[IC]TaiHao Keysets Colour Interest Check(UPDATED New add-on MOQ )

[GhostofHarry]

Although the sets are pretty cool to begin with, the bigger news here is ALPS.

There are no good options for new ALPS caps, and hunting down bits and pieces from old boards get frustrating fast.  You see a lot of wishing and complaining for group buys, and they rarely, if ever, succeed.  This is a very feasible product.  In fact, I think it could be better than the possibility of going a SP group buy because Tai Hao's limited offerings will keep the choices limited.

However, I worry it could go horribly wrong-- too many choices would lead to big problems.  Either nothing comes close enough to MOQ, or the group ends up having to buy a bunch of unwanted sets to meet MOQ, raising the price per unit.

Here's a thought-- a "rolling group buy".

We do one poll to decide two or three of the most popular colours, then do a group buy on them.  This focuses everyone on a small number of choices, and increases the odds of hitting MOQ.

Then in a couple months, we do it again-- new vote, new GB.  If demand for a colour scheme is satisfied in the first round, then it won't win the second round poll, letting people who wanted a different colour scheme get their day.  Conversely, if it turns out that some schemes are "perenniallly popular", they'll appear cycle after cycle.  Geekhackers NEVER get tired of Dolch

This is a good plan, similar to what berserkfan had discussed with me

The main problem is that, throughout these series of GB, the GB starter would be exhausted in cycles of processing orders and shipments.

What berserkfan had suggested was to involve a vendor which can provide services of sorting and shipping after GH volunteers have taken the orders and money from the community
We give vendor MOQ(so he can get products with relatively less MOQ hence higher flow of product for his shop), and some service charge (like $1 per set?)
while vendor do the hard work, collecting product, sorting, shipping.
Chinese vendors are favourable due to low manpower cost and as larger amount of products produced in china, it lowers the shipping cost from factory to the transit point that sorts our order

back to the alps keycaps

Taihao said that the colours of alps are more likely to be those of Cherry MX ones,
What they replied is that, those colours(generation 1-4) are the colours under mass production, and they offer lower price

If we hand in new designs to them, they will try to work out a sample and will start producing after confirmation


still waiting for the iso enter picture though

[GhostofHarry]

Although the sets are pretty cool to begin with, the bigger news here is ALPS.

There are no good options for new ALPS caps, and hunting down bits and pieces from old boards get frustrating fast.  You see a lot of wishing and complaining for group buys, and they rarely, if ever, succeed.  This is a very feasible product.  In fact, I think it could be better than the possibility of going a SP group buy because Tai Hao's limited offerings will keep the choices limited.

However, I worry it could go horribly wrong-- too many choices would lead to big problems.  Either nothing comes close enough to MOQ, or the group ends up having to buy a bunch of unwanted sets to meet MOQ, raising the price per unit.

Here's a thought-- a "rolling group buy".

We do one poll to decide two or three of the most popular colours, then do a group buy on them.  This focuses everyone on a small number of choices, and increases the odds of hitting MOQ.

Then in a couple months, we do it again-- new vote, new GB.  If demand for a colour scheme is satisfied in the first round, then it won't win the second round poll, letting people who wanted a different colour scheme get their day.  Conversely, if it turns out that some schemes are "perenniallly popular", they'll appear cycle after cycle.  Geekhackers NEVER get tired of Dolch

This is a good plan, similar to what berserkfan had discussed with me

The main problem of this cycle of GBs is that, through these series of GB, the GB starter would be exhausted in cycles of processing orders and shipments, and would end up quit holding GBs.

What berserkfan had suggested was to involve a vendor which can provide services of sorting and shipping after GH volunteers have taken the orders and money from the community
We give vendor MOQ(so he can get products with relatively less MOQ hence higher flow of product for his shop), and some service charge (like $1 per set?)
while vendor do the hard work, collecting product, sorting, shipping.
Chinese vendors are favourable due to low manpower cost and as larger amount of products produced in china, it lowers the shipping cost from factory to the transit point that sorts our order

back to the alps keycaps

Taihao said that the colours of alps are more likely to be those of Cherry MX ones,
What they replied is that, those colours(generation 1-4) are the colours under mass production, and they offer lower price

If we hand in new designs to them, they will try to work out a sample and will start producing after confirmation


still waiting for the iso enter picture though

[McWilloughby]

now waiting for the picture of the iso enter ( and info of alsps keycaps)

Awesome just to clarify, this isn't switching over to a purely alps GB right? There's still going to be MX keycaps available?

