[IC] GMK modifiers kit

[tinlong117]

Got a quote for this set - they said it should be around €28 for 250 sets.

Suggestions?

[SpAmRaY]

What's a moggle?

[StylinGreymon]

Isn't it a creature from Final Fantasy?

[SpAmRaY]

this is what google comes up with

[tinlong117]

What's a moggle?

moggle kit

[infiniti]

What's a moggle?

Source: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Adapter_kit#Moogle_kit

A moogle kit is an adapter kit that complements keys from vintage keyboard so that they fit onto a modern keyboard with 1.25 units wide modifier keys, such as Windows keys.

A typical moogle kit contains modifiers for the bottom row and a space bar. It is common for them to also contain a caps lock key with a centered stem (as opposed to off-center stem) and a 2.75 wide right shift key, even though not all users may need them.

The original moogle kits were designed to allow the use of Cherry doubleshot ABS keys (harvested off a cheap keyboard in the Cherry G80 series) on a modern Filco Majestouch. Moogle kits have also been made Dolch and Wyse PCE.

The term "moogle kit" is named after the Geekhack user who first proposed it: Moogle Stiltzkin. A "Moogle" is a type of creature that appear in several games by Square Enix, such as the Final Fantasy series.[1]

The term "moogle kit" (MOOGLEWHITE and MOOGLEBLACK) had been first introduced by 7bit as order-IDs for the Round 3 group buy in early 2011.

[SpAmRaY]

What's a moggle?

Source: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Adapter_kit#Moogle_kit

A moogle kit is an adapter kit that complements keys from vintage keyboard so that they fit onto a modern keyboard with 1.25 units wide modifier keys, such as Windows keys.

A typical moogle kit contains modifiers for the bottom row and a space bar. It is common for them to also contain a caps lock key with a centered stem (as opposed to off-center stem) and a 2.75 wide right shift key, even though not all users may need them.

The original moogle kits were designed to allow the use of Cherry doubleshot ABS keys (harvested off a cheap keyboard in the Cherry G80 series) on a modern Filco Majestouch. Moogle kits have also been made Dolch and Wyse PCE.

The term "moogle kit" is named after the Geekhack user who first proposed it: Moogle Stiltzkin. A "Moogle" is a type of creature that appear in several games by Square Enix, such as the Final Fantasy series.[1]

The term "moogle kit" (MOOGLEWHITE and MOOGLEBLACK) had been first introduced by 7bit as order-IDs for the Round 3 group buy in early 2011.

I know what a moogle is but this thread is for a moggle

[bazh]

What's a moggle?

look at his avatar :v

[infiniti]

What's a moggle?

Source: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Adapter_kit#Moogle_kit

A moogle kit is an adapter kit that complements keys from vintage keyboard so that they fit onto a modern keyboard with 1.25 units wide modifier keys, such as Windows keys.

A typical moogle kit contains modifiers for the bottom row and a space bar. It is common for them to also contain a caps lock key with a centered stem (as opposed to off-center stem) and a 2.75 wide right shift key, even though not all users may need them.

The original moogle kits were designed to allow the use of Cherry doubleshot ABS keys (harvested off a cheap keyboard in the Cherry G80 series) on a modern Filco Majestouch. Moogle kits have also been made Dolch and Wyse PCE.

The term "moogle kit" is named after the Geekhack user who first proposed it: Moogle Stiltzkin. A "Moogle" is a type of creature that appear in several games by Square Enix, such as the Final Fantasy series.[1]

The term "moogle kit" (MOOGLEWHITE and MOOGLEBLACK) had been first introduced by 7bit as order-IDs for the Round 3 group buy in early 2011.

I know what a moogle is but this thread is for a moggle

whoa...didn't notice that  ) )

[riotonthebay]

If you are including 1.5x mods and a 1.75x r-shift in the kit (it looks like it from the OP?) it would be great to include the 1x Fn and 2 1x blanks as well. Otherwise just get rid of that stuff for a cheaper kit.

[lightsout714]

I am interested in this.

[boost]

I'm down

[digi]

How much more to put the stepped-windowed caps lock back in?

[jdcarpe]

wtf, ISO enter but no ANSI? How much for all the keys shown, even the ones with red Xs through them?

[SpAmRaY]

wtf, ISO enter but no ANSI?

Maybe that's why its called a moggle and not a moogle.

[digi]

wtf, ISO enter but no ANSI?

Maybe that's why its called a moggle and not a moogle.

lol, some new **** right der.

[lightsout714]

Is the enter something usually needing to be sourced? The one I got from a G81 was the right size.

[SpAmRaY]

Is this set going to be BoW?

