I'm curious as to how well switches stay on the keyboard. With the plate being so thick they can't 'click' in and a solderless PCB, what's holding them in?
I'm curious as to how well switches stay on the keyboard. With the plate being so thick they can't 'click' in and a solderless PCB, what's holding them in?
I'm curious as to how well switches stay on the keyboard. With the plate being so thick they can't 'click' in and a solderless PCB, what's holding them in?
The plate is milled, where the switch is supposed to clip, in that point the plate is 1.5mm
The Zephyr looks fantastic, but the Stabilizer cutouts are quite a concern since it doesn’t extend farther than the nearby switches. It may suffer from the same issue the KBD75 R1 plate had, not allowing the Stabilizer Wire to fully go up, and hitting the plate. Testing with a Aristotle switch may be a good way to test it. :(
The Zephyr looks fantastic, but the Stabilizer cutouts are quite a concern since it doesn’t extend farther than the nearby switches. It may suffer from the same issue the KBD75 R1 plate had, not allowing the Stabilizer Wire to fully go up, and hitting the plate. Testing with a Aristotle switch may be a good way to test it. :(
Clearance with the wire won't be a problem.Show Image(https://puu.sh/zji68/59206f970e.png)
There's a cavity in the plate for the length of the wire. Zeal calls this "Anti Stabilizer Wire Popping Out Technology" ;D
Any full pictures of the top of the case? Any info on layout compatibility without having to decipher from several partial pics of the plate? And if one of the prototypes has been built, I'd be curious to see a typing video or a write up on how the plate sounds and feels compared to a thinner brass. thanks
That blue + gold combination looks great.
I'm wondering what keyset to pair it with?
With a 5 mm thick plate, wouldn't it touch the PCB?
I also don't see any soldermask on these PCB images.
Just want to make sure this will support hot swap sockets sold by Zeal. For a keyboard as expensive as this I don't want it to be locked in with one kind of switch (don't want to do de-solder work either)
Just want to make sure this will support hot swap sockets sold by Zeal. For a keyboard as expensive as this I don't want it to be locked in with one kind of switch (don't want to do de-solder work either)
I was thinking the same thing. Got to protect that investment.
What's the case slope angle? And how high is the front bezel? And I assume it's full hi pro, not fake like m65a?
Reserved
Time Frame:
Feb 7 - Feb 28, collecting orders. Subject to early closure if target quantities met.
March 1: Submit order to the manufacturer
March 15: Receive Zeal65 黑金 Special Edition RGB PCBs
April X: Receive Zephyr bulk shipment, perform QC, etc.
Fulfill all orders within 1 week.
true high profile. You won't see any gaps when keycaps are mounted.
The Zephyr looks fantastic, but the Stabilizer cutouts are quite a concern since it doesn’t extend farther than the nearby switches. It may suffer from the same issue the KBD75 R1 plate had, not allowing the Stabilizer Wire to fully go up, and hitting the plate. Testing with a Aristotle switch may be a good way to test it. :(
Clearance with the wire won't be a problem.Show Image(https://puu.sh/zji68/59206f970e.png)
There's a cavity in the plate for the length of the wire. Zeal calls this "Anti Stabilizer Wire Popping Out Technology" ;D
Just want to make sure this will support hot swap sockets sold by Zeal. For a keyboard as expensive as this I don't want it to be locked in with one kind of switch (don't want to do de-solder work either)
I was thinking the same thing. Got to protect that investment.
Yea, the M60-A and the Tokyo60 are both solderless assembly right out the box. Seems like a tread now. Could the Zephyr65 adopt the same given the layout is already somewhat fixed to ANSI WKL already, shouldn't be too hard
What I do is solder the pads first, then remove solder from the pad holes, before installing the sockets with a soldering iron. It's a little more work, but then you have a PCB that can have switches swapped without the sockets coming out.
What I do is solder the pads first, then remove solder from the pad holes, before installing the sockets with a soldering iron. It's a little more work, but then you have a PCB that can have switches swapped without the sockets coming out.
