Author Topic: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.  (Read 8820 times)

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Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 18:17:32 »
Keyboard showed up today.  Of course, rather than getting back to work like I should have, I had to populate it with switches and caps and try it.

I think this may be a home use only board unless I find a key/cap combination that's quieter.  I am using Cherry tan/grey dye subs from ages ago, they CLACK.  Pandas feel nice but bottoming out is a way of life with these.  I ordered the "G40-thin" O-rings in somewhat anticipation of this, and I hate them.  WAY too thick.  Is there an O-ring that's much thinner than these?

Oddly the stabilized keys sound great.  I don't know what the difference is.

I still need the nav cluster keycaps because I only have the relegendables, and does anyone make a 6.25 spacebar that matches these old caps, or was there one?  I'm guessing there was because I have the win and menu keys that I must have bought along the way.  I am using what is apparently an old ABS space bar from WASD that has some extra sockets epoxied on it to make it universal.  I know I did that back in the day because I remember making the jigs for it.  I think some of the extra posts were to make it work on a Noppoo.  Do Noppoo even exist anymore?

I ordered some dirt cheap side printed keycaps as well.  Guess I'm going down that rabbit hole again.

I like this board so far.  If anything I think it has a classier look than my Filco, and if I decide that I don't like the Pandas I can swap in a different switch in about an hour.  Also feels super solid compared to the Keychron which I've been using as my home board for a few weeks now.  I can twist the body of the Keychron a little, the GMMK is nice and rigid.  I will have to compare this to my modded Filco, but it might be even nicer than that, and the hotswap is just great.  I was surprised to find that it has a strip of bright on the bevel around the case as you really can't see that in the photos on the web site, but it isn't unattractive, nor is it gaudy like you might think.  I kind of like the aesthetic where the top of the case is the plate as well, gives it a minimalist, purposeful look.  I know, that has nothing to do with how it types or other functional ****, but I am in fact an engineer who's a repressed industrial designer.

One minor little quibble: you have to remember that right win is "function" unless you have a keycap set with an optional function key.  That's it.  Everything else is perfect.  I'm actually really happy so far.
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 April 2021, 18:32:40 by N8N »
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 19:29:15 »
I think Glorious puts a bit of lube on the stabs, they've also been making small changes each batch making them better and better each time so they may be better than when I got mine. Chances are if you lube and band-aid mod they can get even better. 

It's amazing what you can get for the money in a keyboard today compared to not even 10 years ago.
Glad you're happy with it.

For caps, they may not be the prettiest, I've come to really like the HK Gaming sets on Amazon. Cheap, thick PBT and comes with enough caps to cover/fit pretty much any board I own. The 9009 set works great with the rgb backlight as they act like a blank slate you can add a splash of (rgb) color to without being over the top. I wasn't sure about the texture, almost powdery smooth, but it grew on me and they never feel greasy. The only downside is the bottom of the caps can be a bit sharp on a low profile board like the GMMK but that's livable or fixable for what you get. There's a couple shot of them here on my NK65.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
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Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
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Costar model with browns
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Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 19:37:44 »
I think Glorious puts a bit of lube on the stabs, they've also been making small changes each batch making them better and better each time so they may be better than when I got mine. Chances are if you lube and band-aid mod they can get even better. 

It's amazing what you can get for the money in a keyboard today compared to not even 10 years ago.
Glad you're happy with it.

For caps, they may not be the prettiest, I've come to really like the HK Gaming sets on Amazon. Cheap, thick PBT and comes with enough caps to cover/fit pretty much any board I own. The 9009 set works great with the rgb backlight as they act like a blank slate you can add a splash of (rgb) color to without being over the top. I wasn't sure about the texture, almost powdery smooth, but it grew on me and they never feel greasy. The only downside is the bottom of the caps can be a bit sharp on a low profile board like the GMMK but that's livable or fixable for what you get. There's a couple shot of them here on my NK65.

Yep, it's insane... I'm just still not completely over the "hotswap" thing.  Took me a whole afternoon and a used POS board to get MX Clears in my current daily driver back in the day.  That one has blue/grey Imsto PBTs on it, want something different now.  I actually was thinking of this set

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WV48W6C/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A257ALKOU7JKIJ&psc=1

although it appears Glorious just released a new set of PBT doubleshot puddings, which might be cool for the shine through.

I already ordered a set of side printed PBTs from GeekKeys just to get me started with a new set.  We'll see how I like those when they get here.  In retrospect though I should have ordered both grey and white to make a "tuxedo" keycap set.  D'oh.  They were cheap though.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 19:55:01 »
I think I figured it out.  I think with this keycap set the stabs bottom out before the keycaps do.  but the ones without stabs thwock like crazy.  Maybe it is possible the stabilized keys actually have a factory version of band-aid mod?  Will have to look if I take it apart.

If I could find some super thin o-rings that would probably be perfect.  I haven't found any yet that I don't hate though.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline saltimate

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 21:35:39 »
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 22:05:00 »
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)

I haven't seen them available yet, although they've been recommended before.

After playing with the sampler switches, I'm thinking I might like the Kailh purples, as they feel very much like the Pandas but seem to have a spring that rises in force when you get close to bottoming out.  May end up ordering a set of those to try unless someone can recommend something better?  Not that the Pandas are bad, I'm just trying to take advantage of the hotswap and try a few different switches that are close to what I like.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline saltimate

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 23:27:22 »
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)

I haven't seen them available yet, although they've been recommended before.

After playing with the sampler switches, I'm thinking I might like the Kailh purples, as they feel very much like the Pandas but seem to have a spring that rises in force when you get close to bottoming out.  May end up ordering a set of those to try unless someone can recommend something better?  Not that the Pandas are bad, I'm just trying to take advantage of the hotswap and try a few different switches that are close to what I like.

nice, ill have to check those out myself
dailyclack (australian vendor but shipping to usa apparently isnt that bad) and aliexpress both have the boba switches in stock

Offline esr

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 21 April 2021, 23:44:16 »
I got a New Model M last week and I'm really happy with it so far.