[whiskytango]

Is the enter something usually needing to be sourced? The one I got from a G81 was the right size.

enter key on used DS is usually the most shiny in my experience. Having a fresh one would be nice

it also needs space bars, 6.25 and 7x

[lightsout714]

Is the enter something usually needing to be sourced? The one I got from a G81 was the right size.

enter key on used DS is usually the most shiny in my experience. Having a fresh one would be nice

it also needs space bars, 6.25 and 7x

Thats true did not consider used.

Is this set going to be BoW?

I was assuming WoB for some reason. Clarification would be good.

[IvanIvanovich]

I think the set as I had it... the unedited version of the above was something like 40€ or about $55 which also included spacebars. Some of those keys are probably not strictly necessary though.
I think windowed keys should be made since the don't really exist in black or at least are wholly impractical to find. Keeping the lower MOQ is easy with windowed key if you keep them in even numbers. Just do 2 legend style like the lock icon and the upside down shift arrow. This way each set could also potentially cover 2 keyboards like 1 winkey ANSI and 1 winkeyless ISO for example. I would also keep the Fn key and 2 1x1 row B blanks and add 6.25 and 7 spacebar.

Having a clear first shot instead of windowed keys would also be very cool. While I think they can do it technically I have asked them about it several times and never have gotten an answer on it.

[HoffmanMyster]

WoB or Dolch mod colors?  Hard to tell.  I might be interested, depending how it shapes up.

[LechnerDE]

It's GMK, so yeah I am interested!

What color are we talking about by the way

[jufa]

interested if the kit include windowed, 1.5x mods and a 1.75x r-shift, 7x spacebar

[fknraiden]

Yes. I very much want this set. I'd even be down to put in a couple extra orders to meet moq.

[epzy]

Meh, I wanted the MOGGLE kit not the Moogle kit, why tin, whyyyyyyy. :/

[SpAmRaY]

Meh, I wanted the MOGGLE kit not the Moogle kit, why tin, whyyyyyyy. :/

I think a mod did that.

[tinlong117]

Meh, I wanted the MOGGLE kit not the Moogle kit, why tin, whyyyyyyy. :/

I think a mod did that.

Damn.

[tinlong117]

Is this set going to be BoW?

I can do both BoW and WoB.

[SpAmRaY]

Is this set going to be BoW?

I can do both BoW and WoB.

Just do a whole BoW set

[bazh]

can we do White on Blue :v

[ideus]

In for a WoB set. I suggest to add FN keys in 1u and 1.25u.

[tinlong117]

can we do White on Blue :v

VVHAT?

[bazh]

for mix&match, maybe :v

[berserkfan]

I finally noticed that this post was made in the early hours of April 1.

[cphead]

I finally noticed that this post was made in the early hours of April 1.

Hehehehehehehheheheh. That flawless mockup pic though

[Paranoid]

interested in the exact set of the OP

[billnye]

Very interested if it comes with ANSI enter!

[yicaoyimu]

In for a WoB set. I suggest to add FN keys in 1u and 1.25u.

Just do a whole BoW set

+1 for complete WoB/BoW set.

[Halvar]

Meh, I wanted the MOGGLE kit not the Moogle kit, why tin, whyyyyyyy. :/

I think a mod did that.

Really? What sense would that make? Whatever this is, it's definitely not (only) a Moogle kit.

I'm in for one or two of these of course.

[quochung1989]

Very interested in BoW because i have Vintage Cherry Double Shot BoW keycaps

[samwisekoi]

I finally noticed that this post was made in the early hours of April 1.

This is going to take forever to sort out across all of the threads started on or around April Fool's Day.

Also, Interested in WoB 1.25 text mods plus 6.25 and 7.00 spacebars.

(And the Unicomp SSSK, announced on the 32nd hour of April 1st.  Eight hours late is on-time for Unicomp.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Mooby]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

[jdcarpe]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

So what exactly is a standard moogle? Different group buys have included various different keycaps, depending on who runs them and for which set they are offering compatibility.

[ideus]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

So what exactly is a standard moogle? Different group buys have included various different keycaps, depending on who runs them and for which set they are offering compatibility.

It is very easy to see there is no such thing, like an standard moogle, but I think he/she is referring to the more common breed.

[SpAmRaY]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

So what exactly is a standard moogle? Different group buys have included various different keycaps, depending on who runs them and for which set they are offering compatibility.

It is very easy to see there is no such thing, like an standard moogle, but I think he/she is referring to the more common breed.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN

[jdcarpe]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

So what exactly is a standard moogle? Different group buys have included various different keycaps, depending on who runs them and for which set they are offering compatibility.

It is very easy to see there is no such thing, like an standard moogle, but I think he/she is referring to the more common breed.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN

That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.

[CPTBadAss]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN

That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.

That's why there's a billion links before it saying read this first. Can you find me a proper picture of a Moogle and Tsangan then? I couldn't find one to put in that thread.

[esoomenona]

It would depend on what set we're building a moogle for, before we can determine what keys are necessary to complete the set. So until someone says the sets that we're building them for, this conversation is unnecessarily winded.

