What's a moggle?
What's a moggle?
A moogle kit is an adapter kit that complements keys from vintage keyboard so that they fit onto a modern keyboard with 1.25 units wide modifier keys, such as Windows keys.
A typical moogle kit contains modifiers for the bottom row and a space bar. It is common for them to also contain a caps lock key with a centered stem (as opposed to off-center stem) and a 2.75 wide right shift key, even though not all users may need them.
The original moogle kits were designed to allow the use of Cherry doubleshot ABS keys (harvested off a cheap keyboard in the Cherry G80 series) on a modern Filco Majestouch. Moogle kits have also been made Dolch and Wyse PCE.
The term "moogle kit" is named after the Geekhack user who first proposed it: Moogle Stiltzkin. A "Moogle" is a type of creature that appear in several games by Square Enix, such as the Final Fantasy series.[1]
The term "moogle kit" (MOOGLEWHITE and MOOGLEBLACK) had been first introduced by 7bit as order-IDs for the Round 3 group buy in early 2011.
What's a moggle?
Source: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Adapter_kit#Moogle_kitQuote from: deskthority wikiA moogle kit is an adapter kit that complements keys from vintage keyboard so that they fit onto a modern keyboard with 1.25 units wide modifier keys, such as Windows keys.
A typical moogle kit contains modifiers for the bottom row and a space bar. It is common for them to also contain a caps lock key with a centered stem (as opposed to off-center stem) and a 2.75 wide right shift key, even though not all users may need them.
The original moogle kits were designed to allow the use of Cherry doubleshot ABS keys (harvested off a cheap keyboard in the Cherry G80 series) on a modern Filco Majestouch. Moogle kits have also been made Dolch and Wyse PCE.
The term "moogle kit" is named after the Geekhack user who first proposed it: Moogle Stiltzkin. A "Moogle" is a type of creature that appear in several games by Square Enix, such as the Final Fantasy series.[1]
The term "moogle kit" (MOOGLEWHITE and MOOGLEBLACK) had been first introduced by 7bit as order-IDs for the Round 3 group buy in early 2011.
What's a moggle?
What's a moggle?
Source: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Adapter_kit#Moogle_kitQuote from: deskthority wikiA moogle kit is an adapter kit that complements keys from vintage keyboard so that they fit onto a modern keyboard with 1.25 units wide modifier keys, such as Windows keys.
A typical moogle kit contains modifiers for the bottom row and a space bar. It is common for them to also contain a caps lock key with a centered stem (as opposed to off-center stem) and a 2.75 wide right shift key, even though not all users may need them.
The original moogle kits were designed to allow the use of Cherry doubleshot ABS keys (harvested off a cheap keyboard in the Cherry G80 series) on a modern Filco Majestouch. Moogle kits have also been made Dolch and Wyse PCE.
The term "moogle kit" is named after the Geekhack user who first proposed it: Moogle Stiltzkin. A "Moogle" is a type of creature that appear in several games by Square Enix, such as the Final Fantasy series.[1]
The term "moogle kit" (MOOGLEWHITE and MOOGLEBLACK) had been first introduced by 7bit as order-IDs for the Round 3 group buy in early 2011.
I know what a moogle is but this thread is for a moggle :D
wtf, ISO enter but no ANSI?
wtf, ISO enter but no ANSI?
Maybe that's why its called a moggle and not a moogle.
Is the enter something usually needing to be sourced? The one I got from a G81 was the right size.
Thats true did not consider used.Is the enter something usually needing to be sourced? The one I got from a G81 was the right size.
enter key on used DS is usually the most shiny in my experience. Having a fresh one would be nice
it also needs space bars, 6.25 and 7x
Is this set going to be BoW?I was assuming WoB for some reason. Clarification would be good.
Meh, I wanted the MOGGLE kit not the Moogle kit, why tin, whyyyyyyy. :/
Meh, I wanted the MOGGLE kit not the Moogle kit, why tin, whyyyyyyy. :/
I think a mod did that.
Is this set going to be BoW?I can do both BoW and WoB.
Is this set going to be BoW?I can do both BoW and WoB.
can we do White on Blue :vVVHAT?
I finally noticed that this post was made in the early hours of April 1.
In for a WoB set. I suggest to add FN keys in 1u and 1.25u.
