Topre RealForce 105UB (Variable) – The elegant Rubber Dome
I have been following this forum for the past 4 weeks and after I recently bought a new Topre keyboard I felt it’s time to contribute something.
So here is my very first topic: The review of the Topre RealForce 105UB.
It got quite a bit long, but I hope not too long.
PrefacePlease keep in mind that a review like this is nothing more than an opinion of a single person.
It’s neither meant to be nor is a scientific measurement or classification in any way.
I do realize that Topre keyboards are a very controversial topic here on geekhack. Some love it, some hate it.
So this review is not meant to start (yet another) heated or polarized discussion on the topic.
It’s meant to give people who are interested in Topre keyboards some insights. No more, no less.
Please excuse my limited English skills, my native language is German.
I am sorry for any misspellings or mistakes, but the good news is: If you find ‘em, you can keep ‘em!
About meI think it helps when the person reviewing tells a bit about himself and his history with other similar goods (in this case keyboards).
It puts his opinion into perspective. If he has the same opinion like me on keyboards I already know, then there is a great chance we share the same opinion about the reviewed keyboard and hence I might better estimate if I will like or dislike it.
And it might be entertaining and a good opportunity to introduce myself to the community.
So first a bit about myself.
I began using computers when I was about 9 years old.
At that time I got a C64 and I was immediately blown away by all the things I could do with it, especially coding.
The moment I discovered the BASIC interpreter on it I lost my heart to software development.
Since then I’ve used ATARI computers, an IBM PS/2, a 386 and later on my first 486.
Now, 21 years later I am working as a self-employed software developer and have been doing so for about 11 years now.
I almost exclusively do development with C# / .NET nowadays.
Like many programmers I don’t do touch typing (but I am working on it). I use my own method where I use up to 6 fingers simultaneously.
However my typing speed is still a good 60 wpm for German texts and I can type blindly for about 80% of the time.
I only use full size keyboards, because I have to do accounting on every end of the month, so I do appreciate the Numpad.
Keyboards I have used so farIBM Model M (Buckling Spring)That was the first Keyboard I’ve used and for which I can still remember how it felt.
I loved it very much for its tactility and especially the gorgeous sound, while other members of my family hated me, because they couldn’t get any sleep while I was hammering on it at nights
+ Build like a tank
+ Great tactility
+ Nice sound
- Very loud (definitely nothing for an office environment with others)
All kinds of rubber domesIn all the years I have used an endless number of low to middle priced rubber domes.
Well, there is not much to say about them. They did what they were designed for. Some of them even did not feel that bad. But it was not very pleasant to use them for long coding session.
+ Cheap
+ Easy to replace (because they’re cheap and available everywhere)
+ Doesn’t die immediately when you hit on it (back in the 90s Windows used to crash a lot and I used to hit on my keyboard a lot
)
- Not ergonomic at all
- Not very pleasant to type on
Cherry G83-6105LUNDE-2 (Rubber Dome)Actually not that bad of a keyboard as long as you don’t compare it to any kind of mechanical keyboard. However it is not really good for long typing sessions. I still have one here (I think it is more than 7 years old now) and it is still working, but it feels terrible.
+ Cheap
+ Very durable (still works after 7 years)
- Hurts after long typing
- Mediocre typing feeling
Cherry G80-3000 LPCDE-2 (MX Black)I think this was my first keyboard with MX switches.
It is quite nice actually. Not superb, but it gets the job done.
I still got one around which is about 4 years old now.
+ Quite cheap
+ Nice typing feeling
+ Works for long typing sessions
+ Quite durable (still works after 4 years)
Thinkpad T500 KeyboardFor me Thinkpads (especially the original IBM ones) always had the best keyboards found in any notebooks for a long time.
The current (Lenovo) models are not as good as the old ones but still better than most notebook keyboards.
+ Very nice typing experience (for a notebook keyboard)
+ Useable for long typing sessions
+ I love the included TrackPoint (still way better than any touchpad I’ve used)
- Expensive (the T500
)
- It’s still a notebook keyboard
Steel Series 7G (MX Black)+ Very good build quality
+ Nice typing experience
+ USB Hub included (can be useful sometimes, but not really a killer feature for me)
- Expensive
- Annoying indicator LEDs (they were way to bright, I put tape on it in the end)
- Very lose keycaps (when it was delivered some keycaps where already floating around in the package)
- Weird layout, especially the way too small backspace key (I prefer the German T1 layout, which is the standard on most German keyboards)
- Bad Included wrist rest (Not comfortable because it’s made of very hard plastic and way to big too)
Unicomp Classic (Model M) (Buckling Spring)I bought this keyboard, because I remembered how much I liked the IBM Model M back in the early 90s and I wanted to upgrade from the Cherry G80-3000 LSCDE-2.
I liked it very much for its build quality, but I could not get warm with it. The high profile keys just didn’t feel “right” to my fingers and I was mistyping all the time.
