[IC] JD40 40% boards: metal, plastic, and a celebration of smallfry's life

[Vibex]

the only thing i have a 100% solid price on is the material cost and tooling and per piece cost of the sorbothane gasket. i can tell you that at 50pcs, we're looking at a little over 2000$ for tooling and materials so far. i'm going to need to make the first payment on this next week, so i am actively trying to work out a total cost as well as come up with margin for donation to the NJW foundation so that we can officially start the group buy and start taking orders. i should be able to get a number on the cuts on tuesday from my waterjet guy, and JD and I need to powow on the PCB cost. that should be basically the entire picture, as long as we go with bumpons, so cross fingers, the GB will start next week.

#Hype

[mkawa]

huge thanks to the sorbothane people, by the way, who gave me a discounted quote when i mentioned that our product was for charity. as some may know, i've been talking to them on and off about keyboard applications and they've always been incredibly helpful.

[jdcarpe]

Can you clarify as to what challenges there are that may pose frustrating for a beginner?

1. The silkscreen is only on the front of the PCB, but the diodes, Teensy, and USB connector need to be soldered onto the back side of the PCB.

2. The solder pads for the diodes are somewhat small, and need care and extra time with the tip of your iron to ensure good heat transfer, thereby ensuring a solid solder joint.

3. The Teensy needs to be soldered flush with the PCB. Spacers must be removed from the pins before soldering the Teensy on, as with the Phantom.

4. The USB connector on the top edge of the PCB needs to be connected electrically to the connector on the Teensy. This means soldering a jumper cable/wires from the USB connector to pads on the PCB, similar to how it's done on the ErgoDox.

I would probably classify the difficulty of assembly as being very similar to that of the ErgoDox.

[mkawa]

why don't we just silkscreen and pad the back of the pcb, add a couple mm of thickness to the gasket and build in a proper ground plane and vcc rail?

[AKmalamute]

why don't we just silkscreen and pad the back of the pcb, add a couple mm of thickness to the gasket and build in a proper ground plane and vcc rail?

Those would delay the project as a whole, and while not yet on a timeline GBs do tend to run over time and over budget.

But of those, I think the VCC rail offers the greatest frustration-reducing ROI, as dismantling a USB cable for the ergodox is less than satisfying.

The silkscreen thing just means you have to flip back and forth a bunch to verify which goes where but once you remember "all the diodes go to the left" then you don't really have to remember until your next soldering session. Of course, it would hardly (I assume?) add to the cost of production of new boards, and of the current revision, there aren't any already produced, right? So that would be the simplest improvement.

Having removed the spacer from both my phantom project and the ergodox as well, I'd personally say that a thinner board is a more beautiful board. Don't worry about padding just to let the Teensy stand all the way up; I didn't on either of the first two things I ever soldered together, and it wasn't that hard.

[/IMHO]

[Melvang]

Will the diodes for this be through hole or surface mount?

[BlueBär]

Will the diodes for this be through hole or surface mount?

Through hole.

[mkawa]

talked with JD and there's no way we can change the PCB to make it any friendlier. that said, it's not actually all that tricky, so i would not say it's a big deal.

regarding ordering, i am just waiting for the waterjet to quote me and then we're off.

[tbc]

#winning

all excite.

[crash]

Interested in a 40% PCB and the possibility of an Aluminum plate.(?)

Just getting into Mechanicals and $200 is a bit steep for me with trying to save for tuition. (although it is for a good cause) I'm looking for a project board to DIY, and a 40% seems like 40% of the work of a full TKL or something. (and just a fun form-factor to play with)

[mkawa]

the price should almost certainly come in way under 200 even with donation. i'm going to bug my waterjet guy again for a quote in a minute, but i am trying to get pre-orders up on the store as soon as possible to get this show on the road, and i'm hoping to get things going today, as the rest of my week is completely booked.

[Melvang]

Is the op updated with the current correct items in the kit?

[mkawa]

now it is

[Melvang]

Cool thanks

[tjweir]

Sad to lose the red-on-red keys, but still getting one.

[Melvang]

Yup I gotta pull the trigger on this one.  Will be interesting going from full size down to a 40.

[berserkfan]

I'll pass as I really don't want or need a 40%.

But you have my support. And if this is successful and you do a bigger (at least TKL) version, I'll probably be supporting that.

smallfry deserves to be remembered.

[hwood34]

Super don't need this. Super in

[mkawa]

the problem with TKLs is that they're a little too big for our material size. yield is low, so each keyboard is going to be pretty darn expensive. there's nothing else really stopping a TKL version though.

60% will probably be next.

[mkawa]

i am extremely tired of waiting to be quoted out on the waterjet cut. if i don't get a number by tomorrow i'm going to call it at 130 per kit. i'm 99% sure this will cover costs and make for a sizable donation to the NJW foundation.