Just do a whole BoW set :thumb:
Meh, I wanted the MOGGLE kit not the Moogle kit, why tin, whyyyyyyy. :/
I think a mod did that.
I finally noticed that this post was made in the early hours of April 1.
Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.
Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.
So what exactly is a standard moogle? Different group buys have included various different keycaps, depending on who runs them and for which set they are offering compatibility.
Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.
So what exactly is a standard moogle? Different group buys have included various different keycaps, depending on who runs them and for which set they are offering compatibility.
It is very easy to see there is no such thing, like an standard moogle, but I think he/she is referring to the more common breed.
Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.
So what exactly is a standard moogle? Different group buys have included various different keycaps, depending on who runs them and for which set they are offering compatibility.
It is very easy to see there is no such thing, like an standard moogle, but I think he/she is referring to the more common breed.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN
That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.
Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.
Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.
I was thinking about this too. The whole point of a moogle is to adapt an older key set to use modern, widely available boards. Just throwing this out as an idea: I am wondering if it would have the best chance to meet MOQ if you strip it down to only the keys necessary to get a functional ANSI set. Think only the keys that you need to make a donor Cherry DS set work. Should include ANSI enter because some of the Cherry POS keyboards have DS keys but ISO style enter keys. Should also include shift keys because the Cherry 1800 has short right shift. And of course it should include a full touch caps lock because many Cherry used sets only come with stepped which most ANSI boards cannot handle. Then include a normal ANSI bottom row (1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar).
I realize this does not meet everyone's needs (including my own), but it will be cheaper, maybe cheap enough to gain enough popular support to meet 250 MOQ without people having to buy four sets each. And hopefully it won't take 6 months to get up to 250 orders either. Let's face it, reaching MOQ has been an issue because of the expense of GMK sets. Maybe to get to MOQ the set will need to be cheaper and more mainstream is all I am suggesting. My $0.02
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN
That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.
That's why there's a billion links before it saying read this first. Can you find me a proper picture of a Moogle and Tsangan then? I couldn't find one to put in that thread.
I was thinking about this too. The whole point of a moogle is to adapt an older key set to use modern, widely available boards. Just throwing this out as an idea: I am wondering if it would have the best chance to meet MOQ if you strip it down to only the keys necessary to get a functional ANSI set. Think only the keys that you need to make a donor Cherry DS set work. Should include ANSI enter because some of the Cherry POS keyboards have DS keys but ISO style enter keys. Should also include shift keys because the Cherry 1800 has short right shift. And of course it should include a full touch caps lock because many Cherry used sets only come with stepped which most ANSI boards cannot handle. Then include a normal ANSI bottom row (1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar).
I realize this does not meet everyone's needs (including my own), but it will be cheaper, maybe cheap enough to gain enough popular support to meet 250 MOQ without people having to buy four sets each. And hopefully it won't take 6 months to get up to 250 orders either. Let's face it, reaching MOQ has been an issue because of the expense of GMK sets. Maybe to get to MOQ the set will need to be cheaper and more mainstream is all I am suggesting. My $0.02
I think you basically hit what a moogle is, or at least how it started. I think this pic is very close. Don't think the backspace is necessary though. Not sure how the "\" is affected on ANSI sets with the iso enter.Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.
I was thinking about this too. The whole point of a moogle is to adapt an older key set to use modern, widely available boards. Just throwing this out as an idea: I am wondering if it would have the best chance to meet MOQ if you strip it down to only the keys necessary to get a functional ANSI set. Think only the keys that you need to make a donor Cherry DS set work. Should include ANSI enter because some of the Cherry POS keyboards have DS keys but ISO style enter keys. Should also include shift keys because the Cherry 1800 has short right shift. And of course it should include a full touch caps lock because many Cherry used sets only come with stepped which most ANSI boards cannot handle. Then include a normal ANSI bottom row (1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar).
I realize this does not meet everyone's needs (including my own), but it will be cheaper, maybe cheap enough to gain enough popular support to meet 250 MOQ without people having to buy four sets each. And hopefully it won't take 6 months to get up to 250 orders either. Let's face it, reaching MOQ has been an issue because of the expense of GMK sets. Maybe to get to MOQ the set will need to be cheaper and more mainstream is all I am suggesting. My $0.02
Still my vote is for a new black on white set.