My fingers often laded in between the keys. Eventually I gave it to my wife and she’s been using ever since. She loves it and wouldn’t give it away for the world.
+ Very high build quality
+ Great tactility
+ Nice sound
+ Very easy to clean
+ When someone’s trying to break into your house you can use it to kill the rubber easily (it’s basically a weapon without the need for a gun license)
- Expensive
- Hard to get here in Germany
- Very loud (I can hear my wife typing on it when I am 2 rooms away)
Cherry G80-3000 LSCDE-2 (MX Blue)This is the keyboard which I have been using for the last 3 years.
I love the feeling of the MX Blues and the clicky sound. This is the keyboard where I can type with the highest accuracy. I can use it for 10 hours in a row without feeling any fatigue.
However the build quality is very, very bad. It is not at all up to what Cherry keyboards use to be like back in the 90s or early 2000s.
In the last 3 years I had to buy a new one every 7 months, because it began to not recognize keystrokes anymore on some keys or it would register multiple for a single keystroke.
I must add that I am a heavy smoker (especially when I am sitting in front of the PC). So after a while a lot of cigarette ash has fallen into it, which is probably not that good for it
Anyway, even under these circumstances I would have expected it to last longer.
+ Quite cheap
+ Available in many shops
+ Great tactility
+ Great sound
- Mediocre build quality (Particularly the current ones)
- Loud
- Very low durability
The Topre RealForce 105 UB (Variable weighting)Reasons to buyI had to replace my Cherry G80-300 LSCDE-2 every 7 months, because it was failing to register keystrokes (see notes above). So I had have enough of that and was looking for a better keyboard that would likely last longer.
This time I wanted to get the damn best keyboard in existence. So I was reading review after review for days to finally realize that there is no such thing as “the best” keyboard.
So I started to define my requirements for “my best” keyboard instead:
- Of course it should last much longer than the cherry board did
- It should have a nice and comfortable typing feeling
- It should be a full size keyboard with a standard (German T1) layout
- It should have a very good build quality
- It should allow me to use it for hours without causing fatigue
Because of the first point I started to search for a switch type that doesn’t have a complex construction with fragile parts (like the Cherry MX switch), can withstand heavy use and is not sensitive to dust or cigarette ash.
That very quickly directed me to the Topre switch. The switch is constructed of very few and very simple parts (PCB (Capacitive Sensor) -> Spring -> Rubber Dome -> Housing) and the rubber dome is protecting the internals from the environments (like dust and ash in my case).
It also utilizes a capacitive mechanism instead of directly closing (or opening) an electrical circuit. So it should in theory not be as sensitive to dirt even when the dirt had entered the internals.
So I thought it might be the best candidate to survive in my environment for more than a couple of months.
I then read as many reviews and opinions I could find on the internet about Topre keyboards.
Most of it I have found here on geekhack. Eventually I decided to give it a try.
UnboxingI ordered the RealForce at the Keyboard Company (England,
http://keyboardco.com/), because this was the only European shop I was able to find that sells Topre keyboards.
I ordered it on the 31th December and chose TNT express for delivery.
It was shipped at the 2nd January (because The Keyboard Company was at vacation till the 2nd) and arrived at the 3rd January. So TNT Express really delivered in just one day!
I must admit I was very excited when the TNT delivery boy rang the doorbell.
I had read so much about the Topre that the night before it even appeared in my dreams.
The packaging was sufficiently good, but the package was missing an invoice. (I email the Keyboard Company about it later and it they sent me one very shortly).
At first I was a bit disappointed because the keyboard came in a cardboard box that was completely blank on the outside.
I was expecting a box that had the famous “Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber” printed on it. The box felt quite heavy.
In it there was only the Keyboard itself and a short manual / specifications sheet.
First ImpressionsMy very first impression was: “Wow, what a build quality!”.
The Keyboard is very heavy and the surface feels very nice.
Right at the beginning I noticed the coating on the USB cable. It has a very nice “feel” and looks like it is an industrial quality.
The PBT keycaps looked and felt very nice too.
The keyboard is a bit slimmer than my cherry G80-3000 which I appreciate.
Build QualityI do not have a single thing to say against its build quality.
It is a very fine piece of craftsmanship.
It’s very heavy and reminds me a lot of the IBM Model M / Unicomp.
It’s “build like a tank” too (although the Model M is still the mother of all tanks). It has very little flex and feels incredibly solid.
The Keycaps feel very nice and solid and way better than any other keyboard I have used so far (apart from the Model M / Unicomp maybe).
They have a smooth, somewhat textured finish. It’s hard to describe, but it doesn’t fell as “plasticy” and plain as other keycaps I’ve used.
TypingFor me (as probably for most other people here too) the feeling when I type on a keyboard is by far the most important aspect of a keyboard.
Built-in USB hub, background lighting and media keys: Such things have no importance to me at all.