[whiskytango]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

I was thinking about this too. The whole point of a moogle is to adapt an older key set to use modern, widely available boards. Just throwing this out as an idea: I am wondering if it would have the best chance to meet MOQ if you strip it down to only the keys necessary to get a functional ANSI set. Think only the keys that you need to make a donor Cherry DS set work. Should include ANSI enter because some of the Cherry POS keyboards have DS keys but ISO style enter keys. Should also include shift keys because the Cherry 1800 has short right shift. And of course it should include a full touch caps lock because many Cherry used sets only come with stepped which most ANSI boards cannot handle. Then include a normal ANSI bottom row (1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar).

I realize this does not meet everyone's needs (including my own), but it will be cheaper, maybe cheap enough to gain enough popular support to meet 250 MOQ without people having to buy four sets each. And hopefully it won't take 6 months to get up to 250 orders either. Let's face it, reaching MOQ has been an issue because of the expense of GMK sets. Maybe to get to MOQ the set will need to be cheaper and more mainstream is all I am suggesting. My $0.02

[ideus]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

I was thinking about this too. The whole point of a moogle is to adapt an older key set to use modern, widely available boards. Just throwing this out as an idea: I am wondering if it would have the best chance to meet MOQ if you strip it down to only the keys necessary to get a functional ANSI set. Think only the keys that you need to make a donor Cherry DS set work. Should include ANSI enter because some of the Cherry POS keyboards have DS keys but ISO style enter keys. Should also include shift keys because the Cherry 1800 has short right shift. And of course it should include a full touch caps lock because many Cherry used sets only come with stepped which most ANSI boards cannot handle. Then include a normal ANSI bottom row (1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar).

I realize this does not meet everyone's needs (including my own), but it will be cheaper, maybe cheap enough to gain enough popular support to meet 250 MOQ without people having to buy four sets each. And hopefully it won't take 6 months to get up to 250 orders either. Let's face it, reaching MOQ has been an issue because of the expense of GMK sets. Maybe to get to MOQ the set will need to be cheaper and more mainstream is all I am suggesting. My $0.02

I suggest to add a centered stem caps lock to the mix, either full touch or stepped.

[jdcarpe]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN

That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.

That's why there's a billion links before it saying read this first. Can you find me a proper picture of a Moogle and Tsangan then? I couldn't find one to put in that thread.

I'm not criticizing you!

Like esoomenona said, the definition of a moogle kit would depend on which set the moogle is aiming toward compatibility. The basic idea of a moogle is to make a vintage set compatible with a modern keyboard, but there are options which depend on the set, and what people are requesting, such as language support, etc.

I was thinking about this too. The whole point of a moogle is to adapt an older key set to use modern, widely available boards. Just throwing this out as an idea: I am wondering if it would have the best chance to meet MOQ if you strip it down to only the keys necessary to get a functional ANSI set. Think only the keys that you need to make a donor Cherry DS set work. Should include ANSI enter because some of the Cherry POS keyboards have DS keys but ISO style enter keys. Should also include shift keys because the Cherry 1800 has short right shift. And of course it should include a full touch caps lock because many Cherry used sets only come with stepped which most ANSI boards cannot handle. Then include a normal ANSI bottom row (1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar).

I realize this does not meet everyone's needs (including my own), but it will be cheaper, maybe cheap enough to gain enough popular support to meet 250 MOQ without people having to buy four sets each. And hopefully it won't take 6 months to get up to 250 orders either. Let's face it, reaching MOQ has been an issue because of the expense of GMK sets. Maybe to get to MOQ the set will need to be cheaper and more mainstream is all I am suggesting. My $0.02

This is a damn good idea.

[SpAmRaY]

Still my vote is for a new black on white set.

[lightsout714]

Interested in a standard moogle adapterkit. If this set gets to big and expensive I'll wait for a better opportunity.

I was thinking about this too. The whole point of a moogle is to adapt an older key set to use modern, widely available boards. Just throwing this out as an idea: I am wondering if it would have the best chance to meet MOQ if you strip it down to only the keys necessary to get a functional ANSI set. Think only the keys that you need to make a donor Cherry DS set work. Should include ANSI enter because some of the Cherry POS keyboards have DS keys but ISO style enter keys. Should also include shift keys because the Cherry 1800 has short right shift. And of course it should include a full touch caps lock because many Cherry used sets only come with stepped which most ANSI boards cannot handle. Then include a normal ANSI bottom row (1.25 mods and 6.25 spacebar).

I realize this does not meet everyone's needs (including my own), but it will be cheaper, maybe cheap enough to gain enough popular support to meet 250 MOQ without people having to buy four sets each. And hopefully it won't take 6 months to get up to 250 orders either. Let's face it, reaching MOQ has been an issue because of the expense of GMK sets. Maybe to get to MOQ the set will need to be cheaper and more mainstream is all I am suggesting. My $0.02

I think you basically hit what a moogle is, or at least how it started.  I think this pic is very close. Don't think the backspace is necessary though. Not sure how the "\" is affected on ANSI sets with the iso enter.