Classic design is still classic and Unicomp has refreshed their tooling, so the rather poor build quality of older Unicomp devices is in the past.  They've gone back to roots, too - the New Model M is very similar to the classic 193104 except for the 104-key layout and black case.

It won't do if you crave backlights or media keys, but damn does it feel good.
Unicomp New Model M

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 08:09:56 »
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)

I haven't seen them available yet, although they've been recommended before.

After playing with the sampler switches, I'm thinking I might like the Kailh purples, as they feel very much like the Pandas but seem to have a spring that rises in force when you get close to bottoming out.  May end up ordering a set of those to try unless someone can recommend something better?  Not that the Pandas are bad, I'm just trying to take advantage of the hotswap and try a few different switches that are close to what I like.

nice, ill have to check those out myself
dailyclack (australian vendor but shipping to usa apparently isnt that bad) and aliexpress both have the boba switches in stock

Interesting.  It appears the U4s are dampened, does that mean for bottoming out?  Do they otherwise feel like the Pandas?  If so this is a real contender for "next switch to try".

I just found out I'll be working crazy OT for the next few weeks, so I went ahead and ordered the dev/tty keycaps.  We'll see if I can deal without the nav layer on the numpad.  They are so darn cool otherwise.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline saltimate

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 09:20:35 »

nice, ill have to check those out myself
dailyclack (australian vendor but shipping to usa apparently isnt that bad) and aliexpress both have the boba switches in stock


Interesting.  It appears the U4s are dampened, does that mean for bottoming out?  Do they otherwise feel like the Pandas?  If so this is a real contender for "next switch to try".

I just found out I'll be working crazy OT for the next few weeks, so I went ahead and ordered the dev/tty keycaps.  We'll see if I can deal without the nav layer on the numpad.  They are so darn cool otherwise.


siiiick, i love the mt3 profile, /dev/tty was one of my first keycap sets. i have been eyeing extended 2048 lustfully, kinda off-putting having to buy from drop but idk maybe...
[rant]
fuk im loathed to give drop money, damn those hoardy kunts and their exclusivity bullsh!t. they could set up a relationship with vendors around the world but nooooo gota have everything shipped from china to usa just so they can charge me to ship it back, what a wank. greedy fukkers, seriously if you can limit your purchases from drop and fill their inboxes with angry letters about international shipping that would be great. they have had tons of other issues in the past but i dont remember what they are (screwing over designers i think, possibly just horrendous communication but yeah), hopefully those issues have been resolved by now, but it has led to a kind of cult of hating drop for many people anyway. mt3 good, drop bad. well i say that but i know a guy who is pissed off with the designer of mt3 for some reason...
[/rant]

but yeah nah, for the boba u4 there are pads on the stem which kill the noise on bottoming out and on the return. i have not tried pandas, the bump is similar to zealios v2... it is a largish smooth bump which starts at the top. ie you feel the bump immediately, there is no travel before the bump starts, there is some travel after the bump ends. its not like cherry tactiles where the bump starts part way through the keystroke. hope that helps?
the boba u4t i believe is the same but with out the pads and also some tweaking so they have a more "thocky" sound...

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 15:32:19 »
thanks for the reply.  From reading the reviews it sounds like the bobas while somewhat of a boutique switch also might be what I'm looking for.  Thanks also for letting me know about sources.  I just need to decide if now I really want a keeb that I'll have likely ~$250 in by the time I'm done with it, but c'est la vie I guess...  amortized over the life of my Filco it still would have been worth it though, that's only $25 a year for a non-crappy typing experience (and the Filco is still alive, I actually just lent it to a coworker today because we're setting up two new employees' workstations and I don't have any spare non-PS/2 boards laying around)

I've been using the Pandas all day in the office and nobody's said anything, but they are noticeably thockier compared to the Clears.  Should be a valid comparison as the Filco/Clears also has PBT keycaps, but in its case old Imstos.  So maybe a little quieter but still in the same family.  Personally I'd like them to be quieter although I like the feel very much.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 18:14:29 »
for switches, consider boba u4 (silent) or boba u4t (not silent)

I haven't seen them available yet, although they've been recommended before.

After playing with the sampler switches, I'm thinking I might like the Kailh purples, as they feel very much like the Pandas but seem to have a spring that rises in force when you get close to bottoming out.  May end up ordering a set of those to try unless someone can recommend something better?  Not that the Pandas are bad, I'm just trying to take advantage of the hotswap and try a few different switches that are close to what I like.

I use Kailh Pro Purples on an alum. hotswap board. They're great for that purpose, especially with PBT keycaps. [I use Varmilo.]

They are loud, though. And Holy Pandas are even louder.

This is because the Holy Pandas are a long-stem design. The long stem of the Halo-type stem slams into the lower housing, which originally wasn't designed for it. This produces the characteristic 'thock,' and it is even louder than regular MX tactiles.

It's a popular design, but others have been guiding you to the Boba U4. There's a reason for this.

The U4 Boba is a 'high-tactility' large-bump tactile, similar in concept to the Holy Pandas. The U4 has its own 'loud' equivalent, the U4T [Thock], which is not dissimilar to a Holy Panda. [The whole design is inspired by the Pandas].

So if you want a silent Panda, the closest thing right now is the U4 Boba switch. They are so close in concept, that you can put a Halo [Holy] stem in a Boba housing, and get something very much like Holy Pandas [I think they may be better than Holy Pandas].

So just get a stock U4 Boba in 62 G or 68 G or whatever. They are robust tactiles that are much quieter than Holy Panda. They do employ bumpers on the stem, as you suggested. In a properly-silenced design, they are as quiet or quieter than an office rubber-dome. The only stock factory board that silences them properly so far, in my experience, is the Archon AK87/89 series. Although it is possible to silence other factory hotswap keyboards.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 16:04:33 »
I use Kailh Pro Purples on an alum. hotswap board. They're great for that purpose, especially with PBT keycaps. [I use Varmilo.]

They are loud, though. And Holy Pandas are even louder.

This is because the Holy Pandas are a long-stem design. The long stem of the Halo-type stem slams into the lower housing, which originally wasn't designed for it. This produces the characteristic 'thock,' and it is even louder than regular MX tactiles.

It's a popular design, but others have been guiding you to the Boba U4. There's a reason for this.

