafing or something, or take it as a handicap worth the comfort of a controller, versus required m/k posture.

The "best mouse" is probably almost always "whatever you feel most comfortable and accurate, while using."

[domoaligato]

I never fully realized just how much i loved my mx518 (which i used exclusively for several years), until i got my g700.

I do like the way the g700 feels in my hand, i do like the /option/ of extra buttons, i do like the scroll wheel... but the weight and its distribution are quite different, and the sensor is at the tip, rather than the middle, so it's an entirely different experience. I was all-tip, all the time, with the mx518, and the g700 has forced me to develop a sort of tip/claw hybrid. I just can't quite get completely comfortable with it, but i do think it's "a very good mouse." It's too bad my old mx518 is nastified and worn out. I suppose i could get a g500, or try a naga (because a thumb numberpad seems ideal, to me, and i dislike the design of the g600), but... meh. Whatever. I'm not a pro-gamer, so it doesn't matter that much. I also get irritated with my wrist-anchor spot getting grungy, and dust that settles on the giant goliathus mat, and the mouse feet start feeling sticky. The rubberized grip on the g700 gets icky for no apparent reason. I even washed it not long ago, and maintained my strict habit of always washing my hands before touching my peripherals, and it became sticky again almost immediately.

If not for the non-adjustable rotation speed in some games, i'd probably just use a 360 controller for everything (except typing, of course). I know xpadder can do mouse-mimic, and you can certainly control the speed there, and i'm sure you could map a mod-key to enable/disable max/min mouse-mimic-speed. In theory, you could simulate maximum "controlled" mouse movement speed. Not sure about snapping. Might just have to learn some creative combo-strafing or something, or take it as a handicap worth the comfort of a controller, versus required m/k posture.

The "best mouse" is probably almost always "whatever you feel most comfortable and accurate, while using."

or you could buy a new mx518
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Performance-Optical-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B0007Z1M50

edit: cheaper on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/logitech-mx518

[vun]

I never fully realized just how much i loved my mx518 (which i used exclusively for several years), until i got my g700.

I do like the way the g700 feels in my hand, i do like the /option/ of extra buttons, i do like the scroll wheel... but the weight and its distribution are quite different, and the sensor is at the tip, rather than the middle, so it's an entirely different experience. I was all-tip, all the time, with the mx518, and the g700 has forced me to develop a sort of tip/claw hybrid. I just can't quite get completely comfortable with it, but i do think it's "a very good mouse." It's too bad my old mx518 is nastified and worn out. I suppose i could get a g500, or try a naga (because a thumb numberpad seems ideal, to me, and i dislike the design of the g600), but... meh. Whatever. I'm not a pro-gamer, so it doesn't matter that much. I also get irritated with my wrist-anchor spot getting grungy, and dust that settles on the giant goliathus mat, and the mouse feet start feeling sticky. The rubberized grip on the g700 gets icky for no apparent reason. I even washed it not long ago, and maintained my strict habit of always washing my hands before touching my peripherals, and it became sticky again almost immediately.

If not for the non-adjustable rotation speed in some games, i'd probably just use a 360 controller for everything (except typing, of course). I know xpadder can do mouse-mimic, and you can certainly control the speed there, and i'm sure you could map a mod-key to enable/disable max/min mouse-mimic-speed. In theory, you could simulate maximum "controlled" mouse movement speed. Not sure about snapping. Might just have to learn some creative combo-strafing or something, or take it as a handicap worth the comfort of a controller, versus required m/k posture.

The "best mouse" is probably almost always "whatever you feel most comfortable and accurate, while using."

The G700 has horrible weight distribution, pretty much anything will feel better. If you want the Naga primarily for the numpad then I highly recommend giving the G600 a go, since the G600 numpad(and configuration software) is miles better. I have to say that I prefer the shape of the Naga for general use, but the numpad and software is pretty much useless compared to the G600.

[ferociousfingerings]

The one thing i didn't like about the mx518 is that it felt "too long," even though the g700 manages to feel uncomfortable in a similar way, despite it's "shorter" design. If only there were some sort of tiny tip-grip mouse, with a thumb numberpad and a nice scroll wheel like the g700.

I haven't held a g600, but it seems like it would be too wide, and it "looks heavy," but i haven't looked at the specs to compare weight.

I've actually been considering converting to trackball, lately. Or maybe just mapping all relevant mouse functions to a 360 pad...

[vun]

The one thing i didn't like about the mx518 is that it felt "too long," even though the g700 manages to feel uncomfortable in a similar way, despite it's "shorter" design. If only there were some sort of tiny tip-grip mouse, with a thumb numberpad and a nice scroll wheel like the g700.

I haven't held a g600, but it seems like it would be too wide, and it "looks heavy," but i haven't looked at the specs to compare weight.

I've actually been considering converting to trackball, lately. Or maybe just mapping all relevant mouse functions to a 360 pad...

The G600 does have a chunky appearance so it looks larger than it is, but just from picking up the G600 and the Naga from my drawer I'd say the Naga is heavier. The only issue with the G600 is that it might be a bit trickier to pick up if you use low sens, but at higher sensitivities it's amazing.

[fuzzybaffy]

The one thing i didn't like about the mx518 is that it felt "too long," even though the g700 manages to feel uncomfortable in a similar way, despite it's "shorter" design. If only there were some sort of tiny tip-grip mouse, with a thumb numberpad and a nice scroll wheel like the g700.

I haven't held a g600, but it seems like it would be too wide, and it "looks heavy," but i haven't looked at the specs to compare weight.