[ideus]

Still my vote is for a new black on white set.

That may be a little expensive if you consider many of us already have full WoB sets but no bottom rows for ANSIs. All we want is a cost effective way to get those set to fit our current boards.

[SpAmRaY]

Still my vote is for a new black on white set.

That may be a little expensive if you consider many of us already have full WoB sets but no bottom rows for ANSIs. All we want is a cost effective way to get those set to fit our current boards.

Well I would rather spend $120 for a complete set than $50 on a bottom row.

But I understand where others may not be able to or may not want to just sharing my opinion.

[ideus]

Still my vote is for a new black on white set.

That may be a little expensive if you consider many of us already have full WoB sets but no bottom rows for ANSIs. All we want is a cost effective way to get those set to fit our current boards.

Well I would rather spend $120 for a complete set than $50 on a bottom row.

But I understand where others may not be able to or may not want to just sharing my opinion.

Mm, maybe you are right. Let's see where this goes, and the next Ivan's GB.

[berserkfan]

I finally noticed that this post was made in the early hours of April 1.

This is going to take forever to sort out across all of the threads started on or around April Fool's Day.

Also, Interested in WoB 1.25 text mods plus 6.25 and 7.00 spacebars.

(And the Unicomp SSSK, announced on the 32nd hour of April 1st.  Eight hours late is on-time for Unicomp.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi

8 hours late is early by Unicomp standards. These guys' brains are still stuck in the 1980s.

[Mooby]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN

That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.

That's why there's a billion links before it saying read this first. Can you find me a proper picture of a Moogle and Tsangan then? I couldn't find one to put in that thread.

Here you go (at last the red crosses indicate what I meant):


You won't be able to cover every possible old cherry keycap set to fit every keyboard someone in this forum is using. And if you try stuff will get expensive.

[samwisekoi]

Still my vote is for a new black on white set.

That may be a little expensive if you consider many of us already have full WoB sets but no bottom rows for ANSIs. All we want is a cost effective way to get those set to fit our current boards.

+1

[CPTBadAss]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_NNN

That graphic is actually misleading. Moogle kits usually include variously Backspaces, Enters, Shifts, etc.

That's why there's a billion links before it saying read this first. Can you find me a proper picture of a Moogle and Tsangan then? I couldn't find one to put in that thread.

I'm not criticizing you!

Like esoomenona said, the definition of a moogle kit would depend on which set the moogle is aiming toward compatibility. The basic idea of a moogle is to make a vintage set compatible with a modern keyboard, but there are options which depend on the set, and what people are requesting, such as language support, etc.

Too late, already sobbing

(I'll add this to the SQSA OP)

[yicaoyimu]

I vote for WoB moogle. I know a way to get brand new WoB set, but whether or not I decide to get it depends on how easily I can get moogle kit for it. Complete set would be nice, but I know that's not gonna happen.

[jdcarpe]

Maybe separate little kits for people who want extra keys. I would like correct profile caps for Delete, End, and PgDn also.

[Halvar]

With WoB, I understand these sets are pretty common from Flynn's GB last year:



With this or the other common WoB keyboards as a base, I think tinlong's set + spacebars do make a lot of sense.

[lightsout714]

Maybe separate little kits for people who want extra keys. I would like correct profile caps for Delete, End, and PgDn also.

Yeah thats needed as well, doesn't bother me a ton but it would be nice to have the proper keys. But I would personally like to see this as cheap as possible though. Like others have said once the price gets to 50% or so of a full set we may as well just do complete sets.

[esoomenona]

Maybe separate little kits for people who want extra keys. I would like correct profile caps for Delete, End, and PgDn also.

JD, you act like you haven't seen what happens with GMK every time. People are greedy, and only take what they want. Little sets will NEVER make it through this ordeal.

[Halvar]

How about splitting this into a "cheap cheap basic Moogle set" and an "I will help you out if you will help me out Pro set"

The cheap set could reach MOQ because it's cheap and unavoidable and everyone will want two of it, the Pro set could reach MOQ because the different needs of different people add up.   

Cheap Cheap Basic Moogle:
- 1x center stemmed caps lock
- 1x Moogle bottom row of Filco-compatible 1,25 modifiers (2xCtrl, 2x Alt, 2x Win, 1x Menu)
- 1x 2,74u righthand Shift (for 1800)
- 1x 6,25u space bar

This basic set is enough to convert most BuW vintage sets to Filco tenkeyless standard (for 1800 sets you have to be willing to live with some wrong profiles in the nav cluster). 