The U4 Boba is a 'high-tactility' large-bump tactile, similar in concept to the Holy Pandas. The U4 has its own 'loud' equivalent, the U4T [Thock], which is not dissimilar to a Holy Panda. [The whole design is inspired by the Pandas].

So if you want a silent Panda, the closest thing right now is the U4 Boba switch. They are so close in concept, that you can put a Halo [Holy] stem in a Boba housing, and get something very much like Holy Pandas [I think they may be better than Holy Pandas].

So just get a stock U4 Boba in 62 G or 68 G or whatever. They are robust tactiles that are much quieter than Holy Panda. They do employ bumpers on the stem, as you suggested. In a properly-silenced design, they are as quiet or quieter than an office rubber-dome. The only stock factory board that silences them properly so far, in my experience, is the Archon AK87/89 series. Although it is possible to silence other factory hotswap keyboards.

OK, you've convinced me...  I love the feel of the Pandas, I really do.  But they thock a bit much for long term use in an office environment, and I type a LOT.  Just got a shipping confirmation on my keycaps today and as such I went ahead and ordered 110 U4s (68g version) from Daily Clack, because I'm guessing they will arrive sooner.  It would have been cheaper to get them from AliExpress, but they estimated a whole month for shipping.  I figure I might as well just dive in and get 'er done all at once.

I'm hoping that they live up to the hype.  So far I am really liking this board even in its current state; I do think I might like it better than the Filco.  If the Boba U4s do in fact have a similar bump to the Pandas but are quiet/dampened, maybe they'd feel something like the old Alps switches in my SGI Granite?  That would be amazing, in a keyboard that fits on the tray of my standing desk and can take modern PBT keycaps...  looking forward to this :)

I can't believe I'm spending this much money on a keyboard, but hey, like I said if it lasts as long as my Filco (which is still perfectly functional and useable) it'll be worth it.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 21:46:32 »
Yeah, saving money is not really part of custom keyboards.

But the U4 Boba is a very tactile switch, by MX standards. Certainly no MX Brown. People often liken it to 45 G Topre or Niz domes. Whatever the case, it's pretty close to a silenced Panda or T1.

So if you're looking for a tactile for an office keyboard that is around what a Holy Panda is like, this is it.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 24 April 2021, 10:19:34 »
Yeah, saving money is not really part of custom keyboards.

But the U4 Boba is a very tactile switch, by MX standards. Certainly no MX Brown. People often liken it to 45 G Topre or Niz domes. Whatever the case, it's pretty close to a silenced Panda or T1.

So if you're looking for a tactile for an office keyboard that is around what a Holy Panda is like, this is it.

You're not wrong, this is not a money saving exercise.  I just kind of randomly checked in and discovered hotswap boards and just got the itch to try something new.

Once this is done I very well may pack away all my old boards and just keep the Filco and GMMK out as backup and user respectively.  Might even sell some we will see.  I know that the value of the Model F has gone up now that converters are readily available.  Which reminds me I need to order a couple more so that I can occasionally try all my old boards.

It seems so quaint that I used to buy cheap vintage boards just to try different switches...
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline BITglen

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 03:40:41 »
I guess it´s really a taste thing. The thing you like might not be the same for me.
I have really tried a lot of keyboards, like model M and JWK medium tactile but actually never could settle on a specific one.
After a couple of week, i get tired of it...

So lately I decided to get an Logetiech mk295 silent, and I love it. I have never tried a more silent keyboard .
They dont sell anymore, but I bought it at a local shop called https://basisit.dk

lets see how long it lasts, but until now I really enjoy it.    Actually I have an old Dell keyboard on work that clacks.... i love it.... dirt cheap :-)

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 05:36:37 »
I have been reading that although the MK295 seems like a solid keyboard, the "SilentTouch" technology starts to wear out after 6 - 7 weeks of intensive usage.

In other words, the keyboard still works, but the silencing seems to wear off...


Quote
But after using the set every day for about six weeks, the mouse still performs great and is whisper quiet, however the keyboard is just as loud now as my original Logitech keyboard. This is only observed on the main typing area of the keyboard, and keys that I don't use as often (in my case the number pad, F keys, and number row) are all still as quiet as when the board was brand new. So, clearly whatever the "silent touch" technology is, it doesn't hold up with moderate to high usage. So, if you're typing your novel, or doing any coding/programming, transcription, documenting, as your day to day work, this technology does not hold up.


Different reviewer:

Quote
Update after using for 7 weeks:
I feel like the keyboard has gotten a tad louder. I type away at around 80 WPM for 6 hours a day and I feel like the keyboard lost it’s “silence”. The key strokes are pretty audible now :(

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 19:35:20 »
Man, I just realized I may have messed up.

The Daily Clack Boba U4s have white tops with a LED window.

The AliExpress Boba U4s have clear tops.

Am I going to regret getting the Daily Clack ones?  I never noticed the difference until I got a tracking notice.  Kind of don't want to spend another $100 on yet another set of switches though.

I do NOT however have a set of shine through caps other than the stock ABS ones on a Keychron, so this is all sorta kinda academic and I guess my OCD is kicking in.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 20:19:12 »
The 'no-slot' tops [the ones without a slot for LED lights] are tighter. I would always go with those for the typing experience.

I'm not 100% certain that the ones you ordered have a looser slot top, but you might want to e-mail the store. You can remedy this by purchasing no-slot tops directly from Gazzew on Reddit/Discord. They're not expensive. Also, ask him about the switches you ordered.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 27 April 2021, 12:08:39 »
And now I look and I had a tab for "RGBKB" open because they came up in a web search while looking for info on those switches and they have them back in stock, and the clear top version too.  D'oh.

I've been working so much OT lately that I'm tempted to just go ahead and order them, possibly the 62g version so I could compare.  I know this is very very silly.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 982
Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 27 April 2021, 14:16:52 »
The irony is that the 62 and 68 G versions are not too far apart. The 62 G is pretty powerful for its rating.

The perceived differences between the spring weight are minor, since a lot of the switch feel in the Boba comes from the heavy stem tactility and its strong tactile leaf.

