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Author Topic: Learning the Das ult  (Read 4341 times)

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Offline Hyperion

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Learning the Das ult
« on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 05:52:53 »
I just received my das ult a few days ago and I really like it, but I find that typing has become much harder. I'm used to dome membranes so I press too much on these blue Cherrys so it gives a very ugly sound when I hit the bottom. This makes me have to type with a softer touch, which means that I have to slow down or miss a key because I pressed it too lightly.

Is there any advice anyone can give me for typing on a mechanical keyboard because my shoulders and elbows are hurting quite a bit.

The only thing that pisses me off with this keyboard is that I have to slow down a lot when I'm using the calculator or just numbers in general.

My wpm has dropped from 60 to 40, but my accuracy has increased to pretty much 100%. If what metadot says is true, then I could be typing at 80 wpm within a few weeks. The only problem is the bottoming out sound, otherwise my first mechanical keyboard is great.

One last thing, if I wanted to learn DVORAK, should I learn it on a blank keyboard and spend hours trying to find the letters? A qwerty keyboard wouldn't help since the lettering is all wrong, and a blank one is the same or even better than one with letters. How long does it take for you guys to learn DVORAK, and is it worth spending that much time learning it?

[edit]: Is it safe to try to rip off the keycaps? I have tried quite hard just to take a look at the cherry blues but I have't had any luck and I don't want to wreck a brand new keyboard.
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 April 2009, 05:57:53 by Hyperion »
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Offline kyamei

  • Posts: 140
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 05:59:49 »
I'm not into that whole not bottoming out thing, so I'd say just type however is comfortable for you.  You will adjust to the board overtime from use.
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Topre:  Realforce 101, Realforce 87U, HHKB Pro 2
Cherry Brown:  Compaq MX11800
Cherry Blue:  Filco FKBN87MC/EB
Cherry Black:  K-202 numerical keypad
Alps Black:  AT101W, ABS M1
Alps White:  Focus FK-2001
Buckling Springs:  Model M 1391401, Lexmark Model M 82G2383, Model M2
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Offline FKSSR

  • Posts: 529
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 06:19:23 »
Personally, I only like typing on white-alps and buckling spring keyboards, because I bottom out too much on other keyboards, and it causes my fingers to hurt.  However, it is possible to just learn to type softer, as many have done here.  It's really up to you, on what you want to do.

You can pull off the key caps, but I recommend you get a tool like this so that you don't cause any damage.  Key caps on cherry switches are pretty easy to pull off, and you may even be able to use a couple paperclips.  Personally, though, I only use the "official" key puller tool. :)
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Offline bhtooefr

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Learning the Das ult
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 07:25:01 »
Use the tactility.

When you feel the key "let go," do the same - let go. With practice, you'll be able to avoid bottoming out, or at least greatly reduce the force with which you bottom out.

Anyway, the methods I've heard to learn Dvorak involve a program that displays the keyboard layout on the screen, but avoiding looking at the keyboard (well, in the case of a Das Ultimate, that's not an issue.) So, you can learn where everything is that way.
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Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 07:32:10 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;85911
Use the tactility.
 
When you feel the key "let go," do the same - let go. With practice, you'll be able to avoid bottoming out, or at least greatly reduce the force with which you bottom out.

 
While I haven't used the blue variety of Cherrys, after only a few hours of typing on the browns, I was not bottoming out near as much as I had with other switches.  If you are coming from rubber domes, this will be a hard habit to break as you have to bottom out a rubber dome key to have register.
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Offline Korbin

  • Posts: 131
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 09:14:17 »
Strange that you type slower when you try to not bottom out. Generally speaking people seem to say their typing speed goes up when they learn to relax their fingers and not push on the keys so hard.

If you want to learn Dvorak you are better off learning it touch typing instead of hunting for the keys ( which means you shouldn't have to look at the keyboard at all), otherwise you loose the benefits of using an alternate layout.
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Offline Viett

  • Posts: 224
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 18:22:12 »
Quote from: Hyperion;85894
One last thing, if I wanted to learn DVORAK, should I learn it on a blank keyboard and spend hours trying to find the letters? A qwerty keyboard wouldn't help since the lettering is all wrong, and a blank one is the same or even better than one with letters. How long does it take for you guys to learn DVORAK, and is it worth spending that much time learning it?


