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Author Topic: Endurapro opinions etc.  (Read 6024 times)

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Offline tsv

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 10:28:04 »
First of all, hi! This is my first post :-)

I'm planning on getting a new keyboard soon and wanted a bit of advice.

I used to have a ThinkPad with a TrackPoint thingy which I loved. It was, in my opinion, the nicest way to use a "mouse". I was thinking of getting either a Model M, a Customizer or one of the Filco models. So, when I found the Endurapro I was delighted - a high quality "clicky" keyboard with a trackpoint.

Then I came across this board however and saw a lot of users complaining about the TrackPoint. I wanted to know if that was a general dislike of them, or if the one on the Endurapro is inferior to those on ThinkPads.

Cheers!
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Offline lal

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 10:34:38 »
It is very inferior.  I have a Thinkpad and had an Endurapro at one time.  It's a difference like night and day.  The pointing stick (it's not a Trackpoint(TM)) in the Endurapro plain sucks.

Edit: there are geekhackers that think the Endurapro stick is okay though.  Don't know what they're smoking ;)
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BS: Customizer, Model Ms; Alps: CSK-2101, FK-2002, AT-101 (SGI & Dell), MCK-860, FKBN87Z/EB; Cherry: Poker X, FKBN87MC/EB, WY60, G80-3000, G84-4100, TDV 5010

Offline wellington1869

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 10:43:00 »
like lal says, its night and day.  The thinkpad trackpoints are the best ever made. The endurapro trackpoint is among the worst ever made. :D
THey're completely different.
The endurapro trackpoint is 'useable', dont get me wrong. But if you're hoping its in any way like the thinkpad's trackpoint, you'll be *c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y* disappointed :)

that said, if all you want is a button to push the mouse cursor around, it'll do that fine. :)  But its no thinkpad trackpoint, just so you know. :)
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline tsv

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 10:46:36 »
Cheers for the replies. I think the way to go might be to wait for a Model M Space Saver to come up on eBay UK so the mouse is closer, or go for the Tenkeyless. Hmm...
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Offline wellington1869

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 10:52:12 »
Quote from: tsv;115267
Cheers for the replies. I think the way to go might be to wait for a Model M Space Saver to come up on eBay UK so the mouse is closer, or go for the Tenkeyless. Hmm...


I'm not sure the M space saver (I assume you're thinking of the M13 keyboard) feels like the thinkpad trackpoint - or does it? you could prolly get some info at clickykeyboards.com or maybe someone here can comment.  I've never owned one.
Since its ibm-made, maybe it uses genuine trackpoint?

The tenkeyless is always nice.
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline ch_123

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 10:56:46 »
Quote from: tsv;115267
Cheers for the replies. I think the way to go might be to wait for a Model M Space Saver to come up on eBay UK so the mouse is closer, or go for the Tenkeyless. Hmm...

Good luck with that, there only seem to be a handful of UK layout Space Savers out there, and they almost never appear. If they did, they'd be stupidly expensive. You'd be much better off getting one from the US.

As for the Endurapro - I used to have one for a while, the Trackpoint is useable if you turn the mouse settings up to the highest level and turn off pointer precision, but as has been pointed out before, they come nowhere close to a real trackpoint.

What about a Model M13? (ie. original IBM trackpoint Model M -same trackpoint as earlier Thinkpads)
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Offline huha

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 11:50:08 »
The Endurapro is quite a nice keyboard and I'd recommend it, but the integrated pointing device is not comparable to a Thinkpad's trackpoint. It's okay for very basic mousing tasks only. The resistance is too high and the cursor speed too low. Also, the buttons are way too hard to press. If you're looking for a thinkpad-style trackpoint, this is not for you.

The keyboard, however, is absolutely fantastic. I'd really recommend getting one or a Unicomp Space Saver. Filcos aren't bad, but they're using the clearly less fun Cherry switches; typing feel on a Unicomp is still paramount in my opinion. Plus, they're comparatively inexpensive.

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline lal

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 12:08:13 »
Quote from: huha;115298
Filcos aren't bad, but they're using the clearly less fun Cherry switches;


...or the NO fun XM bastard ALPS.  Or the huge fun but still less then buckling spring Fukka ALPS.