I've actually been considering converting to trackball, lately. Or maybe just mapping all relevant mouse functions to a 360 pad...

If you're looking for a "tiny tip-grip mouse, with a thumb numberpad and a nice scroll wheel like the g700", then the Naga should be perfect for you. Though I've never compared it to a G600, and so vun's comments about the Naga having horrible software may be true, in terms of grip, the Naga allows a pretty good claw/tip-grip. I was kind of surprised by it (in a good way), actually. It doesn't have the scroll wheel of a G700 either, but, we can't have everything. =P

[vun]

The one thing i didn't like about the mx518 is that it felt "too long," even though the g700 manages to feel uncomfortable in a similar way, despite it's "shorter" design. If only there were some sort of tiny tip-grip mouse, with a thumb numberpad and a nice scroll wheel like the g700.

I haven't held a g600, but it seems like it would be too wide, and it "looks heavy," but i haven't looked at the specs to compare weight.

I've actually been considering converting to trackball, lately. Or maybe just mapping all relevant mouse functions to a 360 pad...

If you're looking for a "tiny tip-grip mouse, with a thumb numberpad and a nice scroll wheel like the g700", then the Naga should be perfect for you. Though I've never compared it to a G600, and so vun's comments about the Naga having horrible software may be true, in terms of grip, the Naga allows a pretty good claw/tip-grip. I was kind of surprised by it (in a good way), actually. It doesn't have the scroll wheel of a G700 either, but, we can't have everything. =P

If you want claw grip the the Naga is better, as the Naga 2012 has interchangable side grips, one of them being for claw grip.

Also, the Naga software isn't really terrible, it just does nothing to make assigning a two-layered numpad easier, whereas the G600 is nice and easy in every aspect, from the physical shape of the numpad to the lists of built-in commands ready to drag and drop onto buttons in the software.

I was also surprised by the Naga, actually, I really like the shape of it and the numpad, while fairly useless for me, isn't really in the way so if you're looking at the Naga just for the shape then it's amazing. The G600 numpad I've found is a bit in the way in FPS, since it's easier to accidentally press it while moving the mouse around, but in return the numpad is miles better.

[Sniping]

G9x or Zowei FK for FPS.

How's the FK in comparison to the G9x? I use a G9x with no grip right now, and I was wondering how much different the Zowie was in comparison. I've been hearing some pretty good things about it along with some other fairly new mice out there.

[ferociousfingerings]

Just looking at the shape makes me think my hand will like the naga. I've thought about it for a long time, but... for whatever reason, never tried one. I am definitely a tip-gripper, and "pick-up" quite a lot, and that pick-up usually occurs from the anchored-wrist position. I realize this is probably not optimal, just what i'm used to. I like to relax and move as little as possible during extended gaming sessions. Plus, until i get my gh60, i have limited mouse-area. I say "limited," but really i have about a foot, it's just that the g710+ is a full size board, and i don't like leaning TOO far to the left to type, nor do i like having my mouse smacking my PC case.

This whole line of thought, what with the "i dislike moving my arm" and "i pick up too often" and "i'm used to high sensitivity" lead me to wonder if perhaps i should convert to trackball. It satisfies most of those conditions. I'd just have to change how i click. OTOH, converting to trackball might make me feel old. lol. OTOOH, a naga would save me from ever being interested in a TK pad for my small board (which i might have sometime this fall/winter?).

I play games from various genres...

naga... trackball... 360 pad for everything... not sure. Though "...Naga just for the shape then it's amazing." Is a pretty strong argument.

[fuzzybaffy]

Well, no peripheral is perfect, so... you have to weigh the good with the bad, and decide what you want.

I also wanted to throw in my two cents on the G700; I, too, think the G700 shape isn't all that great. It's an ok shape... for when you do nothing with the mouse. To me, it looks like the engineers/designers shaped the mouse according to the grip of your hand while the mouse is standing still. But the mouse doesn't stand still when gaming. When you start gaming and the mouse starts moving, your hand needs to naturally adjust its grip on the mouse. With the G700, the shape/grip is way, way too specific, so adjustments are hard to do, and gets uncomfortable while it gets moved around.

I'll agree it's not that bad when it comes to RTS's, but for FPS's, the shape is just frustrating.

[remdell]

There are so many mice to choose from.  I'd say go for a cheap, but efficient mouse to start off with and see what features you wish you had to make your FPS gaming more worthwhile.  I got a Logitech G7 as my first gaming mouse.  It was great except for a few factors: low battery life, few extra buttons, and a bumpy scroll wheel.  I upgraded to a G600, but I found that it too had its flaws.  The G600 wasn't really meant for average to below-average sized hands.  I often found myself clicking the G-shift button by accident when trying to access the G600's upper numpad buttons. 

Yet, the G600, to me, was perfect for FPS games.  I didn't need to access the upper numpad buttons.  I used the G-shift button exclusively for shifting the DPI sensitivity.  Logitech's modern mice software allows it so that you can use a button to shift from a higher sensitivity, with a press, to default sensitivity by letting go.  This is perfect for doing long range shots. 

In the end, decent software and mouse design is all you really need.  However, you might have to try or own at least one gaming mouse to get to your preference of design and software usage.

[microsoft windows]

The best mouse for FPS games is the Microsoft Mouse.

[Skylit]

There is no way to disable the acceleration in laser sensors as it is a limitation of the current technology used in those sensors, and from the graphs I've seen the accel is fairly inconsistent so even if there was a software setting to counteract it I doubt it would be reliable.
But there is no such setting in the SteelSeries Engine software.