Any chance you have a picture? Would like to see how much solder you use etc.
Does the plate support costar stabs?
What I do is solder the pads first, then remove solder from the pad holes, before installing the sockets with a soldering iron. It's a little more work, but then you have a PCB that can have switches swapped without the sockets coming out.
Any chance you have a picture? Would like to see how much solder you use etc.
A picture now won't really help, maybe one before you put in the socket would.
I just fill the inside of all the holes with solder, just like making a nice solder joint, so there's a slight dome on the whole pad. Then I put the PCB in a vice and heat up the "joint" with an iron while using a desoldering pump (solder sucker) to suck out the solder from the switch side of the PCB. Then clean up any excess solder from the pad with wick. Ideally you get a very thin amount of solder inside the hole. If it's got a little more (i.e. the hole isn't perfectly round), that's fine, it means the socket won't fit and while you push in the socket with the iron, it will heat up that solder and let it go in fully.
What I do is solder the pads first, then remove solder from the pad holes, before installing the sockets with a soldering iron. It's a little more work, but then you have a PCB that can have switches swapped without the sockets coming out.
Any chance you have a picture? Would like to see how much solder you use etc.
A picture now won't really help, maybe one before you put in the socket would.
I just fill the inside of all the holes with solder, just like making a nice solder joint, so there's a slight dome on the whole pad. Then I put the PCB in a vice and heat up the "joint" with an iron while using a desoldering pump (solder sucker) to suck out the solder from the switch side of the PCB. Then clean up any excess solder from the pad with wick. Ideally you get a very thin amount of solder inside the hole. If it's got a little more (i.e. the hole isn't perfectly round), that's fine, it means the socket won't fit and while you push in the socket with the iron, it will heat up that solder and let it go in fully.
I do this too when I use holtites. One thing to be careful of is if you have too much solder, it will flow through the gaps in the holtites (at least the gold zeal ones) and block the center.
What's the case slope angle? And how high is the front bezel? And I assume it's full hi pro, not fake like m65a?
7.5 degrees, just a bit over 2cm high before bumpons (so expect under 2.5cm with feet), true high profile. You won't see any gaps when keycaps are mounted.
Quick phone pics for now, til I do photoshoot with full keycaps etc over weekend. Actual blue is a bit darker than pictured, but blue colour also shifts depending on day and ambient lighting.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oCgxVAH.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/7AzA2yh.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TotWISs.jpg)
*closest to the blue of the case when no direct light. If under dark ambient conditions, the blue does become very deep/navy.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/BpqLHBA.png)
Quote from: MajorKoos links=topic=93966.msg2558899#msg2558899 date=1518112100Just want to make sure this will support hot swap sockets sold by Zeal. For a keyboard as expensive as this I don't want it to be locked in with one kind of switch (don't want to do de-solder work either)
I was thinking the same thing. Got to protect that investment.
Yea, the M60-A and the Tokyo60 are both solderless assembly right out the box. Seems like a tread now. Could the Zephyr65 adopt the same given the layout is already somewhat fixed to ANSI WKL already, shouldn't be too hard
Beautiful case & PCB. That plate looks THICCCC. When you work your way up to a 75% my wallet is ready. ;)
Seeing more shots of the monochrome black and silver make me regret cancelling it and reordering gray instead.
Seeing more shots of the monochrome black and silver make me regret cancelling it and reordering gray instead. I'm definitely interested in seeing more shots of the gray case; would be nice to know what caps will match it in preparation. Also curious whether it's unmistakably a gray shade or whether it's gray in name only meaning if you didn't know it was called gray whether you could just as well think it was dark silver instead as the initial teaser shot suggests.
would be cool if the grey is like Engima Grey from Norbauer Case or Grey with no blue tint.
I ordered blue one. ;D
What are In Switch RGB LEDs? GMK keycaps are not very translucent.
I ordered blue one. ;D
What are In Switch RGB LEDs? GMK keycaps are not very translucent.
I ordered blue one. ;D
What are In Switch RGB LEDs? GMK keycaps are not very translucent.