[GhostofHarry]

now waiting for the picture of the iso enter ( and info of alsps keycaps)

Awesome just to clarify, this isn't switching over to a purely alps GB right? There's still going to be MX keycaps available?

we are ordering MX

im just trying to ask for as much info as possible from taihao for everyone here
if ppl are interested in alps we can do it next round

[pasph]

Alps FTW
They also have the short (1,25u) left ISO shift?

[genkidama]

Oh god this starts to get very interesting. Hopefully the ISO Enter is right and we can get an ISO Kit. I'll keep a close eye on this!
Is there a lower price available if we hit MOQ 500 or does it stay the same with the two MOQs you have given in the first post?
How about ordering 2 Sets, do I need to pay the transportation fee for both or just once as they ship to the same place? I get that the tax for the sets will be paid for both respectively.

[GhostofHarry]

Oh god this starts to get very interesting. Hopefully the ISO Enter is right and we can get an ISO Kit. I'll keep a close eye on this!
Is there a lower price available if we hit MOQ 500 or does it stay the same with the two MOQs you have given in the first post?
How about ordering 2 Sets, do I need to pay the transportation fee for both or just once as they ship to the same place? I get that the tax for the sets will be paid for both respectively.

we could have discount for every 1k set we ordered (i think she is talking about a full set rather than tsangan or iso kit)
this is what the sales offered me

MOQ of a set that  they have been mass producing and in stock is 100
MOQ of a set that  they have been mass producing and out of stock is 300
MOQ of any new production (for example: new colour sets, tsangan, iso, stepped capslock of generation 1-3) is  500

For shipping, I am still worrying about this....
Im seeking help from chinese vendors to see if they can provide manpower to help with the GB(we add like $1 per set for service charge of them)
but as taihao replied me that their factory are in TW and transfering to china do not help us lowering the ultimate price due to import tax and shipping cost
not to mention about the difficulty to find a trustworthy vendor(its great pressure to handle everyone's money)
i am still thinking about any possible ways for me to ship things to ppl all around the world

so until i have confirmed about the shipping method, i cannot guarantee u about the transport fee
but i promise i will try my best to lower the part of this cost as much as possible

Alps FTW
They also have the short (1,25u) left ISO shift?

inquiring
but if they got iso enter, i think 1.25 shift will not be a big problem

[quake4mhg]

Thanks guys for the replies. voted

[riotonthebay]

I'd be very interested in a round of Alps keycaps.

[keymaster]

Will these be OEM profile?

[Zeal]

Will these be OEM profile?

Yes. Taihao also seems to have an even higher bottom row profile too.

[Pacifist]

Will these be OEM profile?

I do belive so

[bazemk1979]

Hey OP can you ask TH if they produce the Classic set with black legends instead of Olivetti, that's me assuming that the majority prefers the black legends instead of the blue ones.

[HairyBob]

Purple 4 lyfe.

[Pacifist]

Hey OP can you ask TH if they produce the Classic set with black legends instead of Olivetti, that's me assuming that the majority prefers the black legends instead of the blue ones.

Sure they can

500 MOQ

[CommonCurt]

Hey OP can you ask TH if they produce the Classic set with black legends instead of Olivetti, that's me assuming that the majority prefers the black legends instead of the blue ones.

Sure they can

500 MOQ

I would like it with black or blue legends, but I really prefer the Olivetti with blue.

[GhostofHarry]

ISO enter getto daze




is the right or the left one correct?

[Zeal]

ISO enter getto

(Attachment Link)


is this correct?

Looks like that^

[GhostofHarry]

ISO enter getto

(Attachment Link)


is this correct?