People give me **** for mentioning this, but screw it. Don't care.

Laser and Optical are one in the same.  Optical LED and Optical Laser (VCSEL)   The most common designs share basic frame capture CMOS tech. Philips Twin Eye is quite unique as it makes use of 2 beams to detect motion via doppler for sensing.

The whole laser mice = acceleration is derived from the Avago 9500/9800 sensor architecture.  Any alternative solution that has been released functions as linearly as what many consider the best optical LED mice.  Cypress ONS I.. Agilent/Avago 60XX.. to name a couple.

Philips Twin Eye, the competitor to Avago 9500/9800 is inherently "acceleration free" **.

** Technically, no mouse is really free from acceleration when tested via machine.

[vun]

There is no way to disable the acceleration in laser sensors as it is a limitation of the current technology used in those sensors, and from the graphs I've seen the accel is fairly inconsistent so even if there was a software setting to counteract it I doubt it would be reliable.
But there is no such setting in the SteelSeries Engine software.

People give me **** for mentioning this, but screw it. Don't care.

Laser and Optical are one in the same.  Optical LED and Optical Laser (VCSEL)   The most common designs share basic frame capture CMOS tech. Philips Twin Eye is quite unique as it makes use of 2 beams to detect motion via doppler for sensing.

The whole laser mice = acceleration is derived from the Avago 9500/9800 sensor architecture.  Any alternative solution that has been released functions as linearly as what many consider the best optical LED mice.  Cypress ONS I.. Agilent/Avago 60XX.. to name a couple.

Philips Twin Eye, the competitor to Avago 9500/9800 is inherently "acceleration free" **.

** Technically, no mouse is really free from acceleration when tested via machine.

Thing is that nearly all laser mice use some variation of the 9500, 9800 or PTE, which might be accel free but flawed in other ways. Afaik all the mice using alternative laser sensors are old models that are no longer available.

But thanks for clearing it up, I wasn't really aware of the alternative laser sensors as I haven't delved that deep into it. I mostly concern myself with what something is, the basics of how it works and what it will mean to the end-user in practice rather than the finer details of how something works, so my knowledge is somewhat limited.

[domoaligato]

There is no way to disable the acceleration in laser sensors as it is a limitation of the current technology used in those sensors, and from the graphs I've seen the accel is fairly inconsistent so even if there was a software setting to counteract it I doubt it would be reliable.
But there is no such setting in the SteelSeries Engine software.

People give me **** for mentioning this, but screw it. Don't care.

Laser and Optical are one in the same.  Optical LED and Optical Laser (VCSEL)   The most common designs share basic frame capture CMOS tech. Philips Twin Eye is quite unique as it makes use of 2 beams to detect motion via doppler for sensing.

The whole laser mice = acceleration is derived from the Avago 9500/9800 sensor architecture.  Any alternative solution that has been released functions as linearly as what many consider the best optical LED mice.  Cypress ONS I.. Agilent/Avago 60XX.. to name a couple.

Philips Twin Eye, the competitor to Avago 9500/9800 is inherently "acceleration free" **.

** Technically, no mouse is really free from acceleration when tested via machine.

So what do you own and prefer?

[Skylit]

There is no way to disable the acceleration in laser sensors as it is a limitation of the current technology used in those sensors, and from the graphs I've seen the accel is fairly inconsistent so even if there was a software setting to counteract it I doubt it would be reliable.
But there is no such setting in the SteelSeries Engine software.

People give me **** for mentioning this, but screw it. Don't care.

Laser and Optical are one in the same.  Optical LED and Optical Laser (VCSEL)   The most common designs share basic frame capture CMOS tech. Philips Twin Eye is quite unique as it makes use of 2 beams to detect motion via doppler for sensing.

The whole laser mice = acceleration is derived from the Avago 9500/9800 sensor architecture.  Any alternative solution that has been released functions as linearly as what many consider the best optical LED mice.  Cypress ONS I.. Agilent/Avago 60XX.. to name a couple.

Philips Twin Eye, the competitor to Avago 9500/9800 is inherently "acceleration free" **.

** Technically, no mouse is really free from acceleration when tested via machine.

Thing is that nearly all laser mice use some variation of the 9500, 9800 or PTE, which might be accel free but flawed in other ways. Afaik all the mice using alternative laser sensors are old models that are no longer available.

But thanks for clearing it up, I wasn't really aware of the alternative laser sensors as I haven't delved that deep into it. I mostly concern myself with what something is, the basics of how it works and what it will mean to the end-user in practice rather than the finer details of how something works, so my knowledge is somewhat limited.

Yes that's understood, but my goal is to illustrate architectural sensor limitation(s) rather than associating "accel" with a type of illumination source on its own.  It's just silly imho^^ 

Many mistake me of defending specific mice or rather sensor model, when I'm merely trying to explain the source.   I suppose I'm expected to give out a "x is better than x" explanation, but I feel more proper to accept opinions as I've become fairly neutral overtime.

Nowadays there are things being added to the mouse sensor for the sake of increasing CPI count.  Would consider that a bigger threat ^^

So what do you own and prefer?

I've owned many many mice.  I'm partial to choose preferred shape over perfection on all fronts.  There are designs I rather adore, but feel the hardware quality per model isn't the greatest (G100 for example) Still doesn't mean its a bad mouse if fully functional.  Kinda same way people perceive some mice as bad (A lot rzr mice), while they're halfway decent vs market from a hardware perspective. Happens with keyboards quite often.