I ordered blue one. ;D
What are In Switch RGB LEDs? GMK keycaps are not very translucent.
I’m interested in the blue one as well but can’t decide between silver and gold plates. It seems like silver would be less impactful to any lighting scheme on the exposed silver parts. I wish there were some pics with keycaps and lighting to help me decide. :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd be all over this if 65% wasn't my least favorite layout. Looks great though, can't wait to see the next project.
My only issue is lack of customization. I'd totally consider this if it had winkey layout support.
No ISO option on this PCB? Is that right? Seems an oversight given so many boards offer this? :(
My only issue is lack of customization. I'd totally consider this if it had winkey layout support.
Unfortunately, the RGB LEDs restricted the bottom row options, and supporting two bottom row options wasn't possible.
Hi Zeal - did you get a chance to take any Zephyr pics with switches/keycaps this weekend? Really interested to see more!
Will the Zeal65 PCB offered by itself in the future, like the Zeal60? And will it support other layouts for the bottom?
Will the Zeal65 PCB offered by itself in the future, like the Zeal60? And will it support other layouts for the bottom?
i asked zeal about this while i was trying to get a PCB for a 65% some friends and i are working on, it will NOT be available on its own
Will the Zeal65 PCB offered by itself in the future, like the Zeal60? And will it support other layouts for the bottom?
i asked zeal about this while i was trying to get a PCB for a 65% some friends and i are working on, it will NOT be available on its own
To be perfectly clear, the Zeal65 PCB being produced for Zephyr is also a limited run, as it's specifically designed for the Zephyr case.
That doesn't rule out it being produced in future for other case designs (perhaps with modifications to suit, i.e. USB location, etc.) either sold through ZealPC.net or other vendors.
Waitin on that red now, comes out close to my bday, so hopefully it stays on schedule for a late bday gift.Last time I spoke to Zeal nobody had ordered red. You might be the first Dale :)
Waitin on that red now, comes out close to my bday, so hopefully it stays on schedule for a late bday gift.Last time I spoke to Zeal nobody had ordered red. You might be the first Dale :)
To be perfectly clear, the Zeal65 PCB being produced for Zephyr is also a limited run, as it's specifically designed for the Zephyr case.
To be perfectly clear, the Zeal65 PCB being produced for Zephyr is also a limited run, as it's specifically designed for the Zephyr case.
What happens if you spill beer in your zephyr and PCB dies?
To be perfectly clear, the Zeal65 PCB being produced for Zephyr is also a limited run, as it's specifically designed for the Zephyr case.
What happens if you spill beer in your zephyr and PCB dies?
To be perfectly clear, the Zeal65 PCB being produced for Zephyr is also a limited run, as it's specifically designed for the Zephyr case.
What happens if you spill beer in your zephyr and PCB dies?
- Don't do stupid ****
- Don't do stupid ****
- Don't do stupid ****
This should be clean enough right?Show Image(https://img.purch.com/rc/600x450/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9DL0IvNDQxMDgzL29yaWdpbmFsLzM5LmpwZw==)
- Don't do stupid ****
This should be clean enough right?Show Image(https://img.purch.com/rc/600x450/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9DL0IvNDQxMDgzL29yaWdpbmFsLzM5LmpwZw==)
- Don't do stupid ****
This should be clean enough right?Show Image(https://img.purch.com/rc/600x450/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9DL0IvNDQxMDgzL29yaWdpbmFsLzM5LmpwZw==)
Is this the 4chan sour cream guy?
Any chance for extras?
Any chance for extras?
Probably a R2 later on.
Aluminum parts are being anodized, PCBs scheduled to ship out end of April. Looking at first week of May fulfillment right now.
Any chance for extras?
Probably a R2 later on.
Hey man! It's been awhile. Can we expect fulfillment before FIFA world cup? ;D
I still need to decide on switches for this. Maybe MX silent stems in zeal housings..
What do you guys plan on using?
I still need to decide on switches for this. Maybe MX silent stems in zeal housings..
What do you guys plan on using?
Good impressions overall for the zilents? I've definitely considered it, but I was kinda leaning towards linears for this build. Still undecided though.