Show Image

Looks like that^

so i think we should go for the one on the left hand side?


btw  taihao do have 1.25 shift too

and the quote for a iso kit is 0.7 USD
i think with this price, we can merge the tsangan kit and iso kit together as one single set of add-on

i think this helps the 500 MOQ

[whiskytango]

ISO enter getto

(Attachment Link)


is this correct?

Show Image

Looks like that^

so i think we should go for the one on the left hand side?


btw  taihao do have 1.25 shift too

and the quote for a iso kit is 0.7 USD
i think with this price, we can merge the tsangan kit and iso kit together as one single set of add-on

i think this helps the 500 MOQ

Yeah, merging them together will help with MOQ definitely. What exactly is in the ISO kit? ALso, if they have 1.25 shift you should also include that in the tsangan.

Awesome work man. Thanks for your efforts here.

[GhostofHarry]

ISO enter getto

(Attachment Link)


is this correct?

Show Image

Looks like that^

so i think we should go for the one on the left hand side?


btw  taihao do have 1.25 shift too

and the quote for a iso kit is 0.7 USD
i think with this price, we can merge the tsangan kit and iso kit together as one single set of add-on

i think this helps the 500 MOQ

Yeah, merging them together will help with MOQ definitely. What exactly is in the ISO kit? ALso, if they have 1.25 shift you should also include that in the tsangan.

Awesome work man. Thanks for your efforts here.

ISO kit includes ISO enter, 1.25 shift  and 2 blank keys

I'm thinking shall we also add a 1.75 shift  into the add-on ....

So the add-on pack will now include
Tsangan kit   7x space 1.5x*2 alt and ctrl    With 1x*2 blank keys
ISO kit         ISO enter   1.25x shift   2 blank keys
Stepped capslock   
1.75 shift

And the above will be set as a add-on set beside of the normal 104 ANSI key set


What do u guys think?

[Pacifist]

At the cheap price of taihao just put everything into one package to hit MOQ super easy

[SSIPAK]

So its $14 for 104 Dolch keys?

[GhostofHarry]

So its $14 for 104 Dolch keys?

Yes u are correct

[GhostofHarry]

At the cheap price of taihao just put everything into one package to hit MOQ super easy

U spoke my mind 

[SSIPAK]

So its $14 for 104 Dolch keys?

Yes u are correct

Do you know how soon you will be able to start this GB? I am definitely buying more than one set!

[Pacifist]

we will hit MOQ no problem

Ive been trying to get a set. it rarely goes on classifieds, and when it does, it goes ASAP

reselling is no problem so buying more than you need is an extremely viable option

[GhostofHarry]

So its $14 for 104 Dolch keys?

Yes u are correct

Do you know how soon you will be able to start this GB? I am definitely buying more than one set!

I will start the GB after I get everything confirmed
Including shippings, colour we are gonna order, or keys we are gonna get in the add-on pack

we will hit MOQ no problem

Ive been trying to get a set. it rarely goes on classifieds, and when it does, it goes ASAP

reselling is no problem so buying more than you need is an extremely viable option

Yup

And I don't think I have seen any taihao with ISO and tsangan
If we are going for it     It will definitely be a good buy

[Hak Foo]

I agree with Pacifist's previous suggestion-- the all-inclusive pack-- main kit plus all the addons-- would probably come in near or at twenty dollars.  Cheap enough to be an impulse purchase, and comprehensive enough to eliminate any "Well, I'd buy it but it doesn't fit my 1987 model board with odd spacebar and shifts" complaints.

I could see getting two and I'm sort of trying to switch from MX back to Alps.

[GhostofHarry]

I agree with Pacifist's previous suggestion-- the all-inclusive pack-- main kit plus all the addons-- would probably come in near or at twenty dollars.  Cheap enough to be an impulse purchase, and comprehensive enough to eliminate any "Well, I'd buy it but it doesn't fit my 1987 model board with odd spacebar and shifts" complaints.

I could see getting two and I'm sort of trying to switch from MX back to Alps.