IWHYOIYWHMO Pro Set contains:
- Tsangan bottom row of 1,5/1.0 modifiers (2x 1.5u Ctrl, 2x 1.5u Alt, 1x 1u Win, 1x 1u Menu)
- 7u space bar
- center stemmed caps lock (so those who are only interested in Tsangan don't necessarily need the basic kit for just one cap)
- 1x ISO-to-ANSI set: 2.25u left Shift, 2.25u Enter, 1.5u backslash/verticalbar
- 1x ANSI-to-ISO set: 1.25u left Shift, 2x 1u blank (R3, R4), 1x ISO Return
- 1x 1800-to-Filco TKL set: 1 each of Delete, End, PgDn,
- 1x 1800-to-Filco-Full set: Numpad-<minus>, 2u-Numpad-<0>, 1ux2u-Numpad-<+>

[lightsout714]

I like where your going with that Halvar. Now let the debate begin on what belongs in the pro set

[Candyflip]

How about splitting this into a "cheap cheap basic Moogle set" and an "I will help you out if you will help me out Pro set"

The cheap set could reach MOQ because it's cheap and unavoidable and everyone will want two of it, the Pro set could reach MOQ because the different needs of different people add up.   

Cheap Cheap Basic Moogle:
- 1x center stemmed caps lock
- 1x Moogle bottom row of Filco-compatible 1,25 modifiers (2xCtrl, 2x Alt, 2x Win, 1x Menu)
- 1x 2,74u righthand Shift (for 1800)
- 1x 6,25u space bar

This basic set is enough to convert most BuW vintage sets to Filco tenkeyless standard (for 1800 sets you have to be willing to live with some wrong profiles in the nav cluster). 

IWHYOIYWHMO Pro Set contains:
- Tsangan bottom row of 1,5/1.0 modifiers (2x 1.5u Ctrl, 2x 1.5u Alt, 1x 1u Win, 1x 1u Menu)
- 7u space bar
- center stemmed caps lock (so those who are only interested in Tsangan don't necessarily need the basic kit for just one cap)
- 1x ISO-to-ANSI set: 2.25u left Shift, 2.25u Enter, 1.5u backslash/verticalbar
- 1x ANSI-to-ISO set: 1.25u left Shift, 2x 1u blank (R3, R4), 1x ISO Return
- 1x 1800-to-Filco TKL set: 1 each of Delete, End, PgDn,
- 1x 1800-to-Filco-Full set: Numpad-<minus>, 2u-Numpad-<0>, 1ux2u-Numpad-<+>

I like this idea about separating it into two sets.

[esoomenona]

More like "I want what I want, but I'm not willing to help anyone else out when I don't need all those extra caps" Pro set.

[whiskytango]

How about splitting this into a "cheap cheap basic Moogle set" and an "I will help you out if you will help me out Pro set"

The cheap set could reach MOQ because it's cheap and unavoidable and everyone will want two of it, the Pro set could reach MOQ because the different needs of different people add up.   

Cheap Cheap Basic Moogle:
- 1x center stemmed caps lock
- 1x Moogle bottom row of Filco-compatible 1,25 modifiers (2xCtrl, 2x Alt, 2x Win, 1x Menu)
- 1x 2,74u righthand Shift (for 1800)
- 1x 6,25u space bar

This basic set is enough to convert most BuW vintage sets to Filco tenkeyless standard (for 1800 sets you have to be willing to live with some wrong profiles in the nav cluster). 

IWHYOIYWHMO Pro Set contains:
- Tsangan bottom row of 1,5/1.0 modifiers (2x 1.5u Ctrl, 2x 1.5u Alt, 1x 1u Win, 1x 1u Menu)
- 7u space bar
- center stemmed caps lock (so those who are only interested in Tsangan don't necessarily need the basic kit for just one cap)
- 1x ISO-to-ANSI set: 2.25u left Shift, 2.25u Enter, 1.5u backslash/verticalbar
- 1x ANSI-to-ISO set: 1.25u left Shift, 2x 1u blank (R3, R4), 1x ISO Return
- 1x 1800-to-Filco TKL set: 1 each of Delete, End, PgDn,
- 1x 1800-to-Filco-Full set: Numpad-<minus>, 2u-Numpad-<0>, 1ux2u-Numpad-<+>

I can get behind this. +1 this idea

[Halvar]

@esoomenona: I don't understand what you mean. You don't think the basic kit has the most popular stuff? Or you disapprove of the idea of a basic set?





 

[esoomenona]

@esoomenona: I don't understand what you mean. You don't think the basic kit has the most popular stuff? Or you disapprove of the idea of a basic set?

I'm saying most people aren't going to help others to get help themselves. They're not willing to spend a dollar more than the cheapest amount they can.

[Halvar]

They are not spending a dollar more than the cheapest amount they can. They can either get the pro kit or not get it. 

[esoomenona]

They are not spending a dollar more than the cheapest amount they can. They can either get the pro kit or not get it. 