Still my vote is for a new black on white set.
That may be a little expensive if you consider many of us already have full WoB sets but no bottom rows for ANSIs. All we want is a cost effective way to get those set to fit our current boards.
Still my vote is for a new black on white set.
That may be a little expensive if you consider many of us already have full WoB sets but no bottom rows for ANSIs. All we want is a cost effective way to get those set to fit our current boards.
Well I would rather spend $120 for a complete set than $50 on a bottom row.
But I understand where others may not be able to or may not want to just sharing my opinion.
I finally noticed that this post was made in the early hours of April 1.
This is going to take forever to sort out across all of the threads started on or around April Fool's Day.
Also, Interested in WoB 1.25 text mods plus 6.25 and 7.00 spacebars.
(And the Unicomp SSSK, announced on the 32nd hour of April 1st. Eight hours late is on-time for Unicomp.)
- Ron | samwisekoi
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN
That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.
That's why there's a billion links before it saying read this first. Can you find me a proper picture of a Moogle and Tsangan then? I couldn't find one to put in that thread.
Still my vote is for a new black on white set.
That may be a little expensive if you consider many of us already have full WoB sets but no bottom rows for ANSIs. All we want is a cost effective way to get those set to fit our current boards.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN
That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.
That's why there's a billion links before it saying read this first. Can you find me a proper picture of a Moogle and Tsangan then? I couldn't find one to put in that thread.
I'm not criticizing you! :D
Like esoomenona said, the definition of a moogle kit would depend on which set the moogle is aiming toward compatibility. The basic idea of a moogle is to make a vintage set compatible with a modern keyboard, but there are options which depend on the set, and what people are requesting, such as language support, etc.
Maybe separate little kits for people who want extra keys. I would like correct profile caps for Delete, End, and PgDn also.Yeah thats needed as well, doesn't bother me a ton but it would be nice to have the proper keys. But I would personally like to see this as cheap as possible though. Like others have said once the price gets to 50% or so of a full set we may as well just do complete sets.
Maybe separate little kits for people who want extra keys. I would like correct profile caps for Delete, End, and PgDn also.
How about splitting this into a "cheap cheap basic Moogle set" and an "I will help you out if you will help me out Pro set"I like this idea about separating it into two sets.
The cheap set could reach MOQ because it's cheap and unavoidable and everyone will want two of it, the Pro set could reach MOQ because the different needs of different people add up.
Cheap Cheap Basic Moogle:
- 1x center stemmed caps lock
- 1x Moogle bottom row of Filco-compatible 1,25 modifiers (2xCtrl, 2x Alt, 2x Win, 1x Menu)
- 1x 2,74u righthand Shift (for 1800)
- 1x 6,25u space bar
This basic set is enough to convert most BuW vintage sets to Filco tenkeyless standard (for 1800 sets you have to be willing to live with some wrong profiles in the nav cluster).
IWHYOIYWHMO Pro Set contains:
- Tsangan bottom row of 1,5/1.0 modifiers (2x 1.5u Ctrl, 2x 1.5u Alt, 1x 1u Win, 1x 1u Menu)
- 7u space bar
- center stemmed caps lock (so those who are only interested in Tsangan don't necessarily need the basic kit for just one cap)
- 1x ISO-to-ANSI set: 2.25u left Shift, 2.25u Enter, 1.5u backslash/verticalbar
- 1x ANSI-to-ISO set: 1.25u left Shift, 2x 1u blank (R3, R4), 1x ISO Return
- 1x 1800-to-Filco TKL set: 1 each of Delete, End, PgDn,
- 1x 1800-to-Filco-Full set: Numpad-<minus>, 2u-Numpad-<0>, 1ux2u-Numpad-<+>
How about splitting this into a "cheap cheap basic Moogle set" and an "I will help you out if you will help me out Pro set"
The cheap set could reach MOQ because it's cheap and unavoidable and everyone will want two of it, the Pro set could reach MOQ because the different needs of different people add up.
Cheap Cheap Basic Moogle:
- 1x center stemmed caps lock
- 1x Moogle bottom row of Filco-compatible 1,25 modifiers (2xCtrl, 2x Alt, 2x Win, 1x Menu)
- 1x 2,74u righthand Shift (for 1800)
- 1x 6,25u space bar
This basic set is enough to convert most BuW vintage sets to Filco tenkeyless standard (for 1800 sets you have to be willing to live with some wrong profiles in the nav cluster).