The pro move here, if you want to spend money, is to get the parts that make up a Boba from Gazzew on Reddit. They're easy to assemble, and don't really require lubing [although lubing the springs is a good idea].

That way, you can choose the exact spring weight you want, maybe throw some Halo stems in there to make Holy Bobas, whatever. At least you can specifically order the "No slot tops," and get the right ones that you need.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 27 April 2021, 16:11:51 »
Once this is done I very well may pack away all my old boards and just keep the Filco and GMMK out as backup and user respectively.  Might even sell some we will see.  I know that the value of the Model F has gone up now that converters are readily available.  Which reminds me I need to order a couple more so that I can occasionally try all my old boards.

Even just a year ago you could find an F XT for less than $100 with some patience. Capacitive buckling spring prices have really ballooned out of control pretty recently. It makes me wish I had picked up even more F ATs ... not that I really need as many Model Fs as I have to begin with.

If you sell any, I wouldn't mind another NEC blue oval board. I could use a parts Space Invaders board too since I recently sent one of the springs from mine into orbit.

It seems so quaint that I used to buy cheap vintage boards just to try different switches...

I do that more than buying anything new, and keep converters everywhere.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions when you go back through all of the old switch types you have and compare them to your new MX clones, unless you mean just old boards with MX switches in them.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 27 April 2021, 16:21:02 »
Once this is done I very well may pack away all my old boards and just keep the Filco and GMMK out as backup and user respectively.  Might even sell some we will see.  I know that the value of the Model F has gone up now that converters are readily available.  Which reminds me I need to order a couple more so that I can occasionally try all my old boards.

Even just a year ago you could find an F XT for less than $100 with some patience. Capacitive buckling spring prices have really ballooned out of control pretty recently. It makes me wish I had picked up even more F ATs ... not that I really need as many Model Fs as I have to begin with.

If you sell any, I wouldn't mind another NEC blue oval board. I could use a parts Space Invaders board too since I recently sent one of the springs from mine into orbit.

That I can't help you with, sadly.

Quote
It seems so quaint that I used to buy cheap vintage boards just to try different switches...

I do that more than buying anything new, and keep converters everywhere.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions when you go back through all of the old switch types you have and compare them to your new MX clones, unless you mean just old boards with MX switches in them.

A little bit of both.  I have MX clear, brown, blue, and black in various boards, as well as a Model F, two Model Ms, and a SGI Granite.  Also a new Keychron with Gateron browns.  At one point I had an old AEK and a Dell QuietKey as well but I let those go years back.  The former, because even with the then available ADB converter it was too laggy for me to use on a PC (IMHO)

Of all of those I think I like the IBMs and the Granite the best as far as feel goes, the latter being most suitable for office work.  That's going to be my benchmark I think for how I like the new switches.  I'm still using the board with Pandas as a daily now as a lot of people are still working from home and I lent a new hire my Filco/clears to set his desk up (transfer from field, I consider the guy a friend - I'm not completely insane)  The problem with the older boards is we have standing desks with keyboard trays in the office, and a Granite doesn't leave enough space there to use a mouse as well.  A Filco or GMMK fits fine however even a 104, so that's the reason for my interest in finding a MX format switch that I like the best.
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 April 2021, 16:25:21 by N8N »
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 10:58:53 »
It seems so quaint that I used to buy cheap vintage boards just to try different switches...

I do that more than buying anything new, and keep converters everywhere.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions when you go back through all of the old switch types you have and compare them to your new MX clones, unless you mean just old boards with MX switches in them.

A little bit of both.  I have MX clear, brown, blue, and black in various boards, as well as a Model F, two Model Ms, and a SGI Granite.  Also a new Keychron with Gateron browns.  At one point I had an old AEK and a Dell QuietKey as well but I let those go years back.  The former, because even with the then available ADB converter it was too laggy for me to use on a PC (IMHO)

Of all of those I think I like the IBMs and the Granite the best as far as feel goes, the latter being most suitable for office work.  That's going to be my benchmark I think for how I like the new switches.  I'm still using the board with Pandas as a daily now as a lot of people are still working from home and I lent a new hire my Filco/clears to set his desk up (transfer from field, I consider the guy a friend - I'm not completely insane)  The problem with the older boards is we have standing desks with keyboard trays in the office, and a Granite doesn't leave enough space there to use a mouse as well.  A Filco or GMMK fits fine however even a 104, so that's the reason for my interest in finding a MX format switch that I like the best.

I haven't used any ADB boards extensively, so I couldn't say whether or not the adapter I have suffers the same problem. I only bought it to test a NeXT board I picked up. It probably needs a cleaning before I ruin the switches in it.

Those Granites (cool boards, I have been tempted to get one) could have a lot of different Alps switches in them, same with the AEK. I wonder what was in them.

Are you saying that an F107 is out of the question at work?  ;D

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 16:09:25 »
buy topre keyboard and leave hobby forever
May display immature behavior
Does not understand simple things (Treeleaf moment)

Has stopped talking in third person

treeleaf KB concoctions: https://discord.gg/wEueaf8BaV

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 17:10:48 »
buy topre keyboard and leave hobby forever

To each their own.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 18:42:47 »
Got my caps (the /dev/tty set) today.  They are awesome looking.  I cannot wait for the new switches to get here so I can put this together.

I really hope I like typing on these.  Because while I feel really extravagant having paid for them, they are every bit as cool looking in person as on screen.  It has to be since grade school since I've used anything with this profile however; the only thing I can think of that would have been like this is an actual Selectric typewriter.  The fact that the set has a "function" key to replace right super/windows makes my OCD very very happy as I can put this on the GMMK and everything will be right and proper.  Now the question is, do I use the red ESC thus making people likely notice the keeb and think it might be special, or go stealth?
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline iri

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 29 April 2021, 03:03:35 »
buy topre keyboard and leave hobby forever
Didn't work for me.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 29 April 2021, 09:34:57 »
buy topre keyboard and leave hobby forever

To each their own.

I'm using a 55g 87u right this moment. I usually need to force myself to put time in on it. They're wonderfully made and buttery smooth, but I need my rattly and thunderous clicky keyboards. If I go without for too long, I feel like my soul is being drained from my body.