Quote

 typing feel on a Unicomp is still paramount in my opinion. Plus, they're comparatively inexpensive.


Full ACK.  If they would only do a completely black tenkeyless...
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BS: Customizer, Model Ms; Alps: CSK-2101, FK-2002, AT-101 (SGI & Dell), MCK-860, FKBN87Z/EB; Cherry: Poker X, FKBN87MC/EB, WY60, G80-3000, G84-4100, TDV 5010

Offline wellington1869

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 12:15:57 »
yea, despite all the issues, my endurapro remains my daily driver and its the one board i've constantly returned to, during my keyboard experimentations.
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline bigpook

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 12:31:55 »
the fukkas come the closest to bs keys for me. but nothing can really compete with my '94 lexmark spacesaver. nothing.
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HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline tsv

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 12:43:56 »
Quote from: wellington1869;115269
I'm not sure the M space saver (I assume you're thinking of the M13 keyboard) feels like the thinkpad trackpoint - or does it? you could prolly get some info at clickykeyboards.com or maybe someone here can comment.  I've never owned one.
Since its ibm-made, maybe it uses genuine trackpoint?

The tenkeyless is always nice.


I was actually meaning the standard Model M without the numpad, but that keyboard is one I hadn't seen before and very promising, thank you!


Quote from: ch_123;115271
Good luck with that, there only seem to be a handful of UK layout Space Savers out there, and they almost never appear. If they did, they'd be stupidly expensive. You'd be much better off getting one from the US.


Thanks, yeah I don't particularly mind the layout, and by eBay UK I really just meant any eBay that will ship to the UK :-)


Anyone care to comment further on the M13?
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Offline Rajagra

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 12:59:59 »
Ragnarock was selling a M13 recently at a bargain price, I wonder if he still has it?
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Offline tsv

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 13:28:50 »
Thanks for the help all, decided to take the plunge and grab that M13 from eBay! Have a slightly more empty wallet but hopefully it'll be worth it :-S
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Offline wellington1869

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 06 September 2009, 14:41:59 »
Quote from: tsv;115325
Thanks for the help all, decided to take the plunge and grab that M13 from eBay! Have a slightly more empty wallet but hopefully it'll be worth it :-S


if it has true trackpoint, its doubly worth it :)
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"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lowpoly

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 07 September 2009, 05:41:35 »
Quote from: huha;115298
The resistance is too high and the cursor speed too low.
A driver would help with that. But there probably isn't any?

In this case it looks more like a driver issue, not a problem with the hardware itself.

Of course, a driver will do nothing for bad buttons.
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Offline huha

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 07 September 2009, 05:51:38 »
Quote from: lowpoly;115449
A driver would help with that. But there probably isn't any?

In this case it looks more like a driver issue, not a problem with the hardware itself.

Of course, a driver will do nothing for bad buttons.


It does look like old technology. Cursor speed is fine when considering working with an 800x600 screen, but it's just no fun when using it with 3360x1050 or the like.
Pressure requirements for accelerating the cursor to its full speed are too high as well, so it's only a partial driver issue. I could crank up mouse speed, but that would conflict with my connected mouse ... why can't windows have separate controls for each connected device?

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline lowpoly

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Endurapro opinions etc.
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 07 September 2009, 05:54:41 »
Quote from: huha;115450
I could crank up mouse speed, but that would conflict with my connected mouse ... why can't windows have separate controls for each connected device?

-huha

That's where the driver would help.
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Offline InSanCen

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« Reply #17 on: Tue, 08 September 2009, 19:40:14 »
Quote from: Rajagra;115319
Ragnarock was selling a M13 recently at a bargain price, I wonder if he still has it?


Nope, I have dibs on that when he's back from Holiday... Sorry!
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Currently Using :- IBM M13 1996, Black :
Currently Own :- 1391406 1989 & 1990 : AT Model F 1985 : Boscom 122 (Black) : G80-3000 : G80-1800 (x2) : Wang 724 : G81-8000LPBGB (Card Reader, MY) : Unitek : AT102W : TVS Gold :
Project\'s :- Wang 724 Pink-->White Clicky : USB Model M : IBM LPFK :
Pointing stuff :- Logitech MX-518 : I-One Lynx R-15 Trackball : M13 Nipple : Microsoft Basic Optical\'s :
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