Post by: Bobatype on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:17:48
(https://i.imgur.com/q3zJ2OT.png)
“Welcome to Aperture, you're here because we want the best, and you're it.
Nope.
Couldn't keep a straight face.”
Nope.
Couldn't keep a straight face.”
【PROTOCOLS】
This is a tribute to one of my favourite games of all time; one in which unique gameplay physics, and witty writing combine in a fun and memorable experience. And as such it holds significant personal meaning to me.
Featuring unexpected laughs as you try not to die, whilst using abstract thinking to solve well-crafted puzzles, this is a must play game brimming with originality and dark humour.
This is my first solo run at a keycap design project, so feel free to be gentle... or rough. I appreciate all feedback to help with kitting decisions.
I originally wanted to utilise the common colour combination trope of orange and blue, but landed on this fun concept, that would really shine on ergo and split keyboard layouts.
Please note that this set was originally conceived in Cherry profile, but I have felt KAT kitting was better at supporting obscurer kits where the duality of colour is more natural.
Furthermore, PBT is more affordable for cool novelties, and there's a plethora of GMK sets already.
Do note that I have also emailed Valve to see if official licensing/permission is possible, so we'll see if they respond and if I need to revise my novelties or not.
Featuring unexpected laughs as you try not to die, whilst using abstract thinking to solve well-crafted puzzles, this is a must play game brimming with originality and dark humour.
This is my first solo run at a keycap design project, so feel free to be gentle... or rough. I appreciate all feedback to help with kitting decisions.
I originally wanted to utilise the common colour combination trope of orange and blue, but landed on this fun concept, that would really shine on ergo and split keyboard layouts.
Please note that this set was originally conceived in Cherry profile, but I have felt KAT kitting was better at supporting obscurer kits where the duality of colour is more natural.
Furthermore, PBT is more affordable for cool novelties, and there's a plethora of GMK sets already.
Do note that I have also emailed Valve to see if official licensing/permission is possible, so we'll see if they respond and if I need to revise my novelties or not.
【TEST SIMULATIONS】
(https://i.imgur.com/K0raHKt.jpg)
TKC1800 (The Key Company)
(https://i.imgur.com/UUbtV5q.jpg)
Nemui (Bachoo)
(https://i.imgur.com/4TZa7Be.jpg)
The Paragon (Artemis Design)
(https://i.imgur.com/4qceji1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pPaVWUS.jpg)
U80-A (Rama Works)
(https://i.imgur.com/zpck0NV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5tn94XO.jpg)
SP-111 (BlindAssassin111
Older Renders
(https://i.imgur.com/x30Y52c.jpg)
The Mark (Boardsource)
(https://i.imgur.com/wlJTB08.png)
Paragon (Artemis Design Studio)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZIBVgwa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/v1l2AC0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6bfGZnf.png)
LANGUAGE <Alphas>
“We just got the results from that last test: You are a horrible person. That's what it says. A horrible person.
We weren't even testing for that."
Latin (Lab Edition) - “Lab”
(https://i.imgur.com/nlLjcUU.png)
Latin (Control Group Edition) - “Control”
(https://i.imgur.com/SnueZjz.png)
Latin (Gel Edition) - “Gel” [AKA Tidepod Edition]
(https://i.imgur.com/Hcq4mtQ.png)
MODULES <Modifiers 65%->100%>
Icons (Lab) - “Caution Signs”
Text (Lab) - “Science”
Icon (Gel) - "Repulsion"
Text (Gel) - "Propulsion"
CALCULATIONS <Numpad>
0-9 (Lab Edition) - “Velocity”
(https://i.imgur.com/BnDVQZF.png)
0-9 (Gel Edition) - “Physics”
(https://i.imgur.com/InT2EId.png)
SPAAAAAAACCEEEEE (http://music.portal2sounds.com/298)!<Spacebar>
(https://i.imgur.com/XwtG7Jw.png)
(Gel Edition) - “Blorange”
(https://i.imgur.com/GtcgDfQ.png)
- WIP - Gradient will be be reworked/changed given feedback -
EXPERIMENTS
<40s, Orthos, Ergos, Iso etc.>
“You might have a minor case of serious brain damage”
※ Gravity <40s>
Icon (Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/ljCOYWh.png)
Icon (Gel)
(https://i.imgur.com/NMgt5x9.png)
※ Chamberlock <Ortholinear>
Icon (Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/rf6gQh7.png)
Icon (Gel)
(https://i.imgur.com/uzPQKTk.png)
※ Asbestos <Ergodox>
Icon (Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/asZnfcg.png)
Icon (Gel) - WIP
※ Turrets <Mac>
Icon
(https://i.imgur.com/GZ7E8Se.png)
※ PotatOS <Iso>
(Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/AC0V6tN.png)
*note currently incorrect: R2 alphas should be blue legends.
(Control)
(https://i.imgur.com/jheqepF.png)
OUTLIERS
<Nordic, Spanish, German, Russian, Colemak>
Alice Clone. Renders by Pseudoalpaca of KAT Space Dust (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107942.0)
【TEST CHAMBERS】
CAKE <Novelties>
- Novelties are WIP -
(https://i.imgur.com/yIjWUOt.png)
- Novelties are WIP -
(https://i.imgur.com/yIjWUOt.png)
LANGUAGE <Alphas>
“We just got the results from that last test: You are a horrible person. That's what it says. A horrible person.
We weren't even testing for that."
Latin (Lab Edition) - “Lab”
(https://i.imgur.com/nlLjcUU.png)
Latin (Control Group Edition) - “Control”
(https://i.imgur.com/SnueZjz.png)
Latin (Gel Edition) - “Gel” [AKA Tidepod Edition]
(https://i.imgur.com/Hcq4mtQ.png)
MODULES <Modifiers 65%->100%>
"I've thought about our dilemma, and I came up with a solution that I honestly think works out well for one of both of us."
Icons (Lab) - “Caution Signs”
(https://i.imgur.com/X0Shs1F.png)
Text (Lab) - “Science”
(https://i.imgur.com/Owm2e0y.png)
Icon (Gel) - "Repulsion"
(https://i.imgur.com/SvryzZe.png)
Text (Gel) - "Propulsion"
(https://i.imgur.com/rAeTA5c.png)
*note Iso enters will be added to their respective mod kitsCALCULATIONS <Numpad>
"I punched those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face."
0-9 (Lab Edition) - “Velocity”
(https://i.imgur.com/BnDVQZF.png)
0-9 (Gel Edition) - “Physics”
(https://i.imgur.com/InT2EId.png)
SPAAAAAAACCEEEEE (http://music.portal2sounds.com/298)!<Spacebar>
" Ohmygodohmygodohmygod! I'm in space!"
(Lab Edition) - “White”(https://i.imgur.com/XwtG7Jw.png)
(Gel Edition) - “Blorange”
(https://i.imgur.com/GtcgDfQ.png)
- WIP - Gradient will be be reworked/changed given feedback -
EXPERIMENTS
<40s, Orthos, Ergos, Iso etc.>
“You might have a minor case of serious brain damage”
※ Gravity <40s>
Icon (Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/ljCOYWh.png)
Icon (Gel)
(https://i.imgur.com/NMgt5x9.png)
※ Chamberlock <Ortholinear>
Icon (Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/rf6gQh7.png)
Icon (Gel)
(https://i.imgur.com/uzPQKTk.png)
※ Asbestos <Ergodox>
Icon (Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/asZnfcg.png)
Icon (Gel) - WIP
※ Turrets <Mac>
Icon
(https://i.imgur.com/GZ7E8Se.png)
More
//Text option may be culled depending on interest/vendor limits on number of kits
Text
(https://i.imgur.com/TpvXtEQ.png)
Text
(https://i.imgur.com/TpvXtEQ.png)
※ PotatOS <Iso>
(Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/AC0V6tN.png)
*note currently incorrect: R2 alphas should be blue legends.