Currently using a self modded LH DA. 

Also Like in no specific order:

Kone Pure shape (RH palm, fits perfect resting, I'll still claw it gaming)
IE 3.0 shape (RH)
Spawn Shape (RH)
IO 1.1 Shape
G1/G3/Mx300/G100 shape
Abyssus Shape
Xai Shape
etc..

But this is all subjective. I recommend finding a nice shape and going from there. 

Sensor wise, I'm not really content with anything really.  Not in a bad way either as I'm really fine with each of those.  It's more of me being stubborn with a few things related to sensor manufacturer.

[HendyZone]

personally vote for Razer DeathAdder 2013 

[domoaligato]

personally vote for Razer DeathAdder 2013 

i have owned this for 4 months and it is already double clicking. i will never buy another razer mouse ever.

[yasuo]

i have owned this for 4 months and it is already double clicking. i will never buy another razer mouse ever.

Changing switch with omron switch

[domoaligato]

i have owned this for 4 months and it is already double clicking. i will never buy another razer mouse ever.

chaging switch with omron

huh? are you saying I should change the switches or razer already changed the switches? I have a support ticket I opened yesterday. if they decide to not help me (no rma) then I will dissect the mouse for mouse science and take pics.

edit: and yes I know I can open it up and use contact cleaner to fix it.
that is not the point. razer needs to fix this defect that has plagued all there mice for years.

[vun]

i have owned this for 4 months and it is already double clicking. i will never buy another razer mouse ever.

chaging switch with omron

huh? are you saying I should change the switches or razer already changed the switches? I have a support ticket I opened yesterday. if they decide to not help me (no rma) then I will dissect the mouse for mouse science and take pics.

edit: and yes I know I can open it up and use contact cleaner to fix it.
that is not the point. razer needs to fix this defect that has plagued all there mice for years.

I don't think it's simply a problem with their mice, Razer's problem is more likely overall lack of quality control on all their products. Though I'm guessing they're selling so much that they don't bother doing much about it, which is a bit odd since there are probably loads of potential customers who decide not to buy due to fear of getting a dud.

[lanlav123]

Well i am using fingertip grip and i used to have cyborg rat 7 mouse, i really liked the whole mouse design but one of the most noticable cons was the less durable plastic and one of the pros is that if you take time you can customize it like 100%, you find profiles made by pro gamers for diffrent games and stuff, now i am using corsair vengeance m65, its also a cool mouse atm. i havent noticed any cons, the thing i really like about it is the snipe key thats really big compared to other i seen and its easy to press, i also like that you can customize the weight. I have kinda big hands about 8 inches, so it suits me well for fingertip grip and i would recommend it if you are looking for something like that

[noisyturtle]

For FPS gaming you generally want something smaller with fingertip/claw grip, easily liftable, and substantial dpi that perhaps has individual x and y axis settings. I don't play many FPS games and like big comfortable palm grip mice with stable sensors, but an acquaintance of mine is a top ranked Battlefield 2/3 and TF2 player and this is what he always looks for in a mouse. He usually uses a Logitech G9x or CM Storm Spawn, which both seem pretty similar to me but they win him tournaments so I guess they both have merits.

[lanlav123]

I personally use the corsair and cyborg mouse as fingertip, becouse i have so big hands that i cant really hold small mice like cm storm spawn or g9. There is no real fingertip specific mouse for people with big hands so i just read some forum posts and stuff and i decided what i liked

[vun]

For FPS gaming you generally want something smaller with fingertip/claw grip, easily liftable, and substantial dpi that perhaps has individual x and y axis settings.

Purely preference, although what you said is often said about RTS gamers as that style makes precision micro easier. In FPS it's pretty much all preference, but one of the common generalisations I've seen is that FPS players will often prefer palm mice to make larger swipes easier, but again this is all preference as one style doesn't give you an advantage over another.

[fuzzybaffy]

Case in point:

That's supposedly a pro player who uses a Deathadder. I have no idea who he is, though, but he says his other pro CS player friend who wins a lot of tournaments uses the Deathadder. He doesn't specifically talk about the grip, but if he likes it enough to use it, I assume the fatter grip of the Deathadder isn't much of an issue for him.

[zoolzoo]

G400. Tried DA13, very nice but didnt fit my hand correctly. Im used to the old Logitech feel.

[fuzzybaffy]

Yea... I don't mean to say we should count out all other (smaller) mice, but I'm saying, let's not count out other mice on the account of fatter grips (because it apparently works for other people with FPS games) as well.

[domoaligato]

Does anyone else here have a ESEA account?

please go browse the profiles of some of the top pros.
pro players use whatever mouse feels good and works for them.
there are quite a few mice listed that might surprise you.

[Quardah]

Ikari Laser is incredible. Never look back.

[PadawanGeek]

Multiple mice user, I have three rigs and I use whatever mice that suits my grip style. It doesn't necessarily have to be laser or optical, as long as its reasonably spec'ed and fits your hand comfortably, that makes it the "best"t gaming mouse for you. I have two smaller mice, a Xornet and a Logitech G9 (first gen), and I love them both, have not let me down even in fast paced FPS games like Quake 3 Arena and UT3. My Roccat Kone XTD is a tad larger than them, but due to ergonomics, it fits very nicely in my hand and I have no problem fragging with it. As long as you're comfortable with it, and as long as it's capable of at least 1600dpi, it's the "best" mouse for you.

[spaceburge]

Look at your grip on the mouse. This should be the biggest deciding factor into which one you go for.