Zilents are dope. I have them in my tx1800 for work
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
The Zeal Zilents are very nice! I'm typing on them now in a TX-1800 v2 I built a week or so ago and I can't get it off my desk. The switches (sitting on an amazing acrylic plate Kin had done for this) feel excellent- snappy and tactile but quiet so you're not that guy in conference calls. I'll be going with 67g Zilents in the Zephyr, mostly because the blue in that switch matches the case perfectly and I'm a nerd like that. Otherwise, the 78g Zilents are :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:.
I did this with some 67g Zealios and MX silent black stems on one of my LZ Ergos (67g Zilents on the other :thumb:)
Along with some lube they turned out buttery smooth.
Good impressions overall for the zilents? I've definitely considered it, but I was kinda leaning towards linears for this build. Still undecided though.
Some people need their new keyboards to type on Google looking for streams okayHey man! It's been awhile. Can we expect fulfillment before FIFA world cup? ;D
that's very specific
Manufacturer has said they'll start shipping in batches on Monday, so it's getting close.
Manufacturer has said they'll start shipping in batches on Monday, so it's getting close.
Some people need their new keyboards to type on Google looking for streams okayHey man! It's been awhile. Can we expect fulfillment before FIFA world cup? ;D
that's very specific
Sent from my mobile using Tapatalk
Built this beauty last night! I'll let the pics and sound test do the speaking.Show Image(http://imgur.com/gallery/6WcvjbM)
https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw (https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw)
Will there be an R2?yes
Built this beauty last night! I'll let the pics and sound test do the speaking.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/lTGENsF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZjbIZXc.jpg)
https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw (https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw)
Built this beauty last night! I'll let the pics and sound test do the speaking.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/lTGENsF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZjbIZXc.jpg)
https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw (https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw)
Hmm, that doesn't look like midnight blue to me.
Hope it's just the lighting in the photo.
Built this beauty last night! I'll let the pics and sound test do the speaking.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/lTGENsF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZjbIZXc.jpg)
https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw (https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw)
Hmm, that doesn't look like midnight blue to me.
Hope it's just the lighting in the photo.
you're probably right that its the lighting, quite a colour shift depending on light enviroment. Both times I saw it IRL it looked nice and dark blue.
Ya this was taken outside in bright sunlight. It's a lot darker under normal lighting conditions.Built this beauty last night! I'll let the pics and sound test do the speaking.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/lTGENsF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZjbIZXc.jpg)
https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw (https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw)
Hmm, that doesn't look like midnight blue to me.
Hope it's just the lighting in the photo.
Built this beauty last night! I'll let the pics and sound test do the speaking.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/lTGENsF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ZjbIZXc.jpg)
https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw (https://youtu.be/pWmRqPhRIPw)
Both times I saw it IRL it looked nice and dark blue.
where is software for programming of this board?I would check in his website. I think I saw something posted there last week. I'm still waiting on a shipping notification.
where is software for programming of this board?I would check in his website. I think I saw something posted there last week. I'm still waiting on a shipping notification.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
people are forced to use windows just to program zephyr ??? :eek:
I don't have any computer with windows. I don't want to buy windows computer to program zephyr.
people are forced to use windows just to program zephyr ??? :eek:
I don't have any computer with windows. I don't want to buy windows computer to program zephyr.
could someone please post a video about this keyboard on Youtube?
How do you like the build quality?
...
I will be releasing an OSX version of the Zeal60/Zeal65 configuration tool very soon... i.e. a pre-built executable for OSX.
There hasn't been much need to do an OSX version, since no one has asked for one for Zeal60... most OSX users seem happy to compile QMK themselves.
FWIW I'm working on a GUI-based tool that will be a lot easier to use and will be cross-platform.
How do you like the build quality?
You would be hard pressed to find a fault in anything, it's near perfect
could someone please post a video about this keyboard on Youtube?
What would you like to see? I posted a typing/sound test above. Is there anything else you want to know?
Hi, I would like to see the actual appearance of each surface/angle. Thank you.