Now the question is, do I use the red ESC thus making people likely notice the keeb and think it might be special, or go stealth?

Are you worried someone might take it and walk? If so, I would go stealth. I used a Corsair K70 at work for years, and I put black gaffer tape over the Corsair logo. That was partly because it was the ugliest logo they ever used, but also partly because I work in a school district and know that students would instantly recognize it as a mechanical board just walking past. I also turned the backlighting off completely.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 29 April 2021, 10:21:08 »
Now the question is, do I use the red ESC thus making people likely notice the keeb and think it might be special, or go stealth?

Are you worried someone might take it and walk? If so, I would go stealth. I used a Corsair K70 at work for years, and I put black gaffer tape over the Corsair logo. That was partly because it was the ugliest logo they ever used, but also partly because I work in a school district and know that students would instantly recognize it as a mechanical board just walking past. I also turned the backlighting off completely.

I'm not worried at all about someone taking it, it's more that there's one individual in particular here who doesn't like our department because we're "loud" and I don't really feel like giving any ammo to antagonize.  That said, I've had a Filco with blue/grey dye subs on my desk the entire time I've been here up until I got the GMMK.  I have had a few comments about it because you definitely can hear me typing because I'm one of the few people here who actually can touch type, but I can tell you with assurance that when I needed to borrow an old Dell dome board (because my PKI card reader in my laptop died, and I needed to log into some secure areas) that that racket was pissing ME off, so it's not the keyboard...
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 29 April 2021, 10:34:49 »
Now the question is, do I use the red ESC thus making people likely notice the keeb and think it might be special, or go stealth?

Are you worried someone might take it and walk? If so, I would go stealth. I used a Corsair K70 at work for years, and I put black gaffer tape over the Corsair logo. That was partly because it was the ugliest logo they ever used, but also partly because I work in a school district and know that students would instantly recognize it as a mechanical board just walking past. I also turned the backlighting off completely.

I'm not worried at all about someone taking it, it's more that there's one individual in particular here who doesn't like our department because we're "loud" and I don't really feel like giving any ammo to antagonize.  That said, I've had a Filco with blue/grey dye subs on my desk the entire time I've been here up until I got the GMMK.  I have had a few comments about it because you definitely can hear me typing because I'm one of the few people here who actually can touch type, but I can tell you with assurance that when I needed to borrow an old Dell dome board (because my PKI card reader in my laptop died, and I needed to log into some secure areas) that that racket was pissing ME off, so it's not the keyboard...

I think in that case I would make it as gaudy as possible just to irritate anyone petty enough to care.  ;D

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 03 May 2021, 19:42:14 »
So today my Bobas showed up.  These are the 62g ones, with the clear "RGB" tops.

THANK YOU.  These are perfect.  Super silent.  Quite tactile.  I may not need heavier springs in fact, although if they don't break in I may take this apart again and lube the switches.  I feel just enough scratchiness to be worth mentioning.  The /dev/tty caps look amazing too.  No pics yet because I still have some fine tuning to do.

Notes:

1) oh damn the Bobas have the two extra pins on the housings.  We void warranties here, so out come the flush cutters.  This turned out to be no problem at all.
2) RGBKB shipped these in a Ziploc bag inside a padded envelope.  More switches than I'd like had bent pins out of the box, er, bag.  I only lost one however, and that one I didn't notice that I needed to straighten.  So, again, not a real problem.  They also sent along a keycap and switch puller which was nice.  I already had them, but more stuff is nice.
3) When removing the old keycaps, a couple switches came right out.  Trying different switches did not change this, either Bobas or Pandas.  After looking a bit I noticed that the ones that this happened to were right next to the screws that went through the top plate.  On a hunch, I backed them out and then seated them lightly tight (couldn't estimate torque, but it was "snug" with three fingers on the handle) and that seemed to solve that problem.  So, again, problem solved.
4) Why haven't I posted pictures?  Well, this problem I haven't sorted yet, and may not until tomorrow because I'm tired and have to work tomorrow.  I haven't installed the space bar from the /dev/tty set because something is hanging up and the return is nowhere near snappy enough.  The same is true of the red enter for the numpad, although the grey one works fine.  My operating theory is that it's post/stabilizer interference because this is ONLY happening on stabilized keys (the left shift feels a little draggy too, but like it will break in.)  I'm using the space bar from the Cherry PBT set (it's actually a WASD ABS space bar that I glued more posts on to make it work on a Noppoo)

I'm assuming that I'm going to be able to sort 4) above and not have to ditch these sweet keycaps, in which case I'm going to pronounce this exercise a resounding success.  Even in the process of typing this post I think I can feel the switches getting a little smoother, and the sound (or lack thereof) is amazing.  If anyone complains about this board, I am going to bludgeon them over the head with it.  My only negatives:

1) as mentioned, I need to address stickiness on at least two keycaps.  This did not happen with the Pandas/Cherry keycaps, although I did have to take an X-acto knife to the epoxy on my modified space bar to get that to work, so I assume the fix for the new caps is the same.
2) backlight is wasted, although the subtle effect is actually pretty cool  I've made the backlight around the regular keys yellow-orange, the grey keys a green-blue, and under ESC and both enters red.  I'm not much for backlight motion effects, I just set it to static.
3) As I've mixed and matched keycaps, I don't have the symbols for the function layer on the F-keys.  No big loss.
4) my one complaint about the /dev/tty keycaps is that the nav layer of the numpad is not shown.  However these caps are so damn awesome I am going to see if I can live with these.  I also have a set of grey side printed caps on the way, but I think that I likely will be sticking with these.

As for the combo of the Bobas and the GMMK - well, it looks, feels, and sounds pure class.  Yes, this is now an approximately $250 keyboard. (yikes!)  It also accomplishes what I wanted to do with my Filco far better than that board ever did.  The big difference is, of course, the Bobas vs. the old Cherry clears.  I am going to have to find my old SGI Granite and compare, I think this board will acquit itself nicely.  I realize that this started off as gamer oriented hardware, but for someone who spends 60-70 hours a week behind a keyboard for a living and then stays behind it even more because I'm a nerd, this is great.  My fingers are so very happy right now.  Whatever's used for damping in the Bobas is accomplishing the task in a great, inobtrusive manner - as I've mentioned before, I've never met an o-ring I liked, but the feels of these switches is excellent.  I would actually be interested to try this board up against something like a new Matias Quiet Pro, as that would be its obvious competition.