IWHYOIYWHMO Pro Set contains:
- Tsangan bottom row of 1,5/1.0 modifiers (2x 1.5u Ctrl, 2x 1.5u Alt, 1x 1u Win, 1x 1u Menu)
- 7u space bar
- center stemmed caps lock (so those who are only interested in Tsangan don't necessarily need the basic kit for just one cap)
- 1x ISO-to-ANSI set: 2.25u left Shift, 2.25u Enter, 1.5u backslash/verticalbar
- 1x ANSI-to-ISO set: 1.25u left Shift, 2x 1u blank (R3, R4), 1x ISO Return
- 1x 1800-to-Filco TKL set: 1 each of Delete, End, PgDn,
- 1x 1800-to-Filco-Full set: Numpad-<minus>, 2u-Numpad-<0>, 1ux2u-Numpad-<+>
@esoomenona: I don't understand what you mean. You don't think the basic kit has the most popular stuff? Or you disapprove of the idea of a basic set?
They are not spending a dollar more than the cheapest amount they can. They can either get the pro kit or not get it. :cool:
More like "I want what I want, but I'm not willing to help anyone else out when I don't need all those extra caps" Pro set.How about there is more in life than keyboards. Some of us only have so much cash to spend on non essentials like this. So a $50 moogle is kind of hard to swallow.
How about splitting this into a "cheap cheap basic Moogle set" and an "I will help you out if you will help me out Pro set"
The cheap set could reach MOQ because it's cheap and unavoidable and everyone will want two of it, the Pro set could reach MOQ because the different needs of different people add up.
Cheap Cheap Basic Moogle:
- 1x center stemmed caps lock
- 1x Moogle bottom row of Filco-compatible 1,25 modifiers (2xCtrl, 2x Alt, 2x Win, 1x Menu)
- 1x 2,74u righthand Shift (for 1800)
- 1x 6,25u space bar
This basic set is enough to convert most BuW vintage sets to Filco tenkeyless standard (for 1800 sets you have to be willing to live with some wrong profiles in the nav cluster).
IWHYOIYWHMO Pro Set contains:
- Tsangan bottom row of 1,5/1.0 modifiers (2x 1.5u Ctrl, 2x 1.5u Alt, 1x 1u Win, 1x 1u Menu)
- 7u space bar
- center stemmed caps lock (so those who are only interested in Tsangan don't necessarily need the basic kit for just one cap)
- 1x ISO-to-ANSI set: 2.25u left Shift, 2.25u Enter, 1.5u backslash/verticalbar
- 1x ANSI-to-ISO set: 1.25u left Shift, 2x 1u blank (R3, R4), 1x ISO Return
- 1x 1800-to-Filco TKL set: 1 each of Delete, End, PgDn,
- 1x 1800-to-Filco-Full set: Numpad-<minus>, 2u-Numpad-<0>, 1ux2u-Numpad-<+>
More like "I want what I want, but I'm not willing to help anyone else out when I don't need all those extra caps" Pro set.How about there is more in life than keyboards. Some of us only have so much cash to spend on non essentials like this. So a $50 moogle is kind of hard to swallow.
Which is why you guys will continue to go without these caps. Plain and simple.
Well, if that exact set that they want is popular enough to warrant an extra GB and reach MOQ alone then they are perfectly right!They are not spending a dollar more than the cheapest amount they can. They can either get the pro kit or not get it. :cool:
If it were only so simple. But that's not how they see it. You see, there are extra caps there that they don't want or need. And if those weren't there, then the price would be cheaper for them. Why should they spend more money to pay for caps they don't need?
Which is why you guys will continue to go without these caps. Plain and simple.
So we should all pay top dollar for the few guys that want every possibility under the sun? Seems odd that you would expect people to do that.
If there's a moq, you bet your ass that people will have to cooperate with a more fleshed-out set to appeal to more people, JUST to be able to have an opportunity to get GMK, let alone getting everything you want and nothing you don't.Can we do $25 tops on a basic moogle? I think at that price we should hit moq.
I don't think you can just put a limit on the cost. A moogle kit is only a moogle kit if it serves the purpose well. If it only supplies half the required keys it's just... well... pointless!