I had to swap SA Penumbra for GMK Penumbra. The right CTRL and ALT keys were rubbing against the case and making a racket each time I hit those keys off center. On the plus side I think I've found something that GMK Penumbra actually looks good on.
I had to swap SA Penumbra for GMK Penumbra. The right CTRL and ALT keys were rubbing against the case and making a racket each time I hit those keys off center. On the plus side I think I've found something that GMK Penumbra actually looks good on.
I was curious about how SA keycaps could be rubbing against the case so I tried some SA keycaps and I can't reproduce.
There is plenty of clearance with the case edge, and I can't make the keycaps rub even if I push it intentionally towards the case.
See attached photo with two SA Retro caps compared to GMK Carbon.
could someone please post a video about this keyboard on Youtube?
What would you like to see? I posted a typing/sound test above. Is there anything else you want to know?
Hi, I would like to see the actual appearance of each surface/angle. Thank you.
I was curious about how SA keycaps could be rubbing against the case so I tried some SA keycaps and I can't reproduce.
There is plenty of clearance with the case edge, and I can't make the keycaps rub even if I push it intentionally towards the case.
See attached photo with two SA Retro caps compared to GMK Carbon.
A little bit of a mini video review!
A little bit of a mini video review!
How exciting ! Does Zephyr work with default zeal65 keymap from this repo https://github.com/Wilba6582/qmk_firmware/tree/zeal60 ?
I got Zeal 67g switches with my zephyr. They are more tactile (bit more heavy) than older 67g zealios. I don't know which switches I want to use now.
https://zealpc.net/blogs/news/programming-your-zephyr
https://zealpc.net/blogs/news/programming-your-zephyr
There is that Zeal65.exe thing again! I cant use it in Apple computer. I dont have windows computer.
I am going to use QMK build if you dont mind.
I got a friend to build the OSX version. You are welcome to try it.
https://zealpc.net/blogs/news/programming-your-zephyr
There is that Zeal65.exe thing again! I cant use it in Apple computer. I dont have windows computer.
I am going to use QMK build if you dont mind.
Sorry, I thought I was replying to someone else.
I got a friend to build the OSX version. You are welcome to try it.
https://zealpc.net/blogs/news/programming-your-zephyr
There is that Zeal65.exe thing again! I cant use it in Apple computer. I dont have windows computer.
I am going to use QMK build if you dont mind.
Sorry, I thought I was replying to someone else.
I got a friend to build the OSX version. You are welcome to try it.
I tried using the OSX version and it seems to work. The only thing is when trying to use the function style mappings, i.e. LT(1,KC_CAPS) it yells at you about having a parenthesis. Any idea why it doesn't like that syntax?
LT\(1,KC_CAPS\)
waiting for R2 to start
does this https://docs.qmk.fm/#/feature_rgblight work for zephyr ?
I want to program some keys for RGB control.
The doc says I need this:
#define RGB_DI_PIN D7 // The pin the LED strip is connected to
#define RGBLED_NUM 14 // Number of LEDs in your strip
I flashed my zephyr today. I had to do "eeprom reset" because it was ignoring keymap changes.
https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/quantum/tool
I flashed default keymap from https://github.com/Wilba6582/qmk_firmware/tree/zeal60
make zeal65:default:dfu
It seems to have lost some LED effects. "Rainbow" effect is no longer there. For some reason two LEDs turned off permanently.
I flashed my zephyr today. I had to do "eeprom reset" because it was ignoring keymap changes.Make sure your definitions are set correctly for some reason Wilbas bundled setup for zeal65 doesn’t have 7u space bar set.
https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/quantum/tool
I flashed default keymap from https://github.com/Wilba6582/qmk_firmware/tree/zeal60
make zeal65:default:dfu
It seems to have lost some LED effects. "Rainbow" effect is no longer there. For some reason two LEDs turned off permanently.
I am not too worried about LED effects. QMK is more important for me, for example, I want to use macros.
Does all LEDs turn on for you? Can you post your QMK config on github? On my zephyr 3 LEDs are off: under UP key and both split backspace keys.
