Author Topic: Apple Pro Mouse  (Read 10490 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5860
Apple Pro Mouse
« on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 10:24:18 »
My college is dumping out lots of old electronics as of late (got myself an AEKII in pretty good condition earlier) . One of the things I also found is an Apple Pro Mouse -



I tried this thing earlier, and I must say that I quite liked it. Because the whole upper body is a button, you can just rest your hand on it, and actuate it with your knuckles. It's also quite ergonomicly shaped.

Of course, the flipside of this is that it's a single button only mouse, which makes it rather useless for Windows or Linux. I know someone who may be able to give me a loan of the udpated Mighty Mouse. I've heard some good things and some bad things about it, but given some of it's features, I think it would be worth trying one for a few days to see what I think.

Any thoughts on these mice?

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 10:29:05 »
My thoughts...I'd take a whole bunch of them if I could find them...some for assorted modifications, some for selling to silly Mac users for $40 each.
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline hyperlinked

  • Posts: 924
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 11:21:01 »
Apple's older mice are nothing to crow about for the most part, but there's one good thing you can say about some of them like the Pro mouse and you've already identified it. Since the whole surface is the button, it's easy for people to click and hold the click if they've got hand problems.

On Macs you can always get a right click by holding down the control key and doing a left click. I suppose if you had software to do that on a WinPC, you could do the same.

Anyway, I bolded "holding the click" because that's a lot harder on your hands than merely clicking. Even if you have a low force button on a quality mouse, it can still be very hard on your hands to click, hold, and drag. It's kinda the equivalent of bottoming out extremely hard. The average person probably applies way too much force into the mouse trying to simultaneously keep a button depressed while stabilizing it enough to move it around. The one big button gives the average user more control.
-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
Displays: Apple Cinema Display 30", Apple Cinema Display 23"
Ergo Devices: Zody Chair, Nightingale CXO, Somaform, Theraball, 3M AKT180LE Keyboard Tray

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 12:09:40 »
That is literally the one key I never press on a keyboard.  I bet the switches on all the keyboards I have ever owned are still "virgin."  The Windows key I can understand, but the Task key is utterly worthless.


Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 12:32:35 »
Quote from: itlnstln;160653
That is literally the one key I never press on a keyboard.  I bet the switches on all the keyboards I have ever owned are still "virgin."  The Windows key I can understand, but the Task key is utterly worthless.

Task = Context menu, apparently.

Better by far than the stupid Shift+F10 to accomplish the same thing.
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 12:36:37 »
Quote from: kishy;160654
Task = Context menu, apparently.
 
Better by far than the stupid Shift+F10 to accomplish the same thing.

[Both of these methods] < right click.


Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 12:47:29 »
Quote from: itlnstln;160658
[Both of these methods] < right click.


Try that with no pointing device plugged in.
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 12:49:41 »
Quote from: kishy;160660
Try that with no pointing device plugged in.

Why would I want to do that?


Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 12:59:12 »
Quote from: kishy;160660
Try that with no pointing device plugged in.

Worked fine on my thinkpad, :biggrin: , that's why I like keyboards with trackpoints, don't have to keep up with, or have room for, a mouse.  Having said that, I do have a lot of keyboards without trackpoints, unfortunately.  Hmm, I think I have some old thinkpad keyboards in my junkbox, maybe time for some transplants?  Sounds like work though, :sad:

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5860
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 13:45:41 »
Quote from: kishy;160660
Try that with no pointing device plugged in.


At that point, you're probably doing something seriously wrong.

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 14:04:53 »
...lol

I would hope it was obvious I meant on systems where perhaps the port you'd plug such a device into is not working, not installed or perhaps doesn't even exist (such as my test bench system with no PS/2, intermittent USB and serial ports that...act up at best).
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline HaaTa

  • Master Kiibohd Hunter
  • Posts: 794
  • Location: San Jose, CA, USA
  • Kiibohds!
    • http://kiibohd.com
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 17:10:33 »
Quote from: itlnstln;160661
Why would I want to do that?