Typing on the RealForce is somewhat similar to other rubber domes, yet completely different. It’s somewhat confusing at first.
It’s much smoother to type on the Topre switches. It takes way less energy to do so than on common rubber dome.
Someone described it as typing on a small trampoline. That’s actually a very accurate description.
It feels very pleasant to type on it.
For me that’s the biggest difference to a common rubber dome.
You literally feel the build quality when you type on it.
The variable weighting of the keys works pretty well for me. However I do not feel the different key weighting very much. I can tell it when I deliberately watch for it, but in daily use I barely notice it.
Anyway, for me it is not a perfect typing experience yet:
I do mistype much more on the Topre than I used to do on the cherry G80-3000 (MX Blues).
It’s somewhat a similar experience than what I had with the Unicomp Model M. My fingers often simply hit the wrong key or they do not land in the middle of the key, but rather on the edge of the keycap.
However the keys on the Topre do not have a high profile opposed to the Model M and the keycaps have a very similar shape as the ones on my cherry board. So it must be something else.
I guess it has something to do with the force required to actuate the keys. When I type on the MX blues, they feel very light. The Topre switches feel much heavier to me.
But I guess people doing touch typing will have much less problems with mistyping on it. It could also be the much less visible key letterings on the Topre.
Maybe I look at the keyboard much more than I am realizing and because the gold on black lettering on the Topre is much less visible than on the cherry I might simply have more difficulties seeing the right keys to hit.
I also noticed that the letterings on the cherry do have a much bigger font, so another reason why they are much better visible on the cherry board.
Some people here have said that it takes some time for the Topre switches to “break-in”.
I wonder if that’s true. I have used the Topre now for about a week and the problem with the mistyping got a bit better, but it has not improved as much as I would like it yet.
I will keep an eye on it and report my experiences here after some more time has passed.
The million dollar question: “Is it just an expensive rubber dome?”Yes and no.
Of course technically it is a rubber dome. It has rubber cups to provide the tactility and support for the keycaps, so of course it is a rubber dome keyboard.
But besides the technical definition, most people associate this with the term “rubber dome”: Cheap, rough feeling, bad quality, no/bad tactility, not useable for long time without fatigue.
This is where the Topre differs from all other rubber domes I have used so far.
It’s has a way better quality, is much smoother and I can use it for a longer time before feeling fatigue.
Comparing a common rubber dome to a Topre is like comparing a 20$ crack hooker to a 1000$ / hour high class hooker:
It’s still a hooker, but “feels” (both metaphorically and literally speaking
) very different and is much more elegant (hence the title of this review).
(Sorry to all the ladies here for this kind of comparison
)
So to answer the question: Yes it is an expensive rubber dome, but not “just” an expensive rubber dome.
Conclusion or “Is it worth the price?”At first I was amazed by the RealForce and disappointed at the same time.
Amazed because of the very high build quality (which I appreciate a lot in any kind of product).
You can actually feel the build quality when typing on it.
Disappointed because it felt a bit (!) like other rubber domes.
After I’ve read a lot about Topre keyboards before, my expectations where getting very high (and of course because of the high price tag).
I was expecting a “completely new typing experience”, which is probably an expectation which no keyboard can fulfill.
In the next days I was constantly battling with myself.
Had I paid a too high price for this thing?
Do I just think it’s great because it must be great based on the high price?
Now some time later I calm down a bit and my conclusion so far is:
It is a very nice keyboard. But it’s not a perfect one. (But I guess as with most things in life there is no perfect thing).
However I think that the RealForce does fulfill all of my requirements.
Due to the build quality and the construction it will probably last much longer than my cherry board.
I can type on it with a good enough accuracy (not perfect yet, but I hope it will improve over time).
And I do not feel fatigue even after long usage.
So is it worth the price? For me: Yes.
It does what I wanted it do to, even though at a very high price and not in an absolutely perfect way.
On the other hand I use this keyboard to do my work for a living.
I have paid much, much more on software and PC hardware that I need for my work.
So in comparison with other work related “tools” which I purchased, the price of the Topre is actually quite low.
And I think that’s the whole point of Topre keyboards:
As far as I can tell these are not targeted for gamers or enthusiasts (besides the HHKB of course), but they are designed as tools for professionals.
It’s simply a workhorse.
So too sum it up in one sentence:
For me the Topre keyboard is an “elegant rubber dome”.
So would I recommend a Topre keyboard to others?
Yes, if...
...you do have a need for a particular attribute that only a Topre board can offer (like in my case the resistance to a harsh environment aka cigarette ash).
...you’re looking for a special, exclusive product (but there are other exclusive boards too).
...you need a good workhorse for your work.
No, if...
...you’re just looking for a great keyboard.
...you absolutely hate the feeling of rubber domes (I mean not just the cheapness of most rubber domes, but the actual general feeling of typing on rubber).
I hope you liked this review and I furthermore hope that it helps at least some other people on deciding if they should or should not give a Topre board a try.