If it were only so simple. But that's not how they see it. You see, there are extra caps there that they don't want or need. And if those weren't there, then the price would be cheaper for them. Why should they spend more money to pay for caps they don't need?

[lightsout714]

More like "I want what I want, but I'm not willing to help anyone else out when I don't need all those extra caps" Pro set.

How about there is more in life than keyboards. Some of us only have so much cash to spend on non essentials like this. So a $50 moogle is kind of hard to swallow.

[Mooby]

How about splitting this into a "cheap cheap basic Moogle set" and an "I will help you out if you will help me out Pro set"

The cheap set could reach MOQ because it's cheap and unavoidable and everyone will want two of it, the Pro set could reach MOQ because the different needs of different people add up.   

Cheap Cheap Basic Moogle:
- 1x center stemmed caps lock
- 1x Moogle bottom row of Filco-compatible 1,25 modifiers (2xCtrl, 2x Alt, 2x Win, 1x Menu)
- 1x 2,74u righthand Shift (for 1800)
- 1x 6,25u space bar

This basic set is enough to convert most BuW vintage sets to Filco tenkeyless standard (for 1800 sets you have to be willing to live with some wrong profiles in the nav cluster). 

IWHYOIYWHMO Pro Set contains:
- Tsangan bottom row of 1,5/1.0 modifiers (2x 1.5u Ctrl, 2x 1.5u Alt, 1x 1u Win, 1x 1u Menu)
- 7u space bar
- center stemmed caps lock (so those who are only interested in Tsangan don't necessarily need the basic kit for just one cap)
- 1x ISO-to-ANSI set: 2.25u left Shift, 2.25u Enter, 1.5u backslash/verticalbar
- 1x ANSI-to-ISO set: 1.25u left Shift, 2x 1u blank (R3, R4), 1x ISO Return
- 1x 1800-to-Filco TKL set: 1 each of Delete, End, PgDn,
- 1x 1800-to-Filco-Full set: Numpad-<minus>, 2u-Numpad-<0>, 1ux2u-Numpad-<+>

I like this idea.

More like "I want what I want, but I'm not willing to help anyone else out when I don't need all those extra caps" Pro set.

How about there is more in life than keyboards. Some of us only have so much cash to spend on non essentials like this. So a $50 moogle is kind of hard to swallow.

I think it's not only hard to swallow, it makes no sense at all. 50$ is not far from a complete set of keycaps. I don't mind spending a dollar or two more even if I won't need those extra caps. But if this ends with spending 30$ extra for a set from which I'd only need about 30% of the caps then this whole groupbuy misses the point for me.

[esoomenona]

Which is why you guys will continue to go without these caps. Plain and simple.

[lightsout714]

Which is why you guys will continue to go without these caps. Plain and simple.

So we should all pay top dollar for the few guys that want every possibility under the sun? Seems odd that you would expect people to do that.

[Halvar]

They are not spending a dollar more than the cheapest amount they can. They can either get the pro kit or not get it. 

If it were only so simple. But that's not how they see it. You see, there are extra caps there that they don't want or need. And if those weren't there, then the price would be cheaper for them. Why should they spend more money to pay for caps they don't need?

Well, if that exact set that they want is popular enough to warrant an extra GB and reach MOQ alone then they are perfectly right!

The Pro set can only work if it is believable that MOQ can only be reached when those people who want the keys in them join forces.

That's exactly the idea behind separating the popular from the less popular options. If you want only the most popular stuff you shouldn't have to pay an extra for other people's rarely needed specialties. If you want something special, you can still get it, although more expensive, by joining forces with people who want other less popular keys.

[Mooby]

Which is why you guys will continue to go without these caps. Plain and simple.

So we should all pay top dollar for the few guys that want every possibility under the sun? Seems odd that you would expect people to do that.

Exactly. And if you don't then be prepared to be called a greedy egoistic cheapskate.

[CK Briefs]

If there's a moq, you bet your ass that people will have to cooperate with a more fleshed-out set to appeal to more people, JUST to be able to have an opportunity to get GMK, let alone getting everything you want and nothing you don't.

[lightsout714]

If there's a moq, you bet your ass that people will have to cooperate with a more fleshed-out set to appeal to more people, JUST to be able to have an opportunity to get GMK, let alone getting everything you want and nothing you don't.

Can we do $25 tops on a basic moogle? I think at that price we should hit moq.

And mooby lol I agree.

[Broadmonkey]

I don't think you can just put a limit on the cost. A moogle kit is only a moogle kit if it serves the purpose well. If it only supplies half the required keys it's just... well...  pointless!

To be honest, there are so many incomplete BoW sets out there, that I feel this moogle kit will reach 250 orders with certainty. But it has to be well made and complete, not to reach moq but to make sense!
So the most important questions is: What incomplete/incompatible BoW keysets does people have right now? and what keyboards will it be used on?