In Linux if you go Shift+NumLock you can activate Pointer_EnableKeys which will allow you to control the pointer with the keypad arrows.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 17:22:39 »
...
ha....Apple Mouse...single button, single click...typical.....a simple mouse for simple users.

iWipe all the way

............
Spec57

Offline hyperlinked

  • Posts: 924
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 17:33:56 »
Quote from: Specter_57;160728
...
ha....Apple Mouse...single button, single click...typical.....a simple mouse for simple users.

iWipe all the way


Indeed, every single one of them are idiots. Including me.
-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
Displays: Apple Cinema Display 30", Apple Cinema Display 23"
Ergo Devices: Zody Chair, Nightingale CXO, Somaform, Theraball, 3M AKT180LE Keyboard Tray

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5860
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 19:32:34 »
Excellent. I love people who refuse to throw aside their preconceptions aside for two seconds to appreciate an interesting design feature.

The design is not necessarily mutually exclusive with more than one button. The addition of side buttons like the later Mighty Mouse could convert it into a perfectly suitable three button mouse.

Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 3621
  • President of geekhack.org
    • Get Internet Explorer 6
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 19:45:03 »
I hate Apple mice. I had to use them for years. They're simply pieces of garbage. There's the dumb ones with only one button, and then the stupid ones that don't right-click reliably. Any Microsoft mouse made within the past 25 years outdoes an Apple mouse by a long shot.
CLICK HERE!     OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF GEEKHACK.ORG    MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS

Offline hyperlinked

  • Posts: 924
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 25 February 2010, 21:31:04 »
Quote from: ch_123;160755
The design is not necessarily mutually exclusive with more than one button. The addition of side buttons like the later Mighty Mouse could convert it into a perfectly suitable three button mouse.

While I find the side "squeeze" buttons a little bizarre on the mighty mouse models, one interesting consequence of it is that it encourages people to use a fingertip mousing style in order to have access to the button. Just about all conventional mice are designed for palm handing.
-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
Displays: Apple Cinema Display 30", Apple Cinema Display 23"
Ergo Devices: Zody Chair, Nightingale CXO, Somaform, Theraball, 3M AKT180LE Keyboard Tray

Offline In Stereo!

  • Posts: 173
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 26 February 2010, 04:57:52 »
Quote from: itlnstln;160661
Why would I want to do that?


It is not really something to use on regular basis, but in some rare occasions it proved quite useful to me.

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 08:15:16 »
..

OK...maybe I shouldn't have made my comment the way I did a few postings back.

I can actually see the point of getting a few units, but for modding, not as-is use.

I never liked Mac hardware for various reasons....and I still remember the time a friend had his mouse die on an ancient LC-575...couldn't find a replacement mouse for under $100 at the time...and so yours truly researches and finds out you could use a PC type mouse, RS-232 on the LC-575, with a driver, also found.
But of course, the serial connector in the real world is a 9-pin DB type, Mac just had to use an 8-pin DB, soldered in ATX style, even though it was also RS-232.

Long story short, $7 for a new mouse, driver installed and a DB 9 soldered\hacked into that POS.
Kept that machine of his running long after it should have met it's demise...due to the info found on this page.....everything you never wanted to know about older Macs (it's actually a pretty good page...if you know how to find what you need to)
http://www.lowendmac.com/

Gawd.....

Of course, nowadays he's using a PC...makes my maintenance life a lot easier..haha

.....
Spec57
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 February 2010, 21:33:35 by Specter_57 »

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:11:02 »
9 pin DE type.

Unlike touchpad/trackpad, I can back this up with evidence that it is the only correct way to say it lol.

Having a Mac LC 580 (same exact machine as a 575 but with CD-ROM drive) and previously a 475 (and having a friend with an SE) I know they've got a mini-DIN jack for serial. The D-sub is a lot tougher...after many uses it won't loosen up...but a mini-DIN is a much better connector from both a usability and port size/arrangement perspective.
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:15:04 »
..
Kishy...

Since you do have an older Mac or two...DO check out that page I linked to...if you weren't already aware of it, that is.

Just a semi-random example of the sort of info in that page...I used this page to do a RAM upgrade to 64MB of EDO on that machine I mentioned...officially cannot do more than 32MB plug-in plus 4MB on board.

looky-see:   http://lowendmac.com/macinschool/2k0207.html

.......
Spec57
« Last Edit: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:24:29 by Specter_57 »

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:22:54 »
Quote from: Specter_57;161121
..
Kishy...