[Pacifist]

$130 sounds good

[tjweir]

$130 sounds good

Yes, well within the upper bound i had in mind.  Awesome. 

[Zeal]

$130 sounds good

Yes, well within the upper bound i had in mind.  Awesome.

Agreed, considering the 40% removable switch top plate cost 70% of this whole assembly.

[Pacifist]

Will be a nice conversation starter. When can we start ordering?

[Grendel]

i am extremely tired of waiting to be quoted out on the waterjet cut. if i don't get a number by tomorrow i'm going to call it at 130 per kit. i'm 99% sure this will cover costs and make for a sizable donation to the NJW foundation.

 

[Pacifist]

Apart from switches, what else do we need? Also does the jd40 support LED?

[mkawa]

i'm going to try to get a number out of my cutter tomorrow. if i can't, i'm going to price the product on geekhackers.org, put it up and you will be able to start ordering by tomorrow EOD. if i do manage to talk to him and it comes up high (worst case), then i might have to do a bit of thinking on how to lower costs. i suspect i will be able to talk to him and he'll give me a quote in the ballpark i've been predicting, in which case, you will be able to start ordering as soon as i price the product, give it a description and some pictures and get it up on geekhackers.org

re: LEDs. no, the current PCB does not support LEDs. that does not rule out the possibility of a board with the same layout and form factor with LEDs in the future, however.

as for parts you will need, expect to buy switches, diodes, potentially a small number of resistors and a mini usb female jack, stabilizers, and keycaps that fit the layout. we will make a bill of materials available that will allow you to purchase almost all of these parts from either newark, digikey or mouser in a few clicks.

note above that i have not priced the stabilizers into the kit. i may be able to sell these separately, but i will have to look into it. in the meantime, they are available from several popular geekhack retailers. for, as far as i know, pretty reasonable prices.

i have also not priced the teensy into the kit. i will be selling the teensy separately, as there are a bunch of teensies running around due to jdcarpe's recent buy, and i don't want to make people buy an extra teensy. i will also provide a small piece of hookup wire with the pcb that can be used to connect the USB data line to the teensy.

i will NOT be providing construction services, only kits. we WILL write up instructions on constructing the keyboard, with pictures, maybe some video, etc.

[tbc]

i don't really get stabs...

will the spacebar stab i salvaged from a g80-3000 work on this board?

not too sure about pcb mounted vs plate mounted.  I would guess that plate mounted requires a plate and pcb mounted requires the cutout in the pcb.

[Pacifist]

sounds good. I've got plenty of plate and pcb stabs and a teensy from jd's buy, just need a better soldering setup for the smd work on the usb

[Yslen]

$130 is a very good price, lower than I was expecting

I'm a little bit worried about the SMD work etc. as my soldering expertise is minimal. The idea was that by building this board myself I would learn a bit more, but I'm wondering if it might be too big of a jump from switch / led soldering. I suppose I can just ask Margon if I decide it's too much for me

[mkawa]

there is no SMD work on this board

edit: actually, the mini USB might need to use SMD pads. not sure about that one.

[jdcarpe]

^ Nope. Everything is thru hole.

[Yslen]

<dances in celebration>

[Pacifist]

ooooohhhh yesssss

[crash]

AWESOME! Even more good news! I'm excited!

[Pacifist]

Hopefully this can all be assembled by the time I go on a trip in a month

[mkawa]

made contact with the WJ. he can't use the two-headed cutter for this job. unsure on costs. he indicated that this would bring up cut costs quite a bit.

[Zeal]

made contact with the WJ. he can't use the two-headed cutter for this job. unsure on costs. he indicated that this would bring up cut costs quite a bit.

Bad news? Back to ~$200 price point?

[Pacifist]

 

[aquazare]

Hm, that's bad but i'll pay almost anything for a 40%

[mkawa]

we're unlikely to hit 200. 150 possibly. i'm assuming a Q of 30 units. less than that and not only with the NJW foundation not get a donation, but i will be set to lose a large amount of money as well.

[Pacifist]

$150 is still good. I think we can hit that 30

[mkawa]

quote is in. slightly higher than i thought. i think we can safely do 159. can i get some thoughts on this? at this price i'd like to move 40 units

[aquazare]

159 is an ok price,  i'll probaly buy one

[Melvang]

quote is in. slightly higher than i thought. i think we can safely do 159. can i get some thoughts on this? at this price i'd like to move 40 units

I am in at that price.

[Jrwestcoast]

I am in also

[SpAmRaY]

How much extra is shipping going to be?

[mashby]

Still in.

[Zeal]

Still in. Interested in seeing how the female mini usb will be through hole though.

[Pacifist]

still in, lets get this started