[ideus]

I don't think you can just put a limit on the cost. A moogle kit is only a moogle kit if it serves the purpose well. If it only supplies half the required keys it's just... well...  pointless!

To be honest, there are so many incomplete BoW sets out there, that I feel this moogle kit will reach 250 orders with certainty. But it has to be well made and complete, not to reach moq but to make sense!
So the most important questions is: What incomplete/incompatible BoW keysets does people have right now? and what keyboards will it be used on?

This makes sense. You should consider to provide the caps needed to make vintage sets available to fit a modern ANSI layout in one set. That means bottom row (including full set of 1.25u modifiers and spacebar), plus caps lock, one 2.25u shift, at least. If you want to provide additional value an enter key will be welcome, because even when most sets already have it, it is shiny already, as we are talking about old vintage sets in ABS. An special color escape key will be also an added bonus, because as the enter key, it may be already shiny in a vintage set. And I think one escape key will not add much cost to the set, and a lot of value.


As it was stated already, a set like this is already on demand, as so many of us already have old WoB sets. I am typing in one now, and I really like to replace my current SP mods for actual cherries. If you remember when Ivan ran the purple set he included the option to get an old WoB set harvested from cherry point of sale terminal boards. Just with the people that bought that option there is already a fair market.

[IvanIvanovich]

Most needed keys for filling out the most common white/black sets people will have:
For Winkey 1800/7000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, 2.75 shift, row D profile delete/end/pg dn, 2 units vertical +, 2 units 0.
For MY 3000/8000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, fulltouch caps lock
For MX 8000: 2.25 enter, 1.5 \|, nav 6pack, cursors, function row, num lock/÷/×/-/+/numpad enter

Though... in the case of MX 8000 it's probably cheaper to source the function row and numpad keys needed from some other used set like a MY8000... in which case the 2.25 enter and 1.5 |\ key is taken care of as well. Possible same goes for some other keys in other cases as well.
It probably would be best to just have 1.25 mods, 1.5 mods, spacebars and full touch caps lock and keep it minimal. Certainly some other keys would be nice to have like Fn and 1x1 Win keys etc... but they aren't strictly necessary. Windowed keys would be a nice to have as they really don't exist in black but they all do need doubled up to keep the lower MOQ.

[ideus]

Most needed keys for filling out the most common white/black sets people will have:
For Winkey 1800/7000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, 2.75 shift, row D profile delete/end/pg dn, 2 units vertical +, 2 units 0.
For MY 3000/8000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, fulltouch caps lock
For MX 8000: 2.25 enter, 1.5 \|, nav 6pack, cursors, function row, num lock/÷/×/-/+/numpad enter

Though... in the case of MX 8000 it's probably cheaper to source the function row and numpad keys needed from some other used set like a MY8000... in which case the 2.25 enter and 1.5 |\ key is taken care of as well. Possible same goes for some other keys in other cases as well.
It probably would be best to just have 1.25 mods, 1.5 mods, spacebars and full touch caps lock and keep it minimal. Certainly some other keys would be nice to have like Fn and 1x1 Win keys etc... but they aren't strictly necessary. Windowed keys would be a nice to have as they really don't exist in black but they all do need doubled up to keep the lower MOQ.

You should listen to Ivan. He is one the most knowledgeable guys on cherry keyboards. Please take his advice.

[tinlong117]

basic set

wk set

wkl set

pro set

EVO SET


Thoughts?

p.s. I like my ghetto mockups.

[Broadmonkey]

If we start taking shiny keys into account then the list can be quite long as somebody might have a really shiny tab key, F4, numpad Enter, delete and so on. I think there is the must-haves and the nice-to-haves. But of course if the majority of sets come from the same supplier (which they do) and all has more or less the same usage/shine on specific keys then it might be a good idea.

Regarding the keyboards people use, most people want to cover their winkey TKL keyboard. A fairly large amount of people also want support for Winkeyless TKL. These are the two standard sets and both should always be catered for. This also adds the benefit of covering keyboards from manufactures like Razer, Corsair and CM storm since they like to mix in 1.5 unit modifiers for some reason (you might still miss the spacebar, but that is a manufacturing limitation)

Lastly the whole "why not just do a full set if it's going to be expensive anyway". If we do just that the next thing will be: "Now that we are doing a full set, why don't we do Dolch/Yolch/Handarbeit/CCnG etc" - and don't deny it, you know it's true!