Claw, fingertip or palm. If it's the latter find a mouse with a high back to support your wrist and be relatively wide. If the former then look at some of the Zowie's like the FK or the AM and the Steelseries range.

Optical is better for FPS games and I prefer the accurate tracking too.

Zowie FK user. No flashy lights, no over complicated buttons, no software. Perfect.

[fuzzybaffy]

Look at your grip on the mouse. This should be the biggest deciding factor into which one you go for.

Claw, fingertip or palm. If it's the latter find a mouse with a high back to support your wrist and be relatively wide. If the former then look at some of the Zowie's like the FK or the AM and the Steelseries range.

Optical is better for FPS games and I prefer the accurate tracking too.

Zowie FK user. No flashy lights, no over complicated buttons, no software. Perfect.

How's the grip on the FK? No fatigue?

[KaLam1ty]

I have always liked the 2nd Gen Deathadder, but like all of other Razer's gear, the build quality is pretty ****.
The hardware on it is quite nice though but I've had to mod the guts on the inside to reinforce some of the
pieces within (i.e. the button plungers which seems to get grinded up after use).

[Quardah]

The best mouse for FPS games is the Microsoft Mouse.

Show Image

Interest Check for Group Buy. This product looks like best in line and i'm lucky enough to still have a PS2 interface on my laptop.

[Hyde]

I can't do wired.
The cords simply don't last and I always feel as though I'm fighting them. And yes, you can disable acceleration.

There's 2 ways to count that:

1.  I usually just pull the cord up and leave a huge slack on my desk.  You only get the "pull" when it's hanging out desk edge.  If you have a bunch on your desk the drag is minimal.

2.  Get a mouse bungee, they look stupid but they do work lol.

I can't do wireless because I like lighter mouse and also I don't want to deal with recharging battery.

[ynrozturk]

There are so many good mice out there, it all depends on what you need and your style.

For the past 12 years or so I used the Logitech MX518, which in my eyes is a legend of a mouse. It finally died a few months ago and since then I've bought two new mice so I could experiment for a bit. The Cyborg RAT 7 is fantastic. Despite the odd shape, I couldn't believe how comfortable it actually was. You get used to it real fast, especially since it has a support wing for your pinky finger.

The other one I have is a Razer Lachesis Refresh, which is just buttery smooth. They both track well, but that also has a lot to do with the surface you have your mouse on. I still use my Icemat from way back and I don't see any reason to upgrade from it.

Overall, for me, I'd say that the RAT 7 is just more comfortable overall.

[Lawngahnome]

Razor DeathAdder. Simple, effective, and perpetually on sale somewhere. It also have a bunch of special ed runs, so you can get one with a cool design from some game or another.

[TheSoulhunter]

Re: Double-clicking...
Whenever a mouse starts double-clicking I hit the button very hard a couple times and it work normally again (for days, weeks or months).

[Niomosy]

The Deathadder was meh.  No right/left on the middle mouse button which wouldn't have been so bad had the middle button itself required less force to push (Unix admin so I do make fair use of it for work).  Thumb buttons seemed in an odd location compared to my G5.  No DPI adjustment buttons.

I suppose I should have stuck with my plan to just order the Imperator online but the wife was gung-ho for avoiding having it shipped.

Back to the G5 for now.  It's getting replaced mostly due to the pain my forearm from clicking.  The right button being a bit stuck probably isn't helping things.

[pr1me]

Kone pure optical and Zowie FK are great mice 

[ItsBc]

the best mice is which ever one you are most comfortable with; as long as there are no sensor issues.
go to store and try them

[chill1217]

the zowie fk really intrigues me.  how long do zowie FK usually last, and how is their warranty?  i've been using the logitech mx 500/518/g400 series forever, but they always die in ~2 years.  logitech's customer service is great though and they always send a replacement.

[ssdt]

First of all: I use the palm-grip.
After years of professional gaming with my Logitech MX518, this mouse finally gave up (it served me for 6 years).
Since then, due to not playing competitive anymore, I used a SteelSeries Kinzu until a month ago, which is a pretty cool mouse for casual gaming, but I felt the need for a bigger one again. After A LOT of research I decided to buy a ROCCAT KONE XTD that is honestly the best mouse I have ever had in my hands. The laser (the firmware is updated so there is no nasty delay!) is the most accurate one I have tried. For a lower budget you can get the ROCCAT KONE pure (without leds) but with the stabilized mousewheel. ROCCAT had problems with it before, but the new mice are just perfect  

[Niomosy]

First of all: I use the palm-grip.
After years of professional gaming with my Logitech MX518, this mouse finally gave up (it served me for 6 years).
Since then, due to not playing competitive anymore, I used a SteelSeries Kinzu until a month ago, which is a pretty cool mouse for casual gaming, but I felt the need for a bigger one again. After A LOT of research I decided to buy a ROCCAT KONE XTD that is honestly the best mouse I have ever had in my hands. The laser (the firmware is updated so there is no nasty delay!) is the most accurate one I have tried. For a lower budget you can get the ROCCAT KONE pure (without leds) but with the stabilized mousewheel. ROCCAT had problems with it before, but the new mice are just perfect  

I swear the XTD keeps coming up in my search for a replacement for my G5.  I went to Fry's to try to check one out and... they had lots of other models but no XTD.  The Kone + shape seemed like it would work out but as they weren't open I wasn't able to give one a fair test.  I may have to find a Fry's that has the XTD in stock and try one out. 