Yup   And it reduces confusions about MOQ
Now everything has MOQ of 500

[GhostofHarry]

Any suggestions about the add-on pack?

Any more keys to add?

Tsangan kit   7x space 1.5x*2 alt and ctrl    With 1x*2 blank keys
ISO kit         ISO enter   1.25x shift   2 blank keys
Stepped capslock   
1.75 shift

[Cottonsox]

I am in for 3 sets,  probably cut back  to 2 sets with addons extra cost being absorbed. Others may be in similar a boat. Is it worth finding out if addon hits moq without combining?

[GhostofHarry]

I think the price of the add on pack that I have stated will be around 4 dollars

And I think if we want easier hitting of moq of add-on pack
We should keep the ordering colour within 4

Last time, Elton's gb is at $8 usd for each set which is a extremely cheap price
And barely hit moq of 500 and 400 for each sets
And this time the price had risen for 75% for the ANSI set only
 
Therefore I expect there will be less orders

If we only go for the 4th generation
The possibility of successfully running this gb will be much higher

Or an alternative is that
We only accept orders for 4th generation at first
And if it goes right and smooth , we add additional colours

[Hak Foo]

That's why I was thinking "eliminate the add-on pack" and just sell a single set that consists of "104 + add-on pack" -- yes, a lot of people will end up with ISO keys they don't need, but the ISO people will have no reason to worry about "what if I sign on and the addon pack doesn't hit MOQ?"  It also makes it a nice choice for people with hybrid boards like the G80-8133 and 8200-- US boards with a semi-ISO layout-- that often lack a good direct replacement.

I don't think the price increase is that big of a deal-- as long as it stays within the current territory.  Considering a full lettered 104 set from Signature Plastics is $78 (based on the price of a main set + numpad set from pimpmykeyboard.com) you can still easily say "Get three Tai Hao sets for the same price!" even if the price rises a few dollars.  Now, it may be a bit more of a concern for people buying a few dozen sets for future resale, but again-- it's still cheaper to stockpile this stuff than SP stuff.

I think this does have some things going for it compared to the first Tai Hao GB:

* The original one was stuck with a lot of technical concerns.  I know when I first saw "7x spacebar" and then "yeah, we can throw some blanks in to get to a conventional bottom row", it was a big turn off.  This is "normal 104, fits almost any modern board, no surprises."

* The quality of the product is now known.  I've not heard anyone have anything particularly bad to say about itheir first-round sets.  Pretty much solves the "too good to be true" price-related concerns.

* The colour schemes are, frankly, a bit more compelling.  They were okay replacements for stock caps, but nobody was saying "I have another group buy set on my board, but I'm all excited to replace it with those".  On the other hand, I'd replace my CCnGs for that Dolch set.

[GhostofHarry]

That's why I was thinking "eliminate the add-on pack" and just sell a single set that consists of "104 + add-on pack" -- yes, a lot of people will end up with ISO keys they don't need, but the ISO people will have no reason to worry about "what if I sign on and the addon pack doesn't hit MOQ?"  It also makes it a nice choice for people with hybrid boards like the G80-8133 and 8200-- US boards with a semi-ISO layout-- that often lack a good direct replacement.

I don't think the price increase is that big of a deal-- as long as it stays within the current territory.  Considering a full lettered 104 set from Signature Plastics is $78 (based on the price of a main set + numpad set from pimpmykeyboard.com) you can still easily say "Get three Tai Hao sets for the same price!" even if the price rises a few dollars.  Now, it may be a bit more of a concern for people buying a few dozen sets for future resale, but again-- it's still cheaper to stockpile this stuff than SP stuff.

I think this does have some things going for it compared to the first Tai Hao GB:

* The original one was stuck with a lot of technical concerns.  I know when I first saw "7x spacebar" and then "yeah, we can throw some blanks in to get to a conventional bottom row", it was a big turn off.  This is "normal 104, fits almost any modern board, no surprises."

* The quality of the product is now known.  I've not heard anyone have anything particularly bad to say about itheir first-round sets.  Pretty much solves the "too good to be true" price-related concerns.