One question - is there a ready source for ultra-stiff springs?  I think I would like to do what Cherry did back in the day and put a stiffer spring in the space bar switch.  I want to say it was a grey switch there in a board with clears, and I'm used to that feel having used it for 10 years now.

Again, thanks to all for following along, and especially to @saltimate @Maledicted and @HungerMechanic for pushing the Bobas - at this point it's going to take a lot to impress me beyond these switches.  I think the only question at this point is do I keep the switches I have or try the 68g springs when they come in.  I'm a really happy camper right now.
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 May 2021, 19:58:17 by N8N »
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 03 May 2021, 19:56:04 »
As for the combo of the Bobas and the GMMK - well, it looks, feels, and sounds pure class.  Yes, this is now an approximately $250 keyboard. (yikes!)  It also accomplishes what I wanted to do with my Filco far better than that board ever did. 

One question - is there a ready source for ultra-stiff springs?  I think I would like to do what Cherry did back in the day and put a stiffer spring in the space bar switch.  I want to say it was a grey switch there in a board with clears, and I'm used to that feel having used it for 10 years now.

Again, thanks to all for following along, and especially to @Maledicted for pushing the Bobas - at this point it's going to take a lot to impress me beyond these switches.  I think the only question at this point is do I keep the switches I have or try the 68g springs when they come in.  I'm a really happy camper right now.
Awesome! :thumb:
Some of that is progress but some is also just how you assembled it.

Yes, you can get springs, I often usually use Novelkeys springs which I think are just discounted Sprit, there is also TX springs. Probably a few others.
You could also just order a switch sample pack that has a switch with a stiffer spring and pull a spring, then you get to experiment a bit and get a stiffer spring. This is my preferred way to get just a single spring as I often buy packs of various switches to try. Just beware Box and Alps springs will not work.

For your space bar, check and make sure the spacebar is straight, some are warped and can cause what you're seeing.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
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Costar model with browns
| GH60
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 03 May 2021, 20:08:00 »
Awesome! :thumb:
Some of that is progress but some is also just how you assembled it.

Yes, you can get springs, I often usually use Novelkeys springs which I think are just discounted Sprit, there is also TX springs. Probably a few others.
You could also just order a switch sample pack that has a switch with a stiffer spring and pull a spring, then you get to experiment a bit and get a stiffer spring. This is my preferred way to get just a single spring as I often buy packs of various switches to try. Just beware Box and Alps springs will not work.

For your space bar, check and make sure the spacebar is straight, some are warped and can cause what you're seeing.

Oddly the old WASD ABS bar looks like it's got a bit of curve to it and is working fine, whereas the new one looks great but sticks :/

I'm assuming it's just interference between the posts and the Cherry stabilizers.  A solveable problem, I just don't feel like I should be handling x-acto knives right now :)

This sounds silly, but I can seriously feel the switches breaking in as I'm typing these posts.  Which is fine...

I looked up NovelKeys and see that their springs are $10/100, that would be fine to get me the feel that I want but what do I do with the other 99 springs?  Sell them in 5-packs to people too cheap to buy two packs for a full size board? :P

Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 03 May 2021, 21:49:01 »
I looked up NovelKeys and see that their springs are $10/100, that would be fine to get me the feel that I want but what do I do with the other 99 springs?  Sell them in 5-packs to people too cheap to buy two packs for a full size board? :P
You're feeling the grease settle and yeah, you can feel it.

What to do with the rest is why I prefer switch packs, I don't wind up with 99 spare springs.  ;D
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
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Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 982
Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 03 May 2021, 22:35:15 »
So today my Bobas showed up.  These are the 62g ones, with the clear "RGB" tops.

THANK YOU.  These are perfect.  Super silent.  Quite tactile.  I may not need heavier springs in fact, although if they don't break in I may take this apart again and lube the switches.  I feel just enough scratchiness to be worth mentioning.  The /dev/tty caps look amazing too.  No pics yet because I still have some fine tuning to do.

I'm glad it worked out!

Cutting the pins off switches is routine by now, especially with 3-pin hotswap. Fortunately, the newest hotswap keyboards have 5-pin hotswap, so cutting of pins is no longer necessary with those.

Bent pins are also common, but many stores ship things properly.

U4 Bobas are great switches, but they do have inherent shuffling and friction inside because of the dampening and the tactility. The good news, as you've noticed, is that Bobas actually do become a little smoother and less resistant over time.

Silent tactiles have come a long way, and the Bobas are the most modern design. So you came in at the right time. Since you prefer higher weights and stiffness, you're in luck because that's easy. It's harder to make the U4 Boba softer and lighter, because there are limits, but there's nothing untowards about putting a 78 G spring or something in a Boba.

Thanks for reporting that the Bobas are quiet in a GMMK. Haven't tried that yet. They aren't quiet enough for me in a stock Rakk Lam Ang Pro, but they are pretty quiet in an Archon AK89.

I wish I could help you with your spacebar issue, but sadly I don't have experience in that regard. Hopefully someone can chime in if you post images. As for springs, you might want to buy a TX spring sampler. I wish I had, as it would have saved me money in the long-run.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 04 May 2021, 07:32:11 »
So today my Bobas showed up.  These are the 62g ones, with the clear "RGB" tops.

THANK YOU.  These are perfect.  Super silent.  Quite tactile.  I may not need heavier springs in fact, although if they don't break in I may take this apart again and lube the switches.  I feel just enough scratchiness to be worth mentioning.  The /dev/tty caps look amazing too.  No pics yet because I still have some fine tuning to do.

I'm glad it worked out!

Cutting the pins off switches is routine by now, especially with 3-pin hotswap. Fortunately, the newest hotswap keyboards have 5-pin hotswap, so cutting of pins is no longer necessary with those.

Bent pins are also common, but many stores ship things properly.