Since you do have an older Mac or two...DO check out that page I linked to...if you weren't already aware of it, that is.

Just a semi-random example of the sort of info in that page...I used this page to do a RAM upgrade to 64MB of EDO on that machine I mentioned...officially cannot do more than 32MB plug-in plus 4MB on board.

loky-see: http://lowendmac.com/macinschool/2k0207.html

.......
Spec57

Yes, thanks, though I have already quite a while back.

The 580 was free from my high school, the 475 was at the side of the road. I took in the 475 to practice case painting and ended up with a pretty decent black 475 + monitor + AppleDesign keyboard. Sold the mess with an ADB Mouse II for $25 or $30, I forget now. All the guy wanted was the hard drive but I had no interest in keeping the rest of it...disposing of computers you don't want here is impossible without a car.

RAM...I've got my 580 to the max it'll take without doing any sort of expensive or extravagant modifications (50-something MB IIRC).
« Last Edit: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:26:21 by kishy »
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:29:06 »
..

Disposing of computers without a car is not so difficult...just select your "relocation" site..haha...and I've noticed...anything computer I've put out doesn't stay on the sidewalk all that long..and I almost always check out curbside computers...got a fully functional P4B-2.5GHz relatively modern...reason it was put out?  Button cell measured 0.3v...new cell...haha new computer.

The same friend who has/had the LC-575...was walking up to his place one time, and saw a complete G-3 out on the road 'free to a good home'.

So I get to his place, we come back and salvage the whole thing...bum PSU in it and so fixed in a moment...I actually didn't mind working on that machine, as it is almost a PC  haha.

.......
Spec57
« Last Edit: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:33:08 by Specter_57 »

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:32:12 »
Oh yeah, got an ethernet card out of the 475...kept that for the 580. I've taken it online but it's not pretty.

G3 and up is very much PC compatible in a hardware sense...at least expansion. I think they were on to normal RAM and expansion cards by that point, and for the most part had abandoned SCSI for internal peripherals (SCSI was losing its advantages as ATA caught up, so there was no real reason to keep using something more expensive with few benefits).
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 10:38:15 »
..

Another upgrade I did on the LC-575...the original 250MB SCSI disk was starting to act up...and so after getting silly prices on 1.2 and 2.1GB internal SCSIs...went to a used parts/recycler downtown, and got a 2.1GB NEW drive for only $29...had to use a special installation to get around Mac rejecting non-Apple or -Mac drives..but it worked...better, bigger and faster.

Was in the machine untill it's last day.


.......
Spec57

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 11:04:45 »
575 had SCSI for HDD?

That's another difference I guess...the 580 used ATA. I do believe it was one of the first to do so. Idiotic thing was it still used SCSI for the optical drive.

"Been there, done that" with the patched HD SC setup program. Had to use it on the 475 I mentioned earlier, the drive that came with that crapped out quickly after I got it so I tracked down a 500 or 700MB drive, popped it in the CD-ROM bay of my 580, copied everything onto the new drive from the 580s ATA drive, then popped the new one in the 475...presto. Wish it were that easy with Windows.
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 14:33:51 »
..
Yep.

That 575 had an internal 50-pin SCSI interface for the drive.

...and I agree...wish it was that easy for Windows, as you mention.

Almost was with OS/2, but that's for another thread...this one's been side-tracked enough as it is...ha  seems to happen in GH a lot, drift off-topic.

But then...we all learn something out of it...I hope.


......
Spec57

Offline shrap

  • Posts: 215
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 02 March 2010, 12:48:58 »
The only Apple input device I've not immediately hated is the "button free" glass touchpad on the Macbooks. Even that is quite dependent on software.

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 02 March 2010, 13:09:32 »
The ADB Mouse II, assuming a clean ball and rollers, isn't terribly bad...assuming you've got the sensitivity cranked up they're pretty usable, especially on machines/software that wouldn't benefit from a scroll wheel or second button simply because their design doesn't incorporate such features.
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline Specter_57

  • Posts: 143
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 02 March 2010, 13:56:57 »
..
As much as I dislike Macs...both in deliberate hardware incompatibilitiyes (my Mac-owning buddy many times asked me why I "have such a hard-on for Macs...")... and the snobbishness of many users of it ...fact is not all is bad...