* The colour schemes are, frankly, a bit more compelling.  They were okay replacements for stock caps, but nobody was saying "I have another group buy set on my board, but I'm all excited to replace it with those".  On the other hand, I'd replace my CCnGs for that Dolch set.

yea  i got you

so i think the best way to hold this GB will be combining both 104 and add-on
and we are only going for the 4th generation at the first stage of the GB.
And we will add in other colours according to the popularity from the poll we are now having, as long as the first stage runs smooth

This will be a pretty solid way to make sure this GB will not fail

[Harrowed]

I'm probably pushing it ( ) but with those prices we could try to hit quota for euro-kit as an option... What do you think? If TaiHao could do something like this.

[McWilloughby]

so i think the best way to hold this GB will be combining both 104 and add-on
and we are only going for the 4th generation at the first stage of the GB.
And we will add in other colours according to the popularity from the poll we are now having, as long as the first stage runs smooth

This will be a pretty solid way to make sure this GB will not fail

I think this is probably the best way to run the buy, can't wait

I'm probably pushing it ( ) but with those prices we could try to hit quota for euro-kit as an option... What do you think? If TaiHao could do something like this.

(Attachment Link)

As much as I'd like to have the language specific keys, I don't see this happening as I think TaiHao would have to make some new moulds for the legends (correct me if I'm wrong somebody) and that was quite expensive when they had to do it for the 6.25x spacebar.

[pasph]

so i think the best way to hold this GB will be combining both 104 and add-on
and we are only going for the 4th generation at the first stage of the GB.
And we will add in other colours according to the popularity from the poll we are now having, as long as the first stage runs smooth

This will be a pretty solid way to make sure this GB will not fail

I think this is probably the best way to run the buy, can't wait

I'm probably pushing it ( ) but with those prices we could try to hit quota for euro-kit as an option... What do you think? If TaiHao could do something like this.

(Attachment Link)

As much as I'd like to have the language specific keys, I don't see this happening as I think TaiHao would have to make some new moulds for the legends (correct me if I'm wrong somebody) and that was quite expensive when they had to do it for the 6.25x spacebar.

If this would be possible i'll buy 5 sets but i think it's not likely to happen

[GhostofHarry]

so i think the best way to hold this GB will be combining both 104 and add-on
and we are only going for the 4th generation at the first stage of the GB.
And we will add in other colours according to the popularity from the poll we are now having, as long as the first stage runs smooth

This will be a pretty solid way to make sure this GB will not fail

I think this is probably the best way to run the buy, can't wait

I'm probably pushing it ( ) but with those prices we could try to hit quota for euro-kit as an option... What do you think? If TaiHao could do something like this.

(Attachment Link)

As much as I'd like to have the language specific keys, I don't see this happening as I think TaiHao would have to make some new moulds for the legends (correct me if I'm wrong somebody) and that was quite expensive when they had to do it for the 6.25x spacebar.

If this would be possible i'll buy 5 sets but i think it's not likely to happen

you mean the GB is not likely to happen?
maybe u can tell me ur concerns so that we can work on a solution

[pasph]

No, i meant the Language specific kit

[GhostofHarry]

No, i meant the Language specific kit

i think taihao can only give us blank keys as substitutes

as its doublehshot, u will need a mold for keys with different legend

[Harrowed]

As much as I'd like to have the language specific keys, I don't see this happening as I think TaiHao would have to make some new moulds for the legends (correct me if I'm wrong somebody) and that was quite expensive when they had to do it for the 6.25x spacebar.

Yeah, if they don't have the legends it probably isn't worth it. But it doeasn't hurt to ask if they happen to have already molds for these legends... Probably not though.

[sth]

count my vote for a monolithic kit. this is how the original Red Alert sets (on otd) were run, and a lot more possibilities were afforded because the MOQ was the same across the board, which lowered the cost for many addon keys to an acceptable level.

[genkidama]

Maybe it's possible to get some chinese flavoured keys instead of blank ones? Personally I would like to see something on the keycap than nothing being it a blank keycap. Or how about this kind of twist, a chinese zodiac flavoured set? Although I think 12 extra keycaps are a bit of an overkill. But I just wanted to know if the blank keycaps could be replaced by something nice.