Otherwise I may just bit the bullet and try a G500s or possibly G400s.

[ssdt]

First of all: I use the palm-grip.
After years of professional gaming with my Logitech MX518, this mouse finally gave up (it served me for 6 years).
Since then, due to not playing competitive anymore, I used a SteelSeries Kinzu until a month ago, which is a pretty cool mouse for casual gaming, but I felt the need for a bigger one again. After A LOT of research I decided to buy a ROCCAT KONE XTD that is honestly the best mouse I have ever had in my hands. The laser (the firmware is updated so there is no nasty delay!) is the most accurate one I have tried. For a lower budget you can get the ROCCAT KONE pure (without leds) but with the stabilized mousewheel. ROCCAT had problems with it before, but the new mice are just perfect  

I swear the XTD keeps coming up in my search for a replacement for my G5.  I went to Fry's to try to check one out and... they had lots of other models but no XTD.  The Kone + shape seemed like it would work out but as they weren't open I wasn't able to give one a fair test.  I may have to find a Fry's that has the XTD in stock and try one out. 

Otherwise I may just bit the bullet and try a G500s or possibly G400s.

I was also in for a g400s, then read 'some' reviews (like 60 or so lol). Then I tried one and it was nothing like the mx518 (plus they didn't fix their cable issues), thats why I thought I should get a g500s. Apperently the laser of this mouse makes high-pitched squeeks from time to time that tend to get very loud after a year, having people returning the mouse because of that. So I guess LG is pretty much dead to me because of things like this. With the Roccat mice the only problem was the mousewheel, which got fixed with the new kone ed. (Just make sure to get one with the new "titan wheel") If you read rumors about a 'failing laser' or 'overreacting laser' that has also been fixed with the new firmware.
Best mouse I ever had. I will never go with another I guess!

Best mouse I have ever used.

[vun]

First of all: I use the palm-grip.
After years of professional gaming with my Logitech MX518, this mouse finally gave up (it served me for 6 years).
Since then, due to not playing competitive anymore, I used a SteelSeries Kinzu until a month ago, which is a pretty cool mouse for casual gaming, but I felt the need for a bigger one again. After A LOT of research I decided to buy a ROCCAT KONE XTD that is honestly the best mouse I have ever had in my hands. The laser (the firmware is updated so there is no nasty delay!) is the most accurate one I have tried. For a lower budget you can get the ROCCAT KONE pure (without leds) but with the stabilized mousewheel. ROCCAT had problems with it before, but the new mice are just perfect  

I swear the XTD keeps coming up in my search for a replacement for my G5.  I went to Fry's to try to check one out and... they had lots of other models but no XTD.  The Kone + shape seemed like it would work out but as they weren't open I wasn't able to give one a fair test.  I may have to find a Fry's that has the XTD in stock and try one out. 

Otherwise I may just bit the bullet and try a G500s or possibly G400s.

I was also in for a g400s, then read 'some' reviews (like 60 or so lol). Then I tried one and it was nothing like the mx518 (plus they didn't fix their cable issues), thats why I thought I should get a g500s. Apperently the laser of this mouse makes high-pitched squeeks from time to time that tend to get very loud after a year, having people returning the mouse because of that. So I guess LG is pretty much dead to me because of things like this. With the Roccat mice the only problem was the mousewheel, which got fixed with the new kone ed. (Just make sure to get one with the new "titan wheel") If you read rumors about a 'failing laser' or 'overreacting laser' that has also been fixed with the new firmware.
Best mouse I ever had. I will never go with another I guess!

Best mouse I have ever used.

Just curious; how is the G400 nothing like the MX518? It's the exact same shape, the earlier models even had sensors with prediction like on the MX518.

[Elrick]

I was also in for a g400s, then read 'some' reviews (like 60 or so lol). Then I tried one and it was nothing like the mx518 (plus they didn't fix their cable issues), thats why I thought I should get a g500s. Apperently the laser of this mouse makes high-pitched squeeks from time to time that tend to get very loud after a year, having people returning the mouse because of that.

Damn, I nearly fell over laughin', a mouse that actually squeaks (I want one).  A true 'living' rodent  .

[w4rtortle]

Razer Deathadder, SS Sensei, or one of Zowie variants.

Deathadder has the best tracking ability imo. Sensei and Zowie feel great to hold.

This is a perfect answer, I agree 100%

[Niomosy]

First of all: I use the palm-grip.
After years of professional gaming with my Logitech MX518, this mouse finally gave up (it served me for 6 years).
Since then, due to not playing competitive anymore, I used a SteelSeries Kinzu until a month ago, which is a pretty cool mouse for casual gaming, but I felt the need for a bigger one again. After A LOT of research I decided to buy a ROCCAT KONE XTD that is honestly the best mouse I have ever had in my hands. The laser (the firmware is updated so there is no nasty delay!) is the most accurate one I have tried. For a lower budget you can get the ROCCAT KONE pure (without leds) but with the stabilized mousewheel. ROCCAT had problems with it before, but the new mice are just perfect  

I swear the XTD keeps coming up in my search for a replacement for my G5.  I went to Fry's to try to check one out and... they had lots of other models but no XTD.  The Kone + shape seemed like it would work out but as they weren't open I wasn't able to give one a fair test.  I may have to find a Fry's that has the XTD in stock and try one out. 

Otherwise I may just bit the bullet and try a G500s or possibly G400s.