[tinlong117]

Most needed keys for filling out the most common white/black sets people will have:
For Winkey 1800/7000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, 2.75 shift, row D profile delete/end/pg dn, 2 units vertical +, 2 units 0.
For MY 3000/8000: 1.25 or 1.5 mods, 6.25 or 7 spacebar, fulltouch caps lock
For MX 8000: 2.25 enter, 1.5 \|, nav 6pack, cursors, function row, num lock/÷/×/-/+/numpad enter

Though... in the case of MX 8000 it's probably cheaper to source the function row and numpad keys needed from some other used set like a MY8000... in which case the 2.25 enter and 1.5 |\ key is taken care of as well. Possible same goes for some other keys in other cases as well.
It probably would be best to just have 1.25 mods, 1.5 mods, spacebars and full touch caps lock and keep it minimal. Certainly some other keys would be nice to have like Fn and 1x1 Win keys etc... but they aren't strictly necessary. Windowed keys would be a nice to have as they really don't exist in black but they all do need doubled up to keep the lower MOQ.

You should listen to Ivan. He is one the most knowledgeable guys on cherry keyboards. Please take his advice.

HAHAHAHAHH.

[ideus]

basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)

Evo set: How much it would be?

[tinlong117]

basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)

Evo set: How much it would be?

should be around €30-33 WITHOUT blanks and windowed caps.

[lightsout714]

basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)

Evo set: How much it would be?

should be around €30-33 WITHOUT blanks and windowed caps.

Any idea how much the basic set will be?

Don't mean to be that guy but can we use anything besides the Win8 logo.

[Halvar]

Questions:

1) What about space bars?

2) Why are there four sets that include each other? Are they meant to be alternatives, and we decide before the GB which of them to try to get? We won't try to reach MOQ on two of them at the same time, right?

[jdcarpe]

basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)

Thoughts?

p.s. I like my ghetto mockups.

Your evo set needs the 1.5-unit backslash/pipe key, and take out everything that is in the base set. Then only do two options. Base set, and evo set.

[pasph]

basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)

Thoughts?

p.s. I like my ghetto mockups.

Your evo set needs the 1.5-unit backslash/pipe key, and take out everything that is in the base set. Then only do two options. Base set, and evo set.

+1 and spacebars

[Mooby]

basic set
(Attachment Link)
wk set
(Attachment Link)
wkl set
(Attachment Link)
pro set
(Attachment Link)
EVO SET
(Attachment Link)

Thoughts?

p.s. I like my ghetto mockups.

Your evo set needs the 1.5-unit backslash/pipe key, and take out everything that is in the base set. Then only do two options. Base set, and evo set.

+1 and spacebars

+1

[Halvar]

Whatever the sets will be -- I really hope this comes to life.

[ideus]

Are you gonna joint this with the windowed caps? It may save in shipment.

[UniClown]

Interested in BoW set.

[Candyflip]

Interested in BoW set.

Me too, beige moogle set with center caps please

[tinlong117]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0

I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.

[bazemk1979]

With WoB, I understand these sets are pretty common from Flynn's GB last year:

Show Image

With this or the other common WoB keyboards as a base, I think tinlong's set + spacebars do make a lot of sense.

Honestly also this is needed to complete the set:

- Full touch Caps
- 0 numberpad
- + numberpad
- x6 spacebar
- x7 spacebar

 and then the rest of the modifiers as OP presented......

That's the only way people that has that WOB set will make it usable for a full board either Korean or ANSI

[baldgye]

Miami coloured stepped caps lock!!!!!! ^^

[Pacifist]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0

I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.

dey got 150, but presumably shiny

[tinlong117]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0

I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.

dey got 150, but presumably shiny

He said 125-150, with 8-10 with missing keys. He never mentioned the condition.

Seriously - it will be great if we can merge the GB.

[Pacifist]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0

I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.

dey got 150, but presumably shiny

He said 125-150, with 8-10 with missing keys. He never mentioned the condition.

Seriously - it will be great if we can merge the GB.

tinnie u still in HK? Boards are in USA, we could definitely merge the GBs. Im sure the ones in the bags were backups that were never used and those 19 were all he had, so I think the ones he still has are shiny like in the other auction.

Did he ever respond to you?

[tinlong117]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57222.0

I just sent a message to the seller via Ebay/whatsoever, I will do this if they got around 100 sets doubleshots.

dey got 150, but presumably shiny

He said 125-150, with 8-10 with missing keys. He never mentioned the condition.

Seriously - it will be great if we can merge the GB.

tinnie u still in HK? Boards are in USA, we could definitely merge the GBs. Im sure the ones in the bags were backups that were never used and those 19 were all he had, so I think the ones he still has are shiny like in the other auction.

Did he ever respond to you?

No.

[lightsout714]

Shiny? Ehh. That sucks.

[tinlong117]

GB thread should be online soon. Both black on beige and white on black. ^^

[epzy]

GB thread should be online soon. Both black on beige and white on black. ^^

Nice! <3

[Halvar]

Yess!

[lightsout714]

GB thread should be online soon. Both black on beige and white on black. ^^

Do you have the sets nailed down as far as what actually will be included?

[tinlong117]

^waiting mod to approve my thread. So it might takes some time.

[lightsout714]

^waiting mod to approve my thread. So it might takes some time.

Ah I see I did not know there was an approval process.