I think I need to bridge some contacts on PCB to turn on split backspace LEDs.
To turn on the stabilizer LEDs, simply bridge "JC16A", "JD5A", "JB8A", "JB4A", "JB4". If you're using HHKB layout split backspace, don't bridge "JB4".
I think Wilba's firmware flash tool has code that is not on github. Perhaps he forgot to push some code changes?
LED effects are not the same obviously. I am not sure why.
Will there more color options in future rounds?
The current ones feels kinda limiting. I want dark grey :(
Does anyone have experience with this board and Mill-Max sockets? Or could you tell me the diameter of the switch holes? And what about the stabilisers? Some people had issues with stabilised keys being lower with PCB mount stabs.
Anyways, I'm planning to apply those and get me a hot-swappable Zephyr, and I don't intend to screw up the PCB for a 600$ plus shipping and import taxes board.
Having used both mill-max and holtites i definitely recommend using holtites over mill-max sockets. The mill-max has a lip that will raise the switch a bit in comparison to pcb mount stabs like you say.
The Zeal65 PCB is mostly the same design as the Zeal60, and both are compatible with the hot swap sockets that Zeal stocks (aka. Holtite sockets).
Due to the ENIG (gold plated) pads, these sockets don't "stick" if inserted with a soldering iron (one method that's been demonstrated), like they do for HASL (solder tinned) pads. What I do is solder the pads first, then remove solder from the pad holes, before installing the sockets with a soldering iron. It's a little more work, but then you have a PCB that can have switches swapped without the sockets coming out.
Due to a few possible layout options, using Kailh switch sockets like I use on the M60-A isn't possible. While the bottom row is fixed to 1.5-1.5-7-1.5-1.5-1-1-1, there are split backspace and stepped caps lock options. Kailh switch sockets also aren't (very) compatible with putting a USB connector in between two switches, when the sockets are on the edge of the PCB (i.e. when switches are oriented with LEDs at the bottom).
Having used both mill-max and holtites i definitely recommend using holtites over mill-max sockets. The mill-max has a lip that will raise the switch a bit in comparison to pcb mount stabs like you say.
Hm, suspected as much. I still don't fully understand how the holtites work though. They are solderless, right? So how are they held in place?
Plus there was a post about them having problems of staying in place on the Zephyr PCB, somewhere.
Having used both mill-max and holtites i definitely recommend using holtites over mill-max sockets. The mill-max has a lip that will raise the switch a bit in comparison to pcb mount stabs like you say.
Hm, suspected as much. I still don't fully understand how the holtites work though. They are solderless, right? So how are they held in place?
Plus there was a post about them having problems of staying in place on the Zephyr PCB, somewhere.
I recommend pre-tinning the holes.
1. Add some solder and then remove it again using a solder-sucker or just some solder-wick. This leaves a thin layer of solder in the holes for the holtites to adhere to.
2. Push the holtites down into the holes with a heated iron which heats the layer of solder that was left from step one and secures the holtites.
Just make sure to not have a bunch of solder on the tip that will flow into the holtite and that you don't leave too much solder in the hole in step 1 as that will fill the legs of the holtite and prohibit them from expanding when pushing in the switch.
Does anyone have a spare PCB I could buy?
Does anyone have a spare PCB I could buy?
Zeal should have some in stock.
PCBs are sold out
New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.
New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.
Oh no, how terrible that would be if more people could own something.
New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.
Oh no, how terrible that would be if more people could own something.
You should not have ran Oblivion v2 as it ruined the value for those who bought first time. You must remember that they are some sort of collectors.
New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.:))
Stop the production plssss.New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.
Oh no, how terrible that would be if more people could own something.
You should not have ran Oblivion v2 as it ruined the value for those who bought first time. You must remember that they are some sort of collectors.
I agree, I chose not to buy Oblivion v2 in solidarity with those who bought first time. You must remember that they are some sort of collectors.
New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.
New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.
New round would ruin value for those who bought first time. You must remember that we are some sort of collectors.