I was also in for a g400s, then read 'some' reviews (like 60 or so lol). Then I tried one and it was nothing like the mx518 (plus they didn't fix their cable issues), thats why I thought I should get a g500s. Apperently the laser of this mouse makes high-pitched squeeks from time to time that tend to get very loud after a year, having people returning the mouse because of that. So I guess LG is pretty much dead to me because of things like this. With the Roccat mice the only problem was the mousewheel, which got fixed with the new kone ed. (Just make sure to get one with the new "titan wheel") If you read rumors about a 'failing laser' or 'overreacting laser' that has also been fixed with the new firmware.
Best mouse I ever had. I will never go with another I guess!

Best mouse I have ever used.

Those are the same reviews I've been reading which has stalled my purchase of a G500s or G400s.  Yet nothing else seems to have the height of the 400/500 shape.  The DA wasn't quite comfortable for me to palm (needed height, length, or possibly a bit of both) and the Mamba looks like it's about the same shape.

The XTD looks promising in trying to avoid the problematic Logitech mice.  It does seem a bit shorter than the Logitech but seems to have dimensions to compensate for that to still make it comfy.  I'm hoping a nearby Fry's does have them so I can pick one up and return if it doesn't work out.  Much easier than trying to order and return to Newegg and I don't think Amazon allows returns on opened mice or so I read.

[ssdt]

Just curious; how is the G400 nothing like the MX518? It's the exact same shape, the earlier models even had sensors with prediction like on the MX518.

It just felt less 'worth the money', it's kind of hard to describe, let's take the mousewheel for expamle, it just felt not very reliable when scrolling. I'm not talking about the sensor, just the way the mouse feels in my hand.

Damn, I nearly fell over laughin', a mouse that actually squeaks (I want one).  A true 'living' rodent  .

I was thinking about the same when I read the reviews

[demik]

deathadder ftw

[Niomosy]

deathadder ftw

I wish it were longer and taller

[Cafiend]

I use a Razer Deathadder. I have a love and hate relationship with it. My hands are large and claw grip..my pinky nail rubs off the end ..lol.

So I just ordered a Steelseries Ikari and that thing doesn't fit my hand at all. I wanted to like it but can't 

Back to using the Razer until I find something else. I am almost tempted to look at Logitech again.

[ynrozturk]

The new Logitech mice looks nice. You may also want to check out the Cyborg R.A.T. 7 - extremely comfortable mouse. Gotta love that pinky rest.

[Saturn]

Just curious; how is the G400 nothing like the MX518? It's the exact same shape, the earlier models even had sensors with prediction like on the MX518.

It just felt less 'worth the money', it's kind of hard to describe, let's take the mousewheel for expamle, it just felt not very reliable when scrolling. I'm not talking about the sensor, just the way the mouse feels in my hand.

You guys are probably talking about different mice.  The G400 is not the G400s, they're two different products.

I'll always prefer a mouse that just mouses well.  I hate gimmick features.  If it were my choice, I'd have something just like the G400 except without a scroll wheel.  I guess it's a minority opinion because I've never really heard anyone else complain about scroll wheels, but I think it's a ****ty, useless innovation.  If we could go back to mice having a button in the center instead like they did back in the unix days, we'd be so much better off.  I never really use my scroll wheel in games, but a central button is something I could use all the time.

[PointyFox]

Any mice out there the same shape as the G5 or its successors, or a bit wider?

[Gunni]

I'm not sure what makes a mouse good for "FPS Games" but I use a Razer DeathAdder 2013 and I really like it.

[Emospence]

You guys are probably talking about different mice.  The G400 is not the G400s, they're two different products.

I'll always prefer a mouse that just mouses well.  I hate gimmick features.  If it were my choice, I'd have something just like the G400 except without a scroll wheel.  I guess it's a minority opinion because I've never really heard anyone else complain about scroll wheels, but I think it's a ****ty, useless innovation.  If we could go back to mice having a button in the center instead like they did back in the unix days, we'd be so much better off.  I never really use my scroll wheel in games, but a central button is something I could use all the time.

I don't think I could do without a scroll wheel now :/

[davkol]

Just curious; how is the G400 nothing like the MX518? It's the exact same shape, the earlier models even had sensors with prediction like on the MX518.

It just felt less 'worth the money', it's kind of hard to describe, let's take the mousewheel for expamle, it just felt not very reliable when scrolling. I'm not talking about the sensor, just the way the mouse feels in my hand.

You guys are probably talking about different mice.  The G400 is not the G400s, they're two different products.

I'll always prefer a mouse that just mouses well.  I hate gimmick features.  If it were my choice, I'd have something just like the G400 except without a scroll wheel.  I guess it's a minority opinion because I've never really heard anyone else complain about scroll wheels, but I think it's a ****ty, useless innovation.  If we could go back to mice having a button in the center instead like they did back in the unix days, we'd be so much better off.  I never really use my scroll wheel in games, but a central button is something I could use all the time.

I have to agree with you on this one. Three mouse buttons are extremely useful, the middle one for autoscrolling and copypasta (@ X.Org), and the wheel is usually hard to press. Moreover, scrolling with the wheel leads to repetitive motions... and the you know the RSI thing.

I have to give credit to Apple for using a trackball on the Mighty Mouse;  the Lenovo mouse with a trackpoint could be interesting as well... and at last but not least the scrolling mode on the Kensington SlimBlade is awesome. If they at least used thumb-operated wheels more (MSTE and Logitech MX Revolution, if I'm not mistaken).

[vun]

Just curious; how is the G400 nothing like the MX518? It's the exact same shape, the earlier models even had sensors with prediction like on the MX518.