I would only recommend Dvorak if you wanted to learn another layout for the sake of learning. There is no clear evidence that Dvorak is faster. In my personal opinion, it is much more comfortable, but I don't know if it's worth the effort. It'll take you about a day to memorize all the key positions by touch (use a keymap for finger positions; this is in QWERTY). To get your speeds up to 60+ WPM, however, it could take up to three months.
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Keyboards: FKBN87MC/NPEK, Dell AT101W (Black), IBM Model M 1391401 (91) x 2, Deck 82 Fire, Cherry MX8100 (Clears), Siig Minitouch
Layouts: Colemak (100WPM), QWERTY (100WPM) -- Alternative Layouts Review

Offline Hyperion

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  • Posts: 24
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 07:40:09 »
I think I'm getting the hang of it; I type slowly because I need to make sure that the keys click but do not bottom out as I am used to dome membranes. The relaxing advice is really hepling, but when I try to type double letters like letter, hello, etc, I end up actually holding down the keys to get the two of them out.
I don't think that I will try DVORAK because I don't have enough spare time on my hands. I tried that link that webwit posted and it seems that qwerty is pretty bad compared to the other layouts. I copied this post into that comparer and it seems that qwerty is twice as bad as the other two.
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Offline Alpha Omicron

  • Posts: 12
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 28 April 2009, 19:42:53 »
I switched layouts by affixing a print-out of the keys above my monitor for the first two weeks or so. This was using a DAS3ULT.
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I type on a DASK3ULT using the Colemak keyboard layout.[/SIZE]

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 29 April 2009, 13:47:34 »
I'll be getting a Das Ult soon. My plan is to put a 2nd keyboard in front of it (I have 2 PCs running). If I really need to remind myself where any keys are I can look at that.

I might put some self-adhesive velcro dots on certain keys (not letters) to see if that helps.

Re Dvorak I found this interesting. Might be old news to people here, but it's helped me decide not to learn Dvorak right now.

Edit> You might want to scroll down to "The Fable" heading if you read that link.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 April 2009, 13:49:49 by Rajagra »
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Offline FKSSR

  • Posts: 529
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 29 April 2009, 14:03:38 »
Personally, I think that if you are going to learn another format, Colemak is the way to go.  Dvorak seems to have been outdone by it, at this point.  Qwerty still has convenience in being adopted by the masses (since everyone uses it) and it seems to me that Colemak has the convenience in regards to less finger movement and all that jazz...
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Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 29 April 2009, 15:09:58 »
You know what would be nice? If you could create your own keyboard layout and store it on a USB dongle. (Or on the Internet.) Then when you go to someone else's machine you just plug in the dongle (or download your layout,) and touch-type your heart out.

It's probably possible right now, but with a lot of effort. And you'd need some admin rights on the computer.

Alternatively, how about a Java app on a webpage that converts text between keyboard layouts?
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Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 29 April 2009, 17:48:16 »
Quote from: webwit;88157
http://pkl.sourceforge.net/


That's great, thanks. When my Das arrives I might just dive in the deep end with a new layout.
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Offline Hyperion

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Learning the Das ult
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 30 April 2009, 06:46:21 »
I can type 76 wpm on qwerty now, while I'm just learnin Dvorak for fun. Dvorak feels a lot more comfortable, but it will take many months of pratice to be able to use dvorak (at least 45 wpm is useable).
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Offline FKSSR

  • Posts: 529
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 30 April 2009, 08:51:07 »
I keep saying I'm going to switch to Colemak, but I always chicken out.  I don't ever need to type very fast, and it just doesn't seem worth it.  However, I like webwit's comment, and I think it could be a good thing for me to at least experiment with.
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Offline keyb_gr

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Learning the Das ult
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 30 April 2009, 10:28:41 »
I've been looking into alternative layouts a bit, but it seems like I would need to create German varieties and make them usable in PKL myself first, which seems like a bit of work.
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Offline Alpha Omicron

  • Posts: 12
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 30 April 2009, 10:51:52 »
Quote from: FKSSR;88283
I keep saying I'm going to switch to Colemak, but I always chicken out.  I don't ever need to type very fast, and it just doesn't seem worth it.
It is totally worth it.
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I type on a DASK3ULT using the Colemak keyboard layout.[/SIZE]

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 30 April 2009, 13:51:13 »
Mine arrived today. I love the feel of the keys, and normal typing is easier than I expected, but why oh why are the blips on the F and J keys so small? They are more subtle than on any other keyboard I've used, including laptops. That's the last thing this keyboard needs.
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Offline Alpha Omicron

  • Posts: 12
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 30 April 2009, 14:07:18 »
I don't have much of an issue with the Das' T/N (on Colemak) keys. I think the size they use is pretty much standard, too. Maybe we could start a thread on this issue, and have people measure their nubs (har har).
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I type on a DASK3ULT using the Colemak keyboard layout.[/SIZE]

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Learning the Das ult
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 30 April 2009, 14:33:53 »
I have always been a big fan of the "dots" (like the 5 key on the Filco numpad) over the bar-shaped nubs on the bottom of the keys. The dots seem to be sharper and easier to feel. The Compaq MX-11800 I had used them, and it was very easy to find the home row.
 
 
Sweet.  This was my 2000th post. :D
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