To be honest, there are so many incomplete BoW sets out there, that I feel this moogle kit will reach 250 orders with certainty. But it has to be well made and complete, not to reach moq but to make sense!
So the most important questions is: What incomplete/incompatible BoW keysets does people have right now? and what keyboards will it be used on?
Most needed keys for filling out the most common white/black sets people will have:
For Winkey 1800/7000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, 2.75 shift, row D profile delete/end/pg dn, 2 units vertical +, 2 units 0.
For MY 3000/8000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, fulltouch caps lock
For MX 8000: 2.25 enter, 1.5 \|, nav 6pack, cursors, function row, num lock/÷/×/-/+/numpad enter
Though... in the case of MX 8000 it's probably cheaper to source the function row and numpad keys needed from some other used set like a MY8000... in which case the 2.25 enter and 1.5 |\ key is taken care of as well. Possible same goes for some other keys in other cases as well.
It probably would be best to just have 1.25 mods, 1.5 mods, spacebars and full touch caps lock and keep it minimal. Certainly some other keys would be nice to have like Fn and 1x1 Win keys etc... but they aren't strictly necessary. Windowed keys would be a nice to have as they really don't exist in black but they all do need doubled up to keep the lower MOQ.
Most needed keys for filling out the most common white/black sets people will have:
For Winkey 1800/7000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, 2.75 shift, row D profile delete/end/pg dn, 2 units vertical +, 2 units 0.
For MY 3000/8000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, fulltouch caps lock
For MX 8000: 2.25 enter, 1.5 \|, nav 6pack, cursors, function row, num lock/÷/×/-/+/numpad enter
Though... in the case of MX 8000 it's probably cheaper to source the function row and numpad keys needed from some other used set like a MY8000... in which case the 2.25 enter and 1.5 |\ key is taken care of as well. Possible same goes for some other keys in other cases as well.
It probably would be best to just have 1.25 mods, 1.5 mods, spacebars and full touch caps lock and keep it minimal. Certainly some other keys would be nice to have like Fn and 1x1 Win keys etc... but they aren't strictly necessary. Windowed keys would be a nice to have as they really don't exist in black but they all do need doubled up to keep the lower MOQ.
You should listen to Ivan. He is one the most knowledgeable guys on cherry keyboards. Please take his advice.
basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)
should be around €30-33 WITHOUT blanks and windowed caps.basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)
Evo set: How much it would be?
should be around €30-33 WITHOUT blanks and windowed caps.basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)
Evo set: How much it would be?
basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)
Thoughts?
p.s. I like my ghetto mockups.
+1 and spacebarsbasic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)
Thoughts?
p.s. I like my ghetto mockups.
Your evo set needs the 1.5-unit backslash/pipe key, and take out everything that is in the base set. Then only do two options. Base set, and evo set.
+1 and spacebarsbasic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)
Thoughts?
p.s. I like my ghetto mockups.
Your evo set needs the 1.5-unit backslash/pipe key, and take out everything that is in the base set. Then only do two options. Base set, and evo set.
Interested in BoW set.Me too, beige moogle set with center caps please :p
With WoB, I understand these sets are pretty common from Flynn's GB last year:Show Image(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/fs/C-1-my-set.jpg)
With this or the other common WoB keyboards as a base, I think tinlong's set + spacebars do make a lot of sense.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0
I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.
He said 125-150, with 8-10 with missing keys. He never mentioned the condition.http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0
I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.
dey got 150, but presumably shiny
He said 125-150, with 8-10 with missing keys. He never mentioned the condition.http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0
I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.
dey got 150, but presumably shiny
Seriously - it will be great if we can merge the GB.
No.He said 125-150, with 8-10 with missing keys. He never mentioned the condition.http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0
I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.
dey got 150, but presumably shiny
Seriously - it will be great if we can merge the GB.
tinnie u still in HK? Boards are in USA, we could definitely merge the GBs. Im sure the ones in the bags were backups that were never used and those 19 were all he had, so I think the ones he still has are shiny like in the other auction.
Did he ever respond to you?
GB thread should be online soon. Both black on beige and white on black. ^^
GB thread should be online soon. Both black on beige and white on black. ^^
^waiting mod to approve my thread. So it might takes some time.