It just felt less 'worth the money', it's kind of hard to describe, let's take the mousewheel for expamle, it just felt not very reliable when scrolling. I'm not talking about the sensor, just the way the mouse feels in my hand.

You guys are probably talking about different mice.  The G400 is not the G400s, they're two different products.

I'll always prefer a mouse that just mouses well.  I hate gimmick features.  If it were my choice, I'd have something just like the G400 except without a scroll wheel.  I guess it's a minority opinion because I've never really heard anyone else complain about scroll wheels, but I think it's a ****ty, useless innovation.  If we could go back to mice having a button in the center instead like they did back in the unix days, we'd be so much better off.  I never really use my scroll wheel in games, but a central button is something I could use all the time.

Eh, the G400s and G400 are pretty much identical physically, the only difference is the surface materials on part of the s and the new sensor. Shape is pretty important for how a mouse feels, so considering that they are the exact same shape I think considering them widely different products is a bit weird.

Any mice out there the same shape as the G5 or its successors, or a bit wider?

If you want that shape I think you'll have to stick with Logitech, no other brand(that I am aware of) uses that shape or anything that feels much like it. The G500s is probably your best bet, but it's pretty much the same shape as the G5, although I think the thumb rest is a bit wider.

[daerid]

If you want that shape I think you'll have to stick with Logitech, no other brand(that I am aware of) uses that shape or anything that feels much like it. The G500s is probably your best bet, but it's pretty much the same shape as the G5, although I think the thumb rest is a bit wider.

The only non-Logitech mouse that's close to that shape is the Razer Imperator, which I believe was developed to be direct competition to the G400/G500 mice.

[vun]

If you want that shape I think you'll have to stick with Logitech, no other brand(that I am aware of) uses that shape or anything that feels much like it. The G500s is probably your best bet, but it's pretty much the same shape as the G5, although I think the thumb rest is a bit wider.

The only non-Logitech mouse that's close to that shape is the Razer Imperator, which I believe was developed to be direct competition to the G400/G500 mice.

More like MX518 and G5, the Imperator has been around for some time and was intended to be an evolution of the DA(and also probably, as you say, to directly compete with logitech), I haven't had the chance to try one yet but I saw one in a store today and was so damn tempted to get it.

[davkol]

They've fixed the cord issue on the G400s.

[Niomosy]

The Imperator looks good.  Unfortunately, I've read a lot of problems with quality control and longevity issues on this mouse.  I'd like something that lasts me a long while like my G5 which was purchased in late 2005.

I'm looking at trying the Kone XTD but time and debating which will help my forearm pain out the most between a new mouse and ditching my Ergo 4000 for a Ducky G2 Pro w/ reds. 

[daerid]

Get rid of that ergo 4k. That board gave me wrist problems like nobody's business.

[Niomosy]

Get rid of that ergo 4k. That board gave me wrist problems like nobody's business.

I would love to.  Right now my alternatives I have on hand are worse.  Model M and SGI Granite.  I've tried both and the forearm pain comes more quickly than the 4k.  I'll probably end up getting the G2 Pro and hopefully pick up a mouse as well just to seal the deal.  The G5's behaving for now but clicking is getting a bit hard at times.

[sor]

MX518-G400-G400s i own and use all this mice!

[Elrick]

MX518-G400-G400s i own and use all this mice!

Yep, the MX518, G400 and G500S are the ones in my possession and they are quality mice compared to anything made by Razer.  Please avoid that company's horribly made components.  There is a reason why their keyboards are ignored here on Geekhack and so should their current range of rodents, just not worth the money they're asking.

[Emospence]

MX518-G400-G400s i own and use all this mice!

Yep, the MX518, G400 and G500S are the ones in my possession and they are quality mice compared to anything made by Razer.  Please avoid that company's horribly made components.  There is a reason why their keyboards are ignored here on Geekhack and so should their current range of rodents, just not worth the money they're asking.

People seem to love their Deathadder?

[daerid]

The DA is amazing. Wouldn't buy anything else by Razer (except the new Naga, but only for a specific purpose).

[Emospence]

MX518-G400-G400s i own and use all this mice!

The lip on the right side is annoying me more and more 

[Elrick]

People seem to love their Deathadder?

If they dropped the price to around $10.00 each, which is what it's really worth  . 

My next rodent purchase shall be the Steelseries Ikari which looks good in images but need to actually have it in my hands to see if it's worth the price tag.  Too many mice now are way over priced because of stupid coloured lights that turn on and off and look like cheap Las Vegas Slot Machines (and yes they do keep your money).

[Tarzan]

People seem to love their Deathadder?

If they dropped the price to around $10.00 each, which is what it's really worth  . 

My next rodent purchase shall be the Steelseries Ikari which looks good in images but need to actually have it in my hands to see if it's worth the price tag.  Too many mice now are way over priced because of stupid coloured lights that turn on and off and look like cheap Las Vegas Slot Machines (and yes they do keep your money).

I like my Razer DA13 just fine, although it is a bit light to be an ideal mouse for me.  I keep looking at reviews for the R.A.T. 7, if I find one used for a decent price I may try that one next.

[zerone]

I just bought a Genius Maurus, and it is good. Genius has 30 years of experience in mouse technologie, but they don't make sick brand prices like Razer. I was looking for a small mouse, because i'm a high sensitivity - fingertip grip user. The only thing that annoyed me was the 20g weight which is installed inside of the mouse. But with a small screwdriver it is removable too and i love the mouse now. ^.^