U4 Bobas are great switches, but they do have inherent shuffling and friction inside because of the dampening and the tactility. The good news, as you've noticed, is that Bobas actually do become a little smoother and less resistant over time.

Silent tactiles have come a long way, and the Bobas are the most modern design. So you came in at the right time. Since you prefer higher weights and stiffness, you're in luck because that's easy. It's harder to make the U4 Boba softer and lighter, because there are limits, but there's nothing untowards about putting a 78 G spring or something in a Boba.

Thanks for reporting that the Bobas are quiet in a GMMK. Haven't tried that yet. They aren't quiet enough for me in a stock Rakk Lam Ang Pro, but they are pretty quiet in an Archon AK89.

I wish I could help you with your spacebar issue, but sadly I don't have experience in that regard. Hopefully someone can chime in if you post images. As for springs, you might want to buy a TX spring sampler. I wish I had, as it would have saved me money in the long-run.

I'm quite honestly amazed.  I don't know if these are any more tactile than the dampened cream Alps in my Granite, but they are definitely significantly more quiet.  Could I go back in time and get a brand new board maybe that would be a more fair comparison, but unfortunately we can't do that.  Really the main sound I hear is a little swishy/scratchy noise as I type which I assume is the internals of the switches sliding against each other, and then the stabilized keys, now rather than being significantly quieter than the other keys have a very faint thock that the others do not, I assume again because of the stabilizers bottoming out before the key switch does.  In any case this is by far the quietest keyboard combo I've ever used, and the tactility is still great.

You're right, things have come a LONG way in the last few years apparently!  It's too bad this isn't a "mainstream" switch that you can just buy in a new Filco, Leopold, etc. keyboard like the typical MX Black/Blue/Brown, but it deserves to be.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 04 May 2021, 08:48:58 »
Haha, yes, the bane of my existence! That Leopolds and Varmilos don't come with Ergo Clears, Bobas, Jades, Durock Medium Tactiles, etc...!

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 04 May 2021, 10:23:09 »
Haha, yes, the bane of my existence! That Leopolds and Varmilos don't come with Ergo Clears, Bobas, Jades, Durock Medium Tactiles, etc...!

You laugh but a coworker was thinking she would buy her husband a new keyboard for his birthday and asked me what I was typing on and I had to explain...  yeah, you can't just go on amazon and buy this thing, it's a three piece deal, and each piece of the puzzle involved personal preference...

That said, this is what a board with MX browns or clears tries but fails to be.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 1906
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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 04 May 2021, 11:12:23 »
Congratulations on a board you like even more than your old Filco. I can't take credit for recommending Bobas, I have never tried them myself. I haven't found enough of a reason to try the more boutique MX tactiles, with my tastes.

You're right, things have come a LONG way in the last few years apparently!  It's too bad this isn't a "mainstream" switch that you can just buy in a new Filco, Leopold, etc. keyboard like the typical MX Black/Blue/Brown, but it deserves to be.

I think most of the best switches available are not commonly available in OEM boards, unfortunately. Are there even any boards that offer box jades yet? Clicky box boards are almost always box white, for some inexplicable reason. I think most people looking at companies like Filco and Leopold are probably still predominantly first time mechanical users who haven't even tried the 3 major switch types yet, much less have any inclination of which switches they may prefer, just like the gaming board brands ... just to a lesser degree. If Cherry switches sell, than those are what the big name OEMs will keep putting in their boards.

If you do use that new board for a period of time, and then use the SGI board for a period of time, and update this thread with your impressions, I may be motivated to give MX boutiques more of a chance.

I have a bunch of Matias boards you could try, if you're near Wisconsin. I think this V80 I'm using right now might be the only one that still has unmolested dampened tactiles in it though.

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #90 on: Wed, 05 May 2021, 06:49:32 »
Congratulations on a board you like even more than your old Filco. I can't take credit for recommending Bobas, I have never tried them myself. I haven't found enough of a reason to try the more boutique MX tactiles, with my tastes.

You're right, things have come a LONG way in the last few years apparently!  It's too bad this isn't a "mainstream" switch that you can just buy in a new Filco, Leopold, etc. keyboard like the typical MX Black/Blue/Brown, but it deserves to be.

I think most of the best switches available are not commonly available in OEM boards, unfortunately. Are there even any boards that offer box jades yet? Clicky box boards are almost always box white, for some inexplicable reason. I think most people looking at companies like Filco and Leopold are probably still predominantly first time mechanical users who haven't even tried the 3 major switch types yet, much less have any inclination of which switches they may prefer, just like the gaming board brands ... just to a lesser degree. If Cherry switches sell, than those are what the big name OEMs will keep putting in their boards.

If you do use that new board for a period of time, and then use the SGI board for a period of time, and update this thread with your impressions, I may be motivated to give MX boutiques more of a chance.

I have a bunch of Matias boards you could try, if you're near Wisconsin. I think this V80 I'm using right now might be the only one that still has unmolested dampened tactiles in it though.

I appreciate that but not even close - I'm just outside DC, near UMCP.  At this point I'm so busy I couldn't really do anything with this anyway, I didn't even play with the sticky keys last night :/  So far I'm enjoying this board however.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 07 May 2021, 16:01:51 »
So I have a dumb question.  I was able to remove and reinstall the stabilizers for my space bar and added a little lube to them as well as the outsides of the posts of the space bar.  Before doing so, I also ran a X-Acto chisel type blade over the keycap posts to make sure there were no little molding anomalies, but I don't think there are, I think the keycap posts are just dragging ever so slightly on the Cherry style stabilizers.  After doing this and working the space bar a few times, it is operating normally.  However, I am trying to do the same with the red numpad enter key, and I find that I'm in a corner - I cannot get the keyswitch out with the stabilizers (Cherry) in place, but I can't remove the stabilizer without removing the keyswitch.  Any help?  I'm thinking I may need to make or purchase a different switch puller; none of the ones I have will sneak in between the switch and stabilizer to hit the latches.

Am I thinking right?

Any advice appreciated, I can always put the grey enter keys back on but a) that's less awesome and b) if I want to experiment with different springs etc. or band-aid mod the stabilizers I'll need to pull that switch.  If anything, if I wanted to put heavier springs on only some keys, it would be the space bar first, then the rest of the stabilized keys second...