..and there is much to be desired in the PC world and the various operating systems that PCs can use.

  fact is, we are essentially stuck with the "WinTel"...wrinkles and all.

......
Spec57

Offline msiegel

  • Posts: 1230
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 02 March 2010, 14:17:54 »
for now... :)


Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5860
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 18 March 2010, 16:54:18 »
I got a loan of someone's old Mighty Mouse today. The thing is a classic case of something that was well designed but not well engineered, so that the things that sound good on paper are the things that cause the mouse to fail in practise. Let's consider them -

1. The design is like an extension of the single button Pro Mouse with touch-sensitive technology to detect which button you want to press. So you can click with your whole hand, but by pressing down on the right you right click, or by pressing down on the scroll ball you can middle click. It also has touch sensitive side buttons, and supposedly OS X has the ability to define points around the side of the mouse as additional buttons.

2. It has a nice little miniature trackball that allows you to scroll in all directions. If it worked, it would probably be a rather pleasant way of scrolling through web pages or documents.

Now, how the implementation fails -

1. Because they want to preserve the ability to click with your hand, you now have a problem - if you are pressing down on the surface with your fingers, how does the mouse know whether you're left clicking, or pressing all the buttons at once? This is where the touch sensitive controls come into play... if more than one finger is rested on the mouse, any press will be counted as a left click. So if you want to right click you have to lift all your fingers off and press down on the right hand side with a single finger only. Same story for middle click. This is rather inconvenient if you use the right and middle buttons frequently. I guess in OS X where they don't use the other buttons as much, this is an acceptable trade off, but in Windows or Linux, not as much so.

The force-sensitive buttons on the side are a bit weird. If you look inside the mouse (I'd make my own, but there's billions of them up if you google 'Mighty Mouse disassembly') you'd see that unlike the weird contacts for the top mouse buttons, they push against contacts on the PCB... I'm not entirely sure why they didn't just use run of the mill tactile switches for them. Since I don't think cost is an issue here, I think Apple was trying to keep to it's whole 'touch sensitive' theme in places where it maybe wasn't best suited.

Some reviews complained that the side buttons are put in a bad place, but I didnt use the mouse enough to have an opinion either way.

2. As I kinda hinted above, the trackball is rather unreliable. In fact, if you google Mighty Mouse, you'll see loads of links for people complaining about dead scroll wheels, and offering various cleaning tips. I have seen some people say that these cleaning tips do not work, and indeed, despite disassebling the one I had completely, I could not get the thing to work. I was told that the previous owner attempted to disassemble and repair it, so it might have been damaged there.

The problem is that balls pick up dirt, but in a ball this small, the tiny mechanism gets clogged up with unacceptable amounts of dirt too easily. Furthermore, it's not easy to remove the ball (to open the mouse you have to break open a seal on it's underside which is sealed on by glue, fortunately this had already been done when I got it) so it's hard for the average user to clean it (the usual advice given is to damp a cloth with Isopropanol, turn the mouse upside down and roll the ball around in it, or blow into the ball with an airduster) A design like the IBM Scrollpoint which includes a trackpoint as a scroller would be a much more effective solution, as it requires no cleaning, and involves less effort as you are just applying force to stick as opposed to constantly rotating a ball in a manner which will probably tire your fingers out.

Hell, even if it was implemented perfectly, it's still miles inferior to either my CST or KEM. It's going back to the person I loaned it from tomorrow.

Offline EverythingIBM

  • Posts: 1269
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 18 March 2010, 17:53:42 »
Quote from: kishy;160645
My thoughts...I'd take a whole bunch of them if I could find them...some for assorted modifications, some for selling to silly Mac users for $40 each.


LOL! That's totally what I'd do too (the one good thing about apple stuff: you can sell it for ultra inflated prices). I'm surprised people would pay big bucks for things like that. Maybe you can mod one of them, and charge an extra $40 for another button.

Damn, should have salvaged all of that vintage apple stuff and sold it to crazy "Appleites" who are obsessed with it.
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 March 2010, 17:57:06 by EverythingIBM »
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5860
Apple Pro Mouse
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 18 March 2010, 18:06:07 »