I'll probably buy two as well if this GB goes live. But still I'm curious about the shippings and what happens if you order two sets and taxes and stuff like that. But I know you'll tell us when everything's confirmed.

[sonic_the_hedgehog]

First and foremost, let me say how excited I am about this.

I had to bail somewhat on the last GB for Tai Hao and only ended up with two sets, but I'm fully in for this one (got more boards now than I did then, and more $ too!)

Especially the Caps Lock!! I just posted in the old thread to see if anyone has a solution for it because the Caps Lock that came with the old set doesn't fit my Cherry G80 boards at all (the stepped or not stepped doesn't bother me, I just want it to fit!!)

I will vote in the poll shortly. Now, some thoughts:

The shape of the windows logo is bugging me though...

is the windows key going to look like that?

Looks abit ugly though

I agree, it looks terrible. If we are going to do a tsang / ISO add-on set, or bundle those keys in together, can we also bundle a couple of blank 1x, 1.25x and 1.5x keys please? Considering it should only be an extra few cents per key lol.

At the cheap price of taihao just put everything into one package to hit MOQ super easy

U spoke my mind 

Good plan 

I think the price of the add on pack that I have stated will be around 4 dollars

And I think if we want easier hitting of moq of add-on pack
We should keep the ordering colour within 4

Last time, Elton's gb is at $8 usd for each set which is a extremely cheap price
And barely hit moq of 500 and 400 for each sets
And this time the price had risen for 75% for the ANSI set only
 
Therefore I expect there will be less orders

If we only go for the 4th generation
The possibility of successfully running this gb will be much higher

Or an alternative is that
We only accept orders for 4th generation at first
And if it goes right and smooth , we add additional colours

Hang on. Yes, the price is more expensive, but haven't the MOQ's reduced? From my understanding of your OP, for every generation on offer, for anything in stock the MOQ is 100 sets, and for anything out of stock, it's 300 sets.

The price may have risen by about 50-75%, but the MOQ has reduced by nearly 50% in the case of MOQ=300, and has reduced by like 80% in the case of MOQ=100.

As someone else mentioned, as long as the ballpark price is still sub-$15, this is a great deal. Not to mention:
 - a lot of people missed out on the first GB. This time, they will snap them up quick cos they've seen how fast they're now selling in the classifieds.
 - there is a dolch set, which will hit MOQ in like 20 minutes. It's already way out in front in the poll.
 - these colours are much more enticing. The first gen was fun for $8, but aside from the black, and for special projects, the colours were a bit useles.
 - the fact that there is a possibility of tsang / ISO means a lot more people will go for it.
 - DOLCH SET AVAILABLE!
 - many of the glitches (space bars / stepped Caps Lock etc) from the first gen have been ironed out.
 - did I mention... dolch set?
 - KeyPop might go in for a few sets again, based on how many he ordered last time? Maybe contact him to see if he is aware of this GB?

and we are only going for the 4th generation at the first stage of the GB.

Please please please don't limit to 4th gen initially. That Azure set is simply beautiful, especially when you see the other pics of it. Go with whatever the top 4 are at the end of the poll?

Or is there a really good reason to limit to 4th gen that I missed?

Anyway thank you so much for your effort dealing with Tai Hao so far, I'm confident this is going to be a huge success!     

[Cottonsox]

4th gen are currently the top picks. I assume thay was the reasoning.

[whiskytango]

@GhostofHarry: I personally am leaning toward only including the later generation stuff and not duplicating the first TH group buy for first gen colors, but would you consider running just the add-on kits for the original colors? The original sets were missing windows keys and menu key. You could also run the ISO/tsangan add-on in the original colors. Make it all one kit as a sort of "upgrade" set for the original colors.

[Linkbane]

Would definitely go for an Azure, or Granite if it's not available.

[HairyBob]

I am also interested in an azure set, as well as a fourth gen set.

[CommonCurt]

I'm also interested in a Azure set.  That and two sets of Olivetti.