I'm still playing with this, I'm soooo close, I now have everything but one key working great and it looks awesome too.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 07 May 2021, 18:30:08 »
I cannot get the keyswitch out with the stabilizers (Cherry) in place, but I can't remove the stabilizer without removing the keyswitch.  Any help?  I'm thinking I may need to make or purchase a different switch puller; none of the ones I have will sneak in between the switch and stabilizer to hit the latches.

That's something I've seen on all 3 of my hot swap boards.
Switches were designed to settle into place in the plate then get soldered, hot swap (because it's a hack) actually changes this relationship and they now share alignment duties, which they were never designed for. The switches become over constrained, too many things pushing and tugging them this way and that in ways not designed for, this causes them to get twisted and wedged.

They can get stuck in the plate like you're experiencing or yank out every time to pull a keycap, and on light springs I've even seen the switches themselves bind up even without stabs or key cap installed. I have switches that work 100% perfect with my super light springs out of the board but no matter what switch I put into certain spots on the board they will occasionally bind, they work perfect anywhere else, just not those spots. It will work perfect in TAB, move it to UP arrow and it binds, move it over to F, works perfect again. You're not running such light springs so you have (a lot) less problems, but it's not you, it's the board, specifically the nature of hot swap. Tooling or pcb design may be aggravating the issue but it comes down to the hot swaps over constraining something not designed for it.

A better puller will help, but it also may not.
What I found was in most cases if a switch is stuck in the plate, move onto a different one and come back. If working on just one, set the puller down, move the board around then try again. Sometimes you just need to hold the tool in relation to the board just that teensy bit different and suddenly it pops out. Other times you can try multiple times and then you just gotta rip the darn thing out. It rarely does much if any damage to the switch, it's just the little teeth that grab the plate getting a little rounded off, they were probably a little too aggressive to begin with.


Glad you got your board dialed in, it will get there the rest of the way, just be a little more patient. Think of it this way, you're starting to see why the pre-builds are built how they are, getting this sort of feel and precision takes some effort.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
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Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #93 on: Sat, 08 May 2021, 08:30:15 »
So I figured it out, I was able to pull the switch with a right angle pick since I couldn't get a purpose made keyswitch puller in there.  I lubed everything but that one switch is still a little sticky - but everything else is fantastic.  Yeah, it would have been nice to have just bought a keyboard that was what I wanted already assembled, but that apparently wasn't an option!

As this is breaking in it's getting better however so I am assuming that I just need to keep using it, worst case I will disassemble again and investigate.  Space bar is perfect now after a couple hours of use (obviously that one gets more use than the numpad enter, although I do use that one at least once a day, when I unlock bitlocker in the morning)
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline blur410

  • Posts: 68
  • Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #94 on: Sat, 08 May 2021, 09:54:16 »
In my newest board I had the exact opposite problem, the plate doesn't grab onto the switches tight enough. Makes the switches too easy to remove. Sad to hear you dislike the XT layout though, would gladly take it off your hands if you don't want it. ;)
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical analog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre BKE MX Mount)-ACTIVE, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-SHELF, Focus 2001 (Alps White)-SHELF, Unidentified Vintage MX Black Board-SHELF

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #95 on: Sat, 08 May 2021, 10:37:04 »
Went in to work today, here it is in semi final form and in its intended space.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline iri

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  • Location: 'Great' Britain
Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #96 on: Sat, 08 May 2021, 11:33:03 »
Went in to work today, here it is in semi final form and in its intended space.
Show Image


Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
Good looking keycaps, almost no extra footprint. Nice.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline N8N

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  • Posts: 791
Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #97 on: Sat, 08 May 2021, 17:02:13 »
Went in to work today, here it is in semi final form and in its intended space.
Show Image


Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk
Good looking keycaps, almost no extra footprint. Nice.

Yep, that was the point - well the no excess footprint, as you can see my mousing area is a little constrained, so vintage boards are right out for this workspace.

The keycaps were a bit of a luxury, but they are cool looking.  I just figured I'd been typing on the same caps for the better part of a decade, time to try something different?  I like them so far, they take a little getting used to, but I think I will end up keeping these, or at least only change them out for novelty.  Definitely my favorite caps appearance wise of all that I've had, with my vintage Wyse set being a close second.  Wyse might get the nod for practicality with the printing on the numpad.

It's a shame that this seems to be the only PBT MT3 profile set, or am I missing something?  All the others on the market seem to be ABS doubleshots despite Matt3o making what I thought were excellent arguments for using PBT...

https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/

I'm definitely not a MT3 fanboy (yet?) but I do think it's cool and delightfully retro; I'm still on the fence as to whether it's a real, functional improvement over cylindrical caps or just awesome, but I haven't noticed any detriment to my typing.  I think the Bobas are actually helping, although I'm typing slower as I'm currently doing something that I do every few years and am deliberately trying to work on my form and "unlearn" bad typing habits that I've picked up from e.g. typing AutoCAD commands left-handed.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline N8N

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #98 on: Sun, 09 May 2021, 10:53:28 »
Now I'm having bad thoughts... I have the Keychron C2 that I originally bought, as well as now I have the first set of Bobas that I ordered.  Am thinking that I should pick up a different but also cool set of keycaps and make that into another good board, although the devil on my shoulder says that I could pick up another barebones GMMK for $55 which would have a much sturdier feel and use the parts on that instead.  Or of course the prudent thing to do would be pack up all the leftovers and sell them.  Thoughts?
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: What keyboard do I want? I'm about a decade behind.
« Reply #99 on: Sun, 09 May 2021, 19:39:06 »
I have the Keychron C2 that I originally bought, as well as now I have the first set of Bobas that I ordered.  Am thinking that I should pick up a different but also cool set of keycaps and make that into another good board, although the devil on my shoulder says that I could pick up another barebones GMMK for $55 which would have a much sturdier feel and use the parts on that instead. 

Repeat after me:
"Hi, my name is N8N and I'm an addict"

Welcome to the hobby, empty your wallet at the door as you leave and we will see you again next week.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
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MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
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Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)