(Control)
(https://i.imgur.com/jheqepF.png)
OUTLIERS
<Nordic, Spanish, German, Russian, Colemak>
More
//This section will shift depending on polls as I am aiming to keep total number of kits <30
※ Neurotoxin <Nordic>
(Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/0bf32qm.png)
(Control)
(https://i.imgur.com/4viCvD9.png)
※ Slow Clap <Spanish>
WIP
※ Lab Rat <German>
WIP
※ <Colevrak+>
(Lab) - WIP - Requires revision -
(https://i.imgur.com/nrDfr1o.png)
(Control) - WIP -
(https://i.imgur.com/ZEMzwK0.png)
※ Neurotoxin <Nordic>
(Lab)
(https://i.imgur.com/0bf32qm.png)
(Control)
(https://i.imgur.com/4viCvD9.png)
※ Slow Clap <Spanish>
WIP
※ Lab Rat <German>
WIP
※ <Colevrak+>
(Lab) - WIP - Requires revision -
(https://i.imgur.com/nrDfr1o.png)
(Control) - WIP -
(https://i.imgur.com/ZEMzwK0.png)
【SCHEMATICS】
<Desk Mats>
“Hmm this plate must have not been calibrated to someone of your... Generousness... I'll add a few zeroes to the maximum weight. You look great by the way, very healthy. Try it now”
(https://i.imgur.com/tUGi0yY.png)
- Note these are still mainly concepts, and subject to further refinement -
【CO-OP】
<Collabs>
ARTISANS
- TBD -
CABLES
- TBD -
- TBD -
CABLES
- TBD -
【UNRICHMENT CENTERS】
<Vendors>
“In dangerous testing environments, the Enrichment Center promises to always provide useful advice. For instance, the floor here will kill you. Try to avoid it.”
[Unconfirmed; for smaller regions there are few vendor options and I have already made contact with them]
NA: - TBD -
CA: - TBD -
OCE: - TBD - (Likely DailyClack)
EU: - TBD -
ASIA: - TBD - (Likely Zfrontier)
SEA: - TBD -
South Korea - TBD - (Likely Swagkeys)
SA (South America) - TBD - (Likely Fancycustoms)
Non EU (Ukraine, Russia, Belarus) - TBD - (Likely Funkeys)
NA: - TBD -
CA: - TBD -
OCE: - TBD - (Likely DailyClack)
EU: - TBD -
ASIA: - TBD - (Likely Zfrontier)
SEA: - TBD -
South Korea - TBD - (Likely Swagkeys)
SA (South America) - TBD - (Likely Fancycustoms)
Non EU (Ukraine, Russia, Belarus) - TBD - (Likely Funkeys)
【COLOURS】
“Last poor son of a gun got blue paint. Broke every bone in his body. Tragic. But informative.”
This set originally was conceived as GMK, using their stock colours V2 & N5 to minimise costs; since moving to KAT I have decided to shift to pantones 2727 C and 1575 C
【DATA】
“I have your brain scanned & permanently backed up in case something terrible happens to you. Don't believe me? Here. I'll put you on. 'Helloooo'. That's you. That's how dumb you sound.”
0 FEEDBACK FORM LINK (https://forms.gle/Tmd6Vpy3rjRhEkPaA) 0
【COMMS】
“We've both said a lot of things that you're going to regret.”
Get the jump on earlier updates:
0 Discord Server: Bobas Designs (https://discord.gg/mJwgjGPYyx) 0
【COMPANION³】
<Thanks>
“Thank you - I can't believe I'm thanking these people - for staggering your way through Aperture Science's Propulsion Gel testing. You've made some real contributions to society for a change, and for that, humanity is grateful." Special thanks to the following test subjects:
More
※ Misono for assistance with Illustrator and kitting
※ Pseudoalpaca for assistance with renders (the non-concept ones) - co-designer of KAT Space Dust - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107942.0
※ Konstantin and NoPunin10ded - I gleaned lots of kitting information indirectly and directly from their contributions to other sets. All mistakes here are mine however as I tried to gung-ho some of these KAT kits by myself (and now need to clean up).
※ Icons used for modifiers: OneCreativeMind, JSaintS, Konstantin
※ The mad geniuses behind one of my favourite games
※ Pseudoalpaca for assistance with renders (the non-concept ones) - co-designer of KAT Space Dust - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107942.0
※ Konstantin and NoPunin10ded - I gleaned lots of kitting information indirectly and directly from their contributions to other sets. All mistakes here are mine however as I tried to gung-ho some of these KAT kits by myself (and now need to clean up).
※ Icons used for modifiers: OneCreativeMind, JSaintS, Konstantin
※ The mad geniuses behind one of my favourite games
【SUPPORT】
“Most people emerge from suspension terribly undernourished. I want to congratulate you on beating the odds and somehow managing to pack on a few pounds.”
Profile signature:
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=110077.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/q3zJ2OT.png[/img][/url](https://i.imgur.com/q3zJ2OT.png)
【CONCLUSION】
“Congratulations. The test is now over. All Aperture technologies remain safely operational up to 4000 degrees Kelvin. Rest assured, there is absolutely no chance of a dangerous equipment malfunction prior to your victory candescence. Thank you for participating in this Aperture Science computer-aided enrichment activity. Goodbye.” (https://i.imgur.com/BuVijDR.png)
<3 BobaSweatandTears
"He's the product of the greatest minds of a generation working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron that ever lived."
Disclaimer: all witty quotes belong to original reference source material
Post by: Avocadough on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:22:16
Post by: Agilr on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:23:27
Post by: Slayer77 on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:28:17
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Post by: dandruff on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:30:12
Best of luck to both of you :|
Post by: SMOKEY on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:30:31
as I told you, for me, there will be no drama. At all.
There was nothing "rushed out".
I was working on this set off and on since April 2020.
The earliest file I found was from February 2020...
So, there will be no drama to see here if it comes to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/svmmugx.png)
Post by: Xonuss on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:34:01
Is this unfortunate timing, or was this rushed out?I think it's a bit of both. I don't think this entire thing was prepared in the 1 hour and 20 minutes since GMK Gateway was published, but some of the things here seems rushed, such as GMK renders and spacebar gradients. Unfortunate timing none the less.
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Post by: Slayer77 on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:35:48
Yup, I was never claiming he copied it, both were working on the same concept, it's a bit unfortunate for both parties tbh :/Is this unfortunate timing, or was this rushed out?I think it's a bit of both. I don't think this entire thing was prepared in the 1 hour and 20 minutes since GMK Gateway was published, but some of the things here seems rushed, such as GMK renders and spacebar gradients. Unfortunate timing none the less.
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Post by: Xonuss on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:37:50
Yeah, I honestly think it's fine. Some prefer GMK, some prefer KAT, now there is something for everyone. Good luck with IC regardless!Yup, I was never claiming he copied it, both were working on the same concept, it's a bit unfortunate for both parties tbh :/Is this unfortunate timing, or was this rushed out?I think it's a bit of both. I don't think this entire thing was prepared in the 1 hour and 20 minutes since GMK Gateway was published, but some of the things here seems rushed, such as GMK renders and spacebar gradients. Unfortunate timing none the less.
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Post by: SMOKEY on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:40:10
Yeah, I honestly think it's fine. Some prefer GMK, some prefer KAT, now there is something for everyone. Good luck with IC regardless!
That's the right mindset!
GLWIC Boba!
Post by: VXQN on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:56:31
It's hardly an original idea (not meant as an insult) and I like the idea of being able to choose a profile!
Personally I love the variety of kits on offer here. Very hard to choose what I would go for. I will say that it looks like the coloured ISO kit needs some work as all keys are blue, when some should be orange.
Post by: HungHingDaiLo on Tue, 08 December 2020, 05:56:50
Good luck with IC! Can't wait for actual KAT renders (you might need to prioritise this ASAP).
Post by: Bobatype on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:02:22
Please note that I did post a feedback post in another subforum yesterday, however it didn't garner much attention: (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=110050.msg2988846#msg2988846).
Plus I posted a render on reddit, prior to Smokey's IC coming out today (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/k8pd4d/now_youre_thinking_with_portals/)
I wish I could do novelties, kitting, deskmats and renders in the space of an hour a half. This obviously has taken me a fair bit of time to get to its current stage. I was mainly touching up kitting, and waiting for renders to arrive (soonTM).
I'm not going to deny rushing this IC out a day or two earlier than I wanted. Ideally, I should have more KAT renders prior to posting this (the ETA for delivery was in the next 48hours), but the longer I wait to post 'IC" after Smokey's IC, the more the unintended consequence of me being called a copycat ensues.
So I thought it would be interesting to post mine at around the same time so we can fairly let the community have a look at both, even if it's not deemed at today's Geekhack standards of a 'final draft' for IC.
Smokey and I talked earlier this week and we've kissed and made up.
**** happens, life goes on, and yeah, it's kinda funny and appropriate that there's 2 versions of the same theme given the duality of Portal. Unfortunately this isn't co-op, so we're going to run our sets independently.
Post by: hkiri on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:05:19
Feels like both sets were rushed for the sake of claiming an idea
This 100%.
Post by: Bobatype on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:12:29
KAT >GMK (May or may not be biased. And a hypocrite, cause I'm typing on GMK Olivia atm haha)Yeah, I honestly think it's fine. Some prefer GMK, some prefer KAT, now there is something for everyone. Good luck with IC regardless!Yup, I was never claiming he copied it, both were working on the same concept, it's a bit unfortunate for both parties tbh :/Is this unfortunate timing, or was this rushed out?I think it's a bit of both. I don't think this entire thing was prepared in the 1 hour and 20 minutes since GMK Gateway was published, but some of the things here seems rushed, such as GMK renders and spacebar gradients. Unfortunate timing none the less.
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Thanks Smokey. It's kinda fun playing spot the difference between both our decisions with design of this set.Yeah, I honestly think it's fine. Some prefer GMK, some prefer KAT, now there is something for everyone. Good luck with IC regardless!
That's the right mindset!
GLWIC Boba!
Is this unfortunate timing, or was this rushed out?Yes
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Thanks <3Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/FcK2NXN.jpg)
Best of luck to both of you :|
Why not both?Por que no los dos? I agree, hopefully we can hold hands. Each profile has their own strengths.
It's hardly an original idea (not meant as an insult) and I like the idea of being able to choose a profile!
Personally I love the variety of kits on offer here. Very hard to choose what I would go for. I will say that it looks like the coloured ISO kit needs some work as all keys are blue, when some should be orange.
Thanks for the heads up on ISO errors! I will correct this.
The vehicle still reminds me of a cockroach.Thanks! Those renders are a priority. I have been requesting (begging) and hiring over the last 48 hours haha. Good luck with IC too, GMK Maestro is gonna be a classic.
Good luck with IC! Can't wait for actual KAT renders (you might need to prioritise this ASAP).
Post by: kapowaz on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:13:24
Post by: kk73715 on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:14:10
Post by: kapowaz on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:17:38
Post by: Bobatype on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:27:42
200% actually according to my calculations.Feels like both sets were rushed for the sake of claiming an idea
This 100%.
Both sets have good ideas, and there are things I like about some that I prefer from the other. Here’s a wild idea though: rather than compete with one another, how about you join forces and come up with the ultimate Portal-inspired keycap set together?How dare you like some features of that competing set over mine? No I think there are different elements we each did better. Anyways, Smokey and I will see how things play out.
One other comment: given that this is dyesub, what about using FF DIN Bold (https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fontfont/ff-din/) as the typeface for legends?Cheers, I'll take a look at that typeface and see if it's superior to the current selection which is also sharp/clean in style as well.
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:51:46
Post by: harlekein on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:52:32
In KAT however, this is perfect!
Post by: harlekein on Tue, 08 December 2020, 06:57:09
Both sets have good ideas, and there are things I like about some that I prefer from the other. Here’s a wild idea though: rather than compete with one another, how about you join forces and come up with the ultimate Portal-inspired keycap set together?As long as it's KAT...
It could be a good idea to work together for matching cables, artisans, deskmats, etc. But just leave KAT/GMK separate.
Post by: kapowaz on Tue, 08 December 2020, 07:04:37
Quote
Cheers, I'll take a look at that typeface and see if it's superior to the current selection which is also sharp/clean in style as well.
For sure, it’ll be down to taste somewhat, but in case you weren’t already familiar with it, FF Din is the typeface used for the Portal logo, as well as some of the HUD UI in Half-Life 2. The name DIN itself comes from it being a German industrial standard.
Post by: Bobatype on Tue, 08 December 2020, 07:10:52
It’s like the keycap equivalent of Deep Impact versus Armageddon.Ah yes the twin film phenomenon. Funny enough 1998 was also when Antz vs Bug's life also came out too.
Considering I use a split ortholinear keyboard with Colemak, there's not even a remote chance I would have gotten GMK Gateway.Awesome. I really think the split alpha concept shines best on the more exotic layouts, and exactly why I pivoted away from GMK early on.
In KAT however, this is perfect!
Post by: KingOfMemes on Tue, 08 December 2020, 08:34:45
Post by: psxndc on Tue, 08 December 2020, 08:36:13
And THANK YOU for putting in an R2 control and blanks in the ortho kit. Not everyone has TAB or ESC there.
Definitely in for KAT. No disrespect to the gmk IC, I just love KAT’s flexible kitting.
Post by: Zanhana on Tue, 08 December 2020, 08:44:27
Post by: Bobatype on Tue, 08 December 2020, 09:52:31
Much thanks for including colevrak in the orange/blue :thumb: :thumb:No problems. This set is socialist in nature.
That Colevrak+ kit... I know it’s a WIP, but it’s the most bonkers Colevrak kit I’ve seen. I *love* it. I could take it as-is once finished or as a standalone Colemak kit (please support DH and DHm if you split it off).Yes, it kind of broke my brain whilst I trying to make the Colevrak+ kit. When I do clean it up, I will endeavour to support DH and DHm too in its own kit.
And THANK YOU for putting in an R2 control and blanks in the ortho kit. Not everyone has TAB or ESC there.
Definitely in for KAT. No disrespect to the gmk IC, I just love KAT’s flexible kitting.
I could potentially like this very much but the colors in the kitting look significantly better than in the renders and I don't know which one you're aiming forThe renders are currently a bit overlit. I am using GMK's V2 for orange (see photos of GMK Carbon), N5 for blue (see photos of GMK Hydro), and CP for white (see photos of GMK Olivia)
Otherwise here's a good reference image that might help:
(https://i.imgur.com/mQ9ffjP.jpg)
Post by: treeleaf64 on Tue, 08 December 2020, 09:56:10
Post by: Ciantha on Tue, 08 December 2020, 10:07:58
If there's a problem with too many kits my suggestion would be cutting the black alphas for the less common languages/layouts and only keeping the orange/blue. My reasoning being that it should stay quite true to the portal theme whilst still giving minorities access to pretty keyboards (which is one of the draws of KAT/KAM).
Post by: Fredington on Tue, 08 December 2020, 11:31:52
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Tue, 08 December 2020, 11:59:39
I'm guessing the Nordic kit would come with an ISO enter and it's just missing from the pictures? Because having to buy the UK kit to get the ISO enter to actually use your Nordic kit seems a bit awkward.
If there's a problem with too many kits my suggestion would be cutting the black alphas for the less common languages/layouts and only keeping the orange/blue. My reasoning being that it should stay quite true to the portal theme whilst still giving minorities access to pretty keyboards (which is one of the draws of KAT/KAM).
I think the kitting with regard to ISO needs some adjustments. More likely the better route is to put each ISO enter key with its own mods kit rather than lumping four of them into a single kit.
Post by: psxndc on Tue, 08 December 2020, 12:28:19
That Colevrak+ kit... I know it’s a WIP, but it’s the most bonkers Colevrak kit I’ve seen. I *love* it. I could take it as-is once finished or as a standalone Colemak kit (please support DH and DHm if you split it off).Yes, it kind of broke my brain whilst I trying to make the Colevrak+ kit. When I do clean it up, I will endeavour to support DH and DHm too in its own kit.
Just to be clear, I wouldn’t offer a DH or DHm set as a standalone apart from a Colemak kit. I would just include the 6 keys needed for DH/DHm in the Colemak set, specifically:
K3 B,
K2 G, K, and M,
K1 D, and H.
Post by: harlekein on Tue, 08 December 2020, 15:04:16
Take a look at KAT Space Cadet and Napoleonitic for examples.
My preference is white background with colored legends.
Post by: The Cat Whisperer on Tue, 08 December 2020, 15:11:29
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 08 December 2020, 15:17:25
Post by: Naja on Tue, 08 December 2020, 17:53:15
Post by: EURA on Tue, 08 December 2020, 18:59:37
Best of luck to you both.
Post by: Dotnick on Tue, 08 December 2020, 19:01:21
I'm going to say the same thing on GMK Gateway's IC thread as well, but instead of both of you rushing out your IC's, [whether or not you didn't rush it, it feels incredibly rushed], I wish you both would have thought about really fleshing them out at the same time, and releasing them at the same time as well-thought out interest checks. I like and dislike things about both versions, and honestly this could have been a wonderful collaboration between two designers in the community. As much as you say you both say there are no hard feelings, just know that the way you both went about this turn of events, reflects somewhat poorly on both of you. You both let your pride get in the way of your IC's looking fully fleshed out and it just simply cannot be ignored.
Best of luck to you both.
+1
Post by: Ashen_21 on Tue, 08 December 2020, 19:14:10
Post by: v683 on Wed, 09 December 2020, 00:33:01
Post by: Bobatype on Wed, 09 December 2020, 01:15:31
wow what a clean design damn. love how the novelties interact with each other, with the orange portal leading to the blue.Thanks :). The concept itself lends to a lot of fun with novelty positioning. I immediately fell in love with the literal appropriateness of the escape novelty being someone escaping the room with a portal, and enter novelty key being someone entering a room via a portal. It just works!
I like it. Really like the colorful alpha kits too. Keep the font centered to make it more distinct from the GMK set. :thumb:Thank you! I think I will likely keep the font centered and utilise a font closer to the original game that kapowaz suggested
I mentioned this in the GMK thread, but dyesub offers a lot more options over doubleshot in terms of color usage and an opportunity here to differentiate this set from the GMK one. You have the right idea with the gradient caps but perhaps not the best execution there. Also, there's a lot of gray in the game that I think would make this set look better if incorporated.Yes, I am leveraging the ability of dyesub and KAT MOQ to offer more options for kitting and novelty designs. I agree the gradient caps aren't well-executed, and will be reworking them. The white transition is too awkward as is, either I'll make the majority of the spacebar white, with the colours gradient mainly on the peripheries and/or going with solid blocks of colours. I do agree the game has a lot more gray and black, but after multiple efforts trialling how to incorporate those colors more (i.e. making the mods or alphas or accents coloured), I couldn't get them to look as good as the clean white variants (see image album of concepts: https://imgur.com/a/FHa9QNI)
I'm going to say the same thing on GMK Gateway's IC thread as well, but instead of both of you rushing out your IC's, [whether or not you didn't rush it, it feels incredibly rushed], I wish you both would have thought about really fleshing them out at the same time, and releasing them at the same time as well-thought out interest checks. I like and dislike things about both versions, and honestly this could have been a wonderful collaboration between two designers in the community. As much as you say you both say there are no hard feelings, just know that the way you both went about this turn of events, reflects somewhat poorly on both of you. You both let your pride get in the way of your IC's looking fully fleshed out and it just simply cannot be ignored.Ouch, harsh words Eura, but you know I respect your views regardless. I'm not going to deny I rushed the IC out (*cough* renders in cherry), but the bulk of the work such as colours, kitting and novelties is definitely IC ready for feedback. Could this IC be more fleshed out? Yes. Does it really need to be prior to posting it? No. But that's an off-topic debate on what the GH community's rising expectations of what is considered "IC" ready. Rushing to IC is not the worst thing in the world, and it's not like I'm just posting a KLE render.
Best of luck to you both.
Not that it's a great excuse, but I felt that posting my IC at the same evening as Smokey's; versus a few days later whilst I wait renders would be better, since a) I wanted to pre-emptively avoid being called a copycat (we're both clear we did not steal the idea from the other); b) it's spicier to see reactions simultaneously. It's also clear that we have our differing visions/executions of the same inspiration, and seeing the community's reactions to both would be a more fair evaluation of the merits of each others ideas, versus it being cluttered of baseless accusations.
On a more important and interesting point, and to in regards to the actually purpose of IC, I'd love to know what you actually like and dislike about the design, and what to improve/change.
After further thought and reflection, I'm also not against a collaboration if Smokey is open to it, but that requires two to tango.
Thank you for pointing this out. Part of me forgot, and part of me was hoping everyone just gets the novelty kit, so that kinda covers that gap in kitting, but after speaking to nopunin10did (whose underrated KAT Napoleonic set I heavily derived kitting from for obscurer alphas from), I will be implementing ISO enter keys into the default mods kits.I'm guessing the Nordic kit would come with an ISO enter and it's just missing from the pictures? Because having to buy the UK kit to get the ISO enter to actually use your Nordic kit seems a bit awkward.
If there's a problem with too many kits my suggestion would be cutting the black alphas for the less common languages/layouts and only keeping the orange/blue. My reasoning being that it should stay quite true to the portal theme whilst still giving minorities access to pretty keyboards (which is one of the draws of KAT/KAM).
I think the kitting with regard to ISO needs some adjustments. More likely the better route is to put each ISO enter key with its own mods kit rather than lumping four of them into a single kit.
A standalone Colemak and separate Dvorak alpha kit would be preferable.Hi, I was definitely thinking along those lines would be a good idea. For kitting, I was mainly deriving off Konstantin's significant contributions to JSS's KAT Monochrome and Macsurfy's KAT Refined as a base, but as I ventured into obscure alphas, have started to appreciated Nopunin10did's alternative approach to those layouts.
Take a look at KAT Space Cadet and Napoleonitic for examples.
My preference is white background with colored legends.
Wait what I thought i just saw a GMK set like thisYes, we're twinsies. Fraternal twins.
I'll continue reworking Colemak/DH(DHm) in a way to ensure there is compatibility for as many as I can, whilst trying to not make kits unnecessarily expensive.That Colevrak+ kit... I know it’s a WIP, but it’s the most bonkers Colevrak kit I’ve seen. I *love* it. I could take it as-is once finished or as a standalone Colemak kit (please support DH and DHm if you split it off).Yes, it kind of broke my brain whilst I trying to make the Colevrak+ kit. When I do clean it up, I will endeavour to support DH and DHm too in its own kit.
Just to be clear, I wouldn’t offer a DH or DHm set as a standalone apart from a Colemak kit. I would just include the 6 keys needed for DH/DHm in the Colemak set, specifically:
K3 B,
K2 G, K, and M,
K1 D, and H.
Sad not to see French Kit, but this set reminds me so many things :pHi, I am polling the option, but given its lack of popularity based on the sales data of many KAT sets, unfortunately something has to give as the number of SKUs is already high. Text variants of ortho and 40s will be culled (icons will stay).
I love this set so much!Thank you. <3
I like it! Good luck with the alternative layouts, I'll be using Colemak Dhm myselfThanks. Will definitely cover Colemak Dhm!
Post by: harlekein on Wed, 09 December 2020, 02:19:01
https://forum.colemak.com/topic/2638-announcement-a-change-to-colemakdh/
Post by: Bobatype on Wed, 09 December 2020, 02:28:04
A bit of a sidetrack, but on the topic of Colemak: DH is DHm now. Meaning it was recognized that when using the DH mod, the DHm is the one to go to:I appreciate the clarification/education!
https://forum.colemak.com/topic/2638-announcement-a-change-to-colemakdh/
Learning the variety of obscure layouts has been really kind of cool, and reading some of the history and considerations behind the development of colevrak, colemak, and dvorak etc has been quite interesting.
Post by: horchata771 on Wed, 09 December 2020, 03:00:09
Post by: harlekein on Wed, 09 December 2020, 03:03:02
I appreciate the clarification/education!
Learning the variety of obscure layouts has been really kind of cool, and reading some of the history and considerations behind the development of colevrak, colemak, and dvorak etc has been quite interesting.
Another note: Colevrak isn't an alternative layout, its a mash-up of the words Colemak and Dvorak.
A Colevrak kit adds the keys so a QWERTY kit can be expanded to either Colemak or Dvorak.
I think the person who knows more about this topic than anyone else here would be dvorcol. (The one from the pretty GB graphs)
Post by: psxndc on Wed, 09 December 2020, 03:08:05
A bit of a sidetrack, but on the topic of Colemak: DH is DHm now. Meaning it was recognized that when using the DH mod, the DHm is the one to go to:
https://forum.colemak.com/topic/2638-announcement-a-change-to-colemakdh/
heresy!Maybe I’ll try DHm. My first name ends in K and last name starts with M so I’m going to use those key positions regardless.
Post by: atlanticise on Wed, 09 December 2020, 03:37:25
Post by: harlekein on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:02:13
As someone who has a million other ideas in the works, you could afford to let this one go...? I for one am very interested in seeing KAT Spacedust/Great Wave progress over this IC :)
No. But maybe I'll go into KAT Spacedust and tell the OP to abandon that project instead.
Or not, because that would be insane.
Post by: atlanticise on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:18:54
As someone who has a million other ideas in the works, you could afford to let this one go...? I for one am very interested in seeing KAT Spacedust/Great Wave progress over this IC :)
No. But maybe I'll go into KAT Spacedust and tell the OP to abandon that project instead.
Or not, because that would be insane.
Fair point, friend. Just... two incredibly similar sets. I don't know. I'd abandon it if I were Boba, but my mama did raise a quitter, and that's all I'd think about doing. Is this fight even worth it? Won't it be a better idea to shelve the idea until after Smokey's GB runs or something? Why the need for conflict, and why the rush? What would you suggest that would result in a better outcome?
Post by: EURA on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:23:29
Ouch, harsh words Eura, but you know I respect your views regardless. I'm not going to deny I rushed the IC out (*cough* renders in cherry), but the bulk of the work such as colours, kitting and novelties is definitely IC ready for feedback. Could this IC be more fleshed out? Yes. Does it really need to be prior to posting it? No. But that's an off-topic debate on what the GH community's rising expectations of what is considered "IC" ready. Rushing to IC is not the worst thing in the world, and it's not like I'm just posting a KLE render.
Not that it's a great excuse, but I felt that posting my IC at the same evening as Smokey's; versus a few days later whilst I wait renders would be better, since a) I wanted to pre-emptively avoid being called a copycat (we're both clear we did not steal the idea from the other); b) it's spicier to see reactions simultaneously. It's also clear that we have our differing visions/executions of the same inspiration, and seeing the community's reactions to both would be a more fair evaluation of the merits of each others ideas, versus it being cluttered of baseless accusations.
On a more important and interesting point, and to in regards to the actually purpose of IC, I'd love to know what you actually like and dislike about the design, and what to improve/change.
After further thought and reflection, I'm also not against a collaboration if Smokey is open to it, but that requires two to tango.
I absolutely adore the novelties, specifically the arrow cluster. I think you could actually narrow down on some of the novs, since the kit is pretty big. I like the colors and how vibrant they are on the renders, but I would want to see them color corrected, since I know that the V2 is much darker IRL. I prefer the lighter orange, almost tangerine, that we see, and would be more interested in that than V2, but I know that would have to be a custom color. CP is also not as nearly as white in reality as well, and if you wanted to achieve a starker white like in the renders, I would personally have gone with WS1 or WS2 [the cooler white].
I think your mats are a bit uninteresting and feel a little bland; the concepts are okay, but the compositions of them could use some work.
If you want a more in-depth critique, you know where to find me.
Post by: EURA on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:23:54
Ouch, harsh words Eura, but you know I respect your views regardless. I'm not going to deny I rushed the IC out (*cough* renders in cherry), but the bulk of the work such as colours, kitting and novelties is definitely IC ready for feedback. Could this IC be more fleshed out? Yes. Does it really need to be prior to posting it? No. But that's an off-topic debate on what the GH community's rising expectations of what is considered "IC" ready. Rushing to IC is not the worst thing in the world, and it's not like I'm just posting a KLE render.
Not that it's a great excuse, but I felt that posting my IC at the same evening as Smokey's; versus a few days later whilst I wait renders would be better, since a) I wanted to pre-emptively avoid being called a copycat (we're both clear we did not steal the idea from the other); b) it's spicier to see reactions simultaneously. It's also clear that we have our differing visions/executions of the same inspiration, and seeing the community's reactions to both would be a more fair evaluation of the merits of each others ideas, versus it being cluttered of baseless accusations.
On a more important and interesting point, and to in regards to the actually purpose of IC, I'd love to know what you actually like and dislike about the design, and what to improve/change.
After further thought and reflection, I'm also not against a collaboration if Smokey is open to it, but that requires two to tango.
I absolutely adore the novelties, specifically the arrow cluster. I think you could actually narrow down on some of the novs, since the kit is pretty big. I like the colors and how vibrant they are on the renders, but I would want to see them color corrected, since I know that the V2 is much darker IRL. I prefer the lighter orange, almost tangerine, that we see, and would be more interested in that than V2, but I know that would have to be a custom color. CP is also not as nearly as white in reality as well, and if you wanted to achieve a starker white like in the renders, I would personally have gone with WS1 or WS2 [the cooler white].
I think your mats are a bit uninteresting and feel a little bland; the concepts are okay, but the compositions of them could use some work.
If you want a more in-depth critique, you know where to find me.
Post by: Bobatype on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:36:41
Two ICs of the same theme is a whole lot more unfortunate than two ICs of differing themes which happen to be very similar in colourway - at least in that case, you'll be appealing to different people. Not sure how you want to run this - is it a secret Cold War race to secure a GB slot? It's a beautiful idea but the obvious tension makes me feel very yikesy. Judging initial reactions on opposing threads may be entertaining for you now, but I don't see any way this will end amicably for either party; it may just end up making both of you look bad to the community, which I'm sure you don't want. As someone who has a million other ideas in the works, you could afford to let this one go...? I for one am very interested in seeing KAT Spacedust/Great Wave progress over this IC :)
No. But maybe I'll go into KAT Spacedust and tell the OP to abandon that project instead.
Or not, because that would be insane.
Fair point, friend. Just... two incredibly similar sets. I don't know. I'd abandon it if I were Boba, but my mama did raise a quitter, and that's all I'd think about doing. Is this fight even worth it? Won't it be a better idea to shelve the idea until after Smokey's GB runs or something? Why the need for conflict, and why the rush? What would you suggest that would result in a better outcome?
It's all good, I know atlanticise is just trying to make peace.
It's not a secret cold war race. I'm not rushing to GB until I'm happy with kitting. Although kitting is more expansive due to Keyreative MOQ system, the split alpha colours has meant it's been a very labor intensive process making me much more liable to errors, as I can't just mindlessly copy existing templates. I also really don't want to ruin the opportunity to do this the best I can for those with less popular layouts. (thanks for all the kitting feedback people!).
Note that I have also sent a message to Smokey offering to to co-op and partner up as co-designers; uniting ideas, and running the concept in one profile first, then the other down the line; but it is ultimately up to him if he wishes to do so. I don't hold anything against him if he declines.
Note, I am definitely still working on those other KAT projects (note that I'm not the sole runner of those sets), and progress is being made behind the scenes despite their lack of active GH updates.
I'm not going to let this go because: I personally prefer white background mods variation which Smokey's version doesn't cover; I think a PBT option would be nice; you can mix and match what you want with the kitting; and I really don't want users of orthos/40s/ergos and other obscure layouts being left out of the fun on a concept where the split alphas shine best.
However I am happy to wait a while if needed, if the Smokey rushes out to GB first, so I don't harm chances of reaching MOQ.
It'd be unfortunate for fans of KAT, and/or obscure layouts to wait, but c'est la vie in the mk community. Good things take time to cook anyways.
Post by: harlekein on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:38:11
Fair point, friend. Just... two incredibly similar sets. I don't know. I'd abandon it if I were Boba, but my mama did raise a quitter, and that's all I'd think about doing. Is this fight even worth it? Won't it be a better idea to shelve the idea until after Smokey's GB runs or something? Why the need for conflict, and why the rush? What would you suggest that would result in a better outcome?What makes you say the GMK version should run and the KAT version shouldn't?
You see, I have no interest in GMK due to their MOQ system resulting in only catering to 60%+ QWERTY. KAT however is much more versatile. And honestly, even if the kitting worked the same, I'd still prefer KAT.
Nothing you say will make me want to buy the GMK kit, while this offering in KAT is much more interesting to me.
It seems you are more worried about KAT projects you don't like are taking up the queue space for KAT projects you do like.
Seeing you have no dog in this fight, it makes me wonder why you are telling OP to abandon his project? That's not what an IC is for, and frankly, it's egoistic and rude.
Post by: atlanticise on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:42:06
Quote
I'm not going to let this go because: I personally prefer white background mods variation which Smokey's version doesn't cover; I think a PBT option would be nice; you can mix and match what you want with the kitting; and I really don't want users of orthos/40s/ergos and other obscure layouts being left out of the fun on a concept where the split alphas shine best.
However I am happy to wait a while if needed, if the Smokey rushes out to GB first, so I don't harm chances of reaching MOQ.
This is very well said! I'd feel more inclined to wait for your set myself, for all of the above reasons, and it's good to know that while the INITIAL IC was rushed out to kind of prove that the idea wasn't copied, you'll still put a lot of work into finalising everything. That you're considering kitting very carefully, and including various colour options as well, really helps in differentiating your set.
I would second Eura's opinion on the colours. You're not going GMK so using stock GMK colours seems redundant to me, and I much prefer the brighter leaning on neon colours in the renders than actual V2 and N5. WS2 would look hella clean too.
Post by: atlanticise on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:52:08
Fair point, friend. Just... two incredibly similar sets. I don't know. I'd abandon it if I were Boba, but my mama did raise a quitter, and that's all I'd think about doing. Is this fight even worth it? Won't it be a better idea to shelve the idea until after Smokey's GB runs or something? Why the need for conflict, and why the rush? What would you suggest that would result in a better outcome?What makes you say the GMK version should run and the KAT version shouldn't?
You see, I have no interest in GMK due to their MOQ system resulting in only catering to 60%+ QWERTY. KAT however is much more versatile. And honestly, even if the kitting worked the same, I'd still prefer KAT.
Nothing you say will make me want to buy the GMK kit, while this offering in KAT is much more interesting to me.
It seems you are more worried about KAT projects you don't like are taking up the queue space for KAT projects you do like.
Seeing you have no dog in this fight, it makes me wonder why you are telling OP to abandon his project? That's not what an IC is for, and frankly, it's egoistic and rude.
Hello harlekein, I really appreciate that you're standing up for Boba as you should. But I do agree with you on everything - I dislike GMK kitting and MOQ system, I prefer KAT profile, etc etc. I'm not trying to tell Boba that he's wrong or his set sucks. I love this set. I'm trying to ask him if he's sure he wants to pursue this, and as you can see, he's already given a pretty solid answer.
On hindsight I do realise that my comment may appear egoistic and rude. In my defense, I have often had conversations with Boba on Discord so it was done in a friend-to-friend kind of way, I wasn't attacking a random stranger like how you may perceive. I was concerned about this blowing out of proportion and harming him, because this community is not nice when there's drama.
Please know that I am not here to fight you or anybody. I didn't even think about queue space, who even thinks of that? I was encouraging him to focus on projects that he's already involved in, because if there is backlash and he ends up not being able to handle it, at least he has that and the support of many people - including me. I'm sorry reading my post rubbed off wrong on you. Boba knows where I'm coming from <3
Post by: yui on Wed, 09 December 2020, 04:58:25
the problem with custom keyboards in france is that no GB supports french, so the community is small, and as the community is small, GB do not support french and so the loop continues. i switched to US-iso for that reason, but when you try to gift a keyboard this becomes a bigger problem, as you can't tell someone to just suck it up and learn a new layout :) those are my 2 cents on that issue, being french and all, and having coworker want similar keyboards as me but not willing to learn to touch-type or qwertySad not to see French Kit, but this set reminds me so many things :pHi, I am polling the option, but given its lack of popularity based on the sales data of many KAT sets, unfortunately something has to give as the number of SKUs is already high. Text variants of ortho and 40s will be culled (icons will stay).
Post by: Bobatype on Wed, 09 December 2020, 05:15:26
I absolutely adore the novelties, specifically the arrow cluster. I think you could actually narrow down on some of the novs, since the kit is pretty big. I like the colors and how vibrant they are on the renders, but I would want to see them color corrected, since I know that the V2 is much darker IRL. I prefer the lighter orange, almost tangerine, that we see, and would be more interested in that than V2, but I know that would have to be a custom color. CP is also not as nearly as white in reality as well, and if you wanted to achieve a starker white like in the renders, I would personally have gone with WS1 or WS2 [the cooler white].Thanks for the feedback. I do think the novelty kit is bit too large at the moment (was trying to also cover XT-layout, and stepped caps users too). If I don't' hear back from Valve, I'm thinking of culling some of the ones that might be obvious IP concerns like the portal gun, deployed turret, and reducing the number of bot row modifiers. I may also exploring splitting novelties into a base novelties kit, and an alternate novelty kit, but that might be needlessly complicated.
I think your mats are a bit uninteresting and feel a little bland; the concepts are okay, but the compositions of them could use some work.
If you want a more in-depth critique, you know where to find me.
The renders aren't colour corrected, and I will take a look at my Pantone guide again to see if there's better colour options than the stock GMK colours I originally conceptualised the set with. Stark white can be a bit polarising, which is why I kind of went for CP which GMK Olivia utilises to avoid the WS1 vs WS2 debate.
I agree the mats are a bit simple (some deliberately so), but I will endeavour to make them more interesting. Thanks so much for your opinion; I'll contact you a bit later for more indepth critique when I've done some revisions.
QuoteI'm not going to let this go because: I personally prefer white background mods variation which Smokey's version doesn't cover; I think a PBT option would be nice; you can mix and match what you want with the kitting; and I really don't want users of orthos/40s/ergos and other obscure layouts being left out of the fun on a concept where the split alphas shine best.
However I am happy to wait a while if needed, if the Smokey rushes out to GB first, so I don't harm chances of reaching MOQ.
This is very well said! I'd feel more inclined to wait for your set myself, for all of the above reasons, and it's good to know that while the INITIAL IC was rushed out to kind of prove that the idea wasn't copied, you'll still put a lot of work into finalising everything. That you're considering kitting very carefully, and including various colour options as well, really helps in differentiating your set.
I would second Eura's opinion on the colours. You're not going GMK so using stock GMK colours seems redundant to me, and I much prefer the brighter leaning on neon colours in the renders than actual V2 and N5. WS2 would look hella clean too.
Thanks! Yes I"m not going to rush to GB. Compromising on quality/accuracy helps no-one and I have other sets I'm co-designing I'd rather prioritise first. So I'm sorry to those interested if this takes a while, but I promise it will take less time than it took for GMK Black Lotus to get from IC to GB ;D
I hear you on the colours. I'll request some renders that are a bit more colour calibrated so a fairer comparison between options are better.
the problem with custom keyboards in france is that no GB supports french, so the community is small, and as the community is small, GB do not support french and so the loop continues. i switched to US-iso for that reason, but when you try to gift a keyboard this becomes a bigger problem, as you can't tell someone to just suck it up and learn a new layout :) those are my 2 cents on that issue, being french and all, and having coworker want similar keyboards as me but not willing to learn to touch-type or qwerty
I know you French users are small in number, but very passionate and active in the community asking for compatibility. I do feel for you, and so I will try and see what I can do (I have left it as an option in the feedback form), but can't promise.
Post by: harlekein on Wed, 09 December 2020, 07:19:17
Hello harlekein, I really appreciate that you're standing up for Boba as you should. But I do agree with you on everything - I dislike GMK kitting and MOQ system, I prefer KAT profile, etc etc. I'm not trying to tell Boba that he's wrong or his set sucks. I love this set. I'm trying to ask him if he's sure he wants to pursue this, and as you can see, he's already given a pretty solid answer.
On hindsight I do realise that my comment may appear egoistic and rude. In my defense, I have often had conversations with Boba on Discord so it was done in a friend-to-friend kind of way, I wasn't attacking a random stranger like how you may perceive. I was concerned about this blowing out of proportion and harming him, because this community is not nice when there's drama.
Please know that I am not here to fight you or anybody. I didn't even think about queue space, who even thinks of that? I was encouraging him to focus on projects that he's already involved in, because if there is backlash and he ends up not being able to handle it, at least he has that and the support of many people - including me. I'm sorry reading my post rubbed off wrong on you. Boba knows where I'm coming from <3
Alright, no harm done. I might be a bit overprotective here. It's just that for me the GMK version is not even an option or consideration, so for this set to take a backseat instead seems unreasonable to me.
In the game of keyboards and keycaps, we are all used to waiting a long time, so I do agree that it is best for this IC to fully develop before the GB takes place. Anyway, I'll shut up about it, and I'll let the focus go back to the actual set.
Post by: vurtomatic on Wed, 09 December 2020, 20:28:31
If it's established and accepted that this is unfortunate timing, why should they now be mutually exclusive? It's not a monopoly. This healthy "competition" has presented us with options, isn't it a free market?
FWIW IMHO, a color scheme isn't a concept. Seeing the ESC and Enter novelties sold the concept for me. IMHO this is a better execution of the Portal concept. It's simple as that to me. :p :thumb:
Post by: KingOfMemes on Wed, 09 December 2020, 20:36:48
How many artists have painted flowers? Picasso painted them, Monet painted them, Van Gogh painted them, Murakami "paints" them. Nobody would confuse them. It's not like someone is ripping off someone else. These are different executions of the same concept and we've seen so many instances of this in life outside of this niche hobby.You wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a handbag. You wouldn't steal a TV. You wouldn't steal a set of keycaps. Copying colors is stealing.
If it's established and accepted that this is unfortunate timing, why should they now be mutually exclusive? It's not a monopoly. This healthy "competition" has presented us with options, isn't it a free market?
FWIW IMHO, a color scheme isn't a concept. Seeing the ESC and Enter novelties sold the concept for me. IMHO this is a better execution of the Portal concept. It's simple as that to me. :p :thumb:
Post by: vurtomatic on Wed, 09 December 2020, 21:06:57
(PLUS, who's stealing from who anyway? My caveat was, if we've established and accept this is unfortunate timing — why should it be an either or situation?)
My POV is, I accept that these two sets appeared at the same time and if nobody is stealing from the other, then I'm happy to have the options. And between these two options, I rationally expressed why this set works for me. I did not say "the other set rocks because it came out earlier" or "I love the other set" because I only had one option to love.
I didn't decide there is a guilty party here who should "suffer the consequences" and withdraw their IC. I'm not looking for culprits and blame, I'm appreciating this windfall and the luxury of choosing something that "works for me".
From what you wrote, your POV is there IS a guilty party who ripped the other off, hence there can only be ONE. IP theft is certainly a serious issue and if you feel this is such a case, escalate it if such channels are available. I doubt these folks will cancel their IC based on your unsubstantiated accusation of theft.
I expressed my POV, you have yours, no need to refute. :)
Post by: KingOfMemes on Wed, 09 December 2020, 21:40:28
Post by: psxndc on Wed, 09 December 2020, 23:03:18
Post by: wolverine92 on Wed, 09 December 2020, 23:38:59
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: Bobatype on Thu, 10 December 2020, 00:43:38
Both sets are valid, no-one copied each other, we copied from the same source haha. People can pick what they prefer.
Unfortunately Smokey has politely declined collaborating and thus will proceed with his own vision at a much different timeline.
I will elect to take my sweet time improving the kitting as it's been a bit of a gnarly beast trying to account for left vs right side placements of all keys. Furthermore communicating with manufacturer tends to happen at much a slower pace with Keyreative than GMK.
In regards to copyright infringement, the company in this regard has historically taken a gentle approach to fan-based inspirations, but I am aware of concerns especially in regards to novelty designs. The other set takes a much more conservative approach in this regards, however I'd rather toe the line to a bit more faithful, because I think it looks 100x better this way.
The aperture symbol and cake are not 1:1 copies and I think are fair grounds for use, alongside the generic atom symbol. I really do think the escaping/entering exit sign symbol man is core to the novelty kit and I don't intend on changing that if possible at all, especially on Esc/enter, and arrow keys. I do wonder if I have gone overboard with also adding spacebars, and a R3 one purely for Vim users.
Due to the size of the novelty kit I was already thinking of culling/moving the portal gun and deployed turret designs away; and potentially slimming down bot row modifiers. I do wish to keep the chibi turret, and the robot core buddy if possible though, but the latter's design may need to be stripped down a bit more.
Post by: Bobatype on Thu, 10 December 2020, 00:50:51
- adding mod-colored versions of [R4] 1u backtick/tilde, 1u backslash, and 1.5u backslash in their respective modifiers kits (thanks to Nopunin10did)
- 40s kit will be updated as per 40s discord server suggestions (thanks to Konstantin and Dr Ratsby)
- Spacebar gradients need to be revamped
- ergo, 40s and ortho will likely remain icons only
- adding Iso enters and 1.25 left shift, to respective modifier kits, so even non-UK (Nordic/Spanish etc.) Iso users have access to those keys. (thanks to Nopunin10did)
- this consequently means I will likely have to shift the remaining UK ISO alpha keys into the main alphas (noted that the R2 is currently incorrectly coloured), OR decide to keep them split off as separate, but unconventionally include the Iso enter novelty keys in there. (I'd also similarly add Iso novelty keys to the obscure alphas as well, this way the main novelties kit costs are kept lower).
- Novelty kit needs to be trimmed down (unsure if spacebar novelties should remain; and portal gun might go, or kept to just one key for now)
- Two variants of novelty kits will likely be required given there are two versions of modifier colours; as the the current bot row modifiers currently on satisfies one camp
In the mean-time, I'm eagerly awaiting KAT renders; and re-looking at other options for orange and blue (current renders are inaccurate in displaying what V2 and N5 actually look in reality).
Post by: wolverine92 on Thu, 10 December 2020, 07:13:21
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: hottrout on Thu, 10 December 2020, 07:44:55
Post by: RA Can on Sat, 12 December 2020, 22:45:18
btw discord link not working
Post by: konstantin on Sat, 12 December 2020, 22:51:59
I've been waiting for this since long time.. you monster
btw discord link not working
Profile pic checks out.
Care for some lemons?
Post by: Hell-es on Sun, 13 December 2020, 03:46:01
Really like the theme
Post by: xlSantos on Sun, 13 December 2020, 04:52:13
Post by: hottrout on Sun, 13 December 2020, 05:56:15
Post by: AllieBlairThomas on Sun, 13 December 2020, 17:44:24
Post by: DrHigsby on Sun, 13 December 2020, 19:24:49
Also thank you to all those who have pointed a few kitting issues that will happen soon TM:
- adding mod-colored versions of [R4] 1u backtick/tilde, 1u backslash, and 1.5u backslash in their respective modifiers kits (thanks to Nopunin10did)
- 40s kit will be updated as per 40s discord server suggestions (thanks to Konstantin and Dr Ratsby)
- Spacebar gradients need to be revamped
- ergo, 40s and ortho will likely remain icons only
- adding Iso enters and 1.25 left shift, to respective modifier kits, so even non-UK (Nordic/Spanish etc.) Iso users have access to those keys. (thanks to Nopunin10did)
- this consequently means I will likely have to shift the remaining UK ISO alpha keys into the main alphas (noted that the R2 is currently incorrectly coloured), OR decide to keep them split off as separate, but unconventionally include the Iso enter novelty keys in there. (I'd also similarly add Iso novelty keys to the obscure alphas as well, this way the main novelties kit costs are kept lower).
- Novelty kit needs to be trimmed down (unsure if spacebar novelties should remain; and portal gun might go, or kept to just one key for now)
- Two variants of novelty kits will likely be required given there are two versions of modifier colours; as the the current bot row modifiers currently on satisfies one camp
In the mean-time, I'm eagerly awaiting KAT renders; and re-looking at other options for orange and blue (current renders are inaccurate in displaying what V2 and N5 actually look in reality).
Cheers, mate! I’m lookin forward to it!
Post by: MakerJake on Mon, 14 December 2020, 12:00:42
Edit: To be more clear, I have heard/seen that some KAT had sets quality issues. I don't know whether that still happens or if it was a problem long in the past. Has that been fixed/does that happen now? I really like this set and the designs so I want to make sure it will be as great as it looks. also, I'm not sure if this was the best place to ask this.
Post by: KingOfMemes on Mon, 14 December 2020, 12:37:36
I think this is a really cool set and design but I have heard some not so good things about KATs quality.Such as? I've participated in every KAT groupbuy that has offered colevrak, which is most of them. There were a few legend issues from KAT Milkshake that Keyreative and vendors remedied posthaste. Other than that I've heard of 0 issues. KAT Eternal is/was flawless.
There are a **** ton of KAT sets that have come before this one, some of which have concluded groupbuys. Saying you've 'heard some not so good things' in this IC about KATs quality is really uninformed imho.
Post by: MakerJake on Mon, 14 December 2020, 12:52:13
I have heard that there have been some issues with KAT sets. If that's no longer as true I am happy to be corrected. I should have added more content to my original comment to make it more clear. And on this thread might not have been the best place to put that. I do see how it can be seen as unrelated but at the time I though it was close enough as it had to do with the manufacturing of the set, sorry if it wasn't.I think this is a really cool set and design but I have heard some not so good things about KATs quality.Such as? I've participated in every KAT groupbuy that has offered colevrak, which is most of them. There were a few legend issues from KAT Milkshake that Keyreative and vendors remedied posthaste. Other than that I've heard of 0 issues. KAT Eternal is/was flawless.
There are a **** ton of KAT sets that have come before this one, some of which have concluded groupbuys. Saying you've 'heard some not so good things' in this IC about KATs quality is really uninformed imho.
Post by: geohammy on Mon, 14 December 2020, 14:16:41
Post by: Chronicle on Tue, 15 December 2020, 17:04:32
I really do think the escaping/entering exit sign symbol man is core to the novelty kit and I don't intend on changing that if possible at all, especially on Esc/enter, and arrow keys.I just wanted to chime in and say that the Esc/Enter showing in the render is my favourite part of the design, so I would hate to see them changed. I agree that it's the "core" to the kit; I like the focus on that over the portals.
Hoping to see the KAT renders soon!
Post by: kk73715 on Wed, 16 December 2020, 02:29:33
I ask this because KAT Refined does this and if KAT can continue to keep the font this would be huge news. Yes there would be more similarities with the current GMK equivalent but this should just incentivise both designers to make their respective designs more unique. Timing is untimely but there isn't much you can do anymore.
Post by: eskimojo on Wed, 16 December 2020, 06:41:44
I'm not too familiar with the details behind keycap design, but would it be possible to use GMK font?
I ask this because KAT Refined does this and if KAT can continue to keep the font this would be huge news. Yes there would be more similarities with the current GMK equivalent but this should just incentivise both designers to make their respective designs more unique. Timing is untimely but there isn't much you can do anymore.
It's possible to do if MacSurfy shares his files, but regardless I don't feel like it would fit this set.
Personally I'd love if the set used FF DIN Bold, as it'd match the Portal aesthetic perfectly.
Post by: hottrout on Wed, 16 December 2020, 08:15:22
Post by: penvellynn on Mon, 21 December 2020, 22:58:18
Post by: parablol on Wed, 23 December 2020, 02:10:47
Post by: LordOwen on Sun, 27 December 2020, 07:46:29
Also, it looks like the Discord link is broken or expired :/
Post by: GogNogler on Sat, 06 February 2021, 17:33:14
Post by: Bobatype on Sat, 06 February 2021, 21:57:32
Just curious if you're still working on this set. Trying to decide to wait on this one or hop on that GMK gb.
Hi! Yes, I'm still slowly working on this set. I've just been a bit quiet on progress on this, to give the GMK Gateway GB its own space to shine, and the fact I'd likely run this GB towards the latter half of 2021; so there's been no hurry to actively update the IC.
I'm currently focusing on my other projects KAT Great Wave (GB likely June), and KAT Space Dust (GB likely April) as a priority first.
I've in fact made a few changes to KAT Quantum such as:
- FF Din Bold for the set's typeface, the same font as the title; thanks to those who suggested this, as it does really fit well with the theme, whilst utilising the advantage of dyesub
- Colour changes. Orange and Blue have switched from GMK stock colours to a Pantone that was more reflective of the first renders where the orange and blue is a bit more 'lighter/summery', vs the intense blue/orange of V2 and N5. Some may not like it, but I believe overall it looks better and is less tiring to look at, whilst harmonising with the white a bit better.
- There's a whole list of kitting changes I've done but haven't had time to properly update the images, and outline yet (soonTM): such as a few changes to F-row pattern, and having orange accents on the arrow keys as an additional option (Whilst playing with render, I found different layouts of TKL and 65%, led to certain situations where orange or blue arrow keys would look better than the other, so will offer both), and grey Esc/Enter accents as an option.
- The novelty kit has also been slimmed a bit down, as I haven't been successful getting a reply yet from the company, so as such, I'm likely culling the gun, and the detailed deployed turret in the mean-time just to be safe. Don't worry, the cute, chibi turret will stay. I have also simplified the Robot orb novelty (for better visual consistency with other designs, and also less IP issue), and will be adding the dots and tick/cross symbols a novelties as well.
Thanks to some of the avid Portal fans who have reached out directly to provide some further input on some of these elements.
I've also added some quick renders of the new colours, with the new font as a placeholder in the mean-time. I need to find time re-render them with novelties and new angles lol.
Don't worry I haven't abandoned this IC, as I fully intend to see it to completion. But just note, I will give it some time to get to GB, because running one too quickly after the GMK set would like negatively impact chances of reaching MOQ. I also would love to get officially licensed if possible.
If you want a portal themed set sooner, the GMK route will be a lot quicker to get to production first. This set being KAT though will be ultimately cheaper, have a larger variety of colourway pattern options and kitting compatibility. But it's up to you if wish to wait that much longer.
EDIT: I'm trying another avenue of contact to Valve to get official licensing.
Post by: long_qt_pie on Sat, 06 February 2021, 22:43:11
Post by: _senya on Sun, 07 February 2021, 00:09:28
Post by: soloplayer on Mon, 22 February 2021, 01:33:40
cant wait for the GB
Post by: Finite on Sun, 11 April 2021, 15:45:58
Post by: L4ll1g470r on Sun, 11 April 2021, 23:23:02